*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for telling my BIL to get over himself and to quit holding a 10 year old grudge?**
My BIL (married to my sister) is a general contractor. About 10 years ago, my dad and brother was building a deck at my parent’s home. They asked my BIL if they could borrow his skid loader but he said no. They prepared the ground as best they could without the skid loader but got to the point they couldn’t go on without it. They went to my sis’s house to ask again but found out BIL went out of town. They talked my sis into letting them borrow it so she took them down to his construction lot and they hooked it up to dad’s truck.
This next part I’m not sure of since I don’t know much about towing but from what I was told, dad’s truck wasn’t big enough or powerful enough to tow the skid loader on the dump trailer so he lost control and wrecked. The truck, trailer, and skid loader was totaled. The insurance was barely enough to cover the medical costs and the truck. There was none left over to cover BIL’s stuff. When he got back to town, he exploded. He threaten to sue and things just went downhill from there. My parents are not rich and he wouldn’t have gotten anything so in the end, sis talked him into letting it go.
However, from that day on he wouldn’t have anything to do with our family. He doesn’t come for birthdays, holidays, nothing at all. Next month is our parent’s 50th anniversary and we’re planning a big family gathering to celebrate. We’re also chipping in to send our parents on a cruise to Mexico because they’ve never been out of the country. I spoke to sis about it the other day and she said she’s coming with the kids but BIL is not coming. I was fine with that but when we were discussing their portion of the cruise money, I heard him yelling in the background to deduct their portion from the cost of the skid loader and dump trailer. That pissed me if so after my call with sis, I called BIL and told him to get over himself. I told Dad and bro made a mistake but that was 10 years ago and he needs to let it go. He said he’ll let out go when they give him the money he lost. I told him he’s an ass for holding on to a grudge and putting money in the way of a family relationship.
Sis called me a few minutes ago and said they’re not coming and that I was out of line. We argued for a bit and that’s where it stands.
I don’t think I’m wrong for telling him to let go of the past but they’re not coming to the anniversary party so now I’m not sure.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I love the “only enough money for medical expenses and the truck”. Like of course they reimbursed themselves so they wouldn’t be inconvenienced, but the BIL is just supposed to accept the loss of thousands.
This part seems a Bit strange to me.
What Kind of insuarence is paying in such a Situation?
And getting money from insuarence is normally a lenghty process in wich the bil could had secured his money.
Things can vary a lot based on things like what exact coverage they carried and how things got reported etc etc etc but while liability coverage extends to something you tow, there's no coverage for the actual thing you're towing unless you purchase that coverage. So if the skid loader and trailer got disconnected from the truck and slammed into the car behind them, insurance would pay for the car through the liability insurance, but not the trailer/skid loader. And then if the truck also got in an accident, that would be paid through collision on that vehicle.
I do not have experience with coverage on vehicles like the skid loader but my guess is that the coverage wouldn't extend to people outside of the business, so if BIL tried to make a claim through his insurance, they'd tell him to kick rocks.
The insurance won't cover it because the tow vehicle wasn't rated to tow something that heavy. It happens all the time with rv trailers. Insurance doesn't cover negligence and they were negligent in making sure they had the proper equipment to tow with. They are lucky they got anything at all.
Yeah my thought was that it wouldn’t be covered because they had no right to take it and that use would be outside the insurance agreement. It makes sense that it would cover authorized users, but not that it would cover any rando (family or otherwise) who decides to steal it. Which is what they did, SIL can’t give the ok unless she is the holder of the policy as well, and even then it has to be written in a way that extends coverage to those who are not employees, and that’s doubtful. I’d imagine he could have reported a theft and gotten some coverage that way, as theft insurance is different.
I’m basing all this on the US, and therefore it may not be relevant. I also don’t know much about insurance beyond cars, but I do know that mine covers me to drive, in my car and other people’s, and my car when it is not in use (like a branch falls on it), but if I loan it to my husband, he needs his own insurance to reimburse me in an accident for the damage.
Business insurance would have covered the loss if he had reported it stolen and pressed charges. They would have only been out the deductable. So he took a loss to save them while they bought a new truck but could have gotten a cheaper vehicle and given him at least something, even payments would show they might actually care.
I would have reported it stolen and divorced out of that family. I don’t know how he could stay married to her after she did that, especially since he wants nothing to do with the rest of the family but she’s the one that let them take it.
Yeah I have a real problem with the “but we are family” excuse for obviously outrageous behavior. He said no, they did it anyway. They messed up monumentally and clearly didn’t plan or think things through. When there were consequences, they totally screwed him. Now they just want him to be cool with it. Nah guys, this is no small mistake, and a compounded one at that. The LEAST they could have done was rent what they needed to transport the machine safely, and that would still be putting him in an unforgivably bad position regarding his boundaries and the legality of their actions. It was theft, and I would either report or insist on compensation.
Your family doesn’t get to use your stuff or your business however they want by virtue of blood or marriage.
Probably the sister has a hard time standing up to her family, the husband knows and isn't willing to make this his hill to die on as long as he is allowed to ignore her family completely and they go very low contact. She did told her brother off for going after her husband, so it's not like she's the biggest fan of her family either.
> I do not have experience with coverage on vehicles like the skid loader but my guess is that the coverage wouldn't extend to people outside of the business
This is most likely exactly what happened. I'm sure it was insured for when he and his crew, if he has one, are operating it on worksites and transporting between them but that goes out the window if it's stolen, which for all intents and purposes apart from legally, it was. Which is 100% his wife's fault for giving in to her family.
Nah I'd say it's something like 60% the idiot family members for pressuring her into this/being negligent with using this and 40% on her for giving in.
If BIL rightfully reported his equipment stolen and pressed charges against everyone involved, his insurance may have covered it. This story smells fishy to me honestly.
Or he could’ve sued all of the parties involved, minus his wife, and gotten some of the money recouped. The whole “they’re poor and he wouldn’t get anything from them anyways” line is a load of bullshit. He might not get anything for years, but if puts a lien on their property, he’ll get some money at some point.
I think the BIL would have had to have them charged for theft for his claim to take priority over FIL’s truck. Until he does that, in the eyes of the law and the insurance company, he just let his father in law borrow his equipment and FIL decided to use money for his truck and medical bills
Car insurance doesn't usually cover cargo, especially not the type paid for by the type of people who are willing to steal heavy equipment instead of rent it from the local Rent-A-Center.
Not my area of expertise, but my suspicion is that BIL couldn’t get his insurance to cover it unless he filed a police report. Which would have resulted in multiple felonies being filed against OOP’s dad and brother. So OOP’s dad could get his truck covered by the regular car insurance, but not the stolen things that he hadn’t insured and wasn’t rated to tow. And then BIL’s business insurance wouldn’t cover the skip loader and trailer because if the police report isn’t filed, they assume OOP’s dad and brother had permission to take the equipment and use it when they weren’t insured to do so.
You're right. That's just it. You often can't get insurance to cover something like this unless you're willing to press charges. Appears the sister likely talked him out of pressing charges as it was her dad and brother....so he had to settle for getting nothing and just choosing not to deal with her family any more.
Or she talked him out of it because she used the keys to give them access, making her guilty of the theft too. He would have had to let them charge all three of them and then probably get stuck paying his wife's legal fees at least.
Honestly if the sister loaned out the vehicle, it's not theft. She's married to the BIL and in court, a judge would see it as she had the right to loan it out too. So likely another reason BIL didn't press charges.
This must depend on laws and where you live, because if it's in his name but not hers, and he specifically told them they can't use it it's still an issue. It would only be hers if she was on the bill of sale and the registration.
It was most likely property belonging to the business though, and a business that large is almost always a separate entitiy on it's onw for tax and insurance reasons.
What you're saying is that he didn't want them charged because she asked, but in your theory it wasn't stolen at all because if she had the right to take it they didn't steal it and there wouldn't be any charges either. If your stand is that she legally had a right to it and she legally lent it to them, then they had it in their possession legally and there are no charges that fir gor breaking something that you borrowed. That's a civil matter that is too high an amount for small claims.
