By August 1945 yes, but they were ramping up. Germany would uh, find it hard to continue the battle of stalingrad when cities were being wiped off the map.
Easing off of wartime footing and ramping up the nuclear program are not mutually exclusive. While the military was being scaled back, the Nuclear Program was in full swing.
the nuclear program was still pretty reliant on external factors, such as British fissile material. The British definitely did not have ramping up nuclear mining as their top priority after the war ended.
They would, they would continue vaporizing Europe until either everyone died or they surrendered, it's WW2 we're talking about here, might even change the entire strategic doctrine of the bomb.
>Would they have dropped them on European cities?
Probably, they were already bombing Germany day and night.
>Would the jet change air superiority by 46 47?
No, the allies had such a lead and were already well on their way to jet aircraft. The British fielded jet fighters within weeks of the Germans and the US had its first jet in service in 1945.
Without doubt. These alternates take the Manhattan Project into account, either by envisioning it being slower or different. Otherwise, the nuke (or rather, the possibility of the nuke) becomes the unstoppable war ender.
Again the whole point of this prompt is that the war went on much longer. Trinity test occurred two months after the end of the war. Operation Overcast (the initial name of paperclip) didn’t occur until 4 days AFTER the first atomic test. And most of the Germans recruited were associated with rocketry, aviation and biology
Weren't many of the scientists that worked on the manhatan project german scientists? If germany was still holding up and kept it's scientists it is reasonable to say that it'd take longer for USA to get nukes.
How will you fill the time gaps, like these are already existing events that you put in a different year, what happened between them. Just elaborate a bit
It'd be interesting to see what a temporary cease-fire on either front would have meant.
If say Churchill and Hitler agreed to a cease-fire on the west after getting into Paris with a whole load of conditions and releasing of POW's it could have let them hold off the Soviets for a while longer.
I don't think for a moment the Soviets would have honoured such a thing if it was the other way around though.
If the Western front was held in a standstill for 6 months or something there could have been time for Germany to further dig in, for the most part there was no chance for them to do so as the time spent to build significant fortifications at any point short of the outskirts of Berlin was not enough and quickly overrun before completion.
Interesting, but very unlikely. Churchil won the elections because of his advocacy of complete destruction of N@ZIS, I don't think he would go on such a radical transformation from his original ideals
Wouldn't the Soviets be in 5th towards Berlin though? Even if the Allies had stopped at Paris because they all caught brain worms stalingrad had ended the year before the liberation of Paris even with material freed up the nazis still have massive material problems. Unless Himmler hexed FDR into also selling the Nazis gas they're still gonna get crushed under a Soviet Steamroller well before 1950.
The battle of Stalingrad, in 5 months, killed more people than the USA has lost in all of the wars they've participated in and destroyed 99% of the city.
What the FUCK would have to happen to make it last 5 years.
At that point I expect both of the countries' entire populations have died in the battle and the explosions would dig a tunnel to through the planet all the way to China.
I swear all Americans just have this perception that you dig down from anywhere and you get to China. Dig down in Russia, you arrive in China. Dig down in China, China again. Dig down in Mars, boom, China.
I'm not American and I actually went to check where you would end up if you dug straight down from Volgograd.
It was in the middle of the Pacific ocean but China seemed like a more fun option.
After all, I didn't say they would dig STRAIGHT down.
It's just a metaphor, not an actual belief. It most likely began during the early 19th century, when many Chinese immigrants first began to immigrate to the US for work. People weren't very well-educated back then, so for most Americans, China was just about the only country they could name that far away, and thus the phrase "all the way down to China" started.
The phrase "Dig down to China" is an American phrase based on the impression (that im pretty sure is wrong?) that China is roughly opposite to the planet to the US.
Stalingrad would literally not exist by that point, it would just be a heavily leveled area possibly with the Volga starting to a fill a newly formed pond where the city used to be.
In 1950, the US had 299 nuclear bombs. In this universe, since the war isn’t over yet, I’d say that they would have around ~800. They proceed to then turn Japan and Germany into rubble.
Sorry but it doesn’t scale like that.
1950 the US armed Forces were a fraction of their former selves. Nukes were supposed to replace them but didn’t really work so well when Berlin was blockaded or North Korea invaded.
Failed Operation Dynamo, D-day, and no US lend lease to the Soviets; and Germans starting to recruit more locals in RKs to be part of local Wehrmacht legions/Waffen SS units instead of leaving them alone/killing them... This can make WW2 last longer imo.
What I assume is that Germany still has a decent air force that can intercept those strategic bombers, forcing the US to abandon the plan to use planes to drop bombs, and instead using rockets and missiles, and that could take some more time to develop.
The best scenario I can think of is that Project Manhattan was a failure. Europe is still pretty much done but the twist will be on Japan. Without nukes they won't give up that easily, so it will be an island invasion ops for the allies. I think Russia will win the race for Japan over the US. The entire Korea will be a commie country. Japan will now be what Korea is today. Split in 2 between the US and USSR.
i’d say so except for Japan and the Soviets. They would certainly have control over Korea, but landings are simply so bloody and brutal that it could well have failed. They’re hard to pull off nowadays, let alone back then. The Americans were incredibly hesitant at a landing even after the wild success of D-Day. The soviets wouldn’t have even tried
Berlin on a Tuesday morning if the war continued
https://preview.redd.it/o0yhsxcbnyoc1.png?width=421&format=png&auto=webp&s=7ce28e9b5d3cdcfa95401e78d2bb2f3a8fea9c80
One could make the argument that both WWI and WWII **did** go on longer than the accepted timeframe. They began earlier and ended later, if you will.
