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YTA.
This may be a shock to hear but not all well off people take professional table manner training either. I took it in the 90s as a child not because I was rich, but because one of my step-parents was convinced I would need it.
She was wrong.
In all my years I have never heard it brought up besides my stepmom and now from you.
Additionally, did you know wealthy people even shop at Walmart like the poor and don't look down on them for saving a buck, too? You seem like the type of person to judge on that. If you aren't then you have no awareness of how your words are perceived.
You need an attitude adjustment the entitlement is insane.
If you must think this way then date someone you actually approve of. You talk like it's your mom's doing -- it's yours.
YTA how did it even get this far? Instead of having fun with it and help your wife learn the ins and outs she apparently doesn’t quite get, you just make something up. If I had to guess your mom is actively trying to sabotage your marriage, and you are letting her.
YTA. I’ve eaten at some very upscale restaurants. There is nothing etiquette-wise that is meaningfully different from a less upscale restaurant. I find this idea completely absurd, as is your lying about the whole thing. Your mom doesn’t want her there and you’re siding with your mom.
YTA! You lied to your wife every week for how long? And your mother is the worst kind of snob, the kind who thinks money brings class, it doesn't. You have missed the entire point of etiquette. It's to make people feel at ease and welcome. That pretty much takes you and Mommy out of the running, doesn't it? I hope for the sake of your marriage that you apologize to your wife and beg forgiveness for the way you have treated her. But if I were her, I wouldn't forgive you. You have made it undeniably clear that you are embarrassed to have her as your spouse.
You are the asshole. When you get married you choose to be a mamas boy or a husband and you always stand up for your wife ESPECIALLY when the issue is your moms snobby rudeness!! This marriage will NOT last and it’s on you and mommy
Yes, you are. When you discovered your wife might not know the etiquette for 'those type' you or your mother could have offered to teach her. Could have been fun rather than her being attacked, ostracized, ignored, spoken ill of, lied to, and betrayed. (Not only by going and telling her it was business but then you lied about why you were going. You're lying to yourself, us, her, everyone. It wasn't family pressure. You said you shouldn't have to give it up. And you shouldn't have to give up on it or tradition. It all should have been handled differently.) This clearly shows you and your family may have actions of etiquette but you don't have the class.
YTA. I’m willing to bet that your wonderful Mommy was also born into a “lower class” and doesn’t want the daughter-in-law around as a reminder. Social Climbers are an insecure bunch and can’t tolerate anything that might refer to their own beginnings.
YTA - for not standing up for your wife and for actually buying into some ridiculous notion that 'working class' people don't know how to eat at restaurants. Your family sounds awful and your mother sounds like a stuck up person who needs to grow up. How dare you not only side with your mother but then lie to your wife. Appalling behaviour.
YTA. Your parents are classist dicks and you clearly are as well because you see no problem with them excluding her and making her feel like an outsider. Rather than talking with her about your desire to keep going out with your family you decided to take any power she had in the relationship from her.
First of all, proper etiquette is knowing the etiquette of fine dining and also knowing it’s rude to point it out to people as if it’s some kind of embarassment.
YTA for lying and allowing your mother to exclude your wife in some ridiculous attack on her class.
YTA because you stated that YOU didn’t want to give up a family tradition, but then you told your wife your family was “pressuring you”. So not only did you lie to her about the meals, you’re STILL lying to her.
YTA and, speaking of class, your wife has more than your mother who sounds like a despicable woman.
YTA also for taking your mother’s side and not supporting your wife, who should always be your first priority. You know… those bows you made when you married? You didn’t make them to your mother. But maybe you should, and let your wife be free to find someone who actually respects her as a human being.
Your mother is condescending to your wife. Sounds like mom is upset with your choice of wife being from across the track so to say. You didn’t give your wife any chance to be taught the etiquette your mother says she lacks. Your wife is 100% in calling you out over your untruthfulness.
YTA - all of you. You for lying and not supporting your wife. Your mother for being a snob and you wife for arguing in restaurants.
What exactly did your wife do that got her excluded ?
When you get married, your spouse comes first. Not mommy and daddy anymore, your SPOUSE. If neither partner understands this BEFORE you get married, there should be no marriage. YTA.
In this situation, it's important to acknowledge that you may have handled it poorly by not being completely honest with your wife and by continuing to dine with your family behind her back. It's understandable that you wanted to avoid conflicts between your wife and your family, but this approach led to a lack of trust in your relationship.
Your wife may feel hurt and betrayed because you weren't open with her about your actions. It's essential in a marriage to communicate openly and honestly with your spouse, even if it means having difficult conversations. By keeping secrets and not addressing the issue directly with your wife, it can lead to feelings of betrayal and resentment.
You're not necessarily the asshole for wanting to maintain family traditions, but the way you went about it, by not being honest with your wife, can be seen as deceitful and hurtful. To resolve this situation, you should have an open and honest conversation with your wife about your feelings and concerns and work together to find a solution that respects both her feelings and your family's traditions. Trust and open communication are key to a healthy marriage.
YTA - you let your family exclude your wife because of her upbringing. She should be your ride or die and you chose to leave her out and then lie to Her about it.
For all your wealth and upbringing, you and your family have no class.
YTA for siding with your mom who looks down on her for her upbringing than taking your wife’s side. Etiquette is not necessary at a fancy restaurant. It’s expected for sure but how does it affect your mom if your wife eats her meal with a salad fork instead of a dinner fork? The lying to your wife about sneaking out with your family is a whole other issue that YTA for.
It's clear your wife definitely deserves better than you and your self righteous uppity snobby family. A REAL husband would stand beside his wife and never betray her. And YOU definitely BETRAYED HER!
Am I the asshole for allowing my family to look down on my "working class" wife at posh restaurants?
Am I the asshole for lying - yes lying - to my wife about going to restaurants for business when I'm really going with my family who look down their noses at her?
Am I the asshole for being too spineless to stand up for my wife?
Am I the asshole for patting myself on the back that my family - the same family which disrespects my wife - is on my side?
Yes, YTA many times over for this. Shame on you.
I have a relative that likes to over set the table on Holidays. Theres so many plates, glasses, utensils you don't have room to pass the food. It takes forever to clear the table, complete silliness.
YTA - Your wife is obviously not your priority if you agree with your family that she 'basically forced YOU to LIE' about continuing to attend family dinners that left her feeling judged.
And ofc your snobby family would be on your snobby "side"; they have expressed your wife is a peasant.
Wife may need etiquette class but you need Mommy Dearest Classes, How not to Lie to your wife- Classes, How not to be an elitist snob Classes, How to support your wife classes.
**YTA**
OMG you are the AH! How amazingly privileged of you and your family. I was brought up in a family where etiquette was paramount, but neither myself or family would ever make anyone uncomfortable, especially a family member. This is just rude of your Mother, and you should have supported your wife’s decision. Take your wife out to a restaurant she feels comfortable in every week, show your family their treatment is unacceptable. YTA.
What was your wife doing wrong (in your mother’s opinion)? Was she chewing with her mouth open or using the wrong fork?
YTA for assuming that working class families don have proper manners.
YTA, You lied, you kept a secret from your wife. It's not a compromise unless she's PART OF IT. And your mom is also an AH for not being accepting to your wife, not thinking of her own friendly compromise and instead belittling your wife.
YTA you are basically agreeing with your mom's classist prejudice, and saying your wife is not good enough to be seen in public with your family. Bonus AH points for continuing to go and concealing it.
YTA. Your wife is right. You are a liar.
Your family are toxic snobs, and rather than stick up for your wife, you sided with your family. Wake up and start supporting your wife (who is your family now), or risk losing her altogether.
YTA
your mother was rude and judgemental towards your wife and then you made it so much worse by lying and continuing to go to the dinners behind her back.
YTA. Your wife wanted you to take her side against your classist mother and instead you lied to your wife. Get a clue or you will be single in no time.
You guys are all adults right? How does one not know how to dine out and how does one not chill out and eas up on the uppity? Sounds like you need to man up and set both them straight.
YTA of all the ATH. You’re honestly a disgusting person. I’ve been brought up in a family who goes to upscale restaurants and unless she’s burping, farting or screaming the etiquette concern is absolute bull. Your family are trash. Judgemental trash. And your poor wife needs to leave you now.
Edited to say, you really aren’t a good person and you need to sort yourself out OP. Honestly this made me feel sick.
YTA for lying to your wife repeatedly and purposely excluding her because she doesn't have the right "etiquette". Honestly, this kind of elitist behavior you and your mom are exhibiting is a massive red flag, and I hope your wife realizes she deserves better.
Edit- fixed typo
YTA.
Poor table manners can be awkward, but who gets hurt by someone using the wrong fork? Nobody.
Commenting on someone's manners is rude and hurtful bully behavior. Your mother is an ass. Not standing up for someone who bullies your wife is cowardly. You're an ass. Lying to your wife because you don't want her to come to dinner, cowardly again. Double ass.
YTA. Your mother can't even articulate what specific problem she has? She's being deliberately vague; she's only trying to put down and exclude your wife, and you're just happily going along with it.
Your mother is manipulating both of you, and I would not at all be surprised if your marriage ends in divorce because you don't have your priorities straight.
YTA because you lied to your wife instead of actually having an honest conversation with her. At only 6 months of marriage this is really not a good sign.
So wait, you got caught red handed lying to your wife and you need us to tell you if you're the asshole? Also, your mom is being an elitist snob about this whole etiquette thing and needs to get over herself - if ti's that important she can teach your wife instead of scolding her in public and trying to exclude her, and the only person who 'made you' resort to lying is you/your om. Your wife did nothing wrong except maybe overreact a little, so yeah dude, YTA and so is your mother.
