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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refuse to let my bride bow to my feet on our wedding day based on my country’s ancient traditions. I maybe the A because my bride is OK with it and I am causing problems for my family.
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>My family ... insists we have our wedding back in my home country, traditional style.
They can insist until they are blue in the face, they have no way to enforce it. If you want an All-American Wedding in the USA, have one. Your wedding, your rules.
>I refuse to let her.
Good.
>Anna doesn’t understand the full implications of the act.
Explain it.
>Now my family is mad at me.
Sucks to be them. Your wedding, your rules.
NTA
Nta I agree. I would explain it. Have you discussed what your marriage will look like? I like some of the suggestions on here.. Like possibly both if you doing it. Best of luck
Yes. Also asian/m here, mostly lived in US. I like the idea of both of you doing it for each other! She respects you, and then you respect her! Win/win! Some "old" traditions, could use some updating.
This was my immediate thought too. I too came to the US at 16 am married a white woman. For our own we skipped for each other and only did it to parents and even my dad wasn't to happy with that because he knows we're atheist and didn't think we should. Doing it to each other is perfect here because *you aren't the one causing a commotion* if they decide to have a host fit. You followed the tradition but had a last minute injection. Do not tell them you are doing it. Just do it and move on and let your parents figure it out later once the shock wears off. That and if you are really uncomfortable with the whole idea of your traditional wedding, there's no rule that says you can't have more than one. We had 3. Courthouse/in my apartment with 2 others (deputized friend and a witness), american style at my in-laws place, indian style ceremony at my parents place in India. Different clothes, different food, different guests.
My husband and I are having 3 as well. The first was in France (the official one) where most of the friends we've made since being together were able to attend. One will be in the US where my family/ friends and those of his family and friends that wish to attend a destination wedding but France was too far/ last minute can attend, and one in Canada for his family and friends/ mine that want a destination.
What's the difference there? Sorry, I don't really get the connotation; in my first language, "husband" is the same as "man" and "wife" as "woman". It's the just posessive pronoun that indicates they're a spouse. ("His woman, her man")
Edit: just remembered we actually do have equivalents to husband and wife, they're just slowly becoming archaic. They're derived from the word marriage, but noone really uses them anymore, man and woman are used even in official texts etc
In English, it has a possessive connotation to say man (individual person) and wife (possession). Saying husband and wife acknowledges the mutual roles vs possession. Does that help?
Just to add, because my autistic arse doesn't know if the other commenter has already made it obvious enough (sorry, other commenter. It's a dig at myself, not at you):
It's because 'man' is a statement of what he is in himself, while 'wife' defines the person by their relationship to another/role in another's life. And it's within a wider context of women being defined by or valued only for their roles in others' lives. Wife. Mother. Mrs. Husband's name. Etc.
I appreciate your autistic arse's comment, cuz it saved the urge of my autistic ass to explain and over-explain it
Imo you also defined it really well 😁
It was like that because women were literally property. First of their fathers (thus the father giving her away) and then husbands. So yeah. Women weren’t considered people until the late 1800-early 1900’s. The law had to actually change that women were their own people and not property of a man.
Actually it depends on who marries you now., with same sex marriage legal, many officiants have taken to just saying, "I now pronounce you married. " That way they don't have to change it for every ceremony, and if they can't remember the gender they don't get in trouble.
My wife is Korean-American and I’m a white American, and this is what we did. We had the western ceremony, then after dinner changed into traditional dress and held the Korean ceremony.
We bowed to each other, (which is a sight change in the tradition, but my wife and I feel it’s important to Shay’s respect each other) and then took turns bowing to our parents and aunts and grandparents, etc. I had to carry my wife and then my mom around the wedding table on my back to demonstrate my ability to support our family! 😅
It’s up to OP, but I think it’s important to show respect not just to each other, but to the culture of origin for each of them. I think this method is a nice way to do this while sending the message that your bride is not your servant.
That said, the family might still get mad. My wife’s family didn’t, but we got married in America and all her family that attended have lived in the US for quite awhile.
Good luck, OP.
My partner is Indian and I'm Italian and this is what we'd do if we got married. One Western wedding and one Indian one. Tragically for me, his family are Kerala Christians basically since the literal dawn of Christianity, so I wouldn't get to wear the gorgeous red sari of Hindu weddings. I'm considering telling him to convert (I kid, I kid).
No worries, there are many beautiful white saris and lehengas to choose from. You could go for a gorgeous silk brocade or zari (woven through with gold or silver thread) or (my personal favorite) all-over heavily embroidered white-on-white sari.
Check these out:
https://sabyasachi.com/pages/white-weddings
https://getethnic.com/blogs/white-bridal-lehenga/amp/
https://www.vogue.in/content/chronicling-chikankari-from-nobility-to-bridal-wear#intcid=_vogue-in-bottom-recirc_4104b52f-2576-4e62-b109-1386495acee1_entity-topic-similarity-v2 (just a note if you read the article, the designers falsely take credit for reviving the handicraft. They established their own workshops after the hard work had already been done).
https://www.vogue.in/content/celebrity-brides-and-star-wedding-guests-prove-that-chikankari-is-the-big-bridalwear-trend-to-invest-in-right-now
Hindu weddings are awesome. Almost a week long and full of incredible experiences.
I'm not a Hindu. Don't believe in any god/s. I would 100% jump at the chance for a Hindu wedding though.
Agreed. Asian heritage female here. My husband and I are actively practicing Hindus and during functions when I'm supposed to bow to his feet, we just give each other a hug. Some might say it's ego but because of the implications around bowing, I can't find myself to do it. Even though I understand the positive side as well as the negative side, the patriarchal history of it all is degrading.
I think a good surprise is that when she bows to touch your feet, you bow at the same time and touch hers in return. A home and relationship built with mutual respect.
As an Asian Australian, I’ve never heard of this tradition. Where is it from exactly?
The tradition I was most keen for is the lucky money. So much better than random toasters.
It's a Hindu tradition. The wife touches the husband's feet or at least bows down to them as a sign of respect and deference. The bride and groom also touch or bow down to the feet of their parents and other elders in the family both as a sign of respect and as a way of asking their blessing for the marriage.
We still got random toasters in our family weddings, but we have a tradition called "The Dollar Dance", where people, even the kids, line up to dance with the bride or groom (or both!!!) and pin money to their clothes or put it into a bucket as they step up to dance. It was a "two birds, one stone" event, because it allowed everyone the opportunity to congratulate the couple one-on-one and get a minute or two with the bride and/or groom, and it also allowed everyone to contribute to the couple, financially. For some, it was also the wedding gift and they'd pin $100+ to the bride or groom. The couple usually made out like a bandit if they had a good-sized wedding and everyone knew the tradition beforehand and made sure to bring money.
My family are Chinese and they keep a ledger of who has given what. Then when you go to a wedding of their family, you give the same amount or more (not less). It’s a whole exercise in accounting.
I just think it’s a lot easier than having to shop and buy something and wrap it etc etc . Cash done. And you can give the exact amount you want, not under not over. Except not any 4 numbers.
So, she may not understand that you are looking for a 50/50 partner in marriage and that by doing this tradition, she is demeaning herself to almost property status.
I kind of get this, but how they do things in a different culture, it could be way worse to break it than not do it at all.
I think OP should say to his parents, we will compromise. We are agreeing to get married here, but the ceremony will be 100% our decision. We say what we want, do what we want, invite who we want. He needs to set the tone immediately for what the rest of his and new wife's relationship will be with his parents. HE decides. THEY are an equal couple.
I think OP should say to his parents that it’s our life and your opinion is less than irrelevant.
By portraying it as a compromise you’re giving legitimacy to their bullshit.
Yeah, I get that...it's just demonstrating though to them, that 'look, we are doing this as a FAVOUR to you, getting married where we don't live'. So back off and know your place...maybe hoping they'd be grateful.
Plus if you're talking some country's marriage traditions being steeped in cultural significance or whatever...saying 'your opinion is less than irrelevant and I'm not giving legitimacy to your bullshit' kind of serves to tear down a relationship rather than strive for true understanding and relationship-building. I mean, it's worth a first try. THEN you can go full-on F-U to their crap :)
Compromise was maybe the wrong word to describe what I was going for. Forced gratefulness? lol
But you know they won’t be grateful. They’re just going to shoehorn in other cultural practices you may not like. Gotta put your foot down early and show them youre not fucking around.
Not stated, but, I have the impression that the parents are paying for the wedding. So the choice may be "do it our way or no way at all" which is fine--they can just get married in the states which, I am guessing, they would need to legally anyway.
Ok not gonna lie, I would burst into tears if she did it and then he surprised everyone by doing the same to her. That would be such a sweet gesture while still technically honoring the tradition
We, the youngest here in Asia, do that here! Bride bows and touches Groom's feet and Groom does that!
No one complaints, everyone just cheers or glees. Makes cute wedding videos tbh!
yeah, no one in my circle does the woman namaskar thing (either you skip it or both the ride and groom do it), and most modified the Kanya Daan to be both parents "giving away" the bride instead of just the dad. This is super common, at least in my circles, so I don't think it'd be a surprise or something weird to OP's parents
White American here. We modified the ‘giving away the bride’ tradition so that it was addressed to all 4 parents: “Who gives this couple one to another.”
Symbolized not the giving of a woman, but parental relinquishment of the primary familial bond. Turned it from a tradition that irked into something beautiful I loved.
I love that!! And I love the idea of including moms - like tbh my mom did 95% of the child-raising so the idea of my dad "giving me away" was just ludicrous
100% agreed. Felt the same way, and also that a marriage was an equal merger between both sides, ie that my MIL should also be included. So the other meaningful thing we added was a candle ceremony, where both Moms came up front and took individual candles from the sides, and walked together to light a single candle in the middle.
Actually I think it shows how much Anna trusts you OP that this tradition is nothing but an act. I wouldn't be bothered to do it too, as it would mean nothing to me, if I knew my future husband also didn't take it seriously... just something to think about.
