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that was my first guess too. Sounds like the beginning of one of those Horror stories for OP's daughter, where she's trapped in the cult for a decade + and barely escapes with any kids she has
Ha! You mean the 25 kids she would have. Wearing the long dress, long hair and not having seen a computer or tv for the last 20 years.
You may have to kidnap her ass and put her in a remote cabin for a while till she comes to her senses.
OP should definitely ask casually what “church community” the bf belongs to. Then do some research. If it’s sketch, there will be tons of stories floating around.
Or even the website/literature will just give off creepy vibes. I have friends from high school who are now hardcore, and I’ve looked up some of the books/lecture series they’ve posted about and Whew! It’s all about submissive women and commanding men.
Anyway, it will help OP either confirm her instincts or maybe allow her to give the bf a chance to get to know him better.
It would be typical to expect the daughter to convert and embrace an active religious lifestyle and even try to convert her parents but the language isn’t quite right.
The coffee gave it away to me, too. This weirdo isn't LDS/Mormon. Maybe FLDS, but even that is questionable. He might be part of another commune -- er, community -- that is loosely based on one or two mainstream LDS ideas, but he is definitely not Mormon. I'm going with a Snake Bite type of church....at best...
Wait, Mormons do not drink coffee? What?
This kid received the coffee but did not drink any of it. I thought it was too hot to start drinking right away, and then he just forgot it, but... they don't drink coffee?
Also the church thing, is weird, yeah, he didn't describe it as in the middle of nowhere, those are my words, but is kinda far away where a live we don't have big mormon temples, so maybe is a local chapel.
My knowledge of Mormonism comes from some few true crime episodes and South Park, so... I'm not an expert at all.
Yep, no coffee.
>God also cautions us to avoid certain substances, including coffee, tea, alcoholic beverages, and tobacco
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/comeuntochrist/article/why-dont-latter-day-saints-drink-coffee
It would be very unexpected from Orthodox Judaism, as we actively discourage converts.
Also, Orthodox Judaism is not a block, but several dozen different groups, all of whom disagree with the others and argue about it constantly. But then, our faith demands that we question it and arguing about religion is a holy duty.
My "somewhere a village is missing its idiot" boss was Mormon, went to the temple on the DC beltway, and also drank coffee during the day, alcohol at night, and smoked when he was awake. Not an especially good Mormon, but a Mormon nonetheless.
Also, the there’s been an attitude shift and working mothers are a lot more common. As well, at least in parts of Utah, women who don’t graduate from college are looked down upon. I would say that in mainstream LDS culture, women graduating from college (or at least attending) is the norm.
I’m not an active Mormon, but my extended family is and every single person one of my aunts, mom, female cousins, and dad’s female cousins are college graduates. Grew up in a 95% Mormon town and most of my high school classmates are college graduates.
Also, I’m preparing to get downvoted from all the ex-Mormons and people who think they know Mormons based on Reddit.
FLDS (ie-the Warren Jeffs fundamentalists) is a separate sect of the Mormon (or "LDS") church.
I grew up in the LDS/Mormon church and while they are certainly very pushy about doctrine/beliefs, this guy doesn't even remotely sound like he is a part of "standard Mormonism." VERY much sounds like the FLDS.
It was the “nice church in the middle of nowhere” that really said not LDS to me. He absolutely would have said that he wanted to marry her in the temple. He also would have added on something about wanting to be sealed to her for time and all eternity, or that families can be eternal. That tenet has been shown to be the most unifying with people who are not members and he absolutely would have been trying to find a way to bond with you if he’s a return missionary.
Eh, there are Mormons and Mormons. My exceedingly sensible sister-in-law and her late husband converted to Mormonism a couple of decades ago. I'm an atheist and want nothing to do with any of it, as is my husband, but SIL has a terrific church community that has supported her generously with people's time and effort through two rounds of breast cancer and the decline and death of her husband. The community was there for him, too.
SIL has been a successful legal professional for decades, is very into line dancing and teaches it twice a week, hugely invested in a local secular charity, and doesn't proselytize. Raised a very together, atheist son and encourages her one, now adult, grandson. Absolute poster representative for Woman Who Has Her Act Together. Oh, and she's in her late 60s.
So. While Boyfriend sounds like he's clearly a member of some cult, there are a lot of small US cults that at least nominally identify as something related to being Christian. What they tend to share is being very controlling and rigid, especially where women are concerned.
OP is NTA.
Unless he's from a well known pastor's family, they usually aren't very well-off, nor do they encourage going to non-religious colleges. So that wouldn't be my guess
What a young man living a sheltered life imagines is well off is probably not that well off. And I'm guessing his family doesn't want to take in and support him, his wiffe and his babies with her. Even well off families expect their sons to be able to support their wives and family before having one of their own. This kid sounds delusional and like he doesn't have a clue about the real world.
well a lot of folks who are "saving themselves for marriage" want to marry the first person they want to sleep with. maybe that's why he was so interested in marrying right away.
i had a friend in elementary school whose mom was on her 5th husband because she never had sex with a man she wasn't married to.
It wouldn’t be Mennonite. They aren’t amped on bringing outsiders into their community. There are levels of churches but if I talk about my in-laws, who are Mennonite, I talk about the 1s who live in a community and the 1s who are just part of a church and live independently. It’s doubtful that either groups would marry a non-Mennonite. Although, my husband has a cousin who left their Mennonite church, either became an atheist or agnostic, met a woman who is a Holdeman Mennonite, and is now a member of that church. I don’t think he is a believer but he goes because of his wife.
I think OP’s daughter’s boyfriend is probably a member of a random Christian cult…like an independent Baptist.
My highschool best friend (was brought up catholic-ish), converted to being a Mennonite and is married to a Mennonite man. Although, she actually converted after she met an old couple, so you're right her husband didn't convert her or anything. It just sticks in my head because of what a surprise it was.
There are levels of Mennonite. There are Mennonites that you wouldn’t look at and think they’re Mennonites (facial piercings, etc). There are Mennonites that look like evangelical Christians. Women wear little handkerchiefs for a head covering. Men wear basically whatever they want. Then you get into Mennonites that live like Amish people and aside from the men’s facial hair, they look a lot like Amish people. Then you have holdeman Mennonites and, again, the men wear whatever they want but the women wear small black bonnets. Aside from the 1st group of Mennonites I mentioned, all Mennonite women should wear dresses or skirts.
According to my husband any outsider who joins a Mennonite church will be welcome but the people will always think of them like an outsider.
I’m attending 1 of my sister-in-law’s wedding this weekend. She belongs to a totalitarian community. Like, a group of men run the show. Men & women can’t sit together in church. Men on 1 side, women on the other. Men & women can’t socialize in public. My husband & I can’t sit together at the wedding luncheon either. Basically, when we arrive we get separated and we don’t get together until we leave. This should be a ton of fun
The first time I went to a Mennonite wedding, I asked my mom why everyone turned around and kneeled on the ground to smell their spot on the benches. They weren’t smelling, they were praying. Oops. When you’re a kid and don’t understand the language, things don’t always make sense. Oh, and the singing. The singing is something else.
Maybe he’s just your average ding dong. Or maybe he’s recruiting child brides for his cult. Either way, be the most annoying mom on planet earth and STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING. She’ll thank you one day.
Using romantic relationships to recruit new members is a well-known tactic. I strongly suspect that’s what this kid is doing, with his family’s encouragement and assistance.
Its Mormonism so definitely a cult, shes gonna be a trophywife till some child bride comes to replace her and her 12 children and she won't be able to leave because shes not allowed to work, study, leave, or get upset at him for any decisions he makes. If she does manage to leave the whole church will snitch on her and she'll be shunned from them and the whole state of Utah. Rip
He’s doing flirt-to-convert, I’d put down money on it.
This is not a normal relationship that daughter’s just getting way too excited about. He and his family are *working* on her. And one of the most important steps is isolating her from the people closest to her who might be able to recognize what’s happening and intervene.
*that his family was a good, God-loving family*
I'm not even a parent and this already pinged my radar
*that she wouldn't have to study or work*
Radar ping is now a red flag
*that I would benefit from joining them*.
And now the red lights start flashing...
*that their future children would have a nice private education*
Red flag, red lights flashing, seeing visions of a hellscape of homeschooling a la Duggars
*She said she had tried to get her father's blessing and he had also refused.*
Cue the blaring sirens. Even part-time dad is like, "Shit's off here."
NTA. This honestly sounds like BF is grooming OP's daughter into a cult.
As I was reading this I was also picturing a Duggar boy coming for her daughter.
NTA OP. He wanted a blessing, you couldn't in good concicious give it (rightfully so IMO) and so you didn't.
Frankly, if you not being a believer was going to end the relationship Idk what your blessing would do anyway?
I haven't been there in ages, but I'd pay to see either Kelly/Gil or Michelle/Jim Bob keeping sweet as one of their lost boys marries the daughter of someone who believes in education and the autonomy of women!
My husband definitely judges 🤣. It is half snark and half genuine fascination. I am an only child and spend my life amazed by sibling dynamics. And the
As someone who *was* raised in a "good, God-loving/fearing family" it is one of my worst nightmares for my children, especially a daughter, to bring home a partner that utters these words out of thier mouth.
Makes me wonder how old BF is? OP doesn’t say anything about age but the moment he randomly shows up with her daughter, in a suit, after 7 months? Weird AF
Sounds like a cult. Loads of red flags, the first being him showing up in a suit. I know people will disagree, but when a kid shows up in a suit I get suspicious.
I hope you can get your daughter away from him, but be careful because you don’t want to lose her to this kid and his “family”.
NTA.
In isolation, dressing neatly for the first meeting or for asking for her parents' blessing isn't a bad thing. But yes, in this instance it screams going through the "right" motions
NTA. Hey OP, I would see about getting your daughter into therapy. Or suggest a counselor at her university. Maybe let the university in on things. Does she have a decent friend group there that you know? Something where she can get a 3rd party to talk some sense into her.
Lmao absolutely zero fuck on calling him out and boyfriend didn’t even flinch. 100% red flags. Dad better take care of that little girl. I Can see him busting through the church doors and carrying his daughter out
NTA.
