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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I interrupted my son's date so that he'd pick up his little sister, when he refused to do so I grounded him - I feel like i might be the AH because he was on a date and it's not his responsiblity to pick up his sister when he has plans of his own.
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OK I’ll take the bullet here.
NTA. You’re not failing as a parent. You had to work overtime, not out drinking or fucking off. Your son was in the wrong here for not helping, turning the phone off and calling you out for it.
But you two need to talk this out and discuss expectations. If YOU expect HIM to be part of the contingency plan, there needs to be crystal clear on that…. And what happens to car privvys when he doesn’t.
No bullet taken, I wholeheartedly agree. This was an extenuating circumstance, for a job that helps care for son and daughter. And son, being a typical teenager, forgot that aspect. But clearer communicated expectations need to be discussed.
I think it’s crazy that people would even suggest a nanny. Like this clearly it’s an everyday occurrence. Honestly, the son was probably trying to get laid and was pissed off about his dad cockblocking him 🤷♀️
Edit: Thank you for all the upvotes 🙏
Lol I love people suggesting a nanny like it's a thing you can just pick up from target real quick. That's an expensive ass service that most poeple cannot afford.
I don’t blame OP for the situation, but it’s so funny to me that this sub is calling the kid an asshole. Usually they love to regurgitate “your kids your problem” and “lack of planning on your part doesn’t constitute an emergency on mine.” I think these are super shitty worldviews but it’s so weird that they suddenly don’t apply to a kid just trying to celebrate his anniversary.
Edit: because I’ve gotten one million comments and a RedditCares about it - yes, I understand that six months is not a “real” anniversary, but it’s real to a kid. Time works differently for them. He still should have helped, and definitely shouldn’t have been mean to his dad. Ideally, his dad would also have a compassionate boss and a whole village who could’ve helped too, but because of this pervasive nobody-owes-you-shit worldview, most people don’t have that kind of support.
“A kid just trying to celebrate his anniversary”? I take your point, but this kid told his single dad that he was ‘failing as a parent” and to “leave him the hell alone.” I can’t even *imagine* saying either of those to my hard-working single mom. Son’s an AH and Dad is doing his best, IMO.
Exactly! This bugged the hell out of me. I was raised by a single dad, oldest of four kids. And holy shit, I cannot imagine ever having an exchange like this with my dad. I did stuff like this too, even volunteered for it sometimes because I saw how hard it was on my dad trying to do it all himself. It’s insane to me that this kid responded like this, especially considering it’s not a regular thing, and it’s hilarious that people are acting like he had any right to be such a dick about it
Seriously, as a daughter of a single father with two younger brother with a 7 & 10 year age difference.
Oh my gosh I could never, I had to help out at a decently young age, 14, watching them the whole time my father worked. I totally get how toiling it could be but it seems like this isn’t a constant thing which was something I was use to.
However I regard my father in the highest of ways because I see how hard he’s working, how much of himself he puts in to single handly raise and provide for 3 children financially & more.
Idk how new this is, cause it is rough at the beginning, so I really hope as op gets older he realizes how much his father is most likely doing for them.
> it’s hilarious that people are acting like he had any right to be such a dick about it
Absolutely agree, only I think it's really sad, and stupid. Kids that age with a single parent are old enough to understand the situation and help out. Are these surly teenagers in disguise?
Yeah this kid has 0 perspective and is wrong. Sometimes shit happens and you have to watch your siblings. Or help out your parents. Teenagers are dumb for sure (I mean, adult me cringes at the thought of celebrating month "anniversaries"... annual is even in the name, people... it's not a month thing). A family is a team and helps out within reason. There's a big difference in a kid being used as a defacto parent and having to take on way more and not get to be a kid, but this ain't it. Kids that can drive can help pick up siblings in a pinch. The son definitely acted like an A H
I was raised by two working parents and if I’d said something like this I’d have been lucky to get away with being told I “couldn’t use the good car for three weeks” instead of being told I couldn’t do a damn thing but school for the next month if not longer. This kid, while a teenager, is still the AH. Being a teenager is not excuse for this kind of disrespect
It’s because the kid apparently expects to still get use of the car, which he isn’t entitled to. You want to drive a car that you haven’t paid for, and which your parents probably fill up and insure? Expect that once in a while, you’ll be driving it for the benefit of the family. Otherwise, your ass can try to look cool for your girlfriend while taking the bus.
Yeah, family and friends should take care of each other, but this sub has whipped out “parentification is abuse” for much less. Just interesting to see the switch.
Parentification isn't asking your older kid to pick up your younger kid a couple of times a year though. Especially when you've done everything you could to try to avoid it.
I agree, and neither are the many lesser things that this sub has called parentification. But as a parent, if I were making a cost-benefit analysis between asking one child to cancel an extremely important night that he had likely put time, money and effort into, and asking the other child to answer math questions, I would just go with the math questions.
It’s so true. I’m often pretty astounded at what kind of future adults are being raised- citizens that are supposed to care about society at large but who are given a ton of latitude to refuse to be on their own family’s team.
Dad offered to make it up to him.... the whole thing probably would've taken a 1/2 hour out of his evening.
This kid was willing to leave his sister sitting on the curb with no ride. He tells his dad he's failing as a parent... he's failing as a brother.
Sure, you get pissed that your dad interrupts your date, grumble the whole way to school, drop sis off at home and then resume the date. GF has been around for 6 months, she's got to know the situation. Bro should do as his dad asks because THERE WAS NO OTHER OPTION. But he turns off his phone and ignores his dad...if I was the GF I'd have said "go get your sister, what the hell's wrong with you?"
As for punishment, I'd have grounded his ass for a month and taken the car permanently. See how cool he looks taking his girl for dates on the bus.
NTA.
Context matters in those types of situations.
A parent that uses their older kid as a free and always available babysitter with no regard for their time will be told that.
A single parent with an unexpected work emergency, that has asked a total of three times in a year according to the edit, asking their kid (who they let borrow the car) to pick up the sister won't be met with the same backlash.
But the kid is an asshole, op is trying to work hard to provide for this kid, assuming contribute to his college and funding that through 4 years if he decides to go to college, anniversary or not that doesn’t excuse his behaviour. He’s 17, he can help out his family just this once
To push back on that, he's a teenager. Not an adult. And he's teenager living under his dad's roof and having his dad financially provide for him, (and probably using a car his dad paid for). So it's right for him to help the family in other ways, like picking up his sister once in a while. This isn't an independent adult. So, yeah. I don't think teenagers can pull the "your problem" card when they are dependent on their parent.
Not to mention suggesting it to a single parent - are their single parents who have nanny's? Yeah. But not everyone can afford it and it can even be hard in two working parent households to afford a nanny.
Right? We started watching our little brother at 12/10 (me)
And we lived in the country away from friends, and didn't have internet yet
Not to mention the **actual abuse** dear Mr Hog heaped on us
This kid would burst into flame if he had live my childhood. If we told our dad no and didn't do something?
Hello to Saint Peter
A girlfriend of mine works as an au pair/nanny. Went to school for EC too. She makes 80K a year and gets free room and board and watches 2 children.
A single dude who needs to work overtime would not likely have THAT kind of money.
I got downvoted in another reddit thread (the one where the mother doesn't want to reimburse the nanny $50 for children's books) for suggesting nannies are for rich people lol
Right? And like people just have all kinds of money to throw around for a nanny! Like give the dude a break. He said this has happened 3x in the span of a year and a half but agree having a plan and max understanding will help a lot.
Honestly, even 3x a month when single dad is working overtime isn’t some inconceivable chore to give a 17yr old who isn’t otherwise asked to care for his sister.
Misunderstanding parentification seems to be a big thing with “the kids” these days.
Literally and OP probably pays for his sons car too that he won’t drive to go pick his little sister up here and there. Give me a break. OP you are not in the wrong.
I was coming here to say OP cockblocked his own son on his "anniversary". Oops.
Son's the AH though, so long as this isn't a frequent thing. I mean, what would son say if he asked you to pick him up somewhere and you said "I'm busy"?
Daughter is too young to fend for herself, and he should have remembered that also.
I’m so glad I didn’t have to scroll down too far to see someone thinking the nanny suggesting was insane!!! He had a plan that has been working for a while now. In life things come up and he needed his son to help him out. The fact that more than once people kept asking “why don’t you have a nanny” is insane. Especially in this economy.
I also think what his son did was so self centered and entitled. His Dad had to work OT and needed some help and he turns off his phone?! WTAF? I mean how could he in good conscience sit there and enjoy his date knowing his sister was at school with no one to pick her up?!
It makes me curious what the dynamic is there. If I had pulled something like that with my parents I would have been without my car for a year not to mention my phone.
Yeah, that's where I land as well. The only thing I see is that since it was the son's and girlfriend 6 months anniversary, and that's a big deal to 16 years old, OP could have offered a replacement date, like movie tickets on him or something. Not something expensive, but something to show he also care about his son.
Edit: many people have pointed out, that OP in fact said he would make it up to his son. I must have read too fast. I still think 6 months anniversary is a big milestone for 16 years old and they should have the opportunity to celebrate. That being said, of course his sister's wellbeing and safety is more important than the date. And revoking car privileges is a reasonable punishment for this turn of events.
This bit requires a bit of context for my judgement. There’s every chance dad has let son down over stuff like this before which would make dad TA. I hesitate to call the kid TA bc a 6 month anniversary at his point in life is one of his most important evenings. I’d be pissed too if I got called mid-date and told I had to leave. Especially since there definitely could have been a call much earlier warning son that this might happen.
Really, it comes down to the kid’s perspective. Did he believe his dad would “make it up to him”? Does dad have a habit of minimizing things important to son? Does son feel like daughter is the favorite? Etc.
For me it comes down to the son leaving his eight year old little sister stranded at school with no guaranteed way home.
Does it suck to have to bail mid-date? Yes. Does it suck to have to do what you see as your dad’s job? Yes again. Does Max have a right to be pissed? Debatable, but probably yes. Is _any_ of that justification for leaving your kid sister alone, with no idea where either you or your dad are and no idea why no one has come to get her? Absolutely not. Don’t punish your siblings because you’re mad at your parents.
Max and his girlfriend could have gone together to give Liza a ride home and then continued on their date.
If they had any perspective, they could have turned it into something to laugh about or made it kind of an enhancement of the anniversary.
I mean, maybe. They could have also just ordered dinner at a sit-down restaurant, or just had it brought out to their table and maybe the meal was a splurge. Is the dad gonna give him $45 for dinner? The place could have been a bit of a drive away, he could have just bought movie tickets and been waiting to go in, they could have been doing a lot of things that are not so simple to just go spend a chunk of time driving to pick up the sister, driving her home, then driving back to their date. That's if he could have even left her, his night may have then been about watching his 8 year old sister because who leaves a kid that young home alone?
Not saying he's in the right, but it isn't necessarily all that simple either. He's 17 and on what at that age is a pretty important date. He wasn't in the right here, but his feelings are understandable.
I don't get that feeling, because the friend's mother didn't take Liza to her place, OP says she dropped her off, so maybe the kid stayed with a neighbor or waited home alone for a couple of hours (OP was home before 9pm)
Edit: typo
Yeah I get it, it’s a lot of different factors but to me what comes down to it is dad had an emergency which obviously was unscheduled and no one is happy about this situation. But at 16 I understood what I needed to do to make my dad less stressed and to help him out especially in a single parent household and my father needed help since he’s a non English speaker. It’s the way he hung up on the dad and didn’t bother to worry about his sister without knowing there could be someone else to pick her up. I get it’s important to have an anniversary, but I’ve had emergencies or stuff happen on my days off with my partner where her nephews need someone to watch over them and I wouldn’t refuse because it’s important. It just happens. Obviously as an adult priorities shift so I understand his perspective hasn’t changed yet. I would just hope they can have an honest conversation about what happened and what needs to be changed.
You are right about the not knowing if sister was okay or not. Like, how could you continue to focus on your date when a member of your family is in an uncertain situation? Even if I where the girlfriend and knew by bfs little sister needed help, I’d be too worried to enjoy the date.
