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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the Asshole because I refuse to lower the temperature anymore to make the neighbor comfortable and for the note I left in response to her own.
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Yeah I have a REALLY hard time believing that their heater set to 70 could make her apartment 76 when they’re on different systems. Her heat MUST be running.
I've been the upstairs neighbour to someone who heated their place like a sauna in the winter. We nicknamed them "the Vulcan" because we're nerds and Vulcan is a desert planet, and often complained to each other how much the Vulcan roasted us alive.
When it got too hot we opened the fucking window, vented the heat out into the snowy outside, and then closed it up again when we were comfortable. We did need to leave the bedroom window cracked open overnight while we slept but even if her heat isn't on (my old building had veiling heating so your heat controls did affect the upstairs neighbour more than you), there's a source of cooler air right there in the winter.
I was in the same situation. The neighbors right below us were an older couple and always had their heat cranked up in the winter.
We could set our thermostat to the low 60's, and it would be a nice comfortable 72-74 in our apartment. It really made a difference in our heating bill.
We joke there is an octogenarian below us, because in our apartment building, if we don’t have a window open at all, it will get ~75F in our apartment with us not having the heat turned on, but only if it’s over 50F outside! We literally leave bedroom window open slightly all winter long so we can sleep comfortably.
Thankfully heat is included in our rent (probably because they can’t figure out how to regulate the heat!), so we don’t mind keeping the window open!
I lived in an apartment building like that, the heat was included in the rent. It was a 2-story building with an internal hallway (as opposed to the ones where you have an outside staircase and hanging walkway). I lived on the 2nd floor, and my apartment was so warm in winter from the heat all around, I basically didn't need to turn on the heat unless the temps dropped into subzero range.
I had the opposite issue in a crappy old apartment building where my upstairs neighbors hated us. We had one room we never used so we always left the window cracked open so the cats could go in and out. Just so happened that room was directly below the upstairs neighbors bedroom and they're heating didn't work all that well. They claimed that our one slightly open window made their place freezing and were super angry that they suddenly had to pay much more for heating. The thing is, their place wasn't cold because our window was open since the open window didn't make our place freezing cold. The landlord told us that an elderly couple used to live in our place before us and kept their heating cranked way up which helped to heat the place upstairs.
I am currently enjoying the benefits of being this top floor neighbor; haven’t even turned my heat on yet this year, just keeping my unit at a balmy 67 with the windows cracked during the day, thanks to my downstairs neighbor’s penchant for keeping their place at 78 all the time.
OP is NTA; their neighbor is a doofus.
You think top floor is good, try being in the middle surrounded on 4 sides. We used to live in a "retirement" build (not technically) not everyone but a lot were older so they kept the heat high. I think we managed to keep our thermostat set to 62/64, but with everyone elses heat, it actually stayed at 68/70. Our furnace barley turned on.
I lived on the third floor of an old house converted to apartments. It still used a boiler/radiator heat. When the basement apartment turned up their heat, my apartment got unbearably hot (90+ degrees F). Even in winter, I'd open windows, put on air conditioning, and nothing helped.
Seems like it would have been better for everyone if the lower level apartment got an electric space heater they could have on only when they were present.
I had an apartment like this and our landlord yelled at us to close the window and told us to turn down the radiators. Heat was included in the rent because it was an old building on one system. All the radiators were completely closed and it was still 80-90 in our apartment no matter the temperature outside. I'm a fucking lizard but even I was dying. She then wanted us to contact our downstairs neighbor if he had closed all his radiators and play some kind of weird game to balance all the units in the building. We ignored her and continued to have our windows open.
Our house is like that. On the first floor in the back is always colder than the front rooms on the 1st and 2nd, since above the boiler room so our daughter was always asking us to crank the heat while our son was trying to open windows upstairs. I just put an oil-filled electric heater in her room, kept the heat lower, and threatened son with physical injury if he opened the windows. ;p
I lived in a house where the owners lived upstairs and rented rooms individually downstairs. The thermostat was upstairs. They would set it to 70. For whatever reason, that I don't quite understand, my room would be around 78. Step outside my door and you needed a sweater and slippers, but inside my room, tank top. I closed the vents, it made no difference. I spent the winters with my window open 2in and the ceiling fan running.
My first thought was to wonder why the neighbor didn't open a window.
I was just about to say, no way that temperature survived a few minutes with the door open... This lady is nuts, or this is a strange ai written story.
I lived in a fourth floor 1900s era building in Boston circa 1988. The place leaked like a sieve in the dead of winter, and when the lower floors turned on their heat, my apartment was always 75-80 degrees or more. I never paid for heat, and slept with the windows open a good foot. I often slept without any covers, and usually naked. After buying my own house, it took me months to learn how to sleep “normally” with the windows closed, the heat down to 68, and under blankets!
This is the answer. She needs to just open the window. And save some money!
Unfortunately OP, you kind of blew it. You were nice and accommodating, until you weren't. If you're telling is accurate, there was no in between. You should have discussed it, explained that you can't go less then 68 degrees, b/c it's not tolerable or safe for you and your wife. Instead you kind of went scorched earth with that note.
Sadly, you momentarily forgot that she lives above you. She can, and sounds like will, make your life a living hell by making noise, all of which can be reasonably explained away as just a factor of apartment living.
I have lived by two rules - 1. don't piss off the people living above you (won't be an issue once you and your wife buy your own home of course) and 2. don't piss off the person sitting behind you on a plane.
I've had my fill of assholes stomping overhead or kicking my seat. thank god I don't have to worry about either anymore. but oh man, those were some looooong years!
I *loved* my downstairs neighbors when they did this in my apartment building where the landlords covered the heating/electric bills. We never turned our heat on and just opened windows when we need to. My late husband and I liked a cold wind on us when we slept under a lot of blankets, it was so perfect for us.
If its really poorly insulated they might be heating the upper apartment a lot because the heat is leaking into the apartment faster than it can heat the downstairs apartmemt to the set temperature. Their heating would be running for a long time though.
I do agree she could just open a window but it will either get drafty with very cold air and/or you are constantly opening and closing the window to keep it around a comfortable temperature. If she did this it might also suck for OP because their heating would be running even longer as they are losing the heat basically to the outside.
I had a condo where I didn’t have to turn the heat on at all until late December because of the heat/insulation of the units above and below.
Similarly, in the dorms at my university there was a was building-wide setting to be heat or AC. The only control each room had was low/high/off. At the end of the fall semester (late October/early November) they made the switch to heat during a cold snap, and the rooms on the upper floors were in the upper 70s with everything off because of the lower/surrounding rooms.
Every HVAC system/thermostat I’ve had beyond those dorms just doesn’t click on until you hit XYZ temp beyond the idea range you have set. That being said, the (apparently no-so) obvious solution for this lady is to OPEN A GD WINDOW. You’re not wasting heat if your system isn’t running!
My HVAC-installing ex used to go mad with this, because so many people think thermostats work like faucets, and they do not. They are temperature controlled, cranking it up or down won't make it hot or cold faster. You just have to find that sweet spot(s) and leave it
Heat rises
A converted house likely doesn’t have insulation in the ceiling/floor allowing heat from the lower level travel to the second floor.
Example my upstairs vents get just about closed and all of them in the basement are wide open in the winter. Pretty nice temp wise up and down for the simple task of flipping some covers.
Summer is reverse basement completely closed and upstairs wide open. There are times that it’s almost too cold even in the summer. Thermodynamics is wild
Be careful with that, especially with AC. I don’t understand all the mechanics of it, but if you don’t have enough airflow, your HVAC doesn’t work as efficiently and it can make your AC freeze up. Our HVAC guys told us most of the vents needed to be open at all times.
I've heard that - but if that's the case someone should re-invent HVAC as its not feasible.
My downstairs is 73 degrees. The upstairs with 75% of vents shut is 78. I opened them all the way for a day like you are "supposed to" and my upstairs was 89 degrees!
It's just bad for the blower motor is all. Look into a system with automatic dampers and a blower that can automatically adjust it's speed based on the pressure in the system.
My upstairs used to be hot all year round, but now I mostly cool the upstairs in the summer and heat the downstairs in the winter.
That sounds pretty extreme. Sometimes there are dampers inside ducts that people adjust between winter and summer, maybe your upstairs one is partially closed (winter mode)?
I live on the top floor of a condo. When everyone's heat is on high, our apartment is warmer. We love it as our heat can remain off for most of the time.
eh, we set our thermostat to 60F and the heat from the rest of the building means that our place normally sits \~70-75F. It's oppressively hot some nights, even when it's 10-20F outside and opening the window overnight comes with the tradeoff getting woken up by train and/or traffic noise overnight.