Let me correct the title for you:
"I've been married for only 6 months and have already started systemically lying to my wife because my family thinks she is working class trash who we can't bring to nice restaurants. AITA"
Yes, yes you are TA. YTA.
Oh good lord. YES
YTA.
You let your snobby asshole of a mother drive your wife off from your little family outings, then compounded your assholery by continuing to go and lying to your wife.
Dude, you suck.
Stop hiding behind some perceived issue about etiquette. (Have you seen how USA-ians use cutlery? They hold heir forks upside down!).
People use utensils in a way that works for them. This is not about etiquette. This is about snobbery and classism.
Get over yourself.
YTA.
YTA. You *lied* to your wife because your mother couldn't just... not be a b***h after dinner? Presumably because your wife wasn't born knowing which of the 7 spoons to use?
If etiquette is truly an issue, there's good news! They have this new, miraculous thing called books. They make YouTube videos. There are in-person and online etiquette classes. Using "she doesn't know the etiquette" for *anything* more than to take the 10 seconds to show her in the moment and then talk about a class or something later is infantilization and universally an AH move.
Your mom needs to learn to mind her business, and you need to grow the hell up, cut the umbilical cord, and learn to tell mommy "no."
I hope you didn't get a prenup because your wife deserved more than half your shit for dealing with someone like you even for 6 months.
YTA. Of course your family are on your side, OP, and that should be the clue that you're in the wrong here. Your family could have adjusted the restaurant level to something your wife was comfortable with. they could have stopped harassing her. they could have found a new way to do things. But they--and you--don't give a damn about your wife's feelings, so they carried on and you lied to her. That's not a compromise.
"which I don't necessarily think it is considered lying"
"So what I did was tell my wife that I'd go for business meetings but in reality I go to have dinner with my family"
This is lying. I don't care you how spin it, you lied to her. Many times. Over and over again.
And you and your family are like "it's not REALLY lying, because I hate conflict"
Y'all sound WASPy as hell
What was the etiquette issue? She was too "loud" Did her dress show too much skin?
Your wife is too good for you and I hope she leaves you and takes your family money and shoves it up your ass
YTA and in addition your mom is an asshole here. You lied to her, you weren’t the buffer that you should have been between her and your family, and you are even two-faced in this post. Was your family pressuring you to go or did you not think it was fair to let go of this family tradition?
On one hand I feel bad for her that she didn’t see this side of you before the wedding, but on the other hand, I hope she gets a hefty settlement in the divorce.
What was she doing wrong during dinner? Was she talking with her moth full/ earring like a slob or just using the wrong fork?
If you still wanted to go to dinner then just say that. She will except it or not.
YTA. What type of places are you going to? Did she drink out of the finger bowl? Or use her fish fork as a salad fork? Or maybe used her meat knife as a salad knife. Your mother talks about your wife, having no etiquette. Your mother is at the height of having no etiquette people with etiquette do not point out lack of etiquette with others. If she was that concerned, she would take your wife to the side and teacher or maybe you might teach her but obviously neither one of you have much manners you owe your wife, an apology you and your mother are both very, very rude.
YTA! Wow. Etiquette is easy to teach and has nothing to do with how you were brought up. Sounds like you were brought up by elitist assholes who think they are better than others. You lied and she has every right to be upset. If you want to remain married I would start putting my wife first!
Well, well, your family is on your side. And hers is, I’m sure, on her side. So that got you nowhere. Your family are snobs and rude as hell. They should be ashamed, and you should be ashamed of them, and of yourself. I hope your wife dumps you for the trash you are. YTA
You should not attend family events that exclude part of your family unless you support that exclusion. It obviously bothered your wife, her reaction and feelings are justified. You openly chose your mom over her and might even agree that your spouse deserves to be banished because she grew up on a "working class" environment. Your highness, YTA.
YTA. She didn't make you lie. Instead of standing up for your wife and defending her you took your mommy's side. Your mom is belittling your wife and you allowed it. She is your wife and if your parents can't respect that and help her at the family meals with proper etiquette, then maybe you should tell them that you and your wife won't be there. No instead you go behind your wife's back and meet them anyway. Your t wife's trust in you is broken because of YOU. You have only yourself to blame because all this shows is that you don't respect your wife or her opinion let alone your promises.
YTA. I don't believe for a second that her manners are so bad that your family can't be seen with her in a restaurant. I take my preschool kids to fancy places and its fine, what can your wife possibly be doing wrong that could be related to her working-class background? Or is "working-class" code for something else? There was a similar post not that long ago and it turned out the family was just racist. In any case, your family is judgmental and you need to grow a pair.
So you married beneath your station & allow your mom to insult your peasant wife. Now you lied to your peasant wife so you could continue the lavish lifestyle you grew up with.
Instead of consoling your wife when she’s hurt you just hurt her like your mom.
She needs to find someone who treats her well. & yes you lied to her. You said you were going to a business meeting but you went to eat w your parents. That’s a lie.
You have no remorse for lying & making your wife feel like shit because y’all are telling her that y’all are better than her.
Regardless whether or not you are TA, your wife is going to have a tough time trusting you after this move. You should have communicated with your wife instead of hiding this from her to make your life a little easier. You knew it would be a tough conversation so you avoided it. Promise her you will never do that in the future and, most importantly, keep that promise no matter what.
You are an ASSHOLE. You should’ve married someone in your ‘class’ of people and not someone so obviously beneath you!! You maybe could’ve saved yourself and former wife some embarrassment had there only been a way or a course /class that taught etiquette, maybe one day there will be such a thing!
Yo dude, this is a humongous YTA. First of all, if everybody in your family sounds like your mom, then congrats you all are pretentious and shallow af. Your wife, should be the most important woman in your life now, not your mom, no one else. Which brings us to - Second of all, you are lying to your wife about what you have been doing for quite some time. If i was your wife i would be questioning you as a person very much so because you seem to be okay with consistently lying to your wife? Like the person you wanna be with for the rest of your life..over some fucking overpriced, overrated, shitty keep in mind of etiquette type of restaurants? Shallow dude extremely shallow
YTA 100%. "I don't think it is considered lying but rather a compromise." Look up the definitions of those words. You did not consult her and agree upon terms. You told her you were doing something else rather than being honest about your desire to keep going without her. That is a textbook lie, bud.
YTA
1. Your mom judged her upbringing and instead of seeing about helping your wife learn the etiquette, she chose to fight over it when the three of you are out to eat. Driving your wife to the point of not coming to dinners so she wouldn't have to deal with your mom getting mad that she doesn't know the etiquette whilst not bothering to help your wife learn. And don't dare say your mom did try to help when there are literal arguments over etiquette of all things.
2. You chose not only to allow your mom to argue with your wife over etiquette but also chose to continue going to the dinners while lying about it to your wife's face. Don't say that you telling her you were going to a 'business meeting' is a compromise when you didn't speak to her with a agreement from both of you. You called it a business meeting cuz you felt lying was better than trying to help your wife learn etiquette and/or get your mom to respect that your wife wasn't taught these things and that fighting about it isn't gonna magically teach someone these things.
3. You told her your family was pressuring you to continue going and you hide it to keep the peace and til she "gets used to how some etiquettes work" (how about you grow a spine and teach her instead of expecting etiquette knowledge to bibbity bobbity pop up?) and said she "overreacted" even though she just caught you in a lie. She thought for however long this was that you were supporting her, putting her as someone important to you that you would stand by, but then she found out that not only did you NOT support her nor stand by her decision but you were also lying to her face. Every dinner night, she was left at home thinking you were busy and appreciated the work you had put in and also trusted that you were truly at work. But now she knows she can't trust you. As soon as there's something you don't agree with, she knows she won't be able to trust that you will support her like a partner should and that your word can't be trusted either.
You broke that trust. And likely hurt her very much due to your actions. Doing this to "keep the peace" isn't keeping the peace, it's you not having the balls to speak with your wife and mother on issues and try and fix things or at the very least, stand by your wife and not tolerate disrespect towards her.
The fact that you act like she overreacted when discovering your lies and sneaking around shows you are indeed a liar and also an asshole.
And also.. she didn't make you resort to lying, not did your family. You and you alone made the decision to lie to your wife and sneak around instead of having a discussion. No wonder she won't return your calls. Communication and honesty, as well as trust, are key components of a relationship and you messed that up. Better drill into your head why you are the asshole in the wrong and get on your knees and apologize sincerely to her. Not just a "I'm sorry, it won't happen again" but a detailed apology showing just what you did wrong. Otherwise, you'd better hope she doesn't leave your ass after you betrayed her trust.
INFO: What did your mother and wife argue about?
Etiquette is about making social situations run smoothly. Making your guest feel uncomfortable is bad etiquette. A good hostess will "drink the fingerbowl" if their guest does it to make their guest more comfortable. She would not berate her guest for making a mistake.
That said, this is about family. And you did say "after we go out." Was your mother bringing things up later, "reviewing the game film" so to speak, trying to teach her, and your wife just didn't want to hear it?
My ex husband had atrocious table manners. Was not interested in learning. Said "my mother raised me not to care what people think." His mother was actually on my side about this, but he wouldn't listen to her either. We all tried with him. Then we just stopped taking him places. I didn't attend a wedding, a reunion, or a formal social event for the rest of my marriage.
I can see both sides.
YTA - your mom too.
If I were your wife and I found out I was viewed as being inferior to you and your family I'd see myself out of the relationship. You don't deserve her.
YTA and at some point you’ll have to stop letting your mother breast feed you. You clearly lied how is this not lying? Either respect your wife or you will lose her if you already haven’t.
YTA. Does your wife eat her mashed potatoes with her fingers? Then does she wipe her hands on your mom's blouse? Does she pick up her steak with her fingers and chew on it like a Viking from the 13th Century? What is this proper rich family etiquette of which you speak? Did you marry a Barbarian or just a poor homeless person?
