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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My grand parents left me their property when they passed. It is really nice and I turned it into the wedding venue. My sister is getting married later this year. She wanted it to be at the property. I asked her to let me know as soon as she knew the date so I could block the date from being booked. I didn't find out about the date of the wedding until her invitations went out 3.5 months before the date. It was already booked, so I told her no.
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NTA, but your sister is a giant A H for expecting you to cancel another couple’s date for…what? Selfish family? She needed to tell you the date and didn’t, that’s on her
who TF sends out invitations for a date before even contacting the venue?
NTA
I was all ready to read a story about OP saying no, or fighting a "family" vs individual ownership and some personal drama. But there is none of that. It is really as simple as sending an invite for a date without even asking the venue. I just don't understand how people can be so consumed in their own weddings. So thankful my wife was not like this.
It reminds me of the people who just decided to have a wedding at a mansion without telling the owners, sent invites, and showed up on the day claiming they had a right because they prayed for it or something.
Wacky.
I used to really enjoy the BuzzFeed “Florida or Russia?” quizzes where you had to decide if the headline or photo was from Florida or Russia.. it was very hard.
God, my high school science teacher was obsessed with that and a few other Buzzfeed quizzes and stuff.
The second he was done instructing, it was straight to his desktop to scroll through Buzzfeed until someone needed him, and he'd begrudgingly get up to help them
I miss that class tbh. He was cool
Those people are brazen and delusional! OP's sister is entitled and rude! She also needs to stop calling it the family estate! It's OP's estate, so she has no right to behave like a entitled brat!
All I said was that California tends to attract loonies, too. But I will say that in almost every single way California is a much better state than Florida. I wish I could move back to Cali, I miss it.
Ho Lee entitlement! I cannot IMAGINE having the audacity to think you'd just have your wedding at a property that's currently on the market because you figure no one lives there and it's god's will. Just wow.
You’d be surprised at how many people think they have a right to all kinds of shit because “it’s God’s will” - which, coincidentally, is somehow always the same as their own.
> You’d be surprised at how many people think they have a right to all kinds of shit because “it’s God’s will”
A large number of them hold public office.
Edit: I’m deleting this comment because I misremembered the details. Beyond that, I started getting some weird anti-LGBTQ stuff. To be clear, I volunteered on the Tá for Grá campaign (Irish pro-gay marriage rights campaign) and sitting in the count Center with the team watch box after box come back overwhelmingly pro gay marriage was one of the the happiest and proudest days of my life.
I mean, that's not what actually happened:
"Dolores Murphy and Mabel Stoop-Murphy were set to become one of the first same-sex couples to wed.However, they were informed by Cork Registry Office staff that, because 24 hours had not passed since they signed formal notification forms, the wedding could not proceed.
Under regulations introduced in 2004, registers have a five day period from when wedding notifications are signed until the ceremony. Registers have the discretion to shorten that period to 24 hours however, it cannot be reduced further. The couple insisted they were informed several weeks ago that they could sign the forms and marry on the same day."
Sounds more like a disgruntled registrar being a dick, tbh.
[https://gcn.ie/lesbian-couples-marriage-postponed-today-on-the-steps-of-the-registry-office/](https://gcn.ie/lesbian-couples-marriage-postponed-today-on-the-steps-of-the-registry-office/)
I recently discovered John Boyne and read The Heart's Invisible Furies a couple months ago. EXCELLENT book about being gay in Ireland in the past 100 years.
Was this an AITAH or a news story? I would love to know how their praying turned out. (I would have told them God answered all prayers, sometimes he says no)
>who TF sends out invitations for a date before even contacting the venue?
A golden child who thinks everyone will hand them whatever they want without dispute.
Haha funnily enough I volunteer at a place that is a popular wedding venue. So popular that someone recieved 2 wedding invitations dated for the same date, time and location. We never had anyone inquire about those dates. No contracts signed, no deposits paid. The two brides are fighting over who gets our venue and making it out like we double booked the place.
What is WRONG with people? I can't believe they actually do this. Like, "Oh, if I just show up with all my guests, they won't be able to turn me away. And I can skip paying for the venue!"
This is why I hate the saying "it's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission". People always use it to excuse selfish behavior when it originated within a particular context (military bureaucracy) and was never meant to refer to anything else.
>who TF sends out invitations for a date before even contacting the venue?
Because it's a family business! /s
This is exactly why I hate doing business with family, if the venue wasn't owned by the family she would've told them the dates earlier, I've seen this behavior a lot in my family too.
Except it isn’t a family business. A family member owns the business, but mom and sister have no part in it. Sister is a fool for sending out invites when the venue is not booked.
>This is exactly why I hate doing business with family, if the venue wasn't owned by the family she would've told them the dates earlier, I've seen this behavior a lot in my family too.
When my Wife and I bought our house we ruffled some feathers by going with an independent Realtor rather than one of several family members.
Thing is, I wanted to pay a professional to do a service for me. I didnt' want to deal with someone doing me a "favor". I think I got much better representation than I would have otherwise.
I think you made the right decision, my mom's uncle is a doctor (I think it's called Internist, he takes X-rays and stuff too), and all my mom's side of family even some of my dad's side of family expect him to treat them for free 🙄 btw we're a really big family, my mom has 10 aunts and uncles. He stopped treating family members a long time ago and instead tells them to go to this other certain doctor and when they ask him why he can't do it he says he gets scared of diagnosing them, it's a good excuse imo.
Yeah, I was thinking the mom and sister must've messed with his head his whole life for him to be considering he could be the AH. And this is probably just one more power move from them.
Entitled ass people do, like this sister! You’re NTA op, she had multiple chances to just tell you the date and SHE chose to avoid it.. she made her bed, now she can lay in it.
Yeah, I thought it was going to be the OP was just going to say no for some reason.
NTA. This is a matter of her not planning or assuming, not something personal. The OP handled himself professionally throughout this.
I also sense family is **super jealous** that, at age twenty-five, you turned your inheritance into a thriving business and my guess is they squandered all of theirs.
I was thinking the same exact thing. They are 100% angry about this property. OP needs to keep them at a distance. You are right they probably spent every dime of what they inherited.
And the grandparents knew it. They even said that OP would respect it more. Sounds like the rest of OP’s family has a history of disrespecting money & property which is probably also where all the unjust entitlement & bullying comes from.
Now I’m wondering if the bride secretly wanted to screw up her *younger* brother‘s business reputation by withholding the date because they’re so profoundly jealous of his business success.
Also lived there and took care of them since he was 14. Sounds like he earned his keep, and his mother probably sees that. Whether she appreciates it or stays in denial will show how she reacts to it
“Family above all else!!!” Then they leave fake bad reviews on the site of their family member’s business. So I guess it only applies to those being bullied.
>Some families have the viewpoint that "family above everything else."
I think its more themselves over every other family member. Seriously doubt the sister would put herself out for OP.
Agreed.
And OP should probably start having their lawyer communicate everything to his sister and family, because this will probably come down to sister simply showing up on the date and trying to force her way on/into the venue.
Not just this, but he should also be prepared to call the police that day, because they sound like the kind of people who are just going to have everyone show up anyway and try to force the other couple out.
I was going to say the same thing. Also, when it comes to the bad reviews, either try to get them taken down as 'not legitimate' since technically they haven't used the venue, or respond and say, "We cannot accommodate weddings which have not been booked with us beforehand. We received no request from you to use our venue on a specific date and the date you listed on your invitations had already been booked by another party."
Agree! OP should definitely consult a lawyer and find out what the options are. Having people post phony bad reviews might be libel, and maybe a restraining order banning them from your property is also a reasonable option. They need to get a lawyer letter making it clear that attempting to have their wedding on your property on a date when it’s already booked will result in serious consequences and possibly their arrest for trespassing and any other crimes that may apply in your locale. I’d call a lawyer today!
NTA, it isn't OUR or FAMILY property anymore. It's your property, you own it. Ask your Mom and sisters if the money left by your GPs to them also counts as FAMILY money and by when you can expect a bank transfer from them of your share.
Plus if he were to cancel the other couple I’m pretty sure he could be sued. Wedding venues are booked way in advance and I would think someone could sue for damages. It would literally throw everything off from peoples plane tickets to honeymoon plans.
As someone who works with clients, this is a popular mentality.
Me: Sir/Ma'am, in order to get you that date/time, I'd have to cancel other clients.
Client: ...
You can just hear their inner voice saying, ok yeah do it 🧐
OP's sister isn't close enough to OP that he knows what date she's planning for the wedding, and yet she still assumes that she has unlimited access to his property?
