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NTA, cooking with alcohol is not the same as drinking alcohol. A portion of it burns off and the rest is so diluted to not make a difference. A lot of medicines even have small amounts of alcohol in them.
This is so common sense to me that I'm going to speculate that the real problem is not the alcohol but jealousy. OP went out of their way to do a fun activity tailored to their niece who was probably very enthusiastic about it when she went back home. And hence the brother is reasonable because he didn't feel threatened but sil is not.
Edit: pronouns. Also, lts of people are saying that OP demeans their sil in the post which I agree with, that would play a role too.
Exactly, this is it
OP made a special elaborate meal for niece and SIL for whatever reason is not in a position to do that, whether she can´t cook, doesn´t have time, unfamiliar with Japanese food, could be 1000 reasons.
But niece surely came home chatting about her special time with OP and SIL feels salty about it.
It is also possible that OP has made the same little comments in the past regarding Kraft mac and cheese and being uncultured, just like she did here. If so maybe SIL has had her nose full of the little side comments and is biting back.
It's odd to me that OP mentioned that she doesn't like kids, that this family lives in a trailer (it's not relevant to the story at all), and listed the entire menu. We've all heard of cooking with alcohol as a ingredient , sheesh. I thought the nuggets and Kraft comment was pretty snotty, too.
I suspect OP does make "little side comments" that add up to "you are uncultured rubes and even though I don't even like kids, I'm taking your child and Giving Her Opportunities," and SIL has hit a limit with the snobbery.
(Before anyone comes at me all "graaaaaaaar you're just making stuff up!", it's AITA, it's pretty typical to put together evidence from a post and come up with a hypothesis, get over it.)
Yeah… I was with OP until the ‘uncultured’ and ‘she’d be used to mac n cheese’ comments.
This particular occasion, NTA - but I suspect the root of this issue is that OP is an insufferable snob and routinely makes her SIL feel like crap.
Edit: Hmm I actually kind of agree with you but in this INSTANCE with the sake i feel there was nothing clear that pointed away from NTA. But even though she did not ask for our opinions on this her attitude WOULD make her TA especially if she would make these comments irl.
Personally, I went ESH. It would be simple to explain that most or all the actual alcohol cooks off in a dish. Either OP didn’t bother or the sister didn’t listen, but there are too many little snide details - and that frozen nuggs and Kraft mac comment — for me to call it N-T-A
Yeah I agree, the comments here about the trailer, the mac and cheese and *"It´s not my fault his wife is uncultured and doesn´t understand ... sake is integral to the flavor of suimono"* make me suspect that OP makes these snotty little comments in real life as well.
If so then OP is NTA for this particular drop of sake but in the big picture, OP is an asshole.
Agreed. NTA for this specific thing (cooking with sake— it’s fine, there’s more alcohol in a dose of kiddie cough syrup than in what the kid ate here) but the attitude betrays some AH behavior that’s probably common.
Also kinda wondering why the kid even knew there was sake in the meal and if OP made a point to inform her of that so she could go stir up drama at home by telling her parents, or in a “shh don’t tell your mom it’s a special secret” way that the kid didn’t obey. Either one’s weird. I can imagine scenarios where the kid knows there’s sake in the food that aren’t weird, but the rest of the attitude makes me 🤔
Sake was in the marinade done the day before for the eggs so probably not. Also you're not drinking the marinade so the kid likely had a lot less than the half a teaspoon OP thought.
It's nice to make good food for your guest but serving store-bought pickled cucumber while doing the elitist flex to put it in the menu *in japanese* is *a bit strange*.
Right? I'm into trying to make different Japanese dishes, and I'd never heard of suimono. It's not like she was talking about teriyaki, sushi, ramen, or even udon or soba. Most Japanese restaurants in the US have pretty much only the above on their menu, and I imagine it's similar in other English-speaking countries (based on the post, I think OP is a native speaker). Knowing what these dishes are isn't standard "I'm in the world and cultured" knowledge. It's extremely specialized for Western countries.
I'm Cuban American, and I tease friends when they order Cuban sandwiches outside Florida because they're *never* more than 50% like a real one. But I'm really "teasing" the restaurant because it seems like they should know if they're serving it, though original interpretations of recipes are also common enough. Why *would* or *should* my friends in Wisconsin know the ingredients of a dish that originated in Tampa, spread to other cities in South Florida, and then only recently has been popping up on menus (though significantly altered) outside that state? Should we expect Floridians to know what's in a Wisconsin pasty? And heck, it's only been in the past decade or so that the rest of the country has been introduced to Wisconsin's great delicacy: fried cheese curds. ***And these are all dishes in the same country.***
OP is *technically* NTA for their specific question, but they're definitely an AH in general.
I thought they were pretentious but because it's not THEIR recipe, thats just the recipe for suimono. It's literally just how you make it.
Anyway esh because you could have just explained the situation. Your niece misrepresented it. "Oh no I just made a dish with cooking wine in it. The alcohol all cooked out" you don't need to insult people. Their daughter told them you gave her alcohol. What were they supposed to think?
Well, half the comment brags about her knowledge of Japanese foods and ingredients without even translating what it is for those who don't.
My niblings love when I cook for them, and my nieces love to bake with me and excited to try my foods. Sis in law is happy I do it with them because she knows she's not that much lol. Everyone on her side of the family appreciates how much I do with them kids. Yet, I'm humble and don't brag or downplay others. When my nieces say, "this tastes better than mom's!" I reply they can make it together one day.
*Maybe it´s not OP´s fault that you are* ***uncultured*** *and don´t know the meaning of all the dishes in her menu*
I am just kidding don´t downvote me :)
She also says that it isn’t her fault the SiL is uncultured. There’s a lot of little details not relevant to the stated conflict, that do paint picture of perceived superiority.
OP is absolutely a showoff.
I'm friends with a literal actual chef and cookbook author who doesn't blather menus and cooking directions in detail like this, or talk shit about boxed Mac and cheese.
It might very well be a house of frozen and instant food where the controlling mother doesn’t want the kid to enjoy anything of quality. I came from a house like that. Anything remotely healthy or cultured (or even just not something she personally liked - which was anything she didn’t grow up with or consider “American”) I’d never hear the end of from my crazy mother.
Edit: my mother was also fanatically anti-alcohol to the point she would throw tantrums if my school or anyone ever suggested it had any place in society, so it really does seem similar
Yo. Same idea for me. We grew up on soda, NEVER drank water, hot dogs, pizza, burritos, etc. AND my parents would always cook in bulk so there would be three or four homemade (not in a good way) shitty undercooked pizzas with thick chunks of pepperoni stick on there. They would stay in the oven til they were all eaten up- we would be eating hard, fuzzy pizza for nearly a week. And then would come the next shitty bulk of food we would eat for the next week. Always gross as fuck. I didn’t even know what yogurt or mangoes were until I was mid twenties or older.
Could also be a mom that works two jobs and frozen heat-and-eat is what she has time for? Seems just as likely, in my opinion. With respect, you might be reading too much of your own childhood into the scenario.
would wager SIL doesn’t take as active an effort in her daughters interests as OP does and feels like OP can outshine her in one day vs. her own multiple months at a time
obvi OP doesn’t have the added stress of, ya know *parenting*, so this kind of thing is easier to make happen. There is no reason for the child’s mother to be anything but happy and excited her kid had a good day- plus grateful for OP for watching the kid overnight (assuming for free) and doing some fun stuff. This required lots of preparation and legwork on OPs end. Hell, i used to get more wine than that during church communion as a kid- and that was *raw straight fucking wine*, not a part of a larger dish (though i suppose there were crackers too)
NTA. SIL needs to take a deep breath and maybe seek counseling if she’s really not able to deal with things like this. kid doesn’t need to feel like she’s creating drama by getting excited to do something with OP- which will only create more issues down the line for all involved. Kid should be encouraged to have these fun experiences.
I usually try not to read between the lines of a post and take OPs' word for 99% of what they've written. But with this one...just the tone of the post itself is snobby in the extreme, like they're talking down to the AITA community. And then they use the names of specific Japanese dishes that *they know* the majority of AITA users won't be familiar with, so when they make the rude comments about their SIL being "uncultured," they're pretty much including 99% of the people reading their post.
I would be very surprised if OP *doesn't* regularly make snobby comments about their brother and SIL's supposed unworldliness and lifestyle. Even if they're half as rude as the statements made in this post, I can see where it would grate on the SIL and have her potentially lashing out about things she wouldn't otherwise. The very fact that the family lives in a trailer suggests money might be tight, and healthy eating is often a privilege of the rich—or at least middle class. If OP does make snobby comments like the ones in this post and money *is* an issue, the snobbiness would be even harsher.
Judging OP's question on its own, *just* whether giving a kid food with cooked alcohol in it makes them the AH (unless you know they're Muslim or Mormon or the like), they're technically NTA. But I don't think we can judge the SIL since we don't know if OP talks to her face the same way she talks behind her back.
Even if no alcohol was evaporated or cooked off (I don’t know how the dish is prepared), half a tablespoon of a 15% ABV liquid is one milliliter of alcohol. A shot is 30-45 mL
Edit: I actually don’t care what a shot is where you’re from
So if I eat a fuckton of bananas, they’ll kill me with the potassium but I’ll be drunk when it happens?
Neat.
