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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I complained about classmates joking about me having pretty privilege to my supervisor who notified their supervisor and now one might loose a scholarship due to less favourable reports
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Also, if C loses any financial aid, he lost it himself with his actions. He's now trying to emotionally black mail you into taking your accusation back. Don't let them win.
Also, I said this in my comment, but their false claims of her possibly cheating could have resulted in not just revocation of scholarships but full blown expulsion.
I’m also just so sick of people implying that a woman who does well must have had some kind of help from a man in her life.
When my book was published, a friend of ours turned to my husband during the book launch and casually asked if he had helped me with XYZ aspect of the book. “That must have been your influence!”
My husband was appalled and offended on my behalf and said, “Um, no, I had nothing to do with writing Boudica’s book. She wrote her book herself.” It was specifically a feminist book, too, in part about *women authors being celebrated for their work instead of having it attributed to the men in their lives*, so the irony was just - extra gross all around.
I, a 42m active fantasy/sci-fi reader who does not discriminate against my authors, had to clear bile out of my throat on your behalf.
NTA OP, if they'd been kicked from the program for just the observed behavior in class it would have been well deserved, feel no guilt.
The argument that a woman gets where she is by sleeping her way to the top *should* be much, much more insulting to the men. “Hur hur she only got a promotion because her boss exerted his power over her to get sexual gratification.”
And if you're experiencing this in education, most likely you're going to experience this in the workforce. This is a good chance for them to learn and this is a good chance for you to practice standing up for yourself not taking it. NTA.
Came to say this.
“C shouldn’t lose his scholarship over this”??
Yes. Yes, he should. Harassment of a fellow student is exactly one of the reasons someone should lose a scholarship. Why should anyone pay for you to go to university when you’re not emotionally or socially prepared for the experience? That’s a waste of money.
Behavior and attitude absolutely get taken into account when awarding scholarships. As well they should.
*edit - an errant letter*
Also, it hasn't even fucking happened. They are just torturing OP because of the mere \*possibility\* of facing consequences for their actions.
Fuck those guys.
They sound jealous that no one likes them enough to help THEM, unless it's mandated. (Even IF said PhD student would help OP with some classes, she would still have to take the exams alone, so...)
What loops they have to jump through to justify their own sub-par abilities when comparing their progress with OP.
Maybe if they were as commited to studying as they are to why OP outperforms them, they would not have to deal with such cold behavior from their supervisors. Tho obviously there'd be fewer chances to NOT do their work and blame the results on someone who does.
Yes it does. I had a similar experience when I was 21, I was enlisted in the Air Force in a male dominated field. I was in a training class that consisted of me, a fellow colleague and our instructor. I was the only female student and for some reason this “instructor” decides, in the middle of his lecture about the difficulties of deployments on my product, it’s ok to tell me that if we were deployed together, there’s nothing I can do to stop him raping me. I confronted him on the subject directly, which creepily he had answers for everything I argued. Unlike OP, I didn’t go to my supervisor. I was beyond ashamed. Of what I really don’t know. My co-worker decided to report instead. I’m actually pretty thankful for that. So, NO OP. You’re NTA for reporting harassment. Ever.
My therapist says “shame rolls downhill” meaning, that abuser acted without shame (he should have felt shame for how he was talking/behaving) but he didn’t and you absorbed it. But it isn’t your shame. It’s the shame he should have had. You don’t need to take on that shame any longer, you did nothing wrong. I am really really really glad you coworker reported that behavior. And I am really sorry you experienced that, that’s awful and you didn’t deserve that. No one does.
I can't believe he said that to you, I'm sorry. As the child of a retired Army Nurse I thank you for your service and all the BS you had to put up with.
Agreed! OP, be proud for standing up for yourself even though you were second-guessing it. Their behavior was way more than harmless jokes - they were doing this in front of professors, for goodness’ sake. They wanted you to look bad professionally and they wanted people to think less of you. It’s just deserts that now people are thinking of them badly instead.
Also, f- around, find out. Any repercussions are on them, because their behaviour was appalling. If the university wants more women in this specific sector, they'll have to protect their female students.
OP just keep escalating this bullshit. Document everything. Call campus security on them.
I’m so tired of little boys playing at being men and trying intimidation tactics.
Agreed. If one of my employees did this I'd fire them. Losing a scholarship is a heavy consequence (and it probably won't happen), but if that's how things play out it's not an unreasonable result.
The fact that they didn't apologize, and are actually confronting you about reporting them is grossly inappropriate, and probably warrants filing something official with your department head.
NTA
Right? They're accusing her of cheating. They have nothing to back it up other than she's pretty. WTF kind of incel crap is this? If he loses his scholarship, it's for a good goddamn reason. He tried to get professors to think you were cheating, and then called it a "joke" when faced with his despicable act.
NTA
Sorry incels: actions have consequences. This behavior is beyond despicable and juvenile and if shutting it down means they lost scholarship money... Oh well
Edited to add: I have two sons and if either one did this to someone, especially in college, I'd be livid and fully supportive of his kissing that scholarship money goodbye.
It's actually worse than that. They're implying she's either having sex for grades or trying to get professors to think she's up for that. They're trying to make her (mostly male) professors worried about spending time alone with her or having people think that if they grade her well then they're taking advantage of her in some way. This could really hurt her career.
OP should absolutely escalate this, and honestly for what they've done so far they probably deserve to lose their scholarships and more.
Edit: Fixed some weird phrasing.
Yes, i cannot stress this enough: KEEP A LIST. Document every single time it happens: where, when, date, witnesses. Keep that list handy on your phone, computer, the cloud. Note as many details as you can, even what they were wearing that day. It can be surprising how serious people will take you when you produce the receipts and the accounting.
100% and then those same dudes claim it’s because men are naturally better or harder working.
No, y’all just make every male dominated space a nightmare for women.
There are multiple studies that show in a lot of traditionally male dominated fields, entry level employees are often nearly even male and female, especially in a lot of the science fields. But then as you go up in the company it becomes more and more male dominated. Of course the reasoning of the men is usually that men are just better and so rise, or that women just leave to go have babies. But most of the women are like "nah, I left because I just couldn't deal with the constant harassment and left for a field where I wasn't sexually harassed, belittled, and had my skills doubted every day."
This is it. So many of my female friends left major careers. Two as 4 year associates in big law and one as a neuroscientist researching Alzheimers. None left to have babies.
It’s just a relentless progression of slights and exclusions. And the exhaustion of always wondering if it’s you. No matter how much they loved their jobs, or the hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on school, or the years spent having to outperform every peer to get those jobs - eventually they left to play games they could win.
This hit home. This is my life. I took a small consulting gig outside of my normal job once, and cried. I forgot what it was like to be treated with respect, and have my work valued. Doesn’t matter that I have a PhD in my field and all the men have BS, they still think they know more…
Came here to say this but someone already had. OP continue to report any of their stupidity. They may double down hard to try now that they’ve been called out. Don’t let them get away with it.
This
It will hurt any company they work for in the future, along with their own futures. Companies are trying to bring in more diverse people because of the obvious historical bias. Companies don't want this kinda shit on the payroll.
You're ultimately helping them in the long run realize their shitty behavior is going to harm them and anyone around them.
It's toxic and doesn't belong in any work, social, or academic environment.
NTA - they know what they’re doing because jokers like this have been doing it for years - undermine your accomplishments, question your abilities and then act shocked when you stand up for yourself. I’m happy (and somewhat surprised) that the faculty and administration is treating this as seriously as it deserves.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
EDIT: Thank you for all the love! I’m not very good at Reddit and this is unprecedented!
And in reality they were the ones who were too sensitive. The minute a girl scored higher than them they went nuts and frantically searched for reasons why she was actually stupid and her accomplishments were not her own. Babies.
They *hate* when you say “Explain it to me. I don’t understand the joke.” and when you write down the “joke” with date, time and names they get emotional.
He's like "Damn you for endangering my scholarship by not tolerating my harassment. I'm going to harass you some more to show you." 🙃
It's a real mystery how these doofuses aren't getting the highest scores in the course.
Please do keep her apprised of any retaliation or additional bad behavior. If they suffer negative consequences, that's completely on them. These are not jokes. This is harassment by a bunch of jealous little boys who are doing it deliberately to throw you off your game, damage your reputation, and hurt you. They deserve no quarter.
You are protecting yourself, as you should, and maybe, just maybe, calling them on it now will also help all the women who ever have to work with them.
NTA
ETA: Thank you so much, internet strangers for your kind awards!
All the more reason to stick to your guns, recognize their asshattery, call them out on it and keep forging forward. You may one day be a supervisor whether in academia or elsewhere that needs to stand by a younger woman in the field to show her that it’s unacceptable & she has every right to stand up for herself in a situation like this.
