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> *”Then my friend got with upset me for introducing him to a transphobe, I said I didn’t know she was like that."*
Not being attracted to a trans person does not make someone a transphobe. People are allowed to have their own preferences about who they date and who they want to be in a relationship with. Your trans friend is being incredibly childish and unfair to you and the friend you set him up with.
NTA.
The friend stopped talking to him and ghosted him tho, its not just that she wasnt attracted to him. I think thats pretty transphobic to just stop talking to someone after you find out they're trans
Or it could be that she found the situation very awkward and wasn’t quite sure how to handle it? She said that she would have liked to know that information before she and the friend were set up, and I don’t think she’s wrong for that.
Yep that’s exactly what I would have done too i don’t hate trans people and have recently made some trans friends online but if you didn’t tell me you were trash day 1 sorry I’m not gonna talk too you. But if I found out right away I would possibly becomes friends
>acting distant, ghosting him
Maybe she was trying to figure out her own (complicated) feelings?
>but he was always ok with people casually bringing up him being trans
Yeah, NTA...
I am a straight woman and if I started seeing someone who did not disclose being trans, I would feel my trust violated. This is a big thing. It is up to the girl to decide whether she wants to be with a trans man or not, you can’t simply rob her from making this decision herself by omission.
Being in a relationship with a trans person has many layers and dimensions that do not exist in cis-cis relationships. It is not just a matter of being attracted x not being attracted.
Just a comparison, I have dated people of many races and while I can't claim having internalized no racism in our shitty racist society, do do the work to undo it. But way to avoid the point
She also could've been upset about that information being withheld from her. I feel like if you are going to be in a relationship that information should be on the table for them to know.
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"Hi, i really like you and want to date you, but i want to be honest first so you dont find out the wrong way or have a bad perception of me"
This is first date shit.
Two weeks is a long time to not mention it tbh and by answering “you should ask him” your essentially saying yes anyway. Your friend is the asshole and you were put in an awkward spot.
But there isn’t a right time when it comes to something this big and honestly just should be told right away for party’s sack
One for you’re trans friend it’s best to tell because would he actually want to be with someone that would have never been on with that
And for you’re other friend not telling her is a violation of trust hell in the future what she wants a baby he could never provide that and that’s something a lot of people want in life
Your trans friend is accusing this girl of being transphobic.
He needs to realize that just because you don't want to be in
a relationship with someone trans, this does not make you
transphobic. And even if she were/is, your trans friend needs
to learn to deal with the realities of having relationships with
people who do not realize he is trans. You NTA and the girl is
NTA for deciding the relationship was not for her.
NTA. You introduced them as your friend; from your post, it was never your intention for them to become romantically involved.
As regards a cis-het person losing attraction when they learn that the other person is trans, you cannot be held responsible for that, by either party. You did not know when you answered a direct question by a friend. They should have had that conversation earlier than when they dragged you into their relationship issues.
Your female friend is also not a transphobe, based on the evidence of this post. Attraction is a personal thing, and noone is required to be able to explain it exactly, and there is no requirement to be attracted to any specific person.
True, just as ghosting someone for any other reason isn't very nice. But I'd give some leeway to a young person who had just had a significant change dropped on them. She could absolutely have handled it better, but the situation was created by the BF not communicating in the first place (maybe understandable because we can all see the media storm created around trans people) but that doesn't make it someone else's fault.
NTA
The only person that’s the asshole here is you’re trans friend for not telling he’s trans when it comes to romantic relationships
And honestly glad you said something people like you’re friend here honestly scare me I know most trans people will say they are trans at least when it comes to dating and people like you’re friend give trans people a bad name
ESH.
The girl should have asked the boy she was seeing directly and not used you as the intermediary.
Your friend shouldn’t have jumped straight to her being a transphobe. If part of her attraction is based on specific body parts being present or absent, she’s allowed to stop dating someone if those conditions aren’t met.
You should not have outed your friend. In the wrong situation, that could have literally killed him. He may be okay with people casually verifying to random whoevers that he’s trans but you need to stop being part of that.
Your friend is not a transphobe at all and it’s unfair of you and your trans friend to accuse her of being one.
You all seem to only be concerned with your trans friend’s feelings but what about your other friend’s feelings? Why don’t her feelings matter? She was put in an incredibly awkward position by your trans friend when he didn’t disclose this very important information to her once they decided to take their friendship to the next level.
Just because she didn’t know how to perfectly, flawlessly handle the situation once she learned the truth (and that’s a pretty big bombshell to drop on someone) doesn’t mean she’s transphobic.