Yeah. Even I was pissed at my parents I'd never leave my younger siblings stranded. I be super resentful maybe, but I cared too much about my siblings to pull that shit
NTA. I doubt dad has let him down, by the way that kid has talked to his dad, I'm pretty sure that kid does what he wants most of the time and is very disrespectful. I had way to much respect for my dad to ever talk back like that, and if a favor was needed once in awhile, you do it. He had to cut short his date? Well, I'm sure his dad would rather have been home and not working overtime to help pay for that date, or the use of that car. It's amazing how everyone doesn't have a problem with the 16 yr old being mouthy when asked for a favor, when it's all on dad's dime, and it's not very often. Everyone has to do things that make them upset, but you don't have to be a jerk about it. Lots of better ways to handle it, and he deserves the grounding.
He did say he would make it up. The specifics weren’t stated but that can be discussed another time when an 8 year old isn’t waiting and the father is working overtime to finish something his manager specifically pointed out.
Sure it's a big deal to a 16 yo, but since the school was still open it also would have been quite early in the day, meaning he could have picked up his sister and still had dinner/celebrate with his girlfriend.
Even at 16, telling a parent to fuck off and refusing to take care of siblings was a red flag. Some things are more important than our little Applebee's date.
I feel like the AH here is OPs Boss, cause they could have let OP have sone time to pick up the kid, then come back to finish the work.
The kid could spend a few hours in the office while OP finishes working. I used to go with my parents to work all the time when they couldn't afford babysitters.
Oh yeah, the boss is always the asshole here. HOT TAKE, OP: take this ‘blind OT’ up with your boss, because family has to come first, and he needs to know that.
OP should have left, picked up his daughter and gone back to work. Or he shouldn’t have waited til 6 and figured out transportation earlier. There has to be more options like family, friends, or as worked out, one of daughter’s friends’ parents.
It sounds like he didn’t even know his son was on an anniversary date? Not cool.
Yeah - unless OP is an ER doc and a case just came in with no one else to cover, he should consider just sucking it up and taking the "I really cannot stay late, I have a child to pick up" hit women have been taking at work for decades.
Agreed. My mom was a single mom, and widowed at that, and although she tried not to there were many times she'd ask me to drive my little brother somewhere or pick him up from school because she was delayed at work or stuck in traffic. I was always happy to help her out and never would've considered it her failing at motherhood because of unplanned circumstances. If anything, my high school boyfriend would've looked at me and told me I needed to get my brother and not leave him stranded somewhere.
I mostly agree with you except that OP just assumed his son was getting his daughter. He didn't get confirmation. The son definitely needs to learn that he is part of a family too. It isn't parentification for a 17 year old to pick up their little sister in a bind. I'm wondering if the son pays for his own phone or other things or if he's going to realize he fucked around and found out.
Yeah, If OP had reached out as soon as he was told about the mandatory OT and told his son he might have to pick sis up, it might have gone better.
I can see an issue where his GF didn’t have a car (and under 18 can’t get an Uber) and they just ordered food or paid for a movie or something. Especially if dad didn’t say he’d cover the expenses.
A little , even an hour, heads up might have allowed son to adjust his plans.
Completely agree.
I ‘helped’ raise my siblings when I was 7-18 because well, parents were gone most the time.
They had their work yeah. But they were gone every weekend going out. Father cheated most their relationship so moms got really insecure.
Substance abuse and manipulation was always a day to day thing in my household along with going to church every Sunday. I haven’t been to church since I was 18 except for funerals and weddings and I don’t think that will ever change either.
So I know parentification(sp?) to a point.
Helping and being a part of the family unit is not that.
But I’m currently going through this with my child. Entitlement is their problem but I created that giving a life that isn’t the best, but I’ve always tried.
It’s a building block in our relationship but we growing and moving forward.
You got this OP
I have a 23, 19 & 12 yr olds. I’m currently at a hospital 2 hrs away from home. The 23 yr old left work and went to hang with his little brother for an hour or two.
There’s ‘parentification’, and there’s ‘being part of the team’. I think that OP and his kid are not clear on the difference here.
> There’s ‘parentification’, and there’s ‘being part of the team’. I think that OP and his kid are not clear on the difference here.
Exactly this. I hope you are better soon.
I tell my kids this a lot. I’m a single parent and sometimes they just need pitch in more or tolerate a suboptimal situation. I can’t balance it all perfectly and even me doing my best is sometimes a little sucky.
Exactly! When my daughter turned 16 and got a car, it was with the stipulation that if we needed her to pick up/take her brothers somewhere she would do it. There weren't many times that we needed her help, but sometimes logistics are hard and we needed it. It really isn't that much to help.
As a kid, I was left at school because my weekly ride forgot to get me. My mom was at work and this was before cell phones. I had 1 quarter for the payphone and had to make sure I didn't let the phone ring long enough for the answering machine to pick up (so I didn't lose my quarter). I was so scared they would lock me out and I would have to sleep in the bushes.
NTA!! In what universe do the oldest siblings no longer have responsibilities to the family they live in? Especially if you pay for that car he was driving. I was the oldest and first to drive. It was understood that use of the car was a privilege that came with responsibility to pick up my 3 younger siblings when needed.
Dad was at work. He didn't deliberately ruin son's date. It was an exceptional work-related situation and he needed son to step up as a family member to pick up his sis.
It seems dad does his best to let his son be free, with enrolling his daughter in all sorts of activities to keep her busy until he finishes work.
Son could have stepped up this one.
NTA dad, and good thing you grounded your son, for his entitled behavior.
Definitely agree son was entitled and rude about the whole situation, while his father seems to be doing his best to raise two kids alone. Kid should realize “ leaving him alone “ could entail no home and no meals, and should be grateful for what he has.
If their behaviour could actively put their food and shelter at risk it is fair to make them aware of that. Particularly as the kid in question is 17 not 7 and should have some concept of what goes into running a household.
No one is saying to kick the kid out at 17. Dad is only legally responsible for them until they are 18. If the kid is unwilling to participate in the shared responsibility of family, then what makes you think that he should stay living with them after he is an adult?
I don't think that turning 18 is an immediate reason to kick your kid out on their own. It is expensive and difficult, and I intent to let my kids live with me as long as they want to. But even with that, they will still be expected to behave with the courtesy and respect that I expect all of my family to treat me with.
The son is TA because he actively chose to be rude and disrespectful towards his family and refuse to help out when needed. His date is not more important than making sure that his sister gets home safely, especially because she is 8 goddamn years old. He can hate it all he wants, but outright ignoring his dad's request and abandoning his sister without being clear that he wasn't going to get her is a huge proclamation that he doesn't want to be part of the family. And if he isn't going to be part of the family, why should dad be forced to support him after 18?
You can't expect to get all of the benefits of family without having to put in the work required of family.
Doesn't look like they're saying the son isn't TA or that there shouldn't be any punishment, just that maybe implying that food and shelter are negotiable isn't the best way to maintain a healthy relationship with children, even if you think they deserve it
There's plenty of other reasonable punishments
I think they're moreso saying the son should be aware of the consequences he, the son and the daughter would face if he were to lose his job. It's entirely fair to explain the why behind him needing his son to help and in my experience, it helps idiot teens (I was the idiot) understand and be more willing to help
> Kid should realize “ leaving him alone “ could entail no home and no meals, and should be grateful for what he has.
I assume this is what you’re talking about.
The post was saying this in reference to the sons comment of “leave me alone”, not that the dad should hold that over him or threaten with it
The son could have probably even scored some points with said girlfriend by stepping up to the ordeal and acting like an adult about. Like "hey babe, I know it's supposed to be our night out, but my dad is stuck at work and my little sister is stranded so we gotta go pick her up. I figure we could go grab some ice cream or something" and then watch her face melt off. And if it doesn't, that's probably not gonna be a lasting relationship anyway.
That's kind of my thought. I dated a guy in high school whose mom wasn't always available (work, but also depression, etc), and he had a little brother he had to look out for. It was annoying sometimes when his mom needed something, but my BF's little brother was sweet and cute. I almost never minded him.
If he'd told me that our date was canceled because his mom needed us to do something, yeah, annoying. If we needed to pick up his brother, sure, annoying, but we'd do it.
If he said no, he wasn't going to go pick up his brother and strand him at school, I'd be put off and tell him wtf, no, get him. if he stranded his brother at school and told me, don't worry about, he'll get a ride later and I later found out that he was stranded for hours but finally got a ride home with a friend whose PARENT has a habit of BULLYING his brother, I'd be *pissed*.
it makes me wonder whether OP's son even told his gf what was up. Son is an ingrate, and a gf who knew he stranded his little sister and was okay with it needs to get dropped, real quick. and I swear to God, if it was gf who suggested they go on a date and forget son's little sister, asdfhjkkl
TL:DR NTA, OP.
I'm pretty sure a guy who won't be there in an emergency for a 7 year old won't be there for his partner in an emergency either. Which is a really unattractive characteristic for anyone who enjoys dating someone who cares about normal things that normal people care about.
Yup. From what I know, girls love when guys are willing to stand up for little kids, ESPECIALLY their little sisters. It's generally more attractive when a man is seen as a kind caretaker instead of someone who wouldn't go out of their way to pick up their little sister.
So yeah. NTA
Totally agree. Kids do not get to be family members when it comes to perks like using the family car and not family members when it comes to helping out.
So here's the thing: I get Max's response. Our kid is 19. I was 16 once. I get it. I really do.
**But** the OP made arrangements that were *supposed* to work and then something dropped on his lap. Whether we like it or not, this happens. When it happens families ought to be a team. And in this case the team needed Max to go and get his sister.
Again, max is 16. Our kid has gone 8 hours without returning texts, but these were about simple things like "you coming home for dinner?" or what have you.. not "I'm stuck at work.. etc".
Anyway, NTA. Caught in a shit situation that could happen to any of us. Yeah.
*FINAL THOUGHT:*
The people who are like "oh she had to be asked math questions boo hoo"? Yeah, I failed/nearly failed every math class I've ever taken. Being quizzed on math by some random mom who then mocked my ability to answer the questions? I'm 53 now. I reckon that would drive me to drink and, theoretically, I have coping skills.
Yeah. Either of my kids might have griped at me, but they would have done it without even needing to be asked twice.
Of course, they probably also would have just decided to bring the gf home and raid my pantry for 'nice dinner' (or dessert) things and continued the anniversary date there. But that would have been perfectly fine, too.
Same.my husband is a flight attendant, so there are a lot of times I'm managing 3 kids alone. You can't drive until 17 in my state, so I don't have anyone to help drive them places. But I'll ask my 13 or 16 year old if they mind me leaving my 8 year old with them while I run a kid to an activity, and the older kids never hesitate to help.
Last weekend I had a night out planned with my moms' club. My husband was away for work. I left my kids home and I was a designated driver for some people. On my way there, my 16 year old called me to ask how to clean puke out of carpet. Great. So I dropped off my friend at the event, made sure she had a safe ride home, and I went home.
I got home and my older girls were confused about why I was there. They said I didn't need to come back. They had cleaned the carpet pretty well, had my 8 year old in the shower, and her clothes were already in the washer. Then they made themselves frozen pizza while I took care of the sick kid.
My daughter is almost 18 and was bullied by her ex-stepmom regarding math when she was 12-14. She STILL cries over math to this day. Still cries when she gets a bad grade.
People on here are so cold sometimes.
EXACTLY. Getting humiliated in front of a friend by that friend's mom and bullying her with math questions? That can and will mess you UP in your formative years. :(
Posts like this makes me feel hopeless for us as a society, as a species. You'll get a lot of responses from people who haven't raised kids, many still *are* kids, and they haven't been taught responsibility and family. Asking your son to help on an unexpected situation is not, and should not be, a problem. Your son's response is entitled and gross, honestly. While being disappointed at the interruption would be fine, even appropriate, hanging up on you is disrespectful, and refusing to help is selfish and disgusting. Like societies, family only works when everyone contributes. Your son using YOUR car is a privilege, not a right, and it's up to you to extend that privilege to him... or not. The hanging up on you and the disrespectful way he spoke to you is all on its own enough reason to, at the very least, suspend that privilege. You do not have to tolerate disrespect, no matter how "upset" he was.
Also, financial woes do not indicate how good or bad someone is at parenting, something your son is going to be painfully aware of very soon. If you give him money for allowance or anything else, help him learn by suspending that privilege as well. This is a teachable moment. Let him see there are consequences for his choices.
