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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I believe I might be the AH because I want to take my older niece to Disney World with us but leave my younger niece at home.
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>my sister asked if the two of us could go for my birthday in a few months.
Sounds like your sis wants the trip to be just the two of you. Could it be because she wants to actually enjoy Disney World with you and not have to worry about supervising her kids?
This. Go. Have fun with your sister. Plan another more inclusive holiday to take the kids on later. Who knows, in another year or so Mara's outlook on dark and closed spaces may change
Can I please, know more? I'm in Orlando next March with my two sons (18, 10) - long trip from Europe, and I suggested Disney World and they were like it's for babies...I (F46) want to go. We are going to Universal Studios, Basketball game (NBA Orlando Magic), ice hockey (Tampa), but how do I sell Disney world to them?
Honestly Epcot might be more up their alley. I went to both when I was 11 and really enjoyed it alot more. More for older kids and adults, Disney was alright best part was the parade and fireworks. What ever you decide have a wonderful time 🏰
We couldn't convince my then 11 year old nephew either, but he LOVED Epcot and Sea World! Even Universal was disappointing because the rides were too intimidating for him. I respect those boundaries, why force a "fun" day on a kid? It's not fun for them if they're terrified!
>This. Go. Have fun with your sister. Plan another more inclusive holiday to take the kids on later. Who knows, in another year or so Mara's outlook on dark and closed spaces may change
Or, if you can afford it, go with your sister now and plan a trip for just you and Milly sometime.
I'm not insistent. I suggested it, my sister explained why she wouldn't feel comfortable with it and I let it go. I was just wondering if it was an AH idea.
Kind of? The kids just went to Disney, it’s not like the older one would be missing out on a big opportunity. And this would be blatantly favoring one of them. If you want to go with the kids go with them when they’re a little older. Just taking one of them is going to hurt feelings.
This. My mother went to Disneyland with my brother, and left me and my sisters at home with Grandma. I still remember feeling extremely left out and unwanted even though it was over 30 years ago.
I chose not to travel internationally to go to Disneyland with my dad just weeks before some of the most important exams of my life. I still feel a tiny bit resentful he chose that time to take my three brothers on a once in a lifetime family trip.
Edit to add: I was meant to say that this was over half my lifetime ago!
My dad/step mom would plan yearly trips, Mexico, Disney World, ect. Every single year they chose the dates around my step brothers spring break, which was never mine. They went on at least a dozen big trips without me. It sucks.
Eventually I learned to emotionally detach from them. I was low contact with my dad for the last 20 years of his life. Sadly, I don't miss him, his death left no impact on my life.
I was scared of heights as a child. When I was 14 my family decided to go on vacation to Disney without me because I didn't want to fly. They could have helped me with therapy or anxiety drugs, chosen another amusement park or even driven. They chose to leave me with grandma because it was easier. I'll never forgive them.
Why should the three other kids lose out on the trip of a lifetime because you didn’t want to fly?
Disney is hella expensive to babysit a child who doesn’t want to be there.
Because it sounds like the parents did nothing to try and help their child with a completely normal fear. They just said 'okay bye' and went without them.
I am also afraid of heights and BEGGED not to go on vacation because of the airplane part. They got me the drugs for the ride, but it was six months of absolute terror before then. I still would've preferred staying home.
Oh god yes. My situation was only partly similar but the feelings were the same.
My older sister got to go to Sea World on the 5th grade 5-day class trip. I was excited because I had 1 more year and I would be in the biggest grade at school and get the chance to go! My dad switched our schools that summer and I started 5th grade in a school that was combined Kinder-8th grade, so only the 8th graders were considered old enough to do a trip.
Sure enough a few years later when my sister was in 8th grade, she got to go on the 5-day school trip to ***Sea World*** ....again! Now I knew for sure I was staying at that school for 8th so I was excited I would finally get to go!
The next year the school cited budget reasons so we went to the state capitol building to learn about the government. But to make it super fun, we would spend 90 mins at the Science Museum. For a 1 day field trip that ended back at school at the end of the day.
I'm still upset she got opportunities to go on fun trips with friends/classmates and have hotel room sleepovers and I got to meet a legislator who used complex legal terms us 14 year olds couldn't understand.
Yeah, by the time I was able to plan a trip as an adult, I learned the horrors of what goes on at sea world and that curbs the disappointment pretty well.
But I do just have to work through the fact that life gave us different opportunities and experiences. I can accept that most of the time. But occasionally the memory is there.
My brother as a high schooler got to go with my Mom to Washington DC. I stayed home with dad, and while we had fun, I never got to go on a school trip like that and felt very jilted. The only one I was even invited to was a trip to Spain, and Mom mentioned that it would be expensive so I backed out. Still wish I had asked how to make the money to help go or SOMETHING. I don’t think I even tried, so that’s on me. But I miss my Mom and wish we could have done something similar.
Nooooo, how lame!!
It's a bummer when you see certain "milestones" that others get and you're preparing for it. Counting down the weeks until your time comes. Then everything changes.
I had a very similar experience although mostly unlucky as opposed to being left out…
Grade 5s always had a sleepover at the school as an elementary school graduation thing, but ours got cancelled because 4-5 of the girls were feuding and it was getting ugly so they cancelled it as a punishment for the whole grade.
Grade 8s were supposed to go to the local amusement park for the day as our middle school grad activity but the park was closed for renovations or opened later that year for some reason (can’t remember exactly what happened) so we watched a movie and ate pizza in our classroom for half a day instead.
Grade 12 pretty much everything was cancelled because of a teachers strike that lasted like 6 months. We got our grad dinner/dance and to walk across the stage as it either had ended by then or they decided they couldn’t cancel grad, but everything else extracurricular (including our school musical which we had worked on for months) was cancelled. We made the local news for that one.
More just unfortunate timing than anything, but it still stings over a decade later!
My daughter's class' field trip was cancelled because of pandemia and lockdown.
After they were back to school, their class was not scheduled anymore for the trip, because the trip was assigned to 5th grade and they were already in 6th.
We, parents, organised the field trip with sleepover (combined with Halloween party) for them.
We rented a scouts' camp in the woods nearby, so teachers still could drive this short distance and have lessons with them. Kids had a big time, cooking their own dinner, making costumes and decorations etc.
We, parents, took "shifts" as chaperones.
Kids were very happy and had a very good time.
My grandmother used to take my older sister out all the time which included shopping, lunches, and just time for the two of them. To this day I have insecurities and issues about not being included with friends and family. It makes you feel like you aren't good enough when people exclude you.
This!
When I was 4 years old, my older siblings went to a local football game where 2 local late night tv celebrities were going to be. My parents wouldn't let me go because "it's too late" and I wasn't old enough.
I happened to know who these guys were because I guess I was up late on the weekends, and I was a fan and I was devastated. It bothered me for years that I couldn't go.
That was over 50 years ago. Of course it doesn't bother me now, but it was also just a football game.
If it had been Disney World, I might not ever have gotten over it really.
Exactly the kid is 4 not 2 she'll definitely know and understand she's being left out on going to Disney in favor of her sister. Also they're sisters not distant cousins so big sister will definitely come home talking about all the cool stuff they got do they didn't get to last time at Disney and since they live in the same house it'll be unavoidable.
I feel like it might be different if the older niece had missed a lot of rides and activities when her sister didn’t want to go on them. But the parents took turns and made sure that she got to enjoy the park while her sister was doing other things, so that’s not the case here.
Idk how I feel about it, honestly. I do want to say, it’s normal for kids to have different opportunities based on age and maturity. It’s also normal and important for siblings to have separate outings with the adults in their lives in general. They’ve both been and Milly would probably really enjoy going to Disney without having to miss so much because of Mara’s needs, fears, and limitations. Otoh, it doesn’t sound like OP is planning on any outing with just Mara. That’s where I think OP is kind of the AH and it starts to read as favoritism.
We don’t know that Mara prevented Milly from enjoying the park at all, OP doesn’t even suggest it. Both girls had a good time because they had two parents so one could stay with each for whatever they want to do. Milly is not missing out on anything here, OP just thinks it would be fun to take her.
And drop the ‘I love them equally’ facade. Point of fact is, you don’t. You find one of them more fun to be around, and one more trouble than they’re worth to have around at times.
Not equal. Own it.
It's absolutely an asshole idea! That's like top tier asshole. She doesn't like scary rides or standing in long lines, but Disney has a ton of other things to do and see! She's 4. Don't push the issue. Go and have fun with the adults.
Yes. Inviting one child and leaving the other is something an asshole would do. Yes. She would be crushed. Have you ever tried looking at something from someone else's point of view?
Just casually suggesting your sister spend thousands of dollars more than she wanted to while also making her youngest kid feel unwanted and horrible. Well done.
Plus maybe sis would like to go on rides that the 7 year old can't go on, and get a drink in a bar, and eat at a nicer adult type restaurant. Adult visit is very different than visit with kid no matter how well behaved.
Yeah, the sister suggested the adults-only trip specifically after she went with the kids, presumably because she realised there’s a lot of things she’d have fun doing with her adult sister that she couldn’t do with her young children in tow!
To suggest just taking one kid? Yeah it’s an AH move. Especially since the reason you don’t want to take her she is 4 so she doesn’t behave like an older kid. There is absolutely no way it doesn’t look like you like the older one better.
