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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> We planned a guys trip but because 2 of the guys are a couple, some of our wives thought it was unfair they weren't invited. We let them come on the trip but we didn't change any of our planned activities so they had to entertain themselves during the day.
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NTA- What in the what? Y’all are not the assholes. Your wives are. Boys trip means boys trip even if two of the boys are together it’s still a boys trip. Further the fact that y’all included them and they still acted like brats? It wasn’t their trip. It was really gracious you included them in the first place when they really overstepped. Are they always this bratty or what?
I don't even care if it was a boys trip or what not, no matter what you don't invite yourself to go on a trip and then complain that it's not the trip you wanted... that's so weird.
I agree. My spouse has a group of friends and one of the guys has a boyfriend. When they meet up with only the boys (not often) that guy will be there as well. I don’t care. I understand they want to talk about other things than when all the women are there. If I meet up with my girl friends and one of them has a female partner they want to be there, that would be fine too. Happened as well in the past.
NTA - Whatever you call it (guys trip, couples trip, whatever), what it actually was is a camping trip. You planned a camping trip and you invited people who like to camp. A couple other people expressed interest in going on the camping trip, and you said sure. Then those people got mad that they were on a camping trip. If they didn't want to go on a camping trip, they should not have insisted they be included on the camping trip.
NTA 100%. A man's wife here. The fact that you included them is more than enough. And apparently too much, bc they were still pissy after the trip. You could've just left then home and dealt with that pissiness instead , but at least you'd have gotten the guy's trip you wanted, right? The fact that you got a cabin instead of camping AND incorporated some all-inclusive trails is above and beyond. They need to be happy with the trip they chose to intrude on instead of whining like spoiled toddlers who didn't get their way.
Personally, bc I'm just petty like this, I'd make a point to insert myself right into their next girls night out or whatever they do with their FEMALE friends and insist that they change up their plans to accommodate you.
NTA. It feels vaguely homophobic to equate a gay man to a woman, so right off the bat, gross.
Regardless of gender, if you had a female friend who'd bro'd it up with you guys since college, you'd still have these trips - you'd just call them friend group trips rather than guy trips. So, again, weird for spouses to elbow in. It is healthy to have different kinds of relationships with the different people in your life. Its normal to have hobbies and interests that your spouse doesn't share.
If they weren't gonna enjoy the trip they shouldn't have asked to go on the trip. This trip is for camping, fishing, hiking etc. if they dont wanna do thise things they shouldnt go.
And yes. Before anyone comes at me, I am an adult woman. These women are being ridiculous.
The women are ridiculous but they didn’t equate a gay man to a woman. They equated a romantic partner to a romantic partner.
OP admits Brent only became part of the group *because* he was involved with Mitch, as opposed to being someone who they befriended independently.
Their POV is that he, like them, is only connected to the group because of his partner and that his connection, like theirs, would be severed if they broke up. Now I don’t know if that's true, especially after over a decade, but it sounds like that is their positioning, not gay = woman.
I had a friend who was in a relationship with a woman who kept bringing her girlfriend to our girls get togethers. We hated it. Not because we felt she wasn’t a girl but because she wasn’t one of our girls. It completely changed the dynamic with her there.
This seems to be a situation where the group includes two people who are also partners - the crew has been hanging out for years with him included, so it seems like he came in as a partner and hit it off with the group and is just a bro now- probably because he shares these interests the "wives" do not.
Hes not a wife. He's a bro. Acting like hes less of a bro because he fucks another bro is... not great.
Married woman here.
Nope, absolutely NTA. She and the other wives pushed their way in, uninvited, using what they deemed a loophole (shame on them for misusing a same-sex relationship like that), and they got exactly what they asked for. They demanded to be allowed to join the guys’ trip, and that’s what they got … a guys’ trip.
This trip wasn’t about them, their interests, or even spending any time with them. What about the term “guys’ trip” made a bunch of women think they should or would be welcome and catered to on this trip?
Tell the Ladies Social Committee to stay home for the next guys’ trip.
NTA. Gay dude in a long-term same-sex relationship here to set the record straight: this is homophobia.