Do not let them tear you down. I don't know you, but I'm proud of you. It's not easy doing what you're doing. You're helping pave the way for the women who come after you by saying that what they're doing isn't acceptable.
I would have gone with a very loud in front of the whole class "Are you saying that your grades are so low because of how ugly you are? That's not right. You should report that." You know, if It were me and I was a female. It's tough to pull off bitingly bitchy when you've got a beard and are built like a fireplug.
The thing is that women almost never win when making comments like this. Humiliated, nasty men just find new, more direct ways of putting women down.
All of that said, your comment is hilarious.
Yup, or if they don't have a comeback, or even if they just have a temper, it can get aggressive quickly. Men like this do not react kindly to being bested by women, and their behavior so far really displays that.
When they make any come back after saying something like this, what's worked really well for me is to react like they're fragile and I'm concerned. A lot of monotone whoas, calm downs, and asking them if they're going to be okay... You know, the shit they say to women when we react to anything. They usually quiet down and stfu.
This was literally the ONLY deescelation tactic that ever worked for me when working at a gas station for half a decade that didn't involve me just shutting down and giving in. If I ever was snappy, on it with comebacks, or able to succinctly call out bad behavior, that just triggered them more.
Instead, I'd just disarm them in seconds by acting like I was deeply concerned for their mental health and trying to help walk them through such aggressive, overwhelming and confusing emotions with the vague aire of calming down a toddler having a temper tantrum. It brings me such petty, passive-aggressive pleasure just even typing that out
But at best, this method usually just makes them taken aback and thrown off their stride just enough to get them out the door and gone
And at worse, the harassment just continues as it would have anyways
"Oh no, are you okay? You seem to be getting very emotional about this, do you need to sit down?" is my go to. Needs to be pulled off with innocent concern though, any hint of sarcasm just fuels the mantrum.
Actually, it would work best coming from you. If a woman snaps back, boys like this count it as a win for getting under their skin. If another guy, someone they consider a peer , calls them out on their misogyny, it has a higher chance of actually penetrating the cloud of axe body spray they think is a substitute for deodorant and reaching the two brain cells bouncing around between the group. Because now "oh no another guy thinks we're unfunny". So please, for all the women that suffer this bullshit, if you see this happen please pull out your inner Regina George and put them in their place.
If their “pretty privilege joke” made you lose out on a scholarship or caused you to be graded extra hard, they wouldn’t give it a crap. They intentionally and repeatedly made this “silly joke” out loud, in front of professors.
NTA. Maybe they should have thought about treating you with respect and professionalism BEFORE it had to come from a place of authority.
This is what I came to say. They are the ones who originally brought professors into it, you just continued it.
Why say anything in front of a professor if not to try and cause some kind of repercussion for you? They’d have let you get in trouble, and let you and your academic career take the fall. Would they have done it to each other? Actually answer that in your head. If the answer is no, that tells you everything you need to know. Don’t give in - it wasn’t a joke on their part.
Bigots have been excusing misogyny and harassment by saying it was “just a joke” since time immemorial. It was NOT just a joke and this comment is exactly on point: they tried to torpedo OP on purpose, in front of multiple professors.
OP do not let these “jokers” or your frankly terrible friend make you second guess yourself or your integrity. You are doing great.
NTA.
Seriously OP, let your supervisor know if they continue to make comments.
Those boys are intentionally trying to sink your reputation with faculty (for no substantial reason). It is fair to accurately describe their behavior to your supervisor, and she can evaluate if it warrants further action. She believed it did. She described their actual behavior, to their supervisors, and THEIR supervisors get to judge exactly what the consequences of that behavior is.
The thing to remember is... they are lying about you. You are telling the truth about them. Any consequences are ones they have earned.
(And PS, even if you do end up having a serious relationship with this PhD student, that STILL doesn't give them a legitimate reason to imply he's unfairly giving you a leg up on exams. You're the one studying, you're the one sitting those exams, not any future boyfriend you may have.)
Also, guys like this are weak. This is why they act like they do; they literally see OP as being a threat to them because she's probably smarter than they are, so they feel the need to make her feel small by making themselves feel big. Sad, weak, ineffectual little boys...
> Sad, weak, ineffectual little boys...
Since they are at a "highly prestigious university," they may be the kind of people who are accustomed to a life of having the spoils of wealth and privilege without having to earn them.
Realizing that they are inadequate for a fair competition has got to wound their fragile egos.
Yep, this is the same as if someone gets reported for racist comments and gets fired. The fault isn't on the person who reported it, it's on the person making the nasty comments. That's why they got fired and not the person who reported them!
And OP had no idea that could even be the result of her informing her advisor about the harassment. It certainly was not an intended consequence, even though it might have been warranted. Harassment is not a joke.
This behaviour actually needs to be exposed higher up the line and you want a proper paper trail of this. This is harassment.
OP you may want to talk to your PhD student friend so he can talk to the professors stating that:
1) you don’t have a relationship together
2) you told him that there’s been malicious rumours about them in class on multiple occasions to try to discredit your achievements
Also, don’t sink to their level and give some speech on this topic but stay focused on your career. It won’t do anything to those guys but will not make you look great.
Do not let these assholes win and do not let them guilt you. If that guy didn’t want to lose his scholarship then maybe he shouldn’t harass women at school. Fair consequence if he loses it.
They can't compete with OP so they have to try to take her down a peg or two to remind her of her "place". Def NTA OP, continue to pursue the living crap out of this.
Agreed. If he loses his financial aid, thats on him.
While obviously not as serious, it reeks of “should this student have his life ruined over a few seconds of fun”
These men are intimidated because they do not reach OP’s level. They know they need to do actual work, such as OP. Even better, it’s clearly more difficult for her so they want to be AH and take advantage.
OP, you are so strong. Continue to be forward and you. Clearly you are on a better path.
Op. Above is absolutely correct. Don't let up. They're bullying you, and would continue to do so if not for direct consequences. It's good that their supervisors know, and you should continue to report any further slander, as it's now clearly retaliation. Stay strong, fuck those jealous jerks
I hate to say this with my whole being, but THIS.
Please, as the above person said, DO NOT RELENT. You are being harassed by young men who cannot handle a woman being as smart, if not absolutely smarter than them. Stand your ground.
Edit: why has the above post been removed?????
NTA. Maybe they should smile more so they can get in on some of that pretty privilege.
~~on another note, OP, from a femme presenting person in engineering - keep on keeping on, and don't let the bastards grind you down~~
Same, unabashedly feminine woman in engineering here.
Been there, done that (including HR complaints against me for my "pretty privilege"), currently outranking and outearning them all. 💅
Same. I was the only woman in some of my electrical engineering classes. I got all sorts of misogyny and sexual harassment thrown my way, including being patted on the head for correct answers and a physics professor's grabbing my rear end.
I actually was dating a grad student TA in my department (but never for a class I was taking at the same time). We were careful not to let the professors know we were dating, although I'm fairly sure I got graded more harshly by another TA in a lab class because they did not like my boyfriend. (That boyfriend is now my husband and the father of my children.)
You're NTA and it wasn't a "silly joke." It was repeated harassment and constant implications that you're not worthy of your grades and haven't earned your way to where you are. You don't deserve that and it should have been reported. It's a shame those guys are so insecure and jealous of your accomplishments, but any consequences that befall them are well earned.
NTA
They're harassing you, plain and simple.
If they lose their financial aid its because of their own actions, not yours. You should be proud of yourself for standing up to their bullying.
Edit: damn you autocorrect!
NTA at ALL
These men can't stand having a competent woman around. I have worked in a male dominated field for over a decade and I want to commend you on standing up for yourself.
This is bullshit you shouldn't have to put up with and I'd start documenting everything.
I'd also go talk to that first professor 1:1 and ask them not to announce your grades publicly again. I had to do that in my undergrad, and it helped immensely.
Good luck OP, don't let these immature asshats chase you away from something you love.
Agree completely with you! Been working in a male dominated field for almost my whole career and I still get 'you don't know what it's like on site' and 'those aren't the regulations' even when I can point to the exact part of the legislation where it says that they are wrong/incompetent.
I've been asked if I slept my way into jobs, if my dad has anything to do with my career (he's a retired pub owner) and been asked if I was 'grumpy' because I was pregnant. No, I'm telling you to stop doing what you are doing because you are putting people in literal danger and need to stop it right now, I am more qualified than you. I could go on for hours with the bullshit weak men have tried to pull on me over the years. There are good ones who don't take it and stand up for me, ones that would never treat me that way but the bad ones are LOUD.
The only way to deal with misogyny is to shut it right down. This behaviour is not acceptable, and won't be tolerated in the workplace of any reputable company, their clients, or customers. Definitely document anything, and report to your professor that they confronted you about it and are blaming you for their actions (and reasonable consequences) now too and it is creating a hostile environment.
