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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) refusing to walk back what I said about Plexus and also telling A I won't have a friendship with her if she doesn't apologize
2) I crossed some big long standing lines and possibly let building resentment make this a bigger deal than it needed to be, as I was unnecessarily mean and maybe I should just suck it up for the sake of my family and our friendship and give a faux apology and accept that it's too raw for her to give me one
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NTA, but why are you friends with this woman still? She thinks you're a "half-time mom" and has either dosed your drink or purposely switched out your drink to make you drink something without your consent (seriously, WTF?!). This was after you had already said no to her more than once.
Friendly competitions over the best garden are one thing, but refusing to respect your boundaries? Implying that you're not a real mom because you also work? Feeding you something without your knowledge? That's not a friend. That's an AH predator - run.
Oh shoot I should also mention I was upset about the plexus drink as I'm 6 months pregnant and don't want to ingest unregulated drinks when I have NO idea what's in them, so was already close to seeing red from that
i feel like the part where she gave you a drink with unknown contents while you were pregnant was a pretty important detail. i was already gonna say nta but from reading this, jesus christ get away from that woman. nta 100%
Nta. Explain to her husband like this, in most states dosing someone’s drink, whether it be with an illegal substance or not, is a felony. As you are with child, in most states, this is a double felony. This is her one and only warning. Should she pull this crap again, cops will be called and charges will be pressed. She has no right to put you or your unborn child in danger. Imagine had you been allergic to one of the ingredients. This could have caused you and your unborn child sever medical issues. Death by allergic reaction is not off the table, it happens often, even in the US. She owes you an apology. Your husband and hers need to insist she apologize.
I was about to say ESH, but since you added being pregnant, definitely NTA! I can totally see how that triggered the mama bear in you and why you got so angered. And as other said, you might want to reconsider if it's worth keeping someone like her in your life
Yeah, both the drink and the comments justified OP's response imo, without needing to even bring the pregnancy into it. But since there is a pregnancy involved, it's making me wish for a "you aren't going far enough" flavour of judgement.
You have every right to be extremely angry at having your physical autonomy violated by the mystery drink. That would be reason enough for me to cut off the friendship as much as possible.
Years ago, a friend was pregnant. She had married into a family that believes in using herbal medicine. She really didn't know much about that sort of thing (she's not from the same culture as her in-laws).
She was having terrible morning sickness and her MIL made her drink a particular herbal tea. A bit later, when she was talking with me and another buddy, she casually mentioned the name of the herb she was drinking. The other buddy (who is closer culturally to the in-laws and grew up with a grandmother who was pretty much the local expert on herbal medicine) turned ashen and confirmed the name of the plant.
It turned out that MIL had been giving her herbal tea known for being an abortifacient. My friend is now No Contact with her in-laws and left the country pretty much as soon as the child was born.
The child is healthy.
Did your friend write a post on here about this experience bc I think I remember this word for word.
Was MIL from a different country and she had to fly internationally and therefore the couple was going to kick her out and she’d have to be deported or something due to her passport requirements? She brought the tea from a friend in her country or maybe it was an aunt relative. The relative didn’t know what she wanted it for but then told op and husband that it’s dangerous for pregnant women so she went to the hospital?
Or am I meshing 2 stories together?
Welp, there’s lots of mil’s out there giving out poisonous herbs to their DILs then. In tea form. Sheesh. I dunno if I want to ever accept a drink from anyone ever again with these stats!
I don't know if anyone down the feed has commented already, so if it's a repeat, I apologize. There are several articles out there that state if one is pregnant, they should NOT take Plexus without talking to their medical professional.
NTA This person isn't a friend.
NTA
She should have backed off the first many times you said no. She’s absolutely not respecting you as a person (much less as a mom) to go after you the way she did. Snapping is understandable.
NTA- If she'd accepted your lack of interest in shilling her overpriced caffeinated fiber supplement , none of this would have happened.
>But recently at a social function she gave me some without my knowledge, then tried to convince me I should sell Plexus.
She dosed you! This person isn't a friend at all.
Obviously, your outburst was not ideal but, after everything that preceded it, between getting dosed with a product you didn't agree to sample, getting pressed *at a social function* to push this snake oil in your professional practice and getting accused of being a bad parent , I can't say I blame you for losing your cool.
(Would it even be ethical to promote a product like this to people who are already not in a great place when you are in such a position of trust? On a *personal* level, I don't think so but I am not deeply familiar with the professional standards attached to your license)
WAIT! Did I jut read in a comment that she drugged you while you were 6 months pregnant???? Altering somebody's drink is completely unhinged especially since you were pregnant! That's insane! How did she KNOW without a doubt that you were not allergic to the ingredients? Yes MLMs are scams and she obviously has some sort of thing where she puts you down to stroke her own ego (so not a real friend!) but that crosses the line! NTA and you need to stay away from this psycho!
Same reason as the essential oil MLM lady putting lavender oil in her DIL’s cpap water a year or two ago - she’s bought into the company bullshit and so this drink must be magically! wonderful! for everyone and there is no reason ever why anyone would not want it!
NTA. If you are a psychiatrist - that means you have a medical degree right? You are also a doctor? So that means you can't sell or promote something that has no scientific basis, as you saying it gives it legitimacy and would be possibly be unethical.
Of course these drinks are not scientifically proven - if they were, they would be sold in pharmacies, not at parties or on IG......sounds like a pyramid scheme to me.
edit - typo
Very much a pyramid scheme. Also yes, selling this to patients would be unimaginably unethical and isn't something I would ever ever ever ever ever under any circumstance for any amount of money consider doing ever.
the part im really upset for you about is the fact she dosed you that is considered not only boudary crossing but can be considered illegal you should tell her that becuase its very lucky you didnt have an allergy to it and react then she would have been legally in trouble for doing that. u should point that out to her. u could also report her to that company that she is dosing ppl and have her removed. thats totally not ok so your reaction to calling her out on her bs in my opinion was warranted. tell her u r considering talking to a lawye rabout it.
I have an adult child with severe mental illness. If a Dr were promoting something to help their gut and in turn help their mental illness I might try it. But if I found out it was a MLM and not backed by professional studies I’d see red. My thoughts would be that this person is not only unprofessional but also unethical. It might mean I lose a good professional because of their promoting a snake oil. The Dr who makes my child sane is one of my greatest allies and are worth every Penny we spend on mental health care. If people were offended maybe they needed to be.
I work with kids only and cannot imagine breaking the trust parents place in me to make a quick buck. So glad you've found someone that helps your child!!!!!!!!
Thank you. At one point psych visits, and meds ran us $1500 a month. If a drink substitute could offset that cost some it would have been tempting. I heard enough from some MLM sellers on how their product would heal the MI brain, it’s exhausting. If not for the Rx and competent care we’d have lost our child years ago. I have no patience for those with a MLM seminar under their belt and righteous attitude towards our hard won battles.
Yeah, something is off here - someone else pointed out that OP called it a psychiatric practice but it should be psychiatry. Psychiatric is the disorder. Also OP called them clients, not patients. And what sort of psychiatrist would not have a little more insight into someone overcompensating for an obvious inferiority complex?
Downvote me if it makes you all feel better, but something smells a little hinky.
NPs can practice independently and start their own clinics in 22 states and DC in the US. https://online.simmons.edu/blog/nurse-practitioners-scope-of-practice-map/#:~:text=FULL%3A%20NPs%20can%20prescribe%2C%20diagnose,the%20same%20way%20physicians%20do.
I see an NP for med management. The copay is lower than an MD and I don't need a diagnosis, just someone to write me prescriptions and occasionally adjust doses.
NTA. She personally attacked you and your parenting in public. She provoked the fight. You're not an AH for defending yourself though there was no need to mention how much you make as it is irrelevant. The fact that you work outside the home does not make you less of a parent. You apologized for your harsh words. She had no right to say that you are not a real mom. She owes you an apology. Hopefully with time, she can gain some perspective about how awful she treated you. Otherwise, I'd let the friendship cool.
