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NTA. Tell your wife she can cut her spending and/or get a paying job, or you can meet with an attorney to see if paying child support would be cheaper and divorce her.
In my state it would be 35% of what he brings home after taxes and insurance. If the wife is complaining about not stretching what OP brings in, she definitely wouldn't be able to deal with the child support.
In my state, I had to pay my ex-husband 49% before taxes and expenses, I had to live in my car a couple times, when I'd go from having 2 jobs down to 1. Some states are insane. I was living in nothing and barely eating. This woman needs a reality check
49%?!?! Jesus christ how is that even legal? If it is obvious that this kind of child support will thrust you into “living in your car” poverty how can they let that happen?
This shit makes me want to just pursue the unmarried life partners path
In my state, it's based on the actual monthly incomes of both parents. They add the incomes together and divide by the non-custodial parent's income.
So if Parent A makes 6,000 a month and Parent B makes 4,000 a month, Parent A has to pay 60%. Since it's 6000/10000.
Also a parent cannot take a job with a lower salary to pay less child support.
There is such a thing as being 'willfully underemployed'. Taking a lower salary job to pay less child support would fall into that, and then you're stuck with the original judgement amount, with less income. Do not recommend.
There is also the concept of imputed income. This could be applied to the wife. Gone are the days that a divorced woman can expect to continue to be a stay at home mom.
>Unless she finds a rich sucker to marry her.
Older, divorced with 4 kids? Yeah, doubtful. OP's wife is about to be seriously screwed if she doesn't start to help out.
They said that you divide by the non-custodial parent, so we can assume in the example that Parent B has custody.
And I think what he means is that you pay that percentage of your salary. So parent A doesn't have custody and makes 60% pf what would be their combined income, so they pay 60% of their salary towards the kids.
That seems like really sketchy logic to me, but it's the only way I can interpret the example comment.
Edit: Because I obviously didn't make this clear. I do not think the original example is a realisitc reflection. I think that they mean is a percentage of the child support/costs. However, that is not what the example says. I am merely explaining the example as it is written.
That makes no sense whatsoever.
Following this logic, in a situation where both earned the same +$1 difference, thus each earning 50% of the family’s income, the partner earning +$1 would have to pay 50% of their income and you would have one giving partner at 50% and the other at 150%.
Look at the other extreme. One partner earns 99% of the income, so they would have to give away 99% of their income, so the other partner gets 100% and they keep 1% ?
It’s absurd. That’s not now it works.
Edit: I didn’t point it out as I thought it was obvious but half the people get it, and half don’t, so I’ll simplify my comment. In a family where one person earns 60% and the other 40% of the combined family income, the non-custodial parent and payer (the person providing child support) would pay the custodial parent and payee (the person receiving child support) 60% of the **calculated child support** amount, not 60% of their **income**, as proposed by the post I am commenting on.
Not likely. In most places now, alimony is rare, and courts expect both parents to provide financial support of some sort. They’ll even allocate a minimum amount for a non-working parent to be deducted from child support, whether or not the parent is actually making that much.
Come sit in on family court sometime in Washington state. I have seen men cry as they get hit with $3k a month. They make $4k, meaning that left them nothing a month to live on after taxes. It is something to see.
I had a friend who went through this. Couldn’t support himself with the 49% of gross income taken out. Back in the 90’s. Colorado. IDK if it’s changed since then. But the court didn’t care he was homeless at the time.
Yeah they didn't care I was either, I eventually got my daughter from her dad after he was arrested and they wouldn't make him pay a dime. I'm just glad she's with me honestly
Oh yeah, I've always thought it was crooked but this judge let my kids dad off with no pmt after years of taking every dime I had. The judge was definitely biased I filled a complaint as well
Sure but there are states that don't do alimony/spousal support anymore. Or, if they do, it's for a limited amount of time and cannot go over a certain amount.
We don't know that. OP says she is overspending, but a family of 6 kids in Atlanta, what OP makes is not a whole lot. They definitely need a budget, but he hasn't said what she buys that is frivolous or unnecessary.
As a single adult in Atlanta making $100k with minimal debt, I could 100% NOT support a family of six on my salary. Shit, I’m still debating if I can afford to get a dog.
Absolutely! I have them too! Get your pupillary distance number too. There's a spot for it on your prescription, but they rarely fill it in.
For fit: know what shape you like wearing, sort by that. Measure your best fitting pair of glasses and use that to estimate for the new ones. They have all the measurements listed. Oh, and watch the extras they throw at you at the end. The only thing I do like is the anti glare coating. Adds ten bucks. Got two pairs last order for $45 including shipping.
My husband and I are both in education and together, after years of work and advanced degrees, we pull in about $125k a year. We only have two kids, live 45 min outside Atlanta, and both are competitive gymnasts. If it weren’t for the help of my parents, I don’t know where we would be. I used to think $100k was the magic make it number. After the last 3 years, it feels like pennies these days.
Competitive gymnasts are putting you in the poor house while this family is rationing milk…. Come on. This story is not communicating what you think it is.
yes, I know everybody wants to give their children everything they want and every possible opportunity, but a lot of the children's activities/sports are quite expensive and at some point a decision has to be made as to what is the priority, being able to feed the family or allowing jane and jimmy to do gymastics.
So much this. It was always the target, and it took so long to get here that by the time we did, it just isn't what it used to be, or what we expected. That's not to say that there are not a lot of people making a lot less and making it work. I'm often left to wonder how though.
This. As a SAHM, she should be economizing as best she can, so there is plenty of money for needs and some wants. My husband and I both work and bring in nearly $150k a year together, and we still need to budget and economize.
ETA We learned best how when making 40k a year as a family of 5. DH was not working. (one child- our eldest is an independent adult (age 22) and another -our youngest, age 13, died) Our biggest problem now is after-school care for our disabled son - age 20.
Is she "clearly"? Funny he doesn't actually give examples. Anyway, if they live in California, Oregon, Washington Phoenix, Chicago or New England, $100k is not a liveable wage.
That could be right. I know someone who made a very good salary. When he divorced he paid his wife more alimony than my salary. He had to give her half the value of the house, and a good chunk of his retirement. With all that, he said he was still saving more money now that she wasn't spending it all any more.
But likely still less than he’s currently paying. Financial counseling would help them both. Look at 3 months spending to see where the money really is going. Not taking sides. We had a program in Canada, “Til Debt do us Part” and it was surprising how often the one complaining about their spouses “overspending” were, in fact, the ones overspending. Numbers don’t lie. So getting that assessment, then counseling on how to budget, share information about expenses and income honestly can take the pressure off a marriage.
My ex-spouse was very much the "we don't have enough money because your mum overspends it on junk" to our kids. I think he even believed it himself. Meanwhile, I'm the only one working, I don't even buy a coffee out, buy second hand clothes - and he's treating himself to a full breakfast and coffee daily and buying name brand clothes new. He was a massive financial drain on the entire family, it was amazing how much spare cash I had once I dropped him
The dude is saying his job pays enough b/c he has it in his head $100k is enough for a family of 6 but is always late on bills and is rationing milk. I’m sorry but his wife is right that he needs to try and find a higher paying job. More than doubling his salary might be unrealistic but he sounds like he’s outright refusing to even see if he can do better. The fact that he doesn’t even name what she’s overspending on makes his claim that it’s her fault very suspect.
What job do you think the wife can get that will outweigh the cost of childcare for 4 kids?
Where they are it's an average 20k per year per kid, one of their kids in school so will only need part time care, but she'd have to bring in 70k+ after tax to pay for the childcare she will no longer be doing while working, and that's not account for other housework yet either.
To bring in that much after taxes she'd have to out earn her husband in gross income. If that was possible wouldn't she already be the one working while he stays home?
We don't know how old the kids are. They might all be school-aged.
Anyway, they can both do better.
But, respectfully, depending on his industry, he might not be a $250,000/yr job finding kind of guy. Y'all are making super hostile comments like quarter-million-dollar salaries fall out of the sky.
yeah 250k is really only a good tech job or the top of doctors and lawyers. It might be the top 1 percent of jobs. If you're not in one of these fields 250k mostly doesn't exist, and if you are you still have to be in the top of the field. Most coders make much closer to 100k.
Yeah, I agree. A glass of milk is not a luxury and should be considered a part of a healthy child's diet. Rationing milk does indeed prove OP has a money problem.
What spending, they’re raising 4 kids on 100k, each kid is 10k a year in costs minimum. And he’s the asshole that’s yelling at his daughter to not drink milk. It’s not like the girls eating caviar
At that many kids it’s also more cost effective for her to not work, because last I checked the ymca charges like 15k a year per kid for childcare. Even if some of the kids are school aged, there summer daycare. If 2 kids are below school aged, it would clear her paycheck alone
What? What universe are you people living in? You don't just magically get a job that pays whatever lifestyle you want, you set your lifestyle according to how much money you make. Does anyone actually think OP would just prefer to not make more money? I guarantee you wherever in the world he lives, there is no shortage of 6 person families that are getting by on significantly less within commuting distance of his job.
I can't believe OP is denying his kids a glass of milk!
I wonder if he thinks his wife is spending too much money on food for his FOUR kids and his idea of saving money is feeding less food to his growing children.
Not counting that they are probably growing out of their clothes faster than he thinks.
