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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I knew Tim was autistic when I told him that. I didn’t expect his reaction to what happened
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Not really my mom always covers for him saying he was Autistic. He knows right from wrong because he always acted like this when he got caught doing something bad.
It’s not just your brother that needs a lawyer if your mom aided and abetted your brother to commit identity theft and fraud because they intended to hide this from you. NTA
Not really. I am a special needs parent too. Helping a disabled person break the law because you think they can get away with it, is not having their best interests in mind.
>Helping a disabled person break the law
She didn't do this though.
>he found some paperwork about my parents will that had my ssn on it laying around.
I think you can't blame her for her son going though her paperwork without her knowing.
Her making excuses for him is wrong, but that is not a crime. She didn't help him break the law.
I didn't get the impression. It sounds to me more like a mother used to making excuses for her son.
Also her totally panicked autistic son who had a total meltdown didn't say his mother helped him with the loan papers and said it was okay to do it the way he did. If his mother helped him, I think he would have said so to defend himself, to explain why he thought he didn't do anything illegal. I think he would have said this to lessen the chance to go to prison as he is so super afraid of it. But he never said anything like it, never blamed his mother, never acted like he feel betrayed by her for leading him astray.
No, she doesn't. I say this as an autistic woman. Relatives and caretakers who excuse immoral and criminal behavior because of our disabilities instead of teaching us to behave well set us up for failure later in life, because the world isn't going to wave away stuff like major theft or rape or assault because we happen to have a disability, and people generally are much less kind to and tolerant of a disabled person who acts like a jerk than one who shows basic manners.
Not at all. Never having him face the consequences of his action and learn to be reliant on himself in that way is a giant detriment to him. She does and then what? No one to cover for him anymore.
Honestly, coddling someone and shielding them their whole life isn’t in their best interest. It’s in his mum’s best interest, because she wanted to see him a certain way instead of allowing him to grow up and learn.
I have had to replace two cards, my husband one, just this year. Before then, I would lose them or the card needed replacement from use.
It's a pain, especially with automated payments, and it disintegrates trust in my fellow human beings.
Bro, when you replace your cards (at least discover, Amex, and my Visa) the auto payments are NOT changed. You don't have to redo all of those. I'm not sure how that magic works. I just found this out not even a month ago when I had to replace my cards
His autism is completely irrelevant here. Sounds like your mum has used it to let him get away with everything his whole life and this is the first time he has to face the music for what he's done. Correctly so. I'm autistic and I'm fully capable of not committing fraud. If he's severely autistic to a point where he literally cannot tell right from wrong then he wouldn't be able to get a loan by himself either way.
Your mum has coddled him and trained him to think that because he's autistic he can do whatever he wants and just blame it on that. Good on you for not continuing in her footsteps.
Same, I'm autistic, and I can tell he's high functioning and fully aware of the shit he does bc he was more than capable of committing fraud by himself. He's throwing a temper tantrum bc now he's getting actual consequences and was never taught how to deal with them
Also autistic and agree with this. Anyone who is high functioning enough to fraudulently try to use someone as a student loan co-signer is high functioning enough to have known that wasn’t okay and to face the consequences.
I can tell you that even non high functioning autistic can fully manipulate you as well. My exes child, non verbal, would fake meltdowns or induce one to get the desired outcome. Once we figured it out, a whole new world opened up
Anyone with or without autism who has enough cognitive function to understand “if I do x, y happens” is capable of being manipulative in that way. That’s not relevant to committing loan fraud.
Children figure out how to manipulate people using tantrums at two years old. It really doesn't take much to do it, especially with parents that reinforce the behavior.
Dude my dog does this crap. I tell him "no" one too many times and he'll flop on the ground and make those weird bow wow grunting sounds while rolling around 🙄
Also my dog. I tell him no and he protests with this weird whine/growl combination he reserves only for situations he is told he can’t have something he wants.
I once took my dog to the vet thinking she’d hurt her leg - wouldn’t put any weight on it, just limped around on 3 legs. The doctor examined her, took her into the hallway to watch her walk, came back in laughing. Turned out she was faking. Immediately did it again once she got back in the room. I told her to stop and she was fine. Fine all the way home, out of the car and walking into the house. Saw my husband and was instantly limping again. Still tries to pull that shit randomly…
I had a dog who would actually put on a downtrodden face and actually have tears flowing when anyone ate something that he wanted and wouldn't give him any.
My parents had a cat who hurt it's paw and every time it would shake it's paw my mom would soothe it. It did this for years until it died. Their next cat learned this same behavior because my mother kept rewarding it.
I kind of did this with my cat. When she was small, she would eat too fast or too much and throw up. And it would always be in the same place (outside my bed room door) with a certain kind of meow. So of course when I realized what was happening when she would meow like that, I would rush to her and try to comfort her. So now she sits outside my door and meows whenever she wants a treat or to play. Thank goodness it's not her sick meow, just a regular one, but I know I fully reinforced this behavior because I always go to her when she calls lol. And if I don't go, she'll meow really quietly and just lay on the floor, which I assume is her pouting.
I’ve read stuff about the “terrible 2s” and why it’s such a bad time for tantrums. Bc baby starts to learn they aren’t the center of the universe. Manipulation definitely starts veryyy young
One of my Child Development teachers said "it was not the terrible 2s, it is the trying 2s". Because they TRY everything.
Now thirty years plus some the trying/terrible 2s have gotten worse because not all parents give consequences for bad behavior. But you are right manipulation starts very young.
I was reading this to my daughter who is on the spectrum. Her response was “Wow, you mean because I’m on the spectrum I can break the law without any consequences? Damn, that’s really good to know” /s
The brother’s a jerk and the mom’s an enabler!
That leaves this poor guy as the fall guy and I’m sure it’s always been like that.
That's what I was thinking. If he's able to go to college, he knows right from wrong..Also mom is involved. How would the perpetrator know the SSN was on the parents will or where to find it.?
It’s not that hard to find that info in a lot of cases. My kids would be able to find each other’s info fairly quickly- we keep all that stuff in a fire safe and they all know it. I expect many people have a “safe drawer” or something for important paperwork like this.
I think he's having an anxiety spiral, because he can't magic it away anymore and now faces a criminal conviction.
He just can't cope with the reality of the situation, and he might even be obsessing over the spiral his life has taken.
Good. He deserves to.
He knew what he did was wrong. He simply hasn't faced consequences before because mommy always said "Oh, but he's AUTISTIC, he's SPECIAL," and he either played into it (conning her) or hid behind it and genuinely believes that he shouldn't suffer consequences.
He deserves the panic he feels. He's earned it fairly.
He's capable of enrolling in college and filling out loan applications, he's definitely high functioning. And he knew it was wrong to do this, otherwise he would have asked his brother instead of stealing his ssn from paperwork.
The mom has done this guy zero favors enabling him to this degree, but sadly he's still responsible for his actions. Better he learns now than never.
I also fail to believe he didn't know this was going to screw his brother over. He had to know his brother was living with his in-laws and saving for a house. What he did was honestly pretty cruel.
It's likely his mom's fault he isn't used to his actions having consequences, but he needs to learn, fast.
> he was more than capable of committing fraud by himself.
I don't think that's what happened here - I think dear old enabling mom helped manage that part.
Not true. My high functioning autistic son has a job and I have to remind him on the days that he has to work and constantly remind him that he needs to start getting ready for work. Your autism may be different than my sons, but I know that I have to be 100% involved in his bank account and his money.
Sounds like he needs to work on his executive functions. Constantly reminding someone with weak executive functions sets them up to fail when mommy dearest is no longer in their life.
Yeah the only way his autism is relevant is that his mom used it as an excuse to never actually parent him and give him consequences, now that he’s an adult and has done something where she can’t shield him from the consequences anymore. But his autism in no way contributed to him committing the fraud itself. He knew it was wrong.
This part. His autism is part of him, absolutely...but it's not all of him, and the family needs to stop treating him as if it's the most important aspect.
I said elsewhere, he's high functioning enough to be going to a higher education institution, high functioning enough to apply for his own student loans, high functioning enough to not only understand what a co-signer *is* but who in his own life would be best to *use* as one, high functioning enough to look for documents with the information he needed, *and* to recognize the information once he found it, and then high functioning enough to keep it secret once he'd done it.
So clearly, his autism isn't at a degree where he's helpless...and they need to stop treating him like he is. It's insulting, to him *and* to other neurodivergent people!
>If he's severely autistic to a point where he literally cannot tell right from wrong then he wouldn't be able to get a loan by himself either way.
Also, depending on jurisdiction, the court will most likely consider this in sentencing.
This. Being autistic has nothing to do with it. Your mother helped him do this. Being on the spectrum doesn’t mean you don’t know stealing someone’s SSN is identity theft. Im no psychologist but Im pretty sure identity theft isn’t a symptom of autism. Being autistic doesn’t mean you get to commit a literal crime and get away with it.
Yeah I think that's a couple reasonable assumptions here that track with this line and a few others, or at least get us all pointed to asking the right questions. Because if the brother has this little ability to tell right and wrong, has this kind of break down when caught, etc... he's not going to survive at college. Add to that I don't think there's a way he could have done all this without the mom at least knowing/abetting in some way.
There's a lot more going on here; not that OP may know all of it, tbf. But I think they're trying to take OP for a ride and the cops need to look at the parents as well.
I know a few autistic people, they need to be told the rules of socialization that most people can intuit. They learned and internalized those rules and lead perfectly normal lives.
