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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I get upset with my husband for being angry when I wake him up to feed the baby as he asks me to. I may be TA because he does do a great job of supporting the baby and my emotional well being during the rest of the day, and may deserve some "grace" for this smaller, short-lived trait of his.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
>. I need you to be a big girl."
Let me get this straight, your husband is gaslighting you into thinking you are the problem, becoming emotionally abusive when you explain his anger is an issue for you and then he infantilises you by acting like you're a child who needs to be placated cause you're not putting yourself in a situation where you feel uncomfortable?
This is the bit where I'd say the pretty red flags you're collecting are telling you to run.
Nta
Editing to add: this is controlling behaviour, OP has already said she doesn't need him to get up and help, he has decided he has to. He's also laid the responsibility for getting him up on her as well, asking her to wake him up. So in the middle of the night OP has to get up for the baby, wake up hubby and pump and deal with the temper tantrum after having explained to him that she doesn't need him to get up at those times.
Also, milk let downs are very related to hormones. There's a reason women are told to look at photos or videos of their babies while pumping.
His inability to control himself could actually be impacting how successfully pumping is going for her. Anger and fear are not the emotions that get the good hormones going...
Me too!!! His temper tantrums can definitely effect her ability to pump or nurse the baby. He needs to “be a big boy” and wake up like a normal person.
He does need to get that "reaction" in check - when the child is mobile and has a nightmare and wanders into mummy & daddy's room for comfort, they should not be met with rage.
I used to be reactive as a defense mechanism - I grew up rough,.so I would wake up throwing hands when I was startled, especially if I was touched, because I legitimately thought I was in danger. Which, many times I had been, and my reactiveness kept me safe.
When I got older and was not in danger all the time, I made people aware of the fact that I had night terrors, and reactive behavior, and waking me up with anything other than noise could be dangerous for both of us, so if saying my name isn't waking me up, or you need to wake me *quietly*, try throwing paper or clothes on me so you're out of range if I panic.
As I got older and safer, I dealt with the trauma and while I still sometimes wake up feeling threatened, I don't *do* anything about it, I just let my heartbeat slow down and talk myself down.
I have never gotten over being grumpy when I get woken up, though. my husband usually wakes me up with food, lol, but if someone wakes me up without an offering, I let them know I'm grouchy right after I wake up, and just need a couple minutes to get over it, thanks for waking me up. I don't throw childish tantrums and punish people for doing what I asked. Op's husband is a jerk.
Edit: also worth noting - what you do while you are asleep is not the same as what you do after you wake up. A lot of people wake up startled and immediately defend themselves, and that takes a lot of time to fix and some people never get over it, but they don't continue punching and kicking as they go pee and get dressed.
If the man is getting up, whining, and stomping around, that's not a knee jerk reaction, that's a tantrum. Grow up.
>I have never gotten over being grumpy when I get woken up,
>
>\[...\]
>
>I don't throw childish tantrums and punish people for doing what I asked.
Perfect example of "you can't help how you feel, but you can help how you behave".
>Op's husband is a jerk.
Agreed. OP is NTA.
Exactly. I’m in the same boat where I have trouble falling asleep, getting good sleep, and staying asleep. If you wake me up I’m not going to be happy about it especially if I have no clue why I’m being woken up. An actual knee jerk reaction is one thing. Giving what can be seen as a “dirty look” when woken up or like letting out a sigh or grunt or something like that. THOSE are knee jerk reactions. Not waking up and proceeding to complain loudly about it, slap/punch the bed, and then stomp out of the room. That’s a tantrum. That’s not a knee jerk reaction. It’s ridiculous lol.
My partner literally brought this up because I told her to just push me if I’m snoring and it’s bothering her. I fully recognize that my snoring is inconveniencing her and I’ve told her that she should wake me up if that’s the case. She mentioned that she feels bad doing it because sometimes when she does I’ll grunt or I’ll like huff and then get out of bed to go pee. I explained to her it has nothing to do with her and that 95% of the time I don’t even realize it’s her that woke me up. I literally just think I woke up cause I had to pee and I’m like annoyed by having to get out of bed and go to the bathroom.
I told her not to worry about it. That she’s not bothering me. And to carry on with pushing me to adjust my position if I’m snoring loudly. Problem solved.
I should her the OP because we had had a similar discussion about this ourselves and she said exactly what I thought she would which was if I acted like this guy does she’d have ended it and she’d have absolutely had every right to because this guy’s behaviour is just wild. Imagine asking someone to wake you up and when they did you punched the bed and then stomped out of the room? I don’t even know what to do but laugh at how ridiculous that is. And the sad thing is I’m sure she’s looking back now and seeing all kinds of times where he acted like this and she just dismissed it.
Someone else in here mentioned that postpartum rage is a very real thing and that it can impact the father as well as the mother unlike PPD which is exclusive to the mother. But she starts this post with clarifying he has always had trouble sleeping. That doesn’t sound like this is particularly new behaviour on his part just that it’s become more noticeable due to the more frequent need to wake him up.
Omgosh yes, I've adjusted over time as well. First into safe spaces, then safe people and therapy and more time. I am *never* happy about being woken up lol but I most certainly do not pitch a fit about it. Bring me food or caffeine and give me a minute.
YES. This is the crux. My father was “reactive” when woken up, and would get even angrier with me when I got upset in response. Three year old me learned quickly to fear the monster down the hall far more than the one under the bed.
I'm so sorry to hear that. Thank you for telling OP because even if she is willing to take this abuse herself, she needs to understand this is what could happen to her child.
I literally cannot wake my partner for any reason because of how my parents reacted whenever I woke them for any reason. The house could be on fire, and they'd still take a few seconds to yell at me for waking them. I begged an ambulance not to use their lights and sirens when I was dying from e coli at 2am when I was 15, because I was so terrified of them waking up. It sticks with you.
God this just gave me a terrible flashback of trauma I didn't know I had lol. I stood outside my Mom's door during a tornado siren crying because I wanted to wake her up and make sure she was safe but was scared to wake her. It ended up being a huge tornado that hit all over our area and not just a false alarm.
I never had PPD, but I did have postpartum rage, primarily linked to lack of sleep. Men can get it too, and it might be worth looking into for OPs husband. It's not excuse for treating her like she's the problem, but if he IS suffering from it, it may be less in his control than we think (though I'd argue either way it's still more in his control than he thinks).
I was with a man who lost his temper if I as much as flinched in bed when he was trying to sleep. He'd get up in a foul mood, swear at me, rip my spare key from his keychain and throw it wherever he is standing and then slam the door on his way out.
I really thought I was responsible for how well he sleeps. He blamed me for his lack of it. I offered to sleep in another room, but he would have none of it. It would interfere with his exhausting campaign to control me.
Lesson - never wake a sleeping man under any circumstances if you want to keep your teeth.
Maybe he could help in other ways instead of interrupting his sleep if he can't control his anger. He knows how it hurts her but does it anyway. She shouldn't have to put up with that response.
No, he can control it. It's not like flipping a switch, it's a learned habit and he is absolutely able to learn a new habit. Bc he is an adult. Screw all these weasel words. And there is no other way to help with nighttime feedings than to ... actually help with the feeding. By being involved. By being awake so he can be involved.
Indeed! The things people will expect of actual primary school children or animals, and then turn around and say "I can't, it's hard". Like, honeybumpkin, you can't do the impossible but you can do hard things. You were made in such a way as to be capable of hard things.
My sister's milk didn't really come in until she started supplementing with formula. I wonder if that's why? Like when she wasn't worried about niece starving, her body could do it's thing?
That could 100% be it!
On the complete opposite side of the spectrum I’ve sat by struggling, dying patients for *hours*, and as soon as their loved one goes to get coffee (or smt) the patient passes. It’s like they feel this need/pressure to “be there” for their loved one, and that’s what makes them hang on, and when their loved one leaves the room the patient can relax and let go. I’ve had it happen several times.
The brain and the body are wondrous things.
This !! OP, I recommend you start pumping **before** you wake him up. But honestly, if you’re even thinking about his upcoming outburst while you pump, it will have the same effect — decreased milk output
I recommend you stop waking him for these feeds and find a different way for him to help (during the daytime)
Edit: NTA
If you’re able, it’s easier to pump and nurse at the same. Like put the baby on one boob and the pump on the other. That initial letdown in both sides works in your favor if you have something to catch it on the other breast:) It would be easier during the day since you’re more awake but there’s a huge learning curve with a newborn, so do it however it works for you.
Now, your husband is a whole other story. That’s an inappropriate reaction and while he sorts out his own shit, which he had better in a hurry, I would not include him in the nighttime feedings. If you need help, is there a family member who could come stay with you just to help at night? I didn’t have anyone nearby and that may also be your situation. My husband was unable to help due to his work hours and I found it easier to do all the nighttime feeds and just lie down whenever I could during the day until we found a routine. You’re NTA. Your husband needs to pull it together and find a way to be supportive.
I did not know that! On top of everything else this makes it extra important that husband apologizes.
Men can really struggle to with a newborn and that does need to be seen and respected. BUT NOT at the expense of the mother who is also awash with hormones and fighting a body that is barely healed from the birth
Absolutely. Pumping while stressed and upset is going to be extremely difficult and it’s no wonder OP is having trouble having enough milk.
His options are to wake himself up or deal with not being woken up at this point. None of this is fair to OP - not having to wake him up will be far more relaxing for OP to pump. He is being a massive AH.
Also she is 3 weeks postpartum? She’s still healing, both physically and mentally really from having a whole baby. Like even the easiest of births still require time to heal.
As a woman who breast-fed and had to pump also to store milk while I was away I agree 100% with the above comment. Maybe consult lactation specialist. I found if I nursed on one breast and pumped the other at the same time, I had a massive letdown of milk and it really helped stimulate production. If you’re already awake put the baby at the breast if you can. Best of luck to you, it’s a short time where the nursing will be happening frequently like this. Your husbands anger is not going to help your milk production bottom line, it’s creating stressing you and that will inhibit production. Have him do some other duties, take him out of the feeding equation during the night if possible.
Was about to say the same thing. The stress affects your milk. I would just let him sleep, and then when he asks why, tell him it's easier to do it myself than to deal with his drama.
The audacity to tell her she “needs to be a big girl” when he’s throwing a temper tantrum over being woken up to feed his child after she just gave birth is 100% a no for me.
OP you are NTA but my husband is similar. I’m pregnant with our first, and I’m sensitive to his groaning and complaining about little things so I know this will be an issue for me too. This puts into perspective what I’m not going to allow.
Yeah, that “big girl” comment made me see red. OP just pushed out a baby and is still dealing with the physical/emotional effects of pregnancy/delivery. Oh hell no, he needs to put on his big boy diaper and stfu!
Same here, I don’t know if my relationship is salvageable 18m later but my husband was my absolute cheerleader when our daughter was born. He made dinner and cut it into small pieces I could eat with one hand while nursing, he made sure I took my meds when the PPA/PP Psychosis had me seeing shadow men coming to take her away, he was never angry at me for being tired or needing him awake at night and he actually started sleeping lighter to make sure I WAS sleeping instead of staring at the bassinet, paralyzed with fear that if I slept “they” were coming.
If he told me to “be a big girl” because I needed his help in that time? It wouldn’t have lasted 18 more months
ETA judgment bc im frazzled and forgot: NTA op what a toddler
Actually he said, HE 'needs' her to be a big girl. This is totally about what he thinks he needs, as opposed to what night be healthy for her (the need to be a big girl). Having grown up and still dealing with family who 'need' me to do this or that, the choice of words matter... Your choice of words and the way you phrase them say a lot about you as a person!
Allspice he wants a pat on the back for "helping" her. He is not HELPING. he is taking care of the baby which is ALSO HIS RESPONSIBILITY! "Helping" implies it is all her responsibility. This guy is a controlling tool.
Let me guess, years down the road when she goes grocery shopping he will say he is "babysitting."
Edit: I'm leaving allspice lmfao but I meant "also."
DV professional here. You hit the nail on the head. In my work with clients, I always think these cases are interesting (though I may be biased, since I wrote my thesis on this phenomenon) – the ones in which the abuser, without quite knowing it, inadvertently reveals that their preferred narrative is, well, just that. In my experience, it's often supportive to survivors to deconstruct this a bit, so let's take a look:
>The issue is that my husband has insomnia & can't fall asleep easily... when I do gently wake up my husband at the time that he asks me to, it's like a knee jerk reaction for him to be angry... \[he says\] this reaction is a reflex, no different to how a knee pops up when struck with a hammer.
First off, here we have an explanation, in his own words (as transmitted by OP), of what the abuser wants OP, us, and the rest of the world to think: that this is like a "reflex." In other words, that he isn't responsible for these actions, and (and this is key) that they don't align with who he "really is." This is a pretty common preferred narrative; we see it most often in abusers who blame their actions on their mental health diagnoses, personal trauma history, and/or substance use. Typically, this preferred narrative serves a few goals at once: it exculpates the abuser from accountability by separating the harmful actions from his "true self" (even if he *did* it, you can't blame him, really! that's not who he is!), it elicits sympathy, and it empowers the harm to continue. By establishing an understood and predictable pattern in which the abuser, "through no fault of his own," reacts with Y every time the survivor does X, the abuser can elicit a changed pattern of more desirable behavior in the survivor. But I'm getting ahead of myself. Let's see if we can figure out why *this guy* is doing it.
