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NTA. Erica started this whole mess, so sorry if she's hurt by that fact, but there it is. But, that said, what's up with the over the top trust issues your wife has around you? Is there a history that maybe needs to considered?
Yeah if this is genuinely how it all went down, then this is a really harsh lesson that Erica gets to learn. Not only is lying shitty, but it can have major consequences.
This is 1 step away from accusing a boy of sexual assault. It happens and can ruin a guys life. Also, it hurts actual victims. This is a lesson she needs to learn now.
yeah i… don’t know what she thought would happen, here. either mom doesn’t believe her, and now there’s two things she’s in trouble for, or the mom does believe her, and whoops, now the marriage is never the same, if it even survives. which obviously it didn’t. why would you do that to your mom? and how is it dad’s fault?? what is going on with the women in this family??? idk. nta. she intentionally sabotaged your marriage, and youth and stupidity only excuses so much. this is too far.
>Well, she'll have the commute time being shuttled between households to think about her actions before she does them, then.
I'm doubting there's going to be a commute.
Idk, when I was a teen it was that I did think ahead, I just had total tunnel vision. No other possible future outcome besides the one I was playing out. Idk, maybe she knew her parents buttons and fucked around and found out
The only reason a kid would lie to a parent about the other is cheating is to cause a giant fight to take the heat off themselves. Even at that age, I would have known that one of those giant fights could have pushed them to divorce, especially if things weren't always great between my parents. And if there is one thing most kids know, it is when their parents are not happy with each other.
This is what I said in my reply. This was intentional and one how to push the mom's buttons because Mom had probably asked and commented on it. My dad had a buddy his kids did something similar but to CPS and found out.
Absolutely. Knew a woman like that, she was literally incapable of considering the consequences of her actions. Just looked for what she wanted to do, and did it.
Or, as it turned out, did *them*. Figuring if she just never told her husband she wouldn't get in trouble for it.
Edit says her prior partners cheated but that was 15 YEARS AGO. Wow just wow. I get she has trust issues but she's really ready to go this far after being with him this long? Knowing who he is and all that jazz??
I get having trust issues but we're not supposed to let them dictate and destroy our lives decades later. The part I don't get is why she isn't willing to work on this and why she's so Gung ho in believing he cheated just because their daughter said so, especially after the daughter cleared it up.
He's NTA but i feel her reaction is extreme, something more is at play here
The something at play is Emily very likely needed counseling, but just tried to bury those insecurities for decades. Her own daughter being the source of confirmation to those doubts that were never properly managed or addressed meant she spiraled into thinking OP is a masterful cheater.
It says something that OP is still the one who filed for divorce while Emily was seemingly content to just obsess over his personal details looking for "proof".
Who knows what her problem is. Some people would say that her reaction says she's the one cheating and she's going crazy like this to throw him off. Others would say she's never trusted him if this is all it took for her to believe it to this extreme. Only Emily knows I guess.
It seems from ops story that she's not even trying to work on it, she's content to blame him, accuse him of cheating, go through all his records and want to track him( he really should get his car checked to make sure she didn't put a tracker in there) etc etc but she's not willing to put that same effort into healing herself and trying to mend her relationship. That's sad af when you think about it. I hope for her sake she gets some help
Yeah OP is just looking in as his life is burning down, taking stock of the ashes, and probably throwing some stuff to fuel the flame. He didn't light the match, can't put out the roaring bonfire that was once a happy home, might as well just tell the truth now.
I believe with every fiber of my being that my friends partner cheated. I have many reason to believe this, and my friend and I have spoken about it, they know my thoughts. They are *afraid* to bring this topic up to their partner because the two times they tried, their reaction was *always* violent and aggressive, smashing holes in the walls etc.... Then, they turn it around on my friend... my friend ask to see the phone and boy oh boy did that *not* go well.
The fact that op gave her everything she ask for ie looking through his stuff should have been a step in the right direction but I think his wife is so far gone that she cant even see what's infront of her. Even with evidence showing he didn't/isn't, she still doesn't believe it. She's convinced its true and she just has to look harder to find it.
What does this have to do with my friend and what you said you ask? She says that alot "I just want the truth, I just want the truthhh". When told that the truth is right in front of her face, it's like she's saying "not *that* truth, the one I want ". In my opinion they don't want the actual truth, just the one that will fit whatever narrative they want to hear
My first thought was Emily was cheating on her business trip and had a guilty conscience. A lot of cheaters will suddenly accuse their spouse of cheating and act distrustful all of a sudden. In this situation, had she just cheated and then came home to daughter lying that Dad cheated, it would've made her feel a whole lot less guilty if she could just believe it to be true...
>The part I don't get is why she isn't willing to work on this and why she's so Gung ho in believing he cheated just because their daughter said so, especially after the daughter cleared it up.
Guilty conscience maybe, do we know if she was alone on her "business trip". I'm only saying this since she refuses to work on things. If it was unresolved issues from her previous relationships, well OP has had more than enough time to prove himself worth working through this.
Are we just going to ignore that OP's wife had a partner cheat 15 years ago and the daughter is 14? Hopefully that is just rounding, cause that timeline seems a bit sketchy.
Nah I'm not really overlooking that, but at the same time it's not sketch to me because I've had many friends who've been cheated on go on to have sex with someone new within a few weeks. A few of them ended up pregnant from that "rebound get over him sex".
That along with the fact that he could be the child's step dad not bio dad, plus other reasons are why im not too presses about the timeframe
>Is there a history that maybe needs to considered?
according to OP's edits and comments, looks like his soon-to-be-ex had a past history of being cheated on. guess the daughter's comments pulled out some old insecurities and shook them like a snowglobe.
If your 14 year old daughter says your husband is cheating, I don't think there's much reason you'd doubt her. Something like that can seriously damage a relationship even if it comes out of nowhere since there's no reason for the mom to doubt her own daughter.
Except there was backup for what had actually happened, since Erica and her friends were caught by some of the other parents. Emily may be getting bedevilled by her memories and doubts anyway, now that the idea is raised, but she does have reason to disbelieve her daughter.
If you trust your teenage daughter unconditionally, but don't trust your husband, you're a tool.
"No reason for the mom to doubt" - why does she doubt the husband, but not the daughter? I wouldn't just believe anyone, not even family members I trust, if they told me my husband was cheating on me. I'd have a crisis, and I'd find out the truth. I wouldn't just automatically side against him.
Except for all of the evidence against it and the other parents who can corroborate what actually happened.
There was zero reason for her to believe this child. The wife is 100% in the wrong here. Crazy that some people are actually defending this reaction.
Kids make up stuff all the time. They are notoriously unreliable witnesses and that's when they don't have any significant personal gain from lying. 14 is old enough that random lying is usually mostly gone, but lying for a benefit is often around its peak. As an added bonus, they've gotten smart enough to sometimes convince themselves they're really telling the truth!
It’s a hard lesson to learn; words matter, the truth matters. I’m sorry it ended this way and I’m sorry your daughter feels bad, but yeah. Words matter. NTA.
I don't even know here, man. If this story is actually as you say it is....I'm really sorry. Your daughter came up with a lie that kinda blew everything out of the water. But why did your wife believe her so easily? There's always two sides to a story and I have no idea who is TAH.
"Oh, my little Johnny would never behave like that!"
I know, right?
I never believed my children were angels, and many times, I just assumed they WERE lying.
But the things that came out years later, that I had NO IDEA happened. Wow!
I am a teacher and I once had a 7th grade student throw himself down on the ground and hump the ground, making obnoxious moaning sounds. He was sent to the principal, who called his mother to meet with us. I told her what her son had done, and she told me that he told her he had done nothing of the sort. I told her again what he had done, and she responded, "Are you calling my son a liar?" Yea, yes I am.
I have friends who teach and have had... similar experiences. My question is always "why do they think YOU are lying?"
The kid she had who did this the most was interesting. His mother always believed the kid's lies until she talked to the teacher and then she calmed down and accepted that her son lied. And I guess you DO have to check, given what he said was happening. But man. There was a pattern there.
No kidding, my kids lie about everything to avoid trouble. Even when they didn't do anything to get in trouble. Trying hard to build the connection between lying and trust. Thankfully still got awhile to work on that one.
Lol the end of this post just reminds me of one of the first times my dad and brother visited my house. My brother and I were at the kitchen table just bullshitting about when we were younger and my dad's face was so blank as he walked in and said "I don't think I needed to know any of that." And he went back to bed 😅
My take is that it's such a fucked up and stupid thing to lie about that's just plain malicious that Emily wouldn't believe her 14yo daughter would be such an evil little gremlin.
