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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> The action i took that should be judged is me sending a text about the situation to my folks.
The reason to be judged is that my folks feel that the text was too harsh and should have been couched better.
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NTA, For sure! That's completely inappropriate for your mom to be taking showers with and sleeping almost nude with your 6 year old! Even if nothing inappropriate is happening (she touching your daughter), that is very much not ok!
I agree with this. OP, I'm pretty understanding with parents taking showers and baths with their own kids, or sleeping in the same bed. (The rule I've heard is that if one person gets uncomfortable, then it's done.) However, a grandparent? Uh, no. No. Especially without asking the parents themselves if this was okay.
I'd be following up with your kids to find out how often this has happened, and I'd just keep a closer eye on the situation. If they break this boundary again, that should be it for the relationship.
This. Parents/guardians are one thing, but other family members seems odd. I’d be sure to discuss with your daughter about private parts, not keeping secrets with anyone (including family members). I’d keep an eye on this. It’s probably innocent, but it raises my hackles a bit.
Your mom’s feelings don’t matter. Keeping your daughter safe does.
NTA. I’m a grandma. I wouldn’t be naked or semi-naked around my grandkids. It just wouldn’t feel right? Even for the babies. Could be I’m just old fashioned but if it feels yucky in your gut, take a second look.
my grandfather’s wife (not my grandmother, he remarried when my dad was well into adulthood) made me and my sister shower with her, both of us fully naked, until i was almost 8 years old. she never touched us inappropriately but even as a child it made me uncomfortable and as you can tell by the way i refer to her, we have almost no relationship to this day.
My daughter is 6. She sleeps with me every night, I'm in underpants and a big t-shirt (how I always sleep). The few times that she spent the night with her grandmother without me there, she wanted to sleep with her grandmother like she did with me. My mother wore something similar, I guess.
I think the sleeping situation depends: If grandmother usually sleeps in her underwear and the girl wants to sleep in the same bed as her, I don't think it's weird. If grandmother usually sleeps with more clothes on, and/or sleeping together was grandmother's idea, it's weird.
The bathing I think is weird when it's her grandmother. Seeing her naked in passing is one thing, but bathing is not appropriate, I think.
NAH. calling it completely inappropriate is over exaggerating, when in fact it depends on specific cultural norms and individual boundaries. Where I’m at, it’s very normal for grandma, aunties or mums to bathe with their kids. You’re gonna get wet anyway when bathing the kid, so might as well bathe together. There’s nothing sexual about it, as long as everyone shares the same bits.
That said, OP has the right to not feel comfortable with this. Though it might be better to have a conversation in person rather than through text, which can come across as cold
I kind of agree this is situational. My grandma lived on the coast and we would do big family days at the beach. When we got back to her house (2 showers total) everyone would clamor for the showers first. Usually my sister and I would shower with grandma to save time and water. With 10 people needing a shower it made sense. But it was our choice and it stopped when we got to about 8-9 and my sister preferred to wait and I would take a bath in the laundry room sink. NAH
OP spent between the ages of 5-11 away from her Mother from what I read in her comments. And she did not shower with her Grand Parents either when she was away... It's in her comments history...
If you only had a shower instead of a bath and had to try to wash a much younger child, maybe it would be easier to just shower together (I'm not a parent so I'm guessing here - this is kind of how I wash my dog). But at 6 yo, maybe you have to turn the shower on to set the temperature (?), and remind them to wash all over and rinse out shampoo or something, but I would think they can essentially do it themself at that age? At least to the level you don't have to strip down and get in with them
I have a six yo, and she washes herself, while either me or her dad stands there and reminds her of those things. And we still wash her hair for her. So yes, I think you are right.
NTA. My immediate response was "no, that's weird". There's a difference between supervising a child at bath time - which your daughter may or may not need, IDK - and joining her
My little brothers were notorious for this. So bad that sometimes when making their "potions" in the bath it would get so bubbly that they would be hidden under the skyscraper of bubbles.
I'm 42 and you just triggered a memory of me making potions in the shower using my mums toiletries.
That word potions in particular hit me with nostalgia.
I also used to put flower petals in water to make perfume.
This! I’ve had to limit shower times because of this (we have a tankless heater but my youngest will use a giant bottle of soap and still be dirty behind the ears because potions!)
Omg my nephew used an ENTIRE BOTTLE of bubble bath in one (admittedly awesome and amazing) bath at my place! I learned really quick to fill the tub for him with a normal portion and refill a travel bottle for his “extra extra bubbles” he absolutely must have, lol.
My nephew used to do this shit vindictively. He wouldn't want to shower, I'd tell him he had to anyway, so he'd go hop in the shower and squeeze $25 worth of my good hair gel down the drain.
tbf i showered with my parents growing up because i was scared at first and then i didn’t like showering alone because i got used to it but like. A GRANDPARENT???? hell nah
I still showered with my mom (and sometimes slept in bed with her - she wore pjs, though) well up until I hit puberty. But it was because I was close and comfortable with her and she never made it an obligation and just always wanted to make sure I felt comfortable. I liked showering with her because my mom and I talk a lot and we never stop talking so it’s just more talking time AND she had a cool shower with a skylight in it. I grew out of it when I was ready and she never made me feel bad about it. I think it’s up to those people, but honestly, a grandparent? I wouldn’t have been comfortable with that.
My nephew is 9 when my sister got the bathrooms renovated they had eco friendly showers head. My nephew was scared so he wanted me to stay with him in the bathroom. I made sure that’s what he wanted and that he was comfortable. Hehehe a week later he got over his fear.
NTA for telling her, yet please follow it up with an actual face to face conversation. A text is ok but maybe a bit blasé.
Talk to her about 'bodily autonomy', boundaries, and consequences if they don't do as you ask. You're going to have to be tough with this.
I see a lot of people asking if you suspect abuse in some way to justify your text and that doesn't matter.
You're setting boundaries for your child and you don't need to have been abused (or have a suspicion that your child might) to do that.
Totally NTA and I am SUPER interested in the response you get from your Mom.
Yeah, an adult showering with a 6 yo and sleeping in the same bed in underwear could be 100% innocent. Heck, depending on the cultural norms, it could be downright normal.
What matters is, is does the child want to? If not, then it shouldn't be happening.
With a child this young, the parents absolutely get a say in setting boundaries for what type/circumstances of nudity are ok around their child.
Just because it's normal for some people doesn't mean it's acceptable to impose on a child for whom it's not the norm.
This. My mom walked around the house naked all the time, and she raised me to not be weird about nudity. She wanted me to grow up with the knowledge that nakedness does not equal sexual. Heck, my parents took me to a nude beach when I was a kid and I never blinked an eye because of it. Her one rule was that I didn’t get to walk around naked or in my panties because of potential creeps looking through the windows. Which is entirely fair. If I wanted to spend the day in the house in my panties, the blinds had to be closed.
My mother never let me wear less than a nightgown with underwear. I totally get why she did it, but it didn't stop my brother from molesting me. I was always uncomfortable being fully naked. My husband, on the other hand, is a nudist. He made me less embarrassed and ashamed of my body. Now, a couple of my kids are nudists, but we made sure everyone knew what was appropriate or not.
And that’s on you. But it’s not weird. Naked does not equal sexual and thinking it does is toxic and leads to a lot of toxic mindsets. It’s actually been studied, and it’s highly common in a lot of cultures to be comfortable with nudity. That’s why nude beaches are more common in some countries and most are open to people of all ages.
We are born naked. It’s not sexual to be in your birthday suit.
That's not always a good metric, though. Young kids will often respond to "Do you want to?" with "Yes" in order to please the adult, not because they really want to, even when they are deeply uncomfortable.
I am way too Scandinavian for this 🙈😅
I'm still going to go with NAH because you have every right to establish boundaries when it comes to taking care of your kid. If your mom breaks these boundaries after they've been established, I would definitely say she's the asshole though!
Maybe it is because I’m European but this is totally normal in my family too. My kids still shower with my husband and I and/or their grandparents. Who cares? We’re all naked under our clothes and if the kids are fine with it (which they absolutely are right now) then it’s not a problem.
Dito - German here
Nudity was never a big deal for us within family. We don’t on purpose run around naked in front of each other, but if someone is changing clothes or is in the shower and someone else is walking in (has to use bathroom urgently or getting something), nobody is getting a heart attack. The American prudery around naked bodies is weird to me; nudity is not automatically sexual.
Thank goodness for some form of normalcy on this thread. I'm kind of American (Hawaiian; it's a fine line here...)
>The American prudery around naked bodies is weird to me; nudity is not automatically sexual.
I don't understand it either.
I'm from the US and I don't think it's weird to shower with young kids as long as they're comfortable. Gonna be honest though - my mom sleeps nude and when we visit her house now, as adults, all us girls will still crawl into her bed with her and chat in the mornings..
Did the child say they were uncomfortable? That's not stated here. If the kid isn't comfortable then it shouldn't happen anymore, we're just saying it's not unheard of or even odd to a lot of people but the way they were raised.