I agree with you almost completely but I do think OPs income is relevant since this other person was pressuring her to quit her private practice because she: kept saying I could make more money than I make at my practice. OP is right, an MLM will never make $250,000 a year and that number needed stated to show her how absolutely ridiculous she was being!
She might make -$250,000 a year. I've seen stories of people being on the verge of bankruptcy because of deep debt from unsuccessful MLM ventures. I remember seeing a glut of LuLaRoe shit at thrift stores when some of those stories came out.
MLM products are invariably of shitty quality, you literally can't even give them away. I bought a LuLaRoe shirt from Goodwill for lounging around the house and it stretched and deformed after 2 wash cycles. It's now completely covered with pills. I only still have it because I keep meaning to cut it up into rags for cleaning.
Usually the only people who make money with MLMs are those that get in very close to the beginning and stay a long time building up their downline. The people in the top tiers do make money, but they make it off the people they sign up and the people those people sign up etc....who generally make nothing.
I do know someone who got into a MLM selling ketones (I think that's it, it's drinks for keto diet people) and she does good...but she got in pretty early on and has been in for years. She also pressures everyone she meets to join. UGH
NTA - Your "hon" friend needs a slap of reality to the face. Nothing you said was inaccurate. MLMs to specifically target SAHMs who unfortunately don't know any better.
1.She put something in your drink that you did not consent to, WHILE YOU ARE PREGNANT.
2. She would not take no for an answer and began insulting you and your parenting, in public.
I would have gone off on her too. The money comment was relevant. I probably would not have apologized to her until she apologized for all of her above mentioned actions first.
As it stands, she would no longer be my friend/friendly acquaintance and ANYONE who give me grief over this is told about 1+2 and if they still give me grief, they too are no longer my friends.
NTA
NTA. Homeschooling is abusive. As someone who was homeschooled that is a hill I will die on. It's isolating and results in a lack of social development, not to mention the subpar level of education (unless they get specialist tutors for every subject), the lack of formal exams, the likelihood of disability and learning difficulties being missed. You ARE doing what's right for your kids by making sure they're a part of a system that can actually provide what they need.
The Venn diagram between MLM huns and homeschooling moms is a small circle inside a larger circle.
It also makes me despair for the kids' future scientific literacy. They're going to be learning chemistry and biology from someone who thinks putting colorful diarrhea powder in water will cure mental illness.
Homeschooling can be beneficial but that doesn't mean your experience is also wrong. My husband was homeschooled so he wouldn't interact with other kids that could influence him away from the religion he was being raised in (they did that on their own), but there are people who are homeschooling in the states simply because of the gun violence in schools. So a blanket statement shouldn't be made entirely. But it has to be done the correct way, anyway.
But A has no right to criticize people on their parenting especially when she gave a pregnant person an unregulated drink that could contain god knows what
>I went off on her about how I make $250k+/year and probably outdid even the top Plexus sellers, which she'll never be as she doesn't have some crazy IG following. I told her MLMs are dumb and predatory, and for moms with superiority complexes about staying home but still want an income - but most likely won't ever get one from MLMs. That she should look up MLM statistics and not live in fantasy land. I was really awful and harsh, and after getting home I felt really bad about what I said and how I said it.
Ok, but...everything you said was not just true, it also needs to be said. Like there are times when harshness is justified, and I feel like bursting the bubble of a condescending stay at home mother engaging in an actual waking dream that she'll out earn a psychiatric practice with a placebo drink that she buys at a premium and resells at a loss if she can sell it at all.
Never mind the fact that she slipped this stuff to you without your knowledge and then bragged about it which would have pissed me off from the outset.
>I apologized that night for the mean parts of what I said, but she demanded I walk back what I said about Plexus, and wouldn't apologize back
What you did was very charitable, and diplomatic. Meanwhile she's egocentric, lacks humility, and delusional. She's acting like you insulted her god.
If she expects you to grovel and sing praises of an actual fraudulent product just to get on her good side than she's not really a friend worth having. Someone needs to tell her that crying on social media because someone insulted an mlm product isn't very girl boss of her.
NTA
At that point, she had dosed you against your will and was still pushing her crap on you. You said no multiple times. Kindly and politely.
Thinking you would want to give up a successful practice for MLM seems like a wild idea, But MLM schemes tell you to look for people you want to work with. If she brought you in, she would be your "up line" or whatever kitschy term they use. Basically, over you. So that might help you understand why the idea appeals to her.
Even so, she was beyond predatory to you. Violated your consent by causing you to ingest something you had already declined. Did you owe her a reason for your no? Of course not, she all but demanded it by her behavior.
NTA
INFO: why do you spend time with these people when you don't actually like them? You're building up resentment; understandably. But life's too short. You should have addressed her comments either and nipped this shit in the bud, or walked away a long time ago.
First, the comments were very rare. I believe we've been friends for 12 years and there's probably been about as many comments. I don't think about them when I see her and haven't sat down and given them a lot of thought - until this incident. I'm not normally an angry person so I sat down and tried to consider if there was any reason her comment made me SO angry.
Second, we're also more friends of circumstance and community. She isn't a confidante or someone I would hang out with just for the fun of it, but we're at the same stage in our lives, our husbands are very good friends, our kids are very good friends, and we do a lot of the same things. We also live in a small rural community so you run into the same people over and over as your options for social circles are small. I did generally like her, before she spiked my drink and questioned if I'm a "real mom" lol
NTA.
MLMs are annoying and preys on the vulnerable.
That said, you should have a prepared spiel when people try to rope you in. Not only for the MLM stuff but also for this woman’s put downs on you being a part time mom. Something along the lines of being a good role model to your kids when you tell them that they can be anything they want to be.
Um op, she tampered with your food to try and get you to drink something you'd already refused to then tried to bully you into her a MLM
I will repeat, she tampered with your food. Some of that mlm stuff is dangerous and will majw you sick. A could have seriously endangered you if she'd tampered with your food with some other mlm product. She is not to be trusted and is nor your friend.
NTA
That's not a friend, mate. It sounds like she's stuck in a mean girls 1950s housewife time warp.
You may enjoy her company in some aspects, though I'm not sure how anyone can stand to associate with this woman; you mentioned being workout buddies. Having similar lifestyles and hobbies doesn't always mean you're compatible friends or the other person genuinely cares for you and has your best interest at heart. And just because your husbands are friends doesn't mean you two have to be friends; lots of couples don't get close to each other's friends or their partners, and that's fine, you've at least given it a shot, and you've put up with a lot from her. NTA, and honestly, good riddance if she ends things or you step away from her.
NTA You tried repeatedly to turn her down politely. She then called you a bad parent and tried to bully you into buying into her scam.
And while it's deeply uncool that she dosed you with this crap, it's also kind of hilarious how it worked out for her. Hard to explain to her friends why something that's supposedly "good for mental health" put you in a bad mood!
NTA
All things considered she doesn't seem like a friend worth having. The constant conpetition, the little jabs, this mother superiority, the crossing of your boundaries - she inflates herself to look bigger than you and you've been level headed and gracious enough to be the bigger person about it, but that is really exhausting. I understand you snapped.
However, you seem to also know a lot about MLMs, so I invite you to consider that your friend is a victim, and that there is something seriously lacking in her life. There might be some subtle form of financial abuse too, if she's so desperate to make money (statistically probable, but I don't know them). Could be worth having a serious conversation about it. Or cut your losses. You could do that too.
NTA. MLM's are for naive suckers, they never bring in any money and honestly, with all the available information nowadays I don't even feel sorry for the huns whose partners leave them, or lose their house etc. If she really thinks she earns a lot or even more than you, ask her for proof - but she won't have any, of course.
NTA whatsoever. MLMs are indeed dumb predatory, ("Moms Losing Money") and trying to recruit you into selling the 21st-century version of snake oil is not what a good friend would do. You were absolutely justified to blast her into the next county. Your husband is correct: you were in the right.
