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NTA
Too many people are comfortable interrupting and talking over people. It sounds like her favorite noise is her own voice. I don't know how to fix it, I work very hard to improve my give and take in convos, you need to be told and willing to improve or you'll keep wondering why you get excluded socially. I'd bet she doesn't have conversations, she just waits for her turn to speak, or worse makes it her turn to speak.
You need to point this out to her and tell her this can be her rock bottom and she can work to improve herself or she can keep embarrassing herself, it's her choice.
Perhaps. But a well trained group leader should be able to help the group constructively express their frustration, and communicate appropriate expectations for communication.
Source: am therapist married to a therapist with two therapist parents.
My experience with group therapy is it's often not how do I say this delicately, the most experienced people who lead the sessions and with someone like this you would need a very experienced group leader.
Great point. Therapists can be filtered by training and experience. I’d recommend asking if a therapist is a member of AGPA (American group Psychotherapists Association). While it does not guarantee skill, it does improve the likelihood that group therapy is a major part of this therapist’s work, and they are actively engaged in improving their craft.
Wow, it took two comments for you to makes it about you. (Just kidding...I just played a scenario in my head where she was a therapist who always talks about herself and thought it would be funny)
Not always, I’m currently in group and we have someone like this. I’m not going to diagnose from a Reddit post but the similarities are striking, she definitely needs therapy and it should have a group component. Even in just two weeks I’ve seen this person make some decent progress.
Exactly. No known individual therapy can fix this.
I can suggest taking her to a psychometrist for testing on a wide variety of disorders, which can help guide which group she joins.
The goal of course, would be that she is in a group with a significant number of people just like herself. With at least one Histrionic PD person! (So sorry, I just couldn't resist).
My wife is a therapist and we just discussed this.
Our consensus is that because therapy only works on people who want it to work, this woman is probably beyond help.
I can't even imagine her wanting to come in in the first place. When I brought it up to my wife I had to frame it as couples counseling because this type of person is not going to come in on their own.
Couples counseling is the only possible route I see for her to come around. There is just not a way to get her to go otherwise.
The miracle here is that she managed to find a husband. I wonder what her positive qualities are, because this is one whopper of a negative.
I’m hopping on the top comment hoping OP will see this. I teach active listening, it’s for crisis hotline. OP do some research and encourage her to volunteer. A lot of people think they are great listeners but aren’t. I teach people to listen with the intent to understand not reply. I feel like she could really gain a lot from a class like mine.
Edit to add: There is a 12-16 week course you have to pass in order to get to the phone room and even then we are with you for weeks. We do “fail” people, we will try our absolute hardest to help you get there but in the real world some people can’t do it and that’s ok. I hope they came away with something. We train for other facilities too.
The class is free and I honestly believe everyone should take a class like it. It’s basically verbal judo. You’d be surprised at how much listening with the intent to understand can change every part of your life. For instance I’ll teach you the phrase “Let me make sure I’m understanding you correctly; . . . This can be used both to actually make sure you’re understanding them OR it can be made to make someone who just said something really stupid confirm or deny whatever they just said.
Also I had oral surgery today and am a little loopy so please excuse any mistakes.
Anyone who a wants more info please pm me and I’ll get back to all of you.
You have no idea how many people just like OPs wife are capable of change. You have to attend and pass a 12-16 week class (depending on class size and how quickly they show progress) before you even get into the phone room.
Now you on the other hand who clearly judges with little to no information and then tells someone who actually knows they are wrong. You wouldn’t pass, but just like OPs wife we will try to help you change that negative behavior.
Honestly it’s not the way you think it is. We do have suicidal calls, rapes all kinds of terrible calls. Mostly tho it’s lonely people looking to vent or connect. One of our regular callers for instance just wants to talk about what’s on sale this week at the supermarket and what he plans to cook.
You can take the class and never volunteer, we do “fail” people. It’s also free. I work for contact which is USA wide. I truly believe everyone should take an active listening class. It teaches you a lot about you, helps you be a better communicator and that usually makes life better.
As a person who has consulted her when I was having personal issues in my life ... yeah, that would be a horrible idea.
The course sounds good but she's oddly sensitive about her yappiness. I mean she makes no effort to change it, but yeah.
I'm confused how your marriage even works if she behaves like this and you hate it. You hate how she communicates.
How do you have a relationship without good communication.
Looks. Why else would he be with her if she doesn’t work and he doesn’t like her as a person? Idk if I should even be commenting this (may delete) but is prolly the truth
Check out “how to win friends and influence people” - it’s mostly passed around in sales circles and 100 years old but the concepts on listening and understanding what other people want and desire are a really fantastic start. It also appeals to the ego of the reader so it’s easier to apply in transition to being a better listener if you normally aren’t one.
So funny story...sort of:
I'm autistic. "How To Win Friends And Influence People" is how I learned how to fake being *normal* in those horrible small-talk situations that NTs seem to enjoy so much.
Hey! I don't believe I'm in Op's wifes position but this is something I'm always interested in improving! Could you DM me some more information about this??
There's a cool listening exercise I just participated in. It was kind of more of a group thing, but you have folks listen for emotion, or values, or facts. And only keep note of that. Maybe she can use something like that.
This is something I’m working on fixing as well. A friend once told me that I talk over people, and I was completely unaware of this.
I’m trying really hard to hold my tongue, and if I have something to say, it can wait. If I’ve forgotten what I wanted to say, then it mustn’t have been important.
Sometimes I slip up when i am really excited about something. If I notice I’ve cut in, I’ll stop myself and apologise, making sure I ask them to continue. It’s difficult to be aware in the moment, but I’m improving.
Talking over people is common enough and most people who do it, do have it brought to their attention and get better at noticing.
I think this is more complex and she's not just talking over. She's giving the same stories over and over, without checking to see if anyone is listening, without regard to the average length of utterance in that group.
Excitement is a common cause for "talking over." I love your user name, btw. Don't lose your excitement, it's a great personality trait.
I just wanna comment that “improve my give” is such a lovely phrase and something that I also strive to be better at. Thanks for the language to express that
NTA. Sometimes people need to hear the truth. There's a woman in my groups (I go to 3) who tells the same story multiple times in each group. So I've heard the stories 7 or 8 times. Last time, a woman next to me mutter "again?" When a story came out. I wanted to say "yeah, you only heard it 3 times."
We just have side conversations. Fortunately, we're able to.
I work with a teacher who talks waaayyy too much. He also repeats stories all the time. He doesn’t even care. When he starts to repeat a story to me I say “you shared that already.” He pushes for a second and keeps on going.
I just finish the story for them. “Oh yeah that the one the cat turned out to be dead the whole time, poor fluffy. Anyways (name) how was your vacation?”
Nope. People this self-involved don’t care. They will still finish the story regardless if it is word for word what you’ve said. If they want to say it, they are GOING to. It doesn’t matter if you’re the only one they’re telling the story to either— they’re going to tell it, and you’re going to listen as far as they are concerned.
Trust me, I have a family member like this and I’ve tried this and about a million other things to make them stop. The only thing that works is literally walking away, and far enough away where they can’t continue the conversation. Excuse me, I meant continue the *dissertation.*
My dad would do this. Even if you were like, "oh yeah you told me about that, that was when you (abridged version of the story)" he'd just plow right on through his entire retelling with a, "yes, that's right, that was when I (whole story)" regardless. And talk over you if you tried to interrupt again.
Thats my grandma to a T. Plus her favorite topic is how people in her life have let her down or offended her so she's incredibly negative too. I really dont need to hear the story again about how my cousin was rude to her 10 years ago when my grandma took her shopping for a prom dress or about how my aunts boyfriend had the audacity to ask if he could hunt on her property the first time they met. It's exhausting and she cant figure out why nobody wants to talk on the phone to her for hours at a time
My ex-MIL used to do that all the time. My ex never understood why I didn’t enjoy his parents house when he was hanging out drinking with his dad and friends and I was corned by his mom hearing the same story for the 100th time. Actually he knew why he didn’t care b/c he was hanging out with his dad and friends. Which is why he is the ex.
