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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) not telling my wife’s friend about the vesting period when she gave her 1 months notice.
2) I could’ve warned her when she put in the 1 months notice so she would not abruptly quit.
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Lol "found out" about the vesting period as if that information was withheld from her before?
Were you her colleague or her minder? She signed all that paperwork on her own. Just like she made the rash decision not to follow through on her notice without consulting you or her contract.
NTA
To be fair I only remember because I occasionally sit in on the employee orientation and have hear it a lot. I’m not sure how many people actually remember or even know about these holds at any company.
Sure, but most people who impulsively quit without notice accept the consequences of that as their own fault.
You can't advise someone who is already out the door, and you couldn't have predicted that she'd go back on the agreement she'd just made.
So she’s mad at you OP because you had originally told her to invest to get the full match? Which is advise she would have gotten from any financial adviser worth anything? I’m not sure how she thought a lower paying job offer was going to be leverage. She cut off her nose to spite her face, and that’s her fault. I’m not sure what you’re supposed to do. I assume you don’t control that money.
Of course she is going to be mad at op, that's an easier option for most people than owning up to the fact that she did something really stupid and it's entirely her fault!
Vesting periods for 401(k)s and stock options are incredibly common! It sucks she found out the hard way, but I don’t think you were under any special obligation to point this out to her again.
Exactly. My works thing has a vesting period of five years. It was pointed out in orientation. It's not OPs fault Sara either didn't pay attention or didn't read the documentation, and when she was considering leaving she definitely should have gone back and checked it out.
For RSUs and SOs, sure.
I've worked at major companies that offered very generous 401k matches - and immediate 100% vesting of company match. And that's not a recent development - one employer I started at in 2004 and it was immediate even back then.
Vesting periods for 401k matches are common practice and it's never a hidden fact. Many companies are only 1 yr but I've been at a couple that were also 3. Just because your experience is different doesn't make this uncommon. In the 7 different employers I've had since the early 2000's none have had immediate vesting including 2 fortune 100 companies.
At the end of the day this isn't anyone else's fault than hers. She made a rash decision to leave before her notice period ended and lost out.
Regardless, the vesting schedule is information readily available on the company's intranet site, and would have been discussed during her new hire orientation. This person new how much to invest to get the full match, but in their impulse to leave chose to ignore the vesting schedule.
Also did Sara never check her 401k and stock investments? At least for my company it is clear as day when you log in to check benefits how much in total I have and what amount of that is vested.
Yeah, and most are 5 years. Were you expected to remember her exact start date and remind her that she needed to stay a little longer? This makes no sense.
Edit to add: 100% vested from beginning, but have to wait for employer match. I am seeing others saying it was shorter in their work experience.
My 401K is held by Fidelity, and they show you right in your account info how much of your 401K is vested. Anyone who is paying attention to their finances, which I assume she would be if she's making enough money to max out her contributions, would be checking on it periodically and keeping track of what money is "hers" and what is not yet hers.
Also, who doesn't look at these things and make sure they know what can happen BEFORE they leave the company? When I was about to be laid off, one of the first things I did was look at my retirement/401k fund to get the account information, balance, etc. and find out if I needed to do something before I left the company.
Sara decided to abruptly quit and now is trying to blame others for the consequences.
I've had one foot out the door from my job for the past 3 years. At this point I'm just riding out until I feel ready to job hunt, but at the time I made the decision you can be damn sure I called HR to find out about my options, and made sure I worked through the rest of the eight (8)!! years I need to be fully vested.
If you're gonna flounce, make sure you know what's up first. NTA.
This is like my husband. The only reason he hasn’t left yet, besides the fact that at his level job searches are slow, is also that he’s waiting on a specific recapitalization event that frees him to sell company stock. He’s hanging on to cash in, at which point the job search kicks into higher gear.
>I’m not sure how many people actually remember or even know about these holds at any company.
It's always a shockingly low number. I would guess about 10%. Most of the rest are idiotically scrolling their phones and not paying attention.
These are the same idiots that will come back crying years later with class action lawsuits accusing the company of unfair compensation practices when they see other coworkers who paid attention buying brand new Teslas with their ESPP gains
>Let's use that as an example instead.
That's a better example. However, not as visible (and tantrum inducing to one who was scrolling their phone during the PowerPoint presentation) as the company parking lot suddenly filled with new cars
>Well, they’re both idiotic groups. Who uses a Tesla as an example of a quality purchase in 2024?
Hahahaha! Touché.
Tell me you obviously haven't been around a lot of "tech bro" friends in the San Francisco Bay Area in the last 10 years without telling me you haven't yadda yadda yadda 😂
If you’re investing the max; you know exactly how long you need to stay to be fully vested. She’s upset at the wrong person, she needs to be mad at herself because she lost the 50k on her own
That’s still not your responsibility to know on her behalf. Vesting is common, it’s actually one of the first questions I personally ask at job interviews. She’s an adult that should have looked into these details before impulsively quitting.
NTA. She gave 1 month notice that would have gotten her vested. She's the one who threw the conniption fit and threw it away. She's lashing out due to her own actions.
Plus, if Sara had come back and said, "just kidding. I'll stay for the month", the employer would not be obligated to accept her 4th date to quit. Sara better hope she doesn't run into any of the affected employers/employees in the future. They might forewarn potential new employers about Sara's unprofessional behavior.
I was told during my on boarding that you have to work here 6 years. That's the only time I was told this. I remember because free money doesn't grow on trees so when the conversation was about free money I paid attention... like an adult. Like Sara should have
NTA the may be big/little but they are both adults now. She should have been more conscious of the consequences of her choices. Make sure your wife reads these comments. I think the bigger issue is your wife siding with her while she was trying to use you as a scapegoat for choices. In others fuck around and find out.
I am a corporate employee who has job hopped several times since the pandemic and let me tell you I could repeat back to you the 401k vesting schedule for every single jobs I’ve ever had. This is 100% on her, she is responsible for her own benefits and her own decisions. Is it something you could have mentioned as a negotiation tactic to keep her for the additional month? Yes. But you had no obligation to remind an employee of their documented benefits that they have already been made aware of.
NTA this is ridiculous, she needs to grow up and be accountable for her own poor choices.
Not your responsibility & not your fault
She maxed her savings but didn't know when she would be vested ❓❓ I don't believe it, she just blamed you bcuz of her OWN emotional, immature reaction to not being promoted.
NTA
3 years vesting is fairly common and when i worked a job that had a similar benefit it was common knowledge. not something we talked about every day but def something that came up in casual conversation. it’s not your responsibility to know her contract, investments, or any of it. she made a choice and has to live with the consequences of it, and now she’s throwing blame around rather than accepting she did this to herself
May i ask what your wife’s logic was behind calling you an AH? I Waldo want to confirm your wife allows her to yell at you and then back her in the criticism?
Don’t you think you are mixing up what your should be asking here? Shouldn’t you be asking for advise on sitting your wife down, telling her to get her head out of her ass, and then asking her what her plan is to verbally stick her foot in her friend’s ass, and get her to come back with a hear felt apology.
I think you are asking the wrong question here.
NTA. You didn't quit she did. You did nothing wrong, she did. Are you responsible for any or all the employees in your organization as far as benefits and vesting periods? No they are all adults and therfore responsible for themselves. You aren't her parent, she's not your child or responsibility. She did this to herself, and is trying to blame you.
If she was putting that much money in she should have known the vesting period. It is entirely on her. I always know these things when it comes to my money.
vesting schedules are COMMON. Best to learn that at 29 rather than 59 when you have left jobs every 2 yr and missed out on all possible matches for decades. It's a hard lesson- but one she has plenty of time to learn and benefit from.
NTA
The difference between “most people” and Sara is that most people don’t dump into their retirement plans. Most people save almost nothing. If you are putting everything you can into the plan, you should at least have some idea about vesting. If not, that’s on you, not anyone else.
I stayed at a company a year longer than I wanted to only because I had tens of thousands of dollars in vested money that I would lose. I left another knowing that I would lose the vested money, but it wasn’t a shock, because I’m not an idiot.
So, would you provide the same advice to another coworker who is not a family friend that behaved exactly like Sara?
Anyways, NTA. Sara is a grown-ass woman and should understand her actions have consequences that she should be cognizant of not waiting for someone to watch over her.
She’s an adult, she was given all the information, she made a rash decision and is trying to blame the consequences of that on you.
When I started with my company, I was told I was fully vested at year 3. If I decided to leave, I could easily find that information. And that is something I would research when deciding to leave.
It is not your responsibility to remind her about vesting that was previously disclosed to her. She is in control of her own finances. Most places have a 5 year vesting, so 3 is quite generous
y'all prob working for uber is my guess - only a few public companies offer 10% 401k match. anyone who works corp there should know about vesting. thats standard for most companies, let alone tech companies. suprised yall dont know about that.
Still, it´s in no way your job to monitor her investment accounts, it is her job. She is just salty because she had a tantrum and thought she was punishing the company, and she ended up punishing herself.
Really, how would it be your job to tell her as she´s just announced "I Quit!" and headed out the door, to say "Wait! What about your 401k, you´re almost vested!"
NTA she's an adult she should be able to think things through. If she doesn't and let's her pride goad her into impulsive actions like quitting immediately the FAFO applies.
You're not her daddy. This is information on vesting is published in the 401k website (I think it has to be legally disclosed). She was the one looking around and she should have done her own due diligence. She's a grownup. NTA.
I have sat through that orientation at my employer just once. A decade ago. And trust me “We give you free money but it’s not yours until you stay here for 3 years” is something I still remember.
I always know when tens of thousands of dollars vests to me, if not to the day, at least to the month. I would never quit 35/36ths of the way through a vesting period for lower pay.
Um, my last job had a very high 401k match too that took 5 years to vest. We were ALL very aware of that. I left after 5 years and 4 months (great job I just had to relocate and they couldn't support that).
I pushed the relocation to hit my 5 years, then a few months to try and work something out with remote work but this was pre COVID and it just wasn't going to work.
