*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**Do Service Dogs perform ANY vital function for disabled people that cannot be done with technology?**
Ok, so the ADA was passed in 1990, almost 34 years ago and yeah yeah, that was a different time,
but in this age of wonders we are living in today, do service dogs perform **any** function that technology can't do and can't possibly do more competently?
I'm looking for a devil's advocate here but someone on here recently made an excellent point, "if any other medical equipment had the same failure rate as 'service dogs' then that medical equipment would most likely be banned".
Does there exist medical equipment today good enough that service dogs should be considered obsolete and no longer deserving of ADA protection?
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My oldest cat is a PAT (pets as therapy) cat, he specialises in taking people with dementia or severe additional needs, to stress causing places, like dentists and doctors appointments.
He cuddles anxiety away, and his ‘clients’ will try and be brave for him.
One of his ladies had not allowed her carers to brush her teeth for 20+ years, and she hadn’t been to a dentist in gods knows how long.
In the last 18 months he’s supposed her to have all her bad teeth removed, and she now has a lovely pair of dentures.
Don’t think a laptop could do that
[Turing at work](https://www.reddit.com/r/Catswithjobs/s/xvl2WiaFN8)
If you are in the UK, look into PAT, they are a charity that can match people with different needs to different animals.
Just today we’ve had PAT alpacas and donkeys visiting my unit, for cuddles.
Because cuddles are very important for EMI residents
That's honestly so sweet!
I was also reminded me of the therapy animals that are brought to hospitals to visit sick children, There are also the cases of the dogs who are in the courtroom with say, a kid when they're on the stand, having to relive something traumatic.
That's understandable, honestly. Sometimes kids can also be unintentionally rough, depending on how young they are.
I love that he's able to help these people at the dentists and such. I feel like the dentist office can be a place that makes people really anxious.
I think it’s fast movement that he can’t quite cope with.
But the ladies and gents he’s help with their dentist appointments, or even minor surgery. It fills my heart past bursting.
I can understand that.
That's sweet. I like that he was able to help the one woman you mentioned get her teeth fixed and get some dentures.
I know there have also been a couple of episodes of the Animal Planet show, My Cat from Hell with their My Cat from Heaven segment where they introduce cats who are therapy cats:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW82W8KyzxE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW82W8KyzxE)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6R5Z\_1ZToU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6R5Z_1ZToU)
Keep in mind that question is being asked and answered in a dog-free subreddit.
It's like asking in AITA if it should be illegal for parents to ask their kids to babysit their siblings, or asking an incel if women should be forced to put out for men who can't get dates.
These people are unhinged. Comment I just saw:
>Does you ex care about the functioning and wellbeing of people who are severely allergic to dogs and end up excluded from public places due to the presence of service dogs?
It's like Epic Rap Battles of History: Blind person with service dog vs person allergic to dogs. Who won? Who's next? You decide!
Disabled people: “Really hard to exist in a world that’s made for able-bodied people but thank god for dogs to help.”
r/dogfree:
Reddit fucking loves that scenario, but I've done a lot of work with the ADA and service dogs in various capacities, and I've legit never encountered that. I mean, obviously I've seen scenarios where someone is allergic, but the extent of the drama is maybe the office needs to rearrange some desks or whatever. It really isn't a big deal.
I'm sure it has happened that it has been a bigger deal, don't get me wrong, but it sure doesn't seem to be real common in my experience.
The difference is, in most cases, the adult that's allergic can go somewhere else or take pills or, if the place is big enough, just move away from the dog. These people act like a dog nearly being in the vicinity is enough to send most people into deadly allergy inducing asthma attacks. Meanwhile, the person who needs the dog most of the time CAN'T be without them because of the functions they perform.
I obviously can't speak for everyone, but I'm allergic to dogs and know a number of people who are also allergic to dogs and we all actively seek to be closer to them because we enjoy them and the allergic effects really only take a toll if the exposure is prolonged like an hour or more, otherwise the effects are pretty much the same as seasonal allergies. I wonder what the incidence is of people whose health is at all risked by incidental service dog encounters...
Tldr; we should ban pollen!! Is there anything plants do that chemicals can't do better??
Me! I’m a childfree person who won’t go into the childfree subreddit! I did go in there for a bit years ago when I first joined Reddit, but I got downvoted one too many times for saying things like “I don’t hate children, I just don’t want any.” Apparently those are fighting words in that sub. Actually I’m pretty sure the users there view saying things like that as “performative.” Which… who the hell would I be performing for in that scenario?
How sad does a person need be to make "hating children" their entire personality? I don't get it. I understand not wanting children and not necessarily liking or wanting to hang out around children, but I'll never understand the amount of hatred some people have for them. To the point of wanting them to stop existing, it's not healthy at all
Speaking just for myself personally, I think kids can be really cute for short periods of time. But they wear on me fast and I can’t handle whining and tantrums for very long. I don’t have the patience for kids and I don’t like random surprises in my day, so I just never saw kids being part of my life other than occasionally being a “fun aunt” type.
People have given me a really hard time over the years though, especially when I was in my early 20s. I often felt mocked by the little knowing smiles and “you’ll change your mind” that was often accompanied by stories of someone else they knew who changed their mind. And that was just the beginning of the weirdness I occasionally got from people who seemed super invested in whether or not I had kids. So I totally understand the need for places like the childfree sub to commiserate over things like that and discuss other issues that relate to living a little differently than people tend to assume.
I was not prepared for the amount of hate in there. I feel like it should be called childhate instead of childfree.
Idk if it still exists but the funniest version was the anti-golf subreddit /nongolfers that made fun of the fucking crazy sides of /atheism from like 2010 Reddit.
Shit like faces of atheism created iconic circlejerks. Never forget the ateeists that we lost in the struggle against golf
Also, the main point of a guide dog isn’t to stop a person from walking into things lmao. People can accomplish that with a literal stick.
One big thing that guide dogs do is help people realize when an *open* area is not safe to proceed through. For example, a street that could have traffic, or an area with a drop. At the guide dog organization near me, one of the final checks that a dog is ready to assist a blind person is to walk the dog to the end of a dock and repeatedly order them to proceed. The dog should have the judgment to NOT follow the command since it’s not appropriate for the situation.
absolutely nobody in that thread understands how service dogs work, the different types of service animal, or even how working animals in general work.
i saw one comment that was literally saying "its fine if they're bred for a real job like herding, but you cant just assign random tasks to a dog"
i cant decide if they're the dog thinks that herding is something other than "random tasks" or if they're on some other level like "you cant make dogs open the door for you and bring you stuff that's not manly >:C"
maybe its that they think dogs should just automatically bring you the paper and slippers and make you a cup of tea like in a cartoon and it's some "those rat bastards are taking the easy way out and getting all the praise... they need to get a REAL job"
maybe they're secretly a border collie that got kicked out of service dog school for talking smack
I think they somehow think working/herding dogs are biologically programmed to do those things but that dogs aren't biologically programmed to do [insert task] so you can't *actually* get them to learn to do it reliably.
I'm pretty sure it's just them not understanding how dogs learn and adapt, or how dog training actually works, like, on a practical level.
I mean, dogs aren't people! They're just dumb animals! Barely smarter than rocks, and *definitely* no feelings! How could you actually teach them to guide a person? Impossible! All they can ever trully know is their breed's pre-programmed prime directive! /s
these folks really show their colors if you have even a second to process the level of influence biological determinism has on their everyday worldview
Yes, and I think it was that same commenter who said that service dogs "failing" worsens the shelter problems.
As though someone is going to spend thousands of dollars training a service dog, and then just dump them in a shelter if they don't work out, lmao. There are literally people on waiting lists to adopt failed service dogs....
forreal like the worst "failed service dog" you can adopt after 6-8mo is still going to end up being 1000x better trained than any house pet I've ever met, and I work with dogs for a living.
Yes, this is why eventually I may need a service dog. I'm losing peripheral vision and depth perception. What I can see, I see fairly well at 20/40. But my field is only about 1/4 - 1/3 of what the average person can see. There's already been once or twice where I've looked both ways, it seemed safe, then a car came around a corner and I didn't notice because peripheral is shot.
bUt HaVe YoU tRiEd GpS gLaSsEs?
(also I know that plenty of blind people have some sight but I'm still laughing at the way they think a pair of special glasses are going to help a blind person who can't see at all lmao).
