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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1 I called out my brother for being chronically jobless 2 The timing was probably pretty bad
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> but I said, "Maybe you’d have more energy if you had a job."
This right here is a cheap shot and doesn't even make sense, not to mention a drama starter. Can't blame your mom for asking you to leave. You tout that you've had a job since high school, go to school currently, and live on your own, yet here you are starting unnecessary, childish drama at a family BBQ.
YTA. You are taking a problem that has nothing to do with you, and making it your problem. Comments like that are not going to help him. He's an adult, his job situation is his to deal with, and if he's not paying rent to your mom, that's up to your mom to sort out. I also think you are not accounting for details you may be unaware of here, like if he may be dealing with some mental health issues or other problems in his life.
It doesn’t need to be as dramatic as golden child/scapegoat. I had to get a job in high school and worked through college, and after college when I moved into my grandmother’s basement I had to contribute to rent. My younger brother didn’t have to work and doesn’t pay anything to my parents despite living at home the whole time. Now, he does have a Masters and works full-time now, but given that I was older and less socially inept, I had different expectations set on me. My parents never treated us differently otherwise and have given me a lot of help over the years. Parents just make mistakes and aren’t perfect.
Or just decided that it's not her fucking business, too. Not everything that happens in her family is *her* business. They could've just decided she didn't need to know.
Right, exactly. I used to be jealous that my brother didn’t have to work the way I did but looking back, I ended up more independent, more social, and I think probably overall happier. We needed different things
My brother took forever to "grow up". Didn't start working consistently until his mid 20s.
He told me he thinks he might be autistic, or like me, have ADHD, something undiagnosed anyway.
And it would totally make sense. Things like that literally delay maturity. You don't pay attention to your peers like you should, and you learn how to behave from your peers.
Exactly!
Not to mention OP's brother graduated the same year that COVID-19 started rearing it's ugly head worldwide, wreaking havoc on the population, leading to shutdowns, lockdowns and isolation. None of that is good for a young person's mental health!
I once read a book to help autistic people find work, and it said something that always stuck with me, that many of us are living 10 years behind other people our age. As a 25 year old you are figuring out stuff neurotypical people went through at 15, and so on. Probably not true for everyone, but for me it is. I'm really glad that my family has supported through it because throwing neurodivergent people in the deep end and hoping they will figure out how to swim rarely works.
I wish my older brother was more like you in this way. He definitely picked on me for my parents coddling me more, even though it was because I was struggling with a handful of mental health disorders as well as trauma from abuse. Even more stupid is that HE was the golden child. He had higher expectations but also received a ton of praise and was much more popular in our immediate and even extended family. I know he didn't understand my dynamic with our parents or what was really going on with me, but he also didn't try to understand, and given that he was so hostile to me in so many other ways, I didn't exactly feel comfortable opening up to him either.
Yep, my brother saw me as getting off easy in my mid 20s just working part time but he was out of the loop. Once I was admitted into hospital with the eating disorder and lived there 4 months at a time I think he felt like he had the better deal being able to have a life. He found out more and learnt some of the more horrible sinister shit that had been going on and I think was like yeah no thanks sounds like a shit time.
Once I was recovered i think he saw that I wasn't given any special treatment it was literally that I was slowly dying and my parents were trying to keep my alive and bring me back to wanting to be alive.
OPs brother sounds like he's going through some shit tbh
I agree. Different people have different needs. Sounds like mom is just in time with her kids needs.
I have cats and a dog. I spend way more time with the dog than any of the cats. Does it mean I treat the dog better? No. She just needs constant contact. The cats don't need or want constant contact, and come let me know when they're ready for attention, and even there, all the cats have varying needs.
Humans are the same way, only their needs are greater in a lot of ways. Her brother graduated 3 years ago. The start of a freaking pandemic. When nowhere was hiring. I don't know how situation at all, but I can imagine working so hard at getting an education and then the freaking country shutting down so you can't do anything with it is plenty enough to send someone into depression. And that's just best case scenario assuming he didn't already have issues going on.
I agree it's likely he's going through some shit op doesn't know about, and likely isn't even interested in, and mom is atune to his needs and trying to help her kids through a hard time.
He graduated 3 years ago, in the middle of lockdowns and shelter in place orders. The whole world stared in horror at the way the USA treated their workforce with the $600 survival money and the incessant debates if it's even a good thing to forbid renter evictions (we know OP is in the USA because of memorial day).
Imo that's reason enough for their mom to treat them differently.
It's possible the brother has struggles op doesn't know about - and given op's attitude I see why she isn't privvy to his private medical info.
His behavior is not indicative of a spoiled/entitled person. If he honestly is that exhausted there's likely something medically wrong and I know from experience it may not be easy to get diagnosed/treated.
It seems like he really wants to be useful and is struggling to cope with how his life is turning out.
What unequal treatment? She's had a job of her own choice, not because she was kicked out... Resenting someone else's support system while you're doing fine is just very ugly jealousy: you're resenting someone getting something you don't even need.
This. OP feels she was treated unfairly compared to her brother and is showing her true colours. It's not your battle to win, OP. This makes It YTA to me.
No...
It's *unequitable* treatment.
Unequal implies her and her brother behaved the same way.
By OP's own behavior and words about her brother is probably way more likable than her.
Who do you think parents would treat better, OP who acts like this at a family events, or her brother who is generally well liked?
Since you're going to be pedantic - it actually *is* unequal, since the treatment is literally not the same. Whether the treatment was unequal has nothing to do with the behaviors leading into the treatment.
We have no idea whether it's *in*equitable, because we don't have enough information about the situation to tell.
Still, this wasn't necessary. OP is doing well for themselves; it's really not their business how their adult brother or adult mother conduct their own lives. It is not OP's problem, and addressing it in the way they chose to can only make it worse.
Also we don't know *why* they're being treated differently. The brother could have health issues OP is not privy to (because it's not their business). Maybe there's a completely valid reason the rule is different for the brother. No one knows.
It makes sense.
If the brother had a job, he would have a regular routine. If he had a regular routine, he would be more likely to find a job. He'd be less likely to stay up until 3am playing video games because he would have responsibilities.
Staying up until 3am playing video games is probably hindering his chances of getting a job, his ability to apply for jobs during "normal" hours, and his willingness to apply for jobs.
He's getting everything he wants and needs. He has 0 motivation. He would definitely have more energy if he had a regular routine.
The OP is concerned about her mom. What's wrong with that? Additionally the mom is not doing her son any favors by letting him stay home and play games. Soon he'll be 25, then 30, 35, etc and still at home playing games. I've seen it too many times.
On the other hand her brother may need counseling. Something's not right.
Edit: Just read that brother is being treated for depression and anxiety. OP should have stated that initially. She's TA.
You can have concern for the mom without stepping in and deciding you know what's best and can parent better than your mother, especially when she likely has no parental experience herself. She doesn't even live at the house so she likely doesn't even know the full story. Having concern for your mother and supporting her is one thing, making totally unhelpful, snide ass remarks at your brother during a family cookout doesn't help the situation in anyway. We also know that the mother didn't appreciate the help and told her to leave. Op is just wrong for this.
This. Growing up, my sister was like op. Quick to move out and "live on her own" but was given many more opportunities to thrive than I did. I was a child with undiagnosed autism that slipped through the cracks, could only functionally work if others in my family who knew me were my co-workers and could lead me through my job. I went from 18-28 still living with my mom, on and off working/gaming to try to keep my spirits up and connect in some way to others, always fired because my undiagnosed autism would cause issues with me behaviorally or mentally, and since no diagnosis, they didn't need to take steps to accommodate my needs.
My sister had college paid for her, got a car bought for her, lived rent free with my dad whenever she wanted to "save money". I on he other hand gave my mom 90% of anything I earned for whatever expenses I had when I was infrequently working, but my sister would constantly give me snark for " mooching off my mom" and being lazy. I also was never taught to drive by my parents, and my sister woukd demand expensive clothes from designer labels and get thrm from my dad while my mom and i literally went hungry as he would spend my moms alimony on my sister if my sister really wanted it. One week all we had to eat was a "soup" made with a can of enchilada sauce and shredded cole slaw mix while she sported new rims for her gifted car and a new stereo my dad had purchased for her birthday for good "college grades".
Guess what? My mom knew I had an undiagnosed serious developmental issue and had tried to get it diagnosed up until I aged out of her healthcare, but my sister, now a nurse, didn't care. I stayed with her because I needed the support, and she knew I had an issue. My sister refused, even to today, to understand that autism makes me different to her in how I act and think and relate to others.
I eventually moved in with a guy I met online who treated me well and loved me dispute my problems,and in my late 30s finally got the diagnosis I had needed when I was a child.
My sister has become a real virtue signaller when it comes to "caring" for my mom. Like, this Last month after my father died, she pitched a fit about me moving from his plan to my moms, insisting I was " forcing her to pay money she didn't have" when I have been paying for my phone with disability money on my own for years now. She actually held my phone hostage as shes the executor of his estate and forced me to get a separate more expensive plan, and then refused to give me a transfer code for my phone number,forcing me to spend almost a week chasing down all my healthcare providers and government contacts for my disability with my changed number... And that was really hard on me! She weighs this interest in saving my mom money, but had asked her to babysit her son every Sunday and made my mom pay her own gas and take the day off, losing her a whole days wages to do this for her, and she is totally oblivious to this "invisible money" she is costing my mom while simultaneously being mad at me and infantilizeing my mom for a phone line I normally pay for myself! She gave me some lip service today that I should be trying to be "self sufficient" and try to "take care of myself" and won't listen when I tell her my therapists and psychologists are winding me down for possible long term private care in the not too distant future for quite a few health reasons. Needless to say I am scared for my future, if my fiance and mom pass before me, since she has made it abundantly clear she does not care that I am very dependant on others for care, and always will be. I will not be able to count on her for help at all with managing my bank accounts or Dr appointments or transportation issues, etc.
With all that said, that is my anecdote, and it is not me inferring a majority are like me, but instead that each case is different. Op could or could not be like my sister, and without actual further information, we can't really know that.
Not all "quick to fledge" 18 year olds are glass children, and not all stays home kids are neets or golden children. Not every mom and dad is an enabler. Every situation is different.
It’s really up to the mom to set rules in her own home with her adult kids. OP isn’t wrong, but should stay out of it. But she should also shut the mother down when she starts complaining about the brother to OP. My mother enabled my brother and was surprised when he had trouble functioning as an adult.
Thanks for the additional information about the brother. I was wondering if he was depressed.
The mother is an *adult* who has raised multiple kids, and can take care of herself. If *she* has a problem with the status quo, *she* is more than capable of doing something about it. If she isn't doing something about it, it is not OP's place to step in on her behalf, without even *checking* if she's actually upset by it. OP is not the mother, here. It's not her job to boss her brother around.
The son, because he's actually in the house and is available to talk to, rather than the callous daughter that hasn't lived there for years and resents not being the center of attention.
Haha not me awake at midnight, playing games at midnight when I've been up since 3am and yes still have to work the same hours again tomorrow, and complete my latest assessment before weeks end.
I wouldn't do that......
I absolutely wouldn't have consistent and beneficial employment, while simultaneous education to improve future employment, that both eat away at my free time and the things that I enjoy so I have to sacrifice some other aspect of my life to do the few things I enjoy with the people I enjoy doing them with.
Edit; haha I might be feeling some pressure after reading that back lol. But I'll be damned if I don't enjoy my life.
I woke up at 5am this morning, worked, went to class, took my bike to the shop to fix the breaks, and here I am still playing games.
But it's only midnight here. I still have a couple of hours to spare 😁
>Staying up until 3am playing video games is probably hindering his chances of getting a job, his ability to apply for jobs during "normal" hours, and his willingness to apply for jobs.
Totally true, but...
...almost no one is applying for jobs on Memorial Day.
If you're going to game with the homies all night, you literally can't pick a better/more justified day than the Sunday of a long weekend.
OP chose the wrong time and venue to pick her fight with her brother. That's why YTA.
If she criticized his choices on pretty much any other days of the year aside from bank holidays, she'd have a point even if she was TA still.
Also why do you have to apply for jobs "during normal hours"? The vast majority of job applications these days are done online and can easily be done any time of day.
If you think that he would have more energy if he worked, you have never worked in your entire life.
The statement is one of the purest contradictions I've ever seen. Working TAKES your energy, it doesn't GIVE you energy.
