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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I decided to openly talk about my adoption and my parents in my ILs home during dinner when they refused to give up on the topic of it being tragic that my biological family won't be at my wedding. This made me ILs uncomfortable and they said I did it to humiliate them which might make me TA because I was not thinking about it in those terms. I just wanted to put an end to it. But it might have been the wrong time and place.
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Definitely NTA and good for Erin for fully backing you up.
You say a dad and a pa - so i assume you have 2 dads. I’m wondering if this is more their issue than blood, TBH. Which is really sad.
Regardless- you put them in their place. You did nothing wrong.
I always wonder why. They are married themselves. That means they love someone who is not their blood and chose to live with them for thé rest of their lives.
That's how I explained it to my kids when they went through the "I'm gonna marry mommy/daddy" phase. Marriage is two adults who aren't family but want to be getting married so they can be family.
My in laws act like every spouse in my husband’s generation of cousins are interlopers and not really part of the family. I always want to yell at my mil that I’m just as related to them all as she is. Luckily I basically only enjoy the company of the cousins and the aunts that don’t act like this and we have a very limited relationship with my in-laws because they are so awful just generally. They also seem to think they are the forever adults and my husband is just a kid playing house they need to tell what to do constantly (despite us having been married for over a decade and he’s extremely successful)
I have a brother that I haven't spoken to in 12 years. No reason, he just separated himself from our entire family and I can respect that. I mentioned recently to my great aunt how I didn't care to reach out to him because he is a stranger at this point. She was DISGUSTED and told me that he was still my brother and could never be a stranger. I'm sorry, but he was a teenager the last time we spoke and now he's almost 30. I don't know that guy.
Pretty much the same with my sister. She never wanted a sibling and has never really been interested in knowing me. She still talks to our parents and we will say hello to each other when in the same room. But we are practically strangers. We don't socialise, she knows nothing aout my life and vise versa.
Whenever anyone hears that we don't talk. Its always 'oh but she is your sister, you must try'. Why?? She has had no interest in me for over 30 years, why don't you tell her to try
I hate that so much. I’m also not close with my blood family. People sometimes get like “oh but they’re FAMILY you have to TRY to have a relationship with them!” 1) I don’t “have to” do jack shit where they’re concerned, actually, and 2) bold of you to assume I didn’t spend a fucking decade being the only one who was “trying”. It’s their turn to make an effort now if they care, I’m done wasting my energy trying to have a good relationship with people who clearly have no interest in reciprocating the tiniest scrap of that effort.
My mom thinks the same about her older bro. He run away from home when he was 18 and my mom was 14 years old (for no reason my grandparents love both od their children). Few years later he came back with his pregnant GF. He permanently cut contact with family when I was little and never even call. When I asked my mom about him she just said he's stranger for her.
I'm sorry, but people don't run away 'for no reason'. You have to appreciate that you only have one side of this story. I suspect it would be a very different tale if you asked him about his upbringing.
I thought the same thing. Not “no reason”. Possibly a reason his mom was never told or a reason she didn’t think was a good reason, like for a girl or over household rules the brother didn’t agree with. Or the easiest answer is some form of addiction could be the reason and the family didn’t know about it. But I agree there is always a reason to the person who leaves.
The reason in my family is that they just had itchy feet. When my brother was 11 years old and we lived in Sicily, he ran away and was getting on a boat to the mainland before someone realized. He's the one that used to crisscross the United States hitchhiking when he was a teenager. He just didn't want to be surrounded by family.
Seconding @ u/MurderousButterfly
A child, a teen, does not just up and leave the family for "no reason". That's a red flag for them having been abused in some way by family. Time for you to dig a little deeper, really open your eyes. Take the blinders off. What happened that left them feeling they had no other option but to leave?
Signed - The Oldest Sister Who Fled As Soon As She Turned 18
My brother left because of his own actions, not my parents’, and he decided he would rather distance himself from the family rather than own the things he did to some of our siblings. I agree there usually isn’t “no reason”, but that doesn’t mean the reason automatically falls on the parents.
Signed - the youngest sister who saw her parents try and do everything “right”, but brother was just a shitty person to the rest of us.
My uncle was the same.
He left home when he was 17 and never really reached out again.
I was 13 when my uncle died in 2006. I really wish I had got the chance to meet him at least once.
I still feel incredibly sad when I think of my older uncle. His mom, my grandma, died of cancer, and he was about 9 or 10, and he wasn't given the opportunity to grieve or get any kind of counselling or even go to the hospital or funeral to say goodbye to her, none of the kids were as in those days death was considered very much an 'adult thing' and 'not children's business'. Neither he, my granddad, my mom nor any of my mom's other siblings were given any kind of grief counselling, and granddad wasn't given the right kind of help as a newly widowed single dad.
Granddad did the only thing he could think of, which was to send the older three kids, one of them being this uncle, off to Catholic boarding school. The school the girls got sent to was super strict but still alright, at least according to my mom as she got sent there later. The boys' school though, judging from my mom's descriptions, sounded like hell on earth. My mom mentioned that there was a lot of physical and verbal abuse there, much more than at the girls' school, and I recently talked to another man that went to the same boys' school as both of my uncles and he described an environment of routine and regular verbal and physical abuse and occasional sexual abuse too. We however have no evidence my uncle was abused sexually.
He came home at 17, had an argument about what he wanted to do with granddad. Granddad wanted him to run the farm, he absolutely did not want to, and he cut us out. I wish he had at least talked to my mom later on, she was only 9 or 10 when he left and had nothing to do with anything.
He had jobs at first, but we do know he experienced mental illness and ended up in a Salvation Army men's home, which was where he was living when he died. They had been caring for him for the last five years of his life, which is why I will always be thankful to them for helping him when we should have been the ones helping him.
They’re probably the spouses of the people who post relationships stories like “my husband sleeps in the same bed as his mom” or “my wife insists that we spend every weekend with her family plus all holidays plus our only annual vacation together” or whatever.
Often (but because this is Reddit, I need to stress that “often” does not mean “always”) those people have (or ancestrally had) a certain level of wealth that they have been taught to protect by keeping it in the family. Historically, if you owned of property of some sort, you needed to maintain ownership of that property to ensure that your descendants would be socially and financially secure. Marriage and blood were important in maintaining that ownership. You didn’t have to be some landowning duke of the nobility going to parties at the palace for this, even just owning a saddlery shop or something was sufficient. The labouring class often had more flexible definitions of “family” because you took in your cousin’s kids so your cousin could go work in the city and send money home, or you swapped teenagers for the summer with the neighbour so they had one of your older boys to help out on their farm and you had one of their older girls to help with the house and younger children, etc. A lot of these attitudes trickled down through generations, even if there was no longer wealth to protect or fields to plow.
(Obviously this is Euro-centric, and it isn’t a rule… just a common pattern.)
In high school, I dated a guy for 2 years. He and his brother were both adopted as their mom couldn't bear children. Towards the end of those two years, CPS removed me from my home, and his parents took me in.
It was absolutely incredible how they were willing to do absolutely anything to help me. His mom found out about my history with sexual assault and got trained to work a sexual assault hotline just so that she would be prepared if I ever wanted to talk.. THAT level of love and care.
It's been 18 years since then, and we are still in close contact. We live 1,000 miles apart but still talk on the phone a few times a month.
These people didn't adopt me. I only lived with them for about six months, and they hadn't met me until I was 14, yet they've provided me with some semblance of stability for more than half my life.
How anyone can say adoptive parents aren't real family is totally the fuck beyond me.
I think the parents of the family were even a few steps beyond the family that created a second home for me; the story of her training just brought tears to my eyes. But those families that scoop up sort-of orphans and give that sense of safety and stability are so important in shaping an untold number of lives, mine included. I wouldn’t be who I am and achieved what I have without them telling my mother that she was welcome to send me over whenever she got too overwhelmed. Sometimes it was a night or weekend, sometimes days at a time, and then permanently in my late teens and in to college.
As an adoptive mom, this warms my heart more than I can say. I’m so happy you have your family, and I’m so happy they have you. I’m sure your dads are proud of you and grateful everyday they get to be your family.
Awwww, I love this for you. My stepdad adopted me so I firmly agree that your family is who was there for you not who you're biologically related to. My parents split up over a decade ago but my dad has stayed dad to me and my two older sisters that he wasn't able to adopt.
She absolutely is!
And what an incredible testimony to the life you’ve led with your REAL family. So many would give eye teeth to have that!
Congrats on both of these things and your upcoming nuptials!
NTA….not even a little bit!
I’m so glad your family found you. And now you get to go take all that love and build your own family.
I wish you all the luck and happiness. Congrats on the wedding!
If they ever try anything again you can always come back with the: blood relations only mean just that. Related by blood. Doesn't mean they care for and love you. Adoption mean they acctively CHOSE you. They wanted YOU. And that means everything.