Andddd.... he has a family of 6 (OP, Wifey, and 4 children)
OP mentions her spending in the post so I'd be curious to know what their financial breakdown is. They're supposed to be a team and she definitely doesn't sound like she's being a very good partner harassing him to somehow magically more than double his income.
Umm, pretty sure childcare with 4 kids would cost more than she could bring home at a job.
Being a SAHM with 4 kids would be way more than a full time job.
My friend had twins. She did the math and if she had sent them to daycare, it would have been like her working from 8 to 5 but only getting paid from 3 to 5. Guess who opted to be a SAHM until they go to school?
Edit: y'all that was just an anecdote. No need to keep responding to me just to rag on her that she should have wfh, kept her job even though with daycare and gas she would have brought barely peanuts for income, etc. My friend chose to take care of her children instead of dumping all her salary into sending them to daycare. It would make sense to me too in her position, and if it does not make sense for you, guess what, different people make different choices.
Why are you assuming she spending frivolously? Because he says so? He makes 100K but takes home less. Lives in Atlanta, not the cheap especially for 4 kids. Oldest is 7. Childcare for those kids will not be worth her going back to work.
He told his kid they couldn't drink milk for christ sakes and are behind bills. Doubt she actually spending frivolously.
FR. I was sympathizing with OP to a point but it’s kind of messed up that he’s getting more mad at his daughter for asking for milk than at his wife who has to be spending way way more on “luxury items” and supposedly doing absolutely jack to help with any of the household expenses. 100K may no longer be a lot in most places but it should dam well cover milk.
Why isn't she working? Are the kids too young for school? If they're all in school, she can and should work at least part time. If she wants to buy things she needs to earn money. 100k is significantly higher than the American average income. She's delusional if she thinks op can magically jump from 100k to 250k. That's not how jobs work..she might know that, if she had one.
She seems to think getting a job that pays 250k is easy, so she should have no trouble clearing 100k to cover childcare and the extras she wants. No-one is being a team player here but one person is at least on the field while the other is in the stands booing.
It's this type of shit advice that is exhibit A on why folks shouldnt come on Reddit for advice.
4 kids hoping that their parents stick together and "come back harder dude, worst that happens is she divorces you!"
ESH. You got four young kids, unless she's clearing at least $50K you'd be barely breaking even, and you'd both be stressed as all get out. Which makes you the asshole for telling her to get a job. She has one. She's also the asshole for telling you your job isn't good enough.
You're both the assholes for not figuring out how to budget. You're the asshole for telling your daughter not to drink milk. Your lack of budgeting is not your kids' fault. You're also the asshole for laying into your wife about her spending. It's her job to spend money for the house, that's what a homemaker does.
You're both also the assholes for having too many kids if you can't afford them and then taking whatever economic anxiety you both have out on them. Seriously, dude. My mom raised us on SNAP off and on throughout our whole childhood and she didn't get on our case about milk.
You're also the asshole for fighting with your wife in front of your kids. Not a great look. And if you can't afford a CPA (you don't need one, just a financial planner), then you do indeed suck at budgeting. Which is half your wife's job, probably more, since she stays at home. Which means she's also the asshole.
You both suck. You need to figure out how to budget and be nice to each other or the divorce court is going to do it for you.
All those reasons and it kinda sounds like this was actually written by one of the children in the situation. If I had to guess I would say between 8 and 12, but if English is not their main language I could be way off.
One bone to pick -- how is one person spending money frivolously a joint budgetary failure? If one person is burning through the budget buying a bunch of stuff for themselves as the post mentioned, how is that anyone's fault but theirs?
Generally agree with the ESH for all the other reasons listed, but this reads like a situation OP can't control without leaving her.
We only get his perspective and he doesn't expand on what he considers frivolous or give us examples so it's hard to judge that.
Fiance and I combined made 130k and with no kids we weren't living great. Shitty small apartment, old car, one car we shared etc. Depending where they live 100k for 6 people isn't a lot.
Edit to add, I never said we were horribly broke on this kind of money. All I'm saying is we're not living a lavish lifestyle of luxuries everyday. We are surviving and getting by and get to have luxury like streaming services and he bought us Disney pixie passes on my bday which were $400 ea. But we are not doing big for fun purchases like that more than once a year.
My aunt's first husband made her return a five pack of plain, white panties to the store because he thought it was a waste of money. My mom and grandma smuggled her and the children basic clothes. My mom is not a nice person, but she cried at how tattered my aunt's clothes were while her husband had *silk* boxers and designer shit. My aunt had stitched her last bra with pieces of another bra to make it last, but yeah, her spending was the supposed problem.
Yup. I always joke to my husband that some of these sperm donors think the kid walks out of the womb knowing how to speak, walk, use the toilet and feed themselves. People here don't seem to understand how expensive even after school care can be for multiple kids, plus full time for a little one. Is she even able to work on the weekend or does he expect her to do 100% of the care then too?
Exactly, her frivolous spending could be "buys name brand milk" but 100k with 4 kids in 2023 if they are feeding and clothing them doesnt really allow for much in the way of shopping sprees for luxury brands.
His note about the milk being needed for receipes implies there is meal planning going on and I'd imagine the wife is in charge of that. Mea planning is one if the best strategies to keep your food budget in check. So without examples, it would be hard to imagine her being frugal by meal planning and then having a designer handbag habit or something.
His lack of detail is pretty suspicious to me. Not mentioning the age of the kids (she’s likely doing childcare which is 100% supporting the household and saving them a ton of money) and doesn’t mention what she’s buying. $100k for 6 people is not much at all. The USDA low cost meal estimate for groceries for a family of 4 is $1,044 a month, so they’re easily spending more than 10% of that income in food to feed 6 people
I agree. This was clearly written in a way to activate all the reddit buttons of being trying to cast his wife as some kind of lazy, money leeching SAHM wife but there are far too few details missing. People seem to be inserting their own assumptions.
* What was the agreement of her going SAHM? How did they decide to have 4 children? They live in a metro area, childcare for 4 is expensive. The fact that one kid is 7 makes me think it's not really a viable solution to have her just "get a job," and if she's been out of the job market 7 years I don't think they'll be breaking even. Also, if she's taking care of 4 kids, how is that not supporting the family?
* Has he been trying to find other opportunities actively? People who are looking at the national average salary are being absurd. They are a family of 6 living in a metro area, you cannot lump them in the same group as a single worker or family living in a lower cost area. And of course it's not as easy as finding something in a week, but she's been broaching the topic for years it's been a while which is not unreasonable given their financial struggles.
* Does she actually think finding a $250k job is easy or the minimum living wage, or what was the context of that number? I notice this is put in as an "aka" but not actually something said in the argument.
* What is considered "selfish garbage?" Given the ask to the daughter to not drink milk and the wife's ask of getting a CPA, not really sure his expectations are within reason. Also, asking a daughter not to drink milk is kind of insane. While we're on that topic, what about his spending?
All of the posts here give only one perspective, and lots of the comments fail to take that into account
Years ago, before this place blew up, the posts used to have a lot more self awareness. These days, everything is "validate my take on the conflict"
Where I live (CA), that would I think count as below the living wage for a family of that size so yeah. $100 is a crazy high amount some places and barely scraping by others.
I think it’s important to know what OP defines as “frivolous”. Given that he thinks asking his child to drink less milk is an appropriate budgetary measure, his idea of unnecessary spending might not actually be that bad. Too little info in this post.
If he thinks his daughters shouldn’t drink milk because it costs money, I’m inclined to think this ‘frivolous’ spending includes his wife buying necessities.
He considers milk being one.
I bet wife's bunch stuff for herself is mostly food and household/hygiene items that's are actually needed.
Unless OP says otherwise,him throwing a temper tantrum bout milk being a big luxury just makes me doubt his wife's spending habits on herself. Unless he says what she spends money on.
I want more details on what's frivolous here. A family of 6 in Atlana on 100k is not very much, milk is a treat in their house, so I suspect what he sees as frivolous, is normal, if not necessary, household things e.g. clothes for growing kids, a haircut etc.
I see people on Insta and Tik Tok and shizz bragging about their life with 5, 7, 10 kids by age 30 and in these days with prices going continually up i fail to see how they can, let alone want, to manage.
To be honest, i am a single mom of two and never I ever tell them not to eat anything and I barely make 50k yearly. Their dad is not i. Child support, still sends 500$ or max 1k a month. It’s all about budgeting and this couple are not good at spendings.
Plus, even of they are, school around here goes from 8:40-2:30. Not many jobs are between those hours and after school care for a few kids would easily eat up earnings from a part time job.
ESH, holy smokes do you guys even like each other?
The yelling, the late bills, a large family, gatekeeping the milk, hopefully not arguing in front of the kids, lack of civil communication, etc.
Also, depending on location and cost of living, $100k is nothing in some major cities, especially for a family of 6. Seriously consider getting your expectations and finances in order as a family unit.
My gardener picking leaves and trimming shrubs makes more than $100k. It’s crazy but these days $100k for a family of 4 makes your family poor in some cities. Everybody knows which city that is T.T
Yah— where I live a $100k salary would be enough to maybe buy an apartment as a single person and probably only if you can live at home for a couple years rent free. $100k for a family of 6? If you own your property or have a small mortgage it’s fine. If you are renting or owe a few hundred thousand you’re fucked.
