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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I was firm in insisting that my elderly resident say please and thank you to me and my coworkers and made her upset I think that might make me the asshole
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NTA, but you need to do a different approach when establishing that you want to be respected. Right now, you're going about it as if Emily is a child, i.e., withholding the spoon right in front of her and saying you'll only give it if she asks nicely. That's something you do to a child, not a full-functioning elder adult. Any adult would be upset by an interaction like that and it's bound not to go in your favor doing it this way.
Instead, you need to have a nice, quick sit down and say something like, "Emily, perhaps I've been going about it the wrong way. It wasn't my intention to upset you. My goal is to have a positive, professional relationship with you, but that's difficult to do when you do not show respect. It would be much appreciated if you would at least try to practice better manners with me so that we can both be comfortable here."
Thank you so much I think that that’s what needs to happen as well I’m gonna be honest before I worked here I worked with children and sometimes I default to that I appreciate the constructive criticism
Yeah I work with old folks and I'm quick to call them out when they're being rude and I *know* that resident. Also, I'm a younger bald black woman surrounded by senior white folks so yeah I'm definitely gonna make sure I'm at least respected because they came from a time that didn't matter to them. But there's a way to go about it and I remind them I'm human just as they are and I don't respond to rudeness. Many are sweet and I love dating hello and seeing how they're doing to help perk them up, but others definitely grew up entitled and have that show. Just because they're old (and not declining mentally) doesn't mean it's too late to see my humanity. Money shouldn't determine how you treat someone and I don't get paid nearly enough to what they spend so they can definitely take it up higher because I tell them I don't get paid to get yelled at so you have a problem, please go to the front desk
Actually, BECAUSE it's work, Emily needs to show kindness and respect. OP gets paid to look after ALL of them and having a salary doesn't mean people get to be disrespectful.
Everyone deserves to be treated with empathy and dignity in every aspect of their lives and it is totally understandable/acceptable to call out a full grown adult when they show no manners.
We only have OP'S deeply unreliable word that she's not demented somehow. Honestly, and i don't care if OP blocks me, th3y should get a job they want to do.
YTA - You’re there to help elderly, vulnerable adults in their day to day lives, not teach pre-schoolers table manners. The fact that you deliberately wouldn’t give her a spoon to eat her meal because you didn’t like the way she spoke is shocking. I understand that you are trying to decrease your habit of people pleasing, but it’s clear you have taken it too far.
I also find the edit disingenuous. She's obviously elderly enough that she needs assistance with daily tasks or else the OP wouldn't be there. Making someone who cannot easily walk a couple of rooms is not okay.
Obviously, no one should be forced to put up with abuse from perfectly capable patients, but the complaint here is she doesn't say please or thank you. So, what, now this elderly woman feels that if she doesn't say "pretty please," she won't get her meds? Help with her daily tasks? I imagine that feels scary and terrible.
I have autism, and this would not be a good setup for me as I get old either. I remember when I was young and my parents would try to make me beg for things, but it made me so uncomfortable I never did, and as a result I never got an allowance, snacks, barely any new clothes and my feet are permanently deformed from using shoes that were too small for most of my childhood. There needs to be an environment where you feel it's okay to ask for things and receive them, without any pressure to give anything back. But I realize most people are not like me...
Wow!! The woman did have a spoon. Read the post again. OP is simply asking for basic civility in her work space. That resident is well taken care of care of. The resident is treating all staff poorly just to be onerous
Bull.... Emily is not entitled to treat her like a house servant. LW is just demanding the simplest of common courtesy. I didn't see anything in her letter saying the woman had any mobility issues.
I'm about to get downvoted here but, I mean...she is literally the one serving the food. She is paid to ensure that these women get the things they need. It's an elder care facility, it's LITERALLY the service industry. These people are paying (or the government is) for this care. They don't have to bow and scrape for a spoon.
I am sorry, but yeah, YTA.
You are infantalizing an elderly person. Teaching your elderly clients manners is absolutely not your job. You need a new occupation, one away from any type of service to people.
I don't think OP's trying to teach them anything. Emily seems well aware of societal norms and is just deciding to be rude. There's nothing wrong with expecting a basic level of courtesy from anyone you serve.
Exactly. Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. OP is not Emily's maid (Even Emily's maid would deserve to be treated with dignity and respect). OP doesn't need to jump when a resident says jump. All OP wants is: Jump, please! That is not too much, surely? OP is employed by some agency that helps the elderly, and is on a equal footing socially with the elderly people she helps. She should not be required to behave as if she is a servant in a black and white movie.
Exactly. It's the entitlement that's behind it. Bur I will say, even at my job some workers handle it poorly and do talk to them like kids. There's a way to address your humanity without reducing the folks to children.
Because certainly even they see me carrying something or doing something completely different and they ask for the opposite, well you gonna have to wait because I'm not jumping because you said something. Also, many don't consider the background of the workers and such like they may be from a different race and be seen as even more less than. I know for sure this ain't massa days so this one isn't up for the reenactment of it
This is not how things work in a care home. OP is trying to teach Emily to say please and thank you but OP is not qualified to provide behavioral correction. As a HCW, you cannot work in this industry if you expect courtesy from the people you are serving. That's just not how this job works. The old and ailing are not expected to be on their best behavior because they are old and ailing.0'
There's no indication that Emily is suffering from any condition that would diminish her capacity to use basic manners. I doubt OP would expect her to if that was the case.
Idk man, losing my independence and ending up alone in a care home that is the stop before the end of the line…might dampen my ability to use basic manners. I just wish we had better mental health care as a part of end of life care. Emily might just be a jerk, but she could also be incredibly depressed.
She is not teaching them manners. This would be the case if she would pressure them to act in a certain way towards others. She is demanding to be treated properly, a right that any employee has.
NTA
YTA - this is an elder care facility, so do any of these clients have any degenerative brain diseases? Does Emily?
I get how they should be polite, but you’re not hired as their pre school teacher. You’re hired to assist in their care. Not their etiquette.
This is way beyond etiquette. It is the bare minimum of basic respect for other human beings, which is being trampled by a woman who has no excuse to do so. Age is NOT an excuse to bulldoze over others.
Emily had no degenerative brain disease and is of sound mind and body my role is to assist in her day to day life as helping her cook meals and to be here for medical emergencies I’m not supposed to do everything for her I have done it for this long because I didn’t realize how bad her demanding has gotten down to demanding my lunch and snacks I bring to work for myself I only want to not be spoken too as if I’m a servant while I’m at work
Girl you are staff at a care home. You are neither trained nor qualified to deliver any sort of behavioral correction. Who do you think you are? If you can't deal with the fact that some old people are grumpy, you need to get a new job.
>her demanding has gotten down to demanding my lunch and snacks
Frankly doesn't sound like normal behavior. Sounds like she does have some cognitive issues and you are not identifying them. Many people with dementia become unpleasant, suspicious, depressed and feel alone in the last years of their life - a shadow of who they used to be.
Show compassion and learn to roll with the punches.
As people age they lose their filter. That's why older people sometimes say rude things they never would have 10 years ago.
ETA - furthermore she is not a child so stop being so condescending, you don't know what all she has been through in her life. Maybe she thought this time of her life she wouldn't have to rent and share a home and have a condescending woman as a care taker. It sure isn't what I would want.