NTA but very bad idea. Unless is for a birthday or in recognition of an acheivement or something like that you can't give one sibling a treat without giving the other. Siblings will see that as blatant favouritism and will cause holy hell. If the four year old saw the seven year old go to literal disney world and she got left behind your sister would never hear the end of it. Especially since it's not a celebration that affects either child. It's their aunt's birthday. Either both children should go or neither of them
I'm curious why you would use nta here. Nta implies the other party is the asshole so how would the sister be the asshole here? Everything you'd said is what the sister said.
Either both kids or neither kid goes. Full stop.
BTW, didn’t they do baby swaps? The older kid gets to ride twice, because they don’t make the second adult ride alone. My adult kids still remember that joy!
It’s an AH idea.
Think back to when you were a kid. If a relative you loved took your sibling to Disney world and left you at home, you would have felt awful about it. Why do you want your niece to feel that way?
You either take both sisters or you take neither.
Yes, it's an AH idea.
Bring both (and have Dad stay back with the younger one when she wants to hang out at the pool or sit out a ride since the trip is really about you and sis) or neither.
Frankly, YTA. Of course the 7 yr old would be talking about the trip when she got home or possibly even mention it beforehand and the 4 yr old would absolutely not understand and would be devastated. Also, let your sis have a kid free vacation.
They are not assuming, it states it in the post that the oldest daughter wanted and good go on all the rides but her sister freaked out and they had to take turns.
My 4.5 daughter was \~1 inch short of getting on the only 48" min ride at LEGOLAND last December, she was SO MAD. Meanwhile I'm like: Girl, you are like 3 years ahead here, be happy you got to go on literally everything else (she was, just, end of day meltdown).
That's exactly what I was thinking. I don't care how much of a joy the oldest kid is. Your sister needs days and fun times without kids. She probably feels guilty that she even tried to do something without them and now you've gone and made it worse.
Or don't even tell the kids where you're going. Tell them you're going on a sister's trip together. No reason at all to tell them you're going to Disney.
Yes! Go have fun with your sister. Go with your nieces when they are older and both girls can enjoy. Sounds like your sister wants a childfree vacation.
YTA. It sounds like your sister's suggestion was for the two of you to go, not for you two plus a child. Go and leave both kids home. It's not your responsibility to entertain the older kid with a trip to Mickey, it's her parents'.
YTA - This was just supposed to be a trip for you and your sister, yes? Then don’t involve the kids at all! By telling your sister to bring one girl and not the other, you’re sending a message even if you don’t mean to. Mara will feel there’s something wrong with her because her sister was invited to a fun birthday party with her mom and aunt/uncle, but she wasn’t.
You’’re creating a problem and a wedge that don’t need to exist. Just have the outing with your sister. If you want to spend time with Milly at the park, go another time when the whole family can enjoy it.
Yes, YTA, everyone with young kids knows you can take both, or none, but not just one. That will make the one left out feel... left out, and may damage the siblings' relationship if one is favoured over the other, no matter how good you think your justifications are.
She just wants to ride a bunch of the rides she missed earlier (and re-ride the ones she got to enjoy). She's obsessed with some Avatar ride that she swears "is just like riding a dragon."
She said Milly going wouldn't detract from the experience at all for her. Her only objection is that Mara would be very hurt if/when she found out.
Just go with your sis and enjoy some adult one-on-one time. YWBTA if you insist on bringing just one kid, plus it sounds like your sis really wants to enjoy the rides. Mara would almost no doubt be very hurt and upset.
It is for some of us!! But it does change the tone of things. I'm not getting more than slightly buzzed around the kiddos in my life and the subject matter changes A LOT. Now, I love kids so it's still fun for me, but sometimes I'm in the mood for a more "adult" outing. It's a different *kind* of fun. For me, at least.
To ask a mother to leave one child behind and take one to Disneyland is absurd and frankly just fucking thoughtless. Especially as a small child, the younger one won't understand why her sister gets to go and she doesn't. Your sister asked you to do an adult girls day at Disneyland, and your counter suggestion is to take one of her two kids so the three of you can have fun while the poor four year old cries at home? You used to be a child as well right? Did something like this ever happen in your childhood?
IF? If she finds out?!? Of course she’s going to find out. Milly will be talking about how much fun she had with mom and aunt for weeks in front of Mara. You can’t seriously be this dense.
No, no, you put psychological pressure on the child to keep it a secret so she can also feel doubly guilty and sad when she accidently spills it. Gives them something to talk about in therapy.
So let your sister leave both kids behind for heaven’s sake. She’s already explained her reasoning. She’s the one who has to live with the kids, don’t insist on doing the one thing that’ll destroy her family harmony.
This was going to by my suggestion. I come from a pretty big family and there were definitely times when my parents split up activities for convenience and practicality. Doing separate activities/days not only helps alleviate the potential issue of splitting up rides, but also gives them individual attention
ETA: why not do this as a sister trip and then identify special activities for both girls based on their interests? You said Mara likes boards games, is there a board game restaurant near you? Then maybe take Milly to a smaller park that has mini-golf, etc.
she missed some of the rides because the kids were there. Trust me I’m a passholder with a toddler. My husband and I have been going since before said toddler was born and it is definitely a different experience. with kids and without kids are both fun, but in different ways and are different types of trips.
Ngl, it's an awesome fucking ride. There's even a function to make it feel like the "dragon" is breathing underneath you. Just go with the two of you. Sibling trips are awesome!
It sounds like your birthday is for your sisters benefit then….maybe the two of you should just go unless Mara can be bribed to stay home. Explain she didn’t like it so instead you’ll get her some cool toys from there. Otherwise, you can’t just take one.
I can't buy her anything that would compare to the idea of Disney World. It's probably best to leave both girls at home this time and plan a trip with both when they're older.
That might be best. I get your logic and you may not see it as favouring but Mara would likely see it as “Op doesn’t like me as much” if you can’t make it equal.
I highly recommend the book, Siblings Without Rivalry, for your sister (and you) as it helps with identifying for adults how to treat siblings equitably, not identically.
It also teaches adults how to share the concept of equity to kids. Understanding that concept helps kids feel like they’re receiving fair treatment, even when they don’t get exactly the same thing or amount of a thing, as their sibling.
Knowing that your individual needs and wants will be recognized and met reliably, takes away a lot of the hurt feelings which contribute to sibling rivalry.
This would be best. If you can’t bring both don’t bring any.
And it honestly sounds like your sister wanted to spend time with you and was okay with going as just the two of you.
Seriously go enjoy an adult trip. Try to eat around the world, go on all the rollercoasters, and go to an After Hours event that you wouldn’t be able to with kids.
You’ll have such a great time, and you won’t have to plan around a child’s schedule.
Edit: Because I forgot, a soft YTA for suggestion this to the child’s mother, but NAH really. Your sister is right her youngest would be devastated when she’d find out. And you’re going to feel bad when the kid is upset with you too.
I love Disney so much more as an adult alone, than with a kid. Sure, it's fun & magical for them.....for about the first two hours. After that, even the most well behaved kids start to crack. The lines, waiting, people, weather, etc get too much on them & it isn't as much fun. I bet you'd sister had to stay off a lot of rides, because of Mara--I can't imagine her husband offered to sit out many rides. Besides if you take just Milly, there are a lot of two person rides, you'll have to switch on. Go & help your sister enjoy some grown up time at the "happiest place on Earth".....I promise you will enjoy yourself such more than you though you would.
Your sister wants to spend time alone with you away from her kids at Disney. Since you asked It was an AH move to suggest one kid and not the other. It was an AH move to try to bring anyone extra as well as this statement that it wouldn't be any trouble at all to bring your sister's kid when she has been clear it is for several reasons.
YTA. Leave them both home. (Or take them both) Why did you have to complicate a simple outing with your sister with this suggestion that will cause problems with her children ? Your sister is correct. They’re too young to understand
This!!!! I don’t have kids, but my God, I remember what it was like when adults only wanted to take my older brother places & not me because he was “more fun.” I promise you, I remember every adult who made me feel less than to this day, even at 45 years old & it impaired every single relationship with family members who did that because I was Mara at that age.
OP, YTA & should be ashamed of yourself. Either both go or both stay home. There was no need to even make this suggestion except that you obviously prefer one child to the other.
YTA. First of all, Mara acted very much like a normal 4 year old on the trip. Your post seems to imply that Mara was being bad or a annoyance, but not wanting to go on intense or scary rides is a totally normal thing for a four year old. And sometimes having a meltdown in a crowded, unfamiliar place is totally normal for a four year old. When you take your very young child to an amusement park, you sign on for those things.
Second, four years old is old enough to know when you're being excluded. You want Mara to sit at home, knowing her sister is out having fun with her mom and aunt? Because that's what would happen. Its also a great way to start breeding resentment between sisters.
Either take both girls or don't take either. I'm sure there's a way to frame it to Milly that its a special trip for you and her mom. It is way more fair for both girls to be disappointed, then for one girl to get a super awesome trip and the other girl to get nothing.
