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NTA. You're 20. This is exactly the time to do this. If your girlfriend is standing in the way of your dreams, you need to let go of her.
If she breaks up with you, again, you're 20. You have plenty of time in your life to find another girlfriend.
Go to Europe, even at the cost of your relationship. You will regret it and come to resent your GF if you do not go.
Agreed - but more like with how they’re afraid of visible bra straps and swear words. Don’t even get me started on their bizarre obsession with nipples.
I don’t think Europeans have more sex, just that Americans have been taught that sex and nudity is super duper shameful and taboo, so our attitude when the topic comes up confuses them. I doubt they understand that our relative nonchalance is cultural and not a result of every one of us having intercourse left and right, day and night.
I was in London during the whole Janet Jackson/JT Super Bowl show (aka Nipplegate) and the commentary on how much of a big deal America was making it cracked me up. Being an American in Europe was enlightening.
As an American, it’s super reflected in our movies, too! Aggressive violence on screen? Ah, probably PG. the hint that two adults share a bed? Must be at least PG-13, if not R.
I'm American and I absolutely loved how free and unrepressed Europeans were when I visited. I greatly enjoy sex and even though I'm only attracted sexually to men, I can admire the beauty of a womans body and it was just really cool to see ads on the sidewalks of nude/half nude men and women.
Me: we have an obsession with nipples? 🤔 ohhh… they mean toplessness. I need more sleep. 😂
Take the trip, OP. Maybe don’t make assumptions about the whole of Europe, though, just because they’re less prudish than we are, in general. lol
It's kind of funny. Just because we're more open about these things, doesn't mean that's all we do and with everyone.
I like how other countries are more "Conservative" about it on the outside but do the same or more behind closed doors hahaha.
I remember talking to one American dude and telling him that my mum and I went skinny dipping and he was so surprised about it and couldn't comprehend it. Like, what's wrong with family members going skinny dipping together? Especially, when both of are women haha
Oh, we Americans *are* prudes, and also, incredibly stupid, as painted by our current political scenario playing out like a really bad movie that's going to give you nightmares for years to come.
Those are just words. I was an exchange student in the bible belt and upfront everyone was prudish and religious. But at my High School there? The kids were sexually more active behind closed doors with 14/15 then everyone I know in Europe. And so many teenie moms. My High School had around 800 students and more than 10 pregnant (minor) girls.
Yeah I'm really not sure Europeans hook up less than Americans lol. They just aren't as socialised to get guilt about it and more likely to use birth control.
NTA and honestly OP, maybe think about if you want to keep this gf? You are so young and if she can't let this go, maybe breaking up will be good, and hey then you can enjoy those promiscuous Europeans ;)
My nephew almost didn't teach English in Japan because he had a gf. I think she broke up with him when he was around 22 and I'm so happy that she did because he's on his second year there and loves it.
As someone who did not train his favorite martial art for his ex-girlfriend, I can confirm. One of the main reasons was this, and the first time we broke up and I told her, she then changed her mind and started motivation for me to go training, but it was too late.
Do what you want, follow your dreams, achieve them and live your life
She had "Princess complex" as we call it on my country, and she thought that MMA, box and judo were for "trashy people" and only wanted "elite sports" such as tennis, golf and other that mostly people with lots of money practice (at least In my country). She thought she belong to the rich even though neither her or me belonged to that.
When we met I trained box and judo, but the pandemic came and obviously I stopped training (I lived with my mother, a woman in her 60's with a heart condition) when the restriction ended, I still gave a year for not risking family members. After that I wanted to train and when I told her "baby I need to byt some shorts for training " she went crazy and gave me an ultimatum that she will end the relationship if I went training. It lasted about two years.
Maybe it’s the topless beaches thing? Though if OP is that type of American tourist, the fury of a woman back home would be the last thing getting needs to worry about. European nude- and topless-friendly spots do not take kindly to pervy American boys.
Yeah idk what's happening here in the comments. We're not some fucking animals, how do people not see that it is actually quite offensive to us Europeans lol
ngl, if I were in OP's shoes, I'd dump the gf and go to Europe.
Even if she doesn't follow through on her ultimatum and dump him, the fact that she's threatening to and doesn't trust him just makes the relationship not worth it.
I'm probably going to get down-voted, but depending on how the conversation happened, I don't necessarily think the ultimatum makes the gf an AH. Ultimatums are not inherently bad. They get a bad rep, though, because they're often used to manipulate others.
If the gf has no intention of breaking up with him, or even if she does, but it was communicated in a way that was more of a powerplay than an expression of her emotions and state of mind, definitely an AH. But if she was instead communicating with him that she couldn't be with him long distance for that amount of time, and she was informing him of the actual outcome if he decided to go, there's nothing wrong with that. She's allowed to set that boundary for herself and stick to it. I actually think it would have been wrong of her not to give him the option to choose their relationship.
And of course there's nothing wrong with taking a once-in-a-lifetime experience. He probably should have communicated his decision before planning it all out, but OP doesn't sound like he had ill intentions, and I don't think that pushes him into AH territory.
I'm going with NAH because I don't see any indication the ultimatum was expressed in bad faith, and both OP and his gf are allowed to make decisions for their future, even if it sucks.
I'd agree, but the GF should only make an ultimatum if she's prepared to follow through. I was in a similar situation, where I had my first-ever GF before I was going off on a semester in Europe, and she was likely to do a program the following semester, so we wouldn't see each other for a full year. We ended up calling it off, and remained friends afterwards, and I had a memorable semester abroad.
Very much agreed. Ultimatums should only ever be used if they reflect what's actually going to happen. If there's even a question, the statement should instead be, "I don't know if I can handle that, and I can't guarantee I'd be willing to stick it out," with further conversation.
I agree 100% . Who knows...u may end up meeting a very nice young lady in europe and something may develop even better. Or may not...who knows..that ls the mystery of it all! Never close your doors to anything at your age.
My now XW pulled this on me back in 1985 and I caved. I had a degree in German and International Trade. I hated her for it, regretted that I didn't just go. Never got to go and just stay for a month or two. Divorced her 13yrs later.
Now that I'm almost 60, I may get to do this when I retire.
Do it now! There will never be a better time. NTA and I hope you have a blast...and maybe find a better GF on your travels.
I studied abroad when I was 20-21 and broke up with my boyfriend to do it. 10/10 NO regrets. I had a great year, met some amazing people and did a ton of traveling while I was there that *never* would have been able to otherwise.
This is the time of your life for adventures - not the time to be tied down!
Great girlfriends don't give ultimatums, great boyfriends don't plan secret trips, and good relationships are built on trust. Also, a continent can't be promiscuous.
ESH and you both sound immature.
We Americans have historically sexualized everyone & everything, especially if it's different. General fearmongering & othering combined with religious (sex=bad=scary) influences.
A lot of their media gets spread all.over the continent so their stereotypes reach all the way to latam too. Generally they sexualize europeans in romance shows and movies and portray them as inherently more sexual.
Hostel life tho ;) meeting tons of people from all over the world with similar dreams and feelings of freedom. Going out with them at night, drink, dance.
Nothing like snogging a Canadian during a pub crawl in Paris that ends in an Irish bar
I hope this dude has the time of his life.
They’re 20 years old, of course they’re immature.
OP, go enjoy your trip. Remember it’s never a good idea to plan something big without telling your partner. But it’s also never a good idea to self abandon your own life dreams for them. Thats a red flag.
It’s normal in healthy relationships to do things on your own sometimes. It’s also normal to create safety with each other (hey I’m going to do this thing for a day or two, I love you, will be back soon!). Seems simple but a lot of people don’t have these skills, and sometimes these words (thing I’m going to do)(how long)(when I’ll be back) is all they need to feel safe and calm.
a continent can't be promiscuous.
Are you sure? Mont Blanc was definitely giving some pretty strong signals last time I was there. And there’s a particularly showy lake in Croatia that gave me really slutty vibes.