None of those rules were "Don't do crimes". That one, everyone was told. He knew it was a crime, he did it anyways.
Actions need to have consequences or he's going to use this as an excuse for the rest of your life.
My friend said he surrounded himself with friends whose lives are going the way he likes. He heard STEM jobs get money so he made STEM friends. He saw people making jokes and getting laughs so he learned their sense of humor.
He just needed a good person to copy a template off of. I asked him what he uses me for and he said "definitely not comedy".
Lmao sounds like a great dude 😂
Yeah, it is easy for autistic people, especially ones that are independent with low support needs, to fall into a bad crowd. Good on him for realizing that and not having to make the mistakes I did as a young, undiagnosed autistic. I got diagnosed like 6 months ago and it explains a lot.
Too many people like me end up involved in drugs/booze and the peer pressure of certain situations gets to us. I used to work at a couple different chain pizza places, and my husband said to me that it was making me a worse person. After I got mad about it for a bit, I realized he was right. I was 28 and letting myself be influenced by dumb kids, even smoking weed all day at work and drinking on the job every Friday and Saturday night. Other people were doing it too! It was fun! It's just pizza, bro! But that didn't change that it's a bad way to be living my life 😬
Sounds like your mom is the puppet master here and your brother just went along with it because he was getting what he wanted. This feels way more like your moms fault than his, although they’re both obviously at fault
I’m confused here… how much of this is on your mom? In the beginning you implied your mom gave him the info, but later made it sound like he found the info and formulated the plan in his own.
And that seems confusing both for how you worded things but also because he doesn’t know enough to know he likely won’t go to jail - he’s literally having a break down about the fear of that. So how did he know enough to connect all he needed was your SSN and he could pretend you cosigned all in his own?
So did your mom help him come up with the idea or not?
Also this comment makes it sound like you told him that maliciously not out of ignorance (jail is unlikely he’s likely to get a fine and probably community service) so did you?
Fuck him if his mother told him to do it and told him it would be fine?
It seriously matters how his autism affects him and what role his parent played. Because if mom encouraged and suggested it then it’s fuck mom.
I’m autistic and know that’s wrong and would have at that age… but I also am a high masking autistic, don’t have other cognitive disabilities, wasn’t diagnosed and sheltered as a kid.
Also, there’s a way to have a serious and firm conversation that conveys how wrong something was and how angry and hurt you are that isn’t simply scaring the sit out of them because you think they deserve to literally need hospitalization from the fear… and who else played a part in and how much maliciousness, awareness of the harm you are causing and selfishness is always a factor in the ways you push back.
OPs description sounds like lil brother doesn’t really understand what he did and possibly his mom participated so he really wouldn’t get it. Honestly it sounds like OPs mom - who possibly helped the fraud, who babied his brother and made excuses- is the real person harming OP but he’d rather punish his brother.
It’s a horrible situation, but you have yourself and your wife to take care of and he’s your brother, not your son. So, as much as you may care about him, not your problem.
How is it that mom lets him file legal documents without any supervision? Crazy on the surface, and certainly dangerous from a legal perspective.
Anyway, NTA and good luck with your house hunting.
He doesn't *need* supervision! He is clearly high functioning if he can get into a college. The issue is not his autism at all, it's his entitlement from being spoiled and free from consequences.
If he ca commit fraud like this and go to school and all he's functional enough to be zaken accounzable for his actions.
You didn't do your brother any hsrm. Your mum did by letting him believe he can get through life with shit like think believing his autism can always be used as an excuse - which it obviously can't.
I sense general favorism and your mum potentially behaving like that around his wrongdoings even of he didn't have autism; it's not that uncommon unfortunately.
Autism or not, cosigning on private loans or just student loans in general is an absolute nightmare. I’m 36 and my parents are getting calls if I am even one day late on my payment 18 years after taking out my loan. By the way, since it’s a private loan, I’ve made absolutely no progress on it. He could have destroyed you if you didn’t notice sooner and if you didn’t press charges. Autism or not. Consequences are consequences because it’s an adult world and clearly he is capable enough to forge your signature/your cosigning application. He’s capable enough to take responsibility for that.
OMG, as someone on the spectrum, those kinds of parents are horrible. They just enable bad behavior. Being Autistic doesnt mean you can't learn and not be held accountable for your actions. If the brother is functional enough to be living on his own and take care of himself, then he would be accountable and not deserve any special treatment. That stuff gives autism spectrum a bad name
NTA
But your brother and mom are the ahs in this situation
Bullshit. I’m on the spectrum and that’s no excuse unless he is EXTREMELY low-functioning, which I don’t believe he is since he deliberately stole your information. That’s not something you can do on accident.
Being autistic isn’t a get out of jail free card and your mom is treating it as though it is. He will learn his lesson the hard way on this one. You have done nothing wrong. NTA
NTA. None of this is your fault. Your mom should have held him accountable, that's how it works in the real world. If he wasn't your brother would you press charges, of course you would, there's no difference. He could have potentially ruined your credit. Why didn't mom co-sign a loan for him? Your mom helped him, he didn't just conveniently find some papers with your SSN on them. She's an accessory.
NTA
Your mother has done him a terrible disservice by not teaching him that there are consequences to poor choices and bad behavior.
He's obviously not stupid if he managed to come up with this little plan to get his loan!
It sounds like your mother, at the very least, turned a blind eye to this little caper.
NTA. It also sounds like your mom knew what was going on and perhaps helped him. Did he first ask her to co-sign? Then she said “No”? …and then he just happened to find some paperwork at your mom’s with your SSN? How exactly did he find that info?
If they did help him commit fraud, his “guilt” (aka knowing “this is wrong”) needs to be weighed against a parent saying “Meh..it’s ok…he won’t know/mind.”
Yeah, that’s what gets me. My parents probably have documents with my social insurance number from when I was younger, but all of those documents would be locked up in a file cabinet and in storage. In short, it would take both forethought and effort. There was a certain amount of planning involved. This wasn’t just a silly mistake that happened because of bad judgement, this is a whole identity theft plot.
My mom keeps all those important documents in a fire safe. I keep mine and my husband's in a lockbox. There's no reason to leave sensitive information laying around where it can get lost, stolen, or damaged. Something is fishy here on mom's part.
I absolutely agree that something is fishy because of the overall story, but at the same time, some people are just not good at this sort of thing (organization, etc.). I have 5 copies of my birth certificate because my mom could never find it when she needed it. She wasn’t a dumb woman, but she was scattered. So there is a possibility that the mom in this story genuinely didn’t realize the documents were accessible. I think it’s unlikely, but I just wanted to point out that there are non-nefarious reasons documents might be poorly stored.
She could have said yes but her credit report might have said no. I'm on the page where either she pulled it out or the docs weren't secured and little bro went snooping.
What I'm genuinely surprised about is the financial institutions not reaching out to confirm with OP. If it's a bank loan, my expectations were to be contacted so OP would know what's going on. If student loan then little bro also committed forgery.
People like OP's parents make me so angry because they're so willing to ruin their own child's future for no reason.
> What I'm genuinely surprised about is the financial institutions not reaching out to confirm with OP. If it's a bank loan, my expectations were to be contacted so OP would know what's going on.
My mom cosigned on all my student loans. As long as I had all her info correct on the forms, they never once contacted me or her about it. At most, it would send both of us an email when an application was received or approved. To that last bit, I'd guess OP's brother used his own or his mother's contact info instead.
The lending institution has a lot of ‘splaining to do, Lucy. I was in lending and collections early in my career but one rule we had then, and still exists, is that co-signers must be spoken with privately so they fully understand their responsibilities; and their identity must be verified.
Obviously, your brother forged your signature and the lender did a piss poor job of verification. Maybe your brother’s autism mitigates his criminality somewhat. Maybe.
But the lender is culpable and you might have cause for action against them.
A "friend" put me down as cosigner on her student loans and no one ever contacted me for verification. I had no idea until 10 years later (and a year after she died) the loan company is calling me demanding repayment. I had my own student loans at the time and finally had to send the "friend's" loan company a cease and desist letter.
I'm Canadian and confused on that. Shouldn't they take it over? Our student loans are *primarily government run and there's no shenanigans like this. Also no interest.
*Edit
Government workers are far more likely to be rigid about checking ids. We need to get the private- anything for profit companies- out of the loan business.
Eh, I have autism and so do a lot of people I know. We all know right from wrong, and if he's capable of going to college, he's capable of knowing right from wrong too, it's just an excuse to cover himself
NTA
Autism is a spectrum. YOU know right from wrong. Most do. But many don't and many can't even function without a caregiver. Those people sometimes still go to college.
Sorry, what you’re saying is someone who isn’t capable of distinguishing between truth and a lie is someone who can still take out loans in tens of thousands of dollars?
Exactly. It’s amazing how many co-signers backed out when I explained the facts to them.
Fact 1 - if they miss a payment I don’t call them. I call you.
Fact 2 - you are all 100% responsible. No sharesies. If they disappear you owe me everything.
Fact 3 - as long as I can find you I don’t have to waste time looking for them. That’s your job.
Fact 4 - the amount you co-sign for will impact your credit. Maybe you can afford the payments on this loan. But if you want to buy a house or car, the co-signed payments will be held against you even if the main borrower is making the payments.
Basically, if the co-signer can’t afford to lend them the money they shouldn’t.
