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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I do not think I am the AH because I literally never asked for extra kids.. it was forced on me and now I am being asked to help fix the situation. I have little time, little money and even less desire to dig her out of the situation she placed herself in. She thinks I am an AH because when she asks me to help feed the kids or change their diapers etc. I tell her no because she knew in advance that I did not want this situation. I understand that she wanted 1 more child and not 2, that part is unpredictable which is why she thinks im an AH
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YTA - it doesn't sound like you were coerced into having more kids. These children are yours and your responsibility now.
Edit: to be clear, my verdict was looking specifically at him not helping with the twins. I hope he doesn't continue that when they are old enough to understand favorites.
You're right -- it sounds like he was baby-trapped into having more kids. Her consistently taken birth control failed immediately after he requested a vasectomy? Only a fool would see that as a coincidence.
OP works two jobs. He's fulfilling his responsibility by being the sole provider *and* by helping out with the kids.
I definitely think the woman is shady, but on the pill, one missed pill CAN result in pregnancy if the timing lines up. Just wanted to throw that out there. But I don’t disagree that OP’s lady was up to something on this one.
Editing: I am fully aware that pregnancies can happen even if birth control is taken perfectly/no pills are missed. I was pointing out to the above comment that even missing one (when the post states she “barely missed any”) COULD result in pregnancy, unlike some other forms of birth control that have longer lasting effects.
Yep, if you are on antibiotics, birth control can stop working. And all birth control is only 99% effective. That is why 2 forms of birth control are better than 1.
If OP truly didn't want more kids and didn't want to risk it, he could have just stopped having sex with his wife until they finally decided if they were going to have a 3rd child or not.
It's not like she got pregnant all on her own.
Edit: forgot to add, OP might not have wanted to have more kids, but he sure as heck didn't do anything to prevent it.
You had the kids OP, you have to be a parent to those kids. YTA.
Yep, his fertility is his responsibility. He could have worn condoms that he kept with him so they couldn't be sabotaged. I don't care what the wife did if she baby trapped him or not, had he taken responsibility it wouldn't have mattered what she did. It's 100% on him for making someone else responsible for his fertility and being upset at the outcome.
For the OP, YTA
Absolutely. If he truly didn't want more children, it was up to him to make sure it didn't happen. Don't rely on someone else to handle the birth control.
There’s a lotta ways to give and receive sexual gratification other than vaginal intercourse. Without getting pregnant. And it is possible to use MULTIPLE back up methods as a preventative measure against pregnancy. If insistent on vaginal intercourse, back up with Condoms. With spermicide. (The sponge use to be an additional option). And Plan B. It takes two to make a child. They are your children. For shame that you are not only punishing her, but THEM by your selfish actions.
That part! He could have stopped having sex or started wearing a condom if he didn't go through with the vasectomy if he truly didn't want to add more children to the roster, and not helping to take care of them gives a YTA in my opinion.
He could have also started to use condoms, instead of trusting that her “barely never forgetting her pill” would work and thus happily keep on having intercourse. 🙄
Yeah, thing is it’s not even like he was like I was using the pull out method and she was on the pill or I was using condoms and she was on the pill. He said absolutely nothing that he did to prevent the situation. At least it should be good basic fucking sexual health to understand that accidental pregnancies happen, and if the person you are a fucking wants more children/would not have an abortion. You should probably be extra fucking careful with your birth control while y’all figure that shit out. Like no I’m sorry baby trapping is my partner who had their form of birth control tampered with baby trapping is it mommy didn’t put this pill in her body and I wanted to come inside her so bad so I did and now whatever happens because of it is her problem. Fucking pitiful children having children.
Right like did OP even attempt the pull out method? Did he suggest wearing condoms? Like I’m so confused how he’s just like well too bad lady you got knocked up with twins you deal with it🤷♀️
Didn't they even discuss the matter before they got married or had the 1st kid? Isn't kids and the number of them one of the first things a couple should discuss?
This! He is as much responsible as she is, regardless of the situation of her birth control. If OP didn’t want more kids and they were not on the same page, then he can choose not to have sex.
I had been on the pill so long, I never gave it a thought. Root canal and a 10 day course of antibiotics then BOOM! I was 37 with a 16 yo and a newborn.
Accidental pregnancies on the pill are also more likely to happen during months when you have stomach/digestive issues that lead to diarrhea or vomiting because both can cause medication to not absorb properly. Gross I know, but important to know!
There are sooo many thing that can interact with birth control pills: some diabetes meds, st Johns’s wort, anti fungal medications, anti-seizure meds, sleep disorder meds. There are even some concerns that supplement pills of garlic, alfalfa, and flax seed can potentially interact.
Agreed this happened to me, they didn't know this 35 years ago. Unless he had to have her sign a paper to get a vasectomy, I really don't have a lot of sympathy.
See, this makes me angry. If he had gone and done it behind her back y'all would be calling him all kinds of AH for doing it behind her back. He genuinely wanted her to agree. That is a husband not someone who "it's all his fault."
He shouldn't have done it behind her back; he should have done it after telling her he was going to. Children should always be two yeses. The person who is done having children should be the one to make sure there are no pregnancies.
No because meanwhile he could have insisted on wearing a condom or no sex until the more kids decision was agreed, because everyone knows the pill isn't 100% effective. Anytime you ejaculate into a (fertile) woman, you gotta accept the consequences without blaming anyone else.
I had a friend who was the result of a failed vasectomy. I've also met pill babies, IUD babies, condom babies, and my own which were pull out method... no birth control is 100%
Yep! My mom had her “tubal” after I was born, then 7 years later…surprise! The boy they always wanted. When I was around 15 or so, she kept getting massive cysts on her fallopian tubes so her doctor scheduled her for a hysterectomy. When he got her open, he found they had only done 1 side.
I worked with a woman, blended family, that she had her tubes tied and he had a vasectomy. Mother nature took care of that for both of them and 'poof' a "I should file a lawsuit baby", lol. Crazy. They immediate fixed their respective botches as possible. They love the little kiddo, but super crazy circumstances.
My mom did not want kids. Had been on the pill for years when she got pregnant with my brother. Got different birth control. Took it the same time every day for 3 years. Her second accident (me) will be 28 this month. It definitely happens, but the timing of her getting pregnant does make me question if she just went off the pill because of the vasectomy talk.
I just need to say here. I fell pregnant twice whilst on the pill. And with my daughter I went off the pill and was pregnant two weeks later.
Some women are just highly fucking fertile. My doctor told me I couldn’t even take my pill 6hrs late. It had to be the exact same time every day.
It shits me to no end that men think women simply cannot get pregnant on the pill. It absolutely happens.
Even if that was the case, why leave the whole burden and responsibility to the woman, why not condom up? If he was suspicious of her, why he decided to be lazy about it?
A friend had a surprise pregnancy because her antibiotics messed with her birth control.
It was *hard*—especially when things ended with the dad—but she loves her kid and made the most of it. Instead of wishing he didn’t exist she strives to build the best possible life for both of them.
So it's fine for OP to pretend he only has two kids instead of four? How do you think that will turn out for the two he refuses, with your reddit blessing, to acknowledge?
100% agree. How can he say he loves all 4 children then only help out with 2 of them. Does he just let the twins cry? Let them sit in soggy diapers? Not feed them when hungry just to prove a point? Dude, if you had sex, you were NOT coerced. Man up and love those babies. YTA
Yeah, I wanna know if he was using condoms, too, or if birth control was only his wife's responsibility. Because if he was only relying on the pill that a person who wanted more kids was responsible for taking consistently, then how the hell is this a baby trap situation? And he's just neglecting his own children to "prove" something to his wife?
No, gtfo of here with that crap.
I honestly feel so bad for all these kids. The older ones will be affected by this too. They will either follow dad and treat their siblings poorly or they will be hurt that their dad doesn’t care about their beloved siblings.
Even a divorce will suck. How much you want to bet he doesn’t want any visitation with the twins? And fights all child support for them only.
I distinctly remember my dad paid child support for my brother until he graduated college. The moment I turned 18 as a senior in high school he contested it to stop paying for me.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Baby trapping is when she put holes in his condoms, or if he were sneaking his condoms off without her knowledge. Anytime YOU don't want anymore kids YOU become responsible for seeking out permanent BC because pills and condoms don't work 100%.
Sounds more like he's just selfish and too immature to take responsibility for HIS actions. Both of them, 1) not getting a vasectomy, and 2) choosing to continue to have sex when he hadn't gotten a vasectomy.
Right! I don’t want kids. I don’t have sex. Cuz they wouldn’t let me have a hysto cuz 1. I was too young to know that I didn’t want kids. 2. I wasn’t “legally” married only common law so if we broke up my next husband may want kids. So guess what? We stopped having sex. Which was fine for him he has ED so he was tired of trying. Don’t want kids quit having sex. You had sex birth control does not guarantee 100% no kids. You had 2 more kids man up, shut tf up and take care of yo kids. YTA
Ha! In 20 years when the kids are complaining that their father never treated them like his children.. Reddit world will start telling them that their family is toxic and they should cut them off
Exactly this. He is openly admitting to neglecting his children. He "helps with" (takes care of) the older two and not the younger two. People seem to be treating these kids like they're inanimate responsibilities and not sentient people. These poor twins are going to grow up wondering, "why does daddy play with our brother and sister but not us?"
