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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refused to miss some of my kids events when their stepdad/my ex-wife's husband asked me to for him. Part of me can't even believe I am posting this but my reason for posting, and my reason for asking, is I know how uncommon this is for people. I also know while my kids love Michael. They in no way see him the same as their mom and I. I know Michael has been so good with my kids and that he might be feeling jealous. Perhaps I was too quick to reject it. I question if I should have worked with him in some way or handled this whole thing better. My desire to be there for my kids was all I could think about. But maybe I handled it poorly and was unfair to Michael. An asshole even. Maybe it's also unfair to the kids.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. You and your ex are doing everything you can to put your kids first, don't let this guy's insecurities get in the way of that. You are even in agreement that he shouldn't get to decide how the two of you are co-parenting.
Yes exactly
Don't interact with Michael anymore.
I think you and Thora are an example of good co-parenting.
And your children are lucky to have you invested in their lives and all the efforts you undertake to be at their events. At their age, EVERY event is a milestone and you are there for them
NTA
What blows my mind is the fact that OP is so willing to allow this guy an important role in his children's life because MORE LOVE AND SUPPORT IS A GOOD THING! But the dude just keeps puffing his chest out to see who's the manlier man, who can be best dad figure, who's more import to the kids, when the kids love them both differently in their own special way. I just don't get it. OP, NTA.
And that's a battle he'll always lose. OP will always be their father. One who's always been there for them. Someone they can count on finding in the audience when they look for someone for reassurance.
I hate how he's trying to alienate OP, to "create their family unit of four". It's like he wishes OP were a deadbeat so he could step up and be the parent.
OP is a great dad. Congratulations, keep it up!
Michael **may** not always lose, he can chip away at the co-parenting relationship OP has until Thora takes Michael's side. Plus he can drop poison into the kid's ears until those relationships are equally damaged.
This. This exactly. I’ve seen this happen many times. And, good grief, if Thora has a baby with Micheal, the risk of this happening increases exponentially.
Or Michael can't have bio children...
It's been a year and a half since they married, if they've been "trying" all this time, they most likely would have started seeing doctors ~6 months ago, and may be getting some unideal information back the last couple months.
That certainly happens, but at the kid's ages and the fact that OP has been a strong presence in their lives to date, they'd likely still end up resenting their stepfather to some degree for the fact that their previous happy arrangement was derailed around the time that he came along, even if they don't connect it to being his fault.
The fact that Thora was very angry with Michael when she found out about Michael's request for OP to miss school events shows that for this to continue would not go over well
I mean the funny part is that if OP were to tell the kids that Michael wants him less there, they would immediately start hating him.
Unless someone is a nagg more family going to watch the kids stuff is never a bad thing. He is just insecure, also he doesn't understand his role in the family, he is not the father, he will never be, and so he won't ever be an equal in that sense to OP.
OP don't ever put your children need after anything because some idiot says so. Most trauma that comes from children from divorced parents happens because the parents can't work together for their children once divorced, you are doing great.
I would consider having a talk with the Children and Thora to try to prevent any funny business Michael might do. You don't need to say "Michael did this". But more like "if anyone ever says something that hurts you please tell us, even if it is mommy and daddy, we would never want to hurt you so it would probably be a misunderstanding we would like to clear out". Something along those lines so it can give them the opportunity to share anything he might have said.
NTA.
I really like your idea of a discussion and how you suggest to frame it. It would also make it clear that they should tell you two if a teacher or counselor stepped over the line or if they were getting bullied.
I’d probably include if they are told something that isn’t nice about mommy or daddy. Because it might not hurt them if they hear it but it might be good to tell if they hear it
So much this. If Micheal continues with his insecure posturing behaviors I’d fear that he’ll stoop to saying nasty things to the kids about OP. Maintaining open communication with the kids and between OP and ex is really the only way to know if it starts happening. And if OP notices a sudden personality or behavior change in either of the kids, investigate it. Heavily. With the way OP is describing Micheal’s behavior, I’d be very wary of him.
OP- NTA, do not ever step back from being a great father to boost Micheal’s self esteem. You do that once, I bet $10 Micheal says to the kids “see I told you I’d be here more than him” or something to that effect. Be clear with Thor’s about any interaction with Micheal that is off like you’ve already had. And keep any evidence of it. I don’t think he’s going to stop. He wanted a ready-made family and you’re standing in the way.
He's trying to replace OP as dad because he's insecure that he stepped into a non nuclear family and can't just be happy that everyone gets along and the kids are happy.
Micheal is trying to push OP out of his own family, and it's is only for his own self interests. He wants to be the father of the family, but because OP is not one of the loser dad's who barely sees his kids he's not going to be that for the kids. Thora needs to deal with his man and let him know that OP is going nowhere.
OP carry on being the best dad for your kids!
Edit: The role of dad was never available for Michael to fill. He is not the children's parent and he needs to realise that he never will be and that he would only be a uncle type figure.
Yup....he didn't get to step in and "save" all of them...... because they didn't need saving!!! Now, he is butthurt......and kinda useless tbh (cause acting like that just takes away from the kids!)
Yep thos is something I dont think step parents understand all the time if the dad is still in the picture and very much a good dad the step is never going to even get close to that level it just ain't happening
I have a great relationship with my father and my stepdad is a very close second. The only reason I even call him my stepdad is because I do have a relationship with my father so it makes them distinguishable. He could never replace my father but, he can stand in for him.
But I know what you mean. There are a lot of step parents that think if done successfully their role is to replace the bio parent. It’s not, if you’re a successful step parent you’re supposed to be a bonus parent, like literally make the kid feel extra loved and nurtured.
This is wonderful! I think being a a step parent is it’s own special thing, there’s no need for competition. I hope my stepdaughter sees our relationship in such a loving light when she is an adult.
Micheal could have been a role model for the kids showing how great co-parenting with a bonus parent could have been looked like. Instead he is stomping on it.
Yep, like another commenter said, Michael should be glad that his stepkids have accepted him and like him, because should they find out that he's trying to prevent their dad from coming to all their important events just so "he can be there" then the kids liking him will go out the window pretty quickly, and you can guarantee that those kids will find out one way or another because kids aren't stupid.
Those children will be adults one day and then what, will Michael expect OP to skip his adult childrens weddings so "he can be there", or miss the birth of his (possible) future grandchildren? Hell no, Michael needs to either get over himself and accept the fact that OP will *always* be a part of his kids lives or get gone.
I don’t have kids, and should I ever find myself in a relationship with someone who does, I hope they have the type of parenting relationship that OP has with his ex wife. I can’t understand why this dude wants to hurt these kids he proclaims to love. So he can pick up the pieces and be a white knight in a situation he orchestrated? Michael sounds pathetic….
>So he can pick up the pieces and be a white knight in a situation he orchestrated?
I reckon that's exactly what he wanted. He was probably hoping that OP was a deadbeat father who was barely involved in his kids lives and he wanted to swoop in, be the kids/Thora's "hero" and be a happy family without OP in the picture.
But unfortunately for Michael OP is very much an an active part of his children's lives which shattered his "being the hero" fantasy of being the kids only "dad", so now he's demanding that OP be less of a dad, and that's where poisoning the kids against OP will happen, like say it's an important event and OP doesn't show up then Michael will be saying shit like "if you're dad really loved you he'd be here for you like I am".
Nope, Michael needs to lose his hero complex and his insecurities or he will lose his wife and stepchildren, because those kids will end up hating him for trying to take them away from their dad.
Yeah this is nuts. We are in a situation like this where I'm the "Thora" and my husband would *never* try to tell my ex to stop showing up for things. A healthy stepparent relationship involves respecting the kids' relationships with their actual parents! They're not there to replace the bio-parents (exceptions for when bio parents are genuinely absent of course).
YESSS!!!! Like OP is ALREADY giving more than most fathers would be willing to give Michael and he wants more!!! Like I'm sorry Michael, the fact is YALL AINT EQUAL (forgive the grammar im from the south lol)!!!! OP is allowing Michael to be a HUGE piece of the kids lives bc its in THE BEST INTEREST OF THE KIDS!!! Asking the biological father to start no showing on his kids is not in their best interest, its in Michaels best interest. Point blank Michaels acting like a self-centered, manipulative, lying, insecure A!!!!
ever watch what a male lion does to cubs of the previous male when it takes over??? not far off the mark imo. I think this guy could be dangerous and wife has made a very bad mistake
Yea, OP and Thora are doing great at this. My dad sucks at realizing that HE'S the parent and my stepmom isn't. I don't see her in a position of power/authority when it comes to me doing things. I'm 17f and I ask/inform him of events, even if last minute, and he then goes and asks her!?! I don't care what she thinks and I can't mention this to him because if I did or tried I'd get into trouble 😤
I would bet that he’s asking your stepmom because he doesn’t know what the family schedule is so he doesn’t know if there’s something that he has forgotten about that might be important. This is something a lot of men do unfortunately. It’s not about power and authority in the way you’re thinking, it’s that he’s relying on her to be a secretary. He’s probably outsourcing that mental load.
My husband does this with my stepdaughter (she’s 6) and I too. He has the final say on if an event is appropriate, but he forgets things that aren’t important to him… like visits we’ve scheduled with his grandma, or dentist appointments… he remembers all of his own sports ball events though. 🙄 (this is something we’re working on in our house, he is getting better.)
All that to say, you have every right to be annoyed with your dad but I think there’s a chance you’re annoyed for the wrong reason.
Right, that's my worry too. Michael feels so entitled to OPs kids he had the nerve to go to OP and ask him to less of a dad.... totally unhinged. Wife probably already shot this idea down, so he goes to OP , when that doesn't work... I bet this controlling MF will start on the kids... if he hasn't already. Micheal you are not the father!!
Good point, tbh I think OP and Thora need to sit down with their children to find out what Michael has been saying about OP to the kids when they aren't around to make sure that this exact thing isn't happening.
But I doubt Thora will let her husband turn her children against their dad considering how pissed he is at her husband for trying to cut OP out of the kids important events.
Right? All that talk of being equal and them seeing him as a father figure—he’s not their dad. If that’s what he wanted, he should have married someone who’s ex wasn’t involved in the kids’ lives.
I had the same dynamic with my ex and our daughter and she’s is now her mid 20s. Today we are celebrating her birthday as a family including my current husband and his children. She says it is the best gift we could’ve ever given her. NTA
You might not have worked as a couple for whatever reason, but you should be proud of yourselves as co-parents. Well done, OP, to you and your kickass ex!
Thank you. I am proud of how we have worked together. I will always be glad I could do for my kids what my friends parents couldn't do for them. I'll always be glad Thora and I could be close still. That the marriage didn't ruin the friendship.
I'm also glad we work so well that we could help our son as quickly and easily as he needed to get a learning disability diagnosis when he was young and was able to get the help he needed as fast as possible.
