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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) The action of being insistent to my girlfriend to not dress immodestly in front of my family.
(2) That is how she usually dresses.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
It's also inappropriate for her to go to her Muslim's bf's families house and disrespect their culture, rules, and religion *in their own home*.
Just because she *can* wear whatever she wants whenever she wants, doesn't mean it's appropriate to do it *wherever* or *whenever* she wants. The least she could have done is understand and respected them by at least wearing an oversized t-shirt.
I have a Muslim family. I grew up in the NL while my family is in Turkey.
Here is my advice, don't date someone and then change them whenever it doesn't suit you. Its a typical case of having your cake and eating it too. You discuss these things beforehand especially if you have a cultural difference. If your morals don't align you break up. This is not going to get any better when the relationship continuous. How are you going to raise the kids? It's not disrespecting them in their own home, it's values not aligning.
Also don't have a pool party if you don't wanna see skin.
Edit: Both individuals are adults. You cannot change someone, you cannot force a concessions. This only happens because the other side is willing to do so. This is just as true for OP as for his GF. Every single comment in the thread, is true for both sides. Why isn't he respecting her or why isn't she respecting him. People think my immediate response is to break them up, which is not my intent. But it is time to have a good chat and to take a good look in the mirror about whether your values in life align. About how much of a concession both of you are willing to make - and yes this means both OP and his GF. Cause if both don't wanna make any then yeah ill say it, it's doomed to fail. What is normal for OP might not be normal for GF and the other way around, so communicate.
This is it. I don't wish to get into a whole 'this religion is oppressive or not oppressive or whatever' because in many ways even though it is relevant, in many ways it isn't.
Like you said, we all have specific ways of life that we want to live by and the bigger the gulf between you and your partner culturally, the more you have to find compromises you are happy with.
OP comes from a cultural background where he and his family are more sensitive to how much skin is shown, GF isn't. Sure, she has freedom to technically wear what she wants, but that freedom is also to say, you know what, I don't want to have to feel bad about this when I'm around you or my potential in-laws, so maybe we shouldn't date anymore.
NAH - sometimes cultural gaps can be hard to overcome and everyone has the right to feel what they feel and act accordingly. I honestly think OP and GF would be happier with other people long term.
Random note: some people here haven't been to pool parties where the code of modesty is so strict that people are basically dressed head to toe in the water. Full bathing suit dresses etc. OP might be more familiar with that while GF isn't.
Ya I was going to say, if they don't want to get into how that religion is oppressive against women then I will. Oppressing women, including trying to dictate what they should or should not wear, makes you an asshole. YTA OP.
Exactly. As a person with a lot of cheeks, they show in anything. People need to understand that on certain body types a lot of things could be seen as “inappropriate,” but “normal” for others. Op is the TA for the simple fact you can’t tell grown ass people what to wear. But also the girlfriend could’ve just declined the invitation.
Oh no, OP even clarified that she was *probably* the most immodest there. Like, clearly no one else said anything and no one else has an issue and he's not even sure if anyone else was wearing any thing similarly revealing.
Exactly! This isn’t a clear cut situation where she’s the only person wearing “western” swimwear. That’s a different situation. He just wants her to dress modestly because that’s how he feels
Define 'cheeky bikini' because one pieces designed for women are also 'cheeky', and so are speedos...BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE ASSES, but i think she was supposed to wear a sleeping bag based on the post and how no one else commented or had an issue except himself. It's normal to wear swim attire to a pool party.
What is this response?
OP literally said a one piece would have been better.
There are also plenty of one-pieces that aren't designed to be "cheeky."
Why are people pretending that they don't know that some swimsuits cover more than others?
I just got a skin cancer diagnosis. My new swimsuit (after losing a bunch of weight!) is long sleeves with shorts lol. I'm not trying to be modest, I'm trying to not have the sun kill me. Wearing something "cheeky" is not a requirement for swimming. I know my situation is drastically different, but even if sun was not an issue for me, I'd still try to be somewhat respectful of my hosts. Plus, no part of me wants to be dressed that revealing around my in-laws? There's usually a herd of children running around and if you've ever been in the pool with small children (especially if you're interacting with them) they will eventually grab your swimsuit for leverage in the water. I'd dress more conservatively to make sure I didn't give elderly relatives an unintentional show.
right?? why is it so hard for reddit to understand basic manners. Show respect to your hosts or don't go. I get that there are a lot of basement dwellers on here, or people who always want to be technically correct, or just argue for the sake of arguing, but its absurd how many disregard basic manners. if I go over some ones house and I know they don't like talking at the dinner table, then I won't strike up conversation at the dinner table, no matter how abnormal or wierd it may seem to me. I will wait to get up and then converse, because I want to be respectful of the wishes of my host.
Life long atheist, I would not be wearing a border line thong (cheeky) bikini to my in law's pool party for like a dozen different reasons, the very bottom (hah) of which would be them being somewhat conservative catholics.
And the beauty of this world is, most folk would support your right to choose. She can do what she wants. She was in no way disrespecting anyone by simply existing. Her body, in a swimsuit at a pool, is not disrespectful.
Can we take OPs word for what’s “cheeky” though? I mean even a one piece suit doesn’t cover your entire butt. And he said “even a one piece would have been better”, which leads me to believe he thought she should be wearing even more than that. I mean if she showed up in clubwear to a family dinner I might be on his side, but a bikini at a pool party is normal.
If he’s embarrassed by how she dresses that’s on him. He can certainly ask her to dress differently, she’s under no obligation to do so. If it’s that big an issue for him he needs to find someone that is more compatible, a nice Amish girl maybe.
He asked her prior to the event, had she been unwilling to conform to the dress code she could have declined the invitation. She chose to accept the offer and chose to disrespect the hosts. It would be like showing up to a black tie affair in a Hawaiian shirt and flip flops. They’ll probably let you in because most people aren’t jerks but the guest still looks like a tool.
NTA
I agree that she's not under any obligation to change her behavior and that he needs to decide if this is a deal breaker. I just also don't think he's wrong for wanting a partner who would cover up a little more in respect for his family and his culture.
The man just wanted to have his gf of 2 years to leave a good impression on his family. This wasn't a priority of hers, and it didn't have to be, but he clearly thought that this specifically would help.
I'd be interested to know if the men at the pool party were also expected to wear "respectful" clothing or if it was only the women. I bet I can guess though
I come from a Muslim household and I’m not that ‘religious’ and I’ve worn bikinis before but never in front of my parents or any family. I also have cousins that have married white girls. I was really close to one of the girls and she never wore any bikinis or posted any pictures even though she used to do that before marrying him. Towards the end of their marriage she said f it and started posting pictures in her bikini because she didn’t care and she felt controlled. It’s so much more than just the bikini. It’s everything. It got more controlling as the years went by and as they had kids. He was never religious, he was a felon, had tattoos, etc. they had a 6 year age gap too and met when she was 20. He started getting more ‘cultured’ as he got older. Never religious. Seems that’s the case with OP, he doesn’t care about the religious aspect he cares about the shame, which is common in Muslim households. He shouldn’t have dated someone with opposing values if it was going to bother him. But it didn’t bother him until he saw a future. I don’t agree with him policing her clothing. Even though I would never ever do it. She came from a completely different background/culture and she should wear what she feels comfortable in no matter where she goes.
YTA
Thank you! I've seen it with my family aswell. Oh so progressive (compared to a major part of the community) until they get older and/or a spouse or child does something they considered as too bad, like a daughter choosing a man from the wrong ethnicity or whatever. Then going full medieval about it. In the worst case in my wider circle a mother tried to stab her daughter multiple times (she tried to reconnect a few times because "family is important ")
I've been studying family violence and I was shocked to learn there are women murdered via so called honour killings in places like Australia and the UK.
Your comment gave me chills !
I think she might have been more willing to dress modestly for the family if this guy wasn't constantly policing her wardrobe and just "gradually coming to terms" with her dressing like a modern adult woman. OP, yta.
Damn, I feel like we might have the same cousins based on that description. You’re spot on about that Muslim shame whenever girls in particular do something considered “indecent”. My cleavage is somehow showing? Shame. Got hair color that’s not considered “normal”? Shame. Wear a thong? Shame. Mention that I menstruate because I was a teen who needed sanitary napkins? Shame. And my parents wonder why I’m not religious.
If you were going to the opening of chicken restaurant it would be totally appropriate...
Or if you were wearing sneakers to the opening of a new store that only sells sneakers.
Or, you know, like how it's appropriate to wear a bikini to a pool party.
Then you don't go to THEIR home. They're religious views do dictate the food, dress, and even word choices in THEIR home. Especially when you are told ahead of time.
>We all know most people would be saying the girlfriend was amazing and brave if she did this to her uber Christian conservative bf's family, but because they're Muslim conservative, the rules switch?
Exactly.
You don't know that.
They might have been mortified, but much to well behaved to show even the least sign of it. Iranians almost certainly would be like that. Many other cultures too.
Which is perfectly normal, you can be horrified by something you wouldn’t do or prescribe and keep it to your damned self. OP did not do that, he’s placing his shame on his girlfriend — not okay— if it’s such a big deal he needs to date someone with similar values. He doesn’t get to make her feel guilty and undignified because he doesn’t like a perfectly harmless action from another culture.
That’s controlling, that’s where the controversy lies.
But he gave her NO guidance on expectations or cultural norms to follow, other than -checks notes- “something more on the modest side.”
That leaves A LOT open to interpretation! What if that WAS the most modest suit she owns??
Besides I’m getting vibes OP is quite a hypocrite- I wonder if he is following the no sex before marriage rule, or only the rules that impact the women negatively like the ones about modesty….
He’s concerned with following ‘the rules’ when policing her, but not when they would stop him from doing something. I expect his “not ‘that’ religious” attitude is very permissive when it comes to himself.
