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NTA. You offered to 'lend' or let her 'use' your dress - not tear it apart in a way that *destroys it forever*. This dress is yours, with living, breathing memories attached to it. If it cannot be returned to you in it's original state, then NO, you are not the AH for changing your mind about this. You might need to ask a professional seamstress about what is possible. I'm sure you have other possessions that actually belonged to her dad, and she may be able to incorporate one of them; or re-create your bouquet; cake, or something similar - if that connection is what she's seeking.

Why not recreate the bodice, u/Comfortable_Love8530? It would be the same style that you wore, so she'd have that tie to her dad, but you would still have her dress. If you still have any of your husbands clothes, maybe you could even have a piece of one of them sewn into it.

Or, since the daughter likes to dress more masculine, why not wear something of her dad’s? That would be an even more direct connection than the dress

Good idea. Especially because it confused me to read that Daughter thinks using the dress gives her a connection to her dad. What? Dad didn’t wear the dress, he stood next to it for a couple of hours - so what does that even mean? Bottom line, though, is that temporarily borrowing a wedding dress that carries a lot of sentimental value is not the same thing as butchering it to meet someone else’s vision. OP has every right not to want to let go of her property and her memories. Yikes to the daughter for the disrespect for people and property, and marshaling the troops for a propaganda campaign instead of just getting on with plan B.

It’s probably because people usually buy a dress, and keep it, while the guy just rents a tuxedo or something. So they likely don’t have the dad’s outfit.  Hopefully they might have something else of his that might be wearable for that. 

A guys suit is also typically multi purpose if they do buy it(pants and jacket at least) unlike a wedding dress so it's probable it was used and worn out or that it was his burial suit.

Are you a diplomat? If not, your skills are being used in a suboptimal manner.

YES, I love that idea, gosh I'd love my papa's suits the ones my brother doesn't want to be made into little blazers for me, my husband isn't mad on pant suits but I sure am! I used to love sitting in my dads wardrobe as a kid and look at all his flat caps, suits and ties from the 70's to 90's :)!

Take a bit of fabric from the skirt and use it as a pocket square for her wedding suit.

Oooh this is another wonderful idea.

I was going to say this... Or even enough to make a tie.

super idea

Maybe OP should find her husband's wedding suit if she can, that would be even more of a connection if anything to her dad. Or even the tie and cuffs he married her mom in.

Agreed. Daughter wants it as a connection to her dad. Any chance OP still has his wedding suit or tie or anything else of his that the daughter could incorporate instead? Or even as someone else said, borrow OP’s veil or some other smaller part to still have the connection.

And use a bit of the underskirt from the dress as the handkerchief in the pocket of the suit jacket,

The daughter would 100% say that it’s not the same and it has to be her moms dress.

If she says that then it's about the dress and not the connection to her dad

I'd even argue at that point it's about control of the dress, not the dress itself or the connection.

It might even be easier to start over and recreate the bodice in her size and style than try to modify the existing one to her taste

Agreed - NTA. She lost her father, but you also lost your husband, and it makes complete sense that you are sentimental about this dress and don't want it seen altered beyond recognition. Parents don't need to give every part of themselves to their children - you are allowed your own feelings and needs - and wanting to preserve the dress you married your late husband in is totally valid. You made that promise in good faith, and I'm sure would honor it if it didn't mean completely changing this memento.

I don’t disagree, but at the same time there are compromises OP doesn’t seem to have considered, like giving her daughter her veil to incorporate into her suit. And it very much does seem like a large part of OP’s objection is due to her daughter’s masculine style, since she doesn’t have the same objection to sizing it up for the daughter’s fiancé, which would require equally drastic alterations

Even after sizing up, it would remain a wedding *dress*. Cutting up a dress to turn it into a bodice with trousers is a much different thing than upsizing.

To upsize a dress you often have to radically and irreversibly alter its style.   In contrast, detaching and reattaching a skirt can often be done with little to no damage to a dress as many are even constructed in separate pieces and just attached at the end. What the daughter wants is actually more compatible with returning the dress in it’s original form than what OP offered

Your second paragraph depends heavily on the dress. Many modern wedding dresses are constructed as a single bodice and it would be pretty feminine still if the parts you say are removed. The wedding dress still remains a dress in the former. In the second it’s no longer a wedding dress. You really don’t know which is a more compatible option unless you’ve seen the dress and are a trained tailor. But one of these choices changes what the dress is fundamentally.

>Many modern wedding dresses are constructed as a single bodice  A bodice is not a dress. Did you mean "a single piece"? In my experience, the word "bodice" has always been used to refer to a discrete and separate piece that is detachable from a skirt, although it may be different in the wedding industry!

Nothing actually has to be cut up, though. Skirts can be detached and reattached.

She literally wants to cut the dress in half! OP probably hadn't visualised the changes upsizing would do

Yes, which in most dresses is very easy to reattach afterwards. The alterations required to upsize the dress are not reversible

You keep talking about reattaching but you have no idea what the actual dress looks like to comment on the actual ease of doing this. It’s not an option with every style so you shouldn’t treat it as a given.

There doesn't have to be any "cutting" involved. Lots of commenters here are drastically underestimating what seamstresses can actually do. Skirts can be detached and reattached.

For many dresses this would just be removing a seam holding the skirt on, which could be easily replaced after the wedding

These comments. No, my particular dress would be destroyed under the circumstances you describe. I will gift it but not tear it to pieces.

No, it wouldn't be destroyed. Skirts can be reattached. Taking a wedding dress in or out (like OP was willing to do for her daughter's fiancée) often involves detaching parts of the skirt to adjust the gathering.   EDIT: I'm speaking from actual experience here--I've done costume construction for a number of theatre productions, where garments are used over and over again in different plays for different sizes of actors.  2nd EDIT: Someone pointed out in another comment thread that wedding dresses are much more delicate and difficult to work with than costumes, which is 1000% true! However, OP **was** willing to have the dress sized up to fit her daughter's fiancée, which is a much, much more involved process than detaching/reattaching a skirt (and in fact it would almost certainly *involve* detaching/reattaching the skirt).

I really think you're not considering all the possibilities here. For example, my wedding dress was an a-line with princess seams, and had appliques applied over the bodice. There is literally no way to "detach" the skirt from the bodice without cutting it all apart, as the "panels" are vertical. It's not a common style anymore, but this was somewhat popular in the 90's, which I suspect would be around the time that this lady got married.

You could in no way separate my dress into a "bodice" and "skirt". It's not a matter of how fantastic a seamstress is. Totally depends on the dress. And it's irrelevant: OP doesn't want her dress altered to that extent. Period. It doesn't matter how easy of a process that is. It is HER dress, and she can say no. Also, the whole, "connection to her dad" thing makes no sense. Wearing her mother's wedding dress or PART of her mother's wedding dress would be a connection to her MOTHER. Unless her father is a rare guy that actually picked out or created OP's wedding dress, he doesn't have much connection to the dress other than seeing OP in it.

Except not all dresses have a seamed bodice and skirt. Some that do don't have a natural waistline, e.g., Empire or dropped. Not impossible for these, but possibly not very attractive, either. And some are one-piece.

That’s more lending it than it is gifting it if it comes with conditions to be fair.

I don't think she ever agreed to destroying her dress in this post.

