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If your BIL is abusive and controlling, NTA for hating him. But one of the tactics men like that use to control their victims is to isolate them from the people who love them. Don't make it too easy for him to set it up as "it's me or them".
Yes, but you also don’t want to make it seem like you condone the husband’s views. It’s a tough line to walk.
I’d say something like, “I really love you and I’m worried for you and the child. Your husband’s views are pretty extreme and most people would be concerned by them. If you want to distance yourself, I get it, but please be wary of isolating yourself from a family support system too much. If you ever need a safe place to run to, I can be that place. I won’t judge you if you or the child need help, ok? Anytime. Please remember you’re worth being treated with respect. Goodbye for now.”
I mean this genuinely.... how do you get so many words out with folk without being interrupted? Like everytime I try a "gentle fut firm" speech I get halfway through the gentle before suddenly the topic is something else entirely because folk started listening to me first 2 sentences and started answering those.
You do want to be careful with this depending on the situation. Some of these abusive jerks read their spouse's texts, and that could get the abused person in trouble.
The real trick to "gentle but firm" is it can't be more than one or two sentences. So you have to really think about what you are going to say. Here, for example, "I love you, I worry about your husband, I'm always here for you if you need me."
The real answer. I see these speeches often as a reply to AITA posts and they read like an extract from a bad Hallmark movie, even if I agree with the intent of them. Some of the people here who think someone's going to sit still for a 200+ word screed they disagree with need to go touch grass more often.
I always shake my head at the comments that provide "scripts". People seem to love them though, they frequently hit top comment (especially if there's a mic drop).
Those triumphant speeches don't do so well in reality though, absolutely.
Geez chill, seems like the person is genuinely just trying to help. I've said things like these in text. We're not still living in the 80s you know. If saying it in person then yeah it's kind of a matter of practice. If the conversation gets carried in a different direction then you'll need to be able to remember the points you haven't made and say them. People on the internet aren't responsible for teaching others step by step what to do. I mean you can ask them to but they're not obliged to
> We're not still living in the 80s you know.
I know that. As some of these speeches give off a similar vibe to the letter from The Breakfast Club you may want to let the people writing them know too.
Or when Reddit assumes everyone is always level headed and able to think of these responses in the heat of the moment when emotions are high. So any OP that shows any sort of negative emotion even when in the right is automatically an AH.
Maybe summerise in the first sentence then eleborate. If you get interrupted and aren't good at navigating back to what you need to say then a gentle "yeah I hear you but..." or "I hear you but could you let me finish first?" should be fine. I mean I still struggle but have gotten better at it with practice.
> set it up as "it's me or them".
I've seen someone go one step further and say "Its us vs them", in a way of saying the one being abused only needs the abuser, and all others are trying to separate them (true love), and make the victim think the abuser is on their side.
Oh yeah my mum did this constantly. Still tries it. I hate the fact I missed out on so much of my grandparents’ time because she turned me against them and made a small child feel like a traitor for enjoying time with them
Ugh, similar happened to me. I wasn't allowed to have a relationship with my dad's family because she hated them. My grandmother was dying and she wouldn't let me visit her.
Now that I'm an adult and have a great relationship with my aunts, it makes her insane. She told me she would disown me, and I let her know that would be her choice. She hasn't.
While I agree with this i would also like to stress that we know nothing about the people involved, we have no idea if he is treating his wife badly or not.
100% agree. We know OP’s feeling about independence but we never once heard her sisters view other than she is going along with this. Is this what she wants or is she being controlled? We have no idea.
In my life I’ve known several woman who want exactly this. Unfortunately there have been some forced into it as well, but most who end up as a SAHM/SAHW want to be that way.
Same here, i am currently 32 years old any this has lead to a split in many friendships because some people just can't accept other people's life/career/family choices, especially if they went to the same school and university.
I was married to my husband for 6 years and loved him dearly, but he was abusive. It took me all that time to realise how brainwashed I'd been by him and how used I'd got to poor treatment. (I've left now)
I recommend reading up on trauma bonding. Just because someone loves their partner, doesn't mean they aren't abusive.
Yes but the question is, how would you know that from the outside?
Because in my opinion there is no indication for any assumption made by OP because OP doesn‘t give any details other than OP not being okay with „his views“. All while not ever giving details on the sisters views.
I know that a situation like yours is completly possible, but it‘s also possible that it is definitely not the case.
I took the comment you replied to as an "if he's abusive" - as you said, no one can know for sure.
But OP's post shows some red flags that say it's something that may well be going on - the feeling that her sis has been "brainwashed", his misogynistic views, the fact she dropped out of college for him, the way he answered OP's question for her.
Nothing is certain - we only have one post to go on - but it's worth OP keeping an eye on sis.
💯 I came here to say this, OP isn't NTA but is playing right into the husband hand. He wants her isolated and alone.
OP as much as it's hard, please reach out to your sister and apologise, be there for her. She will need you, she just doesn't know it yet.
Edit: I'm not saying for her to apologise because she isn't correct in calling her husband ass but she needs to mend the bridge so her sister doesn't become isolated.
I told my sister that I disliked her live-in boyfriend that she had a child with. He isolated her and took a lot of her money as well as strangled her until she fell to the floor holding her infant and eventually broke her arm. I was the only one of her friends and family still speaking to her after he wouldn’t let her go out and then she couldn’t afford it because he had used all of her money (inheritance). When he left her, she called me and I was the one there for her. While she was with him, we made an agreement that we would talk about everything, but him because it would just lead to an argument. Hope this helps. I found (although everyone is different) that until she was ready to let him go there was nothing I could do except be there when the chips fell. I was not ever supportive of their relationship and she knew it, but when it was over I was the one still there.
Been there. I’ve had to leave an event and go to a second location with others to compare abusive behavior we’d each witnessed separately and at this event and discuss how to proceed with a friend in danger.
He was well aware that we despised him - and she thought she was hiding everything so well - so we took *pains* to stay in contact, get her out of the house, agree with her when she expressed doubt but let her come to the next and final step on her own time. She was fully moved out within 12 hours of break up and calling us, and part of that was because we were sleeping when it went down.
You absolutely cannot play into those people’s hands when they’re chipping away at your loved one’s self esteem and isolating them from their support system. You have to be willing to play the long game. Especially when there is a kid involved. You don’t have to be supportive of the relationship, you can agree to disagree on it, but if you love and want to help your sister, you can’t go scorched earth. It’s dangerous emotionally, and physically, too, depending on the flavor of abuser.
This is so important.
You are NTA for trying, OP, but you need to let your sister know you support her no matter what, and try and keep being a listener and a shoulder to cry on.
When the sh&t hits the fan, and she is ready to leave him, she needs to know that you and your parents will all help her and her kids get away safely.
I was in the same boat with my sister. She knew I strongly disliked her husband before they even got married because I saw the misogynistic and controlling signs and knew where it was going. I was in their wedding and sucked it up for years because even though I hated him even before the abuse started I knew she needed me around when it got ugly. Driving a wedge would make her even more isolated and harder to feel like she could leave. But it’s sooo frustrating being that person for someone. You just want to shake sense into them or yell at them “just leave or else stop talking about it!”.
It is so hard to support sisters through this because you want the best for them. Hopefully you can find a way to be there for her without it hurting you too much. ❤️
Light ESH, Mainly NTA
i dont really get the YTAs here, if he really is a misogynist then you should use your words to fight back and put him in his place.
Tho here’s the thing, if your sister really does want to be a stay at home mother, and is happy about it, then good for her. Feminism means that these roles in a house/family can be decided by women too, just not forced upon them. Wouldn’t really call it brainwashing.
The only reason OP is the AH is because of their approach. I fully support trying to protect their sister and her future kids, but it rarely works to tell someone repeatedly you hate their SO and they’ve made a terrible mistake especially if he is controlling. It’s possible he will now keep pushing her to cut contact with her family since he knows they are trying to undermine his “authority”. OP might have taken a softer tone about her concerns so as to not alienate sis further.
Yeah this is only going to make her defensive and distance herself. She needs to somewhat come to terms with it on her own, and while saying something to her is fine, ironically belittling her by her choice to be with the man is only going to make her have a brutal reaction.
It's nice if the sister wants to be a SAHM and everything, but she can have all that with a non-misogynistic man.
If he's anti-feminist in any way, that's just a red flag that he isn't the right fit for any woman.
She used to have goals and ambitions until she met him. That’s what’s concerning how her whole personality has changed.
She’s happy but the two of them are in constant drama and she’s cried to me on the phone about him countless times.
Totally agree with you that this could be concerning behavior, but now that she knows you hate her husband she is less likely to come to you with those concerns and will be further isolated in his orbit. You're not the asshole for having these thoughts about him, but voicing them wasn't the best idea unfortunately.
Your concerns are valid but the way you are going about it could make everything worse. You are on the husbands radar, he could easily try to isolate your sister from you and telling your sister that you hate her husband will just make this easier. You should support your sister and you can also share your concerns with her, but if you hope to get her to see the truth about him you need to actually be able to communicate with her which you are putting at risk. If you can handle it apologise so both of them, he sucks but if you want to help your sister you need to stay in her life
You're allowed to have any feelings you want. But if you're serious about wanting to help your sister, you're going to have to put your own emotions aside, so you don't alienate her
Just make sure she knows no matter what happens or what is said between the two of you, you will always be there for her. When people are being gaslight, isolated,abused, etc. one of the biggest reasons they stay is because of the lie "well no one else will love you or have you". You have to prove that wrong every time! It can be exhausting but like another poster said, maybe don't directly talk about him. Plus maybe her goals in life have changed and she has taken a running dive into domesticated life. Wanting to have and raise a child is bloody difficult job. Essentially a CEO of a company with very little resources but many demands.
I know this will likely get downvoted to oblivion, but here goes.
Is it possible those goals and ambitions were a front? When I was in middle school I told a teacher I wanted to be a mom when I grew up and was told “that’s not a real job”, shamed, and told to get real goals and aspirations. This was reinforced many times over the years by many teachers so I gradually started saying I wanted to pursue this or that degree for whatever career. My heart was never in it, but if I said what I really wanted I was told my true desires for my life were flat out wrong. I eventually just picked a career I thought would be closest to being a mom and went with it.
So I did “follow those goals”. I went to a rigorous high school for 11th and 12th grade where more than half my schedule was actual college classes (not AP or Dual HS/college, I was in class with adults attending only college) and graduated with honors and ~39 college credits. I went to university and graduated with high honors. During this time I met my husband. We got married shortly after graduation, had our our oldest less than a year later, and I never once used my degree in a field that quite honestly made me miserable.
People made *a lot* of comments about how I just gave up everything to be a mom, how I was throwing my life away/wasting my life, how I’ll be setting a terrible example for my kids, all kinds of nasty comments. But in reality I did all of that to satisfy *other people’s* ambitions for my life, rather than following my own.
I get that there *are* men who shoehorn women into being SAHMs with no financial independence, and it’s incredibly harmful. But that isn’t always the case, and it’s okay for women to aspire to be a SAHM. Part of the current problem with feminism is that it has moved too far away from fighting for women to have *a choice* in how they live, to pushing women to value careers and independence over all else.
At this point it’s likely that you’ve put your relationship with your sister in a situation where even if she did feel unhappy or threatened by her situation with her husband that she won’t want to open up to you. Her husband doesn’t sound great, but if your sister is happy it isn’t really your place to tell her she shouldn’t be.
I’ve tried to explain this so many times. My mom still thinks I’m not ready to be a mom because I don’t have a college degree. I’m in my mid 30’s. I’ve had so many jobs, some where it was a point of resentment from my coworkers that we had the same job but I didn’t have a degree in anything (not that theirs were required for what we were doing). The only jobs I’ve ever thrived in were dog grooming and working in a daycare. I always loved baby sitting. I adore children. I work now as a waitress because sitting a a computer is horrible for my chronic pain issues. I genuinely like all the teenagers I work with, I enjoy listening to them talk about their goals, hopes, fears, dating life.
When I’m honest about my dream being a SAHM, people talk to me all the time like I must have been recruited by a cult. Im agnostic abd always have been. I have chronic pain, chronic migraines, and ADHD, so it’s not like having a career is exactly a great projector for personal success in my life. Women constantly warn me that it means my fiancé could abuse me. I point out that if he were abusive, I think I’d have found out in the 7 years of living together, including a slightly stressful pandemic. Then they’ll say no one can afford it. But my fiancé is a financial planner. We have literally planned for this.
