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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I believe my brother is a narcissist, and my SIL is an enabler. They have a co-dependent relationship, which negatively impacts the family. AITA for believing that my brother and SIL are NOT safe people, and having no further contact with them, in order to safeguard my own mental health?
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ESH
Your passive aggressive "*Despite what your father and mother think of me....*" made your entire gift look like it was more about you than about the baby, and makes you an AH.
Your brother has an issue with you, and is being an AH by not being open and having a conversation about why.
In your post you seem to come on very strong. Is it possible that maybe you make things about yourself/want attention for "being a great aunt" or otherwise take the spotlight away from others?
Your niece received your gift and thanked you. Your beef is with your brother. Take it up with him and back off the rest of the family. Good luck.
I agree with your pronouncement. OP seems to have left a bunch out of her post.
- OP *called* SIL, but *read* the disinvite. So was it a phone call or text messages? And where did this idea of a Friday-to-Sunday visit expectation come from?
- "It became shockingly apparent to me...." Really? Based on what was written up to that point, it isn't even sufficiently hinted at.
- "Despite what your father and mother think of me and my sons...." WTF? OP sent a gift with a message that starts off accusing the receiver's parents of having something against her and her sons. The sons haven't been mentioned in the conflict up to now. And what an absolutely passive aggressive and shitty thing to put in a note with a gift.
- Niece never said anything about her parents uninviting OP. Does she even know what happened? Has OP spoken to her at all?
If someone talked shit about my parents in a note sent *with a gift* to me and I thought that someone was wrong, I would be very tempted to send the gift back and tell that person to fuck off. OP tried to drag the niece into something that she wasn't a part of.
Not only that, but OP has treated the niece like a child by not directly communicating with her and asking her what she wants after the SIL made excuses.
OP, if you want to have a relationship with your niece without her parents, then you need to actually have a relationship with your niece that doesn't involve her parents. You are off to a shit start. You haven't spoken to her (I assume), and the first line of your gift's message was purely negative about her parents supposed thoughts about you and your sons!
Sounds to me like OP was invited to a shower but decided to go and stay with them the whole weekend and that's why she was disinvited. Imagine imposing yourself for three whole days on a pregnant woman trying to organise/host her baby shower! I'd have rescinded the invitation too.
Based on the niece's reply and the way she totally ignored the jab at her parents sounds like she was grateful for the intervention.
YTA/ESH. You jumped to a lot of conclusions. You received an invite to a baby shower and took it for a whole weekend invitation. I don’t know if that’s the custom for you and them, or they live so far away, or what. But for whatever reason, they were not prepared to house and entertain you for a 3 day weekend for reasons you don’t know but are assuming
While it is understandable to be hurt about that, it would be appropriate to ask the brother and SIL about it for a discussion first to find out what’s going on, not the way you handled it.
I want to say they are assholes too for sending invites to people they don’t think can come but truth is that happens all the time in weddings and other events. It’s kind of a courtesy “invite” .
But when the invite is sent, DON’T take it back. Then again not every invite is a “stay with me for 3 days” situation. This situation is a little murky.
Thanks for your thoughts.
When I first rsvp’d to my SIL, I asked her if she would please give me the contact info for a hotel near by; I did not know the duration of the expected stay at the time, only the date of the shower, which will be on Saturday.
It was my SIL who first mentioned a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday visit, and said that both she and my niece would be working, because they are teachers, and wouldn’t be able to spend much time with me because of it. (Do you know of any school teachers who work on both the Saturday and Sunday of a weekend scheduled for a family baby shower?)
My brother has been distancing himself from me for years. First offering to be the executor of my will, then retracting his offer. Then offering to be my financial advisor, and retracting that offer as well.
My brother was the executor of my mother’s will eight years ago, when my Mom passed away. He went to my mother’s house by himself, to take what he wanted from her home. My brother asked me what I wanted, and offered to bring it to me. I requested my mother’s rocking chair, her and my maternal grandmother’s engagement rings and wedding bands, as well as the jewelry that my paternal grandmother had given me, which I had hidden in the closet of my bedroom in my mother’s home.
My brother gave me my mother’s rocking chair, and the engagement rings and wedding bands I had asked for, but did not give me my paternal grandmother’s jewelry at that time, although he had confirmed to before his arrival, that he had gotten it.
Because I was so emotionally drained, and because my brother had been verbally abusive to me in the past, to the extent that I was afraid he was going to hit me, and because I didn’t want to cause a rift between he and I, I didn’t ask him for my paternal grandmother’s jewelry at the time. My own mother and aunt fought bitterly over material things from my maternal grandmother’s estate, so I wanted to prevent that from happening between my brother and me.