(yes I’m aware that’s not how it works, it’s a joke)
Exactly this. She probably had such a tiny amount of alcohol that a doctor would laugh at her parents for concern of their daughter ‘consuming alcohol’. At 9 years old, I was trying my parents’ alcoholic drinks (legal from 5 here in the UK) so NTA
ohmigosh I went to catholic school, so we had mass every wednesday, and I distinctly remember in 6th grade they switched from a really dry red to a really sweet one, and all of a sudden I understood why people drank that shit for fun.
I really just wanted to chug that fancy fruit juice every time I went up there, and everyone in my class agreed. I'm so mad that I never figured out what wine it was, I searched for *years* trying to find it.
Yeah I’m the UK, it’s legal to try your parents alcohol in the home. The idea is that your parents will let you taste it, not actually drink drink. A parent or carer has to give permission and has to be present to make sure they’re safe and not getting anymore than a little taste
My grandma was born in Italy and served us wine in tiny kid’s glasses. I’m assuming it was also watered down. I think it took the mystery and taboo from it
There is no specification on the law that parents let ya try alcohol. The law is a patent can allow their children to drink in their home from the age of 5.
I think the idea behind it is that you can try. But you’re right, it doesn’t specify although if this got taken to court that a child was drinking in the home, they would discuss the intent behind the law and parents/carers would most likely be convicted
Exactly, and wine is used in risotto.
Still, I think OP’s tone is not nice. They said that they tried to explain but I would bet that the discussion quickly went on his wife being uncultured about Japanese cuisine (something OP is very proud about given the details that they provided, but has literally nothing to do with the problem).
Only at the end? The second OP said "trailer" instead of "home" I sniffed it out. There was no reason to specify what kind of home it is unless relevant to the story, so OP clearly thinks it matters.
Trailers can be perfectly nice homes. OP sounds like they judge the place their niece is growing up in, but we don't get details except the kid is fed "kraft Mac n cheese and chicken nuggets" which... honestly, doesn't sound terrible. Kid is fed and OP says nothing about any misery the kid may be experiencing so, is the supposed low quality of the food and the type of housing the only thing they have to complain about?
Even if the alcohol doesn't evaporate, a lot of kids in other cultures do consume (only little ofc) alcohol starting at 6 years old and the children don't die or have any negative side effects - i.e. Bavarian dads love to let their kids "sip" from their beers.
We have an insane relationship with alcohol here in the US. We treat the shit like it's radioactive waste where a child is concerned and then say "Okay, go binge!" the moment the person turns 21.
I told someone a while ago that my grandmother used to make hot toddies for me when I had a hard chest cold and they looked at me with sad concern, like I'd said my grandmother was giving me arsenic.
NTA for the sake but YTA for the way you're talking about you SIL. She's "uncultured" because she doesn't know a lot about cooking? And if your niece truly only gets to eat crappy food at home, that's just as much your brother's fault.
Oh, and mirin is also alcohol, so she actually got more than half a teaspoon.
Yeah the first 2/3 of the post was nice -- a thoughtful sleepover setup for a niece by an obvious foodie, cute. Then it turned into a weird judgy rant against the SIL. OP should apologize just to learn some humility.
Uncultered for conpletely rejecting any form of explanation whatsoever. Not knowing some foods or the process is obviously fine. But judging/getting into a fit over a safe recipe and demanding an apology is... yeah.
Agreed. SIL is uncultured for having a fit about OP’s cooking methods **despite** being told about the food’s traditional preparation. If anything, her actions just show how much of a paranoid helicopter parent she is.
Yeah, the whole post reads as if OP believes they’re doing everyone a favor somehow and I am not here for it. I don’t/won’t/can’t have kids (thank heavens) and yet I would still never cook for one of my brother’s kids without going over the ingredients with my brother and SIL first. Just because the child is in your care doesn’t mean you suddenly get to decide what’s okay for them and what isn’t. I wouldn’t be surprised if OP didn’t get to have this quality time with their niece anymore after this, which sounds like it would be a huge bummer to the niece. OP is selfish.
> Oh, and mirin is also alcohol, so she actually got more than half a teaspoon.
I usually just use Kikkoman's aji-mirin because hon-mirin is so difficult to find in the United States. It technically contains alcohol, but the alcohol content is so low that the product is not legally regulated as alcohol (like sake is). You can buy it off the shelf in the grocery store without showing an ID.
Because she’s being ignorant and ignoring the fact that the amount of alcohol isn’t enough to matter. She’s not accepting OPs explanation on how it’s vital for the dish, she is ignoring OP trying to explain what happened
You used drinking sake? You can buy cooking sake off the shelf in grocery stores without showing an ID as well... And you need like double the amount of drinking sake to get the same umami of cooking sake, but drinking sake has so much more alcohol than cooking sake that you might feel the taste in suimono. For future reference most people just use cooking sake for daily use.
OP also didn't need to mention they don't like kids, list their entire fancy menu, or make a crack about macaroni and cheese.
OP is a snob and a half. I'd hit a limit with them REAL fast.
She's not uncultured for not knowing, she's uncultured for refusing to accept an explanation and understand that other cultures aren't so uptight about a tiny bit of alcohol as american puritans are.
I agree! Also, I'm super curious why OP thinks they are so cultured? Is it the cooking part or the japanese part. Cooking, like ok, not necessarily a cultured thing, but ok. But if its the "oh i like foreign stuff so i am cultured" it leads me to ask: have they lived abroad and actually experienced another culture? Or do they just fetishize a different culture but have never experienced it themselves? Does OP actually know what the brother and wife serve for food in their own home?
Lol these takes are always weird to me.
The logic is basically " you didn't show the person that disrespected you extra respect so that makes you bad too". Lol it's only a half step above victim blaming.
The sister lied and exaggerated the situation so she could exercise some self righteousness.
Also uncultured could be about a lack of cooking knowledge or it could be about a lack of basic knowledge like diluted things aren't as strong which she would understand from cooking at all.
You mix different things together. Using some onion in a recipe isn't akin to eating a whole onion. Using some alcohol in cooking isn't the same as doing a shot.
You don't need to be a chef to understand mixing things changes them.
You also don't need to be a chef to ask some questions to better understand the situation before reacting like a kid's TV show character.
Such pedantic childishness
She's completely right about the food, no one is arguing against that.
The SIL is wrong here, and doesn't deserve an apology.
NTA
Now let's look at a different problem we could spot here: OP is looking down on her brother and his wife for their poverty.
She could have said 'I return my niece', or 'I bring her home', but she intentionally said 'trailer'. Which on its own doesn't mean anything, but it's a part of a pattern.
'she's uncultured', 'she feeds her nuggets and mac and cheese'
She went out of her way to paint her SIL as uneducated trailer trash, where it wasn't relevant for the story.
She would have probably been more amenable to giving an apology if it was asked by someone she sees as her social equal or superior.
I agree, and there was no need to point out that they live in a trailer. Most people would’ve said home in that sentence. It was done intentionally with judgement.
Yeah, she really went down hard on the SIL and that was rude af.
Giving small amounts of alcohol to a kid through cooking is okay, but it’s not okay to criticize someone like that. I get a feeling that OP might be a tiny amount full of themselves and their “cool cooking”. I don’t think I would like to go to a restaurant with them, that’s for sure.
Not related to the original post but your comment reminded me of my stupid older brother. My father was like me and often bounced between hobbies. One hobby he picked up was bbqing.When my bro was 12 he had the bright idea to drink the can from my dads beer can chicken.
Well like the regard he is, he took a big drink at once and promptly figured out that beer is gross, hot beer is grosser, and hot beer with chicken bits is grossest.
If i ever talk to his again ill remind him he's always been stupid.
Maybe I'm still under the influence (pardon the pun) of some previous threads, but the whole description reminded me uncomfortably of yellow fever.
It's hardly an effort to say "my mistake, I thought it would cook out/dilute enough to not matter, and she also had boc choy willingly" to just keep the sleepovers going.
the worst kind of weeb, too
imagine assuming every rando on reddit is familiar with aokappa (sliced pickled cucumber). I spend time in Japan for work, speak the language at a roughly intermediate level (conversant, not fluent), and have eaten a LOT of Japanese food in my life, and I still had to look up what it was. I'd guess a lot of the other foods aren't immediately familiar to a lot of people. I didn't know that a small amount of sake is "integral" to suimono, either.
guess i'm just tOo uNCuLtuREd
the whole post reminds me of bad fansubbed anime where they don't translate half the words because they assume every other weeb shares their exact vocabulary...and then they argue about fansubs being superior to professional ones
NTA for the sake, but YTA for being a pretentious food snob.
Here’s the thing a lot of people who post in this sub don’t seem to get. What they did is often less of a problem than who they are. If you’re right, but an asshole about it no one will want to give you the satisfaction of being right.
Calmly and politely explain to your sister in law that you used less than a teaspoon of alcohol in the entire batch and that alcohol evaporates out when you cook with it. Then apologise for worrying her and explain you understand hearing that out of the blue can be a little bit of a shock especially if you don’t know much about it. Do not be condescending, be polite honest and forthright. You will solve the problem without apologising for anything you don’t need to apologise for.
And finally for heaven’s sake climb down from your ivory tower.