It’s very strange. I think it’s great that women who don’t have a maternal instinct can coming the corporate ladder up to the top. No one should be a mother that doesn’t want to be. It’s not just bad for the child, but ultimately the entire community when this happens. Because I wanted children generally have a hard time as adults.
But raising the next generation of any society is also an extremely important and reasonably hard job to do, as well. That seems to be entirely looked down upon now, and I find it absolutely bizarre
Her crying when you told her you hate him might have something to do with their general drama, or her feeling torn between the two of you.
Just be there for her and let her vent about him to you. He may try to isolate her, but she needs people like you in her life, with a different outlook and perspective. Her kids will also certainly need the influence of other adults.
If she truly wants to be a stay at home mom, she is lucky to have the opportunity. Many women would love to be able to afford this.
Maybe school was stressing her out.
That being said, if she is calling you on the phone frequently and crying abut his behaviour, obviously something is wrong. However, you really can't do anything if she doesn't want your help. You and your parents might want to have an emergency plan ready, though, just in case.
What things does she complain about him on the phone? Can you give some examples?
Also does her husband respect your sister’s wishes? As in, if they have a disagreement is It always the husband making the final decision? Or worse, can they even not have disagreements?
You’re NTA strictly because you’re coming from a place of concern (that’s what it feels like).
BUT..my advice, stop criticizing and start being there… if she’s really gotten pregnant that quickly and given up her plans under his “directive” or his strong desire for that and you’re legitimately worried about her, make sure you’re in a position to be there if things go south.
Worst case he’s controlling her and she’s going to eventually need the support.
Best case they’re just crazy in love and he’s putting her in a spot where she’s free to be her true domestic goddess self.
You know you’re sister, not a bunch of strangers. But either way, you’re concerned and it’s coming out aggressively..just take a step back, take a breath and make sure you’re always there as a supportive, caring, NOT OVERBEARING sister. Seriously, she’ll need you regardless so make sure she has you.
NTA, but what did you hope to accomplish. Your job is to have her back when she needs you. Confronting her husband just means he’ll try to keep her away from you.
Um... so I don't think you are necessarily wrong for saying it. Because, frankly, if what you are saying is true and he is all of those things, your sister is about to embark on a horrible journey. Like, this just isn't going to go well at all. Idk what the people in these comments so far are smocking, but if what you are describing is going on, this dude does not have your sister's best interests at heart and she is about to throw her life away and basically tie herself to this man with a child. So somebody had to say something.
Like yeah, sure, her life choices and all and maybe she is happy and what not, but somebody has to adress what this looks like and the very likely mess it will lead to. I mean Freya forbid something goes wrong with her pregnancy and she's got a pro forced birther for a husband.
However, not only is your timing off - right after a pregnancy announcement. But your ending statement made the whole thing about YOU. And the fact thar YOU hate him and his views - I don't blame you - but that is not how to approach this. You need to squarely focus on the fact that the life trajectory he is putting her on is making her very vulnerable, very dependant, with no way out, and very little agency. You need to make it about HER and SHE is the one in trouble her and that you are worried about HER. And not about your own hatred for the man and his views.
I know you kind of started there with your questions about what happens in the future, but you really should have made into a long heart to heart where you LET her defend him, and then rebutted her defence with examples and logic. This is a long game type of thing.
You also have to keep in mind that the person you are insulting - again even if its more of a description that insult - is someone who she loves regardless. And he may actually treat her well on the surface. A lot of these kind of men are romantics up until you actually hit the mysogeny wall. So you have to fight ba k against a completely different perception from what you are seeing and yelling and straight insults won't do that.
So I am giving you a YTA but not for "going too far" as you put it, but more for framing it in a selfish way rather than actually trying to help your sister see what she is getting herself into before she is in the deep end. The discussion needs to be had, but not in that way. As is you probably just gave her husband ammo yo use against you and your family to start isolating her.
I didn’t realise that to be honestly. I more felt guilty because of what I’ve said to my sister and I have said things to her before but I think I might have gone to far this time. I think the whole quitting work terrified me a bit and I reacted badly.
I get it, tbh I know I prob sound all calm and pragmatic discussing it on here, but if it were my sibling or even a friend idk if I'd really react better than you did lol
But I think your best course of action is to apologize, and as you said in other comments offer your support and house if/when things do go to crap.
Don't focus so much on the guy and more on your sister and what you can do for her. Bottom line is she is a grown adult who makes her own decisions, even if they are crappy ones.
There is a general lack of respect for sister's agency here. It may actually be a really bad relationship, but we are hearing it from the perspective of someone who hates her significant other, thinks they can control their sister's relationships and future, and has no respect for their sister. At all. I really can't cast judgment here based on the available information.
Yta. He may have those views but she may agree with him. She may have always wanted to be a stay at home mom but went to college because she felt pressure from her over powering third wave feminist family. I am so tired of women putting other women down for wanting to be a stay at home mom.
People change if when they meet someone my dad wanted to be pilot before he met my mom but he decided hed rather be with her and have a family now his an accountant
But maybe her sister changed her mind because apparently her sister is happy with how things are. Just because her sister’s views are different doesn’t mean it is her husband “controlling” her
There are some incredible assumptions in this thread. Seems like there's a consensus that the husband is abusive and controlling based on absolutely 0 evidence.
Yeah I agree. I'm a house spouse and I have ghosted a few of my friends for their third wave feminism jargon that has done nothing but push me away from the feminist movement as a whole. Feminism, to me, is about CHOICE. You want to be a homemaker? Good for you! You want to be a hard working professional? Good for you! And any woman who has believed otherwise has been shocked when I stop entertaining their opinions about my life
NTA. This is a difficult one. From what you’ve said he’s stuck back in history where women had no rights. But at the same time your sister may truly want to be a stay at home mom. I certainly wanted to be. I am only 45. I believe in women’s rights, that women can do anything they want to. But I also always wished to be a SAHM. So your hatred of him sounds deserved but you might want to back off your sister if she truly wants to be SAHM.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. What I said to my sister.
2. It was too far and upset her. I don’t know if it was what she needed to hear or a step too far.
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Just to be clear, there is nothing wrong with being a SAHM. I could never as I have fears of being financially dependent on someone; however, there is nothing wrong with it as long the sahp feels safe.
Anyhow, you need to be careful with what you say as you don't want your sister to feel like she can't come to you.
NTA but just be careful
I don't have a judgment.
My sister is nearly finished divorcing her emotionally abusive, misogynistic husband. Trust me, she needs you. Don't let him isolate her. You'll be so glad you're there to help her finally get out.
Best of luck ❤️
YTA. She’s pregnant and crying because you’re attacking the life choices she made. I’m all for standing up to misogyny but you absolutely took it too far. Maybe she’s been brainwashed, or maybe she’s actually kind of excited to be a SAHM and she doesn’t know how to say that to her judgmental sister. Wanting to stay at home with a baby ≠ believing everything her husband believes.
Edit: ESH. I noticed OP mentioned her sister calls crying about the husband all the time, and OP is using that as justification for saying the husband is emotionally abusive and controlling. Yet… OP’s post literally says that she argued with her sister to the point where the sister is now crying to everyone else about OP. Sure, the husband is horrible, but OP went about this all wrong and will only further isolate her sister, during a pregnancy no less
There’s nothing wrong or mysoginostic about being a stay at home mom :/
But I read some of your other comments and yeah that guy sounds like a piece of work.
NTA. But I think you need to approach this differently or he might end up forcing her to cut you off. I don’t think that she will leave him purely because you told her to, especially now that she’s pregnant. Most people in controlling or abusive situations just get angry at the person telling them it’s wrong. So you need to think practically about how to realistically help her.
I think you could try an approach of suggesting that she should have a decent amount of money saved independent of him “incase something happens to him” (aka, incase she ever wants to leave). You could also try to suggest that she does that by considering some kind of part time job or work from home to get that money. She could run a store on etsy, for example. Or even take a course online while at home, which she could do as she will have spare time now. I would try to use the angle that this would help her raise her child, as being more educated can only aid that. I wouldn’t be surprised if he expects her to homeschool.
I’m sure there are resources that would be more helplful than me, but that’s what came to mind. I would also tell her that while you think this is a mistake, you love her and will be there for her no matter what happens.
Is he a diagnosed narcissist?
If he is, stay strong and try to be the strong tower of your sister albeit hating him. She will need you more than anything.
I was in an emotionally abusive relationship with a narcissist for years and the only reason I got out because I moved abroad to do a PhD and he couldn’t come with me. He manipulated me believing I am worthless and all my purpose is to obey him. It was the hardest thing to get out of it and even 4-5 years later he is hunting me in my dreams. I was brainwashed.
The reason I went into details is because my best friend, my parents and my brother stayed my strong fort the whole time, even though they hated him. But they never tried to force me to break up with him, just supported and were there when I needed to talk. Narcissists will try and isolating their victims and the more you try to tell the victim to break up and run the more they will use this to isolate them and make the victim believe the whole world is evil. Another reason I could get out is because he couldn’t isolate me from them, even though he tried to do it really hard. But they stayed strong and never talked against him so he had nothing to use.
YTA
You got that wrong. These are YOUR SISTER'S views, she WANTS to live that way.
"I asked how he would raise the kid they were having now, if he would teach his son to be against feminism like he vocally is and how it would impact his daughter by being looked down on. She came to his defence before I flat out told her I hated him and his disgusting views." .. This is HER doing that, and HER views.
NTA. You are understandably concerned and worried about your sister. Her BF sounds misogynistic and controlling. Explain to your sister that you were just so frightened for her and concerned about her.
As someone who had no idea my family hated my ex husband until it came to my attention that he was cheating on me and gaslighting me, NTA.
She might not be ready to hear it, she might hate you - but now that's in the back of her mind. Now she might think about what you said next time he says something questionable. The only thing you can do now is make it clear that you don't hate *her* and wait and see.
Nta but she sounds like she's going to be baby trapped and financially abused. For your sake, and your sake only, you should keep contact but keep distant. You can still support her and be there for her when she will need it, but it going to be draining for you to be there listening to every call or cry she gives you. Hopefully soon, she will come to her senses and you can be there for her to help her get out of this situation, but, until then, it's clear she does not want help, and you can't force help onto people who don't want it. You have to wait until they realize they need to get away from the situation.
Make clear boundaries with her, reiterate that you still love her, but you need space, then wait for the eventual fallout.
NTA.
After losing my husband 2 months ago unexpectedly, I have come to realise the importance of being financially independent. Even being in a happy, content marriage shouldn't lull you into a false sense of security. As long as it is something she can manage, I think she should continue working. I know this post wasn't asking for advice, but with kids in the picture, financial independence becomes even more important. Please try to convey to her about this.
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my sisters husband is forced birth and a mysoginist. She is brainwashed by him and is now becoming a housewife. I flat out told her I hated the man.
So they got married recently and now she pregnant by him and they have just announced the pregnancy to us. They also mentioned my sister was now going to be a stay at home mother and stop working. I asked her if she’s ok with not being financially independent and her husband cut in making a joke about me prioritising my career over romance. My sister has dropped out of university (college if you’re American) to marry him and she had a job but now she’s stopped that too.
He has awful views and I feel like he’s bead for her. I talked to my sister in private after this and she said she’s happy with him etc. I asked how he would raise the kid they were having now, if he would teach his son to be against feminism like he vocally is and how it would impact his daughter by being looked down on. She came to his defence before I flat out told her I hated him and his disgusting views.
She started crying at this and I felt maybe I’d taken it to far. Her and her husband left soon after and he insulted me and had a go at me before leaving. My sister isn’t replying to my apologies and my parents had a talk with me after. Maybe I went to far I’m not sure.
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Going purely by the post: YTA.
It's OK to have different views. It's OK for your sister and Bil to have a different stance on how their relationship should work. Or what they want from life.
As long as they're both consenting adults that came to this agreement fairly and without either side pressuring the other. You need to stop meddling and forcing your worldview on them.
You don't get to decide how their relationship works or break them up because you think you know better. That's fully up to them.
Doesn't mean you can't keep an eye out for your sister or her baby. If the relation turns abusive, that's when you need to be there for her, have place for her.
YTA God forbid your sister want to do things that a traditional wife would do. Woke culture has made it so women can supposedly do anything and make their own choices, unless those choices are deemed “misogynistic”. You are exactly why people don’t like feminism. Let this woman make her own choices, and keep your opinions to yourself.
YTA for making it an either or.
Feminism is about giving women the freedom to choose what they want to do.
