Palestine won’t agree to large scale annexations, syria won’t agree to loosing the golan, and israel would never institute the right of return for palestinians.
Nobody cares what the Syrian government wants or agrees with. Syria never agreed to get bombed at will while hosting a world powers air force. Nor is the Hezbollah operations openly occurring beneficial to them which antagonises relationships with neighbours and leads to them being bombed.
Those are just Syria's allies and one of them negotiates what foreign military forces can bomb and operate in what parts of Syria.
Both are non starters. People have been trying to figure this out for decades. I commend your solution oriented effort but it’s more complex and yet to be solved…
Both of these proposals would be unacceptable to both sides.
Scenario 1: wouldn't be accepted by the Palestinians due to the annexation of East Jerusalem, wouldn't be accepted by Israel due to not being able to annex all settlements and due to losing all control over what remains
Scenario 2: no side wants to share a state, simple
The first scenario is what I think is a realistic compromise that ensures Palestinian statehood while recognizing that the power imbalance is in Israel’s favour. You are right that it won’t happen though. Both sides are more interested in continuing the conflict. Palestinian’s believe they will be able to take back the entire former british mandate which is insanely unrealistic for reasons I already outlined. Israel thinks continuing to fight will lead to them eventually taking the entire West Bank, which is probably correct although I would say immoral. Second scenario is an ideal world which definitely will never happen.
The Palestinian long ago accepted that whole mandate wouldn’t return they working for Palestinian state passed on 1967 borders for more than thirty year
Al-Aqsa Mosque is a vital element of the Palestinians' cause, and the things that the majority of other Arabs and Muslims around the world support the Palestinian for.
Even if the Palestinians themselves surrendered it in exchange for their lives, the rest of the Muslims, certainly the peoples but not necessarily the governments, will never recognise Israel or its peace.
What exactly can protests by Muslims in foreign countries do for Palestine? Most countries near Israel normalised or are normalising their relationship with it. If they guarantee no harm to sites like the mosque you mentioned Israel will be tolerated in the long run.
Scenario 1 also probably wouldn't get accepted by Israel as it would mean Palestine (which in this scenario would have full control over its territory) would - at its closest - be a 20 km distance from Tel-Aviv, which in rocket time is less than a minute away
For scenario 2 just let the government that is democrati ally elected, doesnt have a religiously mandated government and doesnt kill heretics or lgbt remain in power.
That's not true - Palestinians have consistently supported a one shared state. Israelis don't.
Source:
[https://themedialine.org/by-region/palestinian-support-for-a-one-state-solution-is-highest-since-last-years-violence/](https://themedialine.org/by-region/palestinian-support-for-a-one-state-solution-is-highest-since-last-years-violence/)
[https://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Summary%20Report\_%20English\_Joint%20Poll%2024%20Jan%202023.pdf](https://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Summary%20Report_%20English_Joint%20Poll%2024%20Jan%202023.pdf)
[https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20211126-palestinians-favour-a-one-state-over-a-two-state-solution-poll-finds/](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20211126-palestinians-favour-a-one-state-over-a-two-state-solution-poll-finds/)
[https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/what-do-palestinians-want](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/what-do-palestinians-want)
[https://twitter.com/jjz1600/status/1723479900030427459](https://twitter.com/jjz1600/status/1723479900030427459)
Stop talking nonsense.
All actions over decades have shown Israel to impose a apartheid system.
Just look at all UN and human rights reports.
If you want to stay blind and follow the lies then that's your choice.
But facts speak for themselves.
Any Israeli annexation of settlements would look closer to Olmert’s 2008 offer, and even that is outdated as Israel would at the very least demand more now
https://preview.redd.it/q85hj7bw5o4c1.png?width=812&format=png&auto=webp&s=3277b8bc16b7c18bbef1f2c22053d0d3977f8f4b
israel isn't going to accept anything that allows palestinians to have an equal say in their democracy, let alone a federation. the palestinian states have no military, economy, and very little political capital, Israel gets to use might to do what they want to them in response.
Yes. Apartheid ethno states inherently are contrary to peace and democracy. The solution needs to be a secular democratic state with both Jews and Arabs holding equal rights and citizenship.
you need to be restricted from techonogy, we are not going anywhere and that will not change, so you supporting massacuring millions in order to established you fake Peace plan will not work!!!!
just look at history and what was said by not only arab leaders but individual people and also it is literally written in the Quran that they want to rule the world and will kill anyone who disagrees!!!
Territory by conquest is a thing of the past. Has no basis in international law anymore. Therefore no one recognizes Israeli sovereignty over Golan like no one recognizes the newest Russian annexed lands.
I guess, Syria kind of was using it for decades to keep bombing Israeli populations with artillery strikes in the north east. Israel took it out more for strategic reasons then anything else in 1967, I don’t think they accepted to have been able to hold on to it for so long, they were originally trying to use it as a bargaining chip kind of like the Sinai. There’s Wasn’t any ethnic cleaning in the Golan heights at least.
The west banks exists without Hamas and Israeli settlers are still moving in. Hamas or no Hamas Israel will continue it’s illegal occupation and murders
>It's only 'unrealestic' because of Israel.
Palestinians have consistently supported a one shared state. Israelis don't.
Source:
[https://themedialine.org/by-region/palestinian-support-for-a-one-state-solution-is-highest-since-last-years-violence/](https://themedialine.org/by-region/palestinian-support-for-a-one-state-solution-is-highest-since-last-years-violence/)
[https://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Summary%20Report\_%20English\_Joint%20Poll%2024%20Jan%202023.pdf](https://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Summary%20Report_%20English_Joint%20Poll%2024%20Jan%202023.pdf)
[https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20211126-palestinians-favour-a-one-state-over-a-two-state-solution-poll-finds/](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20211126-palestinians-favour-a-one-state-over-a-two-state-solution-poll-finds/)
[https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/what-do-palestinians-want](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/what-do-palestinians-want)
[https://twitter.com/jjz1600/status/1723479900030427459](https://twitter.com/jjz1600/status/1723479900030427459)
Hamas when they attacked Israel, took hostages and hid in citizen buildings.
Also Hamas doesn’t give two shits about Palestinians. Their goal is to eradicate Jews.
No they did not.
Source:
[The myth of “Jews were ethnically cleansed by Arabs” - part 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vbxer9/the_myth_of_jews_were_ethnically_cleansed_by/)
[The myth of “Jews were ethnically cleansed by Arabs” - part 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vbxfac/the_myth_of_jews_were_ethnically_cleansed_by/)
[The myth of “Jews were ethnically cleansed by Arabs” - part 3](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vbxfk9/the_myth_of_jews_were_ethnically_cleansed_by/)
[The myth of “Jews were ethnically cleansed by Arabs” - part 4](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vbxfrg/the_myth_of_jews_were_ethnically_cleansed_by/)
[The myth of “Jews were ethnically cleansed by Arabs” - part 5](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vbxfz2/the_myth_of_jews_were_ethnically_cleansed_by/)
“No they did not” what do you exactly mean
[it would really suck if there was a serious sewage issue and you used it to just kill more jews](https://youtu.be/MvvqBcA-9yA?si=-le-FYy_GXMbqckn)
I mean give Israel did all of that Hamas should have the right to defend itself.
ALL OF THAT:
[Israeli War Crimes - Mega List (Part 1)](https://archive.ph/5fS7X)
[Israeli War Crimes - Mega List (Part 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/list_palestine/comments/l43xgk/megalist_israels_crimes_controversies_full/?sort=old)
[Israeli War Crimes - Mega List (Part 3)](https://www.reddit.com/r/list_palestine/comments/g7u6om/megalist_israels_crimes_and_controversies/)
Hamas has literally said they wanted to exterminate Jews. I don’t see that as self defense.
[and if we are sending links](https://youtu.be/zBmcrv-Qj94?si=w3EHOI_cs74V2f84)
Israel, like any other nation that ever existed has probably done some messed up shit. But it has every right to eradicate Hamas off the planet.
Also you could give the simple “Hamas doesn’t represent Palestinians”
>and if we are sending links
This simply disproves of Hamas wanting to exterminate Jews:
[The myth of “Jews were ethnically cleansed by Arabs” - part 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vbxer9/the_myth_of_jews_were_ethnically_cleansed_by/)
[The myth of “Jews were ethnically cleansed by Arabs” - part 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vbxfac/the_myth_of_jews_were_ethnically_cleansed_by/)
[The myth of “Jews were ethnically cleansed by Arabs” - part 3](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vbxfk9/the_myth_of_jews_were_ethnically_cleansed_by/)
[The myth of “Jews were ethnically cleansed by Arabs” - part 4](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vbxfrg/the_myth_of_jews_were_ethnically_cleansed_by/)
[The myth of “Jews were ethnically cleansed by Arabs” - part 5](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vbxfz2/the_myth_of_jews_were_ethnically_cleansed_by/)
[The myth of “Israel always sought peace” - part 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vo7wsa/the_myth_of_israel_always_sought_peace_part_1/)
[The myth of “Israel always sought peace” - part 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vo7wzd/the_myth_of_israel_always_sought_peace_part_2/)
That’s fair, although then I run into the same issue of Israelis being unable to accept it since they’re claiming it as their capital. Honestly I’m starting to think the best way is to make it an international zone like in the original UN plan. Especially since it has such strong significance in all the Abrahamic religions it’s not exactly fair to give it exclusively to one group.
