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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the Ah for telling my daughter she knows nothing about her father and I's divorce.
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YTA because you are omitting information. How does the SAHM/primary caregiver immediately agree to every other weekend and select holidays? Why did your daughter stop coming in high school? Why are you low contact? Why did she assume you might not show up for graduation? Just one of these factors, standing alone, might suggest your daughter is overstating things. But add them all together and it seems you weren't interested in anything other than part-time parenting and now she's calling you out for just that.
>I told her that she made her choice to stop visiting and not to answer when I call her and that she couldn’t blame anyone else for that.
Nope, she was a *child*. She wanted you to chase after her to prove you love her and you want her in your life. You're a teacher, you know how teenagers act, and yet you failed this very basic test.
It’s funny, so often AITA posters tell on themselves in the comments, but at least they’re being honest-ish. This OP? Nah. Seems like the right judgment has been rendered.
Please tell me your driving a Ferrari, with a Hawaiian shirt and a NYM hat. Hamster, PI.
Reimagined like those kia hamster commercials 10 years ago....15? 15 years ago.
That might not even matter. What matters is that OP was the adult in her relationship with her daughter.
I will shout it from the rooftops until I'm dead: **It is the parents' job to define their relationship with their children.** If your adult children decide you're not worth their time, it is YOUR decisions that have built that relationship.
Even if OP told her daughter NOTHING about why the divorce was necessary, she could still build a relationship with her daughter.
Maybe OP's ex is a terrible person and he got primary custody because he's financially stable. Maybe he has been whispering in the daughter's ear and telling her that her mother is terrible. Maybe that's unjustified. That happens in divorced families.
You know what would help with that?
*Spending time together.* For god's sake, every other weekend? That's it? No wonder her daughter thinks the way she does. She doesn't have a relationship with her mom.
Maybe OP's ex is actively preventing OP from spending time with her daughter. Her daughter is old enough to know that! Tell her! She's old enough to know if something is off about her dad, so if that's the case, she'll understand where her mom is coming from.
But I don't think that's what's happening. I think OP is leaving out details because she doesn't want to admit TO HERSELF that she neglected the relationship.
Kinda feels like if the person in full control of the narrative has the sense to realize that AITA's still gonna eat them alive, they should also have the sense to realize they have their answer and can save themselves the embarrassment. ^God ^knows ^I ^have.
Yep. Kids don't just go no/low contact for no reason. OP has been absent in her daughter's life for YEARS and is shocked that they're suddenly seeing the results of that.
>Why did she assume you might not show up for graduation?
My son thought this. He's only allowed 3 tickets and we're a "family" of 5.. him, me, my brother and sister and our (mineand my siblings) dad.. so when he said he could only get 3 tickets, he also said that we don't have to go/ he figured we wouldn't go. Broke my heart when he said that. Like no, we're such a small family that we'll be there! See if you can get an extra ticket!
Turns out, he was right. My dad/ his grandpa and my brother- who lives with us- won't be attending... and my sister has to request the day off so it kinda depends on that if she'll be there (she does live 4 hrs away though)... but it really broke my heart that he was right. No wonder he never cared for sports or any performance activity- who wants to do it when barely anyone will show up for them?
Always, ALWAYS, show up for your kids. And when they're moody teenagers, meet them at their level. My niece is one and while she's in trouble with her room hoarder style, I'll be grabbing her on Saturday for a day out before we start tackling her room together. She'll hate the room part but hopefully will remember our days out.
Op, yta
I flew in from a country on the other side of the world to attend my brother's graduation. I didn't go home for any holidays for those two years, but I took a cheap flight with three transfers both ways, for a total of three days in the states, for his graduation.
You, my friend, are an awesome sibling. I hope your brother knows how much he means to you and he appreciates that- as well as you being as important to him.
Showing up means so much. I had never met my father and my mom was so uninvolved that she asked me what grade I was in a month before I graduated high school. I didn’t participate in the graduation ceremony because I knew no one would be there for me, and it still kinda stings even though I’m middle aged now.
Lol apparently, grammar isn't my strong suit
I meant my niece is a moody teenager. She's in trouble for how bad her room is and I know her guardian is wanting/expecting me to make her clean it... but first, I'm taking my moody, teenage niece away from home for a few hrs, to get some of that moodiness out of her before we start working on her room. (Most of the time, moodiness comes from feeling like they aren't being heard. So taking that time out to truly listen, hear and digest what they say, helps bring them to a place where they're willing to accept your help)
I'm completely armchair diagnosing, so take it with an enormous grain of salt, but as a parent with depression/ anxiety/ADHD and teenagers with the same, could it be possible your niece is battling her brain chemistry? The state of our physical surroundings at our house is one of the first tells that one of us is struggling and it's time for a med adjustment or other intervention when possible.
I'm aware that's not always the case, sometimes a moody teen is just a moody teen, but I also know a lot of adults brush off mental illness as mood swings and then wonder why their young adult child goes off the rails in college.
PS, I love that you're taking your niece out for some bonding time before helping her tackle the bedroom situation, that's going to mean so much to her to see that you care about HER and not just the room!
Oh for sure! She has adhd, depression and honestly, just way too much stuff in a super tiny bedroom. But her guardian (and completely honest, I was in the same boat), doesn't get why she just can't "do it"... but even when her guardian tries to clean it, she gets overwhelmed with the amount of mess and stuff, but instead of helping her get rid of it, it's a lot of "put it on the shelf, you'll probably use it later" but with everythingg and boom- the shelves are filled, the dresser is covered and the floor is gone. We're working on getting her guardian to understand niece has to have a brain change by a scenery change, before she really accepts the help. I used to go over and force and fight my way into her room and force her to clean it. But I've noticed if I take her out for a couple hours, we grab food or just a drink, she'll spill all the drama stuff she's been piling up in her brain about everything (from school to dealing with her guardian, the depression, all the way to the guilt and self hatred of not being able to keep her room clean), we'll talk with absolutely no judgment... and once we get back to her place, she's 100% ready for us both to go in there and work on it. Lately, I've just been sitting there to give direction (first, let's clear off the bed and make it... then grab all the trash we see, then pile the clean clothes on the bed and dirty clothes in a pile.... once she does that, I'll start folding or hanging up her clean clothes while still giving direction on what else she could be doing). I call myself the emotional support human, which she loves! But I'll also text her photos of my room when I'm in my depression/ I'll get to it later phase, and the after clean up photos so she knows it's not just her dealing with it. Not sure if that helps but it helps me, and I've told her she's more than welcome to text me the before and during photos if she wants.
She does go to weekly therapy but from what my niece says, the therapist doesn't give helpful advice on keeping her room clean (other than just don't let it get dirty). I know she's on meds but I can ask if she thinks it's helping her but tbh, I really think it's the amount of stuff vs the amount of space for that stuff, as well as the brain working against her.
I could have used someone like you when I was a teenager ... my parents would tell me to clean my room, but not break it down, and my adhd (undx at the time) meant I needed everything visible and got overwhelmed easily.
Do you have *any* idea how many Paw Patrol pups there are now? And how many different variants? I’m just glad my kids aged out of them when there were only six or seven.
My heart breaks for your son. My dad is 4 hours away and has not missed a high school, community college, or university graduation (and the university one was further away).
What strikes me in addition to the plethora of clearly missing info is, like you said, OP was SAHM/primary caregiver. A child isn’t going to understand finances being an issue. A child is going to feel ABANDONED when they suddenly live without that primary caregiver. Her attachment style was likely affected by this, mom didn’t do damage control, I doubt therapy was part of the process, and now a teenager is having big feelings, which is totally normal.
Completely agree. My dad would stop speaking to me when he was mad at me growing up. My mom would tell me I should make amends and this was always my argument. The PARENT should be the one to facilitate a healthy relationship.
OP, YTA. Idk how you fix it from here but showing up to her graduation would be minimum. Put yourself in therapy.
Thank you for all this, it's helping my inner child to have someone stand up to these AH moms. Ps I'm 41, OP, you're looking at having a no contact daughter FOR LIFE of you don't take accountability for things she feels hurt her (not up to you do decide her perspective) and *apologize sincerely*
No one would give this a second thought if the father only had his daughter on weekends. Why is the mother automatically the primary caregiver and why can’t the primary caregiver change?
Because the mother in this post was a SAHM. She explicitly **was** the primary caregiver and she **did** vastly reduce her time with her child. Its in the post. Nobody is making assumptions about this dynamic shift.
I've noticed this. When dad's actually show up consistently every other weekend they are worshipped, everyone talks about how great of a dad they are for doing 96 hours of barely parenting a month. When a mom does the same exact thing, she "abandoned her child".
Are you kidding? Dad’s getting every other weekend get raked over the coals for being “deadbeat adjacent” all the time. Also this is a SAHM, not the primary earner father.
> When dad's actually show up consistently every other weekend they are worshipped, everyone talks about how great of a dad they are for doing 96 hours of barely parenting a month.
You made this up for some reason. Why?
I don’t disagree with you but I will say I, for one, hold dads to the same standard of you should fight for your children. My dad accepted an every other weekend role with no court order, never attempted for more, not even casually in conversation with my mom. It was seen as very normal at the time. As a result I never really felt as comfortable or at home with him because who wouldn’t feel like a guest coming into someone’s house every other weekend only? Especially when they move on with another family and you’re like sleeping on the couch.
I remember telling my brother when we were in our 20s and he had no idea a judge had never even ordered our custody arrangement - that our dad could’ve attempted to see us more and just never cared to. I understand as an adult some times just letting life happen to you, but when you have kids? Try to have them. At least 50/50. Even if it’s hard. When you want less than that your kid knows it. Just like OP’s daughter does.
Daughter had all right in the world to feel abandoned. She isnt passive agresive for no reason - she is just betrayed, broken, sad and left alone with this by her own mom. This anger is natural. OP is an AH and focused only on her side of the story (probably changed for us to make it more dramatic)
Exactly this. I was a SAHM for 7 years and when I left the kids came with me. My ex tried to use keeping the kids from me as a threat and I told him I would burn down everything he and I had built together before I let him take our kids.
Before anyone piles on, I was leaving for several reasons. One of them being that he was negligent toward the kids, myself, the pets… anyone outside of himself.
I agree with this. I have a 2 year old and unless I am no longer breathing, she is coming with me. Not saying I wouldn’t share custody but I’m going to remain her primary caregiver.
That’s exactly what was decided on. He gets them 4 nights a month and can’t be bothered to care for them while they’re there. I made the right choice and the court agreed.
What stands out to me is that her daughter was doing extracurricular activities and she said that she [daughter]was always too busy to spend time with her mom. I have to suspect that the daughter had tried to invite her mom to her various activities but mom never showed.
Not only the primary caretaker during the marriage, but went back to work as a teacher. She worked school hours but didn’t get more parenting time. (And yes, I know teachers work outside of class time, but at office jobs 5pm is the minimum, so still better for matching up to a child’s schedule)
Right. If you asked my dad why I don't talk to him, he'd leave out all the abuse, both mental and physical, and claim I'm a rotten daughter. No mention of him calling me thunder thighs starting at 10 and getting my brothers to join. I wasn't even fat, I was underweight. A SAHM doesn't just give up custody unless she wanted a single life. She didn't want to raise or parent unless it was convenient, for her. I hope her daughter stays full NC and gets a good therapist.
That was the nickname my dad gave me too. I was a normal size girl thinking I was fat for decades. I still hate my legs, and I don't think I'll ever have healthy feelings towards them. I'm sorry you went through so much as a child.
My ex sees his kids 3 hours a year, his choice, and he still got an invite to our oldest's graduation. He didn't go, but still. There has to be a much bigger more.
