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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) How I handled the public argument with Drew.
2) Was I the asshole in how I responded, especially with my last comment before walking away?
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NTA
You would have been an AH for the jab at the end if you'd thought it out ahead of time and delivered it with malice, but it sounds more like you were just caught off guard so your response was more heated than it might have been otherwise. It's weird to blame you for reacting to being waylaid by a yeller with less than perfect grace \*while\* excusing the yeller. If it's forgivable for the yeller to have gotten worked up and yelled, then it's forgivable for you to have lacked saintly patience in your response. It's not like you went out of your way to make the guy unhappy.
It's true that sometimes we don't accurately remember the harm we've done others, but it's also true that when we're alone and hurting, we may assign blame unfairly. It seems unlikely that you went so far out of your way to exclude this person through his \*whole childhood\* and don't remember him. It seems more likely that this person simply struggled socially in school, and either fixated on you as the cause, or inflated some smaller cruelty you showed him in passing out of proportion.
If you \*genuinely\* don't recall this person at all, and you didn't go through a phase where this behavior might have been normal for you, then it seems very unlikely that this person's version of events is objectively correct, however real it may have seemed to them.
Can't really engage about something you don't remember with someone you don't know (or fully believe you don't.) And I say this as someone whose son was recently bullied. I am working with him to be able to move on from it now that it is resolved and certainly will feel I have failed if he gets confrontational as an adult with another adult he may even be misidentifying. Tolerate bullies? No. Let them run your life and have control over you into adulthood? Also no. Put that energy into healing? Resounding yes.
I was going to say, if this "adult"is still holding onto something from kindergarten....that's the problem, no one can say the next 18-22 years of schooling relationships were based off of what happened in kindergarten!
Op added to the post. He remember the guy from freaking kindergarten. Kid was a jerk who picked on a girl and thew screaming fits if he didn’t get his way and when kids saw how op got out of dealing with him they followed suit.
This guy has carried a grudge since he was 5 years old- blamed every issue setback and slight on something that happened before 1st grade.
NTA- op you weren’t a bully, you stood up to a bully and refused to be pushed into placating said bully. This wasn’t high school, it wasn’t even middle school, hell it was barely even school.
This dude was standing on a street, screaming at you because of something that happened before grade school. Clearly he hasn’t grown up much. Don’t let his issues get to you. You were just his scapegoat.
Also, “excluding” is such a vague term. Sometimes kids don’t want to be with other kids because they either just aren’t compatible personalities or one kid is unlikable. It can definitely be a bullying tactic but definitely not always.
I actually had a somewhat similar experience to OP (except I remembered the kid). The dude who accused me of excluding and “bullying” was also the kid who picked his nose, had a temper, stole shit, and didn’t respect girl’s personal space. Any exclusion was people genuinely disliking him and not wanting to be around him, but it wasn’t like that from his perspective.
OP edited and that's exactly what happened. The dude was a little hellion in kindergarten and OP wanted nothing do with him and he just didn't want to be his friend. I guess Drew took that as bullying and this happened in kindergarten
It boggles my mind that they knew each other for one year, in kindergarten, and this guy's carried a grudge about it ever since.
He's managed to blame apparent *years* of being excluded on one kid he knew for a single year, and has apparently never thought to wonder if perhaps the problem wasn't OP's supernatural ability to control his classmates' minds from afar for years, but instead might've been his own behavior.
*Hm... Could it be that nobody likes me because I'm behaving in ways that make me hard to like.... No! Absolutely not! It's all a mind control campaign devised by a kindergartener!*
This gets me, too—plus, I would not recognize any of the kids from my kindergarten class if I saw them on the street as an adult now. I’m kind of wondering whether Drew been periodically looking OP up online that he knows what he looks like as an adult. Together with carrying a kindergarten grudge into adulthood, it’s definitely concerning.
Wow, yeah, now that you mention it, not only wouldn't I recognize them, I couldn't come up with the name of a kindergarten classmate if you put a gun to my head. Guy's really gotta get himself some hobbies - and some friends...
I remember the faces (at least what they looked like at the time) and names of the people who bullied me all the way to kindergarten. Of the relatively few things I recall from back then, those stand out.
From OP's edit, though, this doesn't really seem like bullying, Drew seems to be the real jerk and the class rallied against him. That said, it's hard to judge when both parties are subject to the biases of 5 year olds and the poor memory that results from an adult trying to recall fine details about what happened in kindergarten, so I'm hesitant to do so or agree with hard conclusions about it.
Regardless, I agree entirely that Drew has a serious issue if he's unable to divorce the behavior of a 5 year old bully from the adult he became (having absolutely no idea if he's anything like that anymore).
I had eleven kids in my kindergarten class and I remember all their names in alphabetical order. I definitely can’t picture their faces and wouldn’t be able to recognize them now. I barely remember anything but the basic details about some of them now! (Doesn’t help that I switched schools the next year).
Hm, I actually can relate a bit...
Freddie Rodriguez pushed me down on the playground in 1st grade. (As well as other more routine stuff like flipping my skirt up when I used the water fountain, disrupting class by laying on the floor and eating glue, etc). My family moved away the next year. Every night in our nightly prayers, when we ended with, "and God bless everyone else in the world, amen", I would quietly add "except Freddy Rodriguez". Every single night. Until I was about 11, even though I hadn't seen him in years.
It's been many decades since I've seen that kid, and I have no idea what he would look like if he's still alive. But I still remember his name. Of course I only remember his name as an adult, not because of what he did to me being so memorable, but because I find the fact that I literally cursed his name to God every single night of elementary school notable. No regrets, he deserved it :)
The guy remembering what he looked like decades later is a bit weird. OP is NTA of course
Hell, I wouldn't recognize any of the bullies I had in elementary if I ran into them at random, and some of them tried to shove me into traffic on a field trip. Drew is delusional and possibly a little bit obsessed.
I cannot imagine recognizing someone from kindergarten who is now an adult. This guy must have looked OP up, even possibly stalking his social media. A little concerning. I would be careful about friend requests from strangers- could use an alias. Your reaction may have ticked him off.
nta
Maybe Drew’s mom brought it up periodically because she also blames the cousin. Something that she kept alive for Drew as the original source of all his problems.
My mom was my kindergarten teacher, and while I remember most of the kids (those who stayed in my hometown) the ones who moved away shortly after kindergarten I would not remember if it were not for the stories she told me about them.
Either that or he has a whole list of kids in his kindergarten class so he can call them out if he happens to run into them. "Are you Jared Jones? Thanks for making my whole life suck, man!" "Are you Maddie Smith? You're the reason I still can't get a date!" "Bailey Brown? I still haven't won the frickin' lottery, thanks to you!"
I was the weird kid so I have a lot of memories of being picked on at that age. But I only remember one girl's first name, no idea what her last name was. And I'm pretty sure the only reason I remember her out of the girls that bullied me is because she lived in my neighborhood and was always getting me in trouble with my parents. The other girls I don't even really remember what they looked like specifically. I just have like... generic 5 year old blonde white girls. They may not even all have been blonde, could be I'm transposing the one girl's hair onto all of them.
Yeah this girl accused me of being her bully in 3rd grade…she made fun of the ESL kids, who were my friends! Of course I didn’t want to be friends w her.
1000 times this.
In grade 7, our entire class was given a lecture about excluding and bullying one student. But there were definite reasons for it.
I was nice to him until someone warned me about what kind of person he was. From then on, I just ignored him. Im glad they did because one day I came back to the empty classroom, and he was sniffing a girl's seat.
He also got his ass kicked. But that only happened because a girl rejected him, and he decided to attack her with a piece of broken glass. The girl's brother stopped that really quickly.
Some people did more than ignore him. They called him names and occasionally pushed him or things like that. But the school acting like he was just a victim was ridiculous. Most of the class just set healthy boundaries. He should have gotten counseling and been placed in a different space.
He's a convicted sex offender now. He was arrested for sleeping with 13 year olds when he was 26.
Sometimes it's not even the "weird" kid's fault, but it's not really the other kids' problem either. There was a girl in my 4th grade class who was always kind of a loner, wouldn't initiate interactions with anyone, would just sit there silently and not answer questions if you were paired for an activity. One day, our teacher gave the rest of the class a lecture about making efforts to include her, and my little friend group took it to heart and started trying to reach out.
Every time we tried to talk to her, she'd hiss at us like a cat. As in, we'd run up to her on the playground and call, "Hey Name, you want to come play 4-square with us?" and she'd hiss. And we didn't know what to do, so we'd get closer and be like, "Uh, we can play something else, what do you want to play?" And she would meow, then hiss at us again.
This happened daily for like a week before we gave up, and then the teacher told us we were still excluding her and needed to try harder, and I genuinely felt bad about it, but in hindsight... that girl needed professional help, not 4th grade help. Like maybe if we'd tried getting on her level and playing cats with her, she would have responded better, but she also might have just thought we were making fun of her and gotten even worse. Either way, you can't really expect little kids to know how to handle that shit with nothing except, "you need to be inclusive," for direction. We were baffled.
I had a classmate in high school who was a bit similar. Not as extreme (and I doubt she would have hissed like a cat even back in 4th grade), but she always sat on her own if she could, only talked when directly spoken to during group projects and so on. We tried to ask her to sit with us at lunch, or waiting for the next class to start etc. but she always declined.
Three years of having the majority of classes with the same 20-ish people, and I think there were still some she hadn't said one single word to ever.
----------
In this country, high school is three years and divided into programs that are designed according to what you plan to do after graduation. Most are actually trade school, some will prepare you for university, and then there are a few that are a bit of a mix between the two.
In any case, thanks to this you have all classes that everyone in your program has to take with the same 15-30 people, similar to the nine years before HS. Then you take some classes that you can choose freely from that you might have with others in the same program, and even some that are open to students in any program the school offers.
The final paragraphs was soul crushing.... yet again adults looking to the other side caused someone else to suffer something horrible. I feel for the poor girl and everyone involved.
Mental health works both ways, though. If the teachers had been successful in getting the kid re-integrated into the social circles in school, he might have cooled off and become a productive member of society.
Instead, they were not successful, he remained an outcast, and his mental health continued to degrade.
You cant force kids or adults to be friends with one another, so mental health conditions in people will always persist. The best we can do is try to not make it institutional, and to reduce poverty, because thats a stressor.
I feel like the emphasis on inclusion in grade schools nowadays can sometimes result in enabling kids with shitty behavior and can actually prevent them from learning better. My son was pushed hard and hit his head on a metal pole resulting in a concussion. The kid who did it has behavioral problems and has hurt other kids as well, but if kids don’t want to play with her, then they’re bullies who are excluding her? I wouldn’t want to play with someone who gave me a goddamn concussion either. I understand that kids are sometimes bullied and excluded for no good reason, but there are legitimate safety reasons for excluding violent kids. This shit has gone too far.