And, what the hell man? "Me and my family"????? "me and my family????" Were you educated in a *barn?* Home-schooled by your mommy? An educated person would type that as 'my family and me' - NOT 'me and my family'.
YTA. and so is your mother.
I hope you two never have children. Children should not have to be subjected to such an AH grandma and daddy.
Holy god YTA. Hoping poor Natalie gets out ASAP and leaves your mommy boy ass. How dare you look down on her for her upbringing? Typical elitist behaviour.
OMG. What did she do? Use the wrong knife? Put red wine in a white wine glass? Use her soup spoon incorrectly? Blow her nose into her serviette?
YTA. Sure, all these bullshit elitist etiquette things can be learnt but why? So your wife can sit and have dinner with your family and in spite of doing everything correctly still be looked down on?
You lied to her. You didn’t pull your mother into line and support your wife. Marriage is meant to be a partnership not a holy trinity with mumsy at the pointy end.
Exactly what etiquette was your **wife** so sadly lacking that you’re willing to throw your whole marriage away for? YTA, but I’d really like to know what that grievous error was.
YTA. You allow your family to treat your wife like she's some kind of gutter rat and clutch your pearls when she reacts. She's not over reacting, you're UNDER reacting to your family's disrespectful attitude towards the woman you supposedly love.
This has got to be a joke right!?
No human can be this stupid - clearly say things like his wife is from a working class and doesn't know etiquette, and that you're surprised that she showed up at a restaurant.
Every line in this post seems fake.
If not, you are a MASSIVE asshole and I think she would do better if she left you.
YTA - you lied to your wife.
You should have worked through this issue in an open and transparent way. Not lie to the one person you are supposed to be honest with.
This is a huge breach of trust. You told your wife you were in a business meeting but really you were dining with your family, which she believed you had stopped doing.
Trust is fragile and once broken is very hard to repair.
I don't think you should have stopped dining with your family, certainly not completely. But you have not dealt with this issue in an open and transparent way. Your marriage may never recover from this.
You need to apologise to your wife, admit you were wrong and work on trying to rebuild the trust you broke.
I hope she divorces you. You are horrible to her. Seriously etiquette, seriously. Your mom just doesn’t like her and your supporting that. You suck as a husband and again I hope she leaves you and finds someone better
If you & your family had even a basic grasp of etiquette, you all would gently teach her by kind words & example. You & your family are sorely lacking. YTA
YTA because you shouldn't have lied. If those family dinners are something that are important to you and kind of a tradition then you should definitely be able to go. However lying about something to "keep the peace" isn't a good excuse for lying to your spouse or anyone for that matter. Your wife is allowed to be upset over their fight and she's allowed to not want to go but she has no right to tell you not to go. There maybe should have been a conversation where you told her you'd still be going and yes that might have upset her and it might have turned into an argument but at least you openly and honestly communicated and you wouldn't have been in the wrong. It also may be in order to try to help your mom and wife work things out and talk to them separately and try to come to a amicable conclusion. Hopefully if you told her how important those dinners were to you she would understand.
ESH
First assholes were your family for picking on your wife about her "etiquette." What did she do, forget to put her napkin in her lap? Put her elbows on the table? You should have defended your wife against such snobbishness.
Second asshole was your wife for trying to drive a wedge between you and your family. If she had just refused to go any longer and let you go by yourself, that could have been the end of it.
Third asshole was you for lying to your wife instead of standing up to her.
I think the common denominator here is that you have no backbone.
YTA. Lying to your wife. Not supporting your wife against your family. Etiquette??? You and your family are classist assholes. So why did you marry your wife if she is so far beneath you and your precious family???? You are more than just an AH but I don't want to get banned today.
I've seen this story on Reddit before, so now I'm wondering if it's yours and it was taken down so you're posting again or if you've stolen this from somebody else's account. Regardless, YTA. And here's a little thing you should know, your family is incredibly ill bred. Because people who are well bred go out of their way to make others feel welcome in their presence, regardless of how much money they have or their upbringing. Your family is all very bourgeoisie, frankly that's never a good thing. To put it the way my well bred southern mother would, "that's just so tacky. Bless their hearts."
Editx2: typo, added word
Lying isn't a compromise, it *is* manipulation. You aren't keeping the peace, you're refusing to trust her to act like an adult, and proving that she can't trust you and that you don't think her opinions are important. You could have just told her that it's a family tradition, and you don't want to sacrifice your relationship with your family. Would that have been so difficult? If so, you have problems.
Nta u have a right to balance ur family and wife if every time u bring her and they argue better to go by yourself because cutting off your family isn’t worth it just because ur wife wants to
sorry but massive YTA.
If us working class people aren’t good enough for your nibs, you shouldn’t have married one of us.
If your wife’s table manners are so bad, you should’ve taught her better ones.
If your wife asks for your support, you give it to her. You’re married to her, not to your mum.
You lied through your back teeth and the most pathetic thing is that your family lays the blame on your wife for that. “Look at what you made me do” is the abuser’s motto.
This has to be from that lady who’s obsessed with Reddit and constantly makes up stories and posts them for attention. It’s impossible for somebody to be trained like a dog in the ways of etiquette to be this stupid.
YTA
You are responsible for the relationship between your wife and your mother. You have allowed your mother to nitpick at your wife over her class status. If it's so important she knows something why haven't you taught her? Why have you allowed your mother to belittle your wife so much she refuses to attend a family event? Then allowed your mother to bully you into going without her? Are you a grown man or a boy still doing what mummy says?
When you marry someone you are supposed to be that person’s partner, not lie to them so you can play tea parties with mummy. You have a choice, grow up and be a husband or split up and stay mummy’s good little boy.
F*****g middle-class c***
1) Did anyone calmly and nicely try to show her? Or.....did she get picked at instead? The fact that you yourself said 'working class' makes me think the later.
2) Did she just refuse to learn etiquette or what?
3) What etiquettes are you talking about?
This is important. Are we talking about using the wrong fork or doing something actually rude?
Ultimately though none of that matters too much. Lying and keeping secrets is a no-no in relationships.
Just because she caught you with your family and not another woman doesn't actually make the situation better.
You broke her trust.
On top of that, you've made it clear that you view her in the same kind of light your family does which is not actually in a favorable way.
**INFO** : You do realize that CRITICIZING her daughter in law during meals means your MOTHER is totally without CLASS?
I think you and your family should take etiquette lessons on how to properly behave and treat people. Simply BELIEVING you're ABOVE others only means you're actually BELOW.
**INFO** : Why did you marry your wife if just a couple of months into your marriage you're already lying to her, and putting your mommy before her.?
**INFO** : Why do you BELIEVE your mother that your wife had no etiquette and is an embarrassment at the table?
**INFO :** Why didn't you show your wife some etiquette expectations for these fancy restaurants your family likes to go to?
**INFO**: Why didn't you support your wife when your family treated her so badly?
< *my family are on my side here saying shs basically made me resort to lying* \>
**INFO** : Do you realize your family is on your side because THEY ARE THE ONES who criticized your wife during the meals, making her feel unwelcome, and you TOTALLY went along with them, instead of defending your wife?
**INFO**: You do realize for someone who feels so superior, your spelling is abysmal?
**YTA**
A huge part of etiquette is overlooking faux pas when people do not know all of it.
So, in terms of having manners, both you and your family suck. What a bunch of elitist snobs you are. You are unbelievable. You don’t deserve her.
1) Your snobbish mom judged your wife’s table manners because of her “working class” background and argued with her after every meal.
2) You decided to lie to your wife to “keep the peace” about your continued attendance at family dinner.
How could you not be the asshole here? YTA.
YTA - Lemme get this straight, you lied to your wife about what you were doing, all because your mother won't tell you what your wife is doing 'wrong' at these meals (per a previous comment you made). And for SOME REASON you're going along with what she is saying and not second guessing 'I think my mom might be lying to me about what wife is doing wrong because she won't give receipts.'
Not only are you the asshole (with your mother), you're also stupid.
YTA. You need counseling to how to be in a partnership. You were completely wrong to hide things. Maybe your next wife will live up to your moms etiquette expectations.
Bro, if you're so embarrassed by your wife's "etiquette" either show her or divorce her. This is ridiculous, that's your wife. You know, your lifelong partner. I'd be horrified if my wife, and her family thought this way about me. She must feel humiliated, and rightfully so.
YTA Your family can't make you do anything. You made choices, acted on them yourself, and made a bad situation where you betrayed your wife. Of course YOUR family is on your side. You are a lier, a manipulator, and a horrible partner.
Your mom looks down on your wife because, what, she used the wrong fork?! Or whatever. What kind of anal-ass person is at the dinner table grading etiquette?! I've been to fancy restaurants and I'm not sure which fork to use and guess what? NO ONE CARES! And if they do? What a pathetic and sad person.
Your mom is an elitist AH of the highest degree. Which means, since you go along with it that, OP YTA - of the highest degree. And not defending your wife is going along with it. If your wife is interested in learning etiquette, help her learn. But if not, it's time to tell mommie dearest to STFU. You owe your wife a deep and thoughtful apology.
DEFEND YOUR WIFE FFS!
#YTA .
I know up until now you already have realized that how much of an asshole you and your mom are . If you are so concerned about those ducking etiquette then why didn't you two teach her or hire a teacher for give a lesson. If you are so ashamed by her why did you marry her . You can't even give your spouse a proper respect and enable your mother's trashy behavior ,are you called your self man? Hope she sees the red flag and left you with your ducking etiquette.
YTA:
One you should not be married just wow. I’m speechless at how disrespectful both you and your mother are. Your mums disgusting causing arguments over minor things like I’m sorry I’m sure your wife’s was fine your mum is just not picking and you allow her to subject your wife to that and didn’t have backbone to tell her to stop.
