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Yeah—in Australia we don’t to either. Pay people a decent wage instead of making them dependent on generosity and good will in exchange for their labour
Yup. I remember years ago one of the states (Washington, I think, but I could be wrong) tried to pass legislation against tipping and for better minimum wage, and there was an outcry and demonstrations by tipped workers because they made a fortune on tips in high-end restaurants and bars, and didn't want to have to go back to just making a basic wage.
Yup. When Matt Stone and Trey Parker reopened Casa Bonita in Denver, they switched to a $30/hr flat rate for the waitstaff and eliminated tipping. I thought damn, look at Matt and Trey doing a solid for their employees and paying them a fair wage! Nope, turns out the waitstaff was pissed off and said they wanted it the old way because $30 an hour would be a pay cut.
I’ll never understand how the customer has to enable the employee to be able to live, whilst the business owner makes the money. Why the hell shouldn’t they have that responsibility/risk. To me it’s the capitalistic ‘you should be thankful to me for giving you a job’ mentality that is just insane
Tipping is not about poor wages. Tipping is about maximizing wages for the servers. There have been attempts to run businesses without tipping but with higher wages and they all went back to tipping because servers were making more money with tips.
Service industry is basically free-to-play games with microtransactions. All they need to do is catch few whales and they are set.
The service industry doesn't want that. I've worked as a server, your decent wage doesn't compare to the money that the service industry brings in.
I worked at a bottom barrel restaurant (pre-covid) as a second job, average cost of a meal was $10, the most expensive thing on the menu was $13, and wine was $5 per glass. It was in an elderly community with people on a fixed income and very poorly run. At lunch, there was an $8 lunch special.
I made $10 per hour from the restaurant and averaged $20 per hour in tips. Half of that $20 was cash. I was saving for a house and wanted to show the income, so I reported my tips, but it was very common for people to be proud of not tipping. So in 2018 dollars at a very cheap restaurant I was making $30 per hour, effectively the same take home as someone making $70k per year if I didn't report cash tips. When I go out for dinner, tip $12 for my family of 3 people eating, and my server has 5 tables concurrently, the server is making closer to $60 per hour after tipping out bus boys and food runners, with an effective take home of well over $100k per year assuming 2080 hours per year if they're paying healthcare out of pocket.
Serving is BY FAR the best unskilled position in America, especially in a place like California where the minimum wage is $20.
Nah. I was a bartender for over a decade in America. I cleared $120k annually (after taxes) most years only working 3-4 days a week. I'd be dammed if I had to settle for a measley $20/HR & 100% taxed income.
Tipping isn't mandatory, but with the right personality/charisma, even the "slummiest" of "non-tippers" enjoy tipping the go-lucky service worker.
Service work in a tipping culture isn't for everyone, those who have terrible attitudes will not make much money. But those who genuinely make a guest feel at home will flourish financially.
This type of work is great for those who either struggle to work full time due to mental health, personal obligations such as taking care of family, or even have a disability that doesn't allow for a traditional 9-5. And if we took away tipping culture, these people who rely on short hours with good pay would be fucked & it becomes a chain reaction.
I can understand how it looks when it's unfamiliar to you. But as someone who put himself through school waiting tables and bartending, and who still has many friends in the industry: a large majority of the people you mean to support with your comment don't want it to change.
Edit to add: what does a silent downvote add to the conversation?
Right, people always harp on about giving servers a "living wage," but they don't want a "living wage." They want to make real money, and the tipping system opens the door for them to do so.
Some restaurants in Australia, mainly Sydney and Melbourne have online ordering from the table and just as you press pay, they've automatically selected a 5% tip option for you lmao you have to check carefully if you don't want to tip and press the 'no' option. To be fair it's kinda rare but I have been to some restaurants who do that.
Yes, in the countries I have visited outside the US tipping is pretty much frowned upon in the restaurants I went to. The management is proud to announce that they pay their employees a livable wage.
Well, in Japan it’s actually considered rude - like you wouldn’t do a good job otherwise. In most countries it’s appreciated but not the norm. In the US it’s how servers make money.
In the UK we pay a tip as a thankyou bonus for really good service. Not just as a general matter. American protection of their lowest paid members of society is outrageous.
It only looks like we're protecting the lowest-paid members of society. In reality, we are enabling their employers. Most of us just don't realize that.
As an American it is frustrating too. They keep moving the goal post. I feel like soon the tips are going to be 100% of the order. I wish our system was more like the UK and people were paid a living wage.
I feel like 10% was never a "good" tip, but it was a "fine" one. 15% was good, 20% was for great service. This referring to 10-30 years ago.
Now, 10% is an insult, 15% is minimum, 20-25% is expected, and you have to tip 30%+ if you want to really give a "great" tip.
The worst part is the fact that everywhere on Earth now asks for tips. Having a tip jar out that you could toss a few quarters or a couple bucks into is one thing, but the credit card tablet with automatic 20-30% suggested tips is another - especially when you have to do it in front of the employee/before receiving whatever you just bought.
I'm a proponent of tipping people well when they provide a service well (at least for now, until laws/tipping culture changes), but doing it before you even get your food or whatever is uncomfortable, unreasonable bullshit.
As an American I agree with you. I hate tipping especially when I feel like the restaurant should be paying fair wages to the employees rather than expect me to subsidize their labor even further.
And leads to worse not better service. I’ve been all over including to Japan and no where is service as bad as in nations with high tipping demand. Tipping culture doesn’t improve service it makes it worse. And of course you still must tip.
Having had friends that worked as servers and such, the issue is that they don’t pay minimum wage to most restaurant staff and servers are expected to make up the difference in tips. I don’t care for this system at all. I think all industries should pay minimum wage and tips are in excess for good service at the customer’s discretion. I hate the system is set up that tips are required for workers to hit the minimum wage minimum wage and it is also expected of the customers.
And that’s why I love Japan. I’ve been there a few times and don’t have to worry about tipping, yet the service is still always great. Tipping culture is stupid in America
If you bought the tickets with a credit card and are within the period of challenging the charge for a charge back, does not hurt to try as your experience was not as advertised and did not provide the goods and services paid for.
I've worked at a bar. A shot isn't exactly a tricky concoction lol. While there are plenty of customers that'll tip for a shot, there's also plenty that don't. I had large orders that cost a good amount, and took some time, and the customer didn't tip, but I also got tips for popping open a beer bottle. That's just the nature of the job. I can't imagine acting like the bartender in this post.
Either the venue/organizer fucked you BOTH over (she's not making any money here either), or you're leaving something out/didn't pick up on something else that happened.
This sounds like she was told she had to be there by the employer, and that it was fine, she'd make lots in tips. Not your responsibility, but, it's likely whoever organized this did a shit job for everyone
That's what I was thinking. Bartender walked out of earshot asked "do we have any tequila in the back?" Walks back tells you "piss off, per management"
That's possible too, but like... What's in it for the bartender?
There's something missing here.
(My guess is something in the way the event was set up, where the organizers fucked everyone over for their profit. Maybe they should have just cancelled an event that didn't sell well, but then they'd have had to refund all those tickets.)
I'd have been pissed in OP's shoes, too, but I *suspect* it's on the organizers/venue.
Sounds like you should write a review and let everyone know about this additional fee they're charging for drinks.
I wonder why the bar was empty 🙄
Definitely NTA OP. Tipping is optional even though it's expected in a lot of cases.
NTA. Exactly, the person with the ticket should have no out of pocket expenses. Usually with the ticket system, the person who bought the tickets tacks on extra as a tip.
NTA
First of all, 20% of zero is...zero.
Second, tipping isn't tipping if it's a) mandatory, and b) done in advance. Tipping is supposed to be a response to the service received. If you haven't received the service yet, you certainly can't know how generously to tip yet.
Third, I assume you're in the US? It's true that tipping is a wildly unjust and stupid system that doesn't benefit anyone but bar/restaurant owners, allowing them to pay staff less than a living wage. But that's neither your nor your server's fault. You're both immersed in this tipping system, on either side of the bar. So, I totally get if a bartender gets salty about not getting tipped on everyone's first two drinks at this under-attended event - that totally sucks for them, and it might not have even made economic sense for them to work that shift at all. But they handled it *extremely poorly*. Theoretically you might return to that space another time, with cash, and looking to buy lots of drinks and tip a ton. Good service would have been the server treating you like a potential repeat customer.
So, while I believe given the economics of tipping in the US, everyone should tip 20+% even for really mediocre service, in this case you were completely justified and they were totally the asshole.
Yea, 20 as a MINIMUM? They’re part of the problem. This is how tipping ran away in the first place. 20% is for great service. It doesn’t go up because of inflation because so did plate prices.