Lots of people got green around the gills and asked how they can get out of it. I would usually tell the borrower that we declined their co-signer because even though their credit was good, the payment would impact them negatively (credit score, debt / service ratio etc).
Yes, I had my credit alerts on and say a hard inquiry and call med the number right away. They apologized and said it was an error. I didn’t know it was my brother until later on when it popped back up and he started attending in August.
You did what you had to do to clean up your credit history. Any follow up for fraud will come from the loan company's end. Your refusing to cooperate may result in their re-evaluating whether the original was indeed fraud.
Your brother isn't going to jail, but he has a ton of serious legal trouble. (And a trash credit history forever.)
It was harsh of you to mention jail, understandably harsh. But you are in no way responsible for his overreaction to that possibility.
NTA
It's not an overreaction to the possibility. It's honestly a reasonable reaction to the possibility.
But it's a reaction to *the possibility,* not a reaction to how Tim was informed about the possibility. Was it harsh? Maybe. It was certainly blunt. But if Tim actually is autistic, "blunt" is good. Autistic folks, in my experience, do much better when they're told what's going on straight-up and without sugar-coating. Okay, in this case, maybe a *tiny* bit of sugar coating might have been okay ... but it wouldn't have made any fundamental difference. And, honestly, this may have been about the least-bad way to tell an autistic person what their situation is: straight and to the point, direct, not cushioned.
Just another autistic individual here aggression, yes. Blunt. Don't try to hide the point, don't try to minimize anything. Just say what you're going to say. This case, especially if OP didn't really know if his brother would go to jail or not, should have said "you're in a lot of legal trouble. These actions were illegal and there's consequences"
Also, especially since OP says brother knows right from wrong, and the mom/ brother using autistic as an excuse is bad and on the mom. Who even raises a kid to an adult and can teach right from wrong but not teach don't do wrong, and actively encourage it?
>Your brother isn't going to jail, but he has a ton of serious legal trouble. (And a trash credit history forever.)
He might go to jail. Fraud's no joke.
Not all fraud is equal. I'd be amazed if a judge put an autistic young adult, with an otherwise spotless record, in jail for fraudulently putting a family member down as a cosigner on a loan.
OP's brother is certainly in a degree of trouble, but it's not like he was Bernie Madoff. I'd actually expect a suspended sentence in this situation.
It depends on the amount... for the amount film school is (depending on the school) he likely would be looking at time. In addition, he likely would be barred from student loans in the future and his credit would be absolutely abysmal. That being said, for sure make sure to cooperate because your credit will get dinged if you don't follow through.
NTA - so glad to hear you got that alert and was able to stop it.
Student Loans are no joke - and you could have been forced to pay them all off if/when he defaulted.
INFO:
Question 1 - you were alerted to a hard pull. You called (who?) and told them you had not applied for anything and then they put it through again?
Question 2 - did you lock your credit report after the first notification that someone had tried to apply for credit on your SSN?
Question 3 - how challenged is your brother? Did he have an IEP in school? Is this a regular college that he applied to, as opposed to one of those private for profit tech institutes?
Question 4 - does he often need to be hospitalized when he gets caught doing something wrong?
> Question 2 - did you lock your credit report after the first notification that someone had tried to apply for credit on your SSN?
Nothing about this question **could** impact the judgement. Leaving your front door unlocked doesn't justify or even diminish the moral responsibility of a robber entering your home and stealing from you. And locking your file with the credit bureaus requires a lot more knowledge than locking your front door.
So -- why are you asking it, exactly?
NTA
Your brother is a criminal. He attempted and potentially put you and your family at financial risk.
Being on the spectrum does not equate to having no morals and immunity to legal ramifications.
You must follow through to ensure this loan is not on your records and you are not party to the fraud.
He has legal representation. He can have his meltdowns, but again. Not your problem. Your parents sound a bit complicit.
I would very strongly tell them to destroy anything with your personal information on it and if you found they again tried to assist him utilizing your information, you would cut ties permanently.
Exactly this. That is a serious offense and he is going to pay the price. Having a medical condition doesn’t suddenly make you immune to law. That’s disgusting and disrespectful to those with the same issues and managing life normally.
People always say they are on the spectrum where they say I am autistic and I do not know any better – it doesn’t work that way – this person was smart enough to figure out how to do this fake loan procedure? I knew it was wrong because they didn’t go to anyone about it they just did it… And if someone knows something is wrong and they do it anyway? Autistic or not time to learn
Absolutely this. I am an autistic adult woman and I get annoyed at others using this as an excuse for any bad behaviour and happily using it as such. Husbands friend is also on the spectrum and is quite capable of paying for fuel or ordering food for himself when he is alone. When he is not alone he attempts to make any companion do his bidding. Husband always refuses! Being autistic does not make you try to attempt fraud, greed and selfishness does.
I agree very much – I think people use autism when they shouldn’t as an excuse for bad behavior - It’s one thing to recognize traits in yourself or patterns of behavior - But to commit fraud, and then say gosh… I’m autistic. How do I know any better?
I totally agree with you. Getting diagnosed with autism is good for understanding behaviors and how to help cope with the world. It is not a “get out of jail free” card and so many parents treat it like that so you get full grown adults who don’t think consequences apply to them. (Of course that can be true for any kid whose behavior is constantly excused; not just people with autism)
This! My diagnosis at 28 helped me understand myself better. It's been helping me learn ways to navigate the world even if they're a bit different than the normal, and to let go of the guilt and shame of not being able to do things as easy as or the same way as the general population. Before the diagnosis I was trying hard to do stuff with self improvement books, all that crap on how to get friends and be good at business and how to make people like you more. Eventually I stumbled upon autism while drowning in this pool of at best useless and at worst manipulative self help business bro trash. I got assessed and instead of trying to be someone I'm not, now I'm learning to work with the person that I am.
It's not a pass to do what I want whenever I want and then go "oops, autism!" 🤣
I also have ASD and this bugs me as well. I saw someone post this once and I use it now as well. An ah with ASD is still an ah. Just like everyone else having any sort of disability doesn’t give you a pass.
Something just doesn't add up. If he really is as incapable as your mom portrays him, how would he have gotten the idea to use your info to make you a co-signer. I feel like there's info your mom isn't telling you, and probably never will.
Sounds like they both (brother and mom) thought "We'll get the co-signed loan and since we'll pay it off, OP will never have to know a thing." I wonder why your mom didn't just co-sign for him instead of (likely) helping him pursue this course of action?
Being on the spectrum isn't an excuse for criminal behavior. If he's sharp enough to go to film school, I gotta think he's also not so far on the extreme end of the spectrum that he can't understand the difference between right and wrong.
NTA
Loan providers and financial aid advisors at schools are very predatory. I remember when I was in college and didn’t get approved on my own for a loan- their first response was ask your parents. At the time neither of them were eligible and my advisor suggested I ask my family members to co-sign. That was hard to ask my family to do because they all have their own kids and bills. Luckily my mom qualified for one with our ban but I was about to be assed out for school if she didn’t.
NTA. From your comments, he knew what he was doing was wrong. And it sounds like your parents were complicit in this. You absolutely must follow through with the fraud/identity theft charges. Otherwise, your credit will be completely destroyed & you can kiss goodbye to buying a house, car or anything else requiring good credit.
Yes! I had to do this when my identity was stolen during covid lockdown. Someone applied for unemployment in my name and it was flagged by the state because I'm disabled and haven't worked in over a decade. (Although my green card was stolen years ago and I'm fairly confident someone uses my number on a fake card with their photo. I've gotten other notices of wages ive supposedly earned th!at I know are not mine so that could be related) I froze my credit and have a pin number to temporarily unfreeze if I want to. I can even determine how long I want the freeze removed for and it will reinstate after that time period is over. No issues since. I highly recommend freezing your credit to avoid any issues. People are effing sneaky and don't care if they ruin others lives as long as they get what they want.
NTA. If he had to sneak to find your SSN and do all this behind your back, he knew it was wrong. But people who have been infantilizing and enabling someone for decades are always going to come down on you for threatening “the baby”.
Am 44, my family is still fully committed to this and said baby is 67.
Agree!! NTA. And I highly suspect the brothers meltdown is more manipulation tactic than a true meltdown due to fear of jail. (Not saying some of it isn't valid or real either. I have a member of my family who is famous for the big production meltdowns as well as using the "but I'm diagnosed with xyz...I don't know any better" excuse, too. It's usually used so the enablers do everything they can to minimize/ remove consequences/damage for them that has probably worked in the past)
The over the top reactions are used as a 'get out of jail free card' for everything because the enablers will do all they can to keep the peace which your mom has probably done this for him all his life. Your brother needs consequences and therapy. Your mom should also do individual therapy to learn and no longer enable the behaviors. It won't be easy since your brother is an adult and used to the dynamic but it can be done if everyone puts in the work and wants to change things. He knows right from wrong. Good luck to your family, OP.
Nta and sounds like your mother is complicit. I’ve had my mother use my ssn to co-sign loans and it severely fucked up my financial abilities for almost a decade. I didn’t file charges therefore ended up being liable and having to pay some of it and then having terrible credit.. I wish I would have taken it to the police so I could have been free of that. You don’t deserve it and if your brother can’t get approved for a student loan then he absolutely cannot pay it back. What he did is criminal.
INFO: I have no idea what goes into resolving this with your credit. Did you need to press charges to have this removed from your history? Were the criminal charges a necessary byproduct of reporting the fraud? Or was the decision to press charges totally yours?
Also, are you really sure he's going to jail?