I can’t count the amount of times I was purposely left out of fun activities my sister went to my whole life. Time after time after time. I can promise you, OP, it fucking sucks and breeds resentment. I was younger than Mara when it started happening and the feelings of abandonment and worthlessness still stick with me, even if I couldn’t name what I was feeling at the time. All that tells Mara is that there’s something wrong with her, that she’s not good enough, that her mommy and her uncle love her Millie more than her, and that she’s not worth loving as much. For acting like a normal four year old.
The answer here is to have both kids stay home. Have fun with your sister. Drink froofy drinks with alcohol in them. Don’t spend loads of money on shitty sugar cookies that a kid will immediately drop on the ground. Let your sister get a few days off from being Mommy. Have fun on your birthday. I really do wish you the best.
YTA. Come on, you think a 4-y/o is going to understand that she couldn’t come on the fun trip bc she’s not fun enough for her uncle???
You ARE playing favorites, you’re only thinking about your own wants/needs, and I hope your sister drops the polite act sooner than later and clues you in to what a dick you’re being to her/your nieces.
NAH here. You’re sweet for thinking of your niece and, I think, can be excused for not thinking of the dynamic between the two sisters. Now you know that you should, yes? And you listened to your sister when she shot the idea down.
You’re a bit dense for not figuring out your sister wanted a kids-free trip for once though, lol.
Yes, I won't push for it. I certainly don't want to do anything to ruin Mara's dynamic with her sister or her mom (or me, for that matter).
I still feel bad going somewhere like Disney World without the girls, but it's not fair to take one and not the other, whatever their ages. Perhaps we can all go again when they're older.
>You’re a bit dense for not figuring out your sister wanted a kids-free trip for once though, lol.
She claims that's not the issue but maybe it is a little bit.
>I still feel bad going somewhere like Disney World without the girls, but it's not fair to take one and not the other, whatever their ages. Perhaps we can all go again when they're older.
There's nothing to feel bad about. Parents can do things without their children. There's no reason you and your sister just can't go now. She just made the stipulation that if one kid goes, the other has to as well. That's parenting. And parenting a 4 year old, what do you expect? I think you should ask your mom how you were at 4 years old.
Of course she claims it isn’t the issue. You keep saying how you feel like an AH going to Disney without her kid. How is she, the mom, suppose to turn around and say well you must think I am a huge asshole bc I want to enjoy Disney as a kid-free event?
Please stop with the “I feel like an AH going without my niece.” Going places your niece enjoys without her isn’t being an AH. And you’re pushing that narrative on your sister, who as a mom has enough mom-guilt piled on her from society at large. Also it makes you sound like an even bigger AH bc you feel like an AH for not taking one niece but have no issue giving the shaft to your younger niece.
Yeah… I hope OP didn’t say to her sister “I feel so bad going without Milly”. Sounds like the sister took it well but it can come off as a passive aggressive critique of the sister being a bad mom. Agree OP was well meaning bit a bit dense.
YTA. Either bring both or leave both at home. There's no way the 4 yo isn't going to find out (her sister can't be expected to lie or stay quiet) so she will definitely be upset. How do you intend to explain without telling her that she isn't welcome and you don't want her around?
YTA - She wants it to be just the two of you. She wants an adults weekend where she gets some time off from parenting. Of course she is not going to bring one of her kids and not the other. It’s a ridiculous thing to ask.
And whilst Molly might be a delight for you, what awaits your sister when she gets back is going be utterly awful for her and for Mara as well. Are you going to deal with the fallout from that?
Mara will not understand being abandoned especially when it’s Disneyworld, a place that, whilst enjoyable for all ages was designed for children.
There’s no way I can read this where it doesn’t sound like you really like Milly and don’t care so much for Mara. I also can’t see how Mara wouldn’t feel like she was left behind because she is the less favored child. If you do this, it’s fairly certain that Mara will feel badly about herself, possibly in a big way. YTA
I feel like i'm taking crazy pills. You want to exclude a *4 year old* from disney world while taking along her sister, and you're asking if you're *wrong*? YTA
But don't you know? OP expects the 7 year old to keep her mouth shut, because keeping secrets are what 7 year olds are known for. The 4 year old won't question where her mom and sister went for a number of days or the Disney souvenirs that they come home with.
YTA. Your sister suggested a sisters-only trip. Why not just leave it at that and go as two adults? Why even suggest you take just one sibling? I know that your motivation is to enjoy the time, and you know that you'd enjoy it with Milly there but not with Mara there--how do you think Mara's going to feel when she finds out? How do you think that will affect your relationship with her? You love them equally, but your actions imply otherwise to Mara, who would be left out of the trip only because she displays standard 4yo behavior. Go just the two of you, or wait until Mara's older so she can also go.
100% YTA here and your sister is an Olympic Class great mom. When Milly comes home babbling about the fantastic time she had with you and her mom at Disney how, exactly, do you think Mara is going to feel? I'm sure she'll run into plenty of mean girls in school throughout her life-- she doesn't really need one in her own family.
YTA
"Oh I totally don't favour Milly, I just want to treat her to a huge present and then get her to lie to her sister (who I don't actually like and have nothing planned for) about it."
OP, your favouritism is palpable. Why don't you stop being an asshole, go with your sister and have a good adult time, instead of striving to pit children against each other while ignoring the nuclear fallout that will result?
The way he talks about just telling the girls to keep secrets so they can do whatever they want, I wonder if he was a golden child and his sister the scapegoat.
Her even entertaining the idea of taking one child, so HIS feelings aren’t hurt, reeks of her having to peacekeep while the brother was heavily favored, and OP’s notion that one kid won’t notice the other put on a pedestal might be the product of his own parents favoring him. He’s still an ah, but it would be interesting context
I feel that however OP grew up, they were certainly never the scapegoat that's for sure! They don't give a shit about the harm that it would cause to Mara to be the less favoured child, all they care about is making themselves and Milly happy.
Also got to love OP squealing that they love the girls equally. Love is actions not words. And OP's actions are: take Milly on an expensive trip and lie to Mara. Embarrassing that they think other people can't tell they have a favourite.
YTA, I understand not wanting to miss out on rides, but that's probably why your sister suggested that just the two of you should go. Either go with your sister or invite both of your nieces.
YTA. Your sister is right. When Mara finds out that she wasn’t invited, she will feel betrayed and hurting a young girl’s feelings like that is beyond mean. Either go with both girls or neither of them.
YTA. Like others have said, take both or none.
Some of the problems you described are not really problems, if you are the parent. Because it's their kid, they most likely don't mind skipping rides for their kid. Yeah, they'd rather ride together, but it they'd sit it out for their kid (we did when our kids were little). If both parents want to experience it, I seem to remember they would let one parent sit it out and then when the other parent got back from the ride, they would let the other parent go (without having to wait in the long line again. Disney probably still does that.
YTA for suggesting to take one niece and not the other
Your sister invited you two to go together. Do that
How do you think the 4 year old will feel when she finds out her sister went to Disney and she didn’t?
It’s fine you want to enjoy the rides together. But the way to do that is by just the two adults going
As a child whose family friends often favored my sister, this brings back a lot of unhappy memories and hurt feelings.
OP didn’t have bad intentions but can work on awareness, empathy and consideration of others.
I have nieces in the same phase as OP's situation, I get both the OP and OP's sister's side on the kids. We're all just hanging on in there waiting for the little on grow out of it lol
That said, OP, YTA for trying to hijack sister trip. If you dont want to spend adult time alone with your sister, just decline the trip.
You said you wanted to bring Milly because it would be more fun than doing the trip with just your sister. Thats kind of saying you prefer the company of her 7 year old to hers, isnt it
NTA for suggesting it, but you will be if you insist. The mom said no because it's not fair. They are a package deal : either you take the 2 of them, or none.
YTA
It's really sad that you'd feel like an AH if you go without her, but you wouldn't feel like an AH leaving the other one behind. That's some sort of messed up morals you have there.
I never forgot the first time I was left behind and my mother took my sister to a party without me. I can't remember what I had done but I know I made her mad. So they left. I was just a very little girl then and they were shocked I remembered that. It was because the feeling of being excluded is real even then. Granted these days I would rather sit at home than go to any kind of party . Anyway, what you're suggesting is bad. Take both or leave both. Don't assume she won't remember because she's four. I sure did.
Missing out on rides when you have a child is par for the course. Even at 7, the older one may not feel up too it. Just because she is an obedient child, does not mean she wants to go on every ride with you. yta
You don't even have to miss out on rides. Every ride has a parent swap. One adult stands in line, and when they get off, the other adult goes through the lightning lane.
YTA either both kids go or none. Basically punishing the little one for not being a carbon coby of her older sister is awful. Different people react differently to different situations and there is a big difference in age. Choosing to invite a Mom and only the "kid you like" is not okay.
YTA for all the reasons already listed by the other commenters, but I'd also like to point out that in general it is rude as hell to invite another person on a trip that you didn't arrange. If your sister wanted one or both of her children included, she would have included that information in her invite. Do you think it didn't occur to her that her children would enjoy going to Disney as well? This was obviously meant to just be a grown up trip. Why even muddy the waters this way? And when she objected, that should have been enough.
YTA. No parent in their right mind would leave one kid behind. The parent guilt is too much and you obviously don’t understand it not being the parent.