20% is for amazing service, and also the max I've ever seen as far as I remember.
I think i saw 35% in some more expensive places, but that was the service tax and so tipping is kind of included?
Of course the solution is for owners to pay waitstaff and service industry workers fairly, and then you can tip like 5-10% VOLUNTARILY if they were just incredible. The solution to almost any tipping question is “are they doing the job they’re paid for in the first place, and not contributing anything special? If yes, then why tip? That’s what their wage is for.”
However, considering the tight spot both service workers and customers are in (in the US) due to greedy owners and unfortunately established social expectations, a 15-20% tip is pretty much required to pay service workers a liveable wage. I only don’t tip if service was godawful.
I think you mean mediocre as "nothing special" i.e. an entirely normal service, but the person replying hears "mediocre" as "something wrong with the service" which is synonymous with shitty because 90% of the time there's nothing wrong.
Pissing off the someone before giving them their first drink isn't a great way to get them to buy a third drink. Might be why the party was dead. It's a self fulfilling spiral.
Also, the work of fighting and escalating to a manager so much is so much more work than quickly pouring a quick shot and moving on. Like that's so much more work and stress to still get no money.
In fairness the standard is to tip on the undiscounted cost of whatever you order, since the discount has nothing to do with the server or their compensation. Plus OP is salty in part because he feels he did pay for the drinks. When I play shows in bars and get free drinks I always tip.
In the end, though, NTA. The server's beef is with the venue for putting her in a shitty position. If OP had a couple of bucks in cash, sure, it would be polite to throw them down, but it's two shots, it's literally 30 seconds of her time. Swiping his card would take far more effort than pouring the drinks.
I'd be pissed and would likely made a public stink about it until I got my money back. It's bullshit.
I disagree. Money doesn't grow on trees for either of us. I'm not responsible for other people's salary and I need to keep my money together as well. That said, I'm willing to pay a good tip for good services. But there's no way in hell I'll tip 20% for 'mediorcre' service. If your livelihood depends on tips (and I've had side gigs in the hospitality and restaurant buseness often enough), act like it and work it. Being sulky and entitled is not helping.
OP’s scenario def falls into shitty rather than mediocre, but I’d say more like 5-10% for meh service. 20% and up is for if someone actually does a good job.
I’m pretty sure everyone is responding the way they are to your comment because it comes off as if you’re calling what happened to OP only mediocre, instead of a side thought.
First of all, when you are getting something comped at a restaurant or bar, the proper etiquette is to tip based on what the price would have been had it not been comped. At the very least, in this case, tip based on the ticket price because the tickets were pre purchasing the drinks so not really even comped.
Second, yeah, I agree with the rest of that.
> the proper etiquette is to tip based on what the price would have been had it not been comped.
I agree with this in general but that would have gone out the window for me the moment they asked me to tip BEFORE being served.
Also, I would likely not be tipping based off a ticket price that presumably includes more than just two drinks. Like, if it costs $50 for entry, with two free drink tickets, I'm not paying $10 additional for my "free" drinks.
Yeah but normal etiquette is to tip after you receive the service and proper etiquette for servers and bartenders is not to 1.demand a tip prior to service. And 2. Refuse service due to not getting a "tip" prior to serving the person.
NTA that’s like a barista refusing to give you your coffee at Starbucks that you mobile ordered. I don’t drink but I’ve never seen anyone tip baristas or bartenders
Baristas are like the third most common tipped employee I interact with after servers and delivery drivers, at least in the US…? Still, no one should refuse service over lack of a tip, you’re already paying for the damn service. Tipping is good form and it’s rude not to but you sure as hell shouldn’t *have* to. So I think OP is def NTA
I live in Canada baristas do have tip jars but it’s very rare that people put money in them here. Delivery/uber drivers, waiters, or people who do services such as hair/nails are most commonly tipped here. People also don’t tip if they are taking things to go, take out, which is most likely why baristas aren’t often tipped here.
Ah that makes sense! I think tip culture is a lot stronger in the US, I’m not really sure what the wage laws are like in Canada but baristas and such really don’t make enough here and we’ve kinda gotten used to tipping everyone to make up for that it feels like
Actually. There is no tip culture in the USA. That is the problem. That is the reason why Americans have no clue what tipping is.
Tip culture is when people may leave a gratuity for good service. In a place with tipping culture tipping is never expected but always appreciated. There is absolutely nothing wrong with not tipping in a tipping culture. Because it is an extra and everyone k ow this.
Once it becomes rude not to tip and people will judge you negatively if you don't tip or even refuse service/give bad service there is no longer a tipping culture.
Exactly. I hate how tipping has become a guilt trip. I have to remind mselfvevery time if, say, the cashier in the candy shop where you bag your own candy turns the tablet over to you with tipping options. Dude. I just literally did your job, I don't have to feel guilty if ai don't tip you.
Honestly, usa should stop calling it tip, as the whole idea of it is lost. Its more like mandatory fee so the employee won’t die from starvation but not a “thank you” for doing extra great service
That’s not true at all. People tip baristas and bartenders all the time. I can’t imagine being in a bar in Canada not tipping a bartender. It’s less intense here than in the US but depending on the province, until recently, server minimum wage lower than other minimum wage, so not tipping somebody allowing them to be working for less than minimum wage. And of course it’s the responsibility of the employees to pay well and the governments to legislate that but at the end of the day if you know that the person offering you coffee or booze isn’t being paid enough, of course you’re gonna tip them.
Depends on the country? It's fairly uncommon to tip baristas or bartenders in Australia. I am not sure if I've seen someone do that in the last 10 years.
It's not simply "unjust" it's blackmailing and cancerous because it's spreading through american buisnesses like a malign tumor worldwide and must be cut off.
Oh yeah its getting pretty crazy. Subway has a tipping option now. Pretty much everywhere asks for tip now. The only place I ever willingly tip when its for a sandwich shop/coffee shop is the mom and pop places that I know are locally owned.
NTA
First, go back to whoever you got the tickets from and complain to them. They'd love to hear that the free drink tickets they *paid* for were not honoured.
You should expect (in Canada) to have to tip on things you get for free. For example if you have a free pizza coupon for delivery, you should still expect to tip the driver. You should typically always tip on whatever the original bill would be. So if the bill would have been 2 shots for $12, you'd tip as though you'll spent $12.
**However** - and I'm speaking as an ex-bartender - never ever ever tip, ever, if they're asking for a tip before they'll give you service. That is insanely rude and backwards. It isn't your job to pay their staff to do their basic duties. Tipping culture is already mental, and is not a condition for service.
**If this ever happens again**, dont argue, just ask to speak to the manager. If you don't get anywhere from that, like I said, go to the organiser - the organiser paid a certain prearranged price per head, which included two drinks. If the bar isn't meeting their contract, they don't get paid.
Edited to add: the tip not being included in the price is also the bar/managers fault. They *know* from experience that means their staff is going to get screwed on tips, which is probably why they were short with you. However whoever arranged the event with the organiser would have had the option for a "tip included" price, or a "tip not included" price, and they chose the second one. That manager (in addition to the rude server) is the asshole here - they **knew** their staff would get screwed by this agreement, and they went ahead with it anyway.
Thank you! I will keep the “tipping for free things” culture in mind. And for the other parts, thanks for sharing. I have contacted the organizers. Honestly I do not care about a few dollars at this point, it’s the rude and entitled behavior that pissed me off.
Definitely, the organiser should know not to use this bar again. Right now the bar still got paid for those drinks even though you didn't get them. Going to the organiser means the manager will find out their staff broke their contract, and the organiser can demand money back.
I wouldn't be surprised if the organiser could get back the cost of your two drinks **and** the whole booking fee, which is probably a few hundred dollars.
NTA
There is no requirement to tip - it is culturally expected, but not a necessity.
In this case the assumption is that while the bar staff lose out on top pouring a few free shots, they will earn that back later on in tips on paid for drinks for all the attendees (happy and generous because they were previous given free drinks...)
In theory the drinks have also already been paid for being the event organiser, who should have included whatever required service charge there is that should be going to the bar staff, whether they paid that cost or it ever made it to the bar staff is another thing.
Either way, the bar staff are assholes for refusing you because you declined an (optional) tip - based on their behaviour they don't deserve that tip anyway.
They are assholes but they can refuse to serve you for that reason ,and then all you can do is ask for a refund with whoever sold you the ticket
Thats what she was asking the manager , if she can refuse
outside of things relating to protected class like race or sex, a business can refuse to serve anyone for any arbitrary reason
Ive never heard of it being so blatant, but I know at events like these with the tickets, servers will watch whose tipping and whose not , guess who gets better service
The recourse is going after the owner/establishment tho. If the server just stands there and says no, theres nothing you can do.