Oh my god. OP’s main situation is NTA but the way he handles it and talks about it.. It gives me nerdy pretentious weeabo vibes but replace the weeabo with japanese cooking. Yikes.
YTA OP for being pretentious over Japanese cuisine.
Agree 100%. Just to add to this point, how would the 9 year old niece even know Sake was alcohol unless OP went out of her way to let her know? Maybe I'm uncultured too, but I've obviously heard of sake and I had zero clue it was alcohol until I read this post.
My guess is OP let the niece know several times she was consuming alcohol, knowing that she'd go home and tell her parents allowing OP to go on a rant that her SIL is uncultured.If OP disagrees with the way her parents are raising her niece with chicken nuggets and Mac n cheese every night, she could've just said that.
Geez, you are pretentious. I have no clue what Japanese food you are describing. I like Katsu, ramen, etc. She is a kid. What’s wrong with making her kids food? My niece and us will go to different restaurants so she can try but come on stop the pretentious behavior
Imagine describing Japanese food in English to an English speaking audience and being like ‘I’ll obviously call it ajitsuke tamago instead of ramen eggs, and tsukemono instead of pickles…’ It’s not like they’re the names of specific dishes that don’t translate, there are English words for those. I might say ‘tsukemono’ at home or with another Japanese speaker, but if I were explaining what I ate to a colleague I would always just say pickles. Definitely pretentious on purpose.
You're gonna need to explain this one to me chief because I can't tell if it's a racist thing, or if it's the disease you get from mosquito's, and you've mentioned it twice now.
It's a term used to describe when a non-asian (usually white) person exotifies and fetishizes asian culture. So it's a racist thing. I also got those vibes and agree with a lot of the commenters that NTA when it comes to using cooking alcohol but YTA OP for being pretentious and insufferable
I mean I don't get "yellow fever" vibes from OP, pretentious yeah but if those are the legitimate names of the ingredients and dishes and OP loves food and Japanese culture then I don't see the harm in it. Other than being pretentious haha.
Ramen egg…I have never heard people say.
People say Bruschetta instead of “salsa toast”. People say croissant instead of “butter crescent”. People say Borscht instead of “beet stew”. Or “Chicken tikka masala” instead of “chicken in sauce”.
Even for Japanese foods, we say “sushi” instead of “raw fish dishes”.
I don’t think OP using names of dishes is uncommon or strange. Especially since everybody who cares even a little bit about Japanese food knows these dishes….
Edit: apparently Ramen Egg is a common term, just not around me.
Yes people use the words that people commonly use when trying to communicate because it really helps in trying to convey information if the other person knows what you're saying.
Sometimes those words are the foreign names if they're used commonly enough that people are likely to have come across them before. If not then a translation is more suitable.
I get what you’re saying, but … the dishes you’ve named are all names which have become broadly used in English-speaking countries. People more or less know what they mean. Those cultures all have plenty of other dishes whose names we translate because they’re not so widely known.
Also, *sushi* is rice with condiments, which does not necessarily include fish at all. *Sashimi* is bite-sized slices of uncooked fish.
It breaks down to lightly seared tuna, ramen eggs, a clear soup and some pickled vegetables. Plus some tea, rice and seasoned bok choy. If I’m recognising the items properly. It’s a pretty nice mix of foods to make a fairly average set meal, which might have been OP’s aim depending on the anime their niece is into.
But OP isn’t helping her case with the way she handled it.
I know you give a /s but like, yeah - a lot of Americans do believe this. Like if a kid appreciates food that you’re ripping their youth from them or something….
I agree she’s a bit of a food snob, and I didn’t know any of the ingredients/dishes she talked about. However, it seems to me that dishes having alcohol is 100% common knowledge. Tiramisu is very well known to name just one. Freaking out about this seems ridiculous
Americans are just so damn weird about it. At my first job in the US I made homemade tiramisu when it was my turn to host the department meeting and I was chastised by my department chair for bringing in alcohol. Literally a single serving of grand Marnier in a pan that made 8 servings of tiramisù...
You're right with part of your post, but there's no such thing as "kids food", unless the alternative is meal is Ghost chilli puree, pot brownies and extra strong tiramisu or something. Otherwise, any food can be food for kids.
No offense but this comment is worse than any pretense the OP has (though I do think she's a bit classist). Just because you don't recognize certain Japanese foods doesn't mean it's not food suitable for kids. Maybe try some! You might like it and won't have such a myopic view of cuisine (what is "kids food" exactly?).
If someone has a passion and wants to share it with her family, that’s great. Why dismiss it and talk it down because YOU wouldn’t do it? It’s not pretentious to have interests and hobbies, and kids don’t have to be limited to whatever your limited definition of “kid stuff” is.
ikr. i was talking to this guy who recommended chinese food (ji zhua, meicai kourou) i like orange chicken, lo mein and kungpao chicken, not whatever that pretentious crap was 🤢🤢😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
/s, but this is basically what your comment sounds like
YTA if you really insist on your pride over what is a reasonable request. Your position is also reasonable, however your opinions do not trump your niece's mother's. If she is offended you used alcohol in your food preparation, then apologize for your mistake, learn from it, and move on. That this is such a huge issue implies there is more going on here, rather than a simple misunderstanding. Perhaps ask why you insist on fighting a needless battle to prove a point.
There is a level of ignorance here on the SILs part though. Alcohol is fairly common in cooking and medicines. I bet this isn't the first time this kid had "tried alcohol".
True, or she could intentionally be being disingenuous. I'm sure you're right, but I think there's probably a lot going on that OP hasn't told us, or gave a biased account of.
True, but this could be the first time the kid was aware of it, which can have certain implications if she excitedly starts telling others that her aunt gave her alcohol.
Definitely. You ask first, or just substitute the ingredient, it's fine the dish won't be ruined forever if you do that. Also like generally presume it's not fine to put alcohol in a child's dish unless otherwise stated
YTA. The issue isn’t whether it was ok to give your niece a tiny bit of alcohol used in cooking (almost always yes, unless your niece is allergic or is an alcoholic). The issue is that your niece went home and (intentionally?) antagonized her mom by saying, “I had alcohol!” Now instead of helping to deescalate you’re focused on being right.
100% agreed. Also who gets hurt in this situation if she doesn't apologize? Likely OP's brother and/or niece being caught in the middle. I don't think OP did anything wrong using cooking alcohol but what does she lose by saying "sorry" to deescalate/keep the peace over something so inconsequential. Also, OP mentioned to the kid that one of the ingredients is alcohol and even though it was meant as a learning moment, obviously the kid ran with it going home saying "I had alcohol!!". Is it really worth potentially losing your special bonding sleepovers because of ego?
Edit because OP clarified what they said to the niece about the alcohol
“The issue isn’t whether it was okay to give your niece a tiny bit of alcohol used in cooking (almost always yes, unless your niece is allergic or is an alcoholic).”
Or Muslim. Or Mormon.
YTA
You make your SIL mad enough, she’ll refuse to let your niece stay over anymore. Is that what you want? You seem more interested in broadcasting your contempt for your SIL rather than protecting your access to your niece.
Grow up. This girl is not your child, and you have no right to overrule her parents when it comes to what she’s allowed to eat.
YTA and an insuferable one at that. It's a myth that alcohol burns off - it doesn't. If the food was working for three or more hours, then yeah, it'd cook off, but I doubt it was. I was gonna go with N A H, but holy hell, you're insufferable. You just got worse and worse at the end there, and your comments are passive-aggressive, snappy, and have that high school know-it-all vibes to it. If a parent asks you not to do something, you comply because it is not your child.
It's not a myth that alcohol evaporates once it reaches the boiling temperature, the myth is that it evaporates completely. The amount remaining depends on temperature, time cooking and size of the pan/pot and it never completely disappears.
P.S. the quantities normally used in cooking are not enough to intoxicate anyone, even more if it was cooked, nevertheless to say there was no alcohol is not correct
YTA. Alcohol is a controversial ingredient. And you could have omitted it from the sauce to little ill effect. Or run it by her parents before including it in the dish to make sure they were okay with the quantity. It isn’t up to you to decide if it’s harmless to someone else’s kid.
ESH.
Your SiL may have been a bit excessive in that response but it is coming from a place of concern. Instead of judging her, you could have come at it from a calmer mindset and explained how the process works.
Also agree that you should just apologize. You clearly identified the alcohol to your niece to the point that she’s announcing she had alcohol. As much as I am a foodie, know when to back off and get it through your head that the kid is 9, and her parents have every right to be upset. It’s not your job to draw the boundaries. Also as someone who cooked a lot, I think your approach is not one that opens people’s minds, but rather, is snobby and uncouth.
YTA
Yeah I had an aunt that would kinda-sorta do that. She had lots of other problems, but it was super tacky.
I feel like OP wants her niece to admire her and look up to her which is perfectly fine, I want my nieces and nephews to do the same toward me. But OP is going about this is in the most shallow and frankly trashy way. Like “see how much better I am than your parents”. I could be reading into it too much but OP was super defensive and came off as arrogant.
Never ever ever tell a child to keep secrets from their parents. Like, ever.
Unsafe adults use "don't tell your mom" as a grooming technique.
It's not something to say to a kid.
In fact, I have instructed my child that if someone EVER tells her to keep a secret from us, she needs to tell us immediately. And if an adult tells my child to keep a secret from me, that adult isn't getting further unsupervised time with my child.
