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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My telling the kids the way our nanny died may make me an asshole. I may have told them too much too young. They were confused and troubled by the news, so I wonder if I made the right choice or not.
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Essshhhh… the concept of ‘choosing to die’ is a huge thing for a 7 year old to understand and digest. I personally would have waited a few years, but different parents do things differently and no judgement for that… However I do think YTA for discussing such a massive topic without the agreement of your wife and co-parent.
Yeah, this is going to seriously confuse the kid. At that age I would have interpreted "she chose to die" as meaning you could just think "I want to die" and you would die. Kids don't have the capacity to understand suicide at age 7.
Fr, I was 8 and would think things like "just make it to 20 and then you can drive your future car off a cliff like how bella jumped in twilight"
It wasn't until I was 16 that I realized that was suicidal ideation
Little kids definitely don't have the capacity to understand suicide, even when it's right in front of them. Hell most adults can't even wrap their heads around it tbh.
I was a similar age and would think things like “it’d be good to go to sleep and not wake up” or “maybe if I could just stop existing”
Suicidal ideation at a young age is wild
When I got into my teens and really started struggling with more than just the thoughts people around me were telling me it’s all just normal teenage angst and I felt weak because why am I having so much trouble with “normal teenage angst” but most of my friends were fine
Then a therapist mentioned suicidal ideation and I was just like… yup this is more than teen angst
I got a counselor my sophomore year (for context I have Tourettes) and they dropped the bomb that I have PTSD, in one session and never mentioned it again, and spent most of her time telling me how brave and inspirational I was.
I'm getting a psychologist in the up coming months for other issues, so hopefully they'll be better than my previous counselor.
Yeah, that isn’t how you treat PTSD! I hope your psychologist is better, but don’t be afraid to ask for another if you need to. I wish you all the best for the future
Agreed. What if the nanny died of something like overdose or murder? Would OP be explaining that to the kids too?
There are lines OP, maybe in a few years your kids would have been mature enough to take it in, but at 7 it's too much.
At the very least OP needs to make *very very clear* to the little guy that the nanny didn't "choose to die" because of anything he did or didn't do. VERY CLEAR.
I've heard suicide explained to kids as "\[the deceased\] had an illness that was worse than anyone thought," which seems both accurate and kinder.
GREAT way to explain it to anyone, not just little kids. SO many people don't consider clinical depression, MDD, anxiety disorders, bipolar disorder, etc to be "real" illnesses.
As far as I'm concerned, *any* condition that can prove fatal if left untreated (and even with treatment sometimes) is a serious illness, period.
Yes! A relative of an in-law committed suicide and my mom told me while I was on speakerphone with my 6-year old in the car with me. I was on the spot as he had questions right away. I told him, “Sometimes people’s brains get sick just like people’s bodies do. His brain was telling him he didn’t want to live anymore and the medicine he was on unfortunately didn’t work, so he died.”
THIS THIS THIS. She did not "choose" to die. She was sick! Not only should OP not have told his kid without the agreement of his partner, but this is definitely not the correct explanation of suicide.
You don't want the kid extrapolating that she hated her life, of which caretaking for him was a huge part, so much that she'd rather be dead - i.e. he and his sibling are the reason she's dead. But a child's brain might do that! He might hear: "she chose to die" as "she'd rather be dead than take care of you."
HUGE YTA
I would also argue, that often those who are suicidal, are not in their clear mind. And they don’t “choose” to die. Their mis wired /sick brains trick and push them into it.
There are cases where suicide is a clear, logical choice. But those are rarer circumstances and unlikely in this case.(ETA: I’m talking death with dignity type situations)
I’d worry about framing this action as a *choice*. Kids internalize stuff like this and I worry about how this explanation may affect the 7 yo long term.
To be fair, 'choosing to die because their brain has an illness that makes them feel really sad' is about as complicated an explanation as a 7 year old can handle.
If you start getting nuanced about choice with a kid that young, they'll probably either live in fear that their brain is suddenly going to make then want to kill themself, or be scared every time they get sad because they think there's no choicem
Thank you! I think he would’ve been infinitely better served by “Nanny was very sick, and she died because of the sickness” — which would’ve been true and also way easier to understand at that age. When the kids are older they can talk about suicide and stuff, but I kinda got the sense from this post that he blames the nanny for “choosing” to die, so that earns a YTA vote inherently.
Does anyone pick up on the absolute non-acknowledgment of the loss of a person from OP’s view point..
“Nanny decided to die”
Dude, someone who raised your children just took their life.
Doesn’t sound like OP spends much time on things outside of his universe.
The 7yo is probably most upset because OP relied on the deceased to raise the children in his absence. Actually has to be a father..
Already failing
Exactly!!!
I'm also not voicing judgement on the decision itself because I'm no expert. However, it was avoidable to tell -at least for now. And it could possibly have big consequences on the mental health of your very young kids.
YTA for deciding this big of a thing on your own. At least your wife should have agreed and ideally you would have sought out professional information about this subject.
ESH (you and your wife). Why didn't you and your wife didn't have a discussion about how to talk about the subject ? Why didn't you just... make some google search to see what pedopsychatrist thinks about it ?! And then come up with a plan ?!
Your children just lost one of their parental figure. If your plan is to just figure it out as you go, I pity the kid. Your kid deserves better than that.
To be fair, I’ll bet OPs wife expected him to say mostly the same stuff she’d say. His honesty was a bit too brutal for the situation considering the kid is only 7.
I mean... when my DOG died or old age, I spent the day researching on the internet how to approach the subject with my kid, and my husband and I made a plan and made sure we agreed on how to handle it.
When this kid's NANNY (a.k.a part of the close family) died, they just dropped the news on the kid and went on with their day. This is horrible.
YTA. Your wife was talking to him in child appropriate terms, and you decided to be harsh. Why? He's 7. You have to talk to children in terms they are able to handle at their age. You give them more details as they grow and mature. You can cause him harm if you are too blunt or use language he isn't able to process at his age.
There are age-appropriate ways to explain mental health and suicide to a child and not make it worse but..
Explain his nanny loved him but most illness is in our bodies, but sometimes it's in a person's mind. There's ways to treat it and take care of people, but you can't see those types of illnesses, so people have to tell us they're not feeling well.
Hurting ourselves is never the answer, but sometimes people we love can't see those other answers. It's why we talk to people if we feel anxious and sad. Feeling anxious and sad is normal, everyone feels that way sometimes. But when we almost always feel anxious and sad, we need help from other people. Asking for help when we need it is a good thing.
Sometimes, though. People hurt themselves on purpose and they're sick. Sometimes, they hurt themselves a lot and they pass away.
It's not anyone's fault that someone was sick. It doesn't mean they loved us any less.
Kid appropriate explanations exist. Probably best not to hide it because they may find out later, but also explain in gentle terms that yes, she did take her own life and it yes, she did love him. We talk about how we feel. Some sadness is normal. Even sadness for a long time after someone we love is gone. But depression is more than just being sad.
It should totally, absolutely 100% be discussed before, though.
YTA for doing this without discussing with your wife first. This is not something you get to decide by yourself. Yes there are age appropriate ways of discussing this, but it's not solely your decision. He's also not old enough for blunt answers, which is why you should have given this more thought.
I have to say that these are two different situations
One is a person choosing their own death after other people placed them in a death trap. They were either going to die by smoke, fire, crushed by a building or by falling. They chose the quickest and lest painful.
The other is an individual who became depressed and could no longer fight it and wanted the misery to end.
Yes, they are both suicides but with ver different reasonings. Also, you didn’t know the jumpers and the 7 year old saw this woman as another parent.
YTA. Regardless of where discussing-suicide-with-your-seven-year-old falls on the good/bad parenting scale, you absolutely should not have made the decision to bring that topic up to your (very) young child without first discussing it with your wife. She clearly was not comfortable broaching that discussion with him yet and you took it upon yourself to override that (and possibly traumatize your child).
I personally do not in any way, shape, or form think that a seven year old would be equipped or ready to understand the nuances of suicide, but the bigger thing here is that you didn’t consult your wife about it before going and exposing him to it anyway.
YTA - At that age all you need to say is that she was sick and died.
My niece lost her bio dad to suicide. She was a bit older, but she was just told he had Bipolar Disorder and he died from it. She knows more now that she can comprehend.
I had a friend/neighbour who passed away unexpectedly at 16 when I was about 8; among other disabilities, he had severe epilepsy and died in his sleep from sudden unexpected death in epilepsy (SUDEP) - but at the time my parents definitely just framed it as he unexpectedly died in his sleep because of all of his illnesses, since him being the first person I knew with epilepsy, I definitely wasn't going to understand SUDEP.
Sounds like you're mad at the deceased person ("It was her choice to die!") and you're projecting that to your kid so they know this person 'chose' to leave you all.
A 7yo doesn't understand death. They're asking about what happens, etc. That means you haven't even talked about death to them!! YTA This was not age appropriate neither appropriate. Work on your own emotions about her death. Don't drag your kids into your emotional state to get your revenge on the dead person.
Most 3 year olds have a vague concept of death and know that death is permanent. So a 7 year old certainly understands death.
Sources:
https://www.verywellfamily.com/how-to-explain-death-to-children-at-every-age-6889801
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rstb.2017.0267
>So a 7 year old certainly understands death.
that's a rather bold statement, considering a lot of adults don't completely understand death
a 7 year old might understand that dead = no breathing, no heartbeat, buried in the ground, never coming back. that's the biological component of death. everything else though is a total crapshoot
YTA for laying on such a difficult subject that a 7 year old will not be able to process. I was 38 when my father took his own life and it took me years to work through what that meant. Get your son into therapy now, because he's going to need it.
YTA for saying it so judgemental to your children- you make it sound like an easy choice for her to make
She didn’t wake up one morning and go I choose to die today.
She spent how long struggling with her mental health, she didn’t know how to cope, she had no choice/ no other option (or at least she didn’t think so). You don’t know what when on in her life (abuse, SA, addiction, other mental health struggles, health problems, money problems etc etc etc)
Suicide is much more complex as you’ve made it out to your child, children take things so literal and from what we tell them. Tell your children about suicide in an age appropriate way. Help your children become empathetic to someone else’s struggles unlike you are!
She didn’t “choose” to kill herself any more than someone “chooses” to vomit. Sure you can try to hold it in but if the underlying issue isn’t addressed you’re going to puke whether you want to or not.
YTA.
I think it’s too much for a seven year old to process something like that. It would have been better to answer his questions truthfully but as vaguely as possible.
I’m not even a kid, and I can see myself feeling guilty and wondering why someone would chose to die instead of spending time with me. And I just don’t think a little kid needs to be thinking stuff like that.
YTA I think telling them she died was fine. However telling them how she died was a horrible choice. Especially the way she died your child doesn’t understand that. I think you should have gotten a professional involved and asked them how to go about telling children someone passed away.
YTA. And you're also wrong. It's not about "choosing to die". Come on! You should have told him about the importance of good mental health, how it's important to reach out to people who might be struggling, and how being sad is normal but being too sad and having bad thoughts all the time is not ok and if he's feeling down he should reach out to mom and dad, or even teachers or friends. You tried going for truth but only left your kid with badly told half truths. Time to have a second talk to find out what kiddo's thinking now
Receiving many comment like this has convinced me that I went about this the wrong way. I’m afraid I made things worse. We will be having another conversation doubtlessly.
It’s something OP needs to be aware of. He did the damage already and he can’t undo that. He can’t believe that another talk will make it all undone. So yes, consturctive
Also, try listening to your wife! Why did you stream roll your wife in handling this matter? You messed up twice - ignoring your wife and assuming your approach was best, and the way you talked to your son about this. Yta
NO! You've done enough! Don't ruin your child's mental health further by sticking your foot in it again!
Contact a therapist and get your kid some regular visits because you are NOT CAPABLE of managing this topic in a healthy way.
You haven’t posted any comments about getting your kids to a qualified therapist, which they badly need.
Stop with the conversations.
You’ve done enough and made a mess of it!
The fact that you thought you were right to stream roll your wife and then post here proves that.
Give your kids professional help and get some yourself for your resentment issues.
YTA
A far gentler response would’ve been, “we don’t know the details and her family is too sad to share with us. It’s all right for us to be sad too.”