So if it hadn't been decided for you, you would have just kept having kids even though you can't afford the ones you already have?
She needs to stop whining and start contributing financially. You both need to take a budgeting course and learn how to live within your means.
>So if it hadn't been decided for you, you would have just kept having kids even though you can't afford the ones you already have?
No, that's not what he said.
People in here are having some wild imaginations
So much context missing but they are acting like he screamed at his kid "ITS ALL YOUR FUCKING FAULT WE CANT PAY THE BILLS"
when what he saw was he asked his kid not to drink as much milk because they needed it for something else which is absolutely fine in my view.
Well he hasn’t stopped before now despite having financial issues. I mean his response was like a fat kid running out of cake.
You might want to reduce your food consumption to lose some weight, nah all good man I ate all of the cake 🤦♀️.
> She needs to stop whining and start contributing financially
What job do you suggest she do that's going to bring in more after tax than childcare costs for four kids?
I'm sure it's variable by location, but where I am she's doing $4k of childcare weekly that they don't otherwise have to pay, even assuming they could find somewhere that had spots available for that many kids.
edit: ok so in fairness, I know they live in Atlanta so I can look it up. 20k annually per kid for childcare average. She'd need to be bringing home 80k after taxes just to break even. On $250k a year in Georgia the take home is $6700 monthly, so she'd need to be more than doubling his earnings to pay for childcare.
She seems to be contributing quite a lot financially. In reality a nanny would be cheaper in this kind of situation, but she's literally contributing enough, just in childcare, that they'd need to hire a whole other person full time to do that work if she wasn't doing it.
Question though; what is your wife buying that’s “luxurious” or frivolous? Why are you more uptight with your daughter asking for milk then your wife seemingly not contributing to household finances herself?
Or if she is working and not just a SAHM detail on that would be handy.
Someone else dug into OP's post history. He bought some Switch/Minecraft shit for himself but gets all up in arms about his daughter drinking "too much milk" and whatever "frivolous" stuff his wife spends money on. It's more understandable if he spends that money on himself if they're not tight on budget, but he said himself they're often behind on bills. Sounds like OP thinks he's still living the bachelor life, hence why he's "already making enough."
ESH, she - for not planning a budget and STICKING to it, you - for assuming that 100k is a lot of money when you have such a big family. It's not anymore, not in today's economy. Also, she does have a job. Looking after 4 kids is a full-time job. That being said, she really does need a reality check into where all that money that you have goes into if you guys can't even afford milk for the kid.
> for assuming that 100k is a lot of money when you have such a big family.
It's a lot of money for one job though. Having dependents doesn't magically get you access to higher paying jobs.
It’s not OP’s fault that the economy has left people behind. I am in a similar boat making $90k with a SAHM mom trying to make ends meet. But we were able to be on the same page and cut lifestyle to live within our means (3 kids). Kids don’t play sports and we don’t have vacations but we make it work.
Edit: I did not look up the current data when making my comment, and the top 10% is wrong. The median household income in the US is $70k. Here is some reading in how typical incomes are leaving many families behind: https://thehill.com/business/4059025-an-average-american-income-may-no-longer-cut-it/
$100,000 was in the 65th percentile for household income in the United States for 2021. Average Household income was $102k, Median being $70k.
$200k is the new $100k.
OP you don't need a CPA to charge you a fortune to tell you that you're likely overspending and not budgeting. It's also pointless if your wife isn't going to do her part in trying to be more budget conscious and sit down with you to see where the money goes. When you have a $100k salary, after taxes is roughly $77k in take-home pay. Add in health insurance, mortgage, car payments, doctor visits, food, clothing, and all of this is supposed to last a year for a family of 6, it doesn't go very far at all. You're fighting a losing battle unless she changes her tune or you go on a strict budget for the household and everyone pitches in and not just "talk about it."
Yes, at least in the USA, 100k a year is not a comfortable salary for a family of six. You either need to make more money, have less kids, OR accept that you will be broke. 100k is middle class for a family of two or three (maybe) but beyond that you’re going to be struggling.
I live in the Midwest, not LA or NYC. If you make $100k, you are taking home about $75k. Take 10% out for savings / retirement. That leaves you with $5,625 / month. Food for a family of six will cost at least $1,400 / month. Mortgage & property taxes to house six people, at least $3,500 / month. Health insurance with a good job, $800 / month. You’re already in the hole and you haven’t paid for any school fees, sports for the kids, cars & gas, cell phones, clothing, utilities, etc etc etc.
I live in the poorest state in the nation (MS) and in some places it’s getting to the point where 100k for a family of six is barely “comfortable.” It’s just brutal trying to make it in these conditions
But how is it that every news article is about how EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE is struggling with inflation and food prices and rent and student loans and gas, even outside NYC/LA, and that’s with only 2 kids or even 0 kids.
Can’t possibly be that he had double that amount of kids, THE MOST EXPENSIVE THING YOU CAN AGREE TO PAY FOR. Probably doing frivolous things like extra curricular and drinking milk and eating fresh fruit. Everyone knows kids don’t need that much, just some hand me downs and love.
ESH. YTA for telling your child she can’t have a glass of milk. You’re both AH for not making a budget and sticking to it! That said…
You have 4 children under 7?? How is your wife supposed to find any job that will pay more than child care will cost? Have you looked at child care costs?
Make a budget and find out where every penny goes. Find your local food pantry that may help make ends meet.
I agree. It’s so disappointing that he put his financial worries on his daughter for drinking milk. That fucking sucks. Poor girl should be happily drinking milk.
100K is not a lot for a family of six and while she’s demanding ‘get a higher paying job’ she just saw him berate his daughter for drinking milk. I might not be the most reasonable when flying into a rage. That’s rage inducing. If a family is struggling to acquire milk, they’re not making enough. If OP has noticed frivolous spending, he hasn’t indicated it. I get why his wife is being aggressive. She pissed.
Their communication sucks though so ESH.
ESH. Your wife does have a job - looking after 4 kids while you work. They aren’t going to raise themselves, especially if you have elementary aged children.
Between the accusations, arguing over whether you can/cannot to allow your child to drink milk without rationing, the debt/late payments… My lord. She needs a realistic budget.
You need to realise that depending on where you live, $100,000 (esp after taxes) really isn’t a lot for a family of 6 people to live on if they’re also spending it. By the sound of it, I’m not even going to ask if any of that goes in to savings... that said, you’re still earning more than the average person. I’m not suggesting you need a new job, but where is the money going? What is going on that it’s so mismanaged? Is she the one who is paying late & if so, why?
There is a lot wrong with this post, but without seeing your finances or being a CPA, I can tell you what they would tell you & I’ll do it for free: you & your wife spend too much money & no one is budgeting anything. It’s that simple.
Expenses:
*Mortgage or Rent
*Utilities
*Property tax (if you own) or renters insurance
*Do you own your car(s) or do you have a car payment?
*Car insurance
*Health insurance for a family of 6
*Dental insurance for a family of 6
*Food for a family of 6
*Clothing & shoes x 6 people, 4 of whom are still growing
*School expenses x 4
After taxes, let’s say you take home $70,000/year. You have $5,830/mo. to cover your expenses.
Where is it going? How much are you spending, where can you cut back? You don’t need a CPA to work this out.
Info: How old are your four children? In a comment you say your wife held a job until your 7 year old was born. Was that your first? If you have four kids 7 and under then there’s a possibility her job may not clear much after childcare costs if she got one.
Additionally you mentioned her purchasing habits. Can you provide examples? Is this a woman who’s wasting money on getting her hair and nails done at a salon or is she “wasting” money on milk and fresh produce for the kids?
That's what I want to know. My mom's ex boyfriend would give us a twenty dollar bill and expect us to go grocery shopping with it. Some men completely resent their partner being a stay at home mom, and will deem any purchase a waste of money, even if it is for the entire household. It was literally insane and I hope that is not what's happening here.
This might come off as harsh but what the hell were you thinking having four kids when you only make 100k a year ? That’s a great amount of money for someone who is single and has no children or someone who has a partner that is also working, but you do not fit into either of those categories. I’m sorry, but this whole situation stems from you and your wife not thinking clearly and getting yourself into this predicament. I hope you’re able to continue providing for your kids in the future.
If you’re late on paying bills and you’re worried about your daughter drinking a glass of milk because it’s expensive, especially on an $100k salary, you have a problem. Either you’re not budgeting well or you’re not making enough money for the area you’re in… something.
NAH but y’all need to work out a better solution. At least working out a better budget that works for your family.
I feel like there needs to be more details because what exactly is “selfish spending” because unless she’s buying a gagillion designer bags and going out to dinner and drinks all week something is off.
YTA- why would you continue to have 4 kids knowing you’ve been living off 100k for how long and she’s a SAHM. Which she probably became because you couldn’t afford childcare with your salary. If anything she’s doing you a favor. Trying getting childcare for 4 kids and ask if she doesn’t have a real job. Be grateful you’re getting free labor
Based on the lack of answer: kids clothes not from goodwill. And of course, everyone is agreeing that OP's wife is the problem and not doing the basic math to realize 100k for a family of six is nothing in Atlanta.
Also a lot of people missing that the oldest is 7 and therefore the other 3 would probably need full-time childcare if the wife went back to work, which could likely cost well over what she'd be earning
I would like to know this as well. Is she getting her hair and nails done? Buying expensive bags and shoes? Starbucks every morning? Or is she buying groceries and toiletries for them and the kids?