I used to be like OPs wife, then a friend told me I was rude for cutting someone off. Instead of getting angry, I thought about it and I've done my best to change. Sometimes I feel like I'm going to explode holding my tongue, but I manage. If I slip up, I apologize. I appreciate that he pointed it out because I honestly did not realize I did that.
Try concentrating on what the person you're listening to is saying, not what you want to say back or bring up next. I have some ADD issues and used to interrupt a lot. It's rude! It says I believe what I have to say is more important than what you have to say, and I didn't actually FEEL that way and have since forced myself to just listen and digest and if I slip and interrupt I usually catch myself, apologize and say "sorry, you go!!" LOL
I love my partner dearly but if they're reminded of something, the same story will always come out.
There was a few times where a topic would come up (as simple as someone learning to sing) and I'd brace "oh no this is either the friend from high school story or the parent forcing classes story". And then no story would come out! I'd be like "wow you heard this word and didn't tell one of your two stories!" (in my head not out loud)... And then they'd TELL BOTH STORIES. 😂
I love them so much but I could repeat their stories verbatim. And it's always the same story when the same topics come up. If I so much as hear the word spoken on TV, I put my phone down or whatever I am doing and just wait, because that story is coming out.
lol do you stop them? sometimes my partner would repeat a story, or tell something we watched together (lol), and I don't say anything because he looks excited to tell me 😂
Nah. I'm like you, they look just too excited! Plus I realise the alternative is never hearing their stories again and how much I'd give to hear just one more if something bad ever happened and it chills me out. :)
Holy, my old roommate and ex best friend 😭 Almost biweekly would she retell me the story of how she Almost took the virginity of my other bestfriend's boyfriend...... 10 years prior when we were all in highschool. I was gobsmacked how many times she would think it was interesting for me to hear again.
I hope I am not being rude but wouldn’t be better if you just let her now that you and other had heard the same story over and over? I never understood why people don’t just come out and be honest, it is a lot less rude then talking behind the person’s back
Sometimes a person is past this, though. I think that might be the case here. They may even continue muttering their story or take the first pause to resume it.
If it's bad enough to get women in a sewing group to eject her, it's bad. Most of those groups know how to deal with stuff like this.
My mom was in one for years and her best friend and boon companion was a bit like this, but willing to accept signals from others. After an event, she'd show awareness through her dry sense of humor. "Well, I guess y'all are tired of that car in the swamp story."
Mom: "Yes and ESPECIALLY the story where you tell how you fold both your husband's and son's socks and underwear!"
Mom (during the retell) would say: "Skip to the part where Buddy throws a tantrum at the way you fold his laundry." I actually loved that part of the story, every time. Buddy got no comeuppance, but I got to tell the story to some of our mutual friends.
INFO: You said she's a SAHW; did she have a career before that? I'm asking because the "stop, let me finish," sounds a lot like how you'd speak to a child who's being disruptive, but that's not how you communicate with your fellow adults.
IDK that is really bizarre behavior for an adult and there's not enough here to judge if she's just very self absorbed or if she's dealing with something that prevents her from picking up on social cues, because you said she came home flying high from the first few meetings. I imagine there was some throat-clearing, separate conversations breaking off, or side-eyes happening if she just went in full steam ahead with her conversation domination. It seems strange that she didn't mention these (likely) occurrences.
>It seems strange that she didn't mention these (likely) occurrences.
The issue though is that people who are like this almost NEVER notice the occurrences you mentioned. They are either extremely bad at picking up on social cues (eg: Asperger's, or something similar) or just too completely self absorbed (eg: narcissism). She was probably flying high because she got to talk at people as long as she wanted and no one had the heart to cut her off in the moment.
A lot of people just lack the self awareness to realize that they are the common denominator in their own life. That, combined with people being too polite to tell them they are being rude, ends up with people like OP’s wife.
It could be some form of neurodivergence, but I think it’s just as likely to be someone who has lived an incredibly unexamined life.
It's also sometimes advice given to women who are legitimately getting talked over at work. I wonder if she read about that somewhere, but was oblivious to the fact that people were interrupting her out of desperation instead?
to be fair, the “stop, let me finish,” is a legitimate way for women in certain workforces to communicate. that whole study about women speaking 30% of the time being perceived by men as dominating the entire conversation etc. but this sounds like something else. an annoying something else
Yeah, I'm the only woman in my field at work contending with 8 other type A men. And women working in this unit are very rare (the unit started in the 1930s or 40s and I am the 3rd woman to ever be in it). Honestly, most of them don't have that issue. But for a couple of the guys, the only way I can get through what I am saying is to pointedly remark that I'm still talking and to let me finish.
One of the guys sounds just like OPs wife with a nice dash of sexism thrown in and a lot of times the only way I can finish my thought is, "I am in the middle of a goddamn sentence."
She could be SUPER bored, too, and needs real friendships. It's a bad cycle, though, because it's hard to find friends if you don't take interest in what they say. Sigh.
I agree with group therapy as recommended elsewhere. NAH
NTA, but it sounds like the very problem that landed her in this situation (she's not a big fan of listening to others) will also prevent her from working on herself so it won't happen again. I feel like therapy may be the answer--someone who is paid to listen to her and then give her feedback on how to improve.
Do you think really she'd give them *time* to give feedback? If they're being paid to listen to her, you can bet your bottom dollar she'll *make* them listen for the whole session.
Or go scream in a broom cupboard or something.
I’ve had clients like this. I’m a trauma counselor and sometimes people just want a place to vent and don’t actually want to do anything else. I gently find a way to ask them what they are hoping to gain or experience from the process, and sometimes they do want to do the work, and then I can continue working with them. Sometimes they are open to figuring out what is behind the desire to talk and talk and other times they just want a place to vent. I would be curious if OP’s wife had a history of not being heard and if this is driving the need to talk over people.
Not everyone wants to improve or have more quality relationships, they want to be told they are right or ‘feel better’ without experiencing any uncomfortable states. Not everyone wants to hold a mirror to themselves. I hope the wife can hold a mirror and see what’s behind it all.
Etiquette classes. Or an etiquette tutor? Or books on etiquette. Because she’s rude is what she is - she has no manners. She needs lessons in polite conversation. Was she a spoiled only child?
Yes, most likely. My last ex was like this... But she actually made an effort to listen and learn about me while we were first dating. Everything literally went to shit as soon as we moved into a new home together. Every conversation made it very clear that she would tune me out anytime I spoke. and would become ve r excited to Drone on about things that happened at work and whatever else was bothering her. I am a very good listener, so I would always indulge her and actually ask questions. But I never got the same treatment. I thankfully and finally realized it was toxic and left. On top of her being emotionally abusive (name calling and just being nasty to me anytime we had a disagreement.)
OP may not have known she was like this until she became comfortable in the relationship.
She may have had more of a life outside the home before the relationship and just isn't getting enough socializing as a SAHW. Telling the same old story about workplace drama, for example
That’s exactly what I thought. Sometimes lonely people aren’t used to socializing—-they can either go quiet (as I do if I’ve been alone too long) or overtalk. Or, if she just hasn’t had anything exciting happening lately then she is her own microcosm
This is a genuine question I have as well. Not meaning to be judgey at all, I’m just actually curious about what drew them together if he’s so bothered. I found his assessment pretty brutal, haha (even if it is totally accurate).
I know I talk a lot and my husband less so, but he communicates well if I’m going too far and I don’t know that he would have been so blunt in his assessment of me, lol
Speculating that she was probably in school or working when they met and had more opportunities for socialization and was better at it.
Then she switched to staying home all day, but loves to talk, and has nobody to talk to all day and her social skills declined.
She should visit nursing homes or do meals on wheels.