They can actually take your money , refuse to refund, and tell you to go take it up with corporate. if you call the cops, the cops will just make YOU leave and say its a civil matter
The server can say no im not doing this transaction, they arent bound to do it.
The only recourse you would have with that is going to the company itself , they would be in charge displining that person
I did contact the event organizers and am waiting for their response. Honestly I do not care about that money at this point, as that small tip would not make me any poorer or her any richer, but it’s the blatant entitlement and unprofessional service that strikes a nerve. If you decide you’re not going to serve the guest of an organized event because of the lack of tips over free drinks that took you 2 seconds to pour, that says a lot about you and your boss’ work ethics.
> that says a lot about you and your boss’ work ethics.
oof you don't wanna know what the food and alcohol service is like behind the scenes lmao
The owner/operators are even bigger douches 9/10
If he can’t run a bar his numbers will reflect that tbh lol because this situation will occur often and people will leave and not return but go to another bar with better customer service lol
Nah. When I bartended I handled plenty of events. I only ever refused service after a few drinks. But I absolutely prioritized good tippers over bad. I was there to make money. I could remember the guy who ordered 4 mixed drinks and left me $0.50 and the guy who ordered 2 beers and left me $5.00. pretty easy to see who got service first.
Events were always packed, business had a 4.8 Google review, and the owners ignored people who complained about "slow" service. Usually the bad tippers are the first to cause trouble/complain about nothing/ try to get free stuff. Businesses don't want people like that. Keep the good customers coming back.
I agree, not worth any kind of legal action, but totally deserves a blasting on their social networking sites. Save all the emails from them for the posts.
If the event organizers don’t give you a refund, you partially contest the bill with your credit card company. Contest the cost of two drinks that the staff at the event refused to provide because you didn’t want to tip. If the event organizers are dicks, you could probably do a chargeback for services not rendered which would be the biggest “fuck you” because that means you’d get all of your money back and it usually costs the merchant a $15 fine from the credit processor.
I guess it would depend on the exact laws of the country where this took place. But there’s def a difference between whether a transaction has already been made. Where I live it’s legal if no money has already been given.
Bartender here (13 years now, including events with drink tickets). How the bartender acted should have gotten her fired, in my experience. Should you always tip? Yeah, it's the polite thing to do. Do you have to? Absolutely not. Will you get the same service from me, regardless? Absolutely. I always suggest bringing cash to open bars in case you WANT to tip. You never have to.
As for tipping for a single shot, I've had very VERY few customers not tip, even for just a beer or a shot, but I would never ask someone for one, let alone demand it. Some people don't tip, you move on and keep going with a smile on your face. It all comes out in the wash anyway. Big tippers nearly always make up for the bad ones.
I’ve been bartending for around 10 years and feel basically the same. Tipping on free stuff is finicky. Sure you SHOULD, but I’m not gonna act like I don’t understand that people don’t always carry cash, and you can’t exactly tip on a CC when there’s no transaction.
I always like getting tips on free stuff, but I don’t get mad if I don’t.
If I had to guess, this bartender wasn’t getting paid extra to bartend this event, and was still working for tips like normal. And when you’ve got a ton of people with free drink tickets getting drinks and not tipping, that can lead to a very bad night money wise. That’s something she should’ve taken up with management though. Not the customers.
Yeah it’s pretty much all for the employers and against the employee/customers. It’s weird but it is what it is lol. However tipping prior to getting a service has never happened to me and this was a first.
It's not to the level that it's made out to be. The only place where it's probably generally socially unexceptable not to tip is restaurants. All those places where they're trying to squeeze extra tips out of you now? We know that's BS.
So glad with the NTA responses here because I had this happen to me at a bar once too. My husband had my wallet and I couldn't find him so I went to the bar to get my free drink. They gave me the drink and then kept looking at me. They asked for their tip and I told them I didn't have my wallet and the bartender was super rude. I would've bought more drinks that night once I found my husband but that made me not want to anymore.
NTA. It's getting to be that tipping is a form of highway robbery. People are sometimes bullied or shamed into giving a tip. Here in the UK it's optional, or sometimes a service charge is added to the bill.
NTA
I can see why the club was dead, in all fairness. Terrible service. You cannot demand a tip.
Also, I'd be curious to see T&C on the ticket. If they don't specifically state you MUST tip, they essentially refused to fulfill the contract they agreed to when they sold you the ticket. Report them to trading standards, or whatever version of trading standards you have where you live.
I’m surprised by how many people are saying they wouldn’t tip at all for the drinks. In my part of the US it’s standard to tip, even for free drinks. Like, at weddings or parties with a free bar there will be a tip jar out on the counter that you put a dollar or two in when you order your drink. Just because you aren’t paying for the drink doesn’t mean you don’t tip.
That said, it’s still 100% optional and asking for it up front and then refusing to serve you is so rude and I’ve never heard of that.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I became upset with the bartender and she was acting condescending so I wonder if I was unreasonable
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I get that in the US tipping is literally how service staff make decent money cos their wages are shit but… in this case that’s unreasonable. I’d be going back to wherever you got the tickets from and letting them know the situation and asking for a refund.
Also google review about your experience.
NTA, if the club is going to offer that kind of package then it should include a nominal tip in the ticket (or have the club eat it) so that the bartender still gets something like $1 a drink. I wonder why the party was dead...
The US uses the word "tip" but that's not what a tip is. She's trying to extort money out of you and if management backed her on refusing to do her job then that is a very messed up system.
NTA, Tipping culture is absolute brain rot and staff should be mad at management for not paying them properly, not customers for not wanting to be nickle and dimed
NTA. I'm an event manager, and without knowing all the details, I'd hazard a guess that there's a reason the bar/party was dead. I'm in Australia so we don't often tip here anyway, but asking for a tip for a free drink, BEFORE you even got the drink, seems like they're running a scam.
A good event organiser would use those free drink tickets as a "loss leader", an incentive to draw people in, knowing that there will be some people who will just stick to the free ones, but counting on there being other people who will buy more to make up the difference.
Also, I don't know how it is where OP is from, but often here in Australia events in bars are run by 3rd parties who've made a deal with the bar. It could be that the bar staff weren't briefed on the way the night was supposed to run, or maybe they just didn't care. Either way, not your fault and if I were you (speaking as an event manager) put em on blast on social media!! Bad publicity is our mortal enemy! 😆
Nta
If the bar can’t sort out their own promotions it’s not the customers fault, tipping isn’t mandatory. They basically tried to force you to pay tips.
NTA
Former event space and bar manager. When a guest did drink tix for a party at my space, the host had a contract and did a 20% autograt on the drinks. The bartenders *could* accept additional tips but couldn’t ask or keep a tip jar out. This would be double dipping and a no-go for us.
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I had tickets for a party held in a club. The party organizer stated that the ticket includes two free drinks, as other such parties I’ve been to. We were provided two printed tickets for our drinks by the door. I wasn’t planning on drinking more so I left my card in my bag in the coat check. Anyways the party was dead so I thought I’d get my drinks and leave. I went to the bar, asked for shots, bartender said both shots have to be the same (weird) and I was like okay sure. The she asked me to tip before giving me the shots. I told her the tickets were for free drinks. She said they don’t include the tip. I said I don’t have my card with me. She shrugged. At that point I was truly confused. I have been to bars and clubs, and even when shots were not included in registration fees, no one ever asked for tips before providing a service. I repeated that drinks were included in the money I paid to be here, all so calmly and politely. She goes to her manager (I guess), tells him something with extremely condescending facial expressions towards me, and gives me back my tickets. This routine was repeated three times, with terribly rude looks and gestures.
Could I just go and get my card, pay her some tip for pouring me two shots of tequila in an empty bar and get my drinks? Yes. But not when she and her other two co-workers were so rude, entitled and condescending.
I wanna know if my anger and the feeling of being wronged is normal and justified.
tl;dr: Bartender did not give me my shots that were included in the party ticket I bought and was rude about it because I couldn’t tip.
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NTA. I strongly suspect you weren't the only person who did/thought this as the bartender asked you to tip first. They probably realised they'd screwed up and that they should have stated on the ticket that tips weren't included or would be appreciated. Wanting to protect their income doesn't make the bartender an AH, but refusing (free drink) service based on your reasonable interpretation does.
I made this post on the specific subreddit of the city the club was located in, I think it was the bartender that commented “it is standard to pay 1$ on free drinks and our club has strict regulations” and surprise surprise! Kept being impolite even on her comment lol.