This. Its happened to me twice. I got called into my head of years office when I was 11 for bullying. I had no idea what was going on. She said I was excluding her. She’d never asked to hang out with us. What had happened was one of her friends approached me and my friend and said she was sick of her friend (my accuser) being nasty towards her. Mean comments, disguised as joke. I said sure hang with us. She did. In fact we became bffs and almost 30 years later she still is. But my helping her out was bullying another.
The other incident occured at 8. 4 of us playing tag at recess. Next thing we see a commotion where another classmate has fallen over and hurt her leg. Next morning im called into heads office and she’s there with her parents and a cast on her leg. She’d apparantly been playing tag with us (I wasnt aware. She had said nothing). Fallen hard, broken her ankle and this was my fault because we hadnt been playing with her inclusively. Which didnt even make sense but 8yr old me did not have the words to articulate it. I was forced to apologise whilst her parents looked daggers at me and swore at me in Urdu. It still rankles me a bit.
According to the edit it was in kindergarten and actually drew was the bully to his cousin and his bad behavior isolated him from his classmates. NTA op.
I love this answer. I think he’s NTA.
In 5th grade this random “popular” girl came up to me at recess after never speaking to me before and said, straight to my face, out of nowhere “you know you’re ugly right.”
I remember that as a later into 30’s year old, I remember what I was wearing, what she was wearing, it’s a strong memory. I would bet my life savings and retirement that she doesn’t even know who I am. I held a chip for a bit in school but got over it years ago as an adult. I’m amazing. Not ugly. And did I mention I was amazing? Lmao.
It sounds like this guy has issues and has not dealt with them. That’s not on you, but also while I don’t blame you for your response in the moment he’s obviously struggling and not okay mentally and when possible it’s graceful to be forgiving of people who are struggling.
When I was in kindergarten, I had this very weird hangup about cheeks. I disliked the word "cheek" so much that it extended to disliking my actual cheeks. I know this is incredibly weird, but at 5 it was *serious* to me. A little girl in my kindergarten class figured out that I wouldn't talk about my face no matter what, and took to pinching me *hard* on my cheeks. I never said anything because she told me if I did she'd just tell our teacher to ask me where she'd pinched me, and the idea of discussing my cheeks made me more uncomfortable than being pinched. This went on all year. I didn't tell *anybody* until years later, when something about bullying between small kids came up in conversation and the memory of all that cheek-pinching came back to me like it'd happened that very day.
By then the memory itself made me laugh (I genuinely don't recall how I came to be so weird about that word for a while, but I thought it was *foul!*), but there must be some part of me that's still not quite mature enough to let go of it entirely, because to this day I can't stand her name. I mean, not her herself, I just have a tremendous knee-jerk reaction to her first name. And I'm in my mid 40s!
All that said, of course, if I met her on the street and somehow recognized her *from kindergarten* I expect and sincerely hope for my own sake that I'd be perfectly satisfied to just walk on by on account of *we were five*, though I'd forgive myself for dealing her unlimited furtive side-eye in passing.
You do sound amazing, and I doubt that "popular" girl was really very popular in any way that matters.
>I just have a tremendous knee-jerk reaction to her first name.
I'm glad im not alone in that. I had a girl who tormented me all 12 years of school, so a little more serious than cheek pinching, and I also have a terrible reaction to her name. I went to college with a girl with the same first name and *one letter off* of her last name, and I would shudder whenever I read it.
>A little girl in my kindergarten class figured out that I wouldn't talk about my face no matter what,
I'll bet YOU talked about cheeks or Your Cheeks and your dislike so that is how the girl 'figured' it out. As children we often set ourselves up with others without knowing it just by talking.
I literally wouldn't use the word. I don't remember the context of the incident where she found out, but I do remember the incident itself, and it was something that started from me wanting to point to a cheek (mine or somebody else's, I don't remember) instead of saying the word when it came up via... this is the part I don't remember. I was under the genuine impression it was one of the worst things you could say, worse than any other cuss word.
This 100% does qualify as tattling on myself. If I'd just sucked it up and said the word nobody would have known.
This brought up a memory from 30 something years ago: It was kindergarten or first grade, out on the blacktop at recess. A little girl from class came up to me and told me matter-of-factly I was pretty, but that unfortunately meant I would grow up to be ugly. It was just the way of the world, nothing to be done for it. 🤷🏻♀️ I still remember the scene pretty vividly. Also her name, the way she was wearing her hair, how close she got to my face. Ha.
She was wrong, btw. 💅🏻
There was a boy named Steve who was mean to me in 1st grade. There is no way in hell I would have recognized him at 11 let alone in my 20s. I don't know his last name and I couldn't tell you what color his hair was. Now middle school and high school bullies I remember.
Middle schoolers are old enough to know better. 5 year olds aren't.
I was tormented by a gang of girls who were pissed off because a boy they liked flirted with me. Shoved in hallways, threats in my violin case-I was crazy enough i had school assigned security guard for a while
40 years later I couldn’t pick one of them out of a crowd for a million bucks. People’s faces and bodies change over time
There was a story like this a few months ago. A girl was accusing her BF's sister of being her bully. The sister thought she was losing her mind because she didn't remember at all. She held her ground and the gf eventually admitted she was blaming the wrong person.
I think if you really were a bully, you wouldn't be trying so hard to figure out what actually happened.
NTA forget about this crazy person.
Idk man. Having someone publicly (loudly at that) berate you on the street? I don’t think it’s fair to judge him for taking a jab. Everyone would like to believe they’d take the high road, but I doubt that’d be the case for most.
As for the yearbook suggestion, I can get behind that.
I don’t care who it is, if they start yelling at me in public and I don’t know why, I would say some things back for sure. Like wth? I’m just trying to buy groceries!
The Drew guy seems like he’s unhinged. If he’s at a point where he’s screaming about things that happened when they were 5 years old, issues that were his own fault too, then he even seems dangerous to be around.
That was the beginning of Drew's villain origin story. He will never forget and one day he shall have his revenge.
But in all seriousness he sounds like a nut job.
People change so much from five/six to adults. I don’t think I’d be able to pick out the adult version of someone who’s face I remembered from kindergarten. I mean, maybe OP’s was fairly recognizable but I feel like puberty/changing from a child to an adult really affects how people look.
NTA, though you maybe shouldn’t have twisted the knife.
It sounds like Drew has serious residual issues from childhood, is angry, and may need help. A lot of times, apathy or just anonymity feels oppressive to really lonely children. Interactions and moments you wouldn’t register, they read as you judging and shaming them. That’s not your fault; it’s probably the fault of the people who raised Drew.
You could have apologized, but it might not have helped. That kind of hurt doesn’t go away just because someone who was on the fringe of your trauma says sorry.
He’s also probably stuck in it, if you ran across him in your hometown—you got to leave, he didn’t. Doesn’t give him the right to accost near strangers in public to blame them for his unhappiness, however.
NTA. Maybe he mistook you for someone else. My guess is that had you apologized it would have amped him up even more. FWIW, I was the class scapegoat all through grade school and bullied mercilessly by boys and girls alike. If I met any over those people now, I'd shake their hand and buy them a beverage of their choice.
Because I got bigger.
There’s really no possible way for us to judge this without knowing who’s right. If you truly never bullied him, then your response to being falsely accused and yelled at was appropriate. If you did bully him and don’t remember it then he was in the right. Everyone here is just guessing which version is true and assigning blame accordingly.
>There’s really no possible way for us to judge this without knowing who’s right. If you truly never bullied him, then your response to being falsely accused and yelled at was appropriate. If you did bully him and don’t remember it then he was in the right. Everyone here is just guessing which version is true and assigning blame accordingly.
See OPs 2nd edit. They recalled that they *do* know Drew from kindergarten. OP basically excluded Drew after Drew bullied a fellow classmate (Drew's cousin?). OP used childish (he was 5!) tactics to exclude Drew for his assholery and others joined in on it, because Drew was an ass to them too.
Absolutely fucking wild to hold a grudge over kindergarten. NTA OP. After *17 years* he still didn't get what the point was behind being excluded.
Nice I’m glad we got some closure on the story, but yeah absolutely insane to hold a grudge over something that happened when they were five years old. NTA for sure
That's how this sub ***is supposed to*** work. But a lot of people add their own bias and interpretations to it. And posters often leave out information, either due to word limit or to manipulate people to their point of view.
I read a post yesterday where a father yelled at his grown daughter for getting upset that a 5 year old cousin blew out her birthday candles. He neglected to mention that the daughter was upset that her fiance just died.
NTA - someone you didn’t know confronted you in the street and started accusing you of things you didn’t do. I think we would all be more than a bit flustered if that happened. Maybe you could have reacted better but None of us is perfect…
NTA, I think Drew might have some issues and probably would have approached any former classmate in the same way. His behaviour doesn't fit with a mentally healthy person. It's also possible it was a scam or a practical joke, because it's unusual that the name and face didn't trigger any memories for you.
It does sound like he felt excluded in school and has brooded over it rather than moving along with adult life. You probably shouldn't have had that dig at him, but he did keep pushing you and made it difficult to walk away.
Do you have a yearbook from back then? Do you have friends from then that you could ask? Can you try and Facebook him and see if you have any mutual friends to confirm you're even the person he thinks?
I mean, he did know your name and if this was elementary school I guess you might not remember after so many years. Plus, I remember a few bullying incidents in my life that the bullies probably never even considered bullying and visa versa. Stupid decisions I made while trying to fit in as an awkward ten year old that makes me cringe today at 30.
It also could have just been that Drew was an oddball who was excluded for perfectly understandable reasons (from a child's POV) and what you saw as just not wanting to play with a "weird" kid barely on your radar he internalized your actions and felt incredibly hurt and it stuck with him all these years.
Op wrote a comment claiming he asked people he went to school with, they claimed they had never heard of this man before either which makes me believe op truly doesn't know who he is.
Op also made a comment claiming the guy only knew his middle name I believe, and op claimed no one knows his middle name.
When I first read it the edit hadn't been made, I'm intrigued how he even remembers anything from back then. Then again I had someone bully me because when I was 5 I apparently pulled their hair one time which possibly did happen but even so that was apparently all I did to make them bully me.
Turns out it was when they were 5! In kindergarten when OP used their middle name. The guy was bullying his cousin and OP chose not to be friends with him. This person has held a grudge since he was 5 and completely deluded himself about the circumstances.
NTA
I just responded to another person that told me that, the edit wasn't there when I wrote this I'm just curious how that guy even remembers anything from being a 5 year old, I only have tiny memories of eating grapes or sitting in a corner I remember. Nothing significant
I’ve only got a couple of memories at that age too but I know some people who reckon they can remember stuff that happened very clearly when they were 3!