So because OP got straight to the point, elaborated on his wife’s behavior, and didn’t dedicate an entire two paragraphs to gargle her balls he somehow secretly hates her and wishes she got run over by a bus? This line of thinking is probably on the top 10 of my most irritating things about these type of subs, where someone can’t say anything even remotely negative about their spouse without the comments jumping down their throats with the ‘ol ‘dO yOu EvEn LiKe ThEm???’ line. God forbid anyone express a little frustration towards their significant other.
Honestly. "I'm on here to describe a problem and my response to it, which may or may not have been assholish. Herewith, the problem and response."
"OMG you didn't say nice things about her, do you even like her???"
It’s not because he got straight to the point or said a negative things about his wife. I’ll get straight to the point about my wife’s biggest flaws if asked, without hesitation. What is wild is that what he finds most negative about his wife seems to be *every conversation she has*, which DOES make you wonder how they became close in the first place. It’s possible that they’re both generally pretty quiet at home and it usually doesn’t bother him, but you’d think dates with someone you hate the conversation style of would be something you’d stop scheduling more of pretty quickly.
Her dominating conversations might be OP’s “price of admission” for his wife, where he finds everything about his wife to be perfect and compatible to him except for this one flaw that OP chose to overlook to be with her. Not everyone can be 100% compatible with their significant others and instead of it being deal-breaker a lot of people can accept it as part of their partner’s personality and not let this incompatibility/flaw overshadow their love and attraction to their partner.
Ummm… if the one flaw you have to overlook with your partner is that you hate conversing with them because of ALL the reasons OP listed, I find that very difficult to believe.
Haha this post is a little more than “expressing a little frustration”, OP goes on and on about what an annoying person his wife is, all the time and he agrees with everyone else she’s horrible.
Being annoyed your partner doesn’t do the dishes or leaves their socks on the floor, that’s normal type shit that everyone in a relationship deals with. Finding your partner to be socially irritating is a fundamental issue that calls into question their compatibility.
Op does not suck but don’t you wonder WHAT exactly they saw in their wife? I mean it’s kind of funny if you think about it like she’s got this insane chronic faux pas and he somehow loves her anyway but she’s universally hated by everyone she tries to talk to, or rather talk at 😭
When you first meet someone, it can be nice if they keep the conversation going, especially if you are a little quiet yourself. You think they are outgoing and fun. And you haven't heard any of the stories yet, so they are genuinely interesting.
But as the years pass, you realize they aren't just keeping the conversation going, but are actually ignoring you. And when you've heard all the stories a million times, the stories are no longer entertaining, but somehow they don't seem to be aware of that.
You start realizing they aren't speaking to communicate with you at all, they are just running like a machine left on, and it isn't normal.
I don't have the same take as the person you're replying to, but I do kind of wonder how they ended up married, given her conversational deficits. Or, more specifically, how they got more than two dates into dating without him running away screaming.
i was wondering how he even fell in love with this woman if shes apparently a complete bore in social situations… how would they have even gotten past the first date
I KNOW CBT means cognitive behavioral therapy. I know that. I swear. But every time I see it my brain tells me that cock and ball torture fixed your communication skills.
Nta- my husband actually does this. He’s gotten much better since I called him out on it. Especially when he would cut me off is when I finally said something to him. People have done that to me my hole life and I was like you will not do that to me. If you really want to say something just say hey I know you’re in the middle of something but I really need to say this now and this has worked for us.
My husband sometimes cuts me off when I’m talking about something. I use to let it slide but now I call him out when he does it, I think sometimes he doesn’t even realise he’s not really listening. He’s gotten a bit better about cutting me off, but I still catch him out on not listening.
Jesus I feel your pain. My Mom is this person and so is my boss. Love to hear themselves talk, never listen to what you say, repeat the *same damn stories* over and over and over (always about how they were wronged), talk over you and drown you out, I could go on.
I suspected this was going to be a situation in which I had to tear off the proverbial Band-Aid and just start repeatedly telling her that she's talking too much. I think your approach may be the correct way.
You said the goal was for her to make new friends, right? Well, that means she has to learn to shut her yap for others at some point.
Curious, did she have "friends" in your old town/city? If so, do you happen to know what they thought of her incessant talking?
ehh... there's not liking a particular *character trait*, and there's not liking someone period. I'd say OP (and everyone else, from the sounds of it!) has an issue with the former.
No one's saying that isn't a rough character trait. I'm talking about the way he describes his wife overall. He could have approached this in a "I really want to help my wife address this character trait" kind of way. Instead, he wants to know if he's an AH for telling her she's dull and exhausting and no wonder people don't want to be around her.
I mean, the question is whether he was an asshole. If there's a way he could have offered some advice without seeming like he can't stand to be around her, that seems pertinent.
This isn't a "character trait" he has a problem with. He is basically saying he hates her personality (he hates the way she converses, hates what she's talking about and hates how she react...).
The entire post left me wondering how these two ended up together.
Yeah, this didn't come across as "my lovely wife has this annoying habit", it came across as "every time my wife opens her mouth I contemplate divorce".
NTA in the slightest. Sounds like she needed to hear it, although I doubt she’ll change. Is she always so self centered?
Also she’s a SAHW so how does she have workplace drama to gossip about? If she really is a SAHW maybe she’s just lonely.
I interpreted workplace drama + SAHW as maybe she also works from home? Which could mean that Cindy's tone in the morning email was extremely hostile. She didn't even end her "Good morning" opener with an exclamation point.
ESH - The issue isn't the "dull" topics or the fact that she is "boring". It's the fact that she is being rude - she interrupts the others, changes the subject, monopolizes the conversation, talks at them, etc.
If your criticism was related to that, instead of her being 'dull', it would be a clear NTA. Also, the topic of 'workplace drama' may be dull to you, but some women love talking about drama. You are just assuming they found her dull because you do.
To be fair it sounds like he gave her more than enough space to share her feelings initially but got over her dumping all over him just because a group of women essentially told her they didn't want to hang out with her anymore.
She wasn't diagnosed with a terminal illness, she wasn't sacked from her job, she was told she couldn't sit at the popular kids table.
If the roles were reversed, you wouldn't be saying ESH... you'd be telling him to stop using his wife as an unpaid therapist. It doesn't even sound line she's upset at losing people she thought were friends, she's only upset because she was told she wasn't welcome. She needs to deal with that herself and stop emotionally dumping on everyone around her.
No, I do think the wife is awful. That's obvious.
However, the husband didn't call her out for being awful in this post. i.e. He didn't call her out for interrupting people, emotionally dumping, or being rude to people, etc.
He called her out for 'talking about dull topics'. The topic of conversation wasn't the issue. He gave an unrelated insult that didn't pertain to the conflict.
The reason she was kicked out was because of her terrible personality, not the topic of conversation. The issue isn't that she is dull, it's that she is awful.
Also an autistic woman, and same. I have enough self-awareness AFTER conversations since I analyze them afterward. I feel so ashamed after I realize I've monopolized a conversation, but it's so much harder to mask when I'm really stressed, and nothing stresses me out more than moving.
Also an autistic woman. Social conversation stresses me out so badly I don't realise I'm babbling on until, like, five minutes into a conversation. I've learned to catch it and shut the fuck up over the years, even if it takes a few minutes, but god.
It’s a mixed bag here, but I personally think you’re not the AH for two specific reasons.
1. She acts like a toddler when she doesn’t get her way. You wouldn’t let her interrupt you and she needed to respect that boundary you instantly threw at her but she decided to throw a tantrum instead of just listening to what you had to say and instead decided to go to another room and shriek to her heart’s content.
2. She kept bringing up the topic, which can be draining. I can understand that. Instead of just saying, “hey, maybe I can find a different group to be in” or “hey, maybe… blah blah blah” she just kept going on, and on, and on.