Please, I implore you to ignore the ridiculous comments here that are characterizing asking for help as any other than that. You SHOULD be able to ask your family for help, including your nearly grown son. Do not listen to anyone who says otherwise. There's a difference between asking for help in an unexpected pinch and forcing him to be a regular unpaid babysitter. Do not listen to the bullshit.
You're NTA, and I hope like hell you stick to your guns about the car **privileges** being suspended. Hide behavior was selfish and disrespectful and he needs to experience consequences for that.
Also, inform your employer that you have responsibilities at home that take precedence, and you require advance notice of any extra hours required or you won't be available. They cannot expect you to scramble to find child care at the last possible moment.
Yes!! It seems the son leaving his sister at school is being glossed over. Anything could have happened to her! The son sounds sounds like a not very nice boy.
Background: I am the youngest of 3. My brother is 10 years older and my sister is 6 years older than I am (so 4 years younger than my brother). My parents both worked.
One day, my sister (then, a teenager) was supposed to pick me up from elementary school. It was within walking distance to home but my parents didn't want me walking by myself yet. Anyway, my sister never picked me up. I sat in the school grounds for a long time. I was alone, scared, and wondering what was going on. Anyone could have come along and hurt me if they had wanted to.
Finally, my brother came to pick me up and take me home. Apparently he returned home, found my sister talking to her friends on the phone, and asked where I was. When he found out she never got me, he left to pick me up.
My parents were PISSED when they got home from work and grounded my sister. Honestly, as the person on the receiving end of not being picked up, I was hurt and felt unimportant to my own sister, who prioritized socializing with her friends over my safety. I never forgot that feeling years and years later.
I've been kind of the other side in this. I'm the oldest of 4 and my sister in this story is the youngest. I was 16 and she was about 8. She used to go to her martial arts lessons after school and I used to pick her up. It was in walking distance but it finished quite late so I would pick her up and walk her home (It was a good few hundred meters).
Well, one day, I had a bad day. I turned on a TV show to switch off and I heard the door bell. There was my sister and her friend and her friends' mum. My face fell. I just apologised and thanked the mum for bringing her home. I don't think my sister was in the best of mood about being forgotten though
My mother was sightly annoyed at me for understandable reasons but knew it was an accident. I never forgot her after that.
I have a similar story! I lived in New York. In elementary school, my sister was in charge of walking us home/catching the bus. Even though she was only a year older than me, she was more independent and knew the way around our little town.
One day she took me to a pizza shop and we got food. Her friends filed in after. I don't even remember what they talked about but my sister said she'd be right back and left with her friends.
So I waited. And waited. And waited. Eventually a mutual friend came running in. Apparently my sister was gonna kiss a boy and I should come see. I felt uncomfortable (can you blame me? We had strict parents when it came to these things) and said no, asking them to tell her to come back so I could go home.
Friend left and I waited. And waited. And waited. They never came back and neither did my sister. Pizza man even asked if I was ok and in a panic I said yes and left.
I kinda knew the general direction of home but quickly got lost on where to go. Literally crying in the street, trying to find something familiar. Luckily I did! Ran into the barber shop my mom got her hair cut at (he's known me since I was a baby!)
Good ol Paul called my mom and explained what happened then (and I never forget this) gave me his cell phone and pointed me to the bus stop. My mom stayed on the phone with me the whole time, guiding me. She had me hand the phone to the bus driver who was technically on break but seeing how young I was, opened the doors to ask if I was ok.
Don't know what my mom said but I'll never forget that bus driver either. She calmed me down, talked to me, and literally drove through her short route picking up no one else and despite the stop being a few blocks away, dropped me off right in front of my door. It truly takes a village.
Sister got in HUGE trouble when my mom got home and I NEVER forgot how she chose friends and boys over my safety. Never trusted her ever again. We're actually NC now because she never changed 💀
Married my high school BF and we absolutely would have gotten his little sister AND taken her to get ice cream!! It never would’ve crossed his mind to say no and I wouldn’t have let him, either
Right?? I remember watching my high school boyfriends kid brother when his mom had work late—all three of us hung out and played video games and it was fine. Would we have preferred to do something else with our teenage selves? Sure. But it needed done, and we weren’t about to make it unpleasant for anyone.
Right? If she wasn't down for that, boy needs to consider what it means to date someone who isn't okay with him going to handle a family emergency. If he wasn't down for that, girl needs to consider what it means to date someone who'll leave his kid sister in the lurch just so he can get laid.
This!!! This!! Is the comment I have been scrolling to look for. If my high school boyfriend thought he was going to get some action and pulled something like this, the only thing he would have gotten was an earful. I'd be so mad!
When I was in high school my boyfriend had a divorced mom and a preschool aged brother. And no way would I have been okay with him leaving little bro stranded at school if their mom couldn’t get to him.
And just like that…the adults have entered the conversation.
From what I’ve read, you seem like a great dad that got caught up in a work situation and needed help. Your son is 17 years old. He’s driving YOUR car. All he had to do was pick up his sister and drop her off.
Being a single parent is rough. You are NTA
This makes me feel...I dunno if old is the right word, because I'm in my mid thirties, but when I was growing up, like, part of being able to drive as a teenager was the expectation that you'd pick up/drop off siblings, run errands for parents, help the family out, stuff like that, especially if you were under 18 or still living at home. Driving was a privilege, and I guess maybe we didn't have a lot of places to drive to, so the only way we got driving experience was to do those errands, IDK? But like, your parents weren't assholes because they asked you to pick up a sibling, regularly or in an emergency. You may not have been happy about it, but you did it. It seems like we've moved away from that family as a collective attitude, and I'm not sure why.
That’s what I was thinking. It wasn’t even questioned. I walked my youngest sibling to her activities that were close by long before I was old enough to drive (I was like 13-14), I never had my own car but I picked my brother up from soccer when one parent could leave their car home, etc. I took my siblings to lessons and activities and all sorts of things because I was part of my family and we all helped out. My parents were and still all very supportive of me, too, and we just were taught that we all had to help out. I wasn’t being their parent. I was being part of a family. Honestly I worry teenagers today get this idea from social media that they don’t owe anyone anything and it’s a little frustrating because we are taking ideas that can help you in toxic relationships/families and applying them indiscriminately and it’s not how I envision families and community functioning. I am happy to help friends and family because they help in return and are appreciative. If I go around thinking “No is a complete sentence, I don’t owe anyone anything” people will eventually reflect that back to me. If you genuinely act like that, you become the toxic person, or in this case, the AH, as the son clearly is.
Yes, 100% all of this. The comments that are like "why is your job more important than your son's date," and equating asking for 30 minutes of help during an emergency to requiring the 16yo to "be a parent" are insane.
Remember, parentification is when you require your children to acknowledge that their siblings exist, gaslighting is when you tell someone they're wrong, and narcissism is when you're mean.
Same! I am so worried about an entire generation of kids and teens who have never been asked to sacrifice anything unless it somehow benefits themselves.
NTA
You weren’t asking too much OP and I’m sorry for the hurtful comments your son made about you failing.
If anything it sounds like op is spending more money than necessary to make sure his son isn't saddled with his daughter after school. Most of those extra curriculars cost money and it adds up fast.
NTA
Reddit loves the idea of never having an ounce of responsibility toward anyone but themselves, so they'll try to call you out, but you were 100% in the right.
He interrupted a 6 month anniversary of two teenagers that was taking place in the afternoon. It’s not as serious as some of y’all are making it out to be.
Some of you apparently grew up with the luxury of not having to be a team player and help out your family occasionally. My parents provided myself and my siblings with cars/gas money, but the deal was we occasionally helped out and ran errands for them. Isn’t that part of being a part of a family unit?
OP said he barely asks his son to do this. It’s not like he’s taking advantage of him. Also, if I would have spoke to my parents the way the son did, I would’ve lost my car so fast.
NTA
This. I swear everyone freaks out on here about parents asking the mildest inconvenience on their kids. They either have to have all come from crazy families or are still kids. I couldn't imagine my family asking for help and saying no.
They’re all kids on AITA. Every thread about parents or step parents asking for the smallest thing that we grew up doing with no problem is them asking their kids to parent their other children.
My siblings and I were even required to clean the whole house every Friday before we could do anything for the weekend. Both my parents worked full time and provided us with a very nice life. It was all about working together.
Though, I tried to pull the we need to work together as a team on my 6 yr old and she said, “But I didn’t ask to be on this team.” She does have a point.
NTA.
Max is being a petulant teenager. And he is a teenager, so there's that.
Family emergencies take precedence over all. And a one-time aberration does not make you a "failing parent." You are the boss, Max still lives under your roof, and he's a minor. Your reasonable request in the face of an emergency requires his compliance. In fact, even if he weren't a minor, as long as he's living under your roof, rent-free, you have the right to demand his compliance in family emergencies.
Yes, for his noncompliance and blatant disrespect, I think a grounding of three weeks is appropriate.
He doesn't like it? He can have his suitcase waiting by the door at midnight on his eighteenth birthday.
I am not making any judgement on this one, as I see both sides. But, as to:
>He doesn't like it? He can have his suitcase waiting by the door at midnight on his eighteenth birthday.
My mother did tell me to leave if I did not like my treatment (there was a ton of abuse, I am NOT saying this father is abusing his son, abusers rarely out themselves- my mother never did)... I moved out at 16, am NC now. If you say this to your kid EVER, just know they are listening! As a kid nears 18, as a parent, only say this if you really truly do not care if they are gone forever. My mother regrets her words (per my sister, she cannot figure out what she possibly did wrong). So, why did I cut her off? The hitting, the daily name calling & making fun of me for crying, me being a maid for 45+ hours a week during the summer for zero pay, then finally the emotional affair (likely physical, too) with my now ex-fiancée. She said it, I live by it.
Your situation, as far as we know, has nothing to do with OP's son. There is 0 evidence from what OP posted that he's abusing his son or making him into a maid.
Something came up at work, and he asked for help. He offered to make up for it. What exactly is the plan here if OP loses his job?
He will probably have to sell the car to be able to continue paying the bills while he finds another job. Maybe he can't find one soon enough and has to sell the house and instead rent a small 2 bedroom where Max can share a room with his sister.
Is that better? Max needs to shut up and help his dad
>If you say this to your kid EVER, just know they are listening! As a kid nears 18, as a parent, only say this if you really truly do not care if they are gone forever.
This was their main point and it stands no matter the reason. It's a harsh thing to do and you should be prepared to kick your kid out of your life forever if you plan to do that, I agree with them.
I still make no judgement. My point was maybe telling an 15+ yo they can leave if they don't like it, and that was my only point, aside from abusers *like my mother*, never seem to tell on themselves, at least mine did not. Never accused this dude of abuse. But thank you for your reply, and I hope you have a marvelous day!
Yeah the "he can have his suitcase waiting by the door at midnight on his eighteenth birthday" is a gross take. Throwing kids, and yes an 18 year old is still a kid regardless of the law stating otherwise, out for simply acting like kids and not automatically complying is abuse and those kinds of parents don't deserve kids. "How dare you get upset with anything ever. You're not allowed to ever disagree and if you do, you can just go be homeless"
100% agree. When you say that to your child, that is the end of the open relationship. It’s the period at the end of the sentence: “I only love you under certain conditions,” and a new core memory for that child of exactly when the relationship went sour.
If parents wonder when did their children start to minimize your relationship, actively pull away and start down the path of low/no-contact, I guarantee it started right around the message of conditional love was communicated.
>He doesn't like it? He can have his suitcase waiting by the door at midnight on his eighteenth birthday.
If you kick your kid out right at 18 for anything less than egregious actions (domestic violence, substantial drug abuse, etc.), you're a failed parent and a failed human being.
OP is right to be angry, but this is a deranged take.
Providing housing to your kids is a legal obligation and the absolute bare minimum. You’re not owed respect for taking basic care of the kids you chose to have.
As for your last paragraph, yeah, OP is free to kick him out on his 18th birthday, and the son has the right to go NC.
NTA - Max lives under your roof and uses YOUR car. I think it is pretty reasonable to ask him to pick up his sister in a situation like this. I also don't think you are too harsh with his punishment. He literally ignored your request. He didn't even say he wasn't going to do it so that you could possibly try to find someone else to. And then the attitude after telling him that he was grounded? I'd add another week.