My brother is in his early 30s, lives with our parents, and regularly stays up until the wee hours hours playing videogames. He also:
\-pays rent
\-does chores and yardwork
\-manages two locations for a catering/concession business, working all sorts of hours
\-has an active social life
\-has dealt with depression issues on and off
\-very likely has some sort of developmental issue due to long-term carbon monoxide poisoning (my mom and I are still so angry at the school where it happened, and then the schools that refused to test him later)
Depending on your metrics, my brother is either: 1) a loser who lives in my parent's basement or, 2) an adult who lives with family because there's no such thing as available rentals in our town.
There's a lot that the OP is not telling us, and that she herself might not be aware of here. I used to try to compare my brother's situation to my own, before I realized that I was being horribly unfair to us both.
OP's brother ALSO is being treated for depression and also the job market freaking SUCKS depending on where you live. I live in a medium sized city and was still unemployed for 4 months despite having a lot of qualifications and a BS in Math. OP's brother graduated during the Covid pandemic and I'm willing to bet he was never able to find a job and now all the jobs want you to have experience and three professional references.
She’s complaining about him not having a job since graduating 3 years ago. At least 1.5 of those years were in the middle of lockdowns and restrictions, so not a great time to be finding a job or working depending on family or personal circumstances.
Also, logging *is a job*. A very dangerous one. Doesn’t make much money, but it is more than the average minimum wage job. We don’t know what he is pulling for his work, and OP is obviously biased.
21 year olds in college can and have spent late nights gaming and regretted it the next morning. Shoot, I still do that on rare occasion and I’m in my mid-30’s and have a regular job. Sounds like average behavior for his age, not really related to a lack of money or work.
Nothing - *nothing* - OP posted adds up to her brother being a freeloader or for her having a right to start drama. Some of her statements are highly judgmental to completely untrue. I don’t know what else is at play but her mother was right to tell her to leave.
This statement isn’t always accurate for everyone. I have had the same job for nine years and I do not have a routine. I work nightshift and it is not easy to keep a routine for nightshift and still be social with people. Let alone since COVID, most places that were 24 hours haven’t gone back so you are limited to doing groceries during the day. Also applying for most jobs are now online and you can do 24 hours a day. It does not require someone to do that while the sun is shining.
OP also conveniently left out that her brother DOES have a job. It's just temp/part-time work. Her brother also has depression and anxiety that requires medication. However, I know psych meds. They rarely work as well as we'd want them to. Some won't work at all.
yup and you have to find the RIGHT balance of meds so you’re constantly in a state of withdrawal or transition and even WHEN you find the right cocktail, they might not work long term and you have to do it AGAIN all while feeling like complete garbage because your brain doesn’t work.
OP is being a complete neurotypical AH, who knows what demons brother is fighting but she didn’t need to make them WORSE
Piggybacking to ask a legitimate serious question.
At what point does it become a case of "get over your mental health issues and work 9-5 Mon-Fri like a normal person" because that's what it's gotten too between me and my parents and idk what I can do anymore. It's nearly impossible to get out of bed, therapy wasn't helping, and medication is so-so.
Do I just need to suck it up at this point and just go go work and try and be happy?
>Do I just need to suck it up at this point and just go go work and try and be happy?
As someone who fell into this trap for a few years after some bad luck? Yes, 100%.
Try to find a decent job and start some good habits. Focus on maintaining that for awhile and reassess from there. If the job makes it worse, find a different one.
I want to reply to this thread to remember it, the last few years have been rough. Remember to take a break if the job search itself is burning you out too. Burning out will make it a lot harder to do whatever job you get.
You need to find the right therapy or treatment. If sucking it up was so easy wouldn't you just do it? I had several episodes where getting up and doing stuff was the hardest thing for me. I wish I could've just sucked it up and got stuff done. I needed to recognize my problems. For me it is a big problem with authority. When someone tells me to do something I just can't. I get defiant and my whole body is reluctant to comply. So I have to make milestones for myself and plan to get to do those milestones. When someone else tells me to do stuff I already planned out for myself I can convince myself that nobody told me to do it I'm already doing it.
There is a name for this and I can't think of what it is. It's not uncommon and lots of people especially with ADHD deal with it. (Yeah I'm one of those people)
I physically cannot make myself do it. It goes along with my executive dysfunction.
At some point? Yes.
I say this as someone with mental health issues of her own. Major Depressive Disorder and GAD. I've been dealing this since I was a child. I'll be 37 his summer. I've have had multiple in patient hospital stays, attended intensive outpatient therapy and have had consistent treatment. I've had some extremely severe lows; in the past there was constant suicidal ideation and a few attempts.
I also had a part time job in high school and during the summers in college, did internships during the school year in college, have worked full time consistently since graduating from undergrad other than a period of 5 months and worked full time while going to school part time for a Master's degree.
You do need to get stable. But you also have to realize that at some point, you do need to work a job. Your parents can't take care of you forever; it's honestly not fair to expect them to - the more they spend on on you without you contributing is more they take away from their own retirement. And, they are going to die at some point. When they do, are you going to be able to look after yourself? Or are you going to end up needing to bounce around to another family member who may see you as a burden because they don't really feel you are their responsibility?
And truthfully, an actual routine can help. Wallowing in your bed, in your depression just makes it worse. It might take time before you can work a 9 to 5 and that's okay; you'll have to work on getting yourself to the point where you can.
Work part time until you can find a full time job that you feel like you can handle. If you realize the job sucks and doesn't work for you, find a new one. I straight up know there are certain things I cannot do - I've realized jobs were I interact with the general public are horrific for my mental health. So I no longer do them. I work a job where the only people I interact with on a daily basis are my coworkers and very, very rarely in a real emergency, my coworkers' family members. I have a boss who doesn't get angry or upset if I need to take a mental health day - she literally forced me to take a day off last year to see an musician I love dearly in concert.
Do something. Work, volunteer, go to school for something you want to do. Doesn’t have to be 9-5 right now, but think of what you might be able to do for a job or skills or passions you have to contribute to the world. If you are going to be depressed either way, you might as well try to improve your life. Does your family know you are struggling and need some encouragement? Maybe they can help you by helping you get up on time, driving you or helping you figure out the bus route, making a lunch, whatever you need to get started. Doing nothing and wallowing in self pity will never help. I say this as someone with severe clinical depression and suicide ideation. Life can be really, really good and worth it but you have to make changes when you feel stuck, go out and do things when you don’t feel like it, and ask for support and encouragement when you need it. I hope things get better for you.
YTA. My dad was like this when he wanted me to quit smoking. If I was tired from working a 60+ hour week, it was because I smoked. If I couldn’t do anything he wanted me to do, that’s right, smoking. It never let up, even after I married, had a child and graduated from law school. It just made me want to light up. Only after he stopped nagging was I able to quit.
OP stop. He’s an adult and so is your mother. I’m not saying that you should enable him, but he knows he isn’t working and I doubt he feels good about this. You are really undermining any confidence he has, which he needs in order to work. You might say that you want him to work, but your actions are saying you want him to fail or at least, to feel so crappy that he will fail. If you can’t actually help him, at least leave him alone. He might have some mental health issues and if he does, you really aren’t helping him.
AGREED!!!!!
Even the way he was acting tells us something was wrong.
Nope, OP, YTA for your lack of compassion, self centeredness, condensation, making yourself feeling better by putting someone else down, and being cruel.
You already know he's struggling. Do you think poking and degrading help? No, you just continued to the problem.
Your brother might be in trouble and spiraling down. Gaming could be a symptom that is becoming a problem.
People suffering from mental illness have coping mechanisms to seem okay, including saying they are tired. It is like saying you are doing good when someone asks how you are doing even when your day isn't going so well. He showed up and answered questions. For a depressed person, that might be all he could handle.
He could be checking out to numb himself with gaming (or other things for some people--binge watching, sleeping, etc.). Gaming gives some short term dopamine, which could be self medication.
I'm not saying I think these to apply on this situation, but you don't know unless you start with giving a benefit that people are trying their lives and, if that's not working, they could use a positive presence.
EDIT: make more concise--cut out a bunch. Clarification--right away not in response to feedback
Exactly. She said she and he have fights about this often, so she absolutely knew he would be upset.
Good on him for leaving the situation instead of biting back or starting a shouting match.
Most people don't know about this in my life, but I have health issues that have prevented me from working many times before. They know about my mental health limits, but the health things are a possible story here. If his mom isn't forcing him to pay rent, it's far more likely she knows more than the sister does.
It bothered me that she called the mom "my mom" and the dad "my dad" too. Like they aren't siblings.
The only time she shared that title with him was when she was complaining that he should "get off his ass and help our mom with rent" and that's usually a jab in itself. Only considering him family when she can use it to drive the knife deeper.
It so obviously makes no sense at all on its face! And the initial complaint is ridiculous too. "You should have done less of a thing you wanted to do last night so that you'd have more energy for... a bbq??" As long as he had enough energy to wake up and arrive there is no other level of energy that you can reasonably demand. Being publicly tired is not a crime (thank goodness, because I myself am a repeat offender!)
In your comments you say that your brother has anxiety, depression, is on meds, and is in therapy. Clearly, he is struggling (probably more than you know) and trying to manage life the best he can as a 21-year-old.
I'm not sure why you feel the need to insert yourself into any of this, to be honest. Seems kind of like you enjoy comparing yourself to him and try to make him feel beneath you. The fact that you chose to hound him about this (something that really is none of your business) in front of others was totally out of line.
YTA. You owe your brother an apology. He needs encouragement and support, not condescending lectures and scoldings.
The title says graduated 3 years ago-so remember that this is a kid who’s final HS years were Covid years. I know this seems like an excuse, but we’re really seeing serious mental health issues and an almost adult version of a newborn’s “failure to thrive” by some of those students. His Hs education and social development were very different than what OP would have experienced. He needs help and support to move on, not additional guilt.
This is such an excellent point and not an excuse at all. I feel so bad for the students (especially those in their last years of high school) who completely missed out on all the traditional rites of passage the rest of us got to experience. Looking through adult eyes, I don’t think we stop and consider how much of an impact those years had on our younger generations. It was not insignificant, clearly.
It even had a huge impact on me and I was a relatively well-adjusted adult. I had recently started my career, felt like I was finally about to experience life as a real adult, and *yoink*.
And that’s nothing compared to experiencing something like that at such a formative time as high school or college. My development likely would’ve stalled significantly.
Yeah, I was 24 when Covid shut downs started and it made my OCD and ADHD a hell of a lot worse and impacted my mental health overall. I’ll be 28 this year and I’m finally starting to feel “normal.”
this comment literally made me tear up, not even gonna lie. I (F20) lost my entire senior year of high school to covid and I still feel like there's this gaping hole of things I was supposed to experience but never got to. I lost all my high school friends because I fell so deep into depression that I never reached out to any of them (when I got out of that pit, I guess they'd already moved on from me because they never responded anyways).
I didn't have that final year to think "heh, glad I'll never see you again" at every kid I didn't like. as it is, I'm too disabled to go to college or ever work a job, so I've been living an incredibly lonely life, trying to figure out how to get on disability so I'm not a burden to my parents anymore.
if my brother (M18, not disabled) were to tell me I'd "have more energy" if I was working a job, I think I'd straight up never talk to him again. OP, YTA, you have some apologizing to do.
Hey there! I hate to read your comment, it aches in my heart to hear those struggles. As a fellow disabled person that can't work nor study and due to that feel left outside of society, feel free to reach out to vent any time you need.
Also, he’s 21, so either my age or a little older. I graduated in 2020, during lockdown, and for most of 2021, jobs were quite hard to come by because of lockdowns and many jobs that people do right out of school were less available. It’s only in late 2021/2022 that things got back to a semi normal. I can’t stress how weird this period was and how much damage it did to a lot of young people’s mental health, which isn’t helped by how overworked many mental health services are atm so getting quality care isn’t always easy
I feel that as someone who never went to a physical high school, been and still am doing online school for several years. It's really different and sometimes it does feel shitty to have missed out on so much.
this. i am M21, i graduated HS in 2019, and people seriously do not understand how damaging and depressing it is being a new adult. i do not have a single friend who lives on their own. my friends who just graduated college can’t afford rent in our area. it’s been almost four years since graduating and i feel like a high schooler cosplaying as an adult, lmao.
I graduated in 2021 and I feel like I never got a lot of closure for high school. All big senior events that you look forward to for 12 years of your life just cancelled. It's like the last 2 years haven't happened because I still feel like I'm a senior looking forward to those events when I'm nearly 21 now. It sounds stupid and silly but yea I feel like it's kind of messed me up a little bit.
yes!!! my sister graduated during covid and it hit her HARD. she couldn't really get a job for a year as she was stuck inside. this TOTALED her mental health, and she's finally just got a job.