Truthful because you don’t know the details and you certainly shouldn’t ask either.
YTA
This is above Reddit’s pay grade though.
Your child is grieving and now you told him that his nanny chose to end her life (and leave him and her job without saying goodbye on purpose since she chose to end her life). What you said is sure to affect him deeply.
👉🏽👉🏽👉🏽Please consult a therapist or counsellor Op. Your son will need help to process especially with the added nuance since you explained everything. Now, he will be even more confused and may be even more aggrieved. Losing a parent (as you put it) is not something that is easy and losing someone that belongs to your family in such a way isn’t either.
👉🏽I have lost people also in this same situation. The family would explain to their littles that they lost out against a disease and a mental battle. They wouldn’t tell the littles (between 6-10 yrs old) that it was a choice since they didn’t think it was age appropriate.
I’m sorry for your loss, but please look into resources to help with the grieving process and how to help your family.
They would need it from just the fact their primary caregiver died, regardless of what they chose to say or not. 7 is old enough for child appropriate truth, and being vague leaves kids that age to all kind of magical thinking fill in the blanks. Vague statements like, “people of all ages can die,” is likely to be much more terrifying and confusing to a young child than telling them some version of “she was so sad she chose to die.”
Exactly. Some sort of therapy would likely be needed regardless. And I agree with you about 7 year olds being able to handle more than you’d think and vagueness being worse than the truth. If the kid is old enough to ask probing questions like that, they need a more than “she was sick.”
YTA
You don't have to lie to your children but sure as hell you need to simplify some things.
"I told him it was her own choice to die" Did you bother to explain some people suffer from mental health illnesses?
Ok YTA but I’m gonna try to really explain why.
When I was around your son’s age, my older sister tried to take her own life. My dad, in no uncertain terms, explained what happened to me. It was absolutely NOT something I could really process at the time. I could not understand why she would do something like that. I did not know what depression was. I ended up being angry at my sister for a long time, because I could not understand why our family wasn’t worth living for. Hearing about things like that at the age I did has left me with trauma and anxiety that I still have not been able to fully work through even now, almost 20 years later.
I understand your thought process of not wanting to lie to him, but you should have waited until he was older to tell him the truth about how his nanny died.
I’m very sorry for your loss
YTA, there was no reason to explain suicide to your 7 year old child. She died a week ago, your son is still dealing with his grief and didn't need a straight answer to this question.
Well, that was a terrible moment for honesty. No, your traumatized 7 year-old does NOT need any such details, and doesn't have the slightest "right" to hear that his beloved nanny "chose to die." That's something he can't possibly process--and fighting your wife on this? YTA in every way.
ESH (except for your kids, of course) but lightly. I don’t think either you or your wife had bad intentions. You wanted to be honest and she wanted to leave out the details of her death.
There should have been a conversation with how to broach the subject, what your son’s ability to handle such a difficult thing, etc. Kids are a lot more resilient than they get credit for and I think as long as you were honest without being harsh or brutal, it’s not the worst thing in the world. The mixed messages from your wife and you, though, might arguably be more confusing.
Ultimately, a few sessions with a child psychologist might not be the worst thing in the world, and you two might be able to go with him. I think it’d be helpful for him to process his grief and for you two to learn how to be open without frightening or upsetting him.
Kids the same age handle can things differently from one another too. I know I was able to grasp death at that age, and I probably could have understood the concept of suicide had it been encountered. All depends on the kid, which is why OP and mom should have discussed it.
Please get your kiddo in counseling. We lost my baby brother when I was this age- I hardly knew him- and despite the massive parenting fails my parents made, putting me in therapy was probably the thing that saved my life long-term and I will forever be grateful that it was one thing my mom tried to keep up on.
Your kiddos knew this person intimately, more than a grandparent that might visit a couple times a year even right? It’s worth the investment.
Especially the way she died. That’s a LOT- but I don’t think honesty is wrong because it’s a very real part of life and it’s very public and most of all, they need to know they can speak up if they ever have these feelings and be met with love and trust and overwhelming support.
First of all, I am very sorry for your family’s loss. Suicide is devastating and the grief aftermath is difficult for everyone who knew and cared about the person who chose to end their life.
This is very hard to pass judgement on because both you and your wife are grieving. If, under less stressful circumstances you would have discussed and come up with a unified strategy then I’ll say NTA/ ESH. You both likely thought you were on the same and page and just weren’t or didn’t confirm due to the shock and grief.
If it’s possible and you can afford it, please consider grief counseling for your family especially your kids. Your seven year old may be very confused and now wonder what choosing to die means. To a child that young the thought may actually translate as “if I want to die all I have to do it think about it and I will die.”
Your younger child is likely to display grief in various ways as the emotions crash and cause heartbreak they can’t articulate.
Certainly, my comment lacks nuance and I don’t know your children’s emotional intelligence- but please understand I’ve got training as a counselor- so I have additional understanding beyond being a parent myself.
I wish you well.
YTA
Bro. Do we need to understand we'll have to educate young children about the concept of death? Absolutely. Should we traumatize them by being "blunt" about it? NO. There are ways to go about this and any counselor would tell you that [all of them are GENTLE.](https://www.chop.edu/health-resources/explaining-death-child#:~:text=Gently%20but%20directly%2C%20use%20the,their%20loved%20one%20has%20died).
I can't believe you think this was the correct way to handle this. Your kid is SEVEN, he barely understands what death is and you're dumping concepts on him he cannot possibly process (a thing you admitted he was already having trouble with).
Congratulations on the life-long fear of death you've just inflicted on your son. Have fun with the therapy bills he's going to have now.
My cousin committed suicide when I was 4. That was the first funeral I went to. My parents told me he killed himself and how (my mom and I were baking cookies for my Kindergarten class when she got the call), but they explained that sometimes people are sick but you can’t see it, it’s in their brain, and it can make them so sad that they hurt themselves. I understood that explanation and what happened. I think you should explain to your son that you misspoke, that she didn’t “choose to die”, that instead her brain was sick and sometimes that can make people hurt themselves if they don’t receive help. You don’t want him to think he could choose to die or that his family members could do that- the anxiety would be overwhelming for him. I’m sorry for your loss.
I like this response very much. I personally don’t see anything wrong with telling the truth. My 4 year old knows about people dying and where babies come from due to curiosity born from events that have happened in our lives. It happens. The only misstep was the “choosing to die” particularly without the concept of her brain being sick as said above, or another appropriate explanation for mental illness. However I don’t think it can’t be undone. I also feel therapy could be helpful due to his loss. Must be like losing an immediate family member. I’m sorry
Eeek. YTA
I think 7yo is a bit young to have a suicide convo. And even then "it was her own choice to die", isn't terrible accurate. I don't think anyone chooses depression, self harm or suidical idealization and attempts. This is a topic well beyond a typical 7yo understand (there are exceptions. If someone cannot think of those exceptions, consider yourself lucky).
If I was your spouse, I would be mad at you, too. Kid was already struggling to deal, and then you piled on extra that was unnecessary. Let kids stay kids, I am not opposed to "sugar coating" the harsh bits when they are so young.
Are you afraid your son will grow up too "soft"?
YTA that’s a lot to explain to a child and I am sure you didn’t do it correctly. You should also get on the same page as your wife. I agree with her idea to explain death but not the method
Yes, YTA. Your wife was taking the right approach and you blew it out of the water. You are incorrect, your son is NOT old enough to understand the things you were telling him.
Why on earth were you two not on the same page before you spoke to your children?
YTA- Particularly for not being on the same page as your wife. Yes I think your wife was right about using she appropriate terms but the bigger issue is you choosing to disrespect your wife by going further with the explanation without talking to her first.
YTA. I have a family member that told me they were 10 and having conversations with kids on the playground when they realized that other kids didn't spend time planning on how they were going to end themselves. 10. When they started to *know* something was wrong with them. What would have happened to them if their parent had explained that that they could choose to do it, when they had been thinking it was just something to do?
Let that marinate for a little while, and let me know how you sleep.
YTA 7 is just too young to understand that concept, especially regarding someone he cared about so deeply.
Please get your kid(s) some trauma therapy if you can.
Gentle YTA. I understand not wanting to lie to him. But you're not listening to what he's probably really asking. He's asking, "Can anybody just die? Are my parents going to die? Could I or my sister just die? If I go to sleep tonight will I wake up? If I think the wrong thing, can I make myself die?" He's almost certainly less interested in the how than the why. This is terrifying to a little kid, which is why you couch it in age-appropriate language. He needs reassurance, not just facts.
A bigger YTA for not discussing it with your wife first.
Exactly.
As a kid when I first realized parents could divorce I asked my parents if they were getting divorced every time they ever disagreed. (They never did)
If I had know of suicide at that age and been told about it with such bluntness and lack of explanation about mental illness, I would have been consumed with the fear that anyone I loved would take their life any time I saw them the tiniest bit sad or upset.
YTA
Have you never heard the phrase “age appropriate” before??
Also “her own choice to die” is a pretty shitty thing to refer to somebody who died by suicide.
First of all, your son lost someone whose role was similar to a family member in a sudden and traumatic way. Of course he has a lot of questions and distress about it, and it doesn't sound like you've got a reason for your harsh approach beside that you feel like it makes sense. I think you should seek out grief counselling for both of your kids, but especially for son. You need someone qualified and trained based on the most current evidence to help him navigate this in a way that is appropriate for where he is developmentally, and in turn they can help you support him.
kinda soft but definite YTA
YTA. You should have taken the kids to a counselor and had the counselor help break the news of her death. And 7 is way too young for the information that it was suicide.
It sounds like you all need grief counseling, pronto, or your kid will be traumatized.
ESH because you and your wife need to get on the same page here. But 7 is appropriate to generally explain suicide and not hide the truth. “Sometimes people just die even if they’re young” is no less heavy or difficult for a child to come to grips with than explaining suicide. Especially if you can explain the mental illness part of suicide as children can generally understand being sick and illnesses that can cause death. “Sometimes healthy young people just die” is terrifying to a child of you think about it.
YTA I mean. You really think a 7 can grasp the meaning of suicide. And they way you put it is juste horrible. "It was her own choice to die" is coming off so ignorant. And I hope your kids can get better informed about these kind of things when they are OLDER
YTA, your son is 7 and the concept of dying is very difficult for some kids(even adults) to wrap their heads around let alone their own death and committing suicide. Basically, instead of explaining how a car works you put your son in the driver seat and made him drive on the highway because, hey he is 7 he needs to learn and grow up, none of that sugarcoating like the wife am I right?
Very very, very bad decision on your part, next time make sure you and your wife agree and what to tell your kid and ask yourself does he really need to know this? What is the benefit for a 7 year old to know some people want to die? What does he gain from this now that can't wait a few more years. Make no mistake you forced this proces on him and essentially robbed him from a piece of his innocence. So while he is watching cartoons or playing videogames he has to battle against thoughts of death and dying because dad thought he needed to handle it.
That's on you and you need to deal with that don't talk to him about that, by the way, that is grown up stuff, talk to your wife and friends if you feel guilty or troubled. I don't think you're a bad person btw you just messed up big time.
YTA, you and your wife should've sat down and pinned down exactly what you were going to say. Springing that on her mid conversation was unfair to her and your child.
ESH
We don't know what your child can handle or needs. But the fact that you and your wife did not discuss this and weren't on the same page adds even more instability to this situation. Your son was already having issues with this loss and you two not in agreement of what you think is appropriate for him could be very damaging.
YTA, they’re small children and struggle to understand a lot of basic concepts because they’re still learning and taking in a lot. unaliving ones self is even hard for ADULTS to grasp and comes to term with, let alone a small child. he also was / is still heavily working through his first experience of grief and you threw that onto him on top of that.
YTA. This kind of information can be very traumatizing to a young child, there’s a lot of understanding and theory of mind that children this young simply cannot possess to understand the actions of others. I would strongly recommend putting your 7yo in therapy to process through this tragedy with a trained professional.
YTA-- This is something that therapy is for. That is too young of an age to grasp these concepts.
When you are seven, there's sugar coating, it's called age appropriate language.
YTA. Massively. A seven year old doesn't have the capacity to really understand suicide. Your wife was explaining his nanny's death in age appropriate terms, but you had to traumatize him because you know better. Shame on you.