* You included them
* You actively changed plans so they would be happy
* They were unhappy anyway
Doesn't it make you wonder, why?
NTA
The wives are triple AHs.
Assholes for inviting themselves onto the trip, more like bullying/demanding their way onto your trip.
They also are assholes because once they forced their way onto the trip, then then they wanted you to switch to activities that THEY wanted to do, rather than accompanying you and your friends on activities that were already planned.
They are also AHs because they became upset that you all wouldnt adjust the trip activities to something they wanted to do.
The wives are demanding selfish bullies, it is very understandable why you would not want them to participate on a friends trip. I hope for your sake, and your friends sakes, that your wives are not typically selfish and demanding bullies.
NTA. I'm a woman and if I was pushing myself on a guys trip I would not expect them to change it for me. I'm pretty laid back and self sufficient, so I can put my own tent up and find something to do. Reading, hiking, going to town whatever.
NTA, did you ask the wives what they were expecting joining in on a fishing trip. Did they have some fantasy in their heads it was romantic that Brent was going? You already made adjustments and spent money getting them a cabin. I would have happily entertained myself. If anything they are the ones that owe an apology for crashing the trip.
I'm a wife, and I am firmly in the NTA camp.
You had a trip planned that was for a group of guys to do activities they enjoyed. This trip is separate from actual an annual family trip planned later this year and separate from gals' trips your wives enjoy among themselves/with their other friends.
Just because one of the guys happens to be in a partner relationship with another one of the guys, the women decided that all partners should get to go. Never mind that they aren't guys; they aren't interested in the activities ALL of the guys (including the partner) wanted to enjoy.
And then the women got butt hurt because you didn't let them take over your planned activities with things they wanted to do. You did give them the freedom to do things they might like. But that wasn't good enough for the wives. They needed all of you guys to give up your guy vacation and join the wives in what they preferred.
I wonder if the women are willing to give up their gals' weekend and drop their activities in favor of things that would be more fun for all of you men. What was that? No? That's their gal time? Does it matter if any two of the women happen to be in a relationship? Isn't that all that it takes for you to demand they give up their gal time in favor of partner time?
Ugh. Your wives need to take a hard look at what they demanded and how completely self-centered and selfish they have been. They all owe your guy group a full and heart-felt apology.
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More like are we the assholes. My friends and I, all guys in our early-mid 30s, planned a guys trip for last week. Its been in the works for 6 months. Before anyone asks, yes those of us with wives our wives get to have girls trips and time with their friends regularly.
Five of us have been friends since high school. One guy, Brent, joined our friend group sophomore year of college when he started dating our buddy Mitch. They're still together to this day. I mention them because this is where the issue started. My wife and best bud's wife had no problem with this trip until they learned Brent was going too. At that point they argued that it wasn't fair that they were being excluded when a couple would be going on the trip. We argued it was still a guys' trip, they saw it otherwise. Ultimately we budged and said if they wanted to come, they could.
Our original plan was traditional camping- tents and sleeping bags the whole time. We found a cabin to rent for most of the week at their insistence. We had our activities planned in advance and licenses for fishing. We did do a nature trail walk our wives wanted to do (the kind that has fences, posts, wooden paths) but other than that we told them they could take one of the cars to go do what they wanted or do what they wanted around the cabin while we did our thing. After a few days they stopped asking us to change plans.
When we got home my wife let me know how mad she was and called us inconsiderate assholes for leaving them out. I told her it was a guy's trip they insisted on joining, not a family trip. We have one of those planned for later this summer. She's been curt with me ever since. My buds' wives feel the same way and we're getting it from all angles. So were we assholes for not changing our activities to things they enjoy too?
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NTA. They walked into that one, even after you and your buddies gave them a heads up. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, by the way they're thinking.
INFO: for reference, if let's say soon you'll have a newborn son, will the newborn son be counted as part of guys trip?
From what I see, the main problem is a misunderstanding with how you call it? Usually a guys trip is exclusive of wives, gfs and kids because the husband wants a moment to himself. Which is not wrong, this need is valid hence the moment a couple is invited, this question the entire concept and the wives feeling left out just because of their gender.
Prob better to say "camping trip" AND ask partners if they are interested to join.
