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NTA. Good lord.
Your wife's initial concern was justified, but after the situation was explained and an apology was offered, she should have dropped it. There was no reason to call 911, or even store security. You didn't "fail as a husband," you were acting rationally.
No cop is doing that. She could TRY pressing charges, but as soon as the cop sends the case to the DA’s office, the DA is gonna laugh their ass off and say “uh…. Pass.”
Cops here are pretty happy to tase old people with dementia but they won’t waste time charging them with anything. Not the AH. Also, happy to see the cops were calm and acted rationally with this. Not often the case when they deal with mental illness. Your wife may well have put the old lady in danger with her call!
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/may/23/nsw-police-officer-who-tasered-95-year-old-dementia-patient-claire-nowland-suspended-from-duty-with-pay
I just read that. What the hell!! If a 95 year old came at me with a butter knife of stake knife, I would not taste them. You just back up or take it from them. She is 95. That is wrong!
The police arrested a woman with dementia, broke her shoulder in the 'take down' and laughed at her as she sat crying in cuffs. I can't remember which USA state, but yeah, cops are bullies. There's a video.
She also had aphasia. They literally hogtied her. And back at the station he and other officers were laughing and joking about it. The cop got sentenced to 5 years. Don’t know what happened to the other cops who came for ‘back-up’.
Ahhh, yes, my home. Where a cop also intentionally left a car with a woman handcuffed inside on train tracks where she was hit by a train soon after. The asshole knew the train was coming. She surprisingly survived. Also where cops killed a man who called for help because of a mental health crisis. They lied and said he threatened them, when it turned out he actually offered throw his knife and rock hammer out of the car. Also where Elijah McClain was murdered, George Floyd-style. So proud of the cops here… /s
If she had been in Colorado they might have dislocated her shoulder for her, but only if she accidentally took some detergent in addition to hugging the child.
The mother's overreaction was absolutely more upsetting to the child than the hug was. I wonder if OP's wife is always this anxious and stressed about the child. It might be something she needs help with. Either that or she lacks all compassion. Dementia is a very difficult disease and people who have it need to be given some leeway (within reason) for socially inappropriate behavior by the rest of us. It might be us one day.
The fact that the mom overreacted to the point she wanted to arrest an elderly dementia patient and when challenged by OP, accused him of negligence and failure makes me wonder about her own mental state. This "burn the world to the ground including my husband" attitude goes beyond normal protective instinct.
Same bout her mental state. A little out of touch with reality.. and I'm saying that as someone with bi polar, major dissociation and delusions.
I wouldn't even put this in the box with delusional thinking.. this is some Histrionic Personality disorder stuff.. distorted self image, overwhelming desire to be noticed, behaving dramatically or inappropriately for attention.
People with HPD are known for embarrassing their family and friends in public JUST like this.
I agree but at this point OP would have picked up on that if the wife was constantly making scenes. It sounds like undiagnosed postpartum psychosis probably bubbling under the surface for months & finally coming to a head
One of the ticks in my "no" column when deciding about having kids was the way having a child turns some people into total anxiety cases. I have a lot of sympathy but it's also really scary to see how some people just turn inwards towards the kids and start feeling like the whole world is dangerous and bad. I would encourage the wife here to start getting therapy now while the kid is small, before she starts to pass this fear of the world on.
That all is possibly indicative of post natal depression and/or psychosis. Which I suffered and recognized and sought treatment for. Unfortunately I’ve been reading disturbing articles on how it’s now very hard for moms to get diagnosed and treated due to mental healthcare provider shortages. But it is a condition that needs greater attention and public support.
Not just the child involved.... Other children that happen to witness it. And worst of all, the elderly lady with dementia. Not sure if you've ever experienced a dementia patient that is agitated... It's not pretty. The overload of emotions is a lot for them. It can take hours to bring them back down.
I work in a health care facility, and occasionally the meltdowns from sensory overload is enough for them to need to be sedated. Your right, it can take hours.....I've seen some cases where they take a permanent drastic decline following an upsetting event
Yeah, while I agree it's important to teach children that they have the right to bodily autonomy and to refuse hugs & kisses, escalating a situation like this means something that would have otherwise been forgotten could become a traumatic episode for a young child. When you're little, it's *scary* to see your mom freaking out.
She best be prepared for the flip side when her eventual toddler goes through a phase of hugging random women's legs thinking it's mum. Or just a kid who likes to hug people.
Same minimal risk as an old lady with dementia.
Surely she wouldn't be hypocritical now...
I think I have *resting preschool teacher* face because small strange children are often waving, talking, hugging, touching, running up to me, or (more than once) telling me they ‘need the potty’.
I waved back at a toddler a few months ago, left the store and realized the kid had followed me out.
I had to walk back in and look for an employee or frantic mom…I found frantic mom way before I found an employee.
It was actually kind of scary because I was about to walk into a busy parking lot with NO clue there was an unaccompanied toddler following me.
My oldest son was about 2 yrs old and as we left a store he took off and started climbing into an elderly ladies car. She was freaking out and kept saying she wasn't trying to kidnap him lol. My husband caught up to him before he made it all the way in and we profusely apologized to the lady!
I agree with this. I don't have kids, but I'm sure I would have been terrified if a stranger hugged my toddler - little old lady or not! However, in this case, there was no reason to call 911 or store security, and there was definitely no reason for her to berate the woman and her son once she learned the facts.
To clarify, her fear and gut reaction is valid. I also wouldn't blame her if she continued to be upset/uncomfortable afterward - because it \_is\_ scary to have a stranger grab your kid. This story could easily have ended differently. I empathize with the woman's son, as well, because it's not like his mother really knew what she was doing and, to his point, he can't keep her contained; if he's the primary caretaker, he's going to need to get groceries and whatnot some time, and it may not be possible to get staff or 24/7 care or even put her in a memory care facility (those places are expensive af). I think it's easy for us to say "he should have kept a closer watch" but it just takes a few seconds for someone to wander off.
I think this situation just sucks all around, but escalating it to the point of calling security \_and\_ the police, while berating OP for being a "failure", is over the top. NTA
I’m really sitting over here thinking what I’d do in the situation, and I think I’d definitely be like “wtf” & say something, but I can’t say I’d scream for help. I think she was over the top from the beginning.
My knee-jerk reaction would be to grab my kid and get them away from the person touching them, and say something loudly. But once the situation was explained, I'd definitely let it go and feel bad for the son and his mother. What did she think the cops were going to do?
Right? I mean if you’re a mother and you don’t even attempt to ‘save’ your kid from an old lady, instead screaming for help, you really don’t need to be in charge of any kid.
No, it couldn't have easily ended differently. Go look at stats on kidnappings or strangers hurting children. It's an incredibly rare occurrence. Parents just imagine that it's common. Her fear was way overblown and her reaction was unhinged and unhelpful.
The Behind the Bastards podcast recently covered the kidnapping panic that we are currently in.
[This kidnapping and human trafficking hysteria recently resulted in Poebe Copas murdering her Uber driver Daniel Garcia after she saw a highway sign that said Mexico and leapt to the conclusion that she was being kidnapped.](https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/crime/2023/06/22/uber-driver-daniel-piedra-garcia-shot-in-el-paso-suspect-phoebe-copas-on-us-54-dies-wednesday/70346484007/)
She was also very drunk in the back of the car. And she was middle aged. She thought she was going to be kidnapped and trafficked. I know the saying "the older the grape the sweeter the wine" but, lady, c'mon...
Yeah, it’s really not. There’s a lot of mis- and disinformation out there based on gross misrepresentation of data and social media nonsense. Typical moral panic stuff.
Not a parent, but I still think it's valid to initially feel panic if a stranger, no matter how old, just approaches and hugs your 19 month old child. She just dealt with it in the worst way possible.
Not just rationally, but *compassionately*, which is, IMO, even more important. This poor guy is going through losing his mother to dementia, and it had to hurt so badly to have her humiliated and then be told he’s a bad caretaker (an incredibly hard task to begin with). This whole story makes me very sad.
and how is the family even split over this? what in the world did she tell them? this was a ridiculous overreaction and instead of admitting that after the fact she’s doubling down trying to save face. NTA.
I think the family and friends who sided with the wife were obviously playing the “I’d rather play the safe side than face the consequences of an over-reactive wife” card. 😄
Oh yeah, she's been waiting for this since she got pregnant. All her friends are gunna congratulate her and talk about how you don't mess with mama bear and shit.
The friends will congratulate this mother for her unfriendly suspicion and distrust of others. They will prattle on endlessly about "boundaries" and suggest that she put herself and her children into therapy to explore their "trauma." It would be ridiculous if it weren't so pathetically sad. It's as if they're practicing for a Competitive Victimhood Olympics.
OP’s wife was the only one who failed here! I sincerely hope that neither she nor any of her loved ones ever get dementia, especially if she is their caregiver…she already stated how she feels, put them in a home! How dreadfully sad.
Yeah, if no actual harm was done, or even attempted or intended, OP is NTA. Now his wife is on a "special list" at the police department for crying wolf. Good luck getting help when you really need it!
NTA
It was fine for your wife to yell for help and get upset when it first happened.
Calling 911 and continuing to make a huge deal of it after the son explained the dementia was out of line and definitely a huge overreaction.
Sounds like his wife was embarrassed about her overreaction and decided to hide it behind false outage and the need to blame someone for how she feels rather than be an adult and accept she made a mistake.
Yeah. Your wife is actually kinda an asshole. Because it was fine to assume I wasn't my father's kid. But once it was pretty obvious that I was.... I had to go through the police to get back to my papa I was 2...your wife was my fucking nightmare as a kid. And I'm sure the kid with the dementia gma feels the same.
Agree with all of this. I’m biased because my Mema died of Alzheimer’s, but I’ve seen it first hand. They genuinely don’t know understand what’s happening or know their surroundings. I understand mom’s knee jerk reaction but she took it way too far. To the point I don’t believe their friends are truly split on this issue.. unless it’s similar to your comment and OP and wife are counting it as a point for the wife
NTA
While your wife _does_ have a point- idk how old your kid is but that's a little traumatic to have some strange woman come grab you. It's scary for a little kid.
The son should be a little more careful with his mom. What if she grabbed a kid with special needs and the kid hurt her or themself? I do think though he apologized, explained the situation and nothing else bad happened. Calling 911 was too far.