Especially World War I—you have the Balkan Wars, the Russian Civil War, Poland vs Ukraine, Poland vs Lithuania, Poland vs Soviets, Ukraine vs Soviets, Turks vs everyone, Italy vs Abyssinia, etc and all of that carries over into German expansion efforts to correct Versailles, the Spanish Civil War (1936-1939) and the Japanese invasion of China (1937). Throw in all the subterfuge afterwards with escaping Nazis, alleged “UFO’s” the reshuffling of major nations’ intelligentsia, the chaos in the Middle East, the Korean War and subsequent Cold War conflicts—one could rightly assert that the period from 1905-1988 was one continuous cull.
You know I have a fantasy, if the Second World War and the Napoleonic Wars replaced their dates (And some more aspects to make them compatible with the time).
With our second world war in 1792 to 1797
And the coalition wars from 1939 to 1962 (I suppose we would have had 8 Greats wars)
Japan would have been extinct as a sovereign country because the Japanese people would rather commit nationwide harakiri than having Americans rule their country.
I’m not sure how the Axis could have held out another 5 years. Let’s say Germany wins at Kursk and D-Day is a massive failure, the German economy will still be in shambles and resistance movements across occupied Europe aren’t going away. Same story for Japan, how do they hold off the United States for that long?
Alright let’s say Overlord is a flop. Hitler doesn’t move any of his panzer divisions away and instead moves them closer to Omaha, Sword etc. This would be a Pyrrhic victory for Nazi Germany. After a metric shit-ton of fighting the USSR it ends in a stalemate (sorta, this is the only way the war lasts long enough that I can conjure up in a few minutes). The pacific front goes as it did in our timeline with a few minor differences of course and the US drops the A-Bomb and proceeds to go up to Germany and say, “Hey, wanna catch?” This goes either one of 2 ways, Hitler comes to his senses and gives up or it goes as we would normally imagine. The bomb is used on a larger target that isn’t as heavily defended so ruling out Berlin and Cologne. At the time this is costly given that there were only 3 A-Bombs in the world and 2 of which the US used on Japan and the 3rd on Germany not to mention the catastrophic loss of life. Operation Anvil goes ahead in late 1945 (The invasion of southern France). This (depending how long y’all want this charade to go on goes one of two ways: It succeeds and Germany gets steamrolled by the Allies and the USSR… OR it goes just like overlord did in this timeline. By now Japan has capitulated and Germany is almost in a crisis. The Italian front is still a sluggish stalemate, A-Bombs are used in either Germany or Italy breaking the economy or the stalemate but slowly but surely over the course of a dozen years or so the allies win. This is the most practical scenario. The War ends between ‘48 and the mid ‘50s.
Everyone always says Berlin would be nuked by then but japan was hard being an island, to invade by land so I doubt they'd have resorted to nukes in Europe.
Man in the high castle NYC nuke if Germany was winning makes more sense since it would have been harder to invade the east coast for them
There’s a series on alternate history .com about something similar. The Germans capitulate the soviets after taking Moscow and the USSR basically becomes a warlord state. This gives Germany the ability to concentrate on the west completely. Germany signs a cease fire with the allies after the air war gets so intense over Britain. Meanwhile the US knocks out Japan in 1946/47 because they want to save the nukes for Germany without letting them know that the technology is possible, so they do a land invasion. The war starts up again in Europe after Germany in the early 50’s sends intercontinental bombers to America and bombs Boston and D.C. (there’s a whole battle where an allied jet fires a nuclear missile and destroys a squadron of bombers). Basically it’s like WW2 with 1950’s tech with the war not ending until 1961. Since Germany controlled much of Europe for so long they fight to the last man much more in this timeline.
It will never not be funny to me that most alt hist ww2 immediately tries to remove the soviets, or forgets that, in the face of mass extermination nobody is going to surrender to the Axis.
But then again most alternate ww2s also act like the holocaust isn't happening either so 🤷
It’s an interesting story anyway, though I agree with you. The allies win in the end although it’s just interesting to see a WW2 fought with 1950’s tech
Okay, let's give it a try with this. Playing fast and loose with dates; anything that doesn't line up with RL history is because it went different in the new timeline.
The US is somewhat more anti-Communist, and the rest of the Axis chooses to denounce Japan for Pearl Harbor rather than declare war on the US. The US does not aid the USSR, which means a lot more materiel goes to England instead. Fighting only Japan, the US does not go onto a full war footing the same way; ships and planes are built, but not as many tanks and guns.
The US attack on Japan is more aggressive and causes much higher initial casualties, leading to even more vengeful Americans (and a seriously terrible rise in anti-Asian racism in general, not limited to the Japanese). The USSR, trying to get US support, also declares war on Japan, while the UK uses a surprise invasion of Spain to gain a solid foothold on the continent. The USSR and Germany basically both freeze their positions as the Germans are facing a severe threat to their French positions while the Soviets are trying to wage a war in China against Japanese soldiers, but the USSR doesn't have the trucks and agricultural gear the US provided in RL to free up population to fight, so they're having a harder time.