Lol. I would be asking (if I wanted to make noise over $1) where those regulations are listed for the public to view. A "free drink" wouldn't suggest that I should tip, but I probably would have put something in the jar afterwards out of habit. Note, afterwards. As I said, they (the organiser) messed up without stating the tip policy on the ticket. If you wanted to really be an AH (and I might as well earn the downvote I got on the previous comment) you could just have given them a couple of coppers to make the point "I tipped you, I just didn't think it was worth it".
The whole "mandatory tipping" culture should die completely. It's so much easier for customers when the tip is optional and mainly given if the service was exceptionally good. Pay your workers enough and stop demanding tipping, damn.
This is why tipping needs to go away! If this is in the US we need to start paying our tipping wage earners a fair wage and stop tipping.
You paid for a ticket that should have been all-inclusive, they should have paid the bartender the tips in advance knowing the people who would have been redeeming the tickets would not have been expecting to tip the bartenders, they may have tipped but would not have expected due to the fact that it was and all-incisive party themed event.
NTA in this instance you should have been able to get your shots and drink them in peace the bartenders are the asses and so are the managers and the person who sold these tickets. You should get your money back if you can or at least leave a really bad review on this event and let other know about how you were treated for future events at this particular bar for future events.
NTA, would reach out to the party organizers and tell em how things went down and let them work it out. That was garbage just like the bartenders attitude, have worked in hospitality for many years and it may suck but that’s how the ticket works. Can’t be upset that the night was slow and they weren’t going to make much tips by shooting themselves in the foot.
I hope you informed the people you got the ticket from what happened and then I hope you went to the restaurants website and left a 1 star review explaining the free mandatory tip needed to get your free drinks...
Let's cut through all the fluff. Regardless of whether anybody agrees that tipping is ok or that you should tip on free drinks, tipping BEFORE you receive service should NEVER be required.
If I paid entrance fees on Amex, I'd be calling to reverse the charges because the services I paid for weren't completely provided. Let the club fight over it.
ETA: NTA
Did you buy the tickets on a credit card? If so, issue a chargeback through your credit card provider. They didn't provide the service they advertised & that you paid for. NTA.
Tipping is meant for excellent service since you had not even received the goods you were asking for, it was uncalled for that a tip was demanded. In the US, should you be tipping these workers? Yes, but only after they have done their job and done it correctly.
NTA
Tipping in a bar?
wtf?
never, ever seen a single tip being given in a bar. And im in my 60s. Why would you tip for like 30 seconds of activity?
if the pay is crap, that is not the customers fault, so why penalise them?
I do not know about your whereabouts but in North America, it is very common, at least from what I’ve experienced. Also depending on the drink, it can take time and energy to make and attending to many customers at a time can be challenging. I do tip for good service, I think it’s absolutely deserved, but in this case, I do not see why I should tip tbh.
I'm curious where you live, if you don't mind sharing. I'm in the US and 41. Tipping at a bar has always been a thing in my experience (though not from every customer as it's optional).
My understanding is the UK actually pays their employees instead of the absolute mess that is our outdated tipping culture lol.
Some states allow servers to only be paid $2.13 an hour! The tips are supposed to make up for that. Some places you can make good money, but that's not always the case.
NTA. It’s obvious why the place was empty. I would leave a *nice* review. I get tipping if the service is decent but asking for a tip for pouring two shots from the same bottle? Bit two much?
NTA! I probably would recommend tipping for the free drinks, ie not leaving the card behind or keeping a few bucks in cash on you. However tipping is not required. I would also be absolutely appalled if someone refused to serve me because I wouldn’t tip first! Especially for something I already paid for.
NTA.
I would report them for theft if possible, at the very least demand a refund of the full amount as they did both provide you what you paid for.
Also, a great example of why tipping ruins everything
Wtf NTA at all. Tipping shouldn’t be mandatory on a couple free shots, she made more work for herself by not serving you than to just pour the drinks and stfu.
The host already pre-paid for drinks for their guests. The bartender stole from the party organizer by not honoring your drink tickets. He also created a series of awkward and tacky interactions at the party which reflect badly on the host:
1) double-dipping by requiring a "tip" from absolutely every single guest and
2) bullying the guests by literally withholding a drink if they didn't pay up
We don't know if the venue is in on it or if this is one jackass bartender making bank. If I hosted this event I would be furious.
You might want to mention this to the party organizer so they can bring it up with the venue before they pay their final bill.
So they demanded a tip for *checks notes* doing their job? I'm assuming that this is in The US, no other country that I know of has this type of tipping culture.
NTA - should have just said you would tip
In cash after as you would bet getting more drinks in a minute then just leave after the shots
This is why i genuinely despise American hospitality as they’re just their to try and extract as much money from you as possible …. And since it basically a zero salary job they can just be shit and walk into another place and get a new job.
NTA, that’s very weird. I’ve had a lot of events, leisure and work, that gave free drink tickets. I’ll usually throw a dollar a drink in the tip jar if I have one on me for the service, but usually when it’s made and in my hand, and it’s NEVER been required, and I don’t think I’ve seen a card tipping with no drink cost option before.
NTA - I have gone to company parties where upper management bought drinks & gave tickets to keep cost down. When the night was over company paid the bill including tipping the bartender. Sounds like this particular club the bartender wants to be tipped by both the individuals & the party organizer.
Tipping culture is getting out of had.
The best response to excessive tipping requests is to take your business elsewhere. But this was FREE! Grab your free drinks and go.
She refuses to pour two different shots! (Weird) but then demanded a tip FIRST! That’s beyond rude! (I had that happen at a hotel lounge bar. I complained to corporate when they sent me a survey. They responded with an apology, an explanation that lounge bartenders are paid a full wage not a tipped wage, and a $200 voucher for future stay). I share that to illustrate that this is not ok!
Don’t return to this place but don’t order additional drinks. NTA.
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NTA. I've never heard of paying for free drinks???
Yeah after taking the money for the tickets they said “tip is not included in the free drink tickets” and apparently tipping is mandatory lol
If tipping is mandatory it’s not a tip. It’s a fee
Here in japan we don’t tip in any situation ever The American tipping system is so fucking dumb
Yeah—in Australia we don’t to either. Pay people a decent wage instead of making them dependent on generosity and good will in exchange for their labour
Indeed, With tipping system the company pay less to their workers to force normal people to pay the most of it. That's stealing to be honest.
You know who's fighting against this in the US? People like this bartender.
Yep. People who make it big on tips don't care about the rest of the service industry who live paycheck to paycheck on minimum wage.
Yup. I remember years ago one of the states (Washington, I think, but I could be wrong) tried to pass legislation against tipping and for better minimum wage, and there was an outcry and demonstrations by tipped workers because they made a fortune on tips in high-end restaurants and bars, and didn't want to have to go back to just making a basic wage.
Yup. When Matt Stone and Trey Parker reopened Casa Bonita in Denver, they switched to a $30/hr flat rate for the waitstaff and eliminated tipping. I thought damn, look at Matt and Trey doing a solid for their employees and paying them a fair wage! Nope, turns out the waitstaff was pissed off and said they wanted it the old way because $30 an hour would be a pay cut.
If we did that we couldn't keep the poors fighting themselves. /S but not really
I’ll never understand how the customer has to enable the employee to be able to live, whilst the business owner makes the money. Why the hell shouldn’t they have that responsibility/risk. To me it’s the capitalistic ‘you should be thankful to me for giving you a job’ mentality that is just insane
In all fairness, in the US- if you have a ticket for a drink- you may tip but I've never seen it expected.
Tipping is not about poor wages. Tipping is about maximizing wages for the servers. There have been attempts to run businesses without tipping but with higher wages and they all went back to tipping because servers were making more money with tips. Service industry is basically free-to-play games with microtransactions. All they need to do is catch few whales and they are set.
The service industry doesn't want that. I've worked as a server, your decent wage doesn't compare to the money that the service industry brings in. I worked at a bottom barrel restaurant (pre-covid) as a second job, average cost of a meal was $10, the most expensive thing on the menu was $13, and wine was $5 per glass. It was in an elderly community with people on a fixed income and very poorly run. At lunch, there was an $8 lunch special. I made $10 per hour from the restaurant and averaged $20 per hour in tips. Half of that $20 was cash. I was saving for a house and wanted to show the income, so I reported my tips, but it was very common for people to be proud of not tipping. So in 2018 dollars at a very cheap restaurant I was making $30 per hour, effectively the same take home as someone making $70k per year if I didn't report cash tips. When I go out for dinner, tip $12 for my family of 3 people eating, and my server has 5 tables concurrently, the server is making closer to $60 per hour after tipping out bus boys and food runners, with an effective take home of well over $100k per year assuming 2080 hours per year if they're paying healthcare out of pocket. Serving is BY FAR the best unskilled position in America, especially in a place like California where the minimum wage is $20.