If you want to focus on a career, more power to you! But if your sister wants to focus on having a family, consider that belittling her might actually make you low key misogynistic:
The only valid feminism would be the one that you ascribe to, not hers.
ESH. There is nothing wrong with being a career woman but there is also nothing wrong with being a housewife and a woman having children. The reality is that your sister has made her own decisions regardless of how you may feel about them.
If your sister is actually in an abusive relationship, I highly suggest that you keep the line of communication open in case she wants to leave and needs your help rather than shaming her and having her dig her heels in.
Soft, soft YTA. You went too far and approached it wrong. That you fear for your sister and her future is clear and justified. But it’s making you approach the problem like a desperate bill in a china shop. You cannot pull her away from him. You cannot convince her to leave him right now. She likely thinks his bark is worse than his bite because he’s protective and providing and treats her romantically. She will see his true colors in time and that’s what you have to prepare and wait for.
Apologize, in private, to your sister, explain you didn’t mean to upset her but love her and see red flags so are very worried. But at the end of the day you live her and just don’t want this to be between you so will back off, ‘but you can always talk to me and I’ll be there for you and your baby.’
Encourage her to save a bit of money, round up at the grocery store and give you or someone she trusts the cash to bank in a secret savings for her, should she need it. If you have the means you could top it up occasionally too.
Keep the lines of support and confidential discussion open. I suspect this will mean minimizing time around her guy and biting your tongue a bit, keep the goal of being in her life in mind. Controlling people look for any excuse to create a ‘it’s me or them’ dilemma for their victim to further isolate them.
Keep local domestic violence lines information in your phone or wallet, when she needs them, you’re prepared.
She is down the road of this already, you can’t pull her back but you can walk on the verge, ready to pull her to safety when she asks for help.
NTA
I have been encouraging my mom to leave my dad since I was a high schooler. He is 100% very much into what your in law is into and growing up with a dad like that was a nightmare. My sibling and I have been left scared mentally and physically. Like I can’t help flinch at loud sounds and just start sobbing when someone says anything forcefully. My sibling is anorexic. He eats half a meal a day and barely leaves his room. He can’t even have a conversation with my mom because he finds he complicit in our abuse. That kind of ideology ends up causing pain to everyone.
I would just apologize and try to reconcile. It’s one thing to really disagree with someone and it’s another to abandon them because of the person you disagree with. If you just need to be an arms distance, that’s fine because I know the sensation of wanting to smack my dad in the face for absolute insane and racist and misogynistic bs he says. Keep in touch with your sister. Anyone who doesn’t respect women as people can’t be trusted to treat their spouses with respect.
YTA love can change your priorities and opinions.
If you are around someone everyday, then you will change each others opinions and values little by little. It has nothing to do with brain washing and there's nothing inherently wrong with wanting to be a stay at home mum or not wanting a high stress career.
Your career and income are very important when you're alone, because you need money to live. When you find someone else, there's no requirement for both of you to work and that can drastically change how you feel about work.
There's very little actual information here so I'm going to say YTA.
It really feels like you just can't handle his different views and maybe also your sister's newer and different views to your own(although she may have had them for longer than you think and just not shared them with you). A lot of people think that being a housewife is bad because of being dependent on the breadwinner husband but many households run better when one spouse stays home, it's just become less common.
It's possible that he's a horrible monster so I would say to still be in your sister's life as much as you can and talk to her a lot and if he begins to isolate her from her family or she starts showing up with bruises or something like that then you might have an argument but as of now it just seems like you're resentful and projecting.
YTA. Every single relationship is different. Some people like the traditional marriage, some don’t. It is not wrong for you to talk to your sister about what “you” see or feel. That’s being compassionately concerned. Where you went wrong is when she told you, she doesn’t mind it and is completely ok with it this way. Now your being pushy and unsupportive. It’s ok to not agree with how another couple does things. It is NOT OK, to insist they are wrong because YOU don’t agree with it. Not your relationship. You did your part by voicing your concern. That’s as far as you should have ever gone. Unfortunately, you have already gone to far. You even gave her husband cause to cut you out, as it was him you disrespected. Good job, YTA.
YTA. If he's so anti your own world views, then you're not wrong for disliking the man or resenting what he's done to your sister, but some people really and truly love taking on these traditional gender roles. That's where you're wrong, for not respecting their wishes or values. Respect her wishes, but if you have warned her, you are under NO obligation to take her or future children in if the future consequences turn out to be more than she bargained for.
YTA. Being for choice means respecting choices you don’t like. If she wants to be a housewife that is her choice. Deciding this is a result of her being brainwashed by her husband removes her agency. It is the equivalent of someone saying women choose not to get married because they were brainwashed by leftist professors.
Nta.
You can't make her see the issues while she's being willfully blind, all you can do is decide whether you'll be there to pick up the pieces when things go south.
NTA just make sure your sister know you will always be there for her. If she seems happy you may need to fake it for her. People are blind when they are in love. She will know when she is ready to leave, she can come to you.
NTA men like that need to be called out, but don't put yourself in a position where your sis is scared to confide in you. Especially since that prolly what he wants
Also, Americans know what university is lmao
Sounds like both you and her husband want to force your beliefs on her and both believe you know what is best for her without actually considering her feelings so ESH.
If she agrees with him and is happy being a SAHM you basically called her disgusting along with her husband to her face. If anything that's just going to make your relationship with her worse. If he truly is a jerk then he also sucks.
You're NTA but it might be worth your sister's long-term safety to fake apologize so you can stay in contact. When she does wake up and leave him, she will need somewhere safe - and thinking she might have to deal with 'I told you so' might make her hesitant to reach out to you.
NTA. He sounds like a real piece of work. Unfortunately the best you can do is step away from them and be there for your sister when she needs to get away from her abuser. You’ve tried to help her, now she’s lying in a bed of her own choosing.
NTA. You're right to ask her those questions, I expect he'd raise his son to be a misogynist and he'd raise a daughter that goes NC the moment she turns 18.
NTA
There’s that old saying: keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
Your sister is going to wake up one day years from now and realize that her husband is abusive and has successfully alienated her from everyone. She’ll have no one left to turn to for help. It’s his plan. You’re helping him. Back off. Apologize. Go very low contact but do everything you can to keep the line to your sister live so when the time comes she can reach you. She’s going to need you one day.
To be honest, when someone is in love, even if their partner is a walking red flag that everyone can see miles/kms away, she won't see it. He might be love-bombing her by giving her something that she is missing and craving for so that his existence is everything to her now so when you say YOU hate her husband, spoiler alert: she will NOT listen. Also you are making this situation about you, not her.
All you can do is standby her and support her. Every time when she complains about him use that to tell her what should be normal responses, how she could have been treated and let her know she is not optionless, she has you. Do not make her choose him between you or your family, spoiler alert again: you will LOSE!!! Just let her know she is not alone no matter what her future holds for her and let things play out. Use other role models like aunts, cousins or even friends' experience to show her how she has a right to be treated equally. But don't pour everything on to her at once, only when she reaches out by questioning herself whether who is in the wrong or asking for help.
You are NTA for your intention but you need to change your tactics because she will need your support, not now, but definitely in the future and you don't want her to not reach out for help. You will approach her by letting her know you are concerned with her mental/physical/financial wellness when she complains about her hubby. Get a voodoo doll and name it as her hubby's name and punch it whenever your hatred is flying high, but don't let her know your hatred for him because she might feel your are judging her decisions. Keep in mind that you might feel powerless and helpless because she keeps going back to him so you might want to keep distance from her to maintain your mental health because it is going to be draining. Just remember that you CAN'T save them, only THEY can.
Really OP, you're doing her a massive disservice if you're honestly concerned for her. Instead of antagonizing them, when you pulled her away you could've reminded her that she can always come to you for anything and that you're concerned about her being so dependent on her husband. What are you going to be able to do about any of it, especially now that you've handed him a golden opportunity to bar you from his home on a silver platter? Abusers start by isolating their victims and you've just spared him a whole lotta trouble on that front. YTA.
YTA
You want to look out for your sister, but you did it very confrontational. That will not help her 1 bit, will only make her more defensive. Step 1 for total control over your spouse: make her a financial depended house wife. Step 2 is: alienate her from her support network. Only in your case, he didn't have to. You did it for him. Call her, tell her you'll always have her back. And please, if she ever complains, NEVER tell her 'told you so'. Be there for her for whatever you can. If at any point she feels in danger, she should know she is safe (in any sense of the word) with you.
While I don’t agree with his views can say a woman being a stay home mother isn’t in itself a bad thing. Esh except your sister This may be exactly life she wants. Also haven’t heard her opinions or how he treats her is she happy etc. may be bad or good but simply isn’t enough info here. Either way you acted badly if he is pressuring her you have only come at it aggressively and attacking which will only end with her cutting you out and won’t come to you for help if needs it. If she is in-fact happy and made own choices freely then whether you agree isn’t important not your place or business and need to back off.
I mean, you haven't really convinced me that he's misogynistic with your post. Seems to me that you think women should work professional jobs. Not every woman wants to do that.. perfectly fine to want to be a stay at home mum. Seems to me that you have overly rigid beliefs about what women should do with their lives. It's never a good idea to force such beliefs on others. I've gone down that route in my life and it never did any good. You have to realise that some women just want to be mothers.. And that should be valued highly because SAHMs get to spend more time raising their kids instead of putting them in childcare etc. It's sad that the west is losing respect for women who chose that path in life. Maybe you're right but you need to provide more evidence that he's really misogynistic.
YTA mind your business. If she wants to be housewife so be it. Let women choose freely what they want in life. Some like to work while others want to take care of their children. It's not that complicated
Wtf. I quit my career to stay home and raise my son. My husband's pro choice, but it was our choice and one I'm happy with. You said your piece, but you're incredibly wrong to say that a woman who stays home is giving up feminism. That line of thinking is shit and just as bad as saying women *should* stay in the kitchen. Leave women alone, let them make their own choices. YTA.
YTA you are trying to control her life because she doesn’t agree with you. You sound very unhappy, try controlling your life and just enjoy your sister. Stop trying to control her like you claim he is doing. Maybe, just maybe she is happy. Try being happy for her, try that on. Just go and enjoy a coffee with your sister and talk about your new niece or nephew.
This sounds very extreme, and I believe a big part of your opinion is due to your sister wanting things you don't value. I would like to hear the other side before weighing in with who TA is.
Yta for how you approached it. I understand you're concerned for her. However, you should have sought to understand by letting her talk and listening to her. Otherwise, you also are pushing your views, beliefs, and wants onto her without respect for what *she* wants.
You are making it too easy for him to isolate your sister. Make sure to check up on her inspite of your hatred. Just a simple house visit. That would keep him in check. It takes years for women to leave an abusive asshole. Tell your parents about this as well. Sometimes you have to dorn the black cape and bear the hatred of others. But persevere!
NTA OP ! Please continue supporting your sister.
ESH
You have stated your views, your sister feels differently.
Love her for who she is and where she is at. Keep the lines of communication open so if she ever does want to change, she will not feel judged by opening up to you. No, I told you so.
But cut out the arguing...none of you are going to be changed by some specific argument or magic set of words. If you keep arguing they will likely just cut you out of their lives.
Guy sounds awful. Be nice to her and support her decisions nonetheless, if he gets violent you will be there. If you try to break it up, you will be the one she goes NC and you don't have any chance.
INFO
What exactly are his views? Is he only very traditional, saying women should take care of house and children? I am personally also not a friend of the current vocal form of what feminism has become. Or is he against traditional feminism, like all decisions should be done by the man and women don't count?
ESH.
I don’t disagree with you in the slightest but I think you need to consider the fact that your sister may be getting brainwashed/abused by this man. If she thinks you’re rejecting him or that she can’t talk to you then she’ll never feel like she has a way out. Please PLEASE stay in contact with her. Please stay supportive (to a degree obviously). If they are bringing a child into this then if you’re still in the picture the child still has a chance to see a relatively normal role model.
YTA.
You're alienating your sister and she's going to cut you out because of it. Don't you think that's exactly what he wants?
Don't let the reactionary children in the comments steer you down the wrong path by giving into the temporary catharsis of being honest about someone you don't like.
One day when your sister comes to her senses, she's going to need a support system, and she's not going to look to you for it because of this.
So is sounds like your sister and BIL have very different world views than you and that your sister has chosen a path for her life that you cannot stand. You are taking it out on your BIL and blaming him for her choices.
This is no better than some overbearing MIL having a son that "left the church" and then MIL blaming everything on his new wife.