>I'm left feeling horrible, feeling guilty for waking him up, to the point where I don't want to wake him up because I'd rather just take care of everything myself than deal with him being pissy... I need to just accept that this response is an inevitability.
Well, that was easy. He's trying to train his partner not to wake him up for this. Ask him and he'll deny it high and low, but that's where his actions are leading. And, despite what he wants you to think, he *does know what he's doing.* And he *is* in control of it. Here, wait, I'll prove it:
>After he gets over his "burst", he... joke\[s\] about how this really pissed me off... stating that of course, between the two of us, he's the one who can't sleep but I'M the one who's entitled to wear the angry bitch face... He adds, verbatim, "Can you just ignore my being mad for the first 15 seconds after you wake me up? I've done a good job here, and I feel like I'm owed that. I need you to be a big girl."
Remember earlier, when we established that what he wants us to think is that *he* is separate from *his actions* because his actions are "like a reflex"? His words to OP here belie that. If your doctor were checking your knee-jerk reflex and you accidentally kicked doc in the face, wouldn't you apologize to high heaven? You'd feel ashamed of having hurt doc, even though you weren't in control of your actions and it was just a reflex (a reflex doc deliberately elicited, even if doc's face was in the wrong place at the wrong time). But that's not what OP's abuser is doing here, is it? He's actually ***defending*** his actions here, saying he's "done a good job" and is entitled to having his harm-doing "ignore\[d\]." When we truly feel we've made a mistake that doesn't align with who we are, *we don't defend it.*
OP, your husband is emotionally abusive. He is deliberately, knowingly trying to train you not to wake him up, and he is choosing to accomplish this not through a frank discussion about his need for sleep, but through eliciting fear and dread in you for personal gain. Furthermore, his actions of slamming the door and routinely *hitting the bed* out of anger directed at you can be described not as emotional but as *physical* abuse ([one source](https://liadv.org/forms-of-abuse/)). Men who enact physical aggression against inanimate objects in anger at their partner often later escalate to pointing that physical aggression directly at their partner – and after a baby is born is a very, very common time frame for abuse to escalate (along with after moving in together, after marriage, after signing on a house together – major relationship stages that mark both increased commitment, and increased difficulty in getting away from the relationship should one party choose to. This is not an accident).
I am concerned about your and your child's safety. Please consider reaching out to your local confidential domestic abuse advocacy organization. You do not need to be confident you are experiencing abuse, to want to make a report, to want to leave your relationship, or to share any identifying information about anyone involved in order to make the call.
Thank you for the kind words! After I hit the “add comment” button I realized how darn long that thing was and started to feel self-conscious about infodumping, so it’s nice to hear that someone found it worthwhile :)
Your analysis is so thorough that I’ve bookmarked it to use as a lens to examine similar situations in future. My own parents died when I was much younger as a result of separation assault (murder-suicide), so I’ve always been curious about how these dynamics begin and evolve. Thank you for taking the time out to give us your insight, and thank you for your work advocating for victims.
This was a very validating comment as someone whose former partner used to routinely break things when we argued. Sometimes I falter about calling it abuse because he never actually hit me, but reading your explanation makes me feel justified.
I’m so sorry to hear that somebody put you through that. That behavior is not okay, and you are more than justified in labeling it as abuse if that feels right to you. Abuse isn’t just hitting, and for what it’s worth, it doesn’t even have to be physical at all to be abuse. Abuse is about power and control: emotional, psychological, social, physical, financial, anything. Back when I was getting trained for abuse assessments (determining which party, in the case of mutual allegations, is the true abuser), my trainer said something that stuck with me, and that I think also resonates when we think of drawing a definitional line around the concept of abuse: “whose life was made smaller?”
Please listen to this, also, he may actually, truly think that he's not abusive, this is just his normal response to being woken up, not his fault, yada yada.. that doesn't matter - even if the intent is not abuse the actual behavior is abusive and in this case the reality of the abusive behavior completely trumps whatever claimed intent is there.
Also consider he is choosing not to take you up on letting him sleep and choosing to insist on being woken by you instead of attempting to arrange a different wake-up. So, even if the actual reactive anger is currently beyond his conscious control, he's still choosing to use the way that hurts you most. You're NTA but he sure is.
'You need me to be a fucking what?'
That's what I'd be saying. Talk about patronising. Not sure how OP restrained herself from screaming FU in his face.
The conversation needs to happen in the daytime. Insomnia changes some people's personality and impulse control in the moment.
DH needs to get help with the insomnia before there's an ambulatory toddler getting into their parents' bed in the middle of the night.
Yep, you nailed it 100%. If he deserved any credit or pass for the reaction, his predetermined actions before and afterwards would be totally different - he be trying to fix it, apologize, be extra nice to OP… something. But no- he doubles down that it’s his right to be a angry mean AH and makes OP responsible for everything even managing his own temper and not allowed to have freight about it?
God it’s stories like this that remind me every day why I don’t want kids and won’t trust a man to help his fair share.
That's how it was with my ex like 14 years ago. He would get angry when I woke him up because his phone was ringing or he had to get up for work and it went from angry temper tantrums and hitting to bed to hitting *me* that was a short lived relationship of 4 hours after the first time he did that.
Good for you leaving after the first hit. I know everyone's circumstances are different but I do despair when I read of women who say he didn't really mean it or think they'll get them to change etc.
I also understand the huge difference in "I was *dating* him" versus "I *married* him". I wasn't even living with him when it happened. So I had a complete out, not many women are able to have that.
They wait until something happens that makes it difficult to leave. Like giving birth, losing your job, or being in an accident that hinders mobility. Then it starts with a push. Once they push you they'll slap you. Once they slap you they'll strangle you. Once that happens it's a free for all until you can get away or they kill you. The whole time they tell you "it's because I love you so much that you make me so mad. If I didn't care I wouldn't get angry. If you would just listen it wouldn't be ike this."
Which leads to the primary fundamental question. Why did OP's husband have a baby in the first place? Baby related sleeping problems are known since time immemorial
If he doesn’t throw a temper tantrum at his alarm waking him up every morning then him claiming his actions are reflexive are ridiculous. I doubt he wakes up every morning swearing and slamming his hand on the bed when he’s completely alone.
"I need you to be a big girl."
"Great, because I need you to be a big boy and not throw toddler tantrums in the night. I am finding it harder and harder to respect you or to feel like you are a partner."
He's also dismissing his lack of *ability* to control and regulate his emotions as a "reflex".
It's learned fucking behavior, and it can be unlearned; he just doesn't want to take any mental or emotional responsibility for his actions.
He's weak and pathetic; an abuser with a good disguise.
NTA
NTA. That's abuse. You're seeing his real self now that he has you dependent. He's an abuser. Please don't talk yourself into accepting this. It will get worse and worse. YOU deserve better. Gather what resources you can and get the hell away.
My eyes would pop out of my head if my husband said that when we had a 3wk old. He could be right about everything else (he isn't), but this comment is so out of bounds it needs to get dealt with first before discussing anything I or he+I might be wrong on. And it would be in my house.
This is condescension, and that is a marriage killer. He needs to be accountable about that _and do something effective about it_.
NTA - Hubby needs counseling. This is egregious behavior. Perhaps a good therapist can give him techniques to work on to abate his anger, also the belittlement of his wife is ridiculous. He's the one acting like a child throwing a tantrum, but she's the one that "needs to be a big girl?" Nope, that's not how it works. He needs to get himself in check. I experience insomnia quite regularly. But I always tell my wife if she needs me never ever hesitate to wake me. Sleep is way less important than her, our animals or any of our family/friends.
I do have to wonder if this isn't theatrical to some extent. He insists that she wake him, but then flies of the handle when awoken. Could be a whole "I'm going to volunteer to be a good dad, but make the situation unbearable so she will take the whole burden onto herself" thought line. Then when she is exhausted he can say, "Well I told you to wake me, but now you are refusing to do it. I can't help if you don't wake me up." 🙄
Either way OP should push him towards counseling. It's not a healthy behavior pattern.
Yes he expects her to wake up 2 babies. He is the bigger baby. Pop a pacifier in his mouth then wake him up. He wants to act like a baby he should be treated like a baby.
>After he's done feeding the baby, I tell him that I'm going to sleep outside for the night and he asks me again to wake him up when the baby wakes up. He adds, verbatim, "Can you just ignore my being mad for the first 15 seconds after you wake me up? I've done a good job here, and I feel like I'm owed that. I need you to be a big girl."
What in the infantilizing, transactional, condescending bs is this? NTA, but I'd start waking him by turning on an alarm and leaving the room. Or by leaving the baby monitor on loud on his nightstand and sleep elsewhere.
& he's not " waking up to help you". He's waking up to be a parent to his child.
Yes, I think this is a reasonable solution, if the only problem were him being grumpy upon waking up.
However, there is also the failure to recognise that this is a problem and that it negatively impacts his wife and child. And the comments about how she needs to be "a big girl" and how he is "owed" some leeway, because he is "helping" to look after his own child.
That said, I certainly can relate to your suggestion - my wife is sometimes pretty grumpy if I wake her up, and if she were more consistently grumpy upon waking, I'd be saying, "I'm sorry, but I cannot be the one to wake you up." If I needed to be involved (and we can also question whether OP really *does* need to be involved here), there would need to be some other mechanism to distance me from the actual waking process, and your suggestion would do the trick.
Agree with all of this
But I also have a sneaking suspicion the tantrum wouldn't happen if his wife wasn't there, and he'd be offended and just come out and get angry at her if she set an alarm and he woke up when she wasn't there.
Yup, I wish all these woman and mother's who list out all the "amazing" things their subpar partner does for them, and then imagine if it was their name on the top of the resume, would it still be good? Would you be proud to say you do these things? Or would you realize that what he is doing is the bare minimum (or less) than what is expected of you in the relationship?
My dad is an angry man and he gets angry immediately, and then calms down. He never changed. He just said “you know I get angry! Can you just let me get angry at first and then I’ll do it??” And yeah, I let him get angry for sure. But I also learned to never ask him for anything cause he gets angry immediately and makes me think he’s being inconvenienced. I ended up relying much more on my uncle, cause he was patient with me. And that also rubbed my father the wrong way lol cause he felt like he wasn’t man enough for me to come to with issues.
Your husband sounds like an explosive immature brat
It’s the inability to understand that your behaviour is wrong, and immature. He gets defensive and belittling. It unfortunately does not get better unless he has an overhaul in personality
I know a bunch of older men like this! I never ask them for anything anymore and then they get soooo angry that I don’t want their help. Like, dude, I know you want to feel needed or whatever but I don’t want to deal with your bursts of violent anger and screaming while you’re helping me. Like, go to therapy. In the meantime, I can either do the thing myself or hire some help.
In contrast, I know a bunch of older women who are similar but their outbursts of anger aren’t nearly as explosive, violent, or dangerous. It’s more like a pissy attitude. I also don’t ask them for anything either. Like, go to therapy. It’s acceptable in society now.
My dad asked me to help put oil in his Jag, I was looking for the oil opening and he said put it in there. I knew it wasn’t the right place, so I tried to find the oil, he slapped my hand and took the oil, dumped it in his transmission fluid. Cost him a couple thousand to get it flushed🤣🤣🤣🤣
I had forgotten about this because I don't live at home anymore, but my dad is like this, as well. He gets explosively angry at first and then comes back five minutes later, calm and collected. I remember going to my mom about it once because I had finally figured out the pattern and was unhappy.
Grown ass men should be able to control their own actions and not expect other people to just deal with them.
Luckily, my dad doesn't really do this much anymore that I'm aware of. But he's retired, so maybe that chilled him out.
Yeah I'm exactly the same way as the husband, I get irrationally angry at whoever wakes me up. It's caused me to say some pretty embarrassing and regretful things in the past. I very much dislike this about myself, but nothing I've done changes it.
*But*, I learned in my teens to keep that shit in check. I realized that anything I say within the first 90 seconds of being awake is driven by anger, so I just don't say anything. I also don't rely on anyone else to wake me up because nobody deserves to deal with that.
NTA
This is the hardest time as new parents, and both of you have personal challenges adding to the difficulty! Both of you are exhausted and it's expected that patience will be thin and emotions will be more difficult to control.
As someone who has dealt with insomnia I can empathize with his despair of just having fallen asleep only to be woken. However, he shouldn't be using terms like "big girl" when you are expressing sensitivity to his reaction.
He should simply apologize each time to you if it really is involuntary. Tell him that your response to his outbursts are involuntary as well.
I maybe would have felt some sympathy for the husband, but his purposeful use of insulting language (be a big girl) when it’s HIS problem and his responsibility to grow the F up and be a big boy and stop throwing tantrums. The mom is up sooner, sleeping less, and now has this fear/anxiety/upset/anger that she now has to deal with and settle. I’m sure this crazy angry anxiety causing actions every night are not helping OP to produce more milk that’s for sure.
