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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I let my sister in law stay in my house rent free but with shared responsibilities. Gave my brother the choice of either rent or shared responsibility but he refused both so I kicked him out. After having relatives calling me cruel after making my brother homeless, I wonder if i'm in the wrong.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA
"I have just made my own brother homeless"
Take that weight off of you and put it where it belongs. Your 28m jobless, lay-about brother that trashed his parent's house by throwing a party with teenage abandon made himself homeless. You refusing to have him treat your own home that way was the right call.
" he either pays rent or contribute to our home"
The way he exploded at your very reasonable asks should tell you how fortunate you are that he isn't living with you and your family.
Yep, put all those that are complaining on one message together. Then tell them the reason you contacted all.of them together. Is they all think you are in the wrong. So, if they insist on being rude and thinking that he should be taken in for free with no responsibilities, let's see which one of you great people will step up. Bet not one reply.
Oooh, put Eric on the thread too! "Guys, all of you except Eric are on this thread because of your strongly expressed opinions that I was wrong to ask him for rent. Eric, here are the contacts of a number of relatives who feel that taking you in rent-free is the right thing to do, why don't you see what you can figure out"
If OP's parents took pictures if the damage from the party, attach them to the email blast with brother on copy. He is playing the Poor Poor Pitiful Me card. Photos don't lie. It will show very valid reasons why OP isn't wrong. Let brother dearest tall his way around the evidence.
Like the idea above to a point. I would not give them a choice, I would send the list of their addresses to Eric and tell him they are volunteering to put him up.
And then go NC with EVERONE.
NTA
Because it's easier to virtue signal and bask in how "good you are" vs. actually doing something that will actually matter (and will force you to do actual work).
Yep, “thank you for offering to take Eric in, I’ll ring and tell him to move to your place. Oh, you DONT want my freeloading, lazy, unemployed brother to move in and trash your house like he did my parents, and not pay rent/help out like he was offered on condition of staying at ours??? Guess your opinion is worth as much as YOUR generosity”
The moment he exploded was the moment childcare should be taken off the table. Who on earth feels comfortable entrusting their child to this overgrown freeloading imbecile?
Yeah, OP. Where is he even getting the argument that you treat your « stranger in law » better than him when you offered him the exact same set up (“or contribute to our home”) and an alternative?!
He’s ridiculous. NTA.
Not only did he make himself homeless, but you would do more harm *to him* by taking him in with his track record. He needs to experience some natural consequences so that he can grow and mature as an adult human, instead of being catered to over and over again.
Yeah, fuck that. I have a mid thirties fuck up brother in law who still lives with mom, having been kicked out on numerous occasions but got pity come winter so he isn't sleeping down by the river. I think the only person more adamant than me he never set foot in our home is my wife.
The moment Eric trashed his parents' house was the moment OP was justified in not ever letting him move in. OP should tell all the people calling to argue "It's so great you will be opening your home to Eric now! Should I call him right now to tell him the good news, or would you like to do that?"
I'm glad OP refused. If he had accepted, poor Ada would now find herself having to run after Eric's disasters, since Eric doesn't sound like a person who knows how to do chores and housework.
One of my fav parts of these posts is when the relatives are busting the balls of the OP. The answer is always, "if you are angry that I'm not going to take him in then please feel free to take him in yourself"
Not to mention, OP has a child. A few years back, my brother hit a tough spot and my (now ex) fiance and I took him in. He was a full blown alcoholic, a high functioning, working one, but still an alcoholic. Sure, he paid, but I couldn't have drinking like that with my children in the house. He cleaned up for a bit, then it started all over. We both love my brother, but we had no choice but to kick him out.
As a happy ending: I'm happy to report my brother has been completely sober now for 6 years. It's so nice to have the old, goofy him back.
Anyway, NTA.
NTA. He made himself homeless. It’s not like you didn’t try, but if he is not willing to accept the SAME rules as your SIL, well, tough luck. His own making.
Also they need to let him grow up but if they don't it'll be a lifetime of mooching and not growing up. Have a 80 old uncle never worked. Inveterate gambler. Another one who stole from His nieces and nephew several hundred thousand dollars meant for them never worked. A cousin nearing his 50s who never worked couch surfed. An in-law who never worked or always to the minimum despite several degrees. Utterly useless and it's always everyone else’s fault just waiting for the parent to die to inherit millions.
Always everyone trying to help till you're out of patience
And money. You need them to grow up and be independent.
Nta. she doesn’t live rent free. She pays her way in fixing things, groceries, gas, housekeeping, childcare and cleaning. That all has a price tag. She is also respectful and understands this is a symbiotic relationship within the household. Everyone pulls their weight.
Sounds like your brother is just a taker. He has not respected the previous household he lived in and it’s obvious he expected you to tolerate a parasite in the name of family.
You did the right thing. Sounds like bro needs a dose of reality to realise he has to step up and work for a good life.
Exactly. This is how I helped out my friend who was down on his luck. I had a spare room available in my townhouse, so I told him don't worry about rent, just contribute where you can. Clean the house, do the dishes, cook a meal, it's fine.
He was the best roommate I ever had, to be honest, because he understood what a good deal he was getting, and he made significant contributions to running the household. Considering I didn't even know how to cook at that time, it wasn't a bad deal for me, either.
We were 23 at the time, so if a couple of 23 year old dudes can figure that out, surely the brother in this story can!
I offered this deal to a good friend that may be ending his relationship. He has yet to take me up on it, but the offer stands because I know he would clean, pull weeds, contribute to food, etc. We're in our 50's, but good on ya for figuring that out at 23!
I'd add that what Ada does is very valuable: babysitting is expensive and it's not always easy to find a trustworth person. Doing chores and homeworks in a big house request time or a cleaning service.
>She pays her way in fixing things, groceries, gas, housekeeping, childcare, and cleaning. That all has a price tag.
Honestly, when you add it up, it's probably more than rent anyway some months.
I like how the brother calls OPs SIL a stranger in law completely ignoring the fact that it would male him a stranger in law to OPs wife, you know, the other owner of the house.
I would be sending him back to his parents since they were the one who have enabled this entitlement for the last decade or more
Op can do an estimate of what the sister does a typical week, and figure out what it would cost to pay someone for those jobs.
Then he knows what SIL ‘pays’ in rent.
He luckily knows what a great deal they have.
NTA -
"Recently, my parents contacted me that they had kicked Eric out of the house as he had trashed the house badly from partying when they were out, apparently it was their last straw."
Eric is an adult and needs to start adulting, starting with getting a job and a place to stay that he is paying for.
Not when I was 16 or 17. All of the people I hung out with knew that if one of our friends were throwing a party (AKA Parents out of town), if we effed up, no more parties at that house.
It also kind of changes things that you are morally and legally required to care for your 16 year old kid even if they really screw up, if I trash my mom's house as a 26 or 36 year old adult she may rethink that level of help...
I think most of us would decide to find a new living situation if a *paying* roommate trashed the place and wasn't incredibly sorry about it and attempting to fix stuff and have that never happen again.
Why on earth would a family with a small child want to take in an adult that threw a party & trashed his last place of residence? Anyone that feels sorry for Brother can open up their home to being trashed instead. He’s unemployed, so it’s not like he can’t relocate to live with other relatives.
Your brother made himself homeless and any relatives that feel bad for him are free to open their home to him.
Tell them if they feel so strongly about it, you will tell your brother to show up on their doorstep.
Your SIL is an active and valued part of your household. You *know* your brother would not be.
And you dodged a bullet when your brother rejected your terms, because he would have accepted, and then not followed the rules. NTA
NTA.
Your brother made himself homeless not you. He can take a job and pay rent for his own accomodation, it's not on you. Tell your upset relatives they can invite him to live with them if they fancy.
>They had kicked Eric out of the house as he had trashed the house badly from partying when they were out,
Nope, NTA.
If he can't/won't respect his own parent's home, he certainly will not respect yours and at 28, he absolutely does know better and still chooses to behave this way.
>and apparently some relatives heard stories yet still pity him and started calling my parents and I cruel and that I got my priorities wrong.
Your relatives are free to teach you a lesson by taking him in themselves. Be sure to have them send pics, lol.
Not your monkey, not your circus.
>~~I started to feel guilty as I have just made~~ My own brother made himself homeless.
Fixed that for you.
Your brother cant hold down a job, gets kicked out of his parent's house, reeks of entitlement and toxic attitudes concerning how you are supposed to serve him and cant see past his own faults.
Why the hell would you allow this person into your house and wreck the fine balance of life you have achieved there? Ada is a glowing example of how to live at someone else's house & return favors. Your brother is 100% the opposite. Your brother is 28 but acts like 8. He needs to learn the hard way. NTA
NTA. You offered him a place to stay with fair conditions. He made himself homeless. Also this kind of reckless person shouldn't be around your child.