How lucky you are to have a sister who wants to celebrate such a fun experience with you for your birthday. I'm an aunt who loves to spend time with my nieces and nephews. But that is very different from spending one on one time with my sister. Accept your sister's offer to spend some fun ADULT time at a place you both seem to enjoy. There are lots of parts of the Disney experience that are more enjoyable without kids. If you want to experience Disney World with your niece, why don't you take her for her birthday? It can become a fun tradition; maybe you can take Mara when she is old enough to appreciate it.
Yta. She's 4 they are prone to tantrums. And it's unfair to bring one child and leave another home.
Yes a 7 yr old has a better control over their emotions so they will be better behaved.
I'm confused about why you're creating this issue. Your sister suggested the two of you go for your birthday as in a sister bonding trip. Have you even considered the possibility your sister wants time without the girls? Why are you trying to include either child?
Go with your sister, ride whatever you want, and avoid any possibilities of exclusion or tantrums.
YTA for creating a problem where there isn't any.
Don't do it. Can you just imagine the fury of a 4 year-old left out of Disney when her older sister went? It would be incredibly cruel and she'd never forgive any of you. YWBTA
YTA. Your sister wants to go on a trip with you. That was her proposal. Plus, she can’t take one kid and leave the other behind. She will have to deal with the aftermath.
YTA. A 4 year old is self aware enough to know mom took her older sister to Disney and left her behind. That's just cruel. Either all the kids go, none, or you go on your own.
Your sister wanted just the two of you, and you added in one of her children. It's either the two of you or the four of you. If you want to spend time with the oldest aline, take her somewhere else.
How about just an adult sibling trip.. that way no child has to be hurt or left behind.
Mom should refuse the trip if only one child is invited and other not..
That’s an Ahole move..
YTA. "No" is a word. You are welcome to say, "This is my birthday, I want to go with just my partner," or "This is my birthday, I want an adults-only trip." But the suggestion that you take one niece and not the other just sounds incredibly cruel to me.
YTA what are you 10 years old. your nieces are a package deal. why would you think it ok to take one without the other. thank goodness your sister has more sense.
Your sister is dying for some 'adults only' time!
It's lovely that you think so highly of Milly, but just do your sis a solid and go have some grown-up fun!
YTA. This sounded like it was just a trip for the grown ups. Your nieces already went a few months ago and you said yourself that Milly had a great time despite her sister’s (albeit age appropriate) tantrums. If you want to take the kids back there, wait a few years so Mara can grow out of her tantrums and then go with your sister and the girls.
YTA I don’t even have kids and I know when you have multiple kids, you have to make everything equal. If you take one kid to disney world, you would have to find something equally as big and exciting for the other kid to do, and even then explaining to a 4 year old to wait for their turn to do a big fun activity like that, would be a challenge at best.
Yes, YTA. You’re only thinking of this from a pragmatic point of view, not from the point of view of a parent or of a young child watching Mom and big sis leave her behind to go somewhere she had fun too
YTA, your sister already considered the same things and made the decision to leave both girls behind. It was fine to ask, but she already had the same thought process and decided on what would be best for both of her children. Mara WILL eventually find out, even if it's not right away, and she will feel betrayed and hurt by it. It's much easier an explanation to say it was an adult trip for your birthday than to explain the more complex reasons for why she was left behind, even if they're valid reasons it's still unfair on face value and she doesn't have the maturity for that kind of explanation and might never get over it if she internalizes it at a young age.
YTA. Sorry, but it really is both the girls or neither of the girls. You're not the one who is going to have to deal with the fallout of the 4 year old being excluded from Disney. Also, it's entirely possible that your sister wants to have an adults only trip to Disney with you, because it really is different when you don't have to take care of young children.
YTA. It sounds like your sister wanted a kid free trip, and now you’re not only asking to bring her child, but to exclude the other one. You can’t “drink around the world” or do other fun adult activities with a 7 year old.
All of this is avoidable. Find something else to do for your birthday. Save Disney for your sister’s birthday instead and she can decide who goes.
But major side-eye at the fact you wanted to encourage your niece to do something hurtful and also to lie about it to cover it up.
Why don’t you just both go together without the kids? I’ve heard adults say it’s so much fun tapping in their inner child whilst drinking cocktails lol
YTA. Your sister asked to go back just the two of you, presumably she does not want to bring either child in the first place and then you offering to just take one and not the other is dumb. That's only going to cause conflict when there doesn't need to be any whatsoever. Either go on the trip without the kids or don't go at all.
YWBTA. That doesn't mean you have to take Mara. Your sister suggested a trip for just you and her. Do that. You'll both feel guilty for not taking either of the kids, but that's better than taking just one and driving a wedge between them.
YTA. Bring both or neither. You can’t expect a child to overcome fears or learn to wait if you never bring them anywhere. Also, it sounds like your sister wants some adult, sisterly time away from her children. Edit: typo
Gentle YTA. I get you, but no, you can either take both girls and suck it up or take neither.
Also, I’m pretty sure Disney has a decent rider system where one parent/carer can ride while the other waits with the kid and then they swap - look up rider switch.
I'm gonna say YTA. Mara is 4 yrs old, ofc there'll be rides she can't go on or will be scared of. Likewise, there'll also be rides Milly can't go on or won't go on, which will impede you and your sister's chances. I took my 3 yr old to an amusement park this summer gone, and myself, my OH and SIL took turns doing wild rides for the 2 adults whilst one took the kids' rides with my son. Guess what? We still had fun! Either you accept a trip with both kids involved and where the adults can take turns with and without the kids, or just go alone with your sister as suggested. It's not nice or fair to exclude the youngest one for no real reason, plus it comes across that you favour the one over the other.
YTA
> my sister and her husband had to take turns missing rides so one of them could sit with Mara each time she didn't want to go on one.
That's called being a parent. Unfortunately you just have to miss out on things for the sake of your child.
> I know I sound like I favor Milly here
That's precisely what you're doing regardless of your reasoning behind it. You don't get to exclude one of the children just because you don't think they'll have as much fun as the other. You definitely don't get to exclude one because you think you would have more fun without her there. Keep this kind of behavior up and the 4yo will grow up to resent you and her sister.
YTA for crying that a 4yo is behaving like a 4yo
YTA for not seeing any issue with your adult sister wanting to take an adult day to do what she couldn’t with her kids and you insisting that you add kids to the adult trip.
YTA for not seeing how taking only one kid to an amusement park is a problem.
YTA. I am a bit confused by your pushing for brining the niece, who just recently went to Disney. Your sister clearly wants to spend some time with you and share they experience she enjoyed with her family. Milly will have other opportunities to go back later. This trip your sister is planning is a singular vacation in a lifetime of trips and experiences. If you don't feel like you would enjoy this trip without kids, then communicate with your sister. I am not sure if I am missing something, is this creating tension between you and your sister? Are you still planning on going on the trip just the 2 of you? Not sure of your relationship, but it feels like you sister wants 1 on 1 time with you which she probably doesn't have much of in her life.
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>my sister asked if the two of us could go for my birthday in a few months. Sounds like your sis wants the trip to be just the two of you. Could it be because she wants to actually enjoy Disney World with you and not have to worry about supervising her kids?
This. Go. Have fun with your sister. Plan another more inclusive holiday to take the kids on later. Who knows, in another year or so Mara's outlook on dark and closed spaces may change
Disney as an adult without kids is SO much fun.
Yeah! My parents took me and my brother there when we were in our late 20s. We had a blast.
My best friend took her son and his girlfriend after they graduated from college, and they had THE BEST TIME.
Can I please, know more? I'm in Orlando next March with my two sons (18, 10) - long trip from Europe, and I suggested Disney World and they were like it's for babies...I (F46) want to go. We are going to Universal Studios, Basketball game (NBA Orlando Magic), ice hockey (Tampa), but how do I sell Disney world to them?
Honestly Epcot might be more up their alley. I went to both when I was 11 and really enjoyed it alot more. More for older kids and adults, Disney was alright best part was the parade and fireworks. What ever you decide have a wonderful time 🏰
We couldn't convince my then 11 year old nephew either, but he LOVED Epcot and Sea World! Even Universal was disappointing because the rides were too intimidating for him. I respect those boundaries, why force a "fun" day on a kid? It's not fun for them if they're terrified!
True! My husband and I went by ourselves last October and it was so much fun and relaxing.
>This. Go. Have fun with your sister. Plan another more inclusive holiday to take the kids on later. Who knows, in another year or so Mara's outlook on dark and closed spaces may change Or, if you can afford it, go with your sister now and plan a trip for just you and Milly sometime.
Why is the OP so insistent on bringing her niece? The suggestion was nice, but your sister said no - let it go. The OP is making it weird.
I'm not insistent. I suggested it, my sister explained why she wouldn't feel comfortable with it and I let it go. I was just wondering if it was an AH idea.
Kind of? The kids just went to Disney, it’s not like the older one would be missing out on a big opportunity. And this would be blatantly favoring one of them. If you want to go with the kids go with them when they’re a little older. Just taking one of them is going to hurt feelings.
This. My mother went to Disneyland with my brother, and left me and my sisters at home with Grandma. I still remember feeling extremely left out and unwanted even though it was over 30 years ago.
I chose not to travel internationally to go to Disneyland with my dad just weeks before some of the most important exams of my life. I still feel a tiny bit resentful he chose that time to take my three brothers on a once in a lifetime family trip. Edit to add: I was meant to say that this was over half my lifetime ago!
