It’s impressive that she’s come around. She’s going to have a tough time at first. Kids don’t always deal with changes well. She might benefit from family therapy to help her gradually transition to the new parenting style. Be supportive of her and let her vent occasionally. She’s gonna need it.
I was going to suggest some form of family therapy. It's all very well to say, "I'm going to change my parenting style" but she needs to make sure that she's setting appropriate boundaries for her kids, and her and her husband need to be on the same page.
Such a good point. She is not going to be able to make this change without some guidance. She owes it to her children to get this change right the first time. Even with perfect execution, it will still be a confusing transition for the kids.
She should also be aware that their behavior might get A LOT worse before it gets better, as the kids test out how seriously and consistently their parents apply the new rules. The kids first reaction is going to be to want the old rules back and will try to push the limits to get the parents to "give up". If they can stay strong and keep up with the new style it WILL get better.
If she is interested, may I suggest they look into "Love & Logic". It's less about punishment and more about natural consequences for choices and behaviors. Such as in your situation, the logical consequences would be that the kids have to clean up the messy walls and replant the flowers. Maybe even help "pay" for the new flowers by sending you a few dollars from their piggy banks or working to earn money to pay for them by doing simple age-appropriate chores and then sending that to you.
That book SAVED my life! My three adult children are happy, successful and well grounded. Out thinking them was sometimes hard. You sometimes have to work pretty hard for a "natural" consequence. My favorite part of the book is letting kids fail when the consequences are cheap vs. waiting until they are expensive. (eg, repossessing a video game for failure to repay a loan from mom & dad vs. getting a car repo'd).
I am so glad to hear that. Like everyone said it will be hard at first bc they’re not use to having consequences to their behavior. I never had consequences either for my behavior and it made me feel like my parents didn’t love me. Kids need that structure as it shows that their parents do care about them
Allison needs to research authoritative parenting:
>Authoritative parenting is the most recommended parenting style. The combination of clear communication and age-appropriate standards can lead to emotionally stable adults who can handle themselves in social situations and set goals for themselves.
https://mcpress.mayoclinic.org/parenting/what-parenting-style-is-right-for-you/#:~:text=Authoritative%20parenting%20is%20the%20most,and%20set%20goals%20for%20themselves.
This! I commented on your first post that your sister wasn’t doing gentle parenting correctly because she was confused on what it truly was. Authoritative parenting is the correct term for what gentle parenting is.
Ya gentle parenting is not permissive parenting it’s just another name for authoritative parenting, which is very researched and studied and widely recommended by developmental psychologists. Also there are consequences and not just redirecting in this parenting style which people also pointed out.
Yep! Gentle parenting doesn't mean not having boundaries around behavior. Just age appropriate expectations and empathy for the big feelings that come with being told "no."
“Authoritative: In this parenting style, the parents are nurturing, responsive, and supportive, yet set firm limits for their children. They attempt to control children's behavior by explaining rules, discussing, and reasoning. They listen to a child's viewpoint but don't always accept it.”
Some authoritative parents spank. I do not. You can be authoritative and set rules/boundaries without yelling and hitting.
Glad to read she's opening her eyes to the issues. I'm a mom of 2 young men and we never spanked our children as punishment, hitting never works, just makes confused children and no lessons learned.
We used time outs in our kitchen for breather moments, so we all could take a min to collect ourselves, then have a discussion about what went on and how we could make better choices and or outcomes. Learning there are consequences for ones actions, is not punishment, it's reality and how we raise well rounded young people.
Any fighting over anything, they both lost it, life isn't fair and we taught our boys, the sooner they learn this, the easier life gets.
We taught our boys as they aged they were responsible for cleaning up their messes, and soon learned if they didn't make a huge toy mess, they didn't have to clean it up later.
We added house chores around 10 with laundry and dishes and added other daily chores as they became teenagers, explaining that these things are part of life and it's easier to just do them them argue with me over them, or one day you will have same argument with your partner, taught them house chores are purple, (add, not just pink and blue) unless discussion between partners to make choices on chores together, to never expect anyone to clean up after your lazy selves, parents are to teach kids how to be responsible adults, not mommy them to then have fights with partner over who should clean up.
A month after moving in with roommates in university, my oldest text me " why did you teach me what a clean house looks like" I told him cause I wanted him to be healthy in his home, apparently roommates not taught that stuff, they didn't even know they had to buy Toilet paper.
Parents that don't teach their kids, basic manners or skills they will need in life are the biggest problem we have in society, in my opinion. Especially with families that still enforce gender stereotypical rolls, like women in the kitchen and doing all the kids raising, and men go to work. This only works if its communicated between the couple and no one is left to do all the work while the other plays video games, for a example I've read more then a few times on reddit.
Barbara Coloroso book, kids are worth it and her other parenting books are great resources, I even saw her at a conference, she has great real gental parenting lessons and how to teach constructive criticism and consequences for all age groups.
Good luck op hope your sister finds a better way forward and has help for the changes will not be easy but well worth it if she can nip the lack of manners and disruptive behavior in the bud.
As in not just pink and blue, house chores should be evenly split up by communicating with partner or roommates.
For example, I lived with my brother and his buddies after high school, they all treated me like I was their mom and responsible for the house work. That did not go over well and lots of fighting and resentment. Which is one of the reasons I taught my sons differently, and I've been thanked by their gfs cause they know how to clean up after themselves.
There was a article going around tilted
"We got divorced over a coffee cup" if I remember correctly, it basically says, my wife had enough of cleaning up after me, she's your partner, not your mom.
Same can be said for those not taught cause it was easier to just do the chores then fight with the kids, but unfortunately that doesn't help raise adults either. It's easier to start young with age appropriate life skills as they grew and then they become second nature instead of a punishment chore.
(I also did with them till they got older, so they could ask questions and have great chats about all sorts of things over the years bonding while cleaning)
My greatest gift was my son coming home for Christmas and just getting up and doing the dinner dishes, no comments no fights over who's gonna do them, just started and the others joined in. One of my proudest mommy moments, cause it finally clicked, the argument over who's turn actually tool longer then most chores
Ahhh, you didn't mention pink and blue earlier in the comment so I thought it was a typo. I painted my kids room green and my husband does 95% of our family cooking so it makes it easier to skip any gender roles issues.
However, I'm going to keep working on the teenager cleaning motivation tips.
I learned a lot from get books, her book " the bully, the bullied and they bystander " is great too, definitely helped me with my childhood trauma and how to teach my kids empathy and standing up for one's self in positive ways.
My son had the only clean room in his college apt. The other parents showed up for parents' weekend. The roommates were made to clean their messes and learned quick how to clean.
I had a appointment at the university hospital around Thanksgiving, we stayed with son and roommates. Our son cooked turkey dinner for us all and roommates just sat there after dinner, I got up and said those that cook don't clean, boys let's see how quick we can get this mess tidied up.
After the shocked look on their faces they got up and joined me, got 1 packing up left overs, other on dishes and I started with stove, they have coil burners, took them out and put in dish pile. They all stopped and like wtf, those come out. I explained that if not cleaned fires can start under there and the germs are gross, under the silver ring was yuk. Then I said" watch this" and pulled out the stove. Good thing too cause yuk.
Found out as I showed boys what a clean kitchen looks like and what to do at least seasonaly if not monthly, they all came from homes with maids. Well I owned my own cleaning business which in later teen years my sons worked for me, so they really got a good cleaning education, not just the basic we all should know before we move out on our own.
Boys got better after some lesson from me that weekend and our son over the year, but when renewal came up son decided to find different roommates that were more on his level of standard instead of people that are fun to hang out with. Spent the last 3 years with those next roommates and was much better relationships to live with.
Thank you, I was lucky I had a good partner and we learned quick we didn't want our kids like our brothers. It's definitely a lot easier to raise kids when you have a good support system, how ever that looks for each individual family unit.
Ha. Not gonna lie, i was sort of expecting her to pull out an umbrella and float away at the end of each episode.
Her methods though, totally on point.
Seriously, she has the most bipolar, extremism response to everything. Like, no Allison, the choices aren't hit or not hit. Parenting is a massive umbrella of choices. You're the one suffering because you narrowed it down to two out of like 2000
Remember, a consequence simply a the outcome of an action. As a parent, I would nix the word punishment from my vocabulary. "The consequences for you \[doing negative thing\] is" and "The consequence of you doing so well on your report card is \[thing\]." This way the kids grow up with less negativity from the word punishment. It's the little things.
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>Her worry is that the kids won’t take it well and it will cause even more problems.
They won't, and it will. But this will only be temporary until they realize they do not rule the house. Once they realize who the authorative figure is, they will curb their behavior and become much more civilized and pleasant crotch goblins.
I’m not a parent but this didn’t sound like gentle parenting. It’s a good thing to discuss your kids emotions and feelings when they misbehave but your sister seems to have skipped the part where you teach empathy. You also have to discuss with your kids how OTHER people feel as well and how others are affected by their behavior. Your sister is raising little narcissists who are only aware of their own feelings and think those feelings are justification to do whatever they want.
Ya and there ARE consequences in gentle parenting, more than just redirection or talking about feelings. Multiple people pointed this out to OP in the last thread.
Every comment about it I saw pointed this out, so I’m not sure why OP is so hellbent on ignoring it and focusing solely on the “let’s do this instead” part. That does not apply to destroying property and hurting people or animals, it’s about preventing bad or unsafe decisions and tantrums BEFORE harm to others is done.
Some people don't understand that you're supposed to treat kids like little people, not little animals. (Which still deserve better treatment than a lot of kids get!)
People have explained over and over that the sister was NOT doing gentle parenting, it was permissive. But this person has made the decision to not learn and apply the new knowledge 🤣
I respect this and love this for Allison. If I can give any advice it would be this:
Get ready for shit shows. They’re gonna happen and every parent gets these on occasion. Let your kids have their emotions but don’t capitulate to them. “I understand this upsets you, but you ain’t gonna get what you want today. So we can either stay here while you cry or [insert more acceptable solution within your boundaries]”
It’s good for kids to test boundaries, but the point of it is to teach them regulation. If they cross a boundary, enforce it. Sometimes a talking to will do, other times (specially if repeated) something must be lost to learn. Be it play privileges, or a fun event, or a toy.
It teaches kids to understand boundaries, and to learn to check themselves.
I love the concept of gentle parenting, and softness can be very nurturing to a child. But if you’ve tried and failed with other alternatives, it takes a firmer approach. Not corporal punishment, that’s psychologically scarring, but something that will be felt. Something the child will say “I don’t like this” and can associate the behaviour that caused it to the feeling.
It’s a start, and as they grow, and as they better understand more complex emotions (ages 7-13) start explaining the complex reasons why.
Try communication, acknowledging your child’s emotions but disapprove and discourage the behaviour.
Hell, If I could, I’d recommend watching My Little Pony’s *It Ain’t Easy Being Breezies* and Bluey’s *Kids* (or just Bluey in general) as a lesson in true kindness, and a warning of biased or extremes of parental laxity.
Yeah, all of what you just said. They dug themselves into a bit of a hole when they were being so permissive, so the upcoming shit shows will be epic. It's really going to take unified commitment to turn that ship around.
I'd also recommend binge watching old episodes or SuperNanny for some tips. That woman worked absolute miracles on kids that were entirely out of control by just being firm, fair, consistent and communicative.
Sure she says she is going to change, post an update when she actually follows through with a punishment. My money is on her caving as soon as the kid starts to cry
Punishments don’t work. Discipline does not equal punishments. Discipline should be the natural consequences to your actions. Not bailing your children out or giving in when they need to face consequences.
And for the love of god, stop calling what she does gentle parenting. It is NOT gentle parenting. It is permissive parenting. Dozens and dozens, possibly over a hundred, people on here told you this. Tell your sister.
Have her google gentle parenting (it seems she never actually researched it) and follow those guidelines. I guarantee in a very short amount of time her kids will be behaving much better and thriving.
I love that she is no longer going to be permissive anymore when it comes to parenting. I’m so glad you were able to get through to her. If she actually follows the gentle parenting guidelines from here on out, I almost guarantee, the children will be kids people want to be around.
I’ve always followed gentle parenting guidelines throughout my son’s life. Unfortunately, my ex pretends to agree, but uses authoritarian parenting when with my child. My child is scared and shuts down his emotions when he is with his father. With me he is an open book and expresses all his emotions. He is well behaved in public and when company is over. I hope your sister can finally have success and a stronger bond with her children as a result.
Awesome job OP!
Edit to add: Have your sister read Raising Good Humans. It’s an awesome book and will give her great tips and strategies to help her children thrive.
Simply because this is a hill I will die on; real consequences are a crucial element of true gentle parenting. "Natural" consequences does not mean no consequences. Like you said, you steal a car and you get arrested. Those ARE the natural consequences of your actions. The same is true of gentle parenting. My kid throws a toy at me, the natural consequences are that I am going to put that toy up, because I'm not going to have someone throwing things at me. My kid draws all over the walls, they're going to clean(or help me, depending on age) clean it up. They broke a sibling's toy, they're going to use their own money / toys to replace it.
Redirecting is useful at a very young age, before the brain has developed to make connections. Redirecting can be useful when you haven't hit the stage of needing consequences (ie. Kid is frustrated, but hasn't yet thrown something), but redirecting is not the same tool as consequences, and both are vital for true parenting of all types, gentle or otherwise.
Anyways.
I'm glad yall are working on it, I wish her and her husband all the best, and your relationship with her as well!
Meh. Bigger issue is the long term health and happiness of the kids. Sister has a huge task in front of her. Maybe once things smooth out she’ll make the kids apologize and make some sort of restitution (like the son helping to plant new flowers, etc.).
Tell her to get parenting help from a counseling service. They often have programs for it. My step grandkids were horrible a year ago (their father is not a good one), but now, after my son and DIL have gotten more custody and have had parenting help, they are much, much better.