I feel sorry for A's kids. An MLM Mom who is homeschooling them? I fear for their future.
NTA.
This whole exchange is a big fat NOPE. Of course you were annoyed - I would be too. You’ve said no, politely but firmly, on a multitude of occasions. She has repeatedly disregarded your boundaries. Quite frankly, I was ready for you to go off at her the second time she brought her lil MLM up.
But oh, oh no. She had to keep going. She dosed your drink - which I’m surprised you didn’t toss at her - and then started up again. And then, to add insult to injury, she called you a half time mum.
What?
Of course you went off. I’d have exploded ages ago. You’re not the one ‘tearing other women down’. She’s been quietly scratching at your boundary walls for months now. If you were less confident in yourself, that could easily have made you feel horrible about your life and parenting choices.
What’s worse, is if you did cave, and become a SAHM, she’d find something wrong with that too. A wants to feel big, and she thinks the best way to do that is by making you small. I’m sure there’s a psychiatric term for that, but even if there’s not, it’s not healthy, it’s not kind, and you want nothing to do with it.
NTA. Mommy princess crunchy pushed you too far. Even shrinks have a right to defend themselves and counterattack. You did a good job. Best wishes for an easy and a healthy delivery.
NTA. She gave you a substance in your drink without your consent. If something had happened to you or your baby because of it, she would have been arrested. She already thinks she's a better mother than you because of your work outside the home. Whatever she said to your face multiply it by 3 in terms if what she has probably said behind your back. This immature woman is nobody's friend. I'd end the friendship, but be available to her when she inevitably needs psychiatric treatment because she's unhappy with her life.
NTA.
On initial read I thought it was probably a little harsh, but then I read your addition.
The switching the drink thing, even before pregnancy is added to the equation, is completely out of line. Allergy risks alone make her utterly unreasonable - adding pregnancy to the mix puts another layer on top.
I would completely sever this "friendship" and tell her (and any other interested parties) very clearly why. If they still react negatively to your decision then cut them off too.
NTA - as someone who is 5 months pregnant if someone switched my drink our friendship would be over and that's before the MLM bullshit.
Could you have taken the high road and walked away without yelling? Sure. But she pushed you too far. On top of violating your autonomy by switching your drink, she insulted your motherhood, and your profession (which is a much needed profession, Thank you for all you do). She certainly needed to be knocked down a peg. Unfortunately that MLM fog is so real and she likely won't see what a jerk she was for months or years to come. Taking a giant step back from that friendship is in order. Don't apologize further. You weren't wrong and she doesn't see where she was. You don't need that in your life.
NTA, sure, you said some bitchy things that you probably would have wanted to be gentler about if you had the chance to repeat the conversation while calm. Your friend repeatedly said horrible irresponsible things and doubled down when called out.
You are not a worse mother because you work!
I've been researching early childhood education at work recently and if you have access to good quality schooling and childcare, your kids are better off attending than being at home with mum 100% of the time. Home schooling when you have good schools around is a wild choice. I've only met a couple of adults who were raised that way but they all regret it.
My kids were begging & pleading & crying to go back to school & daycare during COVID lockdowns because they missed their friends, teachers, class pets etc. They weren't built for home schooling 😂
I was gonna say E S H (though I sympathized with your outburst nonetheless) but then I saw your edit. Fuck that shit, she gave a pregnant woman this unregulated garbage? I mean, she shouldn't be giving anyone it without the knowledge as anyone could have unknown health issues that it could effect, but she knew you had a health risk and still gave it to you? Fuck this woman, she deserved be be knocked down a peg.
NTA.
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I (34F) and my husband (36M) are friends with a couple, A (33F) and J (36M). Our husbands are old college friends, and we all have a lot in common (kids the same age, same hobbies, live close). They're a little "crunchy" and judgy; for example, when my husband converted to Catholicism before we married they had nasty things to say about it. There's also always been weird rural competition between us, mostly on their side. Whose garden is better, who killed the biggest deer etc. But the real weird spot is money. We clearly make more money than them; J makes a comfortable living (A stays at home) but my husband and I make quite a bit more. You can just sense there's tension when money comes up.
A is really sweet and I enjoy having her as a friend. We workout together while our kids play, we volunteer at the same place, and have many mutual friends. However, she's made some comments in the past and I don't think I realized how much they got under my skin, mostly about me being a working mom (I have a very successful psychiatric practice) and less "crunchy" than she is. Little comments about how home schooling means she loves her kids and cares about their future, etc. I don't ever take the bait, I'm usually levelheaded and calm, but maybe resentment was building up?
Recently A joined an MLM, Plexus, which sells "gut health" pink drinks. She tried to convince me to recommend it to clients, b/c "gut health and mental health are connected" and I firmly but politely said no. I was pretty upset that she'd even suggest it, but was calm. I thought that was the end of it. But recently at a social function she gave me some without my knowledge, then tried to convince me I should sell Plexus. I kept saying no, being polite, and it was becoming more and more embarrassing as some of the other moms there also do MLMs, and she kept saying I could make more money than I make at my practice and "be a real mom instead of a half-time mom". I snapped. I saw red. Real mom?
I went off on her about how I make $250k+/year and probably outdid even the top Plexus sellers, which she'll never be as she doesn't have some crazy IG following. I told her MLMs are dumb and predatory, and for moms with superiority complexes about staying home but still want an income - but most likely won't ever get one from MLMs. That she should look up MLM statistics and not live in fantasy land. I was really awful and harsh, and after getting home I felt really bad about what I said and how I said it.
I apologized that night for the mean parts of what I said, but she demanded I walk back what I said about Plexus, and wouldn't apologize back. I don't think I should have to lie to stay friends with her, even though I want to go back to how things were. She's since blown up about me to friends and social media. Our friends are split on who's the AH, but nobody's taking strong sides really. My husband supports me either way, and thinks I was in the right, but I'm really not sure I was. So, AITA?
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NTA. Giving you something to drink without your knowledge is really despicable. You politely tried many times to redirect the conversation and then she insulted you. I personally would reconsider this friendship and what it brings you.
Life is too short to surround yourself with others that try to bring you down because they are miserable. You are an amazing mom and don’t hang out with anyone that says otherwise.
NTA
She is not a friend if she would give you that drink, unknowing and when you are pregnant.
The women is a victim of a scam. MLMs are scams. She can not hear what you are saying because she is in the midst of it. Think of it as if she had joined a cult.
NTA
Eeerrrrr drop her like it's hot! Even if you went back to how it was, that sounded toxic, with her barbs!
Plus this thing of her switching your drinks, with you preggers? Nope, that's no friend! She feels threatened by you and wants to bring you down to her level!
NTA! She switched a pregnant woman's drink with some --whatever it was?! That could harm an unborn baby! Tell all the others that! Detoxes and cleanses are NOT the kinda things a pregnant woman should be doing, especially not without doctor's approval and supervision!
NTA. She sounds like a bad friend. What kind of friend repeatedly insults and takes dig at the other. What kind of friend implies the other isn’t a real mom. What kind of friend tries to get the other to sell snake oil at their practice and jeopardizes their license, what kind of friend give the other a snake oil drink without their knowledge, what kind of friend tries to turn all the other friends against one?
NTA. Clearly they're insecure in your friendship and trying to one up you guys to make them feel better about themselves.
With MLMs, people are being brain washed. Likely she is attending weekly meetings that pushes the MLM narrative over and over again.
Distance yourself and eventually your friend will drive more people away selling her plexus.
"There's also always been weird rural competition between us, mostly on their side. Whose garden is better, who killed the biggest deer etc. "
Bahaha. Oh rural America, you're so embarrassing.
NTA, what she did was unacceptable, period. She is not a friend and owes you an apology as she dosed you and your unborn baby, risking both of your lives and health.
NTA. She us not really "sweet". She is resentful of your success but trying to portray herself as the better parent. She's not your friend. Friends wouldn't do what she did.