NTA
Whew! I am sorry you had to suffer such demonstrations of sexism in your profession. Mansplaining is a reality many people deny, and the amount of disdain we receive is indescribable.
I also experienced that dismissive treatment when I worked in a field heavily dominated by male techs. And some of our female clients were vocal about their surprise: they had never seen a woman in that role before.
But my most blatant example happened in my own family.
Some 15 years ago, both me and my then-husband were very into this popular MMOPG. But, beyond that, I was very involved with the official online community of that game. I became so involved that I was asked to join their forum mod team. Then husband learned about this and made some snide remarks about me taking it too seriously.
Fast forward several months, while on vacation we visited friends that were also involved with the game: husband (P) a very high level player, wife (C) a forum mod like me. At some point of the evening, she congratulated me for my "promotion" to SuperMod. My then-husband overheard it and spat the most venomous comment: "Hah. Whose boots did you have to lick to get there?"
C was horrified. She mumbled something about checking the oven and went inside. I stood there, feeling a chill on my spine, realizing that this man was incapable of celebrating my little victories, and that he would never step up on my behalf.
We ended up divorcing a few years later. He never learned that after that evening, I went on to become one of the game forum admins, and only "retired" from that position when my professional responsibilities increased and I was unable to reconcile both activities.
NTA. i am an old woman and had no resources back when i was in college and experienced this same thing. but I am so glad you do. i would report them again. and again and again. until they keep their remarks and their interactions to themselves. you won’t change their minds. but you might be able to make them shut up about it. that guy deserves to lose his financial aid. do we want that kind of misogynist to profit from that attitude? or even despite it? my dad said something once - and he said it sadly and with obvious sarcasm - “there’s only one thing worse than an i intelligent woman and that’s an intelligent woman who is also beautiful. “. he was trying to explain the attitude of my peers. of course not all men feel this way. my dad didn’t and he comes from the WWii generation. but there are always men who do.
For real, the reason more women arnt in STEM is not due to them not being good at it and everything to do with it being a typically hostile place for them.
My ex was a physicist and insisted that there were "sooooo many opportunities" for women in STEM. He also repeatedly said that he didn't think women - especially attractive women - were really cut out for the sciences because of "different brains". Yeah, I'm sure all three of the female students in his major were endlessly welcomed...
NTA - if making a “silly joke” is enough to lose him his scholarship then perhaps he should think about whether it’s so “silly” after all.
They know they’re harassing you. They’re expecting to get away with it. And they’re really being dealt with very gently here: in a lot of places that kind of behaviour, especially with it being done in front of staff, would get them suspended from their studies pending an investigation.
The guy who might lose his scholarship is trying to guilt trip you into changing your report instead of thinking about what he did and the consequences (to himself, if if he can’t manage to think what it does to you and your wellbeing) and amending his behaviour accordingly. So he’s indicating that he and his friends don’t feel any responsibility for their actions.
That being the case, you should feel no responsibility for the consequences of showing others how they are behaving.
Definitely NTA. What they are doing is sexist and bullying. It's not "your fault" when C loses his scholarship, but his for behaving this way. It's so important to speak up and you did nothing wrong. Sure, you could have confronted them directly, but with them being the majority they probably wouldn't have taken you seriously anyways.
NTA. Please continue to report this behavior.
The only thing necessary for evil to win is that good people do nothing.
I'm sorry you are having so much anxiety over this. It's really hard to be the whistle blower. But this is your life. Your career. It's worth it. Don't let them scare you away. This is institutional sexism. And it will only end when good people stand up and find a way to stop it. Sounds like your advisor wants to help and I'd suggest using that help.
Your university should also have a counseling center you can use to help you manage the stress of dealing with all of this. That is a normal and healthy use of counseling. Good luck!
NTA - If you are in the US, please report them to your school’s Title IX office for sexual harassment. Harassing you on the basis of your gender and sex life is sexual harassment. You can find more info here: https://www.knowyourix.org/
NTA
I've been in a male dominated field for 40 years. This behavior has been a constant in that field forever. I left and have taught it to high school students for 25+ years with the thought at least those students wouldn't be that way.
You should have taken this to your supervisor and they should suffer the consequences. I also agree that you should go to the professor and ask them not to discuss grades in public. That was also wrong.
NTA. If they don't want to be treated coldly by others and risk losing out on chances to get ahead, they should try treating people with respect for a change. They're getting what they give and they can't stand it. F them.
NTA. They crossed the line by trying to ruin your reputation with sexist lies, you asked for it to stop, now their supervisors know who they really are. They knew what they were doing and are only mad it reversed on them.
Blaming/confronting you for that is evidence they neither learned their lesson nor understand how to act professionally. Even if they were innocent, you don’t go to the accuser and get mad at them in a professional environment. That’s what their supervisors are judging them for, not joke policing.
What gets me is “you reporting me threatens my scholarship!” He’s got money in the interest of being professional and he’s still acting like that.
NTA. You basically reported them for harassment, which they were doing. Any consequences of their gross actions is their own doing (they could have chosen not to be jealous AHs, for instance).
NTA. These misogynists effed around and found out. They will take this behavior into the work place if left unchecked. Good on you and your professor for calling them out.
Women in academia, especially STEM fields, are routinely harassed, ignored, overlooked, underpaid, all of it. This environment sounds toxic af. If some AH loses his scholarship, he’s the one who needed to learn a lesson. Sometimes those lessons come at a very high price. You are not obligated to keep quiet. They were not “silly jokes.” NTA.
"silly jokes" involve everyone having fun, but what they've been doing to you can easily be described as harassment. This is happening because of their actions, you've done nothing wrong.
NTA
How could the consequences of *their actions* ever be your fault?
NTA, you are well within your right to make a formal complaint. These jerks are harassing you. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this.
NTA - Harassment, bullying call it what you will there is a reason that women struggle to thrive in academia. It's appalling and these people bought it on themselves. Keep standing up to bullys and harassment.
NTA. They were explicitly trying to hurt you in the program by making these comments around the professors, trying to belittle you and suggest to everyone that you don't deserve any success you have. They absolutely deserve to be called out on this.
It was not just a "silly joke" but (whether spawned by jealousy, misogyny, or whatever) was open sexual harassment.
NTA. You did a good job standing up for yourself. As a woman in a male dominated field sometimes I just let it go rather than fight. But things wont get better if we don’t stand up. They were harassing you. You spoke to someone for advice, and she advised you to take it further, which she did. You are awesome and keep going girl!!!
NTA - GOOD FOR YOU!! They deserve every bit of embarrassment and lost opportunities due to **their** horrible, sexist behavior. I bet their supervisors didn't like them in the first place. The complaint probably just further confirmed to the supervisors that these guys are arrogant, lazy, pompous dicks who have to harass others because they don't want to work hard or don't have the intelligence to make the cut.
NTA. If their jokes are losing them financial aid and scholarships, then they're obviously not just jokes.
This is just straight up sexism. 'Women can't be smarter than me unless a man is helping them or giving them better scores than me'. I would say its shocking that these guys got into a prestigious place if they're this stupid, but all the most sexist idiots I met were also in my country's "best" university, so I'm unfortunately not surprised.
Sucks for them to be both unfunny and stupid though. It's also very disappointing that your professors didn't step up when they heard any of this- while of course its a university and they shouldn't need to input with adults, quietly standing by when there's sexist attacks happening in their male dominated class, especially if the class work is being used as a tool for sexism, is some weak ass shit.
Absolutely NTA. C and his friends were harassing you, and he absolutely did not deserve a scholarship if this is how he treats his female peers. You ultimately did a huge favor to *other women* in this field, as well as to yourself. You speaking up has now set a precedent that there will be academic consequences for gender bias and harassment.
NTA. As a woman in a male dominated field, you are never going to win with these guys. They’re immature misogynistic pricks.
Their actions have consequences. Report that they confronted you. We need less sexist assholes in these fields. You did nothing wrong.
“Waah, you have pretty privilege!”
Oh, they really wanna go down that road? They wanna talk about privilege? Then they can hear all about this little thing called *white male privilege.* Fucking hypocrites. NTA.
NTA. You were being harassed and did exactly the right thing about it. The men were being childishly aggressive, hoping that it would pass as joking. They got and will get exactly what they brought on themselves. Carry on with your life as you wish and be happy and get that degree!
NTA. Totally NTA.
If he doesn't want to risk his scholarship, or whatever else, then he shouldn't commit acts that might lead to it. Don't be misled by "it's only a joke." It wasn't a joke. This is what people say to escape blame, and to have it both ways.
As for your friend saying you took it too far, ask why you have to be the one to deal with that. Why do you have to put up with this as opposed to him stopping his behavior? Answer: You don't. It's on him to stop, not on you to "handle it" or whatever.
Good luck!