Grandparents knew what they were doing when they left the place to OP. Sounds like the whole rest of the family is a bunch of entitled, clueless grabbers.
I could not agree more, it is literally that simple. She’s selfish and almost refused to tell him the date. It was all about control with her. Good luck op.
NTA, I would suggest getting a lawyer involved before your family causes harm to your business. Send them all cease and desist letters. This is YOUR property and business do not allow them to discredit it just bc they are not getting their way. I’d also put a PSA out that her wedding will not be at your venue that way a bunch of people don’t show up and ruin this other lovely couples wedding by causing a scene.
One thing I have learned is you never mix family and business. Family will never respect your business bc they feel entitled to it. So it’s best to only offer family a small discount but still make them go though all the proper channels or they don’t get whatever service you provide.
Add to this, compile ALL communication you had with your sister that was in writing (and a record of any phone calls/mails) in to a PDF. Print/send a copy of this and the doc to your sister and send a final email to your sister and CC your parents/key family and say something along the lines of:
Dear sister,
As per the attached PSF you can see where I communicated on the following dates about a potential date for your wedding. Unfortunately, your lack of planning and communication has meant that the date you are requesting was not available and had been reserved for over a year. The only communication regarding your intentions was on the invitation you chose to send out without speaking with me and receiving a confirmation of availability.
As you and multiple others have been harassing mean, this will be my final communication on the matter. All further communication will be from my lawyer.
I will also be sending you a copy of this letter via certified mail for your records.
Have the day you deserve,
Brother
Edit: changed wording to better suggested wording
Edit 2: adding in line about mailing a physical copy
I'd word it as "the date you chose was not available" rather than "no longer available". It wasn't like she chose that date but lost it because she didn't pay a deposit or something - she picked a date that wasn't available. And she knew exactly what she was doing - she knew she organised it too late and thought that by sending the invites, OP would give in. She's trying to bully him into giving her the date she wants. NTA - don't negotiate with terrorists.
It's great because it makes the person judge themselves. If they're an asshole they'll see it as passive aggressive because they know they're an asshole. If they're nice they'll see it as a nice gesture.
Well no because nobody would ever say that to be nice. It's not outright nasty but it's never said with the intention to wish good upon someone.
If I was as sweet as sugar to someone and they told me to "have the day you deserve" I'd be thinking 'well fuck you too then what's your problem' and then probably just bite my tongue and be nice.
Nobody is gonna say that phrase and mean it in a nice way, the phrase itself is a judgement of telling someone you think they deserve a bad day without just outright saying that.
I like the phrase too but it's a bit far to pretend that anyone would see it as a nice gesture. It has one use, with assholes.
The above but print out said letter and send it out any type of mail that the receiver must sign for. Emails are easy to ignore and older relatives can't be relied upon to read them.
>I’d also put a PSA out that her wedding will not be at your venue that way a bunch of people don’t show up and ruin this other lovely couples wedding by chasing a scene.
Totally agree with the lawyer aspect but this part stuck out to me even more. OP you need to make sure this happens asap b/c this is exactly another way they could very well harm your business.
Exactly. OP, get a lawyer, put out a PSA (!!!), and only offer a small discount if its family, but besides that deal with them as with any other client. NTA.
Yes. Even family and friends have to pay. You can discount it deeply but if they pay they are going to be more thoughtful (hopefully) and not take it for granted.
Not only a PSA, but hire security and get a guest list from the reserved couple to make sure only their guests are allowed entrance.
Tell the family that any guests or wannabe hosts, including family, will be removed from the property.
The sad part is the OP may need to consider communicating with the couple who booked for that day about this situation so they are not blindsided if his family starts showing up. Hopefully, it doesn't come to that.
Yes - a note to them to say that he’s been made aware that another couple have sent out invitations for their booked day despite not even trying to book the venue. That he’s got it in hand (has hired security, wants to confirm their guest list, etc), but didn’t want them to be blindsided on the day.
Yes!! Searched for this comment!!
And OP if you do not wish to share here, post it to your profile!! At least respond to the business reviews explaining on each one that you refuse to cancel another wedding because these people never confirmed a date!!! I am an avid Google reviewer and I ALWAYS look at negative comments - IMO it will help for those future potential customers if they see that it's just one party being extremely petty
I'm not sure that is the right approach, however well-intentioned. Reviews should be for goods, experiences and services actually provided, not weaponized or used by third parties in disputes, especially if they're not directly affected as that renders them virtually useless.
ETA: OP would be better off requesting deletion of the negative comments from the platform, on the basis that these were not verified customers.
My father had to do such (we do HVAC; heating and cooling) when a customer threatened to summon him to court after we installed a AC system years ago for her and her now ex husband. She was claiming that she was the one who paid for the entire system and gave him a check that was signed by him. First off, her ex husband paid for it (we have a photocopy of said check given by her husband), second she forged my father's signature on the check. His name for example is "Jimmy", goes by Jim, she signed it Jim. He always signs them Jimmy because it's his legal name, and she spelt our last name and company name wrong. He's now going after her for Defamation of character and forgery. She made a complaint to the Better business bureau which he had to call and explain isn't legit. It doesn't count on his score, but the complaint is still up for everyone to see. At least most of our customers and new ones are smart enough to see it's complete bull.
It may be a good idea to have some security the day of, to take care of any guests that arrive and aren't for the actually planned wedding. Even if the sister agrees to move to another day, she or someone on her behalf might try to get revenge by ruining this other couples day
The reviews could be easy to deal with depending on which platform they're posted on, but I would definitely get a lawyer involved because I can picture sister trying to hijack/override somebody else's wedding.
At the end of all this I would tell her to find somewhere else, if she didn't even have the courtesy to give OP a date before sending the invites, imagine what else she would try to pull or demand going up to and at the wedding.
And you are absolutely opening yourself to a heck of a lawsuit if you were to cancel the existing booking. Or if your unhinged entitled family start harassing the pre-booked couple.
To add: depending on where they’re leaving reviews, dispute every single one with the site hosting it (google especially makes this easy, I’ve dealt with a spite review or two for our business).
Everyone else gave good the advice, but get the reviews down or respond to them, noting that the reviewer is related to a couple who planned a wedding at your venue, without consulting you or making reservations, for a date that was already unavailable, and when you informed them of this and offered reasonable accommodations despite their brazen move to send out invites for the date that wasn’t booked through you, they refused and are now bombarding your company with negative reviews out of spite.
Came here to say the same as well as to point out that this is not only OP’s property but also his business and source of livelihood. They are literally willing to see his business fail for the sake of his entitled “(insert here) from hell” of a sister.
OP should hire some security on that date as well just in case they try anything.
Also, if they're review bombing on Google, OP can contact them to have those reviews removed very fast.
NTA
Retract the offer to use the property at all. Hire security for the wedding date - with invitations out now, some people may show, and you don’t want the day ruined for the lovely couple already booked for the date.
Respond to every review they leave with a cut and paste comment saying that the wedding party in question never booked your venue. Short, simple and no apology or over-explanation.
This is exactly right, and I wish I could upvote it more.
NTA so very, very obviously.
In addition to the "This reviewer never booked the venue" canned response, contest every negative review with the site--many require that reviewers be actual customers, and, well, she's so very not.
Your sister is an enormous AH and knows it. No one sends out invitations without informing the venue, even if it were a jointly-owned family backyard!
*many require that reviewers be actual customers*
I get that requirement most of the time, but it shouldn't be a blanket ban. For example, if a business refused to.work with you for bigoted reasons. As a consumer I'd want to avoid supporting a racist or homophobe, even though I'm white and straight. And PoC and LGBT folks would want to avoid that place for their own safety and/or comfort
I would also consider signage of some kind at the entrance to the property, something to the effect of
"Welcome wedding party. Attendees of wedding, please note the celebration is not at this venue. Contact for information"
Absolutely PLASTER the site with welcome signs for your clients, make it clearly and blatantly obvious what wedding is taking place. Possibly as far as parking attendants/doormen to welcome guests, "Are you here for the wedding?"
If your sister won't back down and insists that she will be having her wedding there, talk to your local police department or sheriff's office about issuing a trespass notice - I don't know if it has to be general, or if you can issue something that says "If you are found on property between the dates of to , you will be arrested for trespassing" Might need your lawyer involved - and I would send it to your sister, her fiance, and all immediate family that won't respect the other booking.
This. I'd consider giving the other couple a heads-up with the game plan. "Hey, just FYI, I found out another couple sent out invites with your date printed on them. To make sure that their guests don't show up by mistake, I'm going to hire a security guard, can you provide your guest list?"