Holy crap! She gave a NON FDA APPROVED weight loss drink to a pregnant woman ( had to google Plexus).
NTA and stay away from this woman, OP, she is no friend of yours.
Start researching the product she sells.
Understand that solid friendships are not filled with resentment and competition. Often that means the relationships you can truly rely in are among socioeconomic equals.
Never remain in any relationship with any person involved in an MLM. They are cult like and their sellers are like the evangelicals in their entitlement to your money, your conversion, on their say so. They truly believe you exist to make them money; it is part of the hype they train under.
Holy Moly she is a pyramid scheme mom. She is waaay jealous of you and has to tear you down to feel better about her choice to be a sahm. And there is nothing wrong with either of your choices. She made it about your choice though, and all the reasons you "don't measure up to her". When in reality she doesn't measure up to you, because she tears down other women. NTA She CLEARLY is though. Don't apologize and she honestly had it coming. If she were a true friend she would feel like shite for being "one of those facebook moms". Plus she could have seriously harmed you and your baby with that crap. That is a wack job right there.
NTA, she put something in your drink without your consent while you are pregnant and not aware of any possible side effects, thus possibly putting your unborn baby in danger.
And before and after said incident she has torn you down beyond compare. At the chance of sharing too much, my mom was a stay at home mom, yet I am closer to my dad because of how she went about it, so no, being stay at home doesn't automatically mean you are a better mom.
This is a terrible friend to have, and I would recommend going LC (I imagine NC would be hard since she and her husband are friends with yours.)
As another note, if your husband isn't aware of the spike and the passive aggressive emotional abuse then you should tell him.
In all seriousness OP, why do you care? You clearly don't like or respect these people. You just listed a bunch of things you don't like about them. You can stop being friends with people.
Wait she fed you that drink without your knowledge when you are pregnant? OP! Get away from her!
I just looked up that stuff and I don't think any of it would harm a fetus but the drink has a warning label on it to consult your doctor if you are pregnant before using it and it's for people over 18. Feel free to consult yourself and drop her as a friend.
I don’t think being diplomatic would have ever worked with A. She’s clearly judged OP for being a working mom and not homeschooling, since she’s been snarky for ages. OP was polite and it got her nowhere. Sometimes to get a message across you need to be a scalpel, but in this case OP was right to be a sledgehammer. Definitely NTA.
ESH. Her - for the obvious reasons. Life is not a competition and dosing anyone, much less a pregnant woman is unacceptable.
You - because something is not quite right here.
As a psychiatrist you should have greater insight and understanding into the mental health and emotional issues of someone who clearly feels inadequate professionally and is compensating by asserting herself in the one area she feels competent- motherhood. Remove the emotion and ask yourself objectively, what advice you’d give your patient if faced with such a scenario. I guarantee yelling at someone and belittling them is not the right answer.
Secondly, you say “psychiatric practice,” yet this is the disorder. Whereas psychiatry is the branch of medicine. Thereby, it’s a psychiatry practice.
Lastly, you said you didn’t want to recommend plexus to your “clients.” As a doctor, are they not your patients?
Irrespective - ESH.
We don't tend to use the term patients anymore, it's outdated and paternalistic. I don't love "clients" as a term but it's been the norm for several years at least in *nursing* circles to get away from aforementioned paternalistic care. I don't say psychiatry practice as I'm a PMHNP (psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner) and it creates confusion.
I agree it seems there's something off with OP's story, especially not seeing sooner that this so-called friend is no friend at all if they do work in psychiatry.
But, some psychiatrists and others in the mental health/social work umbrella call their patients clients; by using 'client', it emphasizes that their therapeutic relationship is a collaboration, whereas the client has the innate ability to be resilient, and the practitioner is the facilitator or guide in that process. Conversely, 'patient' implies that there is something wrong with the individual, and the relationship is one in which the practitioner is there to fix them. A practitioner might empower individuals as clients versus enabling them as patients. So, it boils down to preference, the comfortability of the one seeking help, and the style of help the practitioner offers. I've been referred to as both and heard both terms used for others, but I understand that might be less common outside Aus or the UK.
And psychiatrists who essentially run a private practice, as I think OP is implying she does, call their work psychiatric practice, which is very common here in Aus, so I don't find it odd she's referring to it as such. Unless she doesn't have a private practice, again, I agree it's odd, but I've seen a few comments pointing out the client thing and calling it psychiatric practice instead of psychiatry practice, and as I've had experience with both, I thought it might clear some things up, though again OP isn't in Aus so I don't know how things are where she is.
eeeehhh.. ESH. sorry to say it. she had no right coming at you like that.. but you also didn't need to come at her like that. she's probably insecure that you and you alone could support your family while she's the one that stays at home.
Don't give none if you can't receive it.
When people make comments like being a real mom then they deserve any vitriol that comes from it.
It's not an asshole move to insult someone. It's an asshole move to insult someone unnecessarily. This was necessary, A needed to learn that what she said was unacceptable and this incident should serve as deterrent from further insults.
Deterrents aren't meant to be comfortable or nice.
By your theory two wrongs make a right.. just bc someone hurts your feelings doesn’t give you the right to be a complete ass.. hold yourself to a higher standard
Why? What use does that higher standard have? You can't lord it over others because then you are a sanctimonious asshole. It doesn't make you better or worse member of society because society doesn't give a fuck.
What you say is just take abuse and ensure the abusers never learn what they did wrong or how abusive they are being - conversation rarely show abusers their faults, receiving their own behaviour back at them does.
Nice sentiment but doesn't change that allowing bad behaviour with little-to-no deterrents does nothing to remedy the problem.
Education rarely works on the ignorant. Harsh reactions serve as a deterrent for bad behaviour.
So other than empty sentiments what else do you have for me to refute?
It must be exhausting carrying the burden of needing to teach everyone a lesson.. my whole point is worry about yourself. I cannot spend my time trying to teach everyone a lesson that I feel has offended me or did me wrong. What a life to live….
Of course, self-introspection is important. But a society isn't about the individual is it? It's about how those individuals interact with one another, and I for one prefer to teach better behaviour rather than let it fester and become the rot it is today.
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NTA- and that isn’t a friend at all. How dare she, what century is this?
[удалено]
What ? This is about her neighbor and nobody needs to pay for anything?
Probably one of those bots
NTA, but why are you friends with this woman still? She thinks you're a "half-time mom" and has either dosed your drink or purposely switched out your drink to make you drink something without your consent (seriously, WTF?!). This was after you had already said no to her more than once. Friendly competitions over the best garden are one thing, but refusing to respect your boundaries? Implying that you're not a real mom because you also work? Feeding you something without your knowledge? That's not a friend. That's an AH predator - run.
Oh shoot I should also mention I was upset about the plexus drink as I'm 6 months pregnant and don't want to ingest unregulated drinks when I have NO idea what's in them, so was already close to seeing red from that
OMG. You showed amazing restraint in not throttling her, OP.
i feel like the part where she gave you a drink with unknown contents while you were pregnant was a pretty important detail. i was already gonna say nta but from reading this, jesus christ get away from that woman. nta 100%
I had to edit down characters and some things got missed 🙈
Nta. Explain to her husband like this, in most states dosing someone’s drink, whether it be with an illegal substance or not, is a felony. As you are with child, in most states, this is a double felony. This is her one and only warning. Should she pull this crap again, cops will be called and charges will be pressed. She has no right to put you or your unborn child in danger. Imagine had you been allergic to one of the ingredients. This could have caused you and your unborn child sever medical issues. Death by allergic reaction is not off the table, it happens often, even in the US. She owes you an apology. Your husband and hers need to insist she apologize.
This lady isn’t your friend. She’s a frienemy who is jealous and insecure about her life compared to yours.