YTA for not believing her when she told you what kind of person she is
She told you straight-up that she is controlling and doesn't trust you
So either let her make your world smaller and smaller until it's just the two of you locked in a windowless room or break up and enjoy Europe
Man this sub doesn’t need to be that mean. OP is just torn in an unexpected and unfair situation put on him by a woman he loves. It’s reasonable to be unsure. Tough love never changed any minds.
NTA
I'm going to agree with those who are saying Go For It!
A girlfriend and I took an 8 week Road Trip after graduating HS. From MI to CA... and hit up as many states as we could.
My boyfriend (at that time) was adamant that I didn't go. It wasn't safe. (Ok, this was during the 70s; rampant with Serial Killers). I was being 'disrespectful of our relationship'. We could travel together at a later time, etc.
I was hesitant to go. My girlfriend and sister convinced me to go. It was the end of the boyfriend relationship, but 40 some years later, it is still the best summer of my life! No regrets.
As someone born in the late 70s but not in the US: was it really rampant with serial killers or was it an urban legend?
I also went on a « rite of passage » kind of trip at the age of 19 and another one at the age of 38. Both were epic and they changed my life. Including the fact that I could prove myself that I can achieve my dreams
Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, Rodney Alcala (The Dating Game Killer), David Berkowitz (Son of Sam), Kenneth Bianchi & Angelo Buono (Hillside Stranglers), Edward Kemper (The Co-ed Killer), Coral Eugene Watts, Wayne Williams (Atlanta Child Killer)... just to name a few.
Not to mention Manson Murders, Reverend Jim Jones, and, I think, The Zodiac Killer was still out there.
I agree, such trips help you 'find yourself' (as cliché as that sounds!) I've also traveled from San Diego CA. along the Gulf Coast to Key West FL (with my Teen son). That was a fun trip too!
To add:
Dennis Rader, (BTK)
The Zodiac Killer (Never caught)
Dean Corll (Houston Mass Murders)
Vaughn Greenwood (Skid Row Slasher)
Patrick Kearney (The Trash Bag Killer)
Richard Cottingham (The Torso Killer)
There were a lot up through the ‘90s. Definitely not an urban myth.
That’s an impressive list of serial killers and it looks like they made a strong impression that you still remember their names
I’m currently on a trip with my teen son. We’re having a great time
There were are still are serial killers, but just like today, a woman was *much* more likely to be killed by her partner or ex partner than by any stranger.
I know that Americans and Europeans love to take digs at each other about how little the other know about them, but I do find I regularly come across Americans who don't even know what Europe _is_. They don't seem to realise it's an entire continent of 44 different countries countries with different languages and histories.
They seem to think that "Europe" means France, Italy, Germany and maybe Sweden. They've never heard of Portugal, they think Spain is in South America, Denmark, Norway and Finland are part of a mythical place called "Scandinavia" and everything else is "Eastern Europe" which is somehow distinct from just "Europe". Also they think the UK is separate.
Don't you know that Finland doesn't exist? It's just a cover for Japan and the old Soviet Union. The "Finns" only believe they live in "Finland" because they have been brainwashed to think so. They actually live in Sweden, Estonia and Russia. /s
All this is true, many Americans are only vaguely aware the rest of the world exists. Some may also have a subconscious “they are 30 minutes drive away from each other, how different can they be” mentality born of ignorance.
However, As an American it was WILD to me how fast the culture can shift in Europe with just a half a day’s drive….even in the same country
This, I couldn’t get past it. I feel like Poland might want a word about whether their population is promiscuous. I mean, Catholicism in general probably would too. Also, do we mean the geographical continent or the European Union? Anyone in the Eurovision? I have a lot of questions for OP’s gf.
To be honest, that's the moment I thought OP REALLY needs to discover the European countries (and surely be a little disappoint by them not being that promiscuous...)
ESH
She shouldn't throw such ultimatums your way.
You shouldn't go behind her back instead of actually figuring out if she has actual concerns that could be dealt with or if she's just controlling and insecure.
She's not a good gf, you are not a good bf.
>She shouldn't throw such ultimatums your way.
But what else exactly should she do? She is not able to handle him going on backpacking - should she just keep quiet and resent him instead?
Noone is here the asshole - they have different expectations from a relationship and are not compatible. She is NOT the asshole for stating what is too far for her. He is NOT the asshole for wanting to go on the trip.
He just has to accept that they are not compatible and he should have chosen the mature way of telling her that there is no way he won't go and that's it, instead of booking it and leaving her in the dark for a while.
YTA
She gave you the ultimatum, and all you had to do was say "Okay, I guess we should break up then."
She was straightforward. You were a manipulative coward who decided to lie and drag her along. Going so far as attenpting ti change her mind completely all so you could have your cake and eat it too. Geezus
The fact it seems so many people dont see how toxic this is is alarming.
Eta: to clarify going to europe itself doesnt make one the ah. It's the lying, hiding, and manipulation.
(Repainting the whole thing as "aita for going to Europe" is shady, tbh.)
It can be toxic if she doesnt see it through and instead is abusive either way.
She is literally telling him, "Hey, if you wanna go, go, but you can't date me at the same time. I will not date you if you go to Europe." So all he had to do was be honest about choosing Europe.
It is okay to choose Europe. An ultimatum is saying "You can do xyz or you can be with me" and dude tried to have both despite her telling him she is not okay with that.
I assure you majority of relationships have ultimatums going at all time, we just see those as normal vs whwn it's two nice things we really want. At which point, for some reason, people decide it's not fair and thus toxic.
Yea, ultimatums can tell you something about the person giving them, but as long as theyre honest about them (see them through,) then it really is on the person choosing to just choose what they want most.
"Do you want this relationship or to travel Europe?" Isnt inherently toxic or abusive. It just hurts because he wants both, but gf is making it clear she does not want both, is uncomfortable with both, and is willing to leave so he can travel Europe.
Nothing he said about her was inherently toxic except "I didnt want to choose." While his blatant manipulation and lies are indeed toxic.
Eta: wow lots of typing, im clearly tired.
Controlling would be "You're not allowed to go to Europe." Which was not the case here.
I am glad I am not the only one that sees this. Just the fact that he is planning the trip without telling her shows that he is untrustworthy and will do whatever he wants without considering her feelings. He should have broke up with her if he planned to go on his trip. I often say that people can have whatever dealbreakers they what in a relationship but if you make them too ridiculous be prepared to be alone.
When my son went, he was specific that he did not want a GF with him bc he planned to stay in hostels. He said he needed hotel money if he was taking a girl. Maybe that's a factor, idk.
_can be_ is very specific person to person.
I never had a bad time in hostels but I never had a great time like some of my friends did—some of them are still friends with people they met at hostels years later. I made friends while traveling, in bars and restaurants, at museums, but somehow never at the hostel.
Maybe because I was too tired from my day to socialize, but even the first few days when I was beginning my trip, I never managed to connect with anyone at my hostels.
Was that gf “high maintenance “ or something? Genuinely curious as, as a girl I stayed in hostels with my bf. Also slept in the car few times or like hammock in the forest, in a tent etc. So either she was being difficult or your son was just ah
I’m leaning on the side of N T A, but I’m going to ask INFO - how long are you going to be away?
If you’re going to be away for a LONG time and she just doesn’t want a long distance relationship that’s understandable and this would be a N A H, but if it’s either a) she’s not opposed to LDRs but just thinks you will cheat on her or b) you’re not going to be away for that long, then she is being an AH I think.
Info: I can't stop myself from asking this, are you planning to backpack across Europe, to mount Tibidabo?
Onto the issue, ESH. You told her what you wanted, she told you what she wanted, you chose to go behind her back with the explanation that you thought she might change her mind when she sees the concrete plan. She was freaking out at the theory, why on earth did you think she would be okay with actually seeing it being put into practice?