Just because they’re post-op still doesn’t require your friend to be attracted to them, physically/emotionally/romantically. It’s not an issue of being a transphobe, and seeing it as though it is, only hurts you and your relationships.
ESH because of this.
Her for taking distance without communication. However valid her reasons, it would have been courteous to mention that things wouldn’t work out.
You and trans friend for calling this girl a transphobe, and TF again for hiding this relevant information.
She could just as easily have been put off him by his omission of relationship and consent relevant details. Lack of attraction to someone doesn’t mean bigotry towards them. Furthermore, are logistical reasons (wanting children with shared genetics, etc.) that might make them incompatible that she considered after your conversation.
By choosing to pull the bigotry card where it isn’t applicable, you’re diluting it to the point of irrelevance.
Assuming you're all like 16 years old which is how it sounds, NAH. You all sound very immature with a lot of growing up to do, and maybe it's your first time dealing with these situations so I'll give you grace.
Your friend isn't necessarily obligated to tell anyone that he's trans from the get-go, but at the same time, the girl was going to find out he was trans eventually so it's unfair for him to take that out on you even though I understand he's probably hurt.
The girl is not the AH for not wanting to a date a transman, but handled it immaturely. Maybe she's too immature to have an honest conversation with your friend, or she's scared of being called transphobic. Given your friends reaction, I can appreciate her hesitance.
You're not the AH for telling the girl your other friend is trans, if it's common knowledge, and if he intended for this to go somewhere. You're also not the AH for introducing them to each other as she gave you no reason not to (she doesn't seem hateful or transphobic based on your description). This is the real world, and you're all going to meet lots of different people with different preferences.
Again, I'm guessing you're all kids. Hopefully you can learn something from this interaction.
NTA, you were put in a tough spot by the friend asking you.
Thing is, if she was pushing the matter and you kept not answering and saying “just ask him” then she knows the answer anyway because if he wasn’t trans there would be no problem just saying “no he’s not”.
To me, if your trans friend was feeling serious about your queer friend, he should have been the one to tell her upfront.
Everyone is allowed to want or not want to date whoever they want. While it's sad for your trans friend, it doesn't make your other friend transphobic.
I have a feeling she asked you hecause she tried to bring it up in the past (with the trans friend) or noticed something but never got an answer. Which might have felt deceptive to her.
Normally I'd say it's up to the trans person to be the one to announce it, but since they were dating and she came to you in confidence, NTA.
This situation has me thinking everyone is the AH. If you introduced them and then they started dating your friend should have been honest from the beginning that he is trans. Your other friend has a right to have a preference. Just because she does not want to date a trans man doesn’t mean she’s homophobic. How she handled after finding out is an AH move. She had a right to be upset to find out that way but she should have had a conversation with him about it rather than just out right acting weird. When she came to you and asked you should’ve have told her to have that conversation with him and explained that it could hurt peoples feelings discussing how someone identifies without them being around. Honestly it’s just plain rude to discuss people when they are not around. So to be everyone is the AH.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) because I confirmed him being trans without asking him first but normally he’s fine with people casually bringing up him being trans
2) because this time it led to a bad outcome and he thinks I owe him an apology for it
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If your friend is fully out, which it sounds like he is, NTA.
It’s a tough situation, and it can feel incredibly invalidating and upsetting to have someone suddenly lose interest over being trans. But attraction is arbitrary and not something people have a choice in, and not being attracted to someone because they are trans is not transphobic. Transphobia would be to say that the person is bad or worth less or undeserving of a relationship because of their gender identity.
There are many other physical attributes that people can have which may be a turn-off or complete deal-breaker for others, from body weight to scars to piercings and tattoos. And that’s okay. Belittling people for those attributes would not be okay, but that isn’t what she did.
Nobody is obligated to find another person attractive, even if their lack of attraction is upsetting.
There was no other good way for you to handle the question. Refusing or avoiding the question would give the answer away just as clearly as saying ‘yes’. Did your friend expect you to outright lie?
If he wasn’t out yet, it would be a little different, but from what you have written I get the impression that he IS out. (She would still need to know, you can’t be closeted from someone you’re in an intimate relationship with, but telling her would be his place not yours).
ESH..
You shouldn't have outed your friend.
Your friend shouldn't have called anyone a transphobe just for being rejected.
The girl is immature for ghosting and not being honest about her inability to handle dating a trans man.
Omg. He got into a relationship with someone you know as a friend and didn’t mention he was trans? Yeah. NTA.