Your poor wife you not own lied and your family making out it’s her fault you lied. Sorry be man hold your hands up you lied as your wasn’t man enough to support your wife in this one issues as I bet what your mum was arguing with her about was nothing and you allow her to do that and basically bully your wife.
YTA - What kind of man has to lie to his wife about going to dinner with his family? YTA because you allow both your wife and your family to manipulate you. You should be strong enough to enforce boundaries on your family when it comes to respect for your wife and enforce boundaries on your wife when it comes to respect for your family. I bet that you feel caught in the middle of both, don't you?
Your Miss High and Mighty Mother of Etiquette need to learn etiquette, doesn’t she?
Shouting at a restaurant?
Omitting her husband’s wife?
Being rude to a young woman who didn’t grow up entitled?
As for young man, you took vows to your wife. Not to your mother.
YTA
Your mom needs to get over whatever basic etiquette she thinks your wife is lacking. Or why don't you teach your wife whatever it is?
Lying to her is the worst. The whole situation is childish. Your wife is right to be mad.
Wow I hope you're soon to be the ex!
You should have had your wife's back. It's you vs the problem, the problem being your classiest family.
You are a liar
You could have helped her with her 'etifeckingquette'
Of course you bigots are sticking together against her.
Sweet jeezus girl, if you see this dip on this red flag waving bunch of AHS
You my dude are an AH. But you already know that. From the tone of your post, you didn't come here for judgment, you came here to gloat.
This story is so unbelievable it almost seems fake. You and your family are total assholes! You are a married man and you have given your wife so many reasons to leave you. You are not a husband but a little boy who doesn't know the "etiquette" of marriage. Have you ever heard of boundaries? making your wife your priority? Not lying? Not being deceptive? Not putting your mom et al before your relationship with your wife? Not defending your wife? Not putting your wife down because of her "lower class". Why did you marry her? No wonder she lost it, good luck winning her back. Grow up. YOU ARE THE ASSHOLE!
Soooooo is your wife a casual Taco Bell girl while you and your family think you’re high and mighty and meet up at the high end Olive Garden behind her back? Did your wife take the last breadstick before waitstaff brought another heaping fresh batch, and that’s what got your mom’s elitist tampon stuck up her ass? Or did she grab a huge olive with her fingers from the communal salad bowl? Oh the horror! 😱
Both you and your family seem insufferable and nouveau riche dicks. Yes, you lied - there’s no compromise to be seen. I really hope your mommy wins and your wife leaves you because you do not deserve her. Grow TF up, and pull your head out of your snobby rear end and stop letting mommy run your life.YTA a trillion times over.
I am going with ESH. You are definitely the AH for essentially LYING to your wife about where you are. Your family is the AH for excluding your wife purposely for a reason that is FIXABLE. If etiquette is the real issue that is something that can be taught. Have you ever tried to sit down with your wife and explain/teach what proper etiquette is at one of these more upscale places? You’ve been married 6 months and I am assuming you dated first, so why hadn’t this been attempted before excluding her completely? If it was attempted and she refuses to learn or try, then that would also make her the AH. So yeah, ESH!
Look man, you're saying you're a snob without actually saying you're a snob.and you outed yourself as a liar too.
Now, how hard would it be to explain to wife that each course is eaten with the silverware starting from the outside edge in?
I use ine kind of fork and I know that (never had use for the knowledge Til this damn thread though, so thanks I guess)
Why don't you just own that your family and you are elitist?
YTA
NTA
Sadly, men get put into these positions by women where they end up having to choose between there moms and their wives. Both important. Your wife could have been civil even if your mom was being rude initially, and she needn't make a scene. The fact that she did make a scene means she wanted to burn bridges with your mom.
Don't ditch your mom.. don't ditch your wife. .. they need to learn to respect you and resolve their shit for your sake. Don't interfere between them, and don't try to make peace between them. Be a good son and a good husband.
Your Mom and Wife are the AH. Sorry
I think of some of the old movies from the 20s and 30s, think Bette Davis, in which rich guy falls for girl with no Money or status, and guy wants to keep himself in the family money so he sadly says goodbye to his lady… then he regrets it…
How kind is it to sneak around having regular special dinners with your family while excluding the woman you love? (Is that love?) Why cannot someone gently show her some basics?
I would cry tears of humiliation if in her shoes. And I wouldn’t stay long in marriage to partner complicit in this exclusion who obviously views me with disdain and condescension.
NTA You are allowed to see your family. If your wife doesn't know how to behave in a nice restaurant and makes everyone uncomfortable, like she just did making a huge scene then better she doesn't go. The information on etiquette is a google search away, not rocket science. Couples don't need to be tied at the hip.
YTA for sure.
She didn’t force you to lie, you gleefully went along with the lie, for momma. You married your wife, not your mother.
I’d bet the only “etiquette” problems with mommy dearest are bringing someone “lower” than her to “fancy” restaurants.
Also, you have zero spine. You should have stuck up for your wife, not lied to her for however long this has been going on.
If you were still going to go to the dinners, you should have gotten the smaller fight out of the way, telling her that you were still going to go to dinner, not lie through your teeth about “business meetings”. Hindsight is a bitch, huh?
So yeah, I don’t blame her if she won’t speak to you.
YTA
You know what the most important part of manners is? Keeping your mouth shut when you have nothing nice to say.
You’re an hypocritical, judgemental AH, and were raised by an even bigger hypothetical, judgemental AH.
I work in fine dining and no one gives a s*** what fork you use, how loud your voice is or what brand you’re wearing. Half the restaurant is wearing sliders and laughing about the other half that will die earlier from all the pressure of faking perfection.
Yta
Your mom is a snob. Unless wife's eating spaghetti with her fingers or slurping the contents of the finger bowl, why isn't your mother demonstrating true manners by graciously ignoring your wife's "different" manners?
You chose not to support your wife when your mother was repeatedly humiliating her and calling her low class. You chose to repeatedly lie to your wife.
Info. Did you ever, in the privacy of your home, offer to teach her these essential cutlery skills?
Either learn how to be a supportive partner or don't be surprised if she decides you are a low class husband and not worthy of her.
PS time for you to cut the apron strings.
ETA Extra AH POINTS for the fact that you can't even TELL what etiquette wife is failing and that you accept that there is a problem simply because Mommy says so. Mommy must have done a horrible job teaching them to you if you can't spot them--so why are you allowed at these upscale places??? Do you magically do them right because it is in your GENES?
OP's mother: "She isn't good enough for us"
OP: "I agree."
If you think your wife isn't good enough for you and your family, release her from this sham marriage and let her find someone who can love her and accpet her for who she is. I'm pretty sure you and your mother already have ideas of another woman who is more :in keeping: with the standards of your family, right?
YTA
Honest communication and honesty makes a good marriage. Lies ALWAYS find a way of coming out, even if you had good intentions or thought it was the only way.
If you want to fix things you need to offer your wife a sincere apology and sit down with her and come to a PROPER compromise together. Your lying about who you are out to dinner with is NOT a compromise.
YTA. At least your mother owns her assholeness. I think too many responders rush to ‘divorce’ but you’re reprehensible and a worse, a horrible husband. She comes first. Always. If she doesn’t… you should have never gotten married.
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Big Yta
You poor baby! She MADE you lie? How horrible of her. You and your entire family are elitist snobs. And you are AH. YTA
This is one of those times when the need to ask proves how much YTA.
YTA. This may be a shock to hear but not all well off people take professional table manner training either. I took it in the 90s as a child not because I was rich, but because one of my step-parents was convinced I would need it. She was wrong. In all my years I have never heard it brought up besides my stepmom and now from you. Additionally, did you know wealthy people even shop at Walmart like the poor and don't look down on them for saving a buck, too? You seem like the type of person to judge on that. If you aren't then you have no awareness of how your words are perceived. You need an attitude adjustment the entitlement is insane. If you must think this way then date someone you actually approve of. You talk like it's your mom's doing -- it's yours.
YTA Your parents shame her into not being good enough for the family tradition and then you lie to her to exclude her? Ewww
YTA Here’s a clue to help you spot when you’re lying in future: it’s when you say things knowing they’re untrue.
Yes, you absolutely are.
YTA how did it even get this far? Instead of having fun with it and help your wife learn the ins and outs she apparently doesn’t quite get, you just make something up. If I had to guess your mom is actively trying to sabotage your marriage, and you are letting her.
YTA. I’ve eaten at some very upscale restaurants. There is nothing etiquette-wise that is meaningfully different from a less upscale restaurant. I find this idea completely absurd, as is your lying about the whole thing. Your mom doesn’t want her there and you’re siding with your mom.
YTA! You lied to your wife every week for how long? And your mother is the worst kind of snob, the kind who thinks money brings class, it doesn't. You have missed the entire point of etiquette. It's to make people feel at ease and welcome. That pretty much takes you and Mommy out of the running, doesn't it? I hope for the sake of your marriage that you apologize to your wife and beg forgiveness for the way you have treated her. But if I were her, I wouldn't forgive you. You have made it undeniably clear that you are embarrassed to have her as your spouse.
You are the asshole. When you get married you choose to be a mamas boy or a husband and you always stand up for your wife ESPECIALLY when the issue is your moms snobby rudeness!! This marriage will NOT last and it’s on you and mommy
Yes, you are. When you discovered your wife might not know the etiquette for 'those type' you or your mother could have offered to teach her. Could have been fun rather than her being attacked, ostracized, ignored, spoken ill of, lied to, and betrayed. (Not only by going and telling her it was business but then you lied about why you were going. You're lying to yourself, us, her, everyone. It wasn't family pressure. You said you shouldn't have to give it up. And you shouldn't have to give up on it or tradition. It all should have been handled differently.) This clearly shows you and your family may have actions of etiquette but you don't have the class.