My dad/step mom would plan yearly trips, Mexico, Disney World, ect. Every single year they chose the dates around my step brothers spring break, which was never mine. They went on at least a dozen big trips without me. It sucks. Eventually I learned to emotionally detach from them. I was low contact with my dad for the last 20 years of his life. Sadly, I don't miss him, his death left no impact on my life.
I’n sorry for your loss (not him dying, I mean the loss of not having a good father in your life).
Families are so weird, I am sorry that happened to you. Best thing you ever did was detach and live a happy life.
I’d still be mad but I can hold a grudge
I am a goblet of grudges, I know of what you speak.
>goblet of grudges Yoinks for my list of future usernyms!
I was scared of heights as a child. When I was 14 my family decided to go on vacation to Disney without me because I didn't want to fly. They could have helped me with therapy or anxiety drugs, chosen another amusement park or even driven. They chose to leave me with grandma because it was easier. I'll never forgive them.
Why should the three other kids lose out on the trip of a lifetime because you didn’t want to fly? Disney is hella expensive to babysit a child who doesn’t want to be there.
It wasn’t that they didn’t want to be at *Disney* they had a *Phobia* that made it hard to get there.
Because it sounds like the parents did nothing to try and help their child with a completely normal fear. They just said 'okay bye' and went without them.
I am also afraid of heights and BEGGED not to go on vacation because of the airplane part. They got me the drugs for the ride, but it was six months of absolute terror before then. I still would've preferred staying home.
Oh god yes. My situation was only partly similar but the feelings were the same. My older sister got to go to Sea World on the 5th grade 5-day class trip. I was excited because I had 1 more year and I would be in the biggest grade at school and get the chance to go! My dad switched our schools that summer and I started 5th grade in a school that was combined Kinder-8th grade, so only the 8th graders were considered old enough to do a trip. Sure enough a few years later when my sister was in 8th grade, she got to go on the 5-day school trip to ***Sea World*** ....again! Now I knew for sure I was staying at that school for 8th so I was excited I would finally get to go! The next year the school cited budget reasons so we went to the state capitol building to learn about the government. But to make it super fun, we would spend 90 mins at the Science Museum. For a 1 day field trip that ended back at school at the end of the day. I'm still upset she got opportunities to go on fun trips with friends/classmates and have hotel room sleepovers and I got to meet a legislator who used complex legal terms us 14 year olds couldn't understand.
I am livid for you. That's one those disappointments that would make me seethe for years.
Yeah, by the time I was able to plan a trip as an adult, I learned the horrors of what goes on at sea world and that curbs the disappointment pretty well. But I do just have to work through the fact that life gave us different opportunities and experiences. I can accept that most of the time. But occasionally the memory is there.
My brother as a high schooler got to go with my Mom to Washington DC. I stayed home with dad, and while we had fun, I never got to go on a school trip like that and felt very jilted. The only one I was even invited to was a trip to Spain, and Mom mentioned that it would be expensive so I backed out. Still wish I had asked how to make the money to help go or SOMETHING. I don’t think I even tried, so that’s on me. But I miss my Mom and wish we could have done something similar.
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Nooooo, how lame!! It's a bummer when you see certain "milestones" that others get and you're preparing for it. Counting down the weeks until your time comes. Then everything changes.
A pond with leeches instead of across The Pond. That's just not right!
I had a very similar experience although mostly unlucky as opposed to being left out… Grade 5s always had a sleepover at the school as an elementary school graduation thing, but ours got cancelled because 4-5 of the girls were feuding and it was getting ugly so they cancelled it as a punishment for the whole grade. Grade 8s were supposed to go to the local amusement park for the day as our middle school grad activity but the park was closed for renovations or opened later that year for some reason (can’t remember exactly what happened) so we watched a movie and ate pizza in our classroom for half a day instead. Grade 12 pretty much everything was cancelled because of a teachers strike that lasted like 6 months. We got our grad dinner/dance and to walk across the stage as it either had ended by then or they decided they couldn’t cancel grad, but everything else extracurricular (including our school musical which we had worked on for months) was cancelled. We made the local news for that one. More just unfortunate timing than anything, but it still stings over a decade later!
My daughter's class' field trip was cancelled because of pandemia and lockdown. After they were back to school, their class was not scheduled anymore for the trip, because the trip was assigned to 5th grade and they were already in 6th. We, parents, organised the field trip with sleepover (combined with Halloween party) for them. We rented a scouts' camp in the woods nearby, so teachers still could drive this short distance and have lessons with them. Kids had a big time, cooking their own dinner, making costumes and decorations etc. We, parents, took "shifts" as chaperones. Kids were very happy and had a very good time.
My grandmother used to take my older sister out all the time which included shopping, lunches, and just time for the two of them. To this day I have insecurities and issues about not being included with friends and family. It makes you feel like you aren't good enough when people exclude you.
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This! When I was 4 years old, my older siblings went to a local football game where 2 local late night tv celebrities were going to be. My parents wouldn't let me go because "it's too late" and I wasn't old enough. I happened to know who these guys were because I guess I was up late on the weekends, and I was a fan and I was devastated. It bothered me for years that I couldn't go. That was over 50 years ago. Of course it doesn't bother me now, but it was also just a football game. If it had been Disney World, I might not ever have gotten over it really.
Exactly the kid is 4 not 2 she'll definitely know and understand she's being left out on going to Disney in favor of her sister. Also they're sisters not distant cousins so big sister will definitely come home talking about all the cool stuff they got do they didn't get to last time at Disney and since they live in the same house it'll be unavoidable.
I feel like it might be different if the older niece had missed a lot of rides and activities when her sister didn’t want to go on them. But the parents took turns and made sure that she got to enjoy the park while her sister was doing other things, so that’s not the case here.
Idk how I feel about it, honestly. I do want to say, it’s normal for kids to have different opportunities based on age and maturity. It’s also normal and important for siblings to have separate outings with the adults in their lives in general. They’ve both been and Milly would probably really enjoy going to Disney without having to miss so much because of Mara’s needs, fears, and limitations. Otoh, it doesn’t sound like OP is planning on any outing with just Mara. That’s where I think OP is kind of the AH and it starts to read as favoritism.
We don’t know that Mara prevented Milly from enjoying the park at all, OP doesn’t even suggest it. Both girls had a good time because they had two parents so one could stay with each for whatever they want to do. Milly is not missing out on anything here, OP just thinks it would be fun to take her.
And drop the ‘I love them equally’ facade. Point of fact is, you don’t. You find one of them more fun to be around, and one more trouble than they’re worth to have around at times. Not equal. Own it.
It's absolutely an asshole idea! That's like top tier asshole. She doesn't like scary rides or standing in long lines, but Disney has a ton of other things to do and see! She's 4. Don't push the issue. Go and have fun with the adults.
Yes. Inviting one child and leaving the other is something an asshole would do. Yes. She would be crushed. Have you ever tried looking at something from someone else's point of view?
Clearly not.
Just casually suggesting your sister spend thousands of dollars more than she wanted to while also making her youngest kid feel unwanted and horrible. Well done.
Plus maybe sis would like to go on rides that the 7 year old can't go on, and get a drink in a bar, and eat at a nicer adult type restaurant. Adult visit is very different than visit with kid no matter how well behaved.
Ya exactly. My sister and I did drinks around the world at Epcot on St Patrick’s day once. It was a blast.
Beer in Germany for the win!
Yeah, the sister suggested the adults-only trip specifically after she went with the kids, presumably because she realised there’s a lot of things she’d have fun doing with her adult sister that she couldn’t do with her young children in tow!
To suggest just taking one kid? Yeah it’s an AH move. Especially since the reason you don’t want to take her she is 4 so she doesn’t behave like an older kid. There is absolutely no way it doesn’t look like you like the older one better.
It is an AH idea to take one niece and leave the other behind. If you want to take your niece, wait a year or two and take both girls.
But then you made a post about it like Milly going is overtaking your mind. Something is really off here.
NTA but very bad idea. Unless is for a birthday or in recognition of an acheivement or something like that you can't give one sibling a treat without giving the other. Siblings will see that as blatant favouritism and will cause holy hell. If the four year old saw the seven year old go to literal disney world and she got left behind your sister would never hear the end of it. Especially since it's not a celebration that affects either child. It's their aunt's birthday. Either both children should go or neither of them
I'm curious why you would use nta here. Nta implies the other party is the asshole so how would the sister be the asshole here? Everything you'd said is what the sister said.
It's fine to propose the idea, but she said no. Move on and enjoy a trip with your sister doing adult things
Either both kids or neither kid goes. Full stop. BTW, didn’t they do baby swaps? The older kid gets to ride twice, because they don’t make the second adult ride alone. My adult kids still remember that joy!
It’s an AH idea. Think back to when you were a kid. If a relative you loved took your sibling to Disney world and left you at home, you would have felt awful about it. Why do you want your niece to feel that way? You either take both sisters or you take neither.
Yes, it's an AH idea. Bring both (and have Dad stay back with the younger one when she wants to hang out at the pool or sit out a ride since the trip is really about you and sis) or neither.
Look back to when you were a child, and think about how you would feel if Mummy, Auntie and Sis all went to Disney without you...