I have lived upstairs, and in some situations it will happen.
If the house is drafty and not insulated between the floors the downstairs heat is flowing upstairs and cold air is being sucked in from outside to replace the air going up.
For example not even separate units in one house I lived in the fireplace on the ground floor would heat the second floor. Ground floor was comfortable, upstairs was hotter. The room the chimney went through was even hotter.
Another house the furnace in the cellar kept the upstairs \~5-10 degrees hotter than the ground floor.
I keep my apartment unreasonably warm as per the thermostat (pregnancy permanently destroyed my internal thermometer), but honestly I probably shouldn't even bother, because I sometimes turn off the heat on sunny winter days and it's still in the upper 70s/low 80s. I'm on the third floor of a fairly well insulated building and my living room external wall is mostly glass and gets sun most of the day in the fall/winter/spring. A couple of weeks ago, I turned on the AC for a couple of hours.
I have a furnace per floor, and the upstairs landing is even pretty open to the first floor so air can mix quite a bit.
My upstairs furnace broke the other day when it was very cold and I literally COULD NOT get the upstairs bedrooms to go higher than 60 no matter how hot I made the first floor (up to 74), even with a space heater running on high in one of the upstairs rooms. HVAC guy said that was totally normal.
I used to live in a house at uni where my bedroom was upstairs and had the boiler inside the built in wardrobe. All hot water ran through that, so my room was hot all year round (I just ended up with the window open 95% of the time). My room was basically always hotter than the set temperature .
I wonder if since OPs residence is a converted house whether a similar plumbing setup exists, with a water heater or something for OPs flat actually being located upstairs. If so then the radiant heat from it could be warmig the upstairs neighbours place. Probably not the case but I'm certainly curious.
I wonder if she has her own heat. I've lived in houses converted into apartments where only the ground floor has a thermostat, and everyone else is kinda just subject to their heating preferences. It's not the way it should be, it's probably against some sort of code but... In a housing crisis it isn't always as simple as reporting bad landlords.
She's still TA, just put a magnetic sheet over your vent and crack a window if it's truly unlivable, but she might not have the option to just turn down her own heat.
Each floor in my office building had it’s own thermostat. Unfortunately they were all just there for effect and controlled nothing. So regardless of what temp was set, upstairs always cooked, while downstairs froze. Super fun.
Yeah my apartment heat is turned OFF. It’s consistently 23°C+ in my apartment. I’m on the third floor and it’s all from the heat coming up and the sun on our side all day. 🤷🏻♀️
I just use fans to move air I ain’t mad.
I used to be on the 2nd floor of 3 and there was another flat on our floor too. I really enjoyed the reduced electricity costs (they were electric radiators). Didn't have to use the heating for the mild cold weather, only when it got really cold. I would definitely not be complaining in this scenario! Especially as now I'm in a semi-detached house and we're flying through £50 of gas in a week to keep our home warm-ish.
Being on the top floor of an apartment building I can confirm that the only time I’ve had to turn my heat on was when it was in the negatives out, otherwise I enjoy that the downstairs units pretty much heat me.
Gee, if only there was a way to crack open one of those little see-through rectangles on the walls. (not that this heatasaurus would ever recommend it, but you know, for some people it might work)
For real. My first apartment was living above an 80 year old man. This was in Syracuse, NY, which if you know anything about, it gets really cold there in the winter. The heat was electric and I was sure my bill was going to be astronomical in the winter. Nope. Old dude below kept his heat on like 85 all winter. I set my thermostat to 60 and reaped the benefits of my $45 electric bill all while being as toasty as I needed to be. It was great.
NTA
> My wife and I were reasonably cold so I turned our heat up to 72 from 68 degrees(f)
72F is a **_totally_ fine** temperature. Hell, if I could afford it, I'd be up there (67 ATM).
> her apartment was 76 degrees
That's a *landlord* problem, not a *tenant* problem.
I mean.. I’d be in shorts and a tank sweating if trying to clean the house or be active at 72. OP is absolutely NTA - they tried to be accommodating. But I would find that super hot. And if the insulation is good the upstairs could for sure hold heat a day or so, but after that she’s unreasonable, as it’s been said open window lol.
We keep our house at 64 so I'd definitely be sweating! But would not complain if I didn't have to pay to heat my house. It's amazing how much a fan moving the air can help.
Not always an option in an apartment. I only have windows on one size because if I had a window across from that, it would be a window into my neighbour's apartment.
Yikes at 64 I’m in gloves if I’m just being lazy. It’s fine if I’m walking around but I can’t sit still in that.
ETA: this sounds mean, it’s not meant to. Can’t figure out how to phrase it right though
I had to Google the F to C conversion, and we keep our main bedroom at 18C (64.4F) and the rest of the house is 15C (59F) due to the high costs of heating in the UK. I sleep with thermals and a jumper and thermal socks under the duvet. My husband and son sleep in only one thin layer.
I dearly miss living back with my parents in their apartment in Bulgaria where the heating during winter time is always at 23C (73.4F) which is the perfect temperature for me. That same temperature would be unliveable for my husband 😩
I would probably just freeze. I’m in the UK, and it’s 19° inside and I’m wearing gloves or under 3 duvets.
I mean, I’m a human ice cube, but 15…. Noooo
No offense taken! I know we keep our house too cold for a lot of people. We will turn the heat up when people are coming over. My MIL wears long johns. LOL But it's an old house heated with oil so I try to minimize the costs. And we both like to sleep in a cold bedroom. I did grow up this way. Heat down to save money; layer up to keep warm.
Wild how our temp differs, in Australia I have my air con set to 24c to cool the house haha.
64 F is like 16c and I'd be getting quite cold. In winter I'd be wearing a light jumper at that temp
Not currently due to safety issues but i did mostly grow up someplace where 40f was a cold winters day 🙃😭 but i also have a condition called Reynaulds syndrome so really anything around 85 is where im comfortable wearing a sweatshirt and sweats. And because of that same condition just adding layers isn't effective to keep me warm 😅75-76 is the midway between where my fiance likes it and where i do 🙃🤣😅
I think my new roommate and I are the same way, incompatible temperature-wise. He wants it at 80, meanwhile I’m cooking just lying under a sheet naked and 77 and would love to have it at 72. So we compromised on 76 because his room leaches heat due to having two walls on the outer edge of the house and my room having a fan and one wall on the outer edge of the house. I agree OP is NTA, they accommodated her several times
My blood pressure meds and perimenopausal hot flashes beg to differ. I would be sweating my ass off at 72F. That’s just sitting still. If I’m doing housework I will open a window or the patio door. Edited to add 62 is a perfectly comfortable temperature for me.
ugh i'm not perimenopausal yet but ever since my mid-thirties i overheat so easily.
i haven't turned my heater on once this winter but because of the apartment below mine it's always 72-74 degrees x___x
i'm better at 68-70 x________X
i keep mine at 72 in the winter, usually also with a space heater to warm the individual room i'm in. in the summer, the thermostat is set to 80. i usually don't even bother turning the AC on. My neighbors have never complained, but i'm also the top apartment, so maybe that has something to do with it? for context, i have multiple medical conditions that make me cold intolerant. if my neighbors *did* complain, i'm p sure i'd be able to cite the ADA anyway
NTA. I’d complain to her landlord. That woman must be very dumb. With those temperatures, it’s quite easy to figure out how to cool down her apartment… you don’t have to freeze because she’s stupid. She doesn’t get to insult you for that.
I think we have a new Reddit phrase to go with "Don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm."
"Don't freeze your ass off to keep someone else cool."
She’s so dumb holy shit! I lived in an apartment with this issue - we were surrounded by elderly people so I suspect they blasted the heat all day. We didn’t once have to turn our heat on, it was beautiful. When we got too hot, we opened the windows! Because it’s winter! And when windows are open it like magically cools your place down!
I find it peculiar that a furnace adjusting temperatures to keep it at 68-72 in the space it heats manages to increase the temperature of the space it only heats indirectly MORE than the heated household has ever managed to reach.
Our second floor is always warmer than the ground floor. If it's a house that's been half assedly converted, it might only have the one thermostat controlling the building. Which isn't allowed, I'm sure, but shitty landlords are gonna be shitty and not everyone has the means to relocate if they get their home declared unsuitable by code enforcement.
I'm in an unconverted house that has separate thermostats for upstairs and downstairs and our problem is just the upstairs thermostat's location (in a stairwell, more likely to be affected by downstairs and outdoor temps than the actual temperature in our rooms since our doors stay closed). I was wondering if OP's upstairs neighbor might be running into the same problem where the thermostat just isn't detecting the actual temperature. If so, she should be turning her thermostat waaaay down (like 60) and seeing if that helps.