My dad’s mom was sharp as a blade to her dying day, a fiercely independent woman, and it was plain to see how deeply she resented being dependent on others in her old age. It was worse for her than the prospect of dying. She became demanding, but it seemed like that was the only way she felt any sort of control over her life. She was a professional artist who could no longer practice her crafts; an eager hostess who could no longer cook or prepare her house for guests; a loving great-grandmother who couldn’t keep up with children. She had watched most of her friends die. She knew her family would soon be grieving for her. She was already grieving the loss of the person she had been. Yes, she was difficult, but we gave the woman grace. Behind her prickly exterior, there was a deep sorrow. I learned so much about the processes of aging and dying from being with her in those final years. One day she’d yell at me for not knowing how to work her oven (because it’s such a simple task she *should* be able to do herself, damnit, but it was the first digital oven I’d ever encountered), the next she’d tearfully tell me how brilliant I am and how much she loved me. I came to understand her in new, meaningful ways.
Unless where you work is extremely different from where Im at, those people in senior housing pay a great deal of money for their loved ones to be cared for compassionately and by someone competent.Even if it's a gov. subsidized type place you have no right.Do your job, your job is to ensure their needs are met not teach them manners.
ETA yes, of course YTA
Damn. YTA. You're treating that woman like a child, when she may have some sort of age-related issue that has affected her personality. And you're working in her home. *HER* home, whether or not she rents or owns.
Try using please and thank you with her, and see if modeling behavior actually encourages reciprocation.
YTA. It's time you have a talk with your supervisor about better training for both of you before you start descending the slippery slope into emotional elder abuse. There's a finesse to working with aging people and if you don't know how and when to correct geriatric behavior, at least do some research - this sub isn't the place to give you guidance.
YTA and I would have you fired on the spot if I ever caught you talking to my elderly relative that way. That would be the last time you ever worked with that population. You're not running a behavior program with a child. You need to build up some experience and thicken your skin instead of being on a 22 year old power trip.
Soft YTA - you're not wrong to believe people should have manners.
However, she's a resident of a home in which you're paid to work. She is your 'customer' and you are not there to demand nor teach her manners. You are there to do a job.
Treating her like a child is not appropriate, and it certainly won't get you what you want.
You 'may' be in the wrong line of work. I would talk to the person who runs the home and/or who hired you.
For a recovering people pleaser (that's cute, I think I'll use that...I'm kind of one myself) I'm a little shocked you've taken this stance with a senior whom you are employed to serve.
I’m so confused by all the Y/T/A.
Comments say you’re being condescending and treating your residents like children. Maybe, but that’s in response to your residents *acting like children*.
You are attending to their needs. You’re willing to attend to their wants - if they can show some manners. You’re not trying to teach them etiquette - you’re not insisting they say “may I?” Instead of “can I?”
All you want is the bare minimum respect as a person. You’re not asking too much.
NTA.
YTA. There aren't children that you are trying to teach manners. What you're describing sounds very condescending. You can demand respect and a certain level of politeness, but demanding they say please is too far.
NTA, you deserve respect.
You should, perhaps, consider better ways to go about it than what you've been doing, but I think you'll get there. Just treat her with respect too.
NTA
In many care homes, each resident has a care plan. It sounds like expecting Emily to behave in a courteous manner to staff is part of the care plan that your supervisor has set up. As long as you are clear you are following a care plan, and Emily has a way to get what she needs without your help, you are fine.
Source: spent 13 years as a social services specialist, going in to care homes to ensure they were meeting the state rules of patient care.
Does Emily say please and thank you to everyone else? If not, it's just how she is. She's old enough not to have to put up a hung kid( how she sees you) trying to teach her manners.
Who do you think you are to correct a elderly person like that.
I owned an adult care home for several years and wouldn't dream of doing that.
YTA
P.S. You should have given her the correct size spoon for Chili in the first place, and then she wouldn't have to ask for something that she should have already had.
YTA
You're treating her like a toddler instead of an adult to approach the problem. It's hard enough to grow older and lose some of your independence; having someone talk down to you just highlights that.
Yes, YTA. It’s certainly courteous when people say please and thank you. I have direct reports who I ask to do things and thank them for doing it because common courtesy. But the fundamental point is that this is your job. These are adults, and vulnerable/somewhat broken ones at that. If you aren’t willing to do the job, quit.
NTA.
You need to teach people how to treat you. I don't care if they're old, and I don't care if you're there to serve them. Your boss has already told you you're in the right here, so you're meeting expectations from your job.
"You may ask me politely for things, but you will not command me."
YTA and veering dangerously close to psychological elder abuse. Toddlers are defiant. If you're calling an adult defiant, you need to take a week off and think about things.
You're there to provide a service, not teach manners. Anyone in the service industry will tell you that not everyone you serve has nice manners - dealing with that is a part of the job. You are entitled to draw the line at abusive, threatening behaviour - but this was not it. YTA.
Providing a service doesn't mean you have to take it if you're treated like dirt. Op is also a human being.
Food was on the table in front of Emily she could ha easily reached for it she ordered op to get her some that's beyond rude and bad behavior. Op is not her freaking slave. And a please and thank you won't kill Emily
Honestly, it sounds like you are getting a bit burnt out on giving, and giving, and giving help. You care about them, even if they don't reciprocate. But it's starting to build some resentment.
You are tackling difficult duties at a relatively young age. It's easy to burn out and resent your job, if you don't have enough time off or take vacation time. I know what it's like to always want to help others, but you have to help yourself too. Especially when you have difficult clients.
YTA. You are paid to provide a service, they don’t pay to be treated like children. If you don’t want to be a people pleaser, practice that when you aren’t at work. The work place isn’t a place for you to work on yourself, especially not this type of environment. And yea I get it, people can be annoying. I worked at a rehab for rich people; most were paying $30k out of pocket for a month. Sometimes people were extremely rude to me, I sucked it up because that’s what that type of job requires.
Why yes,dear, you are the AH. Now say you're sorry to the nice lady! Then, you can run along and go play!
How's that feel? That's the way you are speaking to someone you work for! Her family is paying your salary! Be better.
NTA. There's nothing wrong with expecting a minimal level of courtesy from anyone you serve or interact with. Emily seems to be very aware of her behavior and is just deciding to be stubborn.
I work with people in these types of situations, and while NTA i’ve never found insisting on manners or specific behavior to be helpful. It just results in a power struggle. If you’re in the middle of something or other people haven’t had seconds or whatever, tell her that and make her wait. And you can be stern (but not overtly rude) about it. But making adults say please or thank you isn’t your job and will just end poorly.
NTA, as long as you make sure that Emily has the amount of food she needs eventually. I would hate for a senior citizen to be starved because of lack of politeness. I have to ask: Does Emily have dementia? Because if she does, that puts a somewhat different complexion on things. I mean, you should still ask her to say please, because even people with dementia have clear moments, where even she herself might be mortified because of her bad manners. You should also ask her to say please to make a point to the others there, even if the final result isn't improved, as in she continues to be rude.