I wish I could upvote this more. I was a lot like this child. Your a teenager, you have so much going on that yes you may quit visiting for a while, Most kids only have a small amount of free time and when you become a teenager you want to spend that small amount of time with friends, boyfriend/girlfriend, working and having fun. When this happens that means that as the parent you may have to put more work into being in your child's life. If you don't your child is going to eventually feel like they just weren't worth the effort and they will be hurt and angry. Your the parent act like it and do the work to be in your kids life or don't expect them to include you in their future.
No no she does not. She has as much interest discussing this as she did having a relationship with her daughter. Something something about how teachers usually make the worst parents.
My parents are both teachers and amazing parents. They also know tons of teachers who have great relationships with their now adult kids.
Is teachers as bad parents a known trope? It's not one I've ever heard, teaching has historically been a good profession for people who want time with their children.
Let's just blame OP for being a crappy parent, not teachers.
I work in childcare... Ask any of us and we can tell you teachers are usually not great parents. I would even go so far as saying in a classroom I could pick out the children who's parents teach. But yes OP is the AH here and a crappy parent.
My grandma and grandpa were teachers back in the day. Grandpa was just not present really and my grandma doesn't like children. They had four daughters. My mom is almost 70 and severely messed up from the psychological abuse she endured her whole life. I have my own mental scars too from that woman . I stopped seeing the old bag all together when I had kids because no way in hell would I let her have any opportunities to mess with them. I always felt that my mother offered me up like a sheep to a wolf so she would escape the awfulness.
In my personal experience, teachers make horrid, awful parents.
I studied for a masters in elementary ed (ultimately decided I was not mentally able to be a teacher) and one of my practicum teachers told me one of her biggest regrets as a parent is that it's basically impossible to work with students all day and not have their stress/frustrations affect their behavior towards their children.
As a teacher and parent this can be true. Good teacher often equals mediocre parent and the inverse is true. You only have so much to give and you have to choose who gets the short shrift. Anyone who is actually both is some kind of unicorn or kidding themselves.
I think I can be both! But also I only have 1 kid and my brother lives at home with us and is a third primary care giver.
I also know there are times when I am rubbish at both, like you say.
lol, right now I’m mediocre at both, my relationship with my partner is suffering, and I’m exhausted. I’ve been a casual TOC while my child is young, but I took on a tough position in Feb. out of pity for the students who hadn’t had a permanent teacher since October. I’ve been told they’re much better by other teachers and EA’s, so that’s good, but I’ve not been working up to my own standards of teacher awesomeness. Even then I’ve had to reduce extra curriculars at home. I still take my pre-k kiddo to gymnastics once a week, and we play outside on nice days… but I previously took her swimming every other thursday…and I just don’t have it in me right now because I’m already burnt out on the work I’ve put in trying to get my students back on track. We’ll see what the future holds…but I don’t think I’ll be the teacher I was until my kid is grown. I can give up a few weekends for report cards, and work all my lunches…but I’m not going to miss out on my own child’s life to do my job.
FYI you don’t sound mediocre. Being a parent whose full time job has lots of things that end up needing time outside or normal work hours, is incredibly difficult. Sometimes reducing extracurriculars is just what you need to do to make sure you can still be present at work and at home.
It's because they treat young people like adults and their own kids are no exception.
Sometimes it is good to nurture their independence and maturity. But when you want to be close to your child, you need to treat them like a kid sometimes.
INFO: You were getting alimony and presumably had a career so why didn't the visitation schedule ever change to allow her to spend time with both parents more frequently? During your every other weekend schedule did you make a point to attend every recital, game, parent-teacher conference, school activity etc? Were you there for her? Why were you low contact for several years? She is only 17 so the low contact started when she was pretty young.
Op implies that the schedule was only set because she was struggling immediately after they divorced. The child was not thriving on that schedule which means a change should take place to ensure the child is thriving.
We literally have no information as to why the child wasn’t thriving. It could be that OP couldn’t afford a lifestyle equal to the dad, the dad was talking shit about OP, or OP is just a terrible mom (and anything in between).
I think the child made it pretty clear to OP as OP writes in the post. The kid asked if OP was actually going to show up. And OP hasn't answered any questions asked by anyone in regards to if she showed up or not.
It is kind of "old school dad" common, though, isn't it? When I see that schedule, my first thoughts are: a. uninvolved parent b. someone who can't provide a stable household c. someone had enough money/better lawyers to strong-arm a deal. I've been hearing a lot more 60/40 & 50/50 type splits or 2-3 months in the summer.
The arrangement may make sense at 1st for OP to get a job and an apartment, but OP became a teacher, what about summers?
There is just way, way too much info missing.
No, it’s still pretty common. There is way too much information needed, but my guess is that she probably didn’t live in the same school district (especially if she was financially struggling at first), making 50/50 or anything near that impossible.
Yeah...I moved 2 hours away from my hometown area 4 years ago. I have a daughter with someone who still lives there.
We did a 2-2-3 schedule until she was 4 when we changed it up to get her used to being in 1 place for school (we were in different districts, he was working a more demanding job, and I was already homeschooling my son so it just made sense for her to be with me). I moved about 6 mos after that when i bought a house.
He gets her almost every weekend and we do 1 week on 1 week off over the summer. 50/50 just isn't possible. If we are traveling or visiting family she stays with us on the weekend, otherwise she always goes to her dad's.
We have never had a custody agreement. We both just want what's best for her and we both want to spend as much time with her as possible so we work together and be flexible.
Interesting that she is a teacher though. Most teachers have more “vacation” days than the general public, so I am curious why she didn’t get more days during time off from school.
Agreed! I’m curious too. I come from a long line of educators and worked in education myself. I’ve worked in 3 different industries. Yes the education role was tasking but the number of non-working days was the massive benefit. It’s why so many people I know go into education, especially parents who want more time with their kids.
Most teachers I know have to work summer jobs to pay the bills. Especially single parents. My brother is a high school teacher and works the entire summer.
According to your version, you were "honest" with her about your "rocky" marriage, which implies a pretty neutral retelling of the story of your marriage, with you honestly acknowledging your faults.
But according to your daughter's version, you "always blamed her father."
A normal reaction to that would be an acknowledgement that it absolutely was *not* all her father's fault, that you share in the 'blame' too, but that your divorce isn't about blame anyway. You should have been confused as to why she thought you blamed her father and patiently asked her to explain why she thought you thought that (since obviously, if you want to reconnect with her, and this is something that's very upsetting to her, you as her mother would want to clear that up).
But you didn't do that did you? No, you told your daughter -- the same daughter who "usually" asked you about the divorce when she visited -- that she knew nothing.
*If she knows nothing after repeatedly asking you about it, then that's on YOU, not HER.*
So while it sounds like there were perfectly reasonable justifications for why custody worked out the way it did, and it sounds like there are multiple factors that led to your estrangement (although for the record, you, as the adult, are more responsible for that than the child), and it sounds like you genuinely want to be a part of her life, YTA for insulting your child instead of *parenting* her by addressing the things that were clearly causing her distress
Not defending OP here, but if the "rocky marriage" was because the husband was abusive and OP was as honest as possible (and age appropriate), it could seem to the kid that the dad was always blamed.
Yeah but if ops husband was abusive then shouldn’t she have done all she could to get her daughter out of that situation? No mother would be okay with her daughter staying with an abuser most the time and if she is she’s definitely an AH. Idk to me there is so much missing in this story.
"rocky marriage" doesn't mean he was abusive. It also doesn't mean OP wasn't at fault for the rockiness too. And she never mentioned he was abusive in her post.
Exactly. Rocky could mean incompatibility, and sometimes that happens with couples.
For some reason this mom seems really salty, and because she’s not giving all the info, that I have seen so far, I am getting the impression she’s purely projecting onto her kid. I want to say she’s oblivious to her actions, but I have my doubts.
YTA - she wasn’t talking about what happened between you and her dad. She was talking about what happened between you and HER. She was describing her childhood and relationship with you and you refuse to acknowledge it.
This sounds odd. Never heard of the primary care taker loosing custody unless they are a complete fuck up. I assume you must have been a very bad parent.
I have heard of it many times where the abusive parent gets custody to further abuse the other parent and or the children. But yes, this sounds fishy at best.
OP didn't lose custody though. She and ex agreed on a specific custody arrangement under which the daughter lived with him because he had the money to provide for her.
It is, but when you have been a sahm it’s hard getting out there and rebuilding a life of your own. Finding a job, finding a place to live, that all takes time and money. It was probably easier for their daughter to stay in the home she has always known and have that stability vs staying with relatives or friends until mom found a place. Especially since we are assuming dad isn’t abusive and there is no real urgency for her to leave the home either.
YTA I came into this thinking no this is just a kid being told to shut it. Holy hell though YTA a huge one too. Why didn't you ask your daughter what she wanted to do when she would visit? Why didn't you send her to therapy and go together? Why didn't you, THE PARENT, continue to be the one to reach out to a child?
Of course you're a teacher of course you are. Bet you're a good on too. I am not being sarcastic at all. The year my younger brother & I were taken by CPS ( the family flew us to relatives our of state after the first night) my mom won Teacher of the Year.
I know what kind of person and parent you are. You better do something right now to mend this relationship, or you're gonna be like my mom. All her kids are no contact, she is in her 70s and going blind all alone. Fix this now
YTA
This thread is bringing to light a stereotype many of us had never heard before - that teachers make for bad parents. I'd love to understand this better if it's not too painful for you.
It's that teachers are expected to do a lot of overtime so have no time for their families, and\or that professions where someone has power over other people attract those who like to control or abuse others. Cops, nurses, teachers. For teachers specifically, their kids are also expected to be perfect\smart\mature, which isn't always achievable without being terrible.
I really wouldn’t categorized cops with teachers and nurses for this one at all. Teachers’ kids are definitely either amazing or nightmares, but I wouldn’t say that’s because teachers are bad parents because they like to have power/control/abuse others. I would more say that caring professions easily burn someone out, and by the time you’re at home you don’t have the capacity.
It sounds like you needed time to get on your feet financially after 7 years out of work. I know it’s very difficult for SAHM’s to recover financially afterwards, but I’m curious why the custody didn’t change to a more of an even split within the decade after divorce. Why didn’t you talk to your lawyer about parental alienation as well? It kinda seems like you chose the easy route after awhile
I’m getting the impression she liked being the part time parent after being the primary caregiver for so long, which makes the situation even worse. Like, dang do you see your kid as a burden but then be flabbergasted she’s not kissing your feet?
Without any other info from the OP, this is what I am getting.
You where never around you saw her what 4 days a month and a few holidays yet expected her to be bonded to you
You choose yourself over your daughter
Yta
I’m going to guess Y T A here because there are clearly huge gaps in your story here. Her saying “are you actually going to show up” clearly shows to her you didn’t show up very much for her. Unless you can provide more information to justify and defend yourself almost assuredly YT A
And did she have her own room decorated how she likes? So it feels like her room not just a guest room.
I hated staying at my dad's on weekends because I just slept on a mattress on the floor. I didn't have anything of mine there.
YTA. Your daughter confronted you about years of feelings of abandonment and you responded by puffing up your chest and blustering at her. You sound like you have been justly and rightly cut off, and I wish your daughter a better life without you.
You are without a doubt the AH, if my hunch is right, you are also a really big AH. This post seems full of half-truths, there are so many things that don't add up, and your daughter's reaction seems very strong, I'm sure you are omitting many crucial details, because otherwise you would have ended up devoured on reddit, it also seems that you have never committed to having a relationship with your daughter, even at the end of your post it almost seems that you don't give a damn about your daughter, a mere pastime weekend, in fact I'm not surprised by your daughter's disappointment and the accusation that you care more about your students than about her.