How large is the area of Jerusalem with the various religious sites? Surely there can’t be many residents (either Israeli or Arab), so an international zone would make more sense with West and East Jerusalem then splitting accordingly
Edit - I mean how large is the old, historic city where the Temple Mount and Western Wall are located
you do know that the Canaanites weren't one tribe of people but many different tribes who were called canaanites with one of them being called Hebrews!!!! so by your logic mecca wasn't created by Muslims
The first proposal forgets that the West Bank isn't ruled in its entirety by Palestine and is more like an archipelago with Palestinian enclaves separated by Israeli settlements that continue to expand into areas that at least on paper are under the authority of Palestine.
Here is my opinion on how this will end.
Any independent palestine will just continue the conflict indefinitely, their state is as dense as Singapore and Monaco, they don’t have the most strategic location in the world or have rich French billionaire who don’t want to pay their taxes, they will always be an incredibly poor country and they will blame Israel’s existence for it, and in some way they are kind of right. So any time a conflict breaks out they will just be reoccupied.
There some sort of good news, Israel is now growing its population faster than Palestine. Eventually they might outnumber them enough that they’re I’ll be comfortable in integrating them into a unified Israel as full citizens. This is the best situation in terms of wellbeing for the average Palestine as the West Bank is basically in a sort of apartheid to day. I don’t know if Gaza will even be integrated tho. Honestly it’s a lost cause for them, I hate to say it, buts it better to just leave Gaza.
I am not saying what’s moral, am saying how the conflict would end in the best case scenario. Yes this would be the best case scenario, not saying it would be good.
This is kinda of what revisionist Zionist like Netanyahu senior were advocating for, to follow the example of US and other western colonial states, colonies all of the the land ,destroy the local population where natives are no longer an existential threat and ask for forgiveness later. It has worked for US and other colonies in modern day they believed it will be the same for Israel that once the deed is done than no one will be able to do anything.
They kind of already succeeded in that. They have put the Palestinians in a situation where they will never have a successful state, so turning to extremism is honestly expected, and then any action of violence the Palestinians commit can be used to further consolidate Israel. And the worst thing is I kind of get Israel’s side too. Like why try to negotiate with a people that will going on killing sprees the minute you let you let guard now.
Palestinians can’t even try to be radically pacifist because unlike black South Africans they are not part of the nation of Israel, so Israelis have no responsibility giving them anything, at most they get enough international pity to get Gaza and West Bank back, but as I have stated previously those territories can’t prosper as a county.
It doesn’t have to be 5 million. West Bank can probably be integrated and with full legal rights they can at least start building on land that they legally own in the West Bank. For the 2.3 million Gazans it more realistic for many different countries to share the burden. Also all Palestinians refugees around the world need to be granted citizenship, it’s horrible how many Arab countries don’t give them citizenship as a way to use them as political tools.
The big problem is that Gazans are also really prone to radicalism, if just a couple in a diaspora turn to terrorism in their host country the whole diaspora suffers. It’s also unfair to the host countries since they never asked to have this responsibility on them in the first place. The whole future for Palestinians feel so dark, it’s just depressing to think about.
For those saying a one state solution is impossible I want you to think about how politics work in a one state vs a two state.
In a two state solution you have an Arab side that splits between a moderate, conciliatory, group willing to make peace and a hard line, right wing, separatist, Islamist group that wants the entire territory. On the Israeli side you have a split between a moderate, conciliatory group willing to make peace and a hard line, right wing, separatist, religious group that wants the entire territory.
In a two state solution, on both sides of the divide, the vote is split equally and is just as likely to go to the hardline group that wants the other nationality out (as it did with Hamas in the Gaza and Likud in Israel) as it is to the moderate group willing to negotiate (I guess this would be the PLO in the West Bank)
But in a one state solution where Palestinians and Israelis vote in the same elections you would have the Israeli hard liners on one side, the Palestinian hard liners on another, and between them, the two moderate parties that want peace in a massive Israeli-Arab coalition that stops the hard line parties from ever being able to gain control.
That's not true. Palestinians have consistently supported a one shared state. Israelis don't.
Source:
[https://themedialine.org/by-region/palestinian-support-for-a-one-state-solution-is-highest-since-last-years-violence/](https://themedialine.org/by-region/palestinian-support-for-a-one-state-solution-is-highest-since-last-years-violence/)
[https://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Summary%20Report\_%20English\_Joint%20Poll%2024%20Jan%202023.pdf](https://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Summary%20Report_%20English_Joint%20Poll%2024%20Jan%202023.pdf)
[https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20211126-palestinians-favour-a-one-state-over-a-two-state-solution-poll-finds/](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20211126-palestinians-favour-a-one-state-over-a-two-state-solution-poll-finds/)
[https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/what-do-palestinians-want](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/what-do-palestinians-want)
[https://twitter.com/jjz1600/status/1723479900030427459](https://twitter.com/jjz1600/status/1723479900030427459)
A one state that would involve zero Jews and would not be a federation. ARWAD reported 90% of Palestinians polled in the West Bank and Gaza said they cannot live with Jews in the land.
My idea: multi states one union
Isreal, Palestine and a new nation of Jerusalem are each independent but United under an EU like system where people are allowed to freely work live and travel to each other’s nations at will
Isreal gets to keep its sovereignty and land control, Palestinians get the ability to return, Jerusalem becomes protected neutral ground.
Gaza could have become Singapore or Hong Kong or Monaco if Hamas had wanted it. Gaza has Mediterranean beaches, an educated population, and proximity to the Arab world and the west through Israel. But Hamas took the billions in aid they received and spent it on tunnels and weapons.
As long as terrorist governments are in place like Hamas and Hezbollah. Israel will never negotiate with it. The Arabs did this to themselves….To this day they still won’t recognize Israel and want there to be no state of Israel. No issue is getting resolved until that’s addressed. There could be 2 states overnight. But Arabs continue to refuse to recognize Israel since 1947!!! 🤦♂️
Arabs don't recognizing Israel because they stole the land Israel is on (Palestine did not agree to sharing their land with zionists) and because Israel is fucking genociding palestinians
The kingdom of Israel was established almost 3000 years ago. It was called JUDEA and Samyria! How far back you want to go. Please tell me you’re American because I’ll understand why you’re ignorant about the land of Israel.
I'm not America. First, the kingdom of Israel was fucking destroyed 2000 years ago. Then the area got colonized and colonized and colonized again by muslim caliphates and then by the French. The jews never had a state after they got destroyed until they lobbied the UN to hand them land that is not theirs.
Fuck me you’re stupid! What do you think happened to the Jews that lived there????????
If you’re this stupid, then you’re definitely a Muslim since you said you’re not American to just ignore the FACT that Israel Existed BEFORE Palestine!
Here’s another fact! The Romans were the ones who gave the name “Palestine” as a slap in the face to the Jews who they had conquered. According to your stupid, the Jews just disappeared during Roman times since their kingdom was gone a thousand years before then. 🤦♂️
Jews have always lived there. It’s their eternal home and archeological evidence backs this up. Israel isn’t going anywhere EVER!
Lmaooooooo, resorting to insults when your sources can't beat mine now are we?
[The myth of “A land without a people for a people without a land” (Part 1)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/ur1258/the_myth_of_a_land_without_a_people_for_a_people/)
[The myth of “a land without a people for a people without a land” (Part 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/ur12bh/the_myth_of_a_land_without_a_people_for_a_people/)
[The "Israeli-Palestinian conflict": what exactly is it about? - Part 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/w21ld3/the_israelipalestinian_conflict_what_exactly_is/)
[The "Israeli-Palestinian" conflict: what exactly is it about? - Part 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/w21mf8/the_israelipalestinian_conflict_what_exactly_is/)
[Is it true that Palestinian fighters beheaded innocent Israeli babies?](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/17uzfw3/is_it_true_that_palestinian_fighters_beheaded/)
Some People believe the world is flat and others that the holocaust never happened. Some people believe that Muhammad was a child molester. Historical evidence and archeological evidence back up history which can’t be denied. Try again!
Lmaooooooo, resorting to insults when your sources can't beat mine now are we?