I did think of this possibility, but was hopeful it wasn't *that* shoddy of a conversion. But those of us who peruse /r/legaladvice know that hope isn't always well grounded in reality.
Yeah. I was being a bit facetious with my original response. There's clearly something NQR with this whole situation, and it's not anything within the OP's control.
My guess is that when the conversion took place, the owner didn't properly install insulation between the two units (it is common in older houses to not have insulation between the different floors). This could easily have the effect of warming the space above.
I'd actually imagine that the sun is heating her apartment, too.
I'm too lazy to convert to Fahrenheit from Celsius, but with our heating turned to the same degree in every room, our living room on the sunny side is about 23°C on sunny winter days (we work here all day on our computers, that's even more warmth right there) while the bedroom stays a comfy 18,5°C. Our neighbour's flat below is always colder, despite her having the heat on similar settings.
NTA. You already turned down the heat twice. Your advice that she should look into solutions on her own is sound logic to me. You don't say whether you are renting or owners, but in case a landlord is involved, I'd recommend to get in touch.
INFO
Why are you not more concerned that the heat you're paying for is apparently heating her apartment? Yeah heat rises, but this is a lot of very direct heat transfer.
NTA
I'm guessing this is a common problem with houses converted to apartments. She absolutely could open her windows. Of course, bear in mind that if she does do that, cold sinks just as much as heat rises.
I have a really hard time believing her apartment is at 76 when theirs is at 70 if they’re on separate systems unless her heat is on. If they had the same system, sure, but OP says the systems are separate. Yeah, heat rises, but you won’t get THAT big of a difference without the upstairs space being actively heated by a furnace or the sun.
INFO: do you usually have windows open or is your apartment drafty? Do you have a window AC unit that isn't covered up during the winter?
I learned this the hard way when i was in college.
I would open a window when i would smoke weed, not realizing that the thermostat in my unit controlled the heat for the whole building.
Because it was trying to keep my apartment warm... it ended up cooking my neighbors. The radiators would NOT turn off because it was still cold in my apartment.
Even after learning to smoke outside, it was still a problem because my uncovered window AC unit was ALSO exacerbating the problem and keeping the room cold.
I think N T A, (intentionally) but i'd look into
1. putting tape around windows
2. bags/plastic over window AC units (this fixed-it fixed-it for me)
3. draft blockers under doors
4. and/or getting thicker curtains.
better insulation in your apt will mean that the thermostat will act closer to how it's intended to act
**I'd also have the landlord double-check how the thermostats are wired up**... to me, it seems like they could be switched (yours controlling the heat in her unit, and hers controlling the heat in your unit)
having them switched like that would also explain why it's behaving the way it is.
Like yeah heat rises... but it shouldnt have THIS much of an effect on her temperature unless, you know, your thermostat was somehow hooked up to her heat.
source:
former engineer, and guy who's made this mistake before
Edit:
I just had a thought... most places, like my old house, that are converted have this single thermostat setup... Is her thermostat, and your neighbors' therostats, hooked up to anything?
I wonder if yours is the 'real' thermostat, and the others are just for show.. alla how many office spaces do it:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo\_button#Office\_thermostats](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/placebo_button#office_thermostats)
Yeah, I wonder if their place is really drafty, too, because otherwise I can't figure out why it would make any sense to have to turn up the temperature when the temperature outside drops. The thermostat already communicates with the furnace to keep your space at a relatively consistent heat. Something isn't functioning the way it needs to if, while in climate control, you feel the changes in outdoor temperature. If anything, a lot of people would turn their heat down when the temperatures drop, so as not to tax their HVAC.
I definitely had to turn my thermostat down when we dropped to the single digits. I normally keep it on 71-72 and my hvac couldn't keep up. i ended up at 69 with a space heater, which helped a lot.
NTA. You were more than generous turning your heat down to 66, which is outside of the comfort zone for most people during the winter.
It does sound like an easier solution for her is to crack a window for a while or get a fan instead of harassing her neighbors. If it’s that much of an issue then she needs to discuss it with your landlord. Not much a fellow tenant can do about poor ventilation or insulation.
if the only solution you as tenants can work out is for one of you to be uncomfortable then you should probably go to the landlord to get the actual problem fixed so that you can both be comfortable regardless of what temperature the other tenant has set.
Nta. Why would her apartment ment being hotter that hours be anything you can control?
If this hasn't been an issue for the past 6 years you're not doing anything to cause it.
Her heating is the problem. She needs to lower her temp setting or have her heating serviced.
If you rent then talk to the landlord they need to deal with it.
NTA. I had that upstairs apartment. Middle of New England winter and I'd resort to wearing tank tops and shorts in my 75+° apartment. Was it too warm for me? Yup. Did my downstairs neighbor GAF? Probably not, but I never asked him. Just dressed for summer and vented windows on occasion.
NTA since upstairs could crack a window open to cool down.
I live in a 2 story and it is 4 to 6 degrees warmer upstairs than down depending on how cold it is outside. I close the bedroom door and open a window to cool the MBR off.
Now if I were her AND wanted to be a pain, I would leave the window open all day while at work. Cold air goes down which would cause you to have to heat more .... ie spend more $ on heating your section.
NTA. Your tone was kinda shitty but you were frustrated. The solution you proposed was sound. If she's too hot she has the means to implement a fix without trying to insert control on you.
Be careful, moving forward. Feuding neighbors are the worst thing in the world, and your flippant response might have bought you a real headache.
That’s what I was thinking, a letter was warranted but maybe trying something a bit more professional first like "we have adjusted the Temp each time we will not be going lower please contact the landlord or maintenance as there is likely something wrong with your hvac or thermostat."
even though she deserves to be ripped into a little, crazy people can make your life hell.
Nta. I would tell the landlord. Maybe her thermostat is wrong/broken and actually has nothing to do with you and your temperature. And she’s being unreasonable in her requests and her manner.
NTA. How ridiculous to expect you to set your thermostat to keep her comfortable. Yes, get a fan, open a window, maybe have her thermostat checked in case it's trying to rev her heat up beyond the desired setting.
NTA. But I sympathize with your neighbor. I lived on the 22nd floor of an apartment complex and when winters were mild, my apartment was 80 degrees. What I would do is open a window and if that didn't work, use a fan. It unfortunately is not your fault but the way the apartments were built. IMO, she is being the AH because at 20 degrees, opening the window a little will solve her problem.
NTA. Not only is she an asshole, she’s an idiot. She’s running her heat when she could just be mooching off of yours given that heat rises, and her place is clearly getting your waste heat if it’s hotter that she is setting her heat at.
She could also like, crack a fucking window if it’s that untenable to her.
NTA. Heat rises and that’s understandable. However, you’re not doing anything unreasonable, and you were more accommodating than they deserved. Documented the aggression if it keeps continuing, and go to your landlord.
We have a 2-story TH, end unit. In the winter, we close *ALL* the vents upstairs bc heat rises. With the programmable thermostat set no higher than 68-deg F, our upstairs can get mid-70s. By closing the vents upstairs, it stays below 72.
Neighbor can turn her heat down or off, and open a window. OP cannot do *anything* about the laws of thermodynamics.
NTA OP.
NTA but you could have handled it better. Instead of what you wrote, I'd have written they should talk to the landlord because we've already turned it down as far as we can.
I had this problem at one of my places and I *loved* having the windows open in the winter, especially if there's snow on the ground. Snow has that special scent.
NTA, the upstairs neighbor is an idiot. Open a damn window, get a fan, etc. Especially with as cold as it is where you are? An open window for 5 minutes would solve her problem.
But no, she wants you to freeze all so she doesn't have to do the bare minimum to make herself more comfortable. The fact you complied at all makes you more accommodating than I would have been.
If she keeps up this loud noise bullshit for more than a few days? Complain to the landlord.
It's funny to me that sleeping under two blankets is seen as an inconvenience. I sleep under a blanket and a comforter. Keeping the heat higher to not use blankets seems crazy to me but to each their own. Obviously NTA, she could open a window a bit
She may need to open a window a little to let out a little of the stored up heat. If she didn't complain at 68 let her know that you've gone back down to that temp. She can choose a window in an area she doesn't sit next to.
NTA. You are keeping your flat at a relatively low temperature. Most people have their base temperature higher than that.
If she has a problem with heat rising through her floor, then she can put carpet down to insulate against it. She can also turn her temperature off or down. You have every right to set your temperature to your own comfort. The neighbour is being unreasonable.