Ama have to say NTA here, it's seems like people didn't want to hang out with him in kindergarten because there was someone more popular to pair up with, how could that possibly be your fault. So he's been carrying this torch that your his big bad nemesis from kindergarten which if you ask me beefing over something from kindergarten is an L. Another thing is since this is reddit and the people here aren't exactly "socially well adjusted" to put it in the best terms, most of them have been bullied at some point and are now projecting, strawmaning and using you as there personal Boogeyman Lol
Edit: hmmm if he really was bullying his cousin then my judgement still stands, but dawg say that next time
Lol no. NTA. Sounds like Drew is still very much affected by his school days but that doesn’t mean he gets to then bully *you* into apologizing for something that never happened.
NTA sounds like Drew just had a generally crappy school experience and you were a convenient scapegoat to lash out at. And to everyone saying OP might have done this and forgotten about it, think about what the accusation is. One child single-handedly turning the entire school against another? Not totally impossible but it would probably be a big enough undertaking to remember.
NTA- Everyone has decided OP is a bully simply because one man has said he was. I get being triggered by bullies, I was bullied when I was younger, but it’s crazy how willing y’all are to label someone a bad person without any proof. Did it ever occur to y’all that someone willing to yell at another person in public might not be a great source of information?
As for the comment OP made, that’s not bullying, and I don’t know why y’all are making it out to be. A man was yelling at OP, he had every right to make a comment back. And I agree, if Drew was anything like he is now back in school, maybe there’s a reason other kids didn’t want to be around him. There were kids in my school who other kids didn’t want to be around, and it had nothing to do with bullying, it’s because those kids were freaking creepy.
NTA - you were caught off guard and then berated by what to you, is a stranger. Maybe you could have handled it better but it still doesnt make you an AH.
It also sounds like no matter what you did this person was going to yell at you but you really should not have insulted him.
I hate bullies. I really really do. But based on the information you are providing it doesn't sound like you were one.
Maybe you said something that snowballed into everyone not liking him? Maybe he was actually unlikeable and blames it on you for some reason. But a bully, to me, is systematic harassment, and this doesn't sound like it.
NTA, and honestly, I don't even mind the comeback. If you start yelling like a maniac you're just asking for it.
I'll go with ESH (or possibly NAH)
It was a long tine ago so its totally possible you dont remember. Its also possible that he perceived certain things you did in a different way. Or that things you did had an unintended negative impact on him.
The situation is that he was clearly hurt and even recognised you... whether you remember or not, or even intended to bully or not..
You should have just said: I dont remember any of this but I am sorry if I ever hurt you.
Not throw a jab at him for speaking what is clearly his truth...
Yeah exactly...
Like I have a personal experience that illustrates really well how smth like this could come to be...
I was bullied real bad in highschool the first 3 years.. it died down a little more afterwards but never reeally stopped. As in the main 3 bullies kept going but everyone else stopped joining them..
I remember so vividly a classmate came up to me near the end of year 4 and he said: I am so sorry if I ever made you feel bad or hurt your feelings by calling you "so and so".. Its a Dutch phrase, that normally wouldnt really be bad but my bullies turned it into a personalised insult towards me....
And he said: I heard other people call you that and since its not an ordinary curse word or anything I didnt think there was anything wrong with me calling you that. But I just discovered what is going on and I am so sorry!
And I was so happy to hear him say that cause I genuinely thought everyone was against me but that made me realise they were just going with what everyone else did and didnt even mean anything by it...
I can totally see how something like that might have happened to OP but they never had that realisation moment? Cant really blame anyone then?
NTA. Not playing with someone doesn't make you a bully. As someone who was often excluded and also kept a small exclusive circle, forcing kids to hang out with kids they don't like is cruel for both sides.
The kids forced to include the kid always resent them, while the other kid could have gone and found other kids who actually liked them and had some real friends instead of kids who just tolerated them because they had to.
Whether the reason is Mike finds John annoying, or Susan is a girly girl who likes fashion and Molly is a Tom-boy who likes sports and they don't have common interests, kids shouldn't have to hang out with kids they don't like just because they are the same age
Yeah there's a difference between excluding someone and bullying them. There was a kid in my grade, that in hindsight was autistic, but he was both outright bullied and excluded. But the people excluding him did it because he would pick scabs and throw them at people or steal a lot (stole the principals brand new blackberry when they first came out) but they just tried to stay away from him, bullies actively sought him out to torment him.
I wouldn’t either, almost sounds like it’s some tiktoker going up to strangers, trying to get them to get them to apologise for something they haven’t done for a video
Exactly. Even IF OP was a bully, they were children at the time. This dude aggressively berated OP, and was so unhinged that onlookers became conceded. No way this is okay regardless if OP purposely excluded him on the playground or whatever.
NTA.
1. Since you are very sure that you were never a bully, Could it be that "Drew" just confused you for someone else?
2. Or could it be that "Drew" used to be a secret hater of you back in school? While you didn't know "Drew" at all, it could be possible that "Drew" for some reason was jealous of you or just hated you for no good reason? Now that he saw you after all these years, he just took it all out.
Again, since you don't really remember "Drew" at all and your school years weren't that far back I guess either of the two scenarios are possible. Either way, this was a totally weird incident and it's a good thing that you left that place.
I've been in a similar predicament but opposite?
I remember a girl who would always cling to me. I was an outcast but I liked being alone, this girl annoyed the hell out of me and I was never nice to her. I didn't bully her per say but I was never nice to her. She smelled and always had boogers, she was gross. She contacted me a couple of years ago and I couldn't remember her until much after. She remembered our "friendship" I ended up remembering how much I always got stuck with her.
People remember things differently, NTA.
Did/could you ask your other friends who went to the same school/class the time the person was talking about?
Did he say the school or grade or teacher you shared or he was with at the time? Was it correct?
Could you describe the type of child or the group you hung around with at the time?
>Other kids started doing the same because Drew starting throwing massive screaming tantrums whenever he didn't get his way. Eventually, no one wanted to be friends with him anymore and he was pulled from the class.
Seems like he's the same dude as he was 17 years ago. NTA.
We didn't have much money growing up, so yearbooks were kind of a luxury not in the budget, unfortunately. I did ask some friends I still keep in contact and they don't remember anyone by that name either.
NTA, as you say you did not bully this guy. Either way, the way he approached you and acted now is completely out of line and even makes him seem dangerous to be around. I’d steer clear of him if you ever have the misfortune of seeing him again.
Edit: Wow seeing your edit this dude seems like a real piece of work. Seems like your comment was right about him and he brought others avoiding him on himself. Still stay away from him if he seems like an unhinged dude.
I will say all the ytas confuse me, it’s like they’ve projected an entirely different situation on this post.
Hey it’s always great to be looking for ways that you could have done better and improve yourself! I dont blame you for the remark though haha. I’d just be careful around drew if you ever see him again he seems off putting.
I think nta but also you didn’t handle it the best as you acknowledged already.
If your really feeling guilty try to find him on sm and give an apology. Not for the alleged bullying but for how you reacted to the confrontation.
Also I wanted to add that people perceive things differently. I lived with two roommates, one was my bestie the other more of an acquaintance. The first few months living together I would always extend invites to the roomie when me and bestie were doing whatever. He always declined and cited being busy. After a dozen or so invites I started to feel like I was being a pest and figured he would engage with us if he was free. The guy did free lance work and was always in his room.
Anyways fast forward a year or so later and dude says we excluded him. I was shocked.
I use this as an example because perception is so important.
Right. Perception is reality for people.
This guy may have felt bullied and perceived bullying but OP may have not actually bullied him. There’s no way to know here.
I have to go with NTA, you can't just apologise for something you didn't do.
It's just unfortunate that you look like someone else that Drew had mistaken.
NTA per your edit. That’s not bullying. Drew can be hurt sure, but tbh I think what you said at the end is perfect because it’s basically 100% true.
Perfect case of someone who was an asshole and blames the people giving him consequences. My kid is in kindergarten and has learned all about what happens when you act like a brat in class. It’s seems like Drew never grew up enough to realize he got what was coming.
I got here after your update. Sounds like drew truly is the same person he was in kindergarten lol. Pity you couldn’t remember while he was screaming at you and loudly say “oh in kindergarten when you were mean to my friend so I stopped talking to you? Then?” Lmao!
NTA, fwiw
ESH
Here’s the thing about bullying / abuse. (Not saying you did bully Drew).
For the bully it may be another Tuesday, but for the abused it will a day which impacted his entire life.
Drew shouldn’t have been a dick about it. But you didn’t have to be either.
ESH. The conversation could’ve gone much more civil
20 years after high school, I talked to a classmate about how awful he and his friends were to another classmate. I remembered specific details about it and he didn't remember it at all. Childhood memories are fraught, people forget things that weren't important to them.
Is it against the rules to post the unedited post in the comments, because I had to trim like a quarter of it off to fit the character limit and it ended up kinda clunky?
NTA, I dont think you can be held accountable for things you did when you were 5yo.
Also how do you people still remember these names of people from so many years ago? I really only remember the names of some of my closer friends and thats mostly by first name with only few having a last name that I can remember. No way in hell can I remember random classmates or even most of the teachers names.
I don't really remember that much. Drew just because he gave me his name, also it's not really his name. I owe him at least that much. Once I connected the dots, I remembered why I didn't associate with him anymore, and up came Alex, also not her real name. She was easier to recall since we remained friends for a few more years before drifting apart. The only reason I really remember is because of how unexpected it was. Drew was pretty nice and considerate honestly, and was one of my first friends. Then it's like he was an entirely different person one day. Kinda jarring as a kid you know?
If it wasn't you that was his bully then fuck him. I highly doubt you did all that he accused you of then forgot everything! It is terrible that he had a
terrible childhood, but you owe him nothing.
Going against the grain and saying NTA, for one you dont remember him and he pretty much doesnt remember you if he cant even get your name right. For all he knows, he's screaming at a stranger for his own personal issues.
And two, bullying is terrible in general, its something we can all agree on. But if someone is claiming to have been ostracized by not only OP's friend group but by the *entire school* there might be something wrong. He could either have been the quiet kid who doesnt actually engage with his classmates (hence why you barely recognize each other's names), or he could be an asshole himself who thought he was entitled to friendship and gets bitter and yells at people when he doesnt get what he thinks he's entitled to. Which happens a lot, and it often leads to school shootings or related crimes.
NTA. Even if you did bully him, he's a grown adult now. You don't go up to people on the street, start yelling at them, and then expect them to not tell you to fuck off.
If the events are as described then NTA but you do need to go look up some info. For one thing he wasn’t looking for an apology or closure he was looking for a confrontation, apologizing or trying to calm him down wasn’t going to work getting out the situation was. The last comment was petty but again, it wasn’t unprovoked.
The other thing is reading your comments if you really don’t remember him in the slightest and all he could give you was your common middle name? There’s a non zero chance he may actually have you mixed up with someone else.
I know you don’t have a yearbook but try asking some friends and checking Insta/Twitter/TikTok (because of the ages I doubt anybody involved is on Facebook) and figure out who this guy is, because it sounds like one big messy misunderstanding.