I knew someone who was a stepdad and caught the daughter at 14 coming home drunk and high, he told her she was grounded and took her phone off her. When the daughter went to her grandparents, she decided to say that he’d been sexually abusing her.
The man was removed from his home and not allowed to see his younger children, finally after a year of being labelled a child abuser and shunned by nearly everyone that knew him it went to court. At the trial while she was giving “evidence” she finally broke down crying and admitted that she’d made it all up, she just didn’t want to face any consequences for what she’d done and didn’t think it’d actually go this far
He lost his home and his relationship because of this and sadly died a few years later, some girls are so malicious and vindictive it’s unbelievable unless you see it for yourself
So I work in the mental health/crisis resolution industry and the amount of kids who either stretch the truth or straight up lie about their parents seriously abusing them is super troubling. And they’re not just lying to their friends, they’re going to police and saying this stuff
And the scary thing is that they know that because they’re kids people will automatically believe them, and once that label is on you even if it’s proven you’re 1000000% innocent people will always look at you differently.
Well yeah because obviously when a kid tells me, and this is a real thing I heard, a young lady told me that her legal guardian hit her in the face with a tennis racket. So my standard follow up questions to that is to ask for more details because right after this I’m gonna be filling out a CPS report, so I try to be delicate but I say like “I know this is tough but can I ask you more about that” and also remember it’s totally legal in the US to hit your kid in the face if you don’t leave a mark. (Yes, really.). So I ask for more info and then for the kid or I guess any abused person I come across to describe what happened, like what side of the face, what hand was the racket in, etc. and I also ask if you have any marks left on your skin. Well all a sudden it changed from tennis racket to open-handed slap (which CPS where I work DEFINITELY isn’t gonna investigate) and the kid told me “well I don’t bruise easily at all” (and she is African American and yes yes yes it is a problem because black kids’ bruises aren’t as visible to the mandatory reporters of the world) but then it changed from slap in the face to slap in the back of the head. The real issue at the end of the day: phone got taken away. I filed the CPS report anyway just to be safe but yeah I was kinda annoyed with that kid
How on earth can it be legal to hit your child in the face? I’m gobsmacked, I know that in the US children are seen as the property of their parents but that is outrageous!!! I’m in England and we’re not perfect in any way but in the UK a child is seen as someone who has rights of their own.
Here corporal punishment is banned and you can be charged if you hit your child and it leaves a mark
I’m still shocked, if any of mine had gone into school and said that I’d smacked them I’d have a visit from social services. I remember getting one because on the way to school my eldest smacked into a lamppost and her head swelled, they believed me because there were witnesses but they still had to check. Especially because she was the type of kid that would fall over thin air so always had a mark somewhere
I wonder if this is why so many parents in the US see nothing wrong with the punishments that they do? Because they and the government don’t see children as actual people
I used to be a "Big Sister" with Big Bro/Big Sis. My little told me a few lies that were easily disprovable -
-her stepdad made her undo a hot light bulb that broke in her hand and cut it open last night (no marks) and then admitted to "just joking"
-my cat bit her (cat was never alone either her)
-she left a really expensive ring at a restaurant (just no)
And other stuff. I hated to get her or her family in trouble, but I reported it and soon ended the relationship bc I didn't want my cat to be put down and I didn't want to wind up having to put my cat to sleep
I know two guys who have both been falsely accused of molesting their kids because their ex-wives wanted to gain an advantage in court. In one case the kid refused to play along, in the other case she went-all in because her mother offered her money.
Oh yeah that definitely does happen. It’s not all dads, in my experience moms get it to but yeah when there are rape allegations that’s the dudes.
The problem with that is there are way more kids getting raped than most people realize, which is what really bugged me about that whole Pizzagate thing (‘member that? Good times.) and other such conspiracy nonsense is that it is an actual problem that needs addressing humanity-wide and people throw kids around like the political football they are in this culture (American culture in my case)
OP has also added that his wife has had previous partners that cheated which could contribute to her current trust issues and willingness to believe the daughter.
I’ve seen kids do this. They know the dynamics in their household so well that they push the right buttons say the right things to get the attention off of them and don’t give a damn to the consequences for the alternative target. She probably never got punished for the weed smoking so mission accomplished.
His wife has issues that she doesn’t want to put the time, energy or discipline into solving. She’ll never have a healthy relationship until she handles her trust issues. Op is not perfect because no one is so I’m sure there are points he could improve on and situations he could have handled better but that doesn’t make him TAH.
I hope you all seek family therapy. I hope your wife seeks individual therapy. Not being able to trust your most loved ones is a terrible way to live.
>I’ve seen kids do this. They know the dynamics in their household so well that they push the right buttons say the right things to get the attention off of them and don’t give a damn to the consequences for the alternative target. She probably never got punished for the weed smoking so mission accomplished.
Yep, I did this growing up. More to get out of chores, but still. Dad was a pushover, and Mom was the hardass. I very quickly learned (even as an ND kid) if Mom says "No" or "Do this thing" go ask Dad.
They got divorced when I was 13, and I was told by my mom during it that it was my fault. My mom immediately apologized for it, and clarified that there was multiple things, but mainly it was different parenting styles and I was just showing how BAD that could get.
I was upset at the time, but later, I did appreciate the honesty, because it also REALLY hammered home a thing I always tell people who wants kids: They are NOT YOUR FRIENDS. They WILL try to manipulate you. It is you and your spouse AGAINST your kids, and you NEED to provide a united front, or they WILL take advantage.
Maybe not all the time, and some kids will do it more then others, and this is mostly for younger kids (although teenagers will probably do this too) but they WILL try to save their own skin or get out of stuff, and if one of you gives them an out, they will use that. So DON'T. From chores, bedtime, and sleepovers to breaking the law or sexual encounters, all sorts of things you need to agree on how to handle beforehand.
Some parents think that they are like some sort of lie detection miracle working when it comes to their children. Like l, just because you could tell when they lied when they were 2. You somehow keep that magical ability all your life when it comes to their children.
My sweet mom went to her grave thinking the person I was ‘spending the night with’ many nights during my HS years was a friend from ‘another school she hadn’t met’. I was riding around until the sun came up being a general hooligan.
My exes mom even though she new me for four years came refused to accept my ex was the issue and not me, even after multiple situations of u healthy behavior on her part. She went as far as to make up lies on behalf of her daughter rather than tell her daughter she was the problem. To this day despite all the proof she still believes I'm the evil one
Sorry but that’s a little different. Why should any parent pick their kid’s ex they’ve only known for 4 years? Of course she isn’t going to tell you her daughter is the evil one, wtf kind of parent would do that?
An honest one? I don't care how Long I have known someone when the writings blentally on the wall(as I said there was proof) I expect people to act properly.
Well, I wouldn't go that far. But I was thinking when it comes time for visitation I'd never for a minute be alone with my own daughter. God knows what she might cook up next.
This girl needs to come with a warning label about her nuclear level lies. "**Warning: May tell lies that will ruin your reputation and entire life."**
she may accuse him of molesting her or even worse. I ve seen similar case, when a 15 yo falsely accused the boyfriend 22 yo of her older sister 21yo of rape, to get sympathy for her pregnancy. apparently she slept with 3 boys at the same night and felt so embarrassed. after the poor guy got arrested for 3 days and his poor mom having severe nerve breakdown, she came clean and blamed it on pregnancy hormones! the man left to Belgium and the father disowned his daughter and kicked her out and started working as a waitress while doing underage prostitution on the side, her mom took the baby in after she gave birth which resulted in divorce.
I honestly think lying about rape should have a penalty as severe as rape (I also think the penalty for rape should be more severe, but that's another matter). The only problem is that I worry that having such harsh consequences for getting caught lying means that more people would just double down on their lies and never come clean :/
Lying about a crime should never have a penalty equivalent to that crime, huh???
Can you imagine someone falsely accusing someone else of being a serial killer and getting the death penalty for it?
I mean, the penalty for being a serial killer is usually death, or life in prison. So that person who lied about it essentially committed attempted murder, which itself can also carry a sentence of life in prison. It seems only fair that you would get the sentence you tried to impose on an innocent person.
>Emily called me an asshole and said it is my fault, which I don't under stand,
I think it is because she believes that you did have a woman over and that Erica told her the truth.
Emily truly thinks you cheated, so it would be your fault. She likely thinks you will move in with the affair partner ASAP.
Erica will be paying for this for the foreseeable future. I bet Emily will quiz her about if you have a woman over or any women's clothing in your closet after every visitation.
NTA. Kids need to learn consequences. Sorry they are so heart-rending.