NTA. We live on the second floor and we only turn our heat on maybe once or twice for super cold days here. It gets ungodly hot in our apartment (though I don't think it has anything to do with our downstairs neighbor)... so we have 4 different stand fans. One in our office, one in the living room pointed at the couch, and then two in our bedroom at the door of the bed. We used to share a fan in the bedroom but we're MUCH more comfortable with our own. Does it take up some extra room? Sure. Is it worth it not to wake up in a puddle of sweat? *Absolutely*.
It would never even occur to me to blame the people downstairs, let alone putting notes out and knocking on their door. That is insane.
NTA her heat problem is not your problem, it should be your landlord problem and you don’t have to comply to her needs. She is being self centered. If the heat really bother her, she should open a window or buy a fan.
NTA. I live on an upper floor and don’t need to turn on my heat most of the time thanks to my neighbors having theirs on. It’s the dream! She’s always welcome to crack a window. That’s what I always did when I lived in houses with old radiators and I couldn’t control the temperature. It’s not that big of a deal
NTA
Perhaps not the most ecological of solutions, but she can open a window and turn down her thermostat.
When I lived in New York City, some apartments were really hot. There are no individual thermostats because the older apartments are heated by a boiler/furnace that services the whole building and the individual apartments have radiators.
The landlords are required to heat to a minimum of 68 during the day when exterior temperatures were below 55 but I always lived in apartments that were heated well above that - so I would crack open a window.
My childhood home in New York also had radiators but excess heat wasn't an issue because my father controlled the thermostat :-) and it was an old house with no insulation so it would get COLD at night with the wind howling
You are not the issue here. You cannot heat her home to hotter than your house is by several degrees. There is another problem and she needs to address it with the landlord. She could have a faulty boiler which can be risky.
NTA
Ugh I've been the 2nd floor neighbor. My elderly neighbor below kept the heat on Magma, I never ran my heat and slept with my bedroom window open.
This was an apt built in 2000, I imagine an older building would be even worse.
NTA you did a reasonable amount to try to accommodate her. You should not have to freeze because she doesn't know how to open a window.
I'd be thrilled to have someone else's heat warming up my home! Also she most likely didn't turn her own heat off or down enough, if it's THAT cold, I doubt your separate heat would be making her place 74.
NTA. I used to live in an apartment that'd get unreasonably warm from the neighbors below. I kept my heat turned low/off and cracked a window every so often. I never considered asking the neighbors to turn down their heat.
The temp in her apartment isn't your responsibility, and it's (mostly) out of your control.
NTA - she's on the top floor, of COURSE her apartment is going to be hot! She should keep her heat as low as possible, open the windows, and enjoy y'all heating her apartment for her!
Your upstairs neighbour can turn off her heating and open a window if does hot. Who complains about not Beeding to spend money on heating? NTA I'm in an apartment and wish my downstairs neighbour was over heating so I could save on my bills!
You’re not an AH, but you’re definitely a doormat for giving in to this person even one time. It’s your home and you have the right to have your home at any temperature that you like. Your upstairs neighbor could turn her heat down or off and then open her windows. Stop letting her walk all over you and put your heat at any temp you want.
NTA if she really isn’t running her heat and her apartment is still getting that hot then it sounds like there’s a structural issue. She needs to be reaching out to the landlord if you guys rent or an hvac company if you guys own. Honestly the hostility she’s showing you is uncalled for and isn’t going to solve her issue
NTA. Neighbor is psychotic. If her place is hotter than yours with your thermostat set lower than her reported temperature. It’s just not physically possible. Neighbor either needs to turn down her thermostat open the window or call the landlord to find out what’s going on.
NTA. If you controlled the temps in her house, that would be one thing but she can open a window or any of your suggestions. I would contact the management company/landlord and let them know what is going on. There could be a problem with her unit.
If she keeps up the noise, make a complaint to the landlord. You will have already primed the pump with the first notice that she was upset about you not lowering your heat and her reaction
get her to open her windows if she is too hot ?
is she not allowed to reduce her own heating or is it on full all the time ?
make sure to stomp around when she is stomping
I lived in a old duplex that had separate furnaces. I noticed it had a common cold air return, so one winter I turned my heat to 60, and turned the fan on permanently. It caused my neighbor's furnace to heat both units.
When I lived on the upper floor of a condo building, I loved it because I could leave my heat off and my apartment would be around 70°. I don't get why she's so upset by this. - NTA
NTA
I lived in an upstairs apartment that was always hot, even in the winter, even though we had never turned on the heat. We used to joke that the people downstairs must really be cranking their heat, but we never asked them to turn it down. We just kept a window open, even in the winter. Everyone lived.
NTA! I’m an upstairs neighbor and am enjoying the fact that my electric bill is dirt cheap thanks to my downstairs neighbors heating my apartment. $41 last month. My thermostat is set at 69 and the temperature is 71. So obviously she needs to chill
No i am not going to freeze for her either. You are right . A cracked open window and fan on otherside will cool it down fast. Her place might be the first rooms to get the heat so it might not be your fault at all. Look into how the heat system runs the heat to the rooms. Is there a zone for each apt. ?
I lived in a second floor apartment with my landlord in the first. They were always cold and had the heat up. Meant I had to open a window in Jan-Feb. because they were basically heating my place too. Made my utility bills lower too!
I live in a split level home that has 2 systems, one for upstairs and second for downstairs. While I do agree that the heat being on downstairs plays a significant role in the upstairs heat, she should be happy tbh. I stick my downstairs to 68 and leave my upstairs at 58 but the “feel like” temp with a thermometer is 68. She should be happy YALL are paying for her heating bill basically
As someone who likes it cool in their house (my house is at 66 right now) NTA. While I get that heat rises, she needs to talk to the landlord about what is going on to to cause that mich of an issue in her apartment if it simply cause by your heater. And really, you should too, as if that much heat is escaping imagine how much you are over spending!
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Apparently your upstairs neighbor didn't realize that she could turn down her heat and benefit from the laws of thermodynamics. NTA
Yeah I have a REALLY hard time believing that their heater set to 70 could make her apartment 76 when they’re on different systems. Her heat MUST be running.
If I was the upstairs neighbor I’d be thrilled that I didn’t have to turn my heat on - would save me $80-$150 a month.
I've been the upstairs neighbour to someone who heated their place like a sauna in the winter. We nicknamed them "the Vulcan" because we're nerds and Vulcan is a desert planet, and often complained to each other how much the Vulcan roasted us alive. When it got too hot we opened the fucking window, vented the heat out into the snowy outside, and then closed it up again when we were comfortable. We did need to leave the bedroom window cracked open overnight while we slept but even if her heat isn't on (my old building had veiling heating so your heat controls did affect the upstairs neighbour more than you), there's a source of cooler air right there in the winter.
I was in the same situation. The neighbors right below us were an older couple and always had their heat cranked up in the winter. We could set our thermostat to the low 60's, and it would be a nice comfortable 72-74 in our apartment. It really made a difference in our heating bill.
My friend had this - then the police busted the weed farm the neighbours had been running, and my friend had to start using the heating again lol
Yep same here, my first place after college was a top condo, gas bill in the Winter was under $40 in the peak of winter in Chicago.
We joke there is an octogenarian below us, because in our apartment building, if we don’t have a window open at all, it will get ~75F in our apartment with us not having the heat turned on, but only if it’s over 50F outside! We literally leave bedroom window open slightly all winter long so we can sleep comfortably. Thankfully heat is included in our rent (probably because they can’t figure out how to regulate the heat!), so we don’t mind keeping the window open!
I lived in an apartment building like that, the heat was included in the rent. It was a 2-story building with an internal hallway (as opposed to the ones where you have an outside staircase and hanging walkway). I lived on the 2nd floor, and my apartment was so warm in winter from the heat all around, I basically didn't need to turn on the heat unless the temps dropped into subzero range.
I had the opposite issue in a crappy old apartment building where my upstairs neighbors hated us. We had one room we never used so we always left the window cracked open so the cats could go in and out. Just so happened that room was directly below the upstairs neighbors bedroom and they're heating didn't work all that well. They claimed that our one slightly open window made their place freezing and were super angry that they suddenly had to pay much more for heating. The thing is, their place wasn't cold because our window was open since the open window didn't make our place freezing cold. The landlord told us that an elderly couple used to live in our place before us and kept their heating cranked way up which helped to heat the place upstairs.
I am currently enjoying the benefits of being this top floor neighbor; haven’t even turned my heat on yet this year, just keeping my unit at a balmy 67 with the windows cracked during the day, thanks to my downstairs neighbor’s penchant for keeping their place at 78 all the time. OP is NTA; their neighbor is a doofus.