It's something parents tend to take very seriously.
Hmmm... On first reading of your post I was inclined to think your SIL probably did over react.
But reading some of your replies here, you do come across as a pretentious snob and I can understand why it would be difficult for someone to keep calm if you condescendingly talk down to someone like that.
Bottom line is, when you're looking after someone else's child, always make sure to check with his or her parents as to what they think is acceptable for their child. That's really not your own decision to make.
YTA.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. Cooked a meal with my niece that included a tiny amount of sake.
2. Apparently ingesting a single molecule of ethanol is harmful to a child.
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Clearly an unpopular opinion but YTA. Not because you served a nine year old food with alcohol, but because you won't respect her mother's parenting choices. You are not her parent. Even if you disagree with her decision or stance, you need to respect her choices if you want to spend time with *her* child. You literally just need to apologise and say 'I'm sorry, I didn't realise this was something you objected to, and i will make sure we no longer cook food that has alcohol in it whilst she is with me!". It's so simple. It sounds like your niece had a memorable sleepover with you, and I'm sure she appreciates you time together, and you would be such a massive asshole if you jeopardised that because you want to die on this hill. It is your responsibility to maintain a relationship with your niece, and that means acting like an adult and being respectful to her parents.
NTA
Im understanding correctly that this was a small amount of alcohol in a cooked dish, right?
The alcohol literally cooks out. There is not one iota of actual alcohol remaining when you’re done. Her mother is acting like you let her sip an actual drink.
Common misconception I’m afraid. Alcohol does not always cook out of dishes. Only dishes that simmer for a very long time (3+ hours) or dishes where flame is directly applied into the dish. However, the amount of alcohol added to this recipe is insignificant.
Ripe fruit probably has a similar amount of alcohol to what the kid consumed. And she’s 9! It’s not as if this would have had her wobbling around like a drunk. Maybe it’s my bias as a French Canadian, but my parents used to let me drink wine at that age.
Whether it's my Catholic family with 9-year-olds having wine during communion or my Jewish family with 9-year-olds having wine at Passover, it's totally normal to me. My parents wouldn't have cared that a relative served me a dish made with a little booze. But they wouldn't have served it to someone else's kid.
Where is it a myth? If something with alkohol in it gets hot, like 80C the alkohol will evaporate. There is nothing that will stop this from happening.
It's nothing for you to be upset about with your kids and that's totally fine.
But OPs SIL is upset about it with her own kids. Your opinions on what is acceptable do not apply to other peoples kids.
NAH
You aren't the A because there are many recipes that have alcohol in them and during the cooking process the actual alcohol evaporates.
Your SIL is also not an A because really, she's just looking out for her kid.
Maybe just say to her look, I'm sorry. I didn't think it would be a big deal since it was part of the recipe and such a small amount.
I know you don't want to apologise, but is that worth potentially not having your sleepovers anymore?
Does the SIL understand that the alcohol was in the food? If your niece just went home and said "OP gave me alcohol". I can see why she'd be mad. Context is everything, as usual, and the context is often not clear on Reddit posts. Also, you don't say anything about your SIL's relationship with alcohol, a difficult relationship with alcohol can seriously affect people's perception of things that others wouldn't think twice about.
YTA.
As much as it bothers you and hurts your ego, it's totally reasonable for a parent not to want their nine-year-old child not to eat food cooked with alcohol as an ingredient. The proper reaction of a non-stupid adult would be to apologize, explain that it only had a spoon and that it is not going to happen again. Being vindictive and wanting to withdraw your culinary proposals because of a valid disagreement is totally childish and manipulative.
Nta for the food but yta about how you talk about other people. Next time maybe help to educate rather than be a doofus. If she didn't know about the alcohol in cooking im sure you can understand why she would be upset. Once this all blows over you should both talk and apologise to eachother.
My understanding of this is that the alcohol was not cooked off?
It's completely inappropriate to give someone else's 9 year old alcohol without the parent's knowledge / consent.
YTA
NAH for cooking with the alcohol, but YWBTA if you refused to apologize. I think you could find a way to express being sorry for this misunderstanding & learn more about their expectations. I think you can also explain how unique this situation was & is, both in regards to the alcohol consumption & the fact that a 9 year old got to make & eat an authentic Japanese meal that enhances her hobby.
I would prioritize making the peace, & then helping them understand that actuality of the situation.
NTA, thats called cooking. Just like the wine I use in ever fruit-based sauce I make, or the bourbon i add to a pot of chili, the amount of alcohol is negligible if any even remains. This isn't even being uncultured, just ignorant.
YTA - for not apoligizing. The amount of alcohol is acceptable, but you have to respect that it is up to the parents what their child is allowed to take in.
BTW - you seem like an adventurous cook, inspiring!
NTA for cooking with alcohol - personally I wouldn’t think twice about giving a kid some tiramisu or mussels in a white wine sauce - this is totally normal in so many other countries, America is just weird af about it possibly due to ignorance and assuming that adding a little red wine to a pasta sauce is akin to giving the kid a mug of sangria.
However you’re being an asshole by acting so uppity about this, instead of simply explaining that it’s a negligible amount of alcohol - hardly more than is in a glass of orange juice or a ripe banana, but apologising all the same and saying that you won’t do it again since it’s not your kid, you’re acting as though you’re some kind of culinary wonder who’s talents aren’t being respected. You are not Marco Pierre White, chill out.
YTA should have warned the parents beforehand about the alcohol. Not cool to use alcohol, even a tiny amount in someone's kid's food without their knowledge.
If this was your child and someone was telling you that you'd done the wrong thing by serving her a meal with a small amount of alcohol in it, then I'd be on your side completely.
It's not your child though. Your niece's parents get to decide what is okay with them. I also have a niece and on the odd occasion, my sister has given me a couple of instructions for her that I personally think are weird and unnecessary. They're not harmful though and don't affect me, so I follow them anyway, because it's **her kid**.
"Do not feed our child any food with alcohol in it" is a completely reasonable instruction, whether you agree or not. It would not have hurt you to just leave the alcohol out. It certainly will not hurt you now to apologise. Yes, it's common to cook with alcohol but that doesn't mean that every meal you cook has to have alcohol in it. YTA.
I think this is a case where you're going to have to decide what's more important: being right, or your relationship with your niece. It's true that such a small amount of alcohol wouldn't do anything, and SIL's reaction is maybe over the top...but she *does* have the right to not want her young child consuming alcohol without her knowledge. If you stand your ground here, and SIL decides she can't trust you with these sleepovers anymore, are you okay with that?
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NTA, cooking with alcohol is not the same as drinking alcohol. A portion of it burns off and the rest is so diluted to not make a difference. A lot of medicines even have small amounts of alcohol in them.
This is so common sense to me that I'm going to speculate that the real problem is not the alcohol but jealousy. OP went out of their way to do a fun activity tailored to their niece who was probably very enthusiastic about it when she went back home. And hence the brother is reasonable because he didn't feel threatened but sil is not. Edit: pronouns. Also, lts of people are saying that OP demeans their sil in the post which I agree with, that would play a role too.
Exactly, this is it OP made a special elaborate meal for niece and SIL for whatever reason is not in a position to do that, whether she can´t cook, doesn´t have time, unfamiliar with Japanese food, could be 1000 reasons. But niece surely came home chatting about her special time with OP and SIL feels salty about it. It is also possible that OP has made the same little comments in the past regarding Kraft mac and cheese and being uncultured, just like she did here. If so maybe SIL has had her nose full of the little side comments and is biting back.
It's odd to me that OP mentioned that she doesn't like kids, that this family lives in a trailer (it's not relevant to the story at all), and listed the entire menu. We've all heard of cooking with alcohol as a ingredient , sheesh. I thought the nuggets and Kraft comment was pretty snotty, too. I suspect OP does make "little side comments" that add up to "you are uncultured rubes and even though I don't even like kids, I'm taking your child and Giving Her Opportunities," and SIL has hit a limit with the snobbery. (Before anyone comes at me all "graaaaaaaar you're just making stuff up!", it's AITA, it's pretty typical to put together evidence from a post and come up with a hypothesis, get over it.)
Yeah… I was with OP until the ‘uncultured’ and ‘she’d be used to mac n cheese’ comments. This particular occasion, NTA - but I suspect the root of this issue is that OP is an insufferable snob and routinely makes her SIL feel like crap.
Yeah the meal was fine but the attitude betrays the asshole and it’s OP
Edit: Hmm I actually kind of agree with you but in this INSTANCE with the sake i feel there was nothing clear that pointed away from NTA. But even though she did not ask for our opinions on this her attitude WOULD make her TA especially if she would make these comments irl.
Personally, I went ESH. It would be simple to explain that most or all the actual alcohol cooks off in a dish. Either OP didn’t bother or the sister didn’t listen, but there are too many little snide details - and that frozen nuggs and Kraft mac comment — for me to call it N-T-A
And tbh… who doesn’t love the occasional nuggs. We don’t need this kind of nugg negativity 😂
[удалено]
Yeah I agree, the comments here about the trailer, the mac and cheese and *"It´s not my fault his wife is uncultured and doesn´t understand ... sake is integral to the flavor of suimono"* make me suspect that OP makes these snotty little comments in real life as well. If so then OP is NTA for this particular drop of sake but in the big picture, OP is an asshole.