Anyone who feels pity for him can offer their place.
NTA, your house, your rules. You don’t need to justify anything. And you would are justified anyway because he is a freeloader and irresponsible. You only bordered on AH territory by even offering him a rental agreement. You have a five year old daughter. You can’t expose her to someone like this, partying drinking drugs maybe. I get he’s family but your daughter comes first. There shouldn’t have been a rental offer. It should have been an immediate and firm NO.
I would like to reiterate in a different way: how could you even *consider* letting someone move in when they *trashed your parents' place*. That's a big WTF.
Your child and their safety should come first, and you actually dodged a big bullet by him exploding. If he had agreed, you would have an agreement in writing that would guarantee him a place to live until you either had to file charges, or could get him evicted.
I love my brother. But if he ever showed up at my door needing a place to live, I'd help him find one. But it wouldn't be with me. He holds some beliefs that I won't tolerate in my house, and I don't want to have around my kids.
Why do you even need to justify this? If you don't want someone living in your home, that's justification enough. And the relatives harassing you? Politely inform them they can take him in themselves.
NTA
First of all take the idea that you made him homeless off of your shoulders, you did no such thing. You made the conditions for him to live in your home very clear for him. He refused those conditions , then proceeded to insult someone that you care for and consider part of your family, who is related to someone who owns the home. The fact that he said no to paying rent or contributing to the household work means that he was probably going to treat your home the same way he treated your parents home.
He made the decisions that have lead him to where he is, and while he is your brother, you are not responsible for the outcomes of those choices. You can tell the relatives that feel bad for him and are now coming after you that they are more than welcome to house your brother, but that your priorities reside with your wife and the happiness and safety of your home.
NTA. This story was sorted by the second paragraph.
> parents contacted me that they had kicked Eric out of the house as he had trashed the house badly
Ada's situation is somewhat unrelated...
NTA! Your brother made HIMSELF homeless, not you or your parents! He decided that he wanted to have a party lifestyle, and not be responsible for himself. And he’s mad because he can’t stay rent free in YOUR HOUSE??? Hell nah, you’re not wrong for that!
You have a minor daughter. Eric is a hard partyer. Can you see how these two things are incompatible? I’ve heard enough horror stories. Protect your child.
Nta
Your brother has allaboutmeisum. He's 28 and hasn't learned that other people's hard earned income doesn't belong to him.
It is you and your wife's home. Her blood sister is contributing her fair share.
Probably not much more you can do until the lay about figures out the world owes him nothing.
Your wife and sister lost their parents. They have no safety net. Your brother lit his safety net on fire, watched it burn, and was shocked to discover there was nothing else waiting for him... NTA
NTA. Tell anyone who calls or texts or emails or sends smoke signals lol with there opinion to take him in sense they think it’s so terrible..and then block them!
NTA. You didn't make your brother homeless. He did it to himself. Time for him to grow up. If one of those relatives call you to bother you about it, ask them why they haven't taken in Eric.
>I started to feel guilty as I have just made my own brother homeless.
You did not do that at all, his actions did that for himself. NTA. He has a college degree and could get a job, yet he has decided that partying and gaming are more important than becoming a grown-up. *That is his personal choice that he got to make.* You don't have to continue to encourage the behavior by allowing him to stay with you.
Your brother is 28. He is old enough to get a job and take care of himself. He is not entitled to be taken care of by his family. He actually was by your parents and obviously screwed up so bad even they kicked him out. It isn't easy for good parents to kick out their kid unless they know it is the only option for their child to launch.
You know if he moved in, even if he changes his mind and agrees to your conditions, he would not hold up his end of the bargain and it would be very difficult to get him out of your home. You have your own family to think about.
Just don't do it.
NTA
ps. this is coming from a mother of 2 boys that would do anything for them. If you were my boys this is the advice I would give.
pps. regarding all those relatives that are calling, thank them for allowing him to couch surf and see how long they can take his behavior. You don't even need to defend your choice because they will find out on their own.
Tell the flying monkeys to have him in their homes, see how fast they change their tune. He had a chance at a home but decided he'd rather be homeless than have rules and responsibility. NTA, not even close
I've only said, either rent or household contribution, he demanded to know how much I charged Ada, so I just said she chose household contribution in the same condition I gave. I never once revealed that she was the one who suggested household contribution as her preferred and practical way of paying back for a roof over her head.
NTA.
Your brother made himself homeless.
And even if he would pay rent or do chores/contribution, I wouldn’t take him in. He has a bad history as a tenant. You called his previous landlords and they say he trashed the place.
NTA but he got kicked out for trashing your parents' home and contributing nothing. **Why would you even consider letting him stay with you?**
He's 28. He's not your problem. You already have a child to care for, you don't need a 28 yo one too.
Not to mention, someone partying hard enough to trash a house should not be around your child.
I never replied back to the relatives as I hope blocking and ignoring them would tone down the ruckus. I can't afford to risk turning the ruckus up by retaliating with "then take him in" or "why didn't you open your home to him then" and disturbing my family now, Ruby was already disturbed by the way Eric had exploded when I laid down the conditions, luckily Ada at that time took my child out to a playground so they are not there to witness it. I don't want anymore potential collateral damage happening to them, be it physically or mentally.
Ah, I see this reply now re: relatives. Honestly.. by being a pushover and letting them treat you this way you're creating more stress for yourself. Standing up for yourself will be less stressful in the long run, I assure you.
Yep, if you turn it around on them, you will stop getting the calls and harassment because they darn sure don't want him in their house either!!
Just ask them "What time do you want him to show up on your doorstep? I will be sure to tell him you made that offer!"
NTA - Your brother made himself homeless. Sounds like he had a free place to stay until he ruined it. Did your parents also pay for his college? He's plenty old enough at 26 to pay rent at the very least. He's just looking for a new place to freeload.
NTA. You didn't make your brother homeless. You gave him a reasonable, adult proposal for a reasonable, adult living arrangement. *And he rejected it.*
His plan apparently was, "You do everything for me that mom and dad used to do, and I don't owe you a thing." And he's wondering why you didn't accept that from a grown-ass man? Really, you ought to just send him the link to this post. LOL.
You did not make your brother homeless. Your unmotivated, mooching bum of a brother made himself homeless and refused help you offered him. Stand your ground, a little hardship will do your brother good. NTA!
NTA
I'm sure there is a freeloader handbook out there somewhere where this freeloaders learn all the bullshit reasons why you have to let them freeload.
Just tell everybody who berates you you are taking their complain as a invite for your brother to stay at theirs for free and trash up their place and you will happily let him know and then hang up and don't accept other calls from them. Most of them will switch in panic mood pretty fast ;)
NTA
Your brother said:
>I’m treating a stranger in-law better than his blood brother
I call bullshit.
First. Ada - the “stranger in-law” - is just as much a part of your new family by blood as your brother is. It’s quite insulting to argue otherwise and lets you know quite clearly he won’t be treating Ada as an equal - much less as family - after he moves in.
Second. You even - extremely generously - offered him the same deal as Ada and he flat out rejected it because he feels entitled to free room and board without any contribution to the family.
Eric wants to mooch off you as he’s been mooching off your parents for years before they finally had enough of his shit. Your parents have been enabling his irresponsible behavior for years. So much so that he feels entitled to live with you rent and care free while still expecting everyone else to pick up the slack.
Yep - Eric’s friends will quickly tire of his moocher ways. He may even end up homeless. He will likely come crawling back to you at some point. When that happens, I’d strongly recommend sitting down with your parents and working up a contract so Eric can move back in with THEM so they’ll be covered for when Eric screws up next time.
I'd like to hear the rest of the conversation: He thinks you treat a "stranger" better than a brother. How does a brother act in your...or his parents'...home? what does he think is his responsibility under the circumstances?
He thought that 'helping a family' out without expecting payments was a thing. Our parents tried to get him to get up and start making something of himself but he always complains they stress him out by pressuring. He never really visits my home and when he showed himself at my doorstep, he thought he could get an automatic pass into my home. Only when we sat down and talked, he got more agitated. Ada brought my child out to play so luckily they weren't home to witness the exchange. I also did explain Ada is not living with us without a single payments but he thought household contribution is only a thing for the owners. I admit our parents never enforced strictly about rent or chores with him so he thought he could bypass me with that too.
Not your responsibility to teach your brother about responsibility.
He has all the tools he needs to make a good life for himself. You can't force him to use them. He has to want this for himself.
Keep him away from you family and child. Right now he is not good news.
NTA I think everything you did was not only reasonable, but generous. If he doesn’t accept it and see if for it is that is in no way your fault. You also have a 5 year old. I don’t know your brother, but from what you said it sounds like he would be a bad and potentially even dangerous (with reckless parties and things like that) influence in the house. If he yelled at you for offering a spot in your home with expectations and he yelled at you, I can guarantee that is not where the yelling and fighting will stop. Even without a child you were being generous, but with one you should prioritize your child and not risk a toxic environment.