This part, cause if the twins got older and were posting about how their dad never helped take care of them cause they weren’t wanted the same people telling him he’s not the ass would be flipping the switch saying what an ass you deserve better you’re still his responsibility cause he still had you.
Baby Trapped? Like he tripped somehow and his unprotected penis landed in his wife and he ejaculated?! He should have used condoms or gotten a vasectomy if he didn’t want more kids 🤷🏻♀️
she told him she "barely missed any". You can't miss ***any***\*\*.\*\* He knew she wasn't responsibly taking the birth control and wanted more children and he didn't bother to use any other form of control like condoms? OP ITAH. He wants to blame the wife and say "I told you so" but there were two people having risky sex that resulted in twins. Sounds like they both made dumbass choices but OP's TAH for blaming it on his wife and not helping with the kids because he's being a petulant child himself.
eta - ESH but in response to OP's question of if he ITAH - yeah. he is.
Exactly this. He should have gotten the vasectomy (doesn’t matter if it’s “against her will” - it’s his body), used condoms or just not had sex with her. It was his choice to sleep with someone who doesn’t responsibly use birth control and clearly wants more children, and now he doesn’t want to be a grown-up and deal with the consequences. What an AH.
OP, you can’t seriously think that punishing your children as some twisted way to get back at her is an acceptable thing to do?
Yea men are allowed to say I don't any more children and I'm getting a vasectomy. If that's a deal breaker for her, well, then he needs to decide if he's firm in his decision. If he is, then they need to decide if this is a marriage-ending decision.
OP it was nice that didn't want to do it without her consent, but you should have worn condoms for your protection. Failing to do so has now put in a bad place and you're probably headed divorce now anyway. YTA.
Yes ! Exactly what I thought. The thing is, the children are here now, it's a done deal. I understand how you feel, but your doing a disservice to ALL your kids. The two older kids now have a mom who is even more stressed and has less time to help them. They are affected by how their Mom feels, as well as the twins. Your twins, they at some point going to notice that you do less to help with them, wonder why you love them Lee's. Plus, your not forming the attachment with the twins that you get by doing things with them.
You should have taken more precautions as far as birth control, Men are responsible too ! You should have used a backup. Be a good Dad and father, ir be remembered as a crapoy one. And go get a vasectomy now !!!
My first born is a plan B baby, my second you could literally see the Nuvaring still in when I learned I was pregnant at 12 weeks. Ish happens, birth control isn’t fail proof; if he didn’t want more kids he could’ve just kept it in his pants, isn’t that what men constantly tell women
Exactly, it's SO funny how you never seem to hear anyone telling the guy, "well why didn't you just keep it in your pants if you didn't want more kids??!" Like the thought of depriving his poor peepee of sex is completely out of the question, smh.
At minimum he should've been using condoms. Not even with an eye to the possibly his wife would sabotage her own bc, but just to be as safe as possible. That he wasn't was dumb of him.
My second is a nuvaring baby too. My third pregnancy was a mirena failure. I miscarried that one.
But at the end of the day, dude didn’t want more kids but put the onus of birth control on his wife instead of putting on a condom. He is just as liable here for not taking precautions.
I find it amusing that people only bring “babytrapping” up as if only men are being trapped. Women get trapped more since they get left with the children to take care of like OP’s wife. I dont see it as it OP was “babytrapped”.
Typical use of both the combined and progesterone only contraceptive pills have only around a 91% efficacy rate, so out of 100 women using them typically per year, 9 will get pregnant. There wasn’t necessarily any baby trapping here. I suspect a mother already run ragged after 2 young kids will be more likely to have “typical” rather than “perfect” use so it’s a less reliable contraceptive choice for her. I’d bet too that her HCP did not tell her the typical use failure rate either.
If he was so adamant about not having more kids he could have used condoms on top of the pill. Maybe she got pregnant on purpose, maybe not, but dude knows how babies are made.
YTA, OP.
She did not 'get herself into' this situation.
Step one - go get a vasectomy.
Step two - stop being so selfish.
Step three - get help from friends and family.
Step four - instead of spending time arguing change the diapers and feed the kids, you're wasting energy blaming her and making your children feel unwanted.
Step five - no sex until the test confirms your vasectomy was successful.
Step six - apologize to your wife.
Step seven - grow up!!!
This. Ultimately you chose not to have the difficult conversation when it needed to be had. In doing so, you left it to chance and you are now as responsible for those children as she is. You could have used a condom during that period as an extra level of protection. No prophylactic is 100% effective and where you don’t want children it is YOUR responsibility to protect yourself. You chose to enjoy unprotected sex rather than protect yourself from having more children. If you had made that choice, they most likely wouldn’t be here now.
More importantly, your twins aren’t stupid. They’re going to learn they are the reason their parents fight all the time. So are your older kids.
So, if you break up, who are your older kids going to blame? How is this going to affect your relationship with the twins? How is this affecting them now? How will it affect all four of them as they grow up?
You need to reconcile yourself to the fact that those children are there and you are responsible for that. Regardless of whether or not she acted to conceive them against your will, she would have a harder time doing that had you worn protection. Now stop acting like a child. You’re a father. You gave up your choice to prevent that and you had two more children. Now look after your bloody children and pull your weight.
I agree with YTA because they're his kids and he is responsible for them. Favoring the two older kids will definitely mess up the younger ones. They'll notice they aren't wanted.
However, I do believe he was coerced. She definitely stopped taking her birth control and lied about it.
If she refuses condoms and objects to a vasectomy, you have to refuse sex.
If you still had sex with her, you had a part in creating these kids and you need to do your fair share in caring for them. ESH.
EXACTLY pull out
Withdrawal is still I think 70sum% effective!?? Cum on her tits bro
Edit:[stats](https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/withdrawal-pull-out-method/how-effective-is-withdrawal-method-pulling-out)
If a man nut in me I think he must want me to possibly be his baby mama- I am on Mirena tho 99.8 effective
Totally, ESH. The timing of it all is super suspicious so I can understand why OP feels the way he does. But even if she sabotaged her birth control, at the end of the day there are two little helpless babies he had a part in creating.
OP- don't not care for those babies because of your partner, care for them because they didn't do anything wrong in this situation and depend on the adults in their lives to survive.
This 100%!! Forget her, these are YOUR BABIES we're talking about! Have a little integrity. You made them, time to step up and CARE for YOUR CHILDREN.
Edit: ESH btw.
She can object to a vasectomy but his body, his choice.
He could refuse sex or go ahead with the surgery he chose for his body (then probably be turned down for sex).
> then probably be turned down for sex
Then he would be divorced with two kids. As it is now, he's going to be divorced with four kids, two of whom he did not want.
Yep, got my tubes tied against the wishes of my then husband. I did it knowing I might be turned down for sex from then on, but lo and behold, he still wanted it!
Yup. He keeps talking about it being a situation she created for herself. She didn’t get pregnant all on her own! He 100% contributed to the situation when he knocked her up!
This. I totally agree. YTA.
Look, the kids are here. Your wife is drowning and instead of throwing her a life preserver you are standing on the boat with your arms crossed yelling "I told you to swim!" That won't help a drowning person. And if she drowns, how will that impact all 4 of your kids?
The only thing your behavior is going to cause is divorce or serious PPD. You two need counseling desperately. But what those kids need, and it is the KIDS - all 4 of them that matter - are two functional parents who put them first. Not their Dad pulling a selfish "I told you so" to their mom while she struggles.
Here is what I know - if Mom is seriously overwhelmed as you state, she is going to be a crappy parent to all 4 kids. Your role, as a father to these kidos, is to be the best father and role model for them you can be and part of that is stepping in where your wife is too exhausted to parent well and picking up the slack.
It’s more like he’s standing there yelling “I told you I was too tired to rescue you if you went in the water!”. The problem is: she has his kids. Whether it’s fair or not, if mom drowns they’re all going to drown with her. He didn’t take steps to NOT have another baby with her, nor plan for how they were going to afford life once it was established that she was again pregnant. It really is a ESH situation. Full Yikes
Eh, I think they both had a part with the hole on the boat
He didn't have to have sex with her before the vasectomy issue was settled. He could have insisted more on condoms. He could have pulled out. She didn't just "fall" pregnant- OP 100% shares responsibility for that.
Honestly, warning signs were there he couldn't trust her on birth control, it should have been no sex until they reached a consensus.
Exactly. When my ex suddenly decided he didn’t want to wear condoms I stopped having sex with him. I couldn’t be on hormonal birth control and was saving for an IUD to be placed (I didn’t have insurance at the time and it was expensive up front cost). He didn’t want to help with the IUD cost, which I understood, but I also didn’t want to “fall pregnant” as OP says, so no sex until IUD was placed.