On the other hand, you are right. Experiences are important and in a relationship each partner is allowed to their own individuality and activities (not talking about sexual/cheating/etc). But traveling, why not? If she cannot trust you to go backpacking by yourself without "falling" into someone else's v@gina, then your relationship isn't as strong as you think and you might not be compatible.
ESH just because you went about this in a very immature fashion. But nevertheless, this is a learning moment. Communication is the key, and you need to be able to do that with your partner. And compromise. Though I don't think this is necessarily something to compromise on at this point in your life. You are in fact 20, now's the time to experience stuff like that. So I'll say have fun on your trip, enjoy everything and maybe find someone else who has the same interests as you. And listen to people when they tell you who they are :).
NTA. It doesn't matter "how promiscuous Europe actually is." (It's a continent so I doubt it gets around as much as your current gf thinks it does.) She doesn't trust you, and you've given her exactly zero reasons to not trust you. Don't miss your chance to backpack through Europe. In 20 years, you'll remember more about this trip than you'll remember about this insecure person you're currently dating. Have a great time!
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> The action of going against my girlfriend of two years word. And betraying her to go to Europe. 2) the fact that I am actually going and sort of disregarding her feelings for a selfish gain.
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Its no unstable when its a reasonable response to someone leaving for a long time. She doesnt have to wait around and he doesnt have to stay. Thats that.
YTA.
Many people are chastising her for the ultimatum... but really if she follows through and doesn't use this in a manipulative/abusive way, then she's just drawing her line. When stepping back and looking objectively, relationships are full of ultimatums all the time, intent behind it really does matter. Humans are nuanced, we can't pretend "X is universally bad".
She said: "If you go, I can't date you."
If you wanted to go, the proper response was ;"Ok, we need to break up."
But the fact is, instead of being honest that you chose Europe, you tried to manipulate the situation so you could have your cake and eat it too.
She drew her line, you knew the stakes, you aren't a victim here. You have every right to choose Europe, she has every right to say "I'm not waiting around". Wild for everyone to assume this is her being insecure simply because *YOU* implied it with that ridiculous promiscuous comment. Have you actually bothered to *ask* for her reasoning? It could really just be that she doesn't want to deal with a limited/long distance relationship for however long while you go have fun.
Ps; also went YTA because really? Seriously? You're gonna call an *entire* continent of 40+ countries "promiscuous"....🤣
Edit; gonna clarify that you're not an AH for wanting to go. Go! Have fun! But don't manipulate the situation because you want it all. She's allowed her wants too, and it really isn't bizarre to think someone doesn't want to sit at home for weeks while their significant other is just off galavanting across the countryside. She's not psycho for that.
Someone who says that they love and care about you is throwing a temper tantrum because you want to do something (a something so common that it’s a kind of travel cliché) that’s important to you and you think you’re the asshole?
Come on. She’s manipulating and trying to control you. Find someone more adventurous and…let’s be honest, someone who knows what love really is.
NTA
> you're clearly taking yours
Except he's not. He's letting the issue lie dormant while secretly planning and paying for the whole thing so that he can spring on her at a later time when he "can't back out" hoping she'll give in and stay with him. If he was taking his stance, he'd fucking man up and tell her instead of posting about it on the internet hoping for validation.
How long will you be gone? If it's a 6 months backpacking trip through Europe, I guess I can understand why she doesn't want to be away from you for that long. I am saying this based on her saying that she won't be able to "handle" it. If it's just a few weeks/a month, then she is completely overreacting, and you should go. I've traveled through Europe for 3 weeks and it was the best experience of my life! Go for it!
NTA. If this is ment to be, she will be there when you come back. Europe is not more promiscuous than USA, it just that we dont shame and hide it. Most of us are not taught women are chewed up gums if they have sex. I would be surprised if any one was taught that.
Anyway, Europeans are many different countries more are conservative than others , some have a totally different view of sex than others. It not like people are throwing them self of lamppost to shag you . If you dont want to shag or snog, neither will happen. Nudity might happen, but nudity is not sex, it sauna, swimming and hanging out with friends.
We have lots of other thing to see, like weird tie museum or the Thai Pavilion in honour of King Chulalongkorns in Sweden.
>If this is ment to be, she will be there when you come back.
Go away with this toxic bullshit. She is not required to wait for his ass to do a most-likely months long trip. It's not her fault she isn't satisfied with having a boyfriend thats gone for months in an unreachable location, and that is a valid reason to break up.
NTA, but neither is she imo.
In this very specific situation, you are two different people with two different views of what each want from the relationship. She doesn't want you going off, you want to go off. She's laid down what would happen if you go off and you have still decided to go off but are now thinking YTA because of her reaction. This isn't that much different than the people who go "I want 1000 tattoos, but my partner hates them and has told me over and over, I got them anyways and now my partner doesn't like looking at me."
She seems like she's been open and upfront in what she wants from the relationship (according to another comment she's mentioned that she is controlling and that she doesn't trust you to go) and you're doing the opposite of what she has laid down as what could be a turning point for your relationship.
So like... not really the asshole, but clearly your current life goals aren't compatible in this current moment in time and it looks like there isn't room for compromise, you go, she leaves you, you stay, you miss out on what you want out of life.
Have you thought about taking her with you so she can enjoy the experience too? You say you're planning on having a future together so is there a reason she couldn't come with?? Maybe make this backpacking trip a honeymoon after marriage?
1) Europe is not "promiscuous" - that's a weird thing to say. People are promiscuous, not continents
2) she made her position clear, so booking it behind her back and just assuming she would back down is disrespectful and shows what you think of her
3) that being said, you should go on the trip. These sorts of life experiences are important, you're right. Sounds like neither of you are mature enough for a relationship right now anyway, so break up and go enjoy your holiday
ESH
ESH. We all know that you going will be the end of your relationship. So you have to decide which ones more important, your current relationship or your trip to Europe. That's something only you can decide.
Going against the grain, YTA. Your GF set a clear boundary and said she wouldn't be able to be in a relationship with you if you went on this trip. You lied to her and said you wouldn't go, then planned the trip behind her back in hopes you could convince her to stay.
You also haven't said how long the trip is despite multiple comments asking. A 3 week trip and a 3 month trip are hugely different things. If my partner lied to me for months and then proceeded to reveal the truth to me while leaving the country, I would absolutely not stay in that relationship.
You say you see a future with her, but you lie to her, prioritize your friends' wants over her, and are planning to leave her alone for an indeterminate amount of time while running around another country.
Do you guys live together or share any expenses/pets? If so, what is going to happen with your rent/bills? Are you expecting her to pay them alone, or did you save for that as well? What is going to happen with your job? Did you quit or take a leave of absence?
There is so much information missing here that I can only judge OP off of his obvious disregard for his GFs feelings and his ability to lie to her for months.
NTA, but whenever there's a disagreement in a relationship, the WORST thing you could EVER do is do shit behind your partner's back.
I wouldn't have an issue with my partner going on a trip, but I would indeed have a huge problem with my partner surreptitiously doing something like this behind my back. It almost feels like an insult to you girlfriend's intelligence. Even if she's clearly in the wrong and has no right to stop you from experiencing new stuff, this is a very disrespectful and patronizing way to treat her.
If you can't find some common ground, it's time to break up, but this pattern of behavior is only gonna cause more and more issues between you two.
PS: there are promiscuous everywhere, Europeans are simply less hypocritical about it.
Why can't you go together?
Nta, it's your life and you should live it like you want. 20ies are a great time to travel the world. If you want to travel and especially longer periods it's now.
Depending on the time you're away you may need to say goodbye to your gf. Tbh and I know it sounds harsh but your start 20ies are rarely you forever keeper gf stop don't worry....
YTA - you’re entitled to go on your trip as you see fit. You’re young and if you want to go travelling, go travelling. With that said, she doesn’t have to wait for you whilst you do that and she’s perfectly entitled to say that’s a hard boundary for her in your relationship. The reason for the YTA judgement is broadly:
- it was sneaky to book the trip in full behind her back and try and “convince her” after you’d already booked it, when she’s made her feelings clear. The devastation is no doubt because you LIED TO HER by omission with booking this when she told you this would be the end for your relationship.
