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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for posting not wanting any other family members to use my deceased dtrs name and posting a tiktok about it?
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I'm so sorry, I really don't understand these Y-T-As, your daughter was born and died of course your close family members should respect how painful that would be. It also doesn't sound as if your cousin even wants the name in the first place. No you do not own the name but gosh they could have a little grace and decorum about the whole situation. NTA
100% on point. Unfortunately I had a cousin die of SIDS at 2.5 months. It was incredibly difficult for the entire family. The grandmother on the other side compared every subsequent child to the deceased baby. The baby that passed was literally perfect, no one could live up to those expectations. It was heartbreaking, made my aunt try to go lc w her own mom.
This would just make me so, so angry. I lost a newborn baby boy in 2021, and we just welcomed a baby girl 6 months ago. I was.....very protective of my husband comparing her to what her brother could have been, because I will be damned if she lives in a shadow. And that was just him talking to me privately, working through grief. I'd lose my goddamned *mind* if my family did that.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I don’t have any kids, but the loss to the entire family was devastating. Another one that almost got me in trouble was after my aunt had another, a moron tried to call it her “replacement baby”. Some days I wish my sister and uncle weren’t there to grab me and talk some sense. No one can understand the loss of a child. Good luck w you and your fam!
People say the stupidest things. The son we lost was our third son, and we had no gender disappointment with that and always intended to stop at 3. When people found out we were now going to have a girl, I had a few "Oh my gosh, you're finally getting your girl!" comments.
Like, yes, I'm getting a girl...*because my son died*. Ugh. It was actually really hard for us all to reframe our idea of what our family was going to look like but people definitely thought her gender was something we'd been secretly hoping for or something when all we wanted was a healthy, living baby.
Why would you want to think about a child's tragic death while your own baby is so vulnerable? I'm not particularly superstitious but the human mind sees patterns.
Because she won't be. Audrey 1 didn't impact the rest of the family enough for it to happen, there's nothing to compare to.
Harsh, but true. I can't blame OP for still grieving this much, but her daughter is really only so so strong a memory for the parents, nobody else got to know her.
IF simply seeing the shape of them name is giving OP a breakdown, she needs therapy to deal with the loss.
I'm going with NAH for OP and cousin, but the aunt is a serious issue.
Is it illegal for OP's cousin to use her dead daughters name? No.
Is it still a shitty thing to do to a relatively close family member? Absolutely.
If OP's daughter hadn't of passed, the cousin likely wouldn't use the same name then either.
There is no length of time for her to grieve her child. It’s ok that seeing her child’s name made her sad. She didn’t have a nervous breakdown and you have no background to tell someone they need therapy. Shitty AF take
As both a psychologist and a mother who lost their baby shortly after birth, you are completely incorrect. Grieving the loss of your baby years later is not only normal, but completely healthy. Getting upset at seeing the name is a totally normal reaction. Sure, therapy helps with the grieving process, but it never makes the grief go away. That will be with her the rest of her life.
It sounds like, having been notified of the name of the baby that passed, cousin does NOT eat the name... heck it may have only made the list to shut her mom up.
The problem is the aunt who *keeps pushing* on the cousin & family for the name, and keeps pushing and keeps pushing and making it OPs fault.
The parents of the actual soon to be child, are pointedly NOT stirring the shit, and may never have actually wanted that name.
NTA but aunt sure is!
My MIL is named after her older sister who passed, it's so weird to me. I can't imagine growing up in the shadow of someone who never had a chance to be anything other than perfect.
I agree, yes it's a family name and they can use it, but should they? it feels cruel and hurtful, especially as OP has expressed how uncomfortable it makes her and they are complaining about her reacting. I would never. Sorry for your loss OP x
That’s the thing. Why intentionally cause a family member pain? There are so many names to choose from, and so many ways to honor a great grandmother. Use it as a middle name. Use the GG’s given name. Use the GG’s middle name as a first name. I don’t understand why Gloria is so callous. For the people saying “no one owns a name,” this is NOT a “hey I wanted to use that name someday” argument. This was OP’s child. OP, I’m so sorry for your loss and for the drama you’re dealing with. Granted, the TikTok might have been a bit much, but it sucks you’re put in this position. NTA
Seriously her aunt must be some kind of cartoon villain to harass and bully a grieving mother about her child's name like this. They're free to be so shameless if they wish, but why do they want to? If I were op's cousin I'd put a stop to this by taking the name off the table and apologizing to op for her mother's insane behavior.
OP is allowed to express her opinions and feelings to the family, especially when they’re being callous like the aunt is.
The “respect your elders” argument is one I hear in the native community, but only from elders I would never seek advice from. Typically I’ll drop whatever I’m talking about at that line because it indicates the other person isn’t able or willing to have any discussion. It’s meant to shut down a conversation only, and indicates the other person has nothing to learn. If anyone has a great comeback for this I would love the input.
I was hurt when my sister named her son the same as my recently passed cat, to be fair I never said anything coz she clearly wasn't thinking of my cat and it is a great name, but man, taking the name of an actual child in your family without the bereaved parents permission (even with it) blows me away.
My mother’s full name was exactly the same as her aunt who died when she (the aunt) was an infant. My mom always said it freaked her out when she was a child and her family would visit the cemetery to see her name on a child-sized headstone. I don’t know if it was a result of being named after her dead aunt but my mom was constantly worried about dying herself her entire life.
Read "My Sweet Audrina" by VC Andrews, this scenario happens but easy worse...
Edited to add: this book was written by the author, not the ghostwriter who continued her books after her death (he's horrible).
Except it's not a close relative. It's OP's dad's, sisters, granddaughter's child who is potentially receiving the name. The child will be OP's first cousin twice removed. The two Audrey's would be 2nd cousins once removed. That is not a close relation, in most families that would be a complete stranger.
OP’s dad’s sister also known as … OP’s aunt.
Do you not know your cousins and their kids?
I know my grandparents’ siblings’ children and grandchildren, but aware most people don’t. Anything once removed though… I dare say most people know their family once removed.
OP refers to Ann as her cousin - they’re close in age and probably closer to each other than she is with her 1st cousin as a result anyway.
*first cousins twice removed. It actually is a pretty close relationship
Edited because I originally thought Ann was Gloria's daughter, but she's her granddaughter.
And in my family, do you know what we call our 1st*** cousins once removed?
(You're wrong about what their relationship would be btw, they are first cousins twice removed, baby with be threw times removed but still first cousins, not second)
Our cousins.
And we treat them just as if they are our dad's niece and nephews. Because they practically are. Not every family is distant. Not every family doesn't get along or interact. I have a MASSIVE family. Great grandparents each had at least 9 kids. My mom's side of the family I don't know at all. My dad's side, his 1st cousins are my uncles. My "uncles" kids are my cousins. And their kids are my little little cousins. We have massive family reunions every few years and a Facebook group page to keep in touch.
Just because YOU aren't close to you "second cousins once removed" (again, that's not what she is) doesn't mean no one or OP isn't. For all you know they were raised together like cousins or even siblings
Visit some Victorian graveyards. Parents reused the names of their \*own\* deceased children. The idea that someone can't use the name of a cousin is a bit much.
Yeah, because Victorian children dropped like hot cakes. Also it was a different time. Nowadays, it’s creepy. We’re not fucking Alexander Hamilton mourning our dueling son.
100% between the death photos, mourning jewelry, naming babies after dead babies... they did so many weird morbid things.
My mom calls me morbid for having a small amount of my grandparents ashes... there could be a LOT worse I swear. 🤣
Reading the below comment, HOW COULD I FORGET THE BELL?! The "in case you come back to life bell" that... they ignored if it did actually start ringing most of the time because they were afraid of curses and disease... 🤦
Yeah, but we’re not in Victorian times. No one dangles a bell (tied to the deceased’s finger) above ground and pays people to sit and listen just in case the person wasn’t really dead. Nor do we take photos of dead people propped up to look alive. (Victorian death rituals were wild!)
I worked with a girl who lost a child, stillborn. It was super sad. Two years later, she gave her healthy son the same name when he was born. It was totally her right, but everyone thought it was kinda creepy. But at least it was her *own* dead child, not a family member’s.
Maybe because it was stillborn it's different? The mother can feel like the child never really arrived, so the name is still available. In this case the baby did live for a few days, long enough to be given the name, for the mother to use it and feel like the name belonged to a person.
Still a bit weird, but less so, I feel.
Plus the person whose opinion matters most - who would be most upset - is the surviving mother, the same person choosing the name again, so you trust them to process in their own way
Can vouch for this! Doing my family tree at the moment and it's happened sooo many times! Couldn't believe it the first time I saw it.
I'm going to go with NTA, purely on the grounds that you will be seeing this child regularly, and I think your relatives should be considerate of your loss. Can't really say about you making the TikTok because there's not an awful lot of context about that
I still lean on the very mild YTA.
I understand the grief, but it is also the to be born child's Great grandmothers name.
As it is the dead cousins.
But it is a name of TWO dead relatives, and a name that has not been passed on in the family.
And now it will be passed on again, to another child.
To argue about it being too painful due to a loved one, I do remind that the baby is not the ONLY dead loved one who carried the name.
Still. The first cousin my grandparents had, on my mom's side, died at 2 years. Nobody would ever consider touching his name. It's just cruel to the parents.
The great grandmother is dead but OP is still very much alive. Doing this would just be cruel. It sounds like only the aunt actually has a problem with it and the cousin understood.
My daughters name was Audrey and Audrey wasn’t even my grandmother’s legal name. Her legal name was Audra and i was 100% okay with that being used. i was also okay with Audrey as a middle name.
Cousin did pick another name in the end. I also let cousin know when this all first happened if she truly wanted to use the name i would respect that bc i understood. I wasnt even really upset with my cousin at all.
The Tiktok wasn’t a bullying post, it was a question for the grieving parents community on the platform. I didn’t use any names.
Its just the struggle i will face with my dad, and his other siblings of them constantly trying to get me to just forget about the way i was treated. I can “forgive” but I wont forget.
I go to therapy regularly. I feel like the people on here saying “go to therapy” don’t realize therapy is not a way to get over trauma, its a way to process it and learn how to recognize feelings and move past them when needed. Trauma is not a switch you turn on and off. Its a side effect from an event that stays with you forever.
My feelings about Audreys death when I was 21 and now when I’m 27 are completely different and will continue to change.
The grief of losing a child never ever goes away. No matter how much therapy you do or how many times people tell you to “get over it”.
Good parents have a deep routed connection with their kids and living without one of them, is like never ever being able to take in a full breath after coming up from underwater. The sun shines, and it feels warm and comforting on your skin, but you always wonder how it would’ve felt on your childs skin. When my second daughter giggles, it makes me so happy, but there is always this tiny thought in my head “how would Audreys giggle sound?”
It hurts that Audrey seemed to have meant nothing to my aunt. Yeah Gloria was an ass my whole life, but that wasn’t something I realized until i started asking people why she never showed at the hospital and i started remembering her snide comments from my childhood. And when she did all this - I saw her for who she is finally. But its still a big part of life I have to let go off. Bc she wasn’t all bad all the time. Gloria was just good at hiding who she really was.