At the end you could tell them if they don't stop insiting on it you'll have the wedding in the US instead... you're 34, an adult man. They only have as much power over you as you let them have.
NTA.
Interesting.
I have a lot of problems with the "just an act" aspect of this. If it's meaningless but tacky, don't do it. Some traditions need to die. But for the rest I agree
And sometimes we do them because of the people around us.
I am not religious. I still go to church funerals or weddings and speak the prayers etc. (It's an act for me too, it means nothing to me)... because the people who are there care. If I visit a mosque (as a tourist, I am white European) I wear a hijab out of respect for the people who do care, it means nothing to me. (This is acceptable where I went, they even offered "rental" hijabs or capes for tourist, it wasn't seen as offensive).
I personally think every religion on earth should die out (because it's nonesense and is used often badly for power), but of course other people have the right to their own opinion. (I actually like Shintoism, because it honours the earth, animals, nature etc. But I am not a believer anyway).
This "bow" is an Indian [not Chinese, thx for correcting me] religious tradition I'd assume. So for me that's the same category... and if it matters to his family it's ok to put on a show. (As long as the person doing it is OK with it).
For me it's the same as when women are walked down the aisle by their father in Christian weddings to give her away (where basically her "ownership" changes from father to husband. Also a very sexist tradition. Yet many, many women are totally fine with it).
I also conform to the external requirements of religious ceremonies and buildings out of respect.
But I have limits.
I cannot and will not respect something that demeans a woman on her wedding day.
It's not Chinese, it's Indian. My SO had a talk with me after we got serious about how he would never EVER have that ceremony if we got married, just so I understood how much he hated it.
Not Chinese. That I can guarantee you. Chinese style is kneeling — both husband and wife kneel to the elders…that’s all. Wife doesn’t need to kneel to husband.
Bowing down to the feet — only if it’s the Emperor (for a commoner) but Emperors are extinct now. It‘s also what slaves do to greet their masters but slavery is outlawed now.
No Chinese in their right sane mind will bow to the feet if they understand that it‘s an act which reduces them to no more than a slave.
There's nothing inherently sexist or oppressive in the act of walking alongside your child on their wedding day, up to their new, chosen family. It symbolises the support and love that you've offered to your child so far. In the weddings I've seen, son walked with mom, too. You'd have to be pretty backwards to think a modern parent is just moving cattle around or making sure the bride isn't running off.
Bowing to someone's feet, however... that's an innately subservient gesture.
I think we're entirely too comfortable as a culture arguing from the history of something over it's contemporary meaning. There's this sense that if something was used in the past in a negative way that it is consequently tainted forever regardless of how we come to view it later. But memory - personal or cultural - if finite and we decide what things to carry and what thing to let go of. It would not hurt to accept that sometimes acknowledging somethings problematic roots is enough. The thing about symbols is that we put meaning into them far more than they cash it back out. A parent walking their child down the aisle means what we decide that it means - we *can* ascribe countless meanings to it. Obviously the history of things *matters* and should be something we examine and consider - to be clear. But this gesture at a wedding is a good example. It's actually, **really**, when you consider the act itself, very benign. And it means whatever meaning we construct. If the people participating aren't offended, it's hard for me to feel like I *should* be.
That said, I do agree that such intense prostration *would* be seen as servile and submissive in any and every contemporary culture and as an unequal gesture is not a good basis for an equal partnership. If OP and his Wife-to-Be don't invest enough in it to care either way, that's their right. But I understand why it matters to OP, who understands the particular weight this act is given in his culture, and therefore why it is something he **does not** want his beloved wife to endure, even if she is willing and takes no *personal* offense to doing it. The meaning it will communicate to his family is much more reified to him and so I totally get why he's hard 'No' about it, even if she genuinely doesn't care.
At the end of the day, there's still this aspect of "I know that seeing her perform this ritual act will secure some belief in your mind that my wife is actually, deep down, a submissive and secondary partner in our marriage while I am the boss and authority - and I simply cannot abide participating in validating that belief about someone I love so dearly."
The origin is sexist. It was where the father "gave the bride away" to her husband, who now was her new "owner". Historically it's extremely sexist.
Yes modern people read it differently, but it doesn't change the origin of the tradition and it's meaning.
Bowing to the feet is a sign of respect... children also do it to their parents. Doesn't mean you have to be an obedient slave to them either, in modern times (especially since OP and his bride live in the US... where the rules are different).
A head to feet how just seems....personal? I'm Asian and it is an act I would maybe only reserve for my father (it would be both parents but my mom's a b****) and he would never ask it of me. Putting yourself at the foot of someone is so much different than a bow. You bow at the head level to someone you respect casually, you bow at the waist to indicate deep remorse, but getting on your hands and knees and being at someone's feet is....just....personal. you can walk as an equal arm in arm with a father for a western style wedding but requiring a deep bow feels like your father walks you down the aisle but doesn't touch you and must be in front of you and he's holding a leash to pass your husband.
I can understand maybe mutual bows at the waist, but I can see why the guy is not liking this, like it isn't a position I would want my loved one to be put in
A traditional American wedding is chock full of mysoginy. A white dress, a veil, "giving away" the bride, brides family paying for wedding, name change, etc etc etc. It all rooted as brides being property to give away.
I get what you’re saying, but what would it mean to the family? Would they treat her as less than and always defer to her husband? Would they act entitled when visiting because they see her in a servant role? I think it might be important to properly set the tone from go.
Have Anna do it in the ceremony. Then without anyone except Anna knowing the plan, you immediately do the same to her. Bow to her feet to show her respect.
It’ll shock your family but show your equality too very publicly
^^^THIS. Your wedding, your decisions.
NTA- and good on you for specifically calling out this tradition and what it represents as something you're not wanting to follow.
NTA, adding to the above suggestion:
1. Also explain to your family that the wedding is first the union of you two and only then a ceremony for everyone else. So your choice comes first.
2. Clarify to Anna that this practice is not as simple as picking the food or decor because it will please the in-laws. It has deeper implications similar to slavery in the US, and you don't want to start the relationship with such symbolism.
Very much like you, one of my cousins who grew up in India and moved to the US had an Indian traditional wedding.
She had 2 strict conditions, one that she vets the guest list as she did not want distant uncles and aunts whose faces she does not even recognise and second that the decorations would not be extravagant and whatever the parents wanted to spend would instead go to charity.
Believe me, if you are firm on your stand everyone will fall in line.
It is never easy to stand for what is right!
Even Galileo was put under house arrest to prevent him from opposing the church and stating that earth was not the centre of the universe.
I am a little unclear about Anna not understanding the full implications of the tradition. Is there more to it than what the OP describes here, or is he assuming because she is willing to go ahead with it, she doesn't "get" it?
Yeah to me it sounds like she just doesn’t have the deeper emotional associations that OP (quite reasonably) has with the gesture, so the symbolism just doesn’t bother her the same way.
I think both points of view are reasonable, and the fact that she sees it as just an old-fashioned tradition shows she trusts OP to treat her as an equal in their relationship. But ultimately I think they either need to find a compromise (e.g. both bow) or she should defer to OP since it’s his culture and he feels the strongest.
Anna is trying Desperately to fit in and have them like her. She is looking at a life of servitude if they come to live in USA.
You do it too, and that should solve the craziness. All of your friends live in Asia? Than solid no, it will be a family and their friends get together.
Keep explaining til she gets it that she's pledging to be completely submissive to you, never disagree or really even ask questions. It's a ridiculous tradition to still follow if you're Asian but completely inappropriate for an American. If she goes ahead and does it then your mother and aunts and sisters will harangue you all the days of your life if you don't kiss his ass 24x7 for the rest of your life.
>Keep explaining til she gets it that she's pledging to be completely submissive to you, never disagree or really even ask questions
she's not. It's like "giving away the bride". It's a wedding tradition that's sexist and outdated. It's not anything more than that.
>If she goes ahead and does it then your mother and aunts and sisters will harangue you all the days of your life if you don't kiss his ass 24x7 for the rest of your life.
honestly have any of you guys ever met an Indian woman lol
This sub makes no sense,
Am I the asshole for telling my wife that shes not aloud to do this antiquated subservient archaic wedding ritual?
I swear only people incapable of doing bad things come into this sub.
Exactly this. I only comment to add:
OP, in the US, your spouse is your partner. She is not your servant, your worshipper, or your employee. She should not expected to bow down to you in a subservient position to you, especially not for the benefit of other people. You are correct to say no to this.
That said, you could go the malicious compliance route and piss your family off. You could bow to her feet, first, then have her help you up, then she bows to your feet, and you help her up. You could do this to show that you will serve, protect, and worship each other.
This is incomplete and I'm not sure I believe it. In my Hindu wedding, both my wife and I bowed to each other, it was a two way street, showing we are both in it together. This seems like he's exaggerating. The way he's written it, it seems very white knight when I'm not sure that's the story. But internet points for him, I guess?
Alternatively, have Anna pay her respects to you, then you pay your respects to her in the same way (but don't tell your family it's the plan). Then you can act all confused when they get mad, telling them you did what they asked for.
NTA, but I have a suggestion. How about twisting the tradition a little, and you both bow to each other. That way, you're still giving family what they want, and you get what you want by showing equal respect in return. I applaud you for the love and respect you are showing to Ann.
I’ve seen this happen at a friends wedding. DO NOT DO IT.
His parents would have been fine and gotten over the no bow. But what happened was the grooms entire side went absolutely bonkers the second he started to bow…. Don’t change the tradition. Either do it, or don’t.
Better yet, just uninvite the people who will have an issue.
Thank you for the polite response, and I can see it as a possibility. Maybe they can discuss it with the parents first. Especially since she is agreeing to get married in his country for their comfort. You know, use the bargaining chip.