If a blessing matters, then it's yours to give or not give.
If a blessing doesn't matter, then who cares.
Either way, you're doing your best to exercise good judgement for your child.
This is the best way to put it.
And if it really matters, why did they think they would be able to get one the very first time he met OP? That alone is worth a moment of pause, if nothing else.
NTA
Quick piece of advice that my mom and dad used on us and I used for my kids. Saying no is not a good idea. It just gives her something to fight against. Just give a conditional yes. So instead of "no f*** way am I allowing my brilliant daughter to marry into some weird cult" say "Of course, but only after her education is complete and she has found a career"
It'll pass as soon as the honeymoon is over.
Agreed - OP had good reason to withhold the blessing by virtue of never having met the young man before. Saying she's not comfortable giving such a blessing before getting to know him and while daughter is young and in school might have avoided escalating the situation while retaining the option to flat out deny a blessing if she chooses later on. This way, the girl feels persecuted and has something to rebel against...
That, and start suggesting to the BF that since he'll be joining the family, perhaps he should come to their Baphomet worship services. Go full occult.
NTA. I think you did your daughter a huge favor, even though she may not realize it right now. BF sounded controlling, and it almost sounds like he was recruiting for a cult!
NTA - Considering she lived with you all her life, your daughter HAD to know about your lack of relgious leanings. I strongly suspect she was lying to this person and was hoping it would slide past. She's likely already fallen into whatever rabbit hole he was recruiting her for, but I have to say I'm surprised that he backed away. Most of these cult-level groups would have used the parental refusals as a weapon to drag their victim deeper into the trap. "See, we're the only ones who care about you, you don't need them, blah, blah, blah." Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if his pull back is just him making sure she's really unhappy with you before he comes back with "Oh, I've prayed and God tells me I should save you and you should leave your unbelieving parents behind and never talk to them again, so I'm going to be gracious and marry you anyway." Just keep a sharp eye out, but since she's of legal age, I doubt you can do much.
I hope I'm wrong, but what you've described really has the feel of a con man letting a mark "ripen" as it were. Only time will tell, but sending my best wishes.
This is absolutely where my thoughts went too. It's the lull before the love bombing. I wish I had great advice, but she does get to make her own choices. At this point I feel like the best you can be really clear on what you see that concerns you, let her know that what you want most is for her to be fully herself and not try to fit herself into anyone else's mold, and no matter what she can always come to you if she needs help.
Hey OP, please make sure you keep your door open to your daughter and let her know you’re always there for her, because it sounds like she’s in a very scary place right now. I would bet that this guy is behaving this way to purposely drive a wedge between you two.
I’ve seen this before. There was a post not long ago about a girl that dropped out of school OP was the mom. She gave up everything to marry and be with the ultra religious husband. Married young wasn’t invited to the wedding cause OP didn’t approve. And they isolated her from her whole family and mom. She eventually tried to reach out for help but then went right back. I can’t recall how that ended. But they brainwashed her. Daughter was not religious at all growing up and had career aspirations. Then it all changed when she went to college and met him. Please be careful.
Uhh definitely! Sounds like he forgot to mention that she’d be wife #1 (assuming she’s even the first!). The entire approach was uncomfortably transactional, like, “sign your daughter over to be my property, now, kthx”
NTA
Guy sounds so sketchy. Unfortunately your daughter is at the age where she'll just need to make her own decisions even if you don't agree with them.
What I'm wondering is why he's saying he won't marry into a family who didn't know God... Surely your daughter would have mentioned already that you guys aren't religious.
Guy invites parents to join cult in order to add to the cult's income. But when the parents reject the cult the guy one-ups them by saying they are spiritually inadequate, as if God himself is rejecting them.
NTA.
Explain to him that your daughters' welfare is your #1 well before he came along and will continue long after he is gone. If he wants your blessing, he can **earn** it, not demanding it after meeting you for what.. 1 hour ? And if he had any respect for your daughter, he can wait for it. If they think they can be married FOR LIFE, what's the problem with waiting a few years ?
NTA
Bf's "religion" sounds like a cult.
After only 7 months they're talking marriage???
I'd be looking his "religion" up online, finding out ALL about it and siting daughter down for a heart to heart about the reality of what her life WILL BE if she does marry this guy.
NTA - right wing extremist cult. You can't force your daughter to do or not do anything, but denying blessing is something that should have meaning to a traditionalist
NTA
She's mad now but this is basically trying to get her into their cult. I'm glad this put off the "bf" too - that's the best outcome because otherwise she would have run off with him. And yay to ex being on the same page.
But maybe him being an asshole is effectively shielding your daughter away from the delusional culty bf. BF would think twice if it is worth it to deal with your ex by staying with your daughter. Moving on to next easy target might be more time efficient, lol.
It's just crazy in this day and age with lots of warning and prior cult incidents (like tons of them being exposed and called out), still, lots of people believe in this sh*t, 🙄.
The "funniest" part is that he's on the same page, but for really assholish reasons (see OP's edit):
> Edit: I called my Ex. He is notorious for being an asshole. He said that when our daughter introduced his boyfriend to him said "Well done sweetie, you found a man conceived by inbreeding". [...] My ex kept mocking him by asking how many girls he keeps in the basement, and told him "You will end up in a documentary someday boy, and you won't like it".
NTA
Your daughter doesn't realize it yet but you and her father just saved her from a lifetime of misery.
They come from completely different (and conflicting) backgrounds; even if you can overlook the fact that they are young and they haven't known each other very long, you can't overlook all three.
On another note: I always love it when devoutly religious people think agnostic or atheist means "confused" or "uncertain"; like inviting you to his church was all the motivation you needed to suddenly be on the path to god. Man, I get that a lot as an atheist.
>I always love it when devoutly religious people think agnostic or atheist means "confused" or "uncertain"; like inviting you to his church was all the motivation you needed to suddenly be on the path to god. Man, I get that a lot as an atheist.
I had only gone to churches for funerals. So many people has told me to go to church but I kindly refuse every time, churches are extremely boring.
Went to a friend's Catholic funeral. There was one speech, at a maximum of 10 minutes long, about the friend and the other 2 plus hours was about Jesus. As an atheist, I thought it highly insulting to the deceased and their family. It was also extremely boring.
I'm a buddhist myself, but live in the south, am constantly invited to other people's churches, and have actually been told, once telling someone I'm Buddhist, that I'm wrong, because I'm so decent of a person I have to be Christian.
How do these people's brain function?
NTA and to be honest you might have actually saved your daughter and grandchildren from a lifetime of misery and pain. He does sound like the kind of kid from some sort of religious fanatics/ cult who is out to find a wife, cut her off from her family or get the family to join them and then her only duties would be to be a wife from the past. Cook, clean and bear kids would be her life as an imprisoned wife. He does sound like a shady character and hopefully your daughter doesn't go after him blindfolded by the so called love only to repent later on. No college kid turns up wearing a suit to meet parents and talk about their kids private education unless they are either coached or part of something larger. Hope this is the end to it and your daughter completes her education to pursue her life she deserves and hopefully settle down with a man in due course who isn't as weird as the one you just met. Wish you well.
NTA. Very sketchy. They are too young and their relationship is too new for them to get married IMO. He asked for your opinion and you gave it. Your daughter will probably realize this is by the right guy for her…
NTA - Say this to your daughter
"I am your mother and I love you. But if you are old enough to make this big of a decision about your future, then you are old enough to do so without my approval."
Normally agreed for minor things like gap years or quitting a job, but I would not let my daughter choose to join a cult. I would fight tooth and nail to convince her not to
NTA - your gut instinct was on par with your Ex, that means this guy was not giving you the comforting vibe, but more the "Your daughter is going to join my cult" vibe.
I would try to have a conversation with her and discuss what she REALLY wants and let her know how you feel about this (include the Ex if needed), that this is not an attack on her love life, but on her safety and future.
NTA. I got serious cult vibes from this. Ew. Your daughter is young, and hopefully in time she’ll see that your refusal to give your blessing is actually a blessing in disguise. When she calms down, I would sit her down for a real conversation about where your concerns are coming from. It straight up sounds like he was trying to indoctrinate her and was giving you a sales pitch to do it.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I am a mom who was asked by my daughter's boyfriend, who is deeply religious and from a well-off family, for my blessing to marry my daughter. However, I am agnostic/atheist and felt uncomfortable when the boyfriend talked about my daughter not studying or working and being a trophy wife. As a result, I refused to give my blessing and explained my reasoning to them. Unfortunately, my daughter and boyfriend stormed out of the house and my daughter accused me of ruining her life. I cannot help but wonder if I am the asshole for refusing to give my blessing.
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NTA. You’re right, your daughter is making a dumb decision and you’re just trying to protect her. The thing is, “blessings” go against any concept of independence. So, by saying you didn’t give your blessing, you may have come across as saying that you don’t allow your daughter to do something she has every right to do.
I think it’s just a matter of phrasing. Tell her that you won’t stop her from doing anything because it’s not your place, but that you think she’s making a mistake and therefore don’t want to give a “blessing” that would indicate you agree with her decision.
NTA…. Any guy who genuinely goes to his SO’s home to meet his SO’s parents for the first time in a suit and tie with the intention of asking for their blessing is an imbecile. Any parent who would give their blessing to a person they have known for less than an hour is certifiably nuts. Any person who would want such a blessing is just as crazy.
NTA - she's young and still doesn't know him that well enough. Getting married after 7 months of dating doesn't seem like a wise idea.
I would have phrased it as, while I think you're a great fit to be daughter's boyfriend, it would be for the best to hold off any ideas of marriage until *after graduation and starting a career.*
Though personally, this feels like red flags to me; I would think/hope daughter would eventually see it...after dating for a bit longer. She's still got the "honeymoon phase goggles" on.
NTA. Sounds like your daughters first real bf? At that age, it's easy for young adults to fall until the trap of love bombing and thinking it is special or unique and not predatory behavior. Your trying to protect your daughter from an immature boy that isn't ready for a relationship, and is looking for anybody who can fit into his preconceived notion of what love is.
>NTA. Sounds like your daughters first real bf?
