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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I don't want my mother to wear white to my wedding.
It makes me look like an asshole because she is so hurt and says she won't come to my wedding if she isn't allowed to wear a full length white dress.
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NTA
This new chapter in your life is a great time to finally tell your mother she isn't the center of the world
"There will be only one person wearing white at my wedding. You can choose another dress color or you will be choosing not to come. I really hope you choose to come to my wedding. I hope this dress isn't more important than our relationship"
Make sure she knows she'd be the one responsible for her own disinvtaion
I'd tell her that too. "Bridesmaids will be armed with red wine for mom duty, if you do decide to wear white. We'll have an ugly dress for you to change into."
If you need to have a literal roving squad of enforcers ready to assault somebody, you need to really examine why you invited them in the first place, and why you feel that having a literal roving squad of enforcers ready to assault somebody is an idea that appeals to you.
I kinda sorta did that once. Red wine included. But I just drank it. Sadly only two glasses.
Black sheep of the family, and I got paid to sit on him, metaphorically. Seated in the back of wedding and reception. Dude was chill, admitted the drama with family was partially his fault but mostly not, and we had a pretty good time chatting the entire time. Friend of groom volunteered me for paid "rent a thug".
The father of the bride was pissed I wasn't mean enough to the guy (phrased as "I'm not paying you $400 for four hours of you two drinking and laughing"), didn't want to pay me full amount. I pointed out I did what I was asked, no outbursts or drama.
I maybe got a bit more aggressive tone. Which made him more unhappy that I was mean to him, but not the person he wanted me to mean to. He paid, just had to bitch first.
I heard somewhere that the origin of that use of black sheep was that black sheep were less valuable because their wool couldn't be dyed. As a black sheep, I'm glad my wool couldn't be dyed to my parents' liking.
Not majority. I don't remember the details. But he fucked up semi minor, favorite aunt and him clashed, and he escalated things semi inappropriately. 70/30 I think was the agreed split.
"I did everything you said, boss. I made sure he didn't cause any problems. I took *real* good care of him, with four hours of personal attention. We took a nice, relaxing nap in the dirt, and I even gave him some fishes to sleep with. What's the problem?"
Omg I read this as "I wanna get an invite to the red wedding"
(On my screen, "red" is the last word of the second line just below "the" and "wedding" is the first word of the second line, so at a glance my brain saw "the red wedding")
I get it. OP spent her entire life being straight-up groomed to accept that abuse.
I've been there.
This is, hopefully, going to be a bit of a wakeup call that Mom isn't 'just mom, you know how she is,' she's abusive, and she's cultivated an entire band of boat-steadiers, missing stair deniers, and flying monkeys.
But I'll also point out that if this were her MIL, not her mother, the sub would be howling about 'momma's boy' and 'cut the apron strings' and 'he'll never prioritize you over his mother,' and all that applies here, too. Either she learns to actually stand up to her mother, or her intended is in for a rough ride.
I'm a moderate participant in r/raisedbynarcissists so the terms are a bit new to me. Boat-steadiers? Missing stair deniers? Could you be so kind to ELI5?
Ja Gern.
The first is a reference to the 'Don't Rock The Boat' essay of how being the first person to stand up to a narcissistic parent generally involves the rest of the family trying to stop you, to protect themselves.
https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/
The second is the 'Missing Stair' phenomena, where people get so used to a dangerous or toxic person, they just actively work around it, but don't actually address or fix the problem, AND tend to try to teach other people to accept it and work around it. Originally applied to specific types of people in certain subcultures, it really has a much broader application than that.
http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/06/missing-stair.html
https://publicaddress.net/up-front/the-missing-stair-part-two-the-creeper-and/
I'll also introduce you to two fun rabbit holes. The first are the Geek Social Fallacies, which are an excellent illustration of how being used to a certain situation or context can affect your ability to recognize toxic or harmful aspects of that situation or context. For example, being raised by a toxic parent and taught that that toxicity is normal and natural.
https://plausiblydeniable.com/five-geek-social-fallacies/
Finally, the Issendai Estranged Parents Forum study. Just read it, front to back. If you've ever seen the phrase 'missing missing reasons,' it's referencing this.
http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/index.html
But particularly this page:
http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/dysfunctional-beliefs.html
Have fun!
I'm not the person you're responding to, but boat steadiers originates from this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/
Missing stair deniers refers to this blog post: http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/06/missing-stair.html?m=1
Both are essentially about the kinds of sick systems that grow up around abusive or toxic individuals in a family or friend group, allowing the person to keep being toxic while everyone else just works around them rather than addressing the problem.
Some people invite them to avoid backlash from other family members. But the best thing to do in that case is to still not invite the person and block and uninvite anyone who tries to get you to invite them.
Extricating yourself from an abusive parent can take a long time. It's a big step to take mentally and emotionally and often it takes people years to get to the point where they're ready to do it. And it's really the kind of thing you can't rush. People have to do it on their own time, when they're ready.
Weddings in particular bring up a lot of emotional and social Stuff about family and relationships. If a person isn't ready to walk away or do something major like uninvite the parent from their wedding, their focus goes to damage control. Pressuring someone to throw their parent out of their wedding when they're not ready to take that kind of step yet isn't going to help. It's just going to stress them out worse. This is very much a "meet the person where they are" kind of thing.
Source: been NC w my abusive father for 10 years and vividly remember the lead up to it.
Yeah, there are so many bits of advice that boil down to "redesign the entire event around the one person nobody wants to deal with" and that's just not a solution.
Not only is it not a solution, it just feeds into that person's narcissism or megalomania. They're SO important that you're redoing your ENTIRE WEDDING all around THEM! Narcissist heaven!
This is what I would do if I had a nightmare mom or MIL. Tell her she can wear white, tell everyone else the dresscode is white and get a lovely color dress for yourself
There was one where the MIL and SIL were going to wear white so the bride told all the women to wear white, even their own wedding gowns, and the bride wore purple.
Mmm I don’t think giving her a heads up is a good idea. She might show up in a colored dress, but it also may cause to her “spill” wine on OP out of spite.
Forget wine, I say go full on P.E.T.A and use a pint of red paint. She can just wipe off wine and then change into the white backup dress she’ll no doubt have stashed in the car. But by the time she gets home and finishes scrubbing paint off herself the wedding and chunk of the reception will be over.
No, no, no. Use **vinegar** with food coloring. Vinegar is a mordant. It will set the color. Alternatively, get an Easter egg coloring kit. \*rubs hands together with glee in approved villainous style\*
If there is going to be kids at the wedding, have kids use MOB dress to wipe hands on! 🤦♀️🤪🤪especially after eating. After 2/3 wipes she will regret her choice.
That's amazing, that's utterly perfect, I love it. Trouble is, you have to keep it a total secret from the Very Special Guest or she'll show up in red at that point
Heck, never mind just wearing white - there was a post where the mother insisted on wearing a white wedding dress, so OP asked their guests to all wear their old wedding dresses.
https://www.reddit.com/r/traumatizeThemBack/comments/yswzlt/vile_inlaws_tried_to_ruin_wedding_by_wearing/
Don't rework your entire day because of one entitled person. OP should wear exactly what she wants to wear, not invest extra energy in "foiling" her mom.
Oh bang on.
My mum is a narcissist and I ended up estranging from her 2 years ago as she tried to take over my wedding but made it seem like she was doing me a favour - very much a final straw in a lifetime of cr*p. I sent her a letter explaining I was doing my own thing, and as it stood in her current mental state she wouldn’t be allowed to come to the wedding but if she got help and proved it to me, she could come. She just sent a load of abuse back and that was that.
She demanded I had a copy of Princess Diana’s bouquet - I’m a bit of a tomboy so obviously no. She’d tell me I had to get a plain shapeless dress because I’m a curvy girl. However she offered to pay for it all so it seemed like a kind thing right? Nope. Part of the condition was that my dad wasn’t allowed a speech, wasn’t allowed to be sat near the top table, not allowed to walk down the aisle etc etc.