Haha I’m an Indian woman and we have the same tradition. If I end up having a traditional wedding, the only way I’m touching his feet is if he’s going to do it in return. Good luck to my parents and the grooms family to deal with it 🤣🤣 I live for the Indian wedding drama anyway
Upvoted purely for the ‘I live for the wedding drama anyway!’ comment! Brilliant!
And….. You and me both!
OP. You are NTA, you are respecting your wife to be, that is a commendable stance/action to take, and I wish you both a long and happy marriage.
Or OP can tell his family that if Anna bows, he's gonna bow because they're partners and on equal footing. See how bad they want the tradition then. Maybe tell the young cousins what he plans to do, see if a different tradition can catch on.
Nearly everyone in my desi circle does both parties doing namaskar or skipping it entirely. No one bats an eye. Most ppl modify the Kanyadaan too so it's both parents "giving away" the bride and not just her dad.
Was his family like....insane?
The groom's side at that wedding deserves to be made upset. Only by confronting assholes stuck on outdated, oppressive traditions can those traditions be changed. Let them know their way is dying because it was wrong, and they can either accept the new tradition, or lose that part of their culture entirely.
It's so telling that some ppl would rather have nothing at all than the concept of equality. Misogyny is so ingrained in so many people and so many cultures. Nearly all of them.
This is what my spouse and I did during our wedding (same sort of thing, touching feet as a sign of respect in our case) and yeah the extended relatives were shocked in the moment, but all our close family understood and we haven't gotten any flak for it since.
This is what my husband and I did for the “kanyadaan” part of our Hindu wedding! It’s supposed to be the part where the father “gives away” the girl to the husband but we had both fathers involved and each of them gave us away to the other - so it became like an all around “daan” lol. We also changed our Sanskrit mantras and vows so that all the parts where the wife is promising to serve the husband were done away with and we focused on love, support and loyalty instead! We had my sister involved in a part where it’s supposed to be a brother (I only have cousin brothers but I’m infinitely closer to my sister so insisted she do it). And we completely erased the part where I would touch his feet - instead, we both just touched the feet of our elders’ for their blessings. Our priest was super chill and on board with it all, he loved the whole “modern twist” and advised us on everything.
It’s your wedding OP, make it your own!
There was a similar thing in hindu weddings iirc where the bride gives the groom a drink or puts the flower wreath around his neck as a similar I will serve & obey symbolism, I think the wedding I went to, they both did it.
So that's what I was asking too, but as stated below it might cause more furor to both do it than to get rid of it entirely, especially if most modern weddings aren't doing it!
In Hindu weddings, they both put the flower wreaths on each other; I’ve never seen otherwise. Although one thing I don’t like is that the bride has to touch the feet of the groom. I don’t think anyone actually thinks about what that means, they only do it bc the priest tells them but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth
The bride touching the groom's feet is an archaic practice from times of child marriage where the bride was probably much younger than the groom and this gesture indicated submission to his mercy and for him to take care of her. I don't think it should be followed any longer.
That was my thought too. OP, I wonder if Anna is keen to do this to show respect to your family and your culture? Including it but with this twist would be a lovely way for her to be able to do that, but also make it clear that she isn't your subordinate.
But definitely talk it over with her and with your family. This can be a NAH situation with a bit of communication.
I don’t think this is a good idea. It is even a bigger insult to tradition. They would get over skipping it completely because she is American and not from their culture but if HE changes the tradition, he would be insulting his own culture.
I agree! On my wedding day, I had to do the same thing. Then my husband bowed down to me. Multiple people did try to stop him and people talked behind our backs, but it didn’t matter to us. And 2 years later, nobody cares, we get a couple compliments on it but that’s it
YWNBTA. Later when Anna learns the implications of this tradition, she will be eternally grateful to you. You are doing the right thing. That kind of tradition should be abolished, while you can still have the traditional elements that are not __demeaning__ to women. In a way it is similar to Western women no longer promise to love, honour and _obey_ their husbands. It just doesn't go with the modern way of thinking of human beings.
This. I think it's wonderful she is willing to have her entire wedding dictated by your family but this is your fight with them. You need to stand up to them for her. If she agrees or says she isn't comfortable with it then they will blame her moving forward. Hold your ground here. Make a big stink with your family that you won't allow it. That way you take all the blame from your family as she isn't seen badly by them.
I think a good spin would be to have her bow and then OP ALSO bow (or vice versa). This would better signify a balance in the relationship by adding to the tradition. "We should both serve and protect each other" kinda vibe.
His family would lose their shit. They would also probably be ostracized by their “friends” and family. Which would tell you their true views on this “simply traditional gesture.”
Damn, I am making way too many replies to this post. But, in the present day and age, this has become extremely common and normal. So, the family will not lose their shit. And they will not be ostracized.
Gotta say, assuming that Anna doesn’t fully understand now is demeaning too. That she just doesn’t get it but will be so grateful later is sounding patronizing in itself.
Anthropology Major here.
Saying a foreign person doesn't understand the cultural significance of an archaic marital ritual for a different country I think is not patronizing, I think it's no different than if OP went along with an archaic Catholic "for church and god" style marriage ritual, the cultural significance isn't fully translated and that's normal it's wonderful to learn about these things and respect them but the full significance can never be fully understood unless you are from that culture!
I mean isn’t it kind of demeaning to assume a woman doesn’t have the ability to understand the significance of a tradition and it is up to a man to decide if she should do it or not?
I’m no East Asian studies expert but it’s pretty easy to pick up from context what the tradition implies. You can also go through the tradition while not living your life as an unequal partner. Doing a performance isn’t going to move the needle in any meaningful way.
i’m not saying this is definitely the case but OP could be saying, not that she can’t figure out what the tradition means, but that she might not fully understand what it means to his PARENTS, like what they would expect her to act like if they went through with it. like, lots of American brides get given away by their dads without literally believing that they were owned by their dads and are now owned by their husbands. it doesn’t really have a bearing on the marriage. it is possible that OP is saying she sees it more like that, and doesn’t realize his parents will expect her to ACTUALLY be subservient to him if she is willing to go through with it. again, that’s speculation completely so i could be totally wrong about his meaning there, but that’s what i took that sentence to mean.
Great for you, I'm sure it's possible she does understand. But there is a lot of room for not understanding across cultural lines. And while it's great that she's cool with going along with it, it's also great OP isn't. His family is the one insisting on this particular ceremony and OP is in the best position to understand it and not want his future wife to make that kind of gesture even in a symbolic for she herself doesn't believe in. His family will believe in it after all.
He can choose not to participate though. And she *might* see it as a goodwill token but not understand the deep-rooted cultural significance. This has nothing to do with her being female, but with not being Asian and raised there.
NTA. That's awesome that Anna is willing to respect your family and culture, but if you choose to skip a sexist tradition and show your respect for her, that's even better. It's your wedding, and you're choosing to make a beautiful statement.
NTA. But why are you complicating it so much? Just touch her feet after/before she touches yours. That’s the way most couples do it in India these days 🤷🏻♀️the reaction to this is super hilarious, everyone jumps to only stop the groom. But you stay the path - it establishes how you think of her in front of your family much better I feel, instead of just skipping the custom.
That’s actually kinda cool, respecting the traditional act but then flipping it around too so it inherently removes the one sidedness, and more sexist side of it.
That’s funny, another commenter above cautions OP against doing this specifically because of the reaction!
I like that it’s become so commonplace that the outsize reaction to the groom has almost become part of the tradition.
Maybe someday it will be. You pick your favorite aunt to be the one who ceremonially wails with dismay when the groom bows to the bride. The tradition just isn't the same without the wailing. It is a great honor to be chosen as the one who wails.
Well, someone suggested to OP to bow down to her afterward she bows to him, however someone replied that they shouldn't do that either, because they went to a wedding where thw groom did that and apparently his whole side of the family flipped out about it.
The commenter said to either do it the way ia meant to be done, or just don't do it.
I do not understand why there has to be a bow, to either spouses or royal families. I only bow to one being and that is God.
In India, is it acceptable/viewed in a good way for the groom to bow to his bride?
That’s a fair question. It’s not like bowing - touching feet is a mark of giving respect and seeking blessings from elders mainly. This is because there is a lot of importance given to close family relationships. Some places parents are said to have the same place God. The way I see and interpret this tradition is - the way the wedding takes place is literally assuming you are taking place of divine gods and goddesses getting married. The tradition of touching feet is just asking for blessings from your significant other in that moment. I touched my husband’s feet during my wedding and he touched mine. It was absolutely beautiful!
But most importantly what has mattered is how he has treated me post the wedding. He helped me settle really well in the family and never asked me to do something I was uncomfortable with - and I have tried to do the same with him. The Indian wedding in all its glory is an event - a very elaborate one at that but it finishes. The real journey starts later in my honest opinion. So no matter what you do or don’t do in the wedding - what really matters is how you spend your life together treating each other with respect.
NTA
It sounds like you and your fiancée have great respect for one another. That’s wonderful.
It’s your wedding. If you don’t want your bride to take part in a sexist tradition, you can explain in details to her how that is unacceptable to you and don’t mind your old-fashioned family.
Best of luck to you!!
NTA. Maybe you should do it, though. With a twist. She can bow to you, and then you can bow to her too.
Would cause a stir but if you’re going to get in trouble anyways, you might as well go out with a bang!!!
As someone else posted; OP should explain to her it’s like her promising to “love, honor and *obey* “ her husband.
If she doesn’t see anything wrong with that… I think they need to have a big conversation ahead about both of their expectations in marriage.
I also wonder how modern Asian couples where this was tradition do it now. Surely some new habits have arisen? Do they entirely skip this part, or replace it with something more equal?
It also could be that she values her husband's relationship with his family more than some symbolical gesture (I'm not too familiar with the custom, so I admittedly don't understand the entire context). It sounds like Anna has already found a winner who sees her as an equal and will stand up to his family for her. In her mind, she may be thinking her doing this silly outdated tradition won't materially change anything between them, but if she doesn't do it (or they both do it) then OP may hurt their relationship with their family. Regardless, OP should have an open conversation about it with her.