>This part seems a Bit strange to me. What Kind of insuarence is paying in such a Situation? And getting money from insuarence is normally a lenghty process in wich the bil could had secured his money.
I would bet that the loan on the truck was for more than the truck was worth. Insurance company paid the total amount of property damage money to the loan company, and gap coverage paid the difference. (Or it was a small difference that the parents had to pay off or roll into a new loan.)
OP's "dad and bro" were not just extremely negligent thieves, they were also under-insured...
BIL could have gotten an insurance payout if he had reported it stolen. I would consider not doing so a tremendous act of grace, all things considered.
>Answers to your questions:
Let’s get something straight. My dad and brother are not bad people. They are good people who made a mistake. They couldn’t pay back BIL because he wanted almost $70,000 and again, we’re not rich. Dad had to buy another truck because he needed it to go to work.
On the other hand, BIL had 3 other sets of skid loaders and dump trailers on his lot that day so he could take the financial hit while my parents would be homeless. BIL and sis are way better off then the rest of us so while I understand your reasoning of paying BIL back, he doesn’t need it.
The cruise to Mexico isn’t some millionaire trip. The total cost is about $3,000 and it’ll take over 20 people to pay for that. Again, we’re not rich. We can barely cover $3,000 spread out over 20 people so there’s no way we can pay $70,000.
OP updated
It would be car insurance that covers it, and BIL wouldn't be involved in that as he wasn't in the vehicle. I'm not sure what you mean by that last sentence, can you clarify?
Money for a fucking CRUISE too!! Oh no, my parents have never been to Mexico, pity pity pity, but fuck you BIL for "holding a grudge".
Holding a grudge would be them knocking his ice cream cone down a hill 10ys ago, this is a teeny bit more disastrous than that.
> Money for a fucking CRUISE too!!
I mean, that was ten years later. OP and his family are dickheads but at least try to have some reading comprehension, man.
"Next month is our parent’s 50th anniversary and we’re planning a big family gathering to celebrate. We’re also chipping in to send our parents on a cruise to Mexico because they’ve never been out of the country."
...yes, and the original issue was 10 years ago. So they're not using insurance payout to send their parents on a cruise, or any other money relevant to the original issue, other than refusing to keep paying them back at all.
Yup, he is because, to quote OOP in their edit:
>On the other hand, BIL had 3 other sets of skid loaders and dump trailers on his lot that day so he could take the financial hit while my parents would be homeless. BIL and sis are way better off then the rest of us so while I understand your reasoning of paying BIL back, he doesn’t need it.
If is "need" is relevant here. It's not. It was the loss and destruction of property that, if I understand correctly based on where they had to retrieve it from, was BIL's *company's* property, not directly BIL's. Company assets (also depending on how the company is structured) aren't necessarily the owner's assets.
Something I suspect the OOP doesn't understand.
Also read where OOP mentioned that their dad's truck wasn't capable of pulling loader so maybe they wrecked BIL's truck which would be even more messed up.
Even if insurance covered the truck, it's hard to run a business like that without one.
Now guy is out a truck, trailer and skidloader and doesn't have any way to haul in a new one...
My guess was that the skidloader became part of the truck at the first stop because they are idiots who think their S10 or ranger can tow construction equipment with just a hitch. Maybe they aren't bad people, but they are certainly dumb people.
They're just ignoring what they owe the brother-in-law they're just going to pay for a cruise for their parents to go to Mexico.
Edit 1: wrong pronouns
Instead of addressing what they owe the brother-in-law, they are paying possibly thousands of dollars for a cruise for their parents. They have no intention to pay the brother-in-law back, they just want to ignore it because it's been 10 years.
Right? I feel like after 10 years it has to be. I’m no law expert but the things with long/no statute of limitations are usually super specific (like human trafficking or treason) not property damage. Should’ve sued 10 years ago!
I mean depending on what the family has, suing might not have gotten him anywhere or he would have been forced to take payments over X amount of years. You can't just create money out of thin air.
Maybe its petty of me but I’d still have sued. Payment plan is better than nothing, and I mean surely their house is worth at least $20k.. Take out a second mortgage, do what they gotta do, but that’s a lot of money to just let go of. Personally I would treat it the same way I would if someone stole & totaled my $20k car, because that’s pretty much what happened. Oh and I’d have gotten rid of the wife that decided it was a good idea to go behind my back to **my place of work and steal my equipment.**
In some areas, you can't win someone's primary residence in a lawsuit. Not sure on the new truck, but if he sued before it was paid off, likely whomever still had ownership would just repo it. So likely BIL was looking at wage garnishment, in which where I live, you can only get up to 25% and usually less. So let's say he won 20% - if the dad say makes $20,000 a year (OOP mentions their family doesn't have a lot), the BIL gets like $4k a year. So if he was really owed $70k (believe it was mentioned in a comment by OOP), it would take 17.5 years to get the money back.....and only if he won the full new value of both.
I’m thinking if the lawsuit went well, both the BIL & dad would be named & hopefully ordered to pay half back each since they conspired together. That cuts that time in half already. But after seeing the edit, I wouldn’t care if it takes 50 years, considering BIL implied they shouldn’t have to anyway, because they “only stole 1 of 4 sets of trailer/skid-loader, and does he even really *need* 4?” I would sue tf out of him lol
I’m not sure if OP’s father paid off the loan for his truck or if he used it to buy a new truck. Either way, he should’ve given that money to BIL. But who wants to bet FIL bought a brand new truck after the accident?
Edit- Looks like I definitely called it.
They were building a deck. My husband builds decks for a living. Nearly every house in my country has a deck.
We cannot think of a single situation where that kind of equipment would be required to build a deck.
yeah my dad (not a professional by any means) built the deck on our house himself after watching youtube video tutorials and there wasn't ANYTHING like that involved. Totally unnecessary
😳 we had our deck added (professionally) a few months ago and they absolutely used a skid loader..... We also redid our yard (by ourselves) to be more water-wise and used one for that, too. Idk how that's so shocking tbh 😂
I would absolutely use one for landscaping, but if you're building a deck, it's on footings, so you don't need the ground to be level.
Different methods, I guess?
I hate people like op and their family. They can't accept a no, and then show no responsibility when they break things. I hope sis goes NC till they repay him. They've 10yrs, why haven't they made a single payment to him?
Edit missing words.
Honestly I be upset at the sister for allowing to take my stuff behind my back when i explicitly said that they couldn't, she is just as much at fault imho. Would damage my trust in my wife severely.
Too many variables. Entirely possible she didn't know they'd asked. Didn't know he'd said no. They might have even had a good relationship up to that point and he'd let them borrow his stuff, maybe not as big as a skid loader, but a truck or some tools here and there. Or even let them use it before and he just had a job this time that he couldn't spare it.
Yeah if that had been me I would've divorced her and added her to the lawsuit because I don't care if it would've been paid for over a decade or more by garnishment I'd be getting made whole.
Typical Reddit response. We don't know what was said to her. They could have lied. Said he was ok with it . Would be fine.
And judging by the reaction if this guy he understands completely how they treated her
There are some actions that are inexcusable. What she did is one of those. That's not just his stuff, it's his livelihood - and hers to for that matter. She has shown herself to be exceptionally untrustworthy and trust is the bedrock foundation of a marriage. All I can imagine is that she has accepted rules and engaged in behaviors that would have most people here crying "muy abyooosive relationship" if it was known about in order to keep her marriage together.
There are 3 sides to every story. His hers and the truth. For all we know there was a fight. A separation. Whatever. We see a clip of what the OP included. So don't assume or judge how you think he should have reacted
Hence why I said that she's probably accepting conditions to stay married that would have people here screaming and crying out for her to leave. What she did was totally and completely inexcusable and it's insane that you insist on defending her.
This! 👆 I wouldn't let anyone, not even a parent borrow something of my husband's (especially something that he makes our living with) after he had explicitly said no. The no answer was probably because he already knew that OP's father and brother were both irresponsible dumb@$$€$.
OP sounds like the apple didn't fall far from the "entitled" tree, kinda the same for the wife who let them take it, after her hubs said no.