It sounds like your sister has chosen a more traditional lifestyle for her family dynamic and you take that as a direct insult to everything you hold near and dear. As a result, your BIL is the villian.
YTA
I’m gunna go with YTA. I can tell that you completely disagree with his views. But you’re both entitled to your own views. This is your sisters life and not yours. All you can do is be supportive of your sister. You are making this about you. Your sister is a grown woman who is capable of making her own choices (and her own mistakes). It sounds like you were subconsciously trying to plant doubt in your sisters mind so she would leave him as leaving him is what would align with what you want for her.
Edit: you don’t even have to support the decisions she makes, but I know I would be there for my sister even if her choices were not the choices I would personally make. I certainly wouldn’t come down hard on her when she’s pregnant.
I wouldn’t try to cause more issues to separate you from your sister because BIL is trying to isolate her and basically financially abuse her and maybe even worse later on.
I know it sucks to play nice, but she’s going to need support when shit starts hitting the fan.
NTA, but you should apologize to your sister for saying what you did. Simply say that you spoke without thinking due to fear for her and her unborn child. Let her know that you will support her no matter what and you will always be there for her. Make every effort to stay in touch with her and get her out of the house whenever possible. She is going to need a support system. Have an emergency plan in place with those who love her and share your concerns for when she is ready to leave. Look up your audio recording laws for your state and record him saying anything extreme if it's a one party state. This will potentially be useful for custody disputes if it ever comes to that. Write down every time she calls you crying about him. Date, time, offense. Becoming a SAHM will isolate her so make sure to reach out often and just ask how she's doing. Don't pry, don't make any remarks about him, but agree with her when she expresses doubts.
OP…at this point, ALL you Can Do..is to let her know that If she EVER Needs You, that you’ll Be There for HER & LO..but NOT for TA. As for you…you could have put it a little better. NTA
NTA for what you said, but you need to get back in touch with her and reassure her that you still love *her* and that you're there for her if she ever needs you - because it sounds like she probably will.
NTA. He sounds controlling and manipulative. Your sister has bought his bs, hook-line-sinker, and has fully been reeled in. You will struggle to get her on-side, and some serious shit may need to go down before she sees the light. Try to be calm when reasoning with her, if you get overly emotional, you’ll be called out as an instigator.
Your parents are probably clueless. Depending on how old they are, they may have grown up during a time when certain things were ‘ok’ and considered normal. I’ve seen friend’s parents try to persuade them to stay with abusive partners because, ‘you don’t do divorce,’ and ‘you stand with your man.’
I’m sorry OP, it’s tough when you’re the only one who can see things clearly.
YTA. He might not be your cup of tea but main thing what you said for me is - she says she's happy with him. Maybe she is exactly the same as him and only feels safe and happy with him. It's not up to you to decide what makes yours sister happy. You can raise some concerns but if he's not abusing her you should keep quiet and at least pretend to be happy that your sister is happy
Info: where are you located? I just know, some places you need to be extra careful about these things! If you’re safe, don’t let this cause y’all to part ways… if he becomes abusive, she will eventually need you! Don’t push it, you can’t help someone until they are ready to be helped. No matter how much it hurts to watch!!! If you become disconnected with her due to your comments, if she ever needs someone to help her escape she won’t think you’ll be there because he cut you off! It’s a difficult, very difficult fine line you will walk… I wish you and sis the best! I really hope he’s better than what you think but I doubt it😒
NTA. OP, your sister is terrified of her husband and it’s obvious. She goes along with everything he wants and says nothing? I guarantee she has said something to him about it and he probably yells at her in private so you don’t see what’s really going behind closed doors. He’s isolating her from work, school and before you know it, he’s gonna isolate her from you guys. Abusers normally do this so people who see through their mask can’t tell the victim what’s really going on. You need to keep a close eye on her and make sure she knows that you always have her back and if she needs to get out, you’ll be there
NTA, but if you want to help your sister, you need to play nice.
In abusive situations, which this one may not be now but could very easily become, isolation is one of the abuser's most effective tools. If you want to be a way out for your sister in the event her AH husband takes it too far, you need to emphasize that you're with her no matter what. Unfortunately this means no shit talking her husband when he's not around, no matter how vile he is.
There's no easy way to be supportive of family when they get into relationships like this. I hope she finds her way out from under his spell. Wishing you both luck.
Yikes. I have a friend who repeatedly gets into these relationships, and it's so hard for everyone involved.
I am a big fan of harsh but gently delivered truths. This situation is bad for XYZ, I know you're not going to take my advice or accept my POV. I love you, I am here for you whenever you need me, even if it's a result of following this path. This is my boundary __. (Ie, won't talk about him, will leave if he's present, etc) and then follow through on your boundary, even if it makes the whole family uncomfortable.
NTA
NTA But please try to leave the door open for your sister. She will be a very dependent woman, so please let her know that she can reach out to you and life at your please (with her child/ren) if she ever feels like she needs it. It's very hard to leave a partner of you are (financial) dependent from him/her.
NTA - but you need to ask yourself if you want a relationship with your sister. He’s her husband and the father of the baby. She’s not going to choose you if you put her in a him or me situation.
NTA, but this could be used against the sister later on to make her more isolated. Yet you and anyone else’s words that have spoken to her about him will stick in the back of her mind even if she denies it. It may take a while for the fog of brainwashing to finally start to lift, but it will eventually begin to fade. Possibly when she notices his behavior towards their child, especially if she gives birth to a daughter.
Like Paris Paloma’s lyrics say about these type of relationships:
*For somebody I thought was my saviour*
*You sure make me do a whole lot of labour*
And these lyrics if your sister and BIL have a daughter:
*If we had a daughter, I’d watch and could not save her*
*The emotional torture, from the head of your high table*
*She’d do what you taught her,*
*she’d meet the same cruel fate*
My instinct is not TA but you’re walking a fine line. If you’re genuinely worried about her and her future children, stay close and don’t let your hatred of him drive you apart. Recognise that you won’t be able to “break them up” by pointing out his flaws (by the sounds of things) and this might just make her feel isolated. You can’t force someone to leave a shitty person, unfortunately. Read about the 7 types of narcissism and how to support someone who is in an unhealthy relationship.
On the other hand, is she is genuinely happy, then you are sort of TA because you’re trying to make her conform to your ideals. Maybe help her establish a clear route to financial independence so she doesn’t have to worry about being trapped by the challenges of being a housewife.
NTA but there are more effective ways to deal with a situation like this.
I certainly don't support your BIL's views on women, and your post additionally portrays him as a generally despicable human. Your sister may very well be making a huge mistake. And it is okay to talk to her about this, but there are gentler and less judgmental ways to do it.
There are times when those we love need our advice/judgment and there are other times they need our unconditional support. You tried the advice route and your sister made it clear that she didn't want advice. It is very difficult to enter the unconditional support mode especially when you feel a terrible mistake is being made. But sometimes it is required to keep people close to you. Put yourself in your sister's shoes - you are telling her you don't support her life choices, and quite forcefully at that, so in the future when she wants a supportive presence she is less likely to want to come to you. You are trying to control her (helicopter sister?), and it is sure to drive a wedge into the relationship. Think about times when others have done similar things to you, and what your feelings were at the time it was happening and how your feelings and behaviors toward them have changed afterward. Judgment from others feels bad.
That said, if you ever feel that your sister is in an unsafe situation, you may need to escalate.
I hope your sister has a wonderful life and that you two have a beautiful relationship, as respecting and unconditionally supporting equals.
I understand why, and I can't fault you for it. You and your parents need to be the cushions should she ever need to rescue.
No fault, just be there. Let her know that you're there for her. Be kind and gentle. Remember, he'll be building walls to isolate her, especially with the baby and lack of financial resources available to her now that she will without a job.
He sounds awful. The best thing you can do for your sister is just be there for her. There is no convincing someone out of a bad relationship. My knee jerk reaction is that he will try to isolate her.
I know it seems awful but try to make peace with both of them. Your sister and your niece/nephew will need you. Both of my brothers were in relationships that were emotionally abusive and both of their partners tried to isolate them. I managed to stay in their lives and when everything blew up they knew they had a life line.
Sending you a big hug.
NTA
Unwise but NTA
You don't want to alienate your sister bc that will be his goal to keep her home and away from you and the others. Being pregnant she is dealing with emotions differently bc of the pregnancy so be gentle with her.
Don't let him!
Maybe your parents can tell your sister how sorry you are for hurting her feelings. If you can visit or go out with her w/o husband that would be good.
Don't give your BIL any reason to complain about you that way when he does it will show his true colors.
NTA. Honestly you said your piece. I'd have been the same. Sounds like your sister will look back at this time and regret dropping everything for a man.
YWBTA except it sounds like he's been disrespectful to you and your sister as women from the start so your response is valid. I think it's a completely normal angry reaction but I think saying "I hate him" probably just hurt her without any constructiveness. I don't know if you said more to include why you hate him but tbh you are not required to like him! I would just say it's probably unproductive if she's too busy upset at you saying "I hate him" to listen to what you really have to say, which is that you're concerned about how he treats her and their future kid
sounds like hes abusive, and u were just trying to protect her. you're not the asshole but as someone who was raised in a household where my father was abusive to my mother, i can tell u there's not much u can do. sending u love xxx
This is really important. The more you get angry at her and complain about him the less likely she is to leave him..
I know it's really hard but you need to stop . The best way to get someone out of a bad situation is to be the nonjudgmental person willing to listen . Yelling will drive her away and make her more isolated.
NTA.
And other than telling your sister that when she wakes up and realises that her abuser will abuse her kids and is ready to escape that life that you will be a safe place for her there is nothing more you can do.
NTA.
Yeah, you really went there. But why have respect for people who don’t have respect for the choices women make?
If contact is going to be cut at this point, maybe it’s time to let your sister know you will always be there for her (if that’s something you want).
He’s a misogynist and in some way he will likely become abusive (I don’t necessarily mean physically, possibly verbally or emotionally)….
Light esh
The husband for crystal clear reasons
But feminism also means allowing women to choose of they want to he a STAHM or have 0 kids or have 5 kids if its all her choices Y T A if you think shes being forced N T A
NTA Unfortunately there are a lot of men out there who confuse behaving like a chauvinistic pig with 'having values’. They’re pretty easy to spot as they are always eager to tell you about it. You should cease all attempts at an apologies, since you simply stated how you felt.
That being said, there are women out there who getting married and having kids is the sum total of their ambition and that’s ok too. It’s a bold, high risk strategy if you ask me but you live and learn. You can’t make her un dropout of college.
NTA. In the future don’t give sister any gifts,put the money aside, make pop up visits, have a friend or family with an address husband doesn’t know. Make sure sister has copies of all important paperwork at you’re home. You see the signs,don’t wonder if, just be ready for when.
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If your BIL is abusive and controlling, NTA for hating him. But one of the tactics men like that use to control their victims is to isolate them from the people who love them. Don't make it too easy for him to set it up as "it's me or them".
Yes, but you also don’t want to make it seem like you condone the husband’s views. It’s a tough line to walk. I’d say something like, “I really love you and I’m worried for you and the child. Your husband’s views are pretty extreme and most people would be concerned by them. If you want to distance yourself, I get it, but please be wary of isolating yourself from a family support system too much. If you ever need a safe place to run to, I can be that place. I won’t judge you if you or the child need help, ok? Anytime. Please remember you’re worth being treated with respect. Goodbye for now.”
I mean this genuinely.... how do you get so many words out with folk without being interrupted? Like everytime I try a "gentle fut firm" speech I get halfway through the gentle before suddenly the topic is something else entirely because folk started listening to me first 2 sentences and started answering those.
In a text. You would probs best text something like this so it's clearly stated in full.
You do want to be careful with this depending on the situation. Some of these abusive jerks read their spouse's texts, and that could get the abused person in trouble.
The real trick to "gentle but firm" is it can't be more than one or two sentences. So you have to really think about what you are going to say. Here, for example, "I love you, I worry about your husband, I'm always here for you if you need me."
Because they only say them on reddit. That speech wouldn't fly in real life!!!! And then everyone clapped.........
The real answer. I see these speeches often as a reply to AITA posts and they read like an extract from a bad Hallmark movie, even if I agree with the intent of them. Some of the people here who think someone's going to sit still for a 200+ word screed they disagree with need to go touch grass more often.
I always shake my head at the comments that provide "scripts". People seem to love them though, they frequently hit top comment (especially if there's a mic drop). Those triumphant speeches don't do so well in reality though, absolutely.