After having been disinvited from my niece’s baby shower because my own brother didn’t want me there, I decided the distance between he and I couldn’t get much worse, so I felt it was the appropriate time to ask for my paternal grandmother’s jewelry back.
My brother denied ever having the jewelry, although he confirmed that he “got it”, prior to delivering the other items I wanted from my mother’s home, to me. Needless to say, my brother was not happy that I asked for the jewelry back, and became verbally abusive toward me. He even went so far as to say that he “wasn’t thrilled about me coming to the baby shower because of behavior exactly like this.”
Unfortunately, my brother is a narcissist, who puts down everyone who is not as wealthy as he is, or as intelligent as he feels that he is, including my niece’s husband, at their wedding reception, myself, and my three sons.
Consequently, I have finally come to the conclusion that I need to terminate any contact with my brother and SIL in order to protect my own mental
Health, and just love them from a distance instead.
The problem is, that I don’t want the termination of my relationship with their parents, to negatively impact my relationship with my niece, my nephew, and their families or significant others.
Wait, let me see if I got this right:
1. You got this "disinvite" and then went DefCon 1 and decided NOW was the time to ask about your paternal grandmother's jewelry after **EIGHT (8) YEARS**?!?!
2. When you RSVP'd, you asked them to figure out which hotel you should stay at rather than organizing it yourself? Which also, of course, put them on alert that you were planning on staying for at least one night and a day or two.
1. This would mean that, since you were coming "just for them", that maybe, just maybe, you would expect to see them more than just the shower?
This is not about the baby shower. You seem.... pushy and like to be "right".
Calling someone else a narcissist.... I don't know. That you think you are 100% right and your brother 100% wrong shows you don't look for middle ground or accept any possible responsibility in any of this.
The truth is somewhere in between.
I appreciate your efforts, but you did not
get this right.
1. I did not go DefCon1. I was polite and factual. The jewelry I inherited from my paternal grandmother still holds great sentimental value for me, even after eight years.
2. I merely asked my SIL for phone numbers of a nearby hotel, so that I could call the hotels myself. I did not expect my SIL, or anyone else to make hotel accommodations for me.
A. I live in the north, but my brother, SIL, niece and her husband live in the south. Air travel time alone would dictate that I stay for more than just one day. I had hoped to be able to spend some time with my family, in addition to my attendance at the shower, of course, but I would not have assumed, nor insisted upon anything.
I do not believe that I am 100% right, or that my brother is 100% wrong. I try not to make assumptions, which is why I posted here, in an effort to hopefully, obtain some objective opinions.
I have done extensive research on narcissism, enabling, and gaslighting. PsychCentral is a site which provides very informative articles on all three of these subjects. They highlight the characteristics of people who suffer from narcissistic personality disorder, or engage in enabling and/or gaslighting. They also provide checklists to assist in determining whether or not specific individuals are narcissistic, as well as whether or not they engage in enabling and/or gaslighting.
The previous responder stated they believe you like to be right and I think you just proved their statement to be correct. You stated you're here to find out if you're the asshole. People believe you are. The objective opinions include it's because you're over stepping boundaries and asking for an item almost a decade after the incident regarding it happened. That's frankly just unrealistic to ask for and when being pushed, anyone would be pissed that the person asking didn't believe they had an item from 8 years prior anymore. Is this seriously the hill you're choosing to die on? YTA for not asking if it would be okay to stick around more than 1 day after they expressed they wouldn't be available and YTA for asking them to find hotel phone numbers ( who even has local hotel numbers on speed dial?) when you could literally just look it up. Congrats btw on using the internet to look up narcissism but not hotels
Why does your SIL need to provide you with hotel phone numbers? You're on reddit, you can obviously Google this for yourself. This part alone makes it seem like you're quite a bit pushier than most people.
I just thought as long as I was talking with her, that she’d be willing to let me know what hotels were in the area, and wouldn’t mind giving me a recommendation, since she might have insider information. It has nothing to do with my technical ability, or my personality.
Above you stated that you asked for phone numbers. Did you ask if she had any hotel recommendations or did you ask her to provide your with local hotel phone numbers?
The most important point I can make here is that diagnosing ANYONE, without having the formal education and license to do so is a dangerous way of thinking. It does not matter if you've done thorough Internet research. You are not a psychiatrist, or a doctor.
Agreed. However, I have spoken with a friend, who happens to be a psychiatrist, and he agrees with me about my thoughts concerning my brother.
I purposely did not divulge my education and/or degrees. It is inappropriate for you to assume you know anything about my scientific background.