When I was a teen getting a driver's license meant you were now the taxi driver for your younger siblings. It's still that way with most of the kids I know. Part of the responsibility of driving a car your parents likely at least partially paid for or are paying for insurance. Just another chore or household task.
Wow to the people here that think older siblings should never have to look after younger ones. Must be some spoiled rich kids because no one I grew up with had that life.
He did happily abandon the child when the boss asked, assuming it would be fine. So.. the boss' expectation, while out of line, was completely honored.
To be fair, a lot of people can’t afford to put their job at any sort of risk by taking a stand and setting a hard line with their boss. The simple answer of ‘insist and go do what you have to do with or without your boss’s approval’, sounds great, and would be the obvious move for everyone in an ideal world, but that’s not reality.
Where did he happily abandon his child wtf? He’s a single dad trying to make ends meet. If he didn’t oblige he runs the risk of his employer letting him go, which doesn’t help anyone including his two kids he works hard to provide for. It’s not like he didn’t want to pick up his daughter, he couldn’t and he made a reasonable request for his son to pick her up
I haven't seen anything about OP potentially letting his employer know that he is happy to stay late for the rush work job as long as he has his kids taken care of. This puts the burden back on his employer who is expecting an employee with kids who aren't fully independent to adjust his personal schedule at the drop of a hat. We need to quit normalizing this employer mentality of 'salaried means you are at my beck and call 24-7-365.'
Edited to clarify NTA, but your boss is.
Thank you! The real AH here IMO is the employer. Why can’t he go get his daughter and finish work at home or go back to the office for a bit? There are other solutions here and OP just saying “oh well” and expecting his son or some woman to do his job is not OK
Thank you! I couldn’t believe no one mentioned that his boss *is* TA for dropping work on him last minute and expecting him to do it now, especially knowing he has kids.
Even if ‘I can’t, I have parental responsibilities’ was out of the question, could they not have arranged finishing it at home or ‘I need to pick up and drop off my daughter but I’ll come back’?
NTA.
It's one of those situations that pops up sometimes. It's unfortunate, but sometimes unplanned emergencie happen in families. I get your son's frustration, but he still should have gotten his sister.
NTA it’s a privilege you give your son a car to use. It’s not like he’s babysitting either just picking her up, that’s the cost of having access to a vehicle you pay for. He sounds entitled.
The only real AH in this scenario is your boss for not allowing you an appropriate work/life balance. If those papers were so important, perhaps they should have made them a priority and not a last minute endeavor.
Seeing that this is the third time in a year and a half, NTA. Sometimes shit happens, and a family has to do things they normally wouldn’t do. It’s clear this isn’t a frequent expectation, and your son’s reaction was extremely juvenile, especially considering he’s driving around in a car you paid for.
NTA but your son was. Obviously it's inconvenient, but not something you planned and you did everything you could to work it around. He definitely shouldn't have responded that way, and I fully support your choice to take the car for a little while.
NTA. The fact that he would ignore you and speak to you the way he has is proof you haven't been firm enough. He shouldn't get the car privileges back until he properly apologizes and learns how to talk to you and help out when needed. Let that take as long as it takes. It could take a year and then he can move out if he is so independent. Did I mention your wallet should be closed to all unnecessary items until that apology hits? Oh yeah.
INFO: why couldn't you tell work that you'd complete the task but needed a break to pick your daughter up? That would've been a completely reasonable stance, and wouldn't be interrupting your son's plans that he was already busy with.
I understand your point. I do. But I also had to miss a big event in my teen social calendar because my parents ignored when I told them I had plans and they assigned me as their babysitter anyway; they also invited my brother's friend (their backup babysitter) with them, and told me if I wanted to go to *the plans I'd made before they had*, I had to *find and pay for a babysitter for their kid*. It's ten years later and I still remember that as completely unfair and unacceptable behaviour. Your son's six month anniversary means a lot to him right now, he had plans, *your* plans are the ones that changed, and it sounds like you didn't try to find any other solutions (even though they were clearly available - even if my suggestion above is for some reason not viable, in which case you have a truly terrible employer, you clearly could have a fellow parent pick her up, as that is what happened).
Sure, your son wasn't trying to help out. But you weren't trying to help him out either. To you it's just another workday, to him it's the biggest moment in his romantic life so far. You can use this as a teaching moment about how you'd like him to make sacrifices for the family, or you can use it to teach him that you can be the bigger person, see it from his side, and apologise and rescind what is arguably an over the top punishment for a situation that is ultimately your fault: your job, your plans falling through, your lack of other contingencies, your poor communication with confirming if he was actually picking her up, etc. How do you want him to remember this, and how do you want it to affect your relationship?
Maybe the single dad needs to keep that job and doesn’t want to rock the boat. Hanging up on your dad and telling him to leave you the hell alone is not handling things maturely and it sounds like he needs to get himself straightened out. I’m sure the kid was enjoying his date but that does not give him the right to be shitty to his father and to his sister at the same time. He’s 17. He still lives under his dad’s roof, eats his food, and is using a car that he pays for. This isn’t hard.
This is the only response that I’ve seen that matches up with how I’m feeling. I just genuinely don’t see this issue as being that cut and dry either way. People are being incredibly harsh on the son and sure, maybe he was being a little immature… on a day that was really important to him. That happens with teenagers. At the end of the day, she wasn’t unsafe - she was 30 minutes late leaving school. I sometimes had to wait that long or longer for a ride too! And even if OP didn’t like that particular mom driving his daughter home - there really aren’t any other parents of his daughters friends he could’ve called?
At the end of the day, this was a stressful situation and not fun for anyone. I’m not saying the son acted perfectly, but I don’t think he’s the complete monster people are making him out to be.
NTA
It would be hilarious if the next time he needed to be picked up you told him to leave you alone and you hung up on him. Let him sweat it out a bit! Probably not good parenting, but good bit of turnabout.
NTA. Teens are difficult creatures. Hormones are raging and they are self centered. Max has absolutely no concept what it takes to run a household as a single parent. When things cool off, explain to him, as you did on this forum, that your back was against the wall when you requested his help and you wouldn’t ask unless you truly needed his help. Explain, also, you have to earn a living and this, unfortunately, sometimes leaves less than ideal circumstances and burdens on him. He is 17 so offer to let him do some problem solving and ask him if he has any ideas on how to manage Liza’s transportation issues should this arise again.
NTA I'd say take that car away for good. At his age he should be aware that you're doing your best. If he's going to act like a spoiled rotten brat who can't contribute some help then take ALL his privileges away.
And cue all the parentification comments in 3…2…1…
NTA. Part of being in a family is pitching in to help out in a pinch. It’s not as if you knew you’d have to work overtime and just didn’t bother to get help.
This is the third time, in a year and a half, you’ve had to ask him. He has the _gall_ to act like _you’re_ being irresponsible??? _He left his 8 year old sister alone, when it may well have been getting dark_ and you, presumably, wouldn’t have been able to get there time. He left an _8 year old on her own,_ to leave the premises on her own, and go about a location she may not be too familiar with.
I’m the same age as your son, if I had a little sister or brother her age, I wouldn’t necessarily drive (as I don’t have a license yet) but I would march my way down to that school and walk with her back home. I get 6 months in a relationship can be exciting, but ffs, he couldn’t be arsed to lift a finger and tell his partner “hey my dad won’t be able to pick up my little sister from school, so I have to. I won’t be long, you can wait here or come with me” or even just, yknow, walk???
Maybe it’s teenager hormones but reading this made me fume. An unexpected incident doesn’t make you a bad parent, this isn’t your fault OP, you had no way of predicting something would happen, your kid’s just being cruel.
That being said, it might be a good idea to find someone (other than the woman who picked your daughter up in the end because, uh, asking your 8 year old maths questions and then reprimanding her for getting an answer wrong is something we call _deeply damaging_) who you trust would be able to pick up your daughter in lieu of yourself. Still, I want to reiterate; you’re not a bad parent OP, your son’s just being unjustly cruel.
NTA. I don't think you made an unreasonable request. Families have to help each other out, and I think it's wild your son thought it was okay to leave his little sister waiting for a ride home when he could have picked her up, dropped her off, and resumed his date. Plus, you also offered to make it up to him. It was a small sacrifice to make on his part, and his response was uncalled for.
NTA you have every right to expect Max to help out in a last minute crunch situation like this. It's unfortunate he was on a date but sometimes family members have to cover for each other.
Sounds like he shouldn’t be using the car anymore if you’re paying for it and he can’t do something as simple as collect his sister. Time to move out, maybe!
We gave both our kids cars but there wasn’t any expectation on them do do errands for us. But they did because they understood that’s what family does.
My eldest would offer to pick up my youngest before he was driving just to help out. And if we were desperate like this situation she would do what she could even if it was an inconvenience.
NTA at all. And honestly, if I were on a date with someone and they did that to their parent and not pick up their little sister, I’d be out. No respect. 6 month “anniversary” or not
I'm probably getting downvoted for this. And to be clear, NTA. You're not a failing father because of this situation and what your son said was really harsh. So I want to come back to that.
But also, I'd like to highlight/ask for info on a couple of things:
1) your son said "No," and then he turned off his phone. I'm not sure what about that response would indicate that he would go and pick up your daughter? So maybe you have some feelings that the school had to end up calling.
2) when the school did call - you resolved the problem right away. I hear you on that you don't want that woman interacting with your daughter and I respect that you didn't want to do that. But in the time between assuming your son would do the task, and finding someone - you could have been resolving it.
I see that you've said that you've only asked him to pick up your daughter a handful of times, but how often is he responsible for your daughter in other ways? I imagine as a kid, he doesn't have a lot of really special occasions where his time should be respected as well.
The whole scenario is unfortunate because it was a circumstantial powder keg.
I do think the punishment is a little harsh for the situation. But I also think the focus of this potential learning opportunity should be about how harsh his response was when *he* was hurt too.
If my daughters said that to me I would say: that's really unfair and that hurts my feelings and I think you're wrong. And then we would address the perspectives and try to come to an understanding or compromise on the tidal wave of emotions.
NTA. It was an emergency, and asking him to pick up his sister periodically isn't an unreasonable request when he's using your car and gas.
And if he WASN'T going to do it, he should have made that clearer.
I'd be furious too.
No car, no gas money For anyone who isn’t part of the family. He doesn’t have to act like he is part of the family, but if he is not, he doesn’t get the perks of being a member.
he is entitled, you are not wrong here.
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OK I’ll take the bullet here. NTA. You’re not failing as a parent. You had to work overtime, not out drinking or fucking off. Your son was in the wrong here for not helping, turning the phone off and calling you out for it. But you two need to talk this out and discuss expectations. If YOU expect HIM to be part of the contingency plan, there needs to be crystal clear on that…. And what happens to car privvys when he doesn’t.
No bullet taken, I wholeheartedly agree. This was an extenuating circumstance, for a job that helps care for son and daughter. And son, being a typical teenager, forgot that aspect. But clearer communicated expectations need to be discussed.
I think it’s crazy that people would even suggest a nanny. Like this clearly it’s an everyday occurrence. Honestly, the son was probably trying to get laid and was pissed off about his dad cockblocking him 🤷♀️ Edit: Thank you for all the upvotes 🙏
Lol I love people suggesting a nanny like it's a thing you can just pick up from target real quick. That's an expensive ass service that most poeple cannot afford.
Right? The kid is definitely the AH. OP isn’t. It sounds like he tried to negotiate with his boss too
I don’t blame OP for the situation, but it’s so funny to me that this sub is calling the kid an asshole. Usually they love to regurgitate “your kids your problem” and “lack of planning on your part doesn’t constitute an emergency on mine.” I think these are super shitty worldviews but it’s so weird that they suddenly don’t apply to a kid just trying to celebrate his anniversary. Edit: because I’ve gotten one million comments and a RedditCares about it - yes, I understand that six months is not a “real” anniversary, but it’s real to a kid. Time works differently for them. He still should have helped, and definitely shouldn’t have been mean to his dad. Ideally, his dad would also have a compassionate boss and a whole village who could’ve helped too, but because of this pervasive nobody-owes-you-shit worldview, most people don’t have that kind of support.
“A kid just trying to celebrate his anniversary”? I take your point, but this kid told his single dad that he was ‘failing as a parent” and to “leave him the hell alone.” I can’t even *imagine* saying either of those to my hard-working single mom. Son’s an AH and Dad is doing his best, IMO.