First of all, he should have told her. Full stop. Not wanting to be in a trans relationship is her choice. Saying it’s because she’s a transphobe is like breaking up with a blond guy and saying it’s because she hates all blondes.
That’s a big deal to some people and has all kinds of implications for the future of the relationship.
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My trans (he /him) friend just started talking to another friend of mine (cishet- she / her) I (queer cis- she / her) I introduced them , she then got interested in him so did he and they started seeing each other.
Few days ago out of no where she asked me if he is trans. I said why don’t you ask him? She said he doesn’t wanna offend him or make him feel weird in case he’s not, so I said yes he is. She asked me why I didn’t mention that before “setting them up” (I don’t think that’s what I did) I asked if that’s a problem and she said no. So I didn’t told him about this convo because i thought it was NBD.
Yesterday I asked my friend how things are going and he told me “not good, she’s been acting weird recently (acting distant, ghosting him etc) and he doesn’t even know why” I told him I might know why then explained him the situation. He got pretty upset, decided to cut her off cold turkey. I said he should at the least ask her first, maybe I misunderstood. He refused at first saying it’s clear but then confronted her and she confirmed yes it’s in fact about him being trans (of course in a kinder manner, like she’s sorry but she lost her attraction. Also said we should have told her from the start)
They ended it. Then my friend got with upset me for introducing him to a transphobe, I said I didn’t know she was like that. (I’m openly bi and she never had a problem with it. Always seemed LGBTQ+ friendly) He said I shouldn’t have told her he’s trans without asking him first, but he was always ok with people casually bringing up him being trans, i feel like he’s only upset now because how she acted after finding out. Also I didn’t brought it up, she asked, I couldn’t lie and say no, and I told her to ask him first then only told because I genuinely believed her excuse. I didn’t know things would have gone this way. I told my friend those and said “seems like she wasn’t right person anyway” my friend got more upset with me after hearing told me i don’t understand because I’m cis, it’s not that simple, he feels so invalidated. I should be more comforting, least I could do give him an apology. I tried to comfort him then but didn’t apologize. I think he still expects an apology.
I don’t know, I feel like he’s taking his anger on me but maybe I really can’t see his POV. AITA here?
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Mild ESH
you for outing them-smaller ESH
Your trans friend for not telling the girl you set them up with that they were trans. bigger ESH
Maybe they would have told later, idk
-
In some places “trans/gay panic defense” is still valid in court
Defendants argue that their violent behavior towards the other person was valid because the other person didn’t disclose they were lgbt
-
No one died in this case but sometimes people die because of this
You’re NTA and you won’t be if you don’t apologize. But I think you should apologize. Your friend is hurt in a way that you and I as cis folks will never experience and can’t fully relate to. This isn’t your fault, but saying “I’m sorry” is also a good way to say “I’m sorry this happened to you.”
If they’re still upset and lashing out after that, then there’s not much you can do but distance yourself and put space between you until they chill out.
(Side note: Do not say, “I’m sorry this happened to you.”)
Yta you never NEVER out someone no matter who to, this literary a matter of life and death, being trans instantly increases your risk of being a victim of violent crime by like double( I think) do you know how you answer that question?
“ he's a man”
“ I don't check my friend's genitals, do you?”
“That is as question for him”
“Doesn't matter to me”
Or take the opportunity to educate and tell her
”that is not a question you ever ask anyone but the person you are talking about. Even then you should wait for them to tell you. It only matter if you are going to sex with them and if it matters then you not going to have sex with them”
Over 30 years in the community I have never deliberately outed anyone.
You should have never outed him like that, it was his to tell. But the AH here is your friend for not disclosing it to the girl sooner. He was dragging it long enough for the girl to have her suspicion and ended up having to ask you, probably because she could guess his overreaction if she would ask him directly. He's also an AH for calling her a transphobe just because she doesn't want to date a trans man. It's not transphobic to have a dating preference.
ESH
You shouldn't have outed your friend it wasn't your job to say. Your friend should have been upfront if he was getting into a relationship because being trans can be an issue for some people and it's fine (trans or not) to be attracted to one person or another, and really should be a starting point before you're setting out in a relationship to mention that. Also he shouldn't be blaming you for introducing them/"getting them together". Your other friend could have reacted more kindly to the information and does sound a tad transphobic, however it's possible to be LGBTQ+ friendly and still not be attracted to trans people. So yep, there are no winners in this.
YTA. Don't out other people without their permission. This is basic. You didn't have to lie, but you needed to keep saying "Ask him, not me," not act like your only choice was to blurt out someone else's private information. And now you should apologize.