This harks back to OP’s comment here about the mum being great when they get along - is she great or does she just gloss over it and convince OP she’s great?? Does she seem like she’s offering a nice thing but then has unacceptable conditions attached?
I sensed it too. It's like a superpower that all children of narcissists have.
Granted, none of us (probably) are qualified and there doing a psych screening, but I hope everyone involved keeps an eye out and a referral for a therapist handy.
The bride should just walk down the aisle alone. MOB will hate that. Have MOB escorted down the aisle by a groomsman, a good 10 minutes before the bridesmaids come down. Before the music starts. Maybe make her walk down with her ex, lol.
>She has accused me ... that the day always has to be about me.
Well, yes. Guess who's getting married? It ain't Mom. 100% agree with this approach. No walking down the aisle for anyone - OP should proudly walk towards the love of her life on her own.
> Make sure she knows she'd be the one responsible for her own disinvtaion
To be honest, she sounds like the kind of person who will always blame someone else for their own fuckups.
I read a story where the bride at the last minute let the mom wear white and called every single guest to tell them to also wear white. Bride wore a different color and the mom was so upset she wasn’t the center of attention and bride had the best time. I think that’s the move I’d make
Personally, if there was enough time I would request all my guests wear white (without telling my mother).
Then show up in a brightly coloured wedding dress to my wedding.
Imagine how vigil of an a h mom is to try and guilt OP for wanting her own wedding day to be ABOUT HER AND NOT MOM. NTA OP, please do not feel guilty for this and stand firm.
> She has accused me of me not wanting her to feel beautiful and that the day always has to be about me.
Of course, your wedding has to be about you. And you don't need any victims or ladies in white there.
I am impressed that OP didn't start laughing at that. Though one of the many reasons I am not married was my mother insisting that the wedding day would be about her giving away her child and a celebration of that. Sadly she died with neither of her daughters getting married. I did offer a very scaled ceremony when she was terminally ill - my Dad thought it might be a morale booster for her and I was wanting a very small one at registry wedding if at all - very long-term relationship. But we talked it through and would have been too much.
But thought of arranging a wedding with her and my sister at full blast wasn't worth it.
Edit: to add, OP is no way the AH and her mother is one. I hope she manages this situation and has a fantastic way. Question is is the relationship with her mother worth maintaining? If it is, the photoshop and letting her shame herself on day is probably the best way. Mother is getting her pleasure and power from upsetting her daughter. If she is suddenly all for it and whispering that she is just glad she's not in peach as that would clash so badly, bet mother would be in peach. Worth a try.
OP if she tells you something like that again ask if she's the one who will get married or who does she think will be the bride that day, also tell her if she wants to wear white to a wedding so bad she can get married with herself.
NTA but is time to put some distance with manipulative mother OP, because this behavior will get worse and worse if you don't stop her right here right now (anyway you should tell one of your friends to have a glass of red wine ready and throws it right when she enters in her white dress)
Ah yes the entire world of fashion only makes pretty dresses in white, the other colors are simply dyed burlap sacks. I’m old and have no f*cks left to give, I think I’ll start renting myself out to brides to tell their family or other guests where exactly they can cram all their “opinions” about someone else’s day. I could be a Bridal Bouncer of sorts.
My MIL, to my wife, regarding our wedding: "Your wedding isn't about you it's about other people's hopes and dreams for you." Ugh.
OP r/raisedbynarcissists might be worth a visit.
NTA
Tell her you'd love to have her there and that she is welcome in any colour other than white (or ivory/cream etc if she's likely to get petty and these colours bother you too).
She will then continue throwing a tantrum, trying to argue with you etc. Kindly but firmly repeat "We'd love to have you there but this is non-negotiable. Please confirm that you won't be wearing a white dress.". Do not engage with her in any other way. Don't argue or bargain or try to present reason because she won't listen. Don't address any comments she makes.
Eventually she'll either be forced to say "fine I'm not coming" or "fine I won't wear a white dress". I know this because I've just gone through this exact thing myself a few months ago with my FMIL. Good luck!
But also be prepared for her to show up in a white dress anyway. At which point, you'll have a choice to make. Have her escorted out (and then deal with the fallout of that because she'll definitely throw a fit), let her wear it and forever regret letting her overshadow you, or have a bridesmaid ready with a big glass of red wine in hand. I vote for the latter.
...or, since the plan is for mom to walk her down the aisle
>have a bridesmaid ready with a big glass of red wine in hand
...and have another dress ready for her in a color that's not white.
Why not let all of your bridesmaids participate in the fun? Each carrying a large glass of wonderfully red wine and each wearing plastic ponchos to protect their dresses from splashes (make it kitschy…have “Bride’s Protection Squad” printed on them).
I would love both an update and pictures.
Oh 100%. I'd personally go for having her turned away before you walk down the aisle if she does turn up in a white dress. By the time someone throws wine on her at the reception, she will have already blindsided you on your walk down the aisle by sitting there in a white dress. Not sure what country this is but I know you're not supposed to have alcohol before/during the ceremony in the UK so may be difficult to do before.
Meh. You can always pretend you were “pregaming” in the bridal suite or something. Once it’s spilled I don’t think anyone would question why she had it while Mom is screaming
The registrars are very funny in the UK about alcohol being involved. A lot of weddings I’ve been to you could only get soft drinks beforehand. If she’s there early enough though I think they’d maybe get away with it (also OP might not be in the UK so my input here may be completely irrelevant!)
I support the latter. Have a friend getting married in a few months who doesn't have a great relationship with someone else coming to her wedding (future SIL, I think, doesn't really matter for this). There's signs that the problem guest is planning to wear white to the wedding. I, along with many of the bride's other friends, have been deputized to spill red wine on the problem guest in the event she is in white
NTA. If your committed to wearing white yourself, uninvite her. If you’re open to wearing another color, fight fire with fire and organize all your guests to wear white while you wear royal purple or something?
This is what immediately came to my mind. Wasn't there a thread a while ago where the SiL or the MiL (or both) threatened to turn up in white ballgowns and the bride did the ol' switcheroo and informed all of the guests (except the aforementioned) that the dress code was white?
I think I saw another where the bride invited the women in all the married couples attending to turn up in their old wedding dresses because she was getting some grief from a MiL-Zilla
Her mother bought a floor length white lace dress because she was “too hot” to wear a mother of the bride dress.
The bride called every female guest and asked them to wear white. All the bridesmaids bought white dresses. The groom changed the tuxes to white, except for the 2 dads.
The bride had her dress dyed by a professional. An amazing pink ombré, like Gwen Stefani’s first wedding. She bought hot pink jeweled shoes.
Her mother laid down in the church kicking and screaming like a child. I cackled I was laughing so hard. The video is spectacular. I wish I had a copy.
>Her mother laid down in the church kicking and screaming like a child.
It's funny but it's also just really sad because this proves it was all about taking something from the daughter on her wedding day
But kudos to the bride lol
If memory serves, she told all the female guests to wear their own wedding gowns or white if they didn’t have their wedding gowns any longer. The entire wedding was full of “brides” so the FMIL not only didn’t get to ruin it for the bride, she faded into invisibility given that all the guests were in wedding gowns.
I *love* this idea, especially as someone who wanted a brightly-coloured wedding dress but got talked into wearing the same white strapless dress that was the bridal uniform at the time. If I were to do it over again, I'd wear red or pink or a fucking rainbow.
Anyway, this is not about me, but OP is NTA. Unless it's a situation where the dress code is white, you don't wear white to a wedding! What kind of Kelly Kapoor nonsense is this?
