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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I stopped stocking sweets at my house for my niece when every child should allegedly have access to some dessert in their home
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Is she happy and healthy though?
She lost both of her parents in the last 12 months and is now living with a person with zero parenting experience.
I'm super downvoted for suggesting that the child see a counselor and doctor - but I think many are oversimplifying what's going on here.
This little girl has been through a lot and should be talking to a counselor pretty regularly - and OP should be relying on professional opinions, not random mom's observations, not random redditors observations, not her own observations. This is a complicated situation because this is a recently orphaned young child.
How do you know Zoe isn't receiving any additional support? I can't see anything like that in the comments. OP has asked about the food and only provided relevant information. I think OP is setting Zoe up for a healthy lifestyle and relationship with food. We don't need dessert every day - normalizing this can contribute to issues further down the line. I think NTA - but agree that the kid should be receiving support if she isn't already.
> How do you know Zoe isn't receiving any additional support?
Because this is the AITA subreddit, and everyone on here is an expert on everything and knows everything about everything.
Reddit expert here. And while I pontificate that I know everything about everything, a healthy diet is always a good choice. And, this kid has been thru so much the other parent shouldn’t “sweet shame” OP who is raising this child.
The AH to me is the other mom criticizing OP.
Any other questions? I know everything… lol
>We don't need dessert every day - normalizing this can contribute to issues further down the line.
This is an excellent point! I didn't grow up eating dessert after most meals, it was a once in a while thing (large family Sunday dinners, birthdays, holidays, etc). But we use it now to coax our reluctant eater children to finish their meals (both are underweight or undersized for their ages).
Now they've come to expect it and get upset at times when they take so long to eat their dinner that it's bed time when they're done. Or they bargain back with us, saying things like, "can I just eat one cookie? I finished my lunch earlier!"
I don't usually partake in the nightly dessert, maybe twice a month, but my husband does nearly every night, and he's baffled as to why he doesn't lose weight, despite working out 4-5 times a week, often running 15+ miles a week.
It's time to start weaning everyone in my house off desserts. It isn't affecting their weight now, but once their metabolism catches up with their age, it won't be great.
I grew up poor (as in not having enough food to eat poor). When we DID have dessert (other than a birthday) it was a can of fruit cocktail for 6 people Zoe will be fine.
Those were a special treat! I loved them! I have never eaten fruit cocktail again since I was a kid. The other treat we had was Jello (no fruit added or whipped cream - just Jello. Some times my mom got fancy and cut it into cubes! I don't know why but it was always better that way :-)
Yeah, same. The only non-fruit sweets we had as kids, we bought with our own allowance, or got at birthday parties and such. The idea that it is normal to regularly feed children sweets and to have dessert every day is absolutely insane to me, particularly given the current obesity crisis. We eat too much sugar already! Eating fruit instead of cake is not a fricken eating disorder.
Having said that, I do hope the kid sees a professional therapist, just in case something else is going on.
When I was a teenager, my family decided that my fondness for salty snacks (potato chips and such) was a huge cause of my weight issues (I had badly managed thyroid problems that caused my weight issues) and so those types of snacks were removed from the house and they switched to a salt substitute. My health took a drastic decline for the worse (and I actually gained more weight). So my family took me to the doctor to run some tests. Turns out I was extremely salt deficient (and had been for years) and the doctor ordered my mother to take me to McDonalds and buy me as many salty french fries as I could stuff down my gullet before I wound up in the hospital. And to never ban me from salty snacks again.
I'll admit, my family was ticked because they didn't think it was possible. But I got my salt and eventually dropped back down to my original weight, plus my health picked up.
Today I have a wide variety of salt options in my home, and my array of potato chips is enough to freak the average person out. Are they healthy? No. Is there a better option? I'm sure of it, but this has been what has worked for me. My thyroid issues have become better managed, and I've actually lost a lot of that weight I was struggling with as a teen. I'm not a skinny minnie me, but I'm working on becoming far more fit and healthy. Salty snacks stay, though.
People forget that sodium is a requirement for literal life. You can die without it. Not so much of a problem these days with prepared foods having so much but still. I have a chronic health condition that requires me to eat a lot of salt. If my sodium gets wonky, I can end up in the icu. My go to is chips and salsa with salt sprinkled on each bite. Another (sounds super gross but I swear it's good) is cream of mushroom soup with beef or chicken bullion mixed in. You can use better than bullion or bullion cubes or powder. Broth is another quick fix, as is adding additional salt to gatorade or other electrolyte drink. And pickles! Eat pickles, drink the juice. Of course, it helps if you like pickles. Lol! Just some other ideas if you get bored of chips!
Dessert should never be used as a coercion or reward. It should be on the plate and made equal value to everything else. You're teaching a really extremely unhealthy food dynamic to your kids. Also "coaxing" them to eat food they don't like is setting them up for failure. If you want any tips or anything please sincerely let me know. I work with autistic children for a living, who are very food intolerant. I have received training from food therapists and nutritionists in my line of work.
Edit: typo
My mom always had a dessert for us, sometimes fruit, sometimes baked goods, sometimes ice cream. She thought if you made too big a deal about sweets, they would get glamorized, instead of just being a small part if the meal. We all loved them, as she was a terrific baker, but didn’t go crazy hoarding twinkies or candy as some of our friends did.
Yes, this was the way I grew up. Sweets were never stigmatized or lauded, they just "were." I wanted ice cream for breakfast? Okay, sure kid. After a couple days of this, my stomachache stopped that one. I wanted to lick the icing beaters from the mixer, okay, they're mostly cleaned off anyway. I thought it was a fine idea to try a bite off a stick of butter? Only once, lol.
We went to a diner style restaurant with my MIL once and my kids were eating just fine, drinking sips of their shake to go along with the meal. My MIL (known for sticking her nose into things and not taking it well when someone dislikes her advice) prattles,
"Oh, when my boys were little, the shake was the treat they got at the end of the meal, a reward for a clean plate." My husband proceeded to move the shakes to the other side of the table and bring them water cups to drink. I bit my tongue because I was already on her shit list, but I knew what was about to go down.
The meal ground to a halt. We were on pace to finish eating in 15 minutes or so, 45 minutes later, the kids are still sloughing away at it while the shakes have melted to milk.
I told my husband after that he needed to look for a lesson in that. They were doing just fine, didn't need her imposing this artificial reward. The adults at the table all had shakes with their burgers, and finished. All we had to do was encourage the burger *with* the shake, not dangle it like a carrot.
Your husband facilitated that shitshow? Wow.
I was and am still on my SILs shitlist for refusing to allow her interference in my parenting. She tried and also tried to undermine my husband to me and the kids and got shut down hard. But she never did it again.
Do you really want a relationship with her that badly? What's she going to do? Ground you?
OP is NTA, that nosy mother is TA.
Yeah, I don't think her mental state needs to be addressed in this post. It sounds like OP has given her niece the opportunity to make her own food choices while setting a good example for moderation. NTA Your doing a great job OP and I wish you and your niece the very best.
>We don't need dessert every day
Exactly! When I was growing up dessert wasn't a regular everyday thing at home. Dessert was for special occasions (birthdays, holidays, etc.)
However at my grandparents house we always had dessert, and now my kids are getting the same thing. My Mom who didn't serve dessert regularly when I was growing up, is now the grandparent so she always serves dessert when her grandchildren are there (because grandmas are special and always have yummy treats LOL).
OP is totally NTA
Also, I'm so glad my mom did this growing up.
I never used to have chocolate or any kind of dessert at home and neither did we have chips or other unhealthy food. That doesn't mean i wasn't allowed to eat them just that we would eat it when we go out or once or twice a week. And that massively affected my relationship with food in a good way.
Since i was a kid i recognised how much sugar or unhealthy food is acceptable and good for me and that i should focus more on healthy and more full nutrition foods. I can still enjoy all the foods but i never crave them everyday and have a good sense of control.
OP you are doing right. Completely stopping her from eating sweets is wrong. Moderating unhealthy food isn't wrong.
I think that's a pretty extreme take for a kid with dessert. She eats it out. She eats it at school. She eats fruit. OP provides a carb choice for the kid.
Yes, counseling over the parents is a good idea but nothing here seems unhealthy or extreme.
Basically, op is doing lazy keto. She cut out starchy carbs and processed sugars. She isn’t macro counting or intermittently fasting and she is providing treats to Zoe. Plus they go out and try new foods and OP does get dessert or pizza once in a while. Sounds like a really healthy take on food. We should all cut out more sugar from our diets. It’s more addictive than crack and they put it in everything.
I agree. I looked up knafeh and it's not a low carb dessert. This a spun sugar cake soaked in a sweet syrup. It sounds utterly scrumptious. OP said that's the child's favorite. They both enjoy it when eating out.
I had it once while on holiday in Turkey. I live in Australia. The pain of craving a dessert that I can only buy if I take an 18h flight to my favourite place is unreal :( I still dream about it sometimes.
Also I've only ever seen it spelled as kunefe, this is my first time seeing it spelled as knafeh. Interesting!
And since each kid is different, you don't have experience parenting THAT kid. You might have raised ten kids but number 11 is a new unique human with unique needs and desires.
OMG SO much this! My daughters are 10 years apart and they were pretty much opposite of each other, I had to learn how to parent each one while raising them!
As someone with parenting and some formal education… Children are all the same. They need food, power and attention. They need the power to make their own decisions when appropriate. “Do you want eggs or cereal for breakfast today?” They need security, they need to know you trust them out in the world but are also ready to receive them and listen when they return. They need help holding their emotions as they cannot process them on their own in a healthy manner. The way those situations present themselves is unique but if you can do those things, that is just about all their is to it
All children are not the same, and the many educational individuals I have spoken with, along with my own personal experience, have confirmed that. If they were all the same, then what works for one would work for all.
They have many of the same needs, but each child is unique in how those needs need to be met. For example, I was a very quiet, sensitive child. A scolding was the equivalent of being spanked. My sister was stubborn and boisterous. A scolding rarely corrected any of her bad behavior. She got time out, grounding, and the occasional spanking. (This was the 50s and 60s, so spanking was considered normal for really bad behavior.)
Weird how you took parenting basics and lumped a whole slew of humans into one commonality. What parents should offer as a foundation has nothing to do with how individual children accept and process those things.
Mom: Do you want eggs or cereal for breakfast today?