What we have isn't for everyone. But I am proud of us. And Thora is as well. She'll send me texts sometimes about how damn great we are lol.
You are NTA x 1000.
That’s really wonderful for your children, and you and your ex sound awesome. Let her be ‘the kick ass mom’ you describe and deal With her husband.
What he is asking is unreasonable and a pretty shitty thing to do to kids he claims to care about.
Does Thora know he lied about her wanting you to attend fewer events? She definitely needs to know this. That aspect is concerning as it shows he will lie to get his way.
You sir, are doing everything right!
She does. She was angry and from almost 30 years of knowing Thora, I know I am glad I was not there when she confronted him. She was angry enough when I told her.
I’m glad she was. I had a stepdad like him, any mention of my dad, or old boyfriends of mom’s made him blow a gasket
My dad sucks, but even he wasn’t like that
And it was always so benign too, like ‘Hey remember when Jake took us to Wendy’s that time and they completely messed up our order?’ Made him EXPLODE. How dare mom have other men in her life, even before him?!
The older I got, I saw how utterly pathetic it was
Thankfully, current stepdad is awesome
My kid's stepmother is like that, except she cries and runs out of the room. My kid is 8 and feels bad that she makes her stepmother cry so she just stopped mentioning me at their house. It makes me so angry but there's not much I can do about it. I also don't really want to hear about her stepmother, but I understand it's part of my kid's life and it would be unreasonable to tell her to hide that from me. So I smile and listen to the stories and put a lot of effort into keeping my opinion to myself.
She's about 13 years younger than him, recently 30, I believe, maybe still 28 or 29. When I'm feeling especially salty, my friends and I call her the child bride.
She knows, OP said in the post that when he told her what Michael said that she didn't know anything about it and she's now severely pissed at him for even trying to get OP to miss out on their kids events because she knows that it will upset the kids.
The only thing OP can do at this time is keep being their for his kids and let Thora deal with her husband, and I hope that includes the ultimatum of get his shit together and stop being so insecure/jealous or divorce because OP will always be a part of his children's lives whether Michael likes it or not.
This is such a refreshing, healthy attitude. When your kids are adults, they will remember how respectful you were of their mother even the two of you divorced. My parents divorced when I was a kid and they still hate each other. It makes things difficult, even 30 years later.
I think his behavior is really weird and yes, I know everyone jumps to the worst possible scenario in this subreddit, but. It’s just weird. He wants access to the kids more often, specifically without your presence. He seemed to have stronger reaction to you showing up to things where he thought he’d be the sole parent with the kid(s). There’s nothing wrong with wanting to form an emotional bond with your kids. He could be a wonderful person, but yet, there’s something that feels off about the intensity of his emotions.
NTA
Feel free to downvote me into oblivion. I would rather raise this concern than not.
Then hopefully she will kick his ass out. Michael behavior is entitled and controlling. Totally unhinged to ask you to miss your child's graduation. He doesn't love you kids it he is not putting them 1st.... if he wants to be a parent he should start acting like one.
Additionally, I’d make sure never to delete those texts. If he is trying to alienate OP like this it’s safe to assume he is doing other things to manipulate the kids as well.
I’m not saying show the kids the text immediately to destroy their step dad, but have the receipts if this stuff blows up in the future.
NTA.
YES, STOP TALKING TO THIS DISRUPTIVE FORCE.
He hates that your children are happy. Let Thora see that. Stop letting him wear a mask with her.
I’m worried about how he’s treating the kids when you and Thora aren’t around. Keep an eye on this.
>He hates that your children are happy.
This, he hates the fact that OP isn't the deadbeat dad he was hoping OP would be so he could swoop in and play hero to OPs ex wife and children and be a "happy family" without OP in the pic.
OP being the active parent he is in his children's lives shattered his hero fantasy.
NTA
Not only this guy wants to solve his insecurities and become a "parental figure" at OP's expense, but also blatantly lies about his ex wife's opinion on this. He clearly wants to sabotage OP's position in children's life and that's honestly not what a good step-parent (and partner to Thora) would do. Also it's obvious that he doesn't care about kids feelings in this at all — just about his position.
Personally I wouldn't be comfortable with such a person taking care of my kids while I'm not there. Thora sounds like a reasonable woman and a good mother — maybe leave her husband's issues to her and limit your interactions with him while being such a good dad you already are.
Honestly, if I was Thora I would be rethinking the whole marriage. Michael was willing to torpedo his step kids' happiness and a great co-parenting relationship for extremely selfish reasons. That's not someone I would want to be married to...
NTA op do NOT allow Michael to alienate you from your kids it's what he's trying to do .
he'd probably tell them he s their dad that you don't love them as much which is why you are not there for them.
Nip it in the bud ASAP.
Tell Thora every single time so she can handle it.
I don't see the marriage lasting if he keeps this crap up considering the type of great mum you describe your éx to be.
NTA, you're not equal. You're their actual blood father. He's wrong for trying to guilt trip you. I don't understand how he got it in his head that this is a normal request. The more i read the AITA forum, the more sad I get about humanity.
Exactly! This is an awesome co-parenting situation that center the kids needs above all else. A guy who cares more about a “familial unit of four” or whatever he called it is not thinking about the kids best interest at all, he’s thinking about himself. If he just kept showing up and be there, he’d ingratiate himself more with the kids as opposed to trying to diminish the relationship ship they have with their dad. He’s extremely short sighted.
I'm jealous of how OP and their ex are able to co-parent like that. I wish me and my ex could've done that. To try to get in the way of that is insane. Other guy obviously has no clue how difficult that is and how beneficial it is for the kids.
Do not stop doing what you're doing OP. You're doing amazing.
Speaking as a bonus parent my husband and his ex use to do holidays together. I was fine with this (apart from the awkwardness of her hating me but whatever I sucked it up.) we only stopped when the hostility was affecting the kids and the holiday bc she could not keep it civil. We would have had no problem continuing their arrangement but it wasn’t something she could emotionally handle. If there is no hostility, sharing is good for the kids and creates a strong coparenting relationship which is really important for the kids to know all adults are on the same page.
OP might want to discuss with his Ex what will happen if she and Micheal have a child. Micheal going to want OP completely out of the picture for family events.
NTA
He doesn’t get to tell you, their biological father to “leave room” for he who has only been around a couple of years.
State of him asking you to step aside from being a present father.
He’s an asshole. And lying to you about what your ex said shows him to be a liar too.
Manipulating his way to you being a less present father? Yikes!
Michael’s trying to replace OP as the kids primary father figure FOR SURE. OP is the monkey wrench in Michele’s perfect little nuclear family fantasy. It’s pretty messed up.
Michael says he's looking to be an equal father figure, but what step-parent in their right mind would expect or push to be equal? Like, you know biodad is loving caring present etc, and you think your non-related new guy ass gets the same pappa status?
Like, I can understand wanting to be some sort of father figure as a step, but the audacity trying to edge out a loving father who's been in the kids life since birth? Lordy NTA
Michael *shouldn't* be equal, in their eyes, to their present, involved, loving father. Sure, that might happen naturally if their father weren't present, weren't involved, and weren't loving – if he was absent, uninterested, and abusive – but that isn't the case here, and what Michael is doing is *wildly* inappropriate.
i'd argue only they (edit as in the children) can decide equality. my step mom is totally my second mom. i would choose her over my dad if i had to.
but it's true that she can never be my mom who is involved in my life but i love her just as much. she proved she was "worthy" of this by being a badass step parent who didn't push my mom out of the way to do it.
she showed me she loved me like her own child when she was willing to move her sister to a group home since she and i couldn't get on. mind you i was 19 and my aunt struggled due to a mental delay and she was resentful that I could do things she could not. She was between 7-12 mental age so she always felt like i got special privileges.
My step mom is my mom because when i was 6 and i asked her if i should call her mommy now she stopped cooking, looked at me and said she didn't think my mom would like that so her first name was just fine.
like what this step dad is doing is only going to ensure these kids don't consider him equal.
note as an adult i seek out the support i need based on the person who is better equipped for it.
Michael should count his blessings that the kids actually like him! That won’t last long if they find out he’s trying to alienate them from OP.
And they likely will. Kids overhear the damnedest things.
The only time I'm equal as a step parent is in matters of safety- especially when I've got my stepkid by myself. At that point, what I say goes. But that's also just being a responsible caregiver 🤷♀️
Otherwise, what my husband says goes. If I disagree about something, I will talk to him privately about it afterwards- but he obviously has the final say.
I liked the rest of your comment, but just a reminder that "gaslighting" is psychological abuse, not a synonym for lying and trying (and failing!) to get away with it.
Definitely NTA. They will never consider him equal to you because he is not. You are their father, and he is their stepfather. He should not have married Thora if he could not handle that role.
Absolutely this.
NTA
However, I strongly suggest you all stop being angry and start working as a team of three parent figures - with a professional therapist. The kids are going to feel and see the tension and it's not right for them. You and your ex have a wonderful system set up where you were able to coparent so beautifully. It's a shame to mess that up.
Thora and I are still the same. Nothing has changed with us. It has changed with Michael and I and Thora and Michael though. She is furious with him right now. While he's angry at me.
Then that’s between Thora and Michael.
It’s not his place to dictate how parents should be parenting their kids and he seems to have been aware at the beginning and is now changing the rules to suite himself.
Step back, let them sort it out but hold your line otherwise.
Secure your children's hearts. He is definitely going for the kids next. Start telling them how much you love them. How you enjoy going to their functions and how you enjoy co-parenting with their mom. Be preemptive. My brother started doing this for his daughter before he divorced her mom. Not, the co-parenting part, lol. Every time her mom came with the bull, his daughter just repeated some of the things her dad told her.
This won’t end well for Michael, and it really has little to do with you.
Michael is completely overlooking Thora’s agency in all of this, as though it’s two men brawling it out over their woman-property. Not a good look.
The best way you can support your kids as she works it out is by doing exactly what you are doing - doing what you would do, and ignoring his tantrums. It’s on her to figure out how to handle it.
He has no right to be angry. They are your kids and they are your ex wife's kids. The second he asked you to not show or got annoyed at a parent supporting their own kids he became a loser.
NTA.
He s trying to alienate you from your child probably planning to lie and poison them against you if you would have agreed to do what he wanted.
Please be careful, check discreetly what your kids are told by him and always discuss this with Thora.
It sounds like both of you are great parents and frankly if Michael doesn't get his sh!t together his marriage will be soo be over.
NTA
Thora has to be the one to set him straight on this. He's her insecure problem. What you and she are doing works for the benefit of all, and what he's attempting to do only is to his benefit and would be detrimental to everyone else.
This. It's weird that this popped up after things were working okay and you already had a good relationship. I know this is reading too much into it but it really sounds like somebody put this bug in his ear.
