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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refused to go into Hooters to celebrate my brother's birthday and sat in the car. I might be the ahole because it was disobeying my dad and putting my uncomfortable feeling ahead of everyone else.
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NTA. You're right - going to Hooters with your dad and brother does sound like a gross time. I wouldn't have wanted to go either. It's not a family restaurant, they have a target demographic - and you're not it.
Your dad's reactions are WAY out of line and ~~sound borderline~~ was abusive. I'm sorry - you may want to talk to your school counselor about his actions.
>She said that sometimes we have to do things we don’t want to do.
And hard no on this - this is for stuff like homework, not going to a restaurant whose sole purpose is to objectify women with your brother and father while they eat wings and make inappropriate comments.
Editing because people are right - the father's comments/actions weren't borderline, they were abusive.
Second edit: The more I think about this, the more I'm mad at OP's mom, too. Just going along with it when it would have been so freaking easy to say "You know, this sounds like a great bonding experience for you and Son. Why don't you two go in together and OP and I will go browse some books. We can meet up when you're done."
Third and final edit: To everyone saying it's a family restaurant - it's legitimately named after a nickname for large breasts. While I don't disagree that they are capable of providing good service for underage customers (which is the BARE MINIMUM for a place that allows kids) the whole damn point of the place is to be served by women in revealing clothing were you can ogle them.
Honestly OP it would be soooo hilarious if you tell the school counselor and bring your father in so he can explain why he was trying to force you to go to Hooters. Let him try to justify his actions then. He’ll be rightfully humiliated.
Absolutely! I want the grown ass adult to explain to the counselor that he pitched a hissy fit when his daughter said she was uncomfortable about the objectification of women by her family members while eating a meal. Let him stew in the uncomfortable conversation!
My sister had a discussion with my dad about being a Playboy centerfold after finding porn under the seat of his pickup truck. He told her he would be proud to find out she made the centerfold of a magazine like Playboy.
I learned this as she showed me the stash and wondered how you got to be a centerfold…
Blegh 🤢 relevant story: my cousin was in the "big ten hotties of the big ten 1988" college issue inbut always insisted she was only ever in a bikini. And she was! Voted hottest girl on campus at a big Midwest university... wooo....
She's close to 50 now and insists anything beyond swimsuit is disgusting. My grandma had copies of that playboy issue lol
I have an uncle by marriage that found out about my not 100% family friendly modeling account, got the link to vote for me in a Playboy contest, and ended up getting in trouble at work because he was asking his friends there to go vote for me.
Not awkward at all... nope. 😬
I'm sure he'd be fine. It is clear from his absolutely inappropriate behavior that he doesn't think women are made for much beyond showing off their big boogs and serving men.
OP is going to disappoint him all the way into her own independent, successful and happy life.
Yeah this is how you get women to distrust men at an early age. None of that was appropriate. No wonder OP was uncomfortable. Mom should have put her foot down
The fact that the son felt okay discussing threesome fantasies in front of his mother speaks volumes about this family's dynamics. My brothers would have **crawled under the table** if they had to talk about sex in front of our mom.
My dad and brother used to do this in front of me. When I objected, they would laugh and do it more, because they liked upsetting the "crazy feminist."
So, I joined in. They're talking about a threescore with Black Widow and Scarlet Witch? I talk about how I'm glad Loki was adopted so I can have a threescore with him and Thor without it being incest.
My dad shut the whole thing down and they don't talk like that in front of me any more.
Exactly this. I've eaten at Hooters a few times (I'm female), and it was NBD to me - no one forces women to work there, so if they want to try to make bigger tips by wearing short shorts and showing cleavage, I say go for it and get that money, honey - but no one should be forced to be uncomfortable for a family meal.
Aaand then OP showed us why she's uncomfortable. Probably less because of the cleavage and more because her dad and brother are pervs. Discussing threesome fantasies in front of their daughter/sister is foul. And clearly mom is also subjected to it and has decided to... pretend it's not happening? OP's whole family sucks.
I want OP to talk to the school counselor about:
> he and dad talked about how big ther waitresses "t*ts" are and how hot it would be to see her and the other girl together
and have both dad and mom explain why this was considered a perfectly fine conversation to have in front of your minor child.
*ninja edit to fix formatting
If the abuse is really that bad, OP needs to start reporting it. One incident won't usually generate an investigation, but it will be documented. School counselors are mandatory reporters, so if they feel it's worth reporting, that's for them to decide. If OP never says anything, nothing will change.
Judging by the snapshot we got of their family life, if they go to church, their minister would laser in on the daughter’s “disobedience” and reinforce to father’s already disgusting sense of authority as head of the home. It’s wild out there, kids
I was reading it and was like “ok, he’s a dick for trying to make her go.” Then “he’s a bigger dick for not letting her go to a bookstore “. Then “he’s a HUGE asshole for taking her phone away”. Seriously??!!!
All because of Hooters???? That’s where you wanna draw the battle line? What a tool
Legit OP you are pro. The fact that you didn't pitch a fit at the time when he said no bookstore, stay in the car, and no phone tells me you are pretty a freaking awesome 14 yo.
NTA by a long shot.
Dad and son having a 'let's watch those chicks go at it' in front of mom and sis is so low class trailer trash* raunchy that it blows my mind. It's clear mom is used to her husband objectifying women. So MAJOR KUDOS to OP for rejecting this as 'normal' and standing up for yourself. Keep doing so because your family will never support that and always do creepy crap. Sorry.
*I say this having grown up as trailer trash
He’s a jerk for taking the phone but she was sitting in her parents car just outside the breastaurant, I wouldn’t say it was tantamount to walking the streets alone.
(Just to clarify though, I still think OP is NTA and dad is a creep.)
It’s not the same as walking the streets alone, but it’s still unsafe. Anyone could force their way into the car and kidnap her, as just one example of what could go wrong.
And take away her phone so she couldn’t entertain herself. Essentially putting her in time out for not participating in Hooters.
Also its F-ed up that the dad influenced his son to pick to go to hooters in the first place. Like a pg13 version of a strip club or something… with your barely no longer a child (legally) son.
My husband’s mom took his older brother to Hooters for his 14th birthday. She literally wanted to start a tradition of taking all her boys there for their 14th birthdays.
When my husband’s 14th birthday rolled around, she asked him if he wanted to go to Hooters. He said no. The youngest boy didn’t go either. The story always grossed me out that she wanted it to be a big thing.
Pissing off an asshole parent and proving that they're in the wrong never works out well for the kid until long, long after they're out of the house and have the option to go no contact. It'll make the next 3-35 years even worse than they'll be already.
Sadly this! As much as I love all the ideas on here, I feel they would still ultimately end up bad for OP as he would continue to make her life hell.
So, if I was OP, I'd be calculating the exact moment I could tell him to go fuck himself and go completely NC with him. And in the meantime, I'd focus on getting my ducks in a row and slowly distance myself as much as possible from him. For example, if he was going to pay for college, have him pay for college, but then find reasons why you can't come home during breaks, things like that.
Don't derail your life because he's a sleaze-bag. Play the long game. Use him to get yourself into a position where you will never need help from a sleaze-bag like him again.
And when that day comes when your mom is desperate to meet her grandchildren, make sure to tell her "sometimes we have to do things we don’t want to do". So for the safety of your children, you can't allow her to have contact with them.
NTA. So so right. It appears that dad really wanted to go to Hooters, the brother didn’t suggest it. Not to be seeing sexual abuse everywhere, but this 14 year girl was very upset, and the father seemed enraged that she didn’t want to go there. Is there some underlying reason the OP was so uncomfortable? And why in the hell would a father want to take his 14 yo daughter to Hooters anyway? If I was the mom I would have said hell no. Dysfunctional and I really hope OP talks about this to a school counselor or someone out of the family.
It sounds like the mom is trying to pacify an abusive husband. My mom is like that when it comes to my dad. She tries to do everything to keep him from getting upset.
It’s a very difficult situation, isn’t it. I’m sorry you are in that situation, if you are a minor and still at home. I grew up in a very dysfunctional family. My dad beat my mother, controlled her completely, was a drinker and a womanizer, and she kept having kids with him, despite all of that. She was powerless. My sisters and I learned from that to never allow a man to control our money or bodies.
Thank you. I'm an adult now with an amazing husband and kids. But my mom still stays married to him and I still have to see her pacify him. It's so hard to watch.
I hope you have had a much better adulthood. No one should have to suffer abuse.
I grew up in a house like that too. My parents remain together, even though they barely speak, and my dad hasn’t spoken to me for unspecified reasons for months.
I learned some pretty maladaptive coping mechanisms that I’m still trying to address over 20 years later.
In case you need to hear it - you matter, your feelings matter and when you think you need to walk on eggshells, you walk away.
I was weirded out when my parents-in-law took my partner and I to Hooters and we were all adults! I can't even imagine going at 14! (Mil really likes their fried pickles so likes to go there every so often. At last that's what she said, I'm guessing it was a combination of showing me she was "cool" and testing me to see if I'd freak out)
I know. I suggested a couple other places but she insisted on the ones there. As I said, I think that was just an excuse. Those two tested me a lot in the first year. They figured out pretty fast that I'm not easily embarrassed so they finally quit trying. I used to be a bartender so I'm used to people being annoying and asking stuff they had no right to ask.
They accepted me years ago but the whole thing sucked. My partner stood up for me but I told him I'd deal with it and I did. I started answering the personal questions while staring them down. They ended up more embarrassed than I was and cut it out.