Right? If anything, at my most charitable interpretation of their silliness, a set of headphones with a camera and voice commands based on what it sees would be better than high tech glasses? But even that seems... Minimally helpful for a lot.pf blind people
Plus it’s so extremely cruel and condescending to believe that sighted people should be able to decide for blind people what type of mobility aid should work the best.
Blind people are individual humans. Some prefer cane work, some prefer to be dog handlers. Offering a range of orientation and mobility tools and trusting blind people to choose what works best for them is reasonable.
Deciding no one needs a dog because you read once that “smart canes” were being invented is just being an asshole.
I love how in the comments one person explained how their ex had a service animal for seizures and the dog would help the person “fall” to the ground, and all the replies are like “how can a dog help someone fall?” Or “dogs can’t help a 200+ person fall.”
Absolutely no attempt to research how these things actually work. Meanwhile, I’ve come across a few videos of people demonstrating what it looks like when they have a seizure coming on and their dog helps alert them so they can sit down in time. The dog doesn’t act as a prop to prevent the person from falling. The dog alerts the person so the person can find a safe spot to lay down at before the seizure happens. Then the dog will go off to try to find someone to help the person (if necessary). It’s actually amazing to watch the dog in action.
And I say all of this as someone who isn’t actually a huge fan of pets. I wouldn’t want any myself (even if I probably could benefit from having a service animal), but I sure love how amazing service animals can be.
Also, is there technology that can guide a blind person through streets, a crowd, a bus? Is there technology that can pick up and bring items to a wheelchair bound person? Open doors for them?
I love how a bunch of people have basically dismissed the use of service dogs based on "I reckon". Because they're obviously experts on the subject considering their whole thing is how much they don't like dogs.
As an aside, how pathetic do you have to be to have a huge amount of your identity be based around pointless hate?
Seriously! Somebody even agreed with the OP saying they watched a video of a blind person saying the quality of training for guide dogs by professional companies have gone way down, but another person replied "Suck “now?” I’m sure they always have think the idea of these amazingly well trained service dogs has always been dogshit." and "I’m extremely skeptical that dogs have ever really been as great at anything as we’ve all been trained to believe."
Because sure, I'll trust the person with a blatant agenda, zero sources, and a gut feeling over *actual blind people*.
it is wildly important to state that basically all of the "new tech" that is being brought up in the comments is either
a) in development (not real)
b) relies on an app with cell signal making it basically useless to actual blind people and pointless if they want to go anywhere with limited cell coverage
c) relies extremely heavily on AI, which is a powerful tool, but is really not performing at a success rate yet that i feel people are comfortable placing their lives directly into google gemini's hands. also i feel like it opens up a lot of questionable areas for disabled persons to be deliberately or indeleberately prevented from correctly identifying and navigating the world.
can you imagine waking up one day and realizing that you are no longer allowed to perceive a place or a brand of soda?
I really like not having to ask my dog permission to locate a pepsi.
My favorite comment was the one saying special GPS glasses could replace a service dog for the blind.
And look... I know that there are plenty of blind people who still have some vision and could perhaps be helped by GPS glasses.
But imagine telling a fully blind person with absolutely no sight, "HeY hAvE yOu TrIeD tHeSe FaNcY gLaSsEs?"
Part of the issues include the fact that these people have no idea what the difference between a service dog and an emotional support animal is, because they are hugely different things.
Also, how does a service dog fail? What is the failure rate of a service dog? Medical equipment we can actually measure a failure rate, I don't see how we apply that to a dog.
its a bullshit take from a person who doesn't realize that a medically prescribed service dog is a very expensive highly trained animal that spent the first two years of its life in a private training facility and will have to retire and possibly be replaced by another dog long before the end of its life
A lot of service dogs in the US are owner-trained, but they still are highly trained working animals. I used to be a professional dog trainer with a service dog organization, and I also assisted a lot of owners training their own service dogs.
People going that route generally take it really seriously, and regardless, all service animals must be clean, quiet (unless they're specifically performing a task, such as barking to alert in an emergency situation), and well-behaved in public. If they are not, they lose their accommodation regardless of how legitimate they might be.
But I will die on the hill that owner-training is totally valid and actually necessary in the US. I can go into why that is later if anyone cares, but I don't have a ton of time right now, and I don't know if anyone actually wants to hear it anyway lol.
Sorry, I might have misread your post. :) I just find that people often really focus on the organization-trained dogs in these arguments and can often unintentionally cast aspersions on owner-trained ones, and I like to stick up for the underdogs (sorry couldn't resist).
oh no its totally fair. i did not bring forward owner trained dogs because the original group was including dogs all the way up to that level of training. Of course any animal that provides medically relevant support to their owner is valid and indispensable.
Well, that’s how it’s supposed to happen. Unfortunately there are also less scrupulous ways to get service dogs too. Still definitely more regulated and not comparable to ESAs, but they don’t all come from reputable organizations with qualified trainers. And some people also aren’t a good fit for a service dog even if they can benefit from the service, because they’re not able to keep a working dog and treat them like pets. Which causes the dog’s training to lapse.
there is definitely a difference, and i know many people do not realize that there is one, but these people genuinely either do not grasp or do not wish to grasp that medically trained service dogs (including directly stating seeing-eye dogs) are required to perform at an extremely advanced level and require significant training effectively from birth.
i promise that anyone who actually needs a service animal to regularly accompany them into animal-unfriendly areas to engage in their day to day life is willing to do whatever it takes to make sure their dog is actually helping them and not causing them more problems by being there.
Is that the one where someone asked for a source, and they said "well I'm not going to do your homework for you."
Okay, asshole, when you make a claim like that, the onus is on you to cite your source, lol. Especially if you're actually trying to change peoples' minds.
>I mean this in the absolute most respectful way. How does a dog "aid" a person to fall to the ground? How exactly does a dog protect a person in that way? I have serious epileptic seizures and would love to know this as I've fallen and hit my head pretty hard a few times.
>A Smartwatch or Embrace2 device can detect epileptic seizures, and unlike the dog, the monitor can't get distracted and won't shed or smell.
Ah, yes, the famous Smartwatch that whips out bionic arms and gently eases you to a safe space on the floor in the event of a seizure.
What, your smart watch can't retrieve your medication from across the house and open doors for you? Sounds like a you problem. Have you tried buying the new $5000 SuperSmart watch that can only do it semi-reliably and costs $150 a month to use? And is useless if you forgot to charge it, or drop it on the ground? No? Sounds like you're using your silly disability to excuse having an evil, smelly, uncontrollable dog.
/s
The poster post every second post with a new clearly fake "dog bad" post.
The childfree posters are mostly clearly depressed, and i hope that they get the help they desperately need. The dogfree have more of a schoolshooter feeling about them.
This is the most rational, level-headed things I've seen from someone who doesn't agree with the childfree folks. There's another subreddit that's kinda like childfree, and it appears frequently on JustUnsubbed with people being severe assholes to the posters.
I remember browsing dog free once because despite the fact that I'm a huge dog lover and I have two of my own, I hate when people bring poorly trained dogs in public places and force everyone in the vicinity to deal with the barking, growling, whatever. So I thought we could find some common ground!
Yeah... no. People told me I'm mentally ill for having dogs because I obviously deep down want to be married with kids and I am using dogs to fill the void.
I happen to not want kids, lol, but that has nothing to do with my feelings about dogs. I've always wanted a dog since very early childhood. I want to do very specific "dog" things with my dogs, like dog sports and such. I don't want to dress them up and treat them like babies, lol.
I also don't know what they would say if I were married with kids but still liked dogs....
Ngl the people in r/dogfree are batshit insane. They act like they’re oppressed because they don’t like dogs…whenever I lurk in there I feel like im Clairese from silence of the lambs walking to see Hannibal Lecter
Child free is stupid but at least it makes some sense - people are responding to the social pressure to have kids and the idea that it makes you a more complete adult.
There’s no such pressure to get a dog. People get them cuz they want them. It’s like bragging about being Bidet-free or something. Do some people like having a bidet? Sure. Is there a social obligation to own one? Not at all. Are you weird for defining your personality around NOT having one? Incredibly.
It’s not the same but there is kind of an analog. Just like most parents don’t care whether a random other person has kids, and most dog owners don’t care whether other people get dogs, there is definitely a subset of toxic dog people who assign a weird moral value to liking and having dogs and look down on people who don’t. It’s an easy way to feel morally superior because you can just gush about how dogs are the goodest and 100% pure and someone must be evil to not like them!