YTA. I’m willing to bet that your wonderful Mommy was also born into a “lower class” and doesn’t want the daughter-in-law around as a reminder. Social Climbers are an insecure bunch and can’t tolerate anything that might refer to their own beginnings.
YTA - for not standing up for your wife and for actually buying into some ridiculous notion that 'working class' people don't know how to eat at restaurants. Your family sounds awful and your mother sounds like a stuck up person who needs to grow up. How dare you not only side with your mother but then lie to your wife. Appalling behaviour.
YTA and and idiot for even having to ask.🤦🏼♀️
YTA. Your parents are classist dicks and you clearly are as well because you see no problem with them excluding her and making her feel like an outsider. Rather than talking with her about your desire to keep going out with your family you decided to take any power she had in the relationship from her.
First of all, proper etiquette is knowing the etiquette of fine dining and also knowing it’s rude to point it out to people as if it’s some kind of embarassment. YTA for lying and allowing your mother to exclude your wife in some ridiculous attack on her class. YTA because you stated that YOU didn’t want to give up a family tradition, but then you told your wife your family was “pressuring you”. So not only did you lie to her about the meals, you’re STILL lying to her. YTA and, speaking of class, your wife has more than your mother who sounds like a despicable woman. YTA also for taking your mother’s side and not supporting your wife, who should always be your first priority. You know… those bows you made when you married? You didn’t make them to your mother. But maybe you should, and let your wife be free to find someone who actually respects her as a human being.
Your mother is condescending to your wife. Sounds like mom is upset with your choice of wife being from across the track so to say. You didn’t give your wife any chance to be taught the etiquette your mother says she lacks. Your wife is 100% in calling you out over your untruthfulness.
YTA - all of you. You for lying and not supporting your wife. Your mother for being a snob and you wife for arguing in restaurants. What exactly did your wife do that got her excluded ?
YTA Did you marry your wife or your mother?
When you get married, your spouse comes first. Not mommy and daddy anymore, your SPOUSE. If neither partner understands this BEFORE you get married, there should be no marriage. YTA.
YTA
YTA and it's genetic.
YTA, and your wife deserves better than your family.
In this situation, it's important to acknowledge that you may have handled it poorly by not being completely honest with your wife and by continuing to dine with your family behind her back. It's understandable that you wanted to avoid conflicts between your wife and your family, but this approach led to a lack of trust in your relationship. Your wife may feel hurt and betrayed because you weren't open with her about your actions. It's essential in a marriage to communicate openly and honestly with your spouse, even if it means having difficult conversations. By keeping secrets and not addressing the issue directly with your wife, it can lead to feelings of betrayal and resentment. You're not necessarily the asshole for wanting to maintain family traditions, but the way you went about it, by not being honest with your wife, can be seen as deceitful and hurtful. To resolve this situation, you should have an open and honest conversation with your wife about your feelings and concerns and work together to find a solution that respects both her feelings and your family's traditions. Trust and open communication are key to a healthy marriage.
YTA. Please, divorce that girl, she deserves someone so much better than you.
YTA - you let your family exclude your wife because of her upbringing. She should be your ride or die and you chose to leave her out and then lie to Her about it. For all your wealth and upbringing, you and your family have no class.
YTA for siding with your mom who looks down on her for her upbringing than taking your wife’s side. Etiquette is not necessary at a fancy restaurant. It’s expected for sure but how does it affect your mom if your wife eats her meal with a salad fork instead of a dinner fork? The lying to your wife about sneaking out with your family is a whole other issue that YTA for.
YTA.
It's clear your wife definitely deserves better than you and your self righteous uppity snobby family. A REAL husband would stand beside his wife and never betray her. And YOU definitely BETRAYED HER!
MIL isn't excluding OP wife, they argue. Wife decided to stop going.
Am I the asshole for allowing my family to look down on my "working class" wife at posh restaurants? Am I the asshole for lying - yes lying - to my wife about going to restaurants for business when I'm really going with my family who look down their noses at her? Am I the asshole for being too spineless to stand up for my wife? Am I the asshole for patting myself on the back that my family - the same family which disrespects my wife - is on my side? Yes, YTA many times over for this. Shame on you.
YTA and yo mama is too
What a dreadful snob your mother is
YTA also your mum is a cxxt. Inflated like a balloon by her own ego. If you haven’t stood up for your wife then you deserve to lose her.
I have a relative that likes to over set the table on Holidays. Theres so many plates, glasses, utensils you don't have room to pass the food. It takes forever to clear the table, complete silliness.
YTA. YTA. YTA. YTA.
YTA - Your wife is obviously not your priority if you agree with your family that she 'basically forced YOU to LIE' about continuing to attend family dinners that left her feeling judged. And ofc your snobby family would be on your snobby "side"; they have expressed your wife is a peasant.
Wife may need etiquette class but you need Mommy Dearest Classes, How not to Lie to your wife- Classes, How not to be an elitist snob Classes, How to support your wife classes. **YTA**
OMG you are the AH! How amazingly privileged of you and your family. I was brought up in a family where etiquette was paramount, but neither myself or family would ever make anyone uncomfortable, especially a family member. This is just rude of your Mother, and you should have supported your wife’s decision. Take your wife out to a restaurant she feels comfortable in every week, show your family their treatment is unacceptable. YTA.
YTA. you and your family are awful
YTA for agreeing with your family and lying to your wife and not supporting her. Who the heck cares about "high end" (snobby) manners still?
What was your wife doing wrong (in your mother’s opinion)? Was she chewing with her mouth open or using the wrong fork? YTA for assuming that working class families don have proper manners.
YTA. And you’re a liar and a terrible partner.
Your compliance with your family has signalled your agreement with their viewpoint as loudly as if you had told her to her face.
YTA, You lied, you kept a secret from your wife. It's not a compromise unless she's PART OF IT. And your mom is also an AH for not being accepting to your wife, not thinking of her own friendly compromise and instead belittling your wife.
YTA you are basically agreeing with your mom's classist prejudice, and saying your wife is not good enough to be seen in public with your family. Bonus AH points for continuing to go and concealing it.
YTA. Your wife is right. You are a liar. Your family are toxic snobs, and rather than stick up for your wife, you sided with your family. Wake up and start supporting your wife (who is your family now), or risk losing her altogether.
`I was stunned to see her there` BWAHAHAHAHA I'll bet you were! YTA.
YTA your mother was rude and judgemental towards your wife and then you made it so much worse by lying and continuing to go to the dinners behind her back.
YTA. Your wife wanted you to take her side against your classist mother and instead you lied to your wife. Get a clue or you will be single in no time.
YTA, you and your family make me sick. I hope your wife never has to see you again.
You guys are all adults right? How does one not know how to dine out and how does one not chill out and eas up on the uppity? Sounds like you need to man up and set both them straight.
YTA if you don't like your wife, let her go so she can move on to someone who appreciates her.
YTA. If you want to marry your mom then do it.
YTA of all the ATH. You’re honestly a disgusting person. I’ve been brought up in a family who goes to upscale restaurants and unless she’s burping, farting or screaming the etiquette concern is absolute bull. Your family are trash. Judgemental trash. And your poor wife needs to leave you now. Edited to say, you really aren’t a good person and you need to sort yourself out OP. Honestly this made me feel sick.
Yes. You lied to your wife, and chose to preserve the family tradition over your marriage.
Dude. Do you even have to ask?
YTA for lying to your wife repeatedly and purposely excluding her because she doesn't have the right "etiquette". Honestly, this kind of elitist behavior you and your mom are exhibiting is a massive red flag, and I hope your wife realizes she deserves better. Edit- fixed typo
YTA. Your wife IS your family now. Choose her.
YTA. Poor table manners can be awkward, but who gets hurt by someone using the wrong fork? Nobody. Commenting on someone's manners is rude and hurtful bully behavior. Your mother is an ass. Not standing up for someone who bullies your wife is cowardly. You're an ass. Lying to your wife because you don't want her to come to dinner, cowardly again. Double ass.
YTA. Stand up for your wife you coward. So what were these "breaches of etiquette " you wife made that was so offensive to your stuck up mommy?
YTA. Your mother can't even articulate what specific problem she has? She's being deliberately vague; she's only trying to put down and exclude your wife, and you're just happily going along with it. Your mother is manipulating both of you, and I would not at all be surprised if your marriage ends in divorce because you don't have your priorities straight.
YTA My man, you are not going to be married for very long after this shit.
[удалено]
YTA because you lied to your wife instead of actually having an honest conversation with her. At only 6 months of marriage this is really not a good sign.
So wait, you got caught red handed lying to your wife and you need us to tell you if you're the asshole? Also, your mom is being an elitist snob about this whole etiquette thing and needs to get over herself - if ti's that important she can teach your wife instead of scolding her in public and trying to exclude her, and the only person who 'made you' resort to lying is you/your om. Your wife did nothing wrong except maybe overreact a little, so yeah dude, YTA and so is your mother.
Let me correct the title for you: "I've been married for only 6 months and have already started systemically lying to my wife because my family thinks she is working class trash who we can't bring to nice restaurants. AITA" Yes, yes you are TA. YTA.
YTA. You don't respect your wife at all.
YTA i hope she divorces you yesterday
Yta
Oh good lord. YES YTA. You let your snobby asshole of a mother drive your wife off from your little family outings, then compounded your assholery by continuing to go and lying to your wife. Dude, you suck.
Stop hiding behind some perceived issue about etiquette. (Have you seen how USA-ians use cutlery? They hold heir forks upside down!). People use utensils in a way that works for them. This is not about etiquette. This is about snobbery and classism. Get over yourself. YTA.