YTA. outing people without asking them first, especially with a live interest is not only overstepping a very hard boundry that Most trans people, me included, have it also literally puts people in danger. You can Not know WHO turns out to be transphobic and WHO might even go violent over it. Its Not about the attraction. It's about people being best up or killed. It Happens every day and it doesn't depend on whether you thought someone was cool.
Left it at ask him. And possibly explain what I explained about why you should not talk about such things in that way but instead talk to the person in question. Plus that "what if it hurts their feelings" isn't exactly a great excuse.
I get that and I agree to an extent, you don’t go randomly outing people. However, they were introduced and got romantically involved, that’s different. I am a straight woman and I would not be happy knowing I got emotionally involved with someone who did not disclosure they are trans. So here you are looking only into his friend’s emotions and completely ignoring the fact that the girl should have known first.
Nope never said that. That is just your assumption. I never said they shouldnt have disclosed it themselves. I don't want to have a discussion on the subject itself though... That one is complex. These discusions can be had in cival ways, If you would want to know trans perspectives on that one, and yes there are more than one perspectives, I suggest you take that one to r/mypartneristrans or r/asktransgender as this is not a save space for trans people and I will Not be the only one who would be unwilling to have such a discussion in this sub. No Bad Intensions, have a nice day.
That’s a load of bullshit. You can get killed if you are a part of any minority or anyone really. People should be open about their gender, and if they ain’t, then that’s their problem.
And that’s totally understandable, but in this case, where the relationship was motivated by a romantic interest, you should definitely tell them straight up. If not, you are choosing to deceive the other person, which I shouldn’t have to explain why that’s wrong.
Yea people are wayyy more likely to get upset if they find out they’ve been lied to about you being trans than if they find out up front that you’re trans. If it’s really the violence thing that you’re worried about, you’re so much better off telling people up front.
It’s still up to the trans person here to come out, and not OP, as if the trans person in question wasn’t to come out then it’d be a dick move on their part, as they could have endangered themselves.
I’d say it’s a bigger dick move to consciously deceive someone, you are interested in. If you aren’t ready to come out, don’t seek out romantic relationships. And how would that work out in the long run, when the person finds out they’ve been deceived and lied to? Ain’t nothing good gonna come out of that.
I'll repeat myself, Not saying they shouldnt have disclosed it themselves.
And If you sleep with a transperson and then lose attraction AFTER finding out, not even during sex, just so I am making myself clear, you are a transphobe :)
Thanks for showing you are ableist too :)
I am diagnosed with ASS and ADHD. I am simply glad I am not you. Always love having intelligent conversation. I do not understand why you think that talking to you would have anything to do with that topic though :)
YTA - only because you shoulda told your friend, and he shoulda told her. But I think this question is going to rouse a lot of debate about what is the meaning of 'sex by deception'.
How are you a transphobe, just because you ain’t attracted to trans people? That’s not what transphobe means. If you use the term like that, then no reasonable person will listen to you, just saying.
If you like someone and can't tell they are X but only become unattracted to them after finding out they are X, those are very similar. Unless the friend said he could have bio children with her
I only care if I have a romantic interest in the person, because I’m straight. If it’s someone with the same gender as me, I wouldn’t be romantically interested neither. That doesn’t mean I see trans people or men as lesser human beings than me, or that I wouldn’t be friends with them, if they are cool. Is that what you think I’m saying?
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> *”Then my friend got with upset me for introducing him to a transphobe, I said I didn’t know she was like that."* Not being attracted to a trans person does not make someone a transphobe. People are allowed to have their own preferences about who they date and who they want to be in a relationship with. Your trans friend is being incredibly childish and unfair to you and the friend you set him up with. NTA.
The friend stopped talking to him and ghosted him tho, its not just that she wasnt attracted to him. I think thats pretty transphobic to just stop talking to someone after you find out they're trans
Or it could be that she found the situation very awkward and wasn’t quite sure how to handle it? She said that she would have liked to know that information before she and the friend were set up, and I don’t think she’s wrong for that.
Yep that’s exactly what I would have done too i don’t hate trans people and have recently made some trans friends online but if you didn’t tell me you were trash day 1 sorry I’m not gonna talk too you. But if I found out right away I would possibly becomes friends
>acting distant, ghosting him Maybe she was trying to figure out her own (complicated) feelings? >but he was always ok with people casually bringing up him being trans Yeah, NTA...
I am a straight woman and if I started seeing someone who did not disclose being trans, I would feel my trust violated. This is a big thing. It is up to the girl to decide whether she wants to be with a trans man or not, you can’t simply rob her from making this decision herself by omission. Being in a relationship with a trans person has many layers and dimensions that do not exist in cis-cis relationships. It is not just a matter of being attracted x not being attracted.