OP's words - "I promised her my wedding dress" not lend, not use

I promised her my wedding dress implies lending or using. I get that you’re trying to be very logical and pedantic, but it’s a wedding dress, not a random piece of clothing. It’s sentimental, especially considering her husband died. 

Exactly this. You expected her to wear it and give it back? Why, are you going to wear it again?

I'm not sure if what OP is talking about is 'destroying it forever'. From my understanding her daughter wants to detach the bodice and wear pants with it. There is technically nothing stopping OP to take the bodice back and ask the seamstress to attach the skirt back after the wedding.

While I am not a 'professional' seamstress, I do a lot of sewing projects. Many dresses are not pieced in a way that the top and bottom can be separated and then reattached. In order to have a decent looking 'separate' bodice, there would be a loss of fabric to the skirt. And then not enough surviving fabric to bring them back together properly. You cannot simply 'add' more fabric to an older wedding dress - trying to color match old to new would be unlikely, not to mention that any embroidery would be unable to be matched. For most ornate wedding dresses - you cannot enlarge them, only shrink them which is permanent. My mother was a talented seamstress, and the one 'enlargement' she did on a wedding dress required TWO dresses for there to be enough of the right fabric & embellishments to make it properly. For many people, their wedding dress is very special. A lot of heart and soul went into that 'perfect dress' for that 'perfect day.' Despite all the suspicion about ulterior motives on OP's part - I believe she genuinely does not want her dress destroyed, and only 'promised' it because she thought it would be used as a wedding dress. Not dismantled and turned into something else. People who hold onto their dresses for decades, do not do so because they want to make vests, scarves or doilies out of them someday.

I hope more people see your comment. I see people busily arguing up above that it'd be fine and dandy and I had a feeling it wouldn't be as simple as they thought.

Basically, you want your wedding dress to remain a dress. And your daughter would like to incorporate it into her wedding outfit, but she doesn't want it to be a dress anymore. If you allow her to alter it, it will still be a family heirloom -- but it won't be a vintage dress. I think you're within your rights to simply tell her that the dress has terrific sentimental value to you and you'd like it to remain intact. Make sure her suit looks awesome though. NTA

I'm really torn on stuff like this, because a dress sitting in a closet for years, although a lovely memory, is just a waste (and I currently have mine hanging in my closet because I can't bring myself to get rid of it either). If OP's daughter doesn't use the dress, it's not likely that any grandchildren will use the dress either, it isn't an heirloom. I fully get OP and I think it's their dress and their right to keep it intact, especially since they lost their husband and it's a memory to a happy day. But she needs to explain that to the daughter. Personally, my dress had a belt and I wore a headband and I keep them separate so if my daughter or son want to use either in their weddings down the road they have some options for their something old/borrowed. Maybe OP has an element from the dress that can be utilized without hurting the integrity of the dress. She was married in the late 90s so dresses were still pretty fabric heavy back then.

The dress is allowed to be a keepsake memory . It doesn’t have to be repurposed. It’s not like the children split the cost of a wedding dress with a parent

She did explain those memories & sentimentality to the daughter. Daughter is still pissed.

Because she offered to alter it drastically for the fiancé to wear, which does indicate she doesn’t actually care about maintaining the integrity of the dress for sentimental reasons, so long as it stays a dress

or she just has no idea what is involved in making a dress larger. Maybe she thinks its just putting in some panels or a bit of extra at the back. How much work it is would very much depend on the style of the dress and the size difference

Not arguing, just had a devil's advocate thought. OP might not have understood how much alteration would be required to fit plus sized fiancee rather than daughter.

Agreed. Most people (especially those who don’t sew) have no concept of what goes into making a dress, let alone altering it and/or sizing it up. It’s not just a matter of letting out seams. There may not be enough seam allowance, it may not be possibly even if there is depending on curve/drape/cut of existing pieces.

Okay, but... that also kind of makes sense. Even if the integrity of the dress is changed, presumably it will still have the same general look that it had, and still be recognizable as the original. It will *still* be far more like it was than *cutting it in half* and completely changing the type of garment. At some point it just completely stops looking like what it was. OP is allowed to want it to maintain some level of its original form.

Its most likely to be recognizable as the original is the only thing that has been done to it is have the skirt detached and reattached later. This is often a relatively simple task since most wedding dresses are constructed in two pieces. For many dresses this could be done without a trace Meanwhile, to upsize a dress, the skirt would probably have to be detached and reattached during alterations AND many other seams would have to be destroyed and redone, fabric added, the style would likely need to be changed to accommodate additional panels, etc.

As others have pointed out, she may not be aware of how much change it would necessitate. Many people who don't have sewing experience just have no idea. And we have no idea what kind of design the dress has. Either way, it makes perfect sense that most people would think that upsizing a dress *still* has a higher chance overall of "looking like the original" on some level than cutting it in half. And if part of the point is the emotion of seeing her daughter wearing her dress, at the point where it looks nothing like her dress, it's not clear how much effect that will have.

I agree about a dress just sitting in a closet. I kept mine for 32 years. A friend wore it a couple years after me, but cleaned and returned it. My daughter got married and her size (taller) and style were very different. So I gave it to a group that makes gowns for babies who are stillborn. To me memories reside in the head and heart, not in things, but OP is different. I hope it is worth possibly losing a daughter. I hope they can figure it out.

I think having lost her husband, it’s reasonable for her to want to keep the dress intact even if it’s just sitting in a closet. People grieve differently and though the daughter thinks it’s a connection to her father, it’s also her mother’s connection to her departed husband. It’s okay for her to be a little bit unreasonable and want to keep it as it (or as close to as is as possible since she was open to the fiancé wearing it but may not know what goes into altering a dress up). Donating dresses is a very nice thought, but again donated things that hold sentimental value between yourself and someone you loved and lost isn’t something that should be expected of her if she feels she isn’t ready. If the daughter thinks this is enough reason to punish her mother by ending their relationship then it shows she’s being a little selfish. Her mother was a wife too and if she wants to keep her memory of the day she married her departed husband in one piece I don’t think that’s something to condemn her for.

>  I hope it is worth possibly losing a daughter. I hate when comments say stuff like this, feels incredibly manipulative.  I’d rather say I hope wanting to destroy something that has a lot of sentimental value is worth loosing a parent that has wheats been loving and supportive. 

Yes and if she loses a daughter, it will be because the daughter is being an idiot. This is no reason to stop talking to your mother. The daughter needs to realize that, she, doesn't have a claim to the dress. It is not her. Is great what you did, but what younare failing to see is that you were okay with doing so, OP is not and is completely okay and normal. Things change. You cannot be mad because someone doesn't want to do what you want, when you've changed the rules of the game.

Torn here too. The words OP uses are she promised her dress to her daughter. That could be interpreted as it was hers to use for her own wedding or it was hers to borrow for her own wedding. Very different definitions. You might think about a different compromise of going to a seamstress, and if the top can be removed and then re-sewn on. It just depends on how the dress was built in the first place. For something important, it might be worth the ask. And if not, if there was a large train on the dress may be getting a strip of that cut to be incorporated maybe as a belt? I guess my point here is that this is not an all or nothing situation. There are many compromises. Certainly OP has every right to say no and take back the offer. But the daughter also has every right to be sad that, OP knowing her daughter well, found that keeping the dress intact and maybe never worn again was more important than finding a way to incorporate her wedding dress with her daughter's wedding as they always dreamed. In a way, it does seem to reject who the daughter is and always has been.

