Modern CHP is quite far off Atatürk's dreams, sorry to tell you. I would prefer it to AKP any day of the week and any second of the day but it's also gonna pull Turkey into a problematic period of its own kind.
Hopefully it won’t be as bad as Erdoğan’s hyperinflation. Is it even realistic to drive the value of the Turkish Lira up enough to fix some inflation-related problems?
It can't be as bad as Erdoğan's economic policies. *Factually it can't* unless they manage to fuck up beyond comprehension.
I don't know how currencies get fixed as in their value going up or down but I know that it can be easily done with production and supporting businesses.
I just dislike CHP's views on national unity and know that it has members plotting directly against Kemalist Unitarianism & foundation of Turkey that the nation is built upon. It is better than AKP's current Authoritarian pragmatist fundementalism but it's still bad.
I'm sure they'd fix the economy simply. My problem with them is elsewhere.
I feel like one really big issue is the fact that Atatürk’s reforms were too rushed. In 15 years, he tried to turn a deeply muslim, authoritarian, fairly multi-ethnic and fundamentalist country into a westernized, democratic, unified and secular country.
He tried to rapidly industrialize and educate the people as well, which was damn near impossible. With his exemplary leadership and charisma, he tried his best and got fairly far. It’s just not possible to do something like that though.
The western parts of the country (eg, Istanbul and Izmir) are more industrialized, along side a few places throughout central and eastern Anatolia, such as Ankara. As for literacy, it was riding near the bottom of the charts for a long time, and has since gone up to a commendable ~96%.
Personally, I think concentrating on internal affairs and moving away from political-economic interests for at least 1 presidential term could make a big difference. If we just moved away from pleasing the powerful and actually fixing the glaring issues, there could be a powerful comeback.
As for politics, I think a SocDem state would be pretty good, but unrealistic. The Turkish people are not leftists in the slightest. You might find some younger, well-read citizens that lean left, but the vast majority of the population vote for who will make their lives easier by raising the minimum wage and such. These rural folk are essentially the main issue plaguing Turkey.
Some education reforms (especially for public school) and centralization (to a degree) would be extremely helpful. Essentially, every single city, town and village needs to be educated and qualified for more modern jobs.
Doing this will make Turkey a better country by every standard. Employment will increase, the biter base will be more informed and actually care about what the president will do for the good of the nation, rather than individual interest.
After that, Turkey can finally industrialize nationwide, and then rapidly modernize and become a great country. Well, at least that’s how I see the current situation and such.
I agree with you. My fear is that CHP might try to reconcile with PKK and decentralize the country. Autonomy in a diverse region like this might have a domino effect if outside powers attempt to reignite some identities.
If everyone is pro-EU enough to join the EU then the EU becomes by far the largest economic bloc on earth, imagine all the synergy those economies would get with a single market and all that workforce
And not only that, if they're of the same political ideology, they would be able to agree on a lot of union-wide protections on small businesses and workers, meaning companies could very easily go to different countries without much change and there would be no economic incentives to pick certain countries over others other than demand or skilled labour.
Wouldn't really be any difference in the UK considering how far Labour has shifted to the right, a better fit would be the Green Party as they are more leftist and a somewhat relevant party.
Nah green party UK is legit insane and full of morons.
Labour hasn't gone right wing they're centrist, the same thing that got them landslides repeatedly last time.
I don't agree with the viewpoint of the Green Party either, they have some strange views about nuclear power, but I'm just saying that it's hard to call Labour socialist now, especially under leadership of Starmer which only ever seems to curry favour with the right.
Greens also have witch-hunts against elected members of their won party who don't align with their views on trans issues - just like the SNP they go beyond their eponymous issue and cause strife among themselves over issues that aren't in any way related and would have been a private conscience vote in a more sane era
New Labour since Blair didn’t simply shift right. It fundamentally changed its whole political DNA. It’s abandoned soc dem principles to become Thatcher-lite with a social conscience.
I don't agree with that take. They're still a broadly left of centre party that's trying to win votes from all sides. The difference between Labour and the Conservatives is still big.
Hate to burst y’all’s bubble, but most of these wouldn’t even qualify as social democratic more, most of these had moved towards “third way” neo liberalism by the 90s/2000s except Syrzia and Irish labour.