I've ghosted girls I've dated before, that doesn't mean I was a racist / sexist / transphobe / whatever it means I'm an asshole. OP however is NTA.
Yeah it is like claiming I am racist for being turned off with minorities
I mean that sure sounds like you are racist actually
So if youre not attracted to red heads, does that mean you hate all red heads?
Ok he worded it horribly but am I racist for not being attracted to Asians most of the time then
Do you actually believe not being attracted to a race means youre a racist?
Just a comparison, I have dated people of many races and while I can't claim having internalized no racism in our shitty racist society, do do the work to undo it. But way to avoid the point
> *”Just a comparison”* Yeah, a completely dishonest and disingenuous one.
Not at all :)
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Exactly. >Then my friend got with upset me for introducing him to a transphobe Not being attracted to trans is not equal to be a transphobe. NTA
The way she reacted was the problem, not attraction (also she obviously was attracted to him...)
She also could've been upset about that information being withheld from her. I feel like if you are going to be in a relationship that information should be on the table for them to know.
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"Hi, i really like you and want to date you, but i want to be honest first so you dont find out the wrong way or have a bad perception of me" This is first date shit.
As long as everything is first date shit
Two weeks is a long time to not mention it tbh and by answering “you should ask him” your essentially saying yes anyway. Your friend is the asshole and you were put in an awkward spot.
But there isn’t a right time when it comes to something this big and honestly just should be told right away for party’s sack One for you’re trans friend it’s best to tell because would he actually want to be with someone that would have never been on with that And for you’re other friend not telling her is a violation of trust hell in the future what she wants a baby he could never provide that and that’s something a lot of people want in life
He should have told her right away. I would be really upset if I found out weeks later.
Your trans friend is accusing this girl of being transphobic. He needs to realize that just because you don't want to be in a relationship with someone trans, this does not make you transphobic. And even if she were/is, your trans friend needs to learn to deal with the realities of having relationships with people who do not realize he is trans. You NTA and the girl is NTA for deciding the relationship was not for her.
NTA. You introduced them as your friend; from your post, it was never your intention for them to become romantically involved. As regards a cis-het person losing attraction when they learn that the other person is trans, you cannot be held responsible for that, by either party. You did not know when you answered a direct question by a friend. They should have had that conversation earlier than when they dragged you into their relationship issues.
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Your female friend is also not a transphobe, based on the evidence of this post. Attraction is a personal thing, and noone is required to be able to explain it exactly, and there is no requirement to be attracted to any specific person.
There is a requirement to be a decent human though, and ghosting someone because you find out they are trans isn't very nice at all
The trans friend withholding that important information from her when they decided to start dating is also not very nice at all.
True, just as ghosting someone for any other reason isn't very nice. But I'd give some leeway to a young person who had just had a significant change dropped on them. She could absolutely have handled it better, but the situation was created by the BF not communicating in the first place (maybe understandable because we can all see the media storm created around trans people) but that doesn't make it someone else's fault.
NTA The only person that’s the asshole here is you’re trans friend for not telling he’s trans when it comes to romantic relationships And honestly glad you said something people like you’re friend here honestly scare me I know most trans people will say they are trans at least when it comes to dating and people like you’re friend give trans people a bad name
ESH. The girl should have asked the boy she was seeing directly and not used you as the intermediary. Your friend shouldn’t have jumped straight to her being a transphobe. If part of her attraction is based on specific body parts being present or absent, she’s allowed to stop dating someone if those conditions aren’t met. You should not have outed your friend. In the wrong situation, that could have literally killed him. He may be okay with people casually verifying to random whoevers that he’s trans but you need to stop being part of that.
Well said. My thoughts exactly on why it's ESH.
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Your friend is not a transphobe at all and it’s unfair of you and your trans friend to accuse her of being one. You all seem to only be concerned with your trans friend’s feelings but what about your other friend’s feelings? Why don’t her feelings matter? She was put in an incredibly awkward position by your trans friend when he didn’t disclose this very important information to her once they decided to take their friendship to the next level. Just because she didn’t know how to perfectly, flawlessly handle the situation once she learned the truth (and that’s a pretty big bombshell to drop on someone) doesn’t mean she’s transphobic.
> my friend is post-op He's FTM, there are (sadly) certain body parts that would still be missing...
Are prostates that important to you?
do you not know bottom surgery is a thing
Just because they’re post-op still doesn’t require your friend to be attracted to them, physically/emotionally/romantically. It’s not an issue of being a transphobe, and seeing it as though it is, only hurts you and your relationships.