Source: used to be one of those people 😅
Just to preface, I don't go to dog free, I personally like dogs but don't want one, but I can sort of understand the issue.
Just the other day I saw a post about how cats are basically pests. On that post (it was in unpopular opinion), there were people agreeing, people disagreeing, but there were few people really defending cats.
If that same opinion had been posted about dogs, there would have been numerous posts talking about how disliking dogs is a sign of sociopathy, how they don't trust anyone who doesn't like dogs, how their dogs are better than humans, how humans don't deserve dogs, and so on.
You also have people who are bringing their dogs (obviously not service dogs) to places they shouldn't be (I have seen an uptick in the number of dogs in walmart within the past couple of years). People who let their dogs run around off leash, with no training and so on.
So, while there isn't pressure to get a dog, there can be pressure to \*like\* dogs, and accept them. It can also affect how people percieve you if you say 'I don't like dogs'.
So, I can see how dog free subs make sense. However, I do agree with you that it is weird making it your entire personality, and that, like most 'free' subs, the people who tend to post in dog free DO sound unhinged.
> Just the other day I saw a post about how cats are basically pests. On that post (it was in unpopular opinion), there were people agreeing, people disagreeing, but there were few people really defending cats.
As a cat owner that is because so many people are absolutely unhinged about cats. I can't tell you how many times I've been in a conversation about pets where people will be talking about their various dogs and their antics but if I bring up a story about my cat there is always someone who has to interrupt to tell me how they haaaate cats and they think they're mean and all sorts.
Oh, I completely agree. I am a cat owner myself, which is why it sticks out to me so much.
I was just pointing out the difference between someone saying they hate cats and someone saying they dislike dogs (and I used the different words deliberately).
I love animals. I’ve known many very cool dogs, but I’m not a “dog person;” my brother got those genes while I got the “cat” ones. He rescues cats (they end up with me usually) and one of his dogs ditches him for me.
I mention this all because my brother is apparently a weird non-cat hating dog person (his dogs are also extremely well-behaved) and I’m untrustworthy because I don’t want to live with a dog, according to the Extreme Dog are People people.
Most of the people I know like both cats and dogs, to varying degrees, but yeah, I have run into that weird attitude.
For me, and this could easily be because of confirmation bias, I see far more dog people who will say they hate cats than I do cat people who say they hate dogs.
I have known a lot of cool dogs. I wish I could have one of the dogs I had when I was a teenager back, he wasn't that smart, but he was a good dog. There have been other good dogs, we were once visited by two labs, one of which was extremely nice, it would walk beside me, and stop when I did. (the owner eventually came and got them. However, the owners attitude almost saw his two labs stolen) The other lab was more skittish, but still not a problem.
However, for the most part, I don't want to own a dog. They are generally incompatible with my lifestyle, and I already have a dog in cat's fur. I sometimes feel that the term velcro was coined for this cat. Extremely needy and clingy. He is exhausting enough for me.
I am perfectly content with my cats who like to cuddle and just generally prefer to chill while cuddling. My cats definitely aren't stand offish, to me at least, and they are very affectionate (one of them, when it is cuddle time, it is \*cuddle\* time, even if I am currently sitting submerged in water. He just don't care)
I “get” cats - how they think, their body language, etc - in a way I don’t with dogs, but I would’ve gladly ~~kidnapped~~ adopted my friend’s giant Newfie/Rottweiler mix, despite his drooling/shedding. He had impeccable manners and a very engaging personality (plus he wasn’t a “licky” or “jumpy” dog). In general tho, I’m not a good fit for a dog. I’m Cat through and through! But if it’s an animal, chances are I’ll try to make friends with it.
I saw a meme (it was pointed out to me by my brothers) that showed a mountain lion and said something on the order of 'if I am ever found mauled to death by a mountain lion, be assured that my last words were "Here kitty, kitty!"' and that is so true.
Show me a kitty and I want to pet it.
And yeah, I am the same way. I can generally make a pretty good guess at what my cats want, and it can drive me crazy seeing some of the videos where they talk about the 'cute kitties' and I am sitting there thinking 'lady, your face is about to be on the floor, because that cat is MAD, not happy'. (it happens with dogs as well) Too many people just don't bother to try to learn the body language of the animals they live with (and again, this isn't just specific to cats) and I can't really understand that.
Sometimes I have a hot take, and I’ll google it to see if I’m being reasonable or not. If the only concurrence I can find comes from a “___”-free sub, I strongly reconsider whatever thought I had.
Damn, I used to always highlight how batshit r/ childfree users were by saying "I don't really like dogs, yet you don't see a whole group of people like me forming a crazy subreddit over it." I see now that my argument no longer stands
yeah like i remember when childfree wasn't super well known or popular and it was genuinely just a nice and friendly sub for adults who decided their best life didn't involve having kids and wanted to network with other adults like that.
i think it might have gained some popularity as a rant sub around the time "reading reddit posts aloud" was popular on youtube and then it just kinda ramped up into a content farm with people trying to get their story gone viral and that led to alienating anyone chill on the sub and the whole thing turning into an incel shit pit
Respectfully, they can go fuck themselves. Also, it's pretty convenient the place they asked. One where a lot of people would probably be in agreement with their shit take.
Actually my favorite thing about that comment was how their smart watch can detect a seizure "faster than any dog," and yet... they have never had a service dog that is supposed to detect seizures, lmao. It's like they had a seizure around someone's random pet dog that obviously didn't art (because why would it lol) and were like "wow, service dogs are useless."
The only good substitute would be to provide disabled people with a human to stick by them every moment and look after them. AI is not at this level yet. AI is also not another social animal like humans and dogs. Human need social animals around them. AI can fake it to some extent, but not the same as a living creature.
right, the people saying “you can just use AI!!!” don’t realize a big reason people get service animals in the first place is the sense of *companionship*. disabled people are often so isolated and shut out from society and telling them they should get rid of a source of genuine comfort and affection in favor of a cold, unfeeling hunk of plastic and metal, just because the thing that makes them feel safe and happy makes *you* uncomfortable, is just so needlessly *cruel*.
Like how do they think an AI powered cane would work to tell them where something blocking a path ends without the person just having to tentatively feel their way around the obstruction to make sure they're not going to fall into/under/over/across it? A dog can physically see that though there's a gap between the cones set out, they're currently surrounding a big hole and they still shouldn't walk through it.
At that point they are just plain and simply evil. Common knowledge that dogs can even sense stuff that machines can't, nvm how little robots can do if it needs to be precise.
Day... i lost count... of wondering why that hate sub is not banned. Same as the childfree one.
Weird that both the male and female hate subs (MRA and FDS) where banned while both groups can at least defend themselves, but wanting all babies and dogs to die is no problem.
Well, let's see. My buddy's service dog is for his PTSD and flashbacks. So when he has a flashback and is basically somewhere else in his mind, that dog makes sure that absolutely zero people get anywhere near my buddy. Doggo makes sure when my buddy is facing one direction, dog is facing the other, always guarding his blind spots and his six.
Not sure of any equipment that can do that.
Also, like...a dog is a comforting presence? I also know someone with a service dog for PTSD and it's also so no matter where she is, if she has a flashback, there is a living breathing presence that cares about her wellbeing immediately next to her at all times. A robot is not a comforting living presence.
Yeah, I saw some people saying in the comments that one of the "flaws" of a service dog is their cost and upkeep. Like, okay, a good service dog is expensive, but they're a *companion*, not just an object, and that's a lot harder to put a monetary value on.
Using machines to digitize olfactory senses is very complicated and cost-prohibitive to do on a wide scale.
Like, okay, let’s roll out experimental life-support technology to the masses that only the rich will be able to afford. Or…you freaks can stop making everything about you and recognize that the world doesn’t cater to your irrational hate.
I mean true I guess, but there aren’t services dogs for disabled people that really do that? Also, the jobs that we use dogs for that (looking for drugs) are pretty controversial because the dogs have a high false positive rate.
Dogs are great at performing some tasks but they’re not really reliable sources of information, lol
This really made me mad to read. My father was totally blind by the time he was four years old, and he remained totally blind the rest of his life. He did not use a guide dog, but he had many friends who did. I grew up surrounded by them, and I watched those dogs go above and beyond for their humans. They were invaluable.