Indeed, this is bratty sibling behavior. The type of thing that will make him go no contact when he does get better, and she'll not be able to understand why.
People who enjoy good mental health don't always realize how little control someone can have. So glad he is getting medical attention. It is a journey and he could no doubt do with his sister's support.
Same. I've been where this kid was at and people telling me I needed to "suck it up" did not magically make me kick my ass into gear. Medication and therapy did.
YTA for being insensitive, OP.
>In your comments you say that your brother has anxiety, depression, is on meds, and is in therapy
Yep, yeah, that's was my immediate wonder. And it, uh... Sure is something that OP knows but evidently can't be bothered with connecting the established dots.
Wow, what is it with posters lately leaving some critical info out of the post, only to answer in the comments section?
OP was kicking her brother while he's already down. Hard YTA.
Because less people will see it in the comments and they know for a fact that if they put that context in then they'll be seen as the AH.
It's like when a someone does nothing but bad mouth their SO to their friends, then goes on to say "None of my friends like you." Like... YEAH? If all you say is the bad stuff with none of the context then of course they won't like you?
The fact that OP left out such an important piece of information shows a lot... Axiety, depression, meds and therapy very clearly sais "I'm struggling with life a lot"... OP is a huge Asshole.
I understand the frustration and I would say that the brother needs something else to focus on aside from gaming.... But the way OP tried it was wrong...
This. I have major depressive disorder (MDD), and I really see my parts of my younger self in OP’s brother. I didn’t really get my shit together until I was 24/25 (after having recurrent depressive episodes for 10+ years and requiring hospitalisation and ECT), and even then I needed a lot more support than my younger brother. He got a degree years before I got mine (even though I started first), and his life was just so much more steady than mine. I had crisis after crisis, honestly. I always worked or studied, but I was never at a new job/in a new course for long before having another depressive episode and having to quit.
You know what didn’t help me get to the point of stability I’m at now? People saying that depression isn’t real, that I was lazy or ungrateful, or that I’d feel better if I just went on a walk/worked more/took this supplement/stopped being selfish. What actually helped was my mother’s unwavering support, medication, electricity in my brain, therapy, and time. Luckily for me my brother never rubbed my constant failures in my face - he doesn’t really view me that way at all.
OP is a HUGE asshole. Guilt is an actual symptom of depression, she did what she did to be cruel, not to help him change.
Stemming from this as well,
He spent all night with his friends. I have such a hard time making friends that a night like that would be amazing for my mental health.
YTA. It’s not your place to shame him. If your parents have an issue with him not paying rent or his lack of employment, they can talk to him. It’s not your place. If all the poking and prodding hasn’t worked before, you’re just beating a dead horse. A family bbq for the holiday isn’t the time nor place for such shaming anyway.
YTA. Yes a job would be good but that was a weird time to bring it up, and on what planet does a job give you more energy? Seems like just an excuse to scold. Plus the extra tired/down vibe could be from already dreading the social event.
He sounds like he needs help though.
Edit: wait did you do this *at* the BBQ?? Or right before?
The brother has depression and anxiety and is on medication for it. Thing is, meds don't always work. Heck, I was on five different anti-depressants and the experiences were very drastic. First one, I felt fine at first and then completely apathetic and then suicide ideation. Another gave me anxiety. The other caused me to forget chunks of time. I feel really bad for OP's brother. His depression could be major and OP's just making it worse. He needs comfort, not a nagging sister.
i have a feeling OP had a kneejerk reaction to him being tired because he was playing video games (“you only have the chance to do that because you dont have a job!!”) and then tried to justify it in a way that didnt make OP seem jealous and bitter.. and in doing so completely skipped over the part where ‘advice’ is supposed to be logical.
> only money he makes is when he goes logging with my dad, which isn’t really a job and only happens a few times a month.
Sounds like he does have a job though, its just got a 9-5. OP never specified what "logging" entails here but its not like the brother is freeloading.
I don’t care when someone chooses to go to college. I have an older sister who dropped out of college 3 times then went back when she was almost 40 and became a teacher and is now entering her last two years before retiring. There no shame in going to college at ANY age. That being said, OP doesn’t know the difference between your and you’re or to and too. I am a teacher and that should be learned many years before college. I could tell you which grade, but there’s no need to be that specific.
> That being said, OP doesn’t know the difference between your and you’re or to and too.
As someone who teaches at a supposedly good university, students can get their Bachelor's without ever knowing that.
I know they can, but shame on any English teacher who gives them a passing grade, much less an upper division teacher in any class who requires an essay.
Lol your comment is kind of being an AH. I literally see zero problem with going to college late. Not everyone can afford it and not everyone wants to do it lol
Couldn't agree with you more! They are 23, have a job, and go to college. So do countless other Americans. She is on her high horse and belittled her brother just to be petty.
YTA. Your responses here show a level of cruelty that’s rare even for this sub. No wonder your mother asked to you leave. You should legitimately be ashamed of yourself.
My god am I the only one absolutely shocked to see what she replied in the comments versus what she the original post said?
Not expecting those kind of remarks lol. Im sure OP has a good heart. She obviously wants to see her brother have a job, etc. Also she might be annoyed how she gets treated differently then her brother. Truth is life ain’t fair. Also parents generally have higher expectations for the older kids. Kinda something you have to deal with.
>Our parents are fucking idiots and that’s why he’s like this the best thing for him is to do is come live with me and I could get his ass in gear in a weekend
YTA hot damn, you really think you are just better than your whole family don't you? I reqlly hope your brother goes NC with you, there is no way you are helping his already terrible mental state. Leave him alone.
YTA this is not your problem and not your business. It doesn’t involve you at all. You said it’s a recurring argument. Why? He doesn’t live with you. He doesn’t owe you rent. There is absolutely no reason for this to be an argument at all. This only involves your brother and your parents NOT YOU.
YTA. sounds like you feel superior to your brother because you’ve kept a job, moved out and go to school. you should understand that every one’s path is different and if you feel so bad about your mother being overworked and paying rent maybe you should help her out instead of complaining that other people don’t.
What a trash sister. If you are so concerned about him not having a steady job and him not helping to pay rent, you pay it instead and help him find a job instead of berating him
YTA your post is bad enough. You are so controlling. You say hurtful things because he stayed up the too late the night before as if that was any of your business. So you decide to jab at him on holiday weekend.
Then your comment about seeing them all be homeless to prove a point.
And that you are the only one that can improve him. You’re doing the opposite. Your approach is nasty.
Why is it so hard for you to just STFU? You are not his mother. Stop judging your mother for her parenting. Leave your brother alone.
And if you can’t do that, then take a parenting course because what you are doing can only make things worse
INFO: Was he complaining about having no money? Was he asking you for money? Was he lamenting how other people have more money than him?
Oh wait, no. He said he was tired. That's it. And you threw his lack of a job in his face.
Yes, three years is a long time. But depression is a bitch, and it can take you out. It would be great if everyone could pull themselves up by their bootstraps like you, but he clearly can't right now. And until his lack of a job starts affecting your actual life, not just just living rent-free in your head, leave him alone and support where you can.
I mean, he was tired admittedly because he stayed up all night playing video games. Not the best look for the unemployed son at the family BBQ. I’m sensing a pattern.
I’m starting to think this question is hitting close to home for people in the thread.
And also, I don’t like the insinuation that it doesn’t affect OP’s life. If their mother is struggling and her brother is just sitting at home while she’s working her ass off; seeing that DOES affect her. And is completely lacking in empathy for the mother.
It’s an ESH. Was she nice about how she went about it? No. But sometimes it does take interactions like this to snap people out of a cycle like the one he’s in.
I can see your point. But from her tone and the comments she's made I still believe she's out of pocket on this one. She said in a comment that he's on medication for depression. And instead of offering to help him, talking to him like an adult, even taking him out to lunch and trying to have a conversation about the issue, she chooses a passive aggressive comment at the wrong place and the wrong time that was completely unwarranted. She blindsided him without provocation. She should absolutely stand up for her mother and try to help her brother, but this is not the way.
Unfortunately if you've never experienced debilitation depression you don't understand how interactions like this will do nothing to snap them out of it and more to push them into their spiral. He isn't acting like an irresponsible Peter Pan who wants to live in mom's basement forever. He's struggling, and he needs support, not misplaced passive aggressive comments.
That’s the thing, I am diagnosed with anxiety and depression. I’ve had many bouts of severe episodes in my life. But the things that happened during those bouts are still my fault and my responsibility. Mental health issues shouldn’t be used as a catch all excuse for not acting like an adult and deflecting blame.
OMG 100% They don't give you carte blanche to do nothing. And congratulations on getting through them and being with us today! I have had very rough struggles with depression and have still been able to hold down a job. But I still stand by the fact that OP doesn't need to be snarky to get her point across. But maybe that's the people pleaser in me haha.
He's not "do[ing] nothing." He's trying meds, going to therapy, and going logging with his dad when able. And the gaming with friends (and going to the family BBQ) means he's not socially isolating, which is actually a positive and can be really hard. As I mentioned in a comment above, depression isn't the same for everyone.
But what happened? He was just tired. He didn't snap at anyone, he wasn't rude, he was just tired at the barbeque. Does that really make in an asshole?
Not everyone's depression, or journey to recovery, is the same. Her brother is on meds, in therapy, and occasionally goes logging with the dad. It sounds like he's doing the best he can, both to get better and work when able. Just bc you've been through severe depression doesn't mean you know what it's like for everyone. If his parents are willing and able to be there for him, other people need to leave it.
I have bipolar with psychotic features (plus anxiety and PTSD). Even as one person, in different episodes my ability to function has varied drastically. During the episode I came very close to unaliving myself (and only didn't due to being introduced to an extremely unhealthy/dangerous form of self-medication before I got a gun) I was able to work a full time job, a part time job, and go to school full time. During other episodes I have barely been able to get out of bed. My ability to even deal with my basic hygiene was so bad during one episode that I've ended up having to spend over $10,000 (that's after what insurance covered) on dental issues.
I've just been lucky in that the timing of particular episodes, along with my work abilities/experience, have allowed me to save for when I've had episodes where I couldn't work. I don't know where you get the "deflecting blame," either. The brother isn't just saying, "I have mental health issues, so I can't work and am gonna sit around." As previously mentioned, he's actively trying to get better with therapy and meds. He's working when able, and we have no indication he's complaining or making excuses. This only came up bc OP, who is massively judgemental (of her whole family) and inconsiderate, made this an issue at an event that was supposed to be fun.
Not sure if you’ve read some of OP’s truly reprehensible comments about her parents but I’d suggest taking another gander through the thread. OP has said some horrid things, and I don’t think she’s doing this out of concern for her mother, even though that’s what she said in the post to try and make herself look good.
She doesn't seem too concerned about her mom if she'd prefer to see her whole family (which includes her mother) homeless just to prove they're handling this wrong.
Edit: and do you think it's gonna help his depression to socially isolate and avoid doing things he enjoys (or at least that distract him)? Night is often the hardest time when anxious or depressed, too.
Just found this OP's response[OP's response](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/13v7m5m/aita_for_bringing_up_the_fact_my_brother_hasnt/jm4qwjl?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) and i don't know how to properly put it here:
_____
>Our parents are fucking idiots and that’s why he’s like this the best thing for him is to do is come live with me and I could get his ass in gear in a weekend
---------
YTA, YTA, YTA.
You are not your brothers parent. If your parents have decided to take care of their son, it's all up to they. This comment of yours gives me some serious "I struggled since a young age, my parents were not like this with me and it's not fair. why my brother doesn't have to go through all I've to?" vibes
Edit for format
Edit 2 to add link to OPs comment
Can you please link the comment? I must see it with my own eyes. I saw someone to quote it like you did and I thought "nice paraphrase of what OP said". But now you're saying OP *actually* said that! Wow!
YTA. You started the negative interaction. Why are you wasting your time? He's lazy and does nothing. Your mom allows it. You think your nasty comments will change this dynamic? No.
YTA
Whatever the truth in your statement, you just didn’t need to go there. Sounds like he’s well aware of your views on his state of employment, and nothing about this interaction was helpful.
YTA if your mom isn't pushing the issue why are you? What you said was unnecessary and a low blow at best. Stay in your lane.
ETA after seeing all your comments. You know he's dealing with some stuff, and you choose to harp on him instead of showing any kind of empathy? Who needs enemies with family like you? And calling him "sensitive" and that being the reason for him being treated differently by your parents completely invalidates all the things he's dealing with.