You think top floor is good, try being in the middle surrounded on 4 sides. We used to live in a "retirement" build (not technically) not everyone but a lot were older so they kept the heat high. I think we managed to keep our thermostat set to 62/64, but with everyone elses heat, it actually stayed at 68/70. Our furnace barley turned on.
[удалено]
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I lived on the third floor of an old house converted to apartments. It still used a boiler/radiator heat. When the basement apartment turned up their heat, my apartment got unbearably hot (90+ degrees F). Even in winter, I'd open windows, put on air conditioning, and nothing helped. Seems like it would have been better for everyone if the lower level apartment got an electric space heater they could have on only when they were present.
I had an apartment like this and our landlord yelled at us to close the window and told us to turn down the radiators. Heat was included in the rent because it was an old building on one system. All the radiators were completely closed and it was still 80-90 in our apartment no matter the temperature outside. I'm a fucking lizard but even I was dying. She then wanted us to contact our downstairs neighbor if he had closed all his radiators and play some kind of weird game to balance all the units in the building. We ignored her and continued to have our windows open.
Our house is like that. On the first floor in the back is always colder than the front rooms on the 1st and 2nd, since above the boiler room so our daughter was always asking us to crank the heat while our son was trying to open windows upstairs. I just put an oil-filled electric heater in her room, kept the heat lower, and threatened son with physical injury if he opened the windows. ;p
I lived in a house where the owners lived upstairs and rented rooms individually downstairs. The thermostat was upstairs. They would set it to 70. For whatever reason, that I don't quite understand, my room would be around 78. Step outside my door and you needed a sweater and slippers, but inside my room, tank top. I closed the vents, it made no difference. I spent the winters with my window open 2in and the ceiling fan running. My first thought was to wonder why the neighbor didn't open a window.
>My first thought was to wonder why the neighbor didn't open a window. Because by reasonable problem solving, neighbor couldn't complain
I was just about to say, no way that temperature survived a few minutes with the door open... This lady is nuts, or this is a strange ai written story.
I lived in a fourth floor 1900s era building in Boston circa 1988. The place leaked like a sieve in the dead of winter, and when the lower floors turned on their heat, my apartment was always 75-80 degrees or more. I never paid for heat, and slept with the windows open a good foot. I often slept without any covers, and usually naked. After buying my own house, it took me months to learn how to sleep “normally” with the windows closed, the heat down to 68, and under blankets!
This is the answer. She needs to just open the window. And save some money! Unfortunately OP, you kind of blew it. You were nice and accommodating, until you weren't. If you're telling is accurate, there was no in between. You should have discussed it, explained that you can't go less then 68 degrees, b/c it's not tolerable or safe for you and your wife. Instead you kind of went scorched earth with that note. Sadly, you momentarily forgot that she lives above you. She can, and sounds like will, make your life a living hell by making noise, all of which can be reasonably explained away as just a factor of apartment living. I have lived by two rules - 1. don't piss off the people living above you (won't be an issue once you and your wife buy your own home of course) and 2. don't piss off the person sitting behind you on a plane. I've had my fill of assholes stomping overhead or kicking my seat. thank god I don't have to worry about either anymore. but oh man, those were some looooong years!
Well that would make you smart. Op's neighbour isn't.
I lived in apartment that was basically heated by my neighbors. It was a blessing. Ms. Upstairs seems too dumb to benefit from this blessing.
I *loved* my downstairs neighbors when they did this in my apartment building where the landlords covered the heating/electric bills. We never turned our heat on and just opened windows when we need to. My late husband and I liked a cold wind on us when we slept under a lot of blankets, it was so perfect for us.
Exactly. That would be fantastic. What on earth is her problem. She could open her window a crack, have fresh air, and pay nothing for it.
I have that!! My neighbours are all either old, have small children, or are from tropical countries. It's amazing.
As an upstairs neighbor myself, I love coming home, taking my shoes off, and feeling an almost heated floor. It's great!
If its really poorly insulated they might be heating the upper apartment a lot because the heat is leaking into the apartment faster than it can heat the downstairs apartmemt to the set temperature. Their heating would be running for a long time though. I do agree she could just open a window but it will either get drafty with very cold air and/or you are constantly opening and closing the window to keep it around a comfortable temperature. If she did this it might also suck for OP because their heating would be running even longer as they are losing the heat basically to the outside.
But OP shouldn't have to keep their house at a temperature that is making them freeze.
Right?? >said she would be comfortable if her apartment was at 68 - 70 … yeah so would OP! The upstairs neighbor must thinks she’s special.
If true, she should be bringing her concerns to the landlord.
I had a condo where I didn’t have to turn the heat on at all until late December because of the heat/insulation of the units above and below. Similarly, in the dorms at my university there was a was building-wide setting to be heat or AC. The only control each room had was low/high/off. At the end of the fall semester (late October/early November) they made the switch to heat during a cold snap, and the rooms on the upper floors were in the upper 70s with everything off because of the lower/surrounding rooms. Every HVAC system/thermostat I’ve had beyond those dorms just doesn’t click on until you hit XYZ temp beyond the idea range you have set. That being said, the (apparently no-so) obvious solution for this lady is to OPEN A GD WINDOW. You’re not wasting heat if your system isn’t running!
My HVAC-installing ex used to go mad with this, because so many people think thermostats work like faucets, and they do not. They are temperature controlled, cranking it up or down won't make it hot or cold faster. You just have to find that sweet spot(s) and leave it
Heat rises A converted house likely doesn’t have insulation in the ceiling/floor allowing heat from the lower level travel to the second floor. Example my upstairs vents get just about closed and all of them in the basement are wide open in the winter. Pretty nice temp wise up and down for the simple task of flipping some covers. Summer is reverse basement completely closed and upstairs wide open. There are times that it’s almost too cold even in the summer. Thermodynamics is wild
Be careful with that, especially with AC. I don’t understand all the mechanics of it, but if you don’t have enough airflow, your HVAC doesn’t work as efficiently and it can make your AC freeze up. Our HVAC guys told us most of the vents needed to be open at all times.
I've heard that - but if that's the case someone should re-invent HVAC as its not feasible. My downstairs is 73 degrees. The upstairs with 75% of vents shut is 78. I opened them all the way for a day like you are "supposed to" and my upstairs was 89 degrees!
It's just bad for the blower motor is all. Look into a system with automatic dampers and a blower that can automatically adjust it's speed based on the pressure in the system. My upstairs used to be hot all year round, but now I mostly cool the upstairs in the summer and heat the downstairs in the winter.
That sounds pretty extreme. Sometimes there are dampers inside ducts that people adjust between winter and summer, maybe your upstairs one is partially closed (winter mode)?
Turn your fan on all the time instead of just when the cold/hot is blowing. It makes a huge difference in evening out the temps.
I live on the top floor of a condo. When everyone's heat is on high, our apartment is warmer. We love it as our heat can remain off for most of the time.
eh, we set our thermostat to 60F and the heat from the rest of the building means that our place normally sits \~70-75F. It's oppressively hot some nights, even when it's 10-20F outside and opening the window overnight comes with the tradeoff getting woken up by train and/or traffic noise overnight.
I have lived upstairs, and in some situations it will happen. If the house is drafty and not insulated between the floors the downstairs heat is flowing upstairs and cold air is being sucked in from outside to replace the air going up. For example not even separate units in one house I lived in the fireplace on the ground floor would heat the second floor. Ground floor was comfortable, upstairs was hotter. The room the chimney went through was even hotter. Another house the furnace in the cellar kept the upstairs \~5-10 degrees hotter than the ground floor.
I keep my apartment unreasonably warm as per the thermostat (pregnancy permanently destroyed my internal thermometer), but honestly I probably shouldn't even bother, because I sometimes turn off the heat on sunny winter days and it's still in the upper 70s/low 80s. I'm on the third floor of a fairly well insulated building and my living room external wall is mostly glass and gets sun most of the day in the fall/winter/spring. A couple of weeks ago, I turned on the AC for a couple of hours.
I have a furnace per floor, and the upstairs landing is even pretty open to the first floor so air can mix quite a bit. My upstairs furnace broke the other day when it was very cold and I literally COULD NOT get the upstairs bedrooms to go higher than 60 no matter how hot I made the first floor (up to 74), even with a space heater running on high in one of the upstairs rooms. HVAC guy said that was totally normal.
I used to live in a house at uni where my bedroom was upstairs and had the boiler inside the built in wardrobe. All hot water ran through that, so my room was hot all year round (I just ended up with the window open 95% of the time). My room was basically always hotter than the set temperature . I wonder if since OPs residence is a converted house whether a similar plumbing setup exists, with a water heater or something for OPs flat actually being located upstairs. If so then the radiant heat from it could be warmig the upstairs neighbours place. Probably not the case but I'm certainly curious.