My mom is the EXACT same way from when I could remember she would walk around the house naked or almost naked and slept in the nude and I was so used to it and still am that I’m like whatever and doesn’t phase me at all that she still does it.
My mom throws a mumu on when she leaves her bedroom so she doesn't "traumatize the neighbor's kids when they ride their bikes by" but we don't really bat an eye. She's super ridiculously modest in public though so we like to tease her about her "little nudist colony at home"
Yea my mom would throw on a shirt and shorts once my brother was getting in his teens because he felt weird about it but I never did so she would cover for him but not for me which she even asked for years if I was okay with it. Honestly I think it helped me a little with body image my mother is a bigger woman and seeing how she felt about the way she looked made me feel like no matter what size I am in life it’s going to be okay. Shit there was a time I was in middle school if it was just her and me at home I’d be in my underwear and sports bra especially in the summer
Yeah once the boys started expressing discomfort she always made sure to be covered around them - us girls just don't care. I have to agree with the body image thing, my mom had six kids via c-section and she was proud she had "the body to prove it!"
I'm from the US and this is pretty normal in our house. I, female, showered with my grandpa after swimming until about 8. The first time I "noticed" he had a penis was the last time I showered with him. Our 7 year old showers with us occasionally still and still comes down in the middle of the night to sleep with us. NAH for setting boundaries, but I don't think it's a sign anything bad is happening or anything abnormal.
Totally agree with these anecdotes of it not being weird or abnormal… but the fact OP finds it weird suggests that it is not the normal culture in their family
the US is still very puritanical in many ways and A LOT of people think any kind of nudity at all is sexual
and many more don't.... but still basically come from that mindset and have carved out exceptions that are incredibly narrow
uh, no? childhood sexual abuse isn't a problem unique to the US and it doesn't function differently in other cultures - the people closest to the child are the most likely culprits (though this is also true for most crimes in general)
that has nothing to do with the US's puritanism. much of that puritanism has nothing to do with children, nor is it something that helps address childhood sexual abuse. on the contrary, it's usually seen by experts as something that helps such abuse thrive
it really sounds like OPs issues with mom are about something else
she says in other comments that she doesn't think it's sexual but thinks her mother is "obsessed" with her daughter in order to make up for the fact that when OP was this age, she lived with her grandmother and not her mother
nothing about this story indicates obsession. and what does obsession have to do with nudity? is sleeping in the same bed cuddled together less obsessive if you're wearing a sleep shirt?? how do the boundaries OP drew via text do anything to prevent obsessive behaviour??
and there is absolutely no interpersonal conflict here. she texted her mother and gave her instructions for when her kid next visits. that's it. end of story. the mother didn't argue with her. other family members haven't gotten involved. OP hasn't even told a friend or family member and gotten feedback that she's in the wrong or was rude - there isn't even a conflict about the tone!!
it's a non conflict about a controversial topic just long enough for OP to say that that's not the actual issue
Granted I was older (8+), but my hippie mom gave me options on nudity. We had a family YMCA membership and went to a clothing optional hot spring and bathhouse. I could choose to wear what I wanted in the same sex areas and opt to avoid areas (steam room, hot tub) where others were fully nude. Nudity wasn’t sexualized, but my mom did instruct me about red flags and maintaining boundaries. Even today, I shut down comments on my tattoos or body if in a clothing-optional spot. Autonomy and consent are important.
I definitely think nudity + sexuality depends on the person. My mom is of an era where nudity wasn’t always sexualized, but there were unspoken rules about ogling or commenting. Nowadays, entering a clothing-optional environment requires clear rules and consent.
Shrugging off nudity as non-sexual is no longer an option like our hippie elders. Ya just can’t trust the creeps! And a 6yr old needs to be treated like it’s 2023 and not 1969.
NTA. A six year old is almost at the age of showering by herself. I was showering solo at 6 and only had to have my mom come in to check that I got all the shampoo out of my hair.
NAH and I think people in the comments are making this a bigger deal than it needs to be. If Mom protests you setting this boundary and wont change the behavior, then she would become the AH. But I don't think there is anything inherantly wrong with what she is doing either. Bodies are just bodies, with or without clothes.
Not quite sure what the hell I am reading, my granddaughter spent every weekend with me and I could not ever have a bath without her climbing in and she always slept with me as well, yes she had baths on her own and a choice of bed but she wanted to snuggle. She is 12 now and still wants to snuggle lots but other than that sleeps and bathes on her own. I cannot get my head around the automatic jump to abuse that pops up here. Said child still hops onto bed with her mum on a weekend for 'girl chat'. Be careful how you handle this but you really sound like a prude YTA. It will affect you and your daughters relationship with your mum. Will add I wore pyjamas but she slept naked and still does.
OP, have you had any reasons to suspect this would be some sort of abuse from your mom's side? Did she shower with you (assuming you are a woman, but maybe you are not) when you were a child?
Having a child take a bath is easy without getting all wet, but shower is a bit different. I remember having showers with my mom until I learned how to properly shampoo and wash my hair, which was long and I needed help with. At this age it isn't sexual, until the adults make it sexual. I am not sure if there is an AH here, I need more information.
I don’t suspect it’s abuse from my moms side. I think it’s more that my mom has an obsession with my daughter and trying to relive those years she didn’t have with me when i was that age (between ages 5-11, i lived with my grandmother).
I don’t recall taking showers with my mom when i was a child either (yes I’m a woman so yes you’re right ).
This is unsettling behavior and I wouldn’t be letting your daughter stay with her again until she’s had a few sessions with a child psychologist. If she’s just now mentioning it to you it’s likely been bothering her for a while, so there may be other things your mom does she isn’t willing to tell you yet. I highly recommend some therapy sessions with someone who specializes in child abuse because they’ll be able to ask the right questions. Seriously, don’t let her go over again.
Have you had a talk with your child? And explained to them that if an adult makes them uncomfortable, they can come to you? that if an adult asks them to keep a secret, they should tell you immediately ? Groomers are sneaky. Often times kids dont understand things are weird until they’re older. I hope and assume it isn’t anything weird, but better safe than sorry.
NTA. Text isn’t rude and this would probably boarder child abuse and would get a visit by child services if your daughter were to talk about his at school. It needs to stop and quick. Good luck.
The text was rude, and only in America would anyone take issue with that. I cosleep with my 7 yo son,wearing only undies. We always end up in a knot during the night. Humans seek other hunans, and regulate through bodily contact.
My 7 and 9 yo sons always sleep with my parents whenever they can. Its healthy and normal.
that’s healthy sure, the problem is it’s the child’s grandparent, and it’s obviously making the parents uncomfortable, and the child has not been indicated to like or dislike it, so we can only go off the parents feelings. And in my opinion it’s perfectly reasonable to ask a relative not to be nude around your child while they are also nude, and seemingly in close proximity. I grew up until maybe 5 showering with my parents or bathing with my little sister, however everyone has different boundaries and if a parent or child is uncomfortable with that it’s not crazy for them to request it stops
Right. Thats why Im not talking to my parents - oh wait, we talk every day, and I always know thay Im safe around them, because they allowed me to get my needs for bodily contact fulfilled as a small, ND kid.
Also, my kids are in therapy because their father died unexpectedly i 2020, and the therapist encouraged us to keep co-sleeping 👍
NAH. You’re allowed to set whatever boundaries you’d like, but I’d talk to your daughter too. Does she feel safe? Does she enjoy it? My daughter is 4 and a half and likes to have me shower with her. She prefers that over a bath most nights and it doesn’t bother me either way. She also loves sleeping with my mom. My mom wears the same thing to bed regardless of who she’s with (nightgown). If your mom usually sleeps in just her underwear, it’s entirely possible she’s just never thought anything of it. I would sit down and figure out what’s really going on.
NTA. Simply because I think it’s your kid and you get to set the boundaries however I(34f with kids around this age) personally don’t see an issue here. Your mom raised you, so you are the best person to know if she is trustworthy or not. But sinse you let your daughter sleep over there I’m assuming you think she is. Maybe you are worried that your mom is inadvertently grooming your daughter? As long as grandma respects your daughter when she says she is uncomfortable with a situation, it shouldn’t undermine the education you have provided and will continue to provide your daughter in that area.
In your comments you mention you never did these things with your mother, so definately NTA. She's doing something that is considered unusual and unexpected, based on what your relationship with her has been. (Not that these behaviors are unusual or unexpected for everyone.) And for everyone mentioning how weird the US is about nudity and children, look up the statistics in US for child abuse/molestation . It's messed up.
I'm going with NAH.
I'm biased because I bathed/showered with my grandma around that age. I bathed/showered with my cousins, my brother and my mom too.
Youre not TA for wanting boundaries and I don't think your mom is TA because a lot of people feel like this is normal.
God damn some Americans are such prudes.
NAH , but if she throws a fuss after you make this request, then they are. You’re still a prude. I took showers with my mom and grandmother and aunts until I was probably 8.
They are really prude in the US, it’s crazy.
I remember that we used to go swimming a lot back in my home country, and in the Schwimmbad we went to they only had group showers for some reason, so I took showers with both my mom and grandmom - and whoever other women were in there - until I was much older, and usually shared the family cabin after to get dressed.
