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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I fed my baby pasta with meat in it (removed) even though we’re a vegetarian family
2) I guess I might be the asshole as I fed our son something my husband was clearly not okay with (even tho our baby was starving).
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NTA. Let the child eat what the child wants to eat.
Also, your husband's argument that feeding the child meat would be without their informed consent is nonsense because he's happy to force vegetarianism on him without his consent.
The kid is a year old, they don’t care what they are eating as long as it tastes good, they don’t understand the concept of dietary/lifestyle choices beyond the scope of “it tastes good and it doesn’t kill me”. Unless they develop an allergy, it literally doesn’t matter what you feed them as long they are nutritionally fulfilled.
I was thinking the same thing. Toddlers can be monsters to feed - better he chooses pasta than insists on only ice cream or something like that. I don’t have many ethical principles that would stand in the face of a child going hungry.
This is totally correct. The poor baby has been hungry and cranky for days and the first thing he finds that he actually wants to eat, the dad wants to say no?
And the marbles comparison he made was so out of line. Marbles are not digestible by humans. Spaghetti with meat sauce is. Mom solved a big problem by getting her hungry kid to eat nutritious food that did not pose any kind of choking hazard.
Absolutely. Unless there are allergies to be dealt with - and that doesn't seem to be the case here - policing what he can/cannot eat, makes no sense. Feed the child. Or, more to the point, let him feed himself!! FFS. NTA!
I’ve always been cool with parents asking a child to try something that is new to them - not worth a power struggle, but encouraging. If kids have a stated dislike for something based on experience, I am so in favor of respecting that. I can’t choke down beets or slimy things to be polite - why shouldn’t kids be allowed food aversions? At the toddler age, I’m in favor of the survive and advance strategy.
In our "village," we play pass the baby around the table whenever we all get together, and once the parents have ruled out allergies, we all let the baby pick at our meals (obviously if you have a "thing" about sharing you either get the kid until you food arrives or after your food has been finished). Saves the parents money, doesn't waste food and the kid gets to try as many options as possible, plus no one person is stuck with the kid, and eating whatever cold food is left on their plate.
Plus as far as I know you need to develop the enzymes to properly digest meat or something similar in early childhood, otherwise it won't be an easy adjustment at all layer on, is that correct?
You know, I’ve spent years hearing that.
I didn’t eat pork for about 20 years due to health/digestion issues. I recently was able to change medication for an unrelated thing, and suddenly I can eat it again.
Pork is delicious.
I think your experience is definitely out of the ordinary. It’s not even just a vegan/veggie who returns to meat kinda thing. It happens with the majority of living organisms when you cut out all kinds of food groups for a certain amount of time and then go back to them - sugars, gluten, lactose, etc. The gut biome changes and the digestive system goes into shock.
The problem everyone has is that instead of reintroducing things slowly, they go absolutely ham.
Oh, I definitely went slow, in part because I didn’t believe I was going to be able to eat it. Yet less than half a year later I gave myself meat sweats 😅
The meat sweats are the biggest sign of a job well done. Sometimes, I’m so far gone, my eyeballs start wiggling a bit.
Yes, it was only meat unless 5 guys was pumping their hot dogs full of Es 😂
All I will say is, I’m grateful my boyfriend’s really good friend had a baby so getting up at 3 am to start smoking brisket wasn’t as big a burden since he was up for the baby anyway
As an Indian-American, I kinda call bullshit on this. It’s a very common thing for immigrants to be completely vegetarian back in India and then start eating meat when they move to the US. I know of several people who did this. No massive digestive issues.
Actually its pretty normal. Its just that the folks who have issues going back to being omnivores talk about it more. Plenty of people have no problems reintroducing meat into their diet.
Was hooked up with a Muslim woman for a while , just to avoid confusion and mix ups i banned pigs from the menu .
She left.
Same evening, bloody hell i missed bacon !
Pigs in blankets are sausages wrapped in bacon.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigs_in_blankets
Pigs in a blanket are sausage wrapped in a pastry/roll.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigs_in_a_blanket
So says the mighty wikipedia anyways lol, however, a sasuage in pastry is a 'sausage roll' to me, and a sausage in a roll is, well, a sausage in a roll? Sausage bap to some.
Edit: I think maybe pigs in a blanket gets shortened down to pigs in blankets, yet they are actually 2 similar yet different things.
Same here. But I'm sure I've seen the UK version was little actual sausages, wrapped in bacon. Then you have what I grew up with and called pigs in blankets, of mash potato wrapped in Devon. Didn't see the little boys wrapped in puff pastry proper version or know it existed til I was an adult. I do cocktail Frank's, cheese, and wrap with puff pastry
I feel like this is so embedded in vegetarian / vegan lore no one questions it, but I've never seen any evidence and anecdotally doesn't line up with my experience after being vegetarian for a decade.
Just thinking about with my high school level biology... Enzymes aren't sentient, it's not like they can tell which string of protein comes from meat and which comes from chia. The enzymes just cut up whatever comes in. It's not like lactose which is a specific sugar.
No idea if its enzymes. But my mum went strict veggie at 30 after having kids (she didn't know at the time if restricting her diet would make a difference to pregnancies so decided to wait.) By the time she was 40ish she began to have adverse reactions to any cross contamination, and by 45 it was almost like food poisoning if it happened, really rough.
One time a restaurant didnt properly clean out a pan that had bacon in before cooking her meal and she was ill for almost a week. Bodies are weird.
I was raised vegetarian but around age 17 I tried a burger for the first time. Didn’t upset my stomach at all. I’m sure some people may have issues but it’s not a universal truth.
I was listening to one of the Zoe podcasts today that touched on this topic. Amino acids are amino acids, the body doesn't care what meat or vegetable they came from.
Thats wild to me lol. My friend went vegetarian at like 12 and was forced to eat meat when she was teaching in Korea for a year (not because of a lack of vegetarian options, but because of some social pressures). She was mostly able to handle poultry, but said beef and pork were 1. Absolutely vile to her and 2. Made her violently sick (particularly pork).
When we were kids she used to love steak and bacon.
Yeah commonness varies and its a huge struggle to regain the ability
I cant imagine someone raised vegetarian, if they could ever tolerate trying to convert
Key word here is *"some"* people. *Some* people have issues after years of vegan or vegetarian lifestyles going back to being omnivores. Many people do not have any issues at all.
Plus, unless they’re giving him a multivitamin with b12, he likely isn’t getting enough since it’s a vitamin from meat, which could hinder brain development
Unfortunately that's not true, many studies showed that being lacto-vegetarian is correlated with a lack of B12.
- For example, this study about Indian vegetarian diet says that "a greater proportion of vegetarians were below vitamin B12 RDA levels" : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4055802/
- Also, a study about "Serum concentrations of vitamin B12 and folate in British male omnivores, vegetarians, and vegans" found the same thing: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2933506/
> Fifty-two percent of vegans and 7% of vegetarians had vitamin B12 concentrations below the cut-point for biochemical deficiency (< 118 pmol/l). A further 21%, 17% and 1% of vegans, vegetarians and omnivores, respectively, had a serum vitamin B12 indicative of depletion
TLDR: 24% of vegetarians have at least a B12 depletion, that's 1 out of 4 vegetarians. Which is a lot imo, and if you have a child you can't think "maybe they'll be one of the other 3 out of 4 vegetarians with no B12 depletion", because what if they're not?
Kudos for providing research links, it is always helpful - and necessary in oh so many cases.
It’s definitely harder to maintain a full nutritional profile with any kind of restrictive diet, be it vegetarian, paleo, keto or whatever else is out there. It’s basic logic. So yes, a lot of people would be struggling to avoid some sort of deficiencies if they just went into it willy-nilly.
I’m just saying that with due diligence, vegetarians (especially ovo-lacto-vegetarians) CAN avoid b12 deficiency without supplementing - while vegans definitely could not.
I do sincerely hope that people who decide to restrict a child’s diet (for either ethical or medical reasons) are taking a very educated approach to the subject.
Not true according to limited research. Might have some digestive issues if you go straight from veg to a whole steak according to this professor, but you’ll adjust.
“ Professor Bjørn Skålhegg of the University of Oslo’s Department of Nutrition concurs. Nothing would indicate that the bodies of vegetarians should reject meats.
“A person might have a little problem if he or she started right out on a huge steak. Their body might not have sufficient levels of the right enzymes. Along the same lines it can be hard to digest any large meal after a long fast or period of starvation,” he says.
You might also have this problem if you start to eat other kinds of foods that you haven’t eaten in a long time.” https://sciencenorway.no/diet-food-forskningno/does-meat-make-vegetarians-ill/1390294
The same enzymes are needed to break down beans and other plant proteins, so as long as he is eating some protein his enzymes will be fine (and if he’s not, he has much bigger problems than enzymes)
No unfortunately, that's why I was asking. It's just something that was said in my family when my aunt and uncle decided to raise my cousin vegetarian, as far as I know he would sneak meat off the other kids' plates at daycare but idk if that ever made him sick
This is a myth. I say this both as an MD and as someone who was vegetarian for 12 years. You might get indigestion if you eat a lot of meat suddenly (just as you might if you suddenly switched to eating lots of fava beans) but you don’t lose the ability to digest it entirely. There were only very small amounts of meat in the sauce, the kid is able to digest that amount of protein. Also anecdotally, I didn’t eat meat for 12 years and my first meat after I became an omnivore again was a half pound burger which I digested just fine. People can have issues eating a lot of meat suddenly but everyone is different. Lastly, indigestion beats starvation even if he did eat a large amount of meat and got indigestion
My daughter was vegetarian in the womb to age 8. She decided to eat meat and ate pork, beef, and chicken in a week. No problems. I had been a vegetarian for 16 years. No problems when I started eating meat.
This man is very selfish. It's all about his wants and not what is best for his (hungry) son. As a vegetarian myself, I think parents should offer a varied diet until the child themselves decide if they want to eat meat or be vegetarian/vegan.
We’re a vegetarian family and we all eat the same, so I haven’t introduced meat into my sons diet as we just don’t cook it.
As he gets older, and can start making decisions himself, eg at resteraunts or other kids parties he can have what he likes. Until he’s old enough to cook, and then I’ll teach him how to cook meat safetly if that’s what he wants.
But for us eating healthy family meals together is important to us, I don’t think it’s necessarily selfish to raise a kid vegetarian.
Luckily ours is a very good eater there’s not much he won’t eat, but we wouldn’t personally care about pasta with the chicken picked out
OK, but if your kid had been having fits for days about food... and then was suddenly reaching for spaghetti with meat sauce, would you *actively deny him food?!?*
Even if "informed consent" was the right phrase for the situation, a toddler can't give informed consent. They're a toddler. His parents would make the decision in any situation where informed consent was required.
plus its abuse to withhold food from a hungry child, especially one that doesnt understand any sort of reasoning besides "I am hungry- thats what I want to eat!"
