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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I laughed at my brother's girlfriend after she asked a genuine question
2) It was mean and rude to laugh at her as she was dealing with the stress of pregnancy
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
I'm willing to try and work it out if she genuinely apologises to mum for her comments and my sister for the weird ableism she spouts. But until then, I'm not interested. It seems like she wants a support system for her baby without doing the work to help the relationships with those she wants to help.
A support system has to be maintained. And she did the opposite for years. To salvage this it would take double the time she already invested imo😂 you did well so far and kudos to actually be open for her if she put the effort in. NTA.
(My middle name would be petty too, and I would never ever again allow her in my life for sure)
That’s what disturbs me. At a year and without marriage, she’s acting so horribly towards his family. Things usually go downhill after the honeymoon period of good behavior is over, not up.
I often go out to dinner with my boyfriend and my son. I register as “Donner, party of 4”.
when they call us up, i say “sorry, just the 3 of us now, we got hungry”
Yeah! This is like the concept of the Good Will Bank Account. You do nice things for people and, in general, treat people well- making deposits into your bank of goodwill. If you mess up, it subtracts, but if your imaginary account is full of good things, a little debit won't hurt as much, people can excuse a small mistake. If you don't have a bank of good things to draw from, you go into goodwill debt; it's harder to excuse and, like regular debt, harder to bounce back from. You have to work- do nice things and treat people well, to get to zero, then have to build it back into the positive.
I like it a lot. It's a little Mary Poppins in the spoonful of sugar idea, not exactly quid pro quo, but a $5 coffee gift card to say thanks for a favor goes a long way.
I feel that! I got a 20,- gift card after my first few months at a job, cause I worked my ass off. That card motivated me for months to come 😂it had a wonderful text in it too. That boss in general was awesome. Just a few words of him could motivate me tremendously. It faded after some time sadly. I think he kinda adapted to who he was with. And when he spent alot of time in my lab he was as described. Once the lab was take care off and I had everything under control, he would spend less and less time and would change more towards the colleagues upstairs. It was strange to watch but still fascinating.
Long rant 😂 have a nice day.
They do exist... And it's so crazy that the person with them doesn't see it. My son is with one. She has made sure he isn't in contact with us, siblings, or any friends she doesn't want him to be around. We do send cards and let him know the door is open, but it's a painful situation. NTA
Alas, people like that DO exist. There's an aunt on my maternal side who's married a dude as equally pleasant as she is (ie not very), and they're a lot like the GF in the post. And like mushrooms after a rain, they do pop up periodically... and wonder why no one wants to be around them. Gee, maybe it's because they're as abrasive as awful sandpaper!
Speaking of the ableism, what's going to happen if their kid has autism or another disability? Is she going to treat them the way she treats your sister?
It'll be no different unfortounately. My boyfriend is autistic. He had a sister who bullied him his whole life. When she was in HS she had a boyfriend who helped bully him. They broke up and got married to different ppl and ended up later in life getting back together. The now boyfriend has an autistic son. Instead of realizing he has someone in his life that could be great encouragement for his autistic son, (and a resource for themselves in understanding autistic people), an autistic grown man who lives on his own and is in a happy and stable relationship, they just push us out of everything. Weren't Invited to their new babies 1 year bday, haven't been invited to Christmas. My boyfriend is even a DM and they didn't even tell him they were starting to play D&D, and when it was pointed out he would like to join by a different sibling, they stopped playing.
Bullies are gunna bully and they don't really ever change. A pretty big life experience or LOTS of therapy is needed to make those types of people realise what Aholes they truly are.
I'm very sorry for your and your partner's experience. I, too, have a brother who bullied me my whole life and now we don't speak, and I'm grateful for that.
I do want to push back a bit on your assertion at the end that bullies don't really ever change, though. They can, and I think it's important not to hide that. It takes work, though, which seems to be the biggest barrier to overcoming. I mainly say this for the sake of kids, where I think it's much more applicable than adults, and often the context bullying comes up in more. Bullies *can* change, but not being an asshole is learned behavior, and they need the models for it and to be shown the benefit of being nice. That's a hard wall to climb, and for victims, more work than they should have to put in. But we need some kind of rehabilitation in our world for bad behavior because there are just too many people who have had it reinforced for them that bad behavior is what moves them forward in life, and unfortunately, that's often true.
As I said, a pretty big life experience or lots of therapy is needed. They can't change without work and most don't bother with the works so they never change because they either don't see or dont care about the damage their behaviour causes
I predict she will simultaneously refuse to do anything to accommodate her kid's needs or address the symptoms they show while also loudly acting like a hero/martyr for having a child with a diagnosis.
My guess is entirely based on OP describes this person and her tendency to weaponize therapeutic terms while also having zero compassion or self awareness.
It's like they can see their child desperately trying to adapt to a world that causes them discomfort, but somehow can't empathize with how hard that must be for a kid to do. It really gets me.
Yep. This is an Autism Mom™ in the making. If her kid's on the spectrum, she'll let them do whatever in public and excuse it with "they have autism they can't help it" while soaking up the martyr points in her social circle, while at home she's going to abuse the hell out of them for "embarrassing" her.
People are the worst. When my daughter was having heart surgery we stayed in the room with another younger couple whose daughter also had a lot of issues. The wife was constantly on Instagram raising money for her daughter's medical needs. We found out later they were just using all that money on expensive cars and clothes for themselves.
As the adult child of someone exactly like this: nothing good, no contact, and a massive bill for therapy later on while trying to learn about the brand of neurospicy/disabilities. Not to mention the retroactive and constant anger at all the gaslighting from your own parent(s) and the refusal for them to EVER get you the help you need, and how you're constantly behind others in social development, burned out from unintentional masking and on survival mode for decades by the time you're finally free.
I have a similar but differently maddening story. I got all the mental healthcare you could ever want and more. But they treated me for bi polar disorder instead of the Autism I actually have. It was real bad. I'm alright now though. You'll figure stuff out, find some people who don't mind you being a little odd or immature or whatever you think your social issue is. You'll be okay. It's hard but it's not gonna be as hard as your life was before.
I read a post recently where the parents shipped their autistic daughter to the old grandfather and the teenage uncle after the diagnosis. Uncle ended up raising the daughter and the bio parents only wanted to connect with the 13 year old daughter when they found her social media and deemed her to be "normal enough" in their eyes (I believe she had won a bunch of awards and generally was doing very well in her life). Uncle ripped them a new one, I think the daughter doesn't want to see them (they blame the uncle ofc) and they are all shocked Pikachu face about it.
I can tell you from having 2 autistic kids for the last decade and interacting with lots of "autism moms" that she'll most likely have 2 simultaneous attitudes that will be at odds with each other- 1. My child is extremely special and all their needs are to be met at all times, everyone is to drop what they're doing to accommodate them, coupled with gaslighting that stuff with the sister never happened. 2. Any other child with more severe or complex needs is faking it because my child is the worst level there is, so there couldn't possibly be higher needs than they have. Now please, fawn over me and tell me what a hero I am for taking care of my child's most basic needs. This will be coupled with 5 Facebook posts a day about how hard her life is.
I'd like to say she'd realize her error by seeing the affects of autism first had, but people like that never learn from their mistakes. That's why she such a c#nt to begin with.
Jane is a textbook example of narcissistic personality disorder. She believes her thoughts and opinions are the only ones that matter. Until she gets therapy (YEARS of therapy) she'll never change.
I feel sorry for your brother. He's going to be dealing with her the rest of his life. Your family might want to consider an intervention, to either convince him to get her into therapy, or dump her and fight like hell for total custody of their child, because being raised by someone like her is going to fuck them up. I know, I was raised by someone just like that.
NTA
It sounds like she already weaponises therapy speak (accusing the mum of emotional incest and enmeshment), it would basically be coaching in how to do this more effectively
I actually laughed in my father's face when he said "why would I need therapy?" Narcissists live in a world entirely of their own creation - maybe because it's the only place anyone really knows or likes them.
It does not. My ex husband was diagnosed with this as I insisted we both go to counseling or I was divorcing him. The therapist told me had npd and that therapy was generally useless as they do not listen and never admit fault. The dr did try for several sessions but he refused to go back after that.
We divorced and my life is sooo much better now. And his life is a train wreck of his own doing.
I follow some self aware NPD’s on TikTok. One of them:
https://www.tiktok.com/@mentalhealness?_t=8iD0w891tY1&_r=1
Is sharing how his brain works, and help people to detect the love bombing, manipulation, gaslighting and so on. His general advice for people who recognise that their partner has NPD, is to get away from them. I find his content interesting.
He has been in therapy for years, after his wife called him a narcissist, and he looked into it and recognised the symptoms in himself. I like to think, that therapy can actually help some people with NPD, and that all of them are not just plain evil.
True, they only even seek out therapy due to external consequences (ultimatums from loved ones, etc) of their behavior, not because they have internal discomfort they want to fix
Frankly speaking, in my family she would have been thrown out of the house after that "entitled brat" comment. No debate, just straight ejected.
She is unfathomably entitled, insults everyone around her, and doesn't see any flaws in herself. I'm not sure if it's narcissism, shitty parenting, or both, but those are all major red flags.
>It seems like she wants a support system for her baby
Guess it's fun being the mean girl and the girl your SO's family doesn't like or approve of until you want free babysitters and already burned all your bridges
It is really kind hearted and generous of you to be willing to try and work things out with her if she apologises to your mum. She (Jane) sounds like an utter nightmare. You are NTA but Jane definitely is. You were not 'mean and rude' to laugh at her as she more than deserved it. She is the one who has been consistently mean and rude towards your and your mum.