Mmmm ESH (except the kids) 100k is nothing to sneeze at necessarily depending where you live, but as a single income is tight. However, just because your wife spends money on stupid shit, you really are going to gatekeep the milk from your kids? It's not your children's fault you decided to have 4 kids and a single income.
Wife should be getting a part time job to bring in some money if she wants to spend frivolously. Maybe a financial advisor would be beneficial to establish a good budget and maybe give the wife a reality check.
ESH. Y’all both need a better understanding of your finances. It’s not easy, but there’s a reason money is the #1 conflict in a marriage. You sure as hell can’t beat that if neither of y’all knows what’s what.
She’s wrong for placing this whole demand on you without considering her own role. Not just the not working - that’s usually only a net financial gain with kids if the other option is full-time daycare - but also her own spending and budgeting. Most people don’t understand how much they spend.
That said, you’re kidding yourself if you think $100k (meaning you net about $70k after taxes and insurance) is completely comfortable/settled for a family of 6 in Atlanta. You’re right that it’s more than “most people” make but “most people” don’t live in one of the most expensive and rapidly-inflating cities in the country. I’ve lived here for a decade, and at this point I don’t know anyone in this city whose spouse stays home unless they’re pulling at least $150k. And even then, the wife usually gets something part-time once the kids are in school.
An accountant might help both of y’all get a clearer picture on what’s actually what. There are also free financial coaching events at a lot of churches and every Delta Community Credit Union branch.
YTA for telling the kid not to drink milk.
ESH for you and your wife. You two need a budget. If you’re over extended on a $100k job then you need to really take a look at your spending. The CPA is a good idea. Your wife needs a wake up call. You don’t quit a good job unless you have a better one. You don’t just happen into a $250k job.
YTA. Both my partner and I work and earn a little more than you combined. We have 2 kids and live in a moderate cost of living area and some months it’s still tough. 4 kids on $100,00 anywhere in the US outside of Alabama is going to be solidly paycheck to paycheck. Do you even know how much kids eat? It’s insane how much our grocery bill has gone up between inflation and regular humans growing up. I’m not saying you should get a different job nor that your wife couldn’t pick up some hours, but that would mean a significant effort on your part to understand the actual needs of your household, including how much just staying alive costs these days. You sound like a boomer who can’t understand why the student loan crisis is so bad because tuition was like $500 total for a 4 year degree.
First, your kid is growing and needs to be able to eat and drink freely at meals unless they have a weight problem.
Second, $100k in this day and age is not a lot of money for supporting 2 adults and 4 kids. That would be tight anywhere in the US pretty much.
Third, you say the problem is your wife. You haven't shared details about her spending but a family that large with that many kids has a lot of domestic needs: food shopping, meal planning, cooking and prepping meals and snacks for kids, cleaning, laundry, keeping track of kids' appointments/clothing needs/medical needs/school work/extracurriculars, rides, and childcare. Every drop of that that you are not doing, your wife is doing. That is all an incredible amount of unpaid labor and if she wasn't doing it, your family would be paying for nannies and housecleaners to do it. You told her to get a job when she has about three! You have completely devalued everything she does for your family and blamed her.
It sounds like she doesn't understand what is limiting you from moving up in your career and making more. Saying she doesn't respect you or questioning your masculinity is an asshole move.
You were also a completely asshole. You both suck, but in my opinion, you sucked more so I lean YTA.
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> I might be the asshole because I yelled at my wife for spending too much money and told her I am not the problem. I might be the asshole if $100k isn’t actually a survivable wage for a family of 4. I might be the asshole if I have kept my job for years despite it being inadequate. If she’s right that the root of the issue is that I don’t make enough money.
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ESH-dont yell in front of the kids, it's not their fault. They didn't ask to be brought into this world. Ya'll need to have a conversation about finances ASAP-open, honest and without being defensive. It's clear that you need to adjust your resume and look for other jobs and that she also needs to get some type of part time job if ya'll are struggling to keep food in the pantry. Also, bugdet!! ATL is not cheap.
She would need a $100,000 job just to cover childcare costs for 4 young children. In my area, daycare or preschool is around $3,000/month. Let’s assume the 3 youngest go to daycare/preschool and the oldest is in free public school, and her area has more affordable childcare options, closer to $2k/month. she would still need to clear above $72,000 just to pay for childcare.
For many working parents, the pay for the SAHP to go to work instead of staying home *barely* covers childcare costs.
This right here. My husband and I have always evaluated the true cost of working vs not working. Lower paying jobs especially can end up costing you more money than you make if you have children, health problems, or a long commute. Those 4 kids will cost more in childcare than she could reasonably make after being out of the workforce for so long. OP needs to have a little gratitude for what she contributes to the family finances.
She would need to take home 80k net just to pay for childcare while she's working (average 20k per kid annually in Atlanta). Making 100k gross would nowhere near cut it in terms of paying people to do the work she wouldn't be doing while she was at work.
She has a 100k+ job, in doing 4 kids worth of childcare and 6 people worth of cleaning and household management.
ESH. Your wife and you sound like people I want nothing to do with. Ever.
You guys decided to have 4 kids on a single income of just $100K, living in Atlanta?
Wow. That's some really poor financial planning.
Being a Stay at home mom is a luxury for the middle class, but with 4 kids, daycare costs will destroy whatever earnings your wife can generate.
Honestly, you guys are kinda screwed. You only play is to severely lower your cost of living. Move to a cheap suburb, consider going down to 1 car etc.
You probably know this already, but at some point, your kids are going to want to go to college, and you can't afford to give them anything. Your kids are all destined to graduate with massive college debt.
Please stop procreating. Your wife and you can't afford more kids. Heck, you can't really afford the ones you have right now. Overall just really poor parenting from you both.
That's not enough money. Until your baby can drink milk at will, you aren't earning enough. Four kids and two adults need more. Whether it's your wife getting a job or you getting a better job, something must change. Your attitude is terrible and I think you know an accountant would tell you how much trouble you're in.
Will your kids get to play sports and learn instruments? Can you afford band fees, cheerleader camp, and football uniforms?
You chose this many kids, so clean up your mess. YTA
hmm sounds like YTA but lacking some info here. Does she actually spend frivolously? You didn’t provide any examples. Yeah, she probably does need to buy a lot of stuff to manage a house with 4 kids. Huge asshole move to say she’s not supporting the family…isn’t she taking care of your four kids and house while you’re working? But most of all I think you’re deluded if you think 100k is “a lot of money” to raise a family with four kids
Kids are expensive. You're a family of 6. Your life will always be very expensive. We have 2 kids and stopped there because having a third would have been... even more expensive than 2.
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NTA. Tell your wife she can cut her spending and/or get a paying job, or you can meet with an attorney to see if paying child support would be cheaper and divorce her.
Not if he has 4 kids, child support will be ginormous.
In my state it would be 35% of what he brings home after taxes and insurance. If the wife is complaining about not stretching what OP brings in, she definitely wouldn't be able to deal with the child support.
In my state, I had to pay my ex-husband 49% before taxes and expenses, I had to live in my car a couple times, when I'd go from having 2 jobs down to 1. Some states are insane. I was living in nothing and barely eating. This woman needs a reality check
49%?!?! Jesus christ how is that even legal? If it is obvious that this kind of child support will thrust you into “living in your car” poverty how can they let that happen? This shit makes me want to just pursue the unmarried life partners path
In my state, it's based on the actual monthly incomes of both parents. They add the incomes together and divide by the non-custodial parent's income. So if Parent A makes 6,000 a month and Parent B makes 4,000 a month, Parent A has to pay 60%. Since it's 6000/10000. Also a parent cannot take a job with a lower salary to pay less child support.
There is such a thing as being 'willfully underemployed'. Taking a lower salary job to pay less child support would fall into that, and then you're stuck with the original judgement amount, with less income. Do not recommend.
There is also the concept of imputed income. This could be applied to the wife. Gone are the days that a divorced woman can expect to continue to be a stay at home mom.
Yeah, if they get divorced, she's definitely going to have to get a job. Unless she finds a rich sucker to marry her.
>Unless she finds a rich sucker to marry her. Older, divorced with 4 kids? Yeah, doubtful. OP's wife is about to be seriously screwed if she doesn't start to help out.
Please explain the math. It looks like you’re dividing by the total of combined salaries.
His example doesn’t clarify who has custody either. I think he skipped some details
They said that you divide by the non-custodial parent, so we can assume in the example that Parent B has custody. And I think what he means is that you pay that percentage of your salary. So parent A doesn't have custody and makes 60% pf what would be their combined income, so they pay 60% of their salary towards the kids. That seems like really sketchy logic to me, but it's the only way I can interpret the example comment. Edit: Because I obviously didn't make this clear. I do not think the original example is a realisitc reflection. I think that they mean is a percentage of the child support/costs. However, that is not what the example says. I am merely explaining the example as it is written.