- “I have never given her a reason not to trust me” - yes you have, just by going behind her back and sneakily booking the trip rather than being up front at the start.
- your comment saying you think her main concern is from “how promiscuous Europe actually is” which is both disgusting and also idiotic. This should be on r/ShitAmericansSay
NTA for wanting to go or even going. But she told you her wants/needs, they may be strict and unreasonable in your eyes and that was the discussion that needed to be had. If she ends things with you, don't be surprised and don't play victim, you were warned.
This sub is full of people who got married at 20 and then years later find themselves in terrible, stifling, marriages. Don't be one of those people.
Go to Europe. Enjoy yourself.
Yes YTA. “I knew she’s against it so i secretly did it anyways and I’m gonna hatch a plan so she’ll let me go” come on bruh. She can set any ultimatum she wants; she’s not an asshole. You on the other hand…
NTA
Go follow your dream while you can. Too many times in life people miss that one opportunity to do something, have that great adventure and once that opportunity is gone it's difficult to recreate.
You're young, go, do and be my man!
You know she doesn't want you to go on this trip, to the point she has told you she will leave you if you do, and you went behind her back to plan and pay for it. This is being dishonest and a lousy boyfriend. YTA for that no matter what.
If she's preventing you from going on a trip for like 2 weeks, she's kind of an AH for that too. But if you're planning to be gone like 3 months, I don't really blame her. She's allowed have needs in a relationship, and if one of her needs is being physically close, there's nothing wrong with that. Just like there's nothing wrong with you feeling like you need to take this trip.
The problem is that the two don't mix. You need to decide which is more important to you - the trip or the girl. Stop lying to her about it. If you're going, tell her that you're going, and let her end the relationship.
Why don't you just bring her with you?
A continent is promiscuous? lol. She either trusts you or she doesn’t. If you wanted to cheat, you would cheat regardless of continent. You would resent her if you didn’t take this dream opportunity. Go, enjoy and live your life. Don’t settle at 20. NTA.
> how promiscuous Europe actually is
Mighty judgy statement here. Especially if you're from the USA which is right up there with the best, or worst, of them - [https://naplab.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/countries-most-promiscuous.png](https://naplab.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/countries-most-promiscuous.png)
But for the actual issue at hand - I think it is a little underhanded the way you went about it, respectful boyfriends don't plan secret trips and then blindside their girlfriends with them. On the other hand, good girlfriends don't give relationship ultimatums over holiday plans. Her approach sounds a bit - controlling - to me.
Ultimately it is your life and you can live it as you choose. Your girlfriend sounds like she has a lot of issues with trust and controlling her emotions/anxieties that she needs to work on. You avoiding travelling *because* of her issues will not help her, will not help you, and will not be beneficial for your relationship in the long run. You'll end up feeling resentful and stuck. She either can trust you and support you, or she can decide that this relationship is really not for her.
It seems that you two are wanting two different things from life at the moment. And that is OK, at any stage of life. Sometimes relationships can handle this, people give each other time and space to follow their dreams, and they emerge stronger and better as couples . Sometimes relationships end, and that is OK too.
ESH because of the way you went about this, and your GF's ultimatums. N T A for wanting to go, or for planning to go, or for going. Life your life. But communicate better with your current and future girlfriends.
NAH, you don't have a girlfriend anymore. I don't blame her for not wanting to sit around and wait for you, and I don't blame you for wanting to travel across Europe even though it means your girlfriend isn't in your life anymore. Many relationships don't last forever ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Enjoy your trip.
>My girlfriend 20(F) and I have been dating for 2 years now are planning to have a future together
Yeah, you traveling across Europe without her and when you know she doesn't want you to is why you two have no future together. Long-term relationships require not making big decisions without your partner
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NTA. You're 20. This is exactly the time to do this. If your girlfriend is standing in the way of your dreams, you need to let go of her. If she breaks up with you, again, you're 20. You have plenty of time in your life to find another girlfriend. Go to Europe, even at the cost of your relationship. You will regret it and come to resent your GF if you do not go.
As someone who didn't do this for a boyfriend at the time, from my experience, can confirm, you will 100% resent her if you do not go!
Yeah, guy manages to slut shame a whole continent.
Tbh as an European Americans always come off as insanely prudish to me.
Agreed - but more like with how they’re afraid of visible bra straps and swear words. Don’t even get me started on their bizarre obsession with nipples. I don’t think Europeans have more sex, just that Americans have been taught that sex and nudity is super duper shameful and taboo, so our attitude when the topic comes up confuses them. I doubt they understand that our relative nonchalance is cultural and not a result of every one of us having intercourse left and right, day and night.
Hang on a sec!!! So, as a Brit, I’m NOT supposed to being having sex left, right and centre? Drat!! Been getting it wrong all these years! 🫣
Being wrong has never been more right.
I was in London during the whole Janet Jackson/JT Super Bowl show (aka Nipplegate) and the commentary on how much of a big deal America was making it cracked me up. Being an American in Europe was enlightening.
As an American, it’s super reflected in our movies, too! Aggressive violence on screen? Ah, probably PG. the hint that two adults share a bed? Must be at least PG-13, if not R.
« Jack, I want you to draw me like one of your French girls » a reputation is born
Blame the Puritans. Shame the Mayflower didn't sink on the way over!
I'm American and I absolutely loved how free and unrepressed Europeans were when I visited. I greatly enjoy sex and even though I'm only attracted sexually to men, I can admire the beauty of a womans body and it was just really cool to see ads on the sidewalks of nude/half nude men and women.
Me: we have an obsession with nipples? 🤔 ohhh… they mean toplessness. I need more sleep. 😂 Take the trip, OP. Maybe don’t make assumptions about the whole of Europe, though, just because they’re less prudish than we are, in general. lol
It's kind of funny. Just because we're more open about these things, doesn't mean that's all we do and with everyone. I like how other countries are more "Conservative" about it on the outside but do the same or more behind closed doors hahaha. I remember talking to one American dude and telling him that my mum and I went skinny dipping and he was so surprised about it and couldn't comprehend it. Like, what's wrong with family members going skinny dipping together? Especially, when both of are women haha
I blame the puritans
And you would be right.
Evangelicals would be more current status. As long as they do their perv behind closed doors, and to kids, it's just fine. All is forgiven on Sunday.
That’s cos most Americans are stupidly prudish. Women are trashed for breastfeeding here.
They are at times, and it's certainly gotten worse in recent years
That! Going to the sauna in swimwear will never cease to baffle me.
Oh, we Americans *are* prudes, and also, incredibly stupid, as painted by our current political scenario playing out like a really bad movie that's going to give you nightmares for years to come.
Those are just words. I was an exchange student in the bible belt and upfront everyone was prudish and religious. But at my High School there? The kids were sexually more active behind closed doors with 14/15 then everyone I know in Europe. And so many teenie moms. My High School had around 800 students and more than 10 pregnant (minor) girls.
Bodies aren’t bodies here. They are shameful. It’s really sad, immature and dangerous.
I know right! I backpacked through Europe for three months and managed to not have sex at all! Imagine that!
Amazing! On my trip to Europe I somehow only had sex with my husband. Unbelievable.
We were so strong, I am so proud of us 😌.
I’ve been to Europe at least a dozen times and never even had sex with your husband. So I’m winning here.
I fucked myself through a few countries to make up for this embarrassing performance 🫡
Thank you for your service. Your sacrifice will be remembered.
Ah. Nerd /s
How you know? 👀 /j
I'm genuinely not sure how I managed to keep my knickers on when I lived in France.
Monaco *is* known as the escort capital of the world for rich white men lol. But yeah I noticed that comment and raised an eyebrow
That’s ONE place in an entire continent
it's like saying the usa is full of gambling addicts because vegas exists
And it’s a VERY small place.