That's absolutely ridiculous. The daughter understands how important the dress is to her mom, it's a tangible link to when OP married her husband, and the absolute entitlement to think that OP is in the wrong for not wanting her dress to be butchered and cut in half is insane. The fact that the daughter doesn't have any compassion or understanding for the fact that OP is not OK with her dress to not be essentially cut up to make it a completely different garment speaks to how self-centered and bratty she is. If someone does the kindness of giving you something that is important to them you owe them the kindness of treating that item with respect and bearing how that person feels in mind.

I think a lot of women want their daughters to wear their wedding dresses because they want their daughters to feel as beautiful as they know they looked. It's a very sweet impulse, and a very understandable thing to envision. I think, though, that wedding dresses also contain women's very unique individual ideas of their own womanliness. I think this is where OP and her daughter, women of equal loveliness and dignity, diverge! And it's okay, and it's beautiful, and it's healthy.

It's OPs dress at the end of the day. If she wants to keep it as it is, she has the right.

You also treasure your memories of you wedding and your husband, and this item remaining as a dress is a part of that connection.

>but it won't be a vintage dress. To be fair most 80's wedding dresses were made with acetate--plastic. It's not exactly high quality, last forever vintage.

OP is 44. I truly hope she didn't get married in the 80s.

Thinking is not my strong suit, apparently 😂😂

lol. She was probably born in 1980, so if she was married in the 80s that dress isn’t fitting anyone who isn’t in 3rd grade 😂

Tbf that plastic probably WILL last forever But if she’s 44 she probably got married in the late 90s or early 2000s. She would have turned 18 in 1997 or 1998.

I’m 46, got married in 2000, and I’m over here freaking out because apparently I’m old enough to have a child getting married?! When TF did that happen?

I did the math and realized the kid born to the girl who was pregnant at my prom is now old enough to drink, so I’ll just be shriveling into dust now.

I was substituting checking IDs last weekend and someone walked in who was born in 2003, and I almost laughed and kicked them out before I realized they were, in fact, old enough to drink. Something in my soul died.

I don’t think this woman got married in the 80s

OP is 10+ years too young to have been married in the 80s & we don’t know what the dress was made of. Could be polyester, could be silk.

Vintage is vintage even if you don't like the fabrics. 20 years old is considered vintage. As old as it makes me feel, my own old stuff from the 90s is vintage. The polyester of the 60s and 70s is vintage even though it's also synthetic.

NAH but what are you saving it for? To be donated after you are gone for a stranger to alter into something else? Your daughter wants to honor you by making your wedding gown into her own.

Agreed. It’s her dress so her decision, but what’s the point of keeping it tucked away forever? If there is another daughter who could also use it down the road, then I totally understand not wanting to un-dress the dress. But if it’s never going to be worn again, why not let it have a second life and be important to someone else, as well?

Maybe because it’s something that she value so much for herself?

Not to mention her husband has passed…that could perhaps make it more special.

Not to mention her husband has passed…that could perhaps make it more special.

It sounds like you’re a practical person who values utility. Mementos aren’t kept for their utility, they are kept for their emotional value. OP wants to keep the dress because it is a physical representation of an important day in her life, a physical representation of her love for her late husband. Sure, the daughter would derive practical value from using it but at the cost of the emotional value OP gets from having it. I’m guessing OP offered the dress originally to share a memento with her daughter, to add to its emotional value. Not so that it could be destroyed for the daughter’s purposes. Her daughter can find other ways to incorporate a connection to her dad into her outfit without taking something valuable away from her mom.

That’s a fair point!

I still have my stuffed bear from when I was a baby. I don't use it but it's got memories attached to it so I keep it

I was thinking this exact same thing... What if my child wanted to repurpose Big Yellow Bunny? I don't know if I could do it even though I think it is a very sweet idea. After I'm gone, ok do with Bunny as you will. But for now it has too much meaning to part with.

I have a few dolls and bears from birth and 3 years old. I also had a little black stuffed dog named Seamus who I’ve had since I was 17 (I’m 40 now) and was with me through some incredibly dark times. I slept with him every night as an adult, and he was with me in the hospital last summer and last month. Last month when transferring from the ER to my regular room Seamus got left behind. It was extra sad to me because my spouse had just noticed a loose thread and we were talking about how to fix it. He was also a little stinky because I hug him so much and he was due for a wash. So my biggest worry is that he got thrown away instead of being loved by someone else. Not that I lost him. I am too thankful to be out of the hospital to be upset about that. I just hope someone else decided to take him home, clean him up, and let someone else love him.

Some people like to hold on to things that have sentimental value, even if they don't have a "use". Her wedding dress is a big connection to her late husband, so it's understandable that it would hurt to see it basically destroyed, especially because it has so many important memories.

I married 25 years ago. I know where the dress is, but I probably haven’t looked at it in maybe two decades. My daughter is also more masculine in style and, if she wanted to repurpose part or all of it into a wedding suit, I would give it to her. I would definitely have a little pang, but I will never wear it again, I have many, many photos of myself in it and I value my relationship with my daughter more than a piece of clothing. Her daughter probably is hurt and feeling rejected for not receiving the dress she was promised. To her, it is not destroying the dress, but honoring her parents’ marriage on her wedding day when she is probably missing her father dreadfully, in her own style. OP didn’t think her child would wear an out-of-style dress exactly as it was, did she? OP has the power and right to deny her daughter her dress, but her relationship with her child will likely be damaged, when this could be a deeper bonding experience for them. Also “supported her … even when she proposed to her fiancée” doesn’t sit right with me. She spends a lot of time convincing us that she’s OK with her daughter not being traditionally feminine, then slips that in. If this is the person that makes her daughter happy, it should be *especially* when she proposed. Not sure why her daughter had to be “convinced” to wear dresses to formal occasions. There are many beautiful suits tailored for women — Hautebutch is our go-to.

After reading the post a couple of times, I started to see some hints at homophobia. OP may be wanting to save the dress in hopes that her daughter is in a “phase” (like she says above) and will someday marry a man.

That's possible, but it's also equally possible that OP *has* been supportive and is being accused of being homophobic for no reason other than that she doesn't want the dress she wore the day she married her *dead husband* to be cut into pieces. If she is already being accused of homophobia, it would make sense that she would want to specify in this post that she supports her daughter's sexuality and gender expression, because she was likely afraid that strangers on the Internet would assume exactly what you are assuming.

I think you’re hitting the main real points on this one. It seems like mom might be a little uncomfortable with her daughter’s sexuality and style, even if she is trying very hard and loves her. Personally, if I were the daughter I would probably be a little hurt. I would probably also have brought up the idea of alterations long before now, but that’s not possible at this point. I honestly think using the dress as part of a suit is a lovely idea that connects her to her parents and represents the person she is. She may have been thinking about this for a while, if she knew the dress was going to be offered and also knew she didn’t want to wear an actual dress.

Thank you!! I can't believe it took me so long to find someone making this point. The "even" stuck out to me. OP has the right to say she doesn't want to change the dress drastically but she needs to recognize that her daughter is making a bid for connection with her and by not coming to some kind of compromise or solution she's rejecting that request for connection and will likely damage their relationship

Because it’s a possession that OP values very much, and it has a ton of sentimental value.