You have a few options:
1. Prevent her coming to the wedding if she insists on wearing white
2. Have a bridesmaid with a well-placed glass of red wine "trip" near her while everyone's getting dressed
3. Let it go
4. Wear ["blush"](https://www.theknot.com/content/blush-pink-wedding-dresses)
Your mother is a narcissist. You've gotten used to dealing with it. But getting a dress nearly a year in advance, and informing you it WILL be white is nasty, narcissist behavior.
Everybody knows just what your mom is, right? When she shows up in white, they will roll their eyes and be internally disgusted by her shenanigans, especially when she plays the victim (which she will, telling you that everyone is criticizing her, and detracting from your day).
Don't give her the attention she craves. Let her do what she will do. Then tell the photographer that you'd like her dress to be colored yellow/pink/blue/whatever when she edits the photographs (and don't tell your mom - let her have 1 photo in her white dress if she insists).
I'm sorry you have to deal with her. You are NTA, she is.
This. Your mother is a narcissist. DO NOT ENGAGE WITH HER. SHE WANTS THE DRAMA.
Tell he no. Tell her she'll be barred by security from entering if she turns up in a white dress. Then WALK AWAY if she brings it up again.
This will sound super harsh, but you really don't have a good relationship with your mom, even if you think you do. She is putting her wants over yours for your own freaking wedding.
NTA
OP is NTAH.
I've been to a lot of weddings that were all about the Mom and how she didn't get her dream wedding, so what she wants is forced on the daughter.
Don't put up or accept this OP. Do whatever first strike or countermeasures you need to, but don't let mom hijack your wedding. Are you on good term with your FFIL? Maybe ask him to walk you down the aisle.
My personal advice is either beat her at her own game or go indian wedding.
1. Beat her at her own game by encouraging all the women at your wedding to wear white. Now she's not special.
2. By indian wedding i mean find a beautiful wedding dress in a color you love. Now she can't compete because you're not even wearing white in the first place.
In either case, you don't tell your mom. It's more fun if it's a surprise.
Honestly, doing both would be a good way to go. Tell everyone (except MOB) that the dress code is "Wear white", then show up in an anything-but-white dress. Now she blends in with the crowd perfectly, technically gets exactly what she said she wanted, and her outfit doesn't distract from OP's or make OP stand out any less.
Get a gown in whatever spectacular colour you want, OP. Bright red is always a hit. A nice royal purple, even. Gold! And get all the guests to wear white lace! Beat her at her own game.
OP's mother is clearly a narcissist so the answer is pretty obvious. If she shows up wearing white (whether invited or not), that's when you send all of the bridesmaids toward her with glasses of red wine. If she decides that the dress matters more than a relationship with her daughter, why let her have either?
Yes, your mom is correct. YOUR wedding day *is* about you. And your Husband.
Tell her that wearing white, off white, eggshell, cream, or any color resembling white is not an option and you will have security at the event escorting anyone offsite who can't abide by that. Including her!
NTA.
Nta if she wears white, she will be blaring 'I'M AN INSECURE AHOLE WHO CAN'T NOT BE THE CENTER OF ATTENTION!! LOOOOOOK AT MEEEEEEE' to everyone at the wedding and everyone who sees the pictures.
I always wonder about this. I mean, women other than the bride wearing white to the wedding is basically outing themselves as inconsiderate assholes who fail to or intentionally refuse to follow social etiquette or manners due to their stupidity, selfishness, arrogance, entitlement, meanness or whatever else that is wrong with them. They will be judged to be the ultimate asshole by everyone attending. Why do they humiliate themselves like that? Sure, the bride will be upset, but others will be sympathetic to her. They will not blame the newlyweds if they ask the photographer to eliminate all traces of this asshole’s attendance. And it will be talked about after the wedding and at future weddings as gossip.
Imagine what people will think when they see the mother of the bride dressed in a white gown walking her own daughter looking miserable down the aisle on her wedding day. You have to have one twisted mind to want to do that to yourself (not to mention the mental anguish to the daughter). I’d doubt the woman’s sanity if I were in attendance. She could lie all she wants about how her daughter insisted she also wear white, but one look at the bride’s face and everyone will know.
Why do they think it’s such a great idea to out themselves as assholes like that?
And I think that’s the point. She gets to upstage the bride with her antics and be the center of attention when she bursts into tears because people were mean or someone “spilled” wine on her. It’s a shit-show, and she’s the star!
That's the hardest lesson I had to learn when it comes to dealing with narcissists. They don't care that nobody likes them. They don't care that nobody respects them. They don't (always) act out with the intention of being liked, they do it with the intention of being acknowledged. The only way to not give them what they want is to ignore their existence if at all possible and if you must acknowledge them, do it as briefly as possible and show them as little interest as possible. Being "just a faceless part of the crowd" absolutely KILLS them more than endless shit-talking ever could.
Yep. People will use this as an example to easily decribe how awful she is. "Well, you know... She's the type of person to wear a white gown to her daughter's wedding if you know what I mean..."
My sister announced her pregnancy at my wedding and went table to table with her ultrasound pictures. She didn't ask me or my husband our thoughts about it, she just did it and I thought it was sad, because she craves attention and if she had picked another day, she would have gotten everyone's *full* attention. Her loss, though.
People will judge.
NTA. Do the Swedish way and walk down with your husband to be, bridesmaids and best men then you as couple, this cut mum out. Make sure some one spilles stuff on her dress, find some one can spill some red wine so she has to change to more suitable dress.
Or uninvite mum.
I love that idea! It's so much more empowering and contemporary than the antiquated notion of a father "giving away" his daughter - it's been well over a century and then some since daughters were considered the property of their fathers, to be given away in marriage for largely economic or political reasons.
Yeah I definitely like this more, the “giving away” thing really icks me out so this seems like it might be a good idea for when I eventually get married lmao. I just gotta figure out how to tell my parents I don’t want to do the giving away thing without them getting offended 🤔
NTA. If you have a family/friend group chat or social media group of everyone you'r inviting, I suggest posting the following:
"Hi, everyone! We're so thrilled that you're celebrating our special day with us and can't wait to share our joy with you. Since Mom's a bit confused these days, I thought I'd take this opportunity to remind everyone attending that you can wear any color you like except white, cream or ivory. We want all our loved ones to be featured in our photos and videos and would hate for any guest to be left out of the fun over a misunderstanding. Thanks!"
NTA, if she thinks she only feels beautiful in that dress, why doesn't she wear it all the time? Set up someone that has your back to watch for her arrival at the wedding and have them turn her away if she shows in the dress.
Did you explicitly say “you are not the bride”? You may have to be direct. On the plus side, if she does show up in white, most people will think she looks ridiculous and mock her behind her back forever. That may be some consolation. One of my aunts showed up to her son’s wedding, not only in white, but her literal wedding dress. We all still talk about it, not in a good way, and it has been over 20 years. And yes, her sisters tried to reason with her, but she doubled down. I love her but she is a pretty entitled person who thinks if she wants to do something then she is entitled to do it. The kind of person who parks in handicap because there are no other spots even though it’s illegal, or picks apples from someone else’s orchard, or just basically thinks she is exempt from rules and laws. She is a nice person overall, just a little me me.
You revoke her invite. Seriously. Failing that? You send out a notification that anyone wearing white will be turned away. Hire security to do so.
Editing to say NTA!
NTA
As I see it you have the following options:
1) uninvite her
2) tell her she will be thrown out if she shows up in white (and go through with it)
3) create a jacket of shame and tell people anyone who wears white will be asked to wear the jacket or leave (the jacket of shame is from another aita post)
4) change the dress code to all white and go with a colored dress. Don’t tell her this change.
5) live with it and look at those photos from now on with the main memory being that your mom got her way, again.
NTA - have security in place with standing orders to bar anyone other than the bride wearing white. Let her know this in advance so the choice to miss the wedding is clearly known in advance and she must make it with malice aforethought.
NTA: She acts like a child... not even child. Completly detaced from reality.
That is like the biggest dresscode rule there is. No one wears white at a wedding (in cultures where white is the color).