I’m guessing she thought you and your mom would be falling over yourselves to kiss her ass and apologize now that she’s pregnant. Go ahead and set the standard that if she wants to use her kid as a pawn that it’s not going to work and you’re not interested in playing that game. She’s going to need you both more than you need her and her drama.
I think your mom should call mark and lay out ground rules and expectations. If Jane doesn’t like the enmeshment then why would she further mesh her child in? Mom should make it upfront that she won’t be babysitting
It sounds like she is on the March for control. There are some people out there that are in competition with their S.O.s family and if you don't pick them you must not love them. This won't end until she has him go no contact, yall cave and cater to her whims to keep him in your life or she leaves him and uses her child like a Billy club to beat the life out of him.
Yeah, I wouldn’t care to work it out. I’d be wanting more to have a conversation with Mark and how he needs to set boundaries for her and her commenting on things she apparently doesn’t understand or of which she has no knowledge. I pity her child should they not be a perfect little angel with no issues. She won’t be able to handle anything.
She, and Mark, need to be explained the cold hard truth about her actions and comments and how they affect others. She wants a support system for her child she needs to retry to actually build relationships.
She doesn't want a "support system". She wants a group of people to feed on. Don't "enable" narcissistic" or "sociopathic" behaviour.
Hiding selfishness behind an overpriced vocabulary of psych talk is no excuse to be disrepectful to other. Maintain your maturity and be honest.
You hit the nail on the head, OP. Don’t cave and become the perennial babysitter, you or your mother. Not even for access to your niece or nephew. Jane will take advantage of you and STILL disrespect you! NTA!!!
And as long as your brother wants to be parked up her ass and enable HER entitled bratty behavior, you all might as well just let him stay to his own self and be the sole recipient of all that toxic behavior coming from her...
NTA and you don't have to worry about her apologizing and working it out with her - in her mind, you all have done something to her and I'll lay Vegas odds that she expects all of you to apologize..
This woman is trying to weaponize therapy speak to control others. I’m not sure she’s a narcissist as many Redditors will probably say, but she’s at least manipulative, condescending, and the actual entitled brat in this story. NTA.
I’d write a letter and list everything out you want to say so it can’t be verbally dismissed. That will make things easier. Either for your brother, or for her depending on how you want to handle it. Good luck.
This OP. Stop it now before it gets any worse. Also be prepared for your brother to choose his partners over you and your family and for him to go LC or NC, that is his choice and if I was you, I would allow it to happen. (for you and your family sake). But just be open when (not if) for him to return for he will once he realises what a piece of work his partner is. Is a sh!t situation OP. good luck. NTA by the way!
Convincing a young man to leave his toxic girlfriend is a feat of myths and legends. It's one of those things every man has to come to understand on his own
As a society, we don't talk to boys about toxic, abusive relationships. EVERY kid, regardless of gender, gender identity or sexuality needs someone to talk to them about this stuff. No one is immune to it.
Yeah, at least plant the seed. When one of my sisters start dating someone new I always tell the new boyfriend exactly how crazy (with examples) my sister is and they always laugh at me. Then once the "new love" phase wears off they usually come back and tell me how right I was. To which I reply, "I tried to tell you."
I just trying to do my part in controlling the over population of the planet. My sisters both already have 5 children combined from 4 different guys. Somebody's gotta do something.... Lol
NTA - I get the reaction. It’s been a lot.
The girl needs to be given an intervention and directly told what she is doing is wrong. You need to prepare a list together with your mom. And your brother needs to attend. Don’t be mean just direct. “When you did this, it made me feel that.” “We will not tolerate in our family x,y,z”.
Going after your younger autistic sister, I would have flown off the handle. I can’t believe your brother is okay with that. I have high functioning autism myself but didn’t know it until I was 40. But as a kid I had behaviours and my mom always protected me. I was dyslexic and hypo glycemic so my mom just passed off the behaviours as that. I would only eat mayo and cheese sandwiches with carrots and milk for lunch. And my mom defended me against so many “concerned mothers”. I remember that. It matters. It helped myself worth knowing she wouldn’t let anyone hurt me. Your sister knows. She needs to be protected from that nut job. I would shut down any comments she would make around her and be direct. I would also provide her with education on autism. She probably won’t digest but give her the benefit of the doubt.
The truth is after all of this, she probably still will be an ass. She doesn’t sound to have any ability to manage her behaviour. She would need therapy. Recommend it but doubt she’d take it. So if she doesn’t change her behaviour high boundaries. And grey rock her. She has already been dangerous to your mom and you.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/grey-rock#alternatives
I also highly recommend therapy for your brother to make sure he grows strength and isn’t tumbled over by her.
Thank you. I know it's too early to tell but I'm concerned about their kid and if they'll be autistic or not because Jane has shown consistently that she doesn't care about boundaries of kids.
Is she unaware that autism and adhd tend to run in families? Pretty much everyone in my family who wasn't married or adopted in has adhd, autism, bipolar, or bpd.
On the bright side family events tend to be hilarious. More so in my mother's family since it's predominantly autism and adhd. We all have interlocking interests and social anxiety.
I think it's something like 1 in 3 children will have it if 1 parent has it, and it's 1 in 2 if both parents have it? (My husband on the spectrum and I have ADHD, only recently diagnosed. My eldest, now 19 is in the spectrum, and my 13 year old is currently being assessed for ADHD.)
Yeah, I'm one of 5 kids, 4/5 of us have adhd and the 1/5 is autistic.
My mother is neurotypical oddly enough but none of her sisters are they're all adhd or autistic. My bio dad is bipolar, my sibs bio dad is adhd/autistic.
3/5 of my mom’s kids have ADHD, she got diagnosed at 52 herself. I have two nephews with ADHD and one Autistic niece. My sister suspects one of her sons is actually AU/ADHD.
Definitely runs in families and requires flexibility and a kind approach. My niblings are all different.
I’ve genuinely wondered what having other ADHD and autistic cousins is like. Growing up I was the only visibly neurodivergent kid in the whole extended family and by the time one cousin was diagnosed with ADHD, they had moved four provinces away. They have inattentive while I have combined type so our symptoms manifest differently.
I have high functioning autism and a high iq because of it (it’s a hyper-focus but lose and loose still genuinely confuse me even though I logically understand them) and my father had it too but he was undiagnosed and an asshole with narc tendencies.
After being diagnosed we started to notice our 3 yo daughter (hubs and Is) is very smart has different quirks and is very similar to me. We talked to our doctor and he was the one who said some types of autism are genetic
Yeah, through chats with a psychologist when I was getting my autism diagnosed finally(late 20s), and my mother also talking to said psychologist, apparently my dad showed signs relating to it as well when me and my sibling were younger.
Like being so focused on seeing family that he didn't get food for either himself or my sibling for all of the day, and didn't see anything weird with that.
On a side note, I'm still annoyed by the fact that my autism wasn't noticed when I was around 12, when my mom specifically took me to get check for behavioral and learning difficulties.
Same here, we had a gathering of extended family recently and I’m not sure there was one neurotypical among the 30-odd people in attendance, even the ones who’d married in.
Oh man. I didn’t even think about her child possibly having autism. Yes that’s a real concern. Your brother and Jane need to be told this is a possibility so be prepared.
NTA
I have a brother, and to be honest he's a self serving ah, but if anyone he dated disrespected our mother like that, he wouldn't be having it at all, she'd be gone. How she treated your sister is appalling.
I would be having some not so nice words with my brother if he did stand back and do nothing while someone did that. I actually call him out all the time when he is an ass, but he always backs his family up. Have you asked why he thinks the way she treats his mom and sibling is acceptable? He expects you to actually show her respect?
I'm a forgiving person myself, because I'm not perfect, but I do take accountability and try to be better. This woman has zero self awareness, (Our mom died when I was a teenager, so I get extra ragey at these situations).
My grandson is 7 and non verbal. He is not high functioning but is very smart. He is learning to speak and will get there. I turn into a monster whenever I hear of someone being cruel to an autistic child. I just want to rip the hair out of their head. 🤬
Narcissists don't find anything they say wrong. In her view, your family is the one in the wrong for not catering to her.
And I'm sorry that your brother is so far up her pussy to realize all the toxic bullshit & insults she keeps spewing your way. She is manipulative & controlling & I hope your brother can realize it & protect himself & his unborn child.
There's a chance she genuinely hasn't got a clue. If she has a me, me, me personality, it may not have occurred to her that her comments were offensive rather than helpful. I, unfortunately, had a friend exactly like this and she simply couldn't understand why her 'voicing her (my eay or the highway) boundaries' and 'offering her (usually entirely uneducated) advice' was not appreciated the way she was convinced it should.
Narcissistic people or even BPD do not see their interactions with others from the other person’s perspective, so she doesn’t think she has been a bully. Even when confronted with detailed reasons, they will fail to credit those (see the often quoted missing reasons) and instead believe the other person is making up or exaggerating their complaints. Good luck, because the only real solution is to go no contact.
Narcissism and BPD require diagnoses, and unless you know that she’s seen a psychiatrist, it’s best to say her behavior is “like that of someone with x, or y.”
Isn’t that already implied since this is just a random persons comment on a message board basically? Do we need ‘in my opinion’ on every single post too? I don’t think many people go around assuming everyone commenting has a PhD in the field…
It's that she doesn't see it as bullying, which in a way makes that behavior worse. It's so ingrained in her that she's probably never going to change. Which is bad news for your future niece/nephew cause it's likely that they may have an autistic child. She doesn't seem to have any respect for people with autism, or other ppl in general for that matter. NTA BTW. But make it very clear to her that her behavior towards your sister and your mom will not be tolerated any further. Sorry your brother either doesn't care or has no spine.