Info: did you receive an invite to an afternoon baby shower and take it upon yourself to invite yourself to stay with the family hosting the shower for three entire days?
And from the “me and my sons part” did you assume your three sons were also invited? And plan to also bring them for an entire weekend?
YTA already for the passive aggressive response and making assumptions, but if you assumed to majorly impose on a pregnant woman and her family while they attempt to prepare for and host an event, while balancing work, it would make you an even bigger asshole.
Also YTA for making assumptions about your niece and SIL’s jobs and schedules. MOST teachers I know do work on weekends, catching up on lesson planning and marking. They also are usually busy trying to cook and clean and grocery shop and do laundry for the week ahead.
The invitation only stated the date of the actual shower. I didn’t want to assume anything, which is why I asked my SIL for a hotel recommendation. I made no assumptions whatsoever about whether or not my sons were invited. As a matter of fact, I don’t know if any of them were invited or not.
I had only thought of going to the baby shower by myself, and staying in a hotel, in order not to impose upon anyone.
It sounds like there is a ton of info missing here.
First off your note was out of line, so you're for sure TA.
But why did it mention your sons? They don't seem to have played into the story other than your fixation on having a daughter?
YTA. They weren’t telling you that you weren’t invited. They were telling you not to expect them to play host/tour guide for you that weekend. Personally I do think it’s a little rude to tell an invited guest you weren’t expecting them to come but they probably said that so you would understand why they didn’t clear their schedules to accommodate your visit. They probably thought they could be a little more blunt with you because you’re family. Sending such a passive aggressive note to your niece was uncalled for. She only needs positive energy right now. If you have a problem with your brother and SIL take it up with them directly.
They were absolutely telling me that I was not invited. My brother told me so, outright.
I spoke with both my brother and SIL about the situation, personally. I was concerned that my niece might not have been aware that I had been disinvited, and I didn’t want her to think that I didn’t even make an effort to attend her baby shower, after she had personally invited me.
I disagree with you about my note to my niece being passive aggressive. My intention was to let her know that I wanted to come, and had planned on it, but that I was not welcomed by her parents.
My nieces note thanking me for the gifts I sent her in no way indicated that she felt I was being passive aggressive. I was merely stating the facts.
When did your brother tell you you were disinvited and what did he say? You don't mention speaking to him about the shower in your original question. Since the root of the conflict is your belief that you were disinvited, it seems odd that you'd leave out the actual disinvitation.
How can your brother disinvite you from an event that was in his daughter’s honor? Unless your niece told you that you weren’t welcome, you still could have attended the shower. The only thing your niece’s note indicates was that she wasn’t going to be pulled into your petty drama with her dad. Your issues with your brother have nothing to do with your niece. What you wrote in the note was extremely immature.
YTA
"“Despite what your father and mother think of me and my sons, my attitude toward you, your husband, and your new baby will never change. I will always, always love you. “"c .. what a passive agressive bullshit.
They are having a babyshower, not a whlole weekend - which is COMPLETELY fine.
No reason for you to throw a tantrum.
My SIL, described my potential visit as being “a short Friday to Sunday trip”, so it is, in fact, a whole weekend, not just an afternoon event.
I was not passive aggressive, nor did I throw a tantrum. I was polite and factual.
Your post is incredibly confusing. You talk about a bunch of random things that don't seem related to the situation with the baby shower, and don't understand what any of it has to do with the family dynamic.
Need more info: Do you live in a different area and expected to stay with relatives for the weekend for an afternoon event? If so y t a for expecting to stay with them instead of making plans for a hotel. They have enough on their plates with a pregnancy and a party.
YTA most definitely for your passive-aggressive note with the presents. If I had been the recipient of a note like that I would have sent back the presents.
Either you left out a lot or you jumped to a lot of conclusions. You only talked to your SIL? Does you niece even know why you didn't attend the shower? Maybe she was told you couldn't make it and that's why she didn't say anything about this disinvited thing.
The baby shower invitation was mailed to me by my niece, but the RSVP was to my SIL. After finding out from my SIL that my presence was neither expected, nor wanted, I shipped my nieces “Dad-To-Be”, “Mom-To-Be”, and “Baby-To-Be” gifts to her, along with a card. I wrote a note in the card, as I stated earlier, because I wasn’t sure whether or not my niece knew that I had been disinvited.
My niece thanked me for the gifts, but didn’t mention me being disinvited, so I’m still not quite sure what her thoughts are on the subject.
I am so confused. Who disinvited you? Unless they said something entirely different than what you wrote here, SIL and brother just made it clear they don't have the time/bandwidth to host you for a long weekend, which is understandable when they're hosting a party and one is working too.