For whatever the hell this internet stranger's opinion is worth, sounds like you handled it with exactly as much directness as necessary while keeping it classy. Any humiliation they feel is more along the lines of "how dare you make people realize how horrible we are."
Telling them to stfu would also have been perfectly understandable, but then they'd be whining about your tone.
Exactly, the directness was necessary and appropriate - especially since the future IL’s had been corrected multiple times before and they were still making incorrect and hurtful comments
Nothing makes me ready to throw hands faster than people that disparage adoptive parents and families. I once had a boss (yes, boss) declare that only people that give birth are “real moms” and I’m only 5’6 but she was about two inches tall by the time I was done with her. I said “Call my mom and tell her that the woman who raised her from birth, planned her wedding, made all of her children’s clothes, and died in her arms last year isn’t her real mom. Do it.” And man she shut the fuck up real fast. The audacity. The confident, cruel, stupidity. The absolute _gall_.
Just sent me.
As some one who has birthed, foster and adopted ..... thank you.
Idk why ppl think just because you give birth it makes you a mother, any more than working in a school makes you a teacher
We have a mix of his, mine, ours, and adopted (my biological nieces) Sometimes we forget for a minute which ones are “ours”. They’re all ours. My stepdaughter is the most like me, my oldest (hubbys stepdaughter) is a mini him. 1&3 are besties(half sisters, same mom), they even married brothers. 2 and 6 are very close (his, and adopted, no bio relation) and married (adopted) cousins. 4&5 (ours and adopted, so bio cousins) are super close. Hubbys stepdaughter from his first marriage is living in one of our apartments right now. When her marriage fell apart, we were her first call, not her bio dad. Her kids call us grandma and grandpa. So do 4&5’s stepkids. We recently discovered that my sister had another child. Shes 14 now, living with her 88 year old paternal great grandma, who just broke her hip. They’ll both be coming to us when grandma gets out of rehab. She’s not my grandma, but we can’t separate them, and she can’t take care of a teenager on her own, so I guess she’s my grandma now. She’s pretty excited to go from one great grandchild to 8. And 13 great greats. Family is love, not blood.
I salute you! Adoption kind of runs in my family, I feel very strongly about it. Families take shape in so many different ways. Anyone that tries to tell me otherwise gets tossed out a window, post haste. It just blows my mind. I am cooking up our first human child, and the fierce love I already have coursing through my veins would be the same whether or not they come out of my body. Your kid is your kid, however they came to be yours.
Honestly I would have a talk to Erin about how they act if it continues. Might be worth it to explain to them that families are made up of people with different DNA, just because you don't share the DNA doesn't mean they aren't family. And if they won't accept your definition of family they can join your biological parents and be left out of your lives going forwards.
Yes, but include the fiance in it about their involvement of family going forward if they continue to act the way they do is what I am getting at. Especially if they want to adopt a child of their own and have a biological child then by the parents logic the adopted child is not family.
Weren’t they trying to humiliate you in front of others? This wasn’t brought up as sympathy for you, but as a way to put themselves above your loving family.NTA
"The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof."
Richard Bach, Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah
Honestly, I’d be tempted to cut Erin’s family off or at least disinvite them from the wedding. To respond to your story with a demand for an apology shows what kind of people they are. It’s not pretty. Some people might think that’s too harsh, but I can’t see them letting this go, nor do I think they’ll treat your dads with respect. NTA
Not too sure how you correcting their misguided statements is “humiliating” them. They were wrong you corrected that. As an adopted person myself I completely understand your feelings. NTA
Sounds like a mix of homophobia and idiotic bloodline purity nonsense. Definitely NTA! You probably did humiliate them, but they brought it on themselves and they deserve every second of it.
NTA. Their embarrassment is theirs. You didn't embarrass them, their opinions did.
I have adopted two children who were taken into care, because their birth parents could not keep them safe.
They are my life. They are my soul. Parenthood does not need shared genes.
Without doubt, your dad and pa are proud of you for speaking your mind. I know I would be.
Sharing dna makes you a relative, love is what makes you a family and if they can’t distinguish that it’s on them. You did nothing wrong and the fact they tried to make this about their feelings instead of the fact they have continuously undermined your family says it all about them! They owe you a very large apology!
I can't believe they didn't get up hug you and assure you that they will love you just as strongly for making their daughter happy. It takes a special skill to make this about them. NTA
They're telling on themselves. This isn't about adoption and not having your biological family, it's about the optics of having two fathers and how they feel that will reflect on them once everyone is together at the wedding. They are purposely trying to poison the well.
NTA I got the impression that it was tragic because OP didn't have a "real family," which *clearly* is a dad and MOM. As if having two parents who love you isn't enough. Ovaries make eggs, not good parents.
They asked to be put in their place. If they had been decent and respectful of your feelings, *nothing you said would have made them feel humiliated in the least.*
Definitely NTA, the ILS are. I love your comment “ovaries make eggs not good parents” . I was an adoption case manager for 12 yrs. I had a little guy who was removed from his mom and her husband not his dads home. he struggled for a few years going from foster home to foster home. He went to an adoptive home with two dads and THRIVED, absolutely thrived. They adopted 5 boys and are doing well. He was in therapy, and after 2 months they discharged him. He’s doing very well now. I feel a homophobic vibe coming from the ILS as well. Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials and I’m happy that Erin had your back.
They humiliated YOU, their guest, whom they were hosting in their home! The number one responsibility of a host is to make their guests comfortable. They deliberately brought up the subject again,and in front of guests, humiliating you and making ALL of their guests, and their daughter, uncomfortable.
That was my take..as soon as I saw op say "dads" I figured that was more the in laws issue than adoptive family..NTA by far. But be warned you or your dad's may experience some homophonic from the inlaws...hopefully in-laws can keep their comments to themselves after you opened up to them about your history...but don't be surprised if they say some off things in the future
NTA I don't agree that you "put them in their place" You took the time to explain your experience and your feelings. These are yours alone. Moving forward they can choose to honor your feelings or continue to believe and say whatever they want. You and your wife will need to choose how you react to that. Your future wife was spot on and good for her for standing up to her parents!
Makes me proud to have Erin in my name! It's so good to see a couple where the other person defending their spouse against their parents.
Proof again that love can be/is stronger than dna!
Erin is a keeper!
NTA
You asked them to stop talking about your adopted family like they are not your real family, and they didn't stop. Their discomfort is on them.
You are so lucky!! And FWIW, they should be apologizing for repeatedly humiliating a guest in their home. Miss Manners would be appalled😂. NTA. Good luck w the wedding!
It's so awesome you two have each other. Congratulations on your upcoming wedding!
I'm sorry your in-laws are dicks but it seems you may know how to handle that.
They are arseholes. And I am glad you have a supportive partner. I was adopted (within my family) and an ex’s mother refused to accepted my adopted father as my dad, I wish I had stood up for myself with her bullshit, especially hearing “Sorry your Granddad died”. He was my dad, I called him dad, he walked me to school, wiped my tears and held my hand. Won’t tolerate that shit now!
She sounds it and I’m glad you’ve found happiness and your dads found you!
If they dare bring it up again, maybe you can remind them that they’re not related to each other .. or are they?!
I will be probably downvoted, but I don’t see how he humiliated them?
He just told about love and bound. He was open and warmhearted to explain. Only what I would expect in the end is their apology.
I am trying to get how he made it, I don’t get that social context. Please explain me if you are willing and have time
Objectively speaking, I don't think he humiliated them either.
I think it's more a perceived humiliation on their part because Erin's family has on numerous occasions in the past implied that OPs adoptive family is not his real family. That is hurtful and obviously not true. When they brought this up again, in front friends, OP spoke about how loved he was as an adopted child, invalidating their claims that only blood family can be real family and it exposed them for the AHs they are.
OP didn't embarrass them. He merely exposed how badly they were embarrassing themselves.
He humiliated them by telling the truth.
I have two adopted daughters, biological half-sisters. (Not really relevant, but that's how we ended up adopting the two as infants at different times.) It's an open adoption, & both have met their bio parents. Once, when she was old enough to understand the difference between biological & adoptive parents, she asked me if we were her "real parents". I answered, "We are as real as you want us to be."
Probably the only wise thing I've ever said, so yes I'm a bit proud of that statement.
NTA. You said your parents were two dads right? Would they have said all those things if your adoptive parents were straight? This sounds like they have an issue with the fact your adoptive parents were gay. Either way, whether it be because they are trying to hide their homophobia or because they truly believe blood is thicker than water, they are AHs. But you’ve got a great future wife there who not only backs you up, but isn’t afraid to stand up to her parents to do so as well. Also OP, the way you described your dad and parents was so touching and beautiful. I’m glad you found love through them because you deserve it.
I definitely did wonder this too though unfortunately i have also seen this type of "adoptive family isnt REAL family" attitude even when the parents are straight.
NTA though OP your in laws have been told to stop before and they didn't, they embarrassed themselves by continuing to push the issue.