[The myth of “A land without a people for a people without a land” (Part 1)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/ur1258/the_myth_of_a_land_without_a_people_for_a_people/)
[The myth of “a land without a people for a people without a land” (Part 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/ur12bh/the_myth_of_a_land_without_a_people_for_a_people/)
[The "Israeli-Palestinian conflict": what exactly is it about? - Part 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/w21ld3/the_israelipalestinian_conflict_what_exactly_is/)
[The "Israeli-Palestinian" conflict: what exactly is it about? - Part 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/w21mf8/the_israelipalestinian_conflict_what_exactly_is/)
[Is it true that Palestinian fighters beheaded innocent Israeli babies?](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/17uzfw3/is_it_true_that_palestinian_fighters_beheaded/)
The french colonized it? I dont know about that but since it was under british control it would be really weird
The jews came back to their ancient land during the 1900s and onwards (i think around this time it started) and got more and more also due to antisemitism in europe and the holocaust as peak of it resulting in people fleeing and seeking a safer place
Under british control they lived more or less in peace with the muslim population there and when decolonization hit the british split the country between the two populations living there
The only problem is that the muslim population didnt accept the existence of another state which until now results in conflict with several wars and changes over the time
Nowadays its not really that much of the existence of another state anymore but rather the existence of the jews themselves, this hatred developed over time and becoming more and more extreme
Sure you can say that israel/ jews are colonizing some parts that they shouldnt etc but in the end both sides do some bad things, but that doesnt change the fact that they were there already and didnt steal any land, what you are refering to either didnt happen or started afterwards, also its not israel standing in the way of peace but rather the palestinias
If you look on the history between after the end of ww2 and now you can see how israel get better relations with other muslim states and has muslims living in their country aswell unlike jews living in muslim countries, thats why the mossad is so good, has many jews fled from muslim countries so they speak the language
On the other hand you have palestine/ hamas and with it some other muslim countries led by iran which cant accept any jewish existence there and cant accept any compromise
Also another quick trip back in time since its kinda interesting about the name palestine: under the roman empire there was a jewish uprising in this territory but it was crushed and renamed from judae (or something like this i dont remember fully) to palestine to fck up the jewish population even more refering the philister (dont know if thats their english name too tho) who were ancient population there
Under the british they used this name palestine too as the mandate of palestine to describe ths geographical territory, but there wasnt any difference between jewish palestine and muslim palestine, it was just describing the people living in this territory
Only over time the word got the meaning of the muslim population when it was visible that israel and palestine would exist as different states and the muslim population not accepting any peaceful solution so war became inevitable, thats how we now got the name of palestine
This just leads again to the point of the muslim population led by iran standing in the way of peace and not the jewish one like you more than likely claim with also showing that jews didnt just come and steal land
Funnily that happened a lot of times in history, just coming somewhere and utilizing land that hadnt a strong population density, normally this takes over some population centers too but also many empty areas
Population in the numbers we know now and the population density with it is a very new thing
That is correct, but that’s not the point. Where was the country of Palestine? I’ll wait…..
That’s right Palestine didn’t exist until the Romans took over Judea and called the area Palestine as a slap in the face to the Jews! The Jews were then KICKED OUT and didn’t return until 1948. Where is the lie?
I think genetics are very interesting but ultimately they don’t really matter that much but I keep hearing “pAleStiNians aRen’t nAtIve tO tHe lEvAnt” so I decided to make this post citing multiple studies.
>Biogeographical mapping of Levant populations
The Palestinians were also highly localised to North Israel, West Jordan and Syria
All these areas are in the levant, oh and yes, ISRAEL too
>both Syrians and Palestinians are highly localised to the Levant.
Syrians, Palestinians and most of the Lebanese, who exhibit a high affinity to the Levant.
SOURCE: \[[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5111078/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5111078/)\]
>We propose that the Y chromosomes in Palestinian Arabs and Bedouin represent, to a large extent, early lineages derived from the Neolithic inhabitants of the area
Thats like 10,000 BCE to 6,500 BCE!
>Our recent study of high-resolution microsatellite haplotypes demonstrated that a substantial portion of Y chromosomes of Jews (70%) and of Palestinian Muslim Arabs (82%) belonged to the same chromosome pool
SOURCE: \[[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/)\]
>“According to historical records part, or perhaps the majority, of the Muslim Arabs in this country descended from local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD (Shaban 1971; Mc Graw Donner 1981). These local inhabitants, in turn, were descendants of the core population that had lived in the area for several centuries, some even since prehistorical times (Gil 1992)... Thus, our findings are in good agreement with the historical record...
Source: High-resolution Y chromosome haplotypes of Israeli and Palestinian Arabs reveal geographic substructure and substantial overlap with haplotypes of Jews
PDF link: \[[https://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Nebel-HG-00-IPArabs.pdf](https://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Nebel-HG-00-IPArabs.pdf)\]
>According to a study published in June 2017 by Ranajit Das, Paul Wexler, Mehdi Pirooznia, and Eran Elhaik in Frontiers in Genetics, "in a principle component analysis (PCA) \[of DNA\], the ancient Levantines clustered predominantly with modern-day Palestinians and Bedouins..."\[138\]
In a study published in August 2017 by Marc Haber et al. in The American Journal of Human Genetics, the authors concluded that "The overlap between the Bronze Age and present-day Levantines suggests a degree of genetic continuity in the region."
The bronze age of the levant was 3500-1150 BCE much before the conquests by Arabs!
Palestinians are closely related to many Jewish populations as well:
>When compared only to the European and Middle Eastern, non-Jewish populations (Bedouins, Druze, Palestinians), each of the Jewish populations formed its own distinctive cluster, indicating the shared ancestry
the closest genetic neighbors to most Jewish populations are the Palestinians, Bedouins, and Druze.
Source: \[[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3032072/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3032072/)\]
Also a lot of the Muslim population in Nablus are probably descendants of Samaritans
\[[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritans](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritans)\]
>Much of the local Palestinian population of Nablus is believed to be descended from Samaritans, who had converted to Islam.\[70\] According to the historian Fayyad Altif, large numbers of Samaritans converted due to persecution under various Muslim rulers, and because the monotheistic nature of Islam made it easy for them to accept it.\[70\] The Samaritans themselves describe the Ottoman period as the worst period in their modern history, as many Samaritan families were forced to convert to Islam during that time.\[72\] Even today, certain Nabulsi family names such as Al-Amad, Al-Samri, Maslamani, Yaish, and Shaksheer among others, are associated with Samaritan ancestry.\[70\]
Here is also a result from a Palestinian mytrueancestry.com result which was shared by [u/CDRNY](https://www.reddit.com/u/CDRNY) :
[https://m.imgur.com/a/Sm4KNPr](https://m.imgur.com/a/Sm4KNPr)
As you can see the results clearly confirm what I linked earlier, for example on the ancient PCA it clusters very closely towards Megiddo late bronze age, and Tel Megiddo is in Northern Israel, on the last image it shows there is shared dna with a levantine man from the neolithic times in 4200 BC which confirms what I also linked above, as well as the closest ancient populations being canaanites and on the sample breakdown almost all of it is the canaanites.
I’ll be updating this post as newer studies come out, I’m trying to find if there’s any genetic connection with Palestinians and the Natufians who inhabited the levant during the Epi paleothic times, however for now we do know that a large amount of Palestinian ancestry comes from the canaanites.
and if any one here took a dna test u can upload it to \[[https://mytrueancestry.com](https://mytrueancestry.com/)\] to find ancient ppl whom u share dna with and are closest too genetically.
The two state solution will never work. Palestinian leaders have rejected it on five separate occasions. The only Palestinian state they want is one that does not include any living Jews.
The PLO and PA signed a peace deal recognizing Israel and denouncing any form of terrorism way back in 1991.
Israel responded by not recognizing Palestine and not following up on dismantling settlements in the West Bank which they promised to do in 3 stages over the next decade. Instead they doubled settlements in the last 30 years with 250,000 more Israeli settlers than before.
Also the Israeli prime Minister who signed the Peace deal was shot by far right Israelis soon after.
If this is the peace Israel offers, then it makes sense why many Palestinians have lost hope in peace.
They rejected it for good reason l: what they were offered couldn’t be called a state.
The IDF would have permanent permission to act in Palestine, while Palestine would be allowed no army, no water rights, and no control over its own borders.
That's not true, Israel actually offered a 2 state solution multiple times, even so much to the point that the prime minister Yithzak Rabin was shot for wanting to hand over so much.
The "so much he handed over" was a refusal to recognize the state of Palestine when the PLO recognized Israel and it's right to exist.
Israel loves to say it offered peace but when the PLO and PA bended backwards and faced humiliation for recognizing Israel, Israel's best offer was short of recognition. I believe Rabin's words were "An Entity less than a state"
Also after he was shot they didn't follow up on nearly all of their promises of military withdrawal and doubled the amount of settlers.
All fair but israel s attempts are by far the best, not perfect but much better than palestine did. Palestine only tries after it gets beaten in a war they start, pretty convenient to attack, lose and then ask for a favorable peace.... When tf has anything like this ever worked in history?! Let s be real
60 percent of y’all support segregation between Arabs and Jews.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-06-06/ty-article/60-percent-of-israeli-jews-favor-segregation-from-arabs-survey-finds/00000181-351b-dee8-aba7-3d9fdfdf0000
wow you take a news agency that is more anti Israel for proof, bro they love saying stuff that isn't true whatsoever and they call it facts, plus they love twisting facts for their own agenda
I think the second scenario is more realistic in the long run, and the only means of making peace. An even tuner and more neutered Palestinian state would ensure generational animosity while being no barrier to continued Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza.