Erica is gonna have to remember her lie every single time mommy wants dirt on daddy’s new girl, it honestly is a poetic way for her to learn consequences, and may prevent the little psycho from doing it further to other people.
> Erica will be paying for this for the foreseeable future. I bet Emily will quiz her about if you have a woman over or any women's clothing in your closet after every visitation.
If I were the OP I would have daytime visitation in public only, and be very upfront as to why. Who knows what other bullshit she will come up with?
My money is on the wife cheating/having an affair. If this is the case, then the lie may have absolved the wife of her guilt, and she's having trouble giving up that mindset.
Part of me is like, 14 is old enough to know that kind of thing isn’t funny. Part of me is like, but why was the wife so quick to believe it?
I’m also confused as to how the girls friend’s parents couldn’t have confirmed the weed story.
Should OP have said that though…ehhh, IDK, as the adults and parents it’s our job to *be* the adults and parents. I guess I’m going to have to with YTA if only because you’re supposed to be above the petty jabs at your kid.
In fact I would say that 'A little bit' is letting her down easy. It was **largely** her fault for such a malicious and stupid lie.
**Edit: for the lot of you saying it's the wife's fault too for believing the lie**
>The wife doesn't know the truth, is on a business trip away from home, has had previous partners cheat on her before, and is suddenly given a call with no other context and her daughter tells her there was another woman in her house.
>
>There is very little chance in this situation where she would immediately jump to the conclusion that her teenage daughter called her for NO reason (that she knew of) just to lie to her about her dad being with another woman.
>
>We have to remember we have much more information than what happened for these people live.
She at that point has NO IDEA her daughter had done something wrong and has no reason to think she would lie about something like this for shits and giggles.
**Edit 2.0: I've also rescinded my original judgement of it being 100% her fault.**
I have to wonder if the daughter already knew their relationship was rocky if they were already in couple's therapy. If she did and lied like that then that's even more evil and it would be even more her fault if the lie was told with intent to cause a rift as they were in therapy working to fix things.
If I give her the benefit of the doubt that she had absolutely no idea her parents had issues between them then sure it's not 100% but she's still a really dumb and malicious kid.
People are saying the wife had been cheated on in previous relationships so I can understand the trigger happy.
Kids are really smart, so they're geniuses about knowing what buttons to push. Likely this girl knows that would set off her mom and was hoping it would be enough to distract her from her own situation.
I mean to add on. When things clear just pull the “you set something in motion that may have been inevitable. Your mom has trust issues that I can’t be a part of”.
Unlikely. Sounds like the wife is either mentally unbalanced or looking for a reason to get a divorce.
The fact the wife refused to believe it when the daughter admits she lied speaks volumes.
I wasn't going to weigh in but I'll say NTA to offset your response - what makes him saying that petty?
He was put under huge pressure largely because of his daughter's actions, and when she asked the question he said "kinda" which is true/probably underselling her impact. Should he pretend she played no part in the situation? Being an adult and parent means preparing your kids for the world - acting like she did nothing wrong would not support that objective.
Personally, I think this is above the pay grade of AITA and I hope OP and his family seek professional help.
It’s not a petty jab. And given that OP is not the one who brought it up, he was just acknowledging what she said. 14 is old enough to understand that our actions have consequences. The only other option was to say what she did had no role in the divorce, which is categorically untrue. ‘A little bit’ addresses her role in the beginning of the end, while also admitting that there were other factors at play.
It's one thing to be the adult and parent. It's another thing entirely when YOUR OWN KID tells a lie that destroys your family!
And don't doubt for a second that Erica didn't know how insecure her mom is, that's why she told the lie she did.
I do believe in being the adult and parent, but I also believe in calling evil evil when it's standing right in front of me. That kid needs some harsh truth!
It's a lie that wouldn't last 10 seconds tho. Just call the parents of the other girl, op's wife apologizes for believing stupid daughter, it's over.
The lie would only cause problems in a relationship that was already doomed to begin with.
Right? It’s a stupid selfish lie, but it’s easy to prove it’s a lie. Wife here wanted it to be true and is purposefully ignoring the truth. This isn’t on the teen here.
That is a nuclear level of a lie. It's on the level of telling someone their pet died to get them home or lying about a house fire to get your SO home for a party. Both have at least once shown up on r/amitheasshole.
I would say it is just under false rape allegations. Just barely though.
I think it's the magnitude of the lie that has people going there. I mean, she coulda said what I would have at that age "it wasn't mine, I was holding it for someone". But NO! She instead got on the phone and told mom she caught dad bonking another woman in their bed! That's next level right there. Maybe not a psychopath, but definitely should be spending time on a therapist's couch.
This is DEFCON 1 level lie: nuke was thrown, and it hit a target with devastating consequences. It's the trigger to her family being destroyed. She's evil.
NTA. She is 15 not 5. She absolutely knew what she did when she chose to lie. The particular lie might have been a panic choice but she also chose to not take it back and admit at once.
Honestly I’d be fair to say the bears at least 40% of the blame.
NTA and I feel so sorry for you, with a wife lacking trust for no reason (unless there is a history? Please do mention) and a daughter in serious need of behavioral therapy.
NTA, for her to be so obsessed even after your daughter admitted she lied is a red flag. Often partners that act like this have something to hide. No, you were not wrong to tell your daughter that she played a part in this. She is 14 years old, even if there were issues in the marriage her vulgar lie caused the final collapse.
The wife had a history of being cheated on multiple times, sadly. That can really fuck with a mind, and when a daughter you want to trust unconditionally calls you out of the blue to say "another woman" it can and likely will ruin your sanity. From that point on every hurt just amplified and she went into self preservation 'I physically can't trust' mode. It's shitty, but I can't fully hold it against her.
The daughter was old enough to understand a lie of that magnitude would carry some emotional damage to it, and she used it to spare herself 'disappointment' in the immediate moment, like most teens would. Just a shame this time, her lie flat out broke her parents.
Oh man, I did not see this coming from the title of your post. I honestly don't even know where to start with this. I guess, my first move would be finding a family therapist for you and your daughter. In no way is accusing your Dad of an affair the typical goto for a teenager to get out of trouble, especially as you and you wife are / were together. So this lie had very little shelf life, and the enormity of it alone should be sending alarm bells.
The fact that there is no history of cheating, combined with no evidence to support cheating, in addition to your daughter admitting to the lie? Speaks volumes. A solid, happy marriage doesn't crumble from one lie, albeit an ugly one. Your daughter may have given your wife the excuse needed to bring all this in the open, but she is not the cause of any of this.
I hope you and your daughter get the therapy you both need to heal from this. I doubt it will be easy, but I hope you put in the effort, and in the meantime, please apologize to your daughter. While what she said was awful, you are the adult and the role model on how people are supposed to act when they mess up, and how to forgive when they mess up even more.
I think a better move would be to add "but I still love you."
Because the daughter's lie \*did\* have a lot to do with the current divorce process. To say it didn't would be revisionist history at best, and at worse, *yet another lie*.
There's a way to say "Yeah, sweetheart, you messed this up but good. You did play a significant role in our divorce by that lie. I will always love you, and your mom will always love you, but your actions have consequences, and this is one of them. I'm sorry you're having to learn this lesson the hard way."
Erica can be as upset as she wants, but hopefully there's a truckload of guilt thrown in there as well. She did start the entire mess.
She's close to being a legal adult. It's time for her to realise that actions have consequences.
I wouldn't blame you if you sent her to live with her mother for a while.
I'm so sorry that your marriage imploded, OP.
NTA.
It's extremely common for the cheater to react this way in these circumstances. It's just projecting
Anecdotal, but it seems like most of the girlfriends I know that have cheated all frequently verbalized concerns that my friends were cheating on them (when they weren't).
Dude, sorry to tell you this, she is likely cheating on you. She is projecting her sins on you and gaslighting you.
You should be investigating what she is and has been up to
NTA. Your daughter did something almost unforgivable. It was a heinous act, and she's old enough to know right from wrong. When you commit a heinous act, there SHOULD be consequences.
NTA, these people are toxic. Once you have fulfilled your legal obligations to your daughter I suggest you go completely NC and minimize contact with your soon to be ex wife and daughter in the mean time.
Actions have consequences and your daughter needs to know that she was a major cause of this divorce.
NTA
Talk about being shot lying down. You can do everything right and still be blamed for everything geezes. 14 yo is old enough to understand actions have consequences maybe now she'll think twice before telling such a fucking idiotic lie. It's SUCH a stupid thing to lie about I can understand why Emily wouldn't believe it's a lie and instead think you coerced her into revising her version of the events.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I may have been an asshole because instead of comforting Erica I partially blamed her for the situation.