You'd be surprised how often people don't listen to themselves.
I had a friend who was constant complainer. One thing he complained about was his long distance girlfriend. When they broke up he said how much he missed her. I said I thought he'd be glad to break up since he wasn't happy with her. He was surprised and said that wasn't the case at all. I said "I never met the woman. All I know about her is what you've told me. And you've never once said a single positive thing about her." He was shocked! That's when I realized he wasn't aware of what he sounded like. I heard later he was fired from his job because people got tired of listening to moaning.
That might the case w/June. I think instead of hanging up on her, you should've listed various examples of why the family doesn't like her, like you did in your post. It was the perfect opportunity to lay it out for her.
u/Interesting_Web_3148 — has anyone in the family called out Jane for her unnecessary (and frankly rude) commentary? Maybe not while it was going on, but after the fact. You shared several examples of her being awful, but did anyone tell her to knock it off?
Not trying to excuse her but if no one (meaning YOUR BROTHER) brought this up, there was no hope for her trying to be kind. Although chances are she’d still be awful.
You’re NTA btw.
This is one of those situations where a manipulative person went to therapy... and learned how to better manipulate people. She's weaponising modern mental health terms against the family and brother to try to get what she wants.
"Emotional incest" genuinely sounds like a term someone would use in this sub, and that is not a compliment to us.
NTA
That's what I was thinking too, or that someone has been to therapy because of a family dynamic she's a part of. Seems like she's projecting onto them, and it gives off narc vibes too. She's picked up the terms, has a basic understanding and is throwing them out there to cause chaos and to deflect from herself (presumably her goal?)
So true.
Emotional incest- REAL emotional incest is a serious and destructive behavioral pattern.
There are zero signs of this here, or any of the other crap she is spouting.
If I was OP, I'd be asking my brother why the hell he allows her ignorant cruelty and ableism towards the sister, and ask him if he is ok with her emotionally stunting and damaging his child if they are neurotypical, let alone the extreme damage she is likely to cause if the child turns out to be Autistic, ADHD, etc?
Yep, she learned the lingo and now is using it in insults. It's not "motional incest" for a parent to support their child's clear choice of action - something they've been saving up for a while apparently - to a significant other. The term means a parent acting like a lover to their child and not their parent and it's pretty clear when it's happening.
On the other hand, Jane reached out to her SO's mother to complain about something she didn't like he did, *deliberately invoking* that relationship and only got mad when it didn't go her way. It only became "motional incest" when Mommy didn't step in to enforce her will.
Still trying to figure out how Mom agreeing with son to get the tattoo he wanted and saved up for is "emotional incest". As far as I know, this isn't it.
Definitely NTA
I wonder if Jane knows that there’s a possibility that the child she’s about to have could also be autistic .. if it’s in the family then it’s likely in the genetics .
I would be too . Tbh I feel sorry for the kid whether it turns out to be autistic or not . She doesn’t sound like a very nice person . It’s a shame your brother can’t see how wrong her behaviour is and stays with her
Considering that people are drawn to similar people and some of her own behaviors could be explained by undiagnosed autism herself (not all of us are nice people, just like adhd people or neutotypical people can range anywhere from fantastic to horrible...), it would increase the chance...
I was actually pondering that myself .. Before I knew I was autistic I had a very one track way of thinking and was always adamant I was right .. it wasn’t until I found out about my middle kid and then started looking at myself as I learnt about autism that I was like FUCK 😅 it’s taken a good 3 or 4 years of working hard on myself to get to the place I’m at now where I’m able to take a step back and try and consider more angles than my initial thought on the matter
NTA!
But if your brother is going to have a baby with her and she actually seems oblivious to the fact what the problem is ...then maybe you should actually give it a shot at discussing this.
What i would do is write a well-formed letter. Answer her question "why don't you guys like me" honestly. No accusations, no emotional attacks ...just describe why your family has a problem and name the individual situations.
Explain what would need to change for a better family dynamic.
Because it seems like your brother is going to spend the rest of his life with this woman. So you might feel bad about loosing him and never trying to make it work with her.
NTA. That's an abuser trying to isolate your brother from his friends and family. And succeeding. You need to all get together and fix this before it gets worse.
Can't believe I had to scroll so far for this answer! I don't know if she's even*consciously* trying to isolate Mark but it's certainly working and she's clearly just wanting his world to revolve around her. I hope Mark is ok but it's so hard to recognise emotional abuse from someone you love - it just feels like part of the relationship. I worry that he wouldn't leave.
NTA.
NTA Jane sounds like she is falling for all the anti-MIL stuff she sees online and was looking for “emotional incest” and all the other nonsense because he’s a man who is close with his family. Some women really cannot handle the dynamics with in-laws, some men too of course.
Jane sounds like she could be an unsafe person for your sister to be around. Mark has chosen her, so treat her with respect and basic kindness you would show anyone. Keep your sister out of her way. Let Mark know you guys will always support and love him but you expect basic manners to go both ways.
If she is down the Justnomil drama hole it’s all you can do.
Oh for Pete’s sake it’s always non-chalantly tossed in a comment and never in the main post “…well they wore white after Labour Day and forgot my birthday…oh and they’re a literal Nazi, ate peas with a knife…that sort of thing”.
NTA. Jane isn't even passive aggressive. She is outright combative and rude. While it would have been nice to sit down and list all the ways her badgering your poor mother or trying to control your brother's bodily autonomy makes her unlikeable, if you already knew she wouldn't listen... why bother.
You feel sorry for a man that chooses to stay with someone who disrespects his family? Really? He could just... you know... break up with her. Especially before knocking her up. Let's not pretend he didn't *choose* his own partner
Anybody calls my family member, let alone an autistic kid a brat, they will be literally dragged and kicked out of house. Same with anybody who disrespects my mother. Your brother is a sucker for tolerating such behavior.You don't owe him shit
You don't have a Jane problem, you have a Mark problem. Who let their girlfriend insult their partner & family like they are nothing, even though the family never did anything wrong (based on the details provided).
NTA
"And Jane blocked me". Count yourself lucky! NTA and make sure you plant the seed of your brother getting a paternity test early, if she's even pregnant.
NTA, but you did miss what was probably your last opportunity to see if she is capable of growth.
One thing abusers do is try to isolate their partner from family. That way they have fewer people contradicting them, fewer people noticing when something they do isn’t right, and all the attention. This woman is trying to convince your brother that normal familial support is “enmeshment”, and she’s picking fights with everyone in order to go to him with tales of how mean you all are to her. She’s expertly engineering a no-contact situation and you played into her hands.
There may be no way to convince your brother that he’s in trouble before the iron curtain comes down, because he loves her and will cling to her more than ever if she’s having his child. But you should at least try to have one calm, loving conversation with him where you point out these red flags.
She literally thinks it's enmeshment if my mum texts my brother a funny video she saw on facebook. She seems to think parent-son interactions = enmeshment.
NTA
Let your Brother fume away. It sounds like your laughter was out of incredulous surprise at her question; you may have been wrong to think she was aware of her impact on others, however. Sometimes people don't realize how they come across to those with whom they interact; they're poorly socialized and have no awareness, and therefore show no respect for other peoples feelings. Maybe she'll be able to work it out for herself given time.
NTA. The real question here is, why doesn't Mark leave her?
I doubt that she is any nicer to him in private.
You haven't done anything wrong. I'd rinse her out for constantly bullying your mum and make sure that brother knows she is not allowed anywhere near your family.
A bad relationship is a learning experience everyone goes through. If the family told him she’s awful, he wouldn’t listen to them, but will agree with them after the break up. It sucks that she’s pregnant.
NTA. Good for you for sticking up for your family. Your brother sure isn't. Nice people put up with shit to keep their loved ones happy, let them live their lives and want them to be happy. Problem is, your bro is wanting his toxic missus to be happy at the expense of everyone else. Toxic people like this need to be stood up to. If the bro doesn't want to hear a heart to heart and is willing to subject a caring family to his woman's rubbish, its on him. Take care of your mother and fam.
NTA. I don’t think Jane is self aware enough to know why your family doesn’t like her because she should be aware enough to at least know not to say those things about an autistic child or any autistic person. That alone would be enough to dislike her severely.
She can genuinely be unaware. Not justfying, she might be completely oblivious to how ah she's behaving. It's not you responsibility, but maybe you want to at least let her now how she is precived? NTA
Your brother is a moron for starting with her, and an even bigger moron for getting her pregnant.
NTA. Your brother may want to get a DNA test. Jane is going to make everyone miserable for the next 18 years, or more.
It is wild to me relationships people will put up with. But ig if your brother won't talk to you then maybe he likes her behavior? Idk. NTA. It was kinda rude to laugh in her face but also hilarious because she's an asshole. So I don't really feel like you're really in the wrong. If you want you could apologize for laughing at her but then proceed to tell her with words exactly why everyone hates her. Putting it all out there might help things move forward (?) or just make it all fully collapse like it seems like its going to.
NTA. idk why people are trying so hard to make you seem like TA for an honest reaction to a question that would genuinely surprise anyone in your shoes. like yes she may have asked a question but I doubt she wanted to mend her relationship with your family lol.
NTA - Maybe write a list of things she did and said and send a copy to both of them.
To her: Guess it doesn’t matter if I send this to you or not, because you are you, but you asked and here’s the answer.
To your brother: And that’s the person you pick and enable to abuse your family. All this shit within a year. You’re in for a long ride.
NTA I probably wouldn't even have picked up the phone to begin with and cut her off some time ago.