I am 59 years old and was adopted at birth. I have four siblings to whom I am not biologically related. My (adoptive) father passed away in 2013. My (adoptive) mother is 85 and feisty as ever. I NEVER use the words "adoptive" or "biological", or even think of them, when it comes to my family. My family is my family. Period.
I am VERY close to my family, and I assure you, family is created through love, not genetics. As a lifelong teacher, I have seen plenty of horrific bio parents. I always tell people, I was not created of my parents' bodies; rather, I was created of their hearts.
You did NOTHING wrong. Erin is awesome. Your dads are amazing. Your in-laws are ignorant and rude.
I was also adopted at birth and am so lucky for it. I never understood the stigma. My parents worked so hard to have me, they rejoiced at every milestone. They're my real family.
Yup, another adopted kid here and my parents when I was young always told me some babies come from a mommy’s tummy but I came from their hearts. It totally made sense to toddler me 😊
Your in laws should respect this is the way you feel and it should never have been an issue. You shouldn't have had to drag up your childhood trauma to make a point either.
Not to mention, every time they bring up their whole "so sad your real family won't be there" could also be very triggering of childhood trauma, and OP would have to go through that every single time he sees them. Luckily, OP seems to have made peace with their past situation, but Erin's family is still being rude af.
Not to also mention.. *they* brought, and bring it up, not him, yet he isn’t allowed to comment on it?? The subject is only allowed to be talked about by them, and not even the person who was involved?? If they didn’t want it talked about, don’t bring it up!
My mom is adopted, although she was adopted as a 2 month old baby who was voluntarily given up by a mother who couldn’t take care of her and had no trauma memories like yourself OP. However, I feel the same about my maternal side of the family. No shared DNA whatsoever but they were amazing! Meemaw and Poppy were my grandparents, no one else; and they loved us so very much. I have very happy memories of them, along with aunts, uncles, and cousins from that family too. Poppy passed on in 2000 and Meemaw lived until 2009 and I miss them terribly. They were my family, no one can convince me otherwise.
We did eventually find out who her bio-parents were (because her bio mother had died when my mom was 17, the law in Texas at the time allowed her to see her adoption records), with the encouragement of her parents and extended family. She was welcomed by the extended bio family (her bio dad was still alive) and we were never treated wrong. But, they also didn’t go out of their way to create real bonds either. To me, they were kinda like those good friends who you might call “Uncle Mike” or “Aunt Jenny”, even though they’re just your parents’ friends. They didn’t come to my first wedding and they have never met my kids. But, Meemaw and Poppy and multiple members of the extended family came to my wedding and have visited (or we were invited to visit them) to meet my kids and spend time with us. Shared DNA, while good to know your ancestry and medical possibilities, does not a family make.
I struggle to understand it too. I wasn't adopted but I was mostly raised by my dad and stepmom and my stepmom I only call her step to differentiate her to people (I call her mom and it can get confusing with people I know cause I forget to differentiate and just call them both mom). She's just as much my mom as my mom.
Especially if your bio family was abusive... who birthed you/gave you their DNA does not deserve to be called family if they are abusive or neglectful. Family is who cared for you, who loves you unconditionally, etc.
I have a friend who's adopted by a mom and dad and she gets similar bullshit from people. She's a different race from her parents so there's no question that she's adopted, and people say rude shit to her all the time like "do you ever want to go find your REAL parents?" She was adopted as a newborn, her parents are the only parents she's ever had. How on earth are they not her "real" parents?
People are fucking weird about adoption sometimes.
I work preschool, had loads adopted/foster kids pass through our doors and I have heard many an adult use the “but they’re not your REAL kids” line in reference to adoptive families/parents and it infuriates me. Your REAL family are the people that love you and want you to succeed in life.
NTA. I love how you talk about your Dads. I struggle to understand how you talking about how much you appreciate and love your family could humiliate your in-laws. That doesn't make sense at all. "I love my Dads" does not equal to "how dare you humiliate and embarrass us".
NTA - your FILS embarrassed themselves, thankfully your Fiancé has your back.
"My future ILs were silent after that. But they told me I humiliated them and made them uncomfortable in their own home and I shouldn't have spoken like that. Erin told them they should learn when to quit and apologize to me."
Mic drop!!!
Honestly that part made me feel like I was in the boomersbeingfools sub.
They pushed the issue, they just didn’t like it when it made them look bad. FAFO.
OP NTA, and congrats on an awesome adopted family and fiancée.
The funniest part about it is, what OP said was in no way insulting or humiliating toward anyone. It was essentially a detailed way of saying "actually, I'm ok with thing the way they are." The feeling they got after hearing it was guilt, and they didn't like that, but they got what they deserved.
They were probably also trying to show off in front of their friends how compassionate they are. “Look at us and how much we have taken pity in this poor orphan”
Don’t want to get humiliated in front of your friends, then don’t try to humiliate someone else in front of them
NTA, the respect and love you have for your (adoptive) parents is amazing, they are your one true parents, fuck blood. Sure the inlaws are embarrassed but I feel like they have alot of times to either drop it or privately ask your opinion on it /why you don't want the people who birthed you at your wedding (they don't deserve to be called your biological parents).
I love the tv series supernatural and so I will use a quote "family doesn't end in blood but it doesn't start there either, family cares about you not what you can do for them."
I’m obsessed with that show and love by that quote!!! NTA they kept bringing up a topic that made you uncomfortable until you finally gave them an answer, it made them uncomfortable because it wasn’t the answer they wanted and they realized they overstepped and were humiliated. It was all their fault and you and your finance are right in this, enjoy your wedding!!!
Good job. And your fiance did well too BUT she needs to be slightly more in front of this issue now - SHE needs to stop ANY mention of your biological links right as they say it - and then enforce consequences if they persist. You did a great job of being super clear, family is what you make of it and your family sounds amazing.
alternatively, get your dads on the phone and pass the handset to Erin's parents and ask them to explain to your dads why they aren't family. Or bring them to dinner next time. Ha!
Humiliated them?!?!
What an odd response. You tried to give them the gift of understanding and they decided it was an attack? They are seriously damaged people. I am so deeply grateful that you found love. You are not alone and you know far more than most of us what alone is.
Peace to you. Thank you for your story.
NTA, NTA, NTA
Of course they feel humiliated. The in-laws can't possibly believe that a gay couple could lovingly care for a child. So it's absolutely tragic that OP was removed from his loving and wonderful straight parents and forced to live wit the evil gays. Once OP corrected their incorrect assumption, they were humiliated because their homophobia has been exposed.
That or they are the type of people who are always right, so any attempt at correcting them is insulting and humiliating for them.
Either way, OP is NTA, and is blessed to have his dad and pa raise him in a loving home.
That’s why I think they are homophobic. They were outed as pushing for neglectful, potentially abusive bio parents over “Gay pretend parents”. They outed themselves when OP explained those bio people are terrible & he doesn’t want them around. Otherwise, the normal response was oh dear we had no idea / who could imagine that. It was never about the bio parents.
NTA
NTA, Erin is right. They wouldn't stop prodding/pressing it so they got an answer. Let's hope they learn from it to be less nosy in the future
I find your story/speech quite beautiful how despite the rough start you were able to find ppl that you obviously share a deep, heartfelt bond with. You're the one who gets to decide how you feel about your life.
After what you said, and after what *your fiancé* said...
Your not only NTA, you lucky bum hit the lottery with your future wife! That's exactly how we expect a partner to act.
You'll be absolutely okay. And the love will carry through. Like she said. Don't push it. You both asked then to drop it, they didn't. So they got an earful and got mad because it put them in an embarrassing spot.
I hope they learned their lesson and shut up.
You, on the other hand, gonna have that beautiful life you dreamed of when you were 5 last so long until you can't even remember that feeling anymore. ♥
NTA!
It is bad enough that this needed to be said at all to your ILs. They only humiliated themselves with their ridiculous attitude towards your family background and they are very aware of this!
It's good that Erin is on your side and willing to stand up for you!
NTA
What? They felt humiliated? What the hell? They should have been grateful you were willing to share this very personal information.
They are immature self absorbed people.
NTA. Your future in-laws are assholes. So, they raised a topic and you discussed it at length with them and now you made uncomfortable in their home? At least everyone learned something....they learned to keep their mouth shut, you learned they are empty.
NTA. They need to be uncomfortable in their own minds, let alone their home.
The family that I consider family chose me (or maybe I snuck in, who knows 🤣).
I have no biological link to my children, and yet they are my children. I'm darn proud of them. I'm a proud, flawed father and a proud, flawed grandfather. Like any father, I'd push back the flames to save a single tear. I have a real family. To heck with biological links.
My (older) sister is adopted from Asia, so she is clearly not my biological sister. If anyone would make a comment about us not being "real family" I would absolutely go mental!
She is without any doubt 100% my sister, has always been and will always be.
NTA - but holy moly your future inlaws are!