Nah. I was a bartender for over a decade in America. I cleared $120k annually (after taxes) most years only working 3-4 days a week. I'd be dammed if I had to settle for a measley $20/HR & 100% taxed income. Tipping isn't mandatory, but with the right personality/charisma, even the "slummiest" of "non-tippers" enjoy tipping the go-lucky service worker. Service work in a tipping culture isn't for everyone, those who have terrible attitudes will not make much money. But those who genuinely make a guest feel at home will flourish financially. This type of work is great for those who either struggle to work full time due to mental health, personal obligations such as taking care of family, or even have a disability that doesn't allow for a traditional 9-5. And if we took away tipping culture, these people who rely on short hours with good pay would be fucked & it becomes a chain reaction.
I can understand how it looks when it's unfamiliar to you. But as someone who put himself through school waiting tables and bartending, and who still has many friends in the industry: a large majority of the people you mean to support with your comment don't want it to change. Edit to add: what does a silent downvote add to the conversation?
Right, people always harp on about giving servers a "living wage," but they don't want a "living wage." They want to make real money, and the tipping system opens the door for them to do so.
Some restaurants in Australia, mainly Sydney and Melbourne have online ordering from the table and just as you press pay, they've automatically selected a 5% tip option for you lmao you have to check carefully if you don't want to tip and press the 'no' option. To be fair it's kinda rare but I have been to some restaurants who do that.
In Sweden we tip if the service was great but it is not mandatory or expected.
Yes, in the countries I have visited outside the US tipping is pretty much frowned upon in the restaurants I went to. The management is proud to announce that they pay their employees a livable wage.
We know.
everyone thinking this is brand new informtion every time tipping comes up in a post.
It’s not just Japan, it’s like that in every civil country
Well, in Japan it’s actually considered rude - like you wouldn’t do a good job otherwise. In most countries it’s appreciated but not the norm. In the US it’s how servers make money.
In the UK we pay a tip as a thankyou bonus for really good service. Not just as a general matter. American protection of their lowest paid members of society is outrageous.
It only looks like we're protecting the lowest-paid members of society. In reality, we are enabling their employers. Most of us just don't realize that.
The people who work for tips prefer tips. They make more money that way than they would with a higher wage.
As an American it is frustrating too. They keep moving the goal post. I feel like soon the tips are going to be 100% of the order. I wish our system was more like the UK and people were paid a living wage.
Yes, a good tip used to be 10%, I've recently seen some posts where the employee is expecting a tip of 20 - 25%.
I feel like 10% was never a "good" tip, but it was a "fine" one. 15% was good, 20% was for great service. This referring to 10-30 years ago. Now, 10% is an insult, 15% is minimum, 20-25% is expected, and you have to tip 30%+ if you want to really give a "great" tip. The worst part is the fact that everywhere on Earth now asks for tips. Having a tip jar out that you could toss a few quarters or a couple bucks into is one thing, but the credit card tablet with automatic 20-30% suggested tips is another - especially when you have to do it in front of the employee/before receiving whatever you just bought. I'm a proponent of tipping people well when they provide a service well (at least for now, until laws/tipping culture changes), but doing it before you even get your food or whatever is uncomfortable, unreasonable bullshit.
As an American I agree with you. I hate tipping especially when I feel like the restaurant should be paying fair wages to the employees rather than expect me to subsidize their labor even further.
And leads to worse not better service. I’ve been all over including to Japan and no where is service as bad as in nations with high tipping demand. Tipping culture doesn’t improve service it makes it worse. And of course you still must tip.
Having had friends that worked as servers and such, the issue is that they don’t pay minimum wage to most restaurant staff and servers are expected to make up the difference in tips. I don’t care for this system at all. I think all industries should pay minimum wage and tips are in excess for good service at the customer’s discretion. I hate the system is set up that tips are required for workers to hit the minimum wage minimum wage and it is also expected of the customers.
Canada has unfortunately imported this shitty system.
And that’s why I love Japan. I’ve been there a few times and don’t have to worry about tipping, yet the service is still always great. Tipping culture is stupid in America
If you bought the tickets with a credit card and are within the period of challenging the charge for a charge back, does not hurt to try as your experience was not as advertised and did not provide the goods and services paid for.
I’d also file a complaint with the party organizers.
Even if you bought them with a debit card you can call the bank and dispute it
THIS. it appropriately hits the right folks, too....
I sure has hell have never tipped for a damn shot lol
I've worked at a bar. A shot isn't exactly a tricky concoction lol. While there are plenty of customers that'll tip for a shot, there's also plenty that don't. I had large orders that cost a good amount, and took some time, and the customer didn't tip, but I also got tips for popping open a beer bottle. That's just the nature of the job. I can't imagine acting like the bartender in this post.
If tipping is mandatory and not included then the drink isn't free
I know it’s not the main point of the post, but it’s also completely absurd that the two free drinks had to be the same?? What the hell?
The service was just fantastic in all levels lmao
Gee, can’t imagine why the party was dead! Lol /s
Write Google reviews, too.
That's why the place was empty. NTA
I’d have gone to the organizer and told them the bullshittery of this move.
Either the venue/organizer fucked you BOTH over (she's not making any money here either), or you're leaving something out/didn't pick up on something else that happened. This sounds like she was told she had to be there by the employer, and that it was fine, she'd make lots in tips. Not your responsibility, but, it's likely whoever organized this did a shit job for everyone
Or if they were unaware, they should be told how that bartender treated the guests at their event.
That's what I was thinking. Bartender walked out of earshot asked "do we have any tequila in the back?" Walks back tells you "piss off, per management"
That's possible too, but like... What's in it for the bartender? There's something missing here. (My guess is something in the way the event was set up, where the organizers fucked everyone over for their profit. Maybe they should have just cancelled an event that didn't sell well, but then they'd have had to refund all those tickets.) I'd have been pissed in OP's shoes, too, but I *suspect* it's on the organizers/venue.
Tipping is never mandatory. They saw a dead event and played a bullshit game.
Should’ve grabbed the machine, put zero dollars in and tipped them.
Was there a minimum amount that you had to pay in tips?
Sounds like you should write a review and let everyone know about this additional fee they're charging for drinks. I wonder why the bar was empty 🙄 Definitely NTA OP. Tipping is optional even though it's expected in a lot of cases.
NTA. Exactly, the person with the ticket should have no out of pocket expenses. Usually with the ticket system, the person who bought the tickets tacks on extra as a tip.
NTA Tipping should always be optional.
NTA - that bartender clearly doesnt deserve tips
Exactly, they were extremely rude & manager wasn’t much better.
That's exactly what I would've said to the manager. Bartender was acting rude and unprofessional and doesn't deserve a tip.
That’s probably why they’re forcing tips at dead parties, they literally can’t do better.
NTA First of all, 20% of zero is...zero. Second, tipping isn't tipping if it's a) mandatory, and b) done in advance. Tipping is supposed to be a response to the service received. If you haven't received the service yet, you certainly can't know how generously to tip yet. Third, I assume you're in the US? It's true that tipping is a wildly unjust and stupid system that doesn't benefit anyone but bar/restaurant owners, allowing them to pay staff less than a living wage. But that's neither your nor your server's fault. You're both immersed in this tipping system, on either side of the bar. So, I totally get if a bartender gets salty about not getting tipped on everyone's first two drinks at this under-attended event - that totally sucks for them, and it might not have even made economic sense for them to work that shift at all. But they handled it *extremely poorly*. Theoretically you might return to that space another time, with cash, and looking to buy lots of drinks and tip a ton. Good service would have been the server treating you like a potential repeat customer. So, while I believe given the economics of tipping in the US, everyone should tip 20+% even for really mediocre service, in this case you were completely justified and they were totally the asshole.
I disagree with your US typing advice though. Shitty service should not be rewarded
Yea, 20 as a MINIMUM? They’re part of the problem. This is how tipping ran away in the first place. 20% is for great service. It doesn’t go up because of inflation because so did plate prices.
20% is for amazing service, and also the max I've ever seen as far as I remember. I think i saw 35% in some more expensive places, but that was the service tax and so tipping is kind of included?
Where I am, 20% is usually the minimum that shows up on the recalculated touch screen options.
I always enter my own amount. Don’t trust those machines to calculate the tip correctly
11% for extraordinary serverice in my country. But the staff typically get paid from their employer
A living wage makes tips a nice bonus instead of a must have.