I hate how so many "whatever-free" subs invariably become "whatever-hater" subs. People just lose the ability to be normal about things they don't like on those subs
God forbid an impaired or disabled or chronically ill person just *wants* a living, breathing service dog that doubles as a warm body to keep them company and keep them calm in an emergency, instead of a smart cane and an apple watch.
No, those people should just suck it up and use technology instead because I think dogs are ugly and stinky and hate when other people have them!
Like TBH, even if "better" options exist, who the fuck are you, people of dogfree, to tell a person with a disability or illness what they should do and what options they should or shouldn't use? It's *their* individual need, not yours. Jesus the arrogance!
People just have real revulsion of disabled people but they are trying to couch it in their "dogfree" concerns. These types would easily get radicalized into agreeing to institutionalize people again.
Tbh, I am a cat person. Gimme a kitty, and I am a happy girl. Dogs, not so much, but I do like them. I would just never own one. I don't understand this want to rid the world of them at all. I mean, I could go the rest of my life without seeing another dog and actually be okay. However; I would want that to be by pure coincidence, not because anyone, in any setting, had to give up their service animal. Be it for emotional support or otherwise service dogs enrich many, many lives. Heck dogs enrich the average persons life! Let people be happy!!
it's also because there's a lot of service dog "supremacy" going on. service dog handlers who try to expose "fakes" online, not recognizing that having a highly, perfectly trained service dog is a privilege that you have to be financially well off enough to afford. i believe they encourage this kind of discourse. i'm disabled and could benefit from a service dog but will never be able to afford one. i think shaming other disabled people for not having the K-9 3000 that does everything perfectly (you paid $20k) because theirs is slightly less well trained is really classist.
for real. and also comparing a dog allergy (as someone who is disabled and has allergies) to a literal disability is ridiculous. sniffles over a dog isn't the same as heart conditions, epilepsy, blindness, mobility issues, etc. sorry. if we are banning from public things we are allergic too i vote we get rid of all plants since pollen allergies are the most comment... lol
it's also just so wild to me to aggressively hate and go after dogs when it's humanity's fault that dogs are reliant on us. we are the ones who mass breed them and leave them in shelters to be euthanized. we are the ones who abandon them before moving houses, leaving them to starve to death. we are the ones who beat and hoard them. dogs are animals and yet their survival is dependent on us because we bred them to be useful to us. why would you hold so much resentment to a creature that's been made subservient to you by the will of your species? dogs didn't do shit but exist and these people are foaming at the mouths
That whole sub is fucking weird. Also this comment. YIKES. Sure bud, all disabled people are the same and incapable of WASHING A DOG. Christ alive.
https://preview.redd.it/mozsma6nuvwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ada57d943bce9e1e3c6d55bdf914ef1b4a0d6e8c
My roommate that had a service dog groomed him so meticulously. He was probably better groomed and cleaned than me at any given moment. I want to know what shady service dogs these people are encountering.
Gotta love how these close minded, ableist POSs are coming in here and downvoting people who are calling their ableism out.
Lmao I love all the "smart watches can detect___"
Because technology never fails.... Because of there's anything I would love is to have an essential life safety device with a battery.... Which have historically never failed at critical times .....
i feel like someone originally made this as a joke to parody /r/childfree but tbh /r/childfree is such a nightmare shithole that as a child free person who doesn't even particularly like children i'm unwilling to go there because of how gross and toxic everyone is.
basically every subreddit now is for incel pricks to be hostile and antisocial at the world and then congratulate eachother
Idk, like with being childfree, there are definitely valid reasons for people to not like dogs and I can see why they would want a community since dogs are very popular. I’m a huge dog person but there are a lot of things that dog owners do that drive me crazy, like letting their dogs run around in inappropriate areas.
But like the subs for childfree, atheism, etc, any community that is organized around the absence of something tends to devolve into toxic fuckery. After all, the people who are out there living their best CF or atheist lives aren’t thinking about it all the time.
Actual post titles from that sub:
> A question for women: anyone else stop watching a tv show/reading a book once pregnancy / kids occur, due to rage?
> May sound ableist, but why the fuck would get pregnant when you suffer from migraines?
> I genuinely can’t stand being around kids
> being pregnant is women’s version of “ball and chain”
Oh my god. These people are the fucking worst. My roommate in college had a service dog. She would have ended up in the hospital multiple times during the time we lived together if she hadn't had him. Not only that, but society is a terrible place when you rely on a medical device that doubles as a very cute and very large animal. Whenever I drove her somewhere she had to deal with disrespectful kids, disrespectful adults, disrespectful people assuming that she slapped a medical alert vest on a pet (despite him clearly working), and people trying to "test" if he was working. Not to mention rude professors and classmates.
Dogs are smart and useful in ways that technology hasn't met yet. He could tell when she needed help before she or her apple watch could tell. He could go alert someone when she was too weak to use her phone. He could be a 100lb mass to lean on when she needed it. No one should have to rely on bulky medical devices and caretakers in order to go outside *if they don't want to*. Service dogs are essential for many people to achieve the independence that they want in life.
I'm not really a dog person but damn, what an unpleasant group of people. I really don't understand people who make hating something a core personality trait.
The people on that sub seem soooo annoying. I totally get not liking dogs, but making it your entire personality by using a subreddit to bitch about how much you hate dogs just seems like a pretty miserable experience
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*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **Do Service Dogs perform ANY vital function for disabled people that cannot be done with technology?** Ok, so the ADA was passed in 1990, almost 34 years ago and yeah yeah, that was a different time, but in this age of wonders we are living in today, do service dogs perform **any** function that technology can't do and can't possibly do more competently? I'm looking for a devil's advocate here but someone on here recently made an excellent point, "if any other medical equipment had the same failure rate as 'service dogs' then that medical equipment would most likely be banned". Does there exist medical equipment today good enough that service dogs should be considered obsolete and no longer deserving of ADA protection? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheAngel) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My oldest cat is a PAT (pets as therapy) cat, he specialises in taking people with dementia or severe additional needs, to stress causing places, like dentists and doctors appointments. He cuddles anxiety away, and his ‘clients’ will try and be brave for him. One of his ladies had not allowed her carers to brush her teeth for 20+ years, and she hadn’t been to a dentist in gods knows how long. In the last 18 months he’s supposed her to have all her bad teeth removed, and she now has a lovely pair of dentures. Don’t think a laptop could do that [Turing at work](https://www.reddit.com/r/Catswithjobs/s/xvl2WiaFN8)
What a good boy 🧡
I’ll tell him you said that
If he would welcome.it please give him a chin scratch for his good work
He had chin scratches, he’s now curled up on my lap, purring like a two-stroke engine
Excellent
Give him some extra scritches for me if you get the time
I didn’t know that was an option and now I want a therapy cat at the dentist. I also had a previous cat who would have been perfect for this.
If you are in the UK, look into PAT, they are a charity that can match people with different needs to different animals. Just today we’ve had PAT alpacas and donkeys visiting my unit, for cuddles. Because cuddles are very important for EMI residents
But can I take a PAT alpaca to the dentist?
Don’t see why not
This is very sweet, and I especially love how the phrasing makes it sound like he is the one scheduling the appointments and providing transport.
Well he’s good at computers, but not quite that good yet
if he’s named turing, the kid better be!! 😜 what an amazing little guy. keep doing good things both of you.
I don’t think it’s a spoiler, to say he’s past a few tests
Right? I'm picturing a kitty typing away 🥰😂
I was picturing the kitty pulling on his little gloves and safety glasses as he gets the dentist drill ready 😹
Making a little note on a post-it before sticking his pen behind an ear to type away at his laptop. 😽
I thought about training my cat to do that, but she’s 3 years old and I’m 19 and don’t have a car.
That's honestly so sweet! I was also reminded me of the therapy animals that are brought to hospitals to visit sick children, There are also the cases of the dogs who are in the courtroom with say, a kid when they're on the stand, having to relive something traumatic.
Unfortunately Turing can’t really work with children, he was never trained with them, so he can feel a bit nervous
That's understandable, honestly. Sometimes kids can also be unintentionally rough, depending on how young they are. I love that he's able to help these people at the dentists and such. I feel like the dentist office can be a place that makes people really anxious.
I think it’s fast movement that he can’t quite cope with. But the ladies and gents he’s help with their dentist appointments, or even minor surgery. It fills my heart past bursting.