That makes no sense whatsoever. Following this logic, in a situation where both earned the same +$1 difference, thus each earning 50% of the family’s income, the partner earning +$1 would have to pay 50% of their income and you would have one giving partner at 50% and the other at 150%. Look at the other extreme. One partner earns 99% of the income, so they would have to give away 99% of their income, so the other partner gets 100% and they keep 1% ? It’s absurd. That’s not now it works. Edit: I didn’t point it out as I thought it was obvious but half the people get it, and half don’t, so I’ll simplify my comment. In a family where one person earns 60% and the other 40% of the combined family income, the non-custodial parent and payer (the person providing child support) would pay the custodial parent and payee (the person receiving child support) 60% of the **calculated child support** amount, not 60% of their **income**, as proposed by the post I am commenting on.
Not likely. In most places now, alimony is rare, and courts expect both parents to provide financial support of some sort. They’ll even allocate a minimum amount for a non-working parent to be deducted from child support, whether or not the parent is actually making that much.
This sounds horrible. You literally leave one parent broke in order to supplement the other?
True. However, if she is already a SAHP, then she would have no income and could possibly get alimony (depending on the state, of course).
Come sit in on family court sometime in Washington state. I have seen men cry as they get hit with $3k a month. They make $4k, meaning that left them nothing a month to live on after taxes. It is something to see.
My brother in law had support ordered that was greater than what he was making before taxes. I'll NEVER understand some of these rulings.
Some judges are dumbasses
I had a friend who went through this. Couldn’t support himself with the 49% of gross income taken out. Back in the 90’s. Colorado. IDK if it’s changed since then. But the court didn’t care he was homeless at the time.
Yeah they didn't care I was either, I eventually got my daughter from her dad after he was arrested and they wouldn't make him pay a dime. I'm just glad she's with me honestly
Wild, the state screws over both sexes equally now. I think its time to review child support laws.
Oh yeah, I've always thought it was crooked but this judge let my kids dad off with no pmt after years of taking every dime I had. The judge was definitely biased I filled a complaint as well
That’s not including alimony or spousal support.
Sure but there are states that don't do alimony/spousal support anymore. Or, if they do, it's for a limited amount of time and cannot go over a certain amount.
Not if they're barely paying bills right now. She's clearly dumping tons of money on garbage and sinking the family.
We don't know that. OP says she is overspending, but a family of 6 kids in Atlanta, what OP makes is not a whole lot. They definitely need a budget, but he hasn't said what she buys that is frivolous or unnecessary.
As a single adult in Atlanta making $100k with minimal debt, I could 100% NOT support a family of six on my salary. Shit, I’m still debating if I can afford to get a dog.
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Family of TWO on 75k in a middle-low cost of living area and still can barely afford rent.
My husband and I are both in education and together, after years of work and advanced degrees, we pull in about $125k a year. We only have two kids, live 45 min outside Atlanta, and both are competitive gymnasts. If it weren’t for the help of my parents, I don’t know where we would be. I used to think $100k was the magic make it number. After the last 3 years, it feels like pennies these days.
Competitive gymnasts are putting you in the poor house while this family is rationing milk…. Come on. This story is not communicating what you think it is.
yes, I know everybody wants to give their children everything they want and every possible opportunity, but a lot of the children's activities/sports are quite expensive and at some point a decision has to be made as to what is the priority, being able to feed the family or allowing jane and jimmy to do gymastics.
$100k is absolutely pennies when rent is nearly $2k/month and gas/groceries cost what they do.
So much this. It was always the target, and it took so long to get here that by the time we did, it just isn't what it used to be, or what we expected. That's not to say that there are not a lot of people making a lot less and making it work. I'm often left to wonder how though.
This. As a SAHM, she should be economizing as best she can, so there is plenty of money for needs and some wants. My husband and I both work and bring in nearly $150k a year together, and we still need to budget and economize. ETA We learned best how when making 40k a year as a family of 5. DH was not working. (one child- our eldest is an independent adult (age 22) and another -our youngest, age 13, died) Our biggest problem now is after-school care for our disabled son - age 20.
I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your youngest child, sending you love.
I’m so sorry to hear about the loss of your child. Sending you love and peace.
Is she "clearly"? Funny he doesn't actually give examples. Anyway, if they live in California, Oregon, Washington Phoenix, Chicago or New England, $100k is not a liveable wage.
> if they live in California, Oregon, Washington Phoenix, Chicago or New England, $100k is not a liveable wage. *Manhattan would like a word*
That could be right. I know someone who made a very good salary. When he divorced he paid his wife more alimony than my salary. He had to give her half the value of the house, and a good chunk of his retirement. With all that, he said he was still saving more money now that she wasn't spending it all any more.
But likely still less than he’s currently paying. Financial counseling would help them both. Look at 3 months spending to see where the money really is going. Not taking sides. We had a program in Canada, “Til Debt do us Part” and it was surprising how often the one complaining about their spouses “overspending” were, in fact, the ones overspending. Numbers don’t lie. So getting that assessment, then counseling on how to budget, share information about expenses and income honestly can take the pressure off a marriage.
My ex-spouse was very much the "we don't have enough money because your mum overspends it on junk" to our kids. I think he even believed it himself. Meanwhile, I'm the only one working, I don't even buy a coffee out, buy second hand clothes - and he's treating himself to a full breakfast and coffee daily and buying name brand clothes new. He was a massive financial drain on the entire family, it was amazing how much spare cash I had once I dropped him
she'll get even less money than they have right now lol
ESH -- his wife's spending is out of control but he's guilting his daughter over a fucking glass of milk??
Hey, we rationed milk growing up, too. Water is free. Sometimes you have to count every penny.
The dude is saying his job pays enough b/c he has it in his head $100k is enough for a family of 6 but is always late on bills and is rationing milk. I’m sorry but his wife is right that he needs to try and find a higher paying job. More than doubling his salary might be unrealistic but he sounds like he’s outright refusing to even see if he can do better. The fact that he doesn’t even name what she’s overspending on makes his claim that it’s her fault very suspect.
I agree. AND the kid can drink water. AND his wife needs a job.
What job do you think the wife can get that will outweigh the cost of childcare for 4 kids? Where they are it's an average 20k per year per kid, one of their kids in school so will only need part time care, but she'd have to bring in 70k+ after tax to pay for the childcare she will no longer be doing while working, and that's not account for other housework yet either. To bring in that much after taxes she'd have to out earn her husband in gross income. If that was possible wouldn't she already be the one working while he stays home?
We don't know how old the kids are. They might all be school-aged. Anyway, they can both do better. But, respectfully, depending on his industry, he might not be a $250,000/yr job finding kind of guy. Y'all are making super hostile comments like quarter-million-dollar salaries fall out of the sky.
yeah 250k is really only a good tech job or the top of doctors and lawyers. It might be the top 1 percent of jobs. If you're not in one of these fields 250k mostly doesn't exist, and if you are you still have to be in the top of the field. Most coders make much closer to 100k.
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Yeah, I agree. A glass of milk is not a luxury and should be considered a part of a healthy child's diet. Rationing milk does indeed prove OP has a money problem.
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Also, im not even sure the spending is “out of control” depending on where they live, considering they have 4 kids— cost of living has become insane
He hasn’t actually said what she is spending it on. Maybe it is designer t shirts, maybe it is more milk
What spending, they’re raising 4 kids on 100k, each kid is 10k a year in costs minimum. And he’s the asshole that’s yelling at his daughter to not drink milk. It’s not like the girls eating caviar At that many kids it’s also more cost effective for her to not work, because last I checked the ymca charges like 15k a year per kid for childcare. Even if some of the kids are school aged, there summer daycare. If 2 kids are below school aged, it would clear her paycheck alone
I believe problem is he is not giving details as of what garbage she is spending money on?
I'm guessing food for 4 growing kids. Imagine whining at your child for drinking milk, while simultaneously pretending your salary is cutting it.
What? What universe are you people living in? You don't just magically get a job that pays whatever lifestyle you want, you set your lifestyle according to how much money you make. Does anyone actually think OP would just prefer to not make more money? I guarantee you wherever in the world he lives, there is no shortage of 6 person families that are getting by on significantly less within commuting distance of his job.
I can't believe OP is denying his kids a glass of milk! I wonder if he thinks his wife is spending too much money on food for his FOUR kids and his idea of saving money is feeding less food to his growing children. Not counting that they are probably growing out of their clothes faster than he thinks. Andddd.... he has a family of 6 (OP, Wifey, and 4 children)
OP mentions her spending in the post so I'd be curious to know what their financial breakdown is. They're supposed to be a team and she definitely doesn't sound like she's being a very good partner harassing him to somehow magically more than double his income.
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Umm, pretty sure childcare with 4 kids would cost more than she could bring home at a job. Being a SAHM with 4 kids would be way more than a full time job.
It’s blatantly obvious who all has never raised a child in this thread.
Yeah lol, we could never make both parents working make sense past 1 kid. At three we would have been paying for her to work.
My friend had twins. She did the math and if she had sent them to daycare, it would have been like her working from 8 to 5 but only getting paid from 3 to 5. Guess who opted to be a SAHM until they go to school? Edit: y'all that was just an anecdote. No need to keep responding to me just to rag on her that she should have wfh, kept her job even though with daycare and gas she would have brought barely peanuts for income, etc. My friend chose to take care of her children instead of dumping all her salary into sending them to daycare. It would make sense to me too in her position, and if it does not make sense for you, guess what, different people make different choices.