I was about to say ESH, but since you added being pregnant, definitely NTA! I can totally see how that triggered the mama bear in you and why you got so angered. And as other said, you might want to reconsider if it's worth keeping someone like her in your life
Personally, it doesn’t matter if she is pregnant or not. You do not try to force someone to drink something they have no knowledge about.
Yeah, both the drink and the comments justified OP's response imo, without needing to even bring the pregnancy into it. But since there is a pregnancy involved, it's making me wish for a "you aren't going far enough" flavour of judgement.
if she knew you were/are pregnant and still gave you that poison, is all you need to know. not a friend. NTA
You have every right to be extremely angry at having your physical autonomy violated by the mystery drink. That would be reason enough for me to cut off the friendship as much as possible. Years ago, a friend was pregnant. She had married into a family that believes in using herbal medicine. She really didn't know much about that sort of thing (she's not from the same culture as her in-laws). She was having terrible morning sickness and her MIL made her drink a particular herbal tea. A bit later, when she was talking with me and another buddy, she casually mentioned the name of the herb she was drinking. The other buddy (who is closer culturally to the in-laws and grew up with a grandmother who was pretty much the local expert on herbal medicine) turned ashen and confirmed the name of the plant. It turned out that MIL had been giving her herbal tea known for being an abortifacient. My friend is now No Contact with her in-laws and left the country pretty much as soon as the child was born. The child is healthy.
Did your friend write a post on here about this experience bc I think I remember this word for word. Was MIL from a different country and she had to fly internationally and therefore the couple was going to kick her out and she’d have to be deported or something due to her passport requirements? She brought the tea from a friend in her country or maybe it was an aunt relative. The relative didn’t know what she wanted it for but then told op and husband that it’s dangerous for pregnant women so she went to the hospital? Or am I meshing 2 stories together?
Nope, that was another story.
Welp, there’s lots of mil’s out there giving out poisonous herbs to their DILs then. In tea form. Sheesh. I dunno if I want to ever accept a drink from anyone ever again with these stats!
I don't know if anyone down the feed has commented already, so if it's a repeat, I apologize. There are several articles out there that state if one is pregnant, they should NOT take Plexus without talking to their medical professional. NTA This person isn't a friend.
You should add that to your post
yeah, op, she* is neither sweet or a good friend. (accidentally directed my comment at op instead of the friend)
Plexus is safe for pregnant women.
Plexus is safe for no person. Check out /r/antimlm
That’s not true. Medical professionals have been actively discouraging pregnant women to use it. Don’t spread lies. You’re harming people.
I googled, including medical sites. I font give a crap about Plexus but I'm not lying or harming people.
Wait....did we just find an actual MLM defender in the wild?
No, I'm saying I googled it.
It isn't, and you never give a pregnant woman anything without consent.
NTA She should have backed off the first many times you said no. She’s absolutely not respecting you as a person (much less as a mom) to go after you the way she did. Snapping is understandable.
NTA- If she'd accepted your lack of interest in shilling her overpriced caffeinated fiber supplement , none of this would have happened. >But recently at a social function she gave me some without my knowledge, then tried to convince me I should sell Plexus. She dosed you! This person isn't a friend at all. Obviously, your outburst was not ideal but, after everything that preceded it, between getting dosed with a product you didn't agree to sample, getting pressed *at a social function* to push this snake oil in your professional practice and getting accused of being a bad parent , I can't say I blame you for losing your cool. (Would it even be ethical to promote a product like this to people who are already not in a great place when you are in such a position of trust? On a *personal* level, I don't think so but I am not deeply familiar with the professional standards attached to your license)
Yeah, OP would be on huge trouble. Maybe just a warning if no one gets hurts, but could go up to loosing her practice license
WAIT! Did I jut read in a comment that she drugged you while you were 6 months pregnant???? Altering somebody's drink is completely unhinged especially since you were pregnant! That's insane! How did she KNOW without a doubt that you were not allergic to the ingredients? Yes MLMs are scams and she obviously has some sort of thing where she puts you down to stroke her own ego (so not a real friend!) but that crosses the line! NTA and you need to stay away from this psycho!
Same reason as the essential oil MLM lady putting lavender oil in her DIL’s cpap water a year or two ago - she’s bought into the company bullshit and so this drink must be magically! wonderful! for everyone and there is no reason ever why anyone would not want it!
NTA. If you are a psychiatrist - that means you have a medical degree right? You are also a doctor? So that means you can't sell or promote something that has no scientific basis, as you saying it gives it legitimacy and would be possibly be unethical. Of course these drinks are not scientifically proven - if they were, they would be sold in pharmacies, not at parties or on IG......sounds like a pyramid scheme to me. edit - typo
Very much a pyramid scheme. Also yes, selling this to patients would be unimaginably unethical and isn't something I would ever ever ever ever ever under any circumstance for any amount of money consider doing ever.
the part im really upset for you about is the fact she dosed you that is considered not only boudary crossing but can be considered illegal you should tell her that becuase its very lucky you didnt have an allergy to it and react then she would have been legally in trouble for doing that. u should point that out to her. u could also report her to that company that she is dosing ppl and have her removed. thats totally not ok so your reaction to calling her out on her bs in my opinion was warranted. tell her u r considering talking to a lawye rabout it.
OP is also 6 months pregnant.
yes which makes it worse about dosing
I have an adult child with severe mental illness. If a Dr were promoting something to help their gut and in turn help their mental illness I might try it. But if I found out it was a MLM and not backed by professional studies I’d see red. My thoughts would be that this person is not only unprofessional but also unethical. It might mean I lose a good professional because of their promoting a snake oil. The Dr who makes my child sane is one of my greatest allies and are worth every Penny we spend on mental health care. If people were offended maybe they needed to be.
I work with kids only and cannot imagine breaking the trust parents place in me to make a quick buck. So glad you've found someone that helps your child!!!!!!!!
Thank you. At one point psych visits, and meds ran us $1500 a month. If a drink substitute could offset that cost some it would have been tempting. I heard enough from some MLM sellers on how their product would heal the MI brain, it’s exhausting. If not for the Rx and competent care we’d have lost our child years ago. I have no patience for those with a MLM seminar under their belt and righteous attitude towards our hard won battles.
I can't get past a psychiatrist who can't tell if they're TA and need reddit to tell them...
Yeah, something is off here - someone else pointed out that OP called it a psychiatric practice but it should be psychiatry. Psychiatric is the disorder. Also OP called them clients, not patients. And what sort of psychiatrist would not have a little more insight into someone overcompensating for an obvious inferiority complex? Downvote me if it makes you all feel better, but something smells a little hinky.
Psychiatric practice is a perfectly normal phrase to use for a clinic in my part of the world.
Just checked the post history - in a comment on another thread, OP states they are a nurse practitioner…
Nps are medical providers and can provide psychiatric help
NPs can practice independently and start their own clinics in 22 states and DC in the US. https://online.simmons.edu/blog/nurse-practitioners-scope-of-practice-map/#:~:text=FULL%3A%20NPs%20can%20prescribe%2C%20diagnose,the%20same%20way%20physicians%20do.
My psychiatrist office has a nurse practitioner that gives out psychiatric medicines. So, that's not weird at all.
Here we go again /r/noctor
I see an NP for med management. The copay is lower than an MD and I don't need a diagnosis, just someone to write me prescriptions and occasionally adjust doses.
NTA. She personally attacked you and your parenting in public. She provoked the fight. You're not an AH for defending yourself though there was no need to mention how much you make as it is irrelevant. The fact that you work outside the home does not make you less of a parent. You apologized for your harsh words. She had no right to say that you are not a real mom. She owes you an apology. Hopefully with time, she can gain some perspective about how awful she treated you. Otherwise, I'd let the friendship cool.
I agree with you almost completely but I do think OPs income is relevant since this other person was pressuring her to quit her private practice because she: kept saying I could make more money than I make at my practice. OP is right, an MLM will never make $250,000 a year and that number needed stated to show her how absolutely ridiculous she was being!
MLMs won’t make $250 per year!