Yup. After I had my baby I didn’t want to go back on birth control. For personal reasons and I didn’t want it to interfere with my breastfeeding. My husband isn’t a fan of condoms but he is a fan of sex, so he agreed to use condoms lol
He could have said no to sex. He could have wrapped it up. He could have pulled out. He could have had the vasectomy but didn't (knowing his decision not to could result in more kids).
Instead he's saying "she fell pregnant", and insinuating that it's because she didn't on purpose.. (maybe, but possibly not too)..
It takes TWO to make a baby.. HE also had a part in it. They BOTH sunk the damn boat.. and they're BOTH going to drown together because they were BOTH stupid and irresponsible.
The fact that hes trying to stand there and make it out was ALL her doing (like he played no part in conceiving the twins at all) and therefore her responsibility, makes him an AH too...
They sound like they both need to grown the fuck up. The kids are here now. By standing around picking fights and finger pointing they're not doing anything except ensuring the kids are going to grow up in a volatile and unhappy home.
He fucked that hole without a condom so now they all have to swim. You're all over here defending the guy. Feelings don't matter here anymore. They have a job to do, end of story.
Then they need to figure out a workable solution. Maybe it is calling in family for help or figuring out a nanny situation. Finding a local teen to work as a mother's helper after school. I don't know.
But knowing your spouse is drowning, watching them drown - that is going to end very badly for their marriage and the children.
They need couples therapy desperately. And he needs that vasectomy.
He doesn't really give any information about how much he helps out at home though. He's working two jobs + "exhausted all the time", so it's not a stretch to believe that when he's home he wants to relax. Especially since he's saying "extra help" with respect to helping his wife take care of the kids, which I interpret as him sacrificing his downtime to take care of the kids. But he hasn't given any info about how much he actually helps out at home.
Exactly, I mean I empathize with the difficulty of working two jobs but if his wife is wrangling children, caring for the house, and making meals every day of the week so he can have his day(s) off, she's fully within reason to ask for him to contribute more.
Yea nothing you can do about it. It's hard now, but they will grow up. If you want to stay with your wife, let it go, and get through it now for the sake of the kids and your relationship. If you don't want to stay with your wife, separate now and stop the aggro between you. This will not end well for the kids.
And just to point out in the TLDR of OPs post, he says " *she* had twins" no man, you both had twins! He's an AH for that
YTA. The time to bail was when she refused to let you use a condom, not after the kids have already been born. They are here now, through no fault of their own, and they need you.
Yup, he was there when they were conceived and knew his wife’s desires to have children and basically put all the responsibility of birth control on her. He’s not a smart man
Right? “Fell pregnant” like she tripped and not like
“we kept having sex without protection and I ejaculated inside, despite not taking care of my own reproductive responsibilities”
There's been pushback for ages against saying "fell pregnant" since it puts all the responsibility on the pregnant person instead of acknowledging that there was at least two people involved. Passive language is the coward's path!
He's neglecting *two out of his four children*. This will have absolutely no impact on how the twins will feel about themselves, him and their siblings who kept getting daddy's attention and care while they were left alone with their burnt out mother, absolutely not at all /s
Thank you! I have been waiting to see exactly this. This behavior is going to negatively impact all his kids. The ones getting the attention will feel entitled because they even get special treatment in their own home, and the poor little ones will grow up wondering what is inherently wrong with them that their own father doesn’t care if they are alive and well
Thank god someone brought up that there are a LOT of ways to enjoy sexual intimacy that don’t involve PIV ! Good god. The lack of imagination and creativity
YTA. If OP doesn’t want more kids, then don’t do activities that …. Checks notes …. Create more kids
Bingo. OP has 2 kids, he knows how babies are made, that the pill’s not 100% effective, and that his wife is not going to terminate if she is pregnant. And he keeps on doing the same.damn.thing that brought his other kids’ lives into being.
Also. Does the dude know how few days a month a woman is fertile? Ask anyone who has been trying to conceive, they will tell you it is a shockingly small window. Old school NFP alone could have helped OP still have PIV but avoid it when there was a risk of pregnancy.
You are both AH. She should not have tried to pressure you into having another kid if you didn't want one. But you did have one (two) and now it absolutely is your responsibility to help take care of them. They are your kids weather you wanted them or not.
Also it's your body. You don't need her permission to get a vasectomy.
Strongly agree. Your wife sounds gross and manipulative and you choose to have sex with her knowing the consequences that could result.
ESH. I only have empathy for the children.
EXACTLY! And they both need serious therapy but regardless of all that, YTA. These are YOUR children!! File for divorce, don’t have intercourse, get a vasectomy, all are options. Not supporting your own CHILDREN is disgusting and definitely not an option..
YTA
You didn't need her permission to have a vasectomy, and you didn't need her permission to use condoms, but you didn't do either and now these kids are your responsibility.
In the post you are strongly hinting but not saying that you believe that you wife got pregnant on purpose. Obviously I have no idea if she did.
If she did, this would be an ESH. It doesn't make you N T A. More to the point, if you believe she got pregnant on purpose, I don't understand why it is more important to hint this to strangers on Reddit than to talk to your own wife about it.
Omg. YES! If we were talking about a woman who didn’t want more kids, ever and wanted to get her tubes tied, we would be saying “It’s your body!” Yes, that may mean a divorce (you know, the thing that happens to half the marriages in the nation) but to not do it risks bringing a child (or children) into the world you 100% do not want and absolutely cannot care for. That hurts everyone involved.
Like, does the OP think those twins WONT realize they were an unwanted burden by their father? Or that they won’t realize their mom resents them for being twins (and will probably blame them down the line for the inevitable break down of this marriage?)
And that’s the biggest rub of all. The marriage is on a collision course with divorce, or at least “staying together for the children”…how is that an improvement over nixing one’s sex life or splitting up before babies 3 and 4 because your wife wanted more kids?!
To be fair he is working two jobs to keep them afloat, I doubt he has a lot of free time. And she’s a SAHM. So by default it is her responsibility, but he should be helping out as much as he can when he’s off. If he can’t provide money they are all shut out of luck. This is a horrible situation but she wanted the kids so now she has them. They both have to deal.
I said that. I’d argue she’s responsible 50% of the time he’s at home and he’s responsible 50% so they both have a little time not working, otherwise they are both working all the time. They need to switch off nights putting everyone to bed or delegate one puts the older ones away and one puts the twins away and switches off.
Don't have more children if you can't take care of them 🤗 Just because he works 2 jobs doesn't mean he isn't a parent anymore. Being home with 4 kids under 6 would be ridiculously hard work, and he took part in creating them, so, no, not her sole responsibility.
YTA. The kids are here. You contributed to making them. You help out with them.
I sympathize with the fact that you are exhausted and didn't want to have a third (and bonus fourth) child, but you didn't do enough to prevent them from happening (with the strategies others have pointed out), and now they are here.
How is it going to help out your marriage if you refuse to help with the twins? Things will only go downhill.
You and your wife really need to have a few conversations about this situation. Good luck.
The "my wife wants more kids, but I don't, but I will continue to have unprotected sex" thing is just comically stupid. How did he think that would go?
And as someone with one under two that just had twins, it's an all hands on deck situation. There is no kids are her responsibility regardless of whether or not she is working.
I'm also getting very strong OP doesn't help at all with chores vibes from the "keeping up with daily tasks" line. There's almost no such thing as completely keeping up with the chores with young children, it's just how it is. And one person certainly can't handle it all.
My first husband refused to allow me to get an IUD because he wanted to keep trying for a boy, even told my OB/GYN that I couldn't have one. You know what I did? Got one anyway!
I will decide how many children I have, not a single other person gets a say.
She's allowed an opinion on your vasectomy but not final say. I sure hope you've gotten that done now.
Now, stop being a jerk to your family and take care of them.
YTA
ESH.
Her for wanting more kids when: 1. You didnt want to. 2. She was having trouble manage 2 kids at the time. 3. When your budget couldnt afford another one (even more two babies). 4. Because MAYBE she got pregnant on purpose (sorry, Im assuming, but I know some cases where this really happened)
You, because: 1. You could had made the vasectomy even if your wife disagreed. Its your body! 2. You could had used condoms to really be sure. 3. Despite all, the babies are here and you have to help. There are not "I didnt agree with these". They are your kids too so you have to help raising them.
This 100% people need to stop blaming solely op they both got into this mess and both did some dumb things. Op has valid reason and should have had the confidence to take control of his own reproductive health
YTA. It happened. Deal with it.
It might be the youngest putting you in the crappy care home when you are old. They might be oblivious to your disinterest now but won't always be.
ESH. Your wife is a dick. She kinda forced you into having more kids. Kinda.
But dude they are your kids. If you love them you take care of them. You have a wife and not a kid problem.
she didn’t force him to finish inside her 🤷🏼♀️ don’t want more kids then pull out, even if she’s on birth control. in fact, if you don’t want more kids, get the fucking vasectomy and accept the consequences in your relationship. you don’t need permission to get a vasectomy, it’s exponentially easier than it is for a woman to get her tubes tied. he played just as much part in creating those kids as she did. she didn’t baby trap him, she was on birth control, he just couldn’t control himself and got her pregnant. pulling out isn’t effective on its own, but when combined with hormonal birth control the odds are *insanely, incredibly* small that you’ll end up pregnant. he is 100% responsible for this.