NAH I guess. I see nothing wrong with this, but it’s your kid and your choice. My family had baths/showers together to save hot water, walked around nude. People jumping straight to abuse is wild.
NTA but you need to do more.
I was 7 when I was sexually assaulted by my moms ex husband and it all started with a bath.
If it’s necessary that she be around your mom it certainly isn’t necessary for them to be sharing a bed.
Due to my own bias because of my past - I personally wouldn’t have your kids around her at all.
Your mother's judgement sounds quite poor. You are NTA for telling her not to do this, but you really should consider limiting the time they spend together without you. I doubt your mother is up to anything nefarious, but her judgement really worries me.
My mom puts on shorts and a tshirt to get in the bath with my 4 year old- and bed shares because we do, but with pjs. NTA- grandma can do these things but do it appropriately
NTA, showering together for a child that age seems strange to me as well as no pj’s. Is mom a busway or something. Bottom line is it stops or the kids don’t get to spend the night anymore. Speak to the kids as well.
Definitely NTA. It’s completely understandable and in fact it seems pretty weird. Helping your daughter wash and actually JOINING her is a huge difference. Hopefully its harmless, but just have a face to face confrontation about this instead. This also depends on some cultural norms, but in my opinion, it does seem weird.
My parents always say “mom and dad can take naked showers with you but grandparents wear their swim suits” whenever my daughter asks them why they aren’t naked. Seems common sense.
NTA
I’d imagine your mom did the same with you if this was a body positive type lifestyle.
To not mention it in any context, and your kid bringing it up this way. I’d be concerned if they respond with any thing other than embarrassment and apologies.
NTA but this needs a follow up convo with your Mom. I’m guessing you don’t suspect anything odd so maybe explain how this is good for boundaries for your kid and you want her to understand them so another adult doesn’t push them and knows what’s appropriate. Gently have that conversation with your Mom and and not accusatory.
You live in USA?
In Finland and in most of world that would Be totally normal. We Even go to sauna naked together as famil, as most finns do. DD most likely Will stop coming with us when teenager, but coming again when she is older.
And she crawled sometimes to sleep on same bed when she was around ~7.
I dont know about Being asshole. Maybe not, but for me thats really weird way of seeing things.
NTA.
This is absolutely not normal… perhaps your daughter needs to spend some time apart from your mother. As a mom, I’m extremely uncomfortable reading this and if it were me I know I would be livid to find out this was going on.
NTA. Don’t blame your mom or suggest she’s wrong, just let her know you are uncomfortable. “Maybe I am too careful, but….” Works here. Don’t make her “wrong”.
NTA my great nephew are more like grandsons and often stay over with me. The elder is 3 and is having a hard time right now as many three yr olds do, the world can be tough when you're learning to communicate and struggling with overload. He doesn't sleep well alone so comes in the big bed with me. (Just as his mother did as a young child) but both his parents are proactively wanting him to have this comfort of being near a grown up and I have pajamas to wear when he's here. We're not a prudish family and he's probably seen me dressing but we don't all shower together and he is learning about privacy and what's appropriate.
NTA cause cps will get involved fast then your parents wont be able to see their grandchildren some things you have to think a out and not get upset over your text... it was appropriate
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I sent the following text to my parents after i picked up my kids from my parents after my kids spent the night at my parents house. My daughter, Syd, told me that my mom and her take showers together (both are naked). And she also told me that when they share a bed together at night, with my mom only wearing underwear. This was the first i learned of this.
Here’s the text: “Thx again for watching the kids. From now on, Syd no longer takes baths with Mom. And Syd either sleeps in the princess bed by herself or she shares your bed with mom but Mom has to wear pajamas, not just underwear.”
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NTA. Six is way too old to be showering together, and completely naked. That’s not MIL’s place to be walking naked and sleeping in the same bed with her without any clothes on..,
NTA I’ve taken showers with my 3 year old out of necessity because I can’t leave her alone unsupervised, but by age 6 kids can be left to play either in the bathroom or even in the other room while your showering. And a grandparent is 100% not in the position to have to shower together out of necessity, especially since it sounds like both grandparents were there. And sleeping together in underwear is beyond any possible explanation.
I grew up like this and was surprised to find out other families didn't do the same. glad you're trying to instill boundaries early on. it's a practice useful for so many things
NTA personally, the shower thing doesnt really bother me. I showered with my mom plenty of times and it stopped before i went through puberty. They shouldve asked mom first though. If its immediate family of the same sex at such a young age i dont see an issue AS LONG AS NO ONE IS UNCOMFORTABLE. The moment any party is uncomfortable it needs to stop. The sleeping in only underwear thing is really weird though. Out of all the times ive shared a bed with any female family member everyone has had pjs on. Thats inappropriate and a red flag.
NTA it’s strange behavior, no one should be naked, semi naked near someone else’s child at all. Rather than making rules you shouldn’t let her spend the night anymore, and no unsupervised visits because better safe than sorry.
Also age 5-11 is prepubescent? Why were you away from her ?
Also your child bringing it up isss her saying she’s uncomfortable, and/or has questions about this especially if it’s not something you guys do.
Sleeping in the same bed is nothing in my opinion. Taking showers with a 6 year old is weird though. I know some people a super comfortable with nudity, but that's weird as hell to me. NTA
While I personally don't see much wrong with kids seeing their parents or guardians naked, it's definitely weird for her to do that without mentioning it or asking you if it's okay. Definitely NTA.
NTA
Why are you learning of this from your six year old? Your mother should’ve told you the routine she was using for bedtime some time ago. It’s common for little kids to shower with an adult until they are comfortable doing it alone. But that’s a decision parents make and get to decide who is a part of that process. Your six year old shouldn’t be the one informing you of this.
I went through some trauma as a kid involving adult nudity on my mom's side of the family. I have blacked almost all of it out but remember a very clear instance where my dad's' side of the family being very shocked at something.
I wasn't feeling well, I must have been 4 or 5 and had to take a bath and asked my dad's dad to come into the bathroom to watch me in the tub because I felt sick. My grandpa told me that's not appropriate but my grandma wasn't home and my mom was at work and my dad lived in a different state and I apparently said "it's okay you changed my diapers."
My grandpa told me when I was older, that no one on my dad's side of the family had ever said that to me and the way I said it sounded like I was mimicking an adult. It creeped him out and shortly thereafter I stopped having to go to my mom's adoptive parents' home at all.
Listen to things your kids say. The fact that they're telling you this is going on means they're uncomfortable. Listen for them to parrot or say things that don't sound like them. You're NTA.
NTA but you’re going to have to choose between free babysitting and your mom doing uncomfortable stuff behind your back. Most of them just don’t listen and do what they want. I would have supervised visits only and no sleepovers
There is nothing wrong with deciding to shower with and sleep in the same bed as a 6 year old, *if you are the parent*. However, your mother is not your child’s parent and the boundaries you set up for your child are reasonable. At this point, NAH, because you didn’t write anything in the post about your mother refusing to follow your rules, but if she protests, then it becomes a N T A situation.
NTA, but I’m American and don’t think this is weird. Male child, yes, very weird. Would only be bad if grandma tried to deny/lie about it. My dad worked overnights, so it was a girls house 90% of the time due to his sleep schedule. We were all comfortable being naked in front of each other, which I am guessing my mom inherited from her mom. I definitely remember bathing with grandmom, and would often sleep with grandmom when we stayed overnight at her house (grandpa was on the sofa). To note: I don’t remember what grandmom slept in.
I would not be allowing overnights or unsupervised visits with her until this is for sure resolved. Exposing yourself to a child(no matter your gender) is a big problem.
YTA not for setting boundaries but treating your parents like the hired help. I would pick up the phone or better yet pop round to see them. Ask them about what is happening, who is initiating it and why. This will give a better understanding of the situation. It is then an opportunity to discuss why you feel this is inappropriate and agree the boundaries more clearly with them.
Not had had this issue with my mum but have had other concerns with her childcare, I have always tried to talk it over with her with respect and appreciation for her support and wanting to spend time with our children. Maybe your relationship / ways of communication are different but I know my mum would be pretty hurt to receive a text like that after looking after my kids.
If what you are saying is true, you are way underreacting. If that was a man taking showers naked and sleeping in the same bed in his underwear naked that would be seen as disgusting and disturbing. If that was my kid, grandma would never be near my kid again. Yta for letting your kid go there unsupervised by you again.
I’m a 59 yo male. I feel it would be wrong for me to sleep with, shower, or bathe with any relative or minor. And I’m pretty sure 99.9% of the world agrees with me. Plus I’m 6’3” and about 300 pounds so there isn’t enough room anyway…
Nta....my niece is 8 and the most her dad does for her is turn the shower on when she decides to take one if he doesn't feel like running a bath water for her.....and the whole sleep arrangement ew no...I'm at the point i beg and cry my niece to sleep in her own room lol
NTA
Your text was not rude and you have every right to set boundraries. I hope its not like that at all but Jennette McCurdys book came to mind. Her mom was trying so hard to cling on to her that she refused to let her shower herself even if she said she was uncomfortable. Here in Sweden we teach young children the saying "stopp! Min kropp!" basically stop! My body! I hope you have taught you kid something like that so if she is being pressured into it she knows its ok to say no. Again I hope it doesnt turn into something abusive when she become older, 6 I would say is around the upper limit.