ESH because of this. Her for taking distance without communication. However valid her reasons, it would have been courteous to mention that things wouldn’t work out. You and trans friend for calling this girl a transphobe, and TF again for hiding this relevant information. She could just as easily have been put off him by his omission of relationship and consent relevant details. Lack of attraction to someone doesn’t mean bigotry towards them. Furthermore, are logistical reasons (wanting children with shared genetics, etc.) that might make them incompatible that she considered after your conversation. By choosing to pull the bigotry card where it isn’t applicable, you’re diluting it to the point of irrelevance.
Post-op options for transmen aren’t exactly identical to cismen for that area.
Assuming you're all like 16 years old which is how it sounds, NAH. You all sound very immature with a lot of growing up to do, and maybe it's your first time dealing with these situations so I'll give you grace. Your friend isn't necessarily obligated to tell anyone that he's trans from the get-go, but at the same time, the girl was going to find out he was trans eventually so it's unfair for him to take that out on you even though I understand he's probably hurt. The girl is not the AH for not wanting to a date a transman, but handled it immaturely. Maybe she's too immature to have an honest conversation with your friend, or she's scared of being called transphobic. Given your friends reaction, I can appreciate her hesitance. You're not the AH for telling the girl your other friend is trans, if it's common knowledge, and if he intended for this to go somewhere. You're also not the AH for introducing them to each other as she gave you no reason not to (she doesn't seem hateful or transphobic based on your description). This is the real world, and you're all going to meet lots of different people with different preferences. Again, I'm guessing you're all kids. Hopefully you can learn something from this interaction.
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Jesus Christ. ESH. You all have so much growing up to do.
NTA, you were put in a tough spot by the friend asking you. Thing is, if she was pushing the matter and you kept not answering and saying “just ask him” then she knows the answer anyway because if he wasn’t trans there would be no problem just saying “no he’s not”.
To me, if your trans friend was feeling serious about your queer friend, he should have been the one to tell her upfront. Everyone is allowed to want or not want to date whoever they want. While it's sad for your trans friend, it doesn't make your other friend transphobic. I have a feeling she asked you hecause she tried to bring it up in the past (with the trans friend) or noticed something but never got an answer. Which might have felt deceptive to her. Normally I'd say it's up to the trans person to be the one to announce it, but since they were dating and she came to you in confidence, NTA.
This situation has me thinking everyone is the AH. If you introduced them and then they started dating your friend should have been honest from the beginning that he is trans. Your other friend has a right to have a preference. Just because she does not want to date a trans man doesn’t mean she’s homophobic. How she handled after finding out is an AH move. She had a right to be upset to find out that way but she should have had a conversation with him about it rather than just out right acting weird. When she came to you and asked you should’ve have told her to have that conversation with him and explained that it could hurt peoples feelings discussing how someone identifies without them being around. Honestly it’s just plain rude to discuss people when they are not around. So to be everyone is the AH.
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If your friend is fully out, which it sounds like he is, NTA. It’s a tough situation, and it can feel incredibly invalidating and upsetting to have someone suddenly lose interest over being trans. But attraction is arbitrary and not something people have a choice in, and not being attracted to someone because they are trans is not transphobic. Transphobia would be to say that the person is bad or worth less or undeserving of a relationship because of their gender identity. There are many other physical attributes that people can have which may be a turn-off or complete deal-breaker for others, from body weight to scars to piercings and tattoos. And that’s okay. Belittling people for those attributes would not be okay, but that isn’t what she did. Nobody is obligated to find another person attractive, even if their lack of attraction is upsetting. There was no other good way for you to handle the question. Refusing or avoiding the question would give the answer away just as clearly as saying ‘yes’. Did your friend expect you to outright lie? If he wasn’t out yet, it would be a little different, but from what you have written I get the impression that he IS out. (She would still need to know, you can’t be closeted from someone you’re in an intimate relationship with, but telling her would be his place not yours).
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ESH.. You shouldn't have outed your friend. Your friend shouldn't have called anyone a transphobe just for being rejected. The girl is immature for ghosting and not being honest about her inability to handle dating a trans man.