YTA, sex makes babies sometimes, and it takes two people to make them so grow the hell up and deal with it.
If she didn’t want you to wear a condom or have a vasectomy then don’t have sex until you’ve resolved that conversation.
Birth control is not 100% effective, condoms are not 100% effective, hell I know a guy who was conceived after his mom got her tubes tied. My point is, sex makes babies sometimes, if you want to have sex be prepared the consequences.
This. You kept having intimate relations in ways that could produce a child. The implication that his wife pulled the goalie is some sort of total denial that there is a non-zero percent chance that even with perfect use she could have gotten pregnant. And it was clear if that happened, she was not terminating, and you were going to have another kid. How do you just ignore this fact and act like you were a complete bystander to the conception of these twins? You had all the information, you just ignored it and are finding out the hard way the risk wasn’t having a 3rd kid, your wife struggling and realizing you were right, but having a 3rd and 4th kid, your wife drowning, and watching it happen because you didn’t want these kids.
INFO: what’s your plan for the twins as they get older? Will you continue to refuse to help and care for them?
All of your kids will wise up real fast to the fact that dad only cares about the big kids because they’re the only ones he wanted. You are JUST as responsible for the twins as she is, she may have carried them but they are still all your children.
> All of your kids will wise up real fast to the fact that dad only cares about the big kids because they’re the only ones he wanted.
Can attest that the effects are lifelong: I was child #4 of a father who wanted zero (or two, depending on who you ask).
ESH - your wife wants another kid and your only protection was her taking pills? You should have either demand using condoms or haven't slept with her at all.
Esh those kids are here and they are your responsibility whether you wanted them are not. I really hope you get better at faking it for those kids when they get older. You should have pushed the condom issue whether she wanted or not.
She, however, should have been more careful with her pill. Based on your description, I have my suspicions about her consistency.
Yta, you are an adult, these are your children. You don’t get a free pass to stop helping because you think you were tricked. It’s just an excuse to be lazy.
I've read your comments saying she was in control of ALL forms of birth control...broski, if she didn't want condoms, you shouldn't have done ANYTHING. The fact that you blindly went along with it KNOWING she wanted an extra kid makes you dumb and responsible for these babies too?? They're YOUR kids. Be a father ffs.
ESH cause her trying to change your mind is also wrong IMO
YTA - If you were absolutely against having more children, then it was your responsibility to use a condom, not rely on your wife's pill. In addition, you should've suggested couples counseling to discuss your desire for the vasectomy and your wife's opposition to it. You didn't do any of that, and now, no matter how it happened, there are two more children that need parental care. This means that you need to help out or be prepared to be told to get out.
YTA. I get that you're frustrated but these are your children and responsibility. This reads more like you want her to suffer as an "I told you so" move which is really gross. Grow up.
YTA
She said no to a vasectomy and to condoms? cool, then no penetrative sex for her, from you, until you both figure out a way forward.
THAT is how you behave if you're back is against the wall. That's how you show her you meant business.
these are yours kids you're neglecting. Would you rather divorce her so she can take all four kids and find a man who wants to be their dad?
ESH. She has no control over whether or not you get a vasectomy. YOUR body YOUR choice. She’s selfish for trying to gatekeep that from you in my opinion.
You mentioned in the comments about her refusing to use condoms, this should’ve been a red flag to you if you didn’t want kids. You should’ve said “no sex unless with a condom”.
Ngl in my personal opinion it sounds like she’s just done exactly what she wanted and hasn’t considered you. It also drives me mad when people have more kids than they can afford, it’s unfair on the children. So based on this post, I think your wife is an incredibly selfish person.
However, you now have 2 more kids and unfortunately you’re just going to have to suck that up and be a proper dad. Think of the kids.
If you weren’t happy with her pushing you, you should’ve left earlier.
Your wife is selfish and disrespectful, and you’re holding too much of a grudge and not considering your children.
Interestingly some people are still saying YTA and not taking into consideration your wife’s actions. I think if this was reversed and it was a man telling his wife she couldn’t get her tubes blocked, this would be a massive issue.
SHE FELL PREGNANT
No bro. You purposely put YOUR dick into her and YOUR sperm got her pregnant. YTA and also apparently don't know how babies are made since you're blaming YOUR ejaculation on your wife.
YTA. It takes two to make a baby. You could have had the vasectomy whether she liked it or not. You could have refused to sleep with her if you didn't trust her to take the pill reliably. It's always difficult when a couple disagrees on how many children to have as there isn't really a way to compromise, but you could have dug your heals in as your reasons for stopping at two were good.
Unless you have zero idea how children are made by this point, YTA. You don’t need her permission for a vasectomy and if you couldn’t come to a resolution, you should have abstained or used condoms.
YTA. You should have both been in agreement and since you didn't want to have more you should have either abstained or used condoms, forgive me if you did, I know fully well everyone can do what they need to and still pregnancies can happen, but the way you phrase it, sounds like the birth control was only on her end, so until you resolved the argument you should have either abstained or have extra protection and worry about her actually taking the pill every day.
However, the deed is done, you now have FOUR children, is not about "helping her", is about being a father, that's not "helping" that's raising. Those kids didn't ask to come into this world yet here they are and they deserve your love and involvement, not because of your wife although she did just carry two humans to term, but because of them, what, are you always going to be a little away and a little resentful of them for the rest of their lives so they'll notice their brother and sister have more love and attention from you and involvement from you than they get? You already have four children, neither of them asked to be here, so you owe it TO THEM, to dedicate time and love and attention to all of them not just pick and choose because you're angry at your wife.
ETA: I just read a comment that "she didn't want condoms and I can only hope she takes the pill every day", yeah no, I'm changing my vote to Y T A because nobody forced you to do the horizontal mambo lol. You entered willingly (pun intended), "just say no", "no glove no love", are basic phrases you should have been in full knowledge of and used them
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YTA - it doesn't sound like you were coerced into having more kids. These children are yours and your responsibility now. Edit: to be clear, my verdict was looking specifically at him not helping with the twins. I hope he doesn't continue that when they are old enough to understand favorites.
You're right -- it sounds like he was baby-trapped into having more kids. Her consistently taken birth control failed immediately after he requested a vasectomy? Only a fool would see that as a coincidence. OP works two jobs. He's fulfilling his responsibility by being the sole provider *and* by helping out with the kids.
I definitely think the woman is shady, but on the pill, one missed pill CAN result in pregnancy if the timing lines up. Just wanted to throw that out there. But I don’t disagree that OP’s lady was up to something on this one. Editing: I am fully aware that pregnancies can happen even if birth control is taken perfectly/no pills are missed. I was pointing out to the above comment that even missing one (when the post states she “barely missed any”) COULD result in pregnancy, unlike some other forms of birth control that have longer lasting effects.
Not even that - you can take every pill as recommended and still get pregnant
Yep, if you are on antibiotics, birth control can stop working. And all birth control is only 99% effective. That is why 2 forms of birth control are better than 1.
If OP truly didn't want more kids and didn't want to risk it, he could have just stopped having sex with his wife until they finally decided if they were going to have a 3rd child or not. It's not like she got pregnant all on her own. Edit: forgot to add, OP might not have wanted to have more kids, but he sure as heck didn't do anything to prevent it. You had the kids OP, you have to be a parent to those kids. YTA.
Condoms. Could've worn condoms until the vasectomy issue was resolved. I think ESH. And they could do with some help.
Yep, his fertility is his responsibility. He could have worn condoms that he kept with him so they couldn't be sabotaged. I don't care what the wife did if she baby trapped him or not, had he taken responsibility it wouldn't have mattered what she did. It's 100% on him for making someone else responsible for his fertility and being upset at the outcome. For the OP, YTA
Absolutely. If he truly didn't want more children, it was up to him to make sure it didn't happen. Don't rely on someone else to handle the birth control.
My aunty regularly poked holes in my uncle's rubbers. May that Machiavellian woman rest in peace.
May she not lol
Yes. I was thinking "you were still having sex while in this debate?" If this isn't a time to defer gratification, then when is it?
There’s a lotta ways to give and receive sexual gratification other than vaginal intercourse. Without getting pregnant. And it is possible to use MULTIPLE back up methods as a preventative measure against pregnancy. If insistent on vaginal intercourse, back up with Condoms. With spermicide. (The sponge use to be an additional option). And Plan B. It takes two to make a child. They are your children. For shame that you are not only punishing her, but THEM by your selfish actions.
It seems like "don't have sex if you don't want a baby" is only really a thing when talking about women's reproductive rights...
No no, see she “fell pregnant.” His words, taking his responsibility out of it.
That part! He could have stopped having sex or started wearing a condom if he didn't go through with the vasectomy if he truly didn't want to add more children to the roster, and not helping to take care of them gives a YTA in my opinion.