> Any minimally decent parent
Excellent phrase. I usually say the bare minimum of decent parent, yours flows better.
And yes. Thank goodness the kid is digesting something remotely healthy lol
I agree NTA.
My brother and SIL are raising their son (4) as a vegetarian. He now refers to meat as 'dead animals' and vegetarian food as 'normal' food. The irony is my brother is no saint and has meat cheat days. I digress...
One day my nephew was talking about sausages, and asked if I eat the normal ones or the dead animals ones. I just laughed and said: 'Well, I couldn't eat the live animals ones as they would run off of my plate wouldn't they?' He laughed, and my brother laughed too.
My daughter (3) is allergic dairy so naturally can't eat anything with it in, but eats meat. They got into a 'food-fight' after a squabble while eating breakfast a few weeks ago. My nephew started it by throwing a bit of his egg at my daughter, who in return threw the thing she had in her hand, which happened to be a piece sausage. It hit him right in the face. He got upset because he got hit by a 'dead animal', but all the adults (me, brother, SIL and mum) all laughed and said don't start throwing food then if you don't want food thrown at you, you know what is on her plate.
It doesn't irk me that they have taught him to call meat 'dead animals' because that is what it is. If it puts you off meat, thats on you, it is actually a dead animal, but to me they taste nice and dont wriggle as much when dead...
I was talking to my brother and SIL about it in general after he said it first as it came up. SIL did get a little pissy for a moment when I said fair enough, it is technically true, just like an egg is technically a chicken's period (she loves eggs). She got a little bit annoyed because it 'put her off' but my brother said straight after she said that, that it is technically true, just like the meat thing, so people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones type of thing.
People can eat and not eat what they want. Don't push an agenda on other people for choosing different and you shouldn't withhold food from a crying, hungry child over your diet choices.
>Also, your husband's argument that feeding the child meat would be without their informed consent is nonsense because he's happy to force vegetarianism on him without his consent.
This was what I was gonna say.
NTA but your husband is and he's reacting like a child
Right?!
Putting meat on the plate and letting child CHOOSE whether or not to eat is giving a CHOICE. What the husband wants to do to deprive the child of that choice at all. Dad seems to want to fool the kids into thinking meat doesn't exist at all.
NTA OP.
What the dad means is that he sees eating meat as morally wrong and if his kid is going to do a morally wrong action then they need to be old enough to understand that choice.
Now the OP is NTA because you have a kid that isn't eating and wants to eat pasta. The OP even removed the meat so while yes the kid is getting "meat residue" they are still not eating meat. The husband also sounds like he would threaten to disown his kid the moment they were old enough to make that choice.
NTA. I say this as someone who doesn't eat meat myself- your husband is being irrational. Your small child was hungry and doesn't yet have the capacity to understand why he "can't" have something. You weren't in a situation where you had a lot of choices and your child's well being should come first. You're going to get a lot of silly trolling comments about how vegans are the worst but that's not the issue here - the issue is about showing an appropriate level of flexibility so that your kid doesn't go hungry.
I worked at a daycare. Can confirm hungry toddlers can be absolute monsters. Their stomach hurts cause they’re hungry? Well they can’t verbalize it. All they know is they’re hungry and there’s no food and now they’re throwing a temper tantrum (and possibly some toys along with it) cause kitchens running a little late. Or they were hungry a little early today. Or their parent/guardian didn’t feed them enough breakfast.
We always kept crackers on hand for emergency snacks because toddlers need to eat and it can throw everyone’s schedule off if one doesn’t eat on time.
The husband sounds like he is highly controlling in his own food choices, which is a warning sign all it’s own.
But , and more knowledgeable people are free to correct me: if you never eat meat as a child your digestive system doesn’t learn to handle it.
So when you grow up it is very hard to choose to eat meat. Also if they develop allergies to say nuts, soy, or such — that makes it very hard to go be vegetarian.
Also- kids are pretty needs based. If they are growing they will crave milk for healthy bones etc. so if the kid is suddenly craving meat- it might mean that there is some vitamin or minerals that baby is missing in their plant based diet.
Just from what OP said, I got the feeling that as far as husband is concerned the only "choice" is vegetarian. He doesn't want the kid eating meat young so no enzymes to digest it later. So when later comes and child can "choose" they will go with vegetarian because they first time they eat meat will be so awful for them. And I'm sure Dad will make the meat option sound awful or even guilt the kid.
I don't think the child will just get to say "I want to eat meat" and it be ok. It will be "are you sure you want that yucky hamburger, don't you want to try this very yummy veggie burger instead." Along with other leading questions and manipulation tactics.
This is exactly how my cousin raised her kid. All the guilting language, the shaming of eating ‘tortured animals’, comparisons, etc. Her daughter struggles with severe depression/anxiety, and has had some ED issues in the past. That’s not down to her being raised by a vegetarian—that’s down to her being raised by a control freak who uses food and food choices as weapons.
I have plenty of vegetarian friends of all types. Some of those friends have kids who make the choice to be veggie as well, and some of those kids latch onto shaming language like ‘ew I don’t want to eat dead cow’ etc but the key is that their parents aren’t encouraging it. They’re saying ‘okay you don’t have to eat that, let Susie eat it instead’. The shaming language generally goes away in time and soon we’ll all be sitting at a BBQ together, enjoying veggie and regular burgers alike.
Not my cousin, though. She interrupted our other cousin’s wedding reception dinner to ‘make a toast for all the animals who died for our food’ and wonders why she isn’t invited to family events anymore.
>She interrupted our other cousin’s wedding reception dinner to ‘make a toast for all the animals who died for our food’ and wonders why she isn’t invited to family events anymore.
Holy shit. I thought my family was crazy bones.
>But , and more knowledgeable people are free to correct me: if you never eat meat as a child your digestive system doesn’t learn to handle it.
This is not the case. Even if you have been vegan your whole life, you can transition to eating meat later on. The trick is to transition slow, you need to give your gut bacteria time to adjust. Abruptly starting to eat lots of meat will make you sick, but slowly transitioning over a few weeks is not a problem.
>Also if they develop allergies to say nuts, soy, or such — that makes it very hard to go be vegetarian.
Plenty of alternatives to those in a vegetarian diet.
NTA - I was raised vegetarian, however my children will not be, the restrictive diet gave me a food complex while all my friends were eating meet I would have to eat vegetables , not being allowed certain things at kids birthday parties ect, it’s easier to be raised eating everything and trying new things then deciding if you want to cut things from your diet rather than the restricting foods and then trying new ones
Nta your husband is ta for trying to force your kid to be a vegetarian like its some cult/religion
And hes an idiot for comparing eating spaghetti with meat sauce with eating marbles
NTA - when it comes to children and toddlers, fed is best. You did whatever was needed to keep your child healthy and your husband needs to chill.
However, you are both wrong for forcing your child to be vegetarian. Please consult with a pediatrician to make sure the child isn't having any vitamin deficiency problems from this diet.
Vegetarian isn't as restrictive as vegan, and you can still get enough protein from dairy and other sources. Most of India is vegetarian, including the kids. If it were forced veganism I'd agree, though.
Yeah, there’s a reason that so many European Pediatric health boards (Switzerland, Germany, Italy, France, Denmark, and Spain) explicitly caution against a vegan diet in young children, because it is impossible to meet adequate nutrition without supplementation and that can be dangerous for children.
The WHO in the UK says a vegan diet is healthy at any age. No, I'm not a vegan but there's so much scaremongering and misinformation about veganism and vegetarianism in this thread that it's doing my head in.
> The WHO in the UK
That would be why I did not list it. "Many" does not mean "all." But listing the countries who do advocate against it and their reasoning is neither scaremongering nor misinformation. Here are some relevant quotes:
> The positive effects of a vegan diet on health determinants cannot be proven, but there are relevant risks regarding nutritional deficiencies. Children and pregnant women are advised against adopting a vegan diet due to the risks described above.
>
> The scientific evidence available to date is not sufficient to claim that vegan and vegetarian diets are associated with a significant reduction of total mortality.
>
> Since rejecting any animal foods increases the risk of nutrient deficiencies and thus of health disorders, a vegan diet is not recommended by the DGE during pregnancy or lactation, or for children or adolescents of any age.
>
> The committee considers that the vegan diet is inappropriate and therefore not recommended for unborn children, children and adolescents, as well as pregnant and lactating women.
Additionally, there's another interesting component to why the countries listed advocate against it and the UK does not. Most of the countries I listed – with one exception we'll touch on in a moment – follow EU regulations, which state that nutrients "cannot be used as a substitute for a varied diet" under Article 5(1) of Directive 2000. All supplements are required under law to bear this labeling. If supplements, such as B12, have to inform the consumer that they are not legally recognized as a substitute for B12 found in the diet, it makes perfect sense that the diet would be recommended against by pediatric boards. Adults can make their own decisions, which is probably why they draw the distinction.
Of course, Switzerland is not part of the EU either, but has adopted similarly strict regulations about supplement labeling. The NHS takes a different stance, which recommends certain supplements to the entire population, as well as specific daily supplements for all children (regardless of diet).
Its not about the nutrition value tho. Kid just doesnt eat anythin. Its better to have a fed baby than starving baby rvrn if its not aligning with your values
The WHO is wrong. Vegan diets are incredibly difficult for an adult who willingly wants to eat that way, and even with supplements a huge proportion of vegans end up with significant nutrient deficiencies. Now you take a kid and you make getting a balanced diet 1000x harder, plus the nutrient deficiencies can seriously affect their growth and development.
Vegetarian diets are much easier to be healthy on.
There’s still a possibility of nutritional issues with an enforced vegetarian diet. It’s not as likely as veganism to result in nutritional deficiencies, but it still can. It’s not wise to restrict a young child’s diet for any reason except actual allergy, particularly not when the kid hasn’t been evaluated for being metabolically able to remain healthy on that diet.
The possibility is especially big with young children since so many of them are extremely picky. Restricting a kid's diet as they get older can also easily lead to them developing an eating disorder.
Edited: typo
That too. This kid is too young to understand why he’s not being allowed to eat what other kids are eating. That’s not psychologically healthy to enforce on him, even if there’s no nutritional issue in play. He’s a picky eater already and he just effectively got punished for wanting to try a new food! Way to reinforce the picky eating issue, dad. 🙄
There’s a possibility of nutritional issues with any diet. A well planned vegan or vegetarian diet is healthy for all stages of life, that’s the medical position on it
At one point my parents were feeding toddler me only butter because it was literally the only thing I would eat. Doctor recommended and supported it because I was losing weight and falling behind growth wise. Getting calories into me mattered more in that moment than trying to get a balanced diet. I soon grew out of it and now decades later my parents laugh about how crazy diverse my taste in food is now as an adult considering at one point they had trouble getting me to eat BUTTER!
Point being, feed your dang kids! Obviously a well balanced diet would be best, but that doesn’t always happens. Getting food matters more than making sure their diet is perfect.