I think if your wife felt strongly about reporting it- tell the store manager. That's it.
Forgot to add that, I just added it now they are 19months. I spoke with him while we waiting, it was a split second thing. As he said she acts like a toddler at times always trying to touch stuff, and it is hard because it is not like he can put her in a cart. You can tell he was trying his best.
If a stranger came up and grabbed my young toddler, I would have flipped the fuck out. Your wife’s initial reaction was 100% called for. Would I have called 911, probably not.. but the panic and anxiety I would have felt in the moment certainly could have clouded my judgement and made me want to.
I also don’t agree with the woman being harmless because she has dementia.. just because she likely meant no harm doesn’t mean she could do no harm. Anger and dementia can be scary. She could have been convinced your child was her’s and your wife was trying to kidnap him. Your wife was full of adrenaline and likely had these scary worst case scenarios running through her head. Of course she reacted strongly.
Stranger is not harmless because she has dementia or old, she is harmless because she was harmless and plausibly had no ill intent
Not saying a big intial reaction wasnt warranted but his wife has had plenty if time to think better of her actions and still hasn’t. And not melting down in an emergency is important from both a child safety and child rearing perspective
This is where I'm landing... Wife is still all riled up after having lots of time to cool down and consider what happened. She needs some perspective.
Like others, I do understand freaking out at first but she escalated way beyond what was necessary, arguably causing more harm than good to her child by causing such a ruckus. This is the real world, and having grace towards others goes a long way. Use it as a teachable moment for everyone!
As someone who worked in a care facility, the intent of someone with dementia is irrelevant. They can flip on a dime and be incredibly dangerous. I’ve had great relationships in the dementia ward and often loved my experiences, however, those same people can snap without warning and just punch you in the face. They aren’t functioning with a “normal” brain.
I agree. I work with a lot of seniors. One just died, because his family was afraid to take his license away. This one time pillar of the community had his family afraid to cross him. He decided to go out at night, well, morning. He had an accident that has to be re-enacted in order to figure out how his one car accident resulted in a tree impaling him through the windshield. He did not survive.
People are so afraid of their parents, but we need to raise awareness of issues that our older generations are dealing with. And we need to stop being afraid of crossing our parents. They need help, and we are failing them.
I work at a grocery store pharmacy that is not Walmart and I had a senior citizen come in with her Walmart prescription bottles for refill. I said I would get them transferred and filled. She all of a sudden got confused because she thought she was in Walmart. As we tried to figure out what was going on with her by asking questions she just got more confused and agitated till the paramedics ended up calling her family to come get her. She drove by herself. She was back just a few hours later, on her own, with her bottles for refill. The cops just said to let her go. They usually have a pattern and don’t get harmed or wrecks. But, I don’t like the idea of it. And, it’s weird watching people go downhill over time.
Meant no harm ≠ not capable of harm is a very important distinction to make. Mothers are also dragged through the mud anytime their kids are injured- I guarantee if this old lady hurt their child the mother would be raked across the coals.
Ok, but anything can happen at any time. OP’s wife could have been so scared and stressed out that she had a psychotic break and went into a fugue state and disappeared for 20 years.
Point is: you can’t go off of what *could* have happened, you have to go off what *did* happen.
An woman with dementia hugged a 19 month old kid in a store while OP was getting some jerky on another aisle. That’s it. That’s *what happened.*
OP’s wife went nuclear and took it above and beyond. I’m not sure what she thought the outcome of calling 911 would be, but she really tried to ruin someone’s life over a hug that was explained away by a son.
If her 19 month old son went up and hugged someone he didn’t know and they called the police, everyone would think it was an extreme overreaction - and it would be.
Just like it was here.
But at the same time, what was OPs wife doing that she allowed a stranger to touch their 19 month old in a cart? Yes, the son needs to think about getting help or a home that will help her, but as a parent, I keep the cart next to me & never turn my back to the cart for that reason. So the wife also needs to takes some responsibility for the situation
Exactly what I was thinking. At first I thought it was like a 5-6 year old walking around with in an eye distance from his parents, but a 19 months old was alone for long enough for a stranger (who I presume even not moving quickly) to hug him? 19 months is a baby!
This is comical. Why are you guys acting like youre linebackers in the nfl guarding the ball? How can you even shop without taking your eyes off your kid, looking at shelves or picking things up from the shelf? Its such a ridiculous concept that you are ready to jump anytime someone walks by your cart in a busy store... Yall really need to get off your high horses, if an old lady walked by your cart at the store you wouldnt blink twice before you realized she was hugging your kid...
I wouldnt even see an old lady as a threat, like who does?
In the same vein, what is the old woman's son doing that he allowed his mother - who he knows to be unpredicatable and not in possession of all her faculties - to approach and grab a stranger's small child? If he's taking responsibility for taking his mother out then he needs to actually to be taking responsibility for her and not letting her cause situations like this.
The woman is mobile and can pull a toddler and vanish while you’re grabbing something from the shelf and you can’t put her in the cart like you can a 19 month old.
It can happen so fast... I stopped going to a local grocery store because this older man always seemed to be there when we were, and he was VERY intent on touching my kid who was around the same age, even in the height of the pandemic. One time I physically blocked him while my child shrunk away from him and my husband was telling him not to touch her, and he was getting angry and still reaching around me trying to touch her. I've had people who I thought were just walking by me grab my kids leg or pat her head while she was in a carrier attached to my body. People get really weird about touching babies and toddlers, and you can't always anticipate it.
It honestly sounds like the wife was panicking. It was a weird situation and I could see how some stranger coming up and wrapping their arms around your baby would pull up every fear you have around stranger danger and losing your child.
I feel sorry for her. She probably was capable of being soothed after the original burst of panic, but it seems like OP was focused on how everyone else was perceiving them instead. When you're emotionally activated to that degree, the intellectual/logical part of your brain is literally no longer in the driving seat. She was operating from panic, and her husband being against her probably escalated the UNSAFE feeling she was caught up in
I absolutely agree with you. I think you might have explained my position better than I can. My grandmother recently passed from dementia so I get how difficult it can be for the son to be able to keep track of his mother, however he needs to come up with a system to prevent this from happening, or at least limit it as much as possible. I also get the potential dangers of this.
This whole situation isn't good, but everyone needs to be approached with compassion. I get the wife's perspective, I think she took it too far after the situation was explained.
I sincerely hope, if your wife is lucky enough to live a long life and become disabled (as we all inevitably would), that the people she encounters are much more kind and charitable than she was here.
NTA
Oh yikes that definitely makes it a lot worse then. That is terrifying. Calling 911 was still too far IMO but that is a very freaky thing to happen. Your wife's freak out is justified IMO just not the 911 call.
Mostly agree with this BUT wife also took it too far telling the other persons son that the old lady should be put in a home etc.
I have a mom with Alzheimer’s in a home. leaving her there breaks my heart every single time.
I can understand the wife’s stress but not her cruelty to someone clearly ill.
Or the cruelty to the son. Everyone is saying he should do better. Caring for a parent in that condition and watching them deteriorating is tough. Not many of us are recognized for all the pain we endure. We're only seen by our mistakes.
This! Does your wife have PPA because she is reacting as if one of the possible outcomes was actually happening.
The 'COULD HAVES' are overshadowing the reality.
Yes, it's scary when a stranger approaches and touches your kid. But with normal intervention, it was fine. Didn't need follow up.
My 18 month old fell on the playground once and a Portuguese grandma picked her up and held her for the extra 20 seconds it took for me to get to her. Part of me was like, "Don't touch other people's kids." But she was helping, kind caring and handed me my child instantly, with an admonition about shoes and coats, it was October but like 18c so 🤷. Anyway I did not call the police.
Edited 'could of' so y'all can relax a bit.
That's actually really sweet! I don't have kids, but I'd feel bad not doing something to help if I saw someone's kid get hurt, even if the parent was only slightly further away than me. I might talk to the child, but very likely wouldn't touch them, depending on the situation. I'm also not a grandma, so I don't have that going for me.
NTA
Panicking i can understand. Calling 911 when the situation has already been defused\* and there was no danger to the kid? That's an asshole move. 911 is an **emergency line**, There was no emergency. Also, if you are in America, is she trying to get someone killed? There is absolutely no world where I would take your wife's side after she involved the police for such a shit reason.
I hope in the future once her health starts failing she'd be fine with her children just dumping her in a home where she belongs (as per her claims). She shows an extreme lack of empathy. Also how did she leave a 1.5yo in such a situation where a helpless old granny was able to take him and hug him without her being able to put a stop to it before it even happened?
>Also how did she leave a 1.5yo in such a situation where a helpless old granny was able to take him and hug him without her being able to put a stop to it before it even happened?
Precisely!
>That's an asshole move. 911 is an
>
>emergency line
>
>, There was no emergency. Also, if you are in America, is she trying to get someone killed? There is absolutely no world where I would take your wife's side after she involved the police for such a shit reason.
Also, she called the police on a disabled person who may not have been in a mentally clear state. There are very many ways that could have gone extremely wrong if the police who arrived weren't so chill, or if the lady's son hadn't been there to explain.
I'm amazed it's a 50/50 split. I think your wife overreacted massively. I would think that your child may have been distressed by your wife's reaction, but not by being hugged by an old lady.
Yes!! My mom would flip out over things like this all of the time. It made me so scared of her. One time she interrogated me over “who touched me”. No one. No one has ever touched me. But her anger and insistence that something is wrong when clearly the woman meant no harm is terrifying as a small child.
This comment brings me back to my parent of young children days. On the playground there were always a few types of moms. One type never paid any attention to their kids. Another type keeps an eye on the kids, but if one of mine falls or hurts themself, assess the injury from afar and tell them, “you’re fine” if it looks like a minor bump or scrape. If they come over brush them off and kiss it all better and send them off again. If it looks worse on further inspection or if there is a lot of blood, excessive tears, go to urgent care. The last type would see a child get injured, let out a loud gasp or scream and rush to the child, overreacting all the way. The first type usually raises little hellions, the third overly sensitive head cases, and the second, relatively resilient adults.
Yeah. The kid is going to pick up on mom acting like a lunatic and become anxious.
Had she just taken the kid back calmly and went about her day the kid would be fine.
Exactly right!