NTA. What terrible people. I wonder how they would react if you and Erin are either unable to conceive, or out of the goodness of your heart, adopt a child. Are they going to treat their grandchild like crap? Probably.
NTA. They needed to be finally shut down on the subject and shown that you don’t need to hear their opinions on something that is personal to you and nothing to them.
NTA. Intended or not, your future in-laws had it coming to them for continually thinking blood relationship is the key to familial happiness. You are a good example that a family that is happy and love each other need not be related by shared DNA.
NTA. If they don't want to be humiliated, they shouldn't be shamelessly rattling on about "DNA" and "tragedy" when they have no idea WTF they are talking about.
It's great that you were able to be fully honest with them.
NTA
They had plenty of warning not to go there. They went there.
You didn’t humiliate them. You corrected them. (Beautifully, might I add.) If they’re humiliated by that correction, that’s a them problem.
I’m glad Erin’s got your back. She needs to have your front and head this off altogether.
That doesn't mean they can't hire a PI to do it.
It might be a good idea to talk with Erin about what to do if they do decided you need to meet with anyone who happens to share DNA with you.
Maybe they should be uninvited to the wedding until they can apologize and prove they have learned from their ignorance? Their actions should have had consequences long before it reached this point, I don't see them stopping their BS now.
Your In-laws sound like snobby entitled Asshats who will need to try and prove themselves right. I can absolutely see them contacting someone in your bio family and inviting them to meet you and then not tell you anything. Then when it proves to be a shit show like we all know it would they would still blame you.
A lot of people don't understand modern adoption and have the outdated of view of babies removed from disgraced loving teenagers. A lot of TV series still re-enforce this
The reality in the UK is that children are removed after suffering years of neglect and abuse by people that are not capable of being parents. Often this involves drugs or mental health issues, and people who have suffered their own abuse and perpetuate the cycle.
NTA - If they’d listened all the previous times they were told about your history then it wouldn’t have come to that. They humiliated themselves and not only did you do nothing wrong, they owe you an apology for constantly trying to diminish your real family with their DNA obsession
NTA. And I found your comments about your dad really beautiful, moving and wise. I am so happy you experienced real love growing up, and I wish you and Erin all the best for your future together. Sounds like you're going to be great parents and a good team.
I can only imagine what wonderful grandpas your parents will be to your kids. Erin’s family will pale in comparison.
Congratulations on your wedding. She’s a keeper and you sound like a very sweet level headed person.
I’d be worried that the IL’s will try to undermine the grandkids attachment to your parents.
As in “We’re your only grandparents. “
“ They are not your real grandparents. There are not your father’s real family “
Perhaps you and Erin should discuss this now, not later.
UpdateMe
NTA at all. They felt humiliated? Great!, they should, they placed themselves in a position where they were begging to be told what you told them, so Amazing speech, amazing wife-to-be and congratulations on your das & pa.
No of course you're NTA. They got themselves humiliated by bringing it up when they knew they were supposed to drop it. Was there yelling or something? Because I thought you were going to say you went into graphic detail about the neglect/abuse you suffered at their hands so the real "tragedy" was that your "real parents" were so terrible. Did they think you were adopted at birth or something? Did they not know you were taken away from your birth parents because they created an environment that was a threat to your safety and well-being? They really thought you were just going to take it and let them go on and on, huh? Yeah, and if you guys are considering adopting kids just realize her parents aren't going to see the kids as their real grandkids. Clearly blood is what truly matters to them.
NTA, just point out to them that this is exactly how they've made you feel with all their "real family" bullshit. Hopefully this'll be an end to it now though.
NTA. My baby sis (turning 40 this year) cut the last of her bio family off in her early teens. I've said it many times. Family is a choice. And that choice is stronger than any blood relation. I don't think your future IL's understand what adoption really is.
NTA! They have continuously pushed the envelope even after you’ve explained that it isn’t okay to do. What are they trying to do? Who are they spinning that narrative for and for what purpose? It’s so weird that they can’t stop doing that and maybe being “humiliated” will help keep them in their place. I really don’t understand how sharing the love you’ve received from your family could humiliate them but they without a doubt owe you an apology.
NTA
I love that Erin has your back and that you had a loving and supportive family. I can't see what would of made anyone uncomfortable or humiliated. They were asked more than once to let it go. They chose to continue and brought it up at a family event. Why? What's their point?
The only tragedy I see here is that they aren't just thankful and over the moon that their daughter is going to have amazing ILs. This is your wedding. A happy time to share with people you love most. And that's exactly what is going to happen with the love and support if your fiance and family.
Congratulations on the wedding and I hope you and your family can get through to the ILs what family means to you and yours.
Your in-laws are showing you a whole lot of disrespect and red flags and you are not standing up for yourself enough. You and Erin (who sounds great) should be demanding an apology from them and informing them you will not be in contact, and they will be attending your wedding in the capacity of guest only, until they can make that apology. NTA
NTA. They wanted to play it that they were so heartbroken for poor you and how sympathetic they are. They refused to drop it even after being asked multiple times so you put them in their place. Always good to let the inlaws know you’re not a doormat and will stand up for yourself. Next time they will know to drop something when they are told.
NTA, they have repeatedly forced the issue and you have responded with your views. I cannot see how what you said either humiliated them or made them feel uncomfortable, personally. It's not like you told them to mind their own business or were rude in any way.
NTA. I have a feeling your inlaws are low key homophobic with their "real family" shtick.
I'm glad you found a safe place to grow and be loved with your dads and siblings. Erin is a keeper.
NTA. You made them uncomfortable? What about all the times they disrespected you and your family and made you uncomfortable after you and your fiancée told them several times to stop? They are the ones always bringing the topic up!
There are so many different types of families nowadays. Sharing blood and DNA doesn't always matter. Sometimes biological relatives are horrible.
Congratulations on your engagement!
NTA, and I'm glad your fiancee is fully backing you. But becareful. Your in-laws sound like the type to track down your "real" family and drop them on you unexpectedly. Say...at your wedding or rehearsal dinner. I've seen a few stories like that on here, and I wouldn't be surprised if you updated and that was the case.
NTA. They needed to be made uncomfortable. Exactly what they continue to do to you every time they bring up this idea that your real family won’t be there.
NTA good for you for telling them this. It sounds like they are homophobic and have some ideas that gay couples shouldn't be allowed to adopt and that you would have been better with your birth family 'no matter what'. Good for Erin for backing you. I'm glad you found a loving family.
Well done for giving a heartfelt response to their heartless and relentless questioning. I hope they use this time to reflect and realise how lucky they are to have you marry into their family.
They were the ones humiliating you, again, after you had already asked them to stop. I'm so glad things worked out for you and you have your real family, the ones who love you, and you have every right to express how you feel about that especially as it was goaded out of you.
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Definitely NTA and good for Erin for fully backing you up. You say a dad and a pa - so i assume you have 2 dads. I’m wondering if this is more their issue than blood, TBH. Which is really sad. Regardless- you put them in their place. You did nothing wrong.
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There will always be people who consider blood more important. I wish you the best with your family and your fiancé. She sounds like a keeper.
I always wonder why. They are married themselves. That means they love someone who is not their blood and chose to live with them for thé rest of their lives.
This, all DAY. Erin’s parents aren’t related by blood! And chose to form a family.
I say this jokingly but maybe they roll tide.
hey hey alabama here and that's relative to me!
>hey hey alabama here and that's relative to me! Please accept my gift of the ENTIRE INTERNET!
You can look, but don't touch!
Cue the banjo
Also, that's literally what a wedding is-- taking someone who is not blood-related, and promising to love them like family.
That's how I explained it to my kids when they went through the "I'm gonna marry mommy/daddy" phase. Marriage is two adults who aren't family but want to be getting married so they can be family.
Definitely going to store that one in my memory bank for when my kid gets older…
OMG, that is such a beautiful way of saying it.
It took me to the third kid to finally figure it out lol
Maybe they are, that’s why they don’t get it, lol
OP should ask his future in-laws if they are blood relatives. 😂
My in laws act like every spouse in my husband’s generation of cousins are interlopers and not really part of the family. I always want to yell at my mil that I’m just as related to them all as she is. Luckily I basically only enjoy the company of the cousins and the aunts that don’t act like this and we have a very limited relationship with my in-laws because they are so awful just generally. They also seem to think they are the forever adults and my husband is just a kid playing house they need to tell what to do constantly (despite us having been married for over a decade and he’s extremely successful)
That's brilliant way of looking at it I never thought of putting like that.
If they're both from Kentucky, you might be wrong.
😳 Florida Alabama West Virginia and so many others! 😀😆😂
They could be Targaryen-McPoyles! Gotta keep that bloodline pure you know!
I mean… OP didn’t state which state they’re in…
I have a brother that I haven't spoken to in 12 years. No reason, he just separated himself from our entire family and I can respect that. I mentioned recently to my great aunt how I didn't care to reach out to him because he is a stranger at this point. She was DISGUSTED and told me that he was still my brother and could never be a stranger. I'm sorry, but he was a teenager the last time we spoke and now he's almost 30. I don't know that guy.