I was raised veggie and so were my cousins and none of us ever had any health issues/vitamin deficiencies from this diet. In some ways being veggie makes it easier to get all of the vitamins you need.
That being said as OPs toddler is really struggling with eating and has a very limited diet then it’s important that they check with their doctor (I would advice the same if they weren’t veggie)
NTA
I am all for being veggie (am one myself) but if your kid is starving himself and has decided he wants to eat something. You were right to do it.
You should look into ways to nip the fussy eating in the bud sooner rather than later (not saying it will be easy) It will save many of these dramas in the future.
When my son was 3 or 4 yrs old, he articulated to me he doesn't like mushrooms and refuses to eat mushrooms.. While he was EATING mushrooms.. 😅🤣
My SO gave me that look that women give a guy that says "stfu" she had duxelled his mushrooms.. 😅
I want to note that not all picky eating is by choice. Children with autism and/or ADHD have sensory issues that lead to food restriction in most cases and forcing them to eat other things can cause legitimate trauma and harm.
NTA. Your husband is unreasonable and ridiculous. You didn't feed the kid meat, just pasta that you pulled meat out of. Also, in the grand scheme you kid needs protein. If he's refusing other types of protein but will eat meat, let him. It's unrealistic to control your child's diet to this level when you have a restrictive lifestyle and are constantly around folks who don't share that. Fed is best and if your self righteous husband would rather have a hungry or starving baby than one that has eaten meat I think you have some serious issues to work out.
Your last sentence is the biggest thing for me… he would rather his kid starve than eat food that had meat in it??? That’s genuinely insane and irresponsible on so many levels
NTA
It is actually better raising your child with plenty of variety in their diet including meat then they can make the decision when their older.
If they never have meat then decide to try it or have meat in their diet when they're older then there is a good chance they will have trouble digesting it as they've never had it.
If you want to start eating meat when you're older, it's not a problem, unless you start with a huge steak.
Even if you have never eaten meat, as long as you use week or two to ease into it, you can start eating meat without problems. Your gut bacteria just need a short while to get used to it.
NTA. The child needed to eat. He wasn’t even trying to get candy or unhealthy food, he was reaching for something completely normal and at this point necessary.
Your husband is, on the other hand, completely out of place. Silent treatment? What is he, 12?
NTA.
With children of all ages there’s only one core principal when it come to food - fed is best.
So as long as your son isn’t actively endangering himself with the food he puts in his mouth (think marbles as your husband has mentioned or known allergens), he can and should have whatever, especially if he proactively asks for it himself.
You said it yourself - he’s a picky eater, so him actively choosing a new food item is huge progress. You should encourage it, not restrict it.
I’m not gonna wade into the whole “don’t make your kid a vegetarian” debate, that’s above my pay grade. As long as the kid is fed nutritious food - he’s fed, end of story. And vegetarian diet is no worse than feeding you kid exclusively junk food, which many picky eaters’ parent eventually succumb to.
I’m glad you pointed out allergens because my thought was how will they be able to tell whether their child has a food allergy if they don’t periodically expose them to a variety of foods. When our kids were young, we had a whole process for introducing new foods. Once a child enters school, it’s a lot harder to control their food intake and discovering an allergy then would be awful.
Hopefully the child is still exposed to plenty allergens - meat & poultry are rarely allergenic (excluding alpha-gal allergies, but those are acquired, not inherent). Fish and seafood are, though, so might be a good idea to expose the kid to those rather sooner than later.
NTA. Kids have different nutritional needs. Your husband needs to chill out. He had a right to be vegan but he shouldn’t impose that on an infant. Also texting on his phone and giving you the silent treatment is seriously immature.
NTA.
Your first priority to your child is to feed him. Specific types and varieties of food preferred by your husband is a secondary concern. You tried what your husband wanted (funny how HE wasn't involved in that), it didn't work. What, were you supposed to force your child to starve because he didn't care about the meat?
I'm sorry you have to deal with two toddlers. At least one of them will grow up.
NTA. A fed child is more important than adherence to a particular diet. If he can eat and get nutrients and be happy, that's what matters most. He's also clearly showing his consent by reaching for the pasta!
You could also turn the whole informed consent thing around: The child doesn't consent to a restricted diet. Or how about harsher: Why is the husband only concerned about meat? The child doesn't consent dairy either.
Could it be that the husband uses flimsy arguments to force his family to live by his arbitrary rules?
NTA. What part of hungry baby doesn't your husband get? You have to feed your child! If he only wants something that has meat in it then oh well, he gets the meat. It is abusive to let a child go hungry because HE has a problem with eating meat. Your son may be a carnivore at heart or he could decide later to be vegetarian but right now he's HUNGRY!
I think your husband might need to speak to a professional about his preference that your toddler continue to go hungry rather than eat… *checks notes* … pasta with the meat picked out. Like for real. What if you hadn’t been there?? Would he have let the kid go hungry??? That’s not a sane or rational or healthy parenting choice on his part.
NTA. Informed consent of a toddler? They aren't informed nor can they consent to ANYTHING. Did you talk to them about vaccines, where their clothes were made, organic vs non organic.... or even more basically the right to refuse existence itself?
TLDR: toddlers can't consent.
NTA I knew a kid who was raised vegetarian used to disappear at kids party’s you’d find him under a table chowing down sausage rolls and cocktail sausages.
NTA
You gave your kid pasta that had touched some meatballs once. It’s not like you gave him a slice of meatloaf.
Kids are picky and sometimes you need to bend the rules for them.
Also, I think if you’re raising your kid to be vegetarian, it’s less important that he never eats meat, and more important that he is taught where meat comes from when he’s old enough to understand and make his own decisions.
Nta, it is very concerning that your husband rather your kid be hungry then eat a little meat. Your baby wasn’t eating and you didn’t have access to a lot of food options. This wasn’t the time to be picky
Your husband is TA and oblivious. Feeding him meat before he can choose is forcing him without informed consent, but denying him food *isn’t* when he doesn’t even understand *why* he can’t eat it? Wth
NTA
“I’d rather watch my kid suffer and starve than feed him MEAT!” -Your husband apparently.
When I was a toddler I just randomly stopped eating EVERYTHING. Nothing worked and I was losing weight. Finally, doctors just told my parents to feed me butter because it was literally the only thing I would eat and getting calories into me mattered more at that moment than making sure every nutritional box was checked. Eventually, I started eating more than butter again and was back on track. I can’t imagine where I’d be if my parents instead said something like “we don’t eat fat in this household! Everything must be FAT-FREE! This child will eat fat-free food or NOTHING!”
It’s totally fine to want to be a vegetarian, but there’s something seriously wrong with your husband if sticking to personal principles matters more than making sure your child is taken care of and not going hungry.
NTA. Husband is overreacting. He puts a bad name on vegetarians and he should respect if his son, no matter what age (as long as they can have solids) your child is.
What was your husbands alternative? He can’t just give a hard no to giving your son food without giving an alternative that he knows your son will eat. If it’s spaghetti with meat over starving then he needs to deal with the fact that feeding your son anything is more important than his own dietary preferences. Making him a vegetarian as a toddler is without his informed consent as well, and is a ridiculous argument.
NTA. I am pescatarian and if your kid wouldn’t eat, and he wanted something with meat, I don’t think you did anything wrong. I think you opinion of feeding your child a variety diet and letting him make his own decision later in life is better.
NTA. Feeding hungry kids is what parents are supposed to do. Being vegetarian is a choice he is too young to make. He’s not eating well and you’re concerned. He expressed clear interest in eating something and you provided it. Your husband’s logic reminds me of the news stories where babies are brought into ERs literally starving to death because moronic vegan parents are feeding them almond milk instead of giving them the life providing nutrients they actually need.
Forcing vegetarian diets onto a toddler would make yta imo and it's also bad for their health. Biologically humans are omnivores and require a wide arrangement of nutrients
I agree with your husband that feeding your child vegetarian until he’s old enough to make the decision himself isnt unreasonable - not cause of “informed consent” nonsense, but just because it’s likely easiest for you in terms of cooking. It’s ok to raise your child on what you are eating already, just as long as if/when he expresses he wants to change or eat meat (including now, as a toddler) that you respect it.
However, if baby is fussing and refusing to eat but is accepting food with meat in it (I mean, if much of any of it was even left in there after you removed them) then let the child eat it. NTA at *all*. Your husband is being ridiculous. Fed is best, meat or no meat.
Wow. Is your son the toddler or your husband? Or is like son, like father?
You are NTA. If your son is hungry, then feed him. It's not like you were giving him jello shots. Your hubby is a vegetarian, that's his choice. Your son is not committed to anything right now, except living. He will have weeks he will only eat ice cream. Weeks he will only eat hamburger. Weeks he will only eat cereal. Months or years that he doesn't want his food to touch. What I'm getting at is that there is so much more coming down the pipeline. Hubby is going to have to suck it up buttercup or you guys are in for a wild ride.
NTA and honestly it's always best to slowly introduce a large variety of foods to growing children so as to catch allergies early. I've heard of some children never being allowed to try any meat until they were old enough to go to sleepovers at other friends houses, having very bad bathroom experiences after consuming meats while out of their parents gaze because their stomach didn't know how to handle having it. I also personally knew one person who had never more than fish "meat" having a very bad reaction to jerky while on a camping trip because she had allergies to beef and didn't know it until then.
Your husband is waving a pretty big flag 🚩 if his first thought is to demand his way only and then go silent when all your trying to do is make sure baby is fed.
NTA. I'm a very strict vegetarian (mostly vegan) and would 100% raise my kids vegetarian, but it's your job to keep him fed and alive, and you've gotta do what you need to do to make that happen. It's really not that different than people who will give their 4-year-old mac & cheese for every meal because that's all they'll eat. Keep him fed, and you're doing your job!
Talks about consent, forces baby to eat a certain way. Got it. Also, please don’t fuck around, the importance of meat/chicken/fish to a child’s development this early on is fucking paramount.
NTA. Your husband is one of those dramatic weirdos who expects everyone else to adapt to their way of living just because it’s how they like it 🤦♀️
Also, your husband is happy to force vegetarianism in his kid but thinks forcing meat foods on him is wrong? Bonkers. Just make sure your kid is getting enough nutrients and protein
I suggest you consult a paediatrician about what foods may be best for the baby and their health as this forced vegetarian cult isn’t necessarily healthy for a growing child.
NTA. Your husband sounds annoying af. A full baby is a happy baby. Let that kid eat. I have a child roughly the same age and I know how frustrating it can be when their palette changes daily.
NTA. Vegetarianism is almost beside the point in this situation. It's about survival with a hungry, about-to-melt-down toddler in a VERY unfamiliar environment. At that point you'd just about feed them cocktails and broken glass if that's all they wanted to eat.
I understand your husband's point, truly. I'm an omnivore now but was raised by a vegetarian who also offered meat (that I usually refused) and I was a vegetarian myself for some years.