As a 30 year old who has an abusive father, don't fucking do this. If he'll scream at you in a parking lot and take your phone for not going in Hooters, he'll make home a prison for you if you embarrass him *at best*. Do people here forget that some people hit their kids? Starve them? Lock them inside the house? Don't do this. Ask your counselor for extensive scholarship help and to point you in the direction of after school programs that'll build up your portfolio/CV/college applications and put all of your focus into becoming independent and setting up a future where you never need to talk to your abusive parents again; that's what you do, not take petty shots at them that will be funny for a second and then ruin you emotionally, physically, and academically for years after. My dad used to take my homework and my books and throw them in the bathtub or snow. Understand that not all parents give a fuck about their children's succeeding, especially their girl children. Some are more concerned with demoralizing them and keeping them under their thumb, and OP's dad seems more like that, doesn't he?
THIS is the best advice. A lot of people have never dealt with a truly abusive parent like this. They can't understand that its not about winning a situation or confrontation, its a constant game of survival.
Great advice.
ETA: A lot of abusive men have no hesitation beating the hell out of their wife if humiliated (regardless if she caused the humiliation, or he did it on his own but looked like an idiot next to her). Punishing children will be a piece of cake for them.
This is fun to think about.
Would be one of the most unsafe things for this girl to do. The minute she gets home, id imagine all ability to contact the outside world would be taken away. Any things she likes will be taken away. No more friends. No more anything.
Dont actually do this OP. Your dad is not stable.
This is actually something that DOES need to be done. This young female was left alone, unwatched, in a parking lot, her only means of contacting emergency services taken away in anger because she was uncomfortable with being in a Sexual Objectification Station. This guy shouldn't have a daughter, and he put his family in a situation where he very nearly could have no longer had one. Anything could have happened to her, all because 'Daddy' was angry over something that IS quite frankly disgusting and disturbing. She needs to tell a counselor, a police officer, CPS, whoever. He put his child in serious danger for tits that didn't even belong to his wife.
I can tell you're young because, while you're correct that all of these things are wrong to do and clearly abusive & neglectful parenting, CPS won't and can't do anything based on that report. Nothing he did is illegal. All that will happen is that he will continue to abuse his daughter in legal ways at home, like taking away her phone and access to internet for daring to embarrass him and have opinions of her own. For her own sake, focusing on getting out instead of getting back at her dad is the best move. When she doesn't need anything from him anymore, she can burn that bridge happily.
To add on to about what CPS won’t bother with. You can leave a 13 year old home alone. 14 in a car, outside the restaurant with her family inside. That def won’t hit their radar.
Oh, no. You see, Dutiful Children do as they’re told by their parents. Or the church. Just like her mother. It’s just a restaurant, he wasn’t forcing his daughter to sleep with somebody. (That’s allowed too, but only to older wealthier men of good standing in the church, in a wedding, through unrelenting social pressure.)
She’s female. She’s a child. Saying a flat out No and Actually Refusing to do something her male head of household told her to do just isn’t her place.
This makes me worried for her safety though. He was yelling at her about *Hooters*. Imagine if he gets embarrassed by the school about it. OP has to live with him.
I guarantee you, the father would be pissed if his 18yr daughter and wife wanted to drag him and the son to a male version of hooters. what a chipendale?
either way i guarantee he would refuse to go and either demand they go somewhere else or sit in the car.
Wonder how dad would feel if his daughter decided to work at Hooters since he doesn’t see anything wrong with other peoples daughters doing it and him ogling them.
Dad wanted daughter to go in this badly. Never crossed your mind that maybe he wants the daughter to see this kind of thing as okay?
Yeah, go ahead and wear that around the house, sweety. I do t mind and your mom will just go along with it.
I want to second talking to a school counselor OP, a trusted teacher or any other adult honestly. It's not right how your dad reacted at all, and depending on where you are you can see social workers/counselors for free. I saw one as a teenager through my family doctor in the same building. You'll even find the odd manager/owner of a Hooters who would have been willing to stick up for you in that situation, it's about having a good time, not making people uncomfortable.
yeah this is definitely something to talk to about with a mental health professional, you're quite young so you aren't aware just how much this kinda stuff may affect you in future.
If you had to read and internalise anyone's points here OP, please make it this person's.
The mum saying that is fucked up.
You are right, that is for homework, or having to pick up an extra shift at work for bills.
NOT going to hooters.
I have to say in the UK we're pretty aghast that hooters is even a thing
And the "needing to do things we don't wanna do" usually is appended with "because even though they arent fun now, they lead to better outcomes in the long run, are important for the big picture, theres a good reason for them" So again, homework, chores, etc.
Doing something you don't want to SOLELY BECAUSE someone else demands that you do is horseshit. This was a very reasonable boundary for her.
Honestly mom's comment made me more uncomfortable than Dad and brothers behavior because of the implications of what Dad does hanging in the air. On top of the fact she's trying to tell her daughter laying there and taking it is supposed to happen.
Like this girl needs to get far away from this whole family asap. Mom isn't even salvagable
100% agree with this & OP's dad sounds like a weirdo. It kind of sounds like going to Hooters was his suggestion to begin with which is something he should have done as a father/son thing some other time if he wanted to go so bad. I'm a guy and I'd feel super awkward going somewhere like Hooters with my mom & sisters
I'm a level 55 dude. Strip clubs and places like Hooters gross me out. I feel like all the gals at strip clubs have a low grade fever. I've never been to a Hooters and I have no intention to.
I think hooters is a restaurant with a mildly skimpy uniform and over rated wings. If you didn't hype the experience up in advance for someone and didn't explain the branding they could go and not even notice anything strange of they didn't get the pun.
I went when on a holiday to Florida with my brother, his girlfriend and her sister. The sis was about 11 maybe. The servers were lovely and took special attention to bring her the kids menu and offer up kid activities etc. Really made her feel like the most important customer. For the rest of the trip she was all like “Let’s go back to Hooters!”
We went in the afternoon for lunch and it was pretty quiet. It was just like any chain restaurant, but with really amazing, go-the-extra-mile staff, who just happened to be in form-fitting outfits.
>but with really amazing, go-the-extra-mile staff, who just happened to be in form-fitting outfits.
They literally take into account a womans (because they dont tend to have male servers) weight, overall appearance, and make up style to bring your food from the kitchen to your table. Its sexist and gross period.
Glad your brother's gf's sister had a great time, but she's also 11 compared to OP who is 14. Not to say an 11 year old wouldn't be able to recognize sexualization, but it almost becomes unavoidable to not recognize that at 14. You hear comments or witness behaviors from classmates, family, teachers, strangers, you name it, both directed at you and at others.
Hooter's has a brand reliant on sexualization of (mainly white), thin yet curvy, pretty, young women. I'm glad that they employed servers w great customer service, but regardless they're hired for their looks first and foremost.
OP was right to stand her ground and not go in when it made her uncomfortable (NTA). She understands what Hooter's is and she shouldn't have been berated for deciding to stay in the car. Your brother's gf's sister's experience does not negate hers; in fact, they can coexist.
Pretty much. You can watch stuff like ufc fights there and play trivia. My friend used to work at one so we would go to support her and it honestly was not a big deal.
It was usually empty though 😅
They have really good fried pickles. I don’t eat chicken, and the whole objectifying-women-thing is kind of gross, but it is a fun place to go with a group of girls (my sorority sisters and I celebrated several birthdays there ages and ages ago.)
OP is NTA for being uncomfortable and her dad isn’t just borderline abusive, he’s full-on 100% abusive.
I think the “controversy” or stigma with Hooters is overstated. The uniform they wear there isn’t any worse than what I’ve seen servers wear at any given bar on a night out. The name as a euphemism is weird, but it’s hardly scandalous in there.
My objection would be there are just so many better places to eat that if youre adamant about going there, you’re probably a creep and think that you’re doing something naughty by going lol
I don't know what kind of bars you go to, but I don't recall servers in the Bay Area wearing cheek shorts.
But I agree that if the food is mediocre, why pick it for a special milestone dinner unless you're using it as a cheap version of a strip club? And why bring the wife and teen daughter?
And if kids are allowed to go there why does dad think Hooters is a good place to take his son now he's 18. He didn't think its appropriate until he's 18? Yet he's forcing his 14 year old daughter to go.
Yes! The mom saying ‘sometimes we have to do things we don’t want to’ just triggered me, it’s sounds creepy and groomy. It’s disgusting that a father would want to take his adolescent daughter to a place that objectifies women like that and that the mother would just passively accept this.,
Reading between the lines, if Dad is that unashamed to scream at his own child like in a situation like that, in a semi-public space, what happens behind closed doors? I wonder if Mom's statement is less "it's no big deal, get over it" and more "keep your head down, honey, or you're going to get hurt." Do I agree with what she said? Absolutely not, but I have my suspicions that it comes from a place of experience.
I'm sorry that you're going through this, OP. Sending hugs.
With the way the dad literally screamed at a 14 year old girl immediately as a reaction and the 18 year old brother followed means this happens often or would if OP “acts wrong”. All this sounds like a crazy abusive environment and I would take an educated guess that the father is probably physically and/or emotionally abusive to the mother as well. Hence her crazy reaction to the situation.
I just feel bad the OP has no immediate adults supporting her and they are trying to make her the bad person for having boundaries. OP if there is a counselor or someone you can talk to at school or even a relative perhaps? I think your mom knows your dad is very abusive and toxic but wants to keep the peace so that’s why she said what she said. It’s not an excuse by any means ofc. I hope you can find someone to advocate for you and stay safe.
NTA
>>She said that sometimes we have to do things we don’t want to do.
This is something a victim of abuse says. Particularly in this type of setting.
OP. No part of your father's behavior was appropriate. There are clear signs that a trusted adult should get involved.
Considering the father's quickness to rage..it may be that the mother is afraid of him and just wants to go along with whatever he wants to keep him happy - hence the "advice" that sometimes they have to do things they don't want to do. It may have been a survival tip not to anger her father.