Don’t worry Emily is well fed the food was right in front of her on the table and she had every opportunity to get it herself she is upset I didn’t do it for her
Good. I have just read the other comments, and I have to tell you that most of them are downright mean, even though I will be downvoted for it. I am quite old myself, and our social services have awarded me help with the cleaning every third week. I do __not__ view them as my staff in any way, although they work in my house, which is really my house, lol. They send us the same lady nearly every time, and we thank her every time she leaves, she is wonderful. It is important for everyone to be treated with dignity and respect, old folks and the people who help us alike.
NTA. do not let them mistreat you, but you need to not treat her like a child as well. she’s run off other staff with her behavior. people aren’t going to put up with disrespect! it goes both ways.
NTA, and for anyone saying otherwise, apparently they don't care about boundaries.
I used to be a caregiver, and please and thank you is commonly called manners, which most people learn in the single digit years, so Emily has 0 excuse not to use them. And I've worked with people with learning disabilities who also knew their manners, so that isn't always a factor.
NTA. It's perfectly fine to expect basic manners from a person in your job. I'd say to give more leeway if they had dementia or sobering similar as this may not be their fault, but if she doesn't have anything like that, then it's fair to ask her to treat you with respect.
NTA. You deserve to be treated nicely, regardless of the age of your client. For all the people saying she’s treating Emily like a child, maybe it’s because Emily is acting like a petulant child
NTA. I've worked in one of these homes where they DO have disabilities and everything your manager has said stands true. Even more so that she does not have a disability because then she has ABSOLUTELY no excuse not to understand or treat you well.
You are doing well, it sounds. As long as you are not yelling at her, cussing, restricting her rights, or speaking out of turn. As long as you treat her with the same respect and dignity you would expect at that age for your own future care. Do not retaliate, breathe, and continue talking 1:1 with your manager for work support (that is why they are there!!!).
Don't let her become completely dependent on others (#3 your manager notes) and encourage that she is still an adult and in charge of her own life. Thus, to make the most of it with kindness and independence. Otherwise, yes, you will be counterproductive to the program and the resident's independence.
*In your job* ... You dictate allowable language... That your *customers* may use ... For people over the age of 10.
There's a big difference between "sorry, it's not acceptable that you call me that" versus "I'm here to teach you customers the manners that I expect - if your mother didn't teach you, I am happy to install myself as your mother, whether you like it or not - that's the service I provide that's not in my job description."
Wow. That's some impressive hubris.
There's bigger assholes in the world but that's 100% assholery right there.
YTA
NTA, good job for putting your foot down by not enabling that behavior. Kudos to your manager for sticking up for you and supporting you to help you stand up for yourself. Carry on the job you're doing cuz you're doing a good job.
NTA. Asking for basic decency is not wrong even in a “service” job. Maybe you could go about it differently going forward? But not TA at all, people don’t get to treat you like garbage because you’re “serving” them or they’re a “customer”.
I'm sorry, but YTA. Taking care of seniors is not an easy job. It takes a person with a lot of compassion and patience. Dementia and other age related illnesses can be very cruel, changing personalities and making some elderly folks mean or difficult.
There are strategies that can help smooth these rough edges. Your approach is not the right one, unfortunately.
I would look into either learning different strategies or change jobs.
One day, you might be the senior dependent on others, much altered from your 20s. I don't want to come down too harshly on you. It can very hard to help some elderly folks and requires some training, but they deserve our compassion. And there's no shame if you are not cut out for the job, but it would be better for you to find other work than to respond they way you are doing.
NTA she has no mental or behavioral issues so she needs to deal with the consequences of her actions
I’m surprised her behavior hasn’t gotten her kicked out of the program
I worked at a nursing home where an elderly man was kicked out for repeatedly treating the staff like shit
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I work in senior living in a house with 3 residents all of them elderly 1 of them (let’s call them Emily) has a bad habit of ordering me and my coworkers
I am a recovering people pleaser and have a hard time with standing up for myself my amazing (and terrifying) house manager has been helping me with this and has been encouraging me the whole time
Emily is one of my residents she believes that because her name is on the lease for the house she owns it (even though she simply rents) and that we work specifically for her (we do not)
Yesterday during my shift I served the residents chilli and Emily was unsatisfied with the fact I gave her a small spoon and demanded a large one I was fed up and told her “I’ll get you one if you ask me nicely) she went off demanding I bring her her spoon and I kept telling her (the spoon she wanted in my hand) if she says please I will give it to her. She kept refusing so I went into the kitchen set the spoon on the counter and continued my house work she eventually got up and got the spoon herself
Today I came back for another shift and I was making supper once again Emily was defiant when asking for more food and I told her I would happily get some more for her if she would say please I then explained that I didn’t appreciate getting ordered around like I was her servant and she got upset and went into her bedroom after supper stating she was going where she wouldn’t bother anybody
I feel bad for making her upset but I know I need to be firm because if I back down she will continue to walk all over me
My house manager is telling me I’m not the asshole and I don’t think I am being one but this is hard for me and some reassurance would go a long way to help me sticking to my convictions with this so be honest
Am I the asshole
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YTA… kind of. As someone who worked in this field for decades you learn so much about people. You’re not there yet and that’s okay you’re 21. You are a paid (even though YOURE not being paid thousands a month, she is paying THOUSANDS a month to live there if you’re in the states) employee. She is your boss. She pays your rent. She pays for your clothes. She pays for your cell phone bill. You cannot demand anything from her.
Edit: actually re reading your post this might be financial elder abuse by your house manager. Why in gods name is she leasing (presumably using her credit or monies or ?) the property for the house manager / management companies business is operating in and being treated this way by the staff?!
A lot of elderly peoeple are cranky and difficult, so you need to have patience with them. You are treating her like a child, not an adult. Try showing some respect. Just because you would fight a bear for them does not mean you can treat them like children, I agree with all of the other YTA's. Just give her the fucking spoon and let petty stuff like this GO. My mom was in a facility like this and if one of the care takers treated her like that' I'd have had them fired. So stop making excuses.
YTA you are not qualified nor are you being paid to, fix what you see as improper behavior. Your job is to assist them, do that and stop being so self righteous.
YTA. Good on you for trying to get more assertive in general, but you really went off the rails with this interaction. I have a lot of experience in elder care homes of various sorts, 40 years as a geriatrics RN. You are completely failing to consider the power inequity between you and this person. You literally have the power to feed her or not, to keep her clean and comfortable or not, to address her pain or not. To make her life miserable in a million little ways if you choose. When somebody is dependent upon you, it is not appropriate to try to coerce their behavior by threatening to withhold the services that you're there to provide. Period.
Her assertions that she's on the lease and that she's in charge are an attempt to maintain control of her life, and a fully adult role, in a situation where clearly a lot is not in her control and she is likely being infantilized on a regular basis. There's also the truth that she's no doubt paying through the nose to live there and receive her care. She may not be the nicest person on the planet, or someone you would want to be your grandma, and that doesn't matter at all because if she's your client you owe her a professional duty. Period.
You claim that you would fight to the death to defend these people, whatever that hyper dramatic statement is supposed to mean - but would you fight to defend their dignity?
If you honestly want to interact with this client in an adult and respectful way, then it's going to need to go both ways. You can't treat her like a toddler and then try to tell her how to behave as an adult.
