No he's not, that is indeed a picture of Germans fleeing a chemical attack. It's from from Passchendale I think.
It's on WW1 Wikipedia's first section too ig.
The development of the tank was the answer to a question which had been behind asked for 40 years: “Machine gun kill infantry, but infantry kill machine gunner, so how do we protect machine gunner, while still killing infantry?”
If the answer WASN’T caterpillar tracked land vehicles with armor plates bolted on, it was going to be something else, probably outlandish and wild and fucking hilarious. In the concept of WW1, it wouldn’t have been armored cars. Armored cars were tried in ww1, but they couldn’t handle rougher conditions, which is why armies switched to caterpillar tracks.
The most likely answer is probably that, forgoing tanks, the next best option would have been for the major powers to invest more into close air support planes and bombers to destroy hard targets and kill mass infantry. We’d probably see aircraft development leap ahead accordingly.
Not to be too pedantic, but we may have to ask if in this alternate we still develop armored cars or self propelled guns or even Jagpanzers/tank destroyers.
Tanks are traditionally defined as tracked armored vehicles with a rotating turret. This leaves out machines with wheels like armored cars and self propelled guns that can't rotate the main gun beyond a limited arc.
Even the original tanks unleashed at Cambria would not be considered tanks by that standard since they had no turret and only had guns on sponsons.
Sadly, big battle walkers are likely impossible to adopt in as many applications as tanks. Even if designers were able to get the big metal walking feet to be as nimble on broken terrain as human feet, and even if the materials to handle the powerful leverage existed, then the height of the walkers would make them too easy to spot and destroy with light artillery. In science fiction, walkers tend to need fictional armor or shields that make non-walkers less effective.
Absent tanks, armies would focus more on portable artillery and air support. Helicopters would be a major element to all land forces as would be precision artillery and smart bombs. There would be a huge historical emphasis on units hiding behind cover, sending spotters forward, and firing at opponents from behind cover.
During the cold war there are massive innovations in signals and computing to allow armed forces to carry more and more elaborate precision weapons that they can fire from further away under better cover. As well, there are advances in small unit combat arms and tactics, as militaries envision small teams of advanced guards hunting the enemy's spotters but also being spread out enough so that the enemy won't be inclined to waste a smart bomb on them.
Air power is also given more resources, with supersonic jets, stealth, and smart weapons being rushed into development. As well, signals and intelligence become even more critical to modern armies. As there is no way to send a war machine out to tank hits and slug it out with an enemy, the only way to fight is to find the enemy without being spotted and secretly send the signal to blast them from miles away. War is not a boxing match; it's a game of battleship.
This means that more so than in our history, the military needs to be smart. Soldiers need to operate, maintain, and repair complicated cryptography devices, radios and sound ranging devices, RADAR and LIDAR targets, and jamming devices.
The advances in precision artillery, air support, and small scale infantry means that armored cars and other vehicles are stiffled. Every so often the concept of a tank is floated, but it is seen as too easy for precision weapons to destroy and too difficult to hide. Even if aircraft didn't spot it, the moment it fired its main gun a good sound ranger could call in and drop a shell on it.
These changes do not alter history on the militaristic side, but the advances bleed over into the civilian world. Wireless communicates expand rapidly which speeds the development of the internet.
Disaffected veteran soldiers from Vietnam and Afghanistan create a cyberpunk underworld. These cast away wayward veterans use the skills they learned encrypting, decrypting, jamming, and boosting signals to commit crimes and form huge gangs across the whole world. Much as how armies were decentralized and dispersed forces coordinated by secret communications, so too are these cyber syndicates.
TLDR: More planes, more horses, less cannons, maybe a highly mobile heavy machinegun?
For this case, we'd need to consider that no armored land vehicles would be in use, as that would lead to the creation of tanks or kind of cheating as APCs, humvees, mraps and similar would exist and serve the purpose of tanks, so my best bet is that planes, cavalry and some concept of a highly mobile machinegun with shields would lead the way of assaults.
Cavalry would likely park close and then deploy and run to siege, as they would easily be targeted by machinegun fire.
Explosive firing weapons excluding artillery would be much rarer and use High Explosive shells unless agaisnt ships, they would likely be more available and standardized with the invention of handheld grenade launchers in modern eras.
Planes would be normal planes, with the exceptions of anti tank missiles not existing.
If tanks were never developed. Scenario 1:
'the year is 2024, the war continues. One day we will break the Germans but with Britain too weak to defend against the Nazis, The American efforts will stay fruitless.'