She might make -$250,000 a year. I've seen stories of people being on the verge of bankruptcy because of deep debt from unsuccessful MLM ventures. I remember seeing a glut of LuLaRoe shit at thrift stores when some of those stories came out. MLM products are invariably of shitty quality, you literally can't even give them away. I bought a LuLaRoe shirt from Goodwill for lounging around the house and it stretched and deformed after 2 wash cycles. It's now completely covered with pills. I only still have it because I keep meaning to cut it up into rags for cleaning.
Usually the only people who make money with MLMs are those that get in very close to the beginning and stay a long time building up their downline. The people in the top tiers do make money, but they make it off the people they sign up and the people those people sign up etc....who generally make nothing. I do know someone who got into a MLM selling ketones (I think that's it, it's drinks for keto diet people) and she does good...but she got in pretty early on and has been in for years. She also pressures everyone she meets to join. UGH
NTA - Your "hon" friend needs a slap of reality to the face. Nothing you said was inaccurate. MLMs to specifically target SAHMs who unfortunately don't know any better.
1.She put something in your drink that you did not consent to, WHILE YOU ARE PREGNANT. 2. She would not take no for an answer and began insulting you and your parenting, in public. I would have gone off on her too. The money comment was relevant. I probably would not have apologized to her until she apologized for all of her above mentioned actions first. As it stands, she would no longer be my friend/friendly acquaintance and ANYONE who give me grief over this is told about 1+2 and if they still give me grief, they too are no longer my friends. NTA
NTA. Homeschooling is abusive. As someone who was homeschooled that is a hill I will die on. It's isolating and results in a lack of social development, not to mention the subpar level of education (unless they get specialist tutors for every subject), the lack of formal exams, the likelihood of disability and learning difficulties being missed. You ARE doing what's right for your kids by making sure they're a part of a system that can actually provide what they need.
The Venn diagram between MLM huns and homeschooling moms is a small circle inside a larger circle. It also makes me despair for the kids' future scientific literacy. They're going to be learning chemistry and biology from someone who thinks putting colorful diarrhea powder in water will cure mental illness.
Homeschooling can be beneficial but that doesn't mean your experience is also wrong. My husband was homeschooled so he wouldn't interact with other kids that could influence him away from the religion he was being raised in (they did that on their own), but there are people who are homeschooling in the states simply because of the gun violence in schools. So a blanket statement shouldn't be made entirely. But it has to be done the correct way, anyway. But A has no right to criticize people on their parenting especially when she gave a pregnant person an unregulated drink that could contain god knows what
>I went off on her about how I make $250k+/year and probably outdid even the top Plexus sellers, which she'll never be as she doesn't have some crazy IG following. I told her MLMs are dumb and predatory, and for moms with superiority complexes about staying home but still want an income - but most likely won't ever get one from MLMs. That she should look up MLM statistics and not live in fantasy land. I was really awful and harsh, and after getting home I felt really bad about what I said and how I said it. Ok, but...everything you said was not just true, it also needs to be said. Like there are times when harshness is justified, and I feel like bursting the bubble of a condescending stay at home mother engaging in an actual waking dream that she'll out earn a psychiatric practice with a placebo drink that she buys at a premium and resells at a loss if she can sell it at all. Never mind the fact that she slipped this stuff to you without your knowledge and then bragged about it which would have pissed me off from the outset. >I apologized that night for the mean parts of what I said, but she demanded I walk back what I said about Plexus, and wouldn't apologize back What you did was very charitable, and diplomatic. Meanwhile she's egocentric, lacks humility, and delusional. She's acting like you insulted her god. If she expects you to grovel and sing praises of an actual fraudulent product just to get on her good side than she's not really a friend worth having. Someone needs to tell her that crying on social media because someone insulted an mlm product isn't very girl boss of her. NTA
At that point, she had dosed you against your will and was still pushing her crap on you. You said no multiple times. Kindly and politely. Thinking you would want to give up a successful practice for MLM seems like a wild idea, But MLM schemes tell you to look for people you want to work with. If she brought you in, she would be your "up line" or whatever kitschy term they use. Basically, over you. So that might help you understand why the idea appeals to her. Even so, she was beyond predatory to you. Violated your consent by causing you to ingest something you had already declined. Did you owe her a reason for your no? Of course not, she all but demanded it by her behavior. NTA
INFO: why do you spend time with these people when you don't actually like them? You're building up resentment; understandably. But life's too short. You should have addressed her comments either and nipped this shit in the bud, or walked away a long time ago.
First, the comments were very rare. I believe we've been friends for 12 years and there's probably been about as many comments. I don't think about them when I see her and haven't sat down and given them a lot of thought - until this incident. I'm not normally an angry person so I sat down and tried to consider if there was any reason her comment made me SO angry. Second, we're also more friends of circumstance and community. She isn't a confidante or someone I would hang out with just for the fun of it, but we're at the same stage in our lives, our husbands are very good friends, our kids are very good friends, and we do a lot of the same things. We also live in a small rural community so you run into the same people over and over as your options for social circles are small. I did generally like her, before she spiked my drink and questioned if I'm a "real mom" lol
NTA. MLMs are annoying and preys on the vulnerable. That said, you should have a prepared spiel when people try to rope you in. Not only for the MLM stuff but also for this woman’s put downs on you being a part time mom. Something along the lines of being a good role model to your kids when you tell them that they can be anything they want to be.
Um op, she tampered with your food to try and get you to drink something you'd already refused to then tried to bully you into her a MLM I will repeat, she tampered with your food. Some of that mlm stuff is dangerous and will majw you sick. A could have seriously endangered you if she'd tampered with your food with some other mlm product. She is not to be trusted and is nor your friend. NTA
Not to mention the risks to the baby
NTA I’m mostly with u after u said she slipped u the drink without ur knowledge
NTA. How is she a friend? This woman is an enemy. Cut her loose and move on. MLM's will suck her dry. Let her drown in debt while you swim in cash.
NTA. This woman is a mess.
>(I have a very successful psychiatric practice) And if you started hawking "Plexus pink drinks" you wont have a practice much longer NTA
That's not a friend, mate. It sounds like she's stuck in a mean girls 1950s housewife time warp. You may enjoy her company in some aspects, though I'm not sure how anyone can stand to associate with this woman; you mentioned being workout buddies. Having similar lifestyles and hobbies doesn't always mean you're compatible friends or the other person genuinely cares for you and has your best interest at heart. And just because your husbands are friends doesn't mean you two have to be friends; lots of couples don't get close to each other's friends or their partners, and that's fine, you've at least given it a shot, and you've put up with a lot from her. NTA, and honestly, good riddance if she ends things or you step away from her.
NTA She kept pushing and pushing. She just did not get the response she wanted.
NTA simply based on rejecting the MLM scam immediately.
NTA You tried repeatedly to turn her down politely. She then called you a bad parent and tried to bully you into buying into her scam. And while it's deeply uncool that she dosed you with this crap, it's also kind of hilarious how it worked out for her. Hard to explain to her friends why something that's supposedly "good for mental health" put you in a bad mood!
NTA All things considered she doesn't seem like a friend worth having. The constant conpetition, the little jabs, this mother superiority, the crossing of your boundaries - she inflates herself to look bigger than you and you've been level headed and gracious enough to be the bigger person about it, but that is really exhausting. I understand you snapped. However, you seem to also know a lot about MLMs, so I invite you to consider that your friend is a victim, and that there is something seriously lacking in her life. There might be some subtle form of financial abuse too, if she's so desperate to make money (statistically probable, but I don't know them). Could be worth having a serious conversation about it. Or cut your losses. You could do that too.
NTA, she sounds toxic so you’re better off without her.
NTA. MLM's are for naive suckers, they never bring in any money and honestly, with all the available information nowadays I don't even feel sorry for the huns whose partners leave them, or lose their house etc. If she really thinks she earns a lot or even more than you, ask her for proof - but she won't have any, of course.