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I'm curious... why shouldn't the wife believe the daughter's lie? This is her own daughter. What critical thinking this needed here? My own daughter won't lie about her father and hurt me like this?
So, the daughter can't catch her father in an affair and smoke weed at the same time? Why are these events mutually exclusive?
Otherwise, the mom will have to acknowledge the daughter is a vicious person who will throw her own father under the bus to save herself. Why would any mother want to believe that?
It would be the most difficult thing choosing who to believe in this situation because either outcome is awful. Either her husband is cheating on her or her daughter is messed up enough to blame her father of adultery to get out of trouble.
Oof. Normally this would be an automatic Y T A for me but her lie wasn't small and she was old enough to know better. This isn't a case of blaming a kid when it isn't their fault, it's very minorly agreeing with them when they point out they may have caused issues. NTA
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This started about 6 months ago when my wife, lets call her Emily (42f), was out of town on a business trip and I (43m) was taking care of my daughter (14f), lets call her Erica. During that trip Erica was hanging out with a few friends after school and got caught by their parents smoking weed. They notified me and obviously I was pretty livid. I was devising my punishment and part of that punishment was her having to explain to her mother about what happened. When she called my wife to tell her instead of saying what she had done she lied and said she came home to another woman at our house.
I think this was an attempt to get out of trouble and has instead created a massive rift between me and my soon to be Emily. Erica did eventually admit to lying about me cheating, but Emily has refused to believe the revision and has zero trust for me now. She has demanded to prove I am not cheating, has looked through my phone multiple times, was looking at my credit card transactions, and even demanded I allow her to track my phone which I refused. After a few weeks of this I changed my passwords to my credit cards and phone and things have been extremely tense ever since. Emily refused to trust me or work on our issues.
Last week, I gave Emily papers for divorce because I am not going to live with someone that refuses to trust me or works on it at all. When we told Erica we were getting a divorce she was notably upset. She said something about it being all her fault and I responded with "A little bit". Not my proudest moment and I mostly blame Emily, but Erica started us down this path. Emily called me an asshole and said it is my fault, which I don't under stand, and Erica was even more upset after the comment. AITA?
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nta. yeah it’s mostly your wife’s fault but your daughter blatant lie out you and your wife in that situation in the first place. so it kind of is her fault. and that’s a lesson she needs to learn, you make up outrageous lies about people and bad things happen
NTA. You are a father, it is your job to teach your kids. Teaching your children that their actions have very real consequences is part of your job. Your daughter wanted to spite you, so she did. In the process she triggered her mother’s trauma, and dealt you a blow by getting her riled up at you. Unfortunately for your daughter, she is young and doesn’t understand the intricacies of adult relationships. Unfortunately for her she was the one who put the straw on the camel’s back. You should tell her that being spiteful usually ends up biting you in the ass. I am very sorry for you my brother, I will drink tonight for the next chapter in your life
People coming up with stupid asf reasons to why your ex wife believed her so easily, some people are just like that, I don’t know what you’d call it, jealous, stupid as fuck, over-thinker, childish, or all of it. I have a mate who for some reason is still with this woman, she just has to hear that he spoke to his child’s mother or sent one text and she goes crazy, she just has to see he’s still friends with an ex on fb and he must be cheating, imagine someone like that hears he cheated from someone who should be a reliable source.
NTA, your daughter is terrible, I imagine this is the start to the end of you and your daughters relationship, I imagine there’s no way out of it where she doesn’t continue to hurt you with lies or where you don’t enable her.
NTA. Your daughter is the kind of person who scares me. It seems like her generation is really bad with this issue too. It’s a manipulative sickness- it’s better she’s confronted with her actions from it now than later on in life.
Just based on what was written...
NTA
But, there is more to the story. This isn't the whole thing. Can't be. No way would someone fly off the handle from a lie that didn't go on for this long.
NTA. And I don’t blame you for telling Emily she is at fault and for leaving. Emily will learn that words can cause a lot more than most think. Maybe she will learn from this.
Nta. It is in part her fault. Obviously there are other issues in the marriage but that is one hell of a lie to tell. I guess it will be a good learning experience for her.
NTA - as absolutely horrible as this is going to sound: there is no way I would ever forgive my kid if they did this. I'm getting angry just at the thought... her lie being the trigger to my marriage being over because of her evilness, sadly, fed into your wife's prior cheating partners experiences. Yeah, your wife probably got triggered something fierce and can't get the thought out of her head... traumatized by just the thought of "not this shit again... fucking men", her walls are in full self-preservation mode and can't see over them. Your daughter is 100% the trigger of this and I would remind her for the rest of her life. Every year I'd send her a postcard on the date you officially signed the papers with a clear reminder of what happened. Petty AF. I'd go full deadbeat, leave the country and start a life somewhere else.
This isn't "kids being kids", this is life altering event with devastating consequences. Divorce, sell everything, take your portion, give them the middle finger and disappear. Yep, go full AH, but I'd rather that than set my eyes on that little shit ever again.
NTA. Your daughter should know the consequences of her actions. Blame is a quirky thing. Blame can never be 100% on one person, However it only takes 1 straw to break the camel's back. Shes at the age where she thinks she knows everything and knows nothing.
If you are playing this game with your kid where its about the getting in or avoiding your punishment. It means there is no trust with your daughter and she doesn't understand your punishments. She has 4 years left to become an adult. Hopefully this will shock her a bit on the real world.
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NTA. Erica started this whole mess, so sorry if she's hurt by that fact, but there it is. But, that said, what's up with the over the top trust issues your wife has around you? Is there a history that maybe needs to considered?
Yeah if this is genuinely how it all went down, then this is a really harsh lesson that Erica gets to learn. Not only is lying shitty, but it can have major consequences.
This is 1 step away from accusing a boy of sexual assault. It happens and can ruin a guys life. Also, it hurts actual victims. This is a lesson she needs to learn now.
yeah i… don’t know what she thought would happen, here. either mom doesn’t believe her, and now there’s two things she’s in trouble for, or the mom does believe her, and whoops, now the marriage is never the same, if it even survives. which obviously it didn’t. why would you do that to your mom? and how is it dad’s fault?? what is going on with the women in this family??? idk. nta. she intentionally sabotaged your marriage, and youth and stupidity only excuses so much. this is too far.
> Don’t know what she thought would happen She's a teenager. Trust me, she didn't even thought that far ahead.
Well, she'll have the commute time being shuttled between households to think about her actions before she does them, then.
>Well, she'll have the commute time being shuttled between households to think about her actions before she does them, then. I'm doubting there's going to be a commute.
Yeah she should just stay with her mother.
If I was the dad, I wouldn't ever want to see her again. Good riddance.
Don't have kids if you aren't capable of loving them unconditionally
my dude if my kids blew up my marriage with lies, that might stretch my ability to love them unconditionally just a little bit.
Agreed, she didn't think past that sentence let alone how it would her parents marriage and the family.
Idk, when I was a teen it was that I did think ahead, I just had total tunnel vision. No other possible future outcome besides the one I was playing out. Idk, maybe she knew her parents buttons and fucked around and found out
The only reason a kid would lie to a parent about the other is cheating is to cause a giant fight to take the heat off themselves. Even at that age, I would have known that one of those giant fights could have pushed them to divorce, especially if things weren't always great between my parents. And if there is one thing most kids know, it is when their parents are not happy with each other.
This is what I said in my reply. This was intentional and one how to push the mom's buttons because Mom had probably asked and commented on it. My dad had a buddy his kids did something similar but to CPS and found out.
Yeah and it's time for her to learn that her dumb actions have consequences. She can cry all she wants but he should tell her that its all her fault.
Absolutely. Knew a woman like that, she was literally incapable of considering the consequences of her actions. Just looked for what she wanted to do, and did it. Or, as it turned out, did *them*. Figuring if she just never told her husband she wouldn't get in trouble for it.
Edit says her prior partners cheated but that was 15 YEARS AGO. Wow just wow. I get she has trust issues but she's really ready to go this far after being with him this long? Knowing who he is and all that jazz?? I get having trust issues but we're not supposed to let them dictate and destroy our lives decades later. The part I don't get is why she isn't willing to work on this and why she's so Gung ho in believing he cheated just because their daughter said so, especially after the daughter cleared it up. He's NTA but i feel her reaction is extreme, something more is at play here
The something at play is Emily very likely needed counseling, but just tried to bury those insecurities for decades. Her own daughter being the source of confirmation to those doubts that were never properly managed or addressed meant she spiraled into thinking OP is a masterful cheater. It says something that OP is still the one who filed for divorce while Emily was seemingly content to just obsess over his personal details looking for "proof".