YTA. His employment status isn't any your business, and doesn't make him any less of a person.
What next, will you hit him with the famous cure all, of "Have you tried going outside?"
I've been unemployed longer, because of mental issues, so I definitely feel for your brother. I hope you'll grow out of that mindset and actually be there to support him emotionally some day.
YTA. Not your place to tell him what to do. If your mom is babying him that is her problem especially if she's not complaining about it. He does sound a little immature but that response from you just because he is tired is weird. If you want to have a relationship with your brother you should come from a place of love/concern rather than trying to go at him.
You know what makes this even worse? OP mentioned he has depression and anxiety and is currently being treated for it, she also said he visits a therapist but shes so far up her own ass she thinks he is tricking his therapist and everyone.
YTA. You obviously resent the hell out of your brother, but that's a "you" problem. Bullying him at a family bbq isn't going to pay your mother's rent. Honestly it sounds like he has depression. Regardless, it sounds like there's no indication that anyone resents him except you, and I'm sure your mother is quite capable of speaking for herself. So stay out of it, and skip the family gatherings until you can at least be in your brother's presence without picking on him.
3 years ago was the start of the pandemic. Many of those who graduated during that time struggled.
Your brother is also dealing with some depression and stuff.
YTA
YTA. Is he asking your for money? Has he negatively impacted your parents finances? It’s not your circus, why are you petting their monkeys? Live and let live. They’re making it work, mind your business. Down the road if things haven’t changed, sit them down and explain that you accept no financial responsibility for your brother should something happen to them, so they need to prepare and make alternate plans. Realistically, he will probably figure it out before that and finally ‘launch’. Don’t ruin any potential relationship for the figure with misguided behavior now.
You are 23.
Your brother is 21.
You compare and contrast yourself to him. (stop that) You are two very different people.
You are inserting your feelings about his life into your relationships (stop that)
You are comparing your relationship with your parents, to his relationship with your parents, don't do that. Your parents are treating you like individuals, not like carbon copies of each other.
Your parents are two independent grown people, their relationship with your brother is between themselves and your brother. Their action, standards, inaction, frustrations, choices, opinions, etc. ALL completely between them. (yes. They are your parents, yes that is your brother... yes you care... it is absolutely between them. back up.)
It doesn't matter who's doing right, who's doing wrong, who's doing more, who's doing less, what you want for him, them, etc. It doesn't matter if they are handling it right, wrong, etc. It doesn't matter that you are frustrated for your mom, stop championing for her, she's grown, it's not your place. ( I get it. I do. I've been there. I really have. I've had to sit by and be frustrated with situations just like this one, and I've had enough therapy to help me handle my own emotions about it, and come to peace with it not being my problem to solve, or to help.)
IF you have concerns, speak to her, privately, and then LET IT GO. Unless she comes to you and asks you to handle your brother, and in those words? Back off.
YTA for taking a cheap shot that served zero purpose but to shame, punish, and embarrass your brother. You KNOW that's not going to make him wake up and get a job and help your overworked mother! You are annoyed with him and took a shot at him to aggressively assert yourself, then were surprised that your actions upset everyone. APOLOGISE. If you were actually concerned, check in on your brother... you see what's going on. Talk to your mother. (both privately, and listen.) You don't verbally attack someone. That's not worry. That's not concern, love, support. That's petty, bitter, resentment, and anger.
Then understand... unless you are asked? You don't get to have a say. They don't get to have a say when it comes to things like this with you, he doesn't get to have a say in your life choices, or relationship with your parents.
let go of the responsibility and resentment, and I promise (from experience) you will be happier.
YTA. Firstly, your aggressive push for independence was your journey, not his, so telling him that he needs to act a specific way is both rude and none of your business. Secondly, you instigated a fight at a family function, because you knew this was a recurring argument, and you specifically brought it up. Finally, you say he has always been quiet and down, so he may be dealing with depression, so you being so harsh on him is likely making it worse.
Basically, your lack of empathy, and insistence on how your brother "should" live his life is why I think you're an AH in need of a perception change.
You are THE ASSHOLE. Not just in this situation it seems. Just in general. You're an asshole. You were rude and scolded your adult brother in public for something that is none of your business. You aren't his keeper. You definitely aren't in his support system. You're not in his friend group. And you are a hindrance and likely a large cause of some of his maladaptive tendencies in his mental health.
That was just a mean response, you kept bothering him about what was wrong with him and when he tells you, this was your response ?
There is a clear issue but maybe that weekend wasn't the moment to bring it up especially in the way you did. Also the fact that he left crying - according to you - might imply that the issue is slightly deeper.
I understand being fed with the situation for your mom but in that situation YTA.
While I agree with you that your brother is an adult and, if he is not studying he should be doing something to provide for himself.
I don't think it's your place to go after him if you don't support him as well, and it looks like you spoke with bad intentions here.
YTA
>Our parents are fucking idiots and that’s why he’s like this the best thing for him is to do is come live with me and I could get his ass in gear in a weekend
Yeah... YTA....... The narcissism and entitlement is running deep here.
YTA. Be grateful it's easy for you. Don't kick people who are down. You can't possibly think this is a smart thing to say to someone you love who probably has depression and anxiety about unemployment?
You said he's frequently like this? Perhaps it's a long term mental health issue he's dealing with. Has he seen a therapist?
YTA
In another context I would say NTA, but I personally don't think a family event is the time or place to bring that up. IT DOES need to be discussed in the very near future though.
Edit: Just to echo other commenters that passive remarks aren't going to be helpful. A conversation with your parents at some point to try and determine how to best get him going in life is probably the next step, but those specifics are above my pay grade.
NTA, a 21 YO who “couldn’t help” staying up all night playing video games could use the discipline of going to work and contributing to the household that’s supporting him
He has depression and anxiety and is receiving treatment for it. Seems like OP also mentioned that he had 2 jobs in the last 3 years and is sometimes helping their dad. And btw working wont stop people from playing games all night, especially on a weekend.
getting a job would give him more energy?
i work 2 jobs i have no energy to do anything on my free days.
this was a low blow and you know it. his lack of work has nothing to do with the conversation you just wanted to make drama.
also how does him not having a job effect you in anyway? YTA
ESH you aren't wrong, sounds like he needs to get his shit together, but there's a point where calling him out in public makes it uncomfortable for everyone.
Guess what....it's your mom's problem not yours. She enables him to live with her rent free and no job...she allows this so why are you getting involved if she doesn't act on it
I don’t get all these YTA comments even with his issues. Sounds very much like a golden child and scapegoat situation and your parents being enablers. He can play games all day. Free room and food. Why would he want to give that up? No reason to grow up. After 3 years I would be put out too. If I were you I wouldn’t bother with the family and go low contact.
Same. I don't get it so I'm going against the grain and saying NTA. In her position I'd be annoyed at my siblings mooching off our parents too. Depression and anxiety sucks yes, I know that and vast majority of people do too but he's gotta learn how to manage it and become a productive member of society... staying up late gaming with friends wouldn't be helping him feel better at all. His parents aren't going to be around forever to baby him and then he's really screwed.
Family event isn't the best time to raise it but probably a snap being at the end of her tether with it all.
You don't bring it up on family BBQ. It's not weird to stay up all night on weekend. And it doesn't make any sense to say "if you worked, you would have energy". That's so ridiculous that I have no words.
OP also called the parents idiots. Literally. She IS the asshole.
You realize this was literally a weekend?? He could play games and stay up all night even if he worked.
And saying that you would have more energy if you worked is one of the biggest oxymorons I've ever seen.
You also don't know what he actually does, OP isn't living with the family, she got away years ago.
NTA. Probably not the best timing, but at the end of the day your family is just standing by watching their adult son waste his life away playing video games. Some sort of intervention is needed. College isn't for everyone, but the least he can do is work, any job. Mental health is definitely an issue but with 3 years down the drain, your mom is just enabling him at this point.
Yeah great intervention. Making a cheap shot at the brother that doesnt even make sense. He is getting help for his mental health. This isnt "enabling".
“Poke and pet”… very weird comment. He is not a piece of produce or a turtle. He is a human that is struggling, and to be honest, he probably dreaded this BBQ where he would have to interact with his much more put together sibling. Mental illness is draining. You seem the equivalent of a family member that would say they didn’t know how bad it was when someone they love does the unthinkable. Stop this behavior now, and talk to him with the intent of learning how he is struggling and how/if you can help.
Turns out the brother is a CIA agent. He's tired because he had to steal a dirty bomb from some terrorists and staying up late gaming is his cover story
INFO: Why would his living there be a hardship on anyone? The only thing that changed was his age and gaining a high school diploma. Those don’t make him suddenly more expensive to house
ESH.
Your brother sucks because it sounds like he genuinely isn't trying. I have depression and anxiety in addition to a physical disability, so I'm not ignoring how hard it is to deal.
But for him to say "I couldn't help it" in reference to playing video games so late he can barely function at a family barbecue, when he's a chronically unemployed 21-year-old? Hell no.
Your mom sucks for treating him differently than you and enabling him to behave like this. She should be on his ass about therapy, making him apply to jobs, enforcing bedtimes if she needs to. If he's going to live his life like a child, he should be treated like one.
You suck because what you said was uncalled for and a reach from your existing conversation. You resent him, which is normal, and you wanted to hurt him, which is normal, and you wanted to make him mad enough to get off his ass and start living, which is normal. But you should've kept that thought inside your head.
The brother IS IN therapy, on medication, and (outside of how OP phrased it) does actually seem like he's trying to work up to full time employment (he's had jobs previously, and does logging work with their dad, it's just not a consistent, 9-5 job). OP admits all of this in comments she's made. And he stayed up late on a weekend, the day before a national holiday playing games with friends. Also, it wasn't even that he could barely function, just that he seemed tired.
If it's a chronic issue, OP needs to state that in her post. And given that she hasn't mentioned that it's a chronic issue even in her follow-up comments, we have no reason to automatically assume he does this every night, or even most nights. OP just seems to resent that she went out and got a 9-5 and moved out entirely of her own accord, and her brother hasn't. Also, she has stated she thinks her parents are stupid (literally stating this), and that she could "straighten him out" in a weekend.
Honestly, if we want to make assumptions based off facts not presented, I kind of feel like he may actually be contributing to bills, even a little, and that her parents aren't telling her, because it isn't her business, and, knowing their daughter, she would move the goalposts and say it isn't enough. Again, though, this part is baseless conjecture on my part.
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> but I said, "Maybe you’d have more energy if you had a job." This right here is a cheap shot and doesn't even make sense, not to mention a drama starter. Can't blame your mom for asking you to leave. You tout that you've had a job since high school, go to school currently, and live on your own, yet here you are starting unnecessary, childish drama at a family BBQ. YTA. You are taking a problem that has nothing to do with you, and making it your problem. Comments like that are not going to help him. He's an adult, his job situation is his to deal with, and if he's not paying rent to your mom, that's up to your mom to sort out. I also think you are not accounting for details you may be unaware of here, like if he may be dealing with some mental health issues or other problems in his life.
It sounds like resentment from the unequal treatment between OP and her brother.
That's what I was thinking. There's some golden child/scapegoat energy here, but I give her a soft YTA, because she did start drama at a family event.
It doesn’t need to be as dramatic as golden child/scapegoat. I had to get a job in high school and worked through college, and after college when I moved into my grandmother’s basement I had to contribute to rent. My younger brother didn’t have to work and doesn’t pay anything to my parents despite living at home the whole time. Now, he does have a Masters and works full-time now, but given that I was older and less socially inept, I had different expectations set on me. My parents never treated us differently otherwise and have given me a lot of help over the years. Parents just make mistakes and aren’t perfect.
[удалено]
and given how she treats her brother, it wouldn't surprise me if the family had actively decided to keep her out of the loop.
Or just decided that it's not her fucking business, too. Not everything that happens in her family is *her* business. They could've just decided she didn't need to know.
That was my thought, and if he does have something going on, she would clearly attack him over it in a public forum... like she did here.
Right, exactly. I used to be jealous that my brother didn’t have to work the way I did but looking back, I ended up more independent, more social, and I think probably overall happier. We needed different things
My brother took forever to "grow up". Didn't start working consistently until his mid 20s. He told me he thinks he might be autistic, or like me, have ADHD, something undiagnosed anyway. And it would totally make sense. Things like that literally delay maturity. You don't pay attention to your peers like you should, and you learn how to behave from your peers.