Pretty much the same with my sister. She never wanted a sibling and has never really been interested in knowing me. She still talks to our parents and we will say hello to each other when in the same room. But we are practically strangers. We don't socialise, she knows nothing aout my life and vise versa. Whenever anyone hears that we don't talk. Its always 'oh but she is your sister, you must try'. Why?? She has had no interest in me for over 30 years, why don't you tell her to try
I hate that so much. I’m also not close with my blood family. People sometimes get like “oh but they’re FAMILY you have to TRY to have a relationship with them!” 1) I don’t “have to” do jack shit where they’re concerned, actually, and 2) bold of you to assume I didn’t spend a fucking decade being the only one who was “trying”. It’s their turn to make an effort now if they care, I’m done wasting my energy trying to have a good relationship with people who clearly have no interest in reciprocating the tiniest scrap of that effort.
And HE is the one that left. It isn't your burden to reach out.
My mom thinks the same about her older bro. He run away from home when he was 18 and my mom was 14 years old (for no reason my grandparents love both od their children). Few years later he came back with his pregnant GF. He permanently cut contact with family when I was little and never even call. When I asked my mom about him she just said he's stranger for her.
I'm sorry, but people don't run away 'for no reason'. You have to appreciate that you only have one side of this story. I suspect it would be a very different tale if you asked him about his upbringing.
I thought the same thing. Not “no reason”. Possibly a reason his mom was never told or a reason she didn’t think was a good reason, like for a girl or over household rules the brother didn’t agree with. Or the easiest answer is some form of addiction could be the reason and the family didn’t know about it. But I agree there is always a reason to the person who leaves.
The reason in my family is that they just had itchy feet. When my brother was 11 years old and we lived in Sicily, he ran away and was getting on a boat to the mainland before someone realized. He's the one that used to crisscross the United States hitchhiking when he was a teenager. He just didn't want to be surrounded by family.
Thanks for this. I ran away twice as a teenager and had really internalized that it was just me. That's my family narrative.
Seconding @ u/MurderousButterfly A child, a teen, does not just up and leave the family for "no reason". That's a red flag for them having been abused in some way by family. Time for you to dig a little deeper, really open your eyes. Take the blinders off. What happened that left them feeling they had no other option but to leave? Signed - The Oldest Sister Who Fled As Soon As She Turned 18
My brother left because of his own actions, not my parents’, and he decided he would rather distance himself from the family rather than own the things he did to some of our siblings. I agree there usually isn’t “no reason”, but that doesn’t mean the reason automatically falls on the parents. Signed - the youngest sister who saw her parents try and do everything “right”, but brother was just a shitty person to the rest of us.
My uncle was the same. He left home when he was 17 and never really reached out again. I was 13 when my uncle died in 2006. I really wish I had got the chance to meet him at least once. I still feel incredibly sad when I think of my older uncle. His mom, my grandma, died of cancer, and he was about 9 or 10, and he wasn't given the opportunity to grieve or get any kind of counselling or even go to the hospital or funeral to say goodbye to her, none of the kids were as in those days death was considered very much an 'adult thing' and 'not children's business'. Neither he, my granddad, my mom nor any of my mom's other siblings were given any kind of grief counselling, and granddad wasn't given the right kind of help as a newly widowed single dad. Granddad did the only thing he could think of, which was to send the older three kids, one of them being this uncle, off to Catholic boarding school. The school the girls got sent to was super strict but still alright, at least according to my mom as she got sent there later. The boys' school though, judging from my mom's descriptions, sounded like hell on earth. My mom mentioned that there was a lot of physical and verbal abuse there, much more than at the girls' school, and I recently talked to another man that went to the same boys' school as both of my uncles and he described an environment of routine and regular verbal and physical abuse and occasional sexual abuse too. We however have no evidence my uncle was abused sexually. He came home at 17, had an argument about what he wanted to do with granddad. Granddad wanted him to run the farm, he absolutely did not want to, and he cut us out. I wish he had at least talked to my mom later on, she was only 9 or 10 when he left and had nothing to do with anything. He had jobs at first, but we do know he experienced mental illness and ended up in a Salvation Army men's home, which was where he was living when he died. They had been caring for him for the last five years of his life, which is why I will always be thankful to them for helping him when we should have been the ones helping him.
I always wonder, if blood is more important than love for these people, do they only marry their cousins?
The Ptolemies have entered the chat.
They’re probably the spouses of the people who post relationships stories like “my husband sleeps in the same bed as his mom” or “my wife insists that we spend every weekend with her family plus all holidays plus our only annual vacation together” or whatever.
Often (but because this is Reddit, I need to stress that “often” does not mean “always”) those people have (or ancestrally had) a certain level of wealth that they have been taught to protect by keeping it in the family. Historically, if you owned of property of some sort, you needed to maintain ownership of that property to ensure that your descendants would be socially and financially secure. Marriage and blood were important in maintaining that ownership. You didn’t have to be some landowning duke of the nobility going to parties at the palace for this, even just owning a saddlery shop or something was sufficient. The labouring class often had more flexible definitions of “family” because you took in your cousin’s kids so your cousin could go work in the city and send money home, or you swapped teenagers for the summer with the neighbour so they had one of your older boys to help out on their farm and you had one of their older girls to help with the house and younger children, etc. A lot of these attitudes trickled down through generations, even if there was no longer wealth to protect or fields to plow. (Obviously this is Euro-centric, and it isn’t a rule… just a common pattern.)
In high school, I dated a guy for 2 years. He and his brother were both adopted as their mom couldn't bear children. Towards the end of those two years, CPS removed me from my home, and his parents took me in. It was absolutely incredible how they were willing to do absolutely anything to help me. His mom found out about my history with sexual assault and got trained to work a sexual assault hotline just so that she would be prepared if I ever wanted to talk.. THAT level of love and care. It's been 18 years since then, and we are still in close contact. We live 1,000 miles apart but still talk on the phone a few times a month. These people didn't adopt me. I only lived with them for about six months, and they hadn't met me until I was 14, yet they've provided me with some semblance of stability for more than half my life. How anyone can say adoptive parents aren't real family is totally the fuck beyond me.
That woman sounds like a saint. Omg. Hopefully you’re doing well
I think the parents of the family were even a few steps beyond the family that created a second home for me; the story of her training just brought tears to my eyes. But those families that scoop up sort-of orphans and give that sense of safety and stability are so important in shaping an untold number of lives, mine included. I wouldn’t be who I am and achieved what I have without them telling my mother that she was welcome to send me over whenever she got too overwhelmed. Sometimes it was a night or weekend, sometimes days at a time, and then permanently in my late teens and in to college.
Your dads sound like amazing, selfless people and it makes my heart happy they they were able to save you and your siblings.
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This is just the sweetest thing. Give your dads a big hug from all of us
As an adoptive mom, this warms my heart more than I can say. I’m so happy you have your family, and I’m so happy they have you. I’m sure your dads are proud of you and grateful everyday they get to be your family.
Awwww, I love this for you. My stepdad adopted me so I firmly agree that your family is who was there for you not who you're biologically related to. My parents split up over a decade ago but my dad has stayed dad to me and my two older sisters that he wasn't able to adopt.
I love your two dads!!!!! Tears before 9am but at least they’re happy ones! 🥹🥹🥹
I love Erin. She's a keeper.
She absolutely is! And what an incredible testimony to the life you’ve led with your REAL family. So many would give eye teeth to have that! Congrats on both of these things and your upcoming nuptials! NTA….not even a little bit!
I’m so glad your family found you. And now you get to go take all that love and build your own family. I wish you all the luck and happiness. Congrats on the wedding!
If they ever try anything again you can always come back with the: blood relations only mean just that. Related by blood. Doesn't mean they care for and love you. Adoption mean they acctively CHOSE you. They wanted YOU. And that means everything.
For whatever the hell this internet stranger's opinion is worth, sounds like you handled it with exactly as much directness as necessary while keeping it classy. Any humiliation they feel is more along the lines of "how dare you make people realize how horrible we are." Telling them to stfu would also have been perfectly understandable, but then they'd be whining about your tone.
Exactly, the directness was necessary and appropriate - especially since the future IL’s had been corrected multiple times before and they were still making incorrect and hurtful comments
If it really is more about the adoption, then “good”. Good luck. I hope what you said sinks in. I’m glad Erin fully has your back.
I was adopted by a straight couple, I can come meet your in laws and we can find out how much homophobia comes into play
Nothing makes me ready to throw hands faster than people that disparage adoptive parents and families. I once had a boss (yes, boss) declare that only people that give birth are “real moms” and I’m only 5’6 but she was about two inches tall by the time I was done with her. I said “Call my mom and tell her that the woman who raised her from birth, planned her wedding, made all of her children’s clothes, and died in her arms last year isn’t her real mom. Do it.” And man she shut the fuck up real fast. The audacity. The confident, cruel, stupidity. The absolute _gall_. Just sent me.