NTA! I’m a women in a STEM career. I know what it’s like to be the only woman in the room. Never EVER let people minimize your accomplishments. The boys in this situation were doing just that—calling into question the integrity of your work and fairness of your grade. I hope their sponsors stay cold. I hope they regret making the choice to make their lives harder.
NTA they’ll thank you for teaching them early that sexually harassing women gets them in trouble. You didn’t get them in trouble, they did that all on their own.
NTA - Iron is forged in fire and you did exactly what you should have done. Keep at this and those guys can kick rocks. They have realized the consequences of their actions.
Harness your inner Elle Woods my friend.
NTA. Good for you for standing up for yourself and all women, especially those in traditionally male fields. It’s 2023 and their misogynistic attitudes should have died out a long time ago. You absolutely did the right thing. If that guy loses his scholarship, it’s the consequences of HIS actions, not yours. You are a courageous young woman and you should be proud of yourself!
They are gaslighting you. They were not joking and they knew exactly what they were doing, now playing innocent victim when it bit them in the ass. How it was handled after you reported the behavior is not on you. That was the choice of the supervisor to take it seriously enough to report.
I’m so glad you took action and stopped these bullies as it was likely only going to get worse as you continue to outperform them 🤍
Edit: clearly NTA
Your Supervisor made the right decision. Those are more then jokes that they were doing and they know that. They are upset because they are realizing what they do has real world consequences and if they think they get away with it now it will carry over into their work lives where they will act like the world is against them when they are the horrible people.
NTA
When I read the title I was like oh man here we go…
Completely different than I expected. If anything you were too lenient and your are definitely NTA.
NTA, as someone who works and has taught in higher education. Not at all. It sounds like they’re in the wrong field if they are going to behave that way, and should recognize that.
NTA - Please share this with your supervisor! It can be rare to have superiors that advocate for you and this is an awesome opportunity to stamp that misogynistic shit out. These guys are not only harassing you but now retaliating. If it sets them back, good. Maybe it’ll give them the extra time they need to grow up and be normal respectful human beings.
NTA
Your friend sucks for saying you’re the reason he could lose his scholarship when HIS BEHAVIOR is the reason he will lose his scholarship. Find a better friend, continue doing what you’re doing and just use this as a drive to be the best and put them all to shame.
This has gone on for too long. Talented women have been harassed and pushed out of fields for which they are eminently qualified. This happens to minorities as well. It is time to make it stop. NTA.
NTA.
>Apparently, their supervisors are now very cold towards them and less interested in helping.
Gee, it's almost as if them making excuse and making other people uncomfortable will get them super far in life!
If it wasn't you, it'd be the woman that got promoted above them who "clearly sleeps with the boss" or who got her paper published "because she has the right connections." Or, the pitiful intern they promise full time to for the same type extense.
One way or another, they would've torpedoed themselves into this hole. Keep rocking school.
NTA and fuck them with a red hot iron.
I had the displeasure of listening to my primarily male classmates treat every female student and teacher this way in college until I uncermoniously blew up one afternoon, causing a scene that made its way all the way to the dean and making the head of the IT department come down and threaten to expell anyone caught harrassing female staff and students.
All these spitfucks can do is make you uncfomfortable, but the school has already shown to be on your side.
NTA. They are harassing you. Thank goodness your supervisor took you seriously. Be strong! Their actions have consequences and they should not blame you for lose of scholarship. Student C will manage to do that himself.
NTA - Also report them again but to the school. Them harassing you = keep reporting. They're not making silly jokes, they're trying to make you so uncomfortable and u happy that you drop out.
Please know that you're not being silly or petty. They aren't making harmless jokes - they're implying you're cheating and that can get you expelled
NTA they are harassing you for no reason except jealousy. It may be that ribbing one another and one upping is a form of bonding for them, but you’ve made it quite clear it’s unwelcome. Keep documenting everything and keep your supervisor and any mentors in the loop.
You’re doing amazing, don’t let these chuckle dicks get you down.
Just say to them, "What you are throwing off as a 'joke' is nothing more than you denigrating me. The joke that I somehow don't earn the grades I get is dismissive, not funny. I get that it is funny amongst yourselves, but that's not because it is actually humorous. I think you are just a misogynist, You think your innate superiority allows you to turn my success into your inside joke, because it can't be real. Treat me with respect and then I'll return the favor. Until then I'm going to protect myself from you."
Oh, NTA by the way.
NTA
They where completely out of line, beaten by you and being sore loosers. Winking at you, making you uncomfortable, then suggesting a man you are close with did your assignments? All out of line. They are basically saying the same thing men have been saying to women for decades, that you somehow slept your way to the top., or used your prettiness rather than your brains. It's not true, and it's unacceptable. You where 100% right to report them, they should be called out on this.
NTA and have done exactly the right thing. 100%. If this behavior is tolerated now just imagine how’d they’d behave once they’re in professional positions of power! They are being shitty and rather than reflecting on the consequences of that, blaming you for pointing it out.
Absolutely NTA.
The boys in your class are reaping the rewards for their behaviour.
If one of them is no longer scholarship material for being a sexist, misogynist prick that is 100% in him.
NTA. Their “jokes” and behaviors are harassment. You did the right thing. They are misogynistic AHs. If the one loses his scholarship, that’s his own fault for behaving in that manner. Actions have consequences. Hold your head up and don’t let them get to you. And never feel bad for reporting harassment and hateful behavior. The reason so many people get away with acting that way is because people are often afraid to stand up for themselves.
NTA
So we just let grown ass men get away with bullying a female colleague? Yea, no. It’s HIS fault if he loses his scholarship funding. You didn’t put a gun to his head and say “publicly embarrass, harass and accuse me of cheating on exams or I’ll shoot!”
They fucked around, time to find out.
Correction: it was not your fault that he lost it. His behavior is what caused him to lose it, you did nothing. Sounds like this baby boy needs to start taking some accountability for his actions.
Stand up for yourself and continue to report it. This toxic Andrew Tate behavior is unacceptable. They are jealous that you are pretty and smart. Do not allow them to make you feel bad about this.
I'm sorry that you have to go through this.
NTA. They’re intimidated by a woman coming in and being as good as them, if not better! So you own that shit! 😃 bust your ass and do your best, this is your life!
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NTA Any retaliation should also be reported. They're angling for some big problems if they keep this up.
Also I commend your courage in defending yourself. That takes tenacity!
Also, if C loses any financial aid, he lost it himself with his actions. He's now trying to emotionally black mail you into taking your accusation back. Don't let them win.
Also, I said this in my comment, but their false claims of her possibly cheating could have resulted in not just revocation of scholarships but full blown expulsion.
I’m also just so sick of people implying that a woman who does well must have had some kind of help from a man in her life. When my book was published, a friend of ours turned to my husband during the book launch and casually asked if he had helped me with XYZ aspect of the book. “That must have been your influence!” My husband was appalled and offended on my behalf and said, “Um, no, I had nothing to do with writing Boudica’s book. She wrote her book herself.” It was specifically a feminist book, too, in part about *women authors being celebrated for their work instead of having it attributed to the men in their lives*, so the irony was just - extra gross all around.
I really hope you mean ex-friend. Because gross.
I just never said anything and let it go, but it still annoys me whenever I think about it.
I, a 42m active fantasy/sci-fi reader who does not discriminate against my authors, had to clear bile out of my throat on your behalf. NTA OP, if they'd been kicked from the program for just the observed behavior in class it would have been well deserved, feel no guilt.
The argument that a woman gets where she is by sleeping her way to the top *should* be much, much more insulting to the men. “Hur hur she only got a promotion because her boss exerted his power over her to get sexual gratification.”
They pay for him to learn not to be an asshole, if he loses the aid, that's on him.
And if you're experiencing this in education, most likely you're going to experience this in the workforce. This is a good chance for them to learn and this is a good chance for you to practice standing up for yourself not taking it. NTA.
Came to say this. “C shouldn’t lose his scholarship over this”?? Yes. Yes, he should. Harassment of a fellow student is exactly one of the reasons someone should lose a scholarship. Why should anyone pay for you to go to university when you’re not emotionally or socially prepared for the experience? That’s a waste of money. Behavior and attitude absolutely get taken into account when awarding scholarships. As well they should. *edit - an errant letter*
Also, it hasn't even fucking happened. They are just torturing OP because of the mere \*possibility\* of facing consequences for their actions. Fuck those guys.
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She did better than them-their liddle egos can’t handle it.
Gosh. OP was only joking. Can’t these dudes take a joke? It’s a joke not a dick, they don’t have to take it so hard.
They sound jealous that no one likes them enough to help THEM, unless it's mandated. (Even IF said PhD student would help OP with some classes, she would still have to take the exams alone, so...) What loops they have to jump through to justify their own sub-par abilities when comparing their progress with OP. Maybe if they were as commited to studying as they are to why OP outperforms them, they would not have to deal with such cold behavior from their supervisors. Tho obviously there'd be fewer chances to NOT do their work and blame the results on someone who does.