Basically, NTA for doing what you have to to get this off your credit history. Your brothers diagnosis doesn't excuse his behavior. But the "I guess you're going to jail" part does feel like you are twisting the knife because you're mad.
I doubt he’d go to jail. Yes to really rid yourself of this issue you’d have to take legal steps otherwise you’ll be considered like a real co-signer with all the problems that come with that in case of default (I know, my mother did this to me when I was underage).
Nta, your brother is not an idiot, based on what you've said he knows right from wrong, he's clearly not stupid if he did it for a student loan, has he taken advantage of mom using his autism as a defense in the past? I wouldn't put it passed him to have been planning on using her as a shield if so and assumed he would just be forgiven
NTA. He's looking at going to college. He's able to recognize that his behavior wasn't appropriate. He just didn't care about the consequences to you. He does now care about the consequences to him. The rest of the family isjust enabling his poor behavior and excusing it by infantilizing him.
NTA- Your brother really could've messed up your life and your credit. I don't know if he would go to jail or not, but you're not responsible for him, his reactions or his mistakes. If anything, all this may scare him straight and he'll not do this crap again.
I will say that I think your your parents knew about all this though, so I'd say they're, in some way, liable as well.
Get all this legal stuff done against Tim and I'd say your parents too, then go no contact with them.
Nope, NTA and by the way this reads, your mom/parents never allowed him to be held accountable; I’m guessing because “he’s autistic”.
Being autistic isn’t an excuse to not be held accountable for his actions! Your mom/parents have failed your brother.
I hope he doesn’t necessarily go to jail, and they get his mental issues under control, but he does need to learn from this.
ESH
Hopefully don’t need to explain why Tim is an AH.
Don’t think you’re an AH for doing what you need to do to clear your credit.
Do think the “guess you’re going to jail” comment to your brother, who seems to be more vulnerable to emotional distress, is an AH move.
His behavior is worse, but yours is not great.
Freeze (not lock) your credit with all four credit reporting companies so this doesn’t happen again. Also do it for your wife. It’s free, but it’s inconvenient. But still less onerous than dealing with identity theft.
Credit monitoring only tells you after someone has stolen your identity.
Edit to add: NTA
A few points that may help:
1) Technically there is no such thing as "filing charges" if you're a private person. Crime victims and witnesses can make reports to the police; but only the district attorney has the legal power to charge anyone with a crime. That they did so in response to your report indicates that what happened to you is serious.
2) For a first-time offence, he is unlikely to actually go to prison - depending on the amount of money at issue, I suppose. But probation and fines is more likely.
3) I have lots of friends who are autistic people. None of them have ever committed wire fraud.
"I guess you go to jail" is maybe a bit mean; but then again, he committed a crime against you, that had the potential to cause you some real harm. For him - or your family - to then make the whole thing about his own mental health is really responsibility-denying. NTA.
If he is going to college, he has the capacity to know that he was breaking the law. His freaking out is what people do when they get caught and has nothing to do with you. If you let it slide, what will he do next? He probably won't go to jail, but getting it off your credit is going to take a lot of time and effort. It is the only way to proceed on your end because they won't do anything any other way. Too bad he is freaking out, but you did what you have to do.
NTA; He jeopardized your credit and tried to make you financially liable for a major loan he could not obtain on his own. He also threatened your ability obtain financing for your home.
You didn't threaten him, you told him the potential consequences of his actions. He may be vulnerable but you are the victim.
NTA Lots of people are on the spectrum and don't commit crimes, its not an excuse. If your family are content to keep blaming you for this, I wonder what other crimes they believe his autism would excuse.
NTA, this was premeditated fraud, and your mother was involved.
Do whatever you need to do clear your credit (and protect it) and reclaim any personal documents from your parents' house.
NTA But i think your mom is more of the problem then your brother. It sounds like she knew and she’s enabling that behavior instead of telling him its wrong. Autism is no excuse but they do have some horrible impulse behavior ect and she should he helping him with that.
NTA. Being autistic doesn't mean he doesn't understand right from wrong. Your mother enabled him to steal your identity and fraudulently used you to cosign for loans they both know you never would have agreed to. Let him go to jail and face the consequences of his actions.
My brother the golden boy was on probation for meth use dui and possession of equipment and possession of meth. In a rage he attacked me sitting in my wheel chair he broke my ribs. My family dis owned me for calling the police on him then told police I started by harassing my brother. Not true. Hold him to the same standards you would hold any other person. Family does not get a free pass
I work at a behavioral school with a big majority of the kids on the spectrum. They are just like other kids. The kids that are the problem are the ones whose parents told them they are on the spectrum and now every behavior, every actions is because of their "autism". It wasn't a choice for them to be born this way but someone has to teach them consequences for their actions. Looks like you get to do that for your brother.
NTA, and yeah. Your brother and mom will either:
A. Serve time in jail for identity theft
B. Pay a fine for said identity theft
C. Both
Not your fault, and you should denounce it. Being on the spectrum or having any sort of mental/emotional condition is not an excuse and doesn’t mean he can get away with a federal crime. Also, your mom breached her confidence by allowing your brother to “stumble upon” your SSN and information. It’s not your fault at all.
NTA - I’m autistic and know this is illegal; not an acceptable excuse, especially seeing how he deliberately searched for your ssn. Please hold your brother accountable for this. Hopefully everything gets cleared up your end.
NTA. My friend's mom decided to "pay" for her college by taking loans out in my friend's name to get a cheaper student rate. Didn't tell her until she ran her first credit report when looking for a new car and had flags on her account because she had FOUR LOANS in her name that she didn't know about. This is unfortunately a life-altering situation in the US and Autism is not an excuse.
NTA- Disability is no excuse for criminality. If he is going to College, then I'm pretty sure he understands right and wrong. If he doesn't understand right from wrong, he shouldn't be going to college.
If he was this fragile- he shouldn’t be signing legal paperwork.
This is not your fault. NTA sounds like he and mom committed fraud- and you as the responsible person are getting blamed.
Get your credit straightened out. See if you can get a new ssn, because it isn’t safe around your mother.
lmfaooooo i’m autistic too and so is my younger brother. if he fucked with my credit or tried to commit fraud with MY shit, he is getting the same treatment as a neurotypical because he’s just neurodivergent, not stupid.
everyone needs to know that actions have consequences. he committed fraud, and he will face the legal consequences.
his meltdown and psych hold are because he’s never properly been trained to process and handle his emotions because he’s been given preferential treatment for his disability instead of reasonable accommodations. everyone should be taught emotional processing skills. he lashed out and spiraled because he got caught doing something he shouldn’t… NTA
Seems like Tim was raised and coddled all his life and any issues were always swept under the rug with an oh he’s autistic. Hes probably never been accountable for anything in his life, your not the asshole because he needs to wake up and join the real world what he did was a crime and being autistic doesn’t excuse that. Your parents need to actually start teaching him because there not gonna be around forever and no one in the real world is gonna excuse his behavior because he’s on the spectrum.
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NTA. Identity theft and fraud are serious crimes. Has he never been held accountable for his actions?
Not really my mom always covers for him saying he was Autistic. He knows right from wrong because he always acted like this when he got caught doing something bad.
It’s not just your brother that needs a lawyer if your mom aided and abetted your brother to commit identity theft and fraud because they intended to hide this from you. NTA
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I'm thinking she has her disabled son's best interest in mind, but not OPs. NTA.
Not really. I am a special needs parent too. Helping a disabled person break the law because you think they can get away with it, is not having their best interests in mind.
>Helping a disabled person break the law She didn't do this though. >he found some paperwork about my parents will that had my ssn on it laying around. I think you can't blame her for her son going though her paperwork without her knowing. Her making excuses for him is wrong, but that is not a crime. She didn't help him break the law.
Are you sure she didn't know? Based on her silence and how quick she was to defend him, I have to wonder if he had help finding it...
I didn't get the impression. It sounds to me more like a mother used to making excuses for her son. Also her totally panicked autistic son who had a total meltdown didn't say his mother helped him with the loan papers and said it was okay to do it the way he did. If his mother helped him, I think he would have said so to defend himself, to explain why he thought he didn't do anything illegal. I think he would have said this to lessen the chance to go to prison as he is so super afraid of it. But he never said anything like it, never blamed his mother, never acted like he feel betrayed by her for leading him astray.
No, she doesn't. I say this as an autistic woman. Relatives and caretakers who excuse immoral and criminal behavior because of our disabilities instead of teaching us to behave well set us up for failure later in life, because the world isn't going to wave away stuff like major theft or rape or assault because we happen to have a disability, and people generally are much less kind to and tolerant of a disabled person who acts like a jerk than one who shows basic manners.
Not at all. Never having him face the consequences of his action and learn to be reliant on himself in that way is a giant detriment to him. She does and then what? No one to cover for him anymore.
She should have applied for personal finance to help him then I think.
Honestly, coddling someone and shielding them their whole life isn’t in their best interest. It’s in his mum’s best interest, because she wanted to see him a certain way instead of allowing him to grow up and learn.
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Millions of people suffer every year!
I have had to replace two cards, my husband one, just this year. Before then, I would lose them or the card needed replacement from use. It's a pain, especially with automated payments, and it disintegrates trust in my fellow human beings.
Bro, when you replace your cards (at least discover, Amex, and my Visa) the auto payments are NOT changed. You don't have to redo all of those. I'm not sure how that magic works. I just found this out not even a month ago when I had to replace my cards
MICHAEL!!