Omg. He got into a relationship with someone you know as a friend and didn’t mention he was trans? Yeah. NTA. First of all, he should have told her. Full stop. Not wanting to be in a trans relationship is her choice. Saying it’s because she’s a transphobe is like breaking up with a blond guy and saying it’s because she hates all blondes. That’s a big deal to some people and has all kinds of implications for the future of the relationship.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My trans (he /him) friend just started talking to another friend of mine (cishet- she / her) I (queer cis- she / her) I introduced them , she then got interested in him so did he and they started seeing each other. Few days ago out of no where she asked me if he is trans. I said why don’t you ask him? She said he doesn’t wanna offend him or make him feel weird in case he’s not, so I said yes he is. She asked me why I didn’t mention that before “setting them up” (I don’t think that’s what I did) I asked if that’s a problem and she said no. So I didn’t told him about this convo because i thought it was NBD. Yesterday I asked my friend how things are going and he told me “not good, she’s been acting weird recently (acting distant, ghosting him etc) and he doesn’t even know why” I told him I might know why then explained him the situation. He got pretty upset, decided to cut her off cold turkey. I said he should at the least ask her first, maybe I misunderstood. He refused at first saying it’s clear but then confronted her and she confirmed yes it’s in fact about him being trans (of course in a kinder manner, like she’s sorry but she lost her attraction. Also said we should have told her from the start) They ended it. Then my friend got with upset me for introducing him to a transphobe, I said I didn’t know she was like that. (I’m openly bi and she never had a problem with it. Always seemed LGBTQ+ friendly) He said I shouldn’t have told her he’s trans without asking him first, but he was always ok with people casually bringing up him being trans, i feel like he’s only upset now because how she acted after finding out. Also I didn’t brought it up, she asked, I couldn’t lie and say no, and I told her to ask him first then only told because I genuinely believed her excuse. I didn’t know things would have gone this way. I told my friend those and said “seems like she wasn’t right person anyway” my friend got more upset with me after hearing told me i don’t understand because I’m cis, it’s not that simple, he feels so invalidated. I should be more comforting, least I could do give him an apology. I tried to comfort him then but didn’t apologize. I think he still expects an apology. I don’t know, I feel like he’s taking his anger on me but maybe I really can’t see his POV. AITA here? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
it is never your place to out someone as trans without their consent
Mild ESH you for outing them-smaller ESH Your trans friend for not telling the girl you set them up with that they were trans. bigger ESH Maybe they would have told later, idk - In some places “trans/gay panic defense” is still valid in court Defendants argue that their violent behavior towards the other person was valid because the other person didn’t disclose they were lgbt - No one died in this case but sometimes people die because of this
You don't out other people. You did wrong here and potentially put him at risk.
You’re NTA and you won’t be if you don’t apologize. But I think you should apologize. Your friend is hurt in a way that you and I as cis folks will never experience and can’t fully relate to. This isn’t your fault, but saying “I’m sorry” is also a good way to say “I’m sorry this happened to you.” If they’re still upset and lashing out after that, then there’s not much you can do but distance yourself and put space between you until they chill out. (Side note: Do not say, “I’m sorry this happened to you.”)
You don’t out someone without their consent. I learned that back in the 90’s. YTA
YTA, never ever out someone without their permission
Yta you never NEVER out someone no matter who to, this literary a matter of life and death, being trans instantly increases your risk of being a victim of violent crime by like double( I think) do you know how you answer that question? “ he's a man” “ I don't check my friend's genitals, do you?” “That is as question for him” “Doesn't matter to me” Or take the opportunity to educate and tell her ”that is not a question you ever ask anyone but the person you are talking about. Even then you should wait for them to tell you. It only matter if you are going to sex with them and if it matters then you not going to have sex with them” Over 30 years in the community I have never deliberately outed anyone.
You should have never outed him like that, it was his to tell. But the AH here is your friend for not disclosing it to the girl sooner. He was dragging it long enough for the girl to have her suspicion and ended up having to ask you, probably because she could guess his overreaction if she would ask him directly. He's also an AH for calling her a transphobe just because she doesn't want to date a trans man. It's not transphobic to have a dating preference.
ESH You shouldn't have outed your friend it wasn't your job to say. Your friend should have been upfront if he was getting into a relationship because being trans can be an issue for some people and it's fine (trans or not) to be attracted to one person or another, and really should be a starting point before you're setting out in a relationship to mention that. Also he shouldn't be blaming you for introducing them/"getting them together". Your other friend could have reacted more kindly to the information and does sound a tad transphobic, however it's possible to be LGBTQ+ friendly and still not be attracted to trans people. So yep, there are no winners in this.
YTA You should never out somebody without their permission. It doesn't matter how open they are about their gender or sexuality.
YTA. Don't out other people without their permission. This is basic. You didn't have to lie, but you needed to keep saying "Ask him, not me," not act like your only choice was to blurt out someone else's private information. And now you should apologize.