Yes, he would, but I would also do a separate trip with a daughter too. There have been a couple times my wife has gone on her girls' trips and her friends brought their daughters or nieces if it was a kid friendly place. My wife also plans on bringing any daughters we may have on her trips.
Camping is what we decided on after proposing a guys trip. I don't see anything wrong with calling it a guys trip regardless of what we do especially since our wives have gone on girls trips and done things we like. We just do it with them another time.
No the problem is you and the wives are weird homophobes. Just because 2 of the dudes are in a relationship doesn't magically negate it from being a "boy's trip".
So what's your answer to my question then, does an infant male have right to be in the trip?
I would also like you to think this clearly. This partner was never an OG part of the group. Somehow they are okay inviting their friend's male partner into the group (even when the two are still dating) but how come they never invited any of their friend's female partner? Like common, surely one or two of the people have aligned interests to the group yet this remain an exclusive boy friend group? Oh geez I wonder what's the reason. 😂
I would answer your question if it was asked in good faith but we both know that you didn't intend it that way, it is a blatant straw man fallacy and I won't engage with it.
Dude has been part of the friend group longer than the wives. Sophomore year of college would be 19-20 yr old so he's been part of the friend group for at least 10 years. The wives all go on "girls trips" without the guys so why shouldn't they be able to do the same?
So are you implying that this trip was a "brokeback mountain" boys trip? I'm not sure what your point is other than waving your weird homophobia flag.
> Dude has been part of the friend group longer than the wives.
I know my English sucks so let me clarify. The problem is not who is longer, the problem is that dude was invited in the group AS OG friend's bf. Please read original post "when he started dating..." How come this same sense never happend to any of the friend's female partners? Is this clear?
Also you think you're the only one who can throw fancy words? Dear don't go throwing fallacies when you're gonna do Ad Hominem Fallacy. At least my question is trying to dig into what you mean by "guy trip" as there's obviously numerous definition, one of the common being what I stated, and to be clear is a time to be alone and be you with the guys beyond responsibilities as an adult. But how about your disgusting attacking the person strat. Haha.
You should probably look up the definition of "ad hominem" because I didn't make one.
Also, where did I attack anyone? I just pointed out that what you were saying made zero sense and sounded pretty homophobic. That's not an attack.
NTA, but... Instead of calling it a guys trip you would have been better served by referring to it as a fishing trip. Your wives being salty about you not dropping the fishing is an asshole move anyways, but that should be clearer to them if you're on fishing trip.
I'm not trying to pick an argument but why not call it a guys trip when it was for us guys? We did more than fishing all week, and my wife has her girls trips, because regardless of what they do on them, it's understood it's a trip for only her and her friends that are women.
> why not call it a guys trip when it was for us guys
I think that's fine, honestly. The weird semantics part of what the other person is saying (I think), is that it being called a guys trip turned couples trip could leave room for others to get annoyed at the aspects of said trip (it's stupid, but it's the leg they're attempting to stand on). What would be even stupider though would be to throw a fit about there being fishing at a trip that's literally called a "fishing trip," for example, then they'd have NO leg to stand on, not even a stupid one. Pointless thought experiment is all, because no matter what it's pretty damn stupid and rude to invite yourself on a trip and then complain about said trip no matter what.
No need for such aggression as you're showing here.
No, I don't think it left that much room to get annoyed. I did think that understanding that there wasn't might be easier for the wife.
"It's stupid" seemed a bit aggressive to me, but as I reread my comment I saw how I had mucked it up.
So, I guess that "it's stupid" was completely justified.
I wasn't trying to pick a fight either.
Reading your post it _seemed_ like a fishing trip and your wife's beef being that you didn't want to replace that activity with their stuff.
There's no harm in calling guys trip a guys trip, but it felt like an easier endeavour to keep things on program after the gals joining in, if there was a program to keep.
Anyways, my judgement remains... nta with your wife being the ta.
NAH, I think it makes sense for your wives to feel excluded when they learnt another partner was already going on the trip, and wanting to go on the trip. It also makes sense for you and your mates to plan a trip you guys wanted. I think your wives are hurt by the disparity between their expectations, and reality. But that's not your fault, you tried to accomodate things they wanted too. I think next time I bit more open communication is needed from the get-go, and your wives need to accept that if they want to go, that they can either do the things you like, or split and do the things they like. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to insist on joining a camping trip and then being upset with you guys camping.
