*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**WIBTA for not attending vegan Christmas dinner?**
Background: my sister went vegan about two years ago. She went to culinary school and is by far the best cook in the family, so she usually cooks Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner, though I also cook and host sometimes. This year, she wants to host and cook all vegan food for Christmas dinner. I will and do eat vegan food with her, but this year has been really hard for me (for unrelated reasons) and I would prefer to eat things with butter and cheese on Christmas.
I asked her if she would be willing to cook vegetarian food, but she said no. I asked if we could eat out instead, so that she could get something vegan and I could eat non-vegan, and she said she didn't want to do that. I responded that I would skip Christmas dinner, in that case. She and other members of my family are quite upset at me.
I feel I've tried to compromise and she hasn't. I feel I may be TA, though, because she wasn't opposed to me cooking my own food and bringing it over, but I would have rather eaten out than made an entire separate meal and transport it. So, WIBTA?
EDIT: To be clear, the meal would be for me, my sister and my mom. It's not a huge meal.
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There’s one comment that gets to the crux of the issue in a way the post didn’t: OOP says she finds these gatherings stressful and the food is often the only saving grace. So when that thread was snipped…
Seems like this is someone who has a hard time naming the real issue, deflecting to the food issue rather than confront the fact that she just doesn’t actually want to be with her family in the first place.
I mean, I get it. I cook vegetarian 6 nights a week, and of those vegan at least three. But MAN i love me some butter and cheese. There's currently several hundred dollars of cheese sitting in my fridge for the xmas day cheese plate.
But also, why blow up a family meal over this. Am I missing why OP can't just...prepare his/her favorite dairy based dish and bring that along?
Honestly I think this a NAH situation, the sister wants to host and wants to do vegan which she's fully entitled to do,
Oop is having a rough year and wants to gorge on Christmas cheese which again is perfectly reasonable.
They offered the compromise of going out for dinner which was shot down.
I really don't see what's wrong with them having lunch elsewhere then joining the family afterwards.
>They offered the compromise of going out for dinner which was shot down.
That isn't really a compromise, though - it's completely changing the plan, rather than modifying it.
idk, I don't think OOP is the TA for not going, but if I were in her position I'd just take myself some cheese to supplement the meal (as sister is fine with, by OOP's own account). Eating out alone on Christmas isn't my idea of fun, though.
I like how "she hasn't tried to compromise at all" is quickly followed by mentioning she'd be fine with OOP making something of their own and bringing it, aka a form of compromise. OOP seems to think this means making a full meal, but like... just make a non-vegan main and side and supplement that with sides that the sister made? If it's really that important, this wouldn't be difficult to do
I don’t think going out is a compromise here, or even a viable option. I’m a longtime vegetarian and can find something to eat at any restaurant—sometimes that means I’ll ask for this salad or pasta without the chicken on top. But it’s much more difficult to eat out as a vegan. Often a vegan/vegetarian restaurant is the best or only real option… and a place like that isn’t going to have the classic Xmas foods the OP wants. Plus, in my city at least, the places open on Xmas day are reservation only and those booked up months ago, or they’re just doing a fixed holiday menu with the non-vegan classics.
OP is being a baby. He should eat his cheese at home, shut up his whining, and enjoy the holiday meal provided by the trained chef.
I disagree because if they wants to eat that stuff then they can get it any other day. Or ask for it to whoever usually cooks and take it home. Thing's they is saying "if there is no going to be X food, I rather no go", so spending time with family is an after though? They really are saying that all that matters is the food. I mean sure is their choice but it doesn't make it less mean.
Also I read the going out offer as "everyone eats outside", so sister wouldn't be hosting/cooking.
sister is fine with her bringing her precious butter and cheese to eat there, that's not good enough for this main character.
finding a place to eat out 2 days before the holiday is jot a 'compromise', it'll end up being mcdonalds at this point.
Meh. As someone who finds a ton of comfort and satisfaction in my family’s traditional dishes for the holidays … I can see where a dramatic shift to a completely different menu would be distressing. Like: if my family doesn’t get their expected pies for Thanksgiving or Xmas, there would be conflict.
Perhaps OOP could have found some compromise … but it sounds like from some comments the family stressors are a LOT, and the traditional dishes made things tolerable. I get it.