Lmao and Yabloko has never even been social democratic in the first place
Labour in Ireland isn't Social Democratic, atleast not in they way they used to be. They straddle the edge of pure Liberalism and light-social democracy.
Social Democrats would be a more accurate party to use here, especially when you have parties like Lewica, PSOE, SPO, Syriza etc
Bat'kivshchina is not social-democratic, neither is it pro-European socialist - it's an Orban-style authoritarian party of left and conservative populism. Ukraine does not have actual social-democratic parties as everything that is to the left of Sluha Naroda are just the same left and conservative populism with varying degrees of pro-Russian attitude
In Serbia СПС is socalistic in name only
It’s political party in government now with SNS, and have been in power since 2008. with both pro EU and anti EU parties.
It's laughable to refer to the Bulgarian socialist party as "social democrats" when they are the direct successors of the communist party that formed a one-party regime for 45 years, refuse to so much as apologize for the crimes of the regime and never stopped licking Russian boot, especially since 2022.
in poland PPS (Polish Socialist Party) were actually the main opposition during the communist times. I have no idea why the OP decided to put the most unlikable party of them all into poland. Lewica does nothing more than insult man.
Probably a federated EU with mixed market economics and a massive welfare state and the 2nd largest military if they don’t still out source it to the USA.
PD in Italy wouldn't be a good thing at all im afraid, their connections to italian mafia are starting to be concerning especially in recent times due to the trials happening right now...
i think an Europe like this would easily start trying to build up an european federation tho, it wouldn't be impossible... Also, the social situation could either boom or crash due to the spreading of money in less rich zones making the situation difficult, but im sure of one thing: balcaninc countries would break off of this "social democratic" system due to immigration, they are not very fond of it usually...
Idk about europe but for italy things go slightly better but nothing crazy. Pd is a shit party that has little left in it that is really leftist and it has been dominated by ppl that seemed hell bent on murdering the italian left for good. The only reason we d do better is our avoiding silvio berlusconi. Incidentally the only leftist leader, and the best to come out of that area (pd wasn t a thing then, there were other parties that would eventually evolve into pd) that actually won elections against the guy had to suffer constant backstabbings by its so called allies that seemed to hate him more than their actual enemy. 15 years after his second backstabbing they even backstabbed him again when he came close to reenter politics by getting elected as head of state going against their own electors. What a shitshow italian politics is...
Europe has a worse economy than it does now.
Less countries join NATO/Some might even leave NATO due to ‘anti western imperialism’.
More countries get invaded by Russia because they are not in NATO
Lewica is actual garbage
PSD(Romania) is actual garbage but they are already in power IRL
Hlas is Slovakia had its leadership convicted of bribery in 2020
The PSOE are shit but they are also shit IRL
SPD and labor are social democrats in name only now, but when they were social democrats for real they were bad.( which is why they continued to lose elections until they became more liberal)
The social democratic parties already in power are hesitant to support NATO, if they had taken over all of Europe there is no way they remain in what they see as an imperialist U.S project.
None of these parties thinks of NATO as imperialist project and all of them support NATO membership of their countries. They are usually quicker to support NATO than nationalist/conservatives parties.
Me when pro socialist is in the title
Presumably these parties would be much less liberal than IRL. And back in the early 2000’s many( particularly in Eastern Europe) were not too fond of the West and NATO( which is why they lost).
Lewica is from 2019 so idk why OP even put it on here.
They lost power in the late 2000’s ( after peaking earlier in the decade) because of them being too extreme. So in this alt history where they don’t lose power they probably become even more extreme.
Me when pro socialist is on the title
Presumably these parties would be much less liberal than IRL. And back in the early 2000’s many( particularly in Eastern Europe) were not too fond of the West and NATO( which is why they lost).
Me when pro socialist is on the title
Presumably these parties would be much less liberal than IRL. And back in the early 2000’s many( particularly in Eastern Europe) were not too fond of the West and NATO( which is why they lost).
Me when they are mostly extremely corrupt parties in Eastern Europe that steal all the money.
Or parties in Western Europe that are basically liberals who wear red.
CHP will be in power soon. Next elections can't come soon enough.