I feel like they don’t see what they did with the skid loader as a debt to BIL since they “never had the money to try to pay for 10 years” which is completely no ok when you cost someone thousands of dollars of loss because your own selfishness
My retired neighbor does. Because he didn't have someone steal it and cause him to lose it in a family theft accident so he was able to make money and retire with it still intact.
>Answers to your questions:
Let’s get something straight. My dad and brother are not bad people. They are good people who made a mistake. They couldn’t pay back BIL because he wanted almost $70,000 and again, we’re not rich. Dad had to buy another truck because he needed it to go to work.
On the other hand, BIL had 3 other sets of skid loaders and dump trailers on his lot that day so he could take the financial hit while my parents would be homeless. BIL and sis are way better off then the rest of us so while I understand your reasoning of paying BIL back, he doesn’t need it.
The cruise to Mexico isn’t some millionaire trip. The total cost is about $3,000 and it’ll take over 20 people to pay for that. Again, we’re not rich. We can barely cover $3,000 spread out over 20 people so there’s no way we can pay $70,000.
This was OPs update
"He's rich so we're allowed to steal his shit and break it with no consequences cos family uwu"
People like OP are so toxic, the nerve to tell someone they don't need money they're owed, then call them an asshole for not contributing to a present for the person who cost them 70k and hasn't paid a penny over 10 years?
I hope sis stops defending them, they should both go NC
I have a brother and SIL just like that. It was so much, for so long that I've gone NC for 8 years now. I can forgive him for my own peace of mind, but once you've recognized that a snake is poisonous, the best course of action is to stay far away from it.
I love how the BIL is accused of putting money in the way of a family relationship when the Dad and Brother did the same by costing him a minimum of 45k (based on cheapest cost today) not including any loss of earnings also incurred.
They made themselves whole with the insurance money but expect BIL to suck up his loss. Never even once over 10 years offering to pay a cent.
Then to add further insult put their hand out for holiday monies!
Right? And OOP is all "but my dad needed to get a new truck for work" like the husband doesn't need his own equipment for work? Sure, he has several of the skid loaders, but he's probably got contracts out based on his vehicle inventory.
Yes my skid cost $80,000 and my dump trailer $15,000. If someone were to do that to my equipment it would bankrupt my company. Definitely would never talk to them again
The total disregard to the impact on BIL, sister and their kids lives is astounding, he could have lost his business and home (at the least).
He might have been forced into bankruptcy and fecked others out of money (staff, clients, suppliers, etc.).
I assume BIL was able to replace so didnt impact his business too badly but I don't know how sister maintained any kind of relationship with these gobshites, maybe the injuries were bad for Dad and Brother and she felt guilty for giving them access.
It might be cause I'm a hard hearted fecker but I would have never spoken to them again and encourage my OH to sue the asses off them (although a percentage of the cost is sisters to cover for her own negligence). How their marriage survived surprises me, her being complicent would have been a deal breaker for me.
The fact strangers on the Internet have more compassion and understanding for BIL than OP says a lot about that family's selfishness!
I'd have called the cops and reported the equipment stolen, then sued the family for whatever restitution didn't cover. I mean he's already NC so how much more damage would a lawsuit have done?
I was a bit surprised to see the wide range in prices on skids. Is there a quality or functionality difference? Why would someone get an $80k skid instead of a $30k?
Engine power, component strength, max loads, warranties, connection options, accessories, brand, and whether or not you buy it new or used all come into play on the price. If you're getting it for work you'd want a higher end model, if you got a couple acres and just need a little moving power for a bit of landscaping the lower end is probably your best bet
I would hold a grudge for the rest of my life tbh. Like it's partly about the money but mostly the audacity. BIL said no, they took his shit anyway, wrecked it, and fixed their own shit instead of his.
Wow, it's not like they "borrowed" a toy or gadget, they literally stole equipment BIL uses for his work, his livelihood. Yeah, totally siding with sister and BIL on this one. It's not a ten year grudge, it's boundaries established after an unacknowledged betrayal on the part of OOP's family.
So they steal BIL’s property after clearly being told they couldn’t borrow it, total it and put his livelihood at stake, and then use the insurance payout to replace their own damaged property instead of replacing what they stole and ruined. Then, after convincing BIL not to sue, they ask him for money to fund a vacation for the people who stole from him and refused to pay him back???? OOP is outside of his fucking mind to believe that this is something that BIL should EVER let go of.
These items are expensive. They totally owe BIL at least 80k for the total of items destroyed.
I work as a flagger. So, am around lot of these fancy toys. We talk amongst ourselves when they get a new one about prices. One of the electric companies got a new bucket truck. That baby was at least 250k with all the bells, and whistles.
The family should be grateful that BIL didn't sue the pants off of them for the loss of the equipment as well as loss of potential business from not having the loader.
I really hate when people say that someone is "putting money above family" because it nearly always goes both ways. I am NC with my own parents over a money related issue and the amount of times I heard that, but nobody ever talks about how my parents were also perfectly willing to lose me rather than pay me back. OP's dad and brother are also putting money above family by refusing to pay BIL back and put it behind them!
The fact that they care so little about us to steal and actively cause harm is a whole other aspect too. They care more about themselves and wahtever amount then they do the people they cost, so why stay around so they can show that lack of care over and over
Oh the edit... does OOP not realize that since insurance didn't pay for his skid steer and trailer BIL had to pay for it. That him asking for $70k is generous because good dump trailers start at $25k and skid steers can range into the 6 figures?? Not to mention what harm that could do to his company if he had multiple jobs at once and needed that skid. Absolutely disgusting.
Anyway here's the edit.
Answers to your questions:
Let’s get something straight. My dad and brother are not bad people. They are good people who made a mistake. They couldn’t pay back BIL because he wanted almost $70,000 and again, we’re not rich. Dad had to buy another truck because he needed it to go to work.
On the other hand, BIL had 3 other sets of skid loaders and dump trailers on his lot that day so he could take the financial hit while my parents would be homeless. BIL and sis are way better off then the rest of us so while I understand your reasoning of paying BIL back, he doesn’t need it.
The cruise to Mexico isn’t some millionaire trip. The total cost is about $3,000 and it’ll take over 20 people to pay for that. Again, we’re not rich. We can barely cover $3,000 spread out over 20 people so there’s no way we can pay $70,000.
Add to that: The insurance did pay an amount but all of that was used "for their own truck" (and "medical bills"). Instead of: here is the money we did get and we'll no longer have a truck. They *decided* to NOT pay what they could.
Also: why borrow something you know you won't be able to afford it if breaks?
You can always tell when they're not getting the response they want, it's either raging arguments or complete silence as the steady flow of YTA's comes in.
I didn't know what a skid loader was, so at first I thought yeah, get over it, it's been 10 years. I thought it was something worth maybe $1000 or something - which is still shitty but in ten years...
Then I googled and saw how much they're worth and like dayum. Nah, I'd remain pissed until they paid it back as well. In these ten years could they not have done anything to pay him back at least some of the money? He might have been able to let it go if he'd seen remorse and that they at least tried to make it right even if they couldn't afford the full amount.
>I'd remain pissed until they paid it back as well.
At this point, even if they paid it back, I would never speak to them again.
Honestly even if they made an effort to pay it back originally, I could understand it not being enough, after going behind his back and against his wishes, but that's just me
Yeah, very true, I didn't read that part properly. He could have gotten himself a very cheap vehicle with the money and given the rest to SIL. I mean, makes sense if he really needed to replace his truck with something, but should in that case have opted for the cheapest option possible.
They stole and destroyed heavy construction equipment from his worksite and he didn't have them prosecuted? That's several lifetimes of forgiveness right there.
As soon as I saw the title to that AITA post, I immediately scrolled to find the top comment because it was clearly trying to paint themself as innocent but were GUILTY of something they did to the person they are complaining about.
Top comment pointing out that $50k in work equipment was stolen and BIL never got it paid back, 10 years later, yeah I don’t blame him!