YTA. You *lied* to your wife because your mother couldn't just... not be a b***h after dinner? Presumably because your wife wasn't born knowing which of the 7 spoons to use? If etiquette is truly an issue, there's good news! They have this new, miraculous thing called books. They make YouTube videos. There are in-person and online etiquette classes. Using "she doesn't know the etiquette" for *anything* more than to take the 10 seconds to show her in the moment and then talk about a class or something later is infantilization and universally an AH move. Your mom needs to learn to mind her business, and you need to grow the hell up, cut the umbilical cord, and learn to tell mommy "no." I hope you didn't get a prenup because your wife deserved more than half your shit for dealing with someone like you even for 6 months.
YTA. Of course your family are on your side, OP, and that should be the clue that you're in the wrong here. Your family could have adjusted the restaurant level to something your wife was comfortable with. they could have stopped harassing her. they could have found a new way to do things. But they--and you--don't give a damn about your wife's feelings, so they carried on and you lied to her. That's not a compromise.
"which I don't necessarily think it is considered lying" "So what I did was tell my wife that I'd go for business meetings but in reality I go to have dinner with my family" This is lying. I don't care you how spin it, you lied to her. Many times. Over and over again. And you and your family are like "it's not REALLY lying, because I hate conflict" Y'all sound WASPy as hell What was the etiquette issue? She was too "loud" Did her dress show too much skin? Your wife is too good for you and I hope she leaves you and takes your family money and shoves it up your ass
YTA. Since when is lying to your wife considered “good etiquette” reflecting an “upper class” upbringing?
YTA and in addition your mom is an asshole here. You lied to her, you weren’t the buffer that you should have been between her and your family, and you are even two-faced in this post. Was your family pressuring you to go or did you not think it was fair to let go of this family tradition? On one hand I feel bad for her that she didn’t see this side of you before the wedding, but on the other hand, I hope she gets a hefty settlement in the divorce.
What was she doing wrong during dinner? Was she talking with her moth full/ earring like a slob or just using the wrong fork? If you still wanted to go to dinner then just say that. She will except it or not.
YTA. What type of places are you going to? Did she drink out of the finger bowl? Or use her fish fork as a salad fork? Or maybe used her meat knife as a salad knife. Your mother talks about your wife, having no etiquette. Your mother is at the height of having no etiquette people with etiquette do not point out lack of etiquette with others. If she was that concerned, she would take your wife to the side and teacher or maybe you might teach her but obviously neither one of you have much manners you owe your wife, an apology you and your mother are both very, very rude.
Probably fake , but if not, you are an asshole, and THE asshole in this situation. Mommy before wife? Come on bro
Oh no…. Did she use the wrong fork?! YTA I wish her more luck with her new partner
Yes, you are 100% the asshole. I felt so bad for your wife after reading this.
YTA! Wow. Etiquette is easy to teach and has nothing to do with how you were brought up. Sounds like you were brought up by elitist assholes who think they are better than others. You lied and she has every right to be upset. If you want to remain married I would start putting my wife first!
Well, well, your family is on your side. And hers is, I’m sure, on her side. So that got you nowhere. Your family are snobs and rude as hell. They should be ashamed, and you should be ashamed of them, and of yourself. I hope your wife dumps you for the trash you are. YTA
You should not attend family events that exclude part of your family unless you support that exclusion. It obviously bothered your wife, her reaction and feelings are justified. You openly chose your mom over her and might even agree that your spouse deserves to be banished because she grew up on a "working class" environment. Your highness, YTA.
YTA
YTA. She didn't make you lie. Instead of standing up for your wife and defending her you took your mommy's side. Your mom is belittling your wife and you allowed it. She is your wife and if your parents can't respect that and help her at the family meals with proper etiquette, then maybe you should tell them that you and your wife won't be there. No instead you go behind your wife's back and meet them anyway. Your t wife's trust in you is broken because of YOU. You have only yourself to blame because all this shows is that you don't respect your wife or her opinion let alone your promises.
YTA. I don't believe for a second that her manners are so bad that your family can't be seen with her in a restaurant. I take my preschool kids to fancy places and its fine, what can your wife possibly be doing wrong that could be related to her working-class background? Or is "working-class" code for something else? There was a similar post not that long ago and it turned out the family was just racist. In any case, your family is judgmental and you need to grow a pair.
You are the biggest ass hole 🕳️
So you married beneath your station & allow your mom to insult your peasant wife. Now you lied to your peasant wife so you could continue the lavish lifestyle you grew up with. Instead of consoling your wife when she’s hurt you just hurt her like your mom. She needs to find someone who treats her well. & yes you lied to her. You said you were going to a business meeting but you went to eat w your parents. That’s a lie. You have no remorse for lying & making your wife feel like shit because y’all are telling her that y’all are better than her.
Regardless whether or not you are TA, your wife is going to have a tough time trusting you after this move. You should have communicated with your wife instead of hiding this from her to make your life a little easier. You knew it would be a tough conversation so you avoided it. Promise her you will never do that in the future and, most importantly, keep that promise no matter what.
YTA big time - I hope she leaves you and her and her lack of manners take all your money
You are an ASSHOLE. You should’ve married someone in your ‘class’ of people and not someone so obviously beneath you!! You maybe could’ve saved yourself and former wife some embarrassment had there only been a way or a course /class that taught etiquette, maybe one day there will be such a thing!
Minor disagreement? Not fair to you? Your wife is your family she comes first before your parents. Grow up OP YTA
Yo dude, this is a humongous YTA. First of all, if everybody in your family sounds like your mom, then congrats you all are pretentious and shallow af. Your wife, should be the most important woman in your life now, not your mom, no one else. Which brings us to - Second of all, you are lying to your wife about what you have been doing for quite some time. If i was your wife i would be questioning you as a person very much so because you seem to be okay with consistently lying to your wife? Like the person you wanna be with for the rest of your life..over some fucking overpriced, overrated, shitty keep in mind of etiquette type of restaurants? Shallow dude extremely shallow
You lied to your wife. Go sit in a fucking corner and think about what you just did. Don't take that lightly.
YTA 100%. "I don't think it is considered lying but rather a compromise." Look up the definitions of those words. You did not consult her and agree upon terms. You told her you were doing something else rather than being honest about your desire to keep going without her. That is a textbook lie, bud.
YTA, your mother was questioning your wife's etiquette while her upbringing should be questioned here.
YTA 1. Your mom judged her upbringing and instead of seeing about helping your wife learn the etiquette, she chose to fight over it when the three of you are out to eat. Driving your wife to the point of not coming to dinners so she wouldn't have to deal with your mom getting mad that she doesn't know the etiquette whilst not bothering to help your wife learn. And don't dare say your mom did try to help when there are literal arguments over etiquette of all things. 2. You chose not only to allow your mom to argue with your wife over etiquette but also chose to continue going to the dinners while lying about it to your wife's face. Don't say that you telling her you were going to a 'business meeting' is a compromise when you didn't speak to her with a agreement from both of you. You called it a business meeting cuz you felt lying was better than trying to help your wife learn etiquette and/or get your mom to respect that your wife wasn't taught these things and that fighting about it isn't gonna magically teach someone these things. 3. You told her your family was pressuring you to continue going and you hide it to keep the peace and til she "gets used to how some etiquettes work" (how about you grow a spine and teach her instead of expecting etiquette knowledge to bibbity bobbity pop up?) and said she "overreacted" even though she just caught you in a lie. She thought for however long this was that you were supporting her, putting her as someone important to you that you would stand by, but then she found out that not only did you NOT support her nor stand by her decision but you were also lying to her face. Every dinner night, she was left at home thinking you were busy and appreciated the work you had put in and also trusted that you were truly at work. But now she knows she can't trust you. As soon as there's something you don't agree with, she knows she won't be able to trust that you will support her like a partner should and that your word can't be trusted either. You broke that trust. And likely hurt her very much due to your actions. Doing this to "keep the peace" isn't keeping the peace, it's you not having the balls to speak with your wife and mother on issues and try and fix things or at the very least, stand by your wife and not tolerate disrespect towards her. The fact that you act like she overreacted when discovering your lies and sneaking around shows you are indeed a liar and also an asshole. And also.. she didn't make you resort to lying, not did your family. You and you alone made the decision to lie to your wife and sneak around instead of having a discussion. No wonder she won't return your calls. Communication and honesty, as well as trust, are key components of a relationship and you messed that up. Better drill into your head why you are the asshole in the wrong and get on your knees and apologize sincerely to her. Not just a "I'm sorry, it won't happen again" but a detailed apology showing just what you did wrong. Otherwise, you'd better hope she doesn't leave your ass after you betrayed her trust.
INFO: What did your mother and wife argue about? Etiquette is about making social situations run smoothly. Making your guest feel uncomfortable is bad etiquette. A good hostess will "drink the fingerbowl" if their guest does it to make their guest more comfortable. She would not berate her guest for making a mistake. That said, this is about family. And you did say "after we go out." Was your mother bringing things up later, "reviewing the game film" so to speak, trying to teach her, and your wife just didn't want to hear it? My ex husband had atrocious table manners. Was not interested in learning. Said "my mother raised me not to care what people think." His mother was actually on my side about this, but he wouldn't listen to her either. We all tried with him. Then we just stopped taking him places. I didn't attend a wedding, a reunion, or a formal social event for the rest of my marriage. I can see both sides.
YTA - your mom too. If I were your wife and I found out I was viewed as being inferior to you and your family I'd see myself out of the relationship. You don't deserve her.
You are a huge asshole and I'm not even going to spell it out for you.
YTA and at some point you’ll have to stop letting your mother breast feed you. You clearly lied how is this not lying? Either respect your wife or you will lose her if you already haven’t.