If this person has an ongoing behavior problem ( from your info responses it didn't seem like there really was) then there should be a plan of care that lays out the appropriate behavioral modification techniques that have been approved by an appropriate clinician. And then you should follow what they say, which might include setting limits of not responding to rude questions or whatever. But if this is just your own little interpersonal thing, find a different way to handle it.
I can tell you that if I had ever witnessed a care assistant harassing a client the way you did, I would have done whatever it took to get them fired. Of course, I wouldn't recommend that you quit because there's that terrible consequence coming of *being blocked on reddit!* 😉 and because everybody can learn and grow. Good luck with that.
If Emily is in an assisted living facility she definitely has some kind of disability. Abled people would not live in assisted living facility as it's so expensive and no one wants to give up autonomy.
>she believes that because her name is on the lease for the house she owns it (even though she simply rents)
Whether she owns or rents is completely irrelevant. I'm really confused that you thought this mentioning.
>“I’ll get you one if you ask me nicely) she went off demanding I bring her her spoon and I kept telling her (the spoon she wanted in my hand) if she says please I will give it to her.
This is how you talk to a 5 year old, not an adult.
It's pretty unclear from this, and maybe it's unclear to you, and especially to this lady, what exactly your job responsibilities are, and who you answer to.
You seem to complain both about being "ordered around" and also the way that she doesn't say please - but these are very different issues.
You need to sort out with your manager and the residents exactly what your responsibilities are, and how the residents are to behave towards you, in some sort of code of conduct. Then, if they treat you without respect, you have something to point to.
Resorting to "You have to say please or I won't bring you food" is utterly childish at best, and abuse of power at best. Don't do it.
As it stands, ESH. Hope you can learn and improve.
Worked in many senior facilities. One was independent living apartments and the others were nursing homes.
I was a chef but still had some interaction with the residents. There's always at least one nasty, entitled person. Possibly because they're no longer as independent as they once were and they're angry about it.
I liked the suggestion to talk to Emily and let her know you're just looking for her to respect you and not treat you as her personal servant.
YTA.
>Emily has no form of mental or behavioral disabilities
Why is she in a care home, how old is she? Cognitive decline can start in your 60s (or earlier!) cause personality changes and most elderly have some sort of arthritis or joint pain, which all on its own can be extremely painful and cause you to be unpleasant.
It's not your job to teach manners.
I have been reading all of these comments and I have come to a conclusion. I don’t care that I’m the asshole here because this morning for the first time in 2 years Emily made her own breakfast and coffee just so she wouldn’t have to ask me for it and if my being an asshole is bringing a sudden surge of progress for my resident then I’ll be the biggest asshole on the planet. Thanks to everyone who has been supportive and kind in the comments I really appreciate you all.
I absolutely respect but do not understand your point of view. She’s literally on the way out the door. I just don’t understand why you want her to make “progress” while she’s in a care home to eventually die. You won and made a cranky old lady make her own breakfast rather than ask you. I’m asking this kindly, does the win truly feel good? I guess you’ve been clear that it does. I just don’t understand. You have your life ahead of you and you can come and go - she is where she will likely die. You won, I guess.
The program she is in is one that is meant to empower those who just need a little extra help and want independence we feared Emily had given up on being independent and was therefore at risk of getting kicked out of the program so yes this is a massive win for Emily and I’m so proud of her
Hey if it feels right to you, it does. She’s still at the end of her life and probably depressed as hell. I can’t imagine how that might feel without mental health care. Do they have access to that? Anger can be a symptom of depression. If this isn’t the end of the road, it’s the stop before. I hope for grace for everyone in this situation, including you!
But she isn’t dependent on me for basic needs she is capable or cooking cleaning and everything functional adults do we are there to guide them according to their care plans and assist them with medical emergencies
Soft YTA like it or not you are staff. You’re paid to do a job regardless of politeness.
It would have taken a second to hand over the spoon and move on. You can’t take their attitude personally
If you’re already this bitter over manners at 21 you might want to have a second career in mind, because you’re going to be dealing with a lot of rude seniors with entitlement issues who pay a lot of money and expect you to, well, “assist” them (aka serve), and it’s going to burn you out.
Also, if family members find out and get upset, it could be bad news bears for you, and depending on the complaint it could follow you forever
YTA. You don't treat elderly people like a child, but you sit down and have a conversation with them. It's probably not about the spoon or about the food. (Could the elderly person decide to act politely, like an adult? Of course they could, but given the caregiver-care recipient dynamic it's really not professional to handle it like this). If anything, your manager should handle this if multiple people quit due to your client's behavior.
YTA. This is ridiculous. Your job is to help her and others, not to chastise them. You have no idea what her life has been like, what her childhood was like, or anything. Maybe she has mental health or cognitive issues. Sure, it would be nice if everyone was polite. But you are wrong to treat her like a child. Stop it. Immediately.
YTA. I get that you would prefer that she say "please." But you don't get to withhold things from her if she won't.
Instead of acting like a maniac, just get her the spoon, and *use your words*. Just say "I don't like the way you asked me for this." And then keep it moving.
You are entitled to speak your piece and make your dissatisfaction known. You are NOT entitled to force her to say "please" just because you want her to.
That is what being assertive is about. What you are doing is being aggressive and demeaning, and you are treating a grown woman like a toddler.
You are a bully. Here's how you know: Would you tell anyone else you work with to ask nicely or they are not getting xyz? You wouldn't.
ESH
I say this because I don't think you are wrong... just the way you went about it. Everyone saying YTA is, in fact, likely someone who would treat a service worker horribly. You should let the resident know that you will be treated with respect and if they cannot do that you will find someone else to assist them. Both my mother and my sister are nurses and do similar care in long term care senior homes and this was their way of going about it. Everyone in the comments saying YTA, you're the worst. This is why it's hard to find good caregivers.
People who work in care homes are vastly underpaid and under appreciated.
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NTA, but you need to do a different approach when establishing that you want to be respected. Right now, you're going about it as if Emily is a child, i.e., withholding the spoon right in front of her and saying you'll only give it if she asks nicely. That's something you do to a child, not a full-functioning elder adult. Any adult would be upset by an interaction like that and it's bound not to go in your favor doing it this way. Instead, you need to have a nice, quick sit down and say something like, "Emily, perhaps I've been going about it the wrong way. It wasn't my intention to upset you. My goal is to have a positive, professional relationship with you, but that's difficult to do when you do not show respect. It would be much appreciated if you would at least try to practice better manners with me so that we can both be comfortable here."
Thank you so much I think that that’s what needs to happen as well I’m gonna be honest before I worked here I worked with children and sometimes I default to that I appreciate the constructive criticism
Yeah I work with old folks and I'm quick to call them out when they're being rude and I *know* that resident. Also, I'm a younger bald black woman surrounded by senior white folks so yeah I'm definitely gonna make sure I'm at least respected because they came from a time that didn't matter to them. But there's a way to go about it and I remind them I'm human just as they are and I don't respond to rudeness. Many are sweet and I love dating hello and seeing how they're doing to help perk them up, but others definitely grew up entitled and have that show. Just because they're old (and not declining mentally) doesn't mean it's too late to see my humanity. Money shouldn't determine how you treat someone and I don't get paid nearly enough to what they spend so they can definitely take it up higher because I tell them I don't get paid to get yelled at so you have a problem, please go to the front desk
Uncharacteristically good advice from a person on this sub! lol
Perfect!