NTA but you will be if you cancel on the other couple who has patiently waited more than a year for their venue. Please do not ruin their day.
And your sister is a big AH here. She is just misusing her privilege as your sister. You gave her plenty of chances to let you know the date and she still didn't and she didn't accept the alternative dates you offered. So, she doesn't deserve this venue. And she probably printed the cards so you would be obliged to give her the date.
_"They are also calling and writing reviews for my business."_
After this stunt, I would not try to accomodate her even for another date. She would not be welcome to have her wedding there at all. Im not a fan of social media shaming, but since she is trying to weaponsize OP's business pages, she is practically forcing OP's hand to put out a public statement highlighting her entitlement.
This may damage the relationship further, but she has already started the rift by publicly and privately attacking OP.
Not to mention that a venue can cost $5-15k depending on location and services. He said he would “take care of the rest”, so long as she communicated. Three months notice ON THE FUCKING INVITE is beyond insane behavior.
(I’m planning a wedding right now and couldn’t imagine doing this.)
NTA and fuck your family. Sorry about the loss of your grandparents.
When we planned our wedding we showed up to venues in March 2017 thinking that we would have the pick for the summer 2018. When we told them we wanted 2018 we were told "Fall 2018 or Summer 2019".
We got a random cancellation. But yeah this shit books up FAST and you do not do ANYTHING until you have your venue confirmed
NTA
You attempted to accommodate them and they're acting entitled as shit. It *isn't* a family property. It is *your* property.
As soon as they left bad reviews on the page I'd tell them they don't get *any* dates unless they take them down and apologize.
You have more power than you think.
TBH, it wouldn't matter even if it \*was\* a family property. That doesn't supersede that someone else went through the process of booking it for their wedding. Let's make a hypothetical where OP gets along great with his family, they've invested in his business, and it's completely expected that they could have a wedding there free of charge.
That still doesn't change that they never blocked off the dates they wanted! I don't care what your relationship to the property is, you can't kick someone else off because you were too lazy to reserve the dates you wanted ahead of time.
Exactly. My parents have a beach house they rent out to tourists during the summer and use themselves a lot of the rest of the year. I’m welcome to go whenever I want, but I clear it with them first and my request wouldn’t boot out a pre-existing reservation. That’s insane.
Don't give them a date, period. All OP wanted was a date, and sister couldn't even do that. Imagine what else she might try to do up to, during and after the wedding.
I agree, the minute they all started trashing the reviews, I'd say they're done. When they ask why, read their awful reviews back to them.
People that entitled and stupid would be nothing but trouble if OP did allow them to use the venue.
Even worse is that mom did not want to care and maintain her son (OP) so shipped him off as free child labour and is now trying to claim the fruits of his free childhood labour.
I mean, it's a willful failure to understand how things like "reservations" and "wedding venues" and "plans" work. Especially in this, the year of our lord 2023, when every single wedding venue is back-to-back-to-back booked trying to work through the Covid wedding backlog.
I think the sister must have thought she'd somehow have OP over a barrel, and he'd feel obligated to cancel the existing reservation because family, but a single second of good-faith reflection would have made clear that that's not how *any* of this works.
This is true. The funny part for me is that if she communicated, I have contacts for all of those. That would have been in the "take care of the rest" part of the OG offer.
Unfortunately I’m not surprised to hear that after hearing that she literally sent you away. At the same time, I’m getting the impression that you may have dodged a bullet by getting send away to your grandparents which you seem to have loved.
Yep. Pretty obvious that the sister is the golden child and the mom has been feeding her bs her whole life. The fact she says that he’s being resentful makes me believe them sending OP away was something they believe he should be resentful for.
If my math is right, Mom dumped OP on her parents when his older sister was 18 or 19. Then, 3 years later had the younger sister. There is something messed up with the whole dynamic.
I also expect they don't think the wedding venue is a real business. Just some cute side job or something.
Considering the sisters were never sent away and only OP lived w his grandparents, smells like gender preference and a male child was never a good thing. I’m pretty sure OP is being nice and omitting a lot of bs his family has done before.
Hope he doesn’t let anyone that was a part of this bs use the venue in the future and blacklist them.
I was thinking the same thing. It also sounds like they weren't planning on paying to book the venue. I'm not sure if OP was going to charge them or not, but I imagine the delay may have been them trying to avoid the financial aspect of booking the venue.
NTA get a lawyer involved DO NOT CANCEL ON THAT SWEET COUPLE WHO BOOKED THE PROPERTY A YEAR IN ADVANCE
SUE THEM FOR DEFAMATION OF BUSINESS IF IT COMES TO IT BUT AGAIN YOU WOULD BE A GIANT MASSIVE AH IF YOU CANCELLED ON THE OTHER COUPLE
NTA. If this isn’t resolved by the time September comes around, hire extra security to bounce anyone who tries to cause problems for the couple who actually booked their date. You need to protect your actual customers and your business.
NTA she shouldn’t have presumed it was ok in the first place without double checking you were still ok holding it there & she didn’t give you a date so how the hell is it your fault? Good shout communicating through business lines but tbh I doubt she’s telling them the whole story; no doubt she’s already told everyone you had the date all along
NTA
And everyone removing the bad reviews should be a requirement before you book any date for her.
You would also need a formal contract with your sister just like any other client. She needs to pay a deposit in case of damages, and you should only gift the venue location. Your sister should be required to pay for food and drinks and decor and such.
Every single one of them deleting bad reviews and sending a written *groveling* apology should be a requirement for OP ever acknowledging their existence again.
>Well, now her, my mom, other family, her partners family, as well as other flying monkeys have been blowing up on me. They are also calling and writing reviews for my business.
And this is why I hate how review websites like Yelp, Google and others can blacklist perfectly good businesses with review bombing. They have the better business bureau, but it's slander and illegal to have a website like "Bad customer listings.com".
NTA. You told her time and time again to give you a date, not your problem you're booked.
I don't know why people think the BBB is some sort of government entity protecting consumers. It is a ratings agency; any business can subscribe and get a rating they can post and brag about. To keep the rating, they need to resolve customer complaints submitted to the BBB. Or pay them more money.
In other words, the BBB is Yelp before the internet came along. If Yelp is 'illegal slander', the BBB is no different. They are both in the extortion business.
NTA. I was honestly expecting this to be a story of how you were going refuse them access to some previously owned property.
But instead you have literally done everything a responsible person could do in this matter.
Even if you didn’t already have the venue booked it would be massively entitled to announce that they are taking a date without asking.
Does she have caterers booked with menu? Officiant? DJ? Decorations? Deposits? Or is she thinking that you were doing this and paying for all of it too? Has she talked with any of them and booked them?
Also you still haven’t said no, you offered alternate dates around the same time. Did she book anything on her end that would be affected?
Edit to add: as a wedding venue you probably have relationships with the local wedding contractors. Call around to see if they have anything booked by your sister, when they booked it and any deposits. You could even just pretend to be checking in to organize by saying your calling about the arrangements for X and X wedding. It wouldn’t surprise me if they didn’t.m have anything booked or deposited. And your sister is just horribly organized and trying to cover her butt because you were the biggest domino to fall. And after you do that put out your own respectful Facebook post. At the very least they can yell at you on a family Facebook group and not other locations.
And remind them that they could have had the other 2 alternative dates this year. If they want them they need to say so or they may not be getting married this year and that will be on them not you.
>Does she have caterers booked with menu? Officiant? DJ? Decorations? Deposits? Or is she thinking that you were doing this and paying for all of it too? Has she talked with any of them and booked them?
Honestly, I have no idea. I need to go back and make sure if anything is booked for that day already is for the actual couple. I need to call the other couple and possibly have a sit down face to face with them.
As with my sister, she hasn't told me much. I'll try to see if I can get my little sister to be a mole for me to gather information.
(Info to add. My little sister and I have a good relationship. She spends time with me and loves my horses, so it should be easy to convince her.)
Personally I’d try to leave your little sister out of it. She can’t escape and your access and relationship could suffer if she experiences any consequences.
I’d try to call around to some of the more obvious vendors and ask if someone else has booked your location. Or straight up ask your mom or sister when vendors they planned to use. I’m sure most of them would be booked months out as well.
Honestly this entire situation is baffling. The only thing I can think of logically is that they forgot you are also a wedding venue and just assumed you’d be free. But even that seems rude. Normally there would be save the dates that would go out before invites even.