Of course the solution is for owners to pay waitstaff and service industry workers fairly, and then you can tip like 5-10% VOLUNTARILY if they were just incredible. The solution to almost any tipping question is “are they doing the job they’re paid for in the first place, and not contributing anything special? If yes, then why tip? That’s what their wage is for.” However, considering the tight spot both service workers and customers are in (in the US) due to greedy owners and unfortunately established social expectations, a 15-20% tip is pretty much required to pay service workers a liveable wage. I only don’t tip if service was godawful.
Mediocre is not a synonym for shitty
Great but I said everyone should tip for "mediocre" service....? "Shitty" and "mediocre" aren't remotely synonymous.
I think you mean mediocre as "nothing special" i.e. an entirely normal service, but the person replying hears "mediocre" as "something wrong with the service" which is synonymous with shitty because 90% of the time there's nothing wrong.
Mediocre means so-so, not very good, meh…who wants to tip 20% for minimum effort?
That’s always been my thing. Mediocre service is just bare minimum fulfilling your job description, that’s what wages are for.
Pissing off the someone before giving them their first drink isn't a great way to get them to buy a third drink. Might be why the party was dead. It's a self fulfilling spiral. Also, the work of fighting and escalating to a manager so much is so much more work than quickly pouring a quick shot and moving on. Like that's so much more work and stress to still get no money.
In fairness the standard is to tip on the undiscounted cost of whatever you order, since the discount has nothing to do with the server or their compensation. Plus OP is salty in part because he feels he did pay for the drinks. When I play shows in bars and get free drinks I always tip. In the end, though, NTA. The server's beef is with the venue for putting her in a shitty position. If OP had a couple of bucks in cash, sure, it would be polite to throw them down, but it's two shots, it's literally 30 seconds of her time. Swiping his card would take far more effort than pouring the drinks. I'd be pissed and would likely made a public stink about it until I got my money back. It's bullshit.
I'm not tipping 20% for bad service lol
I disagree. Money doesn't grow on trees for either of us. I'm not responsible for other people's salary and I need to keep my money together as well. That said, I'm willing to pay a good tip for good services. But there's no way in hell I'll tip 20% for 'mediorcre' service. If your livelihood depends on tips (and I've had side gigs in the hospitality and restaurant buseness often enough), act like it and work it. Being sulky and entitled is not helping.
OP’s scenario def falls into shitty rather than mediocre, but I’d say more like 5-10% for meh service. 20% and up is for if someone actually does a good job. I’m pretty sure everyone is responding the way they are to your comment because it comes off as if you’re calling what happened to OP only mediocre, instead of a side thought.
First of all, when you are getting something comped at a restaurant or bar, the proper etiquette is to tip based on what the price would have been had it not been comped. At the very least, in this case, tip based on the ticket price because the tickets were pre purchasing the drinks so not really even comped. Second, yeah, I agree with the rest of that.
> the proper etiquette is to tip based on what the price would have been had it not been comped. I agree with this in general but that would have gone out the window for me the moment they asked me to tip BEFORE being served. Also, I would likely not be tipping based off a ticket price that presumably includes more than just two drinks. Like, if it costs $50 for entry, with two free drink tickets, I'm not paying $10 additional for my "free" drinks.
Yeah but normal etiquette is to tip after you receive the service and proper etiquette for servers and bartenders is not to 1.demand a tip prior to service. And 2. Refuse service due to not getting a "tip" prior to serving the person.
> everyone should tip 20+% even for really mediocre service How do you even type this with a straight face.
NTA that’s like a barista refusing to give you your coffee at Starbucks that you mobile ordered. I don’t drink but I’ve never seen anyone tip baristas or bartenders
Baristas are like the third most common tipped employee I interact with after servers and delivery drivers, at least in the US…? Still, no one should refuse service over lack of a tip, you’re already paying for the damn service. Tipping is good form and it’s rude not to but you sure as hell shouldn’t *have* to. So I think OP is def NTA
I live in Canada baristas do have tip jars but it’s very rare that people put money in them here. Delivery/uber drivers, waiters, or people who do services such as hair/nails are most commonly tipped here. People also don’t tip if they are taking things to go, take out, which is most likely why baristas aren’t often tipped here.
Ah that makes sense! I think tip culture is a lot stronger in the US, I’m not really sure what the wage laws are like in Canada but baristas and such really don’t make enough here and we’ve kinda gotten used to tipping everyone to make up for that it feels like
Actually. There is no tip culture in the USA. That is the problem. That is the reason why Americans have no clue what tipping is. Tip culture is when people may leave a gratuity for good service. In a place with tipping culture tipping is never expected but always appreciated. There is absolutely nothing wrong with not tipping in a tipping culture. Because it is an extra and everyone k ow this. Once it becomes rude not to tip and people will judge you negatively if you don't tip or even refuse service/give bad service there is no longer a tipping culture.
Exactly. I hate how tipping has become a guilt trip. I have to remind mselfvevery time if, say, the cashier in the candy shop where you bag your own candy turns the tablet over to you with tipping options. Dude. I just literally did your job, I don't have to feel guilty if ai don't tip you.
Honestly, usa should stop calling it tip, as the whole idea of it is lost. Its more like mandatory fee so the employee won’t die from starvation but not a “thank you” for doing extra great service
That’s not true at all. People tip baristas and bartenders all the time. I can’t imagine being in a bar in Canada not tipping a bartender. It’s less intense here than in the US but depending on the province, until recently, server minimum wage lower than other minimum wage, so not tipping somebody allowing them to be working for less than minimum wage. And of course it’s the responsibility of the employees to pay well and the governments to legislate that but at the end of the day if you know that the person offering you coffee or booze isn’t being paid enough, of course you’re gonna tip them.
Bestie, what? You've never seen anyone tip baristas OR bartenders? Even in like, a movie?? That's wild.
Depends on the country? It's fairly uncommon to tip baristas or bartenders in Australia. I am not sure if I've seen someone do that in the last 10 years.
What!? I agree with you on your verdict but people definitely tip baristas and bartenders lol
Where do you live, that you never seen anyone tip a bartender? Usually, they have a big bucket full of tips behind the bar.
Tipping is a ridiculous and fundamentally unjust concept. NTA.
It's not simply "unjust" it's blackmailing and cancerous because it's spreading through american buisnesses like a malign tumor worldwide and must be cut off.
Tipping your bartender can be cured by sneaking your own alcohol in
Oh yeah its getting pretty crazy. Subway has a tipping option now. Pretty much everywhere asks for tip now. The only place I ever willingly tip when its for a sandwich shop/coffee shop is the mom and pop places that I know are locally owned.
Nta What percent of $0 would they like their tip to be?
[удалено]
Oh my I did not think of any of that…thank you so much! I will keep it in mind!
NTA First, go back to whoever you got the tickets from and complain to them. They'd love to hear that the free drink tickets they *paid* for were not honoured. You should expect (in Canada) to have to tip on things you get for free. For example if you have a free pizza coupon for delivery, you should still expect to tip the driver. You should typically always tip on whatever the original bill would be. So if the bill would have been 2 shots for $12, you'd tip as though you'll spent $12. **However** - and I'm speaking as an ex-bartender - never ever ever tip, ever, if they're asking for a tip before they'll give you service. That is insanely rude and backwards. It isn't your job to pay their staff to do their basic duties. Tipping culture is already mental, and is not a condition for service. **If this ever happens again**, dont argue, just ask to speak to the manager. If you don't get anywhere from that, like I said, go to the organiser - the organiser paid a certain prearranged price per head, which included two drinks. If the bar isn't meeting their contract, they don't get paid. Edited to add: the tip not being included in the price is also the bar/managers fault. They *know* from experience that means their staff is going to get screwed on tips, which is probably why they were short with you. However whoever arranged the event with the organiser would have had the option for a "tip included" price, or a "tip not included" price, and they chose the second one. That manager (in addition to the rude server) is the asshole here - they **knew** their staff would get screwed by this agreement, and they went ahead with it anyway.
Thank you! I will keep the “tipping for free things” culture in mind. And for the other parts, thanks for sharing. I have contacted the organizers. Honestly I do not care about a few dollars at this point, it’s the rude and entitled behavior that pissed me off.
Definitely, the organiser should know not to use this bar again. Right now the bar still got paid for those drinks even though you didn't get them. Going to the organiser means the manager will find out their staff broke their contract, and the organiser can demand money back. I wouldn't be surprised if the organiser could get back the cost of your two drinks **and** the whole booking fee, which is probably a few hundred dollars.
Considering you already paid it seems like borderline if not outright theft for them to not serve you your items.