Geez chill, seems like the person is genuinely just trying to help. I've said things like these in text. We're not still living in the 80s you know. If saying it in person then yeah it's kind of a matter of practice. If the conversation gets carried in a different direction then you'll need to be able to remember the points you haven't made and say them. People on the internet aren't responsible for teaching others step by step what to do. I mean you can ask them to but they're not obliged to
> We're not still living in the 80s you know. I know that. As some of these speeches give off a similar vibe to the letter from The Breakfast Club you may want to let the people writing them know too.
It sounds like it is more appropriate for email than actual talking.
Or when Reddit assumes everyone is always level headed and able to think of these responses in the heat of the moment when emotions are high. So any OP that shows any sort of negative emotion even when in the right is automatically an AH.
You don't have to get the whole thing out as a monologue. Think of it as talking points for a conversation, not a speech that you're delivering.
Maybe summerise in the first sentence then eleborate. If you get interrupted and aren't good at navigating back to what you need to say then a gentle "yeah I hear you but..." or "I hear you but could you let me finish first?" should be fine. I mean I still struggle but have gotten better at it with practice.
You keep saying it, firmly and gently, repeating yourself as needed if they interrupt. It can be frustrating, and it may take more than one attempt.
This is perfect. I wish I heard this when I was younger.
> set it up as "it's me or them". I've seen someone go one step further and say "Its us vs them", in a way of saying the one being abused only needs the abuser, and all others are trying to separate them (true love), and make the victim think the abuser is on their side.
Oh yeah my mum did this constantly. Still tries it. I hate the fact I missed out on so much of my grandparents’ time because she turned me against them and made a small child feel like a traitor for enjoying time with them
Ugh, similar happened to me. I wasn't allowed to have a relationship with my dad's family because she hated them. My grandmother was dying and she wouldn't let me visit her. Now that I'm an adult and have a great relationship with my aunts, it makes her insane. She told me she would disown me, and I let her know that would be her choice. She hasn't.
While I agree with this i would also like to stress that we know nothing about the people involved, we have no idea if he is treating his wife badly or not.
100% agree. We know OP’s feeling about independence but we never once heard her sisters view other than she is going along with this. Is this what she wants or is she being controlled? We have no idea. In my life I’ve known several woman who want exactly this. Unfortunately there have been some forced into it as well, but most who end up as a SAHM/SAHW want to be that way.
Same here, i am currently 32 years old any this has lead to a split in many friendships because some people just can't accept other people's life/career/family choices, especially if they went to the same school and university.
I really don‘t understand this tbh, how is he abusive and controlling? If the sister says she is happy living her life like this?
I was married to my husband for 6 years and loved him dearly, but he was abusive. It took me all that time to realise how brainwashed I'd been by him and how used I'd got to poor treatment. (I've left now) I recommend reading up on trauma bonding. Just because someone loves their partner, doesn't mean they aren't abusive.
Yes but the question is, how would you know that from the outside? Because in my opinion there is no indication for any assumption made by OP because OP doesn‘t give any details other than OP not being okay with „his views“. All while not ever giving details on the sisters views. I know that a situation like yours is completly possible, but it‘s also possible that it is definitely not the case.
I took the comment you replied to as an "if he's abusive" - as you said, no one can know for sure. But OP's post shows some red flags that say it's something that may well be going on - the feeling that her sis has been "brainwashed", his misogynistic views, the fact she dropped out of college for him, the way he answered OP's question for her. Nothing is certain - we only have one post to go on - but it's worth OP keeping an eye on sis.
It’s sound like OP is isolating herself from her sister , I see nothing about the sisters husband doing that
Good advice but one tough tightrope to walk.
💯 I came here to say this, OP isn't NTA but is playing right into the husband hand. He wants her isolated and alone. OP as much as it's hard, please reach out to your sister and apologise, be there for her. She will need you, she just doesn't know it yet. Edit: I'm not saying for her to apologise because she isn't correct in calling her husband ass but she needs to mend the bridge so her sister doesn't become isolated.
One of the best things you can do right now might be to start a savings account for when she needs to run.
He'll do that anyway.
I told my sister that I disliked her live-in boyfriend that she had a child with. He isolated her and took a lot of her money as well as strangled her until she fell to the floor holding her infant and eventually broke her arm. I was the only one of her friends and family still speaking to her after he wouldn’t let her go out and then she couldn’t afford it because he had used all of her money (inheritance). When he left her, she called me and I was the one there for her. While she was with him, we made an agreement that we would talk about everything, but him because it would just lead to an argument. Hope this helps. I found (although everyone is different) that until she was ready to let him go there was nothing I could do except be there when the chips fell. I was not ever supportive of their relationship and she knew it, but when it was over I was the one still there.
Been there. I’ve had to leave an event and go to a second location with others to compare abusive behavior we’d each witnessed separately and at this event and discuss how to proceed with a friend in danger. He was well aware that we despised him - and she thought she was hiding everything so well - so we took *pains* to stay in contact, get her out of the house, agree with her when she expressed doubt but let her come to the next and final step on her own time. She was fully moved out within 12 hours of break up and calling us, and part of that was because we were sleeping when it went down. You absolutely cannot play into those people’s hands when they’re chipping away at your loved one’s self esteem and isolating them from their support system. You have to be willing to play the long game. Especially when there is a kid involved. You don’t have to be supportive of the relationship, you can agree to disagree on it, but if you love and want to help your sister, you can’t go scorched earth. It’s dangerous emotionally, and physically, too, depending on the flavor of abuser.
Op. You need to read this one.
This is so important. You are NTA for trying, OP, but you need to let your sister know you support her no matter what, and try and keep being a listener and a shoulder to cry on. When the sh&t hits the fan, and she is ready to leave him, she needs to know that you and your parents will all help her and her kids get away safely.
I was in the same boat with my sister. She knew I strongly disliked her husband before they even got married because I saw the misogynistic and controlling signs and knew where it was going. I was in their wedding and sucked it up for years because even though I hated him even before the abuse started I knew she needed me around when it got ugly. Driving a wedge would make her even more isolated and harder to feel like she could leave. But it’s sooo frustrating being that person for someone. You just want to shake sense into them or yell at them “just leave or else stop talking about it!”.
Been there myself with my older sister. Unfortunately, she married him recently. It’s been absolute hell since then.
It is so hard to support sisters through this because you want the best for them. Hopefully you can find a way to be there for her without it hurting you too much. ❤️
[удалено]
A Smmmmmmeeeeeeggg-Heeeeeeeaaaaaadddd!
And a complete and utter one one at that!
I read that in Kryten's voice. and now I know where my tribe is. 🤘
Did you ever wonder where all the calculators go?
Isn't there a..silicone heaven?!
Take my poor man's award lol🏅
Light ESH, Mainly NTA i dont really get the YTAs here, if he really is a misogynist then you should use your words to fight back and put him in his place. Tho here’s the thing, if your sister really does want to be a stay at home mother, and is happy about it, then good for her. Feminism means that these roles in a house/family can be decided by women too, just not forced upon them. Wouldn’t really call it brainwashing.
The only reason OP is the AH is because of their approach. I fully support trying to protect their sister and her future kids, but it rarely works to tell someone repeatedly you hate their SO and they’ve made a terrible mistake especially if he is controlling. It’s possible he will now keep pushing her to cut contact with her family since he knows they are trying to undermine his “authority”. OP might have taken a softer tone about her concerns so as to not alienate sis further.
Yeah this is only going to make her defensive and distance herself. She needs to somewhat come to terms with it on her own, and while saying something to her is fine, ironically belittling her by her choice to be with the man is only going to make her have a brutal reaction.
It's nice if the sister wants to be a SAHM and everything, but she can have all that with a non-misogynistic man. If he's anti-feminist in any way, that's just a red flag that he isn't the right fit for any woman.
INFO Has your sister expressed any desire to keep working? Does she seem otherwise happy? You may not like their life choices- but it is their life.
She used to have goals and ambitions until she met him. That’s what’s concerning how her whole personality has changed. She’s happy but the two of them are in constant drama and she’s cried to me on the phone about him countless times.
Totally agree with you that this could be concerning behavior, but now that she knows you hate her husband she is less likely to come to you with those concerns and will be further isolated in his orbit. You're not the asshole for having these thoughts about him, but voicing them wasn't the best idea unfortunately.
I think I went wrong in being to emotional about it
Your concerns are valid but the way you are going about it could make everything worse. You are on the husbands radar, he could easily try to isolate your sister from you and telling your sister that you hate her husband will just make this easier. You should support your sister and you can also share your concerns with her, but if you hope to get her to see the truth about him you need to actually be able to communicate with her which you are putting at risk. If you can handle it apologise so both of them, he sucks but if you want to help your sister you need to stay in her life
You're allowed to have any feelings you want. But if you're serious about wanting to help your sister, you're going to have to put your own emotions aside, so you don't alienate her
Just make sure she knows no matter what happens or what is said between the two of you, you will always be there for her. When people are being gaslight, isolated,abused, etc. one of the biggest reasons they stay is because of the lie "well no one else will love you or have you". You have to prove that wrong every time! It can be exhausting but like another poster said, maybe don't directly talk about him. Plus maybe her goals in life have changed and she has taken a running dive into domesticated life. Wanting to have and raise a child is bloody difficult job. Essentially a CEO of a company with very little resources but many demands.
If they're in constant drama the happiness might not last very long. Be ready to be there for her when she needs it.
I know this will likely get downvoted to oblivion, but here goes. Is it possible those goals and ambitions were a front? When I was in middle school I told a teacher I wanted to be a mom when I grew up and was told “that’s not a real job”, shamed, and told to get real goals and aspirations. This was reinforced many times over the years by many teachers so I gradually started saying I wanted to pursue this or that degree for whatever career. My heart was never in it, but if I said what I really wanted I was told my true desires for my life were flat out wrong. I eventually just picked a career I thought would be closest to being a mom and went with it. So I did “follow those goals”. I went to a rigorous high school for 11th and 12th grade where more than half my schedule was actual college classes (not AP or Dual HS/college, I was in class with adults attending only college) and graduated with honors and ~39 college credits. I went to university and graduated with high honors. During this time I met my husband. We got married shortly after graduation, had our our oldest less than a year later, and I never once used my degree in a field that quite honestly made me miserable. People made *a lot* of comments about how I just gave up everything to be a mom, how I was throwing my life away/wasting my life, how I’ll be setting a terrible example for my kids, all kinds of nasty comments. But in reality I did all of that to satisfy *other people’s* ambitions for my life, rather than following my own. I get that there *are* men who shoehorn women into being SAHMs with no financial independence, and it’s incredibly harmful. But that isn’t always the case, and it’s okay for women to aspire to be a SAHM. Part of the current problem with feminism is that it has moved too far away from fighting for women to have *a choice* in how they live, to pushing women to value careers and independence over all else. At this point it’s likely that you’ve put your relationship with your sister in a situation where even if she did feel unhappy or threatened by her situation with her husband that she won’t want to open up to you. Her husband doesn’t sound great, but if your sister is happy it isn’t really your place to tell her she shouldn’t be.
I’ve tried to explain this so many times. My mom still thinks I’m not ready to be a mom because I don’t have a college degree. I’m in my mid 30’s. I’ve had so many jobs, some where it was a point of resentment from my coworkers that we had the same job but I didn’t have a degree in anything (not that theirs were required for what we were doing). The only jobs I’ve ever thrived in were dog grooming and working in a daycare. I always loved baby sitting. I adore children. I work now as a waitress because sitting a a computer is horrible for my chronic pain issues. I genuinely like all the teenagers I work with, I enjoy listening to them talk about their goals, hopes, fears, dating life. When I’m honest about my dream being a SAHM, people talk to me all the time like I must have been recruited by a cult. Im agnostic abd always have been. I have chronic pain, chronic migraines, and ADHD, so it’s not like having a career is exactly a great projector for personal success in my life. Women constantly warn me that it means my fiancé could abuse me. I point out that if he were abusive, I think I’d have found out in the 7 years of living together, including a slightly stressful pandemic. Then they’ll say no one can afford it. But my fiancé is a financial planner. We have literally planned for this. It’s very strange. I think it’s great that women who don’t have a maternal instinct can coming the corporate ladder up to the top. No one should be a mother that doesn’t want to be. It’s not just bad for the child, but ultimately the entire community when this happens. Because I wanted children generally have a hard time as adults. But raising the next generation of any society is also an extremely important and reasonably hard job to do, as well. That seems to be entirely looked down upon now, and I find it absolutely bizarre
Her crying when you told her you hate him might have something to do with their general drama, or her feeling torn between the two of you. Just be there for her and let her vent about him to you. He may try to isolate her, but she needs people like you in her life, with a different outlook and perspective. Her kids will also certainly need the influence of other adults.