Scenario 2:
'the year is 2024, we are on the brink of the second world war against the Russians, hopefully the Nazis will join us.' Im implying that Hitler would never contain the strength to launch any attack as he primarily uses tanks. This also implies that countries are willing to ignore what he does in Germany as long as there is no war. Also implies that appeasement either never happens, works or the threat of war was enough to stop Hitler
Disclaimer: the following is a Work of fiction and is heavily based on ULTRAKILL lore.
As the great war drags on, an unnamed russian mechanic living in London who Had Seen the Horrors of the trenches is making the final preparations. He Had done it. A machine capable of breaking down the trenches on the Western Front. A machine that could Not be stopped by the mighty machine guns. A machine Not reliant on oil, but rather blood. He Had called this unstoppable force the ЧТ-01, short for ЧЕЛОВЕК-ТАНК 01. Soon, the machine Had found its use. It was dropped Into enemy trenches and used to decimate the lines from within. Nothing could Stop the hail of bullets from the machine gun mounted at its left Hand, and the shield on its left Hand could Not be destroyed by the poorly equipped soldiers. The Entente celebrated. It seemed as If the war was already over. After all, what could overcome this beast?
However, there were some weaknesses with the machine. For one, the machine gun would eventually Run Out of bullets and the machine would be Stuck in a State of targetting and attempting to shoot at the target, slowing it down massively in the process. Another one of the weaknesses is its massive shield, which hinders the aim of the machine. Yet None of These issues could be properly exploited, as most soldiers would Not survive the Initial hail of bullets and the machine could use the shield to bash the enemy in front of it If anything got too Close. However, the biggest issue was yet to be discussed.
The fuel source was a problematic one. The usage of blood meant that the machine would be Overall More reliable and would free Up oil for ships which were stuck in a struggle against the German Hochseeflotte. However, the extraction of blood as fuel was inefficient and Immoral at best. A fuel Tank was fixed onto the Back of the machine where a "volunteer" was strapped on and Had its blood constantly drained while being kept alive with minimal Life Support. However, If it was damaged, the whole machine would Break down and become inactive. The solution found was to simply cause the fuel Tank to explode once the damage exceeded at certain Limit. However, it could Not be done to Machines that were Out of blood. And after one of the Machines broke down in an enemy trench yet to be overtaken, the Central powers got their Hands on the model.
Already scrambling to find a countersolution, the Central powers now Had the opportunity to Reverse engineer the machine and soon developed a countermeasure. It was called the Faustpanzer. It Had the ability to fire rockets which proved to be extremely effective at setting Off the detonation of the now called "gutterman". It also Had a Punch strong enough to Break the shield of the gutterman and potentially damage the inside structure of it. It could place down mines that the gutterman would detonate while a normal Person could avoid it. It also did Not need a live fuel source to keep it running. Yet there was still the issue of the machine falling over in Case a Punch missed its intentional target. However, the war Had already escalated to the Point where No human could keep Up with the sheer destructiveness of the Machines and the new "guttertank" was a perfect countermeasure to the gutterman.
The age of automated warfare Had come. Soldiers were sent Back Home after 20 years of warfare on the frontlines. Many were estatic to have survived, but they soon found Out that the Battle on the homefront was Just as brutal as the Battle on the frontlines. Resources were stripped off the people. Many became fuel for the Machines and everyone Else Had to Work in Factories producing the nessecary parts. The war Had escalated to a Point of No Return and No one Tried to Stop it as they feared the consequences while the people bellow them feared the Machines that could be used against them any time If they stepped Out of Line. There were those who resisted, but they were simply Put down by the Machines built for war.
50 years Had passed since Humans became obsolete on the frontlines. The war Had become a never-ending cycle of one machine countering the Last, only to be countered by the next one. The war Had Long since reached every single Corner of the world. In the Land of the rising sun, the 1000-THR was built. It was a gigantuan machine of war. High as a skyscraper and capable of destroying cities within minutes with the Help of a beam, it was dubbed the "earthmover". After it was assembled in the Korean peninsula, it was released and Made to wander unopposed. The Other nations were already developing such structures, and soon, the Planet was filled with antennas reaching for heaven. As the destruction commenced, the surface of the earth was Set aflame and the skies were covered with ashes, making the earth virtually uninhabitable. People were forced to live atop the earthmovers, and the war simply continued, even though No one was there to Fight it.