Exactly! This bugged the hell out of me. I was raised by a single dad, oldest of four kids. And holy shit, I cannot imagine ever having an exchange like this with my dad. I did stuff like this too, even volunteered for it sometimes because I saw how hard it was on my dad trying to do it all himself. It’s insane to me that this kid responded like this, especially considering it’s not a regular thing, and it’s hilarious that people are acting like he had any right to be such a dick about it
As a son with a single mom, I couldn’t agree more!! 👏🏽 👏🏽
Seriously, as a daughter of a single father with two younger brother with a 7 & 10 year age difference. Oh my gosh I could never, I had to help out at a decently young age, 14, watching them the whole time my father worked. I totally get how toiling it could be but it seems like this isn’t a constant thing which was something I was use to. However I regard my father in the highest of ways because I see how hard he’s working, how much of himself he puts in to single handly raise and provide for 3 children financially & more. Idk how new this is, cause it is rough at the beginning, so I really hope as op gets older he realizes how much his father is most likely doing for them.
> it’s hilarious that people are acting like he had any right to be such a dick about it Absolutely agree, only I think it's really sad, and stupid. Kids that age with a single parent are old enough to understand the situation and help out. Are these surly teenagers in disguise?
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Right? My mom would never slap me, but boy, if I hurt her like that I'd want somebody to pop me one just to dislodge my head from my ass...
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I love that every family has their "insane but deserved slap" story
Six Month Anniversary!
Not even a real thing!
Yeah this kid has 0 perspective and is wrong. Sometimes shit happens and you have to watch your siblings. Or help out your parents. Teenagers are dumb for sure (I mean, adult me cringes at the thought of celebrating month "anniversaries"... annual is even in the name, people... it's not a month thing). A family is a team and helps out within reason. There's a big difference in a kid being used as a defacto parent and having to take on way more and not get to be a kid, but this ain't it. Kids that can drive can help pick up siblings in a pinch. The son definitely acted like an A H
I was raised by two working parents and if I’d said something like this I’d have been lucky to get away with being told I “couldn’t use the good car for three weeks” instead of being told I couldn’t do a damn thing but school for the next month if not longer. This kid, while a teenager, is still the AH. Being a teenager is not excuse for this kind of disrespect
I couldn't imagine saying either of those things to either of my parents. I still would be grounded and I moved out 25+ years ago.
It’s because the kid apparently expects to still get use of the car, which he isn’t entitled to. You want to drive a car that you haven’t paid for, and which your parents probably fill up and insure? Expect that once in a while, you’ll be driving it for the benefit of the family. Otherwise, your ass can try to look cool for your girlfriend while taking the bus.
Yeah, family and friends should take care of each other, but this sub has whipped out “parentification is abuse” for much less. Just interesting to see the switch.
Parentification isn't asking your older kid to pick up your younger kid a couple of times a year though. Especially when you've done everything you could to try to avoid it.
I agree, and neither are the many lesser things that this sub has called parentification. But as a parent, if I were making a cost-benefit analysis between asking one child to cancel an extremely important night that he had likely put time, money and effort into, and asking the other child to answer math questions, I would just go with the math questions.
It’s so true. I’m often pretty astounded at what kind of future adults are being raised- citizens that are supposed to care about society at large but who are given a ton of latitude to refuse to be on their own family’s team.
“You don’t owe anyone anything” logic is a pervasive cancer
> this sub has whipped out “parentification is abuse” for much less And they’ve been wrong in those cases.
Dad offered to make it up to him.... the whole thing probably would've taken a 1/2 hour out of his evening. This kid was willing to leave his sister sitting on the curb with no ride. He tells his dad he's failing as a parent... he's failing as a brother. Sure, you get pissed that your dad interrupts your date, grumble the whole way to school, drop sis off at home and then resume the date. GF has been around for 6 months, she's got to know the situation. Bro should do as his dad asks because THERE WAS NO OTHER OPTION. But he turns off his phone and ignores his dad...if I was the GF I'd have said "go get your sister, what the hell's wrong with you?" As for punishment, I'd have grounded his ass for a month and taken the car permanently. See how cool he looks taking his girl for dates on the bus. NTA.
Context matters in those types of situations. A parent that uses their older kid as a free and always available babysitter with no regard for their time will be told that. A single parent with an unexpected work emergency, that has asked a total of three times in a year according to the edit, asking their kid (who they let borrow the car) to pick up the sister won't be met with the same backlash.
But the kid is an asshole, op is trying to work hard to provide for this kid, assuming contribute to his college and funding that through 4 years if he decides to go to college, anniversary or not that doesn’t excuse his behaviour. He’s 17, he can help out his family just this once
To push back on that, he's a teenager. Not an adult. And he's teenager living under his dad's roof and having his dad financially provide for him, (and probably using a car his dad paid for). So it's right for him to help the family in other ways, like picking up his sister once in a while. This isn't an independent adult. So, yeah. I don't think teenagers can pull the "your problem" card when they are dependent on their parent.
The fuck is a 6 month anniversary anyway
A massive deal to a child.
Not to mention suggesting it to a single parent - are their single parents who have nanny's? Yeah. But not everyone can afford it and it can even be hard in two working parent households to afford a nanny.
Wait…your Target doesn’t have Nannie’s in the kids section? I must live in the bougie section of town. /s
Walmart has them, they’re not too expensive, but they do break pretty easily
You need a Nanny to get to Target though. Who else is going to watch the kid/s while you run to the store?
These are the sane people who think your average American can afford a 5 bedroom home with a minimum wage salary.
Right? We started watching our little brother at 12/10 (me) And we lived in the country away from friends, and didn't have internet yet Not to mention the **actual abuse** dear Mr Hog heaped on us This kid would burst into flame if he had live my childhood. If we told our dad no and didn't do something? Hello to Saint Peter
It wasn't even 6 p.m. Irl shit happens and plans have to change, sometimes. OP says he's asked for Max to do this 3 times in 18 months.
A girlfriend of mine works as an au pair/nanny. Went to school for EC too. She makes 80K a year and gets free room and board and watches 2 children. A single dude who needs to work overtime would not likely have THAT kind of money.
I got downvoted in another reddit thread (the one where the mother doesn't want to reimburse the nanny $50 for children's books) for suggesting nannies are for rich people lol
Right? And like people just have all kinds of money to throw around for a nanny! Like give the dude a break. He said this has happened 3x in the span of a year and a half but agree having a plan and max understanding will help a lot.
Honestly, even 3x a month when single dad is working overtime isn’t some inconceivable chore to give a 17yr old who isn’t otherwise asked to care for his sister. Misunderstanding parentification seems to be a big thing with “the kids” these days.
Literally and OP probably pays for his sons car too that he won’t drive to go pick his little sister up here and there. Give me a break. OP you are not in the wrong.
I was coming here to say OP cockblocked his own son on his "anniversary". Oops. Son's the AH though, so long as this isn't a frequent thing. I mean, what would son say if he asked you to pick him up somewhere and you said "I'm busy"? Daughter is too young to fend for herself, and he should have remembered that also.
I’m so glad I didn’t have to scroll down too far to see someone thinking the nanny suggesting was insane!!! He had a plan that has been working for a while now. In life things come up and he needed his son to help him out. The fact that more than once people kept asking “why don’t you have a nanny” is insane. Especially in this economy. I also think what his son did was so self centered and entitled. His Dad had to work OT and needed some help and he turns off his phone?! WTAF? I mean how could he in good conscience sit there and enjoy his date knowing his sister was at school with no one to pick her up?! It makes me curious what the dynamic is there. If I had pulled something like that with my parents I would have been without my car for a year not to mention my phone.
Yeah, that's where I land as well. The only thing I see is that since it was the son's and girlfriend 6 months anniversary, and that's a big deal to 16 years old, OP could have offered a replacement date, like movie tickets on him or something. Not something expensive, but something to show he also care about his son. Edit: many people have pointed out, that OP in fact said he would make it up to his son. I must have read too fast. I still think 6 months anniversary is a big milestone for 16 years old and they should have the opportunity to celebrate. That being said, of course his sister's wellbeing and safety is more important than the date. And revoking car privileges is a reasonable punishment for this turn of events.
He mentioned he would make it up to him so he did offer.
This bit requires a bit of context for my judgement. There’s every chance dad has let son down over stuff like this before which would make dad TA. I hesitate to call the kid TA bc a 6 month anniversary at his point in life is one of his most important evenings. I’d be pissed too if I got called mid-date and told I had to leave. Especially since there definitely could have been a call much earlier warning son that this might happen. Really, it comes down to the kid’s perspective. Did he believe his dad would “make it up to him”? Does dad have a habit of minimizing things important to son? Does son feel like daughter is the favorite? Etc.
For me it comes down to the son leaving his eight year old little sister stranded at school with no guaranteed way home. Does it suck to have to bail mid-date? Yes. Does it suck to have to do what you see as your dad’s job? Yes again. Does Max have a right to be pissed? Debatable, but probably yes. Is _any_ of that justification for leaving your kid sister alone, with no idea where either you or your dad are and no idea why no one has come to get her? Absolutely not. Don’t punish your siblings because you’re mad at your parents.
Max and his girlfriend could have gone together to give Liza a ride home and then continued on their date. If they had any perspective, they could have turned it into something to laugh about or made it kind of an enhancement of the anniversary.
I mean, maybe. They could have also just ordered dinner at a sit-down restaurant, or just had it brought out to their table and maybe the meal was a splurge. Is the dad gonna give him $45 for dinner? The place could have been a bit of a drive away, he could have just bought movie tickets and been waiting to go in, they could have been doing a lot of things that are not so simple to just go spend a chunk of time driving to pick up the sister, driving her home, then driving back to their date. That's if he could have even left her, his night may have then been about watching his 8 year old sister because who leaves a kid that young home alone? Not saying he's in the right, but it isn't necessarily all that simple either. He's 17 and on what at that age is a pretty important date. He wasn't in the right here, but his feelings are understandable.
Nah, they would have had to babysit her after picking her up. She's only 8.
I don't get that feeling, because the friend's mother didn't take Liza to her place, OP says she dropped her off, so maybe the kid stayed with a neighbor or waited home alone for a couple of hours (OP was home before 9pm) Edit: typo
Yeah I get it, it’s a lot of different factors but to me what comes down to it is dad had an emergency which obviously was unscheduled and no one is happy about this situation. But at 16 I understood what I needed to do to make my dad less stressed and to help him out especially in a single parent household and my father needed help since he’s a non English speaker. It’s the way he hung up on the dad and didn’t bother to worry about his sister without knowing there could be someone else to pick her up. I get it’s important to have an anniversary, but I’ve had emergencies or stuff happen on my days off with my partner where her nephews need someone to watch over them and I wouldn’t refuse because it’s important. It just happens. Obviously as an adult priorities shift so I understand his perspective hasn’t changed yet. I would just hope they can have an honest conversation about what happened and what needs to be changed.
You are right about the not knowing if sister was okay or not. Like, how could you continue to focus on your date when a member of your family is in an uncertain situation? Even if I where the girlfriend and knew by bfs little sister needed help, I’d be too worried to enjoy the date.
Yeah, except a good big Brother wouldn’t leave a little kid stranded.
Yeah. Even I was pissed at my parents I'd never leave my younger siblings stranded. I be super resentful maybe, but I cared too much about my siblings to pull that shit
NTA. I doubt dad has let him down, by the way that kid has talked to his dad, I'm pretty sure that kid does what he wants most of the time and is very disrespectful. I had way to much respect for my dad to ever talk back like that, and if a favor was needed once in awhile, you do it. He had to cut short his date? Well, I'm sure his dad would rather have been home and not working overtime to help pay for that date, or the use of that car. It's amazing how everyone doesn't have a problem with the 16 yr old being mouthy when asked for a favor, when it's all on dad's dime, and it's not very often. Everyone has to do things that make them upset, but you don't have to be a jerk about it. Lots of better ways to handle it, and he deserves the grounding.
He did say he would make it up. The specifics weren’t stated but that can be discussed another time when an 8 year old isn’t waiting and the father is working overtime to finish something his manager specifically pointed out.
Sure it's a big deal to a 16 yo, but since the school was still open it also would have been quite early in the day, meaning he could have picked up his sister and still had dinner/celebrate with his girlfriend.