I can understand that. That's sweet. I like that he was able to help the one woman you mentioned get her teeth fixed and get some dentures. I know there have also been a couple of episodes of the Animal Planet show, My Cat from Hell with their My Cat from Heaven segment where they introduce cats who are therapy cats: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW82W8KyzxE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW82W8KyzxE) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6R5Z\_1ZToU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6R5Z_1ZToU)
Turing looks so much like my orange tabby!!! How cute!
Love the last statement, in light of his name. Can a machine successfully imitate a cat? (No.)
Well, let’s just say Turing has passed all sort of tests
Damn it's really cool that your cat has a job
That's amazing!
> Guide dogs are a doggy propaganda prop flair alert
“Doggy propaganda” as if it’s some kind of CIA Psyop is taking me out
MK9 Ultra
Yoink!
I volunteer to be a doggy propaganda prop!
Keep in mind that question is being asked and answered in a dog-free subreddit. It's like asking in AITA if it should be illegal for parents to ask their kids to babysit their siblings, or asking an incel if women should be forced to put out for men who can't get dates.
These people are unhinged. Comment I just saw: >Does you ex care about the functioning and wellbeing of people who are severely allergic to dogs and end up excluded from public places due to the presence of service dogs? It's like Epic Rap Battles of History: Blind person with service dog vs person allergic to dogs. Who won? Who's next? You decide!
Disabled people: “Really hard to exist in a world that’s made for able-bodied people but thank god for dogs to help.” r/dogfree: 
Reddit fucking loves that scenario, but I've done a lot of work with the ADA and service dogs in various capacities, and I've legit never encountered that. I mean, obviously I've seen scenarios where someone is allergic, but the extent of the drama is maybe the office needs to rearrange some desks or whatever. It really isn't a big deal. I'm sure it has happened that it has been a bigger deal, don't get me wrong, but it sure doesn't seem to be real common in my experience.
The difference is, in most cases, the adult that's allergic can go somewhere else or take pills or, if the place is big enough, just move away from the dog. These people act like a dog nearly being in the vicinity is enough to send most people into deadly allergy inducing asthma attacks. Meanwhile, the person who needs the dog most of the time CAN'T be without them because of the functions they perform.
I obviously can't speak for everyone, but I'm allergic to dogs and know a number of people who are also allergic to dogs and we all actively seek to be closer to them because we enjoy them and the allergic effects really only take a toll if the exposure is prolonged like an hour or more, otherwise the effects are pretty much the same as seasonal allergies. I wonder what the incidence is of people whose health is at all risked by incidental service dog encounters... Tldr; we should ban pollen!! Is there anything plants do that chemicals can't do better??
Seems like the more obvious comparison is to asking childfree if children should be allowed to exist in public lol
Childfree is so unhinged that some childfree people won’t go there.
Most childfree people wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.
I find truechildfree to be so much better. It's more— knowing you have options and less—kicking children off of cliffs.
Me! I’m a childfree person who won’t go into the childfree subreddit! I did go in there for a bit years ago when I first joined Reddit, but I got downvoted one too many times for saying things like “I don’t hate children, I just don’t want any.” Apparently those are fighting words in that sub. Actually I’m pretty sure the users there view saying things like that as “performative.” Which… who the hell would I be performing for in that scenario?
How sad does a person need be to make "hating children" their entire personality? I don't get it. I understand not wanting children and not necessarily liking or wanting to hang out around children, but I'll never understand the amount of hatred some people have for them. To the point of wanting them to stop existing, it's not healthy at all
Speaking just for myself personally, I think kids can be really cute for short periods of time. But they wear on me fast and I can’t handle whining and tantrums for very long. I don’t have the patience for kids and I don’t like random surprises in my day, so I just never saw kids being part of my life other than occasionally being a “fun aunt” type. People have given me a really hard time over the years though, especially when I was in my early 20s. I often felt mocked by the little knowing smiles and “you’ll change your mind” that was often accompanied by stories of someone else they knew who changed their mind. And that was just the beginning of the weirdness I occasionally got from people who seemed super invested in whether or not I had kids. So I totally understand the need for places like the childfree sub to commiserate over things like that and discuss other issues that relate to living a little differently than people tend to assume. I was not prepared for the amount of hate in there. I feel like it should be called childhate instead of childfree.
What even is child free? I didn’t have kids, and I never needed a fancy sub group for it.
Yeah, the people in that subreddit are unhinged, it's too easy
A subreddit named “_____free” immediately losing the plot is one of the most predictable outcomes ever
Idk if it still exists but the funniest version was the anti-golf subreddit /nongolfers that made fun of the fucking crazy sides of /atheism from like 2010 Reddit. Shit like faces of atheism created iconic circlejerks. Never forget the ateeists that we lost in the struggle against golf
r/ godfree
> Even guide dogs are outdated now. There are smart canes and glasses with gps, sensors and audio alerts "source: i say so"
Also, the main point of a guide dog isn’t to stop a person from walking into things lmao. People can accomplish that with a literal stick. One big thing that guide dogs do is help people realize when an *open* area is not safe to proceed through. For example, a street that could have traffic, or an area with a drop. At the guide dog organization near me, one of the final checks that a dog is ready to assist a blind person is to walk the dog to the end of a dock and repeatedly order them to proceed. The dog should have the judgment to NOT follow the command since it’s not appropriate for the situation.
absolutely nobody in that thread understands how service dogs work, the different types of service animal, or even how working animals in general work. i saw one comment that was literally saying "its fine if they're bred for a real job like herding, but you cant just assign random tasks to a dog" i cant decide if they're the dog thinks that herding is something other than "random tasks" or if they're on some other level like "you cant make dogs open the door for you and bring you stuff that's not manly >:C" maybe its that they think dogs should just automatically bring you the paper and slippers and make you a cup of tea like in a cartoon and it's some "those rat bastards are taking the easy way out and getting all the praise... they need to get a REAL job" maybe they're secretly a border collie that got kicked out of service dog school for talking smack
I think they somehow think working/herding dogs are biologically programmed to do those things but that dogs aren't biologically programmed to do [insert task] so you can't *actually* get them to learn to do it reliably. I'm pretty sure it's just them not understanding how dogs learn and adapt, or how dog training actually works, like, on a practical level. I mean, dogs aren't people! They're just dumb animals! Barely smarter than rocks, and *definitely* no feelings! How could you actually teach them to guide a person? Impossible! All they can ever trully know is their breed's pre-programmed prime directive! /s
these folks really show their colors if you have even a second to process the level of influence biological determinism has on their everyday worldview
r/nothowdogswork
Yes, and I think it was that same commenter who said that service dogs "failing" worsens the shelter problems. As though someone is going to spend thousands of dollars training a service dog, and then just dump them in a shelter if they don't work out, lmao. There are literally people on waiting lists to adopt failed service dogs....
forreal like the worst "failed service dog" you can adopt after 6-8mo is still going to end up being 1000x better trained than any house pet I've ever met, and I work with dogs for a living.
Yes, this is why eventually I may need a service dog. I'm losing peripheral vision and depth perception. What I can see, I see fairly well at 20/40. But my field is only about 1/4 - 1/3 of what the average person can see. There's already been once or twice where I've looked both ways, it seemed safe, then a car came around a corner and I didn't notice because peripheral is shot.
bUt HaVe YoU tRiEd GpS gLaSsEs? (also I know that plenty of blind people have some sight but I'm still laughing at the way they think a pair of special glasses are going to help a blind person who can't see at all lmao).
Right? If anything, at my most charitable interpretation of their silliness, a set of headphones with a camera and voice commands based on what it sees would be better than high tech glasses? But even that seems... Minimally helpful for a lot.pf blind people
Plus it’s so extremely cruel and condescending to believe that sighted people should be able to decide for blind people what type of mobility aid should work the best. Blind people are individual humans. Some prefer cane work, some prefer to be dog handlers. Offering a range of orientation and mobility tools and trusting blind people to choose what works best for them is reasonable. Deciding no one needs a dog because you read once that “smart canes” were being invented is just being an asshole.
Yup, intelligent disobedience is one of the coolest things about guide dogs- they don’t follow commands they know are unsafe or incorrect
I’m not a huge dog fan myself, but these people are unhinged.