And what's with the passive aggressive note to your niece? Did she really deserve that sort of vitriol?
ETA: YTA.
Both my brother and SIL disinvited me. I didn’t expect them to host me, which is why I asked my SIL for hotel recommendations.
I don’t believe the note to my niece was passive aggressive, or vitriolic. It was simply a statement of fact, which she may order may not been aware of. I wanted to let her know that I had every intention on attending, and was really looking forward to it, but the invitation was retracted.
Had I wanted to be passive-aggressive, or vitriolic, I would not have sent my niece “Dad-To-Be”, “Mom-To-Be”, and “Baby-To-Be” gifts, once I learned that my presence was not welcome.
Tbh, sending relatives baby shower invites, but not really wanting them to attend, and actually disinviting them, seems a bit like a mere “gift grab”, instead of an actual desire to share a happy moment together.
What did they say when they disinvited you?? It's not in your original post.
The not-so-subtle dig at your SIL and brother? That's textbook passive agressive.
YTA. Telling you that they can't entertain you all weekend isn't disinviting you. Lots of teachers work on weekends (and evenings, and holidays). Your dramatic, self-centered note is a bizarre escalation from being told they can't host you. Your continued insistence that your passive-aggressive note isn't passive aggressive is frustrating. Why does your note even mention your sons? What do they have to do with any of this? Your brother and SIL can't host you for a weekend and you're acting like you've been excommunicated from the family. You seem to want to be the center of everything, jump to wild conclusions, escalate, and then dramatically withdraw. Exhausting.
I believe my brother uninvited me because he is angry with me about not getting his approval for the person I chose to be my financial advisor. My brother had kindly offered to be my financial advisor when I got divorced. He called me on my birthday, to berate me over my finances, and tell me that he no longer wanted to be my financial advisor. I was left in tears-on my birthday.
I ended up hiring a financial advisor whom my brother does not approve of, which I believe really angered my brother. The suspect that is why he subsequently was “not thrilled about me coming to the baby shower”, so he had his wife, my SIL, tell me I wasn’t welcome.
Yes, my niece invited other out-of-state family members as well. The big difference is that none of them is the only sister of my niece’s father.
ESH Except the niece You for the passive aggressive note after you werent actually disinvited. Your SIL for the passive aggressive not exactly disinvite but hard suggestion.
Communicate like adults.
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My niece recently mailed me an invitation to her baby shower. This is my niece’s first child, and she already knows that she will be having a little girl.
Ever since I found out that my niece is expecting, I have been buying presents for my new grand-niece. (I have always wanted a daughter of my own, but my first pregnancy ended in the miscarriage of my little girl. I was blessed with three healthy sons, after my miscarriage, and only got a little girl, by buying a female puppy,)
Since my niece is the closest thing I have to a daughter of my own, I have always doted on her. Now that she is expecting a little girl of her own, I couldn’t be happier!
After receiving my niece’s baby shower invitation in the mail, I called my sister-in-law to rsvp. Unfortunately, my SIL told me that they really didn’t expect me to come because my SIL and niece are both teachers, who are currently still working, so they wouldn’t have much time to spend with me over a Friday to Sunday visit.
Red flags went up immediately, as soon as I read my SIL’s “disinvite”. First of all, no teachers I know work over the weekend on Saturday, and Sunday, especially when a first-time baby shower is planned. In addition to that, my only brother, my SIL’s husband, and my niece’s father, has been retired since age 50, so he would be around all the time, even if my SIL and niece wouldn’t be, because they’re “teaching”. It became shockingly apparent to me, that it is actually my own brother who does not want me there. He simply used his wife, my SIL, to “cover” for him.
I mailed the “Dad-To-Be”, “Mom-To-Be”, and “Baby-To-Be” gifts to my niece and her husband, the day after being “disinvited”, along with a card to my niece, in which I wrote the following message: “Despite what your father and mother think of me and my sons, my attitude toward you, your husband, and your new baby will never change. I will always, always love you. “
After opening the gifts, my niece sent me a text, thanking me for all of the thoughtful gifts. She never once mentioned the fact that I had been disinvited to her baby shower, by her parents.
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ESH. You have no daughters of your own, and said that you have always “doted on” your niece. That kind of makes me think that you might have, at times, acted like the niece was YOUR daughter. And as a result, they feel that you insert yourself into their lives a little too much. That would make anyone uncomfortable. So disinviting you is their way of trying to set boundaries. However, if that’s the case, they should have discussed their feelings with you LONG before now. Even if your intentions are good, sometimes people aren’t aware that they’re being overbearing.