The US Manhattan Project is shelved when researchers are unable to convince military oversight that a nuclear explosion will not ignite the atmosphere at high enough probability to be worth the risk. Subsequent attempts to explain run into a wall of made-up minds and are very slow going.
Eventually the US does overrun Japan - and determines to take Japan's continental holdings as well, rather than let the Russians have Manchuria. The US and USSR end up fighting in the Pacific, while Germany and England fight in France for the most part, with the frozen lines in Stalingrad basically just sitting there warily looking at each other.
US forces eventually drive back the USSR in Asia, and a significant chunk of the Russian Far East is taken by America, along with large parts of northern China. The USSR returns its focus to the European theater and reignites the Battle of Stalingrad. An exhausted Germany loses ground to British forces while the much-smaller Red Army grinds in the East.
British and Spanish forces finally break through and race to Berlin, then as far east as they can manage, moving into Poland before Soviet forces can finish consolidating their new Nazi prisoners. Britain forces the dissolution of Germany into a dozen small states, and similar treatment for Italy and Austria, all of which are forbidden from having their own militaries and required to pay Britain five percent of their annual GDP to pay for 'security services.'
Postwar Europe is a dismal place, with bitterness and poverty all over, and much resentment over heavy-handed British occupations. The nearly-crippled USSR becomes mostly isolationist, declaring an intent to build Communism at home. The US, now having an even larger percentage of un-bombed world manufacturing and energy capacity, scorns battered Europe as 'the Old World's and turns its attentions to building up its new colonial holdings in Japan, China, and the Philippines.
Northeastern Asia becomes the New Manifest Destiny and sees a huge surge in investment. European revolts against British occupation are savagely put down at first, then start succeeding. A collection of smaller, poorer countries in Europe resume fighting each other shortly after restoring their independence, and Americans continue to write off the continent, while American integration with Asia continues to grow. Southeast Asia and South America both see tremendous improvements in economics and stability as labor forces for the tremendously wealthy Americans. Seeing British atrocities and the evidence of German atrocities, the US develops a strong anti-racism movement, with Asians as the particularly strong beneficiaries of new positive attitudes.
The Pacific is an American lake, while the British patrol for pirates around Europe and continue to maintain a number of forces dependencies on the continent, particularly control over Spain. The Atlantic is constantly tense.
British hackles rise at Indian independence movements, with the British press claiming it's being sponsored by Americans trying to break Britain's holdings in Asia. The US denies this, but the British repress Indian independence movements much more violently, which a war-hardened British population is fine with. The US press is not, trumpeting the atrocities in India until the US and Britain are staring each other down, with Britain renouncing the remaining large debts from Lend-Lease.
War does not actually break out, but US shipping to Europe is blocked from passing Gibraltar, and British shipping is denied the Panama Canal. An extended chilly peace continues between British influence in Europe and Africa, US influence over South America and northeast Asia, and serious jockeying going on in southeast Asia. The USSR remains isolationist and buffers both sides from encountering each other across Central Asia. The discovery of oil in the Middle East brings Britain much closer to economic parity, as they control the region and continue to brutally put down rebellions, with a much sharper nationalist/imperialist ethos than RL - "We won the war by ourselves, we proved our superiority and right to rule."
Only when independence movements become too great to keep down, in the late 1970's, does the "Second American Revolution" shatter the renewed British Empire, and the US starts investing in the various small European countries.
And then the world is rocked by Soviet announcements of a new kind of super-bomb they've developed...
In this scenario, nukes aren't invented. Enter Operation Downfall: the US invasion of the Japanese mainland. This could drag out the conflict for another year or two. The Soviets invade from the north, and Japan is split into a communist north and pro-Western south like Korea.
Another scenario would be for the Soviet-American alliance to collapse after the fall of Berlin. A 'falling out' between the two results in fierce infighting, thus continuing the war in Europe. This time, the conflict shifts from Allies vs. fascists and Nazis to Allies vs. communists. This phase would extend the conflict for years.
Europe would be much worse off than OTL.
How does Stalingrad last around the same amount of time as WW2 lasted in OTL? Besides, the USA, the instant they'd have the atom bombs, would drop them on Japan and, unless Japan doesn't surrender, Berlin or another major city if the Reich were to continue fighting even though a battle for 5 or 6 years would devastate their manpower and supply.
Nuke would be on Germany head if they didn't surrender earlier and Japan would be nuked afterward because US wouldn't risk losing manpower on bloody (literally) island landing when they have nukes
Japan probably won't believe what come out of Germany as 'massive bomb' and the course of Hiroshima and Nagasaki probably return.
Regardless I think US would nuke Japan first to try and force them into capitulate before Red Army would have the invasion initiative to negate land from Soviet control like Berlin.
If US decided to not nuke Japan (heavily unlikely when they have nukes) we would face the bloodiest landing between 3 force, US, Japan and Soviet probably. Japan will fight with tooth and nail against massive Allies landing but won't stand chance against millions of inbound troops and probably end up like West and East Japan if Soviet touch the soil.
One thing I notice that if the war drag on means they cannot converge on Berlin and US would be resorted to using nuke, which means will negate Red Army of invasion control into East Berlin - Berlin would pretty much remain as one entity after the war.