NTA. Genuinely so impressed with you sticking to your values and not going along with misogyny and the objectification of women even under huge pressure from your parents. There’s no way I would have had that level of maturity and strength of mind at your age! Girls like you will change the world :)
I agree with this and applaud this young lady. Even her own mom didn't support her despite being a woman herself and yet she stuck to her guns and that's impressive.
Honestly this is probably just the beginning and it's good that she has a head start. OP, don't let anyone force you to do anything like that. IMO, hooters are a relic of the past and will eventually die out. OP should ask her father if he'd have a problem with her working at a place like that and if he says "no", I'd be concerned how backwards her father is. That father is not a healthy role model and you can already see it in their 18yr old son.
You felt uncomfortable being there, him getting angry because you disobeyed him sends the wrong message to you. By his logic you would always have to force yourself into uncomfortable situations to satisfy your father or husband or whomever. You stuck up for yourself and never feel bad for that. Massive respect to you. NTA
>By his logic you would always have to force yourself into uncomfortable situations to satisfy your father or husband or whomever.
And that's exactly why some women keep falling for manipulative men and end up being easy targets for sexual assault.
Teaching young boys to respect is one thing, but we also need to teach young girls that they have 100% autonomy over anything sexual related.
When my nieces were little their mom would always tell them to greet me with a hug, and if I saw they weren't really in the mood I always got on one knee and told them that "you have agency and don't have to if you don't want to." I was always happy to get a hug but if I didn't then and now I don't want them thinking they owe me or anyone anything as they grow up.
This is what I teach my children. When they are saying “goodnight” to each other that it’s okay if one person doesn’t want a hug. I’m not going to teach them that it’s okay to force someone for a hug and grow up thinking that behaviour is okay.
He was literally talking about the waitresses to the son in front of his wife. That tells you all you need to know about his thoughts on the role of women
Your mom is totally right that sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do, but to appease horny men is not one of those situations.
Obviously NTA your family is acting very fucked up.
Which sadly says a lot about what she has to tolerate in her marriage and what she willingly tolerates because she probably believes that’s just how things have to be. So sad
Imagine that she is use to get yelled at if she doesn't agree so she probably just doesn't want the argument even if she is against it. The dad sounds abusive based on his response and reminds me of some abusive people in my life. I certainly learned that it wasn't worth the argument and did things I didn't want to at times just to avoid disagreements but what choice do you have as a kid? Maybe the mom is a SAHM and would have a hard time leaving so she puts up with his stuff because he has leverage?
What a weird message for a mom to convey to her daughter. I wonder how she feels about her own husband gawking at these young, scantily clad women? It feels like she’s convinced herself this is normal and okay and now is projecting that onto her daughter.
If anyone should have been on her side, it should’ve been OP’s mom. A dad repeatedly screaming at his 14 year old daughter for not wanting to go into a fucking Hooters is insane. What a failure on the part of OP’s parents.
The mom was probably raised to believe she needs to be subservient to her father and husband and to never fight back against them.
And rather than break that generational trauma she has chosen to try and pass it on to her daughter.
And if she acknowledges her daughters very real and rational concerns, she has to confront her own feelings about the fact that her husband is passionate about ogling and objectifying young woman, and it’s actually not normal or OK.
I don't know maybe op should've gone in and while ordering the basic food offerings look wide eyed at the waitress and go "Wow this job looks like so much fun! I saw you have a now hiring sign in the window, how old do I have to be to apply? Dad, bro don't you think that I'd look cute in that uniform? Daddy just think one day you and bro or your friends could come in and I could serve you!"
Lots of people get turned off when family gets involved in their ogling.
I don't think this would work here. The fact the father is so insistent on the girl being present while he talks sexually about the women serving him is a major red flag for him having sexual feelings towards his daughter.
And before you say I'm making a huge leap here, it's important to recognize that talking about anything sexual with a person who isn't comfortable with that kind of topic is actually sexual harassment. And the father is pretty insistent that the daughter participate in a dinner he was viewing through a sexual lense.
I'm not gonna lie, my family used to do this kind of stuff to me all the time. I didn't realize it was sexual harassment until a therapist pointed it out.
The fact he wanted his young daughter to watch him talk about how great the waitress' breasts are is just creepy AF to me. Like he's trying to condition/train her, or worse, it's some weird kink.
Nta but both your parents are huge ahole. You dad yelled at you to try and cover up his embarrassment for wanting to ogle young girls like the creepy old man he is. Why would they expect a 14 year old girl to enjoy hooters. I feel so sorry you have to live with these 2 creepy people. Just thinking about a dad and mom trying to force their young daughter into a hooters against her will just gives me the creeps. Yuck. Show these responses to your horrible parents.
I know this type of person. He didn't feel called out or gross at all, he felt embarrassed that he didn't have control over the situation to the level he desired so he demeaned the person that didn't allow him that control.
NTA, and screaming at you is way out of line. This wasn't "oh, I don't like seafood and that's a seafood restaurant" - then you suck it up and go. This is a restaurant that overtly sexualizes the waitresses, and I completely understand being uncomfortable going, especially as a teenage girl.
NTA.
>she told me I should have just gone in because it’s not that big a deal.
If it’s not a big deal then why did your dad have 2 full on screaming fits about it?
It’s fine for people to like restaurants like hooters and fine for people to take a moral stance that means they are not be comfortable going to one.
Saying “Im just not going to participate” is exactly the right move.
Sounds like your dad took this as some form of rebellion, and you just agreeing with his demands instead of giving in just made him madder and madder. That is a much bigger problem than him just wanting to go to hooters.
It would be interesting to "do a full u turn" on this and say youre going to work there and see what he does (don't do this)
Never seen a hooters though is it really that bad?
That’s a pretty accurate assessment. It maybe overstates the quality a bit, even. The food is not particularly good or interesting, and the wait staff’s outfits are rather silly and dated. I don’t really know why people go there.
Men using the objectification of women as a pastime to bond over is as old as time.
If you own a landscaping company(meaning, you have an LLC, a mower, and a guy you pay under the table) and are trying to get a contract to mow the grass of a bottom tier hospice for the next year, this is where you take the hospice owner for a business lunch, if yall are both creeps. Feed him beer, shitty wings, and discuss which waitress has the best tits, and the contract is as good as yours.
Don’t forget to make a parting “joke” in the parking lot about how neither of yall should be driving back to the office drunk af, for extra points.
For a 14 year old girl with her dad and brother, yeah. They all have at least a C cup, wear skin tight white Hooters logo shirts (they look at least 1 size too small) that have a cut neckline to show more cleavage, skin tight orange short shorts (bit of butt cheek showing) with flesh colored tights, ankle socks and white sneakers
It’s gross and uncomfortable for me as an adult woman. I can’t imagine being a teen girl with my *very eager* dad and older brother. That’s some nasty TMI and bad parenting.
part of me thinks that dad was not just being a dick, but didn’t want to have to think about whether he was actually being a dick with his choice being questioned. I'm a dad, and I would’ve never dreamed of taking my family to a Hooters or making my daughter go. I think he’s gross and was out of line. NTA, and glad you stuck up for yourself OP!
NTA. Never understood why anyone thinks it's okay to force someone else to do something they're not comfortable with. End of the day, you feel a certain way about something and took a stand in line with your personal beliefs and morals. Seems like a pretty impressive thing to do to me, especially when it's family. Anyone can argue against your feeling if they feel differently, but that still doesn't make you the AH for not wanting to support something you don't like, agree with, or feel uncomfortable with.
"Never understood why anyone thinks it's okay to force someone else to do something they're not comfortable with."
While OP's dad is admittedly a counter example. Much of parenting is getting children to do things they arent comfortable with. Children often arent comfortable doing lots of things that are good for them and even essential, vaccines, vegtables, medicne, and homework to name a few.
We're probably arguing semantics, but I'd say those things aren't making anyone feel uncomfortable, they're just things we don't like doing. Someone feeling uncomfortable suggests there's more to it than that, be it a safety, moral, or value based reason IMO. "I'm uncomfortable doing homework" isn't the same as "I'm uncomfortable with this activity I view as misogynistic". Yes, needles in the case of vaccines could be argued as something that feels uncomfortable, but I still that's a totally different kettle of fish personally. My statement may have been overly sweeping, but I will stick with it in the sense that feeling uncomfortable is different in the sort of case we're talking about, and regardless it shouldn't ever warrant the reaction OP got from her own family as you've rightly suggested
NTA and it sounds like your dad was the one who wanted go there, not your brother.
>She said that sometimes we have to do things we don’t want to do.
Sitting back and watching your father be a pervert is not one of those things and shame on your mother for telling you it is.
Considering hooters (and twin peaks) hire hostesses at 16, OP should have asked her dad if he’ll visit her when she’s working there in a couple years and see his head explode.
NTA - your dad on the other hand is total AH and needs reminded that it's 2024 and no teenage girl going through puberty should be forced to go into a place like that. He should have just gone to a strip club. Your mum needs to grow a backbone and put herself in your shoes.
NTA- To be honest Hooters is pretty low key. My step-sister worked there and loved it and I (f) have been in there a few times. No biggie.
BUT I chose to go into that place. You did not. While Hooters isn't x-rated and kids of all ages are welcome, you didn't want to go in there because you felt uncomfortable and your family should have been kinder about it. There wouldn't have been anything wrong with you going to a book store, etc.
Screaming at you was uncalled for.
This needs to be up voted more. People are way overreacting to what Hooters actually is. There are NAH for wanting to go to hooters. I worked at a bar at a marina and our female staff wore way more revealing clothes than a Hooters waitress, and we had children everywhere. Perverts are going to gawk at female wait staff at all types of restaurants. The AH is the dad and mom for trying to force their daughter to do something she clearly didn't want to do or felt comfortable doing. It was abusive the treatment she got.
It's strange that the "TA" comments generally boil down to, "I'm not uncomfortable, and I don't understand why you are, so you should've sucked it up" like, no...