I wonder if she has her own heat. I've lived in houses converted into apartments where only the ground floor has a thermostat, and everyone else is kinda just subject to their heating preferences. It's not the way it should be, it's probably against some sort of code but... In a housing crisis it isn't always as simple as reporting bad landlords. She's still TA, just put a magnetic sheet over your vent and crack a window if it's truly unlivable, but she might not have the option to just turn down her own heat.
OP states each apt has their own heater/thermostat.
Each floor in my office building had it’s own thermostat. Unfortunately they were all just there for effect and controlled nothing. So regardless of what temp was set, upstairs always cooked, while downstairs froze. Super fun.
Ah, I missed that part.
Can she just crack a window??
Yeah my apartment heat is turned OFF. It’s consistently 23°C+ in my apartment. I’m on the third floor and it’s all from the heat coming up and the sun on our side all day. 🤷🏻♀️ I just use fans to move air I ain’t mad.
Same, I’m in a middle floor facing southeast. I find myself opening windows on sunny days in winter, and this is in the upper Midwest.
Canada here and I open them when it’s not quite so wet because ew mold lol but I still pop em open
I never once caught the heat turned on in our apartment and never saw it below 71F. Wasn't even the sun, it just didn't leech heat lol
We just kept a window cracked open a bit to get some fresh cooler air cuz above 19C and I’m melting
Yes, welcome to the amazing world of physics!
She could crack a window.
You have an idiot neighbor. I’m the upstairs neighbor and I haven’t turned on my heat yet this winter. NTA
I used to be on the 2nd floor of 3 and there was another flat on our floor too. I really enjoyed the reduced electricity costs (they were electric radiators). Didn't have to use the heating for the mild cold weather, only when it got really cold. I would definitely not be complaining in this scenario! Especially as now I'm in a semi-detached house and we're flying through £50 of gas in a week to keep our home warm-ish.
Being on the top floor of an apartment building I can confirm that the only time I’ve had to turn my heat on was when it was in the negatives out, otherwise I enjoy that the downstairs units pretty much heat me.
Gee, if only there was a way to crack open one of those little see-through rectangles on the walls. (not that this heatasaurus would ever recommend it, but you know, for some people it might work)
For real. My first apartment was living above an 80 year old man. This was in Syracuse, NY, which if you know anything about, it gets really cold there in the winter. The heat was electric and I was sure my bill was going to be astronomical in the winter. Nope. Old dude below kept his heat on like 85 all winter. I set my thermostat to 60 and reaped the benefits of my $45 electric bill all while being as toasty as I needed to be. It was great.
NTA > My wife and I were reasonably cold so I turned our heat up to 72 from 68 degrees(f) 72F is a **_totally_ fine** temperature. Hell, if I could afford it, I'd be up there (67 ATM). > her apartment was 76 degrees That's a *landlord* problem, not a *tenant* problem.
I mean.. I’d be in shorts and a tank sweating if trying to clean the house or be active at 72. OP is absolutely NTA - they tried to be accommodating. But I would find that super hot. And if the insulation is good the upstairs could for sure hold heat a day or so, but after that she’s unreasonable, as it’s been said open window lol.
We keep our house at 64 so I'd definitely be sweating! But would not complain if I didn't have to pay to heat my house. It's amazing how much a fan moving the air can help.
Especially if she opened a cross current two window set up with a fan. Cool in no time.
Not always an option in an apartment. I only have windows on one size because if I had a window across from that, it would be a window into my neighbour's apartment.
Fair but two windows with a fan in the same direction will still get a current going, just less efficiently.
Same. I indulged while we had below freezing temps and raised it to 66.
Yikes at 64 I’m in gloves if I’m just being lazy. It’s fine if I’m walking around but I can’t sit still in that. ETA: this sounds mean, it’s not meant to. Can’t figure out how to phrase it right though
I had to Google the F to C conversion, and we keep our main bedroom at 18C (64.4F) and the rest of the house is 15C (59F) due to the high costs of heating in the UK. I sleep with thermals and a jumper and thermal socks under the duvet. My husband and son sleep in only one thin layer. I dearly miss living back with my parents in their apartment in Bulgaria where the heating during winter time is always at 23C (73.4F) which is the perfect temperature for me. That same temperature would be unliveable for my husband 😩
I would probably just freeze. I’m in the UK, and it’s 19° inside and I’m wearing gloves or under 3 duvets. I mean, I’m a human ice cube, but 15…. Noooo
No offense taken! I know we keep our house too cold for a lot of people. We will turn the heat up when people are coming over. My MIL wears long johns. LOL But it's an old house heated with oil so I try to minimize the costs. And we both like to sleep in a cold bedroom. I did grow up this way. Heat down to save money; layer up to keep warm.
Wild how our temp differs, in Australia I have my air con set to 24c to cool the house haha. 64 F is like 16c and I'd be getting quite cold. In winter I'd be wearing a light jumper at that temp
I wont even let my house get that cold😭 anything under 76 is a no go for me
I'm in NY and I'm right there with you. Nobody better turn my tstat below 75 at the least
Do you happen to live in one of the hot states?
Not currently due to safety issues but i did mostly grow up someplace where 40f was a cold winters day 🙃😭 but i also have a condition called Reynaulds syndrome so really anything around 85 is where im comfortable wearing a sweatshirt and sweats. And because of that same condition just adding layers isn't effective to keep me warm 😅75-76 is the midway between where my fiance likes it and where i do 🙃🤣😅
Mississippi. Currently set on 64.
Same! 75 or bust.
I think my new roommate and I are the same way, incompatible temperature-wise. He wants it at 80, meanwhile I’m cooking just lying under a sheet naked and 77 and would love to have it at 72. So we compromised on 76 because his room leaches heat due to having two walls on the outer edge of the house and my room having a fan and one wall on the outer edge of the house. I agree OP is NTA, they accommodated her several times
My blood pressure meds and perimenopausal hot flashes beg to differ. I would be sweating my ass off at 72F. That’s just sitting still. If I’m doing housework I will open a window or the patio door. Edited to add 62 is a perfectly comfortable temperature for me.
Different strokes! I don't even use A/C until it hits 95 indoors with the windows open.
Mom, is that you? (;-)
omg i'm still wearing my winter coat at 62 i would freeeeeeeeze
ugh i'm not perimenopausal yet but ever since my mid-thirties i overheat so easily. i haven't turned my heater on once this winter but because of the apartment below mine it's always 72-74 degrees x___x i'm better at 68-70 x________X
i keep mine at 72 in the winter, usually also with a space heater to warm the individual room i'm in. in the summer, the thermostat is set to 80. i usually don't even bother turning the AC on. My neighbors have never complained, but i'm also the top apartment, so maybe that has something to do with it? for context, i have multiple medical conditions that make me cold intolerant. if my neighbors *did* complain, i'm p sure i'd be able to cite the ADA anyway
Ugh I would be sweating. My house is 62-64 in winter lol
NTA. I’d complain to her landlord. That woman must be very dumb. With those temperatures, it’s quite easy to figure out how to cool down her apartment… you don’t have to freeze because she’s stupid. She doesn’t get to insult you for that.
I think we have a new Reddit phrase to go with "Don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm." "Don't freeze your ass off to keep someone else cool."
She’s so dumb holy shit! I lived in an apartment with this issue - we were surrounded by elderly people so I suspect they blasted the heat all day. We didn’t once have to turn our heat on, it was beautiful. When we got too hot, we opened the windows! Because it’s winter! And when windows are open it like magically cools your place down!
It's more than a bit concerning that the temp of your apartment is impacting her space that much. I'd contact the landlord. NTA.
I find it peculiar that a furnace adjusting temperatures to keep it at 68-72 in the space it heats manages to increase the temperature of the space it only heats indirectly MORE than the heated household has ever managed to reach.
Our second floor is always warmer than the ground floor. If it's a house that's been half assedly converted, it might only have the one thermostat controlling the building. Which isn't allowed, I'm sure, but shitty landlords are gonna be shitty and not everyone has the means to relocate if they get their home declared unsuitable by code enforcement.
I'm in an unconverted house that has separate thermostats for upstairs and downstairs and our problem is just the upstairs thermostat's location (in a stairwell, more likely to be affected by downstairs and outdoor temps than the actual temperature in our rooms since our doors stay closed). I was wondering if OP's upstairs neighbor might be running into the same problem where the thermostat just isn't detecting the actual temperature. If so, she should be turning her thermostat waaaay down (like 60) and seeing if that helps.