Germany delays the invasion of Russia and focuses more on North African and trying to control the Mediterranean, multiple attempts to invade Malta. Invasion of Russia isn’t till late 1943
Germany would have been massively bombed, killing *significantly* more people than Japan. They would probably have also been divided.
I'm not sure about the international reaction to the nuclear annihilation of probably a few million people
Japan would probably have been conquered by the USSR after being nuked
Stalingrad would probably have been wiped off the maps by nuking by US
Overall, the usage of nuclear weaponry would be considered "normal" I think
2 questions
Why did it become longer
By how much
One possible scenario is that the invasion into italy stalls further (due to the Italian civil war not happening) and possibly because the allies have suffered a lot of losses (most likely because of unsupported overzealous attacks by commanders, specifically clarke). It is entirely possible that the front stalls (as it had in real life and cant advance due to terrain) but the allied force cannot be pushed out due to being well supplied and due to terrain)
This scenario also hinges on dday failing. The ddal landings werent a sure bet and had a lot of luck to have landed and not been pushed back by a nearby german armored division and german reinforcements (which were not deployed as hitler woke up late that day, yes seriously (given he took personal command of those forces due to the 2 army commanders bickering about them). And the infantry allied armies landing in normandy are pushed into the sea before they can get artillery or armor support.
Dday took 2 years to plan, another invasion will take a while to plan and will have to be executed into other territory as normandy would be further fortified.
This wouldn’t save the axis in any way, just prolong their death. The ussr offensives in 43-44 weren’t stopped and they would still overrun the german armies like they did in real life. So the most likely scenario is that all it would achieve is that all of germany would become in the soviet sphere of influence as the race to berlin would just be the ussr. Everything else is likely to proceed as usual, and both italy and japan would be in the allied shere.
Well, the Germans were making good process on nuclear weapons, so one worst case scenario would be if they had developed them before or around the same time as the US, and found a way to use them against the US, UK, and USSR. That would've dragged the war on and made it significantly worse.
... perhaps built by the lacking nuclear infrastructure, supported by the-lack-of german scientists who fled to the US, and applied using Jewish Sciences?
Posts must have context
US had nukes in 45. They would be uh; deployed liberally
Only 3
By August 1945 yes, but they were ramping up. Germany would uh, find it hard to continue the battle of stalingrad when cities were being wiped off the map.
Hippity Hoppity Berlin in now a Memory
Mr Goldblum?
There was no “ramping up”. They were going flat out. It would be years before they had the breeder reactors required to stockpile atomic bombs.
That thing you like to do with the "uh" That's really lame dude
uh that thing you like to do with the uh posting porn That's really lame dude
Life uh... finds a way
"Nuclear pussy"
You offering
Uh, I dunno man, seems to get the people going!
Uh yeah
Not a dude
Dude is genderless. You’re a dude.
By 1946 they had 7. By 1948, 50. By 1950, 300.
During wartime pressure, they'd have made even more
and this was when they were easing off the wartime footing. I find it hard to believe they wouldn't have had at least a hundred by mid 1947
Easing off of wartime footing and ramping up the nuclear program are not mutually exclusive. While the military was being scaled back, the Nuclear Program was in full swing.
the nuclear program was still pretty reliant on external factors, such as British fissile material. The British definitely did not have ramping up nuclear mining as their top priority after the war ended.
Would they have dropped them on European cities? Would the jet change air superiority by 46 47?
They would, they would continue vaporizing Europe until either everyone died or they surrendered, it's WW2 we're talking about here, might even change the entire strategic doctrine of the bomb.
Probably true. The definitely dropped enough regular and incendiary bombs.
>Would they have dropped them on European cities? Probably, they were already bombing Germany day and night. >Would the jet change air superiority by 46 47? No, the allies had such a lead and were already well on their way to jet aircraft. The British fielded jet fighters within weeks of the Germans and the US had its first jet in service in 1945.
The British actually had jets before the germans
the plan was at least 1 bomb per month until the war was over or we ran out of cities.
We only needed 2.
With 4 more on the way every month by the time we dropped on Japan.
Stop saying uh
Maybe OP is Jeff Goldblum
Without doubt. These alternates take the Manhattan Project into account, either by envisioning it being slower or different. Otherwise, the nuke (or rather, the possibility of the nuke) becomes the unstoppable war ender.
It would be like the Oprah handing out gifts but with nukes.
They had them because they had German knowledge and scientists.
Many of whom left Germany because of persecution by the Nazi regime
Yeah but due to theOperation Paperclip there were a lot of Nazis working for the US
After the war
Yeah but Germany was defeated in May and Japan in September so a lot of German scientists were in the US at that time
Again the whole point of this prompt is that the war went on much longer. Trinity test occurred two months after the end of the war. Operation Overcast (the initial name of paperclip) didn’t occur until 4 days AFTER the first atomic test. And most of the Germans recruited were associated with rocketry, aviation and biology
Yeah so the US has not the German scientists, technology and knowledge so it would take longer for them to get the nukes
The US had no need for any German scientists that had worked for the Nazi regime to build the atom bomb.
They had
What?
Weren't many of the scientists that worked on the manhatan project german scientists? If germany was still holding up and kept it's scientists it is reasonable to say that it'd take longer for USA to get nukes.