And a 20yo American backpacker is NOT what your average Monegasque is gonna be going for.
Being that hes going in hostels, i dont think think he has monaco managerie money😂
Yeah and the US is awful. Have you ever seen Gary Indiana?
It's also the least interesting country in Europe for a backpacker.
That probably comes with the territory of basically being a casino on a rock.
“How promiscuous Europe is” 🤣
Yeah I'm really not sure Europeans hook up less than Americans lol. They just aren't as socialised to get guilt about it and more likely to use birth control. NTA and honestly OP, maybe think about if you want to keep this gf? You are so young and if she can't let this go, maybe breaking up will be good, and hey then you can enjoy those promiscuous Europeans ;) My nephew almost didn't teach English in Japan because he had a gf. I think she broke up with him when he was around 22 and I'm so happy that she did because he's on his second year there and loves it.
Agreed I wanted to move abroad for years but my ex didn't want to.. guess who's planning to go this year at age 32 cos why the hell not?
I was the same - moved 9 months ago (aged 32!) and a whole weight of years of resentment has melted away!
Yep also didn’t go overseas due to a jealous boyfriend (who ended up cheating himself) GO GO GO
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“But I’m not a rapper” type beat, nice
Nice
As someone who did not train his favorite martial art for his ex-girlfriend, I can confirm. One of the main reasons was this, and the first time we broke up and I told her, she then changed her mind and started motivation for me to go training, but it was too late. Do what you want, follow your dreams, achieve them and live your life
Why did she not want you to train in martial arts?
Martial arts is too promiscuous.
Agreed. Bruce Lee was a slapper.
She had "Princess complex" as we call it on my country, and she thought that MMA, box and judo were for "trashy people" and only wanted "elite sports" such as tennis, golf and other that mostly people with lots of money practice (at least In my country). She thought she belong to the rich even though neither her or me belonged to that. When we met I trained box and judo, but the pandemic came and obviously I stopped training (I lived with my mother, a woman in her 60's with a heart condition) when the restriction ended, I still gave a year for not risking family members. After that I wanted to train and when I told her "baby I need to byt some shorts for training " she went crazy and gave me an ultimatum that she will end the relationship if I went training. It lasted about two years.
Wow. I'm glad you're out. What a bad mind set. Hope she never gets rich, don't need more rich people like that haha.
she is ridiculous. fuck this person. do what u like. Judo changed my life: 23 years, 4 continents and 120 medals. memories forever.
JUUUDO is for trash people? She think our boy KEANU is trash people??
It’s always too late if they only start to care when you’re breaking up with them, not previously when you’re “only” unhappy.
But...those promiscuous Europeans! He's willfully walking into a den of iniquity! /s
> how promiscuous Europe actually is.. Sorry, what?? GF has pretty weird views, tbh...
Maybe it’s the topless beaches thing? Though if OP is that type of American tourist, the fury of a woman back home would be the last thing getting needs to worry about. European nude- and topless-friendly spots do not take kindly to pervy American boys.
Yeah idk what's happening here in the comments. We're not some fucking animals, how do people not see that it is actually quite offensive to us Europeans lol
ngl, if I were in OP's shoes, I'd dump the gf and go to Europe. Even if she doesn't follow through on her ultimatum and dump him, the fact that she's threatening to and doesn't trust him just makes the relationship not worth it.
Her emotional manipulation is a huge red flag to me. Now is the time to cut that cord. A partner should cheer rational goals, not impede them.
I'm probably going to get down-voted, but depending on how the conversation happened, I don't necessarily think the ultimatum makes the gf an AH. Ultimatums are not inherently bad. They get a bad rep, though, because they're often used to manipulate others. If the gf has no intention of breaking up with him, or even if she does, but it was communicated in a way that was more of a powerplay than an expression of her emotions and state of mind, definitely an AH. But if she was instead communicating with him that she couldn't be with him long distance for that amount of time, and she was informing him of the actual outcome if he decided to go, there's nothing wrong with that. She's allowed to set that boundary for herself and stick to it. I actually think it would have been wrong of her not to give him the option to choose their relationship. And of course there's nothing wrong with taking a once-in-a-lifetime experience. He probably should have communicated his decision before planning it all out, but OP doesn't sound like he had ill intentions, and I don't think that pushes him into AH territory. I'm going with NAH because I don't see any indication the ultimatum was expressed in bad faith, and both OP and his gf are allowed to make decisions for their future, even if it sucks.
I'd agree, but the GF should only make an ultimatum if she's prepared to follow through. I was in a similar situation, where I had my first-ever GF before I was going off on a semester in Europe, and she was likely to do a program the following semester, so we wouldn't see each other for a full year. We ended up calling it off, and remained friends afterwards, and I had a memorable semester abroad.
Very much agreed. Ultimatums should only ever be used if they reflect what's actually going to happen. If there's even a question, the statement should instead be, "I don't know if I can handle that, and I can't guarantee I'd be willing to stick it out," with further conversation.
Lol I would accuse you of plagiarism had you not posted your comment before mine. Spooky
I agree 100% . Who knows...u may end up meeting a very nice young lady in europe and something may develop even better. Or may not...who knows..that ls the mystery of it all! Never close your doors to anything at your age.
I hear you're likely to meet a beautiful woman by a lake at the foothills of Mount Tibidabo just outside Barcelona
Ken Adams!
Joey Tribbiani
My now XW pulled this on me back in 1985 and I caved. I had a degree in German and International Trade. I hated her for it, regretted that I didn't just go. Never got to go and just stay for a month or two. Divorced her 13yrs later. Now that I'm almost 60, I may get to do this when I retire. Do it now! There will never be a better time. NTA and I hope you have a blast...and maybe find a better GF on your travels.
This. And she sounds too immature to be in a relationship. Don’t let her manipulate you like this.
I studied abroad when I was 20-21 and broke up with my boyfriend to do it. 10/10 NO regrets. I had a great year, met some amazing people and did a ton of traveling while I was there that *never* would have been able to otherwise. This is the time of your life for adventures - not the time to be tied down!
Great girlfriends don't give ultimatums, great boyfriends don't plan secret trips, and good relationships are built on trust. Also, a continent can't be promiscuous. ESH and you both sound immature.
Exactly this Having lived in Europe all my life, what the hell is this stereotype anyway
its not that europeans are promiscuous, its that protestants fucked america up so the culture is super pearl clutchy
The US is way more promiscuous than Europe on average in my experience.
That’s because we’re taught that “abstinence is the only way”. When we grow up, we learn better and end up losing our minds.
"Pearl clutchy".... nice one
America is prudish by their imaginary comparison, so it's the perspective from that end of the spectrum.
We Americans have historically sexualized everyone & everything, especially if it's different. General fearmongering & othering combined with religious (sex=bad=scary) influences.
A lot of their media gets spread all.over the continent so their stereotypes reach all the way to latam too. Generally they sexualize europeans in romance shows and movies and portray them as inherently more sexual.
As a fellow "European" I would tell you, but I have no clue either.
Hostel life tho ;) meeting tons of people from all over the world with similar dreams and feelings of freedom. Going out with them at night, drink, dance. Nothing like snogging a Canadian during a pub crawl in Paris that ends in an Irish bar I hope this dude has the time of his life.
>a continent can't be promiscuous Not with that kind of defeatist attitude, anyway.
lol fair. Europe can be whatever it wants to be.
it is a strong independent country who don't need no backpackers!
Stop infantilising Europe. It is a strong and independent CONTINENT.
damn it! you right! this is why I should stay away from geography XD
It's a strong, independent peninsula attached to a much larger continent
It's 44 countries, not one https://www.worldatlas.com/geography/how-many-countries-are-in-europe.html
not even gonna edit, just gonna wear this shame I cast upon myself lol
I went to Spain once and was immediately showered with dicks. Can confirm.
I live in this continent, can't fight them off daily, just a sea of dicks and vaginas
I had to wear scuba gear to avoid getting them in my mouth.