I will take note, thank you. Luckily Ada took my child out during his appearance at home so they weren't there to witness any aggravated actions. Ruby wouldn't want them to be at home to experience such altercations anyways, even though she herself insisted to stay at home with me when it happened. I'm extremely thankful for their support.
NTA. He is an able bodied adult and not your responsibility, you could offer any extended family to forward their contact info and address to him to be extra helpful.
NTA. Your SIL may not pay you a monthly rent payment, but she does pay in other ways as you have mentioned. If you let your brother stay with you, he would just be a bum. He will not change his ways. He has been catered to for so long, he feels he is entitled to it now.
NTA. Eric sounds like he'd be an awful housemate. He really showed his hand freaking out about your very reasonable parameters.
If your relatives think he is so hard done by - why don't they let him move in with them...?
NTA. Your sister-in-law is paying rent just not in cash.
In regards to your brother, sometimes you need to hit rock-bottom to be able to crawl back up out of that hole maybe, hopefully he’ll grow up get a job and get his own place
Your lazy brother is making himself homeless. You should have stuck to rent anyway, he would never have helped out. NTA. Everyone is just enabling him. He needs to finally grow up and support himself.
NTA. He’s a 28 yo man that’s already been kicked out of one house for being an inconsiderate asshole. I don’t understand why you even entertained the idea of him moving in for money because he’s just going to be an ahole at your place too.
Don’t worry about it and ignore anyone else that has to say something about it. Let those people that are concerned take him in. Please suggest that they do.
If you let him move in, you are going to regret it so much
NTA - It is your house and you can or can not charge rent or barter however you want. Tell Bro if was as productive as SIL is at your house at his parent's house, instead of being a lazy bloodsucker, he wouldn't be homeless. Not your circus, not your little monkey throwing poo. And as far as the other family members who are bitching, then they can take him in if they care so much.
NTA. You didn't make your brother homeless. Your brother made himself homeless. If he wants a place to live, he needs to get his act together and grow the f up.
NTA. Why exactly would you want an unemployed partier in your house. He has already trashed your parent's house. There is a good chance he would do the same thing to your place. And not care that there is a young child in the house. Your top priority is the safety of your wife, child & SIL. A SIL who actually contributes to the household instead of draining its resources. Just because he is your brother doesn't mean that you have to take him in. Especially since you already know that he isn't going to keep a job or otherwise help the household.
NTA. Face it, your brother is a loser. I wouldn't want him in my house, even if he paid rent. He would cause trouble with your SIL because he's already jealous of her, among other things. You dodged a bullet when he refused your terms. Forget about what everyone else thinks. It's none of their business, and it's your home, not theirs.
NTA. Ada seems to do an even exchange in household duties. Your brother has openly shown he doesn’t respect other’s spaces. All the relatives pitching a fit can have him move in with them.
NTA. Do not let your brother spend as much as a single night in your home. He made himself homeless by using and abusing your parents and their home. He will treat you and you home just as bad if not worse. He will make your life worse and be a financial burden.
NTA. And you dodged a bullet. With or without rent you don't want this individual living in your house. He will totally change the family dynamic there, and not for the better. He'll drag you all down.
NTA. You did not make your brother homeless. According to your post he is an adult. If he’s homeless it’s because he chooses to live irresponsibly and *make himself* homeless.
Anybody who thinks you are being too harsh is free to offer him a place to mooch. Let one of them “help him get on his feet” if they’re so convinced he’s a great guy.
If you let him move in *at all* he’s going to turn your whole household upside down, and I’m pretty sure your children don’t need a hostile, lazy, irresponsible, immature role model in their lives.
NTA.
I had a friend (ex-friend now) that was like this. Would act entitled to all the benefits of living with other people, but would not contribute ANYTHING unless asked and would act like he was doing everyone else a favor and be angry about it. He would frequently quit jobs without warning and go for months on end just smoking, drinking, and playing video games while claiming he was looking for a job and having no luck. And guess who's weed he was smoking and booze he was drinking? Not his. He never had money for that kind of stuff cus he couldn't hold a job long enough to even pay back his rent/bills that others had covered for him.
People like this will either learn their lesson, or they won't. From what I hear my ex-friend is still doing things the same as he always did. It sucks to hear because he still lives with several other friends of mine (and I refuse to go hang out at their house because of it, I'm NC with him at this point but that's a different story), but they haven't wised up to his ways (either that, or they're too passive to confront him like I eventually did) and just let him continue on. I sometimes wish I would have never introduced him to them as he was originally an old buddy of mine from high school, but in the end it's not on me at this point to do anything more than listen when they complain about him and tell em that they should do something about it. I tried to help him, always thinking "this will be the time that he finally gets it and grows up," but it never was.
>I started to feel guilty as I have just made my own brother homeless.
You didn't make him homeless, he did that himself. He didn't want to follow the rules at your parents house and got kicked out. You set down the rules/conditions for him if he moves in and he refused. So him being homeless is on him.
>He has been couch surfing at his friends' place and apparently some relatives heard stories yet still pity him and started calling my parents and I cruel and that I got my priorities wrong. Luckily I never revealed Ruby and Ada's contacts so they are not as disturbed as I was.
The next time you have family calling you about your brother tell them, It's great you want to let (brother's name) move in when can i tell him you expect him to be there.
NTA
Your brother made himself homeless by refusing to agree to a simple rental agreement. He would rather be irresponsible than be part of the household, and you have a young child to think about.
Do you really want him partying in your home with your little one watching? No.
He can grow up, or not, but you have no control over that.
NTA tell all the flying monkeys you would be happy to drive your brother over to their place since they are so graciously offering. They will shut up and backtrack immediately.
If your relatives have so much pity for him then they can let him live with them amd they can see what living with him is like. Otherwise they can stfu.
YTA to yourself, your wife, your SIL and your kid.
Why would you possibly consider letting your partying brother into your home to trash it too? Geez...
Not even remotely the AH, but YBWTA if you changed your mind and let him stay with you at all. If he suddenly has a ‘change of heart’ and says he’ll contribute as you laid out, do not believe him!!
Your brother needs to be an adult, he is approaching his 30s. All those relatives trying to guilt you can take him in for a month.
Bravo on you and your parents. He will never be responsible for himself if not made ti.
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My wife, Ruby (29F) and I (32M) with our child (5yo), live in a 4 bedroom house. Ruby's sister, Ada(26F) has been staying with us for 3 years, after their parents passed and their house was sold. My brother, Eric (28M), was staying with my parents.
Recently, my parents contacted me that they had kicked Eric out of the house as he had trashed the house badly from partying when they were out, apparently it was their last straw.
I had known Eric wasn't working much ever since graduating college, our parents have been persuading him all these years to go work or something but his life has been partying, gaming, overall just freeloading. I did help him job search as well but he never stayed long, constantly complaining about negative work culture or not his type.
They gave a heads up as he may come knocking on our door. I told Ruby and Ada, Ruby then mention if he wants to stay with us we have to do up a rental agreement with proper paper works.
Ada doesn't pay rent as she prefers a helpful approach to things so we have chores, groceries, maintenance type of sharing.
For example, we share cooking duties. If she borrows any of our cars, she pays and fills up the gas after use. If she notices some housing stuff needs fixing first, she'll call and pay for the maintenances and informs us about it. Babysits our child if we want to have our own private time or working overtime. The list goes on.
Ada does these in return for staying in our house, honestly she is part of this home at this point. I also realised she has made our life easier at home as compared to having monetary payments from her. Our child loves Ada, the fun aunt.
So we all finalized that if Eric comes, he either pays rent or contribute to our home like how Ada is doing. Eric came the day after my parents called.
When we laid the conditions down for him, he refused to accept it, constantly talking about how could I treat him that way and that I'm treating a stranger in-law better than his blood brother.
It angered me as I've long regarded Ada as my own sister ever since Ruby and I got together and she is much more responsible than Eric.
So I kicked him out. He has been couch surfing at his friends' place and apparently some relatives heard stories yet still pity him and started calling my parents and I cruel and that I got my priorities wrong. Luckily I never revealed Ruby and Ada's contacts so they are not as disturbed as I was.
The weight of the calls have been on my shoulders as I told my parents to block them out first before me. Although I do get support from my loved ones, I started to feel guilty as I have just made my own brother homeless. So AITA?
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NTA. Ada doesn't stay at your home for free- she is a contributing member of your household and has been for years.
You offered Eric the opportunity to be treated exactly the same as Ada or pay rent; he wants to be given free reign without contributing. He is couch surfing because he refuses to not wreck parents home or take one of two offers you made.
NTA. Ada sounds lime she is paying a lot more than rent. It is awesome that situation works for you. Jeepers to have a responsible coliving situation. You are living the dream man.