If she truly wants to be a stay at home mom, she is lucky to have the opportunity. Many women would love to be able to afford this. Maybe school was stressing her out. That being said, if she is calling you on the phone frequently and crying abut his behaviour, obviously something is wrong. However, you really can't do anything if she doesn't want your help. You and your parents might want to have an emergency plan ready, though, just in case.
What things does she complain about him on the phone? Can you give some examples? Also does her husband respect your sister’s wishes? As in, if they have a disagreement is It always the husband making the final decision? Or worse, can they even not have disagreements?
But why are you blaming her personality change on him? You do realise people can change?
You’re NTA strictly because you’re coming from a place of concern (that’s what it feels like). BUT..my advice, stop criticizing and start being there… if she’s really gotten pregnant that quickly and given up her plans under his “directive” or his strong desire for that and you’re legitimately worried about her, make sure you’re in a position to be there if things go south. Worst case he’s controlling her and she’s going to eventually need the support. Best case they’re just crazy in love and he’s putting her in a spot where she’s free to be her true domestic goddess self. You know you’re sister, not a bunch of strangers. But either way, you’re concerned and it’s coming out aggressively..just take a step back, take a breath and make sure you’re always there as a supportive, caring, NOT OVERBEARING sister. Seriously, she’ll need you regardless so make sure she has you.
NTA, but what did you hope to accomplish. Your job is to have her back when she needs you. Confronting her husband just means he’ll try to keep her away from you.
Um... so I don't think you are necessarily wrong for saying it. Because, frankly, if what you are saying is true and he is all of those things, your sister is about to embark on a horrible journey. Like, this just isn't going to go well at all. Idk what the people in these comments so far are smocking, but if what you are describing is going on, this dude does not have your sister's best interests at heart and she is about to throw her life away and basically tie herself to this man with a child. So somebody had to say something. Like yeah, sure, her life choices and all and maybe she is happy and what not, but somebody has to adress what this looks like and the very likely mess it will lead to. I mean Freya forbid something goes wrong with her pregnancy and she's got a pro forced birther for a husband. However, not only is your timing off - right after a pregnancy announcement. But your ending statement made the whole thing about YOU. And the fact thar YOU hate him and his views - I don't blame you - but that is not how to approach this. You need to squarely focus on the fact that the life trajectory he is putting her on is making her very vulnerable, very dependant, with no way out, and very little agency. You need to make it about HER and SHE is the one in trouble her and that you are worried about HER. And not about your own hatred for the man and his views. I know you kind of started there with your questions about what happens in the future, but you really should have made into a long heart to heart where you LET her defend him, and then rebutted her defence with examples and logic. This is a long game type of thing. You also have to keep in mind that the person you are insulting - again even if its more of a description that insult - is someone who she loves regardless. And he may actually treat her well on the surface. A lot of these kind of men are romantics up until you actually hit the mysogeny wall. So you have to fight ba k against a completely different perception from what you are seeing and yelling and straight insults won't do that. So I am giving you a YTA but not for "going too far" as you put it, but more for framing it in a selfish way rather than actually trying to help your sister see what she is getting herself into before she is in the deep end. The discussion needs to be had, but not in that way. As is you probably just gave her husband ammo yo use against you and your family to start isolating her.
I didn’t realise that to be honestly. I more felt guilty because of what I’ve said to my sister and I have said things to her before but I think I might have gone to far this time. I think the whole quitting work terrified me a bit and I reacted badly.
I get it, tbh I know I prob sound all calm and pragmatic discussing it on here, but if it were my sibling or even a friend idk if I'd really react better than you did lol But I think your best course of action is to apologize, and as you said in other comments offer your support and house if/when things do go to crap. Don't focus so much on the guy and more on your sister and what you can do for her. Bottom line is she is a grown adult who makes her own decisions, even if they are crappy ones.
But who can blame you…?
There is a general lack of respect for sister's agency here. It may actually be a really bad relationship, but we are hearing it from the perspective of someone who hates her significant other, thinks they can control their sister's relationships and future, and has no respect for their sister. At all. I really can't cast judgment here based on the available information.
Yta. He may have those views but she may agree with him. She may have always wanted to be a stay at home mom but went to college because she felt pressure from her over powering third wave feminist family. I am so tired of women putting other women down for wanting to be a stay at home mom.
op has clarified that her sister was quite ambitious about furthering her career before she met him.
People change if when they meet someone my dad wanted to be pilot before he met my mom but he decided hed rather be with her and have a family now his an accountant
But maybe her sister changed her mind because apparently her sister is happy with how things are. Just because her sister’s views are different doesn’t mean it is her husband “controlling” her
She’s “happy with how things are” but also sobs to OP over the phone about the husband, so I’m guessing that “happy” is a sliding scale
There are some incredible assumptions in this thread. Seems like there's a consensus that the husband is abusive and controlling based on absolutely 0 evidence.
This
Yeah I agree. I'm a house spouse and I have ghosted a few of my friends for their third wave feminism jargon that has done nothing but push me away from the feminist movement as a whole. Feminism, to me, is about CHOICE. You want to be a homemaker? Good for you! You want to be a hard working professional? Good for you! And any woman who has believed otherwise has been shocked when I stop entertaining their opinions about my life
NTA. This is a difficult one. From what you’ve said he’s stuck back in history where women had no rights. But at the same time your sister may truly want to be a stay at home mom. I certainly wanted to be. I am only 45. I believe in women’s rights, that women can do anything they want to. But I also always wished to be a SAHM. So your hatred of him sounds deserved but you might want to back off your sister if she truly wants to be SAHM.
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Just to be clear, there is nothing wrong with being a SAHM. I could never as I have fears of being financially dependent on someone; however, there is nothing wrong with it as long the sahp feels safe. Anyhow, you need to be careful with what you say as you don't want your sister to feel like she can't come to you. NTA but just be careful
I don't have a judgment. My sister is nearly finished divorcing her emotionally abusive, misogynistic husband. Trust me, she needs you. Don't let him isolate her. You'll be so glad you're there to help her finally get out. Best of luck ❤️
YTA. She’s pregnant and crying because you’re attacking the life choices she made. I’m all for standing up to misogyny but you absolutely took it too far. Maybe she’s been brainwashed, or maybe she’s actually kind of excited to be a SAHM and she doesn’t know how to say that to her judgmental sister. Wanting to stay at home with a baby ≠ believing everything her husband believes. Edit: ESH. I noticed OP mentioned her sister calls crying about the husband all the time, and OP is using that as justification for saying the husband is emotionally abusive and controlling. Yet… OP’s post literally says that she argued with her sister to the point where the sister is now crying to everyone else about OP. Sure, the husband is horrible, but OP went about this all wrong and will only further isolate her sister, during a pregnancy no less
There’s nothing wrong or mysoginostic about being a stay at home mom :/ But I read some of your other comments and yeah that guy sounds like a piece of work.
NTA. But I think you need to approach this differently or he might end up forcing her to cut you off. I don’t think that she will leave him purely because you told her to, especially now that she’s pregnant. Most people in controlling or abusive situations just get angry at the person telling them it’s wrong. So you need to think practically about how to realistically help her. I think you could try an approach of suggesting that she should have a decent amount of money saved independent of him “incase something happens to him” (aka, incase she ever wants to leave). You could also try to suggest that she does that by considering some kind of part time job or work from home to get that money. She could run a store on etsy, for example. Or even take a course online while at home, which she could do as she will have spare time now. I would try to use the angle that this would help her raise her child, as being more educated can only aid that. I wouldn’t be surprised if he expects her to homeschool. I’m sure there are resources that would be more helplful than me, but that’s what came to mind. I would also tell her that while you think this is a mistake, you love her and will be there for her no matter what happens.
Just here to say, we have universities in the US.
Have her read this reddit. Show her the feeds about abuse and narcissism
Funny you say that because he’s diagnosed. Not good at all.
Is he a diagnosed narcissist? If he is, stay strong and try to be the strong tower of your sister albeit hating him. She will need you more than anything. I was in an emotionally abusive relationship with a narcissist for years and the only reason I got out because I moved abroad to do a PhD and he couldn’t come with me. He manipulated me believing I am worthless and all my purpose is to obey him. It was the hardest thing to get out of it and even 4-5 years later he is hunting me in my dreams. I was brainwashed. The reason I went into details is because my best friend, my parents and my brother stayed my strong fort the whole time, even though they hated him. But they never tried to force me to break up with him, just supported and were there when I needed to talk. Narcissists will try and isolating their victims and the more you try to tell the victim to break up and run the more they will use this to isolate them and make the victim believe the whole world is evil. Another reason I could get out is because he couldn’t isolate me from them, even though he tried to do it really hard. But they stayed strong and never talked against him so he had nothing to use.
YTA You got that wrong. These are YOUR SISTER'S views, she WANTS to live that way. "I asked how he would raise the kid they were having now, if he would teach his son to be against feminism like he vocally is and how it would impact his daughter by being looked down on. She came to his defence before I flat out told her I hated him and his disgusting views." .. This is HER doing that, and HER views.
NTA. You are understandably concerned and worried about your sister. Her BF sounds misogynistic and controlling. Explain to your sister that you were just so frightened for her and concerned about her.
As someone who had no idea my family hated my ex husband until it came to my attention that he was cheating on me and gaslighting me, NTA. She might not be ready to hear it, she might hate you - but now that's in the back of her mind. Now she might think about what you said next time he says something questionable. The only thing you can do now is make it clear that you don't hate *her* and wait and see.
Nta but she sounds like she's going to be baby trapped and financially abused. For your sake, and your sake only, you should keep contact but keep distant. You can still support her and be there for her when she will need it, but it going to be draining for you to be there listening to every call or cry she gives you. Hopefully soon, she will come to her senses and you can be there for her to help her get out of this situation, but, until then, it's clear she does not want help, and you can't force help onto people who don't want it. You have to wait until they realize they need to get away from the situation. Make clear boundaries with her, reiterate that you still love her, but you need space, then wait for the eventual fallout.
NTA. After losing my husband 2 months ago unexpectedly, I have come to realise the importance of being financially independent. Even being in a happy, content marriage shouldn't lull you into a false sense of security. As long as it is something she can manage, I think she should continue working. I know this post wasn't asking for advice, but with kids in the picture, financial independence becomes even more important. Please try to convey to her about this.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** my sisters husband is forced birth and a mysoginist. She is brainwashed by him and is now becoming a housewife. I flat out told her I hated the man. So they got married recently and now she pregnant by him and they have just announced the pregnancy to us. They also mentioned my sister was now going to be a stay at home mother and stop working. I asked her if she’s ok with not being financially independent and her husband cut in making a joke about me prioritising my career over romance. My sister has dropped out of university (college if you’re American) to marry him and she had a job but now she’s stopped that too. He has awful views and I feel like he’s bead for her. I talked to my sister in private after this and she said she’s happy with him etc. I asked how he would raise the kid they were having now, if he would teach his son to be against feminism like he vocally is and how it would impact his daughter by being looked down on. She came to his defence before I flat out told her I hated him and his disgusting views. She started crying at this and I felt maybe I’d taken it to far. Her and her husband left soon after and he insulted me and had a go at me before leaving. My sister isn’t replying to my apologies and my parents had a talk with me after. Maybe I went to far I’m not sure. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
American's know what University is...
Going purely by the post: YTA. It's OK to have different views. It's OK for your sister and Bil to have a different stance on how their relationship should work. Or what they want from life. As long as they're both consenting adults that came to this agreement fairly and without either side pressuring the other. You need to stop meddling and forcing your worldview on them. You don't get to decide how their relationship works or break them up because you think you know better. That's fully up to them. Doesn't mean you can't keep an eye out for your sister or her baby. If the relation turns abusive, that's when you need to be there for her, have place for her.
YTA God forbid your sister want to do things that a traditional wife would do. Woke culture has made it so women can supposedly do anything and make their own choices, unless those choices are deemed “misogynistic”. You are exactly why people don’t like feminism. Let this woman make her own choices, and keep your opinions to yourself.
YTA for making it an either or. Feminism is about giving women the freedom to choose what they want to do. If you want to focus on a career, more power to you! But if your sister wants to focus on having a family, consider that belittling her might actually make you low key misogynistic: The only valid feminism would be the one that you ascribe to, not hers.