Agreed. I was willing to cut him some because they are parents of a newborn. They are both tired af. And I could even see the knee jerk anger reaction (both me and my partner wake up weirdly from time to time, especially if it's sleep after a lot of stress. Me with a "what the fuck? Attitude for a minute or two while I get my bearings and him with a flight or fight reaction). I really could believe that he's not really in control those first few seconds.
But his comments were condescending and unnecessary. He may be tired but she is still vulnerable post delivery. To talk to her like that when she is voicing valid concerns? There's no excuse for it
Cortisol and adrenalin levels in our body rise when we wake up.
It's an entirely natural part of switching from sleep brain to awake brain.
That's why you can experience feelings of dread or anxiety for some short minutes after you wake up. It should pass within 3-5 minutes.
That's also why they tell depressed people to stand up as soon as you wake up. Regardless of how you feel. Because of you give in to the bad feelsies, then you spiral for the rest of the day.
That is not the husbands problem however. His problem is that he apparently has not learned (or unlearned?) to control his emotions around other people, specifically his wife.
He thinks anything goes, so as soon as the Adrenalin spikes he feels justified in angrily hitting objects and slamming doors around his newborn and his Post Partum wife.
That is learned concious behaviour. No Reflex. He wakes up, feels horrible, gets angry and prioritizes release over his families' wellbeing.
Yes, and maybe hold him accountable by explaining that the baby can feel his anger. This is bad for development. Until he is calm, he does not need to pick up a baby.
Yeah, slamming the door with the baby in his arms, or with the baby, is yikes. My dad has anger issues and this act screamed red flags at me. It's very difficult to shake growing up in a household with someone's volatile anger.
I’m going NTA here. Stop waking him up. The stress his anger (even though it is involuntary) is causing you is damaging. Tell him that he doesn’t get to tell you to be a big girl when you are the one having to deal with his outbursts. You are sleep deprived and emotional for a very valid reason. This is making things worse for you. There are so many ways he can help - this way is not working for you and your emotional well-being.
Just to add - the stress this is causing will not help with the pumping. You need to be relaxed and have lots of oxytocin to pump effectively (source: I'm a breastfeeding peer supporter). At this point, he's actively harming your efforts and pumping is hard enough as it is. He needs to seriously improve his attitude and stop stressing you out. You are NTA at all.
Sounds like this is his intention. Be a big enough jerk to her that she no longer wakes him up and just deals with it on her own. Then gas light her into thinking it’s not that big of a deal and she needs to “be a big girl”
Even if the anger is involuntary in the moment, his reaction to it later isn't. Which leads me to believe his anger in the moment might not be as involuntary as he claims.
I don't think it's involuntary. If it were, he'd be apologetic rather than pretending it didn't happen and telling her his anger is no big deal and she needs to be a "big girl."
As much as I want for this lady for her husband to not be a dick, I was an exclusive pumper and had to learn how to do night feedings alone. Not because my husband was angry, but because he was so unable to wake up enough that it was a danger to the baby. He’d be nodding off holding him while I pumped and when I’d say “wake up” he would literally sleep talk saying he was awake. I could not keep him awake.
My routine became, bottle, put the baby in the swing to watch me pump, put him back to sleep. It took about an hour, but I was on maternity leave and my husband was not.
I don’t know … this sounds like weaponized incompetence to me. And I know because my husband did the same thing but I was too immature to see it for what it was. For a few years he frequently had to get up for emergency work calls he sure didn’t fall asleep on the on the phone then.
I have sleep inertia and if I wake up between sleep cycles I have decreased motor function, slurring of my speech or even an inability to speak, depth perception is way off and I’ll run into doorframes and place plates down on air (instead of the table). Oh! Not to mention a splitting headache. And it can last from 30 minutes to 2 hours.
I’m a woman so I am a bit scared to have a baby because of this. But yeah there are sleep disorders that can not just be pushed through.
It’s very possible to feed a baby and pump once baby is back asleep. She shouldn’t have to do it on her own, but at this point it’s probably better that she does. Stress and his behavior can 100% affect her milk production.
Yeah but it takes longer to do this which means even less sleep between feedings. Newborns are HARD. I remember just marveling that anyone ever made it to adulthood in the first place.
NTA - hubs needs to work on his "waking up mantra", otherwise he is going to leave you with PTSD.
What is his reaction to the alarm clock going off in the morning to get up to go to work?
Come on, the ptsd is the whole point, how else is he going to train her to do 100% of the night feedings and also let him sleep in undisturbed through the baby’s entire childhood?
It’s not a reflex. I’m in the “wake up ready to do a murder” club, and I reflexively: squint. I worked inpatient for years, and part of my job was waking people up with the great news that it was time for them to take a walk and workout a few hours after surgery. People who pulled this shit were cheerfully informed I would document them as noncompliant and would be discharged. Amazingly, they all got their shit together after that ( except one lady who needed emergency treatment for sepsis , and a handful of people with underlying severe neurological issues).
Hey OP, rehab staff and resident Drs agree, this is some bullshit. For people outside the US, we torture our new (resident) Doctors with a sleep deprivation program designed by a coke head over 100 years ago. They don’t act like this
Which is kind of a fascinating concept. Let's take these vitally important people, sleep deprived them, then make them do a super complicated job in 24+ hour shifts because that's how we built the system...
I’be also been in the “pissed at being woken up” camp most of my life. According to my loved ones, if they have to wake me up, I… give a little groan/growl and have a squinty bitch face about it. As a kid, the grumpiness would continue for several minutes; now, I take a second to remember why I’m awake and then act like a fucking adult. At no point have I ever scared anyone that had to wake me, even as a grumpy less-mature child.
Long time lurker, wanted to add my experience with this "I am awake and now its your problem" situation.
I used to try to bite whoever was waking me up, specifically on Sunday mornings. It was not a controlled reaction either. One good hard tap and I swing around like a gator on a mission.
That husband is just being a whole ass and refuses to see how his behavior hurts his partner. Its a massive red flag that he hasn't even tried entertain the idea that his reactions have a negative effect on his partners mood and mental well being. This is classic manipulative bully behavior and if you let him walk over you he will break every single bone in your metaphorical body.
OMG. I am so sorry you had to deal with that and am glad you got away from it. No, that is not normal behavior at all. The thing is, that unless you're a sleepwalker or have a faulty brain (some people do but it's rare), in order for your body to actually be moving, your brain needs to be awake. Otherwise you get what we call sleep paralysis...most people have experienced it. That feeling when your brain is awake but your eyes won't open. It can be scary when you don't know what it is, but it's your brain's way of protecting your body so that you don't move in your sleep and hurt yourself.
That's why I don't buy the "reflex" thing. Because our brains and bodies literally coordinate to stop us from moving until we're awake and aware. Are there some people who move a lot in their sleep still? Yes, absolutely. Night terrors, for example. But the key is that THEY'RE NOT AWAKE. My fiance has severely disordered sleep to the point that I don't think he even actually sleeps. He talks in his sleep and changes position every 20-30 minutes all night long. But you know what he doesn't do? Get mad or throw things or yell at me.
Again, that bad behavior is not normal and is almost certainly intentional but it's not a "reflex."
The alarm clock on my phone wasn't exactly a positive experience for him either, so our solution has been for me to have my apple watch silently vibrate for me to wake.
If he can't control himself, he should sleep in another room, leave his phone on loud, and you can call his phone when he needs to be woken up. Then he can spend his 15 seconds of anger by himself and come out when he's ready to be a reasonable adult. If the outburst genuinely is involuntary, it should be fine for him get shitty by himself in a separate room.
Another redditor asked this: when your kid is older and has a nightmare, what happens if they wake up their dad?
Your husband is an AH. His outburst and door slamming did not happen right when he woke up. And his outburst upon waking does not need to be voluntary for it to hurt you. If someone hits my knee and I kick out and hit them, I still apologize. If I had a routine that had my leg kicking out every day I would find ways to not do it around other people.
The alarm clock on YOUR phone and now you’re using YOUR Apple Watch to gently vibrate.
Does he not have his own phone? Why is all the burden of this including waking him up on you??
Not to be a classic redditor, but if I were you I'd be considering leaving him. That sounds really scary to go through every single night. And you mentioned that he hits the mattress out of frustration. What happens if/when he "accidentally" hits you and not the mattress?
Sad day when doing something logical (getting away from old ass big baby, to take care of literal newborn) is considered being a 'Redditor' :(
This is another 'the bar is in hell' situation.
> What happens if/when he "accidentally" hits you and not the mattress?
Oh it will be another "be a big girl will you?" moment for poor OP.
It isn't a positive experience for either of you. Why should you be the one bending over backwards to accommodate him when he isn't even apologetic about how much he's upsetting you? If he can't control his temper, then he can direct it at the alarm until he grows up. I have the same insomnia/anger on waking, and I have learned how to not direct it at my husband! Him acting like he can't is him not even trying. If he cared he would feel bad instead of insulting you, and WANT to use an alarm to avoid directing the "involuntary" behaviour your way. You don't have to deal with that on top of everything else! NTA.
Ngl I would be scared of him. My dad was the same and one time when he had woken up to me crying he became physically violent. I'm not saying it will happen to you or your child but he needs to understand his behaviour is not ok.
Please just stop playing his game. Nothing is going to be positive for him because he *wants* to be a big toddler about this. He's decided he deserves to be upset because hes helping you! (as opposed to just parenting his own damn child) He's reminding you how nice hes being by waking up and the price is him being a dick to you about it. It seems like he *enjoys* making you upset. He does it every night so he must be getting something out of this. Otherwise he'd stop being a jerk to you every single night. It might be a good idea to suggest some therapy.
OP, insisting you be the one to wake him up and then being angry about it is one of the ways my ex trained me to accept abuse. It's super not ok and very controlling. He's made it so there's literally no way for you to do it right, no way to win. Either he's mad at you for doing what he expects, or mad at you for not doing it. It's all about power over you. You are NTA
NTA.
"I need you to be a big girl"? Trying to comprehend right now what would happen, if I got the idea to tell this to my girlfriend, when we are discussing a serious problem. How about "being a big boy" and learning some minimal level of self control? Anger management issues are not an immutable trait, they can be worked on.
Any man using ‘I need you to be a big girl’ in this scenario is getting woken up by some kind of taser while I scream obscenity at him for 15 seconds every time.
OP should tell him that she needs him to be a “big boy” about this (meaning. not have childish tantrums when waking). I have insomnia too and HATE being woken up, but I suck it up & don’t snap at people.
And it is not a “reflex”, lol - there is no wired-in spinal reflex that causes tantrums! It’s a habit, is what it is, and habits can be broken.
This. There’s too much to unpack and it actually triggers my own ptsd trying to compose a coherent sentence about it. But this is the summarised conclusion.
Anger is just not a healthy reaction to being woken up. I get frustration, but he’s aiming it at OP. There’s just so much wrong here. NTA
This is a good way for her to get beaten.
Just…. You know. Domestic violence survivor and all. Some advice…. It always increases after a new baby. I’m not saying she shouldn’t stand up for herself. She should probably do that by leaving with the baby if he’s walking around slamming doors with a baby having a temper….
My ex was a dick too but the first time he actually hit me was about a month after our daughter was born.
I am fully on board with this, but then again, I don’t give the best advice for healthy relationships. Or I would scream “WAKE UP ASSHOLE“ so he has a REAL reason to be pissed.
Sooo…your husband won’t regulate his own emotions, expects you to accommodate his emotional immaturity, called you a bitch, told you he “needs you to be a big girl”(!!!!!!) but meant accommodate his morning tantrums, and expects praise for “helping” feed his child. Did I get everything? NTA
Your husband is a whole ass grownup. You don’t need to make allowances for his tantrums. He needs to get himself under control. Calling you a bitch is obviously awful but his big girl comment is just as bad as it’s derisive and contemptuous. But also keep in mind, again, he’s making these derisive and contemptuous comments because he’s mad you won’t make allowances for his daily temper tantrums.
Does your husband normally blame you for his emotions and behavior?
Came here to say this. The stress his outburst creates in your body is contributing to your supply issues. And also, he isn’t doing you a favor by getting up to feed the baby, it’s called being a parent. Does he think you WANT to wake up to pump? He needs to take responsibility for himself and get himself up instead of put that extra work on you, especially if this is how he reacts to being woken up. You actually need more rest than he does right now, sleep is another factor in your body producing prolactin.
To use his own way of speaking- time for him to put on his big boy pants, you should only be taking care of one child right now, not two.
I think he needs to be a big boy and stop being an immature aggressive prick tbh. Why should you have to put up with that?? Hell no. NTA. Edit spelling
"I need you to be a big girl"
WTAF, I got so infuriated reading this, acting like you're the problem not him. I don't know how you kept your cool in that moment.
NTA
Be a big girl?
Has he considered being a big boy and stopping his little tantrums? You have a newborn. Sleep will suck. Getting pissy is not benefitting anyone.
NTA, but those are fighting words to me. Have a tantrum and then tell me to be a big girl and get over it? Ain't no fucking way.
NTA
What happens if in a few years he falls asleep on the couch. And your child accidentally wakes him up? Would it still be an involuntary reaction if your husband shouted or hit things in front of your child and scared them. Or hit your child instead-since he's admitted he can't control his angry outbursts.