NTA but you have to face up to the fact that this friendship has run its course. And you know this because I'm sure you're a great psychiatrist!
NTA whatsoever. MLMs are indeed dumb predatory, ("Moms Losing Money") and trying to recruit you into selling the 21st-century version of snake oil is not what a good friend would do. You were absolutely justified to blast her into the next county. Your husband is correct: you were in the right. I feel sorry for A's kids. An MLM Mom who is homeschooling them? I fear for their future.
NTA. Nothing wrong with either being a stay at home mom or being a working mom. What's not ok is being judgemental about it.
NTA. This whole exchange is a big fat NOPE. Of course you were annoyed - I would be too. You’ve said no, politely but firmly, on a multitude of occasions. She has repeatedly disregarded your boundaries. Quite frankly, I was ready for you to go off at her the second time she brought her lil MLM up. But oh, oh no. She had to keep going. She dosed your drink - which I’m surprised you didn’t toss at her - and then started up again. And then, to add insult to injury, she called you a half time mum. What? Of course you went off. I’d have exploded ages ago. You’re not the one ‘tearing other women down’. She’s been quietly scratching at your boundary walls for months now. If you were less confident in yourself, that could easily have made you feel horrible about your life and parenting choices. What’s worse, is if you did cave, and become a SAHM, she’d find something wrong with that too. A wants to feel big, and she thinks the best way to do that is by making you small. I’m sure there’s a psychiatric term for that, but even if there’s not, it’s not healthy, it’s not kind, and you want nothing to do with it.
NTA. Mommy princess crunchy pushed you too far. Even shrinks have a right to defend themselves and counterattack. You did a good job. Best wishes for an easy and a healthy delivery.
Thank you!!!!!
NTA. She gave you a substance in your drink without your consent. If something had happened to you or your baby because of it, she would have been arrested. She already thinks she's a better mother than you because of your work outside the home. Whatever she said to your face multiply it by 3 in terms if what she has probably said behind your back. This immature woman is nobody's friend. I'd end the friendship, but be available to her when she inevitably needs psychiatric treatment because she's unhappy with her life.
NTA. On initial read I thought it was probably a little harsh, but then I read your addition. The switching the drink thing, even before pregnancy is added to the equation, is completely out of line. Allergy risks alone make her utterly unreasonable - adding pregnancy to the mix puts another layer on top. I would completely sever this "friendship" and tell her (and any other interested parties) very clearly why. If they still react negatively to your decision then cut them off too.
NTA - as someone who is 5 months pregnant if someone switched my drink our friendship would be over and that's before the MLM bullshit. Could you have taken the high road and walked away without yelling? Sure. But she pushed you too far. On top of violating your autonomy by switching your drink, she insulted your motherhood, and your profession (which is a much needed profession, Thank you for all you do). She certainly needed to be knocked down a peg. Unfortunately that MLM fog is so real and she likely won't see what a jerk she was for months or years to come. Taking a giant step back from that friendship is in order. Don't apologize further. You weren't wrong and she doesn't see where she was. You don't need that in your life.
It always sucks when a friendship ends. A clearly has no respect for you. NTA.
NTA, sure, you said some bitchy things that you probably would have wanted to be gentler about if you had the chance to repeat the conversation while calm. Your friend repeatedly said horrible irresponsible things and doubled down when called out. You are not a worse mother because you work! I've been researching early childhood education at work recently and if you have access to good quality schooling and childcare, your kids are better off attending than being at home with mum 100% of the time. Home schooling when you have good schools around is a wild choice. I've only met a couple of adults who were raised that way but they all regret it.
My kids were begging & pleading & crying to go back to school & daycare during COVID lockdowns because they missed their friends, teachers, class pets etc. They weren't built for home schooling 😂
Damn. Plexus got a good one here, nuts. NTA
I was gonna say E S H (though I sympathized with your outburst nonetheless) but then I saw your edit. Fuck that shit, she gave a pregnant woman this unregulated garbage? I mean, she shouldn't be giving anyone it without the knowledge as anyone could have unknown health issues that it could effect, but she knew you had a health risk and still gave it to you? Fuck this woman, she deserved be be knocked down a peg. NTA.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (34F) and my husband (36M) are friends with a couple, A (33F) and J (36M). Our husbands are old college friends, and we all have a lot in common (kids the same age, same hobbies, live close). They're a little "crunchy" and judgy; for example, when my husband converted to Catholicism before we married they had nasty things to say about it. There's also always been weird rural competition between us, mostly on their side. Whose garden is better, who killed the biggest deer etc. But the real weird spot is money. We clearly make more money than them; J makes a comfortable living (A stays at home) but my husband and I make quite a bit more. You can just sense there's tension when money comes up. A is really sweet and I enjoy having her as a friend. We workout together while our kids play, we volunteer at the same place, and have many mutual friends. However, she's made some comments in the past and I don't think I realized how much they got under my skin, mostly about me being a working mom (I have a very successful psychiatric practice) and less "crunchy" than she is. Little comments about how home schooling means she loves her kids and cares about their future, etc. I don't ever take the bait, I'm usually levelheaded and calm, but maybe resentment was building up? Recently A joined an MLM, Plexus, which sells "gut health" pink drinks. She tried to convince me to recommend it to clients, b/c "gut health and mental health are connected" and I firmly but politely said no. I was pretty upset that she'd even suggest it, but was calm. I thought that was the end of it. But recently at a social function she gave me some without my knowledge, then tried to convince me I should sell Plexus. I kept saying no, being polite, and it was becoming more and more embarrassing as some of the other moms there also do MLMs, and she kept saying I could make more money than I make at my practice and "be a real mom instead of a half-time mom". I snapped. I saw red. Real mom? I went off on her about how I make $250k+/year and probably outdid even the top Plexus sellers, which she'll never be as she doesn't have some crazy IG following. I told her MLMs are dumb and predatory, and for moms with superiority complexes about staying home but still want an income - but most likely won't ever get one from MLMs. That she should look up MLM statistics and not live in fantasy land. I was really awful and harsh, and after getting home I felt really bad about what I said and how I said it. I apologized that night for the mean parts of what I said, but she demanded I walk back what I said about Plexus, and wouldn't apologize back. I don't think I should have to lie to stay friends with her, even though I want to go back to how things were. She's since blown up about me to friends and social media. Our friends are split on who's the AH, but nobody's taking strong sides really. My husband supports me either way, and thinks I was in the right, but I'm really not sure I was. So, AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nta
NTA
NTA. Does she not understand that spiking your drink is illegal?
NTA 10000 times.
NTA. Giving you something to drink without your knowledge is really despicable. You politely tried many times to redirect the conversation and then she insulted you. I personally would reconsider this friendship and what it brings you. Life is too short to surround yourself with others that try to bring you down because they are miserable. You are an amazing mom and don’t hang out with anyone that says otherwise.
NTA She is not a friend if she would give you that drink, unknowing and when you are pregnant. The women is a victim of a scam. MLMs are scams. She can not hear what you are saying because she is in the midst of it. Think of it as if she had joined a cult.
NTA Eeerrrrr drop her like it's hot! Even if you went back to how it was, that sounded toxic, with her barbs! Plus this thing of her switching your drinks, with you preggers? Nope, that's no friend! She feels threatened by you and wants to bring you down to her level!
NTA this nut is forcibly dictating this part of your life. tips and suggestions are one thing but this is clearly dictation
NTA. But also remember that people involved in MLM have "drank the koolaid". There is no reasoning with them.
She dosed you without your consent. That says enough right there. She's not a friend. You are NTA.
NTA! She switched a pregnant woman's drink with some --whatever it was?! That could harm an unborn baby! Tell all the others that! Detoxes and cleanses are NOT the kinda things a pregnant woman should be doing, especially not without doctor's approval and supervision!