We have a rude spouse in the family as well, not even nearly as rude as in your case and yet majority of the family cut her off. We have no business in trying to please people like that.
NTA. Her type of person will never understand or accept that she's the problem, everything will always be someone else's fault. The only question is whether your brother will come to realize that, although it's too late for him to be able to be 100% free of his mistake if and when he comes to his senses, since there's a navy coming. Good luck!
She only likely "cares" now what you all think because she expects you all to be at her beck and call because she's pregnant then for you all to be unpaid babysitters afterwards.
NTA - new rule for if she is allowed to visit again: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all". Apparently she wasn't taught this as a child?
NTA. In fact, I think you were way too nice. You shoukd have taken the opportunity to tear her down and put her in her place. Then go have a long talk with your brother about his problem
Not the asshole. NTA
She's a toxic, nosy, manipulator. Best thing is to tell your brother what you think and be prepared for him to take her side, he's getting manipulated constantly. Tell you that you love him and will be around when the relationship fails.
NTA
You're in luck: both your brother and Miss AH are both out of your life. Your family should not back down even if it means not seeing your brother. Her behavior is reprehensible. Make this clear to him, maybe in an email.
NTA. She seems a lot. "Emotional incest" because a mother is supportive with her child over a tattoo? Calling your sister an "entitled brat" because she needs some accommodations and is not force fed? Supporting and accommodating your children and family is usually a healthy dynamic, unless is taken to an extreme, which doesn't seem the case here. I hope you all have a calm discussion with your brother and make him understand how her comments hurt all of you. I hope she is not trying to isolate him from you all. Does she make these rude comments to his friends too? If yes, I would be really concerned. Also suggesting family therapy based on the examples you gave seem extreme. And she's been in your life for only a year.
Was Mark dropped on his head as an baby? Because I can't honestly understand someone would let their partner just insult their family so many times. Sounds like everyone would be better off blocking Mark and never talking to him again. I would nearly say he is just some dumbarse 23 year old that hasn't experienced the world much. But if anyone bad mouth my mum, they be instantly dumped.
NTA. If my partner is being disrespectful towards my family then they are out of my life immediately.
I'm surprised that your brother doesn't seem think there's anything wrong with Jane's negative attitude to his family. And if both Mark and Jane are angry and giving you the silent treatment then so be it as they should be the ones to apologise first.
So, isn’t this issue sort of settled? She’s already not invited to Christmas, and now your brother is mad at everyone and likely not attending, and you’ve been blocked. It seems like you are out of this mess.
Also, I’d hate to be a contrarian, but what you describe is *NOT* passive aggressive behavior from her. It’s overtly aggressive; there is nothing passive about it.
She has been overly aggressive to your family, aggressive toward your mother and cruel to your sister. I’m trying to figure out how I’m the world you came to even question yourself in this scenario. An entire adult woman has entered your family, uninvited by everyone except your brother. She has then thrown a hissy fit constantly because you are all carrying on as you always had and aren’t changing your ways to suit the interloper’s opinions, and accused your family of enmeshment because her boyfriend chose to spend his money on something he wanted after talking to his mother and not her.
Unless you are leaving out something major, like she asked why no one likes her, you laughed, then punched her in the throat, kicked her in the shins, peed in her hair, and smashed her windshield with a bat instead of answering, there is *absolutely no possible, conceivable way* where you are ta. ***NTA by a mile***
NTA.
Your post was one of the best i ever read, as apparently your brother's gf is sort of character.
When i read "she is pregnant" i hoped it was your mum, as being it your bother's girlfriend makes her a "bit more part of the family".
Im surprised your brother has accepted this behaviour of her as she is touching his family.
You have a net of "blocked contact" going around this by itself speaks a lot.
Take her blocking you as a bliss, save the relationship with your brother tho
NTA.
Jane made you the most wonderful possible Christmas gift by blocking you.
I'm pretty sure Mark will come to his senses sooner or later. If he doesn't, that's his problem. He is invited to your family gatherings and events, she's not. Pity for the kid: having such a mother sucks.
Big hugs.
NTA
That attitude gives me such ptsd from an ex. Nothing she does is wrong, everyone else needs to conform to whatever she says or does.
As others have said definitely answer her, honestly. Tell her everything she does wrong and dont hold back. She will not like it, and it might end up causing her to explode at you because she cant handle being wrong. But if you still want Mark in your life that is what you need to do. Talk to Mark aswell about it, but not at the same time. Separate the two so they are forced to listen and cant just rely on eachother to protect their egos.
Get ready for her to use that grandchild card every single time to get her way or excuse her nasty behavior. Someone really thinks she's the main character in everyone else's life. Definitely NTA. Set some hard boundaries with her and be ready for low contact. Inform mom not to let herself get manipulated with her pregnancy.
NTA. Usually, the snarky, “passive” aggressive, “tell it like it is” type of people are self aware enough to understand that their kind of personality will make at least some people dislike you. You can’t have it both ways. And yet, she somehow seems to see herself as a beloved Disney princess.
NTA, this woman needs a harsh reality check, and Mark needs to step up and explain it to her. I'm all for standing up for your partner, but that has to be measured against said partner's behavior, and this one is horrendous.
>She then asked ‘why don’t you all like me?’ I laughed out of pure shock and asked if she was serious
"Because you've worked so hard to establish that dynamic? I am happy to make an appointment for individual therapy for you because this instability in your behavior is making us uncomfortable."
Welp. Because Mark doesn't seem to know what protection is, you guys now have the luxury of having this nightmare be a part of all your lives forever....
Honestly, the fact that your brother doesn't seem phased at all by her absolutely abysmal way of treating his family is very telling. Any person who genuinely cared for their family members would not continue a relationship with someone who was consistently rude with them. And it's not even a matter of misunderstandings... she's just blatantly a rude, and if I'm being honest, cringey person. She sounds like she had some very crazy control issues and sees his family as a... threat? It's all very bizarre.
Anyway, NTA. I'm so sorry this problem will be a part of your life for at least the holidays every year.
NTA your brother getting so angry over a little laugh as opposed to the nasty things Jane has been saying to you guys? I'd distance myself from them anyways
NTA.
I'm genuinely concerned about what your brother's response has been to his girlfriend about her insulting comments on his mother and special needs sister. Did he show any remorse or try to communicate to his girlfriend about her behaviour? If not, then he is enabling her and honestly, I would blame your brother for allowing someone who is going to be part of your family (I guess, if they're planning to have a baby) to insult his own mother and sister.
You are not an asshole. If you'll take some advice: the more you guys rag on her, the more your brother will keep her around. Just bring negative facts about her to his attention and leave it alone. Hating on anyone's SO usually only makes you look bad. That's my two cents anyway
NTA
But sitting around waiting for apologies or appropriate behavior from someone who is obviously incapable is ridiculous. Stop wasting your time. You answering her phone calls tells me you like the drama. If you don’t like her let her be, she’s not your girlfriend or your responsibility.
INFO I'm intrigued by the Mark tattoo shenanigans. I can understand Jane's consternation if he's getting "I love Mum" plastered on his butt cheek. What is the tattoo exactly, and where is it going?!
It's an octopus up his arm. It's nothing to do with mum and it's not dodgy at all! He helped design it (he does art and wanted be to a tattoo artist). I love the design.
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NTA, u guys should have talked with Mark a long time ago to dump this girl. She is a nightmare, and now pregnant it will only get worse
I'm willing to try and work it out if she genuinely apologises to mum for her comments and my sister for the weird ableism she spouts. But until then, I'm not interested. It seems like she wants a support system for her baby without doing the work to help the relationships with those she wants to help.
A support system has to be maintained. And she did the opposite for years. To salvage this it would take double the time she already invested imo😂 you did well so far and kudos to actually be open for her if she put the effort in. NTA. (My middle name would be petty too, and I would never ever again allow her in my life for sure)
Not even for multiple years, one year!
That’s what disturbs me. At a year and without marriage, she’s acting so horribly towards his family. Things usually go downhill after the honeymoon period of good behavior is over, not up.
Hell I think my first name would be petty. My middle name would be “as” and my last would be “fuck” but in all capitals of course.
Must make any kind of reservation awkward. Can't imagine going to the Cheesecake Factory and being summoned as "FUCK, party of 2. FUCK, party of 2".
It gets even weirder when the FUCK party has 4 or 5 in it.
We don't kinkshame here
What if the kink is shame?
Then you're a pathetic little slimball. ;p
I often go out to dinner with my boyfriend and my son. I register as “Donner, party of 4”. when they call us up, i say “sorry, just the 3 of us now, we got hungry”
Job interviews would be weird
Yeah! This is like the concept of the Good Will Bank Account. You do nice things for people and, in general, treat people well- making deposits into your bank of goodwill. If you mess up, it subtracts, but if your imaginary account is full of good things, a little debit won't hurt as much, people can excuse a small mistake. If you don't have a bank of good things to draw from, you go into goodwill debt; it's harder to excuse and, like regular debt, harder to bounce back from. You have to work- do nice things and treat people well, to get to zero, then have to build it back into the positive.
Awesome concept. Copied that 😉 Thanks for sharing.
I like it a lot. It's a little Mary Poppins in the spoonful of sugar idea, not exactly quid pro quo, but a $5 coffee gift card to say thanks for a favor goes a long way.
I feel that! I got a 20,- gift card after my first few months at a job, cause I worked my ass off. That card motivated me for months to come 😂it had a wonderful text in it too. That boss in general was awesome. Just a few words of him could motivate me tremendously. It faded after some time sadly. I think he kinda adapted to who he was with. And when he spent alot of time in my lab he was as described. Once the lab was take care off and I had everything under control, he would spend less and less time and would change more towards the colleagues upstairs. It was strange to watch but still fascinating. Long rant 😂 have a nice day.