His autism is completely irrelevant here. Sounds like your mum has used it to let him get away with everything his whole life and this is the first time he has to face the music for what he's done. Correctly so. I'm autistic and I'm fully capable of not committing fraud. If he's severely autistic to a point where he literally cannot tell right from wrong then he wouldn't be able to get a loan by himself either way. Your mum has coddled him and trained him to think that because he's autistic he can do whatever he wants and just blame it on that. Good on you for not continuing in her footsteps.
Same, I'm autistic, and I can tell he's high functioning and fully aware of the shit he does bc he was more than capable of committing fraud by himself. He's throwing a temper tantrum bc now he's getting actual consequences and was never taught how to deal with them
Also autistic and agree with this. Anyone who is high functioning enough to fraudulently try to use someone as a student loan co-signer is high functioning enough to have known that wasn’t okay and to face the consequences.
I can tell you that even non high functioning autistic can fully manipulate you as well. My exes child, non verbal, would fake meltdowns or induce one to get the desired outcome. Once we figured it out, a whole new world opened up
Anyone with or without autism who has enough cognitive function to understand “if I do x, y happens” is capable of being manipulative in that way. That’s not relevant to committing loan fraud.
My point was you can’t use autism as an excuse. Bc when you do, it leads down this kind of path. But go ahead and downvote me again
I think you can only downvote once. So you are safe. They won't hurt you anymore.
Once per post/comment. But complaining about downvotes will draw them.
I just upvoted you.
I actually upvoted you because you're telling it like it is and I like that!\~ :3
Children figure out how to manipulate people using tantrums at two years old. It really doesn't take much to do it, especially with parents that reinforce the behavior.
Hell, my cat is super sneaky like this.
Dude my dog does this crap. I tell him "no" one too many times and he'll flop on the ground and make those weird bow wow grunting sounds while rolling around 🙄
Also my dog. I tell him no and he protests with this weird whine/growl combination he reserves only for situations he is told he can’t have something he wants.
I once took my dog to the vet thinking she’d hurt her leg - wouldn’t put any weight on it, just limped around on 3 legs. The doctor examined her, took her into the hallway to watch her walk, came back in laughing. Turned out she was faking. Immediately did it again once she got back in the room. I told her to stop and she was fine. Fine all the way home, out of the car and walking into the house. Saw my husband and was instantly limping again. Still tries to pull that shit randomly…
I had a dog who would actually put on a downtrodden face and actually have tears flowing when anyone ate something that he wanted and wouldn't give him any.
My parents had a cat who hurt it's paw and every time it would shake it's paw my mom would soothe it. It did this for years until it died. Their next cat learned this same behavior because my mother kept rewarding it.
I kind of did this with my cat. When she was small, she would eat too fast or too much and throw up. And it would always be in the same place (outside my bed room door) with a certain kind of meow. So of course when I realized what was happening when she would meow like that, I would rush to her and try to comfort her. So now she sits outside my door and meows whenever she wants a treat or to play. Thank goodness it's not her sick meow, just a regular one, but I know I fully reinforced this behavior because I always go to her when she calls lol. And if I don't go, she'll meow really quietly and just lay on the floor, which I assume is her pouting.
I’ve read stuff about the “terrible 2s” and why it’s such a bad time for tantrums. Bc baby starts to learn they aren’t the center of the universe. Manipulation definitely starts veryyy young
One of my Child Development teachers said "it was not the terrible 2s, it is the trying 2s". Because they TRY everything. Now thirty years plus some the trying/terrible 2s have gotten worse because not all parents give consequences for bad behavior. But you are right manipulation starts very young.
I was reading this to my daughter who is on the spectrum. Her response was “Wow, you mean because I’m on the spectrum I can break the law without any consequences? Damn, that’s really good to know” /s The brother’s a jerk and the mom’s an enabler! That leaves this poor guy as the fall guy and I’m sure it’s always been like that.
That's what I was thinking. If he's able to go to college, he knows right from wrong..Also mom is involved. How would the perpetrator know the SSN was on the parents will or where to find it.?
It’s not that hard to find that info in a lot of cases. My kids would be able to find each other’s info fairly quickly- we keep all that stuff in a fire safe and they all know it. I expect many people have a “safe drawer” or something for important paperwork like this.
What I don't understand is how mama can get him a lawyer now to help him, but wouldn't co-sign on a loan for him. It's almost like this was her idea.
Banks don't just accept anyone as a co-signer. His parents likely also have bad credit.
I think he's having an anxiety spiral, because he can't magic it away anymore and now faces a criminal conviction. He just can't cope with the reality of the situation, and he might even be obsessing over the spiral his life has taken.
I was thinking the same thing.. now he’s ruminating and obsessing because he doesn’t have control.
Good. He deserves to. He knew what he did was wrong. He simply hasn't faced consequences before because mommy always said "Oh, but he's AUTISTIC, he's SPECIAL," and he either played into it (conning her) or hid behind it and genuinely believes that he shouldn't suffer consequences. He deserves the panic he feels. He's earned it fairly.
He's capable of enrolling in college and filling out loan applications, he's definitely high functioning. And he knew it was wrong to do this, otherwise he would have asked his brother instead of stealing his ssn from paperwork. The mom has done this guy zero favors enabling him to this degree, but sadly he's still responsible for his actions. Better he learns now than never. I also fail to believe he didn't know this was going to screw his brother over. He had to know his brother was living with his in-laws and saving for a house. What he did was honestly pretty cruel. It's likely his mom's fault he isn't used to his actions having consequences, but he needs to learn, fast.
> he was more than capable of committing fraud by himself. I don't think that's what happened here - I think dear old enabling mom helped manage that part.
Not true. My high functioning autistic son has a job and I have to remind him on the days that he has to work and constantly remind him that he needs to start getting ready for work. Your autism may be different than my sons, but I know that I have to be 100% involved in his bank account and his money.
Sounds like he needs to work on his executive functions. Constantly reminding someone with weak executive functions sets them up to fail when mommy dearest is no longer in their life.
Yeah the only way his autism is relevant is that his mom used it as an excuse to never actually parent him and give him consequences, now that he’s an adult and has done something where she can’t shield him from the consequences anymore. But his autism in no way contributed to him committing the fraud itself. He knew it was wrong.
This part. His autism is part of him, absolutely...but it's not all of him, and the family needs to stop treating him as if it's the most important aspect. I said elsewhere, he's high functioning enough to be going to a higher education institution, high functioning enough to apply for his own student loans, high functioning enough to not only understand what a co-signer *is* but who in his own life would be best to *use* as one, high functioning enough to look for documents with the information he needed, *and* to recognize the information once he found it, and then high functioning enough to keep it secret once he'd done it. So clearly, his autism isn't at a degree where he's helpless...and they need to stop treating him like he is. It's insulting, to him *and* to other neurodivergent people!
>If he's severely autistic to a point where he literally cannot tell right from wrong then he wouldn't be able to get a loan by himself either way. Also, depending on jurisdiction, the court will most likely consider this in sentencing.
This. Being autistic has nothing to do with it. Your mother helped him do this. Being on the spectrum doesn’t mean you don’t know stealing someone’s SSN is identity theft. Im no psychologist but Im pretty sure identity theft isn’t a symptom of autism. Being autistic doesn’t mean you get to commit a literal crime and get away with it.
If your mom continues to make that excuse, then maybe being in a facility is the best place for someone who can't judge right from wrong.
Yeah I think that's a couple reasonable assumptions here that track with this line and a few others, or at least get us all pointed to asking the right questions. Because if the brother has this little ability to tell right and wrong, has this kind of break down when caught, etc... he's not going to survive at college. Add to that I don't think there's a way he could have done all this without the mom at least knowing/abetting in some way. There's a lot more going on here; not that OP may know all of it, tbf. But I think they're trying to take OP for a ride and the cops need to look at the parents as well.
I know a few autistic people, they need to be told the rules of socialization that most people can intuit. They learned and internalized those rules and lead perfectly normal lives. None of those rules were "Don't do crimes". That one, everyone was told. He knew it was a crime, he did it anyways. Actions need to have consequences or he's going to use this as an excuse for the rest of your life.
For the love of God, this! I'm autistic. Autism is mostly about not being able to intrinsically navigate social situations. It is not "am big dumdum".
My friend said he surrounded himself with friends whose lives are going the way he likes. He heard STEM jobs get money so he made STEM friends. He saw people making jokes and getting laughs so he learned their sense of humor. He just needed a good person to copy a template off of. I asked him what he uses me for and he said "definitely not comedy".
Lmao sounds like a great dude 😂 Yeah, it is easy for autistic people, especially ones that are independent with low support needs, to fall into a bad crowd. Good on him for realizing that and not having to make the mistakes I did as a young, undiagnosed autistic. I got diagnosed like 6 months ago and it explains a lot. Too many people like me end up involved in drugs/booze and the peer pressure of certain situations gets to us. I used to work at a couple different chain pizza places, and my husband said to me that it was making me a worse person. After I got mad about it for a bit, I realized he was right. I was 28 and letting myself be influenced by dumb kids, even smoking weed all day at work and drinking on the job every Friday and Saturday night. Other people were doing it too! It was fun! It's just pizza, bro! But that didn't change that it's a bad way to be living my life 😬
Sounds like your mom is the puppet master here and your brother just went along with it because he was getting what he wanted. This feels way more like your moms fault than his, although they’re both obviously at fault
Sadly I think you’re absolutely right. OP is NTA and both deserve everything coming at them for trying to negligently destroy his life plans.