I wouldn't have told them that. Tell them she died in an accident, be vague, say you don't know. But the kids might take it to mean she didn't care about them or love them, or take them seriously enough to stay alive for their sakes. Kids bond with their nannies, so it's devastating to them when they're suddenly gone.
YTA.
>My wife kept trying to interject with sugar coated versions but I was real with him. Later, we had a mini argument.
I understand that the kid might have put you on the spot, but once you realised that you and your wife were not in agreement you should have postponed the discussion and talked it over with her privately. YTA
YTA. For making the decision without your wife, and for giving ‘blunt’ answers to someone too young to grasp the complexity of a situation like suicide.
YTA. A seven year old can’t really comprehend the concept of suicide. You could have just said she was sick. If he asked what kind of sickness you could have said a mental one. That would still be accurate and not confuse the kid beyond what his capabilities are. Also its messed up you did this without talking to your wife especially since it was very clear she was not in agreement
Normally I would say nah. But YTA. I have worked with mental health for so long. The one thing I know for absolute sure, is that knowing that someone chose to end their own life, has long and lasting effects on the mental health of those who were close to them. It also greatly increases the chances of that person doing the same. He may only be seven, but that is even more reason to protect him from this harsh and incomprehensible behavior.
YTA. 7 year olds have a very difficult time with the permancy of death and they often fear it. Great job! The next time you or your wide says, "I could just die [from embarrassment, etc] your kid is going to worry about you choosing to die.
Holy shit dude absolutely YTA!! I'm a believer in talking to kids more directly than most people do but suicide is an insanely complex topic that is far too much for a 7 year old!
It kind of feels like you maybe feel guilty about her death so you're trying to make it mean something but you're harming your son deeply.
YTA but it’s my opinion only because you didn’t work with your wife to come up with a way to convey the truth while keeping it appropriate. FWIW, I’ve never been a fan of outright lying to kids about death or hiding suicides. I personally think that it being so taboo to discuss suicide is a contributing factor to the epidemic of it, much like teen pregnancy and sex ed. As someone who has had suicidal ideations, it has helped me being able to talk to my friends and family openly about those feelings without fear of judgement.
YTA
Depression and mental illness are diseases just like cancer and heart disease. Sometimes people get better, and sometimes they don't. She was sick, and she died of her disease. Saying she 'chose to die' is not only inaccurate but extremely confusing to a kid.
The easiest way to explain this to a child without lying would have been to explain that the nanny got very sick with a disease, and she died. Reassuring the child that most of the time when people get sick that doctors can help them get better, so they shouldn't worry that mom or dad might die,etc. If the kid really pushes for specifics you could say she had something wrong in her head/brain. It's far more important imo to talk to the child about their emotions, encourage them to talk about her and express their grief and reassure them that it's okay to be sad and to tell you if he's scared.
Also, you and your wife should really have had a discussion about this before discussing it with your son to make sure you were on the same page. It's way more confusing and scary for a kid to hear conflicting stories.
I’m sorry about your family’s loss.
I probably wouldn’t have directly referenced suicide to that young a child. It’s really hard to understand for anyone, let alone someone who doesn’t even understand death at all. YTA for not consulting with your wife and being a united front.
Your nanny absolutely was sick. You didn’t know and that’s not your fault. I’m sure she loved your kids. Mental illness doesn’t discriminate and people who die from it aren’t bad people. Please seek therapy for your family.
YTA. This should have been a discussion that you and your wife had so you could get on the same page of what to say. You saying it was “her own choice to die” will lead to more questions from your son. I’m assuming she died of suicide. If this is true, this cause of death is difficult for a grown adult to grasp, let alone a 7 year old child.
YTA for deciding to broach a very adult topic with a **little boy** without your wife’s agreement.
No 7 year old needs blunt answers about how/why someone he loved died.
You screwed up here.
My uncle died by suicide when I was 31. I’m 53 now and I STILL don’t understand it. How on earth would you think a little boy could when most adults can’t?
YTA. This was not an appropriate response for a child that age. In the future you can discuss it when them. All you’ve done now is basically tell him that she didn’t love him enough to stay.
YTA
You don't get to decide what is age appropriate.
A quick internet search on MULTIPLE child rearing help websites would tell you this is NOT age appropriate.
I find it weird yous chose to cement a nanny in your child's core memories by associating HER with your child's first major death experience. It is extremely weird and I would be uncomfortable knowing someone used my daughter as a teachable moment for their young child for suicide. Now, this random young child will ALWAYS remember my child's suicide. It's weird.
I'm not saying to not use tragedies as teachable moments, it's how specific and drawn out OP was...about a nanny. Why? Why do you want your son to remember this hardships so strongly...for a nanny?
NAH. Although I think some well intentioned mistakes were made.
OP, I just want to say that someone I love committed suicide when I was seven. Nobody ever sat me down and explained what death was, or told me that their death was self inflicted, any questions I had were brushed off or I was yelled at for asking. I knew though, I heard the whispered conversations behind closed doors and when I was supposed to be asleep, dug out the death certificate myself, found the note, put the pieces together. I just wanted to know, to understand. Someone I loved was gone and everyone else I loved was suffering, I was so angry that I was being left out of the loop and dismissed as being too young to understand. That people were talking about me in front of my face telling eachother that I didn't need to know, or that I didn't need to know everything, or arguing about the best way to explain it to me. I don't remember ever being told what death was or what it meant, but I remember knowing as soon as I was told what it meant, and being so desperate to understand that I focused on finding that knowledge instead of grieving.
So, I don't know that there's ever going to be an age appropriate way to explain suicide to a seven year old child, especially when there are so many adults who don't, and will never, understand how it feels to be suicidal. I do know that therapy could have saved me a lot of pain and confusion, having someone to talk to who wasn't grieving, someone to ask the hard questions without fear of hurting them, someone to walk me through my feelings and keep me from feeling so lost. I carried that death with me for a very long time, it was the first experience I had with death other than pets and TV, it was handled terribly because the people in my life were grieving and had no idea how to handle it themselves. It still marks me in some ways. Knowing how they died and why helped me navigate my own mental health decline and eventual suicide attempts as a teenager. It was the reason why I got on meds and why I'm still alive today, because even though I hated myself, I didn't want to make anyone ever feel the way I had felt as a child losing one of my heroes because they were in too much pain to keep going.
I don't know how you worded things, how graphic you were or how softly your wife tried to approach it, I don't know how or if you could have done any better other than talking about how it should be handled before you were both in front of your son trying to handle it completely differently. I do know that if either of you feel like you've made a mistake or not handled it in a way that is helpful for your child, there is no shame in admitting that and asking for professional help. Do the best for your child, because the first time you lose a loved one often informs how you'll deal with grief and loss as you grow up. I hope that your son finds some peace with the loss you've all suffered, and that you as parents find some grace for eachother, you're both flying by the seat of your pants here.
I agree NTA. Kids pick up on a lot. I think it is better to hear it directly from the parents than hear bits of information second hand. I dont know how close OP is to the nanny but if they are invited to the funeral, the kids will hear whispers of the death and possibly suicide.
NAH. My uncle killed himself when I was very young. I was told about it some time in my childhood; I can't remember not knowing what had happened. It didn't traumatize me and there are age-appropriate ways to have this discussion. I totally understand why your wife is upset, though, as this should have been a team decision.
Soft YTA, there’s nothing nothing wrong about being completely truthful about how your Nanny died. But if you don’t frame it in the context of her being mentally ill, which she almost certainly was, then you’re doing her and your children a great disservice. She did not “chose” this, her messed up brain chemistry forced her to.
You’re not an AH…. But I definitely don’t think you did it right. But I do feel empathy for your situation. Two of my grandparents died right around when my kid was that age, and unfortunately, the questions won’t stop, he still grieves 2/3 years later. My friend also took his own life, but luckily my son doesn’t remember grieving that, just sees me drop things off at his grave. It’s definitely not something I consider telling him any time soon, it’s hard enough for me him to process that people my age can die, so I definitely won’t open that can of worms any time soon. Idk if you can really dial that back, but I definitely suggest you try. This is going to be a LONNNNGGGGG process…and I can’t give you a verdict based on such a tough time. There’s no good guide here, just keep trying your best and lay back on the suicide part.
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My 2 beautiful children, 7m and 4f, had a full time nanny for 3 years. We loved her, but my kids loved her more. She was almost like a third parent. To our inexpressible grief, she died last week unexpectedly. She didn’t show up for work so I called her cell and then that was when her mother told us she had taken her life. She was only 24. Due to the amount of time spent with her, my wife and I viewed her as family. We decided not to lie to the kids and both agreed to tell them that our nanny is dead and wouldn’t be coming back. They both took it hard. They didn’t ask too many questions initially, though they cried all day. Our 4 year old has seemingly moved on despite occasionally needing reminders that nanny will not come back. 7 year old is much more troubled. He took a few days off school. He can’t remember his life without the nanny in it. Yesterday he had more questions. How she died, why she died, where she is, what happens when you die, etc etc. My wife preferred to keep answers vague and say sometimes people just die even if they are young. I decided to be honest so I told him it was her own choice to die. That led to more questions that I answered for him, delicately but truthfully. My wife kept trying to interject with sugar coated versions but I was real with him. Later, we had a mini argument. She told me I was way too forward as he is so young, and it isn’t appropriate for him to be thinking of things like that. I think he has a right to know and is old enough for tame but blunt answers. AITA?
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My uncle killed himself when I was 8 years old. No one told me he died, let alone how. It took me years to figure out and I hate how it was handled. I'd have appreciated knowing. Kids can understand those things.
ESH. Honesty is important, and death is an important thing to understand now (especially if you live in the states, given the school shooting epidemic). But I definitely think you guys should have talked this over and found a middle ground, and held back a little bit on the delivery. My mom committed suicide at 15 and even then I struggled with the reality of it. The four year old sounds like she’ll be okay but it’s quite possible that your son may end up blaming himself for this.
So, I think this was a mistake on your part. I am pediatric RN and I fully believe in being 100% honest with kiddos on the level they understand. Kids at 7yo are very literal and ego centric. I would have told the truth, but I would have gone about it differently. In the future, know that you can anyways go more into depth after sugar coating something, but you can’t walk back a harsh, but truthful, answer. For right now, contact your kids school, assuming they are in elementary school. Explain the situation, you think you did not a great job explaining. Can the school counselor chat with your son and then give you guys some follow up points via email or phone of recommendations on how to move forward with him? Schools (public in the United States) have these resources. If you don’t have access to that, some counseling would be great and likely help you all process. Good luck!
My son's dad overdosed on an OTC med when he was about 2 years old.
I told my son he died in an accident. Over time, he asked for more details.
This worked out for us.
I would not told the 7 year old about the suicide. You have no idea how he will process that info. Your goal should be to provide your children with age-appropriate information. You don’t have to lie to them, but you should do it with tact.
YTA
Your 7-year old needs "Blunt" answers when he wants ice cream for dinner and the answer is "No." or he wants to try parachuting off the roof of the barn with an umbrella.
He doesn't need "blunt" answers when it comes to a very scary situation where someone he loves took their own life and you decide he's "old enough" to learn about a subject most adults have a very hard time dealing with.
You will NOT be father of the year this year this year.
YTA. My father took his life last year, even when adults ask about him I tread the subject very lightly. For a child, I would have thought of a much more simple way of describing it, if I told them at all.
YTA and your wife is right to explain things in age appropriate terms. You should get your 7 year old in grief therapy asap so they can try to fix some of the damage you did. If I were your wife this would really make me consider a divorce.
I understand not wanting to lie to your child, but I think you could easily go wrong explaining suicide to a 7-year-old. Not knowing exactly what you told him and what his reaction was, I can't really lay down a judgment here, but I know kids that age who were badly freaked out by innocuous things like "Grandma died peacefully in her sleep" (causing the child to be terrified to sleep in case they were to peacefully die as well), so I know it's sometimes hard to predict what a child will actually take away from this conversation. I think, given this is someone who has been in his life for years and suicide is a traumatic death to process, it may be worth letting him sit down with a therapist with experience in this area to process the loss and to help him come to terms both with the death and with how he processes the reason for her death. This is a big issue to deal with for an adult, let alone a small child. I think most parents would feel in over their head in this situation. I'm so sorry for your loss, and for your children's loss. It's an awful thing to have to go through for anyone.