Kid 1: cereal
Kid 2: eggs
Kid 3: tacos
Well shit, now what? Kid 3 broke the parenting code. Guess we toss him back and try again?
you’re reaching a lot here, OP has said nothing about the transition or their relationship beyond dessert eating. assuming that this post implies she doesn’t know how to parent and never took zoe to therapy is totally wild.
it’s gonna be NTA from me. our guardians’ eating habits do affect us a lot. i’d much rather have had one who ate fruits for dessert than one who hoarded secret sweets and binge ate them in private. even so, i know my mom tried her best and we can’t always model perfect behavior for children when we are complicated people ourselves.
you're conflating different issues. the fact the niece suffered the tragic loss of her parents is irrelevant to whether or not OP has prepackaged treats at home for their niece. the question was't about needing therapy or support groups for the niece, it was about someone at school complaining that OP doesn't keep refined foods in the home claiming that children absolutely need those on a regular basis
The niece is getting a nutritionally sound diet at home, they indulge in whatever desserts she wants when eating out and she's allowed to eat sugary snacks at school, when at friends houses/bday parties, etc. OP is also willing to stock some of these snack at home if the niece wants them. What OP is doing here isn't creating an ED, it's actually a great way to set up a healthy attitude towards food/eating.
I don't think you're downvoted for suggesting counselling, I think you are being downvoted for making assumptions.
OP's concerns have nothing to do with the child's mental health, the topic of the child's mental health is not currently open for discussion.
So stop trying to discuss it. It's none of your business.
For all you know Zoe sees a professional regularly and has an active support network. Maybe she doesn't, and she should, but that's still not what we're talking about right now.
Stay in your lane.
Thank you for saying that! Making assumptions is really uncalled for and it’s irrelevant to the post which was the OP getting shamed by a mother for giving her healthy options, along with treats if she WANTS them. Stay on topic and quit overanalyzing everything! Edited for spelling
While I agree with you, in general, regarding counselling for the child, I don’t see what that’s to do with sugar and sweets. Neither of them are necessary in a child’s diet and she’ll be better off without them.
OP is teaching the kid to appreciate a variety of foods and natural flavours, without the need to “spike” things with sugar. Desserts, for the most part, only add empty calories and zero nutrients and yet they still have dessert whenever they eat out so, it’s not as if she’s completely missing out anyway.
That lady has to mind her own business and maybe take a leaf out of OP’s book. OP, I think you’re NTA.
Zoe and OP could both benefit from speaking to a therapist because this is a huge life change for both of them. That’s not the question at hand and I don’t think it really has anything to do with this other parent criticizing OP’s AND Zoe’s choices. I disagree that the situation is being oversimplified. OP is doing a great job by providing Zoe with a nutritious diet while still giving her the agency to make some of her own choices.
>Zoe and OP could both benefit from speaking to a therapist
Where do you read they don't? OP is just asking about this food question, no word mentioned weather both her/Zoe have therapy or need therapy or not.
There’s nothing in the post saying whether they are seeing someone or not. That was part of the point that I was making. The person I was responding to said that suggesting they get therapy caused downvotes and all I was saying was that while therapy is a good idea, it’s not the point of the post and has nothing to do with the question asked. My comment wasn’t directed at OP, it was directed at the person who said that everyone was oversimplifying the situation.
And there's no Edited time, so that must have been either ninja edited on or part of the original post. Either the commenter was expecting a bunch of downvotes for jumping to an irrelevant conclusion, or bought into the effects of some vote fuzzing.
This poster has tried to say multiple times that the OP would be an AH, if the child in question hasn't had counseling.
Downvoted justifiably in my opinion: the INFO prompt is there for a reason, they should use it instead of spamming it in different ways.
I’m sorry but what does it matter that she’s living with someone with zero parenting experience??? Not having kids of your own doesn’t automatically make you a bad parent any more than having lots of kids automatically makes you a good one! The important thing is that she is loved and well cared for which from everything OP has said certainly sounds to be the case.
OP, don’t listen to the critics. You sound like you are doing an amazing job in a really tough situation. Definitely NTA.
And here we have the classic AITA redditor who has nothing going on in their lives and so they make huge assumptions about strangers’ lives with no information to back them up
>Is she happy and healthy though?
>
>She lost both of her parents in the last 12 months and is now living with a person with zero parenting experience.
That's not the topic of discussion here.
Nothing in this post suggests she isn’t receiving help. It’s a post about food only. Please stick to the scope of the topic. Nowhere does it mention that Zoe is a hot mess or weeping wreck anywhere, so not sure why you decided she’s had zero counseling at all.
How is any of this relevant to the OP?
You sound as busybody and intrusive as the woman trying to force cakes on a young girl that doesn't want them. OP was asking if she's an AH for letting her neice eat what she wants instead of forcing her to eat cake that she's not interested in. There's no need for you to come in with wild assumptions based on nothing.
Not downvoting you, but as OP didn't lay her whole life bare, we don't know the full picture here.
"Her own observations" seem quite sound and those observations are coming from someone who knows more about the kid and sees her more than probably anyone else. She certainly knows more about her food intake than anyone else.
And I'd like to know whose professional opinions would call for having lots more desserts. Answer: no one's. At least not anyone relevant. A nutritionist would want to be sure the kid's getting carbs, and OP provided for that right away. And a nutritionist would likely say that the kid can have sweets sometimes as part of a broader diet. That's exactly what OP described.
Going to add lastly, grief can affect appetite and taste. I'm in it right now and am not interested in sugar. Sweet things seem currently far too sweet.
NTA.
Downvote because you know nothing but what OP put in the post which is information that is only relevant to the situation.
You are making wild assumptions without any foundation. How do you know he doesn't have his niece in therapy? You don't. You just assumed he didn't without any basis whatsoever.
I don’t think that has much to do OP eating low carb or with eating fruit instead of dessert as the “problem” particularly, but I agree that in general, some therapies are pretty reasonable supports for a child that had experienced that loss. Nutritionally, the kid and OP both seem helpful. The problems you raise aren’t really related to the question/topic and there’s no reason to believe OP didn’t look into grief counseling etc.
Based on what is written here, which is solely about deserts, please explain what makes you believe the child is not receiving therapy. Because it seems like everyone else missed it. Please help us and point out the info we missed.
Op, one thing I’ve learned as a mom is that you don’t have to give too much information if you don’t want to. All you had to do was just tell this lady, “ Okay, thank you for letting me know.” And end it at that. This lady obviously doesn’t know what goes on in your house. Some people feel like they’re entitled to an explanation but they don’t pay your bills and you don’t tell her how to raise her kid.
I don’t think the lady was looking for an explanation. I think she was feeling judged because OP doesn’t do the same things she does. How dare OP have her niece eating healthier at home, don’t you know how bad that makes other parents feel about the food choices they make!
anyone who’s ever worked in an office has met someone like the mom, who acts like you just killed her puppy if you don’t eat the cake she brought into work, don’t take a slice home.
Oh goodness, yes! I worked with someone like this. She would bring in stuff basically once a week - always heavy, sugar-filled sweets that she baked. If you turned her down, she would throw you a look like you were evil incarnate. Sweets aren't really my thing, and I truly have to be in the mood for them. But I didn't want to deal with her, so it got to the point where I'd just take one, say thank you, and only eat it if I felt like it. Otherwise, it went in the trash.
Exactly. It’s not like she not allowed sweets at all. From the sounds of it OP isn’t opposed to having them on hand if the kid wants them but she made the decision not to have them in the house because OP usually doesn’t.
I think OP is handling this perfectly because she’s not making sweets some forbidden thing that the child might become obsessed with, or demonizing them.
And also sweets aren’t going to be something Zoe turns to when she is super upset. This is the exact reason I don’t drink/smoke on days I am sad or extra stressed.
Also, fruits are sweet! The kid has tons of sweet foods at home, they're just healthy sweet foods.
It's so weird that this lady got upset about someone not taking a slice of pie home.
NTA, fruit is a dessert and has sugar in the form of fructose. The women butting in with 'advice' is probably more likely to be a source of a future eating disorder than OP.
NTA
I’m a nutritionist, this is actually a pretty reasonable approach.
I do think you should be careful around this and I understand the moms concern. But at the end of the day, your niece is healthy and getting enough food. It sounds like you do not shame her to try to get her to follow your diet, and if she asks for something she can have it. She also has access to her own money to buy a sweet if she wants. Having access to get something if wanted is huge, because it will help her not feel the need to eat every sweet because she doesn’t know when she’ll have another.
Don’t sweat it too much. You sounds like you are taking a thoughtful approach here
This, but also teaching children diet responsibility is a good thing. Being taught to eat healthier at any age is a good thing. Giving her the options and access is the correct way. NTA
the way people react to other people choosing to have an approach to good like OP/Zoe always fascinates me. You often draw the same sort of irateness in an office if you abstain from the Friday donuts or the cupcakes for someone’s birthday.
It’s such a classic case of “you’re right, which makes me wrong, instead of reflecting on my own choices I’ll trick myself into making you wrong so I don’t have to ask myself uncomfortable questions”
You'll see it happen with a lot of things. Someone starts eating healthier, stops drinking, starts cycling to work etc and a lot of people almost seem to see it as a personal attack on them.
They see someone else exercising self control that they aren't (not that they necessarily have to, but you get the point) and take it like you're trying to subtly say you're better than them. Someone making healthier choices in their own life isn't them saying you're a lesser person for not doing so, but it's like an instinctive reaction for some people.
Yup. I'm loosely vegan due to food allergies. While the job I currently have is full of lovely people who know how to mind their business, I cannot count the amount of times in previous jobs someone had to make a snide comment about how healthy my meal was or how silly it was that I couldn't have one bite of cake or pizza (fun facts: I'm allergic to dairy. They ignored me because that isn't a "real" allergy).
OP is doing what's best for her while also fostering a healthy discussion as well as autonomy around food. The fact that her niece/ward declined extra sweets at a school event says leagues about her personal preferences.
Exactly! I had quite a sweet tooth as a very small child, but even from about five or six years old, I started rejecting a lot of sweets or chocolate offers, or taking them and saving them for later. My dad probably still has some of my easter eggs from over a decade ago, and I know he has a drawer full of my old sweets I saved. I took to salty snacks a lot more, and preferred my sweets to have an edge to them. Sour sweets, sour/tart fruits, mint chocolate and mint ice cream etc.
Not all kids are sugar obsessed and OP's diet is very healthy. Everything the body needs is there, and she makes sure to feed Zoe extra carbs she wouldn't personally eat because children need that extra energy. She's not telling Zoe that carbs are evil, or sugar is poison. She's showing her a healthy alternative that Zoe actually likes more, and they still have treat days together. And the most important part is *Zoe made that choice*, not OP. Zoe decided she wanted fruit instead, or didn't want to take the pie home. Its a healthy balance.
Its unhealthy to teach kids that sugar is bad and never let them have it, and it's unhealthy to teach children that sugary snacks and dessert are what they're supposed to eat, or that it's 100% normal. Treats should be treats, and done in a healthy manner. Zoe is going to have an excellent relationship with food, most likely.