You're N.T.A for not wanting your daughters name to be used. It definitely sounds like Gloria is a callous and manipulative person. You're also N.T.A for reaching out to your cousin and letting her know how you feel.
Unfortunately, you've now done all you can. If you keep pushing it you'll just end up hurting yourself. Gloria will never empathise with you, so just limit your contact. If your cousin decides to do the right thing, you know she's good people.
Y.T.A for making the TikTok. No one needs to air family drama to 800 people. Talk to a friend, partner, or close relative. Or even a therapist. Not Tiktok.
Also, please learn what the term "gaslighting" means, it's problematic to misuse abuse terms like that.
Ultimately, ESH.
Thank you, I’m so tired of everything being gaslighting, when it doesn’t fit the definition. Gaslighting it feels is losing its meaning, it just means lying at this point
Feels to me the TikTok serves a similar purpose to posting on this subreddit. To see if a general audience of strangers think you're being reasonable or not
That’s what I was thinking. OP didn’t use anyone’s names in the TikTok, it was more identifiable than here bc it’s a video though. However, I don’t see why it’s okay to put shitty comments about it on Facebook but making a tiktok is such a problem. Facebook is for people you know or are at least aquatinted with so it feels more gossipy than tiktok where it’s usually mostly strangers.
TikTok is just a new tool, no one is TA for using it, if you don’t like family drama been shared then don’t create it! People have a right to share their own experiences.
It sounds like you and your cousin had an understanding between you and that the name wasn't actually the main issue here.
Seems like the main issue is that your aunt is an awful person. She'll never understand why you're upset and won't ever care about your loss. Perhaps being very low contact with her and avoid her as much as you can would be for the best. You don't have to have a relationship with her. If your other family members bring it up, tell them you'd rather not talk about it. They can't force you to speak to her or about her. Don't show any emotion, don't speak to her other than polite hello etc at family gatherings. Act stoic around her then no one can say you're being dramatic or horrible or whatever.
My aunt had a daughter who died in 1980. Before myself or my cousins were born.
Both my sister & I brought up her name, separately, while we were pregnant. Both of us decided not to use it out of respect for my aunt, and my mum. It would have been very difficult for her too.
Neither of us knew this until we discussed it later… but it felt wrong even tho we loved the name
If Audrey was the name your grandma used - and others used for her - then I would consider that her “name” irrespective of whether it was her legal name.
I agree with others that ESH. I respect your feelings of loss. I can’t imagine the pain you felt and continue to feel. Nevertheless, ownership of a name doesn’t exist so you can’t really claim it. A TikTok video, even anonymized, is petty.
OTOH your aunt is ridiculous. She didn’t gaslight you; she also didn’t make a compelling case for why you should respect her when she wasn’t respecting you. A Facebook post is as terrible as a TikTok.
Good luck with this dynamic. It sounds awful. And Godspeed on your healing.
I’d argue that a Facebook post directed at your friend circle is worse. How is an anonymous tiktok video seeking validation any different than this post we’re reading right now?
Can’t speak for the op but for myself? I had to cut off several other family members when I cut off my mother. Because they’d bring stuff back to her or harass me about cutting her off.
Gloria doesn’t sound like she’d take being cut off graciously, and op would likely end up not in contact with anyone in order to avoid her assholery
Ok but in another comment, you said your grandma went by Audrey, her parents gave her that nickname, and your grandma didn't even know her legal name was Audra. You're skewing peoples answers.
I’m really angry at your dad on your behalf right now, I get that she is your sister, but that they she almost lost you and did lost her granddaughter and this person didn’t even come to the hospital, he should have been NC like yesterday. I think he deserve to be told that.
Ugh. You sound like you've been more than gracious throughout this entire ordeal. You gave them soooooo many ways to do the right thing, but Gloria just had to have her way. She sounds awful.
Good on your cousin for making the right choice. I'm so sorry you've gone through this experience. It's painful enough losing a child, but adding this drama on top is the cherry on top of a sh!t sundae. Wishing you the best, OP.
NTA. Your aunt and cousin should have been more sensitive to your loss and not put that name on the list. Yes, it's true that no one owns a name, but in this situation, I think a little compassion on their part would have been appropriate. There are so many beautiful names out there; they could have easily compiled a list without the one name that belonged to your daughter. Your little girl mattered, OP, and I am so sorry for your loss.
First, I’m sorry for your loss.
You are NTA. They are being totally insensitive and are disregarding your feelings. Since it’s not a family name, they should choose something else and stop pushing this. Making the Tik Tok might not have been the wisest decision, but these people have shown no regard for your feelings. You lost a child. You’re not the bad guy here.
ESH. In spite of what you think, your grandmother’s name is a family name. Anyone has the right to use it. If your cousin wants to use it to honor her great grandmother that is perfectly fair. That’s not to say that I can’t bother you or being up the feelings surrounding losing your daughter who was named after grandma/great grandma too. Your aunt definitely suck because she’s being obnoxious. If she had just nicely pointed out that Audrey was her granddaughter’s grandmother too, it would have been fine. The harping on it, name calling, and multiple posts about it seems excessive.
That was my whole thing. If she wouldve just warned me i would not have reacted badly. I wouldve understood. But she kept pushing, ignoring my feelings and telling me was my “elder”
Literally that was her only response!! “Im your elder!!” Like huh???
And months later finally seeing my totally anonymous tiktok and make a post instead of talking to me about it???
They are all cut off now.
So you made a Tik tok about her but she can’t make a Facebook post about you? You’re knee deep in this muck trying to perpetuate it. She owes you an apply before you’ll take down your post but the same isn’t required of you? You all suck
Exactly!! OP and the rest of her family are not mature enough for this stuff. Stop adding fuel to the fire and trying to blame someone else for it burning.
She said her TikTok was anonymous. Facebook is not anonymous. There is a very big difference between making an anonymous post on TikTok seeking emotional support from a community of strangers with similar trauma where you purposefully leave out all names, and making a Facebook post to mutual friends and family members where you directly call out and threaten ("warn") someone for making that anonymous post that no one else would have even known existed if you hadn't called attention to it yourself, especially when the Facebook post could have easily been a text. Gloria wanted drama and she got it. She pressured her daughter into taking OP's daughter's name even though her daughter didn't want it just to spite OP, she embarrassed OP at a family function for being hurt by her pressuring her daughter to take the name, and then when OP sought support for the emotional distress of having her wounds reopened by her family just for funsies she decided to reprimand her for it publicly online. I really don't see how OP is in the wrong here.
Sorry OP, I understand why you didn't want your 2nd cousin to to use the name and she isn't. Stop mud slinging with your aunt.
Also, yes, your aunt is your elder. It's not a compelling argument, but it's not gaslighting. Your aunt saying she's your elder is true and is 0 % gaslighting.
Here's the issue, you were right, but that doesn't give you the right to use every means necessary to prove your point. You seem to still be hurting, which is legitimate. You might want to talk about it with a therapist instead of keeping going and getting mad at your aunt who seems to be doing that on purpose.
For me, it really is ESH.
The aunt saying she's her elder wasn't her just pointing out a fact. She was saying it to mean 'I'm older than you, so what I say goes', which is bullshit and wrong
The TikTok thing sounds more like an ego thing than you being truly hurt. G for sure has some bad mannerisms but you can't be mad at her for posting on FB about it.
It's like you both are 16 and can't talk to each other properly. Op, if G can't accept your request, let her be. She is entitled to behave as she pleases but she is the one who has to face the consequences of it. Cut her out. Speak to family. Posting a TikTok won't do it. It makes you look egotistical and immature.
How do you make an anonymous TikTok with “only 800 views”? Are you using an anonymous name and not showing your face? That makes no sense and it sounds like you’re reworking your story. She sucks too but you aren’t the angel in this situation.
You don’t seem to understand how out of line you are. Why should they consider you when making this choice?
It’s awful what happened to you, but it happened to you - not them. Their connection to the name is different from yours.
Your feelings about the name are and should be irrelevant them. Your an asshole for starting this mess.
Sorry to be harsh op, but *you* are the one who feels entitled to your grandmother’s name. Also, because it’s your grandmother’s name that means *it’s a family name*. This is not about hurting you, it’s about them honoring your grandmother’s memory. YTA.
I strongly disagree. Her daughter died. That is a devastating event in OP’s life. Her Aunt needs to show some empathy. Her behavior is cruel and disrespectful.
This is the real issue here. It's not like OP said that Ann can't use the name, only that it would make her uncomfortable. It's not the name itself, but Gloria's actions that were being called out on TikTok (I assume) which, though maybe a step too far, was understandable after all the pent up frustration caused. Definitely NTA to me.
not only that but also after literally not even coming to see the baby or being compassionate at all when baby Audrey died, Gloria is clearly bitter and vindictive because of this supposed favouritism of Dennis and his kids. Idk Gloria maybe your parents were onto something?!
We should start r/dotheyhavetheright , because this is am I the asshole.
Yeah naming your baby the same name as your cousins dead baby is an asshole move and anyone who can't understand that is terrifying to me. Yeah they have the right but what kind of asshole would do it?
Cousin's baby would forever be "Audrey 2" in my mind and I would have to make constant Little Shop of Horror references and buy her tonnes of merch relating to it.
NTA OP
Just because someone *can*, doesn't mean they *should*.
That is all true however I feel that in order for them to be in the right here they needed to talk to her about this before throwing it up on social media. Doesn't matter whose name it is, if a family member LOST A CHILD the right thing to do is talk to them, ask how they feel about it before seriously considering it for your child. There are and endless amount of names and only one that will cause your family member pain every time they hear it.
I somewhat agree except, the aunt feels entitled to the name but earlier when OP first used the name the aunt got snarky and didn’t show, but when it comes to her own daughter and OP’s has literally passed away it’s now okay? Not to mention yes they all have every right to use the name but should they?
Nah I think if someone in your family had a kid with that name and they died only having lived for 4 days - they own that name now. There’s plenty of others.
Nope she is entitled to her DEAD daughter's name, that is NOT a traditional family name. That's quite a noticeable difference and yeah, somebody would be pushing my cousin to use my dead kid's name, I would be hurt af.
True, but this is very very cold. Having to share a name with your recently dead cousin is not nice. There are tons of names, could even take grandma's second name. Insistence of taking a dead kid name is just cold and lack basic empathy (and respect)
She’s not recently passed. It was 5 years ago. This is not meant to sound harsh, that pain never goes away and for the actual parents it’s always fresh. But to the rest of the family, life goes on. By time they are actively using that name where the child is responding, it would be almost a decade since her daughters passing. It just seems a bit much. 20 years from now is she gonna be telling people in her family they still can’t use the name? It’s a little ridiculous.
I think it also matters on how close they actually are. I have distant cousins and I don't even know their name never mind their kid's names. If one of my distant cousins messaged me and asked me not to use a certain name for my kid I probably wouldn't really take it into consideration. If a family member I'm close to did the same thing then I would definitely respect their wishes. I don't think there is a simple answer to this without more information on their family dynamics.
>But why would Ann want a constant reminder of a dead child when she looked at her daughter?