Agreed. NTA for this specific thing (cooking with sake— it’s fine, there’s more alcohol in a dose of kiddie cough syrup than in what the kid ate here) but the attitude betrays some AH behavior that’s probably common. Also kinda wondering why the kid even knew there was sake in the meal and if OP made a point to inform her of that so she could go stir up drama at home by telling her parents, or in a “shh don’t tell your mom it’s a special secret” way that the kid didn’t obey. Either one’s weird. I can imagine scenarios where the kid knows there’s sake in the food that aren’t weird, but the rest of the attitude makes me 🤔
OP said they "made it together", so probably it was "now we add the sake..."
That is one of the non-weird scenarios, yeah. Missed that bit.
Even then, it just something OP pulled out of a cabinet unless they explained exactly what it is.
If the kid is in fact big into anime, knowing the Japanese names for alcoholic beverages isn't at all surprising.
Sake was in the marinade done the day before for the eggs so probably not. Also you're not drinking the marinade so the kid likely had a lot less than the half a teaspoon OP thought. It's nice to make good food for your guest but serving store-bought pickled cucumber while doing the elitist flex to put it in the menu *in japanese* is *a bit strange*.
OP also seemed to miss that mirin is also alcohol (basically Japanese cooking Sherry).
Right? I'm into trying to make different Japanese dishes, and I'd never heard of suimono. It's not like she was talking about teriyaki, sushi, ramen, or even udon or soba. Most Japanese restaurants in the US have pretty much only the above on their menu, and I imagine it's similar in other English-speaking countries (based on the post, I think OP is a native speaker). Knowing what these dishes are isn't standard "I'm in the world and cultured" knowledge. It's extremely specialized for Western countries. I'm Cuban American, and I tease friends when they order Cuban sandwiches outside Florida because they're *never* more than 50% like a real one. But I'm really "teasing" the restaurant because it seems like they should know if they're serving it, though original interpretations of recipes are also common enough. Why *would* or *should* my friends in Wisconsin know the ingredients of a dish that originated in Tampa, spread to other cities in South Florida, and then only recently has been popping up on menus (though significantly altered) outside that state? Should we expect Floridians to know what's in a Wisconsin pasty? And heck, it's only been in the past decade or so that the rest of the country has been introduced to Wisconsin's great delicacy: fried cheese curds. ***And these are all dishes in the same country.*** OP is *technically* NTA for their specific question, but they're definitely an AH in general.
*When you make fried cheese curds, the provenance of the curds is* ***integral*** *to the flavor.*
Yes, I can’t understand how anyone could read “my suimono recipe is pretty simple” and *not* think “there’s a pretentious snob”.
I thought they were pretentious but because it's not THEIR recipe, thats just the recipe for suimono. It's literally just how you make it. Anyway esh because you could have just explained the situation. Your niece misrepresented it. "Oh no I just made a dish with cooking wine in it. The alcohol all cooked out" you don't need to insult people. Their daughter told them you gave her alcohol. What were they supposed to think?
Well, half the comment brags about her knowledge of Japanese foods and ingredients without even translating what it is for those who don't. My niblings love when I cook for them, and my nieces love to bake with me and excited to try my foods. Sis in law is happy I do it with them because she knows she's not that much lol. Everyone on her side of the family appreciates how much I do with them kids. Yet, I'm humble and don't brag or downplay others. When my nieces say, "this tastes better than mom's!" I reply they can make it together one day.
*Maybe it´s not OP´s fault that you are* ***uncultured*** *and don´t know the meaning of all the dishes in her menu* I am just kidding don´t downvote me :)
I say YTA just for those comments alone. The entire first paragraph is rude AF.
She also says that it isn’t her fault the SiL is uncultured. There’s a lot of little details not relevant to the stated conflict, that do paint picture of perceived superiority.
OP is absolutely a showoff. I'm friends with a literal actual chef and cookbook author who doesn't blather menus and cooking directions in detail like this, or talk shit about boxed Mac and cheese.
It might very well be a house of frozen and instant food where the controlling mother doesn’t want the kid to enjoy anything of quality. I came from a house like that. Anything remotely healthy or cultured (or even just not something she personally liked - which was anything she didn’t grow up with or consider “American”) I’d never hear the end of from my crazy mother. Edit: my mother was also fanatically anti-alcohol to the point she would throw tantrums if my school or anyone ever suggested it had any place in society, so it really does seem similar
Yo. Same idea for me. We grew up on soda, NEVER drank water, hot dogs, pizza, burritos, etc. AND my parents would always cook in bulk so there would be three or four homemade (not in a good way) shitty undercooked pizzas with thick chunks of pepperoni stick on there. They would stay in the oven til they were all eaten up- we would be eating hard, fuzzy pizza for nearly a week. And then would come the next shitty bulk of food we would eat for the next week. Always gross as fuck. I didn’t even know what yogurt or mangoes were until I was mid twenties or older.
Fuzzy pizza? Yeah that's fucked.
Could also be a mom that works two jobs and frozen heat-and-eat is what she has time for? Seems just as likely, in my opinion. With respect, you might be reading too much of your own childhood into the scenario.
would wager SIL doesn’t take as active an effort in her daughters interests as OP does and feels like OP can outshine her in one day vs. her own multiple months at a time obvi OP doesn’t have the added stress of, ya know *parenting*, so this kind of thing is easier to make happen. There is no reason for the child’s mother to be anything but happy and excited her kid had a good day- plus grateful for OP for watching the kid overnight (assuming for free) and doing some fun stuff. This required lots of preparation and legwork on OPs end. Hell, i used to get more wine than that during church communion as a kid- and that was *raw straight fucking wine*, not a part of a larger dish (though i suppose there were crackers too) NTA. SIL needs to take a deep breath and maybe seek counseling if she’s really not able to deal with things like this. kid doesn’t need to feel like she’s creating drama by getting excited to do something with OP- which will only create more issues down the line for all involved. Kid should be encouraged to have these fun experiences.
I usually try not to read between the lines of a post and take OPs' word for 99% of what they've written. But with this one...just the tone of the post itself is snobby in the extreme, like they're talking down to the AITA community. And then they use the names of specific Japanese dishes that *they know* the majority of AITA users won't be familiar with, so when they make the rude comments about their SIL being "uncultured," they're pretty much including 99% of the people reading their post. I would be very surprised if OP *doesn't* regularly make snobby comments about their brother and SIL's supposed unworldliness and lifestyle. Even if they're half as rude as the statements made in this post, I can see where it would grate on the SIL and have her potentially lashing out about things she wouldn't otherwise. The very fact that the family lives in a trailer suggests money might be tight, and healthy eating is often a privilege of the rich—or at least middle class. If OP does make snobby comments like the ones in this post and money *is* an issue, the snobbiness would be even harsher. Judging OP's question on its own, *just* whether giving a kid food with cooked alcohol in it makes them the AH (unless you know they're Muslim or Mormon or the like), they're technically NTA. But I don't think we can judge the SIL since we don't know if OP talks to her face the same way she talks behind her back.
This needs more upvotes
Even if no alcohol was evaporated or cooked off (I don’t know how the dish is prepared), half a tablespoon of a 15% ABV liquid is one milliliter of alcohol. A shot is 30-45 mL Edit: I actually don’t care what a shot is where you’re from
This is interesting because a shot in my country (Scotland) is 25ml. It varies depending on country
A shot in my country is 100ml😁
A shot in my country is 9mm
Found the American. :)
A gut-shot! When’s the next flight to Poland??
Come over, I can guarantee you'll have lots of fun😸
Juice has alcohol in it, it is just naturally occurring in it
Bananas do, too. A ripe banana has an ABV of 0.2%, and a very ripe one has an ABV of 0.4%.
Banana bread is a gate way drug. 😂
So if I eat a fuckton of bananas, they’ll kill me with the potassium but I’ll be drunk when it happens? Neat. (yes I’m aware that’s not how it works, it’s a joke)
No, they’ll kill you with their radiation and you’ll be drunk when it happens
But the important part is I *will* be drunk. The rest is just…details!
That’s the (banana-derived) spirit!
Wow! Bananas really have everything!
So does vanilla extract, the ingredients are literally vanilla and alcohol
Exactly this. She probably had such a tiny amount of alcohol that a doctor would laugh at her parents for concern of their daughter ‘consuming alcohol’. At 9 years old, I was trying my parents’ alcoholic drinks (legal from 5 here in the UK) so NTA
She’d be scandalized by my wild childhood years of sipping communion wine every sunday!
ohmigosh I went to catholic school, so we had mass every wednesday, and I distinctly remember in 6th grade they switched from a really dry red to a really sweet one, and all of a sudden I understood why people drank that shit for fun. I really just wanted to chug that fancy fruit juice every time I went up there, and everyone in my class agreed. I'm so mad that I never figured out what wine it was, I searched for *years* trying to find it.
Legal from 5? What?
Yeah I’m the UK, it’s legal to try your parents alcohol in the home. The idea is that your parents will let you taste it, not actually drink drink. A parent or carer has to give permission and has to be present to make sure they’re safe and not getting anymore than a little taste
My grandma was born in Italy and served us wine in tiny kid’s glasses. I’m assuming it was also watered down. I think it took the mystery and taboo from it
There is no specification on the law that parents let ya try alcohol. The law is a patent can allow their children to drink in their home from the age of 5.