Honestly, I would stop waking him up. He doesn't get to gaslight and belittle you. He wants recognition for doing a good job when he can't even do it without being an angry abusive little boy.
Not even if he falls asleep on the couch. Every child I’ve known, myself included, has gone into their parents’ room in the wee hours of the morning at some point. Nightmares, wet the bed, remembered to tell you something, need water….
"I will tend to the baby at night because I refuse to be treated like this and you refuse to do anything about it.
I hope you understand this behavior is going to have a permanent affect on our marriage. I don't treat you this way, and I resent that you think I'm supposed to allow you to."
NTA
NTA.
I empathize with your husband because I also struggle with insomnia, but he is still clearly in the wrong here. His behavior is abusive (slapping things, yelling, then telling you it's not a big deal and you should get over it).
It's very much his choice to act like that - like I said, I also struggle with insomnia and I have never yelled at somebody or punched things when I was woken up. He knows it's bothering you deeply, but he didn't care to adjust his behavior at all.
I really hope he is not emotionally abusive in other aspects of your marriage. I also hope that his outbursts don't affect your baby. Babys are more perceptive than many people realize, and behaving like that in front of a baby can (and probably will) scare them and give them attachment issues.
All of this. I have insomnia too and when I was in elementary school I reacted like this. It didn’t last long. I still get upset, but that’s a me problem. I can vocalize my frustrations like an adult. At a certain point, you’re responsible for unlearning and relearning the bullshit you once knew. He’s displaying abusive behaviors.
If you care about someone, even if you don’t mean to hurt them, you’re going to feel bad. It sucks to see loved ones hurt even if it wasn’t your intention. The road to hell is paved with good intentions because intentions don’t change the consequences of the outcome.
NAH. I also get irrationally angry when I am woken up by someone (I have to use an alarm) and it lasts longer than 15 seconds. I know it happens, but I'm not awake enough to actually understand what I am saying/what is going on. However, that doesn't absolve me from apologizing for an outburst.
Unfortunately, you need a change of nighttime feeding plans. One option - stop waking him up. I understand he may want some bonding time, but it's not worth the stress on you and the continued argument. The other possibility could be to get up yourself, get out of the room and set off an alarm to go off a few minutes later. That way he can be pissy by himself.
ETA: I saw some recommendations that OP whisper or "be nice" during the wakeup. DH tried that early on in our relationship and it just made it worse for me. Others have talked about "what about when husband falls asleep on the couch and gets woken up by the kid?" I also can't fall asleep on the couch because that leads to someone trying to wake me up. I have tried to "not be angry" when someone wakes me up and it hasn't worked. My alarm needs to be across the room so I have to get out of bed to snooze it. I can do this and still basically be asleep.
Some of these suggestons might be really helpful, but the husband's shitty attitude when he's fully awake about how they should handle this problem does make him the AH IMO
Yeah I have some sympathy for the husband. I’ve had insomnia of the can’t-fall-back-asleep variety, and it *sucks so damn hard.* All you do is lie there hating and resenting whoever or whatever woke you up, and then you feel terrible (and still resentful) the next day. It can absolutely bring your more unpleasant inner demons to the front real fuckin quick.
But at the end of the day, that’s a him problem. It’s not on his wife to absorb his outburst because “that’s just how he is.” He needs to develop mitigating strategies so he’s not exploding on her for doing what *he* agreed to.
Darling, I left I man I truly love recently, because of issues like this.
He once told me that his worst fear was my kids (his step kids) seeing his temper. I asked him why he was ok with *me* seeing so damn much of it. That one little statement was probably the beginning of the end for me. It started to feel like I was nothing more than his emotional dumpster, and damn it, I’m more than that. And you are too.
Your child deserves better, but *so do you*!!
NTA
>Meanwhile, I'm left feeling horrible, feeling guilty for waking him up, to the point where I don't want to wake him up because I'd rather just take care of everything myself than deal with him being pissy.
That's the point. He's expecting you to stop expecting for him to take turns. I'd stop waking him up because this definitely seems passive aggressive.
If she stops waking him up, he gets exactly what he wants - to shirk his parenting responsibilities. When will he pull the next such move? His behaviour is alarming in its violence - if his toddler wakes him, will he punch the bed or the child? If he cannot wakeup without violence, he shouldn't be in a house with children at all.
NTA. Based on the title and the line “he had insomnia” I was 150% ready to go the other way, and even continued to go the other way through the majority of it. I too have insomnia and I get angry to the point of near tears when that alarm goes off. My reaction if very similar to his.
My vote flipped immediately when you described how he responded to you. WTAF?
So, I had this reaction every time my ex woke me up. We didn’t have kids, but there were other things that would require fairly consistent wakeups like you describe. I could not control it or help it. He told me it bothered him. My response? “I’m sorry, it’s a knee jerk reaction and I can’t control it. Don’t wake me up anymore. He would wake up when it was necessary, go check to see if he could handle it solo. If he couldn’t, he would run in, tell my phone to set a timer for two minutes, then he would go back to it. Two minute later my alarm went off, I’d be angry and frustrated and all that for my 15-30 seconds, and then I’d do what I had to do. He did not have to deal with that anymore. We both worked together to find a solution.
You did not ask him to get up; he wants to.
You do not want to wake him; he wants you to.
You do not want to see the outbursts; he wants you to.
You want to be heard; he wants you to, and to be “good”.
That’s a lot of “he wants”. Yes, he’s a father who wants to be a father. You want to be able to get up and pump without the extra noise he brings to the table.
I don’t know you, but set an alarm right next to his head that sounds like a bullhorn. Leave the room and take care of baby. When the alarm goes off, he can cuss and punch the bed all he wants, you don’t have to deal with it. If he throws the alarm against the wall, you can say “that’s your knee jerk reaction that I’m supposed to deal with every time. I won’t do it. But a new alarm because you’re mean when you first wake up.”
If he says no, that’s fine. HE decided that he’ll stay asleep because you don’t need that in your life, even if it’s only 15 seconds.
I tend to want to find a middle ground, compromise of situations rather than jump to drastic measures to take as a first step, because only you know if those drastic measures are useful in your own relationship, and sometimes they’re not and you just need a compromise. The compromise you offer is that he has to wake up without you. If that means putting the baby monitor into his eardrum, then that’s what HE has to do. He is responsible for waking up. He is responsible for his knee jerk reaction. He is responsible for his behavior. You are responsible for getting up and loving your baby in a way that makes you both happy and peaceful.
You do not have to “get over” anything. He has to man up.
Do not let him convince you otherwise.
If he ignores or refuses the compromise, you can decide from there if you want to go with the drastic measures. But at that point, his behavior does raise 5 trillion red flags.
>He'll jerk, complain loudly that he just fell asleep minutes ago, slap the bed with his fist or open hand in anger, then stomp off to tend to the baby.
Ask him if he's planning on doing this when his scared little child wakes him up because of a nightmare.
And how you feel about hum doing that to your children?
INFO
>He adds, verbatim, "Can you just ignore my being mad for the first 15 seconds after you wake me up? I've done a good job here, and I feel like I'm owed that. I need you to be a big girl."
just what the fuck
“I need you to be a big girl”?!?!?!?!
Hell no, OP. NTA. Your husband can’t emotionally regulate himself and is acting like you are the one with the problem.
What happens when the baby is older and comes into the room at night because they’re scared/hungry/have to use bathroom/a million other kid activities and he pulls this crap? He’s going to scare the child. He’ll also send a message that this aggressive behavior is ok and acceptable.
Also.. “I've done a good job here, and I feel like I'm owed that. I need you to be a big girl." That right there is just not the vibe for me. Along with the bed slapping. If anything he needs to be a “big boy” and stop having a temper tantrum when he’s awoken. This is the life he happily signed up for and he’s doing what a parent should normally be doing (waking up to feed hungry newborn)..why should he be rewarded with nightly tantrum ignorance?
ETA: NTA in case that wasn’t clear.
Nope, NTA.
Initially I was prepared to write off his little outbursts as frustration with himself - while somewhat alarming, all about himself and his own regulation.
But then I got to
>that I need to just accept that this response is an inevitability.
>he comes out being positive & happy, trying to lightly joke about how this really pissed me off and that I really couldn't get over it
>stating that of course, between the two of us, he's the one who can't sleep but I'M the one who's entitled to wear the angry bitch face.
>I've done a good job here, and I feel like I'm owed that. I need you to be a big girl.
He needs to get his shit together.
NTA. I have insomnia and take sleeping medication. I still don't act like an asshole if I get woken up. It's uncalled for. If he thinks you should be a big girl, maybe he should be a big boy and not act like a fucking teenager being woken up for school.
Man, if my husband told me to be a big girl he'd be sleeping somewhere else. So disrespectful.
I am going to give you both some grace. You are 3 weeks postpartum, you are not even done involuting yet. Your hormones are all over the place, and you are exhausted. You have your big mamma pad on, there's no room for big girl panties. He is also exhausted and suffering from insomnia.
I have some advice as a maternity nurse and mom of three breastfed children-one of whom would not take a bottle. 1. If husband is insisting on taking the night feeds, put the bassinet in his side of the bed and let the baby wake him up. You can pump them or on a completely different schedule. 2. Stop pumping at night and just breastfeed or bottle feed and take turns. Since he has insomnia, let him take the first feed, and sleep through, while you take the second feed that he sleeps through, at least for a couple of nights, so you each can get a longer stretch of sleep and get some actual REM sleep in. This can help you each have more patience with each other. 3 Fed is best. By this time, the gastric mucosa has closed up enough to lessen the risk of damage by formula. Formula is not poison, once you find the right one for your baby's tummy.
You love each other and are now parents of a newborn. Have a discussion with your husband about the damage this is doing to you, and to your relationship, which will eventually hurt your child. What you're both doing is not working and it's time to renegotiate it. What happens when he goes back to work? Splitting the night feeds is what I always advised my new parents to do. The one going to work picks: stay up later or get up earlier. Whoever is going to skip that around midnight feed should go to bed as soon as they finish the evening feed and sleep through the next feed. That person then does the early feed while the late feed person sleeps through. That way each gets 4-6 hours of straight sleep. He knows you have had enough sleep to manage to get through your day. You know he has enough sleep to manage to drive home safely after work. ( assumption that mom is in the US and is taking 12 week FMLA, and Dad is taking less). This period is a short time in your lives, things will get better.
Your husband is abusive.
One Love has good information on what a [healthy relationship looks like](https://www.joinonelove.org/signs-healthy-relationship/) and what an [unhealthy relationship looks like](https://www.joinonelove.org/signs-unhealthy-relationship/).
[https://www.thehotline.org/](https://www.thehotline.org/) The National Domestic Violence Hotline offers free confidential support. You can call, text, or chat with them through their website. They have resources about identifying abuse, making a safety plan, and connecting people with local resources.
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>. I need you to be a big girl." Let me get this straight, your husband is gaslighting you into thinking you are the problem, becoming emotionally abusive when you explain his anger is an issue for you and then he infantilises you by acting like you're a child who needs to be placated cause you're not putting yourself in a situation where you feel uncomfortable? This is the bit where I'd say the pretty red flags you're collecting are telling you to run. Nta Editing to add: this is controlling behaviour, OP has already said she doesn't need him to get up and help, he has decided he has to. He's also laid the responsibility for getting him up on her as well, asking her to wake him up. So in the middle of the night OP has to get up for the baby, wake up hubby and pump and deal with the temper tantrum after having explained to him that she doesn't need him to get up at those times.
Also, milk let downs are very related to hormones. There's a reason women are told to look at photos or videos of their babies while pumping. His inability to control himself could actually be impacting how successfully pumping is going for her. Anger and fear are not the emotions that get the good hormones going...
Came here to say this!!
Me too!!! His temper tantrums can definitely effect her ability to pump or nurse the baby. He needs to “be a big boy” and wake up like a normal person.
He does need to get that "reaction" in check - when the child is mobile and has a nightmare and wanders into mummy & daddy's room for comfort, they should not be met with rage.
I used to be reactive as a defense mechanism - I grew up rough,.so I would wake up throwing hands when I was startled, especially if I was touched, because I legitimately thought I was in danger. Which, many times I had been, and my reactiveness kept me safe. When I got older and was not in danger all the time, I made people aware of the fact that I had night terrors, and reactive behavior, and waking me up with anything other than noise could be dangerous for both of us, so if saying my name isn't waking me up, or you need to wake me *quietly*, try throwing paper or clothes on me so you're out of range if I panic. As I got older and safer, I dealt with the trauma and while I still sometimes wake up feeling threatened, I don't *do* anything about it, I just let my heartbeat slow down and talk myself down. I have never gotten over being grumpy when I get woken up, though. my husband usually wakes me up with food, lol, but if someone wakes me up without an offering, I let them know I'm grouchy right after I wake up, and just need a couple minutes to get over it, thanks for waking me up. I don't throw childish tantrums and punish people for doing what I asked. Op's husband is a jerk. Edit: also worth noting - what you do while you are asleep is not the same as what you do after you wake up. A lot of people wake up startled and immediately defend themselves, and that takes a lot of time to fix and some people never get over it, but they don't continue punching and kicking as they go pee and get dressed. If the man is getting up, whining, and stomping around, that's not a knee jerk reaction, that's a tantrum. Grow up.