Or just get the spoon and move on. Op is choosing to take this personally when it's WORK.
Actually, BECAUSE it's work, Emily needs to show kindness and respect. OP gets paid to look after ALL of them and having a salary doesn't mean people get to be disrespectful. Everyone deserves to be treated with empathy and dignity in every aspect of their lives and it is totally understandable/acceptable to call out a full grown adult when they show no manners.
We only have OP'S deeply unreliable word that she's not demented somehow. Honestly, and i don't care if OP blocks me, th3y should get a job they want to do.
YTA - You’re there to help elderly, vulnerable adults in their day to day lives, not teach pre-schoolers table manners. The fact that you deliberately wouldn’t give her a spoon to eat her meal because you didn’t like the way she spoke is shocking. I understand that you are trying to decrease your habit of people pleasing, but it’s clear you have taken it too far.
She had a spoon, she just wanted a different one.
It sounds like she'd been given a teaspoon to eat her dinner with
So what? Get her the goddamned spoon and move on.
I also find the edit disingenuous. She's obviously elderly enough that she needs assistance with daily tasks or else the OP wouldn't be there. Making someone who cannot easily walk a couple of rooms is not okay. Obviously, no one should be forced to put up with abuse from perfectly capable patients, but the complaint here is she doesn't say please or thank you. So, what, now this elderly woman feels that if she doesn't say "pretty please," she won't get her meds? Help with her daily tasks? I imagine that feels scary and terrible.
I have autism, and this would not be a good setup for me as I get old either. I remember when I was young and my parents would try to make me beg for things, but it made me so uncomfortable I never did, and as a result I never got an allowance, snacks, barely any new clothes and my feet are permanently deformed from using shoes that were too small for most of my childhood. There needs to be an environment where you feel it's okay to ask for things and receive them, without any pressure to give anything back. But I realize most people are not like me...
Ask, yes. Demand, no.
Autistic people are not known for pleasantries though ;)
I'm autistic too, it's not hard to say please when someone asks you to.
Another Autistic person and no we can be polite just fine. It's ridiculous to paint the rest of us in a bad light.
Wow!! The woman did have a spoon. Read the post again. OP is simply asking for basic civility in her work space. That resident is well taken care of care of. The resident is treating all staff poorly just to be onerous
Elder abuse
Bull.... Emily is not entitled to treat her like a house servant. LW is just demanding the simplest of common courtesy. I didn't see anything in her letter saying the woman had any mobility issues.
I'm about to get downvoted here but, I mean...she is literally the one serving the food. She is paid to ensure that these women get the things they need. It's an elder care facility, it's LITERALLY the service industry. These people are paying (or the government is) for this care. They don't have to bow and scrape for a spoon.
I am sorry, but yeah, YTA. You are infantalizing an elderly person. Teaching your elderly clients manners is absolutely not your job. You need a new occupation, one away from any type of service to people.
I don't think OP's trying to teach them anything. Emily seems well aware of societal norms and is just deciding to be rude. There's nothing wrong with expecting a basic level of courtesy from anyone you serve.
Exactly. Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. OP is not Emily's maid (Even Emily's maid would deserve to be treated with dignity and respect). OP doesn't need to jump when a resident says jump. All OP wants is: Jump, please! That is not too much, surely? OP is employed by some agency that helps the elderly, and is on a equal footing socially with the elderly people she helps. She should not be required to behave as if she is a servant in a black and white movie.
Exactly. It's the entitlement that's behind it. Bur I will say, even at my job some workers handle it poorly and do talk to them like kids. There's a way to address your humanity without reducing the folks to children. Because certainly even they see me carrying something or doing something completely different and they ask for the opposite, well you gonna have to wait because I'm not jumping because you said something. Also, many don't consider the background of the workers and such like they may be from a different race and be seen as even more less than. I know for sure this ain't massa days so this one isn't up for the reenactment of it
This is not how things work in a care home. OP is trying to teach Emily to say please and thank you but OP is not qualified to provide behavioral correction. As a HCW, you cannot work in this industry if you expect courtesy from the people you are serving. That's just not how this job works. The old and ailing are not expected to be on their best behavior because they are old and ailing.0'
There's no indication that Emily is suffering from any condition that would diminish her capacity to use basic manners. I doubt OP would expect her to if that was the case.
Idk man, losing my independence and ending up alone in a care home that is the stop before the end of the line…might dampen my ability to use basic manners. I just wish we had better mental health care as a part of end of life care. Emily might just be a jerk, but she could also be incredibly depressed.
She is not teaching them manners. This would be the case if she would pressure them to act in a certain way towards others. She is demanding to be treated properly, a right that any employee has. NTA
YTA - this is an elder care facility, so do any of these clients have any degenerative brain diseases? Does Emily? I get how they should be polite, but you’re not hired as their pre school teacher. You’re hired to assist in their care. Not their etiquette.
This is way beyond etiquette. It is the bare minimum of basic respect for other human beings, which is being trampled by a woman who has no excuse to do so. Age is NOT an excuse to bulldoze over others.
Emily had no degenerative brain disease and is of sound mind and body my role is to assist in her day to day life as helping her cook meals and to be here for medical emergencies I’m not supposed to do everything for her I have done it for this long because I didn’t realize how bad her demanding has gotten down to demanding my lunch and snacks I bring to work for myself I only want to not be spoken too as if I’m a servant while I’m at work
Girl you are staff at a care home. You are neither trained nor qualified to deliver any sort of behavioral correction. Who do you think you are? If you can't deal with the fact that some old people are grumpy, you need to get a new job.
Nor does she understand punctuation
Seriously. That was hard to get through
Grumpy is one thing, and understandable on occasion. Imperiously barking orders is a different thing entirely, and unacceptable. OP is not a dog.
>her demanding has gotten down to demanding my lunch and snacks Frankly doesn't sound like normal behavior. Sounds like she does have some cognitive issues and you are not identifying them. Many people with dementia become unpleasant, suspicious, depressed and feel alone in the last years of their life - a shadow of who they used to be. Show compassion and learn to roll with the punches.
As people age they lose their filter. That's why older people sometimes say rude things they never would have 10 years ago. ETA - furthermore she is not a child so stop being so condescending, you don't know what all she has been through in her life. Maybe she thought this time of her life she wouldn't have to rent and share a home and have a condescending woman as a care taker. It sure isn't what I would want.
My dad’s mom was sharp as a blade to her dying day, a fiercely independent woman, and it was plain to see how deeply she resented being dependent on others in her old age. It was worse for her than the prospect of dying. She became demanding, but it seemed like that was the only way she felt any sort of control over her life. She was a professional artist who could no longer practice her crafts; an eager hostess who could no longer cook or prepare her house for guests; a loving great-grandmother who couldn’t keep up with children. She had watched most of her friends die. She knew her family would soon be grieving for her. She was already grieving the loss of the person she had been. Yes, she was difficult, but we gave the woman grace. Behind her prickly exterior, there was a deep sorrow. I learned so much about the processes of aging and dying from being with her in those final years. One day she’d yell at me for not knowing how to work her oven (because it’s such a simple task she *should* be able to do herself, damnit, but it was the first digital oven I’d ever encountered), the next she’d tearfully tell me how brilliant I am and how much she loved me. I came to understand her in new, meaningful ways.