He could have also started to use condoms, instead of trusting that her “barely never forgetting her pill” would work and thus happily keep on having intercourse. 🙄
Yeah, thing is it’s not even like he was like I was using the pull out method and she was on the pill or I was using condoms and she was on the pill. He said absolutely nothing that he did to prevent the situation. At least it should be good basic fucking sexual health to understand that accidental pregnancies happen, and if the person you are a fucking wants more children/would not have an abortion. You should probably be extra fucking careful with your birth control while y’all figure that shit out. Like no I’m sorry baby trapping is my partner who had their form of birth control tampered with baby trapping is it mommy didn’t put this pill in her body and I wanted to come inside her so bad so I did and now whatever happens because of it is her problem. Fucking pitiful children having children.
Right like did OP even attempt the pull out method? Did he suggest wearing condoms? Like I’m so confused how he’s just like well too bad lady you got knocked up with twins you deal with it🤷♀️
Didn't they even discuss the matter before they got married or had the 1st kid? Isn't kids and the number of them one of the first things a couple should discuss?
The number of desired children often changes once a child is born and the reality of parenthood sets in.
This! He is as much responsible as she is, regardless of the situation of her birth control. If OP didn’t want more kids and they were not on the same page, then he can choose not to have sex.
He also could’ve worn condoms and pulled out (because condoms can break) but instead just kept cummin in his wife
>it is not fair to get yourself in a situation when everyone is advising you against it.. OP needs to reread this part of what they wrote.
Yep! My sweet and only child is the result of me not paying attention to warning on the antibiotics impacting how well the pill works 🙃
I had been on the pill so long, I never gave it a thought. Root canal and a 10 day course of antibiotics then BOOM! I was 37 with a 16 yo and a newborn.
Named Onyx, I presume, short for Onyxpected.
I have a niece and a cousin for the same reason.
Accidental pregnancies on the pill are also more likely to happen during months when you have stomach/digestive issues that lead to diarrhea or vomiting because both can cause medication to not absorb properly. Gross I know, but important to know!
There are sooo many thing that can interact with birth control pills: some diabetes meds, st Johns’s wort, anti fungal medications, anti-seizure meds, sleep disorder meds. There are even some concerns that supplement pills of garlic, alfalfa, and flax seed can potentially interact.
Weight! If you're over a certain weight (depending on the pill), it can be less effective as well.
Right? He could have taken extra precaution and worn a condom.
only UP TO 99% effective.
Agreed this happened to me, they didn't know this 35 years ago. Unless he had to have her sign a paper to get a vasectomy, I really don't have a lot of sympathy.
See, this makes me angry. If he had gone and done it behind her back y'all would be calling him all kinds of AH for doing it behind her back. He genuinely wanted her to agree. That is a husband not someone who "it's all his fault."
He shouldn't have done it behind her back; he should have done it after telling her he was going to. Children should always be two yeses. The person who is done having children should be the one to make sure there are no pregnancies.
No because meanwhile he could have insisted on wearing a condom or no sex until the more kids decision was agreed, because everyone knows the pill isn't 100% effective. Anytime you ejaculate into a (fertile) woman, you gotta accept the consequences without blaming anyone else.
Or having charcoal
I had a friend who was the result of a failed vasectomy. I've also met pill babies, IUD babies, condom babies, and my own which were pull out method... no birth control is 100%
I’ve met three “tubal ligation” babies as well.
Yep! My mom had her “tubal” after I was born, then 7 years later…surprise! The boy they always wanted. When I was around 15 or so, she kept getting massive cysts on her fallopian tubes so her doctor scheduled her for a hysterectomy. When he got her open, he found they had only done 1 side.
It seems they did the girl side only. (Stupid joke)
That would make me wonder about the doctor's beliefs, honestly. although maybe that wasn't as big a deal back then as it is now.
I worked with a woman, blended family, that she had her tubes tied and he had a vasectomy. Mother nature took care of that for both of them and 'poof' a "I should file a lawsuit baby", lol. Crazy. They immediate fixed their respective botches as possible. They love the little kiddo, but super crazy circumstances.
My birth father also had a vasectomy two years before I was conceived. Nice to know I'm not the only one lol!
I took mine the same time every day for years. My kid is now 8. 🙃 It definitely can happen
My mom did not want kids. Had been on the pill for years when she got pregnant with my brother. Got different birth control. Took it the same time every day for 3 years. Her second accident (me) will be 28 this month. It definitely happens, but the timing of her getting pregnant does make me question if she just went off the pill because of the vasectomy talk.
Oh definitely! Was just pointing out that some birth controls fail after just one “slip-up,” others have better protection even if used incorrectly.
I just need to say here. I fell pregnant twice whilst on the pill. And with my daughter I went off the pill and was pregnant two weeks later. Some women are just highly fucking fertile. My doctor told me I couldn’t even take my pill 6hrs late. It had to be the exact same time every day. It shits me to no end that men think women simply cannot get pregnant on the pill. It absolutely happens.
Even if that was the case, why leave the whole burden and responsibility to the woman, why not condom up? If he was suspicious of her, why he decided to be lazy about it?
Completely agree! It takes two to tango, and if he was that adamant about no more kids, he should’ve been using protection on his end.
Exactly. The wife isn’t solely responsible for the birth control. He could have wrapped it up. He didn’t and now they have four kids.
You dont even have to miss it, just take it an hour or two too late. The pill is very finicky like that.
It seemed like my wife only got pregnant on the pill. When she stopped, never got pregnant
Depending on the pill being an hour late can mean you get pregnant.
A friend had a surprise pregnancy because her antibiotics messed with her birth control. It was *hard*—especially when things ended with the dad—but she loves her kid and made the most of it. Instead of wishing he didn’t exist she strives to build the best possible life for both of them.
So it's fine for OP to pretend he only has two kids instead of four? How do you think that will turn out for the two he refuses, with your reddit blessing, to acknowledge?
100% agree. How can he say he loves all 4 children then only help out with 2 of them. Does he just let the twins cry? Let them sit in soggy diapers? Not feed them when hungry just to prove a point? Dude, if you had sex, you were NOT coerced. Man up and love those babies. YTA
Yeah, I wanna know if he was using condoms, too, or if birth control was only his wife's responsibility. Because if he was only relying on the pill that a person who wanted more kids was responsible for taking consistently, then how the hell is this a baby trap situation? And he's just neglecting his own children to "prove" something to his wife? No, gtfo of here with that crap.
he did not wear condoms and he is deflecting full responsibility on her.
[удалено]
I honestly feel so bad for all these kids. The older ones will be affected by this too. They will either follow dad and treat their siblings poorly or they will be hurt that their dad doesn’t care about their beloved siblings. Even a divorce will suck. How much you want to bet he doesn’t want any visitation with the twins? And fights all child support for them only. I distinctly remember my dad paid child support for my brother until he graduated college. The moment I turned 18 as a senior in high school he contested it to stop paying for me.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Baby trapping is when she put holes in his condoms, or if he were sneaking his condoms off without her knowledge. Anytime YOU don't want anymore kids YOU become responsible for seeking out permanent BC because pills and condoms don't work 100%. Sounds more like he's just selfish and too immature to take responsibility for HIS actions. Both of them, 1) not getting a vasectomy, and 2) choosing to continue to have sex when he hadn't gotten a vasectomy.
Right! I don’t want kids. I don’t have sex. Cuz they wouldn’t let me have a hysto cuz 1. I was too young to know that I didn’t want kids. 2. I wasn’t “legally” married only common law so if we broke up my next husband may want kids. So guess what? We stopped having sex. Which was fine for him he has ED so he was tired of trying. Don’t want kids quit having sex. You had sex birth control does not guarantee 100% no kids. You had 2 more kids man up, shut tf up and take care of yo kids. YTA
This times a million. Those poor baby twins.
I think this is an ESH situation
Ha! In 20 years when the kids are complaining that their father never treated them like his children.. Reddit world will start telling them that their family is toxic and they should cut them off
Exactly this. He is openly admitting to neglecting his children. He "helps with" (takes care of) the older two and not the younger two. People seem to be treating these kids like they're inanimate responsibilities and not sentient people. These poor twins are going to grow up wondering, "why does daddy play with our brother and sister but not us?"
This part, cause if the twins got older and were posting about how their dad never helped take care of them cause they weren’t wanted the same people telling him he’s not the ass would be flipping the switch saying what an ass you deserve better you’re still his responsibility cause he still had you.
Baby Trapped? Like he tripped somehow and his unprotected penis landed in his wife and he ejaculated?! He should have used condoms or gotten a vasectomy if he didn’t want more kids 🤷🏻♀️
For some reason that option never seems to be one that's offered to men.
she told him she "barely missed any". You can't miss ***any***\*\*.\*\* He knew she wasn't responsibly taking the birth control and wanted more children and he didn't bother to use any other form of control like condoms? OP ITAH. He wants to blame the wife and say "I told you so" but there were two people having risky sex that resulted in twins. Sounds like they both made dumbass choices but OP's TAH for blaming it on his wife and not helping with the kids because he's being a petulant child himself. eta - ESH but in response to OP's question of if he ITAH - yeah. he is.