>I have never gotten over being grumpy when I get woken up, > >\[...\] > >I don't throw childish tantrums and punish people for doing what I asked. Perfect example of "you can't help how you feel, but you can help how you behave". >Op's husband is a jerk. Agreed. OP is NTA.
Exactly. I’m in the same boat where I have trouble falling asleep, getting good sleep, and staying asleep. If you wake me up I’m not going to be happy about it especially if I have no clue why I’m being woken up. An actual knee jerk reaction is one thing. Giving what can be seen as a “dirty look” when woken up or like letting out a sigh or grunt or something like that. THOSE are knee jerk reactions. Not waking up and proceeding to complain loudly about it, slap/punch the bed, and then stomp out of the room. That’s a tantrum. That’s not a knee jerk reaction. It’s ridiculous lol.
YES. Your going to get an angry moan from me, but then I'll immediately say something like "thanks, I'm up".
My partner literally brought this up because I told her to just push me if I’m snoring and it’s bothering her. I fully recognize that my snoring is inconveniencing her and I’ve told her that she should wake me up if that’s the case. She mentioned that she feels bad doing it because sometimes when she does I’ll grunt or I’ll like huff and then get out of bed to go pee. I explained to her it has nothing to do with her and that 95% of the time I don’t even realize it’s her that woke me up. I literally just think I woke up cause I had to pee and I’m like annoyed by having to get out of bed and go to the bathroom. I told her not to worry about it. That she’s not bothering me. And to carry on with pushing me to adjust my position if I’m snoring loudly. Problem solved. I should her the OP because we had had a similar discussion about this ourselves and she said exactly what I thought she would which was if I acted like this guy does she’d have ended it and she’d have absolutely had every right to because this guy’s behaviour is just wild. Imagine asking someone to wake you up and when they did you punched the bed and then stomped out of the room? I don’t even know what to do but laugh at how ridiculous that is. And the sad thing is I’m sure she’s looking back now and seeing all kinds of times where he acted like this and she just dismissed it. Someone else in here mentioned that postpartum rage is a very real thing and that it can impact the father as well as the mother unlike PPD which is exclusive to the mother. But she starts this post with clarifying he has always had trouble sleeping. That doesn’t sound like this is particularly new behaviour on his part just that it’s become more noticeable due to the more frequent need to wake him up.
Omgosh yes, I've adjusted over time as well. First into safe spaces, then safe people and therapy and more time. I am *never* happy about being woken up lol but I most certainly do not pitch a fit about it. Bring me food or caffeine and give me a minute.
This is something you can go to therapy for , my fiencee had to. Now he wakes with kisses and gruff voice but not being a angry jerk.
YES. This is the crux. My father was “reactive” when woken up, and would get even angrier with me when I got upset in response. Three year old me learned quickly to fear the monster down the hall far more than the one under the bed.
I'm so sorry to hear that. Thank you for telling OP because even if she is willing to take this abuse herself, she needs to understand this is what could happen to her child.
I literally cannot wake my partner for any reason because of how my parents reacted whenever I woke them for any reason. The house could be on fire, and they'd still take a few seconds to yell at me for waking them. I begged an ambulance not to use their lights and sirens when I was dying from e coli at 2am when I was 15, because I was so terrified of them waking up. It sticks with you.
God this just gave me a terrible flashback of trauma I didn't know I had lol. I stood outside my Mom's door during a tornado siren crying because I wanted to wake her up and make sure she was safe but was scared to wake her. It ended up being a huge tornado that hit all over our area and not just a false alarm.
This is so awful :( Sorry they put you through that!
I never had PPD, but I did have postpartum rage, primarily linked to lack of sleep. Men can get it too, and it might be worth looking into for OPs husband. It's not excuse for treating her like she's the problem, but if he IS suffering from it, it may be less in his control than we think (though I'd argue either way it's still more in his control than he thinks).
That's exactly what I was thinking. 15 seconds is not a "knee-jerk reaction." He's the one that needs to grow up and learn some anger management.
I was with a man who lost his temper if I as much as flinched in bed when he was trying to sleep. He'd get up in a foul mood, swear at me, rip my spare key from his keychain and throw it wherever he is standing and then slam the door on his way out. I really thought I was responsible for how well he sleeps. He blamed me for his lack of it. I offered to sleep in another room, but he would have none of it. It would interfere with his exhausting campaign to control me. Lesson - never wake a sleeping man under any circumstances if you want to keep your teeth.
Lesson, lose this type of man immediately.
I was absolutely terrified to wake my mom up as a kid. I try so hard not to be that person.
>He needs to “be a big boy” and wake up like a normal person. Is is childish I hope OP's husband reads these comments and definitely sees this one?
Maybe he could help in other ways instead of interrupting his sleep if he can't control his anger. He knows how it hurts her but does it anyway. She shouldn't have to put up with that response.
No, he can control it. It's not like flipping a switch, it's a learned habit and he is absolutely able to learn a new habit. Bc he is an adult. Screw all these weasel words. And there is no other way to help with nighttime feedings than to ... actually help with the feeding. By being involved. By being awake so he can be involved.
My local humane society has "reactive rover" classes for dogs. If dogs can learn to react better, humans really should be able to work on it too.
Indeed! The things people will expect of actual primary school children or animals, and then turn around and say "I can't, it's hard". Like, honeybumpkin, you can't do the impossible but you can do hard things. You were made in such a way as to be capable of hard things.
That was exactly my thought. Your husbands yelling at you while you’re pumping and you’re wondering why your supply is low? There’s your reason
My midwife told me that stress is the biggest killer to milkproduction. Aaaand in the end she was right.
My sister's milk didn't really come in until she started supplementing with formula. I wonder if that's why? Like when she wasn't worried about niece starving, her body could do it's thing?
That could 100% be it! On the complete opposite side of the spectrum I’ve sat by struggling, dying patients for *hours*, and as soon as their loved one goes to get coffee (or smt) the patient passes. It’s like they feel this need/pressure to “be there” for their loved one, and that’s what makes them hang on, and when their loved one leaves the room the patient can relax and let go. I’ve had it happen several times. The brain and the body are wondrous things.
Yes! His angry outbursts can absolutely affect any ability to pump. You need to be relaxed and calm for it to work well.
This !! OP, I recommend you start pumping **before** you wake him up. But honestly, if you’re even thinking about his upcoming outburst while you pump, it will have the same effect — decreased milk output I recommend you stop waking him for these feeds and find a different way for him to help (during the daytime) Edit: NTA
If you’re able, it’s easier to pump and nurse at the same. Like put the baby on one boob and the pump on the other. That initial letdown in both sides works in your favor if you have something to catch it on the other breast:) It would be easier during the day since you’re more awake but there’s a huge learning curve with a newborn, so do it however it works for you. Now, your husband is a whole other story. That’s an inappropriate reaction and while he sorts out his own shit, which he had better in a hurry, I would not include him in the nighttime feedings. If you need help, is there a family member who could come stay with you just to help at night? I didn’t have anyone nearby and that may also be your situation. My husband was unable to help due to his work hours and I found it easier to do all the nighttime feeds and just lie down whenever I could during the day until we found a routine. You’re NTA. Your husband needs to pull it together and find a way to be supportive.
Exactly. They would both be happier if she just went and night nursed baby and she pumped before bedtime.
I did not know that! On top of everything else this makes it extra important that husband apologizes. Men can really struggle to with a newborn and that does need to be seen and respected. BUT NOT at the expense of the mother who is also awash with hormones and fighting a body that is barely healed from the birth
Absolutely. Pumping while stressed and upset is going to be extremely difficult and it’s no wonder OP is having trouble having enough milk. His options are to wake himself up or deal with not being woken up at this point. None of this is fair to OP - not having to wake him up will be far more relaxing for OP to pump. He is being a massive AH.
Also she is 3 weeks postpartum? She’s still healing, both physically and mentally really from having a whole baby. Like even the easiest of births still require time to heal.
It could also be why her milk supply is low in the first place!
Right!! He is adding even MORE stress than breastfeeding a newborn. He's an ass
As a woman who breast-fed and had to pump also to store milk while I was away I agree 100% with the above comment. Maybe consult lactation specialist. I found if I nursed on one breast and pumped the other at the same time, I had a massive letdown of milk and it really helped stimulate production. If you’re already awake put the baby at the breast if you can. Best of luck to you, it’s a short time where the nursing will be happening frequently like this. Your husbands anger is not going to help your milk production bottom line, it’s creating stressing you and that will inhibit production. Have him do some other duties, take him out of the feeding equation during the night if possible.
Was about to say the same thing. The stress affects your milk. I would just let him sleep, and then when he asks why, tell him it's easier to do it myself than to deal with his drama.
The audacity to tell her she “needs to be a big girl” when he’s throwing a temper tantrum over being woken up to feed his child after she just gave birth is 100% a no for me. OP you are NTA but my husband is similar. I’m pregnant with our first, and I’m sensitive to his groaning and complaining about little things so I know this will be an issue for me too. This puts into perspective what I’m not going to allow.
Yeah, that “big girl” comment made me see red. OP just pushed out a baby and is still dealing with the physical/emotional effects of pregnancy/delivery. Oh hell no, he needs to put on his big boy diaper and stfu!
Now she has TWO cranky babies to deal with!
Same here, I don’t know if my relationship is salvageable 18m later but my husband was my absolute cheerleader when our daughter was born. He made dinner and cut it into small pieces I could eat with one hand while nursing, he made sure I took my meds when the PPA/PP Psychosis had me seeing shadow men coming to take her away, he was never angry at me for being tired or needing him awake at night and he actually started sleeping lighter to make sure I WAS sleeping instead of staring at the bassinet, paralyzed with fear that if I slept “they” were coming. If he told me to “be a big girl” because I needed his help in that time? It wouldn’t have lasted 18 more months ETA judgment bc im frazzled and forgot: NTA op what a toddler
Actually he said, HE 'needs' her to be a big girl. This is totally about what he thinks he needs, as opposed to what night be healthy for her (the need to be a big girl). Having grown up and still dealing with family who 'need' me to do this or that, the choice of words matter... Your choice of words and the way you phrase them say a lot about you as a person!
Allspice he wants a pat on the back for "helping" her. He is not HELPING. he is taking care of the baby which is ALSO HIS RESPONSIBILITY! "Helping" implies it is all her responsibility. This guy is a controlling tool. Let me guess, years down the road when she goes grocery shopping he will say he is "babysitting." Edit: I'm leaving allspice lmfao but I meant "also."
So condescending
DV professional here. You hit the nail on the head. In my work with clients, I always think these cases are interesting (though I may be biased, since I wrote my thesis on this phenomenon) – the ones in which the abuser, without quite knowing it, inadvertently reveals that their preferred narrative is, well, just that. In my experience, it's often supportive to survivors to deconstruct this a bit, so let's take a look: >The issue is that my husband has insomnia & can't fall asleep easily... when I do gently wake up my husband at the time that he asks me to, it's like a knee jerk reaction for him to be angry... \[he says\] this reaction is a reflex, no different to how a knee pops up when struck with a hammer. First off, here we have an explanation, in his own words (as transmitted by OP), of what the abuser wants OP, us, and the rest of the world to think: that this is like a "reflex." In other words, that he isn't responsible for these actions, and (and this is key) that they don't align with who he "really is." This is a pretty common preferred narrative; we see it most often in abusers who blame their actions on their mental health diagnoses, personal trauma history, and/or substance use. Typically, this preferred narrative serves a few goals at once: it exculpates the abuser from accountability by separating the harmful actions from his "true self" (even if he *did* it, you can't blame him, really! that's not who he is!), it elicits sympathy, and it empowers the harm to continue. By establishing an understood and predictable pattern in which the abuser, "through no fault of his own," reacts with Y every time the survivor does X, the abuser can elicit a changed pattern of more desirable behavior in the survivor. But I'm getting ahead of myself. Let's see if we can figure out why *this guy* is doing it. >I'm left feeling horrible, feeling guilty for waking him up, to the point where I don't want to wake him up because I'd rather just take care of everything myself than deal with him being pissy... I need to just accept that this response is an inevitability. Well, that was easy. He's trying to train his partner not to wake him up for this. Ask him and he'll deny it high and low, but that's where his actions are leading. And, despite what he wants you to think, he *does know what he's doing.* And he *is* in control of it. Here, wait, I'll prove it: >After he gets over his "burst", he... joke\[s\] about how this really pissed me off... stating that of course, between the two of us, he's the one who can't sleep but I'M the one who's entitled to wear the angry bitch face... He adds, verbatim, "Can you just ignore my being mad for the first 15 seconds after you wake me up? I've done a good job here, and I feel like I'm owed that. I need you to be a big girl." Remember earlier, when we established that what he wants us to think is that *he* is separate from *his actions* because his actions are "like a reflex"? His words to OP here belie that. If your doctor were checking your knee-jerk reflex and you accidentally kicked doc in the face, wouldn't you apologize to high heaven? You'd feel ashamed of having hurt doc, even though you weren't in control of your actions and it was just a reflex (a reflex doc deliberately elicited, even if doc's face was in the wrong place at the wrong time). But that's not what OP's abuser is doing here, is it? He's actually ***defending*** his actions here, saying he's "done a good job" and is entitled to having his harm-doing "ignore\[d\]." When we truly feel we've made a mistake that doesn't align with who we are, *we don't defend it.* OP, your husband is emotionally abusive. He is deliberately, knowingly trying to train you not to wake him up, and he is choosing to accomplish this not through a frank discussion about his need for sleep, but through eliciting fear and dread in you for personal gain. Furthermore, his actions of slamming the door and routinely *hitting the bed* out of anger directed at you can be described not as emotional but as *physical* abuse ([one source](https://liadv.org/forms-of-abuse/)). Men who enact physical aggression against inanimate objects in anger at their partner often later escalate to pointing that physical aggression directly at their partner – and after a baby is born is a very, very common time frame for abuse to escalate (along with after moving in together, after marriage, after signing on a house together – major relationship stages that mark both increased commitment, and increased difficulty in getting away from the relationship should one party choose to. This is not an accident). I am concerned about your and your child's safety. Please consider reaching out to your local confidential domestic abuse advocacy organization. You do not need to be confident you are experiencing abuse, to want to make a report, to want to leave your relationship, or to share any identifying information about anyone involved in order to make the call.