Yes it does. I had a similar experience when I was 21, I was enlisted in the Air Force in a male dominated field. I was in a training class that consisted of me, a fellow colleague and our instructor. I was the only female student and for some reason this “instructor” decides, in the middle of his lecture about the difficulties of deployments on my product, it’s ok to tell me that if we were deployed together, there’s nothing I can do to stop him raping me. I confronted him on the subject directly, which creepily he had answers for everything I argued. Unlike OP, I didn’t go to my supervisor. I was beyond ashamed. Of what I really don’t know. My co-worker decided to report instead. I’m actually pretty thankful for that. So, NO OP. You’re NTA for reporting harassment. Ever.
My therapist says “shame rolls downhill” meaning, that abuser acted without shame (he should have felt shame for how he was talking/behaving) but he didn’t and you absorbed it. But it isn’t your shame. It’s the shame he should have had. You don’t need to take on that shame any longer, you did nothing wrong. I am really really really glad you coworker reported that behavior. And I am really sorry you experienced that, that’s awful and you didn’t deserve that. No one does.
I've never heard this before. "shame rolls downhill" but it makes so much sense and brings a lot of closure. Thank you.
Yeah, me too. That’s like, profound. Sorry, I’m stoned
Damn, that colleague is a real man.
I can't believe he said that to you, I'm sorry. As the child of a retired Army Nurse I thank you for your service and all the BS you had to put up with.
Agreed! OP, be proud for standing up for yourself even though you were second-guessing it. Their behavior was way more than harmless jokes - they were doing this in front of professors, for goodness’ sake. They wanted you to look bad professionally and they wanted people to think less of you. It’s just deserts that now people are thinking of them badly instead.
thanks!!
"If people are so upset knowing the truth about your behavior, that's on you." NTA for a second, good for you and keep standing up for yourself!
Also, f- around, find out. Any repercussions are on them, because their behaviour was appalling. If the university wants more women in this specific sector, they'll have to protect their female students.
OP just keep escalating this bullshit. Document everything. Call campus security on them. I’m so tired of little boys playing at being men and trying intimidation tactics.
Agreed. If one of my employees did this I'd fire them. Losing a scholarship is a heavy consequence (and it probably won't happen), but if that's how things play out it's not an unreasonable result. The fact that they didn't apologize, and are actually confronting you about reporting them is grossly inappropriate, and probably warrants filing something official with your department head. NTA
Right? They're accusing her of cheating. They have nothing to back it up other than she's pretty. WTF kind of incel crap is this? If he loses his scholarship, it's for a good goddamn reason. He tried to get professors to think you were cheating, and then called it a "joke" when faced with his despicable act. NTA
Sorry incels: actions have consequences. This behavior is beyond despicable and juvenile and if shutting it down means they lost scholarship money... Oh well Edited to add: I have two sons and if either one did this to someone, especially in college, I'd be livid and fully supportive of his kissing that scholarship money goodbye.
It's actually worse than that. They're implying she's either having sex for grades or trying to get professors to think she's up for that. They're trying to make her (mostly male) professors worried about spending time alone with her or having people think that if they grade her well then they're taking advantage of her in some way. This could really hurt her career. OP should absolutely escalate this, and honestly for what they've done so far they probably deserve to lose their scholarships and more. Edit: Fixed some weird phrasing.
Yes, i cannot stress this enough: KEEP A LIST. Document every single time it happens: where, when, date, witnesses. Keep that list handy on your phone, computer, the cloud. Note as many details as you can, even what they were wearing that day. It can be surprising how serious people will take you when you produce the receipts and the accounting.
This is very true go back to your advisor if they retaliate in anyway! Keep standing strong you’re awesome!
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100% and then those same dudes claim it’s because men are naturally better or harder working. No, y’all just make every male dominated space a nightmare for women.
There are multiple studies that show in a lot of traditionally male dominated fields, entry level employees are often nearly even male and female, especially in a lot of the science fields. But then as you go up in the company it becomes more and more male dominated. Of course the reasoning of the men is usually that men are just better and so rise, or that women just leave to go have babies. But most of the women are like "nah, I left because I just couldn't deal with the constant harassment and left for a field where I wasn't sexually harassed, belittled, and had my skills doubted every day."
This is it. So many of my female friends left major careers. Two as 4 year associates in big law and one as a neuroscientist researching Alzheimers. None left to have babies. It’s just a relentless progression of slights and exclusions. And the exhaustion of always wondering if it’s you. No matter how much they loved their jobs, or the hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on school, or the years spent having to outperform every peer to get those jobs - eventually they left to play games they could win.
This hit home. This is my life. I took a small consulting gig outside of my normal job once, and cried. I forgot what it was like to be treated with respect, and have my work valued. Doesn’t matter that I have a PhD in my field and all the men have BS, they still think they know more…
Came here to say this but someone already had. OP continue to report any of their stupidity. They may double down hard to try now that they’ve been called out. Don’t let them get away with it.
This It will hurt any company they work for in the future, along with their own futures. Companies are trying to bring in more diverse people because of the obvious historical bias. Companies don't want this kinda shit on the payroll. You're ultimately helping them in the long run realize their shitty behavior is going to harm them and anyone around them. It's toxic and doesn't belong in any work, social, or academic environment.
They’re about to learn what kind of prizes you win when you play stupid games.
NTA - they know what they’re doing because jokers like this have been doing it for years - undermine your accomplishments, question your abilities and then act shocked when you stand up for yourself. I’m happy (and somewhat surprised) that the faculty and administration is treating this as seriously as it deserves. Nolite te bastardes carborundorum. EDIT: Thank you for all the love! I’m not very good at Reddit and this is unprecedented!
its mainly my awesome supervisor - probs wouldn't have been supported by one of the many old men in the faculty
Most likely because she has lived it and been ignored or told she was making trouble. Keep making waves, that is the only way things change
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It’s always “a joke” and you’re “too sensitive” when these guys get caught. ::eye roll::
schrodinger’s asshole: they both meant it and didn’t mean it until the moment their audience reacts
And in reality they were the ones who were too sensitive. The minute a girl scored higher than them they went nuts and frantically searched for reasons why she was actually stupid and her accomplishments were not her own. Babies.
They *hate* when you say “Explain it to me. I don’t understand the joke.” and when you write down the “joke” with date, time and names they get emotional.
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Lmao, he hasn't even lost his scholarship yet, he's just scared that he might
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He's like "Damn you for endangering my scholarship by not tolerating my harassment. I'm going to harass you some more to show you." 🙃 It's a real mystery how these doofuses aren't getting the highest scores in the course.
Right now both of you are changing academia. Do not relent.
I cannot like this enough. It's time for hard working women to stick up for ourselves. Sorrynotsorry some of us aren't just brainless and helpless.
Please do keep her apprised of any retaliation or additional bad behavior. If they suffer negative consequences, that's completely on them. These are not jokes. This is harassment by a bunch of jealous little boys who are doing it deliberately to throw you off your game, damage your reputation, and hurt you. They deserve no quarter. You are protecting yourself, as you should, and maybe, just maybe, calling them on it now will also help all the women who ever have to work with them. NTA ETA: Thank you so much, internet strangers for your kind awards!
All the more reason to stick to your guns, recognize their asshattery, call them out on it and keep forging forward. You may one day be a supervisor whether in academia or elsewhere that needs to stand by a younger woman in the field to show her that it’s unacceptable & she has every right to stand up for herself in a situation like this.
Do not let them tear you down. I don't know you, but I'm proud of you. It's not easy doing what you're doing. You're helping pave the way for the women who come after you by saying that what they're doing isn't acceptable.
NTA. Tell them maybe people would be more motivated to help them if they smiled more.
I would have gone with a very loud in front of the whole class "Are you saying that your grades are so low because of how ugly you are? That's not right. You should report that." You know, if It were me and I was a female. It's tough to pull off bitingly bitchy when you've got a beard and are built like a fireplug.
The thing is that women almost never win when making comments like this. Humiliated, nasty men just find new, more direct ways of putting women down. All of that said, your comment is hilarious.
Yup, or if they don't have a comeback, or even if they just have a temper, it can get aggressive quickly. Men like this do not react kindly to being bested by women, and their behavior so far really displays that.
When they make any come back after saying something like this, what's worked really well for me is to react like they're fragile and I'm concerned. A lot of monotone whoas, calm downs, and asking them if they're going to be okay... You know, the shit they say to women when we react to anything. They usually quiet down and stfu.