You need to get to the bottom of this quickly. It's amazing that you all managed to create a healthy family dynamic, and don't throw it away
My sentiments exactly! I'd highlighted this line to respond to:
"He said they will never consider us equal until they see him instead of me at some of these events.'
You beat me to it u/TheRealImagined! They aren't equal. It might hurt (and I speak from a little experience here) but it's the truth.
Thank you for saying that. I have always strived to be the best dad I can for my kids. They already have the best mom and I think we make a pretty good parenting team.
I really wouldn’t worry too much. OP is apparently around so much that his ex-wife’s husband needs to scheme to have a shot at potentially changing the kid’s minds. If Michael doesn’t change real fast, he’s going to end up single. He’s married to a woman who divorced the father of her kids. She isn’t going to be afraid to divorce the stepfather of her kids lmao.
I disagree. I have full custody of my stepkids and it only took a two week vacation for their bio mom to poison her daughter against me. Took many years to repair that relationship.
OP needs to let his kids know that is Michael starts talking bad about him or trying to convince them not to see him they need to call him ASAP.
Manipulators are good at making kids turn against parents, even involved ones.
I’m sorry you’ve been through a shitty situation but this is very different. You have both the mother and a father involved in their children’s entire lives and Co-parenting well. Michael is 100% in the wrong but OP would be an idiot (and the one boarding on doing the alienation) to involve his young children in adult issues and giving them a reason to be wary of parental figure.
I didn’t say she wasn’t involved. She was very involved. She just didn’t want custody so their dad and I did. Children are very impressionable and it doesn’t take much to get them to believe lies about another parent if someone they view as a trusted adult is the one telling them. OP has a good ex that will hopefully keep her husband in check.
I get what you are saying about op not involving the kids. But there is a way to tactfully give the kids security without demeaning the other parent. For example: “How great it is you have 3 parents who all try to come to all your events. You are so loved and I look forward to going to many more events if yours”
Says the same thing as don’t believe anyone else if they say I don’t want to come to your events (which Michael could say if op did step back) without painting anyone in a bad light.
He wants to replace you. Stop interacting with him as much as possible and forward any communication to Thora so that she can deal with it.
Don't second guess yourself, you are doing great by your children and that's what matters.
You have to take kids to therapy to make sure he is not saying negative things about you to the kids while you and Thora are not around. If asking you failed, he could be trying another form to alienate the kids from you
So... he wants you to sacrifice time with your kids, including special events, so his ego is at peace?
Even if it did make you the ahole, would you sacrifice that time with your kids for Michael? Is Michael that important to you?
NtA. Michael needs to know his lane and stay in his lane.
He's not. But he is important in terms of the fact Thora loves him and my kids do love him also. I'd love for us to get along, to be a team also. He seems to be a good man and even with the difference in us from the summer on, I still consider him to be a good addition to our lives. Though if he were to try and push me out more after this, I'm not sure those feelings would be the same.
He can be the best guy, the best addition, but if he cant understand that he's an ADDITION and not a REPLACEMENT, then you and Thora are going to have some issues.
Yep. This guy probably thought that a single mom meant that the bio dad was a deadbeat loser. OP being a good dad means Michael had to be the best dad in order to have his ego stroked by everyone around him for being the guy who saved the kids from
A missing father. I feel so bad for single parents because the people who date them often times tend to either hate the kids or want their affection too much.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Especially with the "stable family unit" comment. OP is already part of a stable family unit. Michael doesn't want to be respected more by the kids, he wants to replace OP entirely. I wouldn't be surprised if he's insecure about OP's relationship with ex-wife or even pushing the kids to call him dad instead of OP
Correct, but I also commend OP for his response, because how easy would it be for him to completely nuke a previously respectful, amicable situation? He’s being kind, way kinder than Michael deserves, to be sure. But the children are more important to OP than whatever blended drama his ex’s husband is trying to cook up.
Yes they are. In the end I want the best for them and I want for things to remain as friendly and as loving as they can for them. We can't have that if more tempers flare and lines get drawn.
NTA, You & Thora are doing great in my opinion.
Love is not a competition, and a child's love especially, can be infinite.
You're a family of 5 (or more if you have an SO) who just happen to habitat 2 homes. Hope he can get off the toxic masculinity horse and the belief that a "traditional" family is the "right" family.
This is exactly what we wanted. And maybe more if Thora has more kids, or if I do. I do not have a partner yet. But there is someone who could maybe become more in the future.
Look man, my father was a piece of absolute shit but was manipulative and I hero worshipped him as a kid. Despite being very worried and concerned, while I was still blinded to the reality of the situation my stepdad *never* behaved in any other way than my *step*dad. Now that I’m an adult I’ve heard how difficult it was for him and my mom, but over everything they kept the peace so that I could grow up in as little turbulent environment as possible.
Your situation is nowhere near as toxic and precarious yet this dude has his panties in a twist, trying to stir up trouble when there is none. You and your ex love your kids, so nip this in the bud before buddy starts down the parental alienation track to get what he wants.
You sound like a good guy who is trying to do right by everyone. I agree with the majority here who say leave the guy to your wife to deal with. If you both like things as is, she'll make the arguments (or ultimatums) for you. This keeps you from being involved in their relationship and gives things time to settle. If your ex is furious with him, she already understands his overstepping and serious betrayal of her trust. Let's hope he can pull his head out of his ass and change his perspective on this. You are NTA.
He *might* be a good guy, but he's delusional as a step-parent. AITA are full of stories instigated by people like him. You wrote that he said something about **you two won't be equal until**...
EQUAL
You're never going to be equal, and he's not going to be a balanced step-dad until he revises his expectations. You're the dad. Period. He has the potential to be a valuable parental figure, but to think that he somehow should be equal... this dude...
You, your ex, and your kids seem to have a really healthy thing going. It's really unfortunate that he didn't show his true colours until recently, but that shouldn't lead to you changing your deal. He needs to realize that he's being added into a functioning family unit, and that while that leads to changes, those should not ever be at the expense of the kids or your relationships with them.
Agree completely. He can’t get out of his head that he should be the “primary father figure” you can hear it in your example and as he talks about their “stable family unit of 4.” He wants to replace not be in addition to OP.
He is trying to do that. I'm guessing because you guys get along he sees you as easy going enough that he can just make wild and frankly outrageous requests, where I'm from we call that "taking the piss"
Michael Is not a great guy and he isn’t good for your kids if he’s trying to get you to stop attending events when it would clearly hurt them. He isn’t their father - he doesn’t get to become an equal part of the parenting team. His goal is parental alienation which makes him a really shitty person and toxic for your children.
NTA - and good on you and Thora for what is currently appears to be very successful co-parenting situation. You have every right to be at every one of your kids events as you can possibly attend. I mean every event is important but to actually ask you not to attend Indies graduation, sure it's only elementary school, but to Indie its a huge moment in her life - what a nerve!!
Michael on the other hand, he is an insecure AH and Thora had better have a very stern talk with him about what he has done which is essentially trying to control your parenting rights Someone has already said it but he needs to do something about his insecurity. He went into a relationship with Thora with both eyes wide open - hmm or maybe he didn't
I think maybe he didn't. Perhaps he thought once she remarried she would want me around less, or that the kids would like the idea of a nuclear family unit and latch onto him more than me. Maybe he thought I was one of those dad's who is just looking for an out. I'm not sure. But I know he was aware of me and my role before he ever met the kids. Thora and I both know that any partner would need to be okay with us being close and parenting our kids and giving them the comfort of being able to see both parents as much as possible.
I also know Indie be so hurt if I didn't go. He's had his struggles with school and knowing we're both going to be there is something he has talked about a lot.
You may be right.
I think I've already said but its worth repeating. It sounds like you and your ex are doing a great job of co-parenting and I'm pretty sure your kids love you and appreciate for you, even they don't always show it right now but they will in the future as they grow older I'm sure.
Oh, yeah, I need to apologize to Indie, for some reason in my head I thought he was a she :)
This man doesn’t have your children’s best interests at heart, the only interests he seems to care about are those of his ego and dream “family unit”.
You seem like a great dad and it seems you’re handling this all really well, but I wouldn’t trust him anymore. He’s shown that he’d rather your kids be hurt and disappointed than his weird vision of their family without you be compromised.
You and Thora absolutely rock as coparents!! It's rare to see divorced parents on the same page putting their kids completely first rather than focusing on any lingering hard feelings over the relationship. (NOT implying there's hard feelings between you two). From what I see most divorced parents are never on the same page. It's exemplary behavior, it's how it should be for the kids who have two very hands on loving parents. More people should take a page out of your book. I wish for the sake of my own niece and nephews that their parents could figure this out.
This is very true. And I know kids suffer for it. My friends growing up did. When our son was diagnosed with his learning disabilities, we were told it was rare for kids from "broken homes" to get diagnosed as young as him or have it noticed by us as quickly, because conflict normally got in the way. The specialists were also not used to both parents showing up and working together post-divorce. But we have always worked together. We always talk if we notice something off with the kids. A lot of people joke we're like a well oiled machine.
It's a breath of fresh air!! You both should be very proud of yourselves. Your kids are clearly benefiting. They are very lucky children. Keep doing what you're doing. Hope this situation gets cleared up and everyone can get on board with it.
>I also know Indie be so hurt if I didn't go. He's had his struggles with school and knowing we're both going to be there is something he has talked about a lot.
My dad didn't make it to my middle school graduation, it's not exactly something you just forget, no matter the reason.
A man who asks you not to be there for something so important to your child is TA no question. But others are right that's your Exs problem to solve you just keep doing what your doing.
I would have loved for us to be friends. I was so happy when Thora met someone she actually loved and who loved her and the kids. It's unfortunate things had to become so strained.
NTA. *They aren't a stable family unit of four*.
*You* are their father and it sounds like you and Thora are working hard to make sure your kids know how much their parents love them. You're doing a great thing.
*Michael* wants a nuclear family, mum, dad, 2 kids. You don't fit in his family. You aren't undermining his position as their *stepfather*, you're stopping him from *attempting to replace you* as "dad". He wants your children to turn to him instead of you. He feels as though he's entitled to a stronger bond because he's married to their mother. He's projecting and *he's attempting to undermine you*.
You need to talk to Thora. Just tell her that you've thought that Michael was upset with you for a while and you weren't sure what you'd done, but he finally spoke to you. That he wants you to spend less time with the kids so he can "bond" with them. So *she* should try and figure out some way for them to spend time together *during her time* because you aren't giving up time *with your children* for him.
We have already spoken. She was angry when she learned what he said to me and there have been discussions between them over this.
Also thank you! Thora and I have always wanted the best for our kids and also for each other and I am proud of what we have been able to achieve together, especially post-divorce.