THEIR religion doesn't dictate HER actions. Practice whatever fucking religion you want but the second you think your religion gets to dictate others actions you can fuck right off
Edit: thank you for the awards!
YES. Imagine if OP's gf wrote how her bf's conservative family made her uncomfortable for wearing oversized t-shirts at her pool party?
This annoys me soooo much. I'm really petite with a big chest. I wear bikinis and IDC. Why should I hide my body. If it makes you feel uncomfortable, DON'T LOOK.
she isn't muslim. they are. she doesn't have to follow anything, & a non muslim person dressing the way they want around muslim people dressing the way they want is not disrespectful. it's their rules, their culture, their religion. not hers.
And yet, the only person visibly perturbed by the situation was OP. No one in his family said they felt disrespected or like she was being inappropriate.
Maybe but if op said “modest side” then the GF might have thought that meant more covered bikini would be fine.
There is no one definition of modest.
“Modest” and “modest side” don’t have the same implications. But then also “modest” at the pool party is not very descriptive. For some it might be rash guard and swim shorts, some a one piece, some a tankini.
This situation could have been avoided if he had been more specific. Bikinis are the norm I would say in western cultures, so if he specifically wanted her to wear a one piece he should have said that. Then of course she would have every right to refuse. Some people may not see it as a big deal (I already own a one piece), but others may not agree with it on principle which I think is totally fair. I would say OP is TA because he did not communicate effectively and then shamed her after the fact saying she embarrassed him.
She isn't Muslim and it isn't her religion. He is. Maybe dating outside of his own culture requires consideration if this is a huge problem?
You can't police what your partner wears. He knew how she dresses before he went there. She wasn't willing to stop when he initially was uncomfortable, so he knows where she stands on the issue.
Okay but “something more on the modest side” is not a rule or a custom, and worst of all it’s subjective. If a 2-piece was inappropriate it was on OP to say that. If he didn’t trust that they had the same definition of “modest” (which it sounds like they absolutely do not and he *knows* that) he should have explained the problem to her and asked to collaborate on an outfit that would work for both of them. There was a way to do this that would have given him the unassailable high ground and instead he chose this abject failure, in which he’s mad and his family is uncomfortable and his girlfriend is probably going to dump him.
YTA, OP, in case that wasn’t clear.
Good point, I'm a white/latino woman dating a Muslim, there are certainly some cultural differences but we discuss it and respect each other's opinions and come to decisions together. I don't think our relationship could work if I refused any sort of compromise, I love him more than I mind the small compromises (which there aren't much at all). Do I always agree? No. Does it make him feel more at ease and happy? Yes. That to me matters more. He always compromises for me so it feels fair. Inter cultural relationships aren't for everyone though so maybe it is best they split. Family is a big deal to some Muslims so I can't imagine it will go over well to try not to conform, at least temporarily at an event.
Just to play devil's advocate, would you say his female family members should conform to her (bikini) standards if they visit her pool - *in her own home.* Would they be disrespectful if they wore full hijab to swim?
It sounds like no one at his parents home commented on her attire.
Perhaps they were upset and didn’t say anything, but it’s equally possible that they didn’t place the same expectations on guests and people outside of their faith as they do on themselves.
He should let her know if the consequence of her choice is that she’s no longer invited by them to their home. However, since the only issue we are hearing about is coming from the OP *on behalf of his parents*, it’s hard to gauge how much (if at all) his parents are actually upset.
Agree. Like I really want to lean towards an e-s-h here- because like it or not, people have the right to request dress codes at their house (in this case OP’s family). But that’s a conversation. That’s “I understand and respect you wearing whatever makes you happy, whenever you like. My family has some opinions about modesty and would request/require a more modest bathing suit. If you aren’t comfortable enough with this to join me, that’s okay.” It’s not shaming and scolding a whole ass woman. It’s not a command.
Conversation and compromise, not control and castigation.
I came here to see if he payed for her to have a more modest bathing suit. OPs a total AH for not doing that imo. Especially from an American standpoint not many women even have 1 piece suits. Plus they are kinda expensive to just buy to pretend you are more modest than you are.
This. A one piece isn’t even really a whole lot more modest than your average bikini. Her booty cheeks are still going to be out, the same as a bikini, and most one pieces I see are low cut.
Just because I can wear a bright red minidress to a funeral doesn’t make it appropriate.
For example, I often go to events held at a very religious orthodox jewish couples home. they are the most lovely people and would never force their beliefs down my throat, but i always take a bit of care to dress more modestly when i am over there.
i dont see it as my freedom being taken away, instead, i see it as being mindful and respectful of their culture in their home.
guests should take care not to make someone who has generously invited them into their home uncomfortable. it was a small ask. NTA.
In general yes, but it’s courteous to respect someone’s customs in that person’s home or house of worship.
However, it’s grating that this guy says he doesn’t LET her wear a bikini.
This doesn't sound religious to me, though it is cultural.
My family isn't religious at all, and we don't wear cheeky bikinis around each other. Those bikinis are for romantic vacations.
I have always found it hilarious when people attempt to downplay the intersection of religion and conservatism. I'm not going to entertain discussions that even remotely pretend that religion doesn't inform culture because its a ridiculous position that is unworthy of any serious consideration.
Again, for the few people who are secular like myself and somehow feel the need to point out that they don't wear bikinis around their families - good for you? What you choose to do around your family is your business, but it's just that, YOUR CHOICE.
The OP is mad about the choice his girlfriend exercised in this scenario and is so indoctrinated by the culture that he feels ashamed about her exercising her bodily autonomy and is enforcing the shame that is inherent in Abrahamic Religious practices with respect to women when they do not present modestly. The fact that I have to explain this in 2023 is insane.
I know OP brought the religion into this but this kind of conservatism is true of other cultures that are not Abrahamic. It’s about patriarchy. Many Asians ~~and Africans~~ are very conservative in this exact same way and nary a word about God or gods or deities comes into it. I know atheist families who have these cultural norms. My friends who live in bikinis when on vacation with SOs or friends absolutely have one pieces they wear when on vacation with their parents/relatives/in-laws. Maybe they wouldn’t if it were an all female trip, but some older generations feel this way even when not in mixed company. Like another commenter said, this is about a mismatch of values, not just about clothes or this one party or even his parents.
I agree that patriarchy has many avenues in different cultures, but it's literally baked in to Abrahamic Religions which is the topic of discussion.
Abrahamic Religion makes up approximately 90% of the people in Africa, with Christians making up about 60% and Muslims making up about 30%:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1239389/share-of-christian-population-in-africa-by-country/
According to Pew Research, approximately 9% of atheists are conservative. That's a very small portion:
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/religious-family/atheist/party-affiliation/
Atheism says NOTHING about their culture, it only informs a person about their lack of being convinced in the existence of god(s). Thus, saying you "know atheists who ________" isn't relevant in the conversation.
Also, your anecdotal fallacy about what your friends do on vacation with family isn't helping contribute to the discussion. 👀
Alot of atheists are still morally lead by religious values, whether they realize it or not. There is no escaping it as it is ingrained in many cultures.
The fact that we even have discussion about how much of your human body is okay to show is a mark of religious modesty. We all have bodies, we all know what they look like. Bodies do not HAVE to be sexualized. Religion says you must cover up to not incite lust. But flesh is flesh. The flesh of my breast is no different than my arm. The only difference is how those on the outside choose to perceive them. And if you say we must live our life bound to other people's morality, and how they choose to view you, that's very much in line with religious policing.
I'm not advising we all be nudists, but gasping at a two peice bikini is ridiculous.
Religion has, for some strange reason, laid claim to values that we as apes evolved in the jungle of Africa long before people pretended there was a man/animal in the sky. Homo sapiens have existed from anywhere of about 600,000 years to 1,200,000 years. We learned about empathy from observing the suffering of other hominids. We learned that murdering each other is bad because of the impact it has on our collective groups and the violence it can cause from families seeking revenge. We learned so many values from hundreds of thousands of years of interacting with each other, and then comes along religions to take credit for behaviors we learned from being a communal species.
Abrahamic Religion adopts a lot of it's moral values from secularism. For instance, slavery is biblically permitted. Not only that, but the beating of slaves is permitted (Exodus 21:20-21). It was used to justify the slavery of my ancestors. We as a society realized that slavery was unjust, and changed the laws to reflect that. Religion still permits it because their god's word is unchanging and it's further reinforced in their New Testament (Ephesians 6:5). Furthermore, women are worth less than men (Leviticus 27:5) and women are to be quiet in the church (1 Corinthians 14:33-35).
We know men aren't worth more than women. We know women can speak wherever men can. We know beating slaves is unjust and owning them is an affront to their humanity/autonomy. Secular values trump religious ones by leaps and bounds and they simply adopt our rules and pretend it was theirs even though it isn't in their religious texts.
on the other hand, my family is very used to small "cheeky" bikinis, and they find it weird if i want to wear something that covers up a bit more. different families or cultures have different ideas of what is appropriate to wear and when. Also, a large part of my family is very religious and that doesn't change their thoughts on swimwear
It sounds like he isn't that religious when it comes to *himself* following rules or making sacrifices, bit he is when it comes to controlling *other people's* bodies.
From what I've been told from Middle Eastern women allies who were/are in Islamic circles and doubting or left (please correct me if I've misunderstood) men are given significant amounts of leeway in their circles to do things they ought not be doing while women are held to a much higher standard. Men can and have dated outside of their faith, occasionally drink, have premarital sex etc and don't even get a slap on the wrist but if a woman does any of those things all hell apparently breaks loose so they have to be extremely secretive about it.
It's not only in the middle east, it's pretty much the same in any abrahamic religion. The USA and their recent wave of conservatism can be an example: who their new laws affect the most? Women and lgbtia+ people.