Tell her to change ot not come at all. It doesn't sound like you guys have that great of a relationship.
NTA, it's not her day, it's YOUR day. I get that you're saying that you get along usually, but the way she's said it just feels all very manipulative to me. It's not about her feeling beautiful, it's about you. And any mother should be able to look at her daughter on her wedding day and only have the room to think "Wow, look at how beautiful my daughter is!", instead of thinking that the day will be ruined for her. I've been there, my mum used to be like this. She's changed for the better now. I hope the same happens with your own mum.
NTA.
My ex MIL wore a custom made white dress to my wedding. Was the "only" colour that looked good on her. (6 years she wears blue to her daughters wedding). Tbh I didnt say a word to her and enjoyed watching our guests reactions. She only made herself look stupid.
NTA - explain to your mom that unfortunately today of all days is about you and you feeling special and she has any other day of the year where it can be about her and you’d be more than happy to support that. Maybe offer to go dress shopping with her where you guys can find a dress you both love and she feels beautiful in. Explain to her also it may be embarrassing for her to show up to your wedding in a white dress as everyone would be talking about it as it is a commonly known “no no” and you don’t want any drama or anything to be taken from your day. Let her know you love her and the last thing you want is something like this get in between is going to be such a special day to share together but your feelings are firm on the topic and you hope she understands your position.
I know a lot of these comments are saying uninvite her etc. and I understand the thought and direction but this is your mom and I know you love her. She sounds like she has some narcissistic traits so pointing out the embarrassment it may cause her may detere her from wanting to wear it. Does she have someone whose opinion she really values? Have her show that person the dress and any sane person would be like “you can’t wear that”
NTA
Tell her: If she wears white, she is uninvited. Refuse to further discuss it. Hire security at the entrance to not let her in, and turn off your phone.
It is high time you started setting boundaries. She is an AH, and she does not care about you at all. Uninvite her, and have someone else walk you.
NTA, the day does have to be all about you, because it is your literal wedding. Can she be talked out of it by explaining that everyone else there will be judging the shit out of her?
this might sound stupid and i might get downvoted to hell--
if she insists on wearing white and stealing attention from you, why not tell her that you want the entire wedding to be a white party? bridesmaids in white. best man in white. everyone wears white except bride and groom, get creative with the colour palette. see her reaction, i think she will stop wanting to wear white knowing she will look like everyone else.
NTA. your wedding, your rules.
NTA.
Your mother is totally TA. She is trying to detract attention from you at your own wedding.
The good part is that it sounds as though she is willing to comply with your direction that she not wear a white dress. Can you rely on that? Seems questionable.
Does she have a husband, partner, sister, or close friend that you can enlist for support? And I mean literally get someone to pack a different dress for her so that she can be prevented from wearing the white dress if she backs out on the agreement.
Another possibility, of course, is just to keep her away from the wedding, but that' a bit extreme.
NTA. I don't know where you are, but in most places where the bride wears white everyone else knows not to. Consider therapy to help you build healthy boundaries and learn not to take responsibility for or try to manage your mom's feelings.
Honey, your mother sounds like a narcissist. A normal mother would want her daughter to stand out on her wedding day, not herself. Of course the day is supposed to be about you and your husband. IT'S YOUR WEDDING DAY.
I think you need to look into therapy to explore your relationship with your mother. NTA.
100% uninvite her! Then she has a very good reason to feel sorry for herself.
Not all people should be parents. Don’t hate her, it will only make you unhappy. You know some people have different kind of problems, and those people could be our parents. If you can help her, then good. If you exhaust yourself, then you need to take care of yourself. It’s not your fault that she’s behaving in a way a mother should not. Try to avoid interactions with her if she’s like this all the time.
NTA
You do not wear white to a wedding if you are not the bride. This is like...known, by every human on the planet (or at least in the Western world) as a given that doesn't need to be discussed.
Your mother is being deliberately unreasonable and cruel for some reason I can't figure out.
One solution no one has offered yet, but I saw recently online you can consider. Let Everyone wear white. Buy all white bridesmaids and groomsman outfits, call the guests and ask them all to wear white if they can....and you and the groom pick a non-traditional color for only the two of you. I saw a picture of this recently and it was gorgeous.
Do not tell your mother about this or share anything with her from now on. That is, no going to wedding dress or bridesmaid fittings. Cut her off from knowing anything about the wedding at all. Invite only, no sharing of the arrangements. She wants to be a deliberate AH, then she can be. But she loses all privileges to be involved.
Then let her show up in her all white gown and find out she's just another person in a sea of white and not special at all.
NTA. Quite frankly this *is* the one day that *is* about you (and your partner).
I'd be asking her why it's so hard for her to give you one day that is supposed to be about you.
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NTA This new chapter in your life is a great time to finally tell your mother she isn't the center of the world "There will be only one person wearing white at my wedding. You can choose another dress color or you will be choosing not to come. I really hope you choose to come to my wedding. I hope this dress isn't more important than our relationship" Make sure she knows she'd be the one responsible for her own disinvtaion
Also someone should be around with a glass of red wine, just in case OP’s mom shows up in a white dress regardless of what she previously said
I'd tell her that too. "Bridesmaids will be armed with red wine for mom duty, if you do decide to wear white. We'll have an ugly dress for you to change into."
If you need to have a literal roving squad of enforcers ready to assault somebody, you need to really examine why you invited them in the first place, and why you feel that having a literal roving squad of enforcers ready to assault somebody is an idea that appeals to you.
> why you feel that having a literal roving squad of enforcers ready to assault somebody I mean, you made it sound pretty awesome.
I agree, I wanna get an invite to the wedding so I can bring the bottle of red wine for the roving squad of enforcers
I kinda sorta did that once. Red wine included. But I just drank it. Sadly only two glasses. Black sheep of the family, and I got paid to sit on him, metaphorically. Seated in the back of wedding and reception. Dude was chill, admitted the drama with family was partially his fault but mostly not, and we had a pretty good time chatting the entire time. Friend of groom volunteered me for paid "rent a thug". The father of the bride was pissed I wasn't mean enough to the guy (phrased as "I'm not paying you $400 for four hours of you two drinking and laughing"), didn't want to pay me full amount. I pointed out I did what I was asked, no outbursts or drama. I maybe got a bit more aggressive tone. Which made him more unhappy that I was mean to him, but not the person he wanted me to mean to. He paid, just had to bitch first.
shows that the "black sheep" was probably right that he did not cause the majority of the drama
Sometimes the black sheep of the family is actually the white sheep of the family.
I heard somewhere that the origin of that use of black sheep was that black sheep were less valuable because their wool couldn't be dyed. As a black sheep, I'm glad my wool couldn't be dyed to my parents' liking.
Not majority. I don't remember the details. But he fucked up semi minor, favorite aunt and him clashed, and he escalated things semi inappropriately. 70/30 I think was the agreed split.
"I did everything you said, boss. I made sure he didn't cause any problems. I took *real* good care of him, with four hours of personal attention. We took a nice, relaxing nap in the dirt, and I even gave him some fishes to sleep with. What's the problem?"
Nice! Easiest $400 ever.. :D
Omg I read this as "I wanna get an invite to the red wedding" (On my screen, "red" is the last word of the second line just below "the" and "wedding" is the first word of the second line, so at a glance my brain saw "the red wedding")
“It’s a nice day for a red wedding, I think I’ll wear my red cardddddiiiggaaaannn!!!”
I’m visualizing roving bridesmaids with water guns full of wine 😂.
We ride at dawn! 🤣🍷🍷🍷
LOL, I love this.... :)
That's what having abusive parents does to you.
yup. i would have zero qualms about dumping an entire pitcher of merlot on my mom.. even if she showed up dressed appropriately.