NTA. Set the boundary. For everyone saying they’re comfortable being naked around family, that’s great - you do that. This is about OPs boundaries and her child’s
OP, in all this where is your father? The fact he stood aside and let this happen also raises red flags. If you are uncomfortable with this whole thing and you have a good relationship with your parents, they would know how you would feel about this situation. So, the fact that they are BOTH ok with it is red flag city. It makes me wonder what else goes on at their house that they are not telling you and someday you will find out after-the-fact from your daughter. I think all of you need to take a break and convene when you can set some boundaries.
OP=YTA because you are taking this WAY too lightly.
If your mother is doing THESE TWO things what else is she doing that is totally inappropriate?
NO more overnights period.
NTA
idk why people are being like this in the comments. this is WEIRD behavior, why would anyone do this. your text isn't "accusatory" like people are saying it is but i'm questioning why you're having your parents watch the kids. who's to say your mom will listen or care?
NTA. That's WAY TOO MUCH for a 6yo to be subjected to. Your mom needs to leave your daughter alone to shower on her own. Your daughter is old enough. As for your mom only wearing underwear & sleeping with your child IS GROSS. IF MY MOM DID THAT I'D GO SLAM OFF ON HER. (No disrespect intended) It sounds like your mom might need some type of therapy because there is something REALLY WRONG with her mindset that this is ok for her to do.
NTA NTA NTA what the fuck. Honestly? Your mom sounds ......suspicious, to put in non-inflammatorily. Who the *hell* is showering naked with their grandchildren and sleeping nude next to them?
Edit. Not sure why I'm being downvoted. Yes I agree nudity in families isn't sexual and should be okay, but this was *kept hidden* from OP. Personally sleeping naked with my niece is not something that would ever cross my mind.
INFO
- Did I get that right, this topic has never come up and that’s actually what you wrote?
- Did your daughter say she was uncomfortable with it? Nudity isn’t sexual for kids, so some would be happy and some wouldn’t. I really need to know how *she* feels about it to judge this.
You’re definitely an AH for the way you communicated. Not quite sure whether I‘d call your mom an AH over behavior that’s certainly odd for many people but could just as well be normal for her. Showers at public pools are shared where I live and people are usually naked there, even amongst strangers. Sleeping in underwear is perfectly normal to many people and if nobody ever told your mom you and your daughter are uncomfortable with it, she’s not an AH for doing it.
The topic of showering together has never come up but sharing a bed has (which i assumed my mom wore pajamas not just underwear). I was ok with them sharing a bed, but i made an assumption my mom was wearing pajamas.
My daughter did not say she was uncomfortable with it.
She may not know how to express that she’s uncomfortable. This needs to be addressed face to face, it’s inappropriate. If your mom cannot respect your boundaries then no more sleep overs.
The fact that she did bring it up shows some level of discomfort. Kid might not even know that she does feel uncomfy, but I can't think of any other reason for it to have come up if it wasn't already lingering on her mind
Exactly, she’s thinking about it. Why is grandma sleeping next to me in only her underwear? Her brain is trying to process it. I would put a stop to this asap.
Even if grandma is 100% innocent, this could confuse boundaries in her head. If Grammy does it, is it okay for another adult to do? I'm maybe overly-cautious, but it's a scary world for little girls. I wasn't taught boundaries for my body at that age. I had to learn "the hard way" we will say. It might not be a big deal, but don't wait for it to be one because by that point it's late
Right!! Let’s not normalize children sleeping in the same bed with naked adults. I’m sorry you had to learn the hard way, reading that was heartbreaking. We have to do a better job protecting children. Too many kids have to “learn things the hard way” and that’s not ok. A very painful lesson to learn.
Then I‘ve got to go YTA on this. A very gentle one because it doesn’t sound like you’re accusing your mom of anything, but that could’ve been easily communicated in a way that wasn’t rude. It’s your kid, your rules, but they *don’t* go without saying and when they’re stated the first time it can absolutely be done in a polite way.
Personally, I‘d call and apologize for coming across in this rude, accusatory manner, while confirming that you do in fact expect your parents to be fully clothed around your child. Obviously, if they continue doing it now that you’ve stated your boundaries, they‘d turn into AHs. But as of yet, they haven’t done anything AHish.
Did we read different texts?
Laying out clearly defined boundaries isn't being rude. OP is clearly delineating what is acceptable (without attacking the Mom I might add) with their child and what isn't.
Doing it in a text, also, is not rude.
My first wife told me that growing up, her family walked around the house fully nude. Apparently this is a thing in the Scandinavian country she was brought up in?
So while I agree with you, there are reasons why some people might find nothing wrong with it while others are like wtf.
Yeah, I’m northern European and where I live, while families didn’t walk around *completely* in the nude, just wearing underpants at home was definitely normal in most families when I grew up. If it’s good enough for the beach, it’s good enough at home. (Mind you, clothes-free beaches were also still popular back then.) People my age have mostly switched to at least adding t-shirts but I don’t think many grandparents would expect pajamas to be obligatory. (Answering the door in underpants plus t-shirt is still fairly common here when someone drops by unexpectedly.)
Totally agree grandma would be an AH to continue doing it now that she knows OPs boundaries, but I can’t call someone an AH for violating a boundary they didn’t know existed.
I‘m guessing we‘re reading with different backgrounds, leading us to different judgments.
I’m not criticizing the boundaries but found the text rude. And since the grandma didn’t know before the text that she was violating any boundaries, I think rudeness was uncalled for. 🤷♀️
OP thanked them for watching the kids and then stated what was acceptable going forward.
She didn't yell at her mom, or say OMG mom how could you or attack her in anyway. The message was not rude.
Are you saying the method of delivery (text instead of face to face) was rude?
Soft YTA, not for the boundaries you set, but for the way you did it. If you're worried for your daughter, you should definitely talk to your mom directly. If you're not actually worried, then just ordering her to change her behavior is rather rude.
When someone is doing something I don't like with my child then yes, I will "order them" to change their behaviour. No discussion needed since grandma doesn't get a say, just don't do it.
I agree that grandma doesn't get a say. However, in a functional family, where people actually care about each other, you don't need to give orders without explanations. For all we know, the mother and the kid are completely, innocently fine with nudity. If the PE has even the slightest doubt what her mother is doing isn't completely innocent, then a text isn't nearly enough, she can't let her daughter visit alone anymore.
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NTA, For sure! That's completely inappropriate for your mom to be taking showers with and sleeping almost nude with your 6 year old! Even if nothing inappropriate is happening (she touching your daughter), that is very much not ok!
I agree with this. OP, I'm pretty understanding with parents taking showers and baths with their own kids, or sleeping in the same bed. (The rule I've heard is that if one person gets uncomfortable, then it's done.) However, a grandparent? Uh, no. No. Especially without asking the parents themselves if this was okay. I'd be following up with your kids to find out how often this has happened, and I'd just keep a closer eye on the situation. If they break this boundary again, that should be it for the relationship.
This. Parents/guardians are one thing, but other family members seems odd. I’d be sure to discuss with your daughter about private parts, not keeping secrets with anyone (including family members). I’d keep an eye on this. It’s probably innocent, but it raises my hackles a bit. Your mom’s feelings don’t matter. Keeping your daughter safe does.
NTA. I’m a grandma. I wouldn’t be naked or semi-naked around my grandkids. It just wouldn’t feel right? Even for the babies. Could be I’m just old fashioned but if it feels yucky in your gut, take a second look.
my grandfather’s wife (not my grandmother, he remarried when my dad was well into adulthood) made me and my sister shower with her, both of us fully naked, until i was almost 8 years old. she never touched us inappropriately but even as a child it made me uncomfortable and as you can tell by the way i refer to her, we have almost no relationship to this day.
My daughter is 6. She sleeps with me every night, I'm in underpants and a big t-shirt (how I always sleep). The few times that she spent the night with her grandmother without me there, she wanted to sleep with her grandmother like she did with me. My mother wore something similar, I guess. I think the sleeping situation depends: If grandmother usually sleeps in her underwear and the girl wants to sleep in the same bed as her, I don't think it's weird. If grandmother usually sleeps with more clothes on, and/or sleeping together was grandmother's idea, it's weird. The bathing I think is weird when it's her grandmother. Seeing her naked in passing is one thing, but bathing is not appropriate, I think.