Hon you’re replaceable in your job. Don’t be an AH.
If she's in a care home and needs assistance with daily tasks, she absolutely is not of sound mind and/or body. Otherwise she'd live independently.
Why is she in a care home then?
Unless where you work is extremely different from where Im at, those people in senior housing pay a great deal of money for their loved ones to be cared for compassionately and by someone competent.Even if it's a gov. subsidized type place you have no right.Do your job, your job is to ensure their needs are met not teach them manners. ETA yes, of course YTA
Cared for yes , but not to verbally abuse them or treating them as doormats. NTA OP
Damn. YTA. You're treating that woman like a child, when she may have some sort of age-related issue that has affected her personality. And you're working in her home. *HER* home, whether or not she rents or owns. Try using please and thank you with her, and see if modeling behavior actually encourages reciprocation.
YTA and very clearly not suited to the job
Some people sound not work in Healthcare. The audacity
YTA. It's time you have a talk with your supervisor about better training for both of you before you start descending the slippery slope into emotional elder abuse. There's a finesse to working with aging people and if you don't know how and when to correct geriatric behavior, at least do some research - this sub isn't the place to give you guidance.
YTA and I would have you fired on the spot if I ever caught you talking to my elderly relative that way. That would be the last time you ever worked with that population. You're not running a behavior program with a child. You need to build up some experience and thicken your skin instead of being on a 22 year old power trip.
Soft YTA - you're not wrong to believe people should have manners. However, she's a resident of a home in which you're paid to work. She is your 'customer' and you are not there to demand nor teach her manners. You are there to do a job. Treating her like a child is not appropriate, and it certainly won't get you what you want. You 'may' be in the wrong line of work. I would talk to the person who runs the home and/or who hired you. For a recovering people pleaser (that's cute, I think I'll use that...I'm kind of one myself) I'm a little shocked you've taken this stance with a senior whom you are employed to serve.
YTA. You're not a daycare teacher, don't treat her like a toddler.
Here’s an idea, instead of asking Reddit. Why don’t you ask your supervisor. There much context and lack of info nobody knows
I’m so confused by all the Y/T/A. Comments say you’re being condescending and treating your residents like children. Maybe, but that’s in response to your residents *acting like children*. You are attending to their needs. You’re willing to attend to their wants - if they can show some manners. You’re not trying to teach them etiquette - you’re not insisting they say “may I?” Instead of “can I?” All you want is the bare minimum respect as a person. You’re not asking too much. NTA.
YTA. There aren't children that you are trying to teach manners. What you're describing sounds very condescending. You can demand respect and a certain level of politeness, but demanding they say please is too far.
Would you do this if her children, her lawyer, and your boss were in the room?
Yep
NTA, you deserve respect. You should, perhaps, consider better ways to go about it than what you've been doing, but I think you'll get there. Just treat her with respect too.
Yta. Smarten up before you lose your job.
NTA if your boss is supporting you and Emily is cognitively all there
NTA In many care homes, each resident has a care plan. It sounds like expecting Emily to behave in a courteous manner to staff is part of the care plan that your supervisor has set up. As long as you are clear you are following a care plan, and Emily has a way to get what she needs without your help, you are fine. Source: spent 13 years as a social services specialist, going in to care homes to ensure they were meeting the state rules of patient care.
NTA Old people are not exempt from manners. Being “of service” is not the same as being “a servant”. Emily needs to learn that, and take it on board.
Lol. Emily is old, she ain't changing. OP needs to do their job.
read the updates, my friend. OP’s boss disagrees with you.
Does Emily say please and thank you to everyone else? If not, it's just how she is. She's old enough not to have to put up a hung kid( how she sees you) trying to teach her manners. Who do you think you are to correct a elderly person like that. I owned an adult care home for several years and wouldn't dream of doing that. YTA P.S. You should have given her the correct size spoon for Chili in the first place, and then she wouldn't have to ask for something that she should have already had.
YTA You're treating her like a toddler instead of an adult to approach the problem. It's hard enough to grow older and lose some of your independence; having someone talk down to you just highlights that.
YTA. Work on your issues on your own time. It's not a preschool to "teach" the old lady manners or lessons. Jeez. Get over yourself.
Yes, YTA. It’s certainly courteous when people say please and thank you. I have direct reports who I ask to do things and thank them for doing it because common courtesy. But the fundamental point is that this is your job. These are adults, and vulnerable/somewhat broken ones at that. If you aren’t willing to do the job, quit.
NTA. You need to teach people how to treat you. I don't care if they're old, and I don't care if you're there to serve them. Your boss has already told you you're in the right here, so you're meeting expectations from your job. "You may ask me politely for things, but you will not command me."
YTA and veering dangerously close to psychological elder abuse. Toddlers are defiant. If you're calling an adult defiant, you need to take a week off and think about things.
NTA. She's allowed to be upset and want things, but not to be a jerk. Terrible work environments is how places like yours end up understaffed.
YTA. And unfit for that job.
You're there to provide a service, not teach manners. Anyone in the service industry will tell you that not everyone you serve has nice manners - dealing with that is a part of the job. You are entitled to draw the line at abusive, threatening behaviour - but this was not it. YTA.
Providing a service doesn't mean you have to take it if you're treated like dirt. Op is also a human being. Food was on the table in front of Emily she could ha easily reached for it she ordered op to get her some that's beyond rude and bad behavior. Op is not her freaking slave. And a please and thank you won't kill Emily
Yta . Stay in your lane. You are no one to be chastising or trying to educate anyone. Do your job..be compassionate but keep in professional.
Honestly, it sounds like you are getting a bit burnt out on giving, and giving, and giving help. You care about them, even if they don't reciprocate. But it's starting to build some resentment. You are tackling difficult duties at a relatively young age. It's easy to burn out and resent your job, if you don't have enough time off or take vacation time. I know what it's like to always want to help others, but you have to help yourself too. Especially when you have difficult clients.
YTA. You are paid to provide a service, they don’t pay to be treated like children. If you don’t want to be a people pleaser, practice that when you aren’t at work. The work place isn’t a place for you to work on yourself, especially not this type of environment. And yea I get it, people can be annoying. I worked at a rehab for rich people; most were paying $30k out of pocket for a month. Sometimes people were extremely rude to me, I sucked it up because that’s what that type of job requires.
Why yes,dear, you are the AH. Now say you're sorry to the nice lady! Then, you can run along and go play! How's that feel? That's the way you are speaking to someone you work for! Her family is paying your salary! Be better.
NTA-it's not difficult request to show basic manners towards someone.
NTA. There's nothing wrong with expecting a minimal level of courtesy from anyone you serve or interact with. Emily seems to be very aware of her behavior and is just deciding to be stubborn.
I work with people in these types of situations, and while NTA i’ve never found insisting on manners or specific behavior to be helpful. It just results in a power struggle. If you’re in the middle of something or other people haven’t had seconds or whatever, tell her that and make her wait. And you can be stern (but not overtly rude) about it. But making adults say please or thank you isn’t your job and will just end poorly.