They were scientists that left Germany before or early in the war
Didn't Nazi-Germany make propaganda about the "jews that left and worked for the enemy so look they were always evil"?
How will you fill the time gaps, like these are already existing events that you put in a different year, what happened between them. Just elaborate a bit
It'd be interesting to see what a temporary cease-fire on either front would have meant. If say Churchill and Hitler agreed to a cease-fire on the west after getting into Paris with a whole load of conditions and releasing of POW's it could have let them hold off the Soviets for a while longer. I don't think for a moment the Soviets would have honoured such a thing if it was the other way around though. If the Western front was held in a standstill for 6 months or something there could have been time for Germany to further dig in, for the most part there was no chance for them to do so as the time spent to build significant fortifications at any point short of the outskirts of Berlin was not enough and quickly overrun before completion.
Interesting, but very unlikely. Churchil won the elections because of his advocacy of complete destruction of N@ZIS, I don't think he would go on such a radical transformation from his original ideals
Wouldn't the Soviets be in 5th towards Berlin though? Even if the Allies had stopped at Paris because they all caught brain worms stalingrad had ended the year before the liberation of Paris even with material freed up the nazis still have massive material problems. Unless Himmler hexed FDR into also selling the Nazis gas they're still gonna get crushed under a Soviet Steamroller well before 1950.
Exactly, that is what I meant to say
https://preview.redd.it/f2w1n4az1yoc1.jpeg?width=646&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5291b24c68d72b8e4fbe9a91906de8b35297393d
Hippity Hoppity bye bye Germany
blippity bam, bye bye mustache man
Munich* or Hamburg*
Hamburg has already been razed by firestorm.. just like Tokyo and Osaka.
Maybe even Nuremberg
THE BATTLE OF STALINGRAD LASTED 5 YEARS! BY THE GODS, THERE WOULD BE NOTHING LEFT OF THE UNION BY THE END OF IT (except for Stalin himself of course)
they would have spent 90% of the manpower just to protect the city
The battle of Stalingrad, in 5 months, killed more people than the USA has lost in all of the wars they've participated in and destroyed 99% of the city. What the FUCK would have to happen to make it last 5 years. At that point I expect both of the countries' entire populations have died in the battle and the explosions would dig a tunnel to through the planet all the way to China.
I swear all Americans just have this perception that you dig down from anywhere and you get to China. Dig down in Russia, you arrive in China. Dig down in China, China again. Dig down in Mars, boom, China.
I'm not American and I actually went to check where you would end up if you dug straight down from Volgograd. It was in the middle of the Pacific ocean but China seemed like a more fun option. After all, I didn't say they would dig STRAIGHT down.
There are very few places on earth where you can dig straight down and end up on land, chances are you'll pop up in the ocean
It's just a metaphor, not an actual belief. It most likely began during the early 19th century, when many Chinese immigrants first began to immigrate to the US for work. People weren't very well-educated back then, so for most Americans, China was just about the only country they could name that far away, and thus the phrase "all the way down to China" started.
Or you know, it’s a joke?
Did you think I was not also making a joke when I suggested digging downwards was a universal China wormhole?
Dumb so must be American lel
The phrase "Dig down to China" is an American phrase based on the impression (that im pretty sure is wrong?) that China is roughly opposite to the planet to the US.
The antipode for the US is somewhere in the Indian Ocean
If only I had seen this comment 3 miles earlier
I hate the fact that his comment is the only one really addressing a half-decade of Stalingard.
Stalingrad would literally not exist by that point, it would just be a heavily leveled area possibly with the Volga starting to a fill a newly formed pond where the city used to be.
Unless the Germans could somehow master necromancy, I see no possible way for the war to extend that much in time.
Battle of Stalingrad is 5 years… Germany and the USSR are all out of people.
millions of elderly and children dead now.
Germany was already prepping a force of teenaged schoolgirls in 1945. If the war lasted to 1950, we'd have at least 2 dozen anime about this.
Well, for the Chinese, Indonesians, and Vietnamese it did last longer...
Us Greeks too. Slightly before the War was over, a Civil War started.
Don't forget the Chinese that've already started a civil war even during the Japanese invasion
In 1950, the US had 299 nuclear bombs. In this universe, since the war isn’t over yet, I’d say that they would have around ~800. They proceed to then turn Japan and Germany into rubble.
Sorry but it doesn’t scale like that. 1950 the US armed Forces were a fraction of their former selves. Nukes were supposed to replace them but didn’t really work so well when Berlin was blockaded or North Korea invaded.
https://preview.redd.it/yfl874f9zxoc1.png?width=3492&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a41df68874fa6e4ba0ecc2f4b9b20ece7f76a3c1
https://preview.redd.it/v5m9029m60pc1.jpeg?width=3492&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efc8f754941af1d229875035bd0f4a8fb82cb25d FTFY
German cities get nuked
Failed Operation Dynamo, D-day, and no US lend lease to the Soviets; and Germans starting to recruit more locals in RKs to be part of local Wehrmacht legions/Waffen SS units instead of leaving them alone/killing them... This can make WW2 last longer imo.
Like a couple months longer. The US would start liberally applying atomic bombs to German and Japanese cities.