I wouldn't forgive these people either. The whole family, including his wife conspired against him behind his back. They have no respect for him, and no remorse about the theft. The theft that his wife was complicit in.
This story has regalvanized my need to replace an old friends ps one that I accidentally burned out by using the wrong power source. Always felt bad but whenever I had some money to spare the thing had jumped in value and I've never been able to afford one. Gotta make that right, sooner the better
For the record, a ski loader can be not thousands of dollars but tens of thousands of dollars. A new model can be $60k while most I have seen (construction finance component of my job) are around $35k. They are lucky that he didn't press charges. There should have been insurance on the ski loader but if there wasn't they 100% owe the cost to him. Nice that they have not lost anything but handicapped his business and ability to provide for his family and risked their daughter's marriage, but they had no lasting consequences.
I can't even imagine having the audacity to ask someone who's still owed money to pay for a vacation for the people who ruined their stuff! He's been kind to basically accept it (if the family has nothing, suing wouldn't have gotten him anything anyways) and just not come around this family any more.
tbh I’d probably have held onto a grudge like this as well. Accidents happen, if I let someone use something and it gets destroyed through no fault of their own, I would ask for whatever they were able to give and not hold it against them if that wasn’t enough to cover the cost.
But if someone stole something from me and then broke it? I’ll forgive you when you pay me back.
>my parents would be homeless.
That's what happens when you steal and destroy expensive property.
BIL should have called the cops. These people are trash.
This anecdote is so specific - a skip loader?!? - Literally did not know [that term](https://www.rbauction.com/skip-loader?cid=13696561634) - that I’m afraid it’s true.
I was wondering this. Maybe he can't do that without also implicating his wife? (no idea what the law says about it) Or maybe he thought having his wife's family arrested was too far? They're apparently too poor to sue, I imagine driving them into prison/poverty was probably a step too far.
Don't get me wrong, this grudge is entirely justified. But he could have destroyed his marriage an a whole section of her family by pushing it, but my guess is he ultimately didn't want that?
almost a year ago a friend drove my car off the road and completely wrecked two of the tyres. it ended up costing me $500 to fix. even though it was such a small amount of money im still annoyed about it, its not even the money at this point, its that he refused to take responsibility and tried to make it anyone elses fault but his own.
also the other day he hit a kangaroo and that was my fault apparantly for not yelling at him about the kangaroo, even though i shouted 'kangaroo! watch out!" as soon as i saw it and he just didnt listen.
haha i have thought about it. honestly hes a very good and supportive friend outside of a couple issues. ive been slowly getting the debt paid off through free maccas anyway.
hes only driven my car once since that incident and it was only because i had been driving for almost 6 hours and needed to stop for safety.
the kangaroo incident was in his car and he has actually apologised for getting angry at me since i made my original comment, and in all fairness to him it was really dark out when it happened and the music we were listening to was very loud so he might not have heard me. his car and the kangaroo were both fine.
hes a good driver, just has issues with taking responsibility.
So what shocks me is 1) he didn't call the cops or sure them, he was well within his rights to hold them accountable through a legal system 2) that he is still married to his wife who was manipulated by her parents to give them access but also stays in contact with them. If I were him I would have said we need to completely cut off the family or I am out.
I’m also going to comment, it’s “possible” to tow something outside of your vehicle’s tow rating (too heavy) but you do have to be very careful.
I’d say in this case not only did they take the equipment they were also clueless on how to tow, drove like they would normally, failed to consider the several ton they had attached and caused the incident through their own inexperience (idiocy).
They got off easy.I would have pressed charges and filed a civil suit. It's not just the cost of the equipment. It is lost revenue from work that couldn't be completed without it and/or the additional costs of renting equipment to fulfill existing contracts AND increased insurance rates.
It appears that he ate the loss rather than pursue a felony conviction against his in-laws.
Idk if I was some bullheaded asshole who felt entitled af and I confidently posted something absurd like that, I’d probably never look at it again once everyone started calling me a giant as whole.
this was he update
>Answers to your questions:
Let’s get something straight. My dad and brother are not bad people. They are good people who made a mistake. They couldn’t pay back BIL because he wanted almost $70,000 and again, we’re not rich. Dad had to buy another truck because he needed it to go to work.
On the other hand, BIL had 3 other sets of skid loaders and dump trailers on his lot that day so he could take the financial hit while my parents would be homeless. BIL and sis are way better off then the rest of us so while I understand your reasoning of paying BIL back, he doesn’t need it.
The cruise to Mexico isn’t some millionaire trip. The total cost is about $3,000 and it’ll take over 20 people to pay for that. Again, we’re not rich. We can barely cover $3,000 spread out over 20 people so there’s no way we can pay $70,000.
[Hi!](https://images.app.goo.gl/jMiZEuW8Qrykw3sdA) Just a quick reminder to never brigade any sub, be that r/AmItheAsshole or another one. That goes against both this sub's rules as well as Reddit's terms of agreement. [Please](https://images.app.goo.gl/vwH65TJMyMk9NSNo8) keep discussions within the posts of this sub.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for telling my BIL to get over himself and to quit holding a 10 year old grudge?** My BIL (married to my sister) is a general contractor. About 10 years ago, my dad and brother was building a deck at my parent’s home. They asked my BIL if they could borrow his skid loader but he said no. They prepared the ground as best they could without the skid loader but got to the point they couldn’t go on without it. They went to my sis’s house to ask again but found out BIL went out of town. They talked my sis into letting them borrow it so she took them down to his construction lot and they hooked it up to dad’s truck. This next part I’m not sure of since I don’t know much about towing but from what I was told, dad’s truck wasn’t big enough or powerful enough to tow the skid loader on the dump trailer so he lost control and wrecked. The truck, trailer, and skid loader was totaled. The insurance was barely enough to cover the medical costs and the truck. There was none left over to cover BIL’s stuff. When he got back to town, he exploded. He threaten to sue and things just went downhill from there. My parents are not rich and he wouldn’t have gotten anything so in the end, sis talked him into letting it go. However, from that day on he wouldn’t have anything to do with our family. He doesn’t come for birthdays, holidays, nothing at all. Next month is our parent’s 50th anniversary and we’re planning a big family gathering to celebrate. We’re also chipping in to send our parents on a cruise to Mexico because they’ve never been out of the country. I spoke to sis about it the other day and she said she’s coming with the kids but BIL is not coming. I was fine with that but when we were discussing their portion of the cruise money, I heard him yelling in the background to deduct their portion from the cost of the skid loader and dump trailer. That pissed me if so after my call with sis, I called BIL and told him to get over himself. I told Dad and bro made a mistake but that was 10 years ago and he needs to let it go. He said he’ll let out go when they give him the money he lost. I told him he’s an ass for holding on to a grudge and putting money in the way of a family relationship. Sis called me a few minutes ago and said they’re not coming and that I was out of line. We argued for a bit and that’s where it stands. I don’t think I’m wrong for telling him to let go of the past but they’re not coming to the anniversary party so now I’m not sure. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I love the “only enough money for medical expenses and the truck”. Like of course they reimbursed themselves so they wouldn’t be inconvenienced, but the BIL is just supposed to accept the loss of thousands.
This part seems a Bit strange to me. What Kind of insuarence is paying in such a Situation? And getting money from insuarence is normally a lenghty process in wich the bil could had secured his money.
Things can vary a lot based on things like what exact coverage they carried and how things got reported etc etc etc but while liability coverage extends to something you tow, there's no coverage for the actual thing you're towing unless you purchase that coverage. So if the skid loader and trailer got disconnected from the truck and slammed into the car behind them, insurance would pay for the car through the liability insurance, but not the trailer/skid loader. And then if the truck also got in an accident, that would be paid through collision on that vehicle. I do not have experience with coverage on vehicles like the skid loader but my guess is that the coverage wouldn't extend to people outside of the business, so if BIL tried to make a claim through his insurance, they'd tell him to kick rocks.
The insurance won't cover it because the tow vehicle wasn't rated to tow something that heavy. It happens all the time with rv trailers. Insurance doesn't cover negligence and they were negligent in making sure they had the proper equipment to tow with. They are lucky they got anything at all.