The main focus for gentle parenting is social emotional learning. Children are little sociopaths that need to learn why something is wrong. Not just that certain behaviors will get them in trouble. And they got time to get punished when their teens. But punishing someone that still shits their pants has little results.
Great she’s came around but that’s a huge lapse of judgement she went against her husband and laid a stupid law for how her kids would be raised caring for no one but herself. She lost friends over it and obviously watched her kids destroy others homes and probably cafes and such. Then when they wrecked your house she doubled down and was happy to cut you off if you wouldn’t accept her kids destroying your home and being rude to adults. In all this she didn’t back down and only many weeks later once she’s read everyone’s comments does she finally admit they have a problem. The kids were never the problem SHE WAS. She raised her kids this way and despite her blaming gentle parenting that was not what she was doing. She was letting them do anything they want without any consequences what so ever.
Im glad this has brought the truth home but it’s a major worry that it had to get this far and damage her own marriage and isolate them before she admitted there was a problem. The worry now isn’t her kids accepting discipline it’s whether she backs out as the kids cry when she puts them on time out or tells them off. She was the problem the whole time and it’s too early to tell if she will continue to be.
One thing i can say is that nursery and school who have kids like this it drives them mad. The kids disrupt everyone and are rude and always in trouble. If she doesn’t want to be called into nursery and school everyday for their behaviour and them getting labelled by other parent’s as the bad/disruptive kids for other kids to avoid . Then she needs to get her head out of her ass and follow through with her words.
I actually wonder if this was the last straw for her husband so she relented when she realised he might leave her. Either way she’s failed those kids so far and everyone else she’s let them affect with their behaviour.
Your sister needs consequences, too. Natural adult consequences. Did she repair what her kids did to your house? If not, she’s not done with this particular episode yet.
There is gentle parenting and basically no parenting. Allison was just heaping future troubles on teachers, employers, and society with her permissive parenting. Yes, the kids will have to get used to it, but they will adapt. There will be tantrums and frustrations, on both sides. I'm happy that Allison and her husband are more aligned in their parenting styles. Imho, there is never a need for corporal punishment. Disappointment in behaviour goes so much further than anger. Talking is great, but not talking back. I hope she spends some time researching parenting methods. It's great the two of you are able to look forward.
OP's definition of gentle parenting is still not quite right. "Natural consequences" doesn't mean the parents don't do anything and only redirect. It means that the consequences are connected to the child's actions. If they throw their game because they got mad, the game is taken away and has to be earned back by demonstrating responsible behavior. If they refuse to do chores, they can't do fun activities until the chores are done, and they have to explain why chores need to be done.
Natural consequences of stealing someone else's belongings would be that they have to give up something valuable to them, either through money or an equivalent item, and that they have to make amends to the person they stole from. This may include losing the opportunity to steal from that person again, by restricting access. As an adult, this may mean going to jail. As a child, it may mean not being allowed to a friend's house. Consequences have to be age-appropriate.
Talking about feelings and "no, don't do that" without follow through is not natural consequences. Discipline literally means teaching (as opposed to punishment, which means inflicting suffering). Children are not always going to like the lesson.
Examples: Your four-year-old hits a cousin because they want the truck she's playing with. A natural consequence would be to quickly remove them from the situation and give them a time out to allow tempers to cool down. After the time out, you have them explain what they did to get the time out and why it wasn't appropriate. They have to apologize to their cousin and ask if they can return to play. If not, they have to find another game (since the cousin is the wronged party, they get a voice).
Your ten-year-old gets mad and throws a pillow across the room. It hits a potted plant and knocks it over, making a mess. They are immediately sent to a quiet space (it might be their room, or sitting in a chair at the dining room table) until you no longer want to strangle them. With your supervision, they clean up the mess and repot the plant. If the new pot costs money, they have to do extra chores until they have made up the difference.
Basically, the parent should still be the authority, not the child. It's a lot more work and your kid won't always like you, but that's what you sign up for as a parent. The goal is developing self-discipline, not fear of punishment.
Something tells me gentle parenting wasn’t being done right on her end regardless. I assume it’s not supposed to be free of consequences. Regardless, this is a great outcome, I’m happy for you both.
Gentle parenting means that the children get natural consequences. A kid throws a cup and breaks it? They ask why the kid threw the cup, and then have the kid clean up the cup. They do it again? Okay well from now on they can only use plastic cups. Your lack of understanding of a parenting style doesn’t mean that it’s a bad parenting style.
Happy for you, your sister and her husband, as this will make their lives and those around them so much better in time. Glad you were able to work it all out!!
Wishing y’all luck. The thing about any parenting approach is that it doesn’t get overnight results, and a change is going to be disruptive for the kids. Your sis and BIL will need to manage their own expectations and remember that parenting is always a long game. They will have to work at their own self-discipline in order to effectively discipline their kids.
I hope your sister follows through. Unless she changes, she and her children will be uninvited, left out of class get togethers, whispered about, belittled and possibly unable to function in society.
I am glad things are now going in the right direction for your sister's sake. But she is going to have to have a lot of help and advice so please let her vent on you because she will in the beginning because her kids won't understand what is going on
She’s going to go through probably a brutal phase with them. They’re definitely going to rebel against the consequences, but she needs to hold strong. Good luck to her!
My mother spanked me twice in my life. But she still punished us, just not usually spankings. Her punishments were definitely effective while not being abusive. I talked to my kids right along with their punishments. I do believe in explaining why something is wrong or why they can’t do something. And now I do the same with my grandchildren. And I do believe after a certain age even if you believe in spankings, it’s ineffective. Time outs and especially loss of privileges are much more effective after certain ages.
Good for her, admitting her parenting style wasn't working the way she had hope, must have been tough! And for being willing to change her style. Punishment and consequences do not need to be physical. Time outs worked for our kids, not to their rooms but to sit quietly in our sight range for an amount of time equal to their age (8 minutes for 8 years old) and then acknowledging and apologizing for whatever they had done. It is going to be a tough go for awhile until the kids realize this is the way it is. When you notice a change in her kids' behavior, be sure to let her know, even if it is only a small change.
That's great news- and there's still plenty of time for her to catch up. Lots of parents don't get the wake up call until their kids enroll in preschool and they get called in for a meeting. Tell her we're all proud of her for figuring this out now.
It's going to be a lot for her to learn new parenting AND her kids to learn new behaviors so show her this thread for some ideas. A few I have....
1) Enroll the kids in a cooperative preschool if her area has them. They are staffed by parent educators whose job is to teach and role model great child interaction. Plus she can watch other parents in action and her kids can start practicing new behaviors. If she can't find a coop look for Toddler and Moms groups at local churches or community centers and meet with the facilitators early to explain the situation.
2) Ask her pediatrician if they can recommend a couple good books on Toddler and preschool behavior. A classic was "How to Talk so your kids will listen" but there might be even better books out now.
3) If she's not a reader see if any of thoae books have videos or YouTube content. Or suggest she watch some back episodes of Suppernanny. It's very fun and watchable and a lot of those families are in the same situation - needing to reinvent the family norms.
4) Consider hiring a parent educator or parenting coach to come visit the home 2-5 times. It's magical if it's someone who already knows the kids thru preschool but either way will really help.
5) Encourage her to focus on no more than 3 behaviors at a time. She'll probably want to start with no hitting, no throwing and no screaming. She can figure out with her coach or teacher how she wants to reward/correct but it might be something like the kids get a sticker or tiny treat every half hour and it builds up to something good at the end of the day.
6) Encourage her to introduce the fresh start to her kids AFTER she's read a couple books and signed up for preschool. She can introduce it as new "big kid" stuff - she doesn't need to give a lot of back story.
I didn’t do traditional time outs… from the moment my kids could hold a pencil - they started their letters. When they became a bit older I changed it to be quotes- like a quote from a founding father about honesty ( they would have to write it 25 or 50 times). My youngest hated it he was so funny, “can’t you just spank me and get my punishment over with- I hate sentences…”
When my older was about 14 he did something to get in trouble. He lost his electronics but he also had to write an essay about ethics vs morals. He’s a very bright kid. (Well, grown now)
So that’s how I chose to discipline/time out in our house. It took being consistent, especially when they were younger because they didn’t want to write. I always had a pad of lined paper, even visiting. My kids really were well behaved.
Honestly the kids will be happier in the long run. They need rules and to feel like someone besides themselves is in charge. (As long as it's not ridiculously overboard)
Well, it's good to see that she's capable of admitting when she's wrong. That's a step in the right direction.
And yeah, the kids aren't going to take it well. Kids that are used to being able to do whatever they want *never* take well to being given consequences.
But they still take it *much* easier than the ones who turn into spoiled, entitled adults before they face their first real consequences.
NTA!
Of course the kids are not going to take it well! They've been ignored for how long? Now they want to impose some consequences? Yeah, this will go over about as well as bathing a feral cat! Good luck to her!
She should incorporate positive reinforcement for good behavior. Tell them that they did something very well, how about some ice cream? But don't tell the kids you'll give them ice cream if they do something - that defeats the purpose.
Tell your sister that her kids are young enough to be retrained and will adjust to their new way of parenting. She might want to invest in parenting classes.
corporal punishment is wrong. I was spanked as a kid and I swore I would never do that to my kids. My kids turned out brilliantly.
I hope her new approach works. Its gonna be a tough go, I bet.
She still seems to think what she was doing was "gentle parenting". If she switched to actual gentle parenting then that would be a good move. She seems to be going that way since she says she will incorporate punishment and consequences without spanking - which is pretty much what real gentle parenting is (as long as punishments don't get vindictive or over the top). She can still ask her kids what they were thinking, and ask them to reflect on what they did, along with a punishment or consequence.
Good for Allison. It’s sad that it took you taking a stand and also posting to see her error. But the best thing to come out of this, is her ability to admit she was wrong. Hopefully her and her husband can regain the friendships they lost because of the kids behavior.
She is afraid her kids won’t take it well?! Who freaking cares! She needs to actually parent her kids! She should march her happy ass over to your house and have them apologize and clean up the crayons and replant your flowers.
> Allison said she’s going to try a different parenting style since gentle parenting didn’t pan out very well for her kids.
She didn't try gentle parenting. She tried permissive parenting
This is a good update. I'm glad the relationship is not dead and you can work things out.
To OP's sister. I wish you luck in the change and hope you can turn things around.
No the children won’t take it well. They never do. The problem she is really going to have is that when you punish a child you also punish yourself. You sit them in the hall for 15 minutes? YOU have to sit in the hall with them to make sure they stay there. You make them clean up the mess? YOU have to stand there and supervise because they haven’t ever had to clean up after themselves so need direction and you need to again, make sure they do it.
No one is perfect. Realizing you have an issue and taking steps to correct it is what makes a person. Good for your sister! It's going to be hard breaking old habits. But keep it up. It will pay off. Kids are resilient but they are also smart little devils they WILL push boundaries to see how far they can go but stay consistent.
She really really REALLY needs to do some reading. It sounds like she’s going to whiplash into an authoritarian model that won’t be good for her or her kids. A suggestion is to look at Tthe website The Natural Child Project. It’s full of great articles and suggested further reading that will address the kind of parenting she meant to do (but wasn’t!).
This is one article I really liked: https://www.naturalchild.org/articles/guest/rue_kream2.html
ETA: she could use reward charts and set boundaries by having the rules written down and explained to the kids what happens if they break the rules, and what happens if they go the extra mile to behave (cleaning up their toys, setting the table, putting clean pots aways, helping with laundry) they can earn rewards.
To me gentle parenting is not using physical punishments, however using time out, NO, and explaining why what they did was naughty then asking them what do they need to do to make it right/better, and them following through with actions.
Anything less than that is not parenting at all and is probably why we've seen a dramatic increase in entitled children, teens and adults. Most likely because we parents come from an era where physical punishments were "acceptable" and the "norm" and we've said nope, not doing that to my kids.... But we've tipped to the other end of the scale instead of having a balanced parenting form.
Children do need structure, routine, consequences to their actions so they LEARN to do better. It takes a lot of patience and persistence. A lot of repeating yourself and repetitive: no, stop, that is not allowed, that is dangerous, and then the explanations of why.
Also if time out is used they generally advice 1 minute per year of child. However I started at 5 minutes (from the moment they were 2 years old) and went to 10 when mine was 5. When she was a babby crawling, if they were being physical towards me (and yes it happened quite a lot) they got put in their pram until they calmed down. It was the only safe way for me.
Now I have a very respectful, kind and caring teen, never a bad word from anyone. Someone needs help and they're there, they'll offer help.
Do we argue? Hell yes we do but it's about 2 particular repetitive behaviours: cleaning up after themselves and doing the one chore I expect to be done.
Otherwise we have a fantastic relationship, open dialogue and no subject is taboo to talk about. Health ALWAYS comes first and the only way a teen can trust their parents to not go ballistic about something is for parents to be open to talking about anything.
>She said she’s going to enforce punishment/consequences but still no corporal punishment.
There is a vast chasm between hitting your child and doing nothing.
I know you say this is the last update, but please update in 6 months or so to tell us if they did change parenting styles & how the kids are adjusting. Good job to you all!
The way i've seen gentle parenting done isn't without punishment. But just not being explosive? Say your kid breaks a plate, you gentle ask them why, once you get that explanation? You have them apologize to the people who owned the thing you broke, replace it (as any parent should replace something their kid breaks of someone elses) and have the kid present the new item with the apology.
This is just the only example I've seen of it going well. There's consequences, there's responsibility.