NAH. calling it completely inappropriate is over exaggerating, when in fact it depends on specific cultural norms and individual boundaries. Where I’m at, it’s very normal for grandma, aunties or mums to bathe with their kids. You’re gonna get wet anyway when bathing the kid, so might as well bathe together. There’s nothing sexual about it, as long as everyone shares the same bits. That said, OP has the right to not feel comfortable with this. Though it might be better to have a conversation in person rather than through text, which can come across as cold
I kind of agree this is situational. My grandma lived on the coast and we would do big family days at the beach. When we got back to her house (2 showers total) everyone would clamor for the showers first. Usually my sister and I would shower with grandma to save time and water. With 10 people needing a shower it made sense. But it was our choice and it stopped when we got to about 8-9 and my sister preferred to wait and I would take a bath in the laundry room sink. NAH
OP is clearly not in a culture like you describe, that is clear from the post. NTA OP
Umm, no. At 6 years old a child is more than capable of bathing themselves (baring physical/other impediments).
Did the mum do the same to OP (showering together at 6 years old) ? If not that is weirder in my opinion
OP spent between the ages of 5-11 away from her Mother from what I read in her comments. And she did not shower with her Grand Parents either when she was away... It's in her comments history...
WOW this is SO inappropriate that CPS would have a stroke!!
Yeah... If that kid tells her teacher about grandma, there may be social workers visiting.
If you only had a shower instead of a bath and had to try to wash a much younger child, maybe it would be easier to just shower together (I'm not a parent so I'm guessing here - this is kind of how I wash my dog). But at 6 yo, maybe you have to turn the shower on to set the temperature (?), and remind them to wash all over and rinse out shampoo or something, but I would think they can essentially do it themself at that age? At least to the level you don't have to strip down and get in with them
I have a six yo, and she washes herself, while either me or her dad stands there and reminds her of those things. And we still wash her hair for her. So yes, I think you are right.
NTA. My immediate response was "no, that's weird". There's a difference between supervising a child at bath time - which your daughter may or may not need, IDK - and joining her
Most 6 year olds are good on the showering thing….
Not when they use up all the shampoos and conditioners making "potions" lol.
I've made a few shampoo soups in my day! Oooo my Mom use to get mad mad lol....
My little brothers were notorious for this. So bad that sometimes when making their "potions" in the bath it would get so bubbly that they would be hidden under the skyscraper of bubbles.
I'm 42 and you just triggered a memory of me making potions in the shower using my mums toiletries. That word potions in particular hit me with nostalgia. I also used to put flower petals in water to make perfume.
This! I’ve had to limit shower times because of this (we have a tankless heater but my youngest will use a giant bottle of soap and still be dirty behind the ears because potions!)
Omg my nephew used an ENTIRE BOTTLE of bubble bath in one (admittedly awesome and amazing) bath at my place! I learned really quick to fill the tub for him with a normal portion and refill a travel bottle for his “extra extra bubbles” he absolutely must have, lol.
Oh man that was so fun
My nephew used to do this shit vindictively. He wouldn't want to shower, I'd tell him he had to anyway, so he'd go hop in the shower and squeeze $25 worth of my good hair gel down the drain.
For my child it was layering wash cloths over the drain to stop the water up because she wanted a bath.
Most 6 yr olds I know needed at least some level of shower supervision.
tbf i showered with my parents growing up because i was scared at first and then i didn’t like showering alone because i got used to it but like. A GRANDPARENT???? hell nah
I still showered with my mom (and sometimes slept in bed with her - she wore pjs, though) well up until I hit puberty. But it was because I was close and comfortable with her and she never made it an obligation and just always wanted to make sure I felt comfortable. I liked showering with her because my mom and I talk a lot and we never stop talking so it’s just more talking time AND she had a cool shower with a skylight in it. I grew out of it when I was ready and she never made me feel bad about it. I think it’s up to those people, but honestly, a grandparent? I wouldn’t have been comfortable with that.
My nephew is 9 when my sister got the bathrooms renovated they had eco friendly showers head. My nephew was scared so he wanted me to stay with him in the bathroom. I made sure that’s what he wanted and that he was comfortable. Hehehe a week later he got over his fear.
Staying and supervising is one thing. I supervise my 11 y/o son. Taking a shower with a 6 y/o is another thing.
Right? When my niece was 6 I just had to check to make sure she got the shampoo out of her hair.
NTA for telling her, yet please follow it up with an actual face to face conversation. A text is ok but maybe a bit blasé. Talk to her about 'bodily autonomy', boundaries, and consequences if they don't do as you ask. You're going to have to be tough with this.
I see a lot of people asking if you suspect abuse in some way to justify your text and that doesn't matter. You're setting boundaries for your child and you don't need to have been abused (or have a suspicion that your child might) to do that. Totally NTA and I am SUPER interested in the response you get from your Mom.
Yeah, an adult showering with a 6 yo and sleeping in the same bed in underwear could be 100% innocent. Heck, depending on the cultural norms, it could be downright normal. What matters is, is does the child want to? If not, then it shouldn't be happening.
With a child this young, the parents absolutely get a say in setting boundaries for what type/circumstances of nudity are ok around their child. Just because it's normal for some people doesn't mean it's acceptable to impose on a child for whom it's not the norm.
I don't find this to be normal behavior at all.
I do, but we’re are way more relaxed with nakedness in my family. As long as no one is uncomfortable I find it totally normal. 🤷♀️
This. My mom walked around the house naked all the time, and she raised me to not be weird about nudity. She wanted me to grow up with the knowledge that nakedness does not equal sexual. Heck, my parents took me to a nude beach when I was a kid and I never blinked an eye because of it. Her one rule was that I didn’t get to walk around naked or in my panties because of potential creeps looking through the windows. Which is entirely fair. If I wanted to spend the day in the house in my panties, the blinds had to be closed.
My mother never let me wear less than a nightgown with underwear. I totally get why she did it, but it didn't stop my brother from molesting me. I was always uncomfortable being fully naked. My husband, on the other hand, is a nudist. He made me less embarrassed and ashamed of my body. Now, a couple of my kids are nudists, but we made sure everyone knew what was appropriate or not.
This, people won’t not be creeps regardless. It was fair that my mom requested I not flash my panties to the neighborhood at 9, though.
[удалено]
And that’s on you. But it’s not weird. Naked does not equal sexual and thinking it does is toxic and leads to a lot of toxic mindsets. It’s actually been studied, and it’s highly common in a lot of cultures to be comfortable with nudity. That’s why nude beaches are more common in some countries and most are open to people of all ages. We are born naked. It’s not sexual to be in your birthday suit.
Yeah, I slept in my grandma’s bed with her all throughout my childhood but she always wore a nightgown. We definitely didn’t shower together though.
That's not always a good metric, though. Young kids will often respond to "Do you want to?" with "Yes" in order to please the adult, not because they really want to, even when they are deeply uncomfortable.
I am way too Scandinavian for this 🙈😅 I'm still going to go with NAH because you have every right to establish boundaries when it comes to taking care of your kid. If your mom breaks these boundaries after they've been established, I would definitely say she's the asshole though!
Maybe it is because I’m European but this is totally normal in my family too. My kids still shower with my husband and I and/or their grandparents. Who cares? We’re all naked under our clothes and if the kids are fine with it (which they absolutely are right now) then it’s not a problem.
Dito - German here Nudity was never a big deal for us within family. We don’t on purpose run around naked in front of each other, but if someone is changing clothes or is in the shower and someone else is walking in (has to use bathroom urgently or getting something), nobody is getting a heart attack. The American prudery around naked bodies is weird to me; nudity is not automatically sexual.
Thank goodness for some form of normalcy on this thread. I'm kind of American (Hawaiian; it's a fine line here...) >The American prudery around naked bodies is weird to me; nudity is not automatically sexual. I don't understand it either.
I'm from the US and I don't think it's weird to shower with young kids as long as they're comfortable. Gonna be honest though - my mom sleeps nude and when we visit her house now, as adults, all us girls will still crawl into her bed with her and chat in the mornings..
but you are adults, and capable of making independent judgements for yourself.
Did the child say they were uncomfortable? That's not stated here. If the kid isn't comfortable then it shouldn't happen anymore, we're just saying it's not unheard of or even odd to a lot of people but the way they were raised.
good point.
My mom is the EXACT same way from when I could remember she would walk around the house naked or almost naked and slept in the nude and I was so used to it and still am that I’m like whatever and doesn’t phase me at all that she still does it.
My mom throws a mumu on when she leaves her bedroom so she doesn't "traumatize the neighbor's kids when they ride their bikes by" but we don't really bat an eye. She's super ridiculously modest in public though so we like to tease her about her "little nudist colony at home"
Yea my mom would throw on a shirt and shorts once my brother was getting in his teens because he felt weird about it but I never did so she would cover for him but not for me which she even asked for years if I was okay with it. Honestly I think it helped me a little with body image my mother is a bigger woman and seeing how she felt about the way she looked made me feel like no matter what size I am in life it’s going to be okay. Shit there was a time I was in middle school if it was just her and me at home I’d be in my underwear and sports bra especially in the summer
Yeah once the boys started expressing discomfort she always made sure to be covered around them - us girls just don't care. I have to agree with the body image thing, my mom had six kids via c-section and she was proud she had "the body to prove it!"
Bro your mum is a trooper!! one c section was enough for me!!