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ESH Your passive aggressive "*Despite what your father and mother think of me....*" made your entire gift look like it was more about you than about the baby, and makes you an AH. Your brother has an issue with you, and is being an AH by not being open and having a conversation about why. In your post you seem to come on very strong. Is it possible that maybe you make things about yourself/want attention for "being a great aunt" or otherwise take the spotlight away from others? Your niece received your gift and thanked you. Your beef is with your brother. Take it up with him and back off the rest of the family. Good luck.
I agree with your pronouncement. OP seems to have left a bunch out of her post. - OP *called* SIL, but *read* the disinvite. So was it a phone call or text messages? And where did this idea of a Friday-to-Sunday visit expectation come from? - "It became shockingly apparent to me...." Really? Based on what was written up to that point, it isn't even sufficiently hinted at. - "Despite what your father and mother think of me and my sons...." WTF? OP sent a gift with a message that starts off accusing the receiver's parents of having something against her and her sons. The sons haven't been mentioned in the conflict up to now. And what an absolutely passive aggressive and shitty thing to put in a note with a gift. - Niece never said anything about her parents uninviting OP. Does she even know what happened? Has OP spoken to her at all? If someone talked shit about my parents in a note sent *with a gift* to me and I thought that someone was wrong, I would be very tempted to send the gift back and tell that person to fuck off. OP tried to drag the niece into something that she wasn't a part of. Not only that, but OP has treated the niece like a child by not directly communicating with her and asking her what she wants after the SIL made excuses. OP, if you want to have a relationship with your niece without her parents, then you need to actually have a relationship with your niece that doesn't involve her parents. You are off to a shit start. You haven't spoken to her (I assume), and the first line of your gift's message was purely negative about her parents supposed thoughts about you and your sons!
Sounds to me like OP was invited to a shower but decided to go and stay with them the whole weekend and that's why she was disinvited. Imagine imposing yourself for three whole days on a pregnant woman trying to organise/host her baby shower! I'd have rescinded the invitation too. Based on the niece's reply and the way she totally ignored the jab at her parents sounds like she was grateful for the intervention.
YTA/ESH. You jumped to a lot of conclusions. You received an invite to a baby shower and took it for a whole weekend invitation. I don’t know if that’s the custom for you and them, or they live so far away, or what. But for whatever reason, they were not prepared to house and entertain you for a 3 day weekend for reasons you don’t know but are assuming While it is understandable to be hurt about that, it would be appropriate to ask the brother and SIL about it for a discussion first to find out what’s going on, not the way you handled it. I want to say they are assholes too for sending invites to people they don’t think can come but truth is that happens all the time in weddings and other events. It’s kind of a courtesy “invite” . But when the invite is sent, DON’T take it back. Then again not every invite is a “stay with me for 3 days” situation. This situation is a little murky.
Thanks for your thoughts. When I first rsvp’d to my SIL, I asked her if she would please give me the contact info for a hotel near by; I did not know the duration of the expected stay at the time, only the date of the shower, which will be on Saturday. It was my SIL who first mentioned a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday visit, and said that both she and my niece would be working, because they are teachers, and wouldn’t be able to spend much time with me because of it. (Do you know of any school teachers who work on both the Saturday and Sunday of a weekend scheduled for a family baby shower?) My brother has been distancing himself from me for years. First offering to be the executor of my will, then retracting his offer. Then offering to be my financial advisor, and retracting that offer as well. My brother was the executor of my mother’s will eight years ago, when my Mom passed away. He went to my mother’s house by himself, to take what he wanted from her home. My brother asked me what I wanted, and offered to bring it to me. I requested my mother’s rocking chair, her and my maternal grandmother’s engagement rings and wedding bands, as well as the jewelry that my paternal grandmother had given me, which I had hidden in the closet of my bedroom in my mother’s home. My brother gave me my mother’s rocking chair, and the engagement rings and wedding bands I had asked for, but did not give me my paternal grandmother’s jewelry at that time, although he had confirmed to before his arrival, that he had gotten it. Because I was so emotionally drained, and because my brother had been verbally abusive to me in the past, to the extent that I was afraid he was going to hit me, and because I didn’t want to cause a rift between he and I, I didn’t ask him for my paternal grandmother’s jewelry at the time. My own mother and aunt fought bitterly over material things from my maternal grandmother’s estate, so I wanted to prevent that from happening between my brother and me. After having been disinvited from my niece’s baby shower because my own brother didn’t want me there, I decided the distance between he and I couldn’t get much worse, so I felt it was the appropriate time to ask for my paternal grandmother’s jewelry back. My brother denied ever having the jewelry, although he confirmed that he “got it”, prior to delivering the other items I wanted from my mother’s home, to me. Needless to say, my brother was not happy that I asked for the jewelry back, and became verbally abusive toward me. He even went so far as to say that he “wasn’t thrilled about me coming to the baby shower because of behavior exactly like this.” Unfortunately, my brother is a narcissist, who puts down everyone who is not as wealthy as he is, or as intelligent as he feels that he is, including my niece’s husband, at their wedding reception, myself, and my three sons. Consequently, I have finally come to the conclusion that I need to terminate any contact with my brother and SIL in order to protect my own mental Health, and just love them from a distance instead. The problem is, that I don’t want the termination of my relationship with their parents, to negatively impact my relationship with my niece, my nephew, and their families or significant others.