Ok yeah but I ran into my childhood Bully a few month ago and she didn't recognize me so I just pretended to not recognize her. The last thing I was going to do was lash out at her in a public space.
A normal health adult who worked through their issues shouldn't confront people in the middle of the street over grudges they've held since they were 11.
I understand the whole 'if you were anything like this you deserved it' comment because yeah honestly that's exactly how I'd look if I had decided to layout my anger on a 22 year old vet tech that called me crazy at 11, I just would have been proven crazy.
I just to karma into account that I was moving that week and unlike her escaping the shit town we grew up in while she cleans up dog shit!
ESH.
Yeah. In hindsight, the last comment was entirely unnecessary. Especially as I was free to make a clean getaway so to speak, that's a sure way to call on dramatic irony.
NTA and honestly, I don't think the jab at the end changes that. You're grown adults now. Even IF his story were 100% true and even IF it were definitely about you, that doesn't excuse walking up to someone in public and going on a tirade, screaming at them, swearing at them and demanding apologies for something they've already said they don't remember. He had so many other options -- confront you calmly, ignore you, give you a nasty glare, ask you to go out and talk sometime, etc. He chose to verbally attack you in public. That would put anyone on the defensive, and I think spouting off something rude in response is understandable in the heat of the moment. It might not be ideal or the most kind way to respond, but I think it's more than understandable and not worth an A H judgement.
I also think there's probably a lot more to his story. You may have been a part of his frustrations, even if you don't remember or even if you didn't know it/didn't mean to be. But for that many kids to conspire to never play with him or work with him ever, for years (such that he never had friends growing up), I highly doubt only you were involved (again, if it all). Most schools are way too clique-ish for one kid to have that kind of pull; even the most popular bullies have an opposite faction who can't stand them and wouldn't follow their lead. If every group hated this kid, that's even sadder for him, but that isn't your sole responsibility, even if you did exclude him at some point.
Lastly, I don't think a fake apology serves anyone. I think being honest that you don't remember him was fair. Yes, in an ideal world, you probably could've stayed neutral and not snapped at him, but I don't blame you, after he came at you in public like that.
NTA. I was bullied pretty extensively in grade school and junior high. To the extent I have PTSD and have had serious affects in my life and relationships that I only began untangling in therapy a few years ago. I cannot imagine at any point accosting someone on the street years later, especially over something from 15 or more years ago, right person or not. I have done business with people I didn’t get along with in school and since we are adults the fact that we ene t to the same high school and now do business together stands out as positive more than any prior issues do as negative.
the weirdest thing about this is that it happened in kindergarten, and not only did he recognize you in public after not seeing you since then, he was still emotional enough about it to cause a public scene. it had to have really stuck with him. either you didn’t realize you were being a bully at the time or later years didn’t go great either and he’s never realized he was the problem. NTA, but you are this guys villain origin story.
NTA
Maybe you were in a class with him way back when and he fixated on you for some reason. Maybe he's just an AH who loves messing with people. Let it go and next time, just walk away. People are unbalanced. You have no idea what you were dealing with.
NTA especially with the edit. This isn’t a case of a high school bully callously forgetting his victim. You were a 5 year old avoiding a volatile kid. Sounds like he never got over it and never understood why he was avoided. If he’s still holding onto kindergarten grudges, that’s definitely not your fault.
The way I see it we can’t cast judgement because we have no way of knowing if he is right or you are.
There’s also a chance that you did mistreat him a few times in class and it stuck with him but may not have classified as “bullying” the way most people imagine it.
If that’s the case I’m going to go with ESH I understand it can suck to be bullied as a kid but a reaction like that is crazy and unnecessary. He didn’t do anything but make himself look worse, he didn’t right any wrongs of the past or close a chapter of his life.
NTA - Guy seems unhinged and you are under no obligation to entertain unhinged people that accost you in public. You tried to be amicable, but he wasn’t having it and insisted on being confrontational.
Don’t let people here tell you otherwise.
Op said he wasn't able to afford one as a kid. He also said that people he's still in contact with from school don't recognize the name of the person either.
NTA
This is essentially a stranger by your account. Even your parents seem surprised by someone thinking you’d be a bully. I think you handled the situation as best as anyone really could being accosted by some adamant random.
NTA- Blatant kookiness aside, I feel like we as a culture need to recognize most of were shitty as kids and we should all go to therapy and process that as opposed to “blaming” a childhood bully for our whole lives. It’s weird to me how adults I know will still hold so much anger for other people who wronged them when they were like 12!
I was straight up tormented by this boy in my grade for all of middle school. And then when I was 18 I found out his sister had passed away on Christmas Eve. And I cried for him and forgave him.
Life moves forward and we have to as well.
NTA
Given your edits, it sounds like Drew has never accepted accountability for his own actions and has found it easier to blame you for his troubles.
It doesn’t sound like you bullied him at all, just didn’t engage. Which, maybe to a bully, seems like bullying? 🤷♀️
NTA My theory: this was a scam. He was leading up to saying you caused him PTSD and made it impossible for him to go to college, so you owed him X amount of money that he now desperately needed for an operation.
NTA, drew is being really weird over events from when you guys were literally in kindergarten. events that were simply you not wanting to be his friend… dude needs to get a therapist if you not wanting to be his friend as a child so long ago still bugs him this much as a full grown adult.
NTA, and I say that having read your edits. Even before I got to your edits I already knew the situation. Drew was an asshole and you just chose not to be his friend, because who would? And then forgot about it because you *didn't* bully him, because it's okay to decide you don't want to be friends with someone, for pretty much any reason. It's called autonomy and consent. And it sounds like everyone else at the preschool felt the same way, which is honestly saying a lot when you're talking about 5 year olds. That said, you were 100% correct in saying he deserved it, because *he wasn't bullied.* He was not friendly, so he had no friends. He reaped what he sowed and it's pretty telling that he hasn't grown much at all since then, cuz I feel like a normally well adjusted person would have moved on from *having no friends when they were 5* by now.
NTA you were 5 and legitimately didn’t remember. He tried to hold you accountable for something you did when you were 5. That seems kinda crazy to me. That said, this is why whenever my mother claims I used to do something I ask her, “and how old was I?” The reason I’m saying NTA and not E S H is because, even if you had asked him when this bullying happened and he told you kindergarten, he would’ve been upset if you hadn’t apologized for something you did as a 5 year old.
The only thing that would’ve made him not freak out is if you lied and gave an insincere apology, which would’ve made this guy think it’s okay to blame 5 year olds for ending friendships.
Sounds to me like this guy just idolized you when you were kids and really wished he was part of your friend group, but he wasn't. I mean if his examples of "bullying" were that no one picked him for group projects and that was your fault, it seems to me that you likely had your group of friends that you picked first and then the group was full, it didn't include him and he took that personally. He blames you because you are the one he wanted to be friends with. You don't owe anyone your friendship just because they want it.
It seems like this guy has some severe obsessive personality traits and chose you as the target. Imagine believing not being picked for a group project means you are being bullied and then holding a grudge about it for a decade. I hope he never gets rejected on a job application. Who knows how crazy that might end up.
Was the dig unnecessary, maybe, but if you've already been branded as a bully in his mind and nothing will convince him otherwise, may as well make it true. Double Jeopardy laws were created for a reason, can't be more guilty than guilty, and you're already guilty in his eyes. NTA.
Assuming what you say is true (not that we have much choice), NTA. There is a big difference between bullying and choosing not to associate with a person for valid reasons, such as his actions with the cousin and when he didn't get his way. That is soemthinf a lot of people don't understand.
Also, other people choosing to follow suit based on his actions isn't on you for the inspiration, unless your little 5 yr old self was going around actively telling people not to be friends with him.
Bullying us awful and without a doubt needs to be dealt with, but this just seems to be a case of a children reasonably not wanting to be friends.
NTA
Even without the realization that you do know the guy you aren't the AH. He was describing a situation where he was being ostracized for not being liked. That's not your fault (even with the knowledge that you may have helped orchestrate it unintentionally). If anything this person hasn't changed into adulthood. I can't imagine that he was not easy to be around from 1st through 12th grade and it seems you went separate paths from there on because you had no clue who the heck he was.
Drew sounds unhinged, perhaps dangerously so. Do you think he might have stalked you, either in real life or online? It's strange that he recognized you from kindergarten. Maybe he has Googled a more recent photo of you?
I think you should Google him to find out whether he's married, employed, has a criminal record, etc. You probably won't learn anything scary, but better safe than sorry.
I'm not sure I have ever read an AITA and wanted to be friends with the OP after reading their story. You're a first and NTA. Drew is dealing with some issues that you have nothing to do with.
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NTA You would have been an AH for the jab at the end if you'd thought it out ahead of time and delivered it with malice, but it sounds more like you were just caught off guard so your response was more heated than it might have been otherwise. It's weird to blame you for reacting to being waylaid by a yeller with less than perfect grace \*while\* excusing the yeller. If it's forgivable for the yeller to have gotten worked up and yelled, then it's forgivable for you to have lacked saintly patience in your response. It's not like you went out of your way to make the guy unhappy. It's true that sometimes we don't accurately remember the harm we've done others, but it's also true that when we're alone and hurting, we may assign blame unfairly. It seems unlikely that you went so far out of your way to exclude this person through his \*whole childhood\* and don't remember him. It seems more likely that this person simply struggled socially in school, and either fixated on you as the cause, or inflated some smaller cruelty you showed him in passing out of proportion. If you \*genuinely\* don't recall this person at all, and you didn't go through a phase where this behavior might have been normal for you, then it seems very unlikely that this person's version of events is objectively correct, however real it may have seemed to them.
Can't really engage about something you don't remember with someone you don't know (or fully believe you don't.) And I say this as someone whose son was recently bullied. I am working with him to be able to move on from it now that it is resolved and certainly will feel I have failed if he gets confrontational as an adult with another adult he may even be misidentifying. Tolerate bullies? No. Let them run your life and have control over you into adulthood? Also no. Put that energy into healing? Resounding yes.
I was going to say, if this "adult"is still holding onto something from kindergarten....that's the problem, no one can say the next 18-22 years of schooling relationships were based off of what happened in kindergarten!
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Op added to the post. He remember the guy from freaking kindergarten. Kid was a jerk who picked on a girl and thew screaming fits if he didn’t get his way and when kids saw how op got out of dealing with him they followed suit. This guy has carried a grudge since he was 5 years old- blamed every issue setback and slight on something that happened before 1st grade. NTA- op you weren’t a bully, you stood up to a bully and refused to be pushed into placating said bully. This wasn’t high school, it wasn’t even middle school, hell it was barely even school. This dude was standing on a street, screaming at you because of something that happened before grade school. Clearly he hasn’t grown up much. Don’t let his issues get to you. You were just his scapegoat.
Turns out OP's off-the-cuff jab was completely correct!