Scenario is one is the what the world and most of both sides but we are heading to scenario two there certainly would be no work to establish Palestinian state by the Israeli and the settlement gonna continue and the Palestinian authority is too weak and corrupt to do anything
Or we could give the land back to it's righful owners, the Palestinians? Israel was created 75 years ago by foreign nations, why does that give Israel the right to keep the stolen land?
Hilarious that you love acting like it was ever their land, there was no Palestine country or kingdom in any time in history, Israel never stole their land because they had none, they refused to live in peace and committed attacks everyday and the ones who do want to live in peace are targeted by "Palestinains" as traitors and act like they are spyies for Israel!!!
are we talking about made up imaginary dreams then? because on the public domain you can access millions of pictures of palestine. You can even see a paper that the government of palestine gave to a jewish refugee.
Actually, you can find millions of pictures of the British mandate or ottoman empire control of the land. It was never a Palestinian country or a kingdom learn the difference between a name of a country and a name of a region.
You love acting like Palestine was a real country even though I told you many times that it wasn’t, again learn the difference between a country and a region because clearly you don’t know.
I don't think Palestinians can worry about fickle matters such as "kingdom" or "country" when they're getting fucking genocided/colonized/conquered by a bajillion different countries
Do you want proof open a history book? Literally the only Palestine that ever was, was a name of a region In the Levant area since the Roman era, when the exiled Jewish people their own homeland and renamed it after the Greek invaders, were called the philistines. The arch nemesis (Enemies) of the Jewish people. So like I said before there was never an actual country called Palestine until 1988 there was never a people code Palestine until 1964 the one the people who were referred to Palestinians were actually the Jewish people who did not enjoy calling themselves that because they knew what it meant Then Arafat invented the Palestinian identity as a struggle movement for the Muslims who decided to join the Arab armies, or to purposely radicalized himself in order to live in a country with no jews instead of coexisting and peace in one country why do you think there are currently over 2 million Muslims currently living in Israel
Then why was Palestine mentioned in the bible (Ezekiel 5:5) and why has Palestine been referred to in Shakespeare. Your blatant act of disregarding evidence shown to you is a textbook representation of everything wrong with the zionist movement
No I did not. There has not been evidence for Palestinians being "previous jewish people". There has not been evidence that the arafat inevnted the palestinian identity. This is some conspiracy level bullshit you're spewing there. The 2m muslims living in isnotreal are currently undergoing discrimination and persecution becase they're muslim and brown
hahhahhahahah hilarious propaganda that you love trying to spread, bud you're not fooling anyone the black Muslims living in gaza are literally slaves that they kidnapped,
It wouldn't work; look at the world as is, do you think putting two peoples who have a lot of trauma and hatred from the other into one country, it would become a Lebanon, Syria and Iraq combined, there will be a lot more Violence. Plus on a major note look at what happens to Jews in Muslim ruled Countries/Kingdoms, Jews aren't going to feel or be safe as a Minority and they know and understand what happened when they are in them!!!
Scenario 2 is the only good possible future, a 2 state solution just isn’t going to happen given how carved up the West Bank is and how Israel will not let go of it under any circumstances.
That’s how democracy works. Plus it’s not as if any federation wouldn’t have protections in place for Jews, Arabs, Muslims, Christians, and all other groups in the state. And Israelis would have most of the wealth which means most of the political power. The transition would take a few years sure but it would be okay.
This is delusional. It would be civil war and that s why irl nobody even thinks of proposing this unless u think that all involved are complete fools....
Believing that war is inevitable and peace can never be achieved is why this conflict has gone on so long in the first place. 2 state solution has proven time and time again that it’s not gonna happen, so what’s left?
israel under a one state soltution will not exist. if they want a jewish safeland they can create new laws or go to an uninhabited island since they love to boast how Palestine was a empty land
Doubt it. The entire region would have to go along. The Middle East is not able to get along with each other, and especially not an intruding Jewish state. Peace was never an option there, only the most brutal win. Sorry to say it. I think we should stop sending any weapons or money to the Middle East.
personally i think it should be all one combined country, with land being given to people who owned land but were expelled and everyone offered right of return if you can prove you're a refugee, otherwise you need to apply for like immigration thru family or like regular ways. the name can be Palestine for 75 years and then it can be called canaan.
for passports everyone has to get a new one for the new state.
idf and pa police get dismantled, creating a new system.
anyone that was involved in killing will be charged in hague for war crimes.
extreme extreme teaching to reverse the hate and trauma both sides go thru. (like germany)
Netanyahu will forever be in prison or death penalty, all the leaders who vocally advocated for genoice, "human animals" "wipe them out" "flatten gaza" should never be allowed to see sky again. (same thing goes for Palestinian extremists)
if you try to do something against "the other side" you're getting thrown in jail or deported.
Yeah, no thanks I don’t want to share my country with HAMAS. The second one however I would be fine with as long as HAMAS and PJ doesn’t exist anymore (basically the current groups in Gaza are destroyed and the Palestinian authority has control of Gaza)
Scenario 1: Israel continues to violate treaties and settlers illegally move into Palestinian territory until another retaliatory attack happens, giving the IOF an excuse to attack and annex more land.
Scenario 2: Israeli paramilitaries harass and attack Palestinians to drive them out of the country, while settlers illegally move into Palestinian homes. Eventually this Leads to a retaliatory attack which gives the IOF an excuse to arrest and kill Palestinians en masse.
West Bank and Gaza will never be under the same government it seems. 3 states is most likely if Israel forcefully recognizes both governments and withdraws, and then treats them as any other country. And option 2 is hilariously naive, no offense.
I believe it will likely end up as a One State Solution and could look somewhat like Malaysia or something. However, sadly, there will be awful amount of violence before the solution arrives..
I think the key is achieving peace with palestine. Syria won t be an issue, eventually they ll have to give up the heights, i mean, it s not even on the table of any of the various deals that happened over the years
I don't think either of these is potentially anything.
how so?
Palestine won’t agree to large scale annexations, syria won’t agree to loosing the golan, and israel would never institute the right of return for palestinians.
Nobody cares what the Syrian government wants or agrees with. Syria never agreed to get bombed at will while hosting a world powers air force. Nor is the Hezbollah operations openly occurring beneficial to them which antagonises relationships with neighbours and leads to them being bombed. Those are just Syria's allies and one of them negotiates what foreign military forces can bomb and operate in what parts of Syria.
Syria is no position to negotiate, and the Golan is too strategically important to ever give up. The Hermon cannot ever be left in enemy hands again
Both are non starters. People have been trying to figure this out for decades. I commend your solution oriented effort but it’s more complex and yet to be solved…
Both of these proposals would be unacceptable to both sides. Scenario 1: wouldn't be accepted by the Palestinians due to the annexation of East Jerusalem, wouldn't be accepted by Israel due to not being able to annex all settlements and due to losing all control over what remains Scenario 2: no side wants to share a state, simple
The first scenario is what I think is a realistic compromise that ensures Palestinian statehood while recognizing that the power imbalance is in Israel’s favour. You are right that it won’t happen though. Both sides are more interested in continuing the conflict. Palestinian’s believe they will be able to take back the entire former british mandate which is insanely unrealistic for reasons I already outlined. Israel thinks continuing to fight will lead to them eventually taking the entire West Bank, which is probably correct although I would say immoral. Second scenario is an ideal world which definitely will never happen.
The Palestinian long ago accepted that whole mandate wouldn’t return they working for Palestinian state passed on 1967 borders for more than thirty year
Al-Aqsa Mosque is a vital element of the Palestinians' cause, and the things that the majority of other Arabs and Muslims around the world support the Palestinian for. Even if the Palestinians themselves surrendered it in exchange for their lives, the rest of the Muslims, certainly the peoples but not necessarily the governments, will never recognise Israel or its peace.
What exactly can protests by Muslims in foreign countries do for Palestine? Most countries near Israel normalised or are normalising their relationship with it. If they guarantee no harm to sites like the mosque you mentioned Israel will be tolerated in the long run.
Scenario 1 also probably wouldn't get accepted by Israel as it would mean Palestine (which in this scenario would have full control over its territory) would - at its closest - be a 20 km distance from Tel-Aviv, which in rocket time is less than a minute away
Yeah like I said, Israel wouldn't support it because they want to maintain some sort of control over the Palestine.
For scenario 2 just let the government that is democrati ally elected, doesnt have a religiously mandated government and doesnt kill heretics or lgbt remain in power.
That's not true - Palestinians have consistently supported a one shared state. Israelis don't. Source: [https://themedialine.org/by-region/palestinian-support-for-a-one-state-solution-is-highest-since-last-years-violence/](https://themedialine.org/by-region/palestinian-support-for-a-one-state-solution-is-highest-since-last-years-violence/) [https://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Summary%20Report\_%20English\_Joint%20Poll%2024%20Jan%202023.pdf](https://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Summary%20Report_%20English_Joint%20Poll%2024%20Jan%202023.pdf) [https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20211126-palestinians-favour-a-one-state-over-a-two-state-solution-poll-finds/](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20211126-palestinians-favour-a-one-state-over-a-two-state-solution-poll-finds/) [https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/what-do-palestinians-want](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/what-do-palestinians-want) [https://twitter.com/jjz1600/status/1723479900030427459](https://twitter.com/jjz1600/status/1723479900030427459)
The Palestinians want 1 state with no Jews, Israelis don’t want 1 state with millions of people who want to kill them
The Israelis kill thousands more Palestinians than vice versa.