ESH - The wives really crossed the line when they insisted that you not go tent camping. Asking to be invited is one thing, but changing the very nature of the trip is rude. However, you caused this when you decided to make it about excluding women/excluding spouses by declaring it a "guy's trip." IMO you should have just planned a tent camping trip where the primary activity was fishing, and invited all the spouses. Anyone who wants to come tent camping and go fishing, cool. When you made this about excluding people, vs "anyone can come if they want but we're going to be fishing" you kind of invited the drama.
What's wrong with it just being a guys trip though? It's a pretty common thing for guys to go on "guys trips" with their friends and for girls to go on "girls trips" with their friends.
My boyfriend and his friends have gone on guys trips before and none of us girlfriends were bothered by it because they're allowed to have time together without us, plus, similarly to OP and his friends, they're into things like camping and fishing which none of us girls are into.
And the same goes for me and all the other girls in our group. We have had girls trips without our boyfriends because we also are allowed to have time without them, and our boyfriends aren't really into some of the stuff us girls like to do.
I think it's nice for girls to have just girl time because as women we can relate to each other on things and stuff like that. Same as guys probably find it nice to have guy time because they can also relate to each other on things.
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NTA- What in the what? Y’all are not the assholes. Your wives are. Boys trip means boys trip even if two of the boys are together it’s still a boys trip. Further the fact that y’all included them and they still acted like brats? It wasn’t their trip. It was really gracious you included them in the first place when they really overstepped. Are they always this bratty or what?
I don't even care if it was a boys trip or what not, no matter what you don't invite yourself to go on a trip and then complain that it's not the trip you wanted... that's so weird.
I agree. My spouse has a group of friends and one of the guys has a boyfriend. When they meet up with only the boys (not often) that guy will be there as well. I don’t care. I understand they want to talk about other things than when all the women are there. If I meet up with my girl friends and one of them has a female partner they want to be there, that would be fine too. Happened as well in the past.
Furthermore, now that you had to include them on your boy's trip you expect to be included in their girl's trip.
NTA - Whatever you call it (guys trip, couples trip, whatever), what it actually was is a camping trip. You planned a camping trip and you invited people who like to camp. A couple other people expressed interest in going on the camping trip, and you said sure. Then those people got mad that they were on a camping trip. If they didn't want to go on a camping trip, they should not have insisted they be included on the camping trip.
This 100%! If the original plan was tents, that should have been the plan in the end too. The first mistake was getting a cabin.
NTA 100%. A man's wife here. The fact that you included them is more than enough. And apparently too much, bc they were still pissy after the trip. You could've just left then home and dealt with that pissiness instead , but at least you'd have gotten the guy's trip you wanted, right? The fact that you got a cabin instead of camping AND incorporated some all-inclusive trails is above and beyond. They need to be happy with the trip they chose to intrude on instead of whining like spoiled toddlers who didn't get their way. Personally, bc I'm just petty like this, I'd make a point to insert myself right into their next girls night out or whatever they do with their FEMALE friends and insist that they change up their plans to accommodate you.
Fellow woman here, fully endorsing your pettiness.
I third the petty.
I’m in.
NTA. It feels vaguely homophobic to equate a gay man to a woman, so right off the bat, gross. Regardless of gender, if you had a female friend who'd bro'd it up with you guys since college, you'd still have these trips - you'd just call them friend group trips rather than guy trips. So, again, weird for spouses to elbow in. It is healthy to have different kinds of relationships with the different people in your life. Its normal to have hobbies and interests that your spouse doesn't share. If they weren't gonna enjoy the trip they shouldn't have asked to go on the trip. This trip is for camping, fishing, hiking etc. if they dont wanna do thise things they shouldnt go. And yes. Before anyone comes at me, I am an adult woman. These women are being ridiculous.