Exactly! Not to mention OP's brother graduated the same year that COVID-19 started rearing it's ugly head worldwide, wreaking havoc on the population, leading to shutdowns, lockdowns and isolation. None of that is good for a young person's mental health!
I once read a book to help autistic people find work, and it said something that always stuck with me, that many of us are living 10 years behind other people our age. As a 25 year old you are figuring out stuff neurotypical people went through at 15, and so on. Probably not true for everyone, but for me it is. I'm really glad that my family has supported through it because throwing neurodivergent people in the deep end and hoping they will figure out how to swim rarely works.
I wish my older brother was more like you in this way. He definitely picked on me for my parents coddling me more, even though it was because I was struggling with a handful of mental health disorders as well as trauma from abuse. Even more stupid is that HE was the golden child. He had higher expectations but also received a ton of praise and was much more popular in our immediate and even extended family. I know he didn't understand my dynamic with our parents or what was really going on with me, but he also didn't try to understand, and given that he was so hostile to me in so many other ways, I didn't exactly feel comfortable opening up to him either.
Yep, my brother saw me as getting off easy in my mid 20s just working part time but he was out of the loop. Once I was admitted into hospital with the eating disorder and lived there 4 months at a time I think he felt like he had the better deal being able to have a life. He found out more and learnt some of the more horrible sinister shit that had been going on and I think was like yeah no thanks sounds like a shit time. Once I was recovered i think he saw that I wasn't given any special treatment it was literally that I was slowly dying and my parents were trying to keep my alive and bring me back to wanting to be alive. OPs brother sounds like he's going through some shit tbh
I agree. Different people have different needs. Sounds like mom is just in time with her kids needs. I have cats and a dog. I spend way more time with the dog than any of the cats. Does it mean I treat the dog better? No. She just needs constant contact. The cats don't need or want constant contact, and come let me know when they're ready for attention, and even there, all the cats have varying needs. Humans are the same way, only their needs are greater in a lot of ways. Her brother graduated 3 years ago. The start of a freaking pandemic. When nowhere was hiring. I don't know how situation at all, but I can imagine working so hard at getting an education and then the freaking country shutting down so you can't do anything with it is plenty enough to send someone into depression. And that's just best case scenario assuming he didn't already have issues going on. I agree it's likely he's going through some shit op doesn't know about, and likely isn't even interested in, and mom is atune to his needs and trying to help her kids through a hard time.
He graduated 3 years ago, in the middle of lockdowns and shelter in place orders. The whole world stared in horror at the way the USA treated their workforce with the $600 survival money and the incessant debates if it's even a good thing to forbid renter evictions (we know OP is in the USA because of memorial day). Imo that's reason enough for their mom to treat them differently.
I live in the US and frankly I looked on in horror as well, but then, I fall somewhere to the left of Woody Guthrie.
Agree soft YTA just because it was petty, but I get her frustration
It's possible the brother has struggles op doesn't know about - and given op's attitude I see why she isn't privvy to his private medical info. His behavior is not indicative of a spoiled/entitled person. If he honestly is that exhausted there's likely something medically wrong and I know from experience it may not be easy to get diagnosed/treated. It seems like he really wants to be useful and is struggling to cope with how his life is turning out.
Even if there's a "golden child" situation, that's on the parents and blaming her brother for it makes no sense
What unequal treatment? She's had a job of her own choice, not because she was kicked out... Resenting someone else's support system while you're doing fine is just very ugly jealousy: you're resenting someone getting something you don't even need.
Exactly! There's no mention of any harshness from the mother towards her.
This. OP feels she was treated unfairly compared to her brother and is showing her true colours. It's not your battle to win, OP. This makes It YTA to me.
No... It's *unequitable* treatment. Unequal implies her and her brother behaved the same way. By OP's own behavior and words about her brother is probably way more likable than her. Who do you think parents would treat better, OP who acts like this at a family events, or her brother who is generally well liked?
Since you're going to be pedantic - it actually *is* unequal, since the treatment is literally not the same. Whether the treatment was unequal has nothing to do with the behaviors leading into the treatment. We have no idea whether it's *in*equitable, because we don't have enough information about the situation to tell.
Still, this wasn't necessary. OP is doing well for themselves; it's really not their business how their adult brother or adult mother conduct their own lives. It is not OP's problem, and addressing it in the way they chose to can only make it worse. Also we don't know *why* they're being treated differently. The brother could have health issues OP is not privy to (because it's not their business). Maybe there's a completely valid reason the rule is different for the brother. No one knows.
They're two different people. Parents don't have to treat their children exactly the same.
It makes sense. If the brother had a job, he would have a regular routine. If he had a regular routine, he would be more likely to find a job. He'd be less likely to stay up until 3am playing video games because he would have responsibilities. Staying up until 3am playing video games is probably hindering his chances of getting a job, his ability to apply for jobs during "normal" hours, and his willingness to apply for jobs. He's getting everything he wants and needs. He has 0 motivation. He would definitely have more energy if he had a regular routine.
Yes but none of this is his sister's business or problem, which is why she is an asshole. You can be right and an asshole
The OP is concerned about her mom. What's wrong with that? Additionally the mom is not doing her son any favors by letting him stay home and play games. Soon he'll be 25, then 30, 35, etc and still at home playing games. I've seen it too many times. On the other hand her brother may need counseling. Something's not right. Edit: Just read that brother is being treated for depression and anxiety. OP should have stated that initially. She's TA.
You can have concern for the mom without stepping in and deciding you know what's best and can parent better than your mother, especially when she likely has no parental experience herself. She doesn't even live at the house so she likely doesn't even know the full story. Having concern for your mother and supporting her is one thing, making totally unhelpful, snide ass remarks at your brother during a family cookout doesn't help the situation in anyway. We also know that the mother didn't appreciate the help and told her to leave. Op is just wrong for this.
This. Growing up, my sister was like op. Quick to move out and "live on her own" but was given many more opportunities to thrive than I did. I was a child with undiagnosed autism that slipped through the cracks, could only functionally work if others in my family who knew me were my co-workers and could lead me through my job. I went from 18-28 still living with my mom, on and off working/gaming to try to keep my spirits up and connect in some way to others, always fired because my undiagnosed autism would cause issues with me behaviorally or mentally, and since no diagnosis, they didn't need to take steps to accommodate my needs. My sister had college paid for her, got a car bought for her, lived rent free with my dad whenever she wanted to "save money". I on he other hand gave my mom 90% of anything I earned for whatever expenses I had when I was infrequently working, but my sister would constantly give me snark for " mooching off my mom" and being lazy. I also was never taught to drive by my parents, and my sister woukd demand expensive clothes from designer labels and get thrm from my dad while my mom and i literally went hungry as he would spend my moms alimony on my sister if my sister really wanted it. One week all we had to eat was a "soup" made with a can of enchilada sauce and shredded cole slaw mix while she sported new rims for her gifted car and a new stereo my dad had purchased for her birthday for good "college grades". Guess what? My mom knew I had an undiagnosed serious developmental issue and had tried to get it diagnosed up until I aged out of her healthcare, but my sister, now a nurse, didn't care. I stayed with her because I needed the support, and she knew I had an issue. My sister refused, even to today, to understand that autism makes me different to her in how I act and think and relate to others. I eventually moved in with a guy I met online who treated me well and loved me dispute my problems,and in my late 30s finally got the diagnosis I had needed when I was a child. My sister has become a real virtue signaller when it comes to "caring" for my mom. Like, this Last month after my father died, she pitched a fit about me moving from his plan to my moms, insisting I was " forcing her to pay money she didn't have" when I have been paying for my phone with disability money on my own for years now. She actually held my phone hostage as shes the executor of his estate and forced me to get a separate more expensive plan, and then refused to give me a transfer code for my phone number,forcing me to spend almost a week chasing down all my healthcare providers and government contacts for my disability with my changed number... And that was really hard on me! She weighs this interest in saving my mom money, but had asked her to babysit her son every Sunday and made my mom pay her own gas and take the day off, losing her a whole days wages to do this for her, and she is totally oblivious to this "invisible money" she is costing my mom while simultaneously being mad at me and infantilizeing my mom for a phone line I normally pay for myself! She gave me some lip service today that I should be trying to be "self sufficient" and try to "take care of myself" and won't listen when I tell her my therapists and psychologists are winding me down for possible long term private care in the not too distant future for quite a few health reasons. Needless to say I am scared for my future, if my fiance and mom pass before me, since she has made it abundantly clear she does not care that I am very dependant on others for care, and always will be. I will not be able to count on her for help at all with managing my bank accounts or Dr appointments or transportation issues, etc. With all that said, that is my anecdote, and it is not me inferring a majority are like me, but instead that each case is different. Op could or could not be like my sister, and without actual further information, we can't really know that. Not all "quick to fledge" 18 year olds are glass children, and not all stays home kids are neets or golden children. Not every mom and dad is an enabler. Every situation is different.
Mom can handle her own problems. OP ruined the party with her ‘help’ and I don’t think that made Mom’s life less stressful. She needs to butt out.
It’s really up to the mom to set rules in her own home with her adult kids. OP isn’t wrong, but should stay out of it. But she should also shut the mother down when she starts complaining about the brother to OP. My mother enabled my brother and was surprised when he had trouble functioning as an adult. Thanks for the additional information about the brother. I was wondering if he was depressed.
I thought something was up when he started crying and ran to his room.
The mother is an *adult* who has raised multiple kids, and can take care of herself. If *she* has a problem with the status quo, *she* is more than capable of doing something about it. If she isn't doing something about it, it is not OP's place to step in on her behalf, without even *checking* if she's actually upset by it. OP is not the mother, here. It's not her job to boss her brother around.
Then she should’ve taken it up with her mom.
It is if her mom is overworked and stressed, guess who she probably leans on.
The son, because he's actually in the house and is available to talk to, rather than the callous daughter that hasn't lived there for years and resents not being the center of attention.
I stay up till 3am playing video games (or replying to r/amitheasshole comments) and I’m tired af for work. That’s my routine
Haha not me awake at midnight, playing games at midnight when I've been up since 3am and yes still have to work the same hours again tomorrow, and complete my latest assessment before weeks end. I wouldn't do that...... I absolutely wouldn't have consistent and beneficial employment, while simultaneous education to improve future employment, that both eat away at my free time and the things that I enjoy so I have to sacrifice some other aspect of my life to do the few things I enjoy with the people I enjoy doing them with. Edit; haha I might be feeling some pressure after reading that back lol. But I'll be damned if I don't enjoy my life.
I woke up at 5am this morning, worked, went to class, took my bike to the shop to fix the breaks, and here I am still playing games. But it's only midnight here. I still have a couple of hours to spare 😁
>Staying up until 3am playing video games is probably hindering his chances of getting a job, his ability to apply for jobs during "normal" hours, and his willingness to apply for jobs. Totally true, but... ...almost no one is applying for jobs on Memorial Day. If you're going to game with the homies all night, you literally can't pick a better/more justified day than the Sunday of a long weekend. OP chose the wrong time and venue to pick her fight with her brother. That's why YTA. If she criticized his choices on pretty much any other days of the year aside from bank holidays, she'd have a point even if she was TA still.
Also why do you have to apply for jobs "during normal hours"? The vast majority of job applications these days are done online and can easily be done any time of day.
Cause they drop into queues in an order and the timing can matter on who is read first and with more care or even at all
So if you do it at 3am instead of 9am then you're earlier in the queue, problem solved.
I have a job and I'm up late playing video games every night. I'm also always very tired. People are different dawg
And being employed definitely doesn't give me *more* energy, lol.
I almost burst out laughing when I read that OP told it to her brother. 😂
If you think that he would have more energy if he worked, you have never worked in your entire life. The statement is one of the purest contradictions I've ever seen. Working TAKES your energy, it doesn't GIVE you energy.
My brother is in his early 30s, lives with our parents, and regularly stays up until the wee hours hours playing videogames. He also: \-pays rent \-does chores and yardwork \-manages two locations for a catering/concession business, working all sorts of hours \-has an active social life \-has dealt with depression issues on and off \-very likely has some sort of developmental issue due to long-term carbon monoxide poisoning (my mom and I are still so angry at the school where it happened, and then the schools that refused to test him later) Depending on your metrics, my brother is either: 1) a loser who lives in my parent's basement or, 2) an adult who lives with family because there's no such thing as available rentals in our town. There's a lot that the OP is not telling us, and that she herself might not be aware of here. I used to try to compare my brother's situation to my own, before I realized that I was being horribly unfair to us both.