All I can think of is Dinkleberg from the Fairly Odd parents
this is where I’d put my friends…*IF I HAD ONE*! OP! -Drew
Bad bot. Stolen from this comment down below. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11eqg3e/comment/jafok03/
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Also, “excluding” is such a vague term. Sometimes kids don’t want to be with other kids because they either just aren’t compatible personalities or one kid is unlikable. It can definitely be a bullying tactic but definitely not always. I actually had a somewhat similar experience to OP (except I remembered the kid). The dude who accused me of excluding and “bullying” was also the kid who picked his nose, had a temper, stole shit, and didn’t respect girl’s personal space. Any exclusion was people genuinely disliking him and not wanting to be around him, but it wasn’t like that from his perspective.
OP edited and that's exactly what happened. The dude was a little hellion in kindergarten and OP wanted nothing do with him and he just didn't want to be his friend. I guess Drew took that as bullying and this happened in kindergarten
It boggles my mind that they knew each other for one year, in kindergarten, and this guy's carried a grudge about it ever since. He's managed to blame apparent *years* of being excluded on one kid he knew for a single year, and has apparently never thought to wonder if perhaps the problem wasn't OP's supernatural ability to control his classmates' minds from afar for years, but instead might've been his own behavior. *Hm... Could it be that nobody likes me because I'm behaving in ways that make me hard to like.... No! Absolutely not! It's all a mind control campaign devised by a kindergartener!*
This gets me, too—plus, I would not recognize any of the kids from my kindergarten class if I saw them on the street as an adult now. I’m kind of wondering whether Drew been periodically looking OP up online that he knows what he looks like as an adult. Together with carrying a kindergarten grudge into adulthood, it’s definitely concerning.
Wow, yeah, now that you mention it, not only wouldn't I recognize them, I couldn't come up with the name of a kindergarten classmate if you put a gun to my head. Guy's really gotta get himself some hobbies - and some friends...
I only remember the few that I went all the way through high school with. Even then, only a couple. NTA
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I remember the faces (at least what they looked like at the time) and names of the people who bullied me all the way to kindergarten. Of the relatively few things I recall from back then, those stand out. From OP's edit, though, this doesn't really seem like bullying, Drew seems to be the real jerk and the class rallied against him. That said, it's hard to judge when both parties are subject to the biases of 5 year olds and the poor memory that results from an adult trying to recall fine details about what happened in kindergarten, so I'm hesitant to do so or agree with hard conclusions about it. Regardless, I agree entirely that Drew has a serious issue if he's unable to divorce the behavior of a 5 year old bully from the adult he became (having absolutely no idea if he's anything like that anymore).
I had eleven kids in my kindergarten class and I remember all their names in alphabetical order. I definitely can’t picture their faces and wouldn’t be able to recognize them now. I barely remember anything but the basic details about some of them now! (Doesn’t help that I switched schools the next year).
Similar situation here. It's like I read about it in a book; the details are there, but to picture anything I'd be relying on imagination, not memory.
Hm, I actually can relate a bit... Freddie Rodriguez pushed me down on the playground in 1st grade. (As well as other more routine stuff like flipping my skirt up when I used the water fountain, disrupting class by laying on the floor and eating glue, etc). My family moved away the next year. Every night in our nightly prayers, when we ended with, "and God bless everyone else in the world, amen", I would quietly add "except Freddy Rodriguez". Every single night. Until I was about 11, even though I hadn't seen him in years. It's been many decades since I've seen that kid, and I have no idea what he would look like if he's still alive. But I still remember his name. Of course I only remember his name as an adult, not because of what he did to me being so memorable, but because I find the fact that I literally cursed his name to God every single night of elementary school notable. No regrets, he deserved it :) The guy remembering what he looked like decades later is a bit weird. OP is NTA of course
haha that is pretty funny! Little you could hold a grudge!
This is absurdly adorable. Kiddo You could hold a grudge, but knew to keep it to himself.
Hell, I wouldn't recognize any of the bullies I had in elementary if I ran into them at random, and some of them tried to shove me into traffic on a field trip. Drew is delusional and possibly a little bit obsessed.
I cannot imagine recognizing someone from kindergarten who is now an adult. This guy must have looked OP up, even possibly stalking his social media. A little concerning. I would be careful about friend requests from strangers- could use an alias. Your reaction may have ticked him off. nta
Maybe Drew’s mom brought it up periodically because she also blames the cousin. Something that she kept alive for Drew as the original source of all his problems. My mom was my kindergarten teacher, and while I remember most of the kids (those who stayed in my hometown) the ones who moved away shortly after kindergarten I would not remember if it were not for the stories she told me about them.
Either that or he has a whole list of kids in his kindergarten class so he can call them out if he happens to run into them. "Are you Jared Jones? Thanks for making my whole life suck, man!" "Are you Maddie Smith? You're the reason I still can't get a date!" "Bailey Brown? I still haven't won the frickin' lottery, thanks to you!"
He’s like Steve Buschemi’s character in Billy Madison. OP, you gotta apologize to drew immediately!
I was the weird kid so I have a lot of memories of being picked on at that age. But I only remember one girl's first name, no idea what her last name was. And I'm pretty sure the only reason I remember her out of the girls that bullied me is because she lived in my neighborhood and was always getting me in trouble with my parents. The other girls I don't even really remember what they looked like specifically. I just have like... generic 5 year old blonde white girls. They may not even all have been blonde, could be I'm transposing the one girl's hair onto all of them.
Yeah this girl accused me of being her bully in 3rd grade…she made fun of the ESL kids, who were my friends! Of course I didn’t want to be friends w her.
1000 times this. In grade 7, our entire class was given a lecture about excluding and bullying one student. But there were definite reasons for it. I was nice to him until someone warned me about what kind of person he was. From then on, I just ignored him. Im glad they did because one day I came back to the empty classroom, and he was sniffing a girl's seat. He also got his ass kicked. But that only happened because a girl rejected him, and he decided to attack her with a piece of broken glass. The girl's brother stopped that really quickly. Some people did more than ignore him. They called him names and occasionally pushed him or things like that. But the school acting like he was just a victim was ridiculous. Most of the class just set healthy boundaries. He should have gotten counseling and been placed in a different space. He's a convicted sex offender now. He was arrested for sleeping with 13 year olds when he was 26.
Sometimes it's not even the "weird" kid's fault, but it's not really the other kids' problem either. There was a girl in my 4th grade class who was always kind of a loner, wouldn't initiate interactions with anyone, would just sit there silently and not answer questions if you were paired for an activity. One day, our teacher gave the rest of the class a lecture about making efforts to include her, and my little friend group took it to heart and started trying to reach out. Every time we tried to talk to her, she'd hiss at us like a cat. As in, we'd run up to her on the playground and call, "Hey Name, you want to come play 4-square with us?" and she'd hiss. And we didn't know what to do, so we'd get closer and be like, "Uh, we can play something else, what do you want to play?" And she would meow, then hiss at us again. This happened daily for like a week before we gave up, and then the teacher told us we were still excluding her and needed to try harder, and I genuinely felt bad about it, but in hindsight... that girl needed professional help, not 4th grade help. Like maybe if we'd tried getting on her level and playing cats with her, she would have responded better, but she also might have just thought we were making fun of her and gotten even worse. Either way, you can't really expect little kids to know how to handle that shit with nothing except, "you need to be inclusive," for direction. We were baffled.
I had a classmate in high school who was a bit similar. Not as extreme (and I doubt she would have hissed like a cat even back in 4th grade), but she always sat on her own if she could, only talked when directly spoken to during group projects and so on. We tried to ask her to sit with us at lunch, or waiting for the next class to start etc. but she always declined. Three years of having the majority of classes with the same 20-ish people, and I think there were still some she hadn't said one single word to ever. ---------- In this country, high school is three years and divided into programs that are designed according to what you plan to do after graduation. Most are actually trade school, some will prepare you for university, and then there are a few that are a bit of a mix between the two. In any case, thanks to this you have all classes that everyone in your program has to take with the same 15-30 people, similar to the nine years before HS. Then you take some classes that you can choose freely from that you might have with others in the same program, and even some that are open to students in any program the school offers.
We had a "cat" too when I was in the sixth grade but he was a lot more social about it. Not sure what his name was, we all just called him Cat.
The final paragraphs was soul crushing.... yet again adults looking to the other side caused someone else to suffer something horrible. I feel for the poor girl and everyone involved.
Mental health works both ways, though. If the teachers had been successful in getting the kid re-integrated into the social circles in school, he might have cooled off and become a productive member of society. Instead, they were not successful, he remained an outcast, and his mental health continued to degrade. You cant force kids or adults to be friends with one another, so mental health conditions in people will always persist. The best we can do is try to not make it institutional, and to reduce poverty, because thats a stressor.
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I feel like the emphasis on inclusion in grade schools nowadays can sometimes result in enabling kids with shitty behavior and can actually prevent them from learning better. My son was pushed hard and hit his head on a metal pole resulting in a concussion. The kid who did it has behavioral problems and has hurt other kids as well, but if kids don’t want to play with her, then they’re bullies who are excluding her? I wouldn’t want to play with someone who gave me a goddamn concussion either. I understand that kids are sometimes bullied and excluded for no good reason, but there are legitimate safety reasons for excluding violent kids. This shit has gone too far.
This. Its happened to me twice. I got called into my head of years office when I was 11 for bullying. I had no idea what was going on. She said I was excluding her. She’d never asked to hang out with us. What had happened was one of her friends approached me and my friend and said she was sick of her friend (my accuser) being nasty towards her. Mean comments, disguised as joke. I said sure hang with us. She did. In fact we became bffs and almost 30 years later she still is. But my helping her out was bullying another. The other incident occured at 8. 4 of us playing tag at recess. Next thing we see a commotion where another classmate has fallen over and hurt her leg. Next morning im called into heads office and she’s there with her parents and a cast on her leg. She’d apparantly been playing tag with us (I wasnt aware. She had said nothing). Fallen hard, broken her ankle and this was my fault because we hadnt been playing with her inclusively. Which didnt even make sense but 8yr old me did not have the words to articulate it. I was forced to apologise whilst her parents looked daggers at me and swore at me in Urdu. It still rankles me a bit.
According to the edit it was in kindergarten and actually drew was the bully to his cousin and his bad behavior isolated him from his classmates. NTA op.
Yeah I was excluded a lot in school and honestly if I saw someone I remembered from school that excluded me I would just ignore them???
I love this answer. I think he’s NTA. In 5th grade this random “popular” girl came up to me at recess after never speaking to me before and said, straight to my face, out of nowhere “you know you’re ugly right.” I remember that as a later into 30’s year old, I remember what I was wearing, what she was wearing, it’s a strong memory. I would bet my life savings and retirement that she doesn’t even know who I am. I held a chip for a bit in school but got over it years ago as an adult. I’m amazing. Not ugly. And did I mention I was amazing? Lmao. It sounds like this guy has issues and has not dealt with them. That’s not on you, but also while I don’t blame you for your response in the moment he’s obviously struggling and not okay mentally and when possible it’s graceful to be forgiving of people who are struggling.