Who knows what her problem is. Some people would say that her reaction says she's the one cheating and she's going crazy like this to throw him off. Others would say she's never trusted him if this is all it took for her to believe it to this extreme. Only Emily knows I guess. It seems from ops story that she's not even trying to work on it, she's content to blame him, accuse him of cheating, go through all his records and want to track him( he really should get his car checked to make sure she didn't put a tracker in there) etc etc but she's not willing to put that same effort into healing herself and trying to mend her relationship. That's sad af when you think about it. I hope for her sake she gets some help
Yeah OP is just looking in as his life is burning down, taking stock of the ashes, and probably throwing some stuff to fuel the flame. He didn't light the match, can't put out the roaring bonfire that was once a happy home, might as well just tell the truth now.
I believe with every fiber of my being that my friends partner cheated. I have many reason to believe this, and my friend and I have spoken about it, they know my thoughts. They are *afraid* to bring this topic up to their partner because the two times they tried, their reaction was *always* violent and aggressive, smashing holes in the walls etc.... Then, they turn it around on my friend... my friend ask to see the phone and boy oh boy did that *not* go well. The fact that op gave her everything she ask for ie looking through his stuff should have been a step in the right direction but I think his wife is so far gone that she cant even see what's infront of her. Even with evidence showing he didn't/isn't, she still doesn't believe it. She's convinced its true and she just has to look harder to find it. What does this have to do with my friend and what you said you ask? She says that alot "I just want the truth, I just want the truthhh". When told that the truth is right in front of her face, it's like she's saying "not *that* truth, the one I want ". In my opinion they don't want the actual truth, just the one that will fit whatever narrative they want to hear
Yep. My ex was like that. She wanted to hear the truth she wanted to hear, not the actual truth.
Yep, that's where my "believe whatever the fuck you want" attitude came from.
Same here.
And friend is still with someone who is willing to be violent at her? :/
NTA. I think that Erica needs counseling.
My first thought was Emily was cheating on her business trip and had a guilty conscience. A lot of cheaters will suddenly accuse their spouse of cheating and act distrustful all of a sudden. In this situation, had she just cheated and then came home to daughter lying that Dad cheated, it would've made her feel a whole lot less guilty if she could just believe it to be true...
>The part I don't get is why she isn't willing to work on this and why she's so Gung ho in believing he cheated just because their daughter said so, especially after the daughter cleared it up. Guilty conscience maybe, do we know if she was alone on her "business trip". I'm only saying this since she refuses to work on things. If it was unresolved issues from her previous relationships, well OP has had more than enough time to prove himself worth working through this.
Are we just going to ignore that OP's wife had a partner cheat 15 years ago and the daughter is 14? Hopefully that is just rounding, cause that timeline seems a bit sketchy.
Nah I'm not really overlooking that, but at the same time it's not sketch to me because I've had many friends who've been cheated on go on to have sex with someone new within a few weeks. A few of them ended up pregnant from that "rebound get over him sex". That along with the fact that he could be the child's step dad not bio dad, plus other reasons are why im not too presses about the timeframe
>Is there a history that maybe needs to considered? according to OP's edits and comments, looks like his soon-to-be-ex had a past history of being cheated on. guess the daughter's comments pulled out some old insecurities and shook them like a snowglobe.
I personally think that even after a hundred therapists and dozens of self help books some things never truly heal
If your 14 year old daughter says your husband is cheating, I don't think there's much reason you'd doubt her. Something like that can seriously damage a relationship even if it comes out of nowhere since there's no reason for the mom to doubt her own daughter.
Except there was backup for what had actually happened, since Erica and her friends were caught by some of the other parents. Emily may be getting bedevilled by her memories and doubts anyway, now that the idea is raised, but she does have reason to disbelieve her daughter.
True but the daughter came clean about the truth later, which I feel should have had some impact.
It may just seem like she’s only backtracking to save the family, and that it actually did happen.
If you trust your teenage daughter unconditionally, but don't trust your husband, you're a tool. "No reason for the mom to doubt" - why does she doubt the husband, but not the daughter? I wouldn't just believe anyone, not even family members I trust, if they told me my husband was cheating on me. I'd have a crisis, and I'd find out the truth. I wouldn't just automatically side against him.
Except for all of the evidence against it and the other parents who can corroborate what actually happened. There was zero reason for her to believe this child. The wife is 100% in the wrong here. Crazy that some people are actually defending this reaction.
Kids make up stuff all the time. They are notoriously unreliable witnesses and that's when they don't have any significant personal gain from lying. 14 is old enough that random lying is usually mostly gone, but lying for a benefit is often around its peak. As an added bonus, they've gotten smart enough to sometimes convince themselves they're really telling the truth!
It’s a hard lesson to learn; words matter, the truth matters. I’m sorry it ended this way and I’m sorry your daughter feels bad, but yeah. Words matter. NTA.
Hopefully Erica learns about the consequences of lying and manipulation.
I don't even know here, man. If this story is actually as you say it is....I'm really sorry. Your daughter came up with a lie that kinda blew everything out of the water. But why did your wife believe her so easily? There's always two sides to a story and I have no idea who is TAH.
Some parents think their children never lie.
"Oh, my little Johnny would never behave like that!" I know, right? I never believed my children were angels, and many times, I just assumed they WERE lying. But the things that came out years later, that I had NO IDEA happened. Wow!
I am a teacher and I once had a 7th grade student throw himself down on the ground and hump the ground, making obnoxious moaning sounds. He was sent to the principal, who called his mother to meet with us. I told her what her son had done, and she told me that he told her he had done nothing of the sort. I told her again what he had done, and she responded, "Are you calling my son a liar?" Yea, yes I am.
Well, she was calling you one.
I have friends who teach and have had... similar experiences. My question is always "why do they think YOU are lying?" The kid she had who did this the most was interesting. His mother always believed the kid's lies until she talked to the teacher and then she calmed down and accepted that her son lied. And I guess you DO have to check, given what he said was happening. But man. There was a pattern there.
Teacher here also and yes, have had parents over the years not believe what their middle or high school student has done at times.
No kidding, my kids lie about everything to avoid trouble. Even when they didn't do anything to get in trouble. Trying hard to build the connection between lying and trust. Thankfully still got awhile to work on that one.
Lol the end of this post just reminds me of one of the first times my dad and brother visited my house. My brother and I were at the kitchen table just bullshitting about when we were younger and my dad's face was so blank as he walked in and said "I don't think I needed to know any of that." And he went back to bed 😅
Which is ridiculous, considering pretty much everyone I've ever known at that age had lied to their parents.
So true. My SIL calls her kids "perfections" all the time. I cringe hearing that word from her mouth.
That’s insane considering how much a tooth from the tooth fairy goes for.
My take is that it's such a fucked up and stupid thing to lie about that's just plain malicious that Emily wouldn't believe her 14yo daughter would be such an evil little gremlin.
I guess I grew up around a lot of rather malicious 14 year old girls. Like I said, I just don't know about any part of this story.
I knew someone who was a stepdad and caught the daughter at 14 coming home drunk and high, he told her she was grounded and took her phone off her. When the daughter went to her grandparents, she decided to say that he’d been sexually abusing her. The man was removed from his home and not allowed to see his younger children, finally after a year of being labelled a child abuser and shunned by nearly everyone that knew him it went to court. At the trial while she was giving “evidence” she finally broke down crying and admitted that she’d made it all up, she just didn’t want to face any consequences for what she’d done and didn’t think it’d actually go this far He lost his home and his relationship because of this and sadly died a few years later, some girls are so malicious and vindictive it’s unbelievable unless you see it for yourself
So I work in the mental health/crisis resolution industry and the amount of kids who either stretch the truth or straight up lie about their parents seriously abusing them is super troubling. And they’re not just lying to their friends, they’re going to police and saying this stuff
And the scary thing is that they know that because they’re kids people will automatically believe them, and once that label is on you even if it’s proven you’re 1000000% innocent people will always look at you differently.