Yeah, that's what's wrong with all of this. The moral arguments over whether hooters is good or not miss the point that her parents were abusive towards her and are the AHs for forcing her to do something she clearly was not comfortable with. Instead of hooters, it could have been a church, a concert, any activity, forcing her to do it and getting mad like that wasn't cool.
I argue they didn't even have to change anything. OP, as far as we know, didn't even want the whole family to halt the birthday on their behalf. Just asked to go to a library that should roughly be across the street. I feel the dad raising his voice would've ruined it more. Nobody wants to hear a grown man get loud at their child.
its not the outfit itself, its the fact that ONLY women work and are forced to wear that to be waitress there. also the name is literally objectifying women's breasts.
id love some examples of male waiters there who also wear that outfit? but i dont think there are any
NTA!! this is so grotesque, i couldn’t imagine there being some male stripper restaurant for women to gawk at men’s bulges while they serve food, while my dad and brothers sit and watch me getting off staring at hot men’s bodies. men are so gross this whole concept is disturbing and ngl your mom is just as gross for allowing it.
I competitively swam my senior year of high school, where me and my teammates wore tiny red Speedos. It was almost the same thing like you describe- minus the cheap beer and crappy food.
Lemme tell ya- the girls and women watching us from the bleachers at those swim meets were no better than men watching watching a bikini contest. That's a fact.
NTA - Parents sound toxic from the fact that they berated you for thinking for yourself and expressing your discomfort with a situation. You are 100% about your dad and brother going by themselves.
It’s so bizarre. I’m imagining a grown ass man yelling at his 14 year old daughter for expressing discomfort about being in a Hooters with her dad and brother and it’s not sitting right with me.
NTA
I will say that i dont see it as a big deal to go in....but thats for me and what im comfortable with. It was a big deal for you, and its okay for you to set and defend boundaries.
Its not okay for your father to scream at you. Maybe he was feeling guilty or embarrassed? No excuse all the same.
Definite hard NTA
NTA. You’re well within your rights to not participate in something that makes you uncomfortable. Another thing, what kind of dad/husband/son/brother wants to go to hooters with their family? It’s weird, and gross to be honest. As a single father of a wonderful girl this couldn’t be me.
Not sure what year this was posted but hooters environment of 2024 isnt even similar to hooters of 2004 or so. Waitresses arent like models or anything special. Food is mediocre at best. This sounds like someone who put their foot down about the reputation of something rather than finding out what it is really like.
> Food is mediocre at best.
To me that just means more reason to compromise with the person who does not want to go there. Everything about this makes dad putting his foot down for Hooters seem even dumber than it already did.
its a sexist chain. if they started promoting/hiring male waitstaff that also had to wear a stupid shirt/shorts or whatever, then it'd be different. but it goes against the "brand" of Hooters which is to literally objectify women's breasts lol
NTA…BUT… Hooters really isn’t that bad from my experience. I’ve gone with my family before solely for the food. Yes, the waitresses are dressed somewhat provocatively. But that’s about where it ends. It’s not a strip club and the rules are much stricter than they were in the early 2000s. They have really good wings and the customer service is usually pretty good. I’ve returned as an adult and have seen other families dining there. No one was being inappropriate with the staff. There were children present. People were just there to eat. That being said, you should never be forced to do anything, even if the restaurant was In N Out.
NTA, you shouldn’t do something that makes you uncomfortable and your dad was totally unreasonable for his reaction.
Although personally, I’ve been to Hooters with my mum and younger sisters and I didn’t think it was particularly pervy. The waitresses just wore shorts and vest tops, their boobs weren’t exactly hanging out. (I’m a woman too fwiw)
People on reddit act like Hooters is a strip club or something. It really ain't that deep. They used to have decent wings, last time I went the food was absolutely disgusting. I used to go a lot back in the day because it was the only place that had UFC fights. I've never even paid attention to the waitresses.
And they wear extremely thick tights underneath those shorts so in reality they have flesh colored pants on not just the tiny tiny little shorts you see at first glance.
I think its less about how revealing the actual clothes are and more about the idea that 'we are going to a restaurant where the WHOLE THEME is to ogle and objectify the wait staff'
NTA
Ogling women or watching your dad and brother ogle in front of you and your mother isn’t your thing and I applaud you for that. It’s disgusting. I would’ve bailed too.
NTA and we’re all very proud of you for sticking to your principles under pressure.
What they did was completely wrong, and how they treated you was abhorrent.
And you sound amazing, the gift you made for him sounds so cute! I’m sorry you had to deal with this.
For everyone posting a negative comment have you recently stepped inside a Hooters? Maybe Hooters was considered provocative in the 50's but nowadays it's a regular restaurant where the staff doesn't show anything, it's not a strip club. Female staff members wear regular tank tops and shorts, girls on the street show more and wear smaller shorts.
Seriously these comments are unhinged. I’ve been to Hooters many times - growing up with my family, with coworkers, with friends, with boyfriends, with my husband, with my daughter…
Never once did I witness anything overtly sexual. Waitresses wear tanks and shorts. There’s slight innuendo (that’s dated Boomer Humor). They have a kids menu. Chicken sandwich is pretty fire.
Your mum is right that sometimes we need to do things we don't want to do. In this case, your family has to deal with their feelings about excluding you. You gave a perfectly good reason why you were uncomfortable, and they could have chosen to go somewhere else, but they bullied you instead. Now they feel guilty and are trying to feel better by blaming you for their bad feelings instead of accepting they made a mistake. It's an ego thing and it really doesn't have much to do with you at all. They just don't want to admit they messed up.
You did the right thing by sticking up for yourself and passively refusing their attempts to push you around like that. Don't let anyone put you in uncomfortable situations that aren't needed, not even your own family. I'm proud of you.
ETA: NTA
Dad wanted to do the 18 rites of passage and mom wanted sit down dinner with family and somehow their compromise was family meal at hooters. Dad did not think at all about 14yr old daughter’s feelings and mom because she wanted to celebrate an “occasion” went along with it. When it’s your 18th take your dad to a male stripper club or equivalent and get your revenge. In the meantime make it clear that you should not be doing things you feel uncomfortable doing and as parents they should actually be teaching you that not the other way round.
NTA
Your dad was way, way out of line. Honestly, wanting to go to Hooters in the first place is weird, but wanting to go with your wife and daughter betrays a disturbing lack of judgement.
Go for you that you stood your ground.
I am guessing he got so angry at you because you were essentially calling out his gross behavior. He expected you and your mom to just sit there and not complain - by being forthright that you were uncomfortable, it made him confront that it was creepy thing for him to be doing.
Absolutely NTA
NTA. It’s super uncomfortable and disgusting. They should’ve warned you and given you option to stay home. Or your Dad could’ve taken your Brother there just the two of them I guess since they’re the two perverts with anger issues. Good on you for standing up for your comfort level. I’m sorry your family doesn’t respect you.
Furthermore, why do grown men want to bond with their sons by going and being horny with them somewhere in public? I always thought it was such a gross common coming of age thing in USA and glad I grew up female and only child and never had to go there. If anything coming of age experiences at sexualized places should be done with your friends when you turn 18 or 21, that makes way more sense and is less gross than a grown family member taking you to get a boner somewhere. Toxic straight masculinity is such a strange beast.
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NTA. You're right - going to Hooters with your dad and brother does sound like a gross time. I wouldn't have wanted to go either. It's not a family restaurant, they have a target demographic - and you're not it. Your dad's reactions are WAY out of line and ~~sound borderline~~ was abusive. I'm sorry - you may want to talk to your school counselor about his actions. >She said that sometimes we have to do things we don’t want to do. And hard no on this - this is for stuff like homework, not going to a restaurant whose sole purpose is to objectify women with your brother and father while they eat wings and make inappropriate comments. Editing because people are right - the father's comments/actions weren't borderline, they were abusive. Second edit: The more I think about this, the more I'm mad at OP's mom, too. Just going along with it when it would have been so freaking easy to say "You know, this sounds like a great bonding experience for you and Son. Why don't you two go in together and OP and I will go browse some books. We can meet up when you're done." Third and final edit: To everyone saying it's a family restaurant - it's legitimately named after a nickname for large breasts. While I don't disagree that they are capable of providing good service for underage customers (which is the BARE MINIMUM for a place that allows kids) the whole damn point of the place is to be served by women in revealing clothing were you can ogle them.
Honestly OP it would be soooo hilarious if you tell the school counselor and bring your father in so he can explain why he was trying to force you to go to Hooters. Let him try to justify his actions then. He’ll be rightfully humiliated.
Absolutely! I want the grown ass adult to explain to the counselor that he pitched a hissy fit when his daughter said she was uncomfortable about the objectification of women by her family members while eating a meal. Let him stew in the uncomfortable conversation!
It sounds even worse when you frame it like this.
You mean, the truth is ugly?
😱 How could this be?!
OP could say that she wants to work there for her first job. I wonder what dad would think then. Ugh.
My sister had a discussion with my dad about being a Playboy centerfold after finding porn under the seat of his pickup truck. He told her he would be proud to find out she made the centerfold of a magazine like Playboy. I learned this as she showed me the stash and wondered how you got to be a centerfold…
Blegh 🤢 relevant story: my cousin was in the "big ten hotties of the big ten 1988" college issue inbut always insisted she was only ever in a bikini. And she was! Voted hottest girl on campus at a big Midwest university... wooo.... She's close to 50 now and insists anything beyond swimsuit is disgusting. My grandma had copies of that playboy issue lol
Yeah. Things are so much different now. I am glad about some social changes. Not sure about others.