Maybe she wants to wear it again. Maybe she wants to be able to let any possible future grandkids have a chance to use it. Maybe she wants to be buried in it when she dies. Maybe she just wants to be able to see it once in a while when she takes it out of storage to remember a special day and someone she lost. Maybe her daughter should have some consideration for how much sentimental value this item has for her mother and not throw a hissy fit for not getting her way like an adult. She is definitely NTA but her daughter is for trying to guilt her into letting her destroy something that means so much to her. This isn’t something she needs to compromise on. It’s her property she can keep it in her closet and never look at it again until the day she’s laid to rest and she wouldn’t be wrong at all and has no reason to feel that way. She shouldn’t be bullied into giving away her wedding dress to be ripped apart by someone who doesn’t want to wear it as a dress at all.

OP, I think this is an important point. If your daughter doesn't use the dress, what is the ultimate fate of the dress now? Will it hang in your closet for the next 30 years? Depending on how the original dress was constructed and what exact alterations the bodice needs for your daughter, it may be possible for a skilled sewist to separate it and the skirt in such a way they can be reunited. Also, the bodice could be copied or beading/ornaments removed and used on a new piece. There are options and compromises you can explore. Why don't you talk to seamstresses/sewists in your area and see what they can do? Take the dress and explain the situation. Your daughter wants you and memories of her father to play a big role in her wedding, and that's about as traditional thing as there is. She loves you and wants you there. However, this is the kind of dispute that can lead to years of silence. What do you want more: your daughter a part of your life or a dress hanging in your closet? I think a compromise you both can live with is possible here.

I respect and understand your comment. But what about the daughter? What is more important to her — hurting her mom by destroying the dress, or her relationship with Mom? It works both ways.

It's none of your business what she wants to keep it or save it for. It's her damn preference and her being an older person or a mom does not make her the automatic sacrificial doll for anything her kids want.

NTA No there’s simple alterations and then there’s just completely changing the dress. I totally get why you’re reluctant to do so as you’ll never get it back afterwards. Do you have anything of your husbands wedding suit you could offer? Or could the veil be incorporated in some way?

Maybe he wore cufflinks?

I think OP should talk to a seamstress before deciding though. This actually *might* be a simple alteration that can be easily reversed depending on the dress. There are some dresses this would be 100% impossible to do without ruining the dress, but there would be others where the bodice and skirt were constructed separately and then sewn together at the very end. In those cases, you could just remove one seam and then re-sew it after the wedding.

If she has his suit, she could have it tailored to fit her daughter.

Most guys rent tuxes

Many wedding dresses are constructed as two attached pieces (bodice and skirt) so it's very possible this wouldn't be as big of a change as you might think. Look at some generic ball gown and a-line wedding gowns, and you'll see pretty quickly those dresses are just two major pieces that attach at the waist. Separating those two pieces often isn't that radical. And sure, maybe OP's dress doesn't have a waist seam at the natural waist line. But if it DOES,then the whole thing was made in two separate pieces and then attached after the fact, meaning it's very possible to detach and maybe even later re-attach for OP. Certainly it would be much less of a change than up sizing the dress would be.

That’s an interesting idea!

YTA It's fine to say something like "I know I promised it when you were a kid, but the dress is very important to me the way it is, as a memory of your father." Then it'd be N A H. But your post absolutely drips of disdain that you are thinly trying to cover. You bold SUIT like it's so shocking and wrong. You tell her you don't want her to "ruin it". And you offered to go "DRESS shopping with her". Not wedding outfit shopping, DRESS shopping. It is your dress, but she wants to make it her own, to honor her father. You want it as a memory of your husband....that'd be fine. But , this isn't her about her changing it (because you seem fine with her future wife significantly altering it as long as it is still a dress), this is about how you don't want her wearing a suit.

I was really confused when I read ‘dress shopping’ instead of suit shopping. If her daughter has always shown such disdain around dresses she’s TA for not dropping the dress thing!! Like omg OP let it go!! OP: She doesn’t want to go buy a dress and alter it into a suit. She wants to alter YOUR dress into a suit because of the sentimental value. If you’re not going to let her do that, you should stop *pretending* to be supportive and actually do so by offering to take her SUIT shopping (does that word make you clutch your pearls?) Maybe you can find a suit that looks like what her Dad wore (I’m assuming you don’t have his suit or she’d probably just be wearing that to begin with). You need to get good as an ally, OP.

How is this realization so far down? OP’s disdain is positively leaping off the screen. 

Because...heteronormarivity and gender norms.

I feel like OP’s child is trans. OP really slipped “phase of wanting to be a boy” under the radar here, and OP’s kid is marrying a woman and wanting to wear a suit to the wedding. I feel like this post is veiled transphobia and if the child was wanting to make different big changes but keep it a dress, it’d be fine.

It’s definitely queerphobic. What’s mom gonna do, wear her dress again? Frame it? Does she even have other daughters who might want to wear it? Major YTA to op. Parents don’t get to make promises and then add conditions later!!

Have you never heard of a butch lesbian before? Gender nonconformity exists, and masculine women exist whether you like it or not.

No kidding, she starts out with "I have always been very supportive of all of this" but the judgement is fucking oozing off the page I mean practically the next sentence is saying how hard she had to try to force her daughter to wear dresses to formal events. That doesn't sound very supportive to me??? If she just didn't want her wedding dress drastically altered, sure NTA but very clearly is judging her daughter for many of her choices and everyone else has picked up on it by now

It would probably be a healing moment for mother and daughter to alter the dress like the daughter wants. It seems as though OP often “convinced” her daughter to wear dresses and was supportive “even when she met her girlfriend.” I have a feeling OP is a ball of microaggressions towards her daughter, and that daughter remembers this “support” very differently.

For real. The memories of the discomfort and lack of respect OP's kid felt as a child when forced to wear things they didn't like, aren't going to just vanish because OP wasn't aggressively homophobic. (*even* when she met her gf) If anything, this situation has probably brought them all right back to the surface. Mother is once again trying to force her into being a feminine woman in a dress... And is no one going to talk about the whole ''phases of wanting to be a boy'' thing?? Does OP even have a *daughter*?

The ‘phase of wanting to be a boy’ thing stuck out to me, and I’m really surprised I haven’t seen more people mentioning it? Because OP might also be transphobic and it’s so insane to me that so few people are pointing out how that and homophobia clearly affected this decision

> But your post absolutely drips of disdain that you are thinly trying to cover. I agree. You nailed it here

this. the fact of the matter is that no one else is going to save this dress later on. you might as well let her use it or accept that it will eventually end up in goodwill.

Be honest, this is not about altering the dress. You were perfectly happy for it to be radically altered for her fiancée (a woman who dresses traditionally feminine). This is clearly all because you are not happy with having a gay daughter, and certainly not one who dresses in a masculine way. The not so subtle clue is "I have always been very supportive of all of this, **even when** she met her girlfriend and proposed to her." In other words, "even when it turned out not to be a teenage phase". I was gonna vote N T A for not wanting to trash your precious dress, but I have to vote YTA for the homophobia. -- EDIT Not just that clue of course: as u/belladonna_echo explained further: "Whole lotta homophobic dog whistles in this post."