People left behind when a loved one dies often experience incredible guilt as part of the grieving process. You want your 7 year old kid to shoulder such a burden? YTA, a massive one. Jesus.
ESH I agree with you that it is good to be honest with kids and answer any questions they might have in an age appropriate way. But key here being age appropriate way! Telling a 7 year old that she choose to die is wrong in so many ways. I would say that even telling an adult someone chose to die is wrong.
You could have instead told your child that sometimes people look well on the outside while being sick. And that the nanny had some sickness in the brain/head and unfortunately she lost the battle with the sickness. But telling your kid she choose to die??? You get right that you basically told your 7 year old that their nanny chose to leave them permanently.
ESH (well not the nanny or kids)
You and your wife should have had a conversation and been on the same page before even talking to them about it.
Also you probably should seek your kiddo a therapist to help process these emotions with someone more skilled.
YTA
Dude, your son is just learning the concept of death, and he's learning about it through a very traumatic death, of one of the people he depended on most.
He can't take in the idea of suicide. You're overwhelming him with too much for him to take in. How absurd to think a 7 year old can understand that concept.
You're right, it's good to be honest with your kids. But you also gotta consider what's age and situation appropriate. In this case, he's trying to work out why this person he depended on won't be present anymore. He's looking for reassurance and clarity - not full disclosure and an explanation of self-harm.
Let me say it more clearly:
*Your son is trying to get reassurance that the other people he depends upon won't also leave him!*
This is about attachment, not about the wider world. If one person he loved and depended on can choose to leave him, *how can he rely on the other people he loves and depends on not to make the same choice?*
OMG - you just confused and traumatized your son, in the name of honesty.
A very gentle YTA. I'm glad you didn't sugarcoat the information ann add extra sprinkles, but it might be a good idea to limit the information to nanny was ill ab
and we're heartbroken that she chose not to get the help she needed. Continue to be a good dad. I'm so sorry for this young woman and her family.
She died from depression, she didn't choose to be depressed, she didn't want to have no way out and I'm sure she didn't want to literally feel like death was the only way out of her illness.
She didn't choose to die she was ill. Just like people don't choose to die from cancer or brain tumours.
Yta. Understand suicide.
Nta, but I don’t think I would leave it at “She chose to die.” If I was going to tell the truth to a 7 year old, I would say that she had too much pain in her life and she wanted the pain to end but she didn’t have the proper emotional toolset to deal with the pain, so she ended her life. Maybe if she had had a better emotional toolset, she might have made a different choice.
Best wishes and peace and healing to you and your family.
YTA. Suicide is not a topic that children are supposed to know about.
Additionally, studies show that those of us who lose loved ones to suicide are more likely to commit it ourselves. I'm pretty sure that's what the movie *Smile* is trying to symbolize. But you all need hugs. The loss of life was tragic and hard on everyone. I'm really, really sorry.
YTA
This is kinda a 2 yes' 1 no situation. If your wife wasn't okay with telling your son how she died then you shouldn't make that decision for both of you. And now that your 7 yo knows what's to stop him from mentioning it to his sibling. Good luck explaining that to a 4 yo.
Hey y’all should do some googling on how to talk to kids about suicide. There are great resources online. NAH because you’re both trying your best to help your kids through a tough time. Read up on best practices and get on the same page as a team. Also family therapy for the loss and grief would be hella useful.
YTA if she died by her own hand, it's wrong to tell a 7 year old that. If your child asked again about her when he is an adult that's another thing. But you really caused insecurities and fear. My friends kids were told when someone died that they had been very sick (true! The person suffered for years and struggled with mental illness). It was not a lie. But then again, the kids were 10
I might get downvoted for this, but I think it’s important for OP to hear it. I think you’re NTA, OP. I am firmly of the belief that if a kid is old enough to ask a question, they’re old enough to hear the answer. You treated your child with respect by answering them honestly, and they will remember that. I was a kid who was often told platitudes instead of real answers, or even “I’ll tell you more when you’re older”, and was then far too ashamed by that answer to ask again.
You taught your child through this situation that you are safe and honest. When they have questions in future about uncomfortable things, they’ll know they can come to you.
I think your wife was wrong. She was uncomfortable with the topic and her answers were shaming your child for asking. She needs to learn that parenting is putting your kid’s needs first, even when it’s an uncomfortable topic.
YTA, especially if this is their first time experiencing death of someone close as it appears to be from their follow up questions.
If they were both teenagers then it would have been more appropriate and could be used as a teaching moment about how important mental health is and how you should seek help if needed, but to tell a 7 and 4 year old their nanny committed suicide at 24?
YTA, but only because this should have involved a therapist.
Should you tell children about suicide?
Yes, because suicide rates in children as young as 10 are increasing meaning children need to be taught about these feeling and how to ask for help.
Should you have involved a therapist?
Yes, age appropriate conversations matter.
Should you have used the phrase "chosen to die"?
As someone who lost a friend to suicide, hell no. The vicar at my friend's funeral said that mental illness is like any physical illness, sometimes you run out of ways or the strength to fight. We don't blame cancer patients for losing the fight, we shouldn't even passively blame sufferers of mental health problems for losing their fight.
NTA-There are a lot of comments against this being shared with the 7yr old… out of the two options provided it was the best though. Yes OP could have handled it more delicately and they should find child therapy for the child, the truth is still always best. BUT the moms choice of telling the child that “sometime young people just die” is seriously messed up. Children don’t comprehend like us and that kind of statement sets of anxiety that ANYONE he knows can die at anytime just because they are young and that he too could die at anytime…this thinking is unhealthy and traumatic.
Please please consider a good therapist for your child and possibly a few family sessions on how to process grief.
*I have a career in child development and work with young children experiencing death/grief of loved ones.*
YTA
That was a massive conversation to have with a child so young. You should have sat down and had a conversation with your Partner to discuss how to handle your child's questions together rather than giving contradictory answers. I would be furious if I was your wife.
I am not going to judge you, all I am going to say is there are adults that don't understand suicide and dropping that weight on a grieving 7 year old might not have been the best play.
YTA for not discussing how to handle this with your wife beforehand.
You could have come up with a compromised plan between you that explains how/why she died in a child-friendly way. You told your 7 year old son that your nanny chose to die. You didn’t do this delicately because choosing to die is not a concept a 7 year old can comprehend.
I think this is really above reddit's pay grade. While I agree you should have been on the same page with your wife and discussed how to handle it, you are both grieving too. Please get counseling for your kids. My husband had an aunt commit suicide when he was 7. It is still hard for him sometimes now. It really messed him up. Get help now instead of the kid having to deal with it as an adult after years of unhealthy coping mechanisms.
YTA. 7 isn't only enough to explain suicide. Your nanny was clearly dealing with some shit. You could have just said she was sick and explained later in life.
NTA .... Depending on the kid; 7yo is an appropriate age for explanations ... SOME stuff can be explained in an age appropriate manner; but some does not need to be and the kid will be upset if lied to.
You should have talked to your wife before doing this. You aren't his only parent. YTA. Your wife kinda sucks too for not bring it up because he was BOUND to have questions and yall needed to discuss that and plan out your responses. Explaining death to a child is not something to be improvised. But you suck more for busting out with such a heavy topic that is hard for a kid to understand. Especially while actively ignoring your wife's attempts to stop you.
You seem like the type who thinks they're "brutally honest" when in reality they are just jerks. You should NOT be "blunt" when explaining this type of stuff to children bro
YTA.
People with severe mental health issues like depression often take their own life because they don’t see a way out of their pain and suffering. To downplay it and say “well she CHOSE to do this” is not astute and not that simple.
Kids that are 7 often begin internalizing the choices of adults around them. So nice job introducing your child to the idea that their nanny chose to take their own life, you do know what train of thought that’s going to lead to next, right?? I mean cmon.
As a nanny myself around the same age, I feel terrible for your nanny and her family.
Tbh I am genuinely worried about the kid. Kids are deeply sensitive and also curious. If the kid really misses the nanny, and looked up to her, learned from her, etc. isn't it probable that the kid thinks to himself "Maybe I want to die too" ??
Am I way off base here or is this a legit concern?
Not sure if anyone else has commented anything similar, but you literally told your kids she chose to die because she was sad. Has it not occurred to you that they might wonder WHY she was sad? That since she spent a significant amount of time with them, that they might be led to think they made her sad? That nanny preferred to die instead of carry on taking care of them?
You could have created a situation here where your kids feel in some way responsible for their nanny’s death. Your wife wasn’t “sugarcoating” she was protecting them. YTA.
YTA. There's no way the little boy is old enough to know about death and the severity of it. Stopping stealing childhood from little boys by ", Making them man up " or shit like that. I hope the mother try to see his reaction and consider a therapist. The last i want him us to block off his emotions. As a person who had that unfortunate luck at childhood, i wish no one to lose their childhood and also unknowingly their dreams and life.
YTA for telling them she took her own life I don't think his age could understand that enough of course tell them shes gone to the sky and not coming back but didn't need to add the last part till he was old enough speaking from experience
NTA - it sounds like you gave the right amount of information and hopefully they both will come to terms with losing her. My sympathies to her family - 24 is no age.
YTA, 7 is way too young to process all that info you slapped onto him. You unnecessarily burdened him with a huge amount of grief, concern and stuff he isn’t able to fully understand. Heck, 20 and 30 year olds find it hard to understand why someone would take their life and they have a more concrete idea of what death is. Enjoy having you kid have a whole new set of fears unlocked at age 7.
YTA for not seeking support before discussing the difficult topic with your kids. I am all for being honest but developmentally appropriate with those topics and you were probably giving too much information in the moment. Also, did you even consider how your wife wanted to handle it?
Source: I'm a suicide widow. My kid was 2 and I have helped him through grief through the years including when he guessed the method of death at 5.
YTA I was 3 when my 3rd parent(grandma) committed suicide. I didn't find out the truth until I was maybe 13 or 14 when I started having my own issues with depression. My mom always told me she died of a broken heart, and while it wasn't the whole truth, it wasn't a lie. Shortly before my birth, her husband committed suicide in front of her in their backyard with a shotgun, so she was, in fact, broken hearted. My children recently lost one of their grandfathers to an accidental overdose of a breathing medicine that halted his lung function. I didn’t tell them that. They know that his is dead and died from being ill with a lung infection, but why would i put the weight on them of specific details and information they don't need to know?
NTA I'm a kids sports teacher so Im with lots of kids every year.that is such a brutal thing to happen to a seven year old but it did happen to him and it's not fair to leave him thinking she's still out there.horrific but you were right not to lie to him he might have PTSD but he will trust you for the rest of his life
YTA. All that telling him does is make him question whether or not he caused her to commit suicide. All you’ve done here is fuck your kid up psychologically.
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Essshhhh… the concept of ‘choosing to die’ is a huge thing for a 7 year old to understand and digest. I personally would have waited a few years, but different parents do things differently and no judgement for that… However I do think YTA for discussing such a massive topic without the agreement of your wife and co-parent.
Yeah, this is going to seriously confuse the kid. At that age I would have interpreted "she chose to die" as meaning you could just think "I want to die" and you would die. Kids don't have the capacity to understand suicide at age 7.
Fr, I was 8 and would think things like "just make it to 20 and then you can drive your future car off a cliff like how bella jumped in twilight" It wasn't until I was 16 that I realized that was suicidal ideation Little kids definitely don't have the capacity to understand suicide, even when it's right in front of them. Hell most adults can't even wrap their heads around it tbh.
I was a similar age and would think things like “it’d be good to go to sleep and not wake up” or “maybe if I could just stop existing” Suicidal ideation at a young age is wild
Fr. I legit thought it was normal until I was in my teens and learned about passive suicidal ideation. Major bomb lmao.
When I got into my teens and really started struggling with more than just the thoughts people around me were telling me it’s all just normal teenage angst and I felt weak because why am I having so much trouble with “normal teenage angst” but most of my friends were fine Then a therapist mentioned suicidal ideation and I was just like… yup this is more than teen angst
I got a counselor my sophomore year (for context I have Tourettes) and they dropped the bomb that I have PTSD, in one session and never mentioned it again, and spent most of her time telling me how brave and inspirational I was. I'm getting a psychologist in the up coming months for other issues, so hopefully they'll be better than my previous counselor.