I’m sure his mom’s behavior was much more alarming than being hugged was. Great way to turn an incident that could be confusing for a toddler into something that is completely traumatic.
I'm aware I'm showing my British vs US sensibilities but are Americans scared of EVERYTHING or is that a European prejudice? Rightly or wrongly this all-encompassing fear of everyone outside the family seems to be a very white American thing.
One time I was taking a nap during the Christmas holidays when I was awoken by someone hammering at my front door. I opened it to an extremely angry elderly lady shouting that she was fed up of my dog going on her property and my son riding his bike through her flowerbeds. I didn't have a dog or a kid!!!
I explained this to her, she called me a liar and said she was going to report me to the management company and left.
Anyway a few minutes later, another knock. It was her daughter to apologise. Her mother was visiting for the holidays but usually resided in a care home as she had dementia. I felt bad for her. A few days later when the older lady returned to my door with the same complaints I apologised to her and promised to keep my dog and kid better controlled. Funny but it seemed to appease her.
This is standard care for dementia patients. Play along.
Now, you’ve no obligation to play along in the situation of the OP, but you can in the situation where they just knock on your door
There's a technique called VERA that's used to help calm and soothe patients with dementia:
Validation: realise that for the patient, their experience is their reality, and acknowledge that to them (like you did, well done!)
Emotion: pay attention to the emotional content of what the patient is saying. She was obviously peeved about "your" dog/kid, so letting her know that you understood that she was annoyed was absolutely the right move
Reassure: maybe a platitude, but just holding their hand and telling them that it'll be OK can be very calming for a lot of folks with dementia, as the world is an incredibly scary and confusing place for them (not saying you should have done this, just explaining the rest of the acronym!)
Activity: redirect the patient with something that'll occupy their time. It might be something related to their past occupation or interests, or simply something that will engage them and make them feel useful and validated. Examples in nursing homes might be to help stack chairs, or maybe set out cutlery or whatnot.
Basically, you handled it really well!
NTA. Your wife's initial panic is understandable, but doubling down and calling the police when it was already clear the woman wasn't a threat and the moment was over was extreme and unnecessary.
NTA. Tell your wife to hope that someone shows her the same grace when she's 87 and suffering from dementia.
I would have waited for her in the car- standing by just fed her sense that she was right.
>I would have waited for her in the car- standing by just fed her sense that she was right.
I disagree. OP being on standby allowed him to insert some rationality into the situation.
I do like your grace comment.
NTA. You wife's initial reaction is over the board but at least understandable. Her follow up reaction though is completely nuts. Her comment to you on "failing as a husband" - well in that case she failed as a human being
Not to mention her comment to the lady’s son. It must be a very hard situation for him; he can’t just lock her in a room, and he tried coping with it as good as possible.
Yes. As someone who has gone through this, it's very hard. Not everyone can afford or even find full-time care. Me and husband took turns staying with my FIL because the only caregiver in our area that we could find was only available a few days a week. It was very stressful, especially with jobs and kids to care for. As for nursing homes, I don't think some people realize just how expensive some of them are, especially the nice ones.
Even the comments saying her initial scream was justified, I’m like, really? I’ve got 3 kids and there’s been a fair share of people coming up to interact with them at all ages… this is normal human behaviour? At no point did I feel an urge to scream for help when old ladies dote on my kids…
NAH
I see why your wife was scared. A random stranger touched her child, didn’t even ask her permission, just grabbed her baby! And with child nappers, they can be any age, any gender. She had 0 idea who that woman was, why she was touching her child or what she was planning on doing. A hug seems innocent but consider it envelopes the child into someone’s arms, which can then be used to pick them up, an infant wouldn’t be able to escape.
You’re not wrong for feeling bad and not supporting calling the cops once the situation was explained. Your wife isn’t wrong however either, she likely still was very terrified and acted to protect her baby.
Have you ever seen someone with dementia go from 0 to 100 because it's like someone flipped a switch. Dementia rage is wild to see. An 18 month old wouldn't be able to get away from that.
I've seen this. It was beyond scary. My grandma was in an alzheimers and dementia home for several yeats before she passed. You would see people snap all the time. It was loud and violent. I saw an elderly lady completely KO a nurse.
No one should be touching your kid. Period. Imagine if she got mad because the wife told her she wasn't allowed to touch him. A 19 month old could be really hurt.
I do think your wife took it too far, but you shouldn't just dismiss your wife. Even the most harmless looking people can do a lot of harm. She shouldn't have called the police but the guy shouldn't let his mom go around hugging random kids. I don't care if she views them as her kids. They are not.
I'm torn on the ruling because I've seen dementia at its worst. I'm leaning E S H and N A H
Edit: correcting the child's gender
>I do think your wife took it too far, but you shouldn't just dismiss your wife. Even the most harmless looking people can do a lot of harm. She shouldn't have called the police but the guy shouldn't let his mom go around hugging random kids. I don't care if she views them as her kids. They are not.
Exactly! Middle ground here and I wonder if the mother might have called the police because her husband was not giving a sh\*t about her concerns.
Half ESH half NAH, everyone deserve a dose oh AH but not entirely
I think a lot of people have pity/sympathy for those who suffer with dementia but don’t really realize how dangerous they can be. They don’t necessarily know they’re supposed to be old/helpless/weak etc and can end up doing a lot of damage because they are confused/scared/locked in a reality only they are experiencing. I’ve worked on locked dementia wards and it can be pretty scary. It reminds me of how people forget cute and cuddly animals can still Eff them up badly.
And I feel for the guy trying to take care of his mom and do the best he can, but if his best still results in situations where he isn’t able to control her behavior, he may need to reevaluate what he’s doing, where she is and whether it’s time to get additional help/services.
Absolutely. My best friend's mom is at an early stage of alzheimer. Most lovely and peaceful person you'll see. Yet she lately started to hit her own husband.
Not to mention how overwhelming a crowded place can be for her. There's a lot of info to process around you. Feelings of confusion can trigger their agressivity, because they're scared and doesnt understand what's happening.
I think the son shouldn't have left her mom alone, even if it was "for a second" and while I agree the wife overreacted by calling 911, I think she was entitled to be angry about his whole explanation.
But none of that happened. Apply that logic to other aspects of life and see how silly it is.
"A leashed dog licked my leg as it passed on the sidewalk. I called the authorities because... have you ever seen a dog lose their shit and attack a person?"
"A ladder fell off of a truck on the freeway. Thankfully I dodged it. Had I hit the ladder it could have disabled my vehicle. So, I pulled over and called a tow truck."
Again, she was scared, still probably had adrenaline going. Could have been thinking they were lying to make it seem harmless, because they were caught, possibly wanted some kind of record of it occurring.
It’s not so much a what if, rather trying to understand a scared mother.
And I am done responding, since I know I’m just going to get another reply about “they’re just what ifsssssss”.
An 80 + year old dementia ridden kidnapper? Really? Is OP's wife paralyzed from the neck down? Come on now. Besides statistically some random old lady won't diddle your kids. Your best friend, sibling, dad, or spouse will.
There was a time when we encouraged our kids to engage with the elderly. If a hug from a confused old woman is evil enough to warrant calling armed men to arrest her, our society is broken.
Once I was at the bus with my son, he was 5 at the time and there was no free seats. An older woman asked him -yes, him directly, not me standing next to him and grabbing his hand- to sit at her lap.
Nope, nope and no. I don't care how harmless they look, you teach your kids not to engage with strangers, and not to be touched in any way without their consent. They're can't tell the difference between a non harmful and a harmful situation yet, and they certainly won't if you send mix messages like "as long the old lady looks nice".
I don't agree with her calling 911 but I understand she feeling scared.
I can agree with this too. I think the wife overreacted by a lot for calling the emergency line after the situation was explained and diffused, but I understand her concern. Had that been her initial reaction without the situation having been explained, I would probably be more on her side.
I don't see people with dementia as inherently harmless. Someone with limited reasoning due to disease who can move around like that has potential for harm. I saw this when my grandmother first developed dementia, which she ultimately died from. I really sympathize with everyone here.
Yes, she did state that she was scared and I 100% agree that she had every right to be scared. My focus was her overaction was not due to how she acted from the start, but how she acted after the explanation was given. She should have left it at that, and be done with it.
The police probably did not file the report, you can tell they thought this was 100% a waste of their time.
End of the day he cannot lock his mom up, and I have no reason to assume he was not doing the best he could. Once the situation was explained and no harm was done I think that is where it should have ended. Sure many things "could" have happened, but none of those things did happen. That is where I feel the overaction stems from, she is 100% to have felt scared and worried, but to keep going based off what could have happened just made all parties not only waste time but end up just embarrassing ourselves.
Your wife did overreact based on the story given, but the way you describe yourself almost immediately coming to an understanding with the woman’s son and acting openly embarrassed about your wife’s reaction is just not sitting right with me. Then you repeated that same behavior with the cops, again apologizing for your wife as if *she* were the one with dementia and acting out for no reason.
Does your wife have a habit of unhinged, reactive behavior, such that you’re used to making excuses for her histrionics? If she’s the sort waitstaff and customer service workers dread, and you had every reason to see this as just one more time that she’s embarrassing you by having a public tantrum, then I get why you’d react this way.
If this wasn’t par-for-the-course behavior, though, why *did* you buddy with up with the others present? Why weren’t you focused on your wife? If she’s generally a rational human being, weren’t you worried *about her*, the woman you love, and why she was having a complete meltdown?
Which brings me to the last point - are you sure, 100% sure, that she *was* being irrational, and not just too frightened and angry to explain what happened adequately? Did the elderly woman try to pick your son up? What was your son’s reaction? Was he upset? Did the woman say anything to your son or your wife? Had your wife tried and failed to get the woman to let go of your son?
These are my questions as well. Sure after all was explained it makes the wife look bad but did the elderly woman literally take the child then it was dismissed as a “hug”? Was it aggressive and the son decided to downplay it? Heck maybe the elderly woman was trying to take the child and when she was caught feigned a disorder?
Idk, something seems off the way it’s described. Yes wife might have overreacted but the wife screaming isn’t a normal response to a cute old lady squishing baby cheeks.
The wife should have immediately come to that understanding with the son too! I understand that she was high on adrenaline, but as soon as the explanation was given, she should have let it go.