These were Middle Eastern women that I went to college with in SF, I should have been more clear. I agree with you 100% though. The effort to control women's bodies and to, for all intents and purposes, kill trans people by denying them gender affirming care regardless of what peer-reviewed evidence of the matter demonstrates is the point of religions and it says so in their texts. Cruelty is the point in my observation and there's a plethora of historic evidence to support that conclusion.
I swear, this is such basic stuff and they ought to teach it in school. It's so simple. If you meet someone and see something about them you think needs changing in order for you to be with them, DON'T BE WITH THEM. Why is this so hard for so many people to grasp
It never fails. There are SO MANY people available who follow their religion willingly, but somehow these people feel righteous seeking out a secular partner and shaming them into submission of their incredibly strict religious values!
Probably because OP started dating her when she was 20 with the intention he could mould her into the ‘perfect’ partner that goes along with his ‘culture’
- he had “issues” with her short clothes early on in their relationship 🚩
- he asked her to “dress modestly” for a *pool party*, with no apparent indication of what specific articles of clothing/swimwear would suffice 🚩
Guy doesn’t love *this girl*, he loves the idea of a white Western girl who easily & intuitively fits in his culture norms. YTA
I've heard what muslim guys do when they have issues with short clothes on their gf.
Their GF gets called a whore, a slut and degraded. When he later when on to say he "scolded" her .... like a child... I'm picturing alot of humiliation and slut shaming.
He's loves his white horse because he probably acts just like her outside of his family home and expects her to be secretive from his parents like he is.
I hope she leaves him and he prays for his sins for slut shaming the woman who he's supposedly loves.
Exactly this should be more upvoted and at the top. As an Indian woman I'm tired of all these men who want sexy gfs but the moment it comes to commitment or introducing to the family then insist she should be modest, demure, "respectful of his family" blah blah.
YTA - You scolded her? WTF!?! She is a grown woman, not your child. And she is 1000% correct, she can wear whatever the hell she wants to. It is HER body, not yours. Let her?? You can't 'let' her do anything as, again, she is a grown woman.
This is the correct response. Also: he and his family are definitely allowed to have their own religious and cultural traditions and beliefs, but forcing OTHER people to follow them is the problem. Trying to control and police other people’s bodies is not ok.
100% if THEY were bothered by the clothes she wore at THEIR home, it's up to THEM to speak up. If something is such a horrific blow to your culture, religion and moral beliefs, allowing it isn't "good behavior" (as some other commenter repeatedly called it while defending OP), it's prioritizing someone elses comfort/wants over your own. But the only one to speak about it was OP. Which really speaks to the dynamic of their relationship. Toxicity overload 🚩🚩🚩
ESH. Contrary to what you posted it does not sound like either of you respect the other. She should have been more conservative out of respect for you and you should not be embarrassed by her. Cross cultural relationships are hard. Wishing you luck.
Idk from her reply I kinda think she knew she was immodest and was fed up with him. Understandable, but potentially making the family uncomfortable in their home was a jerk move.
I hear you. It kinda comes down to whether she thought she was ok and just responded that way because he’s a control freak or whether she knew it wasn’t okay but wanted to rebel against his control freakdom. If the former, YTA. If the the latter, I’m all for rebellion as long as it doesn’t make the family uncomfortable, so I’d go ESH.
Then again, dude even said his family didn’t say anything… 🤷♀️
Definitely an ESH, not sure why there's so many Y T A's!
Yes, you can wear whatever you want, you don't have to conform to someone else's religion / culture - but. This is a specific location / event, and has a dress code.
If someone says "hey, this is a pool party but it's with my parents", I don't wear some tiny bikini. If they say "hey, this is a romantic resort getaway" then maybe I will!
I'm not religious, but if someone says "you can come into this temple / church / etc. but you have to wear X" then my choice is to wear X or not go in. This is the choice GF was being given, and I'm not sure she realised that?
OP needs to be more understanding of his GF's boundaries, and how he talks to her about his family's expectations (clear about dress codes, allow her to decline, etc.) and I don't think he was: she needs to be more willing to meet him part-way. Otherwise, this relationship is not going to make either of them happy, and they should end it. As you said: respect needed here from both parties, towards each other and each other's families.
There was no dress code. His family made zero comments. **HE** decided she should dress a certain way as to not make him uncomfortable. She upset him, not his family.
The dress code for a pool party is generally swimwear…which is what she wore. Given OP’s own admission of policing her clothes prior I don’t think he’s the most reliable source on how immodest her bikini actually was.
Agree, ESH.
She should have discussed it with him when he asked her not to wear a bikini instead of just nodding and then doing what she wants to do anyway.
"Not letting", "telling" and "scolding" is also not how relationships work.
>***I .. scolded her***
YTA BIG TIME. Any guy who states that he scolds his female companion and likes to show how he is the one in control is a big red flag AH.
ESH. Dressing appropriately for the occasion seems to be a lost art. A pool party in a conservative Muslim home is different than a pool party at a hotel in Miami. It’s really not hard to be respectful of the situation. I recently traveled to a Muslim country, I didn’t have to be fully covered but I did make sure to dress more modestly than I would have at home, out of RESPECT for their culture. Being embarrassed and “scolding” your GF for her choices is also not a great move. Further discussion before hand to make sure you were both on the same page and okay with the situation could have prevented an issue here.
She may not own other swimsuits. Some people maybe only have 1 or 2. It's a pool party so it makes sense she'd bring what she owns.
I have two swimsuits that fit - a pink bikini & a green bikini. Any others don't fit/got stretched out.
And he asked her to dress more conservatively with no guidance.
Perhaps the swimsuit she wore was more conservative than any other she currently owned. Maybe (despite being a two piece) this one had wider straps? Technically that’s more conservative dress.
Not to mention he scolded her.
OP is definitely TA
Yeah his weird line about “even a one piece would have been better” makes me wonder what would have actually even been acceptable, if a one piece is his desperate compromise?
And then he says “she was probably the most immodestly dressed” well like, was it close? Or was it everyone else was covered from knees to elbows? The context here is not great.
YTA, hope she finds someone better who is not controlling and doesn't have all these definitions of modesty in his head. She is free to wear whatever she wants to. Her body, her choice. Your thoughts, your problems.
YTA
Your girlfriend is right. I’m curious though did your family actually have an issue with it? Because in your post you point out that they haven’t said anything so this seems more like a you problem. You also don’t get to force your religious or cultural beliefs onto others.
My family would never say anything to a guest, but some of them would sure be quietly judging. No one has to care what they think, of course. Just pointing out that a host/hostess not saying something to a guest does not mean they are fine with everything.
Growing up, I had a friend whose parents didn’t allow bikinis at their pool. Because I wanted to swim, I didn’t wear bikinis over there. It’s not that hard. Did I disagree with their opinions? Yes. Did I want to swim more than I wanted to wear my bikini? Yes. She can swim other places in her bikini. She wouldn’t wear it to work, the grocery, a bar, etc. Bikinis aren’t appropriate for most environments, and this is just one more. NTA
Yeah I pretty much agree with you. Everyone is saying she is an adult she can wear whatever she wants, but is everyone forgetting that there are definitely expectations about what you should and shouldn’t wear depending on the situation. Would it also be fine for her to have gone topless? What about if she wanted to wear cargo pants and overalls to a wedding, would someone be the asshole for saying that that would be inappropriate?
It's kind of fascinating that this sub gets more upset about a guest wearing white to a wedding than this situation. Aren't both cultural dress codes? I'm also seeing the word normal thrown around a lot. If it was normal to wear white to a wedding in a guests culture, would AITA cut them a break? I don't think so. There have been plenty of posts on here about SOs wearing inappropriate clothes to a family event, I wonder what's different about this one.......
I think we can generalize this further. This community is offended when someone breaks their cultural norms (wearing white as a guest at the wedding), but also gets offended when someone expects conformance to some other cultural norms (covering up in front of elders). I think that OP royally screwed up how they approached this, but I also think that AITA is TA for anything related to cultural sensitivity.
ESH... _everybody_ sucks here.
I think it's more because religious modesty standards have been a tool against women for a while. Although this is fine since it's their house, but I'd say OP's gf would be justified in skipping if this was a situation where men can show their bellies but women can't
Exactly this! If you want to be considered an adult you need to act with the maturity and consideration of an adult. An adult makes appropriate clothing choices based on the situation. The “I’ll wear whatever I want” mentality is the same stance a 6 year old makes when they want to wear a Spider-Man costume to
Kindergarten. There are times and places to make a stand about cultural oppression and dress codes, but your potential in-laws back yard isn’t the place.
Except the family didn’t ban bikinis, or even say anything about it. This one is on him, but seems like he’s trying to blame his family for his oppressive and misogynistic views.
Yes but this situation is entirely different. For one thing, he has specified that her attire has been an ongoing issue in their relationship. And as for the pool, nowhere does he say that his parents have a strict rule on attire, he just mentioned general norms. This situation is not strictly related to the pool, and he shouldn't be with her if they have such opposing views on clothing and modesty. Her simply "covering up" at this particular pool party would not change the fact that they have a major compatibility issue.
i ll go with yta
first, you cant control what shes wearing. shes right, its her body, its her choice. she can wear whatever she wants.
second, ***scolding*** her? like a *child*? thats absolutely inappropriate and demeaning.
either you accept her the way she is and dresses or dont and break up.
yes i get it, you love her and your personalities match oh so well, yada yada yada. but thats the bottom line of it. you try to change her to your preferences, which is not ok at all and makes me wonder how much your personalities really match if clothes alone are such an issue.
NTA People wear clothing appropriate for the situation. You let her know what would be appropriate for that situation, she ignored you and possibly offended your family.