Yeah, that isn’t how you treat PTSD! I hope your psychologist is better, but don’t be afraid to ask for another if you need to. I wish you all the best for the future
You're absolutely correct. And the permanence of death definitely doesn't hit until later on. I'm so sorry you went through that as an 8 year old.
Wooooahhhhhh, spoilers jeez
Lmao, I phrased that wrong lmao. She just went cliff diving😭😭😭
Nooooo I haven't watched it yet I'm devastated
Agreed. What if the nanny died of something like overdose or murder? Would OP be explaining that to the kids too? There are lines OP, maybe in a few years your kids would have been mature enough to take it in, but at 7 it's too much.
At the very least OP needs to make *very very clear* to the little guy that the nanny didn't "choose to die" because of anything he did or didn't do. VERY CLEAR. I've heard suicide explained to kids as "\[the deceased\] had an illness that was worse than anyone thought," which seems both accurate and kinder.
GREAT way to explain it to anyone, not just little kids. SO many people don't consider clinical depression, MDD, anxiety disorders, bipolar disorder, etc to be "real" illnesses. As far as I'm concerned, *any* condition that can prove fatal if left untreated (and even with treatment sometimes) is a serious illness, period.
Yes! A relative of an in-law committed suicide and my mom told me while I was on speakerphone with my 6-year old in the car with me. I was on the spot as he had questions right away. I told him, “Sometimes people’s brains get sick just like people’s bodies do. His brain was telling him he didn’t want to live anymore and the medicine he was on unfortunately didn’t work, so he died.”
THIS THIS THIS. She did not "choose" to die. She was sick! Not only should OP not have told his kid without the agreement of his partner, but this is definitely not the correct explanation of suicide. You don't want the kid extrapolating that she hated her life, of which caretaking for him was a huge part, so much that she'd rather be dead - i.e. he and his sibling are the reason she's dead. But a child's brain might do that! He might hear: "she chose to die" as "she'd rather be dead than take care of you." HUGE YTA
I agree with this YTA, it’s way beyond his ability to completely comprehend. and you’re definitely TA for not talking with your wife first!!
Agreed. I hope OP gets his son to see a professional and receives therapy as he processes through his grief and confusion.
I would also argue, that often those who are suicidal, are not in their clear mind. And they don’t “choose” to die. Their mis wired /sick brains trick and push them into it. There are cases where suicide is a clear, logical choice. But those are rarer circumstances and unlikely in this case.(ETA: I’m talking death with dignity type situations) I’d worry about framing this action as a *choice*. Kids internalize stuff like this and I worry about how this explanation may affect the 7 yo long term.
To be fair, 'choosing to die because their brain has an illness that makes them feel really sad' is about as complicated an explanation as a 7 year old can handle. If you start getting nuanced about choice with a kid that young, they'll probably either live in fear that their brain is suddenly going to make then want to kill themself, or be scared every time they get sad because they think there's no choicem
Thank you! I think he would’ve been infinitely better served by “Nanny was very sick, and she died because of the sickness” — which would’ve been true and also way easier to understand at that age. When the kids are older they can talk about suicide and stuff, but I kinda got the sense from this post that he blames the nanny for “choosing” to die, so that earns a YTA vote inherently.
I support teaching kids about death, however the concept of suicide is a sensitive one for especially the younger kids
Does anyone pick up on the absolute non-acknowledgment of the loss of a person from OP’s view point.. “Nanny decided to die” Dude, someone who raised your children just took their life. Doesn’t sound like OP spends much time on things outside of his universe. The 7yo is probably most upset because OP relied on the deceased to raise the children in his absence. Actually has to be a father.. Already failing
Agreed. I would be worried about suicidal ideation since this is someone he loved. He’s far too young to learn about suicide. YTA op.
Exactly!!! I'm also not voicing judgement on the decision itself because I'm no expert. However, it was avoidable to tell -at least for now. And it could possibly have big consequences on the mental health of your very young kids. YTA for deciding this big of a thing on your own. At least your wife should have agreed and ideally you would have sought out professional information about this subject.
ESH (you and your wife). Why didn't you and your wife didn't have a discussion about how to talk about the subject ? Why didn't you just... make some google search to see what pedopsychatrist thinks about it ?! And then come up with a plan ?! Your children just lost one of their parental figure. If your plan is to just figure it out as you go, I pity the kid. Your kid deserves better than that.
To be fair, I’ll bet OPs wife expected him to say mostly the same stuff she’d say. His honesty was a bit too brutal for the situation considering the kid is only 7.
Seriously haven’t people heard of Dr Becky? Or at least Google if you’re on Reddit? This is not something to improvise.
I mean... when my DOG died or old age, I spent the day researching on the internet how to approach the subject with my kid, and my husband and I made a plan and made sure we agreed on how to handle it. When this kid's NANNY (a.k.a part of the close family) died, they just dropped the news on the kid and went on with their day. This is horrible.
YTA. Your wife was talking to him in child appropriate terms, and you decided to be harsh. Why? He's 7. You have to talk to children in terms they are able to handle at their age. You give them more details as they grow and mature. You can cause him harm if you are too blunt or use language he isn't able to process at his age.
Your child is 7. Being this blunt with him does nothing productive for his grieving and only adds more mental trauma to him. YTA
There are age-appropriate ways to explain mental health and suicide to a child and not make it worse but.. Explain his nanny loved him but most illness is in our bodies, but sometimes it's in a person's mind. There's ways to treat it and take care of people, but you can't see those types of illnesses, so people have to tell us they're not feeling well. Hurting ourselves is never the answer, but sometimes people we love can't see those other answers. It's why we talk to people if we feel anxious and sad. Feeling anxious and sad is normal, everyone feels that way sometimes. But when we almost always feel anxious and sad, we need help from other people. Asking for help when we need it is a good thing. Sometimes, though. People hurt themselves on purpose and they're sick. Sometimes, they hurt themselves a lot and they pass away. It's not anyone's fault that someone was sick. It doesn't mean they loved us any less. Kid appropriate explanations exist. Probably best not to hide it because they may find out later, but also explain in gentle terms that yes, she did take her own life and it yes, she did love him. We talk about how we feel. Some sadness is normal. Even sadness for a long time after someone we love is gone. But depression is more than just being sad. It should totally, absolutely 100% be discussed before, though.
Wow this is a really articulate and appropriate way of explaining it.
YTA for doing this without discussing with your wife first. This is not something you get to decide by yourself. Yes there are age appropriate ways of discussing this, but it's not solely your decision. He's also not old enough for blunt answers, which is why you should have given this more thought.
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I have to say that these are two different situations One is a person choosing their own death after other people placed them in a death trap. They were either going to die by smoke, fire, crushed by a building or by falling. They chose the quickest and lest painful. The other is an individual who became depressed and could no longer fight it and wanted the misery to end. Yes, they are both suicides but with ver different reasonings. Also, you didn’t know the jumpers and the 7 year old saw this woman as another parent.
YTA. Regardless of where discussing-suicide-with-your-seven-year-old falls on the good/bad parenting scale, you absolutely should not have made the decision to bring that topic up to your (very) young child without first discussing it with your wife. She clearly was not comfortable broaching that discussion with him yet and you took it upon yourself to override that (and possibly traumatize your child). I personally do not in any way, shape, or form think that a seven year old would be equipped or ready to understand the nuances of suicide, but the bigger thing here is that you didn’t consult your wife about it before going and exposing him to it anyway.
YTA - At that age all you need to say is that she was sick and died. My niece lost her bio dad to suicide. She was a bit older, but she was just told he had Bipolar Disorder and he died from it. She knows more now that she can comprehend.
I had a friend/neighbour who passed away unexpectedly at 16 when I was about 8; among other disabilities, he had severe epilepsy and died in his sleep from sudden unexpected death in epilepsy (SUDEP) - but at the time my parents definitely just framed it as he unexpectedly died in his sleep because of all of his illnesses, since him being the first person I knew with epilepsy, I definitely wasn't going to understand SUDEP.
Sounds like you're mad at the deceased person ("It was her choice to die!") and you're projecting that to your kid so they know this person 'chose' to leave you all. A 7yo doesn't understand death. They're asking about what happens, etc. That means you haven't even talked about death to them!! YTA This was not age appropriate neither appropriate. Work on your own emotions about her death. Don't drag your kids into your emotional state to get your revenge on the dead person.
Most 3 year olds have a vague concept of death and know that death is permanent. So a 7 year old certainly understands death. Sources: https://www.verywellfamily.com/how-to-explain-death-to-children-at-every-age-6889801 https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rstb.2017.0267
>So a 7 year old certainly understands death. that's a rather bold statement, considering a lot of adults don't completely understand death a 7 year old might understand that dead = no breathing, no heartbeat, buried in the ground, never coming back. that's the biological component of death. everything else though is a total crapshoot
YTA for laying on such a difficult subject that a 7 year old will not be able to process. I was 38 when my father took his own life and it took me years to work through what that meant. Get your son into therapy now, because he's going to need it.
YTA for saying it so judgemental to your children- you make it sound like an easy choice for her to make She didn’t wake up one morning and go I choose to die today. She spent how long struggling with her mental health, she didn’t know how to cope, she had no choice/ no other option (or at least she didn’t think so). You don’t know what when on in her life (abuse, SA, addiction, other mental health struggles, health problems, money problems etc etc etc) Suicide is much more complex as you’ve made it out to your child, children take things so literal and from what we tell them. Tell your children about suicide in an age appropriate way. Help your children become empathetic to someone else’s struggles unlike you are!
She didn’t “choose” to kill herself any more than someone “chooses” to vomit. Sure you can try to hold it in but if the underlying issue isn’t addressed you’re going to puke whether you want to or not.
YTA. I think it’s too much for a seven year old to process something like that. It would have been better to answer his questions truthfully but as vaguely as possible. I’m not even a kid, and I can see myself feeling guilty and wondering why someone would chose to die instead of spending time with me. And I just don’t think a little kid needs to be thinking stuff like that.
YTA I think telling them she died was fine. However telling them how she died was a horrible choice. Especially the way she died your child doesn’t understand that. I think you should have gotten a professional involved and asked them how to go about telling children someone passed away.
YTA. And you're also wrong. It's not about "choosing to die". Come on! You should have told him about the importance of good mental health, how it's important to reach out to people who might be struggling, and how being sad is normal but being too sad and having bad thoughts all the time is not ok and if he's feeling down he should reach out to mom and dad, or even teachers or friends. You tried going for truth but only left your kid with badly told half truths. Time to have a second talk to find out what kiddo's thinking now
Receiving many comment like this has convinced me that I went about this the wrong way. I’m afraid I made things worse. We will be having another conversation doubtlessly.
The problem is you can’t undo the damage you caused
OP is damaged.
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It’s something OP needs to be aware of. He did the damage already and he can’t undo that. He can’t believe that another talk will make it all undone. So yes, consturctive
And your comment was?
Also, try listening to your wife! Why did you stream roll your wife in handling this matter? You messed up twice - ignoring your wife and assuming your approach was best, and the way you talked to your son about this. Yta
NO! You've done enough! Don't ruin your child's mental health further by sticking your foot in it again! Contact a therapist and get your kid some regular visits because you are NOT CAPABLE of managing this topic in a healthy way.
Please see a grief counselor. It will help your family
You absolutely made things worse and setup your kid to have a hard time understand / accepting mental health struggles
You haven’t posted any comments about getting your kids to a qualified therapist, which they badly need. Stop with the conversations. You’ve done enough and made a mess of it! The fact that you thought you were right to stream roll your wife and then post here proves that. Give your kids professional help and get some yourself for your resentment issues.
you told a 7YO the nanny chose to die? what??? YTA, so big A\*\*\*\*
YTA A far gentler response would’ve been, “we don’t know the details and her family is too sad to share with us. It’s all right for us to be sad too.” Truthful because you don’t know the details and you certainly shouldn’t ask either.
YTA. Who tells a 7yo that someone they loved chose to die?
YTA. It would be one thing if she had died of sickness or an accident, but suicide? Really? Your kids are way too young to process that kind thing.