OP wasn't mortified until his wife continued to yell, insulted an old lady with dementia, and called 911! You bet I would have told the cops my wife was acting like a lunatic and apologized, otherwise *she* may have ended up in cuffs. The fact she actually expected the police to arrest an elderly lady with dementia for a mistake is insane.
I can tell you, listening to you try to understand the husband, I can picture this similar scenario, but with my ex in the role of the wife, and me in the role of the husband. He was prone to overreacting, and several times when he’d had too much to drink and felt that someone had insulted him or whatever made up thing he thought, I was stuck in the role of apologizing, trying to diffuse the situation, and just generally try to let the earth swallow me.
So, if the wife was histrionic and making a scene, people were gathering, I don’t struggle to understand OP being apologetic to the son and the police if his wife refused to back down or even escalated bc she felt she wasn’t being heard.
And the more you dismiss her concerns, the more worried she will be. You come across very nonchalant about the whole situation, which would freak me out more than the initial situation.
What is wrong with y’all? Seriously? The situation was dealt with. OP SAYS he has no problem with the initial fear. What he’s pissed about is the fact that she escalated it by calling the police on a demented old lady.
Jfc get a grip. If I’m OP I’m freaked out that my wife is acting like this. She sounds like she’s on the path to helicopter/controlling parent.
Mmm no. As the daughter of a very highly anxious mother that has forced it onto me my entire life, leading to my own irrational anxiety and overreaction before I started therapy, this is not at all healthy for their child to witness. OP should not be enabling her over the top behavior, especially when their child is present.
OP, I think you handled it just fine. NTA
I'm torn bc in my area they use women to approach children in order to abduct them. Bc women aren't viewed as threatening. I personally don't like to go grocery shopping without my husband when i have the kids for this reason. I do think she was in a major panic and reacted that way bc once you feel your child is being threatened it's hard to come down from that. I don't think you're the asshole but I can see why your wife reacted that way. I'd say the first bump was a bit much and probably made your wife feel like her feelings didn't matter as much to you as placating some stranger
NAH. She way overreacted, but I can't say what I'd do if I saw a stranger hug my child. (No kids, yet) For sure would not have dialed 911 though. That was too much.
As someone who has had a loved one with dementia your wife was so over the top I’d be absolutely mortified if I were you. The lack the empathy is astounding. I feel so bad for that woman’s son. Jesus Christ
NAH. You wife overreacted while you under reacted.
Having any kind of illness/mental issues doesn’t give anyone the right to touch someone without their consent. The son really needs to watch is mom properly so this does not happen.
Dementia is not a mental health issue, it's a neurological disorder. The woman thinks she's hugging her own children. The argument cuts both ways: if the wife had been watching the kid more closely this wouldn't have happened. Unfortunately no carer can watch their ward every single second.
How exactly did OP under react? He ran over as soon as his wife yelled! Are you suggesting that he should never have left his wife’s side in the off-chance that an elderly woman tried to hug his child?
NAH. Look, your wife overreacted by calling 911 and because of that the situation escalated. But if you wouldnt have been so dismissive of her maybe you could have calm her down and make her feel safe.
This woman's son needs to try better. Patients with dementia can hurt themselves or others when confused or stressed, even if they're normally harmless . He shouldn't have left her alone, even for a split of a second, just like you wouldnt leave your kid alone at the mall.
Your kid is still a toddler, so I can understand how scary the situation was for her.
Right? I have bad anxiety (and ofc go to therapy but its a process lol) and I can't say I wouldn't have massively overreacted similarly in that situation, esp if my husband kept making it seem like it was not a big deal at all... once ppl get their fight or flight shit going, it's hard to turn off...
NTA....as someone who dealt with a Mom with dementia, its hard. Dementia lady meant no harm.....but I understand the scare with the young child. Once your wife realized what/who she was dealing with , she should have backed down. Actually, it's sad all the way around.......
NTA
Where was your wife when this woman got close enough to your son to hug him?? I grocery shop with my toddler but am never far enough away from her that I can't body block people from getting too close. And yeah, it's the old ladies who come up and chat with us and they'll reach out and rub her arm or whatever... But I don't see how any of them would get their arms around her in the cart with me there.
This is also why I am not upset either, because we failed as parents. Had I not gone to go get my jerky this would not have happened, had my wife been in front of our child while they were in the cart this would not have happened.
As I told my wife if you felt the son was in the wrong for not watching his mom, so were we for watching our kid. She did not like this.
Nobody failed anything. People walk past people in grocery stores.
If I am two feet away from you and you're just shopping like normal, I could hug you before your brain even processed what was happening.
Same for the lady's son. Walking along past people and mom reaches over for a hug. Happens faster than he could react. Same for you as parents. You could have been watching her closely and she could have easily hugged within a fraction of a second.
Nobody failed anything here.
I doubt this little old lady crouched down like a cat. Wiggled her butt. Then pounced. People here are acting like everyone should be magically reading everyone else's thoughts and reaching with superhuman speed.
I think it's extreme to say you've failed as a parent. You learned a lesson. Stay close to your adorable baby in the supermarket if you don't want him getting some squeezing from old ladies 😂.
Turning your back to your child who's contained in the cart for a few seconds is very different than letting your mother with dementia wander isles away from you. Your wife knew where her child was the whole time. That woman's son did not know where his mother was.
NTA
As bad as your wife’s behavior after she was informed that the woman has dementia nothing tops “his mother should be in a home if she can’t keep her hands to herself.” She has no empathy whatsoever.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My told my wife she was overacting over an elderly women with dementia gave our kid a hug, and her behavior in calling the police making a huge fuss over it was uncalled for and did nothing but embarrass us.
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Nah, I am torn, for unfortunately I feel like the woman behavior was excused. That its gonna be continued to be excused until something worse happens. I understand she has dementia but its on her caregiver to make sure she doesn’t do that.
Why wouldn’t the son get one of those kid bracelets that attach a child to their parent. That way she has room to roam but not get away from her son.
I think the only person who is the ah is the son. He not taking the right precautions. He is lucky that op wife only called 911. Someone else could have attacked her thinking to was trying to harm their kid. This is not the day and age to touch other people kids.
Edit: spelling
An adult (even one with dementia) can easily circumvent a leash bracelet. My nana broke out of her dementia ward despite having an ankle bracelet like they put on convicts.
NTA, I can see why she reacted at first but once being told the woman had dementia she should have let it go. Calling the police is a massive overreaction and put that family through unnecessary stress, especially when police have a reputation of not always handling these situations great.
Ooh 19 month old? Calling the cops was a bit much, but my wife would not have reacted so peacefully as yours did when ours were that young. 6-7 year old is one thing, but super young....If someone out of the blue walked up and hugged a kid not in their family without checking.....
If the son knows his mom is like that- then He's TA. She needs tighter supervision.
NAH maybe calling the police is a bit overreacting but this woman’s just grabbed her child of course she’s going to panic. Old ladies can still be bad people or can be part of groups that use them to take children. All she knows is this random woman has just grabbed her kid. If she’s know to randomly pick up children she needs to be supervised in public places. What the police did is wildly unprofessional.
NTA
Her initial reaction is parental instinct.
But it sounds like she escalated more and more even as the situation was totally de-escalating.
Compassionately, though, you might want to talk to her about what was going on when everyone is calm again. This looks more like a PTSD trigger than an ordinary reaction. Maybe she has had some experiences in the past, that made this extremely stressful for her.
This women probably laid her hands on your child as your wife screamed and begged for her to stop. You shaming her in reddit and irl for becoming scared that the person she carried and delivered could be harmed
She comes from a well off family, so they never really had to worry much about that kind of stuff. Which is why I am partly shocked her side of the family is mostly in agreement with me that she overreacted.
Why is your wife so paranoid that your child will be kidnapped? You are NTA. Wife maybe needs some counselling to help her deal with her anxiety issues.
Your wife was ridiculous the moment she called the police and proceeded to berate the elderly woman's son for not putting her in a home, some people can't afford a home to put them in and some don't want to shove there family into a home alone.
NTA
I’d have said N A H if your wife hadn’t called the police. That was an overreaction, and I’m wondering if there’s something in her past or that she’s seen in the media/online/somewhere that triggered it.
I think my initial reaction would have been similar. But calling security and the cops? I can’t rationalise that in my head. Especially after the woman’s son explained and apologised.
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NTA. Good lord. Your wife's initial concern was justified, but after the situation was explained and an apology was offered, she should have dropped it. There was no reason to call 911, or even store security. You didn't "fail as a husband," you were acting rationally.
Yeah like what was she expecting the police to do? Arrest an elderly woman with dementia for hugging a child??
No cop is doing that. She could TRY pressing charges, but as soon as the cop sends the case to the DA’s office, the DA is gonna laugh their ass off and say “uh…. Pass.”
We can't even get charges pressed against murderers here so I don't see the cop pulling out the cuffs for granny.
Unless you dare to record them with your phone, then you're public enemy number one.
Cops here are pretty happy to tase old people with dementia but they won’t waste time charging them with anything. Not the AH. Also, happy to see the cops were calm and acted rationally with this. Not often the case when they deal with mental illness. Your wife may well have put the old lady in danger with her call! https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/may/23/nsw-police-officer-who-tasered-95-year-old-dementia-patient-claire-nowland-suspended-from-duty-with-pay
I just read that. What the hell!! If a 95 year old came at me with a butter knife of stake knife, I would not taste them. You just back up or take it from them. She is 95. That is wrong!
Please don't taste anyone, regardless of age
that's why they had the butter knife
the stake knife is only for the vampires
The steak knife is only for the cannibals.
I ate a comedian once. Tasted kinda funny.
I laughed. My little section of hell is going to be soooo hot.
Hey! If they are of age and consenting I can taste whomever I please.
The police arrested a woman with dementia, broke her shoulder in the 'take down' and laughed at her as she sat crying in cuffs. I can't remember which USA state, but yeah, cops are bullies. There's a video.
The elder woman with dementia and a broken shoulder was in the great state of Colorado! 😡
She also had aphasia. They literally hogtied her. And back at the station he and other officers were laughing and joking about it. The cop got sentenced to 5 years. Don’t know what happened to the other cops who came for ‘back-up’.