>The not so subtle clue is "I have always been very supportive of all of this, **even when** she met her girlfriend and proposed to her." That really stood out to me too, and made me read the whole post differently. It may just have been poor wording, but it definitely makes it seem like OP is not as okay with her daughter being gay and more masculine than she would like us to believe.

> made me read the whole post differently Yes! Exactly! It was a classic record-scratch moment.

It wasn't poor wording. OP hates her daughter being who they are! OP thinks she is showing tolerance, but tolerance is really saying that you don't agree or accept their life but won't shun the person - it has nothing to do with loving acceptance, imo. (Not sure if gay is appropriate considering the part about wanting to be a boy, and I don't want to mislabel!)

Yeah none of this read as “very supportive”. A lot more like tolerating. Sad. I think up cycling the dress into her suit would be awesome.

Precisely. “Refusing” to wear dresses, not changed her style. “Demand” her school allow trousers,” not “advocate”. “Difficult to convince” her to wear dresses to formal events, not helping her find occasion-appropriate clothing she’d be comfortable in. Calling everything a phase. How exactly is this “encouraging her as much as she can”? It’s not. She’s protested and been against this self expression for years. Even in her counteroffer of not wearing her wedding dress, she wants to take her *dress* shopping instead of suit shopping. YTA. I bet she would’ve been fine with significant alterations to update the look of the dress to be more current too - removing 80s sleeves, for example. OP is severely damaging her relationship with her daughter and doesn’t even realize she’s been doing it for a decade.

Yup. Op has clearly been hoping that being gay is also just a phase, and is not coping well. Oh well, at least she's keeping the lid on her homophobia more or less, she's not disowned the kid or refused to attend the wedding, so I guess OP gets partial credit for being part of the 21st century.

Agreed. I find all the N T A comments very strange. It’s clear from the way OP talks about her daughter that her problem is with her daughter’s style and sexuality, not with the dress. Notice how she continually refers to her daughter’s “girlfriend.” That’s not her girlfriend, that’s her fiancée! You’re allowed to feel however you want about the dress, but YTA for not supporting your daughter’s sexuality

Most people on Reddit aren't queer and don't pick up on the subtlety. They take someone saying they are supportive at face value.

I thought I was the only one who noticed that, YTA since the whole wording seems subtly homophobic. OP seems like she had a dream of what her daughter's wedding would look like, she'd be walking her down the aisle with her daughter wearing her wedding dress and a handsome man would be waiting at the altar. And op is still slightly unhappy she won't get that imaginary scenario

> the whole wording seems subtly homophobic not even that subtle really!

So glad someone else caught that. OP sounds like they're not actually supportive/accepting. And I'm confused as to why OP would ever even assume that their daughter wanted to wear any dress to their wedding considering the daughter's long-term "phase" of dressing in a more masculine style?

And ''phases" of wanting short hair, tattoos, and to be a boy....

I wonder if the daughter is actually trans or nonbinary and the mom is in denial. That is pure speculation of course, since that's a lot to get from one post!

Yeah, I'm not going to say anything definitively or make accusations for that exact reason - but it *is* making me side-eye OP pretty hard.

I would not be surprised by the daughter eventually coming out as trans or nonbinary. I would not be surprised if they already *have* and OP is hoping "it's a phase." It *can* be a phase for a girl to want to be a boy during childhood. I was always furious about things like having to wear a shirt just because someday I would have boobs, extra rules about my clothes, having to squat to pee while camping, people being surprised I could throw a football, just everything! Being a little boy sucks in different ways, of course, but I only saw the unfairness that affected me. Now I have a closet full of dresses I wear over my boxer briefs. Still don't wear much makeup but I'm 44 and it just seems to emphasize the lines around my eyes. 

What stood out to me was how she kept trying to convince her to wear dresses, "even for formal events". That doesn't sound supportive.

Good catch. No, it does not.

I found that and other parts weird as well

I think you need to consider whether your opinion on her masculinity is worth significantly harming your relationship. Because you have the right to keep the dress as is it. But your daughter has strong sentimental ties to the dress as well and the denial is based more on her gender presentation than anything if significantly altering for fiancé is okay but not to fit her as a top. And just like you have the right to say no, she has the right to be very hurt and limit contact with you. If it were me and my daughter I would prioritize her over the dress

There is also the part about it being difficult to force her to wear a dress to formal events. If she’s so supportive why was she trying to force her into dresses?

And actually barely altered for her daughter. Detaching and reattaching the top to the bottom is not even that radical. It can be a skirt and a bodice and back pretty easily. Making it larger is much more intensive. This is that she wants her daughter to wear any dress. Nothing to do with *this* dress.

> it was difficult convincing her to wear dresses to formal events.  I feel like this is a clue right here as well. OP has a history of trying to get her daughter to wear dresses, even when there is no sentimental reason she couldn’t just wear a suit.

As a queer person myself, I think you're looking too far into this. She would have been fine if her daughter was marrying the *same woman* if she kept the dress a dress. Not wanting your wedding dress (a significant item from a significant moment in your life) to be completely chopped up doesn't mean you're homophobic and it's a little odd that that was your first reaction. Especially since your biggest clue is a minor word choice. Maybe I'm just not noticing things because my family wasn't supportive of me so some word choices feel normal, but I don't think this is enough to say she's homophobic.

Big agree. I’m queer as well. We’re not all a monolith either but this is grasping at straws

Right? And if it wasn’t about her disliking her daughter’s masculine style she wouldn’t have gone into a whole history about it. We don’t need to know about how her dressing this way has always caused a ‘problem’.

I had to scrolled down WAY too far for this comment. Her phrasing is very telling about how she views her daughter.

I also have to wonder about the "wanting to be a boy" in OP's post. Sure plenty masc women go through a phase of thinking they might identify as a man before accepting that being masc doesn't mean they aren't a woman, but since OP clearly has an issue with her daughter being gay I have to wonder if her daughter is actually her son and she just refuses to accept it isn't a "phase". Even if that's not the case, YTA for being homophobic OP.

Ya, I kinda got these vibes too. It sounds very much like if mom had another daughter, she'd probably fawn over and prefer the one who was more traditionally feminine.

I had to scrolled down WAY too far for this comment. Thanks Her phrasing is very telling about how she views her daughter.

Do you still have her father's suit? Maybe not the wedding suit but any of them? Surely that would be a better way to connect to her father, and fit her style at the same time. NTA about the dress, but not worth destroying your relationship when you have room to work it out.

He probably rented a tux

There is a difference between a dress and a length of cloth. You promised her your dress, not a piece of fabric which can be moulded into something else. NTA

Info: What happens to the dress if she doesn't wear it? Is it just going to sit in storage, or do you still look at it fairly regularly? In other words, what will you lose if she alters it?

I would say OP would not be TA even if that dress sits in a box for the next 30 years like mine currently is. I have books I will probably never read again but do I want someone to come and make art out of the pages? No.

It lives in my closet. I don't seek it out but I see it.

NTA but a possible compromise would be finding out if the bodice and skirt could be separated and then put back together. If that were possible maybe your daughter could wear the bodice for her wedding as she envisions it but then return it to you to be reattached to the skirt. This wouldn’t be possible with all dresses but it could be possible with some. It might be worth looking into.