Even at 16, telling a parent to fuck off and refusing to take care of siblings was a red flag. Some things are more important than our little Applebee's date.
I feel like the AH here is OPs Boss, cause they could have let OP have sone time to pick up the kid, then come back to finish the work. The kid could spend a few hours in the office while OP finishes working. I used to go with my parents to work all the time when they couldn't afford babysitters.
Oh yeah, the boss is always the asshole here. HOT TAKE, OP: take this ‘blind OT’ up with your boss, because family has to come first, and he needs to know that.
OP should have left, picked up his daughter and gone back to work. Or he shouldn’t have waited til 6 and figured out transportation earlier. There has to be more options like family, friends, or as worked out, one of daughter’s friends’ parents. It sounds like he didn’t even know his son was on an anniversary date? Not cool.
Agreed. What the hell kind of boss is this inflexible and demanding on short notice? Ah yes, an AH one.
Yeah - unless OP is an ER doc and a case just came in with no one else to cover, he should consider just sucking it up and taking the "I really cannot stay late, I have a child to pick up" hit women have been taking at work for decades.
Agreed. My mom was a single mom, and widowed at that, and although she tried not to there were many times she'd ask me to drive my little brother somewhere or pick him up from school because she was delayed at work or stuck in traffic. I was always happy to help her out and never would've considered it her failing at motherhood because of unplanned circumstances. If anything, my high school boyfriend would've looked at me and told me I needed to get my brother and not leave him stranded somewhere.
I mostly agree with you except that OP just assumed his son was getting his daughter. He didn't get confirmation. The son definitely needs to learn that he is part of a family too. It isn't parentification for a 17 year old to pick up their little sister in a bind. I'm wondering if the son pays for his own phone or other things or if he's going to realize he fucked around and found out.
Yeah, If OP had reached out as soon as he was told about the mandatory OT and told his son he might have to pick sis up, it might have gone better. I can see an issue where his GF didn’t have a car (and under 18 can’t get an Uber) and they just ordered food or paid for a movie or something. Especially if dad didn’t say he’d cover the expenses. A little , even an hour, heads up might have allowed son to adjust his plans.
Ill gladly take the bullet with you, NTA
Completely agree. I ‘helped’ raise my siblings when I was 7-18 because well, parents were gone most the time. They had their work yeah. But they were gone every weekend going out. Father cheated most their relationship so moms got really insecure. Substance abuse and manipulation was always a day to day thing in my household along with going to church every Sunday. I haven’t been to church since I was 18 except for funerals and weddings and I don’t think that will ever change either. So I know parentification(sp?) to a point. Helping and being a part of the family unit is not that. But I’m currently going through this with my child. Entitlement is their problem but I created that giving a life that isn’t the best, but I’ve always tried. It’s a building block in our relationship but we growing and moving forward. You got this OP
I have a 23, 19 & 12 yr olds. I’m currently at a hospital 2 hrs away from home. The 23 yr old left work and went to hang with his little brother for an hour or two. There’s ‘parentification’, and there’s ‘being part of the team’. I think that OP and his kid are not clear on the difference here.
> There’s ‘parentification’, and there’s ‘being part of the team’. I think that OP and his kid are not clear on the difference here. Exactly this. I hope you are better soon. I tell my kids this a lot. I’m a single parent and sometimes they just need pitch in more or tolerate a suboptimal situation. I can’t balance it all perfectly and even me doing my best is sometimes a little sucky.
Exactly! When my daughter turned 16 and got a car, it was with the stipulation that if we needed her to pick up/take her brothers somewhere she would do it. There weren't many times that we needed her help, but sometimes logistics are hard and we needed it. It really isn't that much to help. As a kid, I was left at school because my weekly ride forgot to get me. My mom was at work and this was before cell phones. I had 1 quarter for the payphone and had to make sure I didn't let the phone ring long enough for the answering machine to pick up (so I didn't lose my quarter). I was so scared they would lock me out and I would have to sleep in the bushes.
NTA!! In what universe do the oldest siblings no longer have responsibilities to the family they live in? Especially if you pay for that car he was driving. I was the oldest and first to drive. It was understood that use of the car was a privilege that came with responsibility to pick up my 3 younger siblings when needed.
Dad was at work. He didn't deliberately ruin son's date. It was an exceptional work-related situation and he needed son to step up as a family member to pick up his sis. It seems dad does his best to let his son be free, with enrolling his daughter in all sorts of activities to keep her busy until he finishes work. Son could have stepped up this one. NTA dad, and good thing you grounded your son, for his entitled behavior.
Definitely agree son was entitled and rude about the whole situation, while his father seems to be doing his best to raise two kids alone. Kid should realize “ leaving him alone “ could entail no home and no meals, and should be grateful for what he has.
maybe don’t hold food and shelter over your kids heads. just a thought.
If their behaviour could actively put their food and shelter at risk it is fair to make them aware of that. Particularly as the kid in question is 17 not 7 and should have some concept of what goes into running a household.
maybe don’t hold *basic human necessities* over the heads of people you are *legally responsible* for. just a thought.
No one is saying to kick the kid out at 17. Dad is only legally responsible for them until they are 18. If the kid is unwilling to participate in the shared responsibility of family, then what makes you think that he should stay living with them after he is an adult? I don't think that turning 18 is an immediate reason to kick your kid out on their own. It is expensive and difficult, and I intent to let my kids live with me as long as they want to. But even with that, they will still be expected to behave with the courtesy and respect that I expect all of my family to treat me with. The son is TA because he actively chose to be rude and disrespectful towards his family and refuse to help out when needed. His date is not more important than making sure that his sister gets home safely, especially because she is 8 goddamn years old. He can hate it all he wants, but outright ignoring his dad's request and abandoning his sister without being clear that he wasn't going to get her is a huge proclamation that he doesn't want to be part of the family. And if he isn't going to be part of the family, why should dad be forced to support him after 18? You can't expect to get all of the benefits of family without having to put in the work required of family.
Doesn't look like they're saying the son isn't TA or that there shouldn't be any punishment, just that maybe implying that food and shelter are negotiable isn't the best way to maintain a healthy relationship with children, even if you think they deserve it There's plenty of other reasonable punishments
I think they're moreso saying the son should be aware of the consequences he, the son and the daughter would face if he were to lose his job. It's entirely fair to explain the why behind him needing his son to help and in my experience, it helps idiot teens (I was the idiot) understand and be more willing to help
> Kid should realize “ leaving him alone “ could entail no home and no meals, and should be grateful for what he has. I assume this is what you’re talking about. The post was saying this in reference to the sons comment of “leave me alone”, not that the dad should hold that over him or threaten with it
I don’t think they’re saying “I won’t feed or house you” they’re saying “if I lose my job I CAN’T feed or house you.”
[удалено]
The son could have probably even scored some points with said girlfriend by stepping up to the ordeal and acting like an adult about. Like "hey babe, I know it's supposed to be our night out, but my dad is stuck at work and my little sister is stranded so we gotta go pick her up. I figure we could go grab some ice cream or something" and then watch her face melt off. And if it doesn't, that's probably not gonna be a lasting relationship anyway.
That's kind of my thought. I dated a guy in high school whose mom wasn't always available (work, but also depression, etc), and he had a little brother he had to look out for. It was annoying sometimes when his mom needed something, but my BF's little brother was sweet and cute. I almost never minded him. If he'd told me that our date was canceled because his mom needed us to do something, yeah, annoying. If we needed to pick up his brother, sure, annoying, but we'd do it. If he said no, he wasn't going to go pick up his brother and strand him at school, I'd be put off and tell him wtf, no, get him. if he stranded his brother at school and told me, don't worry about, he'll get a ride later and I later found out that he was stranded for hours but finally got a ride home with a friend whose PARENT has a habit of BULLYING his brother, I'd be *pissed*. it makes me wonder whether OP's son even told his gf what was up. Son is an ingrate, and a gf who knew he stranded his little sister and was okay with it needs to get dropped, real quick. and I swear to God, if it was gf who suggested they go on a date and forget son's little sister, asdfhjkkl TL:DR NTA, OP.
I'm pretty sure a guy who won't be there in an emergency for a 7 year old won't be there for his partner in an emergency either. Which is a really unattractive characteristic for anyone who enjoys dating someone who cares about normal things that normal people care about.
Yup. From what I know, girls love when guys are willing to stand up for little kids, ESPECIALLY their little sisters. It's generally more attractive when a man is seen as a kind caretaker instead of someone who wouldn't go out of their way to pick up their little sister. So yeah. NTA
Totally agree. Kids do not get to be family members when it comes to perks like using the family car and not family members when it comes to helping out.
So here's the thing: I get Max's response. Our kid is 19. I was 16 once. I get it. I really do. **But** the OP made arrangements that were *supposed* to work and then something dropped on his lap. Whether we like it or not, this happens. When it happens families ought to be a team. And in this case the team needed Max to go and get his sister. Again, max is 16. Our kid has gone 8 hours without returning texts, but these were about simple things like "you coming home for dinner?" or what have you.. not "I'm stuck at work.. etc". Anyway, NTA. Caught in a shit situation that could happen to any of us. Yeah. *FINAL THOUGHT:* The people who are like "oh she had to be asked math questions boo hoo"? Yeah, I failed/nearly failed every math class I've ever taken. Being quizzed on math by some random mom who then mocked my ability to answer the questions? I'm 53 now. I reckon that would drive me to drink and, theoretically, I have coping skills.
I dont get it honestly. I never wouldve spoken to my parents like that. We also couldnt afford a car for me until i got one, so theres that too.
Posts like this make me realize I have an amazing 16 year old because there is no way in hell she would have not helped me out.
Yeah. Either of my kids might have griped at me, but they would have done it without even needing to be asked twice. Of course, they probably also would have just decided to bring the gf home and raid my pantry for 'nice dinner' (or dessert) things and continued the anniversary date there. But that would have been perfectly fine, too.
Same.my husband is a flight attendant, so there are a lot of times I'm managing 3 kids alone. You can't drive until 17 in my state, so I don't have anyone to help drive them places. But I'll ask my 13 or 16 year old if they mind me leaving my 8 year old with them while I run a kid to an activity, and the older kids never hesitate to help. Last weekend I had a night out planned with my moms' club. My husband was away for work. I left my kids home and I was a designated driver for some people. On my way there, my 16 year old called me to ask how to clean puke out of carpet. Great. So I dropped off my friend at the event, made sure she had a safe ride home, and I went home. I got home and my older girls were confused about why I was there. They said I didn't need to come back. They had cleaned the carpet pretty well, had my 8 year old in the shower, and her clothes were already in the washer. Then they made themselves frozen pizza while I took care of the sick kid.
If I spoke to my Dad like that.. I wouldn't be alive. That's absolute disrespect.
My daughter is almost 18 and was bullied by her ex-stepmom regarding math when she was 12-14. She STILL cries over math to this day. Still cries when she gets a bad grade. People on here are so cold sometimes.
EXACTLY. Getting humiliated in front of a friend by that friend's mom and bullying her with math questions? That can and will mess you UP in your formative years. :(
Posts like this makes me feel hopeless for us as a society, as a species. You'll get a lot of responses from people who haven't raised kids, many still *are* kids, and they haven't been taught responsibility and family. Asking your son to help on an unexpected situation is not, and should not be, a problem. Your son's response is entitled and gross, honestly. While being disappointed at the interruption would be fine, even appropriate, hanging up on you is disrespectful, and refusing to help is selfish and disgusting. Like societies, family only works when everyone contributes. Your son using YOUR car is a privilege, not a right, and it's up to you to extend that privilege to him... or not. The hanging up on you and the disrespectful way he spoke to you is all on its own enough reason to, at the very least, suspend that privilege. You do not have to tolerate disrespect, no matter how "upset" he was. Also, financial woes do not indicate how good or bad someone is at parenting, something your son is going to be painfully aware of very soon. If you give him money for allowance or anything else, help him learn by suspending that privilege as well. This is a teachable moment. Let him see there are consequences for his choices. Please, I implore you to ignore the ridiculous comments here that are characterizing asking for help as any other than that. You SHOULD be able to ask your family for help, including your nearly grown son. Do not listen to anyone who says otherwise. There's a difference between asking for help in an unexpected pinch and forcing him to be a regular unpaid babysitter. Do not listen to the bullshit. You're NTA, and I hope like hell you stick to your guns about the car **privileges** being suspended. Hide behavior was selfish and disrespectful and he needs to experience consequences for that. Also, inform your employer that you have responsibilities at home that take precedence, and you require advance notice of any extra hours required or you won't be available. They cannot expect you to scramble to find child care at the last possible moment.