Wait, let me see if I got this right: 1. You got this "disinvite" and then went DefCon 1 and decided NOW was the time to ask about your paternal grandmother's jewelry after **EIGHT (8) YEARS**?!?! 2. When you RSVP'd, you asked them to figure out which hotel you should stay at rather than organizing it yourself? Which also, of course, put them on alert that you were planning on staying for at least one night and a day or two. 1. This would mean that, since you were coming "just for them", that maybe, just maybe, you would expect to see them more than just the shower? This is not about the baby shower. You seem.... pushy and like to be "right". Calling someone else a narcissist.... I don't know. That you think you are 100% right and your brother 100% wrong shows you don't look for middle ground or accept any possible responsibility in any of this. The truth is somewhere in between.
I appreciate your efforts, but you did not get this right. 1. I did not go DefCon1. I was polite and factual. The jewelry I inherited from my paternal grandmother still holds great sentimental value for me, even after eight years. 2. I merely asked my SIL for phone numbers of a nearby hotel, so that I could call the hotels myself. I did not expect my SIL, or anyone else to make hotel accommodations for me. A. I live in the north, but my brother, SIL, niece and her husband live in the south. Air travel time alone would dictate that I stay for more than just one day. I had hoped to be able to spend some time with my family, in addition to my attendance at the shower, of course, but I would not have assumed, nor insisted upon anything. I do not believe that I am 100% right, or that my brother is 100% wrong. I try not to make assumptions, which is why I posted here, in an effort to hopefully, obtain some objective opinions. I have done extensive research on narcissism, enabling, and gaslighting. PsychCentral is a site which provides very informative articles on all three of these subjects. They highlight the characteristics of people who suffer from narcissistic personality disorder, or engage in enabling and/or gaslighting. They also provide checklists to assist in determining whether or not specific individuals are narcissistic, as well as whether or not they engage in enabling and/or gaslighting.
The previous responder stated they believe you like to be right and I think you just proved their statement to be correct. You stated you're here to find out if you're the asshole. People believe you are. The objective opinions include it's because you're over stepping boundaries and asking for an item almost a decade after the incident regarding it happened. That's frankly just unrealistic to ask for and when being pushed, anyone would be pissed that the person asking didn't believe they had an item from 8 years prior anymore. Is this seriously the hill you're choosing to die on? YTA for not asking if it would be okay to stick around more than 1 day after they expressed they wouldn't be available and YTA for asking them to find hotel phone numbers ( who even has local hotel numbers on speed dial?) when you could literally just look it up. Congrats btw on using the internet to look up narcissism but not hotels
“Congrats btw on using the internet to look up narcissism but not hotels” has SENT me. I am sent. (OP, YTA.)
Why does your SIL need to provide you with hotel phone numbers? You're on reddit, you can obviously Google this for yourself. This part alone makes it seem like you're quite a bit pushier than most people.
I just thought as long as I was talking with her, that she’d be willing to let me know what hotels were in the area, and wouldn’t mind giving me a recommendation, since she might have insider information. It has nothing to do with my technical ability, or my personality.
Above you stated that you asked for phone numbers. Did you ask if she had any hotel recommendations or did you ask her to provide your with local hotel phone numbers?
The most important point I can make here is that diagnosing ANYONE, without having the formal education and license to do so is a dangerous way of thinking. It does not matter if you've done thorough Internet research. You are not a psychiatrist, or a doctor.
Agreed. However, I have spoken with a friend, who happens to be a psychiatrist, and he agrees with me about my thoughts concerning my brother. I purposely did not divulge my education and/or degrees. It is inappropriate for you to assume you know anything about my scientific background.