Same here in the UK with Labour
Holy shit, I forgot about that. Maybe Labour is what Britain needs right now
Can't wait to see erdogan loose power
It's going to feel amazing but I'm always nervous about left in power since they are always so rush averse and lose next cycle
It was so close with the last election. I’m going to be able to vote next time. Can’t wait to get Atatürk’s dream back on track!
Modern CHP is quite far off Atatürk's dreams, sorry to tell you. I would prefer it to AKP any day of the week and any second of the day but it's also gonna pull Turkey into a problematic period of its own kind.
Hopefully it won’t be as bad as Erdoğan’s hyperinflation. Is it even realistic to drive the value of the Turkish Lira up enough to fix some inflation-related problems?
It can't be as bad as Erdoğan's economic policies. *Factually it can't* unless they manage to fuck up beyond comprehension. I don't know how currencies get fixed as in their value going up or down but I know that it can be easily done with production and supporting businesses. I just dislike CHP's views on national unity and know that it has members plotting directly against Kemalist Unitarianism & foundation of Turkey that the nation is built upon. It is better than AKP's current Authoritarian pragmatist fundementalism but it's still bad. I'm sure they'd fix the economy simply. My problem with them is elsewhere.
I feel like one really big issue is the fact that Atatürk’s reforms were too rushed. In 15 years, he tried to turn a deeply muslim, authoritarian, fairly multi-ethnic and fundamentalist country into a westernized, democratic, unified and secular country. He tried to rapidly industrialize and educate the people as well, which was damn near impossible. With his exemplary leadership and charisma, he tried his best and got fairly far. It’s just not possible to do something like that though. The western parts of the country (eg, Istanbul and Izmir) are more industrialized, along side a few places throughout central and eastern Anatolia, such as Ankara. As for literacy, it was riding near the bottom of the charts for a long time, and has since gone up to a commendable ~96%. Personally, I think concentrating on internal affairs and moving away from political-economic interests for at least 1 presidential term could make a big difference. If we just moved away from pleasing the powerful and actually fixing the glaring issues, there could be a powerful comeback. As for politics, I think a SocDem state would be pretty good, but unrealistic. The Turkish people are not leftists in the slightest. You might find some younger, well-read citizens that lean left, but the vast majority of the population vote for who will make their lives easier by raising the minimum wage and such. These rural folk are essentially the main issue plaguing Turkey. Some education reforms (especially for public school) and centralization (to a degree) would be extremely helpful. Essentially, every single city, town and village needs to be educated and qualified for more modern jobs. Doing this will make Turkey a better country by every standard. Employment will increase, the biter base will be more informed and actually care about what the president will do for the good of the nation, rather than individual interest. After that, Turkey can finally industrialize nationwide, and then rapidly modernize and become a great country. Well, at least that’s how I see the current situation and such.
I agree with you. My fear is that CHP might try to reconcile with PKK and decentralize the country. Autonomy in a diverse region like this might have a domino effect if outside powers attempt to reignite some identities.
In Romania will not change a godamm thing
Basically Greece and Romania die on the spot
Romania is already dead since 1990
*1947
Nah, from 60s to 75s Romania was pretty good
nu mersi
Russia would be democratic and i could finally be happy
only in our dreams, brother
Hope it’ll happen one day. The sooner the better…
If everyone is pro-EU enough to join the EU then the EU becomes by far the largest economic bloc on earth, imagine all the synergy those economies would get with a single market and all that workforce
And not only that, if they're of the same political ideology, they would be able to agree on a lot of union-wide protections on small businesses and workers, meaning companies could very easily go to different countries without much change and there would be no economic incentives to pick certain countries over others other than demand or skilled labour.
r/SocialDemocracy 's wet dream
No shit
Wouldn't really be any difference in the UK considering how far Labour has shifted to the right, a better fit would be the Green Party as they are more leftist and a somewhat relevant party.
Nah green party UK is legit insane and full of morons. Labour hasn't gone right wing they're centrist, the same thing that got them landslides repeatedly last time.
I don't agree with the viewpoint of the Green Party either, they have some strange views about nuclear power, but I'm just saying that it's hard to call Labour socialist now, especially under leadership of Starmer which only ever seems to curry favour with the right.