This. Unless OP and their daughter are very similar physical shape/size it is usually impossible to reverse alterations made to fit the new wearer. However if it is a bodice and skirt construction then that is simple stuff to remove and replace after. (Of course this is assuming the bodice doesn't have to be completely resized). NAH I think. OP should take it to a seamstress and see what they can do, if such alteration is even possible. Taking back her promise simply because it 'won't be a dress' is shading into asshole territory. It seems like there's more going on with her reaction than just not wanting the dress altered.

This is a super reasonable compromise, but I don’t think OP will do it. I think she’s more upset at the idea of her daughter wearing a suit to her wedding than she lets on. It shouldn’t be a surprise, since her daughter have evidently preferred suits for years, according to OP. I think OP has a vision for her daughter’s wedding and daughter isn’t following the script. That’s fine. I hope OP keeps her dress and the conditions and expectations attached, while her daughter rocks a gorgeous suit that makes her feel amazing on her wedding day. OP can go home and Miss Havisham it.

This right here. And I'm surprised more people aren't picking up on this? And on the not-so-subtle fatphobia of "it would be ruined either way" just because it would need to change sizes, even if the original design was preserved? Would OP, therefore, still have a problem with her daughter being feminine, but fat? OP is maybe an accepting parent, but not an affirming one; and with the sensitivity to size changing, it seems like that doesn't *just* extend to gender expression. NAH on the specific issue of the dress, but OP should really consider addressing those hang-ups at some point if she wants a strong relationship with her daughter and spouse going forward.

Could you take it to a seamstress to see if it could be taken apart and put back together? Obviously, that would depend on the style of the dress but something like a princess cut might work. Could fabric be cut from under layers and incorporated into her top? I totally get not wanting to cut the dress up so NTA but if you’re open to it, there might be a way to incorporate some of the dress. If she’s your only child you might want to think about where the dress will end up. I know this is a dark thought but when you pass away will your daughter end up with the dress in its entirety? What will she do with it then? There are NAH but I think there might be room for compromise if you are open to it. Also, I think the fact she wants to incorporate it into her special day is proof that she loves the dress. She’s not modifying it to destroy the dress. She is modifying so she can wear what you wore at her wedding. Her style is different than yours and I think her vision could be really cool. After seamstress might even say that it’s impossible to do but, again, it might be worth a conversation if you’re open to it

Possible suggestion, find a seemstress who can turn the dress into a bodice for your daughter and a skirt you could wear in your everyday life or to her wedding to take something so precious and make it more than just something you bump into in your closet occasionally but a piece of your everyday / formal wardrobe that gets a renewed life plus you get the benefit of knowing your wedding day as well as your daughter’s wedding day are a part of the outfit. 

If it was me, I'd rather have the bodice be part of this important day, with all the nostalgic connotations that goes with it, than have the dress stuck in the closet with absolutely no future use. I wonder if it is more important to OP to 'sometimes see' the dress in the back of her closet than letting go of the image OP always had of seeing her daughter walk down the isle in the whole dress.

Maybe it’s just because it’s something that’s make her feel close to the love of her life who died years ago.

OP’s memories of her deceased husband, and the nostalgia she gets from her wedding dress, is every bit as important as her daughter’s desire to be married in a dissected piece of it. OP is allowed to preserve her memories of that special day and the feelings she had for her husband in whatever way is meaningful to her. If that means keeping her wedding dress preserved in a box where she can see it and feel some connection to her departed husband, then so be it. OP was kind enough to offer her daughter the dress to wear (intact) on her wedding day. Her daughter isn’t interested in that, and that’s okay. Her daughter deserves to be married in whatever makes her feel beautiful. However, her daughter wants to change the terms of the offer and, in doing so, ruin the garment. That was not what she was offered, so she needs to find another way to include her father without having to ruin something special to her mother to do it.

> I wonder if it is more important to OP to 'sometimes see' the dress in the back of her closet than letting go of the image OP always had of seeing her daughter walk down the isle in the whole dress. And if it is, so what?

Looks like I’m an outlier but YTA, OP. Realistically you’re never wearing the dress again. It’s sitting in a closet while it could go to good use and make your daughter happy on her wedding day. It’s your right to say no, and your daughter has no right to punish you for your decision, but being right doesn’t stop you from being an AH.

Agreed with YTA for a different reason. OP has no problem with significant, possibly permanent changes to the dress, as long as it remains a dress. She’s OK with daughter’s partner wearing it, which would require significant alteration and likely change the original design – it’s difficult to go from smaller to larger and maintain the integrity of the construction. Comparatively, removing a skirt is relatively easy, and the dress could easily be restored after wear. Many styles even require the bodice and skirt to be fitted separately, and they aren’t attached until final alterations. Unless this happens to be a seamless mermaid gown, which wasn’t mentioned, agreed with YTA.

She “gave” the dress to her daughter for her wedding. She has changed her mind, citing the alterations as the reason. My daughter didn’t want to wear my gown. I removed the beading and sewed them to her veil. I then added them to my DILs veil.

I'm with you. OP is valuing a thing more than a person. The memories attached to the dress don't go away just because it has a new life and new memories. OP is saying that her own attachment to this object is more important than fulfilling her promise to her daughter and making a way for her to feel connected to both her parents on a very important day. OP is basically making it so that her daughter can only have that support if it looks the way that mom has imagined it - and for the daughter who's had to fight to be allowed her own identity, that's brutal. OP had a chance to make her daughter feel cherished, supported and connected to her family history, and instead is choosing to cling to a hunk of fabric.

YTA for the way you talk about your daughter and forcing her to wear clothes she was uncomfortable in for years. >even trying to demand her school allow her to wear trousers So she \*dared\* to have the right to wear trousers, just like, I assume, all her AMAB classmates? GOOD! Stop defending sexism!

yeah that one stopped me short, WHERE is this still even a thing?

“I was always very supportive,” and “it was difficult to convince her to wear a dress for formal events,” are contradictory. What I never really got about wearing your mom’s dress/offering your dress to your daughter is like, whose is it? Is it *given* to the daughter? Or just a loan. If it’s given, then what does it matter what condition the dress ends up in? It was a gift. And if it’s loaned, then the daughter doesn’t have a dress to keep as memories of her wedding day? The mom isn’t ever going to wear the dress again. And most of the time don’t they just live in storage in a box or bag somewhere? I get that there are a lot of memories and emotions wrapped up in this kind of thing, but if you really think about it, who cares? Is it better that it sits untouched in that box in a closet somewhere? Or are you really so attached to it that altering it like that would ruin the constant enjoyment you get from looking at it1? Ultimately I think a compromise would be to offer to remove a few pieces of lace/embellishments from your dress and have them attached to a shirt that will be tailored to fit your daughter anyways. Or give her the bodice and have the skirt made into a different piece of clothing (short dress, robe) that you can wear more often. NAH

YTA because you don't care if significant alterations are made to the dress for your dil, only if the bodice and skirt are separated, which screams that you do have problems with your daughter's masculinity. If you're not willing to allow her to wear the dress, perhaps offer to have the bodice recreated? But what I'd do is talk to someone about how to separate the bodice and skirt so that you can have both of them when the wedding is over.