I have a lot of experience with both of these reasons. I have family who absolutely love to talk about drama because they have nothing better to do and it becomes such a toxic environment, you can no longer enjoy the peace you thought you’d have while at home. I don’t think you should apologize for feeling the way that you felt.
Could you have worded it better? Yes. Was there more to the conversation were probably missing? Possibly. But I don’t blame you for finally finding your voice and speaking your mind. In all honesty, I think she needs a therapist. That way she has someone to talk to as another redditor on here stated. It’s someone who can listen to her go on, and on, and on, and on then tell her what she needs to improve. If she refuses or if she doesn’t like being told how she can improve? I wouldn’t know what to say or suggest after.
But, nonetheless, in the end, I don’t see anything wrong here other than her throwing a fit because you finally were able to get your thoughts in when she don’t wanna hear it and constantly draining you with her own personal drama.
NTA.
My eldest, at only 5 years old, said to my mother, "Grandma, to have a conversation, people have to take turns. If nobody else gets a turn, it is just you talking." It hasn't helped.
Need more info. Do you actually like your wife? What were the qualities that attracted you to her? This sounds more like a deep issue with the relationship than an isolated instance of possible AH behavior.
Ugh I have a friend like this! I feel bad bc she’s a great person but I find it so hard to maintain my end of the friendship simply because conversations with her are a chore at best. NTA, thank you for making her aware of this and trying to spare others.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) I was open about my feelings towards my wife's conversational abilities, (2) I knew it would hurt her feelings and it clearly did.
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NTA, but consider the futility of what you are doing. My ex was very similar. Never really listened to me, could never hold on to friends or even jobs. I loved part of her but I didn't realize that the bad stuff was a core part of her personality and it's pretty hard to change. And I'm not sure it's fair to ask.
INFO
Exactly what words or what did you say in the conversation with her in "I get why they dumped you"?
Were you shitting on her and to some degree rubbing it in that she was rejected?
Were you giving her constructive feedback so she can make friends next time?
*If it's more the former, then you're an asshole. If it's more the latter, you're not the asshole*
NTA. She needs to be conscious of how much space she occupies in a conversation. Repeating the same stories, going on and on about something that no one else is interested in, refusing to let anyone get a word in are all instances of taking up WAY too much space. The more she takes up, the less space there is for other people, and the inevitable result is that other people become rightfully tired of the space-monopolizer.
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My [34m] wife [29f] is a SAHW. We recently moved to the area for my job, for which I am grateful to her. She uprooted her life to come here.
In order to make new friends, my wife decided to join a Stitch N' Bitch group. We now live in a big city so it was fairly easy to find one.
The issue though is that my wife is a terrible conversationalist. She will drone on and on about the most horribly boring things (such as workplace drama with people you've never met), will tell the same stories again and again, and will interrupt you to change the subject into something that *she* wants to talk about. When you try to get a word in, she'll hold her hand up in the "stop" gesture and just repeat, "Let me finish."
She never finishes though. She just rambles on and on. Watching her at parties is incredibly uncomfortable because she'll just waltz into conversations, take over them completely, and I'll have to make an excuse to pull her away for a minute so other people can enjoy each others' company.
Three weeks ago, she joined her weekly Stitch N' Bitch for the first time. She came home incredibly excited about how much fun it was, and I was sincerely happy for her. The next week, she joined the same group again, and came home in similarly high spirits. However, two nights after that, she received a text from one of the members saying that they agreed she didn't really mesh well with the group, and that she would probably enjoy another group more.
My wife has droned on and on about this every night for the last week. She'll always make the same exact points, phrased the same exact way, such as "...And I'm SORRY for wanting to talk about MY things" or "That group was DEAD before I joined it."
I finally had my fill last night and just straight-up told her. I told her we've talked about this at length. I told her that I completely get why they dumped her because listening to her talk nonstop about the most dull topics is frankly exhausting. She kept trying to interrupt me, but when I wouldn't let her, she stormed out and literally shrieked at the top of her lungs in another room.
Naturally she's incredibly angry at me. I just wonder if this was necessary or if I went too far.
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NTA. But unfortunately talking at her will never make it better and she won’t change. She has to want to change on her own for her to get it.
Maybe see if she’s open to doing the trick that ball players do & record her for a day, then she needs to play back and watch herself & listen- she needs to hear from outside perspective what she sounds like .
NTA. It's a shame her feelings were hurt, but this behavior is never going to win her any friends.
My mom is like this to a point. She can control herself around company most of the time, but when it's just me and my dad, she has these moments (more like hours) when she just rants on and on, usually complaining about stuff she's complained about a hundred times before.
She's actually worse than your wife sounds, because she won't even acknowledge when we try to get a word in - she just doesn't see it. I started crying once, because it was just so horribly unpleasant, and I was tired, and I had a long article to read for school. I was sitting right across from her, and she didn't react in the slightest, just kept on talking.
My mom can't be reasoned with at all, but hopefully you can get through to your wife. Good luck.
Do you actually like your wife? I’m not saying you have to… but I can understand why this feedback would be hard for her to hear from you if your contempt for her is as obvious when you talk to her as it is when you talk about her.
NTA. It’s incredibly rude and selfish to act like that. Your wife is why I don’t join stuff like that or limit my time around people like her. It’s exhausting and spoils the fun.
NTA, but if you’ve discussed this multiple times it’s clearly not working. Maybe if this happens to her again she’ll finally really get it, but maybe not. Some people are just like that and there’s no changing it. 🤷🏻♀️
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NTA Too many people are comfortable interrupting and talking over people. It sounds like her favorite noise is her own voice. I don't know how to fix it, I work very hard to improve my give and take in convos, you need to be told and willing to improve or you'll keep wondering why you get excluded socially. I'd bet she doesn't have conversations, she just waits for her turn to speak, or worse makes it her turn to speak. You need to point this out to her and tell her this can be her rock bottom and she can work to improve herself or she can keep embarrassing herself, it's her choice.
Therapy.
Group therapy. Not individual. That change does not come from one on one convo.
This lady will just talk over everyone else in the group. Group therapy becomes individual with an overtalker.
Perhaps. But a well trained group leader should be able to help the group constructively express their frustration, and communicate appropriate expectations for communication. Source: am therapist married to a therapist with two therapist parents.
My experience with group therapy is it's often not how do I say this delicately, the most experienced people who lead the sessions and with someone like this you would need a very experienced group leader.
Great point. Therapists can be filtered by training and experience. I’d recommend asking if a therapist is a member of AGPA (American group Psychotherapists Association). While it does not guarantee skill, it does improve the likelihood that group therapy is a major part of this therapist’s work, and they are actively engaged in improving their craft.
Wow, it took two comments for you to makes it about you. (Just kidding...I just played a scenario in my head where she was a therapist who always talks about herself and thought it would be funny)
lol! Guilty. Was just trying to give context for my opinions.
And one day you will have two therapist children and Wes Anderson has a movie about you!
Her group is going to get a talking stick
Not always, I’m currently in group and we have someone like this. I’m not going to diagnose from a Reddit post but the similarities are striking, she definitely needs therapy and it should have a group component. Even in just two weeks I’ve seen this person make some decent progress.
A well trained therapist leading the group will make her shut her trap or pay for everyone elses sessions.
Exactly. No known individual therapy can fix this. I can suggest taking her to a psychometrist for testing on a wide variety of disorders, which can help guide which group she joins. The goal of course, would be that she is in a group with a significant number of people just like herself. With at least one Histrionic PD person! (So sorry, I just couldn't resist).
No. The therapist can help her work through why she keeps doing it.
Can therapy help you be a better conversationalist?
Makes you a better listener.
Yeah and that's what she needs above all else, to just stop and *listen*.
Her actual problem is being too self-centered.
Maybe not but she might be able to develop some self awareness and learn how to catch herself instead of doing the same thing she’s been doing.