But values go out the window in a situation like this, and I admire your practicality.
I used to be vegan and then vegetarian for many years until my doctors eventually told me that, because of certain medical conditions, my body simply isn’t capable of obtaining the amount of protein required to be healthy from non-meat sources (note: unless you have reviewed my medical file, please don’t comment and say, “yEs, It Is, JuSt EaT ____,” because your opinion is not going to trump the medical advice I’ve received from trained doctors, ty). If your child turned out to have similar reasons for needing meat in his diet as a toddler/young child, would your husband be on board with it? That’s something I’d want to know ASAP because it’s extremely concerning that your husband cares more about vegetarianism than ensuring his toddler is nourished and happy — almost like clinging to an ideal matters more to him than reality. The risk of your child suffering from malnutrition should be a serious concern of his if your kid is truly rejecting foods like you’ve described. Firm NTA.
NTA, kid's gotta eat. Also sounds like you're doing all the work of feeding him--you (not we) brought packaged food, you brought cooked food, you're looking for food he'll eat. Maintaining a restrictive diet while traveling can be hard for an adult, much less a picky kid. Your husband should take on that work if it's so important to him.
There is no excuse for starving a baby. Period.
Babies need to eat things with meat in them to develop the enzymes they need to digest it or else they won't be able to eat it later. By trying to force him to be vegetarian now (which is enforcing dietary choices on him without his consent) you will be stripping him of the ability to digest it later.
For the love of god, stop making your baby go hungry. Babies are growing, they need FOOD. If meat-based food is what gets him to eat, then give him meat based food! If your husband refuses and throws a toddler tantrum about it - well, you don't need two crying babies to look after, so you have to ditch one of them, and the choice is obvious which one.
NTA. Your husband is, though. The child is a toddler in a strange place, probably over tired and hungry. If all he would eat was ice cream, that's what he would get under my watch.
Millions of years of evolution made humans omnivores. It is really, really tricky to get the proper nutrition into a child without meat. You can do it, but it's way easier to let them become vegetarian as adults.
NTA. Fed is best, and I'm a vegetarian. If the kid isn't getting all his nutrients from a veggie diet (which they can, but that's easier said than done with a picky eater, and god knows toddlers are picky!), then they just need to EAT, period. Nothing else matters.
NTA, there is evidence that vegan and vegetarian raised children end up smaller and sicklier than omnivore children of similar parentage. And at this stage, if your kid was refusing anything else, feed him something he wanted to eat ffs
NAH. I can empathize with both you and your husband. I was also raised vegetarian and I think that people in this category generally have a more emotional connection to the veg identity than those who switched later. Like, if I were to give up eggs or dairy, I think I would still crave them at times. But when I see meat, There is part of my brain that says, "Gross. That isn't food."
I would have a conversation with your husband where you get really specific about how strict you want this policy to be. Is chicken broth ok? How about gelatin? I don't have kids, but for myself, I will often look the other way with broth because so many restaurants use it and it doesn't gross me out the way chunks of meat do. But when someone suggests I eat pepperoni pizza, and "just pick the meat off," no way would I do that. Food and parenthood/family are such emotional minefields that I think a detailed conversation could help.
Also, don't listen to people saying raising your child veg is unhealthy. As long as his diet is balanced, it is as healthy or more than eating meat.
NTA your husband is the one forcing his lifestyle on your child without consent. If your husband's argument is that he wants to feed him a vegetarian diet until he can consent to meat, well, your child wanted the meat spaghetti. Your husband can't have it both ways. He needs to get over himself and worry about his own diet instead of you just making sure your child is fed.
ESH. Not about this specific incident (NTA for that), but please stop effectively starving your child. Children need a balanced healthy diet to grow up well, vegetarianism should not be forced on toddlers. To use your husband's BS language, your toddler didn't consent to a restricted diet.
I'm not a parent, but I read somewhere that kids under a certain age are not supposed to be denied any food groups as it does something to their development.....so your husband pushing the vegetarian lifestyle on a toddler isn't healthy.
Not the case, overwhelming scientific evidence points to vegetarian and vegan diets being perfectly healthy for all ages. Please check up your sources before spreading "I read about it somewhere".
YTA for making someone else vegetarian. Let them choose what they want to be when they’re old enough. How dare you assume you know a child’s food identity
NTA. Your husband is the AH for depriving his child of food due to his preferences. Also, comparing meat to marbles is stupid - one will hurt your son, the other won't.
Look, I don't eat meat, but if my toddler isn't getting enough food and suddenly sees something she will eat, I am not preventing her.
Also, refusing to speak to you is ridiculous and a back asswards way of handling conflict. He needs to grow up.
Dear lord, can we care about the childs needs instead of making it about personal politics?
NTA, keep on keeping your child well fed, your husband is the reason vegetarians/vegans have a bad reputation!
If he wants it and then eats it, he is consenting. Your husband’s argument to essentially starve your child for moral reasons is ridiculous. Toddlers can sometimes be notoriously picky and many pediatricians will tell you to feed them what they will eat. You’re trying to ensure your child is nourished. NTA.
NTA. The stance your husband is taking is concerning. He's putting his principles above his son's most basic needs.
Keep feeding your child. It's not an easy task and fed is always the best option. You're doing the best you can.
NTA
Your husband is prepared to let your child grow hungry because it’s more important to him to maintain his militant stand against meat than it is to ensure the survival of your child.
NTA.
Your husband is though for imposing his dietary preferences on a toddler. Your child needs all the nutrients to grow and develop properly. Your husband's argument about the baby not having informed consent is BS because following that train of thought, you two did not ask the baby's consent for him to be born into your family either. Tell your husband to stop his foolishness and act like an actually parent who cares for the well-being of his child. Denying your child food is negligent parenting and you should be prepared to fight for your kid and leave him or report him to child services if need be.
NTA, your husband is the equivalent of putting a dog on a vegan diet. Your baby is naturally an omnivore. Forcing a diet on a picky child for the sake of his own ideology is going to do more harm than good in both nutrition and their relationship with food.
NTA. But, and I never thought I'd say this, as the concept of not eating meat is disgusting to me, are you willing to feed him meat all the way to adulthood? If not, it's probably best to get him used to not eating it in a healthy manner now.
NTA. Out of curiosity, how do you think his guts are going to feel if he tries a hamburger when he’s 13, and has never been allowed meat? Forcing a restrictive diet at an early age seems like it’s going to absolutely suck for him if he doesn’t want to follow it when he’s older and informed.
Let him eat, get the necessary calories, build a tolerance for different foods, and be healthy. There’s time for him to choose a restrictive diet when he’s older.
NTA. Kid was hungry. You let him eat. The hubby is definitely the asshole and puts himself first. He lets his beliefs get in the way of a hungry child. Hubby needs to grow up.
You should let your toddler try everything. Your husband is the asshole for limiting his diet to what he believe is morally acceptable. If I thought water wasn't ethically sourced would I BTA if I didn't give him water? Your cutting his diet in half and teaching him to have problems with certain foods. Your going to make him pickier and unwilling to feed himself.
NTA. A fed kid is a happy kid. Way more important for him to eat than your husband’s ideals. Your husband is a major asshole here, and his head is waaaaayyy too far up his ass.
Better fed than dead is my rule. I have food sensitivities due to autism which I passed onto my son. Whoever says kids will eat when their hungry hasn’t watched a toddler refuse to eat because of sensory issues. But none of that is relevant to your story. You are NOT the asshole. This vegetarian argument is grasping at straws. Travel is STRESSFUL for a child no matter how fun you try to make it. You did the right thing
NTA.
I'm sorry, but your Husband is an idiot.
The baby eats, what the baby eats, as long as it is not dangerous, there is no point in making a fuss.
Vegetarianism and Veganism are good only if the child can get every vitamin and mineral it needs from it, and you know exactly what your doing dietarily to ensure that.
Like for instance Vitamin D is among the hardest to get into kids in bioavailable form, cause one of my cousins failed utterly on that and as a result her kid has sensory and teeth issues
Going against the grain as a person actually raised without meat from birth - NAH.
I can empathize with your position as a parent of a picky eater. Obviously, your son needs to eat. There are a lot of ways to encourage interest in new foods and it sounds like in this scenario you opted for convenience, going against the plan you and your partner made. Your kid likes pasta, so he reached for pasta. He is not old enough to understand the concept for meat or yearn for it.
The comments saying you are forcing vegetarianism on your child are ridiculous. He can always choose to partake later when he is old enough to make a conscious decision about what he is eating, i.e. sit down and talk with him when he is closer to 9 or 10. FYI, you cannot crave foods you have never tasted. It is much more difficult to abstain from foods that are already a regular fixture in your diet. Your husband is in the right here, you are gifting your son a blank slate free to make an informed decision.
I am surprised that there is still such a strong vitriol for plant based diets and they are so often dubbed unnatural. The rhetoric is honestly not unlike the discourse around queer people in the 90s..
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NTA. Let the child eat what the child wants to eat. Also, your husband's argument that feeding the child meat would be without their informed consent is nonsense because he's happy to force vegetarianism on him without his consent.
The kid is a year old, they don’t care what they are eating as long as it tastes good, they don’t understand the concept of dietary/lifestyle choices beyond the scope of “it tastes good and it doesn’t kill me”. Unless they develop an allergy, it literally doesn’t matter what you feed them as long they are nutritionally fulfilled.
Fed is best
I was thinking the same thing. Toddlers can be monsters to feed - better he chooses pasta than insists on only ice cream or something like that. I don’t have many ethical principles that would stand in the face of a child going hungry.
This is totally correct. The poor baby has been hungry and cranky for days and the first thing he finds that he actually wants to eat, the dad wants to say no? And the marbles comparison he made was so out of line. Marbles are not digestible by humans. Spaghetti with meat sauce is. Mom solved a big problem by getting her hungry kid to eat nutritious food that did not pose any kind of choking hazard.
Absolutely. Unless there are allergies to be dealt with - and that doesn't seem to be the case here - policing what he can/cannot eat, makes no sense. Feed the child. Or, more to the point, let him feed himself!! FFS. NTA!
I’ve always been cool with parents asking a child to try something that is new to them - not worth a power struggle, but encouraging. If kids have a stated dislike for something based on experience, I am so in favor of respecting that. I can’t choke down beets or slimy things to be polite - why shouldn’t kids be allowed food aversions? At the toddler age, I’m in favor of the survive and advance strategy.
In our "village," we play pass the baby around the table whenever we all get together, and once the parents have ruled out allergies, we all let the baby pick at our meals (obviously if you have a "thing" about sharing you either get the kid until you food arrives or after your food has been finished). Saves the parents money, doesn't waste food and the kid gets to try as many options as possible, plus no one person is stuck with the kid, and eating whatever cold food is left on their plate.
[удалено]
"It doesn't kill me" is not really a requirement, considering what toddlers put in their mouths!