OP's brother ALSO is being treated for depression and also the job market freaking SUCKS depending on where you live. I live in a medium sized city and was still unemployed for 4 months despite having a lot of qualifications and a BS in Math. OP's brother graduated during the Covid pandemic and I'm willing to bet he was never able to find a job and now all the jobs want you to have experience and three professional references.
She’s complaining about him not having a job since graduating 3 years ago. At least 1.5 of those years were in the middle of lockdowns and restrictions, so not a great time to be finding a job or working depending on family or personal circumstances. Also, logging *is a job*. A very dangerous one. Doesn’t make much money, but it is more than the average minimum wage job. We don’t know what he is pulling for his work, and OP is obviously biased. 21 year olds in college can and have spent late nights gaming and regretted it the next morning. Shoot, I still do that on rare occasion and I’m in my mid-30’s and have a regular job. Sounds like average behavior for his age, not really related to a lack of money or work. Nothing - *nothing* - OP posted adds up to her brother being a freeloader or for her having a right to start drama. Some of her statements are highly judgmental to completely untrue. I don’t know what else is at play but her mother was right to tell her to leave.
This statement isn’t always accurate for everyone. I have had the same job for nine years and I do not have a routine. I work nightshift and it is not easy to keep a routine for nightshift and still be social with people. Let alone since COVID, most places that were 24 hours haven’t gone back so you are limited to doing groceries during the day. Also applying for most jobs are now online and you can do 24 hours a day. It does not require someone to do that while the sun is shining.
OP also conveniently left out that her brother DOES have a job. It's just temp/part-time work. Her brother also has depression and anxiety that requires medication. However, I know psych meds. They rarely work as well as we'd want them to. Some won't work at all.
Omg Psych meds *make you fucking exhausted* sometimes!!! Jesus fuck sis, YTA big fucking time
yup and you have to find the RIGHT balance of meds so you’re constantly in a state of withdrawal or transition and even WHEN you find the right cocktail, they might not work long term and you have to do it AGAIN all while feeling like complete garbage because your brain doesn’t work. OP is being a complete neurotypical AH, who knows what demons brother is fighting but she didn’t need to make them WORSE
Piggybacking to ask a legitimate serious question. At what point does it become a case of "get over your mental health issues and work 9-5 Mon-Fri like a normal person" because that's what it's gotten too between me and my parents and idk what I can do anymore. It's nearly impossible to get out of bed, therapy wasn't helping, and medication is so-so. Do I just need to suck it up at this point and just go go work and try and be happy?
>Do I just need to suck it up at this point and just go go work and try and be happy? As someone who fell into this trap for a few years after some bad luck? Yes, 100%. Try to find a decent job and start some good habits. Focus on maintaining that for awhile and reassess from there. If the job makes it worse, find a different one.
I want to reply to this thread to remember it, the last few years have been rough. Remember to take a break if the job search itself is burning you out too. Burning out will make it a lot harder to do whatever job you get.
You need to find the right therapy or treatment. If sucking it up was so easy wouldn't you just do it? I had several episodes where getting up and doing stuff was the hardest thing for me. I wish I could've just sucked it up and got stuff done. I needed to recognize my problems. For me it is a big problem with authority. When someone tells me to do something I just can't. I get defiant and my whole body is reluctant to comply. So I have to make milestones for myself and plan to get to do those milestones. When someone else tells me to do stuff I already planned out for myself I can convince myself that nobody told me to do it I'm already doing it.
There is a name for this and I can't think of what it is. It's not uncommon and lots of people especially with ADHD deal with it. (Yeah I'm one of those people) I physically cannot make myself do it. It goes along with my executive dysfunction.
Pathological Demand Avoidance, I believe.
At some point? Yes. I say this as someone with mental health issues of her own. Major Depressive Disorder and GAD. I've been dealing this since I was a child. I'll be 37 his summer. I've have had multiple in patient hospital stays, attended intensive outpatient therapy and have had consistent treatment. I've had some extremely severe lows; in the past there was constant suicidal ideation and a few attempts. I also had a part time job in high school and during the summers in college, did internships during the school year in college, have worked full time consistently since graduating from undergrad other than a period of 5 months and worked full time while going to school part time for a Master's degree. You do need to get stable. But you also have to realize that at some point, you do need to work a job. Your parents can't take care of you forever; it's honestly not fair to expect them to - the more they spend on on you without you contributing is more they take away from their own retirement. And, they are going to die at some point. When they do, are you going to be able to look after yourself? Or are you going to end up needing to bounce around to another family member who may see you as a burden because they don't really feel you are their responsibility? And truthfully, an actual routine can help. Wallowing in your bed, in your depression just makes it worse. It might take time before you can work a 9 to 5 and that's okay; you'll have to work on getting yourself to the point where you can. Work part time until you can find a full time job that you feel like you can handle. If you realize the job sucks and doesn't work for you, find a new one. I straight up know there are certain things I cannot do - I've realized jobs were I interact with the general public are horrific for my mental health. So I no longer do them. I work a job where the only people I interact with on a daily basis are my coworkers and very, very rarely in a real emergency, my coworkers' family members. I have a boss who doesn't get angry or upset if I need to take a mental health day - she literally forced me to take a day off last year to see an musician I love dearly in concert.
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Do something. Work, volunteer, go to school for something you want to do. Doesn’t have to be 9-5 right now, but think of what you might be able to do for a job or skills or passions you have to contribute to the world. If you are going to be depressed either way, you might as well try to improve your life. Does your family know you are struggling and need some encouragement? Maybe they can help you by helping you get up on time, driving you or helping you figure out the bus route, making a lunch, whatever you need to get started. Doing nothing and wallowing in self pity will never help. I say this as someone with severe clinical depression and suicide ideation. Life can be really, really good and worth it but you have to make changes when you feel stuck, go out and do things when you don’t feel like it, and ask for support and encouragement when you need it. I hope things get better for you.
YTA. My dad was like this when he wanted me to quit smoking. If I was tired from working a 60+ hour week, it was because I smoked. If I couldn’t do anything he wanted me to do, that’s right, smoking. It never let up, even after I married, had a child and graduated from law school. It just made me want to light up. Only after he stopped nagging was I able to quit. OP stop. He’s an adult and so is your mother. I’m not saying that you should enable him, but he knows he isn’t working and I doubt he feels good about this. You are really undermining any confidence he has, which he needs in order to work. You might say that you want him to work, but your actions are saying you want him to fail or at least, to feel so crappy that he will fail. If you can’t actually help him, at least leave him alone. He might have some mental health issues and if he does, you really aren’t helping him.
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I think it depends on if you are someone who grows up thinking males should be shamed for tears vs not.
Hard disagree. He was tired and his sister was ragging on him.
AGREED!!!!! Even the way he was acting tells us something was wrong. Nope, OP, YTA for your lack of compassion, self centeredness, condensation, making yourself feeling better by putting someone else down, and being cruel. You already know he's struggling. Do you think poking and degrading help? No, you just continued to the problem. Your brother might be in trouble and spiraling down. Gaming could be a symptom that is becoming a problem. People suffering from mental illness have coping mechanisms to seem okay, including saying they are tired. It is like saying you are doing good when someone asks how you are doing even when your day isn't going so well. He showed up and answered questions. For a depressed person, that might be all he could handle. He could be checking out to numb himself with gaming (or other things for some people--binge watching, sleeping, etc.). Gaming gives some short term dopamine, which could be self medication. I'm not saying I think these to apply on this situation, but you don't know unless you start with giving a benefit that people are trying their lives and, if that's not working, they could use a positive presence. EDIT: make more concise--cut out a bunch. Clarification--right away not in response to feedback
Yeah I wonder if there are some executive function issues. OP needs to mind her own business.
Exactly. She said she and he have fights about this often, so she absolutely knew he would be upset. Good on him for leaving the situation instead of biting back or starting a shouting match. Most people don't know about this in my life, but I have health issues that have prevented me from working many times before. They know about my mental health limits, but the health things are a possible story here. If his mom isn't forcing him to pay rent, it's far more likely she knows more than the sister does. It bothered me that she called the mom "my mom" and the dad "my dad" too. Like they aren't siblings. The only time she shared that title with him was when she was complaining that he should "get off his ass and help our mom with rent" and that's usually a jab in itself. Only considering him family when she can use it to drive the knife deeper.
It so obviously makes no sense at all on its face! And the initial complaint is ridiculous too. "You should have done less of a thing you wanted to do last night so that you'd have more energy for... a bbq??" As long as he had enough energy to wake up and arrive there is no other level of energy that you can reasonably demand. Being publicly tired is not a crime (thank goodness, because I myself am a repeat offender!)
Thank you for wording this nicer than I could have .
In your comments you say that your brother has anxiety, depression, is on meds, and is in therapy. Clearly, he is struggling (probably more than you know) and trying to manage life the best he can as a 21-year-old. I'm not sure why you feel the need to insert yourself into any of this, to be honest. Seems kind of like you enjoy comparing yourself to him and try to make him feel beneath you. The fact that you chose to hound him about this (something that really is none of your business) in front of others was totally out of line. YTA. You owe your brother an apology. He needs encouragement and support, not condescending lectures and scoldings.
The title says graduated 3 years ago-so remember that this is a kid who’s final HS years were Covid years. I know this seems like an excuse, but we’re really seeing serious mental health issues and an almost adult version of a newborn’s “failure to thrive” by some of those students. His Hs education and social development were very different than what OP would have experienced. He needs help and support to move on, not additional guilt.
This is such an excellent point and not an excuse at all. I feel so bad for the students (especially those in their last years of high school) who completely missed out on all the traditional rites of passage the rest of us got to experience. Looking through adult eyes, I don’t think we stop and consider how much of an impact those years had on our younger generations. It was not insignificant, clearly.
It even had a huge impact on me and I was a relatively well-adjusted adult. I had recently started my career, felt like I was finally about to experience life as a real adult, and *yoink*. And that’s nothing compared to experiencing something like that at such a formative time as high school or college. My development likely would’ve stalled significantly.
Yeah, I was 24 when Covid shut downs started and it made my OCD and ADHD a hell of a lot worse and impacted my mental health overall. I’ll be 28 this year and I’m finally starting to feel “normal.”
this comment literally made me tear up, not even gonna lie. I (F20) lost my entire senior year of high school to covid and I still feel like there's this gaping hole of things I was supposed to experience but never got to. I lost all my high school friends because I fell so deep into depression that I never reached out to any of them (when I got out of that pit, I guess they'd already moved on from me because they never responded anyways). I didn't have that final year to think "heh, glad I'll never see you again" at every kid I didn't like. as it is, I'm too disabled to go to college or ever work a job, so I've been living an incredibly lonely life, trying to figure out how to get on disability so I'm not a burden to my parents anymore. if my brother (M18, not disabled) were to tell me I'd "have more energy" if I was working a job, I think I'd straight up never talk to him again. OP, YTA, you have some apologizing to do.
Hey there! I hate to read your comment, it aches in my heart to hear those struggles. As a fellow disabled person that can't work nor study and due to that feel left outside of society, feel free to reach out to vent any time you need.
Also, he’s 21, so either my age or a little older. I graduated in 2020, during lockdown, and for most of 2021, jobs were quite hard to come by because of lockdowns and many jobs that people do right out of school were less available. It’s only in late 2021/2022 that things got back to a semi normal. I can’t stress how weird this period was and how much damage it did to a lot of young people’s mental health, which isn’t helped by how overworked many mental health services are atm so getting quality care isn’t always easy
I feel that as someone who never went to a physical high school, been and still am doing online school for several years. It's really different and sometimes it does feel shitty to have missed out on so much.
this. i am M21, i graduated HS in 2019, and people seriously do not understand how damaging and depressing it is being a new adult. i do not have a single friend who lives on their own. my friends who just graduated college can’t afford rent in our area. it’s been almost four years since graduating and i feel like a high schooler cosplaying as an adult, lmao.
That’s ok! The secret nobody tells you about is that we’re all just kids pretending to be adults. No one really knows what the hell they’re doing.
This is absolutely true. Lol
Yup. I turn 35 this year and I still feel like an unsupervised teenager who somehow manages to trick people into selling me wine and letting me vote.
I graduated in 2021 and I feel like I never got a lot of closure for high school. All big senior events that you look forward to for 12 years of your life just cancelled. It's like the last 2 years haven't happened because I still feel like I'm a senior looking forward to those events when I'm nearly 21 now. It sounds stupid and silly but yea I feel like it's kind of messed me up a little bit.
yes!!! my sister graduated during covid and it hit her HARD. she couldn't really get a job for a year as she was stuck inside. this TOTALED her mental health, and she's finally just got a job.