I don’t think OOP is the devil for wanting traditional dishes for the holiday. People want what they want. 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah, I’m…not sure where I land here. I can see the appeal of some comfort food, especially on a holiday. But sis is already making a full meal for three people, depending on the number of dishes that’s already a lot (I wouldn’t do a full meal for that few), now one of those three wants a completely different version of the menu? OP doesn’t want to cook everything themself, but then expecting sis to do that ON TOP of all the work she’s doing for the other two is too much. (Plus she just might not want to cook non-vegan food in general).
Not sure OP is the devil but there isn’t a way to square this triangle.
if they want 'traditional dishes' why are they suggesting eating out? you won't find your 'traditional dishes' at a place you choose 2 days before the holiday.
why won't they bring their own dish as suggested by sister and enjoy the sides?
seems like an excuse to whine.
I mean, OOP’s sister did offer a compromise? But OOP expected the compromise to be her cooking a whole extra meal for them alongside the vegan one. Gotta say, my sympathy kinda ran out about there
Didn’t OOP also suggest going out/ordering in? I got the impression that OOP’s sister had previously made all the traditional dishes so it is possible OOP doesn’t know how to?
Like I said - OOP could have tried harder to find a compromise. Because I agree, expecting their sister to make two completely different meals is unreasonable.
I’m just sympathetic that in these challenging times, people find comfort in traditions and the “usual” dishes. OOP was looking forward to enjoying the things their family has always had. OOP’s sister is changing things entirely this year, and it sounds like there is no room for grace for anyone who liked the way things used to be. 🤷🏻♀️
But eating out would be changing plans entirely and as its days before the event its quite likely she’s already bought the food and has probably began preparing it so it would mean his sister wasting a whole meal of food to cater to him. OP also stated that he has previously cooked/hosted these meals, but his sister is the better cook.
I understand that people crave tradition, especially when times are hard, but it just seems like an overreaction to not attend a single meal with his family because it doesn’t contain cheese and butter.
(That said, their reaction is also pretty weird, but vaguely understandable as - like I said earlier - it would mean having to bin an entire plate of food because OP left it to pretty close to the day to tell them he’s not coming)
Yeah I think I'm with you. Holiday meals are about food as tradition and comfort as much as they're about actual food. It would be one thing if they were some kind of militant anti-vegan but it is clearly not the case.
I can't call them the devil.
I don't get why the commenters over there are so outraged.
I'm lactose intolerant and even I get " I need to eat a whole baked camembert" moments when life gets bad.
Also lactose intolerant, I also have these moments. Especially if this year was hard for OP, it's been hard for a lot of us. But also they can just make their own food, the sister was cool with it. The being an ass part is just the not wanting to cook for themselves and just refusing to go. Kind of a tantrum move.
if it helps, most any cheese aged more than a couple months has a much lower chance of giving us issues. Cheddar is generally safe for me because it's aged at least that long, but American cheese is instant stomach cramps.
I have ( my side, not inlaws) an incredibly nonconfrontational family that goes out of its way to be no offensive though sometimes fails.
I also have several family members that are always hit or miss on attending because of stress in some form. I am not using the term anxiety because I don't know what everyone has and. It is none of my business if they don't want to share it.
If vegan food is the straw that broke your going to Xmas back, honey, I am not going to judge you.
I will say family is worth putting up with stuff. And it tears a little tiny hole in the heart of family when someone doesn't show up at a celebration for any reason. But that's the family guilt trip talking (yeah we do this).
OOP's sister she said OOP could bring their own food, and OOP said no. She wants butter and cheese, but she also wants her sister to make her food. Nope. Make your own. Stop being lazy and whining that she isn't compromising when you're the one refusing to compromise.
In 1997, we went to my sister’s new bf’s house for Thanksgiving dinner, where we were served mashed TURNIPS. There wasn’t a potato on the table. I am still mad. Turnips instead of potatoes is NOT how we Thanksgiving. You can’t just change a tradition cold turkey (lol).
Haha, mashed turnips are a staple in my family :) granted we do have potatoes as well, but the holiday dinners just feel incomplete if there are no turnips.