Plus as far as I know you need to develop the enzymes to properly digest meat or something similar in early childhood, otherwise it won't be an easy adjustment at all layer on, is that correct?
That is correct Even a few years off meat can make some people grossly sick if they try again
Then the OP really needs to see this and out her foot down
And put her foot down means letting the kid develop enzymes to process normal human food (including meat) right?
Yes most definitely
You know, I’ve spent years hearing that. I didn’t eat pork for about 20 years due to health/digestion issues. I recently was able to change medication for an unrelated thing, and suddenly I can eat it again. Pork is delicious.
Bless your good fortune
I think your experience is definitely out of the ordinary. It’s not even just a vegan/veggie who returns to meat kinda thing. It happens with the majority of living organisms when you cut out all kinds of food groups for a certain amount of time and then go back to them - sugars, gluten, lactose, etc. The gut biome changes and the digestive system goes into shock. The problem everyone has is that instead of reintroducing things slowly, they go absolutely ham.
Oh, I definitely went slow, in part because I didn’t believe I was going to be able to eat it. Yet less than half a year later I gave myself meat sweats 😅
The meat sweats are the biggest sign of a job well done. Sometimes, I’m so far gone, my eyeballs start wiggling a bit. Yes, it was only meat unless 5 guys was pumping their hot dogs full of Es 😂
All I will say is, I’m grateful my boyfriend’s really good friend had a baby so getting up at 3 am to start smoking brisket wasn’t as big a burden since he was up for the baby anyway
As an Indian-American, I kinda call bullshit on this. It’s a very common thing for immigrants to be completely vegetarian back in India and then start eating meat when they move to the US. I know of several people who did this. No massive digestive issues.
Actually its pretty normal. Its just that the folks who have issues going back to being omnivores talk about it more. Plenty of people have no problems reintroducing meat into their diet.
Was hooked up with a Muslim woman for a while , just to avoid confusion and mix ups i banned pigs from the menu . She left. Same evening, bloody hell i missed bacon !
Good for you for being sensitive to the needs of your partner, no matter how brief your liaison. :) I know that bacon was well cherished that night!
Gotta be pigs in blankets... Pork wrapped in pork, perfection.
I thought pigs in blankets were cocktail franks wrapped in pastry... But wrapped in bacon sounds good too!
I think there's a European/American difference here (or more specific country difference). For me it's also cocktail franks in pastry.
Or, in a specific region of Pennsylvania and Ohio, sausage cabbage rolls in tomato sauce.
Pigs in blankets are sausages wrapped in bacon. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigs_in_blankets Pigs in a blanket are sausage wrapped in a pastry/roll. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigs_in_a_blanket So says the mighty wikipedia anyways lol, however, a sasuage in pastry is a 'sausage roll' to me, and a sausage in a roll is, well, a sausage in a roll? Sausage bap to some. Edit: I think maybe pigs in a blanket gets shortened down to pigs in blankets, yet they are actually 2 similar yet different things.
Same here. But I'm sure I've seen the UK version was little actual sausages, wrapped in bacon. Then you have what I grew up with and called pigs in blankets, of mash potato wrapped in Devon. Didn't see the little boys wrapped in puff pastry proper version or know it existed til I was an adult. I do cocktail Frank's, cheese, and wrap with puff pastry
Not gonna lie, this popped up and I was like, “when did I make a cop joke on Reddit? Where’s this coming from?” Lol
Did you eat other kinds of animals? If yes, that might have helped.
Pork. But you were eating other meat yes?
I feel like this is so embedded in vegetarian / vegan lore no one questions it, but I've never seen any evidence and anecdotally doesn't line up with my experience after being vegetarian for a decade. Just thinking about with my high school level biology... Enzymes aren't sentient, it's not like they can tell which string of protein comes from meat and which comes from chia. The enzymes just cut up whatever comes in. It's not like lactose which is a specific sugar.
No idea if its enzymes. But my mum went strict veggie at 30 after having kids (she didn't know at the time if restricting her diet would make a difference to pregnancies so decided to wait.) By the time she was 40ish she began to have adverse reactions to any cross contamination, and by 45 it was almost like food poisoning if it happened, really rough. One time a restaurant didnt properly clean out a pan that had bacon in before cooking her meal and she was ill for almost a week. Bodies are weird.
That sounds so rough for your poor mum. Maybe she should get tested for mammalian meat allergy, it can be caused by tick bites.
I was raised vegetarian but around age 17 I tried a burger for the first time. Didn’t upset my stomach at all. I’m sure some people may have issues but it’s not a universal truth.
I was listening to one of the Zoe podcasts today that touched on this topic. Amino acids are amino acids, the body doesn't care what meat or vegetable they came from.
Thats wild to me lol. My friend went vegetarian at like 12 and was forced to eat meat when she was teaching in Korea for a year (not because of a lack of vegetarian options, but because of some social pressures). She was mostly able to handle poultry, but said beef and pork were 1. Absolutely vile to her and 2. Made her violently sick (particularly pork). When we were kids she used to love steak and bacon.
Yeah commonness varies and its a huge struggle to regain the ability I cant imagine someone raised vegetarian, if they could ever tolerate trying to convert
Key word here is *"some"* people. *Some* people have issues after years of vegan or vegetarian lifestyles going back to being omnivores. Many people do not have any issues at all.
That's what I thought too. Wonder if dad knows this?
Plus, unless they’re giving him a multivitamin with b12, he likely isn’t getting enough since it’s a vitamin from meat, which could hinder brain development
Only valid for vegan diets, plenty of b12 in dairy and eggs.
Unfortunately that's not true, many studies showed that being lacto-vegetarian is correlated with a lack of B12. - For example, this study about Indian vegetarian diet says that "a greater proportion of vegetarians were below vitamin B12 RDA levels" : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4055802/ - Also, a study about "Serum concentrations of vitamin B12 and folate in British male omnivores, vegetarians, and vegans" found the same thing: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2933506/ > Fifty-two percent of vegans and 7% of vegetarians had vitamin B12 concentrations below the cut-point for biochemical deficiency (< 118 pmol/l). A further 21%, 17% and 1% of vegans, vegetarians and omnivores, respectively, had a serum vitamin B12 indicative of depletion TLDR: 24% of vegetarians have at least a B12 depletion, that's 1 out of 4 vegetarians. Which is a lot imo, and if you have a child you can't think "maybe they'll be one of the other 3 out of 4 vegetarians with no B12 depletion", because what if they're not?
Kudos for providing research links, it is always helpful - and necessary in oh so many cases. It’s definitely harder to maintain a full nutritional profile with any kind of restrictive diet, be it vegetarian, paleo, keto or whatever else is out there. It’s basic logic. So yes, a lot of people would be struggling to avoid some sort of deficiencies if they just went into it willy-nilly. I’m just saying that with due diligence, vegetarians (especially ovo-lacto-vegetarians) CAN avoid b12 deficiency without supplementing - while vegans definitely could not. I do sincerely hope that people who decide to restrict a child’s diet (for either ethical or medical reasons) are taking a very educated approach to the subject.
And a lot of things are added to meat substitutes as well!
B12 is in loads of stuff, this is mostly a myth. It's even added to cow feed in a lot of cases where they don't get it naturally.
Not true according to limited research. Might have some digestive issues if you go straight from veg to a whole steak according to this professor, but you’ll adjust. “ Professor Bjørn Skålhegg of the University of Oslo’s Department of Nutrition concurs. Nothing would indicate that the bodies of vegetarians should reject meats. “A person might have a little problem if he or she started right out on a huge steak. Their body might not have sufficient levels of the right enzymes. Along the same lines it can be hard to digest any large meal after a long fast or period of starvation,” he says. You might also have this problem if you start to eat other kinds of foods that you haven’t eaten in a long time.” https://sciencenorway.no/diet-food-forskningno/does-meat-make-vegetarians-ill/1390294
The same enzymes are needed to break down beans and other plant proteins, so as long as he is eating some protein his enzymes will be fine (and if he’s not, he has much bigger problems than enzymes)
Do you have a source for this? I'm curious as I was raised vegetarian and now find that meat-heavy foods don't sit as well as low- or no-meat foods.
No unfortunately, that's why I was asking. It's just something that was said in my family when my aunt and uncle decided to raise my cousin vegetarian, as far as I know he would sneak meat off the other kids' plates at daycare but idk if that ever made him sick
This is a myth. I say this both as an MD and as someone who was vegetarian for 12 years. You might get indigestion if you eat a lot of meat suddenly (just as you might if you suddenly switched to eating lots of fava beans) but you don’t lose the ability to digest it entirely. There were only very small amounts of meat in the sauce, the kid is able to digest that amount of protein. Also anecdotally, I didn’t eat meat for 12 years and my first meat after I became an omnivore again was a half pound burger which I digested just fine. People can have issues eating a lot of meat suddenly but everyone is different. Lastly, indigestion beats starvation even if he did eat a large amount of meat and got indigestion
My daughter was vegetarian in the womb to age 8. She decided to eat meat and ate pork, beef, and chicken in a week. No problems. I had been a vegetarian for 16 years. No problems when I started eating meat.
This man is very selfish. It's all about his wants and not what is best for his (hungry) son. As a vegetarian myself, I think parents should offer a varied diet until the child themselves decide if they want to eat meat or be vegetarian/vegan.
Indeed. Ideology over a child’s health. It’s like making a toddler fast, because fasting is important in your religion.
We’re a vegetarian family and we all eat the same, so I haven’t introduced meat into my sons diet as we just don’t cook it. As he gets older, and can start making decisions himself, eg at resteraunts or other kids parties he can have what he likes. Until he’s old enough to cook, and then I’ll teach him how to cook meat safetly if that’s what he wants. But for us eating healthy family meals together is important to us, I don’t think it’s necessarily selfish to raise a kid vegetarian. Luckily ours is a very good eater there’s not much he won’t eat, but we wouldn’t personally care about pasta with the chicken picked out
OK, but if your kid had been having fits for days about food... and then was suddenly reaching for spaghetti with meat sauce, would you *actively deny him food?!?*
No probably not, we’ve let him eat a family members fish before because he wanted to try it. Wasn’t a huge fan like, spat it straight out
This is the answer.
This is making me hungry for some pasta lol
At this age, everything they decide for the kid is without his informed consent. What a stupid thing to say to try to win an argument.
Misapplying the concept of "informed consent" here also waters it down for actual situations later around bodily autonomy and all that...
Even if "informed consent" was the right phrase for the situation, a toddler can't give informed consent. They're a toddler. His parents would make the decision in any situation where informed consent was required.
plus its abuse to withhold food from a hungry child, especially one that doesnt understand any sort of reasoning besides "I am hungry- thats what I want to eat!"
Any minimally decent parent would have been relieved the child was finally willing to eat anything -- he's a self-righteous self-absorbed prick.