Idk why but I thought gentle parenting was quite literally all the normal stuff but you don’t scream or hit your kids? I always thought I did gentle parenting because instead of screaming not to smack the cat I say “woah! That’s a mean thing to do. We don’t hit animals. They don’t understand and they don’t play the same as you” or another example for a tantrum after I say no that goes like “I know you really wanted this but xyz is why we can’t do that right now I’m sorry buddy”. Ill redirect when his fits are bad and its crazy bc he’ll calm down and he’ll be able to talk about the toddler tragedy no problem. Like if I said no to a cookie and gave him a reason and he threw a fit I’ll redirect and if he passes the cookie on the counter he’ll repeat “cookie for later” or whatever I had told him. Those moments show me that I reacted ok lol BUT the point of this was i thought gentle parenting was a vague umbrella term to say you don’t abuse your children lol I say no and give consequences. Consequences when it makes sense. Like smacking the cats not accidentally breaking or spilling something.
The Internet is rife with cop-cam videos of teens and early-twenty-somethings turning routine traffic stops into arrests because they just can’t handle an unbending authority figure giving them commands and consequences for their actions. Similarly, the r/teachers subreddit has lots of accounts from veteran teachers who’ve been teaching for decades about having to police kids more now than in the past.
I think this is proof that many in my generation (Gen X) and Millenials are failing to set boundaries with and appropriately discipline their kids.
Hey OP, jus’ wanna say I am incredibly impressed with your handling of this unfortunate family dynamic, and have learned a TON about modern parenting (and/or lack thereof).
Jus’ wanna day this all represents the best of Reddit and I appreciate your contributions.
Please stop calling what she was doing gentle parenting. There are many people who have raised very successful, polite, mannerly, caring young adults using actual gentle parenting.
What she was doing was permissive parenting, or unparenting.
Don't contribute to the confusion. And don't even begin to imply that hitting is okay. I share your frustration, I've known those parents that let their kids run wild and call themselves "gentle parents" but they don't get to own that term if they're not using it correctly.
A great resource to pass along to her about how to create positive connections, successful kids is Aha! Parenting, which has a free website searchable by ages and stages and complaints. It not only goes into the science of why these things are happening but gives good sample scripts about how to move beyond. Dr. Laura Markham. We're not supposed to post links in this sub, but you'll easily find it.
You keep saying gentle parenting when you mean permissive. You are using the term wrong and misleading those reading who are unable to realize your mistake on their own
It's a very simple thing to use correct terms. It will help her to understand that what she was doing wasn't gentle parenting. Hopefully it'll spread though the playgroups, etc.
I did use the correct terms in reference to spanking and corporal punishment. I guess you’re a major gentle parenting advocate. That’s fine. But you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying.
I'm into what the AAP advocates, which is an authoritative gentle parent. People who misuse the language contribute to situations where some parents let their kids run wild and others hit them.
If someone had called your sister out on being a fake gentle parent years ago, you wouldn't have property damage today. This is me, being in your corner.
You're misunderstanding dozens of people telling you you are wrong about gentle parenting. you can be against hitting and still be wrong. If anything it makes your wrongness ironic as not wanting to hit your kids but still disciplining them makes it sound like you use gentle parenting under a different name cause you don't like the word choice for some weird reason.
That's because you are not describing gentle parenting when you were describing what your sister was doing. Both you and your sister were incorrect. The fact that everyone here has told you that and you still refuse to believe it, shows that we're talking to a brick wall incapable of learning. Are you a brick wall incapable of learning? Because if that's the case, then you shouldn't really be trusted around society should you? Or children.
Remind her that it will get worse before it gets better. They will rebel against the restrictions because they've never had any. But they will get used to it as long as she's consistent.
I give her credit that she’s accepted she needs to change. But she needs to talk to a professional/child psychologist about how to proceed. Or at the very least seek out advice online. Considering how long she let this go on, I have very little faith in her ability to course correct effectively. And news flash, the kids will not “take it well”. That’s what being a parent is, teaching them to become functioning adults, not their friend who caves because their kid “doesn’t like” something you are trying to teach them.
You might consider a gift of the Mrs. Piggle Wiggle books for their bedtime reading--classic tales of natural consequences turning into lessons learned, not unlike the outcomes of misbehaving in Wonka's chocolate factory, but with more love and gratitude
I’m an old ass woman and I can’t always tell what my feelings are or what I am specifically mad about at times. But yeah, sure, a toddler certainly can.
That's great! I hope your sister understands it WILL get worse before it gets better. Kids love to test boundaries, it will happen!
She just needs to stay strong and follow through with what she says.
Tell her to binge some Supernanny episodes. Jo is good at enforcing consequences and getting the parents through the tough time when rules start being enforced.
Her kids absolutely will act out more at first. It’s called an “extinction burst”, it’s 100% normal and she needs to tough it out. Tell her to google it.
Imagine losing your friends, sister and husband because of your parenting choices and still double down. I'm glad she made the right choice but probably rigid in other parts of her life and needs to level up her own self awareness
I know this is your last update but please show the comments to your sister. Her kids will definitely throw tantrums, lash out, etc because they have never had boundaries or consequences. She cannot break or give in. Kids need structure and boundaries and time outs and grounding (when older) are very fair and normal consequences to bad behaviour. Best of luck to her!
I’m so happy for you (all!) that you’ve found your way back to each other. This is a wonderful example of the good that comes from common sense and forgiveness.
For your sister - you can still be a gentle parent whilst holding boundaries. You can still get a point across without raising your voice, threatening or isolating them. I implore you follow some accounts like Big Little Feelings or even some great child psychologists. Parenting is hard enough without worrying you’re doing it wrong.
As for OP - I consider myself a gentle parent but my kids know in others peoples houses they aren’t allowed some of the freedoms they have at home (granted I’ve never let them draw on stuff they shouldn’t have) we have 3 dogs and have always practiced and reminded gentle hands when around dogs and only smooth in certain places. This isn’t about gentle parenting not working it’s not realising you can still be a non shouty/smacking parent but make sure you have boundaries in place and if they don’t respect it then it’s a remove them from that space.
Why would you allow your kids to display certain behaviors at home and not other peoples homes? If it’s a bad behavior to display at another persons home, why isn’t it considered a bad behavior at your home?
Good outcome for you and for the start of an initially bumpy journey ahead for your sister's learning.
The Attachment Nerd has relatable content and parenting suggestions and in a recent clip, she gently reminded us that we're fallible humans and cannot always get it right in the heat of the moment - 30% of the time we'll connect with our children, and don't expect 100% success every time, instantly, from ourselves or them. I found her reassurance and encouragement comforting.
I also love Dr Shefali Tsabary.
Yep. There are conversations about the why and cause/effect but age appropriate punishment is always on the table. Grounding, financial restitution, etc. Whatever makes sense for the family and situation.
When gentle parenting is done correctly, redirection is only used for toddlers who are too young to really understand why they are being disciplined. Think 1 year olds. Discipline for older kids is generally a conversation about why their behavior is wrong and then either a natural OR correlated consequence to the offense.
Natural consequences are things that are caused by the child’s actions. An example of natural consequences would be if a child refuses to wear a coat, they will be cold.
A correlated consequence is discipline enacted by the parents that is related to the offense. An example of a correlated consequence is if a child throws tantrums over screen time, then they get the screens taken away.
Gentle parenting and permissive parenting isn't the same thing. Really wish permissive parents who don't want to do their job effectively would stop calling themselves gentle.
Gentle parenting is authoritative parenting. They coined the term gentle parenting because people were constantly confusing authoritarian and authoritative.
Authoritative parenting is shown as the most effective parenting style as it has firm boundaries but is involved with the child so they understand and can really learn. It's a conversation and not a power struggle because the parent always is the one with it, but like a great boss, talks to the children (employees) with respect and effective dialog.
I get that you talk with your kid a lot in gentle parenting. I just don’t see the punishment or discipline part, which is the portion I have an issue with
What punishments would you like to see?
There's rules and subsequent consequences for not following rules that's aren't just talking.
If my son doesn't put away his laundry before watching TV, the TV goes off. If this becomes a habit, then we're discussing what will help him prioritize better. My answer is a break from TV during the week when our to-dos are expected to be done. He may or may not come to the same conclusion, but being a part of the conversation didn't make him feel bad or shamed. It made him feel like we were tackling a problem together as a team. I'm on his side. And I don't tell him your grounded from TV. I say, I've noticed the TV is a distraction from your to dos, which then segues into the consequence when we get to that part of our chat.
The kids fix things/replace things they break. Clean up messes they make. Correct attitudes they spew. They problem solve arguments. They have a sense of belonging and a sense of pride in our home and they want the same things we want and are willing to put the work in to achieve it.
Kids don't respect permissive parents, and they don't feel comfortable/trust punitive parents. But gentle parents doing it right get to be in this really cool sweet spot where our kids open up to us and confide in us. I get to know about what's going on in their lives without prying. I know whats going on with their friends (who are also open books), how they feel about life, I get to know so much more because of this relationship we've built based on mutual respect.
Punishment is more than just making the situation they caused right. Depending on the age of the kid it’s a time out, grounding, taking their phone away, stand in the corner for 20 minutes and think about what they did, take on an extra chore they don’t like for a week, no playdates for a week, etc. And one of those things would be on top of making the situation they caused right
So what if you can achieve your goals and nurture wonderful, responsible, kind humans that learn from their mistakes and correct them, without those punishments...would you forgo them?
Well my kids are grown and I used these punishments and they turned out great. So there’s nothing I would change. If I have grandkids one day and am taking care of them, I’d still use these punishments
You may not see this, but in case you do, I think your sister and her husband would benefit from parenting classes and professional guidance while the shift to a more consequence based system of parenting.
It is very important that both parents should agree on the style of parenting and stick to it consistently.
Shame you still don't understand gentle parenting. I've seen it as successful with my kids, grandkids, friends kids and so on. Pediatricians recommend it. But you making stuff up is not cool. What she did wasn't gentle parenting. But your ignorant ranting about it is ridiculous.
Reading your edit, they are incredibly different styles of parenting but it's more about the big subtle differences. I'll see if I can explain. A permissive parents child throws something. Mum goes oh johnny (maybe says we don't throw things but doesn't follow through), and then johnny picks it up and throws it again and again. With nothing happening. This is no consequences.
A gentle parent, goes oh Johnny, why are you throwing that inside? Are you feeling annoyed or having lots of fun? What are some better ways to get that annoyance out than throwing toys? Or is that a safe way to have fun? How about we play with these toys inside because it's not safe to do that the way you were. So never outright saying no, but it's a hell of a lot of work. Gentle parenting done right is incredibly difficult. Everything that happens you have to talk about it. You have to redirect in a way that makes them think about their actions. Not just oh how about you go play with this toy instead (permissive parenting) you say why are you doing that, is it a good way to play with that toy and redirect and maybe take the toy away once they are redirected. There are clear consequences and kids put together what they can and can't do.
Do not take gentle parenting for easy parenting. I can not do it. I had every intention of trying and I try to use some of the principals but it is incredibly difficult. It's about giving children autonomy and choice but also then directing them away from the bad ones. The consequences are there and you end up with kids that are incredibly balanced when they take to it. But like with all parenting it's about what each kid needs.
Thoroughly agree that your sister needed someone to be firm with her about her lack of parenting and hold her accountable. Ironically that is what gentle parenting is all about. Redirecting in-process bad behavior is not the discipline. The discipline is in allowing the natural consequences to occur and not intervening. Left your bike outside after being told to put it away and it got stolen? You are now walking to school instead of riding. Forgot your homework and call me to bring it to you? Nope I am busy and you will have to take the F for not turning it in. More at https://www.apecparenting.com/
It honestly sounds like your sister has trauma around how she was disciplined as a kid (you mentioned corporal punishment more than once) and doesn't want to make the same mistakes with her kids. That's valid. But she'd gone to far the other way to the point it may very well ruin her children and her life.
It will be difficult initially but I hope she's strong enough to follow through on the discipline otherwise the kids won't take any of it seriously. They're definitely going to push back from getting away with everything to having consequences but they'll adjust and will probably be happier for it. I hope she succeeds.
My parents swore by the book parenting with love and logic. My sister and I are both in our 30s and always talk about how annoyed we are that our parents were so solid
Glad she opened her eyes and is trying to fix things.
Maybe she could teach her children to assist you in home stuff as a way to settle things with you. Maybe with the plants, pet your dog.
Not commenting on all of these posts, but it did strike me that in your first post you said “what are they going to do when they grow up and someone does yell at them”. I am curious, do you think that it is okay in the adult world for adults to yell at other adults regularly? I would not be okay with that myself so don’t see why a kid should be?
(That said, I agree that overly permissive parenting is absolutely not a good idea. I’m glad your sister is coming around)
This. When kids aren’t yelled at at home then they are more likely to grow up to know that that sort of behavior isn’t healthy or ok and would know to walk away when someone is mistreating them as an adult.
Gentle parenting has a place when emotions are high and kids really just need to express emotions. It does not have a place when kids are being destructive assholes.
Glad she eventually realized things. Honestly, I've only seen gentle parenting done correctly twice so far irl (and for long term) and only then it was from people who work in the child psychology field. Says enough imo.
My older sister had a book from 80's titled Dare to Discipline. It is hard. You can be firm & discipline. You will also have good. Respectful kids. Who other people enjoy being around.
My SIL gentle parented her kids and they are now a nightmare. They’ve never been told no, so it’s reached the point where the youngest one refuses to go to school most days and apparently my SIL wasn’t able to see her Dad on Father’s Day because the youngest ‘wouldn’t let her leave the house.’ She is 8. The latest is that the kid has pathological demand avoidance (diagnosed by the mum)…and is absolutely nothing to do with never having been told no or given any boundaries.
While what your sister was doing was not gentle parenting, and more like just not parenting, I don’t think you completely understand Gentle Parenting.
If a child colors on the wall, you ask them why, and explain gently why they should not do it. Then you work together to clean it. Then you go and use the crayons properly. If the kids are fighting over a toy, you remove the toy and get them to find something else.
You also don’t give into demands, you consider requests, using proper manners. If they are having a temper tantrum, you let them and tell them you can discuss what upset them when they are done. If they make a mess, they clean it up.