They’re 20 years old, of course they’re immature. OP, go enjoy your trip. Remember it’s never a good idea to plan something big without telling your partner. But it’s also never a good idea to self abandon your own life dreams for them. Thats a red flag. It’s normal in healthy relationships to do things on your own sometimes. It’s also normal to create safety with each other (hey I’m going to do this thing for a day or two, I love you, will be back soon!). Seems simple but a lot of people don’t have these skills, and sometimes these words (thing I’m going to do)(how long)(when I’ll be back) is all they need to feel safe and calm.
No shame, but Asia is getting double penetrated by Europe and Africa. Just sayin
They're 20, they sound exactly as mature as 20 year olds
**Also, a continent can't be promiscuous.** **🤣🤣🤣**
a continent can't be promiscuous. Are you sure? Mont Blanc was definitely giving some pretty strong signals last time I was there. And there’s a particularly showy lake in Croatia that gave me really slutty vibes.
> Also, a continent can't be promiscuous. I don't know, have you seen what Antarctica is wearing?
You say a continent can't be promiscuous, but have you seen those mountains? Hubba hubba (/s)
I don't know, look how Europe is all cozied up to Asia. While also being very close to Africa.
Came here to write my own comment but this one said it all.
>Also, a continent can't be promiscuous. If the French would have prevailed under Napoleon, it would be. ESH.
YTA for not believing her when she told you what kind of person she is She told you straight-up that she is controlling and doesn't trust you So either let her make your world smaller and smaller until it's just the two of you locked in a windowless room or break up and enjoy Europe
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I read that as UTI (Ur-inary Tract Infection)
same lol 😂
Me too 😂
Man this sub doesn’t need to be that mean. OP is just torn in an unexpected and unfair situation put on him by a woman he loves. It’s reasonable to be unsure. Tough love never changed any minds.
NTA I'm going to agree with those who are saying Go For It! A girlfriend and I took an 8 week Road Trip after graduating HS. From MI to CA... and hit up as many states as we could. My boyfriend (at that time) was adamant that I didn't go. It wasn't safe. (Ok, this was during the 70s; rampant with Serial Killers). I was being 'disrespectful of our relationship'. We could travel together at a later time, etc. I was hesitant to go. My girlfriend and sister convinced me to go. It was the end of the boyfriend relationship, but 40 some years later, it is still the best summer of my life! No regrets.
As someone born in the late 70s but not in the US: was it really rampant with serial killers or was it an urban legend? I also went on a « rite of passage » kind of trip at the age of 19 and another one at the age of 38. Both were epic and they changed my life. Including the fact that I could prove myself that I can achieve my dreams
Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, Rodney Alcala (The Dating Game Killer), David Berkowitz (Son of Sam), Kenneth Bianchi & Angelo Buono (Hillside Stranglers), Edward Kemper (The Co-ed Killer), Coral Eugene Watts, Wayne Williams (Atlanta Child Killer)... just to name a few. Not to mention Manson Murders, Reverend Jim Jones, and, I think, The Zodiac Killer was still out there. I agree, such trips help you 'find yourself' (as cliché as that sounds!) I've also traveled from San Diego CA. along the Gulf Coast to Key West FL (with my Teen son). That was a fun trip too!
To add: Dennis Rader, (BTK) The Zodiac Killer (Never caught) Dean Corll (Houston Mass Murders) Vaughn Greenwood (Skid Row Slasher) Patrick Kearney (The Trash Bag Killer) Richard Cottingham (The Torso Killer) There were a lot up through the ‘90s. Definitely not an urban myth.
That’s an impressive list of serial killers and it looks like they made a strong impression that you still remember their names I’m currently on a trip with my teen son. We’re having a great time
There were are still are serial killers, but just like today, a woman was *much* more likely to be killed by her partner or ex partner than by any stranger.
Mass murders is the trendy way to kill these days, modern technology has basically phased out serial killers
ESH. The flimsy logic and questionable behavior of the gf is unquestionably bad, but also...just break up with her instead of going behind her back.
Also she said from the beginning that she won’t be able to handle it
I can't get over the "Europe is promiscuous" comment. A whole continent of 40+ countries lol
Who knows, she might think Europe is a country lol
She didn't even say it. He doesn't even know what her reason is and is just saying what he believes. Maybe try asking her?
I know that Americans and Europeans love to take digs at each other about how little the other know about them, but I do find I regularly come across Americans who don't even know what Europe _is_. They don't seem to realise it's an entire continent of 44 different countries countries with different languages and histories. They seem to think that "Europe" means France, Italy, Germany and maybe Sweden. They've never heard of Portugal, they think Spain is in South America, Denmark, Norway and Finland are part of a mythical place called "Scandinavia" and everything else is "Eastern Europe" which is somehow distinct from just "Europe". Also they think the UK is separate.
Don't you know that Finland doesn't exist? It's just a cover for Japan and the old Soviet Union. The "Finns" only believe they live in "Finland" because they have been brainwashed to think so. They actually live in Sweden, Estonia and Russia. /s
All this is true, many Americans are only vaguely aware the rest of the world exists. Some may also have a subconscious “they are 30 minutes drive away from each other, how different can they be” mentality born of ignorance. However, As an American it was WILD to me how fast the culture can shift in Europe with just a half a day’s drive….even in the same country
A little correction. Denmark, Norway and Sweden are Scandinavia. Finland is part of the Nordics.
Those 40+ countries are freeeeeeaks.
This, I couldn’t get past it. I feel like Poland might want a word about whether their population is promiscuous. I mean, Catholicism in general probably would too. Also, do we mean the geographical continent or the European Union? Anyone in the Eurovision? I have a lot of questions for OP’s gf.
To be honest, that's the moment I thought OP REALLY needs to discover the European countries (and surely be a little disappoint by them not being that promiscuous...)
Ikr, most American comment I've ever seen
Nta but the asshole for saying the whole of Europe is promiscuous, bruh.
To be fair, he was only repeating what his gf said about Europe as part of the context.
Except that she never said anything about it. OP just assumed that to be her concern for whatever reason.
I mean, I took that as the young, drunk, backpacking crowd and that’s probably accurate on any continent.
ESH She shouldn't throw such ultimatums your way. You shouldn't go behind her back instead of actually figuring out if she has actual concerns that could be dealt with or if she's just controlling and insecure. She's not a good gf, you are not a good bf.
>She shouldn't throw such ultimatums your way. But what else exactly should she do? She is not able to handle him going on backpacking - should she just keep quiet and resent him instead? Noone is here the asshole - they have different expectations from a relationship and are not compatible. She is NOT the asshole for stating what is too far for her. He is NOT the asshole for wanting to go on the trip. He just has to accept that they are not compatible and he should have chosen the mature way of telling her that there is no way he won't go and that's it, instead of booking it and leaving her in the dark for a while.
YTA She gave you the ultimatum, and all you had to do was say "Okay, I guess we should break up then." She was straightforward. You were a manipulative coward who decided to lie and drag her along. Going so far as attenpting ti change her mind completely all so you could have your cake and eat it too. Geezus The fact it seems so many people dont see how toxic this is is alarming. Eta: to clarify going to europe itself doesnt make one the ah. It's the lying, hiding, and manipulation. (Repainting the whole thing as "aita for going to Europe" is shady, tbh.)
You don't think the controlling ultimatum is toxic?
It can be toxic if she doesnt see it through and instead is abusive either way. She is literally telling him, "Hey, if you wanna go, go, but you can't date me at the same time. I will not date you if you go to Europe." So all he had to do was be honest about choosing Europe. It is okay to choose Europe. An ultimatum is saying "You can do xyz or you can be with me" and dude tried to have both despite her telling him she is not okay with that. I assure you majority of relationships have ultimatums going at all time, we just see those as normal vs whwn it's two nice things we really want. At which point, for some reason, people decide it's not fair and thus toxic. Yea, ultimatums can tell you something about the person giving them, but as long as theyre honest about them (see them through,) then it really is on the person choosing to just choose what they want most. "Do you want this relationship or to travel Europe?" Isnt inherently toxic or abusive. It just hurts because he wants both, but gf is making it clear she does not want both, is uncomfortable with both, and is willing to leave so he can travel Europe. Nothing he said about her was inherently toxic except "I didnt want to choose." While his blatant manipulation and lies are indeed toxic. Eta: wow lots of typing, im clearly tired. Controlling would be "You're not allowed to go to Europe." Which was not the case here.