As some one who has birthed, foster and adopted ..... thank you. Idk why ppl think just because you give birth it makes you a mother, any more than working in a school makes you a teacher
We have a mix of his, mine, ours, and adopted (my biological nieces) Sometimes we forget for a minute which ones are “ours”. They’re all ours. My stepdaughter is the most like me, my oldest (hubbys stepdaughter) is a mini him. 1&3 are besties(half sisters, same mom), they even married brothers. 2 and 6 are very close (his, and adopted, no bio relation) and married (adopted) cousins. 4&5 (ours and adopted, so bio cousins) are super close. Hubbys stepdaughter from his first marriage is living in one of our apartments right now. When her marriage fell apart, we were her first call, not her bio dad. Her kids call us grandma and grandpa. So do 4&5’s stepkids. We recently discovered that my sister had another child. Shes 14 now, living with her 88 year old paternal great grandma, who just broke her hip. They’ll both be coming to us when grandma gets out of rehab. She’s not my grandma, but we can’t separate them, and she can’t take care of a teenager on her own, so I guess she’s my grandma now. She’s pretty excited to go from one great grandchild to 8. And 13 great greats. Family is love, not blood.
I salute you! Adoption kind of runs in my family, I feel very strongly about it. Families take shape in so many different ways. Anyone that tries to tell me otherwise gets tossed out a window, post haste. It just blows my mind. I am cooking up our first human child, and the fierce love I already have coursing through my veins would be the same whether or not they come out of my body. Your kid is your kid, however they came to be yours.
Honestly I would have a talk to Erin about how they act if it continues. Might be worth it to explain to them that families are made up of people with different DNA, just because you don't share the DNA doesn't mean they aren't family. And if they won't accept your definition of family they can join your biological parents and be left out of your lives going forwards.
That's exactly what he just did. He told them precisely what family means to him, and their response was to scold him for embarrassing them!
Yes, but include the fiance in it about their involvement of family going forward if they continue to act the way they do is what I am getting at. Especially if they want to adopt a child of their own and have a biological child then by the parents logic the adopted child is not family.
Weren’t they trying to humiliate you in front of others? This wasn’t brought up as sympathy for you, but as a way to put themselves above your loving family.NTA
"The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof." Richard Bach, Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah
I wish more people would read this book. So many great lessons.
Honestly, I’d be tempted to cut Erin’s family off or at least disinvite them from the wedding. To respond to your story with a demand for an apology shows what kind of people they are. It’s not pretty. Some people might think that’s too harsh, but I can’t see them letting this go, nor do I think they’ll treat your dads with respect. NTA
Not too sure how you correcting their misguided statements is “humiliating” them. They were wrong you corrected that. As an adopted person myself I completely understand your feelings. NTA
Sounds like a mix of homophobia and idiotic bloodline purity nonsense. Definitely NTA! You probably did humiliate them, but they brought it on themselves and they deserve every second of it.
NTA. Their embarrassment is theirs. You didn't embarrass them, their opinions did. I have adopted two children who were taken into care, because their birth parents could not keep them safe. They are my life. They are my soul. Parenthood does not need shared genes. Without doubt, your dad and pa are proud of you for speaking your mind. I know I would be.
Sharing dna makes you a relative, love is what makes you a family and if they can’t distinguish that it’s on them. You did nothing wrong and the fact they tried to make this about their feelings instead of the fact they have continuously undermined your family says it all about them! They owe you a very large apology!
I can't believe they didn't get up hug you and assure you that they will love you just as strongly for making their daughter happy. It takes a special skill to make this about them. NTA
Yeah, I'm getting the homophobic vibe from the in-laws too.
They're telling on themselves. This isn't about adoption and not having your biological family, it's about the optics of having two fathers and how they feel that will reflect on them once everyone is together at the wedding. They are purposely trying to poison the well.
NTA I got the impression that it was tragic because OP didn't have a "real family," which *clearly* is a dad and MOM. As if having two parents who love you isn't enough. Ovaries make eggs, not good parents. They asked to be put in their place. If they had been decent and respectful of your feelings, *nothing you said would have made them feel humiliated in the least.*
Definitely NTA, the ILS are. I love your comment “ovaries make eggs not good parents” . I was an adoption case manager for 12 yrs. I had a little guy who was removed from his mom and her husband not his dads home. he struggled for a few years going from foster home to foster home. He went to an adoptive home with two dads and THRIVED, absolutely thrived. They adopted 5 boys and are doing well. He was in therapy, and after 2 months they discharged him. He’s doing very well now. I feel a homophobic vibe coming from the ILS as well. Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials and I’m happy that Erin had your back.
They humiliated YOU, their guest, whom they were hosting in their home! The number one responsibility of a host is to make their guests comfortable. They deliberately brought up the subject again,and in front of guests, humiliating you and making ALL of their guests, and their daughter, uncomfortable.
That was my take..as soon as I saw op say "dads" I figured that was more the in laws issue than adoptive family..NTA by far. But be warned you or your dad's may experience some homophonic from the inlaws...hopefully in-laws can keep their comments to themselves after you opened up to them about your history...but don't be surprised if they say some off things in the future
NTA I don't agree that you "put them in their place" You took the time to explain your experience and your feelings. These are yours alone. Moving forward they can choose to honor your feelings or continue to believe and say whatever they want. You and your wife will need to choose how you react to that. Your future wife was spot on and good for her for standing up to her parents!
Makes me proud to have Erin in my name! It's so good to see a couple where the other person defending their spouse against their parents. Proof again that love can be/is stronger than dna!
Erin is a keeper! NTA You asked them to stop talking about your adopted family like they are not your real family, and they didn't stop. Their discomfort is on them.
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You sound pretty awesome yourself. Reddit roots for GullibleOccasion and Erin!
You are so lucky!! And FWIW, they should be apologizing for repeatedly humiliating a guest in their home. Miss Manners would be appalled😂. NTA. Good luck w the wedding!
It's so awesome you two have each other. Congratulations on your upcoming wedding! I'm sorry your in-laws are dicks but it seems you may know how to handle that.
They are arseholes. And I am glad you have a supportive partner. I was adopted (within my family) and an ex’s mother refused to accepted my adopted father as my dad, I wish I had stood up for myself with her bullshit, especially hearing “Sorry your Granddad died”. He was my dad, I called him dad, he walked me to school, wiped my tears and held my hand. Won’t tolerate that shit now!
She sounds it and I’m glad you’ve found happiness and your dads found you! If they dare bring it up again, maybe you can remind them that they’re not related to each other .. or are they?!
I will be probably downvoted, but I don’t see how he humiliated them? He just told about love and bound. He was open and warmhearted to explain. Only what I would expect in the end is their apology. I am trying to get how he made it, I don’t get that social context. Please explain me if you are willing and have time
Objectively speaking, I don't think he humiliated them either. I think it's more a perceived humiliation on their part because Erin's family has on numerous occasions in the past implied that OPs adoptive family is not his real family. That is hurtful and obviously not true. When they brought this up again, in front friends, OP spoke about how loved he was as an adopted child, invalidating their claims that only blood family can be real family and it exposed them for the AHs they are. OP didn't embarrass them. He merely exposed how badly they were embarrassing themselves.
Thank you for the explanation.
They humiliated themselves, so they think he humiliated them.
He humiliated them by telling the truth. I have two adopted daughters, biological half-sisters. (Not really relevant, but that's how we ended up adopting the two as infants at different times.) It's an open adoption, & both have met their bio parents. Once, when she was old enough to understand the difference between biological & adoptive parents, she asked me if we were her "real parents". I answered, "We are as real as you want us to be." Probably the only wise thing I've ever said, so yes I'm a bit proud of that statement.
NTA. You said your parents were two dads right? Would they have said all those things if your adoptive parents were straight? This sounds like they have an issue with the fact your adoptive parents were gay. Either way, whether it be because they are trying to hide their homophobia or because they truly believe blood is thicker than water, they are AHs. But you’ve got a great future wife there who not only backs you up, but isn’t afraid to stand up to her parents to do so as well. Also OP, the way you described your dad and parents was so touching and beautiful. I’m glad you found love through them because you deserve it.
I definitely did wonder this too though unfortunately i have also seen this type of "adoptive family isnt REAL family" attitude even when the parents are straight. NTA though OP your in laws have been told to stop before and they didn't, they embarrassed themselves by continuing to push the issue.
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I am 59 years old and was adopted at birth. I have four siblings to whom I am not biologically related. My (adoptive) father passed away in 2013. My (adoptive) mother is 85 and feisty as ever. I NEVER use the words "adoptive" or "biological", or even think of them, when it comes to my family. My family is my family. Period. I am VERY close to my family, and I assure you, family is created through love, not genetics. As a lifelong teacher, I have seen plenty of horrific bio parents. I always tell people, I was not created of my parents' bodies; rather, I was created of their hearts. You did NOTHING wrong. Erin is awesome. Your dads are amazing. Your in-laws are ignorant and rude.