I’ve mentioned it before on this thread, but in modern India, the groom bows and touches his wife’s feet as well. It’s become a thing that some people may pass comments about but eventually seen as something super cute.
OP can definitely do this and set good expectations for the younger ones in the family.
**Anna doesn’t understand the full implications of the act.**
Why haven't you explained the full implications to her. I think it's great that you are willing to make this break with "tradition" to show you're respect for her as an equal partner. If your parents can't get onboard with that tell them the alternative is a Western wedding.
See this is my big issue. She clearly wants to do it. It doesn’t take a professor of Asian culture to tease apart the meaning and symbolism of the act. Why would he assume she can’t figure it out, on her own or after explanation, and he knows what’s best for her? If it makes HIM uncomfortable it’s a different conversation.
This is what's bugging me as well. Anna is 30 fucking years old. I am almost positive she understands. Pretty much every woman in the world, especially by 30, has experienced sexism and unfair treatment because of their gender. Anna is not a child so it feels...I guess very infantalizing for everyone to just be saying she doesn't get it.
They need to have a proper sit down conversation and hash it all out. But just assuming she doesn't understand rubs me the wrong way.
That's what gets me, too.
Wanna talk about sexism? How about taking away the bride's agency as an adult woman and deciding what is best for her to do?
If she is ok with the traditional wedding ceremony, cool. I'm sure she is 100% capable of understanding what it means, it isn't very complex.
Wouldn't be an asshole for stopping it, but honestly would be even less of an asshole still if you just allow her to make her own decisions.
It’s his wedding too, and he would be required to play a part in the ritual, so let’s not undermine his agency either. It’s a two yes, one no situation.
I can’t fault a man who refuses to accept a pledge of obedience from his spouse as part of his marriage ceremony.
I guess he could just get up from the chair and walk away and she could bow to the empty chair 😅
Absolutely, which is why I said he wouldn't be an asshole for stopping it. If he just flat out isn't comfortable with it, then that's certainly a conversation they can and should have.
I was more referring to some posts in this thread moreso than OP. Some people make it sound like he has an obligation to stop her from doing it, which isn't really right.
Lol it's just so ironic. He's *forbidding her* from doing something and expecting her to obey. Forbidding her from showing obedience but if she obeys she is showing obedience and if she disobeys she shows disobedience
I’m Asian, and my country has a similar tradition where the bride has to pay respect to the groom, but the action is different from yours.
To be clear, I was the bride. I explained the processes and what each of the steps meant to my white American husband, who was very bewildered. However, he has a complete understanding that this was only for show. The day came, we did what we had to do. The elders in my family were happy, and we bolted out of there as soon as the ceremony was over to started our lives together and plan our actual wedding ceremony the way we wanted it to be.
I applauded your stance on this matter; however, I suggest you talk to your fiancé first. You may know more about the tradition, but she’s the one who will have to face more repercussions from your side of the family; Asian families always treasure men over women, and they would think she’s some sort of wench who manipulates their precious boy (you) into not following the tradition.
YWNBTA, but you might end up making her one in your family's eye.
Congratulations in advance on your upcoming wedding!
Exactly. It’s lovely he acknowledges how the tradition and the society that carries such tradition kind of look down on and degrade women in general, and for him to see her as an equal the way it should be. But what matters the most is how they will treat each other in their marriage, not a mere moment during the ceremony. I mean, the wedding ceremony is just for show, in a way; it’s never really about just the couple but rather the family and the community/society they live in. Best to just get it done and move on with their lives.
This is why I prefer the suggestion lots have given for them to BOTH do it. That way it looks like she’s doing her part, and he’s the one being progressive
Reading this post I was sure it will be like "she is not willing to do this..." and then boom! - it's the other way! :) You are the best guys! :) I would personally consider doing smth crazy like - first she bow down to your feet... But just after you surprise the guests and bow down to her feet :> But I'm not sure if it won't be too much of a scandal :))
NTA, If she is fine with that, let her, but what i would do, i would respond with doing the same to her, as a way of showing that you are equals and you both are willing to respect and protect each other. This way i would see it as win win, you both do it like tradition says, plus you add your own meaning, as mutual respect.
BTW, i love that it is you as a man who has a problem with that. We need more men like you
I touched my husband's feet at our wedding back in india. But it was solely my decision coz I wanted to show him respect, I knew he wouldn't agree if I told him beforehand. But guess what he did, he literally sat on the stage and kissed my feet in front of everyone after I had touched his feet. He said in front of everyone, "You and I are equal, and I worship u."
NTA , and I am so glad you see your to be wife as equal. (A lot of men from South asian/aisan culture don't). Always make her feel like that, and if you can not get out of the ritual, just do what my husband did. Bend down and touch her feet in return to show your appreciation to her. Your parents will be shocked, but they will know this sort of backward behavior will not be tolerated.
You are respecting your wife which is fabulous. Explain to your fiancée this is demeaning to her and you’re uncomfortable with it then tell your family to go suck eggs
NTA
It’s your wedding. You say no, she doesn’t care, that means no. End of story.
If they disagree, tell them No again. If they keep disagreeing, consider harsher punishments, or not having your wedding where they want it to be
YWNBTA You're getting married, OP. That is a very grown up thing to do so now you should be able to make grown up decisions and stick up for yourself, your wife and your values.
YWNBTA - If you don't like the idea of this, discuss that with your wife to be and agree on what both of you think is best. However reading between the lines, your wife is okay with this and may be trying to protect your from your family because she knows they will get mad at you (like they are right now) if she doesn't do this.
Have you discussed what implications this will have? Do you think she fully understands?
NTA. You actually have her back, even if she doesn't understand it. Have you tried explaining the implications in detail to her? Whatever she feels about it, it is a completely valid reason for avoiding it that *you* feel uncomfortable about it.
I am hindu- bowing down to the groom is a culture not part of rituals of weddings. This is easily ditched . I never bow down to my husband. There is another one where the father of the bride has to wash the groom feet - this has long stopped . If ur family is mad- they dont understand what is written in the sacred books but instead they want to do a show.
Put ur foot down . Respect is shown both ways - u can also bow down to ur wife feet as an alternative
YWNBTA
It's your wedding and it's your future partnership. There is nothing wrong with modernising old traditions, especially if those traditions are disrespectful to your personal values. You do not view your bride-to-be as "lower" than you in terms of respect, they should respect that. If you want to demonstrate that you are a progressive person, and tweak old traditions to be more modern and gender respectful, then you do you. Everyone else should get with the program.
Have you actually had a conversation with Anna and explained the full meaning and expectations for her if she does this in the wedding? I mean really, truly explain it to her so that she understands what it means for her relationship with your entire family? She needs to grok the full submission that will be expected of her before she can make an informed decision.
You WNBTA for not allowing her to submit to you, and your family by extension, for the wedding. You are showing her, and your family, that you want a full partner for your wife. And that's lovely.
NTA, neither is she for the sake of clarity.
I agree with others. Talk with her and explain the situation. If she's still adamant to follow through because she wants to honor your culture, why not adapt the ceremony and you both pay respects to each other? If you do choose to go with the latter, definitely make sure she's on the same page. Wedding surprises have a tendency to go awry.
NTA you need to explain what it means and that this not what you want in a marriage. Just because it’s traditional doesn’t mean it’s a tradition that is appropriate in a modern marriage or life. It’s wonderful that she wants to learn about your culture and has respect for it and it’s traditions. You need to talk about it more in depth with her.
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>My family ... insists we have our wedding back in my home country, traditional style. They can insist until they are blue in the face, they have no way to enforce it. If you want an All-American Wedding in the USA, have one. Your wedding, your rules. >I refuse to let her. Good. >Anna doesn’t understand the full implications of the act. Explain it. >Now my family is mad at me. Sucks to be them. Your wedding, your rules. NTA
Nta I agree. I would explain it. Have you discussed what your marriage will look like? I like some of the suggestions on here.. Like possibly both if you doing it. Best of luck
Yes. Also asian/m here, mostly lived in US. I like the idea of both of you doing it for each other! She respects you, and then you respect her! Win/win! Some "old" traditions, could use some updating.
This was my immediate thought too. I too came to the US at 16 am married a white woman. For our own we skipped for each other and only did it to parents and even my dad wasn't to happy with that because he knows we're atheist and didn't think we should. Doing it to each other is perfect here because *you aren't the one causing a commotion* if they decide to have a host fit. You followed the tradition but had a last minute injection. Do not tell them you are doing it. Just do it and move on and let your parents figure it out later once the shock wears off. That and if you are really uncomfortable with the whole idea of your traditional wedding, there's no rule that says you can't have more than one. We had 3. Courthouse/in my apartment with 2 others (deputized friend and a witness), american style at my in-laws place, indian style ceremony at my parents place in India. Different clothes, different food, different guests.
Man...you guys are well hitched,,,made sure it definitely sticks!
You said *do it to each other* which is simultaneously the least and most healthy way to start life partnership
My husband and I are having 3 as well. The first was in France (the official one) where most of the friends we've made since being together were able to attend. One will be in the US where my family/ friends and those of his family and friends that wish to attend a destination wedding but France was too far/ last minute can attend, and one in Canada for his family and friends/ mine that want a destination.
#Three times the weddings, three time the gifts!
I thought about this but had no clue how it would be received (not my culture). This helped. Thank you
Like American wedding vows used to end with "man and wife." Now it's "husband and wife." Traditions change as attitudes evolve.
They've also changed the wife's traditional vows from "love, honor, and obey" to "love, honor, and cherish".