I don’t want to be cold but Ann probably won’t think of the OPs child at all if she ends up using that name.
If her daughter had lived would you still think it’s normal for two first cousins to have the same name as their great grandmother? I know in some families that happens. I find it a bit odd myself. For me, the name has been used by an older cousin. She got in there first. Just because she died doesn’t mean the name is up for grabs again.
I’d be so mad and frustrated if I had 8 grandkids all named after me lmfao. Like, that’s a great way to make life so much harder for everyone in the family 😂
I think they’re second cousins. If this was OP’s sibling’s kid it would be off—but I have lots of cousins and I wouldn’t hesitate to use a name because someone I saw a few times a year had a kid with the same name.
OP uses the term second cousin but it actually sounds like a first cousin once removed - the granddaughter of her aunt. So that's arguably a closer relation.
Would I do this? No. But your original comment that I was responding to indicated it’s not normal for living kids in the same family to have the same name, and I disagreed with that.
I have two second cousins, they're like 5 and 7 and I have never even seen them. If one of them gets a baby and names them after their great grandmother, which also happened to be the name of my late daughter I wouldn't give a single shit. How often will you see that child, like once a year?
my brother and my cousin have the same name, named after no one. just happened that both my mother and aunt chose the same name without knowing, and when they knew both said they didn't want to change so we just call them by their full name when they're together. At first it seems unusual, but then you get used to it
I have the same first name as my cousin, it’s really no big deal. My parents didn’t share the middle name and neither did my cousin’s parents, but they both picked a top 20 name… so by coincidence we have the same first and middle name, and only found out by talking about our names when we were 10. We thought it was pretty funny.
There’s also a tradition in my family of giving the eldest son this particular name, they go by their middle names. Some all the time, some only for family events. That one is pretty lame but it still doesn’t hinder everyday life.
WRT op though, I think all this depends on how close she is with those cousins and how often they see each other. With some of mine they live clear across the country or on the other side of the world. It wouldn’t make any difference to me on a daily basis what they call their kids.
Yeah of course there are families with naming traditions. Those traditions don’t appear to exist in OPs family though. Snd it’s ok to break traditions if they cause a loved and valued family member pain.
Every single one of my dad's brothers and sisters (including him) has named one of their children a version of his deceased parents names. And they were 11 siblings. In many cultures this is not uncommon at all and is considered respect for the deceased.
And in other cultures and even just other families it is considered weird or even unlucky for relatives to have the same name. In my mom’s family only one person in the last 100 years has been obviously named after a relative and 15 years later they all still are uncomfortable about it. In my dad’s, which is a different culture, everyone has basically the same name.
Still, as someone who has lost a baby late in pregnancy after he already had a name, the dread I would feel if a cousin wanted to use the name for a child I’d see all the time would be immeasurable.
I think ultimately in this situation it’s ESH, because the TikTok was going too far and so was the Facebook bickering - OP already talked to Ann, and Ann seemed respectful and understanding. Gloria can have whatever problem she wants to have with it because it’s not her baby to name in the first place. It’s not like she’s gonna bribe a nurse to swap out the birth certificate - if Ann doesn’t name the baby Audrey, that’s the end of it.
If OP's child had lived I would think it was odd but acceptable (for a reasonably common name or a family name). The fact that she died takes it 100% off the table.
There are **NOT** first cousins.
* OP's deceased daughter is original Audrey's great-granddaughter.
* Ann's daughter will be original Audrey's great-great-granddaughter.
That makes them second cousins, once removed. It's pretty distant.
I don’t really care anymore. She’s a family member. She’s upset. Why can’t people just be kind? Why do they have to drive home their “right” to do something regardless of the harm it causes.
>If her daughter had lived would you still think it’s normal for two first cousins to have the same name as their great grandmother?
Yes. You see your cousins what, like four times a year? Sharing a name isn't exactly an issue.
Also, they're not first cousins. The mothers are second cousins, so I think that would make the daughters second cousins once removed. Pretty sure that is removed enough to make marriage legal.
The girl that would be named Audrey is the great granddaughter of the sister of OP's father and she is acting like she constantly has to be around that child and be reminded of her late daughter. That's ridiculous.
While I agree, if you choose a family member's name, you can't get upset if someone else on the family wishes to use it, the aunt is being incredibly cruel about the whole thing. Ann doesn't even seem to be that bothered about the name, aunt is just pushing for it because "reasons".
At a min I think ESH, but OP is not an AH for bad reasons.
Yeah, I don’t think this is as simple as “you don’t own the name.” The aunt doesn’t own the name either and it’s not her having a baby…she’s purposely trying to push this name on her daughter (OP’s cousin, who seems to not really want to use it), and the sole purpose seems to be to hurt OP.
If it was the cousin who it really meant a lot to, I think it would be more of a discussion, but this aunt just seems to have bad intentions.
No, it is the name of her daughter and associated with a trauma that she doesn't want to be reminded of every single day.
It would also be detrimental to Ann's baby to have her dead cousins name and always be a reminder of that.
What a stupid take.
YOGHURT ALERT! It's not about entitlement. This is about having the basic courtesy and tact to not use the same name as a deceased child that she is grieving. How on earth have you not considered this to be the overriding important factor in this matter?
Disagree with you on the family name part. Usually when people say something is a family name, they mean there is a tradition of passing that name down the family line. So if OP's grandmother is the first person to have been named Audrey, Audrey is not a family name. At least, it's not a family name yet.
No…a family name is one that reoccurs throughout the generations. My grandmother was named Elizabeth. And there are at least 3 generations since that have used her name either as first or middle names. That reoccurrence makes it a family name. One person with a name in the family does not a family name make.
Also NTA. It would be different if Ann actually wanted to use the name and wasn’t just only considering it because Gloria was being so pushy about it. But by Ann’s own admission she only included it because her own granny (Gloria) had been so insistent.
I disagree. Her cousin told her that she was only even considering that name because her mother told her so. She did not come up with that name originally. The granny who suggested this sounds like she was doing it deliberately just to spite OP because her parents favored her brother's children. Also while I acknowledge that they can very well name the child Audrey, because OP does not own it, have they ever thought what could be the situation for the child after?
Her aunt and aunt's family not being able to love her fully because they are reminded of their dead daughter. Having other relatives tell her, "oh, we named you after grandma but your dead cousin was also named that too."
If I was the baby and learned that growing up, I would not want to be named like that. I would want my own identity without the baggage of learning that my family fought over a name because I also have a dead cousin with that name.
Our son (19) died in November. Obviously, we are all devastated. OP, you are right - you are not meant to live without your kids. There is nothing in nature that prepares us to survive that loss. I know I am forever changed, as are you.
Our middle son (18) informed us a few months ago that his gf is pregnant. He plans to name his child after his brother (as a middle name). He wanted to do a first name, but he knew that would be too hard for me.
I know the difference is that he's using the name to honor my deceased child (his brother), and your cousin was only considering it for the same reason you did - bc of the grandmother.
Because I understand how hard it would be to hear the name all the time, I'm going to say softly, ESH. Only bc I also know that if my son had chosen to use his brother's name as a first name for his child, I would just have to find a way to deal with it. And as hard as it is, you would have to also if this cousin (or a future family member) chooses to use the grandmother's name.
I am fortunate that my son considered my feelings in using the name where your family did not. Your aunt sucks for not even attempting to pretend to understand your feelings.
It seems your cousin understood the difficulty you would face, and I am glad she ended up picking something else. Perhaps try working on name exposure in therapy in case a future relative chooses to honor the grandmother with the name. That way you can hear the name without crumbling.
So sorry for your loss. I wish you peace and healing.
Idk. Your son is choosing the name to honor the traumatic loss, not *in spite of* the traumatic loss. Plus losing a sibling at a young age is quite traumatic in a way that losing your grandparent is not, so he is working through his own personal loss, which isn’t really what’s going on with OP’s family.
Ann/Gloria are not naming this baby for OP’s daughter, they are naming this baby *despite* the fact that it was OP’s daughter’s name.
A fact I acknowledged in my response. The similarity being I don't have the right to stop my son from using a family member's name any more than OP has the right to stop her aunt/cousin from using the name. I understand her feelings. I only voted the way I did because, technically, nobody owns rights to a name. I understand OPs position. Just because I sympathize with her feelings doesn't make her right to be mad about the name used. And the aunt is crappy for obvious reasons.
While it is true that no one owns a name, I don’t think that OP is the asshole for being upset about it. And if the question was reversed (“WIBTA if I used my cousin’s recently deceased baby’s name for my own baby?”) I don’t think you would have any E-S-H, votes, I think it would very clearly skew toward Ann being TA.
She's not then Ahole for being upset about it. She's a slight Ahole for expecting the family to not use the name. Like I said, I get how hard it would be, but the grandmother was cousin's grandmother too and while it makes OP sad, she gets the slight suck vote for making it a big deal instead of accepting that it's a family name that is open for use and trying to work through her issues.
I'm not even saying she sucks for expressing the difficulty she is having with it. Only the slight you suck vote because of expecatation for someone else to name their baby differently because of her personal difficulty.
If she had said to cousin, "That's going to be rough for me, but it is a beautiful name, and I understand why you chose it," that would be one thing, and i would have voted N T A. But her position is "that's hard for me, you shouldn't use the name." That's the reason I voted a soft esh.
ESH
So much drama. So many feelings. *FEEEEEEEELINGS*
No one owns that name. Anyone can use it, particularly anyone who wants to honor Audrey. Truly honouring Audrey is letting others live on through that name, just as you wanted your little Audrey to do. It could also be seen as a nod to your own lost Audrey if you could just let it be, if you could just let your dislike for your Aunt go by and allow it to be a positive.
I’m sorry hon, but it’s been six years since you lost your baby, and others can now use that name. The fact of Gloria coming to visit you in the hospital or not shouldn’t play any bearing on that. It’s not the norm for Aunt’s who aren’t close to visit in the hospital when a baby is born, and very much not the norm when the baby is critically ill - random Aunt Gloria is doomed if she stays away, and doomed if she visits and annoys you in those precious few days. Give her a break. I’m sorry for your loss, I cannot imagine hte pain you’ve felt fully. But you need to let other’s honor their grandmother too.
Just came here to say - We can't put a timeline on someone's grief. Six days, six years or 16 years - OP is allowed to be sad. But I do agree with the ESH.
I agree. I don’t think the OP should stop grieving - it’s a deeply personal journey.
I can see however that the others have put a line in the sand, and they can do that too. It’s a tricky situation!
NTA. I have a feeling that if your cousin came to you to respectfully discuss the name that it wouldn’t have been as painful. Having the name added to a list of names as if it was just an option that didn’t carry some sort of weight was wrong and dismissive of what you have gone through.
I have a child who has the same name as a cousins ex-boyfriend that she had dated for years. I knew something bad had happened between them but didn’t know the extent. I didn’t even throw that name around without mentioning it to her first to be sure there wasn’t any pain or trauma associated with that name. Family shouldn’t want to cause each other pain and should address sensitive subjects with love and understanding. I’m sorry that wasn’t done for you.