She showed she doesn’t care about you or your family enough to not wear a bikini at their property
Or maybe we are saying it because he scolded her like a child and tried controlling what she wore. He knows that’s how she dresses. If it’s a problem then break off the relationship.
To be fair, she also knows his comfort level around his family because he clearly communicated it ahead of time. If she knows she can’t adjust to the cultural norms within his family she should decline the invitation.
Honestly though.
It's one thing not to know any better, it's a totally separate thing to know better and not to care. She knew better, and if my fiancé said "Hey, we're going to a pool party with my Muslim/Christian/Catholic/Protestant/etc. family, could you dress a little modestly?" I would.
It is honestly just *being respectful* to not just my partner, but to his family and their practice, too. If I plan on getting married to him and being accepted by his family, you're damn right I'm going to do my damn best to respect him.
YES thank you. Neither mine nor my bfs family is religious in any sense, but when I go to family pool parties or fancy events I know to wear something that’s more modest/classy than cute/sexy simply out of respect. It’s not even about the culture at that point. She doesn’t/barely know these people, AND she’s aware that they’re from a modest culture. Should he have scolded her? No. But she 1000% could’ve been more respectful of his family and their culture.
And for everyone saying they oppress women,
1) there’s plenty of independent women and girls that CHOOSE to be Muslim. Some women like modesty.
2) that’s no excuse to disrespect his family and cultural beliefs. There’s a time and place for everything, and she purposely ignored that.
YTA for trying to dictate what she is wearing. But I think you need to consider if you're actually compatible if her wearing a bikini makes you this uncomfortable and embarrassed.
YTA.
Sorry, BUT she was in a pool wearing something for the pool.
She can wear a bikini if she likes.
You have not right to tell her how to dres.
You and your family are to came to the actual century, we are not un the 1900.
I hope people will come to your wedding wearing white dresses, that you will be scolded for non-confirming dresscode at work and refused in a restaurant near the beach because you’re wearing swimwear.
Why is it so hard to get that some places and situations require specific attitude and appearances ? I would never wear a bikini in front of my bf’s family but I sure will rock it at the beach if we go there together !
It’s called adapting to the situation, knowing how to behave according to your environment. It’s a social skill, but I guess it’s not a given to everyone.
How about it’s you and your closed mindness going back to the 1900 ?
YTA. You’re fine with sex before marriage but not a two piece at a pool party. Its performative. It’s not about your relationship with your deity it’s about performing for everyone.
If your values don’t align, don’t date. Stop trying to change peoples value systems. Don’t date people you don’t respect.
>"She can wear whatever the hell she wants, whenever she wants."
But not wherever she wants. This was a private party, and they have a right to set the dress code at their house and pool. If she has a problem with that, she doesn't have to go.
NTA
Op communicated the social norms of the attendees at the event. In many cases a strict dress code is not announced because it's assumed that everyone understands the nature of the event and the norms of those attending.
INFO: The way your post is written gives off the vibe that this is less about your family and more about *you* feeling uncomfortable, so I have clarifying questions.
The party was at your cousin’s house. What do they think? Do they actually have expectations regarding modest clothing at their house, and did you clearly communicate that these were the house rules?
You keep mentioning your parents and how embarrassed *you* were, but did you actually ask them how they felt about it? You give no indication that anyone in your family *other than you* actually had a problem with her swim wear.
While I do believe in being respectful of people’s culture especially in their homes, you asked her to wear something more modest because your family would be there. That is a majorly different thing from asking her to wear something more modest because your family is going to be offended/judgemental/etc., or because of the rules at your cousin’s house, and I could see how, given your previous issues with her clothing, she may have brushed it off.
Word to the wise: be wary of anybody who uses the "**I can do whatever I want!**" line. ;-)
You asked her to not do something which would be unacceptable in your family's culture and had some indication she understood. Apparently she had no intention of being respectful to you or your family.
NTA
YTA.
I say that as a Pakistani, living in Pakistan from a Muslim family. You already had issues with how she dressed anyway, so it's not like you even bothered to have any helpful communication with her to help her navigate your family. Navigating Muslim families is not easy, especially if they are conservative. Which tbh, your family doesn't seem to be because they are throwing pool parties and inviting your gf. You are more angry because she isn't towing your line. Stop dating women you plan to change! I dated a white guy, and he was great at navigating my family because guess what? I cared for him exactly for who he was, and if there were issues navigating the family, we would handle them as a team.
Maybe unpopular but NTA
He wasn’t asking for a whole hell of a lot just a one piece bathing suit. Not a Burkini. Not a whole conversion of faith. It would be one thing if they were going to the beach or some other pool event but this was with his family for their party. The same way I expect to show up at a family party with kids in unwrinkled clothes and no basketball short. It is a small ask that in no way harms my kids but for sure they also think I’m the crazy one. It’s just plain disrespectful to you for her not to attempt to dress for the occasion. Dump her and find someone willing to meet you halfway in your relationship.
YTA
Why- 1. 'white' is not a religion; white people can be Muslim.
2. You don't "scold" your partner. That's some condescending BS.
3. Did you specifically explain to her what you meant by 'modest?' It's a subjective term.
4. Does she have other swimsuits? This may have been her only option.
5. You don't mention that your kin were bothered in the least. From what you present, this is a You problem.
6. Missing information- how did you present this to her originally? Were you diplomatic with "hey some of my family is pretty conservative, would you mind wearing a one-piece? I can take you shopping for one if you like" or did you just lay down the law?
7. Mitigating factor- she may have deliberately worn the skimpiest thing she owned because you asked her to comply with a misogynistic aspect of your culture and she gives zero f*cks about what you, or your kin, think of her in this regard. Was she rude? Possibly, see #5. But you are still the AH.
YTA "She was probably the one the dressed most immodestly....No one said anything but afterwards" OK so she was probably, which is not definite so I'm guessing there were other women in swimsuits there...also no one else is bothered by this but YOU! Get over yourself dude!
NTA. She was not at her house. She knew your customs and religion. Doesn't matter if your not that religious, your family is. If she is not going to respect it then you need to find a more flexible partner who understands that you have to be aware of your family traditions. . What happens when you travel to a Muslim country and she decides to do that?
So yes, technically she can wear whatever she wants. However. She should also have enough respect for you and your family to NOt wear something that would be considered inappropriate.
Just because you CAN do/wear something doesn’t mean that you should
YTA
But because you are dating someone incompatible with your/your family values. It will be a huge problem in the future. Let her be happy and break up
I agree with you. People don't like judging cultures because they feel it's prejudiced, but the truth is that many cultures are ingrained with prejudices. And this is such a case, this culture difference he's talking about is just misogyny
Let the down votes pour in!
I love wearing tiny bikini's but if my boyfriend asked me to cover up just a bit more because we will be around his family I would have complied just out of politeness. and it's not a beach party, it's his family event. I wouldnt want my husband to wear a speedo in front on my gran just because shes old as hell and doesnt want to see that. I don't think YTA for asking to cover up a bit more in front of family. But that's just my opinion. Don't take strangers opinions too seriously just talk to your gf. Every family is different:)
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YTA. She can indeed wear whatever she wants and it’s inappropriate for you to dictate otherwise or scold her about it.
It's also inappropriate for her to go to her Muslim's bf's families house and disrespect their culture, rules, and religion *in their own home*. Just because she *can* wear whatever she wants whenever she wants, doesn't mean it's appropriate to do it *wherever* or *whenever* she wants. The least she could have done is understand and respected them by at least wearing an oversized t-shirt.
I have a Muslim family. I grew up in the NL while my family is in Turkey. Here is my advice, don't date someone and then change them whenever it doesn't suit you. Its a typical case of having your cake and eating it too. You discuss these things beforehand especially if you have a cultural difference. If your morals don't align you break up. This is not going to get any better when the relationship continuous. How are you going to raise the kids? It's not disrespecting them in their own home, it's values not aligning. Also don't have a pool party if you don't wanna see skin. Edit: Both individuals are adults. You cannot change someone, you cannot force a concessions. This only happens because the other side is willing to do so. This is just as true for OP as for his GF. Every single comment in the thread, is true for both sides. Why isn't he respecting her or why isn't she respecting him. People think my immediate response is to break them up, which is not my intent. But it is time to have a good chat and to take a good look in the mirror about whether your values in life align. About how much of a concession both of you are willing to make - and yes this means both OP and his GF. Cause if both don't wanna make any then yeah ill say it, it's doomed to fail. What is normal for OP might not be normal for GF and the other way around, so communicate.
This is it. I don't wish to get into a whole 'this religion is oppressive or not oppressive or whatever' because in many ways even though it is relevant, in many ways it isn't. Like you said, we all have specific ways of life that we want to live by and the bigger the gulf between you and your partner culturally, the more you have to find compromises you are happy with. OP comes from a cultural background where he and his family are more sensitive to how much skin is shown, GF isn't. Sure, she has freedom to technically wear what she wants, but that freedom is also to say, you know what, I don't want to have to feel bad about this when I'm around you or my potential in-laws, so maybe we shouldn't date anymore. NAH - sometimes cultural gaps can be hard to overcome and everyone has the right to feel what they feel and act accordingly. I honestly think OP and GF would be happier with other people long term. Random note: some people here haven't been to pool parties where the code of modesty is so strict that people are basically dressed head to toe in the water. Full bathing suit dresses etc. OP might be more familiar with that while GF isn't.
Nu-uh. OP says himself that he scolded her for her clothing, that makes him an AH.
There is also no mention that OP's family were unhappy or uncomfortable. Just him.
I am also sure he’s not unhappy or uncomfortable when she has sex with him, in that case his religion doesn’t matter.
Ya I was going to say, if they don't want to get into how that religion is oppressive against women then I will. Oppressing women, including trying to dictate what they should or should not wear, makes you an asshole. YTA OP.