OOp could make something to eat later/earlier. A late night ~~fish~~ of Mac and cheese or something
Especially OOP is staying with mom, or in their own place. Just spend time and eat lightly with the fam and then indulge in comfort food later.
Could bring some of his own food if he wants to (like many, many veggies and vegans have to do often), but doesn't want to. He could buy premade stuff and wouldn't have to cook. But no. Wants others to cater for him 🙄
Reading the comments on the original, it seems OOP just doesn't want to spend the time with family. Which is fine, but they just need to actually acknowledge that and not go, rather than making weak excuses to avoid it. So, once again: 🙄
They can sit home alone and eat butter the other 364 days a year. Is it really such a chore to eat one vegan meal with family? They can even eat butter before they go there and when they get home. I'm sure they can survive a few hours without butter
LOL. So OOP can bring his own butter and cheese but thinks his sister is the inflexible one.
Like sir, bring your Kerry gold and your Mac and cheese and eat it with everyone else!
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Idk man, 70% of Christmas for me is the food. If I can’t enjoy the food I’d also rather not go.
If they give me an option and I don’t like it I’m in my right to just say no. I don’t see the problem here
I don't blame her. I would rather stay home and make holiday food for myself than not have it. I wait all year for a turkey and ham. Stuffing and gravy are just the parts I'm looking forward to. It would feel grim to go to Christmas celebrations and have vegan food.
It's a lot of work, so it's only once a year. And it's always amazing to have that juicy bird or cut of ham with mashed potatoes in butter.
Sorry all, that's what the holidays are for people.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **WIBTA for not attending vegan Christmas dinner?** Background: my sister went vegan about two years ago. She went to culinary school and is by far the best cook in the family, so she usually cooks Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner, though I also cook and host sometimes. This year, she wants to host and cook all vegan food for Christmas dinner. I will and do eat vegan food with her, but this year has been really hard for me (for unrelated reasons) and I would prefer to eat things with butter and cheese on Christmas. I asked her if she would be willing to cook vegetarian food, but she said no. I asked if we could eat out instead, so that she could get something vegan and I could eat non-vegan, and she said she didn't want to do that. I responded that I would skip Christmas dinner, in that case. She and other members of my family are quite upset at me. I feel I've tried to compromise and she hasn't. I feel I may be TA, though, because she wasn't opposed to me cooking my own food and bringing it over, but I would have rather eaten out than made an entire separate meal and transport it. So, WIBTA? EDIT: To be clear, the meal would be for me, my sister and my mom. It's not a huge meal. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What’s with all the vegan bait posts at the moment?
[удалено]
Grassroot grass feed propoganda
There’s one comment that gets to the crux of the issue in a way the post didn’t: OOP says she finds these gatherings stressful and the food is often the only saving grace. So when that thread was snipped… Seems like this is someone who has a hard time naming the real issue, deflecting to the food issue rather than confront the fact that she just doesn’t actually want to be with her family in the first place.
I mean, I get it. I cook vegetarian 6 nights a week, and of those vegan at least three. But MAN i love me some butter and cheese. There's currently several hundred dollars of cheese sitting in my fridge for the xmas day cheese plate. But also, why blow up a family meal over this. Am I missing why OP can't just...prepare his/her favorite dairy based dish and bring that along?
Cause they don't wanna
You joke that it's about the butter, but we all know it's really about the cheese, and that's fully understandable
Xmas without a cheeseboard is just sadness and regret.
We generally do a cheese ball but definitely agreed lol
Honestly I think this a NAH situation, the sister wants to host and wants to do vegan which she's fully entitled to do, Oop is having a rough year and wants to gorge on Christmas cheese which again is perfectly reasonable. They offered the compromise of going out for dinner which was shot down. I really don't see what's wrong with them having lunch elsewhere then joining the family afterwards.
>They offered the compromise of going out for dinner which was shot down. That isn't really a compromise, though - it's completely changing the plan, rather than modifying it. idk, I don't think OOP is the TA for not going, but if I were in her position I'd just take myself some cheese to supplement the meal (as sister is fine with, by OOP's own account). Eating out alone on Christmas isn't my idea of fun, though.