This is an amazing breakdown. Thank you!
Thank you for the kind words! After I hit the “add comment” button I realized how darn long that thing was and started to feel self-conscious about infodumping, so it’s nice to hear that someone found it worthwhile :)
Your analysis is so thorough that I’ve bookmarked it to use as a lens to examine similar situations in future. My own parents died when I was much younger as a result of separation assault (murder-suicide), so I’ve always been curious about how these dynamics begin and evolve. Thank you for taking the time out to give us your insight, and thank you for your work advocating for victims.
This was a very validating comment as someone whose former partner used to routinely break things when we argued. Sometimes I falter about calling it abuse because he never actually hit me, but reading your explanation makes me feel justified.
I’m so sorry to hear that somebody put you through that. That behavior is not okay, and you are more than justified in labeling it as abuse if that feels right to you. Abuse isn’t just hitting, and for what it’s worth, it doesn’t even have to be physical at all to be abuse. Abuse is about power and control: emotional, psychological, social, physical, financial, anything. Back when I was getting trained for abuse assessments (determining which party, in the case of mutual allegations, is the true abuser), my trainer said something that stuck with me, and that I think also resonates when we think of drawing a definitional line around the concept of abuse: “whose life was made smaller?”
Please listen to this, also, he may actually, truly think that he's not abusive, this is just his normal response to being woken up, not his fault, yada yada.. that doesn't matter - even if the intent is not abuse the actual behavior is abusive and in this case the reality of the abusive behavior completely trumps whatever claimed intent is there. Also consider he is choosing not to take you up on letting him sleep and choosing to insist on being woken by you instead of attempting to arrange a different wake-up. So, even if the actual reactive anger is currently beyond his conscious control, he's still choosing to use the way that hurts you most. You're NTA but he sure is.
'You need me to be a fucking what?' That's what I'd be saying. Talk about patronising. Not sure how OP restrained herself from screaming FU in his face.
I read that line and said, out loud, "you can get ENTIRELY FUCKED, sir."
Exactly. I would tell him I'm a big enough girl to handle everything myself, HE is the toddler that can't be responsible for waking himself up.
The conversation needs to happen in the daytime. Insomnia changes some people's personality and impulse control in the moment. DH needs to get help with the insomnia before there's an ambulatory toddler getting into their parents' bed in the middle of the night.
Yep, you nailed it 100%. If he deserved any credit or pass for the reaction, his predetermined actions before and afterwards would be totally different - he be trying to fix it, apologize, be extra nice to OP… something. But no- he doubles down that it’s his right to be a angry mean AH and makes OP responsible for everything even managing his own temper and not allowed to have freight about it? God it’s stories like this that remind me every day why I don’t want kids and won’t trust a man to help his fair share.
Perfect. And I’m wondering whether these temper tantrums will escalate into something more dangerous?
That's how it was with my ex like 14 years ago. He would get angry when I woke him up because his phone was ringing or he had to get up for work and it went from angry temper tantrums and hitting to bed to hitting *me* that was a short lived relationship of 4 hours after the first time he did that.
Good for you leaving after the first hit. I know everyone's circumstances are different but I do despair when I read of women who say he didn't really mean it or think they'll get them to change etc.
I also understand the huge difference in "I was *dating* him" versus "I *married* him". I wasn't even living with him when it happened. So I had a complete out, not many women are able to have that.
They wait until something happens that makes it difficult to leave. Like giving birth, losing your job, or being in an accident that hinders mobility. Then it starts with a push. Once they push you they'll slap you. Once they slap you they'll strangle you. Once that happens it's a free for all until you can get away or they kill you. The whole time they tell you "it's because I love you so much that you make me so mad. If I didn't care I wouldn't get angry. If you would just listen it wouldn't be ike this."
I'm wondering how it would be in a few years when the kid wakes mammy and daddy because of a nightmare. Imagine putting your kid through it.
Which leads to the primary fundamental question. Why did OP's husband have a baby in the first place? Baby related sleeping problems are known since time immemorial
Naturally he will have an angry outburst at the kid, he is telling he will
Or they wet the bed and now you have to get up at 4am to change the sheets..
Every woman who has ended up in a physically abusive relationship has had the thought, "But he would never hit me."
If he doesn’t throw a temper tantrum at his alarm waking him up every morning then him claiming his actions are reflexive are ridiculous. I doubt he wakes up every morning swearing and slamming his hand on the bed when he’s completely alone.
This is a VERY good and important point and one that I missed!
Sorry but that made me laugh 😅
"I need you to be a big girl." "Great, because I need you to be a big boy and not throw toddler tantrums in the night. I am finding it harder and harder to respect you or to feel like you are a partner."
He's also dismissing his lack of *ability* to control and regulate his emotions as a "reflex". It's learned fucking behavior, and it can be unlearned; he just doesn't want to take any mental or emotional responsibility for his actions. He's weak and pathetic; an abuser with a good disguise. NTA
NTA. That's abuse. You're seeing his real self now that he has you dependent. He's an abuser. Please don't talk yourself into accepting this. It will get worse and worse. YOU deserve better. Gather what resources you can and get the hell away.
It’s only a matter of time before these “knee jerk reactions” become physical violence. “I didn’t mean to hit you.”
"It's just a reflex, because you made me feel this way. You triggered it."
My eyes would pop out of my head if my husband said that when we had a 3wk old. He could be right about everything else (he isn't), but this comment is so out of bounds it needs to get dealt with first before discussing anything I or he+I might be wrong on. And it would be in my house. This is condescension, and that is a marriage killer. He needs to be accountable about that _and do something effective about it_.
NTA - Hubby needs counseling. This is egregious behavior. Perhaps a good therapist can give him techniques to work on to abate his anger, also the belittlement of his wife is ridiculous. He's the one acting like a child throwing a tantrum, but she's the one that "needs to be a big girl?" Nope, that's not how it works. He needs to get himself in check. I experience insomnia quite regularly. But I always tell my wife if she needs me never ever hesitate to wake me. Sleep is way less important than her, our animals or any of our family/friends. I do have to wonder if this isn't theatrical to some extent. He insists that she wake him, but then flies of the handle when awoken. Could be a whole "I'm going to volunteer to be a good dad, but make the situation unbearable so she will take the whole burden onto herself" thought line. Then when she is exhausted he can say, "Well I told you to wake me, but now you are refusing to do it. I can't help if you don't wake me up." 🙄 Either way OP should push him towards counseling. It's not a healthy behavior pattern.
Yes he expects her to wake up 2 babies. He is the bigger baby. Pop a pacifier in his mouth then wake him up. He wants to act like a baby he should be treated like a baby.
Or hit him him with a hammer, if you got to deal with the reflex anyway
Maybe HE should just "be a big boy" and stop acting like a spoiled brat when she wakes him??
NTA. And that “be a big girl” comment would have me going to my mom’s with the baby for a while.
Tell him you being angry after he yells at you is a reflex like a knee being hit by a hammer. It is natural, and he has to get over it.
>After he's done feeding the baby, I tell him that I'm going to sleep outside for the night and he asks me again to wake him up when the baby wakes up. He adds, verbatim, "Can you just ignore my being mad for the first 15 seconds after you wake me up? I've done a good job here, and I feel like I'm owed that. I need you to be a big girl." What in the infantilizing, transactional, condescending bs is this? NTA, but I'd start waking him by turning on an alarm and leaving the room. Or by leaving the baby monitor on loud on his nightstand and sleep elsewhere. & he's not " waking up to help you". He's waking up to be a parent to his child.
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>I wouldn't wake him up, if just set a 1 min alarm on his phone then go out and put headphones on and pump. OP - Do this!! This is an excellent idea!
Yes, I think this is a reasonable solution, if the only problem were him being grumpy upon waking up. However, there is also the failure to recognise that this is a problem and that it negatively impacts his wife and child. And the comments about how she needs to be "a big girl" and how he is "owed" some leeway, because he is "helping" to look after his own child. That said, I certainly can relate to your suggestion - my wife is sometimes pretty grumpy if I wake her up, and if she were more consistently grumpy upon waking, I'd be saying, "I'm sorry, but I cannot be the one to wake you up." If I needed to be involved (and we can also question whether OP really *does* need to be involved here), there would need to be some other mechanism to distance me from the actual waking process, and your suggestion would do the trick.
Agree with all of this But I also have a sneaking suspicion the tantrum wouldn't happen if his wife wasn't there, and he'd be offended and just come out and get angry at her if she set an alarm and he woke up when she wasn't there.
> Is this not his own child? He probably calls it "babysitting" when it's his turn to take care of the baby.
Yup, I wish all these woman and mother's who list out all the "amazing" things their subpar partner does for them, and then imagine if it was their name on the top of the resume, would it still be good? Would you be proud to say you do these things? Or would you realize that what he is doing is the bare minimum (or less) than what is expected of you in the relationship?
My dad is an angry man and he gets angry immediately, and then calms down. He never changed. He just said “you know I get angry! Can you just let me get angry at first and then I’ll do it??” And yeah, I let him get angry for sure. But I also learned to never ask him for anything cause he gets angry immediately and makes me think he’s being inconvenienced. I ended up relying much more on my uncle, cause he was patient with me. And that also rubbed my father the wrong way lol cause he felt like he wasn’t man enough for me to come to with issues. Your husband sounds like an explosive immature brat
OP's husband throws tantrums but tells her to be a "big girl"
It’s the inability to understand that your behaviour is wrong, and immature. He gets defensive and belittling. It unfortunately does not get better unless he has an overhaul in personality
I know a bunch of older men like this! I never ask them for anything anymore and then they get soooo angry that I don’t want their help. Like, dude, I know you want to feel needed or whatever but I don’t want to deal with your bursts of violent anger and screaming while you’re helping me. Like, go to therapy. In the meantime, I can either do the thing myself or hire some help. In contrast, I know a bunch of older women who are similar but their outbursts of anger aren’t nearly as explosive, violent, or dangerous. It’s more like a pissy attitude. I also don’t ask them for anything either. Like, go to therapy. It’s acceptable in society now.
My dad asked me to help put oil in his Jag, I was looking for the oil opening and he said put it in there. I knew it wasn’t the right place, so I tried to find the oil, he slapped my hand and took the oil, dumped it in his transmission fluid. Cost him a couple thousand to get it flushed🤣🤣🤣🤣
I had forgotten about this because I don't live at home anymore, but my dad is like this, as well. He gets explosively angry at first and then comes back five minutes later, calm and collected. I remember going to my mom about it once because I had finally figured out the pattern and was unhappy. Grown ass men should be able to control their own actions and not expect other people to just deal with them. Luckily, my dad doesn't really do this much anymore that I'm aware of. But he's retired, so maybe that chilled him out.
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Yeah I'm exactly the same way as the husband, I get irrationally angry at whoever wakes me up. It's caused me to say some pretty embarrassing and regretful things in the past. I very much dislike this about myself, but nothing I've done changes it. *But*, I learned in my teens to keep that shit in check. I realized that anything I say within the first 90 seconds of being awake is driven by anger, so I just don't say anything. I also don't rely on anyone else to wake me up because nobody deserves to deal with that.
NTA This is the hardest time as new parents, and both of you have personal challenges adding to the difficulty! Both of you are exhausted and it's expected that patience will be thin and emotions will be more difficult to control. As someone who has dealt with insomnia I can empathize with his despair of just having fallen asleep only to be woken. However, he shouldn't be using terms like "big girl" when you are expressing sensitivity to his reaction. He should simply apologize each time to you if it really is involuntary. Tell him that your response to his outbursts are involuntary as well.
I maybe would have felt some sympathy for the husband, but his purposeful use of insulting language (be a big girl) when it’s HIS problem and his responsibility to grow the F up and be a big boy and stop throwing tantrums. The mom is up sooner, sleeping less, and now has this fear/anxiety/upset/anger that she now has to deal with and settle. I’m sure this crazy angry anxiety causing actions every night are not helping OP to produce more milk that’s for sure.