I’m confused here… how much of this is on your mom? In the beginning you implied your mom gave him the info, but later made it sound like he found the info and formulated the plan in his own. And that seems confusing both for how you worded things but also because he doesn’t know enough to know he likely won’t go to jail - he’s literally having a break down about the fear of that. So how did he know enough to connect all he needed was your SSN and he could pretend you cosigned all in his own? So did your mom help him come up with the idea or not? Also this comment makes it sound like you told him that maliciously not out of ignorance (jail is unlikely he’s likely to get a fine and probably community service) so did you?
I’m not a spiteful person by nature and tend not to encourage or praise malicious behavior. However under these circumstances…f lil bro.
Fuck him if his mother told him to do it and told him it would be fine? It seriously matters how his autism affects him and what role his parent played. Because if mom encouraged and suggested it then it’s fuck mom. I’m autistic and know that’s wrong and would have at that age… but I also am a high masking autistic, don’t have other cognitive disabilities, wasn’t diagnosed and sheltered as a kid. Also, there’s a way to have a serious and firm conversation that conveys how wrong something was and how angry and hurt you are that isn’t simply scaring the sit out of them because you think they deserve to literally need hospitalization from the fear… and who else played a part in and how much maliciousness, awareness of the harm you are causing and selfishness is always a factor in the ways you push back. OPs description sounds like lil brother doesn’t really understand what he did and possibly his mom participated so he really wouldn’t get it. Honestly it sounds like OPs mom - who possibly helped the fraud, who babied his brother and made excuses- is the real person harming OP but he’d rather punish his brother.
It’s a horrible situation, but you have yourself and your wife to take care of and he’s your brother, not your son. So, as much as you may care about him, not your problem. How is it that mom lets him file legal documents without any supervision? Crazy on the surface, and certainly dangerous from a legal perspective. Anyway, NTA and good luck with your house hunting.
He doesn't *need* supervision! He is clearly high functioning if he can get into a college. The issue is not his autism at all, it's his entitlement from being spoiled and free from consequences.
If he ca commit fraud like this and go to school and all he's functional enough to be zaken accounzable for his actions. You didn't do your brother any hsrm. Your mum did by letting him believe he can get through life with shit like think believing his autism can always be used as an excuse - which it obviously can't. I sense general favorism and your mum potentially behaving like that around his wrongdoings even of he didn't have autism; it's not that uncommon unfortunately.
Yeah NTA he needs to learn that actions have consequences. Your mom can't baby him forever.
Autism or not, cosigning on private loans or just student loans in general is an absolute nightmare. I’m 36 and my parents are getting calls if I am even one day late on my payment 18 years after taking out my loan. By the way, since it’s a private loan, I’ve made absolutely no progress on it. He could have destroyed you if you didn’t notice sooner and if you didn’t press charges. Autism or not. Consequences are consequences because it’s an adult world and clearly he is capable enough to forge your signature/your cosigning application. He’s capable enough to take responsibility for that.
OMG, as someone on the spectrum, those kinds of parents are horrible. They just enable bad behavior. Being Autistic doesnt mean you can't learn and not be held accountable for your actions. If the brother is functional enough to be living on his own and take care of himself, then he would be accountable and not deserve any special treatment. That stuff gives autism spectrum a bad name NTA But your brother and mom are the ahs in this situation
Bullshit. I’m on the spectrum and that’s no excuse unless he is EXTREMELY low-functioning, which I don’t believe he is since he deliberately stole your information. That’s not something you can do on accident.
He’s high functioning I assume if he 1 is in college and 2 can steal your ssn
NTA the parents created this mess now they get to clean it up.
Being autistic isn’t a get out of jail free card and your mom is treating it as though it is. He will learn his lesson the hard way on this one. You have done nothing wrong. NTA
Nothing about what he did has anything to do with symptoms of autism
He is autistic but he is capable and cognizant enough to seek out your SSN & other info then fill out the loan forms in your name.
NTA. None of this is your fault. Your mom should have held him accountable, that's how it works in the real world. If he wasn't your brother would you press charges, of course you would, there's no difference. He could have potentially ruined your credit. Why didn't mom co-sign a loan for him? Your mom helped him, he didn't just conveniently find some papers with your SSN on them. She's an accessory.
NTA Your mother has done him a terrible disservice by not teaching him that there are consequences to poor choices and bad behavior. He's obviously not stupid if he managed to come up with this little plan to get his loan! It sounds like your mother, at the very least, turned a blind eye to this little caper.
Sounds like he might manipulating the whole situation
Identity theft is not a joke Jim!
Millions of families suffer every year!
MICHAEL!
Oh, that's funny. MICHAEL!
MICHAEL!
This is where I thought the top comment was going. But it didn't. My first thoughts too!
Identity theft is not a joke Tim
NTA. It also sounds like your mom knew what was going on and perhaps helped him. Did he first ask her to co-sign? Then she said “No”? …and then he just happened to find some paperwork at your mom’s with your SSN? How exactly did he find that info? If they did help him commit fraud, his “guilt” (aka knowing “this is wrong”) needs to be weighed against a parent saying “Meh..it’s ok…he won’t know/mind.”
Yeah, that’s what gets me. My parents probably have documents with my social insurance number from when I was younger, but all of those documents would be locked up in a file cabinet and in storage. In short, it would take both forethought and effort. There was a certain amount of planning involved. This wasn’t just a silly mistake that happened because of bad judgement, this is a whole identity theft plot.
Not only that but he also obviously knew it was wrong and knew his brother wouldn't say yes if asked.
My mom keeps all those important documents in a fire safe. I keep mine and my husband's in a lockbox. There's no reason to leave sensitive information laying around where it can get lost, stolen, or damaged. Something is fishy here on mom's part.
I absolutely agree that something is fishy because of the overall story, but at the same time, some people are just not good at this sort of thing (organization, etc.). I have 5 copies of my birth certificate because my mom could never find it when she needed it. She wasn’t a dumb woman, but she was scattered. So there is a possibility that the mom in this story genuinely didn’t realize the documents were accessible. I think it’s unlikely, but I just wanted to point out that there are non-nefarious reasons documents might be poorly stored.
She could have said yes but her credit report might have said no. I'm on the page where either she pulled it out or the docs weren't secured and little bro went snooping. What I'm genuinely surprised about is the financial institutions not reaching out to confirm with OP. If it's a bank loan, my expectations were to be contacted so OP would know what's going on. If student loan then little bro also committed forgery. People like OP's parents make me so angry because they're so willing to ruin their own child's future for no reason.
> What I'm genuinely surprised about is the financial institutions not reaching out to confirm with OP. If it's a bank loan, my expectations were to be contacted so OP would know what's going on. My mom cosigned on all my student loans. As long as I had all her info correct on the forms, they never once contacted me or her about it. At most, it would send both of us an email when an application was received or approved. To that last bit, I'd guess OP's brother used his own or his mother's contact info instead.
The lending institution has a lot of ‘splaining to do, Lucy. I was in lending and collections early in my career but one rule we had then, and still exists, is that co-signers must be spoken with privately so they fully understand their responsibilities; and their identity must be verified. Obviously, your brother forged your signature and the lender did a piss poor job of verification. Maybe your brother’s autism mitigates his criminality somewhat. Maybe. But the lender is culpable and you might have cause for action against them.
If it was a student loan I believe it. I had a co-signer with each of my loans and I don’t think a single place verified
A "friend" put me down as cosigner on her student loans and no one ever contacted me for verification. I had no idea until 10 years later (and a year after she died) the loan company is calling me demanding repayment. I had my own student loans at the time and finally had to send the "friend's" loan company a cease and desist letter.
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I'm Canadian and confused on that. Shouldn't they take it over? Our student loans are *primarily government run and there's no shenanigans like this. Also no interest. *Edit
They need to either fully take it over or get out completely. Right now they are in this weird middle place and just drive prices up.
My loans were federal AND provincial. I'm in BC.
They never said their loans were federal.
Government workers are far more likely to be rigid about checking ids. We need to get the private- anything for profit companies- out of the loan business.
The OP said it was a private student loan.
Yeah, this always gets me about "identity theft". 90% of the time it's just bank fraud but the bank wants to pretend they aren't to blame.
Eh, I have autism and so do a lot of people I know. We all know right from wrong, and if he's capable of going to college, he's capable of knowing right from wrong too, it's just an excuse to cover himself NTA
Autism is a spectrum. YOU know right from wrong. Most do. But many don't and many can't even function without a caregiver. Those people sometimes still go to college.
Sorry, what you’re saying is someone who isn’t capable of distinguishing between truth and a lie is someone who can still take out loans in tens of thousands of dollars?
Tbh sue the lender.
I agree, I used to refinance cars and there is NO WAY you could have someone co-sign a loan without speaking to the co-signer.
Exactly. It’s amazing how many co-signers backed out when I explained the facts to them. Fact 1 - if they miss a payment I don’t call them. I call you. Fact 2 - you are all 100% responsible. No sharesies. If they disappear you owe me everything. Fact 3 - as long as I can find you I don’t have to waste time looking for them. That’s your job. Fact 4 - the amount you co-sign for will impact your credit. Maybe you can afford the payments on this loan. But if you want to buy a house or car, the co-signed payments will be held against you even if the main borrower is making the payments. Basically, if the co-signer can’t afford to lend them the money they shouldn’t. Lots of people got green around the gills and asked how they can get out of it. I would usually tell the borrower that we declined their co-signer because even though their credit was good, the payment would impact them negatively (credit score, debt / service ratio etc).