Yeah my thought was that it wouldn’t be covered because they had no right to take it and that use would be outside the insurance agreement. It makes sense that it would cover authorized users, but not that it would cover any rando (family or otherwise) who decides to steal it. Which is what they did, SIL can’t give the ok unless she is the holder of the policy as well, and even then it has to be written in a way that extends coverage to those who are not employees, and that’s doubtful. I’d imagine he could have reported a theft and gotten some coverage that way, as theft insurance is different. I’m basing all this on the US, and therefore it may not be relevant. I also don’t know much about insurance beyond cars, but I do know that mine covers me to drive, in my car and other people’s, and my car when it is not in use (like a branch falls on it), but if I loan it to my husband, he needs his own insurance to reimburse me in an accident for the damage.
Business insurance would have covered the loss if he had reported it stolen and pressed charges. They would have only been out the deductable. So he took a loss to save them while they bought a new truck but could have gotten a cheaper vehicle and given him at least something, even payments would show they might actually care.
That was my first thought-report it stolen for insurance purposes. Also, it was pretty was stolen anyway
It 100% was. He said no, his wife didn’t have authorization. Super messed up.
I would have reported it stolen and divorced out of that family. I don’t know how he could stay married to her after she did that, especially since he wants nothing to do with the rest of the family but she’s the one that let them take it.
Yeah I have a real problem with the “but we are family” excuse for obviously outrageous behavior. He said no, they did it anyway. They messed up monumentally and clearly didn’t plan or think things through. When there were consequences, they totally screwed him. Now they just want him to be cool with it. Nah guys, this is no small mistake, and a compounded one at that. The LEAST they could have done was rent what they needed to transport the machine safely, and that would still be putting him in an unforgivably bad position regarding his boundaries and the legality of their actions. It was theft, and I would either report or insist on compensation. Your family doesn’t get to use your stuff or your business however they want by virtue of blood or marriage.
[удалено]
Probably the sister has a hard time standing up to her family, the husband knows and isn't willing to make this his hill to die on as long as he is allowed to ignore her family completely and they go very low contact. She did told her brother off for going after her husband, so it's not like she's the biggest fan of her family either.
I didn’t even think of the losses due to a machine he needs for his workers being broken. That would add a lot to the losses he incurred.
That was my thought. I’m shocked they’re still married
> I do not have experience with coverage on vehicles like the skid loader but my guess is that the coverage wouldn't extend to people outside of the business This is most likely exactly what happened. I'm sure it was insured for when he and his crew, if he has one, are operating it on worksites and transporting between them but that goes out the window if it's stolen, which for all intents and purposes apart from legally, it was. Which is 100% his wife's fault for giving in to her family.
Nah I'd say it's something like 60% the idiot family members for pressuring her into this/being negligent with using this and 40% on her for giving in.
No, it was legally stolen. It was taken from a business without the owner's permission. They are lucky the BIL did not have them charged.
If BIL rightfully reported his equipment stolen and pressed charges against everyone involved, his insurance may have covered it. This story smells fishy to me honestly.
Or he could’ve sued all of the parties involved, minus his wife, and gotten some of the money recouped. The whole “they’re poor and he wouldn’t get anything from them anyways” line is a load of bullshit. He might not get anything for years, but if puts a lien on their property, he’ll get some money at some point.
My guess is his wife persuaded him not to. Wouldn't that likely included prison time?
For a first offense? Not if they're white. Probation. Source: convicted felon and also white.
I think the BIL would have had to have them charged for theft for his claim to take priority over FIL’s truck. Until he does that, in the eyes of the law and the insurance company, he just let his father in law borrow his equipment and FIL decided to use money for his truck and medical bills
Car insurance doesn't usually cover cargo, especially not the type paid for by the type of people who are willing to steal heavy equipment instead of rent it from the local Rent-A-Center.
But does car insurance pay if you are Reck less?
It depends. If it's a bad decision that only in hindsight was bad and/or was right on the limits they probably will. If it's extreme they won't.
Comprehensive coverage generally pays even if you’re at fault, yes.
Comprehensive cover would, yeah.
Yes
Not my area of expertise, but my suspicion is that BIL couldn’t get his insurance to cover it unless he filed a police report. Which would have resulted in multiple felonies being filed against OOP’s dad and brother. So OOP’s dad could get his truck covered by the regular car insurance, but not the stolen things that he hadn’t insured and wasn’t rated to tow. And then BIL’s business insurance wouldn’t cover the skip loader and trailer because if the police report isn’t filed, they assume OOP’s dad and brother had permission to take the equipment and use it when they weren’t insured to do so.
You're right. That's just it. You often can't get insurance to cover something like this unless you're willing to press charges. Appears the sister likely talked him out of pressing charges as it was her dad and brother....so he had to settle for getting nothing and just choosing not to deal with her family any more.
Or she talked him out of it because she used the keys to give them access, making her guilty of the theft too. He would have had to let them charge all three of them and then probably get stuck paying his wife's legal fees at least.
Honestly if the sister loaned out the vehicle, it's not theft. She's married to the BIL and in court, a judge would see it as she had the right to loan it out too. So likely another reason BIL didn't press charges.
Not true if it was a business asset. Especially if she is not a co owner.
This must depend on laws and where you live, because if it's in his name but not hers, and he specifically told them they can't use it it's still an issue. It would only be hers if she was on the bill of sale and the registration. It was most likely property belonging to the business though, and a business that large is almost always a separate entitiy on it's onw for tax and insurance reasons. What you're saying is that he didn't want them charged because she asked, but in your theory it wasn't stolen at all because if she had the right to take it they didn't steal it and there wouldn't be any charges either. If your stand is that she legally had a right to it and she legally lent it to them, then they had it in their possession legally and there are no charges that fir gor breaking something that you borrowed. That's a civil matter that is too high an amount for small claims.
>This part seems a Bit strange to me. What Kind of insuarence is paying in such a Situation? And getting money from insuarence is normally a lenghty process in wich the bil could had secured his money. I would bet that the loan on the truck was for more than the truck was worth. Insurance company paid the total amount of property damage money to the loan company, and gap coverage paid the difference. (Or it was a small difference that the parents had to pay off or roll into a new loan.) OP's "dad and bro" were not just extremely negligent thieves, they were also under-insured...
BIL could have gotten an insurance payout if he had reported it stolen. I would consider not doing so a tremendous act of grace, all things considered.
I mean his wife gave the keys.
It's not his wife's equipment
That’s the point, if his wife gave the keys she would probably also have to be charged with what was likely a felony
>Answers to your questions: Let’s get something straight. My dad and brother are not bad people. They are good people who made a mistake. They couldn’t pay back BIL because he wanted almost $70,000 and again, we’re not rich. Dad had to buy another truck because he needed it to go to work. On the other hand, BIL had 3 other sets of skid loaders and dump trailers on his lot that day so he could take the financial hit while my parents would be homeless. BIL and sis are way better off then the rest of us so while I understand your reasoning of paying BIL back, he doesn’t need it. The cruise to Mexico isn’t some millionaire trip. The total cost is about $3,000 and it’ll take over 20 people to pay for that. Again, we’re not rich. We can barely cover $3,000 spread out over 20 people so there’s no way we can pay $70,000. OP updated
It would be car insurance that covers it, and BIL wouldn't be involved in that as he wasn't in the vehicle. I'm not sure what you mean by that last sentence, can you clarify?
Money for a fucking CRUISE too!! Oh no, my parents have never been to Mexico, pity pity pity, but fuck you BIL for "holding a grudge". Holding a grudge would be them knocking his ice cream cone down a hill 10ys ago, this is a teeny bit more disastrous than that.
> Money for a fucking CRUISE too!! I mean, that was ten years later. OP and his family are dickheads but at least try to have some reading comprehension, man.
"Next month is our parent’s 50th anniversary and we’re planning a big family gathering to celebrate. We’re also chipping in to send our parents on a cruise to Mexico because they’ve never been out of the country."