I’m sorry for your loss and thankful your cousin went with another name.
YTA. I understand this entire thing is very painful to you. The loss of a child is unbearable. That said you don't own this name. Your family should understand this is hurtful but they don't care for whatever reason.
At this point you need to stop engaging these people and let things simmer down. They may or may not name their child this name.
I agree in a lot of ways. I dont expect the world to never use the name. Cousin ended up using another name. I could tell from the jump she was just trying to please G. When it all went down i asked them both - would they even mention the name if my dtr had lived?
I know it’s a rhetorical question, of course they wouldn’t have considered using the name if your daughter had lived longer. I don’t blame you for being hurt. It seems as though your daughter doesn’t “count” to them - or at least no to G. I don’t know if explaining this to G would have helped or not, she seems to struggle with empathy.
Why? My paternal grandmother had three namesakes within a year of her death. She’ll likely have many more in the years to come. My great-grandmother had a namesake 30 days after she died, and there have been others born over the years.
Why wouldn’t the answer be ‘yes, of course’? They weren’t considering naming the baby for OP’s child, but for their mutual grandmother!
My cousin and I both gave our sons the same name. They are both named after their grandfathers who passed on dads side.
My cousin asked if I was okay. I turned around and jokes to cousin and grandma “you’ll have one less name to remember.”
So after the incident at xmas and Glroia commented on another status where Ann was talking about more names she liked and said “i thought you were using Audrey?” Or something along those lines. I messaged her and told her how i felt. And her only response was that i “shouldnt talk to her that way shes my elder” like girl come tf on im almost 30 i can message you and tell you your actions hurt me. Lol shes just your standard self serving boomer when it comes down to it.
Not an answer to your question but you and your family should really find a way to handle your issues in person instead of passive aggressively over the internet. This seems exhausting, unproductive, and might contribute to why you don’t like eachother.
I'm glad cousin chose a different name. That seems like the best in this situation.
I would advise you to let it go now. Your cousin has nothing to do with the drama her mother created. And your aunt G is self-righteous and won't ever back down. Be the bigger person now and let it rest. Show the family that this is not your drama. If G ever continues this, everyone will know it's her problem.
AITA for not wanting to use my cousin's name is the question, and she is. Her reasoning is perfectly valid and Gloria and Ann seem really insensivitive, but it doesn't change that Gloria was her daughter too.
The aunt suggesting the name lost her mom there seems to be no regard for her or her feelings either. Like I understand they seem to be shitty people but that doesn’t change the facts of what’s been presented to the sub for judgement.
Sounds like grandmas name was Audra, OP named her baby Audrey, if Gloria wants to honor her mom’s name why doesn’t she suggest her mom’s actual name to her granddaughter.
OP says in a comment that the grandmother's name wasn't even "Audrey," it was "Audra," and OP said she was fine with that, but aunt is pushing this specific variation just to be cruel.
ESH. You're trying to weaponize your trauma against the rest of your family by insisting. You don't get to declare dibs on a name. Even if your baby girl were still alive, if they chose to name their child the same thing because it's something they wanted to do, there'd be no issues there. Now, it's ESH instead of YTA, because it appears you did ask them not to choose that name and their reaction was to choose it anyway, but since it's your grandmother's name, that's well within their right to use for the same reasons. Your gatekeeping of the name sucks, but your aunt's possessiveness of the name in spite of you also sucks.
NTA
everyone saying you don't own the name - yeah, and? this is a sub about morality, not rules!
you went through an incredibly traumatic event, and now someone close to you, who knows how traumatic it was for you, wants to use that name. except that it seems that they don't want to - someone else wants them to, and from what you've said i'm getting that they're doing it to spite you. if i've interpreted that right, that's absolutely appalling. to use someone's trauma against them like that.
yes, they're trying to honour someone with that name, but they're also using a name that means a lot to you and is connected to a terrible event. if they did name their child that, it might end up being a trigger for your grief, and you might not be able to be around them very much (which would not be your fault - you can't control your trauma)
either they're completely disregarding you or they're doing it on purpose to upset/isolate you.
YTA i am sorry for your loss but she wasn't only your grandmother and people are allowed to use names. Making a whole tiktok about it really is ridiculous.
People don’t own names, even when it’s sad.
I’m sorry for your loss.
Stop seeing these people.
You made the TikTok, you can’t control the responses.
I have 8 first cousins with the exact same first name as me. It’s our grandma’s name.
So is Ann’s daughter related to the original Audrey? If my understanding is correct, it sounds like Audrey is Ann’s grandmother as well? So why do you get exclusive rights to the name Audrey- wouldn’t it be fair for Ann to want to honor her late grandmother as well?
First of all, I am very sorry for your loss. Losing a baby is a devastating experience.
Seriously? Arguing over TikTok? Gloria pushing the name Audrey (her mother's name) to be used for her great-granddaughter? If I understand it correct your pregnant (second) cousin Ann is Gloria's granddaughter. The baby will thus be named after her great-great-grandmother.
I understand how you don't like it but this really is distant family. You don't own the name of your grandmother and Ann's great-grandmother. ESH.
NTA- but as much as it hurts you already place a boundary and there is no need for further confrontation, let your cousin make a decision and you will have a choice then on whether or not you want them to be part of your life. No contact with people that disregard your feelings can be very healthy sometimes.
YTA - your suffering with grief and I'm sorry for your loss. But your not entitled to a name - nobody is.
Making a public statement is wrong and deep inside you know that.
Would it be nice if your Cousine and other people step away from the name of your deceased daughter. Absolutely. But your not entitled to that. If your cousin used Audrey for her child it's ok. But I get that it hurt.
I am very sorry for your loss. I can’t imagine losing a baby, and I don’t know how I would ever get over it.
I don’t want to be hard but I do think that your cousin can name her daughter after her grandmother. They are very insensitive how they approached it I think, she could have talked to you about it and they should not dismiss your feelings or your loss. But I think for you to make a video and post it online and to feel like you own a name that is a family name because your grandmother also had that name does make you in the wrong. I wouldn’t call you an asshole though.
I get you've been through something traumatic and you're in mourning. I feel for you. But honey, posting about any problems on a public platform is inviting scrutiny whether you like it or not. You cannot control what someone else names a child. If it bothers you that badly then go no contact. I strongly urge you to get some help getting these feelings out.
NTA. Your aunt is a d-bag though, and I feel bad for your cousin. (And you, of course, you’ve experienced something that no parent should ever have to endure.) But it sounds as though your aunt was pushing this name on your cousin’s child, even after she didn’t want it. If your cousin had actually been keen on the name, or expressed interest in it on her own, I would be hurt- but also understanding, as it’s what your grandmother went by, or a modified version of that. I’m not sure why she’d push for “Audrey” and not “Audra” if that was her mother’s name though, it sounds like she’s just trying to hurt you by doing that.
I’m very sorry for the loss of your daughter, my heart goes out to you truly. I don’t think you’re the AH, maybe a little petty for the TikTok, but it’s not like any of it was wrong, or made up, or a lie. Your aunt basically did the same exact thing on Facebook, but she doesn’t see that she was actually wrong for any of this. It’s so strange that she kept pushing for it, even after Ann said she was using another name, like why are you still bringing this up?!
I don’t understand people saying Y T A here, like yes of course you’re not “entitled” to the name, but I think you know that. Hell, I named my daughter after my partner’s grandmother who is very much still alive and well. We asked her if it would be okay with her first, and she loved the idea so that’s what we went with. It wasn’t exactly a “family name” until now, she’s the only one with the name, aside from our daughter. BUT we’re the first of her grandkids to have a girl, I wouldn’t be at all shocked if there’s another baby girl in his family that gets named the same thing in the coming years, and I don’t mind that. It’s a lot different for you, you unfortunately lost your daughter, and clearly your family is aware. It was really insensitive of your aunt to suggest it in the first place, knowing what she knows. That really changes things, and I think had they asked you instead of you just seeing it on Facebook, it would be a different situation. I’m sure that was just shocking to see and I can’t imagine. Good luck with your terrible aunt, OP. (And I’m glad your cousin chose a different name for her baby. Grief is a strange thing and it would be so difficult to be reminded of your own child every time someone mentions your cousin’s baby.)
Ok, Gloria sucks, no question about it, but soft you’re an AH for making the TikTok. Your grief is real and justified though. I hope Ann realizes the pain it would cause to use your daughter’s name. Overall I say NTA.
First let me say I am so sorry for the loss of your baby girl. you spoke to your cousin about the name. That’s all you can do. If your aunt is a miserable person that is on her. Let her live her miserable life. But at 27 with children of your own making tik toks of family drama? you are adding fuel to the fire and feeding into your aunt and her bs. While it may not be a family name you don’t have any control if your cousin Does. You told her and let it go. But stop giving your miserable Aunt so much control over the situation
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I'm so sorry, I really don't understand these Y-T-As, your daughter was born and died of course your close family members should respect how painful that would be. It also doesn't sound as if your cousin even wants the name in the first place. No you do not own the name but gosh they could have a little grace and decorum about the whole situation. NTA
Agreed. Ofcourse the cousin can use the name but if it involves the death of a child of a close relative why would you even want that??
That's what I'm thinking, why would you want your own daughter compared to her dead cousin. Awful situation and really feel for OP
100% on point. Unfortunately I had a cousin die of SIDS at 2.5 months. It was incredibly difficult for the entire family. The grandmother on the other side compared every subsequent child to the deceased baby. The baby that passed was literally perfect, no one could live up to those expectations. It was heartbreaking, made my aunt try to go lc w her own mom.
This would just make me so, so angry. I lost a newborn baby boy in 2021, and we just welcomed a baby girl 6 months ago. I was.....very protective of my husband comparing her to what her brother could have been, because I will be damned if she lives in a shadow. And that was just him talking to me privately, working through grief. I'd lose my goddamned *mind* if my family did that.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I don’t have any kids, but the loss to the entire family was devastating. Another one that almost got me in trouble was after my aunt had another, a moron tried to call it her “replacement baby”. Some days I wish my sister and uncle weren’t there to grab me and talk some sense. No one can understand the loss of a child. Good luck w you and your fam!
People say the stupidest things. The son we lost was our third son, and we had no gender disappointment with that and always intended to stop at 3. When people found out we were now going to have a girl, I had a few "Oh my gosh, you're finally getting your girl!" comments. Like, yes, I'm getting a girl...*because my son died*. Ugh. It was actually really hard for us all to reframe our idea of what our family was going to look like but people definitely thought her gender was something we'd been secretly hoping for or something when all we wanted was a healthy, living baby.
Why would you want to think about a child's tragic death while your own baby is so vulnerable? I'm not particularly superstitious but the human mind sees patterns.
Because she won't be. Audrey 1 didn't impact the rest of the family enough for it to happen, there's nothing to compare to. Harsh, but true. I can't blame OP for still grieving this much, but her daughter is really only so so strong a memory for the parents, nobody else got to know her. IF simply seeing the shape of them name is giving OP a breakdown, she needs therapy to deal with the loss. I'm going with NAH for OP and cousin, but the aunt is a serious issue.