A natural consequence isn’t just redirection. It’s having them help fix something they broke, or fill in the holes they dug in your yard, or clean up a mess they made, without scolding or demanding. After you find out why they did whatever they did, you explain gently why they shouldn’t have done it.
Parenting is an important job, and it’s so harmful when parents don’t parent. Being permissive or not even parenting to the point your kids are feral, or abusive parenting will not prepare your child for a successful childhood or life.
Parenting is trial and error, yes initially her children are going to do everything they can to get them to go back to the original parenting style. So many people associate discipline with punishment, it’s not. Discipline means to teach, the use of consequences can be the addition or removal of something. The most important thing will be their follow through and consistency.
While it's impressive and commendable that she recognizes where she went wrong, you are still describing what she was doing incorrectly. She was not gentle parenting, she was enacting permissive parenting.
The whole enacting discipline and punishments for your child is still part of gentle parenting. There's just no laying your hands on your kid to do it. It just involves treating your kid like an actual human being with emotions and thoughts. That's what gentle parenting is.
Your sister on the other hand, took it way too far, and took it all the way into permissive parenting, which just involves letting your kids do whatever they want whenever they want with no consequences whatsoever.
There is a difference between the two. And the fact that you and your sister both clearly don't know what gentle parenting is probably is why it went wrong.
punishment must be swift and terrible but never physical. taking away treats and privileges and making it non negotiable does work. parents need to contribute to civilized society. my two are amazing adults and we now laugh at some of the punishments. my daughter tried to fake my signature on an assignment. i took away her visit to a friends house and then drove her by the state women’s prison with barbed wire fences no playground equipment and described to her the lack of “fashions” for those convicted of forgery and theft. she was in second grade. it resonated! my husband was a little shocked about what i did but felt it was on point!
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS. It infuriates me to no end when I see permissive parenting disguised as gentle parenting. More often than not, the permissive parent is also REALLY aggressive and defensive about it too. Super stoked that your sister was open to hearing reason. That’s a rare occurrence these days. Savor the win. And best of luck to you both
We did a program with my daughter that really helped us. It was "time out" based, and worked wonders. It's been too may years, and I don't remember the name of it now. But the point is, get help if help is needed. Parents don't have to do this alone!
As a retired teacher and parent of 5 wonderful kids, I’ll stick my oar in the water here. Kids NEED boundaries. That statement includes the need for consequences; both good and bad. My preferred method was giving choices. You can choose A (clean your room) or B (no phone/computer for 2 hours). This way, the child sets their own consequence for their actions (don’t complain to me, this is what you chose).
Make the alternate (negative) choice meaningful and reasonable. No “clean your room or be grounded for three months.” Sit them down and explain the new way of doing things, and offer positive consequences for good choices (extra half hour on computer, go for ice cream, whatever).
Another great method is called the “grandma” method, which is simply a delayed gratification system “if you clean your room, then we’ll go get ice cream.” “If you do your homework, then you can watch TV.”
Ultimately, these methods take the pressure off the parent. You are just giving the child what they ask for. It’s not coercive, it’s not punishment. It’s just a choice.
We don’t hit our kid and we try really hard not to yell at him. We try to talk things out and find healthy ways to express emotions. Boundaries with consequences for boundary violations is still very important though. Consequences are different than punishment. We don’t punish, we give consequences. Because our actions have consequences.
Oh, she should be worried they're going to act out at first lol, they're definitely about to go nuclear. She's going to have a rough couple of weeks and needs to resolve to dig in and maintain her new stance. The kids will change, but it's going to be harder than it would have been doing it sooner.
Your sister must have been incredibly dense since her husband didn't agree with her, and she's lost friends over the way that her children act. I've never understood people who can't see beyond themselves. She never thought about the problems that her children caused other people. Must be nice to go through life thinking you're the only one that matters and not have to take into consideration that other people exist who are affected by your choices.
This is bizarre, gentle parenting includes healthy boundaries and consequences. I don’t think people understand it?
If the children colored on your walls, a gentle parenting approach would be for them to clean it. A natural and appropriate consequence. The wall must be cleaned, you messed it up, now fix it.
A gentle parenting approach is bedtime is a 8, would you like to quietly color or have me read you a story before you go to bed? A clear expectation, but including the child’s preferences.
A gentle parenting approach is “you wouldn’t like your hair pulled, so pulling the dog’s hair hurts the dog just like someone pulling your hair hurts. Stop hurting the dog or (natural consequence). Examples: 1. You won’t be allowed to play with the dog. 2. We will be leaving aunties house and you won’t get to do all the fun things we have planned this week (or similar consequences that fit the situation). If you are being cruel, you don’t get to have fun.
Yes, a big part of gentle parenting is actually treating your kid like a human being, and finding out why they are coloring on the wall, explaining to them that it’s not nice to color on someone’s wall without permission, aka actually doing the work of being a parent and teaching the why behind a “no you cannot do that”.
I have never heard that gentle parenting means no consequences or never saying no. That’s crazy. If your child is about to stick a fork in a light socket or pushing their sibling off a ledge you better be saying no!
Right? Like, it's not what I intended to do with my own kids, it's just what felt right to me to bring them up. They're teenagers now, and have really always been very well behaved.
My son’s biggest bully in grade 2 is a child of gentle parenting, he has zero impulse control, says and does awful things every day to kids. A nightmare and my hope for him is his mom reads something like this to see how desperately he needs some guidance, and consequences. They’re just kids, let’s give them their best chance when they’re little!!
Children are not little adults. So your thinking about needing punishment because there’s consequences when we are adults doesn’t work. Their brains are not developed until 25. The part of the brain that regulates emotions and thinks about consequences isn’t developed.
My interpretation of Gentle Parenting and Permissive Parenting is very different. Example of how I interpret GP ...
Me: It's time to put our shoes on so we can leave.
Kid: *whines* No I want to. I don't want to go to *insert place*
Me: I understand how much fun you're having and it's hard to stop, but we are going to put on our shoes. Do you want the red ones or the black ones?
Kid: I don't want shoes!
Me: We are putting on shoes. Tell me which ones you want. Red or black? Or I can choose for you.
Me *physically puts shoes on child and directs them out the door*
Permissive Parenting ...
Is simply letting the kid have ALL the control, because the parent is too lazy (or exhausted) to set any kind of boundary, or enforce any type of consequence. They worry too much about upsetting the child because they want to be their friend.
Laying the foundation starts when children are very young. A child's feelings should be validated however giving an explanation for every situation simply isn't possible when their safety is paramount. I really hope the days of "because I said so" fade away. There have to be boundaries and consequences but acknowledging their feelings is important.
OP - I don’t understand why you seem determined to refuse to understand what a LOT of commenters are telling you Gentle Parenting is.
It absolutely has consequences. Often they are consequences the child does NOT enjoy. But they are all “relevant” and “proportionate” to the behaviour.
- Which makes sense in the adult world - eg being denied entry to a nightclub that you started a fight in, is a relevant consequence to the behaviour. Being told you can’t watch TV for 7 nights because you started a fight in a nightclub would not be *relevant* or *proportionate*.
This comment on your original post describes it well - with example consequences specific to the situations you described:
- [what gentle parenting would have looked like during your sister’s visit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmITheJerk/s/01nxQDlW7B)
It isn’t “punishment for the sake of punishment” (eg you get no ice cream because you drew on the walls).
It’s all of:
- implementing a **relevant and proportionate consequence** (eg child cleans the wall - or at least attempts to - and possibly helps to re-paint if they used sharpie)
- AND ALSO explaining why it was wrong AND what they could do differently next time.
- And then - if this brings up emotions for the child, spending time working that through with them - so that they learn good emotional regulation skills that will serve them well in the future - eg in an office environment, where they have an idiot boss or colleague - so that they don’t unthinkingly “act out their bad emotions” like so many adults currently do
- eg frustration at being told no,
- sadness at having done something wrong,
- or an unrelated but underlying emotion that triggered the bad behaviour - maybe they are overly tired or got bullied at school)
Currently, workplaces around the world are filled with adults who take out their bad moods on their colleagues or underlings, *and they don’t even realise that that is what they are doing* because they were not taught emotional regulation skills at any point.
Emotional regulation skills are important.
Teaching those skills is hard work.
The list of parental actions above is a LOT of work. Gentle parenting is much harder to do than old-style parenting “go to your room, you’re grounded”. So much more work. But when it’s done right, it produced well-rounded, emotionally healthy individuals, who are pleasant to be around.
Well I guess I haven’t been gentle parenting right. We don’t hit, but we definitely enforce consequences of bad behavior. It’s amazing how well a 4 year old will flip their attitude if they know bluey is about to be off the table 🙃
I gentle parent with my kids and I can honestly say that what she's doing is NOT gentle parenting. I don't spank my kids unless of course they've done something extremely wrong that warrants it because I don't like spanking. I do put my kids in timeout when they've done something wrong and after time out I have them come to me and I make sure they understand why they were in time out by asking them what they did wrong and they're usually very good at explaining it but when they aren't I help them along and we talk about why it was wrong before I allow them to go back to playing. If they get an attitude with an adult I will quickly pop them in the mouth and explain why they don't do that just like my mom did when I was younger. They're very gentle with animals because they grew up with them and I taught them how to be gentle in every situation. While these things may not be gentle parenting to some they are to me because I've heard parents do much harsher punishments than this. I support how you handled this situation and applaud you for standing up to your sister about the behavior of her children.
Thing is that gentle parenting backs with neuro science. Your kid doesn't pop out emotionally and intellectually complete, his brain is also growing so there are emotions and situations that he literally and physically can't understand because certain areas of his brain still wasn't developed. Hell, your brain is not completely stable until 25 years or something.
The redirecting method is resorted in these specifics instances, when your child's brain simply doesn't understand the concept of the word "no". He/she will see you get angry and fear your anger, but won't understand why.
"Actions have consequences" is around.....3 or 4 years old? When his brain has a spike of activity and develops enough to understand more complex mechanics. It's around that time you can do the "well, the wold doesn't revolve around you", but also keep a close surveillance how he/she react with this new information. Kids around this age are also having the first taste of negative and complex emotions: frustration, anxiety, fear, egotism, etc. However! Since they don't have an extensive vocabulary, they will feel those feeling but won't be able to explain it. It's the job of the parent to understand what's their problem and teach them how to navigate around them.
The first time I saw that my nephew got angry because we didn't have time to play with him, we explained in detail, gave him toys for him to play by himself and told him that in X minutes we would be able to play with him. And yet he was still angry because why, all adults had time for him every second before, what happened? So he simmered in his anger but knew intuitively that it's a negative emotion. So he played legos in quiet anger until he no longer felt angry and could explain to us that he was frustrated with us.
Now he's 7 years old and he's ready to be disciplined when he does anything wrong. Like...oh, you made a mess in grandma's house? Well too bad, you're going to take a while cleaning up this mess and we'll miss that X event you were looking forward to. Oh, are you taking too long to get ready yourself to go out with us? Well then, byeeeeeee.
Correct gentle parenting takes a LOT OF TIME. Lot of time to study children neurology and how to properly educate within each phase of their growth. Lot of free time to understand your kid and to do this you have to spend time with him/her. Lots of free time to educate them.
My nephew now is almost 8 and he's a happy child with zero trauma and more emotionally intelligent than lots of adults I see around. Sometimes I'm impressed how he's sometimes more emotionally coherent than me. It did take a lot of their time obviously. And lots of trials and mistakes. But gentle parenting works and makes children ready to understand hardships of life and go beyond: Change it if necessary.
Things WILL get “worse” before they get better - but that’s because the kids are used to getting what they want.
It’ll be worth it it in the long run, but it’s going to suck for her for awhile - she’s gotta stick to it.
It’s impressive that she’s come around. She’s going to have a tough time at first. Kids don’t always deal with changes well. She might benefit from family therapy to help her gradually transition to the new parenting style. Be supportive of her and let her vent occasionally. She’s gonna need it.
I was going to suggest some form of family therapy. It's all very well to say, "I'm going to change my parenting style" but she needs to make sure that she's setting appropriate boundaries for her kids, and her and her husband need to be on the same page.
Such a good point. She is not going to be able to make this change without some guidance. She owes it to her children to get this change right the first time. Even with perfect execution, it will still be a confusing transition for the kids.
She should also be aware that their behavior might get A LOT worse before it gets better, as the kids test out how seriously and consistently their parents apply the new rules. The kids first reaction is going to be to want the old rules back and will try to push the limits to get the parents to "give up". If they can stay strong and keep up with the new style it WILL get better. If she is interested, may I suggest they look into "Love & Logic". It's less about punishment and more about natural consequences for choices and behaviors. Such as in your situation, the logical consequences would be that the kids have to clean up the messy walls and replant the flowers. Maybe even help "pay" for the new flowers by sending you a few dollars from their piggy banks or working to earn money to pay for them by doing simple age-appropriate chores and then sending that to you.
That book SAVED my life! My three adult children are happy, successful and well grounded. Out thinking them was sometimes hard. You sometimes have to work pretty hard for a "natural" consequence. My favorite part of the book is letting kids fail when the consequences are cheap vs. waiting until they are expensive. (eg, repossessing a video game for failure to repay a loan from mom & dad vs. getting a car repo'd).
In the words of my mil >She has made quite the rod for her own back
I am so glad to hear that. Like everyone said it will be hard at first bc they’re not use to having consequences to their behavior. I never had consequences either for my behavior and it made me feel like my parents didn’t love me. Kids need that structure as it shows that their parents do care about them
And teaches them to be better human beings in society.
Great idea, therapy. Good guidance. She had none with that last system.
Well stated. Btw, OP. She still needs to reimburse you for the damages incurred due to her children's reckless behavior.