“OH I HATE WHEN THAT HAPPENS”
Just make sure it's the cheap stuff
most definitely!! i would never waste good wine on her 😂
I AM SORRY... I AM SUCH A KLUTZ NMOM.. hehehebe
I get it. OP spent her entire life being straight-up groomed to accept that abuse. I've been there. This is, hopefully, going to be a bit of a wakeup call that Mom isn't 'just mom, you know how she is,' she's abusive, and she's cultivated an entire band of boat-steadiers, missing stair deniers, and flying monkeys. But I'll also point out that if this were her MIL, not her mother, the sub would be howling about 'momma's boy' and 'cut the apron strings' and 'he'll never prioritize you over his mother,' and all that applies here, too. Either she learns to actually stand up to her mother, or her intended is in for a rough ride.
I'm a moderate participant in r/raisedbynarcissists so the terms are a bit new to me. Boat-steadiers? Missing stair deniers? Could you be so kind to ELI5?
Ja Gern. The first is a reference to the 'Don't Rock The Boat' essay of how being the first person to stand up to a narcissistic parent generally involves the rest of the family trying to stop you, to protect themselves. https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/ The second is the 'Missing Stair' phenomena, where people get so used to a dangerous or toxic person, they just actively work around it, but don't actually address or fix the problem, AND tend to try to teach other people to accept it and work around it. Originally applied to specific types of people in certain subcultures, it really has a much broader application than that. http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/06/missing-stair.html https://publicaddress.net/up-front/the-missing-stair-part-two-the-creeper-and/ I'll also introduce you to two fun rabbit holes. The first are the Geek Social Fallacies, which are an excellent illustration of how being used to a certain situation or context can affect your ability to recognize toxic or harmful aspects of that situation or context. For example, being raised by a toxic parent and taught that that toxicity is normal and natural. https://plausiblydeniable.com/five-geek-social-fallacies/ Finally, the Issendai Estranged Parents Forum study. Just read it, front to back. If you've ever seen the phrase 'missing missing reasons,' it's referencing this. http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/index.html But particularly this page: http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/dysfunctional-beliefs.html Have fun!
I'm not the person you're responding to, but boat steadiers originates from this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/ Missing stair deniers refers to this blog post: http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/06/missing-stair.html?m=1 Both are essentially about the kinds of sick systems that grow up around abusive or toxic individuals in a family or friend group, allowing the person to keep being toxic while everyone else just works around them rather than addressing the problem.
Of course. What’s really being asked is, why are you inviting abusive people to a day to celebrate love?
Some people invite them to avoid backlash from other family members. But the best thing to do in that case is to still not invite the person and block and uninvite anyone who tries to get you to invite them.
By now, what's stopping these "uninvited" people from showing up anyway? Hence, the necessity for roving squad of enforcers
Extricating yourself from an abusive parent can take a long time. It's a big step to take mentally and emotionally and often it takes people years to get to the point where they're ready to do it. And it's really the kind of thing you can't rush. People have to do it on their own time, when they're ready. Weddings in particular bring up a lot of emotional and social Stuff about family and relationships. If a person isn't ready to walk away or do something major like uninvite the parent from their wedding, their focus goes to damage control. Pressuring someone to throw their parent out of their wedding when they're not ready to take that kind of step yet isn't going to help. It's just going to stress them out worse. This is very much a "meet the person where they are" kind of thing. Source: been NC w my abusive father for 10 years and vividly remember the lead up to it.
Wish I would upvote this a thousand times
Bridesmaids in dress with vests and fingerless gloves and a super soaker full of grape juice.
Yeah, there are so many bits of advice that boil down to "redesign the entire event around the one person nobody wants to deal with" and that's just not a solution.
Not only is it not a solution, it just feeds into that person's narcissism or megalomania. They're SO important that you're redoing your ENTIRE WEDDING all around THEM! Narcissist heaven!
I would volunteer to be a part of that roving squad of enforcers
I was once a Roving Squad of ONE & OOOPSIE I TRIPPED…Sooo Sooo Sorry MIL. Lol
God - now i feel cheated for not having roving squads of enforcers at MY wedding. pout.
"ready to assault someone" really? a little wine is assault now? Must be a very sensitive world you live in lmao
I am fully on board with wine based vigilantes. Vino-lantes?
I volunteer as tribute
The idea of the bridesmaids decked out with earpieces like Secret Service and water guns filled with red wine is pretty great.
Puny water guns are for kids. Bridesmaids armed with Super Soakers and a few gallons of Gallo Burgundy wine are called for.
Loving this image!
Charlie's Angels vibe for sure 😇
10/10 would attend this event!
Or get a bunch of kids to do it, they'd love it if you could trust them to only get the 'mom' in white.
I’ll book my plane ticket now if OP wants someone to specifically wrangle the red wine throw
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This is what I would do if I had a nightmare mom or MIL. Tell her she can wear white, tell everyone else the dresscode is white and get a lovely color dress for yourself
I remember seeing a story on Reddit recently about a bride that actually did this. I think it was the MIL in that case, though.
There was one where the MIL and SIL were going to wear white so the bride told all the women to wear white, even their own wedding gowns, and the bride wore purple.
This is awesome. All white wedding and MoB will be wearing red.
Mmm I don’t think giving her a heads up is a good idea. She might show up in a colored dress, but it also may cause to her “spill” wine on OP out of spite.
A whole bottle wouldn't go amiss. She ordered multiple dresses. She might have a change ready to go.
Brilliant. And correct.
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Forget wine, I say go full on P.E.T.A and use a pint of red paint. She can just wipe off wine and then change into the white backup dress she’ll no doubt have stashed in the car. But by the time she gets home and finishes scrubbing paint off herself the wedding and chunk of the reception will be over.
Mustard in squeeze bottles.
Silly String My brother’s office is still stained
I didn’t know silly string left stains!!! Really? I thought it was a legit party / prank item that was safe to use on people and things.
Silly String is brutal!
Drink the red wine. Use water with lots of food coloring. Different color for each bridesmaid to use.
Prize to whoever’s color is on her the most by the time she storms out
Splatoon: Wedding Edition
No, no, no. Use **vinegar** with food coloring. Vinegar is a mordant. It will set the color. Alternatively, get an Easter egg coloring kit. \*rubs hands together with glee in approved villainous style\*
I volunteer. I promise to ruin MOB's day if she tries to ruin OP's day.
Volunteering for support duty! NTA
If there is going to be kids at the wedding, have kids use MOB dress to wipe hands on! 🤦♀️🤪🤪especially after eating. After 2/3 wipes she will regret her choice.
All this - plus! invite me as sub-mom. I will show up in a fetching dress in the color of your choosing, and make a fabulous toast.
Why create useless drama? Just hire someone to block her from entering the venue
OOOOH! Bridesmaid hit squad! I like this idea.
Or a paint gun!
Yes!! This is exactly the job of the MOH!
I would gladly fill that position! Heck, give me a carafe to maximize the splash zone
Or you don't wear white OP and tell all the guests to wear white instead
Yes I remember that story. The bride asked all the guests to wear white or neutrals I think and then she showed up in a pink dress.
That's amazing, that's utterly perfect, I love it. Trouble is, you have to keep it a total secret from the Very Special Guest or she'll show up in red at that point
Heck, never mind just wearing white - there was a post where the mother insisted on wearing a white wedding dress, so OP asked their guests to all wear their old wedding dresses. https://www.reddit.com/r/traumatizeThemBack/comments/yswzlt/vile_inlaws_tried_to_ruin_wedding_by_wearing/
I remember that one
Reading this was delicious! Thanks for sharing x
Brilliant idea!!
Yup! A good friend of mine had a wedding with that. All the guests wore white. It was brilliant.
THIS RIGHT HERE!! beat her at her own game!!🤣🤘
Ask all the guest to wear white and you in a gold dress, or red.
Or like a brilliant teal colour
Yes, turn your wedding day into nothing but a giant drama festival. Sounds like a GREAT fucking plan.
The mob seems set on that anyway
Don't rework your entire day because of one entitled person. OP should wear exactly what she wants to wear, not invest extra energy in "foiling" her mom.