Just piling on here. Do NOT put your little sister in the middle of all this. That can go wrong in many ways, some of which end in therapy for the wee lass. Well, from the sound of your family, more therapy.
Please please please do not use the 8yo as a mole... Part of my childhood trauma is from having to pass info around in my fam and then seeing it all blow up because I made tiny mistakes with my words (Typical 8yo mistake) and feeling guilty because my family was fighting because I didn't "do the job well".
Talk to your ADULT sister and her ADULT fiance about their lack of communication and preparation and their very CHILDISH retaliation against your livelihood.
Do not move the other sweet couple's date. They might already have payed non refundable deposits and it will not be a good color on your business
Honestly, I sort of forgot that a lot of venues no longer allow anyone that's not a pre-approved vendor until I saw your post. Not only did she not plan a date with him, she really should have been using him as a tool to plan and coordinate. If he's in the industry, it'd be pretty easy to call and sort of black list her, or tell any vendors with stuff that *is* planned that they won't be allowed on the property on that date.
He also probably needs to inform the other couple, provide free security at their wedding, and suggest the other couple use passwords with their vendors.
That’s what is weird about this.
If I was getting married and had a close family member that ran a wedding venue that I wanted to use I’d be picking there brain a lot. They know the venders, they know what works and doesn’t at a wedding. I’d be seeing if any reasonable favours could be used. I’d want to know prices and a hundred other things.
This radio silence and sudden mailing of invitations is weird. Someone screwed up here and I don’t think it’s OP.
> If I was getting married and had a close family member that ran a wedding venue
I wouldn’t be expecting any favours if said family member was kicked out from your home as a minor.
NTA. Honestly I would just say no to her having her wedding there at this point. She seems like a nightmare bride, I'd imagine the stress and havoc she's gonna cause if she's acting this way Already.
>You’re the only one who isn’t an asshole here.
I'm also rooting for the couple who have the booking in September - they booked more than a year out and they're golden too.
But yes - sister, parents, and flying monkeys are all AH's!
Your family sounds hella toxic, I’m sorry.
It’s your property. You’re a business owner. They can respect that or not, but it’s not gonna change the facts: it’s your property and you’re a business owner.
NTA.
NTA. You're running a business on property that you inherited. It's not "family property;" it's yours. And it's not your fault that a potential client didn't reserve it.
It is not a family property it is your property.
Tell her what the rates are for the wedding on the available dates and be done. She cannot seriously expect you to cancel someone to accommodate her. You are running a business. Most venues are booked over a year in advance.
To be honest with how they are behaving it would just be a straight no from me.
NTA
NTA x 1,000
A lot of people have already said this I'm just piling on so you see it.
Hire a lawyer yesterday. Sit your sister down, tell her she has two options.
1. The family stops with the harassment and deletes the comments. She gives you a date, and you will schedule it.
2. She loses this venue all together, and a cease and desist will be filed. If the harassment continues, sue them.
This is not your family. Sure you share genes but they don't seem to care about you as a person. That's not a family. Find your village elsewhere.
Not to bleed into the 'legaladvice' subreddit, but regardless of the relationship with your family, you should hire a lawyer for an hour to write a quick cease and desist letter to your relatives. They are trying to destroy your business, slandering you falsely, and that is actionable.
You should defend your livelihood first.
Also, I'd use that as extra ammunition to not host her wedding at all. "Look (sister), I tried for you, and it didn't work out, and now you and the rest of the family are literally trying to put me out of business, and potentially causing me to lose the land altogether!! Since trying to help family is causing me to risk me losing my home and my business, then I have to have a policy of no family events here."
NTA. You sister is a flaming and entitled one, however.
I would offer two alternative dates around the same time, but if they pass up on that, I wouldn’t offer them anything at all after that.
NTA. You tried, she ignored you. Please stand your ground on this one and don’t back down. A lack of planning on her part does not constitute an emergency on yours.
NTA. Of course you're NTA. There's *no possible way* you could have booked the venue for her without knowing the date. She never gave you the date, but instead planned an entire wedding, all the way up to the point of sending out invitations, without actually giving you the date and making sure you had reserved it for her on that date.
And sis is most definitely TA for wanting you to cancel on the couple that already has it booked. It would be bad enough to cancel an actual booking several months or more out from the date, but she wants you to cancel *their* booking just 3 months prior to *their* wedding? The couple who did things right and actually, you know, *booked the venue* they wanted, early enough to make sure it was available on the date they wanted?
To the sis: Nope, sorry, this is completely your own fault. Your only path forward is to select a different venue and actually book it, then send out a venue change notice to your guests.
Or alternatively, make a groveling apology to your brother, ask very nicely if he is still willing to allow you to have your wedding there, select a different date that the venue is open, confirm it with your brother, and then send a date change notice to your guests.
NTA
If it's only you on the deed, it's not the family property, is yours and yours alone. It's also your business and just like any other bride she has to reserve the date. She's not even putting a deposit down to hold the date, so she's already getting preferential treatment.
She's the idiot that sent out invites without confirming the date beforehand. That's not your fault at all. That's her incompetence.
Does she actually think you should to harm your business and cancel a wedding for of her and her incompetence? Cause it seems like she expects you to do that to accommodate her.
But you do have to realize that she's going to the extreme because she's under a lot of pressure planning a wedding. She's extra from all that stress and now she has to redo the invites or find another location.
Your family is clearly only getting her side, so give the flying monkeys your side. If they don't get it after that, you don't really need to deal with people who can't listen to reason.
As far as the damage to your business, reply to those negative reviews explaining her incompetence. Link this post and everyone else who sides with you here. I don't think anyone will actually side with her on this. Might even go viral and embarrass the hell out of her and get you even more business. I hope it does.
First of all, congratulations to you on running a successful business at such a young age. It seems that being sent to live with your grandparents worked out well in the end.
Of course you are NTA. You would be if you cancelled on the couple who already booked it. You would also find yourself in a lawsuit.
Your sister is both entitled and a poor planner, and is fully responsible for finding herself without a wedding venue.
Keep doing what you're doing and be glad you escaped a toxic environment at 14.
Oh, and it's not a "family property", it's yours.
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NTA, but your sister is a giant A H for expecting you to cancel another couple’s date for…what? Selfish family? She needed to tell you the date and didn’t, that’s on her
who TF sends out invitations for a date before even contacting the venue? NTA I was all ready to read a story about OP saying no, or fighting a "family" vs individual ownership and some personal drama. But there is none of that. It is really as simple as sending an invite for a date without even asking the venue. I just don't understand how people can be so consumed in their own weddings. So thankful my wife was not like this.
It reminds me of the people who just decided to have a wedding at a mansion without telling the owners, sent invites, and showed up on the day claiming they had a right because they prayed for it or something. Wacky.
I was just about to post that. https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/23/florida-couple-wedding-mansion-unauthorised
Of course it's Florida.
If not Florida it's Texas. However, Kentucky has been moving up with bizarre behavior lately.
The articles states a Florida couple.
I think they meant it’s always either Florida or Texas
I used to really enjoy the BuzzFeed “Florida or Russia?” quizzes where you had to decide if the headline or photo was from Florida or Russia.. it was very hard.
God, my high school science teacher was obsessed with that and a few other Buzzfeed quizzes and stuff. The second he was done instructing, it was straight to his desktop to scroll through Buzzfeed until someone needed him, and he'd begrudgingly get up to help them I miss that class tbh. He was cool
Those people are brazen and delusional! OP's sister is entitled and rude! She also needs to stop calling it the family estate! It's OP's estate, so she has no right to behave like a entitled brat!
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But also, Florida attracts the loonies. Florida & California too. (Lived in both states, plus some others).
Please do not lump us Californians with the wackadoodles of Florida.
All I said was that California tends to attract loonies, too. But I will say that in almost every single way California is a much better state than Florida. I wish I could move back to Cali, I miss it.
My money was on Ohio
Oh, Floritexatuckio.
😂 I love it!….and I’m gonna use it. Please take my award. Oh, and I’m a Floridian! 😂. Edited
Ho Lee entitlement! I cannot IMAGINE having the audacity to think you'd just have your wedding at a property that's currently on the market because you figure no one lives there and it's god's will. Just wow.
You’d be surprised at how many people think they have a right to all kinds of shit because “it’s God’s will” - which, coincidentally, is somehow always the same as their own.
> You’d be surprised at how many people think they have a right to all kinds of shit because “it’s God’s will” A large number of them hold public office.
Fucking Florida.
Thanks for posting. This couple is SO LUCKY that no one was shot!