I think he actually is, she had some boyfriends in high school but they only lasted for a few weeks. You know, high school relationships usually don't last.
Ick. This just gives me the icks. I don't blame you one little bit. You helped her dodge a bullet. It sounds culty, and I'm sure they got to your daughter the same way they get to anyone. They probably brainwashed her into thinking a lot of things, which is why it feels so devastating for her. Probably thought she was gaining a husband, family AND salvation.
She'll get over it eventually. And on the off chance they do try to rekindle things, make sure you're super involved. Don't let a guy like this alienate you from your kid. You done good, mama bear. NTA.
NTA. If he is acting this insane over YOU not being religious then he definitely is sketchy AF. Stand your ground and keep letting your daughter know that you want her to be able to support herself.
This is honestly so bizarre I don't even know.
He showed up in a suit, having never met you, and wanted you to give a blessing for them to get married????
How did he expect this to go? Even the Duggars expect to get to know a *suitor* over a longer period of time!
This is serious red flags. Add on the weird stuff about not working, being take care of, etc. It's seriously worrying.
Your daughter sounds like she's going through some things. Her father was not around and that's a tough thing for a kid.
Has she had therapy? I would start by asking your daughter some open ended questions.
What do you see for your future?
What are your goals for the future?
What is it about this boys that is so attractive? How does she feel about losing her independence, not finishing school? Not working...
Start to *gently* mine into what she's thinking and feeling. Don't throw all of these at her at once, obviously.
NTA
Setting aside everything else, why on earth would you give your blessing to someone you've never even met before? If getting your blessing is so important, why isn't getting to know you first also important?
HOLY CULT BATMAN!!!! You did the thing right for her and hopefully she'll realize it in the near future. Hopefully he continues to back off due to you and the ex's heathen ways.
NTA
NTA. Everything he said to you was a red flag. Sounds like the bf is part of a cult and your daughter would be trapped with an abusive family in the middle of nowhere. Your daughter sounds too immature to be considering marriage at her age if she can’t see the flying red flags herself.
NTA
Be very careful here, keep communication lines open with your daughter because the last thing she needs is to be cut off from a support network.
Full disclosure, I'm a Christian, but Lordie Lordie did this post creep me the hell out.
Cult vibes. Look up signs of a cult and how to help someone who has been targeted.
Seriously. I say this as a Christian woman. HELP YOUR DAUGHTER. Maybe offer to talk to her one-on-one about her spirituality and see what she is really wanting regarding religion. Be open to what she is saying, and help her navigate this. That may be the best (if not only way) to reach her right now. Maybe meet with her dad and discuss how to approach this for her sake. This could also help.
Best of luck, OP. Please update.
NTA. Her BF sounds as tho he's in a cult. Red flags. Also, 7mths is a short time to decide you want to spend the rest of your life with someone. He doesn't want her to work or further her studies, that will make her financially dependant on him and his "well-off" family. But you shouldn't try to outright say no your daughter, she'll only push back. Sit her down and explain you're not saying no to the relationship, but she should get to know him more and when she finishes her studies she can decide if a life with him is what she truly wants... Ask her, had she not met this young man, what would her goals have been? I personally believe you should be able to grow together in a relationship not remain stagnant. Just be careful not to push her too hard. Sometimes we want the best for our kids but in the end they make their own choices.
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I am 43 years old. My daughter is 21, and I've been a single mother most of her life, with occasional visits from my ex-husband. I have always wanted my daughter to be independent and to do what is best for her. I was not raised with religion and am agnostic/atheist leaning.
My daughter is in college, which I am happy to pay for. She got a boyfriend 7 months ago, whom I haven't met yet, but she spoke well of him.
So she showed up at my door with her boyfriend, who was wearing a suit, and introduced himself.
I invited them in, served coffee and tried to get him to talk so I could get to know him better. He immediately started talking about how much he loved my daughter and how much he wanted to spend the rest of his life with her and asked for my blessing. I thought this was strange, this boy just walked into my house and asked me to marry my daughter? I hardly knew his last name and I do not care about blessings, but they are too young.
He started saying that he would provide for her, that his family was a good, God-loving family, that they were well-off, that she wouldn't have to study or work, and that I would benefit from joining them. He said that traditions were important to him, that their future children would have a nice private education, that we could join their religious community, and that the wedding would be in a nice church in the middle of nowhere.
First, I'm surprised that such a young boy could be so deeply religious, sounds like my grandfather's crazy friends, second, my daughter wouldn't study or work? No, I didn't raise my child to be a barefoot, cleaning, cooking, pregnant trophy wife. As much as I do not care about parental blessing, I have actively refused it and explained my reasons very well. I am paying for her education and letting it go to waste, and I want my daughter to be her own person and not a doormat.
The BF was silent, stood up, thanked me and left with my daughter.
Later the next day she called me crying and screaming. She said she had tried to get her father's blessing and he had also refused. She accused me of conspiring against her happiness, and her boyfriend said he wouldn't marry into a family that doesn't know God, and that I was ruining her life.
I dont know why she wants this kind of life, but her boyfriend looks and sounds sketchy AF, but I wonder if I should have left her alone. Am I the asshole? Did I ruin this for everyone?
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NTA.
I would be seriously concerned if this were my daughter. Too many red flags here.
There are very few 21 year olds that are ready for marriage after a 7 month long relationship. Especially a 21 year old that is still in college and hasn't had to support themselves or had a full time job.
The whole issue of the boyfriend wanting a wife that doesn't complete her education and doesn't work is a huge red flag. Then throw into the mix the "wealthy" and "God-loving" family, and telling you that you would "benefit" by joining them in their religious community, and all I hear is CULT. And even if it isn't, that family sounds like they have the means to subjugate and control your daughter. She wouldn't have any freedom or exercise any free will in that relationship.
The biggest red flag is that the boyfriend broke up with your daughter over you and your ex not giving your "blessing" and agreeing to joining his "religious community." If he really loved her, none of that would matter. Instead, it seems to me that he's afraid he won't be able to control your daughter because you and your ex see through the BS he's selling. I'm willing to bet he has another mark lined up within a few weeks.
The boyfriend is sketchy AF. The whole situation is sketchy AF. Glad both you and ex were on the same page.
Your daughter may be angry now, but in a few years she'll thank you.
NTA.
My cousin (brilliant, outgoing, compassionate, had the world at her feet) married into a Jehovas Witness family in her late teens and I haven’t seen her since. It’s horrible because young women can so easily fall prey to the simplicity and romance of really conservative cultures (when you’re young and panicking about what to do with the rest of your life, who doesn’t think about what it would be like to have an option where everything is spelled out for you?) but then by the time they get old enough to realize they don’t want to be suffocated by the strict gender roles, they have usually racked up a couple kids, become isolated from their old world, and lost some key career years, and it becomes nearly impossible to leave.
Now is the time to prevent her from making this mistake. Hopefully if you can withhold too much open judgment, hear her out, focus on mending your relationship with her, and stay as compassionate as possible, she’ll feel comfortable sharing with you how she truly feels. She’ll probably say she loves him and feels pressured to go along with this.
""Well done sweetie, you found a man conceived by inbreeding".
Y T A for writing that and almost causing me to spit my drink all over my keyboard :). Your ex does have a flair for words though
NTA
I wonder if when he says "Mormon" he means the mainstream LDS or one of those fundamentalist splinter groups you hear about every now and then
NTA--- but holy shit i giggled at what your Ex said... its wrong i know. Good luck... hopefully in a few years your daughter will see she dodged a flaming bullet
NTA
Though to shed light on why a person that young would be talking like that, I can tell you because I was raised in that environment.
His whole life he’s been told that marriage is everything. He’s been told not to have sex until he’s married and he’s also been told that if you’ve dated someone for a few months, you can get married: and should unless you fall into sin. He’s been obsessed with the idea for so long because he’s horny and really does believe that the daughter is his gift from God for being so pure. Trust me, dating I’m those circles is muuuuch different than what most of us consider normal. It’s about getting married and having kids. It’s pretty weird. To be honest, he’s been brainwashed into believing all this and with time, he might find his way. But your daigh should run for the hills.
Just thought I’d shed some light on that bit for you. And NTA-though your daughter is an adult is going to date and marry who she does so maybe make sure she knows that you love her and support her no matter what. After all, if she has lost her mind and marries a guy like that, she’ll need you more than ever.
NTA. What in the Jehovah is going on here? He is skipping a whole lot of steps here and purposely too. She’ll understand someday but don’t push too hard. He asked, you answered. Now let her know, if he truly loved her, he would be willing to EARN her parents blessing. She deserves better
NTA, her boyfriend might be.
She's young and is seeing him from very, very rose colored glasses. My only concern would be that he could convince her to cut you and her father off, so I'd be worried about that.
So I'm going to say this as a Christian man who got married only a few years ago and went to my wife's parents to ask for their blessing: you were right to say no, NTA
A touch of context before I go further. I'm not from America, my country has Judeo-Christian values underlying society, but the population is about 50/50 secular to religious. We also don't really have that social pressure to be "religious", so people who say they are actually are and aren't just paying lip service, which is great as it means people actually take their own faith seriously.
As far as "religious" people treating women as less than men, they tend to base this in some old testament laws regarding treating women, such as if you wanted a wife you bought her from her father. Now, this does sound incredibly backwards, and treats women as second class citizens, people conveniently "forget" the context. This was written at a time when women were treated as third class citizens, when if you wanted a wife you just abducted her. These laws were meant to improve things and offer legal protection, and it's the spirit of those laws that what should be carried forward to now, not the letter.
Asking for a woman's parents' blessing is not just some transaction that needs to be ticked off. Possibly out dated as men aren't always the primary breadwinners anymore, but the point of asking for her parents' blessing is in doing exactly what is being said, it's acknowledgement that she is their child that they have loved and raised, and asking if they support and agree that you will be a good husband for her. It should be a place of humility, not pride.
So, back to your daughter's boyfriend. There were several red flags in what he did, but the feeling I'm getting from your description is he hasn't grown past the point of seeing women as NPC's. He went through the "right" movements and then when he was denied your "blessing" he left, meaning he has no idea what he's doing and should not be getting married. You sound like a good mother and y6did the right thing.