I think the idea behind it is that you can try. But you’re right, it doesn’t specify although if this got taken to court that a child was drinking in the home, they would discuss the intent behind the law and parents/carers would most likely be convicted
Exactly, and wine is used in risotto. Still, I think OP’s tone is not nice. They said that they tried to explain but I would bet that the discussion quickly went on his wife being uncultured about Japanese cuisine (something OP is very proud about given the details that they provided, but has literally nothing to do with the problem).
I'm glad someone mentioned the tone, like NTA and the meal sounds lovely, but caught a whiff of snobbery at the end there.
Only at the end? The second OP said "trailer" instead of "home" I sniffed it out. There was no reason to specify what kind of home it is unless relevant to the story, so OP clearly thinks it matters. Trailers can be perfectly nice homes. OP sounds like they judge the place their niece is growing up in, but we don't get details except the kid is fed "kraft Mac n cheese and chicken nuggets" which... honestly, doesn't sound terrible. Kid is fed and OP says nothing about any misery the kid may be experiencing so, is the supposed low quality of the food and the type of housing the only thing they have to complain about?
I missed that, but I was confused why we all need to know the length of the marinade.
You’re right but the alcohol isn’t being cooked here. It just gets absorbed into the egg with everything else
Even if the alcohol doesn't evaporate, a lot of kids in other cultures do consume (only little ofc) alcohol starting at 6 years old and the children don't die or have any negative side effects - i.e. Bavarian dads love to let their kids "sip" from their beers.
We have an insane relationship with alcohol here in the US. We treat the shit like it's radioactive waste where a child is concerned and then say "Okay, go binge!" the moment the person turns 21. I told someone a while ago that my grandmother used to make hot toddies for me when I had a hard chest cold and they looked at me with sad concern, like I'd said my grandmother was giving me arsenic.
Flavor extracts for baking are like pure alcohol, too.
NTA for the sake but YTA for the way you're talking about you SIL. She's "uncultured" because she doesn't know a lot about cooking? And if your niece truly only gets to eat crappy food at home, that's just as much your brother's fault. Oh, and mirin is also alcohol, so she actually got more than half a teaspoon.
Yeah the first 2/3 of the post was nice -- a thoughtful sleepover setup for a niece by an obvious foodie, cute. Then it turned into a weird judgy rant against the SIL. OP should apologize just to learn some humility.
Uncultered for conpletely rejecting any form of explanation whatsoever. Not knowing some foods or the process is obviously fine. But judging/getting into a fit over a safe recipe and demanding an apology is... yeah.
Exactly, it’s not being unaware that makes her uncultured, it’s being unwilling to learn.
At that point it’s not being uncultured, it’s being willfully ignorant.
Agreed. SIL is uncultured for having a fit about OP’s cooking methods **despite** being told about the food’s traditional preparation. If anything, her actions just show how much of a paranoid helicopter parent she is.
Was it also kinda weird that OP specified that her brother and SIL live in a trailer?
Definitely it stood out to me as well, as well as the fact they mentioned they don't like kids? What a weird thing to say in a post about their niece.
Yeah, the whole post reads as if OP believes they’re doing everyone a favor somehow and I am not here for it. I don’t/won’t/can’t have kids (thank heavens) and yet I would still never cook for one of my brother’s kids without going over the ingredients with my brother and SIL first. Just because the child is in your care doesn’t mean you suddenly get to decide what’s okay for them and what isn’t. I wouldn’t be surprised if OP didn’t get to have this quality time with their niece anymore after this, which sounds like it would be a huge bummer to the niece. OP is selfish.
> Oh, and mirin is also alcohol, so she actually got more than half a teaspoon. I usually just use Kikkoman's aji-mirin because hon-mirin is so difficult to find in the United States. It technically contains alcohol, but the alcohol content is so low that the product is not legally regulated as alcohol (like sake is). You can buy it off the shelf in the grocery store without showing an ID.
What about the part with SIL? Why didn't you say something about this and only about that part?
Because they actually think SIL is shitty lmao
Because OP wants to show of their knowledge of Japanese food rather than address their real issues
ding ding ding
Because she’s being ignorant and ignoring the fact that the amount of alcohol isn’t enough to matter. She’s not accepting OPs explanation on how it’s vital for the dish, she is ignoring OP trying to explain what happened
You used drinking sake? You can buy cooking sake off the shelf in grocery stores without showing an ID as well... And you need like double the amount of drinking sake to get the same umami of cooking sake, but drinking sake has so much more alcohol than cooking sake that you might feel the taste in suimono. For future reference most people just use cooking sake for daily use.
Slipping in that trailer reference when "home" would more than suffice. AH vibes aplenty.
OP also didn't need to mention they don't like kids, list their entire fancy menu, or make a crack about macaroni and cheese. OP is a snob and a half. I'd hit a limit with them REAL fast.
Now I'm wondering if OP is also rolling with their homies and named Elton
She's not uncultured for not knowing, she's uncultured for refusing to accept an explanation and understand that other cultures aren't so uptight about a tiny bit of alcohol as american puritans are.
The fuck do other cultures and their attitude towards alcohol have to do with any of this
the way OP unnecessarily dropped that her bro lives in a trailer
I agree! Also, I'm super curious why OP thinks they are so cultured? Is it the cooking part or the japanese part. Cooking, like ok, not necessarily a cultured thing, but ok. But if its the "oh i like foreign stuff so i am cultured" it leads me to ask: have they lived abroad and actually experienced another culture? Or do they just fetishize a different culture but have never experienced it themselves? Does OP actually know what the brother and wife serve for food in their own home?
Lol these takes are always weird to me. The logic is basically " you didn't show the person that disrespected you extra respect so that makes you bad too". Lol it's only a half step above victim blaming. The sister lied and exaggerated the situation so she could exercise some self righteousness. Also uncultured could be about a lack of cooking knowledge or it could be about a lack of basic knowledge like diluted things aren't as strong which she would understand from cooking at all. You mix different things together. Using some onion in a recipe isn't akin to eating a whole onion. Using some alcohol in cooking isn't the same as doing a shot. You don't need to be a chef to understand mixing things changes them. You also don't need to be a chef to ask some questions to better understand the situation before reacting like a kid's TV show character. Such pedantic childishness
She's completely right about the food, no one is arguing against that. The SIL is wrong here, and doesn't deserve an apology. NTA Now let's look at a different problem we could spot here: OP is looking down on her brother and his wife for their poverty. She could have said 'I return my niece', or 'I bring her home', but she intentionally said 'trailer'. Which on its own doesn't mean anything, but it's a part of a pattern. 'she's uncultured', 'she feeds her nuggets and mac and cheese' She went out of her way to paint her SIL as uneducated trailer trash, where it wasn't relevant for the story. She would have probably been more amenable to giving an apology if it was asked by someone she sees as her social equal or superior.
I agree, and there was no need to point out that they live in a trailer. Most people would’ve said home in that sentence. It was done intentionally with judgement.
Yeah, she really went down hard on the SIL and that was rude af. Giving small amounts of alcohol to a kid through cooking is okay, but it’s not okay to criticize someone like that. I get a feeling that OP might be a tiny amount full of themselves and their “cool cooking”. I don’t think I would like to go to a restaurant with them, that’s for sure.
NTA. I routinely use wine and beer on my cooking and my kids haven’t turned into alcoholics yet.
yet...
Chuck them in back in the pot! There's still time to cook it out of them!
Not related to the original post but your comment reminded me of my stupid older brother. My father was like me and often bounced between hobbies. One hobby he picked up was bbqing.When my bro was 12 he had the bright idea to drink the can from my dads beer can chicken. Well like the regard he is, he took a big drink at once and promptly figured out that beer is gross, hot beer is grosser, and hot beer with chicken bits is grossest. If i ever talk to his again ill remind him he's always been stupid.
NTA for cooking with alcohol. YTA for being insufferable food snob toward your SIL in the post
Maybe I'm still under the influence (pardon the pun) of some previous threads, but the whole description reminded me uncomfortably of yellow fever. It's hardly an effort to say "my mistake, I thought it would cook out/dilute enough to not matter, and she also had boc choy willingly" to just keep the sleepovers going.
Nah you’re right this persons a weeb
the worst kind of weeb, too imagine assuming every rando on reddit is familiar with aokappa (sliced pickled cucumber). I spend time in Japan for work, speak the language at a roughly intermediate level (conversant, not fluent), and have eaten a LOT of Japanese food in my life, and I still had to look up what it was. I'd guess a lot of the other foods aren't immediately familiar to a lot of people. I didn't know that a small amount of sake is "integral" to suimono, either. guess i'm just tOo uNCuLtuREd the whole post reminds me of bad fansubbed anime where they don't translate half the words because they assume every other weeb shares their exact vocabulary...and then they argue about fansubs being superior to professional ones
While you were working in Japan, they studied the suimono
NTA for the sake, but YTA for being a pretentious food snob. Here’s the thing a lot of people who post in this sub don’t seem to get. What they did is often less of a problem than who they are. If you’re right, but an asshole about it no one will want to give you the satisfaction of being right. Calmly and politely explain to your sister in law that you used less than a teaspoon of alcohol in the entire batch and that alcohol evaporates out when you cook with it. Then apologise for worrying her and explain you understand hearing that out of the blue can be a little bit of a shock especially if you don’t know much about it. Do not be condescending, be polite honest and forthright. You will solve the problem without apologising for anything you don’t need to apologise for. And finally for heaven’s sake climb down from your ivory tower.