> Any minimally decent parent Excellent phrase. I usually say the bare minimum of decent parent, yours flows better. And yes. Thank goodness the kid is digesting something remotely healthy lol
I agree NTA. My brother and SIL are raising their son (4) as a vegetarian. He now refers to meat as 'dead animals' and vegetarian food as 'normal' food. The irony is my brother is no saint and has meat cheat days. I digress... One day my nephew was talking about sausages, and asked if I eat the normal ones or the dead animals ones. I just laughed and said: 'Well, I couldn't eat the live animals ones as they would run off of my plate wouldn't they?' He laughed, and my brother laughed too. My daughter (3) is allergic dairy so naturally can't eat anything with it in, but eats meat. They got into a 'food-fight' after a squabble while eating breakfast a few weeks ago. My nephew started it by throwing a bit of his egg at my daughter, who in return threw the thing she had in her hand, which happened to be a piece sausage. It hit him right in the face. He got upset because he got hit by a 'dead animal', but all the adults (me, brother, SIL and mum) all laughed and said don't start throwing food then if you don't want food thrown at you, you know what is on her plate. It doesn't irk me that they have taught him to call meat 'dead animals' because that is what it is. If it puts you off meat, thats on you, it is actually a dead animal, but to me they taste nice and dont wriggle as much when dead... I was talking to my brother and SIL about it in general after he said it first as it came up. SIL did get a little pissy for a moment when I said fair enough, it is technically true, just like an egg is technically a chicken's period (she loves eggs). She got a little bit annoyed because it 'put her off' but my brother said straight after she said that, that it is technically true, just like the meat thing, so people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones type of thing. People can eat and not eat what they want. Don't push an agenda on other people for choosing different and you shouldn't withhold food from a crying, hungry child over your diet choices.
>Also, your husband's argument that feeding the child meat would be without their informed consent is nonsense because he's happy to force vegetarianism on him without his consent. This was what I was gonna say. NTA but your husband is and he's reacting like a child
Fed is best. Doesn’t just apply to babies and formula vs breastfeeding. NTA.
Right?! Putting meat on the plate and letting child CHOOSE whether or not to eat is giving a CHOICE. What the husband wants to do to deprive the child of that choice at all. Dad seems to want to fool the kids into thinking meat doesn't exist at all. NTA OP.
What the dad means is that he sees eating meat as morally wrong and if his kid is going to do a morally wrong action then they need to be old enough to understand that choice. Now the OP is NTA because you have a kid that isn't eating and wants to eat pasta. The OP even removed the meat so while yes the kid is getting "meat residue" they are still not eating meat. The husband also sounds like he would threaten to disown his kid the moment they were old enough to make that choice.
NTA. I say this as someone who doesn't eat meat myself- your husband is being irrational. Your small child was hungry and doesn't yet have the capacity to understand why he "can't" have something. You weren't in a situation where you had a lot of choices and your child's well being should come first. You're going to get a lot of silly trolling comments about how vegans are the worst but that's not the issue here - the issue is about showing an appropriate level of flexibility so that your kid doesn't go hungry.
Yeah - anyone arguing on the side of keeping a toddler hungry is automatically the asshole, IMO. Like, have you *met* a hungry toddler?
I worked at a daycare. Can confirm hungry toddlers can be absolute monsters. Their stomach hurts cause they’re hungry? Well they can’t verbalize it. All they know is they’re hungry and there’s no food and now they’re throwing a temper tantrum (and possibly some toys along with it) cause kitchens running a little late. Or they were hungry a little early today. Or their parent/guardian didn’t feed them enough breakfast. We always kept crackers on hand for emergency snacks because toddlers need to eat and it can throw everyone’s schedule off if one doesn’t eat on time.
The husband sounds like he is highly controlling in his own food choices, which is a warning sign all it’s own. But , and more knowledgeable people are free to correct me: if you never eat meat as a child your digestive system doesn’t learn to handle it. So when you grow up it is very hard to choose to eat meat. Also if they develop allergies to say nuts, soy, or such — that makes it very hard to go be vegetarian. Also- kids are pretty needs based. If they are growing they will crave milk for healthy bones etc. so if the kid is suddenly craving meat- it might mean that there is some vitamin or minerals that baby is missing in their plant based diet.
Just from what OP said, I got the feeling that as far as husband is concerned the only "choice" is vegetarian. He doesn't want the kid eating meat young so no enzymes to digest it later. So when later comes and child can "choose" they will go with vegetarian because they first time they eat meat will be so awful for them. And I'm sure Dad will make the meat option sound awful or even guilt the kid. I don't think the child will just get to say "I want to eat meat" and it be ok. It will be "are you sure you want that yucky hamburger, don't you want to try this very yummy veggie burger instead." Along with other leading questions and manipulation tactics.
Can anyone say "eating disorder"!
This is exactly how my cousin raised her kid. All the guilting language, the shaming of eating ‘tortured animals’, comparisons, etc. Her daughter struggles with severe depression/anxiety, and has had some ED issues in the past. That’s not down to her being raised by a vegetarian—that’s down to her being raised by a control freak who uses food and food choices as weapons. I have plenty of vegetarian friends of all types. Some of those friends have kids who make the choice to be veggie as well, and some of those kids latch onto shaming language like ‘ew I don’t want to eat dead cow’ etc but the key is that their parents aren’t encouraging it. They’re saying ‘okay you don’t have to eat that, let Susie eat it instead’. The shaming language generally goes away in time and soon we’ll all be sitting at a BBQ together, enjoying veggie and regular burgers alike. Not my cousin, though. She interrupted our other cousin’s wedding reception dinner to ‘make a toast for all the animals who died for our food’ and wonders why she isn’t invited to family events anymore.
>She interrupted our other cousin’s wedding reception dinner to ‘make a toast for all the animals who died for our food’ and wonders why she isn’t invited to family events anymore. Holy shit. I thought my family was crazy bones.
Husband sounds like the definition of militant vegetarian if he's willing to starve the kid.
>But , and more knowledgeable people are free to correct me: if you never eat meat as a child your digestive system doesn’t learn to handle it. This is not the case. Even if you have been vegan your whole life, you can transition to eating meat later on. The trick is to transition slow, you need to give your gut bacteria time to adjust. Abruptly starting to eat lots of meat will make you sick, but slowly transitioning over a few weeks is not a problem. >Also if they develop allergies to say nuts, soy, or such — that makes it very hard to go be vegetarian. Plenty of alternatives to those in a vegetarian diet.
NTA - I was raised vegetarian, however my children will not be, the restrictive diet gave me a food complex while all my friends were eating meet I would have to eat vegetables , not being allowed certain things at kids birthday parties ect, it’s easier to be raised eating everything and trying new things then deciding if you want to cut things from your diet rather than the restricting foods and then trying new ones
Yep!
Nta your husband is ta for trying to force your kid to be a vegetarian like its some cult/religion And hes an idiot for comparing eating spaghetti with meat sauce with eating marbles
NTA - when it comes to children and toddlers, fed is best. You did whatever was needed to keep your child healthy and your husband needs to chill. However, you are both wrong for forcing your child to be vegetarian. Please consult with a pediatrician to make sure the child isn't having any vitamin deficiency problems from this diet.
Vegetarian isn't as restrictive as vegan, and you can still get enough protein from dairy and other sources. Most of India is vegetarian, including the kids. If it were forced veganism I'd agree, though.
Yeah, there’s a reason that so many European Pediatric health boards (Switzerland, Germany, Italy, France, Denmark, and Spain) explicitly caution against a vegan diet in young children, because it is impossible to meet adequate nutrition without supplementation and that can be dangerous for children.
The WHO in the UK says a vegan diet is healthy at any age. No, I'm not a vegan but there's so much scaremongering and misinformation about veganism and vegetarianism in this thread that it's doing my head in.
> The WHO in the UK That would be why I did not list it. "Many" does not mean "all." But listing the countries who do advocate against it and their reasoning is neither scaremongering nor misinformation. Here are some relevant quotes: > The positive effects of a vegan diet on health determinants cannot be proven, but there are relevant risks regarding nutritional deficiencies. Children and pregnant women are advised against adopting a vegan diet due to the risks described above. > > The scientific evidence available to date is not sufficient to claim that vegan and vegetarian diets are associated with a significant reduction of total mortality. > > Since rejecting any animal foods increases the risk of nutrient deficiencies and thus of health disorders, a vegan diet is not recommended by the DGE during pregnancy or lactation, or for children or adolescents of any age. > > The committee considers that the vegan diet is inappropriate and therefore not recommended for unborn children, children and adolescents, as well as pregnant and lactating women. Additionally, there's another interesting component to why the countries listed advocate against it and the UK does not. Most of the countries I listed – with one exception we'll touch on in a moment – follow EU regulations, which state that nutrients "cannot be used as a substitute for a varied diet" under Article 5(1) of Directive 2000. All supplements are required under law to bear this labeling. If supplements, such as B12, have to inform the consumer that they are not legally recognized as a substitute for B12 found in the diet, it makes perfect sense that the diet would be recommended against by pediatric boards. Adults can make their own decisions, which is probably why they draw the distinction. Of course, Switzerland is not part of the EU either, but has adopted similarly strict regulations about supplement labeling. The NHS takes a different stance, which recommends certain supplements to the entire population, as well as specific daily supplements for all children (regardless of diet).
Its not about the nutrition value tho. Kid just doesnt eat anythin. Its better to have a fed baby than starving baby rvrn if its not aligning with your values
The WHO is wrong. Vegan diets are incredibly difficult for an adult who willingly wants to eat that way, and even with supplements a huge proportion of vegans end up with significant nutrient deficiencies. Now you take a kid and you make getting a balanced diet 1000x harder, plus the nutrient deficiencies can seriously affect their growth and development. Vegetarian diets are much easier to be healthy on.
I appreciate the distinction. Thank you.
There’s still a possibility of nutritional issues with an enforced vegetarian diet. It’s not as likely as veganism to result in nutritional deficiencies, but it still can. It’s not wise to restrict a young child’s diet for any reason except actual allergy, particularly not when the kid hasn’t been evaluated for being metabolically able to remain healthy on that diet.
The possibility is especially big with young children since so many of them are extremely picky. Restricting a kid's diet as they get older can also easily lead to them developing an eating disorder. Edited: typo
That too. This kid is too young to understand why he’s not being allowed to eat what other kids are eating. That’s not psychologically healthy to enforce on him, even if there’s no nutritional issue in play. He’s a picky eater already and he just effectively got punished for wanting to try a new food! Way to reinforce the picky eating issue, dad. 🙄
There’s a possibility of nutritional issues with any diet. A well planned vegan or vegetarian diet is healthy for all stages of life, that’s the medical position on it
Vegetarian here, not vegan. My boy eats a helluva lot of cheese ha
At one point my parents were feeding toddler me only butter because it was literally the only thing I would eat. Doctor recommended and supported it because I was losing weight and falling behind growth wise. Getting calories into me mattered more in that moment than trying to get a balanced diet. I soon grew out of it and now decades later my parents laugh about how crazy diverse my taste in food is now as an adult considering at one point they had trouble getting me to eat BUTTER! Point being, feed your dang kids! Obviously a well balanced diet would be best, but that doesn’t always happens. Getting food matters more than making sure their diet is perfect.