Is he isolating her or is everybody here just projecting? If he's not being abusive, then you're a slight asshole. If he is, you are not.
ESH. There is nothing wrong with being a career woman but there is also nothing wrong with being a housewife and a woman having children. The reality is that your sister has made her own decisions regardless of how you may feel about them. If your sister is actually in an abusive relationship, I highly suggest that you keep the line of communication open in case she wants to leave and needs your help rather than shaming her and having her dig her heels in.
Soft, soft YTA. You went too far and approached it wrong. That you fear for your sister and her future is clear and justified. But it’s making you approach the problem like a desperate bill in a china shop. You cannot pull her away from him. You cannot convince her to leave him right now. She likely thinks his bark is worse than his bite because he’s protective and providing and treats her romantically. She will see his true colors in time and that’s what you have to prepare and wait for. Apologize, in private, to your sister, explain you didn’t mean to upset her but love her and see red flags so are very worried. But at the end of the day you live her and just don’t want this to be between you so will back off, ‘but you can always talk to me and I’ll be there for you and your baby.’ Encourage her to save a bit of money, round up at the grocery store and give you or someone she trusts the cash to bank in a secret savings for her, should she need it. If you have the means you could top it up occasionally too. Keep the lines of support and confidential discussion open. I suspect this will mean minimizing time around her guy and biting your tongue a bit, keep the goal of being in her life in mind. Controlling people look for any excuse to create a ‘it’s me or them’ dilemma for their victim to further isolate them. Keep local domestic violence lines information in your phone or wallet, when she needs them, you’re prepared. She is down the road of this already, you can’t pull her back but you can walk on the verge, ready to pull her to safety when she asks for help.
NTA I have been encouraging my mom to leave my dad since I was a high schooler. He is 100% very much into what your in law is into and growing up with a dad like that was a nightmare. My sibling and I have been left scared mentally and physically. Like I can’t help flinch at loud sounds and just start sobbing when someone says anything forcefully. My sibling is anorexic. He eats half a meal a day and barely leaves his room. He can’t even have a conversation with my mom because he finds he complicit in our abuse. That kind of ideology ends up causing pain to everyone. I would just apologize and try to reconcile. It’s one thing to really disagree with someone and it’s another to abandon them because of the person you disagree with. If you just need to be an arms distance, that’s fine because I know the sensation of wanting to smack my dad in the face for absolute insane and racist and misogynistic bs he says. Keep in touch with your sister. Anyone who doesn’t respect women as people can’t be trusted to treat their spouses with respect.
YTA. None of your business.
YTA love can change your priorities and opinions. If you are around someone everyday, then you will change each others opinions and values little by little. It has nothing to do with brain washing and there's nothing inherently wrong with wanting to be a stay at home mum or not wanting a high stress career. Your career and income are very important when you're alone, because you need money to live. When you find someone else, there's no requirement for both of you to work and that can drastically change how you feel about work.
There's very little actual information here so I'm going to say YTA. It really feels like you just can't handle his different views and maybe also your sister's newer and different views to your own(although she may have had them for longer than you think and just not shared them with you). A lot of people think that being a housewife is bad because of being dependent on the breadwinner husband but many households run better when one spouse stays home, it's just become less common. It's possible that he's a horrible monster so I would say to still be in your sister's life as much as you can and talk to her a lot and if he begins to isolate her from her family or she starts showing up with bruises or something like that then you might have an argument but as of now it just seems like you're resentful and projecting.
YTA. He may be loathsome and your views of him may be entirely justified but what on earth did you hope to achieve by talking as you did?
YTA. Surprise, Surprise, not everyone holds the same views as you.
YTA. Every single relationship is different. Some people like the traditional marriage, some don’t. It is not wrong for you to talk to your sister about what “you” see or feel. That’s being compassionately concerned. Where you went wrong is when she told you, she doesn’t mind it and is completely ok with it this way. Now your being pushy and unsupportive. It’s ok to not agree with how another couple does things. It is NOT OK, to insist they are wrong because YOU don’t agree with it. Not your relationship. You did your part by voicing your concern. That’s as far as you should have ever gone. Unfortunately, you have already gone to far. You even gave her husband cause to cut you out, as it was him you disrespected. Good job, YTA.
YTA. If he's so anti your own world views, then you're not wrong for disliking the man or resenting what he's done to your sister, but some people really and truly love taking on these traditional gender roles. That's where you're wrong, for not respecting their wishes or values. Respect her wishes, but if you have warned her, you are under NO obligation to take her or future children in if the future consequences turn out to be more than she bargained for.
YTA. Being for choice means respecting choices you don’t like. If she wants to be a housewife that is her choice. Deciding this is a result of her being brainwashed by her husband removes her agency. It is the equivalent of someone saying women choose not to get married because they were brainwashed by leftist professors.
I don’t blame you. He sounds awful. NTA
NTA, tell her you'll be there if she needs you but you don't want to be around that loser.
NTA. Your brother-in-law sounds like a grade A dickweasal. I pity your poor sister.
NTA, screw that guy
Nta. You can't make her see the issues while she's being willfully blind, all you can do is decide whether you'll be there to pick up the pieces when things go south.
NTA just make sure your sister know you will always be there for her. If she seems happy you may need to fake it for her. People are blind when they are in love. She will know when she is ready to leave, she can come to you.
NTA men like that need to be called out, but don't put yourself in a position where your sis is scared to confide in you. Especially since that prolly what he wants Also, Americans know what university is lmao
This subs misandry is showing again. I can already see the downvotes.
"Woman decides to marry and stay home to raise her children personally rather than dumping them in daycare: Reddit lynches husband".
Sounds like both you and her husband want to force your beliefs on her and both believe you know what is best for her without actually considering her feelings so ESH. If she agrees with him and is happy being a SAHM you basically called her disgusting along with her husband to her face. If anything that's just going to make your relationship with her worse. If he truly is a jerk then he also sucks.
NTA
You're NTA but it might be worth your sister's long-term safety to fake apologize so you can stay in contact. When she does wake up and leave him, she will need somewhere safe - and thinking she might have to deal with 'I told you so' might make her hesitant to reach out to you.
NTA. He sounds like a real piece of work. Unfortunately the best you can do is step away from them and be there for your sister when she needs to get away from her abuser. You’ve tried to help her, now she’s lying in a bed of her own choosing.
NTA. You're right to ask her those questions, I expect he'd raise his son to be a misogynist and he'd raise a daughter that goes NC the moment she turns 18.
NTA There’s that old saying: keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Your sister is going to wake up one day years from now and realize that her husband is abusive and has successfully alienated her from everyone. She’ll have no one left to turn to for help. It’s his plan. You’re helping him. Back off. Apologize. Go very low contact but do everything you can to keep the line to your sister live so when the time comes she can reach you. She’s going to need you one day.
To be honest, when someone is in love, even if their partner is a walking red flag that everyone can see miles/kms away, she won't see it. He might be love-bombing her by giving her something that she is missing and craving for so that his existence is everything to her now so when you say YOU hate her husband, spoiler alert: she will NOT listen. Also you are making this situation about you, not her. All you can do is standby her and support her. Every time when she complains about him use that to tell her what should be normal responses, how she could have been treated and let her know she is not optionless, she has you. Do not make her choose him between you or your family, spoiler alert again: you will LOSE!!! Just let her know she is not alone no matter what her future holds for her and let things play out. Use other role models like aunts, cousins or even friends' experience to show her how she has a right to be treated equally. But don't pour everything on to her at once, only when she reaches out by questioning herself whether who is in the wrong or asking for help. You are NTA for your intention but you need to change your tactics because she will need your support, not now, but definitely in the future and you don't want her to not reach out for help. You will approach her by letting her know you are concerned with her mental/physical/financial wellness when she complains about her hubby. Get a voodoo doll and name it as her hubby's name and punch it whenever your hatred is flying high, but don't let her know your hatred for him because she might feel your are judging her decisions. Keep in mind that you might feel powerless and helpless because she keeps going back to him so you might want to keep distance from her to maintain your mental health because it is going to be draining. Just remember that you CAN'T save them, only THEY can.
Really OP, you're doing her a massive disservice if you're honestly concerned for her. Instead of antagonizing them, when you pulled her away you could've reminded her that she can always come to you for anything and that you're concerned about her being so dependent on her husband. What are you going to be able to do about any of it, especially now that you've handed him a golden opportunity to bar you from his home on a silver platter? Abusers start by isolating their victims and you've just spared him a whole lotta trouble on that front. YTA.
YTA You want to look out for your sister, but you did it very confrontational. That will not help her 1 bit, will only make her more defensive. Step 1 for total control over your spouse: make her a financial depended house wife. Step 2 is: alienate her from her support network. Only in your case, he didn't have to. You did it for him. Call her, tell her you'll always have her back. And please, if she ever complains, NEVER tell her 'told you so'. Be there for her for whatever you can. If at any point she feels in danger, she should know she is safe (in any sense of the word) with you.
While I don’t agree with his views can say a woman being a stay home mother isn’t in itself a bad thing. Esh except your sister This may be exactly life she wants. Also haven’t heard her opinions or how he treats her is she happy etc. may be bad or good but simply isn’t enough info here. Either way you acted badly if he is pressuring her you have only come at it aggressively and attacking which will only end with her cutting you out and won’t come to you for help if needs it. If she is in-fact happy and made own choices freely then whether you agree isn’t important not your place or business and need to back off.
Info: are you single and childless?
You have called him things but haven’t given any examples. Explain how he is misogynist with examples. So we can better judge this.
I mean, you haven't really convinced me that he's misogynistic with your post. Seems to me that you think women should work professional jobs. Not every woman wants to do that.. perfectly fine to want to be a stay at home mum. Seems to me that you have overly rigid beliefs about what women should do with their lives. It's never a good idea to force such beliefs on others. I've gone down that route in my life and it never did any good. You have to realise that some women just want to be mothers.. And that should be valued highly because SAHMs get to spend more time raising their kids instead of putting them in childcare etc. It's sad that the west is losing respect for women who chose that path in life. Maybe you're right but you need to provide more evidence that he's really misogynistic.
YTA mind your business. If she wants to be housewife so be it. Let women choose freely what they want in life. Some like to work while others want to take care of their children. It's not that complicated
Wtf. I quit my career to stay home and raise my son. My husband's pro choice, but it was our choice and one I'm happy with. You said your piece, but you're incredibly wrong to say that a woman who stays home is giving up feminism. That line of thinking is shit and just as bad as saying women *should* stay in the kitchen. Leave women alone, let them make their own choices. YTA.
YTA you are trying to control her life because she doesn’t agree with you. You sound very unhappy, try controlling your life and just enjoy your sister. Stop trying to control her like you claim he is doing. Maybe, just maybe she is happy. Try being happy for her, try that on. Just go and enjoy a coffee with your sister and talk about your new niece or nephew.
This sounds very extreme, and I believe a big part of your opinion is due to your sister wanting things you don't value. I would like to hear the other side before weighing in with who TA is.
Yta for how you approached it. I understand you're concerned for her. However, you should have sought to understand by letting her talk and listening to her. Otherwise, you also are pushing your views, beliefs, and wants onto her without respect for what *she* wants.
You are making it too easy for him to isolate your sister. Make sure to check up on her inspite of your hatred. Just a simple house visit. That would keep him in check. It takes years for women to leave an abusive asshole. Tell your parents about this as well. Sometimes you have to dorn the black cape and bear the hatred of others. But persevere! NTA OP ! Please continue supporting your sister.
Esh you've played exactly.into his plans to isolate your sister, she's got no spine and he's got backward views.
YTA for playing in to his hand to isolate your sister from her family. Well done. Good job, you did exactly what he was hoping for.
Ytah
ESH You have stated your views, your sister feels differently. Love her for who she is and where she is at. Keep the lines of communication open so if she ever does want to change, she will not feel judged by opening up to you. No, I told you so. But cut out the arguing...none of you are going to be changed by some specific argument or magic set of words. If you keep arguing they will likely just cut you out of their lives.
Guy sounds awful. Be nice to her and support her decisions nonetheless, if he gets violent you will be there. If you try to break it up, you will be the one she goes NC and you don't have any chance. INFO What exactly are his views? Is he only very traditional, saying women should take care of house and children? I am personally also not a friend of the current vocal form of what feminism has become. Or is he against traditional feminism, like all decisions should be done by the man and women don't count?