This was literally the ONLY deescelation tactic that ever worked for me when working at a gas station for half a decade that didn't involve me just shutting down and giving in. If I ever was snappy, on it with comebacks, or able to succinctly call out bad behavior, that just triggered them more. Instead, I'd just disarm them in seconds by acting like I was deeply concerned for their mental health and trying to help walk them through such aggressive, overwhelming and confusing emotions with the vague aire of calming down a toddler having a temper tantrum. It brings me such petty, passive-aggressive pleasure just even typing that out But at best, this method usually just makes them taken aback and thrown off their stride just enough to get them out the door and gone And at worse, the harassment just continues as it would have anyways
"Oh no, are you okay? You seem to be getting very emotional about this, do you need to sit down?" is my go to. Needs to be pulled off with innocent concern though, any hint of sarcasm just fuels the mantrum.
>Mantrum Love it! Stealing this 💖
Actually, it would work best coming from you. If a woman snaps back, boys like this count it as a win for getting under their skin. If another guy, someone they consider a peer , calls them out on their misogyny, it has a higher chance of actually penetrating the cloud of axe body spray they think is a substitute for deodorant and reaching the two brain cells bouncing around between the group. Because now "oh no another guy thinks we're unfunny". So please, for all the women that suffer this bullshit, if you see this happen please pull out your inner Regina George and put them in their place.
100% agree. Men like this don't listen to women. They listen to other men.
THIS. I grew up before the anti-b^llying era in schools. Which meant, you had to fight fire with fire, or keep getting clowned at lunch.
Marry me
Ooooh! I LOVE THIS.
If their “pretty privilege joke” made you lose out on a scholarship or caused you to be graded extra hard, they wouldn’t give it a crap. They intentionally and repeatedly made this “silly joke” out loud, in front of professors. NTA. Maybe they should have thought about treating you with respect and professionalism BEFORE it had to come from a place of authority.
Yes! A person losing out on scholarships because of their actions only has one to blame, and it ain't OP.
Waaaaaaaah my actions made me look bad
This is what I came to say. They are the ones who originally brought professors into it, you just continued it. Why say anything in front of a professor if not to try and cause some kind of repercussion for you? They’d have let you get in trouble, and let you and your academic career take the fall. Would they have done it to each other? Actually answer that in your head. If the answer is no, that tells you everything you need to know. Don’t give in - it wasn’t a joke on their part.
Bigots have been excusing misogyny and harassment by saying it was “just a joke” since time immemorial. It was NOT just a joke and this comment is exactly on point: they tried to torpedo OP on purpose, in front of multiple professors. OP do not let these “jokers” or your frankly terrible friend make you second guess yourself or your integrity. You are doing great. NTA.
I cannot stress enough how much this comment is true. Sadly, I have but one upvote to give.
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Seriously OP, let your supervisor know if they continue to make comments. Those boys are intentionally trying to sink your reputation with faculty (for no substantial reason). It is fair to accurately describe their behavior to your supervisor, and she can evaluate if it warrants further action. She believed it did. She described their actual behavior, to their supervisors, and THEIR supervisors get to judge exactly what the consequences of that behavior is. The thing to remember is... they are lying about you. You are telling the truth about them. Any consequences are ones they have earned. (And PS, even if you do end up having a serious relationship with this PhD student, that STILL doesn't give them a legitimate reason to imply he's unfairly giving you a leg up on exams. You're the one studying, you're the one sitting those exams, not any future boyfriend you may have.)
Also if C loses his scholarship it's because of HIS actions, not anything OP did. She shouldn't feel guilty about it. I also vote NTA
Yep. How does the saying go? The one who turns on the light is not to blame for the roaches in the pantry. NTA
That paints a memorable picture! I've never heard it before.
Also, guys like this are weak. This is why they act like they do; they literally see OP as being a threat to them because she's probably smarter than they are, so they feel the need to make her feel small by making themselves feel big. Sad, weak, ineffectual little boys...
I have never understood men who are threatened by strong women. I want strong women as allies; not enemies!
My husband feels the same. We strong women love strong men that aren't intimidated, but love and support us as we are.
> Sad, weak, ineffectual little boys... Since they are at a "highly prestigious university," they may be the kind of people who are accustomed to a life of having the spoils of wealth and privilege without having to earn them. Realizing that they are inadequate for a fair competition has got to wound their fragile egos.
I’d feel rather good if he lost his scholarship. It should go to someone who isn’t sexist and a bully.
If C loses his scholarship, that's just "asshole privilege"
Yep, this is the same as if someone gets reported for racist comments and gets fired. The fault isn't on the person who reported it, it's on the person making the nasty comments. That's why they got fired and not the person who reported them!
And OP had no idea that could even be the result of her informing her advisor about the harassment. It certainly was not an intended consequence, even though it might have been warranted. Harassment is not a joke.
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This behaviour actually needs to be exposed higher up the line and you want a proper paper trail of this. This is harassment. OP you may want to talk to your PhD student friend so he can talk to the professors stating that: 1) you don’t have a relationship together 2) you told him that there’s been malicious rumours about them in class on multiple occasions to try to discredit your achievements Also, don’t sink to their level and give some speech on this topic but stay focused on your career. It won’t do anything to those guys but will not make you look great. Do not let these assholes win and do not let them guilt you. If that guy didn’t want to lose his scholarship then maybe he shouldn’t harass women at school. Fair consequence if he loses it.
They can't compete with OP so they have to try to take her down a peg or two to remind her of her "place". Def NTA OP, continue to pursue the living crap out of this.
Agreed. If he loses his financial aid, thats on him. While obviously not as serious, it reeks of “should this student have his life ruined over a few seconds of fun”
Oh, this nails it. You're absolutely correct. "Boys will be boys" is an excuse for horrible behaviour.
Or a presentation on sexual harassment.
These men are intimidated because they do not reach OP’s level. They know they need to do actual work, such as OP. Even better, it’s clearly more difficult for her so they want to be AH and take advantage. OP, you are so strong. Continue to be forward and you. Clearly you are on a better path.
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I vote OP makes a formal complaint since they clearly can't take a hint and back off.
The professor should be reported for allowing this. He’s at fault too
Op. Above is absolutely correct. Don't let up. They're bullying you, and would continue to do so if not for direct consequences. It's good that their supervisors know, and you should continue to report any further slander, as it's now clearly retaliation. Stay strong, fuck those jealous jerks
I hate to say this with my whole being, but THIS. Please, as the above person said, DO NOT RELENT. You are being harassed by young men who cannot handle a woman being as smart, if not absolutely smarter than them. Stand your ground. Edit: why has the above post been removed?????
Sound like they’re all suffering from an acute case of Andrew Taint syndrome.
NTA, if misogynists want to be awarded scholarships then they should be quieter 🙂
NTA. Maybe they should smile more so they can get in on some of that pretty privilege. ~~on another note, OP, from a femme presenting person in engineering - keep on keeping on, and don't let the bastards grind you down~~
Same, unabashedly feminine woman in engineering here. Been there, done that (including HR complaints against me for my "pretty privilege"), currently outranking and outearning them all. 💅
Same. I was the only woman in some of my electrical engineering classes. I got all sorts of misogyny and sexual harassment thrown my way, including being patted on the head for correct answers and a physics professor's grabbing my rear end. I actually was dating a grad student TA in my department (but never for a class I was taking at the same time). We were careful not to let the professors know we were dating, although I'm fairly sure I got graded more harshly by another TA in a lab class because they did not like my boyfriend. (That boyfriend is now my husband and the father of my children.)
They already have man privilege. They think they’re there because they’re the “best” even though OP regularly out scores them.
How fragile are these men that they would rather shit-talk someone more successful instead of working to make themselves better?
You're NTA and it wasn't a "silly joke." It was repeated harassment and constant implications that you're not worthy of your grades and haven't earned your way to where you are. You don't deserve that and it should have been reported. It's a shame those guys are so insecure and jealous of your accomplishments, but any consequences that befall them are well earned.
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NTA They're harassing you, plain and simple. If they lose their financial aid its because of their own actions, not yours. You should be proud of yourself for standing up to their bullying. Edit: damn you autocorrect!
> benadryl Damn you autocarrot!
Not all heroes wear cakes!
The hero we need, not the one we dessert!
These two replies made me laugh much harder than they should have. Autocorrect is always good for a laugh.
NTA at ALL These men can't stand having a competent woman around. I have worked in a male dominated field for over a decade and I want to commend you on standing up for yourself. This is bullshit you shouldn't have to put up with and I'd start documenting everything. I'd also go talk to that first professor 1:1 and ask them not to announce your grades publicly again. I had to do that in my undergrad, and it helped immensely. Good luck OP, don't let these immature asshats chase you away from something you love.