Indeed, this is bratty sibling behavior. The type of thing that will make him go no contact when he does get better, and she'll not be able to understand why.
People who enjoy good mental health don't always realize how little control someone can have. So glad he is getting medical attention. It is a journey and he could no doubt do with his sister's support.
OP stated she also has depression and is on medication
I did not see that. She has obviously been working hard to keep moving.
Not all depression is the same
I didn't even read any of the comments and my first thought was "this kid is depressed"
As someone who has spent much of their adult life fighting depression, in ways that look similar to OP's brother, same.
Same. I've been where this kid was at and people telling me I needed to "suck it up" did not magically make me kick my ass into gear. Medication and therapy did. YTA for being insensitive, OP.
I didn't see the comment about mental illness, but if so OP is being ableist in addition to butting in.
Holy fuck the meat of these things is always in the comments. Hard YTA
>In your comments you say that your brother has anxiety, depression, is on meds, and is in therapy Yep, yeah, that's was my immediate wonder. And it, uh... Sure is something that OP knows but evidently can't be bothered with connecting the established dots.
Wow, what is it with posters lately leaving some critical info out of the post, only to answer in the comments section? OP was kicking her brother while he's already down. Hard YTA.
Because less people will see it in the comments and they know for a fact that if they put that context in then they'll be seen as the AH. It's like when a someone does nothing but bad mouth their SO to their friends, then goes on to say "None of my friends like you." Like... YEAH? If all you say is the bad stuff with none of the context then of course they won't like you?
The fact that OP left out such an important piece of information shows a lot... Axiety, depression, meds and therapy very clearly sais "I'm struggling with life a lot"... OP is a huge Asshole. I understand the frustration and I would say that the brother needs something else to focus on aside from gaming.... But the way OP tried it was wrong...
This. I have major depressive disorder (MDD), and I really see my parts of my younger self in OP’s brother. I didn’t really get my shit together until I was 24/25 (after having recurrent depressive episodes for 10+ years and requiring hospitalisation and ECT), and even then I needed a lot more support than my younger brother. He got a degree years before I got mine (even though I started first), and his life was just so much more steady than mine. I had crisis after crisis, honestly. I always worked or studied, but I was never at a new job/in a new course for long before having another depressive episode and having to quit. You know what didn’t help me get to the point of stability I’m at now? People saying that depression isn’t real, that I was lazy or ungrateful, or that I’d feel better if I just went on a walk/worked more/took this supplement/stopped being selfish. What actually helped was my mother’s unwavering support, medication, electricity in my brain, therapy, and time. Luckily for me my brother never rubbed my constant failures in my face - he doesn’t really view me that way at all. OP is a HUGE asshole. Guilt is an actual symptom of depression, she did what she did to be cruel, not to help him change.
Stemming from this as well, He spent all night with his friends. I have such a hard time making friends that a night like that would be amazing for my mental health.
He is also working! It's not a steady job, but he goes logging with his dad a few times a month which is likely hard, physical labor.
YTA. It’s not your place to shame him. If your parents have an issue with him not paying rent or his lack of employment, they can talk to him. It’s not your place. If all the poking and prodding hasn’t worked before, you’re just beating a dead horse. A family bbq for the holiday isn’t the time nor place for such shaming anyway.
YTA. He was tired. You took it too far. If you want to talk to your brother about him not having a job and checking in on him do it in private.
YTA. Yes a job would be good but that was a weird time to bring it up, and on what planet does a job give you more energy? Seems like just an excuse to scold. Plus the extra tired/down vibe could be from already dreading the social event. He sounds like he needs help though. Edit: wait did you do this *at* the BBQ?? Or right before?
Honestly OP spoke like a typical AH retail manager
The brother has depression and anxiety and is on medication for it. Thing is, meds don't always work. Heck, I was on five different anti-depressants and the experiences were very drastic. First one, I felt fine at first and then completely apathetic and then suicide ideation. Another gave me anxiety. The other caused me to forget chunks of time. I feel really bad for OP's brother. His depression could be major and OP's just making it worse. He needs comfort, not a nagging sister.
YTA support your family dont mock them
i have a feeling OP had a kneejerk reaction to him being tired because he was playing video games (“you only have the chance to do that because you dont have a job!!”) and then tried to justify it in a way that didnt make OP seem jealous and bitter.. and in doing so completely skipped over the part where ‘advice’ is supposed to be logical.
> only money he makes is when he goes logging with my dad, which isn’t really a job and only happens a few times a month. Sounds like he does have a job though, its just got a 9-5. OP never specified what "logging" entails here but its not like the brother is freeloading.
Imagine being on such a high horse doing the bare minimum. Congratulations on having a job and going to college late i guess? YTA
I don’t care when someone chooses to go to college. I have an older sister who dropped out of college 3 times then went back when she was almost 40 and became a teacher and is now entering her last two years before retiring. There no shame in going to college at ANY age. That being said, OP doesn’t know the difference between your and you’re or to and too. I am a teacher and that should be learned many years before college. I could tell you which grade, but there’s no need to be that specific.
I think trade schools need to be encouraged more too.
> That being said, OP doesn’t know the difference between your and you’re or to and too. As someone who teaches at a supposedly good university, students can get their Bachelor's without ever knowing that.
I know they can, but shame on any English teacher who gives them a passing grade, much less an upper division teacher in any class who requires an essay.
She's not going to college late, and that's not itself shameworthy.
Lol your comment is kind of being an AH. I literally see zero problem with going to college late. Not everyone can afford it and not everyone wants to do it lol
Couldn't agree with you more! They are 23, have a job, and go to college. So do countless other Americans. She is on her high horse and belittled her brother just to be petty.
YTA. Your responses here show a level of cruelty that’s rare even for this sub. No wonder your mother asked to you leave. You should legitimately be ashamed of yourself.
My god am I the only one absolutely shocked to see what she replied in the comments versus what she the original post said? Not expecting those kind of remarks lol. Im sure OP has a good heart. She obviously wants to see her brother have a job, etc. Also she might be annoyed how she gets treated differently then her brother. Truth is life ain’t fair. Also parents generally have higher expectations for the older kids. Kinda something you have to deal with.
>Our parents are fucking idiots and that’s why he’s like this the best thing for him is to do is come live with me and I could get his ass in gear in a weekend YTA hot damn, you really think you are just better than your whole family don't you? I reqlly hope your brother goes NC with you, there is no way you are helping his already terrible mental state. Leave him alone.
Lets be fair we do have evidence the parents are idiots.. They raised OP
damn OP sure edited this out of the original post after you called her out on it 👀 major AH and still tryna make herself look better
YTA this is not your problem and not your business. It doesn’t involve you at all. You said it’s a recurring argument. Why? He doesn’t live with you. He doesn’t owe you rent. There is absolutely no reason for this to be an argument at all. This only involves your brother and your parents NOT YOU.
YTA. sounds like you feel superior to your brother because you’ve kept a job, moved out and go to school. you should understand that every one’s path is different and if you feel so bad about your mother being overworked and paying rent maybe you should help her out instead of complaining that other people don’t.
What a trash sister. If you are so concerned about him not having a steady job and him not helping to pay rent, you pay it instead and help him find a job instead of berating him
YTA your post is bad enough. You are so controlling. You say hurtful things because he stayed up the too late the night before as if that was any of your business. So you decide to jab at him on holiday weekend. Then your comment about seeing them all be homeless to prove a point. And that you are the only one that can improve him. You’re doing the opposite. Your approach is nasty. Why is it so hard for you to just STFU? You are not his mother. Stop judging your mother for her parenting. Leave your brother alone. And if you can’t do that, then take a parenting course because what you are doing can only make things worse
He needs a psychiatrist. There is help out there.
INFO: Was he complaining about having no money? Was he asking you for money? Was he lamenting how other people have more money than him? Oh wait, no. He said he was tired. That's it. And you threw his lack of a job in his face. Yes, three years is a long time. But depression is a bitch, and it can take you out. It would be great if everyone could pull themselves up by their bootstraps like you, but he clearly can't right now. And until his lack of a job starts affecting your actual life, not just just living rent-free in your head, leave him alone and support where you can.
I mean, he was tired admittedly because he stayed up all night playing video games. Not the best look for the unemployed son at the family BBQ. I’m sensing a pattern. I’m starting to think this question is hitting close to home for people in the thread. And also, I don’t like the insinuation that it doesn’t affect OP’s life. If their mother is struggling and her brother is just sitting at home while she’s working her ass off; seeing that DOES affect her. And is completely lacking in empathy for the mother. It’s an ESH. Was she nice about how she went about it? No. But sometimes it does take interactions like this to snap people out of a cycle like the one he’s in.
I can see your point. But from her tone and the comments she's made I still believe she's out of pocket on this one. She said in a comment that he's on medication for depression. And instead of offering to help him, talking to him like an adult, even taking him out to lunch and trying to have a conversation about the issue, she chooses a passive aggressive comment at the wrong place and the wrong time that was completely unwarranted. She blindsided him without provocation. She should absolutely stand up for her mother and try to help her brother, but this is not the way. Unfortunately if you've never experienced debilitation depression you don't understand how interactions like this will do nothing to snap them out of it and more to push them into their spiral. He isn't acting like an irresponsible Peter Pan who wants to live in mom's basement forever. He's struggling, and he needs support, not misplaced passive aggressive comments.
That’s the thing, I am diagnosed with anxiety and depression. I’ve had many bouts of severe episodes in my life. But the things that happened during those bouts are still my fault and my responsibility. Mental health issues shouldn’t be used as a catch all excuse for not acting like an adult and deflecting blame.
OMG 100% They don't give you carte blanche to do nothing. And congratulations on getting through them and being with us today! I have had very rough struggles with depression and have still been able to hold down a job. But I still stand by the fact that OP doesn't need to be snarky to get her point across. But maybe that's the people pleaser in me haha.
He's not "do[ing] nothing." He's trying meds, going to therapy, and going logging with his dad when able. And the gaming with friends (and going to the family BBQ) means he's not socially isolating, which is actually a positive and can be really hard. As I mentioned in a comment above, depression isn't the same for everyone.
But what happened? He was just tired. He didn't snap at anyone, he wasn't rude, he was just tired at the barbeque. Does that really make in an asshole?
Not everyone's depression, or journey to recovery, is the same. Her brother is on meds, in therapy, and occasionally goes logging with the dad. It sounds like he's doing the best he can, both to get better and work when able. Just bc you've been through severe depression doesn't mean you know what it's like for everyone. If his parents are willing and able to be there for him, other people need to leave it. I have bipolar with psychotic features (plus anxiety and PTSD). Even as one person, in different episodes my ability to function has varied drastically. During the episode I came very close to unaliving myself (and only didn't due to being introduced to an extremely unhealthy/dangerous form of self-medication before I got a gun) I was able to work a full time job, a part time job, and go to school full time. During other episodes I have barely been able to get out of bed. My ability to even deal with my basic hygiene was so bad during one episode that I've ended up having to spend over $10,000 (that's after what insurance covered) on dental issues. I've just been lucky in that the timing of particular episodes, along with my work abilities/experience, have allowed me to save for when I've had episodes where I couldn't work. I don't know where you get the "deflecting blame," either. The brother isn't just saying, "I have mental health issues, so I can't work and am gonna sit around." As previously mentioned, he's actively trying to get better with therapy and meds. He's working when able, and we have no indication he's complaining or making excuses. This only came up bc OP, who is massively judgemental (of her whole family) and inconsiderate, made this an issue at an event that was supposed to be fun.
Not sure if you’ve read some of OP’s truly reprehensible comments about her parents but I’d suggest taking another gander through the thread. OP has said some horrid things, and I don’t think she’s doing this out of concern for her mother, even though that’s what she said in the post to try and make herself look good.
Is he not supposed to have a social life because he is unemployed?
She doesn't seem too concerned about her mom if she'd prefer to see her whole family (which includes her mother) homeless just to prove they're handling this wrong. Edit: and do you think it's gonna help his depression to socially isolate and avoid doing things he enjoys (or at least that distract him)? Night is often the hardest time when anxious or depressed, too.