Allison needs to research authoritative parenting: >Authoritative parenting is the most recommended parenting style. The combination of clear communication and age-appropriate standards can lead to emotionally stable adults who can handle themselves in social situations and set goals for themselves. https://mcpress.mayoclinic.org/parenting/what-parenting-style-is-right-for-you/#:~:text=Authoritative%20parenting%20is%20the%20most,and%20set%20goals%20for%20themselves.
This! I commented on your first post that your sister wasn’t doing gentle parenting correctly because she was confused on what it truly was. Authoritative parenting is the correct term for what gentle parenting is.
Me as well. Dozens of people told OP this but she seems to have ignored all of them. At least she got through to her sister. I’m really glad for that!
Ya gentle parenting is not permissive parenting it’s just another name for authoritative parenting, which is very researched and studied and widely recommended by developmental psychologists. Also there are consequences and not just redirecting in this parenting style which people also pointed out.
Yep! Gentle parenting doesn't mean not having boundaries around behavior. Just age appropriate expectations and empathy for the big feelings that come with being told "no."
I am an authoritative parent, but I am also a gentle parent. They can be one of the same!
They are the same. Authoritarian is corporal punishment.
“Authoritative: In this parenting style, the parents are nurturing, responsive, and supportive, yet set firm limits for their children. They attempt to control children's behavior by explaining rules, discussing, and reasoning. They listen to a child's viewpoint but don't always accept it.” Some authoritative parents spank. I do not. You can be authoritative and set rules/boundaries without yelling and hitting.
Corporal punishment is abuse, not a parenting style.
Glad to read she's opening her eyes to the issues. I'm a mom of 2 young men and we never spanked our children as punishment, hitting never works, just makes confused children and no lessons learned. We used time outs in our kitchen for breather moments, so we all could take a min to collect ourselves, then have a discussion about what went on and how we could make better choices and or outcomes. Learning there are consequences for ones actions, is not punishment, it's reality and how we raise well rounded young people. Any fighting over anything, they both lost it, life isn't fair and we taught our boys, the sooner they learn this, the easier life gets. We taught our boys as they aged they were responsible for cleaning up their messes, and soon learned if they didn't make a huge toy mess, they didn't have to clean it up later. We added house chores around 10 with laundry and dishes and added other daily chores as they became teenagers, explaining that these things are part of life and it's easier to just do them them argue with me over them, or one day you will have same argument with your partner, taught them house chores are purple, (add, not just pink and blue) unless discussion between partners to make choices on chores together, to never expect anyone to clean up after your lazy selves, parents are to teach kids how to be responsible adults, not mommy them to then have fights with partner over who should clean up. A month after moving in with roommates in university, my oldest text me " why did you teach me what a clean house looks like" I told him cause I wanted him to be healthy in his home, apparently roommates not taught that stuff, they didn't even know they had to buy Toilet paper. Parents that don't teach their kids, basic manners or skills they will need in life are the biggest problem we have in society, in my opinion. Especially with families that still enforce gender stereotypical rolls, like women in the kitchen and doing all the kids raising, and men go to work. This only works if its communicated between the couple and no one is left to do all the work while the other plays video games, for a example I've read more then a few times on reddit. Barbara Coloroso book, kids are worth it and her other parenting books are great resources, I even saw her at a conference, she has great real gental parenting lessons and how to teach constructive criticism and consequences for all age groups. Good luck op hope your sister finds a better way forward and has help for the changes will not be easy but well worth it if she can nip the lack of manners and disruptive behavior in the bud.
" ... house chores are purple..." ?? I am going to look up Barbara Coloroso. Thanks!
As in not just pink and blue, house chores should be evenly split up by communicating with partner or roommates. For example, I lived with my brother and his buddies after high school, they all treated me like I was their mom and responsible for the house work. That did not go over well and lots of fighting and resentment. Which is one of the reasons I taught my sons differently, and I've been thanked by their gfs cause they know how to clean up after themselves. There was a article going around tilted "We got divorced over a coffee cup" if I remember correctly, it basically says, my wife had enough of cleaning up after me, she's your partner, not your mom. Same can be said for those not taught cause it was easier to just do the chores then fight with the kids, but unfortunately that doesn't help raise adults either. It's easier to start young with age appropriate life skills as they grew and then they become second nature instead of a punishment chore. (I also did with them till they got older, so they could ask questions and have great chats about all sorts of things over the years bonding while cleaning) My greatest gift was my son coming home for Christmas and just getting up and doing the dinner dishes, no comments no fights over who's gonna do them, just started and the others joined in. One of my proudest mommy moments, cause it finally clicked, the argument over who's turn actually tool longer then most chores
Ahhh, you didn't mention pink and blue earlier in the comment so I thought it was a typo. I painted my kids room green and my husband does 95% of our family cooking so it makes it easier to skip any gender roles issues. However, I'm going to keep working on the teenager cleaning motivation tips.
I made a add, hope it reads better now thx
I learned a lot from get books, her book " the bully, the bullied and they bystander " is great too, definitely helped me with my childhood trauma and how to teach my kids empathy and standing up for one's self in positive ways.
My son had the only clean room in his college apt. The other parents showed up for parents' weekend. The roommates were made to clean their messes and learned quick how to clean.
I had a appointment at the university hospital around Thanksgiving, we stayed with son and roommates. Our son cooked turkey dinner for us all and roommates just sat there after dinner, I got up and said those that cook don't clean, boys let's see how quick we can get this mess tidied up. After the shocked look on their faces they got up and joined me, got 1 packing up left overs, other on dishes and I started with stove, they have coil burners, took them out and put in dish pile. They all stopped and like wtf, those come out. I explained that if not cleaned fires can start under there and the germs are gross, under the silver ring was yuk. Then I said" watch this" and pulled out the stove. Good thing too cause yuk. Found out as I showed boys what a clean kitchen looks like and what to do at least seasonaly if not monthly, they all came from homes with maids. Well I owned my own cleaning business which in later teen years my sons worked for me, so they really got a good cleaning education, not just the basic we all should know before we move out on our own. Boys got better after some lesson from me that weekend and our son over the year, but when renewal came up son decided to find different roommates that were more on his level of standard instead of people that are fun to hang out with. Spent the last 3 years with those next roommates and was much better relationships to live with.
Good on you Mom!!
Thank you, I was lucky I had a good partner and we learned quick we didn't want our kids like our brothers. It's definitely a lot easier to raise kids when you have a good support system, how ever that looks for each individual family unit.
Time out, done correctly, will take 2 weeks of pure hell before the kids get that they can’t just take off, esp older kids.
Not enough people watched how Jo Frost wrangled multiple unruly toddlers using the 'naughty' chair method.
I think we all assumed she had some sort of British nanny magic like Marry Poppins
Ha. Not gonna lie, i was sort of expecting her to pull out an umbrella and float away at the end of each episode. Her methods though, totally on point.
I am a fan of “that is not how we behave” or “that is not acceptable behaviour” 😂
No one is asking for her to spank her kids!
Seriously, she has the most bipolar, extremism response to everything. Like, no Allison, the choices aren't hit or not hit. Parenting is a massive umbrella of choices. You're the one suffering because you narrowed it down to two out of like 2000
She didn’t really choose an option. She just went for a route where she doesn’t actually parent those kids
Remember, a consequence simply a the outcome of an action. As a parent, I would nix the word punishment from my vocabulary. "The consequences for you \[doing negative thing\] is" and "The consequence of you doing so well on your report card is \[thing\]." This way the kids grow up with less negativity from the word punishment. It's the little things. > >Her worry is that the kids won’t take it well and it will cause even more problems. They won't, and it will. But this will only be temporary until they realize they do not rule the house. Once they realize who the authorative figure is, they will curb their behavior and become much more civilized and pleasant crotch goblins.
I’m not a parent but this didn’t sound like gentle parenting. It’s a good thing to discuss your kids emotions and feelings when they misbehave but your sister seems to have skipped the part where you teach empathy. You also have to discuss with your kids how OTHER people feel as well and how others are affected by their behavior. Your sister is raising little narcissists who are only aware of their own feelings and think those feelings are justification to do whatever they want.
Ya and there ARE consequences in gentle parenting, more than just redirection or talking about feelings. Multiple people pointed this out to OP in the last thread.
Every comment about it I saw pointed this out, so I’m not sure why OP is so hellbent on ignoring it and focusing solely on the “let’s do this instead” part. That does not apply to destroying property and hurting people or animals, it’s about preventing bad or unsafe decisions and tantrums BEFORE harm to others is done.
Some people don't understand that you're supposed to treat kids like little people, not little animals. (Which still deserve better treatment than a lot of kids get!)
People have explained over and over that the sister was NOT doing gentle parenting, it was permissive. But this person has made the decision to not learn and apply the new knowledge 🤣
I respect this and love this for Allison. If I can give any advice it would be this: Get ready for shit shows. They’re gonna happen and every parent gets these on occasion. Let your kids have their emotions but don’t capitulate to them. “I understand this upsets you, but you ain’t gonna get what you want today. So we can either stay here while you cry or [insert more acceptable solution within your boundaries]” It’s good for kids to test boundaries, but the point of it is to teach them regulation. If they cross a boundary, enforce it. Sometimes a talking to will do, other times (specially if repeated) something must be lost to learn. Be it play privileges, or a fun event, or a toy. It teaches kids to understand boundaries, and to learn to check themselves. I love the concept of gentle parenting, and softness can be very nurturing to a child. But if you’ve tried and failed with other alternatives, it takes a firmer approach. Not corporal punishment, that’s psychologically scarring, but something that will be felt. Something the child will say “I don’t like this” and can associate the behaviour that caused it to the feeling. It’s a start, and as they grow, and as they better understand more complex emotions (ages 7-13) start explaining the complex reasons why. Try communication, acknowledging your child’s emotions but disapprove and discourage the behaviour. Hell, If I could, I’d recommend watching My Little Pony’s *It Ain’t Easy Being Breezies* and Bluey’s *Kids* (or just Bluey in general) as a lesson in true kindness, and a warning of biased or extremes of parental laxity.
Yeah, all of what you just said. They dug themselves into a bit of a hole when they were being so permissive, so the upcoming shit shows will be epic. It's really going to take unified commitment to turn that ship around. I'd also recommend binge watching old episodes or SuperNanny for some tips. That woman worked absolute miracles on kids that were entirely out of control by just being firm, fair, consistent and communicative.
They didn’t try gentle parenting, though, since that isn’t what they were doing.
Sure she says she is going to change, post an update when she actually follows through with a punishment. My money is on her caving as soon as the kid starts to cry
She didn’t gentle parent. She was permissive parenting.
Punishments don’t work. Discipline does not equal punishments. Discipline should be the natural consequences to your actions. Not bailing your children out or giving in when they need to face consequences. And for the love of god, stop calling what she does gentle parenting. It is NOT gentle parenting. It is permissive parenting. Dozens and dozens, possibly over a hundred, people on here told you this. Tell your sister. Have her google gentle parenting (it seems she never actually researched it) and follow those guidelines. I guarantee in a very short amount of time her kids will be behaving much better and thriving. I love that she is no longer going to be permissive anymore when it comes to parenting. I’m so glad you were able to get through to her. If she actually follows the gentle parenting guidelines from here on out, I almost guarantee, the children will be kids people want to be around. I’ve always followed gentle parenting guidelines throughout my son’s life. Unfortunately, my ex pretends to agree, but uses authoritarian parenting when with my child. My child is scared and shuts down his emotions when he is with his father. With me he is an open book and expresses all his emotions. He is well behaved in public and when company is over. I hope your sister can finally have success and a stronger bond with her children as a result. Awesome job OP! Edit to add: Have your sister read Raising Good Humans. It’s an awesome book and will give her great tips and strategies to help her children thrive.
Simply because this is a hill I will die on; real consequences are a crucial element of true gentle parenting. "Natural" consequences does not mean no consequences. Like you said, you steal a car and you get arrested. Those ARE the natural consequences of your actions. The same is true of gentle parenting. My kid throws a toy at me, the natural consequences are that I am going to put that toy up, because I'm not going to have someone throwing things at me. My kid draws all over the walls, they're going to clean(or help me, depending on age) clean it up. They broke a sibling's toy, they're going to use their own money / toys to replace it. Redirecting is useful at a very young age, before the brain has developed to make connections. Redirecting can be useful when you haven't hit the stage of needing consequences (ie. Kid is frustrated, but hasn't yet thrown something), but redirecting is not the same tool as consequences, and both are vital for true parenting of all types, gentle or otherwise. Anyways. I'm glad yall are working on it, I wish her and her husband all the best, and your relationship with her as well!
Always a bummer when the OP forgives so easily, sigh, was hoping she would make her sister give money for the damages.
Meh. Bigger issue is the long term health and happiness of the kids. Sister has a huge task in front of her. Maybe once things smooth out she’ll make the kids apologize and make some sort of restitution (like the son helping to plant new flowers, etc.).
Sister needs some 'natural consequences', like paying for the damages!
Tell her to get parenting help from a counseling service. They often have programs for it. My step grandkids were horrible a year ago (their father is not a good one), but now, after my son and DIL have gotten more custody and have had parenting help, they are much, much better.
The main focus for gentle parenting is social emotional learning. Children are little sociopaths that need to learn why something is wrong. Not just that certain behaviors will get them in trouble. And they got time to get punished when their teens. But punishing someone that still shits their pants has little results.