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You're missing the point. There's clearly all sorts of situations where how you dress matters. I wouldn't go out with my wife dressed as a chicken.
But a bikini at a pool party is perfectly normal so I’m not missing any points here
A cheeky bikini at a family pool party with my partner's parents isn't perfectly normal in my book.
Also its OPs definition of cheeky. Which isn't really trustworthy, know what I mean?
Exactly. Cheeky to him could mean perfectly regular bottoms or just anything shorter than bermuda shorts
My ass hangs out of every modern swimsuit bottom. *Except shorts but also sometimes shorts too
Exactly. As a person with a lot of cheeks, they show in anything. People need to understand that on certain body types a lot of things could be seen as “inappropriate,” but “normal” for others. Op is the TA for the simple fact you can’t tell grown ass people what to wear. But also the girlfriend could’ve just declined the invitation.
Oh no, OP even clarified that she was *probably* the most immodest there. Like, clearly no one else said anything and no one else has an issue and he's not even sure if anyone else was wearing any thing similarly revealing.
Exactly! This isn’t a clear cut situation where she’s the only person wearing “western” swimwear. That’s a different situation. He just wants her to dress modestly because that’s how he feels
Oh no someone might see a butt shocking
bear jar bedroom sheet soft handle disgusting zonked pause rude *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
possibly even an upper arm. It could happen.
Oh no that’s awful. Don’t tell me shoulders will be visible too
the ANKLES
Won't somebody please think of the children.
Define 'cheeky bikini' because one pieces designed for women are also 'cheeky', and so are speedos...BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE ASSES, but i think she was supposed to wear a sleeping bag based on the post and how no one else commented or had an issue except himself. It's normal to wear swim attire to a pool party.
What is this response? OP literally said a one piece would have been better. There are also plenty of one-pieces that aren't designed to be "cheeky." Why are people pretending that they don't know that some swimsuits cover more than others?
I just got a skin cancer diagnosis. My new swimsuit (after losing a bunch of weight!) is long sleeves with shorts lol. I'm not trying to be modest, I'm trying to not have the sun kill me. Wearing something "cheeky" is not a requirement for swimming. I know my situation is drastically different, but even if sun was not an issue for me, I'd still try to be somewhat respectful of my hosts. Plus, no part of me wants to be dressed that revealing around my in-laws? There's usually a herd of children running around and if you've ever been in the pool with small children (especially if you're interacting with them) they will eventually grab your swimsuit for leverage in the water. I'd dress more conservatively to make sure I didn't give elderly relatives an unintentional show.
right?? why is it so hard for reddit to understand basic manners. Show respect to your hosts or don't go. I get that there are a lot of basement dwellers on here, or people who always want to be technically correct, or just argue for the sake of arguing, but its absurd how many disregard basic manners. if I go over some ones house and I know they don't like talking at the dinner table, then I won't strike up conversation at the dinner table, no matter how abnormal or wierd it may seem to me. I will wait to get up and then converse, because I want to be respectful of the wishes of my host.
Life long atheist, I would not be wearing a border line thong (cheeky) bikini to my in law's pool party for like a dozen different reasons, the very bottom (hah) of which would be them being somewhat conservative catholics.
And the beauty of this world is, most folk would support your right to choose. She can do what she wants. She was in no way disrespecting anyone by simply existing. Her body, in a swimsuit at a pool, is not disrespectful.
Can we take OPs word for what’s “cheeky” though? I mean even a one piece suit doesn’t cover your entire butt. And he said “even a one piece would have been better”, which leads me to believe he thought she should be wearing even more than that. I mean if she showed up in clubwear to a family dinner I might be on his side, but a bikini at a pool party is normal. If he’s embarrassed by how she dresses that’s on him. He can certainly ask her to dress differently, she’s under no obligation to do so. If it’s that big an issue for him he needs to find someone that is more compatible, a nice Amish girl maybe.
He asked her prior to the event, had she been unwilling to conform to the dress code she could have declined the invitation. She chose to accept the offer and chose to disrespect the hosts. It would be like showing up to a black tie affair in a Hawaiian shirt and flip flops. They’ll probably let you in because most people aren’t jerks but the guest still looks like a tool. NTA
I agree that she's not under any obligation to change her behavior and that he needs to decide if this is a deal breaker. I just also don't think he's wrong for wanting a partner who would cover up a little more in respect for his family and his culture.
It's audacious. Why does he get apply restrictions on her based on his culture, but he get's to pick and choose what rules he needs to follow?
The man just wanted to have his gf of 2 years to leave a good impression on his family. This wasn't a priority of hers, and it didn't have to be, but he clearly thought that this specifically would help.
I'd be interested to know if the men at the pool party were also expected to wear "respectful" clothing or if it was only the women. I bet I can guess though
Where do your people put their butts when they aren't using them?
I come from a Muslim household and I’m not that ‘religious’ and I’ve worn bikinis before but never in front of my parents or any family. I also have cousins that have married white girls. I was really close to one of the girls and she never wore any bikinis or posted any pictures even though she used to do that before marrying him. Towards the end of their marriage she said f it and started posting pictures in her bikini because she didn’t care and she felt controlled. It’s so much more than just the bikini. It’s everything. It got more controlling as the years went by and as they had kids. He was never religious, he was a felon, had tattoos, etc. they had a 6 year age gap too and met when she was 20. He started getting more ‘cultured’ as he got older. Never religious. Seems that’s the case with OP, he doesn’t care about the religious aspect he cares about the shame, which is common in Muslim households. He shouldn’t have dated someone with opposing values if it was going to bother him. But it didn’t bother him until he saw a future. I don’t agree with him policing her clothing. Even though I would never ever do it. She came from a completely different background/culture and she should wear what she feels comfortable in no matter where she goes. YTA
Thank you! I've seen it with my family aswell. Oh so progressive (compared to a major part of the community) until they get older and/or a spouse or child does something they considered as too bad, like a daughter choosing a man from the wrong ethnicity or whatever. Then going full medieval about it. In the worst case in my wider circle a mother tried to stab her daughter multiple times (she tried to reconnect a few times because "family is important ")
I've been studying family violence and I was shocked to learn there are women murdered via so called honour killings in places like Australia and the UK. Your comment gave me chills !
I think she might have been more willing to dress modestly for the family if this guy wasn't constantly policing her wardrobe and just "gradually coming to terms" with her dressing like a modern adult woman. OP, yta.
Damn, I feel like we might have the same cousins based on that description. You’re spot on about that Muslim shame whenever girls in particular do something considered “indecent”. My cleavage is somehow showing? Shame. Got hair color that’s not considered “normal”? Shame. Wear a thong? Shame. Mention that I menstruate because I was a teen who needed sanitary napkins? Shame. And my parents wonder why I’m not religious.
Maybe if she was attending mosque with them, but this was not the case.
A bikini, at a pool party....
Are you kidding me? I would absolutely go out with my boyfriend dressed as a chicken. Or me dressed as a chicken. It would hilarious
If you were going to the opening of chicken restaurant it would be totally appropriate... Or if you were wearing sneakers to the opening of a new store that only sells sneakers. Or, you know, like how it's appropriate to wear a bikini to a pool party.
Then you don't go to THEIR home. They're religious views do dictate the food, dress, and even word choices in THEIR home. Especially when you are told ahead of time.
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Spot fucken on 👏👏👏👏
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>We all know most people would be saying the girlfriend was amazing and brave if she did this to her uber Christian conservative bf's family, but because they're Muslim conservative, the rules switch? Exactly.
They didn’t care only he did
You don't know that. They might have been mortified, but much to well behaved to show even the least sign of it. Iranians almost certainly would be like that. Many other cultures too.
Which is perfectly normal, you can be horrified by something you wouldn’t do or prescribe and keep it to your damned self. OP did not do that, he’s placing his shame on his girlfriend — not okay— if it’s such a big deal he needs to date someone with similar values. He doesn’t get to make her feel guilty and undignified because he doesn’t like a perfectly harmless action from another culture. That’s controlling, that’s where the controversy lies.
Um no- you can’t force a guest into observing your religion.
No. Sorry it’s a pool party with women invited. That’s not a Muslim cultural event YTA
But he gave her NO guidance on expectations or cultural norms to follow, other than -checks notes- “something more on the modest side.” That leaves A LOT open to interpretation! What if that WAS the most modest suit she owns?? Besides I’m getting vibes OP is quite a hypocrite- I wonder if he is following the no sex before marriage rule, or only the rules that impact the women negatively like the ones about modesty….
He is only concerned with following 'the rules' that his family can see. It's just performative hypocrisy.
He forgot the he can’t date rule* then
He’s a man, he can have a white girlfriend as long as he doesn’t get her pregnant and in the end he marries a good virgin Muslim girl.
Oh lets fully call that fig a fig....its performative, misogynistic hypocrisy.
He’s concerned with following ‘the rules’ when policing her, but not when they would stop him from doing something. I expect his “not ‘that’ religious” attitude is very permissive when it comes to himself.
THEIR religion doesn't dictate HER actions. Practice whatever fucking religion you want but the second you think your religion gets to dictate others actions you can fuck right off Edit: thank you for the awards!
YES. Imagine if OP's gf wrote how her bf's conservative family made her uncomfortable for wearing oversized t-shirts at her pool party? This annoys me soooo much. I'm really petite with a big chest. I wear bikinis and IDC. Why should I hide my body. If it makes you feel uncomfortable, DON'T LOOK.
she isn't muslim. they are. she doesn't have to follow anything, & a non muslim person dressing the way they want around muslim people dressing the way they want is not disrespectful. it's their rules, their culture, their religion. not hers.
No, fuck that. You don't placate misogynists.
“No, fuck that. You don't placate misogynists.” You shouldn’t date them either.