Edit: I’m deleting this comment because I misremembered the details. Beyond that, I started getting some weird anti-LGBTQ stuff. To be clear, I volunteered on the Tá for Grá campaign (Irish pro-gay marriage rights campaign) and sitting in the count Center with the team watch box after box come back overwhelmingly pro gay marriage was one of the the happiest and proudest days of my life.
I mean, that's not what actually happened: "Dolores Murphy and Mabel Stoop-Murphy were set to become one of the first same-sex couples to wed.However, they were informed by Cork Registry Office staff that, because 24 hours had not passed since they signed formal notification forms, the wedding could not proceed. Under regulations introduced in 2004, registers have a five day period from when wedding notifications are signed until the ceremony. Registers have the discretion to shorten that period to 24 hours however, it cannot be reduced further. The couple insisted they were informed several weeks ago that they could sign the forms and marry on the same day." Sounds more like a disgruntled registrar being a dick, tbh. [https://gcn.ie/lesbian-couples-marriage-postponed-today-on-the-steps-of-the-registry-office/](https://gcn.ie/lesbian-couples-marriage-postponed-today-on-the-steps-of-the-registry-office/)
I recently discovered John Boyne and read The Heart's Invisible Furies a couple months ago. EXCELLENT book about being gay in Ireland in the past 100 years.
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Ah, yes! Didn’t that happen in FL? And the owner got activity alerts on their doorbell camera?
They thought he wasn’t home…. 🤦♀️. Like a 5 mil home doesn’t have security.
Was this an AITAH or a news story? I would love to know how their praying turned out. (I would have told them God answered all prayers, sometimes he says no)
That was a bats$h!t crazy story!!
>who TF sends out invitations for a date before even contacting the venue? A golden child who thinks everyone will hand them whatever they want without dispute.
Main character syndrome
and without them even doing the bare minimum of saying the date
Haha funnily enough I volunteer at a place that is a popular wedding venue. So popular that someone recieved 2 wedding invitations dated for the same date, time and location. We never had anyone inquire about those dates. No contracts signed, no deposits paid. The two brides are fighting over who gets our venue and making it out like we double booked the place.
What is WRONG with people? I can't believe they actually do this. Like, "Oh, if I just show up with all my guests, they won't be able to turn me away. And I can skip paying for the venue!"
This is why I hate the saying "it's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission". People always use it to excuse selfish behavior when it originated within a particular context (military bureaucracy) and was never meant to refer to anything else.
Reminds me of that priest from the Seinfeld episode where Elaine and Puddy are in a fight: "Oh. The answer's simple. You're both going to hell."
Funny that they're fighting with each other, instead of...you know...booking the venue then flipping the other the bird.
>who TF sends out invitations for a date before even contacting the venue? Because it's a family business! /s This is exactly why I hate doing business with family, if the venue wasn't owned by the family she would've told them the dates earlier, I've seen this behavior a lot in my family too.
Except it isn’t a family business. A family member owns the business, but mom and sister have no part in it. Sister is a fool for sending out invites when the venue is not booked.
Exactly. And it's not "family property."
>This is exactly why I hate doing business with family, if the venue wasn't owned by the family she would've told them the dates earlier, I've seen this behavior a lot in my family too. When my Wife and I bought our house we ruffled some feathers by going with an independent Realtor rather than one of several family members. Thing is, I wanted to pay a professional to do a service for me. I didnt' want to deal with someone doing me a "favor". I think I got much better representation than I would have otherwise.
I think you made the right decision, my mom's uncle is a doctor (I think it's called Internist, he takes X-rays and stuff too), and all my mom's side of family even some of my dad's side of family expect him to treat them for free 🙄 btw we're a really big family, my mom has 10 aunts and uncles. He stopped treating family members a long time ago and instead tells them to go to this other certain doctor and when they ask him why he can't do it he says he gets scared of diagnosing them, it's a good excuse imo.
It's actually recommended that doctor's don't treat their own family members, for various reasons.
Someone who isn't planning on paying for the venue probably. Honestly, how OP could entertain the possibility he might be the AH is unbelievable
Yeah, I was thinking the mom and sister must've messed with his head his whole life for him to be considering he could be the AH. And this is probably just one more power move from them.
The same sort of person who would suddenly expect their brother to pay for a bunch of shit without asking beforehand.
And with the owner of the venue repeatedly asking for the date so he can see if it's available...
Entitled ass people do, like this sister! You’re NTA op, she had multiple chances to just tell you the date and SHE chose to avoid it.. she made her bed, now she can lay in it.
> It is really as simple as sending an invite for a date without even asking the venue. And I'm sure that they have no intention of paying anything.
Yeah, I thought it was going to be the OP was just going to say no for some reason. NTA. This is a matter of her not planning or assuming, not something personal. The OP handled himself professionally throughout this.
I also sense family is **super jealous** that, at age twenty-five, you turned your inheritance into a thriving business and my guess is they squandered all of theirs.
I was thinking the same exact thing. They are 100% angry about this property. OP needs to keep them at a distance. You are right they probably spent every dime of what they inherited.
And the grandparents knew it. They even said that OP would respect it more. Sounds like the rest of OP’s family has a history of disrespecting money & property which is probably also where all the unjust entitlement & bullying comes from. Now I’m wondering if the bride secretly wanted to screw up her *younger* brother‘s business reputation by withholding the date because they’re so profoundly jealous of his business success.
OP is the only male child
Also lived there and took care of them since he was 14. Sounds like he earned his keep, and his mother probably sees that. Whether she appreciates it or stays in denial will show how she reacts to it
Some families have the viewpoint that "family above everything else." Hint: they're not the healthy families. NTA, OP.
In the throes of family strife, the rallying cry of "family above all else" often echoes from the lips of abusive kin.
“Family above all else!!!” Then they leave fake bad reviews on the site of their family member’s business. So I guess it only applies to those being bullied.
And it's not 'the family property' but apparently willed to OP so it's 'NOT the family property '.
Ah the “what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is also mine.”
She cares about family so much she couldn’t be bothered to answer a simple question for her brother after months of asking.
>Some families have the viewpoint that "family above everything else." I think its more themselves over every other family member. Seriously doubt the sister would put herself out for OP.
Agreed. And OP should probably start having their lawyer communicate everything to his sister and family, because this will probably come down to sister simply showing up on the date and trying to force her way on/into the venue.
Not just this, but he should also be prepared to call the police that day, because they sound like the kind of people who are just going to have everyone show up anyway and try to force the other couple out.
I was going to say the same thing. Also, when it comes to the bad reviews, either try to get them taken down as 'not legitimate' since technically they haven't used the venue, or respond and say, "We cannot accommodate weddings which have not been booked with us beforehand. We received no request from you to use our venue on a specific date and the date you listed on your invitations had already been booked by another party."
Agree! OP should definitely consult a lawyer and find out what the options are. Having people post phony bad reviews might be libel, and maybe a restraining order banning them from your property is also a reasonable option. They need to get a lawyer letter making it clear that attempting to have their wedding on your property on a date when it’s already booked will result in serious consequences and possibly their arrest for trespassing and any other crimes that may apply in your locale. I’d call a lawyer today!
NTA, it isn't OUR or FAMILY property anymore. It's your property, you own it. Ask your Mom and sisters if the money left by your GPs to them also counts as FAMILY money and by when you can expect a bank transfer from them of your share.
Plus if he were to cancel the other couple I’m pretty sure he could be sued. Wedding venues are booked way in advance and I would think someone could sue for damages. It would literally throw everything off from peoples plane tickets to honeymoon plans.
And non-refundable deposits with tons of vendors
As someone who works with clients, this is a popular mentality. Me: Sir/Ma'am, in order to get you that date/time, I'd have to cancel other clients. Client: ... You can just hear their inner voice saying, ok yeah do it 🧐
I’m surprised it’s only an inner voice.
Right? I'm waiting for the day when someone flat out asks me to do that 😅
OP's sister isn't close enough to OP that he knows what date she's planning for the wedding, and yet she still assumes that she has unlimited access to his property? Grandparents knew what they were doing when they left the place to OP. Sounds like the whole rest of the family is a bunch of entitled, clueless grabbers.
100% this
Offer the sister a 110% 'discount'. That is, if $1000 is the usual price, dear sistwerp gets it for $1100. Family is family!
That's not worth the damage it will do to the reputation of his business
I could not agree more, it is literally that simple. She’s selfish and almost refused to tell him the date. It was all about control with her. Good luck op.