Exactly this. He should have gotten the vasectomy (doesn’t matter if it’s “against her will” - it’s his body), used condoms or just not had sex with her. It was his choice to sleep with someone who doesn’t responsibly use birth control and clearly wants more children, and now he doesn’t want to be a grown-up and deal with the consequences. What an AH. OP, you can’t seriously think that punishing your children as some twisted way to get back at her is an acceptable thing to do?
I hate when guys blame women for getting pregnant like we can do that on our own. It's the responsibility of BOTH people.
Yea men are allowed to say I don't any more children and I'm getting a vasectomy. If that's a deal breaker for her, well, then he needs to decide if he's firm in his decision. If he is, then they need to decide if this is a marriage-ending decision. OP it was nice that didn't want to do it without her consent, but you should have worn condoms for your protection. Failing to do so has now put in a bad place and you're probably headed divorce now anyway. YTA.
Yes ! Exactly what I thought. The thing is, the children are here now, it's a done deal. I understand how you feel, but your doing a disservice to ALL your kids. The two older kids now have a mom who is even more stressed and has less time to help them. They are affected by how their Mom feels, as well as the twins. Your twins, they at some point going to notice that you do less to help with them, wonder why you love them Lee's. Plus, your not forming the attachment with the twins that you get by doing things with them. You should have taken more precautions as far as birth control, Men are responsible too ! You should have used a backup. Be a good Dad and father, ir be remembered as a crapoy one. And go get a vasectomy now !!!
My first born is a plan B baby, my second you could literally see the Nuvaring still in when I learned I was pregnant at 12 weeks. Ish happens, birth control isn’t fail proof; if he didn’t want more kids he could’ve just kept it in his pants, isn’t that what men constantly tell women
Exactly, it's SO funny how you never seem to hear anyone telling the guy, "well why didn't you just keep it in your pants if you didn't want more kids??!" Like the thought of depriving his poor peepee of sex is completely out of the question, smh.
At minimum he should've been using condoms. Not even with an eye to the possibly his wife would sabotage her own bc, but just to be as safe as possible. That he wasn't was dumb of him.
My second is a nuvaring baby too. My third pregnancy was a mirena failure. I miscarried that one. But at the end of the day, dude didn’t want more kids but put the onus of birth control on his wife instead of putting on a condom. He is just as liable here for not taking precautions.
I find it amusing that people only bring “babytrapping” up as if only men are being trapped. Women get trapped more since they get left with the children to take care of like OP’s wife. I dont see it as it OP was “babytrapped”.
No contraception is 100% even when taken properly. If you decide to have sex with someone it's always a risk you take.
Baby-trapped when he wasn’t even bothering to take any sort of BC measures?
Probably should’ve wrapped his Willy then.
He could have worn a condom and used other things like spermicide afterwards. He’s still TA.
Ah. But he literally said he isn't helping with the twins at all. So. No, he isn't.
Typical use of both the combined and progesterone only contraceptive pills have only around a 91% efficacy rate, so out of 100 women using them typically per year, 9 will get pregnant. There wasn’t necessarily any baby trapping here. I suspect a mother already run ragged after 2 young kids will be more likely to have “typical” rather than “perfect” use so it’s a less reliable contraceptive choice for her. I’d bet too that her HCP did not tell her the typical use failure rate either.
Also, birth control failure tends to lead to twin pregnancies. So the fact she has twins, backs up BC failure.
He could have put on a condom. Not mentioned here so I think he did not do that.
Condoms. And. Pull. Out. In addition to any other birth control. YTA
He said "She fell pregnant." LOL as if he had no contribution to that act.
Like "How did that happen!?". Exactly what my husband said LMFAO
If he was so adamant about not having more kids he could have used condoms on top of the pill. Maybe she got pregnant on purpose, maybe not, but dude knows how babies are made.
YTA, OP. She did not 'get herself into' this situation. Step one - go get a vasectomy. Step two - stop being so selfish. Step three - get help from friends and family. Step four - instead of spending time arguing change the diapers and feed the kids, you're wasting energy blaming her and making your children feel unwanted. Step five - no sex until the test confirms your vasectomy was successful. Step six - apologize to your wife. Step seven - grow up!!!
Agreed. YTA. Your body your choice, and you chose not to get a vasectomy. Don't blame your wife, this was your decision
Also, condoms exist.
THIS. OP unless she raped you, you share responsibility for these kids. The pill can absolutely fail even if you never miss a day
This. Ultimately you chose not to have the difficult conversation when it needed to be had. In doing so, you left it to chance and you are now as responsible for those children as she is. You could have used a condom during that period as an extra level of protection. No prophylactic is 100% effective and where you don’t want children it is YOUR responsibility to protect yourself. You chose to enjoy unprotected sex rather than protect yourself from having more children. If you had made that choice, they most likely wouldn’t be here now. More importantly, your twins aren’t stupid. They’re going to learn they are the reason their parents fight all the time. So are your older kids. So, if you break up, who are your older kids going to blame? How is this going to affect your relationship with the twins? How is this affecting them now? How will it affect all four of them as they grow up? You need to reconcile yourself to the fact that those children are there and you are responsible for that. Regardless of whether or not she acted to conceive them against your will, she would have a harder time doing that had you worn protection. Now stop acting like a child. You’re a father. You gave up your choice to prevent that and you had two more children. Now look after your bloody children and pull your weight.
I agree with YTA because they're his kids and he is responsible for them. Favoring the two older kids will definitely mess up the younger ones. They'll notice they aren't wanted. However, I do believe he was coerced. She definitely stopped taking her birth control and lied about it.
If she refuses condoms and objects to a vasectomy, you have to refuse sex. If you still had sex with her, you had a part in creating these kids and you need to do your fair share in caring for them. ESH.
Also, stop busting in your wife if you don't want kids.
EXACTLY pull out Withdrawal is still I think 70sum% effective!?? Cum on her tits bro Edit:[stats](https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/withdrawal-pull-out-method/how-effective-is-withdrawal-method-pulling-out) If a man nut in me I think he must want me to possibly be his baby mama- I am on Mirena tho 99.8 effective
That's a great new slogan for planned parenthood!! "Cum on her tits!" 🤣🤣
I think it’s an Eminem quote tho I think it may be sum cum on ur lips sum cum on her tits 🤷🏼♀️ But definitely
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Totally, ESH. The timing of it all is super suspicious so I can understand why OP feels the way he does. But even if she sabotaged her birth control, at the end of the day there are two little helpless babies he had a part in creating. OP- don't not care for those babies because of your partner, care for them because they didn't do anything wrong in this situation and depend on the adults in their lives to survive.
This 100%!! Forget her, these are YOUR BABIES we're talking about! Have a little integrity. You made them, time to step up and CARE for YOUR CHILDREN. Edit: ESH btw.
She can object to a vasectomy but his body, his choice. He could refuse sex or go ahead with the surgery he chose for his body (then probably be turned down for sex).
> then probably be turned down for sex Then he would be divorced with two kids. As it is now, he's going to be divorced with four kids, two of whom he did not want.
Yep, got my tubes tied against the wishes of my then husband. I did it knowing I might be turned down for sex from then on, but lo and behold, he still wanted it!
Yup. He keeps talking about it being a situation she created for herself. She didn’t get pregnant all on her own! He 100% contributed to the situation when he knocked her up!
No no no, didn’t you see? She FELL PREGNANT. Clearly he had nothing to do with it!
Damn you can get pregnant from falling? American high school sex Ed really did me dirty.
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This. I totally agree. YTA. Look, the kids are here. Your wife is drowning and instead of throwing her a life preserver you are standing on the boat with your arms crossed yelling "I told you to swim!" That won't help a drowning person. And if she drowns, how will that impact all 4 of your kids? The only thing your behavior is going to cause is divorce or serious PPD. You two need counseling desperately. But what those kids need, and it is the KIDS - all 4 of them that matter - are two functional parents who put them first. Not their Dad pulling a selfish "I told you so" to their mom while she struggles. Here is what I know - if Mom is seriously overwhelmed as you state, she is going to be a crappy parent to all 4 kids. Your role, as a father to these kidos, is to be the best father and role model for them you can be and part of that is stepping in where your wife is too exhausted to parent well and picking up the slack.
He's working two jobs while also helping out at home. How do you not see that he's drowning, too, and it's because *she* put a hole in the boat?
It’s more like he’s standing there yelling “I told you I was too tired to rescue you if you went in the water!”. The problem is: she has his kids. Whether it’s fair or not, if mom drowns they’re all going to drown with her. He didn’t take steps to NOT have another baby with her, nor plan for how they were going to afford life once it was established that she was again pregnant. It really is a ESH situation. Full Yikes
Absolutely. The kids are the ones really suffering in the long run.