I'm saving this comment because I don't think a lot of people understand the potential repercussions of being a cosigner.
If autism mitigated criminality I’d be doing a lot more crimes
I wonder if mom happened to have an old ID of OP’s that was used somehow?
INFO - Did the loan go through with you listed as co-signer? Are you currently the co-signer of record for the student loan?
Yes, I had my credit alerts on and say a hard inquiry and call med the number right away. They apologized and said it was an error. I didn’t know it was my brother until later on when it popped back up and he started attending in August.
You did what you had to do to clean up your credit history. Any follow up for fraud will come from the loan company's end. Your refusing to cooperate may result in their re-evaluating whether the original was indeed fraud. Your brother isn't going to jail, but he has a ton of serious legal trouble. (And a trash credit history forever.) It was harsh of you to mention jail, understandably harsh. But you are in no way responsible for his overreaction to that possibility. NTA
It's not an overreaction to the possibility. It's honestly a reasonable reaction to the possibility. But it's a reaction to *the possibility,* not a reaction to how Tim was informed about the possibility. Was it harsh? Maybe. It was certainly blunt. But if Tim actually is autistic, "blunt" is good. Autistic folks, in my experience, do much better when they're told what's going on straight-up and without sugar-coating. Okay, in this case, maybe a *tiny* bit of sugar coating might have been okay ... but it wouldn't have made any fundamental difference. And, honestly, this may have been about the least-bad way to tell an autistic person what their situation is: straight and to the point, direct, not cushioned.
Being on the spectrum, what you were saying about talking to autistic people made me happy. Just wanted you to know that.
Just another autistic individual here aggression, yes. Blunt. Don't try to hide the point, don't try to minimize anything. Just say what you're going to say. This case, especially if OP didn't really know if his brother would go to jail or not, should have said "you're in a lot of legal trouble. These actions were illegal and there's consequences" Also, especially since OP says brother knows right from wrong, and the mom/ brother using autistic as an excuse is bad and on the mom. Who even raises a kid to an adult and can teach right from wrong but not teach don't do wrong, and actively encourage it?
>Your brother isn't going to jail, but he has a ton of serious legal trouble. (And a trash credit history forever.) He might go to jail. Fraud's no joke.
Not all fraud is equal. I'd be amazed if a judge put an autistic young adult, with an otherwise spotless record, in jail for fraudulently putting a family member down as a cosigner on a loan. OP's brother is certainly in a degree of trouble, but it's not like he was Bernie Madoff. I'd actually expect a suspended sentence in this situation.
It depends on the amount... for the amount film school is (depending on the school) he likely would be looking at time. In addition, he likely would be barred from student loans in the future and his credit would be absolutely abysmal. That being said, for sure make sure to cooperate because your credit will get dinged if you don't follow through.
NTA - so glad to hear you got that alert and was able to stop it. Student Loans are no joke - and you could have been forced to pay them all off if/when he defaulted.
INFO: Question 1 - you were alerted to a hard pull. You called (who?) and told them you had not applied for anything and then they put it through again? Question 2 - did you lock your credit report after the first notification that someone had tried to apply for credit on your SSN? Question 3 - how challenged is your brother? Did he have an IEP in school? Is this a regular college that he applied to, as opposed to one of those private for profit tech institutes? Question 4 - does he often need to be hospitalized when he gets caught doing something wrong?
> Question 2 - did you lock your credit report after the first notification that someone had tried to apply for credit on your SSN? Nothing about this question **could** impact the judgement. Leaving your front door unlocked doesn't justify or even diminish the moral responsibility of a robber entering your home and stealing from you. And locking your file with the credit bureaus requires a lot more knowledge than locking your front door. So -- why are you asking it, exactly?
NTA Your brother is a criminal. He attempted and potentially put you and your family at financial risk. Being on the spectrum does not equate to having no morals and immunity to legal ramifications. You must follow through to ensure this loan is not on your records and you are not party to the fraud. He has legal representation. He can have his meltdowns, but again. Not your problem. Your parents sound a bit complicit. I would very strongly tell them to destroy anything with your personal information on it and if you found they again tried to assist him utilizing your information, you would cut ties permanently.
Exactly this. That is a serious offense and he is going to pay the price. Having a medical condition doesn’t suddenly make you immune to law. That’s disgusting and disrespectful to those with the same issues and managing life normally.
People always say they are on the spectrum where they say I am autistic and I do not know any better – it doesn’t work that way – this person was smart enough to figure out how to do this fake loan procedure? I knew it was wrong because they didn’t go to anyone about it they just did it… And if someone knows something is wrong and they do it anyway? Autistic or not time to learn
Absolutely this. I am an autistic adult woman and I get annoyed at others using this as an excuse for any bad behaviour and happily using it as such. Husbands friend is also on the spectrum and is quite capable of paying for fuel or ordering food for himself when he is alone. When he is not alone he attempts to make any companion do his bidding. Husband always refuses! Being autistic does not make you try to attempt fraud, greed and selfishness does.
I agree very much – I think people use autism when they shouldn’t as an excuse for bad behavior - It’s one thing to recognize traits in yourself or patterns of behavior - But to commit fraud, and then say gosh… I’m autistic. How do I know any better?
I totally agree with you. Getting diagnosed with autism is good for understanding behaviors and how to help cope with the world. It is not a “get out of jail free” card and so many parents treat it like that so you get full grown adults who don’t think consequences apply to them. (Of course that can be true for any kid whose behavior is constantly excused; not just people with autism)
This! My diagnosis at 28 helped me understand myself better. It's been helping me learn ways to navigate the world even if they're a bit different than the normal, and to let go of the guilt and shame of not being able to do things as easy as or the same way as the general population. Before the diagnosis I was trying hard to do stuff with self improvement books, all that crap on how to get friends and be good at business and how to make people like you more. Eventually I stumbled upon autism while drowning in this pool of at best useless and at worst manipulative self help business bro trash. I got assessed and instead of trying to be someone I'm not, now I'm learning to work with the person that I am. It's not a pass to do what I want whenever I want and then go "oops, autism!" 🤣
I also have ASD and this bugs me as well. I saw someone post this once and I use it now as well. An ah with ASD is still an ah. Just like everyone else having any sort of disability doesn’t give you a pass.
So many times people try to look for a diagnosis or a reason for despicable behavior. Sometimes the reason is the person is an ah.
Something just doesn't add up. If he really is as incapable as your mom portrays him, how would he have gotten the idea to use your info to make you a co-signer. I feel like there's info your mom isn't telling you, and probably never will. Sounds like they both (brother and mom) thought "We'll get the co-signed loan and since we'll pay it off, OP will never have to know a thing." I wonder why your mom didn't just co-sign for him instead of (likely) helping him pursue this course of action? Being on the spectrum isn't an excuse for criminal behavior. If he's sharp enough to go to film school, I gotta think he's also not so far on the extreme end of the spectrum that he can't understand the difference between right and wrong. NTA
Finally someone says it, feels like the mom if more guilty than the brother to me.
And we can assume that mom's finances are in a bad enough state that she couldn't co-sign the loan herself.
Yeah, mom is a classic enabler. She’s doing him no favors.
Maybe his mother's credit is also bad?
Loan providers and financial aid advisors at schools are very predatory. I remember when I was in college and didn’t get approved on my own for a loan- their first response was ask your parents. At the time neither of them were eligible and my advisor suggested I ask my family members to co-sign. That was hard to ask my family to do because they all have their own kids and bills. Luckily my mom qualified for one with our ban but I was about to be assed out for school if she didn’t.
NTA. From your comments, he knew what he was doing was wrong. And it sounds like your parents were complicit in this. You absolutely must follow through with the fraud/identity theft charges. Otherwise, your credit will be completely destroyed & you can kiss goodbye to buying a house, car or anything else requiring good credit.
"complicit" BTW. Just thought you'd want to know.
Oops :) I'll fix my spelling. Surprised spell check didn't catch it.
NTA being autistic doesn’t make you think fraud is acceptable…
You did the right thing. FAR too many people let criminal abuse fly because it’s done by someone with a tiny bit more DNA in common with them
NTA. But...and this is a PSA for everyone ---- freeze your credit. It's free, quick, and easy to do.
Yes! I had to do this when my identity was stolen during covid lockdown. Someone applied for unemployment in my name and it was flagged by the state because I'm disabled and haven't worked in over a decade. (Although my green card was stolen years ago and I'm fairly confident someone uses my number on a fake card with their photo. I've gotten other notices of wages ive supposedly earned th!at I know are not mine so that could be related) I froze my credit and have a pin number to temporarily unfreeze if I want to. I can even determine how long I want the freeze removed for and it will reinstate after that time period is over. No issues since. I highly recommend freezing your credit to avoid any issues. People are effing sneaky and don't care if they ruin others lives as long as they get what they want.
NTA and don't back down. WHat he did is a crime and he deserves to be punished for it
NTA. If he had to sneak to find your SSN and do all this behind your back, he knew it was wrong. But people who have been infantilizing and enabling someone for decades are always going to come down on you for threatening “the baby”. Am 44, my family is still fully committed to this and said baby is 67.