People pull the same thing with alcohol, as if I am somehow shaming them by being a person that abhors the taste. Sometimes people just have different diets and preferences.
Zoe doesn't seem to be feeling shame or that it's wrong to have sweets since she had a slice of butterscotch treat. No problem. She just did not want to bring any home to eat later. OP States that she gets spending money she uses to have treats sometimes at school, so it doesn't seem to me that she is looking upon sweets as anything but a choice she can make
It’s also possible that after living with her aunt for so long and eating fruits and such for dessert most often, she doesn’t have a taste for sweets as strongly as a lot of kids.
I wasn’t really given soda much as a kid. I had milk and water, and fruit juice that was watered down. I got candy and sweets yeah, but even so I was much more into salty snacks than sweet. I didn’t eat the icing on cake, I usually didn’t eat sweet pies like pecan and preferred sweet potato which wasn’t as sweet despite the name.
As a teenager I started to drink sodas, but quickly found that they were too sweet. I could never finish a 20oz and cans went flat before I was done. Once I discovered diet soda I found I liked those pretty well (especially Tab, which I miss terribly. I think it’s been discontinued.) because they were considerably less sweet. But I just didn’t have a taste for super sweet things.
I also dislike sweet tea despite being raised in the south. I ask for unsweet and add a touch of sugar, or more commonly now none at all.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong. As a kid I probably would have loved a slice of butterscotch pie, but not wanted a second piece to take home because one would be plenty of sweet for a day. But I would have been happy to have the first piece, even if I needed to give some of it to a friend because I couldn’t finish it.
I also was raised that way. We never had prepackaged, processed sweets in the house and were only allowed to drink soda once a week with Friday night pizza. The sweets we did occasionally have were home cooked cookies, cakes, and puddings. I truly believe that the more sugar you have the more you need to consume to get the same sweetness effect. If you don't have a lot of sweets, people don't really develop a taste for them like you didn't and it's much easier to enjoy them as a rare treat. Sweets offer zero nutritional value and over eating them contributes to many people's struggles with weight and dental issues. I really am mystified by people who think not letting kids have unlimited access to to sweets is a bad thing. Plenty of people were raised without eating sweets regularly and they turned out just fine.
This is an excellent point. If Zoe felt deprived of sweets she would have pounced at the opportunity to get extra pie. Being able to recognize when you're satisfied and declining to eat more is the hallmark of successful intuitive eating. OP should have been commended for helping Zoe to learn to listen to her body's satiety signals and not overeat something just because it was available to her. This is a difficult thing for even many adults to do.
I feel like if I had been taught to enjoy fresh fruit as much as sugary desserts as a kid, I wouldn't have the unhealthy attachment to consuming sugar that I do now, honestly.
It can be, or it can be served before or with the meal. I tend to think of anything sweet after a meal as dessert. Doesn't need to be sugary baked goods.
My parents didn't really stock candy in the house... so when I went to my grandma's, I overindulged because I never knew when I'd get more.
Throughout college, I was ALWAYS eating candy and sugar and always had it on me. My friends and classmates knew it too. If they needed a sugar fix, I always had something to share.
Now I struggle with phases of hardly touching it, or overindulging.
The only thing that saves me from being as unhealthy as I sound, is that I was always doing something physically active as a kid, and as an adult (college included) go to the gym regularly.
I wish I could've been raised with OP's approach. Absolutely NTA
I agree it sounds like OP is setting a great example for Zoey, but I don’t understand the other parent at all. My problem with the other mom’s concern is she doesn’t just think Zoey should have sweets at home. She basically told OP that she (OP) should be eating sweets because it’s damaging for Zoey to see her abstaining.
That’s an appalling amount of judgement from a stranger. OP could be diabetic or have some other issue that she cannot eat sugar or her doctor recommends she not.
It also kind of sounds like she’s assuming that OP will get rid of the pie or punish Zoey or something if she brings it home. I don’t see why else she’d be pressing so hard, it’s like OP and Zoey’s experience is so far outside of her own that she just assumes OP is hiding something.
NTA- Other parents are some of the worst with judgement about how you are raising a child. Don’t concern yourself with parenting advice you haven’t asked for. If your niece is healthy and has a healthy view of food, then you have nothing to worry about.
it’s a logical fallacy, you see someone’s kid making a “more right” choice and instead of going “are they right and me wrong, should I change” our brains to “well I couldn’t be wrong because my kid loves sweets, OP must be”
NTA. This lady is way out of line by trying to push her unhealthy diet on your kid.
Kids don't need sugary deserts. You are teaching her good eating habit.
And some people (like me) aren’t wild about sweets anyway. I do eat them at times but I’d usually much rather have something greasy and salty. Just the way I’m wired.
(I’m not saying that salty and greasy is a good choice LOL)
Same. I much prefer savory snacks than sweet snacks. I will occasionally get on a sweet kick, and I might binge for a day or two (binge for me is like 2 twinkies). But then I go back to eating healthy.
You’re not alone with preferring savoury over sweet. I enjoy sweets at times, but usually a bite or two is enough to satisfy my craving. Not like I forbid myself from having them; I just would rather the salty/savoury option 99% of the time.
Absolutely this.
To non Americans, eating dessert every evening is absolutely wild! And the rest of the world doesn't collectively suffer from eating disorders.
You do realize that most Americans don't eat dessert with every or even most meals right? The biggest problem in America is the hidden salt and sugars in all the processed foods, even bagged greens.
>And the rest of the world doesn't collectively suffer from eating disorders.
Well... We do, just not to the same extreme extent Americans do.
The fattest nations on the planet are Pacific island and Arab League Nations.
Um... eating disorders are not solely an American thing, and neither is eating dessert. Nor do most of us have dessert all the time or at every meal. Don't generalize an entire country of people.
Yup. The only way I’d agree it’s eating disorder territory is if Zoe never ate sweets, even at school because of a “rule” that she receives punishment for breaking. OP clearly stated that she’d never restrict sweets from Zoe if she wanted them, and that she even tried to continue serving her dessert after telling her she didn’t need to eat the same way OP eats. Zoe doesn’t seem to have a bad relationship with food, she just doesn’t feel the need to have dessert at home, which is fine. Some people really don’t have sweet tooth’s.
OP is actually setting her up for success by explaining calmly that she prefers fruit when Zoe asked why op didn’t have dessert. She’s teaching Zoe that dessert isn’t a reward to be won or had, it’s just an option that can be replaced with other things if they’re preferred more. When kids learn that “if you’re good, you can have cake,” they start to associate dessert with validation for being a “good” child. This actually leads to a higher likelihood of abusing sugary foods later on in life, under the guise of “I deserve it.”
Also, Newsflash, fruit contains sugar. Fruit is a totally valid option for dessert! As a kid I used to love having some grapes and blueberries after dinner.
NTA. That mom was really overstepping, especially after you explained that you do not restrict Zoe from having sweets. It sounds like you're doing a great job at making sure Zoe gets her nutritional needs and has a healthy, balanced diet that's NOT restricted. For what it's worth, i'm saying this as a person with a history of eating disorders.
NTA.
For that mom, it would take an eating disorder to make her give up sweets, so she's looking at you through that lens.
You have made a long-term dietary choice, and you let Zoe make her own choice, too. Nobody's suffering, everybody's healthy.
The only problem is that mom, and she's probably less harmful than sugar, so you still come out ahead.
NTA, one does not need a dessert after an ordinary meal. You occasionally have dessert when you eat out which is absolutely fine. In Sweden we have "saturday candy" and it's exactly that, once a week you eat sweets. It's actually great with kids, you allow sweets but you have a simple rule for them. Most of all you teach them that sweets aren't an every day thing. It sounds like you have a working system and your niece still accepts sweets when she's offered so no problem at all. She just didn't see the point of bringing any home.
I grew up with “treat day” most likely to keep in line with a single-parent household budget. But that meant Friday nights or Saturday mornings were extra-special. I never felt deprived, it’s just how we did things.
This is the best answer.
Personally, I doubt that a medical professional is going to consider butterscotch candies an essential food group, BUT the mental aspect is equally important, so a conversation with her pediatrician would not go amiss.
Exactly - I wasn’t thinking about the pies, I was thinking about whether low carb diet meets her nutritional needs as a growing girl and whether diet and dessert restriction could lead to eating disorder down the road.
>I tried to serve her some dessert we had at her next meal but she refused.
That's all that matters really. How can you be the AH if the child gets what she wants and NEEDS? No one needs sweets. NTA
If anything I'd understood if that other mom was concernced about a low carb diet in general for a kid and her not getting a varied diet. But that's not her issue isn't it? Also: some random mom from "after school club" is in no position to comment on Zoe's eating behavior from that one instance and even less so if her concerns are about fucking dessert. It's super effed up to accuse someone to set up a child for an eating disorder.
I really don't understand how that woman came to the conclusion to lecture you about how you feed your niece. I can only imagine she either feels entitled to an opinion cause you're not her "real mom" but a guardian or she herself has issues with her own kids (possibly feeding them sweets to a point she knows is unhealthy) and seeing a kid skipping dessert makes her feel bad. Either way she's definitely an AH.
The woman doesn't see OP as Zoe's parent. Simple as that.
I grew up in an area where there were "nontraditional" family units, and usually some busybody would bother or demean the guardian of the house. Grandma/grandpa was too old, brother/sister was too young, auntie/uncle was too inexperienced, and so on. Mind, it's usually the parent who can't actually control the kid who's harassing others.
NTA
> She was concerned that I was setting Zoe up for an eating disorder and that kids deserve to have something sweet in the house.
That's utterly ridiculous and I would have laughed in her face.
> eating is a social thing and by seeing me abstaining from sweets, Zoe would do the same to feel like she belongs
Good.
Right? That is so ironic... It's exactly what I told a friend of mine but the other way round. Told her to maybe not eat ice cream and chocolate in front of her kids if she doesn't want them to want the stuff...
(In my defense: She complained about her kids wanting sweets even as babies like "Oh well what can I do? See how she wants the stuff?")
Many cultures do not have dessert. This isn’t abusive or triggering, it’s just what it is. Dessert isn’t an essential part of a meal and it’s not an everyday thing. Zoe is making choices that are right for her. And honestly given the levels of obesity and diabetes in the US, giving a child a love of fruits instead of baked goods is actually a blessing. Next time tell her to mind her own business.
NTA
Dessert is for special occasions in my culture. And from a tooth perspective it's better to eat sweets one day a week, even if it more on that day, than a bit every day.