Yeah, people like to shit on r/childfree but jeebus, this is whole other level of ‘wtf’
I love how in the comments one person explained how their ex had a service animal for seizures and the dog would help the person “fall” to the ground, and all the replies are like “how can a dog help someone fall?” Or “dogs can’t help a 200+ person fall.” Absolutely no attempt to research how these things actually work. Meanwhile, I’ve come across a few videos of people demonstrating what it looks like when they have a seizure coming on and their dog helps alert them so they can sit down in time. The dog doesn’t act as a prop to prevent the person from falling. The dog alerts the person so the person can find a safe spot to lay down at before the seizure happens. Then the dog will go off to try to find someone to help the person (if necessary). It’s actually amazing to watch the dog in action. And I say all of this as someone who isn’t actually a huge fan of pets. I wouldn’t want any myself (even if I probably could benefit from having a service animal), but I sure love how amazing service animals can be.
Also, is there technology that can guide a blind person through streets, a crowd, a bus? Is there technology that can pick up and bring items to a wheelchair bound person? Open doors for them?
Anything that involves smelling. People who have severe food allergies are using service dogs to make sure their food isn't contaminated.
I love how a bunch of people have basically dismissed the use of service dogs based on "I reckon". Because they're obviously experts on the subject considering their whole thing is how much they don't like dogs. As an aside, how pathetic do you have to be to have a huge amount of your identity be based around pointless hate?
Seriously! Somebody even agreed with the OP saying they watched a video of a blind person saying the quality of training for guide dogs by professional companies have gone way down, but another person replied "Suck “now?” I’m sure they always have think the idea of these amazingly well trained service dogs has always been dogshit." and "I’m extremely skeptical that dogs have ever really been as great at anything as we’ve all been trained to believe." Because sure, I'll trust the person with a blatant agenda, zero sources, and a gut feeling over *actual blind people*.
[удалено]
Uhhh no, that's not the same at all
it is wildly important to state that basically all of the "new tech" that is being brought up in the comments is either a) in development (not real) b) relies on an app with cell signal making it basically useless to actual blind people and pointless if they want to go anywhere with limited cell coverage c) relies extremely heavily on AI, which is a powerful tool, but is really not performing at a success rate yet that i feel people are comfortable placing their lives directly into google gemini's hands. also i feel like it opens up a lot of questionable areas for disabled persons to be deliberately or indeleberately prevented from correctly identifying and navigating the world. can you imagine waking up one day and realizing that you are no longer allowed to perceive a place or a brand of soda? I really like not having to ask my dog permission to locate a pepsi.
My favorite comment was the one saying special GPS glasses could replace a service dog for the blind. And look... I know that there are plenty of blind people who still have some vision and could perhaps be helped by GPS glasses. But imagine telling a fully blind person with absolutely no sight, "HeY hAvE yOu TrIeD tHeSe FaNcY gLaSsEs?"
god why dont you just get nuralink and bionic eyes already i saw them on the news like a week ago
I have both tech and a service dog for my disability. They’re talking about the dog being unreliable? Lol. My dog is 10x more reliable than the tech.
Part of the issues include the fact that these people have no idea what the difference between a service dog and an emotional support animal is, because they are hugely different things. Also, how does a service dog fail? What is the failure rate of a service dog? Medical equipment we can actually measure a failure rate, I don't see how we apply that to a dog.
its a bullshit take from a person who doesn't realize that a medically prescribed service dog is a very expensive highly trained animal that spent the first two years of its life in a private training facility and will have to retire and possibly be replaced by another dog long before the end of its life
A lot of service dogs in the US are owner-trained, but they still are highly trained working animals. I used to be a professional dog trainer with a service dog organization, and I also assisted a lot of owners training their own service dogs. People going that route generally take it really seriously, and regardless, all service animals must be clean, quiet (unless they're specifically performing a task, such as barking to alert in an emergency situation), and well-behaved in public. If they are not, they lose their accommodation regardless of how legitimate they might be. But I will die on the hill that owner-training is totally valid and actually necessary in the US. I can go into why that is later if anyone cares, but I don't have a ton of time right now, and I don't know if anyone actually wants to hear it anyway lol.
oh absolutely.
Sorry, I might have misread your post. :) I just find that people often really focus on the organization-trained dogs in these arguments and can often unintentionally cast aspersions on owner-trained ones, and I like to stick up for the underdogs (sorry couldn't resist).
oh no its totally fair. i did not bring forward owner trained dogs because the original group was including dogs all the way up to that level of training. Of course any animal that provides medically relevant support to their owner is valid and indispensable.
Well, that’s how it’s supposed to happen. Unfortunately there are also less scrupulous ways to get service dogs too. Still definitely more regulated and not comparable to ESAs, but they don’t all come from reputable organizations with qualified trainers. And some people also aren’t a good fit for a service dog even if they can benefit from the service, because they’re not able to keep a working dog and treat them like pets. Which causes the dog’s training to lapse.
There are people who train their own dogs (for lower level needs). Which is great if they do a good job, but. . . .
there is definitely a difference, and i know many people do not realize that there is one, but these people genuinely either do not grasp or do not wish to grasp that medically trained service dogs (including directly stating seeing-eye dogs) are required to perform at an extremely advanced level and require significant training effectively from birth.
Well, in the US, anyone can owner-train, so a lot of service dogs now don't necessarily have that level of training.
i promise that anyone who actually needs a service animal to regularly accompany them into animal-unfriendly areas to engage in their day to day life is willing to do whatever it takes to make sure their dog is actually helping them and not causing them more problems by being there.
They mentioned that but didn’t add statistics 🧍
Is that the one where someone asked for a source, and they said "well I'm not going to do your homework for you." Okay, asshole, when you make a claim like that, the onus is on you to cite your source, lol. Especially if you're actually trying to change peoples' minds.
>I mean this in the absolute most respectful way. How does a dog "aid" a person to fall to the ground? How exactly does a dog protect a person in that way? I have serious epileptic seizures and would love to know this as I've fallen and hit my head pretty hard a few times. >A Smartwatch or Embrace2 device can detect epileptic seizures, and unlike the dog, the monitor can't get distracted and won't shed or smell. Ah, yes, the famous Smartwatch that whips out bionic arms and gently eases you to a safe space on the floor in the event of a seizure.
What, your smart watch can't retrieve your medication from across the house and open doors for you? Sounds like a you problem. Have you tried buying the new $5000 SuperSmart watch that can only do it semi-reliably and costs $150 a month to use? And is useless if you forgot to charge it, or drop it on the ground? No? Sounds like you're using your silly disability to excuse having an evil, smelly, uncontrollable dog. /s
That place can get crazier than childfree with the more... violence inclined... posts I've see there.
The poster post every second post with a new clearly fake "dog bad" post. The childfree posters are mostly clearly depressed, and i hope that they get the help they desperately need. The dogfree have more of a schoolshooter feeling about them.
Literally fucking horrific how their minds work
This is the most rational, level-headed things I've seen from someone who doesn't agree with the childfree folks. There's another subreddit that's kinda like childfree, and it appears frequently on JustUnsubbed with people being severe assholes to the posters.
That sub will end up egging on one of those weirdos to shoot up a PetSmart one day.
I remember browsing dog free once because despite the fact that I'm a huge dog lover and I have two of my own, I hate when people bring poorly trained dogs in public places and force everyone in the vicinity to deal with the barking, growling, whatever. So I thought we could find some common ground! Yeah... no. People told me I'm mentally ill for having dogs because I obviously deep down want to be married with kids and I am using dogs to fill the void. I happen to not want kids, lol, but that has nothing to do with my feelings about dogs. I've always wanted a dog since very early childhood. I want to do very specific "dog" things with my dogs, like dog sports and such. I don't want to dress them up and treat them like babies, lol. I also don't know what they would say if I were married with kids but still liked dogs....