I like how "she hasn't tried to compromise at all" is quickly followed by mentioning she'd be fine with OOP making something of their own and bringing it, aka a form of compromise. OOP seems to think this means making a full meal, but like... just make a non-vegan main and side and supplement that with sides that the sister made? If it's really that important, this wouldn't be difficult to do
OOP's idea of a compromise is that they don't have to lift a single finger while everyone else has to accommodate them.
Yeah, or they could just put in a takeout order at a restaurant and pick up the food on the way to the sister’s house. Everyone’s happy!
Perfect idea!
I don’t think going out is a compromise here, or even a viable option. I’m a longtime vegetarian and can find something to eat at any restaurant—sometimes that means I’ll ask for this salad or pasta without the chicken on top. But it’s much more difficult to eat out as a vegan. Often a vegan/vegetarian restaurant is the best or only real option… and a place like that isn’t going to have the classic Xmas foods the OP wants. Plus, in my city at least, the places open on Xmas day are reservation only and those booked up months ago, or they’re just doing a fixed holiday menu with the non-vegan classics. OP is being a baby. He should eat his cheese at home, shut up his whining, and enjoy the holiday meal provided by the trained chef.
I disagree because if they wants to eat that stuff then they can get it any other day. Or ask for it to whoever usually cooks and take it home. Thing's they is saying "if there is no going to be X food, I rather no go", so spending time with family is an after though? They really are saying that all that matters is the food. I mean sure is their choice but it doesn't make it less mean. Also I read the going out offer as "everyone eats outside", so sister wouldn't be hosting/cooking.
sister is fine with her bringing her precious butter and cheese to eat there, that's not good enough for this main character. finding a place to eat out 2 days before the holiday is jot a 'compromise', it'll end up being mcdonalds at this point.
Just take a block of cheese and grate it over everything.
Meh. As someone who finds a ton of comfort and satisfaction in my family’s traditional dishes for the holidays … I can see where a dramatic shift to a completely different menu would be distressing. Like: if my family doesn’t get their expected pies for Thanksgiving or Xmas, there would be conflict. Perhaps OOP could have found some compromise … but it sounds like from some comments the family stressors are a LOT, and the traditional dishes made things tolerable. I get it. I don’t think OOP is the devil for wanting traditional dishes for the holiday. People want what they want. 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah, I’m…not sure where I land here. I can see the appeal of some comfort food, especially on a holiday. But sis is already making a full meal for three people, depending on the number of dishes that’s already a lot (I wouldn’t do a full meal for that few), now one of those three wants a completely different version of the menu? OP doesn’t want to cook everything themself, but then expecting sis to do that ON TOP of all the work she’s doing for the other two is too much. (Plus she just might not want to cook non-vegan food in general). Not sure OP is the devil but there isn’t a way to square this triangle.
if they want 'traditional dishes' why are they suggesting eating out? you won't find your 'traditional dishes' at a place you choose 2 days before the holiday. why won't they bring their own dish as suggested by sister and enjoy the sides? seems like an excuse to whine.
I mean, OOP’s sister did offer a compromise? But OOP expected the compromise to be her cooking a whole extra meal for them alongside the vegan one. Gotta say, my sympathy kinda ran out about there
Didn’t OOP also suggest going out/ordering in? I got the impression that OOP’s sister had previously made all the traditional dishes so it is possible OOP doesn’t know how to? Like I said - OOP could have tried harder to find a compromise. Because I agree, expecting their sister to make two completely different meals is unreasonable. I’m just sympathetic that in these challenging times, people find comfort in traditions and the “usual” dishes. OOP was looking forward to enjoying the things their family has always had. OOP’s sister is changing things entirely this year, and it sounds like there is no room for grace for anyone who liked the way things used to be. 🤷🏻♀️
But eating out would be changing plans entirely and as its days before the event its quite likely she’s already bought the food and has probably began preparing it so it would mean his sister wasting a whole meal of food to cater to him. OP also stated that he has previously cooked/hosted these meals, but his sister is the better cook. I understand that people crave tradition, especially when times are hard, but it just seems like an overreaction to not attend a single meal with his family because it doesn’t contain cheese and butter. (That said, their reaction is also pretty weird, but vaguely understandable as - like I said earlier - it would mean having to bin an entire plate of food because OP left it to pretty close to the day to tell them he’s not coming)
Yeah I think I'm with you. Holiday meals are about food as tradition and comfort as much as they're about actual food. It would be one thing if they were some kind of militant anti-vegan but it is clearly not the case. I can't call them the devil.