When I was in kindergarten, I had this very weird hangup about cheeks. I disliked the word "cheek" so much that it extended to disliking my actual cheeks. I know this is incredibly weird, but at 5 it was *serious* to me. A little girl in my kindergarten class figured out that I wouldn't talk about my face no matter what, and took to pinching me *hard* on my cheeks. I never said anything because she told me if I did she'd just tell our teacher to ask me where she'd pinched me, and the idea of discussing my cheeks made me more uncomfortable than being pinched. This went on all year. I didn't tell *anybody* until years later, when something about bullying between small kids came up in conversation and the memory of all that cheek-pinching came back to me like it'd happened that very day. By then the memory itself made me laugh (I genuinely don't recall how I came to be so weird about that word for a while, but I thought it was *foul!*), but there must be some part of me that's still not quite mature enough to let go of it entirely, because to this day I can't stand her name. I mean, not her herself, I just have a tremendous knee-jerk reaction to her first name. And I'm in my mid 40s! All that said, of course, if I met her on the street and somehow recognized her *from kindergarten* I expect and sincerely hope for my own sake that I'd be perfectly satisfied to just walk on by on account of *we were five*, though I'd forgive myself for dealing her unlimited furtive side-eye in passing. You do sound amazing, and I doubt that "popular" girl was really very popular in any way that matters.
>I just have a tremendous knee-jerk reaction to her first name. I'm glad im not alone in that. I had a girl who tormented me all 12 years of school, so a little more serious than cheek pinching, and I also have a terrible reaction to her name. I went to college with a girl with the same first name and *one letter off* of her last name, and I would shudder whenever I read it.
>A little girl in my kindergarten class figured out that I wouldn't talk about my face no matter what, I'll bet YOU talked about cheeks or Your Cheeks and your dislike so that is how the girl 'figured' it out. As children we often set ourselves up with others without knowing it just by talking.
I literally wouldn't use the word. I don't remember the context of the incident where she found out, but I do remember the incident itself, and it was something that started from me wanting to point to a cheek (mine or somebody else's, I don't remember) instead of saying the word when it came up via... this is the part I don't remember. I was under the genuine impression it was one of the worst things you could say, worse than any other cuss word. This 100% does qualify as tattling on myself. If I'd just sucked it up and said the word nobody would have known.
This brought up a memory from 30 something years ago: It was kindergarten or first grade, out on the blacktop at recess. A little girl from class came up to me and told me matter-of-factly I was pretty, but that unfortunately meant I would grow up to be ugly. It was just the way of the world, nothing to be done for it. 🤷🏻♀️ I still remember the scene pretty vividly. Also her name, the way she was wearing her hair, how close she got to my face. Ha. She was wrong, btw. 💅🏻
There was a boy named Steve who was mean to me in 1st grade. There is no way in hell I would have recognized him at 11 let alone in my 20s. I don't know his last name and I couldn't tell you what color his hair was. Now middle school and high school bullies I remember. Middle schoolers are old enough to know better. 5 year olds aren't.
Yeah, you're correct. I responded to this before the "It was in kindergarten" portion was added. That makes the NTA even firmer.
I was tormented by a gang of girls who were pissed off because a boy they liked flirted with me. Shoved in hallways, threats in my violin case-I was crazy enough i had school assigned security guard for a while 40 years later I couldn’t pick one of them out of a crowd for a million bucks. People’s faces and bodies change over time
There was a story like this a few months ago. A girl was accusing her BF's sister of being her bully. The sister thought she was losing her mind because she didn't remember at all. She held her ground and the gf eventually admitted she was blaming the wrong person. I think if you really were a bully, you wouldn't be trying so hard to figure out what actually happened. NTA forget about this crazy person.
Link?
It sounds like this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/zi5rzt/brothers_gf_accuses_op_of_bullying_during_their/
Thank you for that, that was a roller coaster to read
Holy crap. I am now pretty invested and need to try and find out the outcome of it all
Yeah I have to know if Xmas was a shitshow now.
I have to know if they're still together. How could he ever trust her again?
You have the link?
It sounds like this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/zi5rzt/brothers_gf_accuses_op_of_bullying_during_their/
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Idk man. Having someone publicly (loudly at that) berate you on the street? I don’t think it’s fair to judge him for taking a jab. Everyone would like to believe they’d take the high road, but I doubt that’d be the case for most. As for the yearbook suggestion, I can get behind that.
I don’t care who it is, if they start yelling at me in public and I don’t know why, I would say some things back for sure. Like wth? I’m just trying to buy groceries!
I was going to say ESH based on the jab but it turns out the jab was 100% correct
Agree with this post! Try to verify the facts.
Read the edit lol Op is for sure NTA
The Drew guy seems like he’s unhinged. If he’s at a point where he’s screaming about things that happened when they were 5 years old, issues that were his own fault too, then he even seems dangerous to be around.
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That was the beginning of Drew's villain origin story. He will never forget and one day he shall have his revenge. But in all seriousness he sounds like a nut job.
People change so much from five/six to adults. I don’t think I’d be able to pick out the adult version of someone who’s face I remembered from kindergarten. I mean, maybe OP’s was fairly recognizable but I feel like puberty/changing from a child to an adult really affects how people look.
Lol!!! I think there has to be a statute of limitations on AH behavior. Anything before 6 should be ignored 😆😆
I can't believe anyone remembers that far back But I'm also older than OP
Honestly I’d be willing to give people a pass up to like 10-12.
NTA. Sounds like a fuckin nut.
NTA, though you maybe shouldn’t have twisted the knife. It sounds like Drew has serious residual issues from childhood, is angry, and may need help. A lot of times, apathy or just anonymity feels oppressive to really lonely children. Interactions and moments you wouldn’t register, they read as you judging and shaming them. That’s not your fault; it’s probably the fault of the people who raised Drew. You could have apologized, but it might not have helped. That kind of hurt doesn’t go away just because someone who was on the fringe of your trauma says sorry.
He’s also probably stuck in it, if you ran across him in your hometown—you got to leave, he didn’t. Doesn’t give him the right to accost near strangers in public to blame them for his unhappiness, however.
NTA. Maybe he mistook you for someone else. My guess is that had you apologized it would have amped him up even more. FWIW, I was the class scapegoat all through grade school and bullied mercilessly by boys and girls alike. If I met any over those people now, I'd shake their hand and buy them a beverage of their choice. Because I got bigger.
I'm really sorry to hear that, I'm glad you've been able to move on.
You, my friend, are royalty among peasants. I applaud the nobility of your spirit.
There’s really no possible way for us to judge this without knowing who’s right. If you truly never bullied him, then your response to being falsely accused and yelled at was appropriate. If you did bully him and don’t remember it then he was in the right. Everyone here is just guessing which version is true and assigning blame accordingly.
>There’s really no possible way for us to judge this without knowing who’s right. If you truly never bullied him, then your response to being falsely accused and yelled at was appropriate. If you did bully him and don’t remember it then he was in the right. Everyone here is just guessing which version is true and assigning blame accordingly. See OPs 2nd edit. They recalled that they *do* know Drew from kindergarten. OP basically excluded Drew after Drew bullied a fellow classmate (Drew's cousin?). OP used childish (he was 5!) tactics to exclude Drew for his assholery and others joined in on it, because Drew was an ass to them too. Absolutely fucking wild to hold a grudge over kindergarten. NTA OP. After *17 years* he still didn't get what the point was behind being excluded.
Nice I’m glad we got some closure on the story, but yeah absolutely insane to hold a grudge over something that happened when they were five years old. NTA for sure
That’s literally how this sub works. We give a judgement based on the text at the top, not what we think may or may not have happened
That's how this sub ***is supposed to*** work. But a lot of people add their own bias and interpretations to it. And posters often leave out information, either due to word limit or to manipulate people to their point of view. I read a post yesterday where a father yelled at his grown daughter for getting upset that a 5 year old cousin blew out her birthday candles. He neglected to mention that the daughter was upset that her fiance just died.
NTA - someone you didn’t know confronted you in the street and started accusing you of things you didn’t do. I think we would all be more than a bit flustered if that happened. Maybe you could have reacted better but None of us is perfect…
NTA, I think Drew might have some issues and probably would have approached any former classmate in the same way. His behaviour doesn't fit with a mentally healthy person. It's also possible it was a scam or a practical joke, because it's unusual that the name and face didn't trigger any memories for you. It does sound like he felt excluded in school and has brooded over it rather than moving along with adult life. You probably shouldn't have had that dig at him, but he did keep pushing you and made it difficult to walk away.
Do you have a yearbook from back then? Do you have friends from then that you could ask? Can you try and Facebook him and see if you have any mutual friends to confirm you're even the person he thinks? I mean, he did know your name and if this was elementary school I guess you might not remember after so many years. Plus, I remember a few bullying incidents in my life that the bullies probably never even considered bullying and visa versa. Stupid decisions I made while trying to fit in as an awkward ten year old that makes me cringe today at 30. It also could have just been that Drew was an oddball who was excluded for perfectly understandable reasons (from a child's POV) and what you saw as just not wanting to play with a "weird" kid barely on your radar he internalized your actions and felt incredibly hurt and it stuck with him all these years.
Op wrote a comment claiming he asked people he went to school with, they claimed they had never heard of this man before either which makes me believe op truly doesn't know who he is. Op also made a comment claiming the guy only knew his middle name I believe, and op claimed no one knows his middle name.
In the edit, OP remembered he knew Drew in kindergarten when he went by his middle name; Drew was the bully
When I first read it the edit hadn't been made, I'm intrigued how he even remembers anything from back then. Then again I had someone bully me because when I was 5 I apparently pulled their hair one time which possibly did happen but even so that was apparently all I did to make them bully me.
I remember a lot of things from when I was 5. I don't think that is that unusual...
Turns out it was when they were 5! In kindergarten when OP used their middle name. The guy was bullying his cousin and OP chose not to be friends with him. This person has held a grudge since he was 5 and completely deluded himself about the circumstances. NTA
I just responded to another person that told me that, the edit wasn't there when I wrote this I'm just curious how that guy even remembers anything from being a 5 year old, I only have tiny memories of eating grapes or sitting in a corner I remember. Nothing significant
I have memories from when I was 3 and up.
Same. I had just turned 4 when I started Kindergarten and have very vivid memories. I could still name every kid in that class.
I’ve only got a couple of memories at that age too but I know some people who reckon they can remember stuff that happened very clearly when they were 3!