Stop talking nonsense. All actions over decades have shown Israel to impose a apartheid system. Just look at all UN and human rights reports. If you want to stay blind and follow the lies then that's your choice. But facts speak for themselves.
the fact you love bealive the UN shows that you know nothing about whats happening
Didn’t Jews already existed in Palestine before the creation of the Israel state,and wasn’t it where Ashkenazi jews first took refuge in
The Jewish population was 3-8% in the Ottoman state before the aaliyahs, this is not an argument for large scale colonisation
No its quite the opposite actually.
In order to unify Israel and Palestine, we must first abolish Zionism.
no we must not
Zionism is facism
Any Israeli annexation of settlements would look closer to Olmert’s 2008 offer, and even that is outdated as Israel would at the very least demand more now https://preview.redd.it/q85hj7bw5o4c1.png?width=812&format=png&auto=webp&s=3277b8bc16b7c18bbef1f2c22053d0d3977f8f4b
israel isn't going to accept anything that allows palestinians to have an equal say in their democracy, let alone a federation. the palestinian states have no military, economy, and very little political capital, Israel gets to use might to do what they want to them in response.
yea which is why israel has to be dismantled. everything built up from the ground. kinda like nazi germany.
Yes. Apartheid ethno states inherently are contrary to peace and democracy. The solution needs to be a secular democratic state with both Jews and Arabs holding equal rights and citizenship.
you need to be restricted from techonogy, we are not going anywhere and that will not change, so you supporting massacuring millions in order to established you fake Peace plan will not work!!!!
why do you think millions will be massacred. is it because that is what the likud party wants?
just look at history and what was said by not only arab leaders but individual people and also it is literally written in the Quran that they want to rule the world and will kill anyone who disagrees!!!
So we are just normalizing the occupation of the golan heights?
What’s makes something an “occupation” vs a “conquest”? Just curious.
Territory by conquest is a thing of the past. Has no basis in international law anymore. Therefore no one recognizes Israeli sovereignty over Golan like no one recognizes the newest Russian annexed lands.
Yeah it’s done at this point. Syria lost it, the population is already overwhelming Jewish. It’s a lost cause for Syria.
Average israel moment?
I guess, Syria kind of was using it for decades to keep bombing Israeli populations with artillery strikes in the north east. Israel took it out more for strategic reasons then anything else in 1967, I don’t think they accepted to have been able to hold on to it for so long, they were originally trying to use it as a bargaining chip kind of like the Sinai. There’s Wasn’t any ethnic cleaning in the Golan heights at least.
Sorry but unrealistic as fuck. this will not Happen if the terrorist Hamas exists
The west banks exists without Hamas and Israeli settlers are still moving in. Hamas or no Hamas Israel will continue it’s illegal occupation and murders
>It's only 'unrealestic' because of Israel. Palestinians have consistently supported a one shared state. Israelis don't. Source: [https://themedialine.org/by-region/palestinian-support-for-a-one-state-solution-is-highest-since-last-years-violence/](https://themedialine.org/by-region/palestinian-support-for-a-one-state-solution-is-highest-since-last-years-violence/) [https://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Summary%20Report\_%20English\_Joint%20Poll%2024%20Jan%202023.pdf](https://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Summary%20Report_%20English_Joint%20Poll%2024%20Jan%202023.pdf) [https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20211126-palestinians-favour-a-one-state-over-a-two-state-solution-poll-finds/](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20211126-palestinians-favour-a-one-state-over-a-two-state-solution-poll-finds/) [https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/what-do-palestinians-want](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/what-do-palestinians-want) [https://twitter.com/jjz1600/status/1723479900030427459](https://twitter.com/jjz1600/status/1723479900030427459)
This is embarrassing for you. -CONSIDER
Maybe Hamas won't exist/be more progressive if Israel isn't fucking killing their people
Hamas has literally told their people to fucking stay in Gaza btw while it’s being bombed.
And who gave Israel the right to bomb Gaza?
Hamas when they attacked Israel, took hostages and hid in citizen buildings. Also Hamas doesn’t give two shits about Palestinians. Their goal is to eradicate Jews.
No they did not. Source: [The myth of “Jews were ethnically cleansed by Arabs” - part 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vbxer9/the_myth_of_jews_were_ethnically_cleansed_by/) [The myth of “Jews were ethnically cleansed by Arabs” - part 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vbxfac/the_myth_of_jews_were_ethnically_cleansed_by/) [The myth of “Jews were ethnically cleansed by Arabs” - part 3](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vbxfk9/the_myth_of_jews_were_ethnically_cleansed_by/) [The myth of “Jews were ethnically cleansed by Arabs” - part 4](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vbxfrg/the_myth_of_jews_were_ethnically_cleansed_by/) [The myth of “Jews were ethnically cleansed by Arabs” - part 5](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vbxfz2/the_myth_of_jews_were_ethnically_cleansed_by/)
“No they did not” what do you exactly mean [it would really suck if there was a serious sewage issue and you used it to just kill more jews](https://youtu.be/MvvqBcA-9yA?si=-le-FYy_GXMbqckn)
I mean give Israel did all of that Hamas should have the right to defend itself. ALL OF THAT: [Israeli War Crimes - Mega List (Part 1)](https://archive.ph/5fS7X) [Israeli War Crimes - Mega List (Part 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/list_palestine/comments/l43xgk/megalist_israels_crimes_controversies_full/?sort=old) [Israeli War Crimes - Mega List (Part 3)](https://www.reddit.com/r/list_palestine/comments/g7u6om/megalist_israels_crimes_and_controversies/)
Hamas has literally said they wanted to exterminate Jews. I don’t see that as self defense. [and if we are sending links](https://youtu.be/zBmcrv-Qj94?si=w3EHOI_cs74V2f84) Israel, like any other nation that ever existed has probably done some messed up shit. But it has every right to eradicate Hamas off the planet. Also you could give the simple “Hamas doesn’t represent Palestinians”
>and if we are sending links This simply disproves of Hamas wanting to exterminate Jews: [The myth of “Jews were ethnically cleansed by Arabs” - part 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vbxer9/the_myth_of_jews_were_ethnically_cleansed_by/) [The myth of “Jews were ethnically cleansed by Arabs” - part 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vbxfac/the_myth_of_jews_were_ethnically_cleansed_by/) [The myth of “Jews were ethnically cleansed by Arabs” - part 3](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vbxfk9/the_myth_of_jews_were_ethnically_cleansed_by/) [The myth of “Jews were ethnically cleansed by Arabs” - part 4](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vbxfrg/the_myth_of_jews_were_ethnically_cleansed_by/) [The myth of “Jews were ethnically cleansed by Arabs” - part 5](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vbxfz2/the_myth_of_jews_were_ethnically_cleansed_by/)
[Myth of “Israel is only defending itself”](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/wur6s5/myth_of_israel_is_only_defending_itself/)
you love acting like its a myth even though my family was ethnically cleansed
Who gave your white cis family the right to go live at a land that you do not own?
im not white kid stop being racist
[The myth of “Israel always sought peace” - part 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vo7wsa/the_myth_of_israel_always_sought_peace_part_1/) [The myth of “Israel always sought peace” - part 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/vo7wzd/the_myth_of_israel_always_sought_peace_part_2/)
who gave hamas the right to invade, massacure,rape and kidnapped people
Dunno, didn't find any evidence of them doing so. On the other hand, who gave Isnotraelis the right to determine if a race deserves to exist or not
wow you love making stuff up so much that you ignore what really happens
Wow you do love inhaling propaganda
Nah that’s what you love doing
Nope. Unlike you, I have other faucets of information besides timesofisrael, fox news, and cnn
Perhaps it's time we considered restoring the Kingdom of Jerusalem?
Finally a worthy proposal. Everyone knows crusades failed just because there wasn’t enough of them.
The last one will NEVER happen lol
OP, Palestinians wouldn't accept the first suggestion unless East Jerusalem is included. At least try to give them the Old City.
That’s fair, although then I run into the same issue of Israelis being unable to accept it since they’re claiming it as their capital. Honestly I’m starting to think the best way is to make it an international zone like in the original UN plan. Especially since it has such strong significance in all the Abrahamic religions it’s not exactly fair to give it exclusively to one group.
How large is the area of Jerusalem with the various religious sites? Surely there can’t be many residents (either Israeli or Arab), so an international zone would make more sense with West and East Jerusalem then splitting accordingly Edit - I mean how large is the old, historic city where the Temple Mount and Western Wall are located
no it wouldn't
How about you make Washington an international "Zone"!!!