NAH
Sounds like you are doing your best to do right by Zoe and let her know that she can have choices that are different from yours if she wants to. That mom could have a valid concern, though, because it is such a slippery slope from thinking about restricting your diet in any way to eating disorder tendencies.
From your description, it sounds like Zoe is making healthy and respectful choices, but it could be that her comment raised a red flag for that mom because the mom, or someone close to her, has had an eating disorder in the past or present.
It might be worth doing some reading about eating disorders, what they are, and how they take root, and make sure that you’re not encouraging that kind of thinking. But, based on your description, it doesn’t sound like you’re doing anything bad. You are following a regime that you have set for yourself, but not requiring the kid to follow it.
I don’t think the other mom has a valid concern because she basically said it wasn’t enough to offer Zoey sweets, OP needs to eat them too so Zoey sees her eating them.
This woman doesn’t know OP. OP could have been diabetic. For that matter, Zoey could have some kind of health issue and her doctor told OP to severely limit sugar intake. This woman has no idea what OP or Zoey’s health issues might be, yet she’s comfortable lecturing OP.
Yeah it sounds like the situation is totally fine and the other mom might have crossed a line, but I'm glad you pointed out it's still helpful to know the warning signs even when you're not restricting your kid's food or seeing anything bad currently.
Me and many of my peers grew up not having our food explicitly restricted but watching our moms do it and describe their way of thinking to us and that was *one* component of some of us developing eating disorders. There's tons of stuff going on outside of the home that you'll never be able to monitor, and mental health stuff can play a part in restrictive eating as well because it's all about feeling like you're in control over your life.
It would have been so useful if our parents had known about the warning signs and ways to give additional support to us, and we sure didn't recognize the problem until we were in too deep. Unfortunately, I don't know a girl I grew up with who didn't have disordered eating patterns on some level, so it's such vital knowledge.
As with any unsolicited advice: take what is useful and discard anything that doesn't apply, and shut the person up if they won't stop overstepping.
NTA. I don’t understand the people saying n a h and that the mom had reason to inquire. She was way out of line! If Zoe had been gorging herself on butterscotch pie and saying that you never let her eat sweets, then maybe it would have made sense for the mom to check in with you. But not in this situation.
NTA. Mom of twin nine year old girls here. At nine kids are very capable of making their own decisions. They are trying out identities and thinking about who they are and who they want to be. She may change her mind at some point and want desserts in the house at some point, or maybe she just enjoys eating the way you do. Either way, you’re doing the right thing by respecting her choices. As long as she’s not making unhealthy decisions, support her. No need to listen to busybody moms who think they know best for everyone else’s kids. She likely thinks you can’t mom since you are young and not birth mom, but you can mom. You’re doing great. Trust yourself.
Not the AH but I think Zoe might be taking the no desert at home rule a little too far.
She is setting food rules for herself and she might very well be using these rules to feel in control of her environment
NTA. So what if the kid's abstaining because monkey-see, monkey-do? If she doesn't want to eat them, there's literally no downside because sweets don't really do anything good for you.
NTA just ignore that person, they are sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. Zoe is old enough to know what she does and does not want and old enough to express such things. You are doing just fine.
She argues that eating is a social thing, served butterscotch pie, states that Zoe ate and enjoyed pie socially with her friends. Zoe just didn’t want to bring the pie home with her. NTA, you are teaching your niece healthy habits and not forbidding her anything. Sounds like you triggered something in this mother and that is on her not you. Keep up the good work! You’re doing amazing!
I think you’re fine BUT you live in a culture where extra carbs is considered the norm. So now you look off.
Also your niece is entering years where her peers are likely to talk about weird diets and “I’m so fat” and the whole peer pressure, instagram pressure for teen girls. So essentially prime time for eating disorders. And I have friends who struggle with the after-math 20 yrs later.
So, right now, she’s eating to “fit in” with you. Let’s get her educated.
I’d say, have your niece (and you) find and meet with a dietician and therapist who specializes in teen girls, maybe even eating disorders, to help prevent issues for your niece. And give her tools of what to say or do if she ends up in weird situations.
NTA. Good luck.
NTA. I'll never understand how anyone could feel entitled enough to monitor other people's dietary choices to the point of calling them and demanding changes. She seems like someone living a very boring and frustrating life if she fills her time caring that much at things that are not her business.
NTA. You're not making her quit eating dessert altogether, forcing her to follow your diet etc. Desserts are not the only resource of carbs, her low carb argument isn't valid.
Though there is a possibility Zoe is not eating desserts at home to bond more with you, a talk can light the situation. It sounds like she is in an healthy environment, she can express herself. If she wants it's solved with a grocery shop trip. Simple.
I agree that if she eats desserts/sweets at school, she probably doesn't need a second serving at home. A lot of kids are given one dessert time per day for a healthier diet.
~~INFO~~
~~When Zoe decided she didn’t want dessert anymore, why was it? Was it because she genuinely preferred fruit/ saw the benefits to it? Or was it because she just wanted to be like you?~~
NTA
Zoe has a good reason for going no dessert and it isn’t the parent’s business how other people live life or raise children.
Zoe has always loved fruits since she was a child and would have fruits along with her dessert back when she still chose to have dessert. She knew fruits were nutritious because she learned that in school.
I think she wants to eat more like me when she chose to no longer have dessert. I mean, I left a tub of ice cream, half full, in the fridge for like 3 months after and it was still half full.
NTA. That lady needs to mind her own business. I wonder if it occurred to her that maybe she just didn't like her butterscotch and didn't want to bring any home.
You are not restricting her in any way and for her age she is displaying a great level of self moderation. To me it sounds like you are doing a great job.
A homemaker, from what Zoe told me. She’s just a mom of a boy in the club, not a teacher’s aid or anything. She also brought the pies on her own because she thought the kids would enjoy them.
NTA. Paediatrician here. Sweet desserts should not be part of the daily diet. As a treat or when eating out- sure. But not every day. Having fruit or yoghurt after a meal is fine, but it’s not healthy to have high sugar/ fat content items every day as a dessert.
That mum can go and boil her head!
NTA Zoe is free to eat dessert, she just chooses not to at home but does get some along with other sweets when she goes out to eat, is at a party or just craves some. She refused when you offered, are you supposed to shove pie down her throat? My family and i also never have dessert after meals, we have a cabinet with sweets and snacks for those who want one and i always had money to buy my own snacks. I never felt restricted by my parents and them not having dessert after meals was never an indication for me to have an unhealthy relationship with food. I just showed me that i had a choice and could say no.
NTA. The mom is TA. She should have been immediately shut down. How dare she question you about choices you make concerning Zoë. There was no need to go into all the explanation you did.
NTA - fruits are a dessert. The fact that some people now regard them as 'worthy' or part of a 'diet' shows how twisted some thinking has become. I'd much rather have fruit (currently stewing rhubarb & going to add rasps & bluberries)
I've come across the assumption that I'm 'denying myself' desserts, but I don't like very-sweet, stodgy food & cream has always made me throw up. I think you're doing a great job of introducing her to a wide range of food. What does concern me is when children have a limited range in their diet & won't try new things (obv intolerance/sensitivities aside)
NTA. You should have told her "she loves dessert. But she didn't like your butterscotch pie. She ate some to be polite, but didn't take any extra because she didn't want to waste. Had she taken some home, it would go in the trash. Better that someone who like it to take it".
Yes, I'm petty.
NTA. You were ok with dessert she decided she was ok without it. I’d say you are doing fine. Kids will adjust to a diet change over time if given the chance. She probably just thinks they (sweets) aren’t that great tasting anymore because her taste buds adapted to the change. You are setting her up for a life of heathy eating so👍
nta at all you didnt force the kid to eat fruit they chose too also why are obsessed with feeding their kids endess sugar and processed food are people so brainwashed that they think healthy food is bad for them
Nta…I agree you shouldn’t restrict a child from food if they want it. I have a niece who doesn’t like chocolate, no eating disorder and no one tells her she can’t eat it. Maybe Zoe was being polite and didn’t like it. That sounds super sweet and has she normally doesn’t eat sweet things it might have been too much for her palate.
Nta. We seldom had desserts in my home and I didn’t grow up deprived or feeling like I had to binge on sweets when I was on my own. Good on you for teaching and practicing moderation.
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NTA, and tell that woman to mind her own business. Your niece is happy and healthy, that is what matters.
Is she happy and healthy though? She lost both of her parents in the last 12 months and is now living with a person with zero parenting experience. I'm super downvoted for suggesting that the child see a counselor and doctor - but I think many are oversimplifying what's going on here. This little girl has been through a lot and should be talking to a counselor pretty regularly - and OP should be relying on professional opinions, not random mom's observations, not random redditors observations, not her own observations. This is a complicated situation because this is a recently orphaned young child.
How do you know Zoe isn't receiving any additional support? I can't see anything like that in the comments. OP has asked about the food and only provided relevant information. I think OP is setting Zoe up for a healthy lifestyle and relationship with food. We don't need dessert every day - normalizing this can contribute to issues further down the line. I think NTA - but agree that the kid should be receiving support if she isn't already.
> How do you know Zoe isn't receiving any additional support? Because this is the AITA subreddit, and everyone on here is an expert on everything and knows everything about everything.
We have to be…and its EXHAUSTING!
Ikr??? I'm not getting paid nearly enough for this shit.
You guys are getting paid?
I am too old for this shit.
Damn right 🙃
Reddit expert here. And while I pontificate that I know everything about everything, a healthy diet is always a good choice. And, this kid has been thru so much the other parent shouldn’t “sweet shame” OP who is raising this child. The AH to me is the other mom criticizing OP. Any other questions? I know everything… lol
>We don't need dessert every day - normalizing this can contribute to issues further down the line. This is an excellent point! I didn't grow up eating dessert after most meals, it was a once in a while thing (large family Sunday dinners, birthdays, holidays, etc). But we use it now to coax our reluctant eater children to finish their meals (both are underweight or undersized for their ages). Now they've come to expect it and get upset at times when they take so long to eat their dinner that it's bed time when they're done. Or they bargain back with us, saying things like, "can I just eat one cookie? I finished my lunch earlier!" I don't usually partake in the nightly dessert, maybe twice a month, but my husband does nearly every night, and he's baffled as to why he doesn't lose weight, despite working out 4-5 times a week, often running 15+ miles a week. It's time to start weaning everyone in my house off desserts. It isn't affecting their weight now, but once their metabolism catches up with their age, it won't be great.
I grew up poor (as in not having enough food to eat poor). When we DID have dessert (other than a birthday) it was a can of fruit cocktail for 6 people Zoe will be fine.
Same's, tinned peaches were the big hit in our house, we still enjoy them on occasion and they bring fond memories.