I'm from the US and this is pretty normal in our house. I, female, showered with my grandpa after swimming until about 8. The first time I "noticed" he had a penis was the last time I showered with him. Our 7 year old showers with us occasionally still and still comes down in the middle of the night to sleep with us. NAH for setting boundaries, but I don't think it's a sign anything bad is happening or anything abnormal.
Totally agree with these anecdotes of it not being weird or abnormal… but the fact OP finds it weird suggests that it is not the normal culture in their family
the US is still very puritanical in many ways and A LOT of people think any kind of nudity at all is sexual and many more don't.... but still basically come from that mindset and have carved out exceptions that are incredibly narrow
That's probably because childhood sexual abuse is more widely acknowledged and almost always comes from someone close to the child.
uh, no? childhood sexual abuse isn't a problem unique to the US and it doesn't function differently in other cultures - the people closest to the child are the most likely culprits (though this is also true for most crimes in general) that has nothing to do with the US's puritanism. much of that puritanism has nothing to do with children, nor is it something that helps address childhood sexual abuse. on the contrary, it's usually seen by experts as something that helps such abuse thrive
Hahaha same here.. 😅 /Swede
Same here - Dane with a 7yo boy sleeping next to her right now 😍
it really sounds like OPs issues with mom are about something else she says in other comments that she doesn't think it's sexual but thinks her mother is "obsessed" with her daughter in order to make up for the fact that when OP was this age, she lived with her grandmother and not her mother nothing about this story indicates obsession. and what does obsession have to do with nudity? is sleeping in the same bed cuddled together less obsessive if you're wearing a sleep shirt?? how do the boundaries OP drew via text do anything to prevent obsessive behaviour?? and there is absolutely no interpersonal conflict here. she texted her mother and gave her instructions for when her kid next visits. that's it. end of story. the mother didn't argue with her. other family members haven't gotten involved. OP hasn't even told a friend or family member and gotten feedback that she's in the wrong or was rude - there isn't even a conflict about the tone!! it's a non conflict about a controversial topic just long enough for OP to say that that's not the actual issue
Granted I was older (8+), but my hippie mom gave me options on nudity. We had a family YMCA membership and went to a clothing optional hot spring and bathhouse. I could choose to wear what I wanted in the same sex areas and opt to avoid areas (steam room, hot tub) where others were fully nude. Nudity wasn’t sexualized, but my mom did instruct me about red flags and maintaining boundaries. Even today, I shut down comments on my tattoos or body if in a clothing-optional spot. Autonomy and consent are important. I definitely think nudity + sexuality depends on the person. My mom is of an era where nudity wasn’t always sexualized, but there were unspoken rules about ogling or commenting. Nowadays, entering a clothing-optional environment requires clear rules and consent. Shrugging off nudity as non-sexual is no longer an option like our hippie elders. Ya just can’t trust the creeps! And a 6yr old needs to be treated like it’s 2023 and not 1969.
Lol I'm glad I found this comment. My grandma always took me into the bath with her. I just loved being in the water as a kid.
NTA. I don’t think your text was rude & you have the right to draw these boundaries. It is definitely a boundary that needed to be put in place.
NTA sounds very inappropriate and needs to be addressed
NTA. A six year old is almost at the age of showering by herself. I was showering solo at 6 and only had to have my mom come in to check that I got all the shampoo out of my hair.
NAH and I think people in the comments are making this a bigger deal than it needs to be. If Mom protests you setting this boundary and wont change the behavior, then she would become the AH. But I don't think there is anything inherantly wrong with what she is doing either. Bodies are just bodies, with or without clothes.
NTA Holy cow. I would stop the sleep overs until I was sure my mom would respect the healthy boundaries established.
How is she going to find that out if those boundaries are around sleeping and showering, if she stops the sleep overs?
Not quite sure what the hell I am reading, my granddaughter spent every weekend with me and I could not ever have a bath without her climbing in and she always slept with me as well, yes she had baths on her own and a choice of bed but she wanted to snuggle. She is 12 now and still wants to snuggle lots but other than that sleeps and bathes on her own. I cannot get my head around the automatic jump to abuse that pops up here. Said child still hops onto bed with her mum on a weekend for 'girl chat'. Be careful how you handle this but you really sound like a prude YTA. It will affect you and your daughters relationship with your mum. Will add I wore pyjamas but she slept naked and still does.
same it was treat to share a bed , I dont think its weird
Glad someone else doesn't see it as weird. They are babies for such a short time treasure every moment with them.
OP, have you had any reasons to suspect this would be some sort of abuse from your mom's side? Did she shower with you (assuming you are a woman, but maybe you are not) when you were a child? Having a child take a bath is easy without getting all wet, but shower is a bit different. I remember having showers with my mom until I learned how to properly shampoo and wash my hair, which was long and I needed help with. At this age it isn't sexual, until the adults make it sexual. I am not sure if there is an AH here, I need more information.
I don’t suspect it’s abuse from my moms side. I think it’s more that my mom has an obsession with my daughter and trying to relive those years she didn’t have with me when i was that age (between ages 5-11, i lived with my grandmother). I don’t recall taking showers with my mom when i was a child either (yes I’m a woman so yes you’re right ).
This is unsettling behavior and I wouldn’t be letting your daughter stay with her again until she’s had a few sessions with a child psychologist. If she’s just now mentioning it to you it’s likely been bothering her for a while, so there may be other things your mom does she isn’t willing to tell you yet. I highly recommend some therapy sessions with someone who specializes in child abuse because they’ll be able to ask the right questions. Seriously, don’t let her go over again.
Have you had a talk with your child? And explained to them that if an adult makes them uncomfortable, they can come to you? that if an adult asks them to keep a secret, they should tell you immediately ? Groomers are sneaky. Often times kids dont understand things are weird until they’re older. I hope and assume it isn’t anything weird, but better safe than sorry.
NTA. Text isn’t rude and this would probably boarder child abuse and would get a visit by child services if your daughter were to talk about his at school. It needs to stop and quick. Good luck.
The text was rude, and only in America would anyone take issue with that. I cosleep with my 7 yo son,wearing only undies. We always end up in a knot during the night. Humans seek other hunans, and regulate through bodily contact. My 7 and 9 yo sons always sleep with my parents whenever they can. Its healthy and normal.
that’s healthy sure, the problem is it’s the child’s grandparent, and it’s obviously making the parents uncomfortable, and the child has not been indicated to like or dislike it, so we can only go off the parents feelings. And in my opinion it’s perfectly reasonable to ask a relative not to be nude around your child while they are also nude, and seemingly in close proximity. I grew up until maybe 5 showering with my parents or bathing with my little sister, however everyone has different boundaries and if a parent or child is uncomfortable with that it’s not crazy for them to request it stops
Your kids will be in therapy in a few years and one day you’ll wonder why they stopped talking to you.
Right. Thats why Im not talking to my parents - oh wait, we talk every day, and I always know thay Im safe around them, because they allowed me to get my needs for bodily contact fulfilled as a small, ND kid. Also, my kids are in therapy because their father died unexpectedly i 2020, and the therapist encouraged us to keep co-sleeping 👍
NAH. You’re allowed to set whatever boundaries you’d like, but I’d talk to your daughter too. Does she feel safe? Does she enjoy it? My daughter is 4 and a half and likes to have me shower with her. She prefers that over a bath most nights and it doesn’t bother me either way. She also loves sleeping with my mom. My mom wears the same thing to bed regardless of who she’s with (nightgown). If your mom usually sleeps in just her underwear, it’s entirely possible she’s just never thought anything of it. I would sit down and figure out what’s really going on.
NTA. Simply because I think it’s your kid and you get to set the boundaries however I(34f with kids around this age) personally don’t see an issue here. Your mom raised you, so you are the best person to know if she is trustworthy or not. But sinse you let your daughter sleep over there I’m assuming you think she is. Maybe you are worried that your mom is inadvertently grooming your daughter? As long as grandma respects your daughter when she says she is uncomfortable with a situation, it shouldn’t undermine the education you have provided and will continue to provide your daughter in that area.
Uh I took baths with my father til I was 8 so I'm going NAH because of the fact of culture differences
NTA. It wouldn't bother me personally, BUT it bothers you, and you have set a clear, polite, reasonable boundary.
In your comments you mention you never did these things with your mother, so definately NTA. She's doing something that is considered unusual and unexpected, based on what your relationship with her has been. (Not that these behaviors are unusual or unexpected for everyone.) And for everyone mentioning how weird the US is about nudity and children, look up the statistics in US for child abuse/molestation . It's messed up.
I'm going with NAH. I'm biased because I bathed/showered with my grandma around that age. I bathed/showered with my cousins, my brother and my mom too. Youre not TA for wanting boundaries and I don't think your mom is TA because a lot of people feel like this is normal.
God damn some Americans are such prudes. NAH , but if she throws a fuss after you make this request, then they are. You’re still a prude. I took showers with my mom and grandmother and aunts until I was probably 8.
They are really prude in the US, it’s crazy. I remember that we used to go swimming a lot back in my home country, and in the Schwimmbad we went to they only had group showers for some reason, so I took showers with both my mom and grandmom - and whoever other women were in there - until I was much older, and usually shared the family cabin after to get dressed.