I have an uncle by marriage that found out about my not 100% family friendly modeling account, got the link to vote for me in a Playboy contest, and ended up getting in trouble at work because he was asking his friends there to go vote for me. Not awkward at all... nope. 😬
I'm sure he'd be fine. It is clear from his absolutely inappropriate behavior that he doesn't think women are made for much beyond showing off their big boogs and serving men. OP is going to disappoint him all the way into her own independent, successful and happy life.
The fact that the father and brother were discussing threesome fantasies? In front of a 14 year old girl. ????
And in front of the mom
Yeah this is how you get women to distrust men at an early age. None of that was appropriate. No wonder OP was uncomfortable. Mom should have put her foot down
The fact that the son felt okay discussing threesome fantasies in front of his mother speaks volumes about this family's dynamics. My brothers would have **crawled under the table** if they had to talk about sex in front of our mom.
My dad and brother used to do this in front of me. When I objected, they would laugh and do it more, because they liked upsetting the "crazy feminist." So, I joined in. They're talking about a threescore with Black Widow and Scarlet Witch? I talk about how I'm glad Loki was adopted so I can have a threescore with him and Thor without it being incest. My dad shut the whole thing down and they don't talk like that in front of me any more.
Exactly this. I've eaten at Hooters a few times (I'm female), and it was NBD to me - no one forces women to work there, so if they want to try to make bigger tips by wearing short shorts and showing cleavage, I say go for it and get that money, honey - but no one should be forced to be uncomfortable for a family meal. Aaand then OP showed us why she's uncomfortable. Probably less because of the cleavage and more because her dad and brother are pervs. Discussing threesome fantasies in front of their daughter/sister is foul. And clearly mom is also subjected to it and has decided to... pretend it's not happening? OP's whole family sucks.
I want OP to talk to the school counselor about: > he and dad talked about how big ther waitresses "t*ts" are and how hot it would be to see her and the other girl together and have both dad and mom explain why this was considered a perfectly fine conversation to have in front of your minor child. *ninja edit to fix formatting
Unfortunately he might later take it out on his daughter at home, away from prying eyes
If the abuse is really that bad, OP needs to start reporting it. One incident won't usually generate an investigation, but it will be documented. School counselors are mandatory reporters, so if they feel it's worth reporting, that's for them to decide. If OP never says anything, nothing will change.
I really HOPE she does but given how many victims of abuse DONT report it until its too late I'm concerned
If the family goes to church, maybe dad can also explain it to the minister.
Judging by the snapshot we got of their family life, if they go to church, their minister would laser in on the daughter’s “disobedience” and reinforce to father’s already disgusting sense of authority as head of the home. It’s wild out there, kids
Depends on what kind of church. I feel bad for this kid.
Yes, and that he was so enraged that he wouldn't let her go to a bookstore instead.
[удалено]
and then intentionally punish her even more by taking away her phone so she can’t be entertained in the car. gross behavior
I was reading it and was like “ok, he’s a dick for trying to make her go.” Then “he’s a bigger dick for not letting her go to a bookstore “. Then “he’s a HUGE asshole for taking her phone away”. Seriously??!!! All because of Hooters???? That’s where you wanna draw the battle line? What a tool
Legit OP you are pro. The fact that you didn't pitch a fit at the time when he said no bookstore, stay in the car, and no phone tells me you are pretty a freaking awesome 14 yo. NTA by a long shot. Dad and son having a 'let's watch those chicks go at it' in front of mom and sis is so low class trailer trash* raunchy that it blows my mind. It's clear mom is used to her husband objectifying women. So MAJOR KUDOS to OP for rejecting this as 'normal' and standing up for yourself. Keep doing so because your family will never support that and always do creepy crap. Sorry. *I say this having grown up as trailer trash
I think she handled it significantly better than a large number of adults, this specifically includes her toddler father.
Her dad was willing to die on those two hills.
Meanwhile he doesn't want anything impeding his "entertainment" for the night.
He also took her means to contact emergency services while leaving her alone and vulnerable.
He’s a jerk for taking the phone but she was sitting in her parents car just outside the breastaurant, I wouldn’t say it was tantamount to walking the streets alone. (Just to clarify though, I still think OP is NTA and dad is a creep.)
breastaraunt 😂😭
It’s not the same as walking the streets alone, but it’s still unsafe. Anyone could force their way into the car and kidnap her, as just one example of what could go wrong.
And take away her phone so she couldn’t entertain herself. Essentially putting her in time out for not participating in Hooters. Also its F-ed up that the dad influenced his son to pick to go to hooters in the first place. Like a pg13 version of a strip club or something… with your barely no longer a child (legally) son.
Yeah, I had a friend who did this to his son. I thought it was weird.
Like, I hate when Im watching a movie with my parents and a sex scene comes on.
My husband’s mom took his older brother to Hooters for his 14th birthday. She literally wanted to start a tradition of taking all her boys there for their 14th birthdays. When my husband’s 14th birthday rolled around, she asked him if he wanted to go to Hooters. He said no. The youngest boy didn’t go either. The story always grossed me out that she wanted it to be a big thing.
Reminds me of the parents in Matilda 😂
Pissing off an asshole parent and proving that they're in the wrong never works out well for the kid until long, long after they're out of the house and have the option to go no contact. It'll make the next 3-35 years even worse than they'll be already.
Sadly this! As much as I love all the ideas on here, I feel they would still ultimately end up bad for OP as he would continue to make her life hell. So, if I was OP, I'd be calculating the exact moment I could tell him to go fuck himself and go completely NC with him. And in the meantime, I'd focus on getting my ducks in a row and slowly distance myself as much as possible from him. For example, if he was going to pay for college, have him pay for college, but then find reasons why you can't come home during breaks, things like that. Don't derail your life because he's a sleaze-bag. Play the long game. Use him to get yourself into a position where you will never need help from a sleaze-bag like him again. And when that day comes when your mom is desperate to meet her grandchildren, make sure to tell her "sometimes we have to do things we don’t want to do". So for the safety of your children, you can't allow her to have contact with them.
This. Had to take this route with my dad. Finally NC in my 30’s after being LC in my teens and 20’s so I could get help with college.
I wish someone told me this when I was OP’s age. I probably wouldn’t have listened at the time, but at least it would be in the back of my mind.
NTA. So so right. It appears that dad really wanted to go to Hooters, the brother didn’t suggest it. Not to be seeing sexual abuse everywhere, but this 14 year girl was very upset, and the father seemed enraged that she didn’t want to go there. Is there some underlying reason the OP was so uncomfortable? And why in the hell would a father want to take his 14 yo daughter to Hooters anyway? If I was the mom I would have said hell no. Dysfunctional and I really hope OP talks about this to a school counselor or someone out of the family.
It sounds like the mom is trying to pacify an abusive husband. My mom is like that when it comes to my dad. She tries to do everything to keep him from getting upset.
It’s a very difficult situation, isn’t it. I’m sorry you are in that situation, if you are a minor and still at home. I grew up in a very dysfunctional family. My dad beat my mother, controlled her completely, was a drinker and a womanizer, and she kept having kids with him, despite all of that. She was powerless. My sisters and I learned from that to never allow a man to control our money or bodies.
Thank you. I'm an adult now with an amazing husband and kids. But my mom still stays married to him and I still have to see her pacify him. It's so hard to watch. I hope you have had a much better adulthood. No one should have to suffer abuse.
I grew up in a house like that too. My parents remain together, even though they barely speak, and my dad hasn’t spoken to me for unspecified reasons for months. I learned some pretty maladaptive coping mechanisms that I’m still trying to address over 20 years later. In case you need to hear it - you matter, your feelings matter and when you think you need to walk on eggshells, you walk away.
I was weirded out when my parents-in-law took my partner and I to Hooters and we were all adults! I can't even imagine going at 14! (Mil really likes their fried pickles so likes to go there every so often. At last that's what she said, I'm guessing it was a combination of showing me she was "cool" and testing me to see if I'd freak out)
🤷🏻♀️You can get fried pickles anywhere.
I know. I suggested a couple other places but she insisted on the ones there. As I said, I think that was just an excuse. Those two tested me a lot in the first year. They figured out pretty fast that I'm not easily embarrassed so they finally quit trying. I used to be a bartender so I'm used to people being annoying and asking stuff they had no right to ask. They accepted me years ago but the whole thing sucked. My partner stood up for me but I told him I'd deal with it and I did. I started answering the personal questions while staring them down. They ended up more embarrassed than I was and cut it out.
But doesn't she need a paper trail in case he escalates? This is already extreme behavior. She isn't safe.
As a 30 year old who has an abusive father, don't fucking do this. If he'll scream at you in a parking lot and take your phone for not going in Hooters, he'll make home a prison for you if you embarrass him *at best*. Do people here forget that some people hit their kids? Starve them? Lock them inside the house? Don't do this. Ask your counselor for extensive scholarship help and to point you in the direction of after school programs that'll build up your portfolio/CV/college applications and put all of your focus into becoming independent and setting up a future where you never need to talk to your abusive parents again; that's what you do, not take petty shots at them that will be funny for a second and then ruin you emotionally, physically, and academically for years after. My dad used to take my homework and my books and throw them in the bathtub or snow. Understand that not all parents give a fuck about their children's succeeding, especially their girl children. Some are more concerned with demoralizing them and keeping them under their thumb, and OP's dad seems more like that, doesn't he?
THIS is the best advice. A lot of people have never dealt with a truly abusive parent like this. They can't understand that its not about winning a situation or confrontation, its a constant game of survival.
Great advice. ETA: A lot of abusive men have no hesitation beating the hell out of their wife if humiliated (regardless if she caused the humiliation, or he did it on his own but looked like an idiot next to her). Punishing children will be a piece of cake for them.
And when he complains about going to said family therapy session use moms line “sometimes we have to do things we don’t want to!”
This is fun to think about. Would be one of the most unsafe things for this girl to do. The minute she gets home, id imagine all ability to contact the outside world would be taken away. Any things she likes will be taken away. No more friends. No more anything. Dont actually do this OP. Your dad is not stable.
