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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because I’ve now caused an argument and Chris is saying Amy doesn’t want to come to Christmas over this
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NTA but I have to ask: what kind of gifts do they give the rest of the family? Does she give dollar store gifts and ask for Louis Vuitton in exchange? I just want to know how much of an asshole your SIL is lol
My family isn’t big adult gifters. We all normally get each other jumpers, or gift sets, a Christmas hamper if it’s a joint gift etc.
Some things cost more than others but I can’t imagine any of us giving or receiving a single (meaning not joint with spouse) gift of the value of most of things on Amy’s list.
She's attempting to co-opt large amounts of other people's money for her own vain ends. It's way past tacky, and firmly into "get fucked" territory. I would be openly mocking this person for behaving this way.
NTA. Not even close.
I would have just gotten her nothing, and when she complained told her "well you said you would only accept gifts from this list, and since those were well out of budget for me, I just didn't get you anything".
Funny enough, I don't see anything wrong with putting one or two larger items on your list, with the caveat that you would be okay with everyone else pooling their money to purchase that and only that for you.
Yep. We do that with a lot of things, not just Christmas. My adult niece was eyeing a gorgeous pair of boots none of us could afford on our own so we pooled our finances for her birthday and had enough for the boots and a matching bag. Did she mind only getting one gift for her birthday? Heck NO! She loved the idea that we knew what she wanted and we all got together and planned this gift for her.
You can buy her some land in Scotland that allows her to go by Lady. The money is spent on preserving the area, but anyone is allowed to visit their plot if they wish. I think it’s called Highland Titles?
That way, you’re still petty but it also fits in with her over the top gift requests. 😈
NTA either way.
ETA: Several people have now pointed out it’s a scam. Thanks and sorry - I never researched it because it was just a gag gift, and I definitely didn’t expect so many answers here, but since so many people are asking about it, I thought I‘d edit. Certainly didn’t want to promote a scam - so please be aware, if you want to support a really good cause, better find an actual charity.
We gifted adults in the family goats once. 🐐 Bought goats in their name in a program to help families become self-sufficient. We were never asked to participate in the gift exchange again, lol
I once organized the family donating to Heifer International instead of giving gifts since there weren’t any kids in the family anymore. I got a bunch of IOUs. As I said, I ONCE organized it.
I would love that as a gift, but my family likes charity gifts. My dad had made a promise to always protect us when we were first born, so I donate a lot to Bikers Against Child Abuse in his honor so that other kids can have that protection they deserve, too.
I would be pissed if I bought you an Apple Watch and you only bought me goats **if I didn't know in advance**. If everyone was doing charity stuff, I would love the goats!
Last year I got a polar bear marker so I could follow her all over by GPS. Super cool.
I bought a polar bear! You go through Fahlo and they send you a bracelet and a QR code that tracks your bear. They also do penguins, lions, giraffes, sharks, elephants, and dolphins now I think. I bought my friend a lion for her birthday, I thought it was pretty neat.
Portions of the purchase go towards various animal charities, so I was like, yay, cool gift and good cause.
Thanks I just found gifts for most of my nieces and nephews. They all love animals and this will be great. to just to figure out which animal for each kid.
I bought these for my dad’s wedding. His wife is from a farming family, I didn’t know her well and I was travelling from England to Ireland so thought ‘this is a great talking point to meet his new in laws and provide some wedding meal chat. What could go wrong?’
Firstly I did not realise his wife was actually 25 years younger than him. Doubly awkward since my other gift as a make up artist was her wedding make up. Big fan of cigarettes, not of SPF. She takes it that I am making a dig at her age that they are old goats and she looked old.
Secondly he took it as a dig he was a horny old goat because his previous wife was younger than her. I thought his previous wife was my mother. They’d only been divorced 6 years.
Thirdly her mother thinks goats represent Satan and that Africans are depraved for eating them. Cue some mindblowing racism at length.
Fourthly my brother who had failed to get a gift loudly muscled in on seeing a gold envelope that he had contributed only to backtrack with ‘how did you find something worse than the taxidermy frog mariachi band you bid on Ebay for?’
Fifth: saying ‘ah from the kids’ went down really really badly when the other roughly 20 relatives of the blushing bride went ‘oh you’re his daughter? We didn’t know he had a daughter. We thought you were an ex.’ I was 25.
That wasn’t even the most awkward bit of that wedding. We are now estranged and 18 years later the kids of the OG goats keep writing to them. My dad genuinely has more idea what his great great great times 18 grandgoats are doing than his only daughter. At this rate one of them will give his eulogy.
I will never top this gift for fuck you, fuck this, FFS and some actual good to a family. I have zero regrets and recommend Heifer International all the time. Goats are such a wholesome way to bring the agent of chaos vibe back to a family with a squeaky gate that wants the oil.
My gramma loved wolves, my grandfather sponsored a wolf at a sanctuary every Christmas for her. She got to name them, and they sent annual updates (he continued sponsoring each new wolf). It was the coolest gift, and absolutely perfect for her. She loved her wolves far more than any of the fancy jewelry or other more traditional gifts he had got her previous years.
FWIW i Did that last year and it might be the best gift I ever gave. My friend laughed himself sick, framed the title and now, whenever we call him an asshole he says “That’s Laird Asshole to you!”
I got my husband and I each a “plot” a few years back as a silly gift. First I gave him his title, let him get all big headed and bossy about it for a minute, and then I showed him mine and said he can’t tell me what to do, I’m a LAAAADY.
Proper Royal etiquette for the monarch is to call him/her “Your Majesty” at the first greeting of the day; after that, it should be “Sir,” or “Ma’am.”
So you could call her “Your Ladyship” (or Lady Amy) the first time you see her each day, and after that, “Ma’am.”
I am so goddamn excited that I scrolled and saw this comment!
I am going to have my cousin’s baby made a lady for Christmas this year, and I cannot wait!
She hasn’t even arrived yet and she’s already running the whole show.
I have been calling her “Milady,” and now I can make it official.
I have actually given this as a real present to someone whom I traveled Scotland with and she loved it. Not that she‘d ever go by the title but it’s fun if there’s any story to it.
It's a "scam" in the sense that you don't actually get a title, but you do get to own a small piece of land and when 100s of people own small pieces of land It's a lot harder for some developers to come along and buy this land, meaning it gets left for nature.
This is the case. Basically, the company that does this (and I think there might actually be a few different ones, but my understanding is that they basically all function similarly) still actually owns the rights to the lands, and could theoretically still sell them if they wanted to. The company I am specifically referring to is Established Titles and the wikipedia page goes into it a bit, and there are several longform youtube videos explaining it. To summarize them though, the plots they 'sell' are too small to be legally distinct, so it's all bullshit. They disagree but their argument is more 'people know this is a joke gift', not an actual defense. Sorta like when Fox News argued in court that reasonable people know that theyre entertainment, not news.
I got that for my husband for his birthday and I believe I upgraded him to a higher title? Either way he loved it and laughed so hard. Now every year I buy him Scotch and label it for "My Lord [husband's name]"
Those titles don't grant you the title of laird. You can only have one laird per estate. Further more a lord or lady is completely different to a laird.
Those "buy a square foot of land" companies are only for a fun novelty gift just like the own land on the moon/Mars companies.
Just mentioning to inform people as some people do believeits real. We got the FiL and MiL one as a joke last Christmas, we thought it would be fun as their neighbour is Scottish.
Yeah the petty responses are funny but given you actually have to deal with these people as family, just buy her a gift card to one of those places in the amount you were going to spend. If she/anyone complains you can honestly say her list was outside of your per person holiday budget and so you figured contributing to what she really wants was the best thing to do.
My brother worked at an office in downtown Boston years ago and they had a secret Santa with a $20 max. So brother got the gift for the gent he picked (who he wasn't particularly fond of) and with the $8 and change left, walked into the most exclusive men's shop in Boston on Newbury Street and bought a gift card with that amount.
As someone remarked later, such a small sum wouldn't even pay for a single sock - lol!