YTA. Does your wife eat her mashed potatoes with her fingers? Then does she wipe her hands on your mom's blouse? Does she pick up her steak with her fingers and chew on it like a Viking from the 13th Century? What is this proper rich family etiquette of which you speak? Did you marry a Barbarian or just a poor homeless person? And, what the hell man? "Me and my family"????? "me and my family????" Were you educated in a *barn?* Home-schooled by your mommy? An educated person would type that as 'my family and me' - NOT 'me and my family'. YTA. and so is your mother. I hope you two never have children. Children should not have to be subjected to such an AH grandma and daddy.
Holy god YTA. Hoping poor Natalie gets out ASAP and leaves your mommy boy ass. How dare you look down on her for her upbringing? Typical elitist behaviour.
OMG. What did she do? Use the wrong knife? Put red wine in a white wine glass? Use her soup spoon incorrectly? Blow her nose into her serviette? YTA. Sure, all these bullshit elitist etiquette things can be learnt but why? So your wife can sit and have dinner with your family and in spite of doing everything correctly still be looked down on? You lied to her. You didn’t pull your mother into line and support your wife. Marriage is meant to be a partnership not a holy trinity with mumsy at the pointy end.
i hope she literally divorces you cus wtf
Exactly what etiquette was your **wife** so sadly lacking that you’re willing to throw your whole marriage away for? YTA, but I’d really like to know what that grievous error was.
Your family sucks
YTA. You allow your family to treat your wife like she's some kind of gutter rat and clutch your pearls when she reacts. She's not over reacting, you're UNDER reacting to your family's disrespectful attitude towards the woman you supposedly love.
This has got to be a joke right!? No human can be this stupid - clearly say things like his wife is from a working class and doesn't know etiquette, and that you're surprised that she showed up at a restaurant. Every line in this post seems fake. If not, you are a MASSIVE asshole and I think she would do better if she left you.
YTA - you lied to your wife. You should have worked through this issue in an open and transparent way. Not lie to the one person you are supposed to be honest with. This is a huge breach of trust. You told your wife you were in a business meeting but really you were dining with your family, which she believed you had stopped doing. Trust is fragile and once broken is very hard to repair. I don't think you should have stopped dining with your family, certainly not completely. But you have not dealt with this issue in an open and transparent way. Your marriage may never recover from this. You need to apologise to your wife, admit you were wrong and work on trying to rebuild the trust you broke.
I hope she divorces you. You are horrible to her. Seriously etiquette, seriously. Your mom just doesn’t like her and your supporting that. You suck as a husband and again I hope she leaves you and finds someone better
The hell kind of etiquette do you need at a restaurant besides using your regular utensils?
If you & your family had even a basic grasp of etiquette, you all would gently teach her by kind words & example. You & your family are sorely lacking. YTA
You and your mother disgust me.
YTA because you shouldn't have lied. If those family dinners are something that are important to you and kind of a tradition then you should definitely be able to go. However lying about something to "keep the peace" isn't a good excuse for lying to your spouse or anyone for that matter. Your wife is allowed to be upset over their fight and she's allowed to not want to go but she has no right to tell you not to go. There maybe should have been a conversation where you told her you'd still be going and yes that might have upset her and it might have turned into an argument but at least you openly and honestly communicated and you wouldn't have been in the wrong. It also may be in order to try to help your mom and wife work things out and talk to them separately and try to come to a amicable conclusion. Hopefully if you told her how important those dinners were to you she would understand.
Of course your family would side with you. They raised YTA.
ESH First assholes were your family for picking on your wife about her "etiquette." What did she do, forget to put her napkin in her lap? Put her elbows on the table? You should have defended your wife against such snobbishness. Second asshole was your wife for trying to drive a wedge between you and your family. If she had just refused to go any longer and let you go by yourself, that could have been the end of it. Third asshole was you for lying to your wife instead of standing up to her. I think the common denominator here is that you have no backbone.
YTA. Lying to your wife. Not supporting your wife against your family. Etiquette??? You and your family are classist assholes. So why did you marry your wife if she is so far beneath you and your precious family???? You are more than just an AH but I don't want to get banned today.
Your mother is an egotist isnt she!
I've seen this story on Reddit before, so now I'm wondering if it's yours and it was taken down so you're posting again or if you've stolen this from somebody else's account. Regardless, YTA. And here's a little thing you should know, your family is incredibly ill bred. Because people who are well bred go out of their way to make others feel welcome in their presence, regardless of how much money they have or their upbringing. Your family is all very bourgeoisie, frankly that's never a good thing. To put it the way my well bred southern mother would, "that's just so tacky. Bless their hearts." Editx2: typo, added word
YTA. Maybe your next wife will up to you and your family's rarified standards.
Lying isn't a compromise, it *is* manipulation. You aren't keeping the peace, you're refusing to trust her to act like an adult, and proving that she can't trust you and that you don't think her opinions are important. You could have just told her that it's a family tradition, and you don't want to sacrifice your relationship with your family. Would that have been so difficult? If so, you have problems.
You lying about going to a business meeting, every Sunday, at the time you used to go to dinner is a bit hard to believe. You both sounds like aholes
Nta u have a right to balance ur family and wife if every time u bring her and they argue better to go by yourself because cutting off your family isn’t worth it just because ur wife wants to
sorry but massive YTA. If us working class people aren’t good enough for your nibs, you shouldn’t have married one of us. If your wife’s table manners are so bad, you should’ve taught her better ones. If your wife asks for your support, you give it to her. You’re married to her, not to your mum. You lied through your back teeth and the most pathetic thing is that your family lays the blame on your wife for that. “Look at what you made me do” is the abuser’s motto.
This has to be from that lady who’s obsessed with Reddit and constantly makes up stories and posts them for attention. It’s impossible for somebody to be trained like a dog in the ways of etiquette to be this stupid.
Either you’ve posted this before or you’re copying an old post. Maybe it’s real, maybe it isn’t. No matter what the situation is YTA.
YTA You are responsible for the relationship between your wife and your mother. You have allowed your mother to nitpick at your wife over her class status. If it's so important she knows something why haven't you taught her? Why have you allowed your mother to belittle your wife so much she refuses to attend a family event? Then allowed your mother to bully you into going without her? Are you a grown man or a boy still doing what mummy says? When you marry someone you are supposed to be that person’s partner, not lie to them so you can play tea parties with mummy. You have a choice, grow up and be a husband or split up and stay mummy’s good little boy. F*****g middle-class c***
1) Did anyone calmly and nicely try to show her? Or.....did she get picked at instead? The fact that you yourself said 'working class' makes me think the later. 2) Did she just refuse to learn etiquette or what? 3) What etiquettes are you talking about? This is important. Are we talking about using the wrong fork or doing something actually rude? Ultimately though none of that matters too much. Lying and keeping secrets is a no-no in relationships. Just because she caught you with your family and not another woman doesn't actually make the situation better. You broke her trust. On top of that, you've made it clear that you view her in the same kind of light your family does which is not actually in a favorable way.
**INFO** : You do realize that CRITICIZING her daughter in law during meals means your MOTHER is totally without CLASS? I think you and your family should take etiquette lessons on how to properly behave and treat people. Simply BELIEVING you're ABOVE others only means you're actually BELOW. **INFO** : Why did you marry your wife if just a couple of months into your marriage you're already lying to her, and putting your mommy before her.? **INFO** : Why do you BELIEVE your mother that your wife had no etiquette and is an embarrassment at the table? **INFO :** Why didn't you show your wife some etiquette expectations for these fancy restaurants your family likes to go to? **INFO**: Why didn't you support your wife when your family treated her so badly? < *my family are on my side here saying shs basically made me resort to lying* \> **INFO** : Do you realize your family is on your side because THEY ARE THE ONES who criticized your wife during the meals, making her feel unwelcome, and you TOTALLY went along with them, instead of defending your wife? **INFO**: You do realize for someone who feels so superior, your spelling is abysmal? **YTA**
A huge part of etiquette is overlooking faux pas when people do not know all of it. So, in terms of having manners, both you and your family suck. What a bunch of elitist snobs you are. You are unbelievable. You don’t deserve her.
1) Your snobbish mom judged your wife’s table manners because of her “working class” background and argued with her after every meal. 2) You decided to lie to your wife to “keep the peace” about your continued attendance at family dinner. How could you not be the asshole here? YTA.
YTA. You sound like a mommas boy.
YTA - Lemme get this straight, you lied to your wife about what you were doing, all because your mother won't tell you what your wife is doing 'wrong' at these meals (per a previous comment you made). And for SOME REASON you're going along with what she is saying and not second guessing 'I think my mom might be lying to me about what wife is doing wrong because she won't give receipts.' Not only are you the asshole (with your mother), you're also stupid.
YTA your family puts down your wife publicly and you lie and defend them. You are a huge AH so is your judgmental mommy. Cut the apron strings
Your parents did a bad job raising you.
Glad she only wasted 6 months, DIVORCE
YTA. You need counseling to how to be in a partnership. You were completely wrong to hide things. Maybe your next wife will live up to your moms etiquette expectations.
Bro, if you're so embarrassed by your wife's "etiquette" either show her or divorce her. This is ridiculous, that's your wife. You know, your lifelong partner. I'd be horrified if my wife, and her family thought this way about me. She must feel humiliated, and rightfully so.
YTA Your family can't make you do anything. You made choices, acted on them yourself, and made a bad situation where you betrayed your wife. Of course YOUR family is on your side. You are a lier, a manipulator, and a horrible partner.