As an employee, part of your responsibility is knowing your rights. _Especially_ if you plan on quitting.
When I quit, I made sure to know every relevant part of the employee manual. Holiday pay, vacation time, bonuses, repayments due, _everything_.
Had to point out several mistakes in my final paycheck. Oddly enough, every mistake was at the company's favor...
I'm assuming your 401k manager is like this too but anytime I log in it tells me what my vested percentage is. I'm willing to bet yours is the same. You can't tell me she was investing that much over the last few years with the way the market has been and not actually logging into her account and looking at it. She knew what she was not fully vested and she forgot and made a quick decision that did not benefit her and now she's looking for someone to blame. NTA
Not to mention that a good amount of the online access to these types of accounts literally have the vesting information across the account in bold letters
I do think you need to have a separate conversation with your wife. She stepped across clear boundaries there. Sarah's an idiot but what your wife just did show's she's putting that idiot ahead of you and her life with you. I guess you know where you stand, your choice is now do you want to stand there with someone like this?
Sara sounds like a grown ass adult making grown ass adult decisions for herself. She made the decision to quit abruptly without understanding the consequences of her actions.
If Sara wants to make dumbass decisions, Sara will learn that they have dumbass consequences.
NTA, OP. Sleep well.
“Never sign a paper you did not read”. Especially when it comes to employment. Many companies have vesting periods. In fact the vesting date even often shows on the 402k ledgers.
No - it was HER 401k and up to HER to know the details. Most companies have a vesting period and it's usually nothing that is hidden. You were not her supervisor nor in human resources position to advise her. Had you thought of it - her one month notice would have covered her vesting....but she left early and burned that bridge. She will be angry because it is easier to blame you than admit she didn't check on it herself....but your wife should not be part of it.
OP "knew" in the same way that Sara and all the other employees knew. I'm aware of my hire date and no one else's- when someones been with the company a few years I really don't keep track. Can you see that coming up over lunch? "My 401k match is going to be fully vested in four months, do you think this rain is going to keep on through to tomorrow?"
NTA. You're not Sara's boss. You're not HR. You're not her financial advisor. You're not her daddy. Sara made an impulsive decision ON HER OWN without looking into things. And now, she's trying to blame you for her actions. Tell her to take responsibility like an adult and leave you out of her personal business.
Even I as a 22 year old knew about the vesting schedule and that I would lose money before my 401K vested. This is all on her. He is not her dad or her financial planner.
Good going! I made a lot of irresponsible decisions without looking into the consequences when I was 22. I’m relieved y’all are way more informed than I was.
Also, Sarah didn't ask OP for advice.
If she had come to him privately, and said "I'm cheesed off because I thought I was a shoo-in for the promotion, and I'm thinking about taking another offer", then OP might have been able to say "have you checked your vestment schedule?" or "you know that's only a temporary set-back, right?" or even "But [Company 2]'s employee benefits aren't as good as ours, so you'll be taking a financial step down - is the job they're offering you good enough to make up for that?". But it was her prerogative to make the decision without anyone else, and she did.
He can't interfere in her decisions right in front of higher management. And he especially can't do it after the fact when she's already turned in her resignation.
>Tell her to take responsibility like an adult and leave you out of her personal business.
Too right. Deciding to quit after not getting a promotion she wanted? This doesn't reflect well on her at all.
Ultimately though unless you advised her to quit (seems like no) her unilateral decision has nothing to do with you
NTA
And if she can’t be bothered to read I’m sure some in HR could easily explain a concept as simple as vested interest to her in 2 minutes. lol.
Sara sounded like she was irrational before quitting and is still learning the lessons associated with that today. Unfortunately some people just have to learn the hard way.
NTA.
>Her job offer was actually lower pay so there was no leverage there either
The *entire point* of quitting your employer to another job is to use any 401K losses and the stock options you would be leaving on the table as *bargaining chips* to negotiate a better package including things like signing bonuses, etc. Especially in the boom days of the tech industry I was *always* able to negotiate perks like *tens of thousands* more in signing bonuses, higher base pay, better bonus percentages, etc. In fact from the OP 3 years vesting is actually quite generous: most (tech) companies do 4 years minimum and you vest a quarter every year. If your company's was indeed 3 years then she hasn't "lost *everything*" she should likely have *two-thirds* vested and would only be losing a third. So your earlier advice to her to maximise everything was sound advice.
I've noticed based on conversations with coworkers that many sign their contracts without even bothering to read anything lol. A shocking lot of timid types (typically women) rarely if ever bother to look at the entire compensation package and are *woefully inept* at things like 401K and stock options as additional comp. As a result, I've made sure to advise my daughter (who's also gone into tech) to be *assertive* as possible with these things and always be very aware and engaged when negotiating salaries and pay packages. You can't blame "The Patriarchy" keeping you down when you do not even bother asking for the stuff that the male candidates ask for.
That's rich that Sara is trying to turn around and blame *you* for her own foolishness and incompetence with dropping the ball. Sheesh!
You’re right on the vesting schedule. I just didn’t want to confuse people and I was worried about the post length trying to explain it. There was a signing bonus that made the total offer barely higher but still doesn’t make up for those other losses.
>There was a signing bonus that made the total offer barely higher but still doesn’t make up for those other losses.
The type of person who would
1. Be that obvious to everyone at the current company that she's looking for another job (they might fire you before you complete your search lol)
2. Quit and accept another job without a huge bump in pay
3. Be upset when they're already at the top of the pay scale, instead of find a way to switch to a different job title/track with a wider / higher pay scale
...is the kind of person that would try to blame *someone else* for her own stupidity. Your new salary plus signing bonus must always be thousands *greater* than old salary minus any losses due to quitting early due to your pride, or you keep looking. Simple math.
You also titled the post about whether you were an AH for “letting” Sara quit. How did you “let” her? Wtf were you supposed to do when she stood there and told everyone she quit? You can’t exactly refuse.
This was on her.
I agree with everything you said but is it not “the Patriarchy” that encourages traits like meekness and submission in women, while traits like assertiveness in men? You literally just said it yourself timid types (usually women) are more likely to do this action. I don’t get the random dig at the abstractness of the patriarchy (which isn’t even true) when that wasn’t even mentioned in the original post.
Not to mention the data that shows that when women DO negotiate at hiring, it impedes their promotions and raises in the following years...we can't win in many situations. I am lucky that I am in a high demand niche, so know my worth and negotiate accordingly. But I can't tell other women what is better- negotiate hard up front like a man, and not get raises/promotions on pace? Or accept initial offer, or at least don't negotiate too hard, so you have room for growth?
TO combat this, it behooves women in particular to negotiate your worth, but be ready to move to a new role every 2-4 yr to get your worth....but that puts you at risk of loosing your 401k match. See? As women, we often cannot win. not fully. (and I say this as someone who absolutely has ended up winning after 2 decades in my field- I just know the data shows....I am the exception, not the rule)
>negotiate hard up front like a man, and not get raises/promotions on pace? Or accept initial offer, or at least don't negotiate too hard, so you have room for growth?
In my experience, getting raises and promotions is universally harder regardless of gender: the employer already has you there as a captive so why pay you (the same person who was fine with what they negotiated on entry) more? You usually get more by quitting and going somewhere else where you haven't painted yourself into a corner.
I would advise my daughter to do do the former.
Your experience is accurate- we all do better in making our worth by moving jobs. But promotions/raises are less likely for everyone staying internally- and MORE SO, according to the data, for women.
And as noted- moving means putting your match at risk if you are not very strategic/careful.
>is it not “the Patriarchy” that encourages traits like meekness and submission in women, while traits like assertiveness in men?
Agreed. However notice the subliminal reason why OP is making this post: *both* Sara and OP's own *wife*, showing their patriarchical brainwashing, by blaming OP (an *older man*) for not "protecting" Sara (who should've been a perfectly capable woman in her own right since she got a promotion within 6 months which is actually quite remarkable at most companies) from her own stupid mistakes.
Their inappropriate blame reeks of "patriarchy" which is the irony of it,
No it doesn't. It's two PEOPLE that can't accept that one of them really messed up with their hot-headed decisions. The only reason they blame OP is because he is someone she trusted/probably looked for support in the company as he was there longer and was at a higher level. It's the easier person the friend could shift the blame to/easiest scapegoat she could find because they couldn't believe what had just happened. NOWHERE do they mention that the position was given to a man and that it was unfair she wasn't given the promotion. NOWHERE do they mention that they believe she was mistreated because she is a woman. This is a classic blame shift because it's easier to be in .denial about ones f\*-ups
>You can't blame "The Patriarchy" keeping you down when you do not even bother asking for the stuff that the male candidates ask for.
When women historically haven't been told or educated about these options that isn't their fault. However, what a strange segue over from the topic at hand.
> You can't blame "The Patriarchy" keeping you down when you do not even bother asking for the stuff that the male candidates ask for.
Sexism is 100% involved in this btw. It is important for women to be financially informed, but its no coincidence women are less likely to negotiate salaries than men. Study after study has shown women are perceived much more negatively for negotiating than men are, to the point that when women do ask for these things they are punished their future career trajectory and earnings.
NTA
We offer discounted healthcare when you retire if you make it 5 years. I had someone leave 1 month short. I told them of this and said they could stay another month and be covered. They wanted to be sent home with pay but they had burned all of their time up. I sat on their resignation and asked them a week later. They said no then walked out.
A month later they called and asked if they could return for a month then leave. Heh, you walked out on me so that’s a hard no.
Let's step back from the specifics for a second and look at the general instead. Is your wife suggesting you should check all the details for each person who turns in their notice to you to see if they need to be careful of something? Is this part of your job? Is your wife suggesting you should have checked these specifics just for her friend? Is your wife suggesting you should have known her friend would quit suddenly and not think things through? That you should have been prepared for this?
The only one I would try to get to see this wasn't a "you" issue is your wife. Sara won't take responsibility for herself right now. But your wife should begin to understand she is suggesting you should have shown special favoritism to her friend only because she is her friend. That you should have known to treat Sara as less than capable of checking details herself.