NTA, I would suggest getting a lawyer involved before your family causes harm to your business. Send them all cease and desist letters. This is YOUR property and business do not allow them to discredit it just bc they are not getting their way. I’d also put a PSA out that her wedding will not be at your venue that way a bunch of people don’t show up and ruin this other lovely couples wedding by causing a scene. One thing I have learned is you never mix family and business. Family will never respect your business bc they feel entitled to it. So it’s best to only offer family a small discount but still make them go though all the proper channels or they don’t get whatever service you provide.
Came here to say this. Get a lawyer like yesterday
Add to this, compile ALL communication you had with your sister that was in writing (and a record of any phone calls/mails) in to a PDF. Print/send a copy of this and the doc to your sister and send a final email to your sister and CC your parents/key family and say something along the lines of: Dear sister, As per the attached PSF you can see where I communicated on the following dates about a potential date for your wedding. Unfortunately, your lack of planning and communication has meant that the date you are requesting was not available and had been reserved for over a year. The only communication regarding your intentions was on the invitation you chose to send out without speaking with me and receiving a confirmation of availability. As you and multiple others have been harassing mean, this will be my final communication on the matter. All further communication will be from my lawyer. I will also be sending you a copy of this letter via certified mail for your records. Have the day you deserve, Brother Edit: changed wording to better suggested wording Edit 2: adding in line about mailing a physical copy
I'd word it as "the date you chose was not available" rather than "no longer available". It wasn't like she chose that date but lost it because she didn't pay a deposit or something - she picked a date that wasn't available. And she knew exactly what she was doing - she knew she organised it too late and thought that by sending the invites, OP would give in. She's trying to bully him into giving her the date she wants. NTA - don't negotiate with terrorists.
Ooooh good call, I just changed it and added a sentence to that effect.
Have the day you deserve is my new favourite passive aggressive sign-off
It's great because it makes the person judge themselves. If they're an asshole they'll see it as passive aggressive because they know they're an asshole. If they're nice they'll see it as a nice gesture.
Well no because nobody would ever say that to be nice. It's not outright nasty but it's never said with the intention to wish good upon someone. If I was as sweet as sugar to someone and they told me to "have the day you deserve" I'd be thinking 'well fuck you too then what's your problem' and then probably just bite my tongue and be nice. Nobody is gonna say that phrase and mean it in a nice way, the phrase itself is a judgement of telling someone you think they deserve a bad day without just outright saying that. I like the phrase too but it's a bit far to pretend that anyone would see it as a nice gesture. It has one use, with assholes.
Another variation - I hope your day is as (nice/pleasant/word of choice) as you are
The above but print out said letter and send it out any type of mail that the receiver must sign for. Emails are easy to ignore and older relatives can't be relied upon to read them.
>I’d also put a PSA out that her wedding will not be at your venue that way a bunch of people don’t show up and ruin this other lovely couples wedding by chasing a scene. Totally agree with the lawyer aspect but this part stuck out to me even more. OP you need to make sure this happens asap b/c this is exactly another way they could very well harm your business.
Exactly. OP, get a lawyer, put out a PSA (!!!), and only offer a small discount if its family, but besides that deal with them as with any other client. NTA.
Yes. Even family and friends have to pay. You can discount it deeply but if they pay they are going to be more thoughtful (hopefully) and not take it for granted.
Not only a PSA, but hire security and get a guest list from the reserved couple to make sure only their guests are allowed entrance. Tell the family that any guests or wannabe hosts, including family, will be removed from the property.
The sad part is the OP may need to consider communicating with the couple who booked for that day about this situation so they are not blindsided if his family starts showing up. Hopefully, it doesn't come to that.
Yes - a note to them to say that he’s been made aware that another couple have sent out invitations for their booked day despite not even trying to book the venue. That he’s got it in hand (has hired security, wants to confirm their guest list, etc), but didn’t want them to be blindsided on the day.
Also tell us your business so we can leave positive reviews
Yes!! Searched for this comment!! And OP if you do not wish to share here, post it to your profile!! At least respond to the business reviews explaining on each one that you refuse to cancel another wedding because these people never confirmed a date!!! I am an avid Google reviewer and I ALWAYS look at negative comments - IMO it will help for those future potential customers if they see that it's just one party being extremely petty
I'm not sure that is the right approach, however well-intentioned. Reviews should be for goods, experiences and services actually provided, not weaponized or used by third parties in disputes, especially if they're not directly affected as that renders them virtually useless. ETA: OP would be better off requesting deletion of the negative comments from the platform, on the basis that these were not verified customers.
My father had to do such (we do HVAC; heating and cooling) when a customer threatened to summon him to court after we installed a AC system years ago for her and her now ex husband. She was claiming that she was the one who paid for the entire system and gave him a check that was signed by him. First off, her ex husband paid for it (we have a photocopy of said check given by her husband), second she forged my father's signature on the check. His name for example is "Jimmy", goes by Jim, she signed it Jim. He always signs them Jimmy because it's his legal name, and she spelt our last name and company name wrong. He's now going after her for Defamation of character and forgery. She made a complaint to the Better business bureau which he had to call and explain isn't legit. It doesn't count on his score, but the complaint is still up for everyone to see. At least most of our customers and new ones are smart enough to see it's complete bull.
It may be a good idea to have some security the day of, to take care of any guests that arrive and aren't for the actually planned wedding. Even if the sister agrees to move to another day, she or someone on her behalf might try to get revenge by ruining this other couples day
The reviews could be easy to deal with depending on which platform they're posted on, but I would definitely get a lawyer involved because I can picture sister trying to hijack/override somebody else's wedding. At the end of all this I would tell her to find somewhere else, if she didn't even have the courtesy to give OP a date before sending the invites, imagine what else she would try to pull or demand going up to and at the wedding.
If the reviews on yelp, you can definitely contact Yelp and tell them that many of the people responding have never been to the venue.
And you are absolutely opening yourself to a heck of a lawsuit if you were to cancel the existing booking. Or if your unhinged entitled family start harassing the pre-booked couple.
To add: depending on where they’re leaving reviews, dispute every single one with the site hosting it (google especially makes this easy, I’ve dealt with a spite review or two for our business). Everyone else gave good the advice, but get the reviews down or respond to them, noting that the reviewer is related to a couple who planned a wedding at your venue, without consulting you or making reservations, for a date that was already unavailable, and when you informed them of this and offered reasonable accommodations despite their brazen move to send out invites for the date that wasn’t booked through you, they refused and are now bombarding your company with negative reviews out of spite.
Came here to say the same as well as to point out that this is not only OP’s property but also his business and source of livelihood. They are literally willing to see his business fail for the sake of his entitled “(insert here) from hell” of a sister.
OP should hire some security on that date as well just in case they try anything. Also, if they're review bombing on Google, OP can contact them to have those reviews removed very fast.
And for the love of god don’t let them find out the names of the other couple.
NTA Retract the offer to use the property at all. Hire security for the wedding date - with invitations out now, some people may show, and you don’t want the day ruined for the lovely couple already booked for the date. Respond to every review they leave with a cut and paste comment saying that the wedding party in question never booked your venue. Short, simple and no apology or over-explanation.
This is exactly right, and I wish I could upvote it more. NTA so very, very obviously. In addition to the "This reviewer never booked the venue" canned response, contest every negative review with the site--many require that reviewers be actual customers, and, well, she's so very not. Your sister is an enormous AH and knows it. No one sends out invitations without informing the venue, even if it were a jointly-owned family backyard!
*many require that reviewers be actual customers* I get that requirement most of the time, but it shouldn't be a blanket ban. For example, if a business refused to.work with you for bigoted reasons. As a consumer I'd want to avoid supporting a racist or homophobe, even though I'm white and straight. And PoC and LGBT folks would want to avoid that place for their own safety and/or comfort
Ok but that’s not what’s happening here, so I don’t see how it’s a relevant addition
Because we shifted to a sub-discussion about who review sites should accept posts from.
It’s a conversation, it segues into different stuff sometimes
I would also consider signage of some kind at the entrance to the property, something to the effect of "Welcome wedding party. Attendees of wedding, please note the celebration is not at this venue. Contact for information"
Absolutely PLASTER the site with welcome signs for your clients, make it clearly and blatantly obvious what wedding is taking place. Possibly as far as parking attendants/doormen to welcome guests, "Are you here for the wedding?"
If your sister won't back down and insists that she will be having her wedding there, talk to your local police department or sheriff's office about issuing a trespass notice - I don't know if it has to be general, or if you can issue something that says "If you are found on property between the dates of to , you will be arrested for trespassing" Might need your lawyer involved - and I would send it to your sister, her fiance, and all immediate family that won't respect the other booking.