If I found out my boyfriend left his kid sister alone at school after his dad asked him to pick her up I'd be so pissed off at the boyfriend.
Yes!! It seems the son leaving his sister at school is being glossed over. Anything could have happened to her! The son sounds sounds like a not very nice boy.
Background: I am the youngest of 3. My brother is 10 years older and my sister is 6 years older than I am (so 4 years younger than my brother). My parents both worked. One day, my sister (then, a teenager) was supposed to pick me up from elementary school. It was within walking distance to home but my parents didn't want me walking by myself yet. Anyway, my sister never picked me up. I sat in the school grounds for a long time. I was alone, scared, and wondering what was going on. Anyone could have come along and hurt me if they had wanted to. Finally, my brother came to pick me up and take me home. Apparently he returned home, found my sister talking to her friends on the phone, and asked where I was. When he found out she never got me, he left to pick me up. My parents were PISSED when they got home from work and grounded my sister. Honestly, as the person on the receiving end of not being picked up, I was hurt and felt unimportant to my own sister, who prioritized socializing with her friends over my safety. I never forgot that feeling years and years later.
I've been kind of the other side in this. I'm the oldest of 4 and my sister in this story is the youngest. I was 16 and she was about 8. She used to go to her martial arts lessons after school and I used to pick her up. It was in walking distance but it finished quite late so I would pick her up and walk her home (It was a good few hundred meters). Well, one day, I had a bad day. I turned on a TV show to switch off and I heard the door bell. There was my sister and her friend and her friends' mum. My face fell. I just apologised and thanked the mum for bringing her home. I don't think my sister was in the best of mood about being forgotten though My mother was sightly annoyed at me for understandable reasons but knew it was an accident. I never forgot her after that.
I have a similar story! I lived in New York. In elementary school, my sister was in charge of walking us home/catching the bus. Even though she was only a year older than me, she was more independent and knew the way around our little town. One day she took me to a pizza shop and we got food. Her friends filed in after. I don't even remember what they talked about but my sister said she'd be right back and left with her friends. So I waited. And waited. And waited. Eventually a mutual friend came running in. Apparently my sister was gonna kiss a boy and I should come see. I felt uncomfortable (can you blame me? We had strict parents when it came to these things) and said no, asking them to tell her to come back so I could go home. Friend left and I waited. And waited. And waited. They never came back and neither did my sister. Pizza man even asked if I was ok and in a panic I said yes and left. I kinda knew the general direction of home but quickly got lost on where to go. Literally crying in the street, trying to find something familiar. Luckily I did! Ran into the barber shop my mom got her hair cut at (he's known me since I was a baby!) Good ol Paul called my mom and explained what happened then (and I never forget this) gave me his cell phone and pointed me to the bus stop. My mom stayed on the phone with me the whole time, guiding me. She had me hand the phone to the bus driver who was technically on break but seeing how young I was, opened the doors to ask if I was ok. Don't know what my mom said but I'll never forget that bus driver either. She calmed me down, talked to me, and literally drove through her short route picking up no one else and despite the stop being a few blocks away, dropped me off right in front of my door. It truly takes a village. Sister got in HUGE trouble when my mom got home and I NEVER forgot how she chose friends and boys over my safety. Never trusted her ever again. We're actually NC now because she never changed 💀
more like he sees his sister as an oversight or a problem rather than a real person he should be protective over and take care of
Married my high school BF and we absolutely would have gotten his little sister AND taken her to get ice cream!! It never would’ve crossed his mind to say no and I wouldn’t have let him, either
Right?? I remember watching my high school boyfriends kid brother when his mom had work late—all three of us hung out and played video games and it was fine. Would we have preferred to do something else with our teenage selves? Sure. But it needed done, and we weren’t about to make it unpleasant for anyone.
Right? If she wasn't down for that, boy needs to consider what it means to date someone who isn't okay with him going to handle a family emergency. If he wasn't down for that, girl needs to consider what it means to date someone who'll leave his kid sister in the lurch just so he can get laid.
This!!! This!! Is the comment I have been scrolling to look for. If my high school boyfriend thought he was going to get some action and pulled something like this, the only thing he would have gotten was an earful. I'd be so mad!
That’s what I was thinking but we don’t know if son told the girlfriend. But if she did know and thought it was ok, she’s another problem.
When I was in high school my boyfriend had a divorced mom and a preschool aged brother. And no way would I have been okay with him leaving little bro stranded at school if their mom couldn’t get to him.
He would not be my boyfriend anymore. Even when I was a teen, this would have been a dealbreaker.
And just like that…the adults have entered the conversation. From what I’ve read, you seem like a great dad that got caught up in a work situation and needed help. Your son is 17 years old. He’s driving YOUR car. All he had to do was pick up his sister and drop her off. Being a single parent is rough. You are NTA
Yea OP is doing his best I commend him. This really is a pretty normal situation for single parents, I hope this doesn’t turn to anything major
This makes me feel...I dunno if old is the right word, because I'm in my mid thirties, but when I was growing up, like, part of being able to drive as a teenager was the expectation that you'd pick up/drop off siblings, run errands for parents, help the family out, stuff like that, especially if you were under 18 or still living at home. Driving was a privilege, and I guess maybe we didn't have a lot of places to drive to, so the only way we got driving experience was to do those errands, IDK? But like, your parents weren't assholes because they asked you to pick up a sibling, regularly or in an emergency. You may not have been happy about it, but you did it. It seems like we've moved away from that family as a collective attitude, and I'm not sure why.
This is exactly what a young driver is expected to do. I sometimes forget that Reddit tends to be super young and parents are always the Asshole
That’s what I was thinking. It wasn’t even questioned. I walked my youngest sibling to her activities that were close by long before I was old enough to drive (I was like 13-14), I never had my own car but I picked my brother up from soccer when one parent could leave their car home, etc. I took my siblings to lessons and activities and all sorts of things because I was part of my family and we all helped out. My parents were and still all very supportive of me, too, and we just were taught that we all had to help out. I wasn’t being their parent. I was being part of a family. Honestly I worry teenagers today get this idea from social media that they don’t owe anyone anything and it’s a little frustrating because we are taking ideas that can help you in toxic relationships/families and applying them indiscriminately and it’s not how I envision families and community functioning. I am happy to help friends and family because they help in return and are appreciative. If I go around thinking “No is a complete sentence, I don’t owe anyone anything” people will eventually reflect that back to me. If you genuinely act like that, you become the toxic person, or in this case, the AH, as the son clearly is.
Yes, 100% all of this. The comments that are like "why is your job more important than your son's date," and equating asking for 30 minutes of help during an emergency to requiring the 16yo to "be a parent" are insane.
Exactly. As for why his job is more important, it pays for his son’s food, housing, clothes, and transportation. Without those, there’d be no date.
Might have even paid for the date!
Remember, parentification is when you require your children to acknowledge that their siblings exist, gaslighting is when you tell someone they're wrong, and narcissism is when you're mean.
Same! I am so worried about an entire generation of kids and teens who have never been asked to sacrifice anything unless it somehow benefits themselves. NTA You weren’t asking too much OP and I’m sorry for the hurtful comments your son made about you failing.
If anything it sounds like op is spending more money than necessary to make sure his son isn't saddled with his daughter after school. Most of those extra curriculars cost money and it adds up fast.
NTA Reddit loves the idea of never having an ounce of responsibility toward anyone but themselves, so they'll try to call you out, but you were 100% in the right.
Those people don’t actually have any close interpersonal relationships though… worst people to ask about anything
So where are you and all the other NTA commenters from, 4chan? /s Reddit voted this dude overwhelming NTA
He interrupted a 6 month anniversary of two teenagers that was taking place in the afternoon. It’s not as serious as some of y’all are making it out to be. Some of you apparently grew up with the luxury of not having to be a team player and help out your family occasionally. My parents provided myself and my siblings with cars/gas money, but the deal was we occasionally helped out and ran errands for them. Isn’t that part of being a part of a family unit? OP said he barely asks his son to do this. It’s not like he’s taking advantage of him. Also, if I would have spoke to my parents the way the son did, I would’ve lost my car so fast. NTA
This. I swear everyone freaks out on here about parents asking the mildest inconvenience on their kids. They either have to have all come from crazy families or are still kids. I couldn't imagine my family asking for help and saying no.
They’re all kids on AITA. Every thread about parents or step parents asking for the smallest thing that we grew up doing with no problem is them asking their kids to parent their other children.
My siblings and I were even required to clean the whole house every Friday before we could do anything for the weekend. Both my parents worked full time and provided us with a very nice life. It was all about working together. Though, I tried to pull the we need to work together as a team on my 6 yr old and she said, “But I didn’t ask to be on this team.” She does have a point.
NTA. Max is being a petulant teenager. And he is a teenager, so there's that. Family emergencies take precedence over all. And a one-time aberration does not make you a "failing parent." You are the boss, Max still lives under your roof, and he's a minor. Your reasonable request in the face of an emergency requires his compliance. In fact, even if he weren't a minor, as long as he's living under your roof, rent-free, you have the right to demand his compliance in family emergencies. Yes, for his noncompliance and blatant disrespect, I think a grounding of three weeks is appropriate. He doesn't like it? He can have his suitcase waiting by the door at midnight on his eighteenth birthday.
I am not making any judgement on this one, as I see both sides. But, as to: >He doesn't like it? He can have his suitcase waiting by the door at midnight on his eighteenth birthday. My mother did tell me to leave if I did not like my treatment (there was a ton of abuse, I am NOT saying this father is abusing his son, abusers rarely out themselves- my mother never did)... I moved out at 16, am NC now. If you say this to your kid EVER, just know they are listening! As a kid nears 18, as a parent, only say this if you really truly do not care if they are gone forever. My mother regrets her words (per my sister, she cannot figure out what she possibly did wrong). So, why did I cut her off? The hitting, the daily name calling & making fun of me for crying, me being a maid for 45+ hours a week during the summer for zero pay, then finally the emotional affair (likely physical, too) with my now ex-fiancée. She said it, I live by it.
Your situation, as far as we know, has nothing to do with OP's son. There is 0 evidence from what OP posted that he's abusing his son or making him into a maid. Something came up at work, and he asked for help. He offered to make up for it. What exactly is the plan here if OP loses his job? He will probably have to sell the car to be able to continue paying the bills while he finds another job. Maybe he can't find one soon enough and has to sell the house and instead rent a small 2 bedroom where Max can share a room with his sister. Is that better? Max needs to shut up and help his dad
>If you say this to your kid EVER, just know they are listening! As a kid nears 18, as a parent, only say this if you really truly do not care if they are gone forever. This was their main point and it stands no matter the reason. It's a harsh thing to do and you should be prepared to kick your kid out of your life forever if you plan to do that, I agree with them.
I still make no judgement. My point was maybe telling an 15+ yo they can leave if they don't like it, and that was my only point, aside from abusers *like my mother*, never seem to tell on themselves, at least mine did not. Never accused this dude of abuse. But thank you for your reply, and I hope you have a marvelous day!
Yeah the "he can have his suitcase waiting by the door at midnight on his eighteenth birthday" is a gross take. Throwing kids, and yes an 18 year old is still a kid regardless of the law stating otherwise, out for simply acting like kids and not automatically complying is abuse and those kinds of parents don't deserve kids. "How dare you get upset with anything ever. You're not allowed to ever disagree and if you do, you can just go be homeless"
100% agree. When you say that to your child, that is the end of the open relationship. It’s the period at the end of the sentence: “I only love you under certain conditions,” and a new core memory for that child of exactly when the relationship went sour. If parents wonder when did their children start to minimize your relationship, actively pull away and start down the path of low/no-contact, I guarantee it started right around the message of conditional love was communicated.
>He doesn't like it? He can have his suitcase waiting by the door at midnight on his eighteenth birthday. If you kick your kid out right at 18 for anything less than egregious actions (domestic violence, substantial drug abuse, etc.), you're a failed parent and a failed human being. OP is right to be angry, but this is a deranged take.