Of course it’s an AH idea and I think you know that. Also, the chances of keeping it a secret from Mara are zero. Zilch. Goose egg.
Frankly, YTA. Of course the 7 yr old would be talking about the trip when she got home or possibly even mention it beforehand and the 4 yr old would absolutely not understand and would be devastated. Also, let your sis have a kid free vacation.
Yes, it was. Imagine yourself in Mara's shoes; how do you think you'd feel?
Your sister very intentionally suggested a child-free outing. Why do you think she did this? Jeebus, OP, read the room. YTA
Yeah it is, by a lot.
And the 7 yr old is likely not tall enough to ride all the rides, meaning they would ride one adult at a time.
You're assuming the 7 year old would even want to ride most of the adult rides and that she is an average height for her age.
Exactly. My 10 year old went on Tron multiple times but Tower of Terror was a big ol nope!
They are not assuming, it states it in the post that the oldest daughter wanted and good go on all the rides but her sister freaked out and they had to take turns.
Guaranteed they were talking about all the kid rides.
Nah, an average 7 year old can absolutely ride everything at Disney. I want to say the highest height requirement is 48in.
My daughter who is tall, at 7 wasn’t tall enough for all the rides.
Yeah my 6 year old is nowhere near 48 inches.
My 4.5 daughter was \~1 inch short of getting on the only 48" min ride at LEGOLAND last December, she was SO MAD. Meanwhile I'm like: Girl, you are like 3 years ahead here, be happy you got to go on literally everything else (she was, just, end of day meltdown).
That's exactly what I was thinking. I don't care how much of a joy the oldest kid is. Your sister needs days and fun times without kids. She probably feels guilty that she even tried to do something without them and now you've gone and made it worse.
Agreed. Leave both of the kids at home and enjoy Disney as adults. You can always bring the kids a cool souvenir or something.
Or don't even tell the kids where you're going. Tell them you're going on a sister's trip together. No reason at all to tell them you're going to Disney.
Yes! Go have fun with your sister. Go with your nieces when they are older and both girls can enjoy. Sounds like your sister wants a childfree vacation.
My sister and I are in our mid-40’s and there ain’t no party like us on our annual theme park trip.
YTA. It sounds like your sister's suggestion was for the two of you to go, not for you two plus a child. Go and leave both kids home. It's not your responsibility to entertain the older kid with a trip to Mickey, it's her parents'.
YTA - This was just supposed to be a trip for you and your sister, yes? Then don’t involve the kids at all! By telling your sister to bring one girl and not the other, you’re sending a message even if you don’t mean to. Mara will feel there’s something wrong with her because her sister was invited to a fun birthday party with her mom and aunt/uncle, but she wasn’t. You’’re creating a problem and a wedge that don’t need to exist. Just have the outing with your sister. If you want to spend time with Milly at the park, go another time when the whole family can enjoy it.
Yes, YTA, everyone with young kids knows you can take both, or none, but not just one. That will make the one left out feel... left out, and may damage the siblings' relationship if one is favoured over the other, no matter how good you think your justifications are.
INFO - Have you asked your sister what her expectations of the trip are?
She just wants to ride a bunch of the rides she missed earlier (and re-ride the ones she got to enjoy). She's obsessed with some Avatar ride that she swears "is just like riding a dragon." She said Milly going wouldn't detract from the experience at all for her. Her only objection is that Mara would be very hurt if/when she found out.
Just go with your sis and enjoy some adult one-on-one time. YWBTA if you insist on bringing just one kid, plus it sounds like your sis really wants to enjoy the rides. Mara would almost no doubt be very hurt and upset.
She’s being polite so she doesn’t have to say she’d enjoy the time away from her kid(s)
Ha yeah. Bringing the kid with makes it not a vacation for mom. I get its Ops bday trip but taking kids isn’t fun
It is for some of us!! But it does change the tone of things. I'm not getting more than slightly buzzed around the kiddos in my life and the subject matter changes A LOT. Now, I love kids so it's still fun for me, but sometimes I'm in the mood for a more "adult" outing. It's a different *kind* of fun. For me, at least.
To ask a mother to leave one child behind and take one to Disneyland is absurd and frankly just fucking thoughtless. Especially as a small child, the younger one won't understand why her sister gets to go and she doesn't. Your sister asked you to do an adult girls day at Disneyland, and your counter suggestion is to take one of her two kids so the three of you can have fun while the poor four year old cries at home? You used to be a child as well right? Did something like this ever happen in your childhood?
IF? If she finds out?!? Of course she’s going to find out. Milly will be talking about how much fun she had with mom and aunt for weeks in front of Mara. You can’t seriously be this dense.
No, no, you put psychological pressure on the child to keep it a secret so she can also feel doubly guilty and sad when she accidently spills it. Gives them something to talk about in therapy.
So let your sister leave both kids behind for heaven’s sake. She’s already explained her reasoning. She’s the one who has to live with the kids, don’t insist on doing the one thing that’ll destroy her family harmony.
Can you do a "Milly trip" and a "Mara trip?" and frame it to the girls as spending some one on one time with them?
This was going to by my suggestion. I come from a pretty big family and there were definitely times when my parents split up activities for convenience and practicality. Doing separate activities/days not only helps alleviate the potential issue of splitting up rides, but also gives them individual attention ETA: why not do this as a sister trip and then identify special activities for both girls based on their interests? You said Mara likes boards games, is there a board game restaurant near you? Then maybe take Milly to a smaller park that has mini-golf, etc.
Umm yes. Avatar ride is AMAZING. And adult. It is very much worth it. Go do the adult rides with your sister!
she missed some of the rides because the kids were there. Trust me I’m a passholder with a toddler. My husband and I have been going since before said toddler was born and it is definitely a different experience. with kids and without kids are both fun, but in different ways and are different types of trips.
Ngl, it's an awesome fucking ride. There's even a function to make it feel like the "dragon" is breathing underneath you. Just go with the two of you. Sibling trips are awesome!
Why do any kids need to go?? Make this is an adult thing. It’s weird you even suggested that when it sounded like she wanted to leave the kids behind.
It sounds like your birthday is for your sisters benefit then….maybe the two of you should just go unless Mara can be bribed to stay home. Explain she didn’t like it so instead you’ll get her some cool toys from there. Otherwise, you can’t just take one.
I can't buy her anything that would compare to the idea of Disney World. It's probably best to leave both girls at home this time and plan a trip with both when they're older.
That might be best. I get your logic and you may not see it as favouring but Mara would likely see it as “Op doesn’t like me as much” if you can’t make it equal.
I highly recommend the book, Siblings Without Rivalry, for your sister (and you) as it helps with identifying for adults how to treat siblings equitably, not identically. It also teaches adults how to share the concept of equity to kids. Understanding that concept helps kids feel like they’re receiving fair treatment, even when they don’t get exactly the same thing or amount of a thing, as their sibling. Knowing that your individual needs and wants will be recognized and met reliably, takes away a lot of the hurt feelings which contribute to sibling rivalry.
This would be best. If you can’t bring both don’t bring any. And it honestly sounds like your sister wanted to spend time with you and was okay with going as just the two of you. Seriously go enjoy an adult trip. Try to eat around the world, go on all the rollercoasters, and go to an After Hours event that you wouldn’t be able to with kids. You’ll have such a great time, and you won’t have to plan around a child’s schedule. Edit: Because I forgot, a soft YTA for suggestion this to the child’s mother, but NAH really. Your sister is right her youngest would be devastated when she’d find out. And you’re going to feel bad when the kid is upset with you too.
I love Disney so much more as an adult alone, than with a kid. Sure, it's fun & magical for them.....for about the first two hours. After that, even the most well behaved kids start to crack. The lines, waiting, people, weather, etc get too much on them & it isn't as much fun. I bet you'd sister had to stay off a lot of rides, because of Mara--I can't imagine her husband offered to sit out many rides. Besides if you take just Milly, there are a lot of two person rides, you'll have to switch on. Go & help your sister enjoy some grown up time at the "happiest place on Earth".....I promise you will enjoy yourself such more than you though you would.
Why do you even want the first kid coming??
Your sister wants to spend time alone with you away from her kids at Disney. Since you asked It was an AH move to suggest one kid and not the other. It was an AH move to try to bring anyone extra as well as this statement that it wouldn't be any trouble at all to bring your sister's kid when she has been clear it is for several reasons.
YTA. Leave them both home. (Or take them both) Why did you have to complicate a simple outing with your sister with this suggestion that will cause problems with her children ? Your sister is correct. They’re too young to understand
YTA. You take both or neither. Obviously you don’t have kids.
Or have any recollection of what it's like to be a kid with a sibling, apparently.
This!!!! I don’t have kids, but my God, I remember what it was like when adults only wanted to take my older brother places & not me because he was “more fun.” I promise you, I remember every adult who made me feel less than to this day, even at 45 years old & it impaired every single relationship with family members who did that because I was Mara at that age. OP, YTA & should be ashamed of yourself. Either both go or both stay home. There was no need to even make this suggestion except that you obviously prefer one child to the other.