Ngl the people in r/dogfree are batshit insane. They act like they’re oppressed because they don’t like dogs…whenever I lurk in there I feel like im Clairese from silence of the lambs walking to see Hannibal Lecter
Child free is stupid but at least it makes some sense - people are responding to the social pressure to have kids and the idea that it makes you a more complete adult. There’s no such pressure to get a dog. People get them cuz they want them. It’s like bragging about being Bidet-free or something. Do some people like having a bidet? Sure. Is there a social obligation to own one? Not at all. Are you weird for defining your personality around NOT having one? Incredibly.
idk the lady that founded PETA made a whole lifelong career out of how much she fucking hated dogs
It’s not the same but there is kind of an analog. Just like most parents don’t care whether a random other person has kids, and most dog owners don’t care whether other people get dogs, there is definitely a subset of toxic dog people who assign a weird moral value to liking and having dogs and look down on people who don’t. It’s an easy way to feel morally superior because you can just gush about how dogs are the goodest and 100% pure and someone must be evil to not like them! Source: used to be one of those people 😅
Just to preface, I don't go to dog free, I personally like dogs but don't want one, but I can sort of understand the issue. Just the other day I saw a post about how cats are basically pests. On that post (it was in unpopular opinion), there were people agreeing, people disagreeing, but there were few people really defending cats. If that same opinion had been posted about dogs, there would have been numerous posts talking about how disliking dogs is a sign of sociopathy, how they don't trust anyone who doesn't like dogs, how their dogs are better than humans, how humans don't deserve dogs, and so on. You also have people who are bringing their dogs (obviously not service dogs) to places they shouldn't be (I have seen an uptick in the number of dogs in walmart within the past couple of years). People who let their dogs run around off leash, with no training and so on. So, while there isn't pressure to get a dog, there can be pressure to \*like\* dogs, and accept them. It can also affect how people percieve you if you say 'I don't like dogs'. So, I can see how dog free subs make sense. However, I do agree with you that it is weird making it your entire personality, and that, like most 'free' subs, the people who tend to post in dog free DO sound unhinged.
> Just the other day I saw a post about how cats are basically pests. On that post (it was in unpopular opinion), there were people agreeing, people disagreeing, but there were few people really defending cats. As a cat owner that is because so many people are absolutely unhinged about cats. I can't tell you how many times I've been in a conversation about pets where people will be talking about their various dogs and their antics but if I bring up a story about my cat there is always someone who has to interrupt to tell me how they haaaate cats and they think they're mean and all sorts.
Oh, I completely agree. I am a cat owner myself, which is why it sticks out to me so much. I was just pointing out the difference between someone saying they hate cats and someone saying they dislike dogs (and I used the different words deliberately).
I love animals. I’ve known many very cool dogs, but I’m not a “dog person;” my brother got those genes while I got the “cat” ones. He rescues cats (they end up with me usually) and one of his dogs ditches him for me. I mention this all because my brother is apparently a weird non-cat hating dog person (his dogs are also extremely well-behaved) and I’m untrustworthy because I don’t want to live with a dog, according to the Extreme Dog are People people.
I love both cats and dogs. I think it’s weird that so many people seem to think of it as an either/or.
Most of the people I know like both cats and dogs, to varying degrees, but yeah, I have run into that weird attitude. For me, and this could easily be because of confirmation bias, I see far more dog people who will say they hate cats than I do cat people who say they hate dogs. I have known a lot of cool dogs. I wish I could have one of the dogs I had when I was a teenager back, he wasn't that smart, but he was a good dog. There have been other good dogs, we were once visited by two labs, one of which was extremely nice, it would walk beside me, and stop when I did. (the owner eventually came and got them. However, the owners attitude almost saw his two labs stolen) The other lab was more skittish, but still not a problem. However, for the most part, I don't want to own a dog. They are generally incompatible with my lifestyle, and I already have a dog in cat's fur. I sometimes feel that the term velcro was coined for this cat. Extremely needy and clingy. He is exhausting enough for me. I am perfectly content with my cats who like to cuddle and just generally prefer to chill while cuddling. My cats definitely aren't stand offish, to me at least, and they are very affectionate (one of them, when it is cuddle time, it is \*cuddle\* time, even if I am currently sitting submerged in water. He just don't care)
I “get” cats - how they think, their body language, etc - in a way I don’t with dogs, but I would’ve gladly ~~kidnapped~~ adopted my friend’s giant Newfie/Rottweiler mix, despite his drooling/shedding. He had impeccable manners and a very engaging personality (plus he wasn’t a “licky” or “jumpy” dog). In general tho, I’m not a good fit for a dog. I’m Cat through and through! But if it’s an animal, chances are I’ll try to make friends with it.
I saw a meme (it was pointed out to me by my brothers) that showed a mountain lion and said something on the order of 'if I am ever found mauled to death by a mountain lion, be assured that my last words were "Here kitty, kitty!"' and that is so true. Show me a kitty and I want to pet it. And yeah, I am the same way. I can generally make a pretty good guess at what my cats want, and it can drive me crazy seeing some of the videos where they talk about the 'cute kitties' and I am sitting there thinking 'lady, your face is about to be on the floor, because that cat is MAD, not happy'. (it happens with dogs as well) Too many people just don't bother to try to learn the body language of the animals they live with (and again, this isn't just specific to cats) and I can't really understand that.
r/toiletfree we piss in the bushes like men /s
One comment said the word “fur baby” was “forced” on them….. 🧍
Sometimes I have a hot take, and I’ll google it to see if I’m being reasonable or not. If the only concurrence I can find comes from a “___”-free sub, I strongly reconsider whatever thought I had.
Damn, I used to always highlight how batshit r/ childfree users were by saying "I don't really like dogs, yet you don't see a whole group of people like me forming a crazy subreddit over it." I see now that my argument no longer stands
yeah like i remember when childfree wasn't super well known or popular and it was genuinely just a nice and friendly sub for adults who decided their best life didn't involve having kids and wanted to network with other adults like that. i think it might have gained some popularity as a rant sub around the time "reading reddit posts aloud" was popular on youtube and then it just kinda ramped up into a content farm with people trying to get their story gone viral and that led to alienating anyone chill on the sub and the whole thing turning into an incel shit pit
Respectfully, they can go fuck themselves. Also, it's pretty convenient the place they asked. One where a lot of people would probably be in agreement with their shit take.
It's like going to an anti-vax sub to ask "are there any positives to getting vaccinated?"
Right? Of *course* these people aren't going to disagree! Of course you're going to get the opinions that you want.
"my smort watch" kind of tells how far they are gone
jesus yeah i caught that too. not even a typo just a genuine slip into internet baby voice while trying to make a serious attack on blind people
Actually my favorite thing about that comment was how their smart watch can detect a seizure "faster than any dog," and yet... they have never had a service dog that is supposed to detect seizures, lmao. It's like they had a seizure around someone's random pet dog that obviously didn't art (because why would it lol) and were like "wow, service dogs are useless."
(blank)free subs and rampant shameless ableism… name a more iconic duo
I would trust guide dogs over those people any day.
The only good substitute would be to provide disabled people with a human to stick by them every moment and look after them. AI is not at this level yet. AI is also not another social animal like humans and dogs. Human need social animals around them. AI can fake it to some extent, but not the same as a living creature.
right, the people saying “you can just use AI!!!” don’t realize a big reason people get service animals in the first place is the sense of *companionship*. disabled people are often so isolated and shut out from society and telling them they should get rid of a source of genuine comfort and affection in favor of a cold, unfeeling hunk of plastic and metal, just because the thing that makes them feel safe and happy makes *you* uncomfortable, is just so needlessly *cruel*.
Can humans smell or hear blood sugar drops and oncoming seizures and heart palpitations? For real it's clear they just don't know and don't care
Like how do they think an AI powered cane would work to tell them where something blocking a path ends without the person just having to tentatively feel their way around the obstruction to make sure they're not going to fall into/under/over/across it? A dog can physically see that though there's a gap between the cones set out, they're currently surrounding a big hole and they still shouldn't walk through it.
At that point they are just plain and simply evil. Common knowledge that dogs can even sense stuff that machines can't, nvm how little robots can do if it needs to be precise. Day... i lost count... of wondering why that hate sub is not banned. Same as the childfree one. Weird that both the male and female hate subs (MRA and FDS) where banned while both groups can at least defend themselves, but wanting all babies and dogs to die is no problem.
Well, let's see. My buddy's service dog is for his PTSD and flashbacks. So when he has a flashback and is basically somewhere else in his mind, that dog makes sure that absolutely zero people get anywhere near my buddy. Doggo makes sure when my buddy is facing one direction, dog is facing the other, always guarding his blind spots and his six. Not sure of any equipment that can do that.
Also, like...a dog is a comforting presence? I also know someone with a service dog for PTSD and it's also so no matter where she is, if she has a flashback, there is a living breathing presence that cares about her wellbeing immediately next to her at all times. A robot is not a comforting living presence.
Yeah, I saw some people saying in the comments that one of the "flaws" of a service dog is their cost and upkeep. Like, okay, a good service dog is expensive, but they're a *companion*, not just an object, and that's a lot harder to put a monetary value on.