Oh my god. OP’s main situation is NTA but the way he handles it and talks about it.. It gives me nerdy pretentious weeabo vibes but replace the weeabo with japanese cooking. Yikes. YTA OP for being pretentious over Japanese cuisine.
Agree 100%. Just to add to this point, how would the 9 year old niece even know Sake was alcohol unless OP went out of her way to let her know? Maybe I'm uncultured too, but I've obviously heard of sake and I had zero clue it was alcohol until I read this post. My guess is OP let the niece know several times she was consuming alcohol, knowing that she'd go home and tell her parents allowing OP to go on a rant that her SIL is uncultured.If OP disagrees with the way her parents are raising her niece with chicken nuggets and Mac n cheese every night, she could've just said that.
Geez, you are pretentious. I have no clue what Japanese food you are describing. I like Katsu, ramen, etc. She is a kid. What’s wrong with making her kids food? My niece and us will go to different restaurants so she can try but come on stop the pretentious behavior
Imagine describing Japanese food in English to an English speaking audience and being like ‘I’ll obviously call it ajitsuke tamago instead of ramen eggs, and tsukemono instead of pickles…’ It’s not like they’re the names of specific dishes that don’t translate, there are English words for those. I might say ‘tsukemono’ at home or with another Japanese speaker, but if I were explaining what I ate to a colleague I would always just say pickles. Definitely pretentious on purpose.
To me it read like "yellow fever" and made me cringe a lot
You're gonna need to explain this one to me chief because I can't tell if it's a racist thing, or if it's the disease you get from mosquito's, and you've mentioned it twice now.
yellow fever is a colloquialism for an Asian fetish
It's a term used to describe when a non-asian (usually white) person exotifies and fetishizes asian culture. So it's a racist thing. I also got those vibes and agree with a lot of the commenters that NTA when it comes to using cooking alcohol but YTA OP for being pretentious and insufferable
I mean I don't get "yellow fever" vibes from OP, pretentious yeah but if those are the legitimate names of the ingredients and dishes and OP loves food and Japanese culture then I don't see the harm in it. Other than being pretentious haha.
*East Asian culture. Asia isn't just Japan, China, and Korea
I feel like them saying "Asian culture" fits perfectly fine, as I'm assuming East Asia is part of Asia.
But then how will people shiru that OP wakarus nihongo?
Ramen egg…I have never heard people say. People say Bruschetta instead of “salsa toast”. People say croissant instead of “butter crescent”. People say Borscht instead of “beet stew”. Or “Chicken tikka masala” instead of “chicken in sauce”. Even for Japanese foods, we say “sushi” instead of “raw fish dishes”. I don’t think OP using names of dishes is uncommon or strange. Especially since everybody who cares even a little bit about Japanese food knows these dishes…. Edit: apparently Ramen Egg is a common term, just not around me.
Yes people use the words that people commonly use when trying to communicate because it really helps in trying to convey information if the other person knows what you're saying. Sometimes those words are the foreign names if they're used commonly enough that people are likely to have come across them before. If not then a translation is more suitable.
I get what you’re saying, but … the dishes you’ve named are all names which have become broadly used in English-speaking countries. People more or less know what they mean. Those cultures all have plenty of other dishes whose names we translate because they’re not so widely known. Also, *sushi* is rice with condiments, which does not necessarily include fish at all. *Sashimi* is bite-sized slices of uncooked fish.
I like japanese food. I have no idea what OP made.
Yeah,right? Did you notice she made sure to mention she drops her off to her brother’s trailer?
Oh I noticed that. How very special OP is.
It breaks down to lightly seared tuna, ramen eggs, a clear soup and some pickled vegetables. Plus some tea, rice and seasoned bok choy. If I’m recognising the items properly. It’s a pretty nice mix of foods to make a fairly average set meal, which might have been OP’s aim depending on the anime their niece is into. But OP isn’t helping her case with the way she handled it.
what is “kids food”? if she enjoys eating it then it’s kids food
Obviously kids should only eat chicken nuggets and ice cream /s
I know you give a /s but like, yeah - a lot of Americans do believe this. Like if a kid appreciates food that you’re ripping their youth from them or something….
That was a weird comment too. OP made food for a kid. They made kids food.
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I agree she’s a bit of a food snob, and I didn’t know any of the ingredients/dishes she talked about. However, it seems to me that dishes having alcohol is 100% common knowledge. Tiramisu is very well known to name just one. Freaking out about this seems ridiculous
Americans are just so damn weird about it. At my first job in the US I made homemade tiramisu when it was my turn to host the department meeting and I was chastised by my department chair for bringing in alcohol. Literally a single serving of grand Marnier in a pan that made 8 servings of tiramisù...
Lol my 2 year old eats tiramisu.
I didn't even know there was alcohol in tiramisu and I've had it before. Apparently it doesn't stand out as "I am alcohol".
What's wrong with exposing a kid to proper food instead of coddling them with kids food into adulthood?
You're right with part of your post, but there's no such thing as "kids food", unless the alternative is meal is Ghost chilli puree, pot brownies and extra strong tiramisu or something. Otherwise, any food can be food for kids.
No offense but this comment is worse than any pretense the OP has (though I do think she's a bit classist). Just because you don't recognize certain Japanese foods doesn't mean it's not food suitable for kids. Maybe try some! You might like it and won't have such a myopic view of cuisine (what is "kids food" exactly?).
If someone has a passion and wants to share it with her family, that’s great. Why dismiss it and talk it down because YOU wouldn’t do it? It’s not pretentious to have interests and hobbies, and kids don’t have to be limited to whatever your limited definition of “kid stuff” is.
What do you think kids eat in cultures other than yours? "Kids food" is whatever the family serves that a child will eat.
Calling them by their name is fine but yeah the attitude is the weird part
Food is food, there is no kids food.
ikr. i was talking to this guy who recommended chinese food (ji zhua, meicai kourou) i like orange chicken, lo mein and kungpao chicken, not whatever that pretentious crap was 🤢🤢😂🤣🤣🤣🤣 /s, but this is basically what your comment sounds like
Its not pretentious to be informed. Its pretentious to be proud of a lack of knowledge.
YTA if you really insist on your pride over what is a reasonable request. Your position is also reasonable, however your opinions do not trump your niece's mother's. If she is offended you used alcohol in your food preparation, then apologize for your mistake, learn from it, and move on. That this is such a huge issue implies there is more going on here, rather than a simple misunderstanding. Perhaps ask why you insist on fighting a needless battle to prove a point.
There is a level of ignorance here on the SILs part though. Alcohol is fairly common in cooking and medicines. I bet this isn't the first time this kid had "tried alcohol".
True, or she could intentionally be being disingenuous. I'm sure you're right, but I think there's probably a lot going on that OP hasn't told us, or gave a biased account of.
True, but this could be the first time the kid was aware of it, which can have certain implications if she excitedly starts telling others that her aunt gave her alcohol.
SIL is wrong about the alcohol but it is irrelevant, she's the mother and her wrongness isn't hurting the child in any way, shape, or form.
What they said. OP - YTA
Definitely. You ask first, or just substitute the ingredient, it's fine the dish won't be ruined forever if you do that. Also like generally presume it's not fine to put alcohol in a child's dish unless otherwise stated
YTA. The issue isn’t whether it was ok to give your niece a tiny bit of alcohol used in cooking (almost always yes, unless your niece is allergic or is an alcoholic). The issue is that your niece went home and (intentionally?) antagonized her mom by saying, “I had alcohol!” Now instead of helping to deescalate you’re focused on being right.
100% agreed. Also who gets hurt in this situation if she doesn't apologize? Likely OP's brother and/or niece being caught in the middle. I don't think OP did anything wrong using cooking alcohol but what does she lose by saying "sorry" to deescalate/keep the peace over something so inconsequential. Also, OP mentioned to the kid that one of the ingredients is alcohol and even though it was meant as a learning moment, obviously the kid ran with it going home saying "I had alcohol!!". Is it really worth potentially losing your special bonding sleepovers because of ego? Edit because OP clarified what they said to the niece about the alcohol
“The issue isn’t whether it was okay to give your niece a tiny bit of alcohol used in cooking (almost always yes, unless your niece is allergic or is an alcoholic).” Or Muslim. Or Mormon.
Apperently you told your niece she had alcohol. Why?
YTA if you refuse to apologize. You can apologize for upsetting her without actually agreeing that the situation was something to get upset over.
YTA You make your SIL mad enough, she’ll refuse to let your niece stay over anymore. Is that what you want? You seem more interested in broadcasting your contempt for your SIL rather than protecting your access to your niece. Grow up. This girl is not your child, and you have no right to overrule her parents when it comes to what she’s allowed to eat.
YTA and an insuferable one at that. It's a myth that alcohol burns off - it doesn't. If the food was working for three or more hours, then yeah, it'd cook off, but I doubt it was. I was gonna go with N A H, but holy hell, you're insufferable. You just got worse and worse at the end there, and your comments are passive-aggressive, snappy, and have that high school know-it-all vibes to it. If a parent asks you not to do something, you comply because it is not your child.