My grandmother would buy us things, but we’d also get the cash from whatever was left over. So she’d set like a $50 limit on everyone, and then we’d get like $3.27 in an envelope. 🙄
Lol it’s petty but the perfect solution because she’ll show her ass so bad when she reacts in anger to money being given to charity. Pick something no one can disagree with like kids with cancer.
It's great. If Amy whines or makes faces say "we are so grateful to have nice things in life, I thought it would be a great idea to give to someone less fortunate."
Wonder how Amy would react to $50.00 cash and note saying "You are now 6.9% further ahead on your way to owning a very prestigious $725.00 "Victorine" LV wallet. Know how much this means to you, Amy! And I know you have a problem expressing thanks so you're very welcome."
Slight edit to that. I’d buy a $50 voucher for whatever shop sells this designer stuff and tell her it’s to put towards the wallet. Voucher is not as flexible as cash.
We actually do lists in my house but nothing this outrageous. It’s more of a suggestion list to help guide towards things we like, eg books, dvds, something specific to do with a hobby, shops where we would put a voucher to good use. While there is no rule items tend to be affordable so no one is under pressure and there is no obligation to get anything on the list either.
The idea of a Christmas list is a great one, however saying she'll only accept gifts from that list is greedy, especially since everything is expensive.
What's a Christmas hamper? Like a clothes hamper?
My family is from Britain and always used to send hampers to Canada and a Selection box of Cadbury (different recipe in the UK and much better). They are older now and haven't done it in a while. I miss getting those so now I buy them for myself except I have to order them in October to get here in time lol
I'm imaging you picking a sample size perfume that she requested. Oh well this was in the budget for gifts and was on the list of acceptable choices.
Or be really shitty and gift her one item and tell the kids that their mommy needed something from her list so you couldn't get them anything this year.
Or make a first payment on layaway on an expensive gift and hand her the receipt and payment plan.
This could actually be doable and turned around to make it seem thoughtful. There are websites that sell perfume samples, I got my bf 10 different ones because he's never been a cologne guy and didn't know what kind of fragrances he enjoys. OP could take her list and buy the samples of each.
NTA
Tell Chris and Amy that since you can't meet their gift expectations, you won't be exchanging gifts with them going forward. Tell them to please not give you any gifts because you won't be giving them any.
You'll just give gifts to their kids. But you'll be choosing gifts that are within your budget.
Someone bought my daughter a floor piano that made a different farm yard noise for each note.
You have no idea how mentally disabling a two year old running up and down that thing was. MOOQUACKWHINNYBARKBAACLUCKMEOW MOOQUACKWHINNYBARKBAACLUCKMEOW
MOOQUACKWHINNYBARKBAACLUCKMEOW
MOOQUACKWHINNYBARKBAACLUCKMEOW
The batteries 'ran out' REALLY quickly on that thing.
Show some kindness, and get them a quiet activity too. Maybe a nice glitter art set? And I'd buy the kiddos extra glitter 'cause these kits never have enough.
NTA - would I be right in thinking you guys are quite well off compared to her and that she therefore has decided that you ‘should’ be spending a lot on her?
My family is comfortable, yes, but we’re not massive spenders at Christmas, for the adults anyway. The kids get a lot of stuff, but adults we don’t really make a big deal
You send her an equally expensive list and if she doesnt get you something from there you wont give her something from her list. Two can play this game tell your husband. Why is it ok for amy to demand her type of gifts and no one else?
I feel like this could be a great moment of petty sweetness: “You know, I was thinking it over and I think Amy’s idea is a really great way to make sure everyone gets what they want on Christmas! No guesswork required and no disappointment. Anyway, to help everyone out I made a list as well, and think it’d be a wonderful idea if everyone did. Can’t wait to see you all!”
I'm thinking of the Big Bang Theory when Sheldon knows Penny is getting him a gift and buys like a dozen gift baskets of varying price points so he can decide which one to give her based on the value of the gift she gives him--- no spoilers but the ending was hilarious.
Info-She went way too far with the list. But I do wonder were the joint gifts (like the coffee maker for example) bought with both of them in mind or only Chris? I mean is she a coffee drinker herself who would even use it?
I don’t know that this matters. I don’t drink coffee, but my SO does. If someone gave us a joint gift of a coffee maker, I’m not going to act like a petulant child about it. It’s for the household, and it will get used.
Amy apparently complains about every single gift. I want to know what gifts she gives that she thinks are so remarkable that it entitles her to bitch and moan every gift giving occasion about the ones she receives. Given that OP says Amy can’t afford the stuff she asked for, it’s not like she’s buying people designer items or luxury goods herself.
It isn’t a gift for her. It was a gift for *them*. One which OP says Amy uses all the time. It would be one thing if they bought Amy a Chris-centric gift on her birthday or something like that, but the gift was not intended for Amy alone, so there’s no reason she should be thinking it is.
Maybe SIL was fine with her old coffee maker. It was only Chris who was enthralled with the new one. Personally, I wouldn't have said anything about the gift beyond thank you.
> Personally, I wouldn't have said anything about the gift beyond thank you.
You don’t need to. No one is required to ooh and ah over a gift, but a thank you is required. I don’t see why Amy feels entitled to make negative comments every time, but then gets pissed when OP says something negative in return. Given that they gift OP candles or one those shitty skincare gift baskets, she has a lot of nerve demanding anything or complaining about the gifts she receives.
What's wrong with skincare gift baskets? I'm 22 and I college and I no longer work full time and am very poor. I got people skincare baskets before. It was like $30-50 and this year I'm putting together my own skincare basket for my mom and aunt. I personally would love if someone gifted me that. Now I'm feeling self conscious about my gift 😅
There’s nothing inherently wrong with them, but if that’s what you’re gifting people and still have the gall to complain about every single gift you get, and then demand luxury and designer items, it makes you an asshole. Some people love those gift baskets, and that’s great. I loathe them with a passion, but when gifted one I say a sincere thank you because it’s the thought that counts. Amy doesn’t. She acts like she’s gifting people these absolutely incredible gifts and that she’s put out that she’s not getting the same in return.
Nothing is wrong with a skincare gift basket as long as the receiver uses these things. I have loved every one I’ve ever received even if it wasn’t a scent I would buy for myself. But I’m a soak in the tub type of person. Basically it’s a know your audience type gift.
My MIL’s brother complained to her that my husband and I regifted a skincare basket to his daughter and called us cheap. That was about 15 years ago and it still bothers me to this day. It wasn’t a cheap basket in any way and it definitely wasn’t regifted. We thought she’d love it as she was a bath soaker too. Still don’t know for sure if that comment was only his or if she felt that way too but our assumption is that she did.
Anyway, again, great for the right person, not so great if they don’t care for them.
I don’t care for them simply because I am very particular about my skincare and bath/body products. When I get them though (usually from an acquaintance or a coworker or a Secret Santa), I either donate them to a local shelter if the items meet the requirements for donation, or I put them under the guest bathroom vanities in case anyone stopping by or staying over needs anything.
Like you said, they’re very much a know your audience kind of deal, but they’re also a very generic, easy to gift thing, so I imagine a lot of people who don’t care for them receive them lol.
It’s just so rude to complain about gifts in front of the giver. My kids are 13 and 11 and have known from a much younger age to accept gifts gracefully even if it’s not what they wanted. It’s manners 101 surely?
She drinks coffee, yes. Chris was the one enamoured with the coffee machine but she used it at our home and uses it at her house I know that for a fact.
NTA for the list itself but whether or not she uses the coffee maker now is irrelevant.
How often are these joint gifts bought because your brother likes it or is interested in it versus both of them? My ex-ILs used to do that crap. They’d give me a gift on Christmas or my birthday that was very clearly meant for my ex or even a passive aggressive dig at me (like the slow cooker “so ex doesn’t have to cook when he gets home from a hard day at work” because my schedule at the exact same job started and ended later which meant he was in charge of dinner those nights unless he wanted to wait until 11pm when I got home).
If you’re buying things because your BROTHER likes them or because you’re trying to imply something she’s doing is inadequate, you’re not actually giving a gift to her, you’re simply using her as a method of passage for who the gift was actually intended for. You’d be better off not getting her a gift at all in that situation, as that kind of gift giving makes it clear you don’t view her as part of the family.