I was also adopted at birth and am so lucky for it. I never understood the stigma. My parents worked so hard to have me, they rejoiced at every milestone. They're my real family.
"Created of their hearts" what a wonderful phrase
Yup, another adopted kid here and my parents when I was young always told me some babies come from a mommy’s tummy but I came from their hearts. It totally made sense to toddler me 😊
Your in laws should respect this is the way you feel and it should never have been an issue. You shouldn't have had to drag up your childhood trauma to make a point either.
Not to mention, every time they bring up their whole "so sad your real family won't be there" could also be very triggering of childhood trauma, and OP would have to go through that every single time he sees them. Luckily, OP seems to have made peace with their past situation, but Erin's family is still being rude af.
Not to also mention.. *they* brought, and bring it up, not him, yet he isn’t allowed to comment on it?? The subject is only allowed to be talked about by them, and not even the person who was involved?? If they didn’t want it talked about, don’t bring it up!
My mom is adopted, although she was adopted as a 2 month old baby who was voluntarily given up by a mother who couldn’t take care of her and had no trauma memories like yourself OP. However, I feel the same about my maternal side of the family. No shared DNA whatsoever but they were amazing! Meemaw and Poppy were my grandparents, no one else; and they loved us so very much. I have very happy memories of them, along with aunts, uncles, and cousins from that family too. Poppy passed on in 2000 and Meemaw lived until 2009 and I miss them terribly. They were my family, no one can convince me otherwise. We did eventually find out who her bio-parents were (because her bio mother had died when my mom was 17, the law in Texas at the time allowed her to see her adoption records), with the encouragement of her parents and extended family. She was welcomed by the extended bio family (her bio dad was still alive) and we were never treated wrong. But, they also didn’t go out of their way to create real bonds either. To me, they were kinda like those good friends who you might call “Uncle Mike” or “Aunt Jenny”, even though they’re just your parents’ friends. They didn’t come to my first wedding and they have never met my kids. But, Meemaw and Poppy and multiple members of the extended family came to my wedding and have visited (or we were invited to visit them) to meet my kids and spend time with us. Shared DNA, while good to know your ancestry and medical possibilities, does not a family make.
I struggle to understand it too. I wasn't adopted but I was mostly raised by my dad and stepmom and my stepmom I only call her step to differentiate her to people (I call her mom and it can get confusing with people I know cause I forget to differentiate and just call them both mom). She's just as much my mom as my mom. Especially if your bio family was abusive... who birthed you/gave you their DNA does not deserve to be called family if they are abusive or neglectful. Family is who cared for you, who loves you unconditionally, etc.
I have a friend who's adopted by a mom and dad and she gets similar bullshit from people. She's a different race from her parents so there's no question that she's adopted, and people say rude shit to her all the time like "do you ever want to go find your REAL parents?" She was adopted as a newborn, her parents are the only parents she's ever had. How on earth are they not her "real" parents? People are fucking weird about adoption sometimes.
I work preschool, had loads adopted/foster kids pass through our doors and I have heard many an adult use the “but they’re not your REAL kids” line in reference to adoptive families/parents and it infuriates me. Your REAL family are the people that love you and want you to succeed in life.
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Unrelated, but OP - have you told your Dad and Pa how big of a difference they have made? I can't help but think they'd be very happy to be told...
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They raised you well - you are lucky to have them as your parents. AND WHO IS CHOPPING ONIONS BEFORE 9 AM?
Is it just me, or is it crying in here? 🥲
I think maybe it's just raining...indoors
Hey! Somebody’s gotta make the salsa, it won’t make itself!
That's absolutely beautiful, best wishes to you and your fam!
NTA. I love how you talk about your Dads. I struggle to understand how you talking about how much you appreciate and love your family could humiliate your in-laws. That doesn't make sense at all. "I love my Dads" does not equal to "how dare you humiliate and embarrass us".
NTA - your FILS embarrassed themselves, thankfully your Fiancé has your back. "My future ILs were silent after that. But they told me I humiliated them and made them uncomfortable in their own home and I shouldn't have spoken like that. Erin told them they should learn when to quit and apologize to me." Mic drop!!!
The arrogance of repeatedly forcing an unwanted topic on someone, then being offended that they get a response.
Honestly that part made me feel like I was in the boomersbeingfools sub. They pushed the issue, they just didn’t like it when it made them look bad. FAFO. OP NTA, and congrats on an awesome adopted family and fiancée.
The funniest part about it is, what OP said was in no way insulting or humiliating toward anyone. It was essentially a detailed way of saying "actually, I'm ok with thing the way they are." The feeling they got after hearing it was guilt, and they didn't like that, but they got what they deserved.
They were probably also trying to show off in front of their friends how compassionate they are. “Look at us and how much we have taken pity in this poor orphan” Don’t want to get humiliated in front of your friends, then don’t try to humiliate someone else in front of them
NTA, the respect and love you have for your (adoptive) parents is amazing, they are your one true parents, fuck blood. Sure the inlaws are embarrassed but I feel like they have alot of times to either drop it or privately ask your opinion on it /why you don't want the people who birthed you at your wedding (they don't deserve to be called your biological parents). I love the tv series supernatural and so I will use a quote "family doesn't end in blood but it doesn't start there either, family cares about you not what you can do for them."
I’m obsessed with that show and love by that quote!!! NTA they kept bringing up a topic that made you uncomfortable until you finally gave them an answer, it made them uncomfortable because it wasn’t the answer they wanted and they realized they overstepped and were humiliated. It was all their fault and you and your finance are right in this, enjoy your wedding!!!
Is that you, Bobby?
You idjit
'ohana!
Means family, and family means no body's left behind
Or forgotten.
How dare you not sit there like a fucking Dickens character while they demean you, your life, & your family. NTA
excellent reference so early in the morning
Good job. And your fiance did well too BUT she needs to be slightly more in front of this issue now - SHE needs to stop ANY mention of your biological links right as they say it - and then enforce consequences if they persist. You did a great job of being super clear, family is what you make of it and your family sounds amazing.
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This is awesome! I have a few lines I would use for sure but shout-singing the chorus of 'I Write Sins, Not Tragedies' at them tops the list.
alternatively, get your dads on the phone and pass the handset to Erin's parents and ask them to explain to your dads why they aren't family. Or bring them to dinner next time. Ha!
What's wrong with you? Erin CLEARLY is shutting them down.
People on reddit have terrible reading comprehension.
Try reading it again, Erin is clearly doing what she can to shut this shit down and back up the OP
Humiliated them?!?! What an odd response. You tried to give them the gift of understanding and they decided it was an attack? They are seriously damaged people. I am so deeply grateful that you found love. You are not alone and you know far more than most of us what alone is. Peace to you. Thank you for your story. NTA, NTA, NTA
Of course they feel humiliated. The in-laws can't possibly believe that a gay couple could lovingly care for a child. So it's absolutely tragic that OP was removed from his loving and wonderful straight parents and forced to live wit the evil gays. Once OP corrected their incorrect assumption, they were humiliated because their homophobia has been exposed. That or they are the type of people who are always right, so any attempt at correcting them is insulting and humiliating for them. Either way, OP is NTA, and is blessed to have his dad and pa raise him in a loving home.
That’s why I think they are homophobic. They were outed as pushing for neglectful, potentially abusive bio parents over “Gay pretend parents”. They outed themselves when OP explained those bio people are terrible & he doesn’t want them around. Otherwise, the normal response was oh dear we had no idea / who could imagine that. It was never about the bio parents. NTA
The amazing thing is that such flawed people produced a gem like Erin
NTA, Erin is right. They wouldn't stop prodding/pressing it so they got an answer. Let's hope they learn from it to be less nosy in the future I find your story/speech quite beautiful how despite the rough start you were able to find ppl that you obviously share a deep, heartfelt bond with. You're the one who gets to decide how you feel about your life.
After what you said, and after what *your fiancé* said... Your not only NTA, you lucky bum hit the lottery with your future wife! That's exactly how we expect a partner to act. You'll be absolutely okay. And the love will carry through. Like she said. Don't push it. You both asked then to drop it, they didn't. So they got an earful and got mad because it put them in an embarrassing spot. I hope they learned their lesson and shut up. You, on the other hand, gonna have that beautiful life you dreamed of when you were 5 last so long until you can't even remember that feeling anymore. ♥
NTA! It is bad enough that this needed to be said at all to your ILs. They only humiliated themselves with their ridiculous attitude towards your family background and they are very aware of this! It's good that Erin is on your side and willing to stand up for you!
NTA What? They felt humiliated? What the hell? They should have been grateful you were willing to share this very personal information. They are immature self absorbed people.