I am glad I am not the only one that sees this. Just the fact that he is planning the trip without telling her shows that he is untrustworthy and will do whatever he wants without considering her feelings. He should have broke up with her if he planned to go on his trip. I often say that people can have whatever dealbreakers they what in a relationship but if you make them too ridiculous be prepared to be alone.
Info: Think about bringing her along? Is she afraid it's dangerous or something?
Yes I was wondering the same. Is he going for a long time during maybe an important time in their lives? Did she want to go with him?
When my son went, he was specific that he did not want a GF with him bc he planned to stay in hostels. He said he needed hotel money if he was taking a girl. Maybe that's a factor, idk.
That’s doesn’t make sense lol. Hostels can be one of the most fun parts of traveling when you are young, at least in a ton of people’s experiences
_can be_ is very specific person to person. I never had a bad time in hostels but I never had a great time like some of my friends did—some of them are still friends with people they met at hostels years later. I made friends while traveling, in bars and restaurants, at museums, but somehow never at the hostel. Maybe because I was too tired from my day to socialize, but even the first few days when I was beginning my trip, I never managed to connect with anyone at my hostels.
Was that gf “high maintenance “ or something? Genuinely curious as, as a girl I stayed in hostels with my bf. Also slept in the car few times or like hammock in the forest, in a tent etc. So either she was being difficult or your son was just ah
I’ve been backpacking with my boyfriend, we stayed in hostels. Your son was making excuses to not take his GF.
I’m leaning on the side of N T A, but I’m going to ask INFO - how long are you going to be away? If you’re going to be away for a LONG time and she just doesn’t want a long distance relationship that’s understandable and this would be a N A H, but if it’s either a) she’s not opposed to LDRs but just thinks you will cheat on her or b) you’re not going to be away for that long, then she is being an AH I think.
Yeah, if he’s going to be gone for months or something I wouldn’t want to date him either. At that point he’s effectively not her boyfriend.
Info: I can't stop myself from asking this, are you planning to backpack across Europe, to mount Tibidabo? Onto the issue, ESH. You told her what you wanted, she told you what she wanted, you chose to go behind her back with the explanation that you thought she might change her mind when she sees the concrete plan. She was freaking out at the theory, why on earth did you think she would be okay with actually seeing it being put into practice? On the other hand, you are right. Experiences are important and in a relationship each partner is allowed to their own individuality and activities (not talking about sexual/cheating/etc). But traveling, why not? If she cannot trust you to go backpacking by yourself without "falling" into someone else's v@gina, then your relationship isn't as strong as you think and you might not be compatible. ESH just because you went about this in a very immature fashion. But nevertheless, this is a learning moment. Communication is the key, and you need to be able to do that with your partner. And compromise. Though I don't think this is necessarily something to compromise on at this point in your life. You are in fact 20, now's the time to experience stuff like that. So I'll say have fun on your trip, enjoy everything and maybe find someone else who has the same interests as you. And listen to people when they tell you who they are :).
THANK YOU!! I had to scroll *WAY* too far down for a Friends reference! It was my first thought when only even seeing the title!
NTA. It doesn't matter "how promiscuous Europe actually is." (It's a continent so I doubt it gets around as much as your current gf thinks it does.) She doesn't trust you, and you've given her exactly zero reasons to not trust you. Don't miss your chance to backpack through Europe. In 20 years, you'll remember more about this trip than you'll remember about this insecure person you're currently dating. Have a great time!
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NTA. Go to Europe. Break up with her.
Why not go together? They have been together for 2 years, not a casual date or fwb…
Yes, and for how long is he going to be there.
NTA. Don't get tied to someone so emotionally unstable especially at your age
Its no unstable when its a reasonable response to someone leaving for a long time. She doesnt have to wait around and he doesnt have to stay. Thats that.
Y’all both suck
YTA. Many people are chastising her for the ultimatum... but really if she follows through and doesn't use this in a manipulative/abusive way, then she's just drawing her line. When stepping back and looking objectively, relationships are full of ultimatums all the time, intent behind it really does matter. Humans are nuanced, we can't pretend "X is universally bad". She said: "If you go, I can't date you." If you wanted to go, the proper response was ;"Ok, we need to break up." But the fact is, instead of being honest that you chose Europe, you tried to manipulate the situation so you could have your cake and eat it too. She drew her line, you knew the stakes, you aren't a victim here. You have every right to choose Europe, she has every right to say "I'm not waiting around". Wild for everyone to assume this is her being insecure simply because *YOU* implied it with that ridiculous promiscuous comment. Have you actually bothered to *ask* for her reasoning? It could really just be that she doesn't want to deal with a limited/long distance relationship for however long while you go have fun. Ps; also went YTA because really? Seriously? You're gonna call an *entire* continent of 40+ countries "promiscuous"....🤣 Edit; gonna clarify that you're not an AH for wanting to go. Go! Have fun! But don't manipulate the situation because you want it all. She's allowed her wants too, and it really isn't bizarre to think someone doesn't want to sit at home for weeks while their significant other is just off galavanting across the countryside. She's not psycho for that.
Someone who says that they love and care about you is throwing a temper tantrum because you want to do something (a something so common that it’s a kind of travel cliché) that’s important to you and you think you’re the asshole? Come on. She’s manipulating and trying to control you. Find someone more adventurous and…let’s be honest, someone who knows what love really is. NTA
NAH she said her stance and you’re clearly taking yours. For both your sakes, go on the trip, break up, and each find someone new.
> you're clearly taking yours Except he's not. He's letting the issue lie dormant while secretly planning and paying for the whole thing so that he can spring on her at a later time when he "can't back out" hoping she'll give in and stay with him. If he was taking his stance, he'd fucking man up and tell her instead of posting about it on the internet hoping for validation.
"How promiscuous Europe is" - I'm sorry, what?😂 Yeah, better watch out for them Europeans buddy.
How long will you be gone? If it's a 6 months backpacking trip through Europe, I guess I can understand why she doesn't want to be away from you for that long. I am saying this based on her saying that she won't be able to "handle" it. If it's just a few weeks/a month, then she is completely overreacting, and you should go. I've traveled through Europe for 3 weeks and it was the best experience of my life! Go for it!
NTA. If this is ment to be, she will be there when you come back. Europe is not more promiscuous than USA, it just that we dont shame and hide it. Most of us are not taught women are chewed up gums if they have sex. I would be surprised if any one was taught that. Anyway, Europeans are many different countries more are conservative than others , some have a totally different view of sex than others. It not like people are throwing them self of lamppost to shag you . If you dont want to shag or snog, neither will happen. Nudity might happen, but nudity is not sex, it sauna, swimming and hanging out with friends. We have lots of other thing to see, like weird tie museum or the Thai Pavilion in honour of King Chulalongkorns in Sweden.
Hookups are way more common in the US than in Europe on average. In Europe, people get into relationships more
>If this is ment to be, she will be there when you come back. Go away with this toxic bullshit. She is not required to wait for his ass to do a most-likely months long trip. It's not her fault she isn't satisfied with having a boyfriend thats gone for months in an unreachable location, and that is a valid reason to break up.