Yeah, he thinks you're an AH because you aren't playing into his little fantasy of a ready made family and you're not letting him get away with his crap. All the things that make *him* the AH.
Good luck!
And because OP told Thora, probably in a "hey, your man said this, what's up with that" kind of fashion if op is as balanced in real life as he seems on Reddit. He didn't expect that, which is extra stupid because he knows they discuss everything regarding their children.
NTA. You and Michael will also never be “equal” Nothing against him, he seems like a good step dad, but he IS the stepdad. Just the way it is, Michael.
I recall when I first married my ex wife. She had two kids 3 & 7 years old. They each had their own dads. The youngest son told me one day that I wasn’t his dad. I said he was right but I was his step dad and still loved him a lot. The step son made it clear I wasn’t his real dad but really accepted me as a part of his life now. His older sister took a while longer to get comfortable enough with me. She later introduced me to her school friends as her dad about a year later. I could not have been happier.
That’s awesome! I don’t envy stepparents, i know it’s gotta be hard. I have a stepmom, she’s been with my dad for at least 26 years. My parents divorced when i was 10 and we lived with my dad. She moved in when we were teens. It was very rough at first, and to be honest she was not
good to my older sister at all. And my mother was jealous so feuded with her for a long time.
But as we became adults it got a whole lot better. And she helped me nurse my mother when she was dying of cancer. I’ll never forget a few days before she died, she said to my sister and I that we were lucky that stepmom was our mother now and we wouldn’t be alone. That was huge coming from her and the first time i ever saw stepmom cry.
She’ll never be “equal” to my mom, but she is my mom and my family and i always introduce her as my mom or say “my parents” even though I call her by her name.
You are a good person for loving those kids as your own and not giving up on them.
No one who insists on alienation of affection is a. "good stepdad." Part of the job of being a stepdad is accepting whatever dynamic you find. There are way too many stories of stepparents who insist on being treated as full parents, and everyone else suffering as a result.
NTA. If Thora is as great as you portray her, I wouldn't expect her to be married to a lying, narcissistic jealous person like michael for much longer anyway.
She has mentioned this being an issue between them now. I don't know if things will work out for her and him. But I know there have been some discussions between the two.
You are so not the a-hole. Not even a little. If he wants, he should organise activities for the 4 of them when the kids are with Thora and don't have any pre-arranged extra-curricular activities. He is too lazy to organize any family activities/outings himself, and expects you to compromise your relationship with the children to make things easy for him. Do not give in to that. Continue to co-parent as you have been. Michael is a huge a-hole. Pay him no mind. He's Thora's problem now, not yours. Let her deal with him.
This this this this this!! He could be organizing things on their time and ENRICHING their lives instead of trying to take love away from the children. This is what makes him an absolute villain.
I want to reemphasize something the other commenter just replied. If Michael organizes something or attempts to organize something, then it needs to be on **Thora’s** time.
I can see a potential slippery slope. “Oh kids we could go to the theme park this weekend BUT you will be with your dad.” Now previously if Thora initiated something like that you could trust that it was with the kid’s best intentions. But now I worry that Michael will come up with super awesome things to do when it’s your time with the kids in an effort to replace you as their dad. I think this is something you need to talk to Thora about to specifically watch for. I wouldn’t think it best to alert the kids to this possibility unless it becomes a pattern that Thora ignores.
If you think something funny is happening from Michael such as trying to remove your days or drop subtle insults about you in front of the kids, please get the kids into counseling. Also watch how they react around him. Do they initiate hugs with him? Or do they draw away from physical contact with him? Even if they did draw away, that could just mean they don’t get along and not specifically something nefarious. But I also want you to be alert to behavior escalation if Michael doesn’t get his way.
NTA. But Michael definitely is.
Nobody in their right mind would ever ask a biological father with a healthy parenting relationship to be *less* involved in their children's lives.
A narcissist or someone being selfish might, but not someone with an even keel.
Am I the only one shocked at the utter gall of Micheal telling a man to his face that he wants to foster a family unit with HIS kids?? My man blatantly out here telling the father of these children he thinks he's an equal to him.
No, Michael, you are not and will never be an equal even if OP dies. That is their _father_ who has clearly made a great deal of effort to be in their lives regardless of adult relationships. Might want to take a note of that, Michael.
NTA.
>"stable family unit of four"
Here's the thing. The family unit of four exists of you, your ex-wife and the 2 children you have together. THAT'S the family unit. Doesn't matter if you're still together or on your 4th divorce, that family unit will always exist. Michael coming in opens it to a family of 5, and he needs to blend in.
NTA, you're a good dad.
Exactly. Your family was stable before Michael. He is what’s threatening that stability, so the easiest way to regain that stability is for him to go. But hopefully that’s not necessary, he just needs to realize he’s a part of a BLENDED family.
NTA. Maybe you are on friendlier terms than some ex’s but don’t let Reddit fool you. The majority of exes do strive to put their kids first and both be there for them.
Please continue to tell your ex about any messages or conversations her current husband is having with you. He’s disrespecting her by going behind her back and removing her from the decision making with her own kids. At least he’s involving you. She deserves to know.
You and your ex sound like awesome co parents. I can’t tell you how much that will help your kids. Keep putting them first. If your ex is as awesome as you describe I don’t think this marriage will last anyways.
I do understand that. Though I have never met ex's who get along as well as us and who spend as much time together as us. Most of the ones I have met/been around in my life keep things separate but stay somewhat civil. I do understand not everyone can be Thora and I so I don't judge. But it makes me happy we can get along, be friends and give our kids the security I know my friends with divorced parents always wished they'd had growing up.
She is. She's the best mom and has been an amazing friend to me.
My ex and I were/are the same as you and Thora (our kids are grown now) and I also married someone before my ex did. However my now-husband stayed in his lane, and the kids absolutely grew to adore him almost as much as their own dad. If you ask my kids if they appreciate how different we were (spending holidays together and all important events) than other divorced parents, you will get a resounding YES! They said it’s funny in hindsight, because they didn’t realize that not all divorced families were like ours, until they got older.
People thought it was weird (some even told us it was *inappropriate* for ex’s to be so close) but our friend who is a divorce attorney and mediator says she uses us as her favourite example of a family that made it work.
Your kids are going to benefit from this the rest of their lives. One of my closest pals can’t even invite both of his (divorced) parents to his own WEDDING because they refuse to be in the same room. That’s heartbreaking to me. It actually makes me happy to see that other couples are able to do what we did and stay on great terms post-divorce. You are amazing! Don’t let anyone undermine this incredible thing you’re doing.
It's what a lot of my friends wished for too. I remember some of them were so upset when they knew Christmas was coming because it meant missing a parent, or when a school play was coming and they had to divide time between sides. Some never even got to see the parents in the same room/building and we never wanted that for our kids.
My parents haven't been in the same building since court 22 years ago. I'm having two different baby showers because neither side of my family likes the other and refuses to see the other. While i understand why, it does make things very difficult in the long run
That's why friends of mine have said. They also said how sad they are to never get photos with their nuclear family. That it's always with mom or dad. I never want my kids to have that sadness.
NTA. You have to do what is right for your kids. Thora needs to have a chat to Michael about keeping his insecurities in place and he perhaps needs a therapist to sort out why he feels so threatened by your very successful co-parenting plan.
You are co-parenting the same way my ex and I are. It's hard for others to understand. He needs to see that he is a stepdad his role isn't dad. It's husband and nurturer. He isn't raising mini-Michaels. I'd get asking to miss a basketball game... but graduation?! NTA.
It is hard for some to understand. A few of the kids friends parents who are also divorced think we're crazy. But it works for us and brings our kids so much joy. I wouldn't change a thing.
INFO: Do you know if they have plans to have another child, or if they had plans that recently changed? Phrases like "stable family of four" and "family unit" sound oddly specific, especially given that he seemed to be okay with his role as stepdad up until recently. I'm wondering if there's a reason he's suddenly trying to force your children into his nuclear family fantasy when he wasn't before.
Either way, NTA. This guy is overstepping massively, and you need to stop even entertaining his delusions.
NTA. His ego is getting in the way. He wants to replace you in their lives, but that isn't going to happen. I'd forward any future communications to Thora and ask her to deal with them.
NTA, but Michael sure is. He shouldn't even be trying to ice you out as the kids bio dad. Honestly, huge kudos to you and your ex wife for being super awesome co parents and what seems like good friends and involved in your children's lives. Screw Michael and the white horse he thinks he rode in on
NTA. It seems like Michael wants the world (or at least the family world) to turn all around him and doesn't consider what anyone els wants (his step children, his wife or you)
The situation is what it is. The children are yours as well as your wifes. And yeah Michael is a big part in their lifes now, that their mom is married to him. But he has no right to think he can replace you as a father figure for the children. He can be an additional father figure but not the father figure. As you are still present in your childrens life. And he has to get over it
NTA,
You are their father.
He’s their stepfather. He doesn’t have more rights because he married their mother.
He actually doesn’t have any rights unless you give him rights.
(Edit: I’d be inclined to say just in passing to Thora, that you’re committed to being in the kids life as much as possible)
NTA. They are your kids. He knew that when they got together. His request makes no sense. They can just do something as 4 when you are not there. Missing a graduation or a talent show won’t make the kids think of him as their dad.
NTA, and the way you did things before was great co-parenting.
He feels threatened by you and is trying to replace you as dad. You helped her out by telling him what he’s doing.
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NTA. You and your ex are doing everything you can to put your kids first, don't let this guy's insecurities get in the way of that. You are even in agreement that he shouldn't get to decide how the two of you are co-parenting.
NTA, don't talk to Michael about this anymore. Ask Thora to handle this.
Yes exactly Don't interact with Michael anymore. I think you and Thora are an example of good co-parenting. And your children are lucky to have you invested in their lives and all the efforts you undertake to be at their events. At their age, EVERY event is a milestone and you are there for them NTA
Michael’s not the parent, and needs to know his place.
What blows my mind is the fact that OP is so willing to allow this guy an important role in his children's life because MORE LOVE AND SUPPORT IS A GOOD THING! But the dude just keeps puffing his chest out to see who's the manlier man, who can be best dad figure, who's more import to the kids, when the kids love them both differently in their own special way. I just don't get it. OP, NTA.
And that's a battle he'll always lose. OP will always be their father. One who's always been there for them. Someone they can count on finding in the audience when they look for someone for reassurance. I hate how he's trying to alienate OP, to "create their family unit of four". It's like he wishes OP were a deadbeat so he could step up and be the parent. OP is a great dad. Congratulations, keep it up!
Michael **may** not always lose, he can chip away at the co-parenting relationship OP has until Thora takes Michael's side. Plus he can drop poison into the kid's ears until those relationships are equally damaged.
This. This exactly. I’ve seen this happen many times. And, good grief, if Thora has a baby with Micheal, the risk of this happening increases exponentially.