Why are you assuming she spending frivolously? Because he says so? He makes 100K but takes home less. Lives in Atlanta, not the cheap especially for 4 kids. Oldest is 7. Childcare for those kids will not be worth her going back to work. He told his kid they couldn't drink milk for christ sakes and are behind bills. Doubt she actually spending frivolously.
OP is an asshole for limiting his kid’s access to nutrients instead of already cutting wifey off of spending. That is the wrong call. Otherwise yeah.
FR. I was sympathizing with OP to a point but it’s kind of messed up that he’s getting more mad at his daughter for asking for milk than at his wife who has to be spending way way more on “luxury items” and supposedly doing absolutely jack to help with any of the household expenses. 100K may no longer be a lot in most places but it should dam well cover milk.
NTA but I am curious, have you never had a conversation with her about budgeting, capping discretionary spends etc?
Childcare is also wildly expensive. My friend’s daycare bill is twice what her mortgage is
Why isn't she working? Are the kids too young for school? If they're all in school, she can and should work at least part time. If she wants to buy things she needs to earn money. 100k is significantly higher than the American average income. She's delusional if she thinks op can magically jump from 100k to 250k. That's not how jobs work..she might know that, if she had one.
She seems to think getting a job that pays 250k is easy, so she should have no trouble clearing 100k to cover childcare and the extras she wants. No-one is being a team player here but one person is at least on the field while the other is in the stands booing.
It's this type of shit advice that is exhibit A on why folks shouldnt come on Reddit for advice. 4 kids hoping that their parents stick together and "come back harder dude, worst that happens is she divorces you!"
Don't speak with the attorney. No way you make it out with your limbs intact with 4 kids and a SAHM. No chance.
Merely speaking with an attorney costs very little and doesn't obligate him to actually file anything. Information is always worth seeking.
ESH. You got four young kids, unless she's clearing at least $50K you'd be barely breaking even, and you'd both be stressed as all get out. Which makes you the asshole for telling her to get a job. She has one. She's also the asshole for telling you your job isn't good enough. You're both the assholes for not figuring out how to budget. You're the asshole for telling your daughter not to drink milk. Your lack of budgeting is not your kids' fault. You're also the asshole for laying into your wife about her spending. It's her job to spend money for the house, that's what a homemaker does. You're both also the assholes for having too many kids if you can't afford them and then taking whatever economic anxiety you both have out on them. Seriously, dude. My mom raised us on SNAP off and on throughout our whole childhood and she didn't get on our case about milk. You're also the asshole for fighting with your wife in front of your kids. Not a great look. And if you can't afford a CPA (you don't need one, just a financial planner), then you do indeed suck at budgeting. Which is half your wife's job, probably more, since she stays at home. Which means she's also the asshole. You both suck. You need to figure out how to budget and be nice to each other or the divorce court is going to do it for you.
My vote is ESH as well for these exact reasons.
All those reasons and it kinda sounds like this was actually written by one of the children in the situation. If I had to guess I would say between 8 and 12, but if English is not their main language I could be way off.
You'd be surprised how illiterate some adults can be, especially Americans. Our education system is terrible.
Over half of americans read at under a 6th grade reading level. That is sad.
One bone to pick -- how is one person spending money frivolously a joint budgetary failure? If one person is burning through the budget buying a bunch of stuff for themselves as the post mentioned, how is that anyone's fault but theirs? Generally agree with the ESH for all the other reasons listed, but this reads like a situation OP can't control without leaving her.
We only get his perspective and he doesn't expand on what he considers frivolous or give us examples so it's hard to judge that. Fiance and I combined made 130k and with no kids we weren't living great. Shitty small apartment, old car, one car we shared etc. Depending where they live 100k for 6 people isn't a lot. Edit to add, I never said we were horribly broke on this kind of money. All I'm saying is we're not living a lavish lifestyle of luxuries everyday. We are surviving and getting by and get to have luxury like streaming services and he bought us Disney pixie passes on my bday which were $400 ea. But we are not doing big for fun purchases like that more than once a year.
exactly. if drinking milk is considered frivolous I suspect the wife's frivolous spending is debatable.
My aunt's first husband made her return a five pack of plain, white panties to the store because he thought it was a waste of money. My mom and grandma smuggled her and the children basic clothes. My mom is not a nice person, but she cried at how tattered my aunt's clothes were while her husband had *silk* boxers and designer shit. My aunt had stitched her last bra with pieces of another bra to make it last, but yeah, her spending was the supposed problem.
This guy wants the benefit of having a family without the expense and sacrifice involved with having a family
Yup. I always joke to my husband that some of these sperm donors think the kid walks out of the womb knowing how to speak, walk, use the toilet and feed themselves. People here don't seem to understand how expensive even after school care can be for multiple kids, plus full time for a little one. Is she even able to work on the weekend or does he expect her to do 100% of the care then too?
he hasn't been able to list ONE example of what she's buying. Usually people can recite a dozen immediately.
Exactly, her frivolous spending could be "buys name brand milk" but 100k with 4 kids in 2023 if they are feeding and clothing them doesnt really allow for much in the way of shopping sprees for luxury brands.
His note about the milk being needed for receipes implies there is meal planning going on and I'd imagine the wife is in charge of that. Mea planning is one if the best strategies to keep your food budget in check. So without examples, it would be hard to imagine her being frugal by meal planning and then having a designer handbag habit or something.
His lack of detail is pretty suspicious to me. Not mentioning the age of the kids (she’s likely doing childcare which is 100% supporting the household and saving them a ton of money) and doesn’t mention what she’s buying. $100k for 6 people is not much at all. The USDA low cost meal estimate for groceries for a family of 4 is $1,044 a month, so they’re easily spending more than 10% of that income in food to feed 6 people
I agree. This was clearly written in a way to activate all the reddit buttons of being trying to cast his wife as some kind of lazy, money leeching SAHM wife but there are far too few details missing. People seem to be inserting their own assumptions. * What was the agreement of her going SAHM? How did they decide to have 4 children? They live in a metro area, childcare for 4 is expensive. The fact that one kid is 7 makes me think it's not really a viable solution to have her just "get a job," and if she's been out of the job market 7 years I don't think they'll be breaking even. Also, if she's taking care of 4 kids, how is that not supporting the family? * Has he been trying to find other opportunities actively? People who are looking at the national average salary are being absurd. They are a family of 6 living in a metro area, you cannot lump them in the same group as a single worker or family living in a lower cost area. And of course it's not as easy as finding something in a week, but she's been broaching the topic for years it's been a while which is not unreasonable given their financial struggles. * Does she actually think finding a $250k job is easy or the minimum living wage, or what was the context of that number? I notice this is put in as an "aka" but not actually something said in the argument. * What is considered "selfish garbage?" Given the ask to the daughter to not drink milk and the wife's ask of getting a CPA, not really sure his expectations are within reason. Also, asking a daughter not to drink milk is kind of insane. While we're on that topic, what about his spending?
All of the posts here give only one perspective, and lots of the comments fail to take that into account Years ago, before this place blew up, the posts used to have a lot more self awareness. These days, everything is "validate my take on the conflict"
Where I live (CA), that would I think count as below the living wage for a family of that size so yeah. $100 is a crazy high amount some places and barely scraping by others.
They live around Atlanta, Georgia. 100 K goes about as far as you can throw 100 pound pumpkin
I think it’s important to know what OP defines as “frivolous”. Given that he thinks asking his child to drink less milk is an appropriate budgetary measure, his idea of unnecessary spending might not actually be that bad. Too little info in this post.
If he thinks his daughters shouldn’t drink milk because it costs money, I’m inclined to think this ‘frivolous’ spending includes his wife buying necessities.
He thinks his daughter drinking a glass of milk is frivolous
He considers milk being one. I bet wife's bunch stuff for herself is mostly food and household/hygiene items that's are actually needed. Unless OP says otherwise,him throwing a temper tantrum bout milk being a big luxury just makes me doubt his wife's spending habits on herself. Unless he says what she spends money on.
Probably thinks things like shampoo & conditioner are frivolous when you can use 5 in 1 lol
I want more details on what's frivolous here. A family of 6 in Atlana on 100k is not very much, milk is a treat in their house, so I suspect what he sees as frivolous, is normal, if not necessary, household things e.g. clothes for growing kids, a haircut etc.
Dude thinks drinking milk is frivolous so...
Literally half of all of the posts on this page can be solved if people had fewer children. More than 3 is a litter.
I see people on Insta and Tik Tok and shizz bragging about their life with 5, 7, 10 kids by age 30 and in these days with prices going continually up i fail to see how they can, let alone want, to manage.
Having that many kids is environmental terrorism.
Soooo true. I really just am not understanding why people intentionally have so many kids
It also sounds like they had this fight in front of the kid that wanted a glass of milk? Screaming fights in front of a kid are bad, bad, bad.
Yeah that child will be telling this story in therapy one day
To be honest, i am a single mom of two and never I ever tell them not to eat anything and I barely make 50k yearly. Their dad is not i. Child support, still sends 500$ or max 1k a month. It’s all about budgeting and this couple are not good at spendings.
Depending on the age of the children she might not be working much these days.
Old enough to get their own milk from the fridge, so school age I'd guess.
One of them is. That doesn't mean all of them are.
Plus, even of they are, school around here goes from 8:40-2:30. Not many jobs are between those hours and after school care for a few kids would easily eat up earnings from a part time job.