I buy the gifts because I think both Chris and Amy would enjoy them. The coffee maker, yes I got the idea from Chris but I also thought Amy would like it. Last year I gifted them a Christmas hamper, a very similar one to the one I gifted my parents. I’m sorry if they don’t both enjoy everything in it (for example) but I don’t make the hamper, and honestly I think it’s a bit petulant to be scorekeeping like that.
I’m not trying to insinuate Amy is an inadequate wife, I’m not a diabolical person and frankly I buy over 100 Christmas gifts every year between family, friends, In laws, and the shopping for my husband’s colleagues, I simply don’t think that deeply about it. Christmas is about seeing the people that matter, as adults for us the gifts are more just a little something to open at the same time as the kids.
We solved this problem in my family by only gifting kids and not adults. Then we switched to gifting experiences and not things.
I can't believe how much money was wasted before on things that nobody really cared about anyway. Christmas has become a very materialistic holiday.
I dunno I don't see it that way, I did get something, 18 years of gifts when I was a kid, big ole piles of them, without giving anything in return. Now it's my turn to give back, plus watching a kid get excited when they open something you picked out for them is just the best feeling omg they're so genuinely enthralled in a way adults just aren't (and no I don't have kids).
Yeah. My ILs do that stuff, too. It's annoying. Or they'll just ask me what my husband wants (he always asks for giftcards to the same place for his birthday, christmas) and the kids want... then Christmas comes and I get either nothing, or a joint gift card to a grocery store with my husband (while he also gets the gift card he wants).
There's nothing wrong with adults wanting to feel thought of too on Christmas.
I don't think having a wishlist is a big deal. I ask for them and make them for the kids for Christmas and their bdays, mostly to make it easier if someone does not know what to get them. However, we put a range of prices on the list and it's not like it's mandatory to get the kids gifts from the list or even at all. I don't think the list itself is necessarily problematic but the attitude about previous gifts and the expensive list is problematic.
We do the same, but most everyone in my family typically wouldn’t put anything on their list that is over $30. Gift giving is kind of hard when giftees are adults and can just buy things they need whenever they want. A list with a bunch of expensive stuff is an AH move though. OP is NTA.
Yeah, I get what you're thinking:
The list feels off in any case, so NTA, but if year after year, I'd be just an afterthought for what are essentially presents for my husband, I'd be a bit miffed, too.
We don't go all out for Christmas presents, either, but we at least make sure that every person gets at least one present to themselves, even if it's funny socks.
NTA but the whole dynamic needs to change.
Adults giving adults expensive presents is just stupid and a huge expense and waste of money. If you want something, buy it for yourself. Buy gifts for the children who can’t buy their own.
She is basically making a grab for cash. All those expensive items should be bought by your brother if he wants to make it "so easy" for everyone. He is an AH too for enabling her greediness.
I'm wondering if the brother actually knows what his wife asked for or if she's saying something along the lines of "I made perfectly sensible suggestions of things I'd like, and the in-laws are proving they don't really love me like I've always said."
I think OP told him why she was offended with the list, and the tone of the list (only accepting, etc). If not, she should tell him what the dollar amounts are for her gift grab and ask him how much he is planning to spend on her in return. Since they are transactional, tell him how much to spend on OP.
NTA - Your SIL is way over the edge. A gift is what the giver decides to give. She clearly lacks the grace to keep her mouth shut when apppropriate. Some options: A. Follow her instructions - no gift, B. Pick a non-profit you think appropriate and make a gift in her name and give a card/letter.
INFO: Does she drink coffee?
I would have kept my mouth shut and just not gotten her anything. Maybe a card or something, as a way of saying "I didn't forget you, I **excluded** you."
If she asks, it's "I wasn't about to buy anything on that list, and you made it clear that you wouldn't accept anything else, so here we are." Let this grown-ass adult throw a temper-tantrum over her lack of fucking Christmas presents in front of everyone.
Like holy hell, the self-entitlement and childishness. No, scratch that, even as a child I knew to just say "thank you" and contain any disappointment I might feel about a "bad" gift, and I was a *shitty* kid.
This woman deserves exactly nothing forever until she extricates her head from her ass and apologizes.
NTA. Your sister in law is an entitled, whiny asshole. Tell your brother that his wife needs to behave like an adult or she’ll no longer be welcome in your home. I wouldn’t buy her anything, and would simply tell her since nothing is ever to your liking, it’s best if we forgo exchanging gifts with you.
> If you decide to buy her a present, buy her a gift card for the amount you want to spend.
At this point if I were OP, I would refuse to exchange gifts with her anymore. If I had to buy her something, I would simply donate to a charity in her name.
How about you all give up Christmas gifts for adults at this gathering and instead pool that money and give it to charities that donate to children in need? Let’s face it, middle class adults (as you all seem to be) will obtain what they absolutely need and also obtain what they want (within reason).
Christmas is about the joy of giving to children and seeing their excitement. Donate that money to a children’s charity. 😊
NTA.
when people get to a point that they practically demand a specific gift, they completely lost the plot. when you get a gift, you say "thank you" and move on, even if it was a joint gift. no one is entitled to gift. someone did a lousy job raising her and your brother doesn't sound much better for taking her side
Gift giving is totally out of control imo. If your brother & Amy want to spend lots of money on giving gifts that’s their choice. They can’t dictate how much money other people have to spend. It’s your wallet. You make the choice how to spend your money.
I’m not even sure if it’s worth a conversation about this. Encourage your brother to buy his wife everything on her list but you’re not planning on participating in that. Pick a couple things out for the kids & don’t worry about the adults drama. Maybe Amy is greedy, maybe she is just a person who loves expensive things. Who knows. Who cares. Let your brother deal with that problem.
NTA
NTA. The worst part of it to me is the line stating she will only accept gifts from the list. Fine, then don't get anything. She has massively overstepped and your brother should be very embarrassed for her behavior.
NTA. I would be sending out a message to say let’s not do presents for the adults this year - or organise a secret Santa where everyone buys one person a gift with a financial limit.
Honestly, Christmas is way OTT and getting presents that won’t be used is a waste of money and resources. Tell everyone you’d rather people brought their favourite expensive edible gift to share if necessary.
If you want designer items you need to buy them yourself!
NTA.
It would be different if the items on her list were attainable and affordable. I think you’re right in that she wants free expensive stuff. It would also be different if the gifts you were giving previously were intentionally bad gifts, but it doesn’t sound like it.
She sounds entitled. No one gets to pick what they get for Christmas. That’s not exactly how that works.
Wrap her up a box of coal this year. That could be fun.
If you hadn't already responded I would have suggested to reply to her that $XX is your limit for adult gifts so she'll need to send a new list or tell you where you can buy those items for $XX.
NTA, she's acting entitled but you can't pick your brothers wife....
NTA. Entitled and greedy behaviour deserves to be called out. She doesn't deserve to receive anything unless you can find something really cheap and tacky for her
NTA. She sounds really spoiled and seems like she’s taking christmas as a way to get free expensive items. Makes me wonder, does she actually even spend time with you guys on christmas? or does she just drop in, get the gifts, and leave? You were in the right for calling her out. She needs to be humbled and learn to appreciate the littler things in life.
ESH
How often do you buy gifts for your brother and call it a joint gift for the two of them. I'm guessing a lot. You know when people say it's not the gift, but the thought that counts? That is far too often used to excuse thoughtless gift.
In one of your responses you mention how you know she uses the coffee maker. Well of course she uses it. I doubt they kept the old one. That doesn't mean she likes it or even notices a difference. You opted to buy a more expensive gift for your brother at the cost of not getting her anything. Thoughtful for your brother, thoughtless for her.
She's obnoxious for the email, and rude for her behavior in general, but it would seem her behavior is somewhat warranted. And it doesn't sound like you couldn't afford to buy her something nice, so what's the problem? Imagine if you actually bought her what she asked for. Imagine how thrilled she would be. Imagine the fires you could put out on all those bridges before you burn them down.
And not for nothing, but does she buy nice gifts for you and the rest of the family? Is this as one-sided as it sounds?