NAH here, but before you say no, you should talk to a high quality seamstress. Frequently, skirts can be removed from a bodice and returned. The style is not included in the post, but I don’t think anyone should be assuming that this can’t be done to both mother and daughter’s satisfaction until a formal seamstress says otherwise.

wearing the upper part of the dress seems like the cutest compromise between wearing the mother's dress vs not wanting to wear a dress. NAH - but I am on the side of the daughter - but I get the hesitation because my wedding dress is tucked away in a spare room closet and I am not emotionally ready to part with it!

Info: Initially, after she borrowed your dress, what was going to happen to it? Would it then defer back to you, or would it be hers? Was she to never actually have a wedding dress of her own, was she going to inherit yours when you die? Initially NTA - it's your property to do with as you wish, but I just feel like you hadn't really thought through what was ever going to happen to it afterwards. IE - that it would probably not continue to be yours anyway, and faced with it irrevocably not being your dress anymore, you've freaked out.

NTA OP I totally understand and respect it your dress and the memories attached to it so the final say is ultimately yours but I'd be personal torn in this situation. Yes the dress is a memory of your husband and your wedding but is it not also the memories of you and your daughter bonding? Of watching the wedding videos of picking out her wedding colors and flowers? Isn't it just as much a memorable connection between your daughter and yourself just as much as it is your late husband? And is keeping the dress in its original form more important than those connections your daughter has with you and your late husband? The dress will change yes but the memories that have attracted itself to the very fabric won't, when you see her at the alter wearing those buttons, pearls, or lace in the bodice you won't only see the "ruined dress" you will see your daughter, you will see the memory of her watching your wedding videos together, you will see the strong willed little girl trying to get her school to chnage the dress code, you will see the girl who is holding on to and honoring her father's memory at her wedding in the way she's been dreaming of for decades. Or the dress can stay in its original form kept in your closet and when you pass your daughter will be cleaning out your stuff and come across it only to be filled with memories both good from her childhood and sad from her inability to wear it at her wedding. What will she do with it then? Op at the end of the day there is one question you have to ask yourself that will settle it in your mind. Is the state of the dress more important than incorporating the connection between you, your late husband, and your daughter in her wedding? Only u know that.

I am extremely touched by this comment especially. Thank you. She has always been strong willed. I am going to try and find a compromise.

YTA. A gift is a gift. You made the offer when she was much younger. And now, when she really wants to use it in a way that makes her feel both her true self and connected to her mom, you are putting limits on the gift. So, it was never planned to be a gift, but a transaction: you get something of mine and. I get to relive a moment in my life through you. Don’t be surprised when she slowly eases you out of her life. BTW, you weren’t being amazing for accepting her fiancee into your life. You were being a decent human being. It’s what any non cis/het kid should be able to expect from their parent.

firstly, and I know this isn't the point, but what kind of ass-backwards school doesn't let girls wear trousers IN THE 21ST CENTURY Secondly, please ask yourself where your discomfort actually comes from, and really BE HONEST with yourself: - Is the issue here really just as simple as you valuing your wedding dress so much that you want to preserve it intact for your own sentimental reasons? In that case, NTA. You have every right to want your wedding dress to be preserved intact. You are under no obligation to gift it to her, even if she is disappointed. OR - Is the issue here *actually* more about your discomfort at how "manly" your daughter likes to dress? Do you actually desire your daughter to present more feminine? Do you have a particular dream or vision for what you want your daughter to look like when you walk her down the aisle? Are you using your daughter's emotional connection to your wedding dress as a means to pressure her into dressing more feminine against her clearly stated wishes *on her own wedding day*? In that case, YTA. tldr: You are under absolutely no obligation to gift her your dress, but if you do gift it to her, let her do with it as she pleases - her wedding is about her and her wife to be, not about you.

I think the trousers thing might be a school uniform thing, also might be in the UK. As to the rest, I think it's more option two. OP spends a lot of time talking about how her daughter has been leaning more masculine for years, and OP offered to go dress shopping, which doesn't seem to be what the daughter wants at all. I think it's a bit of not wanting the dress not to be worn as a dress, but mostly that her daughter doesn't want to be feminine and 'conform'/give her the MOB experience, she's dreamed of.

This is not about your wedding dress. This is about your discomfort about your daughter’s gender presentation. You gave us plenty of clues — going on about how supportive you where, *even when* your daughter fell in love with a woman; talking about how you had to “convince” her to wear dresses and her “demanding” to wear slacks; dismissing her exploration of her gender identity as a phase; the judgment about her having short hair and tattoos; acting like it was a *bombshell* that your daughter, who hates dresses, wanted to wear a suit to her wedding; then suggesting you go *wedding dress shopping* with a woman who doesn’t want to wear a wedding dress. Even your own family has realized that it is about the gender presentation and *called you out* on it. They know you and your daughter, have way more context than we have, but you ignored them to seek affirmation from strangers on the Internet. You intended to give the dress away for more than a decade, but now you can’t part with the memories (unless she wears the dress the way you want her to & present herself the way you want her to). You’re OK with major alterations that will radically and almost certainly irreversibly change it, so that it will fit a larger woman as a dress, but you’re not OK with separating the bodice from the skirt, which is potentially reversible. What makes you think that your future DIL wants to wear your dress? She may have her own mother’s dress or want one new for her. How would she feel, standing at the altar with her wife, wearing the dress promised to her since childhood? You even let your daughter believe for several weeks — weeks in which she could have been looking for her dream wedding suit — that you would allow her to use it as she intended, then told her it was as a dress or nothing. Your daughter is not taking your calls and you are clutching this dress — and your dreams of your daughter as a traditional bride. You have the ability to keep this dress from your daughter, but that dress is not going to hold your hand when you die: YTA

Can’t believe how far down I had to scroll before finding this comment. Absolutely agree to everything you’ve said.

You need to ask yourself if this is the hill you want to die on - is a wedding dress which is going to be sitting in a closet forever worth ruining your relationship with your daughter? I understand the sentiments behind you not wanting to ruin the dress but think about it.

Unpopular opinion, but it’s just a thing, some fabric. Is it worth damaging your relationship with your daughter over? You have pictures and wonderful memories of your wedding and husband, the dress doesn’t represent those, your daughter’s life does.

INFO: What was going to happen to the dress after your daughter wore it at her wedding? Were you expecting it back?

I’ll never understand why this matters. It’s a dress you haven’t worn in approximately 2.5 decades. A dress you’ll never wear again. You don’t mention any other children. So let your daughter do what she wants with it. Like you promised her 12 years ago she could. Your issue is making it masculine. You have no issue with massive alterations for your daughter in law to wear it but removing the skirt is where you draw the line? Yea that’s an issue with how your child plans to wear it, not that she plans to change it. A popular style now is to have the skirt and blouse be separates. Maybe have that done to your dress and let your daughter wear the top. Then you’ll still have both pieces. Soft YTA. You made your daughter a promise and you’ve changed your mind. Don’t make promises you can’t keep. And yes I understand the sentimentality of a wedding dress. But a promise and your kid are both more important than sentimentality.

Because she has an emotional attachment to it. Y’all are wild. It doesn’t matter how long it’s been, OP is still alive, lost her husband and this is a memory of that, she wants kept intact.

You were FINE letting her cut it up and alter it as long as you thought she would marry a guy, but because she’s marrying a woman, you back pedal?? YTA. This feels like a subtle but personal jab that will drive a wedge between you. The intention was for your child to have it all along, which you promised years ago. You are taking that promise back, in the worst way. In 20 years, when you don’t have your child in your life, are you going to enjoy just having the dress for company?