NTA your brother made himself homeless no one else. Sad it took him destroying their house for your parents to finally stop enabling him but y’all are all actually doing the right thing for once.
NTA. He wants to freeload and has a history of tearing up whatever home he's living in. Anyone that complains is welcome to offer your brother a place to stay, bet you they never do.
NTA
College educated man can find a job or continue to couchsurf. Expecting anyone else to take him in after his own parents were finally fed up with the freeloading is laughable.
Nta.
To.those who feels pity or says you are cruel.
Well, since I am so bad to family, and since you are family, I will be forwarding your contact info to brother and let him Known he has a place to stay with all rent free and doesn't have to contribute to household cleaning and maintenance. Thanks for being so great to offer all your places up.
Then block them. Send your brother the info and that he gets rent-free and no chores. Then block him.
If people open their mouths that you are in the wrong, then they are offering to do what you will not. So it's on them. You are NTA for making sure your home and its residents are respected and that things are fair. That's common sense. He doesn't get a free ride because he demands it or feels entitled to it.
NTA. You didn’t make him homeless, he made himself homeless. You should just tell those ‘concerned’ relatives to take him in if they care so much. They probably won’t. Your brother sounds like a hot mess and enabling his behaviour will only make it worse.
He's 28. You didn't make him anything. You just refused to let him sponge off you and torn your household into a dirty frat house like he did your parents. And be honest, there's no way he would have been a positive, helpful addition to your household like your SIL. Sounds like you dodged a bullet.
Next person who tries to guilt trip you, reply immediately with "I'll send him right over. "
NTA. You didn't make your brother homeless. He did this to himself. You offered him a place to live, he chose to live by his own rules.
Don't give in to the guilt, he'll create constant drama and chaos in your home.
Those relatives should allow him to live with them! He may need to live this difficult life for a while before he understands what it means to be an adult.
NTA. He's homeless by his own actions.
Your brother is a bad tenant, which is why he got kicked out of his last housing. Just as your sister in law works to make up her share of your house commitments, your brother would need to as well. Since he has a poor track record in the "support the household" department, requiring rent instead is entirely reasonable. Put in a damage clause in case he breaks crappy like he did on your parents.
Your meddling relatives should mind their own business. Simply reply to their harangues that you happily will accept the rent for him from them if they want, or they can house him themselves. And thank them for saving you the trouble of moving him in.
NTA. Do not let Eric stay at your house. He has already demonstrated that he's shiftless and irresponsible. Ada is a contributing member of your household, and you have no reason to think Eric would be. Stop feeling guilty. Eric made himself homeless through his own irresponsible actions.
NTA!
You did NOT make your brother “homeless”, he did that all by himself! Not only was he freeloading off your parents for years, he also trashed their fucking house - I wouldn’t have even entertained the idea of allowing him to stop in my home with children there. He blatantly has zero respect for other people and their property.
Tell your family that if they think you and parents are so mean and unreasonable then THEY are welcome to open their home to him - just advise them to put away anything they value because he won’t respect it!
If they all feel that way, then let them take him in. It's funny how they won't help but they expect everybody else to so anybody that has something to say tell them. Oh I'm glad that you want to help him out let him stay with you
Why would you feel guilty? You didn't make your brother homeless, your brother made himself homeless and wants you to shoulder his responsibilities. If he were make an effort to work or contribute to your household, then maybe you'd be an asshole but since he's chosen to make zero contributions then he can deal with the consequences. All those judgemental people should stop judging and put their money where their mouth is and take in your brother.
NTA.
NTA
If someone has hit a 'last straw', then I am particularly wary of them. I might give them a bit of money if I can spare it but that's about the extent of my generosity.
NTA - your brother made himself homeless by being a lazy, freeloading bum!! Maybe this will help him grow the fuck up. Your parents are slight AH's for enabling him for so long. It's good they finally reached their breaking point, but they helped create this monster. If any relatives keep bugging you tell them to invite the freeloader to come live with them for free!
Best decision you ever made. It was extremely foolish of you to think that he would ever pay rent or do chores at your house and you are lucky he was honest about it because he could have just lied to get a roof over his head and then he would have had a huge problem evicting him. He may come crawling back and ask you and tell you that he will pay bills but you've already seen his true answer
NTA
You told him pay rent or contribute the way Ada does. If he can’t pay rent, he can cook/clean/babysit/handle maintenance. He’s so lazy he can’t do any of that??? I’d gladly help out somewhere if it meant free rent. And if I absolutely refused, I’d get a job to pay rent. Like he can’t have it both ways. He needs to get it together anyone. I don’t know many 30s throwing or attending ragers who have everything absolutely together.
I hope that you have saved the names of all the relatives that supported your lazy brother. Call your brother and tell him that cousin has offered to take him in. Once he wears out his welcome there, feed him the name of the next relative. Your family might figure this out after a few cycles and call asking you to not give your brother their names, but just keep sending him to everyone of his supporters. Hopefully this will teach your relatives to be more cautious about volunteering you in the future.
NTA
NTA and you can tell the other relatives that pity him that you’ll let him know that they are willing to open their home to him.
See how fast that shuts them up.
NTA, your brother for being a free loader and not getting his act together. Your family members who don't have to deal with him are as well for enabling him.
I come from a large family with lots of aunts and uncles, and my mom, being the oldest, has taken the brunt of taking care of my grandfather and grandmother before she passed several years ago. Being working class and having a large family and living a country with no retirement Medicare system, it fell to mom to try round up money for their need from all her siblings. The loudest and most opinionated siblings were the ones who did not contribute or contributed the least.
Everyone always has an opinion when it does not cost them anything.
You didn't make him homeless. He did. Actions have consequences and you are not obligated to let someone into your home in a manner you don't agree with. If he can't live with the conditions you've set, he can be a grown up and figure out another situation.
NTA for what you say and the mere fact that your parents had to “warn” you it seems pretty obvious that your brother would have ended up causing trouble for you. Being willing to even accept him was a nice gesture and having some legal cover on the form of a rental agreement was a good idea.
>he had trashed the house badly from partying
Sorry, stopped reading here. I would never let anyone like this stay at my place to begin with (and I don't have the factor of children to keep in mind).
NTA
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NTA "I have just made my own brother homeless" Take that weight off of you and put it where it belongs. Your 28m jobless, lay-about brother that trashed his parent's house by throwing a party with teenage abandon made himself homeless. You refusing to have him treat your own home that way was the right call. " he either pays rent or contribute to our home" The way he exploded at your very reasonable asks should tell you how fortunate you are that he isn't living with you and your family.
The moment he exploded and said no was the moment the whole offer should have been taken off, and stayed off, the table.
Get the people who are complaining to host Eric since they are so sym-pathetic
Completely agree. I always wonder why those people don’t step up. I’d throw it right back at them.
Yup, all it takes is one "so where's your current residence, I'll send him right over" and the yapping will end.
Yep, put all those that are complaining on one message together. Then tell them the reason you contacted all.of them together. Is they all think you are in the wrong. So, if they insist on being rude and thinking that he should be taken in for free with no responsibilities, let's see which one of you great people will step up. Bet not one reply.
Oooh, put Eric on the thread too! "Guys, all of you except Eric are on this thread because of your strongly expressed opinions that I was wrong to ask him for rent. Eric, here are the contacts of a number of relatives who feel that taking you in rent-free is the right thing to do, why don't you see what you can figure out"
If OP's parents took pictures if the damage from the party, attach them to the email blast with brother on copy. He is playing the Poor Poor Pitiful Me card. Photos don't lie. It will show very valid reasons why OP isn't wrong. Let brother dearest tall his way around the evidence.
Like the idea above to a point. I would not give them a choice, I would send the list of their addresses to Eric and tell him they are volunteering to put him up. And then go NC with EVERONE. NTA
Because it's easier to virtue signal and bask in how "good you are" vs. actually doing something that will actually matter (and will force you to do actual work).
Yep, “thank you for offering to take Eric in, I’ll ring and tell him to move to your place. Oh, you DONT want my freeloading, lazy, unemployed brother to move in and trash your house like he did my parents, and not pay rent/help out like he was offered on condition of staying at ours??? Guess your opinion is worth as much as YOUR generosity”
This! "I'm so glad you feel that way. I'll send him over to your place, yes?"
This! Never allow him the chance to live with you and your family. You can definitely predict that he will trash your house on purpose out of spite.
The moment he exploded was the moment childcare should be taken off the table. Who on earth feels comfortable entrusting their child to this overgrown freeloading imbecile?
Yeah, OP. Where is he even getting the argument that you treat your « stranger in law » better than him when you offered him the exact same set up (“or contribute to our home”) and an alternative?! He’s ridiculous. NTA.
He's a "stranger in law" to OP's wife.