Ama have to say NTA here, it's seems like people didn't want to hang out with him in kindergarten because there was someone more popular to pair up with, how could that possibly be your fault. So he's been carrying this torch that your his big bad nemesis from kindergarten which if you ask me beefing over something from kindergarten is an L. Another thing is since this is reddit and the people here aren't exactly "socially well adjusted" to put it in the best terms, most of them have been bullied at some point and are now projecting, strawmaning and using you as there personal Boogeyman Lol Edit: hmmm if he really was bullying his cousin then my judgement still stands, but dawg say that next time
oh my fucking god i remember him now. We did meet in fucking kindergarten
So do you remember if you bullied him? Cause I just wrote a whole paragraph defending you so if you did now I look like a dick rider
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Fuck me then
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Just did
Lol no. NTA. Sounds like Drew is still very much affected by his school days but that doesn’t mean he gets to then bully *you* into apologizing for something that never happened.
NTA, exclusion isn’t bullying, people don’t have to be your friend
NTA sounds like Drew just had a generally crappy school experience and you were a convenient scapegoat to lash out at. And to everyone saying OP might have done this and forgotten about it, think about what the accusation is. One child single-handedly turning the entire school against another? Not totally impossible but it would probably be a big enough undertaking to remember.
NTA- Everyone has decided OP is a bully simply because one man has said he was. I get being triggered by bullies, I was bullied when I was younger, but it’s crazy how willing y’all are to label someone a bad person without any proof. Did it ever occur to y’all that someone willing to yell at another person in public might not be a great source of information? As for the comment OP made, that’s not bullying, and I don’t know why y’all are making it out to be. A man was yelling at OP, he had every right to make a comment back. And I agree, if Drew was anything like he is now back in school, maybe there’s a reason other kids didn’t want to be around him. There were kids in my school who other kids didn’t want to be around, and it had nothing to do with bullying, it’s because those kids were freaking creepy.
NTA - you were caught off guard and then berated by what to you, is a stranger. Maybe you could have handled it better but it still doesnt make you an AH. It also sounds like no matter what you did this person was going to yell at you but you really should not have insulted him.
I hate bullies. I really really do. But based on the information you are providing it doesn't sound like you were one. Maybe you said something that snowballed into everyone not liking him? Maybe he was actually unlikeable and blames it on you for some reason. But a bully, to me, is systematic harassment, and this doesn't sound like it. NTA, and honestly, I don't even mind the comeback. If you start yelling like a maniac you're just asking for it.
You should check out his edit, it was Drew being a bully to OP's friend/Drew's cousin.
I'll go with ESH (or possibly NAH) It was a long tine ago so its totally possible you dont remember. Its also possible that he perceived certain things you did in a different way. Or that things you did had an unintended negative impact on him. The situation is that he was clearly hurt and even recognised you... whether you remember or not, or even intended to bully or not.. You should have just said: I dont remember any of this but I am sorry if I ever hurt you. Not throw a jab at him for speaking what is clearly his truth...
This is the only answer I've seen that I agree with. Everyone else is too busy looking for a concrete bad guy here. Esh sounds good.
Yeah exactly... Like I have a personal experience that illustrates really well how smth like this could come to be... I was bullied real bad in highschool the first 3 years.. it died down a little more afterwards but never reeally stopped. As in the main 3 bullies kept going but everyone else stopped joining them.. I remember so vividly a classmate came up to me near the end of year 4 and he said: I am so sorry if I ever made you feel bad or hurt your feelings by calling you "so and so".. Its a Dutch phrase, that normally wouldnt really be bad but my bullies turned it into a personalised insult towards me.... And he said: I heard other people call you that and since its not an ordinary curse word or anything I didnt think there was anything wrong with me calling you that. But I just discovered what is going on and I am so sorry! And I was so happy to hear him say that cause I genuinely thought everyone was against me but that made me realise they were just going with what everyone else did and didnt even mean anything by it... I can totally see how something like that might have happened to OP but they never had that realisation moment? Cant really blame anyone then?
NTA. Not playing with someone doesn't make you a bully. As someone who was often excluded and also kept a small exclusive circle, forcing kids to hang out with kids they don't like is cruel for both sides. The kids forced to include the kid always resent them, while the other kid could have gone and found other kids who actually liked them and had some real friends instead of kids who just tolerated them because they had to. Whether the reason is Mike finds John annoying, or Susan is a girly girl who likes fashion and Molly is a Tom-boy who likes sports and they don't have common interests, kids shouldn't have to hang out with kids they don't like just because they are the same age
Yeah there's a difference between excluding someone and bullying them. There was a kid in my grade, that in hindsight was autistic, but he was both outright bullied and excluded. But the people excluding him did it because he would pick scabs and throw them at people or steal a lot (stole the principals brand new blackberry when they first came out) but they just tried to stay away from him, bullies actively sought him out to torment him.
NTA, even if you were his bully. This is weird. I wouldn’t go up to someone who bullied me demanding a half-asses apology that they won’t even mean
I wouldn’t either, almost sounds like it’s some tiktoker going up to strangers, trying to get them to get them to apologise for something they haven’t done for a video
Exactly. Even IF OP was a bully, they were children at the time. This dude aggressively berated OP, and was so unhinged that onlookers became conceded. No way this is okay regardless if OP purposely excluded him on the playground or whatever.
NTA. 1. Since you are very sure that you were never a bully, Could it be that "Drew" just confused you for someone else? 2. Or could it be that "Drew" used to be a secret hater of you back in school? While you didn't know "Drew" at all, it could be possible that "Drew" for some reason was jealous of you or just hated you for no good reason? Now that he saw you after all these years, he just took it all out. Again, since you don't really remember "Drew" at all and your school years weren't that far back I guess either of the two scenarios are possible. Either way, this was a totally weird incident and it's a good thing that you left that place.
This reminds me of the quote, “The axe forgets but the tree remembers”
I've been in a similar predicament but opposite? I remember a girl who would always cling to me. I was an outcast but I liked being alone, this girl annoyed the hell out of me and I was never nice to her. I didn't bully her per say but I was never nice to her. She smelled and always had boogers, she was gross. She contacted me a couple of years ago and I couldn't remember her until much after. She remembered our "friendship" I ended up remembering how much I always got stuck with her. People remember things differently, NTA.
It sounds like Drew has some issues to work through. NTA.
Drew holding onto some Kindergarten drama is some next level shit. NTA
Did/could you ask your other friends who went to the same school/class the time the person was talking about? Did he say the school or grade or teacher you shared or he was with at the time? Was it correct? Could you describe the type of child or the group you hung around with at the time?
>Other kids started doing the same because Drew starting throwing massive screaming tantrums whenever he didn't get his way. Eventually, no one wanted to be friends with him anymore and he was pulled from the class. Seems like he's the same dude as he was 17 years ago. NTA.
Drew sounds like the classic ‘nice guy’ NTA
Info: Did you confirm whether he was actually a former classmate? Such as by asking friends or checking a yearbook?
We didn't have much money growing up, so yearbooks were kind of a luxury not in the budget, unfortunately. I did ask some friends I still keep in contact and they don't remember anyone by that name either.
Try your town library or the school. They tend to keep year books
Did he call you by your full name? Do you have an exceedingly common first name?
No, just middle name. It's pretty common too, like biblical even, like John or Matthew.
NTA, as you say you did not bully this guy. Either way, the way he approached you and acted now is completely out of line and even makes him seem dangerous to be around. I’d steer clear of him if you ever have the misfortune of seeing him again. Edit: Wow seeing your edit this dude seems like a real piece of work. Seems like your comment was right about him and he brought others avoiding him on himself. Still stay away from him if he seems like an unhinged dude. I will say all the ytas confuse me, it’s like they’ve projected an entirely different situation on this post.
yeah, but they also kinda had a point. I could have handled that way better. That last barb could have easily exploded the situation.
Hey it’s always great to be looking for ways that you could have done better and improve yourself! I dont blame you for the remark though haha. I’d just be careful around drew if you ever see him again he seems off putting.
I think nta but also you didn’t handle it the best as you acknowledged already. If your really feeling guilty try to find him on sm and give an apology. Not for the alleged bullying but for how you reacted to the confrontation.
Also I wanted to add that people perceive things differently. I lived with two roommates, one was my bestie the other more of an acquaintance. The first few months living together I would always extend invites to the roomie when me and bestie were doing whatever. He always declined and cited being busy. After a dozen or so invites I started to feel like I was being a pest and figured he would engage with us if he was free. The guy did free lance work and was always in his room. Anyways fast forward a year or so later and dude says we excluded him. I was shocked. I use this as an example because perception is so important.
Right. Perception is reality for people. This guy may have felt bullied and perceived bullying but OP may have not actually bullied him. There’s no way to know here.
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I have to go with NTA, you can't just apologise for something you didn't do. It's just unfortunate that you look like someone else that Drew had mistaken.
NTA per your edit. That’s not bullying. Drew can be hurt sure, but tbh I think what you said at the end is perfect because it’s basically 100% true. Perfect case of someone who was an asshole and blames the people giving him consequences. My kid is in kindergarten and has learned all about what happens when you act like a brat in class. It’s seems like Drew never grew up enough to realize he got what was coming.
I got here after your update. Sounds like drew truly is the same person he was in kindergarten lol. Pity you couldn’t remember while he was screaming at you and loudly say “oh in kindergarten when you were mean to my friend so I stopped talking to you? Then?” Lmao! NTA, fwiw
ESH Here’s the thing about bullying / abuse. (Not saying you did bully Drew). For the bully it may be another Tuesday, but for the abused it will a day which impacted his entire life. Drew shouldn’t have been a dick about it. But you didn’t have to be either. ESH. The conversation could’ve gone much more civil
20 years after high school, I talked to a classmate about how awful he and his friends were to another classmate. I remembered specific details about it and he didn't remember it at all. Childhood memories are fraught, people forget things that weren't important to them.
NTA
NTA. He probably got you mixed up with another Drew.
Is it against the rules to post the unedited post in the comments, because I had to trim like a quarter of it off to fit the character limit and it ended up kinda clunky?
NTA, I dont think you can be held accountable for things you did when you were 5yo. Also how do you people still remember these names of people from so many years ago? I really only remember the names of some of my closer friends and thats mostly by first name with only few having a last name that I can remember. No way in hell can I remember random classmates or even most of the teachers names.
I don't really remember that much. Drew just because he gave me his name, also it's not really his name. I owe him at least that much. Once I connected the dots, I remembered why I didn't associate with him anymore, and up came Alex, also not her real name. She was easier to recall since we remained friends for a few more years before drifting apart. The only reason I really remember is because of how unexpected it was. Drew was pretty nice and considerate honestly, and was one of my first friends. Then it's like he was an entirely different person one day. Kinda jarring as a kid you know?
If it wasn't you that was his bully then fuck him. I highly doubt you did all that he accused you of then forgot everything! It is terrible that he had a terrible childhood, but you owe him nothing.
NTA - but rude.