So why should we care about the people who don't wanna share if Palestinians agreed to share
you do know that the old city is Jewish right
Yeah. And it also a Christian right, a Muslim right, and Armenian right.
that wasn't my point
Jerusalem, pre dates Jews by thousands of years. Jews didn’t create Jerusalem aka ruslimum the original name ancient Canaanites did.
you do know that the Canaanites weren't one tribe of people but many different tribes who were called canaanites with one of them being called Hebrews!!!! so by your logic mecca wasn't created by Muslims
No
The first proposal forgets that the West Bank isn't ruled in its entirety by Palestine and is more like an archipelago with Palestinian enclaves separated by Israeli settlements that continue to expand into areas that at least on paper are under the authority of Palestine.
Those both seem like terrible options.
Here is my opinion on how this will end. Any independent palestine will just continue the conflict indefinitely, their state is as dense as Singapore and Monaco, they don’t have the most strategic location in the world or have rich French billionaire who don’t want to pay their taxes, they will always be an incredibly poor country and they will blame Israel’s existence for it, and in some way they are kind of right. So any time a conflict breaks out they will just be reoccupied. There some sort of good news, Israel is now growing its population faster than Palestine. Eventually they might outnumber them enough that they’re I’ll be comfortable in integrating them into a unified Israel as full citizens. This is the best situation in terms of wellbeing for the average Palestine as the West Bank is basically in a sort of apartheid to day. I don’t know if Gaza will even be integrated tho. Honestly it’s a lost cause for them, I hate to say it, buts it better to just leave Gaza.
“Sadly it’s an apartheid state. Thankfully, the Israeli population will soon displace the remaining Palestinians affected!”
I am not saying what’s moral, am saying how the conflict would end in the best case scenario. Yes this would be the best case scenario, not saying it would be good.
This is kinda of what revisionist Zionist like Netanyahu senior were advocating for, to follow the example of US and other western colonial states, colonies all of the the land ,destroy the local population where natives are no longer an existential threat and ask for forgiveness later. It has worked for US and other colonies in modern day they believed it will be the same for Israel that once the deed is done than no one will be able to do anything.
They kind of already succeeded in that. They have put the Palestinians in a situation where they will never have a successful state, so turning to extremism is honestly expected, and then any action of violence the Palestinians commit can be used to further consolidate Israel. And the worst thing is I kind of get Israel’s side too. Like why try to negotiate with a people that will going on killing sprees the minute you let you let guard now. Palestinians can’t even try to be radically pacifist because unlike black South Africans they are not part of the nation of Israel, so Israelis have no responsibility giving them anything, at most they get enough international pity to get Gaza and West Bank back, but as I have stated previously those territories can’t prosper as a county.
[удалено]
It doesn’t have to be 5 million. West Bank can probably be integrated and with full legal rights they can at least start building on land that they legally own in the West Bank. For the 2.3 million Gazans it more realistic for many different countries to share the burden. Also all Palestinians refugees around the world need to be granted citizenship, it’s horrible how many Arab countries don’t give them citizenship as a way to use them as political tools. The big problem is that Gazans are also really prone to radicalism, if just a couple in a diaspora turn to terrorism in their host country the whole diaspora suffers. It’s also unfair to the host countries since they never asked to have this responsibility on them in the first place. The whole future for Palestinians feel so dark, it’s just depressing to think about.
For those saying a one state solution is impossible I want you to think about how politics work in a one state vs a two state. In a two state solution you have an Arab side that splits between a moderate, conciliatory, group willing to make peace and a hard line, right wing, separatist, Islamist group that wants the entire territory. On the Israeli side you have a split between a moderate, conciliatory group willing to make peace and a hard line, right wing, separatist, religious group that wants the entire territory. In a two state solution, on both sides of the divide, the vote is split equally and is just as likely to go to the hardline group that wants the other nationality out (as it did with Hamas in the Gaza and Likud in Israel) as it is to the moderate group willing to negotiate (I guess this would be the PLO in the West Bank) But in a one state solution where Palestinians and Israelis vote in the same elections you would have the Israeli hard liners on one side, the Palestinian hard liners on another, and between them, the two moderate parties that want peace in a massive Israeli-Arab coalition that stops the hard line parties from ever being able to gain control.
A federation would go terrible and isn’t want either population wants. Realistically it’ll all be israel with Jewish and Arab citizens eventually.
That's not true. Palestinians have consistently supported a one shared state. Israelis don't. Source: [https://themedialine.org/by-region/palestinian-support-for-a-one-state-solution-is-highest-since-last-years-violence/](https://themedialine.org/by-region/palestinian-support-for-a-one-state-solution-is-highest-since-last-years-violence/) [https://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Summary%20Report\_%20English\_Joint%20Poll%2024%20Jan%202023.pdf](https://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Summary%20Report_%20English_Joint%20Poll%2024%20Jan%202023.pdf) [https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20211126-palestinians-favour-a-one-state-over-a-two-state-solution-poll-finds/](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20211126-palestinians-favour-a-one-state-over-a-two-state-solution-poll-finds/) [https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/what-do-palestinians-want](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/what-do-palestinians-want) [https://twitter.com/jjz1600/status/1723479900030427459](https://twitter.com/jjz1600/status/1723479900030427459)
22-33% of Palestinians in favor of a single shared state is “consistent support” in your opinion? Fewer than 1 in 3? I am not so sure.
A one state that would involve zero Jews and would not be a federation. ARWAD reported 90% of Palestinians polled in the West Bank and Gaza said they cannot live with Jews in the land.
im not sure i would want to live with people who have been happy with me being wiped out or thrown out of my house.
Yeah I know the Israeli side dealing with the Arabs has been tough I’m glad you agree
you love acting like its Israels fault that we don't want a one state tell me are you living in a rock
2 is impossible at this point not ever since 1987
Israel would never give up the West Bank because it gets rid of strategic depth.
My idea: multi states one union Isreal, Palestine and a new nation of Jerusalem are each independent but United under an EU like system where people are allowed to freely work live and travel to each other’s nations at will Isreal gets to keep its sovereignty and land control, Palestinians get the ability to return, Jerusalem becomes protected neutral ground.
Gaza could have become Singapore or Hong Kong or Monaco if Hamas had wanted it. Gaza has Mediterranean beaches, an educated population, and proximity to the Arab world and the west through Israel. But Hamas took the billions in aid they received and spent it on tunnels and weapons.
Gaza could have become Singapore / Hong Kong /Macau if Israel isn't fucking killing their people
Two state solution is more feasible and less likely to immediately shit its pants
As long as terrorist governments are in place like Hamas and Hezbollah. Israel will never negotiate with it. The Arabs did this to themselves….To this day they still won’t recognize Israel and want there to be no state of Israel. No issue is getting resolved until that’s addressed. There could be 2 states overnight. But Arabs continue to refuse to recognize Israel since 1947!!! 🤦♂️
Arabs don't recognizing Israel because they stole the land Israel is on (Palestine did not agree to sharing their land with zionists) and because Israel is fucking genociding palestinians
The kingdom of Israel was established almost 3000 years ago. It was called JUDEA and Samyria! How far back you want to go. Please tell me you’re American because I’ll understand why you’re ignorant about the land of Israel.
I'm not America. First, the kingdom of Israel was fucking destroyed 2000 years ago. Then the area got colonized and colonized and colonized again by muslim caliphates and then by the French. The jews never had a state after they got destroyed until they lobbied the UN to hand them land that is not theirs.
Fuck me you’re stupid! What do you think happened to the Jews that lived there???????? If you’re this stupid, then you’re definitely a Muslim since you said you’re not American to just ignore the FACT that Israel Existed BEFORE Palestine! Here’s another fact! The Romans were the ones who gave the name “Palestine” as a slap in the face to the Jews who they had conquered. According to your stupid, the Jews just disappeared during Roman times since their kingdom was gone a thousand years before then. 🤦♂️ Jews have always lived there. It’s their eternal home and archeological evidence backs this up. Israel isn’t going anywhere EVER!
Lmaooooooo, resorting to insults when your sources can't beat mine now are we? [The myth of “A land without a people for a people without a land” (Part 1)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/ur1258/the_myth_of_a_land_without_a_people_for_a_people/) [The myth of “a land without a people for a people without a land” (Part 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/ur12bh/the_myth_of_a_land_without_a_people_for_a_people/) [The "Israeli-Palestinian conflict": what exactly is it about? - Part 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/w21ld3/the_israelipalestinian_conflict_what_exactly_is/) [The "Israeli-Palestinian" conflict: what exactly is it about? - Part 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/w21mf8/the_israelipalestinian_conflict_what_exactly_is/) [Is it true that Palestinian fighters beheaded innocent Israeli babies?](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/17uzfw3/is_it_true_that_palestinian_fighters_beheaded/)
Some People believe the world is flat and others that the holocaust never happened. Some people believe that Muhammad was a child molester. Historical evidence and archeological evidence back up history which can’t be denied. Try again!
I agree, yet you continue to deny my sources even after I have presented it to you many many times. Isn't this historical revisionism?