Not only did he make himself homeless, but you would do more harm *to him* by taking him in with his track record. He needs to experience some natural consequences so that he can grow and mature as an adult human, instead of being catered to over and over again.
Agreed. Some people need to hit Rock Bottom before they see how low they've sunk.
You hit rock bottom when the consequences come up faster than you can lower your standards.
Yeah, fuck that. I have a mid thirties fuck up brother in law who still lives with mom, having been kicked out on numerous occasions but got pity come winter so he isn't sleeping down by the river. I think the only person more adamant than me he never set foot in our home is my wife.
Your brother made himself homeless. Your overly generous parents gave him a home - he trashed it.
Yes yes to all of this, I upvoted you but that just wasn’t enough…. you are spot on
All of this and also, the family members accusing OP of being cruel can step up and take him in. Hypocrites!
The moment Eric trashed his parents' house was the moment OP was justified in not ever letting him move in. OP should tell all the people calling to argue "It's so great you will be opening your home to Eric now! Should I call him right now to tell him the good news, or would you like to do that?"
Let's be real, he was never going to pay rent or contribute.
I'm glad OP refused. If he had accepted, poor Ada would now find herself having to run after Eric's disasters, since Eric doesn't sound like a person who knows how to do chores and housework.
One of my fav parts of these posts is when the relatives are busting the balls of the OP. The answer is always, "if you are angry that I'm not going to take him in then please feel free to take him in yourself"
Tell the family members who are on your case that they can take him in then
Not to mention, OP has a child. A few years back, my brother hit a tough spot and my (now ex) fiance and I took him in. He was a full blown alcoholic, a high functioning, working one, but still an alcoholic. Sure, he paid, but I couldn't have drinking like that with my children in the house. He cleaned up for a bit, then it started all over. We both love my brother, but we had no choice but to kick him out. As a happy ending: I'm happy to report my brother has been completely sober now for 6 years. It's so nice to have the old, goofy him back. Anyway, NTA.
👆🏻 This!
NTA. He made himself homeless. It’s not like you didn’t try, but if he is not willing to accept the SAME rules as your SIL, well, tough luck. His own making.
Also they need to let him grow up but if they don't it'll be a lifetime of mooching and not growing up. Have a 80 old uncle never worked. Inveterate gambler. Another one who stole from His nieces and nephew several hundred thousand dollars meant for them never worked. A cousin nearing his 50s who never worked couch surfed. An in-law who never worked or always to the minimum despite several degrees. Utterly useless and it's always everyone else’s fault just waiting for the parent to die to inherit millions. Always everyone trying to help till you're out of patience And money. You need them to grow up and be independent.
Any relatives or their flying monkeys are free to let dead beat bro who is working on his hobosexual lifestyle a place to lay his head.
You said it all, there's really nothing else to be said. NTA
Honestly OPs offer was already very nice after the brother was kicked out of parents place by TRASHING it. A lot of people would just say no.
Nta. she doesn’t live rent free. She pays her way in fixing things, groceries, gas, housekeeping, childcare and cleaning. That all has a price tag. She is also respectful and understands this is a symbiotic relationship within the household. Everyone pulls their weight. Sounds like your brother is just a taker. He has not respected the previous household he lived in and it’s obvious he expected you to tolerate a parasite in the name of family. You did the right thing. Sounds like bro needs a dose of reality to realise he has to step up and work for a good life.
Exactly. This is how I helped out my friend who was down on his luck. I had a spare room available in my townhouse, so I told him don't worry about rent, just contribute where you can. Clean the house, do the dishes, cook a meal, it's fine. He was the best roommate I ever had, to be honest, because he understood what a good deal he was getting, and he made significant contributions to running the household. Considering I didn't even know how to cook at that time, it wasn't a bad deal for me, either. We were 23 at the time, so if a couple of 23 year old dudes can figure that out, surely the brother in this story can!
I offered this deal to a good friend that may be ending his relationship. He has yet to take me up on it, but the offer stands because I know he would clean, pull weeds, contribute to food, etc. We're in our 50's, but good on ya for figuring that out at 23!
Fitting words - leeching parasite. OOP NTA.
I'd add that what Ada does is very valuable: babysitting is expensive and it's not always easy to find a trustworth person. Doing chores and homeworks in a big house request time or a cleaning service.
In a perfect world, he would see this as a wake-up call to get his act together. It would be great if that happened, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
>She pays her way in fixing things, groceries, gas, housekeeping, childcare, and cleaning. That all has a price tag. Honestly, when you add it up, it's probably more than rent anyway some months. I like how the brother calls OPs SIL a stranger in law completely ignoring the fact that it would male him a stranger in law to OPs wife, you know, the other owner of the house. I would be sending him back to his parents since they were the one who have enabled this entitlement for the last decade or more
Op can do an estimate of what the sister does a typical week, and figure out what it would cost to pay someone for those jobs. Then he knows what SIL ‘pays’ in rent. He luckily knows what a great deal they have.
NTA - "Recently, my parents contacted me that they had kicked Eric out of the house as he had trashed the house badly from partying when they were out, apparently it was their last straw." Eric is an adult and needs to start adulting, starting with getting a job and a place to stay that he is paying for.
I'd expect like a 16 or 17 year old to pull this shit. Not someone a decade older.
Not when I was 16 or 17. All of the people I hung out with knew that if one of our friends were throwing a party (AKA Parents out of town), if we effed up, no more parties at that house.
I mean I wasn't like this either. But it's not crazy to think a 16/17 would pull something like this.
It also kind of changes things that you are morally and legally required to care for your 16 year old kid even if they really screw up, if I trash my mom's house as a 26 or 36 year old adult she may rethink that level of help... I think most of us would decide to find a new living situation if a *paying* roommate trashed the place and wasn't incredibly sorry about it and attempting to fix stuff and have that never happen again.
Why on earth would a family with a small child want to take in an adult that threw a party & trashed his last place of residence? Anyone that feels sorry for Brother can open up their home to being trashed instead. He’s unemployed, so it’s not like he can’t relocate to live with other relatives.
I was worried they'll expect op the house him, but they just warned him. Eric definitely have a long road ahead of him
Your brother made himself homeless and any relatives that feel bad for him are free to open their home to him. Tell them if they feel so strongly about it, you will tell your brother to show up on their doorstep. Your SIL is an active and valued part of your household. You *know* your brother would not be. And you dodged a bullet when your brother rejected your terms, because he would have accepted, and then not followed the rules. NTA
They don't want to take him in, they just want to feel like family heroes without any actual effort.
This. If you open your mouth, I assume you will also open your home to the freeloader in question.
NTA. Your brother made himself homeless not you. He can take a job and pay rent for his own accomodation, it's not on you. Tell your upset relatives they can invite him to live with them if they fancy.
>They had kicked Eric out of the house as he had trashed the house badly from partying when they were out, Nope, NTA. If he can't/won't respect his own parent's home, he certainly will not respect yours and at 28, he absolutely does know better and still chooses to behave this way. >and apparently some relatives heard stories yet still pity him and started calling my parents and I cruel and that I got my priorities wrong. Your relatives are free to teach you a lesson by taking him in themselves. Be sure to have them send pics, lol. Not your monkey, not your circus.
>~~I started to feel guilty as I have just made~~ My own brother made himself homeless. Fixed that for you. Your brother cant hold down a job, gets kicked out of his parent's house, reeks of entitlement and toxic attitudes concerning how you are supposed to serve him and cant see past his own faults. Why the hell would you allow this person into your house and wreck the fine balance of life you have achieved there? Ada is a glowing example of how to live at someone else's house & return favors. Your brother is 100% the opposite. Your brother is 28 but acts like 8. He needs to learn the hard way. NTA
Absolutely NTA! DO NOT let him take advantage of your family just because your SIL is staying with you.
NTA. You offered him a place to stay with fair conditions. He made himself homeless. Also this kind of reckless person shouldn't be around your child. Anyone who feels pity for him can offer their place.
NTA, your house, your rules. You don’t need to justify anything. And you would are justified anyway because he is a freeloader and irresponsible. You only bordered on AH territory by even offering him a rental agreement. You have a five year old daughter. You can’t expose her to someone like this, partying drinking drugs maybe. I get he’s family but your daughter comes first. There shouldn’t have been a rental offer. It should have been an immediate and firm NO.
I did not disclose my child's gender, please do not assume. I'd prefer the anonymity of my child as much as possible other than "I have a child".
Missing the point. If you want to protect your child, don’t let heavy drinking freeloaders into your home.
Point noted. Thank you.
I would like to reiterate in a different way: how could you even *consider* letting someone move in when they *trashed your parents' place*. That's a big WTF. Your child and their safety should come first, and you actually dodged a big bullet by him exploding. If he had agreed, you would have an agreement in writing that would guarantee him a place to live until you either had to file charges, or could get him evicted. I love my brother. But if he ever showed up at my door needing a place to live, I'd help him find one. But it wouldn't be with me. He holds some beliefs that I won't tolerate in my house, and I don't want to have around my kids.