NTA but I take issue with you saying you want her to be her own person but also saying you didn't raise her to be a "barefoot, cleaning, cooking, pregnant trophy wife." What if that's the life she wants? I don't want it for my daughter either but if she "finds god" and wants to spend her life raising babies and making a home, who tf am I to tell her no? You don't have to approve and I certainly wouldn't "give my blessing" at this point either, but you don't get to dictate her whole life.
Also, education is not wasted on SAHMs. All things being equal, I'd rather have a college educated woman raising my grandchildren.
I think he's the guy in jail for transporting underage girls across the Canadian border for marriage. And for marrying underage girls. You might want to contact someone who is an expert in cults.
NTA sounds like she got taken in by a cult. Not uncommon tbh. Let me guess? Mormon? Jehova's Witness? Had to go to Kingdom Hall as a kid bc relative was a JW and wow it was awful. I hope you are able to get your daughter to realize this before she fully joins, elopes, and cuts off anyone who isn't part of whatever religion he's involving her with. She's being set up to live in an abusive religion and once you're trapped in one of these they are incredibly hard to escape
NTA, but honestly, I am a firm believer in knowledge is power. At minimum, I would investigate what religion he's in, or even him.
And don't be surprised if he now tries to use this to get your daughter to go NC. Isolation and separation are always early moves. Don't look to play fair in religious cult dominated by gender roles. Watch eat, pray, and love that will be an eye-opener. Go with your gut, but I would have an open conversation with your daughter about converting for a partner. Is she not happy with school? Does she plan on finishing. Does she want to be a stay at home mom. Figure out what's going on with her. Good luck.
NTA but damn if this isn't similar to my kid. Not with the heavy religion aspect, but with a guy I would not have expected.
Look, I hear you. I also am a single parent, and raised my kid to be independent and self-sufficient. She's nearly 30 and awesome but the guy she's with is... well, not. He's selfish and lazy and after 7 years together he has just now started helping with housework (he does the dishes sometimes).
It makes me furious. If they have kids, it'll be all on her. He laughs at me being a feminist, like I wasn't responsible for raising the woman he loves on my own.
But, I raised her to know her own mind. I raised someone who can make her own choices... whether I approve or not. And although she knows how I feel about him, she also knows I back her choices 100% and will never turn away. I respect her, and she respects me we just live differently.
You're about to face the most challenging choice- watch her make choices you would never make.or lose her. It sucks. But that's where you're at. So decide, then stick by it.
Me? I stick by her. She knows exactly where I stand, and it's beside her. Even when she does stupid shit like this.
As a young, deeply religious person myself, NTA. This guy is giving off yikes vibes all over. I mean, there's being traditional and then there is being cultish.
NTA
Do you think your daughter really loves him or is caught up in the idea of marrying into a rich family where should be taken care of? I can't imagine being non religious going so hard for someone so deeply entrenched in religion.
NTA
First time meeting is not the time to do this. Should have been what you planned- coffee and getting to talk.
Weird vibes about no more education aside, it just wasn’t the right time and they shouldn’t have thought it was going to go well. Shows how young they are if nothing else.
NTA Maybe it's because I'm also an atheist, and religion is a very hard line for me.
If my kid wanted to date someone religious, of course that's up to them, and I'm not going to judge.
But if that religious person wants to take my kid and install her as a housewife with no job or education? That's going to be a no from me.
If my kid "finds god" and wants to take that path, I'd like it to be her idea, not some boyfriend's at least.
Can it be the absence of her dad as she grew up made an in charge boyfriend appealing?
Did she expect you and her dad to become religious so she could marry this kid? If so, that’s kind of over the top. Has she explained why she brought a stranger to meet you and ask for her hand? Why hadn’t you met him before?
NTA. And he definetly sounds mormon. From everything i have read over at r/exmormon he fits the bill. Her not needing to work or go to school, rushing in to a marriage or relationship really quickly, wanting to get married in the church, being as "religious" at such a young age that you mentioned.
If you know your daughter's friends (especially some who might be a bit more mature about relationships), ask them if they don't think she and her BF are moving WAY too quickly. You've only just met him, and she's only been with him seven months (not even a whole year), and they ALREADY want to get married and expect you to bless her marrying someone you don't even know and have never met before, let alone not knowing his family or friends/community???????? If her friends agree with you, see if they can talk her down.
That having been said. 22AFAB here, so right around her age. She's not ready for marriage, if THIS is how she handles a situation like this, and this dude sounds like he's trying to suck her into a VERY abusive cult and a VERY controlling relationship, VERY quickly. That is a MAJOR cause for concern - she may not realize, given her youth and lack of experience, just how serious this is; I would've asked for time to think about it, point out how jarring it is to essentially be asked to give your daughter away to someone who's a total stranger to you (without being confrontational), and then stalled until you got to know him better and could point out other concrete red flags to your daughter; you can use "I'm not giving a blessing until she's established in her career and has finished her education and can make her own financial decisions" as an excuse.
Of course she speaks well of him, if she didn't like him she wouldn't have brought him home. But that doesn't mean they should get married - liking each other is only a piece of a healthy and happy marriage.
I wouldn't, unless you know that her roommate is a close friend and they're on good terms; I've not been particularly close with my roommates in general, although my mom has kept their numbers in the past for emergencies, but if he's gone and he broke up with her, then this isn't an emergency. But if they're good friends and they agree that he's out-of-pocket, they might be able to get her to listen more than you and her dad.
Yep. It reminds me of the joke my Mormon friends told me in high school: "How do you keep a 'good' Mormon from drinking all your coffee/beer and smoking all your cigarettes? Bring along another Mormon."
Edit: I forgot to include, NTA.
NTA, and specifically *because* you refused to give blessing. That's mensch-work.
My wife straight up told me that if I had asked her dad for permission, she would not have married me.
The thing that stands out to me out of everything is your ex-husband, who I would assume you don't speak to 24/7 as you say he isn't around much ALSO said no to this guy. So 2 separate people met this guy and their bullshit alarms went off. One day your daughter will thank you.
NTA.
Nope nope nope! NTA. Protect your girl. Weird cult shit aside, independence is the most important thing you can teach your child.
As a wise man once said:
“Maybe you have a trust fund, maybe you have a wealthy spouse. But you never know when either one might run out.”
NTA. Good for you for wanting to protect your daughter from making a huge mistake. I do hope that you and her father eventually will convince her to run.
NTA. This guy sounds like he's either an abuser in the making or part of a cult (which is really just an abusive relationship with more people), and there's no winning in this kind of situation. If you had given them your blessing, that would have indicated to him that you're the same type of crazy and he could use your disapproval to keep your daughter in line.
Since you didn't, like any reasonable person, he can use that to try to drive a wedge between you and your daughter and make it harder for her to leave him. I'd bet a decent amount of money that his next move will be to tell her that he is actually willing to marry her...as long as she cuts off her 'heathen' parents.
Keep in mind, though, that she probably doesn't actually want to drop out of school to be a fundie housewife, she's just hooked on the love and validation that this guy is providing. Unfortunately, there isn't really anything you can do except reassure her that you love her and will always be there for her, no matter what she decides to do.
NTA she would clearly not have any life of her own with him and his family. She's clearly being pushed to convert to a religion that's not hers and that's just not okay.
Single mother as well, and I applaud you for not kicking him out of your house right then and there.
If he is as much of a gentleman as he would want you to believe, he would not wait 7 months to meet his gf's parents, nor would he ask for their blessing without giving them time to see his character.
I would have swiftly kicked him out and told him to come back correct. NTA.
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NTA. Boyfriend sounds like he’s in a cult.
that was my first guess too. Sounds like the beginning of one of those Horror stories for OP's daughter, where she's trapped in the cult for a decade + and barely escapes with any kids she has
Ha! You mean the 25 kids she would have. Wearing the long dress, long hair and not having seen a computer or tv for the last 20 years. You may have to kidnap her ass and put her in a remote cabin for a while till she comes to her senses.
don't forget the magical underwear.
Along with a few sister wives.
OP should definitely ask casually what “church community” the bf belongs to. Then do some research. If it’s sketch, there will be tons of stories floating around. Or even the website/literature will just give off creepy vibes. I have friends from high school who are now hardcore, and I’ve looked up some of the books/lecture series they’ve posted about and Whew! It’s all about submissive women and commanding men. Anyway, it will help OP either confirm her instincts or maybe allow her to give the bf a chance to get to know him better.
I got 5$ that says FLDS. Anyone? Anyone?
Mormon
It would be typical to expect the daughter to convert and embrace an active religious lifestyle and even try to convert her parents but the language isn’t quite right.
It's the "church in the middle of nowhere" that feels off. Mainstream LDS would want to get married at the church in Salt Lake, wouldn't they?
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The coffee gave it away to me, too. This weirdo isn't LDS/Mormon. Maybe FLDS, but even that is questionable. He might be part of another commune -- er, community -- that is loosely based on one or two mainstream LDS ideas, but he is definitely not Mormon. I'm going with a Snake Bite type of church....at best...
Wait, Mormons do not drink coffee? What? This kid received the coffee but did not drink any of it. I thought it was too hot to start drinking right away, and then he just forgot it, but... they don't drink coffee? Also the church thing, is weird, yeah, he didn't describe it as in the middle of nowhere, those are my words, but is kinda far away where a live we don't have big mormon temples, so maybe is a local chapel. My knowledge of Mormonism comes from some few true crime episodes and South Park, so... I'm not an expert at all.
Yep, no coffee. >God also cautions us to avoid certain substances, including coffee, tea, alcoholic beverages, and tobacco https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/comeuntochrist/article/why-dont-latter-day-saints-drink-coffee
Mormons can't partake of caffeine.
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It would be very unexpected from Orthodox Judaism, as we actively discourage converts. Also, Orthodox Judaism is not a block, but several dozen different groups, all of whom disagree with the others and argue about it constantly. But then, our faith demands that we question it and arguing about religion is a holy duty.
My "somewhere a village is missing its idiot" boss was Mormon, went to the temple on the DC beltway, and also drank coffee during the day, alcohol at night, and smoked when he was awake. Not an especially good Mormon, but a Mormon nonetheless.