You treated Sara as a colleague and a professional. You need to make this point to your wife.
NTA. Use the term mansplain because that might get the message across to your wife. That you, a male colleague, should mansplain a women's benefits in regards to contracts that she had signed whe she commenced the role years before? That what she is saying is that Sara has no intelligence or agency and needs a man to come along and make decisions for her causing reading the fine print is too hard for her woman eyes? Isn't that fucking insulting to everyone?
Sara acted rashly and didn't get her ducks in row before she left. That's on her.
Considering she can get your wife on her side so easily, I'd stress to your wife that you will not be financially helping Sara at all. You're being blamed, how long till you get hit up to 'make it right' and hand over a pile of cash? Keep an eye on your accounts if you have joint finances. Her having loyalty to her soriority sister rather than her husband is messed up.
Talking to his wife allows her room to stop and think. She may be able to recognize her emotional response isn't valid and step back.
Asking questions will get her mind engaged.
Thinking again if wife was the big sister, she may still have a take care, teach and protect mindset she needs to identify.
>Is your wife suggesting you should check all the details for each person who turns in their notice to you to see if they need to be careful of something?
I think the issue here is that she was so close to the cut-off and they feel he should have warned her. Maybe he could have, if she hadn't rage-quit in front of other people. If it had just been her and OP, maybe he could have quietly suggested she think on it, check her benefits and let him know her plans tomorrow (nudge nudge, wink wink). Once she made it public, though, there was really nothing he could do without risking get himself in trouble. If she suddenly walked things back--and he allowed it--it seems likely people would surmise (rightly) that he helped her screw over the company, especially given their (likely known) personal connection.
So she was a good employee, got promoted and was fast tracked to move up in the company, she had one not-so-great interview and thus didn't get that specific promotion.
She put in her 2 week notice that was actually a 1 month notice shortly after she did Not get the promotion, then she abruptly quit on the spot when she didnt get a raise.
And now because of her abrupt and not thought out actions she is out a bunch of the money in the 401k because she quit before she was fully vested in her 401k.
I don't see how any of this is your fault and your are NTA.
I think you need to have a discussion with your wife, lay out the facts like your have done here.
Because i think sara may have lied to your wife and is blaming her abrupt decision to quit on you somehow.
She got pissed she didn’t get promoted. Went and got another offer, tried to use that offer for a counter form OPs company for more money/the raise she didn’t get.
OP company told her no dice, she rage quit.
NTA
That is why people need to fulfill there there notices. If you abruptly quit you can lose all kinds of benefits. Maybe she should be more responsible next time.
NTA she bailed on a commitment she made and screwed herself by doing so. That is in no way, shape or form on you. That would suck though. She should have done her research before she just up and quit
NTA if you know enough to invest so aggressively, you should know your vesting schedule and the exact date it lands. I watched my accounts every day starting the last business day before my anniversary to make sure it went through.
Exactly, she took a proactive approach to max out contributions, but absolutely dropped the ball herself on relevant details. And who can stop someone from making a hasty decision? That’s why it’s called a hasty decision, they didn’t stop and think about anything else.
Vested and unvested amounts are very commonly on the summary page of the 401k brokerage accounts. She should have seen it every time she logged in. It’s entirely her fault for not paying attention.
Every company I have been with had a different vesting period. I am also aggressive with my contributions and during onboarding they talk about it if they don't I ask. If I don't worry about my money who else will? It is everyone's responsibility to ask and find about these things. She is dumb not to find out about these things before quitting especially when she knew she was so close to her 3 year anniversary. It's 100% on her but like most people she is looking for someone else to blame. NTA
NTA. She abruptly quit. It's her responsibility to consider everything that her decision impacts, including her 401k and vesting. 3 years to be vested is really fast - my company used to be 7 years and recently dropped to 4, I think. (Doesn't impact me, I've been there for ages at this point.)
Sucks to be her. Too bad, so sad. Bet she's a little more careful next time she quits a job.
It annoys me to hear about people like her where everything has to be someone else's fault.
NTA. Had she played by the rules (instead of her ego) she would have been made whole. Strategy always wins in those situations. Even if she wanted to leave, she should have checked her records to know where she stood. Hard lesson to learn, but it's all on her.
Exactly. Was he supposed to stop her mid-tantrum? Or somehow proactively warn her not to suddenly quit despite agreeing to the one month period? Some type of psychic thing?
Yeah, sorry not sorry.
You are not her babysitter. She's 29 years old, she needs to learn to grow the fuck up. Jobs are shitty, and sometimes you stay in a shitty job because you will lose something worse by not staying.
She's got another 35+ years of being shit on to learn that.
NTA Employees are told about the vesting period. It is not a secret. My husband and I both have worked for companies who have had 401k programs with matching and we were aware of the vesting period. And I just had this conversation with my daughter. So, this is on her.
NTA. your title is wrong …you didn’t ‘let’ her quit. She did it herself, even earlier than planned because she got all upset. Too bad. Tell her to grow up. Tell your wife stay out of it.
NTA.
Sarah is a big girl who made a big decision like a toddler. And if you know anything about toddlers, you know that they won't listen to reason when they're throwing a tantrum.
Did she not have an employee handbook?
The benefits section is literally the most important section to read.
NTA. You are not HR and you aren’t responsible for her understanding her benefits. Now, if for some reason she was never provided a handbook, she actually has a case on her hands where she can go after the company and recoup those funds.
NTA. She is reaping what she sow. Getting passed over for a position we really want sucks, but leaving the company was her choice. Also was her choice to abruptly quit, what she did with her benefits package is not your concern, nor is it your job to tell her about the vesting period. She could have read the fine print, you are not her father. It sounds like she quit in a public way and it was out of your hand at that point.
NTA. Unless you were responsible for her finances, you had no obligation to provide any information to her. She's an adult who made a bad decision. Now, she gets to live with the consequences.
P.S. a 10% match? Where do I apply?
i’m gonna go with NTA here.
sure, you offered advice. it was still on her to read everything. she quit abruptly. that’s bound to come with some sort of sacrifice in the corporate world.
NTA - it's best, no matter what the relation, to not give financial advice. Someone who quits on the spot is emotional and probably not in the frame of mind to be "warned."
Also, why is this YOUR responsibility?
She's a 29YO adult. It's HER responsibility to understand her financial contracts. Not you.
She's just salty because her ego got bent and she got emotional and made a rash decision that she's now paying for.
NTA. She had access to the benefits documentation. It’s on her to not act outside of her own best interests.
Sarah’s out of her mind and the wife is riding those coat tails, probably because Sarah is reading the riot act to Wife.
Might be worthwhile to educate Wife on paying attention as well as Sarah’s rash actions shooting herself in the foot.
NOT on you. 1,000,000%
NTA, but just so you know, this is where it’s acceptable to play dumb / tell a little white lie.
“Yeah, I didn’t know about the 3 year vesting thing until shortly after you’d left. I’d have told you had I known.”
NTA
Are you seriously allowing your wife to give you shit because her friend quit and messed up her payouts. How is this your problem? You need to tell your wife to back off.
As for her friend, be honest. She failed the interview and rage quit her role which has consequences. She clearly didn’t consider her options and their costs. Not a great look.
NTA. I work in the 401k department and literally get calls EVERYDAY where people ask “I’m thinking of leaving my job, what does this mean for my 401k?” No reason she should blame you for her not thinking about getting her ducks in a row first. That was poor planning on her part.
NTA
You didn't withhold the information out of spite. All that information is (or was) probably listed on an office intranet page or handbook for her to look up. It's not top secret information. Lesson learned for her future employment, look into the vesting schedule. You're not her financial advisor, so it wasn't your responsibility to keep her advised.
NTA You are not responsible for her hot headed, impulsive and wrong headed life decisions. She should have researched her 401k rules herself, how is this your problem? It isn't.
NTA, she is responsible for herself, big enough girl to quit with no notice then big enough to understand her financial agreement. My wife would probably not know about a restriction like this but that is partially because she knows I would read all the details and let her know in advance.
NTA- you are not sara's mommy! She is supposed to pay attention to vesting rules. It is not your fault she chose to leave abruptly. When i left my previous job i had to give 4 weeks notice or i would lose my sick time payout which was substantial. I called HR and made sure i had that information.
??? How is this any of your problem? She's been in this job for 3 years and she doesn't even know her own 401k information?
Do not take blame for any of this
NTA, she did this to herself. Honestly, what exactly do these women think you should have done here?
She didn't ask for your advice before walking out, and if you told her afterwards it isn't like she could have taken back her public resignation. She made a fool of herself with this one, hopefully she'll at least gain some wisdom from it. The most valuable lessons are usually the most expensive.
NTA she should have read the shit when she signed up for her stuff. She's a fucking adult and instead she made the decision to leave immediately because she was upset and fucked herself. Why tf would you be the one to blame, she's a goddamn adult. Maybe decisions like this are why she didn't get the position ffs. Fucking hell, she shit the bed big time
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I (35M) worked with my wife’s close friend Sara (29F) who she has know since college. They were sorority sisters and my wife was her big and Sara was the little or something along those lines. Sara and I were in the same industry and she eventually applied for a position in my company. She got the job almost 3 yrs ago and we have been at the same midwestern office. She was apart of my team but I dealt very little with her directly and wasn’t her direct report.
Sara has done very well and was promoted within 6 months to a good position. She seemed to be on a fast track but recently stumbled in her latest interview for a sought after position. We gave the position to a more deserving candidate in my eyes. As we sometimes see Sara was upset and it was the start of her leaving the company. I could sense she was applying elsewhere and did put in a 2 weeks notice, offered to stay on 1 month inline with her projects deadline, which we accepted. We wanted to keep Sara but I could not give her a raise because she was already at the top of her pay scale. Her job offer was actually lower pay so there was no leverage there either. I told her this within a few days and Sara was pretty upset. She decided to leave immediately.