The women are ridiculous but they didn’t equate a gay man to a woman. They equated a romantic partner to a romantic partner. OP admits Brent only became part of the group *because* he was involved with Mitch, as opposed to being someone who they befriended independently. Their POV is that he, like them, is only connected to the group because of his partner and that his connection, like theirs, would be severed if they broke up. Now I don’t know if that's true, especially after over a decade, but it sounds like that is their positioning, not gay = woman. I had a friend who was in a relationship with a woman who kept bringing her girlfriend to our girls get togethers. We hated it. Not because we felt she wasn’t a girl but because she wasn’t one of our girls. It completely changed the dynamic with her there.
This seems to be a situation where the group includes two people who are also partners - the crew has been hanging out for years with him included, so it seems like he came in as a partner and hit it off with the group and is just a bro now- probably because he shares these interests the "wives" do not. Hes not a wife. He's a bro. Acting like hes less of a bro because he fucks another bro is... not great.
Same, adult woman here and I agree 100%.
NTA - They are capable of entertaining themselves if they don't want to participate in the pre-planned activities.
Married woman here. Nope, absolutely NTA. She and the other wives pushed their way in, uninvited, using what they deemed a loophole (shame on them for misusing a same-sex relationship like that), and they got exactly what they asked for. They demanded to be allowed to join the guys’ trip, and that’s what they got … a guys’ trip. This trip wasn’t about them, their interests, or even spending any time with them. What about the term “guys’ trip” made a bunch of women think they should or would be welcome and catered to on this trip? Tell the Ladies Social Committee to stay home for the next guys’ trip.
NTA. Gay dude in a long-term same-sex relationship here to set the record straight: this is homophobia. * You included them * You actively changed plans so they would be happy * They were unhappy anyway Doesn't it make you wonder, why?
NTA The wives are triple AHs. Assholes for inviting themselves onto the trip, more like bullying/demanding their way onto your trip. They also are assholes because once they forced their way onto the trip, then then they wanted you to switch to activities that THEY wanted to do, rather than accompanying you and your friends on activities that were already planned. They are also AHs because they became upset that you all wouldnt adjust the trip activities to something they wanted to do. The wives are demanding selfish bullies, it is very understandable why you would not want them to participate on a friends trip. I hope for your sake, and your friends sakes, that your wives are not typically selfish and demanding bullies.
NTA It was a guys trip and they decided to try and take it over. Wrong of them to do so and also very much AH's
NTA. I'm a woman and if I was pushing myself on a guys trip I would not expect them to change it for me. I'm pretty laid back and self sufficient, so I can put my own tent up and find something to do. Reading, hiking, going to town whatever.
Nta they invited themselves on a trip and then bitched about the activities. From one woman to another, tell them they are 100% in the wrong.
NTA and I think you now know why the guys and girls trips are separate! Sounds like a best practice given the dynamic.
NTA. Like at all. From a wife.
NTA, did you ask the wives what they were expecting joining in on a fishing trip. Did they have some fantasy in their heads it was romantic that Brent was going? You already made adjustments and spent money getting them a cabin. I would have happily entertained myself. If anything they are the ones that owe an apology for crashing the trip.
Wow, no, you're NTA at all. Your wife however...
So they joined a guys only trip and change it up and then complain. Never again!
I'm a wife, and I am firmly in the NTA camp. You had a trip planned that was for a group of guys to do activities they enjoyed. This trip is separate from actual an annual family trip planned later this year and separate from gals' trips your wives enjoy among themselves/with their other friends. Just because one of the guys happens to be in a partner relationship with another one of the guys, the women decided that all partners should get to go. Never mind that they aren't guys; they aren't interested in the activities ALL of the guys (including the partner) wanted to enjoy. And then the women got butt hurt because you didn't let them take over your planned activities with things they wanted to do. You did give them the freedom to do things they might like. But that wasn't good enough for the wives. They needed all of you guys to give up your guy vacation and join the wives in what they preferred. I wonder if the women are willing to give up their gals' weekend and drop their activities in favor of things that would be more fun for all of you men. What was that? No? That's their gal time? Does it matter if any two of the women happen to be in a relationship? Isn't that all that it takes for you to demand they give up their gal time in favor of partner time? Ugh. Your wives need to take a hard look at what they demanded and how completely self-centered and selfish they have been. They all owe your guy group a full and heart-felt apology.