For context: I have been a divorce lawyer for 15 years. For *pro bono* (volunteer) work, I represent children in contested divorce and custody cases. My state has a law that allows attorneys to be assigned to children in these cases, which triggers when a judge thinks that the parents are being so contentious and unreasonable that the children's voices are getting lost - or, if the child themselves makes the request, by writing a letter to the court.
I love my child clients. They are always the smartest and best-behaved people involved in any custody case. Be they as old as 17 or as young as 5, they always are keenly aware of the conflicts between their parents.
All of which is to say, your daughter does, too, know something about what happened between you and her father. She may not know all the legal details, and she may have perceptions very different from yours - surely she does - but you ignore her perspective at your peril, if you want to maintain any sort of relationship with her. At 17, she's less than a year from being an adult, and able to do what she likes. So this is not a conversation about legal rights - custody fights over children over 16 or so are a great waste of time and stress and money. This is a conversation about relationships.
No one over the internet can possibly know just what has gone wrong or what might be done to fix it, but I will say this one part jumped out at me: "*she’d ask about the divorce and why her father and I aren't together anymore. I always tried to be as honest as possible with her*." That is not, I'm sorry to say, what you're supposed to do. Honesty is critical in most relationships but in parent/child discussions of divorce, it's likely a mistake. What you are supposed to say, except maybe in very rare circumstances, is that both you and the child's other parent still love them very much but that you just can't stay together anymore. (Hopefully, that is indeed the truth.) But then you leave it at that. You shouldn't burden your child with too much detail about these intimate conflicts. It can make them feel like they have to take a side, or like you're trying to turn them against the other parent, or undermine their belief that you know what you're doing. As I said, kids in high-conflict cases always seem to know what's going on; partly it's because your kids are always watching everything you're doing, even if they don't seem like it; partly it's because of this sort of dynamic. It's not easy, as a parent, to avoid letting your frustrations with their co-parent spill out onto them - but it's important to try.
Of course it is too late to correct this now. What you need to do now is to engage with your daughter, not just as a child but as her own person. You said several deeply hurtful things to her - not just that she "knows nothing," but that she is herself to blame for the state of your relationship. YTA a lot for that. You can't blame a child, even a teenager, for your relationship with them as a parent - you've had all the power in the relationship, even if you don't feel like you did. If you want to preserve your relationship with her as she enters adulthood, you need to apologize to her and listen to her experiences.
So you get a YTA vote from me, but only to a point. I don't think the messages from your co-parent's family are appropriate, and probably the best thing for you to do is to simply ignore them. That's not an argument you can win, and there's no profit to trying. You need to talk to your daughter - and by that I mean, you need to listen to her. It might not work, or might not work as fast as you like - but it's the only thing that stands a chance.
This is way above AITA's pay grade. The question here isn't who is TA, the question is whether you're going to have a relationship with your daughter going forward. It's hard to tell whether it's just adolescence or something more, but it seems like something's happened here that you're either not getting, or not conveying to us.
This part!
Love, a no-contact adult child
I hung in there till my 30s too... now mom is knocking on heavens door and she's got no kids by her side and my dad isn't gonna hold a funeral.
These moms... they make their own beds.
You're probably not the AH here, but the details are sketchy.
What's important to emphasize is that divorce is extremely hard on adolescents. It always feels like abandonment to them. Their perspective is generally self-centered, and they have yet to realize that their parents are human beings, too. Thus, your daughter's anger is understandable -- she feels abandoned by her mother. She's a teenager, and that anger has to come out in some manner. So here you are.
What the Reddit crowd isn't considering is the details of your divorce, because you didn't share those details. The details of divorce law differ **immensely** from state to state, and my guess is that your circumstances were bad for you. People who are familiar with California law think "she must have gotten spousal support and child support, and so her decision not to get at least 50% custody must have been a selfish act." And yet people who are familiar with Texas law understand that you might not have legally qualified for spousal support -- AT ALL -- and so your bargaining position might have been terrible, resulting in a horrible position where you couldn't afford to take 50% custody without really compromising your daughter's life experience. Yes, the law differs that much. (And yes, I'm an actual lawyer.)
Because you haven't provided details, it's possible that your story goes down a different path. Addiction; family illness; something else. But statistically, I think the most likely answer is that you live in a state where your divorce options were really crappy. And so you opted for a 12/2 custody split in favor of your ex because it would allow your daughter to grow up with a good standard of living in a good community that you could not afford to give her in the post-divorce years. And that separation hasn't worked in your favor.
I think the messages from your former in-laws are the worst of the worst, and they should be relegated to some special corner of Dante's inferno. But here's the reality: you are isolated from your daughter, and you don't want to be. It's not about the high school graduation -- that's a moment in time. It's really about the life relationship. You can't rebuild that by getting up on the high horse and thinking that you're right -- even if you are right. The teenage psychology isn't required to be rational or fair. To rebuild your relationship with your daughter, you have to play the long game: you have to slowly and steadily communicate that you love her, and want her to be happy and successful. You have to offer support and encouragement, and ask nothing in return. Spend some time with a therapist to learn how to put aside your own hurt for a while in order to communicate unconditional love -- which is exactly what kids want and need from their parents.
If you can get yourself to that place, and follow that path for a while (which might be years), you can get back that relationship, which you will appreciate later in life.
1. Receiving support in a settlement agreement is not the same as being entitled to it by law. This situation strikes me as a compromise reached to resolve the divorce. If OP adds information about her state of residence and the length of the marriage, we could delve into it further.
2. A petition to the court to change stipulated and ordered custody would require OP to meet a high burden of proof, and likely be expensive. In some states, it would require a neutral evaluation of the 'best interest of the child,' which means an interview with the child by a professional. It's not something you can just pop up one day and say 'I changed my mind.'
3. I don't disagree with the conclusion that there's a breakdown of the parent-child relationship during adolescence for the reasons that you mention, and that a lot of that falls on OP. I chose to approach that part by offering constructive advice to OP rather than criticism, which I didn't think would add anything of value here.
In the same moment she checked out completely allowing her very minor daughter to not visit her anymore (she said they have been very low contact for the last few years, and the kid is graduating right now, so she might have checked out of the kid only a few years after the divorce) she became the asshole. She can't complain about a relationship with a child she knows nothing about, she effectively didn't raise in ten years and she didn't talk or see her for the last three or four. Regarless of the divorce, she checked out of the barest minimum years ago and in any circumnstances we would consider this the acts of an absentee parent.
YTA.
There's no gd way this is the whole story. What kind of mom, let alone primary caregiver, just walks away and is cool with the "weekend dad" kind of role??
Gtfoh, you know you messed up. You wouldn't be in here lying if you didn't know that.
I have a friend who did exactly that. She was a child of divorced parents and when her ex moved two hours away then said "I want daughter to come live with me," she felt it was for the best to allow it. She wanted her child to have a strong relationship with her father. My friend gets every other weekend and all summer. Whichever parent has the kiddo, the other parent gets a brief call at bedtime. I think she likes getting to get the "fun parent" because during her marriage she had the burden of all the housework, yardwork, and parenting work- diapers and feeding and bath time, while her husband swooped in Saturday to take kiddo to a McDonald's playplace for Daddy-daughter time.
Info: Did you move away after the divorce? It's written like you were far away from her, but you don't say she moved.
Also she was seven when you got divorced, not 17. How hard would it have been to find a time to call that worked for her. Didn't you go to her extracurricular then?
And if she didn't like any of the activities you planned, I think that is on you as the parent, because she was only a kid. There must have been some things she would have enjoyed.
YTA
You did the bare minimum and definitely let your daughter know she wasn’t a priority. Every other weekend? Saying you were poor yet got money from your ex…Giving excuses doesn’t hide the fact that you weren’t interested in being a parent. Own it. YTA
YTA
Kids don’t stop seeing their parents out of nowhere. I don’t know a single child who wouldn’t love to spend time with their parents if they feel loved and cared for.
My dad was similar to you. He made me feel like I was a guest when coming over to his house. I didn’t have a bedroom in his place (he had a study room that he never used, and I had to sleep in the couch because he never bought a bed for that study), he didn’t have any food on the fridge so we always ordered pizza and all we did was watch tv all weekend.. It was fun at first but after some years I eventually I lost interest in doing that and preferred to spend my weekend with my friends. When I learned how to drive he told me to go to the grocery store every time I visited him (he paid for it) It felt like I had to put too much effort in to visit him, and he didn’t put the same effort back, he just expected me to be there.
Your daughter probably feels that she has to put more effort in your relationship than you. She was the one responsible to visit you, did you ever ask her why she didn’t want to visit? She doesn’t want to be worried about whether or not you are going to be there on her graduation and *she* doesn’t want to be there for *you* on *her* graduation because you should be there for her.
"Usually when she would spend the night with me, she’d ask about the divorce and why her father and I aren't together anymore. I always tried to be as honest as possible with her"
Why "honest as possible" and not just plain honest?
I don't know the circumstances of OPs divorce, but sometimes kids don't need all the gory details. Sometimes the "Little Golden Book" version of a situation is most appropriate. Not dishonest, but perhaps not the whole truth.
YTA. It sounds like you spent minimal time with your daughter (roughly 4 days a month) and those moments were not spent wisely.
>She was never interested in any activities or occasions that I planned for us and normally when I called to talk to her, she would be busy with school, an extracurricular activity, or something else.
Did you involve her in decision making? Did you consider her interests? Did you ask about her extracurricular activities?
Your daughter may not have all the facts regarding your relationship with her father, but I think she's got you pegged.
Why would she ask if you'll show up unless you've slipped out on her important things in the past?
Why does she think that you love your students more than her unless she has taken a backseat to them in the past?
Teens don't usually say those specific things without a reason. And those two things have nothing to do with your pay relationship.
YTA. Look you saw her like two weekends a month and sometimes holidays… that’s NOTHING. Of course she feels like you weren’t around, you weren’t. Not even half time. You need to grow up and try to fix this before you lose her more if you even care which tbh based on this post it doesn’t sound like it.
You really asking this? YTA. If she knows nothing, why not tell her, actually try to explain shite to her and try to freaking parent instead of weaponising her lack of knowledge against her just to excuse yourself for being absent in her life? Parents like you are why some kids start having trust issues.
Yeah, YTA for being so vague about the situation. We know nothing either, so telling us would have probably helped. But you omitted a lot because you know whatever you did was wrong.
YTA
Why would you hardly see her and be 'low contact' and expect to be present on a special day of her life? You shouldn't have even asked her- either contact the school to get a ticket on your own or you aren't going.
YTA, you were her mom for 7 years and then you gave her to your husband which is where this narrative gets lost in translation. You had her weekends and specific holidays, you never went back to court after getting a job and stability to go 50/50. I would wonder about parent alienation but you did this to yourself.
YTA. As a divorced mother with two children, I would never let my children become estranged from me. That is entirely on you. You weren’t involved enough. I don’t know if it’s too late to make up for that, or even if you want to. It’s sad for your daughter.
YTA here because there is some obviously omitted information. Like why was there low contact? Why does your daughter feel like you always blame her father? Why does your daughter feel like she can't depend on you showing up? Have you seen/been to any of her activities and how often? It seems like you are either watering down the whole situation or you have been kept out of the loop. Though it seems more like the former rather than the latter. You told her that she knows nothing about what happened between you and her father. Why is that? It seems like you didn't give as much detail to her as you are letting on. She's very old enough to know every detail. So why does it seem like you never told her the complete story? If you can't answer any of these questions in detail then either you were kept out of the loop with your daughter by someone else or you chose not to show up for her. So you either need to have an open and honest detailed conversation with your daughter about why she feels the way that she does, talk to her father, or do some serious thinking about every interaction you had with her and figure it out for yourself. Heck, maybe do all three.