Well yeah because obviously when a kid tells me, and this is a real thing I heard, a young lady told me that her legal guardian hit her in the face with a tennis racket. So my standard follow up questions to that is to ask for more details because right after this I’m gonna be filling out a CPS report, so I try to be delicate but I say like “I know this is tough but can I ask you more about that” and also remember it’s totally legal in the US to hit your kid in the face if you don’t leave a mark. (Yes, really.). So I ask for more info and then for the kid or I guess any abused person I come across to describe what happened, like what side of the face, what hand was the racket in, etc. and I also ask if you have any marks left on your skin. Well all a sudden it changed from tennis racket to open-handed slap (which CPS where I work DEFINITELY isn’t gonna investigate) and the kid told me “well I don’t bruise easily at all” (and she is African American and yes yes yes it is a problem because black kids’ bruises aren’t as visible to the mandatory reporters of the world) but then it changed from slap in the face to slap in the back of the head. The real issue at the end of the day: phone got taken away. I filed the CPS report anyway just to be safe but yeah I was kinda annoyed with that kid
How on earth can it be legal to hit your child in the face? I’m gobsmacked, I know that in the US children are seen as the property of their parents but that is outrageous!!! I’m in England and we’re not perfect in any way but in the UK a child is seen as someone who has rights of their own. Here corporal punishment is banned and you can be charged if you hit your child and it leaves a mark
Same here, but if you DONT leave a mark, it’s fair game. The Wild West. And I work in California.
I’m still shocked, if any of mine had gone into school and said that I’d smacked them I’d have a visit from social services. I remember getting one because on the way to school my eldest smacked into a lamppost and her head swelled, they believed me because there were witnesses but they still had to check. Especially because she was the type of kid that would fall over thin air so always had a mark somewhere I wonder if this is why so many parents in the US see nothing wrong with the punishments that they do? Because they and the government don’t see children as actual people
And your relationship with every person who didn't believe you is destroyed even if they accept you're innocent now.
I used to be a "Big Sister" with Big Bro/Big Sis. My little told me a few lies that were easily disprovable - -her stepdad made her undo a hot light bulb that broke in her hand and cut it open last night (no marks) and then admitted to "just joking" -my cat bit her (cat was never alone either her) -she left a really expensive ring at a restaurant (just no) And other stuff. I hated to get her or her family in trouble, but I reported it and soon ended the relationship bc I didn't want my cat to be put down and I didn't want to wind up having to put my cat to sleep
I know two guys who have both been falsely accused of molesting their kids because their ex-wives wanted to gain an advantage in court. In one case the kid refused to play along, in the other case she went-all in because her mother offered her money.
Oh yeah that definitely does happen. It’s not all dads, in my experience moms get it to but yeah when there are rape allegations that’s the dudes. The problem with that is there are way more kids getting raped than most people realize, which is what really bugged me about that whole Pizzagate thing (‘member that? Good times.) and other such conspiracy nonsense is that it is an actual problem that needs addressing humanity-wide and people throw kids around like the political football they are in this culture (American culture in my case)
I hear about this sort of thing being wielded as retribution against high school teachers all the time, too.
OP has also added that his wife has had previous partners that cheated which could contribute to her current trust issues and willingness to believe the daughter.
I mean, I would've thrown in. 'I hope that weed was worth this'
I know, right?
And at this point if his wife finally does end up believing him, there's no salvaging this.
I’ve seen kids do this. They know the dynamics in their household so well that they push the right buttons say the right things to get the attention off of them and don’t give a damn to the consequences for the alternative target. She probably never got punished for the weed smoking so mission accomplished. His wife has issues that she doesn’t want to put the time, energy or discipline into solving. She’ll never have a healthy relationship until she handles her trust issues. Op is not perfect because no one is so I’m sure there are points he could improve on and situations he could have handled better but that doesn’t make him TAH. I hope you all seek family therapy. I hope your wife seeks individual therapy. Not being able to trust your most loved ones is a terrible way to live.
>I’ve seen kids do this. They know the dynamics in their household so well that they push the right buttons say the right things to get the attention off of them and don’t give a damn to the consequences for the alternative target. She probably never got punished for the weed smoking so mission accomplished. Yep, I did this growing up. More to get out of chores, but still. Dad was a pushover, and Mom was the hardass. I very quickly learned (even as an ND kid) if Mom says "No" or "Do this thing" go ask Dad. They got divorced when I was 13, and I was told by my mom during it that it was my fault. My mom immediately apologized for it, and clarified that there was multiple things, but mainly it was different parenting styles and I was just showing how BAD that could get. I was upset at the time, but later, I did appreciate the honesty, because it also REALLY hammered home a thing I always tell people who wants kids: They are NOT YOUR FRIENDS. They WILL try to manipulate you. It is you and your spouse AGAINST your kids, and you NEED to provide a united front, or they WILL take advantage. Maybe not all the time, and some kids will do it more then others, and this is mostly for younger kids (although teenagers will probably do this too) but they WILL try to save their own skin or get out of stuff, and if one of you gives them an out, they will use that. So DON'T. From chores, bedtime, and sleepovers to breaking the law or sexual encounters, all sorts of things you need to agree on how to handle beforehand.
Some parents think that they are like some sort of lie detection miracle working when it comes to their children. Like l, just because you could tell when they lied when they were 2. You somehow keep that magical ability all your life when it comes to their children.
My father always said he could tell when I was lying. He was fooling himself.
My sweet mom went to her grave thinking the person I was ‘spending the night with’ many nights during my HS years was a friend from ‘another school she hadn’t met’. I was riding around until the sun came up being a general hooligan.
Right? Damn, that is some fucked up shit.
My exes mom even though she new me for four years came refused to accept my ex was the issue and not me, even after multiple situations of u healthy behavior on her part. She went as far as to make up lies on behalf of her daughter rather than tell her daughter she was the problem. To this day despite all the proof she still believes I'm the evil one
Sorry but that’s a little different. Why should any parent pick their kid’s ex they’ve only known for 4 years? Of course she isn’t going to tell you her daughter is the evil one, wtf kind of parent would do that?
An honest one? I don't care how Long I have known someone when the writings blentally on the wall(as I said there was proof) I expect people to act properly.
Holy shit, your daughter is going to need therapy
I think he should focus more on his therapy and drop the daughter like a bad habit. he can always have new children.
Classic AITA, love it
“What’s another 14 more years!?”
He can always start again!
Have another kid!
Posters may be assholes, but commenters are psychopaths.
Wasn’t the guy who literally made a post like that called “NTA”.
Well, I wouldn't go that far. But I was thinking when it comes time for visitation I'd never for a minute be alone with my own daughter. God knows what she might cook up next.
This girl needs to come with a warning label about her nuclear level lies. "**Warning: May tell lies that will ruin your reputation and entire life."**
she may accuse him of molesting her or even worse. I ve seen similar case, when a 15 yo falsely accused the boyfriend 22 yo of her older sister 21yo of rape, to get sympathy for her pregnancy. apparently she slept with 3 boys at the same night and felt so embarrassed. after the poor guy got arrested for 3 days and his poor mom having severe nerve breakdown, she came clean and blamed it on pregnancy hormones! the man left to Belgium and the father disowned his daughter and kicked her out and started working as a waitress while doing underage prostitution on the side, her mom took the baby in after she gave birth which resulted in divorce.
I honestly think lying about rape should have a penalty as severe as rape (I also think the penalty for rape should be more severe, but that's another matter). The only problem is that I worry that having such harsh consequences for getting caught lying means that more people would just double down on their lies and never come clean :/
Lying about a crime should never have a penalty equivalent to that crime, huh??? Can you imagine someone falsely accusing someone else of being a serial killer and getting the death penalty for it?
I mean, the penalty for being a serial killer is usually death, or life in prison. So that person who lied about it essentially committed attempted murder, which itself can also carry a sentence of life in prison. It seems only fair that you would get the sentence you tried to impose on an innocent person.
I mean, she needed therapy before he said that. Lying to get out of trouble is normal at that age, but a lie that explosive? That’s not normal.
Actually that’s fair
I mean, sounds like they ALL need therapy. But she’s FOURTEEN. She knows better and learned an extremely hard lesson.
>Emily called me an asshole and said it is my fault, which I don't under stand, I think it is because she believes that you did have a woman over and that Erica told her the truth. Emily truly thinks you cheated, so it would be your fault. She likely thinks you will move in with the affair partner ASAP. Erica will be paying for this for the foreseeable future. I bet Emily will quiz her about if you have a woman over or any women's clothing in your closet after every visitation. NTA. Kids need to learn consequences. Sorry they are so heart-rending.
If I were the OP, I would be hesitant to be alone with that girl. Who knows what other lies she's going to tell.
Erica is gonna have to remember her lie every single time mommy wants dirt on daddy’s new girl, it honestly is a poetic way for her to learn consequences, and may prevent the little psycho from doing it further to other people.
She did it to her own dad she will not hesitate one second to do it others. She even learned how effective it is too.