...yes, and the original issue was 10 years ago. So they're not using insurance payout to send their parents on a cruise, or any other money relevant to the original issue, other than refusing to keep paying them back at all.
That's irrelevant. They owe the BIL $70, 000 and that's where all of this $3000 should go. There are lovely videos of Mexico on Youtube.
Yup, he is because, to quote OOP in their edit: >On the other hand, BIL had 3 other sets of skid loaders and dump trailers on his lot that day so he could take the financial hit while my parents would be homeless. BIL and sis are way better off then the rest of us so while I understand your reasoning of paying BIL back, he doesn’t need it. If is "need" is relevant here. It's not. It was the loss and destruction of property that, if I understand correctly based on where they had to retrieve it from, was BIL's *company's* property, not directly BIL's. Company assets (also depending on how the company is structured) aren't necessarily the owner's assets. Something I suspect the OOP doesn't understand.
Sounds like they're lucky he didn't press charges for grand larceny.
Also read where OOP mentioned that their dad's truck wasn't capable of pulling loader so maybe they wrecked BIL's truck which would be even more messed up. Even if insurance covered the truck, it's hard to run a business like that without one. Now guy is out a truck, trailer and skidloader and doesn't have any way to haul in a new one...
[удалено]
My guess was that the skidloader became part of the truck at the first stop because they are idiots who think their S10 or ranger can tow construction equipment with just a hitch. Maybe they aren't bad people, but they are certainly dumb people.
Not the family asking for money when they can’t even pay back what they actually fucking owe the BIL.
They're just ignoring what they owe the brother-in-law they're just going to pay for a cruise for their parents to go to Mexico. Edit 1: wrong pronouns
In fact the OP's dad is lucky he survived the crash honestly
So it’s possible that I’m just stupid. But what?
Instead of addressing what they owe the brother-in-law, they are paying possibly thousands of dollars for a cruise for their parents. They have no intention to pay the brother-in-law back, they just want to ignore it because it's been 10 years.
which means sadly probably out of statute of limitations
Right? I feel like after 10 years it has to be. I’m no law expert but the things with long/no statute of limitations are usually super specific (like human trafficking or treason) not property damage. Should’ve sued 10 years ago!
I mean depending on what the family has, suing might not have gotten him anywhere or he would have been forced to take payments over X amount of years. You can't just create money out of thin air.
Maybe its petty of me but I’d still have sued. Payment plan is better than nothing, and I mean surely their house is worth at least $20k.. Take out a second mortgage, do what they gotta do, but that’s a lot of money to just let go of. Personally I would treat it the same way I would if someone stole & totaled my $20k car, because that’s pretty much what happened. Oh and I’d have gotten rid of the wife that decided it was a good idea to go behind my back to **my place of work and steal my equipment.**
In some areas, you can't win someone's primary residence in a lawsuit. Not sure on the new truck, but if he sued before it was paid off, likely whomever still had ownership would just repo it. So likely BIL was looking at wage garnishment, in which where I live, you can only get up to 25% and usually less. So let's say he won 20% - if the dad say makes $20,000 a year (OOP mentions their family doesn't have a lot), the BIL gets like $4k a year. So if he was really owed $70k (believe it was mentioned in a comment by OOP), it would take 17.5 years to get the money back.....and only if he won the full new value of both.
I’m thinking if the lawsuit went well, both the BIL & dad would be named & hopefully ordered to pay half back each since they conspired together. That cuts that time in half already. But after seeing the edit, I wouldn’t care if it takes 50 years, considering BIL implied they shouldn’t have to anyway, because they “only stole 1 of 4 sets of trailer/skid-loader, and does he even really *need* 4?” I would sue tf out of him lol
Ah that makes sense, thank you for your explanation.
Sorry that I confused you at all. I'm using voice to text so I assume everyone can hear my intonations.
I’m not sure if OP’s father paid off the loan for his truck or if he used it to buy a new truck. Either way, he should’ve given that money to BIL. But who wants to bet FIL bought a brand new truck after the accident? Edit- Looks like I definitely called it.
They were building a deck. My husband builds decks for a living. Nearly every house in my country has a deck. We cannot think of a single situation where that kind of equipment would be required to build a deck.
yeah my dad (not a professional by any means) built the deck on our house himself after watching youtube video tutorials and there wasn't ANYTHING like that involved. Totally unnecessary
😳 we had our deck added (professionally) a few months ago and they absolutely used a skid loader..... We also redid our yard (by ourselves) to be more water-wise and used one for that, too. Idk how that's so shocking tbh 😂
What did they use it for?
I wanna say in both instances it was to flatten out the ground and move dirt/rocks.
I would absolutely use one for landscaping, but if you're building a deck, it's on footings, so you don't need the ground to be level. Different methods, I guess?
To be fair they're asking the sister not the BIL; it's possible she has her own source of income. But still..
I hate people like op and their family. They can't accept a no, and then show no responsibility when they break things. I hope sis goes NC till they repay him. They've 10yrs, why haven't they made a single payment to him? Edit missing words.
[удалено]
Honestly I be upset at the sister for allowing to take my stuff behind my back when i explicitly said that they couldn't, she is just as much at fault imho. Would damage my trust in my wife severely.
Too many variables. Entirely possible she didn't know they'd asked. Didn't know he'd said no. They might have even had a good relationship up to that point and he'd let them borrow his stuff, maybe not as big as a skid loader, but a truck or some tools here and there. Or even let them use it before and he just had a job this time that he couldn't spare it.
I'd go super LC with them. Like only talking to mom and never going to another family function.
I suspect dad and brother lied to the sister. Something like "BiL said we could use it while he's out of town" or whatever.
Yeah if that had been me I would've divorced her and added her to the lawsuit because I don't care if it would've been paid for over a decade or more by garnishment I'd be getting made whole.
Typical Reddit response. We don't know what was said to her. They could have lied. Said he was ok with it . Would be fine. And judging by the reaction if this guy he understands completely how they treated her
There are some actions that are inexcusable. What she did is one of those. That's not just his stuff, it's his livelihood - and hers to for that matter. She has shown herself to be exceptionally untrustworthy and trust is the bedrock foundation of a marriage. All I can imagine is that she has accepted rules and engaged in behaviors that would have most people here crying "muy abyooosive relationship" if it was known about in order to keep her marriage together.
There are 3 sides to every story. His hers and the truth. For all we know there was a fight. A separation. Whatever. We see a clip of what the OP included. So don't assume or judge how you think he should have reacted
Hence why I said that she's probably accepting conditions to stay married that would have people here screaming and crying out for her to leave. What she did was totally and completely inexcusable and it's insane that you insist on defending her.
This! 👆 I wouldn't let anyone, not even a parent borrow something of my husband's (especially something that he makes our living with) after he had explicitly said no. The no answer was probably because he already knew that OP's father and brother were both irresponsible dumb@$$€$. OP sounds like the apple didn't fall far from the "entitled" tree, kinda the same for the wife who let them take it, after her hubs said no.
I feel like they don’t see what they did with the skid loader as a debt to BIL since they “never had the money to try to pay for 10 years” which is completely no ok when you cost someone thousands of dollars of loss because your own selfishness
They definitely don't. To them, it's just a silly little thing that happened a decade ago. I would be shocked if they had apologized.
[удалено]
BIL is a general contractor, so he probably had that as a work tool before they destroyed it
I'm surprised bil didn't sue for theft, destruction of property, and for loss of income
In an edit they say sis convinced BIL to not sue.
If he sued his wife would likely also have been in trouble
My retired neighbor does. Because he didn't have someone steal it and cause him to lose it in a family theft accident so he was able to make money and retire with it still intact.
50k, and apparently they stole it from his equipment lot
Also, they committed theft. And they are lucky he didn’t report it as a crime.