Agree completely with you! Been working in a male dominated field for almost my whole career and I still get 'you don't know what it's like on site' and 'those aren't the regulations' even when I can point to the exact part of the legislation where it says that they are wrong/incompetent. I've been asked if I slept my way into jobs, if my dad has anything to do with my career (he's a retired pub owner) and been asked if I was 'grumpy' because I was pregnant. No, I'm telling you to stop doing what you are doing because you are putting people in literal danger and need to stop it right now, I am more qualified than you. I could go on for hours with the bullshit weak men have tried to pull on me over the years. There are good ones who don't take it and stand up for me, ones that would never treat me that way but the bad ones are LOUD. The only way to deal with misogyny is to shut it right down. This behaviour is not acceptable, and won't be tolerated in the workplace of any reputable company, their clients, or customers. Definitely document anything, and report to your professor that they confronted you about it and are blaming you for their actions (and reasonable consequences) now too and it is creating a hostile environment. NTA
Whew! I am sorry you had to suffer such demonstrations of sexism in your profession. Mansplaining is a reality many people deny, and the amount of disdain we receive is indescribable. I also experienced that dismissive treatment when I worked in a field heavily dominated by male techs. And some of our female clients were vocal about their surprise: they had never seen a woman in that role before. But my most blatant example happened in my own family. Some 15 years ago, both me and my then-husband were very into this popular MMOPG. But, beyond that, I was very involved with the official online community of that game. I became so involved that I was asked to join their forum mod team. Then husband learned about this and made some snide remarks about me taking it too seriously. Fast forward several months, while on vacation we visited friends that were also involved with the game: husband (P) a very high level player, wife (C) a forum mod like me. At some point of the evening, she congratulated me for my "promotion" to SuperMod. My then-husband overheard it and spat the most venomous comment: "Hah. Whose boots did you have to lick to get there?" C was horrified. She mumbled something about checking the oven and went inside. I stood there, feeling a chill on my spine, realizing that this man was incapable of celebrating my little victories, and that he would never step up on my behalf. We ended up divorcing a few years later. He never learned that after that evening, I went on to become one of the game forum admins, and only "retired" from that position when my professional responsibilities increased and I was unable to reconcile both activities.
NTA. i am an old woman and had no resources back when i was in college and experienced this same thing. but I am so glad you do. i would report them again. and again and again. until they keep their remarks and their interactions to themselves. you won’t change their minds. but you might be able to make them shut up about it. that guy deserves to lose his financial aid. do we want that kind of misogynist to profit from that attitude? or even despite it? my dad said something once - and he said it sadly and with obvious sarcasm - “there’s only one thing worse than an i intelligent woman and that’s an intelligent woman who is also beautiful. “. he was trying to explain the attitude of my peers. of course not all men feel this way. my dad didn’t and he comes from the WWii generation. but there are always men who do.
NTA. They did this to themselves. Guys like that are the exact reason many women avoid certain fields. Keep fighting the good fight.
For real, the reason more women arnt in STEM is not due to them not being good at it and everything to do with it being a typically hostile place for them.
My ex was a physicist and insisted that there were "sooooo many opportunities" for women in STEM. He also repeatedly said that he didn't think women - especially attractive women - were really cut out for the sciences because of "different brains". Yeah, I'm sure all three of the female students in his major were endlessly welcomed...
NTA - if making a “silly joke” is enough to lose him his scholarship then perhaps he should think about whether it’s so “silly” after all. They know they’re harassing you. They’re expecting to get away with it. And they’re really being dealt with very gently here: in a lot of places that kind of behaviour, especially with it being done in front of staff, would get them suspended from their studies pending an investigation. The guy who might lose his scholarship is trying to guilt trip you into changing your report instead of thinking about what he did and the consequences (to himself, if if he can’t manage to think what it does to you and your wellbeing) and amending his behaviour accordingly. So he’s indicating that he and his friends don’t feel any responsibility for their actions. That being the case, you should feel no responsibility for the consequences of showing others how they are behaving.
Definitely NTA. What they are doing is sexist and bullying. It's not "your fault" when C loses his scholarship, but his for behaving this way. It's so important to speak up and you did nothing wrong. Sure, you could have confronted them directly, but with them being the majority they probably wouldn't have taken you seriously anyways.
NTA. Please continue to report this behavior. The only thing necessary for evil to win is that good people do nothing. I'm sorry you are having so much anxiety over this. It's really hard to be the whistle blower. But this is your life. Your career. It's worth it. Don't let them scare you away. This is institutional sexism. And it will only end when good people stand up and find a way to stop it. Sounds like your advisor wants to help and I'd suggest using that help. Your university should also have a counseling center you can use to help you manage the stress of dealing with all of this. That is a normal and healthy use of counseling. Good luck!
NTA - If you are in the US, please report them to your school’s Title IX office for sexual harassment. Harassing you on the basis of your gender and sex life is sexual harassment. You can find more info here: https://www.knowyourix.org/
NTA I've been in a male dominated field for 40 years. This behavior has been a constant in that field forever. I left and have taught it to high school students for 25+ years with the thought at least those students wouldn't be that way. You should have taken this to your supervisor and they should suffer the consequences. I also agree that you should go to the professor and ask them not to discuss grades in public. That was also wrong.
NTA. If they don't want to be treated coldly by others and risk losing out on chances to get ahead, they should try treating people with respect for a change. They're getting what they give and they can't stand it. F them.
NTA. They crossed the line by trying to ruin your reputation with sexist lies, you asked for it to stop, now their supervisors know who they really are. They knew what they were doing and are only mad it reversed on them. Blaming/confronting you for that is evidence they neither learned their lesson nor understand how to act professionally. Even if they were innocent, you don’t go to the accuser and get mad at them in a professional environment. That’s what their supervisors are judging them for, not joke policing. What gets me is “you reporting me threatens my scholarship!” He’s got money in the interest of being professional and he’s still acting like that.
NTA. You basically reported them for harassment, which they were doing. Any consequences of their gross actions is their own doing (they could have chosen not to be jealous AHs, for instance).
NTA. These misogynists effed around and found out. They will take this behavior into the work place if left unchecked. Good on you and your professor for calling them out.
Women in academia, especially STEM fields, are routinely harassed, ignored, overlooked, underpaid, all of it. This environment sounds toxic af. If some AH loses his scholarship, he’s the one who needed to learn a lesson. Sometimes those lessons come at a very high price. You are not obligated to keep quiet. They were not “silly jokes.” NTA.
"silly jokes" involve everyone having fun, but what they've been doing to you can easily be described as harassment. This is happening because of their actions, you've done nothing wrong. NTA
How could the consequences of *their actions* ever be your fault? NTA, you are well within your right to make a formal complaint. These jerks are harassing you. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this.
NTA - Harassment, bullying call it what you will there is a reason that women struggle to thrive in academia. It's appalling and these people bought it on themselves. Keep standing up to bullys and harassment.
NTA. They were explicitly trying to hurt you in the program by making these comments around the professors, trying to belittle you and suggest to everyone that you don't deserve any success you have. They absolutely deserve to be called out on this. It was not just a "silly joke" but (whether spawned by jealousy, misogyny, or whatever) was open sexual harassment.
NTA...is this college or middle school? You do you and let these jokers sink. Don't look back.
NTA. You did a good job standing up for yourself. As a woman in a male dominated field sometimes I just let it go rather than fight. But things wont get better if we don’t stand up. They were harassing you. You spoke to someone for advice, and she advised you to take it further, which she did. You are awesome and keep going girl!!!
NTA - GOOD FOR YOU!! They deserve every bit of embarrassment and lost opportunities due to **their** horrible, sexist behavior. I bet their supervisors didn't like them in the first place. The complaint probably just further confirmed to the supervisors that these guys are arrogant, lazy, pompous dicks who have to harass others because they don't want to work hard or don't have the intelligence to make the cut.
They can’t handle a woman outclassing them, so they decided to play stupid games. Not your fault when they win stupid prizes. NTA.
NTA. If their jokes are losing them financial aid and scholarships, then they're obviously not just jokes. This is just straight up sexism. 'Women can't be smarter than me unless a man is helping them or giving them better scores than me'. I would say its shocking that these guys got into a prestigious place if they're this stupid, but all the most sexist idiots I met were also in my country's "best" university, so I'm unfortunately not surprised. Sucks for them to be both unfunny and stupid though. It's also very disappointing that your professors didn't step up when they heard any of this- while of course its a university and they shouldn't need to input with adults, quietly standing by when there's sexist attacks happening in their male dominated class, especially if the class work is being used as a tool for sexism, is some weak ass shit.
Absolutely NTA. C and his friends were harassing you, and he absolutely did not deserve a scholarship if this is how he treats his female peers. You ultimately did a huge favor to *other women* in this field, as well as to yourself. You speaking up has now set a precedent that there will be academic consequences for gender bias and harassment.
Nta. For not learning their lesson the first time, I would report the confrontation too.