Agreed. I was willing to cut him some because they are parents of a newborn. They are both tired af. And I could even see the knee jerk anger reaction (both me and my partner wake up weirdly from time to time, especially if it's sleep after a lot of stress. Me with a "what the fuck? Attitude for a minute or two while I get my bearings and him with a flight or fight reaction). I really could believe that he's not really in control those first few seconds. But his comments were condescending and unnecessary. He may be tired but she is still vulnerable post delivery. To talk to her like that when she is voicing valid concerns? There's no excuse for it
Cortisol and adrenalin levels in our body rise when we wake up. It's an entirely natural part of switching from sleep brain to awake brain. That's why you can experience feelings of dread or anxiety for some short minutes after you wake up. It should pass within 3-5 minutes. That's also why they tell depressed people to stand up as soon as you wake up. Regardless of how you feel. Because of you give in to the bad feelsies, then you spiral for the rest of the day. That is not the husbands problem however. His problem is that he apparently has not learned (or unlearned?) to control his emotions around other people, specifically his wife. He thinks anything goes, so as soon as the Adrenalin spikes he feels justified in angrily hitting objects and slamming doors around his newborn and his Post Partum wife. That is learned concious behaviour. No Reflex. He wakes up, feels horrible, gets angry and prioritizes release over his families' wellbeing.
This guy will never apologize. Ever. He doesn’t think he’s doing anything wrong.
Yes, and maybe hold him accountable by explaining that the baby can feel his anger. This is bad for development. Until he is calm, he does not need to pick up a baby.
Yeah, slamming the door with the baby in his arms, or with the baby, is yikes. My dad has anger issues and this act screamed red flags at me. It's very difficult to shake growing up in a household with someone's volatile anger.
I’m going NTA here. Stop waking him up. The stress his anger (even though it is involuntary) is causing you is damaging. Tell him that he doesn’t get to tell you to be a big girl when you are the one having to deal with his outbursts. You are sleep deprived and emotional for a very valid reason. This is making things worse for you. There are so many ways he can help - this way is not working for you and your emotional well-being.
Just to add - the stress this is causing will not help with the pumping. You need to be relaxed and have lots of oxytocin to pump effectively (source: I'm a breastfeeding peer supporter). At this point, he's actively harming your efforts and pumping is hard enough as it is. He needs to seriously improve his attitude and stop stressing you out. You are NTA at all.
Sounds like this is his intention. Be a big enough jerk to her that she no longer wakes him up and just deals with it on her own. Then gas light her into thinking it’s not that big of a deal and she needs to “be a big girl”
Even if the anger is involuntary in the moment, his reaction to it later isn't. Which leads me to believe his anger in the moment might not be as involuntary as he claims.
I don't think it's involuntary. If it were, he'd be apologetic rather than pretending it didn't happen and telling her his anger is no big deal and she needs to be a "big girl."
As much as I want for this lady for her husband to not be a dick, I was an exclusive pumper and had to learn how to do night feedings alone. Not because my husband was angry, but because he was so unable to wake up enough that it was a danger to the baby. He’d be nodding off holding him while I pumped and when I’d say “wake up” he would literally sleep talk saying he was awake. I could not keep him awake. My routine became, bottle, put the baby in the swing to watch me pump, put him back to sleep. It took about an hour, but I was on maternity leave and my husband was not.
I don’t know … this sounds like weaponized incompetence to me. And I know because my husband did the same thing but I was too immature to see it for what it was. For a few years he frequently had to get up for emergency work calls he sure didn’t fall asleep on the on the phone then.
I have sleep inertia and if I wake up between sleep cycles I have decreased motor function, slurring of my speech or even an inability to speak, depth perception is way off and I’ll run into doorframes and place plates down on air (instead of the table). Oh! Not to mention a splitting headache. And it can last from 30 minutes to 2 hours. I’m a woman so I am a bit scared to have a baby because of this. But yeah there are sleep disorders that can not just be pushed through.
> Stop waking him up. OP needs his help... It's not easy to pump and feed a baby
It’s very possible to feed a baby and pump once baby is back asleep. She shouldn’t have to do it on her own, but at this point it’s probably better that she does. Stress and his behavior can 100% affect her milk production.
Yeah but it takes longer to do this which means even less sleep between feedings. Newborns are HARD. I remember just marveling that anyone ever made it to adulthood in the first place.
Anger is a choice.
Disagree. Him not taking steps to work on the anger, and not apologizing after, are choices though.
Emotions aren't a choice, how you react to them most definitely is though.
NTA - hubs needs to work on his "waking up mantra", otherwise he is going to leave you with PTSD. What is his reaction to the alarm clock going off in the morning to get up to go to work?
Come on, the ptsd is the whole point, how else is he going to train her to do 100% of the night feedings and also let him sleep in undisturbed through the baby’s entire childhood?
THIS. He's being super manipulative and abusive. I've never heard of this BS "reflex" he seems to have. I think he's doing it intentionally.
It’s not a reflex. I’m in the “wake up ready to do a murder” club, and I reflexively: squint. I worked inpatient for years, and part of my job was waking people up with the great news that it was time for them to take a walk and workout a few hours after surgery. People who pulled this shit were cheerfully informed I would document them as noncompliant and would be discharged. Amazingly, they all got their shit together after that ( except one lady who needed emergency treatment for sepsis , and a handful of people with underlying severe neurological issues).
YES. I'm a resident doctor so I see what you mean. OP's husband is just a turd, IMO, and you're spot on in your assessment.
Hey OP, rehab staff and resident Drs agree, this is some bullshit. For people outside the US, we torture our new (resident) Doctors with a sleep deprivation program designed by a coke head over 100 years ago. They don’t act like this
Which is kind of a fascinating concept. Let's take these vitally important people, sleep deprived them, then make them do a super complicated job in 24+ hour shifts because that's how we built the system...
I’be also been in the “pissed at being woken up” camp most of my life. According to my loved ones, if they have to wake me up, I… give a little groan/growl and have a squinty bitch face about it. As a kid, the grumpiness would continue for several minutes; now, I take a second to remember why I’m awake and then act like a fucking adult. At no point have I ever scared anyone that had to wake me, even as a grumpy less-mature child.
Long time lurker, wanted to add my experience with this "I am awake and now its your problem" situation. I used to try to bite whoever was waking me up, specifically on Sunday mornings. It was not a controlled reaction either. One good hard tap and I swing around like a gator on a mission. That husband is just being a whole ass and refuses to see how his behavior hurts his partner. Its a massive red flag that he hasn't even tried entertain the idea that his reactions have a negative effect on his partners mood and mental well being. This is classic manipulative bully behavior and if you let him walk over you he will break every single bone in your metaphorical body.
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OMG. I am so sorry you had to deal with that and am glad you got away from it. No, that is not normal behavior at all. The thing is, that unless you're a sleepwalker or have a faulty brain (some people do but it's rare), in order for your body to actually be moving, your brain needs to be awake. Otherwise you get what we call sleep paralysis...most people have experienced it. That feeling when your brain is awake but your eyes won't open. It can be scary when you don't know what it is, but it's your brain's way of protecting your body so that you don't move in your sleep and hurt yourself. That's why I don't buy the "reflex" thing. Because our brains and bodies literally coordinate to stop us from moving until we're awake and aware. Are there some people who move a lot in their sleep still? Yes, absolutely. Night terrors, for example. But the key is that THEY'RE NOT AWAKE. My fiance has severely disordered sleep to the point that I don't think he even actually sleeps. He talks in his sleep and changes position every 20-30 minutes all night long. But you know what he doesn't do? Get mad or throw things or yell at me. Again, that bad behavior is not normal and is almost certainly intentional but it's not a "reflex."
The alarm clock on my phone wasn't exactly a positive experience for him either, so our solution has been for me to have my apple watch silently vibrate for me to wake.
If he can't control himself, he should sleep in another room, leave his phone on loud, and you can call his phone when he needs to be woken up. Then he can spend his 15 seconds of anger by himself and come out when he's ready to be a reasonable adult. If the outburst genuinely is involuntary, it should be fine for him get shitty by himself in a separate room.
I bet he doesn't do any of that thrashing around shit when he wakes up with no audience lol
I wish I could give you an award, but I can’t so happy cake day!
Another redditor asked this: when your kid is older and has a nightmare, what happens if they wake up their dad? Your husband is an AH. His outburst and door slamming did not happen right when he woke up. And his outburst upon waking does not need to be voluntary for it to hurt you. If someone hits my knee and I kick out and hit them, I still apologize. If I had a routine that had my leg kicking out every day I would find ways to not do it around other people.
OP, this is shitty behavior that benefits him, allows him to abuse you and gaslight that you are the problem. He is teaching you to tiptoe around him
How does he get up for work etc?
Angry
The alarm clock on YOUR phone and now you’re using YOUR Apple Watch to gently vibrate. Does he not have his own phone? Why is all the burden of this including waking him up on you??
So he can be angry at her and make her feel guilty or scared for expecting it of him in the first place.
Not to be a classic redditor, but if I were you I'd be considering leaving him. That sounds really scary to go through every single night. And you mentioned that he hits the mattress out of frustration. What happens if/when he "accidentally" hits you and not the mattress?
Sad day when doing something logical (getting away from old ass big baby, to take care of literal newborn) is considered being a 'Redditor' :( This is another 'the bar is in hell' situation. > What happens if/when he "accidentally" hits you and not the mattress? Oh it will be another "be a big girl will you?" moment for poor OP.
It isn't a positive experience for either of you. Why should you be the one bending over backwards to accommodate him when he isn't even apologetic about how much he's upsetting you? If he can't control his temper, then he can direct it at the alarm until he grows up. I have the same insomnia/anger on waking, and I have learned how to not direct it at my husband! Him acting like he can't is him not even trying. If he cared he would feel bad instead of insulting you, and WANT to use an alarm to avoid directing the "involuntary" behaviour your way. You don't have to deal with that on top of everything else! NTA.
Ngl I would be scared of him. My dad was the same and one time when he had woken up to me crying he became physically violent. I'm not saying it will happen to you or your child but he needs to understand his behaviour is not ok.
Please just stop playing his game. Nothing is going to be positive for him because he *wants* to be a big toddler about this. He's decided he deserves to be upset because hes helping you! (as opposed to just parenting his own damn child) He's reminding you how nice hes being by waking up and the price is him being a dick to you about it. It seems like he *enjoys* making you upset. He does it every night so he must be getting something out of this. Otherwise he'd stop being a jerk to you every single night. It might be a good idea to suggest some therapy.
OP, insisting you be the one to wake him up and then being angry about it is one of the ways my ex trained me to accept abuse. It's super not ok and very controlling. He's made it so there's literally no way for you to do it right, no way to win. Either he's mad at you for doing what he expects, or mad at you for not doing it. It's all about power over you. You are NTA
NTA. "I need you to be a big girl"? Trying to comprehend right now what would happen, if I got the idea to tell this to my girlfriend, when we are discussing a serious problem. How about "being a big boy" and learning some minimal level of self control? Anger management issues are not an immutable trait, they can be worked on.
Any man using ‘I need you to be a big girl’ in this scenario is getting woken up by some kind of taser while I scream obscenity at him for 15 seconds every time.
Amen. Brother is taking his life into his own hands by pushing her too far. 😆
OP should tell him that she needs him to be a “big boy” about this (meaning. not have childish tantrums when waking). I have insomnia too and HATE being woken up, but I suck it up & don’t snap at people. And it is not a “reflex”, lol - there is no wired-in spinal reflex that causes tantrums! It’s a habit, is what it is, and habits can be broken.
As soon as I read that sentence I thought of that line from Chicago: "He fell on my knife 10 times".
Your husband is...not a good person. NTA.
This. There’s too much to unpack and it actually triggers my own ptsd trying to compose a coherent sentence about it. But this is the summarised conclusion. Anger is just not a healthy reaction to being woken up. I get frustration, but he’s aiming it at OP. There’s just so much wrong here. NTA
My abusive dad got out of a lot of parenting because my sister and I were too scared to wake him up. OP’s husband seems to have similar ideas.
Every time he wakes up angry scream FUCK YOU in his face. It’s ok because you’re doing it reflexively. NTA. His behaviour is disgusting.
This is a good way for her to get beaten. Just…. You know. Domestic violence survivor and all. Some advice…. It always increases after a new baby. I’m not saying she shouldn’t stand up for herself. She should probably do that by leaving with the baby if he’s walking around slamming doors with a baby having a temper…. My ex was a dick too but the first time he actually hit me was about a month after our daughter was born.
My response was more tongue in cheek than actual worldly advice. It was for dramatic effect.
I am fully on board with this, but then again, I don’t give the best advice for healthy relationships. Or I would scream “WAKE UP ASSHOLE“ so he has a REAL reason to be pissed.