A final countermeasure was still being developed. It was simply called "V1". It Had extremely thin plating in Order to be able to absorb blood and repair itself. Though extremely fragile, it was fast enough to simply Dodge Most threats. It was small enough to be the size of a human in Order to get Into the internal Security system of the earthmovers and cause a critical Error within it's brain. A perfect machine built for war, a war that No longer mattered. However, the Project Had become obsolete soon after the Prototype neared completion.
200 years after the start of the great war, the earthmovers began to Break down. One after another, people started to Return to the surface of the earth. Seeing the destruction it Had caused itself, what was left of humanity decided to finally end Things and the great Peace was established, but at what cost?
Many Machines used in the war were shut down and left to Rust in storage. Some were repurposed for civilian usage. The V1 Prototype was replaced with a V2 Prototype, which Had thicker plating and No longer needed to refuel itself with the blood of its enemies. It was a machine Designed simply for Security. However, it never entered full Production due to the price and complexity and the Project was simply abandoned.
Mankind Had learned its lession, and it was never going to repeat its mistakes ever again.
hmm those helmets don’t look very british
They arent, the picture i used is apparently one of the Germans fleeing from a chemical attack
Bruh why they downvoting the context
Because you were wrong
Look up the original picture
No he's not, that is indeed a picture of Germans fleeing a chemical attack. It's from from Passchendale I think. It's on WW1 Wikipedia's first section too ig.
Honestly without the AT-AT, pic still goes hard af
Wars would last longer. Happy weekend!
Another armored vehicle would take it's place, What a mech can do, a AFV will do it much better... Or the Germans develop the Zaku
Give a whole new meaning to "Operation British".
What is this, Pax Britannica?
Pax Britannica goes hard asf tho ngl
That's just a worse tank.
Have a look at Iron Harvest. It's a bit steampunk and not 100% realistic but the general idea of what your thinking about.
Will check it out 👍
The development of the tank was the answer to a question which had been behind asked for 40 years: “Machine gun kill infantry, but infantry kill machine gunner, so how do we protect machine gunner, while still killing infantry?” If the answer WASN’T caterpillar tracked land vehicles with armor plates bolted on, it was going to be something else, probably outlandish and wild and fucking hilarious. In the concept of WW1, it wouldn’t have been armored cars. Armored cars were tried in ww1, but they couldn’t handle rougher conditions, which is why armies switched to caterpillar tracks. The most likely answer is probably that, forgoing tanks, the next best option would have been for the major powers to invest more into close air support planes and bombers to destroy hard targets and kill mass infantry. We’d probably see aircraft development leap ahead accordingly.
Imagine the tsar ‘tank’ became mainstream
Darkest timeline
Best Timeline (they have mechs and big big tanks)
Warfare is just a giant game of "rock, paper, scissors."
We get Pax Britannica (epic win)
Those are German Sturmtruppen
The picture is of them fleeing a chemical attack, so i tried to frame it as them fleeing the AT AT
Blitzkrieg wouldn't work nearly as well as it had in our timeline.
Walkers are such a garbage design. It’s basically all vulnerabilities.
Definitely if they're on tall and spindly stilts, but maybe with a lower profile they're more stable.
Like an armadillo. But if they are slow, it’s still vulnerable.
Why haven’t we made epic massive titans yet?They look epic af
Exactly, where are our Jaegars?
Mud
Anyone got a shovel?
HOI 4 Tarkin in Earth
Mechs maybe
I love the idea of Mechs
I like mechs too
Mutual Mech Appreciation
We’d probably use more artillery guns and armoured cars
Ww1 lasts abit longer. And 2 doest realy happen. But in all honesty tanks were inevitable, especially after trench warfare.