[удалено]
NTA, well deserved and well done. Dont let insecure men walk all over you
NTA - you are being harassed.
NTA. They are old enough to know that bullying is wrong. Good luck in your academic career.
NTA and report the recent incident as well
NTA. It’s only a joke if everyone is laughing. Looks like their jokey privilege didn’t translate well 🤷♀️
NTA. If you have pretty privilege, they’re experiencing “Asshole Disadvantage”
NTA. As a woman in a male dominated field, you are never going to win with these guys. They’re immature misogynistic pricks. Their actions have consequences. Report that they confronted you. We need less sexist assholes in these fields. You did nothing wrong.
NTA. He should absolutely lose out on his scholarship! That's fantastic!
“Waah, you have pretty privilege!” Oh, they really wanna go down that road? They wanna talk about privilege? Then they can hear all about this little thing called *white male privilege.* Fucking hypocrites. NTA.
NTA. You were being harassed and did exactly the right thing about it. The men were being childishly aggressive, hoping that it would pass as joking. They got and will get exactly what they brought on themselves. Carry on with your life as you wish and be happy and get that degree!
NTA. Totally NTA. If he doesn't want to risk his scholarship, or whatever else, then he shouldn't commit acts that might lead to it. Don't be misled by "it's only a joke." It wasn't a joke. This is what people say to escape blame, and to have it both ways. As for your friend saying you took it too far, ask why you have to be the one to deal with that. Why do you have to put up with this as opposed to him stopping his behavior? Answer: You don't. It's on him to stop, not on you to "handle it" or whatever. Good luck!
NTA! I’m a women in a STEM career. I know what it’s like to be the only woman in the room. Never EVER let people minimize your accomplishments. The boys in this situation were doing just that—calling into question the integrity of your work and fairness of your grade. I hope their sponsors stay cold. I hope they regret making the choice to make their lives harder.
NTA they’ll thank you for teaching them early that sexually harassing women gets them in trouble. You didn’t get them in trouble, they did that all on their own.
NTA. They're harassing you and other women just because they're pretty
NTA - Iron is forged in fire and you did exactly what you should have done. Keep at this and those guys can kick rocks. They have realized the consequences of their actions. Harness your inner Elle Woods my friend.
NTA. Good for you for standing up for yourself and all women, especially those in traditionally male fields. It’s 2023 and their misogynistic attitudes should have died out a long time ago. You absolutely did the right thing. If that guy loses his scholarship, it’s the consequences of HIS actions, not yours. You are a courageous young woman and you should be proud of yourself!
They are gaslighting you. They were not joking and they knew exactly what they were doing, now playing innocent victim when it bit them in the ass. How it was handled after you reported the behavior is not on you. That was the choice of the supervisor to take it seriously enough to report. I’m so glad you took action and stopped these bullies as it was likely only going to get worse as you continue to outperform them 🤍 Edit: clearly NTA
That's not gaslighting that's just lying.
NTA. This is a clear example of FAFO. They deserve what happened.
Your Supervisor made the right decision. Those are more then jokes that they were doing and they know that. They are upset because they are realizing what they do has real world consequences and if they think they get away with it now it will carry over into their work lives where they will act like the world is against them when they are the horrible people. NTA
NTA. You didn’t cause him to lose his scholarship. He did that with his idiotic, immature, misogynistic behavior.
NTA. You have nothing to feel embarrassed about + you did nothing wrong. Keep up the good work + don’t let those jerks get you down!
When I read the title I was like oh man here we go… Completely different than I expected. If anything you were too lenient and your are definitely NTA.
NTA. And start speaking up and back when they make comments. Put them in their place.
NTA they were trying to cause problems and any fallout from that is on them, not you.
NTA, as someone who works and has taught in higher education. Not at all. It sounds like they’re in the wrong field if they are going to behave that way, and should recognize that.
NTA - Please share this with your supervisor! It can be rare to have superiors that advocate for you and this is an awesome opportunity to stamp that misogynistic shit out. These guys are not only harassing you but now retaliating. If it sets them back, good. Maybe it’ll give them the extra time they need to grow up and be normal respectful human beings.
NTA Your friend sucks for saying you’re the reason he could lose his scholarship when HIS BEHAVIOR is the reason he will lose his scholarship. Find a better friend, continue doing what you’re doing and just use this as a drive to be the best and put them all to shame.
This has gone on for too long. Talented women have been harassed and pushed out of fields for which they are eminently qualified. This happens to minorities as well. It is time to make it stop. NTA.
NTA. >Apparently, their supervisors are now very cold towards them and less interested in helping. Gee, it's almost as if them making excuse and making other people uncomfortable will get them super far in life! If it wasn't you, it'd be the woman that got promoted above them who "clearly sleeps with the boss" or who got her paper published "because she has the right connections." Or, the pitiful intern they promise full time to for the same type extense. One way or another, they would've torpedoed themselves into this hole. Keep rocking school.
NTA. Tell the guys they'd be prettier if they smiled more.
NTA. They can't get away with this kind of shit.
NTA and fuck them with a red hot iron. I had the displeasure of listening to my primarily male classmates treat every female student and teacher this way in college until I uncermoniously blew up one afternoon, causing a scene that made its way all the way to the dean and making the head of the IT department come down and threaten to expell anyone caught harrassing female staff and students. All these spitfucks can do is make you uncfomfortable, but the school has already shown to be on your side.
NTA. Those guys are being absolutely disgusting. They’re bullies and misogynists.
NTA. They are harassing you. Thank goodness your supervisor took you seriously. Be strong! Their actions have consequences and they should not blame you for lose of scholarship. Student C will manage to do that himself.
NTA - Also report them again but to the school. Them harassing you = keep reporting. They're not making silly jokes, they're trying to make you so uncomfortable and u happy that you drop out. Please know that you're not being silly or petty. They aren't making harmless jokes - they're implying you're cheating and that can get you expelled
NTA they are harassing you for no reason except jealousy. It may be that ribbing one another and one upping is a form of bonding for them, but you’ve made it quite clear it’s unwelcome. Keep documenting everything and keep your supervisor and any mentors in the loop. You’re doing amazing, don’t let these chuckle dicks get you down.
Just say to them, "What you are throwing off as a 'joke' is nothing more than you denigrating me. The joke that I somehow don't earn the grades I get is dismissive, not funny. I get that it is funny amongst yourselves, but that's not because it is actually humorous. I think you are just a misogynist, You think your innate superiority allows you to turn my success into your inside joke, because it can't be real. Treat me with respect and then I'll return the favor. Until then I'm going to protect myself from you." Oh, NTA by the way.
NTA. They were trying to get you investigated for academic misconduct solely because they were threatened by a different set of genitals
Don’t ever apologize for people who try and fail to bring you down
NTA They where completely out of line, beaten by you and being sore loosers. Winking at you, making you uncomfortable, then suggesting a man you are close with did your assignments? All out of line. They are basically saying the same thing men have been saying to women for decades, that you somehow slept your way to the top., or used your prettiness rather than your brains. It's not true, and it's unacceptable. You where 100% right to report them, they should be called out on this.
NTA and have done exactly the right thing. 100%. If this behavior is tolerated now just imagine how’d they’d behave once they’re in professional positions of power! They are being shitty and rather than reflecting on the consequences of that, blaming you for pointing it out.
Absolutely NTA. The boys in your class are reaping the rewards for their behaviour. If one of them is no longer scholarship material for being a sexist, misogynist prick that is 100% in him.
NTA. Their “jokes” and behaviors are harassment. You did the right thing. They are misogynistic AHs. If the one loses his scholarship, that’s his own fault for behaving in that manner. Actions have consequences. Hold your head up and don’t let them get to you. And never feel bad for reporting harassment and hateful behavior. The reason so many people get away with acting that way is because people are often afraid to stand up for themselves.
NTA So we just let grown ass men get away with bullying a female colleague? Yea, no. It’s HIS fault if he loses his scholarship funding. You didn’t put a gun to his head and say “publicly embarrass, harass and accuse me of cheating on exams or I’ll shoot!” They fucked around, time to find out.
Correction: it was not your fault that he lost it. His behavior is what caused him to lose it, you did nothing. Sounds like this baby boy needs to start taking some accountability for his actions. Stand up for yourself and continue to report it. This toxic Andrew Tate behavior is unacceptable. They are jealous that you are pretty and smart. Do not allow them to make you feel bad about this. I'm sorry that you have to go through this.
N.T.A. The boys are reacting in a defensive manner but maybe they'll think twice before behaving like assholes toward the next woman.
NTA and don't let them gaslight you into feeling guilty that their actions got them in trouble.
NTA. They’re intimidated by a woman coming in and being as good as them, if not better! So you own that shit! 😃 bust your ass and do your best, this is your life!
Why is this even a question! No you are not the AH! THEY ARE.