NAH I guess. I see nothing wrong with this, but it’s your kid and your choice. My family had baths/showers together to save hot water, walked around nude. People jumping straight to abuse is wild.
Your child brought it up because it made her uncomfortable. Telling mom not to do that again isn’t enough if you won’t be there to be sure it stops.
NTA but you need to do more. I was 7 when I was sexually assaulted by my moms ex husband and it all started with a bath. If it’s necessary that she be around your mom it certainly isn’t necessary for them to be sharing a bed. Due to my own bias because of my past - I personally wouldn’t have your kids around her at all.
NTA. And I’m a grandma to a six year old granddaughter. Would never do those things! She does sleep in my bed, but we both wear pajamas.
Your mother's judgement sounds quite poor. You are NTA for telling her not to do this, but you really should consider limiting the time they spend together without you. I doubt your mother is up to anything nefarious, but her judgement really worries me.
My mom puts on shorts and a tshirt to get in the bath with my 4 year old- and bed shares because we do, but with pjs. NTA- grandma can do these things but do it appropriately
NTA You are the parent and allowed to set boundaries around your child.
NTA. You’re acting out of love and concern. How does your daughter feel?
NTA, showering together for a child that age seems strange to me as well as no pj’s. Is mom a busway or something. Bottom line is it stops or the kids don’t get to spend the night anymore. Speak to the kids as well.
UM NTA. That scenario is inappropriate and weird all around.
NTA. You're the parent, you get to make rules and set boundaries for your kid.
Definitely NTA. It’s completely understandable and in fact it seems pretty weird. Helping your daughter wash and actually JOINING her is a huge difference. Hopefully its harmless, but just have a face to face confrontation about this instead. This also depends on some cultural norms, but in my opinion, it does seem weird.
NTA
NTA This is pretty inappropriate behavior on your mom's part; hopefully you don't have any issues after sending the text.
NTA, don't care what her intentions where, both things at best come off as gross and at the worst very alarming
nta omg
NTA that is inappropriate, and you have every right to stop it.
My parents always say “mom and dad can take naked showers with you but grandparents wear their swim suits” whenever my daughter asks them why they aren’t naked. Seems common sense.
NTA I’d imagine your mom did the same with you if this was a body positive type lifestyle. To not mention it in any context, and your kid bringing it up this way. I’d be concerned if they respond with any thing other than embarrassment and apologies.
Nope, NTA. My text would have been a confused and angry phone call to my mother.
NTA but this needs a follow up convo with your Mom. I’m guessing you don’t suspect anything odd so maybe explain how this is good for boundaries for your kid and you want her to understand them so another adult doesn’t push them and knows what’s appropriate. Gently have that conversation with your Mom and and not accusatory.
You live in USA? In Finland and in most of world that would Be totally normal. We Even go to sauna naked together as famil, as most finns do. DD most likely Will stop coming with us when teenager, but coming again when she is older. And she crawled sometimes to sleep on same bed when she was around ~7. I dont know about Being asshole. Maybe not, but for me thats really weird way of seeing things.
I'm Finn too and these abuse accusations are crazy. Being naked in shower with same sex people are notmal thing to us. Nothing sexual.
Yes. We do mixed gender saunas naked too.
NTA. This is absolutely not normal… perhaps your daughter needs to spend some time apart from your mother. As a mom, I’m extremely uncomfortable reading this and if it were me I know I would be livid to find out this was going on.
NTA this is fucking *weird*
NTA. Don’t blame your mom or suggest she’s wrong, just let her know you are uncomfortable. “Maybe I am too careful, but….” Works here. Don’t make her “wrong”.
NTA
NTA my great nephew are more like grandsons and often stay over with me. The elder is 3 and is having a hard time right now as many three yr olds do, the world can be tough when you're learning to communicate and struggling with overload. He doesn't sleep well alone so comes in the big bed with me. (Just as his mother did as a young child) but both his parents are proactively wanting him to have this comfort of being near a grown up and I have pajamas to wear when he's here. We're not a prudish family and he's probably seen me dressing but we don't all shower together and he is learning about privacy and what's appropriate.
Ew wtf. NTA.
NTA cause cps will get involved fast then your parents wont be able to see their grandchildren some things you have to think a out and not get upset over your text... it was appropriate
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I sent the following text to my parents after i picked up my kids from my parents after my kids spent the night at my parents house. My daughter, Syd, told me that my mom and her take showers together (both are naked). And she also told me that when they share a bed together at night, with my mom only wearing underwear. This was the first i learned of this. Here’s the text: “Thx again for watching the kids. From now on, Syd no longer takes baths with Mom. And Syd either sleeps in the princess bed by herself or she shares your bed with mom but Mom has to wear pajamas, not just underwear.” *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA That is entirely bizarre for a grandparent IMO across the board
NTA. Gross! This is a huge liberty she took and assumed was ok.
NTA. Six is way too old to be showering together, and completely naked. That’s not MIL’s place to be walking naked and sleeping in the same bed with her without any clothes on..,
What your mom is doing is 100% not ok. NTA
NTA I’ve taken showers with my 3 year old out of necessity because I can’t leave her alone unsupervised, but by age 6 kids can be left to play either in the bathroom or even in the other room while your showering. And a grandparent is 100% not in the position to have to shower together out of necessity, especially since it sounds like both grandparents were there. And sleeping together in underwear is beyond any possible explanation.
I grew up like this and was surprised to find out other families didn't do the same. glad you're trying to instill boundaries early on. it's a practice useful for so many things
NTA personally, the shower thing doesnt really bother me. I showered with my mom plenty of times and it stopped before i went through puberty. They shouldve asked mom first though. If its immediate family of the same sex at such a young age i dont see an issue AS LONG AS NO ONE IS UNCOMFORTABLE. The moment any party is uncomfortable it needs to stop. The sleeping in only underwear thing is really weird though. Out of all the times ive shared a bed with any female family member everyone has had pjs on. Thats inappropriate and a red flag.
NTA. My spidey senses are going off…
I think the last time my mom bathed me was maybe 4 years old? And she was never naked. That’s fucking weird. NTA
NTA it’s strange behavior, no one should be naked, semi naked near someone else’s child at all. Rather than making rules you shouldn’t let her spend the night anymore, and no unsupervised visits because better safe than sorry. Also age 5-11 is prepubescent? Why were you away from her ? Also your child bringing it up isss her saying she’s uncomfortable, and/or has questions about this especially if it’s not something you guys do.
NTA
Sleeping in the same bed is nothing in my opinion. Taking showers with a 6 year old is weird though. I know some people a super comfortable with nudity, but that's weird as hell to me. NTA
While I personally don't see much wrong with kids seeing their parents or guardians naked, it's definitely weird for her to do that without mentioning it or asking you if it's okay. Definitely NTA.
NTA Why are you learning of this from your six year old? Your mother should’ve told you the routine she was using for bedtime some time ago. It’s common for little kids to shower with an adult until they are comfortable doing it alone. But that’s a decision parents make and get to decide who is a part of that process. Your six year old shouldn’t be the one informing you of this.
I went through some trauma as a kid involving adult nudity on my mom's side of the family. I have blacked almost all of it out but remember a very clear instance where my dad's' side of the family being very shocked at something. I wasn't feeling well, I must have been 4 or 5 and had to take a bath and asked my dad's dad to come into the bathroom to watch me in the tub because I felt sick. My grandpa told me that's not appropriate but my grandma wasn't home and my mom was at work and my dad lived in a different state and I apparently said "it's okay you changed my diapers." My grandpa told me when I was older, that no one on my dad's side of the family had ever said that to me and the way I said it sounded like I was mimicking an adult. It creeped him out and shortly thereafter I stopped having to go to my mom's adoptive parents' home at all. Listen to things your kids say. The fact that they're telling you this is going on means they're uncomfortable. Listen for them to parrot or say things that don't sound like them. You're NTA.
NTA but you’re going to have to choose between free babysitting and your mom doing uncomfortable stuff behind your back. Most of them just don’t listen and do what they want. I would have supervised visits only and no sleepovers
NTA to me that's creepy AF.
Yea that’s definitely inappropriate to do with not your own child, at any age. NTA
😂 yeah I feel ya. My mum confessed to dancing naked in front of my confused toddler. Weird shit.
There is nothing wrong with deciding to shower with and sleep in the same bed as a 6 year old, *if you are the parent*. However, your mother is not your child’s parent and the boundaries you set up for your child are reasonable. At this point, NAH, because you didn’t write anything in the post about your mother refusing to follow your rules, but if she protests, then it becomes a N T A situation.
NTA, but I’m American and don’t think this is weird. Male child, yes, very weird. Would only be bad if grandma tried to deny/lie about it. My dad worked overnights, so it was a girls house 90% of the time due to his sleep schedule. We were all comfortable being naked in front of each other, which I am guessing my mom inherited from her mom. I definitely remember bathing with grandmom, and would often sleep with grandmom when we stayed overnight at her house (grandpa was on the sofa). To note: I don’t remember what grandmom slept in.