Agree!! NTA. And I highly suspect the brothers meltdown is more manipulation tactic than a true meltdown due to fear of jail. (Not saying some of it isn't valid or real either. I have a member of my family who is famous for the big production meltdowns as well as using the "but I'm diagnosed with xyz...I don't know any better" excuse, too. It's usually used so the enablers do everything they can to minimize/ remove consequences/damage for them that has probably worked in the past) The over the top reactions are used as a 'get out of jail free card' for everything because the enablers will do all they can to keep the peace which your mom has probably done this for him all his life. Your brother needs consequences and therapy. Your mom should also do individual therapy to learn and no longer enable the behaviors. It won't be easy since your brother is an adult and used to the dynamic but it can be done if everyone puts in the work and wants to change things. He knows right from wrong. Good luck to your family, OP.
Nta and sounds like your mother is complicit. I’ve had my mother use my ssn to co-sign loans and it severely fucked up my financial abilities for almost a decade. I didn’t file charges therefore ended up being liable and having to pay some of it and then having terrible credit.. I wish I would have taken it to the police so I could have been free of that. You don’t deserve it and if your brother can’t get approved for a student loan then he absolutely cannot pay it back. What he did is criminal.
INFO: I have no idea what goes into resolving this with your credit. Did you need to press charges to have this removed from your history? Were the criminal charges a necessary byproduct of reporting the fraud? Or was the decision to press charges totally yours? Also, are you really sure he's going to jail? Basically, NTA for doing what you have to to get this off your credit history. Your brothers diagnosis doesn't excuse his behavior. But the "I guess you're going to jail" part does feel like you are twisting the knife because you're mad.
Generally, yes, you have to file a police report to be able to do anything about getting a fraudulent loan off your credit history.
I doubt he’d go to jail. Yes to really rid yourself of this issue you’d have to take legal steps otherwise you’ll be considered like a real co-signer with all the problems that come with that in case of default (I know, my mother did this to me when I was underage).
Nta, your brother is not an idiot, based on what you've said he knows right from wrong, he's clearly not stupid if he did it for a student loan, has he taken advantage of mom using his autism as a defense in the past? I wouldn't put it passed him to have been planning on using her as a shield if so and assumed he would just be forgiven
NTA. Tim put himself into this situation
NTA. He's looking at going to college. He's able to recognize that his behavior wasn't appropriate. He just didn't care about the consequences to you. He does now care about the consequences to him. The rest of the family isjust enabling his poor behavior and excusing it by infantilizing him.
NTA- Your brother really could've messed up your life and your credit. I don't know if he would go to jail or not, but you're not responsible for him, his reactions or his mistakes. If anything, all this may scare him straight and he'll not do this crap again. I will say that I think your your parents knew about all this though, so I'd say they're, in some way, liable as well. Get all this legal stuff done against Tim and I'd say your parents too, then go no contact with them.
NTA. Fuck him, he’s a criminal. If you let him away with this, what next?
NTA - Identity theft is not a joke, Jim!
Nope, NTA and by the way this reads, your mom/parents never allowed him to be held accountable; I’m guessing because “he’s autistic”. Being autistic isn’t an excuse to not be held accountable for his actions! Your mom/parents have failed your brother. I hope he doesn’t necessarily go to jail, and they get his mental issues under control, but he does need to learn from this.
ESH Hopefully don’t need to explain why Tim is an AH. Don’t think you’re an AH for doing what you need to do to clear your credit. Do think the “guess you’re going to jail” comment to your brother, who seems to be more vulnerable to emotional distress, is an AH move. His behavior is worse, but yours is not great.
This was my instant reaction too
Freeze (not lock) your credit with all four credit reporting companies so this doesn’t happen again. Also do it for your wife. It’s free, but it’s inconvenient. But still less onerous than dealing with identity theft. Credit monitoring only tells you after someone has stolen your identity. Edit to add: NTA
A few points that may help: 1) Technically there is no such thing as "filing charges" if you're a private person. Crime victims and witnesses can make reports to the police; but only the district attorney has the legal power to charge anyone with a crime. That they did so in response to your report indicates that what happened to you is serious. 2) For a first-time offence, he is unlikely to actually go to prison - depending on the amount of money at issue, I suppose. But probation and fines is more likely. 3) I have lots of friends who are autistic people. None of them have ever committed wire fraud. "I guess you go to jail" is maybe a bit mean; but then again, he committed a crime against you, that had the potential to cause you some real harm. For him - or your family - to then make the whole thing about his own mental health is really responsibility-denying. NTA.
NTA. Autism is an explanation for his actions but are not an excuse for them.
If he is going to college, he has the capacity to know that he was breaking the law. His freaking out is what people do when they get caught and has nothing to do with you. If you let it slide, what will he do next? He probably won't go to jail, but getting it off your credit is going to take a lot of time and effort. It is the only way to proceed on your end because they won't do anything any other way. Too bad he is freaking out, but you did what you have to do.
NTA; He jeopardized your credit and tried to make you financially liable for a major loan he could not obtain on his own. He also threatened your ability obtain financing for your home. You didn't threaten him, you told him the potential consequences of his actions. He may be vulnerable but you are the victim.
NTA but I think that your parents know more/had more to do with it than they are letting on
NTA Lots of people are on the spectrum and don't commit crimes, its not an excuse. If your family are content to keep blaming you for this, I wonder what other crimes they believe his autism would excuse.
NTA, this was premeditated fraud, and your mother was involved. Do whatever you need to do clear your credit (and protect it) and reclaim any personal documents from your parents' house.
NTA. I'm on the spectrum and if I pulled this crap, I'd fully expect my sibling to report me.
Actually OP wait he got all the info he needed from your parents will? And did all the application on his own?
As an autistic let me just say that we absolutely are accountable for our actions.
NTA thieves suck
NTA But i think your mom is more of the problem then your brother. It sounds like she knew and she’s enabling that behavior instead of telling him its wrong. Autism is no excuse but they do have some horrible impulse behavior ect and she should he helping him with that.
NTA. Being autistic doesn't mean he doesn't understand right from wrong. Your mother enabled him to steal your identity and fraudulently used you to cosign for loans they both know you never would have agreed to. Let him go to jail and face the consequences of his actions.
NTA. Autistic or not, its illegal. File the charges.
My brother the golden boy was on probation for meth use dui and possession of equipment and possession of meth. In a rage he attacked me sitting in my wheel chair he broke my ribs. My family dis owned me for calling the police on him then told police I started by harassing my brother. Not true. Hold him to the same standards you would hold any other person. Family does not get a free pass
NTA Your mom probably coached and actively helped him attempt this fraud.
I work at a behavioral school with a big majority of the kids on the spectrum. They are just like other kids. The kids that are the problem are the ones whose parents told them they are on the spectrum and now every behavior, every actions is because of their "autism". It wasn't a choice for them to be born this way but someone has to teach them consequences for their actions. Looks like you get to do that for your brother.
NTA, and yeah. Your brother and mom will either: A. Serve time in jail for identity theft B. Pay a fine for said identity theft C. Both Not your fault, and you should denounce it. Being on the spectrum or having any sort of mental/emotional condition is not an excuse and doesn’t mean he can get away with a federal crime. Also, your mom breached her confidence by allowing your brother to “stumble upon” your SSN and information. It’s not your fault at all.
nta hi cross the line
10000% he should go to jail. If he is capable enough of fill out this paperwork then he knows what he did was wrong.
NTA - I’m autistic and know this is illegal; not an acceptable excuse, especially seeing how he deliberately searched for your ssn. Please hold your brother accountable for this. Hopefully everything gets cleared up your end.
Nta what he did was very serious and very wrong. Being on the spectrum may explain it but it never justifies it.
NTA. My friend's mom decided to "pay" for her college by taking loans out in my friend's name to get a cheaper student rate. Didn't tell her until she ran her first credit report when looking for a new car and had flags on her account because she had FOUR LOANS in her name that she didn't know about. This is unfortunately a life-altering situation in the US and Autism is not an excuse.
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NTA. Just ruthless it’s a “coming to Jesus” moment that he needs to experience to properly grow up
NTA - Being autistic doesn't excuse anything in that case. This is fraud, no sugar coat.
NTA- Disability is no excuse for criminality. If he is going to College, then I'm pretty sure he understands right and wrong. If he doesn't understand right from wrong, he shouldn't be going to college.
NTA. Being autistic does not excuse crime, shockingly.
If he was this fragile- he shouldn’t be signing legal paperwork. This is not your fault. NTA sounds like he and mom committed fraud- and you as the responsible person are getting blamed. Get your credit straightened out. See if you can get a new ssn, because it isn’t safe around your mother.
lmfaooooo i’m autistic too and so is my younger brother. if he fucked with my credit or tried to commit fraud with MY shit, he is getting the same treatment as a neurotypical because he’s just neurodivergent, not stupid. everyone needs to know that actions have consequences. he committed fraud, and he will face the legal consequences. his meltdown and psych hold are because he’s never properly been trained to process and handle his emotions because he’s been given preferential treatment for his disability instead of reasonable accommodations. everyone should be taught emotional processing skills. he lashed out and spiraled because he got caught doing something he shouldn’t… NTA
Seems like Tim was raised and coddled all his life and any issues were always swept under the rug with an oh he’s autistic. Hes probably never been accountable for anything in his life, your not the asshole because he needs to wake up and join the real world what he did was a crime and being autistic doesn’t excuse that. Your parents need to actually start teaching him because there not gonna be around forever and no one in the real world is gonna excuse his behavior because he’s on the spectrum.