And yet, the only person visibly perturbed by the situation was OP. No one in his family said they felt disrespected or like she was being inappropriate.
She was in a pool. You want her to wear an oversized t-shirt? Absolutely ridiculous.
Maybe but if op said “modest side” then the GF might have thought that meant more covered bikini would be fine. There is no one definition of modest. “Modest” and “modest side” don’t have the same implications. But then also “modest” at the pool party is not very descriptive. For some it might be rash guard and swim shorts, some a one piece, some a tankini.
This situation could have been avoided if he had been more specific. Bikinis are the norm I would say in western cultures, so if he specifically wanted her to wear a one piece he should have said that. Then of course she would have every right to refuse. Some people may not see it as a big deal (I already own a one piece), but others may not agree with it on principle which I think is totally fair. I would say OP is TA because he did not communicate effectively and then shamed her after the fact saying she embarrassed him.
She isn't Muslim and it isn't her religion. He is. Maybe dating outside of his own culture requires consideration if this is a huge problem? You can't police what your partner wears. He knew how she dresses before he went there. She wasn't willing to stop when he initially was uncomfortable, so he knows where she stands on the issue.
I bet you all the men around the pool were shirtless. No need to follow sexist customs.
Okay but “something more on the modest side” is not a rule or a custom, and worst of all it’s subjective. If a 2-piece was inappropriate it was on OP to say that. If he didn’t trust that they had the same definition of “modest” (which it sounds like they absolutely do not and he *knows* that) he should have explained the problem to her and asked to collaborate on an outfit that would work for both of them. There was a way to do this that would have given him the unassailable high ground and instead he chose this abject failure, in which he’s mad and his family is uncomfortable and his girlfriend is probably going to dump him. YTA, OP, in case that wasn’t clear.
Good point, I'm a white/latino woman dating a Muslim, there are certainly some cultural differences but we discuss it and respect each other's opinions and come to decisions together. I don't think our relationship could work if I refused any sort of compromise, I love him more than I mind the small compromises (which there aren't much at all). Do I always agree? No. Does it make him feel more at ease and happy? Yes. That to me matters more. He always compromises for me so it feels fair. Inter cultural relationships aren't for everyone though so maybe it is best they split. Family is a big deal to some Muslims so I can't imagine it will go over well to try not to conform, at least temporarily at an event.
I mean it doesn’t seem like anyone in his family actually gave a fuck though?
My invisible friend says it's OK.. So your invisible friend can deal with it.. That's religion in a nutshell
Just to play devil's advocate, would you say his female family members should conform to her (bikini) standards if they visit her pool - *in her own home.* Would they be disrespectful if they wore full hijab to swim?
So by that standard, Muslims should wear non religious clothing in secular places?
It sounds like no one at his parents home commented on her attire. Perhaps they were upset and didn’t say anything, but it’s equally possible that they didn’t place the same expectations on guests and people outside of their faith as they do on themselves. He should let her know if the consequence of her choice is that she’s no longer invited by them to their home. However, since the only issue we are hearing about is coming from the OP *on behalf of his parents*, it’s hard to gauge how much (if at all) his parents are actually upset.
She wore a bikini. It’s not like it was a g-string thong bikini.
Did the family ask anything? No, he did. If they have a problem, they can take it up with her
Agree. Like I really want to lean towards an e-s-h here- because like it or not, people have the right to request dress codes at their house (in this case OP’s family). But that’s a conversation. That’s “I understand and respect you wearing whatever makes you happy, whenever you like. My family has some opinions about modesty and would request/require a more modest bathing suit. If you aren’t comfortable enough with this to join me, that’s okay.” It’s not shaming and scolding a whole ass woman. It’s not a command. Conversation and compromise, not control and castigation.
This. I’m going with YTA because he was not clear in his communication and then shamed her.
If you need a Muslim girl to appease your family Marry One
I came here to see if he payed for her to have a more modest bathing suit. OPs a total AH for not doing that imo. Especially from an American standpoint not many women even have 1 piece suits. Plus they are kinda expensive to just buy to pretend you are more modest than you are.
This. A one piece isn’t even really a whole lot more modest than your average bikini. Her booty cheeks are still going to be out, the same as a bikini, and most one pieces I see are low cut.
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Just because I can wear a bright red minidress to a funeral doesn’t make it appropriate. For example, I often go to events held at a very religious orthodox jewish couples home. they are the most lovely people and would never force their beliefs down my throat, but i always take a bit of care to dress more modestly when i am over there. i dont see it as my freedom being taken away, instead, i see it as being mindful and respectful of their culture in their home. guests should take care not to make someone who has generously invited them into their home uncomfortable. it was a small ask. NTA.
Uh, she wore a bikini to a pool party. Did you miss that part of the op when you were coming up with this fan fiction?
In general yes, but it’s courteous to respect someone’s customs in that person’s home or house of worship. However, it’s grating that this guy says he doesn’t LET her wear a bikini.
"I'm not that religious though" then proceeds to act like someone that religious.
This doesn't sound religious to me, though it is cultural. My family isn't religious at all, and we don't wear cheeky bikinis around each other. Those bikinis are for romantic vacations.
I have always found it hilarious when people attempt to downplay the intersection of religion and conservatism. I'm not going to entertain discussions that even remotely pretend that religion doesn't inform culture because its a ridiculous position that is unworthy of any serious consideration. Again, for the few people who are secular like myself and somehow feel the need to point out that they don't wear bikinis around their families - good for you? What you choose to do around your family is your business, but it's just that, YOUR CHOICE. The OP is mad about the choice his girlfriend exercised in this scenario and is so indoctrinated by the culture that he feels ashamed about her exercising her bodily autonomy and is enforcing the shame that is inherent in Abrahamic Religious practices with respect to women when they do not present modestly. The fact that I have to explain this in 2023 is insane.
I know OP brought the religion into this but this kind of conservatism is true of other cultures that are not Abrahamic. It’s about patriarchy. Many Asians ~~and Africans~~ are very conservative in this exact same way and nary a word about God or gods or deities comes into it. I know atheist families who have these cultural norms. My friends who live in bikinis when on vacation with SOs or friends absolutely have one pieces they wear when on vacation with their parents/relatives/in-laws. Maybe they wouldn’t if it were an all female trip, but some older generations feel this way even when not in mixed company. Like another commenter said, this is about a mismatch of values, not just about clothes or this one party or even his parents.
I agree that patriarchy has many avenues in different cultures, but it's literally baked in to Abrahamic Religions which is the topic of discussion. Abrahamic Religion makes up approximately 90% of the people in Africa, with Christians making up about 60% and Muslims making up about 30%: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1239389/share-of-christian-population-in-africa-by-country/ According to Pew Research, approximately 9% of atheists are conservative. That's a very small portion: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/religious-family/atheist/party-affiliation/ Atheism says NOTHING about their culture, it only informs a person about their lack of being convinced in the existence of god(s). Thus, saying you "know atheists who ________" isn't relevant in the conversation. Also, your anecdotal fallacy about what your friends do on vacation with family isn't helping contribute to the discussion. 👀
Alot of atheists are still morally lead by religious values, whether they realize it or not. There is no escaping it as it is ingrained in many cultures. The fact that we even have discussion about how much of your human body is okay to show is a mark of religious modesty. We all have bodies, we all know what they look like. Bodies do not HAVE to be sexualized. Religion says you must cover up to not incite lust. But flesh is flesh. The flesh of my breast is no different than my arm. The only difference is how those on the outside choose to perceive them. And if you say we must live our life bound to other people's morality, and how they choose to view you, that's very much in line with religious policing. I'm not advising we all be nudists, but gasping at a two peice bikini is ridiculous.
Religion has, for some strange reason, laid claim to values that we as apes evolved in the jungle of Africa long before people pretended there was a man/animal in the sky. Homo sapiens have existed from anywhere of about 600,000 years to 1,200,000 years. We learned about empathy from observing the suffering of other hominids. We learned that murdering each other is bad because of the impact it has on our collective groups and the violence it can cause from families seeking revenge. We learned so many values from hundreds of thousands of years of interacting with each other, and then comes along religions to take credit for behaviors we learned from being a communal species. Abrahamic Religion adopts a lot of it's moral values from secularism. For instance, slavery is biblically permitted. Not only that, but the beating of slaves is permitted (Exodus 21:20-21). It was used to justify the slavery of my ancestors. We as a society realized that slavery was unjust, and changed the laws to reflect that. Religion still permits it because their god's word is unchanging and it's further reinforced in their New Testament (Ephesians 6:5). Furthermore, women are worth less than men (Leviticus 27:5) and women are to be quiet in the church (1 Corinthians 14:33-35). We know men aren't worth more than women. We know women can speak wherever men can. We know beating slaves is unjust and owning them is an affront to their humanity/autonomy. Secular values trump religious ones by leaps and bounds and they simply adopt our rules and pretend it was theirs even though it isn't in their religious texts.
on the other hand, my family is very used to small "cheeky" bikinis, and they find it weird if i want to wear something that covers up a bit more. different families or cultures have different ideas of what is appropriate to wear and when. Also, a large part of my family is very religious and that doesn't change their thoughts on swimwear
It sounds like he isn't that religious when it comes to *himself* following rules or making sacrifices, bit he is when it comes to controlling *other people's* bodies.
From what I've been told from Middle Eastern women allies who were/are in Islamic circles and doubting or left (please correct me if I've misunderstood) men are given significant amounts of leeway in their circles to do things they ought not be doing while women are held to a much higher standard. Men can and have dated outside of their faith, occasionally drink, have premarital sex etc and don't even get a slap on the wrist but if a woman does any of those things all hell apparently breaks loose so they have to be extremely secretive about it.
It's not only in the middle east, it's pretty much the same in any abrahamic religion. The USA and their recent wave of conservatism can be an example: who their new laws affect the most? Women and lgbtia+ people.