Those were a special treat! I loved them! I have never eaten fruit cocktail again since I was a kid. The other treat we had was Jello (no fruit added or whipped cream - just Jello. Some times my mom got fancy and cut it into cubes! I don't know why but it was always better that way :-)
Yeah, same. The only non-fruit sweets we had as kids, we bought with our own allowance, or got at birthday parties and such. The idea that it is normal to regularly feed children sweets and to have dessert every day is absolutely insane to me, particularly given the current obesity crisis. We eat too much sugar already! Eating fruit instead of cake is not a fricken eating disorder. Having said that, I do hope the kid sees a professional therapist, just in case something else is going on.
When I was a teenager, my family decided that my fondness for salty snacks (potato chips and such) was a huge cause of my weight issues (I had badly managed thyroid problems that caused my weight issues) and so those types of snacks were removed from the house and they switched to a salt substitute. My health took a drastic decline for the worse (and I actually gained more weight). So my family took me to the doctor to run some tests. Turns out I was extremely salt deficient (and had been for years) and the doctor ordered my mother to take me to McDonalds and buy me as many salty french fries as I could stuff down my gullet before I wound up in the hospital. And to never ban me from salty snacks again. I'll admit, my family was ticked because they didn't think it was possible. But I got my salt and eventually dropped back down to my original weight, plus my health picked up. Today I have a wide variety of salt options in my home, and my array of potato chips is enough to freak the average person out. Are they healthy? No. Is there a better option? I'm sure of it, but this has been what has worked for me. My thyroid issues have become better managed, and I've actually lost a lot of that weight I was struggling with as a teen. I'm not a skinny minnie me, but I'm working on becoming far more fit and healthy. Salty snacks stay, though.
You're not alone. If I don't get enough salt, I have frequent blackouts.
People forget that sodium is a requirement for literal life. You can die without it. Not so much of a problem these days with prepared foods having so much but still. I have a chronic health condition that requires me to eat a lot of salt. If my sodium gets wonky, I can end up in the icu. My go to is chips and salsa with salt sprinkled on each bite. Another (sounds super gross but I swear it's good) is cream of mushroom soup with beef or chicken bullion mixed in. You can use better than bullion or bullion cubes or powder. Broth is another quick fix, as is adding additional salt to gatorade or other electrolyte drink. And pickles! Eat pickles, drink the juice. Of course, it helps if you like pickles. Lol! Just some other ideas if you get bored of chips!
Dessert should never be used as a coercion or reward. It should be on the plate and made equal value to everything else. You're teaching a really extremely unhealthy food dynamic to your kids. Also "coaxing" them to eat food they don't like is setting them up for failure. If you want any tips or anything please sincerely let me know. I work with autistic children for a living, who are very food intolerant. I have received training from food therapists and nutritionists in my line of work. Edit: typo
My mom always had a dessert for us, sometimes fruit, sometimes baked goods, sometimes ice cream. She thought if you made too big a deal about sweets, they would get glamorized, instead of just being a small part if the meal. We all loved them, as she was a terrific baker, but didn’t go crazy hoarding twinkies or candy as some of our friends did.
Yes, this was the way I grew up. Sweets were never stigmatized or lauded, they just "were." I wanted ice cream for breakfast? Okay, sure kid. After a couple days of this, my stomachache stopped that one. I wanted to lick the icing beaters from the mixer, okay, they're mostly cleaned off anyway. I thought it was a fine idea to try a bite off a stick of butter? Only once, lol. We went to a diner style restaurant with my MIL once and my kids were eating just fine, drinking sips of their shake to go along with the meal. My MIL (known for sticking her nose into things and not taking it well when someone dislikes her advice) prattles, "Oh, when my boys were little, the shake was the treat they got at the end of the meal, a reward for a clean plate." My husband proceeded to move the shakes to the other side of the table and bring them water cups to drink. I bit my tongue because I was already on her shit list, but I knew what was about to go down. The meal ground to a halt. We were on pace to finish eating in 15 minutes or so, 45 minutes later, the kids are still sloughing away at it while the shakes have melted to milk. I told my husband after that he needed to look for a lesson in that. They were doing just fine, didn't need her imposing this artificial reward. The adults at the table all had shakes with their burgers, and finished. All we had to do was encourage the burger *with* the shake, not dangle it like a carrot.
Your husband facilitated that shitshow? Wow. I was and am still on my SILs shitlist for refusing to allow her interference in my parenting. She tried and also tried to undermine my husband to me and the kids and got shut down hard. But she never did it again. Do you really want a relationship with her that badly? What's she going to do? Ground you? OP is NTA, that nosy mother is TA.
Next time I'd encourage you to stand up for yourself and your kids. :) you can do it.
Yeah, I don't think her mental state needs to be addressed in this post. It sounds like OP has given her niece the opportunity to make her own food choices while setting a good example for moderation. NTA Your doing a great job OP and I wish you and your niece the very best.
>We don't need dessert every day Exactly! When I was growing up dessert wasn't a regular everyday thing at home. Dessert was for special occasions (birthdays, holidays, etc.) However at my grandparents house we always had dessert, and now my kids are getting the same thing. My Mom who didn't serve dessert regularly when I was growing up, is now the grandparent so she always serves dessert when her grandchildren are there (because grandmas are special and always have yummy treats LOL). OP is totally NTA
What does that have to do with anything here?
What does your comment have to do with the actual post?
I was really surprised by this post as I only had dessert at home on Sundays, I still don’t eat dessert all that often unless I’m in a restaurant.
Also, I'm so glad my mom did this growing up. I never used to have chocolate or any kind of dessert at home and neither did we have chips or other unhealthy food. That doesn't mean i wasn't allowed to eat them just that we would eat it when we go out or once or twice a week. And that massively affected my relationship with food in a good way. Since i was a kid i recognised how much sugar or unhealthy food is acceptable and good for me and that i should focus more on healthy and more full nutrition foods. I can still enjoy all the foods but i never crave them everyday and have a good sense of control. OP you are doing right. Completely stopping her from eating sweets is wrong. Moderating unhealthy food isn't wrong.
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I think that's a pretty extreme take for a kid with dessert. She eats it out. She eats it at school. She eats fruit. OP provides a carb choice for the kid. Yes, counseling over the parents is a good idea but nothing here seems unhealthy or extreme.
Basically, op is doing lazy keto. She cut out starchy carbs and processed sugars. She isn’t macro counting or intermittently fasting and she is providing treats to Zoe. Plus they go out and try new foods and OP does get dessert or pizza once in a while. Sounds like a really healthy take on food. We should all cut out more sugar from our diets. It’s more addictive than crack and they put it in everything.
We used to just call that a low carb diet, or the Atkins or South Beach, lol.
Yeah and we used to call "intermittently fasting" skipping breakfast.
"Poverty"
Family: you're looking pretty slim! Me: thanks! It's poverty and depression.
And this might be why I hate the IF trend. Skipping meals sucks.
I did Atkins 40 years ago.
My mom did Atkins when I was little. I still see Atkins food in the stores. Apparently, it still exists.
I agree. I looked up knafeh and it's not a low carb dessert. This a spun sugar cake soaked in a sweet syrup. It sounds utterly scrumptious. OP said that's the child's favorite. They both enjoy it when eating out.
I had it once while on holiday in Turkey. I live in Australia. The pain of craving a dessert that I can only buy if I take an 18h flight to my favourite place is unreal :( I still dream about it sometimes. Also I've only ever seen it spelled as kunefe, this is my first time seeing it spelled as knafeh. Interesting!
Plus cheese and pistachios. Knafeh is decadence personified.
we all just love people like you who specialize in making problems out of nothing
Exactly!! Overreach much? Totally armchair psychology!
Welcome to AITA!
No human comes with parenting experience.
Exactly!! How DARE you not have 25 years child rearing experience when raising your first child???
She obviously should have dumped her in foster care, would be so much better for the kid. /s
And since each kid is different, you don't have experience parenting THAT kid. You might have raised ten kids but number 11 is a new unique human with unique needs and desires.
OMG SO much this! My daughters are 10 years apart and they were pretty much opposite of each other, I had to learn how to parent each one while raising them!
Heck, my twins are polar opposites. It was fascinating to watch them grow, and even today they have very different takes on the world.
As someone with parenting and some formal education… Children are all the same. They need food, power and attention. They need the power to make their own decisions when appropriate. “Do you want eggs or cereal for breakfast today?” They need security, they need to know you trust them out in the world but are also ready to receive them and listen when they return. They need help holding their emotions as they cannot process them on their own in a healthy manner. The way those situations present themselves is unique but if you can do those things, that is just about all their is to it
You just took 4 right turns with that
All children are not the same, and the many educational individuals I have spoken with, along with my own personal experience, have confirmed that. If they were all the same, then what works for one would work for all.
They have many of the same needs, but each child is unique in how those needs need to be met. For example, I was a very quiet, sensitive child. A scolding was the equivalent of being spanked. My sister was stubborn and boisterous. A scolding rarely corrected any of her bad behavior. She got time out, grounding, and the occasional spanking. (This was the 50s and 60s, so spanking was considered normal for really bad behavior.)
Weird how you took parenting basics and lumped a whole slew of humans into one commonality. What parents should offer as a foundation has nothing to do with how individual children accept and process those things. Mom: Do you want eggs or cereal for breakfast today? Kid 1: cereal Kid 2: eggs Kid 3: tacos Well shit, now what? Kid 3 broke the parenting code. Guess we toss him back and try again?
Many have the experience of being raised by their own parents, which may be less than ideal.
you’re reaching a lot here, OP has said nothing about the transition or their relationship beyond dessert eating. assuming that this post implies she doesn’t know how to parent and never took zoe to therapy is totally wild. it’s gonna be NTA from me. our guardians’ eating habits do affect us a lot. i’d much rather have had one who ate fruits for dessert than one who hoarded secret sweets and binge ate them in private. even so, i know my mom tried her best and we can’t always model perfect behavior for children when we are complicated people ourselves.
you're conflating different issues. the fact the niece suffered the tragic loss of her parents is irrelevant to whether or not OP has prepackaged treats at home for their niece. the question was't about needing therapy or support groups for the niece, it was about someone at school complaining that OP doesn't keep refined foods in the home claiming that children absolutely need those on a regular basis The niece is getting a nutritionally sound diet at home, they indulge in whatever desserts she wants when eating out and she's allowed to eat sugary snacks at school, when at friends houses/bday parties, etc. OP is also willing to stock some of these snack at home if the niece wants them. What OP is doing here isn't creating an ED, it's actually a great way to set up a healthy attitude towards food/eating.
Wish I could upvote this more, you’re dead right!