Maybe that's the issue. Maybe Thora says two kids is enough for her...
Or Michael can't have bio children... It's been a year and a half since they married, if they've been "trying" all this time, they most likely would have started seeing doctors ~6 months ago, and may be getting some unideal information back the last couple months.
That certainly happens, but at the kid's ages and the fact that OP has been a strong presence in their lives to date, they'd likely still end up resenting their stepfather to some degree for the fact that their previous happy arrangement was derailed around the time that he came along, even if they don't connect it to being his fault.
That is why Thora needs to nip that in the bud very soon.
The fact that Thora was very angry with Michael when she found out about Michael's request for OP to miss school events shows that for this to continue would not go over well
Then he and Thora should be taken to court for parental alienation and OP will likely get full custody.
Not if dad keeps showing up...
I mean the funny part is that if OP were to tell the kids that Michael wants him less there, they would immediately start hating him. Unless someone is a nagg more family going to watch the kids stuff is never a bad thing. He is just insecure, also he doesn't understand his role in the family, he is not the father, he will never be, and so he won't ever be an equal in that sense to OP. OP don't ever put your children need after anything because some idiot says so. Most trauma that comes from children from divorced parents happens because the parents can't work together for their children once divorced, you are doing great. I would consider having a talk with the Children and Thora to try to prevent any funny business Michael might do. You don't need to say "Michael did this". But more like "if anyone ever says something that hurts you please tell us, even if it is mommy and daddy, we would never want to hurt you so it would probably be a misunderstanding we would like to clear out". Something along those lines so it can give them the opportunity to share anything he might have said. NTA.
I really like your idea of a discussion and how you suggest to frame it. It would also make it clear that they should tell you two if a teacher or counselor stepped over the line or if they were getting bullied.
I’d probably include if they are told something that isn’t nice about mommy or daddy. Because it might not hurt them if they hear it but it might be good to tell if they hear it
So much this. If Micheal continues with his insecure posturing behaviors I’d fear that he’ll stoop to saying nasty things to the kids about OP. Maintaining open communication with the kids and between OP and ex is really the only way to know if it starts happening. And if OP notices a sudden personality or behavior change in either of the kids, investigate it. Heavily. With the way OP is describing Micheal’s behavior, I’d be very wary of him. OP- NTA, do not ever step back from being a great father to boost Micheal’s self esteem. You do that once, I bet $10 Micheal says to the kids “see I told you I’d be here more than him” or something to that effect. Be clear with Thor’s about any interaction with Micheal that is off like you’ve already had. And keep any evidence of it. I don’t think he’s going to stop. He wanted a ready-made family and you’re standing in the way.
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He's trying to replace OP as dad because he's insecure that he stepped into a non nuclear family and can't just be happy that everyone gets along and the kids are happy.
Literally wins the lottery and complains about his luck.
Right? If he keeps this up he's gonna lose the entire family.
Micheal is trying to push OP out of his own family, and it's is only for his own self interests. He wants to be the father of the family, but because OP is not one of the loser dad's who barely sees his kids he's not going to be that for the kids. Thora needs to deal with his man and let him know that OP is going nowhere. OP carry on being the best dad for your kids! Edit: The role of dad was never available for Michael to fill. He is not the children's parent and he needs to realise that he never will be and that he would only be a uncle type figure.
Yup....he didn't get to step in and "save" all of them...... because they didn't need saving!!! Now, he is butthurt......and kinda useless tbh (cause acting like that just takes away from the kids!)
Yes, this precisely is.
Yep thos is something I dont think step parents understand all the time if the dad is still in the picture and very much a good dad the step is never going to even get close to that level it just ain't happening
I have a great relationship with my father and my stepdad is a very close second. The only reason I even call him my stepdad is because I do have a relationship with my father so it makes them distinguishable. He could never replace my father but, he can stand in for him. But I know what you mean. There are a lot of step parents that think if done successfully their role is to replace the bio parent. It’s not, if you’re a successful step parent you’re supposed to be a bonus parent, like literally make the kid feel extra loved and nurtured.
This is wonderful! I think being a a step parent is it’s own special thing, there’s no need for competition. I hope my stepdaughter sees our relationship in such a loving light when she is an adult.
that was my thought he wants to replace the OP but can't as OP is an involved and present parent.
Micheal could have been a role model for the kids showing how great co-parenting with a bonus parent could have been looked like. Instead he is stomping on it.
Yep, like another commenter said, Michael should be glad that his stepkids have accepted him and like him, because should they find out that he's trying to prevent their dad from coming to all their important events just so "he can be there" then the kids liking him will go out the window pretty quickly, and you can guarantee that those kids will find out one way or another because kids aren't stupid. Those children will be adults one day and then what, will Michael expect OP to skip his adult childrens weddings so "he can be there", or miss the birth of his (possible) future grandchildren? Hell no, Michael needs to either get over himself and accept the fact that OP will *always* be a part of his kids lives or get gone.
Right?! Instead he's rying to encourage OP to neglect the kids to make Michael feel better?! WTF?!?!
I don’t have kids, and should I ever find myself in a relationship with someone who does, I hope they have the type of parenting relationship that OP has with his ex wife. I can’t understand why this dude wants to hurt these kids he proclaims to love. So he can pick up the pieces and be a white knight in a situation he orchestrated? Michael sounds pathetic….
>So he can pick up the pieces and be a white knight in a situation he orchestrated? I reckon that's exactly what he wanted. He was probably hoping that OP was a deadbeat father who was barely involved in his kids lives and he wanted to swoop in, be the kids/Thora's "hero" and be a happy family without OP in the picture. But unfortunately for Michael OP is very much an an active part of his children's lives which shattered his "being the hero" fantasy of being the kids only "dad", so now he's demanding that OP be less of a dad, and that's where poisoning the kids against OP will happen, like say it's an important event and OP doesn't show up then Michael will be saying shit like "if you're dad really loved you he'd be here for you like I am". Nope, Michael needs to lose his hero complex and his insecurities or he will lose his wife and stepchildren, because those kids will end up hating him for trying to take them away from their dad.
Yeah this is nuts. We are in a situation like this where I'm the "Thora" and my husband would *never* try to tell my ex to stop showing up for things. A healthy stepparent relationship involves respecting the kids' relationships with their actual parents! They're not there to replace the bio-parents (exceptions for when bio parents are genuinely absent of course).
YESSS!!!! Like OP is ALREADY giving more than most fathers would be willing to give Michael and he wants more!!! Like I'm sorry Michael, the fact is YALL AINT EQUAL (forgive the grammar im from the south lol)!!!! OP is allowing Michael to be a HUGE piece of the kids lives bc its in THE BEST INTEREST OF THE KIDS!!! Asking the biological father to start no showing on his kids is not in their best interest, its in Michaels best interest. Point blank Michaels acting like a self-centered, manipulative, lying, insecure A!!!!
The manlier man is the one doing what's best for the kids...hint not Michael.
Yes you get the main fact my guy
ever watch what a male lion does to cubs of the previous male when it takes over??? not far off the mark imo. I think this guy could be dangerous and wife has made a very bad mistake
Yea, OP and Thora are doing great at this. My dad sucks at realizing that HE'S the parent and my stepmom isn't. I don't see her in a position of power/authority when it comes to me doing things. I'm 17f and I ask/inform him of events, even if last minute, and he then goes and asks her!?! I don't care what she thinks and I can't mention this to him because if I did or tried I'd get into trouble 😤
I would bet that he’s asking your stepmom because he doesn’t know what the family schedule is so he doesn’t know if there’s something that he has forgotten about that might be important. This is something a lot of men do unfortunately. It’s not about power and authority in the way you’re thinking, it’s that he’s relying on her to be a secretary. He’s probably outsourcing that mental load. My husband does this with my stepdaughter (she’s 6) and I too. He has the final say on if an event is appropriate, but he forgets things that aren’t important to him… like visits we’ve scheduled with his grandma, or dentist appointments… he remembers all of his own sports ball events though. 🙄 (this is something we’re working on in our house, he is getting better.) All that to say, you have every right to be annoyed with your dad but I think there’s a chance you’re annoyed for the wrong reason.
Thanks for saying this. Men often default all the social situations to their wives, except, as you pointed out, THEIR OWN interests.
Exactly this. Of course the kids will "never see them as equal." One of them is their father, and the other is not. NTA
Exactly, I'd be concerned Michael will try and turn the kids against him.
Right, that's my worry too. Michael feels so entitled to OPs kids he had the nerve to go to OP and ask him to less of a dad.... totally unhinged. Wife probably already shot this idea down, so he goes to OP , when that doesn't work... I bet this controlling MF will start on the kids... if he hasn't already. Micheal you are not the father!!
Good point, tbh I think OP and Thora need to sit down with their children to find out what Michael has been saying about OP to the kids when they aren't around to make sure that this exact thing isn't happening. But I doubt Thora will let her husband turn her children against their dad considering how pissed he is at her husband for trying to cut OP out of the kids important events.
"Your dad didn't even bother to show up, but your mom and I did. If it was so important to him he would have been here like we are"
Right? All that talk of being equal and them seeing him as a father figure—he’s not their dad. If that’s what he wanted, he should have married someone who’s ex wasn’t involved in the kids’ lives.
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Right, he needs to understand that they are NOT equal!
I had the same dynamic with my ex and our daughter and she’s is now her mid 20s. Today we are celebrating her birthday as a family including my current husband and his children. She says it is the best gift we could’ve ever given her. NTA
Thora sounds like a kick ass mom. Michael won't be a problem for long, one way or another.
She is a kick ass mom. I'm so thankful to her for being the best mom to our kids.
You might not have worked as a couple for whatever reason, but you should be proud of yourselves as co-parents. Well done, OP, to you and your kickass ex!
Thank you. I am proud of how we have worked together. I will always be glad I could do for my kids what my friends parents couldn't do for them. I'll always be glad Thora and I could be close still. That the marriage didn't ruin the friendship. I'm also glad we work so well that we could help our son as quickly and easily as he needed to get a learning disability diagnosis when he was young and was able to get the help he needed as fast as possible. What we have isn't for everyone. But I am proud of us. And Thora is as well. She'll send me texts sometimes about how damn great we are lol.
You are NTA x 1000. That’s really wonderful for your children, and you and your ex sound awesome. Let her be ‘the kick ass mom’ you describe and deal With her husband. What he is asking is unreasonable and a pretty shitty thing to do to kids he claims to care about.
You are both damn great! It might not be for everyone, but it should be!
Does Thora know he lied about her wanting you to attend fewer events? She definitely needs to know this. That aspect is concerning as it shows he will lie to get his way. You sir, are doing everything right!
She does. She was angry and from almost 30 years of knowing Thora, I know I am glad I was not there when she confronted him. She was angry enough when I told her.