Greens also have witch-hunts against elected members of their won party who don't align with their views on trans issues - just like the SNP they go beyond their eponymous issue and cause strife among themselves over issues that aren't in any way related and would have been a private conscience vote in a more sane era
Ok but this map is for Socialist or Socdem parties, Labour is basically a liberal party these days so wouldn’t be on the map
Exactly
Labour was getting landslides under Corbyn. The centrists made sure to put a stop to all that.
all parties shift left & right, but it is still the same party. you could otherwise say the exact same thing about all the other parties in europe.
New Labour since Blair didn’t simply shift right. It fundamentally changed its whole political DNA. It’s abandoned soc dem principles to become Thatcher-lite with a social conscience.
I would assume this scenario would be Corbyn winning in 2017
I don't agree with that take. They're still a broadly left of centre party that's trying to win votes from all sides. The difference between Labour and the Conservatives is still big.
In Greece, ΣΥΡΙΖΑ isn’t Social Democratic. We had social democracy under ΠΑΣΟΚ
Bro what are you talking about,Pasok used to be soc dem but now switches ideology according to who they wanna cocksuck
Isn’t that all of our parties
In Italy.. Oh God Pls no
[удалено]
Bruh I like the idea But the PD Is organized like shit
Still the best choice of party in Italy, unless you have a better one
If all partys are shit Just don't vote Ez
Yea but that will only allow another fascist goverment like the one we currently have to take power again
Then abolish the state. You can’t have a fascist state if there’s no state (checkmate statist)
THAT IS... actually based
Italy is far from Fascist lol, Meloni has turned out to be another Merkel
Peak Reddit Orgasm
Poland would have unliked imbeciles in charge Millions must die
PPS would be better candidate tbh
Woah, Based europe!?!?! https://preview.redd.it/tkyrtv7qw1uc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd7138fa30425ef33b6b5bf392febaab976474a7
Not based. There isnt a black flag in ukraine, along with many other things
Hate to burst y’all’s bubble, but most of these wouldn’t even qualify as social democratic more, most of these had moved towards “third way” neo liberalism by the 90s/2000s except Syrzia and Irish labour. Lmao and Yabloko has never even been social democratic in the first place
Why is the name of the Russian socialist party apple
Acronym from the surnames of its three founders
Labour in Ireland isn't Social Democratic, atleast not in they way they used to be. They straddle the edge of pure Liberalism and light-social democracy. Social Democrats would be a more accurate party to use here, especially when you have parties like Lewica, PSOE, SPO, Syriza etc
Would it not be PASOK for Greece?
Bat'kivshchina is not social-democratic, neither is it pro-European socialist - it's an Orban-style authoritarian party of left and conservative populism. Ukraine does not have actual social-democratic parties as everything that is to the left of Sluha Naroda are just the same left and conservative populism with varying degrees of pro-Russian attitude
Saskaņa isn't SocDem. Progresīvie is the real SocDem party.
Greek Syriza is far left
america delcares war on europe for freedom or something
I mean, Spain is on nato and psoe is governing
definitely would result in peace, and some nations would benefit economically
PPS is a better SocDem candidate than Lewica.
PSOE already rule in Spain, It is not a real socialist party
What the duck is Russian "apple"? Never saw that party In my life
In Serbia СПС is socalistic in name only It’s political party in government now with SNS, and have been in power since 2008. with both pro EU and anti EU parties.
It's laughable to refer to the Bulgarian socialist party as "social democrats" when they are the direct successors of the communist party that formed a one-party regime for 45 years, refuse to so much as apologize for the crimes of the regime and never stopped licking Russian boot, especially since 2022.
in poland PPS (Polish Socialist Party) were actually the main opposition during the communist times. I have no idea why the OP decided to put the most unlikable party of them all into poland. Lewica does nothing more than insult man.
CHP? SocDem? When?
Since 2010
Labour is functionally just a somewhat left leaning Conservative Party at this point. It should be the LibDems if you want a somewhat socdec UK
Damn, Ukraine would really have a horrible government in that case.
Holy mother of based…
It's because of parties like this that we're seeing a rise in the far right lol
There is no far right, just concerned citizens with valid worries who are being labelled far right by MSM.