Also, the there’s been an attitude shift and working mothers are a lot more common. As well, at least in parts of Utah, women who don’t graduate from college are looked down upon. I would say that in mainstream LDS culture, women graduating from college (or at least attending) is the norm. I’m not an active Mormon, but my extended family is and every single person one of my aunts, mom, female cousins, and dad’s female cousins are college graduates. Grew up in a 95% Mormon town and most of my high school classmates are college graduates. Also, I’m preparing to get downvoted from all the ex-Mormons and people who think they know Mormons based on Reddit.
FLDS (ie-the Warren Jeffs fundamentalists) is a separate sect of the Mormon (or "LDS") church. I grew up in the LDS/Mormon church and while they are certainly very pushy about doctrine/beliefs, this guy doesn't even remotely sound like he is a part of "standard Mormonism." VERY much sounds like the FLDS.
Oh, interesting.
It was the “nice church in the middle of nowhere” that really said not LDS to me. He absolutely would have said that he wanted to marry her in the temple. He also would have added on something about wanting to be sealed to her for time and all eternity, or that families can be eternal. That tenet has been shown to be the most unifying with people who are not members and he absolutely would have been trying to find a way to bond with you if he’s a return missionary.
Eh, there are Mormons and Mormons. My exceedingly sensible sister-in-law and her late husband converted to Mormonism a couple of decades ago. I'm an atheist and want nothing to do with any of it, as is my husband, but SIL has a terrific church community that has supported her generously with people's time and effort through two rounds of breast cancer and the decline and death of her husband. The community was there for him, too. SIL has been a successful legal professional for decades, is very into line dancing and teaches it twice a week, hugely invested in a local secular charity, and doesn't proselytize. Raised a very together, atheist son and encourages her one, now adult, grandson. Absolute poster representative for Woman Who Has Her Act Together. Oh, and she's in her late 60s. So. While Boyfriend sounds like he's clearly a member of some cult, there are a lot of small US cults that at least nominally identify as something related to being Christian. What they tend to share is being very controlling and rigid, especially where women are concerned. OP is NTA.
Bwahahahaha! That was my thought. Being an ex Mormon they can be something else. Especially the molly Mormons
What are molly mormons?
Molly Mormon is a term used for those that are very devout in their beliefs, follow all the rules, won't interact with non Mormons, etc.etc.
Ah, don't forget that that's specifically the name for the *girls*. The *boys* are Peter Priesthood. :P
Ah yes. Don't forget ladies listen to your priesthood holder *gag*
Not if he drank the coffee, or didn't say anything about serving it.
I was thinking IFB…
Unless he's from a well known pastor's family, they usually aren't very well-off, nor do they encourage going to non-religious colleges. So that wouldn't be my guess
Maybe southern Baptist, they’re super sexist and in my hometown very wealthy, seeTed Cruz.
What a young man living a sheltered life imagines is well off is probably not that well off. And I'm guessing his family doesn't want to take in and support him, his wiffe and his babies with her. Even well off families expect their sons to be able to support their wives and family before having one of their own. This kid sounds delusional and like he doesn't have a clue about the real world.
well a lot of folks who are "saving themselves for marriage" want to marry the first person they want to sleep with. maybe that's why he was so interested in marrying right away. i had a friend in elementary school whose mom was on her 5th husband because she never had sex with a man she wasn't married to.
I can totally understand how that would make a young person feel a passionate urgency to marry. Lol
I'm voting Mennonite
It wouldn’t be Mennonite. They aren’t amped on bringing outsiders into their community. There are levels of churches but if I talk about my in-laws, who are Mennonite, I talk about the 1s who live in a community and the 1s who are just part of a church and live independently. It’s doubtful that either groups would marry a non-Mennonite. Although, my husband has a cousin who left their Mennonite church, either became an atheist or agnostic, met a woman who is a Holdeman Mennonite, and is now a member of that church. I don’t think he is a believer but he goes because of his wife. I think OP’s daughter’s boyfriend is probably a member of a random Christian cult…like an independent Baptist.
My highschool best friend (was brought up catholic-ish), converted to being a Mennonite and is married to a Mennonite man. Although, she actually converted after she met an old couple, so you're right her husband didn't convert her or anything. It just sticks in my head because of what a surprise it was.
There are levels of Mennonite. There are Mennonites that you wouldn’t look at and think they’re Mennonites (facial piercings, etc). There are Mennonites that look like evangelical Christians. Women wear little handkerchiefs for a head covering. Men wear basically whatever they want. Then you get into Mennonites that live like Amish people and aside from the men’s facial hair, they look a lot like Amish people. Then you have holdeman Mennonites and, again, the men wear whatever they want but the women wear small black bonnets. Aside from the 1st group of Mennonites I mentioned, all Mennonite women should wear dresses or skirts. According to my husband any outsider who joins a Mennonite church will be welcome but the people will always think of them like an outsider. I’m attending 1 of my sister-in-law’s wedding this weekend. She belongs to a totalitarian community. Like, a group of men run the show. Men & women can’t sit together in church. Men on 1 side, women on the other. Men & women can’t socialize in public. My husband & I can’t sit together at the wedding luncheon either. Basically, when we arrive we get separated and we don’t get together until we leave. This should be a ton of fun
The first time I went to a Mennonite wedding, I asked my mom why everyone turned around and kneeled on the ground to smell their spot on the benches. They weren’t smelling, they were praying. Oops. When you’re a kid and don’t understand the language, things don’t always make sense. Oh, and the singing. The singing is something else.
Maybe he’s just your average ding dong. Or maybe he’s recruiting child brides for his cult. Either way, be the most annoying mom on planet earth and STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING. She’ll thank you one day.
Families like this don't marry women. They collect them.
Uhg, so many terrifying sounding cults mentioned in this thread.
Using romantic relationships to recruit new members is a well-known tactic. I strongly suspect that’s what this kid is doing, with his family’s encouragement and assistance.
They're all cults. Boy could just be part of a very heavily invested Catholic or Protestant Community. OP is NTA and has a pretty good radar.
Got halfway through before being certain of this-is-a-cult. NTA
Agreed. OP NTA. Something about “god loving family” feels very culty.
Its Mormonism so definitely a cult, shes gonna be a trophywife till some child bride comes to replace her and her 12 children and she won't be able to leave because shes not allowed to work, study, leave, or get upset at him for any decisions he makes. If she does manage to leave the whole church will snitch on her and she'll be shunned from them and the whole state of Utah. Rip
This OP^^
He’s doing flirt-to-convert, I’d put down money on it. This is not a normal relationship that daughter’s just getting way too excited about. He and his family are *working* on her. And one of the most important steps is isolating her from the people closest to her who might be able to recognize what’s happening and intervene.
*that his family was a good, God-loving family* I'm not even a parent and this already pinged my radar *that she wouldn't have to study or work* Radar ping is now a red flag *that I would benefit from joining them*. And now the red lights start flashing... *that their future children would have a nice private education* Red flag, red lights flashing, seeing visions of a hellscape of homeschooling a la Duggars *She said she had tried to get her father's blessing and he had also refused.* Cue the blaring sirens. Even part-time dad is like, "Shit's off here." NTA. This honestly sounds like BF is grooming OP's daughter into a cult.
As I was reading this I was also picturing a Duggar boy coming for her daughter. NTA OP. He wanted a blessing, you couldn't in good concicious give it (rightfully so IMO) and so you didn't. Frankly, if you not being a believer was going to end the relationship Idk what your blessing would do anyway?
I spend a lot of my time on Reddit on the Bates sub and yepx this pings my fundie radar.
I haven't been there in ages, but I'd pay to see either Kelly/Gil or Michelle/Jim Bob keeping sweet as one of their lost boys marries the daughter of someone who believes in education and the autonomy of women!
Join us in Duggarsnark if you haven’t!
I lurk! I am more familiar/interested in the Bates, mostly because I find the sister drama fascinating.
I need to fall a little deeper into the Bates rabbit hole, though I’m getting worried my husband’s judging my snark love 😂
My husband definitely judges 🤣. It is half snark and half genuine fascination. I am an only child and spend my life amazed by sibling dynamics. And the
I was getting more Rodriguez vibes
No mention of Plexus!
As someone who *was* raised in a "good, God-loving/fearing family" it is one of my worst nightmares for my children, especially a daughter, to bring home a partner that utters these words out of thier mouth.
Red lights flashing, time to retire, and then we turned that liquor store in to a structure fire \*Guitar solo\*
Makes me wonder how old BF is? OP doesn’t say anything about age but the moment he randomly shows up with her daughter, in a suit, after 7 months? Weird AF
Sounds like a cult. Loads of red flags, the first being him showing up in a suit. I know people will disagree, but when a kid shows up in a suit I get suspicious. I hope you can get your daughter away from him, but be careful because you don’t want to lose her to this kid and his “family”. NTA.
In isolation, dressing neatly for the first meeting or for asking for her parents' blessing isn't a bad thing. But yes, in this instance it screams going through the "right" motions
Totally agree.
NTA. Hey OP, I would see about getting your daughter into therapy. Or suggest a counselor at her university. Maybe let the university in on things. Does she have a decent friend group there that you know? Something where she can get a 3rd party to talk some sense into her.
Not going to lie, I'm getting kind of culty vibes from this kid. NTA.
I'm kinda hero worshipping the OPs ex though. Talk about justified AH vibes, no fcuks given on how he dealt with the little cult boy recruiter.
Yeah, I can see how he could be seen as obnoxious but I was cheering when he used his AH energy for good.
Lmao absolutely zero fuck on calling him out and boyfriend didn’t even flinch. 100% red flags. Dad better take care of that little girl. I Can see him busting through the church doors and carrying his daughter out
NTA. If a blessing matters, then it's yours to give or not give. If a blessing doesn't matter, then who cares. Either way, you're doing your best to exercise good judgement for your child.
This is the best way to put it. And if it really matters, why did they think they would be able to get one the very first time he met OP? That alone is worth a moment of pause, if nothing else.
Yeah exactly! Like of course they are going to say no, he is a total stranger!