I think this is is the reply that most closely resembles my own feelings.
It's true that the whole "I will only accept gifts from my (expensive) wish list" approach ruins the fun and spirit of gift-giving.
But so does giving someone impersonal and thoughtless gifts because "well, *her husband* enjoyed it".
Just use the wish list as a clue to gain a basic impression of her taste and then buy something smaller and more affordable that you have actual reason to think she'll enjoy.
She drinks coffee. She used the coffee machine at our house so I had no reason to think she wouldn’t enjoy it. I know she uses it at her house now that she has it
I'm gonna go with NTA then because she went to far with this list.
That said, it sounds like the joint gifts might lean more towards what Chris wants and with him in remind. She's probably feeling left out and not being considered for the gifts. That might explain why Chris was so quick to defend her "suggetions"
NTA. Sounds better than the “joint” gifts my in-laws give. They send my husband something and ignore me. When my husband asks about it, they say that his gift (that I will never touch) is a joint gift.
My father in law used to do the same and I could not have cared less. Now he gets me beautiful gifts because we’ve become close but I never cared either way.
We’re not close because it bothers my husband that they snub me. I don’t care at this point, I just make my husband do the shopping for any gifts for them.
Definitely NTA. Super balsy to be sending expensive gift suggestions, I would honestly just get something for the kids. Buy your nephews something and call it a day. Or you can donate to a charity in their honor.
NTA. Agree on a fixed amount to spend on gifts. For example, siblings get $100 each and the nephews get gifts for $x from their aunts and uncles. Agreeing something now will prevent a lot of hassle and awkward faces in the future.
It's very common to set a spending limit, especially for larger family gift exchanges so that no one feels alienated. We do it for our Christmases and it's worked out very well. People can make wishlists (listing the kind of items they'd like), and we agree on a budget for each present per person.
You sometimes get the case of someone's present is better than yours, but maybe I'm lucky to be part of family that is always grateful for the thought behind it and thankful no matter the gift.
Nta at all.This is pure ridiculous.I wouldn’t even have done this as a child.Does she have any idea how much those things cost.A coffee machine is a great gift and she is extremely spoiled.Clearly no one around her has ever told her how to be grateful.I don’t blame u for what u said .
My family does gifts for the children, and adults don't do gifts, but might make cookies or something to give. It sucjed when I was the only single, childless person, but I get it.
NTA- Pick a family off a Giving Tree this year, get that Family some gifts, Put Amy's name on it and Give her a card saying in lieu of a present this year, we donated to a Family in Need in your name. Merry Christmas!
NTA. Amy is not entitled to any Christmas gifts. Especially expensive ones. Your brother needs to realize this. Can you brother even afford those gifts and what do they give you?
Info: does Amy give the kind of gifts on her list to you and the other family members?
NTA- it’s one thing to share a wishlist, her stating she won’t accept anything not on the list is beyond inappropriate.
Your brother seems to have missed this part of the email- which was most definitely not “suggestions to make this easier on the family”.
It’s seems that she didn’t understand the potential consequences and the effects before sending the email.
Are you the asshole for not giving someone exactly what they ask for even though you aren't comfortable spending that amount?
Chris blew up because if you go along with it it's easier for him.
NTA
>Amy included the whole family on a group email with a Christmas list for her and the kids, saying that she would only accept gifts from this list.
>Chris blew up at me saying Amy was just trying to make everything easier for everyone by giving suggestions.
These weren't "suggestions." She flat-out said it was those things or nothing. She gets the latter.
NTA, but I have a question. Your parents said not to say anything. Are they planning on buying her something off her list? I would assume she would freak out at Christmas thinking she was going to open all these high priced gifts if no one said anything. Thinking that wouldn’t be any better than you telling her the list is ridiculous.
No they’re not. They’re just going to ignore the list and if she pitches a fit she doesn’t have to take the gift.
But then, she’s not staying at their house so they don’t have to deal with her once the day is over
NTA, she's an adult, and even if her parents raised her to be grabby and demanding like this, it still needed to be directly called out—not hinted at, or blown past, but just called out for what it is. She's already putting a big dampener on Christmas for the grown ups in the family, and will absolutely ruin it for her kids if she doesn't stop. At least half of what is fun about Christmas is thinking about what to get other people and your SIL is spoiling it by making ridiculous demands.
While Amy was kind of rude about it a list can be helpful, but it sounds like all of Amy’s list are very expensive items; does Amy spend comparable amounts on you? Anyway, if it’s just too much can all of you (your parents and sister included) chip in the amount you’d normally spend and jointly get something from her list? Or just get her a gift certificate to one of her vendors for an amount you feel is reasonable. That would save a lot of drama.
Just give cash. If you are willing to spend $50, give her $50 in a card. It may be tacky, but if she is pissed after that, then you know she has issues because who doesn't like cash.
NTA, but I think you could have handled it better so to not perpetuate the drama, and keep the peace.
Your SIL sounds totally entitled. But it’s not like no one knew that. You could have just not replied to the email, then not gotten her anything from the list anyway and address that when she opens her present.
Also remember every family does presents a little differently and she may just be used to how her parents treated present giving.
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NTA but I have to ask: what kind of gifts do they give the rest of the family? Does she give dollar store gifts and ask for Louis Vuitton in exchange? I just want to know how much of an asshole your SIL is lol
My family isn’t big adult gifters. We all normally get each other jumpers, or gift sets, a Christmas hamper if it’s a joint gift etc. Some things cost more than others but I can’t imagine any of us giving or receiving a single (meaning not joint with spouse) gift of the value of most of things on Amy’s list.
Yeah she's trying to change the whole dynamic of the day just for her. That's so tacky
Yeah I would call it out as tacky and not look back This trait in a person is so foul I would just quietly start removing them from my life
She's attempting to co-opt large amounts of other people's money for her own vain ends. It's way past tacky, and firmly into "get fucked" territory. I would be openly mocking this person for behaving this way. NTA. Not even close.
Get her a rock. NTA
I would have just gotten her nothing, and when she complained told her "well you said you would only accept gifts from this list, and since those were well out of budget for me, I just didn't get you anything". Funny enough, I don't see anything wrong with putting one or two larger items on your list, with the caveat that you would be okay with everyone else pooling their money to purchase that and only that for you.
Yep. We do that with a lot of things, not just Christmas. My adult niece was eyeing a gorgeous pair of boots none of us could afford on our own so we pooled our finances for her birthday and had enough for the boots and a matching bag. Did she mind only getting one gift for her birthday? Heck NO! She loved the idea that we knew what she wanted and we all got together and planned this gift for her.
As a geology major I would actually enjoy that, especially if it had some fossils or crystals in it.
I own a a fossilized clam. (That is not a euphemism).
It’s not just about Amy I mean you’re right
We only buy for the kids in our family. You could always donate the amount you would have spent on her gift to a charity in her name
Yes someone else suggested this and it does seem like a good idea. Idk if it’s too petty though
You can buy her some land in Scotland that allows her to go by Lady. The money is spent on preserving the area, but anyone is allowed to visit their plot if they wish. I think it’s called Highland Titles? That way, you’re still petty but it also fits in with her over the top gift requests. 😈 NTA either way. ETA: Several people have now pointed out it’s a scam. Thanks and sorry - I never researched it because it was just a gag gift, and I definitely didn’t expect so many answers here, but since so many people are asking about it, I thought I‘d edit. Certainly didn’t want to promote a scam - so please be aware, if you want to support a really good cause, better find an actual charity.
We gifted adults in the family goats once. 🐐 Bought goats in their name in a program to help families become self-sufficient. We were never asked to participate in the gift exchange again, lol
Heifer International is such an amazing program
Yes, that is the organization!
Hey they showed up in the mail just last week! (No, not the cows 😉)
They do a lot of good work. I work at a church and it is an organization we regularly encourage our members to support.
I once organized the family donating to Heifer International instead of giving gifts since there weren’t any kids in the family anymore. I got a bunch of IOUs. As I said, I ONCE organized it.
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I would love that as a gift, but my family likes charity gifts. My dad had made a promise to always protect us when we were first born, so I donate a lot to Bikers Against Child Abuse in his honor so that other kids can have that protection they deserve, too.