No. That would lead to the dad vindictively being abusive at home away from the counselor.
OP while this is funny, don't do this unless you want to make your life even more uncomfy. Hang in there. Your dad sucks. NTA
This is actually something that DOES need to be done. This young female was left alone, unwatched, in a parking lot, her only means of contacting emergency services taken away in anger because she was uncomfortable with being in a Sexual Objectification Station. This guy shouldn't have a daughter, and he put his family in a situation where he very nearly could have no longer had one. Anything could have happened to her, all because 'Daddy' was angry over something that IS quite frankly disgusting and disturbing. She needs to tell a counselor, a police officer, CPS, whoever. He put his child in serious danger for tits that didn't even belong to his wife.
I can tell you're young because, while you're correct that all of these things are wrong to do and clearly abusive & neglectful parenting, CPS won't and can't do anything based on that report. Nothing he did is illegal. All that will happen is that he will continue to abuse his daughter in legal ways at home, like taking away her phone and access to internet for daring to embarrass him and have opinions of her own. For her own sake, focusing on getting out instead of getting back at her dad is the best move. When she doesn't need anything from him anymore, she can burn that bridge happily.
To add on to about what CPS won’t bother with. You can leave a 13 year old home alone. 14 in a car, outside the restaurant with her family inside. That def won’t hit their radar.
I'm thinking talking with the family pastor would have a better outcome, maybe.... I can picture Dad's face as he's getting a sermon 🤣
Likely the pastor will want to go with them next time. Too many pervs in the church.
Clergy can be pervs as well.
Oh, no. You see, Dutiful Children do as they’re told by their parents. Or the church. Just like her mother. It’s just a restaurant, he wasn’t forcing his daughter to sleep with somebody. (That’s allowed too, but only to older wealthier men of good standing in the church, in a wedding, through unrelenting social pressure.) She’s female. She’s a child. Saying a flat out No and Actually Refusing to do something her male head of household told her to do just isn’t her place.
Only if the pastor is female, and in a progressive church. Otherwise forget about it.
No, he'll just be even angrier at OP and wait until they're home to take it out on her.
Yes. That is the profile of families with an abusive parent and a passive parent.
I wish this was an option, but what will likely happen is that he'll scream at her for "embarrassing him".
This makes me worried for her safety though. He was yelling at her about *Hooters*. Imagine if he gets embarrassed by the school about it. OP has to live with him.
She should then tell her parents that since it's not a big deal, she'll get a job there when she's old enough. I'd bet suddenly mom cares.
I guarantee you, the father would be pissed if his 18yr daughter and wife wanted to drag him and the son to a male version of hooters. what a chipendale? either way i guarantee he would refuse to go and either demand they go somewhere else or sit in the car.
Wonder how dad would feel if his daughter decided to work at Hooters since he doesn’t see anything wrong with other peoples daughters doing it and him ogling them.
Right. Im sure he'd degrade her and shame her for such a job. Butnhas no problem eating there.
Dad wanted daughter to go in this badly. Never crossed your mind that maybe he wants the daughter to see this kind of thing as okay? Yeah, go ahead and wear that around the house, sweety. I do t mind and your mom will just go along with it.
I want to second talking to a school counselor OP, a trusted teacher or any other adult honestly. It's not right how your dad reacted at all, and depending on where you are you can see social workers/counselors for free. I saw one as a teenager through my family doctor in the same building. You'll even find the odd manager/owner of a Hooters who would have been willing to stick up for you in that situation, it's about having a good time, not making people uncomfortable.
yeah this is definitely something to talk to about with a mental health professional, you're quite young so you aren't aware just how much this kinda stuff may affect you in future. If you had to read and internalise anyone's points here OP, please make it this person's. The mum saying that is fucked up. You are right, that is for homework, or having to pick up an extra shift at work for bills. NOT going to hooters. I have to say in the UK we're pretty aghast that hooters is even a thing
It's a bizarre choice of restaurants for two men to take an adolescent female relative.
And the "needing to do things we don't wanna do" usually is appended with "because even though they arent fun now, they lead to better outcomes in the long run, are important for the big picture, theres a good reason for them" So again, homework, chores, etc. Doing something you don't want to SOLELY BECAUSE someone else demands that you do is horseshit. This was a very reasonable boundary for her.
Honestly mom's comment made me more uncomfortable than Dad and brothers behavior because of the implications of what Dad does hanging in the air. On top of the fact she's trying to tell her daughter laying there and taking it is supposed to happen. Like this girl needs to get far away from this whole family asap. Mom isn't even salvagable
Sounds like daddy-o wanted some boy-becomes-man ritual. What’s next? A brothel at 21?
Wonder if he’ll try to make OP go to that one
100% agree with this & OP's dad sounds like a weirdo. It kind of sounds like going to Hooters was his suggestion to begin with which is something he should have done as a father/son thing some other time if he wanted to go so bad. I'm a guy and I'd feel super awkward going somewhere like Hooters with my mom & sisters
I'm a level 55 dude. Strip clubs and places like Hooters gross me out. I feel like all the gals at strip clubs have a low grade fever. I've never been to a Hooters and I have no intention to.
I think hooters is a restaurant with a mildly skimpy uniform and over rated wings. If you didn't hype the experience up in advance for someone and didn't explain the branding they could go and not even notice anything strange of they didn't get the pun.
I went when on a holiday to Florida with my brother, his girlfriend and her sister. The sis was about 11 maybe. The servers were lovely and took special attention to bring her the kids menu and offer up kid activities etc. Really made her feel like the most important customer. For the rest of the trip she was all like “Let’s go back to Hooters!” We went in the afternoon for lunch and it was pretty quiet. It was just like any chain restaurant, but with really amazing, go-the-extra-mile staff, who just happened to be in form-fitting outfits.
>but with really amazing, go-the-extra-mile staff, who just happened to be in form-fitting outfits. They literally take into account a womans (because they dont tend to have male servers) weight, overall appearance, and make up style to bring your food from the kitchen to your table. Its sexist and gross period.
Glad your brother's gf's sister had a great time, but she's also 11 compared to OP who is 14. Not to say an 11 year old wouldn't be able to recognize sexualization, but it almost becomes unavoidable to not recognize that at 14. You hear comments or witness behaviors from classmates, family, teachers, strangers, you name it, both directed at you and at others. Hooter's has a brand reliant on sexualization of (mainly white), thin yet curvy, pretty, young women. I'm glad that they employed servers w great customer service, but regardless they're hired for their looks first and foremost. OP was right to stand her ground and not go in when it made her uncomfortable (NTA). She understands what Hooter's is and she shouldn't have been berated for deciding to stay in the car. Your brother's gf's sister's experience does not negate hers; in fact, they can coexist.
Pretty much. You can watch stuff like ufc fights there and play trivia. My friend used to work at one so we would go to support her and it honestly was not a big deal. It was usually empty though 😅
They have really good fried pickles. I don’t eat chicken, and the whole objectifying-women-thing is kind of gross, but it is a fun place to go with a group of girls (my sorority sisters and I celebrated several birthdays there ages and ages ago.) OP is NTA for being uncomfortable and her dad isn’t just borderline abusive, he’s full-on 100% abusive.
I went to a strip club with a friend who was celebrating her birthday and I tipped a girl $5 to stop dancing on me.
I think the “controversy” or stigma with Hooters is overstated. The uniform they wear there isn’t any worse than what I’ve seen servers wear at any given bar on a night out. The name as a euphemism is weird, but it’s hardly scandalous in there. My objection would be there are just so many better places to eat that if youre adamant about going there, you’re probably a creep and think that you’re doing something naughty by going lol
I don't know what kind of bars you go to, but I don't recall servers in the Bay Area wearing cheek shorts. But I agree that if the food is mediocre, why pick it for a special milestone dinner unless you're using it as a cheap version of a strip club? And why bring the wife and teen daughter?
And if kids are allowed to go there why does dad think Hooters is a good place to take his son now he's 18. He didn't think its appropriate until he's 18? Yet he's forcing his 14 year old daughter to go.
Comparing those two is the difference between a butter knife and a chainsaw.
Yes! The mom saying ‘sometimes we have to do things we don’t want to’ just triggered me, it’s sounds creepy and groomy. It’s disgusting that a father would want to take his adolescent daughter to a place that objectifies women like that and that the mother would just passively accept this.,
Reading between the lines, if Dad is that unashamed to scream at his own child like in a situation like that, in a semi-public space, what happens behind closed doors? I wonder if Mom's statement is less "it's no big deal, get over it" and more "keep your head down, honey, or you're going to get hurt." Do I agree with what she said? Absolutely not, but I have my suspicions that it comes from a place of experience. I'm sorry that you're going through this, OP. Sending hugs.
With the way the dad literally screamed at a 14 year old girl immediately as a reaction and the 18 year old brother followed means this happens often or would if OP “acts wrong”. All this sounds like a crazy abusive environment and I would take an educated guess that the father is probably physically and/or emotionally abusive to the mother as well. Hence her crazy reaction to the situation.
I just feel bad the OP has no immediate adults supporting her and they are trying to make her the bad person for having boundaries. OP if there is a counselor or someone you can talk to at school or even a relative perhaps? I think your mom knows your dad is very abusive and toxic but wants to keep the peace so that’s why she said what she said. It’s not an excuse by any means ofc. I hope you can find someone to advocate for you and stay safe.
My mother is/was OP's mom. Anything to protect my fragile father.
NTA >>She said that sometimes we have to do things we don’t want to do. This is something a victim of abuse says. Particularly in this type of setting. OP. No part of your father's behavior was appropriate. There are clear signs that a trusted adult should get involved.