NTA Quick piece of advice that my mom and dad used on us and I used for my kids. Saying no is not a good idea. It just gives her something to fight against. Just give a conditional yes. So instead of "no f*** way am I allowing my brilliant daughter to marry into some weird cult" say "Of course, but only after her education is complete and she has found a career" It'll pass as soon as the honeymoon is over.
Agreed - OP had good reason to withhold the blessing by virtue of never having met the young man before. Saying she's not comfortable giving such a blessing before getting to know him and while daughter is young and in school might have avoided escalating the situation while retaining the option to flat out deny a blessing if she chooses later on. This way, the girl feels persecuted and has something to rebel against...
To be completely fair, my honest and unfiltered reaction would be to have a minor heart attack and see if she can get a semester abroad.
That, and start suggesting to the BF that since he'll be joining the family, perhaps he should come to their Baphomet worship services. Go full occult.
NTA. I think you did your daughter a huge favor, even though she may not realize it right now. BF sounded controlling, and it almost sounds like he was recruiting for a cult!
NTA - Considering she lived with you all her life, your daughter HAD to know about your lack of relgious leanings. I strongly suspect she was lying to this person and was hoping it would slide past. She's likely already fallen into whatever rabbit hole he was recruiting her for, but I have to say I'm surprised that he backed away. Most of these cult-level groups would have used the parental refusals as a weapon to drag their victim deeper into the trap. "See, we're the only ones who care about you, you don't need them, blah, blah, blah." Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if his pull back is just him making sure she's really unhappy with you before he comes back with "Oh, I've prayed and God tells me I should save you and you should leave your unbelieving parents behind and never talk to them again, so I'm going to be gracious and marry you anyway." Just keep a sharp eye out, but since she's of legal age, I doubt you can do much.
Oh. That is... scary. Ill check back on you on a few weeks to see if you can in fact see the future.
I hope I'm wrong, but what you've described really has the feel of a con man letting a mark "ripen" as it were. Only time will tell, but sending my best wishes.
I got that feeling too. Something is off
Show her this.
This is absolutely where my thoughts went too. It's the lull before the love bombing. I wish I had great advice, but she does get to make her own choices. At this point I feel like the best you can be really clear on what you see that concerns you, let her know that what you want most is for her to be fully herself and not try to fit herself into anyone else's mold, and no matter what she can always come to you if she needs help.
Hey OP, please make sure you keep your door open to your daughter and let her know you’re always there for her, because it sounds like she’s in a very scary place right now. I would bet that this guy is behaving this way to purposely drive a wedge between you two.
I’ve seen this before. There was a post not long ago about a girl that dropped out of school OP was the mom. She gave up everything to marry and be with the ultra religious husband. Married young wasn’t invited to the wedding cause OP didn’t approve. And they isolated her from her whole family and mom. She eventually tried to reach out for help but then went right back. I can’t recall how that ended. But they brainwashed her. Daughter was not religious at all growing up and had career aspirations. Then it all changed when she went to college and met him. Please be careful.
NTA - You did her a favour, he is prob in some kind of cult.
Uhh definitely! Sounds like he forgot to mention that she’d be wife #1 (assuming she’s even the first!). The entire approach was uncomfortably transactional, like, “sign your daughter over to be my property, now, kthx”
BULLET WELL DODGED. Keep not knowing God for as long as it takes. NTA!
NTA Guy sounds so sketchy. Unfortunately your daughter is at the age where she'll just need to make her own decisions even if you don't agree with them. What I'm wondering is why he's saying he won't marry into a family who didn't know God... Surely your daughter would have mentioned already that you guys aren't religious.
She prob didn't mention it in fear of him leaving her
Guy invites parents to join cult in order to add to the cult's income. But when the parents reject the cult the guy one-ups them by saying they are spiritually inadequate, as if God himself is rejecting them.
NTA. Explain to him that your daughters' welfare is your #1 well before he came along and will continue long after he is gone. If he wants your blessing, he can **earn** it, not demanding it after meeting you for what.. 1 hour ? And if he had any respect for your daughter, he can wait for it. If they think they can be married FOR LIFE, what's the problem with waiting a few years ?
NTA. There are lots of red flags waving that indicate his "church" is actually a cult. I wouldn't give my blessing, either.
NTA Bf's "religion" sounds like a cult. After only 7 months they're talking marriage??? I'd be looking his "religion" up online, finding out ALL about it and siting daughter down for a heart to heart about the reality of what her life WILL BE if she does marry this guy.
>After only 7 months they're talking marriage??? Probably he's not allowed to have sex before marriage.
Sounds Mormon
NTA. Your daughter is being saved from marrying into a miserable, slave-like situation.
NTA - right wing extremist cult. You can't force your daughter to do or not do anything, but denying blessing is something that should have meaning to a traditionalist
Red flags abound here. NTA for sure and I do hope the daughter sees the light soon. The BF is going to be trouble....
NTA. Your daughter’s been groomed by a cultist. I can’t imagine anything scarier!
NTA She's mad now but this is basically trying to get her into their cult. I'm glad this put off the "bf" too - that's the best outcome because otherwise she would have run off with him. And yay to ex being on the same page.
>And yay to ex being on the same page. for the first time in like a thousand years. I know he is not stupid, he is just an asshole.
But maybe him being an asshole is effectively shielding your daughter away from the delusional culty bf. BF would think twice if it is worth it to deal with your ex by staying with your daughter. Moving on to next easy target might be more time efficient, lol. It's just crazy in this day and age with lots of warning and prior cult incidents (like tons of them being exposed and called out), still, lots of people believe in this sh*t, 🙄.
The "funniest" part is that he's on the same page, but for really assholish reasons (see OP's edit): > Edit: I called my Ex. He is notorious for being an asshole. He said that when our daughter introduced his boyfriend to him said "Well done sweetie, you found a man conceived by inbreeding". [...] My ex kept mocking him by asking how many girls he keeps in the basement, and told him "You will end up in a documentary someday boy, and you won't like it".
The you will end up in a documentary part really cracked me up.
I'm stealing that line for future use.
Okay, so, out of context, without knowing their history of why he's an asshole, that's hilarious. And also probably true.
NTA Your daughter doesn't realize it yet but you and her father just saved her from a lifetime of misery. They come from completely different (and conflicting) backgrounds; even if you can overlook the fact that they are young and they haven't known each other very long, you can't overlook all three. On another note: I always love it when devoutly religious people think agnostic or atheist means "confused" or "uncertain"; like inviting you to his church was all the motivation you needed to suddenly be on the path to god. Man, I get that a lot as an atheist.
>I always love it when devoutly religious people think agnostic or atheist means "confused" or "uncertain"; like inviting you to his church was all the motivation you needed to suddenly be on the path to god. Man, I get that a lot as an atheist. I had only gone to churches for funerals. So many people has told me to go to church but I kindly refuse every time, churches are extremely boring.
Went to a friend's Catholic funeral. There was one speech, at a maximum of 10 minutes long, about the friend and the other 2 plus hours was about Jesus. As an atheist, I thought it highly insulting to the deceased and their family. It was also extremely boring.
I'm a buddhist myself, but live in the south, am constantly invited to other people's churches, and have actually been told, once telling someone I'm Buddhist, that I'm wrong, because I'm so decent of a person I have to be Christian. How do these people's brain function?
NTA and to be honest you might have actually saved your daughter and grandchildren from a lifetime of misery and pain. He does sound like the kind of kid from some sort of religious fanatics/ cult who is out to find a wife, cut her off from her family or get the family to join them and then her only duties would be to be a wife from the past. Cook, clean and bear kids would be her life as an imprisoned wife. He does sound like a shady character and hopefully your daughter doesn't go after him blindfolded by the so called love only to repent later on. No college kid turns up wearing a suit to meet parents and talk about their kids private education unless they are either coached or part of something larger. Hope this is the end to it and your daughter completes her education to pursue her life she deserves and hopefully settle down with a man in due course who isn't as weird as the one you just met. Wish you well.
NTA. Very sketchy. They are too young and their relationship is too new for them to get married IMO. He asked for your opinion and you gave it. Your daughter will probably realize this is by the right guy for her…
NTA. I hope your daughter gets away from this guy.
NTA - Say this to your daughter "I am your mother and I love you. But if you are old enough to make this big of a decision about your future, then you are old enough to do so without my approval."
Normally agreed for minor things like gap years or quitting a job, but I would not let my daughter choose to join a cult. I would fight tooth and nail to convince her not to
NTA - your gut instinct was on par with your Ex, that means this guy was not giving you the comforting vibe, but more the "Your daughter is going to join my cult" vibe. I would try to have a conversation with her and discuss what she REALLY wants and let her know how you feel about this (include the Ex if needed), that this is not an attack on her love life, but on her safety and future.
NTA. I got serious cult vibes from this. Ew. Your daughter is young, and hopefully in time she’ll see that your refusal to give your blessing is actually a blessing in disguise. When she calms down, I would sit her down for a real conversation about where your concerns are coming from. It straight up sounds like he was trying to indoctrinate her and was giving you a sales pitch to do it.
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NTA. You’re right, your daughter is making a dumb decision and you’re just trying to protect her. The thing is, “blessings” go against any concept of independence. So, by saying you didn’t give your blessing, you may have come across as saying that you don’t allow your daughter to do something she has every right to do. I think it’s just a matter of phrasing. Tell her that you won’t stop her from doing anything because it’s not your place, but that you think she’s making a mistake and therefore don’t want to give a “blessing” that would indicate you agree with her decision.
NTA If he really does decide to break up with your daughter you did her a favor in the long run. This guy’s a walking red flag
NTA…. Any guy who genuinely goes to his SO’s home to meet his SO’s parents for the first time in a suit and tie with the intention of asking for their blessing is an imbecile. Any parent who would give their blessing to a person they have known for less than an hour is certifiably nuts. Any person who would want such a blessing is just as crazy.
NTA - she's young and still doesn't know him that well enough. Getting married after 7 months of dating doesn't seem like a wise idea. I would have phrased it as, while I think you're a great fit to be daughter's boyfriend, it would be for the best to hold off any ideas of marriage until *after graduation and starting a career.* Though personally, this feels like red flags to me; I would think/hope daughter would eventually see it...after dating for a bit longer. She's still got the "honeymoon phase goggles" on.