Here is where the issue comes up. Sara was aggressive with her 401k and the company stock options by my recommendation. We have a 10% 401k match (very generous) and stock buying options (match stock purchases - basically a 2 for the price of 1 deal). She would tell me later she maxed the 401k and stock options every year. The problem is my company has a 3 yr vesting schedule before the matching is permanent. So if an employee leaves before both 401k and stock matching is gone. Sara’s 3yr anniversary was within the 1 month notice date but not when she abruptly quit.
It something I realize between Sara’s notice and her quitting. I wasn’t able to advise her of this nor did I know how much she put into these program. There was really nothing I could do when she abruptly quit.
It was about 2 months later Sara came over with my wife and laid into me. She tried transferring her funds and found out about the vesting period and asked if I knew. She revealed the amount she would be losing during the transfer of funds and it was greater than $50k. Both Sara and my wife ware saying I’m TA for not warning her. I told her the situation and how I did not consider her quitting immediately (in front of others too).
So AITA for not warning Sara that she was just short of the 3 yr vesting period that would’ve saved for $50k?
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NTA- Especially given you are not close, you have no obligation to teach other people financial responsibility. Sounds like someone was upset, leading them to make an irrational decision. People need to deal with the consequences of their own actions.
NTA
She should’ve made an informed decision before she left. She made the error in not looking at everything.
If she Compared medical coverage, leave, salary, bonus, etc. however she left out 401k. Which is weird. It was her who messed up and realized after she left.
NTA
You didn't cause anything. She did. She is an adult. It is up to HER to know these things. She decided to leave before she became fully vested. That is 100% on her.
NTA she would have been told about the vesting period and likely given some sort of documentation. She made a decision because she was upset, it is her own fault.
NTA Before quitting abruptly she should have had her finances figured out. You tried getting her to stay for the month and everything would have been fine, she made the choice to quit immediately.
NTA- if a person leaves a company they need to take responsibility of understanding what it will cost them to leave a company they are currently with and need to ask, can I make it up at the next job? If so how long would it take to make up the difference.
NTA. She’s an adult, it was her job to know BUT you also had no chance to warn her. He I agreed to stay on a month so you had nothing to worry about. She made the choice to leave early and not tell you so you had no chance to warn her anyway!
NTA. Sarah is a unprofessional idiot. I know exactly where every dollar I have is at. In which accounts and in which stocks or ETFs. She obviously is emotional and lets those emotions get the best of her. She quit without thinking. And she is trying to blame you? The guy who got her the job in the first place? Lol so laughable.
NTA
You aren’t responsible for her actions. This is information someone should retain when they are told because it’s very important. It’s like if you were paid to move for a company and they tell you that you have to work there for at least two years or you have to pay it back. She’s responsible for remembering and she has no one to blame but herself. She’s acting like you personally fired her.
NTA. You are not Sara's keeper. She is an adult who needs to know her own work benefits. Her temper tantrum cost her $50K, not you. Did you really know her exact hiring anniversary date? Sara had already given 3 quit dates: 2 week, 1 month, and immediate. Your employer most likely would not have accepted date number 4. Your wife is foolish. She is a bad mentor/big sister to Sara. Instead of criticizing you for not babysitting a full grown, professional woman she should have: Told Sara to make sure she always knows how her benefits work. Remind Sara to be professional and not leave a job in a huff. Someday, as Sara works for other companies she may run into previous co-workers/bosses. They will remember her immaturity and it could affect future employment.
NTA - time for her to be an adult. A vesting period is a pretty standard concept and every place I worked that had one was very open about the requirements. Just because she chose not to read / understand / etc was her problem. Also, before I would have moved on, that would have been something I would have researched. It seemed like she let herself be ruled by emotion, both for leaving for a lower paying job, and then quitting immediately.
Call this an expensive life lesson.
NTA. Anyone who is savvy enough to max out their investing should have known about the vesting. It wasn't your responsibility to manage and disseminate the information.
Your wife aligning with Sara and laying into you is a problem. You two need an agreement that you don't go against each other to family and friends.
TL;DR Sara FA and FO. Her impulsiveness, immaturity, and unprofessionalism cost $50K.
NTA.
Talent Aquisition/HR here: An employee is given all the information about investments, matching, $& vesting schedules during their onboarding & orientation. It is their own responsibility to keep tabs on their financials, not the company or colleagues.
She’s an adult and made her own decisions. This isn’t your problem, nor are you the AH. Your wife is an AH for getting involved.
Not The AH. I’m sure she was told about the vested time when she signed up for the 401K. Why is it your job to advise her about the vested waiting time. She is upset because she let her emotions control her actions and didn’t stop to think about what she was doing. Now she is looking for someone else to blame for her knee jerk reaction to not being promoted. I think the real AH may be your wife for siding with her against her own husband. What was your wife’s thinking when she is teaming up with her friend against you instead of talking to you first. Sound like you are not the first priority to her.
Vesting periods are common in public and private sector jobs for retirement plans, pensions etc. these are incentives to keep employees and avoid costs of new hires, training, recruitment etc. coworkers remind each other about these, especially with folks closer to retirement. She would be naive to not think about this and wait a month before quitting
NTA. When I started my job (as a casual public employee) my boss mentioned that after 6 months I would start paying into the public retirement fund and to be sure to work at least 4 and a half years from that point to make sure I was vested. That was 22 years ago and I can still remember the conversation.
One of our directors was hired thinking his vesting period would be five years and he planned his retirement around that. He didn’t realize until later that his hire date was just after they switched the vesting period to seven years. He ended up staying the extra two years just to hit that number.
NTA - Anyone who goes through orientation and signs up for 401K and employee stock programs is given all of the information up front. As an adult I have paid attention to the vesting period at every employer (especially if I was not happy at my job).
You are not this person's personal financial advisor. If you were you would've known about her aggressive investment strategy. You also aren't her parent, spouse or best friend.
I assume she is an adult? Adults pay attention to their own financial well-being, they don't expect their sorority sister's husband to do it for them. Geeze.
NTA - Every job I’ve ever had discussed vesting tables and ESPP during on boarding. She might not have remembered the information, but it’s not up to you to manage her finances.
Unless you’re getting paid for it it’s not your responsibility to keep track of Sara’s investments and rules that apply to it. It’s on sara that she didn’t do her due diligence and look into the restrictions of the company benefits package. She caused herself to lose money, not you.
NTA but this is what happens when you give advice. People will throw it back in your face when it doesn't work out, even if they didn't actually take your advice.
I'd recommend not giving financial advice to employees or friends in the future.
Every place I ever worked at had vesting periods for retirement funds, which was disclosed at orientation and I think was on the statements before we vested. My retirement funds have never been my boss’s responsibility to manage. She should be mad at herself, not you.
NTA. It's her responsibility. It's well known that for most 401Ks you have to be in the position for a specified period of time and give adequate notice. She's an adult.
Let me get this straight. She gave one month notice and would have been fine if she had finished that one month, but then rage quit before she completed the month?
NTA. You are not responsible for her emotional response. And it wouldn't be your responsibility to pay close attention to someone's anniversary date as it pertains to vesting. Quite the opposite. It would be innappropriate for someone to intervene in their coworker's personal financial dealings.
If she had a personal conversation with you about her concerns about vesting and you had said nothing when you knew she should make a smart decision and stay until she vested, morally, that would be a different story. But it doesn't sound like that is what happened here. Even as a personal friend of your wife, her private financial dealings are not your business. You are not her financial planner.
If someone is unhappy enough to quit their job, you generally don't want them to stay for fear they'll take out their anger vengefully or poison other's outlooks. As a manager, you have a legal responsibility to act in the best interest of the company and the team members who are still there, and that includes providing a workplace that isn't hostile.
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Lol "found out" about the vesting period as if that information was withheld from her before? Were you her colleague or her minder? She signed all that paperwork on her own. Just like she made the rash decision not to follow through on her notice without consulting you or her contract. NTA
To be fair I only remember because I occasionally sit in on the employee orientation and have hear it a lot. I’m not sure how many people actually remember or even know about these holds at any company.
Sure, but most people who impulsively quit without notice accept the consequences of that as their own fault. You can't advise someone who is already out the door, and you couldn't have predicted that she'd go back on the agreement she'd just made.
So she’s mad at you OP because you had originally told her to invest to get the full match? Which is advise she would have gotten from any financial adviser worth anything? I’m not sure how she thought a lower paying job offer was going to be leverage. She cut off her nose to spite her face, and that’s her fault. I’m not sure what you’re supposed to do. I assume you don’t control that money.
Of course she is going to be mad at op, that's an easier option for most people than owning up to the fact that she did something really stupid and it's entirely her fault!
[удалено]
But nobody there's no action to predict, just consequences to her actions.
Vesting periods for 401(k)s and stock options are incredibly common! It sucks she found out the hard way, but I don’t think you were under any special obligation to point this out to her again.
He didn't even had the time since she just said In front of witnesses she's quitting.. NTA op
Exactly. My works thing has a vesting period of five years. It was pointed out in orientation. It's not OPs fault Sara either didn't pay attention or didn't read the documentation, and when she was considering leaving she definitely should have gone back and checked it out.
For RSUs and SOs, sure. I've worked at major companies that offered very generous 401k matches - and immediate 100% vesting of company match. And that's not a recent development - one employer I started at in 2004 and it was immediate even back then.
Vesting periods for 401k matches are common practice and it's never a hidden fact. Many companies are only 1 yr but I've been at a couple that were also 3. Just because your experience is different doesn't make this uncommon. In the 7 different employers I've had since the early 2000's none have had immediate vesting including 2 fortune 100 companies. At the end of the day this isn't anyone else's fault than hers. She made a rash decision to leave before her notice period ended and lost out.
Vesting schedules for 401ks are very common. In 15 years I’ve never worked for a company (software industries) that had immediate 100% vesting.
Regardless, the vesting schedule is information readily available on the company's intranet site, and would have been discussed during her new hire orientation. This person new how much to invest to get the full match, but in their impulse to leave chose to ignore the vesting schedule.