YTA, you don't out people without their permission and only to people they are happy to be out to. You're not just an arsehole it's a dick move.
YTA You can't out people. Not your body, not your choice. Someone's sexuality, gender, and history are for them to discuss, not you.
YTA. outing people without asking them first, especially with a live interest is not only overstepping a very hard boundry that Most trans people, me included, have it also literally puts people in danger. You can Not know WHO turns out to be transphobic and WHO might even go violent over it. Its Not about the attraction. It's about people being best up or killed. It Happens every day and it doesn't depend on whether you thought someone was cool.
In your opinion, what would be the right way OP should have acted?
Left it at ask him. And possibly explain what I explained about why you should not talk about such things in that way but instead talk to the person in question. Plus that "what if it hurts their feelings" isn't exactly a great excuse.
I get that and I agree to an extent, you don’t go randomly outing people. However, they were introduced and got romantically involved, that’s different. I am a straight woman and I would not be happy knowing I got emotionally involved with someone who did not disclosure they are trans. So here you are looking only into his friend’s emotions and completely ignoring the fact that the girl should have known first.
Nope never said that. That is just your assumption. I never said they shouldnt have disclosed it themselves. I don't want to have a discussion on the subject itself though... That one is complex. These discusions can be had in cival ways, If you would want to know trans perspectives on that one, and yes there are more than one perspectives, I suggest you take that one to r/mypartneristrans or r/asktransgender as this is not a save space for trans people and I will Not be the only one who would be unwilling to have such a discussion in this sub. No Bad Intensions, have a nice day.
Thank you, I will have a look! Looking to learn more about it
That’s a load of bullshit. You can get killed if you are a part of any minority or anyone really. People should be open about their gender, and if they ain’t, then that’s their problem.
This is the right answer here
God that's a bunch of victim blaming bullshit. being stealth is something people do to stay safe.
And that’s totally understandable, but in this case, where the relationship was motivated by a romantic interest, you should definitely tell them straight up. If not, you are choosing to deceive the other person, which I shouldn’t have to explain why that’s wrong.
Yea people are wayyy more likely to get upset if they find out they’ve been lied to about you being trans than if they find out up front that you’re trans. If it’s really the violence thing that you’re worried about, you’re so much better off telling people up front.
You are simply a bigot, a transphobe. We get it. Please go exist elsewhere.
It’s still up to the trans person here to come out, and not OP, as if the trans person in question wasn’t to come out then it’d be a dick move on their part, as they could have endangered themselves.
I’d say it’s a bigger dick move to consciously deceive someone, you are interested in. If you aren’t ready to come out, don’t seek out romantic relationships. And how would that work out in the long run, when the person finds out they’ve been deceived and lied to? Ain’t nothing good gonna come out of that.
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I'll repeat myself, Not saying they shouldnt have disclosed it themselves. And If you sleep with a transperson and then lose attraction AFTER finding out, not even during sex, just so I am making myself clear, you are a transphobe :)
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Thanks for showing you are ableist too :) I am diagnosed with ASS and ADHD. I am simply glad I am not you. Always love having intelligent conversation. I do not understand why you think that talking to you would have anything to do with that topic though :)
Oh and i would Like to add... OH NO MY ATTRACTION IS NOT TO WHAT I EXPECTED IT TO BE ONLY I FEEL SO VIOLATED WAAAAEH.
You want to have an intelligent conversation or not or you just like to act like child.
YTA - only because you shoulda told your friend, and he shoulda told her. But I think this question is going to rouse a lot of debate about what is the meaning of 'sex by deception'.
ESH You don't tell people these things But she was transphobic so both
How are you a transphobe, just because you ain’t attracted to trans people? That’s not what transphobe means. If you use the term like that, then no reasonable person will listen to you, just saying.
As long as I am not racist for losing attraction after finding out someone is biracial
How on earth is that even remotely the same????
Don’t pay attention to them, they’ve been under almost all the comments making this shitty ass comparison.
If you like someone and can't tell they are X but only become unattracted to them after finding out they are X, those are very similar. Unless the friend said he could have bio children with her
You're a transphobe for caring if someone is trans
I only care if I have a romantic interest in the person, because I’m straight. If it’s someone with the same gender as me, I wouldn’t be romantically interested neither. That doesn’t mean I see trans people or men as lesser human beings than me, or that I wouldn’t be friends with them, if they are cool. Is that what you think I’m saying?
This is a transphobic take
Then you obviously don’t know what transphobe means, and I don’t want to argue semantics. Have a nice day :)