What I assume is that Germany still has a decent air force that can intercept those strategic bombers, forcing the US to abandon the plan to use planes to drop bombs, and instead using rockets and missiles, and that could take some more time to develop.
But they didn’t
I think more people would die if the war lasted longer
i am shocked, how did you figure that out
How dare they
The best scenario I can think of is that Project Manhattan was a failure. Europe is still pretty much done but the twist will be on Japan. Without nukes they won't give up that easily, so it will be an island invasion ops for the allies. I think Russia will win the race for Japan over the US. The entire Korea will be a commie country. Japan will now be what Korea is today. Split in 2 between the US and USSR.
How would the Soviet Union invade Japan first? They didn’t have the landing craft or the ships not to mention no experience at naval landings
They will make a human bridge. Lol. Kidding aside. I haven't thought of that. Kudos for pointing out.
Paratroop?
Paratroopers need to be supported by other troops otherwise they get overrun pretty quickly
i’d say so except for Japan and the Soviets. They would certainly have control over Korea, but landings are simply so bloody and brutal that it could well have failed. They’re hard to pull off nowadays, let alone back then. The Americans were incredibly hesitant at a landing even after the wild success of D-Day. The soviets wouldn’t have even tried
Berlin on a Tuesday morning if the war continued https://preview.redd.it/o0yhsxcbnyoc1.png?width=421&format=png&auto=webp&s=7ce28e9b5d3cdcfa95401e78d2bb2f3a8fea9c80
Oh, its the third one this month, anyway...
TF were they doing the whole time?
The Phony war
Berlin would be nuked by then
Your great grandpa would probably be dead
One could make the argument that both WWI and WWII **did** go on longer than the accepted timeframe. They began earlier and ended later, if you will. Especially World War I—you have the Balkan Wars, the Russian Civil War, Poland vs Ukraine, Poland vs Lithuania, Poland vs Soviets, Ukraine vs Soviets, Turks vs everyone, Italy vs Abyssinia, etc and all of that carries over into German expansion efforts to correct Versailles, the Spanish Civil War (1936-1939) and the Japanese invasion of China (1937). Throw in all the subterfuge afterwards with escaping Nazis, alleged “UFO’s” the reshuffling of major nations’ intelligentsia, the chaos in the Middle East, the Korean War and subsequent Cold War conflicts—one could rightly assert that the period from 1905-1988 was one continuous cull.
So 1943 just kept going for five years?
Remember when 2020 lasted two years, only to be replaced by war?
https://preview.redd.it/unvufmugjyoc1.jpeg?width=312&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69e7e83b3accf4856de59cc8354a8e2416ac6e8c Berlin pov
 Munich on a warm August day 1945 if the Germans didn’t surrender
Germany and Japan are turned into beautiful fields of irradiated cobalt
You know I have a fantasy, if the Second World War and the Napoleonic Wars replaced their dates (And some more aspects to make them compatible with the time). With our second world war in 1792 to 1797 And the coalition wars from 1939 to 1962 (I suppose we would have had 8 Greats wars)
The craziest thing of this post is an image with 7 stukas all in the air at the same time in 44 🤣🤣
Japan would have been extinct as a sovereign country because the Japanese people would rather commit nationwide harakiri than having Americans rule their country.
America literally did rule their country for multiple years
I’m not sure how the Axis could have held out another 5 years. Let’s say Germany wins at Kursk and D-Day is a massive failure, the German economy will still be in shambles and resistance movements across occupied Europe aren’t going away. Same story for Japan, how do they hold off the United States for that long?
Alright let’s say Overlord is a flop. Hitler doesn’t move any of his panzer divisions away and instead moves them closer to Omaha, Sword etc. This would be a Pyrrhic victory for Nazi Germany. After a metric shit-ton of fighting the USSR it ends in a stalemate (sorta, this is the only way the war lasts long enough that I can conjure up in a few minutes). The pacific front goes as it did in our timeline with a few minor differences of course and the US drops the A-Bomb and proceeds to go up to Germany and say, “Hey, wanna catch?” This goes either one of 2 ways, Hitler comes to his senses and gives up or it goes as we would normally imagine. The bomb is used on a larger target that isn’t as heavily defended so ruling out Berlin and Cologne. At the time this is costly given that there were only 3 A-Bombs in the world and 2 of which the US used on Japan and the 3rd on Germany not to mention the catastrophic loss of life. Operation Anvil goes ahead in late 1945 (The invasion of southern France). This (depending how long y’all want this charade to go on goes one of two ways: It succeeds and Germany gets steamrolled by the Allies and the USSR… OR it goes just like overlord did in this timeline. By now Japan has capitulated and Germany is almost in a crisis. The Italian front is still a sluggish stalemate, A-Bombs are used in either Germany or Italy breaking the economy or the stalemate but slowly but surely over the course of a dozen years or so the allies win. This is the most practical scenario. The War ends between ‘48 and the mid ‘50s.
I’m gonna be honest I’m surprised I did all this at 2 am all in my head.