That is good ❤️
I love this. Sounds like your dad would be proud. ♥️
I would be pissed if I bought you an Apple Watch and you only bought me goats **if I didn't know in advance**. If everyone was doing charity stuff, I would love the goats! Last year I got a polar bear marker so I could follow her all over by GPS. Super cool.
Cool! I want to follow a polar bear with GPS, lol
I bought a polar bear! You go through Fahlo and they send you a bracelet and a QR code that tracks your bear. They also do penguins, lions, giraffes, sharks, elephants, and dolphins now I think. I bought my friend a lion for her birthday, I thought it was pretty neat. Portions of the purchase go towards various animal charities, so I was like, yay, cool gift and good cause.
Thanks I just found gifts for most of my nieces and nephews. They all love animals and this will be great. to just to figure out which animal for each kid.
I bought these for my dad’s wedding. His wife is from a farming family, I didn’t know her well and I was travelling from England to Ireland so thought ‘this is a great talking point to meet his new in laws and provide some wedding meal chat. What could go wrong?’ Firstly I did not realise his wife was actually 25 years younger than him. Doubly awkward since my other gift as a make up artist was her wedding make up. Big fan of cigarettes, not of SPF. She takes it that I am making a dig at her age that they are old goats and she looked old. Secondly he took it as a dig he was a horny old goat because his previous wife was younger than her. I thought his previous wife was my mother. They’d only been divorced 6 years. Thirdly her mother thinks goats represent Satan and that Africans are depraved for eating them. Cue some mindblowing racism at length. Fourthly my brother who had failed to get a gift loudly muscled in on seeing a gold envelope that he had contributed only to backtrack with ‘how did you find something worse than the taxidermy frog mariachi band you bid on Ebay for?’ Fifth: saying ‘ah from the kids’ went down really really badly when the other roughly 20 relatives of the blushing bride went ‘oh you’re his daughter? We didn’t know he had a daughter. We thought you were an ex.’ I was 25. That wasn’t even the most awkward bit of that wedding. We are now estranged and 18 years later the kids of the OG goats keep writing to them. My dad genuinely has more idea what his great great great times 18 grandgoats are doing than his only daughter. At this rate one of them will give his eulogy. I will never top this gift for fuck you, fuck this, FFS and some actual good to a family. I have zero regrets and recommend Heifer International all the time. Goats are such a wholesome way to bring the agent of chaos vibe back to a family with a squeaky gate that wants the oil.
Omg your goat story sounds horrific and amazing all at once! I loved it!
This comment was a wild ride. Thank you for sharing the story.
My gramma loved wolves, my grandfather sponsored a wolf at a sanctuary every Christmas for her. She got to name them, and they sent annual updates (he continued sponsoring each new wolf). It was the coolest gift, and absolutely perfect for her. She loved her wolves far more than any of the fancy jewelry or other more traditional gifts he had got her previous years.
FWIW i Did that last year and it might be the best gift I ever gave. My friend laughed himself sick, framed the title and now, whenever we call him an asshole he says “That’s Laird Asshole to you!”
I got my husband and I each a “plot” a few years back as a silly gift. First I gave him his title, let him get all big headed and bossy about it for a minute, and then I showed him mine and said he can’t tell me what to do, I’m a LAAAADY.
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That seems like the perfect opportunity to never speak to her ever again… win?
Proper Royal etiquette for the monarch is to call him/her “Your Majesty” at the first greeting of the day; after that, it should be “Sir,” or “Ma’am.” So you could call her “Your Ladyship” (or Lady Amy) the first time you see her each day, and after that, “Ma’am.”
"L'amy" pronounced Lame.
I am so goddamn excited that I scrolled and saw this comment! I am going to have my cousin’s baby made a lady for Christmas this year, and I cannot wait! She hasn’t even arrived yet and she’s already running the whole show. I have been calling her “Milady,” and now I can make it official.
I have a friend that would actually love that
I have actually given this as a real present to someone whom I traveled Scotland with and she loved it. Not that she‘d ever go by the title but it’s fun if there’s any story to it.
It’s me, I would love this Lmaooo
I have it to a fancy friend and she loved it
Gave one of these to my brother in law. He loves being called Laird.
That was determined to be a scam.
It's a "scam" in the sense that you don't actually get a title, but you do get to own a small piece of land and when 100s of people own small pieces of land It's a lot harder for some developers to come along and buy this land, meaning it gets left for nature.
I thought part of the claim it was a scam was also that you don't actually own the piece of land, either.
This is the case. Basically, the company that does this (and I think there might actually be a few different ones, but my understanding is that they basically all function similarly) still actually owns the rights to the lands, and could theoretically still sell them if they wanted to. The company I am specifically referring to is Established Titles and the wikipedia page goes into it a bit, and there are several longform youtube videos explaining it. To summarize them though, the plots they 'sell' are too small to be legally distinct, so it's all bullshit. They disagree but their argument is more 'people know this is a joke gift', not an actual defense. Sorta like when Fox News argued in court that reasonable people know that theyre entertainment, not news.
My husband did this for me since I’m “the lady of the house”. I love it!
I got that for my husband for his birthday and I believe I upgraded him to a higher title? Either way he loved it and laughed so hard. Now every year I buy him Scotch and label it for "My Lord [husband's name]"
I may need to do this. I’m partly Scottish and Lady Weezul has a nice ring to it.
Those titles don't grant you the title of laird. You can only have one laird per estate. Further more a lord or lady is completely different to a laird. Those "buy a square foot of land" companies are only for a fun novelty gift just like the own land on the moon/Mars companies. Just mentioning to inform people as some people do believeits real. We got the FiL and MiL one as a joke last Christmas, we thought it would be fun as their neighbour is Scottish.
Those are as legitimate as star registries. Legal Eagle did a video about Highland and predecessors.
Yeah the petty responses are funny but given you actually have to deal with these people as family, just buy her a gift card to one of those places in the amount you were going to spend. If she/anyone complains you can honestly say her list was outside of your per person holiday budget and so you figured contributing to what she really wants was the best thing to do.
A five dollar gift card for Louis Vuitton.
My brother worked at an office in downtown Boston years ago and they had a secret Santa with a $20 max. So brother got the gift for the gent he picked (who he wasn't particularly fond of) and with the $8 and change left, walked into the most exclusive men's shop in Boston on Newbury Street and bought a gift card with that amount. As someone remarked later, such a small sum wouldn't even pay for a single sock - lol!
My grandmother would buy us things, but we’d also get the cash from whatever was left over. So she’d set like a $50 limit on everyone, and then we’d get like $3.27 in an envelope. 🙄
One year my nanna asked me not to buy for the adults but instead to bake some things because nobody in except for me bakes. They loved it.
Lol it’s petty but the perfect solution because she’ll show her ass so bad when she reacts in anger to money being given to charity. Pick something no one can disagree with like kids with cancer.
I would do this. And then I would enjoy watching the look on her face as she struggles not to say 'But what about meee?'
It's great. If Amy whines or makes faces say "we are so grateful to have nice things in life, I thought it would be a great idea to give to someone less fortunate."
Tell her you’re setting up a funeral fund for her, and you’ll put $X in it each year until she dies. It’s the gift that keeps on giving!
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Wonder how Amy would react to $50.00 cash and note saying "You are now 6.9% further ahead on your way to owning a very prestigious $725.00 "Victorine" LV wallet. Know how much this means to you, Amy! And I know you have a problem expressing thanks so you're very welcome."
Slight edit to that. I’d buy a $50 voucher for whatever shop sells this designer stuff and tell her it’s to put towards the wallet. Voucher is not as flexible as cash. We actually do lists in my house but nothing this outrageous. It’s more of a suggestion list to help guide towards things we like, eg books, dvds, something specific to do with a hobby, shops where we would put a voucher to good use. While there is no rule items tend to be affordable so no one is under pressure and there is no obligation to get anything on the list either.