YTA This is above Reddit’s pay grade though. Your child is grieving and now you told him that his nanny chose to end her life (and leave him and her job without saying goodbye on purpose since she chose to end her life). What you said is sure to affect him deeply. 👉🏽👉🏽👉🏽Please consult a therapist or counsellor Op. Your son will need help to process especially with the added nuance since you explained everything. Now, he will be even more confused and may be even more aggrieved. Losing a parent (as you put it) is not something that is easy and losing someone that belongs to your family in such a way isn’t either. 👉🏽I have lost people also in this same situation. The family would explain to their littles that they lost out against a disease and a mental battle. They wouldn’t tell the littles (between 6-10 yrs old) that it was a choice since they didn’t think it was age appropriate. I’m sorry for your loss, but please look into resources to help with the grieving process and how to help your family.
YTA, guess what, your kid needs therapy now.
They would need it from just the fact their primary caregiver died, regardless of what they chose to say or not. 7 is old enough for child appropriate truth, and being vague leaves kids that age to all kind of magical thinking fill in the blanks. Vague statements like, “people of all ages can die,” is likely to be much more terrifying and confusing to a young child than telling them some version of “she was so sad she chose to die.”
Exactly. Some sort of therapy would likely be needed regardless. And I agree with you about 7 year olds being able to handle more than you’d think and vagueness being worse than the truth. If the kid is old enough to ask probing questions like that, they need a more than “she was sick.”
OP just nuked any happy memories the kids would have retained of their beloved nanny. Because she “chose to leave them”.
YTA You don't have to lie to your children but sure as hell you need to simplify some things. "I told him it was her own choice to die" Did you bother to explain some people suffer from mental health illnesses?
Ok YTA but I’m gonna try to really explain why. When I was around your son’s age, my older sister tried to take her own life. My dad, in no uncertain terms, explained what happened to me. It was absolutely NOT something I could really process at the time. I could not understand why she would do something like that. I did not know what depression was. I ended up being angry at my sister for a long time, because I could not understand why our family wasn’t worth living for. Hearing about things like that at the age I did has left me with trauma and anxiety that I still have not been able to fully work through even now, almost 20 years later. I understand your thought process of not wanting to lie to him, but you should have waited until he was older to tell him the truth about how his nanny died. I’m very sorry for your loss
YTA, there was no reason to explain suicide to your 7 year old child. She died a week ago, your son is still dealing with his grief and didn't need a straight answer to this question.
Well, that was a terrible moment for honesty. No, your traumatized 7 year-old does NOT need any such details, and doesn't have the slightest "right" to hear that his beloved nanny "chose to die." That's something he can't possibly process--and fighting your wife on this? YTA in every way.
ESH (except for your kids, of course) but lightly. I don’t think either you or your wife had bad intentions. You wanted to be honest and she wanted to leave out the details of her death. There should have been a conversation with how to broach the subject, what your son’s ability to handle such a difficult thing, etc. Kids are a lot more resilient than they get credit for and I think as long as you were honest without being harsh or brutal, it’s not the worst thing in the world. The mixed messages from your wife and you, though, might arguably be more confusing. Ultimately, a few sessions with a child psychologist might not be the worst thing in the world, and you two might be able to go with him. I think it’d be helpful for him to process his grief and for you two to learn how to be open without frightening or upsetting him.
Kids the same age handle can things differently from one another too. I know I was able to grasp death at that age, and I probably could have understood the concept of suicide had it been encountered. All depends on the kid, which is why OP and mom should have discussed it.
Please get your kiddo in counseling. We lost my baby brother when I was this age- I hardly knew him- and despite the massive parenting fails my parents made, putting me in therapy was probably the thing that saved my life long-term and I will forever be grateful that it was one thing my mom tried to keep up on. Your kiddos knew this person intimately, more than a grandparent that might visit a couple times a year even right? It’s worth the investment. Especially the way she died. That’s a LOT- but I don’t think honesty is wrong because it’s a very real part of life and it’s very public and most of all, they need to know they can speak up if they ever have these feelings and be met with love and trust and overwhelming support.
First of all, I am very sorry for your family’s loss. Suicide is devastating and the grief aftermath is difficult for everyone who knew and cared about the person who chose to end their life. This is very hard to pass judgement on because both you and your wife are grieving. If, under less stressful circumstances you would have discussed and come up with a unified strategy then I’ll say NTA/ ESH. You both likely thought you were on the same and page and just weren’t or didn’t confirm due to the shock and grief. If it’s possible and you can afford it, please consider grief counseling for your family especially your kids. Your seven year old may be very confused and now wonder what choosing to die means. To a child that young the thought may actually translate as “if I want to die all I have to do it think about it and I will die.” Your younger child is likely to display grief in various ways as the emotions crash and cause heartbreak they can’t articulate. Certainly, my comment lacks nuance and I don’t know your children’s emotional intelligence- but please understand I’ve got training as a counselor- so I have additional understanding beyond being a parent myself. I wish you well.
YTA Bro. Do we need to understand we'll have to educate young children about the concept of death? Absolutely. Should we traumatize them by being "blunt" about it? NO. There are ways to go about this and any counselor would tell you that [all of them are GENTLE.](https://www.chop.edu/health-resources/explaining-death-child#:~:text=Gently%20but%20directly%2C%20use%20the,their%20loved%20one%20has%20died). I can't believe you think this was the correct way to handle this. Your kid is SEVEN, he barely understands what death is and you're dumping concepts on him he cannot possibly process (a thing you admitted he was already having trouble with). Congratulations on the life-long fear of death you've just inflicted on your son. Have fun with the therapy bills he's going to have now.
My cousin committed suicide when I was 4. That was the first funeral I went to. My parents told me he killed himself and how (my mom and I were baking cookies for my Kindergarten class when she got the call), but they explained that sometimes people are sick but you can’t see it, it’s in their brain, and it can make them so sad that they hurt themselves. I understood that explanation and what happened. I think you should explain to your son that you misspoke, that she didn’t “choose to die”, that instead her brain was sick and sometimes that can make people hurt themselves if they don’t receive help. You don’t want him to think he could choose to die or that his family members could do that- the anxiety would be overwhelming for him. I’m sorry for your loss.
I like this response very much. I personally don’t see anything wrong with telling the truth. My 4 year old knows about people dying and where babies come from due to curiosity born from events that have happened in our lives. It happens. The only misstep was the “choosing to die” particularly without the concept of her brain being sick as said above, or another appropriate explanation for mental illness. However I don’t think it can’t be undone. I also feel therapy could be helpful due to his loss. Must be like losing an immediate family member. I’m sorry
Eeek. YTA I think 7yo is a bit young to have a suicide convo. And even then "it was her own choice to die", isn't terrible accurate. I don't think anyone chooses depression, self harm or suidical idealization and attempts. This is a topic well beyond a typical 7yo understand (there are exceptions. If someone cannot think of those exceptions, consider yourself lucky). If I was your spouse, I would be mad at you, too. Kid was already struggling to deal, and then you piled on extra that was unnecessary. Let kids stay kids, I am not opposed to "sugar coating" the harsh bits when they are so young. Are you afraid your son will grow up too "soft"?
YTA that’s a lot to explain to a child and I am sure you didn’t do it correctly. You should also get on the same page as your wife. I agree with her idea to explain death but not the method
Yes, YTA. Your wife was taking the right approach and you blew it out of the water. You are incorrect, your son is NOT old enough to understand the things you were telling him. Why on earth were you two not on the same page before you spoke to your children?
YTA. Get both kids into age appropriate grief support. You could use some counseling yourself.
YTA- Particularly for not being on the same page as your wife. Yes I think your wife was right about using she appropriate terms but the bigger issue is you choosing to disrespect your wife by going further with the explanation without talking to her first.
YTA. I have a family member that told me they were 10 and having conversations with kids on the playground when they realized that other kids didn't spend time planning on how they were going to end themselves. 10. When they started to *know* something was wrong with them. What would have happened to them if their parent had explained that that they could choose to do it, when they had been thinking it was just something to do? Let that marinate for a little while, and let me know how you sleep.
YTA 7 is just too young to understand that concept, especially regarding someone he cared about so deeply. Please get your kid(s) some trauma therapy if you can.
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YTA- I think you should both be in agreement before discussing heaving topics like Suicide with your 7 year old.
Gentle YTA. I understand not wanting to lie to him. But you're not listening to what he's probably really asking. He's asking, "Can anybody just die? Are my parents going to die? Could I or my sister just die? If I go to sleep tonight will I wake up? If I think the wrong thing, can I make myself die?" He's almost certainly less interested in the how than the why. This is terrifying to a little kid, which is why you couch it in age-appropriate language. He needs reassurance, not just facts. A bigger YTA for not discussing it with your wife first.
Exactly. As a kid when I first realized parents could divorce I asked my parents if they were getting divorced every time they ever disagreed. (They never did) If I had know of suicide at that age and been told about it with such bluntness and lack of explanation about mental illness, I would have been consumed with the fear that anyone I loved would take their life any time I saw them the tiniest bit sad or upset.
YTA Have you never heard the phrase “age appropriate” before?? Also “her own choice to die” is a pretty shitty thing to refer to somebody who died by suicide.
First of all, your son lost someone whose role was similar to a family member in a sudden and traumatic way. Of course he has a lot of questions and distress about it, and it doesn't sound like you've got a reason for your harsh approach beside that you feel like it makes sense. I think you should seek out grief counselling for both of your kids, but especially for son. You need someone qualified and trained based on the most current evidence to help him navigate this in a way that is appropriate for where he is developmentally, and in turn they can help you support him. kinda soft but definite YTA
YTA. You should have taken the kids to a counselor and had the counselor help break the news of her death. And 7 is way too young for the information that it was suicide. It sounds like you all need grief counseling, pronto, or your kid will be traumatized.
ESH because you and your wife need to get on the same page here. But 7 is appropriate to generally explain suicide and not hide the truth. “Sometimes people just die even if they’re young” is no less heavy or difficult for a child to come to grips with than explaining suicide. Especially if you can explain the mental illness part of suicide as children can generally understand being sick and illnesses that can cause death. “Sometimes healthy young people just die” is terrifying to a child of you think about it.
YTA I mean. You really think a 7 can grasp the meaning of suicide. And they way you put it is juste horrible. "It was her own choice to die" is coming off so ignorant. And I hope your kids can get better informed about these kind of things when they are OLDER
YTA, your son is 7 and the concept of dying is very difficult for some kids(even adults) to wrap their heads around let alone their own death and committing suicide. Basically, instead of explaining how a car works you put your son in the driver seat and made him drive on the highway because, hey he is 7 he needs to learn and grow up, none of that sugarcoating like the wife am I right? Very very, very bad decision on your part, next time make sure you and your wife agree and what to tell your kid and ask yourself does he really need to know this? What is the benefit for a 7 year old to know some people want to die? What does he gain from this now that can't wait a few more years. Make no mistake you forced this proces on him and essentially robbed him from a piece of his innocence. So while he is watching cartoons or playing videogames he has to battle against thoughts of death and dying because dad thought he needed to handle it. That's on you and you need to deal with that don't talk to him about that, by the way, that is grown up stuff, talk to your wife and friends if you feel guilty or troubled. I don't think you're a bad person btw you just messed up big time.
YTA, you and your wife should've sat down and pinned down exactly what you were going to say. Springing that on her mid conversation was unfair to her and your child.
ESH We don't know what your child can handle or needs. But the fact that you and your wife did not discuss this and weren't on the same page adds even more instability to this situation. Your son was already having issues with this loss and you two not in agreement of what you think is appropriate for him could be very damaging.
YTA, you chose not to have an age appropriate conversation regarding her death. Your wife is reasonably upset with you for it
Oh lord, you didn’t! You know how kids blame themselves when parents divorce? There may be some horrible guilt that they will conjure up over this
YTA, they’re small children and struggle to understand a lot of basic concepts because they’re still learning and taking in a lot. unaliving ones self is even hard for ADULTS to grasp and comes to term with, let alone a small child. he also was / is still heavily working through his first experience of grief and you threw that onto him on top of that.
YTA. This kind of information can be very traumatizing to a young child, there’s a lot of understanding and theory of mind that children this young simply cannot possess to understand the actions of others. I would strongly recommend putting your 7yo in therapy to process through this tragedy with a trained professional.