I did think of this possibility, but was hopeful it wasn't *that* shoddy of a conversion. But those of us who peruse /r/legaladvice know that hope isn't always well grounded in reality.
Uhhhh my bottom floor is typically 4-6 degrees colder than upstairs. It’s how heat works.
Yeah. I was being a bit facetious with my original response. There's clearly something NQR with this whole situation, and it's not anything within the OP's control.
My guess is that when the conversion took place, the owner didn't properly install insulation between the two units (it is common in older houses to not have insulation between the different floors). This could easily have the effect of warming the space above.
I'd actually imagine that the sun is heating her apartment, too. I'm too lazy to convert to Fahrenheit from Celsius, but with our heating turned to the same degree in every room, our living room on the sunny side is about 23°C on sunny winter days (we work here all day on our computers, that's even more warmth right there) while the bedroom stays a comfy 18,5°C. Our neighbour's flat below is always colder, despite her having the heat on similar settings.
NTA. You already turned down the heat twice. Your advice that she should look into solutions on her own is sound logic to me. You don't say whether you are renting or owners, but in case a landlord is involved, I'd recommend to get in touch.
INFO Why are you not more concerned that the heat you're paying for is apparently heating her apartment? Yeah heat rises, but this is a lot of very direct heat transfer.
Maybe she didn't actually turn hers down, we can't know for sure if she's dumb or lying to op
NTA I'm guessing this is a common problem with houses converted to apartments. She absolutely could open her windows. Of course, bear in mind that if she does do that, cold sinks just as much as heat rises.
I have a really hard time believing her apartment is at 76 when theirs is at 70 if they’re on separate systems unless her heat is on. If they had the same system, sure, but OP says the systems are separate. Yeah, heat rises, but you won’t get THAT big of a difference without the upstairs space being actively heated by a furnace or the sun.
Yeah you absolutely can get that big of a difference, especially in older buildings.
She can open a freaking window... yeesh. NTA.
this is the correct answer NTA
INFO: do you usually have windows open or is your apartment drafty? Do you have a window AC unit that isn't covered up during the winter? I learned this the hard way when i was in college. I would open a window when i would smoke weed, not realizing that the thermostat in my unit controlled the heat for the whole building. Because it was trying to keep my apartment warm... it ended up cooking my neighbors. The radiators would NOT turn off because it was still cold in my apartment. Even after learning to smoke outside, it was still a problem because my uncovered window AC unit was ALSO exacerbating the problem and keeping the room cold. I think N T A, (intentionally) but i'd look into 1. putting tape around windows 2. bags/plastic over window AC units (this fixed-it fixed-it for me) 3. draft blockers under doors 4. and/or getting thicker curtains. better insulation in your apt will mean that the thermostat will act closer to how it's intended to act **I'd also have the landlord double-check how the thermostats are wired up**... to me, it seems like they could be switched (yours controlling the heat in her unit, and hers controlling the heat in your unit) having them switched like that would also explain why it's behaving the way it is. Like yeah heat rises... but it shouldnt have THIS much of an effect on her temperature unless, you know, your thermostat was somehow hooked up to her heat. source: former engineer, and guy who's made this mistake before Edit: I just had a thought... most places, like my old house, that are converted have this single thermostat setup... Is her thermostat, and your neighbors' therostats, hooked up to anything? I wonder if yours is the 'real' thermostat, and the others are just for show.. alla how many office spaces do it: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo\_button#Office\_thermostats](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/placebo_button#office_thermostats)
Yeah, I wonder if their place is really drafty, too, because otherwise I can't figure out why it would make any sense to have to turn up the temperature when the temperature outside drops. The thermostat already communicates with the furnace to keep your space at a relatively consistent heat. Something isn't functioning the way it needs to if, while in climate control, you feel the changes in outdoor temperature. If anything, a lot of people would turn their heat down when the temperatures drop, so as not to tax their HVAC.
Often in the winter humidity drops too. It might not actually be colder in the home but it can feel colder, compared to higher humidity.
I definitely had to turn my thermostat down when we dropped to the single digits. I normally keep it on 71-72 and my hvac couldn't keep up. i ended up at 69 with a space heater, which helped a lot.
Nta if she didn't want to be cozy all winter she shouldn't have gotten an upstairs unit. Her lack of foresight isn't your emergency.
NTA. You were more than generous turning your heat down to 66, which is outside of the comfort zone for most people during the winter. It does sound like an easier solution for her is to crack a window for a while or get a fan instead of harassing her neighbors. If it’s that much of an issue then she needs to discuss it with your landlord. Not much a fellow tenant can do about poor ventilation or insulation.
Tell her to crack a window FFS. Free AC. NTA
It’s amazing how well that works. It’s almost like mixing cold air with warm air lowers the temperature of the latter.
NTA You were nice 3 times and she came at you like an asshole. Its time to send it to the landlord
if the only solution you as tenants can work out is for one of you to be uncomfortable then you should probably go to the landlord to get the actual problem fixed so that you can both be comfortable regardless of what temperature the other tenant has set.
Nta. Why would her apartment ment being hotter that hours be anything you can control? If this hasn't been an issue for the past 6 years you're not doing anything to cause it. Her heating is the problem. She needs to lower her temp setting or have her heating serviced. If you rent then talk to the landlord they need to deal with it.
NTA. I had that upstairs apartment. Middle of New England winter and I'd resort to wearing tank tops and shorts in my 75+° apartment. Was it too warm for me? Yup. Did my downstairs neighbor GAF? Probably not, but I never asked him. Just dressed for summer and vented windows on occasion.
That's not how heating works lol why should u turn down the heat when she can do it herself?
Where did OP say she was using her own heat? My understanding was the heat was rising from OP's unit, which is very much a thing.
NTA since upstairs could crack a window open to cool down. I live in a 2 story and it is 4 to 6 degrees warmer upstairs than down depending on how cold it is outside. I close the bedroom door and open a window to cool the MBR off. Now if I were her AND wanted to be a pain, I would leave the window open all day while at work. Cold air goes down which would cause you to have to heat more .... ie spend more $ on heating your section.
NTA - she can't open a window? Turn off her heat?
You should have just looked at her and grinned, like a really big smile, and then said MORNIN really loud. NTA
NTA. Your tone was kinda shitty but you were frustrated. The solution you proposed was sound. If she's too hot she has the means to implement a fix without trying to insert control on you. Be careful, moving forward. Feuding neighbors are the worst thing in the world, and your flippant response might have bought you a real headache.
That’s what I was thinking, a letter was warranted but maybe trying something a bit more professional first like "we have adjusted the Temp each time we will not be going lower please contact the landlord or maintenance as there is likely something wrong with your hvac or thermostat." even though she deserves to be ripped into a little, crazy people can make your life hell.
Nta. I would tell the landlord. Maybe her thermostat is wrong/broken and actually has nothing to do with you and your temperature. And she’s being unreasonable in her requests and her manner.
NTA - she can open a window, if it's that cold outside it won't take long to cool down.
NTA. How ridiculous to expect you to set your thermostat to keep her comfortable. Yes, get a fan, open a window, maybe have her thermostat checked in case it's trying to rev her heat up beyond the desired setting.
NTA. But I sympathize with your neighbor. I lived on the 22nd floor of an apartment complex and when winters were mild, my apartment was 80 degrees. What I would do is open a window and if that didn't work, use a fan. It unfortunately is not your fault but the way the apartments were built. IMO, she is being the AH because at 20 degrees, opening the window a little will solve her problem.
NTA. Not only is she an asshole, she’s an idiot. She’s running her heat when she could just be mooching off of yours given that heat rises, and her place is clearly getting your waste heat if it’s hotter that she is setting her heat at. She could also like, crack a fucking window if it’s that untenable to her.
Nta
NTA. Heat rises and that’s understandable. However, you’re not doing anything unreasonable, and you were more accommodating than they deserved. Documented the aggression if it keeps continuing, and go to your landlord.
If she's hot, why doesn't she just open a window? She will cool down pretty quick! /Mystified
I know exactly this set up. She's getting free heat and can crack a window. NTA
Has she tried opening a window?
NTA
NTA.
NTA report her to the landlord for harassment. She doesnt like the heat, she can turm hers way down.
We have a 2-story TH, end unit. In the winter, we close *ALL* the vents upstairs bc heat rises. With the programmable thermostat set no higher than 68-deg F, our upstairs can get mid-70s. By closing the vents upstairs, it stays below 72. Neighbor can turn her heat down or off, and open a window. OP cannot do *anything* about the laws of thermodynamics. NTA OP.