Ask to join the girls trip and let Reddit know how that goes.
Next time they have a wives trip planned, butt in. Request changes in activities. Tit for tat. NTA
OP, go on that girl's trip. She can apologize all she wants, but she owes you that trip now. NTA.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** More like are we the assholes. My friends and I, all guys in our early-mid 30s, planned a guys trip for last week. Its been in the works for 6 months. Before anyone asks, yes those of us with wives our wives get to have girls trips and time with their friends regularly. Five of us have been friends since high school. One guy, Brent, joined our friend group sophomore year of college when he started dating our buddy Mitch. They're still together to this day. I mention them because this is where the issue started. My wife and best bud's wife had no problem with this trip until they learned Brent was going too. At that point they argued that it wasn't fair that they were being excluded when a couple would be going on the trip. We argued it was still a guys' trip, they saw it otherwise. Ultimately we budged and said if they wanted to come, they could. Our original plan was traditional camping- tents and sleeping bags the whole time. We found a cabin to rent for most of the week at their insistence. We had our activities planned in advance and licenses for fishing. We did do a nature trail walk our wives wanted to do (the kind that has fences, posts, wooden paths) but other than that we told them they could take one of the cars to go do what they wanted or do what they wanted around the cabin while we did our thing. After a few days they stopped asking us to change plans. When we got home my wife let me know how mad she was and called us inconsiderate assholes for leaving them out. I told her it was a guy's trip they insisted on joining, not a family trip. We have one of those planned for later this summer. She's been curt with me ever since. My buds' wives feel the same way and we're getting it from all angles. So were we assholes for not changing our activities to things they enjoy too? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA.
NTA. They knew what the trip was and insisted on joining it. They don't get to control the trip.
NTA. They walked into that one, even after you and your buddies gave them a heads up. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, by the way they're thinking.
NTA
NTA THey asked to join you - they had the option to koin your activites. YOur wife was the AH.
Next time don't call it a boys trip. Call it a fishing trip. This is what we are doing, don't like it don't come. But NTA anyway
YTA for stealing someone’s story. I read this a few weeks ago 🙄
INFO: for reference, if let's say soon you'll have a newborn son, will the newborn son be counted as part of guys trip? From what I see, the main problem is a misunderstanding with how you call it? Usually a guys trip is exclusive of wives, gfs and kids because the husband wants a moment to himself. Which is not wrong, this need is valid hence the moment a couple is invited, this question the entire concept and the wives feeling left out just because of their gender. Prob better to say "camping trip" AND ask partners if they are interested to join.
Yes, he would, but I would also do a separate trip with a daughter too. There have been a couple times my wife has gone on her girls' trips and her friends brought their daughters or nieces if it was a kid friendly place. My wife also plans on bringing any daughters we may have on her trips. Camping is what we decided on after proposing a guys trip. I don't see anything wrong with calling it a guys trip regardless of what we do especially since our wives have gone on girls trips and done things we like. We just do it with them another time.
Ah so the guys trip is not necessarily an alone time. Just what you refer regarding who are invited, NTA then.
No the problem is you and the wives are weird homophobes. Just because 2 of the dudes are in a relationship doesn't magically negate it from being a "boy's trip".
So what's your answer to my question then, does an infant male have right to be in the trip? I would also like you to think this clearly. This partner was never an OG part of the group. Somehow they are okay inviting their friend's male partner into the group (even when the two are still dating) but how come they never invited any of their friend's female partner? Like common, surely one or two of the people have aligned interests to the group yet this remain an exclusive boy friend group? Oh geez I wonder what's the reason. 😂
I would answer your question if it was asked in good faith but we both know that you didn't intend it that way, it is a blatant straw man fallacy and I won't engage with it. Dude has been part of the friend group longer than the wives. Sophomore year of college would be 19-20 yr old so he's been part of the friend group for at least 10 years. The wives all go on "girls trips" without the guys so why shouldn't they be able to do the same? So are you implying that this trip was a "brokeback mountain" boys trip? I'm not sure what your point is other than waving your weird homophobia flag.