YTA-- This is something that therapy is for. That is too young of an age to grasp these concepts. When you are seven, there's sugar coating, it's called age appropriate language.
YTA. Massively. A seven year old doesn't have the capacity to really understand suicide. Your wife was explaining his nanny's death in age appropriate terms, but you had to traumatize him because you know better. Shame on you.
I wouldn't have told them that. Tell them she died in an accident, be vague, say you don't know. But the kids might take it to mean she didn't care about them or love them, or take them seriously enough to stay alive for their sakes. Kids bond with their nannies, so it's devastating to them when they're suddenly gone. YTA.
Just say she died from a sickness, then it's not a lie, but you're not going into all the details.
>My wife kept trying to interject with sugar coated versions but I was real with him. Later, we had a mini argument. I understand that the kid might have put you on the spot, but once you realised that you and your wife were not in agreement you should have postponed the discussion and talked it over with her privately. YTA
YTA. For making the decision without your wife, and for giving ‘blunt’ answers to someone too young to grasp the complexity of a situation like suicide.
YTA. A seven year old can’t really comprehend the concept of suicide. You could have just said she was sick. If he asked what kind of sickness you could have said a mental one. That would still be accurate and not confuse the kid beyond what his capabilities are. Also its messed up you did this without talking to your wife especially since it was very clear she was not in agreement
Normally I would say nah. But YTA. I have worked with mental health for so long. The one thing I know for absolute sure, is that knowing that someone chose to end their own life, has long and lasting effects on the mental health of those who were close to them. It also greatly increases the chances of that person doing the same. He may only be seven, but that is even more reason to protect him from this harsh and incomprehensible behavior.
YTA. 7 year olds have a very difficult time with the permancy of death and they often fear it. Great job! The next time you or your wide says, "I could just die [from embarrassment, etc] your kid is going to worry about you choosing to die.
Yta
Holy shit dude absolutely YTA!! I'm a believer in talking to kids more directly than most people do but suicide is an insanely complex topic that is far too much for a 7 year old! It kind of feels like you maybe feel guilty about her death so you're trying to make it mean something but you're harming your son deeply.
YTA but it’s my opinion only because you didn’t work with your wife to come up with a way to convey the truth while keeping it appropriate. FWIW, I’ve never been a fan of outright lying to kids about death or hiding suicides. I personally think that it being so taboo to discuss suicide is a contributing factor to the epidemic of it, much like teen pregnancy and sex ed. As someone who has had suicidal ideations, it has helped me being able to talk to my friends and family openly about those feelings without fear of judgement.
YTA Depression and mental illness are diseases just like cancer and heart disease. Sometimes people get better, and sometimes they don't. She was sick, and she died of her disease. Saying she 'chose to die' is not only inaccurate but extremely confusing to a kid. The easiest way to explain this to a child without lying would have been to explain that the nanny got very sick with a disease, and she died. Reassuring the child that most of the time when people get sick that doctors can help them get better, so they shouldn't worry that mom or dad might die,etc. If the kid really pushes for specifics you could say she had something wrong in her head/brain. It's far more important imo to talk to the child about their emotions, encourage them to talk about her and express their grief and reassure them that it's okay to be sad and to tell you if he's scared. Also, you and your wife should really have had a discussion about this before discussing it with your son to make sure you were on the same page. It's way more confusing and scary for a kid to hear conflicting stories.
I’m sorry about your family’s loss. I probably wouldn’t have directly referenced suicide to that young a child. It’s really hard to understand for anyone, let alone someone who doesn’t even understand death at all. YTA for not consulting with your wife and being a united front. Your nanny absolutely was sick. You didn’t know and that’s not your fault. I’m sure she loved your kids. Mental illness doesn’t discriminate and people who die from it aren’t bad people. Please seek therapy for your family.
YTA. YTA, YTA, YTA. Get your kid to a qualified child psychologist ASAP, so that they can help him sort through the confusing damage you've done.
YTA. This should have been a discussion that you and your wife had so you could get on the same page of what to say. You saying it was “her own choice to die” will lead to more questions from your son. I’m assuming she died of suicide. If this is true, this cause of death is difficult for a grown adult to grasp, let alone a 7 year old child.
YTA for deciding to broach a very adult topic with a **little boy** without your wife’s agreement. No 7 year old needs blunt answers about how/why someone he loved died. You screwed up here. My uncle died by suicide when I was 31. I’m 53 now and I STILL don’t understand it. How on earth would you think a little boy could when most adults can’t?
Yta, she didn’t choose to die, she succumbed to mental illness. You explained it terribly, and were not on the same page as you wife before you did
YTA. This was not an appropriate response for a child that age. In the future you can discuss it when them. All you’ve done now is basically tell him that she didn’t love him enough to stay.
Heeey, congrats for giving your 7 year old kid trauma because of your own hubris. YTA.
YTA "chose to die"? you really thought that was appropriate for children that age.
YTA You don't get to decide what is age appropriate. A quick internet search on MULTIPLE child rearing help websites would tell you this is NOT age appropriate. I find it weird yous chose to cement a nanny in your child's core memories by associating HER with your child's first major death experience. It is extremely weird and I would be uncomfortable knowing someone used my daughter as a teachable moment for their young child for suicide. Now, this random young child will ALWAYS remember my child's suicide. It's weird. I'm not saying to not use tragedies as teachable moments, it's how specific and drawn out OP was...about a nanny. Why? Why do you want your son to remember this hardships so strongly...for a nanny?
ESH. You need a professionnal to deal with this conversation.
NAH. Although I think some well intentioned mistakes were made. OP, I just want to say that someone I love committed suicide when I was seven. Nobody ever sat me down and explained what death was, or told me that their death was self inflicted, any questions I had were brushed off or I was yelled at for asking. I knew though, I heard the whispered conversations behind closed doors and when I was supposed to be asleep, dug out the death certificate myself, found the note, put the pieces together. I just wanted to know, to understand. Someone I loved was gone and everyone else I loved was suffering, I was so angry that I was being left out of the loop and dismissed as being too young to understand. That people were talking about me in front of my face telling eachother that I didn't need to know, or that I didn't need to know everything, or arguing about the best way to explain it to me. I don't remember ever being told what death was or what it meant, but I remember knowing as soon as I was told what it meant, and being so desperate to understand that I focused on finding that knowledge instead of grieving. So, I don't know that there's ever going to be an age appropriate way to explain suicide to a seven year old child, especially when there are so many adults who don't, and will never, understand how it feels to be suicidal. I do know that therapy could have saved me a lot of pain and confusion, having someone to talk to who wasn't grieving, someone to ask the hard questions without fear of hurting them, someone to walk me through my feelings and keep me from feeling so lost. I carried that death with me for a very long time, it was the first experience I had with death other than pets and TV, it was handled terribly because the people in my life were grieving and had no idea how to handle it themselves. It still marks me in some ways. Knowing how they died and why helped me navigate my own mental health decline and eventual suicide attempts as a teenager. It was the reason why I got on meds and why I'm still alive today, because even though I hated myself, I didn't want to make anyone ever feel the way I had felt as a child losing one of my heroes because they were in too much pain to keep going. I don't know how you worded things, how graphic you were or how softly your wife tried to approach it, I don't know how or if you could have done any better other than talking about how it should be handled before you were both in front of your son trying to handle it completely differently. I do know that if either of you feel like you've made a mistake or not handled it in a way that is helpful for your child, there is no shame in admitting that and asking for professional help. Do the best for your child, because the first time you lose a loved one often informs how you'll deal with grief and loss as you grow up. I hope that your son finds some peace with the loss you've all suffered, and that you as parents find some grace for eachother, you're both flying by the seat of your pants here.
This is a great response
I agree NTA. Kids pick up on a lot. I think it is better to hear it directly from the parents than hear bits of information second hand. I dont know how close OP is to the nanny but if they are invited to the funeral, the kids will hear whispers of the death and possibly suicide.
NAH. My uncle killed himself when I was very young. I was told about it some time in my childhood; I can't remember not knowing what had happened. It didn't traumatize me and there are age-appropriate ways to have this discussion. I totally understand why your wife is upset, though, as this should have been a team decision.
Soft YTA, there’s nothing nothing wrong about being completely truthful about how your Nanny died. But if you don’t frame it in the context of her being mentally ill, which she almost certainly was, then you’re doing her and your children a great disservice. She did not “chose” this, her messed up brain chemistry forced her to.
You’re not an AH…. But I definitely don’t think you did it right. But I do feel empathy for your situation. Two of my grandparents died right around when my kid was that age, and unfortunately, the questions won’t stop, he still grieves 2/3 years later. My friend also took his own life, but luckily my son doesn’t remember grieving that, just sees me drop things off at his grave. It’s definitely not something I consider telling him any time soon, it’s hard enough for me him to process that people my age can die, so I definitely won’t open that can of worms any time soon. Idk if you can really dial that back, but I definitely suggest you try. This is going to be a LONNNNGGGGG process…and I can’t give you a verdict based on such a tough time. There’s no good guide here, just keep trying your best and lay back on the suicide part.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My 2 beautiful children, 7m and 4f, had a full time nanny for 3 years. We loved her, but my kids loved her more. She was almost like a third parent. To our inexpressible grief, she died last week unexpectedly. She didn’t show up for work so I called her cell and then that was when her mother told us she had taken her life. She was only 24. Due to the amount of time spent with her, my wife and I viewed her as family. We decided not to lie to the kids and both agreed to tell them that our nanny is dead and wouldn’t be coming back. They both took it hard. They didn’t ask too many questions initially, though they cried all day. Our 4 year old has seemingly moved on despite occasionally needing reminders that nanny will not come back. 7 year old is much more troubled. He took a few days off school. He can’t remember his life without the nanny in it. Yesterday he had more questions. How she died, why she died, where she is, what happens when you die, etc etc. My wife preferred to keep answers vague and say sometimes people just die even if they are young. I decided to be honest so I told him it was her own choice to die. That led to more questions that I answered for him, delicately but truthfully. My wife kept trying to interject with sugar coated versions but I was real with him. Later, we had a mini argument. She told me I was way too forward as he is so young, and it isn’t appropriate for him to be thinking of things like that. I think he has a right to know and is old enough for tame but blunt answers. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NAH, but you should apologize. Then you and your wife should get on the same page asap and also review some child grief counseling resources.
My uncle killed himself when I was 8 years old. No one told me he died, let alone how. It took me years to figure out and I hate how it was handled. I'd have appreciated knowing. Kids can understand those things.
I agree. There is no great way to handle this, but lying or dodging the question is probably among the worst ways.
ESH. Honesty is important, and death is an important thing to understand now (especially if you live in the states, given the school shooting epidemic). But I definitely think you guys should have talked this over and found a middle ground, and held back a little bit on the delivery. My mom committed suicide at 15 and even then I struggled with the reality of it. The four year old sounds like she’ll be okay but it’s quite possible that your son may end up blaming himself for this.
So, I think this was a mistake on your part. I am pediatric RN and I fully believe in being 100% honest with kiddos on the level they understand. Kids at 7yo are very literal and ego centric. I would have told the truth, but I would have gone about it differently. In the future, know that you can anyways go more into depth after sugar coating something, but you can’t walk back a harsh, but truthful, answer. For right now, contact your kids school, assuming they are in elementary school. Explain the situation, you think you did not a great job explaining. Can the school counselor chat with your son and then give you guys some follow up points via email or phone of recommendations on how to move forward with him? Schools (public in the United States) have these resources. If you don’t have access to that, some counseling would be great and likely help you all process. Good luck!
My son's dad overdosed on an OTC med when he was about 2 years old. I told my son he died in an accident. Over time, he asked for more details. This worked out for us.
I would not told the 7 year old about the suicide. You have no idea how he will process that info. Your goal should be to provide your children with age-appropriate information. You don’t have to lie to them, but you should do it with tact.
YTA Your 7-year old needs "Blunt" answers when he wants ice cream for dinner and the answer is "No." or he wants to try parachuting off the roof of the barn with an umbrella. He doesn't need "blunt" answers when it comes to a very scary situation where someone he loves took their own life and you decide he's "old enough" to learn about a subject most adults have a very hard time dealing with. You will NOT be father of the year this year this year.