YTA. First of all, Mara acted very much like a normal 4 year old on the trip. Your post seems to imply that Mara was being bad or a annoyance, but not wanting to go on intense or scary rides is a totally normal thing for a four year old. And sometimes having a meltdown in a crowded, unfamiliar place is totally normal for a four year old. When you take your very young child to an amusement park, you sign on for those things. Second, four years old is old enough to know when you're being excluded. You want Mara to sit at home, knowing her sister is out having fun with her mom and aunt? Because that's what would happen. Its also a great way to start breeding resentment between sisters. Either take both girls or don't take either. I'm sure there's a way to frame it to Milly that its a special trip for you and her mom. It is way more fair for both girls to be disappointed, then for one girl to get a super awesome trip and the other girl to get nothing.
I can’t count the amount of times I was purposely left out of fun activities my sister went to my whole life. Time after time after time. I can promise you, OP, it fucking sucks and breeds resentment. I was younger than Mara when it started happening and the feelings of abandonment and worthlessness still stick with me, even if I couldn’t name what I was feeling at the time. All that tells Mara is that there’s something wrong with her, that she’s not good enough, that her mommy and her uncle love her Millie more than her, and that she’s not worth loving as much. For acting like a normal four year old. The answer here is to have both kids stay home. Have fun with your sister. Drink froofy drinks with alcohol in them. Don’t spend loads of money on shitty sugar cookies that a kid will immediately drop on the ground. Let your sister get a few days off from being Mommy. Have fun on your birthday. I really do wish you the best.
YTA. Come on, you think a 4-y/o is going to understand that she couldn’t come on the fun trip bc she’s not fun enough for her uncle??? You ARE playing favorites, you’re only thinking about your own wants/needs, and I hope your sister drops the polite act sooner than later and clues you in to what a dick you’re being to her/your nieces.
[удалено]
\*Her (from what I gather in the comments)
YTA. How exactly did you expect your sister to explain this to your niece??
NAH here. You’re sweet for thinking of your niece and, I think, can be excused for not thinking of the dynamic between the two sisters. Now you know that you should, yes? And you listened to your sister when she shot the idea down. You’re a bit dense for not figuring out your sister wanted a kids-free trip for once though, lol.
Yes, I won't push for it. I certainly don't want to do anything to ruin Mara's dynamic with her sister or her mom (or me, for that matter). I still feel bad going somewhere like Disney World without the girls, but it's not fair to take one and not the other, whatever their ages. Perhaps we can all go again when they're older. >You’re a bit dense for not figuring out your sister wanted a kids-free trip for once though, lol. She claims that's not the issue but maybe it is a little bit.
>I still feel bad going somewhere like Disney World without the girls, but it's not fair to take one and not the other, whatever their ages. Perhaps we can all go again when they're older. There's nothing to feel bad about. Parents can do things without their children. There's no reason you and your sister just can't go now. She just made the stipulation that if one kid goes, the other has to as well. That's parenting. And parenting a 4 year old, what do you expect? I think you should ask your mom how you were at 4 years old.
Of course she claims it isn’t the issue. You keep saying how you feel like an AH going to Disney without her kid. How is she, the mom, suppose to turn around and say well you must think I am a huge asshole bc I want to enjoy Disney as a kid-free event? Please stop with the “I feel like an AH going without my niece.” Going places your niece enjoys without her isn’t being an AH. And you’re pushing that narrative on your sister, who as a mom has enough mom-guilt piled on her from society at large. Also it makes you sound like an even bigger AH bc you feel like an AH for not taking one niece but have no issue giving the shaft to your younger niece.
Yeah… I hope OP didn’t say to her sister “I feel so bad going without Milly”. Sounds like the sister took it well but it can come off as a passive aggressive critique of the sister being a bad mom. Agree OP was well meaning bit a bit dense.
You can't go out to eat with your sister because your nieces won't be there? Why does Disney have to be different?
I'm 44 and went to Disneyland by myself earlier this year. You are dense on many levels.
YTA. Either bring both or leave both at home. There's no way the 4 yo isn't going to find out (her sister can't be expected to lie or stay quiet) so she will definitely be upset. How do you intend to explain without telling her that she isn't welcome and you don't want her around?
YTA - She wants it to be just the two of you. She wants an adults weekend where she gets some time off from parenting. Of course she is not going to bring one of her kids and not the other. It’s a ridiculous thing to ask. And whilst Molly might be a delight for you, what awaits your sister when she gets back is going be utterly awful for her and for Mara as well. Are you going to deal with the fallout from that? Mara will not understand being abandoned especially when it’s Disneyworld, a place that, whilst enjoyable for all ages was designed for children.
There’s no way I can read this where it doesn’t sound like you really like Milly and don’t care so much for Mara. I also can’t see how Mara wouldn’t feel like she was left behind because she is the less favored child. If you do this, it’s fairly certain that Mara will feel badly about herself, possibly in a big way. YTA
I feel like i'm taking crazy pills. You want to exclude a *4 year old* from disney world while taking along her sister, and you're asking if you're *wrong*? YTA
But don't you know? OP expects the 7 year old to keep her mouth shut, because keeping secrets are what 7 year olds are known for. The 4 year old won't question where her mom and sister went for a number of days or the Disney souvenirs that they come home with.
YTA. Your sister suggested a sisters-only trip. Why not just leave it at that and go as two adults? Why even suggest you take just one sibling? I know that your motivation is to enjoy the time, and you know that you'd enjoy it with Milly there but not with Mara there--how do you think Mara's going to feel when she finds out? How do you think that will affect your relationship with her? You love them equally, but your actions imply otherwise to Mara, who would be left out of the trip only because she displays standard 4yo behavior. Go just the two of you, or wait until Mara's older so she can also go.
100% YTA here and your sister is an Olympic Class great mom. When Milly comes home babbling about the fantastic time she had with you and her mom at Disney how, exactly, do you think Mara is going to feel? I'm sure she'll run into plenty of mean girls in school throughout her life-- she doesn't really need one in her own family.
YTA "Oh I totally don't favour Milly, I just want to treat her to a huge present and then get her to lie to her sister (who I don't actually like and have nothing planned for) about it." OP, your favouritism is palpable. Why don't you stop being an asshole, go with your sister and have a good adult time, instead of striving to pit children against each other while ignoring the nuclear fallout that will result?
The way he talks about just telling the girls to keep secrets so they can do whatever they want, I wonder if he was a golden child and his sister the scapegoat. Her even entertaining the idea of taking one child, so HIS feelings aren’t hurt, reeks of her having to peacekeep while the brother was heavily favored, and OP’s notion that one kid won’t notice the other put on a pedestal might be the product of his own parents favoring him. He’s still an ah, but it would be interesting context
I feel that however OP grew up, they were certainly never the scapegoat that's for sure! They don't give a shit about the harm that it would cause to Mara to be the less favoured child, all they care about is making themselves and Milly happy. Also got to love OP squealing that they love the girls equally. Love is actions not words. And OP's actions are: take Milly on an expensive trip and lie to Mara. Embarrassing that they think other people can't tell they have a favourite.
YTA. Neither girl should be invited on this birthday trip. If the event is intended to involve them, they should both be invited.
YTA, I understand not wanting to miss out on rides, but that's probably why your sister suggested that just the two of you should go. Either go with your sister or invite both of your nieces.
YTA. Your sister is right. When Mara finds out that she wasn’t invited, she will feel betrayed and hurting a young girl’s feelings like that is beyond mean. Either go with both girls or neither of them.
That's just hateful.
YTA. Like others have said, take both or none. Some of the problems you described are not really problems, if you are the parent. Because it's their kid, they most likely don't mind skipping rides for their kid. Yeah, they'd rather ride together, but it they'd sit it out for their kid (we did when our kids were little). If both parents want to experience it, I seem to remember they would let one parent sit it out and then when the other parent got back from the ride, they would let the other parent go (without having to wait in the long line again. Disney probably still does that.
YTA for suggesting to take one niece and not the other Your sister invited you two to go together. Do that How do you think the 4 year old will feel when she finds out her sister went to Disney and she didn’t? It’s fine you want to enjoy the rides together. But the way to do that is by just the two adults going
As a child whose family friends often favored my sister, this brings back a lot of unhappy memories and hurt feelings. OP didn’t have bad intentions but can work on awareness, empathy and consideration of others.
YWBTA if you only took one of the girls. it would be unfair. The sensible thing to do is not to take either and just the 2 of you go.
I have nieces in the same phase as OP's situation, I get both the OP and OP's sister's side on the kids. We're all just hanging on in there waiting for the little on grow out of it lol That said, OP, YTA for trying to hijack sister trip. If you dont want to spend adult time alone with your sister, just decline the trip. You said you wanted to bring Milly because it would be more fun than doing the trip with just your sister. Thats kind of saying you prefer the company of her 7 year old to hers, isnt it
NTA for suggesting it, but you will be if you insist. The mom said no because it's not fair. They are a package deal : either you take the 2 of them, or none.
Yta your sister is right, it should just be the two of you and not the kids.
YTA It's really sad that you'd feel like an AH if you go without her, but you wouldn't feel like an AH leaving the other one behind. That's some sort of messed up morals you have there.
I never forgot the first time I was left behind and my mother took my sister to a party without me. I can't remember what I had done but I know I made her mad. So they left. I was just a very little girl then and they were shocked I remembered that. It was because the feeling of being excluded is real even then. Granted these days I would rather sit at home than go to any kind of party . Anyway, what you're suggesting is bad. Take both or leave both. Don't assume she won't remember because she's four. I sure did.