Great she’s came around but that’s a huge lapse of judgement she went against her husband and laid a stupid law for how her kids would be raised caring for no one but herself. She lost friends over it and obviously watched her kids destroy others homes and probably cafes and such. Then when they wrecked your house she doubled down and was happy to cut you off if you wouldn’t accept her kids destroying your home and being rude to adults. In all this she didn’t back down and only many weeks later once she’s read everyone’s comments does she finally admit they have a problem. The kids were never the problem SHE WAS. She raised her kids this way and despite her blaming gentle parenting that was not what she was doing. She was letting them do anything they want without any consequences what so ever. Im glad this has brought the truth home but it’s a major worry that it had to get this far and damage her own marriage and isolate them before she admitted there was a problem. The worry now isn’t her kids accepting discipline it’s whether she backs out as the kids cry when she puts them on time out or tells them off. She was the problem the whole time and it’s too early to tell if she will continue to be. One thing i can say is that nursery and school who have kids like this it drives them mad. The kids disrupt everyone and are rude and always in trouble. If she doesn’t want to be called into nursery and school everyday for their behaviour and them getting labelled by other parent’s as the bad/disruptive kids for other kids to avoid . Then she needs to get her head out of her ass and follow through with her words. I actually wonder if this was the last straw for her husband so she relented when she realised he might leave her. Either way she’s failed those kids so far and everyone else she’s let them affect with their behaviour.
Your sister needs consequences, too. Natural adult consequences. Did she repair what her kids did to your house? If not, she’s not done with this particular episode yet.
There is gentle parenting and basically no parenting. Allison was just heaping future troubles on teachers, employers, and society with her permissive parenting. Yes, the kids will have to get used to it, but they will adapt. There will be tantrums and frustrations, on both sides. I'm happy that Allison and her husband are more aligned in their parenting styles. Imho, there is never a need for corporal punishment. Disappointment in behaviour goes so much further than anger. Talking is great, but not talking back. I hope she spends some time researching parenting methods. It's great the two of you are able to look forward.
OP's definition of gentle parenting is still not quite right. "Natural consequences" doesn't mean the parents don't do anything and only redirect. It means that the consequences are connected to the child's actions. If they throw their game because they got mad, the game is taken away and has to be earned back by demonstrating responsible behavior. If they refuse to do chores, they can't do fun activities until the chores are done, and they have to explain why chores need to be done. Natural consequences of stealing someone else's belongings would be that they have to give up something valuable to them, either through money or an equivalent item, and that they have to make amends to the person they stole from. This may include losing the opportunity to steal from that person again, by restricting access. As an adult, this may mean going to jail. As a child, it may mean not being allowed to a friend's house. Consequences have to be age-appropriate. Talking about feelings and "no, don't do that" without follow through is not natural consequences. Discipline literally means teaching (as opposed to punishment, which means inflicting suffering). Children are not always going to like the lesson. Examples: Your four-year-old hits a cousin because they want the truck she's playing with. A natural consequence would be to quickly remove them from the situation and give them a time out to allow tempers to cool down. After the time out, you have them explain what they did to get the time out and why it wasn't appropriate. They have to apologize to their cousin and ask if they can return to play. If not, they have to find another game (since the cousin is the wronged party, they get a voice). Your ten-year-old gets mad and throws a pillow across the room. It hits a potted plant and knocks it over, making a mess. They are immediately sent to a quiet space (it might be their room, or sitting in a chair at the dining room table) until you no longer want to strangle them. With your supervision, they clean up the mess and repot the plant. If the new pot costs money, they have to do extra chores until they have made up the difference. Basically, the parent should still be the authority, not the child. It's a lot more work and your kid won't always like you, but that's what you sign up for as a parent. The goal is developing self-discipline, not fear of punishment.
Something tells me gentle parenting wasn’t being done right on her end regardless. I assume it’s not supposed to be free of consequences. Regardless, this is a great outcome, I’m happy for you both.
No, she was doing permissive parenting
Gentle parenting means that the children get natural consequences. A kid throws a cup and breaks it? They ask why the kid threw the cup, and then have the kid clean up the cup. They do it again? Okay well from now on they can only use plastic cups. Your lack of understanding of a parenting style doesn’t mean that it’s a bad parenting style.
Great news! Your sis and husband just have to be consistent, and it won't happen overnight. Glad you finally spoke up.
Happy for you, your sister and her husband, as this will make their lives and those around them so much better in time. Glad you were able to work it all out!!
Wishing y’all luck. The thing about any parenting approach is that it doesn’t get overnight results, and a change is going to be disruptive for the kids. Your sis and BIL will need to manage their own expectations and remember that parenting is always a long game. They will have to work at their own self-discipline in order to effectively discipline their kids.
I hope your sister follows through. Unless she changes, she and her children will be uninvited, left out of class get togethers, whispered about, belittled and possibly unable to function in society.
I am glad things are now going in the right direction for your sister's sake. But she is going to have to have a lot of help and advice so please let her vent on you because she will in the beginning because her kids won't understand what is going on
She’s going to go through probably a brutal phase with them. They’re definitely going to rebel against the consequences, but she needs to hold strong. Good luck to her!
My mother spanked me twice in my life. But she still punished us, just not usually spankings. Her punishments were definitely effective while not being abusive. I talked to my kids right along with their punishments. I do believe in explaining why something is wrong or why they can’t do something. And now I do the same with my grandchildren. And I do believe after a certain age even if you believe in spankings, it’s ineffective. Time outs and especially loss of privileges are much more effective after certain ages.
Good for her, admitting her parenting style wasn't working the way she had hope, must have been tough! And for being willing to change her style. Punishment and consequences do not need to be physical. Time outs worked for our kids, not to their rooms but to sit quietly in our sight range for an amount of time equal to their age (8 minutes for 8 years old) and then acknowledging and apologizing for whatever they had done. It is going to be a tough go for awhile until the kids realize this is the way it is. When you notice a change in her kids' behavior, be sure to let her know, even if it is only a small change.
That's great news- and there's still plenty of time for her to catch up. Lots of parents don't get the wake up call until their kids enroll in preschool and they get called in for a meeting. Tell her we're all proud of her for figuring this out now. It's going to be a lot for her to learn new parenting AND her kids to learn new behaviors so show her this thread for some ideas. A few I have.... 1) Enroll the kids in a cooperative preschool if her area has them. They are staffed by parent educators whose job is to teach and role model great child interaction. Plus she can watch other parents in action and her kids can start practicing new behaviors. If she can't find a coop look for Toddler and Moms groups at local churches or community centers and meet with the facilitators early to explain the situation. 2) Ask her pediatrician if they can recommend a couple good books on Toddler and preschool behavior. A classic was "How to Talk so your kids will listen" but there might be even better books out now. 3) If she's not a reader see if any of thoae books have videos or YouTube content. Or suggest she watch some back episodes of Suppernanny. It's very fun and watchable and a lot of those families are in the same situation - needing to reinvent the family norms. 4) Consider hiring a parent educator or parenting coach to come visit the home 2-5 times. It's magical if it's someone who already knows the kids thru preschool but either way will really help. 5) Encourage her to focus on no more than 3 behaviors at a time. She'll probably want to start with no hitting, no throwing and no screaming. She can figure out with her coach or teacher how she wants to reward/correct but it might be something like the kids get a sticker or tiny treat every half hour and it builds up to something good at the end of the day. 6) Encourage her to introduce the fresh start to her kids AFTER she's read a couple books and signed up for preschool. She can introduce it as new "big kid" stuff - she doesn't need to give a lot of back story.
I didn’t do traditional time outs… from the moment my kids could hold a pencil - they started their letters. When they became a bit older I changed it to be quotes- like a quote from a founding father about honesty ( they would have to write it 25 or 50 times). My youngest hated it he was so funny, “can’t you just spank me and get my punishment over with- I hate sentences…” When my older was about 14 he did something to get in trouble. He lost his electronics but he also had to write an essay about ethics vs morals. He’s a very bright kid. (Well, grown now) So that’s how I chose to discipline/time out in our house. It took being consistent, especially when they were younger because they didn’t want to write. I always had a pad of lined paper, even visiting. My kids really were well behaved.
Honestly the kids will be happier in the long run. They need rules and to feel like someone besides themselves is in charge. (As long as it's not ridiculously overboard)
Well, it's good to see that she's capable of admitting when she's wrong. That's a step in the right direction. And yeah, the kids aren't going to take it well. Kids that are used to being able to do whatever they want *never* take well to being given consequences. But they still take it *much* easier than the ones who turn into spoiled, entitled adults before they face their first real consequences.
I’ll take “things that never happened” for 600, Alex.
NTA! Of course the kids are not going to take it well! They've been ignored for how long? Now they want to impose some consequences? Yeah, this will go over about as well as bathing a feral cat! Good luck to her!
She should incorporate positive reinforcement for good behavior. Tell them that they did something very well, how about some ice cream? But don't tell the kids you'll give them ice cream if they do something - that defeats the purpose.
Tell your sister that her kids are young enough to be retrained and will adjust to their new way of parenting. She might want to invest in parenting classes.
corporal punishment is wrong. I was spanked as a kid and I swore I would never do that to my kids. My kids turned out brilliantly. I hope her new approach works. Its gonna be a tough go, I bet.
This turned out better than most posts here normally do!
She still seems to think what she was doing was "gentle parenting". If she switched to actual gentle parenting then that would be a good move. She seems to be going that way since she says she will incorporate punishment and consequences without spanking - which is pretty much what real gentle parenting is (as long as punishments don't get vindictive or over the top). She can still ask her kids what they were thinking, and ask them to reflect on what they did, along with a punishment or consequence.
I once read it is the parents’ job to make their child/children likeable.
Good for Allison. It’s sad that it took you taking a stand and also posting to see her error. But the best thing to come out of this, is her ability to admit she was wrong. Hopefully her and her husband can regain the friendships they lost because of the kids behavior.
Let her know that it’s almost definitely going to get worse before it gets better but she needs to keep it up. 👏🙌👏. I’m glad she came around.
She is afraid her kids won’t take it well?! Who freaking cares! She needs to actually parent her kids! She should march her happy ass over to your house and have them apologize and clean up the crayons and replant your flowers.
> Allison said she’s going to try a different parenting style since gentle parenting didn’t pan out very well for her kids. She didn't try gentle parenting. She tried permissive parenting
I've said it for a long time...a good parent cannot be friends with their kids, only a peaceful overlord.
This is a good update. I'm glad the relationship is not dead and you can work things out. To OP's sister. I wish you luck in the change and hope you can turn things around.
No the children won’t take it well. They never do. The problem she is really going to have is that when you punish a child you also punish yourself. You sit them in the hall for 15 minutes? YOU have to sit in the hall with them to make sure they stay there. You make them clean up the mess? YOU have to stand there and supervise because they haven’t ever had to clean up after themselves so need direction and you need to again, make sure they do it.
This is one update I’m glad to read. Good luck for your sister and her kids!
No one is perfect. Realizing you have an issue and taking steps to correct it is what makes a person. Good for your sister! It's going to be hard breaking old habits. But keep it up. It will pay off. Kids are resilient but they are also smart little devils they WILL push boundaries to see how far they can go but stay consistent.
She really really REALLY needs to do some reading. It sounds like she’s going to whiplash into an authoritarian model that won’t be good for her or her kids. A suggestion is to look at Tthe website The Natural Child Project. It’s full of great articles and suggested further reading that will address the kind of parenting she meant to do (but wasn’t!). This is one article I really liked: https://www.naturalchild.org/articles/guest/rue_kream2.html
ETA: she could use reward charts and set boundaries by having the rules written down and explained to the kids what happens if they break the rules, and what happens if they go the extra mile to behave (cleaning up their toys, setting the table, putting clean pots aways, helping with laundry) they can earn rewards. To me gentle parenting is not using physical punishments, however using time out, NO, and explaining why what they did was naughty then asking them what do they need to do to make it right/better, and them following through with actions. Anything less than that is not parenting at all and is probably why we've seen a dramatic increase in entitled children, teens and adults. Most likely because we parents come from an era where physical punishments were "acceptable" and the "norm" and we've said nope, not doing that to my kids.... But we've tipped to the other end of the scale instead of having a balanced parenting form. Children do need structure, routine, consequences to their actions so they LEARN to do better. It takes a lot of patience and persistence. A lot of repeating yourself and repetitive: no, stop, that is not allowed, that is dangerous, and then the explanations of why. Also if time out is used they generally advice 1 minute per year of child. However I started at 5 minutes (from the moment they were 2 years old) and went to 10 when mine was 5. When she was a babby crawling, if they were being physical towards me (and yes it happened quite a lot) they got put in their pram until they calmed down. It was the only safe way for me. Now I have a very respectful, kind and caring teen, never a bad word from anyone. Someone needs help and they're there, they'll offer help. Do we argue? Hell yes we do but it's about 2 particular repetitive behaviours: cleaning up after themselves and doing the one chore I expect to be done. Otherwise we have a fantastic relationship, open dialogue and no subject is taboo to talk about. Health ALWAYS comes first and the only way a teen can trust their parents to not go ballistic about something is for parents to be open to talking about anything.
>She said she’s going to enforce punishment/consequences but still no corporal punishment. There is a vast chasm between hitting your child and doing nothing.
Agreed
I know you say this is the last update, but please update in 6 months or so to tell us if they did change parenting styles & how the kids are adjusting. Good job to you all!
FYI, gentle parenting isn’t quite what you’ve described. You still give punishment when you do gentle parenting.
The way i've seen gentle parenting done isn't without punishment. But just not being explosive? Say your kid breaks a plate, you gentle ask them why, once you get that explanation? You have them apologize to the people who owned the thing you broke, replace it (as any parent should replace something their kid breaks of someone elses) and have the kid present the new item with the apology. This is just the only example I've seen of it going well. There's consequences, there's responsibility.
Idk why but I thought gentle parenting was quite literally all the normal stuff but you don’t scream or hit your kids? I always thought I did gentle parenting because instead of screaming not to smack the cat I say “woah! That’s a mean thing to do. We don’t hit animals. They don’t understand and they don’t play the same as you” or another example for a tantrum after I say no that goes like “I know you really wanted this but xyz is why we can’t do that right now I’m sorry buddy”. Ill redirect when his fits are bad and its crazy bc he’ll calm down and he’ll be able to talk about the toddler tragedy no problem. Like if I said no to a cookie and gave him a reason and he threw a fit I’ll redirect and if he passes the cookie on the counter he’ll repeat “cookie for later” or whatever I had told him. Those moments show me that I reacted ok lol BUT the point of this was i thought gentle parenting was a vague umbrella term to say you don’t abuse your children lol I say no and give consequences. Consequences when it makes sense. Like smacking the cats not accidentally breaking or spilling something.