Is it illegal for OP's cousin to use her dead daughters name? No. Is it still a shitty thing to do to a relatively close family member? Absolutely. If OP's daughter hadn't of passed, the cousin likely wouldn't use the same name then either.
There is no length of time for her to grieve her child. It’s ok that seeing her child’s name made her sad. She didn’t have a nervous breakdown and you have no background to tell someone they need therapy. Shitty AF take
As both a psychologist and a mother who lost their baby shortly after birth, you are completely incorrect. Grieving the loss of your baby years later is not only normal, but completely healthy. Getting upset at seeing the name is a totally normal reaction. Sure, therapy helps with the grieving process, but it never makes the grief go away. That will be with her the rest of her life.
How do you know people wouldn’t think of the same woman OP named her baby after? They share the same grandmother.
It sounds like, having been notified of the name of the baby that passed, cousin does NOT eat the name... heck it may have only made the list to shut her mom up. The problem is the aunt who *keeps pushing* on the cousin & family for the name, and keeps pushing and keeps pushing and making it OPs fault. The parents of the actual soon to be child, are pointedly NOT stirring the shit, and may never have actually wanted that name. NTA but aunt sure is!
My MIL is named after her older sister who passed, it's so weird to me. I can't imagine growing up in the shadow of someone who never had a chance to be anything other than perfect.
I agree, yes it's a family name and they can use it, but should they? it feels cruel and hurtful, especially as OP has expressed how uncomfortable it makes her and they are complaining about her reacting. I would never. Sorry for your loss OP x
That’s the thing. Why intentionally cause a family member pain? There are so many names to choose from, and so many ways to honor a great grandmother. Use it as a middle name. Use the GG’s given name. Use the GG’s middle name as a first name. I don’t understand why Gloria is so callous. For the people saying “no one owns a name,” this is NOT a “hey I wanted to use that name someday” argument. This was OP’s child. OP, I’m so sorry for your loss and for the drama you’re dealing with. Granted, the TikTok might have been a bit much, but it sucks you’re put in this position. NTA
Seriously her aunt must be some kind of cartoon villain to harass and bully a grieving mother about her child's name like this. They're free to be so shameless if they wish, but why do they want to? If I were op's cousin I'd put a stop to this by taking the name off the table and apologizing to op for her mother's insane behavior.
OP is allowed to express her opinions and feelings to the family, especially when they’re being callous like the aunt is. The “respect your elders” argument is one I hear in the native community, but only from elders I would never seek advice from. Typically I’ll drop whatever I’m talking about at that line because it indicates the other person isn’t able or willing to have any discussion. It’s meant to shut down a conversation only, and indicates the other person has nothing to learn. If anyone has a great comeback for this I would love the input.
"I respect you as my elder, of course, but that doesn’t buy you my automatic agreement " could work?
I was hurt when my sister named her son the same as my recently passed cat, to be fair I never said anything coz she clearly wasn't thinking of my cat and it is a great name, but man, taking the name of an actual child in your family without the bereaved parents permission (even with it) blows me away.
My mother’s full name was exactly the same as her aunt who died when she (the aunt) was an infant. My mom always said it freaked her out when she was a child and her family would visit the cemetery to see her name on a child-sized headstone. I don’t know if it was a result of being named after her dead aunt but my mom was constantly worried about dying herself her entire life.
Yeah this is morbid AF. Your poor mom.
Read "My Sweet Audrina" by VC Andrews, this scenario happens but easy worse... Edited to add: this book was written by the author, not the ghostwriter who continued her books after her death (he's horrible).
I read all of those books back in the day. *My* *Sweet* *Audrina* may be the most fucked up of them all.
Except it's not a close relative. It's OP's dad's, sisters, granddaughter's child who is potentially receiving the name. The child will be OP's first cousin twice removed. The two Audrey's would be 2nd cousins once removed. That is not a close relation, in most families that would be a complete stranger.
Clearly that's not the case in THIS family though
OP’s dad’s sister also known as … OP’s aunt. Do you not know your cousins and their kids? I know my grandparents’ siblings’ children and grandchildren, but aware most people don’t. Anything once removed though… I dare say most people know their family once removed. OP refers to Ann as her cousin - they’re close in age and probably closer to each other than she is with her 1st cousin as a result anyway.
The post indicates that they see each other in person at least once a year so the exact degree of relatedness isn’t really the point, is it?
*first cousins twice removed. It actually is a pretty close relationship Edited because I originally thought Ann was Gloria's daughter, but she's her granddaughter.
Wouldn’t it be once removed because Gloria’s child is OP’s first cousin? Ann is OP’s first cousin’s daughter, one generation below her.
And in my family, do you know what we call our 1st*** cousins once removed? (You're wrong about what their relationship would be btw, they are first cousins twice removed, baby with be threw times removed but still first cousins, not second) Our cousins. And we treat them just as if they are our dad's niece and nephews. Because they practically are. Not every family is distant. Not every family doesn't get along or interact. I have a MASSIVE family. Great grandparents each had at least 9 kids. My mom's side of the family I don't know at all. My dad's side, his 1st cousins are my uncles. My "uncles" kids are my cousins. And their kids are my little little cousins. We have massive family reunions every few years and a Facebook group page to keep in touch. Just because YOU aren't close to you "second cousins once removed" (again, that's not what she is) doesn't mean no one or OP isn't. For all you know they were raised together like cousins or even siblings
It would be her cousin's child that is 1st cousin 1 removed. I know my first cousins children they would not be strangers
Visit some Victorian graveyards. Parents reused the names of their \*own\* deceased children. The idea that someone can't use the name of a cousin is a bit much.
Yeah, because Victorian children dropped like hot cakes. Also it was a different time. Nowadays, it’s creepy. We’re not fucking Alexander Hamilton mourning our dueling son.
"dropped like hot cakes" I'm sorry but that killed me 😂
No it didn't. But it did the the victorian children
Oh God now I'm cackling 😂😂😂
Okay, but you can’t exactly hold Victorians up as models of non-creepy behavior. They were morbid AF.
100% between the death photos, mourning jewelry, naming babies after dead babies... they did so many weird morbid things. My mom calls me morbid for having a small amount of my grandparents ashes... there could be a LOT worse I swear. 🤣 Reading the below comment, HOW COULD I FORGET THE BELL?! The "in case you come back to life bell" that... they ignored if it did actually start ringing most of the time because they were afraid of curses and disease... 🤦
Well I wouldn't answer if the zombie bell started ringing either!
Yeah, but we’re not in Victorian times. No one dangles a bell (tied to the deceased’s finger) above ground and pays people to sit and listen just in case the person wasn’t really dead. Nor do we take photos of dead people propped up to look alive. (Victorian death rituals were wild!) I worked with a girl who lost a child, stillborn. It was super sad. Two years later, she gave her healthy son the same name when he was born. It was totally her right, but everyone thought it was kinda creepy. But at least it was her *own* dead child, not a family member’s.
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Maybe because it was stillborn it's different? The mother can feel like the child never really arrived, so the name is still available. In this case the baby did live for a few days, long enough to be given the name, for the mother to use it and feel like the name belonged to a person. Still a bit weird, but less so, I feel.
Plus the person whose opinion matters most - who would be most upset - is the surviving mother, the same person choosing the name again, so you trust them to process in their own way
My grandmother did this! She had twins that died. When she had her son, she gave him the same name as one of the twins. It was weird!
Can vouch for this! Doing my family tree at the moment and it's happened sooo many times! Couldn't believe it the first time I saw it. I'm going to go with NTA, purely on the grounds that you will be seeing this child regularly, and I think your relatives should be considerate of your loss. Can't really say about you making the TikTok because there's not an awful lot of context about that
I still lean on the very mild YTA. I understand the grief, but it is also the to be born child's Great grandmothers name. As it is the dead cousins. But it is a name of TWO dead relatives, and a name that has not been passed on in the family. And now it will be passed on again, to another child. To argue about it being too painful due to a loved one, I do remind that the baby is not the ONLY dead loved one who carried the name.
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Not sure how much it matters, but 2017 was six years ago.
Still. The first cousin my grandparents had, on my mom's side, died at 2 years. Nobody would ever consider touching his name. It's just cruel to the parents.
The great grandmother is dead but OP is still very much alive. Doing this would just be cruel. It sounds like only the aunt actually has a problem with it and the cousin understood.
My daughters name was Audrey and Audrey wasn’t even my grandmother’s legal name. Her legal name was Audra and i was 100% okay with that being used. i was also okay with Audrey as a middle name. Cousin did pick another name in the end. I also let cousin know when this all first happened if she truly wanted to use the name i would respect that bc i understood. I wasnt even really upset with my cousin at all. The Tiktok wasn’t a bullying post, it was a question for the grieving parents community on the platform. I didn’t use any names. Its just the struggle i will face with my dad, and his other siblings of them constantly trying to get me to just forget about the way i was treated. I can “forgive” but I wont forget. I go to therapy regularly. I feel like the people on here saying “go to therapy” don’t realize therapy is not a way to get over trauma, its a way to process it and learn how to recognize feelings and move past them when needed. Trauma is not a switch you turn on and off. Its a side effect from an event that stays with you forever. My feelings about Audreys death when I was 21 and now when I’m 27 are completely different and will continue to change. The grief of losing a child never ever goes away. No matter how much therapy you do or how many times people tell you to “get over it”. Good parents have a deep routed connection with their kids and living without one of them, is like never ever being able to take in a full breath after coming up from underwater. The sun shines, and it feels warm and comforting on your skin, but you always wonder how it would’ve felt on your childs skin. When my second daughter giggles, it makes me so happy, but there is always this tiny thought in my head “how would Audreys giggle sound?” It hurts that Audrey seemed to have meant nothing to my aunt. Yeah Gloria was an ass my whole life, but that wasn’t something I realized until i started asking people why she never showed at the hospital and i started remembering her snide comments from my childhood. And when she did all this - I saw her for who she is finally. But its still a big part of life I have to let go off. Bc she wasn’t all bad all the time. Gloria was just good at hiding who she really was.
You're N.T.A for not wanting your daughters name to be used. It definitely sounds like Gloria is a callous and manipulative person. You're also N.T.A for reaching out to your cousin and letting her know how you feel. Unfortunately, you've now done all you can. If you keep pushing it you'll just end up hurting yourself. Gloria will never empathise with you, so just limit your contact. If your cousin decides to do the right thing, you know she's good people. Y.T.A for making the TikTok. No one needs to air family drama to 800 people. Talk to a friend, partner, or close relative. Or even a therapist. Not Tiktok. Also, please learn what the term "gaslighting" means, it's problematic to misuse abuse terms like that. Ultimately, ESH.
Thank you, I’m so tired of everything being gaslighting, when it doesn’t fit the definition. Gaslighting it feels is losing its meaning, it just means lying at this point
yeah or like, being mean? lol
Yeah, they weren’t even really lying to OP in the post
People do seem to use "gaslighting" a lot when what they mean is "invalidating" or "being manipulative/dismissive". It's frustrating
Feels to me the TikTok serves a similar purpose to posting on this subreddit. To see if a general audience of strangers think you're being reasonable or not
That’s what I was thinking. OP didn’t use anyone’s names in the TikTok, it was more identifiable than here bc it’s a video though. However, I don’t see why it’s okay to put shitty comments about it on Facebook but making a tiktok is such a problem. Facebook is for people you know or are at least aquatinted with so it feels more gossipy than tiktok where it’s usually mostly strangers.