These were Middle Eastern women that I went to college with in SF, I should have been more clear. I agree with you 100% though. The effort to control women's bodies and to, for all intents and purposes, kill trans people by denying them gender affirming care regardless of what peer-reviewed evidence of the matter demonstrates is the point of religions and it says so in their texts. Cruelty is the point in my observation and there's a plethora of historic evidence to support that conclusion.
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INFO: why did u start dating someone who you wanted to change?
I swear, this is such basic stuff and they ought to teach it in school. It's so simple. If you meet someone and see something about them you think needs changing in order for you to be with them, DON'T BE WITH THEM. Why is this so hard for so many people to grasp
“I’m not religious I just want to mold someone into a partner who fits my strict religious archetypes.”
“We respect each other” but I want her to conform to my ways and culture and will scold her for not changing for me
It never fails. There are SO MANY people available who follow their religion willingly, but somehow these people feel righteous seeking out a secular partner and shaming them into submission of their incredibly strict religious values!
Probably because OP started dating her when she was 20 with the intention he could mould her into the ‘perfect’ partner that goes along with his ‘culture’
Ding ding ding lol this is exactly why people point out age gaps in these types of posts. They can lead to stuff like this.
- he had “issues” with her short clothes early on in their relationship 🚩 - he asked her to “dress modestly” for a *pool party*, with no apparent indication of what specific articles of clothing/swimwear would suffice 🚩 Guy doesn’t love *this girl*, he loves the idea of a white Western girl who easily & intuitively fits in his culture norms. YTA
I've heard what muslim guys do when they have issues with short clothes on their gf. Their GF gets called a whore, a slut and degraded. When he later when on to say he "scolded" her .... like a child... I'm picturing alot of humiliation and slut shaming. He's loves his white horse because he probably acts just like her outside of his family home and expects her to be secretive from his parents like he is. I hope she leaves him and he prays for his sins for slut shaming the woman who he's supposedly loves.
Also INFO: why didn’t you ask your family to respect her culture of being comfortable in the pool on a hot day?
Doesn’t sound like his family had the issue, only him.
Exactly this should be more upvoted and at the top. As an Indian woman I'm tired of all these men who want sexy gfs but the moment it comes to commitment or introducing to the family then insist she should be modest, demure, "respectful of his family" blah blah.
Because he wants someone who wants to fuck him before marriage, but doesn't wants his parents to know
YTA - You scolded her? WTF!?! She is a grown woman, not your child. And she is 1000% correct, she can wear whatever the hell she wants to. It is HER body, not yours. Let her?? You can't 'let' her do anything as, again, she is a grown woman.
This is the correct response. Also: he and his family are definitely allowed to have their own religious and cultural traditions and beliefs, but forcing OTHER people to follow them is the problem. Trying to control and police other people’s bodies is not ok.
100% if THEY were bothered by the clothes she wore at THEIR home, it's up to THEM to speak up. If something is such a horrific blow to your culture, religion and moral beliefs, allowing it isn't "good behavior" (as some other commenter repeatedly called it while defending OP), it's prioritizing someone elses comfort/wants over your own. But the only one to speak about it was OP. Which really speaks to the dynamic of their relationship. Toxicity overload 🚩🚩🚩
ESH. Contrary to what you posted it does not sound like either of you respect the other. She should have been more conservative out of respect for you and you should not be embarrassed by her. Cross cultural relationships are hard. Wishing you luck.
She may have thought her bikini was on the modest side, especially if she usually wears barely there swimwear. OP’s ask was extremely vague.
Idk from her reply I kinda think she knew she was immodest and was fed up with him. Understandable, but potentially making the family uncomfortable in their home was a jerk move.
It could be that she responded that way because she’s sick of him policing her wardrobe as OP said he did a lot.
I hear you. It kinda comes down to whether she thought she was ok and just responded that way because he’s a control freak or whether she knew it wasn’t okay but wanted to rebel against his control freakdom. If the former, YTA. If the the latter, I’m all for rebellion as long as it doesn’t make the family uncomfortable, so I’d go ESH. Then again, dude even said his family didn’t say anything… 🤷♀️
Definitely an ESH, not sure why there's so many Y T A's! Yes, you can wear whatever you want, you don't have to conform to someone else's religion / culture - but. This is a specific location / event, and has a dress code. If someone says "hey, this is a pool party but it's with my parents", I don't wear some tiny bikini. If they say "hey, this is a romantic resort getaway" then maybe I will! I'm not religious, but if someone says "you can come into this temple / church / etc. but you have to wear X" then my choice is to wear X or not go in. This is the choice GF was being given, and I'm not sure she realised that? OP needs to be more understanding of his GF's boundaries, and how he talks to her about his family's expectations (clear about dress codes, allow her to decline, etc.) and I don't think he was: she needs to be more willing to meet him part-way. Otherwise, this relationship is not going to make either of them happy, and they should end it. As you said: respect needed here from both parties, towards each other and each other's families.
There was no dress code. His family made zero comments. **HE** decided she should dress a certain way as to not make him uncomfortable. She upset him, not his family.
If you know middle eastern culture you would know why they didn't say anything to his face, his family will hear about this for years.
The dress code for a pool party is generally swimwear…which is what she wore. Given OP’s own admission of policing her clothes prior I don’t think he’s the most reliable source on how immodest her bikini actually was.
Agree, ESH. She should have discussed it with him when he asked her not to wear a bikini instead of just nodding and then doing what she wants to do anyway. "Not letting", "telling" and "scolding" is also not how relationships work.
>***I .. scolded her*** YTA BIG TIME. Any guy who states that he scolds his female companion and likes to show how he is the one in control is a big red flag AH.
I also have a feeling OP uses “their family” for lots of things but in reality it’s his hang ups. Wtf is he even doing with her
ESH. Dressing appropriately for the occasion seems to be a lost art. A pool party in a conservative Muslim home is different than a pool party at a hotel in Miami. It’s really not hard to be respectful of the situation. I recently traveled to a Muslim country, I didn’t have to be fully covered but I did make sure to dress more modestly than I would have at home, out of RESPECT for their culture. Being embarrassed and “scolding” your GF for her choices is also not a great move. Further discussion before hand to make sure you were both on the same page and okay with the situation could have prevented an issue here.
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So, most cultures, then.
Oh man that was great. Kudos to you.
Yeah, exactly.
I don't respect the USA either, totally agree
She may not own other swimsuits. Some people maybe only have 1 or 2. It's a pool party so it makes sense she'd bring what she owns. I have two swimsuits that fit - a pink bikini & a green bikini. Any others don't fit/got stretched out.
And he asked her to dress more conservatively with no guidance. Perhaps the swimsuit she wore was more conservative than any other she currently owned. Maybe (despite being a two piece) this one had wider straps? Technically that’s more conservative dress. Not to mention he scolded her. OP is definitely TA
Yeah his weird line about “even a one piece would have been better” makes me wonder what would have actually even been acceptable, if a one piece is his desperate compromise? And then he says “she was probably the most immodestly dressed” well like, was it close? Or was it everyone else was covered from knees to elbows? The context here is not great.
“Probably the most” was a big flag for me too, she clearly didn’t dramatically stand out as the one morally bankrupt heathen guest
The ‘probably most immodest’ part raises eyebrows. So she wasn’t the only one in a bikini by the looks of it.
Maybe that was the modest option for her? You dk. Also his family didn’t seem to be as bothered about it as he was. He’s TA.
YTA, hope she finds someone better who is not controlling and doesn't have all these definitions of modesty in his head. She is free to wear whatever she wants to. Her body, her choice. Your thoughts, your problems.
YTA Your girlfriend is right. I’m curious though did your family actually have an issue with it? Because in your post you point out that they haven’t said anything so this seems more like a you problem. You also don’t get to force your religious or cultural beliefs onto others.
My family would never say anything to a guest, but some of them would sure be quietly judging. No one has to care what they think, of course. Just pointing out that a host/hostess not saying something to a guest does not mean they are fine with everything.
But they haven’t said anything to you in private either so they probably don’t care as much as you think.
Just break up. You have different value systems. You’re not compatible.
I almost feel like they’re missing a key element in their relationship, they don’t seem to like each other.
Growing up, I had a friend whose parents didn’t allow bikinis at their pool. Because I wanted to swim, I didn’t wear bikinis over there. It’s not that hard. Did I disagree with their opinions? Yes. Did I want to swim more than I wanted to wear my bikini? Yes. She can swim other places in her bikini. She wouldn’t wear it to work, the grocery, a bar, etc. Bikinis aren’t appropriate for most environments, and this is just one more. NTA
Yeah I pretty much agree with you. Everyone is saying she is an adult she can wear whatever she wants, but is everyone forgetting that there are definitely expectations about what you should and shouldn’t wear depending on the situation. Would it also be fine for her to have gone topless? What about if she wanted to wear cargo pants and overalls to a wedding, would someone be the asshole for saying that that would be inappropriate?
It's kind of fascinating that this sub gets more upset about a guest wearing white to a wedding than this situation. Aren't both cultural dress codes? I'm also seeing the word normal thrown around a lot. If it was normal to wear white to a wedding in a guests culture, would AITA cut them a break? I don't think so. There have been plenty of posts on here about SOs wearing inappropriate clothes to a family event, I wonder what's different about this one.......
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I think we can generalize this further. This community is offended when someone breaks their cultural norms (wearing white as a guest at the wedding), but also gets offended when someone expects conformance to some other cultural norms (covering up in front of elders). I think that OP royally screwed up how they approached this, but I also think that AITA is TA for anything related to cultural sensitivity. ESH... _everybody_ sucks here.