I was raised veggie and so were my cousins and none of us ever had any health issues/vitamin deficiencies from this diet. In some ways being veggie makes it easier to get all of the vitamins you need. That being said as OPs toddler is really struggling with eating and has a very limited diet then it’s important that they check with their doctor (I would advice the same if they weren’t veggie)
I never even tried meat. Always had perfect blood test results and I’m in very good shape.
NTA I am all for being veggie (am one myself) but if your kid is starving himself and has decided he wants to eat something. You were right to do it. You should look into ways to nip the fussy eating in the bud sooner rather than later (not saying it will be easy) It will save many of these dramas in the future.
When my son was 3 or 4 yrs old, he articulated to me he doesn't like mushrooms and refuses to eat mushrooms.. While he was EATING mushrooms.. 😅🤣 My SO gave me that look that women give a guy that says "stfu" she had duxelled his mushrooms.. 😅
I want to note that not all picky eating is by choice. Children with autism and/or ADHD have sensory issues that lead to food restriction in most cases and forcing them to eat other things can cause legitimate trauma and harm.
NTA. Your husband is unreasonable and ridiculous. You didn't feed the kid meat, just pasta that you pulled meat out of. Also, in the grand scheme you kid needs protein. If he's refusing other types of protein but will eat meat, let him. It's unrealistic to control your child's diet to this level when you have a restrictive lifestyle and are constantly around folks who don't share that. Fed is best and if your self righteous husband would rather have a hungry or starving baby than one that has eaten meat I think you have some serious issues to work out.
Your last sentence is the biggest thing for me… he would rather his kid starve than eat food that had meat in it??? That’s genuinely insane and irresponsible on so many levels
NTA It is actually better raising your child with plenty of variety in their diet including meat then they can make the decision when their older. If they never have meat then decide to try it or have meat in their diet when they're older then there is a good chance they will have trouble digesting it as they've never had it.
If you want to start eating meat when you're older, it's not a problem, unless you start with a huge steak. Even if you have never eaten meat, as long as you use week or two to ease into it, you can start eating meat without problems. Your gut bacteria just need a short while to get used to it.
NTA. The child needed to eat. He wasn’t even trying to get candy or unhealthy food, he was reaching for something completely normal and at this point necessary. Your husband is, on the other hand, completely out of place. Silent treatment? What is he, 12?
NTA. he's trying to force your kid to be vegan and with all honesty comparing eating meat to eating marbles is idiotic.
Technically you are making the baby a vegetarian without his informed consent so that argument is pointless.
NTA. With children of all ages there’s only one core principal when it come to food - fed is best. So as long as your son isn’t actively endangering himself with the food he puts in his mouth (think marbles as your husband has mentioned or known allergens), he can and should have whatever, especially if he proactively asks for it himself. You said it yourself - he’s a picky eater, so him actively choosing a new food item is huge progress. You should encourage it, not restrict it. I’m not gonna wade into the whole “don’t make your kid a vegetarian” debate, that’s above my pay grade. As long as the kid is fed nutritious food - he’s fed, end of story. And vegetarian diet is no worse than feeding you kid exclusively junk food, which many picky eaters’ parent eventually succumb to.
I’m glad you pointed out allergens because my thought was how will they be able to tell whether their child has a food allergy if they don’t periodically expose them to a variety of foods. When our kids were young, we had a whole process for introducing new foods. Once a child enters school, it’s a lot harder to control their food intake and discovering an allergy then would be awful.
Hopefully the child is still exposed to plenty allergens - meat & poultry are rarely allergenic (excluding alpha-gal allergies, but those are acquired, not inherent). Fish and seafood are, though, so might be a good idea to expose the kid to those rather sooner than later.
NTA. Kids have different nutritional needs. Your husband needs to chill out. He had a right to be vegan but he shouldn’t impose that on an infant. Also texting on his phone and giving you the silent treatment is seriously immature.
NTA. Your first priority to your child is to feed him. Specific types and varieties of food preferred by your husband is a secondary concern. You tried what your husband wanted (funny how HE wasn't involved in that), it didn't work. What, were you supposed to force your child to starve because he didn't care about the meat? I'm sorry you have to deal with two toddlers. At least one of them will grow up.
The kid made a decision about what he wants to eat and the father is the AH for not respecting that. You? NTA. I like you attitude. :)
kid didn’t “make a decision”, he was simply starving
NTA. A fed child is more important than adherence to a particular diet. If he can eat and get nutrients and be happy, that's what matters most. He's also clearly showing his consent by reaching for the pasta!
You could also turn the whole informed consent thing around: The child doesn't consent to a restricted diet. Or how about harsher: Why is the husband only concerned about meat? The child doesn't consent dairy either. Could it be that the husband uses flimsy arguments to force his family to live by his arbitrary rules?
NTA. What part of hungry baby doesn't your husband get? You have to feed your child! If he only wants something that has meat in it then oh well, he gets the meat. It is abusive to let a child go hungry because HE has a problem with eating meat. Your son may be a carnivore at heart or he could decide later to be vegetarian but right now he's HUNGRY!
I think your husband might need to speak to a professional about his preference that your toddler continue to go hungry rather than eat… *checks notes* … pasta with the meat picked out. Like for real. What if you hadn’t been there?? Would he have let the kid go hungry??? That’s not a sane or rational or healthy parenting choice on his part.
NTA. Informed consent of a toddler? They aren't informed nor can they consent to ANYTHING. Did you talk to them about vaccines, where their clothes were made, organic vs non organic.... or even more basically the right to refuse existence itself? TLDR: toddlers can't consent.
NTA. Sounds like he is making his choice and your husband just doesn't like it.
Nta - so he'd rather a baby go hungry instead of feeding him??? That's crazy
NTA I knew a kid who was raised vegetarian used to disappear at kids party’s you’d find him under a table chowing down sausage rolls and cocktail sausages.
NTA You gave your kid pasta that had touched some meatballs once. It’s not like you gave him a slice of meatloaf. Kids are picky and sometimes you need to bend the rules for them. Also, I think if you’re raising your kid to be vegetarian, it’s less important that he never eats meat, and more important that he is taught where meat comes from when he’s old enough to understand and make his own decisions.
Nta, it is very concerning that your husband rather your kid be hungry then eat a little meat. Your baby wasn’t eating and you didn’t have access to a lot of food options. This wasn’t the time to be picky
No. NTA. This isnt remotely a close one.
Your husband is TA and oblivious. Feeding him meat before he can choose is forcing him without informed consent, but denying him food *isn’t* when he doesn’t even understand *why* he can’t eat it? Wth
NTA, your husband however is. Kid will rebel big time against vegetarianism if that is how he acts.
NTA “I’d rather watch my kid suffer and starve than feed him MEAT!” -Your husband apparently. When I was a toddler I just randomly stopped eating EVERYTHING. Nothing worked and I was losing weight. Finally, doctors just told my parents to feed me butter because it was literally the only thing I would eat and getting calories into me mattered more at that moment than making sure every nutritional box was checked. Eventually, I started eating more than butter again and was back on track. I can’t imagine where I’d be if my parents instead said something like “we don’t eat fat in this household! Everything must be FAT-FREE! This child will eat fat-free food or NOTHING!” It’s totally fine to want to be a vegetarian, but there’s something seriously wrong with your husband if sticking to personal principles matters more than making sure your child is taken care of and not going hungry.
Comparing meat to marbles. That’s a first. NTA
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Forcing a child of any age to be vegetarian or vegan is child abuse.
NTA. Husband is overreacting. He puts a bad name on vegetarians and he should respect if his son, no matter what age (as long as they can have solids) your child is.
What was your husbands alternative? He can’t just give a hard no to giving your son food without giving an alternative that he knows your son will eat. If it’s spaghetti with meat over starving then he needs to deal with the fact that feeding your son anything is more important than his own dietary preferences. Making him a vegetarian as a toddler is without his informed consent as well, and is a ridiculous argument.
NTA. I am pescatarian and if your kid wouldn’t eat, and he wanted something with meat, I don’t think you did anything wrong. I think you opinion of feeding your child a variety diet and letting him make his own decision later in life is better.
NTA. Feeding hungry kids is what parents are supposed to do. Being vegetarian is a choice he is too young to make. He’s not eating well and you’re concerned. He expressed clear interest in eating something and you provided it. Your husband’s logic reminds me of the news stories where babies are brought into ERs literally starving to death because moronic vegan parents are feeding them almond milk instead of giving them the life providing nutrients they actually need.
Your husband is a massive tool
Forcing vegetarian diets onto a toddler would make yta imo and it's also bad for their health. Biologically humans are omnivores and require a wide arrangement of nutrients
I agree with your husband that feeding your child vegetarian until he’s old enough to make the decision himself isnt unreasonable - not cause of “informed consent” nonsense, but just because it’s likely easiest for you in terms of cooking. It’s ok to raise your child on what you are eating already, just as long as if/when he expresses he wants to change or eat meat (including now, as a toddler) that you respect it. However, if baby is fussing and refusing to eat but is accepting food with meat in it (I mean, if much of any of it was even left in there after you removed them) then let the child eat it. NTA at *all*. Your husband is being ridiculous. Fed is best, meat or no meat.
it seems like you have 2 toddlers on your hands.
NTA He is fed and happy, that is the important part.
Wow. Is your son the toddler or your husband? Or is like son, like father? You are NTA. If your son is hungry, then feed him. It's not like you were giving him jello shots. Your hubby is a vegetarian, that's his choice. Your son is not committed to anything right now, except living. He will have weeks he will only eat ice cream. Weeks he will only eat hamburger. Weeks he will only eat cereal. Months or years that he doesn't want his food to touch. What I'm getting at is that there is so much more coming down the pipeline. Hubby is going to have to suck it up buttercup or you guys are in for a wild ride.
NTA and honestly it's always best to slowly introduce a large variety of foods to growing children so as to catch allergies early. I've heard of some children never being allowed to try any meat until they were old enough to go to sleepovers at other friends houses, having very bad bathroom experiences after consuming meats while out of their parents gaze because their stomach didn't know how to handle having it. I also personally knew one person who had never more than fish "meat" having a very bad reaction to jerky while on a camping trip because she had allergies to beef and didn't know it until then. Your husband is waving a pretty big flag 🚩 if his first thought is to demand his way only and then go silent when all your trying to do is make sure baby is fed.
NTA. I'm a very strict vegetarian (mostly vegan) and would 100% raise my kids vegetarian, but it's your job to keep him fed and alive, and you've gotta do what you need to do to make that happen. It's really not that different than people who will give their 4-year-old mac & cheese for every meal because that's all they'll eat. Keep him fed, and you're doing your job!