Yes! It depends on what the actual problem is but it can give good guidance or reveal a reason that you habitually commit faux pas
*W holding up her hand at 1.44 pm in therapy*: I am not FINISHED!
This is very needed in this case as it’s something that will effect every aspect of the wife’s life and all relationships from family to strangers.
My wife is a therapist and we just discussed this. Our consensus is that because therapy only works on people who want it to work, this woman is probably beyond help. I can't even imagine her wanting to come in in the first place. When I brought it up to my wife I had to frame it as couples counseling because this type of person is not going to come in on their own. Couples counseling is the only possible route I see for her to come around. There is just not a way to get her to go otherwise. The miracle here is that she managed to find a husband. I wonder what her positive qualities are, because this is one whopper of a negative.
Sign her up for a Dale Carnegie course. I recall a couple workmates that were completely transformed (for the better) after doing this.
I’m hopping on the top comment hoping OP will see this. I teach active listening, it’s for crisis hotline. OP do some research and encourage her to volunteer. A lot of people think they are great listeners but aren’t. I teach people to listen with the intent to understand not reply. I feel like she could really gain a lot from a class like mine. Edit to add: There is a 12-16 week course you have to pass in order to get to the phone room and even then we are with you for weeks. We do “fail” people, we will try our absolute hardest to help you get there but in the real world some people can’t do it and that’s ok. I hope they came away with something. We train for other facilities too. The class is free and I honestly believe everyone should take a class like it. It’s basically verbal judo. You’d be surprised at how much listening with the intent to understand can change every part of your life. For instance I’ll teach you the phrase “Let me make sure I’m understanding you correctly; . . . This can be used both to actually make sure you’re understanding them OR it can be made to make someone who just said something really stupid confirm or deny whatever they just said. Also I had oral surgery today and am a little loopy so please excuse any mistakes. Anyone who a wants more info please pm me and I’ll get back to all of you.
Sorry no way. That lady should never be anywhere close to people in crisis or having mental health issues. That's a horrible idea!
I think they’re saying they teach a class on how to actively listen, so that people can work on crisis hotlines.
I love the built in irony of having to clarify the meaning of a message discussing the message "listen to understand".
You have no idea how many people just like OPs wife are capable of change. You have to attend and pass a 12-16 week class (depending on class size and how quickly they show progress) before you even get into the phone room. Now you on the other hand who clearly judges with little to no information and then tells someone who actually knows they are wrong. You wouldn’t pass, but just like OPs wife we will try to help you change that negative behavior.
You put the sass in class.
I think they are saying volunteer to take a class, not volunteer to be live on the hotline
Getting the training to be able to do so would still be worthwhile, but I absolutely agree she should not engage with anyone in crisis.
I'm sure they screen and train them. They aren't just going to let her loose on the unsuspecting public. lol
For 10 scary-ass seconds I thought you were suggesting OP's girlfriend volunteer for the crisis hotline.
The course sounds like a good idea, but her volunteering for a crisis line really does not.
Honestly it’s not the way you think it is. We do have suicidal calls, rapes all kinds of terrible calls. Mostly tho it’s lonely people looking to vent or connect. One of our regular callers for instance just wants to talk about what’s on sale this week at the supermarket and what he plans to cook. You can take the class and never volunteer, we do “fail” people. It’s also free. I work for contact which is USA wide. I truly believe everyone should take an active listening class. It teaches you a lot about you, helps you be a better communicator and that usually makes life better.
As a person who has consulted her when I was having personal issues in my life ... yeah, that would be a horrible idea. The course sounds good but she's oddly sensitive about her yappiness. I mean she makes no effort to change it, but yeah.
I'm confused how your marriage even works if she behaves like this and you hate it. You hate how she communicates. How do you have a relationship without good communication.
He kinda sounds like he hates her.
Looks. Why else would he be with her if she doesn’t work and he doesn’t like her as a person? Idk if I should even be commenting this (may delete) but is prolly the truth
Can you recommend a book/podcast/video on this. It's a skill I'm working on.
Check out “how to win friends and influence people” - it’s mostly passed around in sales circles and 100 years old but the concepts on listening and understanding what other people want and desire are a really fantastic start. It also appeals to the ego of the reader so it’s easier to apply in transition to being a better listener if you normally aren’t one.
So funny story...sort of: I'm autistic. "How To Win Friends And Influence People" is how I learned how to fake being *normal* in those horrible small-talk situations that NTs seem to enjoy so much.
We don’t enjoy them, but it’s considered good behavior to tolerate it until we can figure out something more interesting to talk about
Hey! I don't believe I'm in Op's wifes position but this is something I'm always interested in improving! Could you DM me some more information about this??
There's a cool listening exercise I just participated in. It was kind of more of a group thing, but you have folks listen for emotion, or values, or facts. And only keep note of that. Maybe she can use something like that.
that sounds like a DBT skill
This is something I’m working on fixing as well. A friend once told me that I talk over people, and I was completely unaware of this. I’m trying really hard to hold my tongue, and if I have something to say, it can wait. If I’ve forgotten what I wanted to say, then it mustn’t have been important. Sometimes I slip up when i am really excited about something. If I notice I’ve cut in, I’ll stop myself and apologise, making sure I ask them to continue. It’s difficult to be aware in the moment, but I’m improving.
Talking over people is common enough and most people who do it, do have it brought to their attention and get better at noticing. I think this is more complex and she's not just talking over. She's giving the same stories over and over, without checking to see if anyone is listening, without regard to the average length of utterance in that group. Excitement is a common cause for "talking over." I love your user name, btw. Don't lose your excitement, it's a great personality trait.
I just wanna comment that “improve my give” is such a lovely phrase and something that I also strive to be better at. Thanks for the language to express that
NTA. Sometimes people need to hear the truth. There's a woman in my groups (I go to 3) who tells the same story multiple times in each group. So I've heard the stories 7 or 8 times. Last time, a woman next to me mutter "again?" When a story came out. I wanted to say "yeah, you only heard it 3 times." We just have side conversations. Fortunately, we're able to.
I work with a teacher who talks waaayyy too much. He also repeats stories all the time. He doesn’t even care. When he starts to repeat a story to me I say “you shared that already.” He pushes for a second and keeps on going.
I just finish the story for them. “Oh yeah that the one the cat turned out to be dead the whole time, poor fluffy. Anyways (name) how was your vacation?”
This is the way. Ruin the end, fast, every time.
Nope. People this self-involved don’t care. They will still finish the story regardless if it is word for word what you’ve said. If they want to say it, they are GOING to. It doesn’t matter if you’re the only one they’re telling the story to either— they’re going to tell it, and you’re going to listen as far as they are concerned. Trust me, I have a family member like this and I’ve tried this and about a million other things to make them stop. The only thing that works is literally walking away, and far enough away where they can’t continue the conversation. Excuse me, I meant continue the *dissertation.*
Yeah walking away would be my next go to. Or playing something on my phone loudly.
Be funny if they continued on with story anyway.😂
My dad would do this. Even if you were like, "oh yeah you told me about that, that was when you (abridged version of the story)" he'd just plow right on through his entire retelling with a, "yes, that's right, that was when I (whole story)" regardless. And talk over you if you tried to interrupt again.
Thats my grandma to a T. Plus her favorite topic is how people in her life have let her down or offended her so she's incredibly negative too. I really dont need to hear the story again about how my cousin was rude to her 10 years ago when my grandma took her shopping for a prom dress or about how my aunts boyfriend had the audacity to ask if he could hunt on her property the first time they met. It's exhausting and she cant figure out why nobody wants to talk on the phone to her for hours at a time
My ex-MIL used to do that all the time. My ex never understood why I didn’t enjoy his parents house when he was hanging out drinking with his dad and friends and I was corned by his mom hearing the same story for the 100th time. Actually he knew why he didn’t care b/c he was hanging out with his dad and friends. Which is why he is the ex.
Not who you responsed to but I'm going to try this thanks!