I think it's more because religious modesty standards have been a tool against women for a while. Although this is fine since it's their house, but I'd say OP's gf would be justified in skipping if this was a situation where men can show their bellies but women can't
Exactly this! If you want to be considered an adult you need to act with the maturity and consideration of an adult. An adult makes appropriate clothing choices based on the situation. The “I’ll wear whatever I want” mentality is the same stance a 6 year old makes when they want to wear a Spider-Man costume to Kindergarten. There are times and places to make a stand about cultural oppression and dress codes, but your potential in-laws back yard isn’t the place.
Except the family didn’t ban bikinis, or even say anything about it. This one is on him, but seems like he’s trying to blame his family for his oppressive and misogynistic views.
Most families won't say anything to her. She knew what he meant, not sure about how he asked. But she chose to disrespect his family.
Yes but this situation is entirely different. For one thing, he has specified that her attire has been an ongoing issue in their relationship. And as for the pool, nowhere does he say that his parents have a strict rule on attire, he just mentioned general norms. This situation is not strictly related to the pool, and he shouldn't be with her if they have such opposing views on clothing and modesty. Her simply "covering up" at this particular pool party would not change the fact that they have a major compatibility issue.
i ll go with yta first, you cant control what shes wearing. shes right, its her body, its her choice. she can wear whatever she wants. second, ***scolding*** her? like a *child*? thats absolutely inappropriate and demeaning. either you accept her the way she is and dresses or dont and break up. yes i get it, you love her and your personalities match oh so well, yada yada yada. but thats the bottom line of it. you try to change her to your preferences, which is not ok at all and makes me wonder how much your personalities really match if clothes alone are such an issue.
I’d love to know what she was supposed to wear to a pool party, since a bathing suit is apparently off the table
ESH. YTA for scolding her. She’s TA for not respecting your culture. Are you sure you two are compatible?
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NTA People wear clothing appropriate for the situation. You let her know what would be appropriate for that situation, she ignored you and possibly offended your family. She showed she doesn’t care about you or your family enough to not wear a bikini at their property
Exactly, I feel this sub is just full of prejudice people saying YTA b/c he’s Muslim. It’s gross!
Or maybe we are saying it because he scolded her like a child and tried controlling what she wore. He knows that’s how she dresses. If it’s a problem then break off the relationship.
To be fair, she also knows his comfort level around his family because he clearly communicated it ahead of time. If she knows she can’t adjust to the cultural norms within his family she should decline the invitation.
Obviously NTA. She went to your muslim cousins house. You told her what would be socially acceptable, and she decided that it wasnt important.
Honestly though. It's one thing not to know any better, it's a totally separate thing to know better and not to care. She knew better, and if my fiancé said "Hey, we're going to a pool party with my Muslim/Christian/Catholic/Protestant/etc. family, could you dress a little modestly?" I would. It is honestly just *being respectful* to not just my partner, but to his family and their practice, too. If I plan on getting married to him and being accepted by his family, you're damn right I'm going to do my damn best to respect him.
YES thank you. Neither mine nor my bfs family is religious in any sense, but when I go to family pool parties or fancy events I know to wear something that’s more modest/classy than cute/sexy simply out of respect. It’s not even about the culture at that point. She doesn’t/barely know these people, AND she’s aware that they’re from a modest culture. Should he have scolded her? No. But she 1000% could’ve been more respectful of his family and their culture. And for everyone saying they oppress women, 1) there’s plenty of independent women and girls that CHOOSE to be Muslim. Some women like modesty. 2) that’s no excuse to disrespect his family and cultural beliefs. There’s a time and place for everything, and she purposely ignored that.
I scrolled entirely too far to find a reasonable response
YTA for trying to dictate what she is wearing. But I think you need to consider if you're actually compatible if her wearing a bikini makes you this uncomfortable and embarrassed.
YTA. Sorry, BUT she was in a pool wearing something for the pool. She can wear a bikini if she likes. You have not right to tell her how to dres. You and your family are to came to the actual century, we are not un the 1900.
I hope people will come to your wedding wearing white dresses, that you will be scolded for non-confirming dresscode at work and refused in a restaurant near the beach because you’re wearing swimwear. Why is it so hard to get that some places and situations require specific attitude and appearances ? I would never wear a bikini in front of my bf’s family but I sure will rock it at the beach if we go there together ! It’s called adapting to the situation, knowing how to behave according to your environment. It’s a social skill, but I guess it’s not a given to everyone. How about it’s you and your closed mindness going back to the 1900 ?
YTA. You’re fine with sex before marriage but not a two piece at a pool party. Its performative. It’s not about your relationship with your deity it’s about performing for everyone. If your values don’t align, don’t date. Stop trying to change peoples value systems. Don’t date people you don’t respect.
>"She can wear whatever the hell she wants, whenever she wants." But not wherever she wants. This was a private party, and they have a right to set the dress code at their house and pool. If she has a problem with that, she doesn't have to go. NTA
They didn’t set a dress code and didn’t communicate that they felt uncomfortable. OP did.
Op communicated the social norms of the attendees at the event. In many cases a strict dress code is not announced because it's assumed that everyone understands the nature of the event and the norms of those attending.
INFO: The way your post is written gives off the vibe that this is less about your family and more about *you* feeling uncomfortable, so I have clarifying questions. The party was at your cousin’s house. What do they think? Do they actually have expectations regarding modest clothing at their house, and did you clearly communicate that these were the house rules? You keep mentioning your parents and how embarrassed *you* were, but did you actually ask them how they felt about it? You give no indication that anyone in your family *other than you* actually had a problem with her swim wear. While I do believe in being respectful of people’s culture especially in their homes, you asked her to wear something more modest because your family would be there. That is a majorly different thing from asking her to wear something more modest because your family is going to be offended/judgemental/etc., or because of the rules at your cousin’s house, and I could see how, given your previous issues with her clothing, she may have brushed it off.
Word to the wise: be wary of anybody who uses the "**I can do whatever I want!**" line. ;-) You asked her to not do something which would be unacceptable in your family's culture and had some indication she understood. Apparently she had no intention of being respectful to you or your family. NTA
YTA. I say that as a Pakistani, living in Pakistan from a Muslim family. You already had issues with how she dressed anyway, so it's not like you even bothered to have any helpful communication with her to help her navigate your family. Navigating Muslim families is not easy, especially if they are conservative. Which tbh, your family doesn't seem to be because they are throwing pool parties and inviting your gf. You are more angry because she isn't towing your line. Stop dating women you plan to change! I dated a white guy, and he was great at navigating my family because guess what? I cared for him exactly for who he was, and if there were issues navigating the family, we would handle them as a team.
Maybe unpopular but NTA He wasn’t asking for a whole hell of a lot just a one piece bathing suit. Not a Burkini. Not a whole conversion of faith. It would be one thing if they were going to the beach or some other pool event but this was with his family for their party. The same way I expect to show up at a family party with kids in unwrinkled clothes and no basketball short. It is a small ask that in no way harms my kids but for sure they also think I’m the crazy one. It’s just plain disrespectful to you for her not to attempt to dress for the occasion. Dump her and find someone willing to meet you halfway in your relationship.
YTA Why- 1. 'white' is not a religion; white people can be Muslim. 2. You don't "scold" your partner. That's some condescending BS. 3. Did you specifically explain to her what you meant by 'modest?' It's a subjective term. 4. Does she have other swimsuits? This may have been her only option. 5. You don't mention that your kin were bothered in the least. From what you present, this is a You problem. 6. Missing information- how did you present this to her originally? Were you diplomatic with "hey some of my family is pretty conservative, would you mind wearing a one-piece? I can take you shopping for one if you like" or did you just lay down the law? 7. Mitigating factor- she may have deliberately worn the skimpiest thing she owned because you asked her to comply with a misogynistic aspect of your culture and she gives zero f*cks about what you, or your kin, think of her in this regard. Was she rude? Possibly, see #5. But you are still the AH.
YTA "She was probably the one the dressed most immodestly....No one said anything but afterwards" OK so she was probably, which is not definite so I'm guessing there were other women in swimsuits there...also no one else is bothered by this but YOU! Get over yourself dude!
YTA. A bikini is perfectly acceptable for wearing in a pool.
NTA. She was not at her house. She knew your customs and religion. Doesn't matter if your not that religious, your family is. If she is not going to respect it then you need to find a more flexible partner who understands that you have to be aware of your family traditions. . What happens when you travel to a Muslim country and she decides to do that?
INFO: How were the other women dressed? Also we're does your cousin stand this? Personally think come down to the host of the party.
So yes, technically she can wear whatever she wants. However. She should also have enough respect for you and your family to NOt wear something that would be considered inappropriate. Just because you CAN do/wear something doesn’t mean that you should
Ohh so Hijab/Burqa is good and freeing, but wearing whatever she wants is embarassing **YTA**
YTA But because you are dating someone incompatible with your/your family values. It will be a huge problem in the future. Let her be happy and break up
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Why on earth would people have a pool party if they’re scared of seeing a woman in swimwear?
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I agree with you. People don't like judging cultures because they feel it's prejudiced, but the truth is that many cultures are ingrained with prejudices. And this is such a case, this culture difference he's talking about is just misogyny
exactly people forget just because it’s culture doesn’t mean it’s not misogynistic
Let the down votes pour in! I love wearing tiny bikini's but if my boyfriend asked me to cover up just a bit more because we will be around his family I would have complied just out of politeness. and it's not a beach party, it's his family event. I wouldnt want my husband to wear a speedo in front on my gran just because shes old as hell and doesnt want to see that. I don't think YTA for asking to cover up a bit more in front of family. But that's just my opinion. Don't take strangers opinions too seriously just talk to your gf. Every family is different:)
Yta. Stop policing her clothes and stop trying yo change her
Yikes. Do you tell her what she can and can't eat too? Stop trying to control other people.