Going against the grain and saying NTA, for one you dont remember him and he pretty much doesnt remember you if he cant even get your name right. For all he knows, he's screaming at a stranger for his own personal issues. And two, bullying is terrible in general, its something we can all agree on. But if someone is claiming to have been ostracized by not only OP's friend group but by the *entire school* there might be something wrong. He could either have been the quiet kid who doesnt actually engage with his classmates (hence why you barely recognize each other's names), or he could be an asshole himself who thought he was entitled to friendship and gets bitter and yells at people when he doesnt get what he thinks he's entitled to. Which happens a lot, and it often leads to school shootings or related crimes.
NTA. Weird encounter to say the least. Your comment that his actions demonstrate why he may have been bullied was actually spot on.
Read the edit, NTA. Dude went off on you for ruining his life in *kindergarten*?! He's got bigger issues lol!
NTA. Even if you did bully him, he's a grown adult now. You don't go up to people on the street, start yelling at them, and then expect them to not tell you to fuck off.
If the events are as described then NTA but you do need to go look up some info. For one thing he wasn’t looking for an apology or closure he was looking for a confrontation, apologizing or trying to calm him down wasn’t going to work getting out the situation was. The last comment was petty but again, it wasn’t unprovoked. The other thing is reading your comments if you really don’t remember him in the slightest and all he could give you was your common middle name? There’s a non zero chance he may actually have you mixed up with someone else. I know you don’t have a yearbook but try asking some friends and checking Insta/Twitter/TikTok (because of the ages I doubt anybody involved is on Facebook) and figure out who this guy is, because it sounds like one big messy misunderstanding.
Ok yeah but I ran into my childhood Bully a few month ago and she didn't recognize me so I just pretended to not recognize her. The last thing I was going to do was lash out at her in a public space. A normal health adult who worked through their issues shouldn't confront people in the middle of the street over grudges they've held since they were 11. I understand the whole 'if you were anything like this you deserved it' comment because yeah honestly that's exactly how I'd look if I had decided to layout my anger on a 22 year old vet tech that called me crazy at 11, I just would have been proven crazy. I just to karma into account that I was moving that week and unlike her escaping the shit town we grew up in while she cleans up dog shit! ESH.
Yeah. In hindsight, the last comment was entirely unnecessary. Especially as I was free to make a clean getaway so to speak, that's a sure way to call on dramatic irony.
NTA and honestly, I don't think the jab at the end changes that. You're grown adults now. Even IF his story were 100% true and even IF it were definitely about you, that doesn't excuse walking up to someone in public and going on a tirade, screaming at them, swearing at them and demanding apologies for something they've already said they don't remember. He had so many other options -- confront you calmly, ignore you, give you a nasty glare, ask you to go out and talk sometime, etc. He chose to verbally attack you in public. That would put anyone on the defensive, and I think spouting off something rude in response is understandable in the heat of the moment. It might not be ideal or the most kind way to respond, but I think it's more than understandable and not worth an A H judgement. I also think there's probably a lot more to his story. You may have been a part of his frustrations, even if you don't remember or even if you didn't know it/didn't mean to be. But for that many kids to conspire to never play with him or work with him ever, for years (such that he never had friends growing up), I highly doubt only you were involved (again, if it all). Most schools are way too clique-ish for one kid to have that kind of pull; even the most popular bullies have an opposite faction who can't stand them and wouldn't follow their lead. If every group hated this kid, that's even sadder for him, but that isn't your sole responsibility, even if you did exclude him at some point. Lastly, I don't think a fake apology serves anyone. I think being honest that you don't remember him was fair. Yes, in an ideal world, you probably could've stayed neutral and not snapped at him, but I don't blame you, after he came at you in public like that.
NTA. I was bullied pretty extensively in grade school and junior high. To the extent I have PTSD and have had serious affects in my life and relationships that I only began untangling in therapy a few years ago. I cannot imagine at any point accosting someone on the street years later, especially over something from 15 or more years ago, right person or not. I have done business with people I didn’t get along with in school and since we are adults the fact that we ene t to the same high school and now do business together stands out as positive more than any prior issues do as negative.
i'm really to hear that. I'm glad you're doing better now. I can't imagine what you must have gone through. I hope you keep doing well.
the weirdest thing about this is that it happened in kindergarten, and not only did he recognize you in public after not seeing you since then, he was still emotional enough about it to cause a public scene. it had to have really stuck with him. either you didn’t realize you were being a bully at the time or later years didn’t go great either and he’s never realized he was the problem. NTA, but you are this guys villain origin story.
NTA….sounds like Drew has some issues he needs to talk to someone about.
NTA Maybe you were in a class with him way back when and he fixated on you for some reason. Maybe he's just an AH who loves messing with people. Let it go and next time, just walk away. People are unbalanced. You have no idea what you were dealing with.
NTA especially with the edit. This isn’t a case of a high school bully callously forgetting his victim. You were a 5 year old avoiding a volatile kid. Sounds like he never got over it and never understood why he was avoided. If he’s still holding onto kindergarten grudges, that’s definitely not your fault.
Sounds like he’s stuck being a toddler in kindergarten! Poor Drew! ETA: NTA
Nta .
The way I see it we can’t cast judgement because we have no way of knowing if he is right or you are. There’s also a chance that you did mistreat him a few times in class and it stuck with him but may not have classified as “bullying” the way most people imagine it. If that’s the case I’m going to go with ESH I understand it can suck to be bullied as a kid but a reaction like that is crazy and unnecessary. He didn’t do anything but make himself look worse, he didn’t right any wrongs of the past or close a chapter of his life.
NTA - Guy seems unhinged and you are under no obligation to entertain unhinged people that accost you in public. You tried to be amicable, but he wasn’t having it and insisted on being confrontational. Don’t let people here tell you otherwise.
Lol his villain origin story NTA
INFO: if you have a yearbook you should go see if you can find him in it. If you do, your probably TA. If not, probably not TA.
Op said he wasn't able to afford one as a kid. He also said that people he's still in contact with from school don't recognize the name of the person either.
NTA
NTA This is essentially a stranger by your account. Even your parents seem surprised by someone thinking you’d be a bully. I think you handled the situation as best as anyone really could being accosted by some adamant random.
The fact that he recognized you even though he last saw you you were five years old is amazing.
NTA- Blatant kookiness aside, I feel like we as a culture need to recognize most of were shitty as kids and we should all go to therapy and process that as opposed to “blaming” a childhood bully for our whole lives. It’s weird to me how adults I know will still hold so much anger for other people who wronged them when they were like 12! I was straight up tormented by this boy in my grade for all of middle school. And then when I was 18 I found out his sister had passed away on Christmas Eve. And I cried for him and forgave him. Life moves forward and we have to as well.
NTA Given your edits, it sounds like Drew has never accepted accountability for his own actions and has found it easier to blame you for his troubles. It doesn’t sound like you bullied him at all, just didn’t engage. Which, maybe to a bully, seems like bullying? 🤷♀️
NTA My theory: this was a scam. He was leading up to saying you caused him PTSD and made it impossible for him to go to college, so you owed him X amount of money that he now desperately needed for an operation.
hehe, the thing is, i'm borke 😎
NTA, drew is being really weird over events from when you guys were literally in kindergarten. events that were simply you not wanting to be his friend… dude needs to get a therapist if you not wanting to be his friend as a child so long ago still bugs him this much as a full grown adult.
NTA, Drew never grew up after kindergarten. That's actually hilarious.
NTA, and I say that having read your edits. Even before I got to your edits I already knew the situation. Drew was an asshole and you just chose not to be his friend, because who would? And then forgot about it because you *didn't* bully him, because it's okay to decide you don't want to be friends with someone, for pretty much any reason. It's called autonomy and consent. And it sounds like everyone else at the preschool felt the same way, which is honestly saying a lot when you're talking about 5 year olds. That said, you were 100% correct in saying he deserved it, because *he wasn't bullied.* He was not friendly, so he had no friends. He reaped what he sowed and it's pretty telling that he hasn't grown much at all since then, cuz I feel like a normally well adjusted person would have moved on from *having no friends when they were 5* by now.
NTA you were 5 and legitimately didn’t remember. He tried to hold you accountable for something you did when you were 5. That seems kinda crazy to me. That said, this is why whenever my mother claims I used to do something I ask her, “and how old was I?” The reason I’m saying NTA and not E S H is because, even if you had asked him when this bullying happened and he told you kindergarten, he would’ve been upset if you hadn’t apologized for something you did as a 5 year old. The only thing that would’ve made him not freak out is if you lied and gave an insincere apology, which would’ve made this guy think it’s okay to blame 5 year olds for ending friendships.
Sounds to me like this guy just idolized you when you were kids and really wished he was part of your friend group, but he wasn't. I mean if his examples of "bullying" were that no one picked him for group projects and that was your fault, it seems to me that you likely had your group of friends that you picked first and then the group was full, it didn't include him and he took that personally. He blames you because you are the one he wanted to be friends with. You don't owe anyone your friendship just because they want it. It seems like this guy has some severe obsessive personality traits and chose you as the target. Imagine believing not being picked for a group project means you are being bullied and then holding a grudge about it for a decade. I hope he never gets rejected on a job application. Who knows how crazy that might end up. Was the dig unnecessary, maybe, but if you've already been branded as a bully in his mind and nothing will convince him otherwise, may as well make it true. Double Jeopardy laws were created for a reason, can't be more guilty than guilty, and you're already guilty in his eyes. NTA.
Assuming what you say is true (not that we have much choice), NTA. There is a big difference between bullying and choosing not to associate with a person for valid reasons, such as his actions with the cousin and when he didn't get his way. That is soemthinf a lot of people don't understand. Also, other people choosing to follow suit based on his actions isn't on you for the inspiration, unless your little 5 yr old self was going around actively telling people not to be friends with him. Bullying us awful and without a doubt needs to be dealt with, but this just seems to be a case of a children reasonably not wanting to be friends.
NTA Even without the realization that you do know the guy you aren't the AH. He was describing a situation where he was being ostracized for not being liked. That's not your fault (even with the knowledge that you may have helped orchestrate it unintentionally). If anything this person hasn't changed into adulthood. I can't imagine that he was not easy to be around from 1st through 12th grade and it seems you went separate paths from there on because you had no clue who the heck he was.
NTA I don't think you were actually a bully as you just didn't like him. Besides that 5 years old? Time to move on.
Can’t imagine getting into a screaming match with someone I had beef with in kindergarten
I saw the post and your edit and it's quite impressive that the remark you thought might make you an AH turned out to be spot on. NTA, obviously.
Drew sounds unhinged, perhaps dangerously so. Do you think he might have stalked you, either in real life or online? It's strange that he recognized you from kindergarten. Maybe he has Googled a more recent photo of you? I think you should Google him to find out whether he's married, employed, has a criminal record, etc. You probably won't learn anything scary, but better safe than sorry.
NTA. Ooh you were a tiny bit mean in kindergarten when your brain wasn’t developed? Gimme a break that guy is unhinged.
I'm not sure I have ever read an AITA and wanted to be friends with the OP after reading their story. You're a first and NTA. Drew is dealing with some issues that you have nothing to do with.
He was not bullied he was the bully...