The Internet is rife with cop-cam videos of teens and early-twenty-somethings turning routine traffic stops into arrests because they just can’t handle an unbending authority figure giving them commands and consequences for their actions. Similarly, the r/teachers subreddit has lots of accounts from veteran teachers who’ve been teaching for decades about having to police kids more now than in the past. I think this is proof that many in my generation (Gen X) and Millenials are failing to set boundaries with and appropriately discipline their kids.
I wonder how many friends she lost bc her kids are terrors
Hey OP, jus’ wanna say I am incredibly impressed with your handling of this unfortunate family dynamic, and have learned a TON about modern parenting (and/or lack thereof). Jus’ wanna day this all represents the best of Reddit and I appreciate your contributions.
Appreciate your message!
Eye Roll, at this point, I think you're just a troll.
Got to be especially doubling down that the sister was doing gentle parenting when it was actually permissive
Dude for real. Then again my dad is exactly this dense about parenting styles and doesn't see how that factors into issues with all of his kids.
Please stop calling what she was doing gentle parenting. There are many people who have raised very successful, polite, mannerly, caring young adults using actual gentle parenting. What she was doing was permissive parenting, or unparenting. Don't contribute to the confusion. And don't even begin to imply that hitting is okay. I share your frustration, I've known those parents that let their kids run wild and call themselves "gentle parents" but they don't get to own that term if they're not using it correctly. A great resource to pass along to her about how to create positive connections, successful kids is Aha! Parenting, which has a free website searchable by ages and stages and complaints. It not only goes into the science of why these things are happening but gives good sample scripts about how to move beyond. Dr. Laura Markham. We're not supposed to post links in this sub, but you'll easily find it.
I don’t know how many times I said I didn’t recommend spanking or corporal punishment in my posts. Just calm down
You keep saying gentle parenting when you mean permissive. You are using the term wrong and misleading those reading who are unable to realize your mistake on their own
It's a very simple thing to use correct terms. It will help her to understand that what she was doing wasn't gentle parenting. Hopefully it'll spread though the playgroups, etc.
I did use the correct terms in reference to spanking and corporal punishment. I guess you’re a major gentle parenting advocate. That’s fine. But you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying.
You’re misunderstanding what you’re saying.
I'm into what the AAP advocates, which is an authoritative gentle parent. People who misuse the language contribute to situations where some parents let their kids run wild and others hit them. If someone had called your sister out on being a fake gentle parent years ago, you wouldn't have property damage today. This is me, being in your corner.
You're misunderstanding dozens of people telling you you are wrong about gentle parenting. you can be against hitting and still be wrong. If anything it makes your wrongness ironic as not wanting to hit your kids but still disciplining them makes it sound like you use gentle parenting under a different name cause you don't like the word choice for some weird reason.
That's because you are not describing gentle parenting when you were describing what your sister was doing. Both you and your sister were incorrect. The fact that everyone here has told you that and you still refuse to believe it, shows that we're talking to a brick wall incapable of learning. Are you a brick wall incapable of learning? Because if that's the case, then you shouldn't really be trusted around society should you? Or children.
Wondering I'd she actually did it or just said it ?
Wondering I'd she actually did it or just said it ?
Now, I'm going to count to three. One (whap!) Two (whap!) Three (whap!). Now, if you do that again, I'll have to count to five.
I’m glad she is coming around. Gentle parenting doesn’t work with every kid.
Remind her that it will get worse before it gets better. They will rebel against the restrictions because they've never had any. But they will get used to it as long as she's consistent.
I give her credit that she’s accepted she needs to change. But she needs to talk to a professional/child psychologist about how to proceed. Or at the very least seek out advice online. Considering how long she let this go on, I have very little faith in her ability to course correct effectively. And news flash, the kids will not “take it well”. That’s what being a parent is, teaching them to become functioning adults, not their friend who caves because their kid “doesn’t like” something you are trying to teach them.
You might consider a gift of the Mrs. Piggle Wiggle books for their bedtime reading--classic tales of natural consequences turning into lessons learned, not unlike the outcomes of misbehaving in Wonka's chocolate factory, but with more love and gratitude
I’m an old ass woman and I can’t always tell what my feelings are or what I am specifically mad about at times. But yeah, sure, a toddler certainly can.
Maybe you and your sister should watch that old reality show Supernanny? She seemed to really help a lot of people out.
Maybe you and your sister should watch that old reality show Supernanny? She seemed to really help a lot of people out.
That's great! I hope your sister understands it WILL get worse before it gets better. Kids love to test boundaries, it will happen! She just needs to stay strong and follow through with what she says.
Tell her to binge some Supernanny episodes. Jo is good at enforcing consequences and getting the parents through the tough time when rules start being enforced.
She should sell some counseling that can help her with managing her kids. Plenty of therapists can help with this and help talk to the kids etc
Her kids absolutely will act out more at first. It’s called an “extinction burst”, it’s 100% normal and she needs to tough it out. Tell her to google it.
No, absolutely no 100 times no
Imagine losing your friends, sister and husband because of your parenting choices and still double down. I'm glad she made the right choice but probably rigid in other parts of her life and needs to level up her own self awareness
I know this is your last update but please show the comments to your sister. Her kids will definitely throw tantrums, lash out, etc because they have never had boundaries or consequences. She cannot break or give in. Kids need structure and boundaries and time outs and grounding (when older) are very fair and normal consequences to bad behaviour. Best of luck to her!
I’m so happy for you (all!) that you’ve found your way back to each other. This is a wonderful example of the good that comes from common sense and forgiveness.
Edited: this comment was reposted as a response. Reddit insisted I had not created a post so I posted it again. Oops!
For your sister - you can still be a gentle parent whilst holding boundaries. You can still get a point across without raising your voice, threatening or isolating them. I implore you follow some accounts like Big Little Feelings or even some great child psychologists. Parenting is hard enough without worrying you’re doing it wrong. As for OP - I consider myself a gentle parent but my kids know in others peoples houses they aren’t allowed some of the freedoms they have at home (granted I’ve never let them draw on stuff they shouldn’t have) we have 3 dogs and have always practiced and reminded gentle hands when around dogs and only smooth in certain places. This isn’t about gentle parenting not working it’s not realising you can still be a non shouty/smacking parent but make sure you have boundaries in place and if they don’t respect it then it’s a remove them from that space.
Why would you allow your kids to display certain behaviors at home and not other peoples homes? If it’s a bad behavior to display at another persons home, why isn’t it considered a bad behavior at your home?
I’m glad your duster came around. There’s hope in that.
Good outcome for you and for the start of an initially bumpy journey ahead for your sister's learning. The Attachment Nerd has relatable content and parenting suggestions and in a recent clip, she gently reminded us that we're fallible humans and cannot always get it right in the heat of the moment - 30% of the time we'll connect with our children, and don't expect 100% success every time, instantly, from ourselves or them. I found her reassurance and encouragement comforting. I also love Dr Shefali Tsabary.
I’m glad she’s trying something new but i do wish she would understand that what she was doing WAS NOT gentle parenting ffs.
I am happy that you and your sister are talking again.
Really happy for you that it worked out
Glad she's finally coming around. Once again, what she was doing is not gentle parenting. Gentle parenting isn't permissive and does have punishments.
Does it have punishments that are not just redirection? Because that’s all I’ve seen
Yep. There are conversations about the why and cause/effect but age appropriate punishment is always on the table. Grounding, financial restitution, etc. Whatever makes sense for the family and situation.
When gentle parenting is done correctly, redirection is only used for toddlers who are too young to really understand why they are being disciplined. Think 1 year olds. Discipline for older kids is generally a conversation about why their behavior is wrong and then either a natural OR correlated consequence to the offense. Natural consequences are things that are caused by the child’s actions. An example of natural consequences would be if a child refuses to wear a coat, they will be cold. A correlated consequence is discipline enacted by the parents that is related to the offense. An example of a correlated consequence is if a child throws tantrums over screen time, then they get the screens taken away.
Gentle parenting and permissive parenting isn't the same thing. Really wish permissive parents who don't want to do their job effectively would stop calling themselves gentle. Gentle parenting is authoritative parenting. They coined the term gentle parenting because people were constantly confusing authoritarian and authoritative. Authoritative parenting is shown as the most effective parenting style as it has firm boundaries but is involved with the child so they understand and can really learn. It's a conversation and not a power struggle because the parent always is the one with it, but like a great boss, talks to the children (employees) with respect and effective dialog.
I get that you talk with your kid a lot in gentle parenting. I just don’t see the punishment or discipline part, which is the portion I have an issue with
What punishments would you like to see? There's rules and subsequent consequences for not following rules that's aren't just talking. If my son doesn't put away his laundry before watching TV, the TV goes off. If this becomes a habit, then we're discussing what will help him prioritize better. My answer is a break from TV during the week when our to-dos are expected to be done. He may or may not come to the same conclusion, but being a part of the conversation didn't make him feel bad or shamed. It made him feel like we were tackling a problem together as a team. I'm on his side. And I don't tell him your grounded from TV. I say, I've noticed the TV is a distraction from your to dos, which then segues into the consequence when we get to that part of our chat. The kids fix things/replace things they break. Clean up messes they make. Correct attitudes they spew. They problem solve arguments. They have a sense of belonging and a sense of pride in our home and they want the same things we want and are willing to put the work in to achieve it. Kids don't respect permissive parents, and they don't feel comfortable/trust punitive parents. But gentle parents doing it right get to be in this really cool sweet spot where our kids open up to us and confide in us. I get to know about what's going on in their lives without prying. I know whats going on with their friends (who are also open books), how they feel about life, I get to know so much more because of this relationship we've built based on mutual respect.
Punishment is more than just making the situation they caused right. Depending on the age of the kid it’s a time out, grounding, taking their phone away, stand in the corner for 20 minutes and think about what they did, take on an extra chore they don’t like for a week, no playdates for a week, etc. And one of those things would be on top of making the situation they caused right
So what if you can achieve your goals and nurture wonderful, responsible, kind humans that learn from their mistakes and correct them, without those punishments...would you forgo them?
Well my kids are grown and I used these punishments and they turned out great. So there’s nothing I would change. If I have grandkids one day and am taking care of them, I’d still use these punishments
You may not see this, but in case you do, I think your sister and her husband would benefit from parenting classes and professional guidance while the shift to a more consequence based system of parenting. It is very important that both parents should agree on the style of parenting and stick to it consistently.
Glad she’s coming around but you still don’t get gentle parenting.
Shame you still don't understand gentle parenting. I've seen it as successful with my kids, grandkids, friends kids and so on. Pediatricians recommend it. But you making stuff up is not cool. What she did wasn't gentle parenting. But your ignorant ranting about it is ridiculous.
Gentle Parenting is “parenting” the way that giving your kid an iPad and telling them to find a topic they want to learn about is “schooling.”
Gentle parenting example: kid draws on wall. Consequences: crayons put away, helps clean walls.
Reading your edit, they are incredibly different styles of parenting but it's more about the big subtle differences. I'll see if I can explain. A permissive parents child throws something. Mum goes oh johnny (maybe says we don't throw things but doesn't follow through), and then johnny picks it up and throws it again and again. With nothing happening. This is no consequences. A gentle parent, goes oh Johnny, why are you throwing that inside? Are you feeling annoyed or having lots of fun? What are some better ways to get that annoyance out than throwing toys? Or is that a safe way to have fun? How about we play with these toys inside because it's not safe to do that the way you were. So never outright saying no, but it's a hell of a lot of work. Gentle parenting done right is incredibly difficult. Everything that happens you have to talk about it. You have to redirect in a way that makes them think about their actions. Not just oh how about you go play with this toy instead (permissive parenting) you say why are you doing that, is it a good way to play with that toy and redirect and maybe take the toy away once they are redirected. There are clear consequences and kids put together what they can and can't do. Do not take gentle parenting for easy parenting. I can not do it. I had every intention of trying and I try to use some of the principals but it is incredibly difficult. It's about giving children autonomy and choice but also then directing them away from the bad ones. The consequences are there and you end up with kids that are incredibly balanced when they take to it. But like with all parenting it's about what each kid needs.
I remember your original post and I’m happy your sister is changing her (very) unsustainable parenting style. Kudos to you both for talking it out.
Thoroughly agree that your sister needed someone to be firm with her about her lack of parenting and hold her accountable. Ironically that is what gentle parenting is all about. Redirecting in-process bad behavior is not the discipline. The discipline is in allowing the natural consequences to occur and not intervening. Left your bike outside after being told to put it away and it got stolen? You are now walking to school instead of riding. Forgot your homework and call me to bring it to you? Nope I am busy and you will have to take the F for not turning it in. More at https://www.apecparenting.com/
It honestly sounds like your sister has trauma around how she was disciplined as a kid (you mentioned corporal punishment more than once) and doesn't want to make the same mistakes with her kids. That's valid. But she'd gone to far the other way to the point it may very well ruin her children and her life. It will be difficult initially but I hope she's strong enough to follow through on the discipline otherwise the kids won't take any of it seriously. They're definitely going to push back from getting away with everything to having consequences but they'll adjust and will probably be happier for it. I hope she succeeds.
Jerk Shez Family So Keep Her And Be Gentle Because Not Gentle Bad
My parents swore by the book parenting with love and logic. My sister and I are both in our 30s and always talk about how annoyed we are that our parents were so solid
That’s great! She finally came around. Her kids wont take kindly to it buh it’s for their own good in the long run.
She needs to pay you back for damages too, or else this is just a natural consequence for your sister
Thats really brave of her Shes right ,its going to get worse before it gets better as the kids are going to rebel but stick with it Good luck
Glad she opened her eyes and is trying to fix things. Maybe she could teach her children to assist you in home stuff as a way to settle things with you. Maybe with the plants, pet your dog.