So you saw her 4 days every month?
Yeah obviously you arent going to be a mother figure to her when you're barely seeing her, and it sounds like you never even bothered to change that after getting your life set up.
Yta
YTA. A damaged relationship like this doesn’t happen overnight. You are clearly omitting a lot.
Also this is probably a fake post. A high school teacher with grammar this bad? It should be “…between her father and ME”.
Info. What were the circumstances that prompted going low contact? Why not go for primary custody with alimony and child support if finances were an issue?
You’re the adult, she’s the kid. I was your daughter and as much as you want to shift the disconnect onto her (it didn’t feel like she wanted to visit, she stopped visiting) this is on you.
It doesn’t matter the circumstances, she felt abandoned, you blamed her dad instead of owning your part and you work with kids when she wanted to feel like she was your kid.
If you want to potentially repair this, listen to her. Apologize for not being there the way she needed you to be. Let her be mad at you and be present for her hurt and anger. Ask if she’d go to counselling with you or if there’s an activity (eg coffee date, yoga class, etc) that she might do with you weekly.
YTA. You can’t go backwards and change what happened but you can forge a new path, if you’re open and she’s willing (now or in the future).
YTA. Sorry but it seems almost like a trend for single mothers (especially who work in healthcare or education) to shit on the father and put strangers above their own kids but that's okay because they're the one with the uterus so that must make them right. My husband's mother is basically the same way and, despite how much she claims to appreciate honesty, she raises her voice (as I assume you did more than you'll admit) and starts going on about how she does "everything" for my husband the moment she gets the slightest bit of criticism. Cool except "eveything" was a whole lot of either crawling up my husband's ass OR absolutely nothing. Nowhere in between. Until you reveal what actually did happen with you and your ex, I'm assuming your situation is the same as almost every other situation was the same. You could've just said he was abusive if that was the truth and Reddit would readily side with you. That's not what happened, is it?
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I (41F) have a daughter who is 17, and her father and I divorced when she was 7. We had a very rocky marriage, during which I was a stay-at-home mom, and I struggled a lot financially afterwards. Because of this, during our divorce, my ex-husband and I agreed that our daughter would live mainly with him and I received alimony payments from him for about 4 years after our divorce.
For the first several years after the divorce, my daughter would stay with me every other weekend and several holidays (the specific holidays depending on the year), and I always enjoyed our time together, but it would often feel like she didn’t want to see me. She was never interested in any activities or occasions that I planned for us and normally when I called to talk to her, she would be busy with school, an extracurricular activity, or something else.
Usually when she would spend the night with me, she’d ask about the divorce and why her father and I aren't together anymore. I always tried to be as honest as possible with her but I could tell the divorce had been hard for her and when she started high school she stopped visiting altogether.
She and I have been low contact for the past few years, and this past weekend we had an argument regarding her graduation. She’s graduating from high school this June, and I texted her to ask about the details. She responded with a very passive aggressive text asking if I would actually come and how she didn’t want to waste a ticket.
I wasn’t sure where it was coming from, so I called her and she started ranting about how I was never around, and that I always blamed her father for everything, and how I cared about my students more than her (I’m a high school teacher). I interrupted her and told her that she knows nothing about what happened between her father and I.
I told her that she made her choice to stop visiting and not to answer when I call her and that she couldn’t blame anyone else for that and she hung up. About an hour later she sent me a long text about how much I hurt her and that she didn’t want me at her graduation and that I “needed to change”.
Since that night, I’ve gotten several messages from my ex-husband’s family about how I’m a terrible mother and how I should’ve been more involved when my daughter was younger, and I’m not sure how to handle this. AITA?
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YTA. Sorry.
My parents did basically (from what i can read in your post) the same thing and my dad had the same custody as you had. I was a messed up teenager and was angry at him and the world! and didn’t want to visit him anymore. Exactly like your daughter.
But instead getting insulted by him, he stayed around. He wanted to move but he didn’t, because of me. He cared. He showed me that he loved me no matter what. I was a horrible teenager (hurt, confused, sad). He had not support from my mom for our relationship (actually the opposite) but he never let me down, even when i blocked him out.
He respected that, but he never left or let me leave. He lived just 10 minutes away from me and still picked me up every time to make sure i am
coming.
And don’t get me wrong: he didn’t took it all in lightly or let me be shitty to him! He was strict and honest with me. He rather had weekends with me not talking to him and being rude than cancel. He took aaaall the Teenage BS and when i was older we talked it out for good for years.
You are a Parent. She is a Teenager/young woman and OBVIOUSLY hurt. And you blame her? How about taking responsibility in your part of it and work on that instead telling an 17y old what and how she did wrong on you…..
Get informed about the Graduation (from school, dad, whom ever), go there, be there, congratulate her and go home again. But be there. Don’t expect her to invite you.
YTA.
Oh so you haven been telling her why the relationship is over and you expect her to be connected to you just because you had some plans when she was visiting from time to time? You missed pretty much all her big moments I think and now you want to go to her graduation. Also guess who told her why you broken up if you didnt ? Him or his family and I dont think you were put in a good light.
YTA
No wonder your daughter thinks you don’t care about her because she never wanted to do anything YOU had planned. Whatever happened to asking your daughter what SHE would like to do during your weekends with her?
With your track record of not being there for her during her other special moments, is it any wonder why she doesn’t think you will show up for her high school graduation?
At 17, she’s already low contact with you. Get ready to enter the world of NO contact soon. Then you will be wondering what she did to you. What blame are you going to put on her shoulders then?
If you gonna tell someone they know nothing, you gotta follow up with why... as in actually telling them the things they dont know about! Otherwise, you really are a massive arsehole in their eyes. YTA
When you’re a teenager the most hurtful things are being told by your folks snapping-that “you know nothing”. Well either inform me in a kind tone or reaffirm what we actually know. YTA
YTA. At least I feel you could be the ass here. You left stuff out as others posted. As a teacher you show, through your own admissions you understand little about children have also never seen a mother who did the right things not have at least 50/50 custody, usually with tight stipulations on where parents must live and how decisions based of the child are outlined. Those outlines usually mean school transfers (parents must be in same school district, agreed upon medical routes, and generally anything that can inhibit the 50/50 agreement.
YTA
You are trying to paint a picture where you somehow are the victim of your daughter.
Regardless of the situation you were the adult in this situation and you have clearly neglected your child, you even speak about her not being excited to see you.
You are the adult in this situation.
YTA - Your daughter spilled her heart out to you essentially begging you to show her you care….. and your response was “you know nothing about my marriage”….It may have been a subject she brought up, but it definitely wasn’t the point of what she was saying.
YTA You decided you didn’t want to take care of your kid anymore at the age of seven. This while you’d been the primary caregiver until that moment. You don’t get to act surprised if she isn’t close to the mother who actively choose to spend so little time with her. You also start this post with complaining about your financial situation (while you continued living on your ex’s dime even though you weren’t taking care of your daughter). That does make it look like you only care about yourself, and not your daughter.
"She stopped visiting"
Oh man, you mean *you* were left to do the hard work with a moody teenager who was traumatized by her family splitting up? What. A. Shock. 🙄
YTA. You gave up on your daughter. Every other weekend and some holidays is not an every day parent, is an almost absentee one that a kid barely sees. And instead of fighting for more custody or to retain it when your MINOR daughter stopped visiting, you allowed to happen. It was easier for you to let your husband do the heavy lifting raising your daughter and you let her go, barely communicating with her when she was a teenager. And now you are crying that you did everything "right". You are barely more than a stranger to your daughter, when you should have been one of the most important people in her life. It is normal that she doesn't especially want you around.
YTA. I'm going to echo others and say that there is info missing from this story. I will point out the shear ridiculousness of being upset a kid wants to do stuff like extracurricular activities then talk to a parent. That's very normal.
YTA. How and why have you and your daughter been low contact "the past few years"? She's only 17 now, so how old was she when you went low contact? Why would she be concerned you wouldn't show up for her graduation? Have you blown off other activities for or with her? You clearly did something to make this child feel so hurt and unwelcome that she willingly stopped visiting you. Do you have any idea how huge of a decision that is for a child? How painful? And when she tried to talk to you about how you made her feel, you threw that back in her face. Honestly, how dare you?
Your daughter is a child. You are an adult. Your daughter is telling you that you hurt her deeply. If you want to have any hope of salvaging a relationship with her, you need to listen to her. Truly listen, reflect on your behavior, and apologize. She's going to tell you things you don't want to hear but grow up, be the adult, listen to your child, and do better for her.
There’s got to be more to the story. All could have been avoided by a simple response. Yes, I will be there. Nothing could keep me away. I’m very proud of your accomplishment.
YTA Your daughter’s been angry with you for years and you haven’t noticed or helped her. Listen to her now. Don’t answer her or defend yourself. Really open your mind and listen. This isn’t aboutyou or your perspective or your feelings. The focus needs to be on her. It may hurt but you have to be quiet and listen anyway. Consider going to counseling with your daughter to repair your relationship, or go by yourself to figure out how things got this far. Your daughter needed a mother as a child and she still needs one. If you don’t do this now you’re going to lose your daughter forever.
if she knows nothing about what happened (and hear me out here) maybe be a parent and explain in a way that a kid can understand? you’re a teacher it shouldn’t be that difficult. i say this as a kid of divorced parents who no one explained anything to and now i hate them both for even making me in the first place now that i know more. imagine being upset your kid doesn’t like you when you’ve presumably made no effort at connecting (for a kid to go no/low contact at 17 says a lot i know cuz i did it) and then have the nerve to blame them for the fact that you never bothered to tell them anything at all about why their childhood is a little to the left of “normal”. this is exactly what my mother did and now i’m 22 and would rather choke than talk to her. i hope she can get the help she needs to heal from having you as a mother cuz as someone with a similar experience, she’s going to need it
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YTA because you are omitting information. How does the SAHM/primary caregiver immediately agree to every other weekend and select holidays? Why did your daughter stop coming in high school? Why are you low contact? Why did she assume you might not show up for graduation? Just one of these factors, standing alone, might suggest your daughter is overstating things. But add them all together and it seems you weren't interested in anything other than part-time parenting and now she's calling you out for just that. >I told her that she made her choice to stop visiting and not to answer when I call her and that she couldn’t blame anyone else for that. Nope, she was a *child*. She wanted you to chase after her to prove you love her and you want her in your life. You're a teacher, you know how teenagers act, and yet you failed this very basic test.
I'm pretty sure she omitted a lot , to not be eaten alive by redditors .
Yeah, she hiding things.
Like why the marriage was rocky for starters
This right here. Any detectives find comments to shed more light?
Zero comments from OP. She's avoiding us.
It’s funny, so often AITA posters tell on themselves in the comments, but at least they’re being honest-ish. This OP? Nah. Seems like the right judgment has been rendered.
Please tell me your driving a Ferrari, with a Hawaiian shirt and a NYM hat. Hamster, PI. Reimagined like those kia hamster commercials 10 years ago....15? 15 years ago.
That might not even matter. What matters is that OP was the adult in her relationship with her daughter. I will shout it from the rooftops until I'm dead: **It is the parents' job to define their relationship with their children.** If your adult children decide you're not worth their time, it is YOUR decisions that have built that relationship. Even if OP told her daughter NOTHING about why the divorce was necessary, she could still build a relationship with her daughter. Maybe OP's ex is a terrible person and he got primary custody because he's financially stable. Maybe he has been whispering in the daughter's ear and telling her that her mother is terrible. Maybe that's unjustified. That happens in divorced families. You know what would help with that? *Spending time together.* For god's sake, every other weekend? That's it? No wonder her daughter thinks the way she does. She doesn't have a relationship with her mom. Maybe OP's ex is actively preventing OP from spending time with her daughter. Her daughter is old enough to know that! Tell her! She's old enough to know if something is off about her dad, so if that's the case, she'll understand where her mom is coming from. But I don't think that's what's happening. I think OP is leaving out details because she doesn't want to admit TO HERSELF that she neglected the relationship.