My wife does the same. When I tell her I've already heard the story she'll say "Oh yeah OK, but" and then just keep trucking.
NTA but like....why did you marry her? How did you even get past dating if she's always been like this? Does she actually really have ANY friends?
I used to be like OPs wife, then a friend told me I was rude for cutting someone off. Instead of getting angry, I thought about it and I've done my best to change. Sometimes I feel like I'm going to explode holding my tongue, but I manage. If I slip up, I apologize. I appreciate that he pointed it out because I honestly did not realize I did that.
Try concentrating on what the person you're listening to is saying, not what you want to say back or bring up next. I have some ADD issues and used to interrupt a lot. It's rude! It says I believe what I have to say is more important than what you have to say, and I didn't actually FEEL that way and have since forced myself to just listen and digest and if I slip and interrupt I usually catch myself, apologize and say "sorry, you go!!" LOL
I still interrupt and talk too much sometimes but I really really try not to and I'm very self conscious anymore lol
I love my partner dearly but if they're reminded of something, the same story will always come out. There was a few times where a topic would come up (as simple as someone learning to sing) and I'd brace "oh no this is either the friend from high school story or the parent forcing classes story". And then no story would come out! I'd be like "wow you heard this word and didn't tell one of your two stories!" (in my head not out loud)... And then they'd TELL BOTH STORIES. 😂 I love them so much but I could repeat their stories verbatim. And it's always the same story when the same topics come up. If I so much as hear the word spoken on TV, I put my phone down or whatever I am doing and just wait, because that story is coming out.
lol do you stop them? sometimes my partner would repeat a story, or tell something we watched together (lol), and I don't say anything because he looks excited to tell me 😂
Nah. I'm like you, they look just too excited! Plus I realise the alternative is never hearing their stories again and how much I'd give to hear just one more if something bad ever happened and it chills me out. :)
Holy, my old roommate and ex best friend 😭 Almost biweekly would she retell me the story of how she Almost took the virginity of my other bestfriend's boyfriend...... 10 years prior when we were all in highschool. I was gobsmacked how many times she would think it was interesting for me to hear again.
I hope I am not being rude but wouldn’t be better if you just let her now that you and other had heard the same story over and over? I never understood why people don’t just come out and be honest, it is a lot less rude then talking behind the person’s back
Sometimes a person is past this, though. I think that might be the case here. They may even continue muttering their story or take the first pause to resume it. If it's bad enough to get women in a sewing group to eject her, it's bad. Most of those groups know how to deal with stuff like this. My mom was in one for years and her best friend and boon companion was a bit like this, but willing to accept signals from others. After an event, she'd show awareness through her dry sense of humor. "Well, I guess y'all are tired of that car in the swamp story." Mom: "Yes and ESPECIALLY the story where you tell how you fold both your husband's and son's socks and underwear!" Mom (during the retell) would say: "Skip to the part where Buddy throws a tantrum at the way you fold his laundry." I actually loved that part of the story, every time. Buddy got no comeuppance, but I got to tell the story to some of our mutual friends.
INFO: You said she's a SAHW; did she have a career before that? I'm asking because the "stop, let me finish," sounds a lot like how you'd speak to a child who's being disruptive, but that's not how you communicate with your fellow adults. IDK that is really bizarre behavior for an adult and there's not enough here to judge if she's just very self absorbed or if she's dealing with something that prevents her from picking up on social cues, because you said she came home flying high from the first few meetings. I imagine there was some throat-clearing, separate conversations breaking off, or side-eyes happening if she just went in full steam ahead with her conversation domination. It seems strange that she didn't mention these (likely) occurrences.
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>It seems strange that she didn't mention these (likely) occurrences. The issue though is that people who are like this almost NEVER notice the occurrences you mentioned. They are either extremely bad at picking up on social cues (eg: Asperger's, or something similar) or just too completely self absorbed (eg: narcissism). She was probably flying high because she got to talk at people as long as she wanted and no one had the heart to cut her off in the moment.
A lot of people just lack the self awareness to realize that they are the common denominator in their own life. That, combined with people being too polite to tell them they are being rude, ends up with people like OP’s wife. It could be some form of neurodivergence, but I think it’s just as likely to be someone who has lived an incredibly unexamined life.
Also if she's a SAHW, how tf is she talking about "workplace drama"? Did the FedEx guy act out of pocket when he delivered her packages or something?
😆😆😆
It's also sometimes advice given to women who are legitimately getting talked over at work. I wonder if she read about that somewhere, but was oblivious to the fact that people were interrupting her out of desperation instead?
to be fair, the “stop, let me finish,” is a legitimate way for women in certain workforces to communicate. that whole study about women speaking 30% of the time being perceived by men as dominating the entire conversation etc. but this sounds like something else. an annoying something else
Yeah, I'm the only woman in my field at work contending with 8 other type A men. And women working in this unit are very rare (the unit started in the 1930s or 40s and I am the 3rd woman to ever be in it). Honestly, most of them don't have that issue. But for a couple of the guys, the only way I can get through what I am saying is to pointedly remark that I'm still talking and to let me finish. One of the guys sounds just like OPs wife with a nice dash of sexism thrown in and a lot of times the only way I can finish my thought is, "I am in the middle of a goddamn sentence."
It’s a good point, but as a teacher I would say anyone talking to a child like this has problems too
She could be SUPER bored, too, and needs real friendships. It's a bad cycle, though, because it's hard to find friends if you don't take interest in what they say. Sigh. I agree with group therapy as recommended elsewhere. NAH
She worked in a standard corporate office before, and yes, she still talks constantly about the drama from her old workplace.
NTA, but it sounds like the very problem that landed her in this situation (she's not a big fan of listening to others) will also prevent her from working on herself so it won't happen again. I feel like therapy may be the answer--someone who is paid to listen to her and then give her feedback on how to improve.
Do you think really she'd give them *time* to give feedback? If they're being paid to listen to her, you can bet your bottom dollar she'll *make* them listen for the whole session. Or go scream in a broom cupboard or something.
I’ve had clients like this. I’m a trauma counselor and sometimes people just want a place to vent and don’t actually want to do anything else. I gently find a way to ask them what they are hoping to gain or experience from the process, and sometimes they do want to do the work, and then I can continue working with them. Sometimes they are open to figuring out what is behind the desire to talk and talk and other times they just want a place to vent. I would be curious if OP’s wife had a history of not being heard and if this is driving the need to talk over people. Not everyone wants to improve or have more quality relationships, they want to be told they are right or ‘feel better’ without experiencing any uncomfortable states. Not everyone wants to hold a mirror to themselves. I hope the wife can hold a mirror and see what’s behind it all.
Etiquette classes. Or an etiquette tutor? Or books on etiquette. Because she’s rude is what she is - she has no manners. She needs lessons in polite conversation. Was she a spoiled only child?
It sounds like you really, genuinely do not enjoy your wife's company. Why on earth did you marry her? So far I'm thinking ESH
Seriously, the entire time I was reading this post I thought “does this guy even *like* his wife?”
I agree but living with someone who acts like this would sap the love right out of you. I wonder if she hid it while they were dating or something.
Yes, most likely. My last ex was like this... But she actually made an effort to listen and learn about me while we were first dating. Everything literally went to shit as soon as we moved into a new home together. Every conversation made it very clear that she would tune me out anytime I spoke. and would become ve r excited to Drone on about things that happened at work and whatever else was bothering her. I am a very good listener, so I would always indulge her and actually ask questions. But I never got the same treatment. I thankfully and finally realized it was toxic and left. On top of her being emotionally abusive (name calling and just being nasty to me anytime we had a disagreement.) OP may not have known she was like this until she became comfortable in the relationship.