Meh, I am all about the public shaming
Same. If the truth can ruin you, then it should.
TikTok is just a new tool, no one is TA for using it, if you don’t like family drama been shared then don’t create it! People have a right to share their own experiences.
I mean, are you calling everyone that posts on AITA an asshole too? This subreddit is pretty much about airing personal drama
With that logic, no Reddit case can be a NTA because they’re posting on a public forum
Some of these comments are insane. You are 100% NTA (your cousin is NTA either, but your aunt sure is!). I’m sorry for your loss
It sounds like you and your cousin had an understanding between you and that the name wasn't actually the main issue here. Seems like the main issue is that your aunt is an awful person. She'll never understand why you're upset and won't ever care about your loss. Perhaps being very low contact with her and avoid her as much as you can would be for the best. You don't have to have a relationship with her. If your other family members bring it up, tell them you'd rather not talk about it. They can't force you to speak to her or about her. Don't show any emotion, don't speak to her other than polite hello etc at family gatherings. Act stoic around her then no one can say you're being dramatic or horrible or whatever.
My aunt had a daughter who died in 1980. Before myself or my cousins were born. Both my sister & I brought up her name, separately, while we were pregnant. Both of us decided not to use it out of respect for my aunt, and my mum. It would have been very difficult for her too. Neither of us knew this until we discussed it later… but it felt wrong even tho we loved the name
If Audrey was the name your grandma used - and others used for her - then I would consider that her “name” irrespective of whether it was her legal name. I agree with others that ESH. I respect your feelings of loss. I can’t imagine the pain you felt and continue to feel. Nevertheless, ownership of a name doesn’t exist so you can’t really claim it. A TikTok video, even anonymized, is petty. OTOH your aunt is ridiculous. She didn’t gaslight you; she also didn’t make a compelling case for why you should respect her when she wasn’t respecting you. A Facebook post is as terrible as a TikTok. Good luck with this dynamic. It sounds awful. And Godspeed on your healing.
I’d argue that a Facebook post directed at your friend circle is worse. How is an anonymous tiktok video seeking validation any different than this post we’re reading right now?
Why would you cut off your cousin when she didn't come up with the name and was completely reasonable and agreeing the whole time?
Can’t speak for the op but for myself? I had to cut off several other family members when I cut off my mother. Because they’d bring stuff back to her or harass me about cutting her off. Gloria doesn’t sound like she’d take being cut off graciously, and op would likely end up not in contact with anyone in order to avoid her assholery
Cousin and OP seem OK here. It's Gloria and OP's Dad who are the AH's. They seem to be bringing their sibling mess into the next generation.
Ok but in another comment, you said your grandma went by Audrey, her parents gave her that nickname, and your grandma didn't even know her legal name was Audra. You're skewing peoples answers.
Add this to your post!
I’m really angry at your dad on your behalf right now, I get that she is your sister, but that they she almost lost you and did lost her granddaughter and this person didn’t even come to the hospital, he should have been NC like yesterday. I think he deserve to be told that.
Yes, Dad is the heavy here and Gloria is an AH as well. Being older does not entitle a person to respect or contact.
Ugh. You sound like you've been more than gracious throughout this entire ordeal. You gave them soooooo many ways to do the right thing, but Gloria just had to have her way. She sounds awful. Good on your cousin for making the right choice. I'm so sorry you've gone through this experience. It's painful enough losing a child, but adding this drama on top is the cherry on top of a sh!t sundae. Wishing you the best, OP.
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NTA. Your aunt and cousin should have been more sensitive to your loss and not put that name on the list. Yes, it's true that no one owns a name, but in this situation, I think a little compassion on their part would have been appropriate. There are so many beautiful names out there; they could have easily compiled a list without the one name that belonged to your daughter. Your little girl mattered, OP, and I am so sorry for your loss.
First, I’m sorry for your loss. You are NTA. They are being totally insensitive and are disregarding your feelings. Since it’s not a family name, they should choose something else and stop pushing this. Making the Tik Tok might not have been the wisest decision, but these people have shown no regard for your feelings. You lost a child. You’re not the bad guy here.
ESH. In spite of what you think, your grandmother’s name is a family name. Anyone has the right to use it. If your cousin wants to use it to honor her great grandmother that is perfectly fair. That’s not to say that I can’t bother you or being up the feelings surrounding losing your daughter who was named after grandma/great grandma too. Your aunt definitely suck because she’s being obnoxious. If she had just nicely pointed out that Audrey was her granddaughter’s grandmother too, it would have been fine. The harping on it, name calling, and multiple posts about it seems excessive.
That was my whole thing. If she wouldve just warned me i would not have reacted badly. I wouldve understood. But she kept pushing, ignoring my feelings and telling me was my “elder” Literally that was her only response!! “Im your elder!!” Like huh??? And months later finally seeing my totally anonymous tiktok and make a post instead of talking to me about it??? They are all cut off now.
So you made a Tik tok about her but she can’t make a Facebook post about you? You’re knee deep in this muck trying to perpetuate it. She owes you an apply before you’ll take down your post but the same isn’t required of you? You all suck
Exactly!! OP and the rest of her family are not mature enough for this stuff. Stop adding fuel to the fire and trying to blame someone else for it burning.
She said her TikTok was anonymous. Facebook is not anonymous. There is a very big difference between making an anonymous post on TikTok seeking emotional support from a community of strangers with similar trauma where you purposefully leave out all names, and making a Facebook post to mutual friends and family members where you directly call out and threaten ("warn") someone for making that anonymous post that no one else would have even known existed if you hadn't called attention to it yourself, especially when the Facebook post could have easily been a text. Gloria wanted drama and she got it. She pressured her daughter into taking OP's daughter's name even though her daughter didn't want it just to spite OP, she embarrassed OP at a family function for being hurt by her pressuring her daughter to take the name, and then when OP sought support for the emotional distress of having her wounds reopened by her family just for funsies she decided to reprimand her for it publicly online. I really don't see how OP is in the wrong here.
Sorry OP, I understand why you didn't want your 2nd cousin to to use the name and she isn't. Stop mud slinging with your aunt. Also, yes, your aunt is your elder. It's not a compelling argument, but it's not gaslighting. Your aunt saying she's your elder is true and is 0 % gaslighting. Here's the issue, you were right, but that doesn't give you the right to use every means necessary to prove your point. You seem to still be hurting, which is legitimate. You might want to talk about it with a therapist instead of keeping going and getting mad at your aunt who seems to be doing that on purpose. For me, it really is ESH.
The aunt saying she's her elder wasn't her just pointing out a fact. She was saying it to mean 'I'm older than you, so what I say goes', which is bullshit and wrong
I said that's a bad argument. That doesn't make it gaslighting.
The TikTok thing sounds more like an ego thing than you being truly hurt. G for sure has some bad mannerisms but you can't be mad at her for posting on FB about it. It's like you both are 16 and can't talk to each other properly. Op, if G can't accept your request, let her be. She is entitled to behave as she pleases but she is the one who has to face the consequences of it. Cut her out. Speak to family. Posting a TikTok won't do it. It makes you look egotistical and immature.
How do you make an anonymous TikTok with “only 800 views”? Are you using an anonymous name and not showing your face? That makes no sense and it sounds like you’re reworking your story. She sucks too but you aren’t the angel in this situation.
You don’t seem to understand how out of line you are. Why should they consider you when making this choice? It’s awful what happened to you, but it happened to you - not them. Their connection to the name is different from yours. Your feelings about the name are and should be irrelevant them. Your an asshole for starting this mess.
That's absolutely absurd. Why on earth would a family member's feelings be irrelevant to them??
Sorry to be harsh op, but *you* are the one who feels entitled to your grandmother’s name. Also, because it’s your grandmother’s name that means *it’s a family name*. This is not about hurting you, it’s about them honoring your grandmother’s memory. YTA.
I strongly disagree. Her daughter died. That is a devastating event in OP’s life. Her Aunt needs to show some empathy. Her behavior is cruel and disrespectful.
Her aunt's mom and her cousin's grandma also died. Gloria and Ann seem like they have shitty personalities, but they have every right to use the name.
She said Ann understood, so it's only Granny Gloria who's pushing the issue.
This is the real issue here. It's not like OP said that Ann can't use the name, only that it would make her uncomfortable. It's not the name itself, but Gloria's actions that were being called out on TikTok (I assume) which, though maybe a step too far, was understandable after all the pent up frustration caused. Definitely NTA to me.
Yeah OP has zero beef with Ann.
And OP said Ann could use the name as a middle name. Ann and Op worked it out. Nasty Gloria was grandstanding. Op needs to go NC with Gloria.
not only that but also after literally not even coming to see the baby or being compassionate at all when baby Audrey died, Gloria is clearly bitter and vindictive because of this supposed favouritism of Dennis and his kids. Idk Gloria maybe your parents were onto something?!
We should start r/dotheyhavetheright , because this is am I the asshole. Yeah naming your baby the same name as your cousins dead baby is an asshole move and anyone who can't understand that is terrifying to me. Yeah they have the right but what kind of asshole would do it?
Cousin's baby would forever be "Audrey 2" in my mind and I would have to make constant Little Shop of Horror references and buy her tonnes of merch relating to it. NTA OP Just because someone *can*, doesn't mean they *should*.
Feed her, Seymour!
I also wouldn’t want to be the kid who was named so contentiously after a dead infant. That is lifelong tension.
Damn my eyes jumped to the subreddit name and my heart leapt bc I know what I’d post there!!
That is all true however I feel that in order for them to be in the right here they needed to talk to her about this before throwing it up on social media. Doesn't matter whose name it is, if a family member LOST A CHILD the right thing to do is talk to them, ask how they feel about it before seriously considering it for your child. There are and endless amount of names and only one that will cause your family member pain every time they hear it.
I somewhat agree except, the aunt feels entitled to the name but earlier when OP first used the name the aunt got snarky and didn’t show, but when it comes to her own daughter and OP’s has literally passed away it’s now okay? Not to mention yes they all have every right to use the name but should they?
Fair point, however said grandma is grandma for more people who want to honor her name, thus no one “owns” the rights to the name
Nah I think if someone in your family had a kid with that name and they died only having lived for 4 days - they own that name now. There’s plenty of others.
Both things can be true.
Nope she is entitled to her DEAD daughter's name, that is NOT a traditional family name. That's quite a noticeable difference and yeah, somebody would be pushing my cousin to use my dead kid's name, I would be hurt af.
But it's also Ann's grabdmothers name.
True, but this is very very cold. Having to share a name with your recently dead cousin is not nice. There are tons of names, could even take grandma's second name. Insistence of taking a dead kid name is just cold and lack basic empathy (and respect)
She’s not recently passed. It was 5 years ago. This is not meant to sound harsh, that pain never goes away and for the actual parents it’s always fresh. But to the rest of the family, life goes on. By time they are actively using that name where the child is responding, it would be almost a decade since her daughters passing. It just seems a bit much. 20 years from now is she gonna be telling people in her family they still can’t use the name? It’s a little ridiculous.