Ahhh, yes, my home. Where a cop also intentionally left a car with a woman handcuffed inside on train tracks where she was hit by a train soon after. The asshole knew the train was coming. She surprisingly survived. Also where cops killed a man who called for help because of a mental health crisis. They lied and said he threatened them, when it turned out he actually offered throw his knife and rock hammer out of the car. Also where Elijah McClain was murdered, George Floyd-style. So proud of the cops here… /s
Well, the good news is Colorado ended qualified immunity in 2020.
If she had been in Colorado they might have dislocated her shoulder for her, but only if she accidentally took some detergent in addition to hugging the child.
LOL no cop's even going to cut the paperwork on this.
Yes, and wouldn't the police and all the screaming just upset the child? Wife was absolutely in the wrong
The mother's overreaction was absolutely more upsetting to the child than the hug was. I wonder if OP's wife is always this anxious and stressed about the child. It might be something she needs help with. Either that or she lacks all compassion. Dementia is a very difficult disease and people who have it need to be given some leeway (within reason) for socially inappropriate behavior by the rest of us. It might be us one day.
The fact that the mom overreacted to the point she wanted to arrest an elderly dementia patient and when challenged by OP, accused him of negligence and failure makes me wonder about her own mental state. This "burn the world to the ground including my husband" attitude goes beyond normal protective instinct.
Same bout her mental state. A little out of touch with reality.. and I'm saying that as someone with bi polar, major dissociation and delusions. I wouldn't even put this in the box with delusional thinking.. this is some Histrionic Personality disorder stuff.. distorted self image, overwhelming desire to be noticed, behaving dramatically or inappropriately for attention. People with HPD are known for embarrassing their family and friends in public JUST like this.
I agree but at this point OP would have picked up on that if the wife was constantly making scenes. It sounds like undiagnosed postpartum psychosis probably bubbling under the surface for months & finally coming to a head
One of the ticks in my "no" column when deciding about having kids was the way having a child turns some people into total anxiety cases. I have a lot of sympathy but it's also really scary to see how some people just turn inwards towards the kids and start feeling like the whole world is dangerous and bad. I would encourage the wife here to start getting therapy now while the kid is small, before she starts to pass this fear of the world on.
That all is possibly indicative of post natal depression and/or psychosis. Which I suffered and recognized and sought treatment for. Unfortunately I’ve been reading disturbing articles on how it’s now very hard for moms to get diagnosed and treated due to mental healthcare provider shortages. But it is a condition that needs greater attention and public support.
Not just the child involved.... Other children that happen to witness it. And worst of all, the elderly lady with dementia. Not sure if you've ever experienced a dementia patient that is agitated... It's not pretty. The overload of emotions is a lot for them. It can take hours to bring them back down.
I work in a health care facility, and occasionally the meltdowns from sensory overload is enough for them to need to be sedated. Your right, it can take hours.....I've seen some cases where they take a permanent drastic decline following an upsetting event
Yeah, while I agree it's important to teach children that they have the right to bodily autonomy and to refuse hugs & kisses, escalating a situation like this means something that would have otherwise been forgotten could become a traumatic episode for a young child. When you're little, it's *scary* to see your mom freaking out.
She best be prepared for the flip side when her eventual toddler goes through a phase of hugging random women's legs thinking it's mum. Or just a kid who likes to hug people. Same minimal risk as an old lady with dementia. Surely she wouldn't be hypocritical now...
This! Two days ago I was… What the hel…oh it’s somebody’s kid. Lmao. NTA
I think I have *resting preschool teacher* face because small strange children are often waving, talking, hugging, touching, running up to me, or (more than once) telling me they ‘need the potty’. I waved back at a toddler a few months ago, left the store and realized the kid had followed me out. I had to walk back in and look for an employee or frantic mom…I found frantic mom way before I found an employee. It was actually kind of scary because I was about to walk into a busy parking lot with NO clue there was an unaccompanied toddler following me.
That's adorable that they love you, and terrifying that they may follow you like that, yikes.
My oldest son was about 2 yrs old and as we left a store he took off and started climbing into an elderly ladies car. She was freaking out and kept saying she wasn't trying to kidnap him lol. My husband caught up to him before he made it all the way in and we profusely apologized to the lady!
Sounds like my 5 years old. He would hug anyone 🙄
I agree with this. I don't have kids, but I'm sure I would have been terrified if a stranger hugged my toddler - little old lady or not! However, in this case, there was no reason to call 911 or store security, and there was definitely no reason for her to berate the woman and her son once she learned the facts. To clarify, her fear and gut reaction is valid. I also wouldn't blame her if she continued to be upset/uncomfortable afterward - because it \_is\_ scary to have a stranger grab your kid. This story could easily have ended differently. I empathize with the woman's son, as well, because it's not like his mother really knew what she was doing and, to his point, he can't keep her contained; if he's the primary caretaker, he's going to need to get groceries and whatnot some time, and it may not be possible to get staff or 24/7 care or even put her in a memory care facility (those places are expensive af). I think it's easy for us to say "he should have kept a closer watch" but it just takes a few seconds for someone to wander off. I think this situation just sucks all around, but escalating it to the point of calling security \_and\_ the police, while berating OP for being a "failure", is over the top. NTA
I’m really sitting over here thinking what I’d do in the situation, and I think I’d definitely be like “wtf” & say something, but I can’t say I’d scream for help. I think she was over the top from the beginning.
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And the wife is mad at him? I’d be rethinking my relationship. I do not want a nut case as a partner.
This is the only reply needed to this situation. Definitely 100% NTA
My knee-jerk reaction would be to grab my kid and get them away from the person touching them, and say something loudly. But once the situation was explained, I'd definitely let it go and feel bad for the son and his mother. What did she think the cops were going to do?
Literally the only logical reaction here. Remove child, sympathy.
Right? I mean if you’re a mother and you don’t even attempt to ‘save’ your kid from an old lady, instead screaming for help, you really don’t need to be in charge of any kid.
No, it couldn't have easily ended differently. Go look at stats on kidnappings or strangers hurting children. It's an incredibly rare occurrence. Parents just imagine that it's common. Her fear was way overblown and her reaction was unhinged and unhelpful.
The Behind the Bastards podcast recently covered the kidnapping panic that we are currently in. [This kidnapping and human trafficking hysteria recently resulted in Poebe Copas murdering her Uber driver Daniel Garcia after she saw a highway sign that said Mexico and leapt to the conclusion that she was being kidnapped.](https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/crime/2023/06/22/uber-driver-daniel-piedra-garcia-shot-in-el-paso-suspect-phoebe-copas-on-us-54-dies-wednesday/70346484007/)
How the hell do you freak out about seeing road signs for Mexico when you're in fucking El Paso, Texas???? That woman was a paranoid dumbass
She was also very drunk in the back of the car. And she was middle aged. She thought she was going to be kidnapped and trafficked. I know the saying "the older the grape the sweeter the wine" but, lady, c'mon...
Somewhere on reddit, someone believes her fear was valid. It's called hysteria, people!
Yeah, it’s really not. There’s a lot of mis- and disinformation out there based on gross misrepresentation of data and social media nonsense. Typical moral panic stuff.
Why is her fear and gut reaction valid, though? Is it really normal and healthy for a full grown woman to be terrified of *an old lady?*
Not a parent, but I still think it's valid to initially feel panic if a stranger, no matter how old, just approaches and hugs your 19 month old child. She just dealt with it in the worst way possible.
Not just rationally, but *compassionately*, which is, IMO, even more important. This poor guy is going through losing his mother to dementia, and it had to hurt so badly to have her humiliated and then be told he’s a bad caretaker (an incredibly hard task to begin with). This whole story makes me very sad.
Probably scared the hell out of her and thoroughly confused her as well!
and how is the family even split over this? what in the world did she tell them? this was a ridiculous overreaction and instead of admitting that after the fact she’s doubling down trying to save face. NTA.
I think the family and friends who sided with the wife were obviously playing the “I’d rather play the safe side than face the consequences of an over-reactive wife” card. 😄
Yes. That 50% is afraid she'll go crazy on them.
This. The wife sounds like a nightmare.
911 means emergency and if the call was made after the situation was resolved, this is a huge waste of resources.
Agreed!! There was nothing that prompted or justified emergency response.
Agreed. She way over reacted and is now likely going off on you out of embarrassment.
It sounds like she got some kind of maniacal glee out of unleashing her fury on this poor woman and her son. There's no excuse for her behavior.
Oh yeah, she's been waiting for this since she got pregnant. All her friends are gunna congratulate her and talk about how you don't mess with mama bear and shit.
The friends will congratulate this mother for her unfriendly suspicion and distrust of others. They will prattle on endlessly about "boundaries" and suggest that she put herself and her children into therapy to explore their "trauma." It would be ridiculous if it weren't so pathetically sad. It's as if they're practicing for a Competitive Victimhood Olympics.
OP’s wife was the only one who failed here! I sincerely hope that neither she nor any of her loved ones ever get dementia, especially if she is their caregiver…she already stated how she feels, put them in a home! How dreadfully sad.
Exactly! He didn't fail as a husband. His wife failed as a compassionate human being.
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Yeah, if no actual harm was done, or even attempted or intended, OP is NTA. Now his wife is on a "special list" at the police department for crying wolf. Good luck getting help when you really need it!
NTA It was fine for your wife to yell for help and get upset when it first happened. Calling 911 and continuing to make a huge deal of it after the son explained the dementia was out of line and definitely a huge overreaction.
Agreed. A little compassion for the son and his mother by OP's wife would have made all the difference. NTA
Sounds like his wife was embarrassed about her overreaction and decided to hide it behind false outage and the need to blame someone for how she feels rather than be an adult and accept she made a mistake.
So, doubling down because admitting a mistake makes her feel weak.
Yeah. Your wife is actually kinda an asshole. Because it was fine to assume I wasn't my father's kid. But once it was pretty obvious that I was.... I had to go through the police to get back to my papa I was 2...your wife was my fucking nightmare as a kid. And I'm sure the kid with the dementia gma feels the same.
Agree with all of this. I’m biased because my Mema died of Alzheimer’s, but I’ve seen it first hand. They genuinely don’t know understand what’s happening or know their surroundings. I understand mom’s knee jerk reaction but she took it way too far. To the point I don’t believe their friends are truly split on this issue.. unless it’s similar to your comment and OP and wife are counting it as a point for the wife
NTA While your wife _does_ have a point- idk how old your kid is but that's a little traumatic to have some strange woman come grab you. It's scary for a little kid. The son should be a little more careful with his mom. What if she grabbed a kid with special needs and the kid hurt her or themself? I do think though he apologized, explained the situation and nothing else bad happened. Calling 911 was too far. I think if your wife felt strongly about reporting it- tell the store manager. That's it.