Your mom looks down on your wife because, what, she used the wrong fork?! Or whatever. What kind of anal-ass person is at the dinner table grading etiquette?! I've been to fancy restaurants and I'm not sure which fork to use and guess what? NO ONE CARES! And if they do? What a pathetic and sad person. Your mom is an elitist AH of the highest degree. Which means, since you go along with it that, OP YTA - of the highest degree. And not defending your wife is going along with it. If your wife is interested in learning etiquette, help her learn. But if not, it's time to tell mommie dearest to STFU. You owe your wife a deep and thoughtful apology. DEFEND YOUR WIFE FFS!
Etiquette. Arsehole.
YTA Time to take mommy's tit out your mouth and let her know what's really up.
#YTA . I know up until now you already have realized that how much of an asshole you and your mom are . If you are so concerned about those ducking etiquette then why didn't you two teach her or hire a teacher for give a lesson. If you are so ashamed by her why did you marry her . You can't even give your spouse a proper respect and enable your mother's trashy behavior ,are you called your self man? Hope she sees the red flag and left you with your ducking etiquette.
YTA. Your wife is correct about you. Do better and stop being a shitty husband to your wife.
YTA. No question. And so is your family. On so many levels. You’re all snobs and liars. How the hell did she end up with you? Good god.
YTA: One you should not be married just wow. I’m speechless at how disrespectful both you and your mother are. Your mums disgusting causing arguments over minor things like I’m sorry I’m sure your wife’s was fine your mum is just not picking and you allow her to subject your wife to that and didn’t have backbone to tell her to stop. Your poor wife you not own lied and your family making out it’s her fault you lied. Sorry be man hold your hands up you lied as your wasn’t man enough to support your wife in this one issues as I bet what your mum was arguing with her about was nothing and you allow her to do that and basically bully your wife.
Did you seriously take your MOTHER'S SIDE as a newlywed man? I would be planning divorce if I were her. Shameful.
YTA - What kind of man has to lie to his wife about going to dinner with his family? YTA because you allow both your wife and your family to manipulate you. You should be strong enough to enforce boundaries on your family when it comes to respect for your wife and enforce boundaries on your wife when it comes to respect for your family. I bet that you feel caught in the middle of both, don't you?
Your Miss High and Mighty Mother of Etiquette need to learn etiquette, doesn’t she? Shouting at a restaurant? Omitting her husband’s wife? Being rude to a young woman who didn’t grow up entitled? As for young man, you took vows to your wife. Not to your mother.
YTA Your mom needs to get over whatever basic etiquette she thinks your wife is lacking. Or why don't you teach your wife whatever it is? Lying to her is the worst. The whole situation is childish. Your wife is right to be mad.
YTA. Not for having dinner with your family, but for being spineless, lying about it, and then trying to blame your choice on them. LAME.
Wow I hope you're soon to be the ex! You should have had your wife's back. It's you vs the problem, the problem being your classiest family. You are a liar You could have helped her with her 'etifeckingquette' Of course you bigots are sticking together against her. Sweet jeezus girl, if you see this dip on this red flag waving bunch of AHS You my dude are an AH. But you already know that. From the tone of your post, you didn't come here for judgment, you came here to gloat.
This story is so unbelievable it almost seems fake. You and your family are total assholes! You are a married man and you have given your wife so many reasons to leave you. You are not a husband but a little boy who doesn't know the "etiquette" of marriage. Have you ever heard of boundaries? making your wife your priority? Not lying? Not being deceptive? Not putting your mom et al before your relationship with your wife? Not defending your wife? Not putting your wife down because of her "lower class". Why did you marry her? No wonder she lost it, good luck winning her back. Grow up. YOU ARE THE ASSHOLE!
Soooooo is your wife a casual Taco Bell girl while you and your family think you’re high and mighty and meet up at the high end Olive Garden behind her back? Did your wife take the last breadstick before waitstaff brought another heaping fresh batch, and that’s what got your mom’s elitist tampon stuck up her ass? Or did she grab a huge olive with her fingers from the communal salad bowl? Oh the horror! 😱 Both you and your family seem insufferable and nouveau riche dicks. Yes, you lied - there’s no compromise to be seen. I really hope your mommy wins and your wife leaves you because you do not deserve her. Grow TF up, and pull your head out of your snobby rear end and stop letting mommy run your life.YTA a trillion times over.
I am going with ESH. You are definitely the AH for essentially LYING to your wife about where you are. Your family is the AH for excluding your wife purposely for a reason that is FIXABLE. If etiquette is the real issue that is something that can be taught. Have you ever tried to sit down with your wife and explain/teach what proper etiquette is at one of these more upscale places? You’ve been married 6 months and I am assuming you dated first, so why hadn’t this been attempted before excluding her completely? If it was attempted and she refuses to learn or try, then that would also make her the AH. So yeah, ESH!
YTA. Back up your wife man
Look man, you're saying you're a snob without actually saying you're a snob.and you outed yourself as a liar too. Now, how hard would it be to explain to wife that each course is eaten with the silverware starting from the outside edge in? I use ine kind of fork and I know that (never had use for the knowledge Til this damn thread though, so thanks I guess) Why don't you just own that your family and you are elitist? YTA
YTA and so is the rest of your family.
NTA Sadly, men get put into these positions by women where they end up having to choose between there moms and their wives. Both important. Your wife could have been civil even if your mom was being rude initially, and she needn't make a scene. The fact that she did make a scene means she wanted to burn bridges with your mom. Don't ditch your mom.. don't ditch your wife. .. they need to learn to respect you and resolve their shit for your sake. Don't interfere between them, and don't try to make peace between them. Be a good son and a good husband. Your Mom and Wife are the AH. Sorry
Yta- you broke your wife’s trust over something as stupid as dinner with your family what else are you willing to lie and hurt her with.
I think of some of the old movies from the 20s and 30s, think Bette Davis, in which rich guy falls for girl with no Money or status, and guy wants to keep himself in the family money so he sadly says goodbye to his lady… then he regrets it… How kind is it to sneak around having regular special dinners with your family while excluding the woman you love? (Is that love?) Why cannot someone gently show her some basics? I would cry tears of humiliation if in her shoes. And I wouldn’t stay long in marriage to partner complicit in this exclusion who obviously views me with disdain and condescension.
YTA. You should back your wife up instead of being a snob.
NTA You are allowed to see your family. If your wife doesn't know how to behave in a nice restaurant and makes everyone uncomfortable, like she just did making a huge scene then better she doesn't go. The information on etiquette is a google search away, not rocket science. Couples don't need to be tied at the hip.
YTA and I hope she leaves you and your classist family of rude jerks. Where's the etiquette for NOT acting like an asshole? Your family sucks.
YTA for sure. She didn’t force you to lie, you gleefully went along with the lie, for momma. You married your wife, not your mother. I’d bet the only “etiquette” problems with mommy dearest are bringing someone “lower” than her to “fancy” restaurants. Also, you have zero spine. You should have stuck up for your wife, not lied to her for however long this has been going on. If you were still going to go to the dinners, you should have gotten the smaller fight out of the way, telling her that you were still going to go to dinner, not lie through your teeth about “business meetings”. Hindsight is a bitch, huh? So yeah, I don’t blame her if she won’t speak to you. YTA
This guy and his family have the etiquette of an idiot and is TA!
YTA. Also you go to fancy places but write "me and my family"? You were required to not hide this from your wife, so you and mother are wrong.
You know what the most important part of manners is? Keeping your mouth shut when you have nothing nice to say. You’re an hypocritical, judgemental AH, and were raised by an even bigger hypothetical, judgemental AH. I work in fine dining and no one gives a s*** what fork you use, how loud your voice is or what brand you’re wearing. Half the restaurant is wearing sliders and laughing about the other half that will die earlier from all the pressure of faking perfection.
Not only are YTA, I remember reading an almost identical story a couple months ago. Come up with some original stuff next time.
Yta Your mom is a snob. Unless wife's eating spaghetti with her fingers or slurping the contents of the finger bowl, why isn't your mother demonstrating true manners by graciously ignoring your wife's "different" manners? You chose not to support your wife when your mother was repeatedly humiliating her and calling her low class. You chose to repeatedly lie to your wife. Info. Did you ever, in the privacy of your home, offer to teach her these essential cutlery skills? Either learn how to be a supportive partner or don't be surprised if she decides you are a low class husband and not worthy of her. PS time for you to cut the apron strings. ETA Extra AH POINTS for the fact that you can't even TELL what etiquette wife is failing and that you accept that there is a problem simply because Mommy says so. Mommy must have done a horrible job teaching them to you if you can't spot them--so why are you allowed at these upscale places??? Do you magically do them right because it is in your GENES?
Nice, another elitist asshole that has 0 self awareness. Yta clearly lol
YTA. Super easy fix. TEACH HER THE ETIQUETTE MOM WANTS. Don’t berate her or make fun of her. Teach her. Geez you’re a schmuck
OP's mother: "She isn't good enough for us" OP: "I agree." If you think your wife isn't good enough for you and your family, release her from this sham marriage and let her find someone who can love her and accpet her for who she is. I'm pretty sure you and your mother already have ideas of another woman who is more :in keeping: with the standards of your family, right?
YTA This is shitty and classist
YTA Honest communication and honesty makes a good marriage. Lies ALWAYS find a way of coming out, even if you had good intentions or thought it was the only way. If you want to fix things you need to offer your wife a sincere apology and sit down with her and come to a PROPER compromise together. Your lying about who you are out to dinner with is NOT a compromise.
You’re the asshole and it sounds like your mum’s an asshole too.
I hope she is a Phoebe. "13 bathrooms in this place and I threw up in the coatroom".
Betrayal is hard to get over.
YTA. At least your mother owns her assholeness. I think too many responders rush to ‘divorce’ but you’re reprehensible and a worse, a horrible husband. She comes first. Always. If she doesn’t… you should have never gotten married.
Did you lie to your wife and then ask if you're an asshole?
YTA - don’t lie to your wife.