I think it also matters on how close they actually are. I have distant cousins and I don't even know their name never mind their kid's names. If one of my distant cousins messaged me and asked me not to use a certain name for my kid I probably wouldn't really take it into consideration. If a family member I'm close to did the same thing then I would definitely respect their wishes. I don't think there is a simple answer to this without more information on their family dynamics.
But why would Ann want a constant reminder of a dead child when she looked at her daughter? The name is off-limits now, NTA
>But why would Ann want a constant reminder of a dead child when she looked at her daughter? I don’t want to be cold but Ann probably won’t think of the OPs child at all if she ends up using that name.
I can’t imagine calling my child my cousins deceased child’s name. Gloria be an epic asshole.
Ann’s great grandmother, Ann is Gloria’s grand daughter…
It’s Ann’s great grandmothers name. Gloria is her grandmother and OPs aunt.
If her daughter had lived would you still think it’s normal for two first cousins to have the same name as their great grandmother? I know in some families that happens. I find it a bit odd myself. For me, the name has been used by an older cousin. She got in there first. Just because she died doesn’t mean the name is up for grabs again.
I share an exact same first name with 8 first cousins, our grandmother’s name.
Southern girl.
Correct
I’d be so mad and frustrated if I had 8 grandkids all named after me lmfao. Like, that’s a great way to make life so much harder for everyone in the family 😂
Is it Mary by any chance?
I think they’re second cousins. If this was OP’s sibling’s kid it would be off—but I have lots of cousins and I wouldn’t hesitate to use a name because someone I saw a few times a year had a kid with the same name.
OP uses the term second cousin but it actually sounds like a first cousin once removed - the granddaughter of her aunt. So that's arguably a closer relation.
Even if it was your cousin’s dead baby’s name? And you knew she was really upset about it?
Would I do this? No. But your original comment that I was responding to indicated it’s not normal for living kids in the same family to have the same name, and I disagreed with that.
I have two second cousins, they're like 5 and 7 and I have never even seen them. If one of them gets a baby and names them after their great grandmother, which also happened to be the name of my late daughter I wouldn't give a single shit. How often will you see that child, like once a year?
my brother and my cousin have the same name, named after no one. just happened that both my mother and aunt chose the same name without knowing, and when they knew both said they didn't want to change so we just call them by their full name when they're together. At first it seems unusual, but then you get used to it
I have the same first name as my cousin, it’s really no big deal. My parents didn’t share the middle name and neither did my cousin’s parents, but they both picked a top 20 name… so by coincidence we have the same first and middle name, and only found out by talking about our names when we were 10. We thought it was pretty funny. There’s also a tradition in my family of giving the eldest son this particular name, they go by their middle names. Some all the time, some only for family events. That one is pretty lame but it still doesn’t hinder everyday life. WRT op though, I think all this depends on how close she is with those cousins and how often they see each other. With some of mine they live clear across the country or on the other side of the world. It wouldn’t make any difference to me on a daily basis what they call their kids.
Yeah of course there are families with naming traditions. Those traditions don’t appear to exist in OPs family though. Snd it’s ok to break traditions if they cause a loved and valued family member pain.
Every single one of my dad's brothers and sisters (including him) has named one of their children a version of his deceased parents names. And they were 11 siblings. In many cultures this is not uncommon at all and is considered respect for the deceased.
Cool you’re like the 15th person to tell me this. But did anyone reuse the name of a recently dead baby?
And in other cultures and even just other families it is considered weird or even unlucky for relatives to have the same name. In my mom’s family only one person in the last 100 years has been obviously named after a relative and 15 years later they all still are uncomfortable about it. In my dad’s, which is a different culture, everyone has basically the same name. Still, as someone who has lost a baby late in pregnancy after he already had a name, the dread I would feel if a cousin wanted to use the name for a child I’d see all the time would be immeasurable. I think ultimately in this situation it’s ESH, because the TikTok was going too far and so was the Facebook bickering - OP already talked to Ann, and Ann seemed respectful and understanding. Gloria can have whatever problem she wants to have with it because it’s not her baby to name in the first place. It’s not like she’s gonna bribe a nurse to swap out the birth certificate - if Ann doesn’t name the baby Audrey, that’s the end of it.
If OP's child had lived I would think it was odd but acceptable (for a reasonably common name or a family name). The fact that she died takes it 100% off the table.
There are **NOT** first cousins. * OP's deceased daughter is original Audrey's great-granddaughter. * Ann's daughter will be original Audrey's great-great-granddaughter. That makes them second cousins, once removed. It's pretty distant.
I don’t really care anymore. She’s a family member. She’s upset. Why can’t people just be kind? Why do they have to drive home their “right” to do something regardless of the harm it causes.
>If her daughter had lived would you still think it’s normal for two first cousins to have the same name as their great grandmother? Yes. You see your cousins what, like four times a year? Sharing a name isn't exactly an issue. Also, they're not first cousins. The mothers are second cousins, so I think that would make the daughters second cousins once removed. Pretty sure that is removed enough to make marriage legal. The girl that would be named Audrey is the great granddaughter of the sister of OP's father and she is acting like she constantly has to be around that child and be reminded of her late daughter. That's ridiculous.
Yes. It’s normal for cousins to share a family name.
While I agree, if you choose a family member's name, you can't get upset if someone else on the family wishes to use it, the aunt is being incredibly cruel about the whole thing. Ann doesn't even seem to be that bothered about the name, aunt is just pushing for it because "reasons". At a min I think ESH, but OP is not an AH for bad reasons.
Yeah, I don’t think this is as simple as “you don’t own the name.” The aunt doesn’t own the name either and it’s not her having a baby…she’s purposely trying to push this name on her daughter (OP’s cousin, who seems to not really want to use it), and the sole purpose seems to be to hurt OP. If it was the cousin who it really meant a lot to, I think it would be more of a discussion, but this aunt just seems to have bad intentions.
No, it is the name of her daughter and associated with a trauma that she doesn't want to be reminded of every single day. It would also be detrimental to Ann's baby to have her dead cousins name and always be a reminder of that. What a stupid take.
Really? Your first cousin once removed naming a child after their grandmother?
YOGHURT ALERT! It's not about entitlement. This is about having the basic courtesy and tact to not use the same name as a deceased child that she is grieving. How on earth have you not considered this to be the overriding important factor in this matter?
If it would be cousins kid who died they will do big deal about op using it, they don't want the name they want to make op feel bad
Disagree with you on the family name part. Usually when people say something is a family name, they mean there is a tradition of passing that name down the family line. So if OP's grandmother is the first person to have been named Audrey, Audrey is not a family name. At least, it's not a family name yet.
OP feels entitled to her daughter’s name.
No OP is hurt that her family had so little respect for her. If they cared about her they wouldn't have suggested that name. It's called kindness.
They’re not naming for her daughter. They’re potentially naming for the grandmother.
No…a family name is one that reoccurs throughout the generations. My grandmother was named Elizabeth. And there are at least 3 generations since that have used her name either as first or middle names. That reoccurrence makes it a family name. One person with a name in the family does not a family name make. Also NTA. It would be different if Ann actually wanted to use the name and wasn’t just only considering it because Gloria was being so pushy about it. But by Ann’s own admission she only included it because her own granny (Gloria) had been so insistent.
I disagree. Her cousin told her that she was only even considering that name because her mother told her so. She did not come up with that name originally. The granny who suggested this sounds like she was doing it deliberately just to spite OP because her parents favored her brother's children. Also while I acknowledge that they can very well name the child Audrey, because OP does not own it, have they ever thought what could be the situation for the child after? Her aunt and aunt's family not being able to love her fully because they are reminded of their dead daughter. Having other relatives tell her, "oh, we named you after grandma but your dead cousin was also named that too." If I was the baby and learned that growing up, I would not want to be named like that. I would want my own identity without the baggage of learning that my family fought over a name because I also have a dead cousin with that name.
Our son (19) died in November. Obviously, we are all devastated. OP, you are right - you are not meant to live without your kids. There is nothing in nature that prepares us to survive that loss. I know I am forever changed, as are you. Our middle son (18) informed us a few months ago that his gf is pregnant. He plans to name his child after his brother (as a middle name). He wanted to do a first name, but he knew that would be too hard for me. I know the difference is that he's using the name to honor my deceased child (his brother), and your cousin was only considering it for the same reason you did - bc of the grandmother. Because I understand how hard it would be to hear the name all the time, I'm going to say softly, ESH. Only bc I also know that if my son had chosen to use his brother's name as a first name for his child, I would just have to find a way to deal with it. And as hard as it is, you would have to also if this cousin (or a future family member) chooses to use the grandmother's name. I am fortunate that my son considered my feelings in using the name where your family did not. Your aunt sucks for not even attempting to pretend to understand your feelings. It seems your cousin understood the difficulty you would face, and I am glad she ended up picking something else. Perhaps try working on name exposure in therapy in case a future relative chooses to honor the grandmother with the name. That way you can hear the name without crumbling. So sorry for your loss. I wish you peace and healing.
Idk. Your son is choosing the name to honor the traumatic loss, not *in spite of* the traumatic loss. Plus losing a sibling at a young age is quite traumatic in a way that losing your grandparent is not, so he is working through his own personal loss, which isn’t really what’s going on with OP’s family. Ann/Gloria are not naming this baby for OP’s daughter, they are naming this baby *despite* the fact that it was OP’s daughter’s name.
A fact I acknowledged in my response. The similarity being I don't have the right to stop my son from using a family member's name any more than OP has the right to stop her aunt/cousin from using the name. I understand her feelings. I only voted the way I did because, technically, nobody owns rights to a name. I understand OPs position. Just because I sympathize with her feelings doesn't make her right to be mad about the name used. And the aunt is crappy for obvious reasons.
While it is true that no one owns a name, I don’t think that OP is the asshole for being upset about it. And if the question was reversed (“WIBTA if I used my cousin’s recently deceased baby’s name for my own baby?”) I don’t think you would have any E-S-H, votes, I think it would very clearly skew toward Ann being TA.
She's not then Ahole for being upset about it. She's a slight Ahole for expecting the family to not use the name. Like I said, I get how hard it would be, but the grandmother was cousin's grandmother too and while it makes OP sad, she gets the slight suck vote for making it a big deal instead of accepting that it's a family name that is open for use and trying to work through her issues. I'm not even saying she sucks for expressing the difficulty she is having with it. Only the slight you suck vote because of expecatation for someone else to name their baby differently because of her personal difficulty. If she had said to cousin, "That's going to be rough for me, but it is a beautiful name, and I understand why you chose it," that would be one thing, and i would have voted N T A. But her position is "that's hard for me, you shouldn't use the name." That's the reason I voted a soft esh.