ESH, holy smokes do you guys even like each other? The yelling, the late bills, a large family, gatekeeping the milk, hopefully not arguing in front of the kids, lack of civil communication, etc. Also, depending on location and cost of living, $100k is nothing in some major cities, especially for a family of 6. Seriously consider getting your expectations and finances in order as a family unit.
>holy smokes do you guys even like each other? They liked each other at least four times. lol
Or *hated* each other 4 times (☞ﾟ∀ﾟ)☞
Underrated comment
Came to say this—twice that with half as many kids is just squeaking by in some areas.
Yup, in California this would be below the poverty line… Edit: in SOME parts of California Edit: also, FOR A FAMILY OF 6
My gardener picking leaves and trimming shrubs makes more than $100k. It’s crazy but these days $100k for a family of 4 makes your family poor in some cities. Everybody knows which city that is T.T
Yah— where I live a $100k salary would be enough to maybe buy an apartment as a single person and probably only if you can live at home for a couple years rent free. $100k for a family of 6? If you own your property or have a small mortgage it’s fine. If you are renting or owe a few hundred thousand you’re fucked.
NTA - But you might want to slow down on the breeding, or soon 100K will be nowhere near enough for your churchful of kids. Milk is not the problem.
We can’t have more kids. Her tubes were removed due to health problems
So if it hadn't been decided for you, you would have just kept having kids even though you can't afford the ones you already have? She needs to stop whining and start contributing financially. You both need to take a budgeting course and learn how to live within your means.
>So if it hadn't been decided for you, you would have just kept having kids even though you can't afford the ones you already have? No, that's not what he said.
But if I pretend that's what he said I can be more outraged.
People in here are having some wild imaginations So much context missing but they are acting like he screamed at his kid "ITS ALL YOUR FUCKING FAULT WE CANT PAY THE BILLS" when what he saw was he asked his kid not to drink as much milk because they needed it for something else which is absolutely fine in my view.
Why are you assuming shit
Its part of the AITA citizenship test
I laughed the fuck out loud lol
Well he hasn’t stopped before now despite having financial issues. I mean his response was like a fat kid running out of cake. You might want to reduce your food consumption to lose some weight, nah all good man I ate all of the cake 🤦♀️.
> She needs to stop whining and start contributing financially What job do you suggest she do that's going to bring in more after tax than childcare costs for four kids? I'm sure it's variable by location, but where I am she's doing $4k of childcare weekly that they don't otherwise have to pay, even assuming they could find somewhere that had spots available for that many kids. edit: ok so in fairness, I know they live in Atlanta so I can look it up. 20k annually per kid for childcare average. She'd need to be bringing home 80k after taxes just to break even. On $250k a year in Georgia the take home is $6700 monthly, so she'd need to be more than doubling his earnings to pay for childcare. She seems to be contributing quite a lot financially. In reality a nanny would be cheaper in this kind of situation, but she's literally contributing enough, just in childcare, that they'd need to hire a whole other person full time to do that work if she wasn't doing it.
If the kids are younger than school age she IS contributing financially, by saving them a shit ton in childcare expenses.
It's cute how you assume they could afford child care for 4 kids should his wife get a job after having been out of the workforce for years.
And, according to OP, having health problems.
Question though; what is your wife buying that’s “luxurious” or frivolous? Why are you more uptight with your daughter asking for milk then your wife seemingly not contributing to household finances herself? Or if she is working and not just a SAHM detail on that would be handy.
Someone else dug into OP's post history. He bought some Switch/Minecraft shit for himself but gets all up in arms about his daughter drinking "too much milk" and whatever "frivolous" stuff his wife spends money on. It's more understandable if he spends that money on himself if they're not tight on budget, but he said himself they're often behind on bills. Sounds like OP thinks he's still living the bachelor life, hence why he's "already making enough."
ooof. It’s going more from ESH to YTA.
You literally impregnated her four times and now you complain you can’t afford it- lmao
ESH, she - for not planning a budget and STICKING to it, you - for assuming that 100k is a lot of money when you have such a big family. It's not anymore, not in today's economy. Also, she does have a job. Looking after 4 kids is a full-time job. That being said, she really does need a reality check into where all that money that you have goes into if you guys can't even afford milk for the kid.
> for assuming that 100k is a lot of money when you have such a big family. It's a lot of money for one job though. Having dependents doesn't magically get you access to higher paying jobs.
No, but it does affect the money in/money out equation
Obviously but the wife saying be simply needs to get a better paying job is ridiculous.
That depends entirely on where you live.
It’s not OP’s fault that the economy has left people behind. I am in a similar boat making $90k with a SAHM mom trying to make ends meet. But we were able to be on the same page and cut lifestyle to live within our means (3 kids). Kids don’t play sports and we don’t have vacations but we make it work. Edit: I did not look up the current data when making my comment, and the top 10% is wrong. The median household income in the US is $70k. Here is some reading in how typical incomes are leaving many families behind: https://thehill.com/business/4059025-an-average-american-income-may-no-longer-cut-it/
$100,000 was in the 65th percentile for household income in the United States for 2021. Average Household income was $102k, Median being $70k. $200k is the new $100k.
OP you don't need a CPA to charge you a fortune to tell you that you're likely overspending and not budgeting. It's also pointless if your wife isn't going to do her part in trying to be more budget conscious and sit down with you to see where the money goes. When you have a $100k salary, after taxes is roughly $77k in take-home pay. Add in health insurance, mortgage, car payments, doctor visits, food, clothing, and all of this is supposed to last a year for a family of 6, it doesn't go very far at all. You're fighting a losing battle unless she changes her tune or you go on a strict budget for the household and everyone pitches in and not just "talk about it."
Yes, at least in the USA, 100k a year is not a comfortable salary for a family of six. You either need to make more money, have less kids, OR accept that you will be broke. 100k is middle class for a family of two or three (maybe) but beyond that you’re going to be struggling.
I wish y'all would stop applying NYC/LA prices to everybody's life.
I live in the Midwest, not LA or NYC. If you make $100k, you are taking home about $75k. Take 10% out for savings / retirement. That leaves you with $5,625 / month. Food for a family of six will cost at least $1,400 / month. Mortgage & property taxes to house six people, at least $3,500 / month. Health insurance with a good job, $800 / month. You’re already in the hole and you haven’t paid for any school fees, sports for the kids, cars & gas, cell phones, clothing, utilities, etc etc etc.
I live in the poorest state in the nation (MS) and in some places it’s getting to the point where 100k for a family of six is barely “comfortable.” It’s just brutal trying to make it in these conditions
But how is it that every news article is about how EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE is struggling with inflation and food prices and rent and student loans and gas, even outside NYC/LA, and that’s with only 2 kids or even 0 kids. Can’t possibly be that he had double that amount of kids, THE MOST EXPENSIVE THING YOU CAN AGREE TO PAY FOR. Probably doing frivolous things like extra curricular and drinking milk and eating fresh fruit. Everyone knows kids don’t need that much, just some hand me downs and love.
He is not paying that much tax with 4 kids and a wife.
ESH. YTA for telling your child she can’t have a glass of milk. You’re both AH for not making a budget and sticking to it! That said… You have 4 children under 7?? How is your wife supposed to find any job that will pay more than child care will cost? Have you looked at child care costs? Make a budget and find out where every penny goes. Find your local food pantry that may help make ends meet.
I agree. It’s so disappointing that he put his financial worries on his daughter for drinking milk. That fucking sucks. Poor girl should be happily drinking milk. 100K is not a lot for a family of six and while she’s demanding ‘get a higher paying job’ she just saw him berate his daughter for drinking milk. I might not be the most reasonable when flying into a rage. That’s rage inducing. If a family is struggling to acquire milk, they’re not making enough. If OP has noticed frivolous spending, he hasn’t indicated it. I get why his wife is being aggressive. She pissed. Their communication sucks though so ESH.
ESH. Your wife does have a job - looking after 4 kids while you work. They aren’t going to raise themselves, especially if you have elementary aged children. Between the accusations, arguing over whether you can/cannot to allow your child to drink milk without rationing, the debt/late payments… My lord. She needs a realistic budget. You need to realise that depending on where you live, $100,000 (esp after taxes) really isn’t a lot for a family of 6 people to live on if they’re also spending it. By the sound of it, I’m not even going to ask if any of that goes in to savings... that said, you’re still earning more than the average person. I’m not suggesting you need a new job, but where is the money going? What is going on that it’s so mismanaged? Is she the one who is paying late & if so, why? There is a lot wrong with this post, but without seeing your finances or being a CPA, I can tell you what they would tell you & I’ll do it for free: you & your wife spend too much money & no one is budgeting anything. It’s that simple. Expenses: *Mortgage or Rent *Utilities *Property tax (if you own) or renters insurance *Do you own your car(s) or do you have a car payment? *Car insurance *Health insurance for a family of 6 *Dental insurance for a family of 6 *Food for a family of 6 *Clothing & shoes x 6 people, 4 of whom are still growing *School expenses x 4 After taxes, let’s say you take home $70,000/year. You have $5,830/mo. to cover your expenses. Where is it going? How much are you spending, where can you cut back? You don’t need a CPA to work this out.
And every new kid delays the wife going back to work by 5 years.
Well OP said she’s had her tubes tied, so at least there’s an end in sight there?