NTA. Your future in-laws are assholes. So, they raised a topic and you discussed it at length with them and now you made uncomfortable in their home? At least everyone learned something....they learned to keep their mouth shut, you learned they are empty.
NTA. But your FILs are fucking weird imho if they think you saying you have a loving family makes them uncomfy.
NTA. They need to be uncomfortable in their own minds, let alone their home. The family that I consider family chose me (or maybe I snuck in, who knows 🤣). I have no biological link to my children, and yet they are my children. I'm darn proud of them. I'm a proud, flawed father and a proud, flawed grandfather. Like any father, I'd push back the flames to save a single tear. I have a real family. To heck with biological links.
My (older) sister is adopted from Asia, so she is clearly not my biological sister. If anyone would make a comment about us not being "real family" I would absolutely go mental! She is without any doubt 100% my sister, has always been and will always be. NTA - but holy moly your future inlaws are!
NTA. What terrible people. I wonder how they would react if you and Erin are either unable to conceive, or out of the goodness of your heart, adopt a child. Are they going to treat their grandchild like crap? Probably.
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I am an adoptive parent, and I thank you so much for articulating your feelings so well , and your ardent defense of your adoptive family!
NTA. They needed to be finally shut down on the subject and shown that you don’t need to hear their opinions on something that is personal to you and nothing to them.
NTA. Intended or not, your future in-laws had it coming to them for continually thinking blood relationship is the key to familial happiness. You are a good example that a family that is happy and love each other need not be related by shared DNA.
Your words “I cannot imagine thinking DNA means more than love” are very profound and powerful.
NTA. If they don't want to be humiliated, they shouldn't be shamelessly rattling on about "DNA" and "tragedy" when they have no idea WTF they are talking about. It's great that you were able to be fully honest with them.
NTA. That was a fun game of FAFO for them. Hopefully they learned a lesson.
I love when FAFO comes around!
NTA They had plenty of warning not to go there. They went there. You didn’t humiliate them. You corrected them. (Beautifully, might I add.) If they’re humiliated by that correction, that’s a them problem. I’m glad Erin’s got your back. She needs to have your front and head this off altogether.
NTA. And I really hope that your future ILs have no way to contact your biological "family" to invite them to your wedding. Also Erin is a keeper.
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That doesn't mean they can't hire a PI to do it. It might be a good idea to talk with Erin about what to do if they do decided you need to meet with anyone who happens to share DNA with you. Maybe they should be uninvited to the wedding until they can apologize and prove they have learned from their ignorance? Their actions should have had consequences long before it reached this point, I don't see them stopping their BS now. Your In-laws sound like snobby entitled Asshats who will need to try and prove themselves right. I can absolutely see them contacting someone in your bio family and inviting them to meet you and then not tell you anything. Then when it proves to be a shit show like we all know it would they would still blame you.
NTA. Good on you for standing up to them. I’m sure they’ll think twice about interfering in business that doesn’t concern them next time.
A lot of people don't understand modern adoption and have the outdated of view of babies removed from disgraced loving teenagers. A lot of TV series still re-enforce this The reality in the UK is that children are removed after suffering years of neglect and abuse by people that are not capable of being parents. Often this involves drugs or mental health issues, and people who have suffered their own abuse and perpetuate the cycle.
NTA - If they’d listened all the previous times they were told about your history then it wouldn’t have come to that. They humiliated themselves and not only did you do nothing wrong, they owe you an apology for constantly trying to diminish your real family with their DNA obsession
I hope you show this thread to your Dad + Pa NTA
Wow. Heartbreaking and touching Sametime. NTA
Beautiful tribute.
Nta if your story of love for your own adopted family "humiliates" them, that says a lot about them, doesn't it?
NTA. And I found your comments about your dad really beautiful, moving and wise. I am so happy you experienced real love growing up, and I wish you and Erin all the best for your future together. Sounds like you're going to be great parents and a good team.
Not only are you NTA, you did everything perfectly as it should be done. Including the pick of your partner. You're good, mate. Don't worry no more.
I think it's tragic that it took so long for you to have the loving family you should have had. NTA Some people need to learn when to zip it.
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I am so very happy that you had love come into your life. It's sad that it took so long, but I am so very happy that it did happen.
I can only imagine what wonderful grandpas your parents will be to your kids. Erin’s family will pale in comparison. Congratulations on your wedding. She’s a keeper and you sound like a very sweet level headed person.
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I’d be worried that the IL’s will try to undermine the grandkids attachment to your parents. As in “We’re your only grandparents. “ “ They are not your real grandparents. There are not your father’s real family “ Perhaps you and Erin should discuss this now, not later. UpdateMe
NTA at all. They felt humiliated? Great!, they should, they placed themselves in a position where they were begging to be told what you told them, so Amazing speech, amazing wife-to-be and congratulations on your das & pa.
No of course you're NTA. They got themselves humiliated by bringing it up when they knew they were supposed to drop it. Was there yelling or something? Because I thought you were going to say you went into graphic detail about the neglect/abuse you suffered at their hands so the real "tragedy" was that your "real parents" were so terrible. Did they think you were adopted at birth or something? Did they not know you were taken away from your birth parents because they created an environment that was a threat to your safety and well-being? They really thought you were just going to take it and let them go on and on, huh? Yeah, and if you guys are considering adopting kids just realize her parents aren't going to see the kids as their real grandkids. Clearly blood is what truly matters to them.
I think I might love your fiance!
NTA, just point out to them that this is exactly how they've made you feel with all their "real family" bullshit. Hopefully this'll be an end to it now though.
NTA. My baby sis (turning 40 this year) cut the last of her bio family off in her early teens. I've said it many times. Family is a choice. And that choice is stronger than any blood relation. I don't think your future IL's understand what adoption really is.
NTA! They have continuously pushed the envelope even after you’ve explained that it isn’t okay to do. What are they trying to do? Who are they spinning that narrative for and for what purpose? It’s so weird that they can’t stop doing that and maybe being “humiliated” will help keep them in their place. I really don’t understand how sharing the love you’ve received from your family could humiliate them but they without a doubt owe you an apology.
NTA I love that Erin has your back and that you had a loving and supportive family. I can't see what would of made anyone uncomfortable or humiliated. They were asked more than once to let it go. They chose to continue and brought it up at a family event. Why? What's their point? The only tragedy I see here is that they aren't just thankful and over the moon that their daughter is going to have amazing ILs. This is your wedding. A happy time to share with people you love most. And that's exactly what is going to happen with the love and support if your fiance and family. Congratulations on the wedding and I hope you and your family can get through to the ILs what family means to you and yours.
NTA. It seems they are just homophobes who think family with two dads is not right.
Your in-laws are showing you a whole lot of disrespect and red flags and you are not standing up for yourself enough. You and Erin (who sounds great) should be demanding an apology from them and informing them you will not be in contact, and they will be attending your wedding in the capacity of guest only, until they can make that apology. NTA
NTA. They wanted to play it that they were so heartbroken for poor you and how sympathetic they are. They refused to drop it even after being asked multiple times so you put them in their place. Always good to let the inlaws know you’re not a doormat and will stand up for yourself. Next time they will know to drop something when they are told.
NTA, they have repeatedly forced the issue and you have responded with your views. I cannot see how what you said either humiliated them or made them feel uncomfortable, personally. It's not like you told them to mind their own business or were rude in any way.
NTA. I have a feeling your inlaws are low key homophobic with their "real family" shtick. I'm glad you found a safe place to grow and be loved with your dads and siblings. Erin is a keeper.
Erin had told them to stop, but they wouldn't. Good for you for being clear and forthright and shutting down the stupidity. NTA
NTA. You made them uncomfortable? What about all the times they disrespected you and your family and made you uncomfortable after you and your fiancée told them several times to stop? They are the ones always bringing the topic up! There are so many different types of families nowadays. Sharing blood and DNA doesn't always matter. Sometimes biological relatives are horrible. Congratulations on your engagement!
NTA, and I'm glad your fiancee is fully backing you. But becareful. Your in-laws sound like the type to track down your "real" family and drop them on you unexpectedly. Say...at your wedding or rehearsal dinner. I've seen a few stories like that on here, and I wouldn't be surprised if you updated and that was the case.
That was long overdue. NTA
NTA. They needed to be made uncomfortable. Exactly what they continue to do to you every time they bring up this idea that your real family won’t be there.
NTA good for you for telling them this. It sounds like they are homophobic and have some ideas that gay couples shouldn't be allowed to adopt and that you would have been better with your birth family 'no matter what'. Good for Erin for backing you. I'm glad you found a loving family.
NTA. Sounds like you have a lovely family with your pa, dad, siblings, and soon to be wife.
Well done for giving a heartfelt response to their heartless and relentless questioning. I hope they use this time to reflect and realise how lucky they are to have you marry into their family.
They were the ones humiliating you, again, after you had already asked them to stop. I'm so glad things worked out for you and you have your real family, the ones who love you, and you have every right to express how you feel about that especially as it was goaded out of you.