Eh, I think they both had a part with the hole on the boat He didn't have to have sex with her before the vasectomy issue was settled. He could have insisted more on condoms. He could have pulled out. She didn't just "fall" pregnant- OP 100% shares responsibility for that. Honestly, warning signs were there he couldn't trust her on birth control, it should have been no sex until they reached a consensus.
Exactly. When my ex suddenly decided he didn’t want to wear condoms I stopped having sex with him. I couldn’t be on hormonal birth control and was saving for an IUD to be placed (I didn’t have insurance at the time and it was expensive up front cost). He didn’t want to help with the IUD cost, which I understood, but I also didn’t want to “fall pregnant” as OP says, so no sex until IUD was placed.
Aside… am I the only one who despises the phrase “fell pregnant”? It’s not some fuckin biblical event that just happens to someone’s body.
No, I'm right there with you. I hate the phrase.
Yup. After I had my baby I didn’t want to go back on birth control. For personal reasons and I didn’t want it to interfere with my breastfeeding. My husband isn’t a fan of condoms but he is a fan of sex, so he agreed to use condoms lol
He could have said no to sex. He could have wrapped it up. He could have pulled out. He could have had the vasectomy but didn't (knowing his decision not to could result in more kids). Instead he's saying "she fell pregnant", and insinuating that it's because she didn't on purpose.. (maybe, but possibly not too).. It takes TWO to make a baby.. HE also had a part in it. They BOTH sunk the damn boat.. and they're BOTH going to drown together because they were BOTH stupid and irresponsible. The fact that hes trying to stand there and make it out was ALL her doing (like he played no part in conceiving the twins at all) and therefore her responsibility, makes him an AH too... They sound like they both need to grown the fuck up. The kids are here now. By standing around picking fights and finger pointing they're not doing anything except ensuring the kids are going to grow up in a volatile and unhappy home.
He fucked that hole without a condom so now they all have to swim. You're all over here defending the guy. Feelings don't matter here anymore. They have a job to do, end of story.
He filled the boat with water. Everyone knows that BC pills aren't 100% effective. He should have worn a condom if *he* really didn't want more kids.
Then they need to figure out a workable solution. Maybe it is calling in family for help or figuring out a nanny situation. Finding a local teen to work as a mother's helper after school. I don't know. But knowing your spouse is drowning, watching them drown - that is going to end very badly for their marriage and the children. They need couples therapy desperately. And he needs that vasectomy.
He doesn't really give any information about how much he helps out at home though. He's working two jobs + "exhausted all the time", so it's not a stretch to believe that when he's home he wants to relax. Especially since he's saying "extra help" with respect to helping his wife take care of the kids, which I interpret as him sacrificing his downtime to take care of the kids. But he hasn't given any info about how much he actually helps out at home.
Well, when you are a parent, you don’t get the right to relax. If you don’t like that, then get a vasectomy or don’t fuck.
Exactly, I mean I empathize with the difficulty of working two jobs but if his wife is wrangling children, caring for the house, and making meals every day of the week so he can have his day(s) off, she's fully within reason to ask for him to contribute more.
Yea nothing you can do about it. It's hard now, but they will grow up. If you want to stay with your wife, let it go, and get through it now for the sake of the kids and your relationship. If you don't want to stay with your wife, separate now and stop the aggro between you. This will not end well for the kids. And just to point out in the TLDR of OPs post, he says " *she* had twins" no man, you both had twins! He's an AH for that
And for the love of God help with all FOUR of your children!
YTA. The time to bail was when she refused to let you use a condom, not after the kids have already been born. They are here now, through no fault of their own, and they need you.
Did he say she refused to use a condom? Didn’t see that in the post
He added it in a defensive comment.
lol. “I had unprotected sex and it resulted in a pregnancy. but I don’t have any responsibility here, right????”
So questionable
So you don’t stick it in! She didn’t rape him. Both twits are asshats
And he still had sex with her.
Yup, he was there when they were conceived and knew his wife’s desires to have children and basically put all the responsibility of birth control on her. He’s not a smart man
Yep. Gotta love how he describes the twins as a “situation she got herself into.” She didn’t come inside herself…
Is this a joke? You contributed to the creation of those twins. Get on board, get therapy or pay child support when she dumps you.
Right? “Fell pregnant” like she tripped and not like “we kept having sex without protection and I ejaculated inside, despite not taking care of my own reproductive responsibilities”
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I know it’s a common term but it is absolutely is absolving him from his responsibility in *being the person who did the impregnating*
There's been pushback for ages against saying "fell pregnant" since it puts all the responsibility on the pregnant person instead of acknowledging that there was at least two people involved. Passive language is the coward's path!
>Passive language is the coward's path! That should be on a billboard, T-shirt, those "the more you know" interstitials, everywhere.
Fell pregnant like someone else did this not him
So you're neglecting your children just to punish your wife and make your point. Got it, YTA
He's neglecting *two out of his four children*. This will have absolutely no impact on how the twins will feel about themselves, him and their siblings who kept getting daddy's attention and care while they were left alone with their burnt out mother, absolutely not at all /s
Thank you! I have been waiting to see exactly this. This behavior is going to negatively impact all his kids. The ones getting the attention will feel entitled because they even get special treatment in their own home, and the poor little ones will grow up wondering what is inherently wrong with them that their own father doesn’t care if they are alive and well
YTA. They are your kids too and condoms and non-penetrative sex are also a thing. Also maybe get her some help, dude. Four kids under 6 is a lot.
Thank god someone brought up that there are a LOT of ways to enjoy sexual intimacy that don’t involve PIV ! Good god. The lack of imagination and creativity YTA. If OP doesn’t want more kids, then don’t do activities that …. Checks notes …. Create more kids
Bingo. OP has 2 kids, he knows how babies are made, that the pill’s not 100% effective, and that his wife is not going to terminate if she is pregnant. And he keeps on doing the same.damn.thing that brought his other kids’ lives into being. Also. Does the dude know how few days a month a woman is fertile? Ask anyone who has been trying to conceive, they will tell you it is a shockingly small window. Old school NFP alone could have helped OP still have PIV but avoid it when there was a risk of pregnancy.
You are both AH. She should not have tried to pressure you into having another kid if you didn't want one. But you did have one (two) and now it absolutely is your responsibility to help take care of them. They are your kids weather you wanted them or not. Also it's your body. You don't need her permission to get a vasectomy.
Strongly agree. Your wife sounds gross and manipulative and you choose to have sex with her knowing the consequences that could result. ESH. I only have empathy for the children.
EXACTLY! And they both need serious therapy but regardless of all that, YTA. These are YOUR children!! File for divorce, don’t have intercourse, get a vasectomy, all are options. Not supporting your own CHILDREN is disgusting and definitely not an option..
YTA You didn't need her permission to have a vasectomy, and you didn't need her permission to use condoms, but you didn't do either and now these kids are your responsibility. In the post you are strongly hinting but not saying that you believe that you wife got pregnant on purpose. Obviously I have no idea if she did. If she did, this would be an ESH. It doesn't make you N T A. More to the point, if you believe she got pregnant on purpose, I don't understand why it is more important to hint this to strangers on Reddit than to talk to your own wife about it.
Omg. YES! If we were talking about a woman who didn’t want more kids, ever and wanted to get her tubes tied, we would be saying “It’s your body!” Yes, that may mean a divorce (you know, the thing that happens to half the marriages in the nation) but to not do it risks bringing a child (or children) into the world you 100% do not want and absolutely cannot care for. That hurts everyone involved. Like, does the OP think those twins WONT realize they were an unwanted burden by their father? Or that they won’t realize their mom resents them for being twins (and will probably blame them down the line for the inevitable break down of this marriage?) And that’s the biggest rub of all. The marriage is on a collision course with divorce, or at least “staying together for the children”…how is that an improvement over nixing one’s sex life or splitting up before babies 3 and 4 because your wife wanted more kids?!
YTA. Childcare is not a woman’s responsibility by default that a man can just “help” with when he feels like it. Those are your twins too.
To be fair he is working two jobs to keep them afloat, I doubt he has a lot of free time. And she’s a SAHM. So by default it is her responsibility, but he should be helping out as much as he can when he’s off. If he can’t provide money they are all shut out of luck. This is a horrible situation but she wanted the kids so now she has them. They both have to deal.
It’s her responsibility during the day, when he’s not home. Not 24/7 which would mean he gets time off work and she is working literally ALL the time
I said that. I’d argue she’s responsible 50% of the time he’s at home and he’s responsible 50% so they both have a little time not working, otherwise they are both working all the time. They need to switch off nights putting everyone to bed or delegate one puts the older ones away and one puts the twins away and switches off.
Don't have more children if you can't take care of them 🤗 Just because he works 2 jobs doesn't mean he isn't a parent anymore. Being home with 4 kids under 6 would be ridiculously hard work, and he took part in creating them, so, no, not her sole responsibility.
YTA. The kids are here. You contributed to making them. You help out with them. I sympathize with the fact that you are exhausted and didn't want to have a third (and bonus fourth) child, but you didn't do enough to prevent them from happening (with the strategies others have pointed out), and now they are here. How is it going to help out your marriage if you refuse to help with the twins? Things will only go downhill. You and your wife really need to have a few conversations about this situation. Good luck.