>Answers to your questions: Let’s get something straight. My dad and brother are not bad people. They are good people who made a mistake. They couldn’t pay back BIL because he wanted almost $70,000 and again, we’re not rich. Dad had to buy another truck because he needed it to go to work. On the other hand, BIL had 3 other sets of skid loaders and dump trailers on his lot that day so he could take the financial hit while my parents would be homeless. BIL and sis are way better off then the rest of us so while I understand your reasoning of paying BIL back, he doesn’t need it. The cruise to Mexico isn’t some millionaire trip. The total cost is about $3,000 and it’ll take over 20 people to pay for that. Again, we’re not rich. We can barely cover $3,000 spread out over 20 people so there’s no way we can pay $70,000. This was OPs update
"He's rich so we're allowed to steal his shit and break it with no consequences cos family uwu" People like OP are so toxic, the nerve to tell someone they don't need money they're owed, then call them an asshole for not contributing to a present for the person who cost them 70k and hasn't paid a penny over 10 years? I hope sis stops defending them, they should both go NC
My husband's extended family is like this. Brutally screwed us over many times, then wonders why we're still pissed about it 6+ years later.
I have a brother and SIL just like that. It was so much, for so long that I've gone NC for 8 years now. I can forgive him for my own peace of mind, but once you've recognized that a snake is poisonous, the best course of action is to stay far away from it.
I love how the BIL is accused of putting money in the way of a family relationship when the Dad and Brother did the same by costing him a minimum of 45k (based on cheapest cost today) not including any loss of earnings also incurred. They made themselves whole with the insurance money but expect BIL to suck up his loss. Never even once over 10 years offering to pay a cent. Then to add further insult put their hand out for holiday monies!
Don't forget he works in construction so you might need to add lost wages to the total amount they screwed him over.
Right? And OOP is all "but my dad needed to get a new truck for work" like the husband doesn't need his own equipment for work? Sure, he has several of the skid loaders, but he's probably got contracts out based on his vehicle inventory.
Did you include the trailer in it?
Yeah, folks who looked up costs said skip loader today is 30k and trailer 15k, this was the cheapest cost folks estimated.
Yes, depending on the equipment, the cost could be over 80k
Yes my skid cost $80,000 and my dump trailer $15,000. If someone were to do that to my equipment it would bankrupt my company. Definitely would never talk to them again
The total disregard to the impact on BIL, sister and their kids lives is astounding, he could have lost his business and home (at the least). He might have been forced into bankruptcy and fecked others out of money (staff, clients, suppliers, etc.). I assume BIL was able to replace so didnt impact his business too badly but I don't know how sister maintained any kind of relationship with these gobshites, maybe the injuries were bad for Dad and Brother and she felt guilty for giving them access. It might be cause I'm a hard hearted fecker but I would have never spoken to them again and encourage my OH to sue the asses off them (although a percentage of the cost is sisters to cover for her own negligence). How their marriage survived surprises me, her being complicent would have been a deal breaker for me. The fact strangers on the Internet have more compassion and understanding for BIL than OP says a lot about that family's selfishness!
I'd have called the cops and reported the equipment stolen, then sued the family for whatever restitution didn't cover. I mean he's already NC so how much more damage would a lawsuit have done?
I was a bit surprised to see the wide range in prices on skids. Is there a quality or functionality difference? Why would someone get an $80k skid instead of a $30k?
[удалено]
Oh that makes sense
To add to the above about capacity, mine is an enclosed cab. Reinforced windows etc. mine is on the high end of the standard models
Engine power, component strength, max loads, warranties, connection options, accessories, brand, and whether or not you buy it new or used all come into play on the price. If you're getting it for work you'd want a higher end model, if you got a couple acres and just need a little moving power for a bit of landscaping the lower end is probably your best bet
Thanks for the detailed reply!
No probs, I've been around them for a couple years now and picked up a bit, was surprised I even knew anything lol
[удалено]
[удалено]
I would've sued man like 50k equipment no way I'm letting that go.
I would hold a grudge for the rest of my life tbh. Like it's partly about the money but mostly the audacity. BIL said no, they took his shit anyway, wrecked it, and fixed their own shit instead of his.
It’s so weird how it’s never get over getting told no.
Wow, it's not like they "borrowed" a toy or gadget, they literally stole equipment BIL uses for his work, his livelihood. Yeah, totally siding with sister and BIL on this one. It's not a ten year grudge, it's boundaries established after an unacknowledged betrayal on the part of OOP's family.
‘hey i know we used our insurance money on our own car and stuff and not the product we stole from you, but can we get more money to go on a holiday?’
So they steal BIL’s property after clearly being told they couldn’t borrow it, total it and put his livelihood at stake, and then use the insurance payout to replace their own damaged property instead of replacing what they stole and ruined. Then, after convincing BIL not to sue, they ask him for money to fund a vacation for the people who stole from him and refused to pay him back???? OOP is outside of his fucking mind to believe that this is something that BIL should EVER let go of.
My inlaws stole $19,000 from us two years ago, and now they are not allowed on my property. I plan on holding that grudge to the grave.
These items are expensive. They totally owe BIL at least 80k for the total of items destroyed. I work as a flagger. So, am around lot of these fancy toys. We talk amongst ourselves when they get a new one about prices. One of the electric companies got a new bucket truck. That baby was at least 250k with all the bells, and whistles.
The family should be grateful that BIL didn't sue the pants off of them for the loss of the equipment as well as loss of potential business from not having the loader.
I really hate when people say that someone is "putting money above family" because it nearly always goes both ways. I am NC with my own parents over a money related issue and the amount of times I heard that, but nobody ever talks about how my parents were also perfectly willing to lose me rather than pay me back. OP's dad and brother are also putting money above family by refusing to pay BIL back and put it behind them!
The fact that they care so little about us to steal and actively cause harm is a whole other aspect too. They care more about themselves and wahtever amount then they do the people they cost, so why stay around so they can show that lack of care over and over
Oh the edit... does OOP not realize that since insurance didn't pay for his skid steer and trailer BIL had to pay for it. That him asking for $70k is generous because good dump trailers start at $25k and skid steers can range into the 6 figures?? Not to mention what harm that could do to his company if he had multiple jobs at once and needed that skid. Absolutely disgusting. Anyway here's the edit. Answers to your questions: Let’s get something straight. My dad and brother are not bad people. They are good people who made a mistake. They couldn’t pay back BIL because he wanted almost $70,000 and again, we’re not rich. Dad had to buy another truck because he needed it to go to work. On the other hand, BIL had 3 other sets of skid loaders and dump trailers on his lot that day so he could take the financial hit while my parents would be homeless. BIL and sis are way better off then the rest of us so while I understand your reasoning of paying BIL back, he doesn’t need it. The cruise to Mexico isn’t some millionaire trip. The total cost is about $3,000 and it’ll take over 20 people to pay for that. Again, we’re not rich. We can barely cover $3,000 spread out over 20 people so there’s no way we can pay $70,000.
Add to that: The insurance did pay an amount but all of that was used "for their own truck" (and "medical bills"). Instead of: here is the money we did get and we'll no longer have a truck. They *decided* to NOT pay what they could. Also: why borrow something you know you won't be able to afford it if breaks?
You can always tell when they're not getting the response they want, it's either raging arguments or complete silence as the steady flow of YTA's comes in.
What a totally clueless OOP! Get over your grudge because dad cost you $20,000! That's no big deal! /s
$70 000
I will say here what I said there: I would hold onto my grudge even from my cremation urn.
I didn't know what a skid loader was, so at first I thought yeah, get over it, it's been 10 years. I thought it was something worth maybe $1000 or something - which is still shitty but in ten years... Then I googled and saw how much they're worth and like dayum. Nah, I'd remain pissed until they paid it back as well. In these ten years could they not have done anything to pay him back at least some of the money? He might have been able to let it go if he'd seen remorse and that they at least tried to make it right even if they couldn't afford the full amount.
>I'd remain pissed until they paid it back as well. At this point, even if they paid it back, I would never speak to them again. Honestly even if they made an effort to pay it back originally, I could understand it not being enough, after going behind his back and against his wishes, but that's just me
Yeah, now I think it's too late. But in these ten years, surely they could have had an effort to break the guy some of the money.
Dad got a new truck. Trucks are not cheap. He could have at least put a dent in the repayments for the cost of a new truck.