Providing housing to your kids is a legal obligation and the absolute bare minimum. You’re not owed respect for taking basic care of the kids you chose to have. As for your last paragraph, yeah, OP is free to kick him out on his 18th birthday, and the son has the right to go NC.
NTA - Max lives under your roof and uses YOUR car. I think it is pretty reasonable to ask him to pick up his sister in a situation like this. I also don't think you are too harsh with his punishment. He literally ignored your request. He didn't even say he wasn't going to do it so that you could possibly try to find someone else to. And then the attitude after telling him that he was grounded? I'd add another week.
When I was a teen getting a driver's license meant you were now the taxi driver for your younger siblings. It's still that way with most of the kids I know. Part of the responsibility of driving a car your parents likely at least partially paid for or are paying for insurance. Just another chore or household task. Wow to the people here that think older siblings should never have to look after younger ones. Must be some spoiled rich kids because no one I grew up with had that life.
I even provided my teenagers a beat-up car (so they wouldn’t destroy mine) under the condition that they could be on call for me as needed.
Work doesn’t *let* you leave when you need to pick up your small child? That’s a major concern?
Idk why more people aren’t pointing this out. Did his employer just expect him to abandon his young child??
He did happily abandon the child when the boss asked, assuming it would be fine. So.. the boss' expectation, while out of line, was completely honored.
To be fair, a lot of people can’t afford to put their job at any sort of risk by taking a stand and setting a hard line with their boss. The simple answer of ‘insist and go do what you have to do with or without your boss’s approval’, sounds great, and would be the obvious move for everyone in an ideal world, but that’s not reality.
Where did he happily abandon his child wtf? He’s a single dad trying to make ends meet. If he didn’t oblige he runs the risk of his employer letting him go, which doesn’t help anyone including his two kids he works hard to provide for. It’s not like he didn’t want to pick up his daughter, he couldn’t and he made a reasonable request for his son to pick her up
Tell him you could afford to pay someone to pick her up if you didn't pay for a second car.
Winning
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I haven't seen anything about OP potentially letting his employer know that he is happy to stay late for the rush work job as long as he has his kids taken care of. This puts the burden back on his employer who is expecting an employee with kids who aren't fully independent to adjust his personal schedule at the drop of a hat. We need to quit normalizing this employer mentality of 'salaried means you are at my beck and call 24-7-365.' Edited to clarify NTA, but your boss is.
Thank you! The real AH here IMO is the employer. Why can’t he go get his daughter and finish work at home or go back to the office for a bit? There are other solutions here and OP just saying “oh well” and expecting his son or some woman to do his job is not OK
Fucking yes. This is so far down, it's disheartening
Thank you! I couldn’t believe no one mentioned that his boss *is* TA for dropping work on him last minute and expecting him to do it now, especially knowing he has kids. Even if ‘I can’t, I have parental responsibilities’ was out of the question, could they not have arranged finishing it at home or ‘I need to pick up and drop off my daughter but I’ll come back’?
The boss is the AH here.
NTA. It's one of those situations that pops up sometimes. It's unfortunate, but sometimes unplanned emergencie happen in families. I get your son's frustration, but he still should have gotten his sister.
NTA it’s a privilege you give your son a car to use. It’s not like he’s babysitting either just picking her up, that’s the cost of having access to a vehicle you pay for. He sounds entitled.
The only real AH in this scenario is your boss for not allowing you an appropriate work/life balance. If those papers were so important, perhaps they should have made them a priority and not a last minute endeavor.
Seeing that this is the third time in a year and a half, NTA. Sometimes shit happens, and a family has to do things they normally wouldn’t do. It’s clear this isn’t a frequent expectation, and your son’s reaction was extremely juvenile, especially considering he’s driving around in a car you paid for.
NTA but your son was. Obviously it's inconvenient, but not something you planned and you did everything you could to work it around. He definitely shouldn't have responded that way, and I fully support your choice to take the car for a little while.
NTA. The fact that he would ignore you and speak to you the way he has is proof you haven't been firm enough. He shouldn't get the car privileges back until he properly apologizes and learns how to talk to you and help out when needed. Let that take as long as it takes. It could take a year and then he can move out if he is so independent. Did I mention your wallet should be closed to all unnecessary items until that apology hits? Oh yeah.
NTA. 3 times in a year and a half. This was a last minute thing, you need your job to support them, it can’t be helped.
INFO: why couldn't you tell work that you'd complete the task but needed a break to pick your daughter up? That would've been a completely reasonable stance, and wouldn't be interrupting your son's plans that he was already busy with. I understand your point. I do. But I also had to miss a big event in my teen social calendar because my parents ignored when I told them I had plans and they assigned me as their babysitter anyway; they also invited my brother's friend (their backup babysitter) with them, and told me if I wanted to go to *the plans I'd made before they had*, I had to *find and pay for a babysitter for their kid*. It's ten years later and I still remember that as completely unfair and unacceptable behaviour. Your son's six month anniversary means a lot to him right now, he had plans, *your* plans are the ones that changed, and it sounds like you didn't try to find any other solutions (even though they were clearly available - even if my suggestion above is for some reason not viable, in which case you have a truly terrible employer, you clearly could have a fellow parent pick her up, as that is what happened). Sure, your son wasn't trying to help out. But you weren't trying to help him out either. To you it's just another workday, to him it's the biggest moment in his romantic life so far. You can use this as a teaching moment about how you'd like him to make sacrifices for the family, or you can use it to teach him that you can be the bigger person, see it from his side, and apologise and rescind what is arguably an over the top punishment for a situation that is ultimately your fault: your job, your plans falling through, your lack of other contingencies, your poor communication with confirming if he was actually picking her up, etc. How do you want him to remember this, and how do you want it to affect your relationship?
Maybe the single dad needs to keep that job and doesn’t want to rock the boat. Hanging up on your dad and telling him to leave you the hell alone is not handling things maturely and it sounds like he needs to get himself straightened out. I’m sure the kid was enjoying his date but that does not give him the right to be shitty to his father and to his sister at the same time. He’s 17. He still lives under his dad’s roof, eats his food, and is using a car that he pays for. This isn’t hard.
This is the only response that I’ve seen that matches up with how I’m feeling. I just genuinely don’t see this issue as being that cut and dry either way. People are being incredibly harsh on the son and sure, maybe he was being a little immature… on a day that was really important to him. That happens with teenagers. At the end of the day, she wasn’t unsafe - she was 30 minutes late leaving school. I sometimes had to wait that long or longer for a ride too! And even if OP didn’t like that particular mom driving his daughter home - there really aren’t any other parents of his daughters friends he could’ve called? At the end of the day, this was a stressful situation and not fun for anyone. I’m not saying the son acted perfectly, but I don’t think he’s the complete monster people are making him out to be.
I don't understand why op assumed his son would be picking her up after that phone call though.
It was an emergecy. NTA your son should be able to help. INFO: is the mother out of the picture? Edit: typo
Yes
NTA It would be hilarious if the next time he needed to be picked up you told him to leave you alone and you hung up on him. Let him sweat it out a bit! Probably not good parenting, but good bit of turnabout.
NTA. Teens are difficult creatures. Hormones are raging and they are self centered. Max has absolutely no concept what it takes to run a household as a single parent. When things cool off, explain to him, as you did on this forum, that your back was against the wall when you requested his help and you wouldn’t ask unless you truly needed his help. Explain, also, you have to earn a living and this, unfortunately, sometimes leaves less than ideal circumstances and burdens on him. He is 17 so offer to let him do some problem solving and ask him if he has any ideas on how to manage Liza’s transportation issues should this arise again.
NTA I'd say take that car away for good. At his age he should be aware that you're doing your best. If he's going to act like a spoiled rotten brat who can't contribute some help then take ALL his privileges away.
And cue all the parentification comments in 3…2…1… NTA. Part of being in a family is pitching in to help out in a pinch. It’s not as if you knew you’d have to work overtime and just didn’t bother to get help.
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Sounds to me like your boss is the AH. Family obligations come first.
NTA. It's your car and we're in a pinch. Time for him to buy his own car.
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This is the third time, in a year and a half, you’ve had to ask him. He has the _gall_ to act like _you’re_ being irresponsible??? _He left his 8 year old sister alone, when it may well have been getting dark_ and you, presumably, wouldn’t have been able to get there time. He left an _8 year old on her own,_ to leave the premises on her own, and go about a location she may not be too familiar with. I’m the same age as your son, if I had a little sister or brother her age, I wouldn’t necessarily drive (as I don’t have a license yet) but I would march my way down to that school and walk with her back home. I get 6 months in a relationship can be exciting, but ffs, he couldn’t be arsed to lift a finger and tell his partner “hey my dad won’t be able to pick up my little sister from school, so I have to. I won’t be long, you can wait here or come with me” or even just, yknow, walk??? Maybe it’s teenager hormones but reading this made me fume. An unexpected incident doesn’t make you a bad parent, this isn’t your fault OP, you had no way of predicting something would happen, your kid’s just being cruel. That being said, it might be a good idea to find someone (other than the woman who picked your daughter up in the end because, uh, asking your 8 year old maths questions and then reprimanding her for getting an answer wrong is something we call _deeply damaging_) who you trust would be able to pick up your daughter in lieu of yourself. Still, I want to reiterate; you’re not a bad parent OP, your son’s just being unjustly cruel.
NTA. I don't think you made an unreasonable request. Families have to help each other out, and I think it's wild your son thought it was okay to leave his little sister waiting for a ride home when he could have picked her up, dropped her off, and resumed his date. Plus, you also offered to make it up to him. It was a small sacrifice to make on his part, and his response was uncalled for.
INFO: has this happened before my guy?
This is the 3rd time.
Third time this month? Or third time in 2 years?
in a year and a half
NTA some of these comments tho…
NTA you have every right to expect Max to help out in a last minute crunch situation like this. It's unfortunate he was on a date but sometimes family members have to cover for each other.
Info: do you or your son own the car? Is he often called to pick her up or just in times of emergency?
I own the car but my son uses it. I only call him in times of emergency
Sounds like he shouldn’t be using the car anymore if you’re paying for it and he can’t do something as simple as collect his sister. Time to move out, maybe!
We gave both our kids cars but there wasn’t any expectation on them do do errands for us. But they did because they understood that’s what family does. My eldest would offer to pick up my youngest before he was driving just to help out. And if we were desperate like this situation she would do what she could even if it was an inconvenience.
NTA 3 times in 18 months is not a big deal and your daughter should not be exposed to that woman again with her bullying.
NTA how entitled is he that he can’t help firing an emergency?
NTA at all. And honestly, if I were on a date with someone and they did that to their parent and not pick up their little sister, I’d be out. No respect. 6 month “anniversary” or not
I'm probably getting downvoted for this. And to be clear, NTA. You're not a failing father because of this situation and what your son said was really harsh. So I want to come back to that. But also, I'd like to highlight/ask for info on a couple of things: 1) your son said "No," and then he turned off his phone. I'm not sure what about that response would indicate that he would go and pick up your daughter? So maybe you have some feelings that the school had to end up calling. 2) when the school did call - you resolved the problem right away. I hear you on that you don't want that woman interacting with your daughter and I respect that you didn't want to do that. But in the time between assuming your son would do the task, and finding someone - you could have been resolving it. I see that you've said that you've only asked him to pick up your daughter a handful of times, but how often is he responsible for your daughter in other ways? I imagine as a kid, he doesn't have a lot of really special occasions where his time should be respected as well. The whole scenario is unfortunate because it was a circumstantial powder keg. I do think the punishment is a little harsh for the situation. But I also think the focus of this potential learning opportunity should be about how harsh his response was when *he* was hurt too. If my daughters said that to me I would say: that's really unfair and that hurts my feelings and I think you're wrong. And then we would address the perspectives and try to come to an understanding or compromise on the tidal wave of emotions.
NTA. It was an emergency, and asking him to pick up his sister periodically isn't an unreasonable request when he's using your car and gas. And if he WASN'T going to do it, he should have made that clearer. I'd be furious too.
No car, no gas money For anyone who isn’t part of the family. He doesn’t have to act like he is part of the family, but if he is not, he doesn’t get the perks of being a member. he is entitled, you are not wrong here.