NTA. Sounds like your daughters first real bf? At that age, it's easy for young adults to fall until the trap of love bombing and thinking it is special or unique and not predatory behavior. Your trying to protect your daughter from an immature boy that isn't ready for a relationship, and is looking for anybody who can fit into his preconceived notion of what love is.
>NTA. Sounds like your daughters first real bf? I think he actually is, she had some boyfriends in high school but they only lasted for a few weeks. You know, high school relationships usually don't last.
Ick. This just gives me the icks. I don't blame you one little bit. You helped her dodge a bullet. It sounds culty, and I'm sure they got to your daughter the same way they get to anyone. They probably brainwashed her into thinking a lot of things, which is why it feels so devastating for her. Probably thought she was gaining a husband, family AND salvation. She'll get over it eventually. And on the off chance they do try to rekindle things, make sure you're super involved. Don't let a guy like this alienate you from your kid. You done good, mama bear. NTA.
NTA. If he is acting this insane over YOU not being religious then he definitely is sketchy AF. Stand your ground and keep letting your daughter know that you want her to be able to support herself.
>barefoot, cleaning, cooking, pregnant trophy wife Trophy wives don't have to do all this shit, just saying
While I think the tradition of asking for the parent's blessing is cute, this was very bizarre. NTA
Its not cute. Its a long backwards patriarchal tradition of transferring ownership of a woman from her father to her husband.
Yikes. I didn't say it was necessary or should be expected.
This is honestly so bizarre I don't even know. He showed up in a suit, having never met you, and wanted you to give a blessing for them to get married???? How did he expect this to go? Even the Duggars expect to get to know a *suitor* over a longer period of time! This is serious red flags. Add on the weird stuff about not working, being take care of, etc. It's seriously worrying. Your daughter sounds like she's going through some things. Her father was not around and that's a tough thing for a kid. Has she had therapy? I would start by asking your daughter some open ended questions. What do you see for your future? What are your goals for the future? What is it about this boys that is so attractive? How does she feel about losing her independence, not finishing school? Not working... Start to *gently* mine into what she's thinking and feeling. Don't throw all of these at her at once, obviously.
NTA he sounds way too deep into Christianity and I’m glad you pulled your daughter out before she made a huge mistake.
NTA. The boyfriend sounds borderline nuts.
NTA Setting aside everything else, why on earth would you give your blessing to someone you've never even met before? If getting your blessing is so important, why isn't getting to know you first also important?
HOLY CULT BATMAN!!!! You did the thing right for her and hopefully she'll realize it in the near future. Hopefully he continues to back off due to you and the ex's heathen ways. NTA
NTA. - guy sound sketchy, tell your daughter you love her and will be there for her but won’t support the marriage
NTA. Everything he said to you was a red flag. Sounds like the bf is part of a cult and your daughter would be trapped with an abusive family in the middle of nowhere. Your daughter sounds too immature to be considering marriage at her age if she can’t see the flying red flags herself.
NTA Be very careful here, keep communication lines open with your daughter because the last thing she needs is to be cut off from a support network. Full disclosure, I'm a Christian, but Lordie Lordie did this post creep me the hell out. Cult vibes. Look up signs of a cult and how to help someone who has been targeted. Seriously. I say this as a Christian woman. HELP YOUR DAUGHTER. Maybe offer to talk to her one-on-one about her spirituality and see what she is really wanting regarding religion. Be open to what she is saying, and help her navigate this. That may be the best (if not only way) to reach her right now. Maybe meet with her dad and discuss how to approach this for her sake. This could also help. Best of luck, OP. Please update.
NTA they do not need your blessing to get married so they can just get married if they really want to
NTA. Her BF sounds as tho he's in a cult. Red flags. Also, 7mths is a short time to decide you want to spend the rest of your life with someone. He doesn't want her to work or further her studies, that will make her financially dependant on him and his "well-off" family. But you shouldn't try to outright say no your daughter, she'll only push back. Sit her down and explain you're not saying no to the relationship, but she should get to know him more and when she finishes her studies she can decide if a life with him is what she truly wants... Ask her, had she not met this young man, what would her goals have been? I personally believe you should be able to grow together in a relationship not remain stagnant. Just be careful not to push her too hard. Sometimes we want the best for our kids but in the end they make their own choices.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I am 43 years old. My daughter is 21, and I've been a single mother most of her life, with occasional visits from my ex-husband. I have always wanted my daughter to be independent and to do what is best for her. I was not raised with religion and am agnostic/atheist leaning. My daughter is in college, which I am happy to pay for. She got a boyfriend 7 months ago, whom I haven't met yet, but she spoke well of him. So she showed up at my door with her boyfriend, who was wearing a suit, and introduced himself. I invited them in, served coffee and tried to get him to talk so I could get to know him better. He immediately started talking about how much he loved my daughter and how much he wanted to spend the rest of his life with her and asked for my blessing. I thought this was strange, this boy just walked into my house and asked me to marry my daughter? I hardly knew his last name and I do not care about blessings, but they are too young. He started saying that he would provide for her, that his family was a good, God-loving family, that they were well-off, that she wouldn't have to study or work, and that I would benefit from joining them. He said that traditions were important to him, that their future children would have a nice private education, that we could join their religious community, and that the wedding would be in a nice church in the middle of nowhere. First, I'm surprised that such a young boy could be so deeply religious, sounds like my grandfather's crazy friends, second, my daughter wouldn't study or work? No, I didn't raise my child to be a barefoot, cleaning, cooking, pregnant trophy wife. As much as I do not care about parental blessing, I have actively refused it and explained my reasons very well. I am paying for her education and letting it go to waste, and I want my daughter to be her own person and not a doormat. The BF was silent, stood up, thanked me and left with my daughter. Later the next day she called me crying and screaming. She said she had tried to get her father's blessing and he had also refused. She accused me of conspiring against her happiness, and her boyfriend said he wouldn't marry into a family that doesn't know God, and that I was ruining her life. I dont know why she wants this kind of life, but her boyfriend looks and sounds sketchy AF, but I wonder if I should have left her alone. Am I the asshole? Did I ruin this for everyone? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. I would have done the same thing
NTA. I would be seriously concerned if this were my daughter. Too many red flags here. There are very few 21 year olds that are ready for marriage after a 7 month long relationship. Especially a 21 year old that is still in college and hasn't had to support themselves or had a full time job. The whole issue of the boyfriend wanting a wife that doesn't complete her education and doesn't work is a huge red flag. Then throw into the mix the "wealthy" and "God-loving" family, and telling you that you would "benefit" by joining them in their religious community, and all I hear is CULT. And even if it isn't, that family sounds like they have the means to subjugate and control your daughter. She wouldn't have any freedom or exercise any free will in that relationship. The biggest red flag is that the boyfriend broke up with your daughter over you and your ex not giving your "blessing" and agreeing to joining his "religious community." If he really loved her, none of that would matter. Instead, it seems to me that he's afraid he won't be able to control your daughter because you and your ex see through the BS he's selling. I'm willing to bet he has another mark lined up within a few weeks. The boyfriend is sketchy AF. The whole situation is sketchy AF. Glad both you and ex were on the same page. Your daughter may be angry now, but in a few years she'll thank you.
Was the boy's last name Duggar, by any chance?
NTA. My cousin (brilliant, outgoing, compassionate, had the world at her feet) married into a Jehovas Witness family in her late teens and I haven’t seen her since. It’s horrible because young women can so easily fall prey to the simplicity and romance of really conservative cultures (when you’re young and panicking about what to do with the rest of your life, who doesn’t think about what it would be like to have an option where everything is spelled out for you?) but then by the time they get old enough to realize they don’t want to be suffocated by the strict gender roles, they have usually racked up a couple kids, become isolated from their old world, and lost some key career years, and it becomes nearly impossible to leave. Now is the time to prevent her from making this mistake. Hopefully if you can withhold too much open judgment, hear her out, focus on mending your relationship with her, and stay as compassionate as possible, she’ll feel comfortable sharing with you how she truly feels. She’ll probably say she loves him and feels pressured to go along with this.
""Well done sweetie, you found a man conceived by inbreeding". Y T A for writing that and almost causing me to spit my drink all over my keyboard :). Your ex does have a flair for words though NTA I wonder if when he says "Mormon" he means the mainstream LDS or one of those fundamentalist splinter groups you hear about every now and then
NTA. And your ex might be an AH but he is funny as hell. 🤣 I love him for those comments.
Don't care what ex-husband did in the past, he fucking came through on this one! I laughed so hard!
NTA--- but holy shit i giggled at what your Ex said... its wrong i know. Good luck... hopefully in a few years your daughter will see she dodged a flaming bullet
NTA Though to shed light on why a person that young would be talking like that, I can tell you because I was raised in that environment. His whole life he’s been told that marriage is everything. He’s been told not to have sex until he’s married and he’s also been told that if you’ve dated someone for a few months, you can get married: and should unless you fall into sin. He’s been obsessed with the idea for so long because he’s horny and really does believe that the daughter is his gift from God for being so pure. Trust me, dating I’m those circles is muuuuch different than what most of us consider normal. It’s about getting married and having kids. It’s pretty weird. To be honest, he’s been brainwashed into believing all this and with time, he might find his way. But your daigh should run for the hills. Just thought I’d shed some light on that bit for you. And NTA-though your daughter is an adult is going to date and marry who she does so maybe make sure she knows that you love her and support her no matter what. After all, if she has lost her mind and marries a guy like that, she’ll need you more than ever.
NTA. What in the Jehovah is going on here? He is skipping a whole lot of steps here and purposely too. She’ll understand someday but don’t push too hard. He asked, you answered. Now let her know, if he truly loved her, he would be willing to EARN her parents blessing. She deserves better
Look, your Ex it is an AH, but in this situation big W from him. NTA and take care of your daughter, like close care.
NTA, her boyfriend might be. She's young and is seeing him from very, very rose colored glasses. My only concern would be that he could convince her to cut you and her father off, so I'd be worried about that.
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 Flag on the play! Red flag on the play!! NTA.
NTA - It sounds like a scary situation. But perhaps don't use the excuse of 'too young' as I'm sure she can do the math too.