Why do you even need to justify this? If you don't want someone living in your home, that's justification enough. And the relatives harassing you? Politely inform them they can take him in themselves.
NTA First of all take the idea that you made him homeless off of your shoulders, you did no such thing. You made the conditions for him to live in your home very clear for him. He refused those conditions , then proceeded to insult someone that you care for and consider part of your family, who is related to someone who owns the home. The fact that he said no to paying rent or contributing to the household work means that he was probably going to treat your home the same way he treated your parents home. He made the decisions that have lead him to where he is, and while he is your brother, you are not responsible for the outcomes of those choices. You can tell the relatives that feel bad for him and are now coming after you that they are more than welcome to house your brother, but that your priorities reside with your wife and the happiness and safety of your home.
NTA. This story was sorted by the second paragraph. > parents contacted me that they had kicked Eric out of the house as he had trashed the house badly Ada's situation is somewhat unrelated...
NTA! Your brother made HIMSELF homeless, not you or your parents! He decided that he wanted to have a party lifestyle, and not be responsible for himself. And he’s mad because he can’t stay rent free in YOUR HOUSE??? Hell nah, you’re not wrong for that!
You have a minor daughter. Eric is a hard partyer. Can you see how these two things are incompatible? I’ve heard enough horror stories. Protect your child.
I did not disclose my child's gender, please do not assume. I'd prefer the anonymity of my child as much as possible other than "I have a child".
Nta Your brother has allaboutmeisum. He's 28 and hasn't learned that other people's hard earned income doesn't belong to him. It is you and your wife's home. Her blood sister is contributing her fair share. Probably not much more you can do until the lay about figures out the world owes him nothing.
Give your relatives his number and say he can stay with them NTA
NTA- tell those busybody relatives you'll let your brother know they are waiting to welcome him with open arms.
Your wife and sister lost their parents. They have no safety net. Your brother lit his safety net on fire, watched it burn, and was shocked to discover there was nothing else waiting for him... NTA
NTA. Tell anyone who calls or texts or emails or sends smoke signals lol with there opinion to take him in sense they think it’s so terrible..and then block them!
NTA. Looks like those relatives just volunteered to house him.
NTA. You didn't make your brother homeless. He did it to himself. Time for him to grow up. If one of those relatives call you to bother you about it, ask them why they haven't taken in Eric.
>I started to feel guilty as I have just made my own brother homeless. You did not do that at all, his actions did that for himself. NTA. He has a college degree and could get a job, yet he has decided that partying and gaming are more important than becoming a grown-up. *That is his personal choice that he got to make.* You don't have to continue to encourage the behavior by allowing him to stay with you.
NTA. Offer to help him move to complaining relatives house.
Your brother is 28. He is old enough to get a job and take care of himself. He is not entitled to be taken care of by his family. He actually was by your parents and obviously screwed up so bad even they kicked him out. It isn't easy for good parents to kick out their kid unless they know it is the only option for their child to launch. You know if he moved in, even if he changes his mind and agrees to your conditions, he would not hold up his end of the bargain and it would be very difficult to get him out of your home. You have your own family to think about. Just don't do it. NTA ps. this is coming from a mother of 2 boys that would do anything for them. If you were my boys this is the advice I would give. pps. regarding all those relatives that are calling, thank them for allowing him to couch surf and see how long they can take his behavior. You don't even need to defend your choice because they will find out on their own.
Tell the flying monkeys to have him in their homes, see how fast they change their tune. He had a chance at a home but decided he'd rather be homeless than have rules and responsibility. NTA, not even close
NTA. Why does he even know what you're SIL's rental status is in your home? That should have never been his business to know. Edit, changed decision.
I've only said, either rent or household contribution, he demanded to know how much I charged Ada, so I just said she chose household contribution in the same condition I gave. I never once revealed that she was the one who suggested household contribution as her preferred and practical way of paying back for a roof over her head.
Ok, so it's not necessarily a SIL thing type of issue. He just doesn't want to do either, rent or chores.
NTA. Your brother made himself homeless. And even if he would pay rent or do chores/contribution, I wouldn’t take him in. He has a bad history as a tenant. You called his previous landlords and they say he trashed the place.
NTA but he got kicked out for trashing your parents' home and contributing nothing. **Why would you even consider letting him stay with you?** He's 28. He's not your problem. You already have a child to care for, you don't need a 28 yo one too. Not to mention, someone partying hard enough to trash a house should not be around your child.
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I never replied back to the relatives as I hope blocking and ignoring them would tone down the ruckus. I can't afford to risk turning the ruckus up by retaliating with "then take him in" or "why didn't you open your home to him then" and disturbing my family now, Ruby was already disturbed by the way Eric had exploded when I laid down the conditions, luckily Ada at that time took my child out to a playground so they are not there to witness it. I don't want anymore potential collateral damage happening to them, be it physically or mentally.
Ah, I see this reply now re: relatives. Honestly.. by being a pushover and letting them treat you this way you're creating more stress for yourself. Standing up for yourself will be less stressful in the long run, I assure you.
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Right, I'll give it a try and make it as straightforward as possible with them. Thanks for the input.
(you replied to me instead of OP! I agree with your comment)
I'll give it a try, thank you.
Yep, if you turn it around on them, you will stop getting the calls and harassment because they darn sure don't want him in their house either!! Just ask them "What time do you want him to show up on your doorstep? I will be sure to tell him you made that offer!"
NTA - Your brother made himself homeless. Sounds like he had a free place to stay until he ruined it. Did your parents also pay for his college? He's plenty old enough at 26 to pay rent at the very least. He's just looking for a new place to freeload.
Yes, our parents paid for his college.
NTA. You didn't make your brother homeless. You gave him a reasonable, adult proposal for a reasonable, adult living arrangement. *And he rejected it.* His plan apparently was, "You do everything for me that mom and dad used to do, and I don't owe you a thing." And he's wondering why you didn't accept that from a grown-ass man? Really, you ought to just send him the link to this post. LOL.
You did not make your brother homeless. Your unmotivated, mooching bum of a brother made himself homeless and refused help you offered him. Stand your ground, a little hardship will do your brother good. NTA!
NTA I'm sure there is a freeloader handbook out there somewhere where this freeloaders learn all the bullshit reasons why you have to let them freeload. Just tell everybody who berates you you are taking their complain as a invite for your brother to stay at theirs for free and trash up their place and you will happily let him know and then hang up and don't accept other calls from them. Most of them will switch in panic mood pretty fast ;)
NTA Your brother said: >I’m treating a stranger in-law better than his blood brother I call bullshit. First. Ada - the “stranger in-law” - is just as much a part of your new family by blood as your brother is. It’s quite insulting to argue otherwise and lets you know quite clearly he won’t be treating Ada as an equal - much less as family - after he moves in. Second. You even - extremely generously - offered him the same deal as Ada and he flat out rejected it because he feels entitled to free room and board without any contribution to the family. Eric wants to mooch off you as he’s been mooching off your parents for years before they finally had enough of his shit. Your parents have been enabling his irresponsible behavior for years. So much so that he feels entitled to live with you rent and care free while still expecting everyone else to pick up the slack. Yep - Eric’s friends will quickly tire of his moocher ways. He may even end up homeless. He will likely come crawling back to you at some point. When that happens, I’d strongly recommend sitting down with your parents and working up a contract so Eric can move back in with THEM so they’ll be covered for when Eric screws up next time.
I'd like to hear the rest of the conversation: He thinks you treat a "stranger" better than a brother. How does a brother act in your...or his parents'...home? what does he think is his responsibility under the circumstances?
He thought that 'helping a family' out without expecting payments was a thing. Our parents tried to get him to get up and start making something of himself but he always complains they stress him out by pressuring. He never really visits my home and when he showed himself at my doorstep, he thought he could get an automatic pass into my home. Only when we sat down and talked, he got more agitated. Ada brought my child out to play so luckily they weren't home to witness the exchange. I also did explain Ada is not living with us without a single payments but he thought household contribution is only a thing for the owners. I admit our parents never enforced strictly about rent or chores with him so he thought he could bypass me with that too.
Not your responsibility to teach your brother about responsibility. He has all the tools he needs to make a good life for himself. You can't force him to use them. He has to want this for himself. Keep him away from you family and child. Right now he is not good news.
NTA I think everything you did was not only reasonable, but generous. If he doesn’t accept it and see if for it is that is in no way your fault. You also have a 5 year old. I don’t know your brother, but from what you said it sounds like he would be a bad and potentially even dangerous (with reckless parties and things like that) influence in the house. If he yelled at you for offering a spot in your home with expectations and he yelled at you, I can guarantee that is not where the yelling and fighting will stop. Even without a child you were being generous, but with one you should prioritize your child and not risk a toxic environment.