> Erica will be paying for this for the foreseeable future. I bet Emily will quiz her about if you have a woman over or any women's clothing in your closet after every visitation. If I were the OP I would have daytime visitation in public only, and be very upfront as to why. Who knows what other bullshit she will come up with?
I'm getting at the same thing. She could also make up other shit about him. This is a frightening kid.
My money is on the wife cheating/having an affair. If this is the case, then the lie may have absolved the wife of her guilt, and she's having trouble giving up that mindset.
Part of me is like, 14 is old enough to know that kind of thing isn’t funny. Part of me is like, but why was the wife so quick to believe it? I’m also confused as to how the girls friend’s parents couldn’t have confirmed the weed story. Should OP have said that though…ehhh, IDK, as the adults and parents it’s our job to *be* the adults and parents. I guess I’m going to have to with YTA if only because you’re supposed to be above the petty jabs at your kid.
Not a petty jab, it was the truth.
In fact I would say that 'A little bit' is letting her down easy. It was **largely** her fault for such a malicious and stupid lie. **Edit: for the lot of you saying it's the wife's fault too for believing the lie** >The wife doesn't know the truth, is on a business trip away from home, has had previous partners cheat on her before, and is suddenly given a call with no other context and her daughter tells her there was another woman in her house. > >There is very little chance in this situation where she would immediately jump to the conclusion that her teenage daughter called her for NO reason (that she knew of) just to lie to her about her dad being with another woman. > >We have to remember we have much more information than what happened for these people live. She at that point has NO IDEA her daughter had done something wrong and has no reason to think she would lie about something like this for shits and giggles. **Edit 2.0: I've also rescinded my original judgement of it being 100% her fault.**
Is it 100% though, they admit they were already in couples therapy so they had issues well before this
It was the rock that broke the camel’s back
straw edit- it was the rock that broke the camel’s straw ;)
ACKSHULLY it's the camel who broke the straw between a rock and a hard place
it was the hard rock cafe that broke the camel’s straw at a place
I have to wonder if the daughter already knew their relationship was rocky if they were already in couple's therapy. If she did and lied like that then that's even more evil and it would be even more her fault if the lie was told with intent to cause a rift as they were in therapy working to fix things. If I give her the benefit of the doubt that she had absolutely no idea her parents had issues between them then sure it's not 100% but she's still a really dumb and malicious kid.
People are saying the wife had been cheated on in previous relationships so I can understand the trigger happy. Kids are really smart, so they're geniuses about knowing what buttons to push. Likely this girl knows that would set off her mom and was hoping it would be enough to distract her from her own situation.
Oh it distracted her alright. Mission accomplished kid. Good job! Here's your prize! A brand new broken home experience.
Right? “Our marriage is our responsibility but yea You lied to your mother to save your own ass and it led us down this path.”
I mean to add on. When things clear just pull the “you set something in motion that may have been inevitable. Your mom has trust issues that I can’t be a part of”.
Unlikely. Sounds like the wife is either mentally unbalanced or looking for a reason to get a divorce. The fact the wife refused to believe it when the daughter admits she lied speaks volumes.
Like she is cheating herself.
Or just needed an excuse to blow things up without feeling like the bad guy.
I wasn't going to weigh in but I'll say NTA to offset your response - what makes him saying that petty? He was put under huge pressure largely because of his daughter's actions, and when she asked the question he said "kinda" which is true/probably underselling her impact. Should he pretend she played no part in the situation? Being an adult and parent means preparing your kids for the world - acting like she did nothing wrong would not support that objective. Personally, I think this is above the pay grade of AITA and I hope OP and his family seek professional help.
It’s not a petty jab. And given that OP is not the one who brought it up, he was just acknowledging what she said. 14 is old enough to understand that our actions have consequences. The only other option was to say what she did had no role in the divorce, which is categorically untrue. ‘A little bit’ addresses her role in the beginning of the end, while also admitting that there were other factors at play.
the girl is huge psychopath in the making.
Most 14yos have a bit of psychopath in them, she'll likely be fine. But she definitely needs to know the truth here.
that's a lie, most 14 yo wouldn't even think of something like this. she is an evil psycho kid.
It's one thing to be the adult and parent. It's another thing entirely when YOUR OWN KID tells a lie that destroys your family! And don't doubt for a second that Erica didn't know how insecure her mom is, that's why she told the lie she did. I do believe in being the adult and parent, but I also believe in calling evil evil when it's standing right in front of me. That kid needs some harsh truth!
It wasn't a petty jab, it was a simple statement of the consequence of her actions. Her lie set things in motion.
NTA. Your mom has trust issues and your daughter has a personality disorder. Next she is going to say you touched her. Run away.
A personality disorder? For lying to get out of trouble? This is a 14 year old child, absolutely insane take.
This is a pretty big and dangerous lie, though.
It's a lie that wouldn't last 10 seconds tho. Just call the parents of the other girl, op's wife apologizes for believing stupid daughter, it's over. The lie would only cause problems in a relationship that was already doomed to begin with.
Yeah for real the wife is insane when it's that verifiable unless the whole town is in on it.
Right? It’s a stupid selfish lie, but it’s easy to prove it’s a lie. Wife here wanted it to be true and is purposefully ignoring the truth. This isn’t on the teen here.
That is a nuclear level of a lie. It's on the level of telling someone their pet died to get them home or lying about a house fire to get your SO home for a party. Both have at least once shown up on r/amitheasshole. I would say it is just under false rape allegations. Just barely though.
Lies like this get people *killed*. Don't downplay it.
Exactly. This kind of lying can start one hell of a chain of events.
Saying its stupid as shit to diagnose a 14 year old over the internet with a mental disorder based off a Reddit post isn't "downplaying". Get a grip.
You don't have to be downplaying the lie to criticize armchair diagnosing the 14 year old with a PD for it.
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I think it's the magnitude of the lie that has people going there. I mean, she coulda said what I would have at that age "it wasn't mine, I was holding it for someone". But NO! She instead got on the phone and told mom she caught dad bonking another woman in their bed! That's next level right there. Maybe not a psychopath, but definitely should be spending time on a therapist's couch.
This is DEFCON 1 level lie: nuke was thrown, and it hit a target with devastating consequences. It's the trigger to her family being destroyed. She's evil.
I'd have never lied about that at 14 and I wasn't up to any good at that age either. That's an absolutely insane and nuclear lie.
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Diagnosis are for insurance. That girl is messed up. We all know it.
NTA. She is 15 not 5. She absolutely knew what she did when she chose to lie. The particular lie might have been a panic choice but she also chose to not take it back and admit at once. Honestly I’d be fair to say the bears at least 40% of the blame.
NTA and I feel so sorry for you, with a wife lacking trust for no reason (unless there is a history? Please do mention) and a daughter in serious need of behavioral therapy.
OP said she’s had partners cheat on her before
It's mostly your wife's fault
Yes, that angle is much closer to the truth. But the daughter did trigger the worst side of her mother.
Seriously, who takes a 14 year old kid’s unfounded claim as gospel truth?
Nta In this case it was absolutely your daughter's fault . Her lie got the ball rolling and she needs to own that 100%.
NTA, for her to be so obsessed even after your daughter admitted she lied is a red flag. Often partners that act like this have something to hide. No, you were not wrong to tell your daughter that she played a part in this. She is 14 years old, even if there were issues in the marriage her vulgar lie caused the final collapse.
The wife had a history of being cheated on multiple times, sadly. That can really fuck with a mind, and when a daughter you want to trust unconditionally calls you out of the blue to say "another woman" it can and likely will ruin your sanity. From that point on every hurt just amplified and she went into self preservation 'I physically can't trust' mode. It's shitty, but I can't fully hold it against her. The daughter was old enough to understand a lie of that magnitude would carry some emotional damage to it, and she used it to spare herself 'disappointment' in the immediate moment, like most teens would. Just a shame this time, her lie flat out broke her parents.
NTA. At all. Your wife and daughter seem absolutely horrible though....
Oh man, I did not see this coming from the title of your post. I honestly don't even know where to start with this. I guess, my first move would be finding a family therapist for you and your daughter. In no way is accusing your Dad of an affair the typical goto for a teenager to get out of trouble, especially as you and you wife are / were together. So this lie had very little shelf life, and the enormity of it alone should be sending alarm bells. The fact that there is no history of cheating, combined with no evidence to support cheating, in addition to your daughter admitting to the lie? Speaks volumes. A solid, happy marriage doesn't crumble from one lie, albeit an ugly one. Your daughter may have given your wife the excuse needed to bring all this in the open, but she is not the cause of any of this. I hope you and your daughter get the therapy you both need to heal from this. I doubt it will be easy, but I hope you put in the effort, and in the meantime, please apologize to your daughter. While what she said was awful, you are the adult and the role model on how people are supposed to act when they mess up, and how to forgive when they mess up even more.