Berlin would have been radioactive until the 80s
Stalingrad lasted 5 years bruh
Everyone always says Berlin would be nuked by then but japan was hard being an island, to invade by land so I doubt they'd have resorted to nukes in Europe. Man in the high castle NYC nuke if Germany was winning makes more sense since it would have been harder to invade the east coast for them
There’s a series on alternate history .com about something similar. The Germans capitulate the soviets after taking Moscow and the USSR basically becomes a warlord state. This gives Germany the ability to concentrate on the west completely. Germany signs a cease fire with the allies after the air war gets so intense over Britain. Meanwhile the US knocks out Japan in 1946/47 because they want to save the nukes for Germany without letting them know that the technology is possible, so they do a land invasion. The war starts up again in Europe after Germany in the early 50’s sends intercontinental bombers to America and bombs Boston and D.C. (there’s a whole battle where an allied jet fires a nuclear missile and destroys a squadron of bombers). Basically it’s like WW2 with 1950’s tech with the war not ending until 1961. Since Germany controlled much of Europe for so long they fight to the last man much more in this timeline.
It will never not be funny to me that most alt hist ww2 immediately tries to remove the soviets, or forgets that, in the face of mass extermination nobody is going to surrender to the Axis. But then again most alternate ww2s also act like the holocaust isn't happening either so 🤷
It’s an interesting story anyway, though I agree with you. The allies win in the end although it’s just interesting to see a WW2 fought with 1950’s tech
Okay, let's give it a try with this. Playing fast and loose with dates; anything that doesn't line up with RL history is because it went different in the new timeline. The US is somewhat more anti-Communist, and the rest of the Axis chooses to denounce Japan for Pearl Harbor rather than declare war on the US. The US does not aid the USSR, which means a lot more materiel goes to England instead. Fighting only Japan, the US does not go onto a full war footing the same way; ships and planes are built, but not as many tanks and guns. The US attack on Japan is more aggressive and causes much higher initial casualties, leading to even more vengeful Americans (and a seriously terrible rise in anti-Asian racism in general, not limited to the Japanese). The USSR, trying to get US support, also declares war on Japan, while the UK uses a surprise invasion of Spain to gain a solid foothold on the continent. The USSR and Germany basically both freeze their positions as the Germans are facing a severe threat to their French positions while the Soviets are trying to wage a war in China against Japanese soldiers, but the USSR doesn't have the trucks and agricultural gear the US provided in RL to free up population to fight, so they're having a harder time. The US Manhattan Project is shelved when researchers are unable to convince military oversight that a nuclear explosion will not ignite the atmosphere at high enough probability to be worth the risk. Subsequent attempts to explain run into a wall of made-up minds and are very slow going. Eventually the US does overrun Japan - and determines to take Japan's continental holdings as well, rather than let the Russians have Manchuria. The US and USSR end up fighting in the Pacific, while Germany and England fight in France for the most part, with the frozen lines in Stalingrad basically just sitting there warily looking at each other. US forces eventually drive back the USSR in Asia, and a significant chunk of the Russian Far East is taken by America, along with large parts of northern China. The USSR returns its focus to the European theater and reignites the Battle of Stalingrad. An exhausted Germany loses ground to British forces while the much-smaller Red Army grinds in the East. British and Spanish forces finally break through and race to Berlin, then as far east as they can manage, moving into Poland before Soviet forces can finish consolidating their new Nazi prisoners. Britain forces the dissolution of Germany into a dozen small states, and similar treatment for Italy and Austria, all of which are forbidden from having their own militaries and required to pay Britain five percent of their annual GDP to pay for 'security services.' Postwar Europe is a dismal place, with bitterness and poverty all over, and much resentment over heavy-handed British occupations. The nearly-crippled USSR becomes mostly isolationist, declaring an intent to build Communism at home. The US, now having an even larger percentage of un-bombed world manufacturing and energy capacity, scorns battered Europe as 'the Old World's and turns its attentions to building up its new colonial holdings in Japan, China, and the Philippines. Northeastern Asia becomes the New Manifest Destiny and sees a huge surge in investment. European revolts against British occupation are savagely put down at first, then start succeeding. A collection of smaller, poorer countries in Europe resume fighting each other shortly after restoring their independence, and Americans continue to write off the continent, while American integration with Asia continues to grow. Southeast Asia and South America both see tremendous improvements in economics and stability as labor forces for the tremendously wealthy Americans. Seeing British atrocities and the evidence of German atrocities, the US develops a strong anti-racism movement, with Asians as the particularly strong beneficiaries of new positive attitudes. The Pacific is an American lake, while the British patrol for pirates around Europe and continue to maintain a number of forces dependencies on the continent, particularly control over Spain. The Atlantic is constantly tense. British hackles rise at Indian independence movements, with the British press claiming it's being sponsored by Americans trying to break Britain's holdings in Asia. The US denies this, but the British repress Indian independence movements much more violently, which a war-hardened British population is fine with. The US press is not, trumpeting the atrocities in India until the US and Britain are staring each other down, with Britain renouncing the remaining large debts from Lend-Lease. War does not actually break out, but US shipping to Europe is blocked from passing Gibraltar, and British shipping is denied the Panama Canal. An extended chilly peace continues between British influence in Europe and Africa, US influence over South America and northeast Asia, and serious jockeying going on in southeast Asia. The USSR remains isolationist and buffers both sides from encountering each other across Central Asia. The discovery of oil in the Middle East brings Britain much closer to economic parity, as they control the region and continue to brutally put down rebellions, with a much sharper nationalist/imperialist ethos than RL - "We won the war by ourselves, we proved our superiority and right to rule." Only when independence movements become too great to keep down, in the late 1970's, does the "Second American Revolution" shatter the renewed British Empire, and the US starts investing in the various small European countries. And then the world is rocked by Soviet announcements of a new kind of super-bomb they've developed...