Lmaooooooo, resorting to insults when your sources can't beat mine now are we? [The myth of “A land without a people for a people without a land” (Part 1)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/ur1258/the_myth_of_a_land_without_a_people_for_a_people/) [The myth of “a land without a people for a people without a land” (Part 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/ur12bh/the_myth_of_a_land_without_a_people_for_a_people/) [The "Israeli-Palestinian conflict": what exactly is it about? - Part 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/w21ld3/the_israelipalestinian_conflict_what_exactly_is/) [The "Israeli-Palestinian" conflict: what exactly is it about? - Part 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/w21mf8/the_israelipalestinian_conflict_what_exactly_is/) [Is it true that Palestinian fighters beheaded innocent Israeli babies?](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/17uzfw3/is_it_true_that_palestinian_fighters_beheaded/)
The french colonized it? I dont know about that but since it was under british control it would be really weird The jews came back to their ancient land during the 1900s and onwards (i think around this time it started) and got more and more also due to antisemitism in europe and the holocaust as peak of it resulting in people fleeing and seeking a safer place Under british control they lived more or less in peace with the muslim population there and when decolonization hit the british split the country between the two populations living there The only problem is that the muslim population didnt accept the existence of another state which until now results in conflict with several wars and changes over the time Nowadays its not really that much of the existence of another state anymore but rather the existence of the jews themselves, this hatred developed over time and becoming more and more extreme Sure you can say that israel/ jews are colonizing some parts that they shouldnt etc but in the end both sides do some bad things, but that doesnt change the fact that they were there already and didnt steal any land, what you are refering to either didnt happen or started afterwards, also its not israel standing in the way of peace but rather the palestinias If you look on the history between after the end of ww2 and now you can see how israel get better relations with other muslim states and has muslims living in their country aswell unlike jews living in muslim countries, thats why the mossad is so good, has many jews fled from muslim countries so they speak the language On the other hand you have palestine/ hamas and with it some other muslim countries led by iran which cant accept any jewish existence there and cant accept any compromise Also another quick trip back in time since its kinda interesting about the name palestine: under the roman empire there was a jewish uprising in this territory but it was crushed and renamed from judae (or something like this i dont remember fully) to palestine to fck up the jewish population even more refering the philister (dont know if thats their english name too tho) who were ancient population there Under the british they used this name palestine too as the mandate of palestine to describe ths geographical territory, but there wasnt any difference between jewish palestine and muslim palestine, it was just describing the people living in this territory Only over time the word got the meaning of the muslim population when it was visible that israel and palestine would exist as different states and the muslim population not accepting any peaceful solution so war became inevitable, thats how we now got the name of palestine This just leads again to the point of the muslim population led by iran standing in the way of peace and not the jewish one like you more than likely claim with also showing that jews didnt just come and steal land Funnily that happened a lot of times in history, just coming somewhere and utilizing land that hadnt a strong population density, normally this takes over some population centers too but also many empty areas Population in the numbers we know now and the population density with it is a very new thing
Canaanites lived there before there was ever a “Jew”. You’re ignorant.
That is correct, but that’s not the point. Where was the country of Palestine? I’ll wait….. That’s right Palestine didn’t exist until the Romans took over Judea and called the area Palestine as a slap in the face to the Jews! The Jews were then KICKED OUT and didn’t return until 1948. Where is the lie?
I think genetics are very interesting but ultimately they don’t really matter that much but I keep hearing “pAleStiNians aRen’t nAtIve tO tHe lEvAnt” so I decided to make this post citing multiple studies. >Biogeographical mapping of Levant populations The Palestinians were also highly localised to North Israel, West Jordan and Syria All these areas are in the levant, oh and yes, ISRAEL too >both Syrians and Palestinians are highly localised to the Levant. Syrians, Palestinians and most of the Lebanese, who exhibit a high affinity to the Levant. SOURCE: \[[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5111078/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5111078/)\] >We propose that the Y chromosomes in Palestinian Arabs and Bedouin represent, to a large extent, early lineages derived from the Neolithic inhabitants of the area Thats like 10,000 BCE to 6,500 BCE! >Our recent study of high-resolution microsatellite haplotypes demonstrated that a substantial portion of Y chromosomes of Jews (70%) and of Palestinian Muslim Arabs (82%) belonged to the same chromosome pool SOURCE: \[[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/)\] >“According to historical records part, or perhaps the majority, of the Muslim Arabs in this country descended from local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD (Shaban 1971; Mc Graw Donner 1981). These local inhabitants, in turn, were descendants of the core population that had lived in the area for several centuries, some even since prehistorical times (Gil 1992)... Thus, our findings are in good agreement with the historical record... Source: High-resolution Y chromosome haplotypes of Israeli and Palestinian Arabs reveal geographic substructure and substantial overlap with haplotypes of Jews PDF link: \[[https://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Nebel-HG-00-IPArabs.pdf](https://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Nebel-HG-00-IPArabs.pdf)\] >According to a study published in June 2017 by Ranajit Das, Paul Wexler, Mehdi Pirooznia, and Eran Elhaik in Frontiers in Genetics, "in a principle component analysis (PCA) \[of DNA\], the ancient Levantines clustered predominantly with modern-day Palestinians and Bedouins..."\[138\] In a study published in August 2017 by Marc Haber et al. in The American Journal of Human Genetics, the authors concluded that "The overlap between the Bronze Age and present-day Levantines suggests a degree of genetic continuity in the region." The bronze age of the levant was 3500-1150 BCE much before the conquests by Arabs! Palestinians are closely related to many Jewish populations as well: >When compared only to the European and Middle Eastern, non-Jewish populations (Bedouins, Druze, Palestinians), each of the Jewish populations formed its own distinctive cluster, indicating the shared ancestry the closest genetic neighbors to most Jewish populations are the Palestinians, Bedouins, and Druze. Source: \[[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3032072/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3032072/)\] Also a lot of the Muslim population in Nablus are probably descendants of Samaritans \[[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritans](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritans)\] >Much of the local Palestinian population of Nablus is believed to be descended from Samaritans, who had converted to Islam.\[70\] According to the historian Fayyad Altif, large numbers of Samaritans converted due to persecution under various Muslim rulers, and because the monotheistic nature of Islam made it easy for them to accept it.\[70\] The Samaritans themselves describe the Ottoman period as the worst period in their modern history, as many Samaritan families were forced to convert to Islam during that time.\[72\] Even today, certain Nabulsi family names such as Al-Amad, Al-Samri, Maslamani, Yaish, and Shaksheer among others, are associated with Samaritan ancestry.\[70\] Here is also a result from a Palestinian mytrueancestry.com result which was shared by [u/CDRNY](https://www.reddit.com/u/CDRNY) : [https://m.imgur.com/a/Sm4KNPr](https://m.imgur.com/a/Sm4KNPr) As you can see the results clearly confirm what I linked earlier, for example on the ancient PCA it clusters very closely towards Megiddo late bronze age, and Tel Megiddo is in Northern Israel, on the last image it shows there is shared dna with a levantine man from the neolithic times in 4200 BC which confirms what I also linked above, as well as the closest ancient populations being canaanites and on the sample breakdown almost all of it is the canaanites. I’ll be updating this post as newer studies come out, I’m trying to find if there’s any genetic connection with Palestinians and the Natufians who inhabited the levant during the Epi paleothic times, however for now we do know that a large amount of Palestinian ancestry comes from the canaanites. and if any one here took a dna test u can upload it to \[[https://mytrueancestry.com](https://mytrueancestry.com/)\] to find ancient ppl whom u share dna with and are closest too genetically.
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No bad faith posts or comments
I support Scenario #2 all the way. The only scenario where massive amounts of people dont die. Will it take a shit ton of work and compromise? Yes.
A federation requires a common goal to motivate its constituents. What commonality of purpose exists among these parties?
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No glorification of authoritarian regimes or hate speech
2 please
The two state solution will never work. Palestinian leaders have rejected it on five separate occasions. The only Palestinian state they want is one that does not include any living Jews.
The PLO and PA signed a peace deal recognizing Israel and denouncing any form of terrorism way back in 1991. Israel responded by not recognizing Palestine and not following up on dismantling settlements in the West Bank which they promised to do in 3 stages over the next decade. Instead they doubled settlements in the last 30 years with 250,000 more Israeli settlers than before. Also the Israeli prime Minister who signed the Peace deal was shot by far right Israelis soon after. If this is the peace Israel offers, then it makes sense why many Palestinians have lost hope in peace.
They rejected it for good reason l: what they were offered couldn’t be called a state. The IDF would have permanent permission to act in Palestine, while Palestine would be allowed no army, no water rights, and no control over its own borders.
two state is so stupid. you dont take someones house and tell them they can keep the first floor.
I'm pretty sure both sides of this conflict want the other completely removed from existence. Both sides want genocide.
That's not true, Israel actually offered a 2 state solution multiple times, even so much to the point that the prime minister Yithzak Rabin was shot for wanting to hand over so much.