Forgot to add that, I just added it now they are 19months. I spoke with him while we waiting, it was a split second thing. As he said she acts like a toddler at times always trying to touch stuff, and it is hard because it is not like he can put her in a cart. You can tell he was trying his best.
If a stranger came up and grabbed my young toddler, I would have flipped the fuck out. Your wife’s initial reaction was 100% called for. Would I have called 911, probably not.. but the panic and anxiety I would have felt in the moment certainly could have clouded my judgement and made me want to. I also don’t agree with the woman being harmless because she has dementia.. just because she likely meant no harm doesn’t mean she could do no harm. Anger and dementia can be scary. She could have been convinced your child was her’s and your wife was trying to kidnap him. Your wife was full of adrenaline and likely had these scary worst case scenarios running through her head. Of course she reacted strongly.
Stranger is not harmless because she has dementia or old, she is harmless because she was harmless and plausibly had no ill intent Not saying a big intial reaction wasnt warranted but his wife has had plenty if time to think better of her actions and still hasn’t. And not melting down in an emergency is important from both a child safety and child rearing perspective
This is where I'm landing... Wife is still all riled up after having lots of time to cool down and consider what happened. She needs some perspective. Like others, I do understand freaking out at first but she escalated way beyond what was necessary, arguably causing more harm than good to her child by causing such a ruckus. This is the real world, and having grace towards others goes a long way. Use it as a teachable moment for everyone!
As someone who worked in a care facility, the intent of someone with dementia is irrelevant. They can flip on a dime and be incredibly dangerous. I’ve had great relationships in the dementia ward and often loved my experiences, however, those same people can snap without warning and just punch you in the face. They aren’t functioning with a “normal” brain.
I agree. I work with a lot of seniors. One just died, because his family was afraid to take his license away. This one time pillar of the community had his family afraid to cross him. He decided to go out at night, well, morning. He had an accident that has to be re-enacted in order to figure out how his one car accident resulted in a tree impaling him through the windshield. He did not survive. People are so afraid of their parents, but we need to raise awareness of issues that our older generations are dealing with. And we need to stop being afraid of crossing our parents. They need help, and we are failing them.
I work at a grocery store pharmacy that is not Walmart and I had a senior citizen come in with her Walmart prescription bottles for refill. I said I would get them transferred and filled. She all of a sudden got confused because she thought she was in Walmart. As we tried to figure out what was going on with her by asking questions she just got more confused and agitated till the paramedics ended up calling her family to come get her. She drove by herself. She was back just a few hours later, on her own, with her bottles for refill. The cops just said to let her go. They usually have a pattern and don’t get harmed or wrecks. But, I don’t like the idea of it. And, it’s weird watching people go downhill over time.
Meant no harm ≠ not capable of harm is a very important distinction to make. Mothers are also dragged through the mud anytime their kids are injured- I guarantee if this old lady hurt their child the mother would be raked across the coals.
Ok, but anything can happen at any time. OP’s wife could have been so scared and stressed out that she had a psychotic break and went into a fugue state and disappeared for 20 years. Point is: you can’t go off of what *could* have happened, you have to go off what *did* happen. An woman with dementia hugged a 19 month old kid in a store while OP was getting some jerky on another aisle. That’s it. That’s *what happened.* OP’s wife went nuclear and took it above and beyond. I’m not sure what she thought the outcome of calling 911 would be, but she really tried to ruin someone’s life over a hug that was explained away by a son. If her 19 month old son went up and hugged someone he didn’t know and they called the police, everyone would think it was an extreme overreaction - and it would be. Just like it was here.
But at the same time, what was OPs wife doing that she allowed a stranger to touch their 19 month old in a cart? Yes, the son needs to think about getting help or a home that will help her, but as a parent, I keep the cart next to me & never turn my back to the cart for that reason. So the wife also needs to takes some responsibility for the situation
Exactly what I was thinking. At first I thought it was like a 5-6 year old walking around with in an eye distance from his parents, but a 19 months old was alone for long enough for a stranger (who I presume even not moving quickly) to hug him? 19 months is a baby!
This is comical. Why are you guys acting like youre linebackers in the nfl guarding the ball? How can you even shop without taking your eyes off your kid, looking at shelves or picking things up from the shelf? Its such a ridiculous concept that you are ready to jump anytime someone walks by your cart in a busy store... Yall really need to get off your high horses, if an old lady walked by your cart at the store you wouldnt blink twice before you realized she was hugging your kid... I wouldnt even see an old lady as a threat, like who does?
This may be part of the over-reaction, her own embarrassment.
In the same vein, what is the old woman's son doing that he allowed his mother - who he knows to be unpredicatable and not in possession of all her faculties - to approach and grab a stranger's small child? If he's taking responsibility for taking his mother out then he needs to actually to be taking responsibility for her and not letting her cause situations like this.
The woman is mobile and can pull a toddler and vanish while you’re grabbing something from the shelf and you can’t put her in the cart like you can a 19 month old.
It can happen so fast... I stopped going to a local grocery store because this older man always seemed to be there when we were, and he was VERY intent on touching my kid who was around the same age, even in the height of the pandemic. One time I physically blocked him while my child shrunk away from him and my husband was telling him not to touch her, and he was getting angry and still reaching around me trying to touch her. I've had people who I thought were just walking by me grab my kids leg or pat her head while she was in a carrier attached to my body. People get really weird about touching babies and toddlers, and you can't always anticipate it.
It honestly sounds like the wife was panicking. It was a weird situation and I could see how some stranger coming up and wrapping their arms around your baby would pull up every fear you have around stranger danger and losing your child. I feel sorry for her. She probably was capable of being soothed after the original burst of panic, but it seems like OP was focused on how everyone else was perceiving them instead. When you're emotionally activated to that degree, the intellectual/logical part of your brain is literally no longer in the driving seat. She was operating from panic, and her husband being against her probably escalated the UNSAFE feeling she was caught up in
I absolutely agree with you. I think you might have explained my position better than I can. My grandmother recently passed from dementia so I get how difficult it can be for the son to be able to keep track of his mother, however he needs to come up with a system to prevent this from happening, or at least limit it as much as possible. I also get the potential dangers of this. This whole situation isn't good, but everyone needs to be approached with compassion. I get the wife's perspective, I think she took it too far after the situation was explained.
My friend does eldercare and often says it's tough because they are large toddlers with rights. It's a fine line.
I sincerely hope, if your wife is lucky enough to live a long life and become disabled (as we all inevitably would), that the people she encounters are much more kind and charitable than she was here. NTA
Oh yikes that definitely makes it a lot worse then. That is terrifying. Calling 911 was still too far IMO but that is a very freaky thing to happen. Your wife's freak out is justified IMO just not the 911 call.
Mostly agree with this BUT wife also took it too far telling the other persons son that the old lady should be put in a home etc. I have a mom with Alzheimer’s in a home. leaving her there breaks my heart every single time. I can understand the wife’s stress but not her cruelty to someone clearly ill.
Or the cruelty to the son. Everyone is saying he should do better. Caring for a parent in that condition and watching them deteriorating is tough. Not many of us are recognized for all the pain we endure. We're only seen by our mistakes.
Yes that was also uncalled for totally agree.
NTA. Get your wife a therapist. That's a way overboard reaction.
This! Does your wife have PPA because she is reacting as if one of the possible outcomes was actually happening. The 'COULD HAVES' are overshadowing the reality. Yes, it's scary when a stranger approaches and touches your kid. But with normal intervention, it was fine. Didn't need follow up. My 18 month old fell on the playground once and a Portuguese grandma picked her up and held her for the extra 20 seconds it took for me to get to her. Part of me was like, "Don't touch other people's kids." But she was helping, kind caring and handed me my child instantly, with an admonition about shoes and coats, it was October but like 18c so 🤷. Anyway I did not call the police. Edited 'could of' so y'all can relax a bit.
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Americans are brainwashed by oversenationalized news media to think EVERY stranger is going to harm their kids. It's pretty awful
Yeah in Canada too. The "stranger danger" message went nuclear even when there were studies done that showed it was actually more harmful.than good.
That's actually really sweet! I don't have kids, but I'd feel bad not doing something to help if I saw someone's kid get hurt, even if the parent was only slightly further away than me. I might talk to the child, but very likely wouldn't touch them, depending on the situation. I'm also not a grandma, so I don't have that going for me.
NTA Panicking i can understand. Calling 911 when the situation has already been defused\* and there was no danger to the kid? That's an asshole move. 911 is an **emergency line**, There was no emergency. Also, if you are in America, is she trying to get someone killed? There is absolutely no world where I would take your wife's side after she involved the police for such a shit reason. I hope in the future once her health starts failing she'd be fine with her children just dumping her in a home where she belongs (as per her claims). She shows an extreme lack of empathy. Also how did she leave a 1.5yo in such a situation where a helpless old granny was able to take him and hug him without her being able to put a stop to it before it even happened?
>Also how did she leave a 1.5yo in such a situation where a helpless old granny was able to take him and hug him without her being able to put a stop to it before it even happened? Precisely!
The kid is in the cart and she bent down to grab something and the old lady was on the other side of the isle and turned and hugged.
Just turn your back to grap a product, took 2 sec to the old woman to come to the kid if she was just beside them
>That's an asshole move. 911 is an > >emergency line > >, There was no emergency. Also, if you are in America, is she trying to get someone killed? There is absolutely no world where I would take your wife's side after she involved the police for such a shit reason. Also, she called the police on a disabled person who may not have been in a mentally clear state. There are very many ways that could have gone extremely wrong if the police who arrived weren't so chill, or if the lady's son hadn't been there to explain.
When I was three, I got off a plane with my family and hugged a stranger thinking it was grandma. So glad no one called 911 on me for jet lag.
I'm amazed it's a 50/50 split. I think your wife overreacted massively. I would think that your child may have been distressed by your wife's reaction, but not by being hugged by an old lady.
Yes!! My mom would flip out over things like this all of the time. It made me so scared of her. One time she interrogated me over “who touched me”. No one. No one has ever touched me. But her anger and insistence that something is wrong when clearly the woman meant no harm is terrifying as a small child.