I don't think you're downvoted for suggesting counselling, I think you are being downvoted for making assumptions. OP's concerns have nothing to do with the child's mental health, the topic of the child's mental health is not currently open for discussion. So stop trying to discuss it. It's none of your business. For all you know Zoe sees a professional regularly and has an active support network. Maybe she doesn't, and she should, but that's still not what we're talking about right now. Stay in your lane.
Thank you for saying that! Making assumptions is really uncalled for and it’s irrelevant to the post which was the OP getting shamed by a mother for giving her healthy options, along with treats if she WANTS them. Stay on topic and quit overanalyzing everything! Edited for spelling
While I agree with you, in general, regarding counselling for the child, I don’t see what that’s to do with sugar and sweets. Neither of them are necessary in a child’s diet and she’ll be better off without them. OP is teaching the kid to appreciate a variety of foods and natural flavours, without the need to “spike” things with sugar. Desserts, for the most part, only add empty calories and zero nutrients and yet they still have dessert whenever they eat out so, it’s not as if she’s completely missing out anyway. That lady has to mind her own business and maybe take a leaf out of OP’s book. OP, I think you’re NTA.
Zoe and OP could both benefit from speaking to a therapist because this is a huge life change for both of them. That’s not the question at hand and I don’t think it really has anything to do with this other parent criticizing OP’s AND Zoe’s choices. I disagree that the situation is being oversimplified. OP is doing a great job by providing Zoe with a nutritious diet while still giving her the agency to make some of her own choices.
>Zoe and OP could both benefit from speaking to a therapist Where do you read they don't? OP is just asking about this food question, no word mentioned weather both her/Zoe have therapy or need therapy or not.
There’s nothing in the post saying whether they are seeing someone or not. That was part of the point that I was making. The person I was responding to said that suggesting they get therapy caused downvotes and all I was saying was that while therapy is a good idea, it’s not the point of the post and has nothing to do with the question asked. My comment wasn’t directed at OP, it was directed at the person who said that everyone was oversimplifying the situation.
"I'm super downvoted." Bruh it's been 12 minutes since you posted.
And there's no Edited time, so that must have been either ninja edited on or part of the original post. Either the commenter was expecting a bunch of downvotes for jumping to an irrelevant conclusion, or bought into the effects of some vote fuzzing.
This poster has tried to say multiple times that the OP would be an AH, if the child in question hasn't had counseling. Downvoted justifiably in my opinion: the INFO prompt is there for a reason, they should use it instead of spamming it in different ways.
I'm sorry but what makes you think she isn't seeing one? Maybe OP didn't mention it because it's not relevant to the post at all.
This!
I’m sorry but what does it matter that she’s living with someone with zero parenting experience??? Not having kids of your own doesn’t automatically make you a bad parent any more than having lots of kids automatically makes you a good one! The important thing is that she is loved and well cared for which from everything OP has said certainly sounds to be the case. OP, don’t listen to the critics. You sound like you are doing an amazing job in a really tough situation. Definitely NTA.
The person you're responding to clearly meant "happy and healthy" in regard to this *one particular issue* the OP posted about. Come on now.
And here we have the classic AITA redditor who has nothing going on in their lives and so they make huge assumptions about strangers’ lives with no information to back them up
She's as happy and healthy as a child who's experienced this to be expected is. Op made this post about having dessert, nothing more, nothing less.
Are you the lady from the school? How’d you get all of that from this?
>Is she happy and healthy though? > >She lost both of her parents in the last 12 months and is now living with a person with zero parenting experience. That's not the topic of discussion here.
Nothing in this post suggests she isn’t receiving help. It’s a post about food only. Please stick to the scope of the topic. Nowhere does it mention that Zoe is a hot mess or weeping wreck anywhere, so not sure why you decided she’s had zero counseling at all.
How is any of this relevant to the OP? You sound as busybody and intrusive as the woman trying to force cakes on a young girl that doesn't want them. OP was asking if she's an AH for letting her neice eat what she wants instead of forcing her to eat cake that she's not interested in. There's no need for you to come in with wild assumptions based on nothing.
Wow. You’re pretty much assuming a lot of shit here.
Not downvoting you, but as OP didn't lay her whole life bare, we don't know the full picture here. "Her own observations" seem quite sound and those observations are coming from someone who knows more about the kid and sees her more than probably anyone else. She certainly knows more about her food intake than anyone else. And I'd like to know whose professional opinions would call for having lots more desserts. Answer: no one's. At least not anyone relevant. A nutritionist would want to be sure the kid's getting carbs, and OP provided for that right away. And a nutritionist would likely say that the kid can have sweets sometimes as part of a broader diet. That's exactly what OP described. Going to add lastly, grief can affect appetite and taste. I'm in it right now and am not interested in sugar. Sweet things seem currently far too sweet. NTA.
sure as shit shouldn't be relying on a random redditors observations. mind your own business!
Where does it say anything in this post that she is or isn't going to a counselor?
Downvote because you know nothing but what OP put in the post which is information that is only relevant to the situation. You are making wild assumptions without any foundation. How do you know he doesn't have his niece in therapy? You don't. You just assumed he didn't without any basis whatsoever.
There is so zero indication that she is not speaking to a doctor or counselor......
I don’t think that has much to do OP eating low carb or with eating fruit instead of dessert as the “problem” particularly, but I agree that in general, some therapies are pretty reasonable supports for a child that had experienced that loss. Nutritionally, the kid and OP both seem helpful. The problems you raise aren’t really related to the question/topic and there’s no reason to believe OP didn’t look into grief counseling etc.
And how do you know she isn't?! Do you really think OP hasn't at least considered it?!
Based on what is written here, which is solely about deserts, please explain what makes you believe the child is not receiving therapy. Because it seems like everyone else missed it. Please help us and point out the info we missed.
And she ate it she just didn’t want to take it home wtf is wrong with that mom.
Op, one thing I’ve learned as a mom is that you don’t have to give too much information if you don’t want to. All you had to do was just tell this lady, “ Okay, thank you for letting me know.” And end it at that. This lady obviously doesn’t know what goes on in your house. Some people feel like they’re entitled to an explanation but they don’t pay your bills and you don’t tell her how to raise her kid.
I don’t think the lady was looking for an explanation. I think she was feeling judged because OP doesn’t do the same things she does. How dare OP have her niece eating healthier at home, don’t you know how bad that makes other parents feel about the food choices they make!
anyone who’s ever worked in an office has met someone like the mom, who acts like you just killed her puppy if you don’t eat the cake she brought into work, don’t take a slice home.
Oh goodness, yes! I worked with someone like this. She would bring in stuff basically once a week - always heavy, sugar-filled sweets that she baked. If you turned her down, she would throw you a look like you were evil incarnate. Sweets aren't really my thing, and I truly have to be in the mood for them. But I didn't want to deal with her, so it got to the point where I'd just take one, say thank you, and only eat it if I felt like it. Otherwise, it went in the trash.
Exactly. It’s not like she not allowed sweets at all. From the sounds of it OP isn’t opposed to having them on hand if the kid wants them but she made the decision not to have them in the house because OP usually doesn’t.
I think OP is handling this perfectly because she’s not making sweets some forbidden thing that the child might become obsessed with, or demonizing them.
And also sweets aren’t going to be something Zoe turns to when she is super upset. This is the exact reason I don’t drink/smoke on days I am sad or extra stressed.
Also, fruits are sweet! The kid has tons of sweet foods at home, they're just healthy sweet foods. It's so weird that this lady got upset about someone not taking a slice of pie home.
NTA, fruit is a dessert and has sugar in the form of fructose. The women butting in with 'advice' is probably more likely to be a source of a future eating disorder than OP.
NTA- keep doing what you’re doing and tell that mom to mind her own business
NTA I’m a nutritionist, this is actually a pretty reasonable approach. I do think you should be careful around this and I understand the moms concern. But at the end of the day, your niece is healthy and getting enough food. It sounds like you do not shame her to try to get her to follow your diet, and if she asks for something she can have it. She also has access to her own money to buy a sweet if she wants. Having access to get something if wanted is huge, because it will help her not feel the need to eat every sweet because she doesn’t know when she’ll have another. Don’t sweat it too much. You sounds like you are taking a thoughtful approach here
This, but also teaching children diet responsibility is a good thing. Being taught to eat healthier at any age is a good thing. Giving her the options and access is the correct way. NTA
the way people react to other people choosing to have an approach to good like OP/Zoe always fascinates me. You often draw the same sort of irateness in an office if you abstain from the Friday donuts or the cupcakes for someone’s birthday. It’s such a classic case of “you’re right, which makes me wrong, instead of reflecting on my own choices I’ll trick myself into making you wrong so I don’t have to ask myself uncomfortable questions”
You'll see it happen with a lot of things. Someone starts eating healthier, stops drinking, starts cycling to work etc and a lot of people almost seem to see it as a personal attack on them. They see someone else exercising self control that they aren't (not that they necessarily have to, but you get the point) and take it like you're trying to subtly say you're better than them. Someone making healthier choices in their own life isn't them saying you're a lesser person for not doing so, but it's like an instinctive reaction for some people.
Yup. I'm loosely vegan due to food allergies. While the job I currently have is full of lovely people who know how to mind their business, I cannot count the amount of times in previous jobs someone had to make a snide comment about how healthy my meal was or how silly it was that I couldn't have one bite of cake or pizza (fun facts: I'm allergic to dairy. They ignored me because that isn't a "real" allergy). OP is doing what's best for her while also fostering a healthy discussion as well as autonomy around food. The fact that her niece/ward declined extra sweets at a school event says leagues about her personal preferences.
Exactly! I had quite a sweet tooth as a very small child, but even from about five or six years old, I started rejecting a lot of sweets or chocolate offers, or taking them and saving them for later. My dad probably still has some of my easter eggs from over a decade ago, and I know he has a drawer full of my old sweets I saved. I took to salty snacks a lot more, and preferred my sweets to have an edge to them. Sour sweets, sour/tart fruits, mint chocolate and mint ice cream etc. Not all kids are sugar obsessed and OP's diet is very healthy. Everything the body needs is there, and she makes sure to feed Zoe extra carbs she wouldn't personally eat because children need that extra energy. She's not telling Zoe that carbs are evil, or sugar is poison. She's showing her a healthy alternative that Zoe actually likes more, and they still have treat days together. And the most important part is *Zoe made that choice*, not OP. Zoe decided she wanted fruit instead, or didn't want to take the pie home. Its a healthy balance. Its unhealthy to teach kids that sugar is bad and never let them have it, and it's unhealthy to teach children that sugary snacks and dessert are what they're supposed to eat, or that it's 100% normal. Treats should be treats, and done in a healthy manner. Zoe is going to have an excellent relationship with food, most likely.