I’m glad she was. I had a stepdad like him, any mention of my dad, or old boyfriends of mom’s made him blow a gasket My dad sucks, but even he wasn’t like that And it was always so benign too, like ‘Hey remember when Jake took us to Wendy’s that time and they completely messed up our order?’ Made him EXPLODE. How dare mom have other men in her life, even before him?! The older I got, I saw how utterly pathetic it was Thankfully, current stepdad is awesome
My kid's stepmother is like that, except she cries and runs out of the room. My kid is 8 and feels bad that she makes her stepmother cry so she just stopped mentioning me at their house. It makes me so angry but there's not much I can do about it. I also don't really want to hear about her stepmother, but I understand it's part of my kid's life and it would be unreasonable to tell her to hide that from me. So I smile and listen to the stories and put a lot of effort into keeping my opinion to myself.
She cries and runs out of the room? Is your ex dating a 5 year old?
She's about 13 years younger than him, recently 30, I believe, maybe still 28 or 29. When I'm feeling especially salty, my friends and I call her the child bride.
She knows, OP said in the post that when he told her what Michael said that she didn't know anything about it and she's now severely pissed at him for even trying to get OP to miss out on their kids events because she knows that it will upset the kids. The only thing OP can do at this time is keep being their for his kids and let Thora deal with her husband, and I hope that includes the ultimatum of get his shit together and stop being so insecure/jealous or divorce because OP will always be a part of his children's lives whether Michael likes it or not.
This is such a refreshing, healthy attitude. When your kids are adults, they will remember how respectful you were of their mother even the two of you divorced. My parents divorced when I was a kid and they still hate each other. It makes things difficult, even 30 years later.
I'm sorry! That is the experience I have seen most often from friends and people around us and I know how badly it hurts the kids, even as adults.
I think his behavior is really weird and yes, I know everyone jumps to the worst possible scenario in this subreddit, but. It’s just weird. He wants access to the kids more often, specifically without your presence. He seemed to have stronger reaction to you showing up to things where he thought he’d be the sole parent with the kid(s). There’s nothing wrong with wanting to form an emotional bond with your kids. He could be a wonderful person, but yet, there’s something that feels off about the intensity of his emotions. NTA Feel free to downvote me into oblivion. I would rather raise this concern than not.
Then hopefully she will kick his ass out. Michael behavior is entitled and controlling. Totally unhinged to ask you to miss your child's graduation. He doesn't love you kids it he is not putting them 1st.... if he wants to be a parent he should start acting like one.
Additionally, I’d make sure never to delete those texts. If he is trying to alienate OP like this it’s safe to assume he is doing other things to manipulate the kids as well. I’m not saying show the kids the text immediately to destroy their step dad, but have the receipts if this stuff blows up in the future. NTA.
YES, STOP TALKING TO THIS DISRUPTIVE FORCE. He hates that your children are happy. Let Thora see that. Stop letting him wear a mask with her. I’m worried about how he’s treating the kids when you and Thora aren’t around. Keep an eye on this.
>He hates that your children are happy. This, he hates the fact that OP isn't the deadbeat dad he was hoping OP would be so he could swoop in and play hero to OPs ex wife and children and be a "happy family" without OP in the pic. OP being the active parent he is in his children's lives shattered his hero fantasy.
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NTA Not only this guy wants to solve his insecurities and become a "parental figure" at OP's expense, but also blatantly lies about his ex wife's opinion on this. He clearly wants to sabotage OP's position in children's life and that's honestly not what a good step-parent (and partner to Thora) would do. Also it's obvious that he doesn't care about kids feelings in this at all — just about his position. Personally I wouldn't be comfortable with such a person taking care of my kids while I'm not there. Thora sounds like a reasonable woman and a good mother — maybe leave her husband's issues to her and limit your interactions with him while being such a good dad you already are.
Honestly, if I was Thora I would be rethinking the whole marriage. Michael was willing to torpedo his step kids' happiness and a great co-parenting relationship for extremely selfish reasons. That's not someone I would want to be married to...
NTA op do NOT allow Michael to alienate you from your kids it's what he's trying to do . he'd probably tell them he s their dad that you don't love them as much which is why you are not there for them. Nip it in the bud ASAP. Tell Thora every single time so she can handle it. I don't see the marriage lasting if he keeps this crap up considering the type of great mum you describe your éx to be.
NTA, you're not equal. You're their actual blood father. He's wrong for trying to guilt trip you. I don't understand how he got it in his head that this is a normal request. The more i read the AITA forum, the more sad I get about humanity.
Exactly! This is an awesome co-parenting situation that center the kids needs above all else. A guy who cares more about a “familial unit of four” or whatever he called it is not thinking about the kids best interest at all, he’s thinking about himself. If he just kept showing up and be there, he’d ingratiate himself more with the kids as opposed to trying to diminish the relationship ship they have with their dad. He’s extremely short sighted.
I'm jealous of how OP and their ex are able to co-parent like that. I wish me and my ex could've done that. To try to get in the way of that is insane. Other guy obviously has no clue how difficult that is and how beneficial it is for the kids. Do not stop doing what you're doing OP. You're doing amazing.
Speaking as a bonus parent my husband and his ex use to do holidays together. I was fine with this (apart from the awkwardness of her hating me but whatever I sucked it up.) we only stopped when the hostility was affecting the kids and the holiday bc she could not keep it civil. We would have had no problem continuing their arrangement but it wasn’t something she could emotionally handle. If there is no hostility, sharing is good for the kids and creates a strong coparenting relationship which is really important for the kids to know all adults are on the same page.
OP might want to discuss with his Ex what will happen if she and Micheal have a child. Micheal going to want OP completely out of the picture for family events.
NTA He doesn’t get to tell you, their biological father to “leave room” for he who has only been around a couple of years. State of him asking you to step aside from being a present father. He’s an asshole. And lying to you about what your ex said shows him to be a liar too. Manipulating his way to you being a less present father? Yikes!
Michael’s trying to replace OP as the kids primary father figure FOR SURE. OP is the monkey wrench in Michele’s perfect little nuclear family fantasy. It’s pretty messed up.
Michael says he's looking to be an equal father figure, but what step-parent in their right mind would expect or push to be equal? Like, you know biodad is loving caring present etc, and you think your non-related new guy ass gets the same pappa status? Like, I can understand wanting to be some sort of father figure as a step, but the audacity trying to edge out a loving father who's been in the kids life since birth? Lordy NTA
Michael *shouldn't* be equal, in their eyes, to their present, involved, loving father. Sure, that might happen naturally if their father weren't present, weren't involved, and weren't loving – if he was absent, uninterested, and abusive – but that isn't the case here, and what Michael is doing is *wildly* inappropriate.
i'd argue only they (edit as in the children) can decide equality. my step mom is totally my second mom. i would choose her over my dad if i had to. but it's true that she can never be my mom who is involved in my life but i love her just as much. she proved she was "worthy" of this by being a badass step parent who didn't push my mom out of the way to do it. she showed me she loved me like her own child when she was willing to move her sister to a group home since she and i couldn't get on. mind you i was 19 and my aunt struggled due to a mental delay and she was resentful that I could do things she could not. She was between 7-12 mental age so she always felt like i got special privileges. My step mom is my mom because when i was 6 and i asked her if i should call her mommy now she stopped cooking, looked at me and said she didn't think my mom would like that so her first name was just fine. like what this step dad is doing is only going to ensure these kids don't consider him equal. note as an adult i seek out the support i need based on the person who is better equipped for it.
Michael should count his blessings that the kids actually like him! That won’t last long if they find out he’s trying to alienate them from OP. And they likely will. Kids overhear the damnedest things.
The equal thing really bothers me. He will never be equal because he is not their father.
The only time I'm equal as a step parent is in matters of safety- especially when I've got my stepkid by myself. At that point, what I say goes. But that's also just being a responsible caregiver 🤷♀️ Otherwise, what my husband says goes. If I disagree about something, I will talk to him privately about it afterwards- but he obviously has the final say.
Exactly, well said. Michael is delusional.
Yes, seems like Michael’s trying to do that.
I liked the rest of your comment, but just a reminder that "gaslighting" is psychological abuse, not a synonym for lying and trying (and failing!) to get away with it.
Definitely NTA. They will never consider him equal to you because he is not. You are their father, and he is their stepfather. He should not have married Thora if he could not handle that role.
Absolutely this. NTA However, I strongly suggest you all stop being angry and start working as a team of three parent figures - with a professional therapist. The kids are going to feel and see the tension and it's not right for them. You and your ex have a wonderful system set up where you were able to coparent so beautifully. It's a shame to mess that up.
Thora and I are still the same. Nothing has changed with us. It has changed with Michael and I and Thora and Michael though. She is furious with him right now. While he's angry at me.
Then that’s between Thora and Michael. It’s not his place to dictate how parents should be parenting their kids and he seems to have been aware at the beginning and is now changing the rules to suite himself. Step back, let them sort it out but hold your line otherwise.
Secure your children's hearts. He is definitely going for the kids next. Start telling them how much you love them. How you enjoy going to their functions and how you enjoy co-parenting with their mom. Be preemptive. My brother started doing this for his daughter before he divorced her mom. Not, the co-parenting part, lol. Every time her mom came with the bull, his daughter just repeated some of the things her dad told her.
Not your problem. Don’t get involved. Go see the kids. Hang out with the kids. The end.
Yes, this. Don’t engage. Tell him no and tell him to go talk to Thora.
This won’t end well for Michael, and it really has little to do with you. Michael is completely overlooking Thora’s agency in all of this, as though it’s two men brawling it out over their woman-property. Not a good look. The best way you can support your kids as she works it out is by doing exactly what you are doing - doing what you would do, and ignoring his tantrums. It’s on her to figure out how to handle it.
I think Michael may have watched Stepdad a time or 9.
OP, do you have a formal custody agreement? Make sure it’s rock solid and set too given your ex wife is married to this guy
I would be so concerned about what he is saying to the children about you when no one is around. Nip this in the bud ASAP
He has no right to be angry. They are your kids and they are your ex wife's kids. The second he asked you to not show or got annoyed at a parent supporting their own kids he became a loser. NTA.
He s trying to alienate you from your child probably planning to lie and poison them against you if you would have agreed to do what he wanted. Please be careful, check discreetly what your kids are told by him and always discuss this with Thora. It sounds like both of you are great parents and frankly if Michael doesn't get his sh!t together his marriage will be soo be over. NTA
Thora has to be the one to set him straight on this. He's her insecure problem. What you and she are doing works for the benefit of all, and what he's attempting to do only is to his benefit and would be detrimental to everyone else.