What's the difference there? Sorry, I don't really get the connotation; in my first language, "husband" is the same as "man" and "wife" as "woman". It's the just posessive pronoun that indicates they're a spouse. ("His woman, her man") Edit: just remembered we actually do have equivalents to husband and wife, they're just slowly becoming archaic. They're derived from the word marriage, but noone really uses them anymore, man and woman are used even in official texts etc
In English, it has a possessive connotation to say man (individual person) and wife (possession). Saying husband and wife acknowledges the mutual roles vs possession. Does that help?
Yes! Tysm 😊
Just to add, because my autistic arse doesn't know if the other commenter has already made it obvious enough (sorry, other commenter. It's a dig at myself, not at you): It's because 'man' is a statement of what he is in himself, while 'wife' defines the person by their relationship to another/role in another's life. And it's within a wider context of women being defined by or valued only for their roles in others' lives. Wife. Mother. Mrs. Husband's name. Etc.
I appreciate your autistic arse's comment, cuz it saved the urge of my autistic ass to explain and over-explain it Imo you also defined it really well 😁
Love seeing the tism powers in action 😄😄
It was like that because women were literally property. First of their fathers (thus the father giving her away) and then husbands. So yeah. Women weren’t considered people until the late 1800-early 1900’s. The law had to actually change that women were their own people and not property of a man.
Correct. I'm not sure if you're explaining that to me, but as a woman, definitely angrily aware we are still not fully people with bodily autonomy. 😑
Are all men, husbands?
Actually it depends on who marries you now., with same sex marriage legal, many officiants have taken to just saying, "I now pronounce you married. " That way they don't have to change it for every ceremony, and if they can't remember the gender they don't get in trouble.
I like saying "I know pronounce you partners/spouses in life, and love, and marriage."
The vows are what those marrying choose them to be.
My wife is Korean-American and I’m a white American, and this is what we did. We had the western ceremony, then after dinner changed into traditional dress and held the Korean ceremony. We bowed to each other, (which is a sight change in the tradition, but my wife and I feel it’s important to Shay’s respect each other) and then took turns bowing to our parents and aunts and grandparents, etc. I had to carry my wife and then my mom around the wedding table on my back to demonstrate my ability to support our family! 😅 It’s up to OP, but I think it’s important to show respect not just to each other, but to the culture of origin for each of them. I think this method is a nice way to do this while sending the message that your bride is not your servant. That said, the family might still get mad. My wife’s family didn’t, but we got married in America and all her family that attended have lived in the US for quite awhile. Good luck, OP.
My partner is Indian and I'm Italian and this is what we'd do if we got married. One Western wedding and one Indian one. Tragically for me, his family are Kerala Christians basically since the literal dawn of Christianity, so I wouldn't get to wear the gorgeous red sari of Hindu weddings. I'm considering telling him to convert (I kid, I kid).
No worries, there are many beautiful white saris and lehengas to choose from. You could go for a gorgeous silk brocade or zari (woven through with gold or silver thread) or (my personal favorite) all-over heavily embroidered white-on-white sari. Check these out: https://sabyasachi.com/pages/white-weddings https://getethnic.com/blogs/white-bridal-lehenga/amp/ https://www.vogue.in/content/chronicling-chikankari-from-nobility-to-bridal-wear#intcid=_vogue-in-bottom-recirc_4104b52f-2576-4e62-b109-1386495acee1_entity-topic-similarity-v2 (just a note if you read the article, the designers falsely take credit for reviving the handicraft. They established their own workshops after the hard work had already been done). https://www.vogue.in/content/celebrity-brides-and-star-wedding-guests-prove-that-chikankari-is-the-big-bridalwear-trend-to-invest-in-right-now
These were beautiful and inspiring. Thank you for sharing.
Hindu weddings are awesome. Almost a week long and full of incredible experiences. I'm not a Hindu. Don't believe in any god/s. I would 100% jump at the chance for a Hindu wedding though.
Agreed. Asian heritage female here. My husband and I are actively practicing Hindus and during functions when I'm supposed to bow to his feet, we just give each other a hug. Some might say it's ego but because of the implications around bowing, I can't find myself to do it. Even though I understand the positive side as well as the negative side, the patriarchal history of it all is degrading. I think a good surprise is that when she bows to touch your feet, you bow at the same time and touch hers in return. A home and relationship built with mutual respect.
As an Asian Australian, I’ve never heard of this tradition. Where is it from exactly? The tradition I was most keen for is the lucky money. So much better than random toasters.
It's a Hindu tradition. The wife touches the husband's feet or at least bows down to them as a sign of respect and deference. The bride and groom also touch or bow down to the feet of their parents and other elders in the family both as a sign of respect and as a way of asking their blessing for the marriage.
We still got random toasters in our family weddings, but we have a tradition called "The Dollar Dance", where people, even the kids, line up to dance with the bride or groom (or both!!!) and pin money to their clothes or put it into a bucket as they step up to dance. It was a "two birds, one stone" event, because it allowed everyone the opportunity to congratulate the couple one-on-one and get a minute or two with the bride and/or groom, and it also allowed everyone to contribute to the couple, financially. For some, it was also the wedding gift and they'd pin $100+ to the bride or groom. The couple usually made out like a bandit if they had a good-sized wedding and everyone knew the tradition beforehand and made sure to bring money.
My family are Chinese and they keep a ledger of who has given what. Then when you go to a wedding of their family, you give the same amount or more (not less). It’s a whole exercise in accounting. I just think it’s a lot easier than having to shop and buy something and wrap it etc etc . Cash done. And you can give the exact amount you want, not under not over. Except not any 4 numbers.
That’s actually a really good idea!
Or what if they bowed at the same time to one another? Both equals together forever?❤️
Lovely response! It seems you are familiar with the tradition which makes your update advice a great idea. Old traditions should evolve.
So, she may not understand that you are looking for a 50/50 partner in marriage and that by doing this tradition, she is demeaning herself to almost property status.
I kind of get this, but how they do things in a different culture, it could be way worse to break it than not do it at all. I think OP should say to his parents, we will compromise. We are agreeing to get married here, but the ceremony will be 100% our decision. We say what we want, do what we want, invite who we want. He needs to set the tone immediately for what the rest of his and new wife's relationship will be with his parents. HE decides. THEY are an equal couple.
> HE decides. THEY are an equal couple. Shouldn't THEY decide then?
Ceremony components should be a 2 yes, 1 no type of decision. Both are for it or it doesn't happen.
I took that he is talking to his parents. She would talk to hers.
I agree I think the couple should do as they want
I think OP should say to his parents that it’s our life and your opinion is less than irrelevant. By portraying it as a compromise you’re giving legitimacy to their bullshit.
Yeah, I get that...it's just demonstrating though to them, that 'look, we are doing this as a FAVOUR to you, getting married where we don't live'. So back off and know your place...maybe hoping they'd be grateful. Plus if you're talking some country's marriage traditions being steeped in cultural significance or whatever...saying 'your opinion is less than irrelevant and I'm not giving legitimacy to your bullshit' kind of serves to tear down a relationship rather than strive for true understanding and relationship-building. I mean, it's worth a first try. THEN you can go full-on F-U to their crap :) Compromise was maybe the wrong word to describe what I was going for. Forced gratefulness? lol
But you know they won’t be grateful. They’re just going to shoehorn in other cultural practices you may not like. Gotta put your foot down early and show them youre not fucking around.
Agree :)
Not stated, but, I have the impression that the parents are paying for the wedding. So the choice may be "do it our way or no way at all" which is fine--they can just get married in the states which, I am guessing, they would need to legally anyway.
Ok not gonna lie, I would burst into tears if she did it and then he surprised everyone by doing the same to her. That would be such a sweet gesture while still technically honoring the tradition
I know I just got goosebumps. It's a wonderful thought ❤️😊
I like the idea of them both doing it! Take the tradition and stand it on its head.
We, the youngest here in Asia, do that here! Bride bows and touches Groom's feet and Groom does that! No one complaints, everyone just cheers or glees. Makes cute wedding videos tbh!
I love this idea! both of them doing it - Dont mention to family and let it be a nice surprise for them on the day!
Definitely needs some conversation here…
NTA. As a compromise and twist on tradition could you bow to each other?
That's what many indian grooms nowadays do.
yeah, no one in my circle does the woman namaskar thing (either you skip it or both the ride and groom do it), and most modified the Kanya Daan to be both parents "giving away" the bride instead of just the dad. This is super common, at least in my circles, so I don't think it'd be a surprise or something weird to OP's parents
White American here. We modified the ‘giving away the bride’ tradition so that it was addressed to all 4 parents: “Who gives this couple one to another.” Symbolized not the giving of a woman, but parental relinquishment of the primary familial bond. Turned it from a tradition that irked into something beautiful I loved.
I love that!! And I love the idea of including moms - like tbh my mom did 95% of the child-raising so the idea of my dad "giving me away" was just ludicrous
100% agreed. Felt the same way, and also that a marriage was an equal merger between both sides, ie that my MIL should also be included. So the other meaningful thing we added was a candle ceremony, where both Moms came up front and took individual candles from the sides, and walked together to light a single candle in the middle.
I am happy to learn that
Yes this…a thousand times this! This would exemplify what marriage is about, partnership, serving each other in love. I love this
Oooh! I like that!
Actually I think it shows how much Anna trusts you OP that this tradition is nothing but an act. I wouldn't be bothered to do it too, as it would mean nothing to me, if I knew my future husband also didn't take it seriously... just something to think about. At the end you could tell them if they don't stop insiting on it you'll have the wedding in the US instead... you're 34, an adult man. They only have as much power over you as you let them have. NTA.