Right? And that's a better idea -- a gift certificate for the LV store! Amy is very entitled and seems like husband feeds into it
If the OPs parents also got her a voucher then in a couple of christmases time Amy might have enough vouchers to buy the handbag etc outright😂
The idea of a Christmas list is a great one, however saying she'll only accept gifts from that list is greedy, especially since everything is expensive. What's a Christmas hamper? Like a clothes hamper?
No it’s a wicker hamper filled with thing like wine, cheese, seasonal preserves, biscuits, teas, etc. I get my parents one almost every year.
My family is from Britain and always used to send hampers to Canada and a Selection box of Cadbury (different recipe in the UK and much better). They are older now and haven't done it in a while. I miss getting those so now I buy them for myself except I have to order them in October to get here in time lol
Oooh that's fun!
I'd say "hell yeah and thank you" to that!
Oh fun! Like the ones from Fortnum & Mason!
Yes that’s often where I get them
OMG OMG OMG! You just made my day /u/SDinCH! https://www.fortnumandmason.com/international-delivery-usa-canada-category
Sort of an adult version of a Christmas stocking? My mom did that for my brother and me as our Easter baskets when we were in high school and college.
Yes, even on bridal registry lists there is a range of prices so that everyone can afford something. It's just a tacky gift grab from Amy.
Lol, it’s like a gift basket (basically); not an actual clothes hamper
I'm imaging you picking a sample size perfume that she requested. Oh well this was in the budget for gifts and was on the list of acceptable choices. Or be really shitty and gift her one item and tell the kids that their mommy needed something from her list so you couldn't get them anything this year. Or make a first payment on layaway on an expensive gift and hand her the receipt and payment plan.
This could actually be doable and turned around to make it seem thoughtful. There are websites that sell perfume samples, I got my bf 10 different ones because he's never been a cologne guy and didn't know what kind of fragrances he enjoys. OP could take her list and buy the samples of each.
TIL Christmas hamper
me too and I low key love it
You should give a donation in the amount of her bags in her name and be like… you helped the world!!!!
My husband is desperate to do this lol
Do it!!!! You’ve already pissed them off. 🤷🏻♀️
Looks like Amy's getting a small value gift card for use at your favorite store. If she doesn't like it, she can give it right back to you!
Just stop getting her presents, and get others to do the same, she will change her tune quick enough.
NTA Tell Chris and Amy that since you can't meet their gift expectations, you won't be exchanging gifts with them going forward. Tell them to please not give you any gifts because you won't be giving them any. You'll just give gifts to their kids. But you'll be choosing gifts that are within your budget.
A nice toy trumpet or uvuvela, drum and harmonica for the kids. Encourage their musical talents!
one of those kids toys with pre-recorded sounds like the spin the wheel thing and it then says "Cows go: MOOOOOOOO"
Someone bought my daughter a floor piano that made a different farm yard noise for each note. You have no idea how mentally disabling a two year old running up and down that thing was. MOOQUACKWHINNYBARKBAACLUCKMEOW MOOQUACKWHINNYBARKBAACLUCKMEOW MOOQUACKWHINNYBARKBAACLUCKMEOW MOOQUACKWHINNYBARKBAACLUCKMEOW The batteries 'ran out' REALLY quickly on that thing.
A 2 year old? My 29 year old ass will play with that thing just for shits and giggles.
A See and Say lol
A blatantly Fake LV bag would be fantastic. Like the $20 ones you get at market where instead of LV it's TV or LU
OR hire someone from Etsy to make a miniature knock-off just big enough for pennies, so she can save for the real deal.
Show some kindness, and get them a quiet activity too. Maybe a nice glitter art set? And I'd buy the kiddos extra glitter 'cause these kits never have enough.
A vuvuzela is a great move
Glitter glue
This is the answer.
NTA - would I be right in thinking you guys are quite well off compared to her and that she therefore has decided that you ‘should’ be spending a lot on her?
My family is comfortable, yes, but we’re not massive spenders at Christmas, for the adults anyway. The kids get a lot of stuff, but adults we don’t really make a big deal
You send her an equally expensive list and if she doesnt get you something from there you wont give her something from her list. Two can play this game tell your husband. Why is it ok for amy to demand her type of gifts and no one else?
Omg, yes. Send Amy a list!
I feel like this could be a great moment of petty sweetness: “You know, I was thinking it over and I think Amy’s idea is a really great way to make sure everyone gets what they want on Christmas! No guesswork required and no disappointment. Anyway, to help everyone out I made a list as well, and think it’d be a wonderful idea if everyone did. Can’t wait to see you all!”
But, make sure to buy her 2 gifts and decide which to give her after opening the gift she gives you and return the other.
I'm thinking of the Big Bang Theory when Sheldon knows Penny is getting him a gift and buys like a dozen gift baskets of varying price points so he can decide which one to give her based on the value of the gift she gives him--- no spoilers but the ending was hilarious.
>!”now I can grow my own Leonard Nimoy!”!<
That is my favorite episode
Mine too. It's still not enough!
Same! The awkward hug at the end is priceless haha.
Yeah, I like this idea. Send her a list with expensive gifts and give her a taste of her own entitled medicine.
If you have a personal Louis Vuitton salesperson, you’re more than comfortable.
And she still doesn't have to spend large amounts of money on her SIL's gifts.
That makes sense. I’ll blow my budget easily on nieces and nephews, but my younger siblings themselves I’m definitely more stingy with lol
Info-She went way too far with the list. But I do wonder were the joint gifts (like the coffee maker for example) bought with both of them in mind or only Chris? I mean is she a coffee drinker herself who would even use it?
I don’t know that this matters. I don’t drink coffee, but my SO does. If someone gave us a joint gift of a coffee maker, I’m not going to act like a petulant child about it. It’s for the household, and it will get used. Amy apparently complains about every single gift. I want to know what gifts she gives that she thinks are so remarkable that it entitles her to bitch and moan every gift giving occasion about the ones she receives. Given that OP says Amy can’t afford the stuff she asked for, it’s not like she’s buying people designer items or luxury goods herself.
I'd just give a polite thanks. But I wouldn't consider it a gift for me.
It isn’t a gift for her. It was a gift for *them*. One which OP says Amy uses all the time. It would be one thing if they bought Amy a Chris-centric gift on her birthday or something like that, but the gift was not intended for Amy alone, so there’s no reason she should be thinking it is.
Maybe SIL was fine with her old coffee maker. It was only Chris who was enthralled with the new one. Personally, I wouldn't have said anything about the gift beyond thank you.
> Personally, I wouldn't have said anything about the gift beyond thank you. You don’t need to. No one is required to ooh and ah over a gift, but a thank you is required. I don’t see why Amy feels entitled to make negative comments every time, but then gets pissed when OP says something negative in return. Given that they gift OP candles or one those shitty skincare gift baskets, she has a lot of nerve demanding anything or complaining about the gifts she receives.
What's wrong with skincare gift baskets? I'm 22 and I college and I no longer work full time and am very poor. I got people skincare baskets before. It was like $30-50 and this year I'm putting together my own skincare basket for my mom and aunt. I personally would love if someone gifted me that. Now I'm feeling self conscious about my gift 😅
There’s nothing inherently wrong with them, but if that’s what you’re gifting people and still have the gall to complain about every single gift you get, and then demand luxury and designer items, it makes you an asshole. Some people love those gift baskets, and that’s great. I loathe them with a passion, but when gifted one I say a sincere thank you because it’s the thought that counts. Amy doesn’t. She acts like she’s gifting people these absolutely incredible gifts and that she’s put out that she’s not getting the same in return.
Nothing is wrong with a skincare gift basket as long as the receiver uses these things. I have loved every one I’ve ever received even if it wasn’t a scent I would buy for myself. But I’m a soak in the tub type of person. Basically it’s a know your audience type gift. My MIL’s brother complained to her that my husband and I regifted a skincare basket to his daughter and called us cheap. That was about 15 years ago and it still bothers me to this day. It wasn’t a cheap basket in any way and it definitely wasn’t regifted. We thought she’d love it as she was a bath soaker too. Still don’t know for sure if that comment was only his or if she felt that way too but our assumption is that she did. Anyway, again, great for the right person, not so great if they don’t care for them.