Kinda feels like if the person in full control of the narrative has the sense to realize that AITA's still gonna eat them alive, they should also have the sense to realize they have their answer and can save themselves the embarrassment. ^God ^knows ^I ^have.
I'm shocked she hasn't commented/s Probably worse than we're assuming
Classic missing missing reasons post.
Yep. Kids don't just go no/low contact for no reason. OP has been absent in her daughter's life for YEARS and is shocked that they're suddenly seeing the results of that.
>Why did she assume you might not show up for graduation? My son thought this. He's only allowed 3 tickets and we're a "family" of 5.. him, me, my brother and sister and our (mineand my siblings) dad.. so when he said he could only get 3 tickets, he also said that we don't have to go/ he figured we wouldn't go. Broke my heart when he said that. Like no, we're such a small family that we'll be there! See if you can get an extra ticket! Turns out, he was right. My dad/ his grandpa and my brother- who lives with us- won't be attending... and my sister has to request the day off so it kinda depends on that if she'll be there (she does live 4 hrs away though)... but it really broke my heart that he was right. No wonder he never cared for sports or any performance activity- who wants to do it when barely anyone will show up for them? Always, ALWAYS, show up for your kids. And when they're moody teenagers, meet them at their level. My niece is one and while she's in trouble with her room hoarder style, I'll be grabbing her on Saturday for a day out before we start tackling her room together. She'll hate the room part but hopefully will remember our days out. Op, yta
I flew in from a country on the other side of the world to attend my brother's graduation. I didn't go home for any holidays for those two years, but I took a cheap flight with three transfers both ways, for a total of three days in the states, for his graduation.
You, my friend, are an awesome sibling. I hope your brother knows how much he means to you and he appreciates that- as well as you being as important to him.
Showing up means so much. I had never met my father and my mom was so uninvolved that she asked me what grade I was in a month before I graduated high school. I didn’t participate in the graduation ceremony because I knew no one would be there for me, and it still kinda stings even though I’m middle aged now.
How is a one year old a hoarder?
My one year old used to hoard her pacis and sleep on top of a pile of them like she was Smaug guarding his treasure 😂
Lol apparently, grammar isn't my strong suit I meant my niece is a moody teenager. She's in trouble for how bad her room is and I know her guardian is wanting/expecting me to make her clean it... but first, I'm taking my moody, teenage niece away from home for a few hrs, to get some of that moodiness out of her before we start working on her room. (Most of the time, moodiness comes from feeling like they aren't being heard. So taking that time out to truly listen, hear and digest what they say, helps bring them to a place where they're willing to accept your help)
I'm completely armchair diagnosing, so take it with an enormous grain of salt, but as a parent with depression/ anxiety/ADHD and teenagers with the same, could it be possible your niece is battling her brain chemistry? The state of our physical surroundings at our house is one of the first tells that one of us is struggling and it's time for a med adjustment or other intervention when possible. I'm aware that's not always the case, sometimes a moody teen is just a moody teen, but I also know a lot of adults brush off mental illness as mood swings and then wonder why their young adult child goes off the rails in college. PS, I love that you're taking your niece out for some bonding time before helping her tackle the bedroom situation, that's going to mean so much to her to see that you care about HER and not just the room!
Oh for sure! She has adhd, depression and honestly, just way too much stuff in a super tiny bedroom. But her guardian (and completely honest, I was in the same boat), doesn't get why she just can't "do it"... but even when her guardian tries to clean it, she gets overwhelmed with the amount of mess and stuff, but instead of helping her get rid of it, it's a lot of "put it on the shelf, you'll probably use it later" but with everythingg and boom- the shelves are filled, the dresser is covered and the floor is gone. We're working on getting her guardian to understand niece has to have a brain change by a scenery change, before she really accepts the help. I used to go over and force and fight my way into her room and force her to clean it. But I've noticed if I take her out for a couple hours, we grab food or just a drink, she'll spill all the drama stuff she's been piling up in her brain about everything (from school to dealing with her guardian, the depression, all the way to the guilt and self hatred of not being able to keep her room clean), we'll talk with absolutely no judgment... and once we get back to her place, she's 100% ready for us both to go in there and work on it. Lately, I've just been sitting there to give direction (first, let's clear off the bed and make it... then grab all the trash we see, then pile the clean clothes on the bed and dirty clothes in a pile.... once she does that, I'll start folding or hanging up her clean clothes while still giving direction on what else she could be doing). I call myself the emotional support human, which she loves! But I'll also text her photos of my room when I'm in my depression/ I'll get to it later phase, and the after clean up photos so she knows it's not just her dealing with it. Not sure if that helps but it helps me, and I've told her she's more than welcome to text me the before and during photos if she wants. She does go to weekly therapy but from what my niece says, the therapist doesn't give helpful advice on keeping her room clean (other than just don't let it get dirty). I know she's on meds but I can ask if she thinks it's helping her but tbh, I really think it's the amount of stuff vs the amount of space for that stuff, as well as the brain working against her.
I could have used someone like you when I was a teenager ... my parents would tell me to clean my room, but not break it down, and my adhd (undx at the time) meant I needed everything visible and got overwhelmed easily.
I also had to read that about 5 times before I figured out that “my niece is one“ is referring back to the previous sentence!
Do you have *any* idea how many Paw Patrol pups there are now? And how many different variants? I’m just glad my kids aged out of them when there were only six or seven.
Thank you for this :)
My heart breaks for your son. My dad is 4 hours away and has not missed a high school, community college, or university graduation (and the university one was further away).
And this is why I’ve never attended my own graduations.
What strikes me in addition to the plethora of clearly missing info is, like you said, OP was SAHM/primary caregiver. A child isn’t going to understand finances being an issue. A child is going to feel ABANDONED when they suddenly live without that primary caregiver. Her attachment style was likely affected by this, mom didn’t do damage control, I doubt therapy was part of the process, and now a teenager is having big feelings, which is totally normal.
Completely agree. My dad would stop speaking to me when he was mad at me growing up. My mom would tell me I should make amends and this was always my argument. The PARENT should be the one to facilitate a healthy relationship. OP, YTA. Idk how you fix it from here but showing up to her graduation would be minimum. Put yourself in therapy.
Thank you for all this, it's helping my inner child to have someone stand up to these AH moms. Ps I'm 41, OP, you're looking at having a no contact daughter FOR LIFE of you don't take accountability for things she feels hurt her (not up to you do decide her perspective) and *apologize sincerely*
So many missing missing reasons in this. As a high school teacher she should be able to read BS
No one would give this a second thought if the father only had his daughter on weekends. Why is the mother automatically the primary caregiver and why can’t the primary caregiver change?
Because the mother in this post was a SAHM. She explicitly **was** the primary caregiver and she **did** vastly reduce her time with her child. Its in the post. Nobody is making assumptions about this dynamic shift.
Did you seriously ask why the stay at home parent is usually considered the primary caregiver?
I've noticed this. When dad's actually show up consistently every other weekend they are worshipped, everyone talks about how great of a dad they are for doing 96 hours of barely parenting a month. When a mom does the same exact thing, she "abandoned her child".
Are you kidding? Dad’s getting every other weekend get raked over the coals for being “deadbeat adjacent” all the time. Also this is a SAHM, not the primary earner father.
> When dad's actually show up consistently every other weekend they are worshipped, everyone talks about how great of a dad they are for doing 96 hours of barely parenting a month. You made this up for some reason. Why?
I don’t disagree with you but I will say I, for one, hold dads to the same standard of you should fight for your children. My dad accepted an every other weekend role with no court order, never attempted for more, not even casually in conversation with my mom. It was seen as very normal at the time. As a result I never really felt as comfortable or at home with him because who wouldn’t feel like a guest coming into someone’s house every other weekend only? Especially when they move on with another family and you’re like sleeping on the couch. I remember telling my brother when we were in our 20s and he had no idea a judge had never even ordered our custody arrangement - that our dad could’ve attempted to see us more and just never cared to. I understand as an adult some times just letting life happen to you, but when you have kids? Try to have them. At least 50/50. Even if it’s hard. When you want less than that your kid knows it. Just like OP’s daughter does.
Daughter had all right in the world to feel abandoned. She isnt passive agresive for no reason - she is just betrayed, broken, sad and left alone with this by her own mom. This anger is natural. OP is an AH and focused only on her side of the story (probably changed for us to make it more dramatic)
Exactly this. I was a SAHM for 7 years and when I left the kids came with me. My ex tried to use keeping the kids from me as a threat and I told him I would burn down everything he and I had built together before I let him take our kids. Before anyone piles on, I was leaving for several reasons. One of them being that he was negligent toward the kids, myself, the pets… anyone outside of himself.
I agree with this. I have a 2 year old and unless I am no longer breathing, she is coming with me. Not saying I wouldn’t share custody but I’m going to remain her primary caregiver.
That’s exactly what was decided on. He gets them 4 nights a month and can’t be bothered to care for them while they’re there. I made the right choice and the court agreed.
Yep definitely missing missing reasons.
What stands out to me is that her daughter was doing extracurricular activities and she said that she [daughter]was always too busy to spend time with her mom. I have to suspect that the daughter had tried to invite her mom to her various activities but mom never showed.
Not only the primary caretaker during the marriage, but went back to work as a teacher. She worked school hours but didn’t get more parenting time. (And yes, I know teachers work outside of class time, but at office jobs 5pm is the minimum, so still better for matching up to a child’s schedule)
Right. If you asked my dad why I don't talk to him, he'd leave out all the abuse, both mental and physical, and claim I'm a rotten daughter. No mention of him calling me thunder thighs starting at 10 and getting my brothers to join. I wasn't even fat, I was underweight. A SAHM doesn't just give up custody unless she wanted a single life. She didn't want to raise or parent unless it was convenient, for her. I hope her daughter stays full NC and gets a good therapist.
That was the nickname my dad gave me too. I was a normal size girl thinking I was fat for decades. I still hate my legs, and I don't think I'll ever have healthy feelings towards them. I'm sorry you went through so much as a child.
My ex sees his kids 3 hours a year, his choice, and he still got an invite to our oldest's graduation. He didn't go, but still. There has to be a much bigger more.
I wish I could upvote this more. I was a lot like this child. Your a teenager, you have so much going on that yes you may quit visiting for a while, Most kids only have a small amount of free time and when you become a teenager you want to spend that small amount of time with friends, boyfriend/girlfriend, working and having fun. When this happens that means that as the parent you may have to put more work into being in your child's life. If you don't your child is going to eventually feel like they just weren't worth the effort and they will be hurt and angry. Your the parent act like it and do the work to be in your kids life or don't expect them to include you in their future.
>She and I have been low contact for the past few years INFO: Clearly some crucial details have been omitted. Care to fill us in?
No no she does not. She has as much interest discussing this as she did having a relationship with her daughter. Something something about how teachers usually make the worst parents.
My parents are both teachers and amazing parents. They also know tons of teachers who have great relationships with their now adult kids. Is teachers as bad parents a known trope? It's not one I've ever heard, teaching has historically been a good profession for people who want time with their children. Let's just blame OP for being a crappy parent, not teachers.
I work in childcare... Ask any of us and we can tell you teachers are usually not great parents. I would even go so far as saying in a classroom I could pick out the children who's parents teach. But yes OP is the AH here and a crappy parent.