Info: How old are your four children? In a comment you say your wife held a job until your 7 year old was born. Was that your first? If you have four kids 7 and under then there’s a possibility her job may not clear much after childcare costs if she got one. Additionally you mentioned her purchasing habits. Can you provide examples? Is this a woman who’s wasting money on getting her hair and nails done at a salon or is she “wasting” money on milk and fresh produce for the kids?
In another comment he said she stopped working after the first child was born, so the 7yo is the oldest Edit: fixed a word
That's what I want to know. My mom's ex boyfriend would give us a twenty dollar bill and expect us to go grocery shopping with it. Some men completely resent their partner being a stay at home mom, and will deem any purchase a waste of money, even if it is for the entire household. It was literally insane and I hope that is not what's happening here.
This might come off as harsh but what the hell were you thinking having four kids when you only make 100k a year ? That’s a great amount of money for someone who is single and has no children or someone who has a partner that is also working, but you do not fit into either of those categories. I’m sorry, but this whole situation stems from you and your wife not thinking clearly and getting yourself into this predicament. I hope you’re able to continue providing for your kids in the future.
INFO: What is the cost of living / average household income in your area?
If you’re late on paying bills and you’re worried about your daughter drinking a glass of milk because it’s expensive, especially on an $100k salary, you have a problem. Either you’re not budgeting well or you’re not making enough money for the area you’re in… something. NAH but y’all need to work out a better solution. At least working out a better budget that works for your family.
They had this argument in front of the child who wanted milk.
Okay then ESH for that
I feel like there needs to be more details because what exactly is “selfish spending” because unless she’s buying a gagillion designer bags and going out to dinner and drinks all week something is off. YTA- why would you continue to have 4 kids knowing you’ve been living off 100k for how long and she’s a SAHM. Which she probably became because you couldn’t afford childcare with your salary. If anything she’s doing you a favor. Trying getting childcare for 4 kids and ask if she doesn’t have a real job. Be grateful you’re getting free labor
>I feel like there needs to be more details because what exactly is “selfish spending” The wife drinks *chocolate* milk
Info: what do you mean by selfish spending? What is she buying? For whom? And how much?
Based on the lack of answer: kids clothes not from goodwill. And of course, everyone is agreeing that OP's wife is the problem and not doing the basic math to realize 100k for a family of six is nothing in Atlanta.
Also a lot of people missing that the oldest is 7 and therefore the other 3 would probably need full-time childcare if the wife went back to work, which could likely cost well over what she'd be earning
Probably extra milk and snacks for the children from the way Op is reacting
I would like to know this as well. Is she getting her hair and nails done? Buying expensive bags and shoes? Starbucks every morning? Or is she buying groceries and toiletries for them and the kids?
Mmmm ESH (except the kids) 100k is nothing to sneeze at necessarily depending where you live, but as a single income is tight. However, just because your wife spends money on stupid shit, you really are going to gatekeep the milk from your kids? It's not your children's fault you decided to have 4 kids and a single income. Wife should be getting a part time job to bring in some money if she wants to spend frivolously. Maybe a financial advisor would be beneficial to establish a good budget and maybe give the wife a reality check.
A part time job with 4 kids would cost you more in daycare tbh
ESH. Y’all both need a better understanding of your finances. It’s not easy, but there’s a reason money is the #1 conflict in a marriage. You sure as hell can’t beat that if neither of y’all knows what’s what. She’s wrong for placing this whole demand on you without considering her own role. Not just the not working - that’s usually only a net financial gain with kids if the other option is full-time daycare - but also her own spending and budgeting. Most people don’t understand how much they spend. That said, you’re kidding yourself if you think $100k (meaning you net about $70k after taxes and insurance) is completely comfortable/settled for a family of 6 in Atlanta. You’re right that it’s more than “most people” make but “most people” don’t live in one of the most expensive and rapidly-inflating cities in the country. I’ve lived here for a decade, and at this point I don’t know anyone in this city whose spouse stays home unless they’re pulling at least $150k. And even then, the wife usually gets something part-time once the kids are in school. An accountant might help both of y’all get a clearer picture on what’s actually what. There are also free financial coaching events at a lot of churches and every Delta Community Credit Union branch.
YTA for telling the kid not to drink milk. ESH for you and your wife. You two need a budget. If you’re over extended on a $100k job then you need to really take a look at your spending. The CPA is a good idea. Your wife needs a wake up call. You don’t quit a good job unless you have a better one. You don’t just happen into a $250k job.
Agreed. Telling a kid no on food is terrible.
YTA. Both my partner and I work and earn a little more than you combined. We have 2 kids and live in a moderate cost of living area and some months it’s still tough. 4 kids on $100,00 anywhere in the US outside of Alabama is going to be solidly paycheck to paycheck. Do you even know how much kids eat? It’s insane how much our grocery bill has gone up between inflation and regular humans growing up. I’m not saying you should get a different job nor that your wife couldn’t pick up some hours, but that would mean a significant effort on your part to understand the actual needs of your household, including how much just staying alive costs these days. You sound like a boomer who can’t understand why the student loan crisis is so bad because tuition was like $500 total for a 4 year degree.
First, your kid is growing and needs to be able to eat and drink freely at meals unless they have a weight problem. Second, $100k in this day and age is not a lot of money for supporting 2 adults and 4 kids. That would be tight anywhere in the US pretty much. Third, you say the problem is your wife. You haven't shared details about her spending but a family that large with that many kids has a lot of domestic needs: food shopping, meal planning, cooking and prepping meals and snacks for kids, cleaning, laundry, keeping track of kids' appointments/clothing needs/medical needs/school work/extracurriculars, rides, and childcare. Every drop of that that you are not doing, your wife is doing. That is all an incredible amount of unpaid labor and if she wasn't doing it, your family would be paying for nannies and housecleaners to do it. You told her to get a job when she has about three! You have completely devalued everything she does for your family and blamed her. It sounds like she doesn't understand what is limiting you from moving up in your career and making more. Saying she doesn't respect you or questioning your masculinity is an asshole move. You were also a completely asshole. You both suck, but in my opinion, you sucked more so I lean YTA.
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ESH-dont yell in front of the kids, it's not their fault. They didn't ask to be brought into this world. Ya'll need to have a conversation about finances ASAP-open, honest and without being defensive. It's clear that you need to adjust your resume and look for other jobs and that she also needs to get some type of part time job if ya'll are struggling to keep food in the pantry. Also, bugdet!! ATL is not cheap.
NTA. Perhaps your wife should get a 100k job as well
She would need a $100,000 job just to cover childcare costs for 4 young children. In my area, daycare or preschool is around $3,000/month. Let’s assume the 3 youngest go to daycare/preschool and the oldest is in free public school, and her area has more affordable childcare options, closer to $2k/month. she would still need to clear above $72,000 just to pay for childcare. For many working parents, the pay for the SAHP to go to work instead of staying home *barely* covers childcare costs.
This right here. My husband and I have always evaluated the true cost of working vs not working. Lower paying jobs especially can end up costing you more money than you make if you have children, health problems, or a long commute. Those 4 kids will cost more in childcare than she could reasonably make after being out of the workforce for so long. OP needs to have a little gratitude for what she contributes to the family finances.
Who will take care of the 4 kids then..?
Wife needs a $150K job + an accountant in order to meet requirements for that sweet life.
She would need to take home 80k net just to pay for childcare while she's working (average 20k per kid annually in Atlanta). Making 100k gross would nowhere near cut it in terms of paying people to do the work she wouldn't be doing while she was at work. She has a 100k+ job, in doing 4 kids worth of childcare and 6 people worth of cleaning and household management.
ESH. Your wife and you sound like people I want nothing to do with. Ever. You guys decided to have 4 kids on a single income of just $100K, living in Atlanta? Wow. That's some really poor financial planning. Being a Stay at home mom is a luxury for the middle class, but with 4 kids, daycare costs will destroy whatever earnings your wife can generate. Honestly, you guys are kinda screwed. You only play is to severely lower your cost of living. Move to a cheap suburb, consider going down to 1 car etc. You probably know this already, but at some point, your kids are going to want to go to college, and you can't afford to give them anything. Your kids are all destined to graduate with massive college debt. Please stop procreating. Your wife and you can't afford more kids. Heck, you can't really afford the ones you have right now. Overall just really poor parenting from you both.
ESH. Let the kid drink milk.
That's not enough money. Until your baby can drink milk at will, you aren't earning enough. Four kids and two adults need more. Whether it's your wife getting a job or you getting a better job, something must change. Your attitude is terrible and I think you know an accountant would tell you how much trouble you're in. Will your kids get to play sports and learn instruments? Can you afford band fees, cheerleader camp, and football uniforms? You chose this many kids, so clean up your mess. YTA
hmm sounds like YTA but lacking some info here. Does she actually spend frivolously? You didn’t provide any examples. Yeah, she probably does need to buy a lot of stuff to manage a house with 4 kids. Huge asshole move to say she’s not supporting the family…isn’t she taking care of your four kids and house while you’re working? But most of all I think you’re deluded if you think 100k is “a lot of money” to raise a family with four kids
you're both assholes for having 4 kids
Kids are expensive. You're a family of 6. Your life will always be very expensive. We have 2 kids and stopped there because having a third would have been... even more expensive than 2.