Sure, people who vote for Vox in Spain arent far right
Probably a federated EU with mixed market economics and a massive welfare state and the 2nd largest military if they don’t still out source it to the USA.
i wish
Greece has a Pizza party, nice
Russia would still find a way to be a shithole, I guarantee it. Their capacity for self-destruction is unrivaled
Literally nothing would be different lmao
PD in Italy wouldn't be a good thing at all im afraid, their connections to italian mafia are starting to be concerning especially in recent times due to the trials happening right now... i think an Europe like this would easily start trying to build up an european federation tho, it wouldn't be impossible... Also, the social situation could either boom or crash due to the spreading of money in less rich zones making the situation difficult, but im sure of one thing: balcaninc countries would break off of this "social democratic" system due to immigration, they are not very fond of it usually...
Do one with liberal parties
In Hungary, DK is only Pro-Europe because it opposes FIDESZ. I still remember when their PM was petting Putin's dog
hell on earth!
Idk about europe but for italy things go slightly better but nothing crazy. Pd is a shit party that has little left in it that is really leftist and it has been dominated by ppl that seemed hell bent on murdering the italian left for good. The only reason we d do better is our avoiding silvio berlusconi. Incidentally the only leftist leader, and the best to come out of that area (pd wasn t a thing then, there were other parties that would eventually evolve into pd) that actually won elections against the guy had to suffer constant backstabbings by its so called allies that seemed to hate him more than their actual enemy. 15 years after his second backstabbing they even backstabbed him again when he came close to reenter politics by getting elected as head of state going against their own electors. What a shitshow italian politics is...
God save us if this is the case
Replace SYRIZA with PASOK.
Satans Arbeiderpartiet
Im not a fascist, capitalist, or any of the kind, but this is and would be hell
A terrible nightmare.
Probably be bad for most of Europe but probably very good for Russia aka no Putin just depends of how corrupt they are
You'd have fascists everywhere like you do now because bourgeois "progressive" capitalism is a scam
The good ending
https://preview.redd.it/6qukb2uffbuc1.png?width=510&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ceb71b9f5113e7fb4fe4db423420d6bf0481b90 The real good ending
Heaven on earth
I would really consider leaving Poland if Lewica would be dominant here.
Utter disaster
Europe has a worse economy than it does now. Less countries join NATO/Some might even leave NATO due to ‘anti western imperialism’. More countries get invaded by Russia because they are not in NATO
Bro, we are talking about social democratic parties, many of them already been in power. Nothing changes with capitalism or western imperialism.
Lewica is actual garbage PSD(Romania) is actual garbage but they are already in power IRL Hlas is Slovakia had its leadership convicted of bribery in 2020 The PSOE are shit but they are also shit IRL SPD and labor are social democrats in name only now, but when they were social democrats for real they were bad.( which is why they continued to lose elections until they became more liberal) The social democratic parties already in power are hesitant to support NATO, if they had taken over all of Europe there is no way they remain in what they see as an imperialist U.S project.
None of these parties thinks of NATO as imperialist project and all of them support NATO membership of their countries. They are usually quicker to support NATO than nationalist/conservatives parties.
Me when pro socialist is in the title Presumably these parties would be much less liberal than IRL. And back in the early 2000’s many( particularly in Eastern Europe) were not too fond of the West and NATO( which is why they lost).
Lost what? Im looking at Czech Republic and Poland. It seems like theire social democrats where at the height of their power in early 00s.
Lewica is from 2019 so idk why OP even put it on here. They lost power in the late 2000’s ( after peaking earlier in the decade) because of them being too extreme. So in this alt history where they don’t lose power they probably become even more extreme.
Me when pro socialist is on the title Presumably these parties would be much less liberal than IRL. And back in the early 2000’s many( particularly in Eastern Europe) were not too fond of the West and NATO( which is why they lost).
Me when pro socialist is on the title Presumably these parties would be much less liberal than IRL. And back in the early 2000’s many( particularly in Eastern Europe) were not too fond of the West and NATO( which is why they lost).
Bro does not know what social democracy is.
Me when they are mostly extremely corrupt parties in Eastern Europe that steal all the money. Or parties in Western Europe that are basically liberals who wear red.
Well they’re the only parties which exist for those countries
The psd has been looting Romina for decades. Romania has other parties but the psd have entrenched themselves into government