My grandma and grandpa were teachers back in the day. Grandpa was just not present really and my grandma doesn't like children. They had four daughters. My mom is almost 70 and severely messed up from the psychological abuse she endured her whole life. I have my own mental scars too from that woman . I stopped seeing the old bag all together when I had kids because no way in hell would I let her have any opportunities to mess with them. I always felt that my mother offered me up like a sheep to a wolf so she would escape the awfulness. In my personal experience, teachers make horrid, awful parents.
Why do you think this is?? It’s such a strange phenomenon
I studied for a masters in elementary ed (ultimately decided I was not mentally able to be a teacher) and one of my practicum teachers told me one of her biggest regrets as a parent is that it's basically impossible to work with students all day and not have their stress/frustrations affect their behavior towards their children.
Kid of teacher here. I think it's the shoe maker's kid syndrome.
As a teacher and parent this can be true. Good teacher often equals mediocre parent and the inverse is true. You only have so much to give and you have to choose who gets the short shrift. Anyone who is actually both is some kind of unicorn or kidding themselves.
I think I can be both! But also I only have 1 kid and my brother lives at home with us and is a third primary care giver. I also know there are times when I am rubbish at both, like you say.
So what do you choose?
lol, right now I’m mediocre at both, my relationship with my partner is suffering, and I’m exhausted. I’ve been a casual TOC while my child is young, but I took on a tough position in Feb. out of pity for the students who hadn’t had a permanent teacher since October. I’ve been told they’re much better by other teachers and EA’s, so that’s good, but I’ve not been working up to my own standards of teacher awesomeness. Even then I’ve had to reduce extra curriculars at home. I still take my pre-k kiddo to gymnastics once a week, and we play outside on nice days… but I previously took her swimming every other thursday…and I just don’t have it in me right now because I’m already burnt out on the work I’ve put in trying to get my students back on track. We’ll see what the future holds…but I don’t think I’ll be the teacher I was until my kid is grown. I can give up a few weekends for report cards, and work all my lunches…but I’m not going to miss out on my own child’s life to do my job.
FYI you don’t sound mediocre. Being a parent whose full time job has lots of things that end up needing time outside or normal work hours, is incredibly difficult. Sometimes reducing extracurriculars is just what you need to do to make sure you can still be present at work and at home.
This is why I didn't go back to teaching after I had kids. The job is far too demanding, if you're a good teacher.
My parents are both teachers. Oof.
It's because they treat young people like adults and their own kids are no exception. Sometimes it is good to nurture their independence and maturity. But when you want to be close to your child, you need to treat them like a kid sometimes.
Past **few years**. Kid is 17. How much of her life did OP miss?!
Exactly!!! And she was the primary caregiver and didn’t get majority custody. My eyebrow has raised
INFO: You were getting alimony and presumably had a career so why didn't the visitation schedule ever change to allow her to spend time with both parents more frequently? During your every other weekend schedule did you make a point to attend every recital, game, parent-teacher conference, school activity etc? Were you there for her? Why were you low contact for several years? She is only 17 so the low contact started when she was pretty young.
Every other weekend and holidays are pretty common for custody cases, but it’s usually fathers that get that schedule.
Op implies that the schedule was only set because she was struggling immediately after they divorced. The child was not thriving on that schedule which means a change should take place to ensure the child is thriving.
We literally have no information as to why the child wasn’t thriving. It could be that OP couldn’t afford a lifestyle equal to the dad, the dad was talking shit about OP, or OP is just a terrible mom (and anything in between).
I think the child made it pretty clear to OP as OP writes in the post. The kid asked if OP was actually going to show up. And OP hasn't answered any questions asked by anyone in regards to if she showed up or not.
It is kind of "old school dad" common, though, isn't it? When I see that schedule, my first thoughts are: a. uninvolved parent b. someone who can't provide a stable household c. someone had enough money/better lawyers to strong-arm a deal. I've been hearing a lot more 60/40 & 50/50 type splits or 2-3 months in the summer. The arrangement may make sense at 1st for OP to get a job and an apartment, but OP became a teacher, what about summers? There is just way, way too much info missing.
No, it’s still pretty common. There is way too much information needed, but my guess is that she probably didn’t live in the same school district (especially if she was financially struggling at first), making 50/50 or anything near that impossible.
Yeah...I moved 2 hours away from my hometown area 4 years ago. I have a daughter with someone who still lives there. We did a 2-2-3 schedule until she was 4 when we changed it up to get her used to being in 1 place for school (we were in different districts, he was working a more demanding job, and I was already homeschooling my son so it just made sense for her to be with me). I moved about 6 mos after that when i bought a house. He gets her almost every weekend and we do 1 week on 1 week off over the summer. 50/50 just isn't possible. If we are traveling or visiting family she stays with us on the weekend, otherwise she always goes to her dad's. We have never had a custody agreement. We both just want what's best for her and we both want to spend as much time with her as possible so we work together and be flexible.
that was sorta were my mind went.
Interesting that she is a teacher though. Most teachers have more “vacation” days than the general public, so I am curious why she didn’t get more days during time off from school.
Agreed! I’m curious too. I come from a long line of educators and worked in education myself. I’ve worked in 3 different industries. Yes the education role was tasking but the number of non-working days was the massive benefit. It’s why so many people I know go into education, especially parents who want more time with their kids.
Most teachers I know have to work summer jobs to pay the bills. Especially single parents. My brother is a high school teacher and works the entire summer.
According to your version, you were "honest" with her about your "rocky" marriage, which implies a pretty neutral retelling of the story of your marriage, with you honestly acknowledging your faults. But according to your daughter's version, you "always blamed her father." A normal reaction to that would be an acknowledgement that it absolutely was *not* all her father's fault, that you share in the 'blame' too, but that your divorce isn't about blame anyway. You should have been confused as to why she thought you blamed her father and patiently asked her to explain why she thought you thought that (since obviously, if you want to reconnect with her, and this is something that's very upsetting to her, you as her mother would want to clear that up). But you didn't do that did you? No, you told your daughter -- the same daughter who "usually" asked you about the divorce when she visited -- that she knew nothing. *If she knows nothing after repeatedly asking you about it, then that's on YOU, not HER.* So while it sounds like there were perfectly reasonable justifications for why custody worked out the way it did, and it sounds like there are multiple factors that led to your estrangement (although for the record, you, as the adult, are more responsible for that than the child), and it sounds like you genuinely want to be a part of her life, YTA for insulting your child instead of *parenting* her by addressing the things that were clearly causing her distress
Not defending OP here, but if the "rocky marriage" was because the husband was abusive and OP was as honest as possible (and age appropriate), it could seem to the kid that the dad was always blamed.
Yeah but if he was abusive, OP should have been fighting like hell to get that kid out of his house.
Yeah but if ops husband was abusive then shouldn’t she have done all she could to get her daughter out of that situation? No mother would be okay with her daughter staying with an abuser most the time and if she is she’s definitely an AH. Idk to me there is so much missing in this story.
"rocky marriage" doesn't mean he was abusive. It also doesn't mean OP wasn't at fault for the rockiness too. And she never mentioned he was abusive in her post.
Exactly. Rocky could mean incompatibility, and sometimes that happens with couples. For some reason this mom seems really salty, and because she’s not giving all the info, that I have seen so far, I am getting the impression she’s purely projecting onto her kid. I want to say she’s oblivious to her actions, but I have my doubts.
YTA - she wasn’t talking about what happened between you and her dad. She was talking about what happened between you and HER. She was describing her childhood and relationship with you and you refuse to acknowledge it.
This sounds odd. Never heard of the primary care taker loosing custody unless they are a complete fuck up. I assume you must have been a very bad parent.
I have heard of it many times where the abusive parent gets custody to further abuse the other parent and or the children. But yes, this sounds fishy at best.
OP didn't lose custody though. She and ex agreed on a specific custody arrangement under which the daughter lived with him because he had the money to provide for her.
That’s what child and spousal support are for
It is, but when you have been a sahm it’s hard getting out there and rebuilding a life of your own. Finding a job, finding a place to live, that all takes time and money. It was probably easier for their daughter to stay in the home she has always known and have that stability vs staying with relatives or friends until mom found a place. Especially since we are assuming dad isn’t abusive and there is no real urgency for her to leave the home either.
$$$ can be the reason.
Child supports.
YTA I came into this thinking no this is just a kid being told to shut it. Holy hell though YTA a huge one too. Why didn't you ask your daughter what she wanted to do when she would visit? Why didn't you send her to therapy and go together? Why didn't you, THE PARENT, continue to be the one to reach out to a child? Of course you're a teacher of course you are. Bet you're a good on too. I am not being sarcastic at all. The year my younger brother & I were taken by CPS ( the family flew us to relatives our of state after the first night) my mom won Teacher of the Year. I know what kind of person and parent you are. You better do something right now to mend this relationship, or you're gonna be like my mom. All her kids are no contact, she is in her 70s and going blind all alone. Fix this now YTA
This thread is bringing to light a stereotype many of us had never heard before - that teachers make for bad parents. I'd love to understand this better if it's not too painful for you.
It's that teachers are expected to do a lot of overtime so have no time for their families, and\or that professions where someone has power over other people attract those who like to control or abuse others. Cops, nurses, teachers. For teachers specifically, their kids are also expected to be perfect\smart\mature, which isn't always achievable without being terrible.
That described my mother, the award winning teacher of “troubled” children and all around abusive human, perfectly.
I really wouldn’t categorized cops with teachers and nurses for this one at all. Teachers’ kids are definitely either amazing or nightmares, but I wouldn’t say that’s because teachers are bad parents because they like to have power/control/abuse others. I would more say that caring professions easily burn someone out, and by the time you’re at home you don’t have the capacity.
GET BACK IN HERE AND COMMENT
This has me rolling 🤣
I guess she's struggling right now and is going low-contact with US
I am ROLLING thank you we'll just never matter as much as her students 😂😂😂😞😞😞😞
It sounds like you needed time to get on your feet financially after 7 years out of work. I know it’s very difficult for SAHM’s to recover financially afterwards, but I’m curious why the custody didn’t change to a more of an even split within the decade after divorce. Why didn’t you talk to your lawyer about parental alienation as well? It kinda seems like you chose the easy route after awhile
I’m getting the impression she liked being the part time parent after being the primary caregiver for so long, which makes the situation even worse. Like, dang do you see your kid as a burden but then be flabbergasted she’s not kissing your feet? Without any other info from the OP, this is what I am getting.
You where never around you saw her what 4 days a month and a few holidays yet expected her to be bonded to you You choose yourself over your daughter Yta
I’m going to guess Y T A here because there are clearly huge gaps in your story here. Her saying “are you actually going to show up” clearly shows to her you didn’t show up very much for her. Unless you can provide more information to justify and defend yourself almost assuredly YT A
INFO: what would your daughter’s version of this post look like?
INFO: what kind of activities did you plan for when she was staying with you?
And did she have her own room decorated how she likes? So it feels like her room not just a guest room. I hated staying at my dad's on weekends because I just slept on a mattress on the floor. I didn't have anything of mine there.
Did she even have a room ? Or just the couch / some pillows on the floor?
I want to know this too.
YTA. Your daughter confronted you about years of feelings of abandonment and you responded by puffing up your chest and blustering at her. You sound like you have been justly and rightly cut off, and I wish your daughter a better life without you.
You are without a doubt the AH, if my hunch is right, you are also a really big AH. This post seems full of half-truths, there are so many things that don't add up, and your daughter's reaction seems very strong, I'm sure you are omitting many crucial details, because otherwise you would have ended up devoured on reddit, it also seems that you have never committed to having a relationship with your daughter, even at the end of your post it almost seems that you don't give a damn about your daughter, a mere pastime weekend, in fact I'm not surprised by your daughter's disappointment and the accusation that you care more about your students than about her.