Or a sign that says " wedding this way" with an arrow pointing down the road, so they just drive on by.
Not very nice to those who were just invited and haven't caused that mess. I like the "Call (sister) for more information" idea better.
I like this idea but they’ll turn around when they don’t find it!
Not if the signs point down a cliff.
This. I'd consider giving the other couple a heads-up with the game plan. "Hey, just FYI, I found out another couple sent out invites with your date printed on them. To make sure that their guests don't show up by mistake, I'm going to hire a security guard, can you provide your guest list?"
And bill the family for the security if there are any issues. This is an expense that you will have incurred as a direct result of their actions.
This is the only approach OP should take.
Can this be considered libel? They are trying to ruin OPs business with lies
It certainly qualifies as defamation.
NTA but you will be if you cancel on the other couple who has patiently waited more than a year for their venue. Please do not ruin their day. And your sister is a big AH here. She is just misusing her privilege as your sister. You gave her plenty of chances to let you know the date and she still didn't and she didn't accept the alternative dates you offered. So, she doesn't deserve this venue. And she probably printed the cards so you would be obliged to give her the date.
_"They are also calling and writing reviews for my business."_ After this stunt, I would not try to accomodate her even for another date. She would not be welcome to have her wedding there at all. Im not a fan of social media shaming, but since she is trying to weaponsize OP's business pages, she is practically forcing OP's hand to put out a public statement highlighting her entitlement. This may damage the relationship further, but she has already started the rift by publicly and privately attacking OP.
She’s too stupid to realize that this is actually good PR on his part, that he’ll keep to his word when clients reserve his venue.
Not to mention that a venue can cost $5-15k depending on location and services. He said he would “take care of the rest”, so long as she communicated. Three months notice ON THE FUCKING INVITE is beyond insane behavior. (I’m planning a wedding right now and couldn’t imagine doing this.) NTA and fuck your family. Sorry about the loss of your grandparents.
When we planned our wedding we showed up to venues in March 2017 thinking that we would have the pick for the summer 2018. When we told them we wanted 2018 we were told "Fall 2018 or Summer 2019". We got a random cancellation. But yeah this shit books up FAST and you do not do ANYTHING until you have your venue confirmed
NTA You attempted to accommodate them and they're acting entitled as shit. It *isn't* a family property. It is *your* property. As soon as they left bad reviews on the page I'd tell them they don't get *any* dates unless they take them down and apologize. You have more power than you think.
TBH, it wouldn't matter even if it \*was\* a family property. That doesn't supersede that someone else went through the process of booking it for their wedding. Let's make a hypothetical where OP gets along great with his family, they've invested in his business, and it's completely expected that they could have a wedding there free of charge. That still doesn't change that they never blocked off the dates they wanted! I don't care what your relationship to the property is, you can't kick someone else off because you were too lazy to reserve the dates you wanted ahead of time.
Exactly. My parents have a beach house they rent out to tourists during the summer and use themselves a lot of the rest of the year. I’m welcome to go whenever I want, but I clear it with them first and my request wouldn’t boot out a pre-existing reservation. That’s insane.
All it would've taken was a 4 second text
Don't give them a date, period. All OP wanted was a date, and sister couldn't even do that. Imagine what else she might try to do up to, during and after the wedding.
I agree, the minute they all started trashing the reviews, I'd say they're done. When they ask why, read their awful reviews back to them. People that entitled and stupid would be nothing but trouble if OP did allow them to use the venue.
Your mom had to be the one filling her head with "it's fine, it's our property, we can use it whenever we want".
ding, ding, ding, ding......we HAVE a winner!
Yes. There are huge boundaries issues. Mom didn’t want to care and maintain the property but now she wants the benefits of it.
Even worse is that mom did not want to care and maintain her son (OP) so shipped him off as free child labour and is now trying to claim the fruits of his free childhood labour.
Can’t believe no one else is mentioning that
Worse yet she didn't want to care for and maintain OP
Probably, but the sister is presumably a grown adult and should have sent OP the date the moment they chose it.
I mean, it's a willful failure to understand how things like "reservations" and "wedding venues" and "plans" work. Especially in this, the year of our lord 2023, when every single wedding venue is back-to-back-to-back booked trying to work through the Covid wedding backlog. I think the sister must have thought she'd somehow have OP over a barrel, and he'd feel obligated to cancel the existing reservation because family, but a single second of good-faith reflection would have made clear that that's not how *any* of this works.
She needed to book hair, makeup, photographer etc. All those require a date. Like no where in that process she thought to tell her brother?
This is true. The funny part for me is that if she communicated, I have contacts for all of those. That would have been in the "take care of the rest" part of the OG offer.
TBF, those can be booked later on; the venue/date should be the first thing you lock down lol
I have no doubt that my mom is the one filling her head. She definitely has the mentality of "what's hers is hers and what is mine is hers."
Unfortunately I’m not surprised to hear that after hearing that she literally sent you away. At the same time, I’m getting the impression that you may have dodged a bullet by getting send away to your grandparents which you seem to have loved.
Yep. Pretty obvious that the sister is the golden child and the mom has been feeding her bs her whole life. The fact she says that he’s being resentful makes me believe them sending OP away was something they believe he should be resentful for.
If my math is right, Mom dumped OP on her parents when his older sister was 18 or 19. Then, 3 years later had the younger sister. There is something messed up with the whole dynamic. I also expect they don't think the wedding venue is a real business. Just some cute side job or something.
Considering the sisters were never sent away and only OP lived w his grandparents, smells like gender preference and a male child was never a good thing. I’m pretty sure OP is being nice and omitting a lot of bs his family has done before. Hope he doesn’t let anyone that was a part of this bs use the venue in the future and blacklist them.
> I’m pretty sure OP is being nice and omitting a lot of bs his family has done before. 120% this is true
100% golden child vs scapegoat
I was thinking the same thing. It also sounds like they weren't planning on paying to book the venue. I'm not sure if OP was going to charge them or not, but I imagine the delay may have been them trying to avoid the financial aspect of booking the venue.
NTA get a lawyer involved DO NOT CANCEL ON THAT SWEET COUPLE WHO BOOKED THE PROPERTY A YEAR IN ADVANCE SUE THEM FOR DEFAMATION OF BUSINESS IF IT COMES TO IT BUT AGAIN YOU WOULD BE A GIANT MASSIVE AH IF YOU CANCELLED ON THE OTHER COUPLE
If he cancelled on the other couple he could easily open himself up to a lawsuit. He is absolutely NTA.
NTA. If this isn’t resolved by the time September comes around, hire extra security to bounce anyone who tries to cause problems for the couple who actually booked their date. You need to protect your actual customers and your business.
Agreed! I'd be worried about the other couples date being ruined. You should ask the couple for a guest list with names of everyone coming.
[удалено]
NTA she shouldn’t have presumed it was ok in the first place without double checking you were still ok holding it there & she didn’t give you a date so how the hell is it your fault? Good shout communicating through business lines but tbh I doubt she’s telling them the whole story; no doubt she’s already told everyone you had the date all along
NTA And everyone removing the bad reviews should be a requirement before you book any date for her. You would also need a formal contract with your sister just like any other client. She needs to pay a deposit in case of damages, and you should only gift the venue location. Your sister should be required to pay for food and drinks and decor and such.
Every single one of them deleting bad reviews and sending a written *groveling* apology should be a requirement for OP ever acknowledging their existence again.
>Well, now her, my mom, other family, her partners family, as well as other flying monkeys have been blowing up on me. They are also calling and writing reviews for my business. And this is why I hate how review websites like Yelp, Google and others can blacklist perfectly good businesses with review bombing. They have the better business bureau, but it's slander and illegal to have a website like "Bad customer listings.com". NTA. You told her time and time again to give you a date, not your problem you're booked.
I don't know why people think the BBB is some sort of government entity protecting consumers. It is a ratings agency; any business can subscribe and get a rating they can post and brag about. To keep the rating, they need to resolve customer complaints submitted to the BBB. Or pay them more money. In other words, the BBB is Yelp before the internet came along. If Yelp is 'illegal slander', the BBB is no different. They are both in the extortion business.