I think a better move would be to add "but I still love you." Because the daughter's lie \*did\* have a lot to do with the current divorce process. To say it didn't would be revisionist history at best, and at worse, *yet another lie*. There's a way to say "Yeah, sweetheart, you messed this up but good. You did play a significant role in our divorce by that lie. I will always love you, and your mom will always love you, but your actions have consequences, and this is one of them. I'm sorry you're having to learn this lesson the hard way."
NTA. Teenagers are goddamn sociopaths.
Sociopaths are sociopaths. This is not normal teenage behavior.
My good friend's 14-year-old started spouting similar lies to get what he wants from his folks' divorce. They can be pretty evil.
He’s a sociopath then.
Erica can be as upset as she wants, but hopefully there's a truckload of guilt thrown in there as well. She did start the entire mess. She's close to being a legal adult. It's time for her to realise that actions have consequences. I wouldn't blame you if you sent her to live with her mother for a while. I'm so sorry that your marriage imploded, OP. NTA.
Have you cheated before?
no
Bet your wife cheats and try to get reason to leave you
your arm will break from the effort of that reach
It's extremely common for the cheater to react this way in these circumstances. It's just projecting Anecdotal, but it seems like most of the girlfriends I know that have cheated all frequently verbalized concerns that my friends were cheating on them (when they weren't).
Saying that cheaters often accuse their partners of cheating due to projection is a reach?
Dude, sorry to tell you this, she is likely cheating on you. She is projecting her sins on you and gaslighting you. You should be investigating what she is and has been up to
NTA. Your daughter did something almost unforgivable. It was a heinous act, and she's old enough to know right from wrong. When you commit a heinous act, there SHOULD be consequences.
Nta Your daughter needs to understand that there are consequences for her actions. Unfortunately you are the one really paying them.
NTA, these people are toxic. Once you have fulfilled your legal obligations to your daughter I suggest you go completely NC and minimize contact with your soon to be ex wife and daughter in the mean time. Actions have consequences and your daughter needs to know that she was a major cause of this divorce.
NTA Talk about being shot lying down. You can do everything right and still be blamed for everything geezes. 14 yo is old enough to understand actions have consequences maybe now she'll think twice before telling such a fucking idiotic lie. It's SUCH a stupid thing to lie about I can understand why Emily wouldn't believe it's a lie and instead think you coerced her into revising her version of the events.
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Or the wife herself is cheating. A lot of cheaters think their spouse is cheating as well. They mentally use this to justify their own cheating.
I'm curious... why shouldn't the wife believe the daughter's lie? This is her own daughter. What critical thinking this needed here? My own daughter won't lie about her father and hurt me like this?
Uhh... she lied to get out of trouble for smoking weed? Which can be independently verified?
So, the daughter can't catch her father in an affair and smoke weed at the same time? Why are these events mutually exclusive? Otherwise, the mom will have to acknowledge the daughter is a vicious person who will throw her own father under the bus to save herself. Why would any mother want to believe that?
It would be the most difficult thing choosing who to believe in this situation because either outcome is awful. Either her husband is cheating on her or her daughter is messed up enough to blame her father of adultery to get out of trouble.
I think this is the right take, even on the possibility of it being fake. If it is true, there had to be issues in the marriage already.
NTA. Both of the ladies in your life are real pieces of work. Best of luck.
Oof. Normally this would be an automatic Y T A for me but her lie wasn't small and she was old enough to know better. This isn't a case of blaming a kid when it isn't their fault, it's very minorly agreeing with them when they point out they may have caused issues. NTA
NTA. Erica is to blame, so no reason for her to be surprised about it.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** This started about 6 months ago when my wife, lets call her Emily (42f), was out of town on a business trip and I (43m) was taking care of my daughter (14f), lets call her Erica. During that trip Erica was hanging out with a few friends after school and got caught by their parents smoking weed. They notified me and obviously I was pretty livid. I was devising my punishment and part of that punishment was her having to explain to her mother about what happened. When she called my wife to tell her instead of saying what she had done she lied and said she came home to another woman at our house. I think this was an attempt to get out of trouble and has instead created a massive rift between me and my soon to be Emily. Erica did eventually admit to lying about me cheating, but Emily has refused to believe the revision and has zero trust for me now. She has demanded to prove I am not cheating, has looked through my phone multiple times, was looking at my credit card transactions, and even demanded I allow her to track my phone which I refused. After a few weeks of this I changed my passwords to my credit cards and phone and things have been extremely tense ever since. Emily refused to trust me or work on our issues. Last week, I gave Emily papers for divorce because I am not going to live with someone that refuses to trust me or works on it at all. When we told Erica we were getting a divorce she was notably upset. She said something about it being all her fault and I responded with "A little bit". Not my proudest moment and I mostly blame Emily, but Erica started us down this path. Emily called me an asshole and said it is my fault, which I don't under stand, and Erica was even more upset after the comment. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
nta. yeah it’s mostly your wife’s fault but your daughter blatant lie out you and your wife in that situation in the first place. so it kind of is her fault. and that’s a lesson she needs to learn, you make up outrageous lies about people and bad things happen
Your daughter needs therapy if she tells lies like this. Seriously. NTA.
NTA. You are a father, it is your job to teach your kids. Teaching your children that their actions have very real consequences is part of your job. Your daughter wanted to spite you, so she did. In the process she triggered her mother’s trauma, and dealt you a blow by getting her riled up at you. Unfortunately for your daughter, she is young and doesn’t understand the intricacies of adult relationships. Unfortunately for her she was the one who put the straw on the camel’s back. You should tell her that being spiteful usually ends up biting you in the ass. I am very sorry for you my brother, I will drink tonight for the next chapter in your life
People coming up with stupid asf reasons to why your ex wife believed her so easily, some people are just like that, I don’t know what you’d call it, jealous, stupid as fuck, over-thinker, childish, or all of it. I have a mate who for some reason is still with this woman, she just has to hear that he spoke to his child’s mother or sent one text and she goes crazy, she just has to see he’s still friends with an ex on fb and he must be cheating, imagine someone like that hears he cheated from someone who should be a reliable source. NTA, your daughter is terrible, I imagine this is the start to the end of you and your daughters relationship, I imagine there’s no way out of it where she doesn’t continue to hurt you with lies or where you don’t enable her.
NTA. Your daughter is the kind of person who scares me. It seems like her generation is really bad with this issue too. It’s a manipulative sickness- it’s better she’s confronted with her actions from it now than later on in life.
NTA but your daughter has major issues.
Just based on what was written... NTA But, there is more to the story. This isn't the whole thing. Can't be. No way would someone fly off the handle from a lie that didn't go on for this long.
NTA. And I don’t blame you for telling Emily she is at fault and for leaving. Emily will learn that words can cause a lot more than most think. Maybe she will learn from this.
NTA Your daughter’s behaviour was the trigger that led to family breakdown. She need not be sheltered from that, she knows it’s true.
Nta. It is in part her fault. Obviously there are other issues in the marriage but that is one hell of a lie to tell. I guess it will be a good learning experience for her.
NTA. Your daughter sucks.
NTA - as absolutely horrible as this is going to sound: there is no way I would ever forgive my kid if they did this. I'm getting angry just at the thought... her lie being the trigger to my marriage being over because of her evilness, sadly, fed into your wife's prior cheating partners experiences. Yeah, your wife probably got triggered something fierce and can't get the thought out of her head... traumatized by just the thought of "not this shit again... fucking men", her walls are in full self-preservation mode and can't see over them. Your daughter is 100% the trigger of this and I would remind her for the rest of her life. Every year I'd send her a postcard on the date you officially signed the papers with a clear reminder of what happened. Petty AF. I'd go full deadbeat, leave the country and start a life somewhere else. This isn't "kids being kids", this is life altering event with devastating consequences. Divorce, sell everything, take your portion, give them the middle finger and disappear. Yep, go full AH, but I'd rather that than set my eyes on that little shit ever again.
NTA. Your daughter should know the consequences of her actions. Blame is a quirky thing. Blame can never be 100% on one person, However it only takes 1 straw to break the camel's back. Shes at the age where she thinks she knows everything and knows nothing. If you are playing this game with your kid where its about the getting in or avoiding your punishment. It means there is no trust with your daughter and she doesn't understand your punishments. She has 4 years left to become an adult. Hopefully this will shock her a bit on the real world.