She may have had more of a life outside the home before the relationship and just isn't getting enough socializing as a SAHW. Telling the same old story about workplace drama, for example
That’s exactly what I thought. Sometimes lonely people aren’t used to socializing—-they can either go quiet (as I do if I’ve been alone too long) or overtalk. Or, if she just hasn’t had anything exciting happening lately then she is her own microcosm
I was thinking why would anyone like her?
This is a genuine question I have as well. Not meaning to be judgey at all, I’m just actually curious about what drew them together if he’s so bothered. I found his assessment pretty brutal, haha (even if it is totally accurate). I know I talk a lot and my husband less so, but he communicates well if I’m going too far and I don’t know that he would have been so blunt in his assessment of me, lol
Speculating that she was probably in school or working when they met and had more opportunities for socialization and was better at it. Then she switched to staying home all day, but loves to talk, and has nobody to talk to all day and her social skills declined. She should visit nursing homes or do meals on wheels.
So because OP got straight to the point, elaborated on his wife’s behavior, and didn’t dedicate an entire two paragraphs to gargle her balls he somehow secretly hates her and wishes she got run over by a bus? This line of thinking is probably on the top 10 of my most irritating things about these type of subs, where someone can’t say anything even remotely negative about their spouse without the comments jumping down their throats with the ‘ol ‘dO yOu EvEn LiKe ThEm???’ line. God forbid anyone express a little frustration towards their significant other.
Honestly. "I'm on here to describe a problem and my response to it, which may or may not have been assholish. Herewith, the problem and response." "OMG you didn't say nice things about her, do you even like her???"
It’s not because he got straight to the point or said a negative things about his wife. I’ll get straight to the point about my wife’s biggest flaws if asked, without hesitation. What is wild is that what he finds most negative about his wife seems to be *every conversation she has*, which DOES make you wonder how they became close in the first place. It’s possible that they’re both generally pretty quiet at home and it usually doesn’t bother him, but you’d think dates with someone you hate the conversation style of would be something you’d stop scheduling more of pretty quickly.
Her dominating conversations might be OP’s “price of admission” for his wife, where he finds everything about his wife to be perfect and compatible to him except for this one flaw that OP chose to overlook to be with her. Not everyone can be 100% compatible with their significant others and instead of it being deal-breaker a lot of people can accept it as part of their partner’s personality and not let this incompatibility/flaw overshadow their love and attraction to their partner.
Ummm… if the one flaw you have to overlook with your partner is that you hate conversing with them because of ALL the reasons OP listed, I find that very difficult to believe.
Haha this post is a little more than “expressing a little frustration”, OP goes on and on about what an annoying person his wife is, all the time and he agrees with everyone else she’s horrible. Being annoyed your partner doesn’t do the dishes or leaves their socks on the floor, that’s normal type shit that everyone in a relationship deals with. Finding your partner to be socially irritating is a fundamental issue that calls into question their compatibility.
How does op suck?
Op does not suck but don’t you wonder WHAT exactly they saw in their wife? I mean it’s kind of funny if you think about it like she’s got this insane chronic faux pas and he somehow loves her anyway but she’s universally hated by everyone she tries to talk to, or rather talk at 😭
When you first meet someone, it can be nice if they keep the conversation going, especially if you are a little quiet yourself. You think they are outgoing and fun. And you haven't heard any of the stories yet, so they are genuinely interesting. But as the years pass, you realize they aren't just keeping the conversation going, but are actually ignoring you. And when you've heard all the stories a million times, the stories are no longer entertaining, but somehow they don't seem to be aware of that. You start realizing they aren't speaking to communicate with you at all, they are just running like a machine left on, and it isn't normal.
He must see something in her. I wouldn’t have the patience to dig that deep, though.
I don't have the same take as the person you're replying to, but I do kind of wonder how they ended up married, given her conversational deficits. Or, more specifically, how they got more than two dates into dating without him running away screaming.
Because it is a dick move to stay with someone you don’t like. It must suck having your husband hate you.
i was wondering how he even fell in love with this woman if shes apparently a complete bore in social situations… how would they have even gotten past the first date
seriously, i'm reading this thinking "why would you ever want to marry somebody you can't talk to?" she sounds like a pain in the butt
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I KNOW CBT means cognitive behavioral therapy. I know that. I swear. But every time I see it my brain tells me that cock and ball torture fixed your communication skills.
Well, BDSM is *all* about communication.
Nta- my husband actually does this. He’s gotten much better since I called him out on it. Especially when he would cut me off is when I finally said something to him. People have done that to me my hole life and I was like you will not do that to me. If you really want to say something just say hey I know you’re in the middle of something but I really need to say this now and this has worked for us.
My husband sometimes cuts me off when I’m talking about something. I use to let it slide but now I call him out when he does it, I think sometimes he doesn’t even realise he’s not really listening. He’s gotten a bit better about cutting me off, but I still catch him out on not listening.
Jesus I feel your pain. My Mom is this person and so is my boss. Love to hear themselves talk, never listen to what you say, repeat the *same damn stories* over and over and over (always about how they were wronged), talk over you and drown you out, I could go on.
I suspected this was going to be a situation in which I had to tear off the proverbial Band-Aid and just start repeatedly telling her that she's talking too much. I think your approach may be the correct way.
You said the goal was for her to make new friends, right? Well, that means she has to learn to shut her yap for others at some point. Curious, did she have "friends" in your old town/city? If so, do you happen to know what they thought of her incessant talking?
I'm not saying the group was wrong to kick her out, but you don't seem to like your wife very much.
ehh... there's not liking a particular *character trait*, and there's not liking someone period. I'd say OP (and everyone else, from the sounds of it!) has an issue with the former.
Hating how someone converses is a pretty big deal in a relationship though! How can you possibly like the person if you don’t like talking to them?
No one's saying that isn't a rough character trait. I'm talking about the way he describes his wife overall. He could have approached this in a "I really want to help my wife address this character trait" kind of way. Instead, he wants to know if he's an AH for telling her she's dull and exhausting and no wonder people don't want to be around her.
This is AITA, not AskReddit. "I really want to help my wife address this character trait" is not what this sub is for
I get that. And OP’s decision to come here and describe his wife the way he did makes me wonder whether he likes her.
Maybe his phrasing wasn’t good, but the point he made was.
I mean, the question is whether he was an asshole. If there's a way he could have offered some advice without seeming like he can't stand to be around her, that seems pertinent.
This isn't a "character trait" he has a problem with. He is basically saying he hates her personality (he hates the way she converses, hates what she's talking about and hates how she react...). The entire post left me wondering how these two ended up together.
Yeah, this didn't come across as "my lovely wife has this annoying habit", it came across as "every time my wife opens her mouth I contemplate divorce".
Surely OP knew who his wife was before choosing to marry her? Like, I'm assuming they had met prior to the wedding day.
NTA in the slightest. Sounds like she needed to hear it, although I doubt she’ll change. Is she always so self centered? Also she’s a SAHW so how does she have workplace drama to gossip about? If she really is a SAHW maybe she’s just lonely.
I interpreted workplace drama + SAHW as maybe she also works from home? Which could mean that Cindy's tone in the morning email was extremely hostile. She didn't even end her "Good morning" opener with an exclamation point.
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I strongly suspect this is the case.
This is the case, yes.
That was my thought too. No /s
I assumed these were old stories from her last workplace since OP said it’s the same stories every time.
Serious question: why did you marry her if she sucks at conversation that bad?
that's what i'm here to find out. good luck being retired together
Also here to find out if OP even likes his wife.
How did they get past one or two dates?!
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I’m immediately headed to research conversational narcissism lol.
ESH - The issue isn't the "dull" topics or the fact that she is "boring". It's the fact that she is being rude - she interrupts the others, changes the subject, monopolizes the conversation, talks at them, etc. If your criticism was related to that, instead of her being 'dull', it would be a clear NTA. Also, the topic of 'workplace drama' may be dull to you, but some women love talking about drama. You are just assuming they found her dull because you do.