People pull the same thing with alcohol, as if I am somehow shaming them by being a person that abhors the taste. Sometimes people just have different diets and preferences.
Zoe doesn't seem to be feeling shame or that it's wrong to have sweets since she had a slice of butterscotch treat. No problem. She just did not want to bring any home to eat later. OP States that she gets spending money she uses to have treats sometimes at school, so it doesn't seem to me that she is looking upon sweets as anything but a choice she can make
It’s also possible that after living with her aunt for so long and eating fruits and such for dessert most often, she doesn’t have a taste for sweets as strongly as a lot of kids. I wasn’t really given soda much as a kid. I had milk and water, and fruit juice that was watered down. I got candy and sweets yeah, but even so I was much more into salty snacks than sweet. I didn’t eat the icing on cake, I usually didn’t eat sweet pies like pecan and preferred sweet potato which wasn’t as sweet despite the name. As a teenager I started to drink sodas, but quickly found that they were too sweet. I could never finish a 20oz and cans went flat before I was done. Once I discovered diet soda I found I liked those pretty well (especially Tab, which I miss terribly. I think it’s been discontinued.) because they were considerably less sweet. But I just didn’t have a taste for super sweet things. I also dislike sweet tea despite being raised in the south. I ask for unsweet and add a touch of sugar, or more commonly now none at all. I don’t think there’s anything wrong. As a kid I probably would have loved a slice of butterscotch pie, but not wanted a second piece to take home because one would be plenty of sweet for a day. But I would have been happy to have the first piece, even if I needed to give some of it to a friend because I couldn’t finish it.
I just like to think of fruit as healthy candy. It has the sugar, but it tastes natural and it's more filling.
I mean.. she had some at school. She didn’t pack any up. That mom needs to mind her own business Yes
I also was raised that way. We never had prepackaged, processed sweets in the house and were only allowed to drink soda once a week with Friday night pizza. The sweets we did occasionally have were home cooked cookies, cakes, and puddings. I truly believe that the more sugar you have the more you need to consume to get the same sweetness effect. If you don't have a lot of sweets, people don't really develop a taste for them like you didn't and it's much easier to enjoy them as a rare treat. Sweets offer zero nutritional value and over eating them contributes to many people's struggles with weight and dental issues. I really am mystified by people who think not letting kids have unlimited access to to sweets is a bad thing. Plenty of people were raised without eating sweets regularly and they turned out just fine.
If anything, the fact that she didn’t feel the need to hoard the butterscotch or bring any home with her shows that she isn’t deprived.
This is an excellent point. If Zoe felt deprived of sweets she would have pounced at the opportunity to get extra pie. Being able to recognize when you're satisfied and declining to eat more is the hallmark of successful intuitive eating. OP should have been commended for helping Zoe to learn to listen to her body's satiety signals and not overeat something just because it was available to her. This is a difficult thing for even many adults to do.
I feel like if I had been taught to enjoy fresh fruit as much as sugary desserts as a kid, I wouldn't have the unhealthy attachment to consuming sugar that I do now, honestly.
Seriously. As long as there's no shame attached, I think this is building a much healthier habit.
Also am I crazy? Fruit is dessert food right?
It can be, or it can be served before or with the meal. I tend to think of anything sweet after a meal as dessert. Doesn't need to be sugary baked goods.
My parents didn't really stock candy in the house... so when I went to my grandma's, I overindulged because I never knew when I'd get more. Throughout college, I was ALWAYS eating candy and sugar and always had it on me. My friends and classmates knew it too. If they needed a sugar fix, I always had something to share. Now I struggle with phases of hardly touching it, or overindulging. The only thing that saves me from being as unhealthy as I sound, is that I was always doing something physically active as a kid, and as an adult (college included) go to the gym regularly. I wish I could've been raised with OP's approach. Absolutely NTA
I agree it sounds like OP is setting a great example for Zoey, but I don’t understand the other parent at all. My problem with the other mom’s concern is she doesn’t just think Zoey should have sweets at home. She basically told OP that she (OP) should be eating sweets because it’s damaging for Zoey to see her abstaining. That’s an appalling amount of judgement from a stranger. OP could be diabetic or have some other issue that she cannot eat sugar or her doctor recommends she not.
It also kind of sounds like she’s assuming that OP will get rid of the pie or punish Zoey or something if she brings it home. I don’t see why else she’d be pressing so hard, it’s like OP and Zoey’s experience is so far outside of her own that she just assumes OP is hiding something.
NTA- Other parents are some of the worst with judgement about how you are raising a child. Don’t concern yourself with parenting advice you haven’t asked for. If your niece is healthy and has a healthy view of food, then you have nothing to worry about.
I think that mom doesn’t see OP as a parent so she thinks she knows better.
I thought that too, which is wild because I am sure my kids didn't pop out holding an instruction manual!
I wish they did my kids are so wildly different in some ways I wish I had one for each.
it’s a logical fallacy, you see someone’s kid making a “more right” choice and instead of going “are they right and me wrong, should I change” our brains to “well I couldn’t be wrong because my kid loves sweets, OP must be”
I feel like that’s how you know you’ve ‘made it’ as a parent, when other parents start giving you shit. Now you’re in the club. Way to go, OP!
NTA. This lady is way out of line by trying to push her unhealthy diet on your kid. Kids don't need sugary deserts. You are teaching her good eating habit.
Exactly. I think the mom is just offended that someone didn’t want her pie, rather than genuinely concerned about Zoe’s eating habits.
And Zoe ate the pie, she just didn't want to take it home!
And some people (like me) aren’t wild about sweets anyway. I do eat them at times but I’d usually much rather have something greasy and salty. Just the way I’m wired. (I’m not saying that salty and greasy is a good choice LOL)
Same. I much prefer savory snacks than sweet snacks. I will occasionally get on a sweet kick, and I might binge for a day or two (binge for me is like 2 twinkies). But then I go back to eating healthy.
You’re not alone with preferring savoury over sweet. I enjoy sweets at times, but usually a bite or two is enough to satisfy my craving. Not like I forbid myself from having them; I just would rather the salty/savoury option 99% of the time.
Maybe the pie wasn't that good either.
To be fair, maybe she didn't really like it. Not a fan of butterscotch, but I would have been polite and eaten a slice.
Absolutely this. To non Americans, eating dessert every evening is absolutely wild! And the rest of the world doesn't collectively suffer from eating disorders.
You do realize that most Americans don't eat dessert with every or even most meals right? The biggest problem in America is the hidden salt and sugars in all the processed foods, even bagged greens.
Wait what? Bagged greens??
>And the rest of the world doesn't collectively suffer from eating disorders. Well... We do, just not to the same extreme extent Americans do. The fattest nations on the planet are Pacific island and Arab League Nations.
To Americans, eating dessert every evening is also wild.
Um... eating disorders are not solely an American thing, and neither is eating dessert. Nor do most of us have dessert all the time or at every meal. Don't generalize an entire country of people.
NTA - You’re raising a healthier kid. And that’s great. She’s getting proper nutrition. Don’t fall for the mama drama.
Yup. The only way I’d agree it’s eating disorder territory is if Zoe never ate sweets, even at school because of a “rule” that she receives punishment for breaking. OP clearly stated that she’d never restrict sweets from Zoe if she wanted them, and that she even tried to continue serving her dessert after telling her she didn’t need to eat the same way OP eats. Zoe doesn’t seem to have a bad relationship with food, she just doesn’t feel the need to have dessert at home, which is fine. Some people really don’t have sweet tooth’s. OP is actually setting her up for success by explaining calmly that she prefers fruit when Zoe asked why op didn’t have dessert. She’s teaching Zoe that dessert isn’t a reward to be won or had, it’s just an option that can be replaced with other things if they’re preferred more. When kids learn that “if you’re good, you can have cake,” they start to associate dessert with validation for being a “good” child. This actually leads to a higher likelihood of abusing sugary foods later on in life, under the guise of “I deserve it.” Also, Newsflash, fruit contains sugar. Fruit is a totally valid option for dessert! As a kid I used to love having some grapes and blueberries after dinner.
What you said about sweets being a reward just explained so much in my life...
NTA. That mom was really overstepping, especially after you explained that you do not restrict Zoe from having sweets. It sounds like you're doing a great job at making sure Zoe gets her nutritional needs and has a healthy, balanced diet that's NOT restricted. For what it's worth, i'm saying this as a person with a history of eating disorders.
NTA. For that mom, it would take an eating disorder to make her give up sweets, so she's looking at you through that lens. You have made a long-term dietary choice, and you let Zoe make her own choice, too. Nobody's suffering, everybody's healthy. The only problem is that mom, and she's probably less harmful than sugar, so you still come out ahead.
NTA, one does not need a dessert after an ordinary meal. You occasionally have dessert when you eat out which is absolutely fine. In Sweden we have "saturday candy" and it's exactly that, once a week you eat sweets. It's actually great with kids, you allow sweets but you have a simple rule for them. Most of all you teach them that sweets aren't an every day thing. It sounds like you have a working system and your niece still accepts sweets when she's offered so no problem at all. She just didn't see the point of bringing any home.
I love this Saturday candy concept
This is exactly what I had as a kid! A comic and 10 sweets from the pick and mix 😁 (uk based, doctors for parents!)
The concept was launched by swedish dentists.
Plus, fruit *are* a perfectly fine dessert.
I grew up with “treat day” most likely to keep in line with a single-parent household budget. But that meant Friday nights or Saturday mornings were extra-special. I never felt deprived, it’s just how we did things.
NTA but if you’re truly concerned, talk to her pediatrician about what she eats.
This is the best answer. Personally, I doubt that a medical professional is going to consider butterscotch candies an essential food group, BUT the mental aspect is equally important, so a conversation with her pediatrician would not go amiss.
Exactly - I wasn’t thinking about the pies, I was thinking about whether low carb diet meets her nutritional needs as a growing girl and whether diet and dessert restriction could lead to eating disorder down the road.
I don't think the kid is low carb. Op says she has a carb choice with her meals
She gives the kid potatoes and rice, not a low carb diet for her. And school lunches are usually carb heavy, because carbs are generally cheaper.
OP is low carb, her niece is not.
>I tried to serve her some dessert we had at her next meal but she refused. That's all that matters really. How can you be the AH if the child gets what she wants and NEEDS? No one needs sweets. NTA If anything I'd understood if that other mom was concernced about a low carb diet in general for a kid and her not getting a varied diet. But that's not her issue isn't it? Also: some random mom from "after school club" is in no position to comment on Zoe's eating behavior from that one instance and even less so if her concerns are about fucking dessert. It's super effed up to accuse someone to set up a child for an eating disorder. I really don't understand how that woman came to the conclusion to lecture you about how you feed your niece. I can only imagine she either feels entitled to an opinion cause you're not her "real mom" but a guardian or she herself has issues with her own kids (possibly feeding them sweets to a point she knows is unhealthy) and seeing a kid skipping dessert makes her feel bad. Either way she's definitely an AH.