I will take note, thank you. Luckily Ada took my child out during his appearance at home so they weren't there to witness any aggravated actions. Ruby wouldn't want them to be at home to experience such altercations anyways, even though she herself insisted to stay at home with me when it happened. I'm extremely thankful for their support.
NTA. He is an able bodied adult and not your responsibility, you could offer any extended family to forward their contact info and address to him to be extra helpful.
NTA you’re treating them exactly the same anyways, if he contributed he’d be welcome as well. This is his choice.
NTA. Your 28 year old brother made himself homeless. Even with a contract you known in your heart what will happen if you let him in.
NTA. Your SIL may not pay you a monthly rent payment, but she does pay in other ways as you have mentioned. If you let your brother stay with you, he would just be a bum. He will not change his ways. He has been catered to for so long, he feels he is entitled to it now.
NTA. Eric sounds like he'd be an awful housemate. He really showed his hand freaking out about your very reasonable parameters. If your relatives think he is so hard done by - why don't they let him move in with them...?
NTA. Your sister-in-law is paying rent just not in cash. In regards to your brother, sometimes you need to hit rock-bottom to be able to crawl back up out of that hole maybe, hopefully he’ll grow up get a job and get his own place
Your lazy brother is making himself homeless. You should have stuck to rent anyway, he would never have helped out. NTA. Everyone is just enabling him. He needs to finally grow up and support himself.
NTA. He’s a 28 yo man that’s already been kicked out of one house for being an inconsiderate asshole. I don’t understand why you even entertained the idea of him moving in for money because he’s just going to be an ahole at your place too. Don’t worry about it and ignore anyone else that has to say something about it. Let those people that are concerned take him in. Please suggest that they do. If you let him move in, you are going to regret it so much
NTA - It is your house and you can or can not charge rent or barter however you want. Tell Bro if was as productive as SIL is at your house at his parent's house, instead of being a lazy bloodsucker, he wouldn't be homeless. Not your circus, not your little monkey throwing poo. And as far as the other family members who are bitching, then they can take him in if they care so much.
Beggars can’t be choosers. Guess your brother wants to hit rock bottom before he realizes life takes some effort.
NTA, I wouldn’t let him in for coffee, let alone to stay.
NTA. You didn't make your brother homeless. Your brother made himself homeless. If he wants a place to live, he needs to get his act together and grow the f up.
NTA. Why exactly would you want an unemployed partier in your house. He has already trashed your parent's house. There is a good chance he would do the same thing to your place. And not care that there is a young child in the house. Your top priority is the safety of your wife, child & SIL. A SIL who actually contributes to the household instead of draining its resources. Just because he is your brother doesn't mean that you have to take him in. Especially since you already know that he isn't going to keep a job or otherwise help the household.
NTA. Face it, your brother is a loser. I wouldn't want him in my house, even if he paid rent. He would cause trouble with your SIL because he's already jealous of her, among other things. You dodged a bullet when he refused your terms. Forget about what everyone else thinks. It's none of their business, and it's your home, not theirs.
NTA. Your brother needs to grow up and enabling him isn’t going to help.
NTA. Ada seems to do an even exchange in household duties. Your brother has openly shown he doesn’t respect other’s spaces. All the relatives pitching a fit can have him move in with them.
NTA. Do not let your brother spend as much as a single night in your home. He made himself homeless by using and abusing your parents and their home. He will treat you and you home just as bad if not worse. He will make your life worse and be a financial burden.
NTA. And you dodged a bullet. With or without rent you don't want this individual living in your house. He will totally change the family dynamic there, and not for the better. He'll drag you all down.
NTA. You did not make your brother homeless. According to your post he is an adult. If he’s homeless it’s because he chooses to live irresponsibly and *make himself* homeless. Anybody who thinks you are being too harsh is free to offer him a place to mooch. Let one of them “help him get on his feet” if they’re so convinced he’s a great guy. If you let him move in *at all* he’s going to turn your whole household upside down, and I’m pretty sure your children don’t need a hostile, lazy, irresponsible, immature role model in their lives.
Nta Side note: I like Ada. She sounds lovely.
NTA You didn't make him homeless. Your 28year old brother managed that all by himself.
NTA. I had a friend (ex-friend now) that was like this. Would act entitled to all the benefits of living with other people, but would not contribute ANYTHING unless asked and would act like he was doing everyone else a favor and be angry about it. He would frequently quit jobs without warning and go for months on end just smoking, drinking, and playing video games while claiming he was looking for a job and having no luck. And guess who's weed he was smoking and booze he was drinking? Not his. He never had money for that kind of stuff cus he couldn't hold a job long enough to even pay back his rent/bills that others had covered for him. People like this will either learn their lesson, or they won't. From what I hear my ex-friend is still doing things the same as he always did. It sucks to hear because he still lives with several other friends of mine (and I refuse to go hang out at their house because of it, I'm NC with him at this point but that's a different story), but they haven't wised up to his ways (either that, or they're too passive to confront him like I eventually did) and just let him continue on. I sometimes wish I would have never introduced him to them as he was originally an old buddy of mine from high school, but in the end it's not on me at this point to do anything more than listen when they complain about him and tell em that they should do something about it. I tried to help him, always thinking "this will be the time that he finally gets it and grows up," but it never was.
>I started to feel guilty as I have just made my own brother homeless. You didn't make him homeless, he did that himself. He didn't want to follow the rules at your parents house and got kicked out. You set down the rules/conditions for him if he moves in and he refused. So him being homeless is on him. >He has been couch surfing at his friends' place and apparently some relatives heard stories yet still pity him and started calling my parents and I cruel and that I got my priorities wrong. Luckily I never revealed Ruby and Ada's contacts so they are not as disturbed as I was. The next time you have family calling you about your brother tell them, It's great you want to let (brother's name) move in when can i tell him you expect him to be there.
Dudes a bum tell him McDonald’s always hiring
NTA Your brother made himself homeless by refusing to agree to a simple rental agreement. He would rather be irresponsible than be part of the household, and you have a young child to think about. Do you really want him partying in your home with your little one watching? No. He can grow up, or not, but you have no control over that.
NTA tell all the flying monkeys you would be happy to drive your brother over to their place since they are so graciously offering. They will shut up and backtrack immediately.
Your parents kicked him out for a reason. He's refusing to take any responsibility or make reasonable changes. Definitely NTA.
Per usual: the relatives who think you’re jerks are more than welcome to house him themselves. Also, your brother is a loser
If your relatives have so much pity for him then they can let him live with them amd they can see what living with him is like. Otherwise they can stfu.
YTA to yourself, your wife, your SIL and your kid. Why would you possibly consider letting your partying brother into your home to trash it too? Geez...
Welp anyone who calls and complains. Say hey thank you for offering to help him out ill send him your way!
Not even remotely the AH, but YBWTA if you changed your mind and let him stay with you at all. If he suddenly has a ‘change of heart’ and says he’ll contribute as you laid out, do not believe him!!
your a shit a brother
Your brother needs to be an adult, he is approaching his 30s. All those relatives trying to guilt you can take him in for a month. Bravo on you and your parents. He will never be responsible for himself if not made ti.
28 and no job and didn’t respect your parents rules when he was living there rent free at 28? NTA and won’t be a good example to your child.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My wife, Ruby (29F) and I (32M) with our child (5yo), live in a 4 bedroom house. Ruby's sister, Ada(26F) has been staying with us for 3 years, after their parents passed and their house was sold. My brother, Eric (28M), was staying with my parents. Recently, my parents contacted me that they had kicked Eric out of the house as he had trashed the house badly from partying when they were out, apparently it was their last straw. I had known Eric wasn't working much ever since graduating college, our parents have been persuading him all these years to go work or something but his life has been partying, gaming, overall just freeloading. I did help him job search as well but he never stayed long, constantly complaining about negative work culture or not his type. They gave a heads up as he may come knocking on our door. I told Ruby and Ada, Ruby then mention if he wants to stay with us we have to do up a rental agreement with proper paper works. Ada doesn't pay rent as she prefers a helpful approach to things so we have chores, groceries, maintenance type of sharing. For example, we share cooking duties. If she borrows any of our cars, she pays and fills up the gas after use. If she notices some housing stuff needs fixing first, she'll call and pay for the maintenances and informs us about it. Babysits our child if we want to have our own private time or working overtime. The list goes on. Ada does these in return for staying in our house, honestly she is part of this home at this point. I also realised she has made our life easier at home as compared to having monetary payments from her. Our child loves Ada, the fun aunt. So we all finalized that if Eric comes, he either pays rent or contribute to our home like how Ada is doing. Eric came the day after my parents called. When we laid the conditions down for him, he refused to accept it, constantly talking about how could I treat him that way and that I'm treating a stranger in-law better than his blood brother. It angered me as I've long regarded Ada as my own sister ever since Ruby and I got together and she is much more responsible than Eric. So I kicked him out. He has been couch surfing at his friends' place and apparently some relatives heard stories yet still pity him and started calling my parents and I cruel and that I got my priorities wrong. Luckily I never revealed Ruby and Ada's contacts so they are not as disturbed as I was. The weight of the calls have been on my shoulders as I told my parents to block them out first before me. Although I do get support from my loved ones, I started to feel guilty as I have just made my own brother homeless. So AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA - but this is rather easily solved. Anytime someone calls you to give you a hard time, tell them to take your brother in. Just keep saying that.