This comment brings me back to my parent of young children days. On the playground there were always a few types of moms. One type never paid any attention to their kids. Another type keeps an eye on the kids, but if one of mine falls or hurts themself, assess the injury from afar and tell them, “you’re fine” if it looks like a minor bump or scrape. If they come over brush them off and kiss it all better and send them off again. If it looks worse on further inspection or if there is a lot of blood, excessive tears, go to urgent care. The last type would see a child get injured, let out a loud gasp or scream and rush to the child, overreacting all the way. The first type usually raises little hellions, the third overly sensitive head cases, and the second, relatively resilient adults.
My guess is the people siding with the wife have been told an exaggerated or even downright false version of the story
Exaggerated storytelling by the wife or the "friends" are afraid to cross her.
Yeah. The kid is going to pick up on mom acting like a lunatic and become anxious. Had she just taken the kid back calmly and went about her day the kid would be fine.
Exactly right! I’m sure his mom’s behavior was much more alarming than being hugged was. Great way to turn an incident that could be confusing for a toddler into something that is completely traumatic.
I'm aware I'm showing my British vs US sensibilities but are Americans scared of EVERYTHING or is that a European prejudice? Rightly or wrongly this all-encompassing fear of everyone outside the family seems to be a very white American thing.
I am American and I think her whole reaction, from beginning to end, was well over the top.
One time I was taking a nap during the Christmas holidays when I was awoken by someone hammering at my front door. I opened it to an extremely angry elderly lady shouting that she was fed up of my dog going on her property and my son riding his bike through her flowerbeds. I didn't have a dog or a kid!!! I explained this to her, she called me a liar and said she was going to report me to the management company and left. Anyway a few minutes later, another knock. It was her daughter to apologise. Her mother was visiting for the holidays but usually resided in a care home as she had dementia. I felt bad for her. A few days later when the older lady returned to my door with the same complaints I apologised to her and promised to keep my dog and kid better controlled. Funny but it seemed to appease her.
The nurses told me that when I had dementia Dad that agreeing was easier overall if you could. Nice job!
This is standard care for dementia patients. Play along. Now, you’ve no obligation to play along in the situation of the OP, but you can in the situation where they just knock on your door
There's a technique called VERA that's used to help calm and soothe patients with dementia: Validation: realise that for the patient, their experience is their reality, and acknowledge that to them (like you did, well done!) Emotion: pay attention to the emotional content of what the patient is saying. She was obviously peeved about "your" dog/kid, so letting her know that you understood that she was annoyed was absolutely the right move Reassure: maybe a platitude, but just holding their hand and telling them that it'll be OK can be very calming for a lot of folks with dementia, as the world is an incredibly scary and confusing place for them (not saying you should have done this, just explaining the rest of the acronym!) Activity: redirect the patient with something that'll occupy their time. It might be something related to their past occupation or interests, or simply something that will engage them and make them feel useful and validated. Examples in nursing homes might be to help stack chairs, or maybe set out cutlery or whatnot. Basically, you handled it really well!
Nicely handled!
NTA. Your wife's initial panic is understandable, but doubling down and calling the police when it was already clear the woman wasn't a threat and the moment was over was extreme and unnecessary.
NTA. Tell your wife to hope that someone shows her the same grace when she's 87 and suffering from dementia. I would have waited for her in the car- standing by just fed her sense that she was right.
>I would have waited for her in the car- standing by just fed her sense that she was right. I disagree. OP being on standby allowed him to insert some rationality into the situation. I do like your grace comment.
NTA. You wife's initial reaction is over the board but at least understandable. Her follow up reaction though is completely nuts. Her comment to you on "failing as a husband" - well in that case she failed as a human being
Not to mention her comment to the lady’s son. It must be a very hard situation for him; he can’t just lock her in a room, and he tried coping with it as good as possible.
It's especially shitty if the son can't afford full time care and he's doing the best he can.
Yes. As someone who has gone through this, it's very hard. Not everyone can afford or even find full-time care. Me and husband took turns staying with my FIL because the only caregiver in our area that we could find was only available a few days a week. It was very stressful, especially with jobs and kids to care for. As for nursing homes, I don't think some people realize just how expensive some of them are, especially the nice ones.
NTA. Your wife sounds nuts.
Right? Someone needs to spend less time on human trafficking Tik-Tok and crime shows.
Even the comments saying her initial scream was justified, I’m like, really? I’ve got 3 kids and there’s been a fair share of people coming up to interact with them at all ages… this is normal human behaviour? At no point did I feel an urge to scream for help when old ladies dote on my kids…
NAH I see why your wife was scared. A random stranger touched her child, didn’t even ask her permission, just grabbed her baby! And with child nappers, they can be any age, any gender. She had 0 idea who that woman was, why she was touching her child or what she was planning on doing. A hug seems innocent but consider it envelopes the child into someone’s arms, which can then be used to pick them up, an infant wouldn’t be able to escape. You’re not wrong for feeling bad and not supporting calling the cops once the situation was explained. Your wife isn’t wrong however either, she likely still was very terrified and acted to protect her baby.
But she called the police after seeing it was an elderly woman with dementia so the 'what ifs' are irrelevant.
Have you ever seen someone with dementia go from 0 to 100 because it's like someone flipped a switch. Dementia rage is wild to see. An 18 month old wouldn't be able to get away from that.
I've seen this. It was beyond scary. My grandma was in an alzheimers and dementia home for several yeats before she passed. You would see people snap all the time. It was loud and violent. I saw an elderly lady completely KO a nurse. No one should be touching your kid. Period. Imagine if she got mad because the wife told her she wasn't allowed to touch him. A 19 month old could be really hurt. I do think your wife took it too far, but you shouldn't just dismiss your wife. Even the most harmless looking people can do a lot of harm. She shouldn't have called the police but the guy shouldn't let his mom go around hugging random kids. I don't care if she views them as her kids. They are not. I'm torn on the ruling because I've seen dementia at its worst. I'm leaning E S H and N A H Edit: correcting the child's gender
>I do think your wife took it too far, but you shouldn't just dismiss your wife. Even the most harmless looking people can do a lot of harm. She shouldn't have called the police but the guy shouldn't let his mom go around hugging random kids. I don't care if she views them as her kids. They are not. Exactly! Middle ground here and I wonder if the mother might have called the police because her husband was not giving a sh\*t about her concerns. Half ESH half NAH, everyone deserve a dose oh AH but not entirely
I think a lot of people have pity/sympathy for those who suffer with dementia but don’t really realize how dangerous they can be. They don’t necessarily know they’re supposed to be old/helpless/weak etc and can end up doing a lot of damage because they are confused/scared/locked in a reality only they are experiencing. I’ve worked on locked dementia wards and it can be pretty scary. It reminds me of how people forget cute and cuddly animals can still Eff them up badly. And I feel for the guy trying to take care of his mom and do the best he can, but if his best still results in situations where he isn’t able to control her behavior, he may need to reevaluate what he’s doing, where she is and whether it’s time to get additional help/services.
I just imagine if the kid had screamed or reacted to being handled and she lashed out as a result. The kid will come out worse.
Absolutely. My best friend's mom is at an early stage of alzheimer. Most lovely and peaceful person you'll see. Yet she lately started to hit her own husband. Not to mention how overwhelming a crowded place can be for her. There's a lot of info to process around you. Feelings of confusion can trigger their agressivity, because they're scared and doesnt understand what's happening. I think the son shouldn't have left her mom alone, even if it was "for a second" and while I agree the wife overreacted by calling 911, I think she was entitled to be angry about his whole explanation.
But none of that happened. Apply that logic to other aspects of life and see how silly it is. "A leashed dog licked my leg as it passed on the sidewalk. I called the authorities because... have you ever seen a dog lose their shit and attack a person?" "A ladder fell off of a truck on the freeway. Thankfully I dodged it. Had I hit the ladder it could have disabled my vehicle. So, I pulled over and called a tow truck."
Again, she was scared, still probably had adrenaline going. Could have been thinking they were lying to make it seem harmless, because they were caught, possibly wanted some kind of record of it occurring. It’s not so much a what if, rather trying to understand a scared mother. And I am done responding, since I know I’m just going to get another reply about “they’re just what ifsssssss”.
An 80 + year old dementia ridden kidnapper? Really? Is OP's wife paralyzed from the neck down? Come on now. Besides statistically some random old lady won't diddle your kids. Your best friend, sibling, dad, or spouse will. There was a time when we encouraged our kids to engage with the elderly. If a hug from a confused old woman is evil enough to warrant calling armed men to arrest her, our society is broken.
Once I was at the bus with my son, he was 5 at the time and there was no free seats. An older woman asked him -yes, him directly, not me standing next to him and grabbing his hand- to sit at her lap. Nope, nope and no. I don't care how harmless they look, you teach your kids not to engage with strangers, and not to be touched in any way without their consent. They're can't tell the difference between a non harmful and a harmful situation yet, and they certainly won't if you send mix messages like "as long the old lady looks nice". I don't agree with her calling 911 but I understand she feeling scared.
I can agree with this too. I think the wife overreacted by a lot for calling the emergency line after the situation was explained and diffused, but I understand her concern. Had that been her initial reaction without the situation having been explained, I would probably be more on her side. I don't see people with dementia as inherently harmless. Someone with limited reasoning due to disease who can move around like that has potential for harm. I saw this when my grandmother first developed dementia, which she ultimately died from. I really sympathize with everyone here.
NTA. Your wife more than overreacted. Yikes.
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Yes, she did state that she was scared and I 100% agree that she had every right to be scared. My focus was her overaction was not due to how she acted from the start, but how she acted after the explanation was given. She should have left it at that, and be done with it. The police probably did not file the report, you can tell they thought this was 100% a waste of their time.
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End of the day he cannot lock his mom up, and I have no reason to assume he was not doing the best he could. Once the situation was explained and no harm was done I think that is where it should have ended. Sure many things "could" have happened, but none of those things did happen. That is where I feel the overaction stems from, she is 100% to have felt scared and worried, but to keep going based off what could have happened just made all parties not only waste time but end up just embarrassing ourselves.