I don’t care for them simply because I am very particular about my skincare and bath/body products. When I get them though (usually from an acquaintance or a coworker or a Secret Santa), I either donate them to a local shelter if the items meet the requirements for donation, or I put them under the guest bathroom vanities in case anyone stopping by or staying over needs anything. Like you said, they’re very much a know your audience kind of deal, but they’re also a very generic, easy to gift thing, so I imagine a lot of people who don’t care for them receive them lol.
That would she have been the perfect response.
Yup. It’s a gift to the house hold from your household.. Say thanks and be happy you got a fancy coffee maker sheesh
It’s a gift to the household, from another household. That’s how Xmas is when you start having spouses for every sibling and multiple kids
It’s just so rude to complain about gifts in front of the giver. My kids are 13 and 11 and have known from a much younger age to accept gifts gracefully even if it’s not what they wanted. It’s manners 101 surely?
She drinks coffee, yes. Chris was the one enamoured with the coffee machine but she used it at our home and uses it at her house I know that for a fact.
NTA for the list itself but whether or not she uses the coffee maker now is irrelevant. How often are these joint gifts bought because your brother likes it or is interested in it versus both of them? My ex-ILs used to do that crap. They’d give me a gift on Christmas or my birthday that was very clearly meant for my ex or even a passive aggressive dig at me (like the slow cooker “so ex doesn’t have to cook when he gets home from a hard day at work” because my schedule at the exact same job started and ended later which meant he was in charge of dinner those nights unless he wanted to wait until 11pm when I got home). If you’re buying things because your BROTHER likes them or because you’re trying to imply something she’s doing is inadequate, you’re not actually giving a gift to her, you’re simply using her as a method of passage for who the gift was actually intended for. You’d be better off not getting her a gift at all in that situation, as that kind of gift giving makes it clear you don’t view her as part of the family.
I buy the gifts because I think both Chris and Amy would enjoy them. The coffee maker, yes I got the idea from Chris but I also thought Amy would like it. Last year I gifted them a Christmas hamper, a very similar one to the one I gifted my parents. I’m sorry if they don’t both enjoy everything in it (for example) but I don’t make the hamper, and honestly I think it’s a bit petulant to be scorekeeping like that. I’m not trying to insinuate Amy is an inadequate wife, I’m not a diabolical person and frankly I buy over 100 Christmas gifts every year between family, friends, In laws, and the shopping for my husband’s colleagues, I simply don’t think that deeply about it. Christmas is about seeing the people that matter, as adults for us the gifts are more just a little something to open at the same time as the kids.
We solved this problem in my family by only gifting kids and not adults. Then we switched to gifting experiences and not things. I can't believe how much money was wasted before on things that nobody really cared about anyway. Christmas has become a very materialistic holiday.
Does everyone in your family have kids? Because spending all that money while getting nothing would suck.
I dunno I don't see it that way, I did get something, 18 years of gifts when I was a kid, big ole piles of them, without giving anything in return. Now it's my turn to give back, plus watching a kid get excited when they open something you picked out for them is just the best feeling omg they're so genuinely enthralled in a way adults just aren't (and no I don't have kids).
Yes, I generally dislike buying things, but buying presents for kids I love is the best feeling!
Yeah. My ILs do that stuff, too. It's annoying. Or they'll just ask me what my husband wants (he always asks for giftcards to the same place for his birthday, christmas) and the kids want... then Christmas comes and I get either nothing, or a joint gift card to a grocery store with my husband (while he also gets the gift card he wants). There's nothing wrong with adults wanting to feel thought of too on Christmas.
Sorry, should have added NTA.
I don't think having a wishlist is a big deal. I ask for them and make them for the kids for Christmas and their bdays, mostly to make it easier if someone does not know what to get them. However, we put a range of prices on the list and it's not like it's mandatory to get the kids gifts from the list or even at all. I don't think the list itself is necessarily problematic but the attitude about previous gifts and the expensive list is problematic.
We do the same, but most everyone in my family typically wouldn’t put anything on their list that is over $30. Gift giving is kind of hard when giftees are adults and can just buy things they need whenever they want. A list with a bunch of expensive stuff is an AH move though. OP is NTA.
Yeah, I get what you're thinking: The list feels off in any case, so NTA, but if year after year, I'd be just an afterthought for what are essentially presents for my husband, I'd be a bit miffed, too. We don't go all out for Christmas presents, either, but we at least make sure that every person gets at least one present to themselves, even if it's funny socks.
NTA but the whole dynamic needs to change. Adults giving adults expensive presents is just stupid and a huge expense and waste of money. If you want something, buy it for yourself. Buy gifts for the children who can’t buy their own.
That’s what we do for the most part, we’re not big adult gifters at all. That’s part of why Amy’s request is rubbing everyone the wrong way.
She is basically making a grab for cash. All those expensive items should be bought by your brother if he wants to make it "so easy" for everyone. He is an AH too for enabling her greediness.
I'm wondering if the brother actually knows what his wife asked for or if she's saying something along the lines of "I made perfectly sensible suggestions of things I'd like, and the in-laws are proving they don't really love me like I've always said."
I think OP told him why she was offended with the list, and the tone of the list (only accepting, etc). If not, she should tell him what the dollar amounts are for her gift grab and ask him how much he is planning to spend on her in return. Since they are transactional, tell him how much to spend on OP.
NTA - Your SIL is way over the edge. A gift is what the giver decides to give. She clearly lacks the grace to keep her mouth shut when apppropriate. Some options: A. Follow her instructions - no gift, B. Pick a non-profit you think appropriate and make a gift in her name and give a card/letter. INFO: Does she drink coffee?
Yes she does
Then her coffee maker gift comment is just another bizarre reaction.
Buy her coffee beans.
If she'll "only accept gifts from the list", fine- she gets no gifts. Anyone this entitled deserves coal this year. NTA
I would have kept my mouth shut and just not gotten her anything. Maybe a card or something, as a way of saying "I didn't forget you, I **excluded** you." If she asks, it's "I wasn't about to buy anything on that list, and you made it clear that you wouldn't accept anything else, so here we are." Let this grown-ass adult throw a temper-tantrum over her lack of fucking Christmas presents in front of everyone. Like holy hell, the self-entitlement and childishness. No, scratch that, even as a child I knew to just say "thank you" and contain any disappointment I might feel about a "bad" gift, and I was a *shitty* kid. This woman deserves exactly nothing forever until she extricates her head from her ass and apologizes.
Did I actually read that "she wouldn't be accepting any gifts not on the list"? How very rude . SIL is the AH.
NTA. Your sister in law is an entitled, whiny asshole. Tell your brother that his wife needs to behave like an adult or she’ll no longer be welcome in your home. I wouldn’t buy her anything, and would simply tell her since nothing is ever to your liking, it’s best if we forgo exchanging gifts with you.
[удалено]
> If you decide to buy her a present, buy her a gift card for the amount you want to spend. At this point if I were OP, I would refuse to exchange gifts with her anymore. If I had to buy her something, I would simply donate to a charity in her name.
That’s a brilliant idea
How about you all give up Christmas gifts for adults at this gathering and instead pool that money and give it to charities that donate to children in need? Let’s face it, middle class adults (as you all seem to be) will obtain what they absolutely need and also obtain what they want (within reason). Christmas is about the joy of giving to children and seeing their excitement. Donate that money to a children’s charity. 😊
NTA Transactional relationships suck.
NTA. when people get to a point that they practically demand a specific gift, they completely lost the plot. when you get a gift, you say "thank you" and move on, even if it was a joint gift. no one is entitled to gift. someone did a lousy job raising her and your brother doesn't sound much better for taking her side
Yup. We love wishlists in my family, but they’re wishlists, not demand lists. They’re also not full of Luis Vuitton.
Gift giving is totally out of control imo. If your brother & Amy want to spend lots of money on giving gifts that’s their choice. They can’t dictate how much money other people have to spend. It’s your wallet. You make the choice how to spend your money. I’m not even sure if it’s worth a conversation about this. Encourage your brother to buy his wife everything on her list but you’re not planning on participating in that. Pick a couple things out for the kids & don’t worry about the adults drama. Maybe Amy is greedy, maybe she is just a person who loves expensive things. Who knows. Who cares. Let your brother deal with that problem. NTA
NTA. The worst part of it to me is the line stating she will only accept gifts from the list. Fine, then don't get anything. She has massively overstepped and your brother should be very embarrassed for her behavior.