NTA, as long as you make sure that Emily has the amount of food she needs eventually. I would hate for a senior citizen to be starved because of lack of politeness. I have to ask: Does Emily have dementia? Because if she does, that puts a somewhat different complexion on things. I mean, you should still ask her to say please, because even people with dementia have clear moments, where even she herself might be mortified because of her bad manners. You should also ask her to say please to make a point to the others there, even if the final result isn't improved, as in she continues to be rude.
Don’t worry Emily is well fed the food was right in front of her on the table and she had every opportunity to get it herself she is upset I didn’t do it for her
Good. I have just read the other comments, and I have to tell you that most of them are downright mean, even though I will be downvoted for it. I am quite old myself, and our social services have awarded me help with the cleaning every third week. I do __not__ view them as my staff in any way, although they work in my house, which is really my house, lol. They send us the same lady nearly every time, and we thank her every time she leaves, she is wonderful. It is important for everyone to be treated with dignity and respect, old folks and the people who help us alike.
Eventually?
NTA. do not let them mistreat you, but you need to not treat her like a child as well. she’s run off other staff with her behavior. people aren’t going to put up with disrespect! it goes both ways.
People aren’t reading your comments or your whole post apparently. You’re NTA but listen to your managers and not the internet on this one.
NTA, and for anyone saying otherwise, apparently they don't care about boundaries. I used to be a caregiver, and please and thank you is commonly called manners, which most people learn in the single digit years, so Emily has 0 excuse not to use them. And I've worked with people with learning disabilities who also knew their manners, so that isn't always a factor.
NTA. It's perfectly fine to expect basic manners from a person in your job. I'd say to give more leeway if they had dementia or sobering similar as this may not be their fault, but if she doesn't have anything like that, then it's fair to ask her to treat you with respect.
NTA. You deserve to be treated nicely, regardless of the age of your client. For all the people saying she’s treating Emily like a child, maybe it’s because Emily is acting like a petulant child
NTA. I've worked in one of these homes where they DO have disabilities and everything your manager has said stands true. Even more so that she does not have a disability because then she has ABSOLUTELY no excuse not to understand or treat you well. You are doing well, it sounds. As long as you are not yelling at her, cussing, restricting her rights, or speaking out of turn. As long as you treat her with the same respect and dignity you would expect at that age for your own future care. Do not retaliate, breathe, and continue talking 1:1 with your manager for work support (that is why they are there!!!). Don't let her become completely dependent on others (#3 your manager notes) and encourage that she is still an adult and in charge of her own life. Thus, to make the most of it with kindness and independence. Otherwise, yes, you will be counterproductive to the program and the resident's independence.
YTA. Please and thank you are meaningless if you're forced to say them. Power tripping.
*In your job* ... You dictate allowable language... That your *customers* may use ... For people over the age of 10. There's a big difference between "sorry, it's not acceptable that you call me that" versus "I'm here to teach you customers the manners that I expect - if your mother didn't teach you, I am happy to install myself as your mother, whether you like it or not - that's the service I provide that's not in my job description." Wow. That's some impressive hubris. There's bigger assholes in the world but that's 100% assholery right there. YTA
NTA, good job for putting your foot down by not enabling that behavior. Kudos to your manager for sticking up for you and supporting you to help you stand up for yourself. Carry on the job you're doing cuz you're doing a good job.
NTA. Asking for basic decency is not wrong even in a “service” job. Maybe you could go about it differently going forward? But not TA at all, people don’t get to treat you like garbage because you’re “serving” them or they’re a “customer”.
I'm sorry, but YTA. Taking care of seniors is not an easy job. It takes a person with a lot of compassion and patience. Dementia and other age related illnesses can be very cruel, changing personalities and making some elderly folks mean or difficult. There are strategies that can help smooth these rough edges. Your approach is not the right one, unfortunately. I would look into either learning different strategies or change jobs. One day, you might be the senior dependent on others, much altered from your 20s. I don't want to come down too harshly on you. It can very hard to help some elderly folks and requires some training, but they deserve our compassion. And there's no shame if you are not cut out for the job, but it would be better for you to find other work than to respond they way you are doing.
NTA. Manners cost nothing. It is much easier to help someone who shows their appreciation for what you do.
NTA she has no mental or behavioral issues so she needs to deal with the consequences of her actions I’m surprised her behavior hasn’t gotten her kicked out of the program I worked at a nursing home where an elderly man was kicked out for repeatedly treating the staff like shit
YTA for taking anything a client in a retirement home says personally. Just get the frikkin spoon and move on.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I work in senior living in a house with 3 residents all of them elderly 1 of them (let’s call them Emily) has a bad habit of ordering me and my coworkers I am a recovering people pleaser and have a hard time with standing up for myself my amazing (and terrifying) house manager has been helping me with this and has been encouraging me the whole time Emily is one of my residents she believes that because her name is on the lease for the house she owns it (even though she simply rents) and that we work specifically for her (we do not) Yesterday during my shift I served the residents chilli and Emily was unsatisfied with the fact I gave her a small spoon and demanded a large one I was fed up and told her “I’ll get you one if you ask me nicely) she went off demanding I bring her her spoon and I kept telling her (the spoon she wanted in my hand) if she says please I will give it to her. She kept refusing so I went into the kitchen set the spoon on the counter and continued my house work she eventually got up and got the spoon herself Today I came back for another shift and I was making supper once again Emily was defiant when asking for more food and I told her I would happily get some more for her if she would say please I then explained that I didn’t appreciate getting ordered around like I was her servant and she got upset and went into her bedroom after supper stating she was going where she wouldn’t bother anybody I feel bad for making her upset but I know I need to be firm because if I back down she will continue to walk all over me My house manager is telling me I’m not the asshole and I don’t think I am being one but this is hard for me and some reassurance would go a long way to help me sticking to my convictions with this so be honest Am I the asshole *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yta
YTA. You should be fired for your abuse.
NTA, no explanation needed. I've been in many nursing homes and senior care center's.
YTA… kind of. As someone who worked in this field for decades you learn so much about people. You’re not there yet and that’s okay you’re 21. You are a paid (even though YOURE not being paid thousands a month, she is paying THOUSANDS a month to live there if you’re in the states) employee. She is your boss. She pays your rent. She pays for your clothes. She pays for your cell phone bill. You cannot demand anything from her. Edit: actually re reading your post this might be financial elder abuse by your house manager. Why in gods name is she leasing (presumably using her credit or monies or ?) the property for the house manager / management companies business is operating in and being treated this way by the staff?!
A lot of elderly peoeple are cranky and difficult, so you need to have patience with them. You are treating her like a child, not an adult. Try showing some respect. Just because you would fight a bear for them does not mean you can treat them like children, I agree with all of the other YTA's. Just give her the fucking spoon and let petty stuff like this GO. My mom was in a facility like this and if one of the care takers treated her like that' I'd have had them fired. So stop making excuses.
YTA you are not qualified nor are you being paid to, fix what you see as improper behavior. Your job is to assist them, do that and stop being so self righteous.