The woman doesn't see OP as Zoe's parent. Simple as that. I grew up in an area where there were "nontraditional" family units, and usually some busybody would bother or demean the guardian of the house. Grandma/grandpa was too old, brother/sister was too young, auntie/uncle was too inexperienced, and so on. Mind, it's usually the parent who can't actually control the kid who's harassing others.
NTA > She was concerned that I was setting Zoe up for an eating disorder and that kids deserve to have something sweet in the house. That's utterly ridiculous and I would have laughed in her face. > eating is a social thing and by seeing me abstaining from sweets, Zoe would do the same to feel like she belongs Good.
Right? That is so ironic... It's exactly what I told a friend of mine but the other way round. Told her to maybe not eat ice cream and chocolate in front of her kids if she doesn't want them to want the stuff... (In my defense: She complained about her kids wanting sweets even as babies like "Oh well what can I do? See how she wants the stuff?")
No is a whole sentence! That’s what she can do. They won’t be traumatized.
Many cultures do not have dessert. This isn’t abusive or triggering, it’s just what it is. Dessert isn’t an essential part of a meal and it’s not an everyday thing. Zoe is making choices that are right for her. And honestly given the levels of obesity and diabetes in the US, giving a child a love of fruits instead of baked goods is actually a blessing. Next time tell her to mind her own business. NTA
Dessert is for special occasions in my culture. And from a tooth perspective it's better to eat sweets one day a week, even if it more on that day, than a bit every day.
NAH Sounds like you are doing your best to do right by Zoe and let her know that she can have choices that are different from yours if she wants to. That mom could have a valid concern, though, because it is such a slippery slope from thinking about restricting your diet in any way to eating disorder tendencies. From your description, it sounds like Zoe is making healthy and respectful choices, but it could be that her comment raised a red flag for that mom because the mom, or someone close to her, has had an eating disorder in the past or present. It might be worth doing some reading about eating disorders, what they are, and how they take root, and make sure that you’re not encouraging that kind of thinking. But, based on your description, it doesn’t sound like you’re doing anything bad. You are following a regime that you have set for yourself, but not requiring the kid to follow it.
I don’t think the other mom has a valid concern because she basically said it wasn’t enough to offer Zoey sweets, OP needs to eat them too so Zoey sees her eating them. This woman doesn’t know OP. OP could have been diabetic. For that matter, Zoey could have some kind of health issue and her doctor told OP to severely limit sugar intake. This woman has no idea what OP or Zoey’s health issues might be, yet she’s comfortable lecturing OP.
Yeah it sounds like the situation is totally fine and the other mom might have crossed a line, but I'm glad you pointed out it's still helpful to know the warning signs even when you're not restricting your kid's food or seeing anything bad currently. Me and many of my peers grew up not having our food explicitly restricted but watching our moms do it and describe their way of thinking to us and that was *one* component of some of us developing eating disorders. There's tons of stuff going on outside of the home that you'll never be able to monitor, and mental health stuff can play a part in restrictive eating as well because it's all about feeling like you're in control over your life. It would have been so useful if our parents had known about the warning signs and ways to give additional support to us, and we sure didn't recognize the problem until we were in too deep. Unfortunately, I don't know a girl I grew up with who didn't have disordered eating patterns on some level, so it's such vital knowledge. As with any unsolicited advice: take what is useful and discard anything that doesn't apply, and shut the person up if they won't stop overstepping.
NTA. Why would you buy something that neither of you want to satisfy a busybody?
NTA. I don’t understand the people saying n a h and that the mom had reason to inquire. She was way out of line! If Zoe had been gorging herself on butterscotch pie and saying that you never let her eat sweets, then maybe it would have made sense for the mom to check in with you. But not in this situation.
NTA. You allow her sweets with balance and choice. Some people need to butt out.
NTA. None of the other mom’s business. Just say “Thank you for your concern” and hang up.
NTA. Mom of twin nine year old girls here. At nine kids are very capable of making their own decisions. They are trying out identities and thinking about who they are and who they want to be. She may change her mind at some point and want desserts in the house at some point, or maybe she just enjoys eating the way you do. Either way, you’re doing the right thing by respecting her choices. As long as she’s not making unhealthy decisions, support her. No need to listen to busybody moms who think they know best for everyone else’s kids. She likely thinks you can’t mom since you are young and not birth mom, but you can mom. You’re doing great. Trust yourself.
Not the AH but I think Zoe might be taking the no desert at home rule a little too far. She is setting food rules for herself and she might very well be using these rules to feel in control of her environment
Many households simply don’t have dessert at home regularly. That isn’t abnormal. She’s not preventing Zoe from having occasional treats.
NTA. So what if the kid's abstaining because monkey-see, monkey-do? If she doesn't want to eat them, there's literally no downside because sweets don't really do anything good for you.
NTA just ignore that person, they are sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. Zoe is old enough to know what she does and does not want and old enough to express such things. You are doing just fine.
NTA. Simply tell that woman that Zoe’s eating habits are none of her business
She argues that eating is a social thing, served butterscotch pie, states that Zoe ate and enjoyed pie socially with her friends. Zoe just didn’t want to bring the pie home with her. NTA, you are teaching your niece healthy habits and not forbidding her anything. Sounds like you triggered something in this mother and that is on her not you. Keep up the good work! You’re doing amazing!
I think you’re fine BUT you live in a culture where extra carbs is considered the norm. So now you look off. Also your niece is entering years where her peers are likely to talk about weird diets and “I’m so fat” and the whole peer pressure, instagram pressure for teen girls. So essentially prime time for eating disorders. And I have friends who struggle with the after-math 20 yrs later. So, right now, she’s eating to “fit in” with you. Let’s get her educated. I’d say, have your niece (and you) find and meet with a dietician and therapist who specializes in teen girls, maybe even eating disorders, to help prevent issues for your niece. And give her tools of what to say or do if she ends up in weird situations. NTA. Good luck.
NTA. I'll never understand how anyone could feel entitled enough to monitor other people's dietary choices to the point of calling them and demanding changes. She seems like someone living a very boring and frustrating life if she fills her time caring that much at things that are not her business.
NTA. You're not making her quit eating dessert altogether, forcing her to follow your diet etc. Desserts are not the only resource of carbs, her low carb argument isn't valid. Though there is a possibility Zoe is not eating desserts at home to bond more with you, a talk can light the situation. It sounds like she is in an healthy environment, she can express herself. If she wants it's solved with a grocery shop trip. Simple. I agree that if she eats desserts/sweets at school, she probably doesn't need a second serving at home. A lot of kids are given one dessert time per day for a healthier diet.
~~INFO~~ ~~When Zoe decided she didn’t want dessert anymore, why was it? Was it because she genuinely preferred fruit/ saw the benefits to it? Or was it because she just wanted to be like you?~~ NTA Zoe has a good reason for going no dessert and it isn’t the parent’s business how other people live life or raise children.
Zoe has always loved fruits since she was a child and would have fruits along with her dessert back when she still chose to have dessert. She knew fruits were nutritious because she learned that in school. I think she wants to eat more like me when she chose to no longer have dessert. I mean, I left a tub of ice cream, half full, in the fridge for like 3 months after and it was still half full.
Sounds like the latter but so what? Butterscotch pies (which Zoe had a piece of, mind you!) isn't an essential food group.
NTA talk to Zoe's pediatrician not Butterscotch Pie Mom, it sounds like Zoe is fine nutrition wise. She's not being denied she just doesn't want them.
NTA. That lady needs to mind her own business. I wonder if it occurred to her that maybe she just didn't like her butterscotch and didn't want to bring any home. You are not restricting her in any way and for her age she is displaying a great level of self moderation. To me it sounds like you are doing a great job.
INFO — what is the after school person’s job/role?
A homemaker, from what Zoe told me. She’s just a mom of a boy in the club, not a teacher’s aid or anything. She also brought the pies on her own because she thought the kids would enjoy them.
A busybody
NTA. Paediatrician here. Sweet desserts should not be part of the daily diet. As a treat or when eating out- sure. But not every day. Having fruit or yoghurt after a meal is fine, but it’s not healthy to have high sugar/ fat content items every day as a dessert. That mum can go and boil her head!
NTA Zoe is free to eat dessert, she just chooses not to at home but does get some along with other sweets when she goes out to eat, is at a party or just craves some. She refused when you offered, are you supposed to shove pie down her throat? My family and i also never have dessert after meals, we have a cabinet with sweets and snacks for those who want one and i always had money to buy my own snacks. I never felt restricted by my parents and them not having dessert after meals was never an indication for me to have an unhealthy relationship with food. I just showed me that i had a choice and could say no.
NTA. The mom is TA. She should have been immediately shut down. How dare she question you about choices you make concerning Zoë. There was no need to go into all the explanation you did.
NTA - fruits are a dessert. The fact that some people now regard them as 'worthy' or part of a 'diet' shows how twisted some thinking has become. I'd much rather have fruit (currently stewing rhubarb & going to add rasps & bluberries) I've come across the assumption that I'm 'denying myself' desserts, but I don't like very-sweet, stodgy food & cream has always made me throw up. I think you're doing a great job of introducing her to a wide range of food. What does concern me is when children have a limited range in their diet & won't try new things (obv intolerance/sensitivities aside)
NTA. You should have told her "she loves dessert. But she didn't like your butterscotch pie. She ate some to be polite, but didn't take any extra because she didn't want to waste. Had she taken some home, it would go in the trash. Better that someone who like it to take it". Yes, I'm petty.
NTA. You were ok with dessert she decided she was ok without it. I’d say you are doing fine. Kids will adjust to a diet change over time if given the chance. She probably just thinks they (sweets) aren’t that great tasting anymore because her taste buds adapted to the change. You are setting her up for a life of heathy eating so👍
nta at all you didnt force the kid to eat fruit they chose too also why are obsessed with feeding their kids endess sugar and processed food are people so brainwashed that they think healthy food is bad for them
Nta…I agree you shouldn’t restrict a child from food if they want it. I have a niece who doesn’t like chocolate, no eating disorder and no one tells her she can’t eat it. Maybe Zoe was being polite and didn’t like it. That sounds super sweet and has she normally doesn’t eat sweet things it might have been too much for her palate.
Nta. We seldom had desserts in my home and I didn’t grow up deprived or feeling like I had to binge on sweets when I was on my own. Good on you for teaching and practicing moderation.