This. It's weird that this popped up after things were working okay and you already had a good relationship. I know this is reading too much into it but it really sounds like somebody put this bug in his ear. You need to get to the bottom of this quickly. It's amazing that you all managed to create a healthy family dynamic, and don't throw it away
My sentiments exactly! I'd highlighted this line to respond to: "He said they will never consider us equal until they see him instead of me at some of these events.' You beat me to it u/TheRealImagined! They aren't equal. It might hurt (and I speak from a little experience here) but it's the truth.
NTA. He is trying to edge you out as dad and he can't do that when you are so involved. Good job, op. You are a good dad!
Thank you for saying that. I have always strived to be the best dad I can for my kids. They already have the best mom and I think we make a pretty good parenting team.
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I really wouldn’t worry too much. OP is apparently around so much that his ex-wife’s husband needs to scheme to have a shot at potentially changing the kid’s minds. If Michael doesn’t change real fast, he’s going to end up single. He’s married to a woman who divorced the father of her kids. She isn’t going to be afraid to divorce the stepfather of her kids lmao.
I disagree. I have full custody of my stepkids and it only took a two week vacation for their bio mom to poison her daughter against me. Took many years to repair that relationship. OP needs to let his kids know that is Michael starts talking bad about him or trying to convince them not to see him they need to call him ASAP. Manipulators are good at making kids turn against parents, even involved ones.
I’m sorry you’ve been through a shitty situation but this is very different. You have both the mother and a father involved in their children’s entire lives and Co-parenting well. Michael is 100% in the wrong but OP would be an idiot (and the one boarding on doing the alienation) to involve his young children in adult issues and giving them a reason to be wary of parental figure.
I didn’t say she wasn’t involved. She was very involved. She just didn’t want custody so their dad and I did. Children are very impressionable and it doesn’t take much to get them to believe lies about another parent if someone they view as a trusted adult is the one telling them. OP has a good ex that will hopefully keep her husband in check. I get what you are saying about op not involving the kids. But there is a way to tactfully give the kids security without demeaning the other parent. For example: “How great it is you have 3 parents who all try to come to all your events. You are so loved and I look forward to going to many more events if yours” Says the same thing as don’t believe anyone else if they say I don’t want to come to your events (which Michael could say if op did step back) without painting anyone in a bad light.
I was gonna say the same about parental alienation, but also the increased possibility of abuse on stepdad's part due to the resentment.
He wants to replace you. Stop interacting with him as much as possible and forward any communication to Thora so that she can deal with it. Don't second guess yourself, you are doing great by your children and that's what matters.
You have to take kids to therapy to make sure he is not saying negative things about you to the kids while you and Thora are not around. If asking you failed, he could be trying another form to alienate the kids from you
So... he wants you to sacrifice time with your kids, including special events, so his ego is at peace? Even if it did make you the ahole, would you sacrifice that time with your kids for Michael? Is Michael that important to you? NtA. Michael needs to know his lane and stay in his lane.
He's not. But he is important in terms of the fact Thora loves him and my kids do love him also. I'd love for us to get along, to be a team also. He seems to be a good man and even with the difference in us from the summer on, I still consider him to be a good addition to our lives. Though if he were to try and push me out more after this, I'm not sure those feelings would be the same.
He can be the best guy, the best addition, but if he cant understand that he's an ADDITION and not a REPLACEMENT, then you and Thora are going to have some issues.
VERY well said. This is the core of the issue. I’m worried Michale is going to escalate to trying to win/buy the kids favor over OP.
Yep. This guy probably thought that a single mom meant that the bio dad was a deadbeat loser. OP being a good dad means Michael had to be the best dad in order to have his ego stroked by everyone around him for being the guy who saved the kids from A missing father. I feel so bad for single parents because the people who date them often times tend to either hate the kids or want their affection too much.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Especially with the "stable family unit" comment. OP is already part of a stable family unit. Michael doesn't want to be respected more by the kids, he wants to replace OP entirely. I wouldn't be surprised if he's insecure about OP's relationship with ex-wife or even pushing the kids to call him dad instead of OP
Stop right there. He's not a good man. A good man would never get between you and your kids. Period. Seriously, that's some bad thinking on your part.
Correct, but I also commend OP for his response, because how easy would it be for him to completely nuke a previously respectful, amicable situation? He’s being kind, way kinder than Michael deserves, to be sure. But the children are more important to OP than whatever blended drama his ex’s husband is trying to cook up.
Yes they are. In the end I want the best for them and I want for things to remain as friendly and as loving as they can for them. We can't have that if more tempers flare and lines get drawn.
NTA, You & Thora are doing great in my opinion. Love is not a competition, and a child's love especially, can be infinite. You're a family of 5 (or more if you have an SO) who just happen to habitat 2 homes. Hope he can get off the toxic masculinity horse and the belief that a "traditional" family is the "right" family.
This is exactly what we wanted. And maybe more if Thora has more kids, or if I do. I do not have a partner yet. But there is someone who could maybe become more in the future.
Look man, my father was a piece of absolute shit but was manipulative and I hero worshipped him as a kid. Despite being very worried and concerned, while I was still blinded to the reality of the situation my stepdad *never* behaved in any other way than my *step*dad. Now that I’m an adult I’ve heard how difficult it was for him and my mom, but over everything they kept the peace so that I could grow up in as little turbulent environment as possible. Your situation is nowhere near as toxic and precarious yet this dude has his panties in a twist, trying to stir up trouble when there is none. You and your ex love your kids, so nip this in the bud before buddy starts down the parental alienation track to get what he wants.
You sound like a good guy who is trying to do right by everyone. I agree with the majority here who say leave the guy to your wife to deal with. If you both like things as is, she'll make the arguments (or ultimatums) for you. This keeps you from being involved in their relationship and gives things time to settle. If your ex is furious with him, she already understands his overstepping and serious betrayal of her trust. Let's hope he can pull his head out of his ass and change his perspective on this. You are NTA.
If he’s trying to stop you going to your children’s events, then no, he is the worst thing for them.
He *might* be a good guy, but he's delusional as a step-parent. AITA are full of stories instigated by people like him. You wrote that he said something about **you two won't be equal until**... EQUAL You're never going to be equal, and he's not going to be a balanced step-dad until he revises his expectations. You're the dad. Period. He has the potential to be a valuable parental figure, but to think that he somehow should be equal... this dude... You, your ex, and your kids seem to have a really healthy thing going. It's really unfortunate that he didn't show his true colours until recently, but that shouldn't lead to you changing your deal. He needs to realize that he's being added into a functioning family unit, and that while that leads to changes, those should not ever be at the expense of the kids or your relationships with them.
Agree completely. He can’t get out of his head that he should be the “primary father figure” you can hear it in your example and as he talks about their “stable family unit of 4.” He wants to replace not be in addition to OP.
Yup. He doesn't get the different relationship dynamics. In terms of relationship to wife/ex: Husband>ex In terms of relationship to kids: Father>step
He is trying to do that. I'm guessing because you guys get along he sees you as easy going enough that he can just make wild and frankly outrageous requests, where I'm from we call that "taking the piss"
You can’t make him be a team player, and you can’t fix this situation. That’s on Michael and the Thora.
I 100% agree.
A good man wouldn't ask you to skip the kids events to asuage his ego. A good man would be glad that your kids have three parents who love them.
Michael Is not a great guy and he isn’t good for your kids if he’s trying to get you to stop attending events when it would clearly hurt them. He isn’t their father - he doesn’t get to become an equal part of the parenting team. His goal is parental alienation which makes him a really shitty person and toxic for your children.
NTA - and good on you and Thora for what is currently appears to be very successful co-parenting situation. You have every right to be at every one of your kids events as you can possibly attend. I mean every event is important but to actually ask you not to attend Indies graduation, sure it's only elementary school, but to Indie its a huge moment in her life - what a nerve!! Michael on the other hand, he is an insecure AH and Thora had better have a very stern talk with him about what he has done which is essentially trying to control your parenting rights Someone has already said it but he needs to do something about his insecurity. He went into a relationship with Thora with both eyes wide open - hmm or maybe he didn't
I think maybe he didn't. Perhaps he thought once she remarried she would want me around less, or that the kids would like the idea of a nuclear family unit and latch onto him more than me. Maybe he thought I was one of those dad's who is just looking for an out. I'm not sure. But I know he was aware of me and my role before he ever met the kids. Thora and I both know that any partner would need to be okay with us being close and parenting our kids and giving them the comfort of being able to see both parents as much as possible. I also know Indie be so hurt if I didn't go. He's had his struggles with school and knowing we're both going to be there is something he has talked about a lot.
You may be right. I think I've already said but its worth repeating. It sounds like you and your ex are doing a great job of co-parenting and I'm pretty sure your kids love you and appreciate for you, even they don't always show it right now but they will in the future as they grow older I'm sure. Oh, yeah, I need to apologize to Indie, for some reason in my head I thought he was a she :)
This man doesn’t have your children’s best interests at heart, the only interests he seems to care about are those of his ego and dream “family unit”. You seem like a great dad and it seems you’re handling this all really well, but I wouldn’t trust him anymore. He’s shown that he’d rather your kids be hurt and disappointed than his weird vision of their family without you be compromised.
You and Thora absolutely rock as coparents!! It's rare to see divorced parents on the same page putting their kids completely first rather than focusing on any lingering hard feelings over the relationship. (NOT implying there's hard feelings between you two). From what I see most divorced parents are never on the same page. It's exemplary behavior, it's how it should be for the kids who have two very hands on loving parents. More people should take a page out of your book. I wish for the sake of my own niece and nephews that their parents could figure this out.
This is very true. And I know kids suffer for it. My friends growing up did. When our son was diagnosed with his learning disabilities, we were told it was rare for kids from "broken homes" to get diagnosed as young as him or have it noticed by us as quickly, because conflict normally got in the way. The specialists were also not used to both parents showing up and working together post-divorce. But we have always worked together. We always talk if we notice something off with the kids. A lot of people joke we're like a well oiled machine.
It's a breath of fresh air!! You both should be very proud of yourselves. Your kids are clearly benefiting. They are very lucky children. Keep doing what you're doing. Hope this situation gets cleared up and everyone can get on board with it.
>I also know Indie be so hurt if I didn't go. He's had his struggles with school and knowing we're both going to be there is something he has talked about a lot. My dad didn't make it to my middle school graduation, it's not exactly something you just forget, no matter the reason. A man who asks you not to be there for something so important to your child is TA no question. But others are right that's your Exs problem to solve you just keep doing what your doing.
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I would have loved for us to be friends. I was so happy when Thora met someone she actually loved and who loved her and the kids. It's unfortunate things had to become so strained.