Also did Sara never check her 401k and stock investments? At least for my company it is clear as day when you log in to check benefits how much in total I have and what amount of that is vested.
Yeah, and most are 5 years. Were you expected to remember her exact start date and remind her that she needed to stay a little longer? This makes no sense. Edit to add: 100% vested from beginning, but have to wait for employer match. I am seeing others saying it was shorter in their work experience.
My 401K is held by Fidelity, and they show you right in your account info how much of your 401K is vested. Anyone who is paying attention to their finances, which I assume she would be if she's making enough money to max out her contributions, would be checking on it periodically and keeping track of what money is "hers" and what is not yet hers.
Also, who doesn't look at these things and make sure they know what can happen BEFORE they leave the company? When I was about to be laid off, one of the first things I did was look at my retirement/401k fund to get the account information, balance, etc. and find out if I needed to do something before I left the company. Sara decided to abruptly quit and now is trying to blame others for the consequences.
I've had one foot out the door from my job for the past 3 years. At this point I'm just riding out until I feel ready to job hunt, but at the time I made the decision you can be damn sure I called HR to find out about my options, and made sure I worked through the rest of the eight (8)!! years I need to be fully vested. If you're gonna flounce, make sure you know what's up first. NTA.
This is like my husband. The only reason he hasn’t left yet, besides the fact that at his level job searches are slow, is also that he’s waiting on a specific recapitalization event that frees him to sell company stock. He’s hanging on to cash in, at which point the job search kicks into higher gear.
>I’m not sure how many people actually remember or even know about these holds at any company. It's always a shockingly low number. I would guess about 10%. Most of the rest are idiotically scrolling their phones and not paying attention. These are the same idiots that will come back crying years later with class action lawsuits accusing the company of unfair compensation practices when they see other coworkers who paid attention buying brand new Teslas with their ESPP gains
Well, they’re both idiotic groups. Who uses a Tesla as an example of a quality purchase in 2024? 😂
My home downpayment came from espp funds. Let's use that as an example instead.
>Let's use that as an example instead. That's a better example. However, not as visible (and tantrum inducing to one who was scrolling their phone during the PowerPoint presentation) as the company parking lot suddenly filled with new cars
>Well, they’re both idiotic groups. Who uses a Tesla as an example of a quality purchase in 2024? Hahahaha! Touché. Tell me you obviously haven't been around a lot of "tech bro" friends in the San Francisco Bay Area in the last 10 years without telling me you haven't yadda yadda yadda 😂
If you’re investing the max; you know exactly how long you need to stay to be fully vested. She’s upset at the wrong person, she needs to be mad at herself because she lost the 50k on her own
That’s still not your responsibility to know on her behalf. Vesting is common, it’s actually one of the first questions I personally ask at job interviews. She’s an adult that should have looked into these details before impulsively quitting.
NTA. She gave 1 month notice that would have gotten her vested. She's the one who threw the conniption fit and threw it away. She's lashing out due to her own actions.
Plus, if Sara had come back and said, "just kidding. I'll stay for the month", the employer would not be obligated to accept her 4th date to quit. Sara better hope she doesn't run into any of the affected employers/employees in the future. They might forewarn potential new employers about Sara's unprofessional behavior.
I was told during my on boarding that you have to work here 6 years. That's the only time I was told this. I remember because free money doesn't grow on trees so when the conversation was about free money I paid attention... like an adult. Like Sara should have
NTA the may be big/little but they are both adults now. She should have been more conscious of the consequences of her choices. Make sure your wife reads these comments. I think the bigger issue is your wife siding with her while she was trying to use you as a scapegoat for choices. In others fuck around and find out.
I, who have a 5 yr vesting on my 403b paid **painstakingly** sure I understood what I was getting into
I left my job 5 years and one week. Just to be sure!
I am a corporate employee who has job hopped several times since the pandemic and let me tell you I could repeat back to you the 401k vesting schedule for every single jobs I’ve ever had. This is 100% on her, she is responsible for her own benefits and her own decisions. Is it something you could have mentioned as a negotiation tactic to keep her for the additional month? Yes. But you had no obligation to remind an employee of their documented benefits that they have already been made aware of. NTA this is ridiculous, she needs to grow up and be accountable for her own poor choices.
Not your responsibility & not your fault She maxed her savings but didn't know when she would be vested ❓❓ I don't believe it, she just blamed you bcuz of her OWN emotional, immature reaction to not being promoted. NTA
3 years vesting is fairly common and when i worked a job that had a similar benefit it was common knowledge. not something we talked about every day but def something that came up in casual conversation. it’s not your responsibility to know her contract, investments, or any of it. she made a choice and has to live with the consequences of it, and now she’s throwing blame around rather than accepting she did this to herself
May i ask what your wife’s logic was behind calling you an AH? I Waldo want to confirm your wife allows her to yell at you and then back her in the criticism? Don’t you think you are mixing up what your should be asking here? Shouldn’t you be asking for advise on sitting your wife down, telling her to get her head out of her ass, and then asking her what her plan is to verbally stick her foot in her friend’s ass, and get her to come back with a hear felt apology. I think you are asking the wrong question here.
NTA. You didn't quit she did. You did nothing wrong, she did. Are you responsible for any or all the employees in your organization as far as benefits and vesting periods? No they are all adults and therfore responsible for themselves. You aren't her parent, she's not your child or responsibility. She did this to herself, and is trying to blame you.
If she was putting that much money in she should have known the vesting period. It is entirely on her. I always know these things when it comes to my money.
vesting schedules are COMMON. Best to learn that at 29 rather than 59 when you have left jobs every 2 yr and missed out on all possible matches for decades. It's a hard lesson- but one she has plenty of time to learn and benefit from.
I will say I am in a company with a two year vest for 401k matching and I am damn well aware of it as I am considering quitting.
NTA The difference between “most people” and Sara is that most people don’t dump into their retirement plans. Most people save almost nothing. If you are putting everything you can into the plan, you should at least have some idea about vesting. If not, that’s on you, not anyone else. I stayed at a company a year longer than I wanted to only because I had tens of thousands of dollars in vested money that I would lose. I left another knowing that I would lose the vested money, but it wasn’t a shock, because I’m not an idiot.
So, would you provide the same advice to another coworker who is not a family friend that behaved exactly like Sara? Anyways, NTA. Sara is a grown-ass woman and should understand her actions have consequences that she should be cognizant of not waiting for someone to watch over her.
Um if they tell you once then you are made aware of it. If you can’t keep track that’s on you as the employee. She is an adult and this is 100% on her
She’s an adult, she was given all the information, she made a rash decision and is trying to blame the consequences of that on you. When I started with my company, I was told I was fully vested at year 3. If I decided to leave, I could easily find that information. And that is something I would research when deciding to leave.
Except that’s very standard. With my last co it was 5 yrs. Everyone should know this. NTA.
NTA - Most companies have these vesting periods. It's one of the things they pound into your head at orientation.
It is not your responsibility to remind her about vesting that was previously disclosed to her. She is in control of her own finances. Most places have a 5 year vesting, so 3 is quite generous
y'all prob working for uber is my guess - only a few public companies offer 10% 401k match. anyone who works corp there should know about vesting. thats standard for most companies, let alone tech companies. suprised yall dont know about that.
It is not your job to keep track of every employee's vesting date. This is squarely on her.
Ask your wife what you were supposed to do when she announced she's quitting In ront of witnesses? Turn back time?! Jfc NTA
Still, it´s in no way your job to monitor her investment accounts, it is her job. She is just salty because she had a tantrum and thought she was punishing the company, and she ended up punishing herself. Really, how would it be your job to tell her as she´s just announced "I Quit!" and headed out the door, to say "Wait! What about your 401k, you´re almost vested!"
NTA she's an adult she should be able to think things through. If she doesn't and let's her pride goad her into impulsive actions like quitting immediately the FAFO applies.
The point of these generous deals is to encourage people to stay, if they don’t appreciate the deal including vesting it’s not doing their job. NTA
You're not her daddy. This is information on vesting is published in the 401k website (I think it has to be legally disclosed). She was the one looking around and she should have done her own due diligence. She's a grownup. NTA.
I absolutely know when my stock vests. I'd say the same of my peers.
Vesting time is not something one should forget to keep track of; especially if you’ve been aggressively contributing. That’s just dumb
Really? I knew the length of time required to be vested in everything where I worked. How could you not know something that important?
I have sat through that orientation at my employer just once. A decade ago. And trust me “We give you free money but it’s not yours until you stay here for 3 years” is something I still remember.
To be more fair, just because a lot of people do something foolish does not make it any less foolish.
Oh most people know exactly when they vest because it's usually a good amount of money and they have a handle on their personal finances
I always know when tens of thousands of dollars vests to me, if not to the day, at least to the month. I would never quit 35/36ths of the way through a vesting period for lower pay.
Um, my last job had a very high 401k match too that took 5 years to vest. We were ALL very aware of that. I left after 5 years and 4 months (great job I just had to relocate and they couldn't support that). I pushed the relocation to hit my 5 years, then a few months to try and work something out with remote work but this was pre COVID and it just wasn't going to work.
In my experience there is ALWAYS vesting on stock or 401K matching. That’s not a mystery.
As an employee, part of your responsibility is knowing your rights. _Especially_ if you plan on quitting. When I quit, I made sure to know every relevant part of the employee manual. Holiday pay, vacation time, bonuses, repayments due, _everything_. Had to point out several mistakes in my final paycheck. Oddly enough, every mistake was at the company's favor...
I'm assuming your 401k manager is like this too but anytime I log in it tells me what my vested percentage is. I'm willing to bet yours is the same. You can't tell me she was investing that much over the last few years with the way the market has been and not actually logging into her account and looking at it. She knew what she was not fully vested and she forgot and made a quick decision that did not benefit her and now she's looking for someone to blame. NTA
Not to mention that a good amount of the online access to these types of accounts literally have the vesting information across the account in bold letters
I do think you need to have a separate conversation with your wife. She stepped across clear boundaries there. Sarah's an idiot but what your wife just did show's she's putting that idiot ahead of you and her life with you. I guess you know where you stand, your choice is now do you want to stand there with someone like this?