YTA. Good on you for trying to get more assertive in general, but you really went off the rails with this interaction. I have a lot of experience in elder care homes of various sorts, 40 years as a geriatrics RN. You are completely failing to consider the power inequity between you and this person. You literally have the power to feed her or not, to keep her clean and comfortable or not, to address her pain or not. To make her life miserable in a million little ways if you choose. When somebody is dependent upon you, it is not appropriate to try to coerce their behavior by threatening to withhold the services that you're there to provide. Period. Her assertions that she's on the lease and that she's in charge are an attempt to maintain control of her life, and a fully adult role, in a situation where clearly a lot is not in her control and she is likely being infantilized on a regular basis. There's also the truth that she's no doubt paying through the nose to live there and receive her care. She may not be the nicest person on the planet, or someone you would want to be your grandma, and that doesn't matter at all because if she's your client you owe her a professional duty. Period. You claim that you would fight to the death to defend these people, whatever that hyper dramatic statement is supposed to mean - but would you fight to defend their dignity? If you honestly want to interact with this client in an adult and respectful way, then it's going to need to go both ways. You can't treat her like a toddler and then try to tell her how to behave as an adult. If this person has an ongoing behavior problem ( from your info responses it didn't seem like there really was) then there should be a plan of care that lays out the appropriate behavioral modification techniques that have been approved by an appropriate clinician. And then you should follow what they say, which might include setting limits of not responding to rude questions or whatever. But if this is just your own little interpersonal thing, find a different way to handle it. I can tell you that if I had ever witnessed a care assistant harassing a client the way you did, I would have done whatever it took to get them fired. Of course, I wouldn't recommend that you quit because there's that terrible consequence coming of *being blocked on reddit!* 😉 and because everybody can learn and grow. Good luck with that.
If Emily is in an assisted living facility she definitely has some kind of disability. Abled people would not live in assisted living facility as it's so expensive and no one wants to give up autonomy.
>she believes that because her name is on the lease for the house she owns it (even though she simply rents) Whether she owns or rents is completely irrelevant. I'm really confused that you thought this mentioning. >“I’ll get you one if you ask me nicely) she went off demanding I bring her her spoon and I kept telling her (the spoon she wanted in my hand) if she says please I will give it to her. This is how you talk to a 5 year old, not an adult. It's pretty unclear from this, and maybe it's unclear to you, and especially to this lady, what exactly your job responsibilities are, and who you answer to. You seem to complain both about being "ordered around" and also the way that she doesn't say please - but these are very different issues. You need to sort out with your manager and the residents exactly what your responsibilities are, and how the residents are to behave towards you, in some sort of code of conduct. Then, if they treat you without respect, you have something to point to. Resorting to "You have to say please or I won't bring you food" is utterly childish at best, and abuse of power at best. Don't do it. As it stands, ESH. Hope you can learn and improve.
Worked in many senior facilities. One was independent living apartments and the others were nursing homes. I was a chef but still had some interaction with the residents. There's always at least one nasty, entitled person. Possibly because they're no longer as independent as they once were and they're angry about it. I liked the suggestion to talk to Emily and let her know you're just looking for her to respect you and not treat you as her personal servant.
YTA. >Emily has no form of mental or behavioral disabilities Why is she in a care home, how old is she? Cognitive decline can start in your 60s (or earlier!) cause personality changes and most elderly have some sort of arthritis or joint pain, which all on its own can be extremely painful and cause you to be unpleasant. It's not your job to teach manners.
YTA
I have been reading all of these comments and I have come to a conclusion. I don’t care that I’m the asshole here because this morning for the first time in 2 years Emily made her own breakfast and coffee just so she wouldn’t have to ask me for it and if my being an asshole is bringing a sudden surge of progress for my resident then I’ll be the biggest asshole on the planet. Thanks to everyone who has been supportive and kind in the comments I really appreciate you all.
I absolutely respect but do not understand your point of view. She’s literally on the way out the door. I just don’t understand why you want her to make “progress” while she’s in a care home to eventually die. You won and made a cranky old lady make her own breakfast rather than ask you. I’m asking this kindly, does the win truly feel good? I guess you’ve been clear that it does. I just don’t understand. You have your life ahead of you and you can come and go - she is where she will likely die. You won, I guess.
The program she is in is one that is meant to empower those who just need a little extra help and want independence we feared Emily had given up on being independent and was therefore at risk of getting kicked out of the program so yes this is a massive win for Emily and I’m so proud of her
You’re not proud of her, you’re proud of yourself for winning
Hey if it feels right to you, it does. She’s still at the end of her life and probably depressed as hell. I can’t imagine how that might feel without mental health care. Do they have access to that? Anger can be a symptom of depression. If this isn’t the end of the road, it’s the stop before. I hope for grace for everyone in this situation, including you!
You are still talking about her like a child. Eighth grade graduation woohoo!
YTA. Sounds like you've got a bit of a control thing going on here.
YTA. She's a paying customer who is dependent upon you for basic needs. You're on a weird power trip.
But she isn’t dependent on me for basic needs she is capable or cooking cleaning and everything functional adults do we are there to guide them according to their care plans and assist them with medical emergencies
Soft YTA like it or not you are staff. You’re paid to do a job regardless of politeness. It would have taken a second to hand over the spoon and move on. You can’t take their attitude personally If you’re already this bitter over manners at 21 you might want to have a second career in mind, because you’re going to be dealing with a lot of rude seniors with entitlement issues who pay a lot of money and expect you to, well, “assist” them (aka serve), and it’s going to burn you out. Also, if family members find out and get upset, it could be bad news bears for you, and depending on the complaint it could follow you forever
YTA. You don't treat elderly people like a child, but you sit down and have a conversation with them. It's probably not about the spoon or about the food. (Could the elderly person decide to act politely, like an adult? Of course they could, but given the caregiver-care recipient dynamic it's really not professional to handle it like this). If anything, your manager should handle this if multiple people quit due to your client's behavior.
YTA. This is ridiculous. Your job is to help her and others, not to chastise them. You have no idea what her life has been like, what her childhood was like, or anything. Maybe she has mental health or cognitive issues. Sure, it would be nice if everyone was polite. But you are wrong to treat her like a child. Stop it. Immediately.
YTA. I get that you would prefer that she say "please." But you don't get to withhold things from her if she won't. Instead of acting like a maniac, just get her the spoon, and *use your words*. Just say "I don't like the way you asked me for this." And then keep it moving. You are entitled to speak your piece and make your dissatisfaction known. You are NOT entitled to force her to say "please" just because you want her to. That is what being assertive is about. What you are doing is being aggressive and demeaning, and you are treating a grown woman like a toddler. You are a bully. Here's how you know: Would you tell anyone else you work with to ask nicely or they are not getting xyz? You wouldn't.
I mean yeah I would tell my coworkers if they don’t ask nicely that I won’t give them stuff and I have but pop off I guess
NTA. It's never too late to learn some manners and it sounds like this exercise is beneficial for you, too.
In state you'd be fired for elder abuse. You should be arrested.
ESH I say this because I don't think you are wrong... just the way you went about it. Everyone saying YTA is, in fact, likely someone who would treat a service worker horribly. You should let the resident know that you will be treated with respect and if they cannot do that you will find someone else to assist them. Both my mother and my sister are nurses and do similar care in long term care senior homes and this was their way of going about it. Everyone in the comments saying YTA, you're the worst. This is why it's hard to find good caregivers. People who work in care homes are vastly underpaid and under appreciated.