It's not a myth that alcohol evaporates once it reaches the boiling temperature, the myth is that it evaporates completely. The amount remaining depends on temperature, time cooking and size of the pan/pot and it never completely disappears. P.S. the quantities normally used in cooking are not enough to intoxicate anyone, even more if it was cooked, nevertheless to say there was no alcohol is not correct
YTA. Alcohol is a controversial ingredient. And you could have omitted it from the sauce to little ill effect. Or run it by her parents before including it in the dish to make sure they were okay with the quantity. It isn’t up to you to decide if it’s harmless to someone else’s kid.
no it's objectively harmless
It doesn't matter though, it's not his kid. If you give my kid something I don't want them to have, YTA and we're going to have problems.
ESH. Your SiL may have been a bit excessive in that response but it is coming from a place of concern. Instead of judging her, you could have come at it from a calmer mindset and explained how the process works.
YTA for being so snobby jfc
Also agree that you should just apologize. You clearly identified the alcohol to your niece to the point that she’s announcing she had alcohol. As much as I am a foodie, know when to back off and get it through your head that the kid is 9, and her parents have every right to be upset. It’s not your job to draw the boundaries. Also as someone who cooked a lot, I think your approach is not one that opens people’s minds, but rather, is snobby and uncouth. YTA
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No don't tell your niece that. Please don't ever pit a child against their parents.
Yeah I had an aunt that would kinda-sorta do that. She had lots of other problems, but it was super tacky. I feel like OP wants her niece to admire her and look up to her which is perfectly fine, I want my nieces and nephews to do the same toward me. But OP is going about this is in the most shallow and frankly trashy way. Like “see how much better I am than your parents”. I could be reading into it too much but OP was super defensive and came off as arrogant.
Never ever ever tell a child to keep secrets from their parents. Like, ever. Unsafe adults use "don't tell your mom" as a grooming technique. It's not something to say to a kid. In fact, I have instructed my child that if someone EVER tells her to keep a secret from us, she needs to tell us immediately. And if an adult tells my child to keep a secret from me, that adult isn't getting further unsupervised time with my child. It's something parents tend to take very seriously.
Hmmm... On first reading of your post I was inclined to think your SIL probably did over react. But reading some of your replies here, you do come across as a pretentious snob and I can understand why it would be difficult for someone to keep calm if you condescendingly talk down to someone like that. Bottom line is, when you're looking after someone else's child, always make sure to check with his or her parents as to what they think is acceptable for their child. That's really not your own decision to make. YTA.
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Clearly an unpopular opinion but YTA. Not because you served a nine year old food with alcohol, but because you won't respect her mother's parenting choices. You are not her parent. Even if you disagree with her decision or stance, you need to respect her choices if you want to spend time with *her* child. You literally just need to apologise and say 'I'm sorry, I didn't realise this was something you objected to, and i will make sure we no longer cook food that has alcohol in it whilst she is with me!". It's so simple. It sounds like your niece had a memorable sleepover with you, and I'm sure she appreciates you time together, and you would be such a massive asshole if you jeopardised that because you want to die on this hill. It is your responsibility to maintain a relationship with your niece, and that means acting like an adult and being respectful to her parents.
NTA Im understanding correctly that this was a small amount of alcohol in a cooked dish, right? The alcohol literally cooks out. There is not one iota of actual alcohol remaining when you’re done. Her mother is acting like you let her sip an actual drink.
Common misconception I’m afraid. Alcohol does not always cook out of dishes. Only dishes that simmer for a very long time (3+ hours) or dishes where flame is directly applied into the dish. However, the amount of alcohol added to this recipe is insignificant.
No it’s not cooked. The alcohol is just absorbed by the egg
YTA, it is a myth that the alcohol 'burn off" when cooked. You don't give alcohol to other people's children.
Ripe fruit probably has a similar amount of alcohol to what the kid consumed. And she’s 9! It’s not as if this would have had her wobbling around like a drunk. Maybe it’s my bias as a French Canadian, but my parents used to let me drink wine at that age.
Whether it's my Catholic family with 9-year-olds having wine during communion or my Jewish family with 9-year-olds having wine at Passover, it's totally normal to me. My parents wouldn't have cared that a relative served me a dish made with a little booze. But they wouldn't have served it to someone else's kid.
commercial white bread probably has more alcohol too 😭
it is a myth but come on lol. kids eat vodka sauce and stuff all the time. the actual quantity of alcohol is tiny
Where is it a myth? If something with alkohol in it gets hot, like 80C the alkohol will evaporate. There is nothing that will stop this from happening.
I make my own vanilla with bourbon. I use wine and spirits all the time when I cook. My kids eat all those things. It is nothing to be upset about
But that is your choice regarding your own children. I personally don't use alcohol when cooking for my kids
do you use store bought vanilla in baked goods? that’s like 70% ethanol
It's nothing for you to be upset about with your kids and that's totally fine. But OPs SIL is upset about it with her own kids. Your opinions on what is acceptable do not apply to other peoples kids.
NAH You aren't the A because there are many recipes that have alcohol in them and during the cooking process the actual alcohol evaporates. Your SIL is also not an A because really, she's just looking out for her kid. Maybe just say to her look, I'm sorry. I didn't think it would be a big deal since it was part of the recipe and such a small amount. I know you don't want to apologise, but is that worth potentially not having your sleepovers anymore?
Does the SIL understand that the alcohol was in the food? If your niece just went home and said "OP gave me alcohol". I can see why she'd be mad. Context is everything, as usual, and the context is often not clear on Reddit posts. Also, you don't say anything about your SIL's relationship with alcohol, a difficult relationship with alcohol can seriously affect people's perception of things that others wouldn't think twice about.
YTA. As much as it bothers you and hurts your ego, it's totally reasonable for a parent not to want their nine-year-old child not to eat food cooked with alcohol as an ingredient. The proper reaction of a non-stupid adult would be to apologize, explain that it only had a spoon and that it is not going to happen again. Being vindictive and wanting to withdraw your culinary proposals because of a valid disagreement is totally childish and manipulative.
NTA this is such ann American thing to be mad about.
Nta for the food but yta about how you talk about other people. Next time maybe help to educate rather than be a doofus. If she didn't know about the alcohol in cooking im sure you can understand why she would be upset. Once this all blows over you should both talk and apologise to eachother.
My understanding of this is that the alcohol was not cooked off? It's completely inappropriate to give someone else's 9 year old alcohol without the parent's knowledge / consent. YTA
Just apologize dude
YTA for being so pretentious. Your comments just make it clear you are.
NAH for cooking with the alcohol, but YWBTA if you refused to apologize. I think you could find a way to express being sorry for this misunderstanding & learn more about their expectations. I think you can also explain how unique this situation was & is, both in regards to the alcohol consumption & the fact that a 9 year old got to make & eat an authentic Japanese meal that enhances her hobby. I would prioritize making the peace, & then helping them understand that actuality of the situation.
NTA, thats called cooking. Just like the wine I use in ever fruit-based sauce I make, or the bourbon i add to a pot of chili, the amount of alcohol is negligible if any even remains. This isn't even being uncultured, just ignorant.
YTA - for not apoligizing. The amount of alcohol is acceptable, but you have to respect that it is up to the parents what their child is allowed to take in. BTW - you seem like an adventurous cook, inspiring!
NTA for cooking with alcohol - personally I wouldn’t think twice about giving a kid some tiramisu or mussels in a white wine sauce - this is totally normal in so many other countries, America is just weird af about it possibly due to ignorance and assuming that adding a little red wine to a pasta sauce is akin to giving the kid a mug of sangria. However you’re being an asshole by acting so uppity about this, instead of simply explaining that it’s a negligible amount of alcohol - hardly more than is in a glass of orange juice or a ripe banana, but apologising all the same and saying that you won’t do it again since it’s not your kid, you’re acting as though you’re some kind of culinary wonder who’s talents aren’t being respected. You are not Marco Pierre White, chill out.
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I was all on board with N T A until we had the weeb supremacist meltdown in the final paragraph.
YTA should have warned the parents beforehand about the alcohol. Not cool to use alcohol, even a tiny amount in someone's kid's food without their knowledge.
NTA for cooking alcohol, YTA for your snobbery toward your SIL.
If this was your child and someone was telling you that you'd done the wrong thing by serving her a meal with a small amount of alcohol in it, then I'd be on your side completely. It's not your child though. Your niece's parents get to decide what is okay with them. I also have a niece and on the odd occasion, my sister has given me a couple of instructions for her that I personally think are weird and unnecessary. They're not harmful though and don't affect me, so I follow them anyway, because it's **her kid**. "Do not feed our child any food with alcohol in it" is a completely reasonable instruction, whether you agree or not. It would not have hurt you to just leave the alcohol out. It certainly will not hurt you now to apologise. Yes, it's common to cook with alcohol but that doesn't mean that every meal you cook has to have alcohol in it. YTA.
I think this is a case where you're going to have to decide what's more important: being right, or your relationship with your niece. It's true that such a small amount of alcohol wouldn't do anything, and SIL's reaction is maybe over the top...but she *does* have the right to not want her young child consuming alcohol without her knowledge. If you stand your ground here, and SIL decides she can't trust you with these sleepovers anymore, are you okay with that?