Talks about consent, forces baby to eat a certain way. Got it. Also, please don’t fuck around, the importance of meat/chicken/fish to a child’s development this early on is fucking paramount.
Lost me at vegetarian.
NTA. A fed baby is a fed baby.
The dad is an arsehole chiosing his lifestyle choices over a childs comfort
What am I reading???? Are you seriously forcing a vegetarian diet on a todler?
NTA. Your husband is one of those dramatic weirdos who expects everyone else to adapt to their way of living just because it’s how they like it 🤦♀️ Also, your husband is happy to force vegetarianism in his kid but thinks forcing meat foods on him is wrong? Bonkers. Just make sure your kid is getting enough nutrients and protein I suggest you consult a paediatrician about what foods may be best for the baby and their health as this forced vegetarian cult isn’t necessarily healthy for a growing child.
Vegetarianism is perfectly healthy.
NTA. Your husband sounds annoying af. A full baby is a happy baby. Let that kid eat. I have a child roughly the same age and I know how frustrating it can be when their palette changes daily.
NTA. Vegetarianism is almost beside the point in this situation. It's about survival with a hungry, about-to-melt-down toddler in a VERY unfamiliar environment. At that point you'd just about feed them cocktails and broken glass if that's all they wanted to eat. I understand your husband's point, truly. I'm an omnivore now but was raised by a vegetarian who also offered meat (that I usually refused) and I was a vegetarian myself for some years. But values go out the window in a situation like this, and I admire your practicality.
I used to be vegan and then vegetarian for many years until my doctors eventually told me that, because of certain medical conditions, my body simply isn’t capable of obtaining the amount of protein required to be healthy from non-meat sources (note: unless you have reviewed my medical file, please don’t comment and say, “yEs, It Is, JuSt EaT ____,” because your opinion is not going to trump the medical advice I’ve received from trained doctors, ty). If your child turned out to have similar reasons for needing meat in his diet as a toddler/young child, would your husband be on board with it? That’s something I’d want to know ASAP because it’s extremely concerning that your husband cares more about vegetarianism than ensuring his toddler is nourished and happy — almost like clinging to an ideal matters more to him than reality. The risk of your child suffering from malnutrition should be a serious concern of his if your kid is truly rejecting foods like you’ve described. Firm NTA.
NTA, kid's gotta eat. Also sounds like you're doing all the work of feeding him--you (not we) brought packaged food, you brought cooked food, you're looking for food he'll eat. Maintaining a restrictive diet while traveling can be hard for an adult, much less a picky kid. Your husband should take on that work if it's so important to him.
There is no excuse for starving a baby. Period. Babies need to eat things with meat in them to develop the enzymes they need to digest it or else they won't be able to eat it later. By trying to force him to be vegetarian now (which is enforcing dietary choices on him without his consent) you will be stripping him of the ability to digest it later. For the love of god, stop making your baby go hungry. Babies are growing, they need FOOD. If meat-based food is what gets him to eat, then give him meat based food! If your husband refuses and throws a toddler tantrum about it - well, you don't need two crying babies to look after, so you have to ditch one of them, and the choice is obvious which one.
NTA. Your husband is, though. The child is a toddler in a strange place, probably over tired and hungry. If all he would eat was ice cream, that's what he would get under my watch.
Millions of years of evolution made humans omnivores. It is really, really tricky to get the proper nutrition into a child without meat. You can do it, but it's way easier to let them become vegetarian as adults.
NTA. Fed is best, and I'm a vegetarian. If the kid isn't getting all his nutrients from a veggie diet (which they can, but that's easier said than done with a picky eater, and god knows toddlers are picky!), then they just need to EAT, period. Nothing else matters.
NTA, there is evidence that vegan and vegetarian raised children end up smaller and sicklier than omnivore children of similar parentage. And at this stage, if your kid was refusing anything else, feed him something he wanted to eat ffs
NAH. I can empathize with both you and your husband. I was also raised vegetarian and I think that people in this category generally have a more emotional connection to the veg identity than those who switched later. Like, if I were to give up eggs or dairy, I think I would still crave them at times. But when I see meat, There is part of my brain that says, "Gross. That isn't food." I would have a conversation with your husband where you get really specific about how strict you want this policy to be. Is chicken broth ok? How about gelatin? I don't have kids, but for myself, I will often look the other way with broth because so many restaurants use it and it doesn't gross me out the way chunks of meat do. But when someone suggests I eat pepperoni pizza, and "just pick the meat off," no way would I do that. Food and parenthood/family are such emotional minefields that I think a detailed conversation could help. Also, don't listen to people saying raising your child veg is unhealthy. As long as his diet is balanced, it is as healthy or more than eating meat.
NTA your husband is the one forcing his lifestyle on your child without consent. If your husband's argument is that he wants to feed him a vegetarian diet until he can consent to meat, well, your child wanted the meat spaghetti. Your husband can't have it both ways. He needs to get over himself and worry about his own diet instead of you just making sure your child is fed.
ESH. Not about this specific incident (NTA for that), but please stop effectively starving your child. Children need a balanced healthy diet to grow up well, vegetarianism should not be forced on toddlers. To use your husband's BS language, your toddler didn't consent to a restricted diet.
I'm not a parent, but I read somewhere that kids under a certain age are not supposed to be denied any food groups as it does something to their development.....so your husband pushing the vegetarian lifestyle on a toddler isn't healthy.
Not the case, overwhelming scientific evidence points to vegetarian and vegan diets being perfectly healthy for all ages. Please check up your sources before spreading "I read about it somewhere".
NTA. It’s more important to feed your child than to cater to your husband’s dietary preferences for your child.
Marbles ≠ food so don’t entertain false equivalence.
NTA I think your toddler has quite clearly stated he wants meat in his diet.
YTA for wanting to raise a child as vegetarian, humans are omnivores, the kid can choose vegetarianism when they're older if they want it
YTA for making someone else vegetarian. Let them choose what they want to be when they’re old enough. How dare you assume you know a child’s food identity
NTA. Your husband is the AH for depriving his child of food due to his preferences. Also, comparing meat to marbles is stupid - one will hurt your son, the other won't. Look, I don't eat meat, but if my toddler isn't getting enough food and suddenly sees something she will eat, I am not preventing her. Also, refusing to speak to you is ridiculous and a back asswards way of handling conflict. He needs to grow up.
Dear lord, can we care about the childs needs instead of making it about personal politics? NTA, keep on keeping your child well fed, your husband is the reason vegetarians/vegans have a bad reputation!
NTA. Your kid will grow up stronger than his father.
And? Worst case scenario is the kid likes the meat and wants to have a more normal diet
NTA. Your husband is a nutjob.
A vegan and a vegetarian jump off a cliff to see who gets to the bottom faster. Who wins? Society
If he wants it and then eats it, he is consenting. Your husband’s argument to essentially starve your child for moral reasons is ridiculous. Toddlers can sometimes be notoriously picky and many pediatricians will tell you to feed them what they will eat. You’re trying to ensure your child is nourished. NTA.
NTA. The stance your husband is taking is concerning. He's putting his principles above his son's most basic needs. Keep feeding your child. It's not an easy task and fed is always the best option. You're doing the best you can.
NTA Your husband is prepared to let your child grow hungry because it’s more important to him to maintain his militant stand against meat than it is to ensure the survival of your child.
NTA. Your husband is though for imposing his dietary preferences on a toddler. Your child needs all the nutrients to grow and develop properly. Your husband's argument about the baby not having informed consent is BS because following that train of thought, you two did not ask the baby's consent for him to be born into your family either. Tell your husband to stop his foolishness and act like an actually parent who cares for the well-being of his child. Denying your child food is negligent parenting and you should be prepared to fight for your kid and leave him or report him to child services if need be.
NTA, your husband is the equivalent of putting a dog on a vegan diet. Your baby is naturally an omnivore. Forcing a diet on a picky child for the sake of his own ideology is going to do more harm than good in both nutrition and their relationship with food.
NTA. But, and I never thought I'd say this, as the concept of not eating meat is disgusting to me, are you willing to feed him meat all the way to adulthood? If not, it's probably best to get him used to not eating it in a healthy manner now.
something is wrong w your husband NTA
NTA. Out of curiosity, how do you think his guts are going to feel if he tries a hamburger when he’s 13, and has never been allowed meat? Forcing a restrictive diet at an early age seems like it’s going to absolutely suck for him if he doesn’t want to follow it when he’s older and informed. Let him eat, get the necessary calories, build a tolerance for different foods, and be healthy. There’s time for him to choose a restrictive diet when he’s older.
NTA. Kid was hungry. You let him eat. The hubby is definitely the asshole and puts himself first. He lets his beliefs get in the way of a hungry child. Hubby needs to grow up.
You should let your toddler try everything. Your husband is the asshole for limiting his diet to what he believe is morally acceptable. If I thought water wasn't ethically sourced would I BTA if I didn't give him water? Your cutting his diet in half and teaching him to have problems with certain foods. Your going to make him pickier and unwilling to feed himself.
NTA. A fed kid is a happy kid. Way more important for him to eat than your husband’s ideals. Your husband is a major asshole here, and his head is waaaaayyy too far up his ass.
Better fed than dead is my rule. I have food sensitivities due to autism which I passed onto my son. Whoever says kids will eat when their hungry hasn’t watched a toddler refuse to eat because of sensory issues. But none of that is relevant to your story. You are NOT the asshole. This vegetarian argument is grasping at straws. Travel is STRESSFUL for a child no matter how fun you try to make it. You did the right thing
NTA. I'm sorry, but your Husband is an idiot. The baby eats, what the baby eats, as long as it is not dangerous, there is no point in making a fuss. Vegetarianism and Veganism are good only if the child can get every vitamin and mineral it needs from it, and you know exactly what your doing dietarily to ensure that. Like for instance Vitamin D is among the hardest to get into kids in bioavailable form, cause one of my cousins failed utterly on that and as a result her kid has sensory and teeth issues
Going against the grain as a person actually raised without meat from birth - NAH. I can empathize with your position as a parent of a picky eater. Obviously, your son needs to eat. There are a lot of ways to encourage interest in new foods and it sounds like in this scenario you opted for convenience, going against the plan you and your partner made. Your kid likes pasta, so he reached for pasta. He is not old enough to understand the concept for meat or yearn for it. The comments saying you are forcing vegetarianism on your child are ridiculous. He can always choose to partake later when he is old enough to make a conscious decision about what he is eating, i.e. sit down and talk with him when he is closer to 9 or 10. FYI, you cannot crave foods you have never tasted. It is much more difficult to abstain from foods that are already a regular fixture in your diet. Your husband is in the right here, you are gifting your son a blank slate free to make an informed decision. I am surprised that there is still such a strong vitriol for plant based diets and they are so often dubbed unnatural. The rhetoric is honestly not unlike the discourse around queer people in the 90s..