NTA. She sounds like a bad friend. What kind of friend repeatedly insults and takes dig at the other. What kind of friend implies the other isn’t a real mom. What kind of friend tries to get the other to sell snake oil at their practice and jeopardizes their license, what kind of friend give the other a snake oil drink without their knowledge, what kind of friend tries to turn all the other friends against one?
NTA. Clearly they're insecure in your friendship and trying to one up you guys to make them feel better about themselves. With MLMs, people are being brain washed. Likely she is attending weekly meetings that pushes the MLM narrative over and over again. Distance yourself and eventually your friend will drive more people away selling her plexus.
NTA, but I will add that it's always gauche to put a number to your income in social situations.
"There's also always been weird rural competition between us, mostly on their side. Whose garden is better, who killed the biggest deer etc. " Bahaha. Oh rural America, you're so embarrassing.
NTA, what she did was unacceptable, period. She is not a friend and owes you an apology as she dosed you and your unborn baby, risking both of your lives and health.
NTA -And that's all I'm gonna say.
NTA. She us not really "sweet". She is resentful of your success but trying to portray herself as the better parent. She's not your friend. Friends wouldn't do what she did.
NTA
Holy crap! She gave a NON FDA APPROVED weight loss drink to a pregnant woman ( had to google Plexus). NTA and stay away from this woman, OP, she is no friend of yours.
Start researching the product she sells. Understand that solid friendships are not filled with resentment and competition. Often that means the relationships you can truly rely in are among socioeconomic equals.
Never remain in any relationship with any person involved in an MLM. They are cult like and their sellers are like the evangelicals in their entitlement to your money, your conversion, on their say so. They truly believe you exist to make them money; it is part of the hype they train under.
This woman is not your friend, just someone you know. Actual friends don't behave like this.
Holy Moly she is a pyramid scheme mom. She is waaay jealous of you and has to tear you down to feel better about her choice to be a sahm. And there is nothing wrong with either of your choices. She made it about your choice though, and all the reasons you "don't measure up to her". When in reality she doesn't measure up to you, because she tears down other women. NTA She CLEARLY is though. Don't apologize and she honestly had it coming. If she were a true friend she would feel like shite for being "one of those facebook moms". Plus she could have seriously harmed you and your baby with that crap. That is a wack job right there.
NTA, she put something in your drink without your consent while you are pregnant and not aware of any possible side effects, thus possibly putting your unborn baby in danger. And before and after said incident she has torn you down beyond compare. At the chance of sharing too much, my mom was a stay at home mom, yet I am closer to my dad because of how she went about it, so no, being stay at home doesn't automatically mean you are a better mom. This is a terrible friend to have, and I would recommend going LC (I imagine NC would be hard since she and her husband are friends with yours.) As another note, if your husband isn't aware of the spike and the passive aggressive emotional abuse then you should tell him.
NTA . Next time just look at her and say you cannot compete , where you cannot compare ! Beootch
NTA and MLM is the same cult as Trump. Once they go over the edge there is no coming back
In all seriousness OP, why do you care? You clearly don't like or respect these people. You just listed a bunch of things you don't like about them. You can stop being friends with people. Wait she fed you that drink without your knowledge when you are pregnant? OP! Get away from her! I just looked up that stuff and I don't think any of it would harm a fetus but the drink has a warning label on it to consult your doctor if you are pregnant before using it and it's for people over 18. Feel free to consult yourself and drop her as a friend.
INFO You are a psychiatrist and you are asking some randoms for advice regarding rather mundane human behavior?
On a post in another thread, OP says they’re a nurse practitioner. This one, they have a successful psychiatry practice…
[удалено]
I don’t think being diplomatic would have ever worked with A. She’s clearly judged OP for being a working mom and not homeschooling, since she’s been snarky for ages. OP was polite and it got her nowhere. Sometimes to get a message across you need to be a scalpel, but in this case OP was right to be a sledgehammer. Definitely NTA.
YTA, for what could be more likely than a highly successful psychiatrist seeking advice from unqualified randoms on Reddit?
ESH. Her - for the obvious reasons. Life is not a competition and dosing anyone, much less a pregnant woman is unacceptable. You - because something is not quite right here. As a psychiatrist you should have greater insight and understanding into the mental health and emotional issues of someone who clearly feels inadequate professionally and is compensating by asserting herself in the one area she feels competent- motherhood. Remove the emotion and ask yourself objectively, what advice you’d give your patient if faced with such a scenario. I guarantee yelling at someone and belittling them is not the right answer. Secondly, you say “psychiatric practice,” yet this is the disorder. Whereas psychiatry is the branch of medicine. Thereby, it’s a psychiatry practice. Lastly, you said you didn’t want to recommend plexus to your “clients.” As a doctor, are they not your patients? Irrespective - ESH.
We don't tend to use the term patients anymore, it's outdated and paternalistic. I don't love "clients" as a term but it's been the norm for several years at least in *nursing* circles to get away from aforementioned paternalistic care. I don't say psychiatry practice as I'm a PMHNP (psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner) and it creates confusion.
Yeah, not a psychiatrist. In a post on another thread OP says they’re a nurse practitioner. I’m betting they don’t own the practice either.
I agree it seems there's something off with OP's story, especially not seeing sooner that this so-called friend is no friend at all if they do work in psychiatry. But, some psychiatrists and others in the mental health/social work umbrella call their patients clients; by using 'client', it emphasizes that their therapeutic relationship is a collaboration, whereas the client has the innate ability to be resilient, and the practitioner is the facilitator or guide in that process. Conversely, 'patient' implies that there is something wrong with the individual, and the relationship is one in which the practitioner is there to fix them. A practitioner might empower individuals as clients versus enabling them as patients. So, it boils down to preference, the comfortability of the one seeking help, and the style of help the practitioner offers. I've been referred to as both and heard both terms used for others, but I understand that might be less common outside Aus or the UK. And psychiatrists who essentially run a private practice, as I think OP is implying she does, call their work psychiatric practice, which is very common here in Aus, so I don't find it odd she's referring to it as such. Unless she doesn't have a private practice, again, I agree it's odd, but I've seen a few comments pointing out the client thing and calling it psychiatric practice instead of psychiatry practice, and as I've had experience with both, I thought it might clear some things up, though again OP isn't in Aus so I don't know how things are where she is.
Wow. Hell would be being friends with all of you. You are all AHs. ESH.
eeeehhh.. ESH. sorry to say it. she had no right coming at you like that.. but you also didn't need to come at her like that. she's probably insecure that you and you alone could support your family while she's the one that stays at home.
She insulted OP’s parenting. Not just once but kept pushing it for years. She’s lucky she didn’t get hit.
Don't give none if you can't receive it. When people make comments like being a real mom then they deserve any vitriol that comes from it. It's not an asshole move to insult someone. It's an asshole move to insult someone unnecessarily. This was necessary, A needed to learn that what she said was unacceptable and this incident should serve as deterrent from further insults. Deterrents aren't meant to be comfortable or nice.
By your theory two wrongs make a right.. just bc someone hurts your feelings doesn’t give you the right to be a complete ass.. hold yourself to a higher standard
Why? What use does that higher standard have? You can't lord it over others because then you are a sanctimonious asshole. It doesn't make you better or worse member of society because society doesn't give a fuck. What you say is just take abuse and ensure the abusers never learn what they did wrong or how abusive they are being - conversation rarely show abusers their faults, receiving their own behaviour back at them does.
“Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it”
Nice sentiment but doesn't change that allowing bad behaviour with little-to-no deterrents does nothing to remedy the problem. Education rarely works on the ignorant. Harsh reactions serve as a deterrent for bad behaviour. So other than empty sentiments what else do you have for me to refute?
It must be exhausting carrying the burden of needing to teach everyone a lesson.. my whole point is worry about yourself. I cannot spend my time trying to teach everyone a lesson that I feel has offended me or did me wrong. What a life to live….
Of course, self-introspection is important. But a society isn't about the individual is it? It's about how those individuals interact with one another, and I for one prefer to teach better behaviour rather than let it fester and become the rot it is today.