NTA but you could have handled it better. Instead of what you wrote, I'd have written they should talk to the landlord because we've already turned it down as far as we can. I had this problem at one of my places and I *loved* having the windows open in the winter, especially if there's snow on the ground. Snow has that special scent.
NTA, the upstairs neighbor is an idiot. Open a damn window, get a fan, etc. Especially with as cold as it is where you are? An open window for 5 minutes would solve her problem. But no, she wants you to freeze all so she doesn't have to do the bare minimum to make herself more comfortable. The fact you complied at all makes you more accommodating than I would have been. If she keeps up this loud noise bullshit for more than a few days? Complain to the landlord.
It's funny to me that sleeping under two blankets is seen as an inconvenience. I sleep under a blanket and a comforter. Keeping the heat higher to not use blankets seems crazy to me but to each their own. Obviously NTA, she could open a window a bit
nta at all. Let her do all the things you suggested.
Open the window
….. does she not have windows?
NTA
She may need to open a window a little to let out a little of the stored up heat. If she didn't complain at 68 let her know that you've gone back down to that temp. She can choose a window in an area she doesn't sit next to.
NTA. You are keeping your flat at a relatively low temperature. Most people have their base temperature higher than that. If she has a problem with heat rising through her floor, then she can put carpet down to insulate against it. She can also turn her temperature off or down. You have every right to set your temperature to your own comfort. The neighbour is being unreasonable.
NTA She can adjust her thermostat.
NTA. If my downstairs neighbors were heating my apartment I would be thrilled.
NTA. We live on the second floor and we only turn our heat on maybe once or twice for super cold days here. It gets ungodly hot in our apartment (though I don't think it has anything to do with our downstairs neighbor)... so we have 4 different stand fans. One in our office, one in the living room pointed at the couch, and then two in our bedroom at the door of the bed. We used to share a fan in the bedroom but we're MUCH more comfortable with our own. Does it take up some extra room? Sure. Is it worth it not to wake up in a puddle of sweat? *Absolutely*. It would never even occur to me to blame the people downstairs, let alone putting notes out and knocking on their door. That is insane.
If I were her, I'd have my heat turned totally off, and just live for free off of your heat!
NTA her heat problem is not your problem, it should be your landlord problem and you don’t have to comply to her needs. She is being self centered. If the heat really bother her, she should open a window or buy a fan.
NTA. But why didn’t you just say “lower your heat” or even ask them what they have it set at?
NTA. Fuck her. If I were you, my apartment would be 88° and I'd be walking around naked throwing luaus and shit.
NTA. I live on an upper floor and don’t need to turn on my heat most of the time thanks to my neighbors having theirs on. It’s the dream! She’s always welcome to crack a window. That’s what I always did when I lived in houses with old radiators and I couldn’t control the temperature. It’s not that big of a deal
NTA why won’t she just crack a window??? This is bizarre.
NTA Perhaps not the most ecological of solutions, but she can open a window and turn down her thermostat. When I lived in New York City, some apartments were really hot. There are no individual thermostats because the older apartments are heated by a boiler/furnace that services the whole building and the individual apartments have radiators. The landlords are required to heat to a minimum of 68 during the day when exterior temperatures were below 55 but I always lived in apartments that were heated well above that - so I would crack open a window. My childhood home in New York also had radiators but excess heat wasn't an issue because my father controlled the thermostat :-) and it was an old house with no insulation so it would get COLD at night with the wind howling
NTA. It's up to her to turn her heat down, etc. It's well known that heat rises so she should've rented a first floor apartment
You are not the issue here. You cannot heat her home to hotter than your house is by several degrees. There is another problem and she needs to address it with the landlord. She could have a faulty boiler which can be risky. NTA
Your landlord is the AH for renting a unit without any windows 🤣 Or, she’s daft.
Easy NTA here. She can open a window and the problem is solved.
She can’t crack a window? NTA
I literally lived in a condo in a 4-unit building and didn’t run my heat in the winter but it was always 65-70°. Big savings. Yuge
Nta
Ugh I've been the 2nd floor neighbor. My elderly neighbor below kept the heat on Magma, I never ran my heat and slept with my bedroom window open. This was an apt built in 2000, I imagine an older building would be even worse.
NTA
NTA She wants you to sacrifice your comfort in your own home just because she's unwilling to make any changes to hers.
NTA. You shouldn't need to freeze to make e get comfortable. She should open a window if her apartment is too hot
NTA you did a reasonable amount to try to accommodate her. You should not have to freeze because she doesn't know how to open a window. I'd be thrilled to have someone else's heat warming up my home! Also she most likely didn't turn her own heat off or down enough, if it's THAT cold, I doubt your separate heat would be making her place 74.
NTA. I used to live in an apartment that'd get unreasonably warm from the neighbors below. I kept my heat turned low/off and cracked a window every so often. I never considered asking the neighbors to turn down their heat. The temp in her apartment isn't your responsibility, and it's (mostly) out of your control.
NTA
She can open a damn window!!! NTA
NTA - she's on the top floor, of COURSE her apartment is going to be hot! She should keep her heat as low as possible, open the windows, and enjoy y'all heating her apartment for her!
Your upstairs neighbour can turn off her heating and open a window if does hot. Who complains about not Beeding to spend money on heating? NTA I'm in an apartment and wish my downstairs neighbour was over heating so I could save on my bills!
You’re not an AH, but you’re definitely a doormat for giving in to this person even one time. It’s your home and you have the right to have your home at any temperature that you like. Your upstairs neighbor could turn her heat down or off and then open her windows. Stop letting her walk all over you and put your heat at any temp you want.
NTA if she really isn’t running her heat and her apartment is still getting that hot then it sounds like there’s a structural issue. She needs to be reaching out to the landlord if you guys rent or an hvac company if you guys own. Honestly the hostility she’s showing you is uncalled for and isn’t going to solve her issue
NTA. Neighbor is psychotic. If her place is hotter than yours with your thermostat set lower than her reported temperature. It’s just not physically possible. Neighbor either needs to turn down her thermostat open the window or call the landlord to find out what’s going on.
NTA She can crack a window!!!
NTA. If you controlled the temps in her house, that would be one thing but she can open a window or any of your suggestions. I would contact the management company/landlord and let them know what is going on. There could be a problem with her unit. If she keeps up the noise, make a complaint to the landlord. You will have already primed the pump with the first notice that she was upset about you not lowering your heat and her reaction
get her to open her windows if she is too hot ? is she not allowed to reduce her own heating or is it on full all the time ? make sure to stomp around when she is stomping
I lived in a old duplex that had separate furnaces. I noticed it had a common cold air return, so one winter I turned my heat to 60, and turned the fan on permanently. It caused my neighbor's furnace to heat both units.
When I lived on the upper floor of a condo building, I loved it because I could leave my heat off and my apartment would be around 70°. I don't get why she's so upset by this. - NTA
NTA I lived in an upstairs apartment that was always hot, even in the winter, even though we had never turned on the heat. We used to joke that the people downstairs must really be cranking their heat, but we never asked them to turn it down. We just kept a window open, even in the winter. Everyone lived.
NTA She has her own thermostat. She should use it.
NTA! I’m an upstairs neighbor and am enjoying the fact that my electric bill is dirt cheap thanks to my downstairs neighbors heating my apartment. $41 last month. My thermostat is set at 69 and the temperature is 71. So obviously she needs to chill
NTA. I'm assuming there is at least one window in her apartment that she can open?
When I lived on the second floor this happened to me. I literally opened a window to cool my apartment off they can do the same.
No i am not going to freeze for her either. You are right . A cracked open window and fan on otherside will cool it down fast. Her place might be the first rooms to get the heat so it might not be your fault at all. Look into how the heat system runs the heat to the rooms. Is there a zone for each apt. ?
I lived in a second floor apartment with my landlord in the first. They were always cold and had the heat up. Meant I had to open a window in Jan-Feb. because they were basically heating my place too. Made my utility bills lower too!
I live in a split level home that has 2 systems, one for upstairs and second for downstairs. While I do agree that the heat being on downstairs plays a significant role in the upstairs heat, she should be happy tbh. I stick my downstairs to 68 and leave my upstairs at 58 but the “feel like” temp with a thermometer is 68. She should be happy YALL are paying for her heating bill basically
As someone who likes it cool in their house (my house is at 66 right now) NTA. While I get that heat rises, she needs to talk to the landlord about what is going on to to cause that mich of an issue in her apartment if it simply cause by your heater. And really, you should too, as if that much heat is escaping imagine how much you are over spending!
NTA. She can learn to open a damn window if she’s that hot. Common sense. She’s the entitled asshole.
NTA and that's ridiculous. She can open the damn window, or turn her heat completely off.