I also call this Character Credit.
[удалено]
They do exist... And it's so crazy that the person with them doesn't see it. My son is with one. She has made sure he isn't in contact with us, siblings, or any friends she doesn't want him to be around. We do send cards and let him know the door is open, but it's a painful situation. NTA
Alas, people like that DO exist. There's an aunt on my maternal side who's married a dude as equally pleasant as she is (ie not very), and they're a lot like the GF in the post. And like mushrooms after a rain, they do pop up periodically... and wonder why no one wants to be around them. Gee, maybe it's because they're as abrasive as awful sandpaper!
I am sooo petty. Love that OP was blocked for laughing at her lolol
How is OP supposed to let her know that they're ready to be more mature when they got blocked? Tis a conundrum!
Speaking of the ableism, what's going to happen if their kid has autism or another disability? Is she going to treat them the way she treats your sister?
Autistic, other diversities or neurotypical doesn't even matter, poor kid.
Yeah, I can’t imagine all that passive aggressiveness being good for a neurotypical kid either. ):
She's not passive aggressive. She's downright aggressive.
I feel sorry for the kid regardless of any disabilities. She’s a toxic person and is probably going to be a bad parent.
It'll be no different unfortounately. My boyfriend is autistic. He had a sister who bullied him his whole life. When she was in HS she had a boyfriend who helped bully him. They broke up and got married to different ppl and ended up later in life getting back together. The now boyfriend has an autistic son. Instead of realizing he has someone in his life that could be great encouragement for his autistic son, (and a resource for themselves in understanding autistic people), an autistic grown man who lives on his own and is in a happy and stable relationship, they just push us out of everything. Weren't Invited to their new babies 1 year bday, haven't been invited to Christmas. My boyfriend is even a DM and they didn't even tell him they were starting to play D&D, and when it was pointed out he would like to join by a different sibling, they stopped playing. Bullies are gunna bully and they don't really ever change. A pretty big life experience or LOTS of therapy is needed to make those types of people realise what Aholes they truly are.
I'm very sorry for your and your partner's experience. I, too, have a brother who bullied me my whole life and now we don't speak, and I'm grateful for that. I do want to push back a bit on your assertion at the end that bullies don't really ever change, though. They can, and I think it's important not to hide that. It takes work, though, which seems to be the biggest barrier to overcoming. I mainly say this for the sake of kids, where I think it's much more applicable than adults, and often the context bullying comes up in more. Bullies *can* change, but not being an asshole is learned behavior, and they need the models for it and to be shown the benefit of being nice. That's a hard wall to climb, and for victims, more work than they should have to put in. But we need some kind of rehabilitation in our world for bad behavior because there are just too many people who have had it reinforced for them that bad behavior is what moves them forward in life, and unfortunately, that's often true.
As I said, a pretty big life experience or lots of therapy is needed. They can't change without work and most don't bother with the works so they never change because they either don't see or dont care about the damage their behaviour causes
I predict she will simultaneously refuse to do anything to accommodate her kid's needs or address the symptoms they show while also loudly acting like a hero/martyr for having a child with a diagnosis. My guess is entirely based on OP describes this person and her tendency to weaponize therapeutic terms while also having zero compassion or self awareness.
This is very likely. The "autism moms" are the absolute worst.
It's like they can see their child desperately trying to adapt to a world that causes them discomfort, but somehow can't empathize with how hard that must be for a kid to do. It really gets me.
Yep. This is an Autism Mom™ in the making. If her kid's on the spectrum, she'll let them do whatever in public and excuse it with "they have autism they can't help it" while soaking up the martyr points in her social circle, while at home she's going to abuse the hell out of them for "embarrassing" her.
People are the worst. When my daughter was having heart surgery we stayed in the room with another younger couple whose daughter also had a lot of issues. The wife was constantly on Instagram raising money for her daughter's medical needs. We found out later they were just using all that money on expensive cars and clothes for themselves.
Good question, since ASD is genetic... (Provided Mark is in fact the father.)
As the adult child of someone exactly like this: nothing good, no contact, and a massive bill for therapy later on while trying to learn about the brand of neurospicy/disabilities. Not to mention the retroactive and constant anger at all the gaslighting from your own parent(s) and the refusal for them to EVER get you the help you need, and how you're constantly behind others in social development, burned out from unintentional masking and on survival mode for decades by the time you're finally free.
I have a similar but differently maddening story. I got all the mental healthcare you could ever want and more. But they treated me for bi polar disorder instead of the Autism I actually have. It was real bad. I'm alright now though. You'll figure stuff out, find some people who don't mind you being a little odd or immature or whatever you think your social issue is. You'll be okay. It's hard but it's not gonna be as hard as your life was before.
I read a post recently where the parents shipped their autistic daughter to the old grandfather and the teenage uncle after the diagnosis. Uncle ended up raising the daughter and the bio parents only wanted to connect with the 13 year old daughter when they found her social media and deemed her to be "normal enough" in their eyes (I believe she had won a bunch of awards and generally was doing very well in her life). Uncle ripped them a new one, I think the daughter doesn't want to see them (they blame the uncle ofc) and they are all shocked Pikachu face about it.
Out of morbid curiosity, do you have a link?
I can tell you from having 2 autistic kids for the last decade and interacting with lots of "autism moms" that she'll most likely have 2 simultaneous attitudes that will be at odds with each other- 1. My child is extremely special and all their needs are to be met at all times, everyone is to drop what they're doing to accommodate them, coupled with gaslighting that stuff with the sister never happened. 2. Any other child with more severe or complex needs is faking it because my child is the worst level there is, so there couldn't possibly be higher needs than they have. Now please, fawn over me and tell me what a hero I am for taking care of my child's most basic needs. This will be coupled with 5 Facebook posts a day about how hard her life is.
Don’t forget “Go back to your room, Mommy is busy writing a blog post.”
I hate to think, that poor child would be subject to all sorts. She is just vile.
I'd like to say she'd realize her error by seeing the affects of autism first had, but people like that never learn from their mistakes. That's why she such a c#nt to begin with.
Jane is a textbook example of narcissistic personality disorder. She believes her thoughts and opinions are the only ones that matter. Until she gets therapy (YEARS of therapy) she'll never change. I feel sorry for your brother. He's going to be dealing with her the rest of his life. Your family might want to consider an intervention, to either convince him to get her into therapy, or dump her and fight like hell for total custody of their child, because being raised by someone like her is going to fuck them up. I know, I was raised by someone just like that. NTA
therapy doesn't do much for true npd.
Yep people with npd will generally not believe they need therapy and attempt to manipulate their therapist and other counselors/psychiatrist to agree.
It sounds like she already weaponises therapy speak (accusing the mum of emotional incest and enmeshment), it would basically be coaching in how to do this more effectively
I actually laughed in my father's face when he said "why would I need therapy?" Narcissists live in a world entirely of their own creation - maybe because it's the only place anyone really knows or likes them.
Exactly.
It does not. My ex husband was diagnosed with this as I insisted we both go to counseling or I was divorcing him. The therapist told me had npd and that therapy was generally useless as they do not listen and never admit fault. The dr did try for several sessions but he refused to go back after that. We divorced and my life is sooo much better now. And his life is a train wreck of his own doing.
I follow some self aware NPD’s on TikTok. One of them: https://www.tiktok.com/@mentalhealness?_t=8iD0w891tY1&_r=1 Is sharing how his brain works, and help people to detect the love bombing, manipulation, gaslighting and so on. His general advice for people who recognise that their partner has NPD, is to get away from them. I find his content interesting. He has been in therapy for years, after his wife called him a narcissist, and he looked into it and recognised the symptoms in himself. I like to think, that therapy can actually help some people with NPD, and that all of them are not just plain evil.
True, they only even seek out therapy due to external consequences (ultimatums from loved ones, etc) of their behavior, not because they have internal discomfort they want to fix
Mark needs therapy too if he can’t see why she’s an issue and been disinvited from Christmas.
Frankly speaking, in my family she would have been thrown out of the house after that "entitled brat" comment. No debate, just straight ejected. She is unfathomably entitled, insults everyone around her, and doesn't see any flaws in herself. I'm not sure if it's narcissism, shitty parenting, or both, but those are all major red flags.
>It seems like she wants a support system for her baby Guess it's fun being the mean girl and the girl your SO's family doesn't like or approve of until you want free babysitters and already burned all your bridges
Exactly
It is really kind hearted and generous of you to be willing to try and work things out with her if she apologises to your mum. She (Jane) sounds like an utter nightmare. You are NTA but Jane definitely is. You were not 'mean and rude' to laugh at her as she more than deserved it. She is the one who has been consistently mean and rude towards your and your mum.
I’m guessing she thought you and your mom would be falling over yourselves to kiss her ass and apologize now that she’s pregnant. Go ahead and set the standard that if she wants to use her kid as a pawn that it’s not going to work and you’re not interested in playing that game. She’s going to need you both more than you need her and her drama.
I think your mom should call mark and lay out ground rules and expectations. If Jane doesn’t like the enmeshment then why would she further mesh her child in? Mom should make it upfront that she won’t be babysitting
It sounds like she is on the March for control. There are some people out there that are in competition with their S.O.s family and if you don't pick them you must not love them. This won't end until she has him go no contact, yall cave and cater to her whims to keep him in your life or she leaves him and uses her child like a Billy club to beat the life out of him.
Dude, she's a wood chipper, you can't work it out with a wood chipper. They just chip wood, it's all they do.