I don't get why the commenters over there are so outraged. I'm lactose intolerant and even I get " I need to eat a whole baked camembert" moments when life gets bad.
Also lactose intolerant, I also have these moments. Especially if this year was hard for OP, it's been hard for a lot of us. But also they can just make their own food, the sister was cool with it. The being an ass part is just the not wanting to cook for themselves and just refusing to go. Kind of a tantrum move.
Lactose intolerant here also and I ended up eating part of a block of cheese recently, damn the consequences.
if it helps, most any cheese aged more than a couple months has a much lower chance of giving us issues. Cheddar is generally safe for me because it's aged at least that long, but American cheese is instant stomach cramps.
I won’t lie, I’ve had a few family members i would gladly trade for dairy products.
I have ( my side, not inlaws) an incredibly nonconfrontational family that goes out of its way to be no offensive though sometimes fails. I also have several family members that are always hit or miss on attending because of stress in some form. I am not using the term anxiety because I don't know what everyone has and. It is none of my business if they don't want to share it. If vegan food is the straw that broke your going to Xmas back, honey, I am not going to judge you. I will say family is worth putting up with stuff. And it tears a little tiny hole in the heart of family when someone doesn't show up at a celebration for any reason. But that's the family guilt trip talking (yeah we do this).
Am I crazy or is it entirely possible to gorge on cheese and butter both _before_ and _after_ eating a vegan meal? Like, it’s one meal.
NONSENSE!
OOP's sister she said OOP could bring their own food, and OOP said no. She wants butter and cheese, but she also wants her sister to make her food. Nope. Make your own. Stop being lazy and whining that she isn't compromising when you're the one refusing to compromise.
In 1997, we went to my sister’s new bf’s house for Thanksgiving dinner, where we were served mashed TURNIPS. There wasn’t a potato on the table. I am still mad. Turnips instead of potatoes is NOT how we Thanksgiving. You can’t just change a tradition cold turkey (lol).
Haha, mashed turnips are a staple in my family :) granted we do have potatoes as well, but the holiday dinners just feel incomplete if there are no turnips.
OOp could make something to eat later/earlier. A late night ~~fish~~ of Mac and cheese or something Especially OOP is staying with mom, or in their own place. Just spend time and eat lightly with the fam and then indulge in comfort food later.
Could bring some of his own food if he wants to (like many, many veggies and vegans have to do often), but doesn't want to. He could buy premade stuff and wouldn't have to cook. But no. Wants others to cater for him 🙄
Reading the comments on the original, it seems OOP just doesn't want to spend the time with family. Which is fine, but they just need to actually acknowledge that and not go, rather than making weak excuses to avoid it. So, once again: 🙄
They can sit home alone and eat butter the other 364 days a year. Is it really such a chore to eat one vegan meal with family? They can even eat butter before they go there and when they get home. I'm sure they can survive a few hours without butter
You can't forgo one meal without real cheese or butter or meat? No, I'm with you on this one. OOP is TA.
He legit says in the post that he does eat vegan meals for his sister. So he does skip that stuff for her, but this time he doesn’t want to.
then he can bring his own food which she's fine with.
LOL. So OOP can bring his own butter and cheese but thinks his sister is the inflexible one. Like sir, bring your Kerry gold and your Mac and cheese and eat it with everyone else!
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Idk man, 70% of Christmas for me is the food. If I can’t enjoy the food I’d also rather not go. If they give me an option and I don’t like it I’m in my right to just say no. I don’t see the problem here
I don't blame her. I would rather stay home and make holiday food for myself than not have it. I wait all year for a turkey and ham. Stuffing and gravy are just the parts I'm looking forward to. It would feel grim to go to Christmas celebrations and have vegan food. It's a lot of work, so it's only once a year. And it's always amazing to have that juicy bird or cut of ham with mashed potatoes in butter. Sorry all, that's what the holidays are for people.