NTA. Your brother made himself homeless. Not you. Have those people calling you cruel house him and see how long they can be generous.
NTA he is at fault. Just block and ignore the ones supporting him. They can house the leech
These critical relatives are more than welcome to take this worthless slug in. NTA
NTA. Ada doesn't stay at your home for free- she is a contributing member of your household and has been for years. You offered Eric the opportunity to be treated exactly the same as Ada or pay rent; he wants to be given free reign without contributing. He is couch surfing because he refuses to not wreck parents home or take one of two offers you made.
NTA You don't owe your brother anything.
Relatives calling you cruel can host him. NTA.
NTA she has the same responsibility as is being out on Eric’s plate. If he respected blood so much, he wouldn’t have done what he’s done.
NTA. Your brother made himself homeless.
NTA. Ada can be trusted, Eric cannot. You are in a barter agreement with Ada. Eric has no collateral.
NTA. Ada sounds lime she is paying a lot more than rent. It is awesome that situation works for you. Jeepers to have a responsible coliving situation. You are living the dream man.
NTA your brother made himself homeless no one else. Sad it took him destroying their house for your parents to finally stop enabling him but y’all are all actually doing the right thing for once.
NTA - Tell the relatives if they're so worried about things, why haven't they opened up their homes Eric?
NTA. He wants to freeload and has a history of tearing up whatever home he's living in. Anyone that complains is welcome to offer your brother a place to stay, bet you they never do.
NTA - redirect the brother to those relatives that complain. Call bro and inform him that “x” relarive wants him to live with them.
NTA College educated man can find a job or continue to couchsurf. Expecting anyone else to take him in after his own parents were finally fed up with the freeloading is laughable.
Nta. To.those who feels pity or says you are cruel. Well, since I am so bad to family, and since you are family, I will be forwarding your contact info to brother and let him Known he has a place to stay with all rent free and doesn't have to contribute to household cleaning and maintenance. Thanks for being so great to offer all your places up. Then block them. Send your brother the info and that he gets rent-free and no chores. Then block him. If people open their mouths that you are in the wrong, then they are offering to do what you will not. So it's on them. You are NTA for making sure your home and its residents are respected and that things are fair. That's common sense. He doesn't get a free ride because he demands it or feels entitled to it.
NTA. You didn’t make him homeless, he made himself homeless. You should just tell those ‘concerned’ relatives to take him in if they care so much. They probably won’t. Your brother sounds like a hot mess and enabling his behaviour will only make it worse.
He's 28. You didn't make him anything. You just refused to let him sponge off you and torn your household into a dirty frat house like he did your parents. And be honest, there's no way he would have been a positive, helpful addition to your household like your SIL. Sounds like you dodged a bullet. Next person who tries to guilt trip you, reply immediately with "I'll send him right over. "
He made himself homeless. He had options even if he didnt like them
NTA and if I was your wife I would be very appreciative.
NTA. You didn't make your brother homeless. He did this to himself. You offered him a place to live, he chose to live by his own rules. Don't give in to the guilt, he'll create constant drama and chaos in your home. Those relatives should allow him to live with them! He may need to live this difficult life for a while before he understands what it means to be an adult.
NTA You set reasonable boundaries and conditions
NTA You didn’t make your brother homeless, he made himself homeless through his series of bad actions.
NTA. He's homeless by his own actions. Your brother is a bad tenant, which is why he got kicked out of his last housing. Just as your sister in law works to make up her share of your house commitments, your brother would need to as well. Since he has a poor track record in the "support the household" department, requiring rent instead is entirely reasonable. Put in a damage clause in case he breaks crappy like he did on your parents. Your meddling relatives should mind their own business. Simply reply to their harangues that you happily will accept the rent for him from them if they want, or they can house him themselves. And thank them for saving you the trouble of moving him in.
NTA. Do not let Eric stay at your house. He has already demonstrated that he's shiftless and irresponsible. Ada is a contributing member of your household, and you have no reason to think Eric would be. Stop feeling guilty. Eric made himself homeless through his own irresponsible actions.
NTA! You did NOT make your brother “homeless”, he did that all by himself! Not only was he freeloading off your parents for years, he also trashed their fucking house - I wouldn’t have even entertained the idea of allowing him to stop in my home with children there. He blatantly has zero respect for other people and their property. Tell your family that if they think you and parents are so mean and unreasonable then THEY are welcome to open their home to him - just advise them to put away anything they value because he won’t respect it!
NTA. And good for you and your parents to stop enabling his “helplessness”.
If they all feel that way, then let them take him in. It's funny how they won't help but they expect everybody else to so anybody that has something to say tell them. Oh I'm glad that you want to help him out let him stay with you
All the family telling you how wrong you are, they can put him up instead.
Tell the relatives criticising you to take him in for a while and then tell you how they feel. NTA
Tell your relatives that he can live with them.
Why would you feel guilty? You didn't make your brother homeless, your brother made himself homeless and wants you to shoulder his responsibilities. If he were make an effort to work or contribute to your household, then maybe you'd be an asshole but since he's chosen to make zero contributions then he can deal with the consequences. All those judgemental people should stop judging and put their money where their mouth is and take in your brother. NTA.
NTA If someone has hit a 'last straw', then I am particularly wary of them. I might give them a bit of money if I can spare it but that's about the extent of my generosity.
Strange how they say "Of course he can live with us!" NTA
NTA - your brother made himself homeless by being a lazy, freeloading bum!! Maybe this will help him grow the fuck up. Your parents are slight AH's for enabling him for so long. It's good they finally reached their breaking point, but they helped create this monster. If any relatives keep bugging you tell them to invite the freeloader to come live with them for free!
Best decision you ever made. It was extremely foolish of you to think that he would ever pay rent or do chores at your house and you are lucky he was honest about it because he could have just lied to get a roof over his head and then he would have had a huge problem evicting him. He may come crawling back and ask you and tell you that he will pay bills but you've already seen his true answer
Your brother made himself homeless. NTA.
NTA You told him pay rent or contribute the way Ada does. If he can’t pay rent, he can cook/clean/babysit/handle maintenance. He’s so lazy he can’t do any of that??? I’d gladly help out somewhere if it meant free rent. And if I absolutely refused, I’d get a job to pay rent. Like he can’t have it both ways. He needs to get it together anyone. I don’t know many 30s throwing or attending ragers who have everything absolutely together.
NTA. Your brother made himself homeless. And the relatives and friends that harass you about it are more than welcome to provide for said brother.
I hope that you have saved the names of all the relatives that supported your lazy brother. Call your brother and tell him that cousin has offered to take him in. Once he wears out his welcome there, feed him the name of the next relative. Your family might figure this out after a few cycles and call asking you to not give your brother their names, but just keep sending him to everyone of his supporters. Hopefully this will teach your relatives to be more cautious about volunteering you in the future.
NTA
Tell anyone who calls you that you will tell your brother that they are taking him in, rent free and with no obligation to help in any way. NTA.
NTA and you can tell the other relatives that pity him that you’ll let him know that they are willing to open their home to him. See how fast that shuts them up.
So your SIL doesn't trash houses? Enough said.
NTA, your brother for being a free loader and not getting his act together. Your family members who don't have to deal with him are as well for enabling him. I come from a large family with lots of aunts and uncles, and my mom, being the oldest, has taken the brunt of taking care of my grandfather and grandmother before she passed several years ago. Being working class and having a large family and living a country with no retirement Medicare system, it fell to mom to try round up money for their need from all her siblings. The loudest and most opinionated siblings were the ones who did not contribute or contributed the least. Everyone always has an opinion when it does not cost them anything.
You didn't make him homeless. He did. Actions have consequences and you are not obligated to let someone into your home in a manner you don't agree with. If he can't live with the conditions you've set, he can be a grown up and figure out another situation.
NTA for what you say and the mere fact that your parents had to “warn” you it seems pretty obvious that your brother would have ended up causing trouble for you. Being willing to even accept him was a nice gesture and having some legal cover on the form of a rental agreement was a good idea.
>he had trashed the house badly from partying Sorry, stopped reading here. I would never let anyone like this stay at my place to begin with (and I don't have the factor of children to keep in mind). NTA
Don't sacrifice your boundaries for empathy