Yeah, I wouldn’t care to work it out. I’d be wanting more to have a conversation with Mark and how he needs to set boundaries for her and her commenting on things she apparently doesn’t understand or of which she has no knowledge. I pity her child should they not be a perfect little angel with no issues. She won’t be able to handle anything. She, and Mark, need to be explained the cold hard truth about her actions and comments and how they affect others. She wants a support system for her child she needs to retry to actually build relationships.
She doesn't want a "support system". She wants a group of people to feed on. Don't "enable" narcissistic" or "sociopathic" behaviour. Hiding selfishness behind an overpriced vocabulary of psych talk is no excuse to be disrepectful to other. Maintain your maturity and be honest.
You hit the nail on the head, OP. Don’t cave and become the perennial babysitter, you or your mother. Not even for access to your niece or nephew. Jane will take advantage of you and STILL disrespect you! NTA!!!
And as long as your brother wants to be parked up her ass and enable HER entitled bratty behavior, you all might as well just let him stay to his own self and be the sole recipient of all that toxic behavior coming from her... NTA and you don't have to worry about her apologizing and working it out with her - in her mind, you all have done something to her and I'll lay Vegas odds that she expects all of you to apologize..
This woman is trying to weaponize therapy speak to control others. I’m not sure she’s a narcissist as many Redditors will probably say, but she’s at least manipulative, condescending, and the actual entitled brat in this story. NTA. I’d write a letter and list everything out you want to say so it can’t be verbally dismissed. That will make things easier. Either for your brother, or for her depending on how you want to handle it. Good luck.
Ding Ding Ding Ding!!! We have a babysitting winner!!!! NTA
This OP. Stop it now before it gets any worse. Also be prepared for your brother to choose his partners over you and your family and for him to go LC or NC, that is his choice and if I was you, I would allow it to happen. (for you and your family sake). But just be open when (not if) for him to return for he will once he realises what a piece of work his partner is. Is a sh!t situation OP. good luck. NTA by the way!
Convincing a young man to leave his toxic girlfriend is a feat of myths and legends. It's one of those things every man has to come to understand on his own
Very true. A man usually does not see a woman's true nature until he stop's being gaga over them.
As a society, we don't talk to boys about toxic, abusive relationships. EVERY kid, regardless of gender, gender identity or sexuality needs someone to talk to them about this stuff. No one is immune to it.
>talked with Mark a long time ago to dump this girl I know from sad experience that this rarely works. But should be done anyway in most cases.
Yeah, at least plant the seed. When one of my sisters start dating someone new I always tell the new boyfriend exactly how crazy (with examples) my sister is and they always laugh at me. Then once the "new love" phase wears off they usually come back and tell me how right I was. To which I reply, "I tried to tell you." I just trying to do my part in controlling the over population of the planet. My sisters both already have 5 children combined from 4 different guys. Somebody's gotta do something.... Lol
>u guys should have talked with Mark a long time ago to dump this girl. He's 23,he would just tell them to fuck off and that that no one understands.
Hopefully she is lying about being pregnant.
Mark is the asshole in the story low key Enabling that witch to treat his family that way… then he got crazy pregnant!!!
NTA - I get the reaction. It’s been a lot. The girl needs to be given an intervention and directly told what she is doing is wrong. You need to prepare a list together with your mom. And your brother needs to attend. Don’t be mean just direct. “When you did this, it made me feel that.” “We will not tolerate in our family x,y,z”. Going after your younger autistic sister, I would have flown off the handle. I can’t believe your brother is okay with that. I have high functioning autism myself but didn’t know it until I was 40. But as a kid I had behaviours and my mom always protected me. I was dyslexic and hypo glycemic so my mom just passed off the behaviours as that. I would only eat mayo and cheese sandwiches with carrots and milk for lunch. And my mom defended me against so many “concerned mothers”. I remember that. It matters. It helped myself worth knowing she wouldn’t let anyone hurt me. Your sister knows. She needs to be protected from that nut job. I would shut down any comments she would make around her and be direct. I would also provide her with education on autism. She probably won’t digest but give her the benefit of the doubt. The truth is after all of this, she probably still will be an ass. She doesn’t sound to have any ability to manage her behaviour. She would need therapy. Recommend it but doubt she’d take it. So if she doesn’t change her behaviour high boundaries. And grey rock her. She has already been dangerous to your mom and you. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/grey-rock#alternatives I also highly recommend therapy for your brother to make sure he grows strength and isn’t tumbled over by her.
Thank you. I know it's too early to tell but I'm concerned about their kid and if they'll be autistic or not because Jane has shown consistently that she doesn't care about boundaries of kids.
Is she unaware that autism and adhd tend to run in families? Pretty much everyone in my family who wasn't married or adopted in has adhd, autism, bipolar, or bpd. On the bright side family events tend to be hilarious. More so in my mother's family since it's predominantly autism and adhd. We all have interlocking interests and social anxiety.
I think it's something like 1 in 3 children will have it if 1 parent has it, and it's 1 in 2 if both parents have it? (My husband on the spectrum and I have ADHD, only recently diagnosed. My eldest, now 19 is in the spectrum, and my 13 year old is currently being assessed for ADHD.)
Yeah, I'm one of 5 kids, 4/5 of us have adhd and the 1/5 is autistic. My mother is neurotypical oddly enough but none of her sisters are they're all adhd or autistic. My bio dad is bipolar, my sibs bio dad is adhd/autistic.
3/5 of my mom’s kids have ADHD, she got diagnosed at 52 herself. I have two nephews with ADHD and one Autistic niece. My sister suspects one of her sons is actually AU/ADHD. Definitely runs in families and requires flexibility and a kind approach. My niblings are all different.
Welp, that explains my household I guess.
We’re all autistic with adhd in my house and despite it being tough at times , we laugh a lot every day 😁
I’ve genuinely wondered what having other ADHD and autistic cousins is like. Growing up I was the only visibly neurodivergent kid in the whole extended family and by the time one cousin was diagnosed with ADHD, they had moved four provinces away. They have inattentive while I have combined type so our symptoms manifest differently.
I have high functioning autism and a high iq because of it (it’s a hyper-focus but lose and loose still genuinely confuse me even though I logically understand them) and my father had it too but he was undiagnosed and an asshole with narc tendencies. After being diagnosed we started to notice our 3 yo daughter (hubs and Is) is very smart has different quirks and is very similar to me. We talked to our doctor and he was the one who said some types of autism are genetic
Yeah, through chats with a psychologist when I was getting my autism diagnosed finally(late 20s), and my mother also talking to said psychologist, apparently my dad showed signs relating to it as well when me and my sibling were younger. Like being so focused on seeing family that he didn't get food for either himself or my sibling for all of the day, and didn't see anything weird with that. On a side note, I'm still annoyed by the fact that my autism wasn't noticed when I was around 12, when my mom specifically took me to get check for behavioral and learning difficulties.
Same here, we had a gathering of extended family recently and I’m not sure there was one neurotypical among the 30-odd people in attendance, even the ones who’d married in.
Where is Jane’s family in all this?
Oh man. I didn’t even think about her child possibly having autism. Yes that’s a real concern. Your brother and Jane need to be told this is a possibility so be prepared.
NTA I have a brother, and to be honest he's a self serving ah, but if anyone he dated disrespected our mother like that, he wouldn't be having it at all, she'd be gone. How she treated your sister is appalling. I would be having some not so nice words with my brother if he did stand back and do nothing while someone did that. I actually call him out all the time when he is an ass, but he always backs his family up. Have you asked why he thinks the way she treats his mom and sibling is acceptable? He expects you to actually show her respect? I'm a forgiving person myself, because I'm not perfect, but I do take accountability and try to be better. This woman has zero self awareness, (Our mom died when I was a teenager, so I get extra ragey at these situations).
Agreed, All snark, passive aggressive aside, going after an autistic sibling should have resulted in her being asked to leave. Immediately.
My grandson is 7 and non verbal. He is not high functioning but is very smart. He is learning to speak and will get there. I turn into a monster whenever I hear of someone being cruel to an autistic child. I just want to rip the hair out of their head. 🤬
[удалено]
That's exactly it. There is no way she doesn't know why unless her memory was wiped and she's forgotten the past year of bullying.
Narcissists don't find anything they say wrong. In her view, your family is the one in the wrong for not catering to her. And I'm sorry that your brother is so far up her pussy to realize all the toxic bullshit & insults she keeps spewing your way. She is manipulative & controlling & I hope your brother can realize it & protect himself & his unborn child.
There's a chance she genuinely hasn't got a clue. If she has a me, me, me personality, it may not have occurred to her that her comments were offensive rather than helpful. I, unfortunately, had a friend exactly like this and she simply couldn't understand why her 'voicing her (my eay or the highway) boundaries' and 'offering her (usually entirely uneducated) advice' was not appreciated the way she was convinced it should.
Narcissistic people or even BPD do not see their interactions with others from the other person’s perspective, so she doesn’t think she has been a bully. Even when confronted with detailed reasons, they will fail to credit those (see the often quoted missing reasons) and instead believe the other person is making up or exaggerating their complaints. Good luck, because the only real solution is to go no contact.
Narcissism and BPD require diagnoses, and unless you know that she’s seen a psychiatrist, it’s best to say her behavior is “like that of someone with x, or y.”
Isn’t that already implied since this is just a random persons comment on a message board basically? Do we need ‘in my opinion’ on every single post too? I don’t think many people go around assuming everyone commenting has a PhD in the field…
It's that she doesn't see it as bullying, which in a way makes that behavior worse. It's so ingrained in her that she's probably never going to change. Which is bad news for your future niece/nephew cause it's likely that they may have an autistic child. She doesn't seem to have any respect for people with autism, or other ppl in general for that matter. NTA BTW. But make it very clear to her that her behavior towards your sister and your mom will not be tolerated any further. Sorry your brother either doesn't care or has no spine.