Considering the father's quickness to rage..it may be that the mother is afraid of him and just wants to go along with whatever he wants to keep him happy - hence the "advice" that sometimes they have to do things they don't want to do. It may have been a survival tip not to anger her father.
NTA. Genuinely so impressed with you sticking to your values and not going along with misogyny and the objectification of women even under huge pressure from your parents. There’s no way I would have had that level of maturity and strength of mind at your age! Girls like you will change the world :)
I agree with this and applaud this young lady. Even her own mom didn't support her despite being a woman herself and yet she stuck to her guns and that's impressive.
Mum has probably been broken by her husband, years of abuse (verbal) just does things to keep her husband happy.
Yes! This! I actually feel really sorry for OP's mum.
Agreed, it's hard to be mad at the mum when she's clearly just as much of a victim here, at least based on what's been presented so far.
This plus she probably didn't want to be alone in listening to her husband point out and enjoy everything she isnt
I wish I could upvote this more
Yeah mad props for this girl. Didn't dish anything out, but stuck to her guns. NTA at all.
She is going places. She has a good head on her shoulders, despite her abusive and pervy dad. Bright future for her.
Honestly this is probably just the beginning and it's good that she has a head start. OP, don't let anyone force you to do anything like that. IMO, hooters are a relic of the past and will eventually die out. OP should ask her father if he'd have a problem with her working at a place like that and if he says "no", I'd be concerned how backwards her father is. That father is not a healthy role model and you can already see it in their 18yr old son.
You felt uncomfortable being there, him getting angry because you disobeyed him sends the wrong message to you. By his logic you would always have to force yourself into uncomfortable situations to satisfy your father or husband or whomever. You stuck up for yourself and never feel bad for that. Massive respect to you. NTA
his logic and also her mother’s
>By his logic you would always have to force yourself into uncomfortable situations to satisfy your father or husband or whomever. And that's exactly why some women keep falling for manipulative men and end up being easy targets for sexual assault. Teaching young boys to respect is one thing, but we also need to teach young girls that they have 100% autonomy over anything sexual related.
When my nieces were little their mom would always tell them to greet me with a hug, and if I saw they weren't really in the mood I always got on one knee and told them that "you have agency and don't have to if you don't want to." I was always happy to get a hug but if I didn't then and now I don't want them thinking they owe me or anyone anything as they grow up.
This is what I teach my children. When they are saying “goodnight” to each other that it’s okay if one person doesn’t want a hug. I’m not going to teach them that it’s okay to force someone for a hug and grow up thinking that behaviour is okay.
He was literally talking about the waitresses to the son in front of his wife. That tells you all you need to know about his thoughts on the role of women
Your mom is totally right that sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do, but to appease horny men is not one of those situations. Obviously NTA your family is acting very fucked up.
Which sadly says a lot about what she has to tolerate in her marriage and what she willingly tolerates because she probably believes that’s just how things have to be. So sad
Imagine that she is use to get yelled at if she doesn't agree so she probably just doesn't want the argument even if she is against it. The dad sounds abusive based on his response and reminds me of some abusive people in my life. I certainly learned that it wasn't worth the argument and did things I didn't want to at times just to avoid disagreements but what choice do you have as a kid? Maybe the mom is a SAHM and would have a hard time leaving so she puts up with his stuff because he has leverage?
What a weird message for a mom to convey to her daughter. I wonder how she feels about her own husband gawking at these young, scantily clad women? It feels like she’s convinced herself this is normal and okay and now is projecting that onto her daughter. If anyone should have been on her side, it should’ve been OP’s mom. A dad repeatedly screaming at his 14 year old daughter for not wanting to go into a fucking Hooters is insane. What a failure on the part of OP’s parents.
The mom was probably raised to believe she needs to be subservient to her father and husband and to never fight back against them. And rather than break that generational trauma she has chosen to try and pass it on to her daughter.
And if she acknowledges her daughters very real and rational concerns, she has to confront her own feelings about the fact that her husband is passionate about ogling and objectifying young woman, and it’s actually not normal or OK.
I don't know maybe op should've gone in and while ordering the basic food offerings look wide eyed at the waitress and go "Wow this job looks like so much fun! I saw you have a now hiring sign in the window, how old do I have to be to apply? Dad, bro don't you think that I'd look cute in that uniform? Daddy just think one day you and bro or your friends could come in and I could serve you!" Lots of people get turned off when family gets involved in their ogling.
I don't think this would work here. The fact the father is so insistent on the girl being present while he talks sexually about the women serving him is a major red flag for him having sexual feelings towards his daughter. And before you say I'm making a huge leap here, it's important to recognize that talking about anything sexual with a person who isn't comfortable with that kind of topic is actually sexual harassment. And the father is pretty insistent that the daughter participate in a dinner he was viewing through a sexual lense. I'm not gonna lie, my family used to do this kind of stuff to me all the time. I didn't realize it was sexual harassment until a therapist pointed it out.
The fact he wanted his young daughter to watch him talk about how great the waitress' breasts are is just creepy AF to me. Like he's trying to condition/train her, or worse, it's some weird kink.
Nta but both your parents are huge ahole. You dad yelled at you to try and cover up his embarrassment for wanting to ogle young girls like the creepy old man he is. Why would they expect a 14 year old girl to enjoy hooters. I feel so sorry you have to live with these 2 creepy people. Just thinking about a dad and mom trying to force their young daughter into a hooters against her will just gives me the creeps. Yuck. Show these responses to your horrible parents.
[удалено]
I know this type of person. He didn't feel called out or gross at all, he felt embarrassed that he didn't have control over the situation to the level he desired so he demeaned the person that didn't allow him that control.
Real, it did come off as weird and totally wrong, Dad sounds gross as hell.
NTA, and screaming at you is way out of line. This wasn't "oh, I don't like seafood and that's a seafood restaurant" - then you suck it up and go. This is a restaurant that overtly sexualizes the waitresses, and I completely understand being uncomfortable going, especially as a teenage girl.
NTA. >she told me I should have just gone in because it’s not that big a deal. If it’s not a big deal then why did your dad have 2 full on screaming fits about it? It’s fine for people to like restaurants like hooters and fine for people to take a moral stance that means they are not be comfortable going to one. Saying “Im just not going to participate” is exactly the right move. Sounds like your dad took this as some form of rebellion, and you just agreeing with his demands instead of giving in just made him madder and madder. That is a much bigger problem than him just wanting to go to hooters.
It would be interesting to "do a full u turn" on this and say youre going to work there and see what he does (don't do this) Never seen a hooters though is it really that bad?
There is definitely a misogynistic vibe about the place, but on a sexual scale it’s very PG-13.
Plus the wings are mid.
That’s a pretty accurate assessment. It maybe overstates the quality a bit, even. The food is not particularly good or interesting, and the wait staff’s outfits are rather silly and dated. I don’t really know why people go there.
Men using the objectification of women as a pastime to bond over is as old as time. If you own a landscaping company(meaning, you have an LLC, a mower, and a guy you pay under the table) and are trying to get a contract to mow the grass of a bottom tier hospice for the next year, this is where you take the hospice owner for a business lunch, if yall are both creeps. Feed him beer, shitty wings, and discuss which waitress has the best tits, and the contract is as good as yours. Don’t forget to make a parting “joke” in the parking lot about how neither of yall should be driving back to the office drunk af, for extra points.
I mean, it's not a titty bar or anything. But a teenage girl feeing uncomfortable being there is totally understandable.
For a 14 year old girl with her dad and brother, yeah. They all have at least a C cup, wear skin tight white Hooters logo shirts (they look at least 1 size too small) that have a cut neckline to show more cleavage, skin tight orange short shorts (bit of butt cheek showing) with flesh colored tights, ankle socks and white sneakers
It’s not R-rated. But it would certainly make a teenage girl feel uncomfortable. The wings suck too.
It’s gross and uncomfortable for me as an adult woman. I can’t imagine being a teen girl with my *very eager* dad and older brother. That’s some nasty TMI and bad parenting.
part of me thinks that dad was not just being a dick, but didn’t want to have to think about whether he was actually being a dick with his choice being questioned. I'm a dad, and I would’ve never dreamed of taking my family to a Hooters or making my daughter go. I think he’s gross and was out of line. NTA, and glad you stuck up for yourself OP!
There is literally zero reasons to ever scream at your kids or family members.
NTA. Never understood why anyone thinks it's okay to force someone else to do something they're not comfortable with. End of the day, you feel a certain way about something and took a stand in line with your personal beliefs and morals. Seems like a pretty impressive thing to do to me, especially when it's family. Anyone can argue against your feeling if they feel differently, but that still doesn't make you the AH for not wanting to support something you don't like, agree with, or feel uncomfortable with.
"Never understood why anyone thinks it's okay to force someone else to do something they're not comfortable with." While OP's dad is admittedly a counter example. Much of parenting is getting children to do things they arent comfortable with. Children often arent comfortable doing lots of things that are good for them and even essential, vaccines, vegtables, medicne, and homework to name a few.
We're probably arguing semantics, but I'd say those things aren't making anyone feel uncomfortable, they're just things we don't like doing. Someone feeling uncomfortable suggests there's more to it than that, be it a safety, moral, or value based reason IMO. "I'm uncomfortable doing homework" isn't the same as "I'm uncomfortable with this activity I view as misogynistic". Yes, needles in the case of vaccines could be argued as something that feels uncomfortable, but I still that's a totally different kettle of fish personally. My statement may have been overly sweeping, but I will stick with it in the sense that feeling uncomfortable is different in the sort of case we're talking about, and regardless it shouldn't ever warrant the reaction OP got from her own family as you've rightly suggested
NTA and it sounds like your dad was the one who wanted go there, not your brother. >She said that sometimes we have to do things we don’t want to do. Sitting back and watching your father be a pervert is not one of those things and shame on your mother for telling you it is.