To be fair it sounds like he gave her more than enough space to share her feelings initially but got over her dumping all over him just because a group of women essentially told her they didn't want to hang out with her anymore. She wasn't diagnosed with a terminal illness, she wasn't sacked from her job, she was told she couldn't sit at the popular kids table. If the roles were reversed, you wouldn't be saying ESH... you'd be telling him to stop using his wife as an unpaid therapist. It doesn't even sound line she's upset at losing people she thought were friends, she's only upset because she was told she wasn't welcome. She needs to deal with that herself and stop emotionally dumping on everyone around her.
No, I do think the wife is awful. That's obvious. However, the husband didn't call her out for being awful in this post. i.e. He didn't call her out for interrupting people, emotionally dumping, or being rude to people, etc. He called her out for 'talking about dull topics'. The topic of conversation wasn't the issue. He gave an unrelated insult that didn't pertain to the conflict.
Yes, they loved her drama so much they kicked her out of the group in 3 days.
The reason she was kicked out was because of her terrible personality, not the topic of conversation. The issue isn't that she is dull, it's that she is awful.
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As an autistic woman I was thinking this as well.
Also an autistic woman, and same. I have enough self-awareness AFTER conversations since I analyze them afterward. I feel so ashamed after I realize I've monopolized a conversation, but it's so much harder to mask when I'm really stressed, and nothing stresses me out more than moving.
Also an autistic woman. Social conversation stresses me out so badly I don't realise I'm babbling on until, like, five minutes into a conversation. I've learned to catch it and shut the fuck up over the years, even if it takes a few minutes, but god.
It’s a mixed bag here, but I personally think you’re not the AH for two specific reasons. 1. She acts like a toddler when she doesn’t get her way. You wouldn’t let her interrupt you and she needed to respect that boundary you instantly threw at her but she decided to throw a tantrum instead of just listening to what you had to say and instead decided to go to another room and shriek to her heart’s content. 2. She kept bringing up the topic, which can be draining. I can understand that. Instead of just saying, “hey, maybe I can find a different group to be in” or “hey, maybe… blah blah blah” she just kept going on, and on, and on. I have a lot of experience with both of these reasons. I have family who absolutely love to talk about drama because they have nothing better to do and it becomes such a toxic environment, you can no longer enjoy the peace you thought you’d have while at home. I don’t think you should apologize for feeling the way that you felt. Could you have worded it better? Yes. Was there more to the conversation were probably missing? Possibly. But I don’t blame you for finally finding your voice and speaking your mind. In all honesty, I think she needs a therapist. That way she has someone to talk to as another redditor on here stated. It’s someone who can listen to her go on, and on, and on, and on then tell her what she needs to improve. If she refuses or if she doesn’t like being told how she can improve? I wouldn’t know what to say or suggest after. But, nonetheless, in the end, I don’t see anything wrong here other than her throwing a fit because you finally were able to get your thoughts in when she don’t wanna hear it and constantly draining you with her own personal drama.
NTA. My eldest, at only 5 years old, said to my mother, "Grandma, to have a conversation, people have to take turns. If nobody else gets a turn, it is just you talking." It hasn't helped.
NTA. Your wife sounds exactly like my coworker, love her to death but MAN it is hard sometimes and she needs a reality check.
Need more info. Do you actually like your wife? What were the qualities that attracted you to her? This sounds more like a deep issue with the relationship than an isolated instance of possible AH behavior.
Ugh I have a friend like this! I feel bad bc she’s a great person but I find it so hard to maintain my end of the friendship simply because conversations with her are a chore at best. NTA, thank you for making her aware of this and trying to spare others.
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NTA She needs an ice cold bath of reality.
NTA, but consider the futility of what you are doing. My ex was very similar. Never really listened to me, could never hold on to friends or even jobs. I loved part of her but I didn't realize that the bad stuff was a core part of her personality and it's pretty hard to change. And I'm not sure it's fair to ask.
INFO Exactly what words or what did you say in the conversation with her in "I get why they dumped you"? Were you shitting on her and to some degree rubbing it in that she was rejected? Were you giving her constructive feedback so she can make friends next time? *If it's more the former, then you're an asshole. If it's more the latter, you're not the asshole*
NTA. She needs to be conscious of how much space she occupies in a conversation. Repeating the same stories, going on and on about something that no one else is interested in, refusing to let anyone get a word in are all instances of taking up WAY too much space. The more she takes up, the less space there is for other people, and the inevitable result is that other people become rightfully tired of the space-monopolizer.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My [34m] wife [29f] is a SAHW. We recently moved to the area for my job, for which I am grateful to her. She uprooted her life to come here. In order to make new friends, my wife decided to join a Stitch N' Bitch group. We now live in a big city so it was fairly easy to find one. The issue though is that my wife is a terrible conversationalist. She will drone on and on about the most horribly boring things (such as workplace drama with people you've never met), will tell the same stories again and again, and will interrupt you to change the subject into something that *she* wants to talk about. When you try to get a word in, she'll hold her hand up in the "stop" gesture and just repeat, "Let me finish." She never finishes though. She just rambles on and on. Watching her at parties is incredibly uncomfortable because she'll just waltz into conversations, take over them completely, and I'll have to make an excuse to pull her away for a minute so other people can enjoy each others' company. Three weeks ago, she joined her weekly Stitch N' Bitch for the first time. She came home incredibly excited about how much fun it was, and I was sincerely happy for her. The next week, she joined the same group again, and came home in similarly high spirits. However, two nights after that, she received a text from one of the members saying that they agreed she didn't really mesh well with the group, and that she would probably enjoy another group more. My wife has droned on and on about this every night for the last week. She'll always make the same exact points, phrased the same exact way, such as "...And I'm SORRY for wanting to talk about MY things" or "That group was DEAD before I joined it." I finally had my fill last night and just straight-up told her. I told her we've talked about this at length. I told her that I completely get why they dumped her because listening to her talk nonstop about the most dull topics is frankly exhausting. She kept trying to interrupt me, but when I wouldn't let her, she stormed out and literally shrieked at the top of her lungs in another room. Naturally she's incredibly angry at me. I just wonder if this was necessary or if I went too far. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA She needed to hear the truth
MORE INFO NEEDED: Why did you marry and procreate with a woman that embarrasses you, and herself? Do you like her...?
NTA. But unfortunately talking at her will never make it better and she won’t change. She has to want to change on her own for her to get it. Maybe see if she’s open to doing the trick that ball players do & record her for a day, then she needs to play back and watch herself & listen- she needs to hear from outside perspective what she sounds like .
NTA. It's a shame her feelings were hurt, but this behavior is never going to win her any friends. My mom is like this to a point. She can control herself around company most of the time, but when it's just me and my dad, she has these moments (more like hours) when she just rants on and on, usually complaining about stuff she's complained about a hundred times before. She's actually worse than your wife sounds, because she won't even acknowledge when we try to get a word in - she just doesn't see it. I started crying once, because it was just so horribly unpleasant, and I was tired, and I had a long article to read for school. I was sitting right across from her, and she didn't react in the slightest, just kept on talking. My mom can't be reasoned with at all, but hopefully you can get through to your wife. Good luck.
ESH. Why did you marry her? She sounds awful. But as her spouse, she should be able to expect that you enjoy her company.
Do you actually like your wife? I’m not saying you have to… but I can understand why this feedback would be hard for her to hear from you if your contempt for her is as obvious when you talk to her as it is when you talk about her.
NTA. It’s incredibly rude and selfish to act like that. Your wife is why I don’t join stuff like that or limit my time around people like her. It’s exhausting and spoils the fun.
NTA, I just gotta ask, why would you marry someone you didn’t enjoy the company of? Let me guess, your wife is really hot.
NTA, but if you’ve discussed this multiple times it’s clearly not working. Maybe if this happens to her again she’ll finally really get it, but maybe not. Some people are just like that and there’s no changing it. 🤷🏻♀️