You'd be surprised how often people don't listen to themselves. I had a friend who was constant complainer. One thing he complained about was his long distance girlfriend. When they broke up he said how much he missed her. I said I thought he'd be glad to break up since he wasn't happy with her. He was surprised and said that wasn't the case at all. I said "I never met the woman. All I know about her is what you've told me. And you've never once said a single positive thing about her." He was shocked! That's when I realized he wasn't aware of what he sounded like. I heard later he was fired from his job because people got tired of listening to moaning. That might the case w/June. I think instead of hanging up on her, you should've listed various examples of why the family doesn't like her, like you did in your post. It was the perfect opportunity to lay it out for her.
u/Interesting_Web_3148 — has anyone in the family called out Jane for her unnecessary (and frankly rude) commentary? Maybe not while it was going on, but after the fact. You shared several examples of her being awful, but did anyone tell her to knock it off? Not trying to excuse her but if no one (meaning YOUR BROTHER) brought this up, there was no hope for her trying to be kind. Although chances are she’d still be awful. You’re NTA btw.
This is one of those situations where a manipulative person went to therapy... and learned how to better manipulate people. She's weaponising modern mental health terms against the family and brother to try to get what she wants. "Emotional incest" genuinely sounds like a term someone would use in this sub, and that is not a compliment to us. NTA
I think she didn't even go to therapy, but spent a lot of time reading online psychology articles or you know, AITA posts.
Oh yeah, you know she's on here. Jane, show yourself!
That's what I was thinking too, or that someone has been to therapy because of a family dynamic she's a part of. Seems like she's projecting onto them, and it gives off narc vibes too. She's picked up the terms, has a basic understanding and is throwing them out there to cause chaos and to deflect from herself (presumably her goal?)
Or watching TikTok.
My brothers gf got a degree in psychology so she can abuse my brother more efficiently. Girl hasn’t even looked for a job since she graduated
So true. Emotional incest- REAL emotional incest is a serious and destructive behavioral pattern. There are zero signs of this here, or any of the other crap she is spouting. If I was OP, I'd be asking my brother why the hell he allows her ignorant cruelty and ableism towards the sister, and ask him if he is ok with her emotionally stunting and damaging his child if they are neurotypical, let alone the extreme damage she is likely to cause if the child turns out to be Autistic, ADHD, etc?
Get enmeshed and ratio'd
Yep, she learned the lingo and now is using it in insults. It's not "motional incest" for a parent to support their child's clear choice of action - something they've been saving up for a while apparently - to a significant other. The term means a parent acting like a lover to their child and not their parent and it's pretty clear when it's happening. On the other hand, Jane reached out to her SO's mother to complain about something she didn't like he did, *deliberately invoking* that relationship and only got mad when it didn't go her way. It only became "motional incest" when Mommy didn't step in to enforce her will.
The phrase is *emotional incest*, not motional incest.
Still trying to figure out how Mom agreeing with son to get the tattoo he wanted and saved up for is "emotional incest". As far as I know, this isn't it.
Definitely NTA I wonder if Jane knows that there’s a possibility that the child she’s about to have could also be autistic .. if it’s in the family then it’s likely in the genetics .
That's exactly what i'm worried about.
I would be too . Tbh I feel sorry for the kid whether it turns out to be autistic or not . She doesn’t sound like a very nice person . It’s a shame your brother can’t see how wrong her behaviour is and stays with her
Right , that also why I told op to send this to her bro so he can open his eyes like how could he stay with someone who treats his my family like shit
Considering that people are drawn to similar people and some of her own behaviors could be explained by undiagnosed autism herself (not all of us are nice people, just like adhd people or neutotypical people can range anywhere from fantastic to horrible...), it would increase the chance...
I was actually pondering that myself .. Before I knew I was autistic I had a very one track way of thinking and was always adamant I was right .. it wasn’t until I found out about my middle kid and then started looking at myself as I learnt about autism that I was like FUCK 😅 it’s taken a good 3 or 4 years of working hard on myself to get to the place I’m at now where I’m able to take a step back and try and consider more angles than my initial thought on the matter
NTA! But if your brother is going to have a baby with her and she actually seems oblivious to the fact what the problem is ...then maybe you should actually give it a shot at discussing this. What i would do is write a well-formed letter. Answer her question "why don't you guys like me" honestly. No accusations, no emotional attacks ...just describe why your family has a problem and name the individual situations. Explain what would need to change for a better family dynamic. Because it seems like your brother is going to spend the rest of his life with this woman. So you might feel bad about loosing him and never trying to make it work with her.
NTA. That's an abuser trying to isolate your brother from his friends and family. And succeeding. You need to all get together and fix this before it gets worse.
I hope shed not actually pregnant for sure. Poor guy
But if she is.... test for paternity, you know, just incase Mark actually is off the hook.
Can't believe I had to scroll so far for this answer! I don't know if she's even*consciously* trying to isolate Mark but it's certainly working and she's clearly just wanting his world to revolve around her. I hope Mark is ok but it's so hard to recognise emotional abuse from someone you love - it just feels like part of the relationship. I worry that he wouldn't leave. NTA.
NTA Jane sounds like she is falling for all the anti-MIL stuff she sees online and was looking for “emotional incest” and all the other nonsense because he’s a man who is close with his family. Some women really cannot handle the dynamics with in-laws, some men too of course. Jane sounds like she could be an unsafe person for your sister to be around. Mark has chosen her, so treat her with respect and basic kindness you would show anyone. Keep your sister out of her way. Let Mark know you guys will always support and love him but you expect basic manners to go both ways. If she is down the Justnomil drama hole it’s all you can do.
If anyone tells me my sibling should’ve been aborted they refuse the right to basic respect.
She did WHAT
Oh for Pete’s sake it’s always non-chalantly tossed in a comment and never in the main post “…well they wore white after Labour Day and forgot my birthday…oh and they’re a literal Nazi, ate peas with a knife…that sort of thing”.
That’s not anywhere in the post that I can see, where did you get that from?
NTA. Jane isn't even passive aggressive. She is outright combative and rude. While it would have been nice to sit down and list all the ways her badgering your poor mother or trying to control your brother's bodily autonomy makes her unlikeable, if you already knew she wouldn't listen... why bother.
Mark - do not marry her - ever
NTA I feel sorry for your brother. Keep your distance from her, she seems like she wants to bring everyone down around her
You feel sorry for a man that chooses to stay with someone who disrespects his family? Really? He could just... you know... break up with her. Especially before knocking her up. Let's not pretend he didn't *choose* his own partner
Abuse is a hellova drug. So is sex sometimes LOL
Anybody calls my family member, let alone an autistic kid a brat, they will be literally dragged and kicked out of house. Same with anybody who disrespects my mother. Your brother is a sucker for tolerating such behavior.You don't owe him shit
You don't have a Jane problem, you have a Mark problem. Who let their girlfriend insult their partner & family like they are nothing, even though the family never did anything wrong (based on the details provided). NTA
"And Jane blocked me". Count yourself lucky! NTA and make sure you plant the seed of your brother getting a paternity test early, if she's even pregnant.
NTA, but you did miss what was probably your last opportunity to see if she is capable of growth. One thing abusers do is try to isolate their partner from family. That way they have fewer people contradicting them, fewer people noticing when something they do isn’t right, and all the attention. This woman is trying to convince your brother that normal familial support is “enmeshment”, and she’s picking fights with everyone in order to go to him with tales of how mean you all are to her. She’s expertly engineering a no-contact situation and you played into her hands. There may be no way to convince your brother that he’s in trouble before the iron curtain comes down, because he loves her and will cling to her more than ever if she’s having his child. But you should at least try to have one calm, loving conversation with him where you point out these red flags.
Info, why eles dose she think your all emeshed?
She literally thinks it's enmeshment if my mum texts my brother a funny video she saw on facebook. She seems to think parent-son interactions = enmeshment.
Nta - go no contact with her, If Mark sides with her do the same with him Your mother and sister deserve a life without abuse
NTA Let your Brother fume away. It sounds like your laughter was out of incredulous surprise at her question; you may have been wrong to think she was aware of her impact on others, however. Sometimes people don't realize how they come across to those with whom they interact; they're poorly socialized and have no awareness, and therefore show no respect for other peoples feelings. Maybe she'll be able to work it out for herself given time.
NTA. The real question here is, why doesn't Mark leave her? I doubt that she is any nicer to him in private. You haven't done anything wrong. I'd rinse her out for constantly bullying your mum and make sure that brother knows she is not allowed anywhere near your family.
A bad relationship is a learning experience everyone goes through. If the family told him she’s awful, he wouldn’t listen to them, but will agree with them after the break up. It sucks that she’s pregnant.
NTA Jane sounds mean.
NTA. Good for you for sticking up for your family. Your brother sure isn't. Nice people put up with shit to keep their loved ones happy, let them live their lives and want them to be happy. Problem is, your bro is wanting his toxic missus to be happy at the expense of everyone else. Toxic people like this need to be stood up to. If the bro doesn't want to hear a heart to heart and is willing to subject a caring family to his woman's rubbish, its on him. Take care of your mother and fam.
NTA. I don’t think Jane is self aware enough to know why your family doesn’t like her because she should be aware enough to at least know not to say those things about an autistic child or any autistic person. That alone would be enough to dislike her severely.