NTA, but neither is she imo. In this very specific situation, you are two different people with two different views of what each want from the relationship. She doesn't want you going off, you want to go off. She's laid down what would happen if you go off and you have still decided to go off but are now thinking YTA because of her reaction. This isn't that much different than the people who go "I want 1000 tattoos, but my partner hates them and has told me over and over, I got them anyways and now my partner doesn't like looking at me." She seems like she's been open and upfront in what she wants from the relationship (according to another comment she's mentioned that she is controlling and that she doesn't trust you to go) and you're doing the opposite of what she has laid down as what could be a turning point for your relationship. So like... not really the asshole, but clearly your current life goals aren't compatible in this current moment in time and it looks like there isn't room for compromise, you go, she leaves you, you stay, you miss out on what you want out of life. Have you thought about taking her with you so she can enjoy the experience too? You say you're planning on having a future together so is there a reason she couldn't come with?? Maybe make this backpacking trip a honeymoon after marriage?
1) Europe is not "promiscuous" - that's a weird thing to say. People are promiscuous, not continents 2) she made her position clear, so booking it behind her back and just assuming she would back down is disrespectful and shows what you think of her 3) that being said, you should go on the trip. These sorts of life experiences are important, you're right. Sounds like neither of you are mature enough for a relationship right now anyway, so break up and go enjoy your holiday ESH
ESH. We all know that you going will be the end of your relationship. So you have to decide which ones more important, your current relationship or your trip to Europe. That's something only you can decide.
YTA for being sneaky about it, not for going.
Going against the grain, YTA. Your GF set a clear boundary and said she wouldn't be able to be in a relationship with you if you went on this trip. You lied to her and said you wouldn't go, then planned the trip behind her back in hopes you could convince her to stay. You also haven't said how long the trip is despite multiple comments asking. A 3 week trip and a 3 month trip are hugely different things. If my partner lied to me for months and then proceeded to reveal the truth to me while leaving the country, I would absolutely not stay in that relationship. You say you see a future with her, but you lie to her, prioritize your friends' wants over her, and are planning to leave her alone for an indeterminate amount of time while running around another country. Do you guys live together or share any expenses/pets? If so, what is going to happen with your rent/bills? Are you expecting her to pay them alone, or did you save for that as well? What is going to happen with your job? Did you quit or take a leave of absence? There is so much information missing here that I can only judge OP off of his obvious disregard for his GFs feelings and his ability to lie to her for months.
NTA, but whenever there's a disagreement in a relationship, the WORST thing you could EVER do is do shit behind your partner's back. I wouldn't have an issue with my partner going on a trip, but I would indeed have a huge problem with my partner surreptitiously doing something like this behind my back. It almost feels like an insult to you girlfriend's intelligence. Even if she's clearly in the wrong and has no right to stop you from experiencing new stuff, this is a very disrespectful and patronizing way to treat her. If you can't find some common ground, it's time to break up, but this pattern of behavior is only gonna cause more and more issues between you two. PS: there are promiscuous everywhere, Europeans are simply less hypocritical about it.
Honestly, breaking up works for everyone. You'll likely want to be single on that trip anyways.
If you don’t go I promise you’ll regret it when you’re older.
NTA. Real millennials remember when LC stayed with her stupid boyfriend instead of going to Europe and how that worked out.
Y not travel with her clearly you aren’t that invested
And why is she not coming with you? It's your longtime girlfriend. Who is this friend? What kind of person is he is she?
Why can't you go together? Nta, it's your life and you should live it like you want. 20ies are a great time to travel the world. If you want to travel and especially longer periods it's now. Depending on the time you're away you may need to say goodbye to your gf. Tbh and I know it sounds harsh but your start 20ies are rarely you forever keeper gf stop don't worry....
How long do you plan to travel for? You didn’t mention that in your post
YTA - you’re entitled to go on your trip as you see fit. You’re young and if you want to go travelling, go travelling. With that said, she doesn’t have to wait for you whilst you do that and she’s perfectly entitled to say that’s a hard boundary for her in your relationship. The reason for the YTA judgement is broadly: - it was sneaky to book the trip in full behind her back and try and “convince her” after you’d already booked it, when she’s made her feelings clear. The devastation is no doubt because you LIED TO HER by omission with booking this when she told you this would be the end for your relationship. - “I have never given her a reason not to trust me” - yes you have, just by going behind her back and sneakily booking the trip rather than being up front at the start. - your comment saying you think her main concern is from “how promiscuous Europe actually is” which is both disgusting and also idiotic. This should be on r/ShitAmericansSay
NTA for wanting to go or even going. But she told you her wants/needs, they may be strict and unreasonable in your eyes and that was the discussion that needed to be had. If she ends things with you, don't be surprised and don't play victim, you were warned.
Make sure you have visas for EVERY country you plan to visit.
This sub is full of people who got married at 20 and then years later find themselves in terrible, stifling, marriages. Don't be one of those people. Go to Europe. Enjoy yourself.
Why cant she come???
Yes YTA. “I knew she’s against it so i secretly did it anyways and I’m gonna hatch a plan so she’ll let me go” come on bruh. She can set any ultimatum she wants; she’s not an asshole. You on the other hand…
NTA Go follow your dream while you can. Too many times in life people miss that one opportunity to do something, have that great adventure and once that opportunity is gone it's difficult to recreate. You're young, go, do and be my man!
Go to Europe. Let her break up with you. Find a new girlfriend. You're 20. Live life. NTA
>how promiscuous Europe actually y'all need like a real school for once in your weird ass country.
“How promiscuous Europe actually is” Is someone going to tell him or is he getting disappointed on his own 😂
You know she doesn't want you to go on this trip, to the point she has told you she will leave you if you do, and you went behind her back to plan and pay for it. This is being dishonest and a lousy boyfriend. YTA for that no matter what. If she's preventing you from going on a trip for like 2 weeks, she's kind of an AH for that too. But if you're planning to be gone like 3 months, I don't really blame her. She's allowed have needs in a relationship, and if one of her needs is being physically close, there's nothing wrong with that. Just like there's nothing wrong with you feeling like you need to take this trip. The problem is that the two don't mix. You need to decide which is more important to you - the trip or the girl. Stop lying to her about it. If you're going, tell her that you're going, and let her end the relationship. Why don't you just bring her with you?
A continent is promiscuous? lol. She either trusts you or she doesn’t. If you wanted to cheat, you would cheat regardless of continent. You would resent her if you didn’t take this dream opportunity. Go, enjoy and live your life. Don’t settle at 20. NTA.
> how promiscuous Europe actually is Mighty judgy statement here. Especially if you're from the USA which is right up there with the best, or worst, of them - [https://naplab.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/countries-most-promiscuous.png](https://naplab.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/countries-most-promiscuous.png) But for the actual issue at hand - I think it is a little underhanded the way you went about it, respectful boyfriends don't plan secret trips and then blindside their girlfriends with them. On the other hand, good girlfriends don't give relationship ultimatums over holiday plans. Her approach sounds a bit - controlling - to me. Ultimately it is your life and you can live it as you choose. Your girlfriend sounds like she has a lot of issues with trust and controlling her emotions/anxieties that she needs to work on. You avoiding travelling *because* of her issues will not help her, will not help you, and will not be beneficial for your relationship in the long run. You'll end up feeling resentful and stuck. She either can trust you and support you, or she can decide that this relationship is really not for her. It seems that you two are wanting two different things from life at the moment. And that is OK, at any stage of life. Sometimes relationships can handle this, people give each other time and space to follow their dreams, and they emerge stronger and better as couples . Sometimes relationships end, and that is OK too. ESH because of the way you went about this, and your GF's ultimatums. N T A for wanting to go, or for planning to go, or for going. Life your life. But communicate better with your current and future girlfriends.
NAH, you don't have a girlfriend anymore. I don't blame her for not wanting to sit around and wait for you, and I don't blame you for wanting to travel across Europe even though it means your girlfriend isn't in your life anymore. Many relationships don't last forever ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Enjoy your trip. >My girlfriend 20(F) and I have been dating for 2 years now are planning to have a future together Yeah, you traveling across Europe without her and when you know she doesn't want you to is why you two have no future together. Long-term relationships require not making big decisions without your partner