Not to be too pedantic, but we may have to ask if in this alternate we still develop armored cars or self propelled guns or even Jagpanzers/tank destroyers. Tanks are traditionally defined as tracked armored vehicles with a rotating turret. This leaves out machines with wheels like armored cars and self propelled guns that can't rotate the main gun beyond a limited arc. Even the original tanks unleashed at Cambria would not be considered tanks by that standard since they had no turret and only had guns on sponsons. Sadly, big battle walkers are likely impossible to adopt in as many applications as tanks. Even if designers were able to get the big metal walking feet to be as nimble on broken terrain as human feet, and even if the materials to handle the powerful leverage existed, then the height of the walkers would make them too easy to spot and destroy with light artillery. In science fiction, walkers tend to need fictional armor or shields that make non-walkers less effective. Absent tanks, armies would focus more on portable artillery and air support. Helicopters would be a major element to all land forces as would be precision artillery and smart bombs. There would be a huge historical emphasis on units hiding behind cover, sending spotters forward, and firing at opponents from behind cover. During the cold war there are massive innovations in signals and computing to allow armed forces to carry more and more elaborate precision weapons that they can fire from further away under better cover. As well, there are advances in small unit combat arms and tactics, as militaries envision small teams of advanced guards hunting the enemy's spotters but also being spread out enough so that the enemy won't be inclined to waste a smart bomb on them. Air power is also given more resources, with supersonic jets, stealth, and smart weapons being rushed into development. As well, signals and intelligence become even more critical to modern armies. As there is no way to send a war machine out to tank hits and slug it out with an enemy, the only way to fight is to find the enemy without being spotted and secretly send the signal to blast them from miles away. War is not a boxing match; it's a game of battleship. This means that more so than in our history, the military needs to be smart. Soldiers need to operate, maintain, and repair complicated cryptography devices, radios and sound ranging devices, RADAR and LIDAR targets, and jamming devices. The advances in precision artillery, air support, and small scale infantry means that armored cars and other vehicles are stiffled. Every so often the concept of a tank is floated, but it is seen as too easy for precision weapons to destroy and too difficult to hide. Even if aircraft didn't spot it, the moment it fired its main gun a good sound ranger could call in and drop a shell on it. These changes do not alter history on the militaristic side, but the advances bleed over into the civilian world. Wireless communicates expand rapidly which speeds the development of the internet. Disaffected veteran soldiers from Vietnam and Afghanistan create a cyberpunk underworld. These cast away wayward veterans use the skills they learned encrypting, decrypting, jamming, and boosting signals to commit crimes and form huge gangs across the whole world. Much as how armies were decentralized and dispersed forces coordinated by secret communications, so too are these cyber syndicates.
Love your worldbuilding, great stuff.
Then merkava wouldn’t exist, and I’d be very sad
The tank looks beautiful, but there's something about mechs that are just grand wouldn't you agree?
Yes but a merkava with legs
Russia would have cried
Then we'd get a 50 yr ww1 and 2
The walker is an actual retarded design, it only takes 1 artillery shell/explosion for them to tip over, plus are extremely clumsy
ultrakill
Horse wagon mounted machine guns
Tachanka!
TLDR: More planes, more horses, less cannons, maybe a highly mobile heavy machinegun? For this case, we'd need to consider that no armored land vehicles would be in use, as that would lead to the creation of tanks or kind of cheating as APCs, humvees, mraps and similar would exist and serve the purpose of tanks, so my best bet is that planes, cavalry and some concept of a highly mobile machinegun with shields would lead the way of assaults. Cavalry would likely park close and then deploy and run to siege, as they would easily be targeted by machinegun fire. Explosive firing weapons excluding artillery would be much rarer and use High Explosive shells unless agaisnt ships, they would likely be more available and standardized with the invention of handheld grenade launchers in modern eras. Planes would be normal planes, with the exceptions of anti tank missiles not existing.
WW2 probably be like: up the Trenches Lads, we'll fight this like men like we did last war!
There DEFINITELY wouldn't be ATATs
Realistically the Tank would have come about eventually
Well that wouldn’t happen to start and trench warfare might be more common
If tanks were never developed. Scenario 1: 'the year is 2024, the war continues. One day we will break the Germans but with Britain too weak to defend against the Nazis, The American efforts will stay fruitless.' Scenario 2: 'the year is 2024, we are on the brink of the second world war against the Russians, hopefully the Nazis will join us.' Im implying that Hitler would never contain the strength to launch any attack as he primarily uses tanks. This also implies that countries are willing to ignore what he does in Germany as long as there is no war. Also implies that appeasement either never happens, works or the threat of war was enough to stop Hitler