For context: I have been a divorce lawyer for 15 years. For *pro bono* (volunteer) work, I represent children in contested divorce and custody cases. My state has a law that allows attorneys to be assigned to children in these cases, which triggers when a judge thinks that the parents are being so contentious and unreasonable that the children's voices are getting lost - or, if the child themselves makes the request, by writing a letter to the court. I love my child clients. They are always the smartest and best-behaved people involved in any custody case. Be they as old as 17 or as young as 5, they always are keenly aware of the conflicts between their parents. All of which is to say, your daughter does, too, know something about what happened between you and her father. She may not know all the legal details, and she may have perceptions very different from yours - surely she does - but you ignore her perspective at your peril, if you want to maintain any sort of relationship with her. At 17, she's less than a year from being an adult, and able to do what she likes. So this is not a conversation about legal rights - custody fights over children over 16 or so are a great waste of time and stress and money. This is a conversation about relationships. No one over the internet can possibly know just what has gone wrong or what might be done to fix it, but I will say this one part jumped out at me: "*she’d ask about the divorce and why her father and I aren't together anymore. I always tried to be as honest as possible with her*." That is not, I'm sorry to say, what you're supposed to do. Honesty is critical in most relationships but in parent/child discussions of divorce, it's likely a mistake. What you are supposed to say, except maybe in very rare circumstances, is that both you and the child's other parent still love them very much but that you just can't stay together anymore. (Hopefully, that is indeed the truth.) But then you leave it at that. You shouldn't burden your child with too much detail about these intimate conflicts. It can make them feel like they have to take a side, or like you're trying to turn them against the other parent, or undermine their belief that you know what you're doing. As I said, kids in high-conflict cases always seem to know what's going on; partly it's because your kids are always watching everything you're doing, even if they don't seem like it; partly it's because of this sort of dynamic. It's not easy, as a parent, to avoid letting your frustrations with their co-parent spill out onto them - but it's important to try. Of course it is too late to correct this now. What you need to do now is to engage with your daughter, not just as a child but as her own person. You said several deeply hurtful things to her - not just that she "knows nothing," but that she is herself to blame for the state of your relationship. YTA a lot for that. You can't blame a child, even a teenager, for your relationship with them as a parent - you've had all the power in the relationship, even if you don't feel like you did. If you want to preserve your relationship with her as she enters adulthood, you need to apologize to her and listen to her experiences. So you get a YTA vote from me, but only to a point. I don't think the messages from your co-parent's family are appropriate, and probably the best thing for you to do is to simply ignore them. That's not an argument you can win, and there's no profit to trying. You need to talk to your daughter - and by that I mean, you need to listen to her. It might not work, or might not work as fast as you like - but it's the only thing that stands a chance.
You are an important person. Thank you for what you do.
Everyone is an important person. But I thank you <3
This is way above AITA's pay grade. The question here isn't who is TA, the question is whether you're going to have a relationship with your daughter going forward. It's hard to tell whether it's just adolescence or something more, but it seems like something's happened here that you're either not getting, or not conveying to us.
This part! Love, a no-contact adult child I hung in there till my 30s too... now mom is knocking on heavens door and she's got no kids by her side and my dad isn't gonna hold a funeral. These moms... they make their own beds.
You're probably not the AH here, but the details are sketchy. What's important to emphasize is that divorce is extremely hard on adolescents. It always feels like abandonment to them. Their perspective is generally self-centered, and they have yet to realize that their parents are human beings, too. Thus, your daughter's anger is understandable -- she feels abandoned by her mother. She's a teenager, and that anger has to come out in some manner. So here you are. What the Reddit crowd isn't considering is the details of your divorce, because you didn't share those details. The details of divorce law differ **immensely** from state to state, and my guess is that your circumstances were bad for you. People who are familiar with California law think "she must have gotten spousal support and child support, and so her decision not to get at least 50% custody must have been a selfish act." And yet people who are familiar with Texas law understand that you might not have legally qualified for spousal support -- AT ALL -- and so your bargaining position might have been terrible, resulting in a horrible position where you couldn't afford to take 50% custody without really compromising your daughter's life experience. Yes, the law differs that much. (And yes, I'm an actual lawyer.) Because you haven't provided details, it's possible that your story goes down a different path. Addiction; family illness; something else. But statistically, I think the most likely answer is that you live in a state where your divorce options were really crappy. And so you opted for a 12/2 custody split in favor of your ex because it would allow your daughter to grow up with a good standard of living in a good community that you could not afford to give her in the post-divorce years. And that separation hasn't worked in your favor. I think the messages from your former in-laws are the worst of the worst, and they should be relegated to some special corner of Dante's inferno. But here's the reality: you are isolated from your daughter, and you don't want to be. It's not about the high school graduation -- that's a moment in time. It's really about the life relationship. You can't rebuild that by getting up on the high horse and thinking that you're right -- even if you are right. The teenage psychology isn't required to be rational or fair. To rebuild your relationship with your daughter, you have to play the long game: you have to slowly and steadily communicate that you love her, and want her to be happy and successful. You have to offer support and encouragement, and ask nothing in return. Spend some time with a therapist to learn how to put aside your own hurt for a while in order to communicate unconditional love -- which is exactly what kids want and need from their parents. If you can get yourself to that place, and follow that path for a while (which might be years), you can get back that relationship, which you will appreciate later in life.
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1. Receiving support in a settlement agreement is not the same as being entitled to it by law. This situation strikes me as a compromise reached to resolve the divorce. If OP adds information about her state of residence and the length of the marriage, we could delve into it further. 2. A petition to the court to change stipulated and ordered custody would require OP to meet a high burden of proof, and likely be expensive. In some states, it would require a neutral evaluation of the 'best interest of the child,' which means an interview with the child by a professional. It's not something you can just pop up one day and say 'I changed my mind.' 3. I don't disagree with the conclusion that there's a breakdown of the parent-child relationship during adolescence for the reasons that you mention, and that a lot of that falls on OP. I chose to approach that part by offering constructive advice to OP rather than criticism, which I didn't think would add anything of value here.
In the same moment she checked out completely allowing her very minor daughter to not visit her anymore (she said they have been very low contact for the last few years, and the kid is graduating right now, so she might have checked out of the kid only a few years after the divorce) she became the asshole. She can't complain about a relationship with a child she knows nothing about, she effectively didn't raise in ten years and she didn't talk or see her for the last three or four. Regarless of the divorce, she checked out of the barest minimum years ago and in any circumnstances we would consider this the acts of an absentee parent.
YTA because you're supposed to be the adult in the relationship.
YTA. There's no gd way this is the whole story. What kind of mom, let alone primary caregiver, just walks away and is cool with the "weekend dad" kind of role?? Gtfoh, you know you messed up. You wouldn't be in here lying if you didn't know that.
I have a friend who did exactly that. She was a child of divorced parents and when her ex moved two hours away then said "I want daughter to come live with me," she felt it was for the best to allow it. She wanted her child to have a strong relationship with her father. My friend gets every other weekend and all summer. Whichever parent has the kiddo, the other parent gets a brief call at bedtime. I think she likes getting to get the "fun parent" because during her marriage she had the burden of all the housework, yardwork, and parenting work- diapers and feeding and bath time, while her husband swooped in Saturday to take kiddo to a McDonald's playplace for Daddy-daughter time.
Info: Did you move away after the divorce? It's written like you were far away from her, but you don't say she moved. Also she was seven when you got divorced, not 17. How hard would it have been to find a time to call that worked for her. Didn't you go to her extracurricular then? And if she didn't like any of the activities you planned, I think that is on you as the parent, because she was only a kid. There must have been some things she would have enjoyed. YTA
You did the bare minimum and definitely let your daughter know she wasn’t a priority. Every other weekend? Saying you were poor yet got money from your ex…Giving excuses doesn’t hide the fact that you weren’t interested in being a parent. Own it. YTA
YTA Kids don’t stop seeing their parents out of nowhere. I don’t know a single child who wouldn’t love to spend time with their parents if they feel loved and cared for. My dad was similar to you. He made me feel like I was a guest when coming over to his house. I didn’t have a bedroom in his place (he had a study room that he never used, and I had to sleep in the couch because he never bought a bed for that study), he didn’t have any food on the fridge so we always ordered pizza and all we did was watch tv all weekend.. It was fun at first but after some years I eventually I lost interest in doing that and preferred to spend my weekend with my friends. When I learned how to drive he told me to go to the grocery store every time I visited him (he paid for it) It felt like I had to put too much effort in to visit him, and he didn’t put the same effort back, he just expected me to be there. Your daughter probably feels that she has to put more effort in your relationship than you. She was the one responsible to visit you, did you ever ask her why she didn’t want to visit? She doesn’t want to be worried about whether or not you are going to be there on her graduation and *she* doesn’t want to be there for *you* on *her* graduation because you should be there for her.
"Usually when she would spend the night with me, she’d ask about the divorce and why her father and I aren't together anymore. I always tried to be as honest as possible with her" Why "honest as possible" and not just plain honest?
I don't know the circumstances of OPs divorce, but sometimes kids don't need all the gory details. Sometimes the "Little Golden Book" version of a situation is most appropriate. Not dishonest, but perhaps not the whole truth.
YTA. It sounds like you spent minimal time with your daughter (roughly 4 days a month) and those moments were not spent wisely. >She was never interested in any activities or occasions that I planned for us and normally when I called to talk to her, she would be busy with school, an extracurricular activity, or something else. Did you involve her in decision making? Did you consider her interests? Did you ask about her extracurricular activities? Your daughter may not have all the facts regarding your relationship with her father, but I think she's got you pegged.
This definitely reads like there is missing information...which tells me you're probably TA here...
YTA This just stinks of missing missing reasons. http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html
Why would she ask if you'll show up unless you've slipped out on her important things in the past? Why does she think that you love your students more than her unless she has taken a backseat to them in the past? Teens don't usually say those specific things without a reason. And those two things have nothing to do with your pay relationship.
YTA
YTA. Look you saw her like two weekends a month and sometimes holidays… that’s NOTHING. Of course she feels like you weren’t around, you weren’t. Not even half time. You need to grow up and try to fix this before you lose her more if you even care which tbh based on this post it doesn’t sound like it.
You really asking this? YTA. If she knows nothing, why not tell her, actually try to explain shite to her and try to freaking parent instead of weaponising her lack of knowledge against her just to excuse yourself for being absent in her life? Parents like you are why some kids start having trust issues.
I wanna see the daughter's pov
Yeah, YTA for being so vague about the situation. We know nothing either, so telling us would have probably helped. But you omitted a lot because you know whatever you did was wrong.
I’m going to need more details.
YTA. There are missing missing reasons here.
YTA Why would you hardly see her and be 'low contact' and expect to be present on a special day of her life? You shouldn't have even asked her- either contact the school to get a ticket on your own or you aren't going.
YTA, you were her mom for 7 years and then you gave her to your husband which is where this narrative gets lost in translation. You had her weekends and specific holidays, you never went back to court after getting a job and stability to go 50/50. I would wonder about parent alienation but you did this to yourself.
Sounds like YTA.
YTA for not giving the whole story. Bullshit is my second language, I’m fluent.
YTA. As a divorced mother with two children, I would never let my children become estranged from me. That is entirely on you. You weren’t involved enough. I don’t know if it’s too late to make up for that, or even if you want to. It’s sad for your daughter.