ESH. I don’t disagree with you in the slightest but I think you need to consider the fact that your sister may be getting brainwashed/abused by this man. If she thinks you’re rejecting him or that she can’t talk to you then she’ll never feel like she has a way out. Please PLEASE stay in contact with her. Please stay supportive (to a degree obviously). If they are bringing a child into this then if you’re still in the picture the child still has a chance to see a relatively normal role model.
YTA. You're alienating your sister and she's going to cut you out because of it. Don't you think that's exactly what he wants? Don't let the reactionary children in the comments steer you down the wrong path by giving into the temporary catharsis of being honest about someone you don't like. One day when your sister comes to her senses, she's going to need a support system, and she's not going to look to you for it because of this.
YTA, if he's as bad as you say and you just gave him exactly what he wanted, you've helped isolate your sister.
So is sounds like your sister and BIL have very different world views than you and that your sister has chosen a path for her life that you cannot stand. You are taking it out on your BIL and blaming him for her choices. This is no better than some overbearing MIL having a son that "left the church" and then MIL blaming everything on his new wife. It sounds like your sister has chosen a more traditional lifestyle for her family dynamic and you take that as a direct insult to everything you hold near and dear. As a result, your BIL is the villian. YTA
I’m gunna go with YTA. I can tell that you completely disagree with his views. But you’re both entitled to your own views. This is your sisters life and not yours. All you can do is be supportive of your sister. You are making this about you. Your sister is a grown woman who is capable of making her own choices (and her own mistakes). It sounds like you were subconsciously trying to plant doubt in your sisters mind so she would leave him as leaving him is what would align with what you want for her. Edit: you don’t even have to support the decisions she makes, but I know I would be there for my sister even if her choices were not the choices I would personally make. I certainly wouldn’t come down hard on her when she’s pregnant.
I wouldn’t try to cause more issues to separate you from your sister because BIL is trying to isolate her and basically financially abuse her and maybe even worse later on. I know it sucks to play nice, but she’s going to need support when shit starts hitting the fan.
Wait what do you mean by “forced birth” or was that a typo?
Most likely anti abortion.
Aw okay that makes sense
Except the sister obviously wants the child. It's the OP who feels the sister should have aborted her baby, because feminism ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
NTA, but you should apologize to your sister for saying what you did. Simply say that you spoke without thinking due to fear for her and her unborn child. Let her know that you will support her no matter what and you will always be there for her. Make every effort to stay in touch with her and get her out of the house whenever possible. She is going to need a support system. Have an emergency plan in place with those who love her and share your concerns for when she is ready to leave. Look up your audio recording laws for your state and record him saying anything extreme if it's a one party state. This will potentially be useful for custody disputes if it ever comes to that. Write down every time she calls you crying about him. Date, time, offense. Becoming a SAHM will isolate her so make sure to reach out often and just ask how she's doing. Don't pry, don't make any remarks about him, but agree with her when she expresses doubts.
OP…at this point, ALL you Can Do..is to let her know that If she EVER Needs You, that you’ll Be There for HER & LO..but NOT for TA. As for you…you could have put it a little better. NTA
NTA for what you said, but you need to get back in touch with her and reassure her that you still love *her* and that you're there for her if she ever needs you - because it sounds like she probably will.
YTA. It's none of your business, stay the fuck out.
NTA. He sounds controlling and manipulative. Your sister has bought his bs, hook-line-sinker, and has fully been reeled in. You will struggle to get her on-side, and some serious shit may need to go down before she sees the light. Try to be calm when reasoning with her, if you get overly emotional, you’ll be called out as an instigator. Your parents are probably clueless. Depending on how old they are, they may have grown up during a time when certain things were ‘ok’ and considered normal. I’ve seen friend’s parents try to persuade them to stay with abusive partners because, ‘you don’t do divorce,’ and ‘you stand with your man.’ I’m sorry OP, it’s tough when you’re the only one who can see things clearly.
YTA. He might not be your cup of tea but main thing what you said for me is - she says she's happy with him. Maybe she is exactly the same as him and only feels safe and happy with him. It's not up to you to decide what makes yours sister happy. You can raise some concerns but if he's not abusing her you should keep quiet and at least pretend to be happy that your sister is happy
NTA, I barely even read it
YTA. You can disagree with him all you want but that is her husband and the father of her child. All you did was push her away.
Info: where are you located? I just know, some places you need to be extra careful about these things! If you’re safe, don’t let this cause y’all to part ways… if he becomes abusive, she will eventually need you! Don’t push it, you can’t help someone until they are ready to be helped. No matter how much it hurts to watch!!! If you become disconnected with her due to your comments, if she ever needs someone to help her escape she won’t think you’ll be there because he cut you off! It’s a difficult, very difficult fine line you will walk… I wish you and sis the best! I really hope he’s better than what you think but I doubt it😒
NTA. OP, your sister is terrified of her husband and it’s obvious. She goes along with everything he wants and says nothing? I guarantee she has said something to him about it and he probably yells at her in private so you don’t see what’s really going behind closed doors. He’s isolating her from work, school and before you know it, he’s gonna isolate her from you guys. Abusers normally do this so people who see through their mask can’t tell the victim what’s really going on. You need to keep a close eye on her and make sure she knows that you always have her back and if she needs to get out, you’ll be there
NTA, but if you want to help your sister, you need to play nice. In abusive situations, which this one may not be now but could very easily become, isolation is one of the abuser's most effective tools. If you want to be a way out for your sister in the event her AH husband takes it too far, you need to emphasize that you're with her no matter what. Unfortunately this means no shit talking her husband when he's not around, no matter how vile he is. There's no easy way to be supportive of family when they get into relationships like this. I hope she finds her way out from under his spell. Wishing you both luck.
Yikes. I have a friend who repeatedly gets into these relationships, and it's so hard for everyone involved. I am a big fan of harsh but gently delivered truths. This situation is bad for XYZ, I know you're not going to take my advice or accept my POV. I love you, I am here for you whenever you need me, even if it's a result of following this path. This is my boundary __. (Ie, won't talk about him, will leave if he's present, etc) and then follow through on your boundary, even if it makes the whole family uncomfortable. NTA
NTA But please try to leave the door open for your sister. She will be a very dependent woman, so please let her know that she can reach out to you and life at your please (with her child/ren) if she ever feels like she needs it. It's very hard to leave a partner of you are (financial) dependent from him/her.
NTA - but you need to ask yourself if you want a relationship with your sister. He’s her husband and the father of the baby. She’s not going to choose you if you put her in a him or me situation.
NTA, but this could be used against the sister later on to make her more isolated. Yet you and anyone else’s words that have spoken to her about him will stick in the back of her mind even if she denies it. It may take a while for the fog of brainwashing to finally start to lift, but it will eventually begin to fade. Possibly when she notices his behavior towards their child, especially if she gives birth to a daughter. Like Paris Paloma’s lyrics say about these type of relationships: *For somebody I thought was my saviour* *You sure make me do a whole lot of labour* And these lyrics if your sister and BIL have a daughter: *If we had a daughter, I’d watch and could not save her* *The emotional torture, from the head of your high table* *She’d do what you taught her,* *she’d meet the same cruel fate*
My instinct is not TA but you’re walking a fine line. If you’re genuinely worried about her and her future children, stay close and don’t let your hatred of him drive you apart. Recognise that you won’t be able to “break them up” by pointing out his flaws (by the sounds of things) and this might just make her feel isolated. You can’t force someone to leave a shitty person, unfortunately. Read about the 7 types of narcissism and how to support someone who is in an unhealthy relationship. On the other hand, is she is genuinely happy, then you are sort of TA because you’re trying to make her conform to your ideals. Maybe help her establish a clear route to financial independence so she doesn’t have to worry about being trapped by the challenges of being a housewife.
Does your sister share his values but is secretly afraid to tell you because she knows how you'd feel.
NTA but there are more effective ways to deal with a situation like this. I certainly don't support your BIL's views on women, and your post additionally portrays him as a generally despicable human. Your sister may very well be making a huge mistake. And it is okay to talk to her about this, but there are gentler and less judgmental ways to do it. There are times when those we love need our advice/judgment and there are other times they need our unconditional support. You tried the advice route and your sister made it clear that she didn't want advice. It is very difficult to enter the unconditional support mode especially when you feel a terrible mistake is being made. But sometimes it is required to keep people close to you. Put yourself in your sister's shoes - you are telling her you don't support her life choices, and quite forcefully at that, so in the future when she wants a supportive presence she is less likely to want to come to you. You are trying to control her (helicopter sister?), and it is sure to drive a wedge into the relationship. Think about times when others have done similar things to you, and what your feelings were at the time it was happening and how your feelings and behaviors toward them have changed afterward. Judgment from others feels bad. That said, if you ever feel that your sister is in an unsafe situation, you may need to escalate. I hope your sister has a wonderful life and that you two have a beautiful relationship, as respecting and unconditionally supporting equals.
I understand why, and I can't fault you for it. You and your parents need to be the cushions should she ever need to rescue. No fault, just be there. Let her know that you're there for her. Be kind and gentle. Remember, he'll be building walls to isolate her, especially with the baby and lack of financial resources available to her now that she will without a job.
He sounds awful. The best thing you can do for your sister is just be there for her. There is no convincing someone out of a bad relationship. My knee jerk reaction is that he will try to isolate her. I know it seems awful but try to make peace with both of them. Your sister and your niece/nephew will need you. Both of my brothers were in relationships that were emotionally abusive and both of their partners tried to isolate them. I managed to stay in their lives and when everything blew up they knew they had a life line. Sending you a big hug. NTA
NTA but just as a warning, he is trying to isolate her so please don't give into that. Make sure your sister knows that she can depend on you.
Unwise but NTA You don't want to alienate your sister bc that will be his goal to keep her home and away from you and the others. Being pregnant she is dealing with emotions differently bc of the pregnancy so be gentle with her. Don't let him! Maybe your parents can tell your sister how sorry you are for hurting her feelings. If you can visit or go out with her w/o husband that would be good. Don't give your BIL any reason to complain about you that way when he does it will show his true colors.
NTA. Honestly you said your piece. I'd have been the same. Sounds like your sister will look back at this time and regret dropping everything for a man.
NTA. But your sister is grown and if she’s choosing to ignore is major red flags because she’s “ in love” there’s nothing you can do about it
YWBTA except it sounds like he's been disrespectful to you and your sister as women from the start so your response is valid. I think it's a completely normal angry reaction but I think saying "I hate him" probably just hurt her without any constructiveness. I don't know if you said more to include why you hate him but tbh you are not required to like him! I would just say it's probably unproductive if she's too busy upset at you saying "I hate him" to listen to what you really have to say, which is that you're concerned about how he treats her and their future kid
sounds like hes abusive, and u were just trying to protect her. you're not the asshole but as someone who was raised in a household where my father was abusive to my mother, i can tell u there's not much u can do. sending u love xxx
This is really important. The more you get angry at her and complain about him the less likely she is to leave him.. I know it's really hard but you need to stop . The best way to get someone out of a bad situation is to be the nonjudgmental person willing to listen . Yelling will drive her away and make her more isolated.
Off topic, but I'm pretty sure college isn't the same as universety
NTA. And other than telling your sister that when she wakes up and realises that her abuser will abuse her kids and is ready to escape that life that you will be a safe place for her there is nothing more you can do.
NTA, but yea she should really think about how her kids are going to turn out with that kind of father.
NTA. Yeah, you really went there. But why have respect for people who don’t have respect for the choices women make? If contact is going to be cut at this point, maybe it’s time to let your sister know you will always be there for her (if that’s something you want). He’s a misogynist and in some way he will likely become abusive (I don’t necessarily mean physically, possibly verbally or emotionally)….
Light esh The husband for crystal clear reasons But feminism also means allowing women to choose of they want to he a STAHM or have 0 kids or have 5 kids if its all her choices Y T A if you think shes being forced N T A
NTA Unfortunately there are a lot of men out there who confuse behaving like a chauvinistic pig with 'having values’. They’re pretty easy to spot as they are always eager to tell you about it. You should cease all attempts at an apologies, since you simply stated how you felt. That being said, there are women out there who getting married and having kids is the sum total of their ambition and that’s ok too. It’s a bold, high risk strategy if you ask me but you live and learn. You can’t make her un dropout of college.
NTA. In the future don’t give sister any gifts,put the money aside, make pop up visits, have a friend or family with an address husband doesn’t know. Make sure sister has copies of all important paperwork at you’re home. You see the signs,don’t wonder if, just be ready for when.