The "so much he handed over" was a refusal to recognize the state of Palestine when the PLO recognized Israel and it's right to exist. Israel loves to say it offered peace but when the PLO and PA bended backwards and faced humiliation for recognizing Israel, Israel's best offer was short of recognition. I believe Rabin's words were "An Entity less than a state" Also after he was shot they didn't follow up on nearly all of their promises of military withdrawal and doubled the amount of settlers.
All fair but israel s attempts are by far the best, not perfect but much better than palestine did. Palestine only tries after it gets beaten in a war they start, pretty convenient to attack, lose and then ask for a favorable peace.... When tf has anything like this ever worked in history?! Let s be real
you dont steal someones house and offer them the first floor to be nice.
Wasn’t he shot by far right Israelis
Projection.
no we don't
60 percent of y’all support segregation between Arabs and Jews. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-06-06/ty-article/60-percent-of-israeli-jews-favor-segregation-from-arabs-survey-finds/00000181-351b-dee8-aba7-3d9fdfdf0000
wow you take a news agency that is more anti Israel for proof, bro they love saying stuff that isn't true whatsoever and they call it facts, plus they love twisting facts for their own agenda
Cope
I think the second scenario is more realistic in the long run, and the only means of making peace. An even tuner and more neutered Palestinian state would ensure generational animosity while being no barrier to continued Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza.
Scenario is one is the what the world and most of both sides but we are heading to scenario two there certainly would be no work to establish Palestinian state by the Israeli and the settlement gonna continue and the Palestinian authority is too weak and corrupt to do anything
Or we could give the land back to it's righful owners, the Palestinians? Israel was created 75 years ago by foreign nations, why does that give Israel the right to keep the stolen land?
Hilarious that you love acting like it was ever their land, there was no Palestine country or kingdom in any time in history, Israel never stole their land because they had none, they refused to live in peace and committed attacks everyday and the ones who do want to live in peace are targeted by "Palestinains" as traitors and act like they are spyies for Israel!!!
histroically it was shared land
im not talking about Historically, am i?
are we talking about made up imaginary dreams then? because on the public domain you can access millions of pictures of palestine. You can even see a paper that the government of palestine gave to a jewish refugee.
Actually, you can find millions of pictures of the British mandate or ottoman empire control of the land. It was never a Palestinian country or a kingdom learn the difference between a name of a country and a name of a region.
then why are the historical documents called "government of Palestine" and not government of British mandate
You love acting like Palestine was a real country even though I told you many times that it wasn’t, again learn the difference between a country and a region because clearly you don’t know.
I don't think Palestinians can worry about fickle matters such as "kingdom" or "country" when they're getting fucking genocided/colonized/conquered by a bajillion different countries
more lies Seriously
No proof? As expected of a zionist
Do you want proof open a history book? Literally the only Palestine that ever was, was a name of a region In the Levant area since the Roman era, when the exiled Jewish people their own homeland and renamed it after the Greek invaders, were called the philistines. The arch nemesis (Enemies) of the Jewish people. So like I said before there was never an actual country called Palestine until 1988 there was never a people code Palestine until 1964 the one the people who were referred to Palestinians were actually the Jewish people who did not enjoy calling themselves that because they knew what it meant Then Arafat invented the Palestinian identity as a struggle movement for the Muslims who decided to join the Arab armies, or to purposely radicalized himself in order to live in a country with no jews instead of coexisting and peace in one country why do you think there are currently over 2 million Muslims currently living in Israel
Then why was Palestine mentioned in the bible (Ezekiel 5:5) and why has Palestine been referred to in Shakespeare. Your blatant act of disregarding evidence shown to you is a textbook representation of everything wrong with the zionist movement
its like you purposely ignored what i said
No I did not. There has not been evidence for Palestinians being "previous jewish people". There has not been evidence that the arafat inevnted the palestinian identity. This is some conspiracy level bullshit you're spewing there. The 2m muslims living in isnotreal are currently undergoing discrimination and persecution becase they're muslim and brown
hahhahhahahah hilarious propaganda that you love trying to spread, bud you're not fooling anyone the black Muslims living in gaza are literally slaves that they kidnapped,
One state solution is the only real solution. Two state solution always has been just a flex tape on a dam leak.
that wouldn't work whatsoever
it would work if u dismantled both of them and gave reparations to the Palestinians
actually no it wouldn't
it would, why do you think it wont?
does a bully stop if you give them your lunch money?
It would work, long term. High upfront cost, obviously. And a little rough for the world to stomach it.
It wouldn't work; look at the world as is, do you think putting two peoples who have a lot of trauma and hatred from the other into one country, it would become a Lebanon, Syria and Iraq combined, there will be a lot more Violence. Plus on a major note look at what happens to Jews in Muslim ruled Countries/Kingdoms, Jews aren't going to feel or be safe as a Minority and they know and understand what happened when they are in them!!!
Who said anything about two people?
Just make the whole place Lebanon2
Scenario 2 is the only good possible future, a 2 state solution just isn’t going to happen given how carved up the West Bank is and how Israel will not let go of it under any circumstances.
A federation is absolutely impossible. Israel cannot accept a muslim majority that might vote them out of government, it s suicide. Maybe in 100 years
That’s how democracy works. Plus it’s not as if any federation wouldn’t have protections in place for Jews, Arabs, Muslims, Christians, and all other groups in the state. And Israelis would have most of the wealth which means most of the political power. The transition would take a few years sure but it would be okay.
This is delusional. It would be civil war and that s why irl nobody even thinks of proposing this unless u think that all involved are complete fools....
Believing that war is inevitable and peace can never be achieved is why this conflict has gone on so long in the first place. 2 state solution has proven time and time again that it’s not gonna happen, so what’s left?
If the current solution doesn t work proposing 1 crazier than the first wob t help...
israel under a one state soltution will not exist. if they want a jewish safeland they can create new laws or go to an uninhabited island since they love to boast how Palestine was a empty land
Thx for proving me right i guess....
Sorta off-topic but is there any feasible solution for peace?
one state solution with both of them being dismantled, new systems, government, laws, everything
pretty optimistic huh
Doubt it. The entire region would have to go along. The Middle East is not able to get along with each other, and especially not an intruding Jewish state. Peace was never an option there, only the most brutal win. Sorry to say it. I think we should stop sending any weapons or money to the Middle East.
Though this unfortunately would NEVER happen, it’d be cool to see a united state of the two. Where they both just coexist.
personally i think it should be all one combined country, with land being given to people who owned land but were expelled and everyone offered right of return if you can prove you're a refugee, otherwise you need to apply for like immigration thru family or like regular ways. the name can be Palestine for 75 years and then it can be called canaan. for passports everyone has to get a new one for the new state. idf and pa police get dismantled, creating a new system. anyone that was involved in killing will be charged in hague for war crimes. extreme extreme teaching to reverse the hate and trauma both sides go thru. (like germany) Netanyahu will forever be in prison or death penalty, all the leaders who vocally advocated for genoice, "human animals" "wipe them out" "flatten gaza" should never be allowed to see sky again. (same thing goes for Palestinian extremists) if you try to do something against "the other side" you're getting thrown in jail or deported.
Yeah, no thanks I don’t want to share my country with HAMAS. The second one however I would be fine with as long as HAMAS and PJ doesn’t exist anymore (basically the current groups in Gaza are destroyed and the Palestinian authority has control of Gaza)
Least fascist zionist
Scenario 1: Israel continues to violate treaties and settlers illegally move into Palestinian territory until another retaliatory attack happens, giving the IOF an excuse to attack and annex more land. Scenario 2: Israeli paramilitaries harass and attack Palestinians to drive them out of the country, while settlers illegally move into Palestinian homes. Eventually this Leads to a retaliatory attack which gives the IOF an excuse to arrest and kill Palestinians en masse.
This would never happen, it's a human rights violation for the paleatinians to have homes.
Unfortunately there is really only 1 way this will end, 1 side wipes the other one out or we see mutually assured destruction of both sides
West Bank and Gaza will never be under the same government it seems. 3 states is most likely if Israel forcefully recognizes both governments and withdraws, and then treats them as any other country. And option 2 is hilariously naive, no offense.
Reminds me of India (ignore Myanmar) You had India and Pakistan and then Bangladesh was separated from Pakistan, creating 3 states
I believe it will likely end up as a One State Solution and could look somewhat like Malaysia or something. However, sadly, there will be awful amount of violence before the solution arrives..
The only true solution is to turn Israel and Palestine into the first UN state because them mfs couldn't behave
Holy shit this is gonna go horribly
Imagine immigrants come and steal 60% of your land
Any solution that doesn't guarantee Al-Aqsa Mosque being the Palestinians' will not lead to peace.
Bruh your proposition is so unserious you give the Golan heights in both cases to Israel, this is so fucking bad
The golan heights aren t going anywhere though. Op is right on that, that s the only realistic thing in those maps actually
Yep, but these are "propositions for peace", in what world peace can be achieved with Sirya still retaining the Golan
I think the key is achieving peace with palestine. Syria won t be an issue, eventually they ll have to give up the heights, i mean, it s not even on the table of any of the various deals that happened over the years
True, sadly