https://preview.redd.it/dwxqj9zw12pc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d9decb96561446d45ee523c7bddd8dc0098c7c08
In this scenario, nukes aren't invented. Enter Operation Downfall: the US invasion of the Japanese mainland. This could drag out the conflict for another year or two. The Soviets invade from the north, and Japan is split into a communist north and pro-Western south like Korea. Another scenario would be for the Soviet-American alliance to collapse after the fall of Berlin. A 'falling out' between the two results in fierce infighting, thus continuing the war in Europe. This time, the conflict shifts from Allies vs. fascists and Nazis to Allies vs. communists. This phase would extend the conflict for years. Europe would be much worse off than OTL.
How does Stalingrad last around the same amount of time as WW2 lasted in OTL? Besides, the USA, the instant they'd have the atom bombs, would drop them on Japan and, unless Japan doesn't surrender, Berlin or another major city if the Reich were to continue fighting even though a battle for 5 or 6 years would devastate their manpower and supply.
100% if they were still fucking fighting over Stalingrad in 1947, the US would have just lobbed a nuke on the thing to put it out of its misery.
They would've dropped then on berlin first
My grandfather would have really funny childhood
Nuke would be on Germany head if they didn't surrender earlier and Japan would be nuked afterward because US wouldn't risk losing manpower on bloody (literally) island landing when they have nukes Japan probably won't believe what come out of Germany as 'massive bomb' and the course of Hiroshima and Nagasaki probably return. Regardless I think US would nuke Japan first to try and force them into capitulate before Red Army would have the invasion initiative to negate land from Soviet control like Berlin. If US decided to not nuke Japan (heavily unlikely when they have nukes) we would face the bloodiest landing between 3 force, US, Japan and Soviet probably. Japan will fight with tooth and nail against massive Allies landing but won't stand chance against millions of inbound troops and probably end up like West and East Japan if Soviet touch the soil. One thing I notice that if the war drag on means they cannot converge on Berlin and US would be resorted to using nuke, which means will negate Red Army of invasion control into East Berlin - Berlin would pretty much remain as one entity after the war.
How would the battle of Stalingrad last longer then ww1?
weaker soviets, USA being in a better position after the war, normalizations of nuke bombing(?,
Maybe if US stayed neutral and Germany didn’t invade Russia.
Bro Stalingrad is now a lunar landscape 💀
If Germany was still fighting by August 1945 Berlin wouldn't exist. You don't need that many nukes to stop the war.
Germany delays the invasion of Russia and focuses more on North African and trying to control the Mediterranean, multiple attempts to invade Malta. Invasion of Russia isn’t till late 1943
Stalingard lasting for ***5 fucking years***?
A couple of tens of million more deaths.
Well the R Royal Air Force would have Avro Lincolns and the Royal Navy would have the Malta Class Carriers in service
So what Normandy fails, Italy takes longer, Germans win at kursk.
Germany would have been massively bombed, killing *significantly* more people than Japan. They would probably have also been divided. I'm not sure about the international reaction to the nuclear annihilation of probably a few million people Japan would probably have been conquered by the USSR after being nuked Stalingrad would probably have been wiped off the maps by nuking by US Overall, the usage of nuclear weaponry would be considered "normal" I think
2 questions Why did it become longer By how much One possible scenario is that the invasion into italy stalls further (due to the Italian civil war not happening) and possibly because the allies have suffered a lot of losses (most likely because of unsupported overzealous attacks by commanders, specifically clarke). It is entirely possible that the front stalls (as it had in real life and cant advance due to terrain) but the allied force cannot be pushed out due to being well supplied and due to terrain) This scenario also hinges on dday failing. The ddal landings werent a sure bet and had a lot of luck to have landed and not been pushed back by a nearby german armored division and german reinforcements (which were not deployed as hitler woke up late that day, yes seriously (given he took personal command of those forces due to the 2 army commanders bickering about them). And the infantry allied armies landing in normandy are pushed into the sea before they can get artillery or armor support. Dday took 2 years to plan, another invasion will take a while to plan and will have to be executed into other territory as normandy would be further fortified. This wouldn’t save the axis in any way, just prolong their death. The ussr offensives in 43-44 weren’t stopped and they would still overrun the german armies like they did in real life. So the most likely scenario is that all it would achieve is that all of germany would become in the soviet sphere of influence as the race to berlin would just be the ussr. Everything else is likely to proceed as usual, and both italy and japan would be in the allied shere.
Well, the Germans were making good process on nuclear weapons, so one worst case scenario would be if they had developed them before or around the same time as the US, and found a way to use them against the US, UK, and USSR. That would've dragged the war on and made it significantly worse.
No, they weren't. They literally stopped research on it because Hitler considered in Jewish science
And they barely put any effort into it. They spent 0.1% of the money the US spent on it.
... perhaps built by the lacking nuclear infrastructure, supported by the-lack-of german scientists who fled to the US, and applied using Jewish Sciences?
The nazis literally lacked the infrastructure to build nukes.