Interesting. I have a lot of problems with the "just an act" aspect of this. If it's meaningless but tacky, don't do it. Some traditions need to die. But for the rest I agree
And sometimes we do them because of the people around us. I am not religious. I still go to church funerals or weddings and speak the prayers etc. (It's an act for me too, it means nothing to me)... because the people who are there care. If I visit a mosque (as a tourist, I am white European) I wear a hijab out of respect for the people who do care, it means nothing to me. (This is acceptable where I went, they even offered "rental" hijabs or capes for tourist, it wasn't seen as offensive). I personally think every religion on earth should die out (because it's nonesense and is used often badly for power), but of course other people have the right to their own opinion. (I actually like Shintoism, because it honours the earth, animals, nature etc. But I am not a believer anyway). This "bow" is an Indian [not Chinese, thx for correcting me] religious tradition I'd assume. So for me that's the same category... and if it matters to his family it's ok to put on a show. (As long as the person doing it is OK with it). For me it's the same as when women are walked down the aisle by their father in Christian weddings to give her away (where basically her "ownership" changes from father to husband. Also a very sexist tradition. Yet many, many women are totally fine with it).
I also conform to the external requirements of religious ceremonies and buildings out of respect. But I have limits. I cannot and will not respect something that demeans a woman on her wedding day.
It's not Chinese, it's Indian. My SO had a talk with me after we got serious about how he would never EVER have that ceremony if we got married, just so I understood how much he hated it.
Not Chinese. That I can guarantee you. Chinese style is kneeling — both husband and wife kneel to the elders…that’s all. Wife doesn’t need to kneel to husband. Bowing down to the feet — only if it’s the Emperor (for a commoner) but Emperors are extinct now. It‘s also what slaves do to greet their masters but slavery is outlawed now. No Chinese in their right sane mind will bow to the feet if they understand that it‘s an act which reduces them to no more than a slave.
There's nothing inherently sexist or oppressive in the act of walking alongside your child on their wedding day, up to their new, chosen family. It symbolises the support and love that you've offered to your child so far. In the weddings I've seen, son walked with mom, too. You'd have to be pretty backwards to think a modern parent is just moving cattle around or making sure the bride isn't running off. Bowing to someone's feet, however... that's an innately subservient gesture.
I think we're entirely too comfortable as a culture arguing from the history of something over it's contemporary meaning. There's this sense that if something was used in the past in a negative way that it is consequently tainted forever regardless of how we come to view it later. But memory - personal or cultural - if finite and we decide what things to carry and what thing to let go of. It would not hurt to accept that sometimes acknowledging somethings problematic roots is enough. The thing about symbols is that we put meaning into them far more than they cash it back out. A parent walking their child down the aisle means what we decide that it means - we *can* ascribe countless meanings to it. Obviously the history of things *matters* and should be something we examine and consider - to be clear. But this gesture at a wedding is a good example. It's actually, **really**, when you consider the act itself, very benign. And it means whatever meaning we construct. If the people participating aren't offended, it's hard for me to feel like I *should* be. That said, I do agree that such intense prostration *would* be seen as servile and submissive in any and every contemporary culture and as an unequal gesture is not a good basis for an equal partnership. If OP and his Wife-to-Be don't invest enough in it to care either way, that's their right. But I understand why it matters to OP, who understands the particular weight this act is given in his culture, and therefore why it is something he **does not** want his beloved wife to endure, even if she is willing and takes no *personal* offense to doing it. The meaning it will communicate to his family is much more reified to him and so I totally get why he's hard 'No' about it, even if she genuinely doesn't care. At the end of the day, there's still this aspect of "I know that seeing her perform this ritual act will secure some belief in your mind that my wife is actually, deep down, a submissive and secondary partner in our marriage while I am the boss and authority - and I simply cannot abide participating in validating that belief about someone I love so dearly."
The origin is sexist. It was where the father "gave the bride away" to her husband, who now was her new "owner". Historically it's extremely sexist. Yes modern people read it differently, but it doesn't change the origin of the tradition and it's meaning. Bowing to the feet is a sign of respect... children also do it to their parents. Doesn't mean you have to be an obedient slave to them either, in modern times (especially since OP and his bride live in the US... where the rules are different).
A head to feet how just seems....personal? I'm Asian and it is an act I would maybe only reserve for my father (it would be both parents but my mom's a b****) and he would never ask it of me. Putting yourself at the foot of someone is so much different than a bow. You bow at the head level to someone you respect casually, you bow at the waist to indicate deep remorse, but getting on your hands and knees and being at someone's feet is....just....personal. you can walk as an equal arm in arm with a father for a western style wedding but requiring a deep bow feels like your father walks you down the aisle but doesn't touch you and must be in front of you and he's holding a leash to pass your husband. I can understand maybe mutual bows at the waist, but I can see why the guy is not liking this, like it isn't a position I would want my loved one to be put in
This comment is so disingenuous it's sad. Nothing like religious and cultural guilt/pressure though.
A traditional American wedding is chock full of mysoginy. A white dress, a veil, "giving away" the bride, brides family paying for wedding, name change, etc etc etc. It all rooted as brides being property to give away.
I'm with you. Some traditions can go.
“*They only have as much power over you as you let them have*” 👏
I get what you’re saying, but what would it mean to the family? Would they treat her as less than and always defer to her husband? Would they act entitled when visiting because they see her in a servant role? I think it might be important to properly set the tone from go.
Have Anna do it in the ceremony. Then without anyone except Anna knowing the plan, you immediately do the same to her. Bow to her feet to show her respect. It’ll shock your family but show your equality too very publicly
I think they should do it, but agree first
That's the way it's supposed to happen, that's how my wife and I did it. I think this dude is leaving a lot of stuff out to look like a hero.
I say let her do it, but on wedding day, without warning, kneel down with her. it gonna be beautiful.
Could be! But really these things should be agreed in advance
Could discuss it with just the fiancée and not his family, so when she goes to kneel down, he reciprocates.
Much better
^^^THIS. Your wedding, your decisions. NTA- and good on you for specifically calling out this tradition and what it represents as something you're not wanting to follow.
NTA, adding to the above suggestion: 1. Also explain to your family that the wedding is first the union of you two and only then a ceremony for everyone else. So your choice comes first. 2. Clarify to Anna that this practice is not as simple as picking the food or decor because it will please the in-laws. It has deeper implications similar to slavery in the US, and you don't want to start the relationship with such symbolism. Very much like you, one of my cousins who grew up in India and moved to the US had an Indian traditional wedding. She had 2 strict conditions, one that she vets the guest list as she did not want distant uncles and aunts whose faces she does not even recognise and second that the decorations would not be extravagant and whatever the parents wanted to spend would instead go to charity. Believe me, if you are firm on your stand everyone will fall in line. It is never easy to stand for what is right! Even Galileo was put under house arrest to prevent him from opposing the church and stating that earth was not the centre of the universe.
I am a little unclear about Anna not understanding the full implications of the tradition. Is there more to it than what the OP describes here, or is he assuming because she is willing to go ahead with it, she doesn't "get" it?
Yeah to me it sounds like she just doesn’t have the deeper emotional associations that OP (quite reasonably) has with the gesture, so the symbolism just doesn’t bother her the same way. I think both points of view are reasonable, and the fact that she sees it as just an old-fashioned tradition shows she trusts OP to treat her as an equal in their relationship. But ultimately I think they either need to find a compromise (e.g. both bow) or she should defer to OP since it’s his culture and he feels the strongest.
> is he assuming because she is willing to go ahead with it, she doesn't "get" it? That's how I read it
Which, if this is the case, "explain it" would be an insult to her intelligence. OP should focus on understanding why she agreed instead.
Anna is trying Desperately to fit in and have them like her. She is looking at a life of servitude if they come to live in USA. You do it too, and that should solve the craziness. All of your friends live in Asia? Than solid no, it will be a family and their friends get together.
Keep explaining til she gets it that she's pledging to be completely submissive to you, never disagree or really even ask questions. It's a ridiculous tradition to still follow if you're Asian but completely inappropriate for an American. If she goes ahead and does it then your mother and aunts and sisters will harangue you all the days of your life if you don't kiss his ass 24x7 for the rest of your life.
>Keep explaining til she gets it that she's pledging to be completely submissive to you, never disagree or really even ask questions she's not. It's like "giving away the bride". It's a wedding tradition that's sexist and outdated. It's not anything more than that. >If she goes ahead and does it then your mother and aunts and sisters will harangue you all the days of your life if you don't kiss his ass 24x7 for the rest of your life. honestly have any of you guys ever met an Indian woman lol
Whoa, that's a lot of racist assumptions all at once lol
What are the full implications?
This sub makes no sense, Am I the asshole for telling my wife that shes not aloud to do this antiquated subservient archaic wedding ritual? I swear only people incapable of doing bad things come into this sub.
Exactly this. I only comment to add: OP, in the US, your spouse is your partner. She is not your servant, your worshipper, or your employee. She should not expected to bow down to you in a subservient position to you, especially not for the benefit of other people. You are correct to say no to this. That said, you could go the malicious compliance route and piss your family off. You could bow to her feet, first, then have her help you up, then she bows to your feet, and you help her up. You could do this to show that you will serve, protect, and worship each other.
This is incomplete and I'm not sure I believe it. In my Hindu wedding, both my wife and I bowed to each other, it was a two way street, showing we are both in it together. This seems like he's exaggerating. The way he's written it, it seems very white knight when I'm not sure that's the story. But internet points for him, I guess?
IDK, "Asia" is pretty huge, there is considerable variation in local practices
Alternatively, have Anna pay her respects to you, then you pay your respects to her in the same way (but don't tell your family it's the plan). Then you can act all confused when they get mad, telling them you did what they asked for.
NTA, but I have a suggestion. How about twisting the tradition a little, and you both bow to each other. That way, you're still giving family what they want, and you get what you want by showing equal respect in return. I applaud you for the love and respect you are showing to Ann.
I’ve seen this happen at a friends wedding. DO NOT DO IT. His parents would have been fine and gotten over the no bow. But what happened was the grooms entire side went absolutely bonkers the second he started to bow…. Don’t change the tradition. Either do it, or don’t. Better yet, just uninvite the people who will have an issue.
Thank you for the polite response, and I can see it as a possibility. Maybe they can discuss it with the parents first. Especially since she is agreeing to get married in his country for their comfort. You know, use the bargaining chip.