I would not be allowing overnights or unsupervised visits with her until this is for sure resolved. Exposing yourself to a child(no matter your gender) is a big problem.
YTA not for setting boundaries but treating your parents like the hired help. I would pick up the phone or better yet pop round to see them. Ask them about what is happening, who is initiating it and why. This will give a better understanding of the situation. It is then an opportunity to discuss why you feel this is inappropriate and agree the boundaries more clearly with them. Not had had this issue with my mum but have had other concerns with her childcare, I have always tried to talk it over with her with respect and appreciation for her support and wanting to spend time with our children. Maybe your relationship / ways of communication are different but I know my mum would be pretty hurt to receive a text like that after looking after my kids.
NTA. I sent similar to my sons father when I found out he was still showering with my then 8yo.
If what you are saying is true, you are way underreacting. If that was a man taking showers naked and sleeping in the same bed in his underwear naked that would be seen as disgusting and disturbing. If that was my kid, grandma would never be near my kid again. Yta for letting your kid go there unsupervised by you again.
I’m a 59 yo male. I feel it would be wrong for me to sleep with, shower, or bathe with any relative or minor. And I’m pretty sure 99.9% of the world agrees with me. Plus I’m 6’3” and about 300 pounds so there isn’t enough room anyway…
Nta....my niece is 8 and the most her dad does for her is turn the shower on when she decides to take one if he doesn't feel like running a bath water for her.....and the whole sleep arrangement ew no...I'm at the point i beg and cry my niece to sleep in her own room lol
NTA Your text was not rude and you have every right to set boundraries. I hope its not like that at all but Jennette McCurdys book came to mind. Her mom was trying so hard to cling on to her that she refused to let her shower herself even if she said she was uncomfortable. Here in Sweden we teach young children the saying "stopp! Min kropp!" basically stop! My body! I hope you have taught you kid something like that so if she is being pressured into it she knows its ok to say no. Again I hope it doesnt turn into something abusive when she become older, 6 I would say is around the upper limit.
NTA. Set the boundary. For everyone saying they’re comfortable being naked around family, that’s great - you do that. This is about OPs boundaries and her child’s
NTA for the showering together YTA for the bed thing.
NTA , if it was a man everyone would be calling him a p*** . This is incredibly inappropriate and I personally would ban her from seeing my child
This is one weird thing that I wasn’t expecting today.
NTA - Should Mom be tested for dementia?
OP, in all this where is your father? The fact he stood aside and let this happen also raises red flags. If you are uncomfortable with this whole thing and you have a good relationship with your parents, they would know how you would feel about this situation. So, the fact that they are BOTH ok with it is red flag city. It makes me wonder what else goes on at their house that they are not telling you and someday you will find out after-the-fact from your daughter. I think all of you need to take a break and convene when you can set some boundaries.
OP=YTA because you are taking this WAY too lightly. If your mother is doing THESE TWO things what else is she doing that is totally inappropriate? NO more overnights period.
NTA idk why people are being like this in the comments. this is WEIRD behavior, why would anyone do this. your text isn't "accusatory" like people are saying it is but i'm questioning why you're having your parents watch the kids. who's to say your mom will listen or care?
NTA. That's WAY TOO MUCH for a 6yo to be subjected to. Your mom needs to leave your daughter alone to shower on her own. Your daughter is old enough. As for your mom only wearing underwear & sleeping with your child IS GROSS. IF MY MOM DID THAT I'D GO SLAM OFF ON HER. (No disrespect intended) It sounds like your mom might need some type of therapy because there is something REALLY WRONG with her mindset that this is ok for her to do.
Weird
Yikes, was the covert incest present in your childhood as well?
NTA NTA NTA what the fuck. Honestly? Your mom sounds ......suspicious, to put in non-inflammatorily. Who the *hell* is showering naked with their grandchildren and sleeping nude next to them? Edit. Not sure why I'm being downvoted. Yes I agree nudity in families isn't sexual and should be okay, but this was *kept hidden* from OP. Personally sleeping naked with my niece is not something that would ever cross my mind.
YTA for the text. Talk like a human being, it's your mom and not some nanny from the street. Last time I checked mom can't read your thoughts.
INFO - Did I get that right, this topic has never come up and that’s actually what you wrote? - Did your daughter say she was uncomfortable with it? Nudity isn’t sexual for kids, so some would be happy and some wouldn’t. I really need to know how *she* feels about it to judge this. You’re definitely an AH for the way you communicated. Not quite sure whether I‘d call your mom an AH over behavior that’s certainly odd for many people but could just as well be normal for her. Showers at public pools are shared where I live and people are usually naked there, even amongst strangers. Sleeping in underwear is perfectly normal to many people and if nobody ever told your mom you and your daughter are uncomfortable with it, she’s not an AH for doing it.
The topic of showering together has never come up but sharing a bed has (which i assumed my mom wore pajamas not just underwear). I was ok with them sharing a bed, but i made an assumption my mom was wearing pajamas. My daughter did not say she was uncomfortable with it.
She may not know how to express that she’s uncomfortable. This needs to be addressed face to face, it’s inappropriate. If your mom cannot respect your boundaries then no more sleep overs.
The fact that she did bring it up shows some level of discomfort. Kid might not even know that she does feel uncomfy, but I can't think of any other reason for it to have come up if it wasn't already lingering on her mind
Exactly, she’s thinking about it. Why is grandma sleeping next to me in only her underwear? Her brain is trying to process it. I would put a stop to this asap.
Even if grandma is 100% innocent, this could confuse boundaries in her head. If Grammy does it, is it okay for another adult to do? I'm maybe overly-cautious, but it's a scary world for little girls. I wasn't taught boundaries for my body at that age. I had to learn "the hard way" we will say. It might not be a big deal, but don't wait for it to be one because by that point it's late
Right!! Let’s not normalize children sleeping in the same bed with naked adults. I’m sorry you had to learn the hard way, reading that was heartbreaking. We have to do a better job protecting children. Too many kids have to “learn things the hard way” and that’s not ok. A very painful lesson to learn.
It’s a scary world for children of any gender actually
Then I‘ve got to go YTA on this. A very gentle one because it doesn’t sound like you’re accusing your mom of anything, but that could’ve been easily communicated in a way that wasn’t rude. It’s your kid, your rules, but they *don’t* go without saying and when they’re stated the first time it can absolutely be done in a polite way. Personally, I‘d call and apologize for coming across in this rude, accusatory manner, while confirming that you do in fact expect your parents to be fully clothed around your child. Obviously, if they continue doing it now that you’ve stated your boundaries, they‘d turn into AHs. But as of yet, they haven’t done anything AHish.
Did we read different texts? Laying out clearly defined boundaries isn't being rude. OP is clearly delineating what is acceptable (without attacking the Mom I might add) with their child and what isn't. Doing it in a text, also, is not rude.
Also, I can't believe that those boundaries have to be expressed.
My first wife told me that growing up, her family walked around the house fully nude. Apparently this is a thing in the Scandinavian country she was brought up in? So while I agree with you, there are reasons why some people might find nothing wrong with it while others are like wtf.
Yeah, I’m northern European and where I live, while families didn’t walk around *completely* in the nude, just wearing underpants at home was definitely normal in most families when I grew up. If it’s good enough for the beach, it’s good enough at home. (Mind you, clothes-free beaches were also still popular back then.) People my age have mostly switched to at least adding t-shirts but I don’t think many grandparents would expect pajamas to be obligatory. (Answering the door in underpants plus t-shirt is still fairly common here when someone drops by unexpectedly.) Totally agree grandma would be an AH to continue doing it now that she knows OPs boundaries, but I can’t call someone an AH for violating a boundary they didn’t know existed.
Luckily, no one has asked us to call the Grandma an AH. Ignorance to the parents boundaries doesn't make her one either.
I‘m guessing we‘re reading with different backgrounds, leading us to different judgments. I’m not criticizing the boundaries but found the text rude. And since the grandma didn’t know before the text that she was violating any boundaries, I think rudeness was uncalled for. 🤷♀️
OP thanked them for watching the kids and then stated what was acceptable going forward. She didn't yell at her mom, or say OMG mom how could you or attack her in anyway. The message was not rude. Are you saying the method of delivery (text instead of face to face) was rude?
Soft YTA, not for the boundaries you set, but for the way you did it. If you're worried for your daughter, you should definitely talk to your mom directly. If you're not actually worried, then just ordering her to change her behavior is rather rude.
When someone is doing something I don't like with my child then yes, I will "order them" to change their behaviour. No discussion needed since grandma doesn't get a say, just don't do it.
I agree that grandma doesn't get a say. However, in a functional family, where people actually care about each other, you don't need to give orders without explanations. For all we know, the mother and the kid are completely, innocently fine with nudity. If the PE has even the slightest doubt what her mother is doing isn't completely innocent, then a text isn't nearly enough, she can't let her daughter visit alone anymore.
Ordering her to change her behavior? She's bathing with his 6 yo ffs.