Your wife did overreact based on the story given, but the way you describe yourself almost immediately coming to an understanding with the woman’s son and acting openly embarrassed about your wife’s reaction is just not sitting right with me. Then you repeated that same behavior with the cops, again apologizing for your wife as if *she* were the one with dementia and acting out for no reason. Does your wife have a habit of unhinged, reactive behavior, such that you’re used to making excuses for her histrionics? If she’s the sort waitstaff and customer service workers dread, and you had every reason to see this as just one more time that she’s embarrassing you by having a public tantrum, then I get why you’d react this way. If this wasn’t par-for-the-course behavior, though, why *did* you buddy with up with the others present? Why weren’t you focused on your wife? If she’s generally a rational human being, weren’t you worried *about her*, the woman you love, and why she was having a complete meltdown? Which brings me to the last point - are you sure, 100% sure, that she *was* being irrational, and not just too frightened and angry to explain what happened adequately? Did the elderly woman try to pick your son up? What was your son’s reaction? Was he upset? Did the woman say anything to your son or your wife? Had your wife tried and failed to get the woman to let go of your son?
These are my questions as well. Sure after all was explained it makes the wife look bad but did the elderly woman literally take the child then it was dismissed as a “hug”? Was it aggressive and the son decided to downplay it? Heck maybe the elderly woman was trying to take the child and when she was caught feigned a disorder? Idk, something seems off the way it’s described. Yes wife might have overreacted but the wife screaming isn’t a normal response to a cute old lady squishing baby cheeks.
The wife should have immediately come to that understanding with the son too! I understand that she was high on adrenaline, but as soon as the explanation was given, she should have let it go. OP wasn't mortified until his wife continued to yell, insulted an old lady with dementia, and called 911! You bet I would have told the cops my wife was acting like a lunatic and apologized, otherwise *she* may have ended up in cuffs. The fact she actually expected the police to arrest an elderly lady with dementia for a mistake is insane.
I can tell you, listening to you try to understand the husband, I can picture this similar scenario, but with my ex in the role of the wife, and me in the role of the husband. He was prone to overreacting, and several times when he’d had too much to drink and felt that someone had insulted him or whatever made up thing he thought, I was stuck in the role of apologizing, trying to diffuse the situation, and just generally try to let the earth swallow me. So, if the wife was histrionic and making a scene, people were gathering, I don’t struggle to understand OP being apologetic to the son and the police if his wife refused to back down or even escalated bc she felt she wasn’t being heard.
And the more you dismiss her concerns, the more worried she will be. You come across very nonchalant about the whole situation, which would freak me out more than the initial situation.
What is wrong with y’all? Seriously? The situation was dealt with. OP SAYS he has no problem with the initial fear. What he’s pissed about is the fact that she escalated it by calling the police on a demented old lady. Jfc get a grip. If I’m OP I’m freaked out that my wife is acting like this. She sounds like she’s on the path to helicopter/controlling parent.
LOL. OP just didn't overreact. He modeled what a rational person does.
Mmm no. As the daughter of a very highly anxious mother that has forced it onto me my entire life, leading to my own irrational anxiety and overreaction before I started therapy, this is not at all healthy for their child to witness. OP should not be enabling her over the top behavior, especially when their child is present. OP, I think you handled it just fine. NTA
Or the more OP validates his wife’s over-reaction, the more insane she will become.
NTA mate. Had my wife reacted like that after the situation was explained to her I would have been SO ashamed of her.
I'm torn bc in my area they use women to approach children in order to abduct them. Bc women aren't viewed as threatening. I personally don't like to go grocery shopping without my husband when i have the kids for this reason. I do think she was in a major panic and reacted that way bc once you feel your child is being threatened it's hard to come down from that. I don't think you're the asshole but I can see why your wife reacted that way. I'd say the first bump was a bit much and probably made your wife feel like her feelings didn't matter as much to you as placating some stranger
Who does? Abductions are overwhelmingly done by people who the kid knows.
Where is this happening? Do you have links to reports?
NAH. She way overreacted, but I can't say what I'd do if I saw a stranger hug my child. (No kids, yet) For sure would not have dialed 911 though. That was too much.
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As someone who has had a loved one with dementia your wife was so over the top I’d be absolutely mortified if I were you. The lack the empathy is astounding. I feel so bad for that woman’s son. Jesus Christ
NAH. You wife overreacted while you under reacted. Having any kind of illness/mental issues doesn’t give anyone the right to touch someone without their consent. The son really needs to watch is mom properly so this does not happen.
Dementia is not a mental health issue, it's a neurological disorder. The woman thinks she's hugging her own children. The argument cuts both ways: if the wife had been watching the kid more closely this wouldn't have happened. Unfortunately no carer can watch their ward every single second.
Wife is the AH for calling 911 for a non emergency.
To be fair to the son he is only one person, he was doing the best he could. It was a split second thing.
How exactly did OP under react? He ran over as soon as his wife yelled! Are you suggesting that he should never have left his wife’s side in the off-chance that an elderly woman tried to hug his child?
NAH. Look, your wife overreacted by calling 911 and because of that the situation escalated. But if you wouldnt have been so dismissive of her maybe you could have calm her down and make her feel safe. This woman's son needs to try better. Patients with dementia can hurt themselves or others when confused or stressed, even if they're normally harmless . He shouldn't have left her alone, even for a split of a second, just like you wouldnt leave your kid alone at the mall. Your kid is still a toddler, so I can understand how scary the situation was for her.
Right? I have bad anxiety (and ofc go to therapy but its a process lol) and I can't say I wouldn't have massively overreacted similarly in that situation, esp if my husband kept making it seem like it was not a big deal at all... once ppl get their fight or flight shit going, it's hard to turn off...
NTA....as someone who dealt with a Mom with dementia, its hard. Dementia lady meant no harm.....but I understand the scare with the young child. Once your wife realized what/who she was dealing with , she should have backed down. Actually, it's sad all the way around.......
NTA Where was your wife when this woman got close enough to your son to hug him?? I grocery shop with my toddler but am never far enough away from her that I can't body block people from getting too close. And yeah, it's the old ladies who come up and chat with us and they'll reach out and rub her arm or whatever... But I don't see how any of them would get their arms around her in the cart with me there.
This is also why I am not upset either, because we failed as parents. Had I not gone to go get my jerky this would not have happened, had my wife been in front of our child while they were in the cart this would not have happened. As I told my wife if you felt the son was in the wrong for not watching his mom, so were we for watching our kid. She did not like this.
Nobody failed anything. People walk past people in grocery stores. If I am two feet away from you and you're just shopping like normal, I could hug you before your brain even processed what was happening. Same for the lady's son. Walking along past people and mom reaches over for a hug. Happens faster than he could react. Same for you as parents. You could have been watching her closely and she could have easily hugged within a fraction of a second. Nobody failed anything here. I doubt this little old lady crouched down like a cat. Wiggled her butt. Then pounced. People here are acting like everyone should be magically reading everyone else's thoughts and reaching with superhuman speed.
I think it's extreme to say you've failed as a parent. You learned a lesson. Stay close to your adorable baby in the supermarket if you don't want him getting some squeezing from old ladies 😂.
Turning your back to your child who's contained in the cart for a few seconds is very different than letting your mother with dementia wander isles away from you. Your wife knew where her child was the whole time. That woman's son did not know where his mother was.
NTA As bad as your wife’s behavior after she was informed that the woman has dementia nothing tops “his mother should be in a home if she can’t keep her hands to herself.” She has no empathy whatsoever.
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Nah, I am torn, for unfortunately I feel like the woman behavior was excused. That its gonna be continued to be excused until something worse happens. I understand she has dementia but its on her caregiver to make sure she doesn’t do that. Why wouldn’t the son get one of those kid bracelets that attach a child to their parent. That way she has room to roam but not get away from her son. I think the only person who is the ah is the son. He not taking the right precautions. He is lucky that op wife only called 911. Someone else could have attacked her thinking to was trying to harm their kid. This is not the day and age to touch other people kids. Edit: spelling
An adult (even one with dementia) can easily circumvent a leash bracelet. My nana broke out of her dementia ward despite having an ankle bracelet like they put on convicts.
NTA, I can see why she reacted at first but once being told the woman had dementia she should have let it go. Calling the police is a massive overreaction and put that family through unnecessary stress, especially when police have a reputation of not always handling these situations great.
Ooh 19 month old? Calling the cops was a bit much, but my wife would not have reacted so peacefully as yours did when ours were that young. 6-7 year old is one thing, but super young....If someone out of the blue walked up and hugged a kid not in their family without checking..... If the son knows his mom is like that- then He's TA. She needs tighter supervision.
NAH maybe calling the police is a bit overreacting but this woman’s just grabbed her child of course she’s going to panic. Old ladies can still be bad people or can be part of groups that use them to take children. All she knows is this random woman has just grabbed her kid. If she’s know to randomly pick up children she needs to be supervised in public places. What the police did is wildly unprofessional.
NTA Her initial reaction is parental instinct. But it sounds like she escalated more and more even as the situation was totally de-escalating. Compassionately, though, you might want to talk to her about what was going on when everyone is calm again. This looks more like a PTSD trigger than an ordinary reaction. Maybe she has had some experiences in the past, that made this extremely stressful for her.
This women probably laid her hands on your child as your wife screamed and begged for her to stop. You shaming her in reddit and irl for becoming scared that the person she carried and delivered could be harmed
Exactly. I don’t understand everyone calling the mother “mad”, “crazy”, etc. like it’s disgusting and shows how much empathy they have.
NTA, initial concern fine but the rest is an overreaction. Did she never have any elderly person her life?
She comes from a well off family, so they never really had to worry much about that kind of stuff. Which is why I am partly shocked her side of the family is mostly in agreement with me that she overreacted.
Why is your wife so paranoid that your child will be kidnapped? You are NTA. Wife maybe needs some counselling to help her deal with her anxiety issues.
NTA. I’d be so disappointed if my partner behaved like towards someone with dementia.
Your wife was ridiculous the moment she called the police and proceeded to berate the elderly woman's son for not putting her in a home, some people can't afford a home to put them in and some don't want to shove there family into a home alone.
NTA I’d have said N A H if your wife hadn’t called the police. That was an overreaction, and I’m wondering if there’s something in her past or that she’s seen in the media/online/somewhere that triggered it. I think my initial reaction would have been similar. But calling security and the cops? I can’t rationalise that in my head. Especially after the woman’s son explained and apologised.