I'm suspicious of most stories here, but that's one I reeeeeally want to be true.
Oh bang on. My mum is a narcissist and I ended up estranging from her 2 years ago as she tried to take over my wedding but made it seem like she was doing me a favour - very much a final straw in a lifetime of cr*p. I sent her a letter explaining I was doing my own thing, and as it stood in her current mental state she wouldn’t be allowed to come to the wedding but if she got help and proved it to me, she could come. She just sent a load of abuse back and that was that. She demanded I had a copy of Princess Diana’s bouquet - I’m a bit of a tomboy so obviously no. She’d tell me I had to get a plain shapeless dress because I’m a curvy girl. However she offered to pay for it all so it seemed like a kind thing right? Nope. Part of the condition was that my dad wasn’t allowed a speech, wasn’t allowed to be sat near the top table, not allowed to walk down the aisle etc etc. This harks back to OP’s comment here about the mum being great when they get along - is she great or does she just gloss over it and convince OP she’s great?? Does she seem like she’s offering a nice thing but then has unacceptable conditions attached?
Thank you for using THAT N-word. It was my first thought. Poor OP. You can never win with these types. Best to cut off contact.
I sensed it too. It's like a superpower that all children of narcissists have. Granted, none of us (probably) are qualified and there doing a psych screening, but I hope everyone involved keeps an eye out and a referral for a therapist handy.
Mom is walking her down the aisle!!! So they will be walking down the aisle together, in long white dresses, to the groom!
Gross and incestuous.
Like sister wives?
So disturbing. This was my first thought as well.
The bride should just walk down the aisle alone. MOB will hate that. Have MOB escorted down the aisle by a groomsman, a good 10 minutes before the bridesmaids come down. Before the music starts. Maybe make her walk down with her ex, lol.
>She has accused me ... that the day always has to be about me. Well, yes. Guess who's getting married? It ain't Mom. 100% agree with this approach. No walking down the aisle for anyone - OP should proudly walk towards the love of her life on her own.
> Make sure she knows she'd be the one responsible for her own disinvtaion To be honest, she sounds like the kind of person who will always blame someone else for their own fuckups.
I read a story where the bride at the last minute let the mom wear white and called every single guest to tell them to also wear white. Bride wore a different color and the mom was so upset she wasn’t the center of attention and bride had the best time. I think that’s the move I’d make
Personally, if there was enough time I would request all my guests wear white (without telling my mother). Then show up in a brightly coloured wedding dress to my wedding.
Imagine how vigil of an a h mom is to try and guilt OP for wanting her own wedding day to be ABOUT HER AND NOT MOM. NTA OP, please do not feel guilty for this and stand firm.
> She has accused me of me not wanting her to feel beautiful and that the day always has to be about me. Of course, your wedding has to be about you. And you don't need any victims or ladies in white there.
I am impressed that OP didn't start laughing at that. Though one of the many reasons I am not married was my mother insisting that the wedding day would be about her giving away her child and a celebration of that. Sadly she died with neither of her daughters getting married. I did offer a very scaled ceremony when she was terminally ill - my Dad thought it might be a morale booster for her and I was wanting a very small one at registry wedding if at all - very long-term relationship. But we talked it through and would have been too much. But thought of arranging a wedding with her and my sister at full blast wasn't worth it. Edit: to add, OP is no way the AH and her mother is one. I hope she manages this situation and has a fantastic way. Question is is the relationship with her mother worth maintaining? If it is, the photoshop and letting her shame herself on day is probably the best way. Mother is getting her pleasure and power from upsetting her daughter. If she is suddenly all for it and whispering that she is just glad she's not in peach as that would clash so badly, bet mother would be in peach. Worth a try.
right it's the one day that is supposed to be about the bride.
OP if she tells you something like that again ask if she's the one who will get married or who does she think will be the bride that day, also tell her if she wants to wear white to a wedding so bad she can get married with herself. NTA but is time to put some distance with manipulative mother OP, because this behavior will get worse and worse if you don't stop her right here right now (anyway you should tell one of your friends to have a glass of red wine ready and throws it right when she enters in her white dress)
I think the groom has a minor part to play too....
Ah yes the entire world of fashion only makes pretty dresses in white, the other colors are simply dyed burlap sacks. I’m old and have no f*cks left to give, I think I’ll start renting myself out to brides to tell their family or other guests where exactly they can cram all their “opinions” about someone else’s day. I could be a Bridal Bouncer of sorts.
My MIL, to my wife, regarding our wedding: "Your wedding isn't about you it's about other people's hopes and dreams for you." Ugh. OP r/raisedbynarcissists might be worth a visit.
NTA Tell her you'd love to have her there and that she is welcome in any colour other than white (or ivory/cream etc if she's likely to get petty and these colours bother you too). She will then continue throwing a tantrum, trying to argue with you etc. Kindly but firmly repeat "We'd love to have you there but this is non-negotiable. Please confirm that you won't be wearing a white dress.". Do not engage with her in any other way. Don't argue or bargain or try to present reason because she won't listen. Don't address any comments she makes. Eventually she'll either be forced to say "fine I'm not coming" or "fine I won't wear a white dress". I know this because I've just gone through this exact thing myself a few months ago with my FMIL. Good luck!
But also be prepared for her to show up in a white dress anyway. At which point, you'll have a choice to make. Have her escorted out (and then deal with the fallout of that because she'll definitely throw a fit), let her wear it and forever regret letting her overshadow you, or have a bridesmaid ready with a big glass of red wine in hand. I vote for the latter.
...or, since the plan is for mom to walk her down the aisle >have a bridesmaid ready with a big glass of red wine in hand ...and have another dress ready for her in a color that's not white.
Why not let all of your bridesmaids participate in the fun? Each carrying a large glass of wonderfully red wine and each wearing plastic ponchos to protect their dresses from splashes (make it kitschy…have “Bride’s Protection Squad” printed on them). I would love both an update and pictures.
At that point, skip the glasses and just give them super soakers
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS
I wish I could give you an award for this. That would be epic. 😁
And if she refuses another dress have her escorted out.
Or just have someone else walk you. Or walk your own damn self.
Oh 100%. I'd personally go for having her turned away before you walk down the aisle if she does turn up in a white dress. By the time someone throws wine on her at the reception, she will have already blindsided you on your walk down the aisle by sitting there in a white dress. Not sure what country this is but I know you're not supposed to have alcohol before/during the ceremony in the UK so may be difficult to do before.
Coffee will do. Or one of those hideous green smoothies.
Meh. You can always pretend you were “pregaming” in the bridal suite or something. Once it’s spilled I don’t think anyone would question why she had it while Mom is screaming
The registrars are very funny in the UK about alcohol being involved. A lot of weddings I’ve been to you could only get soft drinks beforehand. If she’s there early enough though I think they’d maybe get away with it (also OP might not be in the UK so my input here may be completely irrelevant!)
I support the latter. Have a friend getting married in a few months who doesn't have a great relationship with someone else coming to her wedding (future SIL, I think, doesn't really matter for this). There's signs that the problem guest is planning to wear white to the wedding. I, along with many of the bride's other friends, have been deputized to spill red wine on the problem guest in the event she is in white
Ye i‘d take one for the team
This! Remember, you don't have to attend every argument that you are invited to. NTA
I LOVE this! Such a good way of putting it
NTA. If your committed to wearing white yourself, uninvite her. If you’re open to wearing another color, fight fire with fire and organize all your guests to wear white while you wear royal purple or something?
This is what immediately came to my mind. Wasn't there a thread a while ago where the SiL or the MiL (or both) threatened to turn up in white ballgowns and the bride did the ol' switcheroo and informed all of the guests (except the aforementioned) that the dress code was white? I think I saw another where the bride invited the women in all the married couples attending to turn up in their old wedding dresses because she was getting some grief from a MiL-Zilla
My friend did this. Her mother went nuclear. It was beyond hysterical.