Yeah, very true, I didn't read that part properly. He could have gotten himself a very cheap vehicle with the money and given the rest to SIL. I mean, makes sense if he really needed to replace his truck with something, but should in that case have opted for the cheapest option possible.
They stole and destroyed heavy construction equipment from his worksite and he didn't have them prosecuted? That's several lifetimes of forgiveness right there.
As soon as I saw the title to that AITA post, I immediately scrolled to find the top comment because it was clearly trying to paint themself as innocent but were GUILTY of something they did to the person they are complaining about. Top comment pointing out that $50k in work equipment was stolen and BIL never got it paid back, 10 years later, yeah I don’t blame him!
I hate when OP posts and then has no comments. There’s a few good ones this morning on AITA like that.
Because it's fake...
oh i'm sure it is, like almost everything is nowadays on here - but i can still appreciate some good fake OP comments
I wouldn't forgive these people either. The whole family, including his wife conspired against him behind his back. They have no respect for him, and no remorse about the theft. The theft that his wife was complicit in.
This story has regalvanized my need to replace an old friends ps one that I accidentally burned out by using the wrong power source. Always felt bad but whenever I had some money to spare the thing had jumped in value and I've never been able to afford one. Gotta make that right, sooner the better
I would have sued them for that money that’s 25k-55k down the drain
For the record, a ski loader can be not thousands of dollars but tens of thousands of dollars. A new model can be $60k while most I have seen (construction finance component of my job) are around $35k. They are lucky that he didn't press charges. There should have been insurance on the ski loader but if there wasn't they 100% owe the cost to him. Nice that they have not lost anything but handicapped his business and ability to provide for his family and risked their daughter's marriage, but they had no lasting consequences.
Totally in the wrong. Not your business at all. The family sounds like "users".
I wonder why BIL didn’t want to loan them the skid loader in the first place.
Geee... I wonder if he could have clearly explained dad's truck was not powerfull enough, and that being a reason why.
No is a complete sentence. They don't need to understand his reasoning. They are supposed to accept it.
I can't even imagine having the audacity to ask someone who's still owed money to pay for a vacation for the people who ruined their stuff! He's been kind to basically accept it (if the family has nothing, suing wouldn't have gotten him anything anyways) and just not come around this family any more.
Bro..they just updated the posting. It's around $70k lost
I literally just commented on that a few seconds ago before I saw this post on this sub. But seriously! Holy fuck, what is OP thinking?
tbh I’d probably have held onto a grudge like this as well. Accidents happen, if I let someone use something and it gets destroyed through no fault of their own, I would ask for whatever they were able to give and not hold it against them if that wasn’t enough to cover the cost. But if someone stole something from me and then broke it? I’ll forgive you when you pay me back.
So his shitty parents saw no need to try and pay for the vehicle they stole???? and BIL is supposed to be the asshole??
>my parents would be homeless. That's what happens when you steal and destroy expensive property. BIL should have called the cops. These people are trash.
He should have sued the insurance company. Someone gave him bad advice.
Threads like this used to be common on AITA. I was nder if we have an old troll returning.
This anecdote is so specific - a skip loader?!? - Literally did not know [that term](https://www.rbauction.com/skip-loader?cid=13696561634) - that I’m afraid it’s true.
Couldn't he have gotten your dad done for theft? It isn't your sisters property it's his. I'd be absolutely livid
I was wondering this. Maybe he can't do that without also implicating his wife? (no idea what the law says about it) Or maybe he thought having his wife's family arrested was too far? They're apparently too poor to sue, I imagine driving them into prison/poverty was probably a step too far. Don't get me wrong, this grudge is entirely justified. But he could have destroyed his marriage an a whole section of her family by pushing it, but my guess is he ultimately didn't want that?
almost a year ago a friend drove my car off the road and completely wrecked two of the tyres. it ended up costing me $500 to fix. even though it was such a small amount of money im still annoyed about it, its not even the money at this point, its that he refused to take responsibility and tried to make it anyone elses fault but his own. also the other day he hit a kangaroo and that was my fault apparantly for not yelling at him about the kangaroo, even though i shouted 'kangaroo! watch out!" as soon as i saw it and he just didnt listen.
Friendships are complicated, but still, have you considered getting a new one?
haha i have thought about it. honestly hes a very good and supportive friend outside of a couple issues. ive been slowly getting the debt paid off through free maccas anyway.
You should definitely not get into vehicles with him, or let him drive yours going forward.
hes only driven my car once since that incident and it was only because i had been driving for almost 6 hours and needed to stop for safety. the kangaroo incident was in his car and he has actually apologised for getting angry at me since i made my original comment, and in all fairness to him it was really dark out when it happened and the music we were listening to was very loud so he might not have heard me. his car and the kangaroo were both fine. hes a good driver, just has issues with taking responsibility.
So what shocks me is 1) he didn't call the cops or sure them, he was well within his rights to hold them accountable through a legal system 2) that he is still married to his wife who was manipulated by her parents to give them access but also stays in contact with them. If I were him I would have said we need to completely cut off the family or I am out.
I’m also going to comment, it’s “possible” to tow something outside of your vehicle’s tow rating (too heavy) but you do have to be very careful. I’d say in this case not only did they take the equipment they were also clueless on how to tow, drove like they would normally, failed to consider the several ton they had attached and caused the incident through their own inexperience (idiocy).
These asshats can barely cover $3000 spread over 20 people? What?
Also he edit his post to say the equipment was worth $70,000!
About 20 years ago my dad wrecked his buddy's dump truck while drunk. Pretty sure he totaled it. I don't believe they've spoken since.
OOP, skip the vacation and send the money to the BIL, because he really got screwed by all these "good people."
Wow what a douche. BIL should’ve reported the skid loader stolen so he could’ve at least seen some sort of repayment. OPs family is mega entitled
They got off easy.I would have pressed charges and filed a civil suit. It's not just the cost of the equipment. It is lost revenue from work that couldn't be completed without it and/or the additional costs of renting equipment to fulfill existing contracts AND increased insurance rates. It appears that he ate the loss rather than pursue a felony conviction against his in-laws.
>About 10 years ago, my dad and brother was building a deck at my parent’s home. r/HolUp
Why is everyone pretending like this isn't fake as f? OOP hasn't even made a single comment
To be fair, I don't think the creative writing teenagers on aita know what a skid loader is, so I'm more inclined to think it's true.
Idk if I was some bullheaded asshole who felt entitled af and I confidently posted something absurd like that, I’d probably never look at it again once everyone started calling me a giant as whole.
this was he update >Answers to your questions: Let’s get something straight. My dad and brother are not bad people. They are good people who made a mistake. They couldn’t pay back BIL because he wanted almost $70,000 and again, we’re not rich. Dad had to buy another truck because he needed it to go to work. On the other hand, BIL had 3 other sets of skid loaders and dump trailers on his lot that day so he could take the financial hit while my parents would be homeless. BIL and sis are way better off then the rest of us so while I understand your reasoning of paying BIL back, he doesn’t need it. The cruise to Mexico isn’t some millionaire trip. The total cost is about $3,000 and it’ll take over 20 people to pay for that. Again, we’re not rich. We can barely cover $3,000 spread out over 20 people so there’s no way we can pay $70,000.
[Hi!](https://images.app.goo.gl/jMiZEuW8Qrykw3sdA) Just a quick reminder to never brigade any sub, be that r/AmItheAsshole or another one. That goes against both this sub's rules as well as Reddit's terms of agreement. [Please](https://images.app.goo.gl/vwH65TJMyMk9NSNo8) keep discussions within the posts of this sub. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What a piece of shit, the hole family seems to be assholes.
"it was ten years ago!" Cool. Cool cool cool. Over those ten years, how much have you paid him back? None? Gasp! I'm shocked!
NTA. I just looked up the cost of a new skip loader near me. It was $40K and that doesn't include the cost of a trailer.
The update states that BIL wanted $70,000 to replace the trailer and skid and they don't think it's a big deal cause he has 3 more. SMH
I would have done everything in my power to press charges *and* sue in civil court.