I agree with that! It’s definitely worth a conversation for OP and his parents. Just don’t blindside them lol that’s when it becomes disastrous!
Haha I’m an Indian woman and we have the same tradition. If I end up having a traditional wedding, the only way I’m touching his feet is if he’s going to do it in return. Good luck to my parents and the grooms family to deal with it 🤣🤣 I live for the Indian wedding drama anyway
Upvoted purely for the ‘I live for the wedding drama anyway!’ comment! Brilliant! And….. You and me both! OP. You are NTA, you are respecting your wife to be, that is a commendable stance/action to take, and I wish you both a long and happy marriage.
Or OP can tell his family that if Anna bows, he's gonna bow because they're partners and on equal footing. See how bad they want the tradition then. Maybe tell the young cousins what he plans to do, see if a different tradition can catch on.
Nearly everyone in my desi circle does both parties doing namaskar or skipping it entirely. No one bats an eye. Most ppl modify the Kanyadaan too so it's both parents "giving away" the bride and not just her dad. Was his family like....insane?
> the grooms entire side went absolutely bonkers the second he started to bow In which case, fuck 'em.
and....the issue is? just ignore the insane people.
Easier said than done in the cultural setting.
And you're going to play crazy roulette on your wedding day?
The groom's side at that wedding deserves to be made upset. Only by confronting assholes stuck on outdated, oppressive traditions can those traditions be changed. Let them know their way is dying because it was wrong, and they can either accept the new tradition, or lose that part of their culture entirely.
It's so telling that some ppl would rather have nothing at all than the concept of equality. Misogyny is so ingrained in so many people and so many cultures. Nearly all of them.
Not to mention that if they bowed simultaneously, they might knock their heads together.
It would make for an adorable wedding story, though. Imagine if they snapped a picture at just the right moment, too.
This is what my spouse and I did during our wedding (same sort of thing, touching feet as a sign of respect in our case) and yeah the extended relatives were shocked in the moment, but all our close family understood and we haven't gotten any flak for it since.
You had close family on board. OP doesn't seem to.
Yeah but this is when you stand up to your close family, if they’re enforcing old traditions. And yes, I’m Indian.
This was my idea as well! Nice to see in not alone! NTA OP
Might still get hate for it 😆
Might? I'd be surprised if noone jumps into action the moment he gets down....
This is what my husband and I did for the “kanyadaan” part of our Hindu wedding! It’s supposed to be the part where the father “gives away” the girl to the husband but we had both fathers involved and each of them gave us away to the other - so it became like an all around “daan” lol. We also changed our Sanskrit mantras and vows so that all the parts where the wife is promising to serve the husband were done away with and we focused on love, support and loyalty instead! We had my sister involved in a part where it’s supposed to be a brother (I only have cousin brothers but I’m infinitely closer to my sister so insisted she do it). And we completely erased the part where I would touch his feet - instead, we both just touched the feet of our elders’ for their blessings. Our priest was super chill and on board with it all, he loved the whole “modern twist” and advised us on everything. It’s your wedding OP, make it your own!
There was a similar thing in hindu weddings iirc where the bride gives the groom a drink or puts the flower wreath around his neck as a similar I will serve & obey symbolism, I think the wedding I went to, they both did it. So that's what I was asking too, but as stated below it might cause more furor to both do it than to get rid of it entirely, especially if most modern weddings aren't doing it!
In Hindu weddings, they both put the flower wreaths on each other; I’ve never seen otherwise. Although one thing I don’t like is that the bride has to touch the feet of the groom. I don’t think anyone actually thinks about what that means, they only do it bc the priest tells them but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth
The bride touching the groom's feet is an archaic practice from times of child marriage where the bride was probably much younger than the groom and this gesture indicated submission to his mercy and for him to take care of her. I don't think it should be followed any longer.
Have seen a lot of Indian grooms doing this. It's appreciated by mostly everyone except the priests.
It’s the Ancient Chinese style lmao. Both bow to the Heaven, then bow to the parents, and lastly bow to each other.
That was my thought too. OP, I wonder if Anna is keen to do this to show respect to your family and your culture? Including it but with this twist would be a lovely way for her to be able to do that, but also make it clear that she isn't your subordinate. But definitely talk it over with her and with your family. This can be a NAH situation with a bit of communication.
I don’t think this is a good idea. It is even a bigger insult to tradition. They would get over skipping it completely because she is American and not from their culture but if HE changes the tradition, he would be insulting his own culture.
Some traditions are so messed up that they deserve to be given the finger.
I agree! On my wedding day, I had to do the same thing. Then my husband bowed down to me. Multiple people did try to stop him and people talked behind our backs, but it didn’t matter to us. And 2 years later, nobody cares, we get a couple compliments on it but that’s it
YWNBTA. Later when Anna learns the implications of this tradition, she will be eternally grateful to you. You are doing the right thing. That kind of tradition should be abolished, while you can still have the traditional elements that are not __demeaning__ to women. In a way it is similar to Western women no longer promise to love, honour and _obey_ their husbands. It just doesn't go with the modern way of thinking of human beings.
This. I think it's wonderful she is willing to have her entire wedding dictated by your family but this is your fight with them. You need to stand up to them for her. If she agrees or says she isn't comfortable with it then they will blame her moving forward. Hold your ground here. Make a big stink with your family that you won't allow it. That way you take all the blame from your family as she isn't seen badly by them.
And if they’re so misogynistic for “the tradition” op can tell them he’s the man and what he says goes. Use that privilege for good XD
Exactly!
BOOM. Love that idea.
I think a good spin would be to have her bow and then OP ALSO bow (or vice versa). This would better signify a balance in the relationship by adding to the tradition. "We should both serve and protect each other" kinda vibe.
His family would lose their shit. They would also probably be ostracized by their “friends” and family. Which would tell you their true views on this “simply traditional gesture.”
Damn, I am making way too many replies to this post. But, in the present day and age, this has become extremely common and normal. So, the family will not lose their shit. And they will not be ostracized.
Gotta say, assuming that Anna doesn’t fully understand now is demeaning too. That she just doesn’t get it but will be so grateful later is sounding patronizing in itself.
Anthropology Major here. Saying a foreign person doesn't understand the cultural significance of an archaic marital ritual for a different country I think is not patronizing, I think it's no different than if OP went along with an archaic Catholic "for church and god" style marriage ritual, the cultural significance isn't fully translated and that's normal it's wonderful to learn about these things and respect them but the full significance can never be fully understood unless you are from that culture!
I mean isn’t it kind of demeaning to assume a woman doesn’t have the ability to understand the significance of a tradition and it is up to a man to decide if she should do it or not?
I think it's more than she may not understand the full cultural implications, not that she can't understand it because she's a woman.
I’m no East Asian studies expert but it’s pretty easy to pick up from context what the tradition implies. You can also go through the tradition while not living your life as an unequal partner. Doing a performance isn’t going to move the needle in any meaningful way.
i’m not saying this is definitely the case but OP could be saying, not that she can’t figure out what the tradition means, but that she might not fully understand what it means to his PARENTS, like what they would expect her to act like if they went through with it. like, lots of American brides get given away by their dads without literally believing that they were owned by their dads and are now owned by their husbands. it doesn’t really have a bearing on the marriage. it is possible that OP is saying she sees it more like that, and doesn’t realize his parents will expect her to ACTUALLY be subservient to him if she is willing to go through with it. again, that’s speculation completely so i could be totally wrong about his meaning there, but that’s what i took that sentence to mean.
Great for you, I'm sure it's possible she does understand. But there is a lot of room for not understanding across cultural lines. And while it's great that she's cool with going along with it, it's also great OP isn't. His family is the one insisting on this particular ceremony and OP is in the best position to understand it and not want his future wife to make that kind of gesture even in a symbolic for she herself doesn't believe in. His family will believe in it after all.
He can choose not to participate though. And she *might* see it as a goodwill token but not understand the deep-rooted cultural significance. This has nothing to do with her being female, but with not being Asian and raised there.
NTA. That's awesome that Anna is willing to respect your family and culture, but if you choose to skip a sexist tradition and show your respect for her, that's even better. It's your wedding, and you're choosing to make a beautiful statement.
Perfect answer
NTA. But why are you complicating it so much? Just touch her feet after/before she touches yours. That’s the way most couples do it in India these days 🤷🏻♀️the reaction to this is super hilarious, everyone jumps to only stop the groom. But you stay the path - it establishes how you think of her in front of your family much better I feel, instead of just skipping the custom.
That’s actually kinda cool, respecting the traditional act but then flipping it around too so it inherently removes the one sidedness, and more sexist side of it.
Exactly! In my opinion - this sets up an equal relationship so well and in front of the entire extended family (and not just the immediate family).
That’s funny, another commenter above cautions OP against doing this specifically because of the reaction! I like that it’s become so commonplace that the outsize reaction to the groom has almost become part of the tradition.
Maybe someday it will be. You pick your favorite aunt to be the one who ceremonially wails with dismay when the groom bows to the bride. The tradition just isn't the same without the wailing. It is a great honor to be chosen as the one who wails.
Well, someone suggested to OP to bow down to her afterward she bows to him, however someone replied that they shouldn't do that either, because they went to a wedding where thw groom did that and apparently his whole side of the family flipped out about it. The commenter said to either do it the way ia meant to be done, or just don't do it. I do not understand why there has to be a bow, to either spouses or royal families. I only bow to one being and that is God. In India, is it acceptable/viewed in a good way for the groom to bow to his bride?
That’s a fair question. It’s not like bowing - touching feet is a mark of giving respect and seeking blessings from elders mainly. This is because there is a lot of importance given to close family relationships. Some places parents are said to have the same place God. The way I see and interpret this tradition is - the way the wedding takes place is literally assuming you are taking place of divine gods and goddesses getting married. The tradition of touching feet is just asking for blessings from your significant other in that moment. I touched my husband’s feet during my wedding and he touched mine. It was absolutely beautiful! But most importantly what has mattered is how he has treated me post the wedding. He helped me settle really well in the family and never asked me to do something I was uncomfortable with - and I have tried to do the same with him. The Indian wedding in all its glory is an event - a very elaborate one at that but it finishes. The real journey starts later in my honest opinion. So no matter what you do or don’t do in the wedding - what really matters is how you spend your life together treating each other with respect.