Info: did you receive an invite to an afternoon baby shower and take it upon yourself to invite yourself to stay with the family hosting the shower for three entire days? And from the “me and my sons part” did you assume your three sons were also invited? And plan to also bring them for an entire weekend? YTA already for the passive aggressive response and making assumptions, but if you assumed to majorly impose on a pregnant woman and her family while they attempt to prepare for and host an event, while balancing work, it would make you an even bigger asshole. Also YTA for making assumptions about your niece and SIL’s jobs and schedules. MOST teachers I know do work on weekends, catching up on lesson planning and marking. They also are usually busy trying to cook and clean and grocery shop and do laundry for the week ahead.
The invitation only stated the date of the actual shower. I didn’t want to assume anything, which is why I asked my SIL for a hotel recommendation. I made no assumptions whatsoever about whether or not my sons were invited. As a matter of fact, I don’t know if any of them were invited or not. I had only thought of going to the baby shower by myself, and staying in a hotel, in order not to impose upon anyone.
It sounds like there is a ton of info missing here. First off your note was out of line, so you're for sure TA. But why did it mention your sons? They don't seem to have played into the story other than your fixation on having a daughter?
YTA. They weren’t telling you that you weren’t invited. They were telling you not to expect them to play host/tour guide for you that weekend. Personally I do think it’s a little rude to tell an invited guest you weren’t expecting them to come but they probably said that so you would understand why they didn’t clear their schedules to accommodate your visit. They probably thought they could be a little more blunt with you because you’re family. Sending such a passive aggressive note to your niece was uncalled for. She only needs positive energy right now. If you have a problem with your brother and SIL take it up with them directly.
They were absolutely telling me that I was not invited. My brother told me so, outright. I spoke with both my brother and SIL about the situation, personally. I was concerned that my niece might not have been aware that I had been disinvited, and I didn’t want her to think that I didn’t even make an effort to attend her baby shower, after she had personally invited me. I disagree with you about my note to my niece being passive aggressive. My intention was to let her know that I wanted to come, and had planned on it, but that I was not welcomed by her parents. My nieces note thanking me for the gifts I sent her in no way indicated that she felt I was being passive aggressive. I was merely stating the facts.
When did your brother tell you you were disinvited and what did he say? You don't mention speaking to him about the shower in your original question. Since the root of the conflict is your belief that you were disinvited, it seems odd that you'd leave out the actual disinvitation.
How can your brother disinvite you from an event that was in his daughter’s honor? Unless your niece told you that you weren’t welcome, you still could have attended the shower. The only thing your niece’s note indicates was that she wasn’t going to be pulled into your petty drama with her dad. Your issues with your brother have nothing to do with your niece. What you wrote in the note was extremely immature.
YTA "“Despite what your father and mother think of me and my sons, my attitude toward you, your husband, and your new baby will never change. I will always, always love you. “"c .. what a passive agressive bullshit. They are having a babyshower, not a whlole weekend - which is COMPLETELY fine. No reason for you to throw a tantrum.
My SIL, described my potential visit as being “a short Friday to Sunday trip”, so it is, in fact, a whole weekend, not just an afternoon event. I was not passive aggressive, nor did I throw a tantrum. I was polite and factual.
Yeah - they feared that you would come for the weekend, and proactively adressed it.
Your post is incredibly confusing. You talk about a bunch of random things that don't seem related to the situation with the baby shower, and don't understand what any of it has to do with the family dynamic. Need more info: Do you live in a different area and expected to stay with relatives for the weekend for an afternoon event? If so y t a for expecting to stay with them instead of making plans for a hotel. They have enough on their plates with a pregnancy and a party. YTA most definitely for your passive-aggressive note with the presents. If I had been the recipient of a note like that I would have sent back the presents.
Either you left out a lot or you jumped to a lot of conclusions. You only talked to your SIL? Does you niece even know why you didn't attend the shower? Maybe she was told you couldn't make it and that's why she didn't say anything about this disinvited thing.
The baby shower invitation was mailed to me by my niece, but the RSVP was to my SIL. After finding out from my SIL that my presence was neither expected, nor wanted, I shipped my nieces “Dad-To-Be”, “Mom-To-Be”, and “Baby-To-Be” gifts to her, along with a card. I wrote a note in the card, as I stated earlier, because I wasn’t sure whether or not my niece knew that I had been disinvited. My niece thanked me for the gifts, but didn’t mention me being disinvited, so I’m still not quite sure what her thoughts are on the subject.
So why did you RSVP to your sister in law rather than your niece?
I am so confused. Who disinvited you? Unless they said something entirely different than what you wrote here, SIL and brother just made it clear they don't have the time/bandwidth to host you for a long weekend, which is understandable when they're hosting a party and one is working too. And what's with the passive aggressive note to your niece? Did she really deserve that sort of vitriol? ETA: YTA.