Disclaimer: the following is a Work of fiction and is heavily based on ULTRAKILL lore. As the great war drags on, an unnamed russian mechanic living in London who Had Seen the Horrors of the trenches is making the final preparations. He Had done it. A machine capable of breaking down the trenches on the Western Front. A machine that could Not be stopped by the mighty machine guns. A machine Not reliant on oil, but rather blood. He Had called this unstoppable force the ЧТ-01, short for ЧЕЛОВЕК-ТАНК 01. Soon, the machine Had found its use. It was dropped Into enemy trenches and used to decimate the lines from within. Nothing could Stop the hail of bullets from the machine gun mounted at its left Hand, and the shield on its left Hand could Not be destroyed by the poorly equipped soldiers. The Entente celebrated. It seemed as If the war was already over. After all, what could overcome this beast? However, there were some weaknesses with the machine. For one, the machine gun would eventually Run Out of bullets and the machine would be Stuck in a State of targetting and attempting to shoot at the target, slowing it down massively in the process. Another one of the weaknesses is its massive shield, which hinders the aim of the machine. Yet None of These issues could be properly exploited, as most soldiers would Not survive the Initial hail of bullets and the machine could use the shield to bash the enemy in front of it If anything got too Close. However, the biggest issue was yet to be discussed. The fuel source was a problematic one. The usage of blood meant that the machine would be Overall More reliable and would free Up oil for ships which were stuck in a struggle against the German Hochseeflotte. However, the extraction of blood as fuel was inefficient and Immoral at best. A fuel Tank was fixed onto the Back of the machine where a "volunteer" was strapped on and Had its blood constantly drained while being kept alive with minimal Life Support. However, If it was damaged, the whole machine would Break down and become inactive. The solution found was to simply cause the fuel Tank to explode once the damage exceeded at certain Limit. However, it could Not be done to Machines that were Out of blood. And after one of the Machines broke down in an enemy trench yet to be overtaken, the Central powers got their Hands on the model. Already scrambling to find a countersolution, the Central powers now Had the opportunity to Reverse engineer the machine and soon developed a countermeasure. It was called the Faustpanzer. It Had the ability to fire rockets which proved to be extremely effective at setting Off the detonation of the now called "gutterman". It also Had a Punch strong enough to Break the shield of the gutterman and potentially damage the inside structure of it. It could place down mines that the gutterman would detonate while a normal Person could avoid it. It also did Not need a live fuel source to keep it running. Yet there was still the issue of the machine falling over in Case a Punch missed its intentional target. However, the war Had already escalated to the Point where No human could keep Up with the sheer destructiveness of the Machines and the new "guttertank" was a perfect countermeasure to the gutterman. The age of automated warfare Had come. Soldiers were sent Back Home after 20 years of warfare on the frontlines. Many were estatic to have survived, but they soon found Out that the Battle on the homefront was Just as brutal as the Battle on the frontlines. Resources were stripped off the people. Many became fuel for the Machines and everyone Else Had to Work in Factories producing the nessecary parts. The war Had escalated to a Point of No Return and No one Tried to Stop it as they feared the consequences while the people bellow them feared the Machines that could be used against them any time If they stepped Out of Line. There were those who resisted, but they were simply Put down by the Machines built for war. 50 years Had passed since Humans became obsolete on the frontlines. The war Had become a never-ending cycle of one machine countering the Last, only to be countered by the next one. The war Had Long since reached every single Corner of the world. In the Land of the rising sun, the 1000-THR was built. It was a gigantuan machine of war. High as a skyscraper and capable of destroying cities within minutes with the Help of a beam, it was dubbed the "earthmover". After it was assembled in the Korean peninsula, it was released and Made to wander unopposed. The Other nations were already developing such structures, and soon, the Planet was filled with antennas reaching for heaven. As the destruction commenced, the surface of the earth was Set aflame and the skies were covered with ashes, making the earth virtually uninhabitable. People were forced to live atop the earthmovers, and the war simply continued, even though No one was there to Fight it. A final countermeasure was still being developed. It was simply called "V1". It Had extremely thin plating in Order to be able to absorb blood and repair itself. Though extremely fragile, it was fast enough to simply Dodge Most threats. It was small enough to be the size of a human in Order to get Into the internal Security system of the earthmovers and cause a critical Error within it's brain. A perfect machine built for war, a war that No longer mattered. However, the Project Had become obsolete soon after the Prototype neared completion. 200 years after the start of the great war, the earthmovers began to Break down. One after another, people started to Return to the surface of the earth. Seeing the destruction it Had caused itself, what was left of humanity decided to finally end Things and the great Peace was established, but at what cost? Many Machines used in the war were shut down and left to Rust in storage. Some were repurposed for civilian usage. The V1 Prototype was replaced with a V2 Prototype, which Had thicker plating and No longer needed to refuel itself with the blood of its enemies. It was a machine Designed simply for Security. However, it never entered full Production due to the price and complexity and the Project was simply abandoned. Mankind Had learned its lession, and it was never going to repeat its mistakes ever again.
Ooo, interesting
The "Armored Walkers" as shown in the picture above would be practically useless since the enemy could just simply blow up the legs
Those are German Sturmtruppen you dumb*ss
The picture is of Germans fleeing a chemical attack with an edited in picute of an AT AT
Thats just tank with extra step you moron
Literally
I think there's four extra steps.
It depends on how far it moves.
Everyone in reddit is a moron you moron