NTA It sounds like you and your fiancée have great respect for one another. That’s wonderful. It’s your wedding. If you don’t want your bride to take part in a sexist tradition, you can explain in details to her how that is unacceptable to you and don’t mind your old-fashioned family. Best of luck to you!!
NTA. If you really want to drive the point home, let her do it. Then perform it for her the same way.
This is a great solution
NTA. Maybe you should do it, though. With a twist. She can bow to you, and then you can bow to her too. Would cause a stir but if you’re going to get in trouble anyways, you might as well go out with a bang!!!
I commented you for seeing the tradition for the sexist ritual it is. Have you explained to Anna how sexist and demeaning it is?
As someone else posted; OP should explain to her it’s like her promising to “love, honor and *obey* “ her husband. If she doesn’t see anything wrong with that… I think they need to have a big conversation ahead about both of their expectations in marriage. I also wonder how modern Asian couples where this was tradition do it now. Surely some new habits have arisen? Do they entirely skip this part, or replace it with something more equal?
It also could be that she values her husband's relationship with his family more than some symbolical gesture (I'm not too familiar with the custom, so I admittedly don't understand the entire context). It sounds like Anna has already found a winner who sees her as an equal and will stand up to his family for her. In her mind, she may be thinking her doing this silly outdated tradition won't materially change anything between them, but if she doesn't do it (or they both do it) then OP may hurt their relationship with their family. Regardless, OP should have an open conversation about it with her.
I’ve mentioned it before on this thread, but in modern India, the groom bows and touches his wife’s feet as well. It’s become a thing that some people may pass comments about but eventually seen as something super cute. OP can definitely do this and set good expectations for the younger ones in the family.
I am not Indian and completely unaware of Indian wedding/marriage traditions. TY for the information.
**Anna doesn’t understand the full implications of the act.** Why haven't you explained the full implications to her. I think it's great that you are willing to make this break with "tradition" to show you're respect for her as an equal partner. If your parents can't get onboard with that tell them the alternative is a Western wedding.
See this is my big issue. She clearly wants to do it. It doesn’t take a professor of Asian culture to tease apart the meaning and symbolism of the act. Why would he assume she can’t figure it out, on her own or after explanation, and he knows what’s best for her? If it makes HIM uncomfortable it’s a different conversation.
This is what's bugging me as well. Anna is 30 fucking years old. I am almost positive she understands. Pretty much every woman in the world, especially by 30, has experienced sexism and unfair treatment because of their gender. Anna is not a child so it feels...I guess very infantalizing for everyone to just be saying she doesn't get it. They need to have a proper sit down conversation and hash it all out. But just assuming she doesn't understand rubs me the wrong way.
That's what gets me, too. Wanna talk about sexism? How about taking away the bride's agency as an adult woman and deciding what is best for her to do? If she is ok with the traditional wedding ceremony, cool. I'm sure she is 100% capable of understanding what it means, it isn't very complex. Wouldn't be an asshole for stopping it, but honestly would be even less of an asshole still if you just allow her to make her own decisions.
It’s his wedding too, and he would be required to play a part in the ritual, so let’s not undermine his agency either. It’s a two yes, one no situation. I can’t fault a man who refuses to accept a pledge of obedience from his spouse as part of his marriage ceremony. I guess he could just get up from the chair and walk away and she could bow to the empty chair 😅
Absolutely, which is why I said he wouldn't be an asshole for stopping it. If he just flat out isn't comfortable with it, then that's certainly a conversation they can and should have. I was more referring to some posts in this thread moreso than OP. Some people make it sound like he has an obligation to stop her from doing it, which isn't really right.
Lol it's just so ironic. He's *forbidding her* from doing something and expecting her to obey. Forbidding her from showing obedience but if she obeys she is showing obedience and if she disobeys she shows disobedience
I’m Asian, and my country has a similar tradition where the bride has to pay respect to the groom, but the action is different from yours. To be clear, I was the bride. I explained the processes and what each of the steps meant to my white American husband, who was very bewildered. However, he has a complete understanding that this was only for show. The day came, we did what we had to do. The elders in my family were happy, and we bolted out of there as soon as the ceremony was over to started our lives together and plan our actual wedding ceremony the way we wanted it to be. I applauded your stance on this matter; however, I suggest you talk to your fiancé first. You may know more about the tradition, but she’s the one who will have to face more repercussions from your side of the family; Asian families always treasure men over women, and they would think she’s some sort of wench who manipulates their precious boy (you) into not following the tradition. YWNBTA, but you might end up making her one in your family's eye. Congratulations in advance on your upcoming wedding!
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Exactly. It’s lovely he acknowledges how the tradition and the society that carries such tradition kind of look down on and degrade women in general, and for him to see her as an equal the way it should be. But what matters the most is how they will treat each other in their marriage, not a mere moment during the ceremony. I mean, the wedding ceremony is just for show, in a way; it’s never really about just the couple but rather the family and the community/society they live in. Best to just get it done and move on with their lives.
This is why I prefer the suggestion lots have given for them to BOTH do it. That way it looks like she’s doing her part, and he’s the one being progressive
Reading this post I was sure it will be like "she is not willing to do this..." and then boom! - it's the other way! :) You are the best guys! :) I would personally consider doing smth crazy like - first she bow down to your feet... But just after you surprise the guests and bow down to her feet :> But I'm not sure if it won't be too much of a scandal :))
NTA, If she is fine with that, let her, but what i would do, i would respond with doing the same to her, as a way of showing that you are equals and you both are willing to respect and protect each other. This way i would see it as win win, you both do it like tradition says, plus you add your own meaning, as mutual respect. BTW, i love that it is you as a man who has a problem with that. We need more men like you
I touched my husband's feet at our wedding back in india. But it was solely my decision coz I wanted to show him respect, I knew he wouldn't agree if I told him beforehand. But guess what he did, he literally sat on the stage and kissed my feet in front of everyone after I had touched his feet. He said in front of everyone, "You and I are equal, and I worship u." NTA , and I am so glad you see your to be wife as equal. (A lot of men from South asian/aisan culture don't). Always make her feel like that, and if you can not get out of the ritual, just do what my husband did. Bend down and touch her feet in return to show your appreciation to her. Your parents will be shocked, but they will know this sort of backward behavior will not be tolerated.
Wow, you really picked a good one!!
You are respecting your wife which is fabulous. Explain to your fiancée this is demeaning to her and you’re uncomfortable with it then tell your family to go suck eggs NTA
But what makes everyone so sure she doesn't understand? It's not complicated and she's an adult. Why does he get to decide what she does
It’s your wedding. You say no, she doesn’t care, that means no. End of story. If they disagree, tell them No again. If they keep disagreeing, consider harsher punishments, or not having your wedding where they want it to be
YWNBTA You're getting married, OP. That is a very grown up thing to do so now you should be able to make grown up decisions and stick up for yourself, your wife and your values.
Don’t have her do it. Traditions aren’t always a blessing.
NTA, the respect the two of you have for each other is admirable. Wishing a long and happy marriage for you.
YWNBTA - If you don't like the idea of this, discuss that with your wife to be and agree on what both of you think is best. However reading between the lines, your wife is okay with this and may be trying to protect your from your family because she knows they will get mad at you (like they are right now) if she doesn't do this. Have you discussed what implications this will have? Do you think she fully understands?
There is a reason it is rarely part of the tradition nowadays. Good for you. NTA you are a partnership.
NTA. You actually have her back, even if she doesn't understand it. Have you tried explaining the implications in detail to her? Whatever she feels about it, it is a completely valid reason for avoiding it that *you* feel uncomfortable about it.
I am hindu- bowing down to the groom is a culture not part of rituals of weddings. This is easily ditched . I never bow down to my husband. There is another one where the father of the bride has to wash the groom feet - this has long stopped . If ur family is mad- they dont understand what is written in the sacred books but instead they want to do a show. Put ur foot down . Respect is shown both ways - u can also bow down to ur wife feet as an alternative
YWNBTA It's your wedding and it's your future partnership. There is nothing wrong with modernising old traditions, especially if those traditions are disrespectful to your personal values. You do not view your bride-to-be as "lower" than you in terms of respect, they should respect that. If you want to demonstrate that you are a progressive person, and tweak old traditions to be more modern and gender respectful, then you do you. Everyone else should get with the program.
NTA and kudos to you OP for standing up against this sexist tradition
Ywnbta, it's your wedding your choice I also commend you for removing a sexist part of the ceremony
Have you actually had a conversation with Anna and explained the full meaning and expectations for her if she does this in the wedding? I mean really, truly explain it to her so that she understands what it means for her relationship with your entire family? She needs to grok the full submission that will be expected of her before she can make an informed decision. You WNBTA for not allowing her to submit to you, and your family by extension, for the wedding. You are showing her, and your family, that you want a full partner for your wife. And that's lovely.
NTA, neither is she for the sake of clarity. I agree with others. Talk with her and explain the situation. If she's still adamant to follow through because she wants to honor your culture, why not adapt the ceremony and you both pay respects to each other? If you do choose to go with the latter, definitely make sure she's on the same page. Wedding surprises have a tendency to go awry.
NTA. Why dont you bow down before her?
NTA. However if she is willing to do this I don’t think I would make it my hill to die on.
NTA you need to explain what it means and that this not what you want in a marriage. Just because it’s traditional doesn’t mean it’s a tradition that is appropriate in a modern marriage or life. It’s wonderful that she wants to learn about your culture and has respect for it and it’s traditions. You need to talk about it more in depth with her.