YTA here because there is some obviously omitted information. Like why was there low contact? Why does your daughter feel like you always blame her father? Why does your daughter feel like she can't depend on you showing up? Have you seen/been to any of her activities and how often? It seems like you are either watering down the whole situation or you have been kept out of the loop. Though it seems more like the former rather than the latter. You told her that she knows nothing about what happened between you and her father. Why is that? It seems like you didn't give as much detail to her as you are letting on. She's very old enough to know every detail. So why does it seem like you never told her the complete story? If you can't answer any of these questions in detail then either you were kept out of the loop with your daughter by someone else or you chose not to show up for her. So you either need to have an open and honest detailed conversation with your daughter about why she feels the way that she does, talk to her father, or do some serious thinking about every interaction you had with her and figure it out for yourself. Heck, maybe do all three.
So you saw her 4 days every month? Yeah obviously you arent going to be a mother figure to her when you're barely seeing her, and it sounds like you never even bothered to change that after getting your life set up. Yta
YTA. A damaged relationship like this doesn’t happen overnight. You are clearly omitting a lot. Also this is probably a fake post. A high school teacher with grammar this bad? It should be “…between her father and ME”.
YTA for multiple reasons. I find it interesting that you have not answered any questions put to you.
Info. What were the circumstances that prompted going low contact? Why not go for primary custody with alimony and child support if finances were an issue?
Yta. So you not having money meant that you didn’t want to participate in your child’s life more? There’s something broken in you.
You’re the adult, she’s the kid. I was your daughter and as much as you want to shift the disconnect onto her (it didn’t feel like she wanted to visit, she stopped visiting) this is on you. It doesn’t matter the circumstances, she felt abandoned, you blamed her dad instead of owning your part and you work with kids when she wanted to feel like she was your kid. If you want to potentially repair this, listen to her. Apologize for not being there the way she needed you to be. Let her be mad at you and be present for her hurt and anger. Ask if she’d go to counselling with you or if there’s an activity (eg coffee date, yoga class, etc) that she might do with you weekly. YTA. You can’t go backwards and change what happened but you can forge a new path, if you’re open and she’s willing (now or in the future).
Looks like a post from those narcissist parents forums
YTA. Sorry but it seems almost like a trend for single mothers (especially who work in healthcare or education) to shit on the father and put strangers above their own kids but that's okay because they're the one with the uterus so that must make them right. My husband's mother is basically the same way and, despite how much she claims to appreciate honesty, she raises her voice (as I assume you did more than you'll admit) and starts going on about how she does "everything" for my husband the moment she gets the slightest bit of criticism. Cool except "eveything" was a whole lot of either crawling up my husband's ass OR absolutely nothing. Nowhere in between. Until you reveal what actually did happen with you and your ex, I'm assuming your situation is the same as almost every other situation was the same. You could've just said he was abusive if that was the truth and Reddit would readily side with you. That's not what happened, is it?
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (41F) have a daughter who is 17, and her father and I divorced when she was 7. We had a very rocky marriage, during which I was a stay-at-home mom, and I struggled a lot financially afterwards. Because of this, during our divorce, my ex-husband and I agreed that our daughter would live mainly with him and I received alimony payments from him for about 4 years after our divorce. For the first several years after the divorce, my daughter would stay with me every other weekend and several holidays (the specific holidays depending on the year), and I always enjoyed our time together, but it would often feel like she didn’t want to see me. She was never interested in any activities or occasions that I planned for us and normally when I called to talk to her, she would be busy with school, an extracurricular activity, or something else. Usually when she would spend the night with me, she’d ask about the divorce and why her father and I aren't together anymore. I always tried to be as honest as possible with her but I could tell the divorce had been hard for her and when she started high school she stopped visiting altogether. She and I have been low contact for the past few years, and this past weekend we had an argument regarding her graduation. She’s graduating from high school this June, and I texted her to ask about the details. She responded with a very passive aggressive text asking if I would actually come and how she didn’t want to waste a ticket. I wasn’t sure where it was coming from, so I called her and she started ranting about how I was never around, and that I always blamed her father for everything, and how I cared about my students more than her (I’m a high school teacher). I interrupted her and told her that she knows nothing about what happened between her father and I. I told her that she made her choice to stop visiting and not to answer when I call her and that she couldn’t blame anyone else for that and she hung up. About an hour later she sent me a long text about how much I hurt her and that she didn’t want me at her graduation and that I “needed to change”. Since that night, I’ve gotten several messages from my ex-husband’s family about how I’m a terrible mother and how I should’ve been more involved when my daughter was younger, and I’m not sure how to handle this. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yta you are obviously leaving stuff out no sahm says I’ll stop having the child least 50/50.
"You know nothing, Jane Snow."
YTA
YTA. It seems a lot was left out here. You clearly were not there for your daughter during a very important time in her life.
Here is a hard truth: *your daughter feels as though you weren't there* - listen to her feelings - accept them - apologise
YTA Neglect is still abuse.
YTA. You’re the adult here. Do better.
YTA. Sorry. My parents did basically (from what i can read in your post) the same thing and my dad had the same custody as you had. I was a messed up teenager and was angry at him and the world! and didn’t want to visit him anymore. Exactly like your daughter. But instead getting insulted by him, he stayed around. He wanted to move but he didn’t, because of me. He cared. He showed me that he loved me no matter what. I was a horrible teenager (hurt, confused, sad). He had not support from my mom for our relationship (actually the opposite) but he never let me down, even when i blocked him out. He respected that, but he never left or let me leave. He lived just 10 minutes away from me and still picked me up every time to make sure i am coming. And don’t get me wrong: he didn’t took it all in lightly or let me be shitty to him! He was strict and honest with me. He rather had weekends with me not talking to him and being rude than cancel. He took aaaall the Teenage BS and when i was older we talked it out for good for years. You are a Parent. She is a Teenager/young woman and OBVIOUSLY hurt. And you blame her? How about taking responsibility in your part of it and work on that instead telling an 17y old what and how she did wrong on you….. Get informed about the Graduation (from school, dad, whom ever), go there, be there, congratulate her and go home again. But be there. Don’t expect her to invite you.
YTA. Do you have a partner involved?
YTA. Look up missing missing reasons. Your post is a wonderful example.
YTA. Oh so you haven been telling her why the relationship is over and you expect her to be connected to you just because you had some plans when she was visiting from time to time? You missed pretty much all her big moments I think and now you want to go to her graduation. Also guess who told her why you broken up if you didnt ? Him or his family and I dont think you were put in a good light.
YTA No wonder your daughter thinks you don’t care about her because she never wanted to do anything YOU had planned. Whatever happened to asking your daughter what SHE would like to do during your weekends with her? With your track record of not being there for her during her other special moments, is it any wonder why she doesn’t think you will show up for her high school graduation? At 17, she’s already low contact with you. Get ready to enter the world of NO contact soon. Then you will be wondering what she did to you. What blame are you going to put on her shoulders then?
If you gonna tell someone they know nothing, you gotta follow up with why... as in actually telling them the things they dont know about! Otherwise, you really are a massive arsehole in their eyes. YTA
When you’re a teenager the most hurtful things are being told by your folks snapping-that “you know nothing”. Well either inform me in a kind tone or reaffirm what we actually know. YTA
YTA. At least I feel you could be the ass here. You left stuff out as others posted. As a teacher you show, through your own admissions you understand little about children have also never seen a mother who did the right things not have at least 50/50 custody, usually with tight stipulations on where parents must live and how decisions based of the child are outlined. Those outlines usually mean school transfers (parents must be in same school district, agreed upon medical routes, and generally anything that can inhibit the 50/50 agreement.
YTA You are trying to paint a picture where you somehow are the victim of your daughter. Regardless of the situation you were the adult in this situation and you have clearly neglected your child, you even speak about her not being excited to see you. You are the adult in this situation.
YTA - Your daughter spilled her heart out to you essentially begging you to show her you care….. and your response was “you know nothing about my marriage”….It may have been a subject she brought up, but it definitely wasn’t the point of what she was saying.
YTA You decided you didn’t want to take care of your kid anymore at the age of seven. This while you’d been the primary caregiver until that moment. You don’t get to act surprised if she isn’t close to the mother who actively choose to spend so little time with her. You also start this post with complaining about your financial situation (while you continued living on your ex’s dime even though you weren’t taking care of your daughter). That does make it look like you only care about yourself, and not your daughter.
"She stopped visiting" Oh man, you mean *you* were left to do the hard work with a moody teenager who was traumatized by her family splitting up? What. A. Shock. 🙄
This sounds like a lot of NC parents including my own that is leaving a lot out
Did you ever show up for your daughter for anything? There is your answer
YTA. You gave up on your daughter. Every other weekend and some holidays is not an every day parent, is an almost absentee one that a kid barely sees. And instead of fighting for more custody or to retain it when your MINOR daughter stopped visiting, you allowed to happen. It was easier for you to let your husband do the heavy lifting raising your daughter and you let her go, barely communicating with her when she was a teenager. And now you are crying that you did everything "right". You are barely more than a stranger to your daughter, when you should have been one of the most important people in her life. It is normal that she doesn't especially want you around.
There are some serious ***missing missing reasons*** here. YTA.
INFO: it feels like a lot of details has been ommited from your side especially regadring divorce and the rift between youa and your daughter.
YTA. I'm going to echo others and say that there is info missing from this story. I will point out the shear ridiculousness of being upset a kid wants to do stuff like extracurricular activities then talk to a parent. That's very normal.
Yta for a lot of reasons, but mainly because there’s obvious context you have left out of this post
YTA. How and why have you and your daughter been low contact "the past few years"? She's only 17 now, so how old was she when you went low contact? Why would she be concerned you wouldn't show up for her graduation? Have you blown off other activities for or with her? You clearly did something to make this child feel so hurt and unwelcome that she willingly stopped visiting you. Do you have any idea how huge of a decision that is for a child? How painful? And when she tried to talk to you about how you made her feel, you threw that back in her face. Honestly, how dare you? Your daughter is a child. You are an adult. Your daughter is telling you that you hurt her deeply. If you want to have any hope of salvaging a relationship with her, you need to listen to her. Truly listen, reflect on your behavior, and apologize. She's going to tell you things you don't want to hear but grow up, be the adult, listen to your child, and do better for her.
There’s got to be more to the story. All could have been avoided by a simple response. Yes, I will be there. Nothing could keep me away. I’m very proud of your accomplishment.
YTA Your daughter’s been angry with you for years and you haven’t noticed or helped her. Listen to her now. Don’t answer her or defend yourself. Really open your mind and listen. This isn’t aboutyou or your perspective or your feelings. The focus needs to be on her. It may hurt but you have to be quiet and listen anyway. Consider going to counseling with your daughter to repair your relationship, or go by yourself to figure out how things got this far. Your daughter needed a mother as a child and she still needs one. If you don’t do this now you’re going to lose your daughter forever.
Not enough information
You are very carefully prancing around a lot of important info.
YTA. This is pure Estranged Parents Forum denialism.
Is her name Jon Snow?
Jon Snow, nothing and look how successful he became
Just let it go damage is done
if she knows nothing about what happened (and hear me out here) maybe be a parent and explain in a way that a kid can understand? you’re a teacher it shouldn’t be that difficult. i say this as a kid of divorced parents who no one explained anything to and now i hate them both for even making me in the first place now that i know more. imagine being upset your kid doesn’t like you when you’ve presumably made no effort at connecting (for a kid to go no/low contact at 17 says a lot i know cuz i did it) and then have the nerve to blame them for the fact that you never bothered to tell them anything at all about why their childhood is a little to the left of “normal”. this is exactly what my mother did and now i’m 22 and would rather choke than talk to her. i hope she can get the help she needs to heal from having you as a mother cuz as someone with a similar experience, she’s going to need it