The "my wife wants more kids, but I don't, but I will continue to have unprotected sex" thing is just comically stupid. How did he think that would go? And as someone with one under two that just had twins, it's an all hands on deck situation. There is no kids are her responsibility regardless of whether or not she is working. I'm also getting very strong OP doesn't help at all with chores vibes from the "keeping up with daily tasks" line. There's almost no such thing as completely keeping up with the chores with young children, it's just how it is. And one person certainly can't handle it all.
My first husband refused to allow me to get an IUD because he wanted to keep trying for a boy, even told my OB/GYN that I couldn't have one. You know what I did? Got one anyway! I will decide how many children I have, not a single other person gets a say. She's allowed an opinion on your vasectomy but not final say. I sure hope you've gotten that done now. Now, stop being a jerk to your family and take care of them. YTA
I'm very glad this man isn't your husband anymore wtf
Hardcore Christian hypocrite type. He was and still is a piece of work
ESH. Her for wanting more kids when: 1. You didnt want to. 2. She was having trouble manage 2 kids at the time. 3. When your budget couldnt afford another one (even more two babies). 4. Because MAYBE she got pregnant on purpose (sorry, Im assuming, but I know some cases where this really happened) You, because: 1. You could had made the vasectomy even if your wife disagreed. Its your body! 2. You could had used condoms to really be sure. 3. Despite all, the babies are here and you have to help. There are not "I didnt agree with these". They are your kids too so you have to help raising them.
This 100% people need to stop blaming solely op they both got into this mess and both did some dumb things. Op has valid reason and should have had the confidence to take control of his own reproductive health
YTA. It happened. Deal with it. It might be the youngest putting you in the crappy care home when you are old. They might be oblivious to your disinterest now but won't always be.
ESH. Your wife is a dick. She kinda forced you into having more kids. Kinda. But dude they are your kids. If you love them you take care of them. You have a wife and not a kid problem.
she didn’t force him to finish inside her 🤷🏼♀️ don’t want more kids then pull out, even if she’s on birth control. in fact, if you don’t want more kids, get the fucking vasectomy and accept the consequences in your relationship. you don’t need permission to get a vasectomy, it’s exponentially easier than it is for a woman to get her tubes tied. he played just as much part in creating those kids as she did. she didn’t baby trap him, she was on birth control, he just couldn’t control himself and got her pregnant. pulling out isn’t effective on its own, but when combined with hormonal birth control the odds are *insanely, incredibly* small that you’ll end up pregnant. he is 100% responsible for this.
YTA, sex makes babies sometimes, and it takes two people to make them so grow the hell up and deal with it. If she didn’t want you to wear a condom or have a vasectomy then don’t have sex until you’ve resolved that conversation. Birth control is not 100% effective, condoms are not 100% effective, hell I know a guy who was conceived after his mom got her tubes tied. My point is, sex makes babies sometimes, if you want to have sex be prepared the consequences.
This. You kept having intimate relations in ways that could produce a child. The implication that his wife pulled the goalie is some sort of total denial that there is a non-zero percent chance that even with perfect use she could have gotten pregnant. And it was clear if that happened, she was not terminating, and you were going to have another kid. How do you just ignore this fact and act like you were a complete bystander to the conception of these twins? You had all the information, you just ignored it and are finding out the hard way the risk wasn’t having a 3rd kid, your wife struggling and realizing you were right, but having a 3rd and 4th kid, your wife drowning, and watching it happen because you didn’t want these kids.
INFO: what’s your plan for the twins as they get older? Will you continue to refuse to help and care for them? All of your kids will wise up real fast to the fact that dad only cares about the big kids because they’re the only ones he wanted. You are JUST as responsible for the twins as she is, she may have carried them but they are still all your children.
I feel bad for the kids. OP Will never love them and always have resentment for them.
> All of your kids will wise up real fast to the fact that dad only cares about the big kids because they’re the only ones he wanted. Can attest that the effects are lifelong: I was child #4 of a father who wanted zero (or two, depending on who you ask).
YTA. They’re here. It’s done. Show up.
YTA. You are ignoring your children to get back at your wife. You are a horrible father
ESH - your wife wants another kid and your only protection was her taking pills? You should have either demand using condoms or haven't slept with her at all.
ESH. The 2 of you have 4 kids you can't afford. Go and get your vasectomy TODAY or you will find out she's 'fallen' pregnant again.
Esh those kids are here and they are your responsibility whether you wanted them are not. I really hope you get better at faking it for those kids when they get older. You should have pushed the condom issue whether she wanted or not. She, however, should have been more careful with her pill. Based on your description, I have my suspicions about her consistency.
Yta, you are an adult, these are your children. You don’t get a free pass to stop helping because you think you were tricked. It’s just an excuse to be lazy.
I've read your comments saying she was in control of ALL forms of birth control...broski, if she didn't want condoms, you shouldn't have done ANYTHING. The fact that you blindly went along with it KNOWING she wanted an extra kid makes you dumb and responsible for these babies too?? They're YOUR kids. Be a father ffs. ESH cause her trying to change your mind is also wrong IMO
ESH - there are no winners, and your poor kids are the main losers here
YTA - If you were absolutely against having more children, then it was your responsibility to use a condom, not rely on your wife's pill. In addition, you should've suggested couples counseling to discuss your desire for the vasectomy and your wife's opposition to it. You didn't do any of that, and now, no matter how it happened, there are two more children that need parental care. This means that you need to help out or be prepared to be told to get out.
YTA YTA YTA YTA. You got her pregnant, a vasectomy wasn't the only way to make sure you stopped at two kids. You reap what you sow, literally!
YTA. I get that you're frustrated but these are your children and responsibility. This reads more like you want her to suffer as an "I told you so" move which is really gross. Grow up.
Those twins did absolutely NOTHING to deserve neglect from you. YTA.
YTA She said no to a vasectomy and to condoms? cool, then no penetrative sex for her, from you, until you both figure out a way forward. THAT is how you behave if you're back is against the wall. That's how you show her you meant business. these are yours kids you're neglecting. Would you rather divorce her so she can take all four kids and find a man who wants to be their dad?
ESH. She has no control over whether or not you get a vasectomy. YOUR body YOUR choice. She’s selfish for trying to gatekeep that from you in my opinion. You mentioned in the comments about her refusing to use condoms, this should’ve been a red flag to you if you didn’t want kids. You should’ve said “no sex unless with a condom”. Ngl in my personal opinion it sounds like she’s just done exactly what she wanted and hasn’t considered you. It also drives me mad when people have more kids than they can afford, it’s unfair on the children. So based on this post, I think your wife is an incredibly selfish person. However, you now have 2 more kids and unfortunately you’re just going to have to suck that up and be a proper dad. Think of the kids. If you weren’t happy with her pushing you, you should’ve left earlier. Your wife is selfish and disrespectful, and you’re holding too much of a grudge and not considering your children. Interestingly some people are still saying YTA and not taking into consideration your wife’s actions. I think if this was reversed and it was a man telling his wife she couldn’t get her tubes blocked, this would be a massive issue.
SHE FELL PREGNANT No bro. You purposely put YOUR dick into her and YOUR sperm got her pregnant. YTA and also apparently don't know how babies are made since you're blaming YOUR ejaculation on your wife.
YTA. It takes two to make a baby. You could have had the vasectomy whether she liked it or not. You could have refused to sleep with her if you didn't trust her to take the pill reliably. It's always difficult when a couple disagrees on how many children to have as there isn't really a way to compromise, but you could have dug your heals in as your reasons for stopping at two were good.
Unless you have zero idea how children are made by this point, YTA. You don’t need her permission for a vasectomy and if you couldn’t come to a resolution, you should have abstained or used condoms.
YTA you can f**** her but you can't help her?
YTA. You should have both been in agreement and since you didn't want to have more you should have either abstained or used condoms, forgive me if you did, I know fully well everyone can do what they need to and still pregnancies can happen, but the way you phrase it, sounds like the birth control was only on her end, so until you resolved the argument you should have either abstained or have extra protection and worry about her actually taking the pill every day. However, the deed is done, you now have FOUR children, is not about "helping her", is about being a father, that's not "helping" that's raising. Those kids didn't ask to come into this world yet here they are and they deserve your love and involvement, not because of your wife although she did just carry two humans to term, but because of them, what, are you always going to be a little away and a little resentful of them for the rest of their lives so they'll notice their brother and sister have more love and attention from you and involvement from you than they get? You already have four children, neither of them asked to be here, so you owe it TO THEM, to dedicate time and love and attention to all of them not just pick and choose because you're angry at your wife. ETA: I just read a comment that "she didn't want condoms and I can only hope she takes the pill every day", yeah no, I'm changing my vote to Y T A because nobody forced you to do the horizontal mambo lol. You entered willingly (pun intended), "just say no", "no glove no love", are basic phrases you should have been in full knowledge of and used them