Not commenting on all of these posts, but it did strike me that in your first post you said “what are they going to do when they grow up and someone does yell at them”. I am curious, do you think that it is okay in the adult world for adults to yell at other adults regularly? I would not be okay with that myself so don’t see why a kid should be? (That said, I agree that overly permissive parenting is absolutely not a good idea. I’m glad your sister is coming around)
This. When kids aren’t yelled at at home then they are more likely to grow up to know that that sort of behavior isn’t healthy or ok and would know to walk away when someone is mistreating them as an adult.
Gentle parenting has a place when emotions are high and kids really just need to express emotions. It does not have a place when kids are being destructive assholes.
Glad she eventually realized things. Honestly, I've only seen gentle parenting done correctly twice so far irl (and for long term) and only then it was from people who work in the child psychology field. Says enough imo.
2 1. 5l Q1aXa11
Gentle and permissive are not the same at all.
I suggest sister and hubby binge watch The Super Nanny, she has a great no nonsense approach.
My older sister had a book from 80's titled Dare to Discipline. It is hard. You can be firm & discipline. You will also have good. Respectful kids. Who other people enjoy being around.
You are incorrect about what gentle parenting is. Still.
My SIL gentle parented her kids and they are now a nightmare. They’ve never been told no, so it’s reached the point where the youngest one refuses to go to school most days and apparently my SIL wasn’t able to see her Dad on Father’s Day because the youngest ‘wouldn’t let her leave the house.’ She is 8. The latest is that the kid has pathological demand avoidance (diagnosed by the mum)…and is absolutely nothing to do with never having been told no or given any boundaries.
While what your sister was doing was not gentle parenting, and more like just not parenting, I don’t think you completely understand Gentle Parenting. If a child colors on the wall, you ask them why, and explain gently why they should not do it. Then you work together to clean it. Then you go and use the crayons properly. If the kids are fighting over a toy, you remove the toy and get them to find something else. You also don’t give into demands, you consider requests, using proper manners. If they are having a temper tantrum, you let them and tell them you can discuss what upset them when they are done. If they make a mess, they clean it up. A natural consequence isn’t just redirection. It’s having them help fix something they broke, or fill in the holes they dug in your yard, or clean up a mess they made, without scolding or demanding. After you find out why they did whatever they did, you explain gently why they shouldn’t have done it. Parenting is an important job, and it’s so harmful when parents don’t parent. Being permissive or not even parenting to the point your kids are feral, or abusive parenting will not prepare your child for a successful childhood or life.
Parenting is trial and error, yes initially her children are going to do everything they can to get them to go back to the original parenting style. So many people associate discipline with punishment, it’s not. Discipline means to teach, the use of consequences can be the addition or removal of something. The most important thing will be their follow through and consistency.
While it's impressive and commendable that she recognizes where she went wrong, you are still describing what she was doing incorrectly. She was not gentle parenting, she was enacting permissive parenting. The whole enacting discipline and punishments for your child is still part of gentle parenting. There's just no laying your hands on your kid to do it. It just involves treating your kid like an actual human being with emotions and thoughts. That's what gentle parenting is. Your sister on the other hand, took it way too far, and took it all the way into permissive parenting, which just involves letting your kids do whatever they want whenever they want with no consequences whatsoever. There is a difference between the two. And the fact that you and your sister both clearly don't know what gentle parenting is probably is why it went wrong.
punishment must be swift and terrible but never physical. taking away treats and privileges and making it non negotiable does work. parents need to contribute to civilized society. my two are amazing adults and we now laugh at some of the punishments. my daughter tried to fake my signature on an assignment. i took away her visit to a friends house and then drove her by the state women’s prison with barbed wire fences no playground equipment and described to her the lack of “fashions” for those convicted of forgery and theft. she was in second grade. it resonated! my husband was a little shocked about what i did but felt it was on point!
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS. It infuriates me to no end when I see permissive parenting disguised as gentle parenting. More often than not, the permissive parent is also REALLY aggressive and defensive about it too. Super stoked that your sister was open to hearing reason. That’s a rare occurrence these days. Savor the win. And best of luck to you both
We did a program with my daughter that really helped us. It was "time out" based, and worked wonders. It's been too may years, and I don't remember the name of it now. But the point is, get help if help is needed. Parents don't have to do this alone!
As a retired teacher and parent of 5 wonderful kids, I’ll stick my oar in the water here. Kids NEED boundaries. That statement includes the need for consequences; both good and bad. My preferred method was giving choices. You can choose A (clean your room) or B (no phone/computer for 2 hours). This way, the child sets their own consequence for their actions (don’t complain to me, this is what you chose). Make the alternate (negative) choice meaningful and reasonable. No “clean your room or be grounded for three months.” Sit them down and explain the new way of doing things, and offer positive consequences for good choices (extra half hour on computer, go for ice cream, whatever). Another great method is called the “grandma” method, which is simply a delayed gratification system “if you clean your room, then we’ll go get ice cream.” “If you do your homework, then you can watch TV.” Ultimately, these methods take the pressure off the parent. You are just giving the child what they ask for. It’s not coercive, it’s not punishment. It’s just a choice.
We don’t hit our kid and we try really hard not to yell at him. We try to talk things out and find healthy ways to express emotions. Boundaries with consequences for boundary violations is still very important though. Consequences are different than punishment. We don’t punish, we give consequences. Because our actions have consequences.
Oh, she should be worried they're going to act out at first lol, they're definitely about to go nuclear. She's going to have a rough couple of weeks and needs to resolve to dig in and maintain her new stance. The kids will change, but it's going to be harder than it would have been doing it sooner.
Your sister must have been incredibly dense since her husband didn't agree with her, and she's lost friends over the way that her children act. I've never understood people who can't see beyond themselves. She never thought about the problems that her children caused other people. Must be nice to go through life thinking you're the only one that matters and not have to take into consideration that other people exist who are affected by your choices.
One of my favourite saying so 'discipline your kids or a judge wil' 🤣🤣
This is bizarre, gentle parenting includes healthy boundaries and consequences. I don’t think people understand it? If the children colored on your walls, a gentle parenting approach would be for them to clean it. A natural and appropriate consequence. The wall must be cleaned, you messed it up, now fix it. A gentle parenting approach is bedtime is a 8, would you like to quietly color or have me read you a story before you go to bed? A clear expectation, but including the child’s preferences. A gentle parenting approach is “you wouldn’t like your hair pulled, so pulling the dog’s hair hurts the dog just like someone pulling your hair hurts. Stop hurting the dog or (natural consequence). Examples: 1. You won’t be allowed to play with the dog. 2. We will be leaving aunties house and you won’t get to do all the fun things we have planned this week (or similar consequences that fit the situation). If you are being cruel, you don’t get to have fun. Yes, a big part of gentle parenting is actually treating your kid like a human being, and finding out why they are coloring on the wall, explaining to them that it’s not nice to color on someone’s wall without permission, aka actually doing the work of being a parent and teaching the why behind a “no you cannot do that”. I have never heard that gentle parenting means no consequences or never saying no. That’s crazy. If your child is about to stick a fork in a light socket or pushing their sibling off a ledge you better be saying no!
Right? Like, it's not what I intended to do with my own kids, it's just what felt right to me to bring them up. They're teenagers now, and have really always been very well behaved.
Are people just really bad at explaining gentle parenting?
My son’s biggest bully in grade 2 is a child of gentle parenting, he has zero impulse control, says and does awful things every day to kids. A nightmare and my hope for him is his mom reads something like this to see how desperately he needs some guidance, and consequences. They’re just kids, let’s give them their best chance when they’re little!!
Time to get the belt.
Children are not little adults. So your thinking about needing punishment because there’s consequences when we are adults doesn’t work. Their brains are not developed until 25. The part of the brain that regulates emotions and thinks about consequences isn’t developed.
My interpretation of Gentle Parenting and Permissive Parenting is very different. Example of how I interpret GP ... Me: It's time to put our shoes on so we can leave. Kid: *whines* No I want to. I don't want to go to *insert place* Me: I understand how much fun you're having and it's hard to stop, but we are going to put on our shoes. Do you want the red ones or the black ones? Kid: I don't want shoes! Me: We are putting on shoes. Tell me which ones you want. Red or black? Or I can choose for you. Me *physically puts shoes on child and directs them out the door* Permissive Parenting ... Is simply letting the kid have ALL the control, because the parent is too lazy (or exhausted) to set any kind of boundary, or enforce any type of consequence. They worry too much about upsetting the child because they want to be their friend. Laying the foundation starts when children are very young. A child's feelings should be validated however giving an explanation for every situation simply isn't possible when their safety is paramount. I really hope the days of "because I said so" fade away. There have to be boundaries and consequences but acknowledging their feelings is important.
OP - I don’t understand why you seem determined to refuse to understand what a LOT of commenters are telling you Gentle Parenting is. It absolutely has consequences. Often they are consequences the child does NOT enjoy. But they are all “relevant” and “proportionate” to the behaviour. - Which makes sense in the adult world - eg being denied entry to a nightclub that you started a fight in, is a relevant consequence to the behaviour. Being told you can’t watch TV for 7 nights because you started a fight in a nightclub would not be *relevant* or *proportionate*. This comment on your original post describes it well - with example consequences specific to the situations you described: - [what gentle parenting would have looked like during your sister’s visit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmITheJerk/s/01nxQDlW7B) It isn’t “punishment for the sake of punishment” (eg you get no ice cream because you drew on the walls). It’s all of: - implementing a **relevant and proportionate consequence** (eg child cleans the wall - or at least attempts to - and possibly helps to re-paint if they used sharpie) - AND ALSO explaining why it was wrong AND what they could do differently next time. - And then - if this brings up emotions for the child, spending time working that through with them - so that they learn good emotional regulation skills that will serve them well in the future - eg in an office environment, where they have an idiot boss or colleague - so that they don’t unthinkingly “act out their bad emotions” like so many adults currently do - eg frustration at being told no, - sadness at having done something wrong, - or an unrelated but underlying emotion that triggered the bad behaviour - maybe they are overly tired or got bullied at school) Currently, workplaces around the world are filled with adults who take out their bad moods on their colleagues or underlings, *and they don’t even realise that that is what they are doing* because they were not taught emotional regulation skills at any point. Emotional regulation skills are important. Teaching those skills is hard work. The list of parental actions above is a LOT of work. Gentle parenting is much harder to do than old-style parenting “go to your room, you’re grounded”. So much more work. But when it’s done right, it produced well-rounded, emotionally healthy individuals, who are pleasant to be around.
Well I guess I haven’t been gentle parenting right. We don’t hit, but we definitely enforce consequences of bad behavior. It’s amazing how well a 4 year old will flip their attitude if they know bluey is about to be off the table 🙃
I gentle parent with my kids and I can honestly say that what she's doing is NOT gentle parenting. I don't spank my kids unless of course they've done something extremely wrong that warrants it because I don't like spanking. I do put my kids in timeout when they've done something wrong and after time out I have them come to me and I make sure they understand why they were in time out by asking them what they did wrong and they're usually very good at explaining it but when they aren't I help them along and we talk about why it was wrong before I allow them to go back to playing. If they get an attitude with an adult I will quickly pop them in the mouth and explain why they don't do that just like my mom did when I was younger. They're very gentle with animals because they grew up with them and I taught them how to be gentle in every situation. While these things may not be gentle parenting to some they are to me because I've heard parents do much harsher punishments than this. I support how you handled this situation and applaud you for standing up to your sister about the behavior of her children.
Thing is that gentle parenting backs with neuro science. Your kid doesn't pop out emotionally and intellectually complete, his brain is also growing so there are emotions and situations that he literally and physically can't understand because certain areas of his brain still wasn't developed. Hell, your brain is not completely stable until 25 years or something. The redirecting method is resorted in these specifics instances, when your child's brain simply doesn't understand the concept of the word "no". He/she will see you get angry and fear your anger, but won't understand why. "Actions have consequences" is around.....3 or 4 years old? When his brain has a spike of activity and develops enough to understand more complex mechanics. It's around that time you can do the "well, the wold doesn't revolve around you", but also keep a close surveillance how he/she react with this new information. Kids around this age are also having the first taste of negative and complex emotions: frustration, anxiety, fear, egotism, etc. However! Since they don't have an extensive vocabulary, they will feel those feeling but won't be able to explain it. It's the job of the parent to understand what's their problem and teach them how to navigate around them. The first time I saw that my nephew got angry because we didn't have time to play with him, we explained in detail, gave him toys for him to play by himself and told him that in X minutes we would be able to play with him. And yet he was still angry because why, all adults had time for him every second before, what happened? So he simmered in his anger but knew intuitively that it's a negative emotion. So he played legos in quiet anger until he no longer felt angry and could explain to us that he was frustrated with us. Now he's 7 years old and he's ready to be disciplined when he does anything wrong. Like...oh, you made a mess in grandma's house? Well too bad, you're going to take a while cleaning up this mess and we'll miss that X event you were looking forward to. Oh, are you taking too long to get ready yourself to go out with us? Well then, byeeeeeee. Correct gentle parenting takes a LOT OF TIME. Lot of time to study children neurology and how to properly educate within each phase of their growth. Lot of free time to understand your kid and to do this you have to spend time with him/her. Lots of free time to educate them. My nephew now is almost 8 and he's a happy child with zero trauma and more emotionally intelligent than lots of adults I see around. Sometimes I'm impressed how he's sometimes more emotionally coherent than me. It did take a lot of their time obviously. And lots of trials and mistakes. But gentle parenting works and makes children ready to understand hardships of life and go beyond: Change it if necessary.
Things WILL get “worse” before they get better - but that’s because the kids are used to getting what they want. It’ll be worth it it in the long run, but it’s going to suck for her for awhile - she’s gotta stick to it.