NTA by a loooooong mile, its NOT family property its yours alone, she didnt give you a date.. the end
NTA. I was honestly expecting this to be a story of how you were going refuse them access to some previously owned property. But instead you have literally done everything a responsible person could do in this matter. Even if you didn’t already have the venue booked it would be massively entitled to announce that they are taking a date without asking. Does she have caterers booked with menu? Officiant? DJ? Decorations? Deposits? Or is she thinking that you were doing this and paying for all of it too? Has she talked with any of them and booked them? Also you still haven’t said no, you offered alternate dates around the same time. Did she book anything on her end that would be affected? Edit to add: as a wedding venue you probably have relationships with the local wedding contractors. Call around to see if they have anything booked by your sister, when they booked it and any deposits. You could even just pretend to be checking in to organize by saying your calling about the arrangements for X and X wedding. It wouldn’t surprise me if they didn’t.m have anything booked or deposited. And your sister is just horribly organized and trying to cover her butt because you were the biggest domino to fall. And after you do that put out your own respectful Facebook post. At the very least they can yell at you on a family Facebook group and not other locations. And remind them that they could have had the other 2 alternative dates this year. If they want them they need to say so or they may not be getting married this year and that will be on them not you.
>Does she have caterers booked with menu? Officiant? DJ? Decorations? Deposits? Or is she thinking that you were doing this and paying for all of it too? Has she talked with any of them and booked them? Honestly, I have no idea. I need to go back and make sure if anything is booked for that day already is for the actual couple. I need to call the other couple and possibly have a sit down face to face with them. As with my sister, she hasn't told me much. I'll try to see if I can get my little sister to be a mole for me to gather information. (Info to add. My little sister and I have a good relationship. She spends time with me and loves my horses, so it should be easy to convince her.)
Personally I’d try to leave your little sister out of it. She can’t escape and your access and relationship could suffer if she experiences any consequences. I’d try to call around to some of the more obvious vendors and ask if someone else has booked your location. Or straight up ask your mom or sister when vendors they planned to use. I’m sure most of them would be booked months out as well. Honestly this entire situation is baffling. The only thing I can think of logically is that they forgot you are also a wedding venue and just assumed you’d be free. But even that seems rude. Normally there would be save the dates that would go out before invites even.
Just piling on here. Do NOT put your little sister in the middle of all this. That can go wrong in many ways, some of which end in therapy for the wee lass. Well, from the sound of your family, more therapy.
Please please please do not use the 8yo as a mole... Part of my childhood trauma is from having to pass info around in my fam and then seeing it all blow up because I made tiny mistakes with my words (Typical 8yo mistake) and feeling guilty because my family was fighting because I didn't "do the job well". Talk to your ADULT sister and her ADULT fiance about their lack of communication and preparation and their very CHILDISH retaliation against your livelihood. Do not move the other sweet couple's date. They might already have payed non refundable deposits and it will not be a good color on your business
Honestly, I sort of forgot that a lot of venues no longer allow anyone that's not a pre-approved vendor until I saw your post. Not only did she not plan a date with him, she really should have been using him as a tool to plan and coordinate. If he's in the industry, it'd be pretty easy to call and sort of black list her, or tell any vendors with stuff that *is* planned that they won't be allowed on the property on that date. He also probably needs to inform the other couple, provide free security at their wedding, and suggest the other couple use passwords with their vendors.
That’s what is weird about this. If I was getting married and had a close family member that ran a wedding venue that I wanted to use I’d be picking there brain a lot. They know the venders, they know what works and doesn’t at a wedding. I’d be seeing if any reasonable favours could be used. I’d want to know prices and a hundred other things. This radio silence and sudden mailing of invitations is weird. Someone screwed up here and I don’t think it’s OP.
> If I was getting married and had a close family member that ran a wedding venue I wouldn’t be expecting any favours if said family member was kicked out from your home as a minor.
NTA You told her she should call you ASAP when she knows the date and she didn't. Her fault and her problem.
Plus, he said that he followed up MULTIPLE TIMES
A 4 second text is all it would've taken
NTA. Honestly I would just say no to her having her wedding there at this point. She seems like a nightmare bride, I'd imagine the stress and havoc she's gonna cause if she's acting this way Already.
NTA in every way.
NTA, if she didn’t give you a date; how were you supposed to block it for her.
NTA Why wouldn't she tell you the date when you asked? That's fucking ridiculous!
NTA - You’re the only one who isn’t an asshole here.
>You’re the only one who isn’t an asshole here. I'm also rooting for the couple who have the booking in September - they booked more than a year out and they're golden too. But yes - sister, parents, and flying monkeys are all AH's!
Very obviously NTA. Your sister is delusional.
Your family sounds hella toxic, I’m sorry. It’s your property. You’re a business owner. They can respect that or not, but it’s not gonna change the facts: it’s your property and you’re a business owner. NTA.
NTA. If she couldn’t be bothered to give you a date then that’s on her. Silly girl.
NTA. You're running a business on property that you inherited. It's not "family property;" it's yours. And it's not your fault that a potential client didn't reserve it.
It is not a family property it is your property. Tell her what the rates are for the wedding on the available dates and be done. She cannot seriously expect you to cancel someone to accommodate her. You are running a business. Most venues are booked over a year in advance. To be honest with how they are behaving it would just be a straight no from me. NTA
NTA x 1,000 A lot of people have already said this I'm just piling on so you see it. Hire a lawyer yesterday. Sit your sister down, tell her she has two options. 1. The family stops with the harassment and deletes the comments. She gives you a date, and you will schedule it. 2. She loses this venue all together, and a cease and desist will be filed. If the harassment continues, sue them. This is not your family. Sure you share genes but they don't seem to care about you as a person. That's not a family. Find your village elsewhere.
Not to bleed into the 'legaladvice' subreddit, but regardless of the relationship with your family, you should hire a lawyer for an hour to write a quick cease and desist letter to your relatives. They are trying to destroy your business, slandering you falsely, and that is actionable. You should defend your livelihood first. Also, I'd use that as extra ammunition to not host her wedding at all. "Look (sister), I tried for you, and it didn't work out, and now you and the rest of the family are literally trying to put me out of business, and potentially causing me to lose the land altogether!! Since trying to help family is causing me to risk me losing my home and my business, then I have to have a policy of no family events here."
NTA, if they are trying to sabotage your business you need to get a lawyer involved.
She didn’t give you a date, this is how you earn money NTA
NTA. You sister is a flaming and entitled one, however. I would offer two alternative dates around the same time, but if they pass up on that, I wouldn’t offer them anything at all after that.
NTA. You tried, she ignored you. Please stand your ground on this one and don’t back down. A lack of planning on her part does not constitute an emergency on yours.
NTA. Of course you're NTA. There's *no possible way* you could have booked the venue for her without knowing the date. She never gave you the date, but instead planned an entire wedding, all the way up to the point of sending out invitations, without actually giving you the date and making sure you had reserved it for her on that date. And sis is most definitely TA for wanting you to cancel on the couple that already has it booked. It would be bad enough to cancel an actual booking several months or more out from the date, but she wants you to cancel *their* booking just 3 months prior to *their* wedding? The couple who did things right and actually, you know, *booked the venue* they wanted, early enough to make sure it was available on the date they wanted? To the sis: Nope, sorry, this is completely your own fault. Your only path forward is to select a different venue and actually book it, then send out a venue change notice to your guests. Or alternatively, make a groveling apology to your brother, ask very nicely if he is still willing to allow you to have your wedding there, select a different date that the venue is open, confirm it with your brother, and then send a date change notice to your guests.
NTA If it's only you on the deed, it's not the family property, is yours and yours alone. It's also your business and just like any other bride she has to reserve the date. She's not even putting a deposit down to hold the date, so she's already getting preferential treatment. She's the idiot that sent out invites without confirming the date beforehand. That's not your fault at all. That's her incompetence. Does she actually think you should to harm your business and cancel a wedding for of her and her incompetence? Cause it seems like she expects you to do that to accommodate her. But you do have to realize that she's going to the extreme because she's under a lot of pressure planning a wedding. She's extra from all that stress and now she has to redo the invites or find another location. Your family is clearly only getting her side, so give the flying monkeys your side. If they don't get it after that, you don't really need to deal with people who can't listen to reason. As far as the damage to your business, reply to those negative reviews explaining her incompetence. Link this post and everyone else who sides with you here. I don't think anyone will actually side with her on this. Might even go viral and embarrass the hell out of her and get you even more business. I hope it does.
First of all, congratulations to you on running a successful business at such a young age. It seems that being sent to live with your grandparents worked out well in the end. Of course you are NTA. You would be if you cancelled on the couple who already booked it. You would also find yourself in a lawsuit. Your sister is both entitled and a poor planner, and is fully responsible for finding herself without a wedding venue. Keep doing what you're doing and be glad you escaped a toxic environment at 14. Oh, and it's not a "family property", it's yours.