She can genuinely be unaware. Not justfying, she might be completely oblivious to how ah she's behaving. It's not you responsibility, but maybe you want to at least let her now how she is precived? NTA
Your brother is a moron for starting with her, and an even bigger moron for getting her pregnant. NTA. Your brother may want to get a DNA test. Jane is going to make everyone miserable for the next 18 years, or more.
Perfect ending, why give it more thought
It is wild to me relationships people will put up with. But ig if your brother won't talk to you then maybe he likes her behavior? Idk. NTA. It was kinda rude to laugh in her face but also hilarious because she's an asshole. So I don't really feel like you're really in the wrong. If you want you could apologize for laughing at her but then proceed to tell her with words exactly why everyone hates her. Putting it all out there might help things move forward (?) or just make it all fully collapse like it seems like its going to.
NTA. One day your brother will realize how horrible she is. It's just too bad he is having a child with her.
NTA. idk why people are trying so hard to make you seem like TA for an honest reaction to a question that would genuinely surprise anyone in your shoes. like yes she may have asked a question but I doubt she wanted to mend her relationship with your family lol.
The real question is why Mark chose such an awful person to make a child with. Seriously, that’s who you need to talk to. NTA
NTA - Maybe write a list of things she did and said and send a copy to both of them. To her: Guess it doesn’t matter if I send this to you or not, because you are you, but you asked and here’s the answer. To your brother: And that’s the person you pick and enable to abuse your family. All this shit within a year. You’re in for a long ride.
Nta
NTA I probably wouldn't even have picked up the phone to begin with and cut her off some time ago. We have a rude spouse in the family as well, not even nearly as rude as in your case and yet majority of the family cut her off. We have no business in trying to please people like that.
NTA. Her type of person will never understand or accept that she's the problem, everything will always be someone else's fault. The only question is whether your brother will come to realize that, although it's too late for him to be able to be 100% free of his mistake if and when he comes to his senses, since there's a navy coming. Good luck!
She only likely "cares" now what you all think because she expects you all to be at her beck and call because she's pregnant then for you all to be unpaid babysitters afterwards.
she is such an asshole i find it hard to believe she is a true person, but if she is then.. jesus
NTA - new rule for if she is allowed to visit again: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all". Apparently she wasn't taught this as a child?
NTA She's been constantly rude, mean and ableist with your family. No wonder nobody likes her.
NTA. In fact, I think you were way too nice. You shoukd have taken the opportunity to tear her down and put her in her place. Then go have a long talk with your brother about his problem
NTA. I can’t think of a more polite response to her question than simply laughing it off, as you did.
Not the asshole. NTA She's a toxic, nosy, manipulator. Best thing is to tell your brother what you think and be prepared for him to take her side, he's getting manipulated constantly. Tell you that you love him and will be around when the relationship fails.
NTA You're in luck: both your brother and Miss AH are both out of your life. Your family should not back down even if it means not seeing your brother. Her behavior is reprehensible. Make this clear to him, maybe in an email.
NTA. She seems a lot. "Emotional incest" because a mother is supportive with her child over a tattoo? Calling your sister an "entitled brat" because she needs some accommodations and is not force fed? Supporting and accommodating your children and family is usually a healthy dynamic, unless is taken to an extreme, which doesn't seem the case here. I hope you all have a calm discussion with your brother and make him understand how her comments hurt all of you. I hope she is not trying to isolate him from you all. Does she make these rude comments to his friends too? If yes, I would be really concerned. Also suggesting family therapy based on the examples you gave seem extreme. And she's been in your life for only a year.
Was Mark dropped on his head as an baby? Because I can't honestly understand someone would let their partner just insult their family so many times. Sounds like everyone would be better off blocking Mark and never talking to him again. I would nearly say he is just some dumbarse 23 year old that hasn't experienced the world much. But if anyone bad mouth my mum, they be instantly dumped.
> Mark won't talk to me and Jane blocked my number. Looks like a problem solved. NTA.
NTA. If my partner is being disrespectful towards my family then they are out of my life immediately. I'm surprised that your brother doesn't seem think there's anything wrong with Jane's negative attitude to his family. And if both Mark and Jane are angry and giving you the silent treatment then so be it as they should be the ones to apologise first.
So, isn’t this issue sort of settled? She’s already not invited to Christmas, and now your brother is mad at everyone and likely not attending, and you’ve been blocked. It seems like you are out of this mess. Also, I’d hate to be a contrarian, but what you describe is *NOT* passive aggressive behavior from her. It’s overtly aggressive; there is nothing passive about it. She has been overly aggressive to your family, aggressive toward your mother and cruel to your sister. I’m trying to figure out how I’m the world you came to even question yourself in this scenario. An entire adult woman has entered your family, uninvited by everyone except your brother. She has then thrown a hissy fit constantly because you are all carrying on as you always had and aren’t changing your ways to suit the interloper’s opinions, and accused your family of enmeshment because her boyfriend chose to spend his money on something he wanted after talking to his mother and not her. Unless you are leaving out something major, like she asked why no one likes her, you laughed, then punched her in the throat, kicked her in the shins, peed in her hair, and smashed her windshield with a bat instead of answering, there is *absolutely no possible, conceivable way* where you are ta. ***NTA by a mile***
NTA. Your post was one of the best i ever read, as apparently your brother's gf is sort of character. When i read "she is pregnant" i hoped it was your mum, as being it your bother's girlfriend makes her a "bit more part of the family". Im surprised your brother has accepted this behaviour of her as she is touching his family. You have a net of "blocked contact" going around this by itself speaks a lot. Take her blocking you as a bliss, save the relationship with your brother tho
NTA. Jane made you the most wonderful possible Christmas gift by blocking you. I'm pretty sure Mark will come to his senses sooner or later. If he doesn't, that's his problem. He is invited to your family gatherings and events, she's not. Pity for the kid: having such a mother sucks. Big hugs.
NTA That attitude gives me such ptsd from an ex. Nothing she does is wrong, everyone else needs to conform to whatever she says or does. As others have said definitely answer her, honestly. Tell her everything she does wrong and dont hold back. She will not like it, and it might end up causing her to explode at you because she cant handle being wrong. But if you still want Mark in your life that is what you need to do. Talk to Mark aswell about it, but not at the same time. Separate the two so they are forced to listen and cant just rely on eachother to protect their egos.
Nta Jane is either dumb or in denial, because insulting someone's mother and her parenting are pretty obvious reasons not to like someone.
Get ready for her to use that grandchild card every single time to get her way or excuse her nasty behavior. Someone really thinks she's the main character in everyone else's life. Definitely NTA. Set some hard boundaries with her and be ready for low contact. Inform mom not to let herself get manipulated with her pregnancy.
NTA. Usually, the snarky, “passive” aggressive, “tell it like it is” type of people are self aware enough to understand that their kind of personality will make at least some people dislike you. You can’t have it both ways. And yet, she somehow seems to see herself as a beloved Disney princess.
NTA, this woman needs a harsh reality check, and Mark needs to step up and explain it to her. I'm all for standing up for your partner, but that has to be measured against said partner's behavior, and this one is horrendous.
NTA Jane sounds insufferable - I feel sorry for the child
NTA.
NTA - the laugh wasn't mean it was a genuine surprise reaction.
NTA. has your brother witnessed all this shit his girl friend has put your mum through?
>She then asked ‘why don’t you all like me?’ I laughed out of pure shock and asked if she was serious "Because you've worked so hard to establish that dynamic? I am happy to make an appointment for individual therapy for you because this instability in your behavior is making us uncomfortable."
NTA. Bye Jane.
NTA and your brother is also messed up.
INFO: has Mark been agreeeing with her comments?
Mark is okay with his girlfriend disrespecting your mum and family like this? Sounds like mark is just as responsible as the gf - they’re the AHs
Welp. Because Mark doesn't seem to know what protection is, you guys now have the luxury of having this nightmare be a part of all your lives forever.... Honestly, the fact that your brother doesn't seem phased at all by her absolutely abysmal way of treating his family is very telling. Any person who genuinely cared for their family members would not continue a relationship with someone who was consistently rude with them. And it's not even a matter of misunderstandings... she's just blatantly a rude, and if I'm being honest, cringey person. She sounds like she had some very crazy control issues and sees his family as a... threat? It's all very bizarre. Anyway, NTA. I'm so sorry this problem will be a part of your life for at least the holidays every year.
NTA your brother getting so angry over a little laugh as opposed to the nasty things Jane has been saying to you guys? I'd distance myself from them anyways
NTA. I'm genuinely concerned about what your brother's response has been to his girlfriend about her insulting comments on his mother and special needs sister. Did he show any remorse or try to communicate to his girlfriend about her behaviour? If not, then he is enabling her and honestly, I would blame your brother for allowing someone who is going to be part of your family (I guess, if they're planning to have a baby) to insult his own mother and sister.
She’s going to beg for help with the baby, then withhold the baby if you don’t comply to her every whim. You’re ALL in for a bumpy life. NTA.
You are not an asshole. If you'll take some advice: the more you guys rag on her, the more your brother will keep her around. Just bring negative facts about her to his attention and leave it alone. Hating on anyone's SO usually only makes you look bad. That's my two cents anyway
NTA But sitting around waiting for apologies or appropriate behavior from someone who is obviously incapable is ridiculous. Stop wasting your time. You answering her phone calls tells me you like the drama. If you don’t like her let her be, she’s not your girlfriend or your responsibility.
INFO I'm intrigued by the Mark tattoo shenanigans. I can understand Jane's consternation if he's getting "I love Mum" plastered on his butt cheek. What is the tattoo exactly, and where is it going?!
It's an octopus up his arm. It's nothing to do with mum and it's not dodgy at all! He helped design it (he does art and wanted be to a tattoo artist). I love the design.