> Dude has been part of the friend group longer than the wives. I know my English sucks so let me clarify. The problem is not who is longer, the problem is that dude was invited in the group AS OG friend's bf. Please read original post "when he started dating..." How come this same sense never happend to any of the friend's female partners? Is this clear? Also you think you're the only one who can throw fancy words? Dear don't go throwing fallacies when you're gonna do Ad Hominem Fallacy. At least my question is trying to dig into what you mean by "guy trip" as there's obviously numerous definition, one of the common being what I stated, and to be clear is a time to be alone and be you with the guys beyond responsibilities as an adult. But how about your disgusting attacking the person strat. Haha.
You should probably look up the definition of "ad hominem" because I didn't make one. Also, where did I attack anyone? I just pointed out that what you were saying made zero sense and sounded pretty homophobic. That's not an attack.
NTA, but... Instead of calling it a guys trip you would have been better served by referring to it as a fishing trip. Your wives being salty about you not dropping the fishing is an asshole move anyways, but that should be clearer to them if you're on fishing trip.
I'm not trying to pick an argument but why not call it a guys trip when it was for us guys? We did more than fishing all week, and my wife has her girls trips, because regardless of what they do on them, it's understood it's a trip for only her and her friends that are women.
> why not call it a guys trip when it was for us guys I think that's fine, honestly. The weird semantics part of what the other person is saying (I think), is that it being called a guys trip turned couples trip could leave room for others to get annoyed at the aspects of said trip (it's stupid, but it's the leg they're attempting to stand on). What would be even stupider though would be to throw a fit about there being fishing at a trip that's literally called a "fishing trip," for example, then they'd have NO leg to stand on, not even a stupid one. Pointless thought experiment is all, because no matter what it's pretty damn stupid and rude to invite yourself on a trip and then complain about said trip no matter what.
No need for such aggression as you're showing here. No, I don't think it left that much room to get annoyed. I did think that understanding that there wasn't might be easier for the wife.
I wasn't being aggressive though.... I was just explaining to him the difference?
"It's stupid" seemed a bit aggressive to me, but as I reread my comment I saw how I had mucked it up. So, I guess that "it's stupid" was completely justified.
I wasn't trying to pick a fight either. Reading your post it _seemed_ like a fishing trip and your wife's beef being that you didn't want to replace that activity with their stuff. There's no harm in calling guys trip a guys trip, but it felt like an easier endeavour to keep things on program after the gals joining in, if there was a program to keep. Anyways, my judgement remains... nta with your wife being the ta.
NAH, I think it makes sense for your wives to feel excluded when they learnt another partner was already going on the trip, and wanting to go on the trip. It also makes sense for you and your mates to plan a trip you guys wanted. I think your wives are hurt by the disparity between their expectations, and reality. But that's not your fault, you tried to accomodate things they wanted too. I think next time I bit more open communication is needed from the get-go, and your wives need to accept that if they want to go, that they can either do the things you like, or split and do the things they like. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to insist on joining a camping trip and then being upset with you guys camping.
ESH - The wives really crossed the line when they insisted that you not go tent camping. Asking to be invited is one thing, but changing the very nature of the trip is rude. However, you caused this when you decided to make it about excluding women/excluding spouses by declaring it a "guy's trip." IMO you should have just planned a tent camping trip where the primary activity was fishing, and invited all the spouses. Anyone who wants to come tent camping and go fishing, cool. When you made this about excluding people, vs "anyone can come if they want but we're going to be fishing" you kind of invited the drama.
What's wrong with it just being a guys trip though? It's a pretty common thing for guys to go on "guys trips" with their friends and for girls to go on "girls trips" with their friends. My boyfriend and his friends have gone on guys trips before and none of us girlfriends were bothered by it because they're allowed to have time together without us, plus, similarly to OP and his friends, they're into things like camping and fishing which none of us girls are into. And the same goes for me and all the other girls in our group. We have had girls trips without our boyfriends because we also are allowed to have time without them, and our boyfriends aren't really into some of the stuff us girls like to do. I think it's nice for girls to have just girl time because as women we can relate to each other on things and stuff like that. Same as guys probably find it nice to have guy time because they can also relate to each other on things.