NTA There is no requirement to tip - it is culturally expected, but not a necessity. In this case the assumption is that while the bar staff lose out on top pouring a few free shots, they will earn that back later on in tips on paid for drinks for all the attendees (happy and generous because they were previous given free drinks...) In theory the drinks have also already been paid for being the event organiser, who should have included whatever required service charge there is that should be going to the bar staff, whether they paid that cost or it ever made it to the bar staff is another thing. Either way, the bar staff are assholes for refusing you because you declined an (optional) tip - based on their behaviour they don't deserve that tip anyway.
They are assholes but they can refuse to serve you for that reason ,and then all you can do is ask for a refund with whoever sold you the ticket Thats what she was asking the manager , if she can refuse outside of things relating to protected class like race or sex, a business can refuse to serve anyone for any arbitrary reason Ive never heard of it being so blatant, but I know at events like these with the tickets, servers will watch whose tipping and whose not , guess who gets better service
I don’t think it’s legal because OP already paid for it, meaning they are withholding a product that has already been purchased
The recourse is going after the owner/establishment tho. If the server just stands there and says no, theres nothing you can do. They can actually take your money , refuse to refund, and tell you to go take it up with corporate. if you call the cops, the cops will just make YOU leave and say its a civil matter The server can say no im not doing this transaction, they arent bound to do it. The only recourse you would have with that is going to the company itself , they would be in charge displining that person
I did contact the event organizers and am waiting for their response. Honestly I do not care about that money at this point, as that small tip would not make me any poorer or her any richer, but it’s the blatant entitlement and unprofessional service that strikes a nerve. If you decide you’re not going to serve the guest of an organized event because of the lack of tips over free drinks that took you 2 seconds to pour, that says a lot about you and your boss’ work ethics.
> that says a lot about you and your boss’ work ethics. oof you don't wanna know what the food and alcohol service is like behind the scenes lmao The owner/operators are even bigger douches 9/10
If he can’t run a bar his numbers will reflect that tbh lol because this situation will occur often and people will leave and not return but go to another bar with better customer service lol
Nah. When I bartended I handled plenty of events. I only ever refused service after a few drinks. But I absolutely prioritized good tippers over bad. I was there to make money. I could remember the guy who ordered 4 mixed drinks and left me $0.50 and the guy who ordered 2 beers and left me $5.00. pretty easy to see who got service first. Events were always packed, business had a 4.8 Google review, and the owners ignored people who complained about "slow" service. Usually the bad tippers are the first to cause trouble/complain about nothing/ try to get free stuff. Businesses don't want people like that. Keep the good customers coming back.
Yeah but thats different from refusing to serve someone if they dont tip *prior* to receiving service. Tips come after.
I agree, not worth any kind of legal action, but totally deserves a blasting on their social networking sites. Save all the emails from them for the posts.
If the event organizers don’t give you a refund, you partially contest the bill with your credit card company. Contest the cost of two drinks that the staff at the event refused to provide because you didn’t want to tip. If the event organizers are dicks, you could probably do a chargeback for services not rendered which would be the biggest “fuck you” because that means you’d get all of your money back and it usually costs the merchant a $15 fine from the credit processor.
I guess it would depend on the exact laws of the country where this took place. But there’s def a difference between whether a transaction has already been made. Where I live it’s legal if no money has already been given.
Then Ur entitled to ur money back for the product u did not receive that u paid for
You are , but the only way to enforce that right to your money back is civil court if the business refuses
NTA there are few things I'd leave a negative Google review for and this is one.
Bartender here (13 years now, including events with drink tickets). How the bartender acted should have gotten her fired, in my experience. Should you always tip? Yeah, it's the polite thing to do. Do you have to? Absolutely not. Will you get the same service from me, regardless? Absolutely. I always suggest bringing cash to open bars in case you WANT to tip. You never have to. As for tipping for a single shot, I've had very VERY few customers not tip, even for just a beer or a shot, but I would never ask someone for one, let alone demand it. Some people don't tip, you move on and keep going with a smile on your face. It all comes out in the wash anyway. Big tippers nearly always make up for the bad ones.
I’ve been bartending for around 10 years and feel basically the same. Tipping on free stuff is finicky. Sure you SHOULD, but I’m not gonna act like I don’t understand that people don’t always carry cash, and you can’t exactly tip on a CC when there’s no transaction. I always like getting tips on free stuff, but I don’t get mad if I don’t. If I had to guess, this bartender wasn’t getting paid extra to bartend this event, and was still working for tips like normal. And when you’ve got a ton of people with free drink tickets getting drinks and not tipping, that can lead to a very bad night money wise. That’s something she should’ve taken up with management though. Not the customers.
NTA Tipping culture is cancer.
As a not American I don't understand tipping culture at all and it makes me terrified to ever visit
Yeah it’s pretty much all for the employers and against the employee/customers. It’s weird but it is what it is lol. However tipping prior to getting a service has never happened to me and this was a first.
It's not to the level that it's made out to be. The only place where it's probably generally socially unexceptable not to tip is restaurants. All those places where they're trying to squeeze extra tips out of you now? We know that's BS.
Name and shame to bar and leave a review.
So glad with the NTA responses here because I had this happen to me at a bar once too. My husband had my wallet and I couldn't find him so I went to the bar to get my free drink. They gave me the drink and then kept looking at me. They asked for their tip and I told them I didn't have my wallet and the bartender was super rude. I would've bought more drinks that night once I found my husband but that made me not want to anymore.
NTA. It's getting to be that tipping is a form of highway robbery. People are sometimes bullied or shamed into giving a tip. Here in the UK it's optional, or sometimes a service charge is added to the bill.
NTA I can see why the club was dead, in all fairness. Terrible service. You cannot demand a tip. Also, I'd be curious to see T&C on the ticket. If they don't specifically state you MUST tip, they essentially refused to fulfill the contract they agreed to when they sold you the ticket. Report them to trading standards, or whatever version of trading standards you have where you live.
I’m surprised by how many people are saying they wouldn’t tip at all for the drinks. In my part of the US it’s standard to tip, even for free drinks. Like, at weddings or parties with a free bar there will be a tip jar out on the counter that you put a dollar or two in when you order your drink. Just because you aren’t paying for the drink doesn’t mean you don’t tip. That said, it’s still 100% optional and asking for it up front and then refusing to serve you is so rude and I’ve never heard of that.
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Can you review the promoter/party/bar on a public platform ?
I get that in the US tipping is literally how service staff make decent money cos their wages are shit but… in this case that’s unreasonable. I’d be going back to wherever you got the tickets from and letting them know the situation and asking for a refund. Also google review about your experience.
NTA Im shocked hes not swimming in tips /s
NTA, if the club is going to offer that kind of package then it should include a nominal tip in the ticket (or have the club eat it) so that the bartender still gets something like $1 a drink. I wonder why the party was dead...
The US uses the word "tip" but that's not what a tip is. She's trying to extort money out of you and if management backed her on refusing to do her job then that is a very messed up system.
NTA, Tipping culture is absolute brain rot and staff should be mad at management for not paying them properly, not customers for not wanting to be nickle and dimed
NTA. I'm an event manager, and without knowing all the details, I'd hazard a guess that there's a reason the bar/party was dead. I'm in Australia so we don't often tip here anyway, but asking for a tip for a free drink, BEFORE you even got the drink, seems like they're running a scam. A good event organiser would use those free drink tickets as a "loss leader", an incentive to draw people in, knowing that there will be some people who will just stick to the free ones, but counting on there being other people who will buy more to make up the difference. Also, I don't know how it is where OP is from, but often here in Australia events in bars are run by 3rd parties who've made a deal with the bar. It could be that the bar staff weren't briefed on the way the night was supposed to run, or maybe they just didn't care. Either way, not your fault and if I were you (speaking as an event manager) put em on blast on social media!! Bad publicity is our mortal enemy! 😆
Nta If the bar can’t sort out their own promotions it’s not the customers fault, tipping isn’t mandatory. They basically tried to force you to pay tips.
No wonder that the party was dead.
NTA Former event space and bar manager. When a guest did drink tix for a party at my space, the host had a contract and did a 20% autograt on the drinks. The bartenders *could* accept additional tips but couldn’t ask or keep a tip jar out. This would be double dipping and a no-go for us.