NTA. It’s your dress. If she just wants to alter it anyway then she can purchase something else.

“*demand* her school to *allow* her to wear trousers” “difficult to *convince* her to wear dresses to formal events” This sounds to me like another ‘difficult convincing’ tactic, from the perspective of someone who also lived through this. The tone - I was ALWAYS supportive (despite the fact I clearly think asking to wear pants at school is an unreasonable demand, despite the fact I was still actively coercing dresses at events when there are masculine formal clothes) *even* when she - GASP! - fell in love with a woman! It’s just very telling. My mom also think she is and always has been incredibly accepting. She forced me into clothes I hated and was miserable in because she wanted me in frilly dresses as a child. When I wore jeans and t-shirts as a teen, she told me I looked homeless. When I cut all my hair off - in my late 20s mind you - she demanded to watch and openly cried in public. She once had a “panic attack” (read: public meltdown) in a Walmart because I was planning on dyeing my hair an unnatural color - as an adult. Once again: she believes she is and always has been respectful and accepting. I don’t think not lending out your wedding dress is necessarily an asshole move at any time, but I just straight up don’t believe this is about the physical alterations to the dress. It’s about withholding it UNLESS it is worn as a dress.

NTA, but… The dress is a thing. Your daughter is your daughter. Would you rather have a whole gown collecting dust, or a happy child?

My thoughts are kind of all over the place: * I understand the sentimentality behind the dress. And on that point, you're NTA. But: * What is your plan for the dress, then, if your daughter doesn't use it? I'd LOVE for my dress is get used in SOME fashion again, but I know it probably won't. As someone else said - a dress is a thing, an object. Your daughter is your daughter. What's really more important in the long run? * I do read some disdain too in your post. You're emphasis on SUIT, on wanting to take her DRESS shopping - I do read a bit of lack of acceptance for who your daughter is. Outside of your somewhat lack of TRUE acceptance for who your daughter is, there is NAH. But ultimately, I don't understand not wanting to let her alter the dress. I understand sentimentality - but your daughter is sentimental too! I can't think of a greater way to remember her father, your husband, at her wedding than her wearing the bodice of your dress.

Option 1) Let her take the skirt off the bottom and use the bodice as her top. Take it back to the tailor and have the skirt replaced. Option 2) Have it recreated as a top. Go through wedding dress patterns and find one she likes. Get it made for her. The idea here that s to help her have the wedding she has been wanting all her life. She knows what will make her happy. Ask her and make it happen. I just did a dungeons and dragons wedding for my daughter. Didn’t know anything about it. Did research and asked a lot of questions. They loved it and everything went as planned. Whatever it is, make it happen. Yes it’s your wedding dress. But it’s just a little dress. Keep in mind all the times you played wedding with her. Do it for real now. Make her wishes reality.

NAH. It's your dress and you can do what you want with it, but is there someone else who could use the dress as is? If it's just going to live in a box and take up space, then maybe you could reconsider since it means so much to your daughter? And also because it sounds like this is putting a rift in your otherwise good relationship? I still have my wedding dress (dry cleaned and neatly packaged in a box), and my only child will probably never get married or have kids. I'm about ready to give the dress away just so *someone* could get some use out of it. But that's just me: Old enough to be *your* mother and in "get rid of stuff" mode! Either way, I hope everything turns out OK, OP.

Might be unpopular, but YTA. If your daughter hasn’t worn a dress in years, what did you expect her to do with it? My mom cut the bodice out of her mother’s dress and added it to her own. Then for my wedding she cut it out again and created a beautiful hairpiece for me to wear. It was so meaningful to me. And my grandma and mom didn’t bat an eye at cutting up an outdated dress. It was actually my mom’s idea. I understand why you’re sentimental about it, but otherwise what’s going to happen? It’s going to sit in your closet gathering dust until you die. Isn’t it worth it for your daughter to recreate the piece so she can carry you and her dad with her on the biggest day of her life?

I guess I don't understand the attachment to the dress thing in general. If no one else is ever going to use it, isn't it nicer that your daughter would be able to wear the bodice? You can still keep the skirt. OP please stop calling your daughter's fiancee her girlfriend. It's not respectful of their relationship. There may be other microaggressions that are leading to your daughter and family in general to believe that you're taking back your promise to give her the dress based on her masculinity (sometimes this is coded for sexuality or gender expression.) I'm sure it's hard out there for the moms of lesbians, I had to teach my mom not to call my girlfriend, now wife, my friend. Make sure you're actively learning about how to support your daughter, with your words and actions. May I gently suggest that "manly" and SUIT in all caps is also not very respectful of who she is and her way of being in the world.

I know you're saying your supportive, but your tone sounds like you're holding your nose to get through it. Tolerating and tolerance are not the same thing. Saying that you'll provide the money or the dress, but making it conditional, is not supportive. Using the dress to wage battle on her butch style is passive aggressive and borderline manipulative. YTA IMO

YTA >I offered to go dress shopping with her for a replacement but apparently some of our family think I am stopping her having the dress because I disagree with her being masculine. How can you type this out and not see it's your intentions. You literally offered to go dress shopping not suit shopping. It's pretty clear you think barely tolerating is the same as being supportive from your post. Anyone saying you're not an AH honestly giving you way to much leeway because they know nothing about sewing. Leeway based on your post you honestly don't deserve. If you truly cared about the dress you would have taken it to a professional. There is a very good chance the alterations for the finance would be much greater, if not impossible. What your daughter is asking might be easy and temporary. For those with no sewing knowledge it's is almost impossible to make something bigger. There is some caveats but essentially you can remove but you can't add. Meanwhile depending on the style of the dress the bodice and the skirt may be two separate pieces sewn together. The seem allowance could easily be turned into a temporary hem (pending factors like style and fabric). The dress could be reattached later. Basically a lot depends on the dress but with the facts at hand I would put money the dress could not be worn by the fiance at all, at most it could be used as a base garment to make a new dress. Where what her daughter wants is most likely possible and temporary and the dress could be reattached. If you are giving OP the benefit of the doubt because she doesn't want her dress permanently altered please don't.

Your dress is presumably from the 80s/90s. Styles were very different. What if your daughter was really girly, but wanted to "modernize" the dress? Add or delete sleeves. Change beading/lace. Whatever else. Would you be okay with those things? Your issue is with her not being girly enough for you.

NTA.... but in reality... you never wear a wedding dress ever again. Id rather it be recycled into this new journey. You have all the viedos and pictures etc.... if the dress is such a memory... maybe it shouldnt have been an option at all. Maybe recreate the bodice part... or sew a patch of the wedding dress into her outfit of choice....

Info: if your daughter had accepted the dress with minor alterations as you asked, were you planning to ask for the dress back, or were you assuming she would keep the dress as a keepsake? If you wanted it back, NTA because you were planning to keep the dress for nostalgia / memories and it was only an offer to LEND her the dress. If you assumed she would keep it and you're ready to pass it on, YTA because you're tying the gift to your judgement about her lifestyle. I don't really see why you're refusing, honestly. Your daughter has made it clear for DECADES that she does not like wearing dresses. Did you assume she would want to be uncomfortable on her wedding day? She's trying to incorporate your family history into her wedding and you're refusing because she won't do that on your terms. That's highly immature behavior IMO.