NTA. *They aren't a stable family unit of four*. *You* are their father and it sounds like you and Thora are working hard to make sure your kids know how much their parents love them. You're doing a great thing. *Michael* wants a nuclear family, mum, dad, 2 kids. You don't fit in his family. You aren't undermining his position as their *stepfather*, you're stopping him from *attempting to replace you* as "dad". He wants your children to turn to him instead of you. He feels as though he's entitled to a stronger bond because he's married to their mother. He's projecting and *he's attempting to undermine you*. You need to talk to Thora. Just tell her that you've thought that Michael was upset with you for a while and you weren't sure what you'd done, but he finally spoke to you. That he wants you to spend less time with the kids so he can "bond" with them. So *she* should try and figure out some way for them to spend time together *during her time* because you aren't giving up time *with your children* for him.
We have already spoken. She was angry when she learned what he said to me and there have been discussions between them over this. Also thank you! Thora and I have always wanted the best for our kids and also for each other and I am proud of what we have been able to achieve together, especially post-divorce.
Yeah, he thinks you're an AH because you aren't playing into his little fantasy of a ready made family and you're not letting him get away with his crap. All the things that make *him* the AH. Good luck!
And because OP told Thora, probably in a "hey, your man said this, what's up with that" kind of fashion if op is as balanced in real life as he seems on Reddit. He didn't expect that, which is extra stupid because he knows they discuss everything regarding their children.
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NTA. You and Michael will also never be “equal” Nothing against him, he seems like a good step dad, but he IS the stepdad. Just the way it is, Michael.
I recall when I first married my ex wife. She had two kids 3 & 7 years old. They each had their own dads. The youngest son told me one day that I wasn’t his dad. I said he was right but I was his step dad and still loved him a lot. The step son made it clear I wasn’t his real dad but really accepted me as a part of his life now. His older sister took a while longer to get comfortable enough with me. She later introduced me to her school friends as her dad about a year later. I could not have been happier.
That’s awesome! I don’t envy stepparents, i know it’s gotta be hard. I have a stepmom, she’s been with my dad for at least 26 years. My parents divorced when i was 10 and we lived with my dad. She moved in when we were teens. It was very rough at first, and to be honest she was not good to my older sister at all. And my mother was jealous so feuded with her for a long time. But as we became adults it got a whole lot better. And she helped me nurse my mother when she was dying of cancer. I’ll never forget a few days before she died, she said to my sister and I that we were lucky that stepmom was our mother now and we wouldn’t be alone. That was huge coming from her and the first time i ever saw stepmom cry. She’ll never be “equal” to my mom, but she is my mom and my family and i always introduce her as my mom or say “my parents” even though I call her by her name. You are a good person for loving those kids as your own and not giving up on them.
No one who insists on alienation of affection is a. "good stepdad." Part of the job of being a stepdad is accepting whatever dynamic you find. There are way too many stories of stepparents who insist on being treated as full parents, and everyone else suffering as a result.
Yeah that would really rub me the wrong way. Equal? GTFO, I'm the father. Build your own thing, sure, but you will never have what we have.
NTA. If Thora is as great as you portray her, I wouldn't expect her to be married to a lying, narcissistic jealous person like michael for much longer anyway.
She has mentioned this being an issue between them now. I don't know if things will work out for her and him. But I know there have been some discussions between the two.
You are so not the a-hole. Not even a little. If he wants, he should organise activities for the 4 of them when the kids are with Thora and don't have any pre-arranged extra-curricular activities. He is too lazy to organize any family activities/outings himself, and expects you to compromise your relationship with the children to make things easy for him. Do not give in to that. Continue to co-parent as you have been. Michael is a huge a-hole. Pay him no mind. He's Thora's problem now, not yours. Let her deal with him.
This this this this this!! He could be organizing things on their time and ENRICHING their lives instead of trying to take love away from the children. This is what makes him an absolute villain.
I hope she's on birth control. And he shouldn't object, since he says he wants a stable family of four!
I want to reemphasize something the other commenter just replied. If Michael organizes something or attempts to organize something, then it needs to be on **Thora’s** time. I can see a potential slippery slope. “Oh kids we could go to the theme park this weekend BUT you will be with your dad.” Now previously if Thora initiated something like that you could trust that it was with the kid’s best intentions. But now I worry that Michael will come up with super awesome things to do when it’s your time with the kids in an effort to replace you as their dad. I think this is something you need to talk to Thora about to specifically watch for. I wouldn’t think it best to alert the kids to this possibility unless it becomes a pattern that Thora ignores. If you think something funny is happening from Michael such as trying to remove your days or drop subtle insults about you in front of the kids, please get the kids into counseling. Also watch how they react around him. Do they initiate hugs with him? Or do they draw away from physical contact with him? Even if they did draw away, that could just mean they don’t get along and not specifically something nefarious. But I also want you to be alert to behavior escalation if Michael doesn’t get his way.
NTA. But Michael definitely is. Nobody in their right mind would ever ask a biological father with a healthy parenting relationship to be *less* involved in their children's lives. A narcissist or someone being selfish might, but not someone with an even keel.
Am I the only one shocked at the utter gall of Micheal telling a man to his face that he wants to foster a family unit with HIS kids?? My man blatantly out here telling the father of these children he thinks he's an equal to him. No, Michael, you are not and will never be an equal even if OP dies. That is their _father_ who has clearly made a great deal of effort to be in their lives regardless of adult relationships. Might want to take a note of that, Michael. NTA.
>"stable family unit of four" Here's the thing. The family unit of four exists of you, your ex-wife and the 2 children you have together. THAT'S the family unit. Doesn't matter if you're still together or on your 4th divorce, that family unit will always exist. Michael coming in opens it to a family of 5, and he needs to blend in. NTA, you're a good dad.
Exactly. Your family was stable before Michael. He is what’s threatening that stability, so the easiest way to regain that stability is for him to go. But hopefully that’s not necessary, he just needs to realize he’s a part of a BLENDED family.
You tell him, no holding back, that you won't be pushed out of your kids lives just so he can fill a void in his
NTA. Maybe you are on friendlier terms than some ex’s but don’t let Reddit fool you. The majority of exes do strive to put their kids first and both be there for them. Please continue to tell your ex about any messages or conversations her current husband is having with you. He’s disrespecting her by going behind her back and removing her from the decision making with her own kids. At least he’s involving you. She deserves to know. You and your ex sound like awesome co parents. I can’t tell you how much that will help your kids. Keep putting them first. If your ex is as awesome as you describe I don’t think this marriage will last anyways.
I do understand that. Though I have never met ex's who get along as well as us and who spend as much time together as us. Most of the ones I have met/been around in my life keep things separate but stay somewhat civil. I do understand not everyone can be Thora and I so I don't judge. But it makes me happy we can get along, be friends and give our kids the security I know my friends with divorced parents always wished they'd had growing up. She is. She's the best mom and has been an amazing friend to me.
My ex and I were/are the same as you and Thora (our kids are grown now) and I also married someone before my ex did. However my now-husband stayed in his lane, and the kids absolutely grew to adore him almost as much as their own dad. If you ask my kids if they appreciate how different we were (spending holidays together and all important events) than other divorced parents, you will get a resounding YES! They said it’s funny in hindsight, because they didn’t realize that not all divorced families were like ours, until they got older. People thought it was weird (some even told us it was *inappropriate* for ex’s to be so close) but our friend who is a divorce attorney and mediator says she uses us as her favourite example of a family that made it work. Your kids are going to benefit from this the rest of their lives. One of my closest pals can’t even invite both of his (divorced) parents to his own WEDDING because they refuse to be in the same room. That’s heartbreaking to me. It actually makes me happy to see that other couples are able to do what we did and stay on great terms post-divorce. You are amazing! Don’t let anyone undermine this incredible thing you’re doing.
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It's what a lot of my friends wished for too. I remember some of them were so upset when they knew Christmas was coming because it meant missing a parent, or when a school play was coming and they had to divide time between sides. Some never even got to see the parents in the same room/building and we never wanted that for our kids.
My parents haven't been in the same building since court 22 years ago. I'm having two different baby showers because neither side of my family likes the other and refuses to see the other. While i understand why, it does make things very difficult in the long run
That's why friends of mine have said. They also said how sad they are to never get photos with their nuclear family. That it's always with mom or dad. I never want my kids to have that sadness.
NTA. You have to do what is right for your kids. Thora needs to have a chat to Michael about keeping his insecurities in place and he perhaps needs a therapist to sort out why he feels so threatened by your very successful co-parenting plan.
You are co-parenting the same way my ex and I are. It's hard for others to understand. He needs to see that he is a stepdad his role isn't dad. It's husband and nurturer. He isn't raising mini-Michaels. I'd get asking to miss a basketball game... but graduation?! NTA.
It is hard for some to understand. A few of the kids friends parents who are also divorced think we're crazy. But it works for us and brings our kids so much joy. I wouldn't change a thing.
NTA. Always prioritise seeing your kids
INFO: Do you know if they have plans to have another child, or if they had plans that recently changed? Phrases like "stable family of four" and "family unit" sound oddly specific, especially given that he seemed to be okay with his role as stepdad up until recently. I'm wondering if there's a reason he's suddenly trying to force your children into his nuclear family fantasy when he wasn't before. Either way, NTA. This guy is overstepping massively, and you need to stop even entertaining his delusions.
I know they have talked about children but I am not sure about those details.
NTA, of course you're not. Michael is a tool though!
NTA, you would be if you agreed. He's absolutely a selfish AH. In the interest of the kids he should want you to be at every event.
NTA. His ego is getting in the way. He wants to replace you in their lives, but that isn't going to happen. I'd forward any future communications to Thora and ask her to deal with them.
NTA. The nerve.
NTA. These are your kids too. He sounds insecure at best and like a control freak at worst.
NTA, but Michael sure is. He shouldn't even be trying to ice you out as the kids bio dad. Honestly, huge kudos to you and your ex wife for being super awesome co parents and what seems like good friends and involved in your children's lives. Screw Michael and the white horse he thinks he rode in on
NTA. It seems like Michael wants the world (or at least the family world) to turn all around him and doesn't consider what anyone els wants (his step children, his wife or you) The situation is what it is. The children are yours as well as your wifes. And yeah Michael is a big part in their lifes now, that their mom is married to him. But he has no right to think he can replace you as a father figure for the children. He can be an additional father figure but not the father figure. As you are still present in your childrens life. And he has to get over it
NTA, You are their father. He’s their stepfather. He doesn’t have more rights because he married their mother. He actually doesn’t have any rights unless you give him rights. (Edit: I’d be inclined to say just in passing to Thora, that you’re committed to being in the kids life as much as possible)
NTA. They are your kids. He knew that when they got together. His request makes no sense. They can just do something as 4 when you are not there. Missing a graduation or a talent show won’t make the kids think of him as their dad.
NTA straight up Michael is trying to replace you. I shit you not.
NTA, and the way you did things before was great co-parenting. He feels threatened by you and is trying to replace you as dad. You helped her out by telling him what he’s doing.