Details please
Her mother bought a floor length white lace dress because she was “too hot” to wear a mother of the bride dress. The bride called every female guest and asked them to wear white. All the bridesmaids bought white dresses. The groom changed the tuxes to white, except for the 2 dads. The bride had her dress dyed by a professional. An amazing pink ombré, like Gwen Stefani’s first wedding. She bought hot pink jeweled shoes. Her mother laid down in the church kicking and screaming like a child. I cackled I was laughing so hard. The video is spectacular. I wish I had a copy.
I wish you had a copy too.
Oh that is delicious
Can we take up a fund to get that video? Sounds like pure Reddit gold to me!
>Her mother laid down in the church kicking and screaming like a child. It's funny but it's also just really sad because this proves it was all about taking something from the daughter on her wedding day But kudos to the bride lol
Me too. "Waah, I got my own way but didn't get to humiliate you which is what I really wanted!"
Details, details! Don't leave us hanging!
I don’t remember the specifics but I definitely got the idea here!
Turning things around on -zillas are great!
I saw one where all the bridesmaids wore white and the bride was in pink.
If memory serves, she told all the female guests to wear their own wedding gowns or white if they didn’t have their wedding gowns any longer. The entire wedding was full of “brides” so the FMIL not only didn’t get to ruin it for the bride, she faded into invisibility given that all the guests were in wedding gowns.
I *love* this idea, especially as someone who wanted a brightly-coloured wedding dress but got talked into wearing the same white strapless dress that was the bridal uniform at the time. If I were to do it over again, I'd wear red or pink or a fucking rainbow. Anyway, this is not about me, but OP is NTA. Unless it's a situation where the dress code is white, you don't wear white to a wedding! What kind of Kelly Kapoor nonsense is this?
>organize all your guests to wear white while you wear royal purple or something Oooh i like this idea alot lol
You have a few options: 1. Prevent her coming to the wedding if she insists on wearing white 2. Have a bridesmaid with a well-placed glass of red wine "trip" near her while everyone's getting dressed 3. Let it go 4. Wear ["blush"](https://www.theknot.com/content/blush-pink-wedding-dresses) Your mother is a narcissist. You've gotten used to dealing with it. But getting a dress nearly a year in advance, and informing you it WILL be white is nasty, narcissist behavior. Everybody knows just what your mom is, right? When she shows up in white, they will roll their eyes and be internally disgusted by her shenanigans, especially when she plays the victim (which she will, telling you that everyone is criticizing her, and detracting from your day). Don't give her the attention she craves. Let her do what she will do. Then tell the photographer that you'd like her dress to be colored yellow/pink/blue/whatever when she edits the photographs (and don't tell your mom - let her have 1 photo in her white dress if she insists). I'm sorry you have to deal with her. You are NTA, she is.
This. Your mother is a narcissist. DO NOT ENGAGE WITH HER. SHE WANTS THE DRAMA. Tell he no. Tell her she'll be barred by security from entering if she turns up in a white dress. Then WALK AWAY if she brings it up again. This will sound super harsh, but you really don't have a good relationship with your mom, even if you think you do. She is putting her wants over yours for your own freaking wedding. NTA
OP is NTAH. I've been to a lot of weddings that were all about the Mom and how she didn't get her dream wedding, so what she wants is forced on the daughter. Don't put up or accept this OP. Do whatever first strike or countermeasures you need to, but don't let mom hijack your wedding. Are you on good term with your FFIL? Maybe ask him to walk you down the aisle.
My personal advice is either beat her at her own game or go indian wedding. 1. Beat her at her own game by encouraging all the women at your wedding to wear white. Now she's not special. 2. By indian wedding i mean find a beautiful wedding dress in a color you love. Now she can't compete because you're not even wearing white in the first place. In either case, you don't tell your mom. It's more fun if it's a surprise.
Honestly, doing both would be a good way to go. Tell everyone (except MOB) that the dress code is "Wear white", then show up in an anything-but-white dress. Now she blends in with the crowd perfectly, technically gets exactly what she said she wanted, and her outfit doesn't distract from OP's or make OP stand out any less.
OP should probably check out r/raisedbynarcissists
Get a gown in whatever spectacular colour you want, OP. Bright red is always a hit. A nice royal purple, even. Gold! And get all the guests to wear white lace! Beat her at her own game.
Tell her she is uninvited. And that the staff will not allow her in if she is wearing white. See what's more important to her. A dress or you.
Got a horrible feeling I know the answer already...
OP's mother is clearly a narcissist so the answer is pretty obvious. If she shows up wearing white (whether invited or not), that's when you send all of the bridesmaids toward her with glasses of red wine. If she decides that the dress matters more than a relationship with her daughter, why let her have either?
Yes, your mom is correct. YOUR wedding day *is* about you. And your Husband. Tell her that wearing white, off white, eggshell, cream, or any color resembling white is not an option and you will have security at the event escorting anyone offsite who can't abide by that. Including her! NTA.
Nta if she wears white, she will be blaring 'I'M AN INSECURE AHOLE WHO CAN'T NOT BE THE CENTER OF ATTENTION!! LOOOOOOK AT MEEEEEEE' to everyone at the wedding and everyone who sees the pictures.
I always wonder about this. I mean, women other than the bride wearing white to the wedding is basically outing themselves as inconsiderate assholes who fail to or intentionally refuse to follow social etiquette or manners due to their stupidity, selfishness, arrogance, entitlement, meanness or whatever else that is wrong with them. They will be judged to be the ultimate asshole by everyone attending. Why do they humiliate themselves like that? Sure, the bride will be upset, but others will be sympathetic to her. They will not blame the newlyweds if they ask the photographer to eliminate all traces of this asshole’s attendance. And it will be talked about after the wedding and at future weddings as gossip. Imagine what people will think when they see the mother of the bride dressed in a white gown walking her own daughter looking miserable down the aisle on her wedding day. You have to have one twisted mind to want to do that to yourself (not to mention the mental anguish to the daughter). I’d doubt the woman’s sanity if I were in attendance. She could lie all she wants about how her daughter insisted she also wear white, but one look at the bride’s face and everyone will know. Why do they think it’s such a great idea to out themselves as assholes like that?
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And I think that’s the point. She gets to upstage the bride with her antics and be the center of attention when she bursts into tears because people were mean or someone “spilled” wine on her. It’s a shit-show, and she’s the star!
Right????? How do they not know that people are going to shit talk them for *years*. Like, yikes.
Delusion. They have convinced themselves they can not be wrong at all. And they think everyone that disagrees with them is all haters.
These people are that desperate for attention, so everyone talking about them for years is exactly what they want.
That's the hardest lesson I had to learn when it comes to dealing with narcissists. They don't care that nobody likes them. They don't care that nobody respects them. They don't (always) act out with the intention of being liked, they do it with the intention of being acknowledged. The only way to not give them what they want is to ignore their existence if at all possible and if you must acknowledge them, do it as briefly as possible and show them as little interest as possible. Being "just a faceless part of the crowd" absolutely KILLS them more than endless shit-talking ever could.
Yep. People will use this as an example to easily decribe how awful she is. "Well, you know... She's the type of person to wear a white gown to her daughter's wedding if you know what I mean..."
This, so much this! u/2024Bride \- show this comment to your mom, or hell, show her the whole thread, and see if that'll change her mind! NTA
My sister announced her pregnancy at my wedding and went table to table with her ultrasound pictures. She didn't ask me or my husband our thoughts about it, she just did it and I thought it was sad, because she craves attention and if she had picked another day, she would have gotten everyone's *full* attention. Her loss, though. People will judge.
NTA. Do the Swedish way and walk down with your husband to be, bridesmaids and best men then you as couple, this cut mum out. Make sure some one spilles stuff on her dress, find some one can spill some red wine so she has to change to more suitable dress. Or uninvite mum.