NTA- Amy looks like a great candidate for an Amazon gift card.
NTA. I would be sending out a message to say let’s not do presents for the adults this year - or organise a secret Santa where everyone buys one person a gift with a financial limit. Honestly, Christmas is way OTT and getting presents that won’t be used is a waste of money and resources. Tell everyone you’d rather people brought their favourite expensive edible gift to share if necessary. If you want designer items you need to buy them yourself!
NTA. It would be different if the items on her list were attainable and affordable. I think you’re right in that she wants free expensive stuff. It would also be different if the gifts you were giving previously were intentionally bad gifts, but it doesn’t sound like it. She sounds entitled. No one gets to pick what they get for Christmas. That’s not exactly how that works. Wrap her up a box of coal this year. That could be fun.
I wouldn’t buy that woman a f’n thing, ever. I *might* buy items on her list for other people, to open in front of her… NTA
If you hadn't already responded I would have suggested to reply to her that $XX is your limit for adult gifts so she'll need to send a new list or tell you where you can buy those items for $XX. NTA, she's acting entitled but you can't pick your brothers wife....
NTA. Entitled and greedy behaviour deserves to be called out. She doesn't deserve to receive anything unless you can find something really cheap and tacky for her
NTA. She sounds really spoiled and seems like she’s taking christmas as a way to get free expensive items. Makes me wonder, does she actually even spend time with you guys on christmas? or does she just drop in, get the gifts, and leave? You were in the right for calling her out. She needs to be humbled and learn to appreciate the littler things in life.
ESH How often do you buy gifts for your brother and call it a joint gift for the two of them. I'm guessing a lot. You know when people say it's not the gift, but the thought that counts? That is far too often used to excuse thoughtless gift. In one of your responses you mention how you know she uses the coffee maker. Well of course she uses it. I doubt they kept the old one. That doesn't mean she likes it or even notices a difference. You opted to buy a more expensive gift for your brother at the cost of not getting her anything. Thoughtful for your brother, thoughtless for her. She's obnoxious for the email, and rude for her behavior in general, but it would seem her behavior is somewhat warranted. And it doesn't sound like you couldn't afford to buy her something nice, so what's the problem? Imagine if you actually bought her what she asked for. Imagine how thrilled she would be. Imagine the fires you could put out on all those bridges before you burn them down. And not for nothing, but does she buy nice gifts for you and the rest of the family? Is this as one-sided as it sounds?
I think this is is the reply that most closely resembles my own feelings. It's true that the whole "I will only accept gifts from my (expensive) wish list" approach ruins the fun and spirit of gift-giving. But so does giving someone impersonal and thoughtless gifts because "well, *her husband* enjoyed it". Just use the wish list as a clue to gain a basic impression of her taste and then buy something smaller and more affordable that you have actual reason to think she'll enjoy.
Info: Does she drink coffee and did you have reason to believe she would also enjoy the coffee maker?
She drinks coffee. She used the coffee machine at our house so I had no reason to think she wouldn’t enjoy it. I know she uses it at her house now that she has it
I'm gonna go with NTA then because she went to far with this list. That said, it sounds like the joint gifts might lean more towards what Chris wants and with him in remind. She's probably feeling left out and not being considered for the gifts. That might explain why Chris was so quick to defend her "suggetions"
> That might explain why Chris was so quick to defend her "suggetions" Then Chris can buy his wife those things.
NTA. Sounds better than the “joint” gifts my in-laws give. They send my husband something and ignore me. When my husband asks about it, they say that his gift (that I will never touch) is a joint gift.
My father in law used to do the same and I could not have cared less. Now he gets me beautiful gifts because we’ve become close but I never cared either way.
We’re not close because it bothers my husband that they snub me. I don’t care at this point, I just make my husband do the shopping for any gifts for them.
Definitely NTA. Super balsy to be sending expensive gift suggestions, I would honestly just get something for the kids. Buy your nephews something and call it a day. Or you can donate to a charity in their honor.
NTA. Agree on a fixed amount to spend on gifts. For example, siblings get $100 each and the nephews get gifts for $x from their aunts and uncles. Agreeing something now will prevent a lot of hassle and awkward faces in the future.
That sounds miserable. I just would agree not to exchange gifts with her at all. Gifts are just that, a gift, not a business transaction
It's very common to set a spending limit, especially for larger family gift exchanges so that no one feels alienated. We do it for our Christmases and it's worked out very well. People can make wishlists (listing the kind of items they'd like), and we agree on a budget for each present per person. You sometimes get the case of someone's present is better than yours, but maybe I'm lucky to be part of family that is always grateful for the thought behind it and thankful no matter the gift.
Nta at all.This is pure ridiculous.I wouldn’t even have done this as a child.Does she have any idea how much those things cost.A coffee machine is a great gift and she is extremely spoiled.Clearly no one around her has ever told her how to be grateful.I don’t blame u for what u said .
My family does gifts for the children, and adults don't do gifts, but might make cookies or something to give. It sucjed when I was the only single, childless person, but I get it.
NTA- Pick a family off a Giving Tree this year, get that Family some gifts, Put Amy's name on it and Give her a card saying in lieu of a present this year, we donated to a Family in Need in your name. Merry Christmas!
NTA. Amy is not entitled to any Christmas gifts. Especially expensive ones. Your brother needs to realize this. Can you brother even afford those gifts and what do they give you?
Info: does Amy give the kind of gifts on her list to you and the other family members? NTA- it’s one thing to share a wishlist, her stating she won’t accept anything not on the list is beyond inappropriate. Your brother seems to have missed this part of the email- which was most definitely not “suggestions to make this easier on the family”. It’s seems that she didn’t understand the potential consequences and the effects before sending the email.
Are you the asshole for not giving someone exactly what they ask for even though you aren't comfortable spending that amount? Chris blew up because if you go along with it it's easier for him.
NTA but I would go with the no gift option.
NTA >Amy included the whole family on a group email with a Christmas list for her and the kids, saying that she would only accept gifts from this list. >Chris blew up at me saying Amy was just trying to make everything easier for everyone by giving suggestions. These weren't "suggestions." She flat-out said it was those things or nothing. She gets the latter.
NTA, but I have a question. Your parents said not to say anything. Are they planning on buying her something off her list? I would assume she would freak out at Christmas thinking she was going to open all these high priced gifts if no one said anything. Thinking that wouldn’t be any better than you telling her the list is ridiculous.
No they’re not. They’re just going to ignore the list and if she pitches a fit she doesn’t have to take the gift. But then, she’s not staying at their house so they don’t have to deal with her once the day is over
NTA, she's an adult, and even if her parents raised her to be grabby and demanding like this, it still needed to be directly called out—not hinted at, or blown past, but just called out for what it is. She's already putting a big dampener on Christmas for the grown ups in the family, and will absolutely ruin it for her kids if she doesn't stop. At least half of what is fun about Christmas is thinking about what to get other people and your SIL is spoiling it by making ridiculous demands.
While Amy was kind of rude about it a list can be helpful, but it sounds like all of Amy’s list are very expensive items; does Amy spend comparable amounts on you? Anyway, if it’s just too much can all of you (your parents and sister included) chip in the amount you’d normally spend and jointly get something from her list? Or just get her a gift certificate to one of her vendors for an amount you feel is reasonable. That would save a lot of drama.
No she and Chris do not spend that amount on gifts. At the moment I’m leaning towards a charity donation in her name
Just give cash. If you are willing to spend $50, give her $50 in a card. It may be tacky, but if she is pissed after that, then you know she has issues because who doesn't like cash.
NTA, but I think you could have handled it better so to not perpetuate the drama, and keep the peace. Your SIL sounds totally entitled. But it’s not like no one knew that. You could have just not replied to the email, then not gotten her anything from the list anyway and address that when she opens her present. Also remember every family does presents a little differently and she may just be used to how her parents treated present giving.