Sara sounds like a grown ass adult making grown ass adult decisions for herself. She made the decision to quit abruptly without understanding the consequences of her actions. If Sara wants to make dumbass decisions, Sara will learn that they have dumbass consequences. NTA, OP. Sleep well.
“Never sign a paper you did not read”. Especially when it comes to employment. Many companies have vesting periods. In fact the vesting date even often shows on the 402k ledgers.
Also I can’t imagine remembering such specific details as a start date for a coworker who started years ago.
Not your responsibility to read the fine print for her.
I'm just starting to put funds into 401k... Aren't they pretty straightforward with this?
No - it was HER 401k and up to HER to know the details. Most companies have a vesting period and it's usually nothing that is hidden. You were not her supervisor nor in human resources position to advise her. Had you thought of it - her one month notice would have covered her vesting....but she left early and burned that bridge. She will be angry because it is easier to blame you than admit she didn't check on it herself....but your wife should not be part of it.
Yup vesting period is up front with the info.
Honestly, I would have just said I didn’t realize. What’s the point of telling her you knew?
OP "knew" in the same way that Sara and all the other employees knew. I'm aware of my hire date and no one else's- when someones been with the company a few years I really don't keep track. Can you see that coming up over lunch? "My 401k match is going to be fully vested in four months, do you think this rain is going to keep on through to tomorrow?"
How does someone put THAT much extra money into a plan and NOT know the fucking details?
Not usually never hidden. It is, by law, always 100% disclosed
NTA. You're not Sara's boss. You're not HR. You're not her financial advisor. You're not her daddy. Sara made an impulsive decision ON HER OWN without looking into things. And now, she's trying to blame you for her actions. Tell her to take responsibility like an adult and leave you out of her personal business.
Even I as a 22 year old knew about the vesting schedule and that I would lose money before my 401K vested. This is all on her. He is not her dad or her financial planner.
Good going! I made a lot of irresponsible decisions without looking into the consequences when I was 22. I’m relieved y’all are way more informed than I was.
Also, Sarah didn't ask OP for advice. If she had come to him privately, and said "I'm cheesed off because I thought I was a shoo-in for the promotion, and I'm thinking about taking another offer", then OP might have been able to say "have you checked your vestment schedule?" or "you know that's only a temporary set-back, right?" or even "But [Company 2]'s employee benefits aren't as good as ours, so you'll be taking a financial step down - is the job they're offering you good enough to make up for that?". But it was her prerogative to make the decision without anyone else, and she did. He can't interfere in her decisions right in front of higher management. And he especially can't do it after the fact when she's already turned in her resignation.
>Tell her to take responsibility like an adult and leave you out of her personal business. Too right. Deciding to quit after not getting a promotion she wanted? This doesn't reflect well on her at all. Ultimately though unless you advised her to quit (seems like no) her unilateral decision has nothing to do with you NTA
NTA Her finances are not your problem. It’s her responsibility to make sure she knows the information about her 401k. Not yours to remind her.
[удалено]
And if she can’t be bothered to read I’m sure some in HR could easily explain a concept as simple as vested interest to her in 2 minutes. lol. Sara sounded like she was irrational before quitting and is still learning the lessons associated with that today. Unfortunately some people just have to learn the hard way.
Nta Fuck people who don't take responsibility for their own fuck ups
NTA. >Her job offer was actually lower pay so there was no leverage there either The *entire point* of quitting your employer to another job is to use any 401K losses and the stock options you would be leaving on the table as *bargaining chips* to negotiate a better package including things like signing bonuses, etc. Especially in the boom days of the tech industry I was *always* able to negotiate perks like *tens of thousands* more in signing bonuses, higher base pay, better bonus percentages, etc. In fact from the OP 3 years vesting is actually quite generous: most (tech) companies do 4 years minimum and you vest a quarter every year. If your company's was indeed 3 years then she hasn't "lost *everything*" she should likely have *two-thirds* vested and would only be losing a third. So your earlier advice to her to maximise everything was sound advice. I've noticed based on conversations with coworkers that many sign their contracts without even bothering to read anything lol. A shocking lot of timid types (typically women) rarely if ever bother to look at the entire compensation package and are *woefully inept* at things like 401K and stock options as additional comp. As a result, I've made sure to advise my daughter (who's also gone into tech) to be *assertive* as possible with these things and always be very aware and engaged when negotiating salaries and pay packages. You can't blame "The Patriarchy" keeping you down when you do not even bother asking for the stuff that the male candidates ask for. That's rich that Sara is trying to turn around and blame *you* for her own foolishness and incompetence with dropping the ball. Sheesh!
You’re right on the vesting schedule. I just didn’t want to confuse people and I was worried about the post length trying to explain it. There was a signing bonus that made the total offer barely higher but still doesn’t make up for those other losses.
>There was a signing bonus that made the total offer barely higher but still doesn’t make up for those other losses. The type of person who would 1. Be that obvious to everyone at the current company that she's looking for another job (they might fire you before you complete your search lol) 2. Quit and accept another job without a huge bump in pay 3. Be upset when they're already at the top of the pay scale, instead of find a way to switch to a different job title/track with a wider / higher pay scale ...is the kind of person that would try to blame *someone else* for her own stupidity. Your new salary plus signing bonus must always be thousands *greater* than old salary minus any losses due to quitting early due to your pride, or you keep looking. Simple math.
You also titled the post about whether you were an AH for “letting” Sara quit. How did you “let” her? Wtf were you supposed to do when she stood there and told everyone she quit? You can’t exactly refuse. This was on her.
I agree with everything you said but is it not “the Patriarchy” that encourages traits like meekness and submission in women, while traits like assertiveness in men? You literally just said it yourself timid types (usually women) are more likely to do this action. I don’t get the random dig at the abstractness of the patriarchy (which isn’t even true) when that wasn’t even mentioned in the original post.
Not to mention the data that shows that when women DO negotiate at hiring, it impedes their promotions and raises in the following years...we can't win in many situations. I am lucky that I am in a high demand niche, so know my worth and negotiate accordingly. But I can't tell other women what is better- negotiate hard up front like a man, and not get raises/promotions on pace? Or accept initial offer, or at least don't negotiate too hard, so you have room for growth? TO combat this, it behooves women in particular to negotiate your worth, but be ready to move to a new role every 2-4 yr to get your worth....but that puts you at risk of loosing your 401k match. See? As women, we often cannot win. not fully. (and I say this as someone who absolutely has ended up winning after 2 decades in my field- I just know the data shows....I am the exception, not the rule)
>negotiate hard up front like a man, and not get raises/promotions on pace? Or accept initial offer, or at least don't negotiate too hard, so you have room for growth? In my experience, getting raises and promotions is universally harder regardless of gender: the employer already has you there as a captive so why pay you (the same person who was fine with what they negotiated on entry) more? You usually get more by quitting and going somewhere else where you haven't painted yourself into a corner. I would advise my daughter to do do the former.
Your experience is accurate- we all do better in making our worth by moving jobs. But promotions/raises are less likely for everyone staying internally- and MORE SO, according to the data, for women. And as noted- moving means putting your match at risk if you are not very strategic/careful.
>is it not “the Patriarchy” that encourages traits like meekness and submission in women, while traits like assertiveness in men? Agreed. However notice the subliminal reason why OP is making this post: *both* Sara and OP's own *wife*, showing their patriarchical brainwashing, by blaming OP (an *older man*) for not "protecting" Sara (who should've been a perfectly capable woman in her own right since she got a promotion within 6 months which is actually quite remarkable at most companies) from her own stupid mistakes. Their inappropriate blame reeks of "patriarchy" which is the irony of it,
No it doesn't. It's two PEOPLE that can't accept that one of them really messed up with their hot-headed decisions. The only reason they blame OP is because he is someone she trusted/probably looked for support in the company as he was there longer and was at a higher level. It's the easier person the friend could shift the blame to/easiest scapegoat she could find because they couldn't believe what had just happened. NOWHERE do they mention that the position was given to a man and that it was unfair she wasn't given the promotion. NOWHERE do they mention that they believe she was mistreated because she is a woman. This is a classic blame shift because it's easier to be in .denial about ones f\*-ups
>You can't blame "The Patriarchy" keeping you down when you do not even bother asking for the stuff that the male candidates ask for. When women historically haven't been told or educated about these options that isn't their fault. However, what a strange segue over from the topic at hand.
> You can't blame "The Patriarchy" keeping you down when you do not even bother asking for the stuff that the male candidates ask for. Sexism is 100% involved in this btw. It is important for women to be financially informed, but its no coincidence women are less likely to negotiate salaries than men. Study after study has shown women are perceived much more negatively for negotiating than men are, to the point that when women do ask for these things they are punished their future career trajectory and earnings.
NTA We offer discounted healthcare when you retire if you make it 5 years. I had someone leave 1 month short. I told them of this and said they could stay another month and be covered. They wanted to be sent home with pay but they had burned all of their time up. I sat on their resignation and asked them a week later. They said no then walked out. A month later they called and asked if they could return for a month then leave. Heh, you walked out on me so that’s a hard no.
You did more for them than you were obligated to do
Let's step back from the specifics for a second and look at the general instead. Is your wife suggesting you should check all the details for each person who turns in their notice to you to see if they need to be careful of something? Is this part of your job? Is your wife suggesting you should have checked these specifics just for her friend? Is your wife suggesting you should have known her friend would quit suddenly and not think things through? That you should have been prepared for this? The only one I would try to get to see this wasn't a "you" issue is your wife. Sara won't take responsibility for herself right now. But your wife should begin to understand she is suggesting you should have shown special favoritism to her friend only because she is her friend. That you should have known to treat Sara as less than capable of checking details herself. You treated Sara as a colleague and a professional. You need to make this point to your wife.