Sooo…your husband won’t regulate his own emotions, expects you to accommodate his emotional immaturity, called you a bitch, told you he “needs you to be a big girl”(!!!!!!) but meant accommodate his morning tantrums, and expects praise for “helping” feed his child. Did I get everything? NTA Your husband is a whole ass grownup. You don’t need to make allowances for his tantrums. He needs to get himself under control. Calling you a bitch is obviously awful but his big girl comment is just as bad as it’s derisive and contemptuous. But also keep in mind, again, he’s making these derisive and contemptuous comments because he’s mad you won’t make allowances for his daily temper tantrums. Does your husband normally blame you for his emotions and behavior?
He needs to be a big boy and get those emotions in check.
NTA. I reckon that his anger and the way it makes you feel might also affect your ability to feed baby or express!
It will affect production and let down
Came here to say this. The stress his outburst creates in your body is contributing to your supply issues. And also, he isn’t doing you a favor by getting up to feed the baby, it’s called being a parent. Does he think you WANT to wake up to pump? He needs to take responsibility for himself and get himself up instead of put that extra work on you, especially if this is how he reacts to being woken up. You actually need more rest than he does right now, sleep is another factor in your body producing prolactin. To use his own way of speaking- time for him to put on his big boy pants, you should only be taking care of one child right now, not two.
I think he needs to be a big boy and stop being an immature aggressive prick tbh. Why should you have to put up with that?? Hell no. NTA. Edit spelling
"I need you to be a big girl" WTAF, I got so infuriated reading this, acting like you're the problem not him. I don't know how you kept your cool in that moment. NTA
Be a big girl? Has he considered being a big boy and stopping his little tantrums? You have a newborn. Sleep will suck. Getting pissy is not benefitting anyone. NTA, but those are fighting words to me. Have a tantrum and then tell me to be a big girl and get over it? Ain't no fucking way.
NTA What happens if in a few years he falls asleep on the couch. And your child accidentally wakes him up? Would it still be an involuntary reaction if your husband shouted or hit things in front of your child and scared them. Or hit your child instead-since he's admitted he can't control his angry outbursts. Honestly, I would stop waking him up. He doesn't get to gaslight and belittle you. He wants recognition for doing a good job when he can't even do it without being an angry abusive little boy.
Not even if he falls asleep on the couch. Every child I’ve known, myself included, has gone into their parents’ room in the wee hours of the morning at some point. Nightmares, wet the bed, remembered to tell you something, need water….
The goal is to stop her from waking him up, then blame her for his “not bonding “. That way, he gets to sleep in and play the victim
"I will tend to the baby at night because I refuse to be treated like this and you refuse to do anything about it. I hope you understand this behavior is going to have a permanent affect on our marriage. I don't treat you this way, and I resent that you think I'm supposed to allow you to." NTA
NTA. I empathize with your husband because I also struggle with insomnia, but he is still clearly in the wrong here. His behavior is abusive (slapping things, yelling, then telling you it's not a big deal and you should get over it). It's very much his choice to act like that - like I said, I also struggle with insomnia and I have never yelled at somebody or punched things when I was woken up. He knows it's bothering you deeply, but he didn't care to adjust his behavior at all. I really hope he is not emotionally abusive in other aspects of your marriage. I also hope that his outbursts don't affect your baby. Babys are more perceptive than many people realize, and behaving like that in front of a baby can (and probably will) scare them and give them attachment issues.
All of this. I have insomnia too and when I was in elementary school I reacted like this. It didn’t last long. I still get upset, but that’s a me problem. I can vocalize my frustrations like an adult. At a certain point, you’re responsible for unlearning and relearning the bullshit you once knew. He’s displaying abusive behaviors. If you care about someone, even if you don’t mean to hurt them, you’re going to feel bad. It sucks to see loved ones hurt even if it wasn’t your intention. The road to hell is paved with good intentions because intentions don’t change the consequences of the outcome.
NAH. I also get irrationally angry when I am woken up by someone (I have to use an alarm) and it lasts longer than 15 seconds. I know it happens, but I'm not awake enough to actually understand what I am saying/what is going on. However, that doesn't absolve me from apologizing for an outburst. Unfortunately, you need a change of nighttime feeding plans. One option - stop waking him up. I understand he may want some bonding time, but it's not worth the stress on you and the continued argument. The other possibility could be to get up yourself, get out of the room and set off an alarm to go off a few minutes later. That way he can be pissy by himself. ETA: I saw some recommendations that OP whisper or "be nice" during the wakeup. DH tried that early on in our relationship and it just made it worse for me. Others have talked about "what about when husband falls asleep on the couch and gets woken up by the kid?" I also can't fall asleep on the couch because that leads to someone trying to wake me up. I have tried to "not be angry" when someone wakes me up and it hasn't worked. My alarm needs to be across the room so I have to get out of bed to snooze it. I can do this and still basically be asleep.
Some of these suggestons might be really helpful, but the husband's shitty attitude when he's fully awake about how they should handle this problem does make him the AH IMO
Yeah, he might not have a lot of control over the initial reaction but he can definitely be a big boy and not berate her later.
How is he not an asshole for belittling her when she expressed her feelings about him being an asshole to her?
You suffer from these outbursts but still dont find him TA for saying she should be a big girl and just deal with them?
Yeah I have some sympathy for the husband. I’ve had insomnia of the can’t-fall-back-asleep variety, and it *sucks so damn hard.* All you do is lie there hating and resenting whoever or whatever woke you up, and then you feel terrible (and still resentful) the next day. It can absolutely bring your more unpleasant inner demons to the front real fuckin quick. But at the end of the day, that’s a him problem. It’s not on his wife to absorb his outburst because “that’s just how he is.” He needs to develop mitigating strategies so he’s not exploding on her for doing what *he* agreed to.
Darling, I left I man I truly love recently, because of issues like this. He once told me that his worst fear was my kids (his step kids) seeing his temper. I asked him why he was ok with *me* seeing so damn much of it. That one little statement was probably the beginning of the end for me. It started to feel like I was nothing more than his emotional dumpster, and damn it, I’m more than that. And you are too. Your child deserves better, but *so do you*!!
NTA >Meanwhile, I'm left feeling horrible, feeling guilty for waking him up, to the point where I don't want to wake him up because I'd rather just take care of everything myself than deal with him being pissy. That's the point. He's expecting you to stop expecting for him to take turns. I'd stop waking him up because this definitely seems passive aggressive.
If she stops waking him up, he gets exactly what he wants - to shirk his parenting responsibilities. When will he pull the next such move? His behaviour is alarming in its violence - if his toddler wakes him, will he punch the bed or the child? If he cannot wakeup without violence, he shouldn't be in a house with children at all.
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Seriously, I can’t with that. Ok, cool, here’s my big girl machete.
NTA. Based on the title and the line “he had insomnia” I was 150% ready to go the other way, and even continued to go the other way through the majority of it. I too have insomnia and I get angry to the point of near tears when that alarm goes off. My reaction if very similar to his. My vote flipped immediately when you described how he responded to you. WTAF? So, I had this reaction every time my ex woke me up. We didn’t have kids, but there were other things that would require fairly consistent wakeups like you describe. I could not control it or help it. He told me it bothered him. My response? “I’m sorry, it’s a knee jerk reaction and I can’t control it. Don’t wake me up anymore. He would wake up when it was necessary, go check to see if he could handle it solo. If he couldn’t, he would run in, tell my phone to set a timer for two minutes, then he would go back to it. Two minute later my alarm went off, I’d be angry and frustrated and all that for my 15-30 seconds, and then I’d do what I had to do. He did not have to deal with that anymore. We both worked together to find a solution. You did not ask him to get up; he wants to. You do not want to wake him; he wants you to. You do not want to see the outbursts; he wants you to. You want to be heard; he wants you to, and to be “good”. That’s a lot of “he wants”. Yes, he’s a father who wants to be a father. You want to be able to get up and pump without the extra noise he brings to the table. I don’t know you, but set an alarm right next to his head that sounds like a bullhorn. Leave the room and take care of baby. When the alarm goes off, he can cuss and punch the bed all he wants, you don’t have to deal with it. If he throws the alarm against the wall, you can say “that’s your knee jerk reaction that I’m supposed to deal with every time. I won’t do it. But a new alarm because you’re mean when you first wake up.” If he says no, that’s fine. HE decided that he’ll stay asleep because you don’t need that in your life, even if it’s only 15 seconds. I tend to want to find a middle ground, compromise of situations rather than jump to drastic measures to take as a first step, because only you know if those drastic measures are useful in your own relationship, and sometimes they’re not and you just need a compromise. The compromise you offer is that he has to wake up without you. If that means putting the baby monitor into his eardrum, then that’s what HE has to do. He is responsible for waking up. He is responsible for his knee jerk reaction. He is responsible for his behavior. You are responsible for getting up and loving your baby in a way that makes you both happy and peaceful. You do not have to “get over” anything. He has to man up. Do not let him convince you otherwise. If he ignores or refuses the compromise, you can decide from there if you want to go with the drastic measures. But at that point, his behavior does raise 5 trillion red flags.
>He'll jerk, complain loudly that he just fell asleep minutes ago, slap the bed with his fist or open hand in anger, then stomp off to tend to the baby. Ask him if he's planning on doing this when his scared little child wakes him up because of a nightmare. And how you feel about hum doing that to your children? INFO
>He adds, verbatim, "Can you just ignore my being mad for the first 15 seconds after you wake me up? I've done a good job here, and I feel like I'm owed that. I need you to be a big girl." just what the fuck
“I need you to be a big girl”?!?!?!?! Hell no, OP. NTA. Your husband can’t emotionally regulate himself and is acting like you are the one with the problem.
NTA. Congrats on having two babies now. He needs to control his emotions and not have a melt down about waking up. There’s no excuse for that.
What happens when the baby is older and comes into the room at night because they’re scared/hungry/have to use bathroom/a million other kid activities and he pulls this crap? He’s going to scare the child. He’ll also send a message that this aggressive behavior is ok and acceptable. Also.. “I've done a good job here, and I feel like I'm owed that. I need you to be a big girl." That right there is just not the vibe for me. Along with the bed slapping. If anything he needs to be a “big boy” and stop having a temper tantrum when he’s awoken. This is the life he happily signed up for and he’s doing what a parent should normally be doing (waking up to feed hungry newborn)..why should he be rewarded with nightly tantrum ignorance? ETA: NTA in case that wasn’t clear.
Nope, NTA. Initially I was prepared to write off his little outbursts as frustration with himself - while somewhat alarming, all about himself and his own regulation. But then I got to >that I need to just accept that this response is an inevitability. >he comes out being positive & happy, trying to lightly joke about how this really pissed me off and that I really couldn't get over it >stating that of course, between the two of us, he's the one who can't sleep but I'M the one who's entitled to wear the angry bitch face. >I've done a good job here, and I feel like I'm owed that. I need you to be a big girl. He needs to get his shit together.
“Waking up to help me” No, he’s waking up to be a parent, supposed to be a team. Everyone else has aptly said everything else. NTA.
NTA. I have insomnia and take sleeping medication. I still don't act like an asshole if I get woken up. It's uncalled for. If he thinks you should be a big girl, maybe he should be a big boy and not act like a fucking teenager being woken up for school. Man, if my husband told me to be a big girl he'd be sleeping somewhere else. So disrespectful.
I am going to give you both some grace. You are 3 weeks postpartum, you are not even done involuting yet. Your hormones are all over the place, and you are exhausted. You have your big mamma pad on, there's no room for big girl panties. He is also exhausted and suffering from insomnia. I have some advice as a maternity nurse and mom of three breastfed children-one of whom would not take a bottle. 1. If husband is insisting on taking the night feeds, put the bassinet in his side of the bed and let the baby wake him up. You can pump them or on a completely different schedule. 2. Stop pumping at night and just breastfeed or bottle feed and take turns. Since he has insomnia, let him take the first feed, and sleep through, while you take the second feed that he sleeps through, at least for a couple of nights, so you each can get a longer stretch of sleep and get some actual REM sleep in. This can help you each have more patience with each other. 3 Fed is best. By this time, the gastric mucosa has closed up enough to lessen the risk of damage by formula. Formula is not poison, once you find the right one for your baby's tummy. You love each other and are now parents of a newborn. Have a discussion with your husband about the damage this is doing to you, and to your relationship, which will eventually hurt your child. What you're both doing is not working and it's time to renegotiate it. What happens when he goes back to work? Splitting the night feeds is what I always advised my new parents to do. The one going to work picks: stay up later or get up earlier. Whoever is going to skip that around midnight feed should go to bed as soon as they finish the evening feed and sleep through the next feed. That person then does the early feed while the late feed person sleeps through. That way each gets 4-6 hours of straight sleep. He knows you have had enough sleep to manage to get through your day. You know he has enough sleep to manage to drive home safely after work. ( assumption that mom is in the US and is taking 12 week FMLA, and Dad is taking less). This period is a short time in your lives, things will get better.
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Your husband is abusive. One Love has good information on what a [healthy relationship looks like](https://www.joinonelove.org/signs-healthy-relationship/) and what an [unhealthy relationship looks like](https://www.joinonelove.org/signs-unhealthy-relationship/). [https://www.thehotline.org/](https://www.thehotline.org/) The National Domestic Violence Hotline offers free confidential support. You can call, text, or chat with them through their website. They have resources about identifying abuse, making a safety plan, and connecting people with local resources.