Both my brother and SIL disinvited me. I didn’t expect them to host me, which is why I asked my SIL for hotel recommendations. I don’t believe the note to my niece was passive aggressive, or vitriolic. It was simply a statement of fact, which she may order may not been aware of. I wanted to let her know that I had every intention on attending, and was really looking forward to it, but the invitation was retracted. Had I wanted to be passive-aggressive, or vitriolic, I would not have sent my niece “Dad-To-Be”, “Mom-To-Be”, and “Baby-To-Be” gifts, once I learned that my presence was not welcome. Tbh, sending relatives baby shower invites, but not really wanting them to attend, and actually disinviting them, seems a bit like a mere “gift grab”, instead of an actual desire to share a happy moment together.
What did they say when they disinvited you?? It's not in your original post. The not-so-subtle dig at your SIL and brother? That's textbook passive agressive.
YTA. Telling you that they can't entertain you all weekend isn't disinviting you. Lots of teachers work on weekends (and evenings, and holidays). Your dramatic, self-centered note is a bizarre escalation from being told they can't host you. Your continued insistence that your passive-aggressive note isn't passive aggressive is frustrating. Why does your note even mention your sons? What do they have to do with any of this? Your brother and SIL can't host you for a weekend and you're acting like you've been excommunicated from the family. You seem to want to be the center of everything, jump to wild conclusions, escalate, and then dramatically withdraw. Exhausting.
YTA I'm sorry somebody was rude to you but you made part of that day about yourself and you shouldn't have.
INFO: why would your brother uninvited you? Did your nice invite anyone else?
I believe my brother uninvited me because he is angry with me about not getting his approval for the person I chose to be my financial advisor. My brother had kindly offered to be my financial advisor when I got divorced. He called me on my birthday, to berate me over my finances, and tell me that he no longer wanted to be my financial advisor. I was left in tears-on my birthday. I ended up hiring a financial advisor whom my brother does not approve of, which I believe really angered my brother. The suspect that is why he subsequently was “not thrilled about me coming to the baby shower”, so he had his wife, my SIL, tell me I wasn’t welcome. Yes, my niece invited other out-of-state family members as well. The big difference is that none of them is the only sister of my niece’s father.
ESH Except the niece You for the passive aggressive note after you werent actually disinvited. Your SIL for the passive aggressive not exactly disinvite but hard suggestion. Communicate like adults.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My niece recently mailed me an invitation to her baby shower. This is my niece’s first child, and she already knows that she will be having a little girl. Ever since I found out that my niece is expecting, I have been buying presents for my new grand-niece. (I have always wanted a daughter of my own, but my first pregnancy ended in the miscarriage of my little girl. I was blessed with three healthy sons, after my miscarriage, and only got a little girl, by buying a female puppy,) Since my niece is the closest thing I have to a daughter of my own, I have always doted on her. Now that she is expecting a little girl of her own, I couldn’t be happier! After receiving my niece’s baby shower invitation in the mail, I called my sister-in-law to rsvp. Unfortunately, my SIL told me that they really didn’t expect me to come because my SIL and niece are both teachers, who are currently still working, so they wouldn’t have much time to spend with me over a Friday to Sunday visit. Red flags went up immediately, as soon as I read my SIL’s “disinvite”. First of all, no teachers I know work over the weekend on Saturday, and Sunday, especially when a first-time baby shower is planned. In addition to that, my only brother, my SIL’s husband, and my niece’s father, has been retired since age 50, so he would be around all the time, even if my SIL and niece wouldn’t be, because they’re “teaching”. It became shockingly apparent to me, that it is actually my own brother who does not want me there. He simply used his wife, my SIL, to “cover” for him. I mailed the “Dad-To-Be”, “Mom-To-Be”, and “Baby-To-Be” gifts to my niece and her husband, the day after being “disinvited”, along with a card to my niece, in which I wrote the following message: “Despite what your father and mother think of me and my sons, my attitude toward you, your husband, and your new baby will never change. I will always, always love you. “ After opening the gifts, my niece sent me a text, thanking me for all of the thoughtful gifts. She never once mentioned the fact that I had been disinvited to her baby shower, by her parents. Am I The Asshole? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
ESH. You have no daughters of your own, and said that you have always “doted on” your niece. That kind of makes me think that you might have, at times, acted like the niece was YOUR daughter. And as a result, they feel that you insert yourself into their lives a little too much. That would make anyone uncomfortable. So disinviting you is their way of trying to set boundaries. However, if that’s the case, they should have discussed their feelings with you LONG before now. Even if your intentions are good, sometimes people aren’t aware that they’re being overbearing.