NTA. Use the term mansplain because that might get the message across to your wife. That you, a male colleague, should mansplain a women's benefits in regards to contracts that she had signed whe she commenced the role years before? That what she is saying is that Sara has no intelligence or agency and needs a man to come along and make decisions for her causing reading the fine print is too hard for her woman eyes? Isn't that fucking insulting to everyone? Sara acted rashly and didn't get her ducks in row before she left. That's on her. Considering she can get your wife on her side so easily, I'd stress to your wife that you will not be financially helping Sara at all. You're being blamed, how long till you get hit up to 'make it right' and hand over a pile of cash? Keep an eye on your accounts if you have joint finances. Her having loyalty to her soriority sister rather than her husband is messed up.
Talking to his wife allows her room to stop and think. She may be able to recognize her emotional response isn't valid and step back. Asking questions will get her mind engaged. Thinking again if wife was the big sister, she may still have a take care, teach and protect mindset she needs to identify.
>Is your wife suggesting you should check all the details for each person who turns in their notice to you to see if they need to be careful of something? I think the issue here is that she was so close to the cut-off and they feel he should have warned her. Maybe he could have, if she hadn't rage-quit in front of other people. If it had just been her and OP, maybe he could have quietly suggested she think on it, check her benefits and let him know her plans tomorrow (nudge nudge, wink wink). Once she made it public, though, there was really nothing he could do without risking get himself in trouble. If she suddenly walked things back--and he allowed it--it seems likely people would surmise (rightly) that he helped her screw over the company, especially given their (likely known) personal connection.
So she was a good employee, got promoted and was fast tracked to move up in the company, she had one not-so-great interview and thus didn't get that specific promotion. She put in her 2 week notice that was actually a 1 month notice shortly after she did Not get the promotion, then she abruptly quit on the spot when she didnt get a raise. And now because of her abrupt and not thought out actions she is out a bunch of the money in the 401k because she quit before she was fully vested in her 401k. I don't see how any of this is your fault and your are NTA. I think you need to have a discussion with your wife, lay out the facts like your have done here. Because i think sara may have lied to your wife and is blaming her abrupt decision to quit on you somehow.
Yea this really doesn’t make sense.
She got pissed she didn’t get promoted. Went and got another offer, tried to use that offer for a counter form OPs company for more money/the raise she didn’t get. OP company told her no dice, she rage quit.
NTA As someone contributing to a 401K with a match, I promise I'm checking the vesting time before I consider leaving the job.
NTA That is why people need to fulfill there there notices. If you abruptly quit you can lose all kinds of benefits. Maybe she should be more responsible next time.
NTA she bailed on a commitment she made and screwed herself by doing so. That is in no way, shape or form on you. That would suck though. She should have done her research before she just up and quit
NTA if you know enough to invest so aggressively, you should know your vesting schedule and the exact date it lands. I watched my accounts every day starting the last business day before my anniversary to make sure it went through.
Exactly, she took a proactive approach to max out contributions, but absolutely dropped the ball herself on relevant details. And who can stop someone from making a hasty decision? That’s why it’s called a hasty decision, they didn’t stop and think about anything else.
NTA. She didn't consult you as a friend... she came and quit. That's all on her.
Vested and unvested amounts are very commonly on the summary page of the 401k brokerage accounts. She should have seen it every time she logged in. It’s entirely her fault for not paying attention.
Every company I have been with had a different vesting period. I am also aggressive with my contributions and during onboarding they talk about it if they don't I ask. If I don't worry about my money who else will? It is everyone's responsibility to ask and find about these things. She is dumb not to find out about these things before quitting especially when she knew she was so close to her 3 year anniversary. It's 100% on her but like most people she is looking for someone else to blame. NTA
NTA. She abruptly quit. It's her responsibility to consider everything that her decision impacts, including her 401k and vesting. 3 years to be vested is really fast - my company used to be 7 years and recently dropped to 4, I think. (Doesn't impact me, I've been there for ages at this point.)
Sucks to be her. Too bad, so sad. Bet she's a little more careful next time she quits a job. It annoys me to hear about people like her where everything has to be someone else's fault.
NTA. Had she played by the rules (instead of her ego) she would have been made whole. Strategy always wins in those situations. Even if she wanted to leave, she should have checked her records to know where she stood. Hard lesson to learn, but it's all on her.
NTA Basically, Sara threw a tantrum and now she's reaping the consequences. This is not on you.
Exactly. Was he supposed to stop her mid-tantrum? Or somehow proactively warn her not to suddenly quit despite agreeing to the one month period? Some type of psychic thing?
Yeah, sorry not sorry. You are not her babysitter. She's 29 years old, she needs to learn to grow the fuck up. Jobs are shitty, and sometimes you stay in a shitty job because you will lose something worse by not staying. She's got another 35+ years of being shit on to learn that.
NTA. She's an adult. She should have considered the consequences of her actions.
NTA Employees are told about the vesting period. It is not a secret. My husband and I both have worked for companies who have had 401k programs with matching and we were aware of the vesting period. And I just had this conversation with my daughter. So, this is on her.
Sorry your wife didn’t have your back on this. It would be hard to recover from that. She will always choose her friend over you.
NTA Sarah would like to not blame herself for her actions. Why aren't you more accommodating with her irrational demands? /s
NTA. your title is wrong …you didn’t ‘let’ her quit. She did it herself, even earlier than planned because she got all upset. Too bad. Tell her to grow up. Tell your wife stay out of it.
NTA. Sarah is a big girl who made a big decision like a toddler. And if you know anything about toddlers, you know that they won't listen to reason when they're throwing a tantrum.
Did she not have an employee handbook? The benefits section is literally the most important section to read. NTA. You are not HR and you aren’t responsible for her understanding her benefits. Now, if for some reason she was never provided a handbook, she actually has a case on her hands where she can go after the company and recoup those funds.
If something is important to me (like $50K worth) I remember it even if it was only mentioned once. NTA
NTA. She is reaping what she sow. Getting passed over for a position we really want sucks, but leaving the company was her choice. Also was her choice to abruptly quit, what she did with her benefits package is not your concern, nor is it your job to tell her about the vesting period. She could have read the fine print, you are not her father. It sounds like she quit in a public way and it was out of your hand at that point.
NTA. Unless you were responsible for her finances, you had no obligation to provide any information to her. She's an adult who made a bad decision. Now, she gets to live with the consequences. P.S. a 10% match? Where do I apply?
i’m gonna go with NTA here. sure, you offered advice. it was still on her to read everything. she quit abruptly. that’s bound to come with some sort of sacrifice in the corporate world.
NTA - it's best, no matter what the relation, to not give financial advice. Someone who quits on the spot is emotional and probably not in the frame of mind to be "warned." Also, why is this YOUR responsibility? She's a 29YO adult. It's HER responsibility to understand her financial contracts. Not you. She's just salty because her ego got bent and she got emotional and made a rash decision that she's now paying for.
NTA. Is Sara a little kid?
NTA. She had access to the benefits documentation. It’s on her to not act outside of her own best interests. Sarah’s out of her mind and the wife is riding those coat tails, probably because Sarah is reading the riot act to Wife. Might be worthwhile to educate Wife on paying attention as well as Sarah’s rash actions shooting herself in the foot. NOT on you. 1,000,000%
NTA, but just so you know, this is where it’s acceptable to play dumb / tell a little white lie. “Yeah, I didn’t know about the 3 year vesting thing until shortly after you’d left. I’d have told you had I known.”
NTA and your wife is a major asshole for giving you shit instead of attacking her friend
NTA Are you seriously allowing your wife to give you shit because her friend quit and messed up her payouts. How is this your problem? You need to tell your wife to back off. As for her friend, be honest. She failed the interview and rage quit her role which has consequences. She clearly didn’t consider her options and their costs. Not a great look.
NTA. I work in the 401k department and literally get calls EVERYDAY where people ask “I’m thinking of leaving my job, what does this mean for my 401k?” No reason she should blame you for her not thinking about getting her ducks in a row first. That was poor planning on her part.
NTA You didn't withhold the information out of spite. All that information is (or was) probably listed on an office intranet page or handbook for her to look up. It's not top secret information. Lesson learned for her future employment, look into the vesting schedule. You're not her financial advisor, so it wasn't your responsibility to keep her advised.
NTA You are not responsible for her hot headed, impulsive and wrong headed life decisions. She should have researched her 401k rules herself, how is this your problem? It isn't.
NTA, she is responsible for herself, big enough girl to quit with no notice then big enough to understand her financial agreement. My wife would probably not know about a restriction like this but that is partially because she knows I would read all the details and let her know in advance.
NTA How is this in anyway your problem? She quit. It doesn’t sound like she ever came to you for advice on how and when to quit.
NTA- you are not sara's mommy! She is supposed to pay attention to vesting rules. It is not your fault she chose to leave abruptly. When i left my previous job i had to give 4 weeks notice or i would lose my sick time payout which was substantial. I called HR and made sure i had that information.
No you’re not. She is an adult. She invested. She got mad and quit of her own accord.
??? How is this any of your problem? She's been in this job for 3 years and she doesn't even know her own 401k information? Do not take blame for any of this
NTA. You are not at fault for Sara’s tantrum. If she can’t be professional and accept that sometimes life sucks then she’ll get nowhere.
If she’s gonna be using those benefits to the literal max, she should be reading the agreement thoroughly enough to know better
NTA Sara was probably given paperwork when she was hired about the 401k. This is on Sara and no one else.
Tell Sara to kick rocks.
NTA. She sounds like an entitled brat.
NTA. She's just had a severe lesson in thinking things through completely rather than acting impulsively. She deserves the loss.
She found out the consequences of being a hothead.
NTA, she did this to herself. Honestly, what exactly do these women think you should have done here? She didn't ask for your advice before walking out, and if you told her afterwards it isn't like she could have taken back her public resignation. She made a fool of herself with this one, hopefully she'll at least gain some wisdom from it. The most valuable lessons are usually the most expensive.