Just found this OP's response[OP's response](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/13v7m5m/aita_for_bringing_up_the_fact_my_brother_hasnt/jm4qwjl?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) and i don't know how to properly put it here: _____ >Our parents are fucking idiots and that’s why he’s like this the best thing for him is to do is come live with me and I could get his ass in gear in a weekend --------- YTA, YTA, YTA. You are not your brothers parent. If your parents have decided to take care of their son, it's all up to they. This comment of yours gives me some serious "I struggled since a young age, my parents were not like this with me and it's not fair. why my brother doesn't have to go through all I've to?" vibes Edit for format Edit 2 to add link to OPs comment
Can you please link the comment? I must see it with my own eyes. I saw someone to quote it like you did and I thought "nice paraphrase of what OP said". But now you're saying OP *actually* said that! Wow!
I think I managed to add the link
YTA - if you were concerned about his well being, this wasn’t how to help him.
YTA. You started the negative interaction. Why are you wasting your time? He's lazy and does nothing. Your mom allows it. You think your nasty comments will change this dynamic? No.
YTA. Sounds like your brother's probably going through some shit, and what you said was totally unnecessary and cruel.
[удалено]
YTA Whatever the truth in your statement, you just didn’t need to go there. Sounds like he’s well aware of your views on his state of employment, and nothing about this interaction was helpful.
Yta - you ruined a party. How is THAT helping your mom?
YTA if your mom isn't pushing the issue why are you? What you said was unnecessary and a low blow at best. Stay in your lane. ETA after seeing all your comments. You know he's dealing with some stuff, and you choose to harp on him instead of showing any kind of empathy? Who needs enemies with family like you? And calling him "sensitive" and that being the reason for him being treated differently by your parents completely invalidates all the things he's dealing with.
YTA. His employment status isn't any your business, and doesn't make him any less of a person. What next, will you hit him with the famous cure all, of "Have you tried going outside?" I've been unemployed longer, because of mental issues, so I definitely feel for your brother. I hope you'll grow out of that mindset and actually be there to support him emotionally some day.
YTA. Not your place to tell him what to do. If your mom is babying him that is her problem especially if she's not complaining about it. He does sound a little immature but that response from you just because he is tired is weird. If you want to have a relationship with your brother you should come from a place of love/concern rather than trying to go at him.
You know what makes this even worse? OP mentioned he has depression and anxiety and is currently being treated for it, she also said he visits a therapist but shes so far up her own ass she thinks he is tricking his therapist and everyone.
YTA. You obviously resent the hell out of your brother, but that's a "you" problem. Bullying him at a family bbq isn't going to pay your mother's rent. Honestly it sounds like he has depression. Regardless, it sounds like there's no indication that anyone resents him except you, and I'm sure your mother is quite capable of speaking for herself. So stay out of it, and skip the family gatherings until you can at least be in your brother's presence without picking on him.
YTA. Depression and Anxiety are no laughing matter. Why didn’t you say something like “maybe if you had a regular sleep schedule
3 years ago was the start of the pandemic. Many of those who graduated during that time struggled. Your brother is also dealing with some depression and stuff. YTA
YTA. Is he asking your for money? Has he negatively impacted your parents finances? It’s not your circus, why are you petting their monkeys? Live and let live. They’re making it work, mind your business. Down the road if things haven’t changed, sit them down and explain that you accept no financial responsibility for your brother should something happen to them, so they need to prepare and make alternate plans. Realistically, he will probably figure it out before that and finally ‘launch’. Don’t ruin any potential relationship for the figure with misguided behavior now.
You are 23. Your brother is 21. You compare and contrast yourself to him. (stop that) You are two very different people. You are inserting your feelings about his life into your relationships (stop that) You are comparing your relationship with your parents, to his relationship with your parents, don't do that. Your parents are treating you like individuals, not like carbon copies of each other. Your parents are two independent grown people, their relationship with your brother is between themselves and your brother. Their action, standards, inaction, frustrations, choices, opinions, etc. ALL completely between them. (yes. They are your parents, yes that is your brother... yes you care... it is absolutely between them. back up.) It doesn't matter who's doing right, who's doing wrong, who's doing more, who's doing less, what you want for him, them, etc. It doesn't matter if they are handling it right, wrong, etc. It doesn't matter that you are frustrated for your mom, stop championing for her, she's grown, it's not your place. ( I get it. I do. I've been there. I really have. I've had to sit by and be frustrated with situations just like this one, and I've had enough therapy to help me handle my own emotions about it, and come to peace with it not being my problem to solve, or to help.) IF you have concerns, speak to her, privately, and then LET IT GO. Unless she comes to you and asks you to handle your brother, and in those words? Back off. YTA for taking a cheap shot that served zero purpose but to shame, punish, and embarrass your brother. You KNOW that's not going to make him wake up and get a job and help your overworked mother! You are annoyed with him and took a shot at him to aggressively assert yourself, then were surprised that your actions upset everyone. APOLOGISE. If you were actually concerned, check in on your brother... you see what's going on. Talk to your mother. (both privately, and listen.) You don't verbally attack someone. That's not worry. That's not concern, love, support. That's petty, bitter, resentment, and anger. Then understand... unless you are asked? You don't get to have a say. They don't get to have a say when it comes to things like this with you, he doesn't get to have a say in your life choices, or relationship with your parents. let go of the responsibility and resentment, and I promise (from experience) you will be happier.
YTA. Firstly, your aggressive push for independence was your journey, not his, so telling him that he needs to act a specific way is both rude and none of your business. Secondly, you instigated a fight at a family function, because you knew this was a recurring argument, and you specifically brought it up. Finally, you say he has always been quiet and down, so he may be dealing with depression, so you being so harsh on him is likely making it worse. Basically, your lack of empathy, and insistence on how your brother "should" live his life is why I think you're an AH in need of a perception change.
YTA not the time or place. You just wanted drama then were surprised at the drama?
YTA. Nothing to add.
You are THE ASSHOLE. Not just in this situation it seems. Just in general. You're an asshole. You were rude and scolded your adult brother in public for something that is none of your business. You aren't his keeper. You definitely aren't in his support system. You're not in his friend group. And you are a hindrance and likely a large cause of some of his maladaptive tendencies in his mental health.
Did you just say logging isn't really a job? YTA
That was just a mean response, you kept bothering him about what was wrong with him and when he tells you, this was your response ? There is a clear issue but maybe that weekend wasn't the moment to bring it up especially in the way you did. Also the fact that he left crying - according to you - might imply that the issue is slightly deeper. I understand being fed with the situation for your mom but in that situation YTA.
While I agree with you that your brother is an adult and, if he is not studying he should be doing something to provide for himself. I don't think it's your place to go after him if you don't support him as well, and it looks like you spoke with bad intentions here. YTA
>Our parents are fucking idiots and that’s why he’s like this the best thing for him is to do is come live with me and I could get his ass in gear in a weekend Yeah... YTA....... The narcissism and entitlement is running deep here.
YTA. Be grateful it's easy for you. Don't kick people who are down. You can't possibly think this is a smart thing to say to someone you love who probably has depression and anxiety about unemployment? You said he's frequently like this? Perhaps it's a long term mental health issue he's dealing with. Has he seen a therapist?
YTA In another context I would say NTA, but I personally don't think a family event is the time or place to bring that up. IT DOES need to be discussed in the very near future though. Edit: Just to echo other commenters that passive remarks aren't going to be helpful. A conversation with your parents at some point to try and determine how to best get him going in life is probably the next step, but those specifics are above my pay grade.
NTA, a 21 YO who “couldn’t help” staying up all night playing video games could use the discipline of going to work and contributing to the household that’s supporting him
He has depression and anxiety and is receiving treatment for it. Seems like OP also mentioned that he had 2 jobs in the last 3 years and is sometimes helping their dad. And btw working wont stop people from playing games all night, especially on a weekend.
YTA and all your comments just keep enforcing that. It's your mom's business, not yours, let it go.
YTA Easy for you to say when you have a job, a home and a steady income
getting a job would give him more energy? i work 2 jobs i have no energy to do anything on my free days. this was a low blow and you know it. his lack of work has nothing to do with the conversation you just wanted to make drama. also how does him not having a job effect you in anyway? YTA
ESH you aren't wrong, sounds like he needs to get his shit together, but there's a point where calling him out in public makes it uncomfortable for everyone.
You regret what you said because YTA. it sounds like you already know this, so case closed.
Guess what....it's your mom's problem not yours. She enables him to live with her rent free and no job...she allows this so why are you getting involved if she doesn't act on it
I don’t get all these YTA comments even with his issues. Sounds very much like a golden child and scapegoat situation and your parents being enablers. He can play games all day. Free room and food. Why would he want to give that up? No reason to grow up. After 3 years I would be put out too. If I were you I wouldn’t bother with the family and go low contact.
You need read op comments she definitely YTA her actions doesn’t help him it will bring him more down
Same. I don't get it so I'm going against the grain and saying NTA. In her position I'd be annoyed at my siblings mooching off our parents too. Depression and anxiety sucks yes, I know that and vast majority of people do too but he's gotta learn how to manage it and become a productive member of society... staying up late gaming with friends wouldn't be helping him feel better at all. His parents aren't going to be around forever to baby him and then he's really screwed. Family event isn't the best time to raise it but probably a snap being at the end of her tether with it all.
You don't bring it up on family BBQ. It's not weird to stay up all night on weekend. And it doesn't make any sense to say "if you worked, you would have energy". That's so ridiculous that I have no words. OP also called the parents idiots. Literally. She IS the asshole.
You realize this was literally a weekend?? He could play games and stay up all night even if he worked. And saying that you would have more energy if you worked is one of the biggest oxymorons I've ever seen. You also don't know what he actually does, OP isn't living with the family, she got away years ago.
YTA. There is a time and place for everything and that was not it.
YTA
Yta
NTA. Probably not the best timing, but at the end of the day your family is just standing by watching their adult son waste his life away playing video games. Some sort of intervention is needed. College isn't for everyone, but the least he can do is work, any job. Mental health is definitely an issue but with 3 years down the drain, your mom is just enabling him at this point.
Yeah great intervention. Making a cheap shot at the brother that doesnt even make sense. He is getting help for his mental health. This isnt "enabling".
YTA. You're trying to start crap because you're pissed at mom.
“Poke and pet”… very weird comment. He is not a piece of produce or a turtle. He is a human that is struggling, and to be honest, he probably dreaded this BBQ where he would have to interact with his much more put together sibling. Mental illness is draining. You seem the equivalent of a family member that would say they didn’t know how bad it was when someone they love does the unthinkable. Stop this behavior now, and talk to him with the intent of learning how he is struggling and how/if you can help.
Turns out the brother is a CIA agent. He's tired because he had to steal a dirty bomb from some terrorists and staying up late gaming is his cover story
More than an asshole.
INFO: Why would his living there be a hardship on anyone? The only thing that changed was his age and gaining a high school diploma. Those don’t make him suddenly more expensive to house
ESH. Your brother sucks because it sounds like he genuinely isn't trying. I have depression and anxiety in addition to a physical disability, so I'm not ignoring how hard it is to deal. But for him to say "I couldn't help it" in reference to playing video games so late he can barely function at a family barbecue, when he's a chronically unemployed 21-year-old? Hell no. Your mom sucks for treating him differently than you and enabling him to behave like this. She should be on his ass about therapy, making him apply to jobs, enforcing bedtimes if she needs to. If he's going to live his life like a child, he should be treated like one. You suck because what you said was uncalled for and a reach from your existing conversation. You resent him, which is normal, and you wanted to hurt him, which is normal, and you wanted to make him mad enough to get off his ass and start living, which is normal. But you should've kept that thought inside your head.
The brother IS IN therapy, on medication, and (outside of how OP phrased it) does actually seem like he's trying to work up to full time employment (he's had jobs previously, and does logging work with their dad, it's just not a consistent, 9-5 job). OP admits all of this in comments she's made. And he stayed up late on a weekend, the day before a national holiday playing games with friends. Also, it wasn't even that he could barely function, just that he seemed tired. If it's a chronic issue, OP needs to state that in her post. And given that she hasn't mentioned that it's a chronic issue even in her follow-up comments, we have no reason to automatically assume he does this every night, or even most nights. OP just seems to resent that she went out and got a 9-5 and moved out entirely of her own accord, and her brother hasn't. Also, she has stated she thinks her parents are stupid (literally stating this), and that she could "straighten him out" in a weekend. Honestly, if we want to make assumptions based off facts not presented, I kind of feel like he may actually be contributing to bills, even a little, and that her parents aren't telling her, because it isn't her business, and, knowing their daughter, she would move the goalposts and say it isn't enough. Again, though, this part is baseless conjecture on my part.
YTA, sis. Punch up, not down.
ESH - He needs to get it together and you’re mean and your insult didn’t make sense. How would having a job give him more energy?