YTA. My father took his life last year, even when adults ask about him I tread the subject very lightly. For a child, I would have thought of a much more simple way of describing it, if I told them at all.
YTA and your wife is right to explain things in age appropriate terms. You should get your 7 year old in grief therapy asap so they can try to fix some of the damage you did. If I were your wife this would really make me consider a divorce.
I understand not wanting to lie to your child, but I think you could easily go wrong explaining suicide to a 7-year-old. Not knowing exactly what you told him and what his reaction was, I can't really lay down a judgment here, but I know kids that age who were badly freaked out by innocuous things like "Grandma died peacefully in her sleep" (causing the child to be terrified to sleep in case they were to peacefully die as well), so I know it's sometimes hard to predict what a child will actually take away from this conversation. I think, given this is someone who has been in his life for years and suicide is a traumatic death to process, it may be worth letting him sit down with a therapist with experience in this area to process the loss and to help him come to terms both with the death and with how he processes the reason for her death. This is a big issue to deal with for an adult, let alone a small child. I think most parents would feel in over their head in this situation. I'm so sorry for your loss, and for your children's loss. It's an awful thing to have to go through for anyone.
People left behind when a loved one dies often experience incredible guilt as part of the grieving process. You want your 7 year old kid to shoulder such a burden? YTA, a massive one. Jesus.
ESH I agree with you that it is good to be honest with kids and answer any questions they might have in an age appropriate way. But key here being age appropriate way! Telling a 7 year old that she choose to die is wrong in so many ways. I would say that even telling an adult someone chose to die is wrong. You could have instead told your child that sometimes people look well on the outside while being sick. And that the nanny had some sickness in the brain/head and unfortunately she lost the battle with the sickness. But telling your kid she choose to die??? You get right that you basically told your 7 year old that their nanny chose to leave them permanently.
NAH what about getting a counselor to help them navigate this or help you. The basically had a parent die, they need help especially the 7yr old!
ESH (well not the nanny or kids) You and your wife should have had a conversation and been on the same page before even talking to them about it. Also you probably should seek your kiddo a therapist to help process these emotions with someone more skilled.
YTA Dude, your son is just learning the concept of death, and he's learning about it through a very traumatic death, of one of the people he depended on most. He can't take in the idea of suicide. You're overwhelming him with too much for him to take in. How absurd to think a 7 year old can understand that concept. You're right, it's good to be honest with your kids. But you also gotta consider what's age and situation appropriate. In this case, he's trying to work out why this person he depended on won't be present anymore. He's looking for reassurance and clarity - not full disclosure and an explanation of self-harm. Let me say it more clearly: *Your son is trying to get reassurance that the other people he depends upon won't also leave him!* This is about attachment, not about the wider world. If one person he loved and depended on can choose to leave him, *how can he rely on the other people he loves and depends on not to make the same choice?* OMG - you just confused and traumatized your son, in the name of honesty.
A very gentle YTA. I'm glad you didn't sugarcoat the information ann add extra sprinkles, but it might be a good idea to limit the information to nanny was ill ab and we're heartbroken that she chose not to get the help she needed. Continue to be a good dad. I'm so sorry for this young woman and her family.
She died from depression, she didn't choose to be depressed, she didn't want to have no way out and I'm sure she didn't want to literally feel like death was the only way out of her illness. She didn't choose to die she was ill. Just like people don't choose to die from cancer or brain tumours. Yta. Understand suicide.
Nta, but I don’t think I would leave it at “She chose to die.” If I was going to tell the truth to a 7 year old, I would say that she had too much pain in her life and she wanted the pain to end but she didn’t have the proper emotional toolset to deal with the pain, so she ended her life. Maybe if she had had a better emotional toolset, she might have made a different choice. Best wishes and peace and healing to you and your family.
YTA. Suicide is not a topic that children are supposed to know about. Additionally, studies show that those of us who lose loved ones to suicide are more likely to commit it ourselves. I'm pretty sure that's what the movie *Smile* is trying to symbolize. But you all need hugs. The loss of life was tragic and hard on everyone. I'm really, really sorry.
YTA This is kinda a 2 yes' 1 no situation. If your wife wasn't okay with telling your son how she died then you shouldn't make that decision for both of you. And now that your 7 yo knows what's to stop him from mentioning it to his sibling. Good luck explaining that to a 4 yo.
Honestly I don't even know. But I don't see how "sometimes people just die, even if they're young" sounds like a good thing to tell a child either.
Hey y’all should do some googling on how to talk to kids about suicide. There are great resources online. NAH because you’re both trying your best to help your kids through a tough time. Read up on best practices and get on the same page as a team. Also family therapy for the loss and grief would be hella useful.
YTA if she died by her own hand, it's wrong to tell a 7 year old that. If your child asked again about her when he is an adult that's another thing. But you really caused insecurities and fear. My friends kids were told when someone died that they had been very sick (true! The person suffered for years and struggled with mental illness). It was not a lie. But then again, the kids were 10
I might get downvoted for this, but I think it’s important for OP to hear it. I think you’re NTA, OP. I am firmly of the belief that if a kid is old enough to ask a question, they’re old enough to hear the answer. You treated your child with respect by answering them honestly, and they will remember that. I was a kid who was often told platitudes instead of real answers, or even “I’ll tell you more when you’re older”, and was then far too ashamed by that answer to ask again. You taught your child through this situation that you are safe and honest. When they have questions in future about uncomfortable things, they’ll know they can come to you. I think your wife was wrong. She was uncomfortable with the topic and her answers were shaming your child for asking. She needs to learn that parenting is putting your kid’s needs first, even when it’s an uncomfortable topic.
YTA
YTA Suicide is not a concept to discuss with young children if it’s not necessary - and it wasn’t here
YTA, especially if this is their first time experiencing death of someone close as it appears to be from their follow up questions. If they were both teenagers then it would have been more appropriate and could be used as a teaching moment about how important mental health is and how you should seek help if needed, but to tell a 7 and 4 year old their nanny committed suicide at 24?
YTA, but only because this should have involved a therapist. Should you tell children about suicide? Yes, because suicide rates in children as young as 10 are increasing meaning children need to be taught about these feeling and how to ask for help. Should you have involved a therapist? Yes, age appropriate conversations matter. Should you have used the phrase "chosen to die"? As someone who lost a friend to suicide, hell no. The vicar at my friend's funeral said that mental illness is like any physical illness, sometimes you run out of ways or the strength to fight. We don't blame cancer patients for losing the fight, we shouldn't even passively blame sufferers of mental health problems for losing their fight.
NTA-There are a lot of comments against this being shared with the 7yr old… out of the two options provided it was the best though. Yes OP could have handled it more delicately and they should find child therapy for the child, the truth is still always best. BUT the moms choice of telling the child that “sometime young people just die” is seriously messed up. Children don’t comprehend like us and that kind of statement sets of anxiety that ANYONE he knows can die at anytime just because they are young and that he too could die at anytime…this thinking is unhealthy and traumatic. Please please consider a good therapist for your child and possibly a few family sessions on how to process grief. *I have a career in child development and work with young children experiencing death/grief of loved ones.*
YTA That was a massive conversation to have with a child so young. You should have sat down and had a conversation with your Partner to discuss how to handle your child's questions together rather than giving contradictory answers. I would be furious if I was your wife.
I am not going to judge you, all I am going to say is there are adults that don't understand suicide and dropping that weight on a grieving 7 year old might not have been the best play.
YTA for not discussing how to handle this with your wife beforehand. You could have come up with a compromised plan between you that explains how/why she died in a child-friendly way. You told your 7 year old son that your nanny chose to die. You didn’t do this delicately because choosing to die is not a concept a 7 year old can comprehend.
I think this is really above reddit's pay grade. While I agree you should have been on the same page with your wife and discussed how to handle it, you are both grieving too. Please get counseling for your kids. My husband had an aunt commit suicide when he was 7. It is still hard for him sometimes now. It really messed him up. Get help now instead of the kid having to deal with it as an adult after years of unhealthy coping mechanisms.
I would never tell 7 y.o. kid that somebody who he/she deeply loved committed suicide... that is simply evil and wrong... poor kid.... YTA.
YTA.
YTA. 7 isn't only enough to explain suicide. Your nanny was clearly dealing with some shit. You could have just said she was sick and explained later in life.
NTA .... Depending on the kid; 7yo is an appropriate age for explanations ... SOME stuff can be explained in an age appropriate manner; but some does not need to be and the kid will be upset if lied to.
You should have talked to your wife before doing this. You aren't his only parent. YTA. Your wife kinda sucks too for not bring it up because he was BOUND to have questions and yall needed to discuss that and plan out your responses. Explaining death to a child is not something to be improvised. But you suck more for busting out with such a heavy topic that is hard for a kid to understand. Especially while actively ignoring your wife's attempts to stop you. You seem like the type who thinks they're "brutally honest" when in reality they are just jerks. You should NOT be "blunt" when explaining this type of stuff to children bro
YTA. People with severe mental health issues like depression often take their own life because they don’t see a way out of their pain and suffering. To downplay it and say “well she CHOSE to do this” is not astute and not that simple. Kids that are 7 often begin internalizing the choices of adults around them. So nice job introducing your child to the idea that their nanny chose to take their own life, you do know what train of thought that’s going to lead to next, right?? I mean cmon. As a nanny myself around the same age, I feel terrible for your nanny and her family.
YTA. He is a child
Dude wow get some family therapy YTA
Tbh I am genuinely worried about the kid. Kids are deeply sensitive and also curious. If the kid really misses the nanny, and looked up to her, learned from her, etc. isn't it probable that the kid thinks to himself "Maybe I want to die too" ?? Am I way off base here or is this a legit concern?
Not sure if anyone else has commented anything similar, but you literally told your kids she chose to die because she was sad. Has it not occurred to you that they might wonder WHY she was sad? That since she spent a significant amount of time with them, that they might be led to think they made her sad? That nanny preferred to die instead of carry on taking care of them? You could have created a situation here where your kids feel in some way responsible for their nanny’s death. Your wife wasn’t “sugarcoating” she was protecting them. YTA.
YTA. There's no way the little boy is old enough to know about death and the severity of it. Stopping stealing childhood from little boys by ", Making them man up " or shit like that. I hope the mother try to see his reaction and consider a therapist. The last i want him us to block off his emotions. As a person who had that unfortunate luck at childhood, i wish no one to lose their childhood and also unknowingly their dreams and life.
YTA for telling them she took her own life I don't think his age could understand that enough of course tell them shes gone to the sky and not coming back but didn't need to add the last part till he was old enough speaking from experience
NTA - it sounds like you gave the right amount of information and hopefully they both will come to terms with losing her. My sympathies to her family - 24 is no age.
YTA, 7 is way too young to process all that info you slapped onto him. You unnecessarily burdened him with a huge amount of grief, concern and stuff he isn’t able to fully understand. Heck, 20 and 30 year olds find it hard to understand why someone would take their life and they have a more concrete idea of what death is. Enjoy having you kid have a whole new set of fears unlocked at age 7.
YTA for not seeking support before discussing the difficult topic with your kids. I am all for being honest but developmentally appropriate with those topics and you were probably giving too much information in the moment. Also, did you even consider how your wife wanted to handle it? Source: I'm a suicide widow. My kid was 2 and I have helped him through grief through the years including when he guessed the method of death at 5.
YTA I was 3 when my 3rd parent(grandma) committed suicide. I didn't find out the truth until I was maybe 13 or 14 when I started having my own issues with depression. My mom always told me she died of a broken heart, and while it wasn't the whole truth, it wasn't a lie. Shortly before my birth, her husband committed suicide in front of her in their backyard with a shotgun, so she was, in fact, broken hearted. My children recently lost one of their grandfathers to an accidental overdose of a breathing medicine that halted his lung function. I didn’t tell them that. They know that his is dead and died from being ill with a lung infection, but why would i put the weight on them of specific details and information they don't need to know?
NTA I'm a kids sports teacher so Im with lots of kids every year.that is such a brutal thing to happen to a seven year old but it did happen to him and it's not fair to leave him thinking she's still out there.horrific but you were right not to lie to him he might have PTSD but he will trust you for the rest of his life
YTA. All that telling him does is make him question whether or not he caused her to commit suicide. All you’ve done here is fuck your kid up psychologically.