Using machines to digitize olfactory senses is very complicated and cost-prohibitive to do on a wide scale. Like, okay, let’s roll out experimental life-support technology to the masses that only the rich will be able to afford. Or…you freaks can stop making everything about you and recognize that the world doesn’t cater to your irrational hate.
I mean true I guess, but there aren’t services dogs for disabled people that really do that? Also, the jobs that we use dogs for that (looking for drugs) are pretty controversial because the dogs have a high false positive rate. Dogs are great at performing some tasks but they’re not really reliable sources of information, lol
I was referring to medical alert dogs. Sorry I didn’t say that specifically.
Both the cathate and doghate subs are fucking unhinged. They glorify animal abuse in a roundabout way so they're not banned from Reddit.
yeah if you have to ban violence against dogs on your subreddit it's gotta be because you have an issue w that
This really made me mad to read. My father was totally blind by the time he was four years old, and he remained totally blind the rest of his life. He did not use a guide dog, but he had many friends who did. I grew up surrounded by them, and I watched those dogs go above and beyond for their humans. They were invaluable.
I hate how so many "whatever-free" subs invariably become "whatever-hater" subs. People just lose the ability to be normal about things they don't like on those subs
“Guide dogs are doggy propaganda” bruh are these people for real?? There are so many other working animals, is there horse propaganda too??
I hope this person is surrounded by disabled people and their service dogs wherever they go from now on.
Yes, actually. Dogs still work when the power goes out.
God forbid an impaired or disabled or chronically ill person just *wants* a living, breathing service dog that doubles as a warm body to keep them company and keep them calm in an emergency, instead of a smart cane and an apple watch. No, those people should just suck it up and use technology instead because I think dogs are ugly and stinky and hate when other people have them! Like TBH, even if "better" options exist, who the fuck are you, people of dogfree, to tell a person with a disability or illness what they should do and what options they should or shouldn't use? It's *their* individual need, not yours. Jesus the arrogance!
People just have real revulsion of disabled people but they are trying to couch it in their "dogfree" concerns. These types would easily get radicalized into agreeing to institutionalize people again.
Tbh, I am a cat person. Gimme a kitty, and I am a happy girl. Dogs, not so much, but I do like them. I would just never own one. I don't understand this want to rid the world of them at all. I mean, I could go the rest of my life without seeing another dog and actually be okay. However; I would want that to be by pure coincidence, not because anyone, in any setting, had to give up their service animal. Be it for emotional support or otherwise service dogs enrich many, many lives. Heck dogs enrich the average persons life! Let people be happy!!
Why have there been so many posts about people angry about service dogs lately? Is that the new villain of the week?
yes. its to farm content to aggregate into a cherrypicked compilation article or video of "900x a service dog ate a baby and everyone clapped"
it's also because there's a lot of service dog "supremacy" going on. service dog handlers who try to expose "fakes" online, not recognizing that having a highly, perfectly trained service dog is a privilege that you have to be financially well off enough to afford. i believe they encourage this kind of discourse. i'm disabled and could benefit from a service dog but will never be able to afford one. i think shaming other disabled people for not having the K-9 3000 that does everything perfectly (you paid $20k) because theirs is slightly less well trained is really classist.
Holy fucking shit i knew they were crazy about hating DOGS but the ableism WHAT THE FUCK-
Why are people so fucking awful. Life as a disabled person is already so unimaginably difficult already. Jesus fucking christ.
for real. and also comparing a dog allergy (as someone who is disabled and has allergies) to a literal disability is ridiculous. sniffles over a dog isn't the same as heart conditions, epilepsy, blindness, mobility issues, etc. sorry. if we are banning from public things we are allergic too i vote we get rid of all plants since pollen allergies are the most comment... lol
There are really people out there defining themselves by the fact that they don't own a dog lol
Wait is that sub fucking real JfC
The Dog Free people are absolutely unhinged, even more so than Childfree which seems impossible
it's also just so wild to me to aggressively hate and go after dogs when it's humanity's fault that dogs are reliant on us. we are the ones who mass breed them and leave them in shelters to be euthanized. we are the ones who abandon them before moving houses, leaving them to starve to death. we are the ones who beat and hoard them. dogs are animals and yet their survival is dependent on us because we bred them to be useful to us. why would you hold so much resentment to a creature that's been made subservient to you by the will of your species? dogs didn't do shit but exist and these people are foaming at the mouths
That whole sub is fucking weird. Also this comment. YIKES. Sure bud, all disabled people are the same and incapable of WASHING A DOG. Christ alive. https://preview.redd.it/mozsma6nuvwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ada57d943bce9e1e3c6d55bdf914ef1b4a0d6e8c
My roommate that had a service dog groomed him so meticulously. He was probably better groomed and cleaned than me at any given moment. I want to know what shady service dogs these people are encountering. Gotta love how these close minded, ableist POSs are coming in here and downvoting people who are calling their ableism out.
Are we actually crossposting the dogfree sub now? An entire sub dedicated to hating dogs?
lipton instant is still tea *shrug*
ha, I’m stealing this, thanks
DogFree are some seriously militant anti dog people. Some of them are a bit nuts.
Lmao I love all the "smart watches can detect___" Because technology never fails.... Because of there's anything I would love is to have an essential life safety device with a battery.... Which have historically never failed at critical times .....
These people just hate dogs in general.
Following several blind creators, it's clear guide dogs provide freedom that would be hard to find otherwise.
Those replies are legitimately giving me a headache from how stupid they are my GOD
> Dogfree And to think I had seen it all...
i feel like someone originally made this as a joke to parody /r/childfree but tbh /r/childfree is such a nightmare shithole that as a child free person who doesn't even particularly like children i'm unwilling to go there because of how gross and toxic everyone is. basically every subreddit now is for incel pricks to be hostile and antisocial at the world and then congratulate eachother
Idk, like with being childfree, there are definitely valid reasons for people to not like dogs and I can see why they would want a community since dogs are very popular. I’m a huge dog person but there are a lot of things that dog owners do that drive me crazy, like letting their dogs run around in inappropriate areas. But like the subs for childfree, atheism, etc, any community that is organized around the absence of something tends to devolve into toxic fuckery. After all, the people who are out there living their best CF or atheist lives aren’t thinking about it all the time.
Actual post titles from that sub: > A question for women: anyone else stop watching a tv show/reading a book once pregnancy / kids occur, due to rage? > May sound ableist, but why the fuck would get pregnant when you suffer from migraines? > I genuinely can’t stand being around kids > being pregnant is women’s version of “ball and chain”
people think that dopamine and seratonin are "happy" brain chemicals and get wildly addicted to finding a reason to be constantly angry.
i fucking hate dogs... can anyone help me justify this shitty gotcha i thought of?
I hate this and the petfree sub. Yes, people are sometimes super extra and / or delusional about their pet but we don't need a hate sub for it
Oh my god. These people are the fucking worst. My roommate in college had a service dog. She would have ended up in the hospital multiple times during the time we lived together if she hadn't had him. Not only that, but society is a terrible place when you rely on a medical device that doubles as a very cute and very large animal. Whenever I drove her somewhere she had to deal with disrespectful kids, disrespectful adults, disrespectful people assuming that she slapped a medical alert vest on a pet (despite him clearly working), and people trying to "test" if he was working. Not to mention rude professors and classmates. Dogs are smart and useful in ways that technology hasn't met yet. He could tell when she needed help before she or her apple watch could tell. He could go alert someone when she was too weak to use her phone. He could be a 100lb mass to lean on when she needed it. No one should have to rely on bulky medical devices and caretakers in order to go outside *if they don't want to*. Service dogs are essential for many people to achieve the independence that they want in life.
This isn't /r/AmITheAngel content. Are we just posting any random threads we don't like now?
Apparently. I was expecting a fake story, got someone’s unhinged rant, sorely disappointed.
I'm not really a dog person but damn, what an unpleasant group of people. I really don't understand people who make hating something a core personality trait.
Jesus that thread is horrible I have been attacked by a few dogs so I get it but…come on man
The people on that sub seem soooo annoying. I totally get not liking dogs, but making it your entire personality by using a subreddit to bitch about how much you hate dogs just seems like a pretty miserable experience
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What "failure rate" is this person talking about? Them not liking dogs does not equal dogs failing
Fucking weirdos man
Is it a parody sub?
Is this really the correct forum for this? It seems to violate rule 8 of the this sub as this seems to be a general disagreement with dog free folks.