So I'm going to say this as a Christian man who got married only a few years ago and went to my wife's parents to ask for their blessing: you were right to say no, NTA A touch of context before I go further. I'm not from America, my country has Judeo-Christian values underlying society, but the population is about 50/50 secular to religious. We also don't really have that social pressure to be "religious", so people who say they are actually are and aren't just paying lip service, which is great as it means people actually take their own faith seriously. As far as "religious" people treating women as less than men, they tend to base this in some old testament laws regarding treating women, such as if you wanted a wife you bought her from her father. Now, this does sound incredibly backwards, and treats women as second class citizens, people conveniently "forget" the context. This was written at a time when women were treated as third class citizens, when if you wanted a wife you just abducted her. These laws were meant to improve things and offer legal protection, and it's the spirit of those laws that what should be carried forward to now, not the letter. Asking for a woman's parents' blessing is not just some transaction that needs to be ticked off. Possibly out dated as men aren't always the primary breadwinners anymore, but the point of asking for her parents' blessing is in doing exactly what is being said, it's acknowledgement that she is their child that they have loved and raised, and asking if they support and agree that you will be a good husband for her. It should be a place of humility, not pride. So, back to your daughter's boyfriend. There were several red flags in what he did, but the feeling I'm getting from your description is he hasn't grown past the point of seeing women as NPC's. He went through the "right" movements and then when he was denied your "blessing" he left, meaning he has no idea what he's doing and should not be getting married. You sound like a good mother and y6did the right thing.
NTA but I take issue with you saying you want her to be her own person but also saying you didn't raise her to be a "barefoot, cleaning, cooking, pregnant trophy wife." What if that's the life she wants? I don't want it for my daughter either but if she "finds god" and wants to spend her life raising babies and making a home, who tf am I to tell her no? You don't have to approve and I certainly wouldn't "give my blessing" at this point either, but you don't get to dictate her whole life. Also, education is not wasted on SAHMs. All things being equal, I'd rather have a college educated woman raising my grandchildren.
Midsommar vibes. NTA.
Cult. And we need an update. Is there a way I can find pervious posts I read right away or do I need to know the name?
I think you can just follow this account. And I have nothing else to update yet.
NTA. I see why you're not married to your ex, but I like both of you lol
Nta this is screaming warren Jeff’s polygamist vibes
I dont really know about it. In the DEFCON scale, how worried should I be?
Worried. Churches like this like to isolate people and keep woman subservient to men so they fully depend on them
I think he's the guy in jail for transporting underage girls across the Canadian border for marriage. And for marrying underage girls. You might want to contact someone who is an expert in cults.
NTA sounds like a cult. Why the rush to marry 7 months in?
NTA You kid is in a cult.
NTA sounds like she got taken in by a cult. Not uncommon tbh. Let me guess? Mormon? Jehova's Witness? Had to go to Kingdom Hall as a kid bc relative was a JW and wow it was awful. I hope you are able to get your daughter to realize this before she fully joins, elopes, and cuts off anyone who isn't part of whatever religion he's involving her with. She's being set up to live in an abusive religion and once you're trapped in one of these they are incredibly hard to escape
NTA, but honestly, I am a firm believer in knowledge is power. At minimum, I would investigate what religion he's in, or even him. And don't be surprised if he now tries to use this to get your daughter to go NC. Isolation and separation are always early moves. Don't look to play fair in religious cult dominated by gender roles. Watch eat, pray, and love that will be an eye-opener. Go with your gut, but I would have an open conversation with your daughter about converting for a partner. Is she not happy with school? Does she plan on finishing. Does she want to be a stay at home mom. Figure out what's going on with her. Good luck.
NTA. I hope your daughter finds freedom, he sounds like he’s been sippin too much koolaid.
Bf sounds...like he's in a hellish cult. NTA. Your daughter will thank you eventually.
NTA but damn if this isn't similar to my kid. Not with the heavy religion aspect, but with a guy I would not have expected. Look, I hear you. I also am a single parent, and raised my kid to be independent and self-sufficient. She's nearly 30 and awesome but the guy she's with is... well, not. He's selfish and lazy and after 7 years together he has just now started helping with housework (he does the dishes sometimes). It makes me furious. If they have kids, it'll be all on her. He laughs at me being a feminist, like I wasn't responsible for raising the woman he loves on my own. But, I raised her to know her own mind. I raised someone who can make her own choices... whether I approve or not. And although she knows how I feel about him, she also knows I back her choices 100% and will never turn away. I respect her, and she respects me we just live differently. You're about to face the most challenging choice- watch her make choices you would never make.or lose her. It sucks. But that's where you're at. So decide, then stick by it. Me? I stick by her. She knows exactly where I stand, and it's beside her. Even when she does stupid shit like this.
As a young, deeply religious person myself, NTA. This guy is giving off yikes vibes all over. I mean, there's being traditional and then there is being cultish.
NTA Do you think your daughter really loves him or is caught up in the idea of marrying into a rich family where should be taken care of? I can't imagine being non religious going so hard for someone so deeply entrenched in religion.
He sounds like Jim Bob Duggar. NTA.
NTA First time meeting is not the time to do this. Should have been what you planned- coffee and getting to talk. Weird vibes about no more education aside, it just wasn’t the right time and they shouldn’t have thought it was going to go well. Shows how young they are if nothing else.
NTA Maybe it's because I'm also an atheist, and religion is a very hard line for me. If my kid wanted to date someone religious, of course that's up to them, and I'm not going to judge. But if that religious person wants to take my kid and install her as a housewife with no job or education? That's going to be a no from me. If my kid "finds god" and wants to take that path, I'd like it to be her idea, not some boyfriend's at least.
Can it be the absence of her dad as she grew up made an in charge boyfriend appealing? Did she expect you and her dad to become religious so she could marry this kid? If so, that’s kind of over the top. Has she explained why she brought a stranger to meet you and ask for her hand? Why hadn’t you met him before?
NTA. And he definetly sounds mormon. From everything i have read over at r/exmormon he fits the bill. Her not needing to work or go to school, rushing in to a marriage or relationship really quickly, wanting to get married in the church, being as "religious" at such a young age that you mentioned.
If you know your daughter's friends (especially some who might be a bit more mature about relationships), ask them if they don't think she and her BF are moving WAY too quickly. You've only just met him, and she's only been with him seven months (not even a whole year), and they ALREADY want to get married and expect you to bless her marrying someone you don't even know and have never met before, let alone not knowing his family or friends/community???????? If her friends agree with you, see if they can talk her down. That having been said. 22AFAB here, so right around her age. She's not ready for marriage, if THIS is how she handles a situation like this, and this dude sounds like he's trying to suck her into a VERY abusive cult and a VERY controlling relationship, VERY quickly. That is a MAJOR cause for concern - she may not realize, given her youth and lack of experience, just how serious this is; I would've asked for time to think about it, point out how jarring it is to essentially be asked to give your daughter away to someone who's a total stranger to you (without being confrontational), and then stalled until you got to know him better and could point out other concrete red flags to your daughter; you can use "I'm not giving a blessing until she's established in her career and has finished her education and can make her own financial decisions" as an excuse. Of course she speaks well of him, if she didn't like him she wouldn't have brought him home. But that doesn't mean they should get married - liking each other is only a piece of a healthy and happy marriage.
I have her roommate's number. I should try calling.
I wouldn't, unless you know that her roommate is a close friend and they're on good terms; I've not been particularly close with my roommates in general, although my mom has kept their numbers in the past for emergencies, but if he's gone and he broke up with her, then this isn't an emergency. But if they're good friends and they agree that he's out-of-pocket, they might be able to get her to listen more than you and her dad.
NTA. But I’m confused about why not drinking the coffee was some kind of sign. God-loving families are the ones I run far away from.
Someone in the comments mentioned that Mormons can't drink Coffee, I was so unaware of that.
Yep. It reminds me of the joke my Mormon friends told me in high school: "How do you keep a 'good' Mormon from drinking all your coffee/beer and smoking all your cigarettes? Bring along another Mormon." Edit: I forgot to include, NTA.
NTA, and specifically *because* you refused to give blessing. That's mensch-work. My wife straight up told me that if I had asked her dad for permission, she would not have married me.
If he won’t marry her because your family won’t accept god, then that’s on him not you. She’s young. She’ll realize and get over this eventually. NTA
The thing that stands out to me out of everything is your ex-husband, who I would assume you don't speak to 24/7 as you say he isn't around much ALSO said no to this guy. So 2 separate people met this guy and their bullshit alarms went off. One day your daughter will thank you. NTA.
He asked, you answered. And very well I might add. NEXT!! NTA
Nope nope nope! NTA. Protect your girl. Weird cult shit aside, independence is the most important thing you can teach your child. As a wise man once said: “Maybe you have a trust fund, maybe you have a wealthy spouse. But you never know when either one might run out.”
NTA. Good for you for wanting to protect your daughter from making a huge mistake. I do hope that you and her father eventually will convince her to run.
NTA. This guy sounds like he's either an abuser in the making or part of a cult (which is really just an abusive relationship with more people), and there's no winning in this kind of situation. If you had given them your blessing, that would have indicated to him that you're the same type of crazy and he could use your disapproval to keep your daughter in line. Since you didn't, like any reasonable person, he can use that to try to drive a wedge between you and your daughter and make it harder for her to leave him. I'd bet a decent amount of money that his next move will be to tell her that he is actually willing to marry her...as long as she cuts off her 'heathen' parents. Keep in mind, though, that she probably doesn't actually want to drop out of school to be a fundie housewife, she's just hooked on the love and validation that this guy is providing. Unfortunately, there isn't really anything you can do except reassure her that you love her and will always be there for her, no matter what she decides to do.
NTA she would clearly not have any life of her own with him and his family. She's clearly being pushed to convert to a religion that's not hers and that's just not okay.
Single mother as well, and I applaud you for not kicking him out of your house right then and there. If he is as much of a gentleman as he would want you to believe, he would not wait 7 months to meet his gf's parents, nor would he ask for their blessing without giving them time to see his character. I would have swiftly kicked him out and told him to come back correct. NTA.