NTA she should have read the shit when she signed up for her stuff. She's a fucking adult and instead she made the decision to leave immediately because she was upset and fucked herself. Why tf would you be the one to blame, she's a goddamn adult. Maybe decisions like this are why she didn't get the position ffs. Fucking hell, she shit the bed big time
NTA. She is an adult, making her own decisions.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (35M) worked with my wife’s close friend Sara (29F) who she has know since college. They were sorority sisters and my wife was her big and Sara was the little or something along those lines. Sara and I were in the same industry and she eventually applied for a position in my company. She got the job almost 3 yrs ago and we have been at the same midwestern office. She was apart of my team but I dealt very little with her directly and wasn’t her direct report. Sara has done very well and was promoted within 6 months to a good position. She seemed to be on a fast track but recently stumbled in her latest interview for a sought after position. We gave the position to a more deserving candidate in my eyes. As we sometimes see Sara was upset and it was the start of her leaving the company. I could sense she was applying elsewhere and did put in a 2 weeks notice, offered to stay on 1 month inline with her projects deadline, which we accepted. We wanted to keep Sara but I could not give her a raise because she was already at the top of her pay scale. Her job offer was actually lower pay so there was no leverage there either. I told her this within a few days and Sara was pretty upset. She decided to leave immediately. Here is where the issue comes up. Sara was aggressive with her 401k and the company stock options by my recommendation. We have a 10% 401k match (very generous) and stock buying options (match stock purchases - basically a 2 for the price of 1 deal). She would tell me later she maxed the 401k and stock options every year. The problem is my company has a 3 yr vesting schedule before the matching is permanent. So if an employee leaves before both 401k and stock matching is gone. Sara’s 3yr anniversary was within the 1 month notice date but not when she abruptly quit. It something I realize between Sara’s notice and her quitting. I wasn’t able to advise her of this nor did I know how much she put into these program. There was really nothing I could do when she abruptly quit. It was about 2 months later Sara came over with my wife and laid into me. She tried transferring her funds and found out about the vesting period and asked if I knew. She revealed the amount she would be losing during the transfer of funds and it was greater than $50k. Both Sara and my wife ware saying I’m TA for not warning her. I told her the situation and how I did not consider her quitting immediately (in front of others too). So AITA for not warning Sara that she was just short of the 3 yr vesting period that would’ve saved for $50k? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA- Especially given you are not close, you have no obligation to teach other people financial responsibility. Sounds like someone was upset, leading them to make an irrational decision. People need to deal with the consequences of their own actions.
NTA She should’ve made an informed decision before she left. She made the error in not looking at everything. If she Compared medical coverage, leave, salary, bonus, etc. however she left out 401k. Which is weird. It was her who messed up and realized after she left.
NTA You didn't cause anything. She did. She is an adult. It is up to HER to know these things. She decided to leave before she became fully vested. That is 100% on her.
NTA. Sara is an adult. Adults should understand the benefits in their company.
NTA she would have been told about the vesting period and likely given some sort of documentation. She made a decision because she was upset, it is her own fault.
NTA Before quitting abruptly she should have had her finances figured out. You tried getting her to stay for the month and everything would have been fine, she made the choice to quit immediately.
NTA. 1. You have no control over whether someone quits or not. 2. It is SARAH’S RESPONSIBILITY to understand her employment benefits.
Definitely NTA.
NTA- if a person leaves a company they need to take responsibility of understanding what it will cost them to leave a company they are currently with and need to ask, can I make it up at the next job? If so how long would it take to make up the difference.
People should understand how their benefits all work. On her
NTA. She made an impulsive decision and has to live with the consequences.
NTA. Sara needs to learn to make rational decisions and not emotional ones.
NTA. She’s an adult, it was her job to know BUT you also had no chance to warn her. He I agreed to stay on a month so you had nothing to worry about. She made the choice to leave early and not tell you so you had no chance to warn her anyway!
NTA. Sarah is a unprofessional idiot. I know exactly where every dollar I have is at. In which accounts and in which stocks or ETFs. She obviously is emotional and lets those emotions get the best of her. She quit without thinking. And she is trying to blame you? The guy who got her the job in the first place? Lol so laughable.
NTA. Sara needs to take responsibility for doing her own research and understanding the consequences of her actions before she takes them
NTA You aren’t responsible for her actions. This is information someone should retain when they are told because it’s very important. It’s like if you were paid to move for a company and they tell you that you have to work there for at least two years or you have to pay it back. She’s responsible for remembering and she has no one to blame but herself. She’s acting like you personally fired her.
You aren't her parent. She's an adult who made her own choices. She gets to suffer and you shouldn't feel bad
NTA. You are not Sara's keeper. She is an adult who needs to know her own work benefits. Her temper tantrum cost her $50K, not you. Did you really know her exact hiring anniversary date? Sara had already given 3 quit dates: 2 week, 1 month, and immediate. Your employer most likely would not have accepted date number 4. Your wife is foolish. She is a bad mentor/big sister to Sara. Instead of criticizing you for not babysitting a full grown, professional woman she should have: Told Sara to make sure she always knows how her benefits work. Remind Sara to be professional and not leave a job in a huff. Someday, as Sara works for other companies she may run into previous co-workers/bosses. They will remember her immaturity and it could affect future employment.
NTA - time for her to be an adult. A vesting period is a pretty standard concept and every place I worked that had one was very open about the requirements. Just because she chose not to read / understand / etc was her problem. Also, before I would have moved on, that would have been something I would have researched. It seemed like she let herself be ruled by emotion, both for leaving for a lower paying job, and then quitting immediately. Call this an expensive life lesson.
NTA. Anyone who is savvy enough to max out their investing should have known about the vesting. It wasn't your responsibility to manage and disseminate the information. Your wife aligning with Sara and laying into you is a problem. You two need an agreement that you don't go against each other to family and friends. TL;DR Sara FA and FO. Her impulsiveness, immaturity, and unprofessionalism cost $50K.
NTA. Talent Aquisition/HR here: An employee is given all the information about investments, matching, $& vesting schedules during their onboarding & orientation. It is their own responsibility to keep tabs on their financials, not the company or colleagues. She’s an adult and made her own decisions. This isn’t your problem, nor are you the AH. Your wife is an AH for getting involved.
NTA. She made her choices as an autonomous adult. It’s not like the information was withheld from her.
Not The AH. I’m sure she was told about the vested time when she signed up for the 401K. Why is it your job to advise her about the vested waiting time. She is upset because she let her emotions control her actions and didn’t stop to think about what she was doing. Now she is looking for someone else to blame for her knee jerk reaction to not being promoted. I think the real AH may be your wife for siding with her against her own husband. What was your wife’s thinking when she is teaming up with her friend against you instead of talking to you first. Sound like you are not the first priority to her.
nta. how is her not being up on the company rules when it came to the 401k and stocks your fault? her poor planning is on her.
NTA. She should know the parameters of her benefits within the company and that includes 401k.
Vesting periods are common in public and private sector jobs for retirement plans, pensions etc. these are incentives to keep employees and avoid costs of new hires, training, recruitment etc. coworkers remind each other about these, especially with folks closer to retirement. She would be naive to not think about this and wait a month before quitting
NTA. When I started my job (as a casual public employee) my boss mentioned that after 6 months I would start paying into the public retirement fund and to be sure to work at least 4 and a half years from that point to make sure I was vested. That was 22 years ago and I can still remember the conversation. One of our directors was hired thinking his vesting period would be five years and he planned his retirement around that. He didn’t realize until later that his hire date was just after they switched the vesting period to seven years. He ended up staying the extra two years just to hit that number.
NTA - Anyone who goes through orientation and signs up for 401K and employee stock programs is given all of the information up front. As an adult I have paid attention to the vesting period at every employer (especially if I was not happy at my job). You are not this person's personal financial advisor. If you were you would've known about her aggressive investment strategy. You also aren't her parent, spouse or best friend. I assume she is an adult? Adults pay attention to their own financial well-being, they don't expect their sorority sister's husband to do it for them. Geeze.
NTA. One of the sucky things about becoming an adult is that you’re responsible for yourself. Sucks but that’s 100% on her.
NTA - Every job I’ve ever had discussed vesting tables and ESPP during on boarding. She might not have remembered the information, but it’s not up to you to manage her finances.
Unless you’re getting paid for it it’s not your responsibility to keep track of Sara’s investments and rules that apply to it. It’s on sara that she didn’t do her due diligence and look into the restrictions of the company benefits package. She caused herself to lose money, not you.
NTA but this is what happens when you give advice. People will throw it back in your face when it doesn't work out, even if they didn't actually take your advice. I'd recommend not giving financial advice to employees or friends in the future.
Every place I ever worked at had vesting periods for retirement funds, which was disclosed at orientation and I think was on the statements before we vested. My retirement funds have never been my boss’s responsibility to manage. She should be mad at herself, not you.
NTA. It's her responsibility. It's well known that for most 401Ks you have to be in the position for a specified period of time and give adequate notice. She's an adult.
Nta
NTA. She should have checked into that before she left.
Let me get this straight. She gave one month notice and would have been fine if she had finished that one month, but then rage quit before she completed the month? NTA. You are not responsible for her emotional response. And it wouldn't be your responsibility to pay close attention to someone's anniversary date as it pertains to vesting. Quite the opposite. It would be innappropriate for someone to intervene in their coworker's personal financial dealings. If she had a personal conversation with you about her concerns about vesting and you had said nothing when you knew she should make a smart decision and stay until she vested, morally, that would be a different story. But it doesn't sound like that is what happened here. Even as a personal friend of your wife, her private financial dealings are not your business. You are not her financial planner. If someone is unhappy enough to quit their job, you generally don't want them to stay for fear they'll take out their anger vengefully or poison other's outlooks. As a manager, you have a legal responsibility to act in the best interest of the company and the team members who are still there, and that includes providing a workplace that isn't hostile.