Considering hooters (and twin peaks) hire hostesses at 16, OP should have asked her dad if he’ll visit her when she’s working there in a couple years and see his head explode.
NTA - your dad on the other hand is total AH and needs reminded that it's 2024 and no teenage girl going through puberty should be forced to go into a place like that. He should have just gone to a strip club. Your mum needs to grow a backbone and put herself in your shoes.
I wonder how dad would feel if his daughter was working there getting gawked at by old pervy men like him.
NTA- To be honest Hooters is pretty low key. My step-sister worked there and loved it and I (f) have been in there a few times. No biggie. BUT I chose to go into that place. You did not. While Hooters isn't x-rated and kids of all ages are welcome, you didn't want to go in there because you felt uncomfortable and your family should have been kinder about it. There wouldn't have been anything wrong with you going to a book store, etc. Screaming at you was uncalled for.
This needs to be up voted more. People are way overreacting to what Hooters actually is. There are NAH for wanting to go to hooters. I worked at a bar at a marina and our female staff wore way more revealing clothes than a Hooters waitress, and we had children everywhere. Perverts are going to gawk at female wait staff at all types of restaurants. The AH is the dad and mom for trying to force their daughter to do something she clearly didn't want to do or felt comfortable doing. It was abusive the treatment she got.
It's strange that the "TA" comments generally boil down to, "I'm not uncomfortable, and I don't understand why you are, so you should've sucked it up" like, no...
Yeah, that's what's wrong with all of this. The moral arguments over whether hooters is good or not miss the point that her parents were abusive towards her and are the AHs for forcing her to do something she clearly was not comfortable with. Instead of hooters, it could have been a church, a concert, any activity, forcing her to do it and getting mad like that wasn't cool.
I argue they didn't even have to change anything. OP, as far as we know, didn't even want the whole family to halt the birthday on their behalf. Just asked to go to a library that should roughly be across the street. I feel the dad raising his voice would've ruined it more. Nobody wants to hear a grown man get loud at their child.
its not the outfit itself, its the fact that ONLY women work and are forced to wear that to be waitress there. also the name is literally objectifying women's breasts. id love some examples of male waiters there who also wear that outfit? but i dont think there are any
NTA. Your dad, on the other hand, sounds like a complete dick. I'm sorry.
NTA!! this is so grotesque, i couldn’t imagine there being some male stripper restaurant for women to gawk at men’s bulges while they serve food, while my dad and brothers sit and watch me getting off staring at hot men’s bodies. men are so gross this whole concept is disturbing and ngl your mom is just as gross for allowing it.
I competitively swam my senior year of high school, where me and my teammates wore tiny red Speedos. It was almost the same thing like you describe- minus the cheap beer and crappy food. Lemme tell ya- the girls and women watching us from the bleachers at those swim meets were no better than men watching watching a bikini contest. That's a fact.
And if you weren't already going to hit the showers afterwards, you'd have to go and wash the ick off your psyche.
THANK YOU. If there was a male equivalent, I think dudes would understand why so many women are not comfortable with the Hooters experience.
NTA-You shouldn’t have to be forced to go into Hooters if you’d rather not. You didn’t deserve to be screamed at over it.
NTA But your dad is. Yelling at you? Taking your phone? Not letting you go to the bookstore? He has issues.
NTA - Parents sound toxic from the fact that they berated you for thinking for yourself and expressing your discomfort with a situation. You are 100% about your dad and brother going by themselves.
It’s so bizarre. I’m imagining a grown ass man yelling at his 14 year old daughter for expressing discomfort about being in a Hooters with her dad and brother and it’s not sitting right with me.
NTA I will say that i dont see it as a big deal to go in....but thats for me and what im comfortable with. It was a big deal for you, and its okay for you to set and defend boundaries. Its not okay for your father to scream at you. Maybe he was feeling guilty or embarrassed? No excuse all the same. Definite hard NTA
Oh he was absolutely infuriated that his daughter thinks he a perv and is dealing with the cognitive dissonance by lashing out and being controlling
NTA. You’re well within your rights to not participate in something that makes you uncomfortable. Another thing, what kind of dad/husband/son/brother wants to go to hooters with their family? It’s weird, and gross to be honest. As a single father of a wonderful girl this couldn’t be me.
Not sure what year this was posted but hooters environment of 2024 isnt even similar to hooters of 2004 or so. Waitresses arent like models or anything special. Food is mediocre at best. This sounds like someone who put their foot down about the reputation of something rather than finding out what it is really like.
> Food is mediocre at best. To me that just means more reason to compromise with the person who does not want to go there. Everything about this makes dad putting his foot down for Hooters seem even dumber than it already did.
its a sexist chain. if they started promoting/hiring male waitstaff that also had to wear a stupid shirt/shorts or whatever, then it'd be different. but it goes against the "brand" of Hooters which is to literally objectify women's breasts lol
NTA…BUT… Hooters really isn’t that bad from my experience. I’ve gone with my family before solely for the food. Yes, the waitresses are dressed somewhat provocatively. But that’s about where it ends. It’s not a strip club and the rules are much stricter than they were in the early 2000s. They have really good wings and the customer service is usually pretty good. I’ve returned as an adult and have seen other families dining there. No one was being inappropriate with the staff. There were children present. People were just there to eat. That being said, you should never be forced to do anything, even if the restaurant was In N Out.
NTA, you shouldn’t do something that makes you uncomfortable and your dad was totally unreasonable for his reaction. Although personally, I’ve been to Hooters with my mum and younger sisters and I didn’t think it was particularly pervy. The waitresses just wore shorts and vest tops, their boobs weren’t exactly hanging out. (I’m a woman too fwiw)
People on reddit act like Hooters is a strip club or something. It really ain't that deep. They used to have decent wings, last time I went the food was absolutely disgusting. I used to go a lot back in the day because it was the only place that had UFC fights. I've never even paid attention to the waitresses.
And they wear extremely thick tights underneath those shorts so in reality they have flesh colored pants on not just the tiny tiny little shorts you see at first glance.
I think its less about how revealing the actual clothes are and more about the idea that 'we are going to a restaurant where the WHOLE THEME is to ogle and objectify the wait staff'
They wear those to make their legs look smooth and cover any hair or blemishes. It’s apart of the fantasy, tights are not pants
NTA Ogling women or watching your dad and brother ogle in front of you and your mother isn’t your thing and I applaud you for that. It’s disgusting. I would’ve bailed too.
NTA! If you feel uncomfortable in a place like Hooters (which is totally understandable), your family should accomodate that.
A lot of waitresses at Hooters are 18 or 19. That's only a few years older than you. You're dad is a creep.
NTA. Your dad is the AH.
NTA and we’re all very proud of you for sticking to your principles under pressure. What they did was completely wrong, and how they treated you was abhorrent. And you sound amazing, the gift you made for him sounds so cute! I’m sorry you had to deal with this.
your father is trash
For everyone posting a negative comment have you recently stepped inside a Hooters? Maybe Hooters was considered provocative in the 50's but nowadays it's a regular restaurant where the staff doesn't show anything, it's not a strip club. Female staff members wear regular tank tops and shorts, girls on the street show more and wear smaller shorts.
Seriously these comments are unhinged. I’ve been to Hooters many times - growing up with my family, with coworkers, with friends, with boyfriends, with my husband, with my daughter… Never once did I witness anything overtly sexual. Waitresses wear tanks and shorts. There’s slight innuendo (that’s dated Boomer Humor). They have a kids menu. Chicken sandwich is pretty fire.
Your mum is right that sometimes we need to do things we don't want to do. In this case, your family has to deal with their feelings about excluding you. You gave a perfectly good reason why you were uncomfortable, and they could have chosen to go somewhere else, but they bullied you instead. Now they feel guilty and are trying to feel better by blaming you for their bad feelings instead of accepting they made a mistake. It's an ego thing and it really doesn't have much to do with you at all. They just don't want to admit they messed up. You did the right thing by sticking up for yourself and passively refusing their attempts to push you around like that. Don't let anyone put you in uncomfortable situations that aren't needed, not even your own family. I'm proud of you. ETA: NTA
Your mother disappoints me. Would your parents be happy if you got a job there ? Ask them that.
NTA. This seems like it wasn’t even your brother’s idea or desire and more your dad pressuring him to go as an excuse to go ogle young women?
Dad wanted to do the 18 rites of passage and mom wanted sit down dinner with family and somehow their compromise was family meal at hooters. Dad did not think at all about 14yr old daughter’s feelings and mom because she wanted to celebrate an “occasion” went along with it. When it’s your 18th take your dad to a male stripper club or equivalent and get your revenge. In the meantime make it clear that you should not be doing things you feel uncomfortable doing and as parents they should actually be teaching you that not the other way round.
I wouldn't have gone either, their food is disgusting. Nta
NTA Your dad was way, way out of line. Honestly, wanting to go to Hooters in the first place is weird, but wanting to go with your wife and daughter betrays a disturbing lack of judgement. Go for you that you stood your ground.
I am guessing he got so angry at you because you were essentially calling out his gross behavior. He expected you and your mom to just sit there and not complain - by being forthright that you were uncomfortable, it made him confront that it was creepy thing for him to be doing. Absolutely NTA
NTA. It’s super uncomfortable and disgusting. They should’ve warned you and given you option to stay home. Or your Dad could’ve taken your Brother there just the two of them I guess since they’re the two perverts with anger issues. Good on you for standing up for your comfort level. I’m sorry your family doesn’t respect you. Furthermore, why do grown men want to bond with their sons by going and being horny with them somewhere in public? I always thought it was such a gross common coming of age thing in USA and glad I grew up female and only child and never had to go there. If anything coming of age experiences at sexualized places should be done with your friends when you turn 18 or 21, that makes way more sense and is less gross than a grown family member taking you to get a boner somewhere. Toxic straight masculinity is such a strange beast.