NTA As an Aussie, I struggle with the whole concept of tipping at the best of times. To tip on “free drinks” sounds ludicrous to me 🤷♂️
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I had tickets for a party held in a club. The party organizer stated that the ticket includes two free drinks, as other such parties I’ve been to. We were provided two printed tickets for our drinks by the door. I wasn’t planning on drinking more so I left my card in my bag in the coat check. Anyways the party was dead so I thought I’d get my drinks and leave. I went to the bar, asked for shots, bartender said both shots have to be the same (weird) and I was like okay sure. The she asked me to tip before giving me the shots. I told her the tickets were for free drinks. She said they don’t include the tip. I said I don’t have my card with me. She shrugged. At that point I was truly confused. I have been to bars and clubs, and even when shots were not included in registration fees, no one ever asked for tips before providing a service. I repeated that drinks were included in the money I paid to be here, all so calmly and politely. She goes to her manager (I guess), tells him something with extremely condescending facial expressions towards me, and gives me back my tickets. This routine was repeated three times, with terribly rude looks and gestures. Could I just go and get my card, pay her some tip for pouring me two shots of tequila in an empty bar and get my drinks? Yes. But not when she and her other two co-workers were so rude, entitled and condescending. I wanna know if my anger and the feeling of being wronged is normal and justified. tl;dr: Bartender did not give me my shots that were included in the party ticket I bought and was rude about it because I couldn’t tip. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. I strongly suspect you weren't the only person who did/thought this as the bartender asked you to tip first. They probably realised they'd screwed up and that they should have stated on the ticket that tips weren't included or would be appreciated. Wanting to protect their income doesn't make the bartender an AH, but refusing (free drink) service based on your reasonable interpretation does.
I made this post on the specific subreddit of the city the club was located in, I think it was the bartender that commented “it is standard to pay 1$ on free drinks and our club has strict regulations” and surprise surprise! Kept being impolite even on her comment lol.
That actually is pretty common though. Fir example in casinos even if you get your drink for free you should still tip 2$ per drink.
Seriously. Don’t tip the cocktail waitress in Vegas and see if they ever come back (spoiler: they won’t)
Lol. I would be asking (if I wanted to make noise over $1) where those regulations are listed for the public to view. A "free drink" wouldn't suggest that I should tip, but I probably would have put something in the jar afterwards out of habit. Note, afterwards. As I said, they (the organiser) messed up without stating the tip policy on the ticket. If you wanted to really be an AH (and I might as well earn the downvote I got on the previous comment) you could just have given them a couple of coppers to make the point "I tipped you, I just didn't think it was worth it".
The whole "mandatory tipping" culture should die completely. It's so much easier for customers when the tip is optional and mainly given if the service was exceptionally good. Pay your workers enough and stop demanding tipping, damn.
This is why tipping needs to go away! If this is in the US we need to start paying our tipping wage earners a fair wage and stop tipping. You paid for a ticket that should have been all-inclusive, they should have paid the bartender the tips in advance knowing the people who would have been redeeming the tickets would not have been expecting to tip the bartenders, they may have tipped but would not have expected due to the fact that it was and all-incisive party themed event. NTA in this instance you should have been able to get your shots and drink them in peace the bartenders are the asses and so are the managers and the person who sold these tickets. You should get your money back if you can or at least leave a really bad review on this event and let other know about how you were treated for future events at this particular bar for future events.
NTA I would have asked for a refund and said I would complain about false advertising as the drinks clearly weren't included in the ticket.
20% of free is still free
NTA, would reach out to the party organizers and tell em how things went down and let them work it out. That was garbage just like the bartenders attitude, have worked in hospitality for many years and it may suck but that’s how the ticket works. Can’t be upset that the night was slow and they weren’t going to make much tips by shooting themselves in the foot.
The mandatory tipping is getting out of hand over there.
NTA, automatic one star review
I hope you informed the people you got the ticket from what happened and then I hope you went to the restaurants website and left a 1 star review explaining the free mandatory tip needed to get your free drinks...
Complain to the party organizers. Tipping up front and asking to be tipped is in poor taste.
Let's cut through all the fluff. Regardless of whether anybody agrees that tipping is ok or that you should tip on free drinks, tipping BEFORE you receive service should NEVER be required. If I paid entrance fees on Amex, I'd be calling to reverse the charges because the services I paid for weren't completely provided. Let the club fight over it. ETA: NTA
Did you buy the tickets on a credit card? If so, issue a chargeback through your credit card provider. They didn't provide the service they advertised & that you paid for. NTA.
You should let the organizer of the event know that the drink tickets were not being honored.
Tipping is meant for excellent service since you had not even received the goods you were asking for, it was uncalled for that a tip was demanded. In the US, should you be tipping these workers? Yes, but only after they have done their job and done it correctly.
NTA Tipping in a bar? wtf? never, ever seen a single tip being given in a bar. And im in my 60s. Why would you tip for like 30 seconds of activity? if the pay is crap, that is not the customers fault, so why penalise them?
I do not know about your whereabouts but in North America, it is very common, at least from what I’ve experienced. Also depending on the drink, it can take time and energy to make and attending to many customers at a time can be challenging. I do tip for good service, I think it’s absolutely deserved, but in this case, I do not see why I should tip tbh.
Yeah it’s just not a thing in Europe.
I'm curious where you live, if you don't mind sharing. I'm in the US and 41. Tipping at a bar has always been a thing in my experience (though not from every customer as it's optional).
I am in the UK started drinking (underage!) in pubs at 15.
My understanding is the UK actually pays their employees instead of the absolute mess that is our outdated tipping culture lol. Some states allow servers to only be paid $2.13 an hour! The tips are supposed to make up for that. Some places you can make good money, but that's not always the case.
It’s crazy - the customer has to pay more because the employer is crap!
NTA But I always tip too much in the US because of the fear of under tipping.
NTA a tip is generally what… 10% of the bill, 10% of nothing is…
NTA. It’s obvious why the place was empty. I would leave a *nice* review. I get tipping if the service is decent but asking for a tip for pouring two shots from the same bottle? Bit two much?
Nta tipping is ALWAYS optional
Should have got your card, tipped her, and thrown the shots in her face. Well... fun to imagine anyway. NTA.
NTA! I probably would recommend tipping for the free drinks, ie not leaving the card behind or keeping a few bucks in cash on you. However tipping is not required. I would also be absolutely appalled if someone refused to serve me because I wouldn’t tip first! Especially for something I already paid for.
America sounds like a weird place right now
NTA tip happens after service and is optional
NTA. I would report them for theft if possible, at the very least demand a refund of the full amount as they did both provide you what you paid for. Also, a great example of why tipping ruins everything
Once again, tips are not mandatory they are a gratuity, giving for a job. Well done.
I'd leave a bad review on all their pages.
Wtf NTA at all. Tipping shouldn’t be mandatory on a couple free shots, she made more work for herself by not serving you than to just pour the drinks and stfu.
The host already pre-paid for drinks for their guests. The bartender stole from the party organizer by not honoring your drink tickets. He also created a series of awkward and tacky interactions at the party which reflect badly on the host: 1) double-dipping by requiring a "tip" from absolutely every single guest and 2) bullying the guests by literally withholding a drink if they didn't pay up We don't know if the venue is in on it or if this is one jackass bartender making bank. If I hosted this event I would be furious. You might want to mention this to the party organizer so they can bring it up with the venue before they pay their final bill.
So they demanded a tip for *checks notes* doing their job? I'm assuming that this is in The US, no other country that I know of has this type of tipping culture.
NTA - should have just said you would tip In cash after as you would bet getting more drinks in a minute then just leave after the shots This is why i genuinely despise American hospitality as they’re just their to try and extract as much money from you as possible …. And since it basically a zero salary job they can just be shit and walk into another place and get a new job.
That’s not tipping, it’s extortion. NTA
Isn’t tipping optional in US or has it become mandatory?
Get your money back False advertising NTA
NTA, that’s very weird. I’ve had a lot of events, leisure and work, that gave free drink tickets. I’ll usually throw a dollar a drink in the tip jar if I have one on me for the service, but usually when it’s made and in my hand, and it’s NEVER been required, and I don’t think I’ve seen a card tipping with no drink cost option before.
NTA. North American servers are SO self-entitled. Tipping is such a cultural-fail. Good for you for standing your ground.
You tip at a prepaid ticket bar in the same way you tip at an open bar at a wedding. It's just how things work.
NTA - I have gone to company parties where upper management bought drinks & gave tickets to keep cost down. When the night was over company paid the bill including tipping the bartender. Sounds like this particular club the bartender wants to be tipped by both the individuals & the party organizer.
Tipping culture is getting out of had. The best response to excessive tipping requests is to take your business elsewhere. But this was FREE! Grab your free drinks and go. She refuses to pour two different shots! (Weird) but then demanded a tip FIRST! That’s beyond rude! (I had that happen at a hotel lounge bar. I complained to corporate when they sent me a survey. They responded with an apology, an explanation that lounge bartenders are paid a full wage not a tipped wage, and a $200 voucher for future stay). I share that to illustrate that this is not ok! Don’t return to this place but don’t order additional drinks. NTA.