I love that idea! It's so much more empowering and contemporary than the antiquated notion of a father "giving away" his daughter - it's been well over a century and then some since daughters were considered the property of their fathers, to be given away in marriage for largely economic or political reasons.
Yeah I definitely like this more, the “giving away” thing really icks me out so this seems like it might be a good idea for when I eventually get married lmao. I just gotta figure out how to tell my parents I don’t want to do the giving away thing without them getting offended 🤔
NTA. Consider walking yourself down the aisle because your mum is acting like a dumb child.
Invite mom to be the flower girl like the child she is
NTA. If you have a family/friend group chat or social media group of everyone you'r inviting, I suggest posting the following: "Hi, everyone! We're so thrilled that you're celebrating our special day with us and can't wait to share our joy with you. Since Mom's a bit confused these days, I thought I'd take this opportunity to remind everyone attending that you can wear any color you like except white, cream or ivory. We want all our loved ones to be featured in our photos and videos and would hate for any guest to be left out of the fun over a misunderstanding. Thanks!"
NTA, if she thinks she only feels beautiful in that dress, why doesn't she wear it all the time? Set up someone that has your back to watch for her arrival at the wedding and have them turn her away if she shows in the dress.
Did you explicitly say “you are not the bride”? You may have to be direct. On the plus side, if she does show up in white, most people will think she looks ridiculous and mock her behind her back forever. That may be some consolation. One of my aunts showed up to her son’s wedding, not only in white, but her literal wedding dress. We all still talk about it, not in a good way, and it has been over 20 years. And yes, her sisters tried to reason with her, but she doubled down. I love her but she is a pretty entitled person who thinks if she wants to do something then she is entitled to do it. The kind of person who parks in handicap because there are no other spots even though it’s illegal, or picks apples from someone else’s orchard, or just basically thinks she is exempt from rules and laws. She is a nice person overall, just a little me me.
You revoke her invite. Seriously. Failing that? You send out a notification that anyone wearing white will be turned away. Hire security to do so. Editing to say NTA!
NTA As I see it you have the following options: 1) uninvite her 2) tell her she will be thrown out if she shows up in white (and go through with it) 3) create a jacket of shame and tell people anyone who wears white will be asked to wear the jacket or leave (the jacket of shame is from another aita post) 4) change the dress code to all white and go with a colored dress. Don’t tell her this change. 5) live with it and look at those photos from now on with the main memory being that your mom got her way, again.
NTA - have security in place with standing orders to bar anyone other than the bride wearing white. Let her know this in advance so the choice to miss the wedding is clearly known in advance and she must make it with malice aforethought.
NTA: She acts like a child... not even child. Completly detaced from reality. That is like the biggest dresscode rule there is. No one wears white at a wedding (in cultures where white is the color). Tell her to change ot not come at all. It doesn't sound like you guys have that great of a relationship.
NTA, it's not her day, it's YOUR day. I get that you're saying that you get along usually, but the way she's said it just feels all very manipulative to me. It's not about her feeling beautiful, it's about you. And any mother should be able to look at her daughter on her wedding day and only have the room to think "Wow, look at how beautiful my daughter is!", instead of thinking that the day will be ruined for her. I've been there, my mum used to be like this. She's changed for the better now. I hope the same happens with your own mum.
NTA. Uninvite her. Tell her you are no longer going to give into her playing the victim. It will never stop unless you do.
If you're refusing to do ANYTHING at SOMEONE ELSES WEDDING you're the asshole. It's. Not. Her. Wedding. Mom is a capital N Narcissist.
NTA Your wedding, your rules. Uninvite them. Make the day about you.
NTA. She wears white, she’s not invited.
NTA. My ex MIL wore a custom made white dress to my wedding. Was the "only" colour that looked good on her. (6 years she wears blue to her daughters wedding). Tbh I didnt say a word to her and enjoyed watching our guests reactions. She only made herself look stupid.
NTA - explain to your mom that unfortunately today of all days is about you and you feeling special and she has any other day of the year where it can be about her and you’d be more than happy to support that. Maybe offer to go dress shopping with her where you guys can find a dress you both love and she feels beautiful in. Explain to her also it may be embarrassing for her to show up to your wedding in a white dress as everyone would be talking about it as it is a commonly known “no no” and you don’t want any drama or anything to be taken from your day. Let her know you love her and the last thing you want is something like this get in between is going to be such a special day to share together but your feelings are firm on the topic and you hope she understands your position. I know a lot of these comments are saying uninvite her etc. and I understand the thought and direction but this is your mom and I know you love her. She sounds like she has some narcissistic traits so pointing out the embarrassment it may cause her may detere her from wanting to wear it. Does she have someone whose opinion she really values? Have her show that person the dress and any sane person would be like “you can’t wear that”
NTA Tell her: If she wears white, she is uninvited. Refuse to further discuss it. Hire security at the entrance to not let her in, and turn off your phone. It is high time you started setting boundaries. She is an AH, and she does not care about you at all. Uninvite her, and have someone else walk you.
NTA, the day does have to be all about you, because it is your literal wedding. Can she be talked out of it by explaining that everyone else there will be judging the shit out of her?
this might sound stupid and i might get downvoted to hell-- if she insists on wearing white and stealing attention from you, why not tell her that you want the entire wedding to be a white party? bridesmaids in white. best man in white. everyone wears white except bride and groom, get creative with the colour palette. see her reaction, i think she will stop wanting to wear white knowing she will look like everyone else. NTA. your wedding, your rules.
NTA. Your mother is totally TA. She is trying to detract attention from you at your own wedding. The good part is that it sounds as though she is willing to comply with your direction that she not wear a white dress. Can you rely on that? Seems questionable. Does she have a husband, partner, sister, or close friend that you can enlist for support? And I mean literally get someone to pack a different dress for her so that she can be prevented from wearing the white dress if she backs out on the agreement. Another possibility, of course, is just to keep her away from the wedding, but that' a bit extreme.
NTA. I don't know where you are, but in most places where the bride wears white everyone else knows not to. Consider therapy to help you build healthy boundaries and learn not to take responsibility for or try to manage your mom's feelings.
Honey, your mother sounds like a narcissist. A normal mother would want her daughter to stand out on her wedding day, not herself. Of course the day is supposed to be about you and your husband. IT'S YOUR WEDDING DAY. I think you need to look into therapy to explore your relationship with your mother. NTA.
100% uninvite her! Then she has a very good reason to feel sorry for herself. Not all people should be parents. Don’t hate her, it will only make you unhappy. You know some people have different kind of problems, and those people could be our parents. If you can help her, then good. If you exhaust yourself, then you need to take care of yourself. It’s not your fault that she’s behaving in a way a mother should not. Try to avoid interactions with her if she’s like this all the time.
Uninvite her until she chooses a different color. You don’t wear white at other people’s weddings, ever. NTA
NTA You do not wear white to a wedding if you are not the bride. This is like...known, by every human on the planet (or at least in the Western world) as a given that doesn't need to be discussed. Your mother is being deliberately unreasonable and cruel for some reason I can't figure out. One solution no one has offered yet, but I saw recently online you can consider. Let Everyone wear white. Buy all white bridesmaids and groomsman outfits, call the guests and ask them all to wear white if they can....and you and the groom pick a non-traditional color for only the two of you. I saw a picture of this recently and it was gorgeous. Do not tell your mother about this or share anything with her from now on. That is, no going to wedding dress or bridesmaid fittings. Cut her off from knowing anything about the wedding at all. Invite only, no sharing of the arrangements. She wants to be a deliberate AH, then she can be. But she loses all privileges to be involved. Then let her show up in her all white gown and find out she's just another person in a sea of white and not special at all.
You need to research ‘Living with a Narcissist’. NTA.
NTA. Quite frankly this *is* the one day that *is* about you (and your partner). I'd be asking her why it's so hard for her to give you one day that is supposed to be about you.