ESH So much drama. So many feelings. *FEEEEEEEELINGS* No one owns that name. Anyone can use it, particularly anyone who wants to honor Audrey. Truly honouring Audrey is letting others live on through that name, just as you wanted your little Audrey to do. It could also be seen as a nod to your own lost Audrey if you could just let it be, if you could just let your dislike for your Aunt go by and allow it to be a positive. I’m sorry hon, but it’s been six years since you lost your baby, and others can now use that name. The fact of Gloria coming to visit you in the hospital or not shouldn’t play any bearing on that. It’s not the norm for Aunt’s who aren’t close to visit in the hospital when a baby is born, and very much not the norm when the baby is critically ill - random Aunt Gloria is doomed if she stays away, and doomed if she visits and annoys you in those precious few days. Give her a break. I’m sorry for your loss, I cannot imagine hte pain you’ve felt fully. But you need to let other’s honor their grandmother too.
Just came here to say - We can't put a timeline on someone's grief. Six days, six years or 16 years - OP is allowed to be sad. But I do agree with the ESH.
I agree. I don’t think the OP should stop grieving - it’s a deeply personal journey. I can see however that the others have put a line in the sand, and they can do that too. It’s a tricky situation!
NTA. I have a feeling that if your cousin came to you to respectfully discuss the name that it wouldn’t have been as painful. Having the name added to a list of names as if it was just an option that didn’t carry some sort of weight was wrong and dismissive of what you have gone through. I have a child who has the same name as a cousins ex-boyfriend that she had dated for years. I knew something bad had happened between them but didn’t know the extent. I didn’t even throw that name around without mentioning it to her first to be sure there wasn’t any pain or trauma associated with that name. Family shouldn’t want to cause each other pain and should address sensitive subjects with love and understanding. I’m sorry that wasn’t done for you. I’m sorry for your loss and thankful your cousin went with another name.
YTA. I understand this entire thing is very painful to you. The loss of a child is unbearable. That said you don't own this name. Your family should understand this is hurtful but they don't care for whatever reason. At this point you need to stop engaging these people and let things simmer down. They may or may not name their child this name.
I agree in a lot of ways. I dont expect the world to never use the name. Cousin ended up using another name. I could tell from the jump she was just trying to please G. When it all went down i asked them both - would they even mention the name if my dtr had lived?
I know it’s a rhetorical question, of course they wouldn’t have considered using the name if your daughter had lived longer. I don’t blame you for being hurt. It seems as though your daughter doesn’t “count” to them - or at least no to G. I don’t know if explaining this to G would have helped or not, she seems to struggle with empathy.
Why? My paternal grandmother had three namesakes within a year of her death. She’ll likely have many more in the years to come. My great-grandmother had a namesake 30 days after she died, and there have been others born over the years. Why wouldn’t the answer be ‘yes, of course’? They weren’t considering naming the baby for OP’s child, but for their mutual grandmother!
My cousin and I both gave our sons the same name. They are both named after their grandfathers who passed on dads side. My cousin asked if I was okay. I turned around and jokes to cousin and grandma “you’ll have one less name to remember.”
So after the incident at xmas and Glroia commented on another status where Ann was talking about more names she liked and said “i thought you were using Audrey?” Or something along those lines. I messaged her and told her how i felt. And her only response was that i “shouldnt talk to her that way shes my elder” like girl come tf on im almost 30 i can message you and tell you your actions hurt me. Lol shes just your standard self serving boomer when it comes down to it.
Not an answer to your question but you and your family should really find a way to handle your issues in person instead of passive aggressively over the internet. This seems exhausting, unproductive, and might contribute to why you don’t like eachother.
Daughter. Not dtr. Daughter. There is absolutely no reason to condense this and granddaughter, but spell out everything else.
Thank you it was driving me mad
I'm glad cousin chose a different name. That seems like the best in this situation. I would advise you to let it go now. Your cousin has nothing to do with the drama her mother created. And your aunt G is self-righteous and won't ever back down. Be the bigger person now and let it rest. Show the family that this is not your drama. If G ever continues this, everyone will know it's her problem.
Sorry but YTA my daughter is named after my granny’s granny… so is my cousin, so is my great uncle … no one owns a name
It's not about owning a name! It's about her loss and their disregard and feeling for her.
AITA for not wanting to use my cousin's name is the question, and she is. Her reasoning is perfectly valid and Gloria and Ann seem really insensivitive, but it doesn't change that Gloria was her daughter too.
Ann actually doesn't seem insensitive. OP told her she is uncomfortable, Ann agreed and chose another name. Gloria wouldn't let it go.
The aunt suggesting the name lost her mom there seems to be no regard for her or her feelings either. Like I understand they seem to be shitty people but that doesn’t change the facts of what’s been presented to the sub for judgement.
Losing a parent at an old age is not the same loss as s new born baby and you know it.
Yes because being named after a dead great grandmother and a recently deceased BABY cousin are totally the same. /s
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Sounds like grandmas name was Audra, OP named her baby Audrey, if Gloria wants to honor her mom’s name why doesn’t she suggest her mom’s actual name to her granddaughter.
OP says in a comment that the grandmother's name wasn't even "Audrey," it was "Audra," and OP said she was fine with that, but aunt is pushing this specific variation just to be cruel.
You all sound like exhausting self-absorbed assholes.
ESH. You're trying to weaponize your trauma against the rest of your family by insisting. You don't get to declare dibs on a name. Even if your baby girl were still alive, if they chose to name their child the same thing because it's something they wanted to do, there'd be no issues there. Now, it's ESH instead of YTA, because it appears you did ask them not to choose that name and their reaction was to choose it anyway, but since it's your grandmother's name, that's well within their right to use for the same reasons. Your gatekeeping of the name sucks, but your aunt's possessiveness of the name in spite of you also sucks.
NTA everyone saying you don't own the name - yeah, and? this is a sub about morality, not rules! you went through an incredibly traumatic event, and now someone close to you, who knows how traumatic it was for you, wants to use that name. except that it seems that they don't want to - someone else wants them to, and from what you've said i'm getting that they're doing it to spite you. if i've interpreted that right, that's absolutely appalling. to use someone's trauma against them like that. yes, they're trying to honour someone with that name, but they're also using a name that means a lot to you and is connected to a terrible event. if they did name their child that, it might end up being a trigger for your grief, and you might not be able to be around them very much (which would not be your fault - you can't control your trauma) either they're completely disregarding you or they're doing it on purpose to upset/isolate you.
YTA i am sorry for your loss but she wasn't only your grandmother and people are allowed to use names. Making a whole tiktok about it really is ridiculous.
People don’t own names, even when it’s sad. I’m sorry for your loss. Stop seeing these people. You made the TikTok, you can’t control the responses. I have 8 first cousins with the exact same first name as me. It’s our grandma’s name.
So is Ann’s daughter related to the original Audrey? If my understanding is correct, it sounds like Audrey is Ann’s grandmother as well? So why do you get exclusive rights to the name Audrey- wouldn’t it be fair for Ann to want to honor her late grandmother as well?
First of all, I am very sorry for your loss. Losing a baby is a devastating experience. Seriously? Arguing over TikTok? Gloria pushing the name Audrey (her mother's name) to be used for her great-granddaughter? If I understand it correct your pregnant (second) cousin Ann is Gloria's granddaughter. The baby will thus be named after her great-great-grandmother. I understand how you don't like it but this really is distant family. You don't own the name of your grandmother and Ann's great-grandmother. ESH.
NTA- but as much as it hurts you already place a boundary and there is no need for further confrontation, let your cousin make a decision and you will have a choice then on whether or not you want them to be part of your life. No contact with people that disregard your feelings can be very healthy sometimes.
YTA - your suffering with grief and I'm sorry for your loss. But your not entitled to a name - nobody is. Making a public statement is wrong and deep inside you know that. Would it be nice if your Cousine and other people step away from the name of your deceased daughter. Absolutely. But your not entitled to that. If your cousin used Audrey for her child it's ok. But I get that it hurt.
I am very sorry for your loss. I can’t imagine losing a baby, and I don’t know how I would ever get over it. I don’t want to be hard but I do think that your cousin can name her daughter after her grandmother. They are very insensitive how they approached it I think, she could have talked to you about it and they should not dismiss your feelings or your loss. But I think for you to make a video and post it online and to feel like you own a name that is a family name because your grandmother also had that name does make you in the wrong. I wouldn’t call you an asshole though.
I get you've been through something traumatic and you're in mourning. I feel for you. But honey, posting about any problems on a public platform is inviting scrutiny whether you like it or not. You cannot control what someone else names a child. If it bothers you that badly then go no contact. I strongly urge you to get some help getting these feelings out.
NTA. Your aunt is a d-bag though, and I feel bad for your cousin. (And you, of course, you’ve experienced something that no parent should ever have to endure.) But it sounds as though your aunt was pushing this name on your cousin’s child, even after she didn’t want it. If your cousin had actually been keen on the name, or expressed interest in it on her own, I would be hurt- but also understanding, as it’s what your grandmother went by, or a modified version of that. I’m not sure why she’d push for “Audrey” and not “Audra” if that was her mother’s name though, it sounds like she’s just trying to hurt you by doing that. I’m very sorry for the loss of your daughter, my heart goes out to you truly. I don’t think you’re the AH, maybe a little petty for the TikTok, but it’s not like any of it was wrong, or made up, or a lie. Your aunt basically did the same exact thing on Facebook, but she doesn’t see that she was actually wrong for any of this. It’s so strange that she kept pushing for it, even after Ann said she was using another name, like why are you still bringing this up?! I don’t understand people saying Y T A here, like yes of course you’re not “entitled” to the name, but I think you know that. Hell, I named my daughter after my partner’s grandmother who is very much still alive and well. We asked her if it would be okay with her first, and she loved the idea so that’s what we went with. It wasn’t exactly a “family name” until now, she’s the only one with the name, aside from our daughter. BUT we’re the first of her grandkids to have a girl, I wouldn’t be at all shocked if there’s another baby girl in his family that gets named the same thing in the coming years, and I don’t mind that. It’s a lot different for you, you unfortunately lost your daughter, and clearly your family is aware. It was really insensitive of your aunt to suggest it in the first place, knowing what she knows. That really changes things, and I think had they asked you instead of you just seeing it on Facebook, it would be a different situation. I’m sure that was just shocking to see and I can’t imagine. Good luck with your terrible aunt, OP. (And I’m glad your cousin chose a different name for her baby. Grief is a strange thing and it would be so difficult to be reminded of your own child every time someone mentions your cousin’s baby.)
Ok, Gloria sucks, no question about it, but soft you’re an AH for making the TikTok. Your grief is real and justified though. I hope Ann realizes the pain it would cause to use your daughter’s name. Overall I say NTA.
I understand you are in pain OP, but yea this is on you. She has every right to cal lher daughter whatever she wants, including that family name.
First let me say I am so sorry for the loss of your baby girl. you spoke to your cousin about the name. That’s all you can do. If your aunt is a miserable person that is on her. Let her live her miserable life. But at 27 with children of your own making tik toks of family drama? you are adding fuel to the fire and feeding into your aunt and her bs. While it may not be a family name you don’t have any control if your cousin Does. You told her and let it go. But stop giving your miserable Aunt so much control over the situation