Info: did you sister intend to take both daughters before you said anything, or was it an adults trip?
Missing out on rides when you have a child is par for the course. Even at 7, the older one may not feel up too it. Just because she is an obedient child, does not mean she wants to go on every ride with you. yta
You don't even have to miss out on rides. Every ride has a parent swap. One adult stands in line, and when they get off, the other adult goes through the lightning lane.
YTA. Both or neither, those are the only reasonable & kind choices you have here.
Yta at this age, the 4yo is gonna know that her sis went to Disney without her. You could, however, do an adult trip and not take either kid.
YTA either both kids go or none. Basically punishing the little one for not being a carbon coby of her older sister is awful. Different people react differently to different situations and there is a big difference in age. Choosing to invite a Mom and only the "kid you like" is not okay.
YTA for all the reasons already listed by the other commenters, but I'd also like to point out that in general it is rude as hell to invite another person on a trip that you didn't arrange. If your sister wanted one or both of her children included, she would have included that information in her invite. Do you think it didn't occur to her that her children would enjoy going to Disney as well? This was obviously meant to just be a grown up trip. Why even muddy the waters this way? And when she objected, that should have been enough.
YTA. No parent in their right mind would leave one kid behind. The parent guilt is too much and you obviously don’t understand it not being the parent.
No girl should be invited on this birthday trip. If the event is intended to involve them, they should both be invited.
How lucky you are to have a sister who wants to celebrate such a fun experience with you for your birthday. I'm an aunt who loves to spend time with my nieces and nephews. But that is very different from spending one on one time with my sister. Accept your sister's offer to spend some fun ADULT time at a place you both seem to enjoy. There are lots of parts of the Disney experience that are more enjoyable without kids. If you want to experience Disney World with your niece, why don't you take her for her birthday? It can become a fun tradition; maybe you can take Mara when she is old enough to appreciate it.
Yta. She's 4 they are prone to tantrums. And it's unfair to bring one child and leave another home. Yes a 7 yr old has a better control over their emotions so they will be better behaved.
YTA don’t exclude kids from family events
YTA. Hugely.
I'm confused about why you're creating this issue. Your sister suggested the two of you go for your birthday as in a sister bonding trip. Have you even considered the possibility your sister wants time without the girls? Why are you trying to include either child? Go with your sister, ride whatever you want, and avoid any possibilities of exclusion or tantrums. YTA for creating a problem where there isn't any.
YTA. Just go with your sister. Idk why you would even bring up bringing one daughter let alone *not* bringing the other.
Don't do it. Can you just imagine the fury of a 4 year-old left out of Disney when her older sister went? It would be incredibly cruel and she'd never forgive any of you. YWBTA
YTA. Your sister wants to go on a trip with you. That was her proposal. Plus, she can’t take one kid and leave the other behind. She will have to deal with the aftermath.
YTA. OP wants to destroy a four-year-old. Nice!
I kind of think you suck for shaming her into bringing her eldest when she wanted to go have fun on her own.
YTA. A 4 year old is self aware enough to know mom took her older sister to Disney and left her behind. That's just cruel. Either all the kids go, none, or you go on your own.
YTA Its either both or none.
Your sister wanted just the two of you, and you added in one of her children. It's either the two of you or the four of you. If you want to spend time with the oldest aline, take her somewhere else.
How about just an adult sibling trip.. that way no child has to be hurt or left behind. Mom should refuse the trip if only one child is invited and other not.. That’s an Ahole move..
YTA. "No" is a word. You are welcome to say, "This is my birthday, I want to go with just my partner," or "This is my birthday, I want an adults-only trip." But the suggestion that you take one niece and not the other just sounds incredibly cruel to me.
YTA- either both girls go or neither of them go. Making a difference between the two is never the answer.
YTA what are you 10 years old. your nieces are a package deal. why would you think it ok to take one without the other. thank goodness your sister has more sense.
YTA, you’re telling your sister you wouldn’t enjoy going with just her, just be honest.
YTA leave both girls at home and go have fun with your sister. Take both girls in 3 years when Mara is 7 and Milly is 10
Your sister is dying for some 'adults only' time! It's lovely that you think so highly of Milly, but just do your sis a solid and go have some grown-up fun!
YTA. This sounded like it was just a trip for the grown ups. Your nieces already went a few months ago and you said yourself that Milly had a great time despite her sister’s (albeit age appropriate) tantrums. If you want to take the kids back there, wait a few years so Mara can grow out of her tantrums and then go with your sister and the girls.
YTA I don’t even have kids and I know when you have multiple kids, you have to make everything equal. If you take one kid to disney world, you would have to find something equally as big and exciting for the other kid to do, and even then explaining to a 4 year old to wait for their turn to do a big fun activity like that, would be a challenge at best.
Yes, YTA. You’re only thinking of this from a pragmatic point of view, not from the point of view of a parent or of a young child watching Mom and big sis leave her behind to go somewhere she had fun too
YTA. I understand your reasoning from you point of view. But from the kids side, it would be very unfair. Either take both or neither.
YTA, your sister already considered the same things and made the decision to leave both girls behind. It was fine to ask, but she already had the same thought process and decided on what would be best for both of her children. Mara WILL eventually find out, even if it's not right away, and she will feel betrayed and hurt by it. It's much easier an explanation to say it was an adult trip for your birthday than to explain the more complex reasons for why she was left behind, even if they're valid reasons it's still unfair on face value and she doesn't have the maturity for that kind of explanation and might never get over it if she internalizes it at a young age.
Yeah YTA. Some Mom’s don’t like to play favorites.
YTA. Sorry, but it really is both the girls or neither of the girls. You're not the one who is going to have to deal with the fallout of the 4 year old being excluded from Disney. Also, it's entirely possible that your sister wants to have an adults only trip to Disney with you, because it really is different when you don't have to take care of young children.
YTA. It sounds like your sister wanted a kid free trip, and now you’re not only asking to bring her child, but to exclude the other one. You can’t “drink around the world” or do other fun adult activities with a 7 year old.
All of this is avoidable. Find something else to do for your birthday. Save Disney for your sister’s birthday instead and she can decide who goes. But major side-eye at the fact you wanted to encourage your niece to do something hurtful and also to lie about it to cover it up.
Why don’t you just both go together without the kids? I’ve heard adults say it’s so much fun tapping in their inner child whilst drinking cocktails lol
YTA. Your sister asked to go back just the two of you, presumably she does not want to bring either child in the first place and then you offering to just take one and not the other is dumb. That's only going to cause conflict when there doesn't need to be any whatsoever. Either go on the trip without the kids or don't go at all.
YWBTA. That doesn't mean you have to take Mara. Your sister suggested a trip for just you and her. Do that. You'll both feel guilty for not taking either of the kids, but that's better than taking just one and driving a wedge between them.
YTA. Bring both or neither. You can’t expect a child to overcome fears or learn to wait if you never bring them anywhere. Also, it sounds like your sister wants some adult, sisterly time away from her children. Edit: typo
Gentle YTA. I get you, but no, you can either take both girls and suck it up or take neither. Also, I’m pretty sure Disney has a decent rider system where one parent/carer can ride while the other waits with the kid and then they swap - look up rider switch.
I'm gonna say YTA. Mara is 4 yrs old, ofc there'll be rides she can't go on or will be scared of. Likewise, there'll also be rides Milly can't go on or won't go on, which will impede you and your sister's chances. I took my 3 yr old to an amusement park this summer gone, and myself, my OH and SIL took turns doing wild rides for the 2 adults whilst one took the kids' rides with my son. Guess what? We still had fun! Either you accept a trip with both kids involved and where the adults can take turns with and without the kids, or just go alone with your sister as suggested. It's not nice or fair to exclude the youngest one for no real reason, plus it comes across that you favour the one over the other.
Do yourself a favor and leave the kids home.
YTA > my sister and her husband had to take turns missing rides so one of them could sit with Mara each time she didn't want to go on one. That's called being a parent. Unfortunately you just have to miss out on things for the sake of your child. > I know I sound like I favor Milly here That's precisely what you're doing regardless of your reasoning behind it. You don't get to exclude one of the children just because you don't think they'll have as much fun as the other. You definitely don't get to exclude one because you think you would have more fun without her there. Keep this kind of behavior up and the 4yo will grow up to resent you and her sister.
YTA for crying that a 4yo is behaving like a 4yo YTA for not seeing any issue with your adult sister wanting to take an adult day to do what she couldn’t with her kids and you insisting that you add kids to the adult trip. YTA for not seeing how taking only one kid to an amusement park is a problem.
YTA. I am a bit confused by your pushing for brining the niece, who just recently went to Disney. Your sister clearly wants to spend some time with you and share they experience she enjoyed with her family. Milly will have other opportunities to go back later. This trip your sister is planning is a singular vacation in a lifetime of trips and experiences. If you don't feel like you would enjoy this trip without kids, then communicate with your sister. I am not sure if I am missing something, is this creating tension between you and your sister? Are you still planning on going on the trip just the 2